The less-deserving pro-independence website

Wings Over Scotland


The voice of tolerance

Posted on July 06, 2015 by

The website of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland says:

“The Protestant ethic is one of tolerance of other faiths and ideals. It is this tolerance and liberty that the Orange Order promotes and defends.”

So who’d like to see the Order tolerating and defending other people’s ideals in a double-page spread from the latest edition of their house journal, The Orange Torch?

orangetorch

Yeah, we thought you would.

Print Friendly

153 to “The voice of tolerance”

  1. Craig Macinnes says:

    I feel quite soiled now…what a bunch of intellectual giants they are!

  2. Callum says:

    they might have got the brain drain argument the wrong way round; taking into overall average IQ of remaining Scots.

  3. Michael says:

    Constitutional monarchy is a freedom we take for granted? Jeez

  4. blackhack says:

    What else would you expect from a bunch of illiterate morons who continually shout out their calling card “no Surrender” when most, If not all don’t know what they’re not prepared to surrender too

  5. Jim watson says:

    That is oxymoronic with perhaps the emphasis on the latter part of that word.

    It is hard to imagine their definition of intolerance as we enter the fruit themed parade season…

  6. Aidan says:

    The Torch is probably not intending to be funny but “Brain drain to England as no voters flee the abuse” plus “Referendum Victory Medal” ad ensures is hard to keep a straight face.

  7. Andy Nimmo says:

    Yep especially liked the piece on the evil Tartan Army.
    That would be these evil drunken degenerates then.:-

    https://tartanarmychildrenscharity.org.uk/main/the-news/headline-news/509-dublin-2015.html

  8. morgatron says:

    At least i now know where to go for my blinds!

  9. donald anderson says:

    Stupid people who believe in stupid myths always think everyone else is stupid.

    We didn’t know they were a tolerant organisation.

    Magna Carta is nnly “British” to them afore Britain was invented. Not only did it give more power to the Church and the barons, but they broke their promise to the English peasants immediately and lined the road from Runnymede to London with their heads stuck on poles.

    This was afore the Reformation, which Engerland never really had, but there were no Prodistents in these days. All Christians in these islands were Kafflicks.

    The LOL was formed to stop the alliance of the Catholics and Presbyterians in the Untied Irishmen who were Presbyterians and Masonic led.

    Their hero, Good Auld King Bully was an Anglo Dutch homosexual hunchback, who ad a black hoarse. White horses had not reached Europe from Arabia at that time.

    I could go on, but why upset them by challenging their wee brains?

  10. FiferJP says:

    Jesus min, I thought you were supposed to read that shit so we don’t have to?

  11. Wulls says:

    boggling level of acceptance and tolerance there.

  12. Well Read Ned says:

    I live in the centre of Glasgow and in the past 2 months it has been rarer for a weekend to pass without an Orange walk than it has for my Saturday morning to be uninterrupted by these complete buffoons. At the weekend passed I went to nip out for eggs, pulled the close door open and found a middle-aged man in a “Rangers” top urinating against it. Said man then proceeded to ask me what team I supported and when I replied “St. Mirren” he kept repeating that I was a “secret pape” and that “no true Protestant” would support anyone else but “Rangers”.

    I am truly sick of this now. It has been most weekends for months and the slime that infects Glasgow City Council…well, lets just say I cannot wait for the council elections. They are rubbing it in the nose of Yes voters. They know they are in for it and seem determined to punish Glasgow for voting Yes before they are papped out.

    I hope someone from G.C.C is reading this because the people that are voting in the cooncil elections won’t be getting bussed in from Larkhall like on Saturday. This really isn’t buying you as many votes as you think. Start shredding the paperwork because you lot are getting sacked with extreme prejudice.

  13. Helpmaboab says:

    I’m lucky. I’ve spent all of my life in parts of Scotland where the Orange Order has no presence.

    On the few occasions I’ve encountered them I’ve left with mixed feelings. Yes, they’re ugly. Xenophobic, racist, militarist, thuggish and unquestioningly deferential to the ruling elite. They retain the old sectarianism and a tribal hatred of all things Irish.

    But Orangemen are also comical and pathetic. Let them have their weird parades and fancy dress. Let them have their synthetic ‘heritage.’ Please allow them to keep publishing laughable, semi-literate documents like this.

    The Order is dying. Their only remaining role is to remind us why independence is so desirable. Oh, and after Labour has been hoofed out of local government they won’t have anyone left to protect them…

  14. scunner says:

    “Referendum Victory Medal” – Words fail me (other than rude ones).
    A Pyrrhic Victory Medal may be more accurate.

  15. Still Positive. says:

    @ Scunner:

    “A Pyrrhic Victory Medal may be more accurate.”

    Love it. 🙂

  16. Jock McDonnell says:

    Victory medals ? The latest in a long line of ‘battle’ honours that feed their delusional seige mentality.
    Grow up.

  17. Kevin Evans says:

    That’s just shite

  18. Adam says:

    “Durrrr *grunt* me no like SNP lady, SNP lady no stop make nasty *grunts, slobbers, drags knuckles*”

    The poor dears. I wonder when they’ll be self-aware enough to realise that they are universally despised outside their moronic little sect and poison absolutely everything they touch by association.

  19. jimnarlene says:

    Unbelievable!

  20. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Donald ( White horses had not reached Europe from Arabia at
    that time.) He could have bought ah wee pony.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY3wmWT-sb8.

  21. Capella says:

    Beribboned buffoons.

  22. Gillian_Ruglonian says:

    Sadly, not unexpected!

  23. The Man in the Jar says:

    Here’s to the gentleman in the black velvet waistcoat!

  24. JTM says:

    I read this and despair at the stupidity of the uneducated…..the days of division are over…

    As a person who was born at a time when this was acceptable and in a place it was encouraged l think these throwbacks do not understand that we Scots must now stand as one.

    When we do this ; THEN WE TELL OUR OPPRESSORS ONE THING……WE WANT FREEDOM ….but it is ours to earn not ask for.

  25. AndyC says:

    Watery farts springs to mind.
    Ban them and their pseudo paramilitary drunken knuckle dragging marches as soon as.

  26. Cadogan Enright says:

    If the Protestant ethic is indeed on of tolerance to other faiths and ideals as the OO suggested above, the OO is not Protestant

  27. Lanarkist says:

    Well, no caravanning for me in Wemyss Bay or Seton Sands just in case I end up holiday partying next door to this jolly shower!

    What a shame that the black out blinds couldn’t have been soundproofed and locked permanently in the closed position.

    Pretty grubby article lifted entirely from right wing MSM propaganda.

    Thanks, I think, for letting me see what the Unionist perspective promotes and for letting me realise that I don’t need blinds from that firm!

  28. Greannach says:

    Is the Orange Torch the latest from the D C Thomson stable of comics? I prefer the Dandy.

  29. walter scott says:

    The O.O. Is undoubtedly mental but I’ve read worse from hysterical unionists on the readers comments column in the “Scotman”

  30. Tackety Beets says:

    I grew up in the wilds o Eiberdeenshire an kint nithin aboot sectarianism.
    I think I was married with a couple o kids before I stumbled across it.
    Maybe I was naive and lived a sheltered life style but maybe I would be better back there.

    Reading “The Torch” makes me feel sick to the core.

  31. Malcolm says:

    I was brought up in a staunchly Protestant household, convinced of our superiority over others.
    It was a real eye opening moment when I realized Protestantism only existed because Henry VIII couldn’t keep his knob in his breeches.

  32. dakk says:

    The Torch is a lame attempt at trying to display intelligence and just comes across as desperate,angry,and puerile.

    If the KKK did in house journals,this is what it would read like.

  33. Jamie says:

    i never saw those Scottish passport holders before, they r pretty groovy am Gona buy 1. Cheers orange lodgers.

  34. Aos says:

    That reads like a 2 page spread from Viz! The medal is up there alongside their Life of Christ in Cats commemorative plate.

    But hey, those summer lodges sound nice …

  35. grahamlive says:

    I found one of these pamphlets on the seat of my train a while back, so I had a wee leaf through it. (The carriage was almost empty so I don’t think anyone saw me. Lol). I honestly thought that it was parodying the OO. It wasn’t until I was a page or two in that I realised it was being serious. What an utter joke of an organisation they are.

  36. Almannysbunnet says:

    After reading their “house journal” I feel contaminated. I’ve decided to cleanse my brain by supporting the national yes registry. It’s what has been missing to get the grassroots yes movement up and running again and fully prepared for indyref2.
    http://tinyurl.com/nz49zts
    You can watch the full video explaining their aims here http://tinyurl.com/owct7be

  37. Big Jock says:

    Usual I’ll informed clap trap.

    Someone tell them there was no such thing as British or UK when Magna Carta was written. It was an English pledge written in England for the English.

    Scotland was independent or certainly it was a separate kingdom at least. The taking of English doctrine and adopting it as British is common amongst the historically illiterate Brit Nats!

  38. thedogphilosopher says:

    What I still find strange about Orange Order musical parades is the complete lack of banjos.

    Deedle-deedle-dum-dum.

  39. Dr Jim says:

    One of them was tolerant of my daughters shop window on Saturday as he peacefully and calmly nutted it so hard it smashed
    As for the tolerant orange person no noticeable damage to what passed for his head was observed, however his Jimmy Cagney gait was much improved

    No arrest was made……now why ever not?

  40. mogabee says:

    Never mind the blinds morgatron…

    There be MONSTERS! OMFG

  41. Ken500 says:

    People in Scotland will just have to organise another Referendum as soon as possible for a YES vote. When the Polls start rising. The Carry on in Westminster is appalling. If people in Scotland don’t vote YES after that carry on. There is no tomorrow.

    The Orange Lodge want the Scottish economy ruined. The poverty in Glasgow is appalling while people die the Orange Lodge supports £Billions being spent on Trident weapons/illegal Wars, Illegal Tax evasion by £Millionaires and (foreign) multinationals and banking fraud in the City of London while people live in poverty and deprivation in Glasgow, leaving families in debt.

    GCC are the only Council in Scotland to allow such ffequent Orange Marches. A tiny minority who damage the economy of Glasgow centre and drive visitors away. Losing £Millions which could be better spent on the people of Glasgow. The cost of Policing this minority must run into wasted £Millions No other Council in Scotland allows these walks. If the Orange Lodge wants to hold disrupted Marches they should find an appropriate site out of the City Centre which does not bother others or prevent them going about their business. It is destructive bigotry and sectarianism and no responsible Council should support this nonsense.

  42. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Jesus min, I thought you were supposed to read that shit so we don’t have to?”

    Hey, that’s only two pages. What’s the point of me reading it if I don’t then give you the edited highlights?

    😀

  43. The Man in the Jar says:

    Regarding my above comment please allow me to explain.

    “To the gentleman in the black velvet waistcoat” is an old 18th century Jacobite toast. It celebrates the death of King Billy who died as a result of an accident when his horse stumbled on a mole hill.

    A toast I must confess that I have enjoyed on several occasions at Culloden House itself while dining in esteemed company.

    “To the King… over the water!”

  44. Big Jock says:

    Love the paragraph about being a welcoming open society. That will be the same lot that prevented the Irish prime minister coming to Carfin.

    The same lot that took over George Square and declared Scotland as a British enclave. The same scum that take over streets in July singing lovely songs about spilling Fenian blood. The same lot that protests at the papal visit in Edinburgh.

    The same lot that described former first Minister Salmond as a communist dictator. The same lot that hate the flag of Scotland so muc they burn it.

    The same lot that destroyed Manchester at a football match and are linked to Chelsea thugs. The same lot that only have two tunes. The sash and Simply The Best. The same lot with highland names that blot out any history or ancestory that might be Celtic in favour of Anglo Saxon which they are not.

    These people are the pond life of Scotland.

    People often ask me why I get so angry at Rangers fans and Orange Walks. My answer is always simple. When we tolerate bigotry we normalise the behaviour. Scotland normalised bigotry for 200 years or more. The good people have had enough of them. We will not be silenced.

  45. Ken500 says:

    Michelle Mone was resident in London years before the Referendum. She was resident in London before any so-called abuse. She moved to London after she separated from her husband to further her ‘career’. The claim she moved to London because of alleged ‘abuse’ is just a lie. She was domicile in London years before the Referendum.

  46. Ken500 says:

    Let’s folk know where not to go for blinds.

  47. G4jeepers says:

    Who could possibly believe such drivel?

  48. Ken500 says:

    The Torch could light a fire. Take That. They like Lulu.

  49. Big Jock says:

    Ken was Michelle Mone not domiciled in Patrick! Or am I thinking of the dominatrix of Partick..hey that’s another story.

  50. Tam Jardine says:

    Crazy nonsense… attacking the Tartan Army is just incredible. Presumably the orange guy finds the atmosphere at ibrox much more convivial? If only the TA could emulate the loyalists in George Square on the 19th September last year…

    Cudos to whoever came up with the Scottish Passport cover. Where can I get me one of them?

  51. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    A confession

    I used to paint Orange Lodge banners. There were three of us, all tims and known in the business as the holy trinity. We got £60 a banner – a lot of money in 1965.
    We stopped when one lodge wanted a “Lee Harvey Oswald Memorial” banner

  52. caz-m says:

    Classic video from the referendum of the Rangers fan who would move to Wales if Scotland became an Independent country. And tells us the Queen brings in twenty million a year.

    Short version.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZvEFjqVvgs

  53. Kenfitlike McKell says:

    Nasty orcs.

  54. Karmanaut says:

    Huge fucking relief they’re not on our side.
    That’s all I have to say.

  55. Mealer says:

    Bunch of weirdos if you ask me.

  56. call me dave says:

    Carmichael doing his job too late! But it looks good in the papers

    https://archive.is/qCmmU

  57. Marcia says:

    caz-m

    Bunch of weirdo’s in that video. Where are the 2 doctors when you need to section them.

  58. Valerie says:

    Just Wow!

    But cheers Rev. I know not to use City Blinds in my current decoration project 🙂

    I don’t know why, but I’m reminded of a FB post I shared today. Police had to arrest a man who tied lots of helium balloons to a lawn chair and went flying.

  59. K1 says:

    O/T Rev just tweeted this about 10 mins ago…

    It appears the Scotsman seem to know something we don’t…re Carmichael…

    https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/618196518915411968/photo/1

  60. Valerie says:

    Dave McEwan Hill at 12.14 – you win! Tears in my eyes, but I’ll try to better it.

    I knew a black cop, also a tim, who took great pride with his force in leading the Orange parade out into the town!

    God, I miss that guy, he was such fun.

  61. Geoff Bush says:

    The Orange Torch is clearly just an ironic publication, these funny guys are taking the mickey (OK – sorry to be offensive micks) and are just cybernat trolls in disguise. You can’t fool me you know.

  62. heedtracker says:

    Do they still roll up a trouser leg and have a funny hand shake? “While the Orange Order is known for its parades, its known for much more than that.” Understatement of the millennium that one.

    I never understood how they can still worship a union that’s wiped out Scotland’s once giant heavy industry. Maybe they could write about that, instead of cut n pasting posh twits and boobees in the Times and Torygraph.

  63. Mealer says:

    ken500
    Lots of companies advertise in a plethora of poisonous unionist rags eg Daily record,daily mail etc.Its hard to boycott them all.

  64. Marco McGinty says:

    Tolerance of other faiths an ideals? Really?

    Then why did the Orange Order arrange a pre-referendum march in Edinburgh, to march in protest against independence? Wasn’t that a lack of tolerance for other people’s ideals? And why did that very parade feature a large banner declaring No Popery? Surely a committed anti-Catholic message? Indeed, why does just about every Orange Order parade feature such banners alongside much sectarian singing and shouting?

    Methinks the Orange Order, alongside the vast majority of unionists, are just a shower of liars, incapable of telling any truths whatsoever.

    A quick Google search reveals much that could be described as being anti-Catholic, including this Channel 4 News item;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpGyCTNa0I4
    The imbecilic and dim-witted “reason” given by the bald-headed, bigoted, bawbag of a buffoon, for having such a statement on the banner, is really worth listening to (from about 1.07 into the piece).

  65. Tackety Beets says:

    DM Hill , in a strange way that clip cracks me up !

    One would get maer sense oot o H J Simpson …. Doh !

    ” Mmm the queen brings in £20 Mil ehhh “

  66. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Man in the jar
    For shame! And you brought up as a good prod and member of the life boys.

  67. Paul Larsen says:

    Picture this
    A ten year old boy (me 36 years ago) walking to catholic primary school having to go past the non denominational secondary school they are right next to each other and only have an eight foot wall separating them.

    In his mind, simple though it was, for queen and country a knuckle dragger four times the size of me from the other school spits in my face and hits me calling me a Fenian b@stard while also mentioned “politely” my olive Italian skin.

    Traumatic for a ten year old but at that age I was able to work out that not all The pupils in that school were like that and unlike Miss Mone and others who blame the SNP for everything I didn’t blame every protestant for the actions of one idiot.

    I’ve noticed knuckles about the town with his sash on still as fat as butter and now I wonder if he still has the same ethics and shows the same tolerance to other faiths as he did back in the seventies? or has he grown into an adult that could show compassion or fight for the liberties of the poor, sick or the disabled no matter what their religion? I doubt it, it seems that being royalists and religious nuts is all that matters to some people. Thankfully he’s in the minority and hopefully in a future Scotland the OO knuckle draggers will be out of sight and out of mind.

  68. Donald Anderson: “Their hero, Good Auld King Bully was an Anglo Dutch homosexual hunchback, who ad a black hoarse. White horses had not reached Europe from Arabia at that time.”

    He did however own a roan mare called Sorrell, which rather sportingly threw him to his death.

    Being Dutch, gay and hunched doesn’t make anyone a bad person.

    What made him a bad person was ordering the Glencoe massacre: an atrocious, premeditated act of British proto-state terrorism and genocide – which unionist historians later worked hard to portray as violence between savage and bloodthirsty hieland troglodytes.

    (the military massacres that they couldn’t whitewash, e.g. the one at Tranent, just got written out of history)

  69. Colin says:

    I must have lived a very sheltered life as it would never enter my mind to ask someone what religion they were never mind be upset if I didn’t like their answer.
    The OO, to me, are a bunch of moronic fools and I wonder when the last time they were in a church was.

  70. thedogphilosopher says:

    What I don’t get is why The Orangers don’t like dried flowers so much. No Pot Pourri they insist.

  71. Cherry says:

    excuse my ignorance but is the Orange Torch in any way related to the Green Lantern? Just asking 😉

  72. cearc says:

    Still nice to have some good news, if the No voters really are fleeing.

  73. Chic McGregor says:

    I was going to paraphrase the old gag “For every Scot who moves from Scotland to England, the average IQ of both countries increases.”
    However, in the case of No voters, I don’t think that works.

  74. Dal Riata says:

    Gordon Matheson and his Labour cohorts in Glasgow City Council (GCC) are an absolute disgrace, shameless and corrupt.

    The only surprise is that Matheson himself isn’t leading the racist, bigoted, sectarian Orange Ordure through the streets of Glasgow.

    May, 2012:

    “The leader of Glasgow City Council has told the Orange Order his city’s policy on actively reducing its numbers of parades was ‘wrong’ and that it will be revised now Labour is back in power.

    Prior to the recent local council election, Gordon Matheson, leader of Glasgow City Council, told a hustings of Orange Order members that he would ‘hold his hands up’ and admit a groundbreaking approach to reducing marches in the city was flawed.

    Councillor Matheson, whose Labour administration was returned last Friday with a large majority, said the city council should have done more to consult the Orange Order and he promised a senior councillor would oversee a review.”

    How sad it is that Glaswegians have to wait until 4 May, 2017 before they can rid their city of Matheson and his mafioso of crooks and criminals in GCC.

    “Though a council spokesman claims that ‘Mr Matheson committed to no more than is stated in the policy— that there will be an annual review, which is under way,’ Robert McLean, executive officer of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland, said the organisation was delighted at news of a council policy rethink on the matter.

    “Mr Matheson admitted the policy was wrong and we’re now hoping he will review the parades policy,” he said. “We do not tell our members who to vote for but as a unionist organisation they should be supporting a unionist candidate.” (all bolds mine)

    Gordon Matheson should be run out of town, never to darken Glasgow’s doors again.

    “Recent figures show more Orange marches are held in Scotland each year than in Northern Ireland.” Absolutely deplorable.

  75. Michael McCabe says:

    Roll on 2017 and the council elections. It will be Ironic Glasgow giving the OO there Marching Orders. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PrQQZuLru9s

  76. Al Dossary says:

    I always wondered exactly why nothing was ever made of the particular religious make up of the Labour party in central Scotland.

    The Grand Orange Lodge (2 or 3 GE’s ago) was telling it’s members that “a vote for the as SNP is a Catholic vote).

    Could it be (as has been suggested by earlier posters) that the Labour party is so desperate to cling on to their power that they are trying to replace their traditional voters with the Orange voters.

    Especially ironic as in my native North Lanarkshire I believe that at one point no less than 22 out of 24 local councillors were of a particular persuasion (revealed to me by my best mate some 30 years ago during our regular Thursday night boozy debates).

    Motherwell is the town to avoid this Saturday in Lanarkshire going by the signs warning of a “major event – expect delays July 11th”. The saving grace is that my in-laws should by now have realised that my youngest child at the age of 15 has no interest in going with them to this parade. Pity it has taken 20 years to realise that they will not be going to bigot fest.

  77. donald anderson says:

    Reply to Scunterbunnet
    “Donald Anderson: “Their hero, Good Auld King Bully was an Anglo Dutch homosexual hunchback, who had a black hoarse. White horses had not reached Europe from Arabia at that time.”
    He did however own a roan mare called Sorrell, which rather sportingly threw him to his death.
    Being Dutch, gay and hunched doesn’t make anyone a bad person.
    What made him a bad person was ordering the Glencoe massacre: an atrocious, premeditated act of British proto-state terrorism and genocide – which unionist historians later worked hard to portray as violence between savage and bloodthirsty hieland troglodytes.
    (the military massacres that they couldn’t whitewash, e.g. the one at Tranent, just got written out of history)”

    I wasn’t being judgemental; on King Billy’s sexuality, or disability, but, rather judgemental on the knuckle draggers red neck culture. When KB had the pox he found it difficult to get anyone to sleep with him and gave Peerages to those who did. Billy also ordered a fleet from Belfast to murder the clan Ranald and was responsible for the Darien Disaster. Glencoe was an act of revenge for Killiecrankie and was meant for all the Jacobite clans, MacDonnells of Keppoch, Glengarry, Camerons of Lochiel. etc. They were only stopped because of the outcry over Europe, mainly France. The Scottish Parliament was ordered to hold an Enquiry to decide who was responsible for the Slaughter Under Trust. They hadn’t quite got the hang of being British and reported back. “You were responsible”.

    He died as a result of a fall in Hyde Park when his horse stumbled on a molehill. Hence the Jacobite toast to the “Wee gentleman in the black velvet jaikit”. As Ronnie Anderson pointed out there was a Spanish and Austrian riding school of specialised white horse, but they were not common in Europe for anther centrury or so after Oor Wullie’s fall.

    The siege of Derry keys seized by the Apprentice Boys was not in fear of King James’ army but of the McDonnell’s of Antrim who were marching to Derry with vengeance for other atrocities; dressing Highland plaids, with Highland broadsword and targe, speaking Scots Gaelic and playing the great Highland bagpipe.

    The Pope in Rome supported Oor Wullie against the Jacobites. The reason being that there were two Popes at one time (How would the Silly Billies have coped with that?) One Pope was in Avignon, France and part of the great European power struggle, of which the Boyne was merely a sideshow. Scots clansmen, including Campbells, MacGregors. MacKenzie’s, etc fought in King James side for non religious reasons.

    Many “Wine and Grapes” would be surprised to learn that the LOL is despised much more by Proddy dogs, or non Catholics and that Labour still plays both ends to the middle and Lanarkshire Catholic Cooncillors and MPs have had meetings with the LOL against the SNP since Winnie Ewing got elected. Mick McMahon, Labour MSP, and his dochter, Siobhan, describe themselves as “ethnic” in the Scottish Parliament and feed Celtic bams and Green Brits with all sorts of scare stories, such as Kafflicks in Scotland are “treated like Arabs on the West Bank”. You will recall the Monklands scandal of some years ago and the nasty sectarian games played by Baroness Liddle, George Galloway, etc, in the Garscadden, Coatbridge by elections. Galloway bragged openly of this in his Daily Redcoat column. What can be more despicable then that crew and the LOL?

  78. donald anderson says:

    Reply to Paul Larsen
    Picture this
    A ten year old boy (me 36 years ago) walking to catholic primary school having to go past the non denominational secondary school they are right next to each other and only have an eight foot wall separating them.
    In his mind, simple though it was, for queen and country a knuckle dragger four times the size of me from the other school spits in my face and hits me calling me a Fenian b@stard while also mentioned “politely” my olive Italian skin.

    Traumatic for a ten year old but at that age I was able to work out that not all The pupils in that school were like that and unlike Miss Mone and others who blame the SNP for everything I didn’t blame every protestant for the actions of one idiot.

    I’ve noticed knuckles about the town with his sash on still as fat as butter and now I wonder if he still has the same ethics and shows the same tolerance to other faiths as he did back in the seventies? or has he grown into an adult that could show compassion or fight for the liberties of the poor, sick or the disabled no matter what their religion? I doubt it, it seems that being royalists and religious nuts is all that matters to some people. Thankfully he’s in the minority and hopefully in a future Scotland the OO knuckle draggers will be out of sight and out of mind.”

    Glad you said non denominal skule. Picture this
    An eight year old boy (me many more moons ago) walking to a non denominational primary school in Coocaddersm, Glesga, having to go past the Catholic secondary school they are right next to each other and only have an eight foot wall separating them. The skule to which I went was Dundas Vale and my wee brother and sister were at St Joe’s. We were all Partick Thistle supporters and fought with everybody anybody for non religious reasons. We didn’t discriminate in those days.That was the advantage of being in the only Normal School in Glesga. Dundas Vale School was originally a teacher training college modelled on the French Normale Ecosse.

    The Catholic Education Act was initiated by a Liberal Government to cause divisions in Scotland, not for any altruistic love of religious indoctrination.

  79. Meg says:

    Can’t imagine they have the copyright to use the images of Nicola Sturgeon or the Windsors. Wonder what the owners of the photos would think?

  80. The Man in the Jar says:

    How can the OO claim to “celebrate our history and culture” when in fact their history has next to nothing to do with Scotland.

    It is my understanding that the OO was imported from Belfast when the Clyde shipyards were short of skilled workers and to make up the shortage they recruited many protestants from Harland and Wolff in Belfast. Add that to a Central Scotland already resentful of Irish catholics “coming over here and taking all our jobs”. A recipe for disaster.

    I blame neither group however I do blame the Scottish pit owners and industrialists who chose to exploit the situation for their own greedy benefit. It wouldn’t surprise me if their descendants are still undermining Scotland for their own selfish reasons. Some of them from a nice comfy bench in the house of lords.

  81. Roll_On_2015 says:

    The Man in the Jar @ 05.25am

    It is my understanding that the OO was imported from Belfast when the Clyde shipyards were short of skilled workers and to make up the shortage they recruited many protestants from Harland and Wolff in Belfast

    Aye MitJ, it’s a pity they did not import these people, at least they have got more ‘get up and go’ with them than the OO wallies Scotland ended up with.
    .

  82. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    walter scott says:
    6 July, 2015 at 11:29 pm
    The O.O. Is undoubtedly mental but I’ve read worse from hysterical unionists on the readers comments column in the “Scotman”

    Same folk Wattie.

  83. Roll_On_2015 says:

    Conan_the_Librarian @ 05.43am

    Ya beat me to it!

  84. Darren Docherty says:

    I only went to one meeting, when my father (cue the flutes), bought me a pint for the first time. Tolerance? Not a word I would associate with the Lodge. Even as a naive 17 yr old, it was pretty obvious that the guys who appeared to be ‘alphas’, were spewing pure hate and resentment among those with their eyes really close together.

  85. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    @Darren

    I have to ask- have you still got the sash your father wore?

    I’ll get my bowler.

  86. Darren Docherty says:

    Conan_the_Librarian
    I don’t believe his new catholic wife would approve. He seemed to grow up a bit when he got his free bus pass

  87. jock mcdonnell says:

    @Paul Larsen
    It’s because they have nothing & no prospects, the oo gives them some sort of perverted position in their community, without them actually achieving anything in life.
    Sad.

  88. IvMoz says:

    The OO & sectarianism is one reason I’d advocate a separate Northern Scotland. I’m serious. I can’t stand the prods/tims crap. I’d rather not have independence than be saddled with this nonsense.

    Although a atheist now, when younger went to COS sunday school, BB’s etc. There was a catholic primary school in town. Did we treat each other differently? Did we hell. Away from school we mixed without even thinking about religion.

    When we get independence I hope something is done to rid a progressive Scotland of a central belt & more southern Scotland problem.

    Religion poisons everything.

  89. Ken500 says:

    The Catholic Education was brought in to educate children who otherwise would not have received an education. Different times. Historically the Churches played a major part in educating children. The monies were raised (collected) through the Church system. In Scotland elementary education was provided through the Churches. The Churches played a large part in relieving poverty and welfare. Alms etc. A force for good and evil. A force for good and bad. Different times. The basis for a universal tertiary education in Scotland. The first country in the world to have universal (church) tertiary education, which the majority pride themselves on.

  90. Macart says:

    Yeah, and orange fest was such a roaring success… oh wait. There was maybe a wee hint in the way people stayed away in their droves.

    Folk know what they stand for and its nothing like tolerance.

  91. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Living as I do, in Ayrshire, or as it is sometimes called: “Orange County”, I am somewhat blasé about the doings of our friends in the bowler hats and collarettes.

    I do get upset when they hold-up the traffic during the “Marching Season”, but, if they wish to parade their inadequacies for all and sundry to see, who am I to deny them their “fun”.

    They will, eventually, die out, but it will take generations, unfortunately. The two sides of Christianity, Roman Catholic and Protestant will not give-up their “divide and rule” policy any time soon.

    I had not, however, hitherto, heard of Orange Torch – sounds like just the sort of publication which ought to be featured in ‘Have I Got News For You’ in the “guest publication” slot.

    Heedtracker – you got your ludges mixed-up. Trouser legs rolled-up and funny handshakes is the Masons, the Orange Ludge is for those who fail the Masons’ entrance exam.

    Big Jock – the bretheren and sisteren (thanks Jonathan Watson), actually know four and a bit songs: God Save the Queen, Ra Sash, Nae Surrender, the Famine Song and Simply the Best.

    Man in the Jar – Many put the rise of the Orange Outang in Glasgow and the West of Scotland down to Harland and Woolf opening a yard in Govan.

  92. caz-m says:

    Do you think tomorrow’s budget will be discussed at their next Lodge meetings.

    Or are members of the Orange Lodge shielded from Osborne’s cuts.

    Lets see you all dancing about George Sq tomorrow night, celebrating the first true Tory Budget since the 1990s.

    Ya shower of clowns.

  93. Capella says:

    @ K1
    Carmichael secured an emergency vote in the HoC today to prevent EVEL being snuck in through standing orders. The MPs present agreed so the Speaker allowed it. They were discussing the Scotland Bill so most Unionists were absent.

  94. Ken500 says:

    If the farce at Westminster doesn’t put up SNP votes and Independence, nothing will. The carry on is unbelievable. A talking shop to delay and deny every person in Scotland their civil liberties, human rights and a right to democracy. Appalling. Lying criminal hypocrites. They are a disgrace.

  95. caz-m says:

    O/T

    Are BBC Radio Scotland banned from discussing the SNP, Westminster or the Scotland Bill?

    You can tell how the producers of GMS deliberately go out of their way to get the presenters to talk about anything OTHER than SNP MPs work at Westminster.

  96. Al Dossary says:

    Education in Scotland was provided by the church of whatever particular denomination in addition to some progressive employers.

    However, that was all supposed to change with the 1872 Education act whereby schooling would come under the remit of school boards – ie local council run bodies. All schools in theory were to be non-denominational but an opt-out was negotiated behind the scenes to keep the Roman Catholic schools separate. In essence the RC church would retain certain rights over the appointment of teachers, religious elements of education etc.

    Further this was cemented by the new act of 1918.

    Fast forward to present times and you have the ludicrous system where NLC have taken yo building “shared campus” schools where the pupils attend separate schools on the same campus but they share the facilities such as PE and restaurant.

    The mind boggles that even today this aberration of a system exists.

  97. Haggis Hunter says:

    STV doing its best to promote them on its facebook site. They remind me of the KKK, and the terms Orange and Fest are a total contradiction, like having a Nazi fest, as we remember all the Hitler saluting the Better Together Orange supporters did on the 19th of September.
    I wonder if the ‘giving’ of powers over abortion to Scotland is a Westminster scheme to stir up ‘religious’ sectarian hatred in Scotland?

  98. Ken500 says:

    Sectarianism and bigotry is only prevalent in the Central Belt because of GCC. Poverty and deprivation fuels minority sectarianism. It could have acted years ago to eradicate it sooner. In the rest of Scotland (even predominately Protestant areas) the (local) authorities have acted against it. Scotland is a secular country, the majority are non religious. The Churches are losing members faster than a sieve loses water.

  99. caz-m says:

    Another wee trick of Radio Scotland is to discuss things like the Scotland Bill very late on in their show, usually after 8.30am, when most listeners have arrived at their work and turned the radio off.

    I am so pissed off with BBC Scotland, that if I had a TV License I would cancel it. But that little bit of enjoyment in my life happened on 19th September last year.

    Stop paying for Westminster’s messengers of fear and terror.

  100. Ken500 says:

    Many Unionists politicians in Westminster are pompous, ignorant and arrogant. Major called them ‘bastards’. ‘Lying Bastards’ might have been more appropriate. They are shameless, are they on drink or drugs. Their behaviour is appalling. It is embarrassing to watch.

    Thanks to the marvellous performance of the SNP members in putting up with the malicious Pantomine in Westminster, which would try anyone’s patience. They have our sympathy.

  101. Stoker says:

    Darren Docherty wrote:
    “Tolerance? Not a word I would associate with the Lodge.”

    Nor me and i come from that sort of background with relatives all over Ayrshire and Lanarkshire (including Lark-Haw), Scotland’s worst 2 areas for this sort of crap.

    I want a Scotland free of all this ancient pish, no-matter what side it comes from but by-and-large the worst and most regular offenders are the intolerant knuckle-dragging Homepride Brigade.

    Glasgow is a City i love spending time in but have recently decided to enact a self imposed boycott of said city until they either completely stop these parades or restrict them to Bellahouston Park only.

    This utter pish of “it’s our heritage” is a recent thing and part of a huge re-branding and image improvement drive in the hope that they will be better accepted by the sensible majority.

    Well, let me tell you this, the KKK has “history and heritage” but it’s NEVER going to be acceptable.

    Feck off and march all day long up and down the Boyne, preferably wearing concrete waders!

  102. Clootie says:

    …the vanguard of the unionist cause.

    They want a union BUT not for everyone. Their union is selective and narrow. Bigots supported by the elite to help keep the general population divided.

  103. Ken500 says:

    Before 1872, (no universal sufferage) the Catholics had no equal rights under the Law and were totally discriminated under the Westminster (predominately Protestant) Law (act of Union shared Monarchy (control) which had to be Protestant), continuing in NI even up to the 1960’s in Belfast were Catholic were denied the vote in local elections. The Catholic Education Law was an attempt to give Catholics equality in Education (access) at that time. Putting it under ‘local authority’ control would not have been effective when local authorities were not elected by the locals.

  104. Ken500 says:

    ‘Shared Campus’ schools are an improvement in some areas.

  105. Robert Peffers says:

    @donald anderson says: 6 July, 2015 at 10:35 pm:

    “Magna Carta is nnly “British” to them afore Britain was invented.”

    I don’t like anything about them either, Donald, but You got that bit above very, very wrong and you are thus accepting their propaganda. “Britain”, was recognized as a geographic group of islands by the early European civilisations such as ancient Greece and Rome.

    Therefore, you have accepted the myth that Britain and “The United Kingdom of Great Britain”, are one and the same entity. In fact even, “Great Britain” is not Britain as the word, “Great”, is used in geography to indicate, “Greatest”, in the sense of biggest. Great Britain is thus the largest island in the British archipelago.

    That being so, everyone in the entire British archipelago are equally British and the people who are conflating Britain and the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland are the ones who are either ignorantly wrong or who, like the OO, propagate this common error as propaganda to make their case.

    BTW: The biggest offender, by a very large margin, is none other than, “The Prime Minister of the Great Britain & Northern Ireland Parliament”, who habitually describes himself as, “The British Prime Minister”, or, “The Prime Minister of Britain”.

  106. desimond says:

    @Dal Riata

    If Mathieson gets elected Labour Northern Branch Office Deputy he is guaranteed a List MSP position.

    Survival of the gittest!

  107. Luigi says:

    Actually, it’s very similar to what the BBC and Tory press spew out every week, only a bit less subtle 🙂

  108. Capella says:

    The debate on EVEL, which Carmichael secured, should be at the start of HoC business today i.e. 11.30 am. The Speaker said that it should be the first item.
    Watch it live here:
    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/263c5ce6-68e6-4419-8e29-2394f5f87cba

  109. Darren Docherty says:

    Stoker,
    My dad had seven sisters and only two brothers, so most of my cousins don’t share my surname. You should see the look on their faces when I point out how my ancestors were probably on the receiving end at The Boyne. Priceless

  110. De Valera says:

    Their hero is King William II (he was only William III of England guys), a monarch who never set foot in Scotland and was partly responsible for the failure of Darien among other things.

    As mentioned above, are these the same British patriots who wrecked Manchester a few years back? A strange lot indeed.

  111. Valerie says:

    stoker at 9.06, totally agree.

    I was brought up as RC, and even at a young age, I could tell that all the religious holier than thou behaviour, was like a cover for some of the worst behaviour towards each other.

    Don’t even start me about the shame of the Catholic church in covering paedos for centuries!

    I was forced to attend Mass, and stopped the minute I left home at 20. Forced to endure years of nagging from my mother, who eventually gave up. The hypocrisy of it all makes me sick.

    I’m a committed atheist, and I like to live and let live, but can’t help thinking that religion provides a good starting point for the world’s ills.

  112. Chitterinlicht says:

    I know we need more No voters onside but happy to pass on this lot.

    That said hats off to the establishment as it’s through this kind of structural and generational loyalty that they maintain their position.

  113. Capella says:

    Here’s the clip from yesterday’s debate where Carmichael asks for the EVEL debate. Scroll forward to 17:20 – 17:25.
    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/90829df4-44c6-4390-b741-1e7709a0a2ba

    The HoC had filled up by then, probably to hear George Osborne’s statement on Greece. Then most of the Tories left.
    When they vote on this issue those in favour stand and those against sit.

  114. Richard Taylor says:

    The only time anyone has challenged me to a fight was during an Orange March in Edinburgh. I was wandering around with my girlfriend, at about 2pm, broad daylight, when drunken March supporters asked me if I wanted a fight. Twice.

    A complete shower. I laughed as banners proclaiming, ” the Pride of Kilmarnock” etc were carried along the Royal Mile.

  115. donald anderson says:

    Irish surnames are quite common amongst Orange coloured persons.

    There are Dochertys from the MacGregors and Christies from around Loch Dochart area of Loch Lomond, Fintry, etc.

  116. Robert Peffers says:

    @Ken500 says: 6 July, 2015 at 11:52 pm:

    “People in Scotland will just have to organise another Referendum as soon as possible for a YES vote. When the Polls start rising. The Carry on in Westminster is appalling.”

    I nearly wet myself reading that, Ken500. I pictured Sid James in the role of PM and Kenneth Williams as Gideon Osborne but had a bit of a problem casting Hattie Jacques.

  117. peekay says:

    They’re dying out. I had the misfortune to be caught up at one of their wanders last week and one thing that was obvious was the age. I remember the days the average bandmember was 18-21’ish, now the majority looked in their late 30’s/40’s

  118. donald anderson says:

    Reply to The Man in the Jar

    Have you ever tried to have conversation on history or logic with a Silly Bill, or a conversation on Socialism, or Scottish history with a Labourite?

  119. donald anderson says:

    Robert Peffers
    ” ,,, I nearly wet myself reading that, Ken500. I pictured Sid James in the role of PM and Kenneth Williams as Gideon Osborne but had a bit of a problem casting Hattie Jacques.”

    Jackie Bailey?

  120. galamacennalath says:

    In Ireland, from the 17thC to the so distant past, both Catholics (through unequal status) and Protestants (by being outnumbered) had reason to be fearful for they own cultures and ways of life. ‘Defence’ groups were formed, arms were taken up, blood was spilled.

    I can only assume the OO in particular spread from Ulster to Scotland because Catholic immigrants from Ireland theatened jobs by offering cheaper labour.

    It’s easy to see how it all came about. Similar clashes of culture have happened in every corner of the globe in every society at some point, as far as I can seen. Sad, but true.

    In the past members of the OO in Scotland were probably god fearing kirk attending mainstream members of their communities. Rightly or wrongly, they had a culture and faith to stand up for against perceived threats.

    As for the OO in 21stC Scotland, I have very serious doubts if the drunken foul mouthed bigots you see behaving dreadfully on our streets are adherents of any Faith! I would be very surprised if those knuckle draggers see the inside of a Kirk from one year to the next.

    What or who do they believe they are ‘standing up for’ now?

    Well, they would say the Union. However, what has that to do with the ‘values’ and objectives they had in the past?

    Their fellow Scots cannot be seen as a threat to their communities, way of life, jobs, can we?

    While I understand the roots of it all, I cannot understand the manifestation in the current constitutional debate. That is, unless dark forces are stirring it!

  121. K1 says:

    Capella, yeah was aware of Carmichael’s debate question…it was the line in Rev’s tweet about his ‘rehabilitation’ that I was pointing out…in fact the very point of the latest article he has just posted.

  122. Hobbit says:

    I am an active evangelical Christian, and I find the Orange Order a total anachronistic embarrassment, quite apart from its views on Scottish independence. Fortunately, at my end of the M8, the eastern one, it is completely invisible.

  123. Capella says:

    And if you do watch the HoC clip I linked to above, hang on to approx 17:30 to hear Kirsty Blackman (SNP) tell the MPs that the Scotland Bill is listed as one of the England and Wales bills.

  124. chris kilby says:

    What did you expect? Everyone outside it knows the Orange Order’s about as tolerant as IS.

    LOL, indeed.

  125. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Like donald anderson, when I read Robert Peffers’ question about a role for Hattie Jacques in “Carry On Westminster”, I initially thought of Jackie Baillie. But, that will of course be in the follow-up: “Carry On Holyrood”.

    For COW (unfortunate use of initials there), Hattie could always don a suit and play Alistair Carmichael.

    Other parts:-

    Mr Speaker Becrow – Charles Hawtry
    Jacob Rees-Mogg – Bernard Bresslaw
    Mrs Becrow – Barbara Windsor
    Ian Murray – Jim Dale
    Denis Skinner – Kenneth Connor
    Ian Duncan Smith – Roy Kinnear

    Such a pity, most of the above-named actors are dead, whereas the MPs named are merely brain-dead.

  126. Petra says:

    ”The website of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland says: “The Protestant ethic is one of tolerance of other faiths and ideals. It is this tolerance and liberty that the Orange Order promotes and defends.”

    It could very well be that the Protestant ethic is one of tolerance because most of us (Protestants) do accept other faiths and ideals. However I for one am not one bit happy with this crowd of bitter, sectarian triumphalist bigots hiding under the umbrella of Protestantism per se.

    The reality is that they don’t tolerate other faiths at all such as Roman Catholicism as per their membership handbook which outlines that Roman Catholics are excluded from joining their ‘club’ and additionally witnessed on television when they march through places like Portadown in Ireland. ‘In a 2011 survey of Orangemen throughout Northern Ireland, 58% of Orangemen said they should be allowed to march through nationalist areas with no restrictions … (Wikipaedia)’.

    This group of people clearly contribute greatly to the continuation of sectarianism in Scotland and are costing the taxpayers millions of pounds between research being carried out and the cost of policing events. As the Police Scotland budget is being cut due to austerity measures this should be one of the first areas to go especially as research findings show that ‘Loyalist (for example Orange Order) and Irish republican marches are not widely supported by the Scottish public. Only 14% supported the right of loyalist organisations and 11% the right of republican organisations to march along public streets in Scotland.’

    http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0047/00470340.pdf

    On the subject of sectarianism Alex Salmond states that ‘’The Scottish Government are committed to the creation of a sectarian-free Scotland. By working with communities we will build a Scotland where people of all backgrounds can live and raise their families in peace free from sectarian bigotry and abuse. “…the song tells us for Scotland to flourish then ‘Let us be rid of those bigots and fools. Who will not let Scotland, live and let live.’

    Our new Scotland is built on the old custom of hospitality. We offer a hand that is open to all, whether they hail from England, Ireland, Pakistan or Poland. Modern Scotland is also built on equality. We will not tolerate sectarianism as a parasite in our national game of football or anywhere else in this society.”To help achieve this vision we have committed to spend £9 million to tackle sectarianism in the 2012/13 to 2014/15 financial years.’’

    http://www.gov.scot/Topics/archive/law-order/sectarianism-action-1

    Perceptions of Responsibility for Sectarianism:

    •Football is the most commonly mentioned factor people believe contributes to sectarianism in Scotland (88% mentioned it, and 55% thought it was the main factor).

    •The next most commonly mentioned contributory factors were loyalist (including Orange Order) marches (79% mentioned it, and 13% thought it the main factor) and Irish Republican marches (70% mentioned it, and 3% thought it the main factor).

    http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/02/5330/7

    There are a number of research studies / results to be found on the Scot Gov site. Just search for ‘Orange Order’. These outline the level of policing required at Marches, cost of policing marches, community impact, social attitude and so on.

    http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2005/01/20583/50713

    Level of policing at processions: …. ‘The County Grand Orange Lodge of Glasgow holds an annual parade to commemorate the Battle of the Boyne …. Through the course of the day some 1500 participants including 15 flute bands march through the streets of the south side of Glasgow. Supervision of the parade is arranged through a number of staff in the Operational Planning Unit and involves weeks of work in advance of the day. On the day itself some 236 officers are involved: six inspectors, 28 sergeants and 202 constables. These officers are from the Division and are diverted from other operational street duties. To ensure that sufficient resources are available for normal policing requirements, other officers have rest days cancelled … The West of Scotland Band Association organised a procession in Wishaw in March 2004. There were 425 officers involved on the day; one superintendent, two chief inspectors, 17 inspectors, 51 sergeants, 354 constables.

    ‘Discussions have taken place between Strathclyde Police and senior representatives of the Orange Order, the Bands Association and the Apprentice Boys of Derry … It was also agreed that the following actions should be considered as breaking the terms of the act.

    •Displaying the name or initials of any proscribed organisation whether on a legal flag or not, or on a musical instrument.

    •Including a band name in a flag, banner or musical instrument if that band name includes the name or initials of a proscribed organisation.

    •Changing a legal emblem or feature such as the ‘red hand’ in a way that shows support for a proscribed organisation, for example, adding wings would show support for the Red Hand Commando. This would also include those times when the band name is included in the emblem.

    The Orange Lodge, as the employers of bands during Orange Lodge parades, have placed contractual obligations on bands, including:

    •flags or banners are not to be carried wrapped up (furled); and

    •bands should not call out or sing anything which would suggest they are members of, or support, a proscribed organisation.

    To avoid any confrontation at a procession, organisers should discuss the above decisions and other related issues with the police at the precursory meeting.

    http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/02/3769/8

    Community Impact of Public Processions

    http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0047/00471813.pdf

    Scottish Social Attitudes Survey 2014: Public Attitudes to Sectarianism in Scotland

    http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/02/5330/8549

    Development Department Review of Marches and Parades: A Survey of Views Across Scotland.

    http://www.gov.scot/Resource/Doc/35596/0026949.pdf

    Scottish Social Attitudes Survey 2014: Public Attitudes to Sectarianism in Scotland

    http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/02/5330/8

    An Examination of the Evidence on Sectarianism in Scotland: 2015 Update

    http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/05/5191/3

  127. orri says:

    The essential tragedy of the Orange Order is in what they could be if they truly wanted to preserve the right of people to follow potestantism. They seek to substitute one for of authoritanism based more on an Anglica/Episcipolan creed rater than on the presbetarianism advocated by the Church of Scotland.

    Remember Darling’s snide comment to Salmond about considering he might be wrong. I’m fairly certain that was a paraphrase of a letter from the English army to that of Scotland before Cromwell invaded. Very clever reminding us to toe the line or we’ll be forced to.

    If the Orange Order was really about the right to worship as the wanted then they could still do all the marching they wanted and modernise their target “enemy” to include the rise of radical Islam. As it stands though the Magna Carta bit seems to ignore that, perhaps, the Scots representative was there to give advice on how we did things in Scotland rather than learn something we already knew about the place of royalty. The same we we’ll tell any monarch who thinks they have a divine right to rule to get to fuck. If anything it’s the OO are actually opposed to Scottish tradition.

    On another point the placement o the flags on that comemorative badge tells a story all of it’s own as far a precedence goes. NI is Englands right hand Scotland beneath and Wales seems to be an after thought.

  128. Petra says:

    @ orri at 10:39 ”If the Orange Order was really about the right to worship as the wanted then they could still do all the marching they wanted and modernise their target “enemy” to include the rise of radical Islam.”

    Good idea Orri. Instead of marching up and down the streets of Glasgow, banging on a drum and blowing a wee tin whistle, the ‘Soldiers of the Orange Order’ could be out in the streets of Iraq and Syria shouting ‘No Surrender’ at the top of their voices.

  129. Ken500 says:

    Religion is a personal choice (private) and should be tolerated in a democratic society in the public interest. A Human right. Not used as an excuse to paraded round the streets ‘look at me’ annoying people, causing offence or as an excuse for violence. (Other people’s human rights)

    @ Lallands Peat Worrier.

  130. Hamish100 says:

    What a disgrace.
    I used to take my holidays at Wemyss Bay and Largs. I hope the owners of the caravan park put a disclaimer on their advertising!
    As a mere Christian of the Presybyterian tradition and who attends Church not only as an elder but as a faithful member I cannot but think how far away my faith is from the magazine shown.
    May I suggest the producers read “The Life and Work” magazine (not entirely impartial in my view)or something similar and stop producing such a hate filled rag. Maybe they can have a prayer meeting in one of their chalets by the sea then visit Largs and have a wee ice cream and cool down.

  131. Jim says:

    I loved the unionist brain drain story. I can literally feel Scotland’s IQ rising as those idiots cross the border, with the corresponding fall in England’s IQ.
    I feel sorry for the poor people of England who’ll have to put up with them, but you know at least we won’t have to.
    Should encourage more of them to leave and go any where but here.

  132. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    donald anderson at 4.49

    You are referring to the Education (Scotland)Act of 1918 which generously afforded state support to Catholic and Episcopalian voluntary schools. This was initiated by Secretary of State Robert Munro and was not to “create divisions.” The divisions were already there – and how.
    In the earlier part of the 19th century for instance there were at one point 39 Catholics living in Glasgow and 43 anti Catholic Societies and an influx of Irish catholics meant there was no welcoming places for their children in the schools, encouraging Catholic communities to try to fund their own.

    Were we starting from now I doubt if denominational schools would be an important issues (though I defend the right of parents to democratically support religious schooling for their children. Religious schooling is not a cause of bigotry or sectarianism anywhere else and is common in most parts of the world).

    But we are not starting from now and there is historical context to this issue which we ignore at our peril.

    I could go on at great length about a community subjected to huge intolerance for the best part of a century in Scotland being held somehow responsible for it by some elements – but I wont. Another day perhaps.

  133. Fred says:

    The Famine is Over, they’ve had their fun but they’ve never really assimilated despite ther claimed Scottish ancestry, time to ship them back across the Sheugh.

    Interesting plan the British government had when the flag was to come down on Hong Kong, to re-settle five & a half million Chinese in Northern Ireland. 🙂

  134. Robert Peffers says:

    @Ken500 says: 7 July, 2015 at 7:40 am:

    “The Catholic Education was brought in to educate children who otherwise would not have received an education. Different times. Historically the Churches played a major part in educating children.”

    As usual popular history and truth are different things – here is most of the earlier history and the rest isn’t much better.

    The 1872 Education Act created non-denominational state schools, made education compulsory for those aged 5-13 and the legislated provided funds for those state schools. Previously charities, faith groups and private tutors had provided education. In 1872, the main agencies chosen to run state schools Scotland were the Presbyterian religious institutions. The act set up school boards instead of the old parish system.

    This made the 1872 Act different from the Education Act of 1870 in England and Wales that marked the true beginning of public schooling in the UK which involved Catholic schools. Certain religious denominations saw the 1872 Act as secularisation in the Scottish education system and the Presbyterian churches just assumed that after the Act the schools would, in reality, just remain Presbyterian schools and until fairly recently they were factually correct.

    Before the 1872 Act Catholic communities in Scotland had set up their own schools in response to real state discrimination against the Irish and Irish Catholic communities and thus an inability to teach openly Catholic values to children. This way the Catholic Church could provide education for poverty stricken people who were being excluded from public services in communities where they lived.

    Although, in the 1860s, The Argyll Commission found examples of Catholic children being educated in the parish schools. For example, in Kilsyth Catholic children had no RC Schools so they attended Kilsyth Primary School and had an RC Sunday School for R.E. this was the exception rather than the rule.

    Despite state encouragement the Catholic hierarchy didn’t join the state system in Scotland in 1872 as they knew state schools were just continuing the Presbyterian tardyons from their original foundation. That foundation being as Parish Schools run by the Church, or Free Church, of Scotland.

    In the late 19th Century there was mutual suspicion between the State and the Catholic Hierarchy and for good reason. Within living memory there was, “The Catholic Emancipation Act of 1829”, needed to repeel several formalised anti-Catholic mechanisms of State prejudice such as, “The Act of Uniformity”, “The Test Act”, and the, “Penal Laws (Education Act 1695”, “The Disarming Act 1695”, “Marriage Act 1697”, “Banishment Act 1697”, “Registration Act 1704”, “Popery Act 1704 & 1709”, “The Occasional Conformity Act 1711”, and, “The Disenfranchising Act 1728”. (and I quote),

    “Together this legislation required Catholics to abjure the temporal and spiritual authority of the Pope, renounce transubstantiation and financially support the Anglican Church in England”.

    The state slowly introduced reforms over the 19th Century that allowed Catholics freedom of worship, freedom of association and freedom of employment in the civil service.

    Now perhaps, “The Act of Settlement 1701”, remains the main legal provision still to discriminates against Roman Catholics by preventing the Royals from being contaminated by Roman Catholicism. The Episcopalian and Catholic Church both had worries about the secularisation in the 1872 Education Act and remained outwith the state system until the 1918 Education (Scotland) Act, (and that’s just a continuing story).

  135. Swiss Perspective says:

    They are right about the Protestant Ethic. The problem is, the Orangemen don’t do Protestant Ethic. They’re xenophobic bigots fuelled on a low IQ.

  136. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert Peffers says: 7 July, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    Arrrargh!

    That’s, ” … just continuing the Presbyterian, “Traditions”, NOT “tardyons”

    Blast that self correcting spool choker!

  137. gordoz says:

    A complete bunch of neolithic throwbacks. The vitriolic stench seeping thru the screen from that vehement guff turned the last o’ ma milk.

    Can we not purge such offensive, disruptive, Town centre blocking wasters once and for all from our combined futures ?

    Look what we did to Labour; smashed & obliterated (did anyone think that could happen)

    Peaceful foreign traditions are all well and good, but that lot jeezus – what of any value to Scotland is celebrated by such dangerous bigoted Unionist marching muppets.

    ( 7000 marchers in Glasgow / pfff Aye sure !)

  138. Andy Nimmop says:

    MAY I be permitted to provide the answer to that one

  139. AndyH says:

    It’s actually scary how much I’ve woken up to what actually goes on in this Country in the run up to and since the Referendum. We need to break away from this vile culture of Britishness as soon as humanly possible. Everything it represents is odious in the extreme.

    Down with the Onion!

  140. gordoz says:

    A must read in line with the above posts :

    Strange Bedfellows indeed / or are they in defence of the unholy Union.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/tomgallagher/

  141. Robert Peffers says:

    @Socrates MacSporran says: 7 July, 2015 at 8:01 am:

    ” … Man in the Jar – Many put the rise of the Orange Outang in Glasgow and the West of Scotland down to Harland and Woolf opening a yard in Govan.”

    Not true, Socrates. The facts predate that Harland & Woolfe thing: –

    It used to cost only 6 old pence to come to Scotland from Ireland but until the impact of the Irish famine there was little permanent immigration just mainly navvies and harvest workers. However, by, between 1841 and 1851, the Irish population of Scotland increased by 90%.

    Because of the famine victims poverty and poor health, the immigrants mostly settle around their point of disembarkation in the west coast area of Scotland. The counties nearest to Ireland, Wigtownshire and Kirkcudbrightshire, had large Irish populations by 1841 but the Potato Famine pushed those numbers to 16.5% of the population in the Wigtownshire.

    The Irish did make their way over to the east coast, for example to Dundee, where a large female Irish community was established. Yet Edinburgh had only a small Irish community of 6.5% of total population in 1851. The heavy industrial areas of the west of Scotland saw the biggest influx of Irish immigrants. Just under 29% of all Irish migrants settled in Glasgow while the smaller industrial towns in the West of Scotland had large Irish communities. Coatbridge in 1851, for example was 35.8% Irish.

    It often happened that mining, iron and steel works had developed a permanent company village outside the works and the immigrant workers were not made welcome there. The mine & works owners were employing the Irish at lower wages and the Scots workers resented them.

    Thus the immigrants built poor quality houses for themselves on the opposite side of the works or mines and many areas in the west have still two close villages or towns that are respectively Protestant & Catholic council controlled. Add to this the many UK government anti-Catholic laws, (as I’ve listed in another post), and there was always going to be government, religious and business sponsored sectarianism and racism blighting Scotland’s history.

  142. galamcennalath says:

    “The 15th International Congress of Celtic Studies will be held at the University of Glasgow from 13-17 July 2015.”

    The OO probably thing this is subversive!

  143. Andy-B says:

    Attacking the Tartan Army, how purelie is that, the O/O remind me of the Klu Klux Klan sometimes.

    Not only are they foul mouthed and dangerous,and a embarrassment to Scotland they also wear ridiculous outfits as well.

    http://oldmagazinearticles.com/magazine-articles/african-american_history/ku_klux_klan

  144. michael diamond says:

    I was going to comment, but my brain is still numb from trying to read that illiterate pish.are these creatures living on the same planet as me?.

  145. Schrödinger's cat says:

    I wonder how many of thes bands come from ni? A police block on the west coast ports ferries from Ireland, on Saturday mornings would cut the attendance at both football grounds and parades

  146. Gary says:

    NB their raison d’etre has never been tolerance of any other religion or of any sect of Christianity bar their own.

    Tribalism in Ireland done under the guise of imagined religious differences was picked up and used for political purposes many years after the battles ended.

    If sectarianism was truly treated as racism the Orange Order would be a proscribed organisation.

    Why, in the 21st century, do we tolerate this?

  147. James Westland says:

    Robert Peffers – Interesting stuff. There was also a time when the Church of Scotland was hopelessly sectarian. The 1923 pamphlet entitled “‘The Menace of the Irish race to our Scottish Nationality” is a case in point.

    There are also the anti-Catholic sentiments in the Westminster Confession of Faith which the CofS has since disowned:-

    “There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ: nor can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God.

    The protestant churches used to be very big on this type of Confession.

    However I suspect that average skinheaded knuckle dragging buckie-drenched OO thug wouldnt know what the Westminster Confession was even if it bit him in the nuts…

  148. A MacRitchie says:

    Almannybunnet@11.36

    Did the questionnaire thing on yes site you posted.

    A)The one word you required to describe
    Better Together?

    I wander what other people put for that would be interesting to see if they came up with the same word?

    B) A bit weird the personality questions wander why they wanted that?

  149. Martin says:

    I wonder what the tolerant lodge thinks of this:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-33436292

  150. Fred says:

    @ Martin, shocking stuff on the Rednecks. Until the Clyde Shipbuilding workers got themselves organised by using “Heavies”, their meetings were attacked by Orange thugs acting on behalf of the yard owners.

    These are working class Tories whose party is now defunct and their organisation heading the same way. Speed the day!



Comment - new users please read this page first for commenting rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use the live preview box. Include paragraph breaks or I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




↑ Top