Scottish independence referendum, plus jokes.

Wings Over Scotland


The Two-Heided Man

Posted on April 19, 2013 by

We think this might be that cross-border vortex at play again.

milithatch1

milithatch2

(This post is respectfully dedicated to the wonderful late Scottish folk singer, comedian and actual proper socialist Matt McGinn.)

90 to “The Two-Heided Man”

  1. Captain Caveman says:

    ‘Ed Miliband will cast himself in the same light as Margaret Thatcher later, by suggesting he is the man to lead a transformative change in British politics after the next general election’
     
    Yeah, right-o Ed. As a starting point though, it’d help if you had:
     
    (a) Any discernible political philosophy, conviction or soul
    (b) Any policies of your own (other than calling everyone else crap, but offering nothing besides vague platitudes in their place)
    (c) Any track record – in anything, not just politics
    (d) An ounce of charisma
     
    Pfft. What a bloody insult… like as if.

  2. Jiggsbro says:

    “Ed Miliband will cast himself in the same light as Margaret Thatcher”
     
    The rosy glow of hell fire?

  3. pmcrek says:

    Isn’t this essentially Ed’s third attempted relaunch now with nothing to show for it? They even packed his brother off to try and remove the ambiguity over which one was actually which. The train wreck that is the coalition aside, I still cant see Labour winning the next election with Ed, I’m sure the power brokers know this already.

  4. Jeannie says:

     
    Ed Milliband will cast himself in the same light as Margaret Thatcher
     
    I think he’s taking her death too badly – I can see he’s upset at her loss, but surely suttee is taking his dedication too far.

  5. Jamie Arriere says:

    Maybe they are right about the transformative change in British politics, but probably not what they intend.
     
    And if Miliband is the Two-Heided Man, does that make Labour the Dogs Party?
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB5jkTfPcDs

  6. beachthistle says:

    Looks like something for SLab’s new ” Truth Team (sic)’ to have to investigate/’fact-check’ and tell us which, if any, of the Ed Milibands we are to take seriously – the one in the UK press, or look-alike in the BT megaphones such as The Scotchman.
    When the Truth Team have done that, they could have a look at the new SLab website and ‘fact-check’ some of the text. Such as the wording “Scottish Labour Party” , e.g. in the About Us/History section  http://scottishlabour.org.uk/pages/history.
    If the ‘Truth’ Team were to have a wee look at the Electoral Commission’s list of registered political parties, they will find nothing listed between Scottish Green Party and Scottish National Party – it is an alphabetical list.  https://pefonline.electoralcommission.org.uk/Search/EntitySearch.aspx
     
     
     

     

  7. Mr Miliband: “And a narrow nationalism that says if it is in the interest of the SNP then it is OK to do cosy deals with Rupert Murdoch.”
     
    And there the Labour leader is, not a stone’s-throw from this very blog entry, on this very site, in living colour, cosying-up to Murdoch and assuring those Thatcher supporters who read the SUN, that “Red Ed” is dead.
     
    Would you buy a used car from this man?

  8. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “And if Miliband is the Two-Heided Man, does that make Labour the Dogs Party?”

    Nice :D

  9. Jeannie says:

    O/T  The BBC newsreader has just announced that sadly, so far, the pandas at Edinburgh Zoo have not yet mated – but then, cheerfully, they have today “explored each others’ enclosures”.  I’m not sure they’ve fully grasped the notion of foreplay……or have they?

  10. HandandShrimp says:

    Isn’t comparing Salmond to Thatcher just going to mess with the Hootsmon readership who have Eck pigeon holed as a reincarnation of Lenin?
    Also, a personal attack on Salmond? How desperately original of Ed….not. Labour are the ultimate one trick pony in Scotland.

  11. I was a bit confused over this.
     
    I’d read the BBC article that says he was going to “tell the Scottish Labour conference people need a new start, comparable to the change offered by Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s.” Then I popped into the kitchen here at work and saw the article on the front of the Scotsman saying that he was going to attack Eck over being too much like Thatcher.

    So, its another case of saying one thing to us here in Scotland, and the opposite to ‘Middle England’, isn’t it? But I can’t see how he can think its going to fly. Surely those for whom being ‘like Thatcher’ is a plus will already support the blue Tories, and the more sensible amongst us will be put off even more by the comparison?

  12. Yesitis says:

    Ed Miliband: automaton.
    If Ed Miliband had a role in a movie, he would be perfect as the politician who is first to have the nervous breakdown and freakout at the first sign of disaster.
     
    Wouldn`t trust him to look after goldfish.

  13. MajorBloodnok says:

    How does Labour think it can get away with this constant hypocrisy?  Do they really think we’re too stupid to notice?
     
    It would be an interesting exercise to go through what they said they’d do, or would support, or what they claimed they’d done in Scotland and compare it directly with what they were saying and doing in Westminster.
     
    I bet that on every substantive point or policy there would be a basic inconsistency at best and a clear pattern of deceit at worst. 

  14. YesYesYes says:

    I see that in the GMS interview this morning Joanne Lamont took umbrage when David Miller confused Ed Miliband with David Miliband. Miller told her it was an “easy mistake to make”, to which Lamont replied, “Well it’s not that easy a mistake”. On this, Lamont was surely right. David Miliband is the clever, good-looking one, Ed Miliband is the goofy, gormless one.

  15. Marcia says:

    Talking of the Sun, the Scottish Sun appears to have a leaked Labour report that will go down like a lead balloon:
    http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4894245/Leaked-report-reveals-Labours-tax-hike-plans.html
    apologies if it was posted elsewhere.

  16. Turnbull Drier says:

    Jiggsbro says:
    19 April, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    “Ed Miliband will cast himself in the same light as Margaret Thatcher”
     
    The rosy glow of hell fire?
     
    Surely she’ll have shut down most of the furnaces by now…

  17. annie says:

    Just tuned in briefly to Labour conference Anas Sarwar is sitting on stage with the ususal suspects listening to Ed Milliband’s speech and by the expression on his face you would think Ed is speaking in a foreign language he is looking around and wondering why everyone is clapping.  He must still be thinking about last nights debacle.

  18. Marcia says:

    Annie: He must still be thinking about last nights debacle.
    Maybe he is is listening to Johann’s BBC interview on his i-pod.

  19. scottish_skier says:

    Just tuned in briefly to Labour conference
    Has anyone turned up?

  20. Captain Caveman says:

    “Surely she’ll have shut down most of the furnaces by now…”
     
    Sadly for Labour, more UK industry/jobs were lost during their 13 years in power, as a percentage of GDP output, than was the case for Thatcher’s 18 year term. So the oft-repeated Labour jibe about how the Tories were supposedly ‘responsible for decimating all UK industrial jobs’ is extremely hypocritical.
     
    I’m the first to admit that Thatcher did far too little to conserve British engineering jobs, investment and expertise – I’m an engineer after all; I was on the shop floor in the early to mid 80s when it was all kicking off; I lost MY job as a result. But let’s be fair. The unavoidable truth of the matter is that, whilst the baby might well have been thrown out of the bathwater in many cases, the “bathwater” was already pretty irredeemably bad too. Unlike 1997, when all the reforms etc. had long since kicked in, and the industries that were left them were basically good, profitable, sound operations.
     
    These companies left the UK for the cheaper labour and corporation tax regimes of Eastern Europe, and then China. Labour barely lifted a finger to incentivise them not to do so; at least Thatcher DID try (and to some extent succeed – Nissan, Honda, Sony, Peugeot, Sharp etc.) to attract new inward industrial investment within the UK. She understood the need for a diverse economy (the “Great Car Economy” etc.) very much in stark contrast to Labour, which was too busy tearing down the previous banking regulatory regime and replacing it with worse-than-useless garbage constructs of its own (the FSA et al), believing that the Banks/City could just go on paying for everything like an ever burgeoning public sector out of thin air; that making oily bits etc. was for “backward” economies. What did they do to save MG Rover?
     
    In 1997, I used to have loads of industrial clients – most of my time was spent in large (albeit foreign-owned in the main) UK factories. I now have ONE such client in 2013 and they’re hanging on by their fingertips.
     
    For me, the stench of Labour’s disingenuous hypocrisy is all but unbearable.

    AS is at least trying to reverse this trend via Corporation Tax incentives, for the benefit of all in Scotland – good for him. Unsurprisingly, Labour are giving him stick over it, but as we’ve seen – what do they know.

  21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Just tuned in briefly to Labour conference”

    Where’s it being shown?

  22. EdinScot says:

    Freezing the council tax, abolishing tuition fees, introduced free prescriptions, reversing the privatisation of our hospitals, slashed business rates for small businesses and 25,000 modern apprenticeships each year that the SNP Scottish Government have introduced since coming to office.  Doesnt sound very Tory to me Ed.  In fact its all the things Labour should have been doing but theyre too busy out Thatchering Thatcher to hawk their sorry ass to a middle England audience to gain power for their own ends at Wastemonster and so the next lot of parasites can feed off the carcas of the poor. 
     
    Shame on You Ed and shame on your rotten party for selling out the people you purport to support.  Youre the desperate con man  on your day trip to Scotland offering cheap soundbites in place of real policies.  The SNP have stolen your parties thunder and done what you never had any intentions of doing.  Serving the people.  Your Unionist gravy train is coming to an end as you can only fool some of the people some of the time.  Scotland has changed direction on the runway and by the way, it feels pretty damn good to have another option.  Its coming yet for a that.

  23. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Where’s it being shown?”

    Ah, found it. Looked all over the BBC website yesterday and it only mentioned coverage on Saturday and Sunday.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22171317

  24. Linda's Back says:

    Christian Wright @1.37
    Do you, or anyone else have a link to the photo of Ed Miliband holding up the front page of The Sun, failing which, his quote about reading Labour’s policies first in The Sun ?

  25. Jeannie says:

    @Rev Stu
     
    Well, I’ve been watching it for a while and so far, it’s just an anti-SNP bitch-fest.  Still don’t know what any of their policies are.

  26. annie says:

    How  amateurish – Labour conference they set up a question/answer session with the audience and fail to put mics in place so they cannot hear the questions – answers all the same anyway SNP bad.

  27. HandandShrimp says:

    Where’s it being shown?
    Uzbekistan?
     
    To let people see things could be duller.

  28. Macart says:

    @Jeannie
     
    “Well, I’ve been watching it for a while and so far, it’s just an anti-SNP bitch-fest.  Still don’t know what any of their policies are.”
     
    Bizarrely I’m considering that as being good news. Their big devo proposals release timed to coincide with this conference has become a four star fubar overnight. A conference full of SNP accused speeches and a personal attack by Mr Ed should finish the job for Labour.
     
    No depth, no policies, no aspiration and no ideas. All right out there for the public to see ably led by the invisible man. Does anyone actually know what he stands for? As of last night and this morning voting NO has lost a fair deal of its shine now that we can see what’s not on offer. :)

  29. mato 21 says:

    Tuned in and saw someone who appeared to be asleep If those attending cannot stay awake it must be a right old waste of time so smartly left them to get on with it Have had enough hilarity for one day in any case

  30. Boorach says:

    Totall O/T but I’ve just received the Yes weekly newsmail and they seem to have had a wee bit of a surge in donations this week for some reason.
     
    Have received £16,000 from the good folk of Scotland. That’s actual donations not promisary notes Mr Darling….. real pound notes in the kitty!

  31. TYRAN says:

    Tuned in and greeted by a shot of half the seats empty and three old people looking bored. One nodding off. Tuned back out. PS: Massive saltire display on stage backdrop. 

  32. Jeannie says:

    Aye aye….I see the comedy “turn” has shown up……Ladies and Gentlemen, a big hand for Elaine Murray MSP.

  33. Jeannie says:

    @TYRAN
     
    You can come out now.  They’re away :)

  34. annie says:

    I got same email £16000 from hundreds of people around Scotland obviously reacting to the bitter together dodgy donorgate.

  35. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Do you, or anyone else have a link to the photo of Ed Miliband holding up the front page of The Sun, failing which, his quote about reading Labour’s policies first in The Sun ?”

    Um, you weren’t reading this morning, then?

  36. creag an tuirc says:

    @Captain Caveman
    Very interesting post. Now you just need to take that leap of faith in the Scottish people to rectify as many problems as possible. We can take back the power in 2014 :-)

  37. The Man in the Jar says:

    Seeing how “Honesty is out of the fashion” in Scottish Labour perhaps “Bingo Bella” can do a “Galowgate Calypso” back to her bunker where she can “Coorie Doon” to the “The Ballad of John McLean” and console herself that “Eternity Will Soon be Over”
    This could be Labours worse ever “Three Nights and a Sunday”
    Respect to Mat McGinn

  38. Jeannie says:

    I’m genuinely not trying to score any party political points here, especially as I’m not actually a member of any political party, but I watched the conference between around 3pm and 4pm and have to say in all honesty that it was one of the dullest,  most boring and uninspiring efforts I’ve witnessed in a long time.  I didn’t see Ed Milliband’s speech, so don’t know how that went.
     
    I also think it’s really embarrassing when they wheel out some unfortunate person – in this case, a college student – and get him to “speak from the heart” when it’s obvious he’s been coached in what to say.  That’s just exploitation of a young person at its worst.

  39. Jeannie says:

    Also, forgot to say, the voiceover said that Brian Taylor would give us a full update later….but to be honest, I really don’t know what he could update us on because there was lots of “We really need to do something about transport, housing, youth unemployment and blacklisting” but no indication of what they were actually proposing to do. 
     
    The delegates just looked bored out of their minds to me.

  40. Jamie Arriere says:

    From all accounts, it sounds like the Labour Conference is all just one ‘Magic Shadow Show’……and dare I ask who’s the ‘Big Effen Bee’….or is there more than one?  :-)

  41. wullie says:

    Did they bring ony beads wi thum fur ra natives in at

  42. Blair says:

    Nice one, Man in the Jar! Off to dig out some McGinn of Calton on the back of that!

  43. dmw42 says:

    EdinScot “Doesnt sound very Tory to me Ed. In fact its all the things Labour should have been doing but theyre too busy out Thatchering Thatcher
     
    There’s the rub. By moving to the right (and forcing Tories further right), Labour created a gaping hole on their left flank and the SNP stepped in. Labour cannot now move left or they’ll lose Middle England in droves
    In effect, the SNP used New Labour’s strategy against SLab and, as SLab attempt to gain back some leftfield ground in Scotland, there are fractious divisions opening between MPs and MSPs.
     
    I do love a good ‘plot’.

  44. Captain Caveman says:

    @creag an tuirc 
    Many thanks, kind of you to say. :)
    Actually my opposition (which is very much a prima facie work-in-progress) stems from a number of things at present, ranging from the purely sentimental (I love Scotland and don’t want to lose it), the selfish (the hapless non-London UK badly needs Scotland’s natural wealth), the pragmatic (I genuinely do not believe that an independent Scotland would actually *be* independent, even compared to the present or most certainly DevoMax) and the emotional (don’t split up a good team). But rest assured that none of this has anything to do with any lack of faith on my part for Scotland or its people, quite the reverse. My main concern  is actually from third parties such as the EU and those powerful states within it who clearly have a vested interest for true Scottish independence not to prosper, I think to the quite possibly unwitting detriment of the Scottish people?
     
    As I say, I won’t derail this thread with my current WIP (i.e. half-baked) thoughts on the matter. Perhaps, as these crystalise over time and as I gain further knowledge, and assuming it is acceptable, I may say some more substantive stuff in the future but right now I’m simply not ready or prepared. I need to know much more than I presently do; one of the reasons I’m here.

  45. Davy says:

    Just a little bit off topic, with Lamonts devolution commission saying we “maybe” could  control of our own income tax but not our oil & gas revenues as they are to volatile for us to control, I wonder if she has had a look at the top headline in todays P&J, the bit that says “40 PAGES of OIL & GAS JOBS”.
     
    Guess which leg has got the bells on ???????? 
     
    Vote Yes, Vote Scotland.
    Saor Alba.
     

  46. muttley79 says:

    @major
     
    How does Labour think it can get away with this constant hypocrisy?  Do they really think we’re too stupid to notice?
     
    Answers to both questions is they think Scottish voters are stupid.  After all, they plainly do not think Scotland can run its own affairs.  For all their denials they always return to the too wee, too poor, too stupid argument.  From this position they believe that Scottish voters will not notice their different approaches to Scotland and England. Lamont does the same thing with oil revenues. Scotland should not have control over them because they are supposedly to volatile, while it is natural for the UK state to benefit from them, and of course nothing is said about their volatilty in this context. 

  47. annie says:

    Just watched Brian Taylor / Joanne Lamont in just about every answer she said “we must have that debate” or  ” we must wait for that report” .  She also thinks everyone in Scotland holds Alasdair Darling in highest esteem – surely she hasn’t heard his knickname is flipper.

  48. EdinScot says:

    dmw42 says:
    19 April, 2013 at 4:50 pm
    EdinScot “Doesnt sound very Tory to me Ed. In fact its all the things Labour should have been doing but theyre too busy out Thatchering Thatcher
     
    There’s the rub. By moving to the right (and forcing Tories further right), Labour created a gaping hole on their left flank and the SNP stepped in. Labour cannot now move left or they’ll lose Middle England in droves
    In effect, the SNP used New Labour’s strategy against SLab and, as SLab attempt to gain back some leftfield ground in Scotland, there are fractious divisions opening between MPs and MSPs.
     
    Nail, hammer, bang.  Labour are fighting on both fronts at the same time and the messages needed are polar opposites for two different audiences.  Ed and co not only have to remember to keep getting their story straight but when the two different audiences start demanding answers then somethings got to give.  The strain is showing on the faces of the Scottish Labour mps and msps.  Hence the two train wrecks that passed for interviews within hours of each other.  Their job is the poisened chalice the nearer we get to the referendum.  They are on a collision course with the people of Scotland.  It didnt have to be this way but their precious UK usurps everything else that they seem totally blinded by it. 
     
    When people are incapable of acheiving things in life, they tend to get angry and bitter and start lashing out at others for their own inadequacies.  That is what i believe we are seeing with Labour in Scotland with all their anti SNP claptrap.  The’re paralysed by their own hatred.  Lamonts coming over as trying to force the public into what she wants.  Ive got news for her.  It aint happening anytime soon, i want out of this suffocating straightjacket that feels like im shackled to a corpse and so she and her disgrace of a party can go stick her bribes where the sun dont shine.

  49. muttley79 says:

    @annie
     

    Just watched Brian Taylor / Joanne Lamont in just about every answer she said “we must have that debate” or  ” we must wait for that report” .  She also thinks everyone in Scotland holds Alasdair Darling in highest esteem – surely she hasn’t heard his knickname is flipper.
     
    Sadly Lamont appears to conflate the views of her Politburo Glasgow Labour HQ to those of the whole electorate in Scotland.  This is from the same woman who, after the 2011 elections, said that the electorate had stopped listening to SLAB, rather than the other way around.  It appears the isolation of her bunker, and SLAB’s hatred of the SNP, is distorting her senses.  After those two train wreck interviews, and her appeareance at SLAB’s  conference this weekend, I suspect she will be darting back to her bolthole as soon as it ends.

  50. creag an tuirc says:

    @Captain Caveman
    All of your points are completely valid and it’s refreshing to read a mature genuine unionist post. I’m sure you’ll find some pro independence posters on here that agree with some of your issues. I look forward to your future posts on topics where you will be able to express more of your opinions in depth on specific issues.

  51. scottish_skier says:

    Man, imagine going to the cinema with Lamont.

    So what film hen?

    Well, that’s something I feel we all need to debate. I think it’s vital we look at the different options in detail…that we engage with everyone in the group and decide what’s the best way forward.

    Wonder how long she takes over the menu in a restaurant. 

  52. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    @EdinScot-
     
    ‘They’re paralysed by their own  hatred.’
     
    Hear hear.
     
    Lamont seems to be disintegrating before our eyes in much the same way as Blair did after he sold his soul to the Pentagon. Under the stern dinner-lady facade lies a human being – someone’s sister, mum, auntie, daughter.
     
    Those who care for Johann Lamont should have a wee word in her shell-like and persuade her to do what’s best for her and her family. She’s clearly out of her depth and knows the Labour hierarchy better than to expect any compassion from them.
     
    She should take the opportunity at this conference to announce her retirement as ‘leader’ – no-one should doubt that she did her best, but it’s become embarrassingly obvious that her best is nowhere near good enough.
     
     
     

  53. Jeannie says:

    BBC Scotland News reported that Milliband was concerned about the young person in Inverness who can’t find a job.  There’s just one young person in Inverness who can’t find a job.  And Ed managed to find him?

  54. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Captain Caveman
    I would like to say that in general I have enjoyed you comments here. It makes a change to hear a different viewpoint without all the anger that usually accompanies such views when expressed here and on other forums. A big thank you for that.
    You say in your above comment that “I love Scotland and don’t want to lose it” Well either way after the referendum Yes or No we ain’t going anywhere. Scotland and its people will still be here the following day. It has been said that Scotland would be “a happy neighbour rather than a surly lodger” That is a view that think that I share with many Scots and English. Independence is about breaking down barriers not putting up fences.
    You also say that from an admittedly “selfish” viewpoint “The hapless non-London UK badly needs Scotland’s natural wealth” I would have to disagree with that. To that I would say that the UK has mostly squandered Scotland’s natural wealth for the last forty years and selfishly or not it is now Scotland’s turn to use Scotland’s wealth for the good of Scotland and the rest of the hapless UK can go and whistle.
    You also state your concerns that Scotland might not be actually *be* independent. I don’t know I can think of plenty of small independent countries doing all right on their own. I have little or no fear as to the actions of third parties. I do have very grave fears for the consequences if we continue to be governed by Westminster.
    Finally “Don’t split up a good team” now you are having a laugh.
    Cheers anyhow, we will convert you yet. ;-)

  55. Captain Caveman says:

    O/T
    I’m off home now for a glass or two ( ;) ) of MO Sergio Rose whilst the sun is still out (yup, I am indeed the archetypal sassenach ponce :D ). But just wanted to say that I am blown away at the very generous reception that I’ve received here and for that, please accept my humble thanks.
     
    I’m not actually surprised; Mrs C and I spent Hogmanay north of the Highlands this year (we rented a small cottage). We saw the green glow of the Northern Lights; roe deer were grazing in the garden; but most notably, the welcome we received was simply unsurpassed. I’ve been all over the globe but I can honestly say that Scottish hospitality is beyond any compare, anywhere. In my disheveled post-hangover state, whilst walking my grumpy old Rottweiler, complete strangers were hugging me (and the dog) in the street, offering me a drink and all sorts. Blimey, you don’t get that in Cheshire…
     
    I shall be raising my glass to you all this evening. :)

  56. clochoderic says:

    Ed Milliband in Inverness:

     
     

  57. Seasick Dave says:

    Captain
     
    I’m off out now  for a traditional Scottish curry with the family.
     
    Enjoy your evening and weekend :)

  58. James 2612 says:

    O/T, and I hope it has not been noted elsewhere.
    The Guardian has picked up on the Vitol donation:
     
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2013/apr/19/vitol-bettertogether-labour-scotland
     
    WoS gets a mention, even if the link does not work. It has been corrected in a comment.

  59. silver19 says:

    Watched STV News labour are now wanting to have campaign for the naw vote without better together.

  60. Chic McGregor says:

    @HandAndShrimp
    ” Labour are the ultimate one trick pony in Scotland.”
    Even the Spoonerised version would be a better alternative for the NO campaign than gormless Ed. :)
     
    There is a new SI unit.  1 BAND (Brotherly Affection Numerical Designator) represents the normal level of brotherly affection which exists between male siblings.   It is one of those strange coincidences of nature that 1 Milliband just happens to equal the level of affection which exists between David and Ed. :)
     
     
     
     
     
     

  61. Chic McGregor says:

    I knew Matt McGinn and I reckon he and many other past socialists will be spinning in their graves.
     
    Ed the stalking horse, like his alter ego Wallace, seems unsure which trousers to put on and invariably they are the wrong ones.
     
     
     
     
     
     

  62. kininvie says:

    @captain caveman
    I, too, would like to say I enjoy your contributions. Mostly, what we get here from the other side is opinion that isn’t even prepared to be reasoned with.
    I’d like to put in a word about your obvious suspicion of the EU. It is far from a perfect organisation, and it does make horrendous mistakes (fisheries policy e.g.), but for the first time in I don’t know how many centuries, we have a Europe which is not bent on ceaseless competition between nation states. In my book, that single fact makes it worth doing our best to make sure it does not fail. If I were not already a nationalist, the prospect of a UK withdrawal from the EU would most certainly have turned me into one. It’s part of a wider responsibility in which Scotland should be able to play its part, and it increasingly looks as though independence is the only road to achieve that.
     
    I would draw your attention to previous models of pooling aspects of sovereignty. The United States is the obvious one, but in a European context, it is worth considering the Holy Roman Empire. Yes, in some respects it was ridiculous, since it failed ever to become a customs union, but in others – the ability of small (sometimes tiny) polities to be sheltered under a larger umbrella, was remarkable for the time. On the commercial front, the Hanseatic league is worth a look, as indeed, on the military front, is the Delian league. All these supra-national organisations lasted rather longer than the EU has managed to date, but this is not an argument against the EU.

  63. YesYesYes says:

    In the Guardian article, Willie Rennie is quoted as saying, in reference to Ian Taylor’s money:
     
    “If it’s good enough for Harris Tweed, it should be good enough for Better Together”.
     
    What Willie Rennie meant to say was that:
     
    ‘If Ian Taylor’s dirty money is good enough for the Tories, it should be good enough for Labour and the Lib Dems’.
     
     There, that’s better. 

  64. leves says:

    “Labour turmoil as unions grab safe European seats”
     
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3743513.ece
     
    Ed Miliband is facing fierce internal dissent amid claims that plum seats in the European Parliament are being “stitched up” for union-backed candidates.

  65. Boorach says:

    Fitch have downgraded UK to AA+! Now We know why Ozzy was blubbering on Wednesday :-)

  66. DMW42 says:

    Howf drinkers should have a look at a post I’ve made in Quarantine.

  67. scottish_skier says:

    silver19
    Watched STV News labour are now wanting to have campaign for the naw vote without better together.

    Whit? You mean Labour are saying better the gether are naw better the gether?

  68. Handandshrimp says:

    I saw some splendid Labour for Independence banners on the railings outside the Griffen pub in Hope street today – just next door to the Truth Inquisition which I think must be in the old TGWU offices. Proper big canvas style, there for a year and a day if GCC don’t throw their toys out of the cot , type banners. :)

  69. Indion says:

     
    Would someone please point me at a recording of and/or the transcript as delivered  by Miliband to Labour’s Scotttish branch conference this afternoon.

  70. Boorach says:

    Just had a look at the truth team video!
     
    would someone please tell them that Tavish has been laughed down and the Shetlands should still be shown as being part of Scotland. Also faux american accents do absolutely nothing to enhance a Scottish burr!

  71. muttley79 says:

    @scottish _skier
     
    Watched STV News labour are now wanting to have campaign for the naw vote without better together.
    Whit? You mean Labour are saying better the gether are naw better the gether?
     
    Confused.com  Why are they doing that now?  Do they think the Tories are trying to shaft them?  That is the only thing I can think about because there really is hardly any difference between the two parties now?

  72. scottish_skier says:

    @muttley

    Seems there might be a bit of a split in the no campaign developing. Working with the Tories must be bad enough, but add in Taylorgate…

    A split in the No campaign would not be good for them though.

    Seems we’re also seeing a split in Labour MPs vs MSPs too. If there was any more magical devolution it really needs the OK from English MPs. Not only that, it would weaken the role of Scottish Labour MPs. The latter clearly not happy about the prospect.

    What a pickle for the pro-union campaign.

    It’s the status quo or indy. That’s becoming clear it would seem, and it’s the pro-union campaign saying it.

    The first major turning point came with the signing of the Edinburgh Agreement.  This week’s stuff could well be the beginning of a mass shift back to Yes as per 2011.

  73. Indion says:

     
    Southernscot @ 8:12pm: thanks!
     
    DMW42 @ 7:35pm: Grateful if you – or any other regulars – could answer my question re ‘howf in Quarantine.

  74. Dcanmore says:

    Bill Bailey (funny gent), who has a Scottish wife, has came out FOR independence.
     
    So what does an Englishman think of the biggest question in Scotland – should we be independent?
    Bill is in the Yes camp.
    He said: “There is so much about the language, culture, the people, food, laws that are different. There has always been an otherness in Scotland, from education to buying a house. There’s a long history of independence of mind, so why not extend that further and finalise it. Only thing practically – will Scotland benefit? If it does, great.”
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity-interviews/comedian-bill-bailey-admits-loves-1840796#.UXEi5K42gW8.twitter

  75. muttley79 says:

    @Scottish Skier
     
    Seems there might be a bit of a split in the no campaign developing. Working with the Tories must be bad enough, but add in Taylorgate…
    A split in the No campaign would not be good for them though.
    Seems we’re also seeing a split in Labour MPs vs MSPs too. If there was any more magical devolution it really needs the OK from English MPs. Not only that, it would weaken the role of Scottish Labour MPs. The latter clearly not happy about the prospect.
    What a pickle for the pro-union campaign.
    It’s the status quo or indy. That’s becoming clear it would seem, and it’s the pro-union campaign saying it.
    The first major turning point came with the signing of the Edinburgh Agreement.  This week’s stuff could well be the beginning of a mass shift back to Yes as per 2011.
     
    Labour would have to publically split from the BT campaign.  If this happened then the No campaign would effectively become split between two factions, with Labour and the Tories/Lib Dems (because they are in govt at Westminster) campaigning for a No vote.  I can’t really see the benefits to Labour of doing this.  They would effectively be admiting that they can’t trust the Tories.  It also is not helpful to the No campaign’s co-ordination of their campaigning.  The problems of having a split campaign was demonstrated by the Yes side in 1979.  Salmond played a blinder by forcing them to turn down the chance of a second question.  He will have known that the electorate would start to question the No sides’ commitment to devolving more powers, particularly to the undecided and the soft Nos.  
     

  76. john king says:

    “I think he’s taking her death too badly – I can see he’s upset at her loss, but surely suttee is taking his dedication too far.”
     
    self immolation is not for everyone
      

  77. Jiggsbro says:

    A split in the No campaign would not be good for them though. Seems we’re also seeing a split in Labour MPs vs MSPs too.
     
    Separatists everywhere!

  78. fordie says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    19 April, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    “Where’s it being shown?Uzbekistan?”
     
    My pal’s from Uzbekistan. She says it’s a happening place – despite :) Don’t wish that on them.

  79. Yesitis says:

    Kind of OT.
    Can I just say how much I appreciate Peter A Bell`s Referendum 2014 (linked under Scottish Politics here on WoS).
    Along with Wings and NewsNet, Referendum 2014 is a regular in this household for a nice compendium of all things worth a good read regards the debate.

    Thanks Peter.

  80. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Yesitis-
     
    Peter A Bell is responsible for, IMO, the best online riposte seen thus far in the referendum debate. 
     
    I can’t locate the debate/thread, but I’m sure it was in response to Grahamski:
     
    ‘Nothing is free, fool.’
     
    Total classic. I don’t know Peter, but I like to imagine he has a very deep voice, and wrote it whilst frowning a la Mr T:
     
    http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/27372765/MrT.jpg

  81. Yesitis says:

    Ianbrotherhood
    Absolutely.  I can`t fault the Bell.
    I think he`s awesome.
     

  82. MajorBloodnok says:

    The awsum and indispensible Peter Bell is featured on the most recent “for aw that podcasts” and you’re right, he does have a deep voice.
     
    http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-inevitable-thatcherite-edition.html
     
    I think I saw him at the independence rally last September on the Meadows, but after meandering around a bit I lost the nerve and didn’t say anything.  Next time however, I may dare to introduce myself, and to anyone else that turns up – make yerselves known!

  83. silver19 says:

    labour’s separate naw vote campaign from bonkers together naw vote http://player.stv.tv/programmes/news-at-six-edinburgh-east/2013-04-19-1800/ start about 12min 25sec

  84. Tattie-boggle says:

    @

    MajorBloodnok
     
    Get yourself a T shirt printed with your name on it and everyone else that is going to the Rally in September can do the same :)

     

  85. Ron says:

    O/T Sorry,
    Derek Bateman on GMS; ‘I’m going to award you some points here, Richard Baker, that’s the first time you’ve used the word ‘Independence’ instead of ‘Separation’ since the start of this interview’.
     
    Beauty!

  86. James Morton says:

    @Edinscot

    Agree with your post – Labour are constantly shifting to the right to outflank the tories who move to the right of UKIP, who in turn move to the right of the BNP. Its all regressive, backward looking and destructive. The SNP simply walked in and occupied the left. This has put Slab in a pickle as it finds it now has to try and attack the SNP from the rightwing adopting the language and ideas of the tories.

    Miliband comes to Scotland to launch a personal attack on Salmond.This pretty much showed me that the UK party is as disfunctional as the Scottish wing, as it plays the man not the ball. The other dilemma is that he has no wriggle room with which to develop a theme that would appeal to Scots. He can’t take a softer line here because it would undermine his position in England – which he needs to win over if he wants to be PM. So he is left with the unenviable task of trying to sell Thatcher to the Scots and with the swivel eyed logic that Labour has become famous for, then attack Salmond for being like Thatcher. This leaves labour trying to sell Scotland the proverbial “pig in a poke”

  87. Patrick Roden says:

    If Labour split from the No campaign, who gets to keep Ian Taylors half a million? He’s a Tory so I’d imagine he’s want Ruthies side of the split to have it.
     
    Would this make the Labour Party ‘seperatists’ ?
     
    Oh please Lord, let them do this ;-)



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