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Wings Over Scotland


The spokesman who won’t speak

Posted on August 02, 2013 by

So, slightly to our surprise, we actually just got a reply from Blair McDougall to our email offering to put on a debate between Alistair Darling and Dennis Canavan at a mutually-convenient time and location and with a neutral host.

blairmcdougall24

You can read it below.

“Apologies if the tweet to you a few days ago was somehow too esoteric for you. I thought it made it pretty clear what our response was. 

I don’t believe that Blair Jenkins has accepted your invitation because to do so would mean Yes Scotland legitimising the hateful output from your laptop. That would be a huge mistake on their part and not one Better Together will be making. 

We take part in debates with our opposite numbers all the time but, for the avoidance of doubt, we won’t be taking part in any event organised by you.

Enjoy your day.

Blair”

A few quick points:

1. We’re not sure Mr McDougall actually meant “esoteric”, but here’s the tweet:

mcdougallacceptance

2. In any event, the highly offensive allegation is untrue. Blair Jenkins quite plainly DID accept our invitation on behalf of Yes Scotland, in public, and confirmed that acceptance later by private message.

3. We’re not sure what our “hateful output” is, but we don’t own a laptop.

4.We take part in debates with our opposite numbers all the time”. Really? ALL the time? Offhand we can think of a single edition each of Scotland Tonight and Newsnight Scotland in which Mr McDougall and Mr Jenkins both appeared, although neither was a debate as such.

We’re also not aware of Alistair Darling having taken part in any public debates on independence involving his “opposite number”, Dennis Canavan, and he has explicitly refused to debate Blair Jenkins either.

While the “Better Together” chairman refuses to debate the Yes Scotland chairman and sneers arrogantly at the Yes Scotland director as an “underling”, the only person he does appear to be prepared to debate is Alex Salmond – someone who isn’t even on the Yes Scotland board and has no official role in the group whatsoever.

(Perhaps because as First Minister he’s got a country to run, rather than spending his time chatting to a mostly-absentee Labour backbencher with ideas above his station.)

darlingworks

The No camp constantly demands debate and complains of not having its questions answered, yet its chief “spokesman” refuses to stand up in front of the Scottish public and challenge anyone in the Yes campaign face to face.

Maybe we’re just not offering to pay him enough.

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236 to “The spokesman who won’t speak”

  1. Lianachan says:

    What an appalling response.  You can feel the arrogance and hatred just dripping from it.

  2. annie says:

    Well that’s that then – do you think maybe he’s a wee bit annoyed.

  3. Lianachan says:

    Maybe he didn’t like the offer of the fish supper.  You should probably have explained that he could have had a scampi supper, or a black pudding one or anything he liked instead.

  4. Atypical_Scot says:

    Why not donate the on cost of a debate to Yes Scotland and get B Jenkins to contact B  Evasion McD himself? 

  5. Well, there’s a surprise!

  6. “hateful output” people in glass houses indeed! Maybe he got you confused with the person he hired as the admin for the Better Together website?

  7. Seasick Dave says:

    Offer two pickled eggs as well.

  8. JimbotheScot says:

    nothing to win from having a debate and everything to lose
     
    their ‘arguments’ will be picked to pieces instantly and the results will be all over the web so they will clearly take the cowards way out and continue pumping out their fear mongering unabated 

  9. pa_broon74 says:

    As I understand it, what Blair has just done is known on internet forums as a ‘flounce’.
     

  10. John Lyons says:

    That response is staggering in it’s tone. I cannot imagine, had the situation been reversed that Blair Jenkins would respond to a request for debate from a pro union blog in that tone, even if he really didn’t want to do it, he’d have turned them down politely.
     
    Either McDougal didn’t expect you to publish his response, which of course everyone else does given you published the threat of legal action from Ian Taylor, or he thinks it’s only wings over Scotland and the handful of people that read his blog, which again given your evidence previously published is wrong as I think in the past you’ve claimed to have more readers than the Scotsman.
     
    The last option is that Blair McDougal is out of touch with the common man and woman in Scotland. Surely it can’t be that!

  11. Iain says:

    I hope the Yes campaign are now in the process of offering a debate with Canavan & Darling, unencumbered by the bilious attentions of the Rev’s non-existent laptop.

  12. Juteman says:

    Offer him a Kinder egg. Kids can’t resist them.

  13. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Well what do you know, Project Fear has found a new target.
    He’s so FEART to say anything he is now running away from previous statements about taking part in a debate. I wonder what he or Darling has to hide. It wouldn’t be the fact that they have been telling LIES, being DECEITFUL with the facts and spreading MISINFORMATION to the population of Scotland would it?
    Here I was looking forward to seeing Alistair Darling rip Dennis Canavan to shreds with all HIS knowledge of the TRUTH about what will happen to an independent Scotland and now I learn that he, along with Blair McDougall are too feart to tell Dennis Canavan that he is WRONG! 😆

  14. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Offer him a Kinder egg. Kids can’t resist them.”

    And if that doesn’t work, Dairylea. I gather they’ll do anything for it.

  15. Geoff Huijer says:

    Not surprised.
     
    He has nothing to debate with afterall.
     
    He knows, and we know, there is no positive case for the Union.
    Deflect, smear, scare and bully is all they know and like all other
    bullies they chicken out when confronted.

  16. Training Day says:

    As predicted, McDougall will only ‘debate’ in a controlled environment with tame journalists and a vetted audience.
     
    His arrogance is matched only by his cowardice.

  17. Yesitis says:

    It would come as no surprise if this is turned into a case of ‘Better Together noble philanthropist, ex slim Britnat and union flag waving general good guy suffers vile cybernat abuse at slimy hands of Scottish separatist scum’

  18. Roboscot says:

    ‘By their words shall ye know them’.

  19. Doug Daniel says:

    I agree with John Lyons, I simply can’t imagine Blair Jenkins responding to someone with such contempt. It just shows you what kind of campaign they’re running, and that the difference between their immature approach to it all and Yes Scotland’s serious approach goes far deeper than just Twitter.
     
    As for “I can’t believe…” meaning “I don’t believe”, I can only assume Blair McDougall has never bought I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter. If he has, I’ve got a nasty surprise for him: it really isn’t butter.

  20. Murray McCallum says:

    This is really confusing.  Is Blair McDougall also a spokesperson for Yes Scotland.  In the 2nd para he seems to be putting forward an opinion on behalf of both Blair Jenkins and Yes Scotland?  This is an interesting approach to making sure debates never take place.

  21. Jiggsbro says:

    Hateful output? That sounds like defamation to me. Do you know of any lawyers who might be able to handle speculative defamation cases?

  22. Mike Hutchison says:

    Not surprised by his response, the tone is interesting. But he knows, apparently as a certainty, that you use a laptop Rev – DUN-DUN-DUNNNNN!

  23. Robert Kerr says:

    Surely the honest response is to provide a confirmation from Blair Jenkins personally that he has accepted your invitation.
    Ya boo sucks seems to be the name of the game.
    O/T a little but the photo reminds me of another idea, The “Bitter Together” lot seem to be really unpleasant in their photographs, I shudder at the Gardham one on the Herald’s website. So a collection of photographs of all concerned. No caption. Just who is who, on both sides. Let’s see them warts and all.
    Hail Alba

  24. panda paws says:

    There’s a career in the diplomatic service awaiting him after Better Together win the referendum with a 90% majority.
    But at least we are no longer waiting with “baited” breath for an answer (sorry Rev – couldn’t resist!)

  25. Max says:

    BT’s Baxter park event in Dundee tomorrow could become interesting.
     
    Maybe throwing a chip or two in the stall’s direction might get a better response than Blair McDougall’s. 

  26. Geoff Huijer says:

    Perhaps Blair really wasn’t available and they just got
    a Primary school kid to reply instead.
     
    I mean, that reply surely didn’t come from someone
    that is a supposed professional.
     
    PS apologies to Primary school kids.

  27. Vronsky says:

    You’ve exposed a weakness, Rev.  Could it be further exposed?  Could we arrange a series of very public challenges by Canavan, Jenkins, Sturgeon, Grogan, Craig Murray, me, my cat Molly, anybody – and log their refusals – these people who need answers, and want to debate.  We could be theatrical about it, hire the hall, place the chairs, call the meeting to order, roll the cameras, post the footage everywhere.  Here’s the Unionists defending the Union.  Impressed?
     
    Fact is, they’ll only venture into the sunlight if they’re assured an easy passage from some arselicker round at the BBC – microphone turned up for them, turned down for their opponent.  Debate to these creatures is like garlic to a vampire.
     
    I know we’re not supposed to comment on someone’s appearance, but your reply from McDougall reminds me of the joke: beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes right down to the bone.

  28. John Lyons says:

    Geoff, I once had a similarly toned response from a guy who ran his own buisness manufacturing battle ready swords with a lifetime guarantee. When it broke the guarantee was a matter of some debate. Grown men are perfectly capable of being childish. (And yes, I do get the irony of that comment coming from a guy who dresses up in chain mail and plays with swords at the weekends!)

  29. david says:

    i dont think the leader of the no campaign blair mcdougall is a coward at all . im sure mr mcdougal would be offended if he read these opinions. there is however no doubt that this man is an overweight bullyboy 

  30. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ annie – Oh yes he is annoyed and he is gonna be spittin nails when his refusal gets plastered all over the internet. Interesting to note that he actually reads the ‘hateful. vindictive and bilious’ tripe that appears? daily on WOS. Sorry folks but its squeeky clean from now on….yeah right!
    @ CameronB – Parcel Post arrived from BT Resources today [FREEBIES]. Hey, sorry to upset you BT but if I have the pens and tiny pathetic lapel pins, that means 200 souls will be saved from such trash, because here they will remain.
    Ironic isnt it? At the same time as the useless BT flyers and Voter questionnaire forms arrived along came a letter from Mark McDonald MSP thanking me for my assistance during his election campaign. He didnt comment on my ‘windae-hingin’ above the voting station mind you.
    Well done Rev Stu. you backed him into a corner.

  31. Rod Mac says:

    I have always maintained that unionists are cowards.
    This confirms it completely,stand by for some smearing now Rev that is the usual tactic.
    Cowards ,and liars ,sums up BT.
    Run rabbit run…. we should go to BT events and everytime he appears start making chicken noises

  32. Robert Louis says:

    I must say, despite my initial understanding of just how disingenuous the Bitter together campaign actually is, I am surprised, that somebody in such an important public office, might choose to write in public with such clearly worded venom.  Some might even believe, it betrays the very nature of the person, which isn’t pretty at all.
     
    It not only reeks of amateurism, but it also indicates fear.
     
    It is now 100% clear, and without a doubt, that the unionist Better Together campaign, which opposes Scottish democracy and independence, is a sham. 
     
    What a truly desperate bunch.
     
    Just as a postcript, just for the avoidance of doubt once again, the YES campaign did actually really agree to a debate.  A pity that Bitter together are too feart.

  33. Restlessnative says:

    Never read a bit of bile on here,eloquent contempt,but never bile.
     

  34. Angus McPhee says:

    My god, I couldn’t have imagined a ‘better’ response if I’d written it myself pretending to be him as an attempt to discredit him. Certainly not a man with a career in the Diplomatic core ahead of him.
    So we can now see that Blair McDougal doesn’t believe facts plainly in view in front of him, that he underestimates the opposition and that he’s not quite tuned in enough to take PR advice before responding to public requests. Are they not even reading this that they feel it so easy to dismiss you? – long may it continue and long may Blair pass the ball back to the keeper while he’s not paying attention.

  35. Geoff Huijer says:

    John, you are totally right!
     
    There is, however, a time and place for being childish.
    Running about with swords may or may not be (I think not)
    and my playing Red Dead Redemption on XBOX each night
    probably is BUT when working with Guinness I could stand up
    in front of 200 people at the Oval press box and be PROFESSIONAL.
     
    Therein lies the difference; these people are childish amateurs
    and they want us to give them respect? Ha!

  36. Restlessnative says:

    Rod Mac
    Or send him a white feather….Fly tying kit duly raided.

  37. scotchwoman says:

    Terribly sad to see such an arrogant and aggressive man employed in such an important role. I had been thinking the improving debate on the potential for a fairer society was the early emergence of a long awaited new enlightenment in Scotland. I don’t see this attack dog making any positive contribution to the body of thought. In fact, his bullying and defensive approach is symptomatic of the need for a new politics. Read between his lines and see what Better Together offers and represents. Very poor indeed.  

  38. Robert Louis says:

    Still actually shocked at the tone this man uses in his communications.  Really, really shocked.

  39. NorthBrit says:

    Do SLab dish out an award for the best unintentionally ironic and Freudian use of “hateful” by their apparatchiks?
     
    If so I’m guessing it’s some kind of high fat pie, that clogs up not only the arteries, but the brain.
     
    Which would explain the appearance and behaviour of not just the egregious Blair McDougall, but the entire SLab team.

  40. Ray says:

    “You’ve exposed a weakness. Could we arrange a series of very public challenges by Canavan, Jenkins, Sturgeon, Grogan, Craig Murray, me, my cat Molly, anybody – and log their refusals – these people who need answers, and want to debate.”

    This is a very good idea. Keep up with politeness, keep up with positivity, keep asking for these kind of events. Keep logging the refusals.

  41. Rod Mac says:

    As we have seen time after time ask a Unionist a simple question like ..
    “what is the positive case fr the union ?” ,or “What extra powers will be devolved if we vote No?”  and they go off in one talking of bullying by cybernats etc.
    Unionists only ever pose questions they NEVER answer questions.
    So tell us Mr Darling what can we expect from Westminster post Referendum .
    AD :-“The SNP are ….Alex Salmond is ……..”
    They have no answers ,so it is no surprise they are running scared as usual.
    They know under scrutiny they will crumble ,only in the safety of BBC with tame unionist interviewers will we ever see them.

  42. frankieboy says:

    What a horrible person…not news, just confirmation.

  43. david says:

    i concur with scothwoman

  44. bunter says:

    Any head to head debate will only take place on the terms of BT, and under strictly controlled conditions by their media lackeys, so that no surprise/ difficult questions can be asked, other than ”what is your name”. Just look at the last few editions of QT to get the idea.  

  45. Jimbo says:

    So Alistair Darling considers himself too grand to debate with anyone below his station? A socialist with airs and graces and delusions of grandeur? How quaint.
     
    Perhaps, if the YES camp’s Denis Canavan promised to touch his forelock to Darling before responding to each point in the debate, Darling may reconsider?

  46. Jeannie says:

    @Rev
     
    Well, he only said he wouldn’t take part in any debate organised by you.  He didn’t mention “paid for”.  Maybe there’s somebody else who could organise it if we pay for it?

  47. Rod Mac says:

    If the YES Campaign had behaved in a similar manner and had used such an aggressive ill mannered response BBC and MSM would have been all over it like a cheap suit.
    As it is this will remain  in the  Internet only  and BT know this so can act in such an uncouth and ill mannered way.

  48. Simon says:

    Just thinking that if I ever wrote an email of that kind of tone and attitude and language in reply to a request from a customer or a potential client or even from someone I had no business dealings with whatever, then as soon as I had pressed the “send” button I would be running round the room clutching my hair and wailing “oh my god what have I done I am ruined my reputation is in tatters I may as well give up now” and I would spend the next few hours composing the most grovelling apology I could and send some kind of compensation or gift. And I would still feel miserable and like I had failed my entire project permanently.

    Perhaps my standards are too high.

  49. iain taylor (not that one) says:

    “hateful output”! Hilarious.  

  50. Tattie-boggle says:

    pting Microwave popcorn is ready this should be a fun weekend it’s only a matter of time before Blair blows a twitter gasket 🙂

  51. jim mitchell says:

    He was most likely scared that if the thing of opposite numbers really got going then he would most likely be asked to debate with Blair Jenkins.
    But at least he whole world knows the situation now and this is the kind of thing that could come back to haunt the NO side.
    Final thought, I suppose you could ask them kindly to list the debates.

  52. Max says:

     
    Maybe a direct approach to McDougall’s boss, Alistair Darling is now required.
     
    If that doesn’t work try contacting Darling’s boss George Osborne. 

  53. CameronB says:

    Am I mistaken, or was Blair McDougal’s reply the rattle of a worried man?

  54. Ian says:

    Maybe Blair McDougall has eaten Johann Lamont and that’s why she can’t be found. The sneering tone is a bloody disgrace. 

  55. frankieboy says:

    As would be said at the gates of school at four if a person didn’t turn up for the fight. He shat it.
     

  56. beachthistle says:

    Not shocked nor surprised.
    Pleased though. Shows he has no idea of what is happening, the changing dynamic, outside his BT/BBC/MSM bubble/cocoon – and is obviously feeling secure enough inside it to feel he can answer in this way and get away with it.
    The best ‘Yes’ can hope for is that he stays in the job and continues to think and behave in this way…it is going to be a long year+ for him..
     

  57. Craig M says:

    When you give careful consideration to Better Together output, in any form, it is crystal clear that the personalities involved, Blair McDougall, Darling and their associated tame journalists are obvious sociopaths.
    Apply the questions included in the link below, to what you have evidenced coming from these people and draw your own conclusions.
    http://sociopathtest.org/

  58. Clarinda says:

    Mr McDougall could have simply written a polite refusal but instead has deliberately chosen to demonstrate a shallow, intemperate and immature reaction which, if I’m honest, was entirely expected.
    Of course he may have been wary of fulfilling the possibility within “Better to remain [relatively] silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”.
    Dear Rev Stu. please forgive my “hateful output” (I do have a laptop) – and any allusion towards esotericism I may have made.

  59. CameronB says:

    Just as I was about to suggest BMcD might perhaps be a candidate for the Psychopathy Checklist?

  60. Angus McPhee says:

    Crickey! I’ve just found secret footage from Better together HQ . Alistair Pops in at 2.20 to see what’s up!

  61. Rod Mac says:

    Blair Jenkins and Denis Cannavan should keep this in the locker for the next time this lot mention all the questions that need answered..
     

  62. Indy_Scot says:

     
    His tone and language does come across as a bit aggressive and confrontational verging on thuggish. How very Labour like.
     

  63. Angus McPhee says:

    Johann,Alistair and Blair have a confrontation at the crossing at 4.11!
     

  64. annie says:

    Could this be Blair’s Iain Gray moment – remember he ran into Subway rather then answer questions posed by a pensioner.

  65. david says:

    not as confrontational and aggresive as johan lamont

  66. Luigi says:

    How about going ahead with a very public debate, and we bring along an empty chair with a rather large “Blair McDougall” sign on the back of it – just in case!

  67. The Man in the Jar says:

    I think that we should taunt McDougal some more. Here are some taunts /bile provided by some French fellows that may be useful.
    “I one more time (how you say?) unclog my nose in your direction sons of a window dresser. I wave my private parts at your aunties. You cheesy bunch of second-hand electric donkey bottom biters. You tiny brained wipers of other peoples bottoms. We fire arrows into the tops of your heads and make castanets out of you testicles already!”
    (Monty Python and the Holy Grail, French taunting)

  68. Iain Ross says:

    You should just organise the debate anyway. If you can get Yes Scotland and the media to turn up it shall show up Better Together for what they are.

  69. Jamie Arriere says:

    This guy looks like a weakspot to me, and an accident waiting to happen. The more outbursts like this that can be extracted from him the better. I think the pressure is getting to him. So don’t let up – if he thinks your output is hateful, let him sue. The guy’s a pen-pusher not a politician, and one that is petrified of facing opposing views
    You had a piece called “Running Scared” the other day – better keep that headline handy for re-use again and again

  70. Luigi says:

    not as confrontational and aggresive as johan lamont
     
    Who?

  71. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Jeannie – I wonder if Sophie S. from RT.com would be the independent questioner for ‘the debate’ which is certainly inevitable. That would be good for kuodos in many ways, specifically ‘international interest’. BBC would roll over and die.

  72. Luigi says:

    Where is the wonderful leader who will not lead – has she gone to ground again?

  73. G H Graham says:

    I think you were naïve or just too hopeful that Blair McDougall would get involved in such a debate, despite this invitation coming from “the largest political party in Scotland’.
    When a movement exists on the basis of the most flimsiest of arguments, most supported by puerile comic book scare stories, made up on the spot assumptions & illogical arithmetic, one shouldn’t be surprised that it doesn’t want to engage in any type of proper debate.
    It hasn’t the means or basis to debate what it is arguing for because the analysis clearly shows that there isn’t a single good reason economically or socially for remaining in the UK. The only reason that exists is a purely emotional one.
    Thus we get a snide comment from McDougall because he has nothing else to offer.
    Except irony.
    And that about sums the whole debate up.
    By the way, where’s Lamont?

  74. mato21 says:

    As I posted on another thread Mr Darling is a public servant paid from the public purse ie us as such he should make himself available at the request of said public The old adage of he who pays the piper calsl the tune comes into play I think
    I think a direct request to him is now called for, reminding him of these facts

  75. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Careful Rod Mac, making suggestions like this….
    Run rabbit run…. we should go to BT events and every time he appears start making chicken noises

    could very well mark a return to this….
     
    /wingsoverscotland.com/songs-for-johann/#comments
     
    Slightly O/T Stu but itll Labour in Scotland related, sort of, have you seen this over on Munguin’s site yet?
     
    munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/oh-dear-ruth.html

  76. Robert says:

    Like almost all the unionists I have dealt with over the last couple of years, ‘Blair’ comes across as an arrogant, boorish, two faced, lying, completely up himself twat.
    Tell me I’m wrong.

  77. Jeannie says:

    @archie (not erchie)
     
    I wonder if Sophie S. from RT.com would be the independent questioner for ‘the debate’ which is certainly inevitable. That would be good for kuodos in many ways, specifically ‘international interest’.
     
    Oh, I suspect Sophie would generate all kinds of interest 🙂  Might be better to get Bernard Ponsonby – I’m only thinking of your blood pressure!

  78. Max says:

     
    I think this proves that Blair McDougall is just like Johann Lamont. Another angry mouthpiece masquerading as somebody with power but who reality is not allowed to wipe their bums without permission. 
     
    We know who pulls Lamont’s strings, who is pulling McDougall’s?

  79. Vronsky says:

    “If that doesn’t work try contacting Darling’s boss George Osborne”
     
    And if that doesn’t work, let’s go after Osborne’s boss – that wee lassie doing work experience in Washington.

  80. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Jeannie – Dammit was I so transparent? 🙂
     

  81. Max says:

     
    The sound of loud clucking at BT events will have an impact.  

  82. Robert McDonald says:

    Stu: Darling’s dissing you on twitter! Call him out.

  83. scotty says:

    so criticism of the union or any of the bitter mob is deemed “hateful” is it?could BMcD justify the continued personal attacks on Salmond if this is the case?also as i only really became intrested in the debate in the first place thanks to tinternet it seems incredibly nieve of the BT clowns to assume that a cosy relationship with the Beeb is going to help in any way in the lead up to referendum time.just because hthe scottish media decide what they will and will not report does not stop anyone who can actually engage the critical part of the brain to search for the evidence of how a campaign is being run online.im sure we could all find some hateful bile directed at AS,SNP,any who question the 3 party line on online forums ect,keep it up BMcD.you are doing our job for us!!!
    😀

  84. Max says:

    Yes campaigners should have pictures of Johann Lamont posted at BT events under the banner, “Huv u seen this wummin?”

  85. Vronsky says:

    “Tell me I’m wrong”
     
    You’re wrong.  If he had two faces, he wouldn’t walk around with that one.  Perma-tan?  Early stage cirrhosis?  Maybe it isn’t just his view of the world that is jaundiced.

  86. Firestarter says:

    This guy is supposed to be one of the “top dogs” entrusted with maintaining, and promoting the positive case for, the union?? His entire demeanour suggests he would be out of his depth trying to promote a positive case for Christmas.
    “….. it would cost a fortune …. all that waste wrapping paper generated …. people might get presents they don’t really want …… and besides, Santa isn’t real, kids . ”
    I mean, seriously …….. if you were passionate about something, and genuinely believed in it, surely you would want to extol its virtues at every opportunity? Well, wouldn’t you? The whole BT ambience is that of a dark cloud, with a wet blanket slung over it for good measure.

  87. Somebody says:

    Let’s cut him some slack. I mean, i too would be a tad angry if I knew I was going to lose a big referendum in just over a year’s time. 😉

  88. Roll_On_2014 says:

    Well Stu I suppose there is always ‘Plan B’.

    Sit Dennis Canavan on one chair, on the next chair flounce up a number of cushions to make it look like McDougall.

    Get somebody hidden behind McDougall’s chair to stick their hand up his bum to give him some animation and to grunt/answer/ask questions.

    Nobody will notice the feckin difference.

  89. Robert Kerr says:

    @Somebody.
    Lose and goodbye HoL.
    Wait Autie Anabelle has been rewarded for failure.
    Hail Alba

  90. Firestarter says:

    @Somebody
    No, that cant be it. Remember he ran David Millibands unsuccessful leadership campaign. He’s used to failure. Maybe that’s why he was chosen for the post 😉

  91. Craig says:

    Brave McDougall ran away.
    Bravely ran away, away!
    When Wings it reared its hateful head,
    He bravely turned his tail and fled.
    Yes, brave McDougall turned about
    And gallantly he chickened out.
    Bravely taking to his feet
    He beat a very brave retreat,
    Bravest of the brave, McDougall! 
     

  92. Juteman says:

    Such gravitas. We have no chance!

  93. Juteman says:

    Have the debate with one of the pandas.

  94. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Just a wee thought here, but if that very nice man Mr McDougall or that even nicer man Mr Darling are too feart to sit in on a debate with Dennis Canavan then I think I know who might be available to take their place………… Alexandr Orlov! I hear he is between advert assignments at the moment. I do have a cuddly toy example of that very nice Mr Orlov available if required. 😆

  95. Celyn says:

    That message was incredibly spiteful and childish.  Weird.  I had thought Blair McDougall might at least be civil.  Oh well.

  96. sionnach says:

    While patiently waiting for a “positive case for the union” (supported, as one might reasonably require, by well-sourced, checkable facts), I have discovered more than 50 ways of twiddling my thumbs. Thanks to Mr McDougall, I might discover a few more yet…

  97. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    From Matt McGinn
     
    10 thousand roman sodjers,
    tae the heilans they came North,
    and they had conquered millions,
    fae the Tiber tae the Forth,
    they landed near Loch Lomond,
    for the night they thought they’d lie,
    but fae somewhere on the Cobbler hill,
    they heard this terrible cry.

    Chorus:

    Grigalai! Grigaloo!
    Come up and fight,
    ya cowardly crew,
    I’ll have you for my pot of stew,
    Yer feart tae fight wi’ me!

    On top was a great big heilan’ man,
    with a kilt and a big claymore,
    he looked a bit ferocious,
    so Caesar sent up four,
    then he sat doon tae supper,
    wi’ the bright light o’ the Moon,
    but he lost his taste for vino,
    when four heids came rollin’ doon.

    Chorus

    Then he sent up Marc Anthony,
    with another fifty-five ,
    “Go bring that rascal’s heid tae me,
    or ah’ll have ye skinned alive”,
    they heard the clash o’ metal then,
    until the night was done,
    but then there came this terrible cry,
    with the rising o’ the Sun.

    Chorus

    Then he sent up a thousand men,
    this heilan’ man to crack,
    but oot o’ a’ that thousand,
    there was only one came back,
    “Oh Caesar,” screamed the sodjer,
    wi’ his heid and black and blue,
    “that rascal has been kidding us,
    there’s no’ just one, there’s two!”

    Chorus

    Then Caesar picked his suitcase up,
    and he ran southwards then,
    he was doin’ sixty miles an hour,
    but he couldnae catch his men,
    but now you’ll maybe wonder,
    why I’ve told this tale at all,
    well it has a simple moral,
    and they call it Hadrian’s Wall.

    Chorus
     
    Replace the Romans with etc etc.
     

  98. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    I’ve heard more class from an episode of  Rab C Nesbit than Blair McDougall’s unjustified rant. Better to remain silent and thought of as a fool etc. 

  99. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I ‘m sure that Wings budget (resereve) could stretch to a “bistro” meal at the Ubiquitous Chip in Ruthven Lane, which could well salivate his political juices?

  100. Doonfooter says:

    I am going to be very dissapointed in the official Yes campaign if Blair Jenkins and Denis Canavan don’t make a formal offer to Blair McDougal and Aiastair Darling over the course of the weekend to have such a public debate at a time and place to be agreed. There was always a possiblity that McDougal would deny Wings but I’d like to see Yes reiterate that offer of a public debate and lets see if he runs away from that!

  101. Simon says:

    Yes Archie [not Erchie], that is a very intriguing idea for RT to host a series of high-profile debates. And if that Sophie wummin chairs them I’m sure she’d do a very impartial job of it. Do you think it would get lots of watchers here, would the BBC be able to resist reporting on the horror of it?

  102. southernscot says:

    These unionist politicians know fine well they are f**king over the people of Scotland. They know a Yes vote will make all Scottish politicians toxic for several years in London. They are fighting for their political lives and livelihood and feel power slipping from them. Their little part of the empire is crumbling and know they will be treated as foreigners in England and they know how badly they are treated. I wonder if the people of Scotland will be as forgiving when the truth is out?

  103. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    panda paws says:
     
    You are called out on Munguins Republic.  Be there or be Square.

  104. Indy_Scot says:

    In all honesty, from the look of his picture above, he does look like a bit of a loose cannon with a short fuse waiting to blow.

  105. Max says:

    It looks like they have found Johann Lamont
     
    “Obesity levels in Scotland are much worse than shown in official figures released earlier this year” – BBC News
     
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-23552735

  106. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Luigi says:
     
    With Mr Blobby in the chair?

  107. Max says:

    Hats off to Dennis Canavan – he obviously frightens the proverbial out of Alistair Darling. 

  108. ianbrotherhood says:

    I’ve not had many dealings with ‘proper’ business folk, but can’t help feeling that whoever’s really funding BT must be asking whether or not McDougall should be handed his jotters.

  109. G H Graham says:

    southernscot nods towards a point I’ve made several times; that this fight for Scotland’s future is actually little to do with national economics but almost everything to do with saving the political & financial lives of those Scottish Unionists entirely dependent on Westminster.
    Independence will result in the termination of their roles in London but they will have no role to play in Scotland either.
    This is their worst fear; a political & economical no-man’s land.
    London will blame them for “breaking up” Britain & Edinburgh will reject their sheepish advances if they have the nerve to show up on the foot steps of Holyrood.
    All the other fluff about border posts, cell phone charges, oil running out & paying extra for whiskey in a Hong Kong Embassy are just that; puerile, childish guff intended to obscure the obvious.

  110. Albert Herring says:

    I’ve checked all the sockets on my laptop and it definitely doesn’t have a “hateful output”. Do I need to upgrade?

  111. dmw42 says:

    @ianbrotherhood
     
    Oh I can picture it Ian – Ian R Taylor to BMcD “hey you, pick a number between P44 and P46,,, and where’s ma feckin’ ermine”

  112. Edulis says:

    I got a phone call today from Better Together asking me if I would like to receive their policy paper on sustainability. I said, “you better know that I am with Yes Scotland” and her response was maybe the paper will change my mind to which my response was,  “not very likely, I have looked into this in detail, but anyway let me see what you have got”. This is the first time have had any dealings with BT. I think she was genuinely shocked that my response was so robust. She probably will be used to non-commital responses. 

  113. Training Day says:

    @GH Graham
    “that this fight for Scotland’s future is actually little to do with national economics but almost everything to do with saving the political & financial lives of those Scottish Unionists entirely dependent on Westminster.”
    Yesterday’s ennobling of Goldie, Purvis and the Labour party donor amply demonstrates your point.

  114. rabb says:

    I have a soda stream with cola concentrate. Blair could have all the cola he wants during the debate. Could you offer that as a sweetner Rev?
    Failing that  we could look at some kind of  rudimentry system of rope and pulleys like they had in the film Weekend at Blairs (Sorry Bernies).
     
    I’m sure a dummy will provide more of a challenge to the Yes candidate than Bliar anyway.
     

  115. Edward Barbour says:

    Well Better Together are getting their money’s worth then! Reading the tweet and the e-mail, he really does come across as a piece of work. I would describe him as an anally retentive overbearing twat. No doubt he will report that to the press as an attack on him by nat scum. Hopefully he will quote in full, not expecting him though to make available his tweet and e-mail.
     

  116. pmcrek says:

    Encouraging though, this indicates all thats left in Better Together is a standard rhetoric response bot.

  117. Robert Kerr says:

    @G H Graham. and Southernscot. 
    Indeed always “follow the money” or on a higher plane “cui bono?”
    Or to quote ms Rice-Davies “he would say that. Wouldn’t he?”
    Hail Alba

  118. Juteman says:

    He doesn’t look well. Maybe the pressure of being Londons man in Scotlandshire is getting to him?
    It can’t be nice being a paid mercenary in a hostile country.

  119. Embradon says:

    What a nice, charming articulate fellow. Sounds like an trainee from the Ian Davidson school of charm.

  120. Red squirrel says:

    Nasty but laughably unprofessional response – deserves quoting at every opportunity to show up these idiots for what they are.
    Keep up the good work.

  121. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Simon – Thanks for your input. There is no doubt that Sophie S. would be an impartial host to a high profile debate between Yes/No protagonists. Air time here is freely available for RT.com as you know but when Scotlands people are being brainwashed by a totally biased BBC to ‘do not think, do as you are told’ daily broadcasts then it is incumbent on truth seekers to ask for help.
    I am not sure what the viewing figures would be but I have noticed a significant creep towards RT.com and Al Jeezera for news reporting. To answer your question about the BBC reporting the ‘horror of it’………they would have no choice and if they did not report  then it would be obvious to all that the State controls the TV waves.
    Backed into a corner.
     

  122. Marcia says:

    Do we have to club together for a laptop?
    What we want now is an independent or should I say a neutral person to make arrangements for an honest debate (without conditions) between the Chairs of the rival organisation.If he refuses that then we can say that BT are scared of a debate.

  123. An Duine Gruamach says:

    Project Fearties. 

  124. scottish_skier says:

    That’s the response of an extremely stressed and angry man.

    I thought things were going well for BT and the referendum was all wrapped up?
     

  125. Angus McPhee says:

    Albert Herring : You can get an adaptor. Maplins is your best bet.

  126. dmw42 says:

    If this chap was inadvertently to spontaneously combust, the needs of a well inebriated fellow would not induce me to impede.
     
    I don’t do esoteric, but I can be polite.

  127. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Perhaps a wee bit of subterfuge might be needed here.
    I wonder if how Sophie S. at RT would like to approach both Blair Jenkins and Blair “I’ll curse and swear at you if I want to” McDougall with the same offer as Rev Stu made. More over would that very polite Mt McDougall respond to her offer of a debate with the same level of bile as he has responded to Stu or would it be worse because she is a FOREIGNER! 😆

  128. McDougall was quite an odd fellow
    “Red, white and blue’s best,” he would bellow
    But debate he turned down
    Cos his trousers were brown
    And the rest of him really quite yellow.

  129. rabb says:

    I’m sure i read somewhere that the Scottish Sun had a neutral stance and would take either side to task where they were taking the piss.
     
    Come on then Scottish Sun; show us what you’ve got!

  130. Alastair wright says:

    Oh no! We’ve been hoodwinked, we all thought project fear was about frightening the citizens  of Scotland but it was really just a cover designed to hide the state of mind at Better Together.

  131. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Nice idea rabb I’ve just tweeted them a link to this page, wonder if they’ll contact Stu for further info. 😆

  132. Albert Herring says:

    o/t Just completed an interesting indy poll on Panelbase, featuring space monsters. Was it ours?

  133. jim mitchell says:

    Now we know the real reason the called it project fear!

  134. HandandShrimp says:

    Given the way they delete and bar people from Better Together I don’t think they do discussion or debate. This is the same Labour crowd that obsessed over ID cards and had a hand in letting the NSA walk all over emails and communications. These are not good people. However, that doesn’t need to be said. The reply from McDougall says everything anyone could need to know.

  135. HandandShrimp says:

    PS
     
    Esoteric? What the fuck is he doing, channelling Rasputin? 

  136. Macart says:

    Naw, looked at it from several angles and it still looks like a duck out tae me. Neither grace, nor diplomacy, just chuck and run. Not unexpected from Mr McDougall, but he was given every chance. Shame, I would so have liked to see Dennis wipe the floor with BT regardless of their choice of representative.

  137. muttley79 says:

    @Jeanie
     
    Oh, I suspect Sophie would generate all kinds of interest
     
    Who is Sophie?
     

  138. cjmasta says:

    Arrogant yes, scared, yes. Obvious to all that what the better together folks fear the most is the debate which they should be 50% of. They’d much rather rely on the press to do their work for them. I think after the Sturgeon/Moore fiasco they will be a very shy lot indeed unless it means popping their heads up from time to time to criticize the other side then back to the bunker.

  139. Jeannie says:

    @Muttley 79
     
    She’s a reporter/presenter on Russia Today and seems quite competent.  I’m sure the guys will fill you in on her other attributes 🙂

  140. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Mutley79 – Aye Jeannie, the balls in your court. 🙂
     

  141. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Just completed an interesting indy poll on Panelbase, featuring space monsters. Was it ours?”

    Sshh! 😉

    (Glad you found it interesting, though.)

  142. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “McDougall was quite an odd fellow
    “Red, white and blue’s best,” he would bellow
    But debate he turned down
    Cos his trousers were brown
    And the rest of him really quite yellow.”

    I don’t normally approve of poetry, but I’m making an exception for that 😀

  143. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “In all honesty, from the look of his picture above, he does look like a bit of a loose cannon with a short fuse waiting to blow.”

    As we’ve seen on TV on a few occasions, Blair’s fine when he’s reciting his nice pre-prepared script, but as soon as he has to think on his feet he gets very snippy very fast. Whereas Darling looks on the point of a major strop from the word go. I doubt either of them could handle a proper extended debate.

    After all, if they COULD, why wouldn’t they let us spend our own money on providing them with an opportunity to humiliate us?

  144. Peter says:

    The picture at the top reminds me of a movie title with Simon Pegg, I think it was something to do with running…
    O/T but here on hol in Mexico I have escaped the whole royal brat thing although BBC Latinoamerica is pushing the  Royalty thing, am doing my best to let them know that we do not all think the sun shines out of the royal erse

  145. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Jeannie and Mutley79 – Oh Jeannie how could you? Mutley79 asked a good Q. and I will answer it. If you do a search you will find many links about Sophie S and her recent RT.com interview with FM Salmond up in the Shetland Islands.
    If you do some further research you will find out more about Sophie S. and her ‘credentials’ as opposed to her ‘attributes’ [I am not taking the bait Jeannie :-)]
    Now if Bernard Ponsonby was available for said host of the inevitable debate I would be just as happy and to appease Jeannie my BP would be lower. However I have to confess I did tweet Sophie and got a smiley response. OMG…..rushing to the medicine cabinet now. 🙂

  146. Albert Herring says:

    “Sshh!”
     
    I think I got them all correct 😉

  147. cm says:

    Oh the irony.
    How can “Better Together” be better with this guy as “Campaign Director”?

  148. velofello says:

    Remind us Rev, how many visit this site, and so will be aware of Blair McDougal’s intemperate response.And then there is the spread onto Facebook.Seems like inverse politcking by Fearty Blair.
    I’m sure you will be devising a suitable eXoteric response  to Fearty McDougal, he really has set himself up for ridicule.
     

  149. muttley79 says:

    I thought it was Polly Boiko that you meant Jeanie.

  150. Patrick Roden says:

    This response must be posted far and wide, especially for women!
     
    Women are a key voting group at the moment and the trend if towards a lot of them to be edging towards a yes vote, this kind of nastiness will not play well with them and will put a lot of women off the organisation he represents.
     
    Women for Independence might be interested.

  151. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Can you two no get a room somewhere?
     
    lascivious smiley thingy

  152. Shinty says:

    If there are no takers from the no camp, couldn’t we go ahead anyhow and have a big screen rolling with all their speeches etc. and the panel can pull them apart one by one.
    Of course, first you would need to explain to the audience that BT refused to attend, alternatively, just a good panel, Business for Scotland, Labour for Indy, Greens, SSP etc. with audience questions.

  153. HandandShrimp says:

    Time to get the bucket of lard on the chair again 🙂

  154. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Mr Blobby?

  155. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Just taken your suggestion Patrick and I’ve tweeted them a link to this story. I hope they can take it and pass it on to their followers. I think this atrocious attitude by McDougall will be spread far and wide pretty soon. 😆

  156. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    National Collective have a good take on Blair McD
     
    http://nationalcollective.com/2013/07/28/the-blair-fear-project/

  157. Frazer Allan Whyte says:

    Perhaps the “spoke” in the spokesman title has nothing to do with “speak” but is an actual spoke as in what joins the rim to the hub of the wheel. As such its only function is to regulate spin which would – esoterically no doubt – explain that while he talks and squawks he apparently has nothing to say.
     

  158. Jeannie says:

    @Archie (not Erchie)
     
    Yeah – “credentials” – that’s the word I meant!

  159. Jeannie says:

    @Muttley
     
    Polly Boiko also has nice credentials.

  160. rabb says:

    Is it just me or does that picture of Blair look like something has just withdrawn from it.

    A right honorable member perhaps?

  161. BeamMeUpScotty says:

    When your case is entirely based on propaganda,debate is out of the question.

  162. a supporter says:

    Lianachan at 1;52 pm

    “What an appalling response.  You can feel the arrogance and hatred just dripping from it.”
    Not arrogance. Fear! YES people need to start using their words more carefully.

  163. Dal Riata says:

    Mc Dougal’s response is typical of old-school British Unionists. They don’t do debate. They shout and bluster in people’s faces and never consider the argument/s of the other side.
     
    Think Thatcher at her shrieking best/worst, Paisley when he was in his ‘prime’, Farage when questioned ?about his Edinburgh ‘trip’, Orange Order spokespeople, EDL spokespeople, any representatives of Loyalist organisations, etc.
     
     
    For them, it is only about themselves and their group – and any questioning or dissent is looked upon with ill-feeling and disproportionate anger and rage. 
     
    It is the arrogance of entitlement to power and influence in a symbiotic relationship with the odiousness of the UK class-system – an ugly, unrestrained parasitical beast.

  164. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Don’t hold back now, let is all come out.
     
    Superb!

  165. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Remind us Rev, how many visit this site”

    In the last month, about 60,000 uniques. Wednesday and Thursday were the biggest two days of all time, with over 130,000 page views across the two days, and today’s already at 45,000 or so.

  166. Colin Duffy says:

    OMFG, there`s now an engineered boy band called Union J. No joke! Wonder what flag they`ll be pushing into kids faces at every opportunity.

  167. Shinty says:

    Dal Riata – spot on.

  168. The Man in the Jar says:

    Fear and Loathing in Blythswood Square!

  169. scottish_skier says:

    Not arrogance. Fear! 

    Arrogance comes from an underlying lack of personal confidence. Confident people are not arrogant; they have no need to be.

    Arrogance yes, but considerable fear and doubt is there too; the latter concerning the cause being fought for as much as any doubt over personal ability to undertake the allotted role. Combined these two however and considerable stress is the result. Angry outbursts, lies, denial in the face of the obvious truth, run away whenever possible etc are all typical of such a mindset.

    I’m not sure how much longer some on the BT team can keep it up. Must be incredibly hard to keep going. Negativity destroys those charged with promoting it more than those on the receiving end in the long term for the latter can turn away from it. Hope always overcomes fear.

  170. EdinScot says:

    Apologies if already been said as not had chance to read all the comments but suck it  up Blain McDougall, youve been framed all by yourself.  Its brilliant to watch the bittter lot imploding big style.  His response shows whats in store for Scotland should they be folly enough to vote no.  Nice one Rev.

  171. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    SS
    Yes.
    I think we start a book on when the dam will burst and which manner?
    An implosion of a NO Spin Liar
    A defection of a top table No member.
    A resignation or sacking of a high heid yin in the No camp
    Complete implosion and effective capitulation of the No campaign.
     
    I am like SS in that I think there is already a deal quietly negotiated between AS and DC. Whyever would he or one of his minions drop smelly things into the MSM the same day that the NO campaign are trying to make another major release. It doesn’t make sense to shit in your own nest, unless———

  172. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Colin Duffy-
     
    A boy band called Union J? 
     
    Oh good, just what we need.  If only they would all go in the One Direction i.e. to the North Pole.
     
    Anyway, you’ll no doubt remember the hysteria over Take That. There was a Glasgow band created in response called Take That, Ya Bastard! 

  173. jamie frame says:

    “hateful output” What?!  Seems like a defence mechanism to me. Better together have a habit of placing their negative traits on others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
    I LOVE the idea of organising public debates where both sides are invited and only the YES camp show up. That would be hard for people to ignore.

  174. Angus McPhee says:

    There was also  Take That Aff, played in the halt once,

  175. Peter says:

    I just had a look at the BT Facebook page, what a lot of ignorant misinformed rubbish from the Unionist side, a few plucky pro Independence posters but I could not stomach the negativity and bile. I feel all dirty just looking at the page…

  176. Jon D says:

    New boy knocking on the door here. Inspiring stuff you are doing here folks –  and can’t help myself but be part of it.
    Discussion currently going on within Edinburgh in relation to swamping BT with invitations from Yes groups for their attendance at all public events and engage with us. More formal requests for them, subsequently, to be present at library, church hall, community centre debates, Q&A sessions etc where the truth will out. As has been said already, their presence will be apparent by their deafening silence.
    Early days but this methodology, especially if others can roll this out Scotland-wide, especially in logging their refusals, could prove to be very fruitful.
    Will keep you informed from here
    Slainte.

  177. Breastplate says:

    I remember watching an interview with Leonard McCoy explaining that while playing the role of Spock where he had to suppress his emotions, he would go home after filming and burst into uncontrollable tears or hysterical laughing.
    It got me wondering what Blair McDougall gets up to after a hard day of telling nonstop lies.

  178. The Rough Bounds says:

    My goodness, what a picture. ‘Duh, Doh, Duh! Um! Gee, I dunno.’

  179. Robert Kerr says:

    I posted before, Sophie (Sophico) Sheveardnaze is the grand-daughter of Eduard Shevardnaze who was soviet foreign minister who was eventually prime minister of Georgia. She knows about independence. She is a Georgian.

    Google if you will. Wiki is good enough. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Shevardnadze
    That she was despatched from Moscow to Shetland to interview Alexander Salmond should ring alarm bells in Whitehall. This is still part of the Imperial Game. 
    This interest also offers some protection for Alex. They won’t try anything silly now. 
    Hail Alba

  180. HandandShrimp says:

    Peter
     
    The plucky Yes supporters won’t be there tomorrow nor will their posts. The lying cowards on that site delete all dissent and ban the posters. Their bilge cannot stand the light of scrutiny so they prefer not to be questioned. The No to Scotland types like to call people names and are fond of comparing Salmond to dictators for example Sarwar’s comments in Westminster but Darling and McDougall and their Project Fear are the closest thing we have to a Mugabe. 

  181. Piemonteis says:

    Robert Kerr:
     
    I’m not sure being Shevardnadze’s granddaughter makes Sophie somebody who would support Scottish independence. Eduard Shevardnadze was in fact anti-nationalist himself and being Head of Foreign Affairs in the USSR would probably make him more like Alistair Darling than Alex Salmond. He was also strongly against nationalist movements in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
     
    Likewise, his Georgian granddaughter working as the anchor of an important Russian propaganda station isn’t exactly proof of her “nationalist” credentials.
     
    If she, or anyone at Russia Today, is showing a positive stance towards Scottish Independence, I sincerely doubt it’s due to deep-seated democratic values and instead more to do with the global interests of Russia.
     
    Having said that, however, if it helps the cause, I’m all for it! 

  182. The Man in the Jar says:

    I agree with scottish-skier in his post at 8: 17 that the stress on the folk at BT must be taking its toll by now. The inner turmoil must be huge. Imagine lying every single day pushing an agenda that you know will lead to untold misery for your fellow countrymen fellow humans even but you are committed to regardless of your personal feelings.
    Could Lammont be suffering from stress? Is that why we see so very little of “The Phantom Menace” these days? Who will council the Counsellors? Who cares?

  183. HandandShrimp says:

    Piemonteis
     
    It was ever thus, it is much easier to espouse democratic ideals abroad than it is at home. Darling and McDougall are probably all for other countries like Southern Sudan being independent…it is just at home they cannot thole it. So yes, let us embrace the support when it is there, particularly when it is a media outlet that is widely available in the UK.

  184. gfaetheblock says:

     There is a good bit of bile on this thread aim at Blair, often this campaign feels like a race to the bottom.  We’re not terrible, you are. 

  185. CameronB says:

    As bile acts to some extent as a surfactant, helping to emulsify the fats in food, perhaps we should donate as much bile as we can produce. Would it be nasty to suggest the Blair McDonald looks rather well fed?
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-pride-of-britain/

  186. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Breastplate (9.33)
    Yep – the whole experience clearly left its mark on Nimoy:
    http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lcars/images/iamnot.jpg
    But wait…what’s this?
    http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0786889101.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

  187. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Tom Hogg-
     
    Ha! Brilliant. Let’s see them try and change that.

  188. CameronB says:

    @ Tom Hogg
    Well done. Let’s just see if a perfectly neutral statement of fact is allowed to remain.

  189. Vronsky says:

    Nimoy tried to have a serious career on stage after Star Trek.  Didn’t work out, after he delivered this line:
     
    To be or not to be
    That is illogical, captain…

  190. Piemonteis says:

    Handandshrimp:
     
    I totally accept your point about democracy being easier to promote away from home. Kosovo is a case in point of the UK pushing something they would be so eager to support if it was happening in Cornwall, for example. And as things stand, with the pro-independence media blackout, we can’t afford to pick and choose when it comes to accepting positive coverage.
     
    However, there also needs to be a certain degree of restraint in not getting into bed with anyone who buys us a drink. I’m not trying to say that if we side with RT we’ll soon have Russian nuclear missiles at Faslane instead of UK ones, and in fact I’d rather we had RT on our side than a similar US station, but still, let’s not forget it’s a station funded by the Russian government and in the interests of the Russian State, and we more than anyone should be wary of its agendas.

  191. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Just had a wee read of Wiki’s piece about Better Together. Great to see this site gets not one but TWO mentions. Would calling them mentions with honours be going too far? 😆
    One thing I did notice though was that our previous Westminster illustrious leader, a certain Gordon Brown, gets no mention. His anti independence group, united with Labour, does get a mention but his name amazing is no where to be seen yet the co-ordinator of this group, Anas Sarwart does get a mention. I’m thinking that Gordon Brown is so distrusted, even by Wikipedia, that his name is barred from the Better Together article on their site. 😆

  192. ianbrotherhood says:

    @Vronsky-
     
    I can only remember Nimoy appearing in one non-Spock role, and that was in ‘Murder She Wrote’. He was very good, so far as I can remember, but every facial movement seemed extraordinary. And he had a beard. And, worst of all, it really was ‘Murder She Wrote’ – how can anyone compete with Angela Lansbury? (‘Don’t look at her eyes Spock, I mean, Lenny!‘)

  193. Brian Ritchie says:

    I can only remember Nimoy appearing in one non-Spock role
    Brave New World, Invasion of the Body snatchers. 😉
     

  194. Firestarter says:

    I know its late ………. but is it TOO late ………… for a caption competition on the Blair McD photo at the top of the article??

  195. ianbrotherhood says:

    Stumbled across this:
     
    ‘Nation-states are not biological entities; they are, to use the cliché, ‘imagined communities’. This, as the starting point, should give you some idea about how easily the concept of the state and its interest can be problematised. Democratic states garner the loyalties of their people through a sense of sharing and participation, through constitutionalism. In comparison, totalitarian and oppressive states use fear to keep the flock together. History shows that the latter break up at some point. No amount of oppression can keep the people chained; it is only a matter of time. Instead, oppression begets violence and deep turmoil. The problem with oppression is thus that it attracts what it sets out to avoid. Therein lies both the irony and the paradox.
    Allied with this point is the idea of civilian supremacy, the fact that while the state becomes overarching, those representing it at any point of time have to operate on the basis of accepted and acceptable rules of the game. They are all accountable through two levels of agency. The first and primary level of agency is granted by the people through elections to their representatives; the second, a much more restrictive level of agency, is accorded by the peoples’ representatives to bureaucratic institutions, including the military and its intelligence agencies.’
     
    Source: http://tribune.com.pk/story/184106/an-open-letter-to-general-pasha/

  196. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Apologies for being O/T, sort of.
    Apparently the Better Together gang are now going to launch its new “Patriot” system, heaven forbid! This “new” system is based on information from Experian the credit agency as well as other sources and it will allow Better Together to break the population of Scotland down into forty, yes you read right FORTY, different tribes. Well obviously I just have to ask, what tribe are you? 😆
     
    Fear not though my stout independence fellows because once we have all been tribed up by Better Together we will be “linked” up with Better Together “activists” of similar ages and social media friends. Oh I can’t wait to see who they link me up with, whoever it is better have the constitution of an ox for all the s***e that will be flowing their way, all in the interests of gaining more information on WHY we are better together you understand. 😆
     
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-23379615

  197. Chic McGregor says:

    Cross Talk with Peter Lavelle is the most appropriate RT slot for debate topics.  Peter might not be as pretty but he does a good job of making sure everyone gets a fair crack of the whip.

  198. Marker Post says:

    Given that Alistair Darling has only spoken in 7 debates in the last year [in House of Commons], you have to laugh at the irony of:
     
    “Email me updates on Alistair Darling’s activities (no more than once per day)”.
     

  199. Patrick Roden says:

    Sorry but O/T.
    Just posted this on the Herald comment section re: the new Labour Lord.
    Not sure if the mods will let is pass, but they have definitely become more lenient recently.
     
    “I can’t help but think back to a number of articles that exposed some very strange practices, between Sir Willie and the Labour Party in Glasgow.
    I seem to recall that in one ‘contract’ Sir Willies company won a contract to supply equipment to Glasgow council, in spite of other companies offering to supply the same equipment cheaper.
    Perhaps some Glaswegians on here will be able to provide some details.
    I hope the Herald will bring out an article about his past dealings with Glasgow Labour, because now that he is a lord, it will be a nationwide story.
    It’s a crying shame that after her recent disappearance, this was the thing that got Johann Lamont Commenting again. “

  200. john king says:

    mibbies if he said it in a kinda conspiratorial manner, wouldn’t that be described as esoteric?
    Oh he’s our mole!
    well bugger me :0

  201. Peter says:

    You debate a subject.
    You debate with another person.  
    You are not American.
    Please stop it.
     

  202. Gordon Bain says:

    @ Max
    Baxter Park you say. I shall be there!

  203. JLT says:

    Rev,
    I suppose having any answer from them is a good thing (and in typical fashion, the answer is ‘No’, because ‘No’ person from the ‘No’ team wants to actually debate). We now know where they really stand.
    I suppose you could let the ‘Yes’ team know what McDougall and Co have said. It’s ammunition for the ‘Yes’ team. Shout it out (if they can) to the media and let them know that the ‘No’ team is bricking it when it comes to having a debate.
    In some ways, this does offer you a couple of lines of attack. As said, one, is to let the ‘Yes’ team know everything by forwarding on all correspondence from the No team.
    And two, keep badgering them until they either explode with frustration, or they give in and finally do the thing that everybody wants …give a proper debate.
    They can wish for Salmond v Darling as much as they want. Even then, I think Darling would squirm his way out of it. Salmond would crush him. For every lie that Darling told, Salmond would easily play the lie along, twisting it and turning it, until Darling is in knots with his own answers.
    Who knows …maybe we will get our wish …Salmond v Cameron, and we all know deep down that it would be two ‘Yes’ men taking to the stage!

  204. Semus says:

    I really don’t understand why you are all getting annoyed with this balloon. He is what I have know all my life as my “better” I remember the likes of them when as a wee poor boy.I sat on the kerb or top deck of tram and watched the big cars and the hooray Henries, and knew I lived in a United Midden.
    And they loved my poverty, and they love the poverty they demand of our young people. This is a nasty man from a nasty party,in fact any party.Ignore him.
     

  205. Grendel says:

    Could you have found a LESS flattering picture of him? I don’t think so.

  206. JLT says:

    Arbroath 1320
    ‘Apparently the Better Together gang are now going to launch its new “Patriot” system’ and ‘Well obviously I just have to ask, what tribe are you?’
    ——————
    Hmmm….
    Can’t see anything on line, but who knows with that mob!
    But, if we are talking the literary sense that a tribe is a race …well then…my hereditary bloodlines are thus…
    My surname is Norman, my Mother’s maiden name was Russian (though the name came originally from Scotland), one of my grans came from the North-NE of Scotland, so she’ll be a Pict-Viking, and my other gran came from the Borders, so that will make me a Boernician-Anglo.
    So …I’m a Viking-Slavic-Anglo-Celt …HEY!!! – I’M IN EVERYBODY’S TRIBE! SWEEEEET! I think I just ticked the box of every race in Europe!
     
    But seriously, what new inane drivel is this from the ‘No’ mob. Tribe …whit tribe? This is a straight two horse race. Your either Yes or No. What the **** are they talking about?
    Are we breaking folk down into
    1. Are you Orange?
    2. Do you support Rangers?
    3. Do you belong to the SDL?
    4. Did you go to a Private School?
    5. Have you served in the British Army?
    etc
     
    And Patriot …do the ‘No’ mob actually have a clue as to what they are saying here? Do they have anybody in that room that understands History?
    ‘A Patriot’ is an American terminology to describe someone who stands up to protect their country from the advancements of colonialism and subjugation from a larger and more aggressive power. So ….EH!!!! Which numpty thought this one up without thinking about it. The word ‘Patriot’ was used to describe an American who stands up against British expansionism and control. So ….EH!!!!
    I must admit, I’m curious to see this new line of attack from the ‘No’ mob. Get ready to fall about the place with laughter….
     

  207. JLT says:

    Hee hee hee …bet McDougall had wished he had stayed away from Bathgate that night. Ever since that posting on Youtube, his life has become a merry hell….

  208. panda paws says:

    @Bugger the Panda (via Munguins)
     
    Are you going too?
     
     

  209. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    where to?
     
    Glasgow or ?
     

  210. heraldnomore says:

    O/Tish – but news of an old friend….
     
    Now I don’t expect our favourite man of the cloth to have the magazine of the Humanist Society of Scotland on his reading list, but you never know, if Richard Holloway…..
    Anyway the HSS don’t take a view on Independence, but they are more than happy to gave column inches to each side.  So the Spring issue had this excellent interview with Ian Dommett of YS
    :http://content.yudu.com/Library/A2897y/HumanitieSpring2013/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.humanism-scotland.org.uk%2Fcontent%2Fmagazine%2F
    and promised to follow it up with the views of BT.  The summer issue has just arrived.  As some have found getting a response from BT can be less than straight-forward. It took them a while but eventually they produced an old friend of WoS, Mr D Hotershall, to give his sage words.
    It’s not available online yet, but I’ll post in due course.  In very short summary, according to DH – London good; amazon/google bad – better placed to take on global capitalism together.  Yeah, OK Dunc, if you say so.
    “This isn’t the time to create a new nation state…. you get more done when you work together…”  I’m trying hard to think when London ever worked together WITH Scotland, rather than just draining the very lifeblood from her.
     
     

  211. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Any chance you could take us a photo or scan?

  212. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Robert Kerr and others on the RT.com thread – Did the RT broadcast team just happen to be in Lerwick by chance on the very day that AS visited there? Had one of RT.com’s presenters [Sophie S] and her crew been diverted to Sumburgh Aiport on a transatlantic flight? Were the researched interview questions and the subsequent answers from AS written on a fag packet on the spur of the moment?
    IMO this was a very clever move by AS to either accept a request by RT.com or to initiate the interview in the first place. Who asked who? whom? in the first place?
    It will be interesting to see if RT.com transmit coverage of the Yes Independence March in Edinburgh next month. I doubt the BBC will give it much air time.

  213. Shinty says:

    @ Grendel
    Could you have found a LESS flattering picture of him? I don’t think so.

    ‘You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig’

    Blair McDougall’s ugliness is from the inside, no amount of photo editing is going to change that.
     

  214. HandandShrimp says:

    Listened to McCrone, Ronald McDonald (not that one) and George Kerevan this morning on the radio. It was a civilised debate and actually pretty balanced. It struck me that, in comparison with the Better Together relentlessly negative spin on every facet of human existence, it was also intelligent. 
     
    All parties in the above debate agreed that Scotland was one of the wealthiest parts of the UK and could be a more than viable country. Ronald did try the “oil is volatile what about the banking crisis” shtick but it was pretty half hearted and the presenter pressed him on the current success of Iceland in recovering. His response being yes they are doing well but it wasn’t very nice when it happened. (It wasn’t very nice when it happened here either.)
     
    They all also agreed that if we vote No Whitehall could very easily say “case closed” and forget about Scotland (McCrone raised this as a real possibility due to the failure of the No camp to articulate a Devo Max option). So all in perhaps we have simply saved ourselves from a potential nasty bout of brain haemorrhaging by listening to people like McDougall spout their “we are all doomed rubbish”.
     
    McCrone refused to say which way he is voting and said his book on Scottish economics is balanced, giving fair hearing to both arguments. This amounts to a “withering attack on Salmond” according to BT’s Facebook page which shows how rooted in reality they are. I can’t think they would have found much comfort in today’s show but once it has been through their propaganda spin they will no doubt have George fully behind Better Together too. 😉
     
    George did say he took David’s neutrality with a pinch of salt but that he had lot of time for his work (like I said, pretty civilised).

  215. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    HandandShrimp
     
    Err, who is David?

    Was it David McCrone and not Gavin?

    Out of the UK am I.

  216. HandandShrimp says:

    Yes, Gavin…I hadn’t had my morning infusion of caffeine when I typed.
     
    Not sure where David came from /\(oO)/\

  217. tartanfever says:

    Thanks for that H&S.
    Getting fed up with this ‘volatility’ oil rubbish and the banks. About time someone gave them hell over it, along the lines of:
     
    ‘what would you prefer ? –  a proven industry (oil) making up 17.5% of Scottish output, or 10% of the complete busted flush that is banking that makes up UK output. 

    ‘As for the banking crisis bail outs – our banks would have struggled if it wasn’t for the American banks and governments coming in with billions to rescue them in emergency loans.’

    And then we should get on the front foot with the national debt.

    “So with the national debt now hitting £1.5T and increasing by £9bn a month because Westminster is incapable of balancing the budget unlike Holyrood which works to a fixed budget. Divided between the population that works out at £20,000 for every man, woman and child in the land. How do Westminster and the unionist parties plan to repay this ? How long will it take to re-pay ? How many generations will be forced into poverty because of this horrendous burden ?

  218. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    There is an economist called David McCrone though.

  219. HandandShrimp says:

    BtP
     
    So there is, I’m not totally addled of the brain then. It was definitely Gavin though he of the 70s report and new book fame.

  220. Iain says:

    @heraldnomore
    ‘“This isn’t the time to create a new nation state…. you get more done when you work together…”
     
    When DH and his ilk say things like this, I’m always itching for someone to ask them when the right time would be. It’d be entertaining to see the vast amounts of bullshit and obfuscation they’d use to avoid saying never.

  221. heraldnomore says:

    Re HSS/DH article.
    I’ll attach some sort of scan to an email, which should at least read Rev Stu read it, and take from it what he can.
     
     

  222. HandandShrimp says:

    Iain
     
    As far as that goes I think the right time for them would be when the last Scot has been clubbed to death with the last copy of Braveheart (to steal a notable line from Tom Nairn.)

  223. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Could you have found a LESS flattering picture of him? I don’t think so.”

    You haven’t seen any of our previous posts about him, then?

    😀

  224. Ken Johnston says:

    O/T Hi all and Rev.
     I was watching Newsnight (England) last night, Fri. 2nd and a piece came on,  about the Conservatives hiring Jim Messina for the 2015 election. possibly you have already seen something about it.
    Inside the piece, they mentioned that Messina had said, in relation to the Republicans, that
    “We have the maths, they have the myths” Which I think neatly encapsulates us.
    Change that to “YES Scotland have the maths, Project Fear have the myths.” Or maybe ‘has the’
    This is the guy who got the metadata software project I believe the SNP have the use of, working.
    I’m going to steal that line, or rather the amended one. Put that on as a header, Rev.
    I copied to Kevin Pringle, SNP

  225. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Following the Red Comyn and the Black Douglas into the pages of Scottish history is the Yellow McDougall

  226. Holebender says:

    The BBC World Service had a show on about the “UK” oil industry this morning, focussed mainly on Aberdeen. Oil Exec after Oil Exec was interviewed and asked about the effects of the referendum and volatile prices. They all pointed out that they work with many different governments and one more or less won’t matter, and that investment decisions are made years before any payback. It seems that an oil company, 100% dependent on volatile oil prices, can do pretty well so why can’t a country which is, say, 10% dependent on those same prices?

  227. JLT says:

    Dave McEwan Hill says:
    3 August, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Following the Red Comyn and the Black Douglas into the pages of Scottish history is the Yellow McDougall
    ——————
    Ha ha ha ….like it!

  228. Even John Ballioll was not as empty a ‘Toom Tabbard’ as McDougall …. and we know how Ballioll is viewed by history … McDougall’s historical counter part would be more suitably be Sir John de Menteith, betrayer of Wallace …. one of many ‘I only did it for Scotland’s good’ weasel excuses.

  229. HandandShrimp says:

    McDougall is doing it for Labour…full stop. Scotland North Britain doesn’t get a look in.

  230. Dave McG says:

    Could it that by avoiding debate they avoid exposing the weakness of their arguments and the paucity of their claims whilst disseminating black propaganda, deceit and untruths as the attempt to exert their continued rule over the rebellious northern hordes I am minded of verse two of the English Anthem, sums up British Colonial rule 

    O Lord our God arise, Scatter her enemies, And make them fall: Confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks, On Thee our hopes we fix: God save us all. 

    Or for a little fun the earlier version 

    Lord, grant that Marshal Wade, May by thy mighty aid, Victory bring. May he sedition hush, and like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush, God save the King. 

    Actually I would have no personal objection to the Queen continuing, preferably as ER1

  231. Ken Johnston says:

    Just a thought,Rev
    In addition to Twitter, emails and the phone, how about an invitation being Hand-delivered to 5 Blythswood Sq.
    Compose it, send it up (to me maybe), print it on heavy paper, big envelope and all I need is my trusty travel card into town. be well dressed, suit, shirt, tie. See if the great man is in. Of course you would need a photographer, or two, as well. Or a videographer as they call the police because of harassment by those cyberbullies.
     
     

  232. redcliffe62 says:

    Negativity works. Blair Jenkins is a nice guy and that does not get a message across. He needs to ask tough questions and demand tough answers. So far he has abysmally failed.
    E.g press releases to
    1/ Note to Cameron saying “I am the Head of yes campaign so speak to your chappie and tell me when the debate with him is on.”
    2/ McDougall saying he is scared of a debate as he has nothing positive to say, but as head of NO the public demands it so name time and place and I will be there. Put up or shut up McDougall.
    3/ Release to Cameron and Salmond saying as leaders of their governments they need to sit down and put their differences apart and tell Scots why tax, oil revenues, defence and weapons of mass destruction being run by Tories who are elected in England is a good thing for Scotland from 2014. Add that if Cameron or his UK government does not want to play a role in the referendum that is acceptable, but from now until Sep 2014 they cannot say a peep for the NO campaign or that hypocrisy will be laughed at as he is either in it or he is not. put up or shut up, we are waiting whilst you are scared to tell Scots why you are abetter leader than Salmond (or any other Scot) ongoing.

    Unfortunately Jenkins is too nice but the campaign needs to make NO uncomfortable and at present with MSM support there is little to worry about from a press perspective.

  233. David McEwan Hill says:

    Redcliffe62
     
    Nonsense. You obviously don’t know how this works Whatever tit says whatever on behalf of Better Together and it gets spread all over the media and the newspapers.
    YES spokesman makes very coherent and constructive statement and it is completely ignored



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