The less-deserving pro-independence website

Wings Over Scotland


The Northumberland Times

Posted on November 22, 2013 by

You may have read today that “Better Together” is planning a major “newspaper-style” leaflet drive for the release of the White Paper next week. Thanks to our ever-alert spies in the No camp, we’ve managed to secure a leaked copy of the text. You can read it below.

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THE NORTHUMBERLAND TIMES: 19 September 2034.

It’s now 20 years since Scotland voted for independence and ripped apart the United Kingdom (the most successful union in 300 years). In 2016 it held the first ever election to an independent Scottish Parliament and the SNP, with leader Alex Salmond, were voted into office with an overwhelming majority.

In 2020, just before the end of its first term in office, Alex Salmond declared himself ‘Lord Protector’ of Scotland and disbanded the parliament in favour of a totalitarian dictatorship, just as Anas Sarwar had warned the day after the Yes vote. He is now referred to as ‘High Excellency’. Recently a document was found not far from the Wall, claiming to be written by (former) resident of Scotland Simon Macdonald.

“Today I’m making the journey from Glasgow to Newcastle. I’ve been looking for work for a while now as every facet Scotland’s industry (what’s left of it) has taken a succession of devastating hits. You just have to walk down the main streets of any town or city to see the effects of the Scottish Government’s disastrous economic policies.

Ever since the Corporation Tax cut of 2017 it’s been intent on pandering to the well-off and advantaged at the expense of the rest of the populace. A two-tier class system has emerged in the process; the top ten percent are prosperous, have a separate health system, education and enjoy lavish accommodation and recreation while the remaining 90% suffer in levels of poverty more reminiscent of war-torn African states than a 21st-century independent nation.

Paid employment is a thing of the past and only ever rarely available when certain projects of national importance require specific expertise or skills. The remainder of the time the populous is expected to work for food and shelter tokens which can be redeemed at the local magistrates’ office. If you haven’t worked enough or gathered enough tokens then whatever ones you do have are confiscated from you and you must fend for yourself on the streets.

There’s never enough work to go around and I’m not proud to admit I’ve been reduced to thievery on many an occasion just to stay alive. The poorer areas of the cities and towns are rife with such appalling conditions that council vans come round every two weeks to remove the dead from back alleys and motorway underpasses. The smell that used to be so overbearing you’d gag in the street. I hardly notice it any more.

I’ve heard stories from others about whole towns that have been completely deserted, every resident carrying what they can and heading for the suburbs of the cities looking for scraps or even just the promise of them. I’ve passed my fair share of cars parked at the side of the road with rubber tubes leading from the exhausts, whole families deciding to face the next world together than bear the brunt of a life confined to starvation and deprivation.

I’m not ashamed to admit the possessions left by these people have kept me alive from time to time. I’m still wearing the coat of a dead father I found in a Vauxhall Estate on an Ayrshire back road three years ago.

That was when cars still ran on the road, back when the petrol stations weren’t guarded and regulated. It was back before the Stonehouse incident, way before even Livingston. You remember all those folk who were telling us back then that the oil was running out? All those people who said the price would fluctuate and we’d be destined to an economic nightmare. We laughed at them then, we laughed and swallowed Salmond’s lies that’d we’d be awright. The oil was running out though, Darling was right about there only being 2m barrels, and that’s when the army was pulled in.

Checkpoints and searches, restricted passes and licence revocations. Christ they even kicked you out your motor if you were driving with less folk than the motor could hold. ‘Inefficient, wasters, the undeserving commuters’. Salmond’s private army was drafted in to keep the rest of us all in line. We fell for it, we fell for it all.

This was all just part of the plan to make the roads fit for only the richest. Look down any motorway or main road leading from one well-off part of town to another and you won’t see any abandoned cars. You’ll see fresh road signs, fresh paint and a whole load of lovely trees at the side of the roads obscuring the views of the tatty, poor towns and their miserable inhabitants.

Walk down those roads (if you can dodge the patrols) and you’d think we were doing grand. You’d think this independence stuff had been a success but in truth it’s all a mirage, for the benefit of visiting foreign dignitaries. Some folk are even saying that the oil didn’t run out at all, that a deal had been struck with Salmond to give it back to Westminster and screw the Scottish people.

I’m not sure if I believe that whole ‘Blacks Ops’ business but I wouldn’t put it past him. He’s sitting in his private castle now, ruling over the land like they said he would. It was okay in the beginning because we still saw him occasionally and his speech on Independence Day was inspiring; ‘A better country, a more prosperous nation for all’.

It sounded so good at the time, the street parties, the optimism. Regardless of how you voted in the referendum you were caught up in the atmosphere and the excitement. It really did feel like the early days of a better nation. How wrong we all were. It was all part of Salmond’s plan. He lured us in, he used us for his own gain and now he controls everything north of the border with a iron fist of cold indifference towards his people’s suffering.

I’m sitting in this stinking truck, crammed to the brim with folk like me making for the border. It’s a nightmare down there. They rebuilt the wall just like they said they would. It’s manned day and night. Searchlights and sniffer dogs and soldiers. They search trains and what few coaches there are still running these days.

The last of the planes left years ago and the last time one tried to make off without permission it was shot down over the Clyde. Down at the border if you don’t have the papers they send ya back and even then if you so much as cause a little fuss you’ll be carted off to a Curriculum For Excellence Education Centre and never seen again.

There was a rush on the wall a few years back, a few thousand folk trying to cross without papers, desperate to get over the wall and find some work. Not many made it back that day. I’ll make sure my head’s down when I get there.

I’ve not heard much from the other side or the rest of the world for about five years now. We don’t get television like we used to, since the BBC pulled out. The only sets that get reception are the ones in the ‘public notification points’ which are usually in the main cities or remaining productive towns.

All that’s on is that fat bastard telling us how great stuff is, how we’ve made a great go of this independence stuff and how proud he is to be Scottish. The internet – hard lines and wireless – all got cut or jammed to stop folk from speaking to the outside. Phone lines are only available to the higher-ups.

I’m looking out the tiny crack in the side of the truck now and I can see in the distance the monstrous wall approaching. A great big grey barrier stretching across the horizon. I can get past it. I’ve got the tokens and the papers and I’ve done too many bad things to get this far not to get through.

They say there’s work in Newcastle for those of us that can make it there. They say there’s a better life over that wall. Looking back at that referendum, at how it all went down, I’d do everything in my power to stop this country voting Yes. Everything they warned us about has come true. Why didn’t we just listen?”

No-one knows what has become of Simon Macdonald since this transcript was found at one of the border posts north of the wall. As it is Greater England policy to let nobody in to the country from north of the border, it is widely assumed he, and the rest of those from his train, have been taken to a CFEEC for “corrective enlightenment”.

If only the Scots had heeded our positive message and voted No.

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180 to “The Northumberland Times”

  1. Ewan MacKenzie says:

    If this is genuine I’ll eat my hat. 
     
    (Luckily, my hat is made of marzipan.)

  2. Michael Laing says:

    I presume this is a spoof or a hoax. If so, you really ought to say so.

  3. david says:

    i like it, good stuff

  4. Tattie-Boggle says:

    Sounds like a Tory Manifesto to me

  5. twenty14 says:

    oh dear oh dear oh dear – someone’s been up late watching Mad Max Movies

  6. david says:

    totally backs up the report into the future from the other day.

  7. dinnatouch says:

    This is so confusing, either we don’t get Doctor Who, or Doctor Who delivered this from the future. Which is it? We demand answers.

  8. kininvie says:

    O/T (Sorry, maybe a bit soon)
     
    Guess what: BT have been breaking the law (again)
     
    http://archive.is/Q0mEL
     
    A ‘reprimand’? WTF?

  9. Davie says:

    That cannae be richt….it wisnae in the IFS report.

  10. Stuart Black says:

    I think Kurt Russell as Snake Plissken would be good for a lead role in this.
     
    I wish this was a genuine BT thing, it would signal the absolute death of their campaign except, of course, amongst those Rangers supporters we were treated to on a previous thread. But they’d have left anyway, wouldn’t they?

  11. cav says:

    Very aptmospheric. You thought of doing a novel? 😉

  12. megsmaw06 says:

    LOL!  Very good! Reminds me of that ‘Doomsday’ film from a few years back, where Scotland is quarantined with a wall built around it.
     
    I actually had my in laws tell me the “King Alex and his castle” story last year. Except they weren’t joking.
    But what a difference a year makes! Mother in law is now a Yes voter and father in law is now a Don’t know/leaning to yes. By the time the referendum comes he’ll be a Yes for sure!  😀

  13. panda paws says:

    Brilliant and actually not much more satirical then the shite they actually do come up with.

  14. We could probably debate for hours whether this is a spoof dreamed up by Shaun Milne or whether it is actually in the Project Fear Paper. However, on close reading there is nothing in there that hasn’t been uttered by the self-styled Project Fear at one time or another – well, done Shaun for bringing it all together.

    From the Guardian article: “On Tuesday morning, as Salmond prepares for the media launch of the white paper in Glasgow, these will be handed out to commuters by hundreds of activists at nearly every major railway station, airport and ferry terminal in Scotland, from Dumfries to Shetland.”

    Given the photos of all the lonely people, I was intrigued by the “hundreds of activists” line.
    A search of the Project Fear site shows that outwith Greater Embraland and Greater Weegieland, coverage is very sparse. Their few keenies in Shetland look like they’ll be busy between Sumburgh, Holmsgarth, and the ferry terminals at either end of Yell. Bar North Berwick, Aberdeen, Elgin, Dumfries and Dundee, the rest of the country can rest unmolested.  The entire Highlands and Islands and Orkney (bar a lonely soul on Islay – The Baron Robertson of Port Ellen, perchance?) appears to be a Project Fear Free Zone and it won’t endear BT to them that BT are trumpeting  “National” coverage when that half of the country is merely discounted.

  15. Juteman says:

    Did they really ban Dr Who though?

  16. Who needs Dr Who on telly when we’ll be living in post-apocalyptic Scotland anyway? Will we be able to afford tellies?

  17. Douglas Young says:

    I regret that the leafleting referred to in Shetland by Blether Together resulted in seven postings requesting volunteers; as of tonight at 1845 not a SINGLE person has signed up.

    They have also decided to meet at Sumburgh Airport, Voe –  Sumburgh Airport is actually in…err…Sumburgh, 45 miles south.

    The problems continue as on two different dates they are at Shetland’s two bus stations.
    We only have one.

    Douglas Young
    Yes Shetland

    (I do not want to gloat but Yes Shetland has 262 followers, the Nose  69. OK we gloated a bit and if anyone would like to like our very wee page, cheers tae ye aw’ )

  18. Derick fae Yell says:

    Doomsday is a 2008 British-American science fiction thriller film written and directed by Neil Marshall. The film takes place in the future. Scotland has been quarantined because of a deadly virus. When the virus is found in London, political leaders send a team led by Major Eden Sinclair (Rhona Mitra) to Scotland to find a possible cure. Sinclair’s team runs into two types of survivors: marauders (demn pleb punk persons) and medieval knights.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_%28film%29

  19. Hetty says:

    .northumberlandgazette.co.uk/news/another-pub-bites-the-dust-amid-tough-trading-times

    Here is a story form the Northumberland Gazette today, another pub, ie business closed due to austerity measures they are so in love with down in Westminster. Its apparently ‘another North Northumberland’ pub, note ‘north’. Last time I was in Berwick it seemed pretty run down, with closed hotels etc. a friend was telling me he was in Hexham last weekend, which is actually in Northumberland and it was also not what he expected, only big franchise cafes, and a few hardware shops, not much else. These Northumbrian towns should be thriving as they once did. Northumberland is a huge county, very well off in many places, but is obviously suffering now at the hands of the tories and the rest of em, goodness knows what it will be like in 2034! 

    oh and the Duke of Northumberland is one of the richest and biggest land owners in the UK, including owning land in Scotland. have a look on wiki, fascinating indeed. 

  20. Murray McCallum says:

    The article is missing the detail that explains the mistake that Salmond ‘Lord Protector’ of Scotland made in appointing Anas Sarwar as Minister for Economic Success and Danny Alexander as Minister of Food Maximisation in a failed attempt to unite the tribes on day 2 of independence.
     
    Will the trains actually have enough seats for everyone to sit on? It is a very futuristic thought.

  21. TJenny says:

    That article reads like a Paul Johnston novel. 
    Perhaps BT are nicking PJ’s imagined ideas of a future Scotland!

  22. Pete says:

    Is this the better together white paper?

  23. handclapping says:

    The amazing thing was the way the Salmond Railways made profits after they took all the seats out so carriages could be used for any sort of cargo, whisky, livestock, whatever and then they got the contract to ship troublemakers up to the reeducation camps in the NATO free fire zone at the terminus of the new line built NW of Lairg by all those poor immigrants earning their right to leave on “community” service. Apparently their profit of £Scots 17bn is now worth £Stirling 3.40. But its grand being a pensioner on £1bn a month all the same.

  24. Gav says:

    Getting difficult to tell satire from the real deal.  I think this needs to be referred to the Truth Team for analysis.

  25. David says:

    Great dystopian near-future sci-fi! Reading this took me back to the 1970’s, and TV’s “Survivors” &  “The Changes”, Action Comic’s “Bill Savage”, and the Stranglers’ “Black and White” lp. Just two things…

    …where are the (A) mad-scientist viruses (B) invading Russian commies (C) and/or robots in rebellion? Did they all disappear into the same “black hole” as the oil and gas revenues?  

    …was/will the re-building of Hadrian’s Wall be a massive Westminster workfare programme to ensure zero unemployment in the Glorious Remnant Kingdom? 

  26. Susan says:

    bbc scotlandshire will be kicking itself!

  27. Wp says:

    Much of this sounds like the UK in 5 years if we don’t get out.

  28. scottish_skier says:

    At least the trains ran on time.

  29. Andy-B says:

    Nice one Shaun.
     
    Its uncanny how you’ve described to a T the UK today, and not a future Scotland.

  30. Stuart Black says:

    “Also implicated in the decision to appoint Flowers to a role for which he had no qualifications is former Labour MP Alistair Darling who was the head of the Treasury at the time of Flowers’ appointment.”
     
    Off topic, I know, just thought I’d fling it in. What a wretch of a man Mr Darling is…

  31. Never mind ah that, whit the people want to know is how much is a stamp?

  32. Les Wilson says:

    I wonder what the reception of this ,would have been in Newcastle, where a lot are envious of the Scottish chances of changing their lives for the better?

    I have read a few articles on the Referendum from down there, and it seems quite a lot would like to actually join us! They said that Newcastle would encourage working with us, joint ventures etc. Now we need to concentrate on Berwick on Tweed ( which may still actually ours as the English changed the line of the border, way back ), then there is Carlisle !!!  Onward !

  33. Edward says:

    I take this is made up, though its the kind of crap that Better Together would come out with

  34. Jingly Jangly says:

    Anybody the 90’s sitcom called Snakes and Ladders with Ade Edmondson and John Gordon Sinclair,  I wonder if you can get dvd’s anywhere, brilliant series.

    I did have it all videotaped but think they got dumped in a house move.

    I recall about 25 years ago a British Telecom futurologist foreseeing the haves all computer chipped living in walled cities and the great unwashed fighting for survival outside,

    Think that’s the plan they have for London!!!!

  35. Gordon Smith says:

    A neat distillation of what the bettertogether don’t think, but want everyone else to think.

  36. Thepnr says:

    Shaun you ("Tractor" - Ed). You’ve let the cat out of the bag and the hunt is on for the mole. Fortunately we have a plan B.

  37. X_Sticks says:

    @kininvie   
     
    “A second round of text messages were sent out despite Better Together and their rival campaign Yes Scotland receiving a letter from the ICO in early April 2013 warning them about the need to comply with the law.”
     
    I liked the way the Hootsman neatly makes both sides look culpable, but only one side “unlawfully pesters and annoys people with unwanted text messages”
     
    “unlawfully”, but
     
    “THE “No” campaign in the Scottish independence referendum campaign has been reprimanded”
     
    “reprimanded”
     
    Like you said, WTF?

  38. Marcia says:

    Oh dear the Information Commissioner has today rapped the BT crowd’s knuckles for sending out 300k unsolicited text earlier this year.

  39. Jingly Jangly says:

    Re my earlier post re snakes and ladders found this
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096700/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_pl
    In the future (1999), the UK is subdivided into two regions by barbed wire and border patrols. Northern Britain is cold, bleak and impoverished, while sunny South Britain is a place of relative luxury. When Lord Tewkesbury, the owner of rich conglomerate, decides his son Giles needs more real-life experience, he arranged for Giles to work under an assumed name. Unfortunately, this results in Giles being sent to North Britain to do menial labor, while previously impoverished Gavin is transferred to sunny South Britain.

  40. Les Wilson says:

    O/T Just been thumbing through this weeks Money Week mag, page 37 has ” The BEST Places to live in Britain. Ten places indicated 1-10, No1 was Reading & Bracknell, No2 Aberdeen, No3 Edinburgh.
    This is a new report from PricewaterhouseCoopers, and the think tank “Demos”.
    Strange that! considering the one earlier that had about 8 out of 10 of the worst places to live were in Scotland ! Gotta love idiots at BT !

  41. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Has anyone heard anything about the BT meeting last night in Cumbernauld?

  42. ScotFree1320 says:

    http://business.mega.mu/2013/03/12/history-mauritius-and-against-independence/
    Those opposed to the project of independence sow fear and doubt in the minds of people. After all, it is logical that people dread the future without the direction of England. Wiil free Mauritius be able to stand on its feet by itself? How will it? With what resources? Part of the population decides to leave the country to settle elsewhere. This will be the exodus to Australia mainly.

    You know, the more things change the more they stay the same! 

  43. a supporter says:

    Don’t like this sort of article. Yes it’s satire, but not of the type that is helpful for Independence. It isn’t knocking enough of the opposition.

  44. seoc says:

    If they really think that is how it will be, then these poor folk need urgent help.

  45. Kipper says:

    I see they are doing a “crowdfunding” effort for the Yes campaign too. You’ll have an idea about the stresses and pitfalls of that, Stu! Hope it goes well for them. I think they should have had more “tiers” though as the sums sort of jump up rather than have a more graduated range.

  46. Dan Watt says:

    http://bettertogether.net/blog/entry/nairn-academy-backs-better-together
     
    Does anyone know if there was ANY representation from Yes Scotland here, or is this the same as the Aberdeenshire situation where only BT were represented?
     
    Also, some comments on the Facebook post about this are calling Nairn Academy the Eton of the north? I find that somewhat hard to believe…

  47. Marian says:

    Sooner or later Westminster is going to have to recognise that their childish “Project Fear” nonsense is backfiring big time and have to ditch “Project Fear” and start talking about what a “NO” vote will really mean for Scotland. 

    They must see on the ground that the “YES” vote is rock solid and must also know as we can see that the “Don’t Knows” are slowly but surely moving towards “YES” in ever increasing numbers.

    Carmichael’s sudden recent plethora of “warnings” to Westminster that they shouldn’t be complacent is a sign that he at least can see what is happening on the ground.

    The imminent release of the White Paper has clearly got them very worried as it will describe an alternative future for Scotland that is viable and its release will only accelerate the movement towards “YES”.

  48. edulis says:

    # Douglas Young at 6.48 pm
     
    For information, how does Lesley Riddoch’s Northern Horizons go down in Shetland and the interest of the SG and the Jimmy Reid Foundation in emulating aspects of Norway’s way of doing things? On the surface of it you would think it a runner amongst the Shetlanders.

  49. Stuart Black says:

    ” I think they should have had more “tiers” though as the sums sort of jump up rather than have a more graduated range.”
     
    Agree, they haven’t thought this through properly. 3 pounds, 30 pounds, 300 pounds, and the a jump to 3,000 pounds, a bit bonkers really. It won’t stop me lobbing in, but you are right, some people may be put off by the ‘tiers’.

  50. Heather McLean says:

    Feck! Mystic Meg must be real busy these days – methinks she must be chief advisor to the Bitter Togethers  and the IFS with all these predictions that are being made about the future!

  51. Horacesaysyes says:

    Round of applause, Shaun – that was brilliant!

    But rather worryingly, I do think sometimes that some of those on the ‘No’ side actually think is what is going to happen!

  52. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thepnr –
     
    Cheers. So it wasn’t a public meeting after all?
     
    Perhaps this is the latest BT tactic – announce public meetings, then shift them, postpone them, or describe them as something else if any genuine member of the public ever sets foot over the door. Finding a ‘real’ BT meeting will be like chasing the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
     
    Tell you what though – I wouldn’t fancy being in BT shoes if they give Ronnie another bum steer.

  53. Thepnr says:

    @Ian
     
    Nor me, I think Ronnie’s just getting into gear. Eh Ronnie!

  54. HandandShrimp says:

    bbc scotlandshire will be kicking itself!
     
    Sod BBC Scotlanshire…Better Together will be kicking themselves 😉 They can’t do it now.

  55. richard prowse vss says:

    Sounds more like a prediction for a Tory led England

  56. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Marian-
    ‘Sooner or later Westminster is going to have to recognise that their childish “Project Fear” nonsense is backfiring big time and have to ditch “Project Fear” and start talking about what a “NO” vote will really mean for Scotland.’
     
    Kin right. 
     
    It may sound perverse, but it would be refreshing if any of the BT cheerleaders would stumble from their favourite club, hammered, and give it straight to the camera, stabbing finger, snarls, the works (think Ian Davidson after five cans of Special Brew with Jagermeister chasers):
     
    ‘Right, bastirts, here’s the sketch – see if youse vote Yes? see if youse do? then you’re in for such a total beastin’ it’ll make Flodden look like an episode of the fucking Teletubbies. Right? An ahm only telling youse this cause ahm a (hic) paytray, ahm a pay-tery, ahm a (hic), I’m just fucking telling ye’s, okay?’

  57. Iain says:

    If this is a genuine leaflet, it is pathetic, amateurish, adolescent stuff – who is going to stay with this piffle to its end? What is pitiable, and reflective of the intellect of the BT staff, is that someone in authority thought it was a good idea, someone spent a lot of time composing it, and – if they really intend to distribute it – they’ve paid for it and it is still not blindingly obvious to them that it is crap.

  58. david says:

    someone needs to tell him

  59. Kenny Campbell says:

    My God will no one think of the Rangers fans……..

  60. Kevin Lynch says:

    All I have to say is, marzipan is disgusting. 

  61. david says:

    that vid from last night is doing the rounds, just had a text from my pal saying he had it texted to him by a friend.

  62. Thepnr says:

    @Kevin Lynch

    Whats YOUR problem with marzipan? Yeh marzipanist.
     
    Just asking like.
     

  63. Ian Brotherhood says:

    This is brilliant, from the Wings Twitter feed:
    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/403926059764047874/photo/1

  64. clochoderic says:

    OT
     
     Don’t think it has been flagged up here yet but Grahamski and a couple of other SLAB bods were tearing lumps out of each other BTL in the Guardian over Falkirk, earlier.
     
    Labour moment of truth as activists threaten to reopen Falkirk wounds
    Tensions high for annual constituency meeting, with Labour leader Ed Miliband being urged to publish report into Unite affair.
     
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/21/falkirk-labour-candidate-selection-meeting
     
    So it looks like Terry Kelly and Grahamski are not better together at all. I wonder which camp Ian Smart, Duncan Hothersall, Cooncillur Braveheart and all the other SLAB bloggers are going to be in. Maybe someone who Twitters could ask them?

  65. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    If only that wasn’t a spoof. Mind you considering  the desperate they’ve been producing? 

  66. Papadocx says:

    What are the chances of major (security) alert on Tuesday/Wednesday and a lot of political noise over the weekend. Will not be surprised at the venom or intensity. The Veracity of the attacks will be non existent, but pretty vicious stuff I’m sure. 

  67. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood
     
    Any idea how to share that on facebook? Not great with twitter ect. Cheers.

  68. caz-m says:

    O/T
    The Rangers supporter with the England top on in the other post is a guy from Ferguslie Park in Paisley.

    His loyal Celtic supporting local councillor is also a bitter pro unionist, who also hates Alex Salmond.

    It’s non other than Terry Kelly, Labour councillor for Ferguslie park.

    He wants to keep more control over his flock.

  69. Doug Daniel says:

    I wonder if Shaun has been playing the excellent The Last Of Us lately? I feel like I recognise a few scenarios from it 😛 It’s excellent, though. Far too good to have come from the minds of Blair McDougall, Rob Shorthouse or Rob Murray (Grassroots).
     
    Wp: “Much of this sounds like the UK in 5 years if we don’t get out.”
     
    Exactly what I was thinking! In fact, some of it sounds like the UK just now…
     
    Ian: “Perhaps this is the latest BT tactic – announce public meetings, then shift them, postpone them, or describe them as something else if any genuine member of the public ever sets foot over the door. “
     
    Nothing new about it! They regularly set up events on their Events page, but don’t actually go ahead with them. Of course, they leave them up there, and then include them when telling us how many events they’ve supposedly staged.

  70. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thepnr –
     
    Sorry man, I’m no use on anything Facebook-related, but someone will be along in just a tic I’m sure…
     
    Come on then, eh? Help the man out with this teccy stuff.

  71. Kipper says:

    I saw in the newspapers today the same scare stories were out in force. SNP plans for border guards post-indie, etc. It seems that the “news” is endlessly recycled scare stories when it comes to the independence debate and topic in the papers/media. They keep printing the same scare stories, people try to or succeed occasionally (but in a small scale and quiet fashion) debunk it, they wait a few months and print the same story again as if it was new or never shown up as nonsense already! Bizarre. It’s like they are mindlessly banging their heads against the brick wall. Hard to believe they really believe in the BT cause if they don’t have any actual arguments in its favour and simply reprint old nonsense they know is nonsense. Seems to be the behaviour of someone more obligated to do it.

  72. J. R. Tomlin says:

    It’s amusing but really you’re better off leaving the satire to the satire sites, Rev. I think people come here much more for good information.

  73. Torquil Houghmagandie F-fflufington-Smythe says:

    Greetings Teuchters.

    A number of my friends from St Andys, sleepers on this forum, have contacted me requesting that I enlighten the great unwashed as to how I acquired my unusual Scottish middle name and being someone who believes that any pronouncement made by me will be waited on with baited breath I have decided to enlighten youse {note the subtle use of the vernacular] as to how I acquired it.

    Days before I was born the pater had picked up a book by an obscure poet chappie called Bobby Burns [he still breaks into a cold sweat when he remembers that he thought he was going to be stopped when leaving the shop with the unpaid book in his pocket] in that volume he came across the word houghmagandie, the mater agreeing with him that it would be one in the eye for our neighbours the Chomundlays in the one-upman stakes it was duly bestowed on me and was greatly admired by all our friends and fellow white settlers, even all those I came into contact with at St. Andys in my student days thought it was a master stroke in integration by my parents, however my eyes were opened to its true meaning when I was signing into a brothel/**ere sauna using my own name, such a laugh it raised and I was ever after known in those circles as “The F—er”.

    Yours for No,
    Houghmagandie.—–or if you are from the vocabularly challenged St. Andrews area in Fife   F—er.

  74. Thepnr says:

    Got it shared! Not perfect but works.

  75. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Doug Daniel –
     
    At the Stevenston BT gig, a fortnight ago, we were there early enough to see everyone going in. I live across the road from the Centre, and have done for 16 years. I don’t know everyone in Stevenston. I don’t even know everyone in my own street by name. But I do know faces.
     
    So far as I saw, no local residents attended that meeting. The only familiar faces were the people working inside the Centre. One of the other SSP guys there that night lives less than five minutes’ walk away from the Centre, so it’s quite possible, nay likely, that there were more Stevenston locals outside that meeting than attendees.
     
    I found out about the meeting from this site. There was no local publicity at all for it – no posters in the local shops, nothing in local Press (that I’ve seen yet), and no chat amongst neighbours. It’s as if they didn’t want anyone to know about it. If it hadn’t been for a ‘by-the-way’ remark from a regular commenter here, I wouldn’t have known about it meself. 
     
    When it comes to openness, transparency, you know, all that boring ‘democracy’ shite?, – naaaah! BT doesn’t ‘do’ debates.
     
    It does a bit of dark whispering here, there, wherever it can, and it moves on…

  76. mealer says:

    I made a decision today.I decided to go round my neighbours,and inform them that on the day afore the referendum I’d crawl to their doorstep and BEG them to Free My Country.
    I don’t think that’s a big ask.

  77. ronnie anderson says:

    Ian Botherhood, It was a joining meeting for BT I went up to Cumbernauld about 30 of them were sitting round a conference table but if you hear of any Bt public meetings near me in Airdrie post it up

  78. Thepnr says:

    Ian do you have a link to the video?

  79. X_Sticks says:

    Can’t remember who posted about the UKIP aforceforgood site:
     
    http://archive.is/NgBFW
     
    but it’s a scary read. The thought of a tory-ukip alliance in Westminster is truly chilling.

  80. msean says:

    Is this what they really think?It reads like a bad science fiction story,(or wishful thinking from the no camp lol).

  81. A2 says:

    ‘Also, some comments on the Facebook post about this are calling Nairn Academy the Eton of the north? I find that somewhat hard to believe…’
     
    I got a kicking in Nairn once if that helps.

  82. Morag says:

    I’m quite astounded by the number of people who have contemplated even for a second that this is something other than black humour.  Poe’s Law indeed.

  83. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thepnr-
     
    The video?
     
    If you mean the Stevenston BT gig, it’s here, with a next-day session in Saltcoats:
     

  84. Thepnr says:

    Cheers Ian
     
    Just showed it to the wife, she was back from a works night out but I pleaded with her to stay up to watch this. Think we have one more vote in the bag. 🙂
     
    PS Clan Destiny Films need to get a Facebook page or a page on Youtube, make things easier to find.

  85. kininvie says:

    Hi Ian,
    That’s the first time I’ve managed to see that, and it’s really inspiring, especially the second half. I think your experience can be replicated up and down the country. Certainly it’s exactly what we are getting here in WL – people really eager to take part in talking, even if they are sceptical.
     
    Thanks for that.

  86. Barontorc says:

    There’s many a true word said in jest!
     
    I know my immediate circle and I know there are many doubters – 5 out of 15, but from that only 4 are sticklers to NO – so I make it now, at worst, its 9 out of 15 or 60% risky against YES and I’m hoping that the White Paper will give enough readable information to swing over the 5 Don’t Knows. I’m guessing 3 or 4 DK’s will be persuaded, which will change YES’s chances to 53% – 60%.
     
    Of course, the No people I know might also see the light and take a chance on the promises of the White Paper, but leave them where they are and put your money on a tight result of 53%-60% YES and maybe, just maybe, it could be as much as 73% YES!
     
    My prediction is 53% to 73% for YES. 

  87. Des hughes says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but if they rebuilt the wall, Then wouldn’t the WHOLE of Northumberland and most of Tyneside be part of Scotland (again)? So that would mean the Northumberland times would be a Scottish newspaper. Hmmmmm!
     

  88. Alba4Eva says:

    I had to share this piece of qualityness…
     

  89. Patrick Roden says:

    The Falkirk story in the Guardian, had this interesting snippet:
     
    ” Sources say that the party’s membership had declined over the previous decade from over 400 to 200, in line with many other local parties. But the prospect of a new MP meant that all sides were keen to recruit new members who might vote in the selection process. ”
     
    So What was the Labour Party’s membership numbers a decade ago?
    Say a 60% drop (from over 400 to 200) and we have the membership numbers for the Labour Strongholds.

  90. Ken500 says:

    On the doorstep 30% No 30% YES – 10% not voting

    The Don’t Knows will either Vote YES or Not Vote.

    Surprisingly, people from elsewhere and older people won’t vote – ‘any changes won’t affect them’

    ‘Either passing through or they will be gone’.

  91. caz-m says:

    Never mind welfare cuts, food banks, bedroom tax evictions.
    The Westminster Government are making sure taxpayers money is going to the correct places.

    They are spending millions of pounds of taxpayers cash on converting the Olympic Stadium into a state-of-the-art football ground for West Ham Utd.

    So, indirectly we are propping an English Premiership football club. While our own grass roots football clubs are screaming out for funding.

    http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11685/9036453/taxpayers-to-pay-bulk-of-200m-olympic-stadium-conversion-costs

  92. Bunter says:

    On the BBC website Baroness Warsi alleging that Labour benefitted from vote fraud at the last GE. She suggests there were dodgy goings on within certain Asian communities but would not point out which ones. the piece goes on to mention that Birmingham may be one of those areas, which turned up large numbers of postal votes. Can we expect daddy Sarwar to turn up again just before the referendum?

  93. sneddon says:

    Nice bit of satire Shaun chnage the name of the country and we’ve got the UK in 10 years.  O/T The  Jim Naughtie Show (aka the Today programme) doesn’t ask the question to Carmichael or the clown Jones ‘who owns the currency?’ which is at the core of the currency question.  The answer is no one because its a freely tradable currency.  Something the unionists are keeping quiet.  Also Jim Wallace Lord of something or other banging on about NATO membership, aye right Jim.

  94. Ken500 says:

    ‘Labour’ electoral fraud

    Never

    SNP has 25,000 member. Pro rata the largest Political Party in the UK, totally financed by it’s members. That is why ut can have independent/good policies. Labour financed by Unions. Tories financed by Corporate/bankers.

  95. Ken500 says:

    Flaw? in the School’s Poll/vote.

    Does the whole school get to vote? Not just the 16+ year olds.

    Not representative.

  96. Ken500 says:

    The UK gov is spending £720Billion not £560Billion. Spending £120more in the rest of the UK. Where’s Scotland £12Billion share. Better together? Austerity for Scotland – borrow and spend whatever in the rest of the UK, while Scotland gets the Bill.

  97. Xaracen says:

    @Ken500
    The UK gov is spending £720Billion not £560Billion. Spending £120more in the rest of the UK.
     
    Ken, where are you getting these figures from? You have mentioned them on several occasions, now, and I am trying to back them up. I have been looking at the GERS2011-12 and it doesn’t appear to match your figures. Can you point me to your source?
     
    I am trying to argue cases with a couple of my friends, and need to be able to point to solid facts rather than interpretation or speculation.
     
    Thanks
     

  98. the journeyman says:

    The really scary thing is that the first half of this description of life after the referendum could actually come to pass – if we vote NO next year. Many a true word spoken in jest!

  99. theunicorn says:

    Great piece by BT I believed it all up until they mentioned Anas Sarwar. They know the people of Scotland are going to vote Yes and are moving from pre Indy utopia to post Indy holocaust. Subliminal reconginition that we are on our way and they have the hot minging stuff filling their breeks.

  100. caz-m says:

    BBC Radio Scotland Saturday morning headlines programme again has absolutely NOTHING positive to say about Scotland or the Scottish people.

    The Co-op banking scandal didn’t happen, bedroom tax evictions was in our imagination, 10 Scottish Labour MP’s not turning up to vote against it isn’t worth mentioning.

    Nothing to see here, move along now.

    A disgraceful example of a state run media trying to brainwash the population.

    And the one uplifting thing to come out of all this is that the majority of people are starting to see right through it. Those who cant see their bias yet, have to be told of it.

  101. Cal says:

    @Ken500
     
    Hope you told the people who are from furth of Scotland when you were doing your canvassing to think again about whether it affects them. Recently, I had a conversation with an Italian girl who lives here about how when the Tories and UKIP form the next UK government and we’re out of the EU she’ll be heading back to Italy. She was genuinely shocked. Said she’d never thought about that before. She’s leaning to Yes now. 
     
    @Bunter
     
    There’s something very dodgy about postal voting. And something deeply dishonest about the modern Labour Party. I hope there are moves afoot to make sure there’s no cheating next September.
     
    Been doing this kind of double act with a fellow Indy supporter recently. In a public place within earshot of the people around us, I pretend to be a Don’t Know and raise doubts about independence. He’s the Indy supporter and gives good positive answers to my questions. Great way to circumvent the media! In some ways better than trying to persuade someone face to face. They get the idea they are listening in to something they shouldn’t be and getting “secret” information. Even if they’re not listening they can still hear so it’s going into their subconscious anyway. Do it at work, at the bus stop, in the pub. Great!
     
    Also, posted this on another thread but worth repeating here. When your out and about on your own in a place with lots of people, hold your mobile up to your ear and have a conversation about Indy to your imaginary friend. eg. “Isn’t all the negative stuff on the news about Scotland sickening?  I’m siick of all their lies. Yes, you’re right. I don’t believe anything I hear on the TV or radio about Scotland anymore either.”
     
    Remember to put your phones ringer volume down beforehand otherwise if you get a call you’ll look like a twat!

  102. Ken500 says:

    The UK gov tries to hide the figures you will not get them in the GERS figures

    I got them from the GUARDIAN a link from Rider OO.

    Also a programme on BBC 2 -How much the UK borrows/spends – Nick Robinson?

    The UK gov publishes what’s raised but not what’s borrowed and spent. £720 Billion is what the UK gov spends.

    The £120 is borrowings. It is well documented.

    The Scottish Gov publishes the GERS figures. Scottish Gov website search GERS P30/36.

    The figures Scotland spends is £65Billion but Scotland pays back £4Billion in debt repayment. Leaves £61Billion . Scotland raises £57Billion (not including all taxes) £60Billion? Total. Scotland breaks even. Ie Scotland is not subsidised and never has been. (Thatcher) In the Thatcher years Scotland’s Oil revenues were double.

    Just as Scottish gov states Scotland could grow the economy decrease unemployment and be in surplus. If it had the full fiscal and economic powers. The Scottish government is telling the truth, not the Unionists. It is the rest if the UK that doesn’t balance the books and borrows and spends
    too much.

    Just reducing Defence Bill (Trident) £1.5Billion Scotland would be in surplus.

    It is not speculation. It is fraud by the UK gov. Scotland gets back £48Billion (including £17Billion Pension/benefits) Scottish taxpayers pay for Scottish gov pension. £12Billion goes to the UK Treasury unaccounted.No taxation without representation.

    The UK gov is spending £120 more in the rest of the UK. Fact.

  103. Ken500 says:

    The UK gov is spending£120Billion more in the rest of the UK. Raising £610 Billion in the UK in revenues UK gov is spending £720Billions.

    Scotland breaks even or is in surplus. Depending on what the £12Billion going to the UK Treasury from Scotland is spent on. Unaccounted. Scotland could spend it a better way?

  104. call me dave says:

    More jam tomorrow ‘deja vu’ how many flavours are there !
     
    http://archive.is/9vJ1j
     
     
     

  105. Boorach says:

    @ Ken500
     
    As one of the older generation I am determined that, what could be one of the last things I ever do, I’ll make my mark to leave a better, more socially just Scotland behind for the generations to come. 
     
    Just, gently, remind the older ones that every generation has strived to leave a better place behind and this is their chance to do just that.

  106. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @Ken500 – If the Nairn Academy vote was run in the same way as the 12 Aberdeenshire academies earlier this year then indeed the vote is not representative.
     
    All S1 to S6 pupils voted. [12,000]. In otherwords ages 11 – 15/16. That is why the Aberdeenshire figures of circa 75% NO votes were not from the S5/6 students who will be eligible in 2014. There are return figures for each Academy available online.
     
    I checked out the School Rolls available on the Aberdeenshire.gov website and there are NOT 12,000 S5/6 pupils. In fact there is an average of about 200 per Academy, so around 2400 eligible to vote next year. The return figures for each Academy are available but there are no breakdowns for age group.
     
    The actual vote was rather bizarre in it was done anonomously. No names on voting papers and no breakdown of numbers in any way, shape or form. So despite my ignored and deleted questions on the Director of Education’s blog there was nothing more I could pursue.
     
     

  107. Ken500 says:

    @Boorach 9.28am

    Appreciate your commitment and there are many like you, thank goodness, especially relevant in older health care.

    Just recounting some surprising reactions.

    Ie the Don’t knows will vote Yes or not vote. They are unlikely to vote No. Result will depend on the turn out.

  108. Ken500 says:

    The schools results are irrelevant. How many 16+ year olds voted No?

  109. Linda's Back says:

    O/T
    Better Together breaking the rules again.
    Not content with accepting the majority of their funding  from outside Scotland which is against normal rules they have sent 300,000 illegal spamming texts.
    But again the supine Electoral Commission doesn’t fine them . 
    http://archive.is/8l08e

  110. Xaracen says:

    @Ken500
    Thanks for that, so GERS is incomplete.
     
    Well I knew that, but knowing it and knowing by how much and in what respect are two different things, and that knowledge gap is what I am trying to bridge.
    I have been getting the impression lately from several articles here and elsewhere that Scotland’s deficit is artificial in the sense that if Scotland was already independent that deficit would not have existed, that it is an artifact of being in the Union without enough say in how its tax revenues are spent, or in what Scotland is billed for.
    The key item that I would like to put to bed is how much of the UK national debt an independent Scotland should actually be liable for. I know that will be a major subject for negotiation, and the starting assumption always seems to be that Scotland will be liable for a straight pro-rata population share. I think that is the wrong approach.
     
    It is assumed to be fair without any context to justify it. But it presumes that Scotland’s population benefited equally pro-rata from the borrowed monies but without any evidence to prove it. It renders the financial actualities irrelevant, which is almost certainly the point.
     
    It is those financial actualities that should determine Scotland’s true liability, and it’s important because as the IFS story and its rebuttals show, that liability will have a major impact on Scotland’s economic future.
     
    The real liability must be based on who incurred the debt, where the money went and who actually benefited from it and how much unfair debt interest (if any) was levied on parties who perhaps didn’t get a fair share of the benefits. Without solid figures how can a case be made for any particular liability?
    But if Scotland can be shown genuinely to have been in surplus the last 32 years, then it’s debt liability should be zero, and even might be due a rebate! Now that would make for interesting discussion at the negotiation table.
     
     

  111. ronnie anderson says:

    X Sticks, gave up at the more&more part devalutions their baw n they can take it back anytime, as I used to do manageing kids football teams , reset the score to keep the kids intrest  ,thats what the piece remindes me of,

  112. Juteman says:

    OT.
    The Herald had a story today about the ‘Yes hacking’. I don’t want to post a link.
    It must win the prize for most misleading headline of the year.
    The headline states that no evidence of hacking was found, yet the main story states the opposite. Blatant lies!

  113. david says:

    The Rangers supporter with the England top on in the other post is a guy from Ferguslie Park in Paisley.
     
    well i got that one wrong, i thought it was a magrit curran, iain davidson lovechild.  

  114. ronnie anderson says:

    Xsarecen, As with any Westminster govs from the 70s to present, there will be no truth told, ie Mc Crone report buryed,if the truth we’re to be reveiled, there would be no need of a Referendem, Scots would declare UDI end of, U k govs fked

  115. liz says:

    I wouldn’t even waste time talking about Nairn Academy.
    It looks as though from the school roll approximately 82 pupils would be eligible to vote and since 71% said No that would be about 58 pupils will vote no.
     
    It’s a distraction, I’m sure the voters in the central belt will be influenced by Nairn academy – not.
     
    Nairn is a middle class area near Fort George.

  116. HandandShrimp says:

    I see ChairChoob is in the news again demanding what the White Paper should say. To be honest I didn’t bother reading it. The Scottish Select Committee is simply an arm of Better Together. It is neither impartial, measured or credible.

  117. Bunter says:

    Yeah that Herald Headline on the YES hacking is really confusing. Dunno what’s going on there..lol

  118. david says:

    Scottish Select Committee is simply an arm of Better Together. It is neither impartial, measured or credible.
     
    and an insult to peoples intelligence

      

  119. ronnie anderson says:

    cale me dave, ma maw made a good  , Goosegog jam , if you ve got the goosegogs  ill but the suger, donr tell Dippy Dave, es never heard of the ingenuity of the Scots people, an hes never tasted Goosegog Jam shßss lol nae smily thingys

  120. liz says:

    I wouldn’t even waste time talking about Nairn Academy.
    It looks as though from the school roll approximately 82 pupils would be eligible to vote and since 71% said No that would be about 58 pupils will vote no.
     
    It’s a distraction, I’m sure the voters in the central belt will be influenced by Nairn academy – not.
     
    Nairn is a middle class area near Fort George.
     

  121. Marcia says:

    Something is stirring. There seems to be a full house at the Radical Independence Conference – over 1,000 according to reports;
     
    https://twitter.com/search?q=%23RIC2013&src=hash
     
     

  122. ronnie anderson says:

    Prestwick airport now in public ownership SG bought it for £ 1 canny Scots, noo who,s selling some jet fighters, SG s first bids a £ 5 if theres nae mare bids weil tak 2 doz, heathrow hub airport, BEA noo yer gittin compitition. lol

  123. X_Sticks says:

    Bunter and Cal
    “Baroness Warsi alleging that Labour benefitted from vote fraud at the last GE”
    As cal said I hope we are going to be watching VERY carefully for electoral fraud in the referendum. I don’t trust the establishment one little bit.
    Love your little strategies for getting the message out there Cal! Brilliant. As you say though, make sure and put the phones ringtone off!

  124. X_Sticks says:

    sneddon says:
    “Jim Wallace Lord of something or other”
    That’d be Tankerness sneddon.

    I think it’s a bit like Brigadoon – only exists in his mind. Another liberal promoted far above his own capabilities.

  125. X_Sticks says:

    call me dave says:

    “More jam tomorrow”

    Great news cmd, now I know we’re winning and they know it too. As one of the comments on the article said “I forecast this tactic would appear early in 2014 but here it is eight weeks or so early. Things must really be bad.”

  126. X_Sticks says:

    ronnie anderson
    “gave up at the more&more part”

    Not surprised you gave up Ronnie, its a sair read indeed. Very glad to hear you’re feeling better and I hope that article didn’t depress you too much 🙂
     
    Your dedication and optimism are a tonic for us all!

  127. Shaun Milne says:

    Hey folks. Firstly, this was not genuine. I tried to imagine the future of Scotland that BT would have you believe will happen if we vote yes. They don’t think it but they really want the public to. Secondly the amount of people who thought this might be real is terrifying. This, if nothing else highlights how truly awful their campaign is. We would all have no problem believing they would try this Or something similar to keep Scotland scared. There are no depths they would not sink to.

    Doug – I have played the last of us but it really wasn’t on my mind when I was writing. It must’ve slipped in there subconsciously!

  128. Jingly Jangly says:

    Xaracen
    Ken 500
    According to the last figures I have seen, Scotland does have a deficit of about 7bn due to over 4 bn incurred paying off population share of Interest in UK national Debt, (which is rising by about 120bn or more a year) Other costs by being part of the union are the reason for  the rest of the deficit. If all Scottish taxes and revenues were put on the Scottish balance sheet we would be in surplus. Yesterday one of my friends whilst researching the UK debt came across a interesting piece of jiggery pokkery in the UK deficit, they have counted Quantitative easing money and the post office pensions pot as income, effectively reducing the deficit this year to a claimed 80bn or so. The QE money is the interest around 6,4bn accrued,which the Band of England has generously given back to the Government, how anybody can make interest on and electronic byte is white mans magic to me!!! The Post office pensions funds of around 28bn are a liability with a deficit of around 10 -12 billion. On the plus side they did get 2.3 bn for the 4g (rays of light  worth 2.3bn is more white mans magic!!! ) and the sale of the post office another  couple of billion So when you see Gideon’s Autumn statement held up as proof that the green shoots of recovery are well and truly rooted and all is well you know its utter nonsense

    Good site for info on debt and deficit link below
    http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5922/economics/uk-budget-deficit-2/

  129. MajorBloodnok says:

    @david
     
    That’s odd, I thought it was Jimmy Somerville, gone a bit funny.

  130. X_Sticks says:

    Marcia says:
    “There seems to be a full house at the Radical Independence Conference”
     
    Aye, Marcia, I believe the event is sold out. Brilliant. Wish I could have gone. I think it will be an exciting and illuminating conference. I look forward to the output from it which, along with the white paper, could be a game changing moment in the fight.

  131. ronnie anderson says:

    depressed me am hudin own tae ma loopy status,fur when a git tae a B T public meeting, they stories make me pmsl,ah jist want tae git oot there oor next street stalls no tae Sat 30 th Nov Airdrie am looking fur somthin before that  any ither groups need ahand leafletin gies a shout, am like the Boys o the Black Stuff the noo, Gie,s a job

  132. gordoz says:

    O/T  – Nairn
    I think it says a lot for our infiltrated school system if So many Schools are coming out for No doesn’t matter where they are – indoctrination ?

  133. X_Sticks says:

    Ha ha Ronnie!
     
    They dinna ken whits gonna hit them when you git there!
     

  134. call me dave says:

    Radical Independence Conference: 
    You mean that anyone can go to this . . . shurely shome mishtake!

    But seriously from the pictures that is a good turn out by any standards in Scotland.  Lots of good stories and reports in the papers tomorrow then . . .OH! right.
    This airport we have bought could have potential for all sorts of future developments civilian , oil on the West coast, hub for flights to foreign parts.  Military options too!
    Good week end ahead except for the rugby fans.
     
     

  135. liz says:

    Apologies for double post on Nairn.

  136. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    I think I’ll make up a leaflet called “Our ten favourite lies”
     
    It would have to have a one sentence “lie” and a maximum three sentence rebuttal with links to fuller information.
    ie

    LIE They say the oil’s running out and its not worth much anyway
    TRUTH It will last fifty more years as its value rises . They said it was running out in 1985,1989,1997 and at every election since.The Government’s own McCrone report said it would make Scotland about the richest country in the world so they hid it from us (links)
    LIE They say they won’t let us use the pound sterling.
    TRUTH. The pound sterling is a freely traded international currency so they can’t stop us using it. Huge exports of oil,gas and whisky are what is supporting the value of sterling so a sensible currency union (with Scotland in a very powerful position on the board) is in England’s interest as well as Scotland’s. (links)
     
    and so on. Any ideas
     
    Ian. Can you post a link to that great wee film?

  137. Derick fae Yell says:

    Business for Scotland have an analysis (amongst many fine articles btw) on the debt subsidy that Scotland makes to the ‘UK’.  £64,000,000,000 on interest along over the last 32 years.  http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth/

  138. john king says:

    Ian Brotherhood says
    “So far as I saw, no local residents attended that meeting”
    maybe they know they wont get any real support from local so rent a crowd to come along ,
    maybe they should call it the Better Together roadshow?

  139. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Gordoz
    I entertain the same suspicions as you know but it is probaly also the case that that group are more readily affected at a very superficial level by MSM nonsense and I suspect they are very readily turned if given the facts. 
    Time enough.

  140. Stuart Black says:

    More proof that, if Alex Salmond really is planning a dictatorship, he has a very strange way of going about it.
     
    http://archive.is/81I2F

  141. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill –
     
    I’m not sure what film you mean mister…

  142. ronnie anderson says:

    XSticks, jist phoned ma weeSnp councilor M Coyle he, killing his sel laghfin that a back tae some normality ,hes seen me wobblin aboot, so hes phonein the rest of the Yes group so fur certain I,llbe oot daein leafleting,but Ill sill be available to any other groups ,I have my own transport folks,so shout up if you,s need a hand

  143. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    John King
     
    There were very few locals at the Dunoon Better Together launch and none at all of a NO persuasion if the reports about the Rothesay launch are to be believed.

    They have virtually nobody on the ground (except OO and Rangers supporters apparently).

    I get the feeling that opposition to a YES vote in the Celtic community (if it can be so described) is veering towards a no show at the polling station rather than a NO vote. There are distinct signs of a significant section of that community moving.

    The huge importance of Charles Gray’s recent powerful endorsement cannot be underestimated. Wr approach a tipping point in the Labour movement

  144. Ann says:

    Marcia,
     
    ………. and Better Together mob say “This is the true face of Independence”.  Absolute tosh.
     
    I don’t see anything wrong with being radical. It doesn’t mean that you are an extremist or out to cause mayhem. Simply that you have completely different outlook and all within the law.

  145. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Ian
    The video of the Stevenston gig which you posted at  1.19. As a very ancient person I have no idea how to distribute that without a link that I can post into the large loop acquaintances I assault with stuff ona aregualr basis 

  146. Marcia says:

    Dave McEwan Hill
     
    As a fellow ancient person here is a quick guide.
    All you need to do is copy the link below and email it.
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJArA_gqRuA

  147. X_Sticks says:

    Lol, beat you to it Marcia 😉

  148. Marcia says:

    X_Sticks
     
    Minx. 🙂

  149. X_Sticks says:

    Watching the twitter buzz (courtesy of Marcia) about the RIC conference. It really does feel like something very special happening there. Damn. wish I could have gone.

  150. Faltdubh says:

    Liz, you wasted time by talking twice about it 😉 I’m kidding.
     
    It’s worrying though that most kids seem to very anti-Indy even if it won’t probably affect the outcome, I have no idea where this has come from. I was in high school 9-10 years ago and if anything we had these mock polls or elections and Yes or independence was always the winner.

  151. Edward says:

    Slightly O/T – Has anyone seen the picture of the Radical Independence meeting today?
     
    http://www.facebook.com/radicalindependence
    http://radicalindependence.org/index.php/2013/11/21/test/
    A ‘packed hall,’ doesn’t give it justice

  152. Luigi says:

    Thought for the day:
     
    “The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie–deliberate, contrived and dishonest–but the myth–persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”  JFK.

  153. ronnie anderson says:

    Thepern ,Naw Ronnie,s no jist gittin intae gear am strapin a jet engine tae ma arse , the REVs got ma Landline Number fur any Wingers  needing  a hand, car availble tae, C mon noo dont be shy, as if lol

  154. ronnie anderson says:

    Packet of Praws £ 3.50, noo slip a couple of them in the air vents of their car, their no gone tae any meetings, Playin dirty they lot dont know whit playing dirty means,tae tey meet me

  155. Craig M says:

    Re Nairn.
    Just along the road, my sons go to Inverness High School.

    Both my boys are free thinkers, and both support Independence.

    The subject is discussed in the school and several popular teachers have expressed support for Independence to the Pupils.

    My view on Nairn is that the catchment area does have affluent parts and there are many current and ex service families living there. The RAF has bases close by and many families live in Nairn.

  156. Craig P says:

    Jingly Jangly – I vaguely remember Snakes and Ladders. It made a future independent Scotland out to be an economic desert whilst the south of England rolled around in luxury. I was only 10 but even then I could tell something wasn’t right.
     
    I wonder – can anyone think of a drama, film or novel made in the last forty years that imagines a near future with a prosperous Scotland and relatively struggling England? As well as Snakes and Ladders and Doomsday, I can think of Douglas Hurd’s novel Scotch on the Rocks. It seems odd that only this gloomy future has been imagined, when the economic facts suggest the complete opposite.
     
    Maybe somebody needs to write a novel or screenplay about a prosperous future Scotland to help shape people’s sense of national self-worth. It is telling that we have never had such stories told to us.

  157. Papadocx says:

    Lungi 12:27
    Couldn’t. Agree more luigi, The no BT brigade are a lost cause for whatever their reason. A lot of the decent people have been pushed out of political activity (voting) because it suites the Westminster political classes, divide and control. These disinterested people are under the impression that a NO vote will just allow things to roll along as before, (god help us).

    The truth is a yes vote hopefully will encourage people to vote and make politics in Scotland   more democratic. We will get what we vote for, good bad or indifferent and we will have to live with that. 

    As it stands we get what London wants and Scotland will just have to lump it.  

    A NO vote is not a vote for no change, steady as she goes. 

    A NO is a yes vote for westminster to gut out Scotland and punish us for upsetting their grubby selfish plans. So if you don’t vote YES you are voting for BIG CHANGES and it will not be for the better. Listen to what ALL the BT parties have signed up to on austerity measures. 
    Vote No and your voting to get CRUSHED.

    Vote YES and chose what kind of country we want.

  158. Morag says:

    Maybe somebody needs to write a novel or screenplay about a prosperous future Scotland to help shape people’s sense of national self-worth.
     
    I suggested to Alasdair Gray about 20 years ago that he should do this.  His response was “Ah cannae.”  (Actually there was more to it, he wrote me a postcard, but basically he didn’t think it was his thing.)

  159. Jingly Jangly says:

    Craio P
    Wonder if the BBC will suddenly find (Dr Who) the missing Scotch on the Rocks and show it next year. I remember them filming it in Arran in the early seventies.

    Ive got a copy of the book as well.

  160. Craig P says:

    Morag – now I think about it, James Robertson’s And the Land Lay Still is as about as close as it has come, though even that is a backward, rather than forward look. 

  161. Robert MacDonald says:

    Dave McEwan Hill says:
    I think I’ll make up a leaflet called “Our ten favourite lies”
     
    Good idea Dave. I like the idea behind faolie’s excellent referendumanswers.com but find it a bit wordy. I had a go at Snopes-ing the referendum at http://winnading.blogspot.co.uk/ but your distillation is better still.
     
    PS: Iain Brotherhood. How can you not like Jackson Carlaw?! Best name in Scottish politics, union jack underpants and a picture of Margaret Thatcher on the wall. Give me someone like that over a weasel-worded New Labour drone any day 🙂

  162. msean says:

    By the looks of that photo there isn’t much room there.

  163. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Liz – I think perhaps to call Nairn a middle class area is a wee bit harsh as it is a town in its own right with its own problems viz a viz Unemployment, Housing and retention of school leavers.
     
    The figures, charts and percentages shown on this link indicate to me that Nairn suffers from lack of industry, lack of social housing, and a propensity towards an older or ageing population. Definitely a link between all 3.

    http://www.highland.gov.uk/yourcouncil/highlandfactsandfigures/ward-19-z-wardstats.htm
     
    I think a better description of Nairn would be its a typical Scottish seaside town suitable for beachcombers, golfers and retirees. If and when the A96 is dualled then Nairn will be by-passed.
     
    @ Ken500 – Despite investigations by me and conversations with students after the Aberdeenshire Academies’ mock referendum votes it was not possible to determine the 16+ NO vote. As I explained in my previous post the vote was anonymous and no records were kept regarding 16+ students. 
     
    As for the results being irrelevant I agree with you in the bigger picture but certainly not to the YES student activists who posted on Wings and ran very active Facebook pages. Craig M confirms my suspicions that the whole training and educational exercise was totally skewed towards a NO vote majority. 75 percent NO was ridiculous and not reflected among the 16+ students.

  164. Ken500 says:

    Agree.

    The Vote was irrelevant as not representative. Not the students are irrelevant.

  165. Ken500 says:

    The £4Billion debt repayment. Basically plucked out of thin air. Scotland gets it and then gives it back. £65Billion – £61Billion. Taxes raised £57Billion doesn’t include all taxes – £60Billion.? Scotland gets back £48Billion (including £17Billion Pensions/Benefits) The £12Billion is unaccounted spent on Scotland’s account. Defence etc. Could the Scottish gov spend it better? If it was spent in Scotland would it benefit or grow the Scottish economy and cut unemployment. Yes.

    Scotland balances it’s budget. The rest of the UK does not. Borrows and spends £120Billion more. Total revenues raised in the UK £610Billion Total spending in the UK £720Billion.

    The currency, the EU, NATO, Queen etc are all a diversion to hide the true facts. Westminster/Unionist manipulation. Either ignorant or devious.

  166. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Ken500 – Good that we agree and perhaps I was a wee bit careless with my reply to you. However it was the lack of information and the answers regarding the 16+ vote that really annoyed me. I got a simple enquiry on a blog run by the Shire Director of Education ignored and deleted.
     
    As you know the irrelevant numbers were released to the MSM and then used as a whipping stick which was more relevant to us all. I guess we shall never know what actually happened but time will tell.

  167. wee e says:

    They rebuilt the wall just like they said they would.
    (Shhhh, don’t LOL!)

  168. wee e says:

    That reminds me – when is this century’s version of Scotch On The Rocks scheduled to be shown?  Who’ll be making it? Maybe Kirsty Wark’s man?

  169. call me dave says:

    Real scare story now.  Off to watch rugby!  Hiding behind the couch and no  dalek in sight. I’ll be resurfacing in 2 hours
    😉 

  170. gordoz says:

    Dave McEwan Hill
    Fair point Dave

  171. john king says:

    Robert MacDonald says
    “PS: Iain Brotherhood. How can you not like Jackson Carlaw?”
    I have to say after listening to him and Murdo Fraser in the parliament on Thursday in the homage to JFK that I could be convinced by both of them,
    I thought Carlaw gave a very critical but insightful view of JFK  rather than the usual homage by people who think they knew the man, his comments about Kennedy’s father as ambassador to the court of saint James when he went back to Washington to advise  president Roosevelt to avoid a war with Germany as Britain was a lost cause,

    only then to go on to remind us of the episode in WWII when JFK’s  torpedo boat was sunk and he(JFK) took his wounded crewmen to safety  over a sandbank up to his chest in water to a nearby Island one by one ,
    hence his subsequent bad back, JFK was no saint but he was a force for good and who knows what the world would have looked like had he lived, no Vietnam war?  
    cumon Murdo what are you waiting for? you and Jackson could revive the Tory party in an independent Scotland (god help me) 

  172. X_Sticks says:

    Well, another loss at the auld squinty-ba game. 🙁

    A better performance than last week at least, and they kept the Aussies honest.

  173. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill –
     
    I can’t remember having a go at Jackson Carlaw. He accepted a leaflet from me and even said ‘thank you’, so unless he was really pissed and thought I was someone else, he seems a civil enough sort.
     
    As a general rule I’m suspicious of people who use surnames as first-names, but I suppose he’s probably as inoffensive as Tories come.

  174. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Ian
    I think you’ve got the wrong guy. 
    Dave
     
    As a matter of interest I find Jackson Carlaw, Ruth Davidson and Murdo Fraser a lot less offensive than the snarling munts on the Labour benches. Perhaps an understanding of their almost total inconsequence has mellowed them. Or perhaps they understand rather better than Labour that independence is inevitable 

  175. Brotyboy says:

    Am I correct in thinking that Jackson Carlaw is a member of the Carlaw family who owned a garage chain in the West in the seventies and took over some firms in the East coast?  They were a bunch of mean-spirited bastards who seemed to think that having blue towels in the boardroom of businesses they’d bought into indicated something other than a need to dry your hands after washing. Maggie’s interest rate policy did for them by the early eighties but I have harboured a deep resentment against them since 1981 when they made my father redundant. I think Jackson Carlaw has been quoted as saying that if Scotland achieves Independence he will leave and will be glad to drive him to the airport myself.

  176. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill –
     
    Apologies man – I’m probably pissed, or was, or should be.
     
    In any event, I don’t believe that any of us should bear animosity towards individual Tories – they are what they are, and it would be wrong to expect them to be any different. They can’t help it.
     
    SLAB, and Libs, on the other hand?
     
    No way. I’d happily sit and have a pint, a blether, and a productive disagreement with any number of Carlaws, Davidson/Goldies, or even Galloways.
     
    But Lamont, Baillie, Sarwar, Ian Davidson, Rennie, and the likes of Hothersall, Cochrane, all the State’s other useful MSM ‘assets’? Not a chance – I’d rather spend the time pressing drawing-pins into me own baws.
     
    They are shameless, self-seeking, reactionary scum – it will be delicious to witness them being humiliated and/or permanently removed from public life.

  177. Mark - Aberdeen says:

    Great work of fiction. How about a parallel plot line where the UK removes itself from the EU, ties itself to “special relationship” with the US, a diminishing world power thats economy is overtaken by India & China and a resurgent Japan.Unable to trade freely with the largest trading block, the EU and with Frankfurt overtaking the City as Europe’s main financial centre. The dysfunctional island people look back at its squandered resources, the desolate landscape of a once vibrant manufacturing sector, sold out in favour of a service led economy that produces little and rips-off many.Still, at least we’ll have Chancellor Boris to put a smile on our face with a cheeky quip or a wobbly ride on a free bike.Just a thought ….

  178. Elliot Bulmer says:

    This is why the Constitution is so central to the issue. It takes away the ‘Salmond = dictator’ and ‘independent scotland = one party state’ argument. It turns that silly line of argument on its head. 



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