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Wings Over Scotland


The kingdom of wishful thinking

Posted on August 24, 2016 by

One thing you can always guarantee on GERS Day is that the latest set of figures for Scotland’s devolved economy inside the UK will trigger another uncontrolled spurt of “SNP HONEYMOON OVER” articles from the nation’s dogged commentariat.

honeymooners2

Today we’ve seen already examples (links below) from two ex-Scotsman editors, Iain Martin and Magnus Linklater, the latter popping up in the Times by way of a rather crass and unpleasant analogy involving Oswald Mosley and the Blackshirts.

And since we’d rather watch “Suicide Squad” again than spend any more time going over the arguments about GERS (and trust us, readers, we don’t say that lightly), we thought it’d be more fun if we finally got round to compiling a semi-definitive list of all the times the collective wisdom of Scotland’s media and opposition has confidently predicted the SNP’s imminent demise.

The Nats were first formally elected to government on 16 May 2007. We wouldn’t have too long to wait after that.

22 MAY 2007

“The SNP’s honeymoon is coming to an end.”

30 AUGUST 2007

“Alex Salmond and his SNP colleagues have enjoyed a long honeymoon since their dramatic narrow victory in May’s Holyrood elections, but that could change when MSPs return from their summer recess next week.”

15 SEPTEMBER 2007

“Wendy Alexander has promised to return Labour to power in Scotland as she became the party’s first female leader.

She announced party reforms and launched a fierce attack on the Scottish National Party, claiming that its honeymoon at Holyrood was over.”

4 OCTOBER 2007

“The SNP’s honeymoon has come to an end.

25 JANUARY 2008

“While the SNP blunders through its honeymoon, the truth is beginning to dawn on the Scottish electorate. Meanwhile, Scottish Labour renews, and we wait.”

18 APRIL 2008

“The Scottish Government will shortly celebrate a year in power. Perhaps the honeymoon is over already.”

8 MAY 2008

“The honeymoon is over for the SNP. Wednesday, May 27, 2008 may well go down in history as the day the electorate stopped loving Alex Salmond and the Nationalists”

1 JUNE 2008

“Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but could the longest-lasting honeymoon in Scottish politics be over? Opposition to the Salmond bandwagon has been feeble so far in the parliament, but in the town halls it will be fierce. Let the fight-back begin.”

5 JUNE 2008

“Reality looms after SNP’s honeymoon”

7 NOVEMBER 2008

“Honeymoon may be over for SNP after surprise by-election defeat in Glenrothes”

8 NOVEMBER 2008

“Glenrothes was the day that proved Alex Salmond’s honeymoon is over and also the day Labour is fighting back, renewing our contract with the Scottish people.”

11 NOVEMBER 2008

“Alex Salmond got it spectacularly wrong. Scottish politics has changed again. The honeymoon is over.”

honeymoonscott

13 NOVEMBER 2008

“After Glenrothes, Alex Salmond’s honeymoon is over”

13 DECEMBER 2008

“Move shows the honeymoon may be over for Salmond”

2 DECEMBER 2009

“Mr Salmond – still smarting after a severe beating in the by-election in Glasgow last month and less than encouraging poll ratings signalling an end of the longest honeymoon in Scottish political history – apparently ‘blinked’ according to the opposition Labour leader Iain Gray.”

14 FEBRUARY 2010

“After an inordinately long honeymoon normal political service is just reasserting itself.”

5 AUGUST 2010

“The wheels have very definitely come off – the SNP have nothing to say and their honeymoon period in government is most definitely over.”

21 OCTOBER 2010

hothersallpredicts

11 SEPTEMBER 2011

“How long will Alex Salmond’s honeymoon with the voters of Scotland continue?”

4 MAY 2012

“Will local elections results be end of SNP’s honeymoon?”

27 NOVEMBER 2014

“It felt like the start of a possible shift in the centre of political gravity, with the SNP perhaps even finding itself outside the consensus.

Scottish politics may gradually revert from being dominated by the grievances of the 45% who voted yes to independence, to the quieter aspirations of the 75% or more who tend to back increased powers for Holyrood.”

8 JANUARY 2015

“Nicola Sturgeon’s honeymoon spell as First Minister has disappeared over the Holyrood horizon.”

13 AUGUST 2015

“SNP bandwagon faces bumpy ride”

24 SEPTEMBER 2015

“Scotland may seem completely in the SNP’s grip at the moment, but even as the Nats belt out ‘Scots Wha Hae’ at the end of their conferences, Justin Timberlake’s ‘What goes around, comes around’ hums gently in the background.”

4 OCTOBER 2015

“After eight years of defying the laws of political gravity, the normal rules of politics are back.”

14 OCTOBER 2015

“The Guardian view on the SNP: lords of all they survey – but for how long?”

2 NOVEMBER 2015

“Adored, winning – so why is it all going wrong for Nicola?

The more cocksure Nats should remember the first rule of politics: outside of autocracies, the pendulum always eventually swings away from you. The public gets fed up looking at you. It decides it wants the other guys to have a shot. And regardless of how good a game you talk, people aren’t fooled by words for long if they are not matched by actions.

The fraying of Nat support is already visible.”

9 NOVEMBER 2015

“The political ground has shifted and all great empires must eventually fall”

14 DECEMBER 2015

“Opposition leaders and spin doctors have been privately banging their heads against their office walls at Holyrood wondering what it takes to dent the SNP’s seamless popularity.

So why should the latest political row over the closure of the Forth Road Bridge be any different – is it likely to result in any lasting damage for Ms Sturgeon?

A lengthy delay is sure to see the closure remain a live issue going into the Holyrood election campaign – and it may just provoke the kind of anger which sways floating voters.”

17 FEBRUARY 2016

gordonhoneymoon

16 MARCH 2016

“Honeymoon is over for the Nats – it’s time for tough truths”

27 APRIL 2016

“The honeymoon’s over Nicola – now it’s time to deliver. In keeping with traditional cycles of power, the SNP’s halcyon days are unlikely to survive the next parliament.”

18 MAY 2016

“Has wheel of fortune come off SNP’s bandwagon?”

15 AUGUST 2016

bellhoneymoon

24 AUGUST 2016

honeymoontimes

24 AUGUST 2016

“After a long period in which the normal rules of political gravity did not apply to the SNP, there are the first stirrings of a change. They are being found out.”

5 SEPTEMBER 2016

“Honeymoon set to end for SNP and angry voters”

1 OCTOBER 2016

“The SNP is in political landslip: it is its decline, not its rise, that is gathering momentum. The triumphalist narrative of ‘inevitable’ independence rings hollow from a party running out of steam and credibility. At last, the skids are under the SNP.”

16 OCTOBER 2016

“Could the SNP bubble be about to burst? With thousands gathering for its largest ever conference this week and Nicola Sturgeon dominating headlines, it might seem an odd moment to ask if its decline is also underway. But away from the multiple ovations in the main hall, the cracks are starting to show.”

26 DECEMBER 2016

“Meanwhile the mounting domestic crises in education, policing, council services, council tax increase and the unravelling SNP budget cannot be levelled at Westminster. Something has to give; next year it will be support for the reputation of Nicola Sturgeon and support for the SNP.”

20 JANUARY 2017

“Ignore Nicola Sturgeon’s swagger –2017 is the year the SNP will reap the whirlwind.”

30 JANUARY 2017

“Are wheels about to come off SNP bandwagon?”

24 MARCH 2017

“The SNP came to power on a programme of deception; its power is now imminently dissolving in a welter of self-delusion.”

CURRENT “SNP HONEYMOON OVER” COUNT: 43

One day, of course, they’ll finally be right. Even a stopped clock, etc. But with five years until the next scheduled Holyrood election (which would require either the Tories to win a general election in Scotland or Labour to surge to victory from third place) it doesn’t look as though it’ll be any time soon.

So we’d advise readers to enjoy the articles above, because they might be in slightly shorter supply for a little while to come.

As ever, let us know if we’ve missed any. We’ll keep the list updated.

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4 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 24 08 16 20:56

    The kingdom of wishful thinking | speymouth

  2. 04 09 16 09:04

    Nicola the Haverer - Craig Murray

  3. 26 10 16 22:16

    James Millar: Another metropolitan columnist – Towards Indyref2…

  4. 09 01 17 13:13

    Let’s Do The Time Warp Again | A Wilderness of Peace

228 to “The kingdom of wishful thinking”

  1. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    Aww no. A nine year honeymoon. That’s longer than my marriage.

  2. mogabee says:

    2009 was a busy year, and looks like 2016 could be even busier.

    They must run out of scary stories yet here we are having to hold our sides as we laugh out loud! LOL

  3. Onwards says:

    I think many Scots just prefer a real Scottish party that wants more powers and influence for Scotland to run our parliament.

    I can’t see that changing anytime soon.

  4. Grouse Beater says:

    “Magnus Linklater, [popped] up in the Times by way of a rather crass and unpleasant analogy involving Oswald Mosely and the Blackshirts.”

    I spotted that and, frankly, am shocked.

    A more tentative Linklater once gave me his ‘screenplay’ to adjudge. Presumably he wanted me to try to sell the rights. I returned it with a polite excuse it needed more work. I now regret not telling him it was a pile of crap.

    What a volcano of insult and ridicule Scotland has taken for daring to demand real democracy.

  5. Fairliered says:

    Do the yoon commentators not realise that the SNP honeymoon has lasted longer than many marriages and nearly as long as the last time they had a f**k (other than with each other)?

  6. Donald MacKenzie says:

    Isn’t it awful that so many of us are continuing to support this failed party whose best days are clearly behind it.

  7. Irvine Manderson says:

    The unionists don’t get it that the SNP that always puts Scotland first instead of Westminster first, is guaranteed success forever more.

  8. Arbroath1320 says:

    Note to all unionists who read Wings … you know who you are. 😉

    Change the bloody record … PLEASE!

    Yer daen ma bloody heid in wi yer constant drone o S.N.P. honeymoon is over! 😀

  9. Dan Huil says:

    Iain martin and Magnus Linklater [like Neil, Marr, etc] are fully-paid-up memebers of the Cringeratti who have spent their lives doing down Scotland in order to suck up to their britnat masters. Their jobs and livelihood depend on it, hence their desperation to deliver what britnat Westminster wants: reassurances, ever-anguished ones, false ones even, that Scots really love this disgusting union with England.

  10. HandandShrimp says:

    Political journalists are supposed to analyse and comment. The lot we are stuck with in appear to doggedly stick with an SNPbad mantra in the desperate hope that the electorate will listen to them and vote the way they want.

    That isn’t journalism and it isn’t desperately clever either.

    🙂

    I wonder if they ever get the feeling that the only people who read their shtick is us and all we do is poke fun at them.

  11. Keezie Dugtail actually used this tale of woe as proof that Scotland is better aff in the United Kingdom.

  12. Onwards says:

    The biggest threat to the SNP is Labour proposing some kind of federal or confederal set-up, but realistically that isn’t going to happen.

    Labour is a UK nationalist party at heart, and anything that takes powers away from London is resisted. Devolution was only conceded with the hope of killing the SNP stone dead, and mainly as an administrative assembly with the “Scottish Executive” having as little financial powers as possible.

  13. Joemcg says:

    Brian Wilson on reporting Scotland- “GERS was deployed by a Conservative Scottish office against devolved self government but that’s history” eh? What does that even mean? What’s history? Are these figures the truth or lies Brian?

  14. Dorothy Devine says:

    The more I read what a basket case we are and how our altruistic neighbours generously provide for us , the more puzzled I am as to why they wish to hang on to us for grim death.

    Surely if some bugger had their hand in ones pocket one might take action and be rid of them?

    Come all ye folk south of the border , take action to protect your interests and demand that Scotland exits stage left singing and dancing.

    Imagine how good you’ll all feel when trident arrives in the Thames and all those jobs – wow!

    Imagine how your NHS and Education system will function with all that money you won’t be sending across the border.

    And when we have all the revenue from the “running out oil” and all the revenue from Whisky , and we sell you lot lovely Scottish water , imagine how delighted you will be – free at last , free at last , you will be free at last!

  15. jimnarlene says:

    The honeymoon will be over, when we the people say it is; not because Unionists wish it so.
    But as it stands, the people are still loved up.

  16. Dr Jim says:

    All this criticsm they chuck at the SNP then they show us their alternative Tee hee hee

    Jackboot Ruth the blue Tory, or Nursery Nurse Dugdale the red breasted Lesser spotted Tory, I’m not even going to mention the others, Oh I will, Wee Willie Rennie the I’ll be a Tory if you want me to be, Patrick Harvey the I’m not really anything but I do try to be interesting party

    How many political parties do we have representing Scotland
    and the answer is: One… the others represent England Wales and Norn Ireland

    Simples, we vote for Scotlands National Party
    Nearly forgot there,we want Independence too, that’s a wee bit important, which means, barring total ineptitude the SNP will be the Government for Scotland FOR-EV-ER

    Hate it Yoons? eat your cereal and get over it

  17. Paula Rose says:

    Actually the honeymoon is over – we are now in a long-lasting loving relationship where we have arguments but never fall out cos we love each other.

  18. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Joemcg.

    That was Brian Taylor, not Wilson. I got the impression that he wanted to say more but kept quiet.

  19. Joemcg says:

    Brian-Oops! Yeah he has changed his tune saying it was “Historic” like he’s dismissing the idea that it’s biased. Both STV and BBC well and truly stuck the boot in tonight. Bastards.

  20. Clootie says:

    Thanks Rev…I couldn’t take any more about GERs and that cheered me up.

    It doesn’t matter the topic it is just one long Independence/SNPBad rant in the hope that someone listens. The media have now removed any doubt about their bias. I could not bring myself to watch,read or listen to the lies about my nation’s financial status today. I have a feeling that less and less of my fellow Scots did either.

    We do not have journalists in Scotland ( or the UK). We have puppets of the Empire pushing propaganda.

    One positive outcome – as a nation we now have the tidiest sock drawers in the World.

  21. Breeks says:

    Yeah, but no, but yeah, but no….

    I agree, the SNP government hopefully does have a long way to go before its twilight years, but perhaps we shouldn’t be too complacent about the glacial pace of progress when our formal opposition is in chaos and largely dysfunctional. Circumstances do seem to be lining up as a veritable window of opportunity.

    Just as the media pumps up SNP’s honeymoon being unnaturally long, it is equally subdued about the incredible disarray of the opposition parties, especially Labour. You literally couldn’t make it up. The 2014 Better Together squad wasn’t far off the “Dream Team” which YES supporters might have picked for badness – but it didn’t matter. We didn’t lose to Better Together, we lost to the BBC.

    You perhaps wouldn’t describe 2016 as an open goal situation, despite Brexit giving us a free penalty, but there is a palpable sense of frustration that we should be capturing more ground than we currently are. To coin the phrase, we’ve never had it so good.

    Sadly, all roads lead us back to the media, which remains by far the most effective opposition to the progress of Independence, continually stifling the necessary process of nation-building and informative discussion.

    Indyref 2 will not be a re-run of YES vs Better Together, this time it will be the Scottish Government vs the BBC, and I very much hope the SNP is thinking along those lines and developing a gritty battleplan to counter the bitterly effective unionist propaganda.

    With so many events, frustrations, and blessings falling in Scotland’s favour, you have to ask yourself, if not now, then when? We could be waiting and awfully long time for Lou Reed’s Perfect Day, and it might never happen.

    Windows of opportunity do have a nasty habit of closing.

  22. Smallaxe says:

    Will you listen as people say that you are fools, and that you’ve been tossed away by the very people you shamed yourselves to help? No. There is still time for you to redeem your reputations and restore your good names in the eyes of the world. Take revenge against this Kingdom who mocks and scorns you.They thinks constantly about how to repay you for all you did—by putting you to death.

    Henry 1V part 1 (changed slightly)

  23. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I agree, the SNP government hopefully does have a long way to go before its twilight years, but perhaps we shouldn’t be too complacent about the glacial pace of progress when our formal opposition is in chaos and largely dysfunctional.”

    I think that – by design – the amount the Scottish Parliament can actually achieve is limited. After 17 years the low-hanging fruit is pretty much gone. In terms of indy, the hard fact is that there’s just nothing much that can be done before Article 50 is invoked. Right now all we can do is beaver away behind the scenes to be ready for stuff when it happens, and be patient until something does. The key lever, as usual, rests at Westminster.

  24. dakk says:

    This Blackshirt is not for turning 🙂

  25. Malky says:

    Cheesus McChristus, I didn’t realise these quotes were all linked to yoonish articles!

  26. galamcennalath says:

    Two possibilities …

    1) the honeymoon will indeed end. I do wonder and see this as a good reason to have IndyRef2 while there is an Indy majority in Holyrood.

    or

    2) at least half the Scottish population no longer play the time honoured Unionist game of party politics. They have more important considerations when voting and see a bigger picture where self determination is the goal. The SNP are a means to an end. It which case, the honeymoon might be over well after Indy has been achieved.

    Yoonery fear the first and just don’t get the second.

  27. A Welcome Home says:

    Perhaps the most remarkable thing about this latest batch of worthless punditry is that while they are desperately screaming SNPBAD!! and proclaiming everything to be downhill all the way for the SNP, the Labour party in Scotland are genuinely in the midst of utter chaos and a full scale acrimonious split.

    It’s everywhere.

    There isn’t a Labour branch untouched by the furious namecalling, infighting and numerous power plays/sackings/demotions/promotions as the Corbynistas and Blairites battle for the right to have the completely unelectable Smith or completely unelectable Corbyn as Leader.

    So, just for a moment, imagine if it was the SNP wracked by this voter repelling lunatic split and chaos.

    Does anyone seriously think the mainstream media and tame cringing Scottish press would be treating the SNP with the same kind of embarrassed scant attention the SLAB split is receiving in the media?

    Or do we think they would completely lose their f**king minds and never stop shrieking about it 24 hours a day 7 days a week if it was the SNP neck deep in that kind of jawdropping chaos?

    Not too hard to work out the answer to that one, is it? 😉

  28. Macart says:

    The honeymoon may possibly be over when two things happen. The commentariat change the record and the establishment parties start to actually give a shit about the population instead of their precious careers and party politics.

    So not any time soon then.

  29. Al McKay says:

    “And since we’d rather watch “Suicide Squad” again than spend any more time going over the arguments about GERS (and trust us, readers, we don’t say that lightly)”

    We’re going to fall out Rev, apart from that i agree with every word on this.

  30. ScottieDog says:

    Folks, regarding the GERS figures and their impact on Scotland’s future prospects, here are some thoughts..

    If we are going to look at Scotland’s deficit, perhaps to tell the whole story we need to take into account the UK’s stock of debt. Deficits are really about flows (like the ins and outs on our bank statement) where debt is a stock – the balance (or negative balance in the case of the UK) at a point in time.

    So wouldn’t it be fairer to look at that negative balance – the £1.6 trillion of debt issued by the UK over it’s history. If we do that we find that about two thirds (around £1 trillion) was spent very recently – pumped into the banking system in response to the financial crisis caused by the deregulation of our banks in the city.

    So it’s convenient to forget that two thirds of this union’s debt was run up on the city of London.

    Which region of the UK boasts the lowest deficit at the moment ?

    You’ve guessed it, The South East of England and the city. They have over bloated salaries and bonuses and hence the highest PAYE tax levels. As a direct result of government support, this region has the lowest deficit (remember that’s the inflows v outflows and doesn’t tell us the whole story – I.e how it was bailed out)

    It’s a bit like calling a lottery winner a self made millionaire.

    The reason people refer to the UK as having broad shoulders, is that it is a currency issuing nation with a central bank. That’s all really.
    Infact the Bank of England now owns around 1/4 of UK debt.

  31. Robert Louis says:

    Oh, the honeymoon is over. It has been over for 308 years, since England betrayed its promises almost within a year of the signing of the unwanted, undemocratic union treaty of 1707. Since then, England has ignored, deceived and cheated Scotland of its natural resources, talent and wealth. The union between England and Scotland has only ever been to benefit England.

    Now, when is the divorce?

  32. The Isolator says:

    GIRFUY..that’s all I have to say to these naysayers.

  33. ScottieDog says:

    Reposting this from an earlier a thread but think it relevant…

    Q what currency would be best for Scotland?
    A new floating Scottish pound with a Scottish central bank as lender of last resort.

    Q why our own floating currency?
    The financing of any govt consists of what we raise in taxes plus revenue from exports with any shortfall covered by what we can borrow as a nation. As an ISSUER of a currency the Scottish government can determine the interest rate at which it issues bonds (borrows). These bonds will always be attractive to investors as they know that there is a Scottish treasury and central bank with infinite capacity to provide a return. Like other central banks around the world, the Scottish Central Bank can also act as ‘buyer of last resort’ buying up the country’s debt if need be off the bond markets. Just look at how much debt the Bank Of England, Bank of Japan, Federal Bank of America, and European Central Bank have purchased.

    Q can’t we just create money debt free – a sovereign money system?
    Yes we could but not if we sign up to the Maastricht treaty which prohibits this. We will have to sign up to this as part of the EU.

    Q wouldn’t already established currencies like the Euro or pound be the best option?

    No. This would limit our capacity to borrow. As a currency ‘USER’, the shortfall of money after taxes and export revenue would have to be borrowed. An investor knowing the country most definitely can run out of money would want a higher return due to the higher risk involved. This would push up our cost of borrowing. Being in the Eurozone would limit the government’s capacity to run deficits which would be detrimental to our economy in the event of a downturn. Greece needs massive govt stimulus not more austerity.

    Q what about tariffs? How would we trade with rUK?

    Consider that we have a trade deficit with the rest of the UK at the moment. Consider that the UK has a trade deficit with the rest of the world. Following Indy, Scotland would be an important customer of rUK and vice versa. Why oh why would London or Edinburgh want to impose limiting tariffs to dampen (already precious) exports and hence drive people out of business? Would England really want Yeo Valley to fold? Would our cousins in the south want zero access to the lower food miles products up the road?

    Q what about our existing outstanding debts denominated in UK pounds?

    There are lots and lots of ways to think about this. Besides walking away from the debt, the Scottish govt could re-denominate its share of the debt in Scottish Pounds. This is what Argentina did when it could no longer service its foreign debt. A boom period followed. (No investors didn’t turn their backs on Argentina )
    Of course to preserve relations there could be a compromise which included for example help with removal of trident or an asset swap such as oil/energy assets. I don’t believe we would have a problem in this dept.

    Q what about the current size of Scotland’s deficit? Wouldn’t we need massive austerity drive to get us back on an even keel as some mainstream economists say?

    Consider the areas in the UK with the biggest tax yield. That would be the banking sector in London and the South East. That was the sector which received the biggest bailout in 2008. So it was govt stimulus that produced the tax yield!
    As for austerity, it should be obvious now (unless you are a devout Tory) that what works on the household scale doesn’t work on the macroeconomic scale. You can’t reduce the spending gap by taking money out of the economy. If (unlike the UK), the Scottish government spends productively to create jobs, it will create tax revenue which will reduce the deficit on the long run anyway.
    It is tempting to believe that the government should live within its means, yet the way our money system works if that happens the rest of the economy (households, businesses etc) have to increase their borrowing for the economy just to stay still (A government surplus is our deficit) This is what consecutive government’s did from 1980 onwards, creating a huge debt bubble which culminated in the 2008 recession.
    Household debt alone is now approaching £1.5 trillion – another bubble.

    Q won’t this large spending stimulus risk inflation, devalue the currency and increase interest rates? What about our credit rating?

    inflation will only start to ramp up if we spend beyond the productive capacity of the economy . Mainstream economic models assume erroneously that we are already there. We are no where near maximum output.
    For interest rates see the first question.
    Any devaluation will benefit our exports. Yes imports will be more expensive for the time the currency is down but the benefits of the govt spending for our country far outweigh the disadvantages.
    The ratings agencies are becoming more farcical by the year. They were taking money from the likes of Enron and the big banks (just before their collapse) and giving them AAA ratings and at the same time downgrading Japan to junk status (a lower rating than countries it was proving aid to!).
    All Japan’s debt is denominated in its own currency. It has huge foreign reserves. To say it was at highest risk of default (junk credit rating) is farcical. Luckily the Japanese government just laughed and created the biggest government deficits of any country and will never go bust.

    So we need to just nod and smile and get on with building a country.

    Q won’t Scotland have a ridiculously big banking sector?
    yes – the solution to this should be obvious!

  34. Lovin’ it, Dorothy.
    Of course the Brexit Battle Bus £350 million a week for the NHS should logically apply to the millions which England bungs us Sweaties every week.
    But they don’t really believe that. They know they are stripping our assets year in year out. It’s the British Empire after all.
    It is no accident that the English Oligarchy is educated at Eton or Harrow, Oxford or Cambridge, where the ‘Classics’, Latin and ancient Greek, and their models of Imperialism and democracy, are hammered into them (ahem)and the Ancient Roman model has been mirrored by the English Parliament and aristocracy.
    Empress Victoria and all that.
    Incidentally The Civil Service was modelled on the ancient Chinese system, hence ‘mandarins’ at Whitehall.
    For the Roman Empire, read the Holy London Empire.
    Andrews Neil and Marr were brought from the colonies as slaves, but have since earned their freedom, but like freed slaves in Rome, they who could never become citizens of Rome, because they weren’t Rome born.
    The two Andrews may don togas, buy property, and even own slaves of their own, and strut about like Londoners, but the Establishment know that they are at heart Sweaties, former slaves, useful Jocks, who can be relied on to do their masters’ work and lie to, decry and threaten their fellow Scots, and paint the land of their birth as a hope less financial basket case, dependent on the munificence of England.
    They think nothing of blackening our international reputation, and willingly cooperate in suppressing the political will of their fellow Scots.
    Hatred and scorn of one’s country is a terrible thing.

  35. The Rough Bounds says:

    Robert Louis 8.09 pm.:

    A very good point Robert. Turn their argument on its head. ”The honeymoon has been over for 308 years”.

  36. Wills says:

    interesting……. Our honeymoon has lasted longer than the Tory/LibDem marriage.
    And 10 Scottish labour leaders.

  37. Phronesis says:

    To what end would the media repeatedly use such a phrase to negatively influence and persuade opinions and beliefs? The rhetoric of futility is having the opposite effect. The Indy movement is strengthened because it has gained insight into the mindset of UKOK which wants Scotland to remain fearful, anxious with an impoverished sense of self.

    Repeatedly employing an entrenched metaphor but for the wrong relationship. Scotland’s 300 year overly long honeymoon with UKOK is over – a quickie divorce is inevitable.

    Thankfully there is the internet, social networking and ego-nets which facilitate the exchange of information that the ‘news’ doesn’t want to reflect on. The locus of control no longer resides with the powerful elite.

    Reciprocity and a knowledge network hard-wired to the rhetoric of hope, aspiration and an achievable reality. Compare and contrast with the constant barrage of ‘Scotland is not worthy’ with no logical explanation of why- other than ‘just because’. The divorce settlement will be fair and appropriate.

  38. Saw your old friend Dave Torrance in Newington today, Travels by fold up bike now; easier to morph I suppose.

  39. galamcennalath says:

    ScottieDog says:

    “How would we trade with rUK? ….. Why oh why would London or Edinburgh want to impose limiting tariffs to dampen (already precious) exports and hence drive people out of business?”

    That all depends on the Brexit deal rUK agree with the EU. Scotland (jumping ahead to Indy within the EU) will have the same trading arrangements with rUK that our 27 European cousins have. That’s the way the EU works regarding outside countries.

    If it’s soft Brexit with rUK agreeing to free trade and free movement, then it won’t be an issue.

    If the xenophobes and Little Englanders get their way and they opt for isolationism from the EU, then we will probably have a hard border and tariffs. If we want Indy that will be the price.

    Personally, if it’s to be such a hard Brexit that there will be tariffs and closed borders between rUK and the EU, I would definitely prefer Scotland to be on the EU side of the border!

    With this Brexit shit, Scotland needs Indy more than ever no matter whether the final negotiated EU settlement is soft or hard.

    I do see problems though. If it’s soft Brexit then many will argue about why we need Indy at all. If it’s hard Brexit then many will be displeased at the idea of a hard border. Brexit doesn’t automatically increase the attraction of Indy.

  40. Jimbo says:

    It must really grate on these Unionist media hacks that since 2007 they’ve been spinning like peeries, and nobody pays the slightest bit of attention to anything they have to say anymore.

  41. heedtracker says:

    Groundyoon Day. Still to see Groundhog Day but cant be as crackers as the assorted UKOK freak show of tory hackdom pounding away the SNP vote.

    If you like me, you like to cut n paste rancid The Graun’s appalling yoonster propaganda, Severin McSpanner style, you have to take care and check their publishing dates now, as they are exactly the same SNP/Sturgeon bad, year in year out, same SNP bad, different tory names, what will save teamGB from the vile sep scourge, of their precious Scotland region, what they all really weally wuv, oh yes they do, they love Scotland and want you to stay, whoever the fcuk you are, also, vote Slab, but if not vote Ruth, she’s a genius of the political age, a British genius!

  42. heedtracker says:

    If like me, you like to cut n paste rancid The Graun’s appalling yoonster propaganda, Severin McSpanner style, I mean, sorry:D

    This from a profoundly tory Scottish tory, Wednesday 24 August 2016 18.16 BST, JC will smite the vile separatists of his Scotland region, and his vengeance will know no mercy, wait, how can JC crush us if even Dugdale says he’s no use? Even his last ever Scottish MP hates JC. It really doesn’t matter at all.

    http://archive.is/QMTLs

  43. schrodingers cat says:

    I think that – by design – the amount the Scottish Parliament can actually achieve is limited. After 17 years the low-hanging fruit is pretty much gone. In terms of indy, the hard fact is that there’s just nothing much that can be done before Article 50 is invoked. Right now all we can do is beaver away behind the scenes to be ready for stuff when it happens, and be patient until something does. The key lever, as usual, rests at Westminster.

    agreed, yesnef is really only doing the background organisation, setting up social media platforms, emails and contacts, merchandise, flags have been crowd funded, car stickers too, badges to follow. In terms of campaigning, apart from big national rallies, a few street stalls and car cavalcades are about all we are or can do at the moment. This is because we dont think indyref2 will be officially called until the brexit button is pushed.

    one thing outstanding is leaflets and literature, we dont have any at the moment (not large quantities for mass distribution) but I believe when indyref2 is called we wont have a long time to wait, certainly not the 3 year run in we had in indyref1. perhaps as little as 6-8 months.

    I also believe that the WBB2 may well be the most important piece of literature we have in indyref2. Even if it isnt written yet Stu, it might be an idea to start the crowd fund for that (with no time limit if possible)

    when the button is pushed, we are going to need the wbb2 asap and in large quantities

  44. Grouse Beater says:

    Stuart: “The key lever, as usual, rests at Westminster.”

    The suspicion has to be Mays will hold off invoking Article 50 long enough in the hope resolve for a second Referendum vote dissipates.

    That also gives her ministers, advisers and civil servants enough time to set out how they intend replacing missing manhole covers, repairing broken sewage pipes, and filling pot holes left by Brexit.

    The only card I see Sturgeon holding is the one over what Scotland might salvage from talks with our European neighbours. If things look grim, and she feels any deficit sufficient to call another plebiscite, that too might be too late to catch the public mood.

    Is time on our side, or our adversaries side?

  45. Grouse Beater says:

    PS: Like Thatcher it only needs Mays to call another easy war to salvage England’s power, strengthen her image, and ‘unite’ Great Britain once more.

  46. heedtracker says:

    Wednesday 24 August 2016 18.16 BST That latest Libby Carrell SNP bad thing is at least working on their SNP honeymoon over stuff to, “a shift in perception of the SNP” which is nae bad really, sneaky and creepy as only phoney leftie Graun can do it but at least they’re trying a bit harder.

    “There’s still a mistrust of the Labour party in Scotland but people are genuinely invigorated by what Corbyn has done,” she added.

    It’s a shift in perception of the SNP also noted by Ewan Gibbs, 26, another SLYS activist who estimates that around half of younger people now joining Scottish Labour voted for independence in 2014.”

    BBC r4 gave Rhea Wolfson, who will become the youngest and only Scottish member of the NEC when her election is confirmed at next month’s party conference, a whole slot of her own on their BBC r4 Any Questions show last week, where she was able to do her SLab is back in business thing. She’s very good, usual SLab style whoppers about SNP on the way out after losing a council election in Motherwell. At least they’re trying too though.

    BBC r4 tory gimps will enjoy what ever it is Rhea means with stuff like JC’s not that bad, “My frustration is that they see him as a figure of the left rather than of Labour, and we need to change that. He is an essential gateway to rebuilding Labour in Scotland as younger people come back to the party.”

    Isn’t Labour meant to be a party of left?

  47. jimnarlene says:

    Grouse Beater says:

    “PS: Like Thatcher it only needs Mays to call another easy war to salvage England’s power, strengthen her image, and ‘unite’ Great Britain once more.”

    I fucking hope not, it was a load of shite the first time round.

  48. Tam Jardine says:

    Reporting Scotland tonight- Jackie giving us the BBC summary of GERS:

    “The Scottish Government is spending nearly £15 billion more than it’s bringing in in tax. In percentage terms it means the deficit here has climbed to more than twice the level of the UK as a whole.”

    That the BBC can headline their programme with such a lie is appalling. The Scottish Government (inc local authorities), according to GERS raised £16.14 billion in 2015-2016 and the Scottish Government (inc local authorities and public corporations) spent £40.54 billion. So they spent (I make it) £24.4 billion more than they raised.

    Unless that is the Scottish Government raises VAT? or raised Income Tax last year? Or raised alcohol and tobacco duty last year?

    Did they spend money on debt interest on the UK debt last year? Did they spend money on EU contributions? Did the Scottish Government spend £3,030,000,000 on defence last year? I think Westminster would get a bit of a shock if they had! In fact, I’d like to see that!!

    The unionist media like to talk about “post-truth” politics. What we are witnessing is the death of truth, the butchery of accuracy; soundbites replacing actual information. Journalistic standards and the integrity of the BBC are not merely dead- they have been through the furnace, the ashes have been scattered and they are making their journey through the bodies of worms.

    Scotland is not a unitary state. The Scottish Government does not control some notional “Scottish Economy”. Does Galloway have an economy? Does Leith? Maybe my street has an economy- you could measure the money coming in and the money going out if you asked everyone to submit household income and expenditure figures. It would hardly be meaningful.

    Lets measure how much per person is spent on defence. According to Jackie Bird’s logic the Scottish Government spent £563.72 on behalf of my 4 year old son and £563.72 on behalf of my 6 year old daughter on defence.

    Is it too much to ask for the state broadcaster to summarise the news with a simple statement of relevant fact that is demonstrably true? Instead of just a total distortion of reality?

    There is a place for these GERS figures. The focus on population is, however methodologically stacked against our country compared with rUK:

    A. her population in relative decline over decades, centuries

    B. with oil and gas revenues which have propped up the UK economy for decades being at their lowest level in 40 years

    C. her landmass, empty and abused by a tiny quantity of landowners for bloodsports and depopulated for sheep- a desolate, beautiful wasteland (the operative word being waste) where even the most radical land reform would take many decades to turn a fraction of it into productive countryside

    D. We are comparing public expenditure in a territory (SCO) with a population density of 179 people per square mile to a territory (rUK) with a population density of 942 people per square mile. Is anyone surprised that it costs more to deliver services PER PERSON. Is it credible to imagine it being the same?

    E. The Scottish Government has little in the way of actual economic levers of the kind normal countries have. Borrowing powers? Quantitative easing? Devaluing the currency? Using any of the fiscal tools the treasury can deploy to stimulate the economy or raise extra revenues?

    F. “Scotland’s spending” as it is deemed is made up of large sums of money spent outwith her territory.

    Because this is what Scotland needs, eh. She was ravaged relentlessly her her belligerent neighbour including genocide, invasion after invasion and bitter economic warfare; she was then effectively annexed by the act of union and then depopulated, her land emptied and distributed amongst the ruling class and subsequent years saw her resources plundered without end. Now we “spend” something £11 billion a year on extra territorial UK shite including nuclear weapons we don’t need or want.

    And we are told by a state media controlled by our large neighbour, our imperial masters that “The Scottish Government is spending nearly £15 billion more than its bringing in in tax.”

    And the unionist commentators and politicians project our “Scottish Economy” as being at risk if we were independent!

    The only black hole is the one we were sucked into in 1706 and 1707. Shame on those who allowed it to happen and on those generations before ours who have failed to pull us out. And if we fail to escape then it will be to our shame also.

  49. Another Union Dividend says:

    Rev Stu forgot all the gleeful predictions of the SNPs demise after Kenny MacAskill released Megrahi on compassionate grounds in August 2009.

    West Linton’s “Ordinary Man” Keith Howell is still defending the UK government’s actions in Edinburgh Evening News letters page to-day apparently oblivious of Tony Blair’s dirty deal in the dessert.

    Following Blair’s prisoner transfer deal (Megrahi was only Libyan prisoner in UK jail at the time) without consulting the Scottish legal system in 2007, at the G8 meeting in Italy, Gordon Brown granted Gaddafi a private meeting and this was closely followed by Peter Mandelson ‘accidentally’ meeting with Gadaffi’s son in Corfu just before news of Megrahi’s released was leaked to the BBC in London which was no doubt done to increase pressure on the Scottish government.

  50. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Grouse Beater –

    You sound uncharacteristically downbeat.

    Don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve detected no sign at all that the thirst for Scottish independence has waned. If May and her WM mandarins are biding their time in the hope of any substantial shift in public opinion, they’re surely looking closer to home for a sign that Brexit-Perhaps Won’t-Actually-Mean-Brexit after all.

    How they’d manage to wangle a second Brexit poll is anyone’s guess, but it was a Tory idea in the first place, a hardened rump of English/Welsh BTUKOKers who voted for it, so it’s their fucking problem.

    We just keep going as we are – a few huge demos, starting on Sep 18th, would help no-end.

    🙂

  51. heedtracker says:

    FT puts the UKOK boot in, not exactly City slicker smooth either. Be nice if even these sleaze bags could explain why Scotland’s got a English sized deficit but no

    Auld Creakie
    Jonathan Guthrie
    Nicola Sturgeon insists Scotland could be both independent and prosperous. Yet National Statistics is killing her vibe by demonstrating the exact opposite, says Jonathan Guthrie.

  52. Dave says:

    Mate, why do you always refer to yourself as “we” when there’s only one of you? Split personality, or delusions of royalty?

  53. heedtracker says:

    FT also profound tory liars, White Paper took median barrel price forecasts from the Treasury and the OBR. Treasury 2014 barrel price forecasts were actually higher than SNP’s. FT, just another bunch of imperial master baiters. Aren’t we lucky to be ruled by them.

    “Optimistic forecasts for North Sea oil revenues were central to the SNP’s fiscal case for independence ahead of the 2014 independence referendum. Some party members say it should now officially recognise that leaving the UK would mean tough spending decisions for a few years at least.”

  54. Grouse Beater says:

    Ian Brotherhood: “We just keep going as we are – a few huge demos, starting on Sep 18th, would help no-end..”

    I’m always anxious about the possibility of ‘events’ (“Events, dear boy, events”) overtaking resolve.

    But your right about keeping pressure in the public domain.

    Only downbeat moment today was thinking I’d finished a sharp attack on James MacMillan’s lay preacher persona, ready to publish at the weekend, when damn it all he goes and publishes another inquisitional rant in the Spectator, worse than before.

    I’ll have to reorganise the essay a third time.

  55. heedtracker says:

    Today or 1:45 pm – 19 Feb 2014? Not sure what the Ligger thinks we are actually doing behind our anonymity. Charming bunch at the BBC.

    Andrew NeilVerified account
    ?@afneil
    @Masked_Scot @traquir @farrochie Who are all these horrible little cybernats? So brave – as they behind their anonymity. Scum of Scotland.

  56. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Tam Jardine (10.12) –

    Brilliant comment there friend.

    I love the way some Wingers manage to summon whole stacks of pertinent stats along with reminders of historical importance (which most of us have heard but cannot remember at the right time) and shepherd them together in a relevant comment.

    Many of us just make one point at a time, monomaniacally. Right now, mine is Glasgow Green on Sep 18th. And when that’s over I’ll bang on about whatever’s next. Others (those who get ‘alert’ reader’ badges!) uncover nuggets or make precious connections to aid understanding of all the material which confronts us daily.

    Point is – between us, this movement can keep many plates spinning. We draw on the past for definitive justification for our case – it’s the inspiration for what we’ll do when we achieve our aim. Brexit-cursed Yoonbags can do no more than lurch from one crisis to the next, and yes, they have the might of the Establishment behind them, but they haven’t faith or motivation enough in themselves to win this in the long run.

    I have a recurrent image of Bliar McBloater as the pathetic piano-playing duffer in ‘Whatever Happened To Baby Jane’. He can’t get the kind of work he wants, so sits in his room half-heartedly parping on his tuba. One day his landlady shows him a small-ad and he gets all excited. Little does he know how it will all end…

  57. HandandShrimp says:

    Heedtracker

    Sounds like Andrew is getting ready to do a Twitter flounce 🙂

    Awfully thin skinned these Yoons

  58. heedtracker says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    24 August, 2016 at 10:55 pm
    Heedtracker

    Check the tweet date though. I rather enjoy being called a scumbag by the old gargoyle, sorry, one of the BBC’s finest tories known to man.

  59. Tam Jardine says:

    Amazing- STV’s Scotland Today spent 15 minutes there with a graphic depicting a saltire with a black hole and the slogan “£14.8 billion” in red. Scotland apparently has a £14.8 billion black hole. I suggest the Scottish Exchequer should open the taps and pump billions into the “Scottish Economy” to stimulate growth or devalue our Scottish Pound in order to boost exports and get our “Scottish Economy” back on track.

    It is as if some sickness has entered people’s brains, or a cloud of idiocy has enveloped the land.

    Meanwhile… back on planet earth maybe Derek Mackay could plug the gap using the landfill tax, tweaking the aggregates levy and by increasing our income tax waaaaay above that in England. That’ll do it.

    Rhona talking about deficit to GDP ratios in the EU. I think one step towards reaching the 3% figure would be to actually be a unitary state. Next step would be to stop spending large amounts of revenue outwith our borders. Step 3 would be to stop paying for and hosting the nuclear arsenal for our neighbour. Step 4 would be to avoid economic suicide of being propelled to the periphery of Europe.

    Fuck me. If we could only harness, if we could only monetise the tremendous power of self loathing that exists in Scotland we would be in eternal surplus.

  60. Effijy says:

    Is Fluffy Mundel trying to say that after 35 years of Scots paying in more to Westminster than it gets back, he thinks that “possibly” 1 year of England paying us back a bit more than we paid in makes it a good pooling and sharing deal?

    It isn’t and you can shove it!

    How about the price of petrol rising from 99p per litre
    to £109p in just 6 months.
    If it keeps rising at this rate we are looking at 20% increases per annum. Wow!

    Don’t suppose anyone would know if Scotland’s Oil revenue includes that the Rigs within the 6,000 square miles of North Sea that Labour stole from our Maritime Border?

    Don’t suppose we know what value of Fish came out of that same 6,000 square miles?

    Don’t suppose anyone knows what Scotland’s share cost in
    paying for England’s Falklands War, Kuwait War, Iraqi War, Afghan War.

  61. Lochside says:

    Great exposition of the GERS fraud TAM J. I cannot bear to watch the BBC and STV or read the ‘newspapers’ anymore. I made the mistake last night of watching both channels’re. NS and the Brexit deficit for Scotland and was genuinely floored by the blatant lying and dismissal of her and the obvious truth of what is staring us in the face if the Westmonster lot take us down with them.

    Today has been more of the same..but in reverse, the ‘black hole’ being celebrated gleefully by the assorted judas goats that represent our nation in the media. Sarah Smith, rictus smile intact , Jackie Turd…mock turtle like..rejoicing at the defeat of their country and its people…a grotesque ground hog day of Unionist triumphalism grinding the nats into the dust for having the temerity to get ‘uppity’. Well I’ve got a message for all these Uncle Toms and Thomasinas…we ain’t going anywhere, we’re going to grind your miserable physogs into the dirt very soon…and that day can’t come quick enough.

    September the 18th at Glasgow Green must be the biggest day out yet…let’s show these dirty fuckers that we will never submit!

  62. Grouse Beater says:

    Good dismissal of GERS as irrelevant from Macwhirter, always the most thoughtful of our freelance journalists.

  63. Tam Jardine says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    Thanks Ian.

    Thing is- I am just a wee guy looking at todays GERS spreadsheet without any economic background whatsoever. For STV and the BBC there is no historical context or any kind of detail and we see no-one challenging their simplistic orthodoxy.

    This “Scottish Economy” that is so bad. Here is a wee question for Rhona: Who has controlled it for the last 310 years? And who controls it now? Her answer is presumably Derek Mackay as he was asked on the programme to account for himself.

    He should have told her we have decided to bin trident because it is unaffordable. Or we are selling off parts of the crown estate. Or immediately recalling the Royal Regiment of Scotland to kickstart a massive programme of public works. Or relaxing immigration controls for skilled foreign workers wanting to move here. Or you see that big fuckoff carrier we’re building? We just sold it to the Chinese.

    Then wait for the reaction.

  64. davidb says:

    That internet is just full of useful information.

    I read that Scottish public expenditure is £68.6 billions according to GERS.

    I read that Scottish GDP is £147 without and £157 billion with oil.

    So our public spending is 46.8% of GDP without or 43.7% of GDP with oil.

    UK public spending is 44.4% of GDP ( 2014, Eurostat ). The Average of the EU is 48.1%

    Countries where the spend is higher include Finland, Denmark, Sweden and Austria.

    So I cannot see where we have anything to worry about. We are not outliers by any means.

    There are two kinds of statistics, the kind you look up and the kind you make up.

  65. Ian Brotherhood says:

    To celebrate mark the return of ‘The Great British Bake Off’, vile cybernats are tweeting names for ‘The Great Scottish Fuck Off’.

    So far, there have been two nominations (from meself and x-sticks) and the lucky recipient of our attention was…

    …David Mundell!

    Can anyone catch him? Does anyone care?

    Do you feel strongly enough about anyone to tell them to fuck off?

    Do you live, work – or have an interest, no matter how tangential – in Scotland?

    If so, YOU can tell someone to fuck off too!

    ‘The Great Scottish Fuck Off’.

    On Twitter, right now…

  66. Dr Jim says:

    Anybody notice Derek McKay was so relaxed on Scotland Tonight he was almost asleep
    He looked and sounded like he cared not a jot about anything
    not a worry in the world

    What does he know that we don’t
    Is something about to happen

    I’ve seen Derek like this before verging on the “I’ve got a secret” smuggyness

  67. geeo says:

    Dear Rona,

    Are you deaf, or just an anti independence, agenda driven, anti Scottish, bitter and twisted, harriden ?

    Maybe if you listened to SNP/YES minded guests, instead of talking over them the second they try to answer your repeated dumb questions/statements, you may actually hear a fucking answer, albeit one you surely will not like, as it does not suit your fucked up hateful narrative.
    Yours etc….Scotland.

    P.s….Do not dare complain about being insulted by an offensive ‘cybernat’, not while you act like a deeply offensive ‘brit twat’.

  68. schrodingers cat says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    re ‘The Great Scottish Fuck Off’.

    “Ready, Steady….all together now.. Fuck Off”

    🙂

  69. Sinky says:

    At geeo says:

    I thought the STV interview was fair and much better than most of the BBC’s “glue that holds Britain together”.

  70. Still Positive. says:

    schrodingers cat @ 11.44.

    I second that – Fuck off!

  71. heedtracker says:

    For it is he, one last kiss of Rupert’s ring, lights out.

    Andrew Neil ?@afneil 27m27 minutes ago
    Final fact for night: for 4 years Scotland running a fiscal deficit averaging over £14bn/year. By far largest in OECD as % of GDP. End of.

    Andrew Neil Retweeted
    Frank ?@FrankWelsh2601 45m45 minutes ago
    @Derek_Timothy @dexter_anon @afneil Love how he just swats them away like wee scottish midges.

    We’re so lucky to be able to call FrankWelsh2601, a fellow country man.

  72. Proud Cybernat says:

    What they don’t ‘get’ is that Scotland really has changed–for the better. We have moved on. We have finally realised that the Union of 1707 has been to our detriment.

    But what THEY really don’t ‘get’ is that many of them have remained the same:

    http://imgur.com/AaK19on

  73. heedtracker says:

    Yoonsters are on the way up again, they think. But they know they are on the way out. No one ever said it was going to be easy shaking them off though, kate Bush style.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp43OdtAAkM

  74. Cuilean says:

    Bless.

    God loves a tryer.

  75. geeo says:

    @sinky.

    Being slightly less shit than the BBC, does not a redeeming feature, make….!

    The ‘interview’ was an insult to the intellect of people of Scotland, who deserve much better.

    Anyone thinking that was ‘decent’ needs to give themself a bloody good shake.

  76. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @schrodingers cat & Still Positive –

    🙂

    I’m starting to lose track of who’s telling who to fuck off, so I take that as a sign it’s going well.

    So far as I can tell, Mundell remains hot favourite.

    With Scots in general being so polite, no-one has yet told Ruth Davidson or Kezia Dugdale to fuck off. Plenty of folk would happily express the same sentiment in less ‘industrial’ terms, but ‘The Great Scottish Get Lost’ doesn’t have the same ring to it.

    Smart money is on Jim Murphy – many cybernats are hoping that he’ll make a come-back. Then we can tell him to ‘fuck off’ again.

  77. Tam Jardine says:

    heedtracker

    And the solution for Neil? Not even stasis, not even the status quo- even better: lets leave the largest economic trading area in the world.

    That is literally, in directly opposing the SNP’s desire to remain within the EU, what he wants.

    Shall we hing aboot and see what brexit does to our GERS figures? Whats that you say- a £25 billion black hole? Is that deficit to GDP ratio now 20%? And our population is now not just in relative decline but actual decline now that all the EU folk are drifting away and no-one is moving here anymore?

    No doubt Derek Mackay will be summoned to answer some hard hitting questions.

    One more question for Rhona and our media: who is the Chancellor of the Exchequer who is actually in charge of the UK economy and by extension the notional “Scottish Economy”? I wonder if you actually know his name because I have not heard it or read it mentioned one fucking time today.

    Am pure ragin so I am

  78. Cuilean says:

    Dr Jim

    Of course, he might just have picked magic mushrooms by the light of the full moon or accidentally took too many anti-depressants, to quell the damage from his soul destroying job…

    Maybe he’s on a promise … no, it’s Derek, so maybe not.

  79. Onwards says:

    galamcennalath says:
    24 August, 2016 at 7:51 pm

    Two possibilities …

    1) the honeymoon will indeed end. I do wonder and see this as a good reason to have IndyRef2 while there is an Indy majority in Holyrood.
    ..

    ———

    That’s a good point. The SNP should still do well next Holyrood elections, but if there is no pro-indy majority, it will be pointless.

    The biggest threat is on our own side, encouraged by unionist divide and rule tactics. It was a close call this time around, not helped by short sighted YES campaigners who went out their way to badmouth the biggest party of independence in a futile push for RISE. At least the Greens had a chance of list seats.

  80. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘Scottish Sun’ asking, if Indyref tmorrow, Yes/No.

    via Twitter…

    Dunno how to link directly 🙁

    Currently 64% Yes, seems not to have been up long…

    Please do the necessary!

    Hoots all.

  81. Alex Clark says:

    “Scottish” Sun link.

    https://twitter.com/ScottishSun/status/768583578246602752

    I note that the hysteria has stepped up a notch. Guess we’re doing something right 🙂

  82. heedtracker says:

    Tam Jardine says:
    25 August, 2016 at 12:22 am
    heedtracker

    It’s righteous anger. Norway struck oil in the North Sea at the exact same time England did, now we’ve got a Scottish democracy crushing gant debt, a whole raft of shrieking BBC led media goons and thugs raging at us all because its all Scotland’s fault, even the great MacTernan will chin you, but then we are trying to shake off a toryboy world that does actually own us, lock stock and barrel of worthless Brent crude. They don’t want to give up control of Scotland to anyone, least of all the Scots.

    The real question is, do enough Scots really want to be owned by goons like Andrew Neil and his tory masters.

  83. gordoz says:

    THE LONG GOODBYE – BBC Parliament channel 12.00 – 12.30 tonight.

    Just watched a very informative program about the very protracted length of Brexit negotiations. 3 Speakers making it very, very clear and explaining all the bureaucratic intricacies that make this the case. Its an utter minefield and none were clear that leaving the EU will eventually occur.

    Hope some with more clout on here can tempt Rev Stu to watch it; was a real eye opener to me.

    Joe public hasn’t got a clue what a mess this is.

    Article 50 ??

    They all seemed to think Article 218 is the real ballbreaker

    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A12008E218

  84. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Yoon pimps of British nationalist ideology
    Has it escaped your attention that roughly half of voting Scots are not happy in this unequal ‘partnership’? Your conformity to habitus distorts your perspective and robs you of all humanity. You are indeed, slaves to convention.

    VILE

  85. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. ‘black hole’. Ace. That means we can build a time-machine a go back to prevent the Acts being signed. Of course, this would produce a whole basket of existential paradoxes but I’d be willing to risk it. 🙂

  86. gordoz says:

    O/T

    On John McTiernan issue; after Die Hard series, all his work went downhill. 🙂

  87. defo says:

    Great Scottish fuck off ?
    More apt maybees would be ‘wank off’.
    Elimination via public vote.
    i.e. Good guy, good guy, good guy, wank….
    Toaster Coburn would be a shoe in, what with all the practice down at the cottage.

    Not entirely unconnected….
    Was the glory hole invented so as that repulsive mutants had a chance to get their rocks off too ?

    Will someone, anyone, please let us know when the honeymoon period is over? Thanks in advance.

  88. bugsbunny says:

    Alex Salmond had a 7 1/2 year Honeymoon. His tadger must have been red raw by the end. I wonder what Ruth’s or Kezia’s Honeymoon would look like?

  89. Swami Backverandah says:

    It really is appalling how some Union-supporting Scots and those who choose to reside there are gleeful about the finances of Scotland being in deficit, when the Tory Party in the UK Parliament had a “long-term economic plan’ to return their budget to surplus, championed by the the very same people.

    Not only abhorrent,but evidence of detestable hypocrisy.

    It’s rather like a parent in an abusive relationship championing the necessity of remaining fiscally tied to their partner by pointing at a less-fortunate fiscally-challenged person, and making the case that if they left the relationship they would become more like that person, without acknowledging that that person is their very own offspring.

    It’s rather sickening.

  90. David says:

    Rev Stu, what kind of Natsi are you when you manage to spell Oswald Mosley’s name incorrectly?

    Vile, frankly. 😉

  91. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Yoon pimps of British nationalist ideology
    Would you agree that argumentation analysis is not only consistent with but also necessary for Gramscian approaches to political and policy analysis, including cultural political economy and poststructuralist discourse analysis?
    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19460171.2013.798239

  92. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Yoon pimps of British nationalist ideology
    On the subject of forms without function, other than to project a façades of apparent progress (i.e. yourselves).

    The following ideas should be remembered: a) content comprises people and must be constantly updated through mind shaping ideas and through institutional and community organizational principles; b) form can and must be naturalized in and through content; c) the culture of the link between content and forms could be a cultural pedagogy of the nation.

    http://search.proquest.com/openview/39c698f321770dd94d89fbcc154fbe34/1?pq-origsite=gscholar

    Just in case you need that clarified, Form is the appearance (or significance) of a thing and Content is it’s essence.

  93. CameronB Brodie says:

    Soz…”other than to project a façades of apparent progress towards delivery of the Vow and to tell us the SNP are bad (i.e. yourselves).”

  94. Bugger (le Panda) says:

    My Twitter is totally down.Same for others?

  95. Bugger (le Panda) says:

    test

  96. Alastair says:

    Question – licences to extract oil revenue.
    We understand that there is tax on oil produced that goes to Westminster wee special oil account but does anyone know what revenue has been/is taken and by who for the licences to extract the oil.
    Is it one off payments, and how much, or a regular revenue stream from the oil companies.
    And what comes back to Scotland.

  97. Al Dossary says:

    Re the licenses – I believe it is a one off payment for the acreage. The problem is that the UK Govt do not specify any length of time that it is held for – ad infinitum seems to be the timescale.

    This allowed BP to sit on Claire and Claire ridge licenses from the 1980’s right up to the present developments.

    Contrast that to Norway where you have 7 years to develop the prospect otherwise you lose it. Also the Norwegians will typically have a survey vessel on hire for up to 18 months doing seismic surveys before they offer up the data and the licences to the bidding companies. So they actually know what is there rather than putting trust in the oil companies to be honest with them !

  98. Ken500 says:

    Fifty years of lying Labour. McCrone Report kept secret. Illegal wars, banking fraud, tax evasion etc. Bankrupt Britain. Blair and Brown warmongers. The Tories have put a ‘D’ notice on Chilcot verdict. The military judgement is not being reported. Another betrayal.

    The Accounts of NI (on WOS Twitter) show 2013/14 NI (2million pop) raised £15Billion in taxes and got another £10Billion (deficit). (Approx) same deficit as Scotland. Despite Scotland (5.2Million pop) raising £54Billion. The Scottish ‘deficit’ is the result of Westminster mismanagement of Scottish economy. The majority in Scotland want different policies.

  99. Macnakamura says:

    BBC GMS around 7-45.
    Querying, STV editorial freedom and the gagging of Daisley.
    STV executive says it did not happen.

    Big pot calling small kettle …

  100. Haggishunter says:

    Who listens to their propaganda anyway?

    I talked with my neighbor at the weekend, ‘a normal working man’, not interested in politics who stated that the BBC, and all the rest are run by an establishment cleech to protect their interests and position, and hes sick of hearing their lies and pish.

  101. davidb says:

    The Oxford dictionary has a big survey to find the most disliked word in English. Its easy to submit a word. They ask your age, location (UK only alas) and gender. Nothing else.

    I submitted the word “British”.

    Do join in folks. That must a fairly unpopular word everywhere in the “Empire”.

    http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/one-word-map/#

  102. Dr Jim says:

    We used to be a Country then a State then a Region of the UK now Gemma Doyle on Radio Scotland describing Scotland as a Community

    It makes us sound like the local Church group or the Muslim Community which is another distasteful phrase

    She says that’s why Owen Smith gets us because he’s from the Welsh Community

    I’ll just stick with the SNPs description “People of Scotland” definitely better than one of a Community which used to be something you joined not who you are

  103. Jackie Bird is lady Haw Haw.

  104. Les Wilson says:

    This morning on EBC the rhetoric and propaganda against the SG is rapping up considerably.
    From dinosaur labour Davidson when talking about Corbyn ends up slagging off the SG, to returning to how terrible the Gers report was, worse than Greece according to them.

    The highest deficit in the euro zone. Which is no way correct, but that is how it is portrayed to belittle us.

    WE are engulfed in BBC propaganda where they leave no stone unturned to try and damage our elected government.
    Really, really something needs done. This is not just a democratic deficit, it is an utter outrage. It can’t go on.

    We the people need to do something, the SG need to do something,
    If we cannot get any media coverage then we need a mass of BBC negatives spread across social media. Also restart the PQ gatherings. With many placards from now on.

    We all need to rise to the occasions and do our bit to constantly expose the state broadcaster for what it really is, and that is utter shit.

  105. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Listening to radio in background, getting the weans ready for school, usual chaos, ‘casual’ listeners to GMS will have taken the following from this morning’s 2nd part of their ‘special report’ on Govanhill…

    ‘Nicola Sturgeon’s constituency…cockroaches, fleas, bed-bugs..discarded mattresses being taken off the street and re-used by unlisted landlords…’

    It’s often said that radio ‘paints better pictures’ than television.

    Someone made an executive decision to commission this ‘journalism’.

    Who was it?

    Why Govanhill?

    Why now?

    What is it meant to achieve?

  106. Macart says:

    The massed commentariat and punditry of the UKs press. Or as I like to call them, mendacious, mercenary, two faced, hypocritical baw bags. There’s plenty of these creatures lining up out there. They’ve all done their bit for coin and the ol’ red, white an blue.

    Not once stopping to consider the effects of their bought and paid for guff. Worse, maybe they did. Maybe they did know exactly the effect they hope to achieve and simply didn’t give a shit about the pain, the hurt, the fear they cause others.

    Well basically at this point, bollox to them and the horse they rode in on. GERS IS NOT a snapshot of the Scottish economy under a Scottish government. Its a snapshot of the Scottish economy under the management of the Westminster system of government, based upon source material they supply themselves. It was created as a campaign political tool to beat opposition parties over the head with back in 92 and even with improvements in attribution over the period, it is still used as a political tool to this very day.

    The real insult upon injury is that these people still, even now, insist that it is a reflection upon Scotland’s people, our abilities to govern and manage the finances and resources of an independent Scotland and our right to do so. Aye apparently they don’t reckon that folk can do their own homework these days and figure out for themselves the source and purpose of a thing.

    If GERS is doom and gloom, there is one and only one guilty party and that is the folk who manage your finances and resources. That would be the Westminster parliament and the government of the day.

    Maybe just me, but if someone took my money and made such a complete clusterfucking mess of its management, I’d be looking to change the staff up a bit by this point. As in sack their sorry arses and appoint someone closer to home who could use a calculator.

    Or, GERS is simply a political tool, isn’t all its cracked up to be by those who employ it and the image somewhat is brighter and better than you’ve been led to believe. In which case these same people have been attempting to mislead the public for their own reasons.

    Again, maybe just me, but I’d be looking to remove folk like that from my employ. You kinda hope you can trust your employees, yes?

    So what is it? Those who manage our fininaces, our economy are inept beyond words, or they are liars seeking to pilfer your goodies? Maybe both. Either way, its time to change up the staff and lose the deadwood.

  107. Macart says:

    That would be ‘finances’ in the last para. (sticky keys this morn and don’t ask m’kay?)

  108. galamcennalath says:

    davidb says:

    “I submitted the word “British”. Do join in folks.

    http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/one-word-map/#

    Done!

    It only needs about 30 more votes to get noticed.

  109. louis.b.argyll says:

    davidb says: 8:32 am
    The Oxford dictionary has a big survey to find the most disliked word in English. Its easy to submit a word.

    How about asking JK ROWLING’S twitter followers?

    Would it be the C word? One of JK’s favourites.

  110. From this morning’s BBC News Where We are, all 2 1/2 minutes of it in total, on 3 1/4 hours BBC England’s hegemony fest over breakfast.

    “ An investigation by BBC Scotland has found that Labour exploitation is commonplace in the heart of the First Minister’s constituency and that exceptional levels of poverty are being made worse in Govanhill by overcrowding’
    Lucy Adams reports:
    Parts of Govanhill are ranked as the most deprived in the country. (shot of broken window)
    Figures obtained by the BBC show that a study of Local Roma people (shot of boarded up windows)most were working but more than a third were receiving less than the minimum wage.
    Local people said that they were happy to work for as little as £3 an hour.
    Many families are living in below tolerable conditions (shot of damp rotting skirting boards and plaster crumbling ceiling) with infections of cockroaches, rats, and bed bugs.( another shot of crumbling plaster and boarded up window, from the inside this time)
    Lawyers say exploitation of the migrants community is rife(shot of an abandoned tattered mattress, an old pushchair, and a big community wheelie bin ) and local agencies are working together to improve conditions’.
    128 words.
    This is apparently what BBC PQ describes as a ‘BBC investigation’. My arse.
    The message being, the FM’s constituency, slums, immigrants, sweat shop exploitation, slave wages, streets littered with mattresses, and stuff, are all ”commonplace in the heart of the FM’s constituency’. QED it is all her fault. SNP Bader than ever.
    What a pile of toe jam.
    Why bother BBC Outpost?
    I have seldom transcribed such a frankly childish poor written badly edited piece of junk.

  111. manakamura says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    25 August, 2016 at 8:41 am

    ‘Nicola Sturgeon’s constituency…cockroaches, fleas, bed-bugs..discarded mattresses being taken off the street and re-used by unlisted landlords…’
    =======

    The piece was headlined with Nicola Sturgeon but the actual report never mentioned her, spoke to her but the report itself was about seems to be a combination of social problems in that part of Glasgow.
    It gave a voice to some Roma people, community workers who gave a mixed view of life in Govanhill. It highlighted the underpaying of workers by exploitative employers and poor living conditions exacerbated by profiteering landlords.

    I have no complaint about most of it. It dealt with some matters of concern

    I do wonder, however, that someone in editorial control who decided that the headline was to highlight guilt by association.

  112. Edit: the ‘poor written’ is deliberate to reflect the bad habit of broadcaster to us adjectives instead of adverbs these days. Too subtle?

  113. Les Wilson says:

    One thing more that WE might be able to do in highlighting the Scottish curse that the BBC is now, could be a crowd founded large poster campaign.

    Posters of good size in places of prominence could be excellent in making the public aware of just what they are up to.
    Propaganda exists to steal and change your thoughts through lies and manipulation of the facts. It really cannot go on.

    Posters along with a huge social media campaign would be a good way of fighting back. We need to get going.

  114. Tinto Chiel says:

    Tam Jardine: loved your 10.12 from last night. And the whole Union fiasco just proved that the term Scots Nobility is truly an oxymoron. Still amazed they weren’t strung up.

    davidb: snap.

    Ian Brotherhood you’re tempting us with your TGSFO. What a choice! But, working by the “daimen icker in a thrave” analogy it has to be a totally insignificant wee tosser of some kind, so Peerie Mun’ell is the hot ticket.

    Meanwhile, back in my parallel universe, Thought for the Day: “If work was any good, the bosses would keep it for themselves.”

    Brendan Behan? Or a reworking of the Haitian “If work were good for you, the rich would leave none for the poor”?

    By the way, Rev, the Gaelic for honeymoon translates as “the month of kisses”.

    I admire their stoic realism.

  115. Fergus Green says:

    blog.oxforddictionaries.com/one-word-map/#

    Word ‘British’ submitted

  116. dakk says:

    Sky News is almost as bad as BBC running Scotland down.

    They had some Talk Radio host Jonny Gould on saying there was no chance of Indyref2 for at least 10 yrs because our debt will soon be bigger than Greece because of low oil prices.

    That lovely big intelligent man Eamon Holmes said he ‘often wonders how Nicola Sturgeon can hold her head up’ when talking about how ‘they would live off the riches of oil.’

    So we should just hang our heads in shame ,give up,and scrounge.Very aspirational for their fellow Brits these Colonial media types.

    The ignorance of these pompous bastards is breathtaking.

  117. Naina Tal says:

    David B ; Done !
    My vote was “British” but only because “Union Jack” is two words.

  118. AnTeallach says:

    “I submitted the word “British”. Do join in folks.

    http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/one-word-map/#

    Oh dear,my finger slipped and I seem to have submitted the word several times . Maybe that might happen to you too.;)

  119. Tinto Chiel says:

    “If GERS is doom and gloom, there is one and only one guilty party and that is the folk who manage your finances and resources. That would be the Westminster parliament and the government of the day.”

    The crux of the matter, Macart. It needs to be hammered home by our spokespersons whenever they get the chance but I’m not hearing it.

    By all accounts last night Reporting Scotland was an orgasmatron of delight over our £15 billion “deficit”.

    Can they get any lower? Or are all the mirrors in PQ removed so people don’t die of shame?

  120. Les Wilson says:

    dakk says

    “Nicola Sturgeon can hold her head up’ when talking about how ‘they would live off the riches of oil.”

    Has Nicola ever said that? is not we need to make complaints to Sky, big time.
    Can anyone tell me if she ever did?

  121. Macart says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    ‘Can they get any lower?’

    To shamelessly pillage and mangle a famous movie line –

    Our detractors in the media (which would be most of them) could limbo dance under a ‘snake’s ass in a wagon rut’ and clear it easily whilst waving their arms above their heads.

  122. liz says:

    Yesterday on twitter thought I was about to lose it.

    Andrew Neil normally reasonably truthful was outright lying.

    Today I feel better, the battering SNP/SG got yesterday surely must show how scared the Yoons are.

    Has there been a poll showing increased support for Yes, I damn well hope so.

  123. Ken500 says:

    Scotland is paying back nearly £4Billion on £8Billion of borrowing. Interest rates of 50%? How much is 0.5% of borrowing over 10 years.

    Sky News forgot to add the £83Billion of borrowing on tax revenues of £461Billion in the rest of the UK. Or the 60/80% tax on the Oil sector when prices had fallen 75%, imposed by Westminster. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. It is now 40%. The Oil price only needs to be $60 to increase revenues.

  124. Graeme Doig says:

    Anyone else hear the abysmally weak performance from Derek Mackay on gms this morning.

    Not good enough.

  125. Lochside says:

    ‘Call Kaye’…the day after rubbishing Scotland and its people…She has a sneaky Corbyn v Jones charade. The real message though is …will Scotland return to Labour?…..cue all the paid dupes to take side swipes at SNP ‘keeping the tories in power…blah blah’….while never really addressing the fact that the ‘Branch’ up here is mute and ‘led’ by someone with the voice of a ten year old and the brain of a two year old.

  126. Andrew McLean says:

    manakamura says:

    25 August, 2016 at 8:41 am
    “I do wonder, however, that someone in editorial control who decided that the headline was to highlight guilt by association.”

    I was having a drink with an old pal who used to write the headlines in the Herald , I asked the same question so almost straight from horses mouth. Yes.

    Nicola is click bait, right up their with royal babies, any young royal wife, and the queen herself. Its almost a compliment.

  127. Ken500 says:

    The Scottish Gov is spending £10Million? in Govan on a housing improvement project. More funds invested in shipbuilding.

  128. Les Wilson says:

    Ian Lang Tory, should be interviewed by Wings on how he created Gers to work against any rise in Scottish aspirations.
    However, I am pretty certain the creep would rather hide under the blanket than explain his rationale to us.

  129. No Cheese Here says:

    Labour contest.

    It is the SNP fault. Call Kaye appears to ignore that Labour is in deep trouble in England as well. This is the SNP’s fault. Listening to callers supporting Labour they are in denial. 1 MP, 3rd in Scottish elections.

    Why won’t people vote for us? It is the snp fault.

  130. Ken500 says:

    Andrew Neil lies for the BBC for £1/2million+ salary. Thatcher’s henchman. Thatcher illegally and secretly took the equivalent of £Billions of Oil revenues and ran down Scottish economy. Used the Oil revenues to build up London. Canary Wharf and Tilbury Docks. Thatcher deregulated Banking and sold of utilities. Now owned by foreign State companies. The EU are going after tax evading US multinationals. Apple, Starbucks etc. The reason the Tories wanted out of the EU to continue tax evading.

  131. Training Day says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    STV tried the Govanhill hellhole schtick prior to the Holyrood election this year. Same slant, FM’s constituency etc., with stock footage of rats running up drainpipes followed by horrified screams from ‘ordinary’ constituents.

    And you’re right, it’s the ‘casual’ listener or viewer that’s the target. The colonial media has basically given up worrying what those in favour of Scottish self-determination think of their output. They know we will deconstruct their lies. Those who can’t or won’t make that effort though..

  132. Andrew McLean says:

    Graeme Doig says:9:27

    Well it was clear the impartial BBC spokesperson had history, maybe he gave her a knock-back, we are always told how impartial they are, so it can only be unfrequented love or a lover scorned.

    I Think we should be told.

    Also not helpful was the poor quality of microphones at the BBC, you know only the cast offs from big brother in London are good enough for us Jocks. The only thing I remember the BBC splashing out on when building Pacific Quay was the internal secure doors, a higher standard than you would thought, I think they are expecting to be stormed by an angry mob!

    Gary Robertson gave the two labour guys enough rope, and they duly hung each other, so not all bad!

  133. Stoker says:

    Rev wrote:

    “And since we’d rather watch “Suicide Squad” again than spend any more time going over the arguments about GERS (and trust us, readers, we don’t say that lightly),”

    There really is no accounting for taste, eh!
    _____

    Scottish Politics – Second edition
    http://archive.is/O91qn

  134. louis.b.argyll says:

    With every unionist attempt, to slander HALF OF SCOTLAND, resolve strengthens.

    Encouragement, is knowing that while we turn the other cheek, power has shifted towards those seeking a better nation.

    What the hell has been going on for the last 300 years.?

  135. Valerie says:

    Oh dear, Rev not impressed with Derek Mackay on GERS this morning. Seems he got a drubbing.

    Have to say Derek is good when on a script, maybe not so good when nifty footwork required.

  136. Stoker says:

    “Choosing a new leader, preferably not tainted by the Westminster expenses scandal, would have removed the unpopularity of Gordon Brown and offered a fresh honeymoon period – while retaining Alistair Darling as Chancellor could have answered the second concern. Going to the country and seeking an early public endorsement that Gordon Brown avoided could have won the public’s respect and wrong footed the Tories.”
    http://archive.is/VJ8t8

    What is the master of disaster, Brown, up to these days?
    Going through a divorce perhaps?

  137. Legerwood says:

    Here is another example to add to the ones predicting the end is nigh for the SNP. From the Herald’s letters page today:

    “The SNP has missed its chance and is now a busted flush”

    Clearly the headline writer reads WiS and thought they would add to the collection

  138. Les Wilson says:

    The Unionists have learned by their last mistake of not realising how potent the cry for Scottish Independence actually was.
    They never thought they were in any danger, note the panic as their lead dissolved.

    So this time they are out the box fast, and with a “just in case scenario”, they truly fear that this time they could lose.
    So they feel to be sure, the degrination of all things Scottish must start now. It is a sign of their fear of defeat.

    Propaganda plus, is now firmly underway, solely because of their fear of defeat,as there is no case for the Union that cannot be taken apart. They know that, so doom and gloom is their is their only weapon of importance.

    It only shows what Westminster really thinks of Scotland, something more and more people see, this Union is there not for Scotland to be a fair partner but to be surrogate to English will. A source of too many things to mention that suit them fine, Scotland has just to suffer what is no longer a Union, actually never really was. It was, and is now, an occupation.

  139. scav says:

    I don’t think lazy writing and tired cliches will ever be in short supply in political reporting.

  140. Effijy says:

    Wow!
    I’ve tried to give up EBC Propaganda Radio in the morning,
    but stupidly tuned in earlier today.

    Quite incredible how crass the Scotland Stupid, Too Poor,
    Too Wee broadcasting was going this morning.
    Completely took my breath away just how obviously biased the whole event is.

    We had 2 SLABBERS on to talk about Corbyn Vs Smith, who threw in the Comment that Greece is in better financial shape than Scotland.
    This garbage of course isn’t challenged as this crap is music to their ears and essentially the reason that they broadcast.

    We had Hailey almost talking to Derek MacKay from the SNP.
    She would ask him a question about how bad SNP are, and as he was working through his answer discrediting her claims,
    she forces her way in to stop his answer and go off completely at a tangent?

    She is horrified that SNP would break up the BBC Monopoly,
    and her over paid job, by working toward Independence, but she accused Derek of incompetence as their manifesto for Independence should have been printed in the Summer?

    It was just like some Banana Republic Dictator had given his mate down the pub control of the national radio station to ridicule any opponents that he might have.

    Pathetic, embarrassing, demeaning, and patronising BBC.

    We have got to remove these Lord Haw Haw Broadcasters from our country ASAP!

    Please sign the petition below for a public inquiry into Blatant BBC Bias.

    https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum

  141. Hamish100 says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-37175848

    England’s school results have declined.

    Tank commander and Kez please explain? This is England.

    Oh it’s the SNP fault- got it.

  142. Smallaxe says:

    Farage speaking at Trump rally in Mississippi
    Farage’s visit comes as Trump continues to struggle in the polls, and the conservative British politician also sought to encourage Trump supporters not to despair, pointing to polling in the UK that hinted at defeat for the referendum to leave the EU.
    “And actually they were all wrong,” Farage said. “Remember, anything is possible if enough decent people are prepared to stand up against the establishment.” Decent Racists? FFS!

  143. heedtracker says:

    Dr NO! says read this, coffee time with toryboy zoomers is always nice, you’re British, shadap, SNP bad, independence bad, vote NO, in fact just don’t vote, emigrate, OZ is nice, you’re bust, bankrupt, too small, teamGB won all the medals, you can even go to Devon, its a toryboy world, “So why risk it? Why not, instead, muddle along?”

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 3h
    Where has all the money gone, Nicola Sturgeon? http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/money-gone-nicola-sturgeon/

    The money’s all gone to England, who really know how to splash the cash, eg

    http://archive.is/qpPAw

    PFI will ultimately cost £300bn
    Repayments on contracts will grow to £10bn a year by 2017-18, say Guardian figures, and government is still striking new deals

    “£301bn is a hell of a lot of money,” Hodge added. “The irony is that we privatised the buildings but nationalised the debts. It’s crazy.”

  144. heedtracker says:

    Two yoons, enraged that not ALL the tory BBC led UKOK media up here is not screaming you’re bust vote NO at us. A picture of a saltire eh, Scotland, land of the cringing twits. Sorry, a British region, of the cringing twits.

    Duncan Hothersall Retweeted
    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 4h4 hours ago
    Today most Scottish papers are leading on the state of the Scottish deficit. The National has a picture of a saltire.

  145. Petra says:

    The BBC propaganda machine has upped the ante this morning. We’ve gone from them making a meal of Scotland’s so-called economic black hole to visiting the black hole of Govanhill. “The First Minister of Scotland’s, Nicola Sturgeon’s, constituency.” “BBC Scotland has carried out an investigation. The constituency is riddled with labour exploitation, poverty, overcrowding etc etc. The situation could worsen with the arrival of even more migrants.”

    Footage of Roma youths wandering down the streets. “A study was carried out on three hundred who live in the area. Although many are working they are earning as little as £3 an hour.” Footage of Asian people, the inside of run down, rotting homes and beds and mattresses dumped in the streets. “Many homes are overrun with cockroaches, bedbugs and rats.”

    No mention of the fact that Govanhill is in Glasgow and that Glasgow City Council is run by the Labour Party: Not the SNP. Glasgow City Council decide where they’ll house immigrants and monitor housing issues, to some extent. They are responsible for clearing refuse off the streets etc, etc. Glasgow City Council working hand in glove with the BBC; leaning towards creating racial hatred.

    And of course we can see where this is going. Scotland overall will become just like Nicola Sturgeon’s Govanhill if you stay in the EU. Scotland will be overrun with poor migrants, cockroaches and rats. Better to stick with the ‘Better Together’ UK rats and parasitical bloodsuckers.

    The Govanhill story is then followed up with a smiley faced news presenter reminding us all that Corbyn and Smith are in Glasgow today for the big debate tonight. You can also “Tune into the Kaye Adams programme for discussion of the debate.” To reinforce the propaganda.

    What’s not mentioned is that Corbyn is going to rave on about Jimmy Reid. No doubt with the main aim of trying to brainwash the audience into believing that he, Dugdale and his Labour Party cronies in Glasgow are the ideological compatriots of the great Jimmy Reid. Jimmy Reid from Govan. Ironic or what?

    Meanwhile on the ‘BBC news where you are … not’, we’ve got Farage the racist who’s moved on from trying to destroy the UK / EU to standing shoulder to shoulder on a platform with Trump the racist, in the US, determined to destroy the planet overall.

  146. Bill says:

    The honeymoon ends when we achieve independence. We’d be free to vote for other parties, I’d even vote Tory cause I’m fed up blue badge holders clogging up Kirkcaldy high street, nearly knocking me over every day.

  147. Hamish100 says:

    MR Bill Mathews is our BBC trust representative in Scotland appointed by HM queenie recommend by a guy called Jeremy Hunt – remember him.

    How does he represent us the people http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/who_we_are/trustees/bill_matthews.html

    He doesn’t. Many would say he is a place man. In fact he has so many jobs in public appointment boards he surely has friends everywhere. How do we get rid of him should we wish!? We don’t we dae as we’re telt.
    That’s how it works

  148. heraldnomore says:

    Press circulations out, but my link victim to the ‘posting too quickly’ with my one finger…

  149. galamcennalath says:

    Derek Bateman has a very good piece which is optimistic, with reservations …

    http://derekbateman.scot/2016/08/25/damned-if-i-know/

    … exploring NO thinking and the need for patience while there are too many unknowns. I take what he says on board …

    “… forcing the pace on a confused electorate which can’t see the downside of Brexit yet and is still coming to terms with a new British leader, is a gamble with the potential to backfire.”

    By contrast I also read a piece by Gerry Hassan rabbiting on, again, about the potential to move to the left prior to Indy and the need to discuss the kind of Scotland we want. This latter I take to mean no hope lefties planning for their great revolution. To my mind this would alienate huge numbers of moderates and cause defeat in IndyRef2 before it happens. Prior to Indy we need consensus ‘steady as she goes’ government in Holyrood.

  150. Breeks says:

    @ Les Wilson 10:16

    Might be right Les, but just for good measure we can add in another ingredient; “We’re the BBC. We can say whatever we like. What you gonna do about it?”

  151. JPJ2 says:

    Derek Mackay is a talented politician but he is not a good choice as a economics frontman in an interview situation
    Ironically, given that he has replaced Swinney, he is no more the best SNP choice for fronting the independence case than the talented Swinney was for SNP leader
    Nicola Sturgron needs to think again on his continuing appointment as this role may well be critical in Indytef 2

  152. Chic McGregor says:

    Petra

    “What’s not mentioned is that Corbyn is going to rave on about Jimmy Reid. No doubt with the main aim of trying to brainwash the audience into believing that he, Dugdale and his Labour Party cronies in Glasgow are the ideological compatriots of the great Jimmy Reid. Jimmy Reid from Govan. Ironic or what?”

    Somewhere I probably have a video of Jimmy Reid from Stuart MacMillan’s adoption night for the 2007 election where Jimmy explains why he left Labour and joined the SNP.

    The phrase which stuck in my mind, and the first instance of its usage I am aware of, was “I didn’t leave the Labour Party, the Labour Party left me.”

  153. jimnarlene says:

    davidb says:
    25 August, 2016 at 8:32 am
    The Oxford dictionary has a big survey to find the most disliked word in English. Its easy to submit a word. They ask your age, location (UK only alas) and gender. Nothing else.

    I submitted the word “British”.

    http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/one-word-map/#

    Brilliant, sitting in third place, keep voting folks…

  154. Grouse Beater says:

    JimnArlene: “I submitted the word “British”.”

    🙂

  155. heedtracker says:

    That photo up there of 50’s US tv sitcom the Honeymooners, Jackie Gleason and Audrey Meadows, is still funny today thanks to silly old Dunc today.

    Duncan Hothersall Retweeted
    Jonny Will Chambers ?@jonwillchambers 1h1 hour ago

    This was the tweet that got me expelled from Labour. I advocated my opinion for the next PM.

    Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 15m15 minutes ago
    Duncan Hothersall Retweeted Jonny Will Chambers
    This is terrible. I hope the decision can be appealed and reversed.

    He’d “advocated” Teresa Thatcher for PM last year, so they kicked him out this year. Why would that trouble silly old Dunc.

  156. Andrew McLean says:

    good link, I submitted BRITISH 5 times!

  157. Grouse Beater says:

    Published late Friday night, a condemnation of composer James MacMillan’s hostility to Scotland’s progress.

  158. shane fraser says:

    Enough .. Already ! Hand In Your BBC Television License, Scotland will then fulfill into a place where it rightfully belongs .. INDEPENDENT

  159. woosie says:

    Dorothy Devine;

    Agree entirely. Those poor English people have propped us up long enough! Time for a ukexit referendum in England!

    If it ever did come about ( no chance, of course ) maybe we’d hear some actual truths in terms of what Scotland contributes for zero return.

  160. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @jimnarlene –

    Nice one.

    Done.

    It’s all very naughty cybernattery, but hey, the current No. 1 is ‘Brexit’.

    🙂

  161. Andrew McLean says:

    Ian Brotherhood says “It’s all very naughty cybernattery, but hey, the current No. 1 is ‘Brexit’.”

    Yes but if 10 of us post 10 times that’s 100, or 15 billion in yoonyville.

  162. scottieDog says:

    @JPJ2
    Yep I’ve been hearing this alot about his performance. Think snp needs a bit more charisma in this line..

  163. Stoker says:

    shane fraser wrote @ 11:29am:

    “Enough..already! Hand in your BBC Television License

    Exactly! Hit the lying propagandists where it hurts. Don’t forget to claim any rebate they owe you folks! Signing commercial petitions gets us nowhere and is nothing more than a con.
    _____

    Crash Broons honeymoon period was more Saltcoats than Seychelles!

    The rise and fall of New Labour
    http://archive.is/48sR3

  164. TheItalianJob says:

    Oh God The pain started today when someone at work said that the UK subsidising Scotland is terrible and we the rest of the U.K. should vote to get rid of the “whinging Scots”.

    Ok I laid into this big time. All the rest of the U.K. politicians at Westminster were united in wanting to keep Scotland in the Uk (with the exception of the grassroots Yes movement and the SNP).

    Unlike the EU ref where all political parties were divided.

    Why oh why did we Scots not vote to leave in 2014. Ok I know no balance in the media newspapers, tv etc.

    I so dispair for Scotland. We as a nation don’t deserve what we are being subjected to by the Uk establishment.

  165. TheItalianJob says:

    @Ian Brotherhood at 11.42am

    @Andrew McLean at 11.47am

    Thanks for bringing a smile and a laugh to me this morning.

    Keep posting.

  166. Grouse Beater says:

    Andrew McLean: “If 10 of us post 10 times that’s 100, or 15 billion in yoonyville.”

    🙂

  167. Stoker says:

    And the “Brits” move into 2nd place at The Oxford Olympics.
    All guns now blazing for that coveted top place gold.
    MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahaha
    http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/one-word-map/#

  168. Clapper57 says:

    I think the REAL honeymoon period is well and truly over……… for the union….. and I like others eagerly await the dissolution of this union so that we can be free to seek a better and healthier and new relationship with our Euro partners.

    Personally I feel abused , used and ……confused…….as to why we stuck around for so long…..this was never a real or fair marriage of nations…..just an unhealthy relationship where one partner was way too controlling and as they say …Divorce isn’t a tragedy……a tragedy is staying in a unhealthy marriage.

    Amen to that.

  169. Dan Huil says:

    @Stoker and shane fraser

    When you think of all the sacrifices men and women have made to win and preserve Scotland’s independence over the centuries refusing to pay the bbc tax is the least we can do.

  170. Sassenach says:

    re Oxford word

    This is easier than ‘Boaty McBoatface’!!

    Cheers me up, no end!

  171. Stoker says:

    @ Dan Huil (12:29 pm)

    Very true, Dan! Non payment of BBC Licence fee, large demo’s against them, discrediting their every word and most importantly educating and alerting the masses to what’s really going on is the only way we’ll kill that particular beast and gain our independence at the same time.
    _____

    Knocking Brexit clean off the top spot
    http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/one-word-map/#

  172. Sinky says:

    BBC Radio Shortbread shortly to be going on about martyr journalist Stephen Daisley.

    Also raised by BBC this morning.

  173. Capella says:

    British now in pole position in the least favourite word Lympics with 341 votes. Well done all.
    http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/one-word-map/#

  174. Lochside says:

    John ‘True Brit’ Beattie discussing plunging circulation figures for all the ‘Scottish’ rags. Eamonn O’Neil…who I’m fast losing faith in…burbling on about online nos. failing to point out that 50% of the population is villified and traduced by these ‘titles’ and this more than anyhing is contributing to their demise. And again the ‘National’ was missing from their survey. We are fast approaching crisis point with the colonial propaganda perpetrators in this sad country.

  175. Capella says:

    Walked on past all the “news” papers in the supermarket this morning. All headlines featured the BLACK HOLE shattering Sturgeon’s dream etc etc. Couldn’t be bothered, and neither could a great many other people judging by the number of papers unbought. I get The National online.

    Eamonn O’Neill has his limitations. But he and Stuart are normally miles ahead of any other broadcaster. Surprised they still have the Media slot and haven’t been replaced by Kezia yet!

  176. Inverclyder says:

    OT

    Here’s a thought.

    With the impending re election of Corbyn as chief Labour bloke of Socialism we’re seeing tears and snotters from the blairites.

    Will the same tactics that have been applied by the media to Scotland and the SNP be applied to a Corbyn led Socialist Labour while the Blairites form a new party that then becomes the New New New New Labour and therefore their new favourite tory party apart from the tories.

    Just a random thought!

    Also, has anyone seen a Lib Dem? Are they still a thing? Maybe check local swing parks for Wee Wullie Rennie. He’s the guy shouting wheeeeeee! while going down the slide.

  177. Sassenach says:

    re:- “Also, has anyone seen a Lib Dem?”

    Wullie was out of the traps, holding on to the usual Tory coat tails shouting ” The GERS show that there can never be independence” – what a wee erse of a man(?).

  178. macnakamura says:

    Sinky says:
    25 August, 2016 at 1:02 pm
    BBC Radio Shortbread shortly to be going on about martyr journalist Stephen Daisley.

    Also raised by BBC this morning.
    =======

    Fair discussion, I thought, numerous mentions of Brian Spanner and so some listeners may go and check him out.

  179. call me dave says:

    Grim reading for newspaper sales says Beattie on shortbread radio. But on-line readers holding up.

    Quite understandable says Dr Eamonn O’Neill and Stuart Cosgrove, loss of advertising via paper base now online. Young folk don’t by papers by and large. etc etc. 🙁

    That’s one way to explain it all.

    Herald, Scotsman and Record sales all going down by about another 10%. Oh well! 🙂

    Meanwhile Daisley unknowing troll maybe! Cosgrove.

    A victim of tribal journalism.
    Prof ONeill says his re-tweets using a spanner was not good judgement and poor form.

    Spanner in the works but unknown tool maybe as Beattie says Que!
    I know nothing. 🙂

    PS1:
    This is more uplifting. Hope it gets tried out.

    https://archive.is/pwKuF

    PS2:

    Not good for all the students but interesting to compare with what we’re doing in North Britain where the SG have taken their eye off the ball … Funny old world init!

    https://archive.is/kmCPx

  180. In what other country would you have three stooges like Dugdale,Davidson and Rennie continuing to support being governed by another country’s parliament.

    Which claims with the release of its GERS figures to have impoverished/bankrupted our Country?

  181. Hamish100 says:

    If only Harry Potter was real to cast a spell on the truth.

    STV has acted properly as any employer should – but why so long?

  182. gus1940 says:

    How about a Bonfire Of The TV Licenses outside Pacific Quay.

  183. Marie Clark says:

    Do you ever feel the world or more particularly the UK is gaun tae hell in a hauncairt.
    I feel somedays I’m living in a parallel universe. It’s surely is groundhog day with these GERS figures. I mean the yoons have run our business in Scotland for over three hundred years, but it’s oor faut it’s in a big mess, no theirs.

    Silly me SNP BAAAAD.

    O/T guys how do you get an avitar to appear here on wings. Help, somebody, anybody. Please.

  184. Effijy says:

    I see the Daily Redcoat circulation is quoted at 166,500.

    That is good news for Scottish democracy and Independence.

    The rate of diminishing sales should see them selling less than 100,00 copies per day come Indy Ref 2 in 2019.

    They are gearing up so that you can go on-line to let them lie to you and access your favourite scaremongering stories.

    Bless!

  185. Les Wilson says:

    Breeks says:

    Well I have made a couple of suggestions in my numerous posts today.

  186. Gary45% says:

    gus1940@1.39.
    Great idea, can I bring a fake licence along to burn? as I stopped paying it, and watching live TV nearly 2 years ago.
    Stayed at a hotel a few weekends ago, and between I think 30 channels, I could only watch Dave as the rest were SH*TE.

  187. Taranaich says:

    A companion piece to the Never-Ending Honeymoon: the Never-Beginning Fightback!

    https://wildernessofpeace.wordpress.com/2015/08/07/the-labour-fightback-starts-here-no-here-wait-what-about-here/

    “Dundee, Scotland’s fourth-largest city, is a textbook example of how Labour is attempting to fight back in this Scottish parliament election.”
    – Matthew Tempest, 20th April 2007 (when Labour were in government at Westminster and Holyrood)

    “Here at Aviemore, the fightback has begun. It’s time to go to work.”
    – Wendy Alexander, 29th March 2008, Scottish Labour conference

    “We have a job to do and the Labour fightback starts right here, right now.”
    – Margaret Curran, 8th July 2008, before the 2008 Glasgow East by-election (she lost)

    “And then there’s the message from the Scottish Labour Party’s general secretary, Colin Smyth, who appeals for help from supporters to aid Labour’s campaign to win the UK election, which he calls “Operation Fightback“… To use that old political line, Labour say – the fightback starts here.”
    – Andrew Black, 27th March 2010 (when Labour was in government at Westminster)

    “Labour’s fightback has begun. We are ready for the fight.”
    – Ed Miliband, 29th October 2010, at the Scottish Labour conference (it didn’t work)

    “Labour’s fightback has started right here in Inverclyde – my hometown. ”
    – Iain McKenzie*, 1st July 2011, after the 2011 Inverclyde by-election (Labour hold, but on a fraction of David Cairns’ majority from just the previous year)

    “The fightback starts here!”
    – David Martin, 11th September 2011

    Vote sent away for @IanDavidsonMP for deputy leader @scottishlabour The man the SNP dont want. Get voting. Let the fight back begin
    — Kevin Lindsay (@kevlindsayaslef) November 29, 2011

    “Fightback begins as Scots Labour leader names team”
    – The Herald, 20th December 2011, after Johann Lamont’s election

    “And let no one underestimate the determination of Scottish Labour to regroup, to reform and to fight-back.”
    – Iain Gray, 26th September 2011, resignation speech

    “I honestly believe that each of you in this room has a real and significant contribution to make to our fightback.”
    – Douglas Alexander, 19th November 2011

    “Scottish Labour Conference: the fight-back has begun”
    – Margaret Anslow, Executive Committee member for Scotland, 1st May 2012, after the Scottish Labour Conference

    “There have been many highs in my time with the party, including helping deliver by-election and General Election victories and the recent local elections has shown that Scottish Labour is beginning the fight back after the disappointment of the last Scottish Parliamentary elections.
    – Colin Smyth, 18th September 2012 (in his resignation statement)

    “Colin has been a dedicated, loyal and hard-working servant of our party over the past 10 years. He has given me great support in my first year as General Secretary and delivered a fantastic fight back in the Scottish local election this year.
    – Iain McNicol, General Secretary, 18th September 2012

    “The Scottish Labour leader will launch a fightback at the Labour annual conference in Manchester, which will also hear Ed Miliband declare that only Labour can save the United Kingdom from the Nationalist threat to break up Britain.”
    – Johann Lamont, 2nd October 2012

    “I look forward to leading the Scottish Labour fight back across North Ayrshire and welcome the opportunity to meet as many constituents as possible to hear their concerns and their priorities for the future.”
    – Margaret McDougall, 29th April 2013

    “Labour’s Fightback”
    – title of a Fabian Society paper by Andrew Harrop, 28th June 2014

    “Sky News, speaking in Edinburgh, told us that the success of “Labour’s fightback” in Scotland was due to Gordon Brown, Labour’s “most vocal campaigner alongside Jim Murphy of course.””
    – Sky News as recorded by Craig Murray, 6th May 2015, two days before the election

    “Scotland needs a strong Labour Party and our fightback starts tomorrow morning.”
    – Jim Murphy, 8th May 2015, after the 2015 General Election (he lost his seat and resigned as party leader)

    Here’s why Megan joined. You should get involved with the fightback too: ?http://t.co/1kxSavWAH1 pic.twitter.com/sS8J0atirE
    — Scottish Labour (@scottishlabour) June 2, 2015

    ‘The fightback starts now’ – really glad @CommunityUnion have nominated @kdugdalemsp for Scottish Labour Leader! pic.twitter.com/SlcIyABOR5
    — Kate Dearden (@kate_dearden) July 1, 2015

    Always a favourite of mine, this from now-former Inverclyde MP Iain McKenzie after his by-election win in 2011:

    With a result like this I think we can safely say the SNP bandwagon has ground to a halt. Labour won this election because we listened hard and took nothing for granted.

    This is the start of Labour’s fightback and there will be a lot more listening to do over the coming months and years.

    Remember, only weeks ago the SNP came within 511 votes of winning here, but tonight the voters of Inverclyde have rejected them – this time giving myself and the Scottish Labour Party not a 500 majority, but over 5,000 of a majority.

    http://archive.is/vKw7Y

    Funny how things go around…

  188. chasanderson200 says:

    Vote British……
    This came up when 37 pals had just turned up for lunch at my wee cottage: to a man(and two ladies) they ALL voted for the word “BRITISH”!!!!!!

  189. chasanderson200 says:

    Vote British,

    Would you believe it!!!! Another ten pals have just turned up for afternoon tea and scones and they have voted “BRITISH” as well!!!!!

  190. Stoker says:

    Marie Clark wrote:

    “guys how do you get an avitar to appear here on wings. Help, somebody, anybody. Please.”

    As far as i’m aware Marie you do it by registering via here:
    https://en.gravatar.com/

    I’ve tried but they keep telling me i already have registered etc.
    News to me! 🙁

    Good luck!

  191. chasanderson200 says:

    Wee Willie Rennie’s whereabouts.
    I suggested him for the part of SUNNY JIM in a remake of the Vital Spark over on Off Topic just a few days ago. Maybe he is away for an audition and been kidnapped by Para Handy. (We live in hope).

  192. Clapper57 says:

    @Taranaich says:
    25 August, 2016 at 2:02 pm
    “A companion piece to the Never-Ending Honeymoon: the Never-Beginning Fightback!”

    Yes Taranaich , but let’s call a spade a spade….it’s really the Never-Ending Spin…is it not.

  193. Marie Clark says:

    Thanks Macart & Stoker. We’ll see if it works now. Cheers.

  194. crazycat says:

    @ Petra (and others)

    Jeremy Corbyn is delivering the Jimmy Reid Memorial Lecture in October, not today. The result of the leadership contest will be known before he gives the lecture.

  195. Inverclyder says:

    chasanderson200

    Sunny Jim?

    More Like Pessimistic Peter!

  196. Lochside says:

    Excellent post Petra..and Gus 1940…I suggested mass non payment and mass demos doing so a while back..to the sound of silence. One other thought: why is a feeble performer like Derek Mackay doing the job that Ivan McKee would excel at ? The SNP are repeating the same errors of pre REF…wrong people in the firing line..or are they so stuck for talent?

  197. Fred says:

    @ chasanderson, whit kinda hoose is that?

    @ grousebeater, anent James MacMillan the composer. The bare-scuddied emperor isnae in it!

  198. David says:

    @ Taranaich:

    The first rule of Labour Fightback Club is: You do not talk about Labour Fightback Club.
    The second rule of Labour Fightback Club is: You do not talk about Labour Fightback Club. You let the Scottish media talk endlessly about it for you.

    🙂

  199. chasanderson200 says:

    Fred

    F/n crowded!! Ahm posting this from the garden.
    Lol

  200. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Mate, why do you always refer to yourself as “we” when there’s only one of you?”

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/contributors/

  201. Inverclyder says:

    In Scotland. While Labour continually go on about the fightback starting / has started / will be starting soon, everyone else has moved on.

    Irrelevant, out of date, out of step and fighting campaigns from when they were in power. They don’t have any leadership or direction and anyone would be hard pushed to say where they stand on anything.

    I believe they are incapable of any form of fightback any more and the Corbyn vs Smith saga will end up in a split.

    Only then will they be able to form a new Pro Indy Labour Party in Scotland while the blairite zombies continue to fight against any further devolved powers for Scotland, for By Elections in the 1990’s and for failed “New Labour” policies while shouting SNP Bad at everyone and anyone.

    They’re like an fart looking for an arsehole.

  202. Macart says:

    @ Marie Clark

    Ginger Rodgers?

  203. Inverclyder says:

    That should have been…

    Only then will they be able to form a new Pro Indy Labour Party in Scotland while the blairite zombies continue to fight against any further devolved powers for Scotland, fight for By Elections in the 1990’s and fight for failed “New Labour” policies while shouting SNP Bad at everyone and anyone.

  204. call me dave says:

    @Marie Clark

    🙂

  205. Petra says:

    @ Crazycat says at 2:36 pm …. ”Petra, Jeremy Corbyn is delivering the Jimmy Reid Memorial Lecture in October, not today. The result of the leadership contest will be known before he gives the lecture.”

    Thanks for that correction Crazycat. I’ve just double checked data in The National.

    ”Slugging it out with Smith on Thursday night at the SECC. Giving his annual lecture on the working class hero, Jimmy Reid, in Govan Parish Church on the 6th October.”

    @ Chic McGregor says at 11:18 am …. ”Petra, somewhere I probably have a video of Jimmy Reid from Stuart MacMillan’s adoption night for the 2007 election where Jimmy explains why he left Labour and joined the SNP. The phrase which stuck in my mind, and the first instance of its usage I am aware of, was “I didn’t leave the Labour Party, the Labour Party left me.”

    I wonder if Corbyn will mention that in his speech / lecture Chic? That is that Jimmy Reid saw the light and dumped the Labour Party for the SNP. He firmly believed in Home Rule even when he was a member of the Labour Party, ”Home Rule was a part of the fundamental principles of the Scottish Labour Party.”

    And as a member of the SNP.

    ”What really chokes me is that some Scots say somehow or another the Swedes, the Norwegians, the Irish they can all govern themselves but we’re so deficient in politics and in governing capacity we can’t do it. What an insult that is. We CAN do it …. I hope it (Independence) comes reasonably soon because I want to see it.

    Jimmy Reid on New Labour or SNP (shame it’s a bit noisy).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AHnnpD4fEo

  206. Tinto Chiel says:

    Completely agree, Petra.

    Comparing Jimmy Reid with Corbyn? Don’t bother BLiSsers.

    Jeremy could never have penned this:

    http://www.gla.ac.uk/media/media_167194_en.pdf

    I return to this essay whenever I despair of our situation.

  207. Footsoldier says:

    I think it is in the Scottish DNA to have so little faith in ones’s own country. It’s not new, it happened in 1707 albeit only the landed gentry had a vote.

    I can think of no other country in the world that signed their independence away for money and that is still the reason why No may prevail. The English and the establishment know this which is why there will be no let up on listening to our own people telling us how crap we are.

  208. Marie Clark says:

    Macart @ 3.29 yep. Ginger Rogers is is. Call me Dave 3.37 aw shucks.

    Now guys, all I need to do is find Fred Astaire and were away.

  209. This follows on from my 09.02 am post on Govanhill Hell in NS Heartland. I’ve posted it on WGD too.
    Stu I appeal to you, how do we stop this sinister nonsense?

    “It gets more sinister and 1984-esque, (Alex.)
    Apparently the Scottish Government introduced a new power under the Housing (Scotland) Act 2014, the Exchanged Enforcement Act which gave Glasgow Council the power to enforce landlords to adhere to H&S rules, and so on.
    Not only that, the Council in partnership with the Scottish Government set out on a scheme to buy to buy 579 flats from private landlords in 4 tenements in Govanhill because of the Rachman-like practices of the unscrupulous landlords.
    The Council put in £5 million, with a further £500,000 for repairs to homes outwith the three streets targeted, and .the SG contributed £4.3 million.
    This was in addition to the £20 million that the SNP had pumped into repairs to private flats in the Govanhill area from 2010 to 2015.
    The Council in partnership with the Govanhill Housing Association devised the South West Govanhill Property Acquisition and Repair Programme.
    Money there, Plan in place. Only that was last year.

    I gleaned this info from the BBC Website dated September 2015.

    Oh,dear. And not a mention of it on any of the TV and Radio bulletins, and abandoned mattresses and buggies still litter the pavements today in the heart of Nicola Sturgeon’s constituency.
    I tried to Google the up to date picture regarding this exciting refurbishment programme but it has all gone quiet over there.

    As I observed earlier, where is Frank Mac, leader of the Council ? Why wasn’t he dragged before the cameras today?
    Where are the legions of Social workers, DWP staff, Immigration officials, Job Seekers Agency, Minimum wage inspectors, while all this is going on?

    Why haven’t the Council cleared this debris from the pavements?

    I suspect that not a little of the answer lies in the fact that Glasgow Labour Tammany Hall is out to cause maximum embarrassment to our FM in her own back yard.
    The Repair and buy project must have stalled somewhere.
    I implore WGD and/or WoS to look into this, since I am too restricted, and lack the resources to follow this up.
    If it is true that there is a joint scheme and £9.8 million in funding, and a North West Property Acquisition and Repair Programme has been in position since the summer of 2015, what’s the delay, and why the fuck did the BBC News Where We Are deliberately withhold this information and twist today’s item into a NS/SNP BAD piece so blatantly? Maybe they are just crap journalist.
    WE really are living in darkening Big Brother Days.
    Shame on you Sally Magnusson and Co.if this is true.”

  210. Petra says:

    A bit of a laugh don’t you think Tinto Chiel? There’s not one Labour politician North or South of the border, now or then, in the same league as Jimmy Reid in relation to intellect, compassion, honesty, passion, decency, empathy, drive, bravery or as an orator (and I’m sure I’ve left some characteristics out).

    I’ve read his Electoral address given to the students at Glasgow Uni too TC. Seemingly it was raved about the world over, especially in the US. Scots appreciated more outside of the UK as per usual.

  211. Petra says:

    @ Jack Collatin says at 8:18 pm …. ”I suspect that not a little of the answer lies in the fact that Glasgow Labour Tammany Hall is out to cause maximum embarrassment to our FM in her own back yard.”

    That’s it in a nutshell Jack. And of course Glasgow City Council (Labour Party) are in cahoots with the BBC.

    As I mentioned in an earlier post Glasgow City Council are to blame for the ‘stinking’ houses, overcrowding, littered pavements, bed bugs, cockroaches and rats and yet no mention was made of this. No one from the Council was questioned as to what is going on. Surprise, surprise.

    Nicola Sturgeon / SNP have ploughed millions into that constituency and yet the Council can’t even find the time to uplift beds and mattresses from the street. Aye right. It wouldn’t surprise me in fact to find that someone from GCC tips the BBC off when the time is right to take photographs.

    The Scottish Government should also carry out their own investigation in the area with the Roma to find out if they are earning £3 an hour and who exactly is paying this level of wage. I notice that the BBC didn’t mention who is paying such a wage. Maybe it’s GCC? Call the BBC’s bluff if they are lying.

    What really gets to me is the fact that this type of colluded ‘press’ is going to create divisions between groups of people, no doubt racist attacks and of course scare people into voting to stay in the Union.

    I’ve been saying that we should start marching / standing at our Town Centre meetings with placards / banners outlining facts / highlighting lies such as in this case, ” Glasgow City Council are in charge of Govanhill. Stop blaming the Nicola Stugeon for slum conditions.” Or whatever. Words along these lines.

  212. Tinto Chiel says:

    Och, Petra, it’s in the “you don’t laugh, you gotta cry” category. At least it’s on the Internet for always.

    I was on other threads and missed your comment.

    Jimmy had the guts to realise things had changed and so he had to also. A huge step for a sincere Communist.

    Thankfully BLiS______d lack that intelligence.

  213. Petra says:

    Yeah what a man TC. It’s people like Jimmy Reid that make me proud to be Scottish and as you say his memory and words will live on …. forever. And forever be a comfort for many knowing that there is more of the ‘same’ out there like ourselves.

  214. Petra, I firmly believe that we have entered a very dark place indeed when Sally Magnusson, Brian Taylor, and Co., actively cooperate with crooked politicians to pervert the truth in order to meet their own selfish, greedy, power seeking ends, and Scottish citizens suffer as a consequence. If those poor folk have been living in squalor because of this, I hold the media equally to blame.
    If indeed, Glasgow Labour has deliberately delayed this scheme to renovate and purchase these homes from ‘rogue’ landlords, then the job of the press is to expose and condemn those crooked politicians, not collaborate with them because of their own fiery devotion to the corrupt Union with a failed English state.
    Why was the patently obvious link with this £9.8 million Repair and Purchase scheme not made at any time by BBC TV and Radio at many bulletins throughout the day?
    It goes beyond supporting Unionism by default because they are the UK state broadcaster. It borders on criminal intent and a deliberate attempt to lie by omission about actual events, and concealing the truth from the citizens of Scotland.
    We are talking millions here. Where is the money? Why hasn’t it been spent yet?
    The BBC know surely?

  215. Tinto Chiel says:

    Petra: amen to all that.

  216. Alex Clark says:

    @Jack Collatin

    You do have a way with words Jack and Wings is all the better for that. Many thanks.

  217. Cheers, Alex. And so to bed.

  218. Alex Clark says:

    “And so to bed”

    See what I mean! Samuel Peyps diaries 1660 LOL

  219. Bill says:

    OT

    Lochore council by election, council seat fell to Labour.

    http://election-data.co.uk/by-election-preview-25-8-16

  220. Alex Clark @01.03 am.
    Watching Smith crash and burn at the Glasgow Hustings:

    “I went out to Charing Cross to see Major General Harrison hanged drawn and quartered; which was done, he looking as cheerful as any man there could be in that condition.”

    The very same Sam Pepys.

  221. Kevin Sim says:

    Gerry Hassan.

    ‘Peak SNP’ and how Scotland and the UK are changing

    Gerry Hassan

    New Statesman, April 28th 2015.

    and

    Have We Passed Peak SNP? After the Three Dreams of Scottish Nationalism

    Gerry Hassan

    Scottish Review, May 18th 2016

  222. Kevin Sim says:

    Both articles can be found on Hassan’s website.

  223. K1 says:

    “At last the skids are under the SNP”

    Aye, is that right…

    The skids are in yer underpants ya daftie.

  224. liz g says:

    K1 @ 4.04 am
    Well said.

  225. Breeks says:

    Can’t find the link and couldn’t do the archive thing anyway, but the Newstatesman also had an article written about Ruth Davidson being the saviour of the Union.

    I read about a third of it trying to figure out if it was a spoof, or written by Ruth Davidson’s mum.

    Then I got to the bit about the Tories about to reconquer Scotland, and knew without a doubt it was all pish. The kind of pish you get when you gaze into a misty crystal ball for a story instead of sending a journalist to investigate it.



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