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The fine print

Posted on March 04, 2017 by

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  1. 04 03 17 07:56

    The fine print | speymouth

354 to “The fine print”

  1. Swiss Perspective says:

    I wish May would give up flogging the useless dead horse she calls “Precious Union”.

    From this side of the Channel it looks more ridiculous by the day.

  2. Smallaxe says:

    I believe it! Because we will be long gone by then.

    Chris, I’m afraid that I’ll have to take points off you for making T.May too good looking!
    🙂

    Peace Always

  3. Lollysmum says:

    And that is exactly how UK gov works.

  4. gerry parker says:

    Great one Chris.

    As ma Da used to say.
    “what’s yours is mine, and what’s mine is me own”

  5. jimnarlene says:

    That’s probably scribbled on the back of the Magna Carta.

    Great toon, Chris.

  6. Marie Clark says:

    Aye Chris, that’s about the size o’ things richt enough. Sigh!

  7. Ken500 says:

    ‘Britain will not gave to pay a penny to leave the EU’. Aye right. It will have to pay £Billions. England/Wales will end up paying more for less. The Tory way. The way to break up broken, busted, bankrupt Britain. The Tories are ridiculous.

    Scotland – NI? will be staying in the EU. Single market.

  8. Pete_McM says:

    Swiss Perspective @ 7:10am

    May is jumping into the erupting volcano clutching her “Preciousss!”

    The “precious Union” bs is strictly for internal consumption. When the Great British Public realise just how thoroughly they’ve been shafted, the GB Government will be busy blaming everything on, the EU, foreigners, Remoaners and the Jocks. In fact, they’ve already begun.

    This is a F..k Up that will go down in history.

  9. robertknight says:

    Q) How do you know when a British PM is telling lies?

    A) They use the words “Scotland” and “Union” in the same sentence.

  10. Dorothy Devine says:

    I agree with Smallaxe – you have made her far too good looking!

    I think the magic word is ‘BEFORE’ – what are they going to do BEFORE Brexit?

  11. Grouse Beater says:

    Brilliant, Chris. Lesson – Read the small print.

    My wife was working yesterday with the radio news playing. As May got into her ‘Scotland the Annoying’ speech I heard her say en passant, “Listen to the state of that”. She gave an ironic chuckle and got on with her work.

    May is as racist as Khan and any Ukip follower. And none of them understand the basic principles of democracy.

    Your weekend reading

    An uber racist at large: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-e9y

  12. Dorothy Devine says:

    It was most interesting to note that not one outlet queried what the wummin’ is going to do , what policies/policy she might have = as opposed to attacking the SNP in the mode of the Buffalo Girl ,” Do your day job yackety yak’ while mentioning Independence every 5 seconds.

  13. mosstrooper says:

    Strange the mind of the Brexiteer. Stating that the UK government should not pay a fee to leave the EU is a virtue and to be lauded yet any comments from the Yessers that Scotland has NO obligation to pay a share of Westminster’s created national debt for the UK are deemed to beyond the pale. It’s a funny old thing the Yoon point of view.

  14. bobajock says:

    Does contain nuts.

  15. DerekM says:

    I can tell when she is lying her lips move.

    Yadayada ya independence blah,no independence blah,borders ye will be skint.blackholes,better together pooling and sharing to make the British nation great again,SNP bad.

    Oh you,you just get to do what we decide,so once we are finished with brexit in about 10 years we might get round to letting you have another fiscal trap.

    Or we might just shut your parliament down since you only got that to keep those beastly foreigners in the EU happy,they kept moaning to that tory lite blair about a democratic deficit,just who do they think they are we are the mother of all parliaments and we decide what democracy is.

    Aye and you bloody thinks so mayhem,just get article 50 signed you pathetic excuse for a politician.

  16. Auld Rock says:

    Hi robertknight – sorry you are nearly right – correct answer is, when a Tory starts talking.

    Auld Rock

  17. Fran says:

    Spot on Chris

  18. One_Scot says:

    Honestly, anyone who still believes anything the Tories or unionists say or promise with regard to Scotland or more powers is living on a different planet.

    If Scotland falls for their lies, fake news and scare stories again, I believe they will put measures in place preventing Scotland from ever being in the strong position we’re currently in.

  19. Iain Carlton says:

    Only thing wrong with the cartoon is that she’s holding the wrong finger up. Should be the middle one to reflect her message to Scotland.

  20. DerekM says:

    To all Labour voters,members and ex members.

    Take a good look,here we have probably the most incompetent tory ever to be in charge of the conservative party,her gaffs are westminster legends,she has practically ruined every department she has been in and had to be reshuffled in a tory
    save face.

    Now look at the PLP,just how useless are they if they can not even land a few blows on this heinous tory government mired in election fraud scandals.

    Take it from this Labour activist of 40 years the red flag died the day tombstone tony and his band of reprobates got control.

    Now we fly a blue flag with a lovely white cross through it 🙂

  21. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Treeza is telling us to cancel IndyRef2, then wait to see how SHE gets on in HER Brexit talks,

    These talks could take two years to complete, then after that, we have to wait again for Treeza to decide which powers will stay at Westminster and which powers will stay in Scotland.

    So it all comes down to trust and that is where this whole Tory plan collapses.

    Nicola, just tell Treeza thanks but no thanks and call IndyRef2

  22. One_Scot says:

    It just shows you what you can do when your government controls the media. The UK not paying their £50 Billion Brexit debt being put out as a good thing for the UK.

    But during Scotland’s Independence referendum, the unionist media and the UK government made big capital out of the fact that if Scotland did not honour its debt, it would be seen as a some sort of Banana republic country by the rest of the world.

    It really does feel like we’re living in some sort of hypocrisy Twilight parallel universe.

  23. galamcennalath says:

    The only people who believe in the Union are Scottish Unionists. The Tories certainly have a quite different notion about the relationship between Scotland and England.

  24. Puzzled Puss says:

    Always look forward to the Saturday morning cartoon, and this one is brilliant! I’m just wondering where she’s parked her broomstick and pointy hat.

  25. Albaman says:

    Did you all noticed as I did last night, how on the B.B.C. main news, reporting on Mays speech, the camera shots were all (two different views, if my memory serves me) from ground (knee) level, thus saving the embarrassment of showing the rows of empty seats,
    Ah the B.B.C. don’t you just love the way they protect the establishment!.

  26. Smallaxe says:

    Puzzled Puss says:

    “I’m just wondering where she’s parked her broomstick and pointy hat”

    In a disabled parking space, of course!

    Peace Always

  27. mogabee says:

    Isn’t there talk of making small print in contracts clearer?

    That’ll be shiny bright says Tory leader of England and Wales. ?

  28. DerekM says:

    och silly me i forgot to mention we are going to destroy the Labour party,just thought i would remind you it not like its a big secret or anything lol

  29. galamcennalath says:

    Treeza is in for a very hard time with the EU. In negotiations you use every lever you can. Does anyone seriously think the EU won’t use the ‘Scottish constitutional issue’ as a stick to beat rUK?

    We are EU citizens who are expressing a desire to remain so. Scotland is the ‘best bit’ of the UK. Wouldn’t surprise me is Scotland ends up one of the main topics of the negotiation, for the EU. Of course the rUK want Scotland’s status off the table completely. Nae chance!

    Hope you all like fireworks, there are going to be months of them.

  30. Nana says:

    Twisted face with a twisted tory heart [if she has one]

    She reminds me of the fellow who played the gormless inspector from ‘On the buses’

    For anyone interested, morning links on previous thread.

  31. DerekM says:

    How bad is mayhem,well i genuinely thought yesterday Christ even boris would be better than this rocket.

    And well that is bad when you think the prince of roasters is a better choice.

  32. mike cassidy says:

    Even the Guardian might just be starting to get it.

    http://archive.is/jZMu8

    “The SNP’s conference comes in two weeks, and there is speculation about Sturgeon accelerating the push for a second vote, and challenging May to defy her. Corbyn and Khan’s rhetoric is being interpreted as an early taste of the approach the Scottish Labour party would take: going down shouting, essentially.”

  33. Calum McKay says:

    british colonialism alive and kicking in 2017!

    The recent reporting of Scottish nationalism as being bad (why? Is never explained) in the british press whilst ignoring that british nationalism even exists, is worth raising to the Scottish public’s attention.

    Imposing your culture upon others, rubbishing others cultures whilst dividing and ruling had been the british way to obtain an empire, and still is in Scotland 2017!

    Those british that do all they can, fair or foul to keep us in this union don’t appear to like our people or culture or frankly anything about Scotland, but for some grand scheme we must submit to their beliefs and will!

    The british are a strange people, its time the mirror was shone on their actions and importantly their nationalism, fortunately brexit appears to be doing that for us

  34. frogesque says:

    I can see T. Rex reintroducing a UK wide (for the moment) Ministry of Fisheries and Agriculture with Scotland getting a population share of any disbursements. There will be no talk of net produce or sea area. Just a there you are Jocks, now get on with it and raise taxes ( ha ha) to give to our wondrous great landowners more of your hard earnt.

    Fisheries, without control of Defense in Scottish waters is a trap. There would be no Icelandic type cod war to protect our rights. Scotland could set quotas but they would be ignored by English, Russian and Spanish fleets.

    Just more May awayday games.

  35. paul gerard mccormack says:

    I kinda sense Nicola’s relative silence on matters recently (other than Khan), is for a purpose. The words dry and powder come to mind.

    Timing is all, but I for one pathetic creature that i am will not wait 2 years for another referendum. Do it and do it now at the conference.

  36. Nana says:

    @Calum McKay

    I enjoyed watching this man shining a light on the British Empire

    Author Shashi Tharoor says Britons suffer from “historical amnesia” when it comes to understanding the history of the British Empire

    https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/837766019540271110

  37. Glamaig says:

    Calum McKay says:
    4 March, 2017 at 10:00 am
    ‘whilst ignoring that british nationalism even exists, is worth raising to the Scottish public’s attention.’

    They are forever saying they are ‘patriots’ and ‘proud of their country’, it seems to be compulsory for UK and unionist politicians to say this in their culture to avoid being branded as ‘unpatriotic’ or even the T word.

    They call us ‘nationalists’.

    However in other countries, the ones they want to undermine, they call them ‘pro-democracy movements’.

  38. Capella says:

    Some excellent reporting on the STory conference in The National such as “Independence, independence, independence”:
    https://archive.is/AulWp

    There’s also comment on the 30% of Tories who would vote for independence, and the mood from the sparsely attended venue.

    Very hesitantly and reluctantly, they concede that independence is something they might even support if the debate was framed “realistically”.
    https://archive.is/cDCt5

  39. starlaw says:

    I hope the speculation of setting a date for indyref2 remains just that.
    We must wait until the way is clear, May must first trigger article 50. after this we are on a new ball park. The Tories will not tell us their negotiating stance, but the other side just might slip the SNP a few crumbs of what is what.
    I am as anxious as the rest to get indi2 up and running but its vital to wait and wait and wait until the time is right.
    And it is coming. The Tories are desperate to rush us into a quick ref. Don’t go anywhere near it .. until we will win.

  40. Tinto Chiel says:

    Calum McKay:”Imposing your culture upon others, rubbishing others cultures whilst dividing and ruling had been the British way to obtain an empire, and still is in Scotland 2017!”

    A bit like this, really:

    “Deprive the people of their national consciousness, treat them as a tribe and not a nation, dilute their national pride, do not teach their history, propagate their language as inferior, imply they have a cultural void, emphasize their customs are primitive, and dismiss independence as a barbaric anomaly.”

    Behold the words of Reinhard Heydrich, SS Obergruppenfuehrer, speaking of the people of Czechoslovakia.

    Kinda spooky, eh?

  41. Nana says:

    She has a lot of bags under her eyes, maybe from sleepless nights

    No 10 ‘deeply worried’ by police investigations into 2015 election spending – report on previous thread

  42. galamcennalath says:

    It will be unwritten Tory policy that Scotland is getting too good a deal and already has too many powers, and this should be rolled back in WM’s favour. It will pervade all their thinking.

    Look at how they tried to trim back on the block grant as part of the Smith fiscal settlement. They were defeated and won’t forget that defeat.

    They are more than willing to discuss special deals for NI, London, Nissan, but not for Scotland. Scotland, by their terms, has already had too many special deals.

    May will not give an inch of ground to Scotland on Brexit. indyRef2 is now 100% inevitable.

    It’s ideological. ‘Scotland needs her wings (no pun intended) clipped’ is Tory dogma.

    The next clash will be the timing of IndyRef2. The Tories won’t want it during Brexit negotiations, we MUST have it during this period.

    Understandably, May won’t want too battles at once, her perception will be that there are two side, the EU and the UK in it’s entirety. Ther reality is, Tory actions have led to there actually being three discrete parties now!

  43. cearc says:

    Galamcennalath,

    Absolutely. The EU27 will be protecting their own best interests.

    The ‘assets’ of Eng and Wales are largely movable. ie. financial services and some industry. These industries are already demonstrating this as they pack their bags.

    Our assets are largely immovable. ie. Oil, gas, electricity (and renewable potential), fishing, whisky, salmon etc.

    So which is of most value to EU27?

  44. heedtracker says:

    Great stuff. Ideology of fine print, should be the tory logo. Everything they say is a lie, everything they do makes the rich richer, but its not lies, check the fine print.

    Labour Isn’t Working, so we get 40, maybe 60+ years of tory rule, and Baron Fluffie of Scotland, at the end of it all and still in charge.

  45. Ian McCubbin says:

    Trust in union, none and UK told Malta too wee too poor to take on independence.
    If we don’t do it this time by UDI or indyref then we have subjection of people in Scotland for next 50 years or so.

  46. heedtracker says:

    Hammer of the Scots, Severin Carrell, says,
    UK
    world

    Scottish independence
    Theresa May lays down independence vote challenge to Nicola Sturgeon
    PM escalates attacks on SNP demand for greater autonomy after Brexit, throwing down referendum gauntlet

    and he gets over ten thousand btl commentators, all commentatorising for rancid old The Graun and their rancid old UKOK zone.

    “What did Mayhem actually say oh wise one Severin?!”

    Check the fine print, its rule Britannia all over again.

  47. Dr Jim says:

    SNP are Baad because eh edyookayshun and eh there’s edukayshun and they’re narrow and ah precious Union eh n edukayshun n oh aye breaking up stuff and separating is Baad for Scotland but good for ah UK n SNP edukayshun is Baad
    and eh well No Surrender!

    Does that about cover it little Ruthie minion, ja mein Tallerfuhrer!

    Now conference lete’s get on with the business of saying as many Baad things about the SNP as we can think of, c’mon who’ll kick us off with some whoppers

    You! over there, yes you, the dead guy! somebody give im a nudge
    I thought there were more buses coming, where are the buses from Hartleypool with the live ones on?

  48. Nana says:

    IndyLive streaming outside tory conf from 11.30am

    https://twitter.com/liveIndyScot/status/837972698437410817

  49. Proud Cybernat says:

    Incisive as ever, Chris. Nice one!

    Wee Ginder Dug on fire:

    “The only reason we call it Unionism and not what it really is is because Scotland-Shut-Up-And-Do-What-You’re-Told-ism takes too long to type.”

    https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/03/04/may-the-farce-is-with-us/

  50. mumsyhugs says:

    Aye, the devil’s in the detail right enough!!

  51. yesindyref2 says:

    May: “I am taking away any power for you to say NO to anything we do at Westminster”.

    “But you said you guarantee no powers will be stripped from Holyrood after Brexit”.

    May: “Exactly”.

  52. Legerwood says:

    I just got a Scotland in Union leaflet through the door.

    Very glossy. Not sure if they realise that the points they make apply equally if not more so to the Brexit debacle.

    The Independent has an article on Mrs May’s speech that makes the point that what she has said also applies to Brexit.

    http://archive.is/anZIk

    Apologies if it has already been posted.

  53. DerekM says:

    @ Dr Jim

    We intercepted them at the border with pictures of Liz and union jack brollies,wee cups with Diana on them and we told them Harry was coming.

    No it wasn`t a lie Harry is the bloke with the van lol

  54. heedtracker says:

    Yesterday’s Ligger Neil BBC vote tory Politics show is worth a watch, Baron Fluffie has a tory fit, and then Angus Robertson gets it from the Ligger too, but then Robertson asks the Ligger an easy one back and he too has a tory fit.

    Watching future Sir Fluffie going nuts is really weird though, as he begins speaking in tongues, tory tongues. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I know the God squad also reads WoS.

  55. louis.b.argyll says:

    I’ve suddenly become allergic to UK nuts.

  56. Macart says:

    Both in word and action the current Conservative government are, by any standard, NOT the friend of the common man and woman.

    Let’s be perfectly clear about the Conservative and unionist party. They are wrong. On every possible level they are wrong. Their methods aren’t caring. They aren’t for sharing and they wouldn’t know true unity or partnership if it jumped up and bit them on their collective arses.

    Unity and partnership require the ability to come and go. They require mutual respect and understanding, care, compassion, compromise and effort. THAT is unity and partnership as humanity understands it the world over. Unity and partnership aren’t about demanding or taking. They aren’t selfish, arrogant or thoughtless. Precisely the opposite.

    In short, the current government of the UK are the bad guys. They are not only wrong in their beliefs, but they are morally in the wrong.

    They willingly cause real harm to those supposedly in their care. To their own population and all for their own selfish agendas. That’s pretty much the bottom line right there.

    They hurt people.

  57. heedtracker says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08h4zx0

    Future Baron Fluffie hysterics commence around 12.00mins. Ligger melt down just after with Robertson. YOU DON’T ASK THE QUESTIONS PAL, I DO. You probably do have to at least try to act like you da man, in tory politics today. Quite butch though, the Ligger.

  58. Fireproofjim says:

    Paul Gerard McCormack.
    Paul, you are not a “pathetic creature”. We are all desperate for Yes2, but I am equally desperate for polls to show a bit over the 50% consistently.
    As Alex said yesterday, when he launched Yes1 the polls were 28% and are now 49%. Looks good but not certain. Wish I knew what to do. We can not afford to lose this one.
    Can only trust Nicola.

  59. heedtracker says:

    Macart says:
    4 March, 2017 at 11:35 am
    Both in word and action the current Conservative government are, by any standard, NOT the friend of the common man and woman.

    Ditto Labour.

    How do you end three Labour terms in office, a UK ruled by Labour, with the most unequal western economy, more money than even a royal prince can spend, slooshing around London and the south east, yet slave wages all over Scotland, and all with Scots Labour prime ministers?

    The idea of letting SLabour back in to power in Scotland is as insane in Scotland, as it is watching a old guy like Corbyn, suddenly flipping from being lifetime member and then President of CND, now backing Trident 2.

  60. stewartb says:

    Two thoughts:

    1) Looking forward to finding out how much the UK will have to pay to the EU as the price of Brexit – nothing according to a House of Lords committee or up to £50billion according to other sources.

    For now let’s split the difference: say £25billion. Scotland’s population share of the cost will be c.£2.1billion but could be twice this. This debt burden on Scotland will be on top of what we already contribute to payment of interest on the UK’s debt which we also didn’t vote to incur.

    Saddled with existing debt payments and with minimal controls over economic levers, it is a marvel that Scotland has survived as well as it has since 2008/9. The reasons are that we are asset rich and have a highly competent government in Holyrood.

    2) Teresa May’s speech in Glasgow is being interpreted as signalling an intention for the Tory Westminster government to become more involved in ‘improving’ matters in areas of policy that are currently devolved. (See for example Craig Murray’s analysis on his blog.)

    What strikes me is that a Tory party looking for central government to intervene more across all parts of the UK is hardly a party likely to have any truck with federalism. This was to be expected but May’s speech would seem to cement this view.

    Hardly conducive to getting cross-part agreement in Westminster for even an initial exploration of Labour’s fantasy fix for the UK constitution.

  61. manandboy says:

    Theresa May is like a novice hill-walker, who knowingly dislodges a rock in order to secure her footing, but doesn’t spare a thought for those coming up the hill behind her.
    A danger to others, people like that would do better to stay at home – which is what Theresa May should do each time she thinks of coming to Scotland.
    May is fast becoming the new Dugdale.

  62. Proud Cybernat says:

    One Nation Tories…

    http://imgur.com/a/MDtpa

  63. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I appreciate Fluffy is a Tory, and, as such we should be setting out to destroy him and his party in Scotland.

    However, I fear for the man’s sanity. He was a mumbling, incoherent wreck as Oor Andra skewered him on the Daily Politics on Friday; his calls for the SNP to take the Indyref2 threat off the table are becoming ever-more shrill and desperate.

    I see poor old Fluffy as being like a concentration camp commander who has been caught (ok I accept a wee bit
    dramatic, perhaps overly-so, but bear with me).

    When Indyref2 is over and Scotland is free, Fluffy will have to go into that Cabinet Room and face the consequences – the rest of the Tories will try to find some way of putting the blame for the break up of: “our precious Union” onto someone other than Mother Theresa, Fluffy will be Patsy 1, Ruthless will be Patsy 2.

    All poor old Fluffy will have to fall back on will be: “I was only obeying orders”. He is an office boy who has been over-promoted way beyond his abilities; Ruthless is an over-promoted PA.

    In an Independent Scotland, he will be unelectable, and, with the blame for the break-up of the Union on his shoulders, he will not even have the consolation prize of becoming Baron Mundell of Mid-Annandale or some such title.

    With him a Tory, you could say Hell mend him, but, he really is fighting for his political life, and losing, which is sad for him.

  64. liz says:

    Spot on as ever Chris.
    Britannia waves the rules as always.
    That’s why there is no written constitution,make it up as they go along.

    @Grouse Beater, I read your ‘taxi rant’ blog.
    I have already tweeted to that girl’s tutor at Stirling Uni & suggested an apology should be forthcoming.

    I think we have every right to say that we were abused by that column.
    I also suggested that she brought Stirling Uni into disrepute.

    Tutor’s reply was – I was entitled to my opinion but she hope I would criticise all abuse.

    Don’t know if they just don’t get how outrageous that ill informed article was or they are hoping it will all go away,
    Pro indy students at Stirling should send in a collective complaint or are some students more worthy than others.

  65. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I must admit, I like Professor Robertson’s new look to his thought control scotland blog. The good prof is now concentrating on talking-up good news for Scotland stories and doing it very well.

    This morning he posted a piece by Mar runnacles for Getty, an analysis of Mother Theresa’s Glasgow conference speech and the implications thereof.

    Well worth reading.

  66. Bob Mack says:

    Make no mistake. Theresa May indicated in that speech that Westminster fully intend to involve themselves even in devolved issues. The impotence of Sewell has enabled them to do so with impunity.

    In effect they are taking charge. If indy fails this time we may not have another chance, They will run Scotland from Westminster.

    Now or possibly never for independence. What a decision of timing Nicolas must make for optimum support being assured.

  67. HandandShrimp says:

    Struth is going to go with an SNPbaaaad speech today.

    The surprise is underwhelming. 🙂

    Still I suppose it means she can avoid talking about all the ghastly policies her party are responsible for UK wide.

    Never forget…the Scottish Tories are Tories.

  68. bugsbunny says:

    Theresa May/May Not give a toss about Scotland and the Scots. (Delete as Applicable).

  69. DerekM says:

    @ paul gerard mccormack

    It will be as soon as Mayhem stops jumping about talking trash at everybody and signs A50.

    Just saying be prepared for Nicola to out smart us all,there are a few angles to find out first for example what the EU want because it could even be in their power to negotiate our independence,it is their duty after all to look after their citizens.

    The problem is until mayhem signs a50 the EU will plan but say nothing official they cant or the screaming loony yoon tories would accuse them of interfering,i know right they have a cheek.

  70. dakk says:

    Nice Chris.

    Anything and everything the British state and its media acolytes say is not worth the paper it’s not written on.

  71. Ken500 says:

    SKy trying to flog health insurance. NHS doctor gets cut off.

    Get rid of SKy.

    Big protest march against NHS cuts in London.

    NI gets a bigger settlement and just gets ignored. There are constant Unionists attacks on Scotland. Westminster destroyed Oil sector jobs. High taxation when the price had fallen. Westminster is now destroying renewable jobs but spending £Billions on Nuclear in England. Westminster blocked EU renewable grants and investment for Scotland. Westminster is wasting £Billions on squit Trident. May should not be lecturing anyone. Cutting NHS and Education funding.

  72. louis.b.argyll says:

    All you folks that think out loud on twitter are fuds.

    Dividing, angry, pseudo-fake-neo-bedwetters.

    I fart in your general direction..it’s more effective than tweeting..

  73. Daisy Walker says:

    Great cartoon, as always. Re Fluffy… a song

    If you go down to the woods today
    Your in for a big surprise
    If you go down to the woods today
    You might not believe your eyes
    Cause all the farmers down by Dumfreiss
    Have changed their vote, they’re all of a piece,
    From No to Yes, in the New Indy Ref
    For Scotland

    If you go down to the woods today
    Beware of the Buffalo
    If you go down to the woods today
    Beware of the Buffalo
    Her name is Ruth, she doesn’t do Truth
    Her policies are made on the Hoof
    Like Stay, Get Out,
    Stay, Get Out of Europe

    If you down to the woods today
    You’d better not make a sound
    If you go down to the woods today..shhh
    We don’t want to scare the pound
    Cause Article 50’s not yet begun
    The fall in the Pound is likely to Run
    And all because of the Tory Brexit Picnic

    Repeat first verse…. enjoy

  74. heedtracker says:

    Synthetic Grievance, burnt into our souls. Which tory cooked up that, how many times has it been farted at us by all the usual tory BBC Scotland gimps out there, busy as they are, crawling along the floor of the Armadillo, with blury HD state of the art tv cameras, all frantically trying to make the tory conference audience look even remotely like what the SNP gets?

    Anyone can be a tory BBC propagandist.

  75. Nana says:

    @Socrates MacSporran

    Thanks for the headsup to Prof Robertson’s blog, here it is for anyone who missed it

    Good News: Theresa May is ready to risk losing Scotland
    http://archive.is/GCUAk

  76. Marcia says:

    Heedtracker

    ‘Synthetic Grievance’. A good phrase to depict the nonsense coming from Westminster. The political elite in London have been saying this for awhile. ‘Obsessed with Independence’ seems to have been the soundbite since the EU Referendum. The Unionists should be forced to listen to themselves since June 2016; it had been nothing but ‘obsessed with Independence’. At PMQ’s SNP Question to the PM has had an answer that has been obsessed with Independence even though the question had nothing to do with the Constitution. Airing ‘Synthetic Grievances’ didn’t do well for the Nazi Government in the end, I’m sure the mad History Prof will tell us. Right will prevail.

  77. heedtracker says:

    Marcia says:
    4 March, 2017 at 1:30 pm
    Heedtracker

    ‘Synthetic Grievance’. A good phrase to depict the nonsense coming from Westminster. The political elite in London have been saying this for awhile.

    I’d not heard it before yesterday, as the Fluffster went bettertogether nuts for me at lunch Friday, so much for political nerd me.

    It looks like its a bullet point, for when you go in front of the camera, like bettertogether, or some such UKOK catch phrases, when you’re trying desperately to not answer the question. Then I heard BBC gimps say its Ruth Davidson’s invention too.

    So its almost certainly not hers.

    If Ruth’s got her speech today, its going to be the core of her SNP bad stuff. But who really cares anymore. They’re essentially a pressure group for the very rich in Holyrood but they do have up their game when the bosses come to town. Which may explain why they look so amateurish, even with masses of BBC Scotland style gloss and they do get fantastic and relentless BBC boosterising.

    I have never ever heard any BBC Scotland thing that has ever been remotely critical of Ruth Davidson, ever, let alone the Scottish tories, quite the reverse in all kinds of ways. Last one was the way BBC Scotland gimps came out against some reforestation of Scotland plans. Mental as anything but such is great British tory propaganda in Scotland.

  78. Hamish100 says:

    I heard May saying in her day trip vee are… (sorry) Wir sind ein Volk……. was I dreaming? One people. You shall obey.

    Is this right wing extremism from the britnats? I think fluffy should tell us. He tells us everything else as the Governor General.

    Scotland is made up of many people or can May not count?

    Now with the NI vote May is in more trouble. The hard brexiters lost out.

  79. louis.b.argyll says:

    I love my country and it’s culture.

    I love my neighbours, seeing similarities and respecting our differences.

    I love my family, naturally.

    I don’t share my finances with my neighbours.

    I don’t expect my neighbours to protect my family before their own.

    I want independence for my family and my neighbours and my nation.

  80. Breeks says:

    Theresa May should be registering as a big player in this, on paper, but she is steadily building up quite a dossier of extremely dubious decisions; appointing Boris Johnston and the cabinet all stars, voting Remain but now cheerleading for Brexit, immigrant ads, deportations, publicly jilted and humiliated as an after dinner mint on the European menu, all comfy and cosy holding hands with sugar-daddy Uncle Donald before realising how toxic and racist his breath was, then month after month of keeping Mum about Brexit plans, I could go on, but let’s skip ahead to her latest Scottish adventure, the one where she didn’t wear tartan…

    Theresa May is a patsy; no leader of men or great thinker, and frankly, in way over her head. She’s the one dumb enough to carry the can. I believe Mrs May might be talking the talk of progress, but it’s hollow rhetoric; she’ll say or do anything which requires she does “something”, but she is playing her hand like a dead man walking; my personal interpretation of that is that she doesn’t expect to be the one still in office who has to deal with the consequences.

    So much for Theresa May, but reference John Major, Tony Blair, even Ken Clarke…. no not for their reputations or relevance, but that mainstream British pro-European remainer sentiment which currently has no mechanism or voice to reign in Theresa May and her UKIP inspired excesses. The ones who see the headlights of what’s coming as the other bunnies dance about…

    I wonder, I wonder, together with that curious article which claimed a third of Tories are non-plused about Scottish Independence, I wonder whether there are channels for constructive dialogue with that part of Britain which has better instincts than Theresa May about Scotland and Brexit, which can recognise that helping Scotland, rather than provoking decades of acrimonious instability, could perhaps be the key to a more liberal and forgiving Brexit deal for England. Brexit to the letter as defined, but with a sovereign Scottish government left inside Europe who can perhaps bring a doggy bag home from European conventions for those parties stood outside in the cold.

    It’s not John Major we want, certainly not Tony Blair, at the moment there’s a big dog that’s running around down South, lost and without a name, but desperate for an idea…

  81. HandandShrimp says:

    Is Mundell being a snowflake?

    🙂

  82. heedtracker says:

    Watching a huge non planet toryboy demo outside the Armadillo right now on Facebook, big WoS flags a plenty:D

    Something about sticking your union up something, currently being discussed, and tory scum too.

    Looking forward to watching BBC Scotland news camera gimps, sliding along the tarmac on their big wobbly bellies, trying to make the demo look almost as massive as they do to tory conference audiences.

  83. Proud Cybernat says:

    Shaking my head as I watching OO knuckle-grazers traipsing through a dull, damp Glasgow, flying the Saltire and The UJ. I wonder why they even bother–flying the Saltire that is. Last time I saw them in action concerning the Saltire was to terrorise and then rip it from a couple of wee lassies in George Square. Such is their love for the Saltire. BritNat roasters one and all.

  84. Dr Jim says:

    Independence means Independence and we’re going to make a success of it and get the best possible deal for Scotland

    I keep repeating their own argument to them and it makes them even more mentally irregular than they already are

  85. Thepnr says:

    Theresa May is a gift to those that support Independence. I can’t speak for the majority of Scots but the condescending manner in which she gave her speech yesterday turns my stomach.

    She doesn’t speak to the Scottish people she lectures at them like some modern day Miss Jean Brodie talking to the school children under her charge. The problem that she has is that at least half of her classroom are unruly children and just not listening anymore.

    Ruth Harrison too is a gift to those that support Independence.
    There are few politicians more aggressive than shouty Ruth is, she snarls and sneers at everything SNP and everything Independence.

    She BLASTED Boris Johnson for wanting to leave the EU live on TV then she BLASTS Nicola Sturgeon for wanting to stay. She is the worst of all hypocrites, the type that will look you in the eye and tell bare faced lies to your face if it will help her achieve own ambitions for her and her party.

    Shove May and Davidson out on their arse from Scotland, they’ve outstayed their welcome. I despise politicians like those two for all the right reasons and I only need one.

    They are Tories that rob the poor to give more to the rich and don’t give a monkeys of the consequences of their actions, be that hunger, homelessness or suicide. They are truly evil.

  86. davidb says:

    @ Mike Cassidy

    If Nicola pushes the button later this month the yoons/ MOT will make the council elections a proxy indyref. It is not.

    The elections are about the administration of local services. The removal in particular of Labour councils which are suspected of corruption by many people. The election of councils who by virtue of being of the same party as the government and the majority of our MP’s, will offer joined up action devoid of party point scoring.

    The recent failure of Ruthie’s eejits to get the best deal for her higher tax paying pals – the planned uprating by inflation of the 40% band – shows how her no surrender intransigence is counterproductive. There is no way Annabel Goldie would have been that stupid. Indeed how she wriggled out of that Pyrric shambols escapes me. Its lucky the MOT loves her.

  87. Grouse Beater says:

    Liz: “I also suggested that she brought Stirling Uni into disrepute.”

    I agree entirely, and that’s good of you to follow up your anger. Of course, as you’ve noted, they can’t identify an instance they can call abuse, other than categorising all challenges to her smears as ‘abuse’.

    I contemplated sending a copy of the essay to Stirling Uni but I remembered the BBC contacting Professor Robertson’s employers over his report on BBC bias. I’d happily send it to the student’s union and debate the issue, but I’ve a feeling she’s probably a leading light in it!

    It’s a classic tactic in the democratic process, isn’t it? Identify a controversial but irrelevant issue and exploit it to distract voters from the real issues.

  88. Hamish100 says:

    Local Elections- a leaflet from the septugenarian candidate has a whole section from a Ruth Davidson who apparantly is a MSP. I quote Ms Davidson “… the council elections… will be an important opportunity to tell the SNP – we voted No…..2

    Nope, nothing about a more recent referendum nicknamed “brexit” where over 60% of Scotland voted to remain in the EU.

    Maybe candidates should remind th constituents that the tory brexit fixation will cost jobs.

    With April fools day coming up can we tell the Mail or Express via our pal Rock we will allow 14 and overs to vote, other EU citizens and exclude under 65’s.
    Watch them froth.

  89. heedtracker says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    4 March, 2017 at 2:08 pm
    Is Mundell being a snowflake?

    Homophobe

    How so?

    You just are, everything and anything critical of future Lord Fluffie is homophobic.

  90. louis.b.argyll says:

    Ruth gives me the fucking boak..
    Hypocritical, aggressive, the perfect leader for the Tories.

  91. heedtracker says:

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/politics/news/83903/no-10-deeply-worried-police-investigations-2015-election-spending-report

    Pacific Quay defenders of the UK and tory grovellers never report this staggering fraud, either, possible fraud, there’s a chance that the tories legit, right?

  92. Nana says:

    Scottish Conservative Brexit fringe now discussing if the UK Government could repeal the Scotland Act and abolish Holyrood.

    https://twitter.com/Aidan___Kerr/status/838021817117904897

  93. Dr Jim says:

    See now there’s Ruth Harrison saying that a set of results in one election indicates something else in another

    Now if Scotlands First Minister were to imply anything like that Ruth Harrison would be declaring her well out of order and conflating issues

    But now that Ruth Harrison has gone public in saying the council elections are to send a clear message which will be interpreted in the way Miss Harrison says
    Does that mean if the council elections go completely the way of the SNP does that then mean it’s a clear indication that Scotland wants Independence or will it be reinterpreted to fit yet another Unionist agenda

    Every few years we have voting to select our chosen government but despite Ruth Harrisons party being rejected every single time, they keep demanding another go which is clearly against the will of the Scottish people

    When will Ruth Harrison and her party accept the result of those elections instead of year after year constant whingeing and grievance politics

    #accepttheresult

  94. Famous15 says:

    Tories eh?

    No policies except SNP baad and lies. She is obsessed with Nicola.

    She slipped in that the SNP tax business more highly than anywhere else. This a lie!

    The Tories are terrified to spell out their true policies because Scotland hates the Tories. Take education and health and compare it with what is happening in England.

  95. Tam the Bam. says:

    Tory conference

    Whoopy doo….its Braiden Davy!

  96. Breeks says:

    How do you get a job as a Tory Wrangler? Quite fancy giving it a go.

    If some old biddy wants to sit at the back, she gets lassoed, wrestled to the ground, held firm by several horsemen while she gets her horns cut off, and is then made to sit at the front again.

    Waste of Human Resources when you think of it. I’m sure one of those Tory Landowners could bring a couple of sheepdogs and a shepherd or two from the Estate to keep those wandering Unionists in the camera shot. Coom bye Shep! Haway lad! Whistle! Whistle! That and big stick, like what Theresa May was waving yesterday.

  97. Proud Cybernat says:

    And the band played on…

    http://imgur.com/a/Q9yyV

  98. manandboy says:

    THE TORIES BIG BREXIT LIE

    Through their Brexit spokesperson, Theresa May, the Tories are trying to paint themselves as ‘only trying to get the best deal for the UK’. Theresa uses this phrase repeatedly, and always when in front of TV cameras.
    THIS IS THE TORIES BIG LIE.
    Theresa works for the 1% – the super wealthy – and it is for THEM that she is trying to get the best deal.

    Let’s face it, has Theresa May ever used the phrase ‘trying to get the best deal’ – for ordinary people in the UK’?
    No, NEVER!
    Where is the ‘best deal’ for the disabled, the sick, the handicapped, the homeless, the unemployed, EU citizens in the UK? There is none for any of these groups of people, and there is none for the UK’ – except the 1%.

    Theresa May – a lying treacherous Tory. So what’s new?

  99. Gary45% says:

    Cracking Toon Chris.
    I don’t know what to say regarding “Mayday”.
    My political awareness goes back to “honest?” Ted Heath’s day, where my grannie would shout at the telly every time his “Honest?” face would come on.
    Then we had FU%KING THATCHER,( remember folks the 8th of April is the day to have a ceremonial jig) if anyone could divide, not just a country but a whole society in general it was “that.”

    May is being played like a one string banjo, she’s out of her depth and totally clueless along with the rest of her party.(wiff waff Johnson lurking in the shadows.)
    I heard the Fluffmeister on the wireless the other day, talking about new powers coming to Scotchland, obviously when pushed it was the sound of bolts being dropped into an empty whisky still “Claaanngggggg”, expect our “New Powers” to be nothing more than having control over the size of bolts holding our road signs, “if we are lucky”.
    Bitter together! Aye I will be if its “No” again.

  100. Robert Kerr says:

    @louis.b.argyll, 3.44

    Have you seen the photo of May and Ruth in the National WGD. page 18?

  101. Proud Cybernat says:

    “…as ‘only trying to get the best deal for the UK’. Theresa uses this phrase repeatedly…”

    And thinks it is in HER GIFT to deliver it.

    Hate to break to ya, Treeza-doll. Just like the pig-fancier before you, the EU 27 will decide what concessions they will give (or not) to the UK. NOT YOU!

    And we all know how swimmingly well it all went last time, don’t we…

  102. Gary45% says:

    Mentioned earlier about the Tories not being seen out side the Glasgow Conference Centre.
    There is a tunnel link from the Crown Plaza.

  103. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Have you seen the photo of May and Ruth in the National WGD. page 18?”

    May sizing up the tRuthless arse for a right good kicking, by the looks of things.

    Wouldn’t surprise me–they’re a treacherous lot. tRuthless just hasn’t realised yet how she’s being played by London.

  104. Clootie says:

    “Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t.”

    Pete Seeger

    Every previous member country of the British Empire has a shared experience.

  105. Capella says:

    Andy Murray retains his title “British” by winning the Dubai Open:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/39168363

    Meanwhile approx 250,000 march in London against the state of the NHS in England and Wales. The3resa May was just telling Nicola yesterday…
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39167350

  106. galamcennalath says:

    “David Mundell has made a plea to the Scottish Government to join “Team UK” to ensure the country gets the best deal from Brexit.”

    Perhaps if the Tories had joined “Team UK” instead of “Team Little England” they wouldn’t be in this mess.

    2014 Scots voted for the UK, with caveats provided by the Tories themselves. Within days the Tories then reneged. And it’s been steadily worse ever since,

    We are now on the verge of a three way constitutional negotiation and reconfiguration. Scotland/rUK/EU. That reality is going to be hard for the Tories to take but Mundell needs to appreciate his party has probably already destroyed the UK. All that’s now needed is for us to dot the ‘i’s and cross the ‘t’s.

  107. Meindevon says:

    @Heedtracker Thanks for that link to the police investigation the Tory election fraud. So can’t wait to see if our Devon and Cornwall Police Commisioner is on it. Please let it be!

    Bit annoyed to see the long list may get reduced down to one or two. Just enough to keep a Tory majority. Hmm, quelle surprise!

    As for the Tory conference saw several folk either asleep or nodding off. Must have been stirring stuff.

    Here’s that link again to let folk know how this government will win at any cost.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/politics/news/83903/no-10-deeply-worried-police-investigations-2015-election-spending-report

  108. Meg merrilees says:

    Capella @5.21

    The NHS demonstrators may be too late.

    Google Richard Branson and the NHS and you’ll be surprised how much of the English NHS he is now running as Virgin Care…

    Tip of the Iceberg?

  109. Nana says:

    @Meindevon

    There are a load of links you might have missed on the previous thread from 9am.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/tory-resurgence-continues/

  110. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    mike cassidy @ 09:50,

    Credit where credit’s due, John Harris has always “got it” right from the start. George Monbiot was another: “Scots voting no to independence would be an astonishing act of self-harm”.

    Not all English correspondents are ignorant and self-obsessed, thankfully, but they are a minority. Not least since few of the more enlightened ones get any employment. That’s where the censorship is really made to bite.

    As for the Graun, just a pity that in general it has not followed Harris’ good example, so instead it relies on the likes of that Labourite toady Sevvy. The paper seems to be suffering from “rabbit in headlights” syndrome like the rest of the left in England. And maybe just a little bit of jealousy that we have an exit strategy that unfortunately they don’t have.

  111. louis.b.argyll says:

    Robert Kerr..
    @louis.b.argyll, 3.44

    Have you seen the photo of May and Ruth in the National WGD. page 18?

    LOL..WHAT THE…?
    I work in stage-related industries..but have never seen an inverted drag act exiting stage left like that..
    ..while another act mimes pulling a rope out of someone’s backside..the rule is..never turn your back on the audience..but then, there wasn’t much of am audience anyway..

  112. Nana says:

    On the NHS England

    http://www.thecanary.co/2017/03/03/canary-wants-say-whats-happening-nhs-video/

    NHS standing on burning platform, inspectors warn
    http://archive.is/pAxzO

    Doctor reveals the horrific reality of working in the NHS with a frontline like a war zone
    http://archive.is/0PSyP

  113. Cymru Rydd says:

    May’s speech really was a PR disaster. There was not even an attempt to reach out to a wider Scottish audience or address any Scottish sensibilities on the all important European issue. At the very least, she could have acknowledged some differences of opinion on the matter and that she was currently engaged in a dialogue with the Scottish Government concerning this. Her hectoring delivery just sounds so weird and false to a modern audience much more attuned to communication between equals. I abhor Tony Blair with a passion, but i’ll say one thing about him, he would have presented the UK’s case in a much more human and persuasive manner than Maggie May.

    I also think May is way out of her depth after landing the PM role without any sort of mandate. Both Gove and Johnson were smart enough to know that being Brexit PM was a complete poisoned chalice( and probably conspired with each other to foul up their respective campaigns), hoping to pick up the pieces after May burns and crashes, as she surely will.

    It appears to me that May will now find herself fighting on three fronts simultaneously. A reinvigorated Sinn Fein in Northern Ireland raising the possibility of a sooner than expected border poll on reunification, a renewed independence drive in Scotland, and an intransigent Brussels. As a Welsh nationalist, I would obviously like to see Wales joining this Anti-May front at this particular juncture, but here’s hoping that we can join up as events unfold!

    I believe that a number of historical factors are now converging to challenge and eventually destroy Greater England’s age old pretensions.They say that History is a cruel judge, and their fall from grace will be a spectacular one indeed.

  114. Capella says:

    @ Meg merrilees – you’re right. NHS staff must be seething at the public money being funneled to Richard Branson to provide health care. What a cheek Theresa May has to lecture Nicola on getting on with the day job.

    I noted Jeremy Corbyn was addressing the protesting thousands only a week after alleging that our Health Service was failing!

    Watched a BBC clip of Ruth Davidson frowning heavily over the lack of educational opportunities in Scotland now, under the SNP watch. Very close cropped views of the audience so no idea of how many people were there. They did manage to get a few extremely bored looking young people in shot.

    Hope Nicola will send them copies of “Our Record” as they are incredibly ill-informed.
    https://www.snp.org/record

  115. Thepnr says:

    @Capella

    Being ill-informed is the natural state of affairs in this disunited country for the vast majority. The people visiting Wings are no longer ill-informed and slowly we and other Independence supporting websites are getting the message out.

    I don’t read all of Nana’s links everyday but I read most of them, I hope the majority here do as knowledge is the only weapon that will help us win our Independence by reducing ignorance.

  116. Capella says:

    @ Thepnr – I certainly do read most of Nana’s links as they are such a valuable resource. If we did have a Scottish Six I would put Nana in charge of it, along with Derek Bateman of course.

    That’s why we will never see a Scottish Six – it could be too relevant.

    When I look at the BBC website for information I invariably come away disappointed. Most of the articles are for people who read “magazines” – and I don’t mean iScot! The rest are irrelevant or just propaganda.

    WoS is where I get my information – though it sometimes takes all day!

  117. yesindyref2 says:

    That was very good from Andrew Neil on Daily Politics, credit where it’s due. He even contradicted effectively his two incredibly biased guests.

    He must read Wings.

  118. Gary45% says:

    Can’t remember if I put this on wings a few weeks back.
    I had to go and look at a job at a customers house.
    I got the usual “would you like a cup of tea?” so as usual I said yes.
    The customer then started to talk politics, ( they happened to notice certain livery on my van) so I duly got involved in conversation.
    (I left them a wee Black Book for reference.)
    The point of this post is, if Fluffy Mundle or is it Mundel? is offended, the conversation I had with the customer was a million times worse.
    SHE was a homophobic, racist and totally bigoted in her views 83 year old TORY.
    I have not made up my mind whether to take the job on, I probably wont.
    Message to the YOONS, yes YOONS,.. GROW UP you are clutching at the last embers of a broken union.

  119. Nana says:

    Robert J Somynne talks about the tory conference

    Click here for the video
    https://twitter.com/RobertJSomynne/status/838071226740293632

  120. heedtracker says:

    He must read Wings.

    Jacky Bird maybe does too. Just watched her last interview with Mayhem and demand she block any and all referendums in Scotland and if not, why NOT. Spectacular stuff, must watch. They really do believerise they own Scotland, our Pacific Quay chums. Well they do, to be fair.

  121. Nana says:

    @Thepnr & Capella

    Links are a bit like woolies pick ‘n’ mix [those were the days] choose what you want to read if you have the time.

    Capella you gave me a chuckle at 7.25pm. All I can say is poor Derek!

  122. heedtracker says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39141071

    Here she is. 01.30. “You have the power to grant that or not…” Jacky’s got very bleary red eyes too, don’t cry for me Pacific Quay, its all Alex Salmond’s faaaaaaault.

    Must be annoying, to say the least, to have to even wonder where those high pay cushy BBC jobs for life came under such real threat.

  123. Smallaxe says:

    Thepnr:

    From now on YOU! will read ALL! of Nana’s links or we send the boys round, we may be a Small Axe but we are many!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRV9fl-xj10
    🙂

    Peace Always

  124. yesindyref2 says:

    @Heed
    Been too busy to see Bird for days, lucky me!

    As for Andrew Neil, won’t be long before we see him in the studio with some extreme stuff going on from the Tories and Tory lovers, whipping out his SNP membership card, screaming “I’m a Scot get me outta here”, and running out of his studio for Kings Cross, never to be seen by the BBC again.

  125. Croompenstein says:

    FFS enough.. had enough of this pish..

    https://twitter.com/DavidPBMaddox/status/838112368538308609

  126. Nana says:

    @Croompenstein

    You would think these ‘reporters’ would have something better to do like perhaps tell the population who the paedophiles in Westminster are, because they do know.

    and so many other dirty little secrets

    https://twitter.com/RealNatalieRowe/status/837724316301131776

  127. Hermodr says:

    Hi friends, hope you’re all doing well this evening. 🙂

    I have a casual request which maybe people here can help with. As a fairly new convert to the Yes movement, my memory doesn’t really go back this far (or rather, I wasn’t really paying attention when I was younger).

    I’ve spoken before about my parents on here; dictionary-definition Proud-Scots-But…, No voters but also disappointed with the EU referendum result. They seem, at the moment, Labour-till-they-die as well. This evening, while I was clearing dishes, I overheard Dad droning on about how everything was better under Labour and Tony Blair, and how SNP don’t… something or other, anyway, they’re bad, you all know the score.

    The topic was poverty. Apparently, things were better under Labour, and now they’re getting worse. He had seen ‘statistics’ on this – most likely in the Times or on BBC.

    Now, I had absolutely no desire for a political discussion tonight, so I didn’t jump in. However, might anyone have any idea what statistics he is talking about? Is this a generally held view, that things in Scotland were better under Labour – with specific regards to poverty?

    I don’t know this stuff. I was not paying attention to politics until 2014. My initial reaction is simply: well, look at the f****** polls to see what Scotland thinks of Labour’s record! But can anyone give any thoughts or recollections about why Scotland switched from Labour to SNP? I would love to hear from you. And I know that you’ve all probably been over this stuff a million times, but trust me: there are new people every day who want to hear it.

    It is my personal mission to convert these parents of mine. 🙂

  128. Nana says:

    From conservative home, feel dirty now I’ve been there

    Why May will give battle to Sturgeon… after Brexit
    http://archive.is/uKdND

  129. Croompenstein says:

    @Nana –

    It works at you and gets you down this one here is a prize yoon loon but to save our sanity Afua tells the truth…

    https://twitter.com/thecarolemalone/status/837608251181133824

  130. Bean an Tighe says:

    Here’s that terribly nice chap Clegg urging us to support the Libdems, the ‘only voice’ in ‘the country’ in standing up against hard Brexit. We’re still in the Union aren’t we, or did I miss something. Guess our 56 MP’s don’t count.

    https://www.facebook.com/libdems/videos/10155099545268270/?autoplay_reason=all_page_organic_allowed&

  131. heedtracker says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    4 March, 2017 at 7:45 pm
    @Heed
    Been too busy to see Bird for days, lucky me!

    Never watch their grot at all now, me. BBC is so boring these days. Its only for yoon culture in Scotland. But,

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39154212

    How come beeb gimps up here dont know how many SLab members there are but England beeb knows Lab lost 26k lately?

  132. Nana says:

    @Croompenstein

    Warning this may raise your BP, the know all Carole Malone

    https://twitter.com/ThePledge/status/837397555352776705

  133. Nana says:

    Oops cross over Croomps, ignore the last one from me.
    She is a prize loon that Malone woman

  134. Rock says:

    Hamish100,

    “With April fools day coming up can we tell the Mail or Express via our pal Rock we will allow 14 and overs to vote, other EU citizens and exclude under 65’s.”

    Hamish100,

    “I have asked you before if you prefer the Mail, Express etc. Never got a response.”

    Rock,

    “Stop being like Nick Robinson of the BBC.

    I had given you a response (The centrifuge):

    Hamish100,

    “I asked you before — do you by the Mail, Express, Record?”

    Rock,

    “No, none.”

  135. DerekM says:

    @ Cymru Rydd

    Aye the tombstone has one thing she will never have he is a better liar.

    I remember it well things can only get better as New Labour polled across the little England tory divide,and how at that moment it seemed like i was the only person screaming he is a lunatic this is going to end bad.

    And do not worry Cymru Rydd by the time we are finished with westminster and wrecked both the Labour and Conservative party,it will give you vile Welsh separatists a larger political clout 😉

    I suggest you go after the Labour socialist and left,forget the tories you have to destroy their puppets first or they just distract the debate.

    Once you get the tories exposed without their pretend socialist opposition it becomes quite clear who pulls Labour`s strings.

  136. Terry says:

    Mundell on the daily politics going mad. But did you notice the large billboards behind him saying “Brexit – how do we do it?”

    F*ck knows – seems to be the Tory answer. Anyway don’t ask Scotland. We don’t want to do it. Sort out your own mess, little Britain.

  137. Croompenstein says:

    @Nana

    Hopefully their ignorance will work against them but not one word about Rosa not running for election can you imagine if it was a yoon who decided not to run due to abuse!!

    It wid rip yer knittin!!!

  138. Thepnr says:

    @Smallaxe

    “A-Oi” I got the message, will now read all of Nana’s links 🙂

  139. heedtracker says:

    Bean an Tighe says:
    4 March, 2017 at 8:13 pm
    Here’s that terribly nice chap Clegg urging us to support the Libdems,

    Its a sharp move FibDem wise, feeding off Leave vote Brexit worry and fear. Why Labour chose to go the other way and with the Brexit farce is another possible killing blow to Corbyn and Lab. So many wrong moves going on in that outfit these days.

    Meanwhile in Wales,

    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/billboards-attacking-brexit-popped-up-12691852

    More crowd funding. Its catching on!

  140. Thepnr says:

    @Hermodr

    To try and help your case here is a link to a comparison between Scotland and the UK for both adults and children considered to be living in poverty.

    Unfortunately it only goes back as far as 2007 but the graphs clearly show that between then and now Scotland has done better than the UK at mitigating poverty.

    The real issue though is that the SNP have never been in power in the UK and are very limited in what they can do in terms of the budget both Tory and labour governments have handed them.

    Keep trying to persuade your parents, they’ll get there too if given enough information. You need to wean them off state propaganda, I’d suggest you should try and get them to sit down with you one night to watch London Calling about the BBC.

    If they can stand watching it through to the end then it will have served it’s purpose. It’s online and available in DVD for £2 for 1 of a £5 for five inc. of postage. Buy five they won’t be wasted. Further link after the first. Good luck and never give up 🙂

    http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Social-Welfare/IncomePoverty/scotukpoverty

    http://www.ayemail.scot/store/?group_id=17

  141. DerekM says:

    @ Croompenstein

    Aye i was sad to hear that as well.

    Its a dirty,sleazy and despicable world UK politics always down raking about in the sewer are the yoons.

    I hope Rosa finds a bit comfort in the fact we think she did a great job,and from us surly bunch of Scots that his high praise indeed,and i wish her all the best.

    See this is another reason we need to get independence Scotland,so faithful public servants like Rosa can do the job they want to do and that we asked them to do.

  142. cearc says:

    Hermodr,

    The key thing is that it is the London tory government that controls all the economic levers.

    They decide how much money we get (less each year), they decide on tax (the partial powers that have only come this year are of very little help) and benefits.

    This is what has increased poverty. The Scottish government can only seek to alleviate the worst of this from their limited budget. They have now prevented the widespread misery and poverty caused by the bedroom tax in the rUK.

    They have maintained and increased health spending, we do not have “4 out of 5 hospitals unsafe” by spending more per person on healthcare than down south despite the fact that the money given to us is based on the same per capita funding.

    They supply free care services to all who need it which is almost unavailable down south.

    The real point is that as long as Westminster holds the purse strings it is a matter of whether Labour or Tory are best at Westminster because they run the economy and set the main budgets.

    When it comes directly to matters of the Scottish Parliament. Well, Labour at Holyrood sent money back to Westminster as they had nothing to spend it on, whilst running up massive PFI debts on building hospitals and schools (of the collapsing variety), they built no Forth bridge despite it having been recommended decades earlier, they made no attempt to dual the A9, nope there was nothing they could think of spending it on.

    So yes, they are probably right and wrong! I guess you have a big job on but probably the starting point is who has what powers.

    The best shortcut is to find something that they have an interest in and show that they have been lied to.

    Keep asking for specific info I’m sure someone will provide it with links.

    This is what everybody needs to do, not discuss which ‘groups’ need targeting but to work slowly on someone that we know.

  143. heedtracker says:

    This is worth a watch too. Compare and contrast the full on “Stop them now Prime Minister” fury, this week, from Jacky Bird and her beeb Scotland chums. Dont think Jacky broached this subject with Mayhem at all, but that’s not what Pacific Quay is for.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/the-last-leg-diability-cuts_uk_58ba72f0e4b05cf0f400d555?ir=UK+Politics&utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

  144. Clydebuilt says:

    Cooncil Elections Voting Strategy

    Rev. What is the voting strategy to maximise the number of SNP councillors…..
    Should we give rankings to SNP candidates only?

  145. Robert Kerr says:

    Hot off the presses.

    Peugeot to buy Opel and Vauxhaul from GM. Announcement Monday.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/manufacturing/peugeot-deal-to-buy-gm-s-opel-1.2998284

    A Vauxhall deal like Nissan on the cards? Bet the French leak to the press.

    More popcorn. Running low.

  146. Joe Catalan Eglinton says:

    Greetings and Salutations….There is one definate advantage advantage to retirement….you can if you so wish watch 3 National news programmes a day. Now here is a worrying point:
    At 1300 the BBC news gave TM 3rd spot billing in it’s news schedule..(majority of Englandshire being at work still…Fast forward to the 6pm BBC news (majority barring rail problems of Englandshire back home) By a miracle of modern science and electronics….the TM belittling the SNP has suddenly moved to Numero Uno spot. Closely hugged by the Tory Leader in Scotland she proceeded to attempt to belittle and demean the SNP. In contrast the ITV news had the same event almost next to last on it’s schedule…It sticks in the throat that I/we have to pay a Fee for the honour of watching this unashamedly bias TV channel…I for one will be switching to Jackanory News from now on..

  147. galamcennalath says:

    The big question … has the Tory conference shifted YES support above 50%?

    It should have!

  148. Imagine living in a country where you produce 96% of all its oil resources and 60% of the total gas supply, and export over 30% of generated electricity for the privelige of which we are charged. Even though English lights would go out without this surplus, we are still charged for the honour of giving it to them.

    Who else would accept this?

  149. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @cearc –

    I haven’t been around much, but it’s great to see you commenting positive stuff, as aye.

    Hope you are well.

    🙂

  150. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Politics is not a game.” – Theresa May

    I think this is probably the one and only statement ever made by Mayhem that I can acually agree with. Politics absolutely is NOT a game. At least, it SHOULDN’T be. Because ultimately politics is about peoples’ lives. Politics affects us all in one way or another.

    But Mayhem, in making her little soundbite in an attempt to besmirch the SNP Government, reveals her total lack of understanding of what politics is really about. Mayhem simply does not ‘get it’ because she is probably too used to getting her very own way in Westminster.

    Because politics, as most of us here on WoS would likely agree, is about something Mayhem will never grasp–it is about COMPROMISE.

    As the chaotic aftermath of the BREXIT result in June of last year became clear, the Scottish government has spent a lot of time and energy trying to find a middle ground solution that would satisfy most Scottish voters–those who voted by 55% to 45% to stay part of the UK and also those who voted by 62% to 28% to remain part of the EU. Not an easy task by any means.

    After months of intense consultation, in December 2016, the Scottish government submitted its compromise ‘Two Union’ proposal to the Westminster government–a proposal that would keep Scotland in the EU and ALSO in the UK. A very detailed COMPROMISE proposal.

    For all its rhetoric about ‘listening’ to the devolved adminsitrations views on Brexit, Mayhem’s government simply cocked a two-fingered salute to the SG compromise proposal. There would be NO compromise as far as Westminster was concerned. Brexit will be a hard-Brexit– end of. No compromise. Nothing.

    So we must ask ourselves. Who is it here that is playing political games? Who is it here that is trying to satisfy the political desires of most of the population of Scotland and who is it that is trying to keep that population divided?

    Mrs May–YOU are the ne here playing political games and, it has to be said, a very dangerous game at that. And you know what?

    You are one seriously lousy player. Just don’t say we didn’t tell you.

  151. DerekM says:

    lol they all read wings some even try and comment but fail to see the great big neon sign beware alert readers 🙂

    @ Hermodr

    Welcome to the enlightenment Hermodr 🙂

    Best thing to do with old stuffy Labour because my dad was guys is to keep laughing at the news,when big burd comes on say something like oh here comes the Alan Roden ex daily mail tory hack straight off the press Scottish labour press release on behalf of the conservative party,pick the paper he reads up ,dont get angry just laugh at it and say something like i would get better reporting in the sunday sport,these journalist cant write for toffee how do they stay in business.

    The important thing is to make the link between the tories and the Labour party.

    But he is correct under tombstone there was an economic boom,nothing to do with him of course and everything to do with German unification,the Russians and Chinese entering into the markets and the growth of the EU members and currency.

    If anything Blair and Brown tried their best to wreck all of it by spending and borrowing above our means and then trying to create ponzy schemes one after the other which led to deregulation and casino banking.

    And we all know how that turned out.

  152. cearc says:

    Ian B,

    Hi there, hope you’re not studying too hard (still waiting for the next novel!).

    I’ve just been lurking a lot lately. Partly hand problems, partly or mainly laziness.

  153. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @cearc –

    😉

    Ye canny rush these things!

    Hope to see you soon, somewhere!

  154. Meindevon says:

    @ Nana.
    Thanks for directing me to those links. Ashamed to say I missed them this morning, very unusual for me. (Had an early appt with some workmen at the house).

    Anyway, glad you did that as I’ve just sent the one about the EU restricting US travel visas to friends in the USA that were planning a visit soon. Also sent the one about the falling pound to other half working out there at the moment.

    You’re a star! *

  155. Still Positive says:

    Just read on the BBC website – news – apparently tRuthless told the conference today that the SNP should stop putting Scotland down!

    Aye, alternative facts right enough.

    She is the one doing that at every FMQs trying to put out her agenda which Scotland has consistently rejected.

  156. Hermodr says:

    Thank you everyone for the posts. 🙂

    It’s weird: I basically discuss and debate things for a living, and have always been hugely interested in global politics, but I always find myself quite slow to react when discussing the state of things in Scotland. Like, for example: I know that the Scottish government gets a block grant from Westminster, so for me it’s very obvious how limited the SG is. However, and I’ve had this before, anytime you try to argue this, the BritNat will just say “Yeah, yeah, blame Westminster, nothing’s the SNP’s fault blah blah blah” – it’s like, well, I don’t blame Westminster for absolutely everything, but in this case? Come on! There’s a very obvious connection there.

    A lot of people will just not see it.

    And also, I find it amazing anyway when people try to blame the SNP for things like poverty. You can absolutely criticise their policies, but poverty is brought about through generations, not a few years.

    Anyway, I wouldn’t rule out Labour totally imploding before the next referendum, so maybe that’ll do my job for me. Wonder if any of the MSPs will switch over.

  157. Robert Peffers says:

    @Swiss Perspective says: 4 March, 2017 at 7:10 am:

    ” … From this side of the Channel it looks more ridiculous by the day.”

    Aye!
    Richt!

    But you should try not only looking at it from the other side of the channel from where you are but also from the Scottish side of the Scottish/English Border.

  158. cearc says:

    Meindevon,

    I hope the other half’s being paid in dollars!
    Mind, they’ve been a bit bouncy recently as well.

  159. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Hermodr 20:08:

    But can anyone give any thoughts or recollections about why Scotland switched from Labour to SNP? I would love to hear from you.

    A noble cause, dear Winger. Especially to save your folks from the Grimpen Mire of ignorance.

    Some suggestions:

    + Show them what Gordon Brown said during indyref1 about having the most wonderful superfederated federal Scotland there has ever been on the planet and what they are promising now. If what he said was true then, how come they are promising it all over again now? Just one example of all the lies, the lies! We’re sick of their lies. We can’t trust them over anything.

    + The association with the Tories. How can anyone who was a decent Labour supporter ever understand how they worked so happily hand-in-glove with their supposed opponents?

    + Play them Phantom Power’s “No to yes” video #4. (It’s on YouTube.) A great exemplar from a strong former Labour BT activist.

  160. Thepnr says:

    @Hermodr

    But can anyone give any thoughts or recollections about why Scotland switched from Labour to SNP?

    I guess I didn’t read your post correctly first time around and posted statistics you probably weren’t looking for but I can answer your question specifically for my case only and I suspect many others too.

    Labour were the supposed party of the working man/woman and the disadvantaged yet…

    Labour introduced the Bedroom Tax

    Labour introduced Work Capability Assessment (Think ATOS)

    Labour introduced Tuition fees for higher education

    Labour replaced maintenance grants with repayable student loans

    Labour became unelectable as their policies clearly worked against the working man and the disadvantaged, not for them.

    So a simple choice to switch to the SNP for many including myself.

  161. Robert Peffers says:

    @One_Scot says: 4 March, 2017 at 9:17 am:

    ” … The UK not paying their £50 Billion Brexit debt being put out as a good thing for the UK.
    But during Scotland’s Independence referendum, the unionist media and the UK government made big capital out of the fact that if Scotland did not honour its debt, it would be seen as a some sort of Banana republic country by the rest of the world.”

    As I recall it, One Scot, it actually went along the lines of -“If Scotland was to refuse to pay its share of the United Kingdom’s debts then no one would be prepared to lend them anything unless their interest rates were very, very high as the lenders would see it as Scotland not being trustworthy to repay it”

  162. DerekM says:

    I can Hermodr it started way back during the internal Labour party debate over the Scottish parliament,we worked close with the SNP in getting it back only for the PLP to deny us any power,steal Scottish territorial waters in the North Sea and rig the parliament electoral system to make it near impossible to remove a useless politician Murdo Fraser is a prime example,Anas Sarwar another we just sacked his butt in 2015 and get the idiot back in 2016.

    Enough was enough lol we even gave the SNP a surprise in 2015 their faces were priceless when the old swingometer was going haywire and the party membership was exploding 🙂

  163. Meg merrilees says:

    Still positive @10.34 – but we couldn’t call her (t)Ruthless if she was honest, could we?

  164. Still Positive says:

    No Meg merrilees, we couldnae @ 11.16.

  165. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    DerekM @ 23:13:

    …and rig the parliament electoral system to make it near impossible to remove a useless politician [-] Murdo Fraser is a prime example, Anas Sarwar another

    You don’t seem to have a very strong grip on electoral realities. This comment reminds me rather of Brecht’s ironic joke from the GDR, about it being better for the government to elect a new people, rather than the other way round.

    Any decent electoral system is going to elect dorks you (or I) don’t like. Because it’s decent, and because a bunch of other people with the same rights as you like them enough. Simples. It’s called democracy. Get used to it. (Or move to North Korea.)

    If you’re trying to give the impression that yessers are intolerant anti-democratic one-party-staters, you’re doing just great.

  166. Thepnr says:

    I’ve came to realise that just as we seem to agree that we should be nice to the No voters who disagreed with us first time around then it is just as important that we be nice to each other.

    Be nice eh!

  167. DerekM says:

    No you get me totally wrong Robert i was referring to the Scottish parliament being a joke electoral system which it is and is an easy place for a careerist politician to get lazy since they do not need the vote to get a seat.

    That i am totally against and always will be no matter which party you support.

    Willie Rennie shall i continue ?

  168. Robert Peffers says:

    Calum McKay says: 4 March, 2017 at 10:00 am:

    british United Kingdom colonialism alive and kicking in 2017!

    The recent reporting of Scottish nationalism as being bad (why? Is never explained) in the british United Kingdom press whilst ignoring that british United Kingdom nationalism even exists, is worth raising to the Scottish public’s attention.
    Imposing your culture upon others, rubbishing others cultures whilst dividing and ruling had been the british United Kingdom way to obtain an empire, and still is in Scotland 2017!
    Those british United Kingdom that do all they can, fair or foul to keep us in this union don’t appear to like our people or culture or frankly anything about Scotland, but for some grand scheme we must submit to their beliefs and will!
    The british United Kingdom are a strange people, its time the mirror was shone on their actions and importantly their nationalism, fortunately brexit appears to be doing that for us

    british United Kingdom colonialism alive and kicking in 2017!
    The recent reporting of Scottish nationalism as being bad (why? Is never explained) in the british United Kingdom press whilst ignoring that british United Kingdom nationalism even exists, is worth raising to the Scottish public’s attention.
    Imposing your culture upon others, rubbishing others cultures whilst dividing and ruling had been the british United Kingdom way to obtain an empire, and still is in Scotland 2017!
    Those british United Kingdom that do all they can, fair or foul to keep us in this union don’t appear to like our people or culture or frankly anything about Scotland, but for some grand scheme we must submit to their beliefs and will!
    The british United Kingdom are a strange people, its time the mirror was shone on their actions and importantly their nationalism, fortunately brexit appears to be doing that for us.

    Do you think it might be a good idea, Calum, to not be doing the United Kingdom’s, (a.k.a. England’s), propaganda for them?

    They have spent well over 300 years brain washing the World at large, and Scotland, Ireland and Wales in particular that they, and only they, are the British.

    They are not – they are just the United Kingdom part of Britain and there are another three independent states in Britain that are not ruled by Westminster and England. These are the Republic of Ireland, the Bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey and the isle of Man. With a good deal more hard work the country and Kingdom of Scotland will soon be joining the rest of Britain that is outside of the three country Kingdom of England. No arse of a United Kingdom unionist is getting away with taking my right to be every bit as British as the rest of Britain that is NOT part of three country Kingdom of England.

    Think of it this way, Calum, think how humiliating for them it will be to have to stop claiming they are the only British?

    May can no longer claim to be the British Prime Minister. Westminster will have to stop claiming to be the British Parliament and it won’t be the British Army Navy and Air Force that goes killing as many brown coloured people all over the World.

    There has never been an entire country called Britain and such as the British Broadcasting Corporation has never been the broadcaster of all of Britain.

    The claims of, “Great Britain”, were always bullshit for the term Great Britain is the geographic name of only the biggest island in the British Archipelago. It will be a great humiliation for them to be reduced to just being England.

  169. Robert Peffers says:

    @cearc says: 4 March, 2017 at 10:48 am:

    ” … Our assets are largely immovable. ie. Oil, gas, electricity (and renewable potential), fishing, whisky, salmon etc.”

    The fact is, cearc, that it is not that very long ago when Edinburgh, and to a slightly less extent, Glasgow had a fairly large financial sector.

    It migrated to the London Square Mile. It would not be so very difficult to fetch it back again and, in any case it is often just a case of moving a brass plate held by only four screws and some Rawl Plugs.

  170. Still Positive says:

    Well said Robert Peffers @ 12.10.

  171. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    DerekM @ 23:25:

    the Scottish parliament being a joke electoral system

    But with respect it’s not, Derek. It’s not the system I would choose, but you can’t dismiss it so lightly, with your only apparent justification being that it elects people you don’t like. Any half-decent proportional system will do the same.

    Just remember, there was a long time back in the day when that same system kept an awful lot of people in parliament who happened to be anything but Labour. (Mostly SNP, in fact, with a few stragglers besides such as Rosie Kane.) Some “fix” that.

    Your whole tone seems to suggest that these other folk have no right to be there at all. Just because you don’t like them? Now how can that be reasonable?

    The real answer is to persuade more and more people that what we’re saying is correct, and get them to vote the deadwood out. And likewise when the newindyref comes along, to vote the UK out as well. There’s no short cuts to this.

    Attempting to scapegoat the system is just a waste of time. It gets nowhere. Even worse, it makes us look like losers fishing for excuses.

  172. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    DerekM @ 23:57,

    Oh, and I should add, FTFP (as for WM) is well-known as the absolute worst system of all for creating careerist politicians. There’s typically only about 25-odd UK constituencies these days, the so-called marginals, where there’s any real possibility of unseating an MP.

    (Which incidentally the Tories targeted ruthlessly with oodles of dosh – possibly illegally – to get the grossly unrepresentative result they did at the last UKGE.)

    Barring major upset, the rest of the lot are virtually guaranteed jobs for life. As with all those Labour “low-flying Jimmies” we had to suffer for decade after decade until recently.

  173. DerekM says:

    Eh no Robert it elects people who do not win.

    Look a one party state is when the tanks roll in,parliament and politicians are locked up or worse,martial law is enforced.

    If four political parties go into an election and three of them are thought to be so bad that very few people vote for them and the rest all vote for the same party,that is not a one party state that is just your political parties suck.

  174. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Oops, FPTP (First Past The Post), not wot I last wrote. Sorry. Getting late, surely…

  175. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    DerekM @ 00:47:

    it elects people who do not win.

    Duh. They got lots of votes from real people, dammit.

    OK, let’s get back to basics. Just what do you mean by “winning”?

    It sounds to me like it always boils down in the end to electing people you like, and no-one else. Which is a one-party state. The 98% votes of the typical authoritarian system. Is that what you mean? If not, exactly who else should there be, then?

    And how? What kind of electoral process do you actually propose instead, pray? Do you have any notion, besides just wildly lashing out at everything?

  176. crazycat says:

    @ Robert J Sutherland

    If I’m allowed to intrude in your discussion (too bad if I’m not, since I just have 🙂 ) what may be being referred to here is the difference between closed and open lists.

    In the former, it is the party which determines that Adam Tomkins will get a seat, for instance, constrained only by the need to get a fairly small minimum of voters who do not hate him so much that they can’t bring themselves to vote Tory if he’s number one on the list.

    In the latter, Tory voters could express a preference for candidate as well as party – much better in my opinion.

    (In a couple of the early Holyrood elections I voted Green on the list; more recently I haven’t, at least in part because of the identity of their top candidate. If I lived in Lothian, I would have really struggled to vote for Alison Johnstone on the off-chance of also getting Andy Wightman, for instance.)

  177. yesindyref2 says:

    A cracking contradiction here for polling question formats.

    How we phrase a question has a huge effect on the results – my favourite example, from @Gerald_Ashley

    https://twitter.com/rshotton/status/837629430579216384

  178. cearc says:

    Hermodr,

    Of course if your starting point is undermining their trust in Labour, look from stuff from former labourites (there are plenty of them).

    Eric Joyce who blogs at http://www.ericjoyce.co.uk/
    Mike Dailly from no to yes – youtube.com/watch?v=yb5Wxw-5Txw

    Readily spring to mind (from my waiting-for-painkillers-to-kick-in fuddled mind).

    Also keep an eye on their voting (and abstaining) at Westminster (and sparse attendance) and FMQs at Holyrood and point out the salient points to them that tend to be unreported.

    Highlight all the corruption and behavioral problems that only get scant publicity.

  179. cearc says:

    yesindyref2,

    Yes, that is a stunning example because the difference is so large.

    For those that can’t be bothered to click on links,

    2 questions from the same IPSOS MORi poll.

    On Reducing the voting age from 18 to 16
    Support: 37%
    Oppose: 56%

    On giving 16-17 yr. olds the right to vote
    Support: 52%
    Oppose: 41%

    None so queer as folk!

  180. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    crazycat @ 01:36,

    Of course you’re welcome to join in! We may all learn something from an open discussion.

    I agree, actually. I don’t like closed lists either. They enable party hacks to flourish. The example I used a few threads back was Mike Rumbles ousting the excellent Alison McInnes, who seemed to do more than the rest of the LibDems combined – for all the good that did her in the end.

  181. Fred says:

    High-spirited crew in the Clutha last night just back from a very successful day at the Tory conference, they were of course demonstrators!

  182. Nana says:

    Dateline on Northern Ireland, Scotland – and #indyref2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9SKbIc8Wf0

    http://britainstays.co.uk/uk-not-use-powers-eu-migrant-workers-letter-theresa-may/

    Tight deadline for talks after nationalist surge in Northern Ireland
    http://archive.is/Ealot

    Daily mail faces fresh blagging scandal
    https://www.byline.com/column/3/article/1513

  183. Ken500 says:

    Labour raised £600Billiin in taxes and borrowed £120Billion. £720Billion. Labour/Tories spent £Trns on illegal wars.

    There was more to spend relieving poverty. Education NHS etc. They also increased the debt with the Banking crash and the illegal wars. Gordon Brown allowed the Banking debt to get out of control. There were World Banking Laws in place. The works banks had to keep 25% in reserves. From Thatcher/Reagan onwards. that was reduce to 13%. The UK/US Banking system support workd Banking. I.e.the systems are backed by guaranteed government funding.

    Gordon Brown changed the Banking rules. There were Banking standards in place. Bankers took exams and came up through the ranks. If they failed the exams they were side stepped. Did not get promotion. The ones at the top had the qualification and experience. Gordon Brown allowed changes to financial qualifications/advisors. Advisors took exams on how to giving advice. Not being qualified to give the best advice, i.e. Explain products not explain their suitability for the customer.

    Fred Goodwin introduced performance related pay. Products were sold on commission. All staff had a target. Goodwin took out the management level to ‘save’ money. Gave the Managers offers they couldn’t refuse. Anyone over 45 got a lump sum and a pension to ‘retire’. They continued to sell freelance – on commission. It was to cut costs and so the ones at the top could get more bonuses etc. 20 year old graduates were taken on to sell on Commission with less qualifucation and experience. Lending money and mortgages too many people couldn’t pay back, with less collateral. This led to housing/commercial fraud. Pyramid Banking schemes. The Banks cheated money and businesses from people and sold them for less.

    The UK raises now raises £515Billion in taxes. Borrows £100Billion which is spent in the rest of the UK.

    Scotland raises £54Billion (without Oil) Scotland raises more pro rata but has to pay off rest of the UK debt. Average repayment £4Billion. Pay for Trident £1Billion. Could save £1Billion – minimum pricing. £3Billion? in tax evasion. £4Billion in lost Oil revenues. (High taxation when prices had fallen).

    Total £13Billion. Scotland could borrow £6Billion to invest in the economy. Get renewable Grants from the EU etc. CCS. Worth £Billions.

    The Tories are borrowing and spending £Billions on Hinkley Point, HS2, Heathrow and Trident. A total waste of money with cheaper, safer alternatives. They are cutting NHS and Education spending. Sanctioning and killing off the vulnerable. There have been higher than expected elderly deaths in England because of cuts to social care funding.

    There will be two rail lines to Birmingham. The comparable journey times in Scotland and the North of England take twice as long. They are the lines that need improving for faster rail times throughout Britain.

    Brexit will be a disaster. The Tories will end up spends more for less. Ruining the world economy.

    The LibDems didn’t oust anyone. They got voted out. The 3rd rate rejects. People will get wise to the voting system and only vote for their candidate/party and not give away their vote.

  184. Smallaxe says:

    Good Morning, Everyone.

    It’s a lovely morning here on the border, let’s try and have a more positive outlook today, the last few days have been kind of depressing for all of us, Cheer Up! my Friends.

    “Sun is shining”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOoHTcuORcY
    🙂

    Peace Always

  185. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    It’s a lovely sunny Sunday and your links have made it even brighter, Thank You. Kettle’s on!
    Links, My Precioussss, all Mine, me loves linkyssss
    🙂

    Peace Always

  186. Smallaxe says:

    Nana:

    Depression not allowed today. 🙂
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEzLTSF6XaU

    Peace Always xx

  187. Ken500 says:

    It’s the Greens who collude with the Unionists to build grotesque carbuncles and waste £Millions of taxpayers money. Increasing pollution and traffic chaos in the City. Renege on their own policies for Office and remuneration. They campaign with landowners to stop land coming back into public use for essential roads etc. At a local level that is the problem. They say they support Independence but block SNP majority for local policies and issues in the City. They do not practice what they preach.

    The Greens collude with landowners and stop airport expansion for more direct flights. Force inquiries costing £Millions. Stop Golf Developments supported by the majority and mislead about SSI’s. Writing to the British Geological Society to have SSI status conferred while claiming it already exists. Illegally using insider Council knowledge to stop development when supposedly to be impartial. Collude with LibDems as Tories are less electable.

  188. Liz Rannoch says:

    Edwina Currie on Breakfast (I know, I know) saying that Nicola Sturgeon has painted herself into a corner and that the polls all show that the ‘minority’ of people supporting Independence is dropping and dropping and that most folks now realise that the best thing to do is make a good go of brexit.
    Oh.. and NS is wearing a Thatcher suit – imitation the best form….blah blah
    from a piece in Sunday Telegraph
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/analysisthe-union-risk-mrs-may-has-save/

    Sorry-can’t do archiving.

  189. Smallaxe says:

    Liz Rannoch:

    Liz, we will have Edwina Curry and the rest for breakfast.
    curry for breakfast, Yummy!
    🙂

    Peace Always

  190. Nana says:

    A couple of new blogs here

    http://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/blog/debating-scotlands-unions

    http://www.politico.eu/article/4-takeaways-from-northern-irelands-snap-election-dup-sinn-fein/

    Re posting this

    Tabloid columnist Garry Bushell—convinced he’s 100% English—submits his DNA for testing. Others tested include Tebbit and Carole Thatcher
    https://twitter.com/theDossier_info/status/836591157975085056

    The violent rhetoric from the tories, ‘shoot the fox’

    A tweet from Stu makes headlines but not the tweets from Ian Smart, historywoman and any other unionists spewing venom.

    Holy moly…Tory speaker just said: “I don’t want Nicola Sturgeon’s referendum. Not again. Let’s shoot that fox.
    https://twitter.com/RobertJSomynne/status/838041132563116033

  191. Nana says:

    Here it is Liz. Read it last night, dire stuff

    http://archive.is/4u5HI

  192. Liz Rannoch says:

    @ Smallaxe 8.51

    Yes you’re right as usual. Think I’ll stick with porridge tho’!

    Sorry I didn’t get the message about cheering up first – me baad. lol

  193. Robert Louis says:

    It is becoming increasingly clear that the biggest opponent the independence movement will have this time around is people who have positioned themselves (or who have been ‘positioned’) within the independence movement to sow division.

    London sees ‘divide and conquer’ as their best strategy, as their really is no good reason to continue with this seni-colonial mis-rule of Scotland from England.

    Over and over again we see some ‘voices’ who supposedly support independence, shouting long and hard about what THEIR version of independence is, and how much it differs to OTHER versions of independence. Is it a socialist nirvana, or a green utopia? All they talk is differences and division.

    Our goal is to get independence so the people of Scotland collectively and democratically decide the way Scotland is run. It is only once we have independence that such policies become important. The sole focus of the independence movement is independence, and that is all. The end of the union treaty, the resumption of statehoood, the power for decisions to be made in Scotland by the democratically elected representatives of Scotland. DO NOT LET SOME ‘VOICES’ PERSUADE YOU IT IS NOT.

    If you want a right wing independent Scotland, good for you. Likewise if you want a socialist or greenie independent Scotland. Bottom line, we ALL want independence, because it is only then that ANY of us can shape policies.

    In short, we get independence, then elect a democratic Government. Watch out for our enemies within who seek to divide. The London intelligence services, whose role is to ‘protect and preserve the United Kingdom’, have had plenty time to prepare their stooges. People forced to work on their behalf, either through promised ‘sweeteners’ such as an academic position (way above their talent levels – and obvious to all) in a Scottish university, or downright threats and blackmail (as in ‘oops, we know you looked at kiddie porn or similar, you now work for us and will start attacking the independence movement). That is how security services around the world work. MI5/MI6 is no different.

    Beware the enemies within, who want to sow division. They are starting to get quite ‘shouty’. Ignore their arguments.

  194. Liz Rannoch says:

    @ Nana 8.57 thanks and for all your links. You’re a marvel.

  195. Smallaxe says:

    Liz Rannoch:

    You’re not bad Liz! W/Minster’s Mad, Bad and Dangerous to know.We will have to go.ASAP.
    🙂

    Peace Always

  196. stu mac says:

    McKenna coming late to the “Conflating nationalism and racism” meme. To be fair he does have a go at Labour over this. Final paragraph:

    “Before Christmas, one senior Labour figure took me to lunch to float the idea of Labour positioning itself as ultra-unionist “just to get the local council elections out of the way”. I fear that this is now an embedded philosophy of what remains of the party in Scotland. “What about simply being a no-nonsense, no-frills Labour party fighting for social justice?” I asked him. His expression told me I might as well have been speaking in a foreign tongue.”

  197. Nana says:

    The sunday herald is ____ [insert own word] Might as well be written and edited by the Scotland office where Gardham now resides.

    Don’t buy it.

  198. Smallaxe says:

    stu mac says:

    “What about simply being a no-nonsense, no-frills Labour party fighting for social justice?” I asked him. His expression told me I might as well have been speaking in a foreign tongue.”

    Labour don’t speak our language, “Common Sense and Decency”

    Peace Always

  199. Smallaxe says:

    Nana says:

    The sunday herald is Shite, word inserted!
    🙂

    Peace Always

  200. Dorothy Devine says:

    Nana , as always thank you for the links – I find myself quite pleased with the Highland Times.

    Smallaxe , lucky you! it is dreich here in Glasgow and I have sinusitis so being cheery is oot the windae!

    I have just read a piece on My Feed which states that Russia is considering banning Disney’s Beauty and the Beast because of the gay character .

    I am relatively well read with regard children’s books and for the life of me I cannot recollect a gay character , happy or otherwise in the tale – anyone know differently?

  201. louis.b.argyll says:

    Robert Louis, 9am.

    Very True..

    There are, though, fools in every section of society, normally concentrated at the fringes.

    Nowadays, thanks to Twitter..right-wing numpties can fake both news and their true identities.

    It’s the way twitter works, that it benefits those who are most right-wing/hateful the most. Closely followed by those who’d oppose bullying/fascism with their dying breath.

    (which is also why ‘fierce’ ‘peace-loving’ Scottish nationalists ARE DEMONISED BY THE BIG BRITISH BRUSH OF HATE)

    The Tories lie the most, it’s a fact, we have the current social squeeze as proof.

    Nicola Sturgeon is an angel.. The wee lassie who tells the bully to cut it out, by getting in about the trouble. As does the Rev, who reports them to the headmaster, and takes a severe slagging.

  202. Smallaxe says:

    Dorothy Devine says:

    “I am relatively well read with regard children’s books and for the life of me I cannot recollect a gay character, happy or otherwise in the tale – anyone know differently?”

    LeFou, is the goofy sidekick of Gaston the film’s main villain!
    in the new Disney movie Beauty where he explores his sexuality

    Peace Always

  203. Nana says:

    Haha Smallaxe, I wondered who would be first.

    I’m lost in off topic, the sharp wee DJ picks the best tunes!

  204. Nana says:

    Tweeters get tweeting Rev’s fundraiser. Important as we need as much in the war chest as possible.

    Piece in the sunday times

    Can not archive all as I don’t have a subscription.

    http://archive.is/N7DCt

  205. Smallaxe says:

    Nana:

    The last time that you told me that you were lost was here!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9b7CgTIRKU
    🙂
    Remember?

    Peace Always

  206. Breeks says:

    I’m not depressed by last weeks events, but a bit sullen. It’s like the opening scenes from Gladiator, where Valerius asks Maximus, “Will they fight Sir?”… “We shall know soon enough”.

    I reckon Theresa May’s belligerent speech is more or less apt for the metaphor of an amicable peace being sent back to us minus its head. “They say no”.

    Time will tell whether oor Nicola has correctly judged the range of our catapults.

    I see from Nana’s links to Pete Wishart’s blog that Pete hears the drums of war approaching. That shouldn’t make me happy but it does. Why? Because I remember 2013 and 2014 when people would barely acknowledge the mendacity of the BBC. “No question of bias”, they cried back then… Well, they/we got it half right.

    At least this time, people are willing to stand up to the BBC and the media, because they’re going to have to. It’s going to require discipline, preparedness, and guile.

    The battle lines are there from the Unionists. – We Scottish separatists are going to be skint pariahs if we exit the UK’s single market… (Yeah, I know, the UK’s what??? ) . We risk a very hard Border if we sell our soul to Brussels! The EU is finished you know! Le Pen will burn it all down! We have no mandate for another Referendum, the fist should be respected! (Insert a stray ‘r’ in there if it makes you happy)… The SNP has ruined your country! With their shabby trams, high taxes, and PFI contracts that make your hospitals fall down… err. Did I mention we need 47 new Destroyers? Eh? Nudge, nudge,…

    Kinda funny, but I’m left wondering if there was an admin screw up, and the notes for Theresa May’s speech to conference were left inside the briefcase, and the text she pulled out to read out loud was actually a slamming indictment of her own policy towards collapsing public sector and damaging narrow minded Brexit Nationalism. I take it Theresa doesn’t do irony very well. That wasn’t the funny the bit however; because what I saw was UK Unionist PM talking shite, lying through her teeth with eye watering hypocrisy, emboldened I presume by some firm conviction that flagrant bullshit and a servile media was the tried and tested antidote to Scottish nationalism with a small ‘n’. Strike three Theresa; you’re out of date, you’re out of luck, and you’re out of Europe.

    I confess too, I’d like to have been a fly on the wall as Theresa and Ruth compared notes after the speech. “Harrison! You told me that Conservatism was resurgent in Scotland. What the feck???Where the bloody hell are they? One SAGA busload on an overnight stop in Glasgow? That’s it??”
    “Gosh Yes! Your majesty. Woof! Woof! You’ve hit the nail right on the head. Excellent Ma’am. Thank you”.
    “I meant that as bad Harrison. They were meant be here in their thousands, bedecked in red white and blue ready to cheer my rousing delivery, and spill out into the streets demanding the head of Sturgeon. I counted two. Two! Where were these other ars.. patriots with waistcoats, Scotland in Union wasn’t it? Where the feck were they?”
    “Gosh Yes. That’ll show these pesky Nats we mean business. Dive! Dive! Ha ha! Attackattackattacka”.

    “…. Who the feck is this idiot again?”
    “That’s Wing Commander Ruth Harr.. Davidson your Grace. The err, .. leader here ma’am. Nutty as a fruitcake I’m afraid. Took one in the neck during a nasty scrape with the Sturgeonator, and never been quite the same since. Thinks she’s going to Scotland’s First Minister one day. All very sad…”
    “Ah, I see, the poor deluded fool, and so young too…”

  207. Smallaxe says:

    Money can’t buy you freedom and it won’t buy the yoons a blade of grass in Scotland. Even if you’re daddy is rich.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bB-mE4c74k

    Peace Always

  208. Smallaxe says:

    Greggs Bakery:

    Colin Gregg the heir to Greggs bakery chain has been convicted of a string of sex offences against boys aged 10/14yrs old at Leeds Crown Court.

    Nae Peace tae HIM!!

    Peace Always to Us

  209. heedtracker says:

    Nana says:
    5 March, 2017 at 9:25 am
    The sunday herald is ____

    It is interesting to speculate why they’ve come after the blogger of WoS like this and they’re fluffing future Baron Fluffie too.

    Should be also interesting hearing what Rock has to say about it all. Although he only does the back shift.

  210. Dorothy Devine says:

    Smallaxe , thank you LeFou obviously whooshed over my head .

    Still dreich in Glasgow – I was kind of hoping that you had blown the sunshine north.

  211. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Wendy Shaw

    Cmon noo Wendy. I close my eyes stepped roon the curtain, or you kin sing the wan you sung last night at McGinns, but stop Lurking lol.

  212. Giving Goose says:

    About the tweet from Rev Stu.
    I think it’s hilarious. I certainly laughed at that. Nice one Rev.

    You know what?

    I think it is about time we all stopped being tightly controlled by the Yoon media about what can and cannot be said.

    Get the satire out there. Take the piss when the opportunity presents itself.

    Let’s face it, Unionism and many of it’s stalwart supporters are a complete joke.

    If Fluffy and co are going to act like tinpot Neo Nazis, practicing Darwinian social policies and “othering” people because they are of foreign origin, poor, or needy, then I for one will not be thinking twice about belittling these monsters publicly.

    David Mundell and co are a joke, a nasty joke who deserve ridicule at every opportunity. Every verbal rotten tomato, piece of shit and satirical comment thaf comes to mind should be flung their way.

    Long live free speech.

    I won”t be verbally tied down or allow my language parameters to be set by a bunch of Unionist Tories and their jackbooted henchmen/ women in the press.

    Fuck them and Je Suis Rev Stu!

  213. Smallaxe says:

    Dorothy Devine:

    I will do my best to send some sunshine up to Glasow, I hope your sinuses clear, it’s a rotten feeling.

    “Breathe”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAttAG4ikuc

    Peace Always

  214. Smallaxe says:

    Giving Goose says:

    “David Mundell and co are a joke, a nasty joke who deserve ridicule at every opportunity. Every verbal rotten tomato, piece of shit and satirical comment that comes to mind should be flung their way.

    Long live free speech.

    I won”t be verbally tied down or allow my language parameters to be set by a bunch of Unionist Tories and their jackbooted henchmen/ women in the press.

    Fuck them and Je Suis Rev Stu!”

    Oliver Mundell was asked, “Did you wake up grumpy this morning?”
    He said “Naw ah’ jist left ma Da sleepin'”

    Peace Always

  215. heedtracker says:

    Fuck them and Je Suis Rev Stu!

    At this stage on the road to Scottish indy, any publicity is good publicity, especially if its all about nothing too. So big thanks to Herald liggers

    “Colin Gregg the heir to Greggs bakery chain has been convicted”
    So ask Alexa brought up, which is from today, in Londonium, the unfriendliest place in the world, says Metro and

    http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/05/13-things-that-will-make-you-realise-youve-been-living-away-from-scotland-for-too-long-6476410/#mv-a

    5. You have no idea who Willie Rennie is.
    Does anyone?
    At a push, you can name one other Scottish party leader, aside from Nicola Sturgeon, who is only well-known outside of Scotland due to the media’s bizarre infatuation with her shoes.

    13. You are no longer offended when people call you English.
    Just kidding. Any true Scot knows that will never happen.

  216. galamcennalath says:

    @Nana

    https://petewishart.wordpress.com/2017/03/04/the-next-union-campaign-will-be-full-frontal-belligerent-and-aggressive/

    I think Pete’s analysis of the Tory state of mind is spot on.

    ” Their membership and MPs grow tired of ‘pandering’ to Scotland and the next campaign will therefore be a ‘no more Mr nice guy’ full frontal type affair.”

    They will be particularly unhappy about Scotland stirring it in the middle of their Brexit talks.

    It will all be unpleasant but their arrogance, overlording, and aggression will not go down at all well in Scotland.

    It is often said, it will take the Tories’ assistance for Scottish independence to happen.

  217. Bob Mack says:

    Can we stop calling him “Fluffy”. He is a malevolent little oik. Anybody that can physically vote for the measures now being brought to bear on the poorer and middle income families in this country is far removed from being fluffy or cuddly.

    WE need a new moniker for this little viper.

  218. Capella says:

    Short but sad clip of the death of Shifa Gardi, a Kurdish reporter, in Mosul. I haven’t seen much about the Mosul war. Brief mention of a chemical attack (which is strange since Assad is supposed to be the one who uses chemical weapons in Syria NOT ISIS.) But this seems to sum up the tragic waste of these endless wars.

    https://twitter.com/RudawEnglish/status/835603004401324033

  219. Smallaxe says:

    galamcennalath says:
    @Nana

    “I think Pete’s analysis of the Tory state of mind is spot on.”

    ” Their membership and MPs grow tired of ‘pandering’ to Scotland and the next campaign will, therefore, be a ‘no more Mr nice guy’ full frontal type affair.”

    Ha Ha! I bet that you don’t have a link to when they were “Nice Guys”

    Peace Always

  220. Nana says:

    Oh my goodness, this from Rev’s twitter

    Just been told by @jwdevoy that he was violently beaten up in Holyrood Park last night for being a Yesser 🙁

  221. stu mac says:

    @Hermodr
    ——————–

    The SNP got into power up here just as the Banking crisis blew everything up in the air. Since then we’ve had close to 10 years of austerity and Tory policies which have hurt the weakest in society. The SNP have tried to ameliorate the situation up here – despite constantly reducing budgets due to said austerity policy. To some extent they have succeeded; things are still tough and getting tougher but a look at what’s happening in England shows they are doing a decent job.

    I don’t know what you can do about folk who can’t see that the real problem is the policies of the right-wing parties in England and the effect this has on our economy and spending. Dugdale for instance constantly goes on about “the SNP should stop blaming Westminster” but where the hell does she think all these cuts are coming from? Do your folks realise all Scottish taxes go south and we get a portion back, a portion that’s been cut more and more over the last decade?

  222. Smallaxe says:

    A new name for Mundell? How about Nundell? After all his contribution to Scotland’s welfare has been “‘None”. He hasn’t done a thing to boost Scotland’s Commonweal!

    Peace Always

  223. Smallaxe says:

    Nana:

    A tragic but not totally unexpected incident.Please, everyone, I have said this before but watch your children, these thugs, unfortunately, teach to their children that violence is the answer to any perceived threat to their disgusting way of life.

    I sincerely hope that the person who was assaulted is not badly injured, if they are can we help them in any way?

    Sadly but still,
    PEACE ALWAYS

  224. galamcennalath says:

    Smallaxe says:

    I bet that you don’t have a link to when they were “Nice Guys”

    Not for the Tories, that is for sure. 🙂

    Pete probably meant BT1 rather than specifically Tories. The Tories kept behind the scenes of BT1. BT2 will simply be the Tories, I guess.

    And BT1 did win IMO by being the ‘nice guys’ in the last few weeks offering Scotland everything short of free beer and pizza.

    The idea that IndyRef2 will essentially be Scotland versus the toxic Tories fills me with optimism!

  225. heedtracker says:

    Smallaxe says:
    5 March, 2017 at 11:56 am
    Nana:

    Thug life is just part of life, in the UK sadly and for under 30’s men. If you get to 30 in the UK without getting a sound kicking, you’re probably a royal prince of the UK.

  226. Smallaxe says:

    galamcennalath says:

    “The idea that IndyRef2 will essentially be Scotland versus the toxic Tories fills me with optimism!”

    I feel exactly the same optimism my Friend and hope that no voters will stop and take notice of the toxicity that they are supporting and have a change of heart and vote differently next time.

    Peace Always

  227. galamcennalath says:

    Telegraph headline …

    “Peers and nationalists must not be allowed to block Brexit”

    Now I’m confused. I thought Brexit was being driven relentlessly forward by the dedicated nationalists!

  228. Smallaxe says:

    “heedtracker says:
    5 March, 2017 at 12:03 pm
    Smallaxe says:
    5 March, 2017 at 11:56 am
    Nana:”

    heedy, my friend would you please use inverted comma’s or some other device because your post looks as if I said what you actually said.I thank you in advance. 🙂

    Peace Always

  229. galamcennalath says:

    Brexit is a really bad idea …

    http://archive.is/gQP2X

    … who would have guessed, eh?

  230. louis.b.argyll says:

    The future itself, is at stake across the Earth.

    Put the overdevelopment of the West at the expense of the rest, to one side…

    Overpopulation vs automation means there will be less ‘essential’ jobs for workers to do.

    Wealth and money will be subjectively viewed as both obscene and trivial.

    TODAY, those in power/regulators, along with market forces are flying into the sun, blinded by the promise of ever greater wealth.

    Neo-Carbon-Denyers have moved into the positions formerly held by hawks and magnates.

    Without Independence, we will be swept up, without a voice or a nation, to protect us from oblivion.

  231. gus1940 says:

    Hedtracker at 10.40

    I think the problem with the on-line SH is that unlike the print edition it is just The Herald’s rolling news on-line edition with some new items frm the SH – so the item re Stu’s Fluffy remarks is just rolled over from yesterday’s Herald.

  232. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Can we stop calling him “Fluffy”. He is a malevolent little oik.”

    Blue Mundy?

  233. Smallaxe says:

    louis.b.argyll says:
    5 March, 2017 at 12:40 pm
    “The future itself, is at stake across the Earth.
    TODAY, those in power/regulators, along with market forces are flying into the sun, blinded by the promise of ever greater wealth.”

    I hope they are using the wings of Icarus.
    🙂

    Peace Always

  234. gordoz says:

    Having seen this going on all morning must say yes – I did get the Revs joke, at Mundells expense on twitter and I realize the fuax outrage is complete hypocritical garbage. But also, I really wish he would sometimes reflect on the collateral damage (via opportunist enemies / even from within SHerald) and resist giving them this type of ammo by realizing he is too important to our cause. That his profile is so crucial, that the Unionist establishment will ‘make hay’ at every opportunity with such unguarded moments, to distract / deflect from important things such as an orchestrated piss poor Tory conference and complete guff going about like dubious Express polls.

    We may be entering a critical stage and professionalism will come into this at some point, lets not make it easy for them ?

    Just a personal opinion – I go along with Pauls thoughts below.

    https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/

  235. Graf Midgehunter says:

    @ Bob Mack says:

    “Can we stop calling him “Fluffy”. He is a malevolent little oik. Anybody that can physically vote for the measures now being brought to bear on the poorer and middle income families in this country is far removed from being fluffy or cuddly.

    WE need a new moniker for this little viper.”

    How about May’s – Ventrilo("Quizmaster" - Ed) (Too long I know 🙁 )

  236. heedtracker says:

    “Fluffy” just works. Viceroy Baron Fluffie or to give him his full name and title,

    Lord High Commissioner Fluffieness to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland precedes the Duke of Rothesay, His Royal Highness The Prince Fluffie Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Earl of Chester, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, Royal Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Extra Knight of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, Grand Master and Principal Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Member of the Order of Merit, Knight of the Order of Australia, Companion of the Queen’s Service Order, Member of Her Majesty’s Most Honourable Privy Council, Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty, or just Fluffie.

    Ok that’s clearly not Baron Fluffie but it SHOULD be. And try messing with that dude’s Scotland region of greater England, vile seps.

  237. RogueCoder says:

    Blatant promotional comment (but it supports Wings!)

    Trying to get as many high visibility pro-indy materials out before SNP conference for marches and events.

    New T-shirts from ayeMail from £5.50: https://www.ayemail.scot/store/?group_id=19

    And an epic four-flag pack (including Wings and Yes2) for £19:
    https://www.ayemail.scot/store/?group_id=12

  238. heedtracker says:

    gordoz

    If it wasn’t one gag, its going to be something else.

    Last week, we were all racists, this week, homophobic. Next week, Severin Carrell has something very nasty cooking up in Graun Towers. Its only one of the myriad ways and the how and why’s our neighbours are keeping control of their Scotland region.

  239. heedtracker says:

    So its been a catastrophically awfull week for Fluffie, Ligger Neil made him shake with fright as Fluffie went loco, Fluffie Jnr is clearly just not up to the task of anything at all really, stuff like this is going on in Scotland, thanks England’s Leave catastrophe

    https://stv.tv/news/east-central/1382249-scots-university-to-axe-up-to-100-jobs-amid-14m-cuts/

    And now they all go after a politics blogger in Bath, for homophobia nonsense and everyone runs after them. Fluffie clings on, just.

  240. louis.b.argyll says:

    Smallaxe..
    I hope they are using the wings of Icarus.
    Peace Always

    Unlikely, cheaper nowadays to fly into the sun using hi-tech weapons systems. They plunder our welfare systems to pay for it.

    Why is WAR ring-fenced. Surely we should create the standard of living we desire – and protect THAT, with defence budgets.

  241. Dr Jim says:

    Don’t allow them to question us in order that we should forget they’re the ones who are wrong

    Scotland didn’t cause the trouble, don’t allow them to switch the argument as to how Scotland should cope with their problem

    Scotland should attack them not wait to defend ourselves against their tactics

    The only way they win is by division it’s the Great UK of England way

  242. Smallaxe says:

    louis.b.argyll:

    Well put, my Friend, we do not need the WMDs that only mark our nation as a target, a defence budget is all we need as I can think of no reason that we would attack another country unprovoked.

    Peace Always

  243. galamcennalath says:

    Breaking News 🙂 … post Brexit, the new London embassy for iScotland has already been earmarked …

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dover_House

    … David Mundell is expected to leave shortly before the new ambassador takes up residence on Independence/Brexit Day. The Union Flag and Saltire which currently are flown can expected to be replaced by the EU Flag and Satire.

  244. manandboy says:

    HOW ENGLAND THINKS OF SCOTLAND – The thinking behind Better Together

    To understand Theresa May and where she is coming from, it helps to think of someone, from another century perhaps, who came to own a slave.
    The slave wants to be free from his shackles – and from his owner.
    (Theresa May knows this is how at least half of Scotland, as a country, feels.)

    But she knows how valuable the slave (Scotland) is to her, and that it would be a huge, huge loss to her if the slave were to break the chains and become free again.
    So, initially, she takes every measure to make sure this doesn’t happen.

    The slave owner is afraid of the slave, fearing the slave would perhaps seek revenge for the loss of his freedom, the fruits of his labour, and normal family life.
    And so the owner decides to lie to the slave, so as to try to make him feel worthless, and then to make him feel grateful to his owner for saving him from a miserable life,
    and for taking care of all his needs.

    Eventually, the slave begins to gradually believe the lies he is told, and so he becomes more and more obedient and compliant in all things, until he no longer thinks of freedom and no longer needs the chains.
    He becomes grateful to his owner, and learns to accept the owner’s power over him.

    The slave is made to work hard every day, receiving only his food and a bed in a bunk house at night.
    Over time he begins to notice how more and more, his owner wears fine clothes and lives in a new house, much bigger than the old one.
    The slave doesn’t make the connection between his own hard work and his owners lifestyle.

    The lies continue. The slave is told frequently that the owner is an astute businessman, who trades very successfully.
    The slave is told he is too poor and too stupid to become successful, even if he were free.
    Every so often the shackles are put on, as a reminder to the slave that he belongs to his master.

    One day, the owner hears that changes in the law have been made and that slaves everywhere are being freed.
    The owner is aghast at this news as he contemplates the consequences of losing his slave completely.
    So he goes to the slave, this time to lie about the slaves elsewhere who are now free and about the terrible time they are having, with no home and no owner to care for them. The slave believes what his owner says and his fear grows.
    The owner asks the slave if he wants to stay or go free (IndyRef14).
    But the slave is afraid, and believing that he will always be better together with his owner, he chooses to stay with his master.

    Theresa May knows all the lies that work best to keep a slave in his place. They have been handed down since the 16th century, through out the centuries of the Empire and global Colonial rule.

    The lies are always the same, be it for one slave, or 10 or even for an entire colony of 5 million slaves, like Scotland.
    Nor does it matter in which century the lies are used – the 16th, 17th, 18th or in 2017.

    Theresa May and this Government are desperate to retain control of Scotland and to reap the wealth from Scotland’s people and Scotland’s natural resources, especially Scotland’s vast energy assets.
    To do this, she plans to separate Scotland from the protection of European Law, to dismantle devolution, to put and end to the Scottish Parliament, and after that to plunder Scotland at will, while laying waste to the Scottish Nation.

    Will Scotland choose freedom, or more Westminster Rule?

    Slavery through fear or Freedom through Bravery?

  245. Old dearie says:

    Been in NZ for an extended stay so enjoying being back in the thick of it. It was great to see Fluffy squirm on DP. Angus Robertson is getting much better at dealing with hostile questions and turned the tables successfully.

    O/T Has anyone else in West Edinburgh had problems buying Sunday Herald today. Tesco didn’t get any and I couldn’t get one at Co-op or Gyle Centre M&S, Morrisons or W H Smith. Conspiracy theory comes to mind. Odd that the only independence supporting paper can’t be got on W/E of Tory conf.

  246. gordoz says:

    Absolutely disgusting ‘racist’ gutter attack on Robert J Somynne (Englishman of colour – Scots Indy supporter).

    Robert – I feel physically sick when I see and read this hateful bile. Whoever sent it; Scotland is better than this normally.

    So, so sorry for this Robert – I read his Guardian piece in response to the Claire Heughan nationalism = racism guff manufactured by Khan and others, online and was so proud of Scotland.

    See details below from Nick Eardley BBC (surely will be reported now ?)

    https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc

  247. Smallaxe says:

    gordoz:

    I have just followed your link, I have two Afro/Carib/Scot. grandchildren living in England and I find this beyond disgusting and to be honest a little frightening. I do not fear the “Thing” who tweeted this, I do as a pacifist fear for the “Thing” and anyone else of this persuasion who thinks like “IT”.

    I’m afraid my beliefs would be put aside while I dealt with them, my anger even now shames me but I can live with it.

    Please convey to Robert my utmost regret that a so-called “human being” like this can exist in the 21st century and tell him that I send my love and fraternal support to him in Peace and solidarity always.Thank you.

    Peace Always

  248. Flower of Scotland says:

    @manandboy 4.10

    Thanks for that analogy. I’ve copied it to my notes to use.

    Threats to Scotland’s future seem to be coming fast and furiously. We haven’t even had the SNP Conference yet and no referendum has been called.

    They are very worried! So they should be!

  249. Liz Rannoch says:

    Renaming the Fluff. How about ‘shoogly peg’?

  250. Hamish100 says:

    It is necessary now more than ever that so called intemperate comments placed on twitter or anywhere else (allegedly by pro independence supporters) will be gleefully swept up by the unionists. One stupid comment is picked up and thrown back at us all as being homophobic or racist or whatever.
    All rubbish of course but we will all be tarred with the same brush. That is there intent.
    So can we all think twice about what we say?
    Of course there are the agent provocateur’s- The British State are past masters of this who will encourage such bloggers or write their own lies for others to run with.
    We have to be on our guard for Scotlands’ sake.

  251. frogesque says:

    @Liz Rannoch 6.32

    Fluffy still works for me but Tea Boy comes pretty close.

    Certainly wouldn’t want anything that suggests he’s a macho go-getter.

  252. Liz g says:

    Liz Rannoch @ 6.42 & Frogesque @ 6.53
    Thing is ….How much longer will he be around,him and Son of Fluffy?
    Will it be worth the time and effort to rebrand the Fluffsters?
    Do we really think that they will still be involved in Scottish politics for much longer…..How is that ever gonnay happen?
    Fun to Imagine where cotton ball and Q tip will fit in an Independent Scotland!

    Smallaxe @ 6.11…..
    Just to let everyone know he speaks for me as well.

  253. Iain says:

    For Fluffy, how about The Grand Poobah from Gilbert and Sullivan’s comic opera, The Mikado?

    from Wikipedia: Grand Poobah is a term derived from the name of the haughty character Pooh-Bah in Gilbert and Sullivan’s The Mikado (1885).[1] In this comic opera, Pooh-Bah holds numerous exalted offices, including “First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral … Archbishop … Lord Mayor” and “Lord High Everything Else”. The name has come to be used as a mocking title for someone self-important or locally high-ranking and who either exhibits an inflated self-regard or who has limited authority while taking impressive titles.[2]

  254. Dr Jim says:

    “Biscuit fetcher” is my particular favourite

  255. yesindyref2 says:

    “Tug” to his pals. Full name Forelock Tug Mundell (Senior).

    Onyways, apprentice son got his works vehicle at last, brand new. Delighted with number plate which starts “YE66”.

  256. Dr Jim says:

    There are a bunch of Ukipper types posing as Independence supporters opening up Twitter accounts and attempting to split the Yes movement by advocating voting No to Independence until it’s the kind of Independence they want

    These people are frauds who claim to be SNP members and general supporters of Indy they’re not

    They’re Ukippers and Tories

  257. Thepnr says:

    @yesindyref2

    LOL though that’s his short name. “Tugger” Mundell sounds a lot grander 🙂

  258. Meg merrilees says:

    Top 5 words in the Tory party conference:
    Independence
    Grievance
    SNP
    Local
    Referendum

  259. yesindyref2 says:

    Very poor Sunday Herald, there are real stories out of that conference, and clawing back of powers to Westminster, but the Herald tyop stories are Mundell, McColl at a dinner party (no menu given), Tories everywhere, and a pathtetic, sorry no other word for it, article from Angela Haggerty defending someone who insulted a whole movement, including me, and including her, though that’s because she’s a woman: “Please, spit in my face again, I liked it”.

  260. yesindyref2 says:

    @Thepnr
    Yes, your version of the full name is better!

  261. heedtracker says:

    Hamish100

    Of course there are the agent provocateur’s- The British State are past masters of this who will encourage such bloggers or write their own lies for others to run with.
    We have to be on our guard for Scotlands’ sake.

    It may be a past master but look at where its got them, England faced with being England only again. Its been quite a ride empire wise but its hardly been a success or a 1000 year empire.

    Our chums in south do not seem to spend their time and energy being online provocateurs, probably because no one cares really, if someone is being to rude say JK Rowling, Mayor Kahn, future Baron Fluffie etc.

    Their real power is putting the fear of god up or rather down those leafy Scots drive ways. That’s where they went in 2014, where they are now and where they’re going next referendum.

    Just ask a big fat lad currently retired, stay at home dad, on quite a lot of BetterTogether dosh, in a very pleasant sleepy Glasgow suburb.

    Blair McDougall Retweeted
    Martin McCluskey?Verified account @martinmccluskey 8h8 hours ago

    Martin McCluskey Retweeted Angus Robertson
    Abundantly clear SNP strategy is now to say devolution under threat on repeat. Their own scaremongering fake news right there.

  262. Breeks says:

    I add my voice to the support for Robert Somynne. I cannot imagine what goes through your head when you get shite like that coming through your phone.

    For those who don’t know, it was Robert who wrote the Guardian article which tried to put the record straight after the fallout from Sadiq Khans allegations of racism, and in particular, the lamentable Guardian article written by Claire Heuchan. And a very pleasant and uplifting rebuttal it was too.

    He’s one of us is Mr Somynne, a good guy with the guts to stand up for what is right. He is also on record as saying how he felt uncommonly welcomed by us Yessers, and very much a part of the great adventure.

    You’re not just welcome in Scotland Mr Somynne, if you’re not here already, and there’s no room left for you when you get here, then you can have my spot.

  263. heedtracker says:

    Whatever happened to that doctorate student that The Graun published because she agreed with Mayor Khan, then had to quit twitter because of “Three days of racist trolling” that she couldn’t produce? Did she realise no one cares, other than Graun gimps:D

    Sister Outrider?Verified account @ClaireShrugged 10h10 hours ago
    More
    I am back. And I refuse to be intimidated out of public discourse by racists & trolls. Besides, I missed all the brilliant women on my feed.

  264. Capella says:

    re racist tweet to Robert J Somynne – I do hope he reports it and that the nasty individual who sent it is named and shamed, and prosecuted. We have no tolerance for bigots.

  265. crazycat says:

    There’s a tweet (https://twitter.com/ScotIndyDebate/status/838419228176838659) showing how often Theresa mentoned the SNP (and Harry Potter) in her conference speech.

    I’ve just watched it with the sound off. Even her body language is Thatcheresque.

  266. Bob Mack says:

    Someone should point Angela Haggerty in the direction of that shocker of a tweet to Robert Somynne. That is real racism. That is worthy of comment and revulsion.
    That is our real enemy. Any papers mentioned it yet ? Not likely.

    I am fizzing mad.

  267. Smallaxe says:

    “yesindyref2 says:
    5 March, 2017 at 7:42 pm
    @Thepnr
    Yes, your version of the full name is better!”

    Without meaning to offend anyone whosoever, whatsoever, whichsoever or even howsoever.

    I think that it is an absolutely superb and masturbatenly appropriate Title for the excruciatingly insufferable little Toad.

    I would also if may, bring to the attention of all the possibly whichever sensitive souls to whom the word that I used was the word, Toad. I deliberately avoided using the word WANKER as this may have been misconstrued completely by some.
    🙂

    Peace Always

  268. Thepnr says:

    @Smallaxe

    Now now Smallaxe, you know perfectly well I was referring to a Tugger of forelocks 🙂

  269. Smallaxe says:

    crazycat says:
    5 March, 2017 at 8:25 pm
    “There’s a tweet”
    crazycat,
    I’ve just tried that,you’re right! That tweet made that twit look like a (far) right TWAT!
    🙂

    Peace Always

  270. crazycat says:

    @ Smallaxe

    Peace to you too, also always.

  271. Smallaxe says:

    crazycat:

    Dae mae a wee flavour, wiud ye? Gonny puit this (cher) efter the last T in TWAT ah furgoat tae dae it.Ta.
    🙂

    Peace always

  272. Smallaxe says:

    Thepnr says:

    “Tugger of forelocks”

    Tugger of fore….wit’ speak up man I can hardly hear you, I’m engrossed in Ludvig Van Beethoven’s 5th and the beauty of this great work of art has entranced me immensely, I wonder where in my home I should mount this ethereal Painting.
    🙂

    Peace Always

  273. heedtracker says:

    See details below from Nick Eardley BBC (surely will be reported now ?)

    Never heard of him but cant think why he’s a junior BBC ligger in waiting, Where do they get them all?

    Nick Eardley?Verified account @nickeardleybbc Mar 3
    More
    Ruth Davidson confirms powers will be repatriated to U.K. level post-Brexit, then devolved further after discussion #BBCGMS

  274. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    I have always called Mundell, “PowderPuff Mundell” due to his lack of forcefulness.

    He is your ultimate yes man, just the way Treeza likes them.

    The guy is a dud.

  275. Hamish100 says:

    Och Well

    Mundell has the measure of peace lovers.

    Several hours discussing what nickname to give him.

    Yip that will aid self determination and independence.

    Peace always- sorry that’s just a deflection.

  276. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    crazycat 8.25pm

    Had a laugh at that video of Treeza and her 24 mentions of the SNP

    https://twitter.com/ScotIndyDebate/status/838419228176838659

    I wonder if Kezia mentioned the SNP more than 24 times at her Conference???

  277. Rock says:

    Nana,

    “The sunday herald is ____ [insert own word] Might as well be written and edited by the Scotland office where Gardham now resides.

    Don’t buy it.”

    It won’t be long now before the more gullible independence supporters realise that the only purpose of The Sunday Herald’s younger sister The National is to milk them.

  278. Orri says:

    Given there’s two of them that’d make him Mundell A. Mundella, with a touch of irony. Pushing it a step forward call him Nelson. If he’s actually named his son after Cromwell can he really complain about being nicknamed after a British hero?

  279. Thepnr says:

    The majority that post on Wings are immersed in politics 24/7. When I’m not at work I’m reading all day everyday. Not just Wings of course as that would be pointless.

    I try my best to educate myself and I do think I’m pretty clued up as to what is happening not just in the UK but the EU and the wider world as well.

    When I find something interesting that hasn’t already been mentioned on Wings then I may put a link and give my opinion, I think that’s how Wings mostly works.

    There do come times though and now is one of them when there hasn’t been an article of interest for a day or two posted by the Rev and everything wanders off topic and in fact all over the place. No harm in that and it’s also when you get the “joke” posts about a new nickname for “Fluffy” Mundell. No harm in that either.

    Let’s call it light relief and just a bit of a laugh, trying to be serious and focused every waking hour is a strain. I don’t know how anyone else posting or reading on Wings feels about this and I guess a fair few would disagree and say that it should only be for informative posts. Triviality has no place here, well Wings has been going a wee while now and triviality has always had a place.

    It’s called having a laugh, laughing reduces stress don’t you know!

  280. Smallaxe says:

    Hamish100 says:

    “Mundell has the measure of peace lovers.

    Several hours discussing what nickname to give him.

    Yip that will aid self determination and independence.

    Peace always- sorry that’s just a deflection.”

    Peace a deflection!, from what? Anyone who objects to Love and Peace and who also professes to be a Christian, should in my not so humble opinion go back and read the New Testament.I assume that a few pages may be stuck together by some unknown substance and the message may have been missed entirely.

    A little time spent away from the worries and problems that many of us have to endure on a daily basis is a relaxing and pleasant
    means of gathering our strength and boosting our morale, enabling us to return refreshed to the matter of freeing our Kingdom Nation from the obscene catastrophe in which we are entangled.
    Scroll on!

    Peace Always ALL WAYS

  281. Rock says:

    Hamish100,

    “It is necessary now more than ever that so called intemperate comments placed on twitter or anywhere else (allegedly by pro independence supporters) will be gleefully swept up by the unionists. One stupid comment is picked up and thrown back at us all as being homophobic or racist or whatever.”

    Don’t be afraid of the bastards, say it as it is.

    This is the Rev. Stuart Campbell and WOS, not The National.

    And before you ask again, Hamish100, I answered your question on the same thread it had been asked:

    Hamish100,

    “I have asked you before if you prefer the Mail, Express etc. Never got a response.”

    Rock,

    “Stop being like Nick Robinson of the BBC.

    I had given you a response (The centrifuge):

    Hamish100,

    “I asked you before — do you by the Mail, Express, Record?”

    Rock,

    “No, none.”

  282. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Thepnr 10.45pm

    Here Here

    Call it Scots humour.

  283. heedtracker says:

    Hard to believe this was only short in the closet 7 years ago,. Fluffie popped up and out of the yoon firmament when he was reporterised by the torygraph spending over £3 grand on photo shots of himself in his constituency. It was very funny then too.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5413036/David-Mundell-Claimed-more-than-3000-on-MPs-expenses-to-take-photographs-of-himself.html

    The “Out and About” section of his website displays more than 700 pictures, mostly of Mr Mundell in various different parts of his Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale constituency.

    I mean come on! Cry for help, toryboy style. Unless he came out before that. Cant mind, could care less.

  284. heedtracker says:

    Rock says:
    5 March, 2017 at 10:56 pm
    Hamish100

    Hey Rock, who’s your SNP MP and what do you rate them? MSP too Rock. It would be great to hear your views on them, and makes a nice change from your ball achingly boring stuff about one newspaper.

  285. Still Positive says:

    Too true the pnr @ 10.45.

    We can balance the serious stuff with the mundane – not Mundell, a waste of space as far as Scotland is concerned.

    Been reading more this weekend on how Scotland has been trading in Europe for 1000 years and also further afield.

    Really interesting article on trade with Japan on newsnet.scot. Fiona Hyslop was there recently to reassure the Japanese that Scotland will not be isolated, as they once were. Looks promising for more Japanese jobs to come to Scotland in EU rather than England outwith EU.

  286. heedtracker says:

    Wow Fluffie only came out last year.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35301898

    A Downing Street spokesman said the prime minister was “very pleased” by Mr Mundell’s “very personal statement” and that it was “very encouraging to see”.

    The fabulous history of gay Scotland

    The link to the history of gay link is BBC creepy too. All that history and the fluffster’s a lifetime tory politician who’s only contribution was not come out. Can the tories get any more vile? sure.

  287. Cherry says:

    Regarding Fluffy…i think it should just stay as Fluffy…I don’t think it makes him cuddly or sweet…it shows our complete contempt for him and shows that we have no regard for him or his views on anything…he’s a jumped up nobody! How he sleeps at night knowing that thousands of people have no warm bed…because of his party policy…enough said!

  288. Orri says:

    Not sure we’re allowed to call him Fluffy. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fluffer shows the danger in dismissing the potential homophobic origins of the nickname.

  289. stonefree says:

    @ Robert Kerr 9:20 pm

    It surfaced and sank instantly about a month ago, and I thought PSA gets Opel, and shuts Vauxhall in England, there will be a load of unhappy bunnies,
    With Brexit in place Vauxhall would be a costly liability

  290. Smallaxe says:

    A Deflection!

    Scotland’s seas and beaches
    Shocking!

    Alice Hunter, Greenpeace
    To Smallaxe
    5 Mar at 2:09 PM

    Hi Smallaxe,

    Great news – a motion has been put forward in the Scottish parliament in support of a deposit-return scheme!

    This is a huge step forward in the fight against plastic pollution – but only if enough MSPs add their support.

    A recent poll showed that 78% of people surveyed in Scotland said they support the creation of a return scheme – adding a small deposit on each plastic bottle you buy, which you get back when you return it.

    Whether it’s because you hate seeing plastic in local rivers and beaches, or because you’re moved by the images of seabirds with stomachs full of bottle tops, MSPs need to hear from their constituents why you care about plastic pollution.

    Please tell your MSPs why you support a deposit-return scheme for
    PlPlastic doesn’t belong in our oceans. With over 16 million plastic bottles going unrecycled in the UK every day, the time to act is now.

    The more of us who contact our MSPs, the more likely they are to support the motion. And the more MSPs who add their support, the more likely it is to be successful!

    Please email your MSPs and ask them to take this important step to show their commitment to fighting plastic pollution in our oceans:
    Please send an email
    Thanks so much for all you do,

    Alice

    I have already today e-mailed every relevant MSP of every party in my Region down to and including Mundell. This is one of a few things that I did today for Scotland’s benefit, this one being to get our seas and beaches a fit place to enjoy and produce fish that are fit for human consumption, not polluted by Plastic Particles which the fish are eating.

    I have to wonder what some others have done today for Scotland.

    Peace Always my Friends

  291. Thepnr says:

    Nothing happening so let’s talk about “name calling”.

    I suppose demonising would be a better description and that’s exactly what the media in the UK do on a daily basis to Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP.

    There’s a very good reason for this of course in their eyes, they want your average voter to think poorly of those they target. It’s not rocket science now is it.

    We on the side of Independence do a bit of that too, think of “Red Tories” as a description of the Labour party. Well that one seems to have stuck and looks like it worked out prety well, at least for us.

    How about Mis-Reporting Scotland? Well we don’t know yet the results of that but I would believe it hasn’t done the BBC any favours.

    Giving our opponents a nickname that doesn’t show them in a good light might not be politically correct but it can be effective. I wouldn’t shy away from that. We are in this fight to win.

    Humour can help us win even if it’s “not nice”.

    Nice people rarely win you have to use every tool at your disposal, making fun of a political opponent is nothing compared to slashing benefits for 160,000 disabled or taking housing benefit away from 18-21 year olds as has happened just this week.

    Let’s get our priorities right.

  292. Chick McGregor says:

    @Thepnr

    As you know, all my posts are serious. 🙂

    But seriously 🙂

    It is getting harder to make satirical comment on the internet.

    A once preserved area in the Brit media for fully establishment programmed public schoolboys who never grew up, it had, temporarily, suffered the inclusion of a rather more disparaging or worse still, more penetrating, contribution from members of the lower order.

    Disgusting.

    This potential genuine threat to the established order must, of course, be quelled at all cost.

    All commentary on the establishment must once more be returned to a safe pair of neurons residing in the cranium of fully conditioned members of the eliteratti.

    Only bona fide member of the establishment can criticise the establishment.

    Otherwise, what’s next? The police being investigated by other than the police? The army? the government? the press?

    My God they’ll be suggesting non self regulation for business next.

    We saw off the threat of those leftie standups on TV a couple of decades ago by simply depriving them of the oxygen of publicity and taking them off air.

    We’ll do the same with this internet riff raff.

  293. CameronB Brodie says:

    As I’m sure I’ve said before, social prejudiced and exclusion are established and transmitted through vocabularies of exclusion.

    It’s taken me a while to catch up on the Rev.’s joke that has caused so much fuss. In my humble opinion, it may have been in bad taste but there was no homophobic content. It wasn’t even exclusionary and those suggesting it was harmful to the movement, should perhaps do some reading up on equality issues first.

    As for the PhD student? A total fantasist and drama queen, IMHO, though I’m unaware of any nasty comment that might have been directed toward her. Also IMHO, I think this indicates Scotland’s ‘grass-roots Yoon’ movement has popped it’s poop, as far as an ‘intellectual’ rejection of the principles underpinning inalienable human rights is concerned. You never know what warped logic Yoonism will come up with next though, frankly. 🙂

    The social exclusion discourse: ideas and policy change
    http://www.danielbeland.org/pubs/Beland%20Social%20Exclusion%20Discourse%202007%20PDF.pdf

    “Beyond Pragmatic Neoliberalism: From Social Inclusion and Poverty Reduction to Equality and Social Change”
    http://www.unesco.org/fileadmin/MULTIMEDIA/HQ/SHS/pdf/Mexico_Veltmeyer_Notes.pdf

    From Thatcherism to New Labour: Neo-Liberalism, Workfarism, and Labour Market Regulation
    http://www.lancaster.ac.uk/fass/resources/sociology-online-papers/papers/jessop-from-thatcherism-to-new-labour.pdf

    P.S. re. the ideological exclusion of the young from Housing Benefir. Neo-liberal, social Darwinist, neo-eugenic?

  294. Rock says:

    heedtracker,

    “Nana says:
    5 March, 2017 at 9:25 am
    The sunday herald is ____

    It is interesting to speculate why they’ve come after the blogger of WoS like this and they’re fluffing future Baron Fluffie too.

    Should be also interesting hearing what Rock has to say about it all.”

    Rock,

    “It won’t be long now before the more gullible independence supporters realise that the only purpose of The Sunday Herald’s younger sister The National is to milk them.”

    heedtracker,

    “It would be great to hear your views on them, and makes a nice change from your ball achingly boring stuff about one newspaper.”

    Why ask for my views if you don’t want them?

    You have no consistency, no credibility. Just waffle.

    My stuff is not anywhere near “ball achingly boring” as your obsession with the “Graun”.

    Unlike you, I don’t waffle, I say it as it is:

    heedtracker,

    “The National piled in really hard behind the Greens and far lefties like Rise, at last Scots GE. They made great strides forward in ending SNP Scots gov majority. They also put the boot in to Sturgeon too. And why not.

    I don’t want to come over all Rock like, but this is the reality of The National’s politic.,”

  295. CameronB Brodie says:

    Enough already!

    As I’m sure I’ve said before, social prejudiced and exclusion inequality are established and transmitted through vocabularies of exclusion.

  296. Chick McGregor says:

    I am sure I am not the only National subscriber who will be particularly vigilant over the next few months as to how its new partnership with Bella pans out.

  297. Wee Alex says:

    Don’t know about you guys but I get sick fed up with these “experts” telling us there is no opposition in Westminster.

    Anyone with a half a brain knows only full well the SNP fill that role.

    But, hey, they aren’t the Labour Party so it doesn’t count.

    Having said all that, May knows only too well who the threat is, and it ain’t Corbyn.

  298. heedtracker says:

    Rock says:
    6 March, 2017 at 12:16 am
    heedtracker,

    Again, who’s your SNP MP and what do you rate them? MSP too Rock. It would be great to hear your views on them, and makes a nice change from your ball achingly boring stuff about one newspaper.

    Why cant you give us something interesting to think about Rock? You’re clearly a forthright and keen commentator yet your completely fixated on how bad one just UK newspaper out of 40 is.

    Come on Rock, lets see what you got.

    Graun isn’t an obsession, I just used to read it, before it swung into torygraph world but that’s what Brit nationalism does. England will be greatly diminished if they lose control of Scotland and that’s just not going to happen, according to the UK fourth estate, of England.

    G’night Rock.

  299. Smallaxe says:

    Another Deflection!

    Amongst my collection of books, apart from the Koran, the book of Mormon, the life of Gandhi, Dr Martin Luther King Jnr and Charles Darwin’s Theory of Evolution etc. I happen to have at hand The New Testament also. It contains this Parable from the Sermon on the Mount.

    Matthew 5:3–12 during the Sermon on the Mount.[4][5]
    Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 5:3)
    Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted. (5:4)
    Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth. (5:5)
    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be filled. (5:6)
    Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy. (5:7)
    Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God. (5:8)
    Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God. (5:9)
    Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (5:10)
    Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. .5:11-12

    I find it a very interesting Book which I truly hope gives many people comfort and reassurance.

    Peace Always

  300. Meg merrilees says:

    Gosh, Smallaxe – that must have taken a while to type out!!

    A beautiful piece of writing – one of my favourite passages. Thankyou.

    Have you read Khalil Gilbran, especially “The Prophet”?
    Another book that helps to make sense of life.

    Max Ehrmann wrote wonderful prose/ poetry, of course… “The Desiderata” is probably the best known.

    That ability with language is a gift.

  301. yesindyref2 says:

    So the Claire Heuchan “woman hounded off Twitter” has resulted in two at least articles about sexism against women, and then there’s this tweet from the twitter feed of the victim:

    I am back. And I refuse to be intimidated out of public discourse by racists & trolls. Besides, I missed all the brilliant women on my feed.

    “I missed all the brilliant women on my feed.”

    They don’t do irony.

  302. geeo says:

    Brewer asking Ruth Davidson possibly THE most ridiculous interview leading question ever…

    “Do you think the SNP have respected the result of the Edinburgh Agreement” ?

    Giggling and chatting wi his wee chum…what an arsehole.

  303. geeo says:

    Oops…

    That above should read..”Do you think the SNP have respected the result of the referendum and Breached the Edinburgh Agreement”?

  304. artyhetty says:

    Agree with that Chic McGregor@12.28am.
    Couldn’t get the National anywhere Saturday, to see what the Bella deal would be like. Keeping vigilant, if it isn’t flying off the shelves! So many heavy, right wing rags, waste of good paper left on shelves most days though.

    If anyone up late, here’s a wee film, about demonisation of the those up against powers that be.

  305. artyhetty says:

    Oh, sorry that link has done a bad thing, yikes.

  306. Dr Jim says:

    @Smallaxe

    Those who would seek enlightenment in the words of others may only find the others enlightenment

    No offence intended but any or all religious doctrine could just as well have been the Daily Mail or Express of their time, accept the unacceptable with fortitude and grace because after you die of it a mythical superbeing will make everything OK, making it sound like a Daily Record VOW

    Unfortunately it’s man who writes and rewrites this stuff on instructions from other men who over the years change the text and reinterpret their meanings to suit the agenda of the time thereby creating the doubt and disbelief of any truth in the original message

    Comfort derived is a different and personal issue

  307. Thepnr says:

    @Dr Jim

    I seem to remember Smallaxe describing himself as a Humanist so I don’t think he takes the words of the bible too literally.

    Maybe just believes in the ethos of these words? Apologies if I’m out of order in putting words in your mouth Smallaxe.

  308. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Jim – “…accept the unacceptable with fortitude…”

    Reminds me of the stoic Marcus Aurelius and his Meditations. Even without much deference to the divine, a lot of stoicism fails to comfort me while I still have fire in my belly; and many Christian writings have the same effect, even when I try to suspend my atheism in order to sook some goodness or wisdom from it. But some day it’ll work, when I’m down. It’s best for lifting those who have fallen.

  309. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    It might help to read that post above in the voice of Eeyore.

  310. yesindyref2 says:

    To each their own, and that includes religion or lack of it.

  311. Smallaxe says:

    Dr Jim and Thepnr:

    Thank you, both, for your interest and response to my Book post.

    First, Dr Jim, I take no offence whatsoever at your post, on the contrary sir I welcome such informed interest, enjoy it to be honest. Thank you.

    Now, Thepnr, no doubt you are reading also Dr Jim. I am a member of the “SSH” Scottish Society of Humanists, I read many books for the simple reason that I enjoy it. I do not take instruction from them but it can give me a glimpse of many things from our shared human existence and occasionally repel me.

    I do not use books for self-help, that would be pointless, some books I barely skim through others I may pay more attention to.
    I would probably fit the saying of Alexander Poe, A little learning is a dangerous thing Drink deep or taste not the Pierian
    spring There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain and drinking deeply sobers us again.

    I enjoy reading about people of many cultural backgrounds and beliefs especially tribal people from all four of our five continents. Which leads me to my main interest in music of all kinds (nearly) I have music playing more or less constantly in the car and at home on several different mediums.

    I can also as you see be prone to blethering and in the process bore the arse off some people as you have most probably guessed by this juncture. I bid you a good morning Gentlemen and hope that this epistle finds you both well. I look forward to any further communication

    Sincerely, Smallaxe

    Peace Always

  312. Dr Jim says:

    Goodnight sir

    and civil as always thank you

  313. Smallaxe says:

    My apologies, Gentlemen for this late reply but I was otherwise engaged in another matter. Thepnr, no need for you to apologise, my Friend, nothing that you said was out of order.

    Reluctionalist: A.K.A. Eeyore. 🙂

    Peace Always

  314. Smallaxe says:

    Meg merrilees:

    I’m embarrassed now that I have only just noticed your very kind and most welcome post to myself. I am in the habit of reading threads from the bottom up and so most ungentlemanly I put the Gentlemen before the Lady, something that I am not in the habit of doing normally, old fashioned I know but habit is habit even if some frown on it in today’s liberated society.

    I must admit that I have not had occasion to read Khalil Gibran’s book “The Prophet” of which you write, I know him only through some of his poetry which would fit with the tragic situation currently in Syria regarding refugees.

    Max Ehrmann, I, of course, am very familiar with especially “The Desiderata” which you mention in your post although as “a child of the Sixties” I still think of it, as I found it first engraved on a brass plate, bearing the legend “Found in Old St. Paul’s church Baltimore in 1692” anon. and have had a copy hanging on my wall ever since. I would have to say that it is the one, that to myself makes as near as can be, perfect sense.

    I again apologise to your good self, Meg (Margaret or Megan I wonder?) Thank you for you kind words they are very much appreciated I can assure you.

    I bid you good morning and good luck if you have just awoken and found this on your screen. 🙂

    My heart is in my words

    Peace Always

  315. Capella says:

    Was it philosophy night here last night and I missed it!?
    What will the papers run with this week?
    I’ve come to the conclusion when the BBC top story is about America and Trump they’re diverting attention from the black hole that is BREXIT.

  316. Hamish100 says:

    Rock – temper your angst.

    You don’t read any papers but you want us not to buy the National. Strange approach. Go on the National web – saves you paying anything – I subscribe incidentally. Look at the unionists attacking the paper and the independence movement.
    Hardly pro Union so why canvas actively to stop buying it?

  317. Dorothy Devine says:

    Meg Merrilees, love the Prophet and the Richard Harris recording of his work – which pre dates the Keith Michel version. Many a quote used at weddings too!

    However ,my favourite quotations have always been the Native americans with whom I empathised from a very early age , so for you , Smallaxe and all Wingers,

    Cherokee Prayer Blessing

    May the Warm Winds of Heaven
    Blow softly upon your house.
    May the Great Spirit
    Bless all who enter there.
    May your Mocassins
    Make happy tracks
    in many snows,
    and may the Rainbow
    Always touch your shoulder.

  318. Nana says:

    http://dontjointhearmy.co.uk/

    British Government is part of the problem – Adams
    http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/43750

    Experts baffled as robots sent to clean up Fukushima nuclear site keep dying
    http://archive.is/XMevW

    Short video on NHS cuts in England
    https://twitter.com/LabourEoin/status/838417396343926784

  319. Nana says:

    The £750k threat to Andy Wightman and Scottish Democracy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxyhNaYQR7k&feature=youtu.be

  320. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    The mist has cleared and it’s turning into a majestic Monday, links, reading for the use of. Thank you, Nana. Kettle’s on.

    Peace Always

  321. Smallaxe says:

    Dorothy Devine:

    Thank you, Dorothy, for that beautiful prayer chant from our indigenous friends in the America’s.

    Peace Always

  322. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe

    I can clearly now the rain has gone….cue the music

  323. Smallaxe says:

    Nana:

    Your wish is my command!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FscIgtDJFXg

    Peace Always

  324. TheItalianJob says:

    Thanks for the morning links Nana.

    I consult them everyday.

    Great source of good info.

  325. Macart says:

    @Thepnr 11.56

    RE: Name calling

    Or as I like to call it, labelling. Bit of a swiss army tool. Its use or purpose defines both the tool used and the user.

    First rule of any confrontation or conflict: Two pronged, either demonise or belittle your opponent. The intent of the user is all.

    Type a. If you want to perpetrate appalling acts upon an opponent, or wish others to perpetrate those acts. If you simply want people to underwrite those acts with their approval, then first you must dehumanise your opposition. Make it easy for those whose approval you seek to look the other way as you smear, degrade, take benefits, abuse human and civil rights or otherwise practice harm on your intended victims. The most abusive terminologies, vocabulary and derogatory descriptors is the order of the day. Anything that strips the common humanity from your opponent. Take a wild guess at who considers this a go to strategy?

    Type b. The piercing of self importance, belittling the bully, or otherwise deflating of the powerful. The aim is to take away the perceived threat of power or station, invulnerability. To knock them off a self built pedestal by lampooning, satirising or otherwise taking the pure pish. It does NOT however, dehumanise your opponent. Quite the opposite, it makes them appear only too human and fallible. As above, take a wild guess at who prefers this approach?

    Type a. is the preferred option of the bully and the thug and the gangster. Y’know, Westminster’s political class. It has allowed them, for decades, to perpetrate the most unspeakable acts and violate rights both civil and human as required by the government or policy of the day. Anyone wondering how that works, or what the inevitable fallout from overuse of such narrative or strategy looks like? Simply pick up a paper or look out the window.

    Brexit UK with runaway right wing Tory government, rising hate crime, intolerance, isolationism, protectionism, ever widening rich/poor gap and austerity (not yet to the max).

    Type b. resulted in a capable social democratic Holyrood government. A government which follows, (to the letter), the mandate of its population, even against its own natural inclinations. A government willing to hand the power of the state and sovereignty over to its own people.

    Personally, I’m for pure ripping the pish out of bullies any day. 🙂

  326. Socrates MacSporran says:

    The pictures of all those empty seats at the Tory conference got me thinking: how many were there?

    So, I looked at the Armadillo website. The whole building holds 3000, but, according to the website, when set-up for conferences, the ground floor, which seemed to be the only part being used, is set-up to seat 1200.

    Given the hall, at no time seemed to be more than one-fifth occupied – and I am maybe being generous there – that gives a maximum attendance of 240.

    Or, put it this way, there were as-many people at Saturday’s Kilbirnie Ladeside v Auchinleck Talbot junior football match, indeed, probably more, than were at the Tory conference – yet these people are our rulers.

  327. Smallaxe says:

    Macart:

    “Personally, I’m for pure ripping the pish out of bullies any day.” ?

    Me too, also, as well.
    🙂

    Peace Always

  328. Capella says:

    @ Nana – thanks for that link to the Andy Wightman legal threat video. Michael Gray has set out the case. Does anyone know whether this issue has been resolved yet? It certainly highlights the urgent need to reform defamation law in Scotland.

  329. Smallaxe says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:

    “Or, put it this way, there were as-many people at Saturday’s Kilbirnie Ladeside v Auchinleck Talbot junior football match, indeed, probably more, than were at the Tory conference – yet these people are our rulers”

    And I would bet that the spectators at the match had a damn sight more fun.

    Peace Always

  330. Roughian says:

    @Socrates MacSporran
    I did the same exercise to see how many were there and to try a see how much money they lost. The Armadillo won’t be cheap but I couldn’t see what the costs are even for just the ground floor.

  331. Smallaxe says:

    Roughian:

    The cost to their pride and perceived dignity would probably be at a much higher cost than mere money to these people.

    Peace Always

  332. Nana says:

    @TheItalianJob You are most welcome

    @Capella I’m by no means sure how far this case has proceeded, you know how long these things tend to take. Unless of course it’s a supreme court sitting which seems to take but a few weeks, especially if the government is involved and needs to be protected from seperatists!

  333. Breeks says:

    Wow Nana, I mean wow.
    That link to Fukushima would make you weep. Look at the mutated daisies! Nuclear energy? You can keep it. You imagine the Simpsons cartoon and their two headed fish is a parody, but there is nuclear mutation growing for real for all to see.

    Something almost as toxic is the btl comment; the robots are failing because of the radiation, but somebody, Miss Diet, claims it’s the Muslim immigrants camped there stealing the batteries. What a delightful Ray of sunshine Miss Diet must be in real life.

  334. Capella says:

    @ Nana again – you’re on fire today! – That “Don’t Join the Army” Oxford Union speech by a veteran is one powerful video. I noticed Rory the Tory shifting uncomfortably in the front row along with Malcolm Rifkind. Every young person needs to see that.
    http://dontjointhearmy.co.uk/

  335. Lochside says:

    @ Nana….incredible video ‘Don’t join the Army’ at the Oxford Union.Well done linking that!
    I wonder who the veteran is…he was very brave and truthful, unlike Rory the Tory Spy and the loathsome toady Rifkind, and the unidentified pompous git, who looked like an ex-General, sitting together as the opposition.

    I attended a ‘Veterans for YES’ meeting during the REF and found it very moving and educational about the reality of the UK’s military ‘adventures’ and its ties with Big Business. I always felt those ‘vets’ should have been used more by the YES campaign, particularly in order to influence older voters.

  336. Nana says:

    @Lochside

    This is Ben Griffin is a veteran for peace. He was one of the men who threw their medals on the ground outside 10 Downing st.

    A brave man willing to tell the truth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Griffin_(SAS)

  337. yesindyref2 says:

    @Smallaxe
    I read the bible cover to cover when I was young. It was a good book! This helps to understand a lot about life. An ambition I’ll probably never realise is to read the Koran (Quran) cover to cover as well.

  338. Smallaxe says:

    I find such books useful to understand the mental processes of those who live by there rules. Forewarned is forearmed in a social setting when endeavouring to prevent rancour.

    Peace Always

  339. Thepnr says:

    “Personally, I’m for pure ripping the pish out of bullies any day.”

    You do have a way of saying it just right Macart. Loved the post 🙂

  340. rongorongo says:

    Nana says:
    6 March, 2017 at 8:03 am

    http://dontjointhearmy.co.uk/
    – Intersting site – and Ben Griffin’s talk – linked at the bottom – where he talks about his experience in the Paras and SAS is well worth a listen.

  341. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    @ Smallaxe: ‘AKA Eeyore’

    At last! Done and done.



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