The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

Tory resurgence continues

Posted on March 03, 2017 by

Audience during Theresa May’s keynote speech to conference:





Print Friendly, PDF & Email

283 to “Tory resurgence continues”

  1. Smallaxe says:

    New page OK.

    Peace Always

  2. Capella says:

    Brilliant! Wonder how the BBC are going to frame that.

  3. Johnny says:

    Capella @ 11:43am:

    They’ll cry with pride, obviously.

  4. Bob Mack says:

    That reminds me. I have my great aunts funeral on Tuesday next week.

  5. mumsyhugs says:

    Has the one at the back got BO or something?

  6. Swami Backverandah says:

    Judging by all those empty seats, support for the Tories in Scotland appears to be flagging.

  7. Lucifer says:

    lol … really pathetic … Brit Nationalism = good … Scottish nationalism = bad time to get out of this failed union

  8. Anagach says:

    Is that Jill and Effie at the front there with the faded jacks ?

  9. JLT says:

    Well, we’re 2 for 2 when it comes to Unionist leaders preaching at Scottish Conferences.

    Both Jeremy and Theresa have given speeches, and both have talked to virtually empty auditoriums.

    Simply put …they have no influence in Scotland …and would have even less so if groups such as the Orange Order would bugger off.

  10. turnip_ghost says:

    The comment by Jamie on the picture tells us one thing; The Tories are buying into the falsehood by the media that they are resurgent. They are believing their own propaganda.

    It also tells us that the people who voted Tory are obviously too ashamed to be seen in public!

  11. Chipmonkey says:

    There are still delegate passes available for the SNP spring conference at Aberdeen… see some you there, I hope.
    Maybe Nicola will get a warmer welcome.

  12. Capella says:

    Don’t know if it’s Jill and Effie but doesn’t the man four rows back, left of centre(!) look like Len McCluskey?

  13. armygrad24 says:

    If the Unionist position is so strong, why are they not commissioning poll after poll to confirm their rhetoric?

  14. yesindyref2 says:

    And half of them are from The Royalty and Specialist Protection squad in case of crowd trouble.

  15. Neil Cook says:

    Seen more people waiting for a bus !!

  16. Flower of Scotland says:

    Jeez Oh!

    Ha,ha,ha! Made my morning!

    Must watch BBC in Scotland and see how they report this! ???

  17. Was it fancy dress day and they’ve all gone as purple chairs?

  18. Smallaxe says:

    Skinny Malinky Long Legs big Banana Feet went tae the conference and found two hundred Seats.

    Peace Always

  19. Bill Lees says:

    Oh my goodness is this for real, how embarrassing, the BBC will still give it far more air time than the SNP conference.

    It would be interesting to compare the attendee to minutes of air time ratio between the Labour, Tory and the impending SNP conference in Aberdeen.

  20. Proud Cybernat says:

    The Numbers Game…

  21. Di says:

    ah but Brit-nationalism is ok – in fact it’s ‘patriotism’, not like that nasty, divisive Scottish nationalism that is just the same as racism…..

  22. Ian McCubbin says:

    I have a wee felling the next Scottish conference will have more folk for Nicolas speech.
    Visitors passes available no delegate available as deadline for them past.

  23. Dave Hansell says:

    Surprised that many turned out for a plastic Prime Minister.

  24. Davie Roberts says:

    It’s that not Kezia up the back with a wig on?!

  25. call me dave says:

    Jings at a conservative estimate then…thousands!

    Never mind Murdo is telling them the same old story SNP very bad and Indy 2 is very scary.

    Also Sturgeon must stop banging on about it. 🙂

    I see that BBC auntie is keeping the peeks of the crowd closely cropped and all the empty seats are ‘out of shot’ well it saves the embarrassment.

    Off to lunch then Murdo. No porridge for you!

  26. yesindyref2 says:

    The one at the back, by the way, is Kezia Dugdale in disguise.

  27. Donald MacKenzie says:

    Aye, she’ll have had them fair rollicking in the aisles.

    Love The Herald reporting her as saying the SNP is starving the NHS of cash. Eh????? Wee bit of cognitive transference going on there methinks.

  28. Macart says:

    A real sense of occasion.

    Mint imperials sales will have sky rocketed.

    I’m sure Ms May’s speech went down a treat with the few present. 🙂

  29. Proud Cybernat says:

    Riddoch and WATP Tomkins on Radio 2 now.

  30. woosie says:

    About the same number of people who speak to Tresemme at EU meetings!

  31. gus1940 says:

    Maggie May can shove her ‘Precious Union’ where the sun don’t shine – Precious for England but it hasn’t done Scotland much good over the last 310 years.

    Having had a look at the BBC news web site and most of the on-line blats I am somewhat less than surprised that they are shouting May’s speech from the rooftops in predictable unison.

    Brillo all set to have another SNPbad go on Daily Politics.

    Eck was on fire about half an hour ago o the BBC News Ch. I felt sorry for the poor interviewer as she was obviously hopelessly uninformed re Scottish politics.

    It would appear that The Guys and Gals In The Black Hats have now declared war re Indyref2 and judging by their hysterical attacks on Nicola and the prospect of Indyref2 they are bloody terrified.

    Given that they are all coming out with the same message that the Scottish electorate do not want either Indyref2 or Independence one would have thought that they would be clamouring for Indyref2 asap on the basis that according to their stated opinion NO would win again and Independence would be on the slates for decades.

    In that case why are they so desperate to stop Indyref2 in its tracks?

  32. David Mooney says:

    Fluffy sounds as if he’s losing it.

    Being interviewed by Ligger right now on Daily Politic.

  33. peter says:

    What’s twenty feet long, and smells of stale urine ? A conga line, at the Tory’s Scottish conference. lol

  34. msean says:

    Labour will be along any moment now to tell them that they can’t eat a flag.

  35. gus1940 says:


    Surely Pan Drops NOT Mint Imperials.

  36. Swami Backverandah says:

    UK economy tanking as Eurozone and Rest of the World bouyant.

    “Growth of eurozone economic output accelerated to a near six-year high in February of 56.0, up from 54.4 in January, according to the Markit composite PMI.”

    Well played, May.

  37. rongorongo says:

    I’m waiting to see if Phantom Power will come up with a “no to yes” film featuring a former Tory supporter. Despite the “surge” in the direction of the party coming from those abandoning Labour’s sinking ship – there must be some considering thinking about going in the direction of yes. Farmers, business owners and others with a lot to lose by Brexit, have always been among the traditional Conservative supporters – all those “no” voting EU remainers.

    In my experience many Conservative voters are also conservative with a small c – keen to avoid change when possible and to choose the least risk option when they see there is no alternative.

    That must be a difficult journey to make – when “…and Unionist” makes up part of the name of the party you are leaving behind.

  38. galamcennalath says:

    Thing is, those people you see in the audience are not ‘the Tories’. The real deal are the faceless rich donors behind the scenes. They are the paymasters who call the shots.

    Contrast that with an SNP conference where the audience ARE the SNP.

    In IndyRef2 we certainly needed worry about the ‘activists’ we see here. Their leaders are too toxic to appeal to a majority of Scots. What/who we need to worry about is are the rich donors, ‘think tanks’, pressure groups, and professional manipulators for hire. The Brexit ref proves that!

  39. Macart says:

    @gus 1940

    Given the audience?

    Definitely ‘imperials’. 🙂

  40. Proud Cybernat says:

    If that twat on Radio 2 who claimed he voted YES in 2014 (to get out of the EU) but would now vote NO really did vote YES in 2014 I’ll eat my Tam O’Shanter.

    BritNat roaster for sure.


  41. Peter Macbeastie says:

    Is it at all naughty to look at the apparent average age in there and chuckle?

    I do know there are younger Tories. But none of them appear to be buying into the myth of resurgence otherwise they’d probably be in the room with their ageing colleagues.

    Wee protest tomorrow; looking at these pictures I anticipate more people outside than inside.

  42. John Edgar says:

    May’s rant shows she is under pressure. Nothing about EU next steps because there is morning as yet o propose as they have no clue what to publish as proposals as they realise they are in a weak position. They propose, the EU disposes!
    All is an anti Scottish rant, not anti SNP as they claim!
    When she talks about the Union, and no more devolved powers to maintain it, she is really saying the Tories know they are out of it in Scotland. All she claimed for RD was that she us “good” in opposition! Where are the positive Tory proposals for Scotland through Holyrood? None! Message us inly good things come from Westminster and its broad shoulders.
    They would grant more powers if they thought the Tories would ever form a government at Holyrood. Labour are the same. Dog in the manger attitude, nae powers to you cause we will never form a government!
    That’s,yous telt! Now get lost!

  43. galamcennalath says:

    gus1940 says:

    Eck was on fire about half an hour ago o the BBC News Ch.

    There needs to be a system with monitors news channels and get the ‘good stuff’ captured and onto YouTube asap.

    I saw a few tweets saying he was excellent. I now wish I could see it!

  44. Swami Backverandah says:

    yesIndyref2 12.07

    “The one at the back, by the way, is Kezia Dugdale in disguise.”

    and there was me thinking it was Brian Spanner’s poodle.

    Oh, wait.

  45. call me dave says:

    NI count still on but I read this snippet from Auntie’s BBC web site in NI.

    Counting is under way in Northern Ireland’s assembly election, with the first results expected within hours.

    It is the second time in 10 months the electorate has been asked to choose a government.

    The snap election was called after the resignation of former Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness over a botched heating scheme debacle.


    It’s the way they tell em… Funny old world innit and we all thought it was somebody else…

    In the paper a few weeks ago.

    Northern Ireland’s first minister, Arlene Foster, should step down immediately to avoid causing potentially lasting damage to the integrity of the devolved assembly, the leader of another party has said ahead of a no-confidence vote.

    Mike Nesbitt from the Ulster Unionist party (UUP) said Foster’s role in a failed green fuels subsidy scheme that could cost the government £400m meant she had to resign.

    Fund raiser doing well and lots of time to go. 🙂

  46. Breeks says:

    Posted this in the wrong thread…

    Breeks says:
    3 March, 2017 at 12:42 pm
    Utter pish and lies currently on BBC Radio 2.

    Tomkins claiming we knew there would be a referendum on Brexit in 2014.

    SNP bad, SNP obsessed with independence, the usual pish, Sturgeon being unreasonable,…

    Not impressed with Lesley Riddoch either, on the phone naturally, but what we all want apparently is EFTA membership, not the EU membership which we have the clear and unambiguous democratic mandate to defend. Speak for yourself Lesley,… oh yeah, you did.

    The other spokesperson for Indy was a former Liberal who did well in fairness but sounded like he was 100 years old, and interrupted repeatedly but a foaming at the mouth anti SNP former YES voter who doesn’t want Scotland changing the shackles of the UK for the shackles of Europe. Absolute pish straight from the Brexit handbook.

    Not a word or contribution direct from our elected government.

    Usual BBC stitch up and faux impartiality.

  47. wisnaeme says:

    What? Are you sure they didn’t bus some folk in.

  48. geeo says:

    John Curtice has just been on Sky news apologising for releasing false information on Tory popularity in Scotland.

    He has rescinded the latest polling of 27% support for Scottish tories, and had made it clear that they meant 27…people!

  49. Nana says:

    Independence live is streaming from outside the tory conf

  50. geeo says:

    3 March, 2017 at 12:44 pm
    Contender for idiot of the year…

    Claire Fox, from, and i kid you not, The Institute of Ideas…!!

    Here is her reaction to the Angus McNeil interview.

    “It’s galling to keep hearing this, Scotland voted Remain, there is something dis-ingenuos about that.

    The Uk had a referendum, and just on the figures, you’ll know that 62% is still less numerically..emm..errmm.erm…than actually voted..(inaudible)”..

    At this point brillo rode to the rescue by saying..”they voted differently”…

    Unwilling to be rescued…she stumbled on….

    “They voted differently in the sense that it’s a different place, but it doesn’t, thats..thats not a constitutional mandate”.

  51. Lollysmum says:

    peter says:
    3 March, 2017 at 12:20 pm

    ‘What’s twenty feet long, and smells of stale urine ? A conga line, at the Tory’s Scottish conference. lol’

    Oh Peter, you are awful……. but I like you 🙂

  52. Macart says:

    Another excellent Phantom Power release.

  53. John Edgar says:

    Re resurgent conservatism, there seems to be a lot of older generation in the picture! Lot of 70 plussers like me, but many like me have never voted Tory!
    The boys and gals of the old brigade of yoons! With one MP at Westminster who proudly showed a pic of a Trident sub on an Argyle and Bute tourist brochure, makes you wonder what message that sends?
    Perhaps, “you eejits are in the firing line for annihilation. Vote Tory for more!”
    On the other hand, it is a message to ram home that we can do what ever we want! You just have to take it without a member! And the Red Tories are with them on that. The most densely populated part of Scotland is a nuclear target. Ha ha, we are spared that in the Home Counties,suckers!
    May has issued threats in a condescending manner! Labour out for the count! Perpetual Tory governments that are anti Brexit and anti devolution!
    Devolution for Tories is retro devolution, back to Westmibster abd EVEL ENGLUSH VOTES FOR EVERYONE’S LAWS in the hallowed union and the Queen!

  54. Graeme McCormick says:

    Sponsored by the Co-op Funeral Services!

  55. squarego says:

    I suspect the crowd here is swollen by journalists, venue staff, and carers.

  56. JLT says:

    There’s one thing that we should maybe take comfort from. As we can see today, Theresa has spoken (to a near empty hall) and given an endorsement about how wonderful it is to be British and to live in the British State. The BBC cheer, and all the BritNat and OO knuckledraggers clap their hands and rejoice.

    Happily, they are all re-assured!

    And yet, when Theresa finally invokes Article 50 (without any plan at all as to what the future direction will be …except back to a past era of 1890 and Empire), there will be a moment of hesitation. A catch of the breath. A ponderous fear.

    If the EU lay out the financial Bill and what the actual future will be between the EU and UK …and it is not a pleasant one, then sure as night follows day, Theresa will most undoubtedly get into a heated and bitter verbal spat with Europe. It will not end well. The UK will be the prime losers.

    And when that spat takes place …that is when these Unionists who were all cheered and comforted this morning, will feel a creeping dread crawl over them. If Theresa can’t rescue a situation that could potentially begin to spiral out of her control, then these folk (like the daft women wearing Union Jack coats) will feel the fear. How can they counter nationalist arguments? How can they offer the argument of future stability? How can they sneer at what currency Scotland will use when their own beloved Sterling nosedives into the ground? How can they sneer at Scotland wanting to access Europe when they themselves are burning the very bridges to the market that they also desperately need? The image of a panicking, angry, frightened and very unsure British State may be the very thing that makes the people of the Scotland question about the ‘benefits’ of the Union.

    Yep, the people who advocate the British State may cheer and feel comforted at this very moment …but that warm glow will begin to fade as we near the date for the invoking of Article 50.

  57. Proud Cybernat says:

    Brexit whatever the cost…

  58. Arbroath1320 says:


    Looks like Mayhem arrived too late in Glasgow this morning to use the phone box outside her propaganda studios and was forced to sneak into the SECC then. 😀

    If this is a prime example of the “resurgence” of the Xenophobic Tory party in Scotland then I’d hate to see what their “conference” would look like if they were in decline! 😀

  59. Muscleguy says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    Peatworrier has related how he was doing representing Yes at his local polling place a woman came out after voting, hugged him and ecstatically declared that she had vote Yes which meant Scotland was out of the EU.

    Are you calling Peatworrier a liar? Be very careful as he is a lawyer.

    Having done similar duty I can confirm that being hugged is a part of the job. Though I got mine from people going in to vote with thumbs up afterwards.

  60. yesindyref2 says:

    There’s a few ways of countering the unionists “what are you going do to do about the £15 billion defict”.

    First is as some do, say that GERS is just an estimate and a poor one. And that it reflects Scotland in the UK, not independent Scotland.

    Second is as I’ve been doing, point out that according to GERS the onshore deficit has reduced from 17.8% in 2009-10, to 10.1% in 2015-16, and at that rate would be 2.4% by 2022.

    Third is to point out that according to GERS the deficit is 9.5%, but the UK had a higher deficit of 11.1% in 2009-10 and that included all oil revenue. The UK borrowed, so would Scotland.

  61. yesindyref2 says:

    I always have to correct or improve what I post. Ah well:

    Third is to point out that according to GERS the deficit is 9.5%, but the UK had a higher deficit of 11.1% in 2009-10 and that included all oil revenue, while Scotland’s was only 2.1%. The UK borrowed, so would Scotland.

  62. galamcennalath says:

    @me @12:36

    Alec Salmond

  63. TheWasp says:

    Report on ebc national news of Mrs may telling the SNP to stop talking about a referendum all the time and to fix the disaster they have made of public services.

    A bit rich after what the same station was broadcasting about English schools this morning.

    No mention of the mammoth audience either

  64. Brian McGrath says:

    Looks like one really cold winter would end Tory Rule in Scotland let alone a referendum.

    I notice there doesn’t seem to be anyone there under 60.

  65. Proud Cybernat says:

    May said her central goal was to protect “the deep and fundamental strengths” of the union. “Ours is not a marriage of convenience, or a fair-weather friendship, but a true and enduring union, tested in adversity and found to be true.”

    She implied the entire devolution settlement of 1998, which set up the Scottish parliament and Welsh assembly, was now up for renegotiation, risking a row with the Scottish government. (The Guardian)

    Here’s their gameplan, folks:

    NewIndyRef is ‘All or Nothing’

  66. Nana says:

    Fluffy nearly crying, what is he doing with his hands? Clenching and unclenching his fists?

    video here

  67. Big Jock says:

    SNP have no mandate according to their legions of supporters. Oops!

  68. David Caledonia says:

    I wonder if there could possibly be a part/time job there for me, I could call out the bingo numbers, but i don’t think the prize money would be worth winning, in fact my wages of £2.22 an hour would take up all the money collected i think
    A well, back to the joke centre, that’s allways good for a little free heat and a good laugh

  69. yesindyref2 says:

    So Anonynmous put it over the 200% of target. Quite right too!

  70. David Caledonia says:

    The Duke of Cumberland would have been very proud of those two sitting there at the front, wearing the butchers apron and calling themselves scottish….. UNBELIEVABLE !

  71. Desimond says:

    Tonight on BBC News Scotland

    A spokesperson said the reason for empty seats is because the millions of Scotorys are all out working hard to make this nation the bloody fantastic place it is, pardon me for swearing but it really gets my dander up when folk don’t believe there’s any Tories in Scotland.
    I’m Jackie Bird, goodnight!

  72. Shagpile says:

    Independent Scotland to remain in the EEA, in my opinion, is the clever option.

    It would prove the hardest option for NO to campaign against.

    Despite not being at the top-table in the EU alongside the mighty Malta. Scotland would still have a greater say than we have at present.

    Fishing, agriculture no ifs, buts, totally within our control. Truly free to trade with anyone we would wish to.

    EFTA have already said we would be welcome. An option rUK does not have.

  73. Fireproofjim says:

    galamcennalath @1.14
    Thanks for the link to Alec’s interview.
    If you missed it it is a beauty.

  74. call me dave says:


    Thanks for that from Mr Salmond.
    He smashed a few 6’s to the boundary there with some aplomb.

    That’ll raise a few eyebrows and ruffle feathers darn South.

    I rather think it won’t be on shortbread tv tonight. Pity!

  75. HandandShrimp says:

    Her speech must have Jackie Bird perplexed. It has shot off on a totally different tack from the assurances of more powers last night.

    Ever been had Jackie? Or did Struth Haribo throw her toys out of the cot last night and May is just stroking the party faithful’s ruffled feathers?

  76. Greannach says:

    Are the two fashion gurus at the front maybe the carers for some of the more elderly activists?

  77. chris kilby says:

    They look so young too…

  78. chris kilby says:


  79. chris kilby says:

    Ah’ve seen mair people at a hermits’ convention.

  80. mike cassidy says:

    That Salmond interview is a beauty.

    Especially because it shows that the bbc interviewer had absolutely no clue at all about the subject.

    She clearly thought a few bullet points would be enough to shoot him down.

    Back to the BBC trainee journalist school for her.

  81. DerekM says:

    Where are all these tory activists i keep hearing about,this looks like a day trip to the pottery museum lol

    May will be fuming that they never bused in rent a crowd lol

  82. Breeks says:

    @ Shagpile 1:35

    And where is the democratic mandate to pursue EEA as a solution to anything?

    The SNP has a cast iron mandate NOT to exit the EU. That singular fact is THE reason we have another chance of Independence. Why piss it all that democratic legitimacy away, concede everything to Brexit, and from that hamstrung position of conceding defeat, then try to negotiate a new compensatory arrangement which has no democratic mandate, no formal National representation but self recognised “zonal” status, and can’t even secure sovereign assent if it did?

    I despair. I really fecking do.

  83. Arbroath1320 says:

    Oh jeez!

    You guys and gals.

    My partner has just telt me tae stop reading posts for a wee while. She is concerned I will do some serious damage to myself. 😀

  84. Peter says:

    I wonder which one is Spanner.

  85. bobajock says:

    Anyone got tickets for the SNP one?

    I have a child I can sell, and a second hand Jag from the 60’s.

  86. heedtracker says:

    Next Scottish FM speaks soon? Torygraph has a good old tory UK roaster sess to itself,

    “Ruth Davidson warns Nicola Sturgeon: Unionists would win second independence referendum by bigger margin

    That Simon Johnstone’s a big tory dreamer, in fairness. Imagine a Scotland region of greater tory England, already reigning over us, and with future Baroness Ruth Davidson in charge, 2020?

  87. Arbroath1320 says:

    Just seen this from Tartantrums on Twitter. 😀

    Hey @kevinbridges86 – if you nip across to the SEC right now, there’s a great opportunity for an ‘Empty’. #SCC17

  88. FergusMac says:

    I see they come dressed for either the Tory Conference or an Orange Walk, since they belong at both. Cut to video of Ruth Harrison drubbin the Lambeg Drum.

    Mind you, to be fair to the knuckle-draggers, there is usually a bigger crowd at the Walk …

  89. freedo says:

    If you want Accelerator page, contact me

  90. galamcennalath says:

    Today was TMay’s big chance to announce she will have direct talks about delivering Scotland’s wishes regarding single market membership.

    She blew it. She threw down the gauntlet IMO.

    So come in Nicola, lift it!

    My (amateur armchair politician) approach would be to set the date of IndyRef2 for seven-ish months before Brexit with the proviso that it can be cancelled if UK/Eu negotiations are acceptable to the Scottish Parliament. Get the ball rolling.

  91. DerekM says:

    lol i think we need to work on our disguise department

  92. heedtracker says:

    Neo fascist Voice of the North Evening Express pile on. Ruth says ref 2 tory win 10% up on 2014,

    “Speaking on the Good Morning Scotland programme she said: “You’ve got a nationalist Government, hell-bent on breaking us up, they told us it was a once in a generation decision. They didn’t like the result.

    “Before the Scottish election Nicola Sturgeon said if she didn’t move public opinion she would have, even by her own measure, she would have no right to call another one.

    “All we’ve had for nine months is rhetoric after rhetoric after rhetoric. Ramping it up about how she is going to go for that second independence referendum.”

    Well why oh why doesn’t the whole tory millionaire/billionaire funded freak just hold ref 2? is the dumbest query you’ll hear all day, every day until.

  93. Jack Murphy says:

    For anyone who missed Jackie Byrd in the Inner Sanctum of Mrs May’s Tory Cabinet Room in No.10 including Mr Mundell’s flag,here it is,but you’ll need to hurry,the BBC is removing this repeat at 6:30pm tonight !

    Enjoy this direct link to BBC Scotland.

  94. I wonder if those wearing the union flag jackets realise how ridiculous they look.

    But then maybe they are going to attend an orange order parade after May’s speech.

  95. Shagpile says:

    @ Breeks,

    Just in case you missed it mate. The mandate was to be taken out of the EU against our will. The compromise we all know Ms Sturgeon has offered is for Scotland to remain within the EEA as part of the UK.

    Again the former will happen and as for the latter, where is the mandate for that?

    Without a cast iron guarantee from the EU we will remain part of the EU on existing terms… which is hardly likely to be forthcoming, I believe as I posted above is the best option to fight for and make the strongest case for independence.

    The trigger is being taken out of the EU against our will. End of. The point being remaining within the EEA, which is the European free trade area. I believe there is greater support for that option.

    Please forgive the lack of genuflection to your self styled superiority. It’seems just that you don’t seem like the sharpest knife in the box.

    I’ll be voting yes either way. Will you vote no or abstain due to lack of mandate?

  96. Betty Boop says:

    @ Chipmonkey

    See you in Aberdeen 🙂

  97. galamcennalath says:

    Peter McCulloch says:

    I wonder if those wearing the union flag jackets realise how ridiculous they look.

    Someone should ask them for two slices of lorne sausage, four slices of black pudding, and half a kilo of steak mince. 🙂

  98. Fred says:

    Spare a thought for the attendant with the bucket, shovelling sawdust under the seats!

  99. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Someone should ask them for two slices of lorne sausage, four slices of black pudding, and half a kilo of steak mince.”

    And then give the poor loves a wee hug…


  100. Nana says:

    Forget media spin. Read Theresa May’s actual unvarnished words. In Glasgow today she notified Scotland of a specific intention for Westminster to intervene in devolved areas to “improve outcomes” in Scotland. There is no other possible logical analysis of the following long passage:

    Read the rest here

  101. Robert Peffers says:

    @Neil Cook says: 3 March, 2017 at 11:59 am:

    “Seen more people waiting for a bus !!”

    Jings! Ye get mair gadgies nor yon at a Blue Brazil fitba match.

  102. yesindyref2 says:

    The thing about the EEA is that it still requires the consent of the EU-27 for Scotland to join the EEA in our own right. Membership of EFTA does not give membership of the EEA.

    There’s a lot of EU-27 support for Scotland remaining in the EU and that route to the EEA, it might not be the same for the EEA via EFTA.

    Apart from that the SNP have a mandate for another Indy Ref to stay in the EU if the UK exists, they do not have a mandate to join EFTA and that route to the EEA.

    The ScotGov paper talking about EFTA / EEA was as part of the UK, not about Independent Scotland joining EFTA.

  103. DerekM says:

    The most important thing to remember is none if it can happen without independence,there is no point arguing about what we do after.

    Yes it is a dilemma because it is something Scotland will not have faced in a long time a choice.

    Options are always good but keep your eye on the real prize 😉

  104. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    The ScotGov paper talking about EFTA / EEA was as part of the UK

    … and that may have been a comprise proposal put in the table with no real hope that the Tories would agree to it. I believe the SG were serious about it as an offer, however that would have been in the expectation of rejection!

    Another way to look at it is, if the Tories reject the compromise it comes off the table. It can’t return as some last minute Vow2.

    Ensuring a Vow2 is as poor as possible and lacking in credibility is good planning. Indyref2 needs to be a crystal clear Brexit cliff drop, versus full self determination.

  105. DerekM says:

    Give them nothing no white paper,no this is what we will do,keep our cards close to our chest so no sneaky tory can take a peek.

    Last time we handed our strategy on a plate to them and gave them time to pick the places they wanted to fight.

    Not this time!

    independence means independence

  106. galamcennalath says:

    Macart says:

    Oh Jings! Check out the vid.

    Now that is a man under extreme stress. Totally out of his depth and having difficulty coping.

    He needs to calm down or his health will suffer.

  107. galamcennalath says:

    DerekM says:

    independence means independence

    Exactly. Indy should be what the Scottish people make of it for themselves, by themselves.

    That alone should be the theme of IndyRef2. Broad brush, who is best to rule Scotland!? We are!

    Ok, have some answers ready for difficult questions but the main case should be about democratic fundamentals.

  108. Nana says:

    Having to go out. Leaving this here for anyone interested in the NI elections.

  109. stu mac says:


    Normally I am leery of claims about this or that being brilliant but that was the Alex Salmond of old firing on all cylinders. Brilliant. Mind you he wasn’t up against anything much so maybe not really at his best as he didn’t have to be.

  110. Macart says:

    I wonder if the fluffster is even aware that it’s not a matter of want?

    I mean he does realise that it’s a case of action and consequence, right?

    Two referendums, two constitutionally incompatible outcomes. One legally binding, the other being made legally binding as we speak.

    The Scottish electorate made a choice both times. Now for their government and parliament to act, a third choice looks likely to be necessary, but that is entirely down to PM May. Either the choices made by the Scottish electorate will be respected by the unelected PM of the UK, or they won’t.

    The choices of the Scottish electorate as they stand are to retain, if possible, membership of both unions. The FM duly obliged and explored this path, collected the necessary expertise and data, then presented the conclusions as a proposal to Westminster and the PM. Over to you Ms May.

    Her choice, not the Scottish First Ministers, but the UK PM’s will determine whether there is an indyref likely or not.

    If the answer to the proposals is a firm ‘no chance’ to the Scottish electorate? Then it will be for the Scottish electorate to decide whether they like that answer from PM May or not. The FM in this instance is merely a facilitator, a conduit for the will of the electorate. THAT is the reality. PM May isn’t speaking to FM Sturgeon, she’s speaking to you, the public.

    She’s not slapping down, kicking, or battering the FM regardless of what the frothing windae lickers of the UK meeja would have you believe. She’s slapping down, kicking and battering you and your choices, your decisions.

    Just a bit of perspective.

  111. Brian MacLeod says:

    The one at the back is the only Scottish Tory.

    Been kept away from the others in case she steals sometime, breaks it, or starts a fight…

    (But they have to let her in because she’s registered for 200,000 postal votes)

  112. Richardinho says:

    The hard core Tory support, and May still doesn’t get a standing ovation from the entire crowd!

  113. Free Scotland says:

    @Capella at 11:54

    Hey, Capella, I think you’re right: that is Len McCluskey, 3 rows behind the union-jacketed clowns.

  114. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    Just so so Funny – Yeah!

    It makes the Labour conference look busy in comparison. Even the Lib-Dem may be able to beat that.

    You think they could have bussed up some folk from London to pad out the seating Perhaps the Southern Tories are just giving up on Scotland completely.

    I wonder how Ruthy is going to become First Minister with all that backing.

    Lol Lol Lol.

  115. Proud Cybernat says:

    Mayhem and Fluffster arguing that they will negotiate to keep Scotland in the Single Market along with the UK.

    REALITY CHECK MAYHEM – it simply is NOT IN YOUR GIFT to deliver that or even promise it. Any UK access post-Brexit to the Single Market will be the decision of the other 27 EU countries and, thus far, it does not look at all good that they will allow the UK access to ANYTHING. Not in the remote.

    Scotland–your BEST chance is to go it alone. The EU will welcome an indy Scotland with open arms. No question.

  116. Smallaxe says:


    I’ve just seen your post, will do, Thanks again.

    Peace Always

  117. This will be the Ms Davidson’s resurgent Scottish Tories that the BBC were talking about on the radio this morning? Mmmm.

  118. DerekM says:

    Oh these idiots are so far out their depth its bewildering.

    Have you ever wondered who the UK owes 1.9 trillion,well you see there was this group of countries and they created a union and a new currency,to go with this currency they created a bank which would lend money to the countries in the union.

    Anybody else think the troika might want their money back?

  119. Shagpile says:

    @ yesindyref2,

    You’re not quite right are you?

    Never thought I’d see the day a yeser would scaremonger on indyref 2.

    Without clarity from the EU, and they will not as Scotland is not the member state. We Scots will be asked, once again, to cast our vote on an uncertainty the NO side will seek to maximise.

    EFTA membership has been assured, and with that EEA membership.

    We could later on hold a referendum on full EU membership.

    Six and half a dozen which way full EU membership is achieved, if that is the will of Scots.

    Personally it makes little difference to me as the single market and access to it is the point at the end of the day.

  120. Keith B says:

    Look at their average age…. that’s a small crowd but a large proportion of senior citizens, they will eventually be outnumbered.

  121. Breeks says:

    Shagpile says:
    3 March, 2017 at 2:17 pm
    @ Breeks,

    Just in case you missed it mate. The mandate was to be taken out of the EU against our will. The compromise we all know Ms Sturgeon has offered is for Scotland to remain within the EEA as part of the UK.

    Again the former will happen and as for the latter, where is the mandate for that?

    Without a cast iron guarantee from the EU we will remain part of the EU on existing terms… which is hardly likely to be forthcoming, I believe as I posted above is the best option to fight for and make the strongest case for independence.”….

    First, I’m not your mate.

    2nd, maybe you have caved in to being taken out of Europe, but I certainly haven’t.

    3rd, I don’t require any guarantee from Europe to respect my European citizenship when there is no legal mechanism at the EU’s disposal for removing said citizenship from me against my will.

    And 4th, if the SNP has indeed conceded these points already, and is already playing for a no-score draw even before kick off, then yes indeed, they do not represent my position in any way and I would very much caution them against counting on my vote.

    Between Rock and Mr Peffers, maybe there lies the truth; it is the people of Scotland, not the SNP, who should contest the legitimacy of Scottish sovereignty by seeking a judicial review at the Court of Session. Once we have made our sovereignty secure, it is a short step to have it internationally recognised and respected, and we can perhaps trust the SNP to run a caretaker administration pending the result of a constitutional plebiscite to determine the shape of a sovereign Scotland’s legally recognised constitutional future.

  122. h franks says:

    Ha ha that woman at the back is auld maggie thatcher,and wot about those two wae the jackets,they look actual ridiculous,one wouldn’t even where those ragsto a fancy dress party lol!

  123. yesindyref2 says:

    Actalaly I am completely right. Membership of EFTA does not guarantee or require membership of the EEA. Of the 4 EFTA members, Switzerland is NOT a member of the EEA.

    To join the EEA needs, as I said, the consent of the EU-27 (and the agreement of the EFTA states).

    Sorry to trump your wiki entry, this comes from EFTA itself:

  124. Andy-B says:

    Well I’m sure they all went to the toilet at the same time, and that explains the empty seats.

    However it’s heartwarming to see Theresa May’s sister and Ruth Davidson’s sister show support in their Union Jack suits.

  125. yesindyref2 says:

    Sorry, I forgot to insert the relevant part:

    According to Article 128 of the EEA Agreement, “any European State becoming a member of the Community shall, and the Swiss Confederation or any European State becoming a member of EFTA may, apply to become a party to this Agreement. It shall address its application to the EEA Council.”

    The EEA Council takes political decisions leading to the amendment of the EEA Agreement, including the possible enlargement of the EEA. Decisions by the EEA Council are taken by consensus between the EU on the one hand and the three EEA EFTA States – Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway – on the other.

    “apply” + “concensus”.

  126. Shagpile says:

    @ Breeks,

    Good luck with that 😉

    @ indyref2,

    Guess we’d better just give up on independence because we are just too wee, poor and stupid right enough.

  127. Shagpile says:

    Oh and Breeks, did you really think I wanted to be your Mate?

    No end to your delusions then 😉

  128. yesindyref2 says:

    Don;t be daft. It’s the reality, the facts, the truth. I said nothing about whether an application to EFTA would be successful, or whether through EFTA an application to the EEA would be successful.

    Personally I think if we’re a YES in autumn 2018 we’ll stay in the EU on an observer status while our actual application wends its way through on an expedited basis as we already meet the acquis, and meet most of the other conditions required, bar central bank and currency – netiher of which are hard to do.

  129. Shagpile says:

    @ Breeks,

    Do you think I wanted to be your mate?

    No end to your delusions.

  130. yesindyref2 says:

    As a serious suggestion, it will be interesting to see if the hall is filled tomorrow, in which case perhaps Conservative supporters in Scotland stayed away from being seen with May and her toxic Westminster Tories.

  131. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Do you think I wanted to be your mate?

    No end to your delusions.”

    Now that’s just downright thrawn!

  132. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Well, I’m with Breeks on this one. The EUref result was to stay in, no more no less. As galamcennalath reminds us, the EEA/EFTA thing was a compromise proposal put forward by the SG to demonstrate, despite all the Tory rhetoric, that it is not hell-bent on “separation” at all costs. If rejected, it serves to demonstrate unequivocally that all the BritNats are interested in is a unitary UK that aims to snuff Scotland out as even a vaguely-autonomous entity.

    But if the EEA/EFTA compromise fails, it’s full-bore for indy as the fangs of Brexit start to draw blood. Having the support of the EU behind us will help, not hinder.

    And the campaign has to be “broad-brush, who’s best in charge?”. Steady as she goes for now, the least upheaval possible in very fluid circumstances, and after the dust has settled, we can get down to working out our future for ourselves.

    The only thing I disagree with galamcennalath is his proviso for cancellation. As Prof. Devine says, you can’t march people up to the top of the hill then down again without losing credibility. (Think El Gordo.)

    There is always some possibility that perfidious Albion will do a last-minute Brexit-lite deal to save the City of London, or even that Brexit runs aground completely as cold reality finally dawns, but we’re still better out of all of that, whatever.

    We can then choose our own way of facing up to EU membership and everything else besides, in our own way, in our own time. What’s not to like?

  133. Fireproofjim says:

    I reckon no more than 250 at that conference, and that for the Tory Prime Minister!!
    Some resurgence. There will be more at the coffee bar queue in two weeks in Aberdeen.

  134. Macart @2.46
    Sam, you may recall my bit of whimsy over on WGD on Wednesday, forecasting the usual SNP BAD tropes and musing that we should play SNP BAD Bingo, just to keep us awake.
    Day 1, and I’ve nearly got a full house: I’m waiting for Mundell to bring up the £15 billion deficit.
    May’s speech was unbelievably bad.
    Scotland is shite and it’s all that Nicola Sturgeon’s fault.
    England is in melt down. England’s Health Service is in serious diffs, ripe for privatisation, Police cuts by 27% over the last 4 years, 20,000 police officers sacked, so some paedophiles will not be punished, hard Brexit will actually cost more than continuing in the EU, May and Davidson abandoning the day job because they are fixated with the constitution, and getting the feck out of Europe, but will cease to trade with Scotland, and so on.
    Alex Salmond ripped the lungs out of some BBC 24 News lass who fired a series of smirking patronising superior questions at him.
    ‘Nicola Sturgeon is ‘scared’ to call another Referendum.’
    Idiot woman mouthing a Yoon ‘line to take’ propaganda rant.
    Jackie Baillie sitting in the Great Presence letting May spout the same old guff, without challenge.
    Well done, lass, your job’s secure at the Beeb.
    Is there any truth in the rumour that Hertz and Europcar were hiring out Zimmers by the day with a discount for the whole week end?
    The Sterodent stall, a major sponsor (?) was doing great business, and the restaurant was offering steak and chips, with an added supplement to cover the waitress cutting up the customer’s meat for them.
    Who the feck hired the hall?
    What a massive Presentational blunder.
    Was it Ruth? Is she so fixated with NS that she ordered them to hire the same venue as the SNP expecting a 12,000 sell out?
    There were maybe 500 or 600 hundred, plus a couple hundred more Dead Tree Scrollers, broadcasters and 150 MI6 Homeland Security bods.
    Mundell has completely lost it. On Neil’s wee programme he was ranting and raving. The archetype Loon Yoon.
    He repeated the mantra which I forecast in my post,o nWednesday, and Treeza ra Beeza regurgitated the could/should nonsense in her Bird Spot. (Not a question of could but should there be a second Ref.)
    They refuse to threaten that WM would block Indyref 2. That way would be political suicide.
    As Salmond observed, nobody voted for May as PM.
    And her speech shows why she was shuffled into the job. Nobody else wanted it.
    Loving the whole farce.
    The Dim but Nice Listory Boy9Jaimie Green?) with the beard and the Ranjurs tie must have made the Union Jack girls feel as they were at an OO rally.
    I’d hold off on Indyref 2 for another 18 months and let Nature take its course.
    What a disaster. Just when we thought nothing could top Khan’s racist nonsense.

  135. Graf Midgehunter says:

    It’s a taxidermists paradise and that’s the waiting room.. 🙂

  136. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Why do you think that the Tory and quasi-Tory Blue-Red BritNats are so anxious to order us that we don’t want another indyref now?

    Remember the wise adage: what your opponents are most anxious to avoid is the very thing that gives you strength.

    As for the Tory line that we must respect the result of 2014, the reposte is very easy:

    “You didn’t respect the result of 2014 first, with your cynical reneging of the Vow!”

  137. yesindyref2 says:


  138. David says:

    I wandered lonely as a Tory
    That floats on high o’er Brexit’s ills,
    When all at once I saw a crowd,
    A host, of purple seats, unfilled.

  139. Proud Cybernat says:

    As for the Tory line that we must respect the result of 2014, the reposte is very easy:

    “You didn’t respect the result of 2014 first, with your cynical reneging of the Vow!”

    Nor did they respect the RULES of the campaign, breaking purdah at will, making new last-minte ‘offers’.

    But let them be under NO ILLUSION. Come NewIndyRef, should they DISRESPECT THE RULES AGAIN, then they can be absolutely CERTAIN that IndyRef 3 will be upon them toot sweet!


    I’m up at five. Becoming more difficult to find others to hug. Not many folks in my work admitting they’re NO voters. Hmmm… (Some still wanted a hug though – funny old world).

  140. galamcennalath says:

    Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Tory line that we must respect the result of 2014

    Everyone seems to have respected it EXCEPT the Tories!

    If they had left things as ‘No means No’ (and nothing else) in the run up to IndyRef1, then they would have lost. So they changed their pitch to ‘No means lots of promises and guarantees’, and accordingly they won.

    Having won, they swapped it all to ‘No means EVEL, DevoFA and Brexit’.

    Respect!? Tories have got no comprehension what that means.

  141. galamcennalath says:

    We should remember that one year ago Swinney fought off a £7 billion “cash grab” by the Treasury during negotiations for the fiscal framework, post-Smith.

    They capitulated at the last moment.

    The Tories will hold a grudge that Scotland got ‘one up’, as they would see it.

    No doubt they would interpret agreeing to the SG compromise on the single market as backing down again. Tories can be a stubborn lot.

  142. Meindevon says:

    Just had a look at Scottish Tory Twitter photos and the hall is packed…have they been doctoring their photos? No they wouldn’t would they?

  143. Macart says:

    @Jack Collatin

    Ayup! They are a bit on the predictable side Jack. 😀

    Take it you caught Mundell’s interview with oor Andra? Thought the poor chap was having some form of uncontrollable fit.

    Either way what comes across most from conference so far is the smell of fear and desperation. Pretty much why they’re attempting to conflate the likelihood of an indyref with ‘what Sturgeon wants’. They are desperately trying to avoid confronting the Scottish electorate directly and of course that is the truth of the matter.

    The Conservatives are wanting to overrule the specific will and mandate of the Scottish voting public as expressed in not one, but two referendums. They have absolutely zero redeeming qualities, but most specifically they have neither the honesty or courage to own responsibility for the consequences of their own action.

    And there will of necessity by legal and logical consequences for those actions. As I said above, it’s not a matter of want. It’s a matter of process. The only person who has a choice in any of this is PM May.

    It’s a pickle for her right enough. 😉

  144. Robert Peffers says:

    Shagpile says:
    3 March, 2017 at 2:17 pm

    ” … Without a cast iron guarantee from the EU we will remain part of the EU on existing terms… which is hardly likely to be forthcoming … “

    Don’t talk pish, Shagpile.

    Fact 1 :- Each and every person who is mainly resident in Scotland and is registered to vote in Scottish elections is already a citizen of the EU.

    Fact 2 :- The people of Scotland have been EU citizens since ever there was an EU.

    Fact 3 :- The EU has no rules, laws, or other legal mechanisms, to expel any EU citizen against that EU citizen’s will.

    Fact 4 :- The EU has no rules, laws, or other legal mechanisms, to expel any EU Member State against that EU Member States democratic will.

    Which is why they will not even discus Brexit with the de facto Parliament of England until there has been a request, (an Article 50), request formally submitted to the EU via the EU’s Civil Service, (i.e. “The EC”).

    Fact 5 : – What all that means in practice is that the entire raison d’être of the EU is to unify, and to equalise, both the rights of EU citizenship and of all EU State’s membership.

    If the EU were to throw out either a citizen or a member state against their will then the EU would have lost all credibility to be a European Union.

    If they did throw out the citizens of Scotland against their will then neither existing Member States nor EU member citizens could legally trust the EU parliament ever again.

    It is one of the EU’s laws that any EU Citizen who, anywhere in the World, finds themselves in trouble with either an EU or Non-EU government, Monarchy or Dictatorship has the legal right to ask for shelter or aid from any EU Member state’s Embassy.

    The EU simply cannot throw out a member State or citizen as it is against EU law to do so. The trouble is that the UK is not legally a unified country.

    The United Kingdom is exactly what its title describes it as. It is not now, and it never has been, a single Unified Country. In fact it is being run at present as four distinct countries but is in fact a bipartite union of Kingdoms.

    It is NOT, “The United Countries Of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”, but is, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”, and, in 1707, there were only two existing kingdoms.

    The birth Certificate that records The United Kingdom’s birth has only the signatures of these two Kingdoms of Scotland & England. Neither the former Kingdom of Ireland nor the Principality of Wales were required to sign the Treaty because they were/are annexed parts of the Kingdom of England long before 1707.

    Thus all the EU parliament needs do is point out to Westminster that as the Kingdom of Scotland voted to remain in the EU then the EU cannot legally throw The Kingdom of Scotland out but as the Kingdom of England democratically voted to leave, (and will then have formally requested to do so with an Article 50 request), then to stick by EU rules the Kingdom of Scotland remains and the Kingdom of England should be careful as they leave that the EU door does not bruise their, rather prominent, derrière.

  145. Ken500 says:

    Not worth the journey. MSM not changing the camera angle.

    NI elections not going well for the Unionists. Reunification

    Scottish Independent

    May’s worse nightmare. The Tories have broken the Union

  146. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Proud Cybernat, galamcennalath,

    Not to forget Jakey’s marital analogue about how the about-to-leave spouse can expect super-improved treatment if they decide to stay after all.

    I don’t understand how any student of human behaviour (such as a novelist) who sincerely used that hoary old plotline can possibly still believe it now, yet to her great discredit she has never admitted (in public at least) that the real situation is an abusive relationship that hasn’t improved in the least. On the contrary, the abuser has become ever more irrational and threatening instead.

    But I would hug her too (metaphorically speaking, natch!), if she still had the good grace to recognise the truth.

  147. Liz g says:

    She came to this country and complained about the school’s and the health services!!!!
    That she needs to take control to ensure kid’s and old people are looked after here as they are down in her country.

    Has no one told her we get their news?
    Em …. What’s that phrase again…. No Thanks…

    Won’t even mention that she has no business lecturing us about the leader we vote for unless and until she Wins a vote herself,the Americans might put up with her…But they don’t get the London news.

  148. Macart says:

    Been following the conference proceedings sporadically and playing catch up by dropping in on Wings twitter.

    Dear God! Someone send on those lads from the Full Monty.

    Maybe perk things up a bit. 🙂

  149. galamcennalath says:

    Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Jakey … I would hug her too, if she still had the good grace to recognise the truth.

    In 2014 she said …

    “I just hope with all my heart that we never have cause to look back and feel that we made a historically bad mistake.”

    … in her heart, does she now have cause to look back and accept we made a historically DISASTROUS mistake?

  150. frogesque says:

    Those conf pics are the only reason I can think of for ending free prescriptions

  151. gordoz says:

    Seriously Rev – as anyone from the place will tell you

    Its abbreviated to Norn Irn not Norn Irelin ??

    Tsk! Tsk!

    History woman will be all over this !

  152. CameronB Brodie says:

    The over-abundance of vacant space suggests poor judgement and inefficiency in decision-making. A true expression of conservative values there, not.

    British nationalism, eh? Probably unique in being (neo)liberal, culturally and ethnically chauvinistic and authoritarian in nature, yet managing not to be nationalistic and racist. IMHO, that’s certainly a mystery in the cognition of space and time, frankly.

    Anyhoo, here’s some black metal to explain it all. Or is it the other one?

    Kenny and the Night Riders – Andromeda

    P.S. anyone else getting the sense that ruthless Ruth Harrison is little more than a cartoon character? If it wasn’t for the BBC pimping her, I’m sure more would see the grotesque, snarling caricature she presents. As for her boss? I’d best not go there.

  153. Welsh Sion says:

    Ronnie C: And in a packed Conference Hall tonight ….

  154. Capella says:

    The white haired chap at the back must be the Grim Reaper.

  155. scotspine says:

    BBC Radio Scotland’s report from the borders gets a snippet from a posh lady in the English side. “Well, Im half SCOTCH and quite frankly, how any country would want to get divorced from England is beyond belief”

    Eat yer cereal Scotch people.

    Lol. Finger on the pulse (quite frankly)

  156. Glamaig says:

    I thought it looked like one of the delegates had passed away. Maybe bored to death.

  157. Meindevon says:

    Just had a look at ScotsTory Twitter and somehow, with some very clever camera angles, they’ve managed to make the hall look pretty full.

    At a glance you would never suspect it was only half the hall.

    Unbelievably it looks like they actually got more of an attendance than SLab did at theirs. That’s scary. Never thought we’d see that day.

  158. Macart, Mundell was quite simply alarming on Neil’s show. I’d venture that he needs help. It’s all getting just a little too much for him.
    They all repeat the mantra: ‘The Scottish people don’t want a second Referendum.’
    They know fine well that they are lying, but hope that by repetition the lie will stick.
    Can’t wait for Dave Ruthison’s Rally the Troops speech.
    Will the , ahem, more senior delegates last the pace?
    My Everlovin’ informs me that the Lib Dems were enquiring about hiring my manshed for their Spring Break? Rumble, Bumble, Fumble, Wery ‘Umble, and Rennie. Can’t wait for that one.
    What the past two weeks has highlighted is how really amateurish the Scottish Yoons are.
    Somebody should do a word count to tally the number of times ‘SNP’ has been mentioned at Yoon Get Togethers.

  159. galamcennalath says:

    Herald …
    ” THERESA May has set herself on a collision course with Nicola Sturgeon by indicating she will rewrite the devolution settlement after Brexit.”

    That doesn’t strike me as a very well though through position to win IndyRef2.

    Does she mean, like, some sort of anti-Vow?

  160. Robert J. Sutherland says:


    The one useful thing about a crisis, whether personal or social-political, is that it exposes us as we truly are.

    Judging by those Phantom Power videos, there are many who have passed this latest test with honour, sometimes, one imagines, despite their social bindings. So maybe there’s hope even for Jakey yet (he says, whistling a happy tune)…

  161. Glamaig says:

    @ Meindevon 5:12 pm

    The sound of the applause to Teresas speech certainly seems to tie in better with the more empty photos.

  162. Glamaig says:

    O/T I’m hearing frequent mentions of possible Kremlin interference in the US elections, but nothing about that Cambridge Analytica crew.

  163. Free Scotland says:

    Initially thought that was a real human at the back, but thinking now it might be a bust of Ted Heath.

  164. chris kilby says:

    Some nice big close-ups and low angles on the BBC to disguise the fact the hall was half-empty After mocking the small group of protestors outside too.


  165. Roughian says:

    Is the EBC camera man at the conference
    only 3feet tall?

  166. Macart says:

    Big screen in that hall.

    ‘NO TO A SECOND REFERENDUM’ in mahoosive letters.

    I’m seeing a pattern forming… 😉

  167. galamcennalath says:

    Glamaig says:

    I’m hearing frequent mentions of possible Kremlin interference in the US elections, but nothing about that Cambridge Analytica crew.

    Proves the bad guys can be the good guys when doing good things for the bad guys. 😉

    Cambridge Analytica may have swung the Leave vote. Allegedly the Electoral Commission have had not submissions from for the costs. They didn’t do it for nothing when they were supposed to be charging Trump $5m a month! So allegedly there has been some skullduggery.

    I expect CA or similar to be deployed in IndyRef2.

  168. heedtracker says:

    Tory masters lay down the law for their Scotland region and
    MI6 have a new recruitment drive, need a new kind of spook, jocks need not apply, is my low points of TGIF news day.

    MI6 takes to silver screen to recruit unlikely spies
    By Paul Adams
    BBC News
    2 hours ago
    From the section UK

    The advert will run for a month, in cinemas in London, the West Midlands and north west England, partly reflecting the sort of urban areas recruiters look to but also the fact that MI6 can’t afford a nationwide release.

    And will it be shown in cinemas where Bond or similar spy capers are showing?
    Emphatically not.”

    Spooks in Scotland have their special tasks for the sweaties.

  169. K1 says:

    Aye Glamaig watching it closely masel, bound to come out at some point though…they got Flynn now Sessions, there’s more to come nae doot.

  170. Liz g says:

    Galamcennalath @ 5.57
    Did say a few months back,when all this new act of union stuff started to drip into the conversation, that I was worried that the next referendum would be a vote No for all new shiny arrangements to the Union it’s self this time.

    Don’t think they have decided yet what to call it,and will struggle with a name or a sound bite… Mainly because we are on the ball with what the actual union arrangements were and what the devolution arrangements are.
    But also because they can’t be seen to be accommodating Scotland in any way.

    But if they manage a no vote this time, I suspect we will be locked in to a new set of terms and conditions,in the name of preventing uncertainty…..With a dash of National Security mixed in somewhere!
    An arrangement that has been getting planned,since 2014, I think probably in preparation for the next Unionist administration in Holyrood.
    I don’t think they expected to have to deal with Scotland again so soon,and, certainly not while most still remember the vow and all the other promises.
    I think their main focus has to be preventing the referendum until there is no international oversight and it is seen as an internal matter…..Then we will really struggle to get out.
    We really need to hold this vote before Brexit,and as others have said look at having International observers.
    I can’t see how Westminster can negotiate with the EU when it doesn’t even know if Scotland and her resources are included.
    A referendum after Brexit negotiation doesn’t make any sense.
    They would have to start all over again if Scotland didn’t want the deal.
    The EU aren’t likely to put up with that.
    Do they think they can pull the we don’t plan for separation with the EU negotiators.
    The only logical conclusion is that they plan to keep Scotland’s resources and don’t see any risk to them not being part of the best ever deal in the universe.
    Therefore a referendum Before Brexit is essential.

  171. Tinto Chiel says:

    Have just heard Pravdasound4 describe the audience for Praying Mantis May’s rant as “Conservative activists”.


    I’ve seen more activity in a Petri dish.

    And having seen Nana’s clip of The Fluffster/Magnificent Husk, I have to say I think he is on the verge of complete mental disintegration, and that under the chamois treatment from Paisley’s Greatest, Oor Andra.

    As MR P. would say, “Sheesh!”

  172. CameronB Brodie says:


    Without a cast iron guarantee from the EU we will remain part of the EU on existing terms… which is hardly likely to be forthcoming, I believe as I posted above is the best option to fight for and make the strongest case for independence.

    Yes, extremely unlikely as Scotland currently has no formal relationship with the EU, as a nation state.

    The EU will be falling over themselves to retain Scotland as a member nation. We’ve been in the club for nearly all of my life (since the EEC), though we have no formal membership as a nation state. Regardless of that, we’re already contributing to EU budgets and complying with EU law. The EU will only comment on Scotland’s constitutional arrangements, once Article 50 has been activated.

    IMHO, seeking to leave both the UK and the EU simultaneously, is folly on the scale of Hitler’s attack on Russia.

  173. Capella says:

    On No News R Scotland tonight:
    18:30 – 22:00 – fitba

    Of course on Saturday:
    12:00 – 19:00 – fitba

    Then on Sunday:
    12:00 – 17:00 – fitba – what! only 5 hours?

    Imagine that amount of time devoted to almost any other topic? Does anyone actually listen to this? I would have thought fitba fans are glued to their gigantic flat screen TVs watching SKY Sport.

    When is Donalda going to provide some programming? Reporting perhaps on Party conferences or NI elections, or even some drama or what’s on off the pitch.

    Sorry – rant over.

  174. Glamaig says:

    Fascinating watching the NI results unfold (how sad is that). Never watched STV results before. Sinn Fein well ahead in seats so far.

  175. Nana says:

    Check out the fringe event at the tory old folks get together.

    ‘Act as if we own the place’

  176. Thepnr says:

    Just for the record I’d take Independence with or without membership of the EU, EFTA or EEA.

    I’m 110% in favour of retaining my EU citizenship but without Independence then it’s abundantly clear that when the UK leaves the EU so too will my citizenship.

    So, I’m pragmatic about it, without some clarity on Scotland’s status with the rest of Europe BEFORE the next referendum I think our chances of winning will be reduced. Not lost but reduced.

    I only want the best possible chance of winning and if the Scottish government can get clarity on an EEA/EFTA deal then that will do for me. The important differences between the EEA and the EU is that their is no requirement at all to join the Euro, a simple majority of EU members is all that is required in a vote for membership not a unanimous vote of all 27 members.

    This would put paid to the spin that “Spain would veto your membership”. which we know is bullshit but does everyone? No they flipping well don’t and lies like the Euro and Spain would be forced down their throats.

    Then there are the 13% of Yes voters that have apparently changed their mind because they want out of the EU compared to the 11% of No voters who have swung the other.

    Where might they swing with a middle of the road deal that kept Scotland in the EU single market and free movement of people but free to do our own trade deals with other countries and have full power over agriculture and fisheries?

    I really don’t know the answer to the questions that arise from this and will trust the Scottish Government to do the best thing based on the information and advice they have from better people than me and information that I will never see.

    Unless full EU membership is guaranteed by ALL 27 members prior to a referendum we are in limbo but if an EEA/EFTA deal was on offer BEFORE the next referendum I’d grab it with both hands.

    One thing I would never do is vote No or not vote at all in the next referendum just because I preferred one or the other.

    I will vote YES else it’s a fact there will be NO options at all!

  177. Fran says:

    Now Mayhem has laid bare her plans for the devolved administrations I have started giving out the wee black books that I have held onto for the right time to start targeting soft nos.

    A timely reminder now to people of the deception that WM spreads and their plans to shut this country down.

    No steel, no ship yards, no oil, no agriculture, no fisheries, no whiskey, no tax offices, no Scots Law, no Scotland, London shall swallow it all like the beast it is.

  178. heedtracker says:

    Wrong thread oops. But could just keep saying this til independence day. Cant imagine many in Pacific Quay sticking around after that, the janny maybe.

    heedtracker says:
    3 March, 2017 at 7:37 pm
    Colossal UKOK tory BBC led media hysterics all day, luckily missed most of it, bar future Lord Fluffie’s strange display at lunchtime with the Liggger, so what other news is their for the Scotland region?

    Scottish sugar consumption leads to cancer warning
    6 hours ago

    From the Scotland section 61 comments too.

    Why BBC Scotland gimps, you spoil us.

    It still doesn’t explain what actually came out of future Baron Fluffster’s mouth this lunchtime, no matter how often you watch it.

  179. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 21:30:

    Unless full EU membership is guaranteed by ALL 27 members prior to a referendum we are in limbo but if an EEA/EFTA deal was on offer BEFORE the next referendum I’d grab it with both hands.

    Because of the diplomatic niceties, we might not get a public cast-iron assurance, just plenty of signs of support and maybe even an insistence on our separate presence at the Brexit talks. But that’s OK. It’s enough that the EEA/EFTA option remains as a backstop if all else fails. Which neutralises the “Spanish veto” ploy anyway. But I would aim high, and go to retain full EU membership and all the consequent advantages. There’s little to lose by going for the max rather than “retreating even before a shot’s been fired”.

    What we must avoid is to descend to the least-common denominator to merely pander to a few “little Scotlanders”. That would risk falling between two stools, with no assurance that EEA/EFTA would appeal to them any more than full EU.

    I sometimes think that Sadiq Khan’s slander of the indy movement was more carefully calibrated than first met the eye. A deliberate attempt to put a wedge into the indy movement, get a strong “we won’t tolerate racism” reaction intended to alienate the fabled “Yes-Leavers”. The “Yes-Leaver” trope is pushed hard by the BBC, after all.

    You are correct, though, whatever our individual preferences and the available outcome, we can’t afford to get too precious about it. It must still be “yes” whatever.

    I simply prefer to keep all my options as open as possible about everything until we can have our own debates and make our own decisions without interference from anyone else.

  180. heedtracker says:

    Important Scottish issues via Mayhem today, from Lesley Riddoch, then lets go out:D

    After promising that powers returning from Europe would be devolved, it now looks as if control over agricultural and fishing subsidies will stay at Westminster when they return from Europe. Yet when SNP politicians seek clarification – as the SNP’s Westminster leader, Angus Robertson, did in prime minister’s questions this week – they are dismissed like stupid, unruly children.”

    Need to watch this isn’t a double bluff. Scots farming and fishing’s tory heartland, ferocious tory no’s.

  181. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland
    Perhaps Kahn’s nonsense was to stir up anger and over-reaction, like calling all no-voters yoons, and taking about London England, which people are doing. If so it seems to be working, with some at least.

  182. Rock says:


    “Between Rock and Mr Peffers, maybe there lies the truth; it is the people of Scotland, not the SNP, who should contest the legitimacy of Scottish sovereignty by seeking a judicial review at the Court of Session.”

    There is no between.

    Either we are “sovereign” or we are not.

    In my view, we most certainly are not.

    Those shouting from the rooftops of their “sovereignty” should put their money where their mouths are and start the process for a judicial review.

    You will be helped all the way by “Lawyers for Yes”, all two of them.

  183. ben madigan says:

    @Jack Collatin says:
    3 March, 2017 at 5:56 pm

    They all repeat the mantra: ‘The Scottish people don’t want a second Referendum.’

    It’s all part of spreading the”Referendun/Voting Fatigue” virus, designed to dissuade people from voting – stay at home on the day, you’re tired of voting

  184. yesindyref2 says:

    Here you go Rock, the over 100 signatories to the declaration of Lawyers for Yes, most of them solicitors or QCs. Not “all two of them”, nearly 100 of them. You’ll be so pleased 🙂

    I guess you missed it last time I posted it for you.

  185. Thepnr says:

    When Thersa May submits the UK’s formal application for Brexit under Article 50 before the end of this month I think that will just be the start of a very bumpy ride for those of us on the Independence Bus.

    How quickly after that Nicola Sturgeon will announce plans for a new Independence referendum is anyone’s guess though personally I don’t think it will be announced at this month’s SNP conference. The reason being we don’t know what is going to be in the Article 50 letter sent to the EU until it’s published.

    The Scottish Government specifically requested that Scotland’s position be a part of that letter and whether it is or isn’t the SG will still need time to consider it fully.

    Once though that the announcement is made and a vote in Holyrood has been cast in support of a new Independence referendum will things start to get really interesting.

    It is then that the SG will request a Section 30 order under the Scotland Act be granted, similar to the Edinburgh Agreement agreed between Cameron and Salmond in 2012 for the 2014 referendum before the next can take place.

    I think Westminster will agree to a Section 30 order, however as has already been strongly hinted at the Tories will not agree to another referendum before Brexit negotiations have been concluded. This would be a major stumbling block to any agreement on a Section 30 order being reached at all.

    It is just about now that the Independence Bus hits the rocky part of the road.

    My thinking is that the UK is going into the EU exit negotiations with a very weak hand, May intends to use the likes of Scottish Fisheries and Oil to strengthen their hand in her negotiations. She also is well aware of the massive headache that will be created having Scotland remaining in the EU or EFTA/EEA on her doorstep and all that this will entail.

    She cannot afford any possibility of a vote for Independence before Brexit negotiations are concluded and her hands are tied. She will not budge from this position is my belief.

    What will Nicola Sturgeon do then? I think a storm is brewing.

  186. Big Phil says:

    Is it just me? Minimal supporters at labour conf, minimal tories at con conf(see what i did there. a feckin con alright), no voters not turning up during the Ref in 2014, Yes voters all over the place yet we lost??? makes the mind boggle. NO?

  187. Juan P says:

    @armygrad24 says:
    3 March, 2017 at 11:58 am
    If the Unionist position is so strong, why are they not commissioning poll after poll to confirm their rhetoric?

    Aye it’s a bit odd that.

  188. Abulhaq says:

    Ruth Davidson’s zimmer troopers….

  189. Rock says:


    Here you go Rock, the over 100 signatories to the declaration of Lawyers for Yes, most of them solicitors or QCs. Not “all two of them”, nearly 100 of them. You’ll be so pleased ?”

    If there really were over 100 lawyers in favour of Yes, we would have started a judicial review at the Court of Session to decide on our “sovereignty” a long time ago.

    Lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low, in my view.

    They would never put their money where their mouths are.

    By the way did you answer the question I asked you last night?


    “To pick up what Rev says, all I gave was £5, and posted as much on the first thread.

    Am I ashamed it’s so little? Why should I be? It’s all I can afford at the moment.”


    “How many copies of The National do you buy per week?

    How much does it cost you per week?”

  190. yesindyref2 says:

    You do focus on personal attacks or personal questions of individuals don’t you, is there some reason for this? Some form of sad mad fan bonding attempts perhaps? Bonding attempt refused!

    You do know this forum is about Independence not me? Or you for that matter.

  191. Liam says:

    Apparently that is’a crowd’

    reminded me of this moment when the bereft inhabitants of Leeds (population of 750,700, the third largest city in the United Kingdom) turned out to share their collective grief during Thatcher’s funeral.

  192. Undeadshaun says:

    Rock I’m almost certain you are a 77 brigade or gchq/mi5/sis/mis


    Sent here to divide us.

    You know what rock it aint working we all see what you are!!!!!

  193. Thepnr says:

    Despite what the papers and the Tories might want you to believe I don’t think it’s possible for Nicola Sturgeon to say for definite at the SNP conference that there will be another referendum.

    Not only does Theresa May firstly have to begin the Article 50 process by sending a letter to the EU but she also has to totally reject all the proposals put forward months ago in the “Scotland’s Place In Europe” paper.

    Also, I guess it would be wise to wait to hear what the EU have to say about the Article 50 letter from the UK before committing to anything. So hold your horses I doubt we’re going anywhere fast.

    I could also just be talking bollocks though and Nicola will 🙂

  194. manandboy says:

    Theresa May says the SNP is trying to break up and destroy the precious Union between Scotland and England. That is the same as saying that the solicitor for a battered abused wife in a divorce case is trying to destroy the marriage.

  195. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Viceroy Fluffy
    It’s clear to see you’re not one to flourish under pressure, so it’s just as well that UKOK has a social safety-net, which your party is dismantling as fast as they can. Oh! Better sort yourself out with a good cardboard box, pronto. If you leave it too late to look out for yourself, you’re liable to make a poor choice and a rash decision, fannybawz.

    Britain has certainly produced some inspirational characters, so I’m spoiled for choice when thinking of who’s memory you invoke.

    WARNING: very rude!

    Vicroy Fluffy mistakes toilet brush for toothbrush.

  196. Nana says:


    Any thoughts on this

    G A Ponsonby says

    May will have to introduce legislation for a new Scotland Act *before* Brexit to stop ‘Brussels powers’ coming to Holyrood by default.

  197. Liz g says:

    Thepnr @ 9.34
    That’s kind of what I was trying to say earlier… Only not as well.
    But how can Westminster negotiate a deal with “UK” Agriculture & Fishing,when after Brexit and a Yes vote from Scotland a big chunk of that is back to being “EU” agriculture and fishing.
    A Yes vote after Brexit would void any deal made….It makes no sense,that I can see to have the referendum after Brexit!
    Same for oil & gas ect, they can’t negotiate with resources that they shortly won’t have?
    Infact the EU should be negotiating Scotlands exports into England on our behalf,and that will be the “keeping the lights on” stuff that will give the EU a good hand!
    Or is it Tin Hat Time?

  198. yesindyref2 says:

    With you on the EU / EFTA/EEA / none thing, whichever it is and even whatever party it is in future, it will be Scotland’s political party and Scotland’s parliament with full powers, and that will reflect Scotland not the UK. I’ve posted a good few times in the likes of the Herald that even if the UK Government did its job totally fairly and competently it would have to reflect the best interests of the UK as a whole, not those of Scotland, Wales, NO, North of England, South-West England or any part. Except if, like London, it felt that was in the best interests of the UK as a whole.

    So even with the bestest idealest and most wonderful Westminster Government, it won’t be the best for Scotland, nor should it be.

    Will Sturgeon announce Indy Ref 2 at the conference? No idea, all she might seek is what she has already – concensus that she calls it when she thinks is right.

  199. Cadogan Enright says:

    I phoned up and complained about the camera angles near the floor at the front

    They made it look lilke there were more than 200 people there

    Now I see there was not even that

    How about a few more of you phoning up?

  200. woosie says:


    I heard the RS interviews from Coldstream ( near england ) and Cornhill ( in england ). 5 people interviewed; 2 with Scots accent all for indy, 3 with english accent horrified that we would consider it!

    Probably a fair representation of the area, given that, for instance, ITV’s 6 o’clock regional new covers ” Cumbria and the South of Scotland “.

  201. Jock McDonnell says:

    Nicola will not announce the deal at conference, when the day comes, she will tell Holyrood first. Heavily trailed of course, but parliament first.
    Thats the smart way to do it.

  202. Macart says:


    He may have a point.

    Devolved powers
    The affairs over which the Scottish Parliament has control are called devolved powers, and they include:

    * health
    * education and training
    * local government
    * law, including most aspects of criminal and civil law, the prosecution system and the courts
    * social work
    * housing
    * tourism and economic development
    * some aspects of transport, including the Scottish road network, bus policy, and ports and harbours
    planning and the environment
    * agriculture, forestry and fishing
    * sport and the arts
    * miscellaneous matters, such as compiling statistics and keeping public records

    See the important bits were used as bargaining chips in EU negotiations over the years. What little was left of those competences were deemed of such little importance or influence they were given over to the devolved legislation.

    I doubt they ever dreamed the real meat of fisheries policy or agriculture would ever make their way back from joint UK/EU oversight.

    How and ever, they WILL and the devolved parliament already has competence over fisheries and agriculture. In order to initiate a power grab, there may very well be an attempt on the current Scotland bill settlement and also an attempt to undermine the Holyrood parliament itself.

  203. Robert Louis says:

    I think all this anti SNP and Scottish independence hubris from the Tories, is designed to try to make the SNP jump too soon.

    You see, the ideal scenario for the Tories, would be for the ScotGov to declare an independence referendum, before we see the tory EU strategy, as outlined in the article 50 letter.

    So, for example, if NS said today ‘we are going to have indyref’, then come the article 50 letter, the Tories would just sneakily then insert something about getting a special deal for Scotland. The upshot would be to effectively kill the SNP’s voice on the matter, and help to sway voters away from independence.

    The problem for the Tories, however, is that if NS waits her time, before calling an indyref, then they (Tories) will already have declared their position, and would then find it difficult to row back, and say, that actually they’ve changed their minds and WILL get a special arrangement for Scotland.

    IMHO, their is one hell of a game of cat and mouse going on. Fluffy I think almost gave the game away in his interview with Andrew Neil today – in my opinion. Listen very, very closely to every thing he says (ignore the bluster), and his choice of words. He didn’t ACTUALLY rule out a special arrangement definitively for Scotland. Neither has May.

    Basically, the Tories desperately want NS to call a referendum right now, so they can undermine her. Sadly, for them, NS and the SNP are well aware of the game they play.

    I could of course be completely wrong. I do think NS is for now adopting the right strategy, but when it comes time to call indyref, they should not hesitate for one second. We cannot wait too long, as the damage from Brexit is already being done – many people making important choices as to whether to remain here or not.

    Very soon, we should go for it. We will win – of that I am confident, more so than last time.

  204. Jock McDonnell says:

    We do have to start hitting back on the economic circumstances.
    The lies are being hammered home, time & time again.
    That and the hypocrisy of the ‘unity of brexit’.
    Of course we might have some powerful allies out there post A50 who will undermine unionism and the brexit agenda, but all my experiences tell me to expect we will have to do it all alone once again.
    So be it, its worth it.

  205. Dr Jim says:

    Been talking to the English half of my family and they’re all 100% certain Scotland “can’t go Independent because England’s against it and there’s more of them” their words

    So I suggested that by that logic if America decided to take over England that should be OK coz there’s more of them and they might say it’s for the best interests of England

    My relatives comeback was slick and to the point in that England would never agree to be ruled by someone else

    I replied by saying “eh what now” why should Scotland then?
    Once again another incisive answer came back rapidly, because they are great thinkers my lot

    “Because we’re England and the UK is our country”

    Conversation pretty much over! right there!

  206. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    I can see Nicola “upping the ante” in this long-drawn-out indy poker game by declaring at the upcoming SNP conference her intention to move a bill in Holyrood to enable a call for a referendum, with the formal request to the UKgov contingent on the invocation of Art.50 without any “sign-off” by SG, including a “single-market” compromise.

    So a clear line in the sand is drawn in advance, and May (and the whole rest of the world) will know without a shred of doubt what she is bringing about if she chooses to cross it.

  207. bilptoe says:

    My dug says,

    The next Scottish referendum should be called during the upcoming local council elections in May. A wee extra paper to cross aff while you’re there anyroad, no sweat. That’d sort the voter fatigue problem and counteract any funny business by the electoral commission, wrongfoot the media and catch the tollies on the hop.

    Quick and simple.

  208. Thepnr says:


    Yes I would agree with GA Ponsonby. The Scotland Act is law and that law says that powers not retained are devolved which currently includes Fisheries and Agriculture.

    I’m not a lawyer but it seems to make sense that if you want to grab part of an already devolved power then you would need legislation that allowed you to do so.

    They will do this and you know that, Fisheries in particular is an important bargaining chip along with EU migrants, we’re not even pawns in this game. We’re not even in the same room.

    No fear though, these are all tools that will be used against Westminster Tories when the time comes, they’re making a right ham fist of this.

  209. Robert Louis says:

    Macart at 1059pm,

    I think you are right about them possibly trying to undermine the Scottish Parliament. Must always bear in mind, that so far as I understand it, as per legislation, their are no devolved powers, merely RESERVED powers, as that was how the Parliament was established. In other words, things reserved by Westminster are listed in legislation, anything not listed is assumed under Scot Gov control.

    I do hope the current bunch of Tories are familiar with the history of Ireland, and how that ended. I think any attempt to undermine the Scottish Parliament would mean a swift end to the union, with immediate effect. But then again May, Boris, Gove and others do seem to be utter fools when it comes to Scotland – and just about ANY other country they deal with.

  210. Peter Newling says:

    So Theresa May seems to have decided to be Margaret Thatcher in her response to the Scottish Government, the SNP and the push for independence. No more devolution, give them an inch and they’ll want a mile, let’s bind the Union tighter.

    This tough no-nonsense line will be thrilling for Adam Tomkins, Murdo Fraser etc – the Unionist press will love it too. But how will it go down with the crucial floating voters,the soft No voters of 2014?

    I think [and hope] this strong No Surrender line will prove to be a huge mistake. We shall see. I hope that we have visits from May, Fox, Fallon etc. to tell us that we should know our place. Let’s see Jacob Rees-Mogg and the idiot Costa. Please.

  211. Dr Jim says:

    I forgot to mention this
    Why do we have to keep answering inane questions from No supporters and Brexiters on anything when Theresa May and her nut jobs don’t bother answering anything on anything

    Why should we answer questions on the economy of Scotland, it’s sod all to do with anyone else, if it’s good enough for the Tories it’s good enough for us

    Independence means Independence! and we’re going to make a success of it and get the best deal for Scotland
    Who do you think you are now F… off!

  212. Nana says:


    I thought so too, legislation which of course will pass through the commons no bother at all. Do you think Nicola will wait till that happens before calling indy2

    I might be havering here, I’m tired and doped up on painkillers [sore shoulder]

  213. Meg merrilees says:


    Republican:- SF 26; SDLP10; PBPA 1;

    Unionist:- DUP 21; UUP 10; TUV1;

    Allance 8; Green 1; Indy 1

  214. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Robert Louis @ 23:05,

    A very thoughtful posting, that. Worth pondering.

    There are conflicting signs and portents from the Tories. I would have said though that they are more anxious to postpone a newindyref, hence all their bluster about us “not wanting” it, and hints that they might be willing to grant it but use any dirty trick possible to delay it until after Brexit is a done deal.

    Just like in the middle ages, they don’t want to be fighting on two fronts at the same time, vs Scotland and the Continentals.

    With our past bitter experience, it’s impossible to trust them either way. If Mayhem were to sneak in an unspecific “Vow” to consider Scotland in the Brexit negotiations, we could be shafted at any point later whenever it suited her. If there is no promise, we would likely be shafted from the get-go. So it would be “tails they win, heads we lose”.

    The only way we can reasonably proceed with this devious crew would therefore be to have a written agreement set down in cold print in advance. Now, how likely is that to happen?

    I think that one of the necessary conditions for SG “sign off” and indyref deferred would be an independent SG presence at the Brexit talks, so we can protect our interests separately, and maybe get a good idea of what EU retention would mean if we went for independence. But Mayhem would certainly refuse such a condition, since it outflanks her.

    Then it’s “game on”.

    You are right, though, we cannot afford to wait too long.

  215. Nana says:

    Thanks Pnr. Cadogan has posted a video from facebook on the previous thread @11.06pm. Gordon Ross makes some good points, unfortunately it ended abruptly.

  216. Meg merrilees says:

    84 out of 90 seats declared.

    SF 26; SDLP 11; PBPA 1.

    DUP 25; UUP 10; TUV1.

    Alliance 8; Indy 1; Green 1.

    4 Unionists just got elected at stage 9 of the STV process!

  217. Thepnr says:

    @Liz g

    Agriculture & Fishing,when after Brexit and a Yes vote from Scotland a big chunk of that is back to being “EU” agriculture and fishing.
    A Yes vote after Brexit would void any deal made….It makes no sense,that I can see to have the referendum after Brexit!

    Yes Liz you are absolutely right! May wants to bargain with something that doesn’t belong to her after a Yes vote.

    If I was say a Spanish Government representative and the UK said, “we’ll let continue to fish in our waters in exchange for no tariffs on our car exports”.

    Me, the Spaniard would say “Hahaha You might not have those waters next year if Scotland votes for Independence”.

    “You have nothing to offer!”

    An Independence vote before Brexit or after really won’t make any difference to the UK’s negotiating power though they believe it does. It will all be a sham if Scotland votes for Independence.

    I think we have them in a bit of a quandary LOL. Over a barrel is what I really like to think.

    Could be that the Scottish Government is in a very strong position right now, hence the “war cabinet” meeting last week at Downing street and Fluffy flapping his Wings and trying to take off today outside the conference.

    No wonder these chancers are in a panic. Headless chickens and May will go down in history as a worse Prime Minister than Cameron. I wouldn’t have thought that possible.

    There you go though, happy days 🙂

  218. Macart says:


    Sore shoulder? Painkillers?

    Off to bed young lady and no pausing for a sly sherry on the way. 🙂

  219. Paula Rose says:

    Anyone able to explain to me why EU membership for Scotland would be denied?

  220. Maria F says:

    Wow! Their numbers must be really small when they have to resource to hiring UKIP stewardesses for the event. I am referring to the two youngsters in the front row wearing the matching uniforms. I am wondering if the £350m-per-week-for-the-NHS battle bus was also parked outside to give the members a safe lift home at the end of the conference.

  221. Still Positive says:

    The pnr @ 11,47.
    Totally correct.

    She is definitely a worse PM than Cameron. I think many in Scotland would bring him back. At least we knew where we we stood with him. We know what she means and it is not good for Scotland.

  222. heedtracker says:

    Nana I might be havering here, I’m tired and doped up on painkillers [sore shoulder]

    Nana try heat packs. They’re amazing for some kinds of joint pain, cheap as chips in Pound shops too, try them for a few weeks, stick them on permanently in the cold, or mix with cold packs too, take it from an old boxer, heavy weight, glass jaw:D

  223. Thepnr says:

    @Paula Rose

    I’m not saying it would be denied that’s for sure but the bleeding media would without an unequivocal statement from all 27 EU members.

    Great if we could get that before the next referendum then the problem is solved. There would be no issue. Chances of that though I see as being as close to zero as you can get while Brexit negotiations are ongoing.

    Seriously the best I think we’ll get is the four EFTA members saying Yes and a majority of the 27 EU members saying Yes. That’s a guarantee of something but doesn’t mean that once we vote for Independence that we couldn’t retain full membership of the EU.

    Simply, I just don’t think the EU will tell us this BEFORE the referendum and this could be important, what I would hope is that we can destroy the propaganda I expect over the EU before it even starts by having the EEA/EFTA route already open to us.

    Doesn’t mean we have to sign up to it, just that it’s on the table. Once we vote YES then the EU say welcome we don’t need the EFTA option if we don’t want it.

    Kill the propaganda before it starts. Get someone to offer something.

  224. yesindyref2 says:

    @Thepnr / @Paula
    From the looks of it I think there’s a very good chance we’ll get something quite strong from the EU Parliament. It’s looking good from the Group of the Greens/European Free Alliance with 50 MEPs, and the Group of the European People’s Party (Christian Democrats) with 216.

    If say the next largest Group of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats in the EP with 189 were favourable that would be well over half, or even one or two of the other groups. And they’re not as constrained as the Councils might be, I think.

    Not sure yet how much they vote as a group.

  225. Thepnr says:

    62% of the people of Scotland voted to remain in the EU. This is the basis of our argument for a second Independence referendum.

    A massive part or the Unionist argument will be to undermine this assertion that we can remain in the EU even if Independent. This is an argument we need to destroy now, well before any referendum.

    I know we will get comforting words from major leaders such as Merkel or EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier but to our press and BBC this will mean nothing without all 27 countries unanimously agreeing before a referendum. It ain’t going to happen.

    OK seriously, the very best guarantee I think we can get is a YES from the four EFTA countries and nothing at all from the EU.

    The EFTA countries are not involved in the actual negotiations so can say what they like without fear or favour.

    Well sort of, they too won’t want to fall out with the UK, but the richest country in the world is Norway, Lichtenstein and Switzerland aren’t too far behind either and Iceland just wouldn’t care what the UK thinks. That’s in our favour.

  226. manandboy says:

    In 2012 the campaign for IndyRef14 began and it wasn’t long before we realised that the No Campaign was not to be a conventional one. Gradually we were introduced to ‘Fear&Smear’ by Better Together as the made it clear they were only interested in scaring the Electorate, targetting vulnerable groups, while at the same time ditching decency by spreading smear stories against the Scottish Government and the SNP.
    We never did find out the source of fear&smear but we do know that it has become the campaign tactic of choice by the Unionist Alliance of ToryUKIP, Labour & LibDems. Future election campaigns by the Unionists will all be like this, because fear&smear works. Especially the fear. And all based on lies.

  227. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 01:29,

    We have a chicken-and-egg situation here. The EFTA countries won’t give any guarantees for the same reasons that the EU countries can’t. They can’t be seen to be interfering in the (then) internal affairs of another country (the UK).

    It’s only by being independent that we get a seat at the “top table”. (After all, that’s one of the most important reasons for being independent. Note that, Yes-Leavers.)

    Furthermore, as you observe, the EFTA countries don’t have a stake in this either way. Unlike the EU, which definitely has multiple interests in keeping us in.

    So I think we just have to be prepared to go toe-to-toe with the nay-sayers on this one. But the “unanimous vote” lie doesn’t hold water if we vote indy before Brexit. And the EU looks to be very willing to do what is necessary to keep the door open for us if we do.

    At the very least, we won’t have anyone like that toady Barroso appearing on Andrew Marr’s BT broadcast benefit show telling us that we can’t get in. We might actually have the likes of Verhofstadt making positive noises to the contrary.

  228. Big Phil says:

    We cant be feart next time, its oors only if we want it. We need to get out there and show that we DO want it ,persuade all our friends with the WBB, i read it again and i think “are people blind” ,YES they are because they dont read what we read. Education IS power. Educate people. 😉

  229. Thepnr says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    Just trying to stay positive Robert!

    It’s all about beating the propaganda, simple as that. how do we do it?

    Cast iron guarantees are one way but if you don’t have that, then what. I guess we just have to fall back on word of mouth and as Big Phil says educating people.

    I hope you have your walking shoes on there’s going to be a lot of walking and talking to do.

  230. yesindyref2 says:

    @Big Phil
    Well, as I posted before I just pointed out to a NO pal of mine to check out to see if he thought the BBC was biased (he already knew the printed media was biased politically), and it wasn’t long before he became a YES. Quite irate he gets at Westminster these days 🙂

  231. Liz g says:

    Thepnr @ 2.04
    Aye but I reckon we can do both at the same time…..
    Have ye ever seen Fluffy do it?

  232. Big Phil says:

    Ive got a feeling that the shit is gonnae hit the fan.. and i can’t wait. 😉

  233. yesindyref2 says:

    @Big Phil
    Feck ’em!

  234. Breeks says:

    Does that not make you sick?

    Tories are asking whether contractors for government tenders support Brexit. As if there isn’t enough shenanigans with government procurement already.

    Seriously, what living feck is going on in Westminster? It is virtual anti-government; these Tories come from beyond the looking glass; where deception trumps honesty, corruption outranks integrity, and common human decency is considered a crime or a delusion.

    Britain is the serpent that is currently devouring its own tail. We must get out.

  235. Macart says:

    Another superb video from Phantom Power.

  236. Fred says:

    Fluffster flustered!

  237. Nana says:


    Someone hid the sherry!

    @Heedtracker An ex boxer. Bot getting into any fights with you! Rock take cover man.

    Thanks for advice. I have heat pads, they are good but sometimes nothing works.

  238. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    I hope your shoulder is not as painful this morning, (#Totally Selfish)worried in case I didn’t get my Lovely links, Thank You. Kettle’s on!

    Peace Always

  239. Nana says:

    @Smallaxe Good morning, it’s better right now thank you. Entirely my own fault, pulling stubborn weeds.

    The times they are a changing

  240. My Wife who usually gets a bit p***ed of with me always going on about bbc bias was truly fuming last night.She was at the SEC yesterday. she is demonstrating at a craft show next door to the Armadildo. she saw the Jack & Jackie the two union flag wearing Ladies. She thought they were funny and was a bit annoyed when she heard one of their male tory members ( got to be careful the way you read that!!!) say “great! down south they get Gerry Haliwell in her union jack minidress look what we get Ruthies fan club!.Casting aspersions on these ladies sexuality.
    Anyway I digress my wife told me that there was several hundred protesters outside the armadillo not the four that the BBC showed on film &said that Sarah Smith must be visually impaired. She also saw how directed close up filming made sure that the place looked busy and is now telling everyone who will listen how the BBC creates fake news. So carry on BBC and Tory party when you do things like this in public all you are doing is opening up the previously duped, The gullible and The brainwashed to the truth. Thank you she has stopped nagging me about Calling the BBC the ministry of propaganda and ms Smith Gobbles (no I did not misspell that!)

  241. Nana says:


    If I recall those are from the day before [I think]

    I do still have them all in a file but wary of reposting too many in case one had a gremlin. I don’t know as I check each one before posting on here and they were all fine.

  242. cearc says:


    Stop y’fretting, laddie.

    Although the EU does not interfere in members internal politics, as per last indyref, this is a different ball game entirely.

    Once art.50 is triggered it becomes an EU27 v. UK situation, with UK part in and part out. EU27 will be looking for their own best interests and keeping Scotland (and the unification of Ireland) are clearly in its interest.

    I really can’t see them wasting their time negotiating stuff like ‘UK’ fishing rights not knowing whether the ‘UK’ will exist once it is signed. I think Ms. May will find that our assets are worth very little as a bargaining chip without our consent.

    The whilst uk has spent 8 months stamping its feet and shouting ‘britain is great’, the EU27 have had teams of people exploring all aspects. They have watched the Britnat propaganda team in all its dishonest glory both before and since EUref and many will have remembered the disinformation and mis-representation that was spread for Indyref.

    I think that much will change once art.50 is signed.

  243. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Sorry, there might be a couple of doublers
    Reminded me of yesterday’s announcement by May, said she was stopping eating crisps for Lent. Shortly afterwards this

    Talk about a jinx!

    Hometown foundation used by Davidson at FMQ’s, they are for privatisation

    From around 13.52 you can hear the lady caller asking Khan about his speech at slab’s conf

    Belfast telegraph have had a running commentary all day, and the bbc updated their news at lunchtime.

    The canary covering this now

    Reminded me of yesterday’s announcement by May, said she was stopping eating crisps for Lent. Shortly afterwards this

    Hometown foundation used by Davidson at FMQ’s, they are for privatisation


    Peace Always

  244. BTWI drove into the Armadillo drop off point yesterday to drop off my wife just prior to the restrictions being put in place I was asked by one of Glasgows finest where we were going ect my wife explained that she was working nextdoor at the craft show and there was about twenty thousand people expected. He replied” thats great! have a great day and just think if there are twenty thousand there that will be about nineteen thousand more than in here to see Teresa!”
    Ah Glasgow polis best in the world! dont do fake news!

  245. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Sorry!

    But I doubt very much if it was your links that caused the chaos.

    Peace Always

  246. Nana says:

    @Smallaxe xx

    I worried about it all day yesterday thinking about whether there was something I missed. Went over them several times and found nothing.
    Rev will know what happened I’m sure.

  247. Glamaig says:

    @Gordon Forrest 9:47

    Thats great – it can be a slow drip drip of doubts and wee ‘thats not right’ moments or it can be an in your face ‘you lying bastards I was there’ moment, that changes you forever!

    For me it was being interviewed for a kind of vox pop back in the 80s and the bastards used it out of context to support what they had decided was going to be their story or ‘angle’. They then edit all the clips they have gathered to get the program they want. Its not reporting the news, its making the news.

    From then on, I had the bastards sussed.

    Another seminal moment was the big snow incident in 2010. I had seen the forecast which was snow but nothing too drastic, and drove to work like everyone else. Yet the BBC tried to make out it was all forecast.

  248. DerekM says:

    @ cearc

    lol spot on.

    This entire show all the independence talk,the goading,the delay in a50 has been an attempt to force us to jump the gun call indy and have the tory electoral commission run it.

    When mayhem finally signs a50 she signs away westminsters right to run the referendum,we can bring in the EU and while we are at it the UN charter.

    Basically when she signs a50 she loses all tory dirty election tricks in our Scottish constitutional debate.

  249. DerekM says:

    Bumped into a good pal of mine i had not seen for many years last night we got chatting,he was quite taken aback with how pro EU i am now as i never used to be.

    He asked me why i had changed my mind,i did not even need to think about it as i said protection.

    He gave me a strange look the eh wtf are you talking about one.

    To which i said remember i am half Irish.

    He quipped back man Scots/Irish separatist hope you have got your bags packed.

    It was all just a laugh over a few drinks he is a big indy supporter and pro EU,but i had never considered that my own status could possibly mean me having to flee from my own country as an EU citizen.

    Now that is just messed up.

  250. Michael says:

    Jings, those two women aren’t a patch on Fran & Anna

  251. chris kilby says:

    I thought that was Fran and Anna.

  252. Smallaxe says:

    Michael says:

    “Jings, those two women aren’t a patch on Fran & Anna”

    They thought that they were in the job centre as there was a vacancy for two Clowns.

    Peace Always

  253. Thepnr says:


    Duly telt and I’ll stop frettin 🙂

    The relationship between Scotland/EU/UK is something that is not going to be untangled easily. In fact it’s just a giant ball of knots. The UK is in deep dodo I think.

  254. Susan Smith says:

    Guess you must have a mole inside the conference. Great move.

  255. CameronB Brodie says:

    I think you’ll find the technical term is a ‘bag of washing’ (see ‘How to Britain was Broken”, Myself, WOS Press, 2017). 🙂

  256. CameronB Brodie says:

    At least I’m only fluffing one-liners, unlike other fluffers that spring to mind.

  257. Thepnr says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    “bag of washing” Yeah that works 🙂

  258. Cairnallochy says:

    Interesting article in Independent today – 25 Things That Theresa May said about Scottish Nationalism That Apply to Brexit. Extracts from her speech with commentary by Tom Peck.

  259. Smallaxe says:

    CameronB: & Thepnr:

    Another useful few words. Rasta speak for Tr–t-r, Bag o’ Wire!

    Peace Always

  260. David Smyth says:

    That is Theresa May. The PM of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Our top politician, leader of governing party and in charge of Brexit negotiations.

    I’ve seen more people round a busker in Waverley Station.

  261. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    DerekM @ 10:20:

    tory electoral commission

    No, no, no, this kind of wild mudslinging just won’t do, especially on a website dedicated to getting to the truth.

    The Electoral Commission work within a legal framework that is the making of politicians of all parties, not any one. They are the servants of the Law as it stands, not conspirators with anyone, least of all with any political party.

    Try visiting their website and you might get a better idea of what they are empowered to do and (equally importantly) what they are not. Then you might avoid casual slanders like this in the future.

  262. James Westland says:

    The lack of people in that picture speaks volumes

    We are led to believe that there is some sort of “tory revival” going on. If that WERE the case, there should be a lot more people present and a lot more younger people as well

    If there was a true revival, there would be a lot more activity by activists and those activists should be present at the gathering. The lack of numbers suggest that there simply arent a lot of tory activists around

    The revival in Tory fortunes is simply due to erstwhile SLAB SNP-phobes casting their unionist votes for the Cons. There is no sign, from this conference anyway, of an increase in grass-roots activism.

    Unless of course they were all out campaigning…..

  263. Rock says:


    “To pick up what Rev says, all I gave was £5, and posted as much on the first thread.

    Am I ashamed it’s so little? Why should I be? It’s all I can afford at the moment.”


    “How many copies of The National do you buy per week?

    How much does it cost you per week?”

    That is not a personal attack as you claim.

    It is a reasonable question.

    You probably spend £100 or more on The National per year.

    But you can only afford £5 per year for WOS.

    I trust you are posting 20 times more comments in The National than on WOS.

    As for personal attacks:


    “Oh God, the CRock shift is on again

    “Crock: something considered to be complete nonsense”


  264. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    cearc @ 09:54:

    Once art.50 is triggered it becomes an EU27 v. UK situation, with UK part in and part out. EU27 will be looking for their own best interests and keeping Scotland [is] clearly in its interest.

    Hmmm, there is more than a little realpolitik in all of this. As I’ve already said, the SG could insist on a presence at the Brexit talks as part of the “UK” side, since their (ie. our) vital interests are at stake and we have no confidence whatever that London would protect them. The EU might be very willing to say out loud that they agree to this. Mayhem would almost certainly refuse. That in itself would be sufficient casus belli, I would think, for launching newindyref.

  265. G H Graham says:

    The leader of the mighty British State; a NATO allied nuclear superpower, arms dealer of choice to Middle Eastern dictators & one of the most corrupt economies in the world can attract an audience of a barely a couple of hundred of mostly old people dressed for a funeral.

    It’s over Theresa. Scotland is done with you & your rotten Union.

  266. K.A.Mylchreest says:


    Or maybe “English votes in Scotland” = EVIS-cerate? Frankly, I’m gutted …

  267. Tam the Bam. says:

    Scottish Tory Conference:

    Just a final postscript to the above.On my way through the enclosed ‘flyover’ walkway from the SECC yesterday,who should I notice walking briskly towards the SECC and garbling into his moby?..why noneother than Magnus Gardham..late of The Herald (Editor)and now Fluffy’s ‘aide-de-camp in the Scottish Office.Now who do you imagine he was talking to…hmmm?

  268. Robert Peffers says:

    @Tam the Bam. says: 5 March, 2017 at 9:27 pm:
    ” … why noneother than Magnus Gardham..late of The Herald (Editor)and now Fluffy’s ‘aide-de-camp in the Scottish Office.Now who do you imagine he was talking to…hmmm?”

    Probably telling the BBC, and other TV and Dead Tree Press, what they were to propagate to the natives about the conference.

    In such a situation you should have swiftly whipped out your own mobile and made pretence to be using it. Then accidentally cannoned into Marcus while standing on one of his feet.

    With a foot trapped and a bump from a shoulder he would have gone down in a heap. Then you could have taken a selfie with you standing over Marcus lying on the ground.

    All, of course, totally accidental. It wouldn’t achieve anything but it sure would have made you feel a damned site better.

  269. John says:

    From BBC website but unpublished
    “Wings Over Scotland provide photographic evidence that Conservative party support in Scotland has quadrupled in the last 6 months since Brexit”

  270. Greannach says:

    Just guessing that the ones at the back are the carers.

  271. Greannach says:

    The best plastic flower competition at Botriphnie WRI attracts bigger crowds than this.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top