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Wings Over Scotland


The classic double whammy

Posted on January 18, 2014 by

Step 1: Write an offensive, provocative piece of trollbait for the Daily Mail, describing your opponents as “kilted bum-barers who bellow ‘freedom’ whenever an English person hoves into view” and suggesting that a Yes vote is an abdication of morality.

(If you can then somehow get the Guardian to reprint it, bonus!)

deerinisatwat

Step 2: Whine like a baby when you get the response you wanted all along.

OPTIONAL:

Step 3: Find some way to make it all Alex Salmond’s fault.

mailgutter

Step 4: On no account ever, ever mention things like this. Or this. Or this. Etc.

We’ve retrieved the full bleat below, so you don’t have to buy the Mail to read it.

——————————————————————————————————–

How I became a victim of the Cybernats, the online yobs who shame the SNP

His passionate defence of Britain sparked a nationwide debate. But it also exposed the darkness at the heart of the Nationalist cause

When the history of the Scottish Civil War is written, I’m pretty sure it will record that ‘Chris Deerin started it with that f****** piece’.

So said one Twitter user in the rather turbulent aftermath of an article I wrote for last Saturday’s Scottish Daily Mail. And, in truth, it has seemed at times over the past week as if that might not be too far from the truth.

I had tried to set out what I termed a ‘moral case’ for Scots to vote to stay in the United Kingdom in this September’s independence referendum. It was a piece I’d wanted to write for some time.

Having recently moved home to Scotland from London, I felt that Better Together was in danger of living up to the ‘Project Fear’ nickname used by the Yes campaign – that the focus on economic and legal arguments, important though those are, was a little bloodless.

There was a risk that the deeper reasons behind why I and others regard themselves as Scottish and British, and are keen to stay that way, were being obscured.

I said, in short, that I regard Britain as a force for good in the world, as a beacon to those countries that lack many of the rights we take for granted – a disputatious democracy, freedoms of speech and association, solidarity, fairness, stability and free-standing institutions.

We are very far from perfect, of course, but tough decisions and significant responsibility come with our position as a front-rank power with a seat at the top tables of the UN, the G8 and Nato, our close relationship with the United States and our influence as one of the largest members of the EU. This should not be tossed recklessly aside.

I also argued that our 300-year Union has been good for Scotland and that Scots have been good for Britain. We can take credit for many of the country’s economic, military, scientific, humanitarian and intellectual achievements.

The world would be diminished by the United Kingdom breaking up. There is no alternative Utopia on offer.

The article made a bit of an impact. For those in favour of maintaining the Union, on both sides of the Border, it seemed to scratch an itch. In the days that followed I was – I’m not exaggerating – swamped with supportive messages, emails and tweets from politicians, commentators, friends and strangers.

Some said that Better Together should begin framing the argument in the terms I had outlined. One former Cabinet minister said he intended to send the piece to Downing Street. A few people confessed it had brought them close to tears – always nice to hear you’ve stirred the emotions.

‘That’s the piece I’ve been yearning for someone to write – the arguments for the Union must be moral & emotional as well as bean-counting,’ said the noted historian Tom Holland.

Another, Dan Snow, tweeted: ‘What a brilliant article. Could not agree more. Thank you.’ The Guardian asked to reprint an edited version in its UK edition.

I don’t mean any of this to sound selfcongratulatory. My point is simply that many people passionately share my view and are happy that it has been aired.

And what of the other side? I have Nationalist friends and colleagues. They disagreed with my conclusions, obviously, but most appreciated that at least I’d tried to set out a positive case for Britain, rather than simply knocking the idea of independence. I’d been careful not to say that if I regarded maintaining the Union as a moral idea, I viewed the alternative as immoral.

If we might interject for a moment: what you actually wrote, Chris, was “When my girls put the question to me, I hope to be in a position to tell them that when the moment arrived, Scots – Scots, of all people! – did not opt to go small, to lay down the moral role conferred on them by history, to turn their back on the difficult and painful decisions”.

That seems to be a pretty clear implication that a Yes vote is a moral abdication. After all, your piece was entitled “We Scots have a clear moral duty this year – to stay British”. If you duck out of – or indeed, outright oppose – something that’s your “clear moral duty”, what is that BUT immoral? What else can it possibly be?

[???] independent Scotland would work perfectly well, even though there would be bumps along the way. I can see that there is a strong moral and emotional case to be made for it. I don’t condemn anyone for wishing for, or voting for, separation. It’s just that my values, identity and choices lie elsewhere.

Some people made reasoned criticisms of my argument: I hadn’t taken account of the bad bits of the British EmpireX they were disillusioned with successive Tory and New Labour governments and felt that their political view would be more accurately represented by an independent Scottish state the idea of ‘Britishness’ no longer had any purchase – although why then, one might ask, is Alex Salmond so keen to maintain the Queen as Head of State and assert that the social and cultural union will continue?

I had tried to add a bit of humour to lighten a long piece, by saying that the Yes campaign was ‘ struggling to convert the greater mass of Scots into kilted bum-barers who shout “freedom” whenever an English person hoves into view’ – a fair number took offence at this characterisation.

Fair enough, and it is not actually how I think of Yes voters. Some switherers said that I had chosen the wrong moral argument – if they voted No, it would be because they didn’t want to abandon their pals in the South in the fight for ‘social justice’.

And, of course, inevitably, there were the Cybernats.

These repellent individuals are independence ultras who roam the internet in search of Unionists to duff up.

They are the football casuals of the independence movement. I’d seen them in action before – they tend to be arrogant, unreconstructed socialists, whose chosen tools are vitriolic abuse, bad language and absolute intolerance of alternative viewpoints.

They rarely use their own names and descend like a plague of locusts.

It was fascinating, if a bit unsettling, to be on the receiving end of days of their verbal violence. And when they were joined by the mob that dominates the Guardian’s online comments – for whom nothing Britain ever does is worthy of praise or understanding – it all got a bit farcical.

‘Chris Deerin is clearly one of the very few Scottish Tories who of course will say and write any antireferendum Central Office propaganda that he is asked or maybe told to do if he was to stand any chance of a medieval trinket in return. I would say this piece is worth at most an MBE…’ one conspiracy theorist havered.

That was quite measured in comparison to some of the other comments. Here’s a sampling:

‘You say this with pride, akin to a Nazi laying claim to the ingenuity of his concentration camp.’

‘Stuff like this was all the rage from the Nazis in the 30s. Evil, pure insulting evil.’

‘The author sounds like a white supremacist.’

‘Utter drivel from a cap-doffing lickspittle. It feels like someone s*** in my porridge.’

‘This man’s children are at school in Stirling – my advice to them? “deny thy father and refuse thy name”.’

‘If you like to “live under the yoke of English domination” that might be correct. But to any Scot with a sense of self and worth, independence is the only way. Why do you think our ancestors spilled their blood on the battlefields?’

Here was ‘Wings Over Scotland’ – the pseudonym of an ageing video game journalist called Stuart Campbell – accusing me of being a ‘ridiculous cringing joke of a human being’.

Um, it’s not a “pseudonym”, you dolt. I don’t write articles under that name, I use my own. It’s like saying the Daily Mail is your “pseudonym”. Still, bad news to learn that I’m “ageing” – is this happening to anyone else? – and also quite surprising to discover that I’m still a video game journalist, when as far as I can recall I haven’t written professionally about videogames for at least three years.

Another, @bikey99, wrote: ‘If we vote YES @chrisdeerin will presumably head back South… do we need any other reason to vote YES?’

Yet another: ‘The good news is, that although unfortunately he has moved back to Stirling, after the YES vote, this creep will most likely f*** off back to London, good riddens’ – a fair number of them are borderline illiterate – so much for the fabled Scottish education system.

‘Kilted Uncle Tom’, ‘utter moron’, ‘Bitter Traitor’, ‘racist’- I could go on.

Now, given the accusations of negativity aimed at the Better Together campaign, you may detect a smidgen of hypocrisy in the statements I’ve reprinted above. I certainly didn’t see anyone from the Yes campaign condemning them.

But what concerns me more than this is that it exposes the problem with extreme nationalism of any stripe, Scottish, British, whatever: a total lack of tolerance of the views of others, the inability to understand that decent people can fairly hold views in opposition to your own, and be entitled to express them without attracting a poisonous response – a separation of people into ‘acceptable’ and ‘unacceptable’ – a belief that there is such a thing as ‘thought crime’.

Sorry, hang on a second – is that REALLY someone from the DAILY MAIL talking about “intolerance” and a “poisonous response” to people expressing views they don’t agree with? THIS Daily Mail? Goodness gracious.

I even recall one independence supporter demanding on Twitter a few months ago that, in the event of a Yes vote, there should be an official inquiry into Scottish Labour politicians and their attempts to save the Union.

History has shown us where, if left unchecked, this kind of sentiment can lead.

I’m aware that there will be a fresh round of abuse following this article’s publication. But it should be repeated constantly by the responsible and the civic-minded on both sides of our national debate: whatever happens on September 18, we will all still have to live together on September 19.

If there is a vote for independence, I have no plans to ‘f*** off back to London’ – like other Scottish democrats, I will accept the majority view and do what I can to make the new polity work.

I believe anyway that the Union needs updated for the 21st century and that the most likely outcome of these events is a looser, federal arrangement for Britain. I think this would probably be good for both Scotland and England.

Will the Cybernats say the same? What if, as every poll shows to be the most likely outcome, Scotland votes No? What do they do on September 19? Accept the democratically expressed will of fellow citizens, or carry on their campaign of hate and abuse?

And if the latter, what is it they hope to achieve? What will that do for Scottish identity and the integrity of our Scottish nation?

By all means let’s have a robust debate over the next eight months. Let’s test each other’s arguments, call out rubbish when we see it, rib and tease each other, put our case as passionately and as eloquently as we can.

But let’s also remember that, whatever our view, we all inhabit the same little section of rock at the top end of the British Isles, and will continue to do so.

You’ve got your referendum – let’s try to keep it civil.

“Your”? Shouldn’t that be “our”, dear? Whoops, there goes that mask again.

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144 to “The classic double whammy”

  1. Pedro says:

    In all seriousness, why does anyone of a Yes persuasion rise to this type of garbage?

    A simple ‘lol’ in the comments should suffice, surely?

  2. Gaavster says:

    If you repeat a lie often enough… etc

    The dirty war has commenced, let’s make no bones about it

  3. Norrie says:

    The man is a ‘Sawar’

  4. Paul says:

    Glad to see that most people are doing just that laughing at them. Who cares what the Daily Mail or Guardian print hardly any Scots read them anyway.

  5. Dick Gaughan says:

    Anybody fancy the idea of badges, T-shirts etc with “Proud Cybernat” slogans on them above a hysterical laughing mouth? (or something similar). Proceeds to support Wings.

    Something like it would at least provoke “wizzahellsawrataboot?” discussions 🙂

  6. john king says:

    Kinda reminds me of the outrage of Nigel Farage when he got the response he came to Edinburgh for, but didn’t reckon on the (abusers ) not actually being SNP and in some cases not even Scottish but hey its all good if you can get a few good photos of people pointing their fingers at you what do the facts matter eh?

  7. pmcrek says:

    Seems most of the independence focused articles in the London MSM are simply trolling for click bait, they’ve already lost every argument they’ve presented BTL. There is pretty much nothing else left for them to print other than smears.

  8. john king says:

    I bet lord Ffffoulkes is regretting ever coining that phrase 🙂

  9. G H Graham says:

    Fantastic though it is, I cannot help but reach the conclusion that there is a large element within British society that suffers from a collective form of a deep, Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).

    (Source: http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com)

    NPD is an all-pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behaviour), a need for admiration or adulation and lack of empathy and present in various contexts.

    Five (or more) of the following criteria must be met so I invite you to mentally tick all those criteria that you think the British Government/Media satisfies …

    • Feels grandiose and self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents to the point of lying, demands to be recognised as superior without commensurate achievements);

    • Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion;

    • Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions);

    • Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation – or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (Narcissistic Supply);

    • Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favourable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations;

    • Is “interpersonally exploitative”, i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends;

    • Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of others;

    • Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same about him or her;

    • Arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted.

  10. Training Day says:

    Oh, I do love the irony of contributors to the Daily Mail whining about intolerance. The liberal tribune for which you write, Chris, supported Mosely’s Blackshirts in the 1930’s, and described Herr Hitler as a ‘friend of Europe’.

    Presumably though, support for Mosely’s Fascists and Hitler doesn’t constitute ‘extreme nationalism’ in your book.

  11. Juteman says:

    The No side seem to have quite a few professional ‘victims’.

  12. HulloHulot says:

    “I don’t mean any of this to sound self congratulatory.”

    Oh, Deerin, deary me.

  13. Chic McGregor says:

    In 2019 Alex Salmond, will be, funnily enough, 65. I wonder if he has already contemplated retirement then, which would be after one term as Scottish Prime Minister if the SNP won the SGE and he was still leader?

    If so, could that be made known? How would the slobbering bray of attack dogs spin that one?

  14. William Duguid says:

    Leave it. ‘e’s not worth it!

  15. Chic McGregor says:

    P,S. sorry I’ve done that wrong thread thing again.

  16. Alan MacD says:

    ”Um, it’s not a “pseudonym”, you dolt. I don’t write articles under that name, I use my own. It’s like saying the Daily Mail is your “pseudonym”. Still, bad news to learn that I’m “ageing” – is this happening to anyone else? – and quite surprising news to discover that I’m still a video game journalist, when as far as I can recall I haven’t written professionally about videogames in about three years.”

    Funniest thing ive read all day.

  17. Gordon Hay says:

    @Paul

    “Who cares what the Daily Mail or Guardian print hardly any Scots read them anyway.”

    Wish that were so but the DM is the third best-selling daily in Scotland (behind the Sun and Record), with circulation above that of the combined totals for the Herald, Scotsman and “Scottish” Express.

    Much as we might like to, we can’t ignore their output.

  18. Richard says:

    Rev

    Any chance you would write a piece for the grauniad? You would have problems with links but it would be good to get this a bit more mainstream. After all if the mail can syndicate to the grauniad..

    They have a spare cif going. It could be fun (for me if nobody else)

  19. msean says:

    Is the guy in the hoodie the Unionist or the Nationalist? I can’t tell at first glance.:neutral:

  20. M4rkyboy says:

    What a biscuit-arsed wee prick this laddie is.Grow a pair son.

  21. HandandShrimp says:

    I did say that he had been tasked to prove that BT stood for Bitter Traitor and that he had excelled 🙂

    However, his article started off by being offensive about Nationalists. Seems Chris can give it but can’t take it. Never an attractive trait.

  22. DougtheDug says:

    All the insults listed here appear to have been taken from the reprint of his article in the Guardian not from twitter.

    Interestingly the “heap of nauseating shite” comment was written by a commenter called “Schrodingers Cat” who identify themselves in the same comment as Yorkshire born.

    The one insult that the Daily Mail have missed is the one where he describes independence supporters as, ‘kilted bum-barers who bellow “freedom” whenever an English person hoves into view.’

  23. muttley79 says:

    @Training Day

    ‘Oh, I do love the irony of contributors to the Daily Mail whining about intolerance. The liberal tribune for which you write, Chris, supported Mosely’s Blackshirts in the 1930?s, and described Herr Hitler as a ‘friend of Europe’.

    Presumably though, support for Mosely’s Fascists and Hitler doesn’t constitute “extreme nationalism” in your book.’

    The Daily Heil unfortunately do not do self awareness! :D: Seriously we should not rise to their bait. Instead rip the piss out of them. They are panicking because there is no positive case for the Union, and they are being found out big time.

  24. SquareHaggis says:

    Bilverus maybe?

  25. Bingo Wings Over Scotland says:

    Stu, you may be ageing but at least you live down south. Spare a thought for those of us who live in Scotland and are ageing faster than the rest of the UK.

  26. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “All the insults listed here appear to have been taken from the reprint of his article in the Guardian”

    Curiously, I can’t find the Mail original in PressDisplay.

  27. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “They have a spare cif going. It could be fun (for me if nobody else)”

    I think CIF pieces have to be suggested by readers, not the prospective author. So off you go 😀

  28. sneddon says:

    Deerin an example of the Empire Loyalist mind set. ‘Moral duty’ poor chap should maybe open his eyes and mind to the reality of what the UK did to a quarter of the world and what it is currently doing to its own people. I hope to see his face collaspe after we vote YES. Will we get an article from Mr Deerin about ‘moral duty’ then?

  29. DougtheDug says:

    Curiously, I can’t find the Mail original in PressDisplay.

    At the bottom of the Guardian article it says:

    This is an edited extract of an article that first appeared in the Scottish Daily Mail

    The original may never have been online if it was only published in Scotland. I tried searching on the Daily Mail site but I couldn’t find it either.

  30. seoc says:

    “Our” 300 year old Union?

    Go and have a look at its formation and who actually benefits from this charade.

  31. HandandShrimp says:

    Can you comment on this over at the Mail. I can’t find it in that mess they call a web site. Who designed their search engine? Flogging is too good for them.

  32. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

    Having brought us comprehensively up to speed on that rather trivial aspect of the referendum debate I look forward to Chris Deerin’s trenchant analysis of the content of other online manifestations of the counter-arguments to Better Together.

    Such as a careful and objective round-up of the work done by such sites as this one, Derek Bateman’s (believe he’s ageing too – doesn’t this phenomenon just seem to have a way of catching up with journalists! Must be all that thinking they do, eh Chris?), Newsnet, Bella C, etc.

    And for starters, would he like to give his presumably astonishingly youthful view on what it is that’s being offered in recognition of the fact as he sees it “that the Union needs updated for the 21st century”. (And what it is that has been happening lately that makes him realise this? A long process of revaluation down there at the other gilded end of the “rock” of which he speaks? I hardly think so.)

    Chris is staring too much into the gutter: methinks he needs to raise his sights.

  33. msean says:

    Sounds like someone who might want to read the nationalist poison that is Mr Patons’ recently covered book for a new perspective of Scotlands’ situation instead of the scary hopeless case portayal that is the view from London.

  34. Ken500 says:

    Load of nonsense, who are they and who cares.

    What some folk would do for a bit of cheap publicity.

    Who’s Chris!

  35. Ken500 says:

    The Guardian up to some cheap tricks

    New news?

  36. iain taylor (not that one) says:

    He’s ill informed. I’m not a thinly disguised thug. No disguise at all….

  37. Dorothy Devine says:

    Gee! and I thought my wee bit Shakespeare was apposite too, I didn’t think the bard would be considered offensive!

  38. Vincent McDee says:

    Exercise in Futility despite the “agent provocateur” self/inflicted tag.

    “Aggresive prodding cause reaction” should the reference be.

  39. Marcia says:

    The MSM journalists seem to have very thin skins. How many of those ‘online yobs’ are actually agent provocateurs from the No side?

  40. Ken500 says:

    Lake Como looks beautiful!

  41. Doug Daniel says:

    Wow, apparently we’re all unreconstructed socialists. Who knew?

    I bet he won’t be putting that in the Grauniad version.

  42. Geoff Huijer says:

    Unionist tactics.

    Stir up a hornet’s nest then moan when they get stung.

    Still, at least they haven’t turned the Saltire
    into a Nazi flag…oh wait…

  43. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The original may never have been online if it was only published in Scotland. I tried searching on the Daily Mail site but I couldn’t find it either.”

    PressDisplay is an archive of the PRINTED paper (or more precisely, the digital edition thereof). Stuff that isn’t on the Mail website can usually be found there if you know any of the article text (eg “kilted bum-barers”).

  44. Iain says:

    Interesting that Deerin’s barely concealed self congratulation centres on English historians and a (more than likely) English ex-cabinet minister bumming him up to Downing St. Despite his return to his wee bit hill and glen, the only validation worth having still needs to come from UK central, i.e. London.

  45. proudscot says:

    I assume from the whining sanctimonious tripe produced by this excuse for a journalist, that he has obviously never read any of the CyberBritNat comments in the English version of his paper?

  46. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Can’t wait to hear Margaret Curran’s speech today, appealing to Scotland’s wimmin.

    In the meantime, anyone else who’s yearning to see her in action can enjoy this fantastically bizarre YT video, featuring still images of Magrit and unidentified others. Enjoy the wonderful music, but beware – there are some close-ups.

    For some unfathomable reason it’s only had 15 views – let’s make it go viral.

  47. HandandShrimp says:

    Actually, with Ice Ages, Space Stations on the Moon and “An strange rock” on Mars the Mail is morphing into the National Enquirer ….obviously the latter isn’t quite so offensive politically.

  48. Krackerman says:

    To quote one source – “Chris Deerin was Head of Comment at Telegraph Media Group, 2008-2013. He was previously political editor of the Daily Record and executive editor of Scotland on Sunday. He is now a writer and communications adviser, based in Edinburgh and London.”

    To quote another view on this whole article and what it’s spawned… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA

  49. heedtracker says:

    The Guardian CIF has loads of brilliant Btl YES readers, Scottish and English, with all kinds of progressive and democratic info/opinion, so it’s no wonder far right vote no liggers like lord foullkes and this guy hate them so much.

  50. Bubbles says:

    I’d be proud to wear a Cybernetic badge.

  51. Bubbles says:

    O/T – I hate Android keyboards!

  52. Krackerman says:

    I like the threatening picture of the laddie with the scary hoodie …… and a pink laptop. 😀

    It’s almost like they can see me 😀

  53. K1 says:

    He has chosen to use the btl comments that suit his argument. The reality is that most comments btl tend to be back and forth between well kent commentors, who are very well versed in the nuances of the debate.

    The minute you use the term ‘cybernat’ in any serious context, you’re revealing your own position. Your own prejudice. Unfortunately for him, a lecture on morality in terms of how the debate should unfold after his original baiting article: where he airs his rather oversimplified, somewhat childish and thoroughly bereft of rational argument for remaining part of the uk, was as transparent as glass to the seasoned btl commentors.

    That he now chooses to pick comments that align with his own prejudice merely confirms his ulterior agenda: his mind is made up and he attacks the viewpoint of others with a different view, not because he has a clearer argument for the union, rather because his sense of identity is under threat.

    How come “by saying that the Yes campaign was ‘ struggling to convert the greater mass of Scots into kilted bum-barers who shout “freedom” whenever an English person hoves into view’ ” is now characterised as humour? That was baiting. It is poison atl. That commentors object to this does not make them ‘cybernats’. That one paragraph alone revealed the writer’s less than reasoned approach to the debate.

    If at times btl is rough and less than calm, is it really any wonder with such offerings? As for the ‘victim’ headline, I’d just like to say…you started it! (…sob, sob…). Sigh…

  54. Ken says:

    This isn’t unexpected, or new. The one aspect of this debate the unionists can’t control is the online discussions. So the obvious recourse is to paint us all as blue faced nutters, screaming about those f’n English at every opportunity.

    This of course ignores some of the vilest abuse I’ve ever seen towards individuals being posted by cyberbrits, which is totally bypassed by our wonderful British press.

    I fully expect the Courier’s Jenny Hjul to follow up on this so-called story, as it’s been a regular part of her input.

    Incidentally, the Courier doesn’t allow guest comments any more and you can only participate if you allow them access to your account. Is this normal practise?

    We have the best arguments on all fronts and the best people putting them forward. Trench warfare is the NO camp’s only hope. It’s going to get a lot dirtier before September, but don’t allow them to drag us down to their level.

  55. Chic McGregor says:

    To get serious for a moment. Here is an important correction to an earlier error of mine. Apparently Ally D. is better known as this animal than the badger in the previous vid.

  56. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Have now tracked down the original Mail piece, btw. Seems at a quick glance pretty much identical to the Guardian version, despite their claims that it was an edited extract.

  57. Clootie says:

    Do cybernats have a head office? Dues Alex issue daily briefings?

    Why was I missed off this distribution list.

    It highlights the quality of their journalism that they believe in the myth of organised cybernats. It’s more akin to following the natural flow of change.

  58. boglestone says:

    I’d imagine the Mail CIF for this story would have less of an “unreconstructed socialist” feel to it. More “unreconstructed racist”.

  59. I’m game for a “Proud Cybernat” badge, Dick. Perhaps we should consider raising the humble but voracious midge to its rightful place alongside the lion rampant and the unicorn in out national iconography. We could even adopt our own Cybernat Battle Anthem:

    Chorus
    The midgies, the midgies, I’m no gonnae kid ye’s,
    The midgies is really the limit,
    Wi teeth like pirhanas, they drive ye bananas,
    If ye let them get under yer simmit!

    The Lord put the Garden of Eden on earth,
    And it’s north of the Tweed, we believe,
    Ay, Scotland’s the place, and the whole human race,
    Started off with MacAdam and Eve!
    In six days or under, he finished this wonder,
    Except for the Forth and Tay Bridges,
    Then always a bloke for a practical joke,
    He made Scotland the home of the midgies!

    Chorus

    Back in 1314, the proud Edward was keen,
    To take Scotland into his care,
    But he made a U-turn when he reached Bannockburn,
    Just a few weeks before Glasgow Fair!
    For the midgies let loose by King Robert the Bruce,
    Straight into the English they tore,
    So they ran off in tears, and for six hundred years,
    They’ve been blocking the A74!

    Chorus

    Now never forget, when the sun’s going to set,
    And the midgies arise on Loch Eck,
    Like the vampires you see, played by Christopher Lee,
    They will give you a pain in the neck!
    You can smack them and whack them; in vain you’ll attack them,
    For they know every move that you make,
    If you manage to kill yin, another half million,
    Are ready tae come tae the wake!

    Chorus

    Now Torquil the piper’s a giant of a man,
    With a sporran as long as your arm,
    And in Oban he’s known, for the sound of his drone,
    And a pibroch of real highland charm!
    But they’re sighing and sobbing, the ladies of Oban,
    For Torquil is not what he was,
    Since a midge in Glenbranter got hold of his chanter,
    And carried it off in its jaws!

    Chorus.

  60. david says:

    it feels like this offensive man has been a tad taken aback by reprisals online to his sycophantic insulting comments on the millions of people in scotland who back non dependance. i think he is not used to this reaction, i wonder if he would say the same nasty insults when face to face with an independence supporter?

  61. Betsy says:

    @Ian Brotherhood,
    That Margaret Curran video is a work of splendid lunacy. Have you any notion at all what the purpose of said bizarre clip is? I’ve watched it twice and I’m as baffled as when I started.

  62. Dick Gaughan says:

    Roddy Macdonald says:
    “I’m game for a “Proud Cybernat” badge, Dick. Perhaps we should consider raising the humble but voracious midge to its rightful place …”

    I think you’re on to something there. If someone with the necessary graphics skill could come up with a laughing midge, it would make a great icon. If it had its wings spread, even better, we could present it to The Rev as an alternative banner icon for WoS. I’ve always felt the midge simply got a bad press.

    BTW, thanks for the words of the song – I think this might have been written by the late Kenneth McKellar, I wouldn’t swear to that but he’s the only person I ever heard sing it. Gets my vote as a new Scottish Anthem.

    (Aside – if you can ever lay hands on it. there’s a hilarious studio outtake of McKellar with, I think, the London Philharmonic, singing the most obscene version I’ve heard of the Ball of Kirriemuir.)

  63. Flower of Scotland says:

    Do you think that he feels any better after this diatribe against citizen journalism ? Do you think the Bitter Together are getting even more BITTER ?
    You’re doing a great job Rev ! And obviously getting great results !

  64. @Ian Brotherhood & Betsy

    Is the poster KY Travel some sort of weird Curran Stalker or something?

  65. handclapping says:

    @Betsy
    IMO it is an indication of the statistical probability that Margaret knew who was Labour’s Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1974. She lied then, what is she doing today?

  66. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Betsy –

    ‘Splendid lunacy’ sums it up nicely.

    Maybe it’s a stalker of some kind – nowt queerer than folk. No idea who did it, or why, and the random appearance of people getting married etc is mildly sinister.

    But credit where it’s due – the music is superb.

  67. @ Dick

    At the risk of upsetting the Rev. This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y64uWjtSKAo

    Aye, I got the Midgie Song lyric from Mudcat where it’s credited as sung by Kenneth McKellar, but no definitive authorship. I’ll get in touch with Stuart Bremner and see if he can come up with a suitable midgie – he’s an arty type.

  68. thejourneyman says:

    Yes voters get the same treatment as immigrants and benefit claimants. You take a handful of comments from the most extreme pro independence supporter and a big brush then you tar all pro independence people with said brush. When your finished you have created what passes for right wing British national journalism thereby getting other MSM outlets to peddle you pish.
    Your own judgemental and in some instances down right offensive comment is ignored and supported as your view is accepted as informed and correct because it’s already mainstream, job done!
    Sorry Chris you are out of date, out of touch and out of your depth. Apologies for late post been out canvassing for Yes this rainy Saturday morning.

  69. Papadocx says:

    Magrit broadcasting her diatribe to the electorate of easterhouse, pure unadulterated rubbish, misinformation and bile from an “honourable MP”. How can anybody have any belief or trust in this chancer, people actually vote for this woman to look after their interests, heaven forbid.

    Darling, Lamont, Foulkes, Hague, Alexander, Brown, Davidson, etc. it just goes on and on, it’s like looking into the abyss, and full of automatons pre programmed for talking shit. How can any normal thinking person take this lot seriously and more worryingly believe them. The mind boggles, maybe we are to stupid to run our own wee country!

  70. Stuart Black says:

    Just posted this on ‘You tell us’ on CiF.

    “How about commissioning Stuart Campbell, the journalist who runs Wings over Scotland, to write a piece, perhaps in response to Chris Deerin’s yelps of outrage about so-called cybernats?

    I guarantee it would be entertaining, fully linked, and best of all, factual.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/17/you-tell-us?commentpage=2

    Jump over and give it a few recommends, and they might just consider it. Unfortunately a few hundred comments before me, but you’ll find it on page 2 of the comments, under mafiastolemyguitar.

  71. Dick Gaughan says:

    @Roddy Macdonald

    I’ll get in touch with Stuart Bremner and see if he can come up with a suitable midgie – he’s an arty type.

    Look forward to seeing what he can come up with.

    The McKellar clip is the very one – haven’t heard it in at least 20 years. I’d forgotten he cracked up towards the end – the idea of him getting all these po-faced London orchestral types playing it is superb.

    Sorry for being O/T, folks and Rev, but it’s pishing down out there and Hibs are getting gubbed 3-0 by St Mirren. I’m glad I was too tired to go to the game.

  72. Boorach says:

    My moral imperetive Mr Deering is to voteYes.

    Yes to providing free personal care for any aging relatives you may have.

    Yes to providing free bus passes for any aging relatives you may have.

    Yes to providing free tertiary education for any children you may have.

    Yes to ensuring that you and yours are never affected by the invidious bedroom tax.

    Yes to ensure that you and yours receive free medical care and are not required to pay for any prescription medicine they may require.

    Yes to providing free childcare for those who wish it.

    But mostly Yes to ensuring my country is always governed by the government it elects

  73. creigs1707repeal says:

    The new strategy–lure us into a hate-fest. Baiting, pure and simple. Don’t fall for it people. Time to keep the heid.

  74. Andy-B says:

    Does anyone with even a modicum of sense take the Daily Mail seriously, I think not.

    Cybernat, cabernat, what other derogatory nicknames will Scots who wants independence be called before September 18th. I suppose its an old psychologically ploy, name your opposition with some nasty type name, and it makes it much easier to denounce them.

    O/T I see the Daily (drivel) Record, in its Record View, praise the UK Governments whitepaper. The Record View calls the 100 page piece, impressive, comprehensive, adding that it will have devastating consequences for the SNP, and a yes vote.

    If memory serves me I recall the same column call the SNP whitepaper a hefty tome, no words like impressive or comprehensive, were used.

  75. @ Stuart Black Here’s a link direct to your post on Guardian CiF:

    http://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/30943623

    Needless to say, I’ve recommended it.

    @ Dick

    Glad to be of service. Without knowing it, you’ve been of service to me on my blog:

    http://logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/wings-waffle-about-lgbt-issues.html

    Sorry I missed you at Leith FC the other week. Hope to see you soon. I’ve just heard there’s a grand singing session going on in the Captain’s Bar on S. College St so I’m off out.

  76. creigs1707repeal says:

    Chris (if you’re reading this), how many of these Cybernats are actually GCHQ shit-stirrers? Or is it beyond Westminster to stoop to such levels? Have you checked? We deserve to know.

  77. liz says:

    Of course what they really can’t stand is that they have no control over the internet – they can’t cover up lies.

    They know the Indy debate is being won on the net and therefore they have to try to demonise us.

    This is where lots of us have had our education in Britsh politics and it’s not a pretty sight.

    Without all the info available on the net I would never have found out about Lab in Scotland’s control over the media particularly the BBC

  78. DougtheDug says:

    Have now tracked down the original Mail piece

    Was it ever on-line and open for comment or is the “Cybernat Victim” piece based entirely on the Guardian’s comments?

  79. Andy-B says:

    Women don’t want empty chat up lines from politicians, seeking their support, in the independence referendum.

    Those words were spoken by Margaret Curran, of all people, Margaret Curran went on to say women aren’t impressed with partisan bickering.

    Unbelievably Margaret Curran finished with, yes women want passion principle and commitment, but they also want an honest debate.

    Source Glasgow Evening Times.

  80. Jimbo says:

    Mr Deerin insinuates that YES voters are immoral and are ‘kilted bum-barers who shout “freedom” whenever an English person hoves into view’.

    Some-one wrote…

    ‘If we vote YES @chrisdeerin will presumably head back South… do we need any other reason to vote YES?’

    … in an attempt to add a bit of humour, and Deerin takes offence. Lol

  81. Stuart Black says:

    Thanks Chris!

    Would love to see the comments below a piece by Rev Stu…

  82. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Unbelievably Margaret Curran finished with, yes women want passion principle and commitment, but they also want an honest debate.”

    I agree. “Yes women” do want those things 😀

  83. Michael says:

    Listen folks, the problem with Deerin’s article is this, nearly everyone in Scotland knows at least one Yes campaigner. Many also know someone who is an SNP member. They know they are decent folk who contribute to their communities, have jobs, look after their gardens, run the local shop, deliver the meals to the old folk, work in the bank, and have a great passion for their country, etc.

    When you attempt to vilify Yes supporters or Scottish Nationalists in the way Deerin does you are bound to fail because the claims don’t tie up with people’s real life experiences. They don’t and can’t recognise the stereotypes and caricatures that Deerin and others construct. It’s possible to single out groups that most people don’t have personal contact with and carry out a witch hunt but with indy supporters it doesn’t work because it is completely contrary to real lived experience. It’s a major flaw in their communications strategy – they imagine because they are consumed with hate for us that everyone else is. But for most folk in Scotland, even firm No supporters, indy folk are just members of their family, their friends and folk in the community. All the evidence suggests that people trust folk they know above what they read in the papers.

    Deerin’s claims don’t stack up to people whose experience of indy supporters is of the lovely caring home help, the nice guy at the garage, their own son at university, that really lovely SNP councillor who always comes to the playgroup meetings. Deerin shows how completely out of touch the No campaign is, how unable it is to deal with contemporary culture and how flawed its communications strategy is. For many people below a certain age whinging that someone was nasty to you on the internet will elicit a big laugh.

    We should be pleased that Deerin continues to show how utterly ignorant he is about the political and social culture of the present day. It is yet another sign that the No campaign has learned nothing from its previous failures. It thinks it can do to us what it has done to gypsies, Romanian immigrants and countless other marginalised groups. It can’t because unlike these others we are everywhere, we are in every street in every town, every workplace, every family, every church, every pub, every island, every county, every sports club, every football ground.

    We run every type of business, we occupy positions high and low, we are nurses and drivers, mums, dads, teachers, welders, cyclists, runners, landlords and tenants. They can shout and rant and whinge and moan but they are talking to themselves and no-one else.

  84. Stuart Black says:

    Oh god, when I said thanks Chris, I of course meant thanks Roddy.

    Doh!

  85. Patrick Roden says:

    “and the random appearance of people getting married etc is mildly sinister”

    Eh? I sat here and thought to myself:

    ‘Goodness Mags was actually a bit of alright when she was younger, it must have been all these years lying and smearing that turned her so ugly’ 🙂

  86. I just searched Twitter for ‘kilted uncle tom’ and it returned no results.

    Is the Mail perhaps just making some of these alleged tweets up?

  87. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Roddy
    There is probably a couple of thousand verses to the Ball of Kirriemuir by now. Perhaps a definitive version should be collated.
    “O, the village fairmer he wis there
    Sickle in his haund
    Everytime he birled roond
    He circumcised the baund “

  88. No result on searching Twitter for ‘Genuine Tory ("Quizmaster" - Ed)’ either.

  89. liz says:

    @Michael – well said.
    I was thinking something of the same but you have put it more elegantly than I could.

  90. DougtheDug says:

    Scots Renewables:

    You’ll find all the comments here on the Guardian.

  91. Doug,

    If they are comments below the line on the Guardian article then why has the Mail represented them as tweets?

  92. We’d better not start hijacking the comments with Ball of Kirriemuir verses or the Rev will excommunicate us.

  93. Andy-B says:

    I agree “Yes women do want those things.”

    But does Margaret Curran want them, and the Better Together camp that she represents, I think not.

    The truth isn’t in the BT camps best interests, ergo it is in my opinion a hypocritical statement by Margaret Curran.

    Why say you want the truth so women can decide, when you’ve no intention of actually providing it. Therefore its women who lose again.

  94. HandandShrimp says:

    I think most of these are from the 1,300 plus comments on the Guardian. I certainly used the term Bitter Traitor as a variation on BT although I didn’t call him a bitter ("Tractor" - Ed). Uncle Tom was certainly used (but not kilted as far as I can recall). Drivel, jingoistic, nonsense, juvenile, vomit inducing, cringe worthy, emotional bilge and so on were all also prominent. In fact it got a right kicking on the Guardian away from its natural home of Elgar and sticking it to the immigrants on the Mail.

  95. joe kane says:

    Presumably Chris Deerin reckons the commenteers on the Daily Mosley threads are an example of civilised debate and a beacon of his beloved “Britishness”, whatever that is.

    I think it’s fair to say, without a word of exaggeration, that DM commenteers are the most famous bunch of online extremist loonies in the UK. If they aren’t then I’m sure the well-informed denizens of WOS will correct me.

    Of course, not to be outdone, the pseudo-journalism of the Daily Mosley can be even more offensive and extreme than the actually loony-bin commenteers that inhabit their online threads (see Exhibit A below), which is saying something.

    Exhibit A.
    Example of the Daily Mosley plagiarising Nazi “arbietsschau” propaganda demonising sick patients and disabled people –
    Workshy map of Britain revealed: Thousands of incapacity benefit claimants found to be capable of working
    http://archive.is/Bd9xs

    ps
    The DM obituary of Oswald Mosley described him as a “much maligned and much misunderstood political giant of his era”, that’s even after we know Mosley and his BUF were being secretly bankrolled by Hitler and Mussolini and would have ceased to exist without it. Maybe this is an example of what DM scribbler Chris Deerin means when he refers to “Britishness”, that much misunderstood term.

  96. Patrician says:

    Stu, completely agree with the tag on the first picture. Using those words does no one any favours and can so easily be spun back against us.

  97. Les Wilson says:

    Ian Brotherhood says

    It is not going viral as, well, she almost looks human! How they managed to get so many photo’s with her mouth shut, must be a Unionist conspiracy though.( very difficult to achieve naturally!)

  98. Les Wilson says:

    Roddy Macdonald says

    I had a good laugh at this, well done!

  99. DougtheDug says:

    Scots Renewables:

    why has the Mail represented them as tweets?

    They didn’t want to mention the Guardian?

  100. Michael says:

    If you want to know whey Deerin is barking up the wrong tree and bound to fail you need to think how the demonisation of single mums is no longer possible. As the phenomenon of unmarried motherhood spread from the underclass to the middle class it wasn’t any longer possible to sustain the attack on them because at that point everyone started to have personal experience of the condition and didn’t recognise the stereotype. Same thing happened in the LGBT community. It’s fine to be unpleasant about ‘poofs’ when you don’t know any but when your brother comes out it gets a little more complicated – this actually happened with my partner. That’s why attacking nats doesn’t work because everyone knows one.

  101. john king says:

    Gordon Hay says
    “Much as we might like to, we can’t ignore their output.”

    Watch me!

  102. I had the same thoughts about language, and this exchange, before reading this post:

    https://twitter.com/DavidJFHalliday/status/424575552737914880

  103. Michael says:

    Lots of Mail readers agree with article composed of neo-imperialist ding-battery. Wow, successful communications strategy.

  104. Scarlett says:

    He thinks the ‘UK is a force for good in the world.’ Dear God. I think he needs to stop reading the Daily Mail and read a few actual books about what the UK has been up to around the globe in the last 40 odd years.

  105. Michael says:

    Ins’t it a bit like writing an article for the Scots Independent on how school children should learn more Scottish history, receiving lots of positive feedback and thinking you’ve achieved something.

  106. Betsy says:

    @Ian Brotherhood & Roddy,
    Brace yourselves. I have found another creepy Curran tribute video. Same pictures but with a different and funnier soundtrack.

  107. MochaChoca says:

    No death threats I presume? or he’d have spunked them all over this response.

    Cybernats just aren’t what they used to be!

  108. Dal Riata says:

    What a dickwad that Chris Deerin is! (Aye, you, Chris Deerin, since you’re bound to reading what us ‘Cybernats’ are saying about your latest bout of literary diarrhoea.)

    Oh, how brave and courageous you are, sir, to go forth into the world of investigative and seriously newsworthy journalism such as you do… NOT!

    Writing a piece of patronising, insulting, offensive and disparaging clickbait-dressed-as-an-article, then getting all faux-outraged and whiny when people complain (which was, of course, the whole ‘point’ of your original piece) or bang you to rights is more akin to the behaviour and attitude of a spoilt brat of a child than that of an adult who writes for the ‘big papers’. Either give it up son, or grow a pair.

    This kind of trash is what now passes for journalism in the UK press by those whose agenda it is to denegrate Scotland and its people who may have the audacity to even be considering removing themselves from the decaying, fetid pile of corruption and mismanagement that is Westminster and the British Establishment. The smell of fear is becoming overwhelming.

    It is the end of days for the Empire… And the early days of a better nation.

  109. john king says:

    Krackerman says
    “It’s almost like they can see me “

    Never heard of GCHQ?

    They can!

  110. Taranaich says:

    To make things clear at last: the reason you perceive Cybernats to be unwilling to “hear the other side” is the exact same reason the scientific community does not read scientific papers on Flat Earth theory. It is not being unreasonable to reject the indefensible, and it is not being unfair to ignore the unsupportable. It’s understandable: humans are an emotional and irrational species, and when we do things a certain way for long enough, there will be some who wish to continue with the old system even when a demonstrably superior one is discovered: it’s why some countries still use metric instead of imperial. Change is hard, but there comes a point where you have to acknowledge that enough is enough. Britain is obsolete: a No vote is a vote for obsolescence.

    By all means let’s have a robust debate over the next eight months. Let’s test each other’s arguments, call out rubbish when we see it, rib and tease each other, put our case as passionately and as eloquently as we can.

    But let’s also remember that, whatever our view, we all inhabit the same little section of rock at the top end of the British Isles, and will continue to do so.

    You’ve got your referendum – let’s try to keep it civil.

    Here’s the thing, Chris. I don’t doubt you’re reading this, on account of the fact you’ve clearly read the previous post on Wings and the comments therein.

    My grandfather reads the Scottish Daily Mail. I’m of the personal opinion that the Mail has, in the past and in the present, published some of the most shockingly offensive, harmful, and toxic editorials I’ve ever read in a newspaper, several of which contribute to actual, measurable harm to the most vulnerable people in society. But there’s little I can do to change his mind: he’s read the Mail for decades, and given that it’s the cheapest and the closest to his own viewpoint, I doubt this will happen.

    I do my best to explain to him the context of several Mail articles. Just a few days ago, he was outraged that “Salmond” was planning to introduce marriage equality into Catholic school curriculums, purely because one article said “Catholic schools COULD be forced to teach pro-gay marriage lessons”. Last year, he was apoplectic when the paper revealed that Salmond “released” hundreds of rapists, murderers and other violent criminals onto the streets – somehow neglecting to mention that this was a result of the SNP’s abolition of early release, thus turning what was actually a story of prisoners being released *later* than they should into one that gives the exact opposite impression.

    My grandfather knows I’m involved in the anti-independence campaign: he’s turned around, because the one thing he hates more than Salmond (despite demonstrably agreeing with nearly ALL SNP policies, because he’s been Labour so much of his life and cannot understand the idea of the SNP being to the left of Labour) is the Conservatives. Quite why he reads the Daily Mail is beyond me, but there it is. So for the past year I’ve been trying to fill in the gaps left by your colleagues at the Daily Mail, attempting to help him come to an informed opinion.

    What, then, am I supposed to do now that the Daily Mail has branded the “cybernats” as “arrogant socialists” characterised by “vitriolic abuse, bad language and absolute intolerance of alternative viewpoints”? My grandfather is going to read this, and believe that I am one of these cybernats. In choosing only the most extreme examples of criticism of your piece – I notice you didn’t mention James Kelly’s outstanding reply on his blog – you have painted internet commentators as one amorphous mass, treating a person’s right to anonymity as if they had “something to hide” as opposed to simply wishing some privacy, and decided to count Wings Over Scotland – one of the most erudite and indespensible pro-independence sites on the net – among them.

    You have made this very, very personal for me. And I am positive I’m not the only Yes voter who has No family that read the Daily Mail. So you’ll excuse me if I find your calls to “keep it civil” too little, too late, now that you have made an active role in causing the very sort of strife and conflict you purport to reject to take in my household. I’ve been as polite as I can stomach, but you must appreciate how hard it is for you to say on one hand that we should be reasonable, and on the other paint one side as entirely unreasonable.

  111. If those who respond in comments on here are cybernats then I hope you all reply to every online article and it’s various versions via twitter/facebook/youtube/forums etc to educate everyone else reading. You are the best part of many articles and point out their wrongs with credible proof every time, excellent work. Take it to the real world too since you’re all apparently so nasty you may as well spraypaint it all over London to take our message to the real world and out of the digital one. Or just photoshop it to avoid criminality. Keep up the great work, don’t let this nasty chap put any of you down or turn you angry.

  112. john king says:

    Schrodingers Cat is one of us doug he’s ok

  113. croompenstein says:

    They are generally misinformed (by a media determined to maintain the status quo), or uninformed. We don’t have the mass forms of dissemination on-side. It’s up to US to engage with the ‘don’t knows’ and the ‘soft no’s’. ENGAGE – don’t sneer. ENGAGE – don’t badger. Don’t try to BEAT them, try to open their minds. Try to get them to see all the opportunities that independence could bring. DON’T WASTE TIME in fruitless debate with definite No’s. It’s dispiriting and achieves nothing.

  114. handclapping says:

    If you join our gang you will
    slave trade,
    piss of your fellow countrymen in America,
    massacre your own folk at Peterloo,
    invent concentration camps and the death of their inmates
    ethnic cleanse Diego Garcia,
    fail to learn any lessons from the American Civil or the Boer Wars leading to needless slaughter of our own in the Great War,
    claim TINA to the Gold Standard to prolong the Great Depression,
    let a million Irish starve in the Great Famine,
    take the people’s land in the Clearances,
    be the first to practice terror bombing, in Iraq,
    promote rape and torture on the grandchildren of those you bombed in Iraq,
    walk out on Palestine,
    inflict Tony Blair on Palestine
    and all of this while you enjoy what we call Parliamentary democracy but which actually means mob dictatorship.

    This is a moral telling of some reasons why it may not be in our best interests to continue in this Union. It looks as if it is not a force for good in the world.

  115. john king says:

    Clootie says
    “It highlights the quality of their journalism that they believe in the myth of organised cybernats. It’s more akin to following the natural flow of change”

    Let em believe it if it keeps them awake at night 😉

  116. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “My grandfather knows I’m involved in the anti-independence campaign”

    Wait, what?

  117. Morag says:

    Stu, completely agree with the tag on the first picture. Using those words does no one any favours and can so easily be spun back against us.

    This place is like herding cats. Stu has said before he doesn’t want these words but the people who use them don’t remember he said it. It won’t stop till he starts deleting posts. That and deliberately mis-spelling Anas Sarwar’s name.

  118. blunttrauma says:

    From the SNP members handbook 2013 (Letter writing and Social Media).

    “Writing letters to newspapers and the use of social media are becoming increasingly important ways of spreading the SNP’s message. Whatever the subject be positive, be polite, be constructive, be correct and be careful.

  119. Morag says:

    Wait, what?

    Goes with the concept that all the progressive countries have changed to imperial measures and only the reactionary old fogies still use metric….

  120. scottish_skier says:

    Taranaich: “My grandfather knows I’m involved in the anti-independence campaign”

    Rev: Wait, what?

    I just got a high importance flagged e-mail from cybernat central.

    All out assault on Taranaich to commence immediately.

    Came from Salmond’s personal account.

    🙂

  121. Clydebuilt says:

    How many undecided voters read the daily mail, very few I would have thought. Any regular victim of the Daily mail won’t be capable of anything other than voting NO.

  122. Taranaich says:

    “My grandfather knows I’m involved in the anti-independence campaign”

    Wait, what?

    Great, I’m so scunnered at Mr Deerkin’s allegations that he has me saying Yes is anti-independence, Metric is Imperial, Up is Down, Cat is Dog, and Strictly Come Dancing is Good Television

    YOU SEE WHAT THIS DEERKIN ARTICLE HAS DONE TO ME

  123. JLT says:

    Seriously …what?

    I read half way through, and just stopped. This is a whine …nothing more.

    I got to the bit …”I said, in short, that I regard Britain as a force for good in the world, as a beacon to those countries that lack many of the rights we take for granted – a disputatious democracy, freedoms of speech and association, solidarity, fairness, stability and free-standing institutions.”

    Not the best week to come out with that nonsense. Cameron runs to the Russians, who to be quite honest, are quite dodgy. Then we get the ‘freedom of speech and fairness’ …well, you won’t get fairness in the media! The BT mob think they’re being treated unfairly …seriously …pull the other one!

    And he got a wee bit grief! Whoopy-f******-doo! I had a boss, whom when I mentioned I was voting for Independence, literally growled and threatened me, it would be the last thing I would do while I worked for him. My Boss!!! The boy here gets a slagging! …online! …from people he will never …ever …meet! …and he’s greetin’ like a wee lassie.

    Away and grow up!

  124. G. Campbell says:

    Chis Deerin: “I don’t mean any of this to sound selfcongratulatory.”

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    Hugo Rifkind @hugorifkind · Jan 13
    On Scotland and the Union, by @chrisdeerin. Agree with this so vehemently that it’s all but made me a bit teary.

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    Jenny McCartney @mccartney_jenny · Jan 11
    Brilliant piece on the case for the union by @chrisdeerin in Scottish Mail.

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    James Manning @JamesManning4 · Jan 11
    So @chrisdeerin’s essay on Scotland and the Union is terrific; a powerful and positive message in an otherwise depressingly negative battle.

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    India Knight @indiaknight · Jan 11
    *Brilliant* piece by @chrisdeerin about Scotland and the union in the Scottish Daily Mail today.

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    stefanstern @stefanstern · Jan 11
    @AllieRenison @chrisdeerin This is the most powerful thing I’ve read making a clear and simple case for the Union.

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    Damian Thompson @holysmoke · Jan 11
    Just read @chrisdeerin essay for the Mail in Scotland. Makes me weep that we didn’t bully him into writing when he was a DT editor.

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    John McTernan @johnmcternan · Jan 11
    Great to see @chrisdeerin back writing. His Scottish Daily Mail column a compelling argument for the UK – passionate and full of love.

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    Annette Hardy @Annette1Hardy · Jan 11
    @chrisdeerin What a wonderful piece. It should be quoted by the no campaign and it should at least be online so everyone can read it.

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    Max Wind-Cowie @MaxWindCowie · Jan 11
    “the argument for the existence of our United Kingdom is first and foremost a moral one ” @chrisdeerin nearly made me cry. Great piece.

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    Douglas Wight @dougwight · Jan 11
    @chrisdeerin makes a passionate defence of the union in Scot DMail. The wholly negative @UK_Together shd take note.

    Retweeted by Chris Deerin
    Malcolm Robertson @mrobertson_1 · Jan 11
    The inimitable @chrisdeerin has penned a magnificent piece about Britain in the Scottish Daily Mail. Go buy a newspaper…

    Better Together Jesus says:
    http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/022-Lets-Helpe-Jesus.jpg

  125. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Betsy –

    Good find!

    The funky soundtrack is better right enough. Have to wonder – who is making these things? And why has the creator managed to at least partially decapitate Curran in virtually every image? And what is she doing at 1.50 – having a cup-a-soup?

    Sometimes I wish I was still combining crack cocaine with smoking super-strength skunk – that one wee video would provide hours of wonderment.

    @Taranaich –

    I suspect I face very similar probs to yourself re family members who read the Mail. This very evening I had a longish discussion with a close relative who has always read that rag and/or the Express. Trying to get through to them is surreally difficult, and is proof of how mighty these MSM forces are. Don’t give up mister – when the penny drops, as it surely will, it will be worth all the pain.

  126. Thepnr says:

    @G. Campbell

    Strange behaviour to retweet all those comments about himself, he seeks attention and more importantly reassurance that his beliefs are right.

    He is in love with himself and very scared of those that disagree with him.

  127. HandandShrimp says:

    “I don’t mean any of this to sound selfcongratulatory.”

    Sure Chris, sure you don’t.

    http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/569/insp_captkirk_5_.jpg

  128. Michael says:

    Well, it shows how bad their propaganda is when they have to retweet the article as some kind of declaration of their political and emotional values. It’s funny really because its appeal must be so limited. You’d need to be the most stuck in the 1950s, hankering after the days of the Empire relic to find it appealing. Hard to think of anything more out of sync with the zeitgeist.

  129. Midgehunter says:

    Dick Gaughan says:

    “@Roddy Macdonald

    I’ll get in touch with Stuart Bremner and see if he can come up with a suitable midgie – he’s an arty type.

    Look forward to seeing what he can come up with.”

    Hey, hey, hey, be careful what your doing with my wee friends, I don’t want them to get a bad reputation… 😉

    I was however thinking of proposing that a squadron of the Scottish Air Force be called the “Black Midgies” with a roundel on the aircraft side sporting a rampant midge – black on a yellow fond.

  130. Midgehunter says:

    Looks like a flogging is a coming for I have sinned.

    Twice – no more, no less. Twice and twice only (even if it is 02.00 in the night) must thou tap the return key.

  131. Ken500 says:

    Did ‘Chris’ come back for the ‘free’ (paid for by Taxpayers in SCOTLAND) healthcare, education, prescriptions or personal care or just to take the ‘piss’? Aberdeen the OIL capital of EUROPE has been waiting for an essential BY PASS ROAD for over 30 years.

  132. Ken500 says:

    Christopher Deerin makes a lot of people cry. Greeting face/book Laugh or Cry.

    ‘Vacant coupon’, : – ) Wha’s like ye

  133. @Midgehunter

    Sounds like a great name for a helicopter squadron.

  134. Midgehunter says:

    Roddy Macdonald says:

    Sounds like a great name for a helicopter squadron.

    Aye, Midgies to the front, S&R

  135. Tamson says:

    Deerin obviously is working to the well-worn MSN tactic: discredit anything online not from an ‘official’ outlet.

    The target for this sort of stuff isn’t cybernats, it’s people who are on the verge of giving up the spoonfeeding.

  136. The penny drops!

    Anyone whose worked with ‘Roger Frames’ is alright in my book.

  137. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Anyone whose worked with ‘Roger Frames’ is alright in my book.”

    I too have always enjoyed budget games.

  138. Bill McLean says:

    Chris Deerin may like to read this – it,s from the days when I used to read the Scotsman. Dated 8th May 2012 –
    “Dr Mark Shephard of Strathclyde University last month hosted a discussion in the House of Commons – Discussion on Scottish Independence – Politicians versus Publics” Dr Shephard was in the early stages of investigating social media comments on Scottish Independence.
    “The findings based on analysis of online comments under articles on independence,show the vast of majority of posts are anti-SNP/independence and anti-Salmond rather than anti-English/anti-union.
    In terms of language, too, comments about the SNP and independence are much more vitriolic than about the union and UK.” This is so far the only study I’ve seen into media comments on the independence/Scotland/SNP topics and it may be of interest to Mr Deerin since his articles and comments seem to be based on his subjective take on the subjects only! If that is too much for Mr Deerin (he does seem to be a douce wee soul) perhaps he should be directed to the filthy, foul and racist remarks made in 48 pages about Andy Murray, that great “British” sportsman by our more civilized neighbours in the south of this island. This man is supposed to be a journalist – like many in the MSM here, yet he appears to be sensitive to a very high degree – but of course only to one side. Sad article of a man.

  139. Stewart Bremner’s come up with a brilliant Proud Cybernat badge. You can join the Squadron here:

    http://logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/get-your-proud-cybernat-badges-here.html

  140. Dick Gaughan says:

    @Roddy Macdonald
    Stewart Bremner’s come up with a brilliant Proud Cybernat badge. You can join the Squadron here:

    By Christ, the boy works fast! I foresee loads of red faces (red with fury and being made to look like right eejits).

    Let’s see if the BT shower have a sense of humour 🙂

  141. I can just imagine George Foulkes turning the colour of his vermine-edged gown.

  142. Captain Caveman says:

    I think stuff like this just serves to further emphasize the need to keep the back channels open like we do here, i.e. so-called “Cybernats” and “Britnats” talking, disagreeing, debating, laughing, all perfectly pleasant. The language is getting worse from both sides in the MSM; we’ve all got to rub along together once this is all over in a few months, whatever the end result – either way.

    This aspect is actually starting to worry me a lot more than the outcome of the vote itself. I’m not pretending to be any kind of saint, far from it, but shrieks of ‘National Front’ and all the other garbage have gone way too far already IMO. Bottom line, being a committed, passionate Nationalist is perfectly legitimate, just as is being a Unionist.

    The whole thing makes me sad.

  143. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Sounds fine, Captain Caveman but if you can find any insulting language, abusive personalised attacks, demonstrable lies or anything vaguely unacceptable coming from the YES organisation can you give us some examples please?

    It’s well practised tactic to attack somebody and then blame them for fighting. That’s exactly what your post is doing.

  144. Captain Caveman says:

    Sorry you totally misunderstand. I am supportive of YOUR position and am attacking the sentiments of this piece? Probably not worded very well it’s be a helluva day this end, sorry for confusion.



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