The less-deserving pro-independence website

Wings Over Scotland


In the dead of the night

Posted on February 01, 2017 by

This is Conservative MP Dominic Raab, a member of the Brexit Select Committee, speaking on the BBC News Channel’s “Hard Talk” programme at 00.45 this morning. Perhaps imagining that nobody would be watching at such an ungodly hour, it seems he felt able to be unusually candid.

We left the last bit on in order to demonstrate that he was still talking about Scotland as well as Ireland. (He went on to recite the usual boilerplate about all leaving together as the UK etc etc, you can watch the whole show for yourself on iPlayer.)

But let’s just get that key early exchange down in writing for the record.

STEPHEN SACKUR: There is a question of whether in Ireland, and possibly in Scotland too – if Scots got their way – there would be a hard border between those nations of the United Kingdom and England. Will there be a hard border?

DOMINIC RAAB: Look, it terms of with Scotland it would be, I think, wrong as a matter of principle and impossible to enforce. […] We’re not going to erect a hard border. We said that during the referendum campaign, the government says it now.

That’s both highly specific and entirely unambiguous. So the next time some Unionist clown tries to push the line about border posts at Berwick at you and they don’t want to listen to dastardly cybernat types like ourselves, you know where to send them.

Print Friendly

1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 01 02 17 01:56

    In the dead of the night | speymouth

333 to “In the dead of the night”

  1. ClanDonald says:

    Oops, UK Govt accidentally telling the truth.

    They’re getting sloppy. Making mistakes. Just like the tweet from the Scotland Office the other day informing us that England needs £6bn of Scottish utility imports p.a to keep the lights on and the taps running.

  2. manandboy says:

    Dominic Raab telling the truth – no hard border. He’s going to be busy for a while.

    Maybe he fell asleep during the PR briefing.

    Great pick up, Stu.

  3. Rookiescot says:

    I don’t see a problem even if they do have a hard border.
    Currently there exists a hard border between the UK and the rest of the world but no-one seems to bother about that.

  4. Dr Jim says:

    Blow for May, he’ll get slapped down for that, setback for Brexit talks, Theresa May livid, he could get thrown under a bus for mis speaking

    OK I’m away!

  5. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    This little revelation just goes to show that fear of “UK single market” and “hard border” scare tactics in indyref2 is largely groundless. Any time anyone in “BT2” tries it on, just play this clip!

    Lonely old rUK, depleted of precious Scottish resources, will be desperate to trade with anyone. Including us.

    Built on a stack of lies, the Unionist case has become a house of cards, and Brexit is shaping up to blow a real gale…

  6. Stoker says:

    MP Dominic Raab may find himself looking for a new job soon.

  7. Valerie says:

    Yass, nice catch, Rev.

    All those little escape routes and alleys are getting closed off, slowly but surely.

    Its what happens when desperate, incompetent folk are in charge, and the pressure builds.

    Must explain why Ruth is trying to incite riots.

  8. Stoker says:

    Dominic Raab has been reading WOS, very wise indeed.
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/without-frontiers/

  9. Capella says:

    What a monumental waste of time BREXIT is. Why is the energy of all parts of the UK being drained daily to fix something that isn’t broken. of course there won’t be hard borders. That would be stupid.

  10. daisy Walker says:

    i’m looking forward tae the jobs it will create… and if they need volunteers, here’s one

  11. Capella says:

    It’s quite astonishing that there is no mention of the Commons debate on the BBC news front pages on their website. Top item is, once again, Donald Trump. This is followed by 37 news items, none of them remotely connected with the BREXIT debate.

    I’ve preserved it for posterity. Here is what the state broadcaster thinks of what is arguably the most important debate in the UK for decades:
    https://archive.is/Oy6PN

  12. Famous15 says:

    Ruth Davidson is getting impatient for fratricide. She is getting flatulent with impatience.The Tory leader in Scotland Ruth Davidson has a compact with the Daily Mail to fraternise with Labour in Scotland in order to flatten the SNP.

    FFS

  13. manandboy says:

    From very near where I live I can see the peaks of Arran, 52 miles away – on a clear day. But I can’t see the Border which is 69 miles as the crow flies. And I can’t see where this Brexit business is all going to end. I hope someday I’ll see Independence.

    http://tjpeiffer.com/crowflies.html

  14. yesindyref2 says:

    Strange program Hard Talk, I see lots of them but missed this one (busy).

    Dominic Raab – don’t know anything about him, but there are some decent Conservatives buried in the Tory party. Sad really. Some quite often do private campaigns that go against party policy, get support, then cross-party support and make a difference. I vaguely knew one like that through his family.

    Ho hum, where’s my spear and saber again! Bl**dy Tories!

  15. Jim says:

    From Stu’s link to the Scotsman:

    “There are increasingly louder murmurings within the SNP over the Sturgeon’s strategy, and if her own charges are not convinced, then the rest of the country will not be persuaded.”

    Whatever in God’s name is the Sturgeon?

  16. Macart says:

    Oh, that’ll leave a mark in the morning. 🙂

    Politics as it is practised. You ever wonder how different life would be if politicians would be more candid and truthful as a general rule?

  17. yesindyref2 says:

    @manandboy
    Great site, bookmarked. So basically speaking if I shouted loud enough my son would hear me in 10 minutes and my daughter 14 hours, but if I shone a very bright torch they’d both see it at the same time effectively if I was high enough!

    It’s all relative.

  18. yesindyref2 says:

    @Macart
    I think Hard Talk is kind of a vanity thing. It can be the only reason some of these country leader’s face the grilling and insinuated questions they face.

    I find it quite nerve-wracking at times, kind of a sympathy thing for people being cast as villains, and some anger at the bias of the questions which are then not givem time to be answered, but I guess it’s the best thing the BBC do. Maybe the only thing!

  19. Suzanne says:

    Yeah probably washed out and had his guard down after about ten hours or more of debate in the HoC. Good catch, Stu. Not the best time for a grilling – not for him, at least. But we have more evidence, if any were needed, that the unionists are just chucking stuff at us hoping some will stick and frighten the horses.

  20. DerekM says:

    Do not know anything about this guy but i am guessing he is a noobie tory,it was quite excruciating watching a tory forget how to lie,watch as his mind goes blank and searches for the lie only to trick him with the truth,then watch right at the end of the clip he suddenly remembers to fling in the SNP bad bit.

    lol funny as hell.

  21. Breeks says:

    If rUK embraces US food standards, GM crops, steroids and chemical additives, we will need a hard Border to restrict and control contamination of Scottish produce.
    Not only will we have a hard Border, it will be manned 24hrs a day by angry Scottish farmers armed with pitchforks and burning torches.
    Think BSE and Foot and Mouth, and how those temporary situations blighted Scottish produce. US farming practice would be deliberate and permanent, and we shall actually want the ability to protect our farming.
    When push comes to shove, a hard Border may be no bad thing. It depends how long rUK takes to come to its senses.

  22. I did caution the other day that some senior Scottish Tory Grandee should take the packet of razor blades with which Ruth was playing out of her hands before she figured out how to open it and seriously cut herself.
    Too late; by triggering Indyref 2 ‘the SNP’ ,and the MSM and Unionist Establishment manufactured personification of evil, Nicola Sturgeon will unleash fratricide onto the Scottish citizenry.
    Brother will kill brother, sister will kill sister, in a civil war that will end only one way. England will despatch a Peace Keeping force North, suspend Holyrood, and impose martial law on the colony.
    As they drag themselves out of the darkest and maddest January in Tory (Red, Blue and Yellow) history, it is not surprising that they are mentally and physically exhausted, and in their semi stupor will say the first thing that comes into their head, just to get yet another SNP BAD trope out there.
    Dominic Raab will not be allowed out on his own again. The Blue Tories’ Malcolm Tucker is reducing him to tears as we clack here.
    Davidson is way out of her depth now.
    It is getting serious, and Davidson, Rennie, and Dugdale are just not up to it.
    They are third rate back bench parish councillors, and it shows now that the world and his uncle are involved in Scottish politics.
    Nasty wee allusion to civil war from a nasty wee Z listed politician.
    Borders?
    The line to take?
    There will be a semi open border between the North and the South of Ireland; the most powerful semi open border in the whole world. Or some such nonsense.
    Scotland of course will be fenced in by Mother England and all trade and communications with the outside world will be severed.
    That’s if we haven’t killed each other off in Ruth’s civil war.
    What a stupid wee woman she is; no, really.

  23. ian m says:

    Any progress on Ruth Davidson breaking the law at Indy1 ?

  24. jimnarlene says:

    Just as, we always thought.

  25. DerekM says:

    @ ian m

    She is a tory ian all her disgraces are swept under the carpet with a complaint media.

    I mean look how quick they turn on the SNP even making stuff up to smear them with,then we have over 30 Tory MP`s under electoral fraud investigation not that you would know.

    No BBC screaming travesty of democracy tory should resign as Andra`s wig rages in a tantrum,no Daily Mail screaming tory should be sacked in democracy outrage its the immigrants fault,no express tories blasted,slammed,slapped,blow etc etc etc(add your own sound effects i am trying to get them to use zapped but they aint playing lol)

    So no wee Ruthie`s judgement day will come on the day Scotland becomes independent how that will shape itself is pure conjecture.

  26. Swami Backverandah says:

    “Saudi Oil Minister Khalid al-Falih has told the BBC’s Chief International Correspondent Lyse Doucet he is pleased that US President Donald Trump plans to pursue a more fossil fuel-oriented energy policy.

    He insisted he was unconcerned by Mr Trump’s promise to pursue energy independence and said Saudi Arabia had invested billions of dollars in the American oil industry.”

    There’s a Representative of May’s favourite cluster-bomber explaining why May won’t condemn the use of British-made cluster bombs in the Yemen, even though the UN indicates it could constitute war crimes, and why Trump won’t restrict travel rights of Saudi citizens, even though AlQaeda, who arguably perpetrated the largest terror attack on USA citizens,is Saudi based.

    That’s creativity for you. The unholy alliance of Britain, the USA and the House of Saud, not content at championing terrorist bombers, now unashamedly champions global warmers.

    Speak up Ruth. That’s your Party leading the cheer squad.

  27. bjsalba says:

    Stephen Sackur thinks a 94 mile (154 km) border would be “impossible to enforce”. Doesn’t have a very high opinion of our UK Border Force,then, does he? How long was Teresa May in charge of the Home Office? How much did they spend on the E-Borders system before they terminated it?

    Good thing that England doesn’t have the long land borders that European countries have.

    By the way how much of the trade with England is goods in transit from elsewhere? Look at where the major ports are. Look in the shops at where goods are actually made.

  28. ian m @6.26. Ruth was interviewed by the Polis, but there appeared to be no case to answer. We conjectured at the time that Ruth’s defence must have been that she ‘did an Alistair Carmichael’; in other words she lied about knowing that the postal count favoured No, live and in colour on Dumbledor’s BBC Referendum Special at 10.02 pm, just after the polls closed.
    But it was a ‘political lie’, so that’s ok then. She appears to have been lying nevertheless.
    Of course John McTernan ‘politically lied’ during the campaign, by also asserting that the postal votes indicated that No was winning, even before we had gone to the polls. He predicted a 54-46 win for No on Andrew Neill’s daytime Referendum Special, days before we went to the polls. Yet he got the result virtually spot on. Mmm.
    I don’t recall him getting hauled before the Desk Sergeant, does anyone?
    There is no doubt that the postal votes must be more carefully monitored during the Indyref 2 campaign.
    Ruth will be offered a ‘visiting professor’ sinecure by Glasgow Uni when her day of reckoning comes; or Scottish Foreign Correspondent for EBC, because her finger is so on the pulse of the Scottish political scene.
    Then again, Big T might need a portable foot stool.

  29. Brian Powell says:

    Jack Collatin

    I guess as the Orange Order, NF, BNP, SDL, Murdo Fraser and Kenny Farquharson are her fellow travellers, she may have some insider knowledge of what they are up to.

  30. We are doing this through the ballot box, Brian, and it’s killing them. Sorry for the tortuous metaphor.
    It may get to Black Ops status as Brexit bites and England becomes more and more isolated.

  31. Brian Powell says:

    Jack Collatin

    And on this day in 1919, when 60,000 Glasgow workers gathered on Glasgow Green to protest about working conditions, the Brit Government sent in tanks, howitzers, machine guns and 10,000 troops.

    Perhaps Ruthie is having exciting fantasies about tanks.

  32. Julia B says:

    I’m somewhat more curious about the presenter’s choice of words in the question asked – “if Scots got their way”… I’m struggling with that choice of phrase because it seems rather unabmiguously pointing to us having a lack of freedom?

  33. bobajock says:

    Thanks. In the dead of morning for me.

  34. woosie says:

    I’m all for a hard border, if england wants it they can pay.

    Luckily, we build concrete walls for a living, so we can give a good discount given the cause.

  35. BJ says:

    DerekM@5:19

    Iain Banks said it best:

    “I’m not arguing there are no decent people in the Tory party, but they’re like bits of sweetcorn in a turd: technically they’ve kept their integrity, but they’re still embedded in shit”

  36. Nana says:

    Oh dear, I’m thinking Mr Raab will be getting six of the best today. lol

    O/T

    Reluctant to disturb this thread. Morning links on previous one.

  37. DerekM says:

    She is a tory so will probably say she was for independence all along but not an SNP independence and try to run a pretend tory break away party in the Scottish parliament.

    Of course she will fail because her Sith apprentice will stab her in the back like all Sith do,err i mean tories lol

  38. Jamur says:

    I look forward to patrolling our borders on Galloway belties.

  39. robertknight says:

    Come on folks, when does a Tory say anything that remotely resembles the truth?

    Next he’ll be saying that Maggie May is doing a wonderful job as PM.

    Where these b******s are concerned, you can’t single out specific lies in the hope that they’re true, then try to band them about as being anything other than what they are – namely more Tory lies.

    You can’t polish a turd, sorry.

  40. Breeks says:

    Wrong in principle and impossible to enforce…

    But full marks to the Romans for giving it a go.

  41. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Legit question-

    If an Independent Scotland is inside the EU and England is outside of the EU, will Brussels not insist that border controls need to be put in place???

    It has to do with where products where sourced and what taxes and tariffs have been paid on those products.

    It might not be up to Scotland or England whether a border is put in place or not. It might be decided by the EU.

    Or am I completely wrong here???

  42. Les Wilson says:

    Prior to Indy2, Westminster declares there will be the hardest of borders with Scotland, it will be a ten foot wall only open at road points which will be guarded by the SAS.This will definately be the case, we swear it will, hand on heart it will happen.

    They will lose all trade with England, Scotland will in short, suffer greatly.

    After a successful Indy2, Westminster has again been asked when they will start building the wall, and the check point Charlie level of security.The one that was promised to curtail Scottish existance?

    “What wall” says the spokesman.

  43. Macart says:

    RE: Ruth Davidson

    She won’t apologise. No more than Torrance did over his Ulsterisation piece.

    Unionists require fear and intimidation to enforce their union. Its not a union of equals, not a union of mutual benefit, nor is it a union based on trust or understanding. It is a union very much based on one sided necessity.

    Take a wild guess at which party sees the union as a necessity and how much of a union is it, that it requires fear and intimidation in order to survive?

    Ms Davidson is no leader in waiting of the Scottish electorate and her idiotic speech underlines the why of that without any further explanation or example required.

  44. Admiral says:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/01/david-cameron-asked-daily-mail-owner-to-sack-paul-dacre-brexit-bbc-newsnight

    OT, but I wonder if there will be much screeching, squealing, wailing and general gnashing of teeth from the Scottish MSM about this government attempt to silence a journalist (even if it is the Daily HateMail)!

  45. DerekM says:

    @ BJ

    lol Aye and he would be right about that.

    The problem any idealistic young politician faces in England is if they want to be a MP they have the choice of blue or red,where your ideals mean nothing you will do as the whip says and toe the party line.

    Makes you kind of glad we Scots invented the SNP to get away from their insanity 🙂

  46. Les Wilson says:

    In truth, there will never be a hard border between Scotland and England, it just will not happen. While they can threaten now, they certainly cannot afford to lose THEIR sales in Scotland. It would make their finances sooo much worse.

    Economics will rule that descision, they cannot afford to carry this threat out.

    As far as currency is concerned, they will be begging us to use Sterling, but we can do very well without doing so.
    Question would be how many English pounds to a Scottish pound.

  47. Luigi says:

    As we know, blue, red and yellow Tories are well capable of gaffs in broad daylight. They just can’t keep their ugly traps shut. Being cockroaches, they do tend to be more active during the night, however. 🙂

    It does really annoy me that these highly paid dopes get away with slopping around, pretending to have a job (pretending to work), all on hard-working tax-payers’ money. Hopefully, we won’t have to put up with them for much longer.

  48. ScottieDog says:

    It’s ok the establishment press are fantastic at burying such things and reinventing history.

  49. starlaw says:

    will a hard border mean that stuff with union jacks will all disappear from supermarket shelves ?

  50. Greannach says:

    And he was doing so well… on almost every TV show… a rising star… Bye, Dominic…

  51. heedtracker says:

    There’s a massive Scotland/England border now and always has been, well since the might of the Roman Empire got its arse booted out of Caledonia.

    There’s rather a long list of imperial er, invaders that have a stab at invading and taking over Scotland.

  52. Thrawn says:

    Raab is not in the government…he is in a committee to allow parliament to scrutinise Brexit. Therefore as such whatever he thinks while interesting has only limited relevance with regard to what actually might happen.

    And to be clear…nobody wants a hard border…May’s sincerest hope is that she will get a deal that basically keeps border tariffs between EU and UK unchanged and allows her to pick and choose who she allows free movement to (Irish + indy scots) and who she doesnt (everyone else). Unfortunately the EU for very understandable reasons do not want to give her that wish…why would they? So if border tariffs come up and the EU insist free movement of people cannot be cherry picked from, then a hard border becomes inescapable…in NI and indy Scotland….deal with it

  53. Dr Jim says:

    All this reasonable stuff Nicola Sturgeon’s doing is soley designed to look reasonable to the people of Scotland when she knows that London will reject all her demands which makes her reasonableness and efforts to come up with various options for Brexit all the more suspect

    In short, no matter how constructive Nicola Sturgeon tries to be we know what she really wants and we’re not going to co-operate with her

    Only in Yoonworld could Tories justify their own intransigent behaviour by demonising someone else’s good behaviour

  54. Iain More says:

    Breeks says:
    1 February, 2017 at 5:50 am

    “If rUK embraces US food standards, GM crops, steroids and chemical additives, we will need a hard Border to restrict and control contamination of Scottish produce.
    Not only will we have a hard Border, it will be manned 24hrs a day by angry Scottish farmers armed with pitchforks and burning torches.
    Think BSE and Foot and Mouth, and how those temporary situations blighted Scottish produce. US farming practice would be deliberate and permanent, and we shall actually want the ability to protect our farming.
    When push comes to shove, a hard Border may be no bad thing. It depends how long rUK takes to come to its senses.”

    Yup I agree with you 100%. It might even stop the NE Scotland etc being used as dumping grounds for their sex offenders as well if we can stop them at the uhmm “hard border!” We will just have to a better job of it than the Romans did at building hard borders.

  55. galamcennalath says:

    I’m not overly concerned about the form borders do, or don’t take.

    I want Indy, and I want it ASAP.

    My concerns are that the road to Indy is as short, straight, and smooth as possible!

    We need our arguments for Indy to be strong and easily substantiated, and we want anti-Indy arguments to be weak and easily debunked!

    The Rev’s work here captures a nice little statement on the matter of borders to be used as and when. Nice one.

  56. Al Dossary says:

    @DerekM, 8:45am.

    You missed one little piece out Derek – basically to become a blue Tory I’m England you now need to have the backing of the Conservative Friends of Israel. 80% of Tory MP’s are members of the pressure group, and every single one of the newly elected MP last time around was backed by them.

    In fact 10 of the Ruth Davidson part MSP attended a trip last August to Israel sponsored by the Conservative Friends of Israel.

    http://archive.is/c74e0

    The Labour version is hard at work at present trying to recruit members, but they cannot seem to get beyond their current count of 60 sitting MP’S – many of whom were instrumental in the atempted coup last year against Corbyn.

    I am not in any way ant-semitic, but why do we allow this evil nation to even meddle in our country’s politics.

  57. Thrawn says:

    The other ironic assumption about this is that an independent Scotland would absolutely never want to install a hard border…

    For example if all the wet dreams of nationalist fantasists come true and indy Scotland becomes a booming economic paradise with free whisky + shortcake for all (and rUK regresses to an economic wasteland)then without a hard border how long will that last if millions of english economic migrants flood over the tweed….

  58. yesindyref2 says:

    @Thrawn “ then a hard border becomes inescapable…in NI and indy Scotland….deal with it

    Like there is between Italy and Vatican City, France and Monaco, San Marino and …

    … oh, there isn’t one.

  59. yesindyref2 says:

    @Thrawn “millions of english economic migrants flood over the tweed….

    A couple of million young well-off English immigrants, bringing businesses, the prudential parts of the financial market wanting to trade in the EU, manufacturing companies, service comapnies wanting to access the EU?

    Means we’ll be able to cut the pension age back down to 65, and raise the minimum living wage up 50%.

    Good stuff!

  60. heedtracker says:

    Thrawn says:

    then without a hard border how long will that last if millions of english economic migrants flood over the tweed….

    More the merrier! Its the whole point of Scotland running Scotland, good jobs, plenty of money in our pockets, you know, just like what Landan and the south east have luxuriated in since the Snatcher Thatcher era, as Maggie rests not very peacefully in her pyramid on the Thames.

    Just ask Crash Gordo or even present incumbent Kezia, Lab did so much to make the southern bit of teamGB so very very rich, then they turned on poor old Crash too. Unions eh?

  61. Muscleguy says:

    @Thrawn

    If the Brexit agreement has a hard border in Ireland in it the Irish will veto it, as is their right.

    You write like some Brexiter who is utterly ignorant of how the EU works and sees it as a unitary thing. It isn’t. Every single EU nation (not leaving) will have to ratify the Brexit agreement.

    Since the Irish will move heaven and earth for there not to be a hard border in Ireland (they are not in Schengen either) then there will not be one on the Scottish border either.

    Nobody wants one. Raab is saying the sensible thing. A hard border would be on England’s side only and they would pay the whole cost. Just like the Irish border every single tiny farm road would have to plugged. What do you do in Coldstream? It would be a smuggler’s paradise and porous as hell.

  62. msean says:

    ” …if the Scots got their way…”
    You mean the Scots,who live in Scotland,that voted for the SNP,shouldn’t get their way in Scotland? As opposed to,say,people who aren’t the Scots,and who the Scots didn’t vote for, getting their way in Scotland. Democracy,eh?

  63. Greannach says:

    @ Thrawn

    It might be to your benefit to find out how the EU works and how other state relate to one another and their constituent parts. It may come as news to you, but not all states operate like the UK. There are other places in the world, several of which are quite successful, although of course nowhere reaches the dizzy heights of properity reached by the 95-year-old United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland – the longest continuing state in the world.

  64. davidb says:

    The Brits faught hard to get their chemical slop that passes for beer, and the sugary synthetic brown lard that passes for chocolate to be free traded inside the EU. Will those designations still apply once the UK leaves the EU?

    The EU agricultural sector exports processed foodstuffs and imports raw materials. In other parts of the world US food produce is everywhere. In race to the bottom free trade TTIP Britain will we also be flooded with US food?

    Those EFTA countries surrounded by the EU – Norway/ Switzerland – are high cost/high quality markets. But in bad income distribution Britain price is all that a lot of people care about.

    So perhaps it would be better for Ireland and Scotland to have barriers to rUK. We could do without the poorer standards. And how would say English apple producers fare against industrial US apple production? We already have problems with pig production animal welfare standards being higher in the UK than the rEU.

    Then there’s manufacturing. Will the UK get flooded with more cheap Chinese product which does not meet CE standards for free circulation in the EU?

    This is a considerably more complex problem than we even begin to imagine. It cannot be boiled down to soundbites and simplistic slogans.

    The roller coaster ride has barely started.

  65. DerekM says:

    Haha Thrawn old chap you make it sound like it was our idea this hard border no trade garbage,i think you will find in general we indy folks don’t really care either way,if you mad English want to build a wall go for it,i think we will have more important things to build like our countries infrastructure,which for a supposed rich country is in a total mess,not like leafy Kent or London i might add.

    Or we could just leave it like it is just now,but then we Scots are not the people you should be asking about this we have no intention of building a hard border what ever the hell that means.

    I can jump on a plane with a driving licence and be in the republic of Ireland in a few hours ,all UK internal flight category been running for many years,it works well we would both be stupid not to use a tried and tested solution.

    Oh and walls don’t work when you are an island you can just go around them using the sea.

  66. heedtracker says:

    Another teamGB day, another round of The Guardian mocks its Scotland region,

    http://archive.is/0IuTm

    Bazinga, Severin Carrell style.

  67. ronnie anderson says:

    Fratricide fratricide Ruthie must hiv friends in Monsanto, she’s sprayed us overlong wie her shite, noo fratricide’ Is that something like agents Orange.

    Am keeping ma Keflar vest handy.

  68. galamcennalath says:

    Wouldn’t it be interesting to see a stylometric analysis of some of the contributors on here? Who’s who in the Yoon zoo? Or even just patterns in IP addresses.

  69. Breeks says:

    BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:
    1 February, 2017 at 8:40 am
    Legit question-…..”

    I say yes to that, but it really depends on the direction our respective countries choose to take.

    Currently, both Scotland and England have broadly compatible practices and standards in farming, however the more disparate the countries become, the greater the difference, then it follows the need for a border increases.

    The whole point of European harmony is to have compatibility across neighbouring countries so there is reduced need for borders because there is no gravitational pull or influence. Very crudely, you control smuggling by having no reason to smuggle anything, because wherever you go, there’s no profit in it.

    It follows that an independent Scotland remaining in the EU could and would secure ready access to the single market. However, if rUK drew itself away from EU standards and criteria, and reduced regulation to suit a US Trade Deal, then they will obviously add to their problems of getting access to the Single Market. The risk for Scotland could arise if sub-criteria produce or livestock from rUK contaminates Scottish produce, say for example GM crops used in organic foodstuffs, then Scotland could conceivably see its access to EU markets restricted. So, to protect our own interests, we should not be squeamish about having a “hard” Border. As an independent sovereign state, it is our prerogative to have whatever Border we choose on our side of the line.

    One other point, is what is meant by hard Border. In times of disease, such as Foot and Mouth, you would want a border hard enough to stop contagion, a virtual state of lockdown, but at the same time, that is not necessarily incompatible with the free movement of people. So having a hard Border needs to be defined first, before you can approve of it or reject it.

    Issues like these are the meat and drink of Trade negotiations, and a deluge of articles such as these are what the rUK is about to subject itself to when Brexit goes live. Scotland’s issues about a hard or soft border are important, but small beer beside the upheaval the U.K. is facing.

    But we should not paint ourselves into a corner about Borders. Eyes on the prize. KISS!! Keep it Simple Scotland. Sovereignty means WE decide.

  70. heedtracker says:

    David Cameron ‘asked Daily Mail owner to sack Paul Dacre over Brexit’
    BBC Newsnight report claims former prime minister pressed Lord Rothermere to ‘rein in’ editor before EU referendum

    Says Graun. Its the bottom line though, profits are I mean. There’s millions to be made from great British roasters, zoomers and pervs. Ew.

  71. Valerie says:

    @davidb 9.58

    I agree with those sentiments, our clean environment, and it could be cleaner, needs to be protected, as does our food chain.

    I am one of a growing legion of people discovered to be severely allergic to wheat. Wheat is an international commodity traded by the ton, and a vast amount of the baked goods on our shelves contain American wheat.

    American wheat has been hybridised beyond recognition to the plant used in 1930s, and it started post war to feed hungry populations. There were no tests on how these hybrids interacted with our systems, because it was still wheat.

    Research is starting to link up, and find that the hybrid proteins are lodging in all sorts of places like brain, joints etc. It’s obviously different for everyone, but children and weakened immune systems can be susceptible.

    I completely support our SG gov’t stance on no GM. Anyone that knows a bit about Monsanto would be fearful.

    The American people are dying, and sick in droves, due to lack of labelling on food, and the powerful food lobbies getting their way. It’s scary over there.

  72. ronnie anderson says:

    !0.15 European Scrutiny Committee HoC.

    !5th Dec Uks former EU representative Sir Ivan Rogers questioned on a BBC report that Brexit negotiations would take 10 years as reported . Sir Ivan never spoke or gave such a statement to the BBC.

    BBC caught out again in they’re lies.

  73. Fred says:

    A hard border in Ireland is an impossibility nowadays. Who would be brave enough to police it? the wages would have to be mega, & a funeral-plan thrown in!

  74. Thrawn, we’ve no room Up Here!
    We have a land mass greater than England when the isles are included, and there are already 5.4 million of us!
    Ok so England has 58 million hot bedding, but we like our space!
    Well, the Noble landowners who got their vast estates as a reward for forcing their serfs into military service for some king who wanted to take Normandy or Gascony certainly have plenty of space.The rest of us, not so much.
    I recall a BBC 2 documentary about WWI Highlanders returning from the war and being told that there wasn’t enough land to allocate a strippet to each of them to croft, so they were shipped off to the colonies, Australia, New Zealand, Canada. Nearly 500,000 of them; sons of Scotland, our young men, denied the right to farm their own land by the Lords who now doze diurnally in the House of Lards on £300 a day. Plenty of room for the Nobility and rich to venture North to kill animals for fun though, but, mind.
    We will welcome all those who wish to make their lives Up Here. That’s if they can make their way across the Solway in little boats, or escape being strafed in No Man’s Land by English Border Guards perched on watch towers from Carlisle to Berwick.
    The Isle of Whithorn will be Boom Town!
    England and Wales out of the Single market, with no Freedom of movement would suggest that it will be England erecting barriers, not Scotland, or Ireland.
    A thought; if May uses EU workers in England as bargaining chips, and sends them in their millions back where they came from, and Scotland retains EU membership, what fate awaits the estimated 400,000 English born living and working in Scotland? Will they have to renounce their UK passport and become naturalised Scots?
    There may be troubles ahead.

  75. Proud Cybernat says:

    “…then a hard border becomes inescapable…in NI and indy Scotland….deal with it…”

    You believe that if it helps ease your discomfort. If y’all down there in Angerland want to build a wall then go for it. It’ll inconvenience 55 million a damn sight more than it will 5.4 million.

    Suckers!

  76. heedtracker says:

    Fred says:

    Morning troll.

  77. Macart says:

    O/T

    iScot could do we a wee hand folks. It has 12% on its funding so far and 21 days to go.

    A quality production and well worth the keeping.

    https://iscot.scot/

  78. Dan Huil says:

    Great fun and a good sign to see britnat types like Thrawn getting more and more desperate in their “arguments”.

  79. sandycraig says:

    Ruth Davidson said,” a labelling of inconvenient facts as Project Fear “.

    I seem to remember most, if not all of the facts touted in 2014 by better together, were not inconvenient, but comprehensively trashed on websites like Wings.

    ” Ach I’ll just say it anyway, nobody will notice, and I’ll bung in, instability, division, uncertainty, because these are the words I say all the time in Holyrood and it’s going down a storm.”

    Have a feeling Ruthie going to get her erse on a plate at FMQs.

    Scott yesterday about the tomatoes. Tomatoes for years have been absolutely tasteless, doesn’t matter which supermarket you get them from. Here’s a tip. If you can find one of the Fife fish vans in your area, some of them sell the Clyde Valley growers tomatoes. You will notice the difference. A bit dearer maybe but a helluva lot tastier.

  80. gerry parker says:

    DavidB at 9:58

    Here’s a list of UK products that have protected name status.
    out of the EU, there’s nothing to stop producers marketing pork pies as “Melton Mowbery style” pork pies.
    lots of other opportunities too.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_food_and_drink_products_with_protected_status

    Got my BBC IS Mis-reporting Scotland postcards this morning.

    Many thanks David Bell, they’ll find their way to suitable display areas.

    😉

  81. Andrew McLean says:

    I like posts that make a statement and then use a verifiable fact to back it up, our new troll makes a statement of opinion concealed as a fact, so let’s discuss the NI border for what it actually was.

    As we all agree the” hard border” was for the combating of terrorism, The idea of a hard border for economic reasons is just so much hot air and baloney!
    Listen it just won’t happen, because it was never as hard border !, Even when the IRA were running amok, let me put it this way, if you have a hard border for terrorism, then the army and police would chase down and occasionally engage with the terrorists. As everyone knows, it’s not the done thing to shoot ordinary civilians for taking advantage of cheaper cigarettes or food.

    So do you think for one minute either the UK government or the NI government will spend hundreds of millions of pounds to install and maintain a hard border, NO, NO , NO don’t be stupid.
    https://hatfulofhistory.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/policing-the-northern-irish-border-in-the-1970s/

    The best example I can suggest could happen is the border between the EU and Switzerland, and I personally have crossed this border at various places, you only know you are in another country because of the road signs. I intend to do so again in the summer, and there is no hard border, it doesn’t exist, actually to find this out for yourself, go to Google street view and walk across yourself.
    There is a post of sorts on the motorway I try to avoid that route anyway, but it is unmanned and you are past it before you realise what it was.

    A Hard border is a unionist lie!

  82. Proud Cybernat says:

    “…without a hard border how long will that last if millions of english economic migrants flood over the tweed…”

    http://imgur.com/Scgi0zL

  83. Dr Jim says:

    Yoons in a terrible fit of anger about us Scottish folk today
    They want to denigrate us if we stay but want to kill us if we leave, there seems to be no pleasing Yoonland at all

    Somebody coined the phrase Angerland and it does seem pretty apt, only moments ago Ian Duncan Smith decided that all the problems in the world are the fault of the EU, he says the Euro has collapsed, policies are terrible, the whole project is a failure and it’s affected good old Blighty’s mighty economy…Yet
    He still wants a trade deal with these awful failures…eh..but you just said?

    More and more on all sites now the Trumper Mays are wagging their fingers at us and shouting threateny retributions upon us if we leave but laughing at us if we’re foolish enought to stay

    Boiled down I might have worked out the Yoon position which is “We’re right you’re wrong” and apply after every sentence anybody else utters

  84. DerekM says:

    lol have you noticed that its never millions of Scots fleeing over the tweed,those brexit guys give you confidence they know what they are doing don’t they.

  85. Big Jock says:

    “Impossible to Enforce”- Interesting description. If something is impossible it’s not worth considering or spending time on money on. So there will be no border.

    Wonder how the Britnat anti EU, anti immigrant types will see this.

  86. Meg merrilees says:

    Strong arguments in Parliament yesterday from SDLP for N. Ireland and SNP contributions excellent. Ken Clarke will vote with the SNP against the government.

    Extraordinary, but not surprising article on the BBC Scotland website today.

    Headline:

    ” Ruth Davidson warns of ‘fratricidal conflict’ ”

    Then the unbiased, impartial BBC proceeds to use the article to reprint large sections of her speech without including the actual context of her use of the phrase ‘fratricidal conflict’.
    Very clever way of publicising her comments to a wider audience but also extremely foolish as out of context her comments seem even more mad and unreasoned.

    Ms Davidson said she did not want Scotland to join “post-Trump America and pre-election France as this year’s focal point for global instability.”

    She’s obviously ignoring the Brexit chaos that her head office in London is creating and the possibility that Brexit has contributed to Trump and Le pen being as popular as they are.

    What a numpty!

  87. Glesca Keelie says:

    Paul Dacre was the subject of a piece on BBC Newsnight last night.

    Cameron was supposed to have had a word with Harnsworth about getting him fired. That was after Cameron invited Dacre to a tete a tete at No. 10 among the kids and tea and tele asking him if he could go easy on Brexit. Dacre told him, no way Hosea.

    Only problem was, Dacre then heard about it and went on the attack even more.

    Parliament channel, 11.40 up to 12 last night. Brexit debate. About 50 Conservative MPs. 22ish o thae SNP and Michelle Thomson. AND, the Labour benches were filled with a whole 4 MPs, then went down to 4. That’s the spirit, Labour, keep it up.

  88. Glesca Keelie says:

    That should have been 5 Labour, then one buggered off

  89. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Breeks 10.14am

    Excellent reply regarding my hard border question.

    My point about the EU imposing a border between Scotland/England related more to the tariffs.

    The EU would want to block cheap goods from England flooding the European market. therefore would want to have some kind of border check between a Scotland that was in the EU and an England that wasn’t.

  90. Tam the Bam. says:

    Somebody buy Bercow (Mr Speaker) a handkerchief.Immediately after rebuking the SNP he picks his nose and proceeds to deposit his ‘findings’ on the sole of his shoe.

    Playback to enjoy.

  91. Andrew McLean says:

    Dr Jim says:

    “We’re right you’re wrong”

    The one true God of the brexateers is Trump and his philosophy is “its true if i say its true, because I have so, so many smarts I rally have you wont believe how many samrts I have, I am clever more smarter’s that the so called experts”

    True Trumping

    “Number one, I have great respect for women. I was the one that really broke the glass ceiling on behalf of women, more than anybody in the construction industry.”
    “I’ve said if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.”
    “If I were running ‘The View’, I’d fire Rosie O’Donnell. I mean, I’d look at her right in that fat, ugly face of hers, I’d say ‘Rosie, you’re fired.’”
    “All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me – consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected.”
    “Who wouldn’t take Kate’s picture and make lots of money is she does the nude sunbathing thing. Come on Kate!”
    “You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of ass.”
    “One of they key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace. Good people don’t go into government.”
    “The beauty of me is that I’m very rich.”
    “It’s freezing and snowing in New York – we need global warming!”
    “I think the only difference between me and the other candidates is that I’m more honest and my women are more beautiful.”
    “The point is, you can never be too greedy.”
    “My Twitter has become so powerful that I can actually make my enemies tell the truth.”
    “My IQ is one of the highest — and you all know it! Please don’t feel so stupid or insecure; it’s not your fault.”
    “I have so many fabulous friends who happen to be gay, but I am a traditionalist.”
    “The other candidates — they went in, they didn’t know the air conditioning didn’t work. They sweated like dogs…How are they gonna beat ISIS? I don’t think it’s gonna happen.”
    “Look at those hands, are they small hands? And, [Republican rival Marco Rubio] referred to my hands: ‘If they’re small, something else must be small.’ I guarantee you there’s no problem. I guarantee.”
    “I was down there, and I watched our police and our firemen, down on 7-Eleven, down at the World Trade Center, right after it came down”
    “I’m just thinking to myself right now, we should just cancel the election and just give it to Trump, right?”

    And that frigin idiot is t Mays new best-est friend in the whole wide world!

    God help us all!

  92. G4jeepers says:

    Love the brass neckedness of all these fawning Tollies standing up in WM saying “oh we must unite the good of the country” while Scotland’s voice is smothered and stymied and ‘they’ do all the talking. Soooo very democratic.

    A melodramatic stage show hosted by an unelected weasel wordied ‘speaker’ who sets most people’s skin crawling. Gadz.

    They should just go for a good auld squerr go and whoever is left standing at the end haves it.

  93. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    And of course after Independence our neighbours from south of the border would officially be known as “Foreigners”.

    They would also require visas to work in Scotland. I suppose if the ask nicely enough we might consider granting them their work permits, as long as they promise to behave themselves.

    Workers from the EU will have more rights in Scotland than our foreign southern neighbours.

    Roll on IndyRef2.

  94. JLT says:

    Thing is, the SNP need to be screaming this from the rafters. My fear is, that polite diplomacy (as the SNP have been trying to do as reasoned argument) is falling on deaf ears.

    To be honest, we’re getting to a stage where the SNP really need to emphasise their points now. Nicola now needs to be highlighting to the Scottish people EXACTLY what Westminster is up to. It’s no good appearing on TV and just saying that ‘Westminster isn’t listening’. We have got to the stage where a more stern line has to be taken and that the condemnation of Westminster by highlighting what Dominic Raab as a spokesman for the Government is saying. The people need to be told this …not ‘Westminster isn’t listening’. It’s got to the stage of banging the table.

    Westminster is ignoring everything we say. There has to be a point where one has to say ‘enough is enough’. If I was Nicola, I would be right on to that ‘hotline’ that Theresa has setup for the devolved government and would give her both barrels over more apparent deceivement.

  95. Kupo says:

    T.May “that’s not how you answer a question Dominic, old boy.
    All you have to do is keep speaking about stuff that people like the sound of but make no sense whatsoever.

    Interviewer: PM will there be a hard border with Scotland, and NI with Ireland.

    T.May:Let me be clear, this is not a benign choice, I like jammy dodgers as much as the next scot, but, and let me be clear, there will be no hard border with Ireland and the north, but let me be clear over the matter at hand as I’m sure you know brexit means brexit.
    I like chocolate weetabix, don’t you know, and as I’ve said before there will be a hard border with Scotland, but let me be clear, this is not a benign choice because as I also like tartan suits we will have a red, white and blue brexit that is right for all parts of the UK, but let me be clear, I liked the band blue when they were still singing. I love Scotland and will not stand by and let some nationalists take our great british raspberry jam from us. Now I have already been extremely clear on this as you know. That is why if Scotland leaves there will be a hard border, but this not a benign choice as brexit means David Davis has a nice name…

    Interviewer: Sorry we’ve run out of time PM.

  96. K1 says:

    Kudos Kupo 😉

    (yes I just wanted to see those two words together, but also…well satirised)

  97. schrodingers cat says:

    hard border, soft border meh, fairly irrelevent

    we discussed efta/eea vs eu membership yesterday, both give scotland access to the single market and freedom of movement

    england, at worst wto tariffs, at best wto tariffs with some concessions for some industries

    upshot
    french tourist arrives at heathrow, spends a week in london looking for work, as an immigrant, with no rights to work in london, best he can find is black work, low paid, night shift illegal type work, what he cant do is get a job legally with Macdonalds, tescos etc so they wont employ him. If he jumps on a train to edinburgh, he can get a job in a highly visable position, because he will have the right to work in scotland

    note, no hard border

    French tourist arrives at heathrow with a bag full of iphone7’s made in poland, sells them on the black market in london. Smuggling, nothing new, happens all the time and will continue to.
    Polish company sends box of iphone7’s to curries in carlisle, pays wto 10% tariff when they enter england. all above board via normal trading routes.Polish company then sends box of iphone7’s to curries in Gretna, no wto tariff charged.

    customer in carlisle travels to gretna to buy phone, 10% cheaper. businesses in gretna happy, scottish government happy about the boost to the borders economy from english shopping tourist. Curries in carlisle not so happy, westminster not happy about the drain on northern englands economy

    note, no hard border

    the only way westminster can stop this is for THEM to build a hard border and check english people traveling back to england with goods bought in scotland and tax them accordingly

    presently, england makes and “exports” lots of goods to scotland, Tomato ketchup, kellogs cornflakes, coca cola etc. If we are in the EEA and england behind a wto tariff barrier (note no hard border) tescos in glasgow will simply source these goods from elsewhere in the eu 10% cheaper, It is nothing personal, just business. This will be the case for everything england makes and exports to scotland, cars, iphones etc, everything

    the only items which england makes and exports to scotland that will not suffer from this state of affairs are items that CANNOT be sourced elsewhere, eg peckham spring water, devon clotted cream, cornish pasties, newcastle brown ale.
    however, these items will be 10% more expensive than scottish and eu substitutes and dumfries clotted cream is better anyway

    the point here is, scotland in the eea and england behind wto tariff barrier will cause england to lose 90% of its trade to scotland, overnight. without a brick being laid

    the figures for scotlands trade with england are sparse, inaccurate, dont take into consideration what is merely passing through english ports onto the eu and else where. Im sure by the time indyref2 comes round, westminster will have found some “independent” body to supply andrew neil with figures which show 120% of scotlands trade is with england for him to wave in the faces of yes/snp commentators on the daily politics and there will be nothing we can do about it.

    That is why it is better to look at what it is we make and export to england and focus on the fact that whether england is 50% 80% or 120% of our market, 90% of scotlands exports are made up from, electricity, fish, petrol, seed potatoes, oil, stud beef, gas, water, whisky etc and even if these things are 10% more expensive to buy in england, people will have no choice but to buy them

  98. Ian McCubbin says:

    Wow they mostly lie during the day. A bit like prey running scared from inevitable.
    So maybe we need to take turns on night shift to catch these truths.

  99. Golfnut says:

    @ Valerie 10:17, totally agree with the wheat problem, bloated after even a slice of bread, or scone and cakes. Started about 5 years ago for me, rye and oats fine. Up side lost 2.5 stone, even with the increased intake of chocolate.

  100. Robert Peffers says:

    From what I can see the Brexiteer arguments all have the same big obvious flaw.

    Every Brexiteer and every Pro-Brexit belief misses the rather important point that they are not the only ones involved in what they seem to see as, “The British Great Escape”.

    Every aspect of their views is wrong.

    First of all nothing they do or say will see Britain exit from the EU, because while they have, since time immemorial, claimed to be Britain they remain, at most, only the United Kingdom part of Britain.

    So the very term, “Brexit”, is a lie and, as such, beggars the question of, “Do they actually believe they are Britain or is it just their brainwashing propaganda”?

    Then that brings in the question, “If they are not Britain then what are they”?

    Again they claim to really be, “The United Kingdom”, but always only use the initials, “UK”. What, though, actually is, “The United Kingdom”, or UK?

    According to the Treaty of Union, (1706/7), that formed it the definition is, “The Union of the two equally sovereign Kingdoms of Scotland and England”, and is thus a united kingdom.

    Yet the, “Brexiteers”, claim that it is not only a country but is also a, “Member State”, of several international bodies including the EU, NATO, The WTO, The UN, The Geneva Convention, The British Commonwealth and so on.

    However, when we look at actualities the so called, “United Kingdom Parliament”, claims now to be NOT a union of two kingdoms but a Unitary government that encompasses not only two kingdoms but also four distinct countries while claimant itself to be a single country.

    Trouble is that it does not run itself as either a bipartite United Kingdom but claims the Treaty of Union, “Extinguished”, The Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as, “The United Kingdom”. Which is a conundrum because, if it is now renamed it is no longer, “Kingdom of England”, and neither Kingdom now exists and if neither kingdom exists then how can there be a United Kingdom without kingdoms?

    However, the madness does not stop there – Westminster then splits up the, whatever it actually is, “United Kingdom of two kingdoms as four distinct countries but goes even further as it creates only three parliaments instead of four. It assumes Westminster to remain as the de facto Parliament of the country of England. It thus devolves the non-existent country of England’s parliamentary powers unequally to the three other country’s parliaments but continues to claim Westminster is a United Kingdom’s Parliament.

    So where is the parliament of the country of England? There are no country of England Members of the non-existent Parliament of England but the Westminster Parliament of the United Kingdom contains elected Members from the three other country parliaments. Except, as ruled by the United Kingdom Parliament, if it considers any matter it chooses to call an English only matter, then, by use of EVEL, Westminster bars all non English members of the United Kingdom Parliament from voting upon that chosen English Only Matter.

    However, as there is no actual parliament of England and thus no members of the Parliament of England are not the English elected members of the United Kingdom Parliament that is funded as the United Kingdom with UK funds really the de facto Parliament of England and not that of the United Kingdom of Scotland & England?

    The so called United Kingdom is not only a Pig’s Breakfast but its members do not seem to know what they really are for they invariably claim to be the parliament of the country of Britain and no such country exists.

  101. Big Jock says:

    Regards the annual Fracking, invented concerns,mock outcry by the Yoons in opposition, and the Beeb all over it like a cheap suit.

    Just to sum up the reason why the Scot Gov will not outright ban ban this. If they ban something without due time,consideration and process. The fracking companies take them to court and overturn the ban. If all process and consideration is taken before saying no then the frackers would be unlikely to succeed in an appeal. The moratorium is to allow consideration to ultimately say no and make sure it’s not overturned.

    The Yoons know this but they peddle the myth that the SNP is dithering to the press and public. In other words they are mischief making and playing to the gallery. Their spin is that the SNP are secretly going to let fracking happen. However the truth is they want it banned and it aint going to happen.

  102. Proud Cybernat says:

    Vote Labour – Vote Borders

    Vote Tory – Vote Borders

  103. orri says:

    The insistence from either the EU or “UK” post Brexit on there being a hard border whilst avoiding said hard border either in Ireland or Britain (as in the mainland) can only be resolved by encouraging NI to reunite with the south and denying us a second independence referendum. Thus Brexit would mean only mainland Britain, and associated islands, leaving.

  104. gerry parker says:

    Great speech by Alex Salmond in the house on “full English Brexit”

  105. Dr Jim says:

    While Treeza’s getting carried away with her new found power and drunk on her biglyness, over the water in EU land they’re saying…

    Ye think so? Aye right!

    Only in foreign, coz that’s what they speak over there, that foreign
    Question: Why is everybody else foreign but Yoonland is’nt

  106. Effijy says:

    Raabie Burns the Scots Eh!

    Isn’t it reasuring to know that there will be no need for a hard border between the Irish Republic and Ulster, as they never had one before the UK joined the EU.

    We also had several hundred years experience of Scotland being an independent country, so that should be as easy to set up as the No Border Solution with the Republic.

    Westminster has promised Scottish revenue in a fund that will give a Japanese Car Manufacturer in England a Special Deal with the EU, but Scotland should get nothing of the sort?

    We are less important as a Nation than a Nissan Micra.

    Breath takingly arrogant and completely indefensible from
    our Westminster Slave Masters.

    My Shackles are off and my Hackles are up!

  107. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Great speech by Alex Salmond in the house on “full English Brexit”

    Shouldn’t that be “fool English Brexit”?

  108. Macart says:

    @gerry parker

    Any link to the Alex Salmond speech?

  109. Tam the Bam. says:

    Gerry Parker @1.27pm

    ‘Great speech by Alex Salmond…….’

    Wasn’t it just!…real vintage,fire-in-the-belly rhetoric from ‘Eck….fair brightened my day!

  110. heedtracker says:

    Very interesting national division here, Scotland and England wise. Wonder why Scotland’s not backing Pres Trump?

    http://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=178844

    Rather cunning word selection too,

    “Donald Trump should make a State Visit to the United Kingdom.

    Donald Trump should be invited to make an official State Visit because he is the leader of a free world and U.K. is a country that supports free speech and does not believe that people that appose our point of view should be gagged.”

  111. carjamtic says:

    Big Eck on fire 🙂

    #Sizzling

  112. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Sky News cut off Alex Salmond while he was making his speech.

    Can you feel the luv???

  113. Thrawn says:

    @yesindyref2:
    Monaco, San Marino + andorra…well good to see the future international profile of indy Scotland will be based on that of micro states with the population of Perth…seriously that is the best you can come up with…lol. Anyway all three are in the EEA via EFTA and therefore all 3 have customs union with EU…no need for hard border…if EU or UK does not agree to those terms (which is likely given the latest rhetoric) then hard border

    @muscleguy:
    I am very aware of how the EU works (and am an ardent remainer btw) and yes Ireland may veto any deal which creates a hard border…which btw would mean that the EU and UK would have to come up with a deal that basically left trade and immigration relations the same thereby rendering the so called justification for indyref2 redundant. But then again Ireland might want a hard border…with 44% in favour of united Ireland in NI right now…the thought of hard border with Ireland might push sufficient ardent remainer protestants to vote for unification

    @DerekM
    As other posters have pointed out if indy Scotland wants to remain in the EU it may have no choice to put up a hard border irrespective of what the rUK does or wants. And there are thousands of reasons why indy Scotland might want a hard border as well…for example what if rUK cuts VAT to 10%..every Scottish retailer within 100miles of the border would go bust without customs barriers at border…what if rUK privatises the NHS but it remains free in indy Scotland…the resultant health tourism would break the system…what if rUK goes all in on GM food or lowers safety standards on manufactured items…would we in Scotland just accept that?

    All of you can dream about how independence from a Brexit Britain will change nothing…but it is dreaming. None of this is to say that an independent Scotland couldn’t eventually survive and even thrive (after a tough adjustment period) but you all need to get real and admit that barring the softest of soft Brexits that independence in this scenario will mean a far more fundamental change in our relation with rUK than if we were both still in the EU.

  114. schrodingers cat says:

    whether there is a hard border or not
    england behind a wto tariff and scotland in the eea would mean england losing most of its trade with scotland over night

    cars made in the eu will be 20% cheaper in the eu, traders will simply source their cars from there

  115. auldtam says:

    I have to admit at times I have told English people they WILL need -passport-scotch money to cross border. Also they should fill up with petrol at Morpeth or Carlile cause there are so few garages.None ever came back and called me names.

  116. wull2 says:

    Please, somebody put the Alex Salmond speech and link on YouTube so we can share widely.

  117. Auld Rock says:

    Maybe he’s running scared of the ‘Truth Fairies’,LOL.

    Auld Rock

  118. davidb says:

    Its not a blocking of cheap goods the EU would be doing. Most of the Western/Northern part of the EU don’t make cheap stuff any more. The cars made in Western Europe are predominately higher value added. The cheaper models mostly come from Eastern Europe. Indeed much of all that is traded within and is exported from the EU is higher value added goods. From Belgian Chocolate to Italian Handbags, to French wine to Barbour Jackets. The cheap stuff comes from Asia.

    Inside the EU there is a lot of integrated cross border trade. Things traded for example, are the components of vehicles. Engines from Wales. Leather for seats from Bridge of Weir. Truck axles from Glasgow. Outside the EU and not in the free trade zone could cost us business because nickels and dimes matter in mass manufacture. Like the few percent a tariff imposes. But I doubt very very much that several grand on a BMW or a couple of quid on a bottle of Champagne is going to put UK buyers off. They are Veblin goods.

    We actually do not know what our country makes, nor what it imports, nor what the effects of different trading arrangements with different players are going to be. What is undoubted is that Scotland has to develop its export markets post independence, and with a degree of urgency. England runs an unsustainable trade deficit and looks to be incapable of correcting its fiscal deficit. We will be dragged down with them if we don’t get out. Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps we have lost the skills to make world competitive products in the UK? We are asking in the Chinese to build railways – and we invented them!

    The EU protects its agriculture. The US is the largest food exporter. But many of us have concerns about the quality of US food. But its not just the apples in your supermarket. Its the wheat ( as mentioned above ). Its the meat in your pie. Its the hypercompetativeness of the US agri industry. Little British fields cannot compete with fields a combine harvester does not even reach the end of in a single day. And the pesticides. The permitted additives. The suspect methods. The animal welfare standards.

    Its not about the simple smuggling of cheap Australian wine ( which could end up many pence – aye pence – cheaper outside the EU ), but the destabilising effect on rUK agriculture and remaining manufacturing of being outside the free trade area. Cutting ourselves off from the high standards and protected EU economy leaves us competing with Korea, the US and Japan. Fancy our chances?

  119. Joemcg says:

    Wow the yoons battle plans are falling apart within a few hours! Border posts and the Spanish veto! It will only be the currency mantra left. Feels like we are winning at last!

  120. gerry parker says:

    Sorry Sam, didn’t manage to record, was in a friends house.
    😉

  121. Richardinho says:

    I’m not sure they said they WEREN’T going to erect a hard border during the referendum. Campaign. My recall is that they said that they WERE!

  122. Al Dossary says:

    ALex Salmond today: Scroll to 13:14 in the right hand window and click on his name.

    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/6c20216a-6561-414d-8ad9-2d3a0036cab1

  123. Macart says:

    @gerry parker

    No worries. I’m sure someone will post a youchoob link in due course. 🙂

  124. Lenny Hartley says:

    Re trade with England when we are in EU/EFTA/EEA and they are not, don’t think they will be on Wto rules maybe a halfway house. However most of our trade from them is commodities , we can easily source from Elsewhere, have you every been to Lidl or Aldi, a lot of foodstuffs sourced primarily from Germany. (It’s still cheaper and better quality than Tesco’s et Al) the one thing that is not in my opinion is baked beans, you can’t beat Heinz! Heinz baked beans are made in England however hardly any ingredients come from England , 200 tonnes of beans a day, imported from States, Tomato for sauce from Italy, Sugar – can’t remember but it’s abrodia, only thing made in
    UK is the Tins (port Talbot) and labels. Heat up in a tin with energy from Scotland.

    With pound tanks further when we dissolve the Union , pushing up costs of imports to England/Wales making Heinz beans Uncompetativev with beans made in Europe or Scotland.

    Scotland exports to England such as Oil and Gas, Electrickery and Water , Whisky, Not so easily sourced as Transport/transmission costs cheaper from Scotland

    We are on a win win situation especially if we are in EFTA/EEA and can do a no tariff deal with England/Wales/NI , and the price of Heinz beans don’t go up too much.

  125. Bob MACK says:

    It becomes ever obvious listening to the debate that the Tories are taking us like lemmings over the cliff face to avoid political annihilation to UKIP.

    Many Tories speak with little conviction about leaving Europe. I exclude Ken Clarke from that statement,

    It appears they are now locked into that sole strategy to avoid the electorate wiping them out at the next election in favour of UKIP.

    I always believed that politicians would act in the National interest rather than their narrower party needs. Seems I was wrong.

  126. Nana says:

    Hopefully video will start where I’ve stopped the video Alex Salmond just after George Osborne. if not just scroll to find Alex and Angus McNeil

    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/6c20216a-6561-414d-8ad9-2d3a0036cab1

  127. Macart says:

    @Nana

    You’re the bestest! 🙂

    That was a rip snorting address by Alex Salmond.

  128. schrodingers cat says:

    davidb says:
    We actually do not know what our country makes,

    but we do know all of our companies, can we deduce which of these companies will be effected by a wto tariff barrier on the border?

    Broadcast electronics

    Clyde Broadcast

    Construction

    Barr Construction Ltd

    Oil and gas exploration/extraction

    Britoil
    Cairn Energy
    Dana Petroleum
    Wood Group

    Food and beverages

    AG Barr – producers of soft drinks, including Irn Bru and Tizer
    Baxters – international food producer, notable for soups and other Scottish-themed goods
    Caledonian Brewing Company
    Drambuie – whisky producer
    Drumchapel – whisky producers
    Edrington Group
    Highland Spring – bottled water supplier
    Johnnie Walker – international whisky group, part of Diageo
    Justerini & Brooks Whisky – part of Diageo
    Robert Wiseman Dairies – major milk supplier throughout the United Kingdom
    Tennent’s – major brewing company
    Tunnock’s – biscuit and confectionery producer
    Walkers Shortbread – shortbread, biscuit and cracker company
    William Grant & Sons – whisky producers
    Whyte and Mackay – whisky producers

    Financial services

    Aberdeen Asset Management
    Airdrie Savings Bank
    Alliance Trust
    Century Building Society
    Clydesdale Bank
    Dunfermline Building Society
    Lloyds Banking Group
    HBOS – holding company of the Bank of Scotland
    Scottish Widows
    TSB Bank
    The Royal Bank of Scotland Group
    Adam and Company
    The Royal Bank of Scotland
    Scottish Building Society
    Scottish Equitable
    Scottish Friendly
    Standard Life – formerly Europe’s largest mutual life assurance company
    Tesco Personal Finance

    Hotels

    Apex Hotels
    Gleneagles Hotel

    IT

    Adrok Group – subsurface exploration group
    Agenor Technology – an information and communications technology company; specialises in deploying technology and business change in high-pressured environments
    Cupid plc – owner and operator of online mainstream and niche dating websites
    MindGenius – software developer who produce an application of the same name
    Real Time Worlds Ltd – games and entertainment company founded by David Jones
    Rockstar North (formerly DMA Design) – computer games developer, known for their Grand Theft Auto series; autonomous division of Rockstar Games
    Skyscanner – flight aggregator website

    Manufacturing

    Aggreko plc
    Albion Motors
    Alexander Dennis
    BVT Surface Fleet – part of BAE Systems and VT Group
    Cashmaster International Ltd
    Doosan Babcock
    Edesix
    Kelvin Diesels
    Linn Products
    Pelamis Wave Power
    Pringle of Scotland
    Robert Noble
    Spirit AeroSystems (Europe) Ltd
    Wavegen
    Weir Group plc
    Wolfson Microelectronics

    Media
    Further information: Media in Scotland and List of Scotland–based production companies

    BBC Scotland – national public broadcaster
    The Comedy Unit
    D. C. Thomson & Co. Ltd – publisher of the Sunday Post, the Beano
    Deep Fried Film
    Johnston Press – owner of The Scotsman
    STV Group plc (formerly SMG plc, or Scottish Media Group plc) – owner of STV

    Energy and utilities

    British Energy
    Scotia Gas Networks
    Scottish and Southern Energy plc – electricity and natural gas supplier
    Scottish Gas – gas and electricity supplier, Scottish arm of Centrica plc
    Scottish Power – gas and electricity supplier, Scottish arm of Iberdrola
    Scottish Water
    Business Stream – subsidiary of Scottish Water
    SgurrEnergy – engineering consultancy specialising in renewable energy

    Retail

    Arnold Clark – car dealerships, with over 145 locations throughout the UK
    Edinburgh Woolen Mill – clothing, knitwear
    Farmfoods – frozen food supermarkets
    Jenners – now a subsidiary of House of Fraser
    Kwik Fit – car repairs, mechanics
    M&Co – clothing
    Schuh – footwear, stores throughout UK and Ireland
    Scotmid – Scotland-wide supermarket chain
    Semi Chem – nationwide pharmacy chain, owned by the Scotmid group

    Restaurants

    The Ashvale – fish and chip restaurants / take-aways

    Telecommunications

    Thus – formerly known as Scottish Telecom

    Domiciliary care

    Visioncall – domiciliary eye care company, branches throughout the UK

    Transport
    Air and sea

    BMI regional – airline based at Aberdeen Airport; subsidiary of BMI
    Caledonian MacBrayne – ferry company operating mainly on the west coast of Scotland
    Forth Ports plc – port operator
    Highlands and Islands Airports Limited – owned by the Scottish Government
    Loganair – operates flights between Scottish airports under the FlyBE franchise
    NorthLink Ferries – operator of ferries to the Northern Isles
    ScotAirways – operates flights from Edinburgh Airport and Dundee Airport to London City Airport
    Western Ferries (Clyde) Ltd. – Dunoon-based operator of car and passenger ferry services on the River Clyde

    Road and rail

    Abellio ScotRail – national rail operator
    Arriva Scotland West – regional bus operator
    Christian Salvesen – international transport and logistics company with its HQ in Edinburgh, founded there in 1846, now part of Norbert Dentressangle
    FirstGroup – owner of the FirstBus brand based in Aberdeen
    John Menzies – international logistics and distribution company based in Edinburgh
    Lothian Buses – regional bus operator owned by Edinburgh City Council
    Megabus – low-cost inter-city bus operator; part of the Stagecoach Group PLC
    Parks of Hamilton – large Scottish coach operator; with StarRiders of Plymouth, part of the Parks Motor Group
    Scottish Citylink – inter-city coach operator
    Stagecoach Group – international bus and train operator, based in Perth, Perthshire

    Miscellaneous

    Wood Group
    Wood Mackenzie

  129. geeo says:

    Alex Salmond just handed Kay Burley her scrawny arse in an interview on Sky news couple of minutes ago….

    What a fuckkng ignorant bitch. Tried to tell him Indy was polling at 24% !!

    She got destroyed.

  130. yesindyref2 says:

    With year end accounts submitted a few hours early this year rather than 2 minutes to midnight, I’ve been looking at pricing and coincidentally an order (nice!) and a business survey from Fraser of Allander pops into my mailbox. A couple of the questions about price of imports and any price increase in amongst a lot of stuff mores suited to bigger businesses, but I did it anyway.

    I think last year businesses mostly absorbed the £ drop, and wise ones (like me) ordered as much supplies in as possible. I think perhaps the supply chain did the same largely, though those that set a spot price of course, have to follow the (mostly) dollar.

    But this year is going to see a change to that, as supplies need replaced, raw materials, all up the chain. And you can’t just put the price up the amount it costs more, money costs money, so it will largely be proportional on the whole price.

    Brexit this year is going to bite, and bite hard, and faced with the choice of some disruption with independence, and disruption due to Brexit anyway but with control moved to Scotalnd, we may well see a whole load of businesses turn to Independence and control in Scotland.

    Hopefully!

  131. Andrew Mclean says:

    thrawn,
    I read your posts and all I hear is but,but,but,but, your not a proud scot but are you, ?

    If you take time, read some great posts on here you will realise that your obsticals to independence referendum 2 are based on ignorance.

    One thing you go back to repeatedly is whither a need exists for a independence referendum, and as justification you use every unionist argument under the sun.

    Let me explain, in Scotland we have a system where we elect a political party based on the policy they propose in something called a manifesto, when elected that party has to honour those promises. The SNP said if Scotland during the EU referendum voted to remain and was forced out of the EU because of any other country then that would result in a referendum.

    Listen I know you are upset, but the remain side won in Scotland, get over it!

    Oh and another thing look up the tax rates in the Irish republic, and you show your absolute ignorance when talking about health tourism it exists today, if an English person requires a hospital stay in Scotland the SNHS bill the English NHS for the cost!

    To be fair you haven’t mentioned Scotland being struck by an asteroid, but, but, but, there is still time.

  132. I have stopped listening to this nonsense from the unionists.

    They live in a fantasy world where they believe that
    whatever action they take, such as imposing a hard border won’t have a detrimental impact on the people of England and its economy.

    Its just like Trump’s belief that he can impose tariffs on imports from other countries and that won’t be reciprocated on American exports.

    It’s also noticeable how the language of the Brexiteers is becoming more extreme, a unionist has a letter in one of my local newspapers attacking Nicola Sturgeon and calling British remain voters as Vichy remoaners.

  133. Joemcg says:

    Fantastic speech by Alex Salmond today. Awesome.

  134. katherine hamilton says:

    Thanks Nana, as always for Alex link.
    Saddo point. Did you notice started talking at 13.14? Hmmmm. Obviously the Speaker never watched the clock!

  135. liz says:

    Just listened to Alex’s speech. Brilliant, funny and informative – Wallace will no doubt get a pardon sometime, LOL

    The MPs behind him, not SNP, were nodding in agreement.

    He got support from 2 English MPs also including Chuka Umunna who was determined to get into Hansard his comment that if it all went pear shaped the PM has to take full responsibility.

    Was at the hairdressers today, he said his son was very upset by Brexit as he thought of himself as European BUT the hairdresser was saying it will be difficult now for indy because of the ….oil price.
    I despair sometimes but we still have our work cut out to persuade the reluctant to vote Yes

  136. Andrew Mclean says:

    DavidB,

    The inland revenue know what every business does. What they make, what tax rate applies.

  137. cirsium says:

    @Paula Rose, 2.35pm

    is that a spoof website? Hard to believe it is genuine.

  138. call me dave says:

    Nana says:
    1 February, 2017 at 3:10 pm
    Alex on youtube

    Thanks for that Nana. Excellent from Mr Salmond. 🙂

    Been missing commenting due to fag end of the year blues and an expected family bereavement but still managed to have a WoS peek now and again.

    Now time to get on again on a new Month.
    Things beginning to get interesting.

  139. yesindyref2 says:

    Vive La France!

    http://archive.is/vrMpA

    Beautiful building, and I dareasay France paid a lot for that. Seems to me it’s a sign of what the French think will happen to Scotland. Possibly the first in a long line of embassy buyers from all over the world.

    It’s happening.

  140. DerekM says:

    As other posters have mentioned Thrawn if there is to be a hard border it will be England that makes it.

    Hmmm what to do if there is a cut in English vat,well i guess since we are independent we could do the same or better or hey get this we could balance it by transferring the cut to say your fuel bill.

    Now health tourism is a big problem how do we stop it from breaking us hmmm i know we send a bill to westminster,if the good people of England wish to use our NHS its only fitting that some agreement is made with the government of England to reimburse the good people of Scotland for looking out for their people.

    Eh no we would just not buy it and neither would the rest of Europe,so as a potential sale for profit commodity its pretty fucking useless regardless of your views on them.

    Or will we see English spivs on the street corners selling modified tomatoes,get your freaky corn here?

    Any more hypothetical situations where the mighty England tries to shut down indy Scotland from being competitive.

    Newsflash just in independence supporter dreams of freedom,why because his country is not free.

  141. yesindyref2 says:

    Sheesh, just looked at where that is in Edinburgh (long time since I lived there 2 or 3 years).

    Trust the French to get a prime site for their Consulate in Edinbrugh in Independent Scotland.

  142. Nana says:

    @call me dave

    Sorry to hear that, I was wondering if you were ok.

    Good to see you back.

  143. yesindyref2 says:

    It gets even better:

    Emmanuel Cocher, French Consul General, said: “True to the Auld Alliance as well as our European bonds, France wants to invest in Edinburgh and Scotland.

  144. heedtracker says:

    Joemcg says:
    1 February, 2017 at 3:30 pm
    Fantastic speech by Alex Salmond today. Awesome.

    Any links to it, youchoob etc?

  145. Nana says:

    @katherine hamilton

    You are welcome Katherine.

    @Heedtracker

    See upthread 3.10 for youtube link to Alex Salmond’s speech

  146. sandycraig says:

    Alex Salmond in top form again. A man who speaks with conviction, unlike many of the others who rabbit on but make little coherent argument to the debate. I exclude Ken Clarke.

    Any link to the Salmond/Burley fight?

  147. Valerie says:

    I’m listening to the debate whilst decorating, because I can’t bear to actually look at so many Tories, and inert Labour lackeys.

    I’ve said many times since June, last year. I think the Tories, like May, who were initially shocked by the vote, quickly grasped the fact that it presented a unique opportunity to cover up the mess they have made of the economy.

    Without Brexit to blame, and assert they were backing democracy, the UK was in dire straits financially, with no apparent fix. The UK would have slowly ground to halt, and realisation would dawn it was down to decisions during the coalition, and subsequently Cameron, that was to blame.

    Brexit keeps them in power, whilst having the EU and vote to blame. This has always been Miliband and Corbyns failure, the failure to present some of the financial mismanagement of Tories.

  148. crazycat says:

    @ yesindyref2

    And in the best traditions of the Herald, they’ve got a verb in the wrong tense in the headline (one that someone – maybe Rough Bounds – mentioned as a pet hate fairly recently).

  149. Lenny Hartley says:

    trump doing what he does best during the campaign in 2015.

    //mobile.twitter.com/NoorAjaj/status/826507461540642816?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&iid=88b60ec950b74d4a89fec225e8d56739&uid=396740562&nid=244+272699392

  150. Sinky says:

    BBC Radio Scotchland covering increase in Business Rates but fails to mention that this is down to statutory revaluation.

  151. Bob MACK says:

    The lack of statesmanship in the Commons is very distinct.
    There is amazingly very little recognition that since the referendum on Brexit the world has significantly changed.
    We have a Narcissistic President in America determined to make his reign improve America regardless of effects on anybody. He is unpredictable moody and prone to spur of the moment impulsive acts.

    We have an angry Europe, who will possibly now fulfill it’s wish for a static European army, which will in turn infuriate Russia. We meanwhile are in no man’s land unable to influence anybody.

    Europe may actually become a threat to the English establishment in future years.

    There are elder statesmen and women who recognise all of this but I suppose party pressure silences them. Concerning indeed.

  152. Robert Peffers says:

    @JLT says: 1 February, 2017 at 12:34 pm:

    “Thing is, the SNP need to be screaming this from the rafters. My fear is, that polite diplomacy (as the SNP have been trying to do as reasoned argument) is falling on deaf ears.”

    Deaf ears? JLT. Like perhaps yours?

    Strange then that I, who has actual hearing problems, hear them loud and clear.

    BTW: On what evidence do you base your claims that the SNP’s message is falling upon deaf ears – I think you forgot to mention whose deaf ears you meant.

    I do know there has been several polite and encouraging remarks from such as the President of the EC and even from the former UK negotiator who, allegedly, resigned because of the UK Government’s stated stance on leaving the EU.

    Also several MEPs including a standing ovation for the Scots MEP whose stirring speech obviously touched the EU parliament.

    And another thing – you seem to be very able to hear the UK parliament’s propaganda both direct and in the MSM.

    I wonder why that is? Especially when the Scots want to remain in the EU while the other part of the UK wants to leave. I would imagine that the EU would feel friendly towards the Scots and none too pleased with the rest of the UK.

    Am I wrong to trust the SNP’s judgement before I trust yours?

  153. heedtracker says:

    Nana,

    Thank you!

  154. Macart says:

    @call me dave

    Sorry to hear of your loss.

    You’ve been missed and it is good to see you back.

  155. Joemcg says:

    Heedtracker, I clicked on Nana’s post. Thanks Nana. I’ve noticed you found it anyway 🙂

  156. Thepnr says:

    @katherine hamilton

    Well picked up on. The Alex Salmond 13:14 speech!

    That was brilliant and so was the speech, best I have heard in many many years from any politician. You can feel the passion, that man exudes it.

    Nicola Sturgeon will pick up the gauntlet on Scotland’s behalf alright. We can be certain of that and it was great to hear such fighting talk.

    I notice too that last nights gaff by the Tory from the Brexit Select Committee on Hard Talk last night also got a mention. I wonder if Alex actually saw it himself or just read about it this morning on Wings 🙂

    Brilliant speech and I can’t wait to see more.

  157. yesindyref2 says:

    @ Thrawn “Monaco, San Marino + andorra … Anyway all three are in the EEA via EFTA

    No they’re not, they’re not in EFTA:

    Information about the EFTA Member States: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland.

    http://www.efta.int/about-efta/the-efta-states

    You’ll have to troll harder than that!

  158. galamcennalath says:

    sandycraig says:

    Ruth Davidson said,”a labelling of inconvenient facts as Project Fear“.

    “Inconvenient facts”? Not yet another name for lies so they can pretend they were actually lies?

    I preferred things in the old days when everyone called lies, lies.

  159. mike d says:

    Ah but see yon Alex sammin,i don’t like him. Why is that i say,what has he done to make you dislike him?. I dunno,I jeest don’t like him.’the logic of the lower end of the yoon gene pool.

  160. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Just catching up here again now, so my thanks too nana for that link to Alex Salmond’s speech in the HoC. A parliamentary tour de force.

    Like JLT @ 12:34, I think we need far more of this kind of quiet but forceful outrage at what is being perpetrated upon us without our consent.

  161. frogesque says:

    Go Joanna Cherry!

    Were promises during Indyref just lies?!

  162. yesindyref2 says:

    @crazycat (J?)
    Yeah, there’s a fair few grammar faults all the time. I think the H have been cutting staff, and the journos are under pressure to churn out articles for the website, hence perhaps the doubling up of same articles. And more cuts to come I think.

  163. Luigi says:

    Thanks Nana, for providing a link to Alex Salmond’s speech.

    Wow, what a roasting those tories had to endure.

    When Alex Salmond talks, people sit up and listen (friend and foe alike). 🙂

  164. Big Jock says:

    Lets imagine that Nicola had spouted the divisive, inciteful trite comments that the glorious leader of the Scottish Cons had said. The press would go to town for months. This country is an absolute disgrace!

  165. ronnie anderson says:

    Anybody got the clip links of Kay Burley & Alex,its never been repeated since.

  166. Thepnr says:

    Alex Salmond 13:14 speech.

    Did you see the look on the face of Ed Miliband the Rt. Honorable Member for Doncaster North when Salmond mentioned him? Hahahaha.

  167. geeo says:

    https://m.facebook.com/groups/237578533089567?view=permalink&id=732549316925817

    Hopefully this will work.

    Please excuse my daft dog making ‘woof-woof’ noises near the end…

  168. JLT says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Strange then that I, who has actual hearing problems, hear them loud and clear.

    Being rather harsh there to begin with, Robert.

    But going with both our conversations …in there lies the problem, Robert. We can hear the SNP because we are engaged. But the average person on the street isn’t. They don’t see the arguments like you and I do. The only way they will take notice is if the rhetoric is stepped up a notch. People always sit up if the language of conversation becomes heated. They take notice. They begin to engage and listen to what is going on.

    Right now, I don’t think a good portion of the Scottish electorate know what is being said …by either side (and a lot of that is done to our wonderful media). I’ll bet that 50% of Scotland will never see that above clip, and therefore, are very unaware of what the UK Government is actually saying. That the UK Government is speaking with forked tongues when it comes to Ireland and Scotland. They are having 2 very different conversations on the same subject matter and over the same causes and reasons. But yet Scotland gets treated very differently.

    I have no doubt that the SNP are gathering all the information that can be used as a case for independence, but unless the average person out there really understands what is being said …they’ll just see it as sabre-rattling by the SNP. There has to be a much more stern line like the one that Alex Salmond took this afternoon (and that was the point of my argument at mid-day! This is what we need now – all the time! The quiet reasoned debate with Westminster is more or less over) We have got to that stage. I can see. You can see it …but does Joe Public see it? Hopefully, with a speech like Alex’s today, then it will finally begin to hit home.

    And you never know, if a more stern line is definitely taken, one of the Unionist MP’s may make the mistake of actually speaking their mind. Such a mistake could be gold dust.

  169. Flower of Scotland says:

    Great speech by Hannah Bardell!

  170. Thepnr says:

    Cheers geeo.

    My daft dog started barking when your daft dog did :). Maybe recognising Kay Burley for what she is. A tool of Rupert Murdoch and the establishment.

  171. yesindyref2 says:

    @geeo
    Mmmm . . .

    Nick knack, Tory whack give Lord Soames a bone.
    That old man got rolling stone.

  172. yesindyref2 says:

    Damn, that should be Sir Soames. It always takes me twice to get it better.

  173. galamcennalath says:

    geeo says:

    …daft dog making ‘woof-woof’ noises ….

    Well, if your dug was barking at Kay Burnley for being so bloody annoying and disrespectful, then she/he was quite right!

    Thanks for capturing that. AS did well, as always.

    Burnley has form. What is she? Closet UKIPer or something? Certainly doesn’t hide her EngNat views.

    And … go on, Nicola, lift the gauntlet!

  174. yesindyref2 says:

    My wife says it was Kay Burley got Peter Andre to cry by asking him “How do you feel about another man being the father to your kids?”.

    A nasty piece of work.

  175. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links for May 2013 now over on O/T.

  176. shug says:

    We really need a list of how Westminster betrayed the union
    The message to be clear is Westminster destroyed the union

  177. geeo says:

    Burley is a self satified sanctimonious git.

    Loved oor Eck…..”THAT, Kay…is a FACT” !!

    Thag interview ain’t getting repeated any time soon on Sky.

  178. JLT says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Apologies! I’ll re-write my post again. I tried to write it at work, but kept on getting disturbed, so parts of it read rather …odd. So …here we go again.

    Strange then that I, who has actual hearing problems, hear them loud and clear.

    But going with both our conversations, Robert …in there lies the problem, Robert. We can hear the SNP because we are always engaged, but the average person on the street isn’t. They don’t see the arguments like you and I do. The only way they will take notice is if the rhetoric is stepped up a notch. People always sit up if the language of conversation becomes heated. They take notice. They begin to engage and listen to what is going on.

    Right now, I don’t think a good portion of the Scottish electorate know what is being said …by either side (and a lot of that is down to our wonderful media). I’ll bet that 50% of Scotland will never see that above clip, and therefore, are very unaware of what the UK Government is actually saying …that they are speaking with a forked tongue when it comes to Ireland and Scotland. They are having 2 very different conversations on the same subject matter and over the same causes and reasons. But yet Scotland gets treated very differently.

    I have no doubt that the SNP are gathering all the information that can be used as a case for independence, but unless the average person out there really understands what is being said …they’ll just see it as sabre-rattling by the SNP. There has to be a much more stern line like the one that Alex Salmond took this afternoon (and that was the point of my argument at mid-day! This is what we need now – all the time! The quiet reasoned debate with Westminster is more or less over) We have got to that stage. I can see it. You can see it …but does Joe Public see it? Hopefully, with a speech like Alex’s today, then it will finally begin to hit home. If something is delivered sternly like it was today, which then leads to a furious response, then folk will begin to ask who Dominic Raab is; what is that can’t be fixed, but by the sounds of things, it clearly can …what is actually being said? Why is the UK Government not listening to Scotland?

    And you never know, if a more stern line is definitely taken, one of the Unionist MP’s may make the mistake of actually speaking their mind. Such a mistake could be gold dust to our cause.

  179. Orri says:

    If anything the Kay Burley gaffe may genuinely have been her being taken in by the Mooth’s glee at so few opting for indyref2 in the next two years as meaning anything.

  180. galamcennalath says:

    shug says:

    We really need a list of how Westminster betrayed the union
    The message to be clear is Westminster destroyed the union

    For me the biggest ‘contribution’, made to the impending destruction of the Union was Cameron making the NO win in 2014 completely null and void.

    In less than two years he erased the entire NO winning prospectus.

    Everything … the promises made, the guaranteed EU membership, the partnership of equals, Scotland leading the Union…. every argument the Union used to win, positive or negative, has evaporated. Gone!

  181. Vestas says:

    There’s a fairly amusing recording of a call between Sky News & some tory minister about 6 years ago regading Burley. I think it was reported on order-order first but can’t remember.

    The tl;dr of it is the tory minister saying that he’s not being interviewed by Burley because she’s thick as pigshit, has the attention span of a goldfish and can barely read the autocue, regardless of how slow it is.

    I wish I could find it, he has her exact.

  182. yesindyref2 says:

    @Orri
    But the poll didn’t show that did it! The panelbase poll showed 50% in favour of Indy Ref 2 within or in 2 years.

  183. Cactus says:

    We are Scotland.

    We are amazing.

    We are.
    X.

  184. uno mas says:

    Kay Burley!

    That would be this Kay Burley would it?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xco7o7-uTiI

  185. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    JLT @ 17:33,

    Yes, as earlier, I tend to agree with your basic premise.

    NS & Co. have had to walk a fine line.

    To appear ultra-reasonable over Brexit in order to avoid being successfully characterised by Ruthie & Co as “divisive” and “just out for themselves”. (Which of course they try.) In order to rally behind her as many people of all persuasions as possible.

    But there is a limit to how far the focus-led pussy-footing can take matters. It’s essentially a passive rather than active strategy. It can only go so far, then (as AS mentioned in the HoC) the gauntlet just has to be picked up.

    Ordinary people need to be confronted by what’s being foisted upon them without their consent, and see people standing up to defend them fearlessly and resolutely. With passion and principle.

    Easier said than done, I don’t doubt, but that’s where the real gains are to be found, rather than the current position-holding.

    Rock and roll. And before too much longer.

  186. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT But I have just realised that 2017 has yet another excuse for a right royal knees up as it it the Queen’s sapphire anniversary – give me strength!

  187. art1001 says:

    Just watched Alex’s speech on youtube twice. You need to do that to get its full impact.

    Its a masterpiece. He was not shouted down at all. Only supportive interventions. It should rightly terrify many the English MPs who will now see IndyRef2 as likely unwinnable for them and therefore force them to reconsider this whole Brexit as a least worst option.

    Brexit they could survive – just. Scottish Independence will be ‘the end of everything’ for them.

    I just hope he has not persuaded too many and they proceed down the rabbit hole. Brexit is our ticket out.

  188. Thrawn says:

    @ Derek M
    Health tourism…I always love how often when a scenario such as this arises, fanationalists who ordinarily would be quick to scream blue murder how much the english are not to be trusted are willing to put that aside when it suits them…once rUK is out the EU what is to stop it refusing to reimburse the Scottish NHS..obviously we would do the same for scots in england but if we kept our system free at point of use and rUK moved to a health insurance model then what would we do…deny treatment to anyone with an english accent?

    Upping the fuel bill to England…ok…you do realise how electricity works and that scotland doesn’t actually own the oil and gas that is sold to the power stations…we could of course put a tariff on it but all that would happen then is that the oil/gas producers would sell to 3rd party would then sell it on to UK bypassing our tariff

    Finally…do you really believe that if something is far cheaper in rUK than its cost in Scotland it wont get sold in massive amounts …you only have to look at illegal cigarettes and booze (and that is with the fucking Channel in the way) to see that that is wishful thinking in the extreme

  189. yesindyref2 says:

    I see the Greens are backing off and are going to abstain on the budget. BBC and Herald.

    Now it’s open season on the Unionist parties, their policies rejected by the electorate by more than 2 to 1, yet stil trying to force their manifefsto on the Government.

  190. yesindyref2 says:

    @Thrawn “english” and “england”.

    Exposing the anti-englishness of the Unionists.

  191. Marie Clark says:

    Nana, you’re a star. Thanks as always for the youtube of a certain Mr A. Salmond’s speech. What a powerful speaker Oor Eck is, and nice to see him skelp that twerp Burley. YAY.

    call me dave, sorry to hear that, but welcome back. We’re gonnae need all hands tae the pumps gie soon by the look o’ things.

    geeo, thank’s for Eck & Burley. Your daft dug’s comment was aboot right I think.

  192. JLT says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    Cheers mate.

    My personal view, (and from I’m seeing in your post), is that a period of grace had passed. During this earlier period, the SNP asked politely for a proposal to be looked at, and it was basically ignored. In fact, proposals, opinion …even our Referendum result …has been ignored.

    With the vote about to take place at 7 tonight, the British State is about to enter a new phase in British Politics and also that of Brexit. Therefore, the rhetoric of the SNP must also change. A much sterner line has to be taken.

    At some point, the arguments we need to put forward, will need to be passionate and accusatory. We might need to point fingers at several people and let it be known that they have not lived up to their promises, and that the British State absolutely does not care one iota for Scotland except for submarines, oil, whisky and a continued supply of recruits for the armed forces.

    The Yes Movement two years ago was a brilliant invention in promoting social justice, reasoned argument and a learning curve in political awareness. This next referendum will be nothing like that one. The next one is going to be bitter. Really bitter. Westminster will be throwing the kitchen sink at us in a final attempt to kill of Scottish nationalism. The last time, we tried to reason with the British State by offering currency union and a share of the debt. I cannot see the Scottish Government putting such offer on the table the next time round. We were told it wasn’t our Pound …so be it.

    The rhetoric has to change. It has to be seen that Scotland has had enough. That this ‘status quo’ or whatever it is, is no longer fit for purpose. A sterner voice after tonight must be the new benchmark in all conversations. To not do so… well …you can guess the future.

  193. Robert Peffers says:

    @yesindyref2 says: 1 February, 2017 at 3:51 pm

    “Emmanuel Cocher, French Consul General, said: “True to the Auld Alliance as well as our European bonds, France wants to invest in Edinburgh and Scotland.“

    Note to Thrawn – Of course Scotland has no friends in the EU. Aye! Richt!

    Now just why would France be setting up such Scottish links if France thought Scotland was just a region of England or was not a partner in the United Kingdom?

  194. Cactus says:

    Soz, seeing above, ah canny get the path name vrai from me moby.

    Bdtt.. HELP!

    It is fitting.

  195. K1 says:

    Here’s Alex’s speech again to save people scrolling up for Nana’s original posted link:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkyLvAfnkDk

  196. Cactus says:

    Ach well.

    We are awesome, we can-can do anything.

  197. TheBuchanLoony says:

    For the Alex Salmond v Kay Burley spat…if you go to the Sky News website and click on the ‘Politics’ tab, it was on there the last time I looked.

  198. TheBuchanLoony says:

    Actually it says Alex and Sarah-Jane Mee

  199. Marie Clark says:

    Aye Nana, terrific right enough. We really are very fortunate to have such a wonderful number of our MP’s who will fight Scotland’s corner.

    Mair power to them, it makes you fair proud to hear them, unlike the ither lot that we gave the royal order of the boot too at the last GE.

  200. Orri says:

    Actually, we or theoretically the Crown do own the oil and gas along with anything else in the sea or under land onshore or of. That’s why we get to not only charge them exploration license but also put a levy on anything they extract. It may also be argued that we own the fish in our seas as well.

  201. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland says: 1 February, 2017 at 4:37 pm:

    “Like JLT @ 12:34, I think we need far more of this kind of quiet but forceful outrage at what is being perpetrated upon us without our consent.”

    That post tells me neither you or JLT watch much Parliament TV. There are SNP MPs, MSPs and MEPs speaking up and doings very well indeed at every sitting. Rev Stu published the stats a while back and they showed the SNP were proportionately the most productive party in at least Westminster and Holyrood.

    These people are putting in great efforts at every sitting and there are some great speakers among them.

  202. heedtracker says:

    C4 teatime news going after Eddie Hitler for address fraud election wise in Stoke. Never heard any C4 news gimps reporting UKIP Scottish MEP Jabba The Hut Coburn and his no address at all in Scotland shyste.

  203. galamcennalath says:

    Yoons like to say IndyRef1 was divisive. Now Ruthie wittering about fratricide. No doubt that will be one of their chants, ‘splitting society’ etc.

    To my mind there was nothing divisive about the YES proposals. A straight forward proposition presented in a positive way. Everyone could look at the plan and make a rational decision on what was being said. No need to get het up.

    However, you certainly can’t say the same about the NO side. All fear mongering, threats, and negativity. That undoubtedly would cause bad feeling and divisions of the worst kind. No positive case for their Union at all.

    If Ruthie, her party, her allies, her backers, her media lackies, hadn’t thrown everything at undermining the democratic process in 2014, Scotland wouldn’t be in this mess!

  204. Joemcg says:

    According to Sky news just now Ian Murray is no longer the shadow Secretary of State for Scotland it’s someone called Dave Anderson MP for Blayden! Is that true?!

  205. Joemcg says:

    Ah ok sorry I thought it just happened tonight because of Murray’s rebellion!

  206. Cactus says:

    Rabb see wizbit, let me tell you this boy.. cheers ssson.

    “Ha ha this-a-way, ha ha that-a-way, ha ha this-a-way, my oh my!”

  207. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I clicked on the Philippa Whitford spech on the Rev’s Twitter link. The constant inane chatter from the tory benches, the muttering amongst themselves was disconcerting.

    The Tories really are a disgrace, but, of course, Bercow or whoever is in the Speaker’s chair will take no action – being disrespectful to the SNP is apparently allowed.

  208. Rock says:

    There can only be a “soft” border if an independent Scotland, like Ireland, remains outside Schengen.

    Scotland will be a new member of the EU, like it or not. Unless someone can show me Scotland’s name in the current list of members.

    It can stay out of the Euro by not entering the ERM.

    But would it be allowed to remain out of Schengen?

    Would it even want to remain out of Schengen?

    Membership of Schengen would definitely lead to a “hard” border with what is left of the “independent” UK.

  209. Robert Graham says:

    Followers of other pro-Independence web sites will be well aware of a recent arrival namely Thrawn , well its same pish different web site isn’t it dear ? .Now f/k off .

  210. galamcennalath says:

    Question. Has anything at WM the SNP have initiated, proposed, brought before WM, whatever …. ever actually been passed?

    Apart from making damn good points, and asking embarrassing questions, and highlighting transgressions of Unionists, have they actually ever influenced any law making or decisions?

  211. Shinty says:

    Dorothy – re ‘sapphire anniversary’

    saw that the other night (fair put mi aff ma tea)

  212. Robert Peffers says:

    @JLT says: 1 February, 2017 at 5:01 pm:

    “Being rather harsh there to begin with, Robert.”

    You are, of course, entitled to hold that opinion. Just as I am entitled to mine. There is nothing, “a bit harsh”, about pointing out a never ending tirade of people on Wings criticising the SG and the SNP even more than the Trolls do.

    What is more it is very, very unfair. Last night the SNP MPs were still in the house to the end of the sitting and each and every one that got a chance to speak did extremely well. Note what I just said, “every one of them that GOT to speak”.

    Could you not see the obvious sneering little biased arse in the speaker’s chair, who selects who gets to speak, deliberately keeping the Scots MPs back till the end?

    As I’ve pointed out so often they are being stifled by the Westminster Establishment. These will fight among themselves but if there is a threat to the Establishment they will stand together against the threat. And that Establishment includes what remains of Scottish opposition party MPS. The SNP are often disrespected by the speaker and talked over and jeered at by the English.

    They get the same treatment on TV and there press releases are either deliberately made to look bad or just ignored.

    Which is where the grass roots should be taking over where the elected representative are suppressed. It is our place to get the truth to those you claim are NOT getting the truth but in many cases wouldn’t know the truth it bit them. None so blind as those who will not see and none so deaf as those who will not hear.

    You can get both Holyrood and Westminster TV direct without it going through the MSM. Instead of being SG/SNP critics – as the old seaside postcard used to say, “Don’t just stand there – Do something.

    By the way – I’ve been a long time at this political activist game and if the SG/SNP were to become more strident and brash I can tell you exactly what you will find. “They politicians ir the same”. “Ah Dinna like yon Nicola Sturgeon”. “Thir jist tellin Lies – I read it in the Daily Wrecker”. Etc:Etc.

    It must be very disconcerting to the SNP MPs, MSPs and the SG in general when their claimed own supporters are the biggest source of criticism against them.

    The truth is that there is presently the best, and largest, group of Elected to office people it has been my pleasure to support in the long hard drag between 1946 and today. This present lot are the most likely to win Scotland’s freedom since I used to stand as a boy on Sundays at speakers corner at the foot of the Mound and listen to such as Wendy Wood, Canon Kenyon Wright and other early Scottish hero’s.

  213. Andrew McLean says:

    Thrawn

    What will stop the English renaging on its debts, is that actually your implied threat!
    I have just realised you must be a child, you see grownup governments don’t behave like that, in real life they will continue to trade, as will Europe with the ruk so long as the ruk meet the criteria.

    Within months of the American war of independence trade was established, within two years it was bigger than before, after the Irish broke away from the uk the Bank of England supported the Irish pound, up until they joined the euro.

    You are a rubbishy unionist, even I the worst winger on this forum destroy every stupid comment you make, you do know you are posting on Wings over Scotland, possibly the most intelligent political blog on the planet, and you come out with but but but, a big boy did it and ran away mister!

  214. Kupo says:

    The SNP amendment lost by 100-336 I think. I’m not surprised by this but it’s still so pathetic these so-called politicians, which I know I’m not alone in thinking this, voted this down not because they though it was the right thing to do but because it came from a SCOTTISH perspective. Did they ever stop to think their was a lot more to it than that (brexit) when they voted this way?

    YOu know it just goes to show, if they don’t want our input because we’re too scottish for them, heaven forbid, then we will just leave them to it in the very near future-independence.

  215. liz says:

    I know the Rev is planning a new crowd fund soon.

    We need to prepare for WBB 2.
    The Yoons will be out of the blocks soon, black hole, SNP honeymoon over. UK 4x the market of EU.

    Spain will block etc etc

  216. Legerwood says:

    Joemcg says:
    1 February, 2017 at 7:25 pm
    “”According to Sky news just now Ian Murray is no longer the shadow Secretary of State for Scotland it’s someone called Dave Anderson MP for Blayden! Is that true?!””

    ………..

    Where have you been? Mr Murray has not been the Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland for quite some time.

  217. Andrew McLean says:

    Rock

    Show us the hard borders in non shengen countries with the EU, because I can show you EU shengen countries that border non eu countries with no hard border!

    Nothing is absolutely definitive with the eu apart from the core fundamental rights.

  218. Rock says:

    The most stupid people on earth voted No to independence because they hated Alex Salmond.

  219. Rock says:

    Andrew McLean,

    “I can show you EU shengen countries that border non eu countries with no hard border!”

    Show me.

  220. davidb says:

    @ Andrew MacLean 3:33.

    Customs has a fair idea where the whisky goes – cos it pulls in over 3 billion a year in tax – but HMRC don’t know what the general trade movements are.

    On a VAT return you are required to indicate sales and purchases between EU states, but intraUK there is no such requirement.

    Fruit destined for Scotland could arrive at Southampton. Gets bought by a packing house. Is sold to Tesco, gets trucked up to Livingston. Is that a Scottish import from South Africa or from England?

    Harrods might buy a container load of Glenlivit water. They export it to a sheik in the Middle East. Is that a Scottish export to England or to the Middle East? Lidl sells Scottish Smoked Salmon. It is produced in Poland using fish farmed here. Is it Scottish or Polish? Does Tesco make a single VAT return or does each subunit make geographical returns?

    HMRC has industrial classifications, and National Statistics does try to track trade. But it is not possible given the totally free UK trade, and their being no requirement to record intraUK trade, to be certain what the trade flows are between the different bits of the UK.

    What we have an idea of is how much Scottish domiciled businesses export and import wrt other EU members. But we don’t know how much is reexported or imported and sold on here by operations elsewhere in the UK.

    Those bast@rds are already drip dripping this picture as bad for Scotland. We need to be knowledgeable and prepared to counter their arguments.

    I suspect we will directly import and export to other EU states once we are independent. I note that the Merc Dealers in Eire have been given a price reduction by Mercedes to stop sales leaching to the UK. I assume we will have dealers and agents for a lot of imports and exports which presently come in via a UK masterdealer after independence. Particularly if we are in the EU and rUK is not.

    We will need to grow our exports once we are independent. Our economy has been damaged by rUK interference since at least 1945. Its time we left them to sink on their own.

  221. Meindevon says:

    Salmond on BBC 24 news now.

  222. Rock says:

    Andrew McLean,

    “Nothing is absolutely definitive with the eu apart from the core fundamental rights.”

    The free movement of people is one of the core fundamental rights.

    Without that, no access to the single market.

    How can there be a “soft” border, with Scotland inside the single market and England outside?

    Would people and goods be allowed to flow freely between EU and non-EU via the Scottish backdoor?

  223. K1 says:

    This map clarifies The Schengen area, for ease of reference:

    EU Schengen states
    Non-Schengen EU states
    Non-EU Schengen states

    https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites/homeaffairs/files/e-library/docs/schengen_brochure/schengen_brochure_dr3111126_en.pdf

  224. DerekM says:

    Do you mean its not our oil because someone who did not own it sold it to their big oil pals,well you are kind of right it got stolen by tory wankers,though there is a solution we go full Ecuador on their asses and rewrite the contracts,if they are not happy they can sue us and kiss goodbye to any future contracts.

    Oh and nobody said the English are not to be trusted your government,political parties and parliament now that is a different story.

    And i have no idea how you conflate booze and fags two long shelf life narcotic products with what is a very short life product of vegetables then go on to suggest we will all be travelling to other countries to fill up our boots with GM veggies to sell on that well renowned vegetable black market,get real.

    You really want to know what you will be buying from the yanks,well you will be buying some of the thousands of tons of GM vegetable matter they bury in big pits every year since no fucker will buy it,but hey the old saying is true one is born every minute.

  225. Robert Peffers says:

    @yesindyref2 says: 1 February, 2017 at 5:12 pm:

    “Nick knack, Tory whack give Lord Soames a bone.
    That old man got rolling stone.”

    The old numptie did apologise but, as I suggested last night, the SG members should now, instead of shouting Here! Here!, shout Here! Boy!

  226. Meg merrilees says:

    Farage is an embarrassment – this is what some of our representation at Europe looks and sounds like – is it any wonder we maybe haven’t got the best deals on some occasions?

    Another MEP from London held up a sign behind his back saying that Farage’ was lying’.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38833590

    Depressing to hear Theresa Thatcher-May at PMQ’s with her strident voice belittling Corbyn with her, “He can lead a protest, I’m leading a country” jibe! Totally repulsive woman!

    Alex speech today was brilliant but listen to martin Docherty-Hughes yesterday – another brilliant speech from the SNP
    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/fe6bc3c9-5d0b-4808-ba0b-8ce9c08475c1

    Martin speaks at 22.23 yesterday Tues, Jan 21st.

  227. Meindevon says:

    Well that was a first I think. Alex Salmond was being supported in everything he said by another interviewee (one of the group that took the government to the Supreme Court). Two of them against one Tory. And the BBC gave Salmond the last word.

    I’m shocked and stunned.

  228. Garrion says:

    0:26, “if the Scots got their way”.

    That’s telling also.

  229. Lochside says:

    Looked at Alex Salmond’s brilliant and passionate speech…..with 183 views…..yeah we’re really getting the message out to the Scottish people.

  230. Jock McDonnell says:

    This alleged UK single market, doesn’t seem too wise to depend on it so heavily. We would be reliant on England’s success or failure, with a boom n bust track record.
    It seems unwise not to explore opportunities in the EU single market which is 10 times larger.

  231. tartanfever says:

    Christ on a bike ! Have you read this from Liam Fox.

    After been caught lying about the amount of inward investment into the UK since Brexit vote, he says this:

    ‘Fox defended alleged “fake news” claims about Britain’s ongoing attractiveness to inward investment since the Brexit vote, insisting the public needed cheering up with “good news”.

    The criticism arose after the Department for International Trade boasted of £16bn of additional projects coming to Britain since the referendum, only for it to emerge that the majority of the deals had been struck long beforehand.

    “I don’t regret it at all,” Fox said. “The more good news we give to the public, the better. It counters some of the black propaganda of those who are opposed to the referendum.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/01/liam-fox-dismisses-nhs-takeover-fears-as-us-trade-talks-begin

    HE LIED TO CHEER EVERYONE UP !

    I need a dram.

  232. JLT says:

    @ Robert Peffers

    You are, of course, entitled to hold that opinion. Just as I am entitled to mine. There is nothing, “a bit harsh”, about pointing out a never ending tirade of people on Wings criticising the SG and the SNP even more than the Trolls do.

    Robert, I wasn’t criticising. Nowhere did I criticise the SNP saying that they were doing a terrible job. What I said was that we need to take a more stern line. The time for quiet rhetoric is now over. We now need to move the argument beyond ‘Westminster isn’t listening’.

    Kay Burley for one, wasn’t holding back. If you’ve noticed, she went on the attack …we now really need to do the same. We can’t keep on defending our principles. That was one of the reasons we lost the last referendum. Rather than promoting what Scotland could be like, we ended up trying to defend a position of why we had a right to use Sterling. They put us on the backfoot, and they never let up on it.

    Now they are doing it again. This is my point. We need to go on the attack, simply because, they will.

    Look (soft tone here)…you say that I don’t see a lot Parliament on TV …yes, you’re most definitely correct. I’m at work from 8.30 to 6pm and always on the go. And if I’m not working, I’m studying …from 6 am to 8am and from 8pm to 10pm. You have no idea how limited my time is. There are times now, I don’t get on here as regular because my time is gone. So watching Parliament is a luxury.

    Look …I’m going to leave it at that. I really do need to get back to my next paper. I’ll probably see you on another post tomorrow. Best wishes for the rest of the evening.

  233. highseastim says:

    Surely David Mundell’s constituents will be looking for him to resign after voting against their wishes!!

  234. Macart says:

    Vote went entirely as expected I see. Including the SNPs amendment which apparently had some 200 abstentions… spooky. One more procedure down and just a couple more to go.

    Dot the ‘i’ and cross the ‘t’.

    Are we seeing the true nature of the ‘partnership’ yet folks? Steady…steady… steady in the line.

  235. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Robert Peffers @ 19:07:

    That post tells me neither you or JLT watch much Parliament TV.

    True that, for me anyway. I have a life!

    But that I think was the very point at issue. Not many ordinary folk do either. They don’t see the sterling work being done. How many people for example will even get a whiff of AS’s excellent speech this afternoon?

    But please do not take this as an attack on the SNP, RP. It’s not. I take your point about how stridency can go wrong, as I already recognised. It’s simply a discussion about strategy going forward.

    But there will come a time soon when people need a stronger lead than continued attempts at compromise within the UK. People need to be roused into feeling affronted at the cavalier way we are being trampled over. That’s the only way we will get over the 50% threshold.

    I’m sure the resident of Bute House is aware of all this too. It’s a fine judgement to have to make, and we all wish her well in the timing of it. But a showdown is coming. It has to.

  236. DerekM says:

    @ Lochside

    You do know anything like that on UK youtube gets the views doctored right?

  237. uno mas says:

    Word of the day……..

    Warmers!

    Aye your dead right Martin that´s excactly what they are a bunch of f@cking warmers.

    Another stand out speech from another member of our SNP representatives.

    Thank you, all of you for your considerable contribution to our fight.

  238. Rock says:

    Andrew McLean,

    “I can show you EU shengen countries that border non eu countries with no hard border!”

    Still waiting to be shown.

  239. Graeme says:

    You know the really heartening thing about listening to Alex speech and some of the other SNP speakers is watching Scots fighting back instead of cringing to their English masters like Dugdale, Davidison & Rennie etal

    Hopefully it will instill some self belief to feint hearted soft NO voters to believe in themselves and give Scotland a chance

    Graeme

  240. Robert Peffers says:

    @JLT says: 1 February, 2017 at 5:33 pm:

    “Apologies! I’ll re-write my post again. I tried to write it at work, but kept on getting disturbed, so parts of it read rather …odd. So …here we go again.”

    No need for apology. If we cannot criticise each other without it getting out of hand then who can?

    For My part I take it ill out that our own supporters are getting to be our greatest critics. I say, “our”, but I do not know if you are an SNP Member or not. The thing about the SNP is that it is unlike other parties. In that everyone really is equal in the party. We may make Nicola party leader, (we don’t get to make her FM as that is done by the parliamentary group).

    However, we as members do make party policy via the Annual Conference and on policy we have only one vote each. Obviously we all cannot go and vote in person or we would need to rent The National Football Stadium to hold us all.

    We de so via our branches and our Constituency Association delegates. and there everyone at conference has just one vote each. So my view is that if you really have to criticise the elected members then do it via the branch and constituency meetings.

    Don’t think for a moment that everyone reading Wings, or even commenting on Wings is a supporter of Indy and they are certainly not all SNP members or supporters. Those who are not will be heartened that Wings commenters are critical of the SG and SNP.

    I’ve already expressed my views that the present group that people, and remember those who voted for them may not even be Indy supporters or Scots. Long experience has shown there are weird reasons given for voting SNP.

    Mainly the public votes for those they think will best stand up for the particular voter’s own views. Mainly though most vote because the SNP are doing a good job running Scotland.

    It is thus not a good idea to criticise them on an open forum. It is counter productive. Anyway, the simple facts is the MPs, MSPs, MEPs and Councillors are generally working their socks off and often getting slagged off by their own supporters who seem not to realise that their criticisms are, for the most part, unjustified.

    It is hardly the elected person’s fault that what they say and do for Scotland goes unreported, is distorted and lied about and thus they must feel very unappreciated.

    Then there is the fact that in most cases the critic has not even bothered to seek out the truth. A truth they are no more likely to get from the MSM, broadcasters and Unionist workmates or family than are the more ignorant members of the public.

    Note too that being ignorant of the truth is not being stupid it is simply not being informed. BTW: It would not be the first time I disagreed, face to face, with an SNP leader, MP, MEP or Councillor – but I did it within the party.

    “… They don’t see the arguments like you and I do. The only way they will take notice is if the rhetoric is stepped up a notch. People always sit up if the language of conversation becomes heated.”

    The point is that while they very well may sit up and take notice they may not react the way you seen to imagine they will.

    If they have, and most of them will have, the impression that all politicians are rogues, actors, liars and in it for what they can get out of it, then all that turning up the heat will do is reinforce their negative impressions.

    And believe me they will get every bit of help to do so by the Dead Tree Trolls, TV pundits and radio hacks.

  241. Shinty says:

    Oh my goodness – just came across the express article on the vote – no idea how I got there, honest.

    However, thought I’d have a peek at the comments… kind of weird feeling that I actually share a planet with these people. Life is too short for that kind of hate.

  242. Orri says:

    panelbase.com/media/polls/W7181w9tablesforpublication300117.pdf

    27% for indyref2 whilst the Brexit negotiations are going on
    23% after they’ve finished, so just over 2 years, although that’s flexible.
    51% not in the next few years.

    Says nothing about the proportion who don’t want an indyref2 at all.

    However note the over abundance of English responses. Depending on how they adjusted the results for the demographics there might still be biases that can’t be completely removed.

  243. JLT says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    Robert – if you don’t mind me asking, and you just need to say No without giving away your location – you don’t live in Torphichen by any chance?

  244. Valerie says:

    Sorry off topic, but this is brilliant.

    Lorna Wallace of Kilmarnock has won a poetry competition in New Zealand with this.

    —————

    A Scot’s Lament fur her American Fellows (Oan their election of a tangerine gabshite walloper

    America, aw whit ye dain?!
    How could ye choose a clueless wain
    Ti lead yir country? Who wid trust
    A man sae vile?!
    A racist, sexist eedjit
    Wi a shite hairstyle?

    Yet lo, ye votit (michty me!)
    Ti hawn’ this walloper the key
    Ti pow’r supreme, ti stert his hateful,
    Cruel regime.
    A cling ti hope that this is aw
    Jist wan bad dream.

    But naw, the nightmare has come true,
    A curse upon rid, white an’ blue,
    An’ those who cast oot Bernie
    Must feel sitch regret
    Fur thinkin’ Mrs. Clinton
    Was a safer bet.

    So noo we wait ti see unfold
    Division an’ intolerance, cold;
    A pois’nous bigotry untold
    Since Hitler’s rule
    As the free world’s hopes an’ dreams
    Lie with this fool.

    Alas, complainin’ wullnae change
    The fact this diddy has free range
    Ti ride roughshod ow’r human beings
    That fall outside
    The cretinous ideals borne of
    His ugly pride.

    Awch USA, we feel yir woes
    An’ pour oor wee herts oot ti those
    Who ken this oarange gabshite isnae
    Who they chose,
    But jist sit tight;
    Trump’s cluelessness
    Will time expose.

    Fur sittin’ there beside Obama
    Efter the election drama,
    Trump looked like reality
    Had finally hit:
    Aboot the role of president
    He knew Jack shit.

    Poutin’, glaikit through this farce,
    His mooth wis pursed up like an arse,
    His Tangoed coupon glowin’ like
    A skelped backside.
    Despite all his bravado
    Trump looked keen ti hide.

    Let’s therefur no despair an’ greet,
    Or see this outcome as defeat.
    Let’s wait an’ watch this bampot
    Flap his hawns an’ squirm
    When presidential pressures
    Crush him like a worm.

    Hawd oan ti values you hold dear,
    Don’t let this numpty bring yi fear,
    His chants of hatred don’t speak fur
    The human race.
    Love will endure despite this
    Oarange-faced disgrace.

    So USA, in ma conclusion,
    Know we Scots feel your confusion:
    We are also chained ti those
    Not of oor choosin’ .
    Stand firm fur unity will break
    Through Trump’s delusion

  245. Thepnr says:

    @DerekM

    “You do know anything like that on UK youtube gets the views doctored right?”

    I’d vouch for that, I posted on Wings about it in 2014 after when I’d saw a pro-indy video number of views go down half an hour after I’d looked earlier.

  246. Meg merrilees says:

    Alex Salmond has said that he thinks the Queen might tr to get round the Trump state visit problem by hosting it at Balmoral!!!

    Well and truly rub our faces in it! Purr, purr, purr…

    He thinks that the risk of disruption by demonstrations would be too great in London but nevertheless, he is confident that there would be protestors even if it is held in Balmoral.

  247. JLT says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Cheers mate. Glad to finish on a nice note. I should be studying but tonight, I’m just not in the mood – hence being here more that I should. However, you’ll be glad to know as a historian, that I’m studying the social class of the early nineteenth century – it’s a right barrel of laughs. Uuuurgh…..

    Anyway, thanks again! Catch you later.

  248. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Graeme @ 21:20,

    Yes, that’s my feeling too. Leading by example.

    (The main difficulty there of course is somehow giving them an opportunity to see it, instead of nauseatingly large doses of RenDaDug.)

  249. DerekM says:

    @ Thepnr

    They also lose subscribers and notifications,plus you just need to sniff at a politics tube and your are inundated in recommends to hair brained right wing nut jobs like infowars and has gang of zoomer clones all telling you how the trump had a presidential fart this morning and Clinton is satan and anything not red neck yeahhh hillbilly yankee doodle dandy is communist.

    As you can guess i cause mayhem hehe.

  250. galamcennalath says:

    Scotland and Northern Ireland have every reason to refuse to be dragged into the morass of negative consequences into which English right-wing Tories and English tabloid newspapers and English xenophobia are plunging us. Along with many who campaigned to keep the Union together at the time of the Scottish independence referendum, I would now strongly support it: Brexit is an irrational and damaging project, and there is no reason why a strongly pro-EU Scotland should be forced to eat the rubbish that the Brexiteers are seeking to serve up.

    http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/brexit_will_wipe_uk_out_of_history_it_will_no_longer_be_the_uk_1_4873001

    More and more influential people saying Scotland should just go its own way.

    This won’t happen, of course, but WM should be told to just keep out of IndyRef2. None of their business. The decision should be for Scots and no one else.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if the EU told WM to leave it up to the Scots.

    Just dreaming 🙂

  251. One_Scot says:

    Wow, The National front page tomorrow pulls no punches

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/826907377794445312

  252. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Valerie (9.27) –

    🙂

  253. yesindyref2 says:

    @Heed
    Research for The Sunday Post by ScotPulse has found 59% of voters would vote Yes, with 32% opting for No, and 9% remaining unsure.

    Respondents were asked: If there was a referendum tomorrow with the question ‘Should Scotland be an independent country ?’ how would you vote?

    Eliminating DKs that’s 65% YES, 35% NO.

    Wonder which will be the first title breaking cover …

  254. Graf Midgehunter says:

    The Daily Record article is from 26 June 2016…

  255. Ken500 says:

    Dominic Raab backed Michael Gove for Tory leadership, after back stabbing Boris Johnston. Up stepped May making the most of the state of the Tory Party. ‘Rats in a sack’ . Raab was sacked by Teresa Jay from a Gov post. Gove is reported to have trued to persuade Teresa May for Raab to stay in the post. A few years ago, Dominic Raab describes ‘feminists’ as ‘obnoxious bigots’, causing a bit of an outcry.

    The Tories to take the UK out of the EU. Destroying the UK economy and putting up borders with the EU. Trade borders and tariffs. Putting up prices, the cost of living. Lowering living standards. Brexit is just an excuse to fleece the public, so the Tories and their associates can tax evade. Brandon is supposed to be retired to Necker. A tax exile not longer paying UK taxes. He has got a brass heck, illegally, interfering in the Scottish economy. Trying to influence Scottish Government policy, to advantage his business.

    The railways should be improved in Scotland for shorter journeys. It take 1.30 hours to get from London to Birmingham. It takes 2.30 hours to get from Edinburgh or Glasgow to Aberdeen. A similar journey. Much longer to Inverness. Branson should be lowering times for train journeys in Scotland, not complaining about abolishing ADT. Increasing visitors numbers and raising more revenues. The visitor will use trains and the trams during their stay.

  256. Phronesis says:

    Trump will have to climb a mountain of inequality to pull up the bottom 50% of income earners in the US if he is going to make America great again (unless he means America the Great for a select few).

    ‘the average annual income of the bottom 50% has stagnated at about 16000 dollars per adult (expressed in constant dollars 2015), while the average income of the top 1% rose from 27 times to 81 times this amount, that is from a little over 400 000 dollars in 1980 to over 1,3 millions dollars in 2014’

    http://piketty.blog.lemonde.fr/2017/01/11/wid-world-a-new-approach-to-inequality/

    UKOK isn’t far behind the US in its ability to impoverish the majority of its electorate.Maybe UKOK will put its low earners to good use and in the spirit of Dickensian Britain have the children out labouring too and build a Brexit sea wall to keep the undesirables out.

  257. Ken500 says:

    Dominic Raab backed Michael Gove for Tory leadership, after back stabbing Boris Johnston. Up stepped May making the most of the state of the Tory Party. ‘Rats in a sack’ . Raab was sacked by Teresa Jay from a Gov post. Gove is reported to have trued to persuade Teresa May for Raab to stay in the post. A few years ago, Dominic Raab describes ‘feminists’ as ‘obnoxious bigots’, causing a bit of an outcry.

    The Tories to take the UK out of the EU. Destroying the UK economy and putting up borders with the EU. Trade borders and tariffs. Putting up prices, the cost of living. Lowering living standards. Brexit is just an excuse to fleece the public, so the Tories and their associates can tax evade. Brandon is supposed to be retired to Necker. A tax exile not longer paying UK taxes. He has got a brass heck, illegally, interfering in the Scottish economy. Trying to influence Scottish Government policy, to advantage his business.

    The railways should be improved in Scotland for shorter journeys. It take 1.30 hours to get from London to Birmingham. It takes 2.30 hours to get from Edinburgh or Glasgow to Aberdeen. A similar journey. Much longer to Inverness. Branson should be lowering times for train journeys in Scotland, not complaining about abolishing ADT. Increasing visitors numbers and raising more revenues. The visitor will use trains and the trams during their stay.

  258. yesindyref2 says:

    Had me going for a minute there Heed till I checked the date

    “26 JUN 2016”

  259. Stoker says:

    Newbies and lurkers:

    Try and avoid the deliberate direct link in the comment at 10:03pm by this sites biggest BUM bandit, heedtracker. That rag shat all over Scotland but people like heedtracker repeatedly help it to promote its clickbait traps and con you into helping to finance its programme of anti independence tripe.

  260. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Notice how, in the 10.30pm edition of Shortbread TV, neither big Jackie or the reporter on th ground at Westminster could bring themselves to identify Fluffy as the one Scottish MP who backed the government.

    OK, we all knew it was him, but, I got the impression Jackie and the boay had been telt: “Don’t use the T word”.

  261. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Will oor Nicola now announce the date of IndyRef2 at the SNP Spring Conference in Aberdeen in March???

    Go for it Nicola!!!

  262. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    JLT @ 21:25,

    O/T Alas, no. It’s well after the clearances, so there are again a lot of RJS’s around in Scotland, I suppose! =laugh=

  263. Lenny Hartley says:

    BBC Scotland Tells Lies Only if Article 50 has been triggered by then.

  264. Breeks says:

    So what happens now?

    Can we expect big announcements from Bute House tomorrow?

  265. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    The National front page:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3nD3UeXUAYy3zk.jpg

  266. Meg merrilees says:

    Joanna Cherry twitter –
    ‘ Tories wandering around slapping each other on the back. The fools don’t realise that’s two unions they’ve broken tonight.”

    O/T
    https://www.rt.com/usa/375981-iran-on-notice-white-house/

    This is a worrying development – have been watching this situation for a few days now. Israel and Iran sabre-rattling and now accusations from USA that Iran has breached a UN resolution by testing a ballistic missile.

    US has put Iran ‘on notice’…. ( of what?) Russia says Iran has not breached the UN resolution. Iran is accusing US of increasing tension in the area.

    Iran says it will resume it’s nuclear programme if US cancels the recent deal also want to take some stance against trump’s travel ban.
    Iraq also wants to take a stance against US after the travel ban.
    Israel has said it prefers Al Qaeda to Hezbollah, so we could have Israel and Al Qaeda siding up against Iran and Hezbollah with the US and Russia having to choose accordingly.

  267. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Breeks

    I think there will be hint after hint that the date will be announced in March at the SNP Conference.

    Building up to an eruption of joy.

    Go Nicola!!!

  268. Gary45% says:

    Andrew McLean@7.56
    “I the worst winger on this forum”
    Sorry mate that’s my title.

    A scary thought, as Westminster/UK corporate has rolled over and handed money to America at the slightest suggestion of a law suit i.e The Gulf of Mexico,(caused by Americans, as was the global banking crash) anyone else think Angerland could be the new cash cow for The Trumpenators government? of course funded by Scotland.
    “We must have some sort of use in the Empire”

  269. Nana says:

    Thought you might like to watch Alex Salmond earlier this evening putting Mr Raab right on a few issues

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqNd_GrdQuE&feature=youtu.be&t=269

    Goodnight all

  270. manandboy says:

    Couldn’t help but notice the number of times MP’s used the word’country’ to describe the UK. That’s brainwashing right there.

  271. yesindyref2 says:

    Ian Blackford was good on STV earlier. Another asset.

  272. louis.b.argyll says:

    Yes, whatever the SNP do, it should come from conference.

  273. Cadogan Enright says:

    Naughty Heedtracker archive of Daily Record 59% back independence http://archive.is/uTdA0

  274. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Must say, I enjoyed Hannah Bardell’s take on “Choose” from Trainspotting in her speech in the Brext debate.

    She got her points across effectively.

  275. Meg merrilees says:

    Mundell is a tractor.

    Love The National front page.

    FMQ’s should be a corker tomorrow! Don’t miss it.

    When is the budget vote?

  276. Joemcg says:

    The Herald front page tomorrow is a shocker. Fallon is attempting to block Indyref2.

  277. Ken500 says:

    US top earners 20%

    Middle incomes 51%

    Lower incomes 29%

    Reported average household earning $51,000

    Average wage earning $40,000 The highest paid increases the average earnings rate. The top 1%. Gaining the most. The US is the second most unequal country in the world. With underlining poverty.

    Obamacare? $5,000 per person a year. Increasing 16% a year. Compulsory? With limited rebate. $500 (tax relief?) for those on below average earnings. Children Health insurance. Obamacare was not funded by public money. An Independent Liberal senator only agree to pass the Bill if it was not funded with public money.

    There is a public Medicare for the elderly and those on lower incomes. For those States who subscribe and fund it. Medicare has a massive deficit of liabilities.

    Households have to pay Federal taxes (payroll tax?) A set rate 10% of all incomes. The burden falls the heaviest on those of lower income. Not progressive. State tax. Depending on where people live.

    Households have to pay rent or mortgages, nursery care, school and Universities fees. Take out massive Uni loans unless they can get a scholarship.

    People even on above earning are in debt. Many households have different credit card debts.The US has the highest debt ratio in the world. Always increasing.

    In the US the power lines go above ground. In the UK they are underground. In the US many houses are made of wood. Not very highly manufactured. When storms come – hurricanes. They are more easily blown down. Most average households live in larger properties.compared to Europe.

    Trump is calling out Germany but his father was German. Maybe it is because the German authorities refused to let Trump’s father return to Germany. Refusing the necessary visa.

    The only way Trump could cut the US budget and make the economy better off would be to stop the illegal invasions in the Middle East etc. Cutting the the US Defence budget. He was against the illegal Iraqi invasion. Called the politicians -‘stupid’. 2003. He lost $Millions in the Banking crash. I,e. ‘More bankers should be put in jail. Not bailed out’. Statements. 2008. He has invested $Millions in Scotland. He couldn’t raise funding for the completed Trump Development because of the Banking crash. No banks were lending money. The finances/investment dried up.

    Cut Trident. A total waste of money. It will be going if people vote YES in another IndyRef. Trump has invested £Millions in Scotland. Scotland will lose £Billions of revenues and jobs, if Scotland is illegally and non democratically taken out of the EU. Especially against it’s will. Regardless of borders. Brexit will make everything worse. If Scotland is not out of the UK when the Article 50 negotiation are to start. It could take years doing immense damage the the world economy.

  278. Chick McGregor says:

    @Nana, Alex has been nothing short of superb this week (not that he ever is, of course).

    Hope when indyref2 is announced Nicola will gie him the reins o the campaign.

  279. yesindyref2 says:

    I think we’ll be seeing a Herald BMG poll soon.

    Mmm, with that Herald front page, I think the Unionists will be frothing with delight. Might just let them do the job for us.

  280. DerekM says:

    Jings Eck laid down the gauntlet with a cry of tory pish,yon wee creepy tory guy just got a political pasting,even the wee Labour lass was getting tore in.

  281. One_Scot says:

    Tonight my son told me he has to do a newspaper style report about the Battle of Stirling Bridge in school tomorrow.

    He told me he was going to use ‘Wow’ words, ‘ingenuity’ and ‘cunning’, and I thought, you know what, that’s Scotland’s future right there. He’s only nine years old, and he is already smarter than me.

    Scotland, don’t let our children down. Our time is now. Grab it with both hands.

  282. Capella says:

    What’s changed today:D

    Great news. I watched most of the fiasco in Parliament today. Apart from some excellent speeches by the SNP and a few others, the whole shambles looked like “welcome to the 50s”. Grim.

    So what has changed is BREXIT.

  283. Joemcg says:

    Just for the rev. cos I know he’s a big fan of the tribute act, “and the cry was no defenders!!”

  284. yesindyref2 says:

    @Capella and others
    That was a poll from June, just after the EU Ref.

  285. ian m says:

    So will this month be quiet as well ?

    Rev I don’t think quiet means what you think it means

  286. Joemcg says:

    Anyone on twitter following wings check it out. A very upset female Rangers fan in Edinburgh tonight. Priceless.

  287. HandandShrimp says:

    Is the Herald stirring it or are they genuinely fluffing for the Tories?

    Being told to “forget it” by one of the blandest, most boring and forgettable Ministers (I can’t remember what he is Minister of) since whatshisname is like a red rag to a bull.

  288. Breeks says:

    I’m not in the SNP, but I hope somebody who is raises the issue at conference of Scotland’s improperly subjugated sovereignty, so that the democratic process which pursues independence by popular consent is shadowed at every step but a contingency legal process to re-establish and ring fence the legitimacy of Scotland’s inalienable sovereignty, with or without the supporting democratic ratification of a referendum.

    If Scotland, by decree in Scots Law, is prevented from abdicating or deferring Scotland’s sovereignty before a superior authority, then that legal distinction opens an important fissure in Westminster’s assertion of parliamentary sovereignty. Westminster has no such thing.

    If we do not do this, in the event Scotland was to lose a second referendum, by fair means or foul, we would risk having our legitimate sovereignty left hostage to the vagrancy of an electoral majority rather than the primacy of legal legitimacy seems reckless and grossly remiss.

    I still do not understand the SNP strategy for Independence which does NOT champion the appropriate recognition of Scotland’s sovereignty. If Westminster’s sovereignty is flawed and built upon the essential misappropriation of Scotland’s sovereignty, and it seems more than credible to assume it is, then that error remains an error, even if it has somehow managed to survive 300 years of observed convention. It is still wrong.

    We have documented evidence for the formal establishment of Scotland’s constitutional arrangements from inception, and we can follow it’s thread through 700 years of well documented and unbroken provenance, including the flawed and improper subjugation of Scottish sovereignty before England’s Divine sovereignty via the Act of Union. We can and should make such a case, because it has truth and legitimacy which Westminster simply cannot match. When do these issues, our mightiest Dreadnoughts, put to sea?

  289. Meg merrilees says:

    Herald front page now online.

  290. heedtracker says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    1 February, 2017 at 10:27 pm
    @Heed

    Cadogan Enright says:
    1 February, 2017 at 11:20 pm
    Naughty Heedtracker archive of Daily Record 59% back independence

    It is fascinating watching England slowly realising what they’ve done, and its not a joyous reaction. Populism says bring back hanging but when they place the noose round that first condemned neck…

    UKOK tory BBC led propaganda is going to have to work really hard now to keep things super and loverly in merry olde England.

    If Scotland was a brand, we have had our brand destroyed by likes of our BBC chums but only for Scots consumption. Now everyone has got to look at Scotland a lot more closely, as an escape route.

  291. Clapper57 says:

    Watching and listening to Rona Dougall on Scotland Tonight interviewing Mundell, who was on screen ‘live’ from London, I could not help but think she would have been as well interviewing a fcuking monkey in a chair eating a banana than trying to get anything that resembled honesty from this bumbling fool.

    The master bumbler of erratic speech, who consistently trips up over his words to try and hide the deceit he so miserably fails to conceal courtesy of the over used vast catalogue of Union catchphrases and cliches that he and others regularly spew out.

    An interview that took precious fcuking minutes off my life, deficient in information as per from a FFS Fake-Scottish Secretary, who is actually just a subservient arse licker to his masters down south, who quite frankly are probably just as fcuking sick of him down there as we are up here.

    They also had that Scots Labour guy, an Mp for Brent North, called Barry whats his fcuking face on again, obvs reading from the same list/script as Mundell …..politics for dummies and only real fcuking dummies could/would be fooled…………….. for sure.

  292. Stoker says:

    manandboy wrote on 1 February, 2017 at 11:06 pm

    “Couldn’t help but notice the number of times MP’s used the word’country’ to describe the UK. That’s brainwashing right there.”

    It’s also growing more prevalent by the day in tv programming and programme synopsis. Not just the false use of ‘UK’ as a country but also the use of ‘Britain’ as a country.

    It’s not just brainwashing but a very deliberate and concerted effort to erode our identities and create a false “Brit” one.

    It’s not just Scotland this is happening to but the English and Welsh need to wake up and smell the proverbial coffee, their identities are also being eroded right before their very eyes.

    I’ve focused on the worst offender, The BBC, but i can assure you certain commercial channels such as ITV, CH 4 (Westminster owned) and CH 5 can be just as bad.

    Here are some examples of programme descriptions (synopsis) from this weeks tv schedules:

    BBC 4: Britain’s Most Fragile Treasure
    “Historian Dr Janina Ramirez unlocks the secrets of a centuries-old masterpiece in glass, the East Window at York Minster, the largest medieval stained-glass window in the country.”

    Lots of similar examples can be found without too much effort.
    Then we get the other style of synopsis:

    BBC 2: Hospital
    6 Episodes. “The day-to-day realities facing the NHS. The hospital’s overseas officer, Terry, tries to recoup money from patients on the ward who are not UK residents.”

    Note what you’re not told – they’re giving the impression that it is one NHS throughout the ‘UK’ etc.

    I could go on all night but i just wanted to support your observation and confirm this very deliberate erosion of all our identities in the establishments determination to mould a fake race.

  293. North chiel says:

    “Joemcg@1125pm” Does this indicate that ” the tanks” possibly
    are being ” fuelled up”??

  294. Capella says:

    @ Yesindyref2 – yes I noticed that after I posted. Nevermind. I think after today’s farce people will be waking up to what BREXIT really means and their initial reaction was the right one. I thought the SNP speakers were brilliant today. The gauntlet is well and truly picked up.

    I also watched the Committee for Exiting the EU and listened to a panel completely demolish the arguments against immigration put forward by Hilary Benn and Michael Gove. Cheering to watch!

  295. HandandShrimp says:

    Fluffy is a particularly invidious position because unlike Ruth who seems to be a born again Brexiteer, Mundell looks distinctly uncomfortable anywhere near Brexit.

    He is however a company man and will do as he is told without question and consequently is deserving of derision.

  296. yesindyref2 says:

    @H&S “Is the Herald stirring it or are they genuinely fluffing for the Tories?”

    Don’t know. Their article faithfully quotes Fallon, while also quoting Davidson who said that the UK Government shouldn’t: “go round threatening to block a second referendum”, and Dugdale saying something similar.

    Yet they misquote that poll as being support has dropped to 27%, instead of correcting it to say 50%.

    Playing both sides perhaps, see what happens. Or stirring it.

  297. Tam Jardine says:

    What a preposterous business. I feel a certain conflict in all this- with my yes hat on I am delighted at the UK government doing everything in her power to disenfranchise Scotland and promote Scottish Independence.

    As a human being the sheer folly and needless economic vandalism, the cultural vandalism, the intellectual vandalism dismays me. Where xenophobia has superseded all economic considerations.

    I just watched Newsnight and must have blinked at the appropriate second where Scotland was mentioned- you would not know to have watched it that Scottish MP after Scottish MP launched blistering speeches against brexit in the chamber and that the sole Scottish representatives of labour, lib dems, the 2 independent (former SNP) MPs and 50 SNP MPs were voted down on both motions by one single solitary tory.

    Words fail me. For those of you familiar with John Carpenter’s “The Thing” you will know where I am coming from. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar are tied to their chairs while this alien radge goes crazy in the next seat. Well- Brexit was that blood test and in this metaphor unfortunately England is The Thing.

    My message to no voters is simple: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time, I’d rather not spend the rest of this winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!

    (you tube it if you wish- it seems a little unpleasant and violent to post on this family friendly forum)

  298. Meg merrilees says:

    Stoker @12.14

    Getting harder by the day to buy non-british food in the supermarkets.

    Am now eating loose veg and eggs from a local farm shop ( better quality) fish from the fish van that travels down from Arbroath twice a week, meat from the local butcher. Jarlsberg was one of the few cheeses without a Union flag on it in the supermarket tonight..

    Sadly there is a spanking new Butcher’s Apron flying on Stilring Castle in recent days.

  299. Tackety Beets says:

    Hi Chic ,

    I agree , we have mutual admiration for Alex, and without doubt many others here.

    Sadly he struggles with “th” and always says “f” I jest ! Smiley fing .

    However My real fear would be the ” a dinnae like yon Samun” folk , how we forget?

    However I would fully support him being the man behind the scenes orchestrating things ?

    Delighted to see him on occasion as he is without doubt excellent. There are others in the fold now who are also a huge asset

    The Yes group needs to search out someone not affiliated to SNP but politically and factually very knowledgeable ……. a Rev Campbell esque person .

    We need someone who has a full grasp of “facts” so they can properly brief candidates prior to interview who will be more assertive , like Alex was in clip posted by Nana , to refute the lies or as we say factual inexactitudes !

  300. Meg merrilees says:

    I think they are stirring it to try and force Nicola-the-wise to go for an early referendum.
    Underneath they are terrified.
    OR

    If legit, then perhaps they think they can at least delay it till 2020, by which time we would be out of the EU, the Great Repeal Bill would give them power to dissolve Holyrood and the question would be eradicated in perpetuity. Nicola would have no redress through Europe.
    I know the Sewel Convention is supposed to preserve Holyrood’s permanence but these are desperate Tories and will try anything. I hope i’m wrong.

    But for once (t)Ruthless is right – they will just up the support for Indy.

    The gloves are definitely off.

    PS – I notice they describe Fallon as ‘Perth born’ so it is extra sweet that another Scot will tell us to put up and shut up.

    He’s another ("Tractor" - Ed).

  301. yesindyref2 says:

    So in the biggest disaster for Scotland since the NO vote, where the UK is going to drag Scotland out of the EU, Westminster sends up in more ways than one the Tory Fallon, to give us a £3.6 million (not billion) school as a distraction.

    How fecking generous.

  302. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Re Snackbeard, the HoC Brexit vote and today’s front page in The National, I can’t but help recall my Scots history from the time of The Bruce.

    He’s the modern “toom tabard”: the empty jacket, the hollow man.

    What a pathetic last holder ever of the office of Scottish Secretary he is promising to be.

  303. Stoker says:

    Meg merrilees on 2 February, 2017 at 12:39 am:

    Yes, i’ve noticed, well, hard not to, eh! I’m doing something similar. I get the majority of my meat products from my butcher, it’s more expensive but worth every penny, eggs have always been the free range 15 in a green box type with the Saltire on them.

    I never ever buy pre-packed fruit and veg, especially in those plastic net bags (i would outlaw them, GRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrr). And i now try to get the bulk of our shopping from Lidle’s. It’s not easy to avoid the butchers apron these days but if you’re determined to go without rather than accept it, it helps.

    As for the blood soaked rag flying over Stirling castle, roll on the day we replace all of these eyesores with our own Saltire. Hey, Meg, maybe it’s time you took up sport shooting with high powered air-rifles. 😀

    Goodnight troops!

  304. Macart says:

    Heh. Fallon… 😀 LOL

    There’s a conference in March isn’t there? Timing is about right and gives PM May a few weeks to consider the Scottish Government’s compromise very…very… carefully indeed. It really is a damn sight more generous than she or her government deserve.

    Dot the ‘i’ and cross the ‘t’. Procedure.

    Over to Ms May (tick tock).

  305. yesindyref2 says:

    Hehe, a couple of perfect stooges posting on the Herald, meaning I can repeat and repeat the actual answers from the Panelbase poll, with the numbers – and instructions on how to check it our for themselves on the Panelbase website. Who needs OBE?

  306. yesindyref2 says:

    When I say stooges by the way, I mean the unionists still trying desperately to “spin” to put it politely, or “lie” to put it bluntly, that there’s only 27% support for Indyref2 in 2 years, rather than the 50% there actually is.

  307. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good morning, M’Lady 🙂

    I was going to have a sleep then I saw “Links for breakfast”. Kettle’s on.Sleep can wait!
    Thank You x x

  308. Nana says:

    Hey Smallaxe

    Where have you been? I saw on off topic folks trying to guess what you were up to. Mmmm I hope Tinto Chiel hasn’t been leading you astray.

    I have missed you!

  309. Bill McLean says:

    yesindyref2 – Is OBE still commenting in the Herald? Not looked at it for about 3 years. OBE, embarrassingly, is from Dunfermline! When it was first proposed that 16 and 17 year olds were to be allowed to vote in our referendum OBE wrote he didn’t want 16 and 17 year old yokels (or some such word) voting on Scotland’s future. An utter snob!

  310. Smallaxe says:

    Nana:

    Missed you also, no one has led me astray only me doing what I do.I’ve been meeting with some old friends “To take forward the Government’s plans for Scotland” :-). I’ve also been putting Sugar in some people’s petrol tanks to slow them down and hopefully bring them down.

    But it was all done “In the best possible taste” 🙂

    I was also over the border and gave a talk to some good people down there about how to protest and disrupt peacefully (Of course). There are many young people in England who are not happy with the way things are going so I pointed out what was happening in Scotland and told them; Make no mistake, YOU are next! etc.

    I am knackered, but it was worth it, well worth it.

    Peace and Love Always Allways.

  311. Tinto Chiel says:

    Thanks for the usual great links, Nana.

    No, don’t know what Smallaxe has been up to.

    This Manky Boy has been busy painting the smallest room and installing a new toilet seat. Highlight of my week so far has been eating a Dingwall haggis. Sublime.

    I’m still reeling from the shock that Michael Fallon is supposedly Scottish.

    What a Massey Ferguson! (Fordson Dextas are also available).

  312. Nana says:

    @Smallaxe

    So long as you are looking after yourself then I’m happy you are happy. Take a well earned rest now.

    @Tinto Chiel

    A Dingwall butcher’s haggis, yum yum. I have a couple in my freezer for my eldest. His pals from overseas have never ‘experienced’ the delight of a burns supper, he’s planning a surprise for them.

    Fallon is a plummy duff!

  313. Tinto Chiel says:

    Available for Bar Mitzvahs and Address to Haggis. Cheap rates, no time wasters.

    😀

  314. Nana says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    Have passed your details onto my son. Expect a call and sharpen your sgian dubh!

    More news, maybe fake who knows?

    Government gives up on ‘cherry picking’ access to customs union
    http://archive.is/U766m

    30 years in Britain and now facing deportation
    http://archive.is/sejRi

    China military official says
    http://archive.is/txNL8

  315. Proud Cybernat says:

    “The most stupid people on earth voted No to independence because they hated Alex Salmond.”

    “The most stupid people on earth voted No to independence because they were conditioned by the Establishment’s colonial media to hate Alex Salmond.”

    There – fixed that for you.

    If you asked most of these people why they dislike Alex Salmond they look at you blankly and retirt, “Ah just dae!” They can’t tell you why they dislike Salmond so much because they are victims themselves of the insidious nature of colonial media conditioning.

  316. Macart says:

    @ Smallaxe

    Hoping your end of the region isn’t as damp as mine. 🙂

  317. K1 says:

    ‘They can’t tell you why they dislike Salmond so much because they are victims themselves of the insidious nature of colonial media conditioning.’

    In a nutshell. They also insist’ that they ‘think for themselves’ if you press them a little further…such stubborn conditioning is almost impossible to break through, because their entire identity is composed and founded upon these entrenched beliefs. That’s why they also get so easily angered and lash out, the threat of a narrative that differs so much from their ‘norm’ is apt to induce a complete ‘mental’ breakdown ‘if’ they allow themselves to consider the opposite view even for a second. Ergo…the mind is ‘made up’, they don’t ‘debate’, they ‘berate’.

  318. Rock says:

    Proud Cybernat,

    ““The most stupid people on earth voted No to independence because they hated Alex Salmond.”

    “The most stupid people on earth voted No to independence because they were conditioned by the Establishment’s colonial media to hate Alex Salmond.”

    There – fixed that for you.”

    Only the most stupid people on earth could be conditioned by the Establishment’s colonial media to hate Alex Salmond.

    Alex Salmond’s record in government was there for all to see.



Comment - new users please read this page first for commenting rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use the live preview box. Include paragraph breaks or I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




↑ Top