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Wings Over Scotland


When people tell you who they are

Posted on November 04, 2020 by

Cosy Feet Pete’s done another tweet.

Nobody around here has any time for the Tories. But if you believe democracy should exist then governments should have oppositions and be subject to legitimate scrutiny.

The two motions the Scottish Government lost today (not just to the Tories but all the other opposition parties including the pro-independence Greens) were on providing evidence to the Salmond inquiryie they were being asked to do something the First Minister promised to do 19 months ago but which so far hasn’t been done – and on a public inquiry into the scandal of care home deaths, a genuinely serious issue.

These motions were the entirely proper business (and indeed duty) of a Parliamentary opposition. In the first instance they were acting on behalf of a cross-party, SNP-led committee which has repeatedly requested evidence it hasn’t been given, and in the second instance the SNP didn’t even oppose the motion (their MSPs abstained).

Neither of today’s motions were anything to do with independence or a referendum, just the normal everyday operation of government, so what Wishart is so indignantly demanding for his party is a rubber-stamping sham Parliament in which the SNP can do whatever it wants all the time without any meaningful scrutiny or challenge – an arrangement better known in communist China or the Third Reich.

(Ironically, it’s also exactly the sort of staggeringly arrogant entitlement you’d expect from the most stereotypical Eton Tory.)

We don’t know about you, folks, but that’s not what we signed up for.

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    103 to “When people tell you who they are”

    1. Muscleguy says:

      They absolutely won’t like ISP MSPs in the House. We won’t be dismissed as esoteric hippies like the Greens can. We will be an expression of the wider Yes movement. The SNP’s very Yes conscience. There will be no hiding from us in the House and the media will love writing up a story about ‘a split in the Yes vote’ (ignoring the Greens of course) so we will get lots of publicity and the SNP will be shown up as the indy blowhards they have become.

      ISP2 it’s the only solution.

    2. Kevin Cargill says:

      Pete’s lost it completely. He recently tweeted about Indy “demagogue bloggers” doing more damage than unionists without naming who he meant. I called him a coward for not doing so and asked him instead to direct his and his party’s attentions to tackling the criticisms made by such sites (who could he mean? ?) and for that he’s blocked me. Thus proving he is indeed a coward. It’s a pity as he used to be quite astute but now I fear he’s been brainwashed by the wokerati

    3. ScottieDog says:

      This is what makes more non-SNP pro-indy MSPs in holyrood essential.

    4. frogesque says:

      @muscleguy 10.43.

      I full agree. The SNP desperately nee Independence minded but credible opposition. Especially against some of the wokey woowoo whacky policies.

      For me AFI shit the nest when they buggered up their original submission to the Electoral Commission and then compounded it with a Tommy Sheridan love in.

      For me SNP1, ISP2

    5. Dave M says:

      No votes SNP, for me. Spoiled paper 1; alternative indy party 2.

    6. Sharny Dubs says:

      Only earth trembling changes would make me vote SNP.

      Still hoping for a credible second

    7. Robert Graham says:

      Totally o/t

      Re Martin Keatings case

      The defendants now remember this is a Scottish Court

      HM Elizabeth II

      Aye yer having a laugh not in bloody Scotland you aint dear

    8. Brian says:

      Are the SNP suddenly just being stupid or do they really not want Indy because I see a party that is shitting itself from the real fight.

      Guess that’s what happens when the middle class are in charge.

      Working class are scrappers because we have to be and the posh twats either went to boarding school which either makes them tough or evilly smart.

      What is the point of the SNP if they don’t want Indy?

    9. John Walsh says:

      Pete is shiting himself in case he get removed from WM (under come home or stand down)
      He has a WM pension to protect, 12 more months .lol

    10. Kenny says:

      Along with the Keatings tweets earlier today, that post has cheered me, no-end.
      I’m so very heartened, Stuart, that you’re holding that clown, Wishart, to account – never let that guy off the hook.

    11. Astonished says:

      pete wishart has he ever been on the side of truth and justice ?

      And is he among the wokeratti handmaidens ?

    12. Morgatron says:

      I totally agree with every word Stu. I have voted SNP all my adult life, been a member for 38 years and I believe in honest politics and politicians. Both of these lost votes today are about truth, transparency & scrutiny from a party that once championed these very principles, not as you rightly point out ,unlike all the other parties. As for Pete Wishy Washy, the man should he ashamed to be or call himself an SNP MP. Scunnered by their deciet.

    13. Facundo Savala says:

      I have always found Pete’s tweets amusing, until he blocked me of course. Nobody seems to think indy is already in the bag more than Pete.

      I am a staunch unionist though, and I must say, all this nationalist infighting will end all hope of #indyref2 for at least a few more decades. Keep it up!

    14. maxxmacc says:

      We badly need a strong figure to lead the new ISP party though. As without a figurehead like AS or JC (not jesus christ BTW) i dont think it will poll strongly enough to make enough of a difference.

      What might also be interesting is the emergence of Farage’s new Reform Party. Dont forget that UKIP got 1 european seat in scotland in 2014, so there is a euro-sceptic rump in scotland. Furthermore, many people see the continued lockdowns doing more harm than good, thus an anti-lockdown party like the one farage is promoting may well pick up enough votes to win a handful of list seats.

      Many people are becoming disillusioned with the main parties (including the snp), which is why a strong ISP needs to be formed quickly and with strong leadership, to capitalise on the vacuum which is developing. For if the ISP dont capitalise on the malaise, then Farage’s Reform Party probably will!

    15. OldPete says:

      Well there you have it Britnats just loving this site and lapping up the continual anti-SNP mantra that is pushed these days.
      Think the Britnat highlighting how the pro-independence infighting will destroy any chance of Scottish Independence just proves the point.
      Still for most on here these days Scottish Independence ain’t as important as other issues that could be amended or revoked after independence is achieved.

    16. Hatuey says:

      Wishart’s tweet is as twisted as any you’d find on Trump’s timeline.

      Let’s not be distracted from the sort of serious questions that lie at the heart of the inquiry, the legal advice, the vote today, and much else; did the SNP leadership essentially try to frame Salmond, and are their attempts to mislead and block access to information aimed at covering that truth up?

    17. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland’s democracy does indeed appear to be in peril, as our legal officers appear to have adopted the BritNat culture and approach to the law, that results from standing under the Crown in Parliament. Rather than the Moral law.

      The only way to escape this apparent drift towards totalitarianism, is to re-connect with the principles of “DEMOCRACY AND THE COMMITMENT TO INTERNATIONAL LAW”. Though that might upset Westminster, the yoons, and the shower of low-flying chancers now in control of the SNP and Scotland’s judicial system.

      https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1214&context=gjicl

    18. Facundo Savala says:

      What I really want to work out is how confident Wings readers are that Sturgeon will be dethroned over the Salmond Inquiry?

      A 10% chance of a forced resignation?

      Somewhere around 50/50?

      Or an absolute dead cert?

      For what its worth, I dont think it will happen. Her popularity is too high. There are not many scandals she wont be able to brush off. Her hubby may be forced to fall on his sword, but not Saint Nicola.

    19. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Well there you have it Britnats just loving this site”

      You won’t mind fucking off, then.

    20. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “What I really want to work out is how confident Wings readers are that Sturgeon will be dethroned over the Salmond Inquiry?”

      Speaking for myself, 99%. It’s nothing to do with popularity, it’s the rules. If you lie to Parliament you have to quit, and she did. Simple as that.

    21. Hatuey says:

      OldPete, nobody here or anywhere, including you, would dare to argue that Independence is more important than anything and everything else.

      But that question isn’t even vaguely related to anything discussed on this site or anywhere else over the last 5 years.

      The SNP aren’t interested in Independence, except as a marketing ploy. They’re about as sincere on Independence as New Labour have been on building a socialist nirvana.

      Evidence of that is everywhere. Actually, looking at the resistance they’ve put in front of Martin Keatings, you could easily make a case for saying they are aggressively opposed to independence (not even neutral or passively supportive).

    22. Facundo Savala says:

      Stu, thank you for welcoming me to the site. As a staunch unionist, I may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but I enjoy the discussion.

      I would love it, but I just can’t see 99% bbeing anywhere close to realistic.

      I get that the rules are clear, and proof of the rules being broken will also be clear. I just think Sturgeon has a little too much power and popularity to be pinned with this.

      She may end up as a proven liar. But most SNP fans wont care. They will continue to be impressed with the clarity of her delivery of the daily covid show, and how much less posh she is than that rotter from Eton.

    23. JSC says:

      Not since I first attended an Indy/SNP meeting at Paisley Uni in about 1992/1993 (I think Pat Kane might have been the star attraction that day from memory) have I felt so angry about Scottish politics, and specifically the SNP. To hijack a much used phrase, they have shown themselves to be the same shit but with a tartan tie. About a year ago I felt that Pete Wishart looked really cosy at WM, when a Tory MP intimated he wasn’t quite so Indy-passionate when the cameras weren’t on him, i.e. it was just all a facade for Pete’s day job, and I totally agree. Even Mhairi Black, who promised to bring a bit of fresh blood & shake things up a bit, has clearly put her feet up, gone full wokester, and is enjoying the London life (and £84k per annum) just a bit much these days (well maybe more pre-Covid). Others, like Margaret Ferrier are clearly a few levels out of their depth thanks to godawful vetting/standards. Don’t get me started on Blackford, who I’ll politely withhold my views on. Maybe things need to get a lot worse for the SNP before they can possibly get any better for Indy-supporters in general.

    24. Hatuey says:

      “What I really want to work out is how confident Wings readers are that Sturgeon will be dethroned over the Salmond Inquiry?”

      My expectation is that she will resign. I don’t think she could handle the ignominy of a vote of no confidence and all that negative energy aimed at her.

      I’m not as confident of that as I was last week, largely because the Tories have gone quiet on certain issues.

      The Tories, I would guess, want to weaken her so that she fails to achieve a majority next year. They surely can’t want to bring her down, not someone who is as committed to playing by the Section 30 rules as they themselves are.

      And who would replace her? Possibly someone much more difficult to deal with and contain.

      I won’t be surprised if Scottish Labour table a motion of confidence in her and the Tories abstain as a way of keeping her in the job.

    25. Joe Morrison says:

      New Independence Party launch.

      Chic Brodie ex MSP and Cllr Andy Doig launch:-

      “Scotia Future”

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18815380.ex-snp-msp-chic-brodie-launches-new-independence-party-scotia-future/

    26. Joe Morrison says:

      From what I understand, Scotia Future are putting candidates forward for Constituency and List seats.

      Very ambitious.

      Why not have a look.

      Strong Indy Party.

      Contact info and all other info on Link.

      https://www.scotia-future.scot/

      All

    27. Inverclyder says:

      Wishart has been sitting too close to that fire in Westminster.

    28. Ronald Fraser says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      5 November, 2020 at 12:09 am
      “What I really want to work out is how confident Wings readers are that Sturgeon will be dethroned over the Salmond Inquiry?”

      Speaking for myself, 99%. It’s nothing to do with popularity, it’s the rules. If you lie to Parliament you have to quit, and she did. Simple as that.

      What a nice way to end the day,,,cheers Rev.

      Oh please God,,,make this be true,

    29. Beaker says:

      Once again we have the Scottish Government “considering” the result of the vote regarding release of documents. Going by Swinney’s track record this means they will ignore it.

      The care homes they are trying to delay it until after May – absolutely no idea why.

      But I bet they will steamroll the travel ban through. The Greens will support this as they want us all to live in fucking caves or up trees.

      Won’t be surprised if they try to lock students down over Christmas.

    30. Joe Morrison says:

      SCOTIA FUTURE

      Chic Brodie,,, Andy Doig

      New Indy Party SCOTIA FUTURE

      Contact info:-

      Address:

      Email: info [at] scotia-future [dot] scot

      Phone: 07553 942484

      Business Hours: 8am-6:30pm Mon-Fri, 9am-2pm Sat-Sun

    31. CameronB Brodie says:

      I thought this guide to “An EU mechanism on democracy, the rule of law and fundamental rights” might prove useful. Or perhaps not, as our legal Establishment can’t respect international law, as they are British nationalists first and foremost, when it come to politics and the concept of justice. 🙁

      http://www.europarl.europa.eu/EPRS/EPRS_STUD_579328_annexI_EU_Mechanism_MILIEU.pdf

    32. Asklair says:

      Muscleguy says:
      4 November, 2020 at 10:43 pm
      They absolutely won’t like ISP MSPs in the House. We won’t be dismissed as esoteric hippies like the Greens can. We will be an expression of the wider Yes movement. The SNP’s very Yes conscience. There will be no hiding from us in the House and the media will love writing up a story about ‘a split in the Yes vote’ (ignoring the Greens of course) so we will get lots of publicity and the SNP will be shown up as the indy blowhards they have become.

      ISP2 it’s the only solution.

      long in the tooth, max the yes vote, aye, 2nd vote ISP, aye, google muselman and you use “only solution” I quote “two people would be one too many for my party.”

    33. Stan Broadwood says:

      Beaker

      I noticed you went all Anglo Saxon on me earlier today.

      Getting all upset because I wasn’t happy an Englishman got the top Fire fighters job in Scotland. But I stand by what I said,,,a Scot should have got that job, NIT an englishman.

      I also noticed you got touchy yesterday when the english army took a bit of stick.

      Are you from South of the border?

      Is this why you go all defensive when your country men are critisized.

      You remind me of another English Armed Forces anorak,,,he was called yesindyref2.

      Don’t say you are that pain in the arse.

      Beaker,,,are you “yesindyref2”

      I do hope not.

    34. twathater says:

      Posted this on previous thread more apt here

      twathater says:
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      5 November, 2020 at 1:27 am

      I watched part of the debate today and must admit even though I don’t like her or her lying party Jackie Baillie was very good, she had Swinney bouncing from one rope to another even ACH had a good punch, BUT oliver muddle was just a mumbling stuttering wreck.

      TBH I used to think Swinney was a nice guy and had integrity but his failed attempt to divert attention from these illegal, corrupt,shenanigans carried out by an AMORAL cabal of shysters which would have resulted in an INNOCENT man spending the rest of his life in prison only PROVES he is no better than them

      JOHN SWINNEY there is truth in the old saying “ALL IT TAKES FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING”

      John expose the EVIL WITHIN THE SNP and get back your self respect and integrity

    35. twathater says:

      And as for pete wishy washout I would really really like to see a committed indy supporter stand as an independent candidate and wipe pete’s entitlement right off his face, just think a few more indy supporting independent candidates standing for constituencies and list seats would surely ROCK the boat

      I have got to the stage that I would LOVE Tommy Sheridan to stand in Paisley at least we know TS wants independence and will take NO shite

    36. David F says:

      an arrangement better known in communist China…

      It’s ironic that public scrutiny of legislation is probably far stronger now in “communist China” than it is in Scotland.

      It would be well-nigh impossible for pieces of shit like GRA or the Hate Crime Bill to get through the legislative process in China.

      The common trope (assiduously peddled by, guess who – our ever-honest mainstream media) is that the NPPCC is a rubber stamp and the CPC rules by totalitarian diktat. In fact important legislation goes through months of open public debate before it’s finalised. Not only the NPPCC but also individual members of the public have a right to scrutinise draft legislation and offer comments and specific suggestions through a formal process. That’s why by the time it comes up for formal debate there is little opposition.

      Try writing to the Scottish Government and telling them you would like to make some suggestions about GRA, and see how you get on.

      Most legislation in China is technical rather than ideological. The CPC has no interest in playing kiddie games. It may be cumbersome and unwieldy, but that mitigates against it being hijacked by narrow interest-based factions.

      So there is no channel for cliques proposing shit like GRA to get their rubbish into the legislative process in the first place, and even if they did it would never survive the public scrutiny.

    37. Asklair says:

      David F says:
      5 November, 2020 at 2:13 am
      an arrangement better known in communist China

      Do China own 20% of “Scottish oil” “vote the same get the same” max the Yes Vote, think indy 2nd vote

    38. Asklair says:

      “we’ve gone from picking cotton to picking presidents” go for it.

    39. Hatuey says:

      “I have got to the stage that I would LOVE Tommy Sheridan to stand in Paisley at least we know TS wants independence”

      That’s a good stage to be at, one that suggests you’re heading in the right rather than the wrong direction.

      I doubt if I’d agree with his many of his socialist ideas, but he’s definitely a good egg and a guy I respect.

    40. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Hallelujah.

      I am refraining from posting much anymore because of the uber-thread-polluting narcissistic little jobbies and their turgid acolytes that infest EVERY thread with references in CAPS telling us to click his link to the THESIS ON ULTRA SUPOSITORIAL RECTAL DEHUMIDIFIERS. Or some such utter SCROLL BY waste of crap.

      Yes, as the site boss writes, we SHOULD just scroll by the resident pseudo-academic confetti troll, but you have to read at least a few seconds of his excrement for 25% of each thread.

      I and several on here got spanked by the Boss when patience got snapped by Spambot and Old Feet. I had the temerity to write that Old Feet’s card was marked.

      Tonight, the Boss finally had enough of smelly Old Feet. His card appears to be officially marked now. Thankyou Reverend IndySaviour my favourite website host. Thumbs-up.

      How d’you like them apples Old Smelly Feet?

      Only one other Spamerbot to go the same way and possibly 6 to 12 ex-contributors to WoS folk will likely be back here. The ones that have actually read 5 to 6 years forensic articles and understand the Rev Stu’s journey and all of us who agree with that perspective and the need to have a clear out of the McWoke Sturgeonite fifth column for IndyRef2 to stand a chance.

      P.S. Someone had a sarcastic dig at why I use bold type which they find irritating.

      My apologies. I am partially blind. The sight impairment includes both glaucoma and macular degeneration.

      Using bold type is a way of easily finding my last post so it is possible to then read the subsequent BTL comments (enlarged and with magnifier). I believe it courteous to answer folk who reply to my posts. Unfortunately for we partially sighted, it is necessary to use workarounds in order to navigate through life (and websites) with damaged eyesight. To the others that understood this problem, I thank you.

      ======================================

      Rev. Stuart Campbell posts at…
      5 November, 2020 at 12:08 am

      Old Feet writes: “Well there you have it Britnats just loving this site”

      Rev Stu writes: “You won’t mind ducking off, then.”

      Well said Bossman 🙂

    41. Frazerio says:

      How likely is it Sturgeon will go regarding the Salmond debacle?

      I could not see how she could possibly get to the end of this Scottish parliamentary term (2016-2021) with the rock solid, crystal clear mandate she was gifted, for a referendum on independence (being taken out of the EU against our clearly democratically expressed will). If there wasnt a referendum on such a clear democratic mandate by 2021, there’d be a lot of extremely p’d off people. Now thats is coming to pass. Unsurprisingly to some (including me), very surprisingly to Sturgeon loyalists. It shouldnt be a surprise, it should be a point being seriously highlighted & questioned (as it is here).

      During 2014 Indyref, how often did it need explained to doubters put off by a dislike for Salmond that Indy was not about 1 person? Now it seems to be a requirement to explain to Yessers that indy is not about 1 person (NS).

      So getting back to original Q, if she doesnt think she should have gone already after
      1) lying to parliament
      2) ignoring the 2016-21 mandate
      3) being up to her eyeballs in the apparent conspiracy to jail Salmond on spurious charges
      she will cling on as long as she possibly can.

      By any balanced appraisal, she has failed as leader. The leader of the SNP can be judged very easily. Did they deliver indy? Salmond failed, acknowledged it and stood aside. Thats what decent people do. Put the cause first. Sturgeon is not doing that. And before anyone replies ‘yeah but, we’re at 56%’, you need to say what it would have been under alternative leadership/circumstances. It could reasonably be argued it should be much higher with these circumstances under another leader.

    42. susanXX says:

      What an arrogant, entitled pos PW is. God the SNP have turned out to be as bad as the rest of the parties.

    43. stuart mctavish says:

      When people tell you who they are..just heard someone on the radio explain what’s taking so long to count the million or so votes in Nevada – apparently they mailed out voting cards to every eligible voter and not all the cards were returned by 3 November so they are giving US postal (aka the team that supported that cheating bastard Lance Armstrong) an extra week to deliver the mail … interestingly neither she, nor (it would appear) anyone representing the lowest of the low, scum of the fucking Earth most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization, finds anything wrong with this – at this point, effete assholes might well be the least of our worries.

    44. Derick Tulloch says:

      The sneering behaviour on Twitter of Blockoman Wishart, the superhero in magic slippers was the final straw for me. Goodbye SNP after 32 years (My God!), Hello ISP.

      Thanks Blockoman!

      Like any insurgent movement, as the SNP once was,all we have to do initially is survive. Getting MSPs would be a bonus. The National is trying to smother us with silence. Probably a good sign, LOL! No better than the unionist press, alas

      No comment on the SNP virtual non-conference. Ex members who want to experience a member led organisation welcome!

    45. Sensibledave says:

      Stan Broadwood 1.47

      …. a test of whether your sentiments expressed are ok or not, might be to replace the words English man”with say, “Pakistani man” and see how it reads.

    46. Effijy says:

      News footage just showed a qualified nurse arrested in cuffs
      For trying to take her Mum of 97 from an English Care Home?

      She was distressed in there not seeing her family so she was
      Going to be cared for at home by a caring and competent family.

      Where the home more concerned about losing the £1K per week
      Fee or what was best for her?

      How could a beat Bobby decide a healthy Mother and Child relationship
      should end in heavy handed arrest.

      The lady doesn’t have Covid and so she should have every right to seek
      Comfort or end her days in the arms of her family.

      Are there greater assess than politicians and the law?

    47. Breeks says:

      I worried about Pete’s moral compass being highly suspect back when Scotland was tumbling out of Europe, Sturgeon was rehearsing her capitulation speech, and Pete and John Swinney were out supping wine with huntin’, shootin’ and fishin’ brigade. Seemed like somebody was whistling a tune at the graveside, as a dearly loved somebody was laid to rest.

      Pete’s moral compass now seems completely dysfunctional. The SNP can be as dishonest, rotten and corrupt as it likes, and yet he expects all of us to abandon our own moral compasses and contain our revulsion, at least until the rotten scheme of betrayal has matured and come to fruition.

      Pete knows we don’t like Tories, but Poor Pete hasn’t the remotest inkling why we don’t like Tories.

      Step back and take a bow Pete Wishart. Through Sturgeon’s rotten Conspiracy and shabby, botched attempt at a cover up, you’ve done the impossible. You’ve made a seminal point to remember in Murdo Fraser’s entirely colourless political career, and allowed Mini-Me Mundell to bellow out “Sturgeon’s a liar” from his lofty position on the moral high ground.

      We’re not Tories Pete Wishart. YES is a broad Kirk, but we do have standards, and right now the SNP under Sturgeon doesn’t meet those standards.

      Vote for you? I’d vote for your impeachment.

    48. Karen says:

      SNP now a cult indeed. Scotia Future not for me as they want to be outside the EU.

    49. Bob Mack says:

      All I can say to Mr Wishart is that I want to see the legal advice of the Salmond case. It is imperative we know who knew what and when, and who exactly that legal advice was circulated to.

      As for the old folks homes I would imagine it is the duty of EVERY government to be answerable to the public for their actions right of wrong. This will happen in many countries where care home deaths were high. The entitlement is nuts.

    50. Effijy says:

      The Scottish Travel Industry is trying to firm a protest group at Holyrood today.
      Unlike pubs and restaurants they have had little media coverage, financial aid or
      sympathy.

      Many companies have closed for good, many job losses and probably have 1%
      of their normal business levels due to Travel Restrictions, and fear of Covid.

      I know that many cruise ships have been tied up until April next year.
      Very little bookings for beyond that date as some earlier cruises seen
      Passengers held for a month within their cabins.

      Also so sorry to hear of Emirates Airways closing their Glasgow Office after 17 years.

      Good luck to all within that forgotten industry!

    51. Ottomanboi says:

      Opposition is good for the soul….assuming you have one.

    52. Martin says:

      Parliament was entirely correct on both of these motions. It actually rather sickens me that the SNP opposed even one of them.

    53. Ottomanboi says:

      Effijy 08:20
      Pleased to see that at last you’ve noticed the social and economic consequences of the Covid fear project. All that misery and damage for a few days of flu symptoms.
      The global capitalist Great Reset is the life sucking vampire in the room.

    54. ScotsRenewables says:

      Resolution proposed for constitution:

      Conference agrees that if there is a majority in the Scottish Parliament after the Holyrood election in May for a fresh referendum on independence there can be no justification whatsoever for the Westminster Government to seek to veto that democratic choice nor should we accept such a veto

      … which kinda says there will be a plan B, without giving anything away.

      A smart compromise IMO

    55. Kenny says:

      I always wonder why Sturgeon, Yousaf and the Hitleratti are never asked to “wheesht for indy”? Always a one-way street, eh? Wonder why?

    56. Gregor says:

      Pete Wishart praising the quality of world leading purveyor of Fake News: CNN, is the final straw for me (you’re not getting my vote).

    57. Republicofscotland says:

      Not surprised Wishart doesn’t make his statement clearer on what they lost on, he’s a Sturgeon lackey to the core.

      Meanwhile the SNP face internal protests over a rigged conference agenda, is there no end to the machinations of the hierarchy of this once independence minded party. Among the motions shot down, was one on a Scottish Reserve Bank, intended to allow an independent Scotland to have its own currency as soon as possible.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18847447.snp-facing-internal-protest-party-conference-agenda/

    58. susanXX says:

      I hope the SNP suffer further defeats in Holyrood wet their wokus pocus nonsense. Bad laws shouldn’t pass.

    59. Dan says:

      Maybe, just maybe, the big name hotshots in the SNP wouldn’t need to fret about the party’s vote share if they focused on and addressed this small issue, rather than constantly telling the electorate what to do.

      https://twitter.com/Scotpol1314/status/1324015550666780675

      I’m no expert politician or business tsar to know if the following is relevant, but I have noticed in life that folk tend not to eat or drink in establishments that serve shit food and pish drink, and it’s also exceedingly rare for folk to want jump into a skipfire or cesspit.

    60. Republicofscotland says:

      Dan @9.35am.

      Thank you Dan for the link, this rigged agenda makes for disturbing but not surprising news.

    61. Richard says:

      @joe 12.40.

      Not for me, I for one can see how EU membership will benefit scotland, scotia future don’t.

      No doubt they will pick up a few votes and best of luck to them

    62. Dan says:

      @ Ros

      Aye, it’s certainly rather disturbing to watch the main supposed party for independence morphing from a slick well tuned transportation device for the people, into a rattly old muck spreader spraying and farting a seemingly never ending supply of crap out allover the gaff.

      Ach, at least in Auld Reekie toon there is some good monkey business goin’ on.

      https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1324066745972363264

    63. Keith fae Leith says:

      Aye Scots Renewables,

      1 more mandate for the shelf, then if you don’t play ball, we will do something in 4 years time.

      How much damage to the people of Scotland can a reactionary Tory party with an 80 majority in WM do.

      Oh yeah, btw, we won’t have our human rights protected by the ECJ when the “Supreme” court decide that WM can pass whatever laws they want?

      No deal with EU, woeful food standards & no recognizable NHS that comes with a US trade deal.

      Sure, a perfectly smart compromise.

    64. kapelmeister says:

      Be fair peeps. Pete’s been doing a lot of organising for the party.

      His 20 years as an MP party. A Commons committee room already booked. Portcullis cake ordered etc.

    65. Dan says:

      Another take on the dropped conference motions by Craig Dalzell.

      https://sourcenews.scot/analysis-why-has-the-snp-conference-dropped-all-members-motions/

    66. Ian McCubbin says:

      2nd vote for me is ISP in 2021. Time the SNP are held to account. There behaviour reup and coming conference is appalling.

    67. Johnny Martin says:

      Joe Morrison:

      It seems Scotia Future have identified a space in the political vacuum ‘pro-Indy, anti-EU’ that’s not currently being covered by any party in Holyrood. To some degree, ISP is covering the same ground, although they say they want to be in EFTA and (at least so far as I could make out) seem to be open to any arrangement in or out of the EU, so there’s a difference there.

      Good luck to them all.

      If we were moving towards independence at the pace we should be, incidentally, these parties (and their offerings) would offer a window into what we could/should be expecting in a healthy, independent, Scotland (i.e. parties with, in effect, different views on foreign policy but which accept Scotland is independent).

      We can but hope we get there.

      As an aside, the website is a bit clumsily written in a few places. I don’t say this to be mean or anything, just that it could be a bit sharper and more impressive in that regard.

    68. Johnny Martin says:

      ScotsRenewables says:
      5 November, 2020 at 8:51 am
      Resolution proposed for constitution:

      Conference agrees that if there is a majority in the Scottish Parliament after the Holyrood election in May for a fresh referendum on independence there can be no justification whatsoever for the Westminster Government to seek to veto that democratic choice nor should we accept such a veto

      … which kinda says there will be a plan B, without giving anything away.”

      Bollocks!

      If they want to pursue a plan B they will have to put it in their manifesto and win on the possibility in May 2021.

      If they do not do so, then it will be used as an excuse to do nothing for half a decade ‘ooops, it’ll need to go in the next one’.

      As you *must* reveal to the electorate what you are going to do, then unavoidably your opponents will learn a bit of it. Regrettably, perhaps, but really only if it’s a shit plan that you can’t back up.

      Enough of this ‘it’s a secret and the electorate can’t know’ bollocks. Would that sort of crap be acceptable for any other policy?

      And compromise?! With who? The electorate? ‘Trying to hoodwink folk that there’s a Plan B is an acceptable compromise’. Not in my book.

    69. susanXX says:

      Well said Johnny Martin @10:23am. The “secret plan” theory is a dead duck. I won’t be falling for that again.

    70. Beaker says:

      @Stan Broadwood says:
      5 November, 2020 at 1:43 am
      “I noticed you went all Anglo Saxon on me earlier today.”

      Nope, born in Aberdeen. But you obviously look at someone’s racial background rather than their skills, qualifications and experience.

      I know plenty of non-Scots living up here, contributing to the economy and also very much pro-indy. Going by your arguments there should be no place in Scottish politics for Mike Russell.

      But by all means stick to the xenophobia, just don’t get personal.

    71. shiregirl says:

      It angers me that he doesn’t explain what these tory motions were. How sad it takes the tories to push to defend truth and out the rot that has taken over the SNP.

      What staggers me is the SNP faithful who defend this rhetoric. Are they unaware of the facts or being swept along by the new wave of ‘SNP before everything’. Like they say, the only thing more shocking than the truth are the lies people tell to cover it up. Either ISP x 2 for me or spoilt votes.

    72. Republicofscotland says:

      Dan @9.50am.

      Very entertaining Dan, pity the Scottish government are allowing our flora and fauna, such as Weasels, Stoats, Ravens, Beavers, Mountain Hares, Moles, and all our raptor birds to be systematically slaughtered to allow Grouse shooting to flourish, so that a select few chinless wonders can blast them out of the sky.

      The Scottish government has failed miserably in protecting our wildlife.

    73. Famous15 says:

      Listening to the discussions on US tv programs about why the Democrats did not do better should be a lesson for the SNP. Ditch all the cultural niceties and wokery and focus on workers real concerns.

      The best quote “Speak for the people who shower after work not for those who shower before work”

      Or both,I guess! (Y’all)

    74. Ottomanboi says:

      Should Biden get the crown of the US elective monarchy there will certainly be rejoicing in Bute House.
      In fact general rejoicing among the New Order of resetters, wokers, self-haters and de-naturing fantasizers. Now they have the huxleyesque eunuch they always wanted…….should he live so long without artificial life support.

    75. Republicofscotland says:

      As one of Sturgeon’s most loyal acolytes, I doubt John Swinney words when he says that, although they lost the the parliamentary vote by 63 to 54, and the fact that it wasn’t binding, the government will consider the implications of the motion.

      Its very possible that the Scottish government knew beforehand that the judicial review should not have been defended in the first place, due to the very little chance of success in winning it.

      I take it Sturgeon decided to defend the case regardless, which resulted in a whopping cost to the Scottish taxpayer. Not taking into account that the decision was politically motivated to destroy a man’s career and character in the process, and send him to prison for a long time.

      For a party that’s meant to be the party of the people, the SNP has chosen to hide behind professional privilege to cover up their dirty tricks, which under Sturgeon there seems to be no end to.

    76. mike cassidy says:

      Even before they know who has won

      There’s no escaping who we Americans have become: This is the election’s meaning. We are stuck with one another, seeing no way out and no apparent way through, sinking deeper into a state of mutual incomprehension and loathing.

      https://archive.is/A2kbW

    77. Republicofscotland says:

      Re my 10.52am comment the SNP’s Bruce Crawford said on the matter that, the opposition were trying to undermine the credibility and position of the Scottish government.

      Defend the party no matter the cost seems to be the way for many SNP MSP’s.

    78. Sylvia says:

      Angus Macfadyen is not happy with Pete. He also wants to know where the indyref cash is.

      https://twitter.com/macfadyenangus/status/1324122317123969025

    79. robertknight says:

      Weak Pishart encapsulates all that’s wrong with the paper tiger troughers which form the SNPs Westminster group.

      Self entitled, out of touch, ineffectual, affluent and contented. Much like those first Scottish MPs which entered the Palace of Westminster some 313 years ago.

      Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

    80. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “… which kinda says there will be a plan B, without giving anything away.

      A smart compromise IMO”

      Absolute bollocks.

    81. George says:

      May I offer the comfort of the draft Scottish consitution proposed by Ms Sturgeon on State Accountability.
      12 State accountability to the people
      (1)The Scottish Parliament and its members, as the elected representatives of the people, are accountable to the people.
      (2)The Scottish Government and its members are accountable to the Scottish Parliament and, through the Parliament as their elected representatives, to the people.

    82. Ottomanboi says:

      Many will not have heard of this globalist outfit.
      [The International Forum of Sovereign Wealth Funds (IFSWF) is a voluntary organisation of global sovereign wealth funds committed to working together and strengthening the community through dialogue, research and self-assessment.] What does that mean?
      Its HQ is located in…London, the best place for it in so many ways.
      Significantly, the Norwegians with the most successful SWF ever are not members.
      What’s Norwegian for we smell a stinking rat?

    83. Republicofscotland says:

      Putting aside the disgraceful actions of SLAB leading Glasgow City council, in one instance alone they cost the Scottish taxpayer half a billion quid not including legal fees, on the Cordia fiasco.

      The city’s council under SNP leadership has stumbled from one disaster to another from the Imelda Marcos of the SNP council Susan Aitken and her expensive wardrobe, to the latest embarrassment, the authorities legal duty to provide homeless folk with shelter, of which they failed to do so for one in three folk in 2019/20.

      Such is the local authorities terrible handling of this particular matter that Shelter Scotland has had to take legal action against the council over gatekeeping that blocks a homeless person from receiving temporary accommodation, and the use of other facilities.

      Glasgow city council has failed miserably on providing accommodation to people in the city who need it, some with children have been turned away, one in three have been left to sleep on the streets, during these pandemic riven times, whilst the likes of Aitken ponders on which new and expensive outfit to wear.

    84. fergus says:

      If anything, this latest debacle in the descent of the SNP into an autocratic regime just reinforces that we are not ready for independence, certainly not under such a one party dynastic clique. It has convinced me that an SNP independence would not be worth the candle. Where is the imagination, the vision and the hard work to build what would have to be a modern transparent accountable institution of government, with constitutional guarantees necessary for that to happen?
      The only possible route I can see is one which gives us a sense of the kind of state we would become, and one which is rigorous in the separation of powers. To do that, I have come to the conclusion that we need an opposition party to the SNP which is totally committed to independence. Then the arguments about what future we are voting for can be thrashed out, the SNP would have to come out of its shell and justify itself and its policies. If we gained independence then at least we would already have two parties to contest the political direction and make up that we might have. As it stands they seem to envisage a one party state where they know best. And I would rather have the status quo than that.

    85. Mist001 says:

      Mrs. Murrell won’t lose her job. With the Corona tier business, I reckon the game will be played that everything will become utter doom and gloom from now onwards up until about a week before Christmas. Something will happen, some announcement will be made, a miracle perhaps and Mrs. Murrell will be seen as the woman who saved Christmas.

      Her popularity will soar and she’ll be untouchable.

    86. Ronald Fraser says:

      Beaker (yesindyref2)

      You didn’t answer my question,

      Are you “yesindyref2”?

      He also had “I Love the English” tattooed on his forearm,,, just like you Beaker.

      AND, he also had multiple orgasms when talking about the English Army.

      Just like you Beaker.

      And I also think the Head of any of our Services should be a Scot.

      If not, then that is s massive failing on our part, where we have to go to England (spit) to find them.

    87. Ronald Fraser says:

      Like Stan says last night Beaker

      You sound very much like yesindyref2

      We await your answer

    88. Joe Morrison says:

      This is worth another plug.

      New Indy Party starting up as an alternative to the SNP

      “SCOTIA FUTURE”

    89. Joe Morrison says:

      New Independence Party launch.

      Chic Brodie ex MSP and Cllr Andy Doig launch:-

      “Scotia Future”

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18815380.ex-snp-msp-chic-brodie-launches-new-independence-party-scotia-future/

    90. Joe Morrison says:

      From what I understand, Scotia Future are putting candidates forward for Constituency and List seats.

      Very ambitious.

      Why not have a look.

      Strong Indy Party.

      Contact info and all other info on Link.

      https://www.scotia-future.scot/

    91. Joe Morrison says:

      SCOTIA FUTURE

      Chic Brodie,,, Andy Doig

      New Indy Party SCOTIA FUTURE

      Contact info:-

      Address:

      Email: info [at] scotia-future [dot] scot

      Phone: 07553 942484

      Business Hours: 8am-6:30pm Mon-Fri, 9am-2pm Sat-Sun

    92. Patsy Millar says:

      Morgatron has said it all for me!

    93. Hatuey says:

      Ronald Fraser, nobody cares who Beaker is or what sort of tattoo he has, except you.

      The problem with your anti-English position is that many of us know English people and they are upstanding good people.

      Generalising about the people of any country is a slippery slope.

      And if we start blocking access of English people to certain jobs, you can bet they’d do likewise. Where would that get us? And why?

      What is it about meritocracy that scares you?

    94. Robert graham says:

      Hatuey
      So you agree that all the people at the Top therefore control of all our major Institutions appear to
      be English or in general are not Scottish ,

      I am sure that’s normally accepted the world over but is it you might care to check that out

      So in your opinion that’s just a fine and a normal situation in a country of just over five million people with generally smaller cultural institutions so few positions are available ,

      With all due respect,

      away and Bile yer heed

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      I appreciate my mere presence btl is enough to trigger certain voices, which is quite sad really, as I’ve been doing my best to inform the debate with sound knowledge and legal facts. Which I don’t think can realistically be considered trolling, though I’m not the boss. So here’s a look at “How behavioural sciences can promote truth, autonomy and democratic discourse online”.

      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-0889-7

    96. David R says:

      The Scottish Government need opposition either from a pro indy or pro union parties. A single party full of piss poor careerist politicians just makes parliament weaker and reduces faith in our political class. The fact that an SNP is worried about oversight doesn’t look good and is worrying.

    97. Al-Stuart says:

      Stu.,

      I am loathe to comment on Wings whilst the industrial spammer who refuses to “take a day off” persists in flooding each thread with what you as a man I hold in high esteem suggested…

      “C*****n TAKE A FUCKING DAY OFF ONCE IN A WHILE. You’re nearly a quarter of the comments on this post. Not every single thread needs bombarding with a hundred links to 50,000-word incomprehensible academic papers that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY CLICKS ON. (Trust me, the admin panel shows me what outgoing links people click on.) My readers are not a captive audience for you to show off how clever you are. If that’s what you want, go get your own damn website and see how many people want to hear about interpretative phenomenological analysis of the complexity of the dynamics of systemic ethics relating to intersectional identities.”

      Hilarious last line by the way Big Man.

      Anyways, putting the website-highjacked that cannot read the room in a wee pokey box out of the road for a while and bringing things back to the clear and present danger to free speech being Orwellianised by a corrupt SNP Command, here is the jaw dropping dissonance between the BBC video of Big Daddy Alyn Smith pushing the Hate Crime Bill whilst having shagged up with toy boy and Hate-Crime-Infractor-In-Chief, Jordon Henderson spewing the exact HATE that Humza has been peddling…

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-54819152

      This bares reflection and reference to the following Wings article…

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/two-woke-princes/

      Methinks Alyn Smith has a dose of the…

      Seriously
      Hyoocritical
      Ignorant
      Trans
      Stupidity.

      Hopefully that makes it onto your forensic radar as the BBC Alyn Smith Hate Crime Bill interview and the Wings article quoting Hate Crime Jordan may be ingredients for something more interesting.

      Apologies as I couldn’t post a link to the thesis referencing adverse effects of lesser spotted wart frogs on septic pseudo-intellectual oral fart hogs.

      But Alyn Smith’s admiration and attraction to the personification of a two-legged Hate cretin @mantagu90 is, unlike some links, actually something I clicked on.

      Cheers, Al.

      ========================

      Cameron: TAKE A FUCKING DAY OFF ONCE IN A WHILE. You’re nearly a quarter of the comments on this post. Not every single thread needs bombarding with a hundred links to 50,000-word incomprehensible academic papers that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY CLICKS ON. (Trust me, the admin panel shows me what outgoing links people click on.) My readers are not a captive audience for you to show off how clever you are. If that’s what you want, go get your own damn website and see how many people want to hear about interpretative phenomenological analysis of the complexity of the dynamics of systemic ethics relating to intersectional identities.

      Everyone else: if you don’t like Cameron’s comments, FUCKING WELL IGNORE THEM AND SKIP TO THE NEXT COMMENT. How can we be nearly 10 years into this shit and people still don’t have the self-control to just ignore someone they don’t want to engage with? How do I STILL have to keep saying it? You’re grown fucking adults, take some responsibility for yourselves and show some self-discipline. The previous formatting of the links was visually disruptive and I did something about it. Now it’s your turn to play your part.

      The ban hammer is out of the drawer. Next time I see a thread spammed with links about the epistemology of a value-capture perspective, whatever the FUCK that is, or with people going “wah wah I don’t like one of the other kids in this playground, make him go away because it’s intolerable that anyone I don’t like is allowed to exist”, like you were a fucking transactivist or something, it’s getting swung around angrily and indiscriminately and anyone in the way is going to get a battering. You. Have. Been. Warned.

    98. CameronB Brodie says:

      Al-Stuart
      You appear to be hostile to ethical reason, and eager to misrepresent me. So I don’t think it sensible for me to be taking instruction from you.

      https://wws.princeton.edu/system/files/research/documents/moravcsik_liberal_theories_of_international_law.pdf

    99. Hatuey says:

      Robert graham, I think I know what you’re trying to say at 12.18, in fact I’m sure I do, but I have standards and if you can’t string a viable sentence together then I simply refuse to engage.

      Sorry if that’s a disappointment. If it’s an consolation, I don’t engage with rocks or trees either, for the same sort of reasons.

    100. Col says:

      It’s a load of nonsense, in west Scotland , 2 x snp last time meant 2nd vote wasted. No list seats. If all snp 2nd votes were green instead, that would’ve got 4 greens and prevented 4 unionist seats. So next time it’s snp and green, unless there’s a better option on the list.

    101. G H Graham says:

      ScotsRenewables says:
      5 November, 2020 at 8:51 am
      Resolution proposed for constitution:

      … there can be no justification whatsoever for the Westminster Government to seek to veto that democratic choice nor should we accept such a veto

      … which kinda says there will be a plan B, without giving anything away.

      Correct. There is no justification.

      But Johnson will still say no anyway. Is he morally justified? Of course not.

      And does he care?

      No.

      Which is why the SNP’s single minded tactic which is “to claim it’s not fair for Johnson to keep refusing” is a futile, pointless and devious, diversionary tactic to keep the faithful voting for them.

      It’s a con-trick that Sturgeon seems happy to keep repeating even though some of us see through her smoke & mirrors parlour games.



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