What we do
Posted on
September 17, 2013 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
Hooray, he’s back!
Kaa canny indeed, edging ever closer.
trussst in meee jusssst in meeee close your eyes and trussst in meeee
eh?
naw
Says it all.
Go on Hamish son, pit it oot it’s misery with yer big jaggy claw.
Would that be Kaa Kaye by any chance?
The next time Mr Sarwar appears on TV for a debate the YES rep should ask for AS to take a lie detector
Watching the Newsnight programme with a large number of tweedy country Tory looking undecideds.
Just before I toodle aff I read this on SNP.org and it made me think about whether I should visit that auld fashioned apothecary up near Edinburgh Uni for some gin soaked juniper berries. Its been many a year since my last vist and wondered if its still there?
Host: So you want free prescriptions scrapped, let’s just be clear on that.
JBaillie: Oh yes, universal free prescriptions I think should be reviewed.
I think there are better things we could do with the money.
Now this is probably an old quote but it should not be forgotten. Whoever appears at Inverness from the SLAB should be asked the same question.
Anyone watching the vote on Newsnight? Looks like an few more papers going into the yes box than the no box to me
what was that result there?
Yes 30, No 18! 62% to 38%
62% YES
38% NO
Ouch. That’ll leave a mark.
Sez Morag, peacefully watching BBC4.
Massive backfire by the bbc on Newsnight tonight – 62% for Independence. Ouch that must have hurt ( big, huge smiley face )
Kirsty Wark seemed surprised. 🙂
Just seen the poll on Newsnight of their ‘audience’
Oops! 😆
Oh dearie me, the TRUTH is out at last on BBC Newsnight. The YES vote on the programme was 30 and the NO vote was 18!
The best bit is that the good old BBC could do nothing about this result getting out as Newsnight was live! 😆
I know it was only a straw poll of those in the ‘audience’ of the show but hey ho it’s still a poll, what’s more it’s a poll Sarwar and his cohorts can not do anything about!
Oh, that’s gonna hurt in the morning!
Kirsty Wark wiz jist aboot greetin’.
Ahh, the positive message bears fruit on Newsnight! This is useful as an illustration that the don’t knows will tend to split proportionally in favour of YES.
I thought Pat Kane came across very well towards the end, cutting through the complexity and political ping pong with some people friendly, common sense statements.
Interesting result on Newsnight Special poll
Tessa Hartmann sitting with Margaret Curran for the unionists, didn’t disappoint, especially when she started her ‘Im a layperson’ guff then the deranged utterance about border controls
I am surprised that Kirsty didn’t choke on that!
Wasn’t that pro union wifey awful I shouldn’t complain she probably converted a few to yes.
Bigsmileything.
Thought Pat Kane very good, getting the point over in a clear and understandable manner as did the guy from Business for Scotland, who was in the audience, fairly verbally wacked the former civil servant, who tried the old tired Scotland subsidised guff
I’m guessing I’m not the only one who’s beginning to get a warm feeling about where we are with one year to go?
Momentum seems to be building nicely for YES, with Saturday’s rally to look forward to.
Thought Pat Kane was very good on the debate. Big benefit when Yes has people like Nicola and Pat on the same platform.
Talk of border controls does not favour the No brigade.
At the end of the programme I thought it was turning into a Hogmanay show.
Having a wine on a schoolnight – watching the bbc dismembered in slow motion is going to be fun – Game On
That 62% Yes should cheer up the troops for Saturday.
Watched Newsnight.
What a great result for the Yes Scotland campaign with a year to go..
ps. This is a great idea.. 🙂
http://michaelgreenwell.wordpress.com/2013/09/14/then-what/
‘Then what?’
I say we should have Curran, Sarwar and Tessa Hartmann on all these TV debates as does the Yes vote a power of good 🙂 Alex Massie what a bore he is.
Nicola and pat Kane did a good job there. Mags curran and a.n.unionist businesswoman sais tired same old, same old. Curran’s face was a sight to behold when challenged as to why the unionists constantly talk about their ‘Scottishness’ – in contrast to pro indies.
@ The man in the Jar perhaps this might help you out.
Try typing the following for your smiley faces. :D:
leave a space then type a colon followed by lol followed by a colon for 😆
leave a space then type a colon followed by D followed by a colon for :D:
leave a space then type a colon followed by P followed by a colon for :P:
Hope this helps. :D:
Maintaining a positive vision and building on the success of the Scottish parliament in setting and delivering different priorities is clearly a winning formula.
I don’t think folks are actually that bothered about SNP, New Labour, Tory, etc – they really just need simple and easy to understand pieces of information that they can relate back to reality. The extremely negative parts of the No campaign do not sit well with this.
The unionists and BRitNats are going to parrot the yougov poll as if it’s the lat word on the matter as usual, but that Newsnight debate should put the fear of god into scottish labour.
It won’t though.
They just don’t get it and by the time they do it will be far too late. We’ve been here before and it was only three years ago.
I’m wondering about the wisdom of this, from the point of view of the BBC’s support for the union.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24123460
This is the ever-so-brilliant idea of choosing a panel of 50 schoolchildren who will be voting next year, and following these same people through the year. I wonder if the corporation has forgotten what happened when they tried something similar with adult voters about 30 years ago (give or take).
They put together a Scottish panel, might have been 1000 people, selected for their voting preference in proportion to the vote at the previous general election. Then these people were exposed to lectures and tutorials and reading material and so on, to make them truly informed voters. Their changing opinions were supposed to be monitored in a programme every month or so.
That was the theory. In practice the proportion of the panel switching to the SNP was so embarrassing they dropped the whole idea after only a couple of programmes. (Don’t take this as gospel because it’s just recollection and it was a long time ago, but it was something like that.)
If these kids are going to be encouraged to become informed and research the true facts and issues, this is only going to go one way.
Pacific Quay will be spitting at the result because they must have thought that they could cook the event as a Better Together Jamboree.
This despite some prat editor inviting Curran to lead the No case ( the whistle on that train of thought, barely audible ) aided and abetted by a heavily made up lady who kept talking about shopping. Still with this unpromising material, the contributions from the audience were managed by Wark according to plan with the correct in build Unionist bias
Massie and Gallacher dominated there no problem – then suddenly the BBC’s cunning plan went tits up after a brilliant intervention from the English lady at the front coupled with some ironic, heartfelt and authentic remarks from Pat Kane which won the audience over. Rounded off at the end with Wark correcting a lie from Curran so fair play there
Nice one
Result! in spite of a BBC picked audience, BBC symbolism (military snare drums , Union Bridge saying “United we’re stronger”) and Kirsty Wark (as venomous as ever), Glenn Campbell, Alex Massie and a “lay person” who was so far up her own that she nearly choked on hearing the result. Big fan of Nicola but she needs to relax, be more measured and learn from the shouting match with Sarwar. Pat Kane was brilliant, speaking in the language that folk understand, as did the guy who “buys” companies.
62% YES, Scottish Skier is bang on the money.
@Arbroath 1320
I know, I just find it easier to type “Weesmileything”! 🙂
Kirsty Wark is currently checking the No ballot box for holes, in case a big wad of them got lost.
That was Project Hope vs Project Fear perfectly illustrated, though. Most people believe in Scotland as a country, and in their hearts, they want Scotland to be independent. Even if they don’t believe the facts presented to them 100%, they’ll end up plumping for Yes, because people will realise this is too important an opportunity to throw away.
And a good dose of them will simply go “ach, why the fuck not?”
Incidentally, Bill C – I think the guy who “buys companies” was possibly our very own Ivan McKee? He was sitting next to Jim Gallagher and got a chance to speak.
Absolutely delighted with the result on newsnight but can’t help thinking it was the result of most folks natural antipathy to Margaret Curran and Kirsty Wark.
What worries me Morag about the BBC being involved in any way with encouraging kids becoming informed about the referendum is the way that BBC Radio 5 Live ‘encouraged’ NO voters in yesterday’s debate in Glasgow.
https://twitter.com/graemeinlondon/status/379639614069559296
https://twitter.com/graemeinlondon/status/379638381371994112
I didn’t see the debate Ron but in my view the editor of Newsnight who invited Margaret Curran on to speak for the NO side was not a prat. In my view this was an inspired move. Let’s face it every time she opens her mouth the clamour of folks rushing for the exits is incredible. More over every time she is seen on TV or in a live debate the number of Don’t Knows who jump ship over to YES increases. :D:
The Man in the Jar says:
@Arbroath 1320I know, I just find it easier to type “Weesmileything”!
Oops, sorry thought I was helping you out it appears I was preaching to the converted. 😆
Was indeed Ivan McKee. And wasn’t it great when, after all his put-downs of Gallagher and Massie, he said he “wasn’t SNP”? Excellent.
What worries me Morag about the BBC being involved in any way with encouraging kids becoming informed about the referendum is the way that BBC Radio 5 Live ‘encouraged’ NO voters in yesterday’s debate in Glasgow.
Yes, but the panel of 50 is for the long haul, not just a one-off discussion. These kids are going to be exposed to actual facts and the BBC can’t stop that. They can’t brainwash the No contingent for a year, not kids armed with smartphones and iPads and computers with actual internetz on them.
I like the way Ivan compared his knowledge of companies and the real World to the Civil Servant. Nice move well timed!
I actually thought Kirsty Wark was ok on this occasion. The jaicket of whoever was entrusted with choosing the audience must be on a shoogly nail however.
Doug, yeah I gathered that, no offence to the guy, I thought he was excellent, just never heard of him. Could do with more of his ilk though.
P.S. Just heard SKY News describing Alex Salmond as “he’s the the daddy” in relation to the Lib Dems idea for free school meals. Fit to be tied, bastards!
Arbroath 1320 says:
I didn’t see the debate Ron but in my view the editor of Newsnight who invited Margaret Curran on to speak for the NO side was not a prat. In my view this was an inspired move.
Totally agree Arbroath, I was being “ironic”. Curran is comedy gold and her invitation from the BBC was a major mistake. The “prat” I refer to deserves our most profound thanks.
I would love to think that this might be an act of calculation by an editor sympathetic to the Yes Scotland. But it is too much to hope for that we might have a “sleeper” in Pacific Quay
And I note another exclusive SLAB policy announcement from tonight’s programme is that the shadow Scottish secretary wants to get rid of Trident. First repeal of the bedroom tax, now abolishing Trident. Excellent news indeed.
One “the” too many!
But it is too much to hope for that we might have a “sleeper” in Pacific Quay
Not any more! 😀
http://derekbatemandotnet1.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/i-was-alex-salmonds-spy-inside-the-bbc/
Gardennat – Nah, I thought Wark was shocking. What sort of journalist keeps a straight face while asking a politician if they can guarantee we’ll still have no tuition fees in ten years time if we become independent? You can’t even guarantee it under the current settlement! Her natural anti-independence bias was far more blatant than any BBC Scotland presenter ever displays.
But it was the wee films in between that really took the piss. Saying Scotland would be one of the smallest countries in the world (and actually flashing up as “Smallest country in the world” on the screen)? Absolute pish. We’ll be number 117, above 80 other countries (in the UN, that is).
That whole show was an abomination, which is why BetterTogether tweeted praise for it… Strangely silent on the result, though!
I enjoyed the way Ivan McKee shot Jim Gallaghers assertions to shreds. he even called Gallagher disingenuous.
On the question of Trident and NATO: I was surprised that Gallagher was allowed to get away with saying that Scotland would be barred from NATO if they get rid of the UK’s nukes, and that no other country has ever got rid of another country’s nukes. What country has ever hosted another country’s nukes? The only one I can think of was the Ukraine under Moscow rule, who on declaring independence scrapped the Russian nukes that were on their territory.
Curran was dire. Tessa Hartmann trying to pass herself off as an ordinary Jo Public, was a failure – I think the audience just couldn’t relate to her. Nicola was OK. Pat Kane was excellent. For me, Pat Kane and Ivan McKee were, and in future will be, the guys who the public paid/will pay attention to. I’d like to see them appear as regular speakers for the YES camp on these televised debates.
The Times and Yougov at it again http://better.tg/1gvpZok . To be expected.
Bill C
“lay person” who was so far up her own that she nearly choked on hearing the result
That ‘lay person’ was Teressa Hartmann, a right died in the wool Tory (google her name and conservative, you will see). The BBC have used her before as a so called ‘neutral’ and she was sussed out previously. So in reality it was a pair of Tory women on the unionist side (drug crazed version of Ab Fab came to mind)
@ Doug Daniel
Aye, Doug. The bias and subliminal messages from Wark and onscreen were coming thick and fast. Even my wife, who is not a political anorak, remarked upon it.
@Arbroath1320
To be fair 😆 is a new one on me. Thanks!
weesmileything!
Another excellent cartoon, Chris. Hamish brings smiles, and that`ll do me tonight as I go to bed. Oh, and of course, there was thon Newsnight special. What an absolute shambles. Still, 30 Yes against 18 No seems about right to me; though, I`m more of a 64% Yes 36% No kinda guy.
🙂
Interesting that BetterTogether are trumpeting this YouGov poll, ignoring the fact that 52% No to 32% Yes is a pretty big increase from the last YouGov poll of 59% No to 29% Yes. A 30-point lead cut to just 20 points!
It’s happening, folks. It’s happening.
Good to see a wee debate like this getting air time, was it on UK-wide? Pat Kane was excellent in getting away from ‘would it cost us tuppence more or less for a loaf of bread after independence’ to the real questions of nationhood (not identity). Plummy sounding woman in the audience was an obvious convert when she declared she was fed up listening to bickering politicians but heartened by listening to PK and some others in the audience. Curran was too full of waffle and looked totally confused at times to come out with any lies and the Hartmann woman was so obsessed with self-interest that she is never going to consider anyone else’s views. Tories and altruism don’t go together. Result was a good indication of what can be achieved among the undecided with the correct approach, using respected non-politicos to make the case.
It’s happening, folks. It’s happening.
Just a wee straw in the wind. See you Saturday, mind and get a place near the front.
Saw your tweet Doug, spot on. Tide is on the turn, big time.
Morag – as usual, I have lost the plot. Are we meeting before or after the March and Rally, or both and where?
Go Coldstream !!!
That ‘lay person’ was Teressa Hartmann, a right died in the wool Tory (google her name and conservative, you will see). Quite !!
Margret Curran is Glasgow Irish & British by the way her announcement of being Scottish tonight (new for TV Im sure ) is either a lie or a change of position for her part.
Kirsty Wark ?? What did she bring to the debate ?
Isobel Fraser is better value Im sure.
Massie & Gallagher (Self opinion exceeds the intellect in my view ) Pretty much made fools of themselves. Nice to see YES contributors countering excellent!
Well it looks like I’ll be arriving in Waverley around 11:00.
I don’t want to hear any complaints on Saturday that you weren’t warned. The nutter she is definitely gonna be there you have all been warned! 😆
I think my partner might need a wee rest before starting the march though, so hope we don’t have to go too far along the High Street. :D:
The Times and Yougov at it again http://better.tg/1gvpZok . To be expected.
Oh that’s very good. Yougov absolute numbers are well off as I’ve said many times and gone into great detail as to why. However…
That poll shows a decent drop (7%) for no and rise for yes (5%). Lowest Yougov ‘No’ since 2009 is very good.
Put it this way. If yougove shows trends in the right direction, then we’re laughing.
You gov Poll -Ahh Here come R Mexico ……
Clock is ticking now ….. I’ll ask him again
As Panelbase pointed out, no pollster has got a “right” methodology for the referendum. None of them can accurately describe the current state of opinion. It’s the trends within each pollster that matters.
YouGov change since late Aug – No down 7%, 3% to Yes : 4% to DK.
I’m a bit cautious about celebrating yet, lots of work to do to ensure people are properly informed. Television manipulates even when live. The anti independent unionists will be plotting so we need to keep things in perspective. The YES rally will be a starting point and hopefully the next springboard for a mature, intelligent and forward looking discussion to take place. There may well be no going back, so lets hope even the unionists will start to work toward securing a positive future for our kids and grand kids. The rUK should start negotiations instead of bickering and name calling and backstabbing, if they have any intelligence at all.
Yeah lets get this into perspcective. ….. before we ge too excited.
BBC TV debate 1 (real time public observed) : YES edge it say on 44% to 36%
BBC TV debate 2 (real time public observed) : YES win 62% to 38%
Latest Yougov (flawed Poll ? ) : 52% No to 32% Yes
Which one will be the headllines in MSM ? Its obvious
@Hetty – no one should even think about celebrating, the tide might be on the turn, that is all. Shoulders to the wheel folks and we will win.
hetty :
“The rUK should start negotiations instead of bickering and name calling and backstabbing, if they have any intelligence at all”
This has been mentioned a lot by the public, as if its a YES flaw /problem. Perhaps DK’s should be persuaded to raise this as a Q for BT and regionalists. It is a valid query; why is this a no go area.
The thing i’d like to know about the live debate is, where were the audience from?
If they were from the borders, which tends to be a Unionist area, then this is an astonishing result.
If we can win in the borders, under the ball and chains of a BBC controlled debate, we will win everywhere.
I fell something has changed over the past month or so, and it’s gathering momentum. 🙂
BIG SMILEY THNGY !!!
I agree Patrick I think people like me are being persuaded or just pushed over the edge by the negativity and lies
Good luck with the rally on the 21st, wish I could be there but its just too late to change plans
Newsnight Scotland yes vote, Anus sarwar, Maggie Curran, Jackie Baillie it really doesn’t get better than this 🙂
morag says
“Not any more! ”
gonne no dae that,
jist gonne no?
ivry time that comes up ah git a riddy 🙁
O/T I just watched “I love my Country” to see whether this was another propoganda piece. Why is a program like this load of crap being produced for BBC Scotland?
As to Mr Sarwar ……he is ANAS HORRIBILUS!
That was excellent TV. Pat and Nicola did well, left Curran and A N Businesswoman trailing early doors. A real sense of hope and aspiration versus fear and stagnation came across throughout. Liked the comment from the man on the bridge at the end of the ballot.
This is for future generations, we’ve got to just go for it. 🙂
Good Morning Scotland will be speaking to Nicola S just after 730am and who gets the after 8 top billing, A Darling.
Newsnight Special?
What Newsnight Special?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007rhvm/broadcasts/2013/09
@conan
It was on UK wide Newsnight, here’s the link, Newsnight Scotland didn’t happen last night
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03bkpgl
Did I detect a shriller Prof Curtis this morning …Think so! Was there a suspicion of desperation on GMS this morning ….Aye! . Ms Sturgeon did well this morning and batted the usual Q’s for 6. .FLIPPER on GMS in 15mins.
Delicious irony in this morning’s Herald. Their lack of resources (two subs probably trying to do the job of ten) causes daily cock-ups. This morning’s has the polling bar charts (poll of polls etc) to accompany Curtice’s piece in their referendum special … and every single one has the result the ‘wrong’ way round to show ‘Yes’ in the lead.
Brilliant.
The English Democrats chap, Eddie Bone, on the wireless again, what sort of support do they have, I wonder.
Is it just him and a few pals? This week must be the most media coverage he’s ever had.
In 20 minutes Call Kaye on independence focussing on don’t knows but didn’t mention last night’s BBC Newsnight result of don’t knows which was 2 to 1 for YES
also focussing on the quality of the debate ……………Anas anyone?
The question everyone will be answering exactly a year from today.
SHOULD SCOTLAND BE AN INDPENDENT COUNTRY?
The answer can only be YES.
Ivan McKee was excellent, he’s my kind of guy for these sort of things.
He easily put sanctimonious Massie in his place and had the Labour die-hard Prof. Gallagher gritting his teeth because Mr McKee easily handled his little digs at Independence.
Did you see Gallagher grit his teeth when Pat Kane mentioned socialists were backing Independence?.
Curran was very confused on her nationality.
More Ivan McKee please.
New:
http://derekbatemandotnet1.wordpress.com/
Darling blustering and defensive on GMS, even under the mildest questioning from the wretched Gary Robertson, who forgot once agin to ask who was in charge of the banking regime when it went belly up.
Real sense of Unionist panic in the air – their second headline was about the Aberdeenshire schools poll, so that suggests a probable clear No there (delivered in no small measure thanks to Labour’s apparatchiks in the classroom) is going to be talked up big style by the BBC.
Listening, in and out, this morning, it sounds like more than half of those not saying YES, could be on the teetering brink of it. The BBC is kind of behaving – not yet a total disgrace. The youngsters are nearly all reflecting what their parents think, but even that looks to be heading our way.
This mornings Radio 4 “Today” programme was covering the Referendum with some vigor with a package every 10 minutes or so. I missed Mr Darlings contribution but heard a piece from five 16 year olds, [2Y, 2DK, 1N] who all sounded pretty intelligent with a young lad called Martin who clearly reads this site. There was also a piece about Sir Walter Scott and an interview with Ms Sturgeon.
If the young lassie (who expressed a No opinion) is listening; she was uncertain about YES because she wanted to go to St Martins in London (Drama School) and that it would be too expensive if we voted YES. Indeed, if we stay in the current format it will be expensive because English Uni’s and colleges charge fees to all UK resident students – If Scotland votes YES then under the current terms, she, as an EU student would not pay fees! She also mentioned defence, which aforesaid Martin quickly mentioned the tax input/output argument with regard to Scottish defence spending.
There was a piece on Sir Walter Scott, who I didn’t know was a unionist, but the set of packages I heard were slightly unionist leaning but not as bad as I was expecting.
Ok, some more details from Yougov.
Firstly, the results are not for 2014, but for a referendum tomorrow:
If there was a referendum tomorrow on
Scotland’s future and this was the question,
how would you vote?
Should Scotland be an independent country?
So no predictor of 2014.
They also seem to be attempting to weight differently, using 2011 instead of 2010.
It’s a start, but looks messy. They have ‘Voted labour 2010 but SNP 2011′ as a weighting factor.
The major other problem with Yougov is tabulated…
Weighting to newspaper readership (only pollster to do this):
What’s fascinating, is this is what they figure (weighted) the Scots electorate read:
12%Express / Mail
16%Sun / Star
20%Mirror / Record
6%Independent / Herald
6%Telegraph / Scotsman
20%Other
20%None
Yes, 20% of us read the Mirror or Record.
Now for some circulation figures (July 2013) as a function of total electorate, picking out the two papers with the highest circulation (Sun and Record):
7.4% Sun/Star
5.8%Mirror/Record
Sorry Mirror/Record and Sun/Star, you must have been a little excited there!
So ok, maybe Yougov are being a tad optimistic in terms of readership, but also looks like they need to update their figures here.
I mean the Sun/Star have a circulation 1.3x that of the Mirror / Record not the other way around. And the Sun is more favourable to Yes / backed the SNP in 2011.
Interestingly, whilst Scotland’s newspaper sales have been declining at twice the rate of the rUK for over 12 years now, Yougov have only 20% of Scots not reading a paper compared to 25% in the UK (latest UK poll). Hmmmm….
If they’ve any sense, they’ll stop weighting to newspaper too.
The main thing is, if Yougov keep this up, the pro-union camps favourite poll will certainly have the shine taken off.
A 7% drop for No and 4% rise for Yes is quite a change for such a small adjustment.
O/T,
There is an excellent article by Newsnet Scotland this morning on the YES campaign. It is worth reading in its entirety, especially by those who regularly come on here to whinge about trivialities associated with the YES campaign.
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/8042-the-yes-campaign-doesnt-require-media-approval-its-doing-just-fine
As i say, well worth reading.
As regards the independence march and rally at Calton Hill Edinburgh on Saturday, I think this will go down as one of the greatest days for the people of Scotland, that will only be bettered by the morning after the YES result. The times they are a changing, make no mistake.
Oh, and be sure, the unionist BritNAT controlled lapdug ‘Scottish’ media and the blatantly dishonest and biased BBC in Scotland, will fling everything at us in coming days.
Test
Re call kaye… will someone please tell that bloody Willie Rennie it is a referendum NOT an election!
@Boorach
Text 80295!
Boorach
Ha, the Willie Rennie, that when interviewed at the Libdem conference the other day, about which party the Libdems should form a coalition with after 2015 election gave the game away and said, (and i paraphrase) ‘whichever party is going to give us the most’. Anything for a ministerial mondeo, eh Wullie. The man is a complete and utter joke, respectable only in comparison to that other Libdem sell out, Danny Alexander – I watched his speech yesterday, and the message that came across was a silly wee laddie acting the big important mannie in London. Clowns, the two of them.
Call Kaye!! No thanks!!!
O/T Wow, wow and wow again……this is the most inspiring part of the debate so far for me….for those who missed it…….things are a changing folks!!!
http://nationalcollective.com/2013/09/16/undecided-voter-is-convinced-to-vote-yes-on-radio-5-live/
Tell this guy if he is a Braveheart, dressed in tartan and eating shortbread. This is a real person with real issues about his family……brilliant.
I believe that Aunties great big hairy gluteus maximas is on the verge of exposure revealing what we all knew to be there. (answers on a postcard please)
They cannot run an independence debate on this side of the border, the better together lot have not got a competent team as we have seen in the last week.
They the BBC have to rely on spinning with selected inserted pieces and a bias chairperson pretending to be informed and neutral. Live audiences can now suss them out and we will see a change in direction soon to a more controlled affair, we can’t have Joe or Jenny public interfering with the status quo.
Even a few reliable YES ( sometimes ordinary) folk can blow the better together efforts out the water with a bit of common sense and a wee bit of passion as an added extra.
The Aberdeen school’s vote later this afternoon and if that goes pear shaped for the NO’s then we will all see the faded union jack tattoo on Auntie, dark side of the moon.
Ach… forget the postcards I’ve just said it.
Done Albalha, but my offerings NEVER get airtime with auntie… reckon my number’s on their blacklist.
just have to see how it goes in Inverness this evening as I’ve blagged a ticket in hope of getting my tuppenys worth in
@Boorach
I’ll be watching, give us all a wave!
O/T
Anybody know what has happened to the YES Scotland official website?? It is unavailable.
Re Ivan McKee he was on R4’s World Tonight as well yesterday, here’s the link. The discussion starts at about 26 minutes in, the coverage of the debate is around 9 minutes in. Eddie McGuire and Denise Mina also in discussion.
We’re treated with a visit to Fishers and Donaldson to talk about Dundee cake.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03b0yyy
Listening to Radio 4 today when that bampot Darling came on, I am now my father I shout at the radio now(not just the telly) waffling about debating with AS but no challange over ducking out of debating with anyone else. Nice one Beeb. James Naughtie wot a larf, westminster’s tame jock and the guy from some ‘think tank’, another ‘project fear’ scare story. The piece about Walter Scott was just surreal, who cares if he was a unionist , He has no relevance to 99% of people living in Scotland today(the 1% is academics, heritage and mad people living in another century :)) they might as well as picked Harry Lauder.
Soundslike the telly was worth watching last night. Maybe one day I’ll get one but in the meantime, gods bless the iPlayer.
Can somebody else tell me if yesscotland website is available, as I cannot get it in several browsers, even after clearing the cach. However, if I use a secure corporate VPN, based in Europe (not the UK), I can get it.
Anybody got an insight?
Bighead, thanks for the video link.
Just watched it and I could feel the hairs on my arms move. Its good to know that people in more deprived areas feel there is a better future for them in an Independent Scotland.
O/T . Thanks to all for feedback on last night’s Newsnight interventions.
(I also put the boot into George Osborne – but they edited that bit out L
I can also exclusively confirm that Mags Curran is even more clueless in real life than she appears on the telly (I’m going to buy her a new calculator for her Christmas).
If the Revs OK with it I’m posting info on a few upcoming Business for Scotland events for those interested.
Ambassador Training in Perth
Thursday 3rd October 12.45 for coffee. 1pm – 5pm.
The training is for business people who want to know how to better handle topical conversations on independence, and learn the economic and business facts of the case.
Please confirm your attendance, by sending an email to Ivan.mckee@businessforscotland.co.uk.
Prosperity in an Independent Scotland
Thursday, 19th September
6pm-8.30pm. Holyrood Suite, Jurys Edinburgh, 43 Jeffrey Street.
Manufacturing expert and Business for Scotland Director Ivan McKee will highlight the reasons why he thinks Scotland’s economy will thrive following independence. This will be followed by a Q&A discussion and great networking.
Contact Michael.Gray@businessforscotland.co.uk to register your attendance
An Economic Vision for an Independent Scotland.
Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp
Wednesday, 2nd October. 6pm- 8pm. National Piping Centre.
Register for this event ‘here’,
For full details of the event visit ‘here’.
Call Kaye! ( I know ..I know.. it’s a weakness!!)
BBC is imperialistic and slanted says a caller at 09:24 ish.
Wullie Bain promises JAM and lots of devolved stuff (after the NO), another liar obviously Lamont ; Baillie ; Sawar; Gray have all been caught telling porkies this week so they are scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Kaye sounds a wee bit down……aagh!
Craig says – Debate too complicated .. refers to Norway … its the oil fund … Why trust Westminster to deal with it after their record etc etc.
Wullie struggling now … use of the pound etc Scottish economy to volatile…
Craig tries rebuttle but Kaye cuts him off… par for the course.
Enough said I’ve now heard enough in my 10 minutes and I’m content the folks are not daft.
scottish_skier
Interesting that YG have now produced precisely 2 polls on indy since the question was agreed, and there are significant methodological changes between them, seems unlikely that we actually learn anything at all!
The question has changed – “Scotland leaving the United Kingdom and becoming an Independent Country” now removed and replaced with “Scotland’s future”
The weighting has changed out of all recognition. I don’t think YG has ever used recalled vote before
They’re also filtering by “certainty to vote” (which they usually leave until shortly before an election).
Certainly seems to confirm Panelbase’s statement that none of the pollsters actually know how to poll for a referendum!
Hi folks,
Can somebody on here take a minute to check they can access the YES Scotland website, please. It would be most helpful.
Thanks.
Albalha- Thanks for the link to R4 World Tonight. Eddie is a case isn’t he. Practically word for word the same as every appearance he makes in the media. I can’t believe he thinks the music would die on the day of independence. I suggest he’s been offered something by labour. I just find it strange a person who makes his living from scottish culture thinks it can’t make its own decisions. Hence the suspicion there is a carrot dangling somewhere. Again another union offical out of touch with his membership. Now I rhink of it, is his position on indy the ‘offical’ MU position?
It was not accessible yesterday but is OK since about 09:00 this morning.
http://www.yesscotland.net/
Works for me!
“So ok, maybe Yougov are being a tad optimistic in terms of readership, but also looks like they need to update their figures here.”
Newspaper readership is different to newspaper sales. Typically it’s around 2.5x, so those figures are in the right ballpark.
Yes site working ok, RL, although seems to have undergone a mini-makover..
@sneddon
Well indeed, I’m finding it increasingly difficult to watch, listen to the media, without an unhealthy degree of irritation at the levels of ignorance on display. Watching Pat Kane last night, I have to say, his tolerance shone through, and that, I think ,is what ultimately will win this, much like Elaine C Smith in the Five Live Debate.
Not the politicians. And really who do BT have on their side in terms of the non politicians who can engage with people in a way that really gets to the heart of why we will be doing the right thing for the future of Scotland by voting YES.
Thanks to those above who checked the YES website. I still cannot access it, unless I use a secure VPN based in continental Europe.
Still Getting error 404, on two different browsers, using a London based ISP. All caches, cookies etc were cleared, and browsers re-booted.
Just tried it on third browser, Firefox, on different comp. Still error 404. However, when I conntect Firefox to internet via secure VPN as above, I can get the site no problems.
This seems very odd.
Kirsty Wark didn’t see this one coming \o/
If they were from the borders, which tends to be a Unionist area, then this is an astonishing result.
This is interesting. I’m part of Yes Borders, and the numbers don’t seem that bad in the context you highlight. We’re getting more No than Yes, but not by a huge amount. The guys went to do a mini-canvass in Selkirk, as much as a provocation because Selkirk itself has not got itself organised with a Yes group. Now I remember in the 1990s there was a London Branch member from Selkirk who said he despaired of the place, that if every other town in Scotland voted SNP Selkirk would still be returning a LibDem, and they’d still be Queen and Union Jack ten years after independence.
Well, the Selkirk canvass came out 25% Yes, 35% No, 40% don’t know. If you remove the don’t knows (which we know tend to split to Yes anyway), that’s a 42/58 advantage to No. In Selkirk. A year out from the referendum.
Not bad at all.
Robert, I just got a “this domain does not exist” message. They’re obviously just having IT problems, these things happen.
Robert, I had the same problem with YES Scotland earlier but they are now back online with an updated format. Sometimes these changes take a while to permeate the DNS servers. 🙂
Agreed Pat Kane was excellent. I particularly liked his comment about borders and also when he said to the Unionist Fashionista at the end ‘Ach come on you!’
Brian,
Thanks for help. I know they had a makeover, and when I checked, as you suggest, the google links were out of date too. I still can’t access it though, unless I connect via secure corporate VPN in Europe.
I’ll try later today.
@Ruby Tuesday
Exactly, it’s very powerful, it’s about confidence, about saying ‘how can it be any worse, what have you to fear, the downward spiral of fear of fear etc’.
His little off camera flirtation was priceless, wonder if Ms H blushed a tad.
Aaaaggghhhh, decisions, decisions. Want to march with Wings over Scotland on Saturday, but Yes Borders has acquired a professionally-made banner. All (most? some?) of the Border towns are supposed to be making their own town banners to carry behind the big Yes Borders one, we’ll see how that works out but nice idea.
Of course, all these towns have their own town banners for their Border Ridings celebrations. Oh, I would so much like to see these traditional banners being carried on an independence march. (Ours has a ploughman with his horse and a hell of a lot of streamers.) Of course, half the population of the towns would have a collective heart attack at the very idea, more’s the pity.
I note that Severin is now admitting that there might have been close on 10,000 at last year’s march. Of course, we wouldn’t want to use a low base so that this year’s would have to be represented as having ten times as many people, would we….?
Welcome back Chris Cairns! His contributions always bring a smile to my face.
@Morag
I know….what to do. Last year I was on my own at the march…this year, I’m spoiled for choice. Will be coming with Yes East Dunbartonshire, but will come up to the Albanach for a drink and I’m now trying to work out a way to march some of the time with Yes ED and some of the time with Wings. What a difference a year makes, eh?
YouGov seem all over the place, it is getting embarrassing.
I will stick with Panelbase and ICM.
“I note that Severin is now admitting that there might have been close on 10,000 at last year’s march. Of course, we wouldn’t want to use a low base so that this year’s would have to be represented as having ten times as many people, would we….?”
I noticed that yesterday, and went looking for last year’s coverage to see what they’d said at the time. Curiously, there wasn’t a single article on the Guardian website. I’m certain they can’t have totally ignored it, so what are they hiding?
Given recent slammings, can we expect Nick Clegg to talk about additional “responsibilities” for a devolved Scotland today? Bernard Ponsonby allowed his mate Michael Moore to portray the idea of full Scot Gov control over Income Tax in a few years, while just saying “all responsibility” rather than control of course.
The Jam tomorrow promises are gonna come thick and faster than Roberston Mixed Fruit folks, before you know it we’ll be getting told We’ve never had it so good.
Apologies if i missed it, but were there directions regards Marching with WoS on Saturday? Rev, will you be posting a note nearer the weekend?
Newspaper readership is different to newspaper sales. Typically it’s around 2.5x, so those figures are in the right ballpark.
Thanks; good to have input from a journalist.
I still think this is a flawed weighting approach. Yougov are the only one to do it. Their method in this respect was designed for UK-wide polls (so that means England in essence) where they have found it pretty good.
I’m not so sure it’s a good idea for Scotland. As noted, over the past 12 years, the rate of decline for Scottish newspaper circulations has been around twice that for the UK. Many titles in Scotland now are selling at best 40% of what they were in 2001.
Yougov use the UK national readership survey to base this weighting.
http://www.nrs.co.uk/top-line-readership/
This is a UK-wide survey and from the tables, shows no breakdown or weighting to the Scottish demographic. The Scottish Sun and UK Sun are e.g. grouped together as one ‘Sun’ paper. The Record and the Mirror are considered the same. This is clear from Yougov tables as they do the same groupings.
Scotland has a completely different newspaper ‘demographic’ with different titles and ‘scottish’ versions very different to the rUK in terms of content and political leanings. Therefore, to accurately weight, you need a Scottish national readership survey weighted to the Scottish demographic.
Yougov also don’t tie readership back to voting intention in any way in tables, so we’ve no idea e.g. whether Sun readers in Scotland are more pro-indy. In that sense, we can’t gauge what effect the weighting has.
Certainly it’s weird that Scotland apparently has more mainstream newspaper readers than the UK as a whole even though circulations are declining at twice the rate. However, this is weighted numbers; those saying ‘other paper’ (e.g. WoS, newsnet 🙂 ) have been weighted down by a fair margin. As have those replying ‘no paper’. This is of course done due to the assumption that Scotland reads papers just like the rUK, which it does not.
The biggest gains from this down-weighting of ‘other’ and ‘no-paper’ is Record/Mirror readers – both Labour stalwarts. They got a 1.8 x boost and that’s the biggest group in this weighting area. The ‘other’ and ‘no paper’ people were down-weighted by 15-20%.
The fact that they have more Record/Mirror readers than Sun/Star readers is case in point. That is a UK-wide weight. Scotland has the opposite; considerably more Sun/Star readers compared to Record/Mirror readers.
This is not a reliable weighting method. Scotland is not England.
“Want to march with Wings over Scotland on Saturday, but Yes Borders has acquired a professionally-made banner.”
Hey! WE HAZ FLAG!
http://twitpic.com/de0etg
AND badges. DO YES BORDERS HAVE STYLISH ENAMEL BADGES?
I know….what to do. Last year I was on my own at the march…this year, I’m spoiled for choice.
Last year I arrived on the Dumfries bus. I’d blagged a lift because I knew the bus would have to pass very close to my house – but I didn’t really know anyone on the bus which was a little odd because I spent a week in Dunfries campaigning for the 1999 election. And Arbroath1320 had had to call off. So I left them when we got the the Meadows, after getting the return arrangements.
Almost immediately I ran into an old friend who had been convener of London Branch when I was a member there, and I hung out with him while we were in the Meadows. Once the march got going I left him to get closer to the front, but quite soon I realised that SNP Borders had a banner and were just behind me. So I joined up with my friends in Tweeddale SNP branch at that point and marched most of the way with them.
Somehow that group dissipated in the Gardens and I spent the rally on my own, but it was still great fun, and I was able to talk to lots and lots of different people. And the girl with the free tablet gave me two pieces! (I wonder how much she’s made for this year? Probably been slaving over a hot stove for a month.)
I was a bit amused on seeing that I was marching more or less with Kenny MacAskill for the last little bit of the route. What with me being involved with Justice for Megrahi that was a touch ironic.
This year I’m travelling independently so as not to be constrained about return time. If I leave my car at Cameron Toll, if the worst comes to the worst I can get a taxi back that far. I’m with friends, but they’re both going on the disabled bus up the hill so we may not touch base too much. And a work colleague is coming with a daughter and his brother, but again I don’t know if I’ll see them.
Yes Borders didn’t throw a complete wobbly last night when I indicated that I’d like to march with WoS, anyway. I mean, when else do I get the chance to hang out with you guys for real?
Hey! WE HAZ FLAG!
http://twitpic.com/de0etg
AND badges. DO YES BORDERS HAVE STYLISH ENAMEL BADGES?
No badges, I don’t think. At the meeting last night I sort of muttered, I’d like to march with Wings over Scotland, and nobody actually physically lynched me.
I just thought the idea of all the Borders towns having their own banners and marching behind the Yes Borders banner was a nice one. But I’m sure they have enough people.
There is a big rabblerousing Yes Borders meeting in Galashiels at 7 o’clock on Friday evening. We’ve got Blair Jenkins speaking and everything. So much for a quiet evening to get ready….
@Morag at 10.11am
“… a 42/58 advantage to No. In Selkirk. A year out from the referendum.”
Another anecdote along the same lines. In Glasgow Kelvin we were bracing ourselves for a sharp bump back to earth when we started canvassing Hyndland, after great returns in Partick, Broomhill etc. It’s a small sample but so far we have 40% Yes, 32% No, 28% Undecided. A 55/45 Yes lead (discounting DKs) with a year to go, in the poshest part of the west end of Glasgow! Nae bad indeed.
Scottish Skier can this YouGov poll be fixed, as in correctly weighted?
Scottish Skier can this YouGov poll be fixed, as in correctly weighted?
No, as they don’t tie voting intention (either party support or Y/N) to readership.
Suffice to say if you could, it should reduce No and increase Yes as it is Labour reading record readers who have gained the most and ‘no paper / other’ who have lost out. I suspect the latter would be more indy leaning / getting news from online sources such as this site.
HandandShrimp says:
“Is that where the Yellow Carvel used to be?”
Yes it is HandandShrimp! We used to frequent it regularly back in 75/6. That memory sparked off a question. There was a band that played there then who were not unlike Wishbone Ash had a couple of superb guitarists. Annoyingly none of us can remember the name – the joys if auld age!