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Anas Sarwar lie update

Posted on September 17, 2013 by

We’ve just had a response from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation to our article of this morning. The Foundation has confirmed on the record, through its Twitter account, that the deputy leader of Labour in Scotland misrepresented its views on the BBC Radio 5 Live debate yesterday morning. Its reaction is below.


Just to reiterate: our question was “So it’s fair to say he misrepresented your position?”, and the answer was “Yes”. If Mr Sarwar has any decency at all, he’ll offer a public apology to the Foundation, the Scottish Government, and the live and broadcast audiences he lied to yesterday. So we’re not expecting one.

And if we were you, we probably wouldn’t hold our breath waiting for the Scottish media coverage tomorrow either. But let’s hope we’re wrong, eh?

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172 to “Anas Sarwar lie update”

  1. Albalha says:

    Did they say anything about the main focus being the referendum, as AS claimed they’d said?

  2. HandandShrimp says:

    Scottish Media: “But we can’t go after Sarwar he is a Labour politician He is one of our own. It must be Salmond’s fault he got the detail of that report wrong”

  3. Desimond says:

    Anas Sarwar is on Twitter…hasnt he or one of his SPADs responded yet?

  4. Big Jock says:

    Yes if it was Salmond they would be calling for a public apology in parliament. Nothing will happen. The really sad thing is that you can now legitimately come on a tv or debate programme and make something up if you are a Unionist and not be challenged. It means that there is no truth in politics from their side. That’s not debate that’s propaganda!

  5. EdinScot says:

    This is why you are worth every single one of our pennies WoS.  Imagine it was an SNP msp or mp.  I mean imagine the hoo ha as they would be calling for them to apologise live on tv, an emergency statement from the FM, that they should resign be sacked.  It would be a 24/7 circus yet now its one of the Unionists very own, all i hear is the tumbleweed.  Anus Sarwar is in the right company along with the likes of Lamont, Bailie, Baker the list goes on and on.   What a disgrace the msm is.  Lying on state sponsored radio, its like being in a banana republic.  They demonstrate ably why we will work even harder to achieve our independence and get their  jackboot off the Scottish peoples throats for all time.

  6. Albert Herring says:

    @anassarwar Twitter silence for last 27 hrs

  7. Ronnie says:

    I found Anas Sarwar to be very persuasive.
    After all, he’s persuaded me to join the ever-growing band of ‘Telly-Yellers’, every time he opens his gob.

  8. Edulis says:

    I will now make reference to the lie if I can get a comment in on the Big Debate tomorrow night. If Sarwar is there in person I will ask him to apologise on the spot and write to the JR Foundation.

  9. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Edulis: brilliant. Please do.

  10. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

    Edulis: brilliant. Please do.

  11. Helpmaboab says:

    I’ve been trying to formulate a dignified and articulate response to this news. Unfortunately I’m too angry to think straight so this will have to do:
    Aah, that’s better.

  12. heraldnomore says:

    Anyone yet to see Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp from Business for Scotland set out the economic case can do so now:
    Courtesy of the excellent Yes Clydesdale f/b pages

  13. gordoz says:

    If Mr Sarwar has any decency at all, he’ll offer a public apology to the Foundation, the Scottish Government, and the live and broadcast audiences he lied to yesterday. So we’re not expecting one

    Nice one :

    Edulis – Make Sarwar aware that you know the R foundation has contacted him regarding this.

  14. EdinScot says:

    Edulis  – That would make fantastic car crash tv.  Go for it!

  15. Don’t forget that the BBC record the event prior to televising the event as live, R5 debate was recorded on Sunday before airing on Monday.

  16. Albalha says:

    @cynical highlander
    Eh no that was broadcast live yesterday morning, not a pre record.

  17. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    Isnt it ironic that a clear passionate voice from a young lady [Saffron] can shine amongst the babbling gobbledygook of a supposed spokesperson for Scotland. Is his brain in touch with his mouth? Does he actually know how much derision he envokes?

    When you contrast his spoken crap with the passion of young and older members of the TV debate its not hard to imagine black shadowy things taking him away to another place.

  18. Scroggie says:

    O/T but a Dundee mobile app maker has just released a referendum app. See here
    I don’t have an iPhone so I can’t get it.

  19. @Albalha
    Are you sure because I heard on air that it was Sunday but I could be wrong.

  20. Albalha says:

    I am sure.

  21. G H Graham says:

    Sarwar is a liar.
    But then so is “The Herald”.
    So don’t expect a rebuke in print then.

  22. Andy-B says:

    Well done Rev, in getting to the heart of the matter.
    It seem Mr Sarwar, has been given a free role to tell as many lies as he likes as long as it smears the SNP and sways voters who arent completely clued up yet.
    Pinocchio, is an amateur compared to this guy.

  23. jim jamieson says:

    Anas will be black n blue when the Truth Team are finished with him…

  24. Salt Ire says:

    Edulis, please refrain from putting Agent Sarwar on the spot at this early stage.  He still has a lot to offer the Yes campaign by his very presence and you could lead to him being “retired” by BT.

  25. seoc says:

    @ edin scot
    Please, banana republics have some fine features
    Keech has more self respect than Anus.

  26. Gillie says:

    In summary:
    Sarwar is a liar.
    Saffron is a saint. 
    Can we go on that?

  27. jim mitchell says:

    Given that the main sections of the unionist parties i.e. not the Scottish bits, are starting to concentrate more and more on the next General election, i reckon that this will mean that the likes of Mr Sarwar and Jackie Baillie and Co could be left on their own for a while to deal with Referendum issues, throw in Darling and MacDougal with their deft touch and we could be in for a time of rich pickings.

    I for one am beginning to get the impression that the No campaign is becoming more and more like the little boy who stuck his finger in the hole to stop the Dam water from flooding the surrounding land, only there’s far two many holes now for them to cope, even with the aid of their media chums.

    Let’s keep poking!

  28. Tommy McMillan says:

    The labour party membership are doing a great job of not knowing when to keep their daft gobs shut .First it was the Muppet they call Lamont and now the brother of the VAT dodger Sarwar.As a nationalist and Yes campaigner am very grateful to these fools in doing our work for us that being turning the labour voter’s over to our cause .No one likes a lier. …………..Alba Gu snooker loopy! !!!

  29. handclapping says:

    I doubt there will be anything in the MSM.  “Politician Lies” is not newsworthy.
    However it might be worth asking why Sarwar’s outright lies are not newsworthy when Alex’s non-specific procrastination was.

  30. Helpmaboab says:

    I’m just glad that “keech” got past the Rev’s profanity filter.
    I’ll have to experiment with other sweary-words. “Bawbag” perhaps? It would apply to so many unionist politicians…

  31. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I’m just glad that “keech” got past the Rev’s profanity filter.”

    I have a what now?

  32. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “In summary:
    Sarwar is a liar.
    Saffron is a saint.
    Can we go on that?”

    I have decreed that the correct form of address for Saffron is “Scotland’s Sweetheart”, SO THAT’S THAT. You’ll be pleased to hear she’s just agreed to pen a piece for Wings.

  33. Les Wilson says:

    Just how long can they get away with this crap? 
    I think Sanwar and his BT comrades are being rumbled by the public now, what they are doing is becoming recognised. People are fed up with them and becoming more so!
    After 2014 I cannot see a new Scottish Labour, electing any of them , they are all liabilities, suggest they start looking to their future now!

  34. handclapping says:

    Its that mental one you spoke of. Where you type Anus and think Anas? 🙂

  35. GrutsForTea says:

    When Pinocchio Sarwar grows up he wants to be a real MP.

  36. Ron Maclean says:

    I’m sure Alistair “I speak for Scotland” Darling will have plenty to say on our behalf.  He won’t tolerate untruth. Will he?

  37. david says:

    he wants to be lord anus

  38. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Rev Stu – Thanks for editing my post regarding Saffron. A slip on my part.

  39. david says:

    im just wild about saffron

  40. @david
    Are you Donovan?

  41. Helpmaboab says:

    I’ve committed a terrible sin, haven’t I?
    By using the words “Anas” and “keech” in the same sentence I’ve opened the door to all sorts of improper humour.
    Oh well, there you go.

  42. david says:

    i wish saffron was wild about me, shes lovely

  43. Jingly Jangly says:

    Surely the Herald et al will have to print a correction, I stopped buying it due to its habit of
    printing Labour press releases as fact and its general unionist bias, so have not seen
    what it says regarding the labour liar.

    Should we not be complaining to the press complaints commission?

  44. Marcia says:

    The Guardian’s latest article, and no, you cannot comment on it.

  45. david says:

    gonna be millions there on saturday

  46. Lanarkian says:

    A glitch on the link quoted to the “Economics of Independence” video by Business for Scotland’s Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp.
    It should be:

    The video is also broken down into three episodes. find these – and the full version at

  47. Juteman says:

    Serious question.
    Many moons ago, there was a Scottish Labour politician or two that I respected, even if I disagreed with them over Scottish independence.
    I honestly can’t think of a single Labour politician these days that I respect. Maybe the ‘decent’ ones are keeping quiet.
    I like to think of myself as a socialist, and find this very depressing.
    Are they extinct?

  48. david says:

    i know what you mean, i thought more of richard simpson but he has fell in line behind lamonts aggresive smearing, to me, anyone who would accept johann lamont as their leader doesnt deserve respect

  49. Famous15 says:

    Re Saturday 21stSeptember
    “And there will be no hooliganism,there will be no vandalism,there will be no bevvying,because the world is watching us and it is our responsibility to conduct ourselves with responsibility and with dignity and with maturity”  and I am no gonny get to take the grand weans if there is!

  50. CameronB says:

    I’m over my broadband limit for the month, so I’m afraid I’m all out of ducks.
    I think those who dismiss Anas as a numpty are perhaps missing the point about him. As has been pointed out by others, he is a wrecker and he is doing it deliberately.
    Duckspeak is a Newspeak term meaning literally to quack like a duck or to speak without thinking. Duckspeak can be either good or “ungood” (bad), depending on who is speaking, and whether what they are saying is in following with the ideals of Big Brother. To speak rubbish and lies may be ungood, but to speak rubbish and lies for the good of “The Party” may be good. In the appendix to 1984, Orwell explains:

    “Ultimately it was hoped to make articulate speech issue from the larynx without involving the higher brain centres at all. This aim was frankly admitted in the Newspeak word duckspeak […]. Like various words in the B vocabulary, duckspeak was ambivalent in meaning. Provided that the opinions which were quacked out were orthodox ones, it implied nothing but praise, and when the Times referred to one of the orators of the Party as a doubleplusgood duckspeaker it was paying a warm and valued compliment.”

    —Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

    An example of a skillful duckspeaker in action is provided in the beginning of chapter 9, in which an Inner Party speaker is haranguing the crowd about the crimes of Eurasia when a note is passed into his hand; he does not stop speaking for a moment, or change his voice or manner, but (according to the changed party line) he now condemns the crimes of Eastasia, which is Oceania’s new enemy.

  51. Albalha says:

    Is Malcolm Chisholm not a decent bloke?

  52. call me dave says:

    No Lord of the rings!

  53. Dan Huil says:

    Thank God for WOS; another excellent piece of journalism.
    Any chance WOS could be printed up as a free newspaper to handed out in public places?
    Legally,could a member of the public do it off his or her own bat?

  54. david says:

    im off for a fish supper, anyone want 1 ?

  55. muttley79 says:

    Yes, Malcolm Chisholm is a decent bloke. 
    @Les Wilson
    Just how long can they get away with this crap?
    They will try until at least the 19th of September next year…
    Incidentally, does anyone know how the JRF thinks the SG could use its existing powers in a better way?  I do not mean that in a accusatory way, I am just curious.  On Sarwar, can’t say I am surprised at all with his remarks…

  56. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Legally,could a member of the public do it off his or her own bat?”

    Legally folk can do anything they want with it if I say it’s fine.

  57. Juteman says:

    “Is Malcolm Chisholm not a decent bloke?”
    I don’t know. He needs to speak up if he is?

  58. Murray McCallum says:

    It seems to me that keeping abreast of Anas Sarwar’s lies and maintaining an update on each and every one of them is a bit like counting stars in the sky.

  59. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    I prefer “arsefire” to “duckspeak”

  60. Linda's Back says:

    Just saw BBC TVs Generation 2014 of young voters  the No girl was a real soor puss whilst the Yes girl was bubbly and enthusiastic.
    That for me sums up the respective campaigns.

  61. Albalha says:

    Channel 4 in Glasgow talking about that vote next year. Cathy Newman in search of the ‘Braveheart tendency’ ….why are more men convinced then women etc.
    They just can’t resist.

  62. Brian Powell says:

    On Unionist lies, there is an important article on Newsnet Scotland about Scotland and Catalonia in the EU. The distortion was introduced by the Scotsman, deliberately, concerning a statement by Joaquin Alumnia, vice-president of the European Commission, where he was speaking in a personal capacity as a proUnion Spanish politician, but the Scotsman gave the impression he was talking as voice of the EU.
    Two interesting points, among many others,

    “Scotland’s referendum is legal and counts on the recognition of the Westminster Parliament.  Under the terms of the Edinburgh Agreement, Westminster has pledged to accept the result of the independence referendum, which in turns means that Westminster would recognise and accept the future independence of Scotland.  Following such a process, no other country would have any legal or political grounds to block Scotland’s membership of the EU.”

    Also concerning a huge Unionist/BBC distortion about the Irish Minster’s statement on Scotland in the EU,

    “Ms Creighton’s remarks were misrepresented by the BBC.  The BBC Trust has now announced it is to investigate BBC Scotland’s inaccurate, highly selective and misleading report.”

  63. Juteman says:

    All these other ex British Empire countries.
    How the hell did they manage to get their independence without Mel Gibson?

  64. Training Day says:


    It was worse than that. ‘Why are more men tempted to risk independence than women’ quoth the metropolitan nitwit presenter. Risk.. A nice balanced discussion awaits then. Oh, and all the evidence Alistair Darling has seen shows Scots are against independence.

    Londoncentric metropolitan head up arse drivel. Here on channel 4.

  65. Albalha says:

    @Training Day @juteman
    I think we need to complain to Channel 4 about this not only the ‘Braveheart tendency’ but that it’s a ‘risk’, simply not on.

  66. Castle Rock says:

    The Guardian can’t help themselves either, their latest article has a headline of:
    “Scottish separatists plan final push”
    So much for respect eh.

  67. Juteman says:

    I have about an hour to myself each day.
    Should I spend that hour complaining, or drinking beer and surfing the pro Indy blogs? 🙂

  68. CameronB says:

    Dave McEwan Hill
    I do like “arsefire” as it encapsulates the sense of directed attack we are all under.
    In a V sense though, would it not be more accurately directed towards BT?  (pedant?) 🙂

  69. Bubbles says:

    @ Helpmaboab
    Which door did you open, exactly? If it was the front you’re safe. If it was….
    I’ll get my coat 😉

  70. Dramfineday says:

    Lamont and Sarwar – lies and smears – Headlined grabbed – job done. Scottish media too paralysed with fear to tackle them – pathetic. YES the SNP and every other interested party need to tackle this head on – NOW.
    On a lighter note GrutsForTea says: When Pinocchio Sarwar grows up he wants to be a real MP. In some-one else’s country I hope Gruts!
    Famous15 says: Re Saturday 21stSeptember “And there will be no bevvying”
    Jings that’s a facer right enough, what with everyone meeting in the Albanach and all. Wonder if the Major could offer tea and scones instead?

  71. muttley79 says:

    The MSM in the UK serve the British state.  It does not really matter whether it is BBC, Channel 4, ITN and STV.  Ultimately I do not think it really matters what organisation it is, they all know who their master is.  The fact that they say independence is a risk tells you all you need to know about what their views on it are.  It clearly has not entered their heads that a No vote is a risk, they assume it is the correct option.  I am afraid the MSM in the UK, and that includes the press in Scotland, cannot see past London rule.  I think we should turn it to our own advantage though.  The fools have given us all the motivation we will ever need to secure a Yes vote.  Lets make them eat their words…

  72. Helpmaboab says:

    You’re proving my point already, you cheeky monkey,
    I hereby declare that there will henceforth be no more saucy comments, double entendres, toilet humour or other such wordplay on the the subject of “Anas Sarwar MP”.
    Ye’ve been telt!

  73. Juteman says:

    I wonder if Ch 4 will talk about 1066, and the battle of Hastings, the next time talk of the UK leaving the EEC is mentioned? Patronising bastards.

  74. Juteman says:

    Lets be honest, the SNP know they won’t win, and the referendum is all about grabbing more powers.
    Ch 4 is now binned!

  75. Juteman says:

    I’m watching no more British TV news until after September the 14th.
    For my own sanity, and to keep myself from punching certain folk.

  76. Jeannie says:

    Channel 4 report an utter disgrace!  Bias all over it.  Mind you, that arse Ian Martin just boosted the Yes vote with his sneering attitude.

  77. Emma says:

    That was awful. Not sure I can face watching the next bit.

  78. Boorach says:

    Be fair Juteman, it is all about grabbing more powers.
    All the powers needed to be a free and independent nation strutting our stuff on the international stage!

  79. Helpmaboab says:

    I deleted all of the BBC and Channel 4 services from my TV during the Jubilee events of last summer. They were giving me a severe case of the dry boak.
    Since then I haven’t restored them and I don’t miss either of them at all.
    On the rare occasions when I now encounter either of the state broadcasters I can see their agenda much more clearly.

  80. Juteman says:

    I thought the BBC was bad, but Cathy Newman just did a total hatchet job on Scots Indy.
    A curious statement by her at the end though, about folk spoken to on the show have now changed their minds. What is that all about?

  81. Juteman says:

    I really wish I still paid my BBC Tax so I could stop paying it again. 🙂

  82. jrewen says:

    ok just listened to the 2 hours of debate of the 5 live programme and the result is that the audience was can hear it via peters you tube page
    listen up bbc and stv. 5 live have done a great job here.
    i heard people from scotland wales england and northern ireland more than the panel of guests.
    the presenter was very good at getting people to speak clearly and not talk over one another. also she was good at stopping the politicians rambling.  
    hearing the thoughts of the audience was the best thing about the debate, letting them debate amongst themselves was how it should be.
    i tell you it made me greet about 5 times listening to it. the focal point for me was that an indy scotland will be able to change this country for the better faster than westminister.
    the comments about child poverty in glasgow are just shocking and its enough. we need to fix this, we need to make it better, how do we do it,,fast. 
    get all the controls on power in scotland and do it.
    i’ve worked in special needs schools in the east end of glasgow, some are like bunkers. 
    labour has been in power in glasgow to long and it needs to change, it is shocking.
    loved the debate, love the opportunity we have next year to make a difference.
    just vote yes

  83. Albalha says:

    Mr Martin what a prat, so for him if we vote YES the metaphor is Scotland in Argentina 1978, but as you say he was so banal it is positive for a YES vote.
    I though the National Collective young woman did rather well, didn’t say much but rather deftly turned the Scotland vs England question on its head.
    @juteman You could take 5 minutes over three days from your free hour and fire of a complaint, you could even drink beer at the same time.

  84. Frazer Allan Whyte says:

    I found the title redundant – even from one continent over it is obvious that Anas Sarwar himself updates his lies with depressingly shameless regularity. While politicians are not known for their veracity what is it about Labor pols in Scotland that makes slips of the tongue the only occasion where they might tell the truth? And it is this lying atmosphere that has attracted the liberal party to convene there? Is this the shit-fly dichotomy in action?

  85. muttley79 says:

    The MSM’s in the UK’s attitude to Scotland is revealing.  They would never think about referring in the way they do to Scotland to other small European nations, such as Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Belgium, Denmark, and the Republic of Ireland.  To people like Cathy Newman Scotland is a possession of the British state.  They do not actually care about us.  It is the power they think they have over Scotland that they prize, not the nation itself.  I have often been struck by this kind of an attitude from the media, both in Scotland and down south.  Personally I view it as the equivalent of a parent who constantly tells a child of theirs that they will never amount to anything.  Instead of telling their kid that they have so much potential, they only offer negativity and disparaging comments.  It is sad really.

  86. Bill C says:

    0/t No Newsnight Scotland tonight.  UK Newsnight discussing independence from a location in the Borders 10.30 -11.20

  87. Craig P says:

    Re Cathy Newman. Could it be because women are watching the great British Bake Off and buying union jack cushions from John Lewis and thus more influenced by the ‘imperialist tendency’? Which is no more flippant an analysis than Channel 4s. 

  88. jim mitchell says:

    O/T but oh dear there at it again.

    Dear Jim,
    What would independence mean for our currency and mortgage rates?
    That’s the question researchers at one of Britain’s top research institutes have been considering. 
    Economists at the National Institute of Economic and Social Research have looked at what different currency arrangements would mean if we were to leave the UK.  
    What is clear is that none of the options open to an independent Scotland would be as good as what we have right now.
    The researchers have produced an animation explaining their findings. It’s pretty detailed but we think it explains things well and is worth a watch:

    Share this video with your friends on Facebook
    As part of the UK, we have our own currency. We set our own interest rates. We have the strength and security of the bigger United Kingdom behind us if things go wrong. The nationalists’ plans put all of that at risk.
    What is also clear is that interests rates would be higher if we left the UK. The researchers estimate that an independent Scotland would “face additional interest rate costs of between 0.72% to 1.65% above the UK borrowing costs”. Higher mortgages and higher bills are the last thing we need right now.
    If you do one thing today, please watch and share this video with your friends and family.
    As ever, thanks for all your support
    Gordon Aikman
    Director of Research
    Better Together

  89. Albalha says:

    Thanks for the heads up. Also I think tonight or tomorrow World Tonight on R4 at 10 is coming from Glasgow and will be discussing that vote.
    But you know well O/T Davie Moyes’ team doing rather well in this football game.

  90. The Rough Bounds says:

    At the moment Sarwar doesn’t give a monkey’s what any of us say about him. I imagine he considers himself untouchable. He is financially loaded. He is young. His future within the Labour Party is assured. He has pals in all sorts of high places. If things go politically pear shaped for him he can just call Daddy and he’ll get fitted up with a cool job in either Pakistan or the Pakistani embassy or their High Commission in London. You might say that he has it made.
    This is all just a game to him, same as it was with his old man. He is simply using us.
    If there is a chink in this bloke’s armour that could bring him down it would be by getting him to admit publically that he doesn’t give a bugger about Scotland and the Scots, their Christian religion or their culture. But I suspect he isn’t dim enough to do that.

  91. Well done in getting it straight from the Rowntree Foundation’s mouth. It’ll be interesting to see if the press pick it up (I won’t hold my breath).
    Meanwhile I’ve been addressing some of Darling’s delusional status issues: The Flea on the Back of the Organ Grinder’s Monkey.

  92. Albalha says:

    I’m no economist but you know the idea of a wee hike in interest rates, regardless of its veracity, may backfire on the BT bunch, as the older, possibly Unionist inclined, savers may just think, well I’ll vote YES if I can get a greater return on my savings.
    More and more I just want to get us over that line, how we get there, I’ll worry about later. 

  93. Roboscot says:

    Only saw enough of Channel 4 to see the presenter talking over Fiona Hyslop having just listened in silence to some unionist. Just shows the Scottish media aren’t alone in their conduct.

  94. Jingly Jangly says:

    Re interest rates higher in an independent Scotland, they cant stop us using Sterling therefore interest rates will be identical, if its in our own interest then later we may move to either our own currency or the euro, either way you can be sure that it will be in Scotlands interest to do so if that happens, If it does happen it will probably be  because UK interest rates have gone through the roof as they cant afford to service their massive borrowing without Scotland’s resources. The pound is gaining against other currencies at present I think due to the fact that international investors/speculators are gambling on the UK interest rates going up in the near future See this article in The  Spectator in June this year.

  95. Training Day says:

    Channel 4 tonight confirmed that we really are regarded by London as a backward tribe whose instinct to boil the civilised inhabitants south of Watford in a cauldron might be assuaged by the offer of a few shiny beads.

  96. Iain says:

    @The Rough Bounds
    ‘he doesn’t give a bugger about Scotland and the Scots, their Christian religion or their culture’
    Tbh the amount of buggerage I give about our religions(s) is pretty limited. In fact just about the only thing that Sarwar could do to lessen my contempt for him is if he was to give a two-fingered salute to religion in general. Chances of that though are sweet fa, so my contempt is safe.

  97. Marcia says:

    Has the Yes Scotland website been tampered with – all I get 404 error when trying to view their website?

  98. R4 at 10pm will be discussing our independence why all the sudden interest throughout in north Britain very strange indeed.

  99. Linda's back says:

    Training day
    Channel 4 debate here
    Had to take double take when Michael Moore says Glasgow has done well as part of the Union
    and Ian martin says the it is an accidental referendum as the SNP didn’t expect to win the 2011 election.
    That’s why they spent over  £1 million and campaigned for months.

  100. Jingly Jangly says:

    This one is also worth reading…..
    If I remember rightly Labour claimed it would take 400 years for the UK  to pay off the National  debt (Blaming the Tories economic policies) If we accept our population share of the UK National debt (approx.100 billion) then we can pay it off in ten years. Its a no brainer hopefully Novembers white paper will address these issues.

  101. Albalha says:

    Re the level of coverage a missive has been issued in BBC London HQ that they must cover the debate, clearly more quantitative than qualitative. Their thinking is it leaves no room for complaint about the lack of coverage.
    I hear a Newsnight London programme will be airing soon from somewhere in Scotland, that may sound facetious, but I am being factual.

  102. Doonfooter says:

    O/T Rev. Stu Can I give a wee plug to the Ayrshire Matters Scottish Independence Debate – Should Scotland Be Independent? This Thursday 19th September from 7pm at Ayr Town Hall, The Sandgate Ayr.
     Ayrshire Matters have arranged for two local Tory councillors to speak on behalf of Better Together. For the Yes camp we have local SNP MSP Chic Brodie and South Ayrshire for Independence’s very own Bill Boyd.
     Ayrshire Matters have a Facebook page here:-
     Not often we get a real chance to debate with Better Together so for those in Ayrshire please click, share and try and come along. The Ayrshire Post is covering the debate so it would be great to get a good Yes attendance.
    Thanks Rev.

  103. eva says:

    @ Marcia re Yes Scotland – am getting that 404 error too 🙁

  104. ScotFree1320 says:

    O/T but as you would expect, the Torygraph is making hay with NIESR report
    There’s even a poll with the leading article.
    You’ll just love the NIESR’s suggestion to offset debt!

  105. Jingly Jangly says:

    Rough Bounds
    Let us not bring Religion into it, it does not make you any less or more  of a Scot if you don’t belong to the Christian Church, Im Scottish with red hair in the family and freckles and I am not a Christian although recently I have been considering becoming a ordained minister in the Pastararians (Flying Spagetti Monster Church)
    Anas may be misguided but he has as much right to make his views known as anybody.
    O/T this is a plug for the Aye (Arran Yes Event) which starts at 11.30am tomorrow
    in Corrie Village hall, Craft fair, information, discussion, etc, Open on Thursday as well.

  106. @ Albalha
    Their English/Welsh listeners must be gettig pissed off with the amount of interest by the BBC ignoring their concerns.   I see it that Prof Curtice has had words that he cannot hide what is really happening in the polls conducted so far.    The times they are a changing.

  107. Keef says:

    With regards Saffron (Scotland’s sweetheart) if ever anyone needed proof how a positive argument beats a negative one every time, they need only look at the two contrasting messages she and the ‘no’ girl make.
    Saffron really is one of Scotland’s sweethearts and her message and attitude should be replayed over and over to the ‘don’t knows’.
    I’m looking forward to reading her piece for WOS Rev. She really is a turning point in this campaign.

  108. Bill C says:

    Margrit’s on Newsnight 10.30- this should be fun!

  109. Bill C says:

    YES website down. Hacked again?

  110. CameronB says:

    Re. Channel 4. I always thought they were anti-Scotish, just a bit more sleekit than the BBC. Apart, of course, from Jon Snow.

  111. Morag says:

    Well, if we’re plugging stuff, Blair Jenkins is at the big Yes Borders meeting in Gala on Friday.  That’s right.  The evening before the march.  In bloody Gala, an hour’s drive away.
    Never mind.  A small canvass in Selkirk got Yes 25%, No 35%, don’t know 40%.  Bear in mind the Border towns are supposed to be very stony ground for Yes.  A year out from the vote, that’ll do me.

  112. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Keef – Just to expand your thoughts here is a FB comment from Ellon Academy who had their S6 mini referendum today, results tomorrow :
    Loved that feeling of putting a big ‘X’ beside ‘Yes’!!
    These young folk are on the roll. [Electoral and more]

  113. Jingly Jangly says:

    Just read the torygraph report,  I could not believe the bit about swapping our oil for less debt.
    What the SG will be doing is swapping our share of UK Assets like embassies, UK Govt buildings, Aircraft Carriers, Aircraft, Nuclear Submarines etc for our share of the debt. Unlikely as it sounds the UK still has more wealth in assets than debt, therefore we could have no debt to service from Independence Day. We also need to get it across that we will have a long pensions holiday as the UK will have to continue to pay the pensions of those who are claiming pensions on Independence day and a pro-rata share of new pensions. We have all paid our National Insurance taxes to the UK Govt. My Mate wrote to the UK Pensions dept saying he was concerned that he would not get his pension if Scotland voted YES, they confirmed in writing to him that if Scotland voted yes his pension would continue to be paid by the UK Govt the same as if a UK pensioner had move to Spain or any other EU Countriy or others like Australia etc.

  114. rabb says:

    Jingly Jangly,
    I’ve been saying this for months. The BoE can’t hold interest rates this low for too much longer. They’ll have to raise them across the board to curb inflation. When they do, the bond market will be put under extreme pressure to the point of bombing.
    Max Keiser made an interesting observation that the big boys are now starting to sell bonds to joe public. This is a sure fire sign that they see the trouble ahead and are now desperately trying to offload their risk onto the public. This market was a closed shop strictly for the big boys only. Not any more it ain’t! They’ll offload their risk to you quite happily now.
    My fear is that this recent push for workplace pensions is Gideon building a war chest to buy him time. He’ll step right in when he feels like it and seize every fucking pension pot and savings account he can get his hands on.
    If you value your pension and savings folks, get the fuck out of the union coz Gideon has his eye on it 🙂

    If you choose not to then invest in wheelbarrows coz we’ll all need one to get our wages home at the end of the week!!
    You’ve been warned!

  115. Jingly Jangly says:

    Rabb, spot on, infact Moneyweek in their End of Britain article several months ago
    said that private pensions would be raided in the event of another banking collapse which is what will happen when the bond market goes tits up, Gideon and co are desperately trying to keep things looking good for the next year, their plan seems to be working so far, give their pals in the southeast massive tax breaks on 600k plus homes so it distorts the housing market to “show” that the economy is growing, a bonus is that the injobs total goes up as the only growth is with new estate agents being hired. I was down in Yorkshire at the weekend and everybody I spoke to thought that things were getting better and everything would be fine and dandy again soon, they are in for a big shock….
    I cant see them managing this delusion for a year but if we vote No we will know about it shortly after….

  116. velofello says:

    Well done Rev. very satisfying expose though I very much doubt that An-ass Sarwar will be speechless with embarassment.
    What next for “Scottish Labour”. We’ve had Subways Ian,now returned,Baker,resting? Lamont-summer hols. and now returned with a stupid howler over land sales,what no pillow talk with hubby?
    Baillie and now Sarwar – both strangers to the truth – mired in faux pas within a week of each other. Who will be next to step up to the plate? Or will it be a merry-go round of “Scottish Labour” big beasts to frighten us?

  117. The Rough Bounds says:

    jingly jangly (!)
    I think you and Iain are missing the point. Whether you like it or not (and to be honest I couldn’t give a bugger what you like. Eat Scott’s porridge oats till red hair comes out of your freckly ears for all I care) the Scottish culture, like the rest of northern Europe, is overwhelmingly Christian. I suggest that you go back and read my posting again and try to assimilate. Take your time.
    Incidentally, while you are at it, look up an etymological dictionary and check out the difference between ‘faith’ and ‘religion’. You will see that I didn’t ”bring religion into it”.

  118. castle hills chavie says:

    Rough Bounds………..You did mention religion.
    Check your own post.09:15 pm

  119. castle hills chavie says:

    That was my 5th post..
    Does that make me a cybernat now….?????

  120. rabb says:

    No it doesn’t castle hills. You now have to find Lord Fooks and call him an old fart on twitter.
    The geological survey must register his rage at 5 on the richter scale. You will then qualify as a “cybernat”

  121. muttley79 says:

    @Training Day
    Channel 4 tonight confirmed that we really are regarded by London as a backward tribe whose instinct to boil the civilised inhabitants south of Watford in a cauldron might be assuaged by the offer of a few shiny beads.
    Yes, unfortunately Channel 4 are as much a part of the British state and establishment as BBC, ITN, and ‘our own’ STV.  The strange thing is I get the distinct impression they don’t think much of us.  Scotland is a possession to them, nothing more, nothing less.  This is all about power.
    @Linda’s back 
    It is thanks to the likes of Iain Martin that the Scotsman has went completely down the plughole (although to be fair Andrew Neil, the Barclay brothers, and the JP have been the worse offenders there).  He seriously thinks that the SNP did not expect to win in 2011!  If he had said they did not think they would get a majority then that would have been much more reasonable.
    I almost choked when I read this editorial in the Guardian.  Try not to laugh:
    A year from today, Scotland will vote on independence. If the SNP campaign to cut Scotland loose fails, then the former Labour chancellor Alistair Darling will get much of the credit. Mr Darling, whose career trademark at Westminster often appeared to be as the prototype boring snoring minister, was chief secretary to the Treasury in the Labour government of 1997 and was still in cabinet 13 years later, having saved the banks and put a handbrake on the British economy’s slide after the 2008 crash. Yet, even at the peak of the economic crisis, this onetime Trot rarely troubled the headline writers. Now, as the leader of the Better Together campaign, the same sharp brain and quiet charm are welding the three main unionist parties into a pro-UK force to make the case for a no vote. His camp has a 20-point lead, but Mr Darling knows there’s no room for complacency. You may never have realised he’d gone away, but he’s certainly back.

  122. Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus says:

    Off topic, but can anyone here with ties to the SNP please explain why on earth Yes Scotland’s communications director has been selected as the SNP’s candidate for the Dunfermline by-election?

    This is a crucial time for the independence campaign. With just a year to go until the referendum we independence supporters would hope that all Yes Scotland employees, particularly the communications director, are spending all their working time concentrating on trying to convince the people of Scotland to vote yes.

    So why on earth has she been pulled away from such an important role within Yes Scotland in order to spend at least a month neglecting her Yes scotland job while she campaigns to get elected for the SNP in what, in relation to the referendum, is basically a meaningless by-election?

    We independence supporters, and Yes Scotland, deserve far better. Do the SNP really care more about winning a by-election that has come about due to their own negligence than about Yes Scotland’s communications director doing her job of convincing Scots to vote yes?

  123. muttley79 says:

    Are you going to the rally on Saturday? 

  124. Morag says:

    “we independence supporters”
    That’s a dead giveaway, sunshine.  You just can’t help yourself, can you?

  125. HandandShrimp says:

    A lot of stuff going on at the moment in the papers and TV. It is almost like the No campaign has gone into terminal spasm. Recycling old guff about the pound and mortgages, Severin spinning his stuff like a top and a bizarre homily to Alastair from the Guardian. I take it is all to “celebrate” one year to the vote?

  126. Nah he’s a Formula 1 fan going round and round and………….. 

  127. Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus says:

    No, not while Salmond is appearing – that negates any chance it has of impacting on the people we need to convince to vote yes if we’re going to win the referendum.

    I’ll spend my time talking to neighbours and friends about independence instead, and trying to convince them that they can still vote yes even if they don’t support the SNP, or even if they dislike the party.

  128. Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus says:

    “That’s a dead giveaway, sunshine.  You just can’t help yourself, can you?”

    What most certainly is a ‘giveaway’ in regard to the priorities the likes of you place on the SNP and independence respectively, is the fact that you don’t appear to care in the slightest that Yes Scotland’s communications director is being co-opted away from her crucial role at Yes Scotland in order to stand for the SNP in a meaningless by-election.

  129. muttley79 says:

    That is a shame.  Some people have doubted whether or not you are actually a supporter of independence.  If you put in an appearance on Saturday then that would have dispelled the doubts. 

  130. Morag says:

    And I’ll be running round suggesting to people that they ought to vote No to send out a signal that we don’t hate the English and will happily give them all our dosh forevermore.
    Yeah, right.

  131. HandandShrimp says:

    I understand that SNP are going to lend their spin doctor Kevin Pringle who will become the SNP and Yes campaign’s new strategic communications director. Kevin is by all accounts very, very good at his job. So do not fear. Ms Somerville is a good candidate with Holyrood experience to fight what will be a difficult by-election and Kevin is an excellent addition to the Yes team. 

  132. Morag says:

    And I now hereby swear that I will cease and desist from feeding the hairy thing lurking under the bridge, no matter how tempting.

  133. Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus says:

    “I understand that SNP are going to lend their spin doctor Kevin Pringle who will become the SNP and Yes campaign’s new strategic communications director”

    But that’s even worse! Yes Scotland needs to show that it is fully independent of the SNP and is not controlled or dominated by them – having the SNP’s spin doctor as its ‘strategic communications director’ isn’t going to help in that regard! 

    There should be NO links or ties between Yes Scotland and the SNP.

  134. Linda's back says:

    PCSA is a unionist troll who is never off the Scotsman forums

  135. Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus says:

    “Some people have doubted whether or not you are actually a supporter of independence.  If you put in an appearance on Saturday then that would have dispelled the doubts.”

    With all due respect, I don’t care in the slightest whether SNP fanatics like ‘morag’ doubt if I’m an independence supporter or not. 

    I know I am, and I know I’m doing everything I can to get independence – unlike the likes of ‘morag’ who don’t appear to give a stuff that Yes Scotland’s communications director is being co-opted by the SNP to stand in a meaningless by-election.

  136. Iain says:

    @The Rough Bounds
    “Incidentally, while you are at it, look up an etymological dictionary and check out the difference between ‘faith’ and ‘religion’.”
    Don’t need to.
    I have faith that the Scottish people will vote Yes. I don’t give a **** what religion they are.

  137. Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus says:

    “PCSA is a unionist troll who is never off the Scotsman forums”

    The rev has warned the likes of you from throwing around troll allegations.

    You will, of course, utterly fail to provide even one single solitary shred of evidence to back up that lying claim. 

    Its the likes of you who are destroying any chance we have of convincing non-SNP supporters to vote yes – you attack and abuse and call a ‘troll’ and a ‘unionist’ anyone who dares to even slightly criticise the party, regardless of the views they express on independence.

    You are an embarrassment to the independence cause.

  138. muttley79 says:

    But that’s even worse! Yes Scotland needs to show that it is fully independent of the SNP and is not controlled or dominated by them – having the SNP’s spin doctor as its ‘strategic communications director’ isn’t going to help in that regard! 
    There should be NO links or ties between Yes Scotland and the SNP.
    Seriously, it is pretty obvious you are no supporter of independence.  That you are  arguing that there should be no links between Yes Scotland and the SNP says it all. 

  139. Linda's back says:

    Kirst Wark astonished as undecideds come down 2 to 1 in favour of YES

  140. Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus says:

    “Seriously, it is pretty obvious you are no supporter of independence”

    Correction: its pretty obvious that I’m no supporter of the SNP.

    You need to learn the difference between ‘independence’ and the SNP, there is one. 

    “That you are  arguing that there should be no links between Yes Scotland and the SNP says it all”

    Yes Scotland is supposed to be a party politically neutral organisation that promotes independence to ALL Scots, regardless of the party they support. Its therefore blatantly obvious that having the SNP’s spin doctor as its communications director is counteracting that status. 

  141. Jingly Jangly says:

    o/t  yes 62% no 32% on Newsnicht poll of undecided after debate…..
    And that’s in the Borders, probably the hardest place to convince…

  142. MajorBloodnok says:

    PCSA – any views on Unionist parties’ involvement with Better Together?
    Just for balance you understand and after all, you are amongst friends here, considering that you are a self-confessed independence supporter (don’t worry, we won’t tell your other friends).

  143. Derick says:

    Who is this Saffron person?

  144. Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus says:

    “any views on Unionist parties’ involvement with Better Together?”

    I don’t care about ‘better together’, the more the unionist parties get involved with it and have infighting, and damage its status as a supposedly party politically neutral organisation the better as far as I’m concerned.

  145. Jingly Jangly says:

    Rough Bonds (!)
    you said this quote
    If there is a chink in this bloke’s armour that could bring him down it would be by getting him to admit publically that he doesn’t give a bugger about Scotland and the Scots, their Christian religion or their culture. But I suspect he isn’t dim enough to do that.
    Tell me where it says you didn’t bring religion into it, take your time

  146. MajorBloodnok says:


    (about half way through – compare and contrast).

  147. muttley79 says:

    Correction: its pretty obvious that I’m no supporter of the SNP.
    You need to learn the difference between ‘independence’ and the SNP, there is one. 
    “That you are  arguing that there should be no links between Yes Scotland and the SNP says it all”
    Yes Scotland is supposed to be a party politically neutral organisation that promotes independence to ALL Scots, regardless of the party they support. Its therefore blatantly obvious that having the SNP’s spin doctor as its communications director is counteracting that status.
    No, an independence supporter would not be so obsessed with criticising the SNP.  The SSP, Greens, Labour for Indy, and others do not agree with the SNP over a range of issues, but they are determined to get a Yes vote.   You on the other hand want to create discord and bad feeling.  That you are arguing that there should be no link between Yes Scotland and the SNP, which is the largest party that supports independence, is absolutely absurd, and does not bear the slightest scrutiny. 

  148. HandandShrimp says:

    But that’s even worse!
    How can it be worse? Somerville was an SNP MSP and party member. Pringle is a professional communications expert. Surely it must be better and he is awfully good at his job so he will do good things with the Yes communications.
    This is all good

  149. scottish_skier says:

    O/T, but UK polls show a continuing gap closure between Labour and the Tories. 10 point lead for Labour early 2013 now down to 4-5. Latest ‘gold standard’ ICM in agreement with the general trend showing just a 4 point gap.
    Tories could overtake them by the end of the year. Tory-led government or majority is the most likely outcome if Scotland stays in the union.

  150. scottish_skier says:

    I don’t care about ‘better together’, the more the unionist parties get involved with it and have infighting, and damage its status as a supposedly party politically neutral organisation the better as far as I’m concerned.
    Agreed. But with the Tories likely to overtake Labour in the UK polls soon, they may feel more confident and take a more controlling role over Better Together / the pro-union campaign. 
    I suppose this can only be very good for YesScotland.

  151. Kendomacaroonbar says:

    is the margin of error plus/minus 3 points ?

  152. The Man in the Jar says:

    Jeez is that arse back.
    I have heard that script before. Anyway much more fun on the “What we do” thread about that 68% Yes on Newsnight.

  153. McHaggis says:

    You do all realise PCSA is Norsewarrior?

  154. scottish_skier says:

    is the margin of error plus/minus 3 points ?
    The margin of precision is, not accuracy. But yes, in theory they could be actually equal. Anyway, the latest ICM just fits nicely with the overall trend of all UK polls. The Tories are slowly catching up with Labour, with the latter highly unlikely to win in 2015 based on current figures and past precedent. Ed’s ratings are terrible and getting worse.

  155. CameronB says:

    Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus
    I am not an SNP supporter as I can not accept a number of their policies. Despite this and the little effect it would have on the UK general election results, I have always voted for the SNP as they were always the best placed political force to achieve independence. Now we have Yes, which is an ad-hoc collective of disparate views, all seeking the same objective. Self determination for Scotland. How they go about organising themselves is something I imagine they are best placed to handle, assuming your are as ignorant of the minutia as I am.
    I am all for free speech, but I get the impression that you fail to grasp that it is something of a team game btw.

  156. velofello says:

    Heh Morag, you are a independence fanatic! Gee whiz. Och, I suppose I’m one too.
    To PCSA: The SNP are a party committed to Scottish independence. So too are other parties committed to independence. Why hide your light under a bushel?

  157. Morag says:

    You do all realise PCSA is Norsewarrior?
    Yes of course we do (well most of us I’m not so sure about Cameron).  The “we independence supporters” is his signature.  But shhhh, we’re not supposed to say so or Uncle Stu will send all of us to Quarantine.

  158. CameronB says:

    btw? Doh! btl

  159. rabb says:

    Pubis thingamybob doda
    I’m not an SNP man and I can exclusively reveal that I don’t give a flying fuck who they put up for an election or who Yes Scotland deem fit to employ as a replacement.
    We can discuss our differences over a jar before the march on Saturday. I’m buying, what are you having?
    BTW, that IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT an offer to buy you all a drink.
    Just so we’re clear on that 🙂

  160. CameronB says:

    I just like feeding folk rope from time to time. Anyway, this is a public forum and the Roman one has a much right as anyone to make an arse of him or her self.

  161. Morag says:

    OK, just so you know.

  162. Scottish_Snowboarder_;) says:

    “I am not an SNP supporter…………… I have always voted for the SNP”


  163. CameronB says:

    Is it not possible to vote for a party you do not support, as a least worst option? Particularly if it advances the one issue which you can support.
    P.S. Thanks for the insightful and inspiring critique.

  164. Cheezy Wheezy Puffs says:

    Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus is trolling.
    Nothing to see here.
    Move on.

  165. john king says:

    muttley says
    “Try not to laugh:”
    sorry muttley
    started with  a chortle and ended in gales of laughter I will still be guffawing at work,
     who wrote this?
     Alistair Darling? 🙂

  166. john king says:

    mchaggis says
    “You do all realise PCSA is Norsewarrior?”
    Naw? really? :0

  167. gillie says:

    Despite Kirsty Wark best (or worst) efforts there was a 2 to 1 of undecideds in favour of independence on last night’s Newsnight. Her face was a picture.

  168. A2 says:

    Is it not possible to vote for a party you do not support”

    Well No, if you vote for someone, you are supporting them, whatever your reasons for doing so are.

    PS… sorry for confusing change of moniker sticking with this now. 🙂

  169. C Griffiths says:

    Did Sarwar ever apologise for lying on TV?

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