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Upside-down times

Posted on June 10, 2020 by

I still don’t like JK Rowling, for reasons I set out earlier this week. I certainly never in a million years imagined I’d ever find myself in a position where I respected her 50 times more than I do Nicola Sturgeon.

And yet, here we are.

If the First Minister, or Shirley-Anne Somerville, or the monumentally imbecilic Kirsty Blackman, have the courage or the humanity to properly address that letter, I’ll buy everyone a new hat.

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    1. 10 06 20 18:56

      Upside-down times | speymouth

    771 to “Upside-down times”

    1. Andrew says:

      You might want to ask Wera, Layla and Ed the same question.

    2. Merkin Scot says:

      I want an Independent Scotland, not some kind of Wokiestan run by the current Sturgeon acolytes.

    3. Jill Sharpe says:

      What the SNP leadership is doing is triggering so many women with horrendous experiences – when we talk about harm that is what we mean it is not about potential predators – it is happening now.

    4. MWS says:

      I just posted much the same on twitter. Still haven’t forgiven her for her Indy Ref role but this is a powerful piece of writing. I’m with her 100% on this. And it’s actually about time somebody of her fame and stature put their head above the parapet on this. Do I think the SNP head honchos will take any notice? More fool them if they don’t. JK Rowling is articulating what the VAST majority of the Scottish population are thinking on this subject.

    5. Dan Watt says:

      Time to oust these woke shitters and take the party back ladies and gents. Get it back on track before it’s to late.

    6. Marion says:

      There goes my chance of a free hat !

    7. P says:

      Very unhappy with these people who have been trusted to drive through independence, not destroy lives. Apart from Joanna and a couple of others, I don’t think I trust any of them now.
      Modern, new, progressive, inclusive – all very fine words, but without authenticity they’re meaningless.
      Bought and sold, the lot of them

    8. Dave M says:

      Sturgeon is playing a very dangerous game

    9. Bob Costello says:

      The SNP is a wasteland at the moment. This gender recognition issue makes no sense unless it is seen in the context of a plan B in case this section 30 roadblock is for some reason unsuccessful in blocking a referendum., This could be Sturgeon’s last throw of the dice to stop the cause of independence

    10. Polly says:

      I admire very much how she has dealt with this issue. Though never a fan of her books, and not having cordial feelings for her for the money doled out to keep the union going, I did previously admire her staying and paying her taxes, ensuring British actors were mostly used in the films and her charitable work. Now though I admire her enormously as a human being. She spoke out in opposition to her fan base and given how involved with them she has always seemed that took guts and integrity. That she has stayed the course and not backtracked is even more remarkable.

      That so called feminist, so called whiter than white Nicola Sturgeon, she who slapped people down for minor infringements and set the standard for good behaviour has not a word to say about the online abuse Scotland’s most famous, or perhaps the worlds most famous author is suffering, show Sturgeon up as being a hollow shell of the person I first thought her. If I sound bitter it’s probably because I was one of the acolytes for the first couple of years. I saved one of the online photos when she was doing walkabout in green dress and jacket and a little girl ran to hug her in the middle of the crowd. It was a wonderful photo and I thought with pride we were still in good hands and wasn’t it wonderful to have a First Minister so inspiring and approachable. She can still seem inspiring in daily briefings and answering questions but she’s a bad leader, who has made wrong choices, who doesn’t like or won’t countenance opposing views, who seems to have surrounded herself with yes people and who doesn’t stand by her supposed convictions. Perhaps the unionists were right and she has no real convictions, even the book reading put on for effect, just like the calling out abuse, it’s selectively done. I cannot say how disappointed I am now.

    11. Sinky says:

      O/T but more importantly watch first 13 minutes of Channel Four News. get it on plus one as this destroys UK government’s approach to tackling Covid. Particularly listen to Edinburgh Prof Devi Sridhar

    12. Paul Garbett says:

      I am as depressed as many about how things are turning out with the SNP, the Independence campaign and everything else BUT even though I loathe almost everything that JKR represents I am proud to admit that we agree about this. No fundraisers require here for a woman with clear views (don’t agree with most but hey – this is very important)
      Bit of a nod to Stu too – it can’t have been an easy thing for him to agree with & support JKR

    13. Astonished says:

      This is coming to a head.

      I do not think those on the side against women are going to win. And I think they know it.

      As I said on a previous thread – the final chance is on the first of July.

    14. Mist001 says:

      Now do people see why I refer to that women as ‘Mrs. Murrell’? She doesn’t deserve the respect of being called by her preferred title.

      I might as well come out and say it, I believe the very top of the Scottish government is being run by a gay cabal and that’s where all these ideas are coming from. Scottish politics is rife with gay characters. Just a matter of two or three years ago, every political party was led by a gay man or woman.

      Kezia Dugdale (Labour) was even shacked up with Jenny Gilruth (SNP). Nobody will convince me otherwise that there wasn’t any cross communication between the higher echelons of Labour and the higher echelons of the SNP.

      If being gay was an illness or a disease, Scottish politics would be regarded as having a ‘cluster’.

      That’s how all these ‘radical’ ideas are originating.

      I don’t find gay people offensive. What I find offensive is the insidious use of nepotism within Scottish politics and using that to force through extremely marginal policies that the average person in the street would balk at if they knew what was going on.

    15. CameronB Brodie says:

      The proposed reforms of the GRA tells me the Scottish government don’t have a clue about the significance of possessing a legally defensible identity. Nor do they appear to understand diversity, equality, or human rights. So they are unlikely to liberate Scotland from British constitutionalism.

      Time for some radical philosophy and a critique of Judith Butler’s legacy?

      Contingent ontologies
      Sex, gender and ‘woman’ in Simone de Beauvoir and Judith Butler

    16. Jim says:

      I have never had a strong opinion for or against JK Rowling even with her opposition to independence. Her childrens books were not my thing,but I have enjoyed her other books.
      This is by far one of the best and indepth articles I have read on this subject, so thankyou for all the research on our behalf

    17. One of the few from the light entertainment industry to support JK,

      Neil Oliver (twitter)
      · 7 Jun

      `Have never actually met JK Rowling but hers always seems like a calm and kindly voice. Her books and films have brought my children no end of pleasure. Happy to stand alongside her.`

    18. Ian Foulds says:

      To all above – hear, hear.

    19. stonefaction says:

      If we, and the SNP, don’t get independence sorted out soon, then the GRA stuff will likely simply be rendered meaningless by a further power-grab to incapacitate Holyrood by the Tories, possibly to the extent even of closing it down. As they appear to be the only party not buying into the GRA stuff, it is surely no big deal for them to wipe out any further movement on that issue whenever they choose to. They won’t lose any votes by doing so. Without any likelihood of independence (if Holyrood is closed down) it could even potentially gain them some.

      Independence needs to be the over-riding priority for the SNP, the trans-group AND the rest of us, otherwise NONE of us gains any benefit, and without independence we ALL surely lose. Without independence it would be a short-lived and rather hollow victory for the trans-group should the GRA thing go through anytime soon.

      Independence needs to come first – then we can decide what Scotland should look like and we can all choose if we want to vote for a party that believes women are adult female humans, or one that believes the definition of woman espoused by the trans-group. Time is running out fast, with a no-deal Brexit looming large on the horizon and the Tories free to do whatever they wish outside of the EU’s influence afterwards.

    20. MikeW says:

      Mist001 this is not, in general,a gay people issue. Gay women are not seeking to use male changing rooms, most gay men are not looking to use female changing rooms, tough possibly some that have been taken in by the trans lobby might be. This is almost totally “transwomen”, though I use that term loosely, looking to get access to female only places.

    21. defo says:

      Good essay about her experiences.
      As she notes, this carry on is above party politics.
      If only she could leave the constitutional dark side, we’d rocket ahead, to 53% Yes.

    22. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “You might want to ask Wera, Layla and Ed the same question.”

      In the case of Wera I’ve asked her directly to her face. Her answer was extremely unsatisfactory and she lost my 2019 vote as a result.

    23. mogabee says:

      JKR stood up for other women and for that I support her.

      Ms Cherry commented on the piece unlike many of our parliamentarians. I’ve decided to block most of them as they have no words that I wish to hear anymore.

    24. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I might as well come out and say it, I believe the very top of the Scottish government is being run by a gay cabal and that’s where all these ideas are coming from.”

      I think that’s highly unhelpful. Wokery is as rife among heterosexuals as it is among gay folk.

    25. Allium says:

      Yes, Joanna Cherry is to be commended on this – I remember seeing her defending JKR from that Jordon wokie a while back – she recognises something nasty is happening that’s above and beyond party politics.

    26. susan says:

      Glad to see commonsense breaking out in the gender ideology morass. Maybe a high profile author will bring this to the wider public. And thank you Stu for your blunt, no nonsense take on the issue.

    27. Alex Montrose says:

      Vote SNP 1, Green 2 at next years Holyrood Election to decimate the Unionist list MSPs, take our country forward towards Independence, and make our Country all it can be.

      JKR is a vehement Unionist, don’t be swayed by any of her bs.

    28. Mist001 says:

      @ MikeW

      I know it’s not a gay people issue. Look at the past history of a group like Stonewall for example. There’s no doubting that they did a lot of good work on behalf of gay people but they also came out with a lot of downright extreme ideas which nobody would tolerate.

      These ideas do get discussed obviously amongst the gay community foremost and they get accepted or not. The danger as I believe we’re seeing right now, is when extremists have the ear of people in positions of power with the ability to actually implement these ideas.

      That’s what I think is happening here. Mrs. Murrell is a part of a gay cabal at the top of Scottish politics and these extreme ideas are being discussed by likeminded people and are being quietly introduced and implemented because they’re certainly not shouting from the rooftops about them.

    29. ahundredthidiot says:

      Thank You JKR – that takes courage, well done.

      Wokism is a state of mind (a bad one) and nothing to do with sexual preference, politics or otherwise, it’s almost like a mental illness.

      Worse are those poor, pathetic slaves pandering to them, too stupid to realise that there is no bargaining with them.

    30. CameronB Brodie says:

      Alex Montrose
      If you vote for the Greens, you are voting to support the legal institutionalisation of misogyny. Is your desire for indy that strong, or are you simply a sexist?

    31. We need an AntiGRAsp party pronto.

    32. robert graham says:

      As far as I know the people ” Women and Girls ” who will be on the receiving end of this totally brainless piece of legislation making its way through Holyrood are almost totally unaware of what is being done , a figure of around 80% has been mentioned if so that’s disgracfull and a emergency stop needs to be made right now , not just continued under the radar and out of sight , the current leadership of the SNP will pay a swift and decisive backlash from the membership if they don’t do as members want them to , they have been warned , whether they choose listen is up to them .

      Oh dear I am listening to FMQs and a Tory Jamie Green asking , straight faced about the number of ethnic community teaching staff presently employed and what steps are being taken to increase their numbers , oh fk you couldn’t make this shit up , and Nicola Sturgeon actually took it seriously oh Christ if it was me answering the question I would say ARE YOU TAKING THE PISH yah Tory arse wipe, then Ken would take out the red card and bob would walk.

    33. Jill Sharpe says:

      The woke gender identity theory is inherently anti-gay and lesbian – please none of that anti-gay sentiment – most gay people are against this insanity.

    34. Stoker says:

      I detest Jakey Howlin with every fibre of my being but i too am with her on this one.

      Her letter throws up a strange one for me though. She states in it “…i believe my government is playing fast and loose with womens and girls’ safety.”

      “ government..”?

      Thought she moved back to England? London?

    35. SilverDarling says:

      Fair play to her – on this we agree.

      She has done her research and her opinion is based on reading and trying to understand the science and the experience of those who are Trans.

      Like many of us, she has no problem with people who are Trans but has a problem with the way the rest us have to buy into a collective belief system that denies our objective reality in order to accommodate a small subsection of Trans activists.

    36. A Person says:

      Polly- I was disturbed when Sturgeon recently said “during the pandemic I’ve come to see for the first time that people that don’t agree with me might have good intentions”. She’s fifty years old and she’s never seen that before. That really unnerved me and it plays right into the hands of the Daily Mail “Scottish nationalism is a cult” mob.

      Mike- the transgender issue has nothing to do with gay people. In fact, if you accept that sex is whatever you want it to be, then same-sex attraction can’t exist. This has manifested itself in males saying that they’re women and then going on dates with gay women. When those gay women don’t want to sleep with these men, they are then accused of “transphobia”. The logical end point of the GRA is academics and politicians applauding rape of “intolerant” gay women – that’s why many describe the GRA as misogynistic. Indeed, quell surprise, the gay people I know are against the GRA while it’s most vocal defenders are straight men.

    37. After reading the full essay you wonder how the f@ck she could say this about the relationship between Scotland and England,

      `My guess is that if we vote to stay, we will be in the heady position of the spouse who looked like walking out, but decided to give things one last go`

      you would have thought she would say,

      ` the door to the cage has been left open this could be your last chance to leave this f@cked up relationship so get the f@ck out now ,don`t look back,before the cage slams shut again`.

    38. Jill Sharpe says:

      Do not read too much into it Stoker I’m sure it’s to do with her strong support for devolution.

    39. Clwyd Griffiths says:

      Stu, here you go again. I wish you would stop talking about this minor matter, it’s a minority issue, focus on more important matters.

    40. Jill Sharpe says:

      Women being erased from society is a minor matter Clywd?

    41. @Clwyd Griffiths says:
      10 June, 2020 at 8:11 pm

      Stu, here you go again. I wish you would stop talking about this minor matter, it’s a minority issue, focus on more important matters.

      Pray describe how this is a minority issue when it affects 50.4% of the population?

    42. Beaker says:

      Excellent article. You know how the opponents of the SNP are going to tackle this one: bring out a particular MP’s lovely friend that was taken to a primary school.

      Being a cynical bastard, I’m wondering if a certain someone knows her days are numbered, and has decided to used a political scorched earth policy. To hell with Scotland, after all, a nice UN or ambassadorship will be lined up. (If McConnell can get one, anyone can). If that fails there is always the guaranteed book deal.

      We have adequate laws to protect gender identity, sexual orientation, race, religious belief or none. Education is the best method, not stupid, ill-thought legislation guaranteed to piss almost everyone off.

      Meanwhile on COVID-19, Private Eye has alleged that the UK Govt has a strange way of counting tests. If you get the test where your nose and throat are swabbed AT THE SAME TIME, it’s counted twice. Go figure.

    43. Republicofscotland says:

      We often refer to the Westminster bubble, citing that the politicians and government of the day are way out of touch with the reality on the streets and the people.

      Now North of the border we must now look upon Holyrood and it’s politicians as being trapped in such a bubble. The heirarchy of the SNP and it’s wokeist arm are oblivious and just don’t care what the people think of its pushing of this self identifying agenda, that’s ultimately taken precedence over women’s rights and independence.

      It’s ironic that Sturgeon is all for pushing and strengthening women’s rights, yet this self identifying policy could lead to women’s rights becoming diminished, and see women’s safe spaces compromised in the process. It should come as no great surprise that SNP membership is falling, and I’d wager women are leaving the party more than men are due the outrageous self-ID policy and who could blame them for doing so.

      The SNP have been compromised, and independence has been set aside and replaced by new agendas that we did not vote for.

    44. Athanasius says:

      Merkin Scot,

      Don’t worry about ending up in Wokestan. These people are poisoning the SNP, so you won’t even get that. It’s over, at least for this generation.

    45. CameronB Brodie says:

      This issue doesn’t just hurt women. These proposals would undo the legal advances gained by second-wave feminists, and strengthens cultural patriarchy. Patriarchy hurts the poor, both male and female, and destroys the planet.

    46. Dan says:

      Alex Montrose says: at 7:51 pm

      Vote SNP 1, Green 2 at next years Holyrood Election to decimate the Unionist list MSPs, take our country forward towards Independence, and make our Country all it can be.

      But hud oan a moment. We already have previously voted the SNP and Greens into positions of having a supposedly Pro-Indy majority in the Scottish Government Administration in Holyrood.
      But rather than them focusing on taking our country forward towards regaining our independence they have distracted themselves with pushing on with rather contentious and divisive matters instead.
      I find it bizarre that any political party would attempt to implement policies that the majority of the electorate do not agree with.

      If there isn’t a specific manifesto pledge with a little more bite in it than “gold standard sec. 30 jam tomorrow” then why elect them again to ignore the main reason we vote for them and push policies we don’t want.
      If they aren’t going to return us to being an independent country but will be implementing shit laws, then hard as it is to say, we’d be better off with the status quo.

    47. Jill Sharpe says:

      Yes Cameron B – you understand this.

    48. Stoker says:

      @ Jill Sharpe on 10 June, 2020 at 8:07 pm

      Yeah, you’re probably correct.

      Beaker wrote: ” I’m wondering if a certain someone knows her days are numbered, and has decided to use a political scorched earth policy. To hell with Scotland, after all, a nice UN or ambassadorship will be lined up. (If McConnell can get one, anyone can). If that fails there is always the guaranteed book deal.”

      My feelings *exactly*. I cannot get this sort of thinking out of my head recently simply because i feel very strongly this is the case. She knows she’s fucked-up and the tide is now exposing her for what she truly is, a pathetic spineless con merchant as much a self-server as any Britnat.

      And i’ll tell you this for nothing, if she has taken such an approach to this then i believe she’s going to have to move away to some hidden corner of the globe because the backlash from irate indy supporters will not miss her and hit the wall. She’ll have made Mo Johnson appear to be the most loyal footballer on planet earth.

      Sincerest apologies for the footballing reference to those of you who don’t follow football.

    49. Jill Sharpe says:

      Dan – there is no status quo.

    50. Baxter1967 says:

      This is an eminently sensible article from JKR and would urge all SNP MSP’s to read it. Unfortunately even if they agree with it ,with a few exceptions , they don’t have the bottle to shout out that the Emperor has no clothes. I understood this lunatic legislation was to be binned. If it resurfaces then I will create absolute hell in the SNP although to be fair most ordinary SNP members are against it. If Sturgeon wants to pick this battle with the Scottish people then it’s one she’s set to lose.

    51. robertknight says:

      Aye, we’re well and truly through the looking glass here people. Male is female, and female is male. Why? Because someone, anyone, simply says so. The world’s gone barking mad! Abso-f***ing-lutely barking mad!

    52. CameronB Brodie says:

      The GRA relates to the legal recognition of assumed gender. It has absolutely nothing to do with biological sex. That points alarmingly to a reliance on shoddy legal practice, in order to get the proposed reforms in to legislature. That should tell you how crap the law would be, and how much bending of the law is going on.

      Social Cognition through the Lens of Cognitive and Clinical Neuroscience

    53. CameronB Brodie says:

      Jill Sharpe
      I like to think so. 😉


    54. Bob Mack says:

      I never thought I would see the day I would agree with anything written by JK, but there you go.

      She speaks for me, but she shouts for my missus, and daughters and grandaughters. Fortune turns on the head of a pin right enough.

    55. Dan says:

      Jill Sharpe says: at 8:30 pm

      Dan – there is no status quo.

      Aye, they’ve never really been same since Rick Parfitt passed. 🙁
      But I still think there’s a good chance the quo might make a better hash of things than what we currently have. 🙂

    56. J Galt says:


      As a gay man and as an SNP member I can tell you I’m rapidly coming to hold most of the heid yins in the SNP in contempt, gay or otherwise – the latest idiocy was that buffoon Mike Russell encouraging punch-ups in the supermarket aisles!

      As Bugs Bunny would have said – “what a Maroon!”

    57. ScotsRenewables says:

      Excuse me for being a bit thick, but where exactly did JK Rowling get this info that the GRA reform is definitely going ahead?

      On 1 April 2020, The Minister for Parliamentary Business, Graeme Dey MSP, announced the Scottish Government’s plans for managing its legislative programme in light of the impacts of COVID19.

      He advised that, as an unavoidable consequence of the need to focus resource on dealing with the current pandemic, protecting lives and supporting the NHS, work within government was being halted for now on the reform of the Gender Recognition Act, along with other planned bills

      Seems it is all on hold until post-pandemic, at which point the consultation responses will be analysed prior to the new bill or any form of it going ahead

      SO why the screaming panic and negativity now?

    58. Allium says:


      From what I understand it seems to be an open secret amongst the Wokerati of Scotland that SAS has reassured them that the Bill will be reignited as a priority ASAP post-Covid. Apparently the Under 16 transition stuff will be dropped from the Bill so they can give lip service to saying they’ve listened to the consultation, but apart from that its full steam ahead.

      With Rowling’s connections in politics and journalism, I would think she would know all the rumours, and the likelihood or not of their being true.

    59. Robert Louis says:

      Well, as many may recall from indyref1, I am no fan of JK Rowling. However, she is to be commended for this. Not only is she prepared to speak out, but importantly, she has chosen to EDUCATE herself on this. Too, too many in very powerful positions who share her fears, are too cowardly to speak out.

      Too, too many folk spout nonsense on this topic, without knowing the issues involved.

      This fundamentally affects not only women, but gay and lesbians too. That is, homosexuals. The abuse that lesbians, in particular, have been subjected to by the cultists WITHIN the SNP, is disgraceful. That alone, should have alarm bells ringing in the head of ANY competent First Minister.

      Hence the start of the NEW gay rights movement via the LGB alliance.

      But, more than all of that, I simply cannot fathom, on any level, why the Scottish Government are soooo determined to push on with a piece of legislation for which their is no great demand, and no need. The damage it does to not only women’s rights, but also gay rights. is immense.

      Either NS really does want to destroy the SNP (and indy movement), or she is woefully, woefully out of touch with reality, and is being exceptionally badly advised. This is not a trivial matter. It will not go away, and it WILL utterly destroy ANY poll lead the SNP think they have at the next election. Just watch and wait, it will be the unionists trump card – that is why they are all so quiet on the subject right now. They are just waiting for it to be done, and then they will attack.

      The SNP pursuing this is absolute folly.

      It is very easy, to have the knee-jerk reaction to all of this, to assume that those opposing the GRA are just ‘bigots’, or worse, that this is just a ‘trivial’ matter. That is what I thought when I first heard about this whole issue. It was not until I started reading up on who, what and HOW this pernicious extreme ‘trans’ ideology is being aggressively pushed, that I realised just how twisted it was. It is quite literally f***ing with the minds of children and young adults. Those responsible should be in jail, not have legislation enacted to further enable them.

      This will damage womens rights and those of gay lesbian and bisexual people. People really, really need to educate themselves on this subject. It is NOT a trivial matter.

    60. defo says:

      NS to the fore on this iconoclastic rewriting of history fad.
      Virtue signalling to the plebs.
      Quell surprise.

    61. Big Jock says:

      Off topic. Turn on the nine. Andrew Wilson has a union Jack cushion on his couch!!

    62. Big Jock says:

      Said this before. We need to take the SNP back from the nutters with micro agendas. Let them go to the Greens.

      The party of independence cannot succeed if it becomes a party for niche loonies.

      We need a party for the majority.

    63. Muscleguy says:

      Dinnae bother wi a bunnet for me Rev. I have an excess, an embarrassment of riches.

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      This is what the SNP appears to oppose, along with members of Scotland’s judiciary. Is the SNP’s membership going to allow this to continue? Are we happy we have clown-shoes judges dispensing ‘justice’?


    65. Muscleguy says:

      When the weather was a might warmer I wore my Aussie Akubra to the local shops to keep the sun off. Finding it a bit hot i then donned a natty Italian* straw number for a longer walk to other shops.

      *Bought off a stall in the main square in Verona.

    66. Jill Sharpe says:

      Is it possible to define the word woman as other than an adult human female or man as an adult human male?

    67. I strongly urge Anyone who hasnt see the video of John Sweeny trying to “Defend” — live on stage – the party’s stance on children’s education to go look at it all. It may last 15 20 .minutes but It’s an eye opener!
      To be fair, I can’t believe any decent people who voted for the SNP would agree to this.
      Remember, this is children they’re using this language to.

    68. McDuff says:

      Rowling is quite right of course , women`s security and rights are at risk from this madness.
      But with her vast fortune and millions of world wide followers I would have thought she could have mustered an effective opposition to this.
      She certainly found a million to support the no campaign.

    69. CameronB Brodie says:

      The Scottish civil service had been following best-practice in policy design, until they were instructed not to, so as to advice these proposals. The rights of trans-women are already protected under the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, so these proposals would appear unnecessary, to say the least.

      What is the difference between sex and gender?
      Exploring the difference between sex and gender, looking at concepts that are important to the Sustainable Development Goals.

    70. Big Jock says:

      McDuff good point. Pretty sure Rowling could buy her way into the party!?

    71. CameronB Brodie says:

      This describes the inclusion of trans-women into the legal scope of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women.

      Designing Women: The Definition of “Woman” in the
      Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of
      Discrimination Against Women

    72. Alex Montrose says:

      Dan 8:25

      No Dan we didn’t vote for the SNP an Green, at the last Holyrood GE,
      The SNP won 4 list seats for 1million votes,
      The ConLabs won 45 list seats for 1million votes,
      The Greens won 6 list seats for 150,000 votes,

      To decimate the Unionist list MSPs, vote SNP 1 – Green 2 at next years Holyrood GE.

    73. CameronB Brodie says:

      Vote Green and you’re supporting the introduction of gender-ideology into Scots law. Gender-ideology requires the denial of the natural sciences and Natural Law. So if you support the introduction of gender-ideology into Scots law, you are not supporting social justice, you are promoting totalitarianism.

      Why and how constitutions matter for advancing gender equality: Gains, gaps and policy implications

    74. Armitage Shanks says:

      CameronB Brodie where do you stand on the EU, you wish to remain, rejoin ? all EU sex discrimination law applies to transgender people I cant see how in some distant Independent future Scotland not enforcing EU directives and law on this subject. Perhaps we should just agree that sometimes 2+2=5. Granted at the moment it hardly seems worth thinking about.

    75. Ruglonian says:

      Wonder when Sturgeon will comment on this personal statement that JK Rowling has made?

      She has her @ScotGovFM account for work stuff, obv, but her @NicolaSturgeon one for personal, and we know how she likes a good tweet!
      Given that JK is Scottish, female, the most famous author in the world and has taken an appalling amount of unnecessary abuse for her strong political feminist stance, I expect to see her FM support her at the earliest opportunity!

    76. dakk says:

      Good luck with the british Conservative and unionist party then.

      Meanwhile independent Norway and Ireland who have adopted gender self id go from strength to strength.

      Including their women.

    77. CameronB Brodie says:

      Armitage Shanks
      I’m afraid I’m a bit too rusty to be able to just lay it all out for you, but this should keep you rights. 😉

      EU Gender Equality Law

      1. Introduction
      The purpose of the present publication is to provide a general overview of gender equality law at the EU level. The publication is aimed at a broad – but not necessarily legal – public and explains the most important issues of the EU gender equality acquis.The term ‘EU gender equality acquis’ refers to all the relevant Treaty provisions, legislation and the case law of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in relation to gender equality.

      Another often-used term, instead of gender equality, is ‘sex equality’. Both terms are used in the present publication, more or less interchangeably. However, it should be noted that while the term ‘sex’ refers primarily to the biological condition and therefore also the difference between women and men, the term ‘gender’ is broader in that it also comprises social differences between women and men, such as certain ideas about their respective roles within the family and in society….

    78. dakk says:

      That said, I still get feeling it’s upside down.

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      I have no objection to trans-women being given the same legal protections as biological women, but that’s as far as it goes.

      Evaluation of Norway’s support to women’s rights
      and gender equality in development cooperation

    80. Morgatron says:

      I for one are not proud of JK Rowling I admire her stance and wish the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon would listen and follow suit to reasonable argument. Unlike Rowling when it came to the independence argument and if my memory serves me correctly she hasn’t apologised yet to the 6 million residents of Scotland for her defense of the union.

    81. CameronB Brodie says:

      This might prove instructive. 😉

      International Journal of Constitutional Law, Volume 18, Issue 1, January 2020, Pages 233–259
      Women and participatory constitutionalism

    82. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Armitage Shanks

      If you think that sometimes we should accept that 2+2=5 then realise why we fitted you with a handle so we could give you a good flush.

    83. dakk says:

      Bear in mind Ireland and Norway are Scotland’s nearest neighbours(bar England).

      Looks increasingly like this site is promoting tieing Scotland to bitish conservatism.

      Not that I’m keen on gender self id mind you.

    84. Confused says:

      To really understand the so-called left, this duplicitous attack on the people, this fakery – you need to see identity politics as one coherent entity, with the various “-isms” merely appendages; the beating heart of the beast is “sexual liberation”, the latest, current frontline of which is “tranny-ism”.

      The problem with a lot of, e.g. women, gays, lesbians out there is that they were all in favour of the sexual liberation juggernaut when it benefited them, but now it doesn’t and they want it to stop – “this far and no more” ,,, sorry, toots, big problemo honey-bun – its a fucking juggernaut, and once its rolling, you cannot stop it. By the way, it was never yours to control, it is a golem of the oligarchs, fed by big money.

      There is a strong comic element to see the monster eat its own, but, when you know the history, you have to laugh; e.g. it was radical feminists who started to deny biology some 25 years ago – now see where it’s got them; the end of female sport and the sort of beatings, from actual men, no (western) woman had really experienced for a generation.

      – but this needs a 5000 word essay and I can’t be arsed, esp. as the good guy/wank ratio BTL is cripplingly low. Maybe Mr Brodie will post a reference to what I’m talking about.

      Nice to see the REV back.

    85. John D says:

      Let me get this right.
      The two pro independence political parties in Scotland have in recent years , as independence is in touching distance , decided to prioritise a GRA policy against the wishes of most members that is both mysoginistic and homophobic .
      The normally rabidly anti SNP MSM are seemingly oblivious to and remain silent to the ructions and concern this policy is inciting throughout the gay and women’s rights movement and also the independence movement !
      A heroine is seemingly presenting herself in the form of a single strong woman . Who happens to be a billionaire ultra Unionist and global ambassador for UK boarding schools.
      Plots got potential

    86. cynicalHighlander says:


      When did Women, Gays and Lesbians deny the science of sex? Missed that one.

    87. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT but somehow ironic.

      Multiculturalism, freedom of religion, equality, and the British constitution: The JFS case considered

    88. John Thomson says:

      Just one of the reasons we need a wings party at HR 2021

    89. Doug Buchannan says:

      The unionist trolls must be laughing their heads off at the open goal this site gives them.

      The ground work for independence is being laid as we speak by Scotland proving it can manage its affairs better than London.

      But what do have here, idiots & others of questionable motivations promoting disunity over an issue of complete irrelevance to 99% of Scots. No one gives a monkeys about gender, that boat sailed long ago.

      “I’m not voting SNP because Stu says not to, because of this gender thing!”


      If you don’t believe me, look at the comments above, then look at comments from 3, 4 or 6 years ago on here, if you can’t see the difference, you are blind! I’d bet also the visits have gone down drastically, they used to be displayed proudly, not now.

      P.S. Alex Salmond, much vaunted on here, would not touch any of the above comments or people making them with a barge pole.

    90. terence callachan says:

      More respect for JKR than NS ? Really ? Are you sure about that ?

      All based on an opinion that gender recognition law changes will be worse than the law as it is at present and because you think there will not be a Scottish independence referendum within the next few years.

      I think your opinions are wrong

      Why ? Because I trust the many many experts who will have examined the changes proposed to gender recognition law before it is passed

      And because I trust Nicola Sturgeon to give us a Scottish independence referendum soon after this covid19 crisis is over

      Why do I trust in these ?

      Because in both instances they are experts

      All the years of SNP govt have brought about improvements over what we had when Labour controlled Scotland
      Scotland is a better place to live under SNP government than it was under Labour

      GRE like other controversial aspects of law will be long forgotten in a year or two

      Laws that put men and women in prison for being gay were touted as necessary just a few decades ago and when they were challenged and confined to the dustbin there was similar outrage from people worried that we would all be at risk.

      It was said that we would all be sexually assaulted by people of the same sex as we are
      It was said that gay people would talk to us openly about their sexuality and convert all our young people to being gay
      It was said that women’s safe places would be invaded by gay women who would convert them to lesbians
      It was said that men’s safe places would be invaded by gay men who would convert them too

      Oh yes it’s all been said before

      And what is striking is that back then the people causing alarm just like now with GRE, had no expertise in what they saying

      I don’t want laws that are worse or put people at risk nobody does the government doesn’t either
      The government isn’t changing the law for votes either the number of people affected will be small

      It’s being done as an improvement to current law
      I believe it will be

    91. terence callachan says:

      Well said Doug Buchanan

    92. Joe says:


      Well said. Everything. Bravo

    93. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m wary of being too specific and prescriptive, but things started going a bit strange with post-structuralism, and the “descriptive turn” in the social sciences. Not that I’m against challenging ‘established’ knowledge, but epistemic integrity is vital to keeping things real. Humans are characteristically male or female, and it is not possible to change sex. This may appear a stuffy, heteronormative, perspective, but I appreciate the importance of legally respecting the human genome.

      What is gender? Feminist theory and the sociology of human reproduction

      Feminist theory and research on the sociology of human reproduction have historically been bound together as each has developed. Yet recently sociologists of reproduction and ‘women’s health’ have lost sight of core debates in feminist theory. They still tend to work with the assumption that feminism is an internally coherent body of thought, despite the emergence of significant internal divisions since the mid-1980s.

      In this paper we evaluate the challenge that feminist post-structuralism poses to prior conceptualisations of gender in the context of reproductive health through a critique of sociological work in this area from the 1970s and 1980s. We conclude with a critical exploration of the new insights that might emerge from a post-structuralist ‘deconstruction’ of gender in the context of human reproduction.

      And a bit of IR theory.

      Postructuralism and Feminism: The Interplay between Gender, Language and Power

    94. dakk says:

      Then again, maybe it’s unionist Nicola Sturgeon who is promoting this bad GRA in order to tie Scotland to britin.

      What fucking chance have you got?

    95. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Why hasn’t the Care Home licence been removed from the operators of establishment in Skye where ten innocent souls thus far have lost their lives? There’s absolutely no way this company ought to still be in business, never mind being given two weeks in which to get their house-in-order. What have you got to do before the Scottish government accepts the fact that your a failed enterprise and a danger to the elderly community?

    96. dakk says:

      Will tell you’se tomorrow which it is.

    97. Beaker says:

      @John D says:
      10 June, 2020 at 11:51 pm
      “The normally rabidly anti SNP MSM are seemingly oblivious to and remain silent.”

      The MSM are shit scared at the moment of offending anyone, in case it gives an excuse to start another fucking riot.

      Twitter on the other hand has gone nuclear as usual. One delightful young lady has even threatened JKR to a square go. Would have been nice if she learns to speak in words that have more than one syllable.

    98. terence callachan says:

      So let me see…..J K Rowling says she is against the gender recognition law changes

      and all of a sudden

      some people on here who previously hated her because of what she said about Scotland and Scottish independence and because she gave a million pounds to help England keep control of Scotland and stop Scottish independence in 2014 …..

      Now like her

      And like her more than Nicola Sturgeon

      Because they have the opinion and it is without doubt ONLY AN OPINION
      that there will not be a Scottish independence referendum anytime soon

      Get you feet back on the ground

    99. Ruglonian says:

      Doug @12.13am
      “because Stu says not to” – behave yourself!
      He’s never said that!
      We can all read here! 😀

      Terence @12.13am
      “will be long forgotten in a year or two” – I really don’t think that you have a grip on the strength of feeling around this subject!!

    100. terence callachan says:

      Josef O Luainn….because there is a court case ongoing

    101. Dan says:

      Alex Montrose at 10:27 pm

      Please don’t include me in your “we” as I used my Both Votes SNP pen to mark the ballot paper SNP constituency and Green regional list because I understood the voting system.
      Having spent years as an activist and campaigning and building networks and trust with a lot of folk I’m really going to struggle to knock doors in the future and try and defend the woo woo policies both those parties are now pushing.

      I probably live a more environmentally conscious and sympathetic life than a huge majority of “Green” voters. I’ve spent hundreds of hours over the years cleaning up legacy and new pollution and fly tipping around large areas of my community and also the beaches I visit.
      Also trying to hold to account big corporates like BT / Open Reach and their contractors to clean up their fuckin mess and trade waste they dumped along the road side bankings and ditches whilst they were installing the fibre network in my area.
      Had to do that as the Council permit to work system seemingly allows these companies to effectively self certify so there is no external audit checking to see they leave a site in an acceptable state once they complete their work.
      I’ve still got an email trail saved which is around a metre long which included the head of the Broadband Rollout Project in Scotland telling others CCed in to sort this situation out, and they still did nothing. Saved a load of pics and video of mess they left before I had to clean it up because after a year I got the idea they weren’t ever going to get round to it…
      Local Councillors always complain they can’t do this or that because of lack of funds, so I handed them all this info so they could instigate a corporate flytipping fine to pull in some much needed revenue but they couldn’t be arsed either.
      I understand Broadband is reserved to Westminster but the Scottish Government have put in extra funding to speed the process up. I’d prefer if Scottish Taxpayers money wasn’t being given to companies that fail to follow proper health and safety and environmental regulations, and feel it is ok to make our Bonnie Scotland look like a landfill site. Didn’t get a response from SNP when I brought this to their attention.

      So with the above I’m already holding my nose to vote for any of these fuckers as it is.

      Regardless of how the voting system created a Pro-Indy majority in Holyrood last time round, the bottom line that you fail to acknowledge is that they have done very little in progressing Indy whilst quite a lot to potentially jeopardise the Indy cause because the policies they have focused on.
      I’m only still a member of the SNP because someone else paid my membership for data protection rules so I could spend 5 weeks campaigning for the last GE sometimes in minus 10 temps. That was to “Stop Brexit” which as we found out on Jan 31st was a bag o’ shite. But not to worry eh, I lose my EU Citizenship but some MP can rake in 70k for another 5 years…
      So you suggest I should give my first vote to the SNP who’ve let me down in nearly every way possible, and my second to a party that tries to be as Green as me but won’t let me be a member of their Party.

      Soz for rant but BT say it’s good to talk. 🙂

    102. terence callachan says:

      Ruglonian…the strength of feeling around here will not stop changes to legislation and will not be here in a year or two either

    103. CameronB Brodie says:

      terence callachan
      You don’t appear to have a clue but you appear happy to risk endangering women and children.

      Challenges and opportunities of gender equality litigation in Nepal

      The constitutionalization of an enforceable right to equality opens novel avenues to pursue gender equality claims and presents a new set of challenges for feminist activists. This article analyzes Nepal’s constitutional litigation for alleged breaches of the right to equality with respect to gender from the re-democratization of 1990 until the promulgation of the current constitution in September 2015.

      It makes one central argument: Nepal’s Supreme Court has played a pivotal role in advancing the rights of Nepali women by crafting – in an incremental way – a nuanced, contextually sensitive, constitutional meaning of gender equality. In this respect, gender equality jurisprudence has been central to the judicial construction of Nepal’s constitutional identity.

      Nepal’s extensive experience of gender equality litigation offers key comparative lessons – especially for deeply divided societies – on the accommodation of demands for social inclusion and the construction of social identities by constitutional means.

    104. terence callachan says:

      Dakk… don’t be daft NS is not a unionist lay off the sauce

    105. terence callachan says:

      CBB….haha, your guessing game doesn’t wash with me
      I’ve read all there is to read about GRE proposals on the Scottish govt website including the many many consultation papers and responses

      What I don’t have is opinion influenced by religious upbringing or a fear of the unknown

    106. terence callachan says:

      John Thompson…and others

      Forget about a “ wings party “

      Ludicrous childish idea never going to succeed

      It takes years and years to build a successful political party and longer to become governing party

    107. Jimmock says:

      I am not a fan of JK but I read her story and felt for her. The Scottish government really need to think again. They must redd out these weird people who seem to be calling the shots even if it means removing the present first minister.

    108. Col.Blimp IV says:

      The seeds of Wokery have been bubbling under for a while now, disguised as common decency and regard for the feelings of one’s fellow man.

      First they came for Bernard Manning, and I did not speak out, because I was not a misogynistic racist cunt,”….

      Yep, sooner or later the Thought Police will come for You.

    109. Capella says:

      I agree with the comments above. Much as I distrust J K Rowling for her duplicity in telling Scots they were like the spouse who, about to walk out of the door, suitcase in hand, decides to give the partner another chance and that this will be empowering. She has never retracted that nor apologised.

      However, on the GRA issue I totally agree with her and admire her courage in spelling out her personal pain. She has been the target of some dreadful abuse for speaking out.

      It’s ironic that she herself had to flee an abusive partner and yet presented us with a false hope that stayibg in a bad relationship is the right thing to do.

      If the SNP ignore this clear warning of the grief that lies ahead then they will deserve to lose support.

    110. Beaker says:

      @CameronB Brodie says:
      11 June, 2020 at 12:31 am
      terence callachan
      “You don’t appear to have a clue but you appear happy to risk endangering women and children.”

      I think terence wants us to join the SNP Glee Club. Everyone is welcome but you must understand that whatever the leader does or say is always right, even when wrong.

    111. terence callachan says:

      Capella ….
      So with regards what JKR said

      you think

      “It’s ironic that she herself had to flee an abusive partner and yet presented us with a false hope that stayibg in a bad relationship is the right thing to do.“

      Just ironic ?

      You don’t think she tells lies ? To protect her own financial interests

      You don’t think she would make a statement criticising Scot gov GRE proposals just for that same reason ? To protect her own financial interests

      Scotland remaining under the control of England does “ protect her financial interests “

      You do know this …don’t you ?

    112. Famous15 says:

      In the lockdown i overhear the teen children listening to almost amateur American programmes .

      One discussion in a Californian High School includes a male child explaining why he wears effeminate clothing etc and that is because his mom always wanted a girl. It continues with a discussion on him being pressured to take medication ‘to make his life easier.” I was appalled and stupidly turned off the TV before I heard the full story.

      Is it possible that children are being treated like this legally?

    113. terence callachan says:

      Beaker….haha good one Beaker I’m always happy to say I think someone …anyone…is wrong

      You for example

      You are wrong Beaker

    114. terence callachan says:

      Goodnight Scottish independence supporters sleep well

    115. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m afraid that would appear to be the case. 😉

      Gender as an ‘Interplay of Rules’: Detecting
      Epistemic Interplay of Medical and Legal Discourse
      with Sex and Gender Classification in Four
      Editions of the Dewey Decimal Classification

    116. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Getting really quite weary of you, Terence.

    117. Capella says:

      @ terence callachan – anyone can tell lies. But her personal details are on Wikipedia, at least they were in 2014 when she told us to give the Union another chance and we’d be treated like best pals.
      Having worked in Women’s Aid, rescuing women and children from violent partners, I knew that she knew that her advice was mendacious.

      But she is right about this issue. Of course, she could have devious motives and use it to attack the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon. But that is precisely why so many of us have been telling the SNP to wake up. Really Wake Up.

      This is a completely stupid piece of legislation and an own goal. They will suffer deserved loss of support unless they start listening to what the majority of voters are telling them.

    118. twathater says:

      Just watched Graham Simpson MSP Tory ask Gordon Dewar MD of Edinburgh Airport what are the rules for quarantining incoming pax from abroad , Steven Jardine asks Simpson should he not be TELLING the MD what the rules are as he is in the SP , Simpson IGNORES Jardines question and continues with his question

      FFS this TWAT is being paid big bucks for being STUPID and is not even embarrassed

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      One for all the epistemology geeks out there. 🙂

      Positioning Oneself Within an Epistemology: Refining Our Thinking About Integrative Approaches

    120. Capella says:

      @ terence callachan – and before you say “consultation” again, the consultations are flawed. They ask everyone in the whole world, they ask organisations who depend on SG funding for survival and, in order to qualify for the funding, they MUST support transgender ideology. They also consult, on a weekly basis, transgender lobby groups (but not women’s groups).

      Flawed policy based on flawed process.

    121. Ruglonian says:

      Terrance, I don’t know exactly what point you were making in response.

      My point is that the indefatigable nature of the women’s groups who have formed to deal with this is bigger than you obviously realise – spending time IRL with these folk would make that undeniable to you – there’s *way* more solid activism going on than some obviously know!!

    122. A Person says:

      Terence Callahan-

      What a horrible thing to say.

      Regardless of Rowling’s opinions on independence she has been sexually assaulted.

      Even if this was a lie it only has resonance because the SNP are pushing this awful agenda.

    123. Liz g says:

      Rev…I hope you don’t mind !( Delete if you do )

      Terrance Callahan ..
      You said “Goodnight” after we discussed ZOG.
      I of course agreed…not needing to push my obvious point..
      So now here we are…Good Day Terrac ! This time around..”now do you understand” was I think my question ?
      Well…Do You Terrance???

    124. Iain More says:

      I have no time and I will never have any time for that anti Indy Billionaire white settler Rowling. Thousands of my fellow Scots are dead now because Scotland voted No in 2014 and she was an advocate of a No vote – So fuck her and her opinions about anything now.

    125. Ruglonian says:

      Agree completely Capella – with what you said about her revealing her personal pain, and about the deeply flawed consultations.

      I find it absolutely insulting to witness this level of underestimation – WE know precisely what this ‘debate’ means, just as WE have empathy with this woman’s courage for the greater good.

      A Person – I admire your remarkable restraint! That comment was frankly disgusting 🙁

    126. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Plenty of us have strong opinions on TRA-related stuff but bite our tongues because we are, wait for it, men.

      JKR is a woman, so her take on it is more relevant than mine, Daniel What’s-his-face, John Swinney, Patrick Harvie, or any other bloke, no matter what they happen to be wearing or what pronoun they have on their Twitter header.

      I take my lead on this from the women/girls groups who are presenting a civilised response/opposition to some of the nastiest discourse to have emerged via ‘social media’, and many men do likewise. But we won’t stay silent when other ‘men’ inveigle others into believing that they have a say in important stuff which happens to be none of their fucking business.

    127. dakk says:

      Although I’m wary of gender self id myself, I would trust the Norwegian and Irish governments to look after their people more than most.

    128. Liz g says:

      I see the Rev has let my comment stand!
      So… To those who didn’t know,and for the avoidance of doubt…

      Terrance Callahan … Stated that should I have the ability to remove all Trans People to the Planet ZOG… I’d still have to worry about predatory men…

      I replied..Indeed I would…but while it was not something I’d ever wish to do.
      I’d not have to worry about Trans people making laws that enabled Predatory Men.
      Then asked Terrance “Now Do You See” ?
      Answer there came none!
      I capitulated to a “good night” as thinking space is always better than entrenchment…
      But we’re right back to asking .. So!
      Terrance….Now Do You See???

    129. Ruglonian says:

      Thank you for that comment Ian – knowledgeable, respectful and aware of the myriad issues before just wading in to make a cheap political point – a perfect illustration of how to be a valuable ally 🙂

    130. Iain More says:

      Oh and about my earlier post. I have now lost two life long friends to Covid 19 in the last two weeks. I hear another lifelong friend is on a ventilator right now and might not survive the night. I am angry and I am getting angrier. Rowling can GTF and so can the SNP who had no less than 6 mandates to have a Referendum and did nothing.

    131. CameronB Brodie says:

      terence callachan
      “What I don’t have is opinion influenced by religious upbringing or a fear of the unknown”

      You are showing yourself up to be somewhat full of yourself. Without justifiable reason I might add.

      The Role of Feminist Standpoint and Intersectionality Epistemologies in Providing Insights into the Causes of Gender Disparity in Higher Education

    132. twathater says:

      I agree with JK Rowlings views on the GRA as I have stated previously , I wonder if Ms Rowlings has considered her previous stance that she took on Scotland’s independence and if like the rest of us feels BETRAYED that WM and the establishment parties have done the exact opposite of her pronouncement

      Far from being cherished and loved by an abusive partner if we remained in the union WM have increased the denigration and humiliation towards the country and people of her adopted nation Scotland , does Ms Rowling REGRET her exhortations , would Ms Rowling leave that abusive partner or would she remain in a loveless constrained union subjected to daily derision and insult

      If Ms Rowling has changed her views and opinion of remaining in an abusive partnership I think she should be open and honest about it , and in the interest of being fair and contrite I think Ms Rowling should dedicate the same financial commitment of £1 million pounds to help achieve a legal constitutional challenge to the abusive union which she unwittingly convinced people to support

    133. Willie says:

      I may disagree entirely with JK Rowling on her views and stance on independence but on this GRA lunacy she is absolutely correct.

      Sturgeon and her woken band are way off beam on promoting this micro minority nonsense and a backlash is coming. And it will be a backlash that will restrict tolerance against what society now recognises largely as being acceptable whereas previously it was not.

      Unless the SNP changes course I would predict that it is I;for a big shock. Out of touch with ordinary voters on this, and distant from the more committed independence supporters, the stall is set.

      The crash and spectacular burn of Labour in Scotland will be replicated by the SNP. Wokeism, spin, selection mismanagement, black arts internal warfare, membership decline, conference agenda mismanagement – its all there and more.

      Forty years a member, and now when we are so close this pile of shite. Time for a clear out. And to go back to the start of this article, I never ever thought I would be agreeing with the Rev Stu saying that he agrees with someone like JK Rowling and disagreeing with the leader of the SNP..

    134. Liz g says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 2.05
      Exactly Ian..
      Everyone can have an opinion ( of course they can )
      But they don’t own the Facts?
      Extraordinary claims need Extraordinary Evediance.
      So… All those who say “Trans Women Are Women” . .. On Ye Go… Facts & Evedience?
      Ye have the floor??

    135. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s how far off-beam the woke-set are. Standpoint epistemology is coherent with the natural sciences and is compatible with natural law. TWAW not so much.

      Rethinking Standpoint Epistemology: What is “Strong Objectivity”?

    136. twathater says:

      Liz g , Ruglonian , Ian B , Susan , Capella ,Bob Mack , Robert Louis , Mustleguy , others , as people who are inflamed at the SNP’s direction or lack of re indy can I ask have you looked at my proposal for forms stating that persons will NOT vote for the SNP in any further elections until they have stated categorically and in writing that the next SE will be a plebiscite for indy and the GRA and Hate crime bill must be shelved until independence

      People are moaning that the SNP are not listening , yet when you propose a method that will FORCE them to listen TUMBLEWEED

    137. Liz g says:

      Me @ 2.38
      In Fact..Ye probably have the biggest Uncensored Floor in the whole of Scotland!
      Don’t be shy…state and defend yer case.
      Win it here and it will be unassailable.
      If yer right,yer right…there will be nae denying anymore.
      Let’s all hear it and we can all get aboard in an independent Scotland…

    138. Ayeright says:

      J.K. Rowling is no friend of Independence.

      She put her money where her mouth is by giving Better Together £1,000,000 not something any of us could do.

      She is a UNIONIST and yet here we are supporting her because she is against GRA reform. All I can say then is if GRA reform is the most important thing in your life then go for it, support the Jackey Rowling millionaire even if she is against independence. Why not.

      I’ll be sticking with supporting independence.

    139. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liz g
      I wouldn’t hold my breath Liz.

      Lessons in Reflexivity: Encounters, Standpoint, and Realism

    140. Liz g says:

      Twathater @ 2.45
      Yes I did…and I know you proposed it before…I agree,and when I heard “jeggit” speak a few years ago I agreed with him ( sayin much the same thing then )… I think you’re right unless and until the SNP really believe that we will remove them from power they won’t take us seriously!
      And that our alternative is so pathetic and / or dangerous we wouldn’t dare act is debunked we are stuck..
      I don’t think that delivering ultimatums’s would work either …I know this sounds defeatist…but I have many friends who have tried to get through.
      The end result is that the “party” don’t trust the yes movement to deliver.
      So they wait till the “party” can..that’s not going to happen but they can’t let go.
      I don’t know what the answer is yet.
      I do know that a union that half the country don’t want can’t survive…Every route we propose has merit…all I can tell us my friend is….something’s got to give.( I wish I could say more ) and right soon… Hey… 🙂

    141. CameronB Brodie says:

      We’ll never gain indy if the SNP chucks women under the bus.

      Encyclopedia of Social Theory
      Standpoint Theory

      The idea of a standpoint theory is most widely used in feminist theory and most strongly rooted in a broader sense of multicultural theory. Most generally, a standpoint theory is one that gives light to the specific circumstances and insider knowledge available only to members of a certain collective standpoint. This collective need not be a group in the strictest sense of the word but rather a shared location identified by some heterogeneous commonality.

      In other words, the idea of a collective standpoint does not imply an essential overarching characteristic but rather a sense of belonging to a group bounded by a shared experience.

      The idea of a standpoint theory is a group-based ideology. An individual can be a member of several standpoints (black, woman, Jew, ….

    142. Liz g says:

      Cameron B Brodie @ 3.05
      Oh I won’t… 🙂

    143. Willie says:

      Meanwhile whilst the First Minister concentrates on trying to posit that she did not follow the U.K. government in policy lockstep, and her coterie focus on micro minority issues like GRA or the need for a Hate Bill, the matter of the education of our children is an issue about to explode.

      And why do I say this.

      Well I do because on Friday the stalwart education minister John Swinney sent a letter to education chiefs about the proposed August school resumption.

      A link to this correspondence is attached below.

      The matter of the resumption of teaching is a huge issue because when the schools go back the Scottish Government proposal is for ‘ blended teaching ‘ whereby teaching will be for two days at school with the other three days being based upon children working at home.

      For anyone thinking about this for even the shortest period of time this is a huge impact on education. Three days not at school but sitting at home working is no substitute for teaching. Moreover, there is also a patent unfairness in this when children identified as disadvantaged, or children lucky enough to have a parent or parents identified as key workers, will be entitled to five days schooling.

      Surely All children should be entitled to five days schooling – and not just those classified as being disadvantaged or lucky enough to have parents classified as key workers.

      No doubt there will have been much thought put into this. No doubt a lot of politicking too. Teachers ( and local authorities ) if I may gently say so have always been an awkward bunch quite ready to strike and so John Swinney will have not had matters easy.

      But at the heart of Mr Swinney’s letter it seems that the driver of maintaining distancing between pupils and teachers has given rise to the decision to deliver split teaching based upon two times two days with a Wednesday reserved for teacher preparation and marking. Ergo the two day teaching week for most pupils.

      But is this the only way schools cam make things work by more than halving the teaching time to accommodate smaller better spaced class rooms and pupil movements.

      Schools are all different in their complexion be it in class sizes, numbers for particular subjects, school building configurations, teacher availability and so on.

      I am not an educationalist and I can appreciate the challenges of timetabling and so on. But starting from the premise that social distancing is now requiring teaching to be a split two times two day arrangement with a Wednesday in between for teachers to mark and or prepare, I really do wonder if this is the right approach.

      If space in classrooms, and to a lesser extent space during pupil movements, is the criteria, how can this not be managed in other ways. Other way that allow five or maybe four and a half days at school, in a class, with a teacher.

      If space could be increased, with bigger classrooms or teaching areas, could not spacing be achieved without the need to halve class numbers.

      Most schools, especially new ones, have gym halls, have assembly areas, have pupil congregation areas. have cafeteria. With the judicious use of screening and partitioning could these areas not be used to create bigger adequately spaced class rooms. Or what about bringing in more supply teachers, or the use of annex buildings such as community buildings as annexes for particular subjects. Surely between our school estate and community buildings there is room to create bigger sized classrooms – and yes the teacher may have to speak a bit louder, or even sit in the middle of the class, but if that delivers five days education, as opposed to two, surely that is better.

      Or could increased air changes through the HVAC system where available, or the use of masks not also be considered.

      Or what about extending the school day Monday to Thursday by say 45 minutes and reducing period times by five or ten minutes. That would increase the number of periods, and together with a lunchtime finish If teachers needed the respite from the additional teaching time Monday to Thursday.

      Or what about encouraging recently retired teachers back as supply. Many teachers have retired early. Could some of them not be encouraged back.

      One size certainly does not fit all. Schools have been suspended for a long time now, and surely the criteria has to be to maximise teaching time to four or five days.

      And yet, three months into school suspensions there has been no public debate, and certainly no public choice.

      Well it’s high time there was debate, and high time the individual local authorities were engaging on how they are going to deliver. It is after all the local authorities, who under governmental guidance, manage the individual schools and their educational estate on a day to day basis.

      Moreover, surely is not for the Scottish Government to dictate a blanket policy that all schools are to a two day week save for special categories of children. One size does not fit all and that there is no other way.

      Time therefore for the public, the parents, to be involved. Our children’s future depends on this and the last thing parents, or at least the vast majority of parents want, is a generation of children educationally blighted. ( – albeit that some politicos think schooling is more about child minding ! )

      Education has to be a huge focus for us all. A priority right at the top. And if we are going to be told that two days for most is the way it has to be then we have to have that out on the table now before the 11th of August.

    144. Ayeright says:

      There is no link.

    145. Ayeright says:


      You posted that pile of shite last Saturday as well.

      Take tomorrow off.

    146. Willie says:

      Ah, Liz, Twathster, Ayeright, Cameron B , Iain More, Ruglonian – have yoose no beds to go to, or jobs in the morning with all this wee sma hours posting.

      It’s like the veritable night shift. Getting light now at 4.03 am – I’m off. Over and toot.

    147. Willie says:

      Here, Ayeright. Just before I go I don’t agree with your early morning comment that what I posted is to use your phrase a pile of shite.

      Education is crucially important. At least I think so, and I suspect most other people do to. Two days teaching for our schoolchildren can not be good. Even the most uneducated would likely be able to discern that. I’m sorry that you don’t.

      Anyway, thanks for the comment. It adds to the rich tapestry of intellect that prevails within our community.

      Over and out. Stay cool and no abusing the cat now.

    148. Ayeright says:


      It’s old news you already shared so why post again? Nothing better to say.

    149. Ayeright says:


      Tell you something else, your claim of two days teaching is what is THE pile of shite. Do your research 🙂

    150. Liz g says:

      Is this Willie stuff of the old ..leave a bad comment at the end of each thread ploy?
      Honest tae fuck Brian…we delt wi that years ago!!
      Read rather up “mon braves”. Pffftts

    151. Scozzie says:

      Terrance Callaghan @ 12.30
      Say that to the woman sharing a cell with a hairy-assed man who calls himself Delilah!

      Say that to the traumatised woman in a refuge sharing her space with a hairy-assed man who calls himself Delilah!

      Say that to the woman who is followed into a changing room by a hairy-assed man who calls himself Delilah!

      Say that to the mums whose children come home saying that girls can have penises and all they need to do is call themselves Delilah!

      Say that to the males / females who inadvertently ‘misgender’ Delilah and find themselves convicted under the hate crime bill.

      Say that to the lesbian who’s under pressure to accept Delilah’s girl-dick and not be exclusively attracted to female genitals because Delilah’s a lesbian coz ‘she’ says so.

      …you get my point (I hope). Self-ID under GRA legislation along with the hate crime bill will have a deeply negative impact on all of society and no-one can escape it, not even you as a male adult.

      I don’t think the strength of feeling will fade in a year or two as you suggest. I think there will be a string lived experiences, particularly on women and girls, that will put women’s sex based rights back generations.

    152. susan says:

      Absolutely! @Scozzie. Bad legislation should never be “ignored for the bigger picture”. I desperately want Scottish Independence, but not at that price. The SNP are showing themselves up very badly on this. Science-denying, undemocratic and authoritarian. No thanks to that in an independent Scotland. Woke-istan indeed.

    153. Carol Fraser says:

      I had a spat with Kirsty on Messenger yesterday as she’s my MP. Download available if you want it Stu.

    154. Capella says:

      @ twathater 2.45 am – on the GRA issue they will not listen. They have adopted the trans mantra “No Debate”.

      Like many others, I wrote to them several times and received no reply, not even an acknowledgment. They are trained by trans lobbyists not to engage on this issue. These changes are made under the radar, in closed meetings with the heads of department. Anyone who disagrees is dismissed as a “bigot”.
      They have no respect for bigots and if that means the 52% of the voting public then so be it.

      So they will look at the opinion polls and see that the SNP is 54% in the polls and conclude that the generel public supports their policies. But, up until now, the general public has no idea what is being proposed. Because “No Debate” and “under the radar”.

      JK Rowling is pictured on the front pages of much of the MSM this morning. So there may be a debate after all.

    155. Dan says:

      dakk says: at 2:09 am

      Although I’m wary of gender self id myself, I would trust the Norwegian and Irish governments to look after their people more than most.

      The thing is Noway and Ireland are already independent countries so can go about their internal business as they see fit.
      Scotland however is generally small c conservative by nature, and currently in a very precarious position due to being in a union with a much larger domineering partner.

      If we’re trying to carefully build support to the point where the majority of Scots feel that governing ourselves in a sensible and logical manner is the best option, it would make sense not to scare the horses by pursuing policies that folk do not agree with.
      And especially when those particular policies will be weaponised against the Indy cause by a MSM and broadcaster that doesn’t want Scotland to return to being an independent country.

    156. Was trying to think what other of the British Nationalist class of 2014 is going to stand up for all woman against the assualt by bearded woke men,

      who could be worse to join and agree with than JK or the graverobber,

      Johann Lamont MSP

      `Just read this.(JK essay) And understand that women – without fame or fortune – agree. Salute her courage, listen to her argument. But, as importantly, listen to all those women who are speaking up and speaking out for women’s rights.`

      who`s next,

      Maggs Curran,Gordon Brown,her fae the BBC,Spud Murphy,Alex Massie or dare i say it Colonel Ruth.

    157. I forgot Muriel Gray,

      imagine agreeing with that, jeezo.

    158. Phydaux says:

      JK Rowling has taken a courageous and very public stance on the proposed GRA reforms. She has shared some deeply personal and traumatic experiences which still affect her to this day. As a mother, her primary concerns are to protect her daughters and keep them safe. Unlike the SNP whose primary concerns are “ mindless progressivism “ with policies which pose very real dangers and risks to our children and women.

      There’s lots of things not quite right at SNP Mission Control. To trust people, I need to feel good about them. I don’t anymore. Is it the case that properly addressing the root causes of gender/body dysmorphia is way too difficult or challenging or what? A society that is properly educated, psychologically, will know about and understand differences and learn to celebrate and respect them.

      Good to see Stuart and JK Rowling recognising their common interests re GRA.
      George Orwell: “ People are always better than we think they are. “

    159. defo says:

      IOW, you may well be right, but we’re on opposite sides so I must disagree.

    160. Martin says:

      JK Rowling attracts very little respect from me.

      For her: she wrote some decent books that got kids reading in huge numbers, she stood up for women more than a few times.

      Against her: threatens lawsuits at drop of hat and is a financial bully.

      However, she shouldn’t have to defend herself publicly for calling women women. She is completely right- society is becoming more misogynist. It is appalling that TRAs are having so much weight. Please note I don’t class TRAs and trans people as a single entity. I know quite alot of trans people professionally. Unsurprisingly they’re normal humans who don’t want to enact thought crime against the public.

      There is a very dangerous cabal at the heart of the SNP, it’s absolute cronyism and the interconnections between them all is worrying. Labour used to have it and it manifested in brown envelope bungs for shoddy buildings across Scotland. The SNP has it and it’s resulted in a quiet dropping of Independence as a priority, and poorly written legislation being sneaked in without public consultation (or rather, with lip service public consultation which is kept secret and ignored).

      We need to do better for women. This is doing worse.

    161. Martin says:

      “Scot Finlayson says:

      11 June, 2020 at 8:36 am

      who`s next,

      Maggs Curran,Gordon Brown,her fae the BBC,Spud Murphy,Alex Massie or dare i say it Colonel Ruth.”

      My money would be on Massie. He believes in the Union (as is his right) and that comes across. But he’s generally pretty thoughtful and fair minded. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if he were to look into the activities of TRAs and come to a sensible conclusion.

    162. How does/would the law work in Scotland if a man decides to be a woman (but keeps his male physical structure) and then r@pes a woman,

      can a woman be prosecuted for r@pe,

      the Judicial system in Scotland is such a total corrupt absurd shambles so wouldn`t be surprised if nobody really knows.

    163. Dan says:

      Liz g says: at 3:07 am

      I don’t think that delivering ultimatums’s would work either …I know this sounds defeatist…but I have many friends who have tried to get through.

      Capella says: at 8:25 am

      on the GRA issue they will not listen. They have adopted the trans mantra “No Debate”.

      Like many others, I wrote to them several times and received no reply, not even an acknowledgment.

      Random individuals resigning their membership or highlighting their concerns to a branch, constituency association, or headquarters at different times lack the power and impact that a coordinated collective approach would might have.

      We need to push a large bus that has a duff clutch and lost drive, there are hundreds of activists who can push, but if they all try turn up as individuals to shove at different times they lack the collective force to move the bus, but if they coordinate and exert their efforts together the bus will be moveable.
      It’s just basic engineering along the lines of using leavers, pressure intensifiers, or torque multipliers to raise the level of force required to do a specific task.

    164. Capella says:

      @ Scot Finlayson – Yes. In Scotland crimes committed by transwomen i.e. men are recorded as crimes committed by women. I believe this change happened in 2011.
      Amazingly, female crime rates are rising.
      In England, a woman r*ped by a transwoman is forced to refer to her r*pist in court as “she”. Otherwise she is charged with Hate Crime for misgendering.

    165. Scozzie says:

      Scot Finlayson @9.05am
      My understanding is that if a man self-IDs as a woman the crime will be recorded as committed by a female. I believe the police, judicial system are already recording crimes by male-bodied self ID transwomen as female. This will, of course, distort criminal statistics.

      The definition of rape is penetration by a penis. If the male-bodied transwoman retains his genetils it still fits the definition of rape, except that it will be rape of a woman by a woman – go figure!

      I’m no expert, so very happy to be corrected on my understanding of this.

    166. Capella says:

      @ cynicalHighlander – just so. The Yogyakarta Principles which the Scottish government is claiming to follow, are not endorsed by the UN or any other body:

      The Principles have never been accepted by the United Nations and the attempt to make gender identity and sexual orientation new categories of non-discrimination has been repeatedly rejected by the General Assembly, the UN Human Rights Council and other UN bodies

      BTW these principles were developed by the International Commission of Jurists set up in Berlin in 1952 primarily to pursue the Soviet Union for human rights abuses, ironically enough. The ICJ was set up and funded by the CIA at a time when the rabidly anti-communist director Allen Dulles was in charge, probably one of the most evil men ever to disgrace pubic office.

      The ICJ was initially partially funded by the Central Intelligence Agency through the American Fund for Free Jurists, but the CIA’s role was not known to most of the ICJ’s members.[4] American founders like Allen Dulles and John J. McCloy conceived it as a counter to the International Association of Democratic Lawyers controlled by the Soviet Union.[5][page needed] Ex-CIA officer Philip Agee considered that the ICJ was “set up and controlled by the CIA for propaganda operations.”[6] The CIA funding became public in 1967, but the organization survived the revelations after a period of reform under Secretary General Sean MacBride, and through Ford Foundation funding.

      Dulles would be pleased to note how effectively his brainchild is destroying left wing political parties.

    167. Effijy says:

      O/T. This story about Lord Baden Powell’s statue.

      A group have identified that he is on record for being
      Homophobic, a Racist and a Hitler supporting Fascist.

      The statue will not be removed.
      His thoughts are pretty much in line with the current Tory government
      And let’s not forget that the man who abdicated as King was also a
      Hitler supporting fascist.

      The Tories brought in things like the bedroom tax and universal discredit
      To begin assaulting the weak and vulnerable, just as Adolf attacked them.
      Boris tried to close parliament and give himself excessive new powers just
      Like Adolf and he also followed on by isolating any non supportive media from
      His press conferences and forced supporting media to attack them.

      Both lunatic leaders were against Blacks, remember Boris talking about water
      Melon smiles and having faces like a letter box.
      Both announced they were the superior race on this planet and both wanted lands
      They formally ruled reinstated. ( Empire here we come)

      Adolf did build the Autobahns but Boris is stuck in the railway sidings of his England only
      HS2 which he claims will be able to move as fast as the construction costs.

      So Baden Powell’s Woggle need worry as he sits with like minded people.

      Camp fire is burning!
      Dib Dib

    168. Capella says:

      Oops pubic = public! Apt though.

    169. Alibi says:

      Independence should not be linked to ANY specific policies or legislation. Independence gives us the chance of a blank canvas on which we can paint a new nation. To compromise the chance of independence in order to try to implement something as stupid as “transwomen are women” is moronic, and I would question the motives of anyone who would touch that blatant lie with a bargepole. Trans people should of course be treaed with respect, and they should not be persecuted or otherwise discriminated against, but that does not mean that we should be forced to accept a lie as truth. Transwomen are NOT women – that is a scientific fact – and it really is not a hill to die on for the indy movement. It is beyond time that those who claim transwomen are women were called out every time they utter that nonsense – Kirsty Blackman being the latest one to spout shite. Are these people so stupid that they cn’t see the damage they are doing, or are they actually attempting to damage the indy movement deliberately (for money perhaps?). I will vote SNP and my own MSP opposes this nonsense, but honestly can’t see why so many are denying scientific reality.

    170. @Capella,

      so are you saying any man who is caught r@ping a woman will not be procecuted for r@pe if he decides he is a woman,

      is that not a `get out of jail free` card for all r@pists,

      sounds beyond absurd but looking at the complete corrupt mess the risible judiciary in Scotland is it wouldn`t surprise me.

    171. terence callachan says:

      I trust Scottish government to give Scotland a vote on independence

      I trust Scottish government to make correct decisions about GRE legislation

      People on here might know better than Scottish government about these matters but I have not seen any evidence that they do
      Saying that I do accept that governments sometimes get things wrong
      Safety and well-being of women and of trans people is paramount

      Time will tell

    172. Capella says:

      @ Scot Finlayson – no, not yet at least. But give them time. Incremental changes under the radar seems to be the MO.

      R*pe, by legal definition, can only be committed by men. However, the perpetrator can be treated as a woman in court and in the police record. So paradoxically, crimes which can only be committed by men can be recorded as committed by women.
      Why are women becoming so aggressive these days, I wonder?

    173. Ryan Mac says:

      What I want to know is: what percentage of SNP membership are actually FOR the idea of self-ID? It must be a really low percentage so why the hell are they hell-bent on pursuing it??

    174. Liz says:

      The Rev is not the only one getting weary of Terence. He hasn’t got a clue about GRA reform.
      The usual patronising, I’m not scared of change, that’s because it won’t affect you, you’re a man.

      As for suggesting JKR is lying, she mentioned years ago having to leave her husband and yes she came from a well off background but she was a single mum living in a 1 bed flat in Edinburgh.

      She briefly mentioned her depression in the past, so stop with this attempt to discredit her.
      I say that as someone who argued against her pro Gordon Brown, pro union stance but on this she is 100% correct

      NS is a dangerous fanatic and at the moment, I’d struggle to vote for them.
      She’s certainly pulled the wool over the eyes of some very gullible people.
      She has NO intention of pushing for independence


    175. Republicofscotland says:

      One time Labour MP and bar brawler Eric Joyce, who represented the Falkirk constituency between 2000 and 2012, has appeared in court over a child sex offence, unconditional bail was granted, a pre-trial hearing is set for July 7th in Ipswich.

      I recall Joyce commenting the odd time in here if memory serves.

    176. Mike d says:

      Alibi.9.40am. As an SNP member I’m fully in agreement with you.

    177. Republicofscotland says:

      Boris Johnson was left mumbling for six seconds to find any qualities that Donald Trump possessed when asked by the the SNPs Kirsty Blackman, Johnson could only say that Trump was the President of the United States at Wednesdays PMQs.

      Labours Millionaire Knight of the Realm Sir Keir Starmer (They were determined to replace Corbyn a socialist with a Red Tory and they did it really drill home that Labour are anything but a socialist party now), also had a pop at Johnson on racial inequality.

    178. Mike d says:

      Martin 8.48am. What this GRA sh**e needs is women who are women taking to the streets around Holyrood in their thousands and demanding an end to this bill.

    179. Republicofscotland says:

      Former (SAGE) Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies adviser Professor Neil Ferguson claims that 25,000 lives may have been lost due to the UKs late lockdown. Ferguson stated the claimant a House of Commons Science Committee.

      The PM Boris Johnson, said Ferguson’s claim was premature. It’s interesting to note that Johnson didn’t state claim that Ferguson was wrong.

    180. Julia Gibb says:


      Keep following the money. That is the story that will collapse the clique of fake Independence supporters currently manipulating the Party. They are moving funds around to hide the gap and it is getting more and more difficult for them. Keep following that line. Unfortunately the damaging exposure seems to be the only way to save my Party long term.

      The vast majority of SNP members and elected reps are good people and committed to Independence. The behaviour of a few individuals at HQ should not be used to label the Party as failing.

      The future of generations of Scots is far more important than the egos of a handful of people.

      When I vote SNP, I do so to drive forward the case for Independence. At the moment I see no alternative that will keep that momentum going. I will stay in and help to recover my Party that does not mean I condone the current mire at HQ.

      Those posters who just attack the SNP, will not vote for the SNP offer only one alternative by that stance – keep the Union. Those who are fighting to recover the Party and achieve Independence are doing far more work than these empty rants on social media.

      Rev, keep shining that bright light on the Party. 99.9% of us having nothing to fear from that exposure.

    181. W. Habib Steele says:

      When I was young and went into hospital for surgery, the chart at the foot of my bed included on a designation for sex. I was identified as male. When was “sex” replaced by “gender”?

      It seems to me that this replacement is causing confusion. Nouns and pronouns used to have gender and people and animals had sex. When and why was this change made?

    182. A Person says:


      Johnson was asked by an MP to name Trump’s qualities because that was the part where he was meant to ‘denounce’ him. It was the usual childish performance politics. “He’s the leader of Britain’s closest ally” is actually quite a good response because it’s realistic.

      Neither Johnson nor Trump has any redeeming features but this mental politics of denunciation and apologising has got to stop.

      In Scotland we are at least not ashamed of our own history.

    183. Republicofscotland says:

      James Kelly of Scot Goes PoP Panelbase poll shows that 60% of Scots still want to remain in the EU, down 2% but still a fair amount, could this be a route to independence? Interestingly Kelly points out that the Kingdom of Denmark consists of three component parts, of which two, the Faroe Islands and Greenland are outside the EU, but Denmark is a proper member of the EU.

      So there’s is a precedent for Scotland remaining in the EU and the rest of the UK can still be outside it. Okay it’s not independence but it still leaves us trading and food standard opportunities, and independence may come later. I doubt though Westminster will permit it. Sturgeon must take up Barnier’s offer to meet and discuss how to prolong the extension.

    184. ahundredthidiot says:


      re Niel Ferguson

      He is wrong – and has been about everything – for a very long time.

      Boris is just not being pinned down as any ‘good’ politician would.

    185. A Person says:


      What do you think SNO members should do to get the party back on track? How can we organise?

    186. Bob Mack says:


      The law in England is as you describe it. However in Scotland the very act of unwanted penetration by whatever means is an offence, regardless of whether male it female.

      It carries similar sentencing to rape.

    187. susan says:

      Alibi 09.40 and Liz 10.20, I agree totally. And no, Terence I have no confidence in the scotgov to handle this matter sensibly – with the GRPB Bill they have already proved they are untrustworthy. TIMs expand the bandwidth of being MEN not WOMEN.

    188. Effijy says:

      Men could rape men and women rape women!

      If this nonsense became law, how do sports bodies overrule
      When a man says he’s a woman and wants to enter a women’s

      The men’s number 100 seed could win the women’s Wimbledon title.

      There is a South African lady runner who wins most races who had fellow
      Female runners and the athletics bodies who want to ban her as she has
      Quite natural but high levels of male hormones?

      The world seems to be beyond saving with such levels of lunacy prevailing.

    189. Shug says:

      The GR policy will go the way of named persons
      You can’t polish a turd
      If nicola does try to take it further she will be toast
      It is an obvious trap, you don’t hear the tories or Labour attacking it. They want her to take it forward to a crash

    190. ahundredthidiot says:


      You seem very confused as you flip flop and dance on the pin of the needle over GRA – no doubt you are the same with Hate Crime Laws.

      Perhaps that’s why you attend BLM ‘protests’ – which are becoming nothing less than the burning of the books in 1930’s Germany as the Mob abolish songs, movies, TV programmes and sack football players for their wives twitter posts.

      I am glad that little dog pissed on your stupid placard – it probably has more brains and focus than you.

    191. Republicofscotland says:

      “In Scotland we are at least not ashamed of our own history.”

      A Person.

      Oh I don’t know, I and I’m sure other are ashamed of Scotland’s part in the slave trade, or our our folk fighting and killing in foreign lands for mainly the benefit of the British empire which was ruled from London.

      I’m ashamed of Scots troops helping to raze Libya to the ground, and the death and destruction in Iraq, and the killings in Afghanistan. There’s much for Scots to be ashamed of as part of the British empire subduing the Indian continent by force and massacres, and the bloody murders and concentration camps of the Great Boer war are but a few examples.

    192. mike cassidy says:

      1)Terence Callahan

      Read the Norway link provided earlier

      2)Crime statistics in Scotland

      From March 2019

      Justice secretary Humza Yousaf told MSPs on Wednesday that the national force requires no evidence of gender other than a person’s self declaration unless it is “pertinent” to a criminal investigation they are involved in.

      And that’s before the GRA reform comes in – ie Police Scotland acting as if it is already law.

      The transactivist lobbying has been successful enough to create this ‘as if’ approach with many organisations by exploiting the transphobia card.

      Pronouns at Asda, anyone?

    193. Republicofscotland says:

      “ahundredthidiot says:
      11 June, 2020 at 10:54 am

      re Niel Ferguson

      He is wrong – and has been about everything – for a very long time.

      Boris is just not being pinned down as any ‘good’ politician would”


      I don’t know about Johnson being a good politician, that seems like a wild accusation to me. Anyway if Ferguson is so wrong as you say, then why would your good politician Johnson have any fear of being pinned down as you put it?

      No for Johnson to say Ferguson is premature, is in my book Johnson admitting that when the dust settles around Covid-19 Ferguson might or might not be close to the mark.

    194. ahundredthidiot says:

      A Person 10:51

      ‘Neither Johnson nor Trump has any redeeming feature…..’

      I don’t think that’s very fair, both of them are fucking hilarious.

    195. Republicofscotland says:

      So it’s been revealed that Prince Charles and his wife Camilla, got a test for Civic -19 within hours of their arrival in Scotland, whilst nearly 700 NHS staff could not and they were forced to self isolate.

      Royalty really is an affront to society in my book. I’d hope an independent Scotland would shun such ruritaninan nonsense.

    196. A Person says:


      My comment was a bit unclear sorry. I’m certainly ashamed of Scottish participation in Britain’s imperial crimes. Let’s not kid ourselves, some of the nastiest figures in British imperial history have been ‘patriotic’ Scots (Jardine Mathewson, Earl Haig, even David Stirling, plus countless ordinary soldiers and merchants). But we tend (probably wrongly) to say this is ‘Scots being British’ rather than ‘Scottish history’. To put it another way, Robert Burns (not someone I’m into) was a rather unpleasant guy but I don’t see mainstream Scottish liberal opinion meekly accepting ‘cancelling’ him.

      I know it’s kind of off topic, but this insane Year Zero mentality terrifies me. It’s the exact same people that are behind the trans thing. If the SNP get behind it they’re onto plums.

    197. ahundredthidiot says:


      when I said ‘good’ politician, I meant ‘good’ as in that’s how they avoid being pinned down and ripped in the future. It’s a show we have all created.

      We get the politics we deserve.

      Re Ferguson – have you bothered to look at his track record?

    198. Republicofscotland says:

      Meanwhile NTS. President Neil Oliver, who called independence a cancer, and will shutdown our Bannockburn Attraction centre for two years, (possibly just in case we do have a indyref in-between) has said pulling down the statues of slave traders like Edward Colston is the first step to re-introducing the guillotine.

      Maybe we could have the SNP tricoteuse Sturgeon and her clique, sit around as proceeding took place. Incidentally if memory serves the last guillotine execution in France took place in 1977 I think the same year the film Star Wars hit the big screen.

      sacré bleu!

    199. wullie says:

      An old saying if memory serves. Do not visit the sins of the gathers upon the sons.

    200. wullie says:

      fathers fgs

    201. Breeks says:

      Sturgeon declares the Alex Salmond Conspiracy “nonsense”.

      The seems a fairly breathtaking assertion and denial of science given what we all know from the actual facts of the court case.

      She also seized hold of COV19 like a life-preserver.

      So much valuable time has been deliberately wasted and unrepeatable opportunity deliberately squandered on her watch, that I increasingly cannot be civil about Nicola Sturgeon.

      Increasingly, I feel the problem isn’t Sturgeon, but the toothless SNP membership who keep her in place as Scotland’s Constitutional strength is systematically dismantled. I suppose the vital corollary of ineffective leadership is a diffident herd of sheep ‘defiantly’ swallowing all the guff and gantin’ for more.

      The biggest lie they pedal is that we’re closer now to Independence than we ever have been, as they steer Scotland into full reverse in the opposite direction.

      What an absolute fkg mess.

      The Chagos Islanders have more constitutional nous than Scottish Independence Party celebrating 70 years of abject failure, 10 of which even spent in “government” with an open goal like Brexit dropped in it’s lap.

      Mind, if we played the Chagos Islands at football, there’s no guarantee we wouldn’t mbarrass ourselves there too.

    202. Fireproofjim says:

      Ryan Mack and Julia Gibb
      I agree wholeheartedly with you.
      I don’t see what the point is of the whole GRA Bill other than pleasing a handful of trans people at the risk of alienating thousands of potential supporters.
      I have emailed my MP and MSP to put this point and suggest that others should do this too.
      Perhaps a flood of protests will persuade a rethink.
      Meanwhile I also agree that there is absolutely no alternative to voting SNP if you want independence. A spoiled vote is no protest. Write to your MP and MSP instead but keep the big picture in mind.

    203. Scozzie says:

      Julia Gibb @ 10.48am
      I admire, in a way, those who choose to keep their membership to reform the party from within. But being honest, I just can’t see it having any success and not in the tight timeframe we need to affect change.

      I’m more of the opinion shock tactics will work much better and quicker to achieve results. I agree with whoever posed the suggestion in an earlier thread of a mass resignation of memberships to make them sit up and take notice.

      In the absence of billionaire backers, they need their membership cash more that any other party. And if they’ve frittered the independence fighting fund, healthy membership fees are even more important to fight the HR election.

      So while we have minimum influence within the party on their questionable policies and zero interest in delivering independence, we have maximum influence where it matters most – in their party pockets.

      Boycotts can work if well organised!

      That I feel would have much greater impact that any attempt to reform from within that will be road-blocked at every level – they party structure of gate-keepers will see to that.

      Nothing prevents everyone re-joining once we’ve seen a change of focus, policy and clear roadmap to delivering independence. Timing would be everything and a membership boycott would need to be done in 2020 to give time to re-group support provided the SNP did a 180 degree on their priorities.

      Failing that, I fear they will face a boycott of sorts at the ballot box much like 2017 GE – that was when I gave up on them and I have no compulsion to fund them until delivering independence is their top priority again.

    204. Bob Mack says:

      The! Young of today have more acceptance of the wrongs of our Imperialist last and the horrors which were seen as normal.

      Since Victorian times the spirit of Empire had to flourish due to incessant wars most notably WW1 and WW2.

      The population had to be “galvanised” to accept the losses and mayhem, and hence the greatness and superiority of the British race, especially in battle. It was deliberate propaganda to make others inferior.

      We have never really escaped from the myths of Empire. Perhaps this is an opportunity.

      We must first recognise we are descended from those who committed these acts. I did nothing, but my ancestors did.

      For that I have sorrow.

      Politicians find support in conflict. Remember the Falklands among others which furthered That woman’s popularity?. It was always so.

    205. Capella says:

      OT – say what you like about Erdogan but he knows how to get airports open again in a pandemic!

    206. Shug says:

      Who are the msps promoting GR

    207. Bob Mack says:

      Is there some type of “communal” communication that could be signed by all Wings readership highlighting our opposition.

      Well, at least those who do. I would gladly sign along with my SNP voting family.

      I think Twathater posted something about this but I cannot find it

    208. Ottomanboi says:

      In Arabic speaking countries citizens recognize the difference between the two sexes. No problem.
      The gender thing is just another example of perplexing western weirdness
      Currently, think there are more important national issues to be dealt with.
      Corona-dysfunction and the ongoing menace of predatory globalization being just two of them.
      What would Severus Snape have done with these gender jigglers?

    209. Fireproofjim says:

      If they are not promoting GRA they are certainly not opposing it as far as I am aware.

    210. Famous15 says:

      I am beginning to wonder if big pharma is going to make a fortune out of all the medication required sustain a woman in a man’s body or vice versa. Oops,sorry!

    211. Fireproofjim says:

      Sorry Shug not Snug

    212. Ron Maclean says:

      Perceptive article by Lesley Riddoch in today’s National.

      Interesting comment from Peter A Bell btl also on his blog

    213. Capella says:

      @ Shug – Shirley-Anne Somerville is the Minister responsible for steering the GRA reform through parliament.

    214. Julia Gibb says:


      I understand your anger/frustration but I cannot see how giving the SNP a bloody nose moves Independence forward.
      The branches and CAs are also a pointless route as are conferences. The NEC is ignored or worse manipulated.
      With people like Murrel and McCann controlling every part of the party structure progress to unseat them seems almost impossible.
      I am probably more angry and frustrated than most who voice their anger daily on here.
      Like many in the Party I search for a solution that does not damage the progress to Independence.

      The most effective at the moment is to cut your contribution to the minimum. Do not respond to pleas for financial help. Give them your vote but give the money to YES/Indy blogs/ AUOB etc. Keep the Holyrood political majority but starve them of the cash until they spend it on Independence.

      If you focus on kicking them out always remember the void will be filled by Unionists. I also agree with a list Indy Party. I don’t care if it is a one issue party like Brexit Party. In fact that is just the kind of Party we need on the list.

    215. Dave Hansell says:

      Alibi; 09:40

      “but honestly can’t see why so many are denying scientific reality.

      The article below should provide some insight into the context of where this issue is located – which shows (as this blog’s host has previously pointed out) the problem is not limited to this specific matter:

      To quote:

      ““My own interpretation is that lazy minds are happiest with the mere voicing of opinion, or with the easy task of dressing this up to make it look plausible. In modern literary criticism they have found the perfect model of this, along with a new doctrine of extreme relativism that says that everything is only opinion anyway, to justify it.” And, before we knew it, men became women, silence became violence and science became racist.”

      “For science – particularly STEM – is a reality-driven phenomenon, and it remains unclear if it can survive being anything different. A long time ago Nietzsche wrote that “There are no facts, only interpretations,” perhaps missing the invalidity of the statement. Today we bear witness to a new invalidity drawn from the same source, that of a science which puts subjective interpretation over objective fact.”

      The post-modernist mindset was probably best paraphrased in the quote attributed to Karl Rove from the GW Bush era. Where Rove (allegedly) compared those such himself and the circle in which he was a part who made up their own reality with those sneeringly referred to as “the reality based community.”

      This is why there is no due process worth a spit any more because objective evidence does not count in this ego driven childish mindset world. Its all about subjective opinion trumping everything and who can shout the loudest.

      Reality based Science, Enlightenment principles, and evidence based observation, inquiry and judgement are all being systematically undermined, attacked and jettisoned in favour of a mindless subjective mob mentality which has rejected the hard realities of adulthood for the comfort blanket of the nursery room cot under this pernicious ultra-individualist doctrine which calls itself “post-modernism.”

    216. Beaker says:

      @A Person says:
      11 June, 2020 at 11:20 am
      “My comment was a bit unclear sorry. I’m certainly ashamed of Scottish participation in Britain’s imperial crimes. Let’s not kid ourselves, some of the nastiest figures in British imperial history have been ‘patriotic’ Scots (Jardine Mathewson, Earl Haig, even David Stirling, plus countless ordinary soldiers and merchants). ”

      Not just Britain, all the main European powers went round the world for their imperial masters / mistresses. In fact, one of the worst is France. That country is the root cause of the Vietnam conflicts, not the USA, who simply fucked up and made things worse when they tried to take over the reins.

      @Julia Gibb says:
      11 June, 2020 at 12:23 pm
      “If you focus on kicking them out always remember the void will be filled by Unionists.”

      Unfortunately that is just what the SNP leadership is counting on. If there was a real danger of them being kicked out things would rapidly change. Policies only change for politicians if they themselves are threatened.

    217. Bob Mack says:

      @David Hansell,

      Then ultimately SNP members have to shout louder than that minority driving the agenda. I’m all for that.

    218. David says:

      The SNP are setting up a new selection test for potential new members.

      From today anyone found to have a backbone or, God forbid, balls, will be immediately refused membership.

      Only those who have none of the above will be allowed continued membership of the ultra secretive dictatorial Party.

    219. A Person says:

      David Hansell-

      I fully agree.

      In my experience, not to sound harsh, the loudest voices behind this pish are people who are thick as mince and virtually unemployable but who, thanks to our insane modern education policy, go to university where the insane ideas of the horrible Foucault are taught as fact in order to make jobs for the academics.

      The average person who goes straight into work after school has no time for this stuff and nor do the few highly educated people I know. It’s the numpties who think they’re smart.

      Because they have the time to dominate social media etc many think they represent popular opinion but the silent majority disagree.

      We should get these clowns away from the independence movement, they put people off.

    220. David says:

      Sturgeon really has lost the plot

      She has the power
      She has the cameras
      She has the microphones
      She has the stage

      Nicola is in heaven

      It’s all she ever dreamt of

      Having total control over policy, over speaches, over who will be in her top team.

      She has completely forgot about the people who put her there

      And more importantly, why they put her there

      Lights, Camera, Action, go Nicky!!!

    221. A Person says:


      Fully agree, particularly re: Vietnam. All European countries have done this stuff, although Britain did do it on the largest scale. Also Britain has never got it out of its system…

    222. mike cassidy says:

      People have no problem denying reality.

      Its the explanations they have to come up with to continually reinforce the denial which illuminate their headspace.

      eg How do you explain lunar eclipses if you think the earth is flat and the moon and sun just orbit the north pole.

      So how do transactivists deal with the grim reality of female genital mutilation.

      the practice of FGM does not target females, as “nobody knows your sex except how you express it as gender

    223. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Julia Gibb 12.23

      The question that has to be answered by those who continue to support the SNP as two aspects: 1) are we obliged to stick with the SNP irrespective of how strongly we disagree with a particular policy, and 2) is there a realistic prospect for those that elect to stay within the party of reforming it or changing its policy or general direction from within?

      As a former member who resigned over the party’s shameful treatment of Grouse Beater, it obvious to me that the answer to 2) above is “No chance”. I wish those who elect to stay well, but the past 18 months has shown that the party isn’t for turning. The Woko Haram militants are entrenched and untouchable because they enjoy the full support of the leadership, many of whom are true believers in the “There Is No Debate” school. In addition, the stodgy managerialist Growth Commission mindset will not allow any radical change of direction or policy on policies that actually matter. I’ve seen zero evidence that the party membership or activist base has the will, or the organisational power within the party bureaucracy, to effect any real change.

      The answer to 1) above is more complex, as people’s individual rationales and appetite for compromise will differ. I was so horrified by the treatment of Gareth Wardell that I felt I had no choice but to resign when my complaints went unheard. Things since then have, if anything, gotten worse: Neal Hanvey, Grace Brodie, Alex Salmond, the treatment of Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine, the failure to censure (still less actually expel) misogynistic woke bigots who abuse those supporting women’s rights, all serve to convince me that my decision to leave in November 2018 was right.

      There’s no way I could see myself campaigning shoulder to shoulder with people in my constituency party who fully supported the woke agenda, and were crowing about their ability to have people they disagreed with expelled. Other’s may be prepared to give the SNP the benefit of the doubt, and forgive all of these things because they believe independence trumps everything, and we have to “wheesht for indy” irrespective of the party’s policies or behaviour.

      I have to say in all honesty however that I don’t trust the current party hierarchy to give them that kind of blank cheque. I no longer believe the SNP can be rendered fit for purpose, or that it is safe to allow them untrammelled access to power: if we do, we can see where it is going to lead, and the kind of Scotland they will create. As Maya Angelou observed, when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

      I don’t like what I see of the kind of Scotland the current SNP leadership has in mind.

    224. Vivian O'Blivion says:

      Don’t really have any strong opinions on JKR.
      Correct on GRA, wrong on Indy, “correct” on Brexit (may be vulnerable to Indy conversion on this basis?).
      Never read a Harry Potter book. Never took in a Harry Potter movie. May be willing to reconsider the second if Werner Hertzog directed one (that could be fun).
      Caught the BBC adaptation of her detective novels. In one story a murder is disguised as a suicide by gas oven. The action takes place in the 1980s. Note to proof reader: suicide by gas oven hasn’t been possible since we converted from Town gas to North Sea gas in the early 70s.

    225. Julia Gibb says:

      @Andy Ellis

      I hear you! I understand your anger!

      What is your alternative though? We will stay in the Union. We will have a Tory/LibDem alliance ruling at Holyrood!
      That will teach them.

      I would love an alternative but FM Carlaw with deputy Rennie is not it.

    226. David says:

      I forgot to add, another “must have” before you even consider becoming a member of the SNP, is that you have to be:-

      “Really really fuckin nice”

      That is so important, and a must, before you even consider joining Nicky and the team at Bute House.

      Because the current SNP members consist of “really really really nice people”

      Just the way Nicola likes em’.

    227. Famous15 says:

      Alistair Jack SSFS says UK government have saved Scotland by paying for furlough.

    228. A Person says:

      Julia Gibb-

      I feel a bit queasy saying this but how different would Carlaw and Rennie actually be to Sturgeon and Swinney? We’d be nowhere near independence and there’s be no progressive policies like land reform. In other words a similar position.

      SNP are definitely better but the difference isn’t huge.

    229. David says:

      So just to sum up, to be a member of the SNP you must:

      Cut out your backbone
      Chop off your balls
      And be really really nice.

    230. tartanfever says:

      A.Person at 1.46

      That idea doesn’t hold up. Think about the things you currently enjoy that you wouldn’t have under today’s unionists – free prescriptions, bus passes, further education. Plus more spending per head on the NHS and Social Care than other parts of the UK. They may not be radically different but there is a clear, substantial policy difference.

    231. A Person says:

      You are correct, excuse me, I sometimes get a bit worked up!

    232. Joe says:

      Anyone who hasnt yet got it into their heads that this current incarnation of the SNP cannot be supported for any reason really needs to get themselves a history lesson. This isnt a game. You dont get to have your pet political biases over facts and not get held accountable on this one. This isnt just ‘unpopular policies’. The time for waking the fuck up (or growing up) is at hand

    233. Dave Hansell says:

      A person 1:18pm

      In terms of the section on Warwick University and Land in the 90’s this article provides a neat example of what you observe:

    234. Clapper57 says:

      @ Famous 15 @ 12.06pm

      Hi F15, Re your comments on big Pharma companies profiteering on this please remember Jo Swinson, the ousted MP and short term Lib Dem leader, accepted a donation of £100,000 for her party in 2019 from Ferring Pharmaceutical. Ferring market Triptorelin, one of the puberty blockers used in gender clinics (as Diphereline and Gonapeptyl).

      Jo stated that her party would introduce a a ‘X’ gender option on passports….of course stating this in the lead up to the 2019 GE….was in no way her being influenced via the donation she received from this Pharma company….said NO ONE bar the Lib Dems ………..and the minority who support them…..for reasons…

      BTW in Jo Swinson accepting donation from this particular Pharma company that markets ‘PUBERTY blockers in gender clinics’ it may also help in understanding why she tweeted this on 4 Dec 2019:

      “Require SCHOOLS to introduce gender-neutral uniform policies and break down outdated gender stereostypes of certain subjects”….

      Clue..puberty…schools…see the connection ?

      ( I changed word SCHOOLS to uppercase in her tweet to highlight my point but LEFT misspelling of word STEREOTYPES in her tweet…sure she was so desperate to tweet this and get THE message out that it was just a wee mistake..)….or as Jo likes to pronounce it WHEE mistake…in a kinda ‘lengthen your vowels add letters to a word’ way of speaking ….that she is infamous for….

      Also in 2019 she tweeted :

      “We will completely reform of the Gender Recognition Act, removing the requirement for medical reports, scrap the fee and recognise non-binary gender identities”.

      That above tweet was I assume to be acted upon when she became the next PM….(stops typing for a whee giggle)….or did the word ‘We’ represent her party and another party once again united…..with the Lib Dems self identifying as the gentle touch in contrast to the hardline Tories….

      I am AWARE Jo no longer relevant politically…unless she DOES decide to come back into politics via Holyrood… I am SURE she will receive the FINANCIAL backing….however if she does not then let’s listen out for Alex C Hamilton , Willie & co promoting and endorsing Gender R bill……and also see WHO finances THEM in lead up to Holyrood elections…..

      BTW Puberty blocking/suppression is another contentious argument both from a moral and physical perspective….but…Lib Dems…donations….and all that…..especially from a financial perspective is first consideration…. obvs

    235. CameronB Brodie says:

      A Person
      “….thanks to our insane modern education policy, go to university where the insane ideas of the horrible Foucault are taught as fact in order to make jobs for the academics.”

      Nice try, but I really don’t think you know what you are talking about. Do better. 😉

      Social Exclusion/Inclusion: Foucault’s analytics of exclusion, the political ecology of social inclusion and the legitimation of inclusive education

      This article offers a broad philosophical and historical background to the dyad of social exclusion/inclusion by examining the analytics and politics of exclusion first by reference to Michel Foucault who studies the modern history of exclusion and makes it central to his approach in understanding the development of modern institutions of emerging liberal societies.

      Second, it traces the political ecology (and etiology) of ‘social inclusion’ as a response to the crisis of the welfare state and the French Republican tradition of social solidarity initiated in France by Rene Lenoir and subsequently adopted as a fundamental principle for the European social model.

      Third, it provides a philosophical discussion of inclusive education that draws the distinction between the legal and moral legitimation of rights and questions the moral justifications (or the lack of them) offered for the right to inclusive education.

      social inclusion, exclusion, Foucault, inclusive education, children’s rights

    236. A Person says:

      Dave Hansell-

      Thank you, a very interesting and very distressing piece. As usual with fanatics, it looks like Land was essentially no use at being a traditional academic so he decided academia was corrupt and invented his own academia! Far left and far right always draw the same kind of maladjusted people.

    237. All this talk about these freaks of nature is a ploy to divert you away from concentrating about independence and it seems to have worked ??? I am sorry to say I don’t think we will ever gain our freedom with the present set up we will be forced to form an get it no matter how reluctantly after the 2014 ref., result a unionist friend sent me a sympathy card and wrote inside it For the one who wept when the dream ended ., but he was wrong the dream will never end it will go on alough he was right abou the wept bit

    238. CameronB Brodie says:

      A Person
      I see you.


    239. Effijy says:

      The Hootsmon and BBC stating that Scotland
      Has the world’s 3rd worst Covid Death ratios
      Per million of population?

      We should have produced our stats in exactly the same way
      As England which doesn’t declare the likely died as a result
      Of the virus.

      Bullet right through our own foot yet again.
      Success in UK politics is totally dependent on lies,
      Cover up and misinterpretation.

      You do need to fight fire with fire
      And it takes a thief to catch a thief.

      With independence we must have a constitution based
      On transparency, truth and justice but meantime we are
      Taking on very well drilled liars and cheats.

    240. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think it’s time for a little insight into the political nature of how social science is done.

      The Politics of Method in the Human Sciences: Positivism and Its Epistemological Others

    241. Russell says:

      Maybe the SNP trans activists should form their own independence list party.

      Scottish Sissies has a nice ring…

    242. dakk says:

      I can see a day soon when the british colony called Scotland votes in a Conservative devolved government in order to stop GRA self id.

      Only two years later for that new government to bring in gender self id, bought by big pharma.

      Then we will have the best of all possible worlds.

      Brexit,Trump,Johnson,Corona virus, great depression.

      An upside down world right enough.

    243. Vivian O'Blivion says:

      Effijy @14:33.
      Of the four component parts of the UK, Northern Ireland has the “best” per capita death rate for the pandemic. The one thing we know about the Northern Ireland Health Service is that it has by far the worst waiting times for elective but life extending operations and procedures in the UK. In short, the pandemic ain’t killing folk in NI ’cause the NI Health Service is getting there first.
      Scotland may have a “high” Covid mortality rate per capita precisely because we have benefited from a well run NHS.

    244. callmedave says:

      Today’s BBC figures for the colonies but no BBC numbers for England on the big Auntie web sites yet.

      N. Ireland……..01…….Total……539….BBC
      England……….*83…….Total… data..*SUN
      UK………… data…..Total…*41279…*SUN

      Update later once the WGov decide their version. 🙁

    245. Capella says:

      @ Effijy – re Scotsman scare story – this site used to do a lot of press analysis, pointing out the anti Scottish bias of the UK “assets” or “journalists” as they like to call themselves.

      But you can visit Prof John Robertson site Talking Up Scotland 2 for his sharp take down of the drivel that the MSM spew out daily.

      Stu seems to think that Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP are the darlings of the press nowadays. Dream on.

    246. callmedave says:

      Other virus news:

      Hundreds sent to Staffordshire care homes without tests


      From the SUN: “World beating app”


      It’s the first time the Government has released figures about the programme.

      Now the head of the system has admitted it’s not “gold standard” after it was revealed that a third of people who tested positive for coronavirus could not be reached by officials or failed to provide details of their contacts.

      Some 8,117 people who tested positive for Covid-19 in England had their case transferred to the NHS system, of whom 5,407 – 67 per cent – were reached.

      That means 2,710 – 33 per cent – did not provide information about their contacts or could not be reached.

      Baroness Harding, the head of the programme, admitted improvements were needed but said the system was “fit for purpose”.

      “We are not at the gold standard yet that we want to be, of isolating all contacts within 48 hours of someone requesting a test,” Lady Harding said.

      “But you can absolutely see the path of how we are going to get there.”

    247. ahundredthidiot says:


      Only in a World this crazy can a flu be sold as a pandemic.

      You seem invested – If you are going to keep this pish alive, expect kickback.

      Instead of your daily dribbling on the scores on the boards, why don’t you get out in the sun, take a walk, hug a family member, be human. Or feel free to live out your life in fear, wetting the bed every time the flu gets mentioned, just don’t expect me to do likewise.

    248. callmedave says:


      Done all that stuff.

      This all started with the BBC not reporting all the figs.
      Same story today as always. It’s about more than numbers its about BBC.

      Then later the WMGov bring out their dead late afternoon and mix it in with the other totals.

      Plenty room for other things on the thread too.

      Fill your boots!

    249. ahundredthidiot says:

      A Person

      You’d probably find 90% of the idiots who subscribe to GRA, BLM, Hate Crime Laws all have ‘diddy degrees’

      These people are not only stupid because their degree is pointless, but they also end up in massive debt to fund Universities, which are effectively just one big ponzi scheme to keep even more useless people in work. They just ‘think’ they’re smart because a money making outfit let them put a few letters after their name – how nice….now, pour my fucking coffee!

      And some people never leave! – I think the pleb Jim Murphy did something ridiculous like 9 years at Uni – mans a waste of space.

      We have an idiot like that on here – clearly doesn’t have a real job so bores (anyone who reads his posts) to death with his stupit links!

    250. Julia Gibb says:

      I’ve read through all the latest insults to SNP members. I’ve read once again how useless the Scottish Government is.
      I have yet to read one solid suggestion on the way forward.
      It is getting harder and harder to tell the difference between the Unionist Trolls on here and the “so called” champions of Independence.

      I want Independence.
      I don’t care what the makeup of Holyrood is post Independence ( it will be whatever Scotland wants)
      I would like to see Independence in my lifetime (doesn’t leave a lot of time)

      So tell me what my alternatives are. Leaving the SNP, not voting etc are not alternatives. That is moaning, griping. Listing their failures is the same story.

      You all appear to have perfect clarity on what we shouldn’t do. Does anyone have ONE suggestion on how to gain Independence without a political party winning seats. (Please don’t give me another lecture about not using mandates they already have – I said ALTERNATIVE plan)

      Do any of the rock throwers every pause to consider the fact they now label all the activists who have worked for decades for Independence as the enemy!

    251. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Julia Gibb 1.35pm

      I’d prefer the SNP to change course (or for the remaining adults in the party preferably led by Joanna Cherry) to make it fit for purpose.

      Sadly I think that’s unlikely any time soon, so if that’s not an option I’d like to see a list only party (NOT the Scottish Greens tho’!) win a decent number of seats @ Holyrood in 2021. With luck they’d hold the balance of power, but again that isn’t looking too likely.

      Assuming the SNP or SNP/Greens keep their majority post 2021, I don’t see them making any progress, because unless the current leadership is changed, they will obediently accept that Westminster has to “allow” us to vote. So realistically we are probably saying goodbye to #indyref2 until 2025 at the earliest, but probably 2029/30.

      Given what we’ve seen of SNP policies and actions in the last 5 years, I’m honestly not sure I’d swap the current situation for an independent Scotland led by Sturgeon and her current team initiating GRA, the new hate crimes legislation and the output of the Growth Commission. If that’s your idea of the early days of a better nation have at it…..but you can count me out.

    252. ahundredthidiot says:

      Julia Gibb

      Have you considered that there is not a single Unionist Tr*ll on here?

      We have enough paranoid twits without adding you – Unionists are winning, probably will be for some time, so, a bit of Sport aside, why on earth would they tr*ll us?

    253. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Julia Gibb 3.45pm

      I’m losing patience with you now, sorry.

      The SNP doesn’t have a divine right to out support or our votes. It has to earn both.

      All it’s earning recently is my contempt.

      Stu Campbell and others including Wee Ginger Dug and even my humble self have been pointing out for quite some time what the obvious alternatives are, so either you’re just not listening, or your just not very well informed: neither is a particularly good look!

      For the benefit of the hard of thinking therefore, here are the obvious alternative steps which should already have been taken and/or should still be taken:

      1) gain legal certainty on the status of a referendum without a S30 Order from Westminster.

      2) make it crystal clear to Westminster that if the 2012 Edinburgh Agreement & 2014 #indyref1 precedents are not adhered to with respect to #indyref2, ALL subsequent Westminster and Holyrood elections will be regarded as plebiscitary, with >50% of votes for pro-indy parties being regarded as de-facto independence.

      Neither of these steps are rocket science. All they need to do is have the balls to take them.

      The question for SNP members in particular, but the broader movement as a whole too, is what’s stopping us doing it?

    254. ahundredthidiot says:

      Julia Gibb

      sorry, forgot to add, the SNP are just pish right now and need a bloody good shake!

      this Site could actually achieve that by it’s popularity alone.

      They all read it, you know…..

    255. Capella says:

      @ Effijy – re the Scotsman scare story again – if you go to Prof Robertson’s site there’s an article on Tom Gordon’s lying propaganda. One of the BTL comments deals specifically with the Scotsman story which was written by Brian Menieth – not a fan of the SNP. Debunks it pretty comprehensively.

    256. Capella says:

      @ Andy Ellis – As an SNP member I would ask – what makes you think the SNP haven’t already done that?

    257. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Capella 4.02pm

      Done what? All I’ve seen them do for the past 5 years is sit on their hands.

    258. Republicofscotland says:

      This is back on the radar, and of course let’s not forget that Johnson sees Scots as vermin to be exterminated.

      “FOOTAGE of Tories laughing at an MP’s joke about sending Scots to the “colonies” as slaves has resurfaced on social media.”

      “The 2015 clip of Lucy Frazer suggesting transporting Scots as slaves could be the answer to the West Lothian Question was unsurfaced amid public debate over Britain’s involvement in the slave trade.”

    259. Gary45% says:

      A wee O/T.
      Anyone recommend a donkey sanctuary based in Scotland?
      Our monthly DDs to the SNP will be going somewhere else soon.
      Once the new Indy party is in motion,2 DDs will go there and another to maybe a donkey sanctuary.

    260. Capella says:

      @ Andy Ellis – All I’ve seen them do for the past 5 years is sit on their hands. Really?

      You told Julia Gibb and the “hard of thinking” that the obvious steps are:

      1) gain legal certainty on the status of a referendum without a S30 Order from Westminster.

      2) make it crystal clear to Westminster that if the 2012 Edinburgh Agreement & 2014 #indyref1 precedents are not adhered to with respect to #indyref2, ALL subsequent Westminster and Holyrood elections will be regarded as plebiscitary, with >50% of votes for pro-indy parties being regarded as de-facto independence.

      I wonder how you know that the SNP haven’t already clarified the legal status of a S30 order and also haven’t told Westminster that they will use plebiscites if necessary?

      Perhaps they haven’t. But I don’t know.

    261. Anagach says:

      The price of staying in the Union can also be the sacrifice of reality, science, language and freedom.

      The Gender Wars like nearly all other policies are not dictated by Independence.

    262. Andy Ellis says:

      @Capella 4.40pm

      What would the SNP’s rationale be for keeping it secret?

      Let’s assume your woo-woo theory is correct and they HAVE done both. In the event the legal opinion in question 1) was that Holyrood did indeed require a S30 Order, then surely they’d have at least begun to think it might be wise to have a Plan B. Thus far they have not only failed to do this, they have actively briefed AGAINST having a Plan B. If, on the other hand, they had been advised that we didn’t need a S30 Order…….where’s our referendum?!

      On question 2) the party has resolutely set its face against any Plan B. The sheeple at SNP conference actually booed the idea.

      If it makes you feel better to believe that the SNP may actually have done these things in private for some reason, but seen fit not to share the results with the great unwashed amongst the membership and electorate, then I can’t really help you further. I do however have some magic beans you might be interested in for a very reasonable price….?

    263. Allium says:

      I would dearly like to know who introduced the SNP to the Yogyakarta Principles on trans rights. These obscure and sometimes sinister ideas are nowhere near the mainstream. Even the most woolly headed Lib Dem wouldn’t stumbled across them unaided. Its very strange indeed.

    264. CameronB Brodie says:

      Amrou Al-Kadhi would appear to be a total diddy.

      Knowledge for a Common World? On the Place of Feminist Epistemology in Philosophy of Education

    265. CameronB Brodie says:

      There are a number of folk posting btl, who are claiming knowledge they either clearly lack, or who poses knowledge but are hostile to the principle of equality. There are others who appear unable to appreciate the difference between egotism and genuine support.

      Feminism and Empowerment: A Critical Reading of Foucault

    266. mike cassidy says:

      Armitage Shanks

      Flushed that right in to the archive for you.

      And I’ll add this beauty.

      JK Rowling trans row: School renames house over trans tweets

    267. Famous15 says:

      I have just read a Tweet from Rhianna Speare criticising JKRowling but boastfully saying she would not repeat what JKR had said.

      How can WE know what a very recently made influential person like Speare is finding wrong with someones comment if she does not tell us.

      It made me as angry as I felt at those who deny a platform at university debates to those with views who question the GRA and such.

      Debate is healthy,denial of debate is as dysfunctional as ,you choose.

    268. robert graham says:

      Listening to the daily spot the fkn Liar compilation . just now we have a well spoken fkn idiot attempting to convince the public that she is doing wonderfully well , everyone and their bloody dug knows it’s shit , I wonder exactly what the qualifications this Tory bint has in order to competently run a pretty technical system a basic knowledge of requirements would be advantageous , not just being a cheerleader for a Tory government , but that would be stupid wouldn’t it ,
      Cue Tory party No 1 in the stupid stakes , without a doubt these hunts are on a totally different level

    269. callmedave says:

      Further on from earlier:
      An hour after the official figures released.

      From the BBC ‘England’ Corona Virus web site (rolling news blog)
      For England…England. Got it now.

      The three colonies also have their corona virus update sites which always have the numbers posted.
      Coronavirus deaths and tests: Thursday update

      The Department of Health and Social Care said 41,279 people had died in hospitals, care homes and the wider community after testing positive for coronavirus in the UK as of 17:00 on Wednesday, up by 151 from 41,128 the day before.

      Government figures do not include all deaths involving Covid-19 across the UK, which is thought to have passed 52,000.
      The BBC may say what the number for England is on tv or put it on the red scrolly thing on the bottom of the screen BUT they never actually write it down on their ‘England’ web site.

      Funny that! Init.

    270. robert graham says:

      I always thought Dido was a singer , apparently this Tory Dido is also a Expert in Virus transmission as well as a Bluetooth and mobile phone compatibility genius , fk me this Tory lot are blessed with astonishingly diverse talent , we are blessed aren’t we hip hip .
      Total shit

    271. Effijy says:

      Many Thanks for the kink Capella.

      We are endeared to Prof John Robertson for his expertise
      and resilience in exposing the corruption spewing from Westminster
      and it’s puppet media.

    272. Julia Gibb says:

      @Andy Ellis

      Who is that is going to get the S30 and let Westminster know. Once again we have the “let me tell you” speech.

      You have written the stages. Now tell me the process. Who will do those things – YOU? Will you have the Authority? Who will you contact?

      We all know the stages. My original question stands – WHO will do it?
      I know you are angry but to ditch a political party you need an alternative. Wings is a quality blog but it has no negotiative authority. Even if they (?) formed a List a Party it is only the start of a journey. A dozen seats will not have Westminster rolling over.

      question – who will do those things you state so easily?

    273. Albaman says:

      Seems to me that this is no longer the website I started to read, and occasionally contributed to way back in 2012.

    274. Republicofscotland says:

      This is what happens when you let another country control your borders.

      “PUBLIC health expert Devi Sridhar has voiced concern over the news that thousands of cars are crossing into Scotland every day from the north of England, where the Covid-19 infection rate is rising.”

    275. twathater says:

      @ Julia Gibb , Scozzie , Bob Mack and others interested Dan has outlined it up thread and I asked Stuart yesterday to devote a post in an attempt to garner how many people would be interested in signing a protest form to DEMAND AND THREATEN the SNP that if WE are not listened to their hegemony and cushy numbers are gone if we got sufficient numbers we could roll it out over other blogs and social media

      Julia Gibb I am NOT a member but I and my family are voters , I have pleaded with SNP members on here and other blogs to take back control of the party ,but as you point out members have tried and are ignored , collectively if we could garner 200,000 signatures STATING CATEGORICALLY that we individuals will NOT vote SNP at ANY forthcoming elections , UNTIL AND UNLESS NS states categorically and in writing that the next HR election will be fought on a PLEBISCITE for independence with the immediate suspension of the union and the GRA BILL and the HATE CRIME BILL will be halted until after independence

      If enough people signed surely they would HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION as their jobs are threatened , also the publicity would shake the TREE , and the good thing about it would be that even if any yoonionist added their vote it would only add to the numbers demanding change

      Please read respond and support we ALL want the same thing independence for Scotland

    276. Bob Mack says:

      Seems to me the website has never changed its goal, but the party it supported has.

    277. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Julia Gibb 5.55pm

      All the evidence suggest it’s not going to be the SNP that pushes the S30 Order question doesn’t it? They could have put the matter beyond legal doubt at any point over the past 5 years. How’s that worked out?

      I’m not going to do it as an individual, no. I’m just some guy on the internet. From memory there is a current legal case being brought: strange that the SNP didn’t do it first though, don’t you think? Why is that? Lack of Courage? Political timidity? Laziness? I’m all ears!

      I hope there is a credible list only party. I’m not sure Collette Walker’s ISP is it, but who knows? A WoS party would have more “legs” in my humble opinion, but not sure Stu is going to pull the trigger. I have my doubts that absent some big hitter like Salmond or Cherry it would make much difference at this stage. Perhaps we just have to hope the SNP DO manage to get an outright majority @ HR2021, though I have my doubts. Even if they do, do you think they’d do anything constructive with it, other than do a Pete Wishart and insist Boris will magically give us what we want when he sees the size of our irresistible umpteenth mandate?

      Announcing that future elections will be regarded as plebiscitary is something the SNP will have to do in my scenario. Obviously, I won’t be holding my breath.

    278. Julia Gibb says:


      I don’t disagree but I don’t yet see the process nor do I see what happens post submission of signatures. I see the nuclear option that ends with the Union intact.

    279. CameronB Brodie says:

      Any party that get behind TWAW, is clearly ignorant of the role that a legally defensible identity plays in determining one’s access to justice. So the current SNP appear totally unprepared to defend Scotland from authoritarian English nationalism.

      International Journal of Constitutional Law, Volume 14, Issue 4, 1 October 2016, Pages 914–924
      Constituent power, boundaries and identity: On the justificatory depth of constitutionalism – A rejoinder to Neil Walker

    280. Andy Ellis says:

      @twathater 6.01pm

      I’m not sure the SNP’s total indifference to the many, many members who have complained and often left the party lends much support to your view that they’d have to listen. you can’t argue with extremists who insist “There Is No Debate”.

      For whatever reason, the TRA extremists are entrenched in the party. Although they represent a minority, they are obviously untouchable and given free rein by the leadership to abuse and hound those they disagree with like Joanna cherry and Joan McAlpine.

      Sometimes the game just isn’t worth the candle. There are many great folk in the SNP, but also some real pieces of work. I tip my hat to those with strong enough stomachs to remain in the party and fight from the inside.

      It seems to me the only way to really get them to sit up and take notice is a new party, not petitions or earnest appeals for them to change course or rein in the Woke Stasi. All the evidence suggests that ship sailed long since.

    281. Dan says:

      @Julia Gibb at 6:08 pm

      Here follows a process to make and impression on an organisation that fails to listen or respond to a large number of its activists or members:
      A template is created with a message.
      All the people that agree with the message copy the text into an email.
      Emails are then sent to the organisation on a specific day.
      The high volume sent makes it very obvious to the organisation they need to address the situation.

      Alternatively just keep pissing in the wind as a solitary individual.


    282. liz says:

      Did you hear the latest – call me boring says NS but she will not be drawn on when pubs can reopen.

      The woman is a Calvinistic dictator.
      The number of cases drops daily and she is dictating to people when they will be allowed to socialise, she needs to reign in her control freakery.

    283. mike cassidy says:


      Did you all know we contributed to the end of slavery?

      ..anyone who paid any tax at all before February 1, 2015 was paying off the debt created from the millions paid to British slave owners in 1833

    284. CameronB Brodie says:

      Government can’t be democratic, effective, or accountable, if it does not remain coherent with the requirements of “bounded rationality”. Law that endorses the opinion that TWAW, clearly does not meet these requirements. Law that is not rational can not be considered compatible with the principle of universality. Simples.

      Full text.

      Rationality and bounded rationality: you can’t have one without the other

      This article compares and contrasts the various perspectives on rationality and bounded rationality, and in doing so, advances two claims. The central one is that the definition of rationality depends on bounded rationality. This is reminiscent of debates in philosophy concerning the definition of concepts in terms of their opposites, which has led to efforts to destabilise dichotomies. In addition, as argued in this article, there is a related connection between the (bounded) rationality of economists and the agents they study.

      Rationality, bounded rationality, economists, agents

    285. Ottomanboi says:

      Plainly, judging by planetary events this year, the lunatics are in charge of the so called democratic west and its sad little national leaders are in their thrall.
      Something needs to be torn down and it isn’t statuary.

    286. CameronB Brodie says:

      Rather apt this one.

      Bounded Rationality, Institutions, and Uncertainty

    287. twathater says:

      @ Dan thanks for that , what I was asking Stu to do was devote a post asking readers if they would support that statement of intent , no comments required just the addition of your name or moniker and depending on the numbers we could post the LINK on other blogs , twatter , faceplook and any other place , we then could either collate an online petition or if Stuart was willing he could have a proper pro forma made up where we could add our names and addresses and submit it electronically to NS directly , Time is of the essence but if done correctly I do believe it would work

      Nicola would then have the choice to either believe we are serious or take her chances , either way we would then know her intent , but we have to get the numbers to FORCE their hand , as it stands we are ALL getting frustrated with the inaction and stupidity

    288. frogesque says:

      @Liz : 6.23

      If opening pubs over the safety of children, their education, vulnerable and elderly is your priority then you ‘realy’ need to look at your lifestyle.

      There are other ways to socialise.

    289. callmedave says:

      Seems too many folk are not responding to the ‘world beating’ app for England. When contacted 15% (4809) of those contacted do not respond.

      Hancock says “It’s their civic duty to do so”

      But the WMGov reduced the status of the Covid-19 removing it’s ‘high risk’ status. link attached.

      Many commented on this at the time on this blog.

      The SGov in February 2020 had made this Covid-19 a notifiable disease just a few days before.

      But later followed the WMGov recommendation to relegate it.

      So it is a ‘civic duty’ as Hancock says but not the law to self declare it.


      England test and trace system identifies 31,000 contacts

    290. terence callachan says:

      So …

      All those on here who say they are not going to vote SNP…

      Who are you going to vote for ?

      Whatever alternative you decide on …..will NOT be a party that gets you Scottish independence

      Next question……so why pretend you want Scottish independence

    291. terence callachan says:

      Liz… you really are stupid ….I thought ass much

    292. A Person says:


      A lot of people rely on pubs for their livelihood, directly or indirectly. Also, why shouldn’t people go the pub if it’s safe to do so?

      If it’s safe to open schools it’s probably safe to open pubs- it doesn’t have to be either or!

      I accept the need for lockdown, and have followed the rules, but we mustn’t keep it going just for the sake of it.

    293. terence callachan says:

      Andy Ellis … may be in a minority

      There certainly is not a majority of all the SNP voters visiting this site and agreeing with you

      So how do you manage to claim that you talk for the majority ?

    294. terence callachan says:

      A Person ….don’t be stupid , comparing schools with pubs

      Pubs will be opened when it’s safe to do so

      and it will not be you that decides that it’s safer to do so

      Experts will evaluate and decide

    295. dakk says:

      Wings and SNP are still both pro indy imo.

      It’s all beginning to sound very conditional,however.

      Both from SNP and Wings.

      I am thankful however for some of the ideas put forward upthread on the protest form/email.

      Not currently a member of SNP but would rejoin if it would help the membership protest.

    296. A Person says:

      Yes, that’s why I said “if it’s safe to do so”. We should reopen them as soon as possible due to their economic importance and cultural role, but obviously only when that is safe.

    297. A Person says:

      I am a member where is the form?

    298. dakk says:

      A Person

      There is no form.

      Just people suggesting one at the moment.

    299. Andy Ellis says:

      @terence 7.15pm

      I’m not claiming to speak for them. I very much doubt I am in the minority, but who knows? It’s possible that the majority of SNP members are fully woke and on-side with the party’s Wokus Dei, but I have my doubts.

      Polling of the electorate as whole suggests the TWAW thing is crushingly unpopular, but it doesn’t seem to have made much of an impact on their general popularity yet. That might change, but it might not. I’m not sure how many % the SNP and broader movement is prepared to lose on this issue. Even if it’s only 1 or 2% is it a risk we’re prepared to take?

      The fact that contributors BTL here include lots of SNP loyalists doesn’t tell us very much, any more than the appearance of more than a few alt-right nutters does.

    300. Kenny says:

      I think JK Rowling wrote a very well considered and thoughtful article. To pay her a compliment, I honestly thought, when I first read it, that it had been penned by the Rev Stu!

      I know she is a writer by trade of course (by the way, her books are not in my style, I disagree with her over indy and Labour, but everyone deserves to be heard with respect).

      JK Rowling was writing lovely comments to kids who had made illustrations, then posted on social media. Woke people were adding comments calling her a TERF!

      The thing is, in an indy Scotland, JK Rowling would be a wonderful ambassador for our country. I do not know why she does not want this part of the world to be able to formulate its own policies.

      Rather like Nicola Sturgeon, only there is something not quite right there… JK Rowling – such is her beliefs. But NS is a professional politician and I think she is a stirrer up of trouble. She creates discord where there is no discord. What exactly is her game?

      For around five years, I have observed her pushing minority interests and views and complete one-sided decisions in a way that seems deliberately intended to arouse rancour among people. She pretends (very much so!) that she is the first minister for all Scotland, for all people. But I think she protests too much about this! Why?

      She shouted “no more Tories” during the indyref campaign. But that was not the aim (will an indy Scotland have NO right-wing parties?!? unique among democratic nations?). Yet she has shown she likes Kissinger, Hillary, Campbell. Are they not “tories”? She supported Hillary because she was a woman, but there was another left-wing woman in the presidential race whom she ignored (Stein).

      The GRA issue is the latest madness in which she actively seeks to stir up trouble. Plants have male and female parts, for crying out loud, they cannot change it! She is not well read or knowledgeable at all. The whole “she misgendered me” rubbish, which NS treats like the Battle of Bannockburn, does not even work outside English. Go to Germany and if you are the king or emperor, you are referred to as “she” [because Maejestat is feminine].

      The whole Leslie Evans saga and what is currently being raised surrounding the Alex Salmond case makes her position absolutely untenable. It is clear she is dragging out the Coronavirus crisis. The fact alone that the SNP sat on the Salmond “evidence”, before you even get into the other aspects of the case, is (in my view) grounds for resignation.

      Regardless of where you stand on Brexit or indy, surely in a democracy we SHOULD have had a referendum following the events of 2016? For democratic consultation purposes alone, regardless of the outcome?

      Anyway, I was very impressed with the tone of JK Rowling’s essay and I am very sorry for her that she suffered from domestic abuse, even though that was just a small part of the whole piece. Unlike the SNP “there is no debate” approach, Rowling has written a very thoughtful piece. NS, on the other hand, is more Thatcherite than Thatcher in the way she refuses any debate on GRA and other issues.

    301. Dan says:

      @terence callachan at 7:47 pm

      If the SNP can be influenced by a significant protest which results in them producing a manifesto for next year’s Holyrood election that we agree with, then we won’t be voting for anybody else.
      But if they’re just gonna be Indy shy and peel off the “Stop Brexit” stickers and re-decal up with “Throwing Women’s’ Hard Fought For Rights Under This Bus” then we’ll at least know where we stand.

      I thought the whole concept of Scotland being Independent once again was that we’d actually have a Government and policies we primarily voted them into power to enact. Not some fudge of ignoring the wishes of the electorate and doing their own thing.

    302. Kenny says:

      Terence callachan says:
      11 June, 2020 at 7:47 pm
      All those on here who say they are not going to vote SNP…
      Who are you going to vote for ?

      My vote is precious. At the moment, I would absolutely refuse to give it to the SNP or any of the three parties financed outside Scotland.

      I would prefer to vote for a pro-indy party, I like Solidarity very much. The SSP are good on currency and social justice. Otherwise, I would rather not vote. I would feel wrong voting for SNP with their present policies. In the list vote, obviously I hope there will be a new party. But I would still vote for Solidarity, because a vote is never wasted as long as it is a positive choice.

    303. A Person says:


      I will keep my eyes peeled, hopefully around 20% of SNP members could sign, that kind of figure would need to be listened to (well, we’ll see…)

    304. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 7.47

      “If the SNP can be influenced”……..not seeing it, sorry!

    305. Old Pete says:

      Well said terence, couldn’t agree with you more.
      I thought this site was for supporting and supporters of Scottish Independence, seems to have turned into an Anti-Transgender, anti-Nicola Sturgeon and now an anti-SNP site.

      Divide and conquer has always been the English way to dominate and control its “Empire”, always ably abetted by members of those subject nations.

      Destroying the SNP will not gain us Independence. Voting for some daft “Wings” party won’t gain us Independence, if anything it could lose us any chance of achieving it.

      Sadly this site has lost its way and is being directed down many cul-de-sacs none of which have anything to do with Scottish Independence

    306. Dan says:

      @ Andy Ellis at 8:30 pm

      Aye, it’s a long shot but it might just work… 🙂

      But if it gets no traction at least we’ll know what we are dealing with and can make our choices from a better informed position.

    307. Dan says:

      @Old Pete

      Do you think some of the SNP individuals featured in the following linked article are a help or hindrance to furthering the chances of Scotland regaining our Independence?

    308. CameronB Brodie says:

      Old Pete
      Sorry, but some of us understand the law and know when our government and judiciary are taking the piss.

      Moral Satisficing: Rethinking Moral Behavior as Bounded Rationality

      What is the nature of moral behavior? According to the study of bounded rationality, it results not from character traits or rational deliberation alone, but from the interplay between mind and environment. In this view, moral behavior is based on pragmatic social heuristics rather than moral rules or maximization principles. These social heuristics are not good or bad per se, but solely in relation to the environments in which they are used.

      This has methodological implications for the study of morality: Behavior needs to be studied in social groups as well as in isolation, in natural environments as well as in labs. It also has implications for moral policy: Only by accepting the fact that behavior is a function of both mind and environmental structures can realistic prescriptive means of achieving moral goals be developed.

      Moral behavior; Social heuristics; Bounded rationality

    309. dakk says:

      The conditionality coming through on Wings is just another version of too wee too poor too stupid.

      Let the big boys in London decide for us.

      If I don’t like a policy or two from the incumbent Scot gov, then I want England to take decisions for Scotland.

      That prevalent attitude is why Scotland is still a colony.

      Scots. Eh?

      Whas like us?

      Damn few, and thry’re a’ fucked.

    310. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Old Pete at 8:31 pm.

      You typed,
      “I thought this site was for supporting and supporters of Scottish Independence, seems to have turned into an Anti-Transgender, anti-Nicola Sturgeon and now an anti-SNP site.”

      I’ll only address one part of your comment. “Anti-Transgender”.

      I read all the comments, every day (OK, I speed read through some of them) and I don’t THINK I’ve read an “Anti-Transgender” comment.

      I have read a lot of comments that express disagreement with the concept of “self-ID” but no actual “Anti-Transgender” comments.

      Disagreement with some of the the proposed terms of the Gender Recognition Bill does not amount to “Anti-Transgender”.

    311. Ian Brotherhood says:

      I’m really sorry if this offends anyone, but I can’t watch this clip and make myself believe that I’d trust this person to pop in and feed the cat when I’m on holiday.

      Five, six years ago, I’d have walked across hot coals for NS. Now, I wouldn’t give her the time of day.

      Watching the clip with the sound off (because the speaker lead wasn’t in) was bad enough, but listening to what she actually said about her non-response to AS’s acquittal made it even worse.

      I simply don’t trust this person and am becoming increasingly suspicious of people who say they do.

    312. Bob Mack says:

      So, some people want independence ,but not without cost. It appears an acceptable cost to let women lose their protection and access to safe spaces. Perhaps you should ask yourself why these things were put there in the first place?I

      We are watching the world rage about equality, and yet seem happy enough to let females have less rights and protections than others. We remove their rights for expediency. What if they are disadvantaged vote SNP. What if women tell us it’s not ok Vote SNP.

      What is the incentive for women to lived in a country which has clear visions of removing every protection they have fought for over the last hundred years. What is the incentive?

      The very fact you can suggest that to women states more about your own outlook than the posters who support them on this site.

    313. robertknight says:

      Old Pete @ 8:31

      “I thought this site was for supporting and supporters of Scottish Independence”

      What makes you think it’s not? I support Scottish Independence. I do not support NS or the current SNP leadership in their placing Indy a distant second to demands of the Woke Mafia.

      “seems to have turned into an Anti-Transgender, anti-Nicola Sturgeon and now an anti-SNP site”

      Anti-Trans is not the same as Anti-GRA. The GRA is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and has numerous unintended consequences which the Scottish Government are deliberately blind to.

      NS is taking the SNP in a direction which I consider is counter to achieving Independence. As a former member, activist, campaigner and candidate, I’ve earned the right to criticise the SNP… I didn’t leave the SNP – the SNP left me!

      As a supporter of Indy, who is not a fan of the current SNP leadership, I feel comfortable visiting this site and contributing to BTL.

      If you’re not comfortable Pete, I suggest you adjust your online browsing habits.

    314. Beaker says:

      @Julia Gibb says:
      11 June, 2020 at 3:45 pm
      “I’ve read through all the latest insults to SNP members. I’ve read once again how useless the Scottish Government is.
      I have yet to read one solid suggestion on the way forward.”

      I’ll have a go.

      Being sensible:
      New leadership (ie J Cherry).

      Now for the extreme:
      The SNP need a period in opposition. Not the favoured option believe me, but if there was a genuine threat it just might focus the minds of the leadership for once.

      I’ve had a long day in front of spreadsheets…

    315. @terence callachan says:
      11 June, 2020 at 7:47 pm

      So …

      All those on here who say they are not going to vote SNP…

      Who are you going to vote for ?

      Whatever alternative you decide on …..will NOT be a party that gets you Scottish independence

      Next question……so why pretend you want Scottish independence

      That ones as old as the hills as the current leadership and I use that term loosley has no intention of fighting for independence just now as self promotion is the name of the game. I won’t be voting next election except for someone who opposes this GRA nonsense and puts Independence at the top of its manifesto.

      I suspect you are hoping to be called Terry in the not too distant future by your posts.

    316. Baxter1967 says:

      Terrence Callaghan said: Laws that put men and women in prison for being gay were touted as necessary just a few decades ago and when they were challenged and confined to the dustbin there was similar outrage from people worried that we would all be at risk.

      I say
      Problem with GRA is which men go to a woman’s prison and which woman to a men’s. Which men to a woman’s ward and which woman to a male ward. Which men to hang about in a woman’s to toilet and which woman to a men’s.

      People who actually physically transition not the problem. Problem is this lunatic legislation will cause an explosion in men presenting as woman for ( not all cases granted but enough to cause mayhem ) manipulative reasons.

    317. Al-Stuart says:

      I wonder if JK Rowling is on the journey from YES to NO?

      Quite a few others have changed their minds and that is before the UNTOUCHABLE Sturgeonite McWoke fifth column Delilahs took over.

      I bet £100 that we are looking at either a WHOLESALE CLEAROUT of the toxic TRA (closet 77th) Brigade..


      A new alternative to the SNP will be registered with the Electoral Commission. Likely immediately after publication of Alex Salmond’s forensic account detaiking the turgid backstabbing excrement festival that has been the hallmark of branch manager Sturgeon from the day Alex Salmond handed her a party that was capable of being made FIT for IndyRef2.

      SIX mandates for IndyRef2 later, Nocola is preparing to march everyone to the top of the hill. AGAIN. Another mandate for IndyRef2 and she will really do something this time.

      Aye right.

      The only thing about the 2021 election with Sturgeon asking for a SEVENTH mandate is that 7 is her lucky number (77th Brigade sleeper).

      Nope, my money’s on Alex Salmond.

      He has never let us down yet.

      Alex will either figure out a way of rescuing the SNP and likely seeking Joanna Cherry and other non Wokeists get a grip of the old, traditional SNP.

      Or we will have SNP2. Something akin to a party name of the: SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE PARTY. Guaranteed. No ifs, no buts and no Wokeists gerrymandering of the justice system.

      In those circumstances I know of severel big hitters that would have their cheque books out. Alex may choose not to lead again, possibly supporting Joanna Cherry. The jury is out on that. But…

      As the greatest first minister that Scotland has ever had said…

      “You’ve no seen the last of my bunnets and me”

      I may not know that much, but am pretty certain Alex Salmond has three years of anger at the injustice to his family, the false rap-e claims and the destruction of his political legacy that has his typewriter furiously putting many true words on paper. Right now.

      Several years ago I watched Alex Salmond rip LibDem wet wipe Nicol Stephen a new one and wish him “Merry Christmas” at the end of it.

      Naw, we are gonnae have to tread water until Covid is cured and Wee Eck lets off that big, explosivve book. Then Kabbooom Sturgeonite Wokeists, you are ALL going the same way as Derek Makay (remember him).

      The duplicitous Dregorn tractor will be given the bums rush back to where she came from. Obscurity. Forever know as the FM who was worse than yon “”Fiddle Not A Muddle” no-mark. Cannae even remember his name. She, on the other hand will be forever known as … Well I will leave that sentence unfinished. Answers on a postcard if you have a view of her/its legacy?

    318. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Scozzie 11.55 am
      Julia Gibb

      If the SNP are ignoring the worries of the members regarding lack of “enthusiasm” for independence and importantly the problems of self-id/GRA for the women, then yes something MUST be done to wake them up.

      Before Indref-1 the membership was ca. 25.000 persons, after the numbing shock the membership shot up fourfold to 100.000+ as folk joined in a sign of resistence.

      This means at the end of September, tens of thousands of memberships are awaiting renewal.

      If a very large number do’nt renew, then Mr. Murrel is going to have a huge problem with posting the numbers (the msm will go to town with them) and the bank account is gonna be much worse than it already is. As for his missus..!

      As you say, rejoining’s not a problem if they get a grip and start to listen.

      HR21 is next year so a shot across the bow this year might waken them up.

    319. David says:

      Ian Brotherhood 8 51

      Your link is needing re posted

    320. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Bob Mack: “Seems to me the website has never changed its goal, but the party it supported has.” That’s how I see things now, and it’s painful to say it.

      @Ian B @8.51: is this the clip you had in mind?

      I’ve lost all faith in our leadership over the AS affair.

    321. Beaker says:

      If the GRA goes through, there is one simple message the opposition will use:

      “Men will be able to use women’s toilets.”

      Try fucking selling that in Glasgow, especially to Glasgow women.

      What’s next, shared toilets?

    322. A Person says:


      The problem is, there’s a type of middle-class liberal SNP supporter who thinks that because your average Glaswegian is an SNP supporter, they sign up to the whole middle-class liberal woke thing.

      Forgetting that supporting the SNP and independence don’t mean you support woke liberalism; the SNP is a fundamentally populist party.

      Forgetting also that your average Glaswegian has only been an SNP supporter for the last five years, prior to which they were the stereotypical Labour voter.

      Forgetting also that we live in the age of rapid political change. Look at the Red Wall.

      Pride goes before a fall. Any politician who thinks they’re untouchable usually gets a rude awakening!

      Hopefully the SNP will wake up!

    323. CameronB Brodie says:

      A Person
      Your reactionary hostility to Foucault tells me a lot about your political outlook. Just saying. 😉

      Agency and Change: Re-evaluating Foucault’s Legacy

      Michel Foucault’s work marks an important break with conventional ontological dualism, epistemological realism and rationalist and intentional notions of individual action and human agency. In these respects his ideas have had an enormous influence on postmodern organization theory and analysis, as well as related forms of social constructionism.

      In particular, Foucault’s ideas have lead to a rejection of agency-structure dichotomies and a move towards process-based
      ontologies of ‘organizing/changing’ that create new problematics of agency as discourse, talk, text or conversation. While this ontological shift toward nominalism has often provoked a counter-reaction against the ‘death of
      the subject’ and the corrosive influence of postmodernism, there have been few attempts to explore how Foucault’s decentring of agency is related to new, more positive and potentially emancipatory discourses that redefine the relationship between agency and change, resistance and power in organizations and society.

      Here it will be argued that Foucault’s legacy can be re-conceptualized as a theorization of the decentring of agency consisting of four key components: discourse, power/knowledge, embodiment and self-reflexivity. Redefined within Foucauldian organizational discourses, decentred agency can lead to new possibilities for the exploration of
      agency as discourse and the broader dispersal of agency in organizations.

      It will be concluded, however, that Foucault’s concept of agency fails as a theorization of change: it breaks the link between the voluntary choice or desire to ‘act otherwise’ and the moral, political and practical possibilities of ‘making a difference’.

      autonomy; de-centred agency; discourse; embodiment; identity; reflexitivity

    324. lothianlad says:

      @ Kenny

      But NS is a professional politician and I think she is a stirrer up of trouble. She creates discord where there is no discord. What exactly is her game?

      Thing is this… NS has been helped into her position of power by the british secret services to wreck havoc whenever we get close to Independence!

      She has surrounded herself with like minded followers of mind boggling and dangerous nature denying policies.

      This is to sow seeds of discord with members. Dropping Independence as a priority and pursuing dangerous anti civil liberty policies is only the start of the plan to damage the Independence cause!

      These things were never pursued before she came to power.
      For those who want to examine her rise through the ranks to the top will see that she was helped along, every step of the way by some sinister forces.

      Yes she is determined, ruthlessly so. But that was not got her to where she now is. The brit secret service have her controlled and now the want her to destroy the prospect of Independence!

      With all the mandates, why on earth would a an SNP leader and FM not go for the jugular against the most inept UK government in history??

      Why indeed?

    325. Sue Varley says:

      Sorry to be On Topic this far down the thread Stuart, but have you noticed that you now also agree with Kevin Hague? He has tweeted in support of JKR today. 2020 just goes on getting worse!

    326. twathater says:

      Can anyone recommend a free version of word or PDF as I would like to make up a pro forma to possibly upload so that readers can assess whether I’m talking shit or whether there is sense in what I’m proposing

      I bought a new laptop and the barstewards want £80 a year for a license for word
      Cheers for any help

    327. jfngw says:

      @Graf Midgehunter

      The SNP will receive around £1.2m/year in short money from Westminster, plus their salaries amount to just over £4m/year for the 49 MP’s (I know this doesn’t go to the party but they will be expected to contribute). I suspect even losing half their members will not effect them financially that much.

      The biggest impact would be the conference attendance, but they’ve overcome that problem, there is unlikely to be one before the election in 21.

    328. David says:


      I think there is government buildings in Glasgow which have Unisex toilets

      Very PC

    329. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @David (9.15) and TC (9.18) –

      Sorry I made an arse of that link, and thanks TC for posting it properly.

      Have shown it to a couple of folk who don’t really give much of a fig about indy one way or t’other. Consensus is there’s some serious porky-pieing going on right there.

    330. call me dave says:

      Never tried this but worth a look.
      Good luck.

      LibreOffice is a free and open-source office suite, a project of The Document Foundation. It was forked in 2010 from, which was an open-sourced version of the earlier StarOffice. Wikipedia

      Also maybe EDGE the broser microsoft may have similar. 🙂

    331. call me dave says:


      call me dave says:
      11 June, 2020 at 10:17 pm
      Never tried this but worth a look.
      Good luck.

      LibreOffice is a free and open-source office suite, a project of The Document Foundation. It was forked in 2010 from, which was an open-sourced version of the earlier StarOffice. Wikipedia

      Also maybe EDGE the broser microsoft may have similar. ?

    332. CameronB Brodie says:

      Have you looked at Open Office? It’s free and Open Source.

    333. CameronB Brodie says:

      call me dave
      Snap. 😉

    334. jfngw says:


      BBC PQ has unisex toilets, they are individual cubicles though, no common area.

    335. call me dave says:

      @CameronB Brodie


    336. Ian R Murray says:

      Like everyone else I hope for an Independent Scotland within my lifetime (sooner the better)
      I think the SNP have been sidetracked by being in government for so long and although they have improved the country immensely they have been clutching their mandates in their hands waiting to move forward on Indyref 2 The Tories have lurched from disaster to disaster which meant the SNP had to try to mitigate the damage on behalf of all voters.I believe that we are in downward vortex (like water down a drain) we have to get off.These self inflicted disasters are the norm for the Tories and it will never stop.
      The press are going to slaughter the SNP either way, so lets go for it now !

    337. CameronB Brodie says:

      Time for a bit of bounded rationality, satisficing, problem solving, heuristics, modeling, and scientific discovery?

      Bounded rationality, scissors, crowbars, and pragmatism:
      reflections on Herbert Simon

    338. David says:

      Just watching a programme on BBC 4 about Apollo 11 and the flight to the moon.

      And what really comes across is how their whole nation got behind it.

      The pride in what they all achieved comes across very very strongly.

      And I actually felt envious

      Because the way Sturgeon has totally deflated the pride and enthusiasm I found when Campaigning in indyRef1 has gone.

      That bastard Sturgeon has robbed me of those joyous feelings of marching as one Nation that I had .

      And I am afraid they will not be returning anytime soon under this Sturgeon stewardship

      I don’t know what Sturgeon is up to

      Has she been knobbled by the english establishment?

      Have they offered her a very large pay day?

      Has she been offered a job elsewhere?

      Who knows

      What I do know is that she needs removed from her present post ASAP

    339. CameronB Brodie says:

      That one hopefully gave folk a taste for this. 🙂

      Rational tools of government in a world of bounded rationality

    340. mike cassidy says:

      A reminder.

      Wings Over Scotland is a Scottish political website, which focuses particularly on the media – whether mainstream print and broadcast organisations or the online and social-network community – as well as offering its own commentary and analysis.

      The site advocates Scottish independence, but is not affiliated or connected in any way to the SNP, and neither gives to or receives money from the party, nor indeed any other party. We have an inquiring mind, and welcome intelligent contributions from all sides of the political debate.

    341. crazycat says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood at 10.13

      I often find it instructive to look at clips with the sound off; it removes a distraction. If there are subtitles, it isn’t even always necessary to watch again with the sound on.

      2 or 3 years ago I watched Theresa May that way, and the similarities to Thatcher were far more obvious.

      And yes, the body language in your clip is very damning. I didn’t bother listening to her, but she looked really ratty, as if she was really struggling not to snap at the interviewer. Since I’m already biased and think she’s in this up to her neck, I interpreted that as serious concern that she isn’t going to get away with it.

      The eyes are supposed to be the window into the soul (not that I believe in souls), but when I met NS and looked into her eyes, which due to her heels were exactly on a level with mine, the window was completely opaque.

    342. ElGordo says:

      The Origins of Gang/Counter-gang Operations

      British agent Frank Kitson produced an insidious little 1960 handbook called Gangs and Counter-gangs based on his work coordinating special operations against the 1955 Mau Mau uprising in Kenya which threatened to break this valuable African region free of British colonialism. Kitson’s handbook was a modern adaption of a centuries-old practice according to the needs of putting down independence and civil rights movements that threatened to undo the age of empires.

      During his work in Kenya, Kitson recognized that when outnumbered and faced with organized independence movements, it is just not very effective for thinly spread colonialists to try to put them down by force directly and much wiser to change the rules of the game by a slight of hand. The formula for changing the game is to cultivate one or more opposition groups to whatever force is posing a threat to the empire… and then cultivate a counter-gang to that opposition group to create a new set of conflicts within your target population (Hence the name “gang/counter-gang”). While the target society becomes polarized by the two warring (yet ultimately controlled) opposition movements, the genuine independence movement simply gets diffused and lost in the chaos.

      Describing his insight which would later be put to use in the FBI’s COINTEL program within America soon thereafter, Kitson wrote:

      “As a result of our informers and pseudo gangs we were getting to know a bit about the future movements of the gangs which was much better than merely analysing past events. We had a long way to go before we could say that we were producing the information that would enable the Security Forces to destroy the Mau Mau in our area… I began to feel that at last I was on the road which led to the desired goal.” [p.90]

    343. David says:


      Try Pirate Bay for free version of Microsoft Office

      And remember and get ones that have activation code and serial numbers.

      Cannae beat Pirate Bay

      But don’t tell anybody I told you

    344. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Kenny says:

      ” Go to Germany and if you are the king or emperor, you are referred to as “she” [because Maejestat is feminine]. ”

      Nice try but no coconut for you today. 🙂

      The King – der König
      The Queen – die Königin (-in means female)

      His Majesty – Seine Majestät (male version)
      Her Majesty – Ihre Majestät (female version)

      The Majesty – die Majestät (Feminine) signifys only that the word is feminine but the King or Queen is still refered to in their male or female versions.

      My pleasure. (Was feeling a little bit pedanty today because it’s another one of our German holidays today, a day off..!

      Fronleichnam – Corpus Christi.

    345. David says:

      Big final Brexit pow wow planned for June 15th with Boris and all the top brass of the EU going to be there

      This will be the last chance to organise an extension,,,if this fails then we are out on our arse with No Deal at the end of the year

    346. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian B 10.13, crazycat 10.47: this is not easy to say but I began to have misgivings as early as the Glasgow SSE in October. All that Totty Rocks cult of personality stuff was a bit worrying but I bit my tongue, thinking that we had a head of steam and we would get there almost inevitably.

      The Brexit vote seemed a golden opportunity for us to exercise our 62% “muscle of sovereignty” and show why the Union simply didn’t work for Scotland but after an initial love-in for EU citizens, NS began pursuing a mad and unmandated “Save England from Brexit” strategy. Cue Blackford’s embarrassing and duplicitous “We won’t be dragged…..” crapola. I canvassed dutifully with no enthusiasm in December and froze/drenched my nazzums off, wondering exactly what I was asking folk to vote for.

      Then we had GRA madness and recently Yousuf’s very worrying legal machinations, with a potential side-serving of no jury trials, taped testimony, no cross-examination and no automatic right of appeal.

      I am no longer a member and won’t contribute any more money unless the party campaigns unequivocally for independence from now on. I have voted for the party in every election since 1974 so but have rarely felt so dispirited.

      You don’t have to be a body language expert to be alarmed by that newsnight footage.

    347. Jock Wishart says:

      50 times. Fuck me how do you get to that number oh I see its big ? ?

    348. dakk says:

      The short clip of NS interview I heard last night reminded me a bit of the the Prince Andrew interview.

      And I didn’t even see the body language.

    349. stonefree says:

      @ crazycat at 10:47 pm
      I applied a similar tactic at SNP meetings before i got drummend out It was “quite unpleasent and nasty” that was in 2015

    350. defo says:

      Pivotal events
      I suppose that those who decided not to give up their sleekit game after Eck’s civil win, are on a par with the infamous cellar signaturies on our bill of sale.

      Surely even one of the twenty detectives, Scotland’s finest no doubt, had detected a hint of the reek emanating and percolating from above ?

      When the shite starts flying, how far down the chain of command will we need to clean out?

    351. Famous15 says:

      It’s SHITE being Scottish! We’re the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don’t. They’re just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can’t even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We’re ruled by effete assholes. It’s a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won’t make any fucking difference.

    352. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Crazycat & TC –

      There’s just too much denial around the FM, and it’s becoming difficult to avoid the conclusion that she’s now milking that for all its worth.

      The daily Address to The Nation, for which she appears to be garnering universal praise, can be viewed as a variation on her Brexit strategy (i.e. save The English from themselves) – she’s exhorting Scots, with minor alterations to the speech, to save ourselves from one another. And it’s wearing pretty fucking thin.

      Could it be that all this stylish, polished crisis management is nothing more than a projection of her own insecurity? That she needs to be seen to be the heroine, saving other folk, to distract attention from her own predicament? And why would she do that if she wasn’t fully aware of just how much trouble she is in?

      Alex Salmond, by his own admission, is ‘no saint’, but he’s not guilty of the charges concocted against him and is a free man. NS, on the other hand, looks as guilty as sin – of what, we don’t yet know, but if we are to get the indy/Yes movement back on the tracks then we need fire, passion, and a wee dash of righteous indignation wouldn’t go amiss.

      It’s a no-brainer – NS has to chuck it, and AS has to come back.

    353. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      “Alex Salmond, by his own admission, is ‘no saint’, but he’s not guilty of the charges concocted against him and is a free man. NS, on the other hand, looks as guilty as sin – of what, we don’t yet know, but if we are to get the indy/Yes movement back on the tracks then we need fire, passion, and a wee dash of righteous indignation wouldn’t go amiss.

      It’s a no-brainer – NS has to chuck it, and AS has to come back.”
      With you all the way and AS. 🙂

    354. Joe says:

      If you are wondering whats wrong with Sturgeon my strong suspicion is that she knows public exposure is coming.

      I think she and her SNP chums are linked with some very nasty people on the world stage who the Americans are close to exposing. They never thought she (Hillary) would lose.

    355. Capella says:

      Just watched the clip of the Nicola Sturgeon interview. She certainly seemed uncomfortable. But as I didn’t see the whole interview that could be annoyance with Kirsty Wark. Wouldn’t be the first time.
      However the bigger problem is that the sound track is slightly ouf of sync with the vision which is quite disruptive in an subcobscious way.

    356. Big Jock says:

      Nicola promised us all that we wouldn’t be dragged out of the EU. She lied to us. She promised a referendum. She lied to us. She has no plan.

      She was never serious about Indy ref 2. It’s all been a strategy to win elections. Salmond had one mandate. He delivered the referendum. Yet people want to belittle his achievements and talk up Nicola’s?

      Salmond makes things happen. Nicola just talks.

    357. Beaker says:

      Well, the Sun looks like it has really fucked up. Front page of tomorrow’s edition has JKR’s first husband saying he is not sorry for beating the shit out of her. Wonder who came up with that bright idea.

      #dontbuythesun is going a bit mental on Twitter at the moment.

    358. David says:

      I think Sturgeon has started her 2021 electioneering campaign.

      She us using this Covid19 pandemic as a front, That will be why she attends every broadcast meeting.

      She is trying to appeal to Nationalists AND Unionists, who both vote for her in the Holyrood elections,

      That will be why you hear no Talk of Independence

    359. A Person says:

      Big Jock-

      That about sums it up. I have no way of knowing if Sturgeon is corrupt or compromised like some on here like to say, but she just doesn’t have what it takes. When push comes to shove she’s hot air.

      Question is, who to replace her? Most on here say Alex Salmond. Much as I admire him, many really don’t. Sadly the mud will stick. Like Rev Stu and many others, I like the cut of Joanna Cherry’s jib. Her response to BLM has been an acerbic takedown of the Tories’ unbelievable cruelty over the Windrush scandal, as opposed to dismal virtue signaling.


      Unbelievable! Liverpool had the right idea!

    360. Joe says:

      The similarity of unpopular SNP policies to those in Canada, New Zealand, Australia etc is not an accident. The SNP are just the Scottish branch managers in the process of dismantling liberal democracy and our ability to govern ourselves.

    361. CameronB Brodie says:

      A Person
      Care to explain your hostility to Foucault?

      The Politics of Emotion: A Feminist Reading of Bounded Rationality

    362. Beaker says:

      @twathater says:
      11 June, 2020 at 10:04 pm
      “Can anyone recommend a free version of word or PDF as I would like to make up a pro forma to possibly upload so that readers can assess whether I’m talking shit or whether there is sense in what I’m proposing

      I bought a new laptop and the barstewards want £80 a year for a license for word
      Cheers for any help”

      You can purchase a one-off version of Office 365. I bought a new laptop in February and did that. Unless you are an accountant or an editor and want the full works it will be fine. Think it is about £120ish but it is a one-off. Word, Excel and Powerpoint.
      And you can save Word into a pdf easy enough. It’s a fucking ripoff for home users this annual subscription.

    363. CameronB Brodie says:

      Come on Joe, you’ve already shown us you’re an ignorant hater. So why continue with the pretense of being reasonable?

      Truth and Method: Feminist Standpoint Theory Revisited

    364. Big Jock says:

      A Person.

      If Salmond is too damaged to be leader. I agree Jo Cherry is the ticket. However I want Salmond running the strategy, even in the background.

      There is something special about Salmond. He is like a boxer who never quits. Hero’s are often flawed characters,but they are still heroes.

    365. Doug Buchannan says:

      @ Big Jock.

      No one I know is belittling Alex’s achievements, on the contrary, I and all the folk I know will be eternally grateful for his significant political skills, brain and personality in raising us from a low point to the brink of independence. Without doubt, the best and most effective politician in Scotland and the uk for 10 years up to 2014.

      Alex moved on in 2014, rightly so and handed the torch onto Nicola, rightly so.

      I am not a no smoke without fire person, he was found innocent and innocent he is. However his reputation has taken a fatal blow for obvious reasons and there will be no comeback, there never was going to be one anyway. He may have had an advisory position, but not now, least ways in public.

      His legacy has been built on and continues to be built on. There only is one vehicle that will secure independence for a Scotland and that is the vehicle that is slowly but securely taking votes off unionist parties and convincing Scots independence is the only viable option.

      Sadly I look at the toxic nonsense on here, nuff said!

    366. CameronB Brodie says:

      Want Scotland to become independent?

      Be-coming subjects: reclaiming a politics of
      location as radical political rhetoric

    367. Beaker says:

      Sorry about going on about this, but Twitter has a lot of very confused people right now. There are people tweeting in support of not buying the Sun, while at the same time slagging off JKR (without understanding what she was saying).

      Someone must have fed them after midnight…

    368. Confused says:

      It would be a tragic loss if transmentalists started burning Harry Potter books, or getting them removed from libraries.

      JK may retaliate further in print –

      Harry Potter and the She-Males of Wokelandia

      – tales of Fantastic She-Beasts

      Chapter 1

      “virtulatus signalorium”, exclaimed Harry as he expelled the jock-eaters of cybernatus – flush with victory, he faced a far more dangerous enemy.


      (Harry succeeds via some ad hoc plot device plucked out of nowhere.

      – um, he opens the “EatShitiumInPublicum of the SackCloth-and-Ash-Chamber of Penitence”)

      I can do 400 pages of this shit in my sleep. JUST GIVE ME THE MONEY.

      – continuing the theme of wizardry and covering your arse

      Magic : The Gathering should create a Virtue Signaling set.

      – then, you can literally play

      The Race Card
      – doubles power level against any non-black character; stacks with intersectionality bonus attribute

      The R4pe Card
      – provides full immunity against all social media swarm attacks, allowing complete safety when augmented with invisibility spell, aka Maldives Holiday

      so tedious. Identity politics rotates its methods the way the council does bin collections; next week, its antisemitism again, so don’t say nasty things about george soros, even if he openly admits to doing them in the MSM interviews.

      – what would be really embarrassing for us would be if the BLM crowd pulled down the Duke of Sutherland before we did; but, here is the thing – if they decide to do it, the authorities will stand back and let them, but if we did it, they would throw away the key (after locking our cell door with it). Funny, that! Not really … “selective application of the law” is being rubbed in our faces, daily.

    369. Big Jock says:

      Doug. Whilst I agree it’s good to take voted off unionists.

      There also has to be a purpose in doing so. If the leadership just gather mandates, then having 90% of the seats won’t change anything.

      Nicola has had six victories over the unionists. So why are we still waiting for a referendum?

      She will get a 7th next year. Is anyone confident it will lead to a referendum? Certainly not me.

    370. Roger says:

      Yeah, the SNP seem to have become a bit comfy in and at ease in And they seem to have attracted all sorts of agenda-driven opportunists who gravitate towards power like flies to shit.

      The reason for a list party now is obviously not just to sweet up wasted votes and keep the unionists out, it’s to provide an alternative to the SNP. At worst it will give them pause, at best it might even hold the balance of power.

      But here’s the thing, a List party needs to be done properly. A Mickey Mouse effort won’t work – it would just be an embarrassing farce and would do more harm than good.

      So a List party, yes, but a proper one. One that has a chance of winning seats and doesn’t risk becoming a joke.

    371. CameronB Brodie says:

      As folk don’t click links, here’s a peek at that previous link.

      ….The collective and individual history of oppression/colonization, the space of the contested border, and the continued resistance and will to survive contributes to the creation of a distinct cultural identity for Chicanos/as.

      In mapping the colonization of both the land and the people, in mapping the oppression and terrorization of Chicanos by Anglos, Anzaldua excavates the deep implications of these relations on the sense of self, both individually and collectively, “As a person, I, as a people, we, Chicanos, blame ourselves, hate ourselves, terrorize ourselves. Most of this goes on unconsciously; we only know that we are hurting, we suspect that there is something ‘wrong’ with us, something fundamentally ‘wrong'” (45).

      However, Anzaldua points out that Chicanos/as are not simply or finally defeated because there is an equally long history of resistance and a will to survive through maintaining cultural integrity. Locating her identity in the material and socio-political borderlands, Anzaldua takes inventory by examining what she has inherited from her ancestors – an identity marked by both oppression and resistance. In fact, the narration of this history is, itself, an act of resistance insofar as it renders visible an erased history.

      Indeed, the location of a resistant identity for Anzaldua is through language and communication. Anzaldua argues that the ability to narrate a fragmented history – to give reality shape through language – creates Chicanos/as as a “distinct people.” She locates the mobilization of this political identity around 1965 through the leadership of Ceasar Chavez and the united farm-workers movement, the publication of I Am Joaquin, and the formation of la Raza Unida party (63).

      Narrating this new history is an effort to positively reconstruct subjectivity by confronting the erasure and lies of a white supremacist version of U.S./Mexico history. Thus, by using a politics of location to excavate the meaning of her cultural identity in the specific geographical space of the U.S./Mexico border and the sociopolitical history of that space, Anzaldua asserts discursive agency by bringing into sharp relief the distinctive identity of Chicanas/os….

    372. Joe says:

      ‘“selective application of the law” is being rubbed in our faces, daily.’

      Yup. The narrative fits the objective. But thats par for the course – the objective is division and confusion. Split ordinary people along sexual and racial lines and you can play them off against each other. Look at the indy movement. It works.

    373. CameronB Brodie says:

      Are you still vehemently hostile to post-modern critical social theory?

      Standpoint theory
      Standpoint Theory and Eugenics

      Although standpoint theory was not initially concerned with issues of disability or eugenics, the early 20th-century scientific research that eugenic practices in Canada and elsewhere were built upon are precisely those that standpoint theorists like Harding would decry as lacking neutrality and objectivity. Standpoint theory can accordingly interrogate the presuppositions of the epistemic agents perpetuating subhumanizing eugenic beliefs and practises….

    374. North chiel says:

      “ Famous 15 @ 0140 pm “ Alister Jack says UK government has saved Scotland by paying furlough “ Don’t know what School AJ attended as the London Treasury would be paying the wages/ salaries of the UK Furlough scheme ,( including Scotland) , and SCOTTISH TAXPAYERS, including individuals & businesses pay their “ fair share” and probably more to fund the UK government London treasury , when Scottish Energy resources including Oil, gas , wind & wave power are included.
      Consequently , the people ,businesses ,and natural resources of Scotland actually pay for the Furlough scheme attributed to Scotland , and very probably a not insignificant portion of rest of the UK also .
      If the treasury/ government require to borrow additional funds then no doubt the Scottish people will be saddled with the pro rata interest payable on any debt incurred. ( and added to Gers no doubt)
      Perhaps , Alister Jack should “ reflect” on where the UK government & treasury actually obtains revenue from before implying that the “ UK “ government were doing us here in Scotland “ a favour” with a scheme actually funded by ourselves.

    375. CameronB Brodie says:

      The proposed GRA reforms would impose unnatural beliefs on Scottish society, and so can’t be considered anything other than the adoption of eugenics.

      Identity Politics are being financed by the same people who backed Eugenics and the the Nazi Party, and for the same reason.

    376. twathater says:

      @ Call me Dave , Cam B ,David ,Beaker Thanks for your suggestions I will check them out

    377. Al-Stuart says:

      Old Pete,

      You are trolling and surely cannot be as ignorant as you make out,

      Try reading the work undertaken by the owner of this site before your amateur attempts at baiting folk.

      The stench from Nicola Sturgeon is overwhelming. Surely you read the detail…

      As for your assertion Wings Over Scotland is anti-SNP, Stuart Campbell is big enough and ugly enough to defend his own site, but I would add this…

      It it the corrupt and dishonest FRIENDS OF THE FAKE-RAPE ALLEGING, MCWOKIST SNP LEADERSHIP that has WoS and many of us up in arms about. The SNP has many decent troops within its ranks at branch level and the likes of Alex Salmond might have a recovery plan in his sights.

      Mouldy Pete it is the McWokeist takeover of SENIOR SNP positions a lot of us have a problem with.

      As for your master-baiter effort to get a rise by calling an alternative Indy party to the SNP “DAFT”, I know this much: Alex Salmond will have a forensic case laid out in the book he is writing right now.

      Old Pete, as your real ID is probably Private Edward Wokington-Smythe from Kent, a young soldier of the 77th Brigade political and cyber disruptor unit, you will NOT be in sufficiently trained in the nuances of Scots.

      Anyone who paid attention to the way Alex Salmond ran our nation during his tenure will know he was by far the most intelligent, politically astute and competent servant of the people of Scotland.

      I guarantee you that your feckless efforts and misuse of the word DAFT will come back round to bite your erse.

      Whilst on about erses, don’t let the door hit yours too hard on the road out. Now please fuckk off dear fellow. The colonel needs his morning tea making and shoes cleaning.

      For any Nicola fans still blind to the malfeasance that has her fingerprints all over the evidence, might I remind you to read good old Grousebeaters article on what the Witches tried to do to Alex Salmond…

      Sadly, I stopped buying the National after Callum published that shittty little letter from the Withces’ cheerleader. When Callum resigns and the National acknowledges THE problem with Nocola and her infected High Command, I will start buying the paper again.

      Now it is chust a case of treading water until Covid is ended and we get our legitimate First Minister, Alex Salmond back.

      When Alex promises to do something, you can have faith he will do it.

      Unlike Narcisistic Sturgeon with her SIX unused IndyRef mandates.

    378. Robert Louis says:

      Big Jock at 1238am,

      Totally agree. I somehow don’t really think Mr Salmond would want to be FM again. However, Joanna is the right person to take us forward, but we need strategic input from Alex – as you correctly point out. It has been sadly missing for the last six years.

      We have a cowardly SNP FM right now, who , despite massive electoral support, with the largest number of MP’s, MSP’s and coucillors, is simply feart to do a single damn thing to help us get independence. She won’t even attend indy marches, FFS, despite attending many other types of demo.

      And I will never forget, it is an SNP government that is sitting idly by, as Scotland is forcibly removed from the EU wholly against its wishes by England. Such complacency, such cowardice. Sitting on their hands as Scotland is right royally f***ed by England. Again.

      The SNP, the do nothing party.

    379. Hood says:

      WPS Office works well and is free for the standard version, you get the occasional nag popping up to go for the full fat version but even that nag is not obtrusive.

    380. David says:

      Do you think Sturgeon will have the absolute brass neck to tell us we need to vote SNP 1 & 2 in next year’s Hollywood elections, because it’s the only way to get the mandate that we need to get the Section 30 order from Westminster for indyRef2.

      Surely not!!!

      She wouldn’t be that brazen, would she?

    381. David says:

      What Scotland needs is it’s own version of UKIP.

      With our own version of Nigel Farage.

      Who will be our Nigel Farage?

      UKIP was set up for one purpose, to take England/UK out of the EU

      Did UKIP work in England? You better believe it did. It forced David Cameron to do a complete policy change and give England/UK a referendum.

      They wanted their Independence from the EU.

      So UKIPs message became stronger and stronger until the whole of working class England had bought into the UKIP message.

      I am not saying our version of UKIP should be as racist as the english version.

      What I am saying is we need a new Indy Party who will capture the imagination of the majority of Scots, the way UKIP captured the imagination of the majority of the English.

      A Party that will shake up Scottish politics the way UKIP shook up english politics.

    382. Joe says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Good article and yes I am. Post modernism and critical theory are just another tenticle of the same machine this article speaks of – destruction of our society. Its like capitalism & communism, both different but if unchecked ends with same people holding all the power

    383. Capella says:

      @ Confused 12.47am – thx for that – genuine LOL comment.

      what would be really embarrassing for us would be if the BLM crowd pulled down the Duke of Sutherland before we did

    384. Dogbiscuit says:

      The ideology presented by BLM and Antifa is dangerous. Sturgeon is working for the banks. The British and Scottish Governments are the real fascists locking away their population. The SNP doubling down on Tory ‘lockdown’. I will never vote for SNP Tory fascism.The real fascists have got us locked up and are trying to destroy children’s future.If you want your children to have a future leave Scotland. The scunner Sturgeon is fake care and concern for the public. We really fell for her ‘humanitarian schtick. The dodgy STV advert showing toddlers mouthing heaps of praise on Sturgeon for saving us all is the cheap nasty propaganda of a tin pot dictatorship. Wake up to the Egomaniacal Sturgeon.

    385. Dogbiscuit says:

      Sturgeon + bullshit.= Hillary Clinton.

    386. Dogbiscuit says:

      Capella.Only the Taliban pull down statues.

    387. Breeks says:

      Robert Louis says:
      12 June, 2020 at 7:17 am
      Big Jock at 1238am,

      Totally agree. I somehow don’t really think Mr Salmond would want to be FM again. However, Joanna is the right person to take us forward, but we need strategic input from Alex – as you correctly point out. It has been sadly missing for the last six years.

      Do you remember years ago I was banging on about a metaphor whether Holyrood was empowered by red Scottish Sovereignty, white English sovereignty, pink sovereignty of both combined, or raspberry ripple sovereignty with a mixture of both?

      Well, back then I felt Holyrood was at a crossroads, and had the potential to challenge the rule of Westminster, challenge and disrupt the conventions of Westminster rule, and enshrine Scotland’s constitution even in devolved legislation. In the context of my metaphor, it would redden the sovereignty of Holyrood. The roll of FM in such a parliament would have been pivotal in making “home rule” and independence the ‘norm’ in the minds of Scottish voters.

      However, Holyrood under Sturgeon’s tenure has done nothing of the sort. In short, it has pretty much done the polar opposite, and dedicated itself to enshrining the white sovereignty of Westminster’s rule over Scotland, drawing the teeth and claws from Scotland’s ancient and sovereign Constitution in the process.

      Such is the damage which has been done, over Brexit in particular, and the wholesale capitulation over Europe, that I now find it difficult to see Holyrood as anything except an agency of Westminster’s colonial expansion rather than any agency determined to defend the Constitutional integrity of Scotland.

      As a consequence, I think the roll of Holyrood and Holyrood FM has changed in these past 5 years. It is no longer any champion of Scottish emancipation. It is the instrument which facilitates Westminster’s colonial aspirations to rule over Scotland forever. Holyrood is now part of the problem to be got rid off, rather than the solution to be found and the liberty of Independence.

      Five years ago, Alex Salmond was perfect for the roll of First Minister. But now however, I don’t think Alex Salmond would touch the roll of First Minister with a barge poll. He simply isn’t the same Gauleiter material that Sturgeon manifestly is.

      Paradoxically, I don’t think damages the Indy cause. What do you want Scotland? A tame and timid talking shop which frets about a Section 30 devolved convention? Or a wholly unchained and Constitutionally driven Scottish Government in waiting, which is entirely loyal to ancient Scotland’s sovereign Constitution and the popular sovereignty of the people and NOT willing to compromise on sovereign principle or bow in acquiescence to Westminster’s colonialism?

      I kinda hope Sturgeon is the last First Minister of Scotland, because Holyrood’s days are numbered, and Scotland’s Independent Government will not be derived from any evolution of Holyrood conventions, but be drawn up from first principles based upon the unadulterated constitutional sovereignty of Scotland.

    388. Dogbiscuit says:

      People of the left fall for all kinds of shit. Here is ‘left leaning ‘ Scotland taking fascist Tory ‘lockdown’ orders.Fucking Jock morons.

    389. As Sue said earlier,

      Kevin Hague (twitter)

      10 Jun
      `is an unsurprisingly brilliant, surprisingly personal and compellingly well argued riposte to those who have been abusing her on this platform for having the temerity to have a considered, nuanced view on a controversial issue`.

      the grave robber,
      Muriel Gray,
      Johann Lamont,
      Kevin Hague,

      as they say `The enemy of my enemy is my friend `,


    390. Famous15c? says:

      Well dogwhistle I sure aint falling for whatever YOU are selling.

      Independence must be better than this!

    391. Oneliner says:

      Alex Salmond was damaged goods the moment he signed for Russia.

    392. Famous15c? says:

      Dogwhistle goney naw dae that!

    393. TJenny says:

      David – I agree, alhough definitely not a blood and soil frothing Faragian racist.

      We need someone in the background directing the next indy who is single-mindedly indy focussed.

      I recently read an extract from somewhere about how Dominic Cummings won the EU ref by relentlessly drumming into all the proponents of leaving the EU to never, ever, ever try to define what the UK would be/look like after Brexit, as there were too many differing views and would only result in their inteviews being boggd down in alernative and contradictory versions/visions. Instead, they should always emphasise what it WOULDN’T BE (a la Farage) viz:

      No longer would the EU dictate who we could or couldn’t trade with

      No longer would we have to pay the EU billions a year

      No more EU interference in our judiciary, e.g. telling UK courts who we could/couldn’t deport

      No more EU dictating our immigration policy etc, etc.

      Even though all these tenets were actually signed EU/UK agreements and BJ obviously went off-piste(pissed) a few times, they pretty much all stuck with the script.

      We could easily do the same by replacing EU with WM in our dialogue, and avoid all the nitpicking whataboutery we endured in the lead up to indy ref 1. Maybe that’s why the Brexiteers were never really cross-examined on ‘after Brexit’ because the Brexiteers never ever really defined it.

      Just a thought. 🙂

    394. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Oneliner –

      What position did he play?

    395. Dogbiscuit says:

      Alex Montrose vote Green for socio economic disaster.

    396. Kenneth McDougall says:

      Looks like the media’s favorite gimp has annoyed her keepers

    397. Capella says:

      @ TJenny – the LEAVE campaign lied shamelessly and flooded social media with lies. Vote LEAVE and get £350m a week for the NHS.
      Even so – LEAVE won by quite a small margin.

      Even if the YES campaign copied their tactics they won’t have the entire MSM backing them. Quite the opposite will happen.

    398. defo says:

      Ian B
      Winger, obviously

    399. robert graham says:

      o/t. A wee bit
      BBC Scotlands website at great pains with graphics to discount the increase in cross border traffic they even manage to muddy the waters by including the M8 and various routes throughout central Scotland , oh I thought the question was cross border traffic , when any organisation goes to these lengths to produce a smoke screen I immediately smell *hite .
      Aye good old auntie never wastes a good opportunity to confuse the inmates of this English Prison.

    400. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @defo –

      Ah see whit ye done there!


    401. Dan says:

      twathater at 10:04 pm

      Re. A Pro Forma.
      For maximum effect and take up it might be best if the content was critiqued and finessed by a number of other folk prior to it being published.
      As individuals we see and think things our own way and therefore might miss an aspect or phrase text in a less than optimum manner.
      Obviously there are some particularly articulate and eloquent wordsmiths on here that have expressed opinions over time that suggest they may be interested in embracing the protest concept.
      If we look at the way Stu’s recent letters to various parties were succinctly scribed as he tried to nail down Contempt of Court issues, it gives us an example of the power of a well wielded pen in concisely nailing down what we want to say, which is useful in conveying a strong message.
      Maybe you could post the bones of a potential pro forma text over on Off Topic for input.

      I mean no disrespect to your own personal abilities in suggesting this, it’s more to do with maximising the potential leverage such a protest might have.

    402. Oneliner says:


      I agree with your UKIP evangelism. The trouble is, the moribund media are/were way more accepting of them than they would ever be of a Scottish equivalent. They (the media) were intrigued by independence as a UK concept – they would be less acquiescent in a Scottish context. That’s not a problem, merely a challenge.

      Dominic Cummings has grasped the limitations of written communication. He is a proactive Civil Servant. In Scotland, our Civil Servants are reactive (I have anecdotal evidence of how chillingly so). Based on my evidence, I would call them obstructive.

      The right leader is probably out there but was shipped off to Canada or wherever as a young child. Not as a politician, but think what Andrew Carnegie could have done for Scotland instead of grandstanding with Skibo Castle

    403. mike cassidy says:

      As this thread started with JK Rowling

      Piss-taking does it every time.

    404. Big Jock says:

      Remember this.

      Nicola’s reason for not attending the AUOB marches , was that she didn’t want to appear to be talking only to part of Scotland. To me this couldn’t be much clearer. She is not one of us, and this reason was actually very insulting.

      She has forgotten what the SNP was set up to do. She has forgotten the people like us, who have given our entire adult lives to the cause.I believe Nicola is just a manager of devolution. Is she any different to MacLeish or McConnell?

      I get the impression she doesn’t want anything to do with the likes of ourselves. She wants only people who vote SNP and keep their mouths shut. Trust in me, only me.

      Notice how quickly she dropped indy ref 2 when Covid kicked off. I think it was in the first week of Lockdown? Yet Boris will continue with the Brexit disaster unabated. Don’t forget. We will be in the middle of a recession and Boris will hurt Scotland even more with his no deal Brexit.

      What is Nicola going to do? Let even more damage be done to Scotland. Again tactically she has screwed up. Or deliberately abandoned Indy Ref 2?

      I guarantee one thing. When the SNP get another majority next May. They will use the financial crash as another reason to delay indy ref 2. They could spin that out for 3 years!

      Everything and anything that comes along is more important the Scotland’s sovereignty. When in actual fact. Scotland’s lack of sovereignty is the very reason for all the things that stem from the inability to make things better.

    405. Dogbiscuit says:

      Montrose I’m sick of green lunatics destroying our countries economy.

    406. TJenny says:

      Capella – well I did say BJ and a few others went off script a few times but in the main it wasn’t their positive arguments that got through, it was the negatives, the big NO EU, NO IMMIGRANTS, NO FISHING QUOTAS etc. That’s what got through. And I’d settle for 52% win, although more would be nice.

      Don’t see why it wouldn’t work for indy.

      No WM telling us when we can or can’t go into lockdown during a pandemic by withholding our own funds for furlough.

      No more WM telling us we can’t close our borders for protection.

      No WM dictating to us about well. anything, really.

      NO MORE WM interfering in Scotland’s business. What’s not to like?

    407. robert graham says:

      o/t Again
      I never thought I would ever agree or be onside with Jakey , but maybe ordinary folk will Wakey bloody Wakey as to what this Trans Cult have in mind , fk me I thought trans was something to do with transport or bleedn trams ,
      the whole bloody language is being turned upside down. Christ it will be street names next then we’re all fkd , question how do I get to ****** st oh that’s now xxxx st didn’t you know oh have a look at my super duper up to date gender neutral passed by and endorsed by the equalities commission and promoted by our friendly tax haven based hedge fund and priced at an amazingly low cost of xxxxxxxx Pounds that’s assuming the term Pounds hasn’t been replaced by a more acceptable term , I will have to check ,
      Christ I only want to go to Dundas St for fk sake I give in I well and truly fkn surrender , the ship is headed for the rocks we all see it , and these fkrs want to paint out the name of the ship because it offends them, oh boo hoo nothing like getting your priorities right , oh no we want, what do we want,fk knows but we want it yesterday and the rest of you mugs are paying through the nose for it

    408. Dogbiscuit says:

      Nicola Sturgeon is taking orders from the banking fraternity. Same as Macron Merkle and Trudeau. That’s where all the crazy wokism comes from. The banks finance the middlemen companies that claim to be planting trees to offset carbon emissions but how do they get permission to plant millions of trees ?They don’t .Carbon offsetting is a racket. ‘Lockdown’ is a racket.Look at the profits being made by big pharma .In an emergency’ drug companies make bigger profits than usual. If you’re buying ‘green economy’ bollocks then you’re as daft as a neurotic 18 year old leftist student.

    409. Dogbiscuit says:

      You have just left reality .Welcome to Wokanda.

    410. Dogbiscuit says:

      Wokism designed time destroy the family.Social distancing designed to destroy our children. Sturgeon a deadly threat to our children’s mental and physical health . Wake up properly people.

    411. Julia Gibb says:

      @Capella 8:46


      I couldn’t agree more!

    412. Big Jock says:

      My priority would be to get rid of all the royal statues in Scotland. The Red Coat commanders statues in the north. The Hanover Streets and Union Streets. Nelson’s column, Duke of Wellington. Don’t forget that ordinary Scots find these distasteful.

      I am 2/3 Irish ancestry. I don’t think I need to wake up to Scotland’s slave trading past. It has nothing to do with me. It’s unionists Scotland’s past shame. It’s the current Tories and ultra unionists that need to own this past.

      I agree with the protesters about getting rid of these symbols of slavery. However we need to remember that only a small part of the Scottish population were beneficiaries of this dirty money.

      Ordinary Scots were exploited and killed along with the Slaves from other shores. It suits the likes of Neil Oliver to make us all feel guilty about the colonists of the past. The truth is that modern Scots should not be ashamed of something that has hee haw to do with them.

    413. Dan says:

      Another link for anyone that thinks folk on here critiquing the SNP are the problem.

    414. mike cassidy says:

      For those dumb enough to think only the Taliban pull down statues

      The United States has been dismantling statues since its very foundation.

      One of the earliest recorded instances came in 1776, just five days after the Declaration of Independence was ratified. In a moment that was immortalized in a mid-19th-century painting, soldiers and civilians tore down a gilded statue of Britain’s King George III in Manhattan.

    415. David says:

      T Jenny

      Capella knows exactly what you mean.

      She just refuses to accept any alternative to an SNP administration lead by Nicola Sturgeon.

      The Capellas of this world would NEVER contemplate upsetting the present leadership.

      She believes Nicola will win her big majority next year (mandate included) and will forcibly ask Boris if he wouldn’t mind giving us the section 30 order that we need for indyRef2.

      Capella also knows that Boris will tell her that now is not the time.

      So Capella will obediently wait until the next GE when her Nicola will tell us all AGAIN to vote SNP to give her the mandate she needs to ask Boris for a section 30 order.

      And AGAIN at the 2026 Holyrood elections Nicola will tell us…

      And on and on and on we go.

      And all the time Westminster will be chipping away at what little powers Scotland has to run the Colony.

      So TJenny, I wouldn’t take seriously anything Capella has to say, because it is based on a starry eyed view of her hero Nicola Sturgeon.

    416. Kenny says:

      I am not sure if NS is a UK “asset”. For my part, I doubt it. I think it is much easier to co-opt someone like her.

      For example, Hillary Clinton told the UK in 2014: “I would hate to have you lose Scotland.”

      It would be very easy to remind NS that the likes of Hillary are opposed to Scottish independence and get one of Hillary’s minions to write NS a note, sowing the seeds of doubt. Or from among the very influential Trudeau clan.

      If NS has to choose between indy and Hillary, who do you think she would support? Do not forget that politicians of every sort are not like you and us, who put principles before their careers and climbing the greasy pole.

      What I find more concerning is living under the flightpath of Glasgow Airport and seeing plane after plane descend every day… while schools remain closed until August and people with mental health problems are not getting the support they need. People in impossible situations unable to move because the rental market has been shut down? One thing I cannot understand is how England’s economy is starting back up again, but we expect also the same financial support?

      What concerns me is all the people with mental health problems. NS promised to be the “most accessible first minister ever” when she took over from Salmond. But it seems she has issued an order to SNP MSPs to not even respond to constituents writing about their mental anguish over month after month of lockdown. I have this evidence from several sources. It is just like the “there is no debate” statement all over again.

      I watched the interview with no sound and subtitles. What got me was that an elected representative saying “I will answer at the appropriate time”. Like some 18th-century autocrat!

    417. Liz g says:

      Dan & Twathater
      While yes…I agree that a well worded well supported representation can be effective! I doubt they’ll listen.
      They haven’t in the past and mainly because they don’t have to.
      I’d suggest the only real power the Yes movement have here is (to borrow a phrase )
      * De-Fund the SNP * !!
      As we all know they have us over a barrel when it comes to our voting power,and not to vote produces the same results.
      But funding them is within the gift of the Branches,the Members and the Yes movement.
      Uniquely they have no London Head Office to depend on,they depend entirely on contributions here at home.
      If we are really sayin it’s time to light a fire under them then we should use the only power we actually have…

    418. Big Jock says:

      Imagine a parallel universe, where Covid- 19 never happened?

      What do you think Nicola would be doing to progress Indy Ref 2? It’s actually pretty easy to imagine. She would be in the media being slaughtered over the Salmond revelations. Indy Ref 2 would just be sitting in a desk somewhere. Waiting for Boris’s permission.

      Nicola has bought herself some time. But what is going to come out this year will change that. For one thing. There is the outcome of the court case to determine if Scotland has the right to hold a referendum. From what I understand, the Scottish Courts are likely to agree that it’s Scotland’s decision. If she chooses to ignore that judgement , then it will give the game away completely.

      Then there are the Salmond revelations. I watched her interview yesterday. I know that she knows something bad is going to happen, but even she doesn’t know. So she just denies the conspiracy. To me Sturgeon is not a loyal friend. She is ruthless and determined. As soon as you do one wrong things you are dumped from a great height.

      It’s all about Nicola Sturgeon.

      We need to get our party back.

    419. Dogbiscuit says:

      Bob Mack bending a sorrowful knee because of something he thinks his ancestors did. Mad craca .

    420. Capella says:

      @ TJenny – yes I get your point. But NS was criticised upthread for saying “No more Tories”. That would get my vote.

    421. Dogbiscuit says:

      Terence Callachan stop being an dick you Sturgeon flunkie .

    422. Capella says:

      @ David – you sound like you’re about 15 and three quarters, so I’ll be kind. You’re talking drivel.

    423. Dogbiscuit says:

      Ayewrite You know fine well that Sturgeon has no interest in Independence you foolish person.

    424. Dan says:

      @Confused at 12.47am

      Re. Your BLM / Duke of Sutherland line. Please furnish me with your postal address so I can send an invoice to you for my time and cleaning products required to remove the muesli from my screen and keyboard.

      Seeing as the boundaries between reality and fantasy are breaking down I think I now grasp the rather long game playing out here.
      Think Game Of Thrones, think of a massive wall forming a natural border, think of that wall being made out of bricks, think of each individual brick being made by laminating 50 mandates together…

      Scottish Society circa 2707 – After 1000 years of Union the Scots had evolved to an average height of just 4 foot 3 inches tall.
      This was as a result of all their time being spent wearing down their feet and legs to stumps by perpetual protest marching and Mandate Farming.

    425. Oneliner says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      He started as an attacker but had to move to defence after crowd interference with his game plan.

      However, one of his fellow defenders was dropped after speaking out of turn. How was he to know that the game was rigged?

      I fully expect him (AS) to re-emerge as an attacking force to the delight of certain sections of the support. It remains to be seen if he has the stamina or appetite for the full 90 minutes.

    426. Dogbiscuit says:

      Tory Government trying time institute dehumanising face masks and physical distancing which is insane and designed to confuse and force conformity.

    427. Dogbiscuit says:

      Nicola Sturgeon the Trans Atlanticist Blairite.

    428. Dogbiscuit says:

      Destroying statues and other artworks is the business of the PolPots of the world. Anyone supporting Antifa supports a Government approved organisation. Climate Change protests are Government approved protests. If you protest against ‘lockdown ‘you’re accused of being a facist.But the real unconcious fascists are imposing self ID Sharia Law and crackdown on freedom of speech Ms Sturgeon. Has the Scunner bent the knee yet?

    429. Dan says:

      @Liz g at 10:44 am

      Good input as I’d expect from yerself.
      You identify the funding aspect as a potential pressure point. I’ve previously highlighted their activists that put in the real graft as another potential lever point to a effect a change in tact.

      The SNP have long used grievance at policies inflicted on Scotland we didn’t vote for as a campaigning strategy.
      That is fine and well when you are in opposition, but now they are in a position of power they are doing exactly the same to us. We could point out that hypocrisy too.

    430. Dogbiscuit says:

      Sharia Law is an enemy bridgehead into our culture. Dont trustthe bent over SNP.

    431. Dogbiscuit says:

      Keep on fooling yourselves until you’re on your knees repeating the Imams instructions before you are killed.Youve seen what happened to a 2000 years old Christian community in Syria.Sturgeon supplied aide kit and other war fighting equipments to foreign Jihadis invading Syria.The Syrian Army stands between civilisation and the ministries darkness of militant Islam.

    432. Dogbiscuit says:

      Monstrous darkness.

    433. Ottomanboi says:

      The current SNP crew may be a megascunner but until there is a palace revolution or a new nationalist party emerges it is necessary to play it cool.
      Unionist subversion should not be discounted, both within and without.

    434. PacMan says:

      @ Dogbiscuit

      I knew I shouldn’t as you clearly are in need of continuing to take your meds but your comments, LOL.

    435. Capella says:

      What is great about Alex Salmond’s slot on RT is that he can use that platform to comment on the direction of travel, either directly or indirectly. The spooks have failed in their attempt to get him imprisoned. RT have stood by him – innocent till proven guilty. He is dangerous enough for other attempts to shut him up to emerge.

      It would be great if the WoS commentariat could keep their nerve for a little longer and try to avoid stabbing each other in the back, metaphorically speaking.

      Re the BLM taking down the Duke of Sutherland – takes me back to the ’60s “Radical Chic and Mau Mauing the Flak Catchers” by Ton Wolfe. A good read.

      What a time to be alive as someone once said.

    436. Proud Cybernat says:

      Joanna for SNP leader!!

      Cherry, that is.

      If Sturgeon does not listen to the people, she WILL be ousted.

    437. PacMan says:

      Oneliner says: 12 June, 2020 at 9:22 am

      Alex Salmond was damaged goods the moment he signed for Russia.

      Why is it that Salmond is ‘damaged goods’ by appearing on a TV channel funded by one state where all those who appear on another state funded channel are not?

      How is TV Licensing funded and what is the cost of collecting the TV Licence fee?

      The revenue source for TV Licensing is the TV Licence fee settlement by the Government to the BBC. More information on this is contained in the BBC Annual Report and Accounts and in the TV Licensing Annual Reviews.

      The TV Licensing Costs of Collection chart, below, sets out the total licence fee revenue collected and collection costs over the last nine financial years.

      Section 365 of the Communications Act 2003 (opens in a new window) requires the BBC to pay all licence fee revenue it collects (via TV Licensing), less any sums required for making refunds, into the Government’s Consolidated Fund. TV Licensing doesn’t retain any of the licence fee revenue it collects; all monies are passed to the Government, and then the revenue collected is passed back to the BBC as Grant-in-Aid from the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (opens in a new window).

      The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport may retain a proportion of the licence fee revenue for other purposes (refer to the BBC’s Royal Charter and Agreement with Secretary of State).

    438. PacMan says:

      David says: 11 June, 2020 at 10:52 pm


      Try Pirate Bay for free version of Microsoft Office

      And remember and get ones that have activation code and serial numbers.

      Cannae beat Pirate Bay

      But don’t tell anybody I told you

      There’s plenty of free and open-source alternatives to the data harvesting ridden nonsense of M$ and their virus ridden copies from the torrents.

    439. Capella says:

      Radical Chic available from the New York Magazine here:

      Mau Mauing the Flak Catchers would also be appropriate since the “hapless bureaucrats” as the critics like to describe the SNP leadership, are still the targets of unfocused wrath. Can’t find a link atm.

    440. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thanks for confirming your ignorant prejudice. 😉

      Fascism, totalitarianism and political religion: definitions and critical reflections on criticism of an interpretation

    441. bipod says:

      I see that nicola sturgeon wants the magic money furlough scheme to be extended past OCTOBER. The UK gov already made the extraordinary decision to extend it to october but she wants it extended even further. What does that tell us about her intentions? That she plans on having house arrest remain in Scotland in some form, and social distancing, for the rest of the year and maybe into the next year.

      Maybe one of her economic advisors should explain to her that having more than half of the workforce sitting idle on furlough won’t save the economy, its a suspended form of unemployment and many companies are already making redundancies despite it. Because all the signalling from NS indicates that they really won’t be able to reopen this summer, or in a profitable form thanks to baseless social distancing guidelines, and perhaps well beyond that. And I see that the finance secretary has also admitted that Scotlands economy will be hit harder and take longer to recover than Englands as a result of nicolas life ruining lockdown rules.

      There is a pattern to the Scottish govs behavior. England eases its lockdown, nicola says its a mistake and there will be a second wave, the NHS will collapse, it will be a catastrophe and thats why she won’t be easing it in Scotland. But then 3 weeks later she does virtually the same thing anyway because there was no second wave because the second wave is a baseless unscientific myth, there isn’t even any evidence to prove that lockdown had any effect on the spread of the virus in the first place. NS has crossed the line between cautious leader and dooms day conspiracy theorist.

      The Scottish gov and there health advisors really need to get out of the bunker and see what is actually going on outside in the real world. People sort of obey the social distancing rules when they are queuing outside of a shop, but as soon as they get inside all that social distancing malarkey goes out the window and people start doing whatever they like. And I don’t think anyone has ever seriously observed the “social bubbles” nonsense.

    442. CameronB Brodie says:

      As if you’re connected with the real world.

      Feminist Standpoint Epistemology: Building Knowledge and Empowerment Through Women’s Lived Experience

    443. CameronB Brodie says:

      Both Joe and bipod appear to think they possess superior knowledge and skills to the professionals trained in protecting public health. As such, they appear to be a couple of rockets who are quite happy to risk endanger life to satisfy their politics. Not the actions of one to be trusted.

      Appraisal as a Political Strategy: Centering
      Our Values on the Oppressed

    444. PacMan says:

      A Person says:11 June, 2020 at 7:50 pm


      A lot of people rely on pubs for their livelihood, directly or indirectly. Also, why shouldn’t people go the pub if it’s safe to do so?

      If it’s safe to open schools it’s probably safe to open pubs- it doesn’t have to be either or!

      I accept the need for lockdown, and have followed the rules, but we mustn’t keep it going just for the sake of it.

      Disregarding drinking troughs like the Whetherspoon type chains, I can’t see how even well run pubs will maintain social distancing protocols after people have a few drinks. It’s going to cause trouble and tying up emergency service resources.

      By all means open up pubs but don’t start moaning when virus transmissons go through through the roof and localised lock-downs needs to be re-introduced.

    445. Republicofscotland says:

      Michael Gove, has just revealed that the UK government will not be seeking an EU extension of any kind.

      Sturgeon must therefore quickly take up Barnier’s offer to discuss how Scotland might be able to find a way to prolong it’s stay in the EU. The Denmark, Faroe Islands, Greenland scenario might give us an avenue to do something positive in prolonging or remaining in the EU, at least I hope it can.

      Sturgeon was adamant and campaigned vigouorsly to remain in the EU, let’s see if she has any mettle left in her to push for what she fooled for only last year.

    446. Sensibledave says:

      These appear to be difficult times for many SNP supporters. Whereas some criticism the SNP received in the past was that the party was made up of “robots” all sticking tightly to the stated policy on any particular thing at any particular time, we are now seeing the inevitable problems arising as a result of the longevity of the party’s existence, its time spent in government and increased demonstrations of diversity of thought on “non-indy” policies.

      Whilst I don’t expect much sympathy, you are now experiencing the issues faced by voters in other parts of the UK. I think I have voted Tory in all GEs but one – but that doesn’t mean that I agree with, will support, or defend every Tory policy or Tory politician. In a GE, in England, in recent years, the choice of Government has been limited to either Labour under Jeremy Corbyn and Socialism – or the Tories. Socialism doesn’t work, has never worked and never will. So for people in England the choice is stark. When Blaire was around, there was the option of the centrist democratic socialism, but that’s gone again now.

      When people in Scotland were able to rally around a disruptive, “single-issue” party, the choices in elections distilled into independence – or not. That doesn’t appear the case now as I read the threads and note the increased disappointment, frustration and, surprisingly, loathing of what the SNP now stands for and has become.

      For what it’s worth, though little comfort, it was inevitable. Over time, and over time where the SNP has been in government, they are now the “establishment” in Scotland. In the course of governing they have to make decisions and laws across the whole range of issues and, inevitably again, there is less consensus on many of those issues as a result.

      Not long ago, the threads here agreed that time was on the side of the SNP as voter oldies died and were replaced bright young things that were more attracted to Independence. But, as it turns out, it seems they are also more attracted to “woke” policies than the oldies. The SNP has to have policies or views on “difficult” issues that are both outside of traditional party politics, so GRA, BAME, Black lives Matter, Statues, etc, as well as the normal stuff like income tax rates, choices on health and education spending, etc.

      In England, if you don’t want socialism or leftie wokeism (?), then you have to vote Tory and accept that you get some things and some people that you are not “for”. In Scotland, at the moment, if you want independence you have to vote SNP – and you also get some stuff you don’t like. Over half of Scotland’s electorate are not going to agree on every policy on every issue.

      As a slight aside, I note here the often referenced wisdom that folk in England or more racist than folk in Scotland. Whether you agree with his politics or not, it is worth listening to Anwar Sarwar’s speech on the subject matter in the Scottish Parliament. The reality is folks, that England has a far higher degree of diversity and integration than Scotland. You need to take a look at yourselves before dishing it out.

    447. Republicofscotland says:

      Toiled for, bloody predictive text.

    448. Oneliner says:


      As far as I am aware, no regions in England were subjected to the ethnic cleansing experienced by the Highland Gaels. There’s a ‘good look’ for you.

    449. Joe says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      This is probably the 5th or 6th time ive actually engaged you in conversation and you have very quickly resorted to labels.

      But that’s to be expected. The critical theory/post modern types typically draw in those with mental problems (no joke or empty insult here, its true) and feed them nonsense wrapped up in veil of academia.

      They (you) act like an avatar or automation – sent out into the world to push the ideology. You don’t have the idea. The idea has you.

      What can you do when someone actually engages you on it?

      Exactly as you do.

      Cheers Cameron.

    450. liz says:

      @ian Brotherhood.
      I also no longer trust the FM.
      She is weaponising Covid. I see I got criticised for my pub comment, but I see it as her micromanaging people’s lives. She loves telling people what to do, whilst hand ringing at the same time.
      I have often thought that some of those who continue to praise her to the skies, are SPADS. After all they need to do something to justify all that dosh

      I also now see people who trusted her advice on Covid are questioning it.
      Like the shielded couple horrified at having to isolate till 31st July, that will not help their health one little bit

      I like many others campaigned for her in all weathers, now I will not do a thing.

      Also the latest FP on the Sun, showing JKRs abuser, and not one single word from our feminist FM in support of JKR, not one. She with her self ID madness have enabled these abusers.

    451. Republicofscotland says:

      For those still wondering how we’ll obtain independence Jim Fairlie, plots a way out of the cesspool that is the union.

      You really should read it.

    452. Bob Mack says:


      So many words___ such little content.

    453. CameronB Brodie says:

      Nice try, but it tends to be English/British gammons who worship Euro-scepticism, not Scottish patriots. So you’re on to plumbs if you want us to believe English culture is less hostile to Others than Scottish culture. It isn’t Scotland re-writing the constitution in a manner that erases knowledge of English culture.

      Ontological Security in World Politics:
      State Identity and the Security Dilemma

    454. David says:


      Please expand on your description of my post when you said I was talking drivel.

      You are the outlier here, you are the halfwit who stands by Sturgeon no matter what

      You are the one who’s bedroom walls are probably covered in Nicola Sturgeon posters

      And talking of age groups, you come across as a 16 year old love struck teenager with an undying love for Sturgeon.

      I am posting alternatives to get us out of the fuckin mess Sturgeon has left us in and all you do is try to run down and critisize anybody who has the absolute cheek to question your wee Nicky.

      Dry yer eyes and start posting relevant solutions to cancel out the Sturgeon mess.

    455. bipod says:

      Are those the same public health professionals that told us that test and trace was totally pointless back in March and is now absolutely essential in June? and they must also be the same ones that thought that moving ill people into care homes was a great idea.

      I don’t think that ruining the economy and shutting down or reducing all NHS services other than those to do with covid,, is a good idea especially when there isn’t a shred of evidence to prove that it made any difference. But we all know that cameron has some funny ideas on what precautionary good governance looks like.

    456. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s because I have absolutely no respect for right-wing rockets, such as yourself.

    457. A Person says:


      Having served my time in that wretched industry back in my salad days I know that it’ll be near-enough impossible to enforce social distancing in a pub, particularly when you consider how entitled people can be.

      However, cases of the virus are very low, and countries which have reopened have not seen a second wave. Meanwhile our economy is being annihilated. Some people (I am not suggesting you) say things like “lives are more important than the economy” but that’s too simplistic- some people in this country haven’t had a penny into their bank accounts since March. The effect on the public finances will be cataclysmic. This will kill many people! This isn’t counting the ruined relationships, relapses into drugs and alcohol, undiagnosed cancers, etc.

      I am no alt-right “lockdown sceptic”. It had to be done to keep the virus under control. Now, however, it must be finished. Bluntly we must protect the vulnerable and run the risk for the rest of us. You could get run over by a bus!

      At this rate Scotland will be the only country in Europe still in lockdown, just so people who get paid a juicy salary once a month can tell themselves that “Scotland cares more”.

    458. A Person says:


      I agree with you.

    459. Joe says:

      @Sensible Dave

      ‘its time spent in government and increased demonstrations of diversity of thought on “non-indy” policies.’

      I have to disagree there (excuse my yoon trolling for a second). The SNP and a large amount of the indy movement have probably the least diversity in thinking outside of an actual religious group that I have ever heard of in Scotland.

    460. CameronB Brodie says:

      Quack all you want, but you can stick the BBC’s interpretation of reality where the sun doesn’t shine. 😉

      Precaution, Prevention, and Public Health Ethics

    461. Allium says:

      @Liz 12.49

      I honestly thought NS would speak out over the unprecedented tsunami of terror and filth that Rowling has been subjected to over the past few days. The fact that she hasn’t is quite astonishing, and very alarming. Is it shame that prevents her, or something else?

    462. David says:

      Sturgeon ALWAYS talks of Scotland in the future tense as still being within the UK.

      Not a peep about the “I” word

    463. Sensibledave says:

      Oneliner 12:37 pm

      You wrote “As far as I am aware, no regions in England were subjected to the ethnic cleansing experienced by the Highland Gaels. There’s a ‘good look’ for you.”

      So, to paraphrase, Scotland’s relative lack of diversity and integration is excusable because of something that happened 250 years ago before any of us, our parents, our grand parents, our great grand parents, etc … were born???

      Please let me know if England should still have have “beef” with the Scandanavians (Vikings), Italians (Romans), French, Spanish, Germany, etc?

      … and grow up!

    464. CameronB Brodie says:

      Oi Dave, are you happy to have Brexit forced on Scotland?

      Brexit, British People of Colour in the EU-27 and everyday racism in Britain and Europe

    465. What do you call it when one country rules another country and decides what happens to it controls it finances and takes it into wars they do not want and out votes it 10 to 1 controls it media and charges them for doing it and talks it down at every turn the small country who has invented most things that are benefiting the world but it is never praised for doing so and are told they are to small to stupid to rule themselves to me that is a form of slavery but hey a black man came from America and told us we should not seek our freedom like his people had done Obamha as we were better of being slaves

    466. Republicofscotland says:

      “As far as I am aware, no regions in England were subjected to the ethnic cleansing experienced by the Highland Gaels. There’s a ‘good look’ for you.”


      The Tasmanians didn’t fair too well either, the British wiped them out and replaced them with sheep. More recently the British kicked out the Chagossians, and replaced them not with sheep, but Americans and their military hardware, sadly many Chagossians have since died due the clearings.

      If memory serves the British are still flouting a UN ruling on International laws with regards to what they did to the Chagossian people.

    467. Ian Brotherhood says:

      NS doing her speech again, with more reassurance that she ‘understands’.

      What she doesn’t seem to understand is that many of us really don’t care any more. The record has been broken beyond repair.

      The criticisms emanating from this and other pro-indy places deserve to be taken seriously. They’re not ‘personal’. (None of us know NS personally, so they can’t be.) The offensive bile she’s been putting up with for the past decade is something she’s lived with and learned to ignore. But ignoring ‘us’ should never be an option for anyone connected with the SNP, or SG generally.

      True ‘friends’ dish it out when they have no option, and there are ways of doing it. But when heartfelt advice and pleas are blanked or simply dismissed, how long can the ‘friendship’ last? Where is the support meant to come from?

      NS has been haemorrhaging support since Jan 31st. The reasons, for anyone who needs a reminder, were laid out right here:

      This article has avoided repeating some exceptionally troubling allegations that were made to us by several high-ranking figures in the independence movement while we were writing it, because we currently have no documentary evidence to verify them. That may or may not remain the case. But it remains the view of Wings Over Scotland that only a complete change of the aforementioned leadership (and its toxically insular and incestuous modus operandi) offers any hope of success in the foreseeable future.

      That was published here on Jan 31st. Four and a half months ago, and almost three of those months have been consumed by the bastarding bug. We still haven’t had anywhere-near full disclosure of what the dogs in the street have known since before AS was acquitted.

      The obfuscation and evasion has to end. From her behaviour on Newsnight she appears to know that the end of this particular stretch in her career is reaching its end, so there’s no reason why she shouldn’t do what she should’ve done the moment AS emerged from that court – stand down.

    468. Polly says:

      Bravo and thank you Bob Mack at 8.51pm. That long term independence supportive women would be accused, especially by some men, of wishing to let tories in or wreck prospects of getting independence because we don’t want to vote for something which will badly affect us has been annoying me for ages. I hate the SNP putting me in a position where I might feel no longer able to vote for them. They have changed, not this website. They did this, not we women. Thank you Bob and Stuart too for making a stand.

    469. Republicofscotland says:

      “What do you call it when one country rules another country and decides what happens”


      We’re a colony, with a colonial police force, government and judiciary that ultimately answers to Westminster, devolution is nothing more than smoke and mirrors hell even a small independence minded enclave in Moldova and Catalonia control their own media we don’t.

    470. PacMan says:

      @ A Person

      Thank you for your reasoned reply.

      Yes cases of the virus may be low but that doesn’t mean that it will flare up again, prolonging the health crisis and putting even more pressure on the economy.

      The argument that it is no longer a problem because it isn’t in other countries doesn’t ring true. These other countries, particularly in Germany, Greece and Portgual put down the groundwork right at the beginning which allowed them to exit from the lock-down with reasonable probability that it won’t flair up again and if so, it can be easily isolated and contained. Compare that to here where the horse already bolted the stable and they haven’t even got a suitable track and trace system in place now.

      That doesn’t mean I agree blindly with the actions of the Scottish government. The previous comment about Mike Russell saying people not wearing face masks being stared down raised alarm bells with me. I can’t help but feel that there is some truth in what commenters in here are saying that the health crisis is being weaponised by the SG. I sincerely hope not but they aren’t helping themselves by that own goal from Russell.

      Of course the economy needs to be opened up but just flinging the doors open to the pubs around the country isn’t the answer especially given how much alcohol is fused into our culture. I am not naive about this. It is going to cause a sort of “eighties/nineties rave culture” where events will be organised in for instance disused warehouses, private land etc.

      People are social animals and need shared experiences as a way to wind down after a hard week at work. It is going to be a hard thing to do in order to balance keeping people safe and allowing people to live their lives. However, blindly attacking the SG for following WHO guidelines as some are doing isn’t the answer. helping.

    471. Beaker says:

      @PacMan says:
      12 June, 2020 at 11:45 am
      @ Dogbiscuit
      “I knew I shouldn’t as you clearly are in need of continuing to take your meds but your comments, LOL.”

      I think he may have overdosed 🙂

      As to ethnic cleansing, I suggest some people read up on history, particularly with some of our European neighbours. Greece and Turkey were at it. Germany started it during WWI.
      You thought the English were bad? Try the Chinese and Russians.

    472. Liz g says:

      Dan @ 11.29
      Thanks Dan… I do think that actively campaigning on… ” Nae Date Nae Dosh ” is something the members could get on board with!
      If most/enough of the Yes movement made it clear they’d get not a penny more from us until we have referendum date to work towards….I’m pretty sure they’re no in a position to keep ignoring us?

    473. Dogbiscuit says:

      Oneliner it was clan chiefs who carried out the ‘clearances’.

    474. Breeks says:

      Problem I have with “Alex Salmond is damaged goods”, is that it’s been lifted straight from the Wokist SNP Song book. Seems to me the people who promote the notion Alex Salmond is damaged goods are the people who want Alex Salmond to be damaged goods. Personally, I think the man is a giant who’s done more for Scotland than anybody else I can think of, and he’s repelled more boarders too.

      Once the lid is blown off this anti-Salmond conspiracy and the truth gets out, , I don’t think the SNP canoe under Nicola Sturgeon’s captaincy will be holding much water. It’s also fired off all of it’s torpedos… and missed.

      It might very well be the case that Joanna Cherry can create some degree of unity while somehow getting Indy back onto the front foot, but frankly, (and particularly if Joanna Cherry opts for a Constitutional Campaign), then the SNP will be needing Joanna Cherry a whole lot more than Joanna Cherry needs the SNP and all it’s acrimonious baggage. But unity? Ha. Dream on. Don’t forget, it’s the shit-stirring SNP Wokists who want Joanna Cherry deselected.

      What do you want Scotland? A ring-side seat in an SNP civil war while Scotland is subjugated and drummed out of Europe? Or “somebody” else untainted by SNP skullduggery, pulling Constitutional levers to actually save Scotland from Brexit, leave the U.K. Union hanging by a slender thread, while the SNP is locked away in a padded cell until it comes to it’s senses?

      For my part, I am Inconsolable, and incandescent with rage, about all the opportunities which have been squandered by the SNP. They are now the last people I would trust to save Scotland from Brexit. I hope against hope there is yet time and opportunity for a Constitutional Backstop to thrust a mighty stick into the spokes of Brexit, but it will require Courage, intent, and constitutional acumen which the SNP doesn’t have.

      Save Our Scotland! Once we’re safe from Brexit behind an internationally recognised Constitutional Backstop, then the SNP can launch it’s mighty punch-up, without dragging Scotland’s sovereign interests into the ditch beside it.

    475. CameronB Brodie says:

      A Person has shown me they poses a low-level of political awareness/honesty. Engage if you want but I doubt you’ll get much sense.

    476. Sensibledave says:

      CBB 12.53

      You wrote “Nice try, but it tends to be English/British gammons who worship Euro-scepticism, not Scottish patriots.”

      Mr Sarwar said …

      “Every Director of a Department in Scotland …. White”.
      “Every Principal of a University or College …. White”.
      “Every Head Teacher in Scotland … WHite”.
      “Every Chair of a Public Sector body … White”.
      “Every High Court Judge in Scotland … White”.
      “Every Prison Governor … White”.
      “Every Editor of every News Organisation … White”.

      Its a stunning list Cammy … and you have the front, without evidence, to express a view that not wanting to be in the EU is “r*****”!

      … NIce try Cammy but a huge “fail” matey. Because of your lack of self wareness, you publicly demonstrate, once again, your own inate bigotry by stereotyping the people of a country (England) simply because they voted a different way to you (and me BTW) in a referendum on the EU.

      You are an embarassment.

      Please explain to me, in these times, how it is, for instance (according to Mr Sarwar) there is not a single non white Head Teacher in the whole of Scotland.

    477. Dogbiscuit says:

      Cameron. It’s Nicola Sturgeon forcing Brexit on us by refusing to consider Independence as a viable option. And of course she works for the banks not us. Watch as she takes up a post at Goldman Sachs as well as her wee UN racket.

    478. gus1940 says:

      Who paid for the statue of Donald Dewar?

    479. CameronB Brodie says:

      Yes, Scotland is still a predominantly white nation, but we don’t worship Euro-skepticism here. That’s an English/British disease that tends to afflict gammons.

      Human security as ontological security: a post-colonial approach

    480. Sensibledave says:

      Cameron 1.42

      Err Cammy, England is still a predominantly white nation.

      Try again.

    481. Dogbiscuit says:

      Barak Obama’s campaign team are rumoured to have been involved in Better Together AstroTurfers Obama pricked the names of his drone victims on a kill list put on his desk.He gets paid a million dollars a speech bullshitting about climate change. Hey you superstitious savages mankind does not control the Sun.

    482. jfngw says:

      @Ian brotherhood

      I prefer to see evidence before I condemn people, so far all we have is the BBC favourite of ‘sources close to’. If they aren’t willing to come into the open then how is their behaviour any better.

      In fact NS now has the perfect get out at the end of the current virus process (it will never end as such but reduce to an acceptable level without a vaccine) as the stress toll has been great and she needs to move on.

      The SNP may be losing members but they do not seem to be losing support, quite the opposite in fact. Will it be sustained, who knows the public are fickle.

    483. Dogbiscuit says:

      Cameron there are a lot of Euro skeptics in Scotland. You have a habit of painting large groups with one big ‘right on’ brush.

    484. CameronB Brodie says:

      Are you still hostile to John Locke and the principles of limited government and equality in law?


    485. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scotland voted to remain, by quite a large margin, did it not?

    486. A Person says:


      I agree with you essentially.

      I find the attitude of some to the lockdown in-nerving. It’s a necessary evil not a positive good.

      You are correct that other countries have handled it better than we have, but does that necessarily mean we will have a second wave if we ease? I’m not an expert in any sense so I don’t know!

      Hopefully pubs etc will be opened as soon as safe.

      Best wishes

    487. Dogbiscuit says:

      This morning I saw a line of older people waiting to get into an empty Scotmid I reminded them that they are living in Soviet style conditions standing in bread lines. Is this the vision Sturgeon has for Scotland? Sturgeon and Bozo Johnson packed care homes full of sick people with tragic consequences.Is that why that skank rat bastard hustler Sturgeon is looking hunted ? Sturgeon is an eejit.

    488. Dogbiscuit says:

      I bet she can’t wait to arrest us for calling her names. Ms Sturgeon. Being a Dictator is not nice.

    489. Dogbiscuit says:

      Sturgeon should take her psychosexual lunatics and fuck the hell off.

    490. CameronB Brodie says:

      A Person
      Are you still ideologically opposed to Foucault, as this suggests to me your politics tend towards the reactionary?

    491. Dogbiscuit says:

      I agree Scotland voted to remain Cameron but that’s beside the point I made. It’s a falsehood to claim there are no Euroskeptics in Scotland.

    492. mr thms says:

      Reports that UK has formally ruled out seeking an extension to the transition period means treaties will cease to apply from the 1st January 2021.

      Article 50 says

      1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

      2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
      negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
      Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

      3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,unanimously decides to extend this period.

      4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

      A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

      5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

      Scotland would need to be independent to formally apply to rejoin the EU, but from the 1st January 2021, the UK government would be free to devolve more powers to Scotland that would not have been permissable under EU treaties, such as VAT.

    493. Capella says:

      @ David – well you don’t talk as much drivel as that obnoxious troll Dogbiscuit that’s true. I won’t get into a fight with you because you are playing a game of “Let’s You and Him Fight” or to be more precise, “Let’s You and Her Fight”. I decline your gambit.

      (Eric Berne – Games People Play)

      TJenny contributes a great deal to the comments section on here and I appreciate that.

    494. Ron Maclean says:

      A number of commenters have given reasons why Nicola Sturgeon should stand down. Here’s another one.

      All First Ministers are, because of the Scotland Act, Regional Governors acting on behalf of Westminster. They cannot take us to independence.

      Leaders of the SNP who are also First Ministers should acknowledge their compromised position and stand down from one of their roles, preferably that of SNP leader. Not doing so raises questions about their integrity.

      The SNP Constitution doesn’t recognise this obvious conflict of interests. It’s time it did. Until it does we’ll continue as Westminster’s ‘slaves’.

      Please note I am putting this forward as a reason not an excuse for betrayal.

    495. CameronB Brodie says:

      You are putting words into my mouth. Of course Scotland has gammons in our population. They tend to be British nationalists though. 🙂

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