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Wings Over Scotland

Underneath the Goodyear blimp

Posted on August 26, 2017 by

270 to “Underneath the Goodyear blimp”

  1. winifred mccartney says:

    Good to hear from you again Stu. Remember we are all behind you.

    So two tory councillors suspended from party for 3 months – reinstated by RD, apparently started ‘diversity’ training, RD goes AWAL then eventually found for TV interview and just hours before TV interview she contacts nil by mouth, curiouser and curiouser. She is then allowed to give a ‘statement’ on BBC and is not questioned at all – this was not being interviewed. The BBC lets RD off the hook and does not ask any questions about the training or the ‘change of heart’ but councillors are reinstated anyway before finishing ‘diversity’ training and starting nil by mouth. They are OK for tory party but one has been thrown out of Boys Brigade.

    Douglas Ross insults gypsies and travellers and then decides instead of them his first priority as PM would be eradicating world poverty – no difference – only proves his ignorance. DR is good enough for Tory Party but SFA is now investigating.

    So 2 racist/bigots allowed back into tory party I think because RD is afraid of by-elections. Douglas Ross gives mealy mouthed apology which makes things worse and continues anyway, RD allows Scotland to be under-represented in Europe because she does not favour the next person on the list and in the meantime RD goes into hiding.

    Ruth Davidson is NOT DOING THE DAY JOB.

  2. Socrates MacSporran says:

    <i.winifred mccartney

    I disagree with your analysis. We are currently focusing our ire on Colonel Bogie and her platoon. Therefore, while we are concentrating on the monkeys, the organ grinder down in Westminster is free to do her worst.

    I reckon Colonel Bogie IS doing the day job – in diverting the attention of the rebellious Sweaties from their real enemies at Westminster.

  3. Dorothy Devine says:

    Winifred , worth repeating your last line,


    No such creature I hear you shout!

  4. Brochan says:

    Can you make links on your page open in a new tab rather than leaving the page? This would leave your page open in a window and stop people having to try to navigate back to it.

  5. Betty Boop says:

    @ winifred mccartney

    That seems like a fairly concise explanation of “Toryland News” – Beeb take note please.

    It would be nice to think that some day, one day, soon, the State propaganda broadcaster would at least make some attempt to ask RD a question instead of letting her make unchallenged statements. They’d have to employ a journalist/interviewer first though.

  6. Bill Hume says:

    Brochan…..right click and choose ‘open link in new tab’

  7. Grouse Beater says:

    The note about economist Richard Murphy is one to follow.

    A non-SNP voter, his entrance to the debate has made credible Scotland’s right to reinstate full self-governance.

    I hope he has convinced non-believers and waverers to rethink their stance. His unchallengeable deconstruction of GERS is a great spur to open democracy.

    Your weekend reading:

    Chimps Galore:
    Debeaking Wings:

  8. Croompenstein says:

    Are you trying to put Nana out of a job Stu.. 🙂

  9. Marker Post says:

    I’m sure we are all waiting to hear the details of how Wings is being “hampered”. I am also sure that the full story will come out in due course, and that Rev will be completely exonerated. Just hang in there, make copious notes, maybe write a book some day about it.

    In the meantime, take a breather, take stock, and prepare for the final push for Yes, because Indy 2 is going to have to happen soon as Brexit is shown to be crazier by the day. And I can’t imagine an Indy 2 without Wings.

  10. At a time when many ordinary people and the decent football supporters want to see the scourge of racism and bigotry eradicated from football.

    It can’t be acceptable for Tory MP Douglas Ross whose views I find repugnant is still involved in the game as a professional referee, even if he has apologised what he has said.

    So I hope the SFA takes away his certification as a professional referee.

  11. Ghillie says:

    There’s a lot going on right enough!

    Good synopsis winnifred maccartney =)

    So true Socrates MacSporran, keep an eye out for what is going on beyond the never ending smog of unionist deceit, racism, and misplacing of their important figures etc etc.

    On the one hand, do not interupt your enemies when they are busy making mistakes.

    On the other hand, when there is an embarassment of mistakes to oggle, mibbee just step back for a moment and have a good look around for the ‘quiet’ activity too.

    OT/ Looks like Texas and neighbouring areas are in for a hell of a bad time. I cannot think of anything I can say or do to make it any easier or safer. Just offer my thoughts and prayers. The storm will pass, hang on.

    Rev Stu, good to hear your voice =) I hear bear patrolling is good for taking your mind off crappy stuff.x

  12. donald anderson says:

    The SFA’s day job has always to support divisive sectariamsm

  13. Capella says:

    Great to get a post Stu. I see that layabout Cairns is sunning himself in Corfu. Has he so shame?

    The Richard Murphy article is stunningly simple and revealing. Look forwrd to the in depth analysis from the media.

  14. mogabee says:

    Jeez, quiet week then! ;D

    I think Socrates is right that Tories would prefer all attention to be diverted from them but they sure are shooting all feet with a blunderbus at the moment.

    Nevermind STories, maybe this week will be better as Corbyn is helping your cause by targetting the SNP rather than yourselves.

    Crazy, crazy, crazy…

  15. Ghillie says:

    Okay. I think I’ve sort of got the gist of Richard Murphy’s thoughts on the Scottish GERS figures.

    And basicaly someone is cooking the books to make Scotland look bad…

    Well! That rings true!

    Sleekit. But not invisible.

  16. starlaw says:

    The SNP are public enemy no one to all West Minster parties, the SNP will end the cushy gravy train provided by London.
    SNP will also finish the Stoat coats handed out in the House of Lords to which every London base party member aspires to. Hardly surprising Labour are attacking the biggest threat to their Jamboree.

  17. Famous15 says:

    Some of the arrogant yoons I have to deal with day to day are losing their patronising smirk when Scotland is discussed. Some are even wondering whether they were right to condemn Indy. The recent headlines on GERS that alleged Scotland is a basket case they now see is overblown propaganda as they see Brexit “looming”!!!

    I would love to tell them to get stuffed for their former stupidity but I remain nice,nice,nice .

    I feel very optimistic. Truth , justice and the Scottish way.

  18. Street Andrew says:

    TotallyUnbelievableMadnessGate. I like it.

    Only trouble is (gee whizz) this sort of bollox is the new believable. Trial by innuendo.

  19. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Anent GERS. I remember, in the run-up to the 2015 General Election, when GERS came up, somebody posted on here, according to Westminster government figures, Scotland and Wales were responsible for some 52% of the UK’s deficit.

    Now, in any business, if two of the smaller units were responsible for more than half the losses, the sensible thing would be to close them down.

    But, Westminster tries to tell us: under our management, you are a loss-making unit, but, out of the goodness of our hearts, we will continue to support you and keep you open – even though you are costing us big time.

    Aye right. Karen Dunbar’s posh Glasgow lady with the sensitive nose comes to mind. I definitely smell shite.

  20. Grouse Beater says:

    Marker Post: “I’m sure we are all waiting to hear the details of how Wings is being “hampered”. I am also sure that the full story will come out in due course.”

    Try the link at 10.04. (Yours, a friend)

  21. Who is Sarah Smith ?

    jeezo they should have asked most Scots not in the leftard Scottish media bubble,

    like the ligger Neil she is certainly getting her bag of silver for services above and beyond to her beloved Union,

    the Queen of Post Truth Journalism and Fake News,

    a hater of all things Scottish,bit like Boswell, a cringer to her very bones.

  22. @donald anderson says:
    The SFA’s day job has always
    to support divisive sectarianism
    26 August, 2017 at 10:14 am

    What you say maybe true, but to
    paraphrase the words to the Corries
    song Flower of Scotland
    We need to ensure that
    Those days are passed now
    And in the past they must remain

  23. auld highlander says:

    Good to see that you are still on the case Rev.

    Re these GERS figures, the government has the power and ability to manipulate everything they want so they well have manipulated these figures too.

    Can we trust the government of the day?

  24. Dan Huil says:

    Don’t forget the cock-up britnats are making of brexit. These britnats can’t help but make enemies. Their only friend is Trump.

  25. Robert Graham says:

    Wings flags well represented in Dunfermline this morning, it’s live on Independence live right now, Have a wee look Ruthe and you will see there is definitely no appetite for Independence .
    I wonder if the BBC will give it a mention, along with their usual Snyde remarks on how many are not there.
    What’s the betting Sarah Smith ain’t there, she will be covering some tiddlywinks contest or something with the same importance to people here .
    Hope the weather is kind to all who are attending today.

  26. Robert Kerr says:

    O/T sorry.

    Had a telechat with a good friend in the Black Country aka W Midlands, aka Mercia,

    Tells me that there are continuous shortages in the supermarkets especially fresh produce.

    BUT….. I won’t see that up here because shortages are alleviated politically for Scotland, Wales and London. No source unfortunately.

    Keep your pecker up Rev Stu!

  27. HandandShrimp says:

    Here is hoping the police or the CPS see this for the politically motivated bitterness that it is and the complainant is sent packing with a flea in her ear.

    In the meantime Kezia trails after Jeremy pretending to care about about his weirdly UKIPPY Brexit notions and Mad Col Ruth McMad does anything but her day job, hoping no one will ask her difficult questions (although her “Oh My God! I’ve left the gas on” run away option is always an option if someone does.) Is Willie Rennie still alive or is he busy triangulating how to say “the police shouldn’t carry arms at public events but terrorism is very naughty” and posting all his FOI requests?

    Scottish politics is returning once again to only one credible option despite the most concerted efforts of the press and TV to oust a democratically elected government in recent western European history. Their efforts hampered by the fact that the alternatives are shockingly poor.

  28. dakk says:

    Good to see you back Stuart.

    You’ve got me stumped with the missing ‘ing’ cryptic headline.

    Too subtle for my mental capacities, I’m afraid.

  29. louis.b.argyll says:

    ..Just hang in there, make copious notes, maybe write a book some day about it.

    Hey, I’ve just had a idea, it’s about a private school where a commoner is indoctrinated into the occultist hegemony of make believe and magic…oh wait, that’s the real world.

  30. Orri says:

    A certain crusading churnalist was earlier in the week boasting on Twitter how she’d managed to get someone done for harassment and offering to share the details.

    Now that may simply be over enthusiasm or it might be an offer of help in making a complaint in a way that the police will pay attention to. More sinister would be seeing it as potentially briefing supporters on what to say in order to back her interpretation of events.

    Sadly not being IT savvy I didn’t make a screen cap and those tweets have disappeared never to be seen again without a court order.

    One thing I did discover is that whilst you can block people from reading your tweets that only works if they have to sign in to see them.

  31. Ian McCubbin says:

    Giod to hear from you Stu. Your supporters wish you well and this one has a painting tribute in exhibition at Birnam Arts called Wings over Scotland. It has 2 Typhoons in Scottish Airforce roundelsa with Wings tail insignia.
    Has had a number of local SNP and Yes folk comment to me.
    So you have followers still who admire your thorough analytical work for the independence cause.

  32. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Orri @ 12:18:

    A certain crusading churnalist was earlier in the week boasting on Twitter how she’d managed to get someone done for harassment and offering to share the details.

    Hmmm. Anyone have any more on this? Relevance to current events?

    It’s an odd world if people whose profession is supposedly to inform the public are instead happily engaged in suppressing honest critical judgement, and actively encouraging the same in others.

  33. John O says:

    Loved the piece on Trump, interesting thanx.

  34. Croompenstein says:


    You’ve got me stumped with the missing ‘ing’ cryptic headline

    That’s Shocking dakk.. 🙂

  35. dakk says:


    I’m feeling an increasing inadequacy with all this cryptology.

    I still don’t get it.Desist toying with me please 🙂

  36. Jack Murphy says:

    Two Tories Battling in Public in a Supermarket near you.Not a pretty sight. 🙁

    “…………………Scottish Daily Express………………..
    …………………..CHEAPER THAN………………………
    ………………….THE DAILY MAIL……………………..”

    Do they not see the irony?
    Rhetorical question,don’t bother answering.

  37. geeo says:

    A certain right wing express churnalist on twitter seems desperate to tell folk something….she is retweeting a post from “Stalking Helpline uk”.

  38. wee bud says:

    They don’t like it up them Stu….

    With Ruth” ex bbc gimp” avoiding the press ,I hope she has set a precedent where Snp hierarchy can just tell msm they are doing a Ruth Davidson if they can’t be bothered getting door stepped..

    Perfect way of avoiding biased reporting or they would have to highlight their media darling..

  39. HandandShrimp says:

    A certain crusading churnalist was earlier in the week boasting on Twitter how she’d managed to get someone done for harassment and offering to share the details.

    It may be a different case because no one has been done for anything in our vicinity. An accusation is being investigated but that is a separate matter. Then again this particular churnalist and truth are complete strangers. It is almost like they watched Damien from Drop the Dead Donkey and thought that was a career template, not damning satire.

  40. Abulhaq says:

    Scottish independence involves a decolonisation of the mind.
    300 years of accumulated mythic, stereotypic programming has to be cleared from the collective psyche.
    Political parties can only do so much, a good deal of the clearing of the junk we have to do ourselves.
    That is the difficult part. Admitting our nation has been played for a sucker for so long and that we have knowingly played along with the scam.

  41. Artyhetty says:

    Good to see another post, 🙂

    The so called UK, (ie, government and establishment) is a rancid, scheming, arrogant, thieving, backward little Britnat tax haven.

    Those who are supposed to represent Scotland, the likes of untRuth, and tail wagging Dugdale, are a disgrace with their determination to deny Scotland’s people a modern, forward looking, life affirming, equal society in which to live. It is pure selfishness that they work for the Britnats in London, and will do anything to stay on the gravy train.

    Scotland has been, and is still being shafted, stolen from, ridiculed, and belittled, it’s been going on for a very long time. People are starting to wake up, especially those who believed the UKOK lies in 2014, and that is why we are seeing the Britnats up the anti.

    Hope the Indy rally in Dunfermline is going well, when I saw a link on twitter other day it completely disappeared before I had time to share it, couldn’t find it again. They can’t keep the people of Scotland in the dark, well, aside more power cuts that is.

    We will get there, independence is the only way for Scotland, nothing else will work for the people of Scotland. England needs to stand on it’s own two feet now.

    Ooohhh, Corbbyiiinnn, we don’t believe a word you say, and you are a disgrace for campaigning against our democratically elected government. All while supporting and allowing the tories to attack our most vulnerable, our poorest, all of our human rights, our environment, our kids’ futures and our democracy. Shame on you, you and your pretendy lefty, champagne socialism make me sick.

  42. crazycat says:

    @ dakk

    Add “ing” to word number 8 in the headline in the link.

  43. dakk says:


    Ok thanks.Got you now.

    I seldom click on links(short of time).I thought ‘blimping’ had some cryptic significance.

    Stu will be unamused.Must try harder.

  44. gus1940 says:

    Are there any campaigning female ‘journalists’ who have ever been anagrammed?

  45. yesindyref2 says:


    Lisa-Jo Runts?

  46. heedtracker says:

    Nil By Mouth have reportedly denied Ruth Davidson’s claim that they’d been in discussions with the two Tories who were suspended, then readmitted, over racism and sectarian bigotry

    Colonel Ruth’s such a con artist. Mike Gove says she says future PM of the UK zone, hopefully rUK. Christ imagine the relief getting independence for Scotland and that fuckwit heading to rWestminster.

  47. geeo says:

    The problem for labour, is that they claim to be democrats when accepting brexit as the ‘will of the people’, yet are not even close to being democrats where Scotlands people CHOOSE a democratic pathway.

    6 months old, but a timely reminder of how labour are just desperate unionists with a different colour rosette attached.

    Corbyn tries to lecture Nicola Sturgeon by saying this….

    “She should listen to the people and respect democracy” rather than agitating for another vote on Scotland’s future”.

    Corbyn of course is WELL AWARE that the Scottish people VOTED for a referendum if specific conditions were met, which they were. That is not ‘agitating’ for a referendum, that is DELIVERING the DEMOCRATIC will of the people.

    As such, by putting the mandated (by the electorate) referendum on the table, “listening to the Scottish people” is EXACTLY what Nicola is doing.

    She IS implementing to DEMOCRATIC WILL of the people of Scotland.

    Corby and labour (and other unionists) have a damn cheek talking about democracy.

    None of them are democrats, a democrat would NOT try to deny the democratic wishes of Scotland, which is exactly what they are trying to do by denying the will of the Scottish PEOPLE and the Scottish Parliament by trying to refuse a referendum.

    Make no mistake about it, Scotland WILL be having an independence referendum, it is LEGALLY mandated by both the people of Scotland AND our Parliament.

    U.N. charter 1514 article 3, fully backs a referendum at the time of OUR choosing.

    3. . Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

    Unionists can stamp their wee feet and strop all day long, but a referendum IS happening.

    To refuse it is to be in breach of U.N. charters and opens the door for the SG to declare the union as dissolved, and ask the U.N. to recognise Scotland as independent.

    If Scotland can show that we tried all reasonable methods to become independent, and were denied democratic choices by WM, the U.N. MUST support their own charters and back any Scottish declaration of independence.

    You can bet your boots the SG has already spoken to the U.N. about this possibility should WM continue to deny democratic choice to Scotland on this issue.

    The union is dead, we are just waiting for a date to bury it’s stinking, rotten corpse.

    Ironically, having a referendum is their ONLY hope of keeping their union intact, yet they try to deny one.

    Do not be fooled.

    They WILL agree to a referendum, what we see now is an attempt at undermining the Yes campaign before the main event.

    Desperate death throes from ‘Perfidious Albion’.

    We ARE winning folks, keep the faith.

    Corbyn and his faux tories can go fuck themselves. Scotland does not want them.

  48. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Re the Sarah Smith thing, it seems that the powers-that-be have now decided that Rude Gal and her right-wing cronies can’t actually hack it for the Union in Scotland, so they are switching to support Labour instead, which still expects another UKGE in October, apparently.

    JC will be their anointed saviour in Scotland, they think, and Sarah Smith presumably his prophet.

  49. Cactus says:

    Greetings fae a big park in sunny Dunfermline!

    Can you land the Cargobob on the blimp?

    Has been a busy few days.

  50. heedtracker says:

    JC will be their anointed saviour in Scotland, they think, and Sarah Smith presumably his prophet.

    Going to miss old Ligger though. Those hair do’s were really fun, like the worst ever ad for Justformen, ever. Want to look like a garden gnome in a funny wig? Get some just Justforliggers hair dye.

  51. winifred mccartney says:

    When JC manages to get in England everything the snp have done in Scotland, no bedroom tax, free tuition, free prescriptions, no bridge tolls and the many other great things snp have done then we might start to rate him. These have never been labour policy.

    In the meantime can he explain why labour abstained on welfare cuts, and Murphy, Curran, Brown, Darling, Alexander could not even be bothered to turn up to vote on equal pay for women.

    Then Glasgow City Council on equal pay for women, they have taken them through every obstacle and it took an snp led council to give the janitors their pay rise and get the women equality. And don’t even start me on North Lanarkshire Council and the fact that labour have gone in with the Tories in Aberdeen and Edinburgh – they are one and the same.

    JC lost my respect when he backed Trident and did not put a whip on the vote – first big test and he failed miserably. Put the new Trident on the Thames – it is so safe afterall.

  52. manandboy says:

    At this time, when the British Establishment is fighting for its very survival, all the Westminster political labels are pretty well redundant. They are now all together in one combined Unionist effort to secure their future by preventing Scotland’s independence.
    The Establishment will survive leaving the EU ; it will NOT survive Scotland leaving the Union and taking all its vast wealth with it. They know this, hence the total propaganda war against Scotland which we have to endure daily.

    We are on the road to Independence. Drive carefully.

  53. Thomas Potter says:

    Desperate times for a desperate bunch.
    The Unionist Britnat fascists realise we are well into the end game so let’s buckle up.
    It’s gonna get bumpy.
    Co-ordinated smear campaign against the just the start of it.
    Hold the vision.
    Indy is coming and it’s unstopable

  54. Bill McDermott says:


    I am trying to make sense of this woman Siobhan MacFadyen. Her profile says nothing about where she was born or what influenced her politics.

    With her name, she is bound to have a Ulster connection. Is she in fact a born and bred Ulster Unionist?

    Her complaint seems to be absolutely vexatious, so much so that I think she should be charged for wasting Police resources.

  55. call me dave says:

    Good to see Rev posting another link.
    Been reading every post for the last few days.

    Enjoyed the SNP Dunfermline link. Thanks for that.

    O/T Footie:

    Offside… say Celtic’s Craig Gordon but oor favourite MP who’s posing as a linesman says it’s a St Johnstone goal.
    BBC shortbread cry foul!

    Dubious but Dougie Ross on his big day never flinched. 🙂

  56. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Bill McDermott @ 15:48,

    I don’t think it’s appropriate to speculate here on the involvement of any specific person. All will be revealed in due course, I expect.

    However in the past I have also wondered about the background of that particular individual, and what if any undeclared influence it may have had on her writing.

  57. Dr Jim says:

    To echo Robert J. Sutherland

    Please don’t use names it’ll do Stuart no good
    Don’t do it!

  58. clipper says:

    Like most (or at least many) English lefties, Corbyn is at heart, when it comes to Scotland, a british nationalist parasite and hypocrite. Freedom For Everywhere!….. except Scotland. All those “educated” middle class liberals know full well that without Scotland’s resources and revenues to leech from England is bust.

    Corbyn in his arrogance comes here to try to challenge SNP held seats – though not blue tory ones of course – and says that the democratically elected SNP government isn’t “mitigating” the effects of WM imposed austerity enough.

    This shows with crystal clarity that Corbyn is either:
    a) A liar
    b) A fool
    c) Both

    Take your pick.

  59. jfngw says:

    Herald exclusive, Sturgeon appears with courtroom liar. Alternate headline if she had refused invitation, Sturgeon snubs Pakistan community. It’s a win-win headline situation for the SNP hating Herald.

  60. ScottishPsyche says:

    Glad to see even sporadic posts. It must be incredibly soul sapping, the absolute crap that is being posted left, right and centre. Every nasty wee ‘tricoteuse’ trying to have their say.

    Happy to keep reading and visiting the site regularly.

    I see the FM and Corbyn will be at the Govanhill Against Racism festival tomorrow, with the FM opening it and Corbyn doing a speech. Hopefully, the event goes well for both and it is not hijacked by anyone trying to make party political capital.

    Although I hope there are enough supplies of Brasso should Ruth Davidson turn up.

  61. Alex Clark says:

    Reading that Richard Murphy link and the GERS article it looks like the mythical Scottish £15 Billion deficit is starting to unravel.

    At least I hope it is since it’s a total distraction from the main purpose of Independence anyway which is our right to chose how Scotland will be run and who her government will be.

  62. Fionan says:

    dakk at 12.13pm
    That’s shocking that you can’t see the headline ‘ing’!:)

    Good to see you back, however briefly, Stu, they cant keep a good man down.

  63. ScottishPsyche says:

    Meant to say I wonder if Andrew Neil was a bit miffed that so many people were earning so much more than him?

    He is a zoomer extraordinaire and has done his bit for the Union but to earn less than Matt Baker and Jeremy Vine?

  64. Arthur thomson says:

    Thank you for the links. Really interesting.

    I have been reading Wings for years now and never had that ‘something isn’t quite here’ feeling. I have also read the Wings twitter account and found it robust but no more than that.

    Clearly there are people who are out to destroy Wings. We have to do whatever we can to try to ensure they don’t succeed. In any case their miserable efforts are too late. Wings has opened the eyes and minds of people and they won’t be closed.

    What critics of Wings fail to understand is that Stuart works as a facilitator, an enabler, not a font of knowledge. People who access Wings are not open to being told what to think – we are by definition people of independent mind, we are people who think for ourselves. Wings provides a place for us to congregate and share thoughts, only some of which are contributed by Stuart. For my part, I am disdainful of the trolls and detractors. Sad people who can’t handle difference.

    Stay strong Stuart.

  65. yesindyref2 says:

    I don’t live in Quebec and don;t know the rights and wrongs of Independence of them, but they had two referendums, One in 1980 40.4% YES, 59.6% NO. And 1995 49.4% YES, 50.6% No.

    The first near double the winning margin for NO than ours, the second very close. But it’s the gap between the two – 15 years. And 17 years has passed – no 3rd referendum. Why? Perhaps the gap between their Ref 1 and Ref 2 was too large, givng time for support that had been there, to drop away and get totally frustrated – maybe even people moving. No idea.

    Then there’s the Irish Lisbon Treaty referendums. First in 2008, second in 2009 – 1 year apart – totally different result. Why? Just 1 year clearly wasn’t too short a time to leave it! I think if the SNP leave it too long people will lose interest, activists will die of boredom, or just die.

  66. yesindyref2 says:

    Ooops sorry, wrong tab and wrong thread!

  67. Famous15 says:

    The Daily Express,the Beaverbrook love child is so often concered with the health issues that may be frightening for its readership. Mental health is an issue dear to its heart. Many of its writers are familir with this issue as many experienced such problems in their own lives.

    The problem for them is to know when to offer support to their staff rather than letting the whole world know their problems. I like that they focus on dementia but that is not the only problem.

  68. Brian Powell says:

    Corbyn is here as a colonial apologist. He is backing Brexit, where the UK turns its back on other races, but turns up at Govanhill Against Racism.

    He stands with the Tories in opposing Scottish Independence. No difference in them.

  69. colin alexander says:

    The SNP made a clear manifesto promise of “a referendum”.

    If no referendum and nothing even better comes from the SNP, then many people like me won’t be voting SNP in 2021 or at any other time any longer – and I’ve nearly always voted SNP since I was old enough to vote.

    The SNP didn’t win a majority last time, so don’t rate their chances under those circumstances.

    Last chance saloon for the SNP.

    Ms Sturgeon please take note and do something about it or be prepared to become ex-leader of the opposition at Holyrood.

  70. Rock says:


    “Herald exclusive, Sturgeon appears with courtroom liar. Alternate headline if she had refused invitation, Sturgeon snubs Pakistan community. It’s a win-win headline situation for the SNP hating Herald.”

    Buy the fake “independence supporting” The National to keeps its elder sister, The Herald, alive.

  71. izzie says:

    This is scary an ‘UTTER DISGRACE’

  72. Robert Peffers says:

    @donald anderson says: 26 August, 2017 at 10:14 am:

    “The SFA’s day job has always to support divisive sectariamsm”

    In fact the SFA are the direct result of divisive sectarianism and will remain so as long as there are both Celtic & Rangers Football clubs dominating the sport.

  73. Gary45% says:

    As Stu is still getting grief, there must be an election coming, hence the valuable time the Empires lackeys are using to waste Stu’s time.
    On a happier note, just had a wee look at MSM headlines.
    The “star???” studded line up for this years Empire TVs finest “strictly come garbage” features a star?? called Susan Calman!!!.
    And MUGS still pay for the TV licence!!!

  74. colin alexander says:

    Corbyn is right. The SNP haven’t done enough to combat austerity.

    That Corbyn’s Labour Party voted FOR those austerity policies in the first place is no the point.

    Under the SNP publicly funded executives are on mega-salaries and looking for more while ordinary workers had their pay frozen or 1% pay cap by the “non-interventionist” SNP.

    I’m no saying they’ve done nowt. They compensate for the bedroom tax and promote the real Living Wage, but continue to plough money towards those that already have plenty.

    Money that could have gone towards improving life for the poorest without seriously affecting the already well off.

  75. Col says:

    I think in the event of a second lost referendum the SNP should state that every election there in if there is a majority for the party it will be taken as a mandate to end the union with England. The unionists will go nuts as they always do but it would keep the dream alive for future generations

  76. Famous15 says:

    Colin Alexander back on shift and talking utter shite. You cannot vote SNP in Cheltenham so gies a rest!

  77. defo says:

    Ah. I had her down as trouble.
    She’ll be shown up. v publicly.
    And, of course, some mud will stick. As is the point.

  78. defo says:

    Is this some sort of initiation rite site for the 77th’s newest ?
    You should feel flattered Stu.

  79. Bob p says:

    On yersel stu ????

  80. Bob p says:

    Don’t know where the question marks cam from . full steam ahead stu ???

  81. mike d says:

    Colin Alexander. 6.23pm “the snp haven’t done enough to combat austerity “. What! With the handout they get from westmidden. You have got to be extracting the urine,you 77th a**e hole you.

  82. colin alexander says:

    Good post Col. But Why wait? They could be saying now that a vote for the SNP is a vote for indy from now on.

    But they’re too busy seeking terms of surrender for Scotland’s forced removal from the EU.

    And maintaining charitable status for fee paying private schools, such is the “progressive policies” of the SNP.

  83. mike d says:

    Col 6.26pm yes sir,they should nail our colours to the mast. A majority vote for the snp,Is a mandate for independence. It’s called democracy.

  84. louis.b.argyll says:

    Corbyn in Scotland, is an establishment mouthpiece.

    Anyone heard anything progressive from him?

    You know apart from SNP policies.


    Has he said ANYTHING enlightening, that’s actually feasible.

  85. North chiel says:

    Corbyn has a ” brass neck” coming to Scotland and asking the Scottish government to do
    more to combat ( Labour& Tory) austerity. He is a fully paid up member of the ” Britnat establishment” who has ” Kow towed” to the Westminster imperial rulers and having signalled to them the necessary compliance on Scotland ( regional status only) Brexit, trident, etc. he has bowed and scraped sufficiently now to be considered possibly to be given the keys to no. 10 when the Tory junta decide to ” bail out” & ” drop him in it”.This will probably happen when our FM decides to pick a ” showdown” with Teresa May and sets a date for Indyref2. A Tory led ” better together2″ campaign ( Teresa& The colonel” ) could struggle , and if the “yes” campaign appears to be ahead, then very probably TM will call a general election ( ahead of the referendum date) and the state propaganda apparatus will ensure that the ” establishment 2nd eleven ” will be returned to downing st. with ” federal Devo super duper home rule to the max” under the new Westminster ” socialist” ( don’t make me laugh) government.
    As I said previously , the ” reserve Westminster gov” doesn’t get the keys to no. 10 unless they have indicated ” full compliance” to the ” Britnat establishment agenda”.
    Of course in Scotland, Corbyn will be projected as the great new left wing radical socialist PM ( until the ” money men” in the City spell out the harsh reality of a bankrupt post Brexit England).
    ” We love you Scotland please don’t leave” . Remember your ” socialist brothers in Liverpool , Manchester, Birmingham etc.

  86. mike d says:

    These barstewards will never beat you stu,with their brit ways. We all know how how they operate.

  87. Famous15 says:

    How can the Cheltenham brigade sleep at nights? They destroy democracy and pretend virtue.

    Why should my taxes pay for this? Gers supposed black hole filled by not paying for stuff Scotland neither needs nor wants!

    G3 over and out.

  88. colin alexander says:

    @mike d

    Shame then the SNPs policy was Keep Scotland Strong At Westminster at GE 2017.

  89. colin alexander says:

    And if Labour are Unionist swines why is the FM always sooking up to them with the “progressive alliance” spiel?

  90. louis.b.argyll says:

    If we ignore Westminster, will they go away. NO.
    Will Colin Hopefully.

    Hope over sneer folks.

  91. colin alexander says:


    Oh dear, nobody wants to debate, cos they know its uncomfortable truths.

    Tasmina and Thompson. Progressive Left? Hahaha.

  92. starlaw says:

    Corbyn comes to Scotland to promise us the PAST.

    Scotland wants the FUTURE

    Advance Scotland never look back.

  93. Capella says:

    BBC radio 3 from the Proms now playing The Bohemian Reformation, a programme of Czech music affirming their independence.

    Meanwhile – Craig Murray’s recent post about Culloden is a good read. Corrects many of the historical lies we’ve been fed for so long.

    “Scottish Jacobites wanted above all an Independent Scotland. The first major act of the Jacobites on taking Edinburgh was to repeal the Act of Union. Prince Charles Stuart, acting as Regent for James VIII, on 9 October 1745 did formally repeal the Act of Union. That’s something they didn’t tell you in school.”

  94. ScottishPsyche says:

    The cynic in me feels there will be lots of photos of crowds and choruses of ‘Oh Jeremy Corbyn’ tomorrow as SLab claim people are there to see Corbyn alone as he makes another content free speech.

    As we see heard today Corbyn avoided confirming he would even lift the Benefit freeze. In the meantime, the SNP get berated for not being the Socialist government they never claimed to be. The Left tend to want centralised policies to have someone to blame. For example, why do all the Councils not increase Council tax having had the freeze removed? For many of them, they do not want to be seen to be asking for money from people who vote for them, yet they want the SG to take the money instead.

    We are dealing with a UK government who want to make out the SNP could mitigate everything it does only to do their damnedest to claw that money back elsewhere. They cut and wait to see how the SG will react and then cut again or change the rules. All the time Unionists foment dissent and disillusionment.

    However, every tax increase in Scotland has to be viewed as a give AND take because we just don’t have full control over the consequences.

    Those who want Income tax rises now may be the ones who want the SG to fail. I am more than happy to pay more tax after we are independent and I know where the money goes.

  95. colin alexander says:

    @Rock, You say people should not buy the (fake) independence supporting The National?

    Is that a bit like: Since 2014 We’ve aw been supporting the (fake) independence supporting (fake) progressive Left SNP?

    I accept, the SNP are Left of the Tories, but so was Mussolini.

  96. Robert Peffers says:

    @Artyhetty says: 26 August, 2017 at 1:32 pm:

    “The so called UK, (ie, government and establishment) is a rancid, scheming, arrogant, thieving, backward little Britnat tax haven.”

    It is a well recorded historic fact, Artyhetty.

    I commented upon the fact yesterday on Wings.

    Google, “Perfidious Albion”, and note that the phrase has been translated into at least every major language on Earth.

    Yet who, besides we Scots, should know them best for what they are?

    Mind you the phrase, and my own interpretation of it, casts no aspersions whatsoever upon the normal common people of England/UK/Britain, but only upon the elite rulers and governments of that country/Kingdom, well known as perfidious since around 54 BC and the dawn of the written history of Britain. and thus from even before the birth of Jesus Christ.

    Here’s a Wiki article about it:-

    And here’s a cut & paste of how the Wiki article begins:-

    The use of the adjective “perfidious” to describe England has a long history; instances have been found as far back as the 13th century. A very similar phrase was used in a sermon by 17th-century French bishop and theologian Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet.

  97. Hamish100 says:

    Susan calman the unfunny comedienne of infamous daddy sellout calman commission.

    I have never seen her with Ruth Davidson at the same time. Mini wee Tory with mini wee Labour Tory yet they are uncannily the same.

    Dolly the sheep was not the first clone it appearrs. ?

  98. Hamish100 says:

    Rock of many ages.

    Don’t buy the National…. don’t don’t. He says ad nauseum

    He reads the guardian of course and the Torygraph all well known for their pro Scotland views.

    Sorry rock your well between yourself and a hard place.

    Are you sure your not tom Gordon? Lol

  99. colin alexander says:


    I agree, the Councils won’t raise Council taxes to pay to improve the lot of the poor who are most reliant on public services, despite the SNP being “the biggest party in 16 of the 32 council areas and joint largest in a further three”.

    Nowt to do with the SNP that. Hmmmm

  100. Ian Brotherhood says:

    If Rock turned out to be a phoney would that make him a shamrock?

    Ah’ll get ma leprechaun suit…

  101. ScottishPsyche says:

    I am well aware that the SNP councils are as guilty as anyone else what I am pointing out is there are other means to raise money as well as Income Tax.

    Where did I say it was nothing to do with the SNP?

  102. yesindyref2 says:

    ..-. ..- -.-. -.- / — ..-. ..-. / .-. — -.-. -.- / .- -. -.. / -.-. — .-.. .. -.

  103. TheWasp says:

    Does any Scottish person use the word NOWT, as featured in posts by Captain Alexander?

  104. ScottishPsyche says:



    .. / .- –. .-. . . .-.-.- / … — / ..-. . -.. / ..- .–. .-.-.-

  105. TJenny says:

    Ian B – I think he may be a bit of a rimrock as he mostly talks out of his ****.

    ps – I now have strange visions of you in green tights – hmm, nice legs. 😉

    pps – for those asking about L-A, saw a post from her on Grouse Beater’s ‘Debeaking Wings’ post, so still around.

  106. Surely when the SNP won the56 seats for Westminster that was a mandate for independence ??? But for some reason it did not happen why ? I have given up trying to understand the workings of the SNP I am honestly baffled by their ways or lack of them but I will always support them as my dream like most of you is Scottish Freedom and they are the only party who will deliver it

  107. colin alexander says:

    @ScottishPsyche Fair’s fair, indeed you didnae say it was nothing to do with the SNP.

    Respect for that.

    I wish some others would stop their apology / denial speeches for when the SNP get it wrong as well as praise when they get it right.

  108. Ken500 says:

    Increase council tax? How much money are the councils wasting in groteque projects of no value, and cutting essential services.

    Aberdeen City Council has wasted £200million on a groteque monstrosity ruining the City Centre. No one wanted. They have shut the Art Gallery and spent £Millions wasted. Now they are cutting £125Million. Cutting jobs and services. They are a disgrace. The money they have wasted. They have changed the times of the council meetings to accommodate Mason, a two jobs Tory. To keep the Tory/Labour coalition in power. The SNP are the largest group,

    The Trams are under subscribed. OAP’s from other cities/places can’t use their off peak (bus passes) on the Trams, which were supposed to benefit the whole of Scotland.

  109. colin alexander says:

    @The Wasp: Ah huv nuhin tae say tae ye, cos yer talkin keech, garbige and mince.

    Is that pure enough Glaswegian fur ye?

    Talking of keech, garbige and mince, Did I tell you the SNP’s last campaign slogan: Keep Scotland Strong at Westminster.

    Just how wrong is that in several ways?

  110. Croompenstein says:


    Surely when the SNP won the56 seats for Westminster that was a mandate for independence ??? But for some reason it did not happen why ?

    FFS Blair.. 18th Sept 2014 Scotland voted No.. remember that ?

  111. colin alexander says:

    @ Ken500, I agree Councils can waste a tremendous amount of money – in lining executives and others wallets.

    Look at Glesga City Cooncil, more execs on £100,000 than any other cooncil in the UK.

    Well, that was the case till the SNP became the biggest group, but since they took over….

    Though, mibbies they are still trying to count all the backhanders and slush funds that occurred under Labour, so I can understand they might be busy for some time to come.

  112. yesindyref2 says:

    – …. . -.– / .- .-. . / .-.. .. – – .-.. . / -.. .. -.-. -.- …

  113. colin alexander says:

    Croompenstein said: “FFS Blair.. 18th Sept 2014 Scotland voted No.. remember that ?”

    Blair has a very good point.

    And since then Scotland voted Remain and the SNP promised an indyref if that happened.

    Since then the SNP have won several other elections. What’s happened since: the SNP have tried to negotiate themselves out of that indyref commitment, begging the UK Govt for Single Market concession deals.

    So, what’s your point about the 2014 NO vote? History lesson, what? Please expand on it if you can, ta.

  114. Croompenstein says:


    And since then Scotland voted Remain and the SNP promised an indyref if that happened

    Be more alert Colin, we are still in the EU…

  115. One_Scot says:

    If it looks like a dick and sounds like a dick…, well I’m sure you know the rest. Just don’t feed the dick.

  116. Ann says:

    People still with you Rev. Wings flag at today’s Rally and March in the Kingom?

  117. James Barr Gardner says:

    Great day in Dunfermline today, great to see thousands of smiley faces.

  118. galamcennalath says:

    Capella says:

    Meanwhile – Craig Murray’s recent post about Culloden is a good read. Corrects many of the historical lies we’ve been fed for so long.

    That certainly is a different version from the one we have all had rammed down our throats!

    He is right, in that victors always get to write history, and their version talks themselves up and the losers down.

    It shows that iScotland will need to make sure that events during times like 1745 and 1820 are researched, written and taught properly without bias and propaganda.

  119. heedtracker says:

    This is a good read, with this kind of writing I really like. All regimes fall, all peoples change.

    “Hollywood’s new hero is often one who must dramatically capitulate with an evil, hegemonic regime to stand against it. In the latest re-telling of the anti-fascist fable Star Wars, a hero must invent and build the fascist Death Star in order to destroy it. In the children’s story, The Hunger Games, the would-be revolutionary Katniss must do everything the regime tells her so that she may ultimately effect its annihilation. And indeed, in the previously mentioned Anonymous-inspired T.V. series Mr. Robot, the main character, a revolutionary hacker, works in a cubicle job in service of an evil corporation (so tired is this cliche it must be playfully named “Evil Corp”) that dominates almost all aspects of life.

  120. Chang Sha says:

    Try right clicking on the link & choose for yourself what to do from:
    Open link in new tab
    Open link in new window
    Open link in new private window

  121. Dorothy Devine says:

    James Barr Gardner, any photos?

    Did the sun shine ?

  122. yesindyref2 says:


    Gentry fearing revolutionary horrors recruited militia and the government deployed an apparatus of spies, informers and agents provocateurs to stamp out the movement.

    Some things never change.

  123. Capella says:

    @ galamcennalath
    “do not teach their history”

    @ indyref2
    “emphasize their customs are primitive”

    Still on the case.

  124. Cactus says:

    Cheers to the people of Dunfermline today, excellent host.

    In reference to Cargobob n Blimp.. here’s the thing:

    Guest appearance by Peter Griffin.

  125. galamcennalath says:

    Capella says:

    Still on the case.

    Hope you can firm up on a definite reference for the quote.

    Of course, it seems highly possible that Reinhard Heydrich devised his plan by studying the techniques deployed by the UK! He only needed to study the masters!

  126. Legerwood says:

    Looks like Labour is changing its position yet again on Brexit.

    From the on line Guardian tonight

    Interestingly the article says that the shadow cabinet signed off on this on Thursday. JC in Scotland then so wonder if he knew?

  127. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 20:12,

    – … -.- .-.-.- / …. . …. / …. . …. .-.-.-

  128. yesindyref2 says:

    RJS 🙂

    Here’s an old article from John Jappy found via Richard Murphy’s blog.

  129. HandandShrimp says:

    What are the odds on the latest Labour Brexit stance making it to the end of the year?

  130. Croompenstein says:

    Hold the front page… Neil Findlay’s written a book… 😕

  131. Capella says:

    @ galamcennalath – Hitler certainly claimed to have got the idea for concentration camps from the British in South Africa in the war against the Boers. Hotly disputed, of course. Not a pretty sight:

  132. geeo says:

    Breaking news…labour now support staying in single market during transition period…!!

  133. Cactus says:

    Scottish referendum deadline.
    Time left to Vote Yes:
    580 days (max)

    Where does the time go? (forward to the future:)

    Auld Lang Syne.

  134. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 23:22,

    Actually, I think these kind of comparative graphs are by far the most convincing antidote to the likes of GERS for the ordinary person in the street. People can assimilate this kind of thing in an instant without any assistance.

    (That is not to decry in the least a more forensic approach by anyone suitably qualified to get to the bottom of the whole thing, as a suitable backdrop. Prof. Murphy’s latest thoughts on the matter are particularly interesting.)

  135. Smallaxe says:

    .– .- – -.-. …. .. -. –. -.– — ..- – .– —


  136. Cactus says:

    Haud on a minute.

    “Brexit Deadline
    Time left to reach a deal

    Should that no be:
    “Time left to negotiate withdrawal

    Like normal countries would do.

    They’re SO negative.

  137. Cactus says:

    All them dots look dashing.

    Zat Inspector Morse..?

  138. Grouse Beater says:

    Sunday reading:

    If you’re wondering who’s out to get Wings:
    If you don’t care who’s out to get Wings:

  139. Cactus says:

    Good morning Grouse Beater ~

    Wishing ye well.

    Awe ra best.

  140. Grouse Beater says:

    Ta, Cactus, you too, ya prickly character! 🙂

  141. James Barr Gardner says:

    Dorothy Devine says:
    26 August, 2017 at 10:24 pm
    Dry from 11am then about 1.00pm very fine drizzle till about 1.30pm then the Sun brought the temperature up to about 21 deg C, too hot to wear my new Wings bunnet! All in all a pretty damn fine day for the weather. A lovely view from Pittemcrief Park down to th Forth and the new Queensferry Crossing. As for pics there were a lot of folk taking stuff so I guess it will be on facebook in the coming days, the stuff on stage was was videoed as well. I was pre-occupied carrying a big Saltire & a Wings flag. All in all an uplifting day.

  142. Cactus says:

    Howsabout an early morning song:

    It’s been a good year…

  143. Meg merrilees says:

    Congratulations to all Dashing Wingers dotted about Dunfemline toon on Saturday afternoon.


    Only 3 days till the new bridge is opened.

    Fascinating article Grouse Beater – explains a lot!

  144. Artyhetty says:

    Re Capella@11.48pm

    I thought that was common knowledge. The Brits invented the concentration camps during the Boer war.

  145. Cactus says:

    Hey Meg merrilees x ~

    “Only 3 days till the new bridge is opened.”


    See when yer driving over… give 3 wee toots of yer horn.

    One for each peak.

    Make it yer own.

    Your bridge.

    I passed by our newestest bridge today, looks gorgeous 😉

  146. Artyhetty says:

    Labour? What, they have changed their minds again, if we can say, minds. More like mindless.

    Wouldn’t trust any of them em to put my rubbish oot. Sleekit gits.

  147. Famous15 says:

    Dunfermline fair saw oot yon Corbyn.Chancer.

  148. yesindyref2 says:

    Concentration camps – the Americans used them before the Boer War, for the native Americans. But it’s either the Romans or Greeks (I forget) who also used them, and chances are the Persians, Babylonians, Incas …

    Yes, graphs or diagrams are good. Fortunately for us a certain grapher goes so overboard it destroys his cooker with spaghetti all over it. Clean up on ring 2.

  149. Col says:

    It’s an ever interesting picture in my head from reading over the years that Scotland is being taken for a ride so to speak over its finances. If we were in a union of equals we would have access to the accounts but we don’t. We never can gain access to OUR accounts so what the F are we doing here? Why do we not question these things continually and put Westminster on the back foot for a change? I know the SNP think they’ve asked all the pertinent questions but maybe the key is in applying constant pressure and maybe just getting a wee left hook in there from time to time. The SNP has some amazing politicians, put them on the front line every time. If Ruth can extract herself from public view, surely we can insert our best

  150. Ken500 says:

    Scotland loses £20Billion to the union. They have been fleecing Scotland for years. Westminster unionists are ignorant and incompetent. Most of them can’t count or read a balance sheet. They can’t even get the migration figures correct. Cheat on electoral expenses and get away with it. Nothing is done about it. The UK economy is tanking.

    The lying sycophantic Press back them up. The non Dom tax evading owners are criminals who should not even own the Press. Only residents can own shares so how can non residents own the Press. They then blame migrants for the trouble. The Westminster Gov have caused the migration crisis with illegal wars they and the Press have caused, Then if anyone objects, the Press/Gov have innocent people arrested. The Police should be investigating the Gov/Press who are breaking the Law. Westminster total corruption. Now Brexit. Another disaster for the Scottish economy.

    Independence can’t come soon enough. The SNP will know when to call it. When it can be won. Until then they will be standing up for Scotland and doing a good job. Just keep on voting SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence. Never give up.

  151. gordoz says:

    Grouse beater @ 12.40 a must read !


  152. Smallaxe says:


    Beleaguered Theresa May ‘to quit as Prime Minister on August 30, 2019 in a bid to stop a leadership challenge’ – as she tries to calm rivals with a prosecco party at Chequers;

    Floyd cashes out: ‘Money’ Mayweather beats Conor McGregor by TKO in the tenth round – and insists $600MILLION ‘fight of the century’ will be his last as JLo, Leonardo DiCaprio and a host of stars look on ringside;

    Macart standing in for wee ginger dug;

  153. Smallaxe says:

    ‘Labour Brexit position is deeply worrying’: Scottish voters on Corbyn;

    US Shale’s threat to North Sea oil profits fades further as Total snubs it
    August 26, 2017johnrobertson834;

    A billion barrels of recoverable oil found off the coast of Scotland;

  154. Smallaxe says:


    Harvey’s Second Act Could Drive Up Economic Damage for Texas;

    Nelson Mandela statue in Parliament Square should be removed, says far-right BNP;

    Migrant traffickers brag about bribing British-backed Libyan coastguard;

  155. Smallaxe says:


    Jim Murphy was an “unprincipled” Blairite claims Labour MSP Neil Findlay in explosive new book;

    Scottish Tories engulfed in racism scandal with at least seven council candidates now in the spotlight;

    Left calls for purge of Blairites from Scottish Labour;

  156. Smallaxe says:

    Labour ‘to remain in customs union and single market during Brexit transition’;

    In pics: Jeremy Corbyn attacks government welfare policies at rally in Coatbridge;

    A million skilled EU workers see their future outside Britain;

  157. Gary45% says:

    Grouse Beater@12.40am, just read the first link.
    Cracking read, nice one.

    Noticed posts regarding the new bridge.
    Anyone else think the Empires “finest!!”shortbread will headline with
    ” New Forth Bridge Crossing Opens LATE” or some other negative.
    mibees aye, mibees aye.

  158. Ken500 says:

    The US has been starving North Korea for over 50 years. The Chinese have to help them out. The US has ruined it’s economy on military spending. £Trns in debt.

    How much did does the illegal wars cost Scotland. £Billiion, Blair’s decision 2002. Scottish Parliament 2000. Minority SNP Gov 2007. The 2008 Banking crash cost Scotland £Billion. Osbourne hugh Oil sector taxes stopped production in the Oil sector. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. Lost £Billions, Taxed. 40% since Jan 2016. Trident £1Billion. Minimum pricing could save £1Billion. Tax evasion costs £3Billion. Whisky companies etc make vast profits and pay no tax. £Billions on debt repayment not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Scotland can’t borrow to invest in the economy. Loses out £Billions in EU renewable Grants etc because of Westminster indecision. Total £20Billion+.

    Scotland raises £58Billion. Increased £4Billion a year over the last two years. Could raise more. (eg. £4Billion Oil revenues Oil etc) Gets £50Billion back. The UK raises £533Billion. Pro rata the rest of the UK raises £34.5Billion. Borrows and spends £10Billion more. (£100Billion in total. Including borrowed investment from Chinese etc. HS2/Hinkley Kept off the books. Claimed to be private – PPI)

  159. Capella says:

    @ Artyhetty 1.32 – Wiki cites earlier examples of concentration camps. However, Hitler himself claimed he was copying the British in the Boer War. Can’t find the ref. ATM. Think it is in Schellenberg Memoirs.

  160. Smallaxe says:

    FAKE NEWS: 🙂

    We don’t listen to people in wheelchairs, Tories tell Stephen Hawking;

    Daily Mail celebrates ‘Barely legal sexy girls getting exam results’ day;

    White supremacy advocated by least impressive whites;

  161. colin alexander says:

    “Be more alert Colin, we are still in the EU…”

    But the SNP manifesto said Indyref if “BEING taken” out the EU, not took or left.

    Whoever thinks an Autumn 2018 announcement will lead to an indyref vote before Brexit day in March 2019 is very very optimistic or has a secret hotline to the UK Govt -as even if the Scottish Govt rushed the legislation through parliament, the UK Govt only has to do things at normal pace, not drag its heals at all, and inyref is a busted flush.

    Cynical me, thinks that that is so the SNP can then pretend they did want an indyref before Brexit, but it’s all WM’s fault for no rushing it through.

    So the whole reason for holding an indyref – to give Scotland it’s own democratic decision in staying in the EU, will already have been lost, as Scotland will already have left the EU as part of the UK.

  162. Highland Wifie says:

    “It is amazing how fast people learn when they are not insulated from the consequences of their decisions” – Thomas Sowell.

    SG doing the best they can to mitigate the worst excesses of Tory austerity with the limited powers they have and yet some think JC is going to deliver them a new dawn. His manifesto mimics what we already have. Do they really believe this unionist is the answer? Some people never learn but re. above quote how bad does it have to get before they do?

  163. colin alexander says:

    “TOMMY Sheppard has argued the SNP made a fundamental error in their General Election strategy by insisting the campaign was not about independence. .. the MP claimed the downplaying of the SNP’s core objective led Yes voters to switch to Labour.”

    Naw it was about: “Keep Scotland Strong at Westminster” – a slogan the Tories would have been proud to use, if they hadn’t gone with “no indyref”.

    He goes on to say: “There is no reason why we cannot take support for independence to far greater levels than hitherto in the next four years. Besides, if there are not the numbers to elect an independence-supporting Scottish government, then there ain’t the numbers to win a referendum in any event.

    “Realistically I think those who seek independence need a plan which works backwards from 2021 ..”

    Does anyone take the hint? I take from that, that he already accepts indyref2 is a busted flush.

    Nicola is a brilliant orator. Great composure, articulate and intelligent, good organisational skills.

    But a leader needs good strategy, good ideas, good polices. These have been totally lacking for the SNP in the last few years.

    While support for YES has risen and remained high, support for the SNP has gone down. That’s a fact.

    If the SNP are the only road to independence, that road is looking like leading to a dead end, unless the SNP listen to the likes of Tommy Sheppard and take a different road to indy.

  164. galamcennalath says:

    Media full of claims that Labour are taking a different approach to the Tories on Brexit. As far as I can make out it’s the difference between a ‘business and usual’ transition period versus an ‘almost business as usual’ one.

    Taking a different position would be to say, let sanity prevail and let’s just cancel Brexit!

    However from a Scottish point of view, the worse Brexit is the more likely we are to have IndyRef2 and to win it!

    53.4% of England voted for Brexit, it should happen … for them. If 53.4% of Scots vote YES, then we would expect independence to follow.

    England needs to be allowed to leave the EU. Of course the Tories will try to take us with them, and that is where our route to Indy lies if it looks hard. The ‘problem’ is, a long transition period of ‘business as usual’ is a spanner in the works.

  165. Robert Peffers says:

    @Blair Paterson says: 26 August, 2017 at 8:30 pm:

    “Surely when the SNP won the56 seats for Westminster that was a mandate for independence ???”

    You’ll have to explain that for those of we Wingers who are not deep thinkers like yourself, Blair?

    ” … But for some reason it did not happen why?”?

    You say you don’t know why it isn’t happening, Blair? Yet you have thought so deeply on the matter that you seem to have conclude they not only had an explicit mandate but are doing nothing about it.

    Maybe they have the very good reason, that unlike you, “Deep Thinkers”, they know that they are very much constrained by the simple fact they are a legally devolved part of the Westminster parliament and must operate as such or they give the Westminster Establishment the perfect legal reason to legally use the Westminster Establishment instigated Supreme Court to instantly take back the devolved functions that Westminster has devolved to the Holyrood Parliament.

    ” … I have given up trying to understand the workings of the SNP”

    Seems to this non-deep thinker, Blair, that the real truth is you really had no intentions, or motives, to want to understand any other options than your own, or perhaps from where your political allegiances actually rest.

    ” … I am honestly baffled by their ways or lack of them but I will always support them as my dream like most of you is Scottish Freedom and they are the only party who will deliver it.”

    You really need to get a big dose of reality, Blair.

    Here are a few indisputable truths that can be very easily proven but that the people who vote are accepting as truth but which have ne legal standing in law.

    The Westminster Establishment, (that includes much more than those, both elected and unelected, sitting at the Westminster parliament), have been assuming total lies and they spout these total as facts like verbal Diarrhoea.

    Yet they are never challenged to correct the lies by the people who have the power to elect or reject the Westminster Government but have no power to rid themselves of the much larger Westminster Establishment members.

    Here’s just a few blatant lies that are never challenged that if challenged would end the Westminster establishment in its tracks.

    The Westminster Government is not the Parliament of Britain it is legally, “Her Majesty’s Government, of Her United Kingdom”.

    There are no Armed Forces of Britain or even the United Kingdom – They are respectively:-
    Her Majesty’s Royal Navy: Her Majesty’s Royal Air Force: and The Soldiers of the Queen.

    It is Her Majesty’s Treasury, Her Majesty’s Royal Mint Her Majesty’s Civil Service and, as far as Westminster is concerned, the people of the entire United Kingdom, or indeed the whole of Britain with the possible exception of only the Republic of Ireland, are Her Majesty’s Subjects.

    Except the truth is none of the above have ever been true – not to mention that the oft used phrase, “BREXIT”, could never take Britain out of the European Union for the very good reason that the term, “Britain”, is only a geographic term that includes mare than Westminster controls.

    The difference between the facts and the Westminster mantra of claims is accepted by the electorate and until the public pull them up on their lies we will remain under their rule.

    Simply put nothing about the United Kingdom is what it purports to be – The truth is that everything being, “Her Majesty’s”, is a total lie for it is the assumption that only Kingdom of England law holds sway and thus that, “Her Majesty”, is legally sovereign throughout all of Britain.

    She is not legally sovereign under Scots law and Southern Ireland is a part of Britain but is not a part of the United Kingdom and the three Crown Protectorates are parts ob Britain but are independent of Her Majesty’s Parliament of her United Kingdom.

    Until the people of the United Kingdom not only recognise the truth, but insists upon Westminster sticking to the truth, then the SNP, as a government, must abide by the Westminster constraints placed upon them by Westminster.

    While the SNP as a political party, run as a democratic political party actually led by the membership, need not comply with the Westminster mantra – indeed their entire raison d’etre is to destroy the Westminster mantra.

    To date the far left of Labour are actively undermining the whole concept of Scottish independence while claiming to espouse Scottish Independence for their own totally empty political ambition. An ambition they have not a hope in hell of ever achieving in fact.

  166. Ken500 says:

    May complains about exorbitant salaries, reported on the BBC. Kettle black. How much does May’s husband earn? What hypocrites.

    Corbyn did well in England. The SNP Gov protects Scotland. The new Bridge opening soon will improve the Scottish economy.

  167. North chiel says:

    Corbyn has a “brass neck” coming to Scotland and criticising the Scottish
    government over austerity. The Britnat London Labour Party has done little or nothing
    at Westminster to challenge the Tories over their damaging austerity policies and massive welfare
    cuts which has forced the disabled & poorest members of society to food banks to enable them to eat. Corbyn and his ” reserve” government are now fully paid up members of the Britnat establishment, having ” Kow towed” to the UK imperialists over trident, Brexit and Scotland ( continuing regional status under London Britnat Labour). Having publicly stated these pre requirements the establishment have acknowledged that possibly he might get the keys to no.10 , but only when they decide that the time is right.
    If our FM decides on Indyref2 and sets a date then the establishment might counter this with a General election BEFORE the referendum 2 vote ( it may well be perceived that a BRITLABOUR government could be more likely to win a ” better together ” 2 vote) . The establishment propagandists will ensure that Corbyn gets the keys if it is deemed that the Tory 1st team have to ” stand down” to save the union again.
    Thereafter, the Scottish voters will be spun the usual con over Britnat Labour’s wonderful new Super duper Devo Max /home rule federal arrangements for Scotland with Pacific quay and the printed press leading the propaganda campaign again.
    If the Britnat establishment try to call a General election ahead of any Indy vote then our FM must possibly call a Holyrood election on the Independence question ?

  168. Robert Peffers says:

    @Artyhetty says: 27 August, 2017 at 1:32 am:

    “I thought that was common knowledge. The Brits invented the concentration camps during the Boer war.”

    Nah! That’s a total myth, Artyhetty.

    All they did in the Boer War was coin the phrase, “Concentration Camps”. Factually The Kingdom of England and/or the United Kingdom had been using the concept of, “concentration”, of people who opposed their rule centuries before the Boer War.

    The forced concentration of the native populations during the formation of the English/UK/British Empire were the same thing and perhaps the best known example of such was the creation of, “Reservations”, of the native American people’s.

    However, much of the other, and smaller nations they colonised had such camps that were really no more than the British colonial rulers using the native population as cheap labour often actually working them to death as slaves for their own private financial gain.

    In fact much of the slave trade was just such exploitation.

  169. colin alexander says:

    “However from a Scottish point of view, the worse Brexit is the more likely we are to have IndyRef2 and to win it!”

    That begs the question: So, why is the SNP prioritising a “soft Brexit” Single Market deal instead of indyref, when the manifesto commitment was to indyref if leaving the EU?

  170. geeo says:

    I notice the village idiot troll thinks that the uk can simply delay the indyref process…think again fool.
    The United Nations say otherwise.

    3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

  171. Flower of Scotland says:

    The Dunfermline march was great! I had my Wings flag!

    Met up with some Wingers that comment and loads of folk who lurk but read every day! All outraged at your treatment!

    Keep up the good work, Stu, you have more readers than any of the other sites or papers. It’s amazing how everyone knows what’s happened to you and are supporting you.

    We’re getting impatient and want things back to normal on Wings Over Scotland!

  172. heedtracker says:

    Smallaxe says:
    27 August, 2017 at 8:45 am
    FAKE NEWS: ?

    Fantastic linksmanship this morn Smallaxe.

    Fudge me, UK hackdom is rank and gets more and more as you cross the Scotland and England border.

  173. Tatu3 says:

    With regard to geeo’s, at 10.45, link to U.N. decolonization/declaration. First time I’ve seen/read it. Maybe this could be printed out and put through letterboxes?

    Maybe if people were to actually see the UNs views written down, and in the UNs own words, that amongst so many other positive points, we have the right to self determination, instead of just Yes supporters telling them that this is the case, some may start to believe it?

  174. Col says:

    Colin, surely it’s to show that the SNP/Scottish government have exhausted all avenues in retaining access to the single market. Meeting half way only to be denied by a London government out of tune with scotlands wishes and therefore giving a clear example that scotlands will is forever denied by Westminster. They are taking the right steps I presume and hopefully paving the way to a successful indyref 2. Here’s hoping!

  175. heedtracker says:

    That begs the question: So, why is the SNP prioritising a “soft Brexit” Single Market deal instead of indyref, when the manifesto commitment was to indyref if leaving the EU?

    It wasn’t Co. Come on dude. If youre going to make us all stop voting SNP, you’re going to have to do a lot more than insult our intelligence, over and over.

    T shirts now available at

    I think therefore, I vote YES.

  176. Dorothy Devine says:

    Flower of Scotland , did you meet Liz and if so was she creased or pressed?

    Any photos?

  177. Smallaxe says:


    Thank you, sir, it’s always good to know that people are reading the links.

    Have a great Sunday.

  178. PacMan says:

    re points made about Jeremy Corbyn.

    Jeremy Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party. It is his duty to increase the support of the Labour party and in Scotland that means going after SNP voters for the simple fact that the two parties are so similar in political outlook, therefore it is easier to target them than it is of those from other parties.

    While he has to do that, the reality on the ground in the short term that Labour in Scotland is incapable of delivering enough seats to give Corbyn the majority in Westminster that he needs. It is a long term goal as I mentioned to increase Labour support here but at this present time, the best policy for him would be as others mentioned is to go after the Tories instead.

    Rather than blaming Corbyn, the real culprits is the MSM. I’ll be charitable in saying that they have an anti-SNP agenda. For any other political party to get any presence in the MSM they need to undermine the SNP. It’s obvious that for Labour to get back into the publics consciousness through MSM they have to play that game. If they don’t, they are ignored. You can see that with the Liberals who only gets any press due to Rennie’s constant strings of anti-SNP soundbites.

    It’s obvious that the MSM here in Scotland is more active than shaping the agenda rather than reporting it. How to deal with that is going to be very hard but indy supporters shouldn’t be helping them by blaming Corbyn and getting bogged down by attacking him and Labour. Rather than caught up in divide and conquer tactics of the establishment, Corbyn needs to be ignored and instead highlight the many positive things that the SNP has done to promote and further the interests of Scotland and all Scots who live her.

  179. heedtracker says:

    Have a great Sunday.

    You too, Smallaxe.

    Cycle across this part of bonny Scotland, work on T shirts with,

    I think therefore, YES2

  180. HandandShrimp says:

    It would seem that the Guardian has decided it is only safe to let us comment about butterflies and comedy awards in the Scotland section.

    Comment is Fucked is the logo they are reaching for.


  181. heedtracker says:

    HandandShrimp says:
    27 August, 2017 at 11:37 am
    It would seem that the Guardian has decided it is only safe to let us comment about butterflies and comedy awards in the Scotland section.

    Graun gimpery thing? to delete all and any comment, then block, and then their hacks steal anything btl for copy.

    Lovely old Graun, where comment is free and then blocked, if its too free.

    Or just another clusterfcuk of professional tory liars, in the kingdom OF professional liars, tory red and blue.

  182. Ghillie says:

    Hey there Smallaxe = )

    Loads of good links, thank you!

    Not surprised ‘no ticker tape for Corbyn’. Wonder what he makes of that?

    MORE OIL ?! Whatever will we do with that?

    Saving good reading for later 🙂

    Have a lovely day Smallaxe and everybody else too = )

    ps heedtracker, like the sound of your T shirts!

  183. galamcennalath says:

    ” A big business Brexit for a bargain basement Britain … Brexit negotiators are side-lining civil society concerns as they grant privileged access to corporate lobbyists. …. while small business, trade unions and public interest groups may be marginalised, large corporations are getting plenty of access to government ministers. “

    Who could possibly have guessed with the Tories?

  184. Capella says:

    History of concentration camps from Durham County record office. Written in 2005 before it became essential to present all things “British” as “Great”.

    “Concentration camps are so called because they concentrate the enemy into a restricted area. They were first used by the British in the Boer War (1899 – 1902) in South Africa, when women and children were removed from their homes by force and sent to concentration camps…”

    By July 1917 a certain “revision” of this history is required. Disturbing picture warning.

    “Like most simplifications of history, the ‘Boer War to Auschwitz’ narrative is not wholly untrue. The British Army did indeed erect something called ‘concentration camps’ for Boers. But they also did so for black Africans, almost as many of whom were incarcerated as Boers and, unlike Boers, were subjected to forced labour.”

    So that’s alright then.

  185. Hamish100 says:

    I notice a certain lady “journalist” who it appears in the past worked for the mirror group seems to place one Gordon Brown (failed PM) high up on her “idolatory list” judging by the pictures, maybe just below HM Queenie on her list. Appears to be on the same twitterati list such as freedom of speech campaigner spanner!

    The truth is there for all to see-
    The best people to govern Scotland are the People of Scotland

    No ifs no bits. They are scared.

  186. Smallaxe says:

    Ghillie says:

    “Hey there Smallaxe = )
    Loads of good links, thank you!”

    Thank you, Ghillie, have a great and Peaceful Sunday Always!

  187. louis.b.argyll says:

    In the UN declaration, linked above by geek..

    I’d say clause/item 6 is where the BBC/ESTABLISHMENT ‘too poor’ attacks are exposed as sinister.

  188. Flower of Scotland says:

    Hi Dorothy at 11.07

    No, I didn’t see Liz this time, but met Ronnie and Yewchoob.

    The Crossgate Centre had a stall there. Anyone visit it? It’s a great YES hub in Cupar. Pop in and see them and have a blether.

  189. Ealasaid says:

    I am afraid I read Tommy Sheppards speech in The National with a strong feeling of Deja vu and a lot of fury. The reason for this was his claim that we needed to get YET ANOTHER mandate (why???) from Yes voters in 2021 and only after that could we consider another IndyRef.

    It was all ringing strong alarm bells in the back of my head. Especially that he did not want the vote to be linked to Brexit. The vote IS linked to Brexit. It was Scotland being taken out of the EU by a Brexit we did not vote for that, by the SNP manifesto, gives justification for another IndyRef.

    By 2021 Brexit will be well under way. People will be busy trying to save themselves and their families the best ways they can. There will be another massive exodus of our youth as they are forced to emigrate and look for jobs elsewhere, just as I was all those years ago when I was forced to take a job down in London. This was just before the 60% vote where the dead voted No. I got a vote as I had only just arrived in London.

    Perhaps Wingers can help me out with the details, but I am sure this was after the ‘It’s Scotland’s Oil’ campaigns and for some reason a vote had to be delayed to a time by which the UK had taken full control and we had no say. The vote was delayed from the time the people wanted it until the Scots were emigrating and scrabbling for jobs where ever they could find them. So the mandate was scattered and fell apart.

    ScotRef was mandated to take place to stop the people of Scotland being taken out of the EU against their will and with no say in the matter. The time for ScotRef is at the end of the Brexit talks which should be around the end of 2018 and the beginning of 2019. 2021 will be far too late and with power grabs and other shenanigans we may not even have a functioning Scottish Parliament by then. That is not even the date being suggested for ScotRef, just yet another prior mandate!

    This would be not only a betrayal of ourselves, families and future generations but also our European friends who have chosen to make their homes here and who have been fighting with us.

    Open your eyes and see what is happening here. Previous No voters are looking at Brexit and starting to think again. More and more people are coming out for Yes. The Establishment is using all its ammo to stop us and those fighting for us. They cannot stop Yes so they are trying to stop the vote until it is far too late. Beware the Place Men the Establishment have put in place. Remember those german means of disrupting organisations we have been reading about in posts here recently.

    SNP – this NOT the time for gradualism. The time for another IndyRef is around the end of 2018 or forget it. You have the conference in October to sort it out. Please!

  190. Flower of Scotland says:

    Anyone read that Tommy Shepherd wants a referendum in FOUR years.

    Another 4 years is not what was promised and it’s far too late. They’ll try to scrap devo after Brexit.

    The mandate was for next year or early 2019.

    What’s going on Tommy?

  191. galamcennalath says:

    Hamish100 says:

    They are scared.

    … shitless!

    The situation has changed so much since IndyRef1. Their Union, staying in it, voting NO, was a totally different prospect then from now and they know it.

    They are having their Brexit English NatFest. Or more precisely, they would like to get on and have their Brexit. However, the internal constitutional integrity of the UKOK is intertwined with their Brexit, and they clearly don’t like that constraint. They would dearly love to put Scotland to one side to give them a free hand with Brexit. Tough, we ain’t gonna play along!

  192. Chick McGregor says:

    Since the post I did last night was the last one on the thread and therefore possibly missed by many, I am reproducing it here (with a few typo fixes).

    More on trade.

    The Export Statistics Scotland (ESS) report is the only measure of Scottish exports available.

    In regard to Scottish exports which go through England:

    If the final destination is recorded by the exporter at outset as being outside the UK, then those goods should get counted as Scottish exports regardless of which English port is used.

    However, if they are simply recorded as exports to England by the exporter but are then ‘moved on’ elsewhere, this does not get counted as Scottish exports and may indeed be counted as English exports to wherever the final destination was.

    It is unknown how much of this goes on.

    A similar ‘Rotterdam Effect’ or ‘England Effect’ (‘Rotherham Effect’ 🙂 ) goes on for imports to Scotland.

    Not sure, for example, if the humble Tesco’s brand tin of baked beans is counted as an export from England to Scotland or not but it is a simple Googling task to affirm that they are made from American beans, processed in Italy and shipped to the UK at a rate of about a million cans per day. However they are still sold as Tesco’s ‘own’ brand.

    In short, it is not really currently possible to say how much of Scottish exports to England end up elsewhere OR how many of ‘England’s’ exports to Scotland came from elsewhere.

    We know there must be some of both going on and we may surmise that the ‘England Effect’ must be at least as big as the ‘Rotterdam Effect’ but without hard data that must remain conjecture.

    However, at the end of the day, although it would be nice to know how many of Scotland’s exports to ‘England’ went elsewhere and how many imports from ‘England’ came from elsewhere, that is unlikely to change the overall picture of Scotland’s trade balance per se, namely total exports – total imports.

    But, and this is the key point coming up, even if we accept the HMRC figures (which do not include oil) which show we have a surplus with the rest of the World outside the UK of £2 billion. Even if we accept the proposition that Scotland is a member of a very exclusive club in being one of the very few nations on the planet which has a trade deficit with England (of about £5 billion) then the net overall Trade Deficit for Scotland is only around £3 billion.

    What does that £3 billion mean? Well it is about 3% or 4% of Scotland’s exports depending on whether oil is included or not.

    Compare to England’s trade deficit, which at about £120 billion, is about a third of the value of their exports.

    In a European context Scotland is in a perfectly normal position perhaps with a slight ‘could do better’ comment but OTOH England is by comparison an absolute trade balance disaster area, far worse, pro rata, than any other developed nation.

    Sometimes you hear people saying ‘But most countries have a trade deficit, don’t they?’ That is utter tosh. Most EU countries run a trade surplus and the Eurozone overall runs a trade surplus of hundreds of billions in dollar or euro terms.

    Another thing you hear is, ‘Trade balance is irrelevant to how wealthy an economy is.’ A glance at the graph of GDP PPP Per capita v Trade Balance soon gives the lie to that.

    True, on that graph, the UK GDP per capita is miles off the main sequence, being way higher than it should be, it is very anomalous. But that is entirely down to the £150 billion or so ‘earned’ by the financial scams of various kinds centered on London, so far inexplicably tolerated by the rest of the World, but which are unlikely to survive Brexit intact.

  193. Capella says:

    Hitler addressing a crowd on the Boers. He mentions the English invention of concentration camps.
    Oddly, the subtitles say “British” instead of English. 1 min 34 secs

  194. heedtracker says:

    End of JC’s Scotland vote Slab for ever and ever tour, in Independent this time.

    NewsUKUK Politics
    Jeremy Corbyn puts federal government ‘on the table’ if Labour win power
    Labour government would consider replacing House of Lords with elected federal senate, says party’s leader

    Chris Baynes a day ago807 comments

    As we know the Independent, almost never gives its Scotland region the time of day, like all teamGB hackdom south of the border.

    So from the toryboy idiots that dumped tons of anti YES stuff like this, 2014… all of a sudden exact same Independent news gimps are all like totally into a Federal UKOK zone, shock:D

    Never a trust a tory, red, blue and especially their news gimps.

  195. Chick McGregor says:

    The thing about the British concentration camps in the Boer War was the tens of thousands which died in them plus the fact that black and white captives were in separate camps both losing thousands.

  196. louis.b.argyll says:

    Er, typo! geek? Lol. No offense intended..was the bot wot did it.

  197. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Had to post here today in a sort of I am Spartacus sort of way.

    Anybody else think the Scottish accounting unit of London Labour is about to rupture and disgorge its poison all over the Scottish political stage.

    Couldn’t happen to a better bunch of political nonentities, unless it is the Tory twin one.

    Brexit is falling apart too.

    Are the planets aligning again for independence?

  198. heedtracker says:

    So from stinky old Graun a year ago,

    Shami Chakrabarti
    Corbyn’s offer of peerage to Shami Chakrabarti causes Labour tensions
    Shami Chakrabarti with Jeremy Corbyn at the launch in June of the findings of her inquiry into Labour party antisemitism.
    Rowena Mason
    Thursday 4 August 2016 20.19 BST Last modified on Tuesday 20 June 2017 18.53 BST
    Labour’s decision to nominate Shami Chakrabarti, the human rights and civil liberties campaigner, for a peerage has caused tensions at the top of the party.

    Jeremy Corbyn put Chakrabarti forward for a peerage, saying she shared his ambition for reform of the House of Lords and praised her career of public service.”

    to, even stinkier Independent and their vote JC you suckas yesterday,

    NewsUKUK Politics
    Chris Baynes a day ago.

    Jeremy Corbyn puts federal government ‘on the table’ if Labour win power
    Labour government would consider replacing House of Lords with elected federal senate, says party’s leader”

    What a difference a year makes in teamGB.

    Graun’s Rowena also enjoys taking long hard weewees all over Scottish democracy too.

  199. Flower of Scotland says:

    See a piece from Peter A Bell.

    A quote:- Tommy Shepherd is suggesting that the Scottish Government should set aside both these mandates. He is proposing that our government simply ignore the instructions of the electorate. How can that be justified?

  200. Capella says:

    Radio 4 soon to broadcast Gordon Brown bragging about the new Forth crossing. He was in the cabinet which cancelled it.
    State propaganda ratcheted up in advance of the opening ceremony.

  201. colin alexander says:

    @Heedtracker There are no elections, so I’m not trying to convince anyone who to vote for. I’m discussing the SNP, as that’s the party I’ve supported almost all my adult life.

    Colin Alexander said: “the manifesto commitment was to indyref if Scotland was being taken out of the EU”

    Heedtracker said:

    “No, it wasn’t”.

    SNP 2016 Scottish Elections manifesto said:

    “We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum..or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.”

  202. Chick McGregor says:


    That conjures up an image of Greg Moodie’s ‘Gordzilla’ wading up the Forth Estuary to smash the new bridge. 🙂

  203. heedtracker says:

    Capella says:
    27 August, 2017 at 2:07 pm
    Radio 4 soon to broadcast Gordon Brown bragging about the new Forth crossing. He was in the cabinet which cancelled it.
    State propaganda ratcheted up in advance of the opening ceremony.

    Nice. Crash Gordo is one shameless SLabour dingdong.

    If you enjoy jaw droppingly shameless SLab and Story’s taking credit for everything they’ve opposed, blocked, underfunded, promised then reneged on… move to Aberdeen.

    We’ve grown up in yoon catastrofuck territory owned SLabour control of decades.

    Our road network was considered perfectly adequate, for Europe’s oil capital, despite being built by and for Georgian, and Victorian drovers and cart horses, by SLabour dudes like Sir Wullie Young OBE. His go to was and is always, its all shite because of Nicola Sturgeon, even though it’s all been under catastrofucks like Sir Wullie’s total control, for decades.

    And of course local rag, neo fascist Voice of The North Press and Journal, have more than helped keep red tory unionist catastrofucks like Wullie Young, in power, in Aberdeen, for decades.

    Sir Wullie did lose his job as ACC Finance Convener last Aberdeen council elections, maybe because it was suddenly “revealed” that red and blue tory unionists of ACC have run up a £1.2+bn debt for Aberdeen.

    On what though? no one asks, who’s job it is to ask, so we have no idea, but at the very least, Sir Wullie is, as we say in Aberdeen, minted.

    Sound familiar?

  204. dandy dons 1903 says:

    Federalism is a complete non starter-just another attempt to subjugate/rein in Scotland in to perfidious albions chains and give it even less status and powers than it already has. Beware the conman Corbyn and his offers. Independence and away from this broken dysfunctional lopsided uk union with England is the only way, it gets more obvious and makes more sense every day-thanks to the English Brexit.

  205. heedtracker says:

    Colin you are ofcourse anti SNP and you are ofcourse trying to get us to stop voting SNP and so on.

    Or Colin, what does the SNP manifesto actually say?

    Does it say, if the UK Leaves the EU, we will hold ref2?

    No. It says, perfectly straightforwardly this,

    SNP 2016 Scottish Elections manifesto said:

    “We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum..or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.”

    “We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum..” if Scotland has being taken out of the EU against our will…

    Can it be any clearer Colin A? Its says belief in “the right” to hold ref2, ref3 and so on.

    It does not say Brexit and Leave, are automatic referendum triggers but keep at it though Colin A. You’re a crashing bore but then that’s not stopping me either:D

  206. Ewan Robertson says:

    I was about to post a long comment on Tommy Sheppard and the apparent abandonment of the mandate for a referendum before Brexit occurs. This seems to me to be what all independence supporters ought to be concerned with today and is why I came on here.

    But I see Flower of Scotland has already mentioned a post by Peter A Bell which saves me the bother. Here is the link

    We need to make it clear to the party leadership that this is just not on!

  207. Footsoldier says:

    Everything you need to know about the Queensferry Crossing on BBC Scotland website by Steven Brocklehurst.

    Says the Queen will open the bridge and the Moderator will bless it. Absolutely no mention of the First Minister’s role at the opening or the fact it was commissioned by the Scottish Government.

    I really do give up on the BBC. Are they seriously trying to paint out the SNP by omission? Given accusations of bias, one would think they would bend over backwards to get it right. Dreadful.

  208. mr thms says:

    Labour are being very helpful with regard to Scotland becoming an independent country and rejoining the EU.

    They now support remaining in the single market and customs union for the transition period following Brexit.

  209. Alastair says:

    Ross – if you were Karaoke King for a day would you song be “gypsies tramps and thieves”

  210. Capella says:

    Sickening isn’t it, that a cringer such as Brown should be in any way associated with the opening of the Queensferry Crossing, which he and his colleagues opposed so snidely.

    Alex Salmond should have been asked to do the programme since Labour dubbed it his “vanity project”.

  211. Meg merrilees says:

    Anybody hearProf. John Curtice on Radio 4 Colonial Service this morning, about 9.20, being interviewed on his allotment.

    Apparently he has declared that politics is ‘dead’ in the UK.

    Typical Labour voters voting Tory and ‘Remoaners’ voting Labour. Lib dem failed to provide the option against Brexit.

    Re Scotland he said that post the 2014 ref, there is only one topic in Scottish politics and that is Independence.

    Granted they didn’t let him speak for long nor elaborate on his theory but I was amazed they even broadcast it.


    Wonder how much ‘Diana’ stuff they will programme to prevent them broadcasting very much of the new bridge opening?

    What a brilliant week ahead- cannae wait to drive over to the Kingdom from the south.

  212. dandy dons 1903 says:

    Regarding Gordon Brown and the bridge, what is it with British Nationalists and claiming as their own and taking credit for things that have nothing to do with them? Aided and of course by the colonial broadcaster in Scotland.

  213. galamcennalath says:

    dandy dons 1903 says:

    what is it with British Nationalists

    Exceptionalism and entitlement!

    They are everything and everything is theirs!

    “Suck it up Sweaties!”

    Aye, in their dreams.

  214. Brian Powell says:

    If the SNP had a rebuttal department they would flood every new room with all the messages, articles and tweets from Labour ridiculing the bridge.

    But they don’t, so whatever the newspapers say will stand.

  215. Cactus says:

    Morning again.

    Latest article now featuring, by the excellent Al.

  216. frogesque says:

    Re bridge opening, remember it was Gordon’s involvement when not Scots oil in the Forth Basin was allocated to England against all normal legitimate claims over territorial waters.


  217. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ealasaid @ 12:36,

    You speak for me there. This continuing ambivalence over Brexit and an apparent wish to defer things to some supposed better opportunity later date is not good enough. The right strategy is maintain a well-thought-out position, be upfront and unashamed about it, and wait just a little for the facts of Brexit to be apparent to all, then reap the benefit for being right all along.

    Furthermore, Tommy’s fond hope that progressives across the political spectrum could combine over independence is (sadly) mere wishful thinking.

    As others have observed, Corbyn’s choice of places to visit in his wee tour of Scotland gives the lie to any such hope. Tackle the Tories? No chance – it’s the SNP that Labour has in its sights.

    The Labour hierarchy see the SNP as rivals for their self-assumed rightful place in Scottish politics, not as potential allies. Such is the measure of their blind fixation.

    “Blairite” or “Corbynite” makes no difference. They are all British Nationalists to the core, and their delusions having been reinforced by the last UKGE, they are even more stuck than ever.

    Many have tried to convince them that another path would ultimately reap them greater benefit, but they are deaf to reason. Which is exactly how they got to where they are today.

  218. Chick McGregor says:

    @Brian Powell
    “If the SNP had a rebuttal department”

    see previous 3000 posts on using Holyrood TV to set up a daily, lunch-time phone-in programme called ‘Ask the Government”.

    Ultra transparency is the answer to the mainstream propaganda monster.

  219. Fireproofjim says:

    Meg Merrilees
    I heard John Curtice on Radio 4.
    He talked a lot of sense. I believe he always tells it as his polling sees, it and is strictly honest in his conclusions.
    It is the BBC interpretations and interruptions that try to twist his findings.

  220. Hamish100 says:

    Gordon goes Forth

    As the longest three-tower, cabled-stayed bridge in the world opens in Scotland, Gordon Brown shares the story of the three bridges over the Forth in whose shadow he lives.

    Over the Forth river now stand three bridges spanning three centuries . First the famous rail bridge. Built in 1890, it remained the biggest and longest bridge in the world for a third of a century. Then in 1964 the Queen opened the road bridge, at the time the longest suspension bridge outside the USA. Now the elegant Queensferry Crossing takes us into the 21st century.

    Striding out onto the new bridge, Gordon celebrates the engineering genius that created these magnificent structures. Setting forth on a boat to view the bridges from the water, he remembers the bravery of those who built them, shares his personal memories of the bridges, and explores how they have touched the lives of people in surrounding communities. Gazing out from his home in North Queensferry towards the iconic Forth rail bridge that has become such an integral part of Scottish culture, Gordon asks if the arrival of yet another world class bridge to the Forth will make the view he sees everyday a site unique in the world – The Three Bridges.

    Any chance we will get “Gordon cycles the new A9” despite 300yrs of nae investment? by forcing the “Gordon tram fiasco?” nearly seen from his front door.
    More still Gordon mopeds the missing links on the M8 or how about the M74 missing during tory and labour years but built during the SNP government.

    Maybe darling will get a “backie?”

    Was this commissioned by Liz Smith daughter of ex Labour leader?

    Pure political crap from the bbc pacific quay. Must have been lots of wee discussions on the phone over this.

    Guess it will be Brutishhh engineeering is the best, baddddd snp bought chinese steel.

  221. colin alexander says:


    “another referendum”. not two, three or million and three.

    If I wanted your opinion about myself, I’d ask.

    I think you’re a bullying tube when you slag people.

  222. Meg merrilees says:

    Hamish 100

    Do you think they could get Gordo to refer to the new bridge as ‘ A third Way’?

  223. Brian Powell says:

    Chick Mcgregor

    it would need to be proactive, that is sending all the anti-bridge, anti SNP comments, press releases directly to the desks of the journalists and producers.

    The SNP doesn’t do that.

  224. donnywho says:

    Reference to the lack of SNP press rebuttal and silence over most issues.

    Go and look at the BBC online coverage of the New Bridge, they are not mentioned once in three articles.

    Now i am sure the press knows who is responsible for the bridge and how it is under-budget and only a couple of weeks late.

    I am sure because when they wanted to run SNP bad stories that it was a “Vanity Project”, “Unnecessary”, “a White “Elephant”, they certainly knew who to blame.

    Now it is a success and a stunning visual complement to the other two bridges… well not so much. In fact the BBC is allowing Mr G Brown to wax lyrical about it on a program all to himself.

    The Queen will open it and as the BBC put it, “Other events on the day will include a welcome address by First Minister Nicola Sturgeon”.

    But this is how the SNP is “ghosted”, they are just written out of history if there is any good news.

    This is propaganda of the first level and it is only on sites like this that is can be countered

  225. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Hamish100 @ 15:42,

    There’s nothing quite like the Beeb massaging an inflated ego. Ach, what’s the bets that when we get independence, El Gordo will be first on the TV to claim it was really his idea all along..?

  226. clipper says:

    What is it with this Sheppard character suggesting that waiting till after brexit would be the best time to hold indyref2? And he’s in the SNP!

    Is he a moron who doesn’t actually understand that by that time if we’re not out of the uk then we’ll likely never get out because they’ll be no Holyrood to facilitate it? It might not have been actually abolished but it will most certainly have been neutralised to an even greater extent than it is now, and laws will be in place by then which will make campaigning for indy a criminal offence. If however he does know that then what’s his game? Who is the real Tommy Sheppard?

    I fervently hope that his inbox and letterbox are being stuffed to the gunnels with people telling him where to shove his suggestion.

  227. galamcennalath says:

    Telegraph – ” Davis to DEMAND more flexibility from Brussels in Brexit talks “

    Herald – ” David Davis heads to Brussels for Brexit SHOWDOWN “

    (my upper case)

    He’s either a fool, or a provocateur. He either doesn’t understand what’s going on, or he does and wants to derail it!

  228. Alex Clark says:

    For arguments sake let’s say we would have a referendum in the Autumn of 2018 after the Brexit “deal” is known as is what has been promoted all along.

    Then if the EU and the UK stuck to their timetable of an exit by 1st April 2019 then Scotland would be out too anyway, even if we had a referendum this Autumn without some kind of agreement with the EU and most likely the UK would still be out.

    Alex Salmond before the release of the white paper in 2013 said this:

    In the event of a Yes vote in next September’s referendum, Salmond proposes that Scotland will become a sovereign nation state some 18 months after the poll, on a day that marks the 309th anniversary of the 1707 Act of Union.

    Some believed negotiations between an iScotland and rUK could be concluded sooner than in 18 months, while many others thought that impossible.

    What we need in my view is a Yes vote then support from the EU that our place will be kept open for us once we have successfully settled out differences with rUK. At the same time though the rUK will be trying to settle their differences with the EU.

    It’s one almighty mess, that’s for sure.

  229. msdidi says:

    The Brain family are facing another round of cruel torment by the Home Office. A crowdfunder has been set up to help them with costs and as well as this financial lifeline it would be good to see many more offering messages of support to this family who have made Scotland their home. I’m sure regular Wings folk know of their plight but maybe haven’t come across the latest crowdfunder and for those who don’t know the background to the story read it here:-

  230. Robert Peffers says:

    @ScottishPsyche says: 26 August, 2017 at 8:05 pm:

    “I am well aware that the SNP councils are as guilty as anyone else”

    Guilty of what, exactly, ScottishPsyche.

    Are you really accusing the SNP of being guilty of the heinous crime of NOT taxing the poorer people of Scotland to compensate the richer people of the United Kingdom, (including Scotland, for either the sheer incompetence or deliberately imposing austerity measures on the most vulnerable while they, the Blue/Red/Yellow Tories and their wealthy supporters have more than doubled their personal wealth while getting tax cuts from succeeding Westminster governments?

    Why on this Earth would any responsible Scottish government want to tax the Scots to pay for the tax cuts of the Wealthy Westminster government that has been cheating Scots since before the Treaty of Union?

    Leave that bullshit policy with the Scottish Unionist Westminster branch office managers and such as Colin Alexander to espouse.

    “What I am pointing out is there are other means to raise money as well as Income Tax.”

    That is not only true, ScottishPsyche, but is really a deflection of the actual sordid facts. Income tax is now the least significant tax since Labour changed the main taxation from being, “Direct Taxation”, i.e. income tax and taxation on wealth and property to, “Indirect Taxation, i.e. such as VAT, Fuel Duty, Road Fuel Duty, Betting Tax, Alcohol Duty, Tobacco Duty and a host of other indirect taxation.

    It is a known economic fact that by adopting indirect taxation the Labour Party were deliberately moving the main burden of taxation from the richest sectors in society onto the poorest sectors of society. In other words the poor were thus made to subsidise the already rich by paying indirect taxation.

    Changing to indirect taxation was done initially by a Labour Government and made even worse by Labour by then cutting the taxes of the rich. That was the crowning victory of NuLabour who most Scots now think of as Red Tories but without realising the shift in taxation from direct to indirect was the main Tory policy that Labour adopted.

    Thing is The Tories were too frightened to do it in case they were never elected ever again but the Blair/Brown NuLabour got away with fooling people as the Tories never could. Yet once NuLabour had done so the Tories were very enthusiastic in pushing the policy to the limits and haven’t looked back ever since.

    Ask yourself this – What was the very first actions of the Tory party on regaining power at Westminster?

    They first cut the top tax rates and not only increased indirect taxation, (VAT), but brought more new items into the VAT system. Such as the Carry Out Hot Pies, Pasties and other staple foods used by workers in industries such as the building, garage and agariculture.

    It was all just a way of transferring the main burden of taxation from the most rich onto the most poor. After all VAT taxes everyone and not just on items but on services too.

    It was a scam then and remains a scam now. Yet here we see that the public’s perception still is fixated upon income tax as the main taxation.

    Indirect taxation and tax cuts to the top income tax bands are the main reason that while the poorer sections of society are steadily getting poorer the rich are getting steadily richer. You cannot be, “All in it together”, when only the poor are getting poorer at the same time as the rich are doubling their personal wealth.

    Why on Earth would a Scottish government even dream of upping the direct, (income), taxation of ONLY the poorer Scots to subsidise the richer Unionist elite defies belief. I can understand the likes of Colin Alexander advocating such measures but he has rather different motives and agendas.

    Now if any Winger doesn’t understand that indirect taxation is designed to shift the main taxation burden from the rich to the poor then it is time to re-educate yourselves and stop listening to the Scottish Labour, Scottish Conservatives and that other party that I can never remember the name of. However, Wee Wullie Rennie is apparently the only one of them daft enough to take pn the job of leader.

  231. Dan Huil says:

    I can’t prove it but I feel the more England annoys the EU the more the EU looks kindly on Scotland. I hope SG ministers are keeping in close contact with the EU.

  232. Chick McGregor says:

    No Brian.

    It would be live. Answering the concerns of the electorate on a day by day basis, not the fake concerns of agendised media puppets and their selective interpretations.

    It would be unassailable as well, being as it would, an evident major upgrade in Government transparency.

    And the answers, while live, would remain for perusal at future dates in the most public of manners.

    An ‘Ask the Opposition’ one would also exist for reasons of fairness and balance. We should not fear that.

    The MSM in Scotland has had more than long enough to demonstrate otherwise, but it is clear it is either incapable, unwilling or unable to adequately carry out its democratic duty.

  233. Robert Graham says:

    A strange phenomenon regarding BBC Scottish news on their website I usually have a look at to see what they are up to , for some reason they continue to refer to the Scottish election 2016 , anyway it hasn’t updated for the last two days , Ruthies mug and the wayward referee are still there,
    I guess nothing has happened here since Friday, yep not a thing, I wonder if they are ignoring us and pretending we have went away , maybe its a new tactic, oh well they have tried everything else why not that, out of sight out of mind.

  234. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Chick McGregor @ 15:25, 17:29,

    It’s an interesting idea, but I’m not convinced that a live unmoderated interactive exchange would work pre-independence. Such a thing could well turn into GMS on steroids. It would be a honey pot for every mad BritNat in the country, who would drown out the message with an unrelenting gishfest of their own devising. A deliberate dialogue of the deaf. The intention being to scunner ordinary folk with zoomer propaganda.

    It would take a host with prodigious talent to handle such an onslaught and turn it into some kind of advantage.

    Instead, I suggest that some kind of very proactive unilateral rebuttal website, or an active moderated online Q&A page (or both) would be better options for the immediate future.

  235. chocolass says:

    My husband keeps saying “If the SNP was doing it’s job it would get the
    good news out there”.I counter this with “The Meeja won’t report it”
    This is followed by much scoffing and “How is that possible -the whole
    Scottish media against Scotland?”
    Very,very frustrating!

  236. Petra says:

    @ Ealasaid at 12:36pm …… “Beware the Place Men.”

    Excellent post Ealasaid …. from beginning to end. One wonders what’s going on with Tommy Sheppard? Wait until we’re dragged out of the EU, wait until hundreds of thousands of EU nationals living in Scotland no longer have the opportunity to vote, in fact many will probably have left by then, wait until even more of our neighbours from south of the border relocate here (over 1 million here now). More than anything wait until the next election, one that the SNP may not win especially if the Brexit botchup has really started to kick in resulting in, as one example, a real shortage of staff re. our NHS / Social Care.

    Tommy Sheppard was formerly a main player in the Labour Party through being General Secretary of Scottish Labour under John Smith. Booted / scunnered out by Blair, I heard? Has he now been blinded by the anti-Blair Corbyn light … or is he a ‘place man’? If he’s a fan of Corbyn he should be well aware that Corbyn, one man, could drop dead tomorrow (God forbid), be kicked into the long grass by his own party, lead a new totally ineffective splintered group party or just continue to sit in opposition to the Tories …. and never actually oppose them. And if he ever actually does become PM he’ll drag us out of the EU anyway. More than anything put the English first. We Scots have to get out of this bl**dy mess ASAP. We’ve spent decades, if not centuries, standing on the sidelines watching English politicians, one after another, playing games with each other and making disastrous decisions that have absolutely decimated Scotland (most of the World). How much longer are we willing to put up with this?

    The SNP / Nicola Sturgeon’s manifesto outlined that Scotland getting pulled out of the EU could / would trigger another referendum. 62% of the Scots who actually voted, voted to Remain. However how many of the 62% wanted to remain in the EU as part of the Union? Whatever the case a referendum has to be held as soon as the Brexit ‘facts’ become clear … sometime after spring of 2018, imo, as we’ll NEVER get a chance like this again.

    And finally on the subject of ‘place men’ would the place men (or women) who post on here, those who have no time for the SNP, clarify who they’d actually like us to support / vote for. Is it Kezia Dugdale or Ruth Davidson?


    I’ve been thinking about our greatest challenge of all which is trying to combat the Unionist propaganda machine. Thinking about what I see as a totally wasted opportunity. Around 20,000 people attended the recent Glasgow March. If one in every 20 people carried a placard / banner we’d be talking about 1000 notices / adverts. Not doing so seems like a missed opportunity to get the facts / truth out there. Let’s get a company to produce placards with a smaller version for car windows. White background with bold black letters and bordered by a colour relating to the subject matter. Keep the message simple and don’t point the finger at anyone in particular (the liars) for legal reasons. Get the truth out there in relation to GERS, oil, the media (percentage of newspapers controlled by Scots … Not), McCrone Report, pensions, Stolen Seas, Wings etc etc. For example:













    (for example Wings reference)







    Just a thought which may be something that InformScotland could think of taking on board (if they like the idea) with a crowd fundraiser to get it off of the ground followed by us purchasing the placards / car posters. Any profit made could go towards billboards etc.

  237. Robert Peffers says:

    @colin alexander says: 26 August, 2017 at 8:57 pm:

    “I wish some others would stop their apology / denial speeches for when the SNP get it wrong as well as praise when they get it right.”

    Like me you mean Colin?

    I never apologise for the SNP when they get it wrong but I do criticise you when you attempt to claim they get it wrong. Thing is I very quickly sussed you out exactly for what you are.

    So, Colin, lets hear you explain clearly why any Scottish Government, never mind an SNP one, would be justified in directly taxing Scots to alleviate the poverty directly caused by the Westminster Unionist Government’s policies of changing the main burden of taxation from the richest strata of society to the poorest sectors of society.

    The floor is yours – let’s have your justification?

    You surely are not trying to suggest that the increased use of Indirect Taxation has not resulted in transferring the main burden of taxation from the rich to the poor are you? After all some of the past greatest known economists on Earth who set down their theories on economics knew and taught that was a direct cause and result.

    Taxation should only be based upon, or rather it should always take account of all personal, “Disposable Income”. if it is to be fair and equitable.

    Disposable Income is defined thus:-

    “income remaining after deduction of taxes and other mandatory charges, available to be spent or saved as one wishes.”

    Now such as VAT, Road Fuel Duty and most other indirect taxes cannot take anyone’s disposable income into account but such direct taxation inherently does so. That is why there is a basic tax allowance in the first place and then it is banded from zero to the top tax rates.

    Now, for example a disabled or ill OAP or an unemployed single person who is unable to earn and thus is unable to pay income tax, (direct taxation), is not taxed on the allowances they get.

    But they must pay the indirect tax exactly the same as the multi-billionaire. I’ll put that a different way for the hard of thinking – It costs exactly the same price to buy, process and cook a tattie on a rich woman’s plate as it does for the tattie on the one parent mother’s plate.

    The new born baby pays indirect taxation indirectly, (That’s why they call it indirect taxation). Even the newly dead pay indirect taxation if they have paid a life insurance or even one of those paid in advance funerals.

    So there you go, Colin. The Unionist parties are all 100% behind indirect taxation and both the Labour and the Tory party, when in office and out of it, backed not only the change to indirect taxation but in office both increased the direct and indirect taxation and cut the top rates of income tax.

    Yet here you are claiming the SNP should alleviate the worst affects of the changes from direct tax to indirect tax by Westminster by directly taxing only the Scots under their newly granted devolved income tax powers.

    Now either you imagine all we Scots button up the backs of our heads or you actually do button up the back of your head.

    There is absolutely no known way to stop the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer under indirect taxation – for that is the main known use of indirect taxation.

  238. Capella says:

    @ chocolass – tell him the media are for the Union and against Scottish independence. Very simple.

    Give him the Heydrich quote and point out instances in our own lives where these principles are applied.

    Deprive the people of their national consciousness;
    treat them as a tribe and not a nation;
    dilute their national pride;
    do not teach their history;
    propagate their language as inferior;
    imply they have a cultural void;
    emphasize their customs are primitive;
    and dismiss independence as a barbaric anomaly

    Tell him that blood and soil nationalists hate civic nationalists e.g. the Nazis hated Czech nationalists’ struggle for independence.
    Why? Slave labour and the Skoda arms factory.

    In our case, oil, water, labour, soldiers, somewhere to park Trident, Dounreay and a vast strategic coastal area.

  239. Croompenstein says:

    Jesus Wept…

    He also said that the idea of separate economic and legal systems in different parts of the UK becomes “difficult and very problematic”

  240. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Petra @ 18:39,

    The last Glasgow march got next-to-zero coverage on telly anyway (surprise, surprise!), though your basic idea is sound. We certainly are missing a big trick with the likes of bumper stickers. If lots of them were going around, the message(s) would start to sink in with those denied them by conventional means.

    At the moment there’s just an uneasy silence in the public domain, so even the mere ubiquity of them would have a very positive effect.

  241. HandandShrimp says:

    Given the antipathy towards the new Forth bridge from the opposition parties over the last few years there is something profoundly unsettling about the sudden rush to claim credit by the same naysayers.

    The BBC are once again proving they are nothing but a propaganda mouthpiece. I don’t think I have ever trusted the BBC less than I do right now. No great surprise though.

    The bridge is another example of a competent government doing the day job…and it sticks in their craw to say so.

  242. Chick McGregor says:


    The host would be armed with an off switch to keep the worst nutters at bay. Pre air interviewer would ascertain what kind of questions the person had and whether it was relevant whether they were drunk, abusive or otherwise too inarticulate.
    No past or present elected representatives allowed etc.

    Yes deceivers will make it through but to whose advantage? Most likely not their cause’s. Besides that is the kind of thing that grows audiences. And a large audience is what is needed.

    I think a live phone-in would attract and grow a significant audience, especially at times of heightened political awareness, like an election, referendum or a major political crisis.

    In those circumstances it would quickly become the go to place for those with any interest in politics at all.

    That is NEVER going to be the case for a read only website, however well it is constructed.

  243. Ottomanboi says:

    In 2015 Westminster election the SNP obtained 50% of the vote and 56 of 59 seats. Superb result.
    They should have demonstrated their contempt for Westminster and its irrelevance to Scotland by not taking their seats. By doing so they capitulated seemingly in thrall to the system.
    In 2017 we all know what happened. A rather pathetic performance all round ever since the shock result. Surely this pussy footing with the system cannot continue or the cause of independence will be set further back.
    Time there was some honesty in the SNP not to mention some steel.

  244. Robert Graham says:

    Just caught the Messiahs thoughts regarding Labours about turn on Brexit, I have to wonder how detatched he and the rest of the con artists who surround him are regarding Scotland, he seems to believe we are somehow an extension of England, this is far from the first time Jeremy has shown a total disconnect from anything that goes on here, I remember his first conference as the newly elected leader, he was interviewed on TV and in the space of about 15 seconds he rhymed off the biggest load of tripe I have ever heard about the SNP , my thoughts were he hasn’t a f/n clue what he is talking about, yet sits there straight faced talking with great authority as if he is a expert .
    I would have thought he had learned from that balls up , but no he hasn’t bloody changed “a different Legal system would be very difficult ” Christ is this guy for real, this is school boy stuff so basic it’s beyond belief, f/k me does he believe Scots are that stupid ? .

  245. Daisy Walker says:


    Some random thoughts…

    The New Queensferry Crossing…. Built with 100% Groats

    GERS… Scotlands Oil and Gas…. England takes the gravy, Scotland gets the gruel.

    SNP / Tommy Sheriden, timing of Indy Ref 2… ‘s no up tae yous’ s’up tae us.’

    Devo Maxie / Federalism / Home Rule…. Not Worth the Road Sign it will be printed on.

    Get your facts and figures out folks and start printing them off and carrying them about. Folk will not look up the McCrone Report, hand it tae them.

    And Brexit…. is a disaster. I’m pulling together the gist and I’ll post it. Then we have to educate folk. The SNP whatever their intentions, are just too slow. We have to do it and do it now.

    Tell folk the problem ( democratic joke that is UK, Brexit )- then hit them with the solution – yes we can, all the facts, after facts, after facts.

    Face to face, every opportunity. We own thrawn folks, this battle is on our terms.

    Yes we damn well can. Now we must.

  246. Glamaig says:

    @Daisy Walker :
    27 August, 2017 at 7:59 pm
    ‘And Brexit…. is a disaster. I’m pulling together the gist and I’ll post it. ‘

    I posted this before but worth another post I think

    Apologies if this has been posted before, South China Post

  247. geeo says:

    @alex clarke 5.02pm

    Considering that the WM gov say no deals on currency, what is there to discuss ?

    No asset share no debt share.

    Scotland walks away, not a penny of debt, not a penny of debt interest share. Nothing.

    Scotland assumes immediate control of ALL Scottish assets and revenues as per international laws and treaties (we will be having that 6000sqm of Scottish waters back as well).

    What ACTUALLY needs discussed this time ? Removing trident and compensation for share of defence hardware ?

    “Scotland demands xyz or Get Trident tae fuck NOW” is a strong card.

    That 18 month predicated a negotiated CU, not an option this time, they did’nt want it so fuck them.

    Indy would not take long this time.

  248. colin alexander says:

    @Robert Peffers

    The point was that the SNP Govt have finally lifted the Council Tax freeze, but many Councils have not increased the Council tax to increase revenue to provide public services that people depend on.

    Council Tax is roughly equated to wealth on the basis that more expensive properties = higher council tax band.

    Also, there is the Council Tax Support scheme which aims to help lower income householders pay their council tax.

    The BBC – aye them- even admit Scots pay on average lower Council Tax than people in England.

    From BBC:

    What about council tax?
    While some pay more income tax, after a succession of freezes under agreements between the Scottish government and local councils, most people in Scotland pay less council tax than those in England.
    The average Band D property in Scotland pays £1,162 in council tax, while the average Band D property in England pays £1,591.
    The multiplier which calculates the higher bands, from E to H was recently changed in Scotland, meaning people in these properties saw their bills rise regardless of what their local councils decided to do in their budgets.

    However, the average bill for each of the eight bands is higher in England than it is in Scotland, with the average of bands A-H at £1,551.33 in Scotland and £1,922.46 in England.”

    Having said all that, I have long been a supporter of the SNP’s plan to scrap Council Tax altogether and replace it with a local income tax which would be much fairer than Council Tax, but they were prevented from doing that by the UK’s Inland Revenue etc.

    So, truth be told, you only think you know about me, Robert. But you don’t know me from Adam.

    But, I do enjoy some of your posts, so no hard feelings.

  249. colin alexander says:

    “Scotland demands xyz or Get Trident tae fuck NOW” is a strong card.”

    That’s more like it.

    If only we had had this sort of debate at the Smith Commission:

    Where’s the Devo-Max we were promised? Well, get your Trident tae f**k now”.

    I nominate Geeo to represent the Scottish Govt in all future negotiations with the UK Govt.

  250. heedtracker says:

    . Around 20,000 people attended the recent Glasgow March. If one in every 20 people carried a placard / banner we’d be talking about 1000 notices / adverts.

    Its such a great concept.

    Don’t forget to get everyone wearing my line of T shirts too, with this kind genius emblazoned on them,


    Available at all good retailers and at All profits go to Sir Ewan Gordon McGregor OBE, to stop him ruining anymore Star Wars movies .

  251. chocolass says:

    Thanks Capellla,good advice!

  252. galamcennalath says:

    From the Herald … “It would be “very, very difficult if not impossible” to have separate Brexit arrangements for different parts of the UK, Jeremy Corbyn has said.”

    I wonder if Corbyn means Northern Ireland too? Or is it just Scotland that has follow England’s every move?

    That guy is as blinkered and ignorant as every other London Bubble politician who can’t think outside a Greater England construct.

  253. Footsoldier says:

    Let us hope the FM will make it clear in any speech at the bridge opening that this a 100% SNP government project without any Westminster input.

  254. Petra says:

    @ Robert J S at 7:15pm ….. “Next-to-zero coverage.”

    Yeah we know that the MSM will never cover such events Robert but I must have walked past hundreds if not thousands of people often stopping at lights and so on in Glasgow where they would have a great deal of time to read the messages and of course there’s also YouTube. If these posters / placards were used at EVERY march in Scotland, placed in SNP / Yes hub windows and in / on cars I reckon it could make a difference. At the end of the day anything is worth a try, imo.


    Is Gordon Brown going to haunt us for the rest of our lives? Gordon Brown the pension / Home rule liar. Gordon Brown the man who has the brass neck to blame the SNP for poverty in Edinburgh / Scotland whilst raiding pension pots to the tune of billions, selling off our gold for peanuts, involved in 6000 sq mls of Scottish seas (plus 7 oil fields) being handed over to Westminster, covering up the true wealth of Scottish oil, involved in de-regulating banks, backing and financing the Iraq war and saddling councils with PFI debt that’ll take decades to pay off ….. and the REST.

    If you’re absolutely scunnered at the thought of such a man being involved in / taking credit for the Queensferry Crossing complain to the BBC.


    And yes let’s back the Brain family (msdidi- 5:12pm). Don’t let the Home Office get away with this folks.

  255. Rock says:

    Scotland was on the verge of independence immediately after the Brexit vote.

    The unionist parties were without leaders and completely lost, the SNP had 56 out of 59 MPs and 50% of the vote, the EU’s eyes were (favourably) on Scotland.

    But Nicola squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

    The result: Nicola outsmarted by the collusion between Saints Theresa and Ruth on one hand, and Corbyn on the other, fall in SNP support from 50% to 37%.

    It is my prediction that there will be a “snap” Brexit and the SNP will be caught napping and unable to hold a second independence referendum.

    Or another “snap” Westminster election with the SNP again losing support.

    Despite the pretendy “sovereignty” and boasting of the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here, Scotland is again as far away from independence as ever.

    If they succeed in neutralising the Rev. Stuart Campbell and WOS, independence will be “stone dead” for at least 620 years.

    For the avoidance of any doubt, my mantra has long been and remains:

    “Always vote, and always vote SNP only until after independence.”

  256. louis.b.argyll says:


  257. Chick McGregor says:

    One final thing on trade. The Unionists, i.e. THE Unionists, the DUP recently claimed 65% of the RoI’s exports was to the UK.

    Unfortunately, being independent possibly helping here, Irish academics keep close tabs on such things.

    Just heard it confirmed on R4 that the real figure is 14%.

  258. heedtracker says:

    Is Gordon Brown going to haunt us for the rest of our lives?

    Crash and his merry band of yoon twits?

  259. heedtracker says:

    Despite the pretendy “sovereignty” and boasting of the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here, Scotland is again as far away from independence as ever.

    Are you still going around haranguing your “Scottish under class” Rock?

  260. louis.b.argyll says:

    I’d rather be an armchair pundit than a desperate stretcher of logic.

  261. yesindyref2 says:

    Nice bit of type-casting there on the Young Victoria (if that’s what it’s called), where a guy in the ktichen striking a kitchen maid and waving a knife, for taking stale bread, is strangely enough – Scottish.

    Next week a fight with an Irishman, a thief who’s Welsh, and a drunk who again is Scotch. Absolutely spiffing old chap.

  262. stewartb says:

    Petra @6.39pm

    “… people carried a placard / banner …”

    An interesting idea! Greater use of messages on placards – and not just at marches – may well have benefits. After all people can just walk past a street stall; refuse to take a leaflet; take a leaflet but then not read it; look at a march but see little or no new, ‘challenging’ information. But strong, short, well-designed messages in big letters on a placard would probably be read by passers-by – almost despite themselves! Time for the re-invention of the sandwich board to add to the mix in street campaigning?

  263. yesindyref2 says:

    “a desperate stretcher of logic”

    Is that a knickerbocker Tory?

  264. heedtracker says:

    “Always vote, and always vote SNP only until after independence.”

    Hey Rock, keep meaning to ask you dude, but who do you demand we vote for in Scotland, after indy?

    And if you have got the stones, or even the common decency, to answer truthfully Rock…

    bet you don’t.

  265. turnbulldrier says:

    Hey Stu, good to see you back. Keep the chin up.

    Great find on the Trump peice.. That’s a really interesting take on it.

  266. Ali says:

    I’m sure it will be front page news when it gets chucked out. Like Kezia’s case when it goes your way. Keep the chin up. These times were always coming

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