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Wings Over Scotland


Storming the nation

Posted on August 27, 2017 by

The Sunday Times has a breathless account today of Jeremy Corbyn’s triumphant five-day tour of Scotland.

It sounds like quite the event.

“As he continued a Scottish tour which has seen crowds turn out to hear him […] he will meet activists in Musselburgh, perform at the Edinburgh Fringe, and also speak at a rock festival in Glasgow.

Scottish Labour regards his five day visit as an outstanding success. Only months ago many party members wanted to bury him; now many are queuing up to praise him. His success has surprised even his harshest critics. Diehard sceptics like Lord Foulkes of Cumnock have finally come around to him.

‘As an orator he’s no Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock, but his quiet, understated style has cut through,’ the Labour peer said. ‘More and more people are coming behind him. We must support him, he is our elected leader after all.'”

While you try to get over the effusive love gushing besottedly from that quote, we thought you might like to see some images of Corbyn’s rally at Leith Links in Edinburgh today, because Scottish Labour’s Twitter account has been oddly reluctant to run many pics of the allegedly massive crowds the tour has drawn.

The first shot below was taken while he was speaking.

Always arrive early for the best spots, readers.

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Socrates MacSporran

There are lies, damned lies, and the shite the Britnational Unionist media will print about Scotland.

Dr Jim

What no loaves and fishes?

Malky

That bus left a long time ago, Jeremy. Get over it.

heedtracker

Haha! Sunday Times crew as bad as Orange Hitler and his outright lies about his puny inauguration crowd numbers.

It is very creepy watching Rupert Murdoch’s Sunday Times creeps boosting Jeremy Corbyn though. If only because uncle Rupert does exact same boosting for Trump too.

Morag

When I first saw these photos on Twitter I had no idea Corbyn was there. I thought it was just some routine local branch Sunday afternoon activity stall. If it had been that, the turnout would have been fair to OK.

Then I realised why people were tweeting the photos. It’s not Glastonbury, is it?

Wull

Seen bigger crowds at a Sunday School picnic. Not so many behind Mr. Corbyn then.

Thanks, Stu. Keep up the good work, exposing the lies, enlightening the reader and cutting through all the propaganda like a knife through butter.

The other things that have been happening only means you have them well and truly rattled.

Chick McGregor

Gon yersel Jeremy! Well, nearly.

Meg merrilees

The truth will always come out.

More power to yir elbow Stuart.

heedtracker

His success has surprised even his harshest critics. Diehard sceptics like Lord Foulkes of Cumnock have finally come around to him.”

On balance, the Times ligger probably was on the sauce pumping that kind of stuff out.

gordoz

That wouldn’t be the same John Boothman that was an ‘impartial Big Shot at the ‘impartial’ BBC would it ?

johnj

They must really hate you Stu.

galamcennalath

Half of them probably thought it was a queue for ice cream.

Simon Curran

Was it a comedy act at the Fringe?

gordoz

Why does good Lord Foulkes always remind me of Sir Les Patterson.
(Barry Humphries strangely realistic creation)

Dave McEwan Hill

Fading away already – and so is Ruth.

Here’s a crowd. Worth 100 PPBs. Heedrumhodrum ya bass
link to youtube.com

Cath

It baffled me that otherwise sane and intelligent people in England – in particular, probably a few in Scotland to though – can’t see the glaring inconsistency of papers which are vehemently anti-Labour in the UK suddenly being gushing about them in Scotland.

If anything speaks volumes about what the Labour party really are, ie the second establishment party in the UK, pro-Trident, pro-Lords, pro-Brexit and pro the status quo in every single way, it’s the fact that in Scotland the Tory press, the wealthy and establishment love them so very dearly.

Reluctant Nationalist

“We don’t believe in that shit. We just sell it. We reserve the right to believe for the young, the poor and the stupid.”

HandandShrimp

I doubt the Times will be so generous when it comes to a stand off between the Tories and Labour. It merely suits their agenda to Let Boothman carry his anti-SNP shtick from the BBC to their sad organ.

Corbyn’s visit has been a remarkable non-event though. Did he really say that it would be difficult and problematic for Scotland to have a separate legal settlement on Brexit?

Smallaxe

Well you can’t win them all, said Jeremy’s friend;
link to youtube.com

heedtracker

link to youtube.com

What ever happened to our imperial masters SLab? There’s probably more of the old SLab guard here than in the photos of JC’s tour flop. This is still really the funniest politics youtube vid out there too.

Chic McGregor

At least gazebo on loan from the garden centre shows they had realistic expectations.

Iain

Gosh the fellow is amazing, the crowd is as big as a fibdem party conference.

Petra

Ha, ha, ha! You wonder how many of the ‘crowd’, of less than a hundred by the looks of it, just wandered over to see what was going on ….. and then did a runner.

Who wants to listen to a man who doesn’t even know that Scotland has it’s own distinct legal system and blames the SNP for poverty in Scotland? Worst still saying it’s a disgrace that they won’t mitigate it when it was his party that blocked relevant powers being devolved to Scotland (Smith) and his party that has backed Tory austerity measures.

“Third world Scottish cities”, he says. It’s well seeing that he doesn’t have a clue about Scotland and didn’t visit over the decades when his own party was in power.

heedtracker

Huge JC boost from The National tomorrow, banner frontpage, “Labour in Brexit wake up call.”

Well The National crew keep saying they’re not er, on one side or the other or, something. JC will be very pleased with this front page though, very, considering The National says its pro Scottish indy.

The National?Verified account @ScotNational 10m10 minutes ago

Tomorrow @ScotNational Labour in Brexit wake-up call – Corbyn’s party finally recognises how damaging an extreme Tory Brexit would be

Wee Folding Bike

Looked like he hikacked a civil servant demo in Coatbridge but the photos were still very tightly cropped which hides a low turnout.

Tam the Bam.

I posted on the National’s front page pic of The Weirs and their (at best) clumsily incompetent..(at worst) deliberate headline ‘MILLIONAIRES DONATE £25million to tories war-chest’…that were it indeed deliberate..I would terminate my subscription…and now this.Considering my position.

Tinto Chiel

Wow, at last, after all these years! Physical proof!

Schroedinger’s crowd?

Pathetic/not pathetic.

What a steaming load of Carmichael.

Smallaxe

HandandShrimp says:

“Corbyn’s visit has been a remarkable non-event though. Did he really say that it would be difficult and problematic for Scotland to have a separate legal settlement on Brexit?”

Yes, he did say that!
Jeremy Corbyn: ‘Very, very difficult’ to have separate Brexit;
link to archive.is

Seasick Dave

It’s lucky it wasn’t raining otherwise he wouldn’t have got such a massive turnout.

Cactus

Ahhhhh ha ha ha.

Now that was funny.

Cram them in.

Corbyn could ONLY ever do or be good for England, not Scotland.

We can barely see ye Jeremy n co fae oor top floor bathroom window.

Safe journey.

jimnarlene

Taxi for Corbyn, bye.

ClanDonald

My favourite moments from Stormin’ Corbyn’s tour were his reference to the “regions and nations of England” and then claiming that a separate legal system for Scotland would be “difficult and problematic.” Oh dear, what an embarassment, wahahaha.

heedtracker

Graun loves JC now.

Beeb r4 gimps are also boosting old Corbyn but none of UKOK hackdom has actually explained, how JC will make the EU keep the UK in the EU free market. I know, its just how tory propaganda works. Continued EU fishing and control of UKOK fishing can’t be worth that much surely.

Sunday 27 August 2017 18.27 BST

At last, Labour has wrested the Brexit debate from the Tories
Zoe Williams

The Conservatives’ internal divisions were wreaking havoc on the UK. Keir Starmer’s intervention has brought this period to an end

dandy dons 1903

Ah Johnnie Bossyman ex BBC jockland writing a glowing piece about a non entity visit by a British Nationalist charlatan on the con in Scotland. How delightfully colonial.

Robert Graham

I would have thought the Messiah would have been here for the official opening of Alex Salmonds vanity project, broon has already stuck his neb in with the usual assistance from the BBC in Scotland, Is there any way a toll can be levied on Union supporters say £20.00 one way, now that’s a tax raising power that’s not been explored yet, I know Jackie Ballie the tax expert will be on the ball nothing passes her watchful eye , I mean the 40000 jobs dependent on trident will in the end have to be replaced, The brass neck of Corbyn visiting a steel plant that took the SNP to save was f/n breathtaking, if we don’t watch Kezia closely, she will be claiming that the bridge was only possible because of the Union ,

heedtracker

The UK Labour leader said it would be very complicated to separate things out because some companies operate across the whole of the country, and that a UK-wide agreement is needed.

He also said that the idea of separate economic and legal systems in different parts of the UK becomes “difficult and very problematic”.

link to stv.tv

Should rattle a few Scots lawyer’s teacups. He’s not the messiah poor old JC.

ClanDonald

@Petra, did Corbyn actually say Scotland’s cities are third world? Do you have a link?

Forward as One

The official figure for the March & Rally for Independence in Dunfermline (same day as corbyn) was a small event and official police figures said 2000 in attendance at the march. That’s substancially more than both of corbyns events combined.

Petra

@ Heedtracker at 9:23pm ……. “Imperial Masters.”

Yeah that has to be considered a classic HD. Alex Salmond thinks so too … fell about laughing, seemingly. I just love everything about it such as the signs of Scottish innovation and humour. I also felt that most of these Labour politicians / activists didn’t want to come to Glasgow in part due to it supposedly being a real Mean City, so not surprising when you see some who look as though they’re ready to have a bout of diarrhoea wondering what’s going to happen next. Wee Kelly’s beeliebag face is a picture too.

Macart

Pretty dire right enough.

So much for ‘more honest politics’.

Rock

A majority of Scots being the most stupid people on earth, Corbyn poses a very big risk in further reducing SNP support at the next “snap” general election.

A certain poster, who now posts under another name, was confidently predicting that Labour would be lucky to get 15%. They ended up with 27%.

Thepnr:

“Just thought I should mention I think Labour in Scotland will be lucky if they get 15% of the vote in this GE. Hopefully less.”

Rock:

“Unfortunately, more than 20% of the voting public in Scotland remains stupid enough to vote for Labour.”

The SNP must take Corbyn extremely seriously.

Never underestimate the British Establishment.

Tinto Chiel

“My favourite moments from Stormin’ Corbyn’s tour were his reference to the “regions and nations of England” and then claiming that a separate legal system for Scotland would be “difficult and problematic.” Oh dear, what an embarassment, wahahaha.”

To be fair, ClanDonald, he was only 310 years out on the lack of awareness scale.

Might be a record for a Labour politician, mind.

Rock

This article, together with the pictures, should be front page headline news in tomorrow’s or Tuesday’s edition of the “independence supporting” The National.

Grouse Beater

Contrast Corbyn’s gab fest with Alex Salmond’s show at the Fringe, every night a sell-out, and standing ovations …

Smallaxe

Apologies, my post at 9:22 was meant for O/T.

galamcennalath

ClanDonald says:

“regions and nations of England”

Video of that one, for posterity?

Rock

It does not matter how many people Corbyn actually attracted.

When the likes of Milliband turned up in Scotland before the referendum, they only met Labour activists for a few minutes behind closed doors.

Reports of fictitious crowds are all that are needed to fool gullible voters.

yesindyref2

Youo get more crowds around just the Wings Over Scotland stall – and that’s without even the Rev being there!

Joe of the Coutts

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock? That’ll help a lot I’m sure.

Cal

I never buy the National when Jeremy Conman is on the cover. We should all do that and maybe they’ll notice a big dip in their sales. Simple cause and effect – they’ll get the message quickly enough.

Ken MacColl

Not difficult to see why Boothman’s sycophantic article was not accompanied by pictures. Why any radical Scot could be attracted to the pro Trident policy endorsed by Corbyn, the swithering approach to Brexit, and his blanket opposition to further self determination may attract the support of worthy old soaks like the noble Lord Foulkes of Cumnock. We note that Kezia Dugdale has undergone a Damascene conversion about Jeremy and his suitability for high office but it would now seem likely that her number is already up.
The standard of reporting on politics in Scotland is dire and consistently dishonest.Boothman is a regular offender but he is far from unique. If he attended this “rally” he must have seen that the attendance was sparse. If he was not there did he just reissue the SLAB Press Release?

Tam the Bam.

O/T

M

Smallaxe

ClanDonald;

Corbyn said: “This ward where we are standing now has a very low life expectancy, lower in many cities than what we choose to call the third world.
link to archive.is

Tam the Bam.

O/T

Misreporting Scotland predictably ‘talk-over’ Jeremy crashing the car into Scots law…..

*Jeremy:Scots law?………wots that then?

Robert J. Sutherland

OMG, it’s Jim Murphy reincarnated!

(The same portable media bubble. Except with even fewer numbers.)

=laughs like a drain=

Joemcg

Totally agree with Rock and some other posters. A golden opportunity was lost in the immediate aftermath of the EU referendum. God knows why Nicola and the party dragged their heels and didn’t strike while the iron was hot. Fannied about and we lost the greatest chance since 1707. Extremely annoying and maybe unrecoverable.

ClanDonald

@galamcennalath

I don’t know how to link it but I saw the video on Scotland Tonight’s twitter feed, if you search @ScotlandTonight you should be able to find it, it was the interview with Bernard Ponsonby.

Or hold on, I’ll give it a go, try this, not sure if it will work, if it doesn’t link try copy and pasting it. Otherwise maybe someone else can find it and give it a go:

twitter.com/ScotlandTonight/status/900820836558544896

Tinto Chiel

Smallaxe 10.30: indeed!

Probs caused by: BLiS______d being in charge of Glasgow for 70+ years and Labour voting with/abstaining on Tory austerity measures.

Hypocrite doesn’t really cover it, eh?

Bugs Bunny: “What a maroon!”

Smallaxe

galamcennalath says:
27 August, 2017 at 10:11 pm
ClanDonald says:
“regions and nations of England”
Video of that one, for posterity?

For Posterity;
link to youtube.com
🙂

ClanDonald

Thanks, Smallaxe, glad it’s on youtube, STV will probably remove their one soon.

dakk

Why didn’t the quintessential English conman visit Faslane to drum up support for that Labour flagship policy?

This latest British Nationalist Labour fake lefty will sorely disappoint all the poor young English people who sing his praises.

Old drip of a man.

heedtracker

Murdoch’s goons love JC, beeb r4 tory gimps love Crash Gordo.

What ever could be happening out here, to suddenly make great and the good socialist workers, JC and Crash, so suddenly lovable to hard core britnat tories today?

link to bbc.co.uk

As the longest three-tower, cabled-stayed bridge in the world opens in Scotland, Gordon Brown shares the story of the three bridges over the Forth in whose shadow he lives.”

Robert J. Sutherland

Aren’t we so wonderfully happy, everyone, to be just another nation of England.

With the dead duck of Federalism on the table. Somebody should tell El Gordo, since he said we have that already. (Probably why it’s not just dead, but putrefying.)

And old Grandad Cobblers in charge.

The best of all possible worlds.

(Or not.)

Clootie

Corbyn has lost all credibility.
You cannot hold socialist values and staunch hardline unionist values at the same time. You either have rationale social values or you don’t….except in Labour circles apparently!

Smallaxe

ClandDonald, you’re more than welcome, my friend.

Tam the Bam.

joemcg…10-35pm

‘why didn’t Nicola strike whilst the iron was hot?’

What did you have in mind Joe?

jfngw

Here we were, just assuming that our dear Kezia would easily walk away with most uninformed political leader of the year award, then up pops Corbyn. Here is a man that still hasn’t got to grips with the union after 300 years. Maybe we should have the treaty inscribed on a man-hole cover to attract his attention.

[…] Wings Over Scotland Storming the nation The Sunday Times has a breathless account today of Jeremy Corbyn’s triumphant […]

frogesque

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Labour is a busted flush.

Iain MacGillivray

Seen more people in a hut with Teresa may, or at a trump inuguration…..

Iain MacGillivray

Seen more people in a hut with Teresa may, or at a trump inauguration…..

Robert Graham

Now that is a coincidence, I pointed out the BBC Scottish news hadn’t updated for two days, then presto within ten minutes of posting here it suddenly changed, now that’s strange their Scottish news like clockwork usually updates around midnight or just after. Tin hat time or are the crew at Pacific heights following what is going on here , Hello, Hello, Waving, Hello Hello, oh f/k it’s the pills ha ha .

Graeme McCormick

Leith Links was their second choice. They tried to book the Hydro

Paula Rose

Yay – had more folk at my Yes picnic!

Hamish100

Isn’t pretendy prof ex labour MSP Susan Deacon who is against free personal healthcare got a partner called John Boothman who used to work at the bbc?

or is this all just co-incidence?

Wheres my lottery ticket.

Next we will have gordon the bruno on radio 4 saying he used to build bridges.

liebour -the biggest chancers on the planet

Liz g

I’ve always took the view that if Corbin had what it takes to be Prime Minister,it would have shown it’s self long before now!
The narrative of how he became party leader against all the odds.
The “struggle” to stay true to the will of the people who voted for him.
The attacks from his own “comrades”……
All a wee bit too Hollywood and no enough Holyrood for me!!
This guy is IMHO an approved alternative to keep the natives thinking that they are getting a choice.
And if the English electorate were paying any attention?????
His behaviour and utterances in and about Scotland demonstrates it!

OT…. espically if Skip NC is reading!!
My thoughts & love are with the people of Texas tonight.
I can’t do a thing for them….but I am thinking of them X

Robert Louis

Pro Trident, Pro Brexit, anti immigration, self proclaimed ‘leftie’ Jeremy Corbyn is just one of so many London/English politicians to come up to Scotland, and tell us Scots where we are going wrong. The sad fact is, that as usual, this particular example of utterly patronising arrogance from England, clearly knows sweet F all about Scotland.

Jeremy would better serve his time (and that of the people of Scotland) by b***ering off back to England.

It is staggering that even now, in 2017, people such as the leader of the London British Labour party still do not know such basic facts such as that Scotland has a completely separate and very different legal system from that in England, and that it’s continuity is enshrined within article 19 of the treaty of union of 1707.

The man is an ignorant, patronising, English fool. Scotland needs Jeremy Corbyn and his self-important, patronising ilk, like a proverbial hole in the head.

ElaineS

Disgusts me he was sniffing round Kirkcaldy, even Gordon Brown keeps out of town as much as possible since he knows we know he crapped on us from big height when he swanned around the world in his last term as MP, he was never to be seen unless for odd fotoshoot by his pal Allan Crowe in the local Johnson Press own Fife Free Press and in his last year he only had 1 surgery and attended WM on 13% in last year. I wonder if it was Brown who suggested St Bryce Kirk, the Kirk of Brown’s Reverend Dad…..funny how during Indy Campaign it was Yes movement that often had Yes events in that Kirk and Brown used other places in town……..probably knew the roof would fall in the minute he started lying through his back teeth, probably never risked doinghis No events there unless he was damned to hell. Lesley Laird only won with a maj of 259 but Labour got less than Election in 2015, I still cant work out HOW Roger Mullin lost his 10k majority when Tories doubled their 5k to 10k and Labour got less votes than 2015 yet won with majority of 259. I seen another photo of the”ordinary” folk seemingly down to meet Corbyn….I recognise them as Labour members/activists and as an ex activist, this is what local Labour does, we usually got told to get down and attend and pretend.

Still Positive

Corbyn is an a**e who doesn’t know anything about Scotland including our separate legal system. He also knows nothing about the SNP SG spending £100m per year mitigating Tory welfare cuts which his party voted for and the SNP MPs voted against.

Robert Louis

Remember that phrase “regions and nations of England”. The words of Jeremy Corbyn. Scotland, a ‘nation of England’.

Just let that sink in, the next time you get tempted to vote Labour.

Big Phil

We are all being fecked with our clothes on , these barstewards are out tae crush us.
@ Heedtracker.. you the one on the bike on youtube ??? lol

Robert Peffers

@Colin Alexander:

I was composing a very detailed reply to your usual claptrap, Colin and had almost finished. I was proofreading and re-doing anything that was not abundantly clear when the whole thing vanished into the ether. I am not about to re-do it.

Suffice to say not a single point you attempted to make stood up to careful examination.

I will quote just one example just to make the point – Your claim that the English pay higher Council Tax than the Scots came after you made a point that council tax is roughly equivalent to the property values.

This is laughable, Colin. I personally have two aunts who left Scotland to work as London Civil Servants and who married fairly high ranking London Civil Servants way back before WWII.

Eventually they both were widowed and they each had only one adult child.

They both sold up fairly modest London dwellings. One Aunt moved to a Northern English Town to a much larger semi-detached dwelling that included three other flats that she rented out and the property also contained a large yard and a set of outbuildings that enabled her unmarried son to set himself up in a Taxi Business that now employs several people. All from the sale of that one modest London flat.

The other Aunt returned to Scotland with her married daughter and family to a large country house with a fair acreage of land and a horse paddock and stables. The Stables are run by her daughter and her daughter husband. Again all from the profits from the sale of a fairly modest London flat.

Yet you make a point of claiming the Englanders pay higher Council tax. Of course they do for that tax is based upon property value and not just unit size.

BTW: The Scottish per capita Gross Domestic Product is normally higher than either the combined United Kingdom Per-Capita GDP or of any other UK country.

If you bother to study what per capita GDP actually is you will find it is the total revenues raised by any particular geographic area divided by the total population of that area.

In this example it is United Kingdom Countries and because it is on a per capita basis the unequal population sizes are irrelevant.

Thus as Scotland’s per capita GDP is higher than that of every other individual UK country that means the Scots must be already the highest taxed people in the United Kingdom. That is the revenue raised on average by each Scot is greater than any other UK country.

Don’t just take my word for it, Colin, go check out the ONS, (Office of National Statistics), figures for yourself but bear in mind that there are other false figures that indicate the Scots GDP is actually some way higher that the ONS ever shows.

I can quote several such scammed examples but the example I have chosen is that the ONS classes all Oil & Gas Revenues as being from, “Extra-Regio-Territory”. But these oil & gas revenues are actually up to 98% from Scottish territorial waters. Yet they are not counted in the Scottish Per-capita GDP.

Then they UK Government compound that error by estimating, (and only for other statistical calculations), that Scotland’s share of the raised revenue is based, not on 98% geographic area but on a population share of 8.4% of the total UK population.

sinky

Times article by ex BBC head of news John Boothman whose partner was Labour MSP.
Just saying…

Petra

O/T

@ ClanDonald at 9:51pm …. “Third World.”

I read about this in the Sun on Friday / yesterday? CD. It was a snippet on page 2 which I typed out in full in the last article on here. You might get some data online. Hope that helps.

………………………………..

Here we go with the slag the National again. Has anyone else noticed that individuals on here who constantly castigate the SNP (professing to be Indy supporters) and run down the National never have anything derogatory to say about Labour, Tories, Libdems, the Daily Record, the Express, the Mail, Guardian etc. Strange, eh?

………………………………

@Tam the Bam at 9:40pm … ‘ The National front page article on the Weirs.

Just trying to figure out what day that article was on the front page of the National, Tam. Maybe you could let me know what I’ve missed. What day?

What I read, on page 2 (25/08/17), clearly pointed out that the Weirs had donated money to the SNP (some loaned). The Tories had received £25 million (that we know about) such as from people like oil tycoon Alasdair Locke whose photograph was on that page. Labour had received £9.5 million, Libdems £4.3 million and £596,000 was donated to the SNP …. £500,000 of that from the Weirs. In other words if it wasn’t for the Weirs the SNP would be struggling on a paltry £96,000.

The article also highlighted that Labour’s Alex Rowley attacked the SNP for accepting money from millionaires (the Weirs) whilst they, Labour, “raise small individual donations from millions of ordinary people.” No mention that the majority of their money comes from Unions and big buck billionaire donators such as JKR.

The article was full of interesting data. Now why would you be complaining about that, I wonder?

……………………………………..

The Sunday Herald had a great front page today. Extremely helpful for the Independence cause, especially with Corbyn mooching about Scotland. ‘Special Report …. Scottish Labour in Civil War’ with a 2 page spread including Findlay tearing Murphy (and McTernan) to shreds.

Additionally 2 pages on Scottish culture / history, an exposé of Scottish companies breaching International sanctions against Russia, a report on the devastating threat of climate change to Scotland, great article on Iraq, McWhirters ‘Brexit: a very British act of self-harm’ which highlights that the UK Government has always had the power to restrict immigration if it really wanted to and an article on Davidson’s dinosaurs – “something sinister lurking in the ranks of the opposition.”

Four pages had been allocated to the subject of GERS covered by Professor Richard Murphy, Prof Graeme Roy (Fraser of Allander), Gordon McIntyre Kemp and Margaret Cuthbert.

All in all extremely informative and most definitely supporting the Independence movement.

Meg merrilees

There’s a good article in the Scotsman – ‘Davidson’s mask has slipped’ re the farce of the Stirling councillors being re-instated and Ross the Referee’s gypsy remark.

Can’t archive it, sorry.

It’s open for BTL comments but virtually every single remark has been ‘removed for review’.

Obviously a controversial topic!!!

davidb

Foulkes – “More and more people are coming behind him.”

He’d be wise to watch those ones the most, for a lot of them will have knives.

Hamish100

rock and tam the bam

cant read the National for fear of the truth touching their sensitive spots

ClanDonald

John Boothman “left” his job at BBC after being caught bullying Margo McDonald’s daughter.

Oddly the BBC failed to cover the story.

link to dailyrecord.co.uk

colin alexander

@Robert Peffers

Interesting response and hopefully other readers found it interesting too.

boris
Norman Stewart

And at least two of that crowd are mates of mine,Yes voters.

Tom McAlister

I can’t see the loon in the photos. Perhaps Lurch (Jim Murphy) will lend him his auld Irn Brew crate since they’re both redundant these days.

Liz g

Robert Peffers @ 11.38
I do hope that you are not going to dignify the response to your 11.38 post with an answer.
Your time is much more valuable than that Robert!
How rude, and it has to be said,ignorant of that person.

Would love it if you turned that insight of your’s on to Corbin…..what dae ye think of him?
How much of a threat to indy do you see him as?

Robert Peffers

I’m not kidding or exaggerating here when I say that when I attended school in Leith back in the late 1940s/early 1950s we used to play football at lunchtime on Leith Links.

We would start out as 11 a side and then, as guys finished their lunches, we would add players equally as they arrived.

We would finish up with two bigger sides than in those photos of the Corbyn rally.

yesindyref2

Oh dear, The National front page and headline. That’ll go down well with getting on for half of Scottish Labour voters 😎

Pax vobiscum!

Liz g

Yesindyref2 @ 12.30
Whit does the pax v..!!?!!! Thing mean?

Big Phil

@
Liz g ,
Smallaxe knows. 😉

yesindyref2

@Liz g
Peace go with you!

Seemed appropriate somehow, with Corbyn throwing out Blairites, and now the Labour Brexiteers taking umbrage. Soon it’ll be just him, Dugdale and Murray left.

Oh.

Seems the N is starting to fight fire with fire.

dakk

davidb says:
28 August, 2017 at 12:01 am
Foulkes – “More and more people are coming behind him.”

Whatever turns you on I suppose.

Corbyn has a highly unnatractive scrawny crotch and backside to my eye.

Foulkes must be talking through drink

Big Phil

Corbyn hasnt got a clue about Scotland. He treats us like a ‘region’ , the thing is that we (as a collective) let him. Where were the banners saying so. We all knew that wee man was coming here yet there was NO demo. Were wer we ?? honest question, 😉

Chick McGregor

First, second and third Forth Bridges – easy spin for our fifth columnists.

Petra

@ Boris 12:13pm …….. Boris I can’t thank you enough for the time, effort / research you obviously put into your articles. Just to let you know that I’ve saved all of your posts as the data therein always seems to come in very useful indeed.

………………………………………………..

@ Norman Stewart at 12:17am …. “And at least two of that crowd are mates of mine. Yes voters.”

Ha, ha, ha! Not one bit surprised but still the best laugh of the day.

Big Phil

@
Chick McGregor, yer a cunnylinquist sir and no mistake. lol

Gerry Gribbons

More people at the Independence Rally in Dunfermline on Saturday than at all these Labour meetings combined

yesindyref2

From the Herald, closed to comment:

Research carried out by the Press Association looked at the quickest possible Friday services between certain major UK towns and cities.

It worked out the average speed by analysing the distance AS THE CROW FLIES between key destinations and the rail journey time.

It showed the 13.34 Edinburgh to Perth service, covering a distance of 32 miles, took 76 minutes. It showed an average speed of only 25mph. ” (my bold)

“As the crow flies”.

And THAT describes the incredibly shoddy state of journalism today.

Robert J. Sutherland

Big Phil @ 00:56,

These things are hardly public events, y’know. Strictly by invitation – local activists only. Like El Broonzo’s outings for BT during the indyref and others since, the locations are kept secret, and the media are held to a strict code of omerta, under pain of everlasting exclusion from the charmed circle.

These media chumps know fine well that these puny photo ops are a farce, but they never let on. Au contraire, they connive at hiding it. As the BBC did at the previous “Scottish” Lab and Tory party conferences, where the pathetic lack of numbers was hidden by deliberately low camera angles.

Thanks to WoS, in this matter as with other things, we can get the true picture.

yesindyref2

forgot:

link to archive.is

“Scots trains run slower on average than London based services”

Somebody please buy the Press Association a map of Scotland showing train tracks. And the Herald, come to that.

Highland Wifie

Looks like they’re getting ready for one of those how many people can you fit in a phone box events if you ask me.

Robert J. Sutherland

yesindyref2 @ 01:49,

Just as well there isn’t a train station at Ballater now, or I hate to think what those fools would have reckoned for the notional (there’s that word again!) “speed” =ahem= between there and Aviemore!

Big Phil

@Robert J. Sutherland,
We all knew he was coming here Robert,I know what you’re saying , its just so frustrating that we are powerless. rips ma knitting. ;-(

James Barr Gardner

O/T
I was telling my older brother today about the Forward Together March and Rally in Dunfermline on Saturday, he told me the BBC reported 200 people at it. WTF! I was there, even the Police said 2000. Aye 2000 is about right for the March, haud on whit aboot the folk who could nae walk the 2 miles and opted to turn up at the park, an whit aboot the car cavalcade that took off to the Park before the start of the March. Intae the bargain whit aboot the YES BIKERS who were there and attended the Rally. All I kin say BBC if you say it’s 200, weel then youse are shower o’lyin’ bastarts an ye would pit Tam Pepper tae shame. BTW it wis a crackin’ day and if you wurnae there, weel you missed a smashin’ upliftin’ day.
BTW Rev Stu there were Twa Wings Flags flyin’ awe day in the bright sunshine awe thro’ the Toon and intae the Park, with it’s grand view o’ the new bridge ower the Forth!

yesindyref2

The Press Association must be taking “The Flying Scotsman” literally.

I hope THAT nonsense makes the headlines – all over the world.

Big Phil

@Robert J. Sutherland,
And ,even though its ‘Invitation only’,we surely have enough people that should know whats happening around their areas, we’re fighting against the best (cough) intelligence corp(corrupted) that the establishment can muster yet they come up here and take the piss .bloody foreigners…. see wot i did there. ? 😉

yesindyref2

@RJS
Indeed.

link to google.co.uk…93499.95263.0.95853.9.9.0.0.0.0.215.1111.0j6j2.8.0….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..1.7.969…33i160k1j33i21k1.F8ID-H0UT_c

yesindyref2

Mmmm, instead of 32 miles as the crow flies, it’s roughly 75 miles on actual rail tracks rather than up up and away by airtrain. Can’t find any actual exact figure though. Which would make the average speed 60 mph, not 25 mph, including stops at stations including Haymarket, which for the terrain ain’t bad.

I wish this clustermsm would go big, as it’s not just a newspaper, it’s the Press Assocation itself, and shows how totally fsking ignorant they are about Scotland.

yesindyref2

Or maybe 70 miles around Fife.

I need to get a life.

Dr Jim

British Nationalists complain Scottish Nationalists hate the Inglish (not true) while they’re enforcing a vote based on hating everybody
British Nationalists spout racism and sectarianism get caught doing it then get away with it if they say they’ve apologised in private
British Nationalists say Scotland is an equal regional part of their country of Inglind and don’t even notice they said it (Jeremy Corbyn)

And finally, British Nationalists are afraid and confused about the name of their own country (which is actually Inglind) Britain=location like Europe=location, Asia and so on

The other three countries in Britain have different names

Skip_NC

Lizg, I have some professional colleagues in TX, getting hit with twenty inches of rain in the last two days and it hasn’t stopped. Schools are closed until after Labor Day (first Monday in September) and people are being mandatorily evacuated. We have a neighbour with relatives in Texas and I would not be surprised to see them here for an extended period, if they were able to get away.

Here in Raleigh, we should just about miss the worst of Tropical Storm Irma. 30mph winds and some rain tomorrow evening until Tuesday afternoon is what we’re getting. We are very fortunate.

sassenach

Good morning, thought I’d peruse the comments before the ‘man from C&A’ starts his shift of anti-SNP garbage once more.

I’m glad to see Stu has hopefully returned to his blogs – it’s been a worrying week!!

It’s bad enough having to see all the anti-indy guff thrown at us from all directions when our main avenue of expression, WoS, is being attacked.

There is so much stuff out there just now from Corbyn, Tory bigot councillors (and their Leaderine), and, blimey, even Crash is being resurrected – and our ‘main man’ is being handicapped!!

I can only hope there are European leaders taking note of these matters, as well. It’s a long process getting our ‘home crowd’ to see the light about what the Britnats are doing to Scotland – for God’s sake what WILL it take to convince them?

sassenach

Just noticed the good old BBC Scotland propaganda is (once again) in doing down Scotland mode.

According to their site, our schools are rubbish (AGAIN!) following “co-ordinated FOI requests”. How much do the BBC cost the Scottish government in cash and time with all their repeated FOIs?

Ghillie

Paula Rose 11.15 pm

‘Yah – Had more folk at my Yes picnic!’

Of course you did Paula Pose = )

YOU are well loved and worth spending time with 🙂

Breeks

sassenach says:
28 August, 2017 at 5:26 am
“Just noticed the good old BBC Scotland propaganda is (once again) in doing down Scotland mode.

According to their site, our schools are rubbish (AGAIN!) following “co-ordinated FOI requests”. How much do the BBC cost the Scottish government in cash and time with all their repeated FOIs?”

Aye. FOIs which they themselves regularly spurn at leisure.

I’m getting caught up on stuff too. I read Tommy Sheppards lecture in the National, but didn’t find it very reassuring.

I think the SNP is in danger of floundering. I hope with every fibre the Autumn conference is the catalyst required to have the SNP refocus on the principles of Brexit rather than the popularity. Unless the SNP seizes the initiative and grasps hold of the sovereign aspect of Scotland’s Remain vote in 2016, then they are going to be an irrelevance to the Brexit process until it is much too late to salvage anything. If we don’t fight Brexit before it happens, then all is lost.

Sadly, Mr Sheppards speech seems to telegraph that nothing is going to happen until Brexit is finalised, and the next “ScotRef” becomes the shorthand description of a “EuroRef”, which won’t matter a damn because we’ll be out of Europe and complicit with abandoning our claims to be a sovereign people.

Unless we get our heads and hands around this notion of Scottish sovereignty, then we are dangerously ill equipped, and stupidly ill equipped, to win any constitutional battle with Westminster. And rest assured, winning the constitutional Battle of Britain is much more important than the democratic battle about Europe. That isn’t an argument for forfeiting the democratic battle, but it is grievous warning that we dare not forfeit the constitutional control of our sovereignty.

Defend our sovereignty, then win, lose, or draw, Scotland can make its own decisions. Abandon sovereignty to the constitutional jungle which Westminster has grown all around it, and we may never see it again.

Independence is 100% ALL about sovereignty. FFS Stop faffing about and get the Goddamned priorities right. Scotland voted Remain, and dragging Scotland out of Europe is a brazen flouting of Scotland’s democratically expressed sovereignty, and that is an unqualified and unambiguous act of unconstitutional subjugation. You don’t roll over and have a vote to ratify that, you fight it. You prevent it from happening.

Ghillie

No ticker tape parade for Jeremy Corbyn…

The upside of Mr Corbyn’s visit is that his dismal reception all over Scotland mibee means he won’t come back.

I do feel sorry for the folk of England though that this is the best they have to turn to.

T.roz

Some crowd, just looks like there is a wee fight in the park.

sassenach

Breeks

Yes, I also am hoping for some concrete happenings at the Conference, because, like yourself, I have felt this last while that the Party is not leading as I think it should.

I’m still a member and will not vote any other way before independence, but my patience is being exhausted, lately. However the SNP are the only game in town in respect of Indy.

I sincerely hope that, in view of the news about the ‘Bridge opening’ that Nicola will make sure everyone is told (in her remarks) who built this thing, and who opposed it. If it just becomes another butcher’s apron waving, Her Maj, Fest, then I’ll be fuming.

Robert Louis

I have to say, I agree with others above, that Tommy Shepherd is totally out of sync with the support. The SNP will be finished, if they sit back and let brexit happen. They are supposed to stop it hsppening, not allow it to take place.

It feels to me that many in the SNP higher levels are getting too cosy, indeed. For at least a year, we have been repeatedly assured, ‘Nicola has a plan’, do not be concerned.

Well, if the plan is just to close your eyes and pretend brezit isn’t about to trash Scotland, then yes, but otherwise I see nothing happening. It is all talk, and no action.

People are angry, about brexit. Really, really angry. They want it stopped, not to let it happen, the economy to be in ruin then for the FM (if such a position still exists) to come along and say, ‘let’s have a referendum on brexit’. Unfathomably stupid.

The people of Scotland (not just indy supporters) will never forgive the SNP if they allow brexit to happen. This is a fight, and it looks like the SNP just want to run away and hide, saying wel, mibbes we can have a referendum in ten years, or mibbes we can wait another year and see…

It is like this, as regards Scotland’s powers. Each time the FM backs down, Westminster does not also back down, they advance, and take more. Then the next potential problem comes up, the SNP back down, and Westminster advances more. All I see, is reatreat, retreat, retreat, and lots of empty talk.

Brexit is very, very real, and I have had people say to me, why is Nicola Sturgeon not doing anything? Why are we not having the referendum?

That is real, that is what is happening. What Tommy Shpeherd had to say was unmitigated surreal baloney of the very highest order. Once brexit happens, the Scottish Government (if it even exists) will have even fewer powers than at present. THAT is what Westminster is about to do.

Brexit is real. If the SNP Scot Gov does not want to fight, then they should be honest with the people of Scotland, so we can all get our Irish passports, and leave.

I fully expect their will be NO Scottish Parliament in posy Brexit Britain England.

Ghillie

Tommy Shepherd’s words worked = )

NOW folk are galvanised again!

We are back to discussing WHAT we want, WHEN we want it to happen and WHY.

Focussed my mind!

Keep it up folks! We ARE on our Road to Independence 🙂

sassenach

Ghillie

I also believe we are on the Road, but we are up against a most nefarious opposition, both in terms of political parties and a totally propagandised media led by the BBC.

If Brexit happens then I believe firmly that we can say goodbye to Holyrood very shortly afterwards. We cannot be allowed to leave, Scotland is far too valuable to Inglind – would that but Scots would actually realise this…..grrrr!

Derick fae Yell

With respect folks.

On the 2014 timetable of 18 months from a Yes vote to independence, and the 3-4 year EU Article 49 accession timetable, to stay in the EU seamlessly before March 2019 Scotland needs to win a Yes vote in 2011 or 2012.

That ship has sailed.

We may rejoin the EU in due course. We may (more likely) seek to join EFTA to stay in the Single Market. But pinning a referendum on “staying in the EU” is not a viable proposition.

Tommy Shepherd’s suggest that the timetable needs to be flexible has merit.

Ian McCubbin

Thos os same unionist propaganda as in 2014 independence campaign.
Agree with many hear SNP need to be firmer. But timing is crucial and not sure exacttly when is best myself.

Hamish100

Fae yell

No ship has sailed – yet
We are still in the EU as citizens until we leave or are thrown out. Of course waiting until the ukippers \ little Englanders tell us we are out is too late and removes 1 option.

Macart

Heh! So much for the Britnat press drone/cult theory of all things indy.

For the Britnats and Britnat policy gonks having a fly read? Your slip’s showing and your narrative’s looking a bit shaky. 😉

Smallaxe

LINKS;

More than 100 people receive hospital treatment after ‘chemical haze’ drifts onshore at Beachy Head;
link to archive.is

A monstrous offshore wind-farm is planned for the Moray coast, to power 750 000 homes and create 2 000 jobs. More evidence we need the Union to survive?;
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
to-survive/

Queensferry Crossing – a bridge to economic resilience;
link to news.gov.scot

Smallaxe

LINKS;

Extra £10m for Edinburgh Festivals;
link to news.gov.scot

Use it or Lose it;
link to indyref2.scot

Monuments tell us about ourselves as well as the past we used to celebrate;
link to newsnet.scot

Smallaxe

LINKS;

Aristocrat jailed for menacing Gina Miller messages drops his appeal;
link to thelondoneconomic.com

UK’s Labour Backs Single Market Membership During Brexit;
link to bloomberg.com

Jeremy Hunt continues war of words with Stephen Hawking over NHS;
link to archive.is

Smallaxe

LINKS;

Deaths soar as UK gov cuts Drug and Alcohol Support Funding;
link to thecanary.co

Little Britain star just took on a Tory MP over his ‘racist’ rant. Guess who won [TWEETS];
link to thecanary.co

Tommy Sheppard is wrong: the independence referendum should be held before the May 2021 election;
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk

thewaterbeastie

I can remember being part of a bigger crowd of door-to-door Yes canvassers there at Leith Links in the last 40 days to the September 2014 referendum…

Smallaxe

LINKS;

Labour has bought time, and a bit more;
link to taxresearch.org.uk

‘I have two children with me and the water is swallowing me up’: Thousands stranded due to Hurricane Harvey;
link to thejournal.ie

Tory MSP’s aide is convicted boat thief and drink-driver… and party bosses knew when they hired him;
link to archive.is

Smallaxe

LAST BUT NOT LEAST;
Alex Salmond has backed independent Scotland to have own pound;
link to archive.is

jdman

I’ve seen Ronnie attract FAR bigger crowds to a Wings stall.

Muscleguy

@Yesindyref2
Even a map of the tracks won’t help you. The line from Cupar to Perth is not passenger rated. Edinburgh to Perth you have to go to Dundee then transfer to a Perth bound train. Hence the 76min. It’s probably quicker to take the bus.

Something does need fixing there, but then undoing the worst excesses of Beeching will take a long time.

If you look at an OS map ‘dismantled railway’ is a remarkably common feature. Not all was due to Beeching. There used to be rail lines from Forfar and Brechin to here in Broughty Ferry, when there was a ferry. They had to bring it back into service when the original Tay Bridge blew down. We have an impressive Seven arch viaduct in red brick over the Dighty Burn which used to take the line but now just takes a walking/cycle path.

I’m not suggesting we completely undo Beeching. There used to be a line across the southern Shore of the Tay between Perth and the Tay Bridge, north of the hills. It was apparently dog slow. I’m not sure we need to reinstate that. St. Andrews keeps bleating about the reinstatement of their branch line from Leuchars but the business case never looks worth it.

Suggestions for new/reinstated rail lines in Scotland people . . .

Artyhetty

Re;yesindyref2@1.59am.

So not only is Scotland too wee, too poor, too stupid, but added to that, too slow now. Looks like the negative transport stories will be all over the media this week, (to add to the negative stories on education) what with our shiny new bridge about to open. That would be the bridge that Labour, Tories, Libdems and even the Greens decided was not needed, wanted, nor worth it, and who was it even said it was a ‘vanity’ project? Absolute disgrace.

And Gordon Brown. What can you say, eh. Anybody got any quotes about him saying the whole idea of a new bridge was SNP bad? Actually a list of what was said by various britnats about this vanity project, (absolutely essential, in other words, infrastructure for Scotland and anyone travelling and trading with to and from Scotland).

Imagine saying that a major lifeline for your own country is a ‘vanity project’, or that it shouldn’t be built. Those people need to be named for us all to see imo.

Smallaxe

Bonus Link;
🙂

Brexit wake-up call: Surprise as Labour back permanent customs union access for the UK;
link to thenational.scot

Smallaxe

Forth Replacement bridge was a ‘Vanity Project’;
link to youtube.com
🙂

orri

One obvious way of speeding up rail journeys would be to cut down on the number of totally unnecessary stops and starts, such as those to allow passengers to get on and off.

Dorothy Devine

Smallaxe , about the boat thief – I do wish the SNP spokesman had not said a word merely shrugged. Sure as hell something will crawl from the undergrowth and belt them one.

Regarding slow Scotland – would someone like to itemise the benefits of ‘quick’?

P.S There is a neat article by our very own Rev Stu from December 2015 on the new bridge.

Dorothy Devine

I didn’t realise the independence ‘supporting’ greens were so anti the bridge,

link to deadlinenews.co.uk

Bet they’ll have mugshots at the opening though – along with all the ‘vanity project’ howler monkeys.

Richardinho

I do feel that an opportunity was missed with the past General Election. I said at the time that the SNP should fight it on the basis that a majority would give a mandate for independence. I feel that was the right moment to strike, but now a lot of momentum has been lost.

If there’s one thing that has been established it’s that referendums are the gift of the UK government, so why should we have to dance to their tune?

I think it’s time for a change in tactics.

Smallaxe

Wings over troubled snotters;
link to wingsoverscotland.com

Peter McCulloch

Yes, fake Murdoch news,just like when Trump claimed that record numbers of people turned out at his inaugurationn-story”.

Maybe Labour and Corbyn have learned the lesson and not published many photos of the crowd attending his rallies.

There’s also an interesting article in today’s courier about Corbyns meeting at St Bryce Kirk in Kirkcaldy, where he has promised.

to protect free bus passes, keep the triple lock on state pensions, protect the winter fuel allowance, “Labour will protect the welfare state from cradle to grave” he said.

There’s also to be £3billion more for public services in Scotland.

Legerwood

Smallaxe says:
28 August, 2017 at 8:16 am
LINKS;

Deaths soar as UK gov cuts Drug and Alcohol Support Funding;
link to thecanary.co
……………………

The Herald ran a similar story 2 weeks ago but in relation to Scotland and a cut in funding to the Alcohol and Drug Partnerships. The story was about an increase in alcohol related deaths.

Screaming headlines as you can imagine but when you looked at the figures the year on year alcohol related deaths had been rising since 2012 which was long before any funding cuts.

Then that was followed a few days later by a story about drug related deaths.

Expect they may rehash them and publish again to chime with this story from England.

Legerwood

QUEENSFERRY CROSSING

This is what Labour were saying about it in 2006 when it was all their idea of course

link to news.bbc.co.uk
And in February 2007
link to news.bbc.co.uk

Of course come May 2007 after the Holyrood elections Labour position had changed. Also the LibDems because one of them had been transport minister in the Labour-LibDem coalition if I remember correctly.

Peter McCulloch

I have a great deal of respect for Tommy Sheppard.
But he is wrong, we can’t wait four years for another Indy ref, there’s no guarantee that the SNP even with the support of the greens would have a majority at Holyrood in 2021.

Phil

Muscleguy says:
28 August, 2017 at 8:30 am
Suggestions for new/reinstated rail lines in Scotland people . . .

Looking for positive business cases: just how many of recently re-opened rail lines have failed to achieve their target? How many exceeded?

And in more general railway terms, how many lines are now not carrying their full potential passenger numbers, and why? I suspect that just like re-opening lines reaching for full potential is a matter of finding capital for line improvements. Where is that capital? Has any long term planning begun to get it in place?

colin alexander

Encouraging though it is to see so few turn up at Mr Corbyn’s tour, it gives no indication as to how many would put an x beside Labour on a ballot paper, especially across the working class areas that traditionally voted Labour and saw a significant return (from the SNP) to people voting Labour at the GE 2017 or total voter disengagement with politics. But that’s the past. Independists knew WM elections do nothing for Scotland whether you vote Labour or SNP.

The SNP are going to deliver an indyref, so I’m told. Well, they promised to in their manifesto, so independence should be the focus, not elections, or Mr Corbyn.

YES is for Labour voters too. It’s for anyone that believes the best option is independence.

If the SNP try to string voters along with devolution for another five years in 2021 and they haven’t delivered an indyref or something better in this parliamentary term, it makes no difference who is Labour’s leader, the SNP will be dead ducks.

The SNP sing their own praises about all the extra powers they won at the Smith Commission table: 28 times they mention devolved powers (2016 manifesto). Three times the word “independence” is used.

Though, as they mainly stand for WM devolution, that makes sense.

The SNP also said: “We will undertake new work, starting this summer (2016), with the aim of persuading a clear majority of people in Scotland that independence is the best future for our country.”

Is that why the SNP at the 2017 GE ran with the campaign slogan:
“Keep Scotland Strong at Westminster”?

The SNP might argue that their focus on begging the UK Govt to get a good Brexit deal is a way of persuading people indy is the best option.

I disagree.

So called “Hard Brexit” would mean Scotland is also out of the EU AND European Single Market, so of course the UK Govt would say: if leaving the EU & Single Market is a disaster, why would Scots vote to leave the UK Single Market too ( a single market with 3x the economic worth to Scotland than the EU was) with no guarantee that indy Scotland would be able to re-join the EU with favourable terms and quick entry. They would argue it would lead to Scotland’s political and economic isolation.

I’m just pointing out the Unionists’ obvious argument, not arguing in favour of the UK or full EU membership.

(My view is the SNP should have tried to win indy while we remain in the EU, then allow Scots a vote on EU / EFTA etc as part of post-indy elections or referendum questions).

SNP strategies / policies have been consistently flawed. Poor choices of SNP candidates hasn’t helped either. Election results prove that.

If the SNP are our only hope of indy, then they need to learn from their mistakes and get new strategies.

It’s clear Nicola Sturgeon for all her good abilities, is not a political strategist, but a leader does not have to be good at everything. She could have people close to her who have these skills: Ideas people. Strategists. People willing to take the political initiative, not just react to what the UK Govt does.

I’m sure there are politically imaginative people, ideas people, strategists within the SNP, but it’s clear they are not the people whose ideas have been listened too since 2014. The people at the top must take the blame for that.

The inspirational and exciting Indy campaign that fired up public involvement has, since then, been equalled by campaigns that have gone as far in the opposite direction.

The SNP have plumbed the depths in lacking ideas, lacking a strategy, lacking passion and lacking commitment in the campaign for independence.

If replacing the SNP as the leaders of the indy movement is not an option at this stage, then either the SNP need to make radical changes or we should prepare ourselves for another Lib/Lab Scottish Govt in 2021 and all the most important EU “devolved” powers being controlled by WM.

Dave McEwan Hill

Just as a matter of interest and some satisfaction. Very good Sunday Herald yesterday. Has it wakened up again?

Proud Cybernat

The view from Craggy Island…

link to imgur.com

Tinto Chiel

Anent the Queensferry Crossing: wouldn’t it be nice to see the bridge festooned with saltires and EU flags for the ceremony?

But I sense the stench of the tomb: and Lo! Zombie Brown slouches towards Queensferry to be born……

And Winston Smith produces another article showing BLiS_______d have always supported the QC project.

Pitchfork

Corbyn DIDN’T say Scotland was a nation of England. He said “…Nations, and regions of England “.

His visit was patronising, inept and dishonest on many issues. There are many things to be angry over.

But this imagined

Pitchfork

Corbyn DIDN’T say Scotland was a nation of England. He said “…Nations, and regions of England “.

His visit was patronising, inept and dishonest on many issues. But let’s not take offense over things he didn’t say.

Robert Kerr

I have stated before that I am not a member of the SNP although I vote for them as the best chance for independence.

I am, however, a supporter of the European Project and have worked in The Netherlands, France and Italy and also have undertaken shorter work visits to Norway, Austria and Spain. I have worked with Europeans from Germany, Poland, Serbia and Romania.

I am proud of my European Citizenship and do not wish to lose it.

If there is no timeous referendum and due to the inactions of the SNP I do lose my Eurocitz status then I shall be very angry!

Please take note Nicola!

heedtracker

Big Phil says:
27 August, 2017 at 11:37 pm
We are all being fecked with our clothes on , these barstewards are out tae crush us.
@ Heedtracker.. you the one on the bike on youtube ??? lol

Haha!

It was, nt. Wish it was though.

heedtracker

Tinto Chiel says:
28 August, 2017 at 10:33 am
Anent the Queensferry Crossing: wouldn’t it be nice to see the bridge festooned with saltires and EU flags for the ceremony?

If you can be arsed, this morning’s BBC r4 vote tory Today show has a very UKOK beeb gimp thing on the new bridge. Classic tory beeb propaganda, void of any Scots voice, Scotland mentioned once, no SNP mention, no Scots gov mention, royals grovelling, English opinion, the whole UK lot, just after 6.30.

Its a British bridge but its fun to see massed ranks of beeb gimps struggle with it all.

Stoker

That photo of the crowd looks like 2 coach loads worth, and the odd local straggler or three curios to see what’s going on.

Would have been great if someone caught them all getting back on the coaches and following Jezza’s coach straight back down south.

Calum McKay

Corbyn will split the Labour Party.

He could not get elected when facing Mrs May a cowardly paper tiger. When the new tory leader emerges the press will hail her or him as the second Churchill, the nation’s brexit enforcer and Corbyn eliminator, etc, etc.

Labour will be back to ferrets in a sack.

It need not be like this for Scotland, the uk politcal cycle sees the tories in power for two thirds of the time or labour imitations of the tories for the remaining third implementing tory policies including waging wars.

heedtracker

The SNP are going to deliver an indyref, so I’m told. Well, they promised to in their manifesto, so independence should be the focus, not elections, or Mr Corbyn.”

No Colin A. You know full well by now, SNP manifesto explicitly states, Scotland has the RIGHT to hold referenda, if something like Brexit happens.

Considering you cut n pasted the manifesto section on referenda in the SNP manifesto, why are you ignoring your own cut n pasting?

So dull you are, Colin.

McDuff

Colin Alexander 10am.

Broadly agree with you post. I might add it would have been nice if the SNP had turned up for the last GE as it was all about independence.

Tinto Chiel

Heedtracker: “If you can be arsed, this morning’s BBC r4 vote tory Today show has a very UKOK beeb gimp thing on the new bridge. Classic tory beeb propaganda, void of any Scots voice, Scotland mentioned once, no SNP mention, no Scots gov mention, royals grovelling, English opinion, the whole UK lot, just after 6.30.”

That’ll be the daily Effacing Scotland feature, I think. It can be replaced by the Monstering Scotland one, depending on editorial requirements.

Robert Peffers

@Robert Louis says: 28 August, 2017 at 7:19 am:

“I have to say, I agree with others above, that Tommy Shepherd is totally out of sync with the support. The SNP will be finished, if they sit back and let brexit happen.”

Oh! Here we go again today with, “It’s all the fault of that Tommy Shepherd and the SNP, by the anti-SNP moaners”. These moaners are worse than the actual Brexiteers. At least the Brexiteers are not pretending to be indy supporters.

In your whole diatribe there is only one item of truth and it is NOT your repeated claims that, Brexit is real“.

First of all Brexit is totally impossible for Britain, (per se), cannot be exited from the European Union for Britain, (per se), is not a member of the European union.

The Republic of Ireland is a member state and The Isle of Man, plus the two other Crown Protectorates, are only associate members of the European Union and Westminster only governs the United Kingdom part of Britain so cannot take, “Britain”, out of the European union.

Secondly your claim that Brexit is real is total balderdash and your claim, if it indicates anything, only indicates you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about.

The Westminster controlled media, (best described as the Westminster Propaganda machine), keeps chuntering on about the many, many things they want their imagined, “BREXIT”, to include but never mention the little fact that the present situation, as correctly reported this very morning but not given much oxygen by the propaganda machine is that, “Formal ‘BREXIT’, (that’s United Kingdom Exit), talks are due to resume in Brussels, later, with, ‘BRITISH’. (that’s United Kingdom), negotiators urging the European Union to show, ‘flexibility and imagination’.

BREXIT, (that’s UK), Secretary David Davis wants to broaden discussions to include trade.

But the EU says there has to be progress on the issues of citizens’ rights the Irish Border and the, ‘Divorce Bill’ before talks can widen.

Both sides have said “there is no real prospect of a breakthrough in this third round of talks.

(Bolding is mine.).

The truth is that there is absolutely no prospect that the idiotic claims of the Brexiteers will ever be acceptable to the European parliament and thus the only deal on offer is the hardest of hard attempts at withdrawal of the Westminster government from the treaty they signed up to with the European Union – i.e. they leave the EU and thus break the terms of the treaty they signed up to when they joined up.

However, there are things that are never mentioned and they are factually and legally clear – but never mentioned as such by the propaganda machine.

The legal title of the Westminster Government is, “Her Majesty’s Government of HER United KINGDOM”.

The United Kingdom is the result of, “The Treaty of Union”, of 1706/7, and is a treaty that united two, equally sovereign, independent kingdoms that had their crowns on the same person’s head.

It is NOT legally a union of four countries and today it does not even actually run as an actual union of any kind.

It functions as the de facto parliament of the country of England, even although there is no actual, elected as such, parliament of England.

Yet Westminster runs EVEL, (English Votes for English Laws), but there is actually no such thing as an English only vote. There is no one elected as a parliament of England MP, (they are all elected to Westminster as members of HER MAJESTY’S Government).

Yet Westminster has set up three devolved parliaments in the three non-England countries of the United Kingdom, (Not united Country), while operating as the, not elected as such, de facto parliament of the country of England.

So these, so called, BREXITEERS are nothing more that confidence tricksters who imagine they can also pull the wool over the other 27 member states of the EU but these 27 other member states are having none of it. All the above only explains that your claim, “BREXIT is Real”, is balderdash.

When push comes to shove all the EU parliament needs to do is affirm that the member state that is threatening to leave is not a single country but is, as it describes itself, a BIPARTITE UNITED KINGDOM, and one part of that United Kingdom has democratically voted to remain as a member of the EU and that legally the people of Scotland are sovereign and thus the sovereign will of the people of Scotland is to remain an EU member state.

If the Kingdom of England, all three countries of it, still wants to walk away from Europe without any deal whatsoever, (and probably not paying the, “Divorce Bill”), then no one can stop them. They can, though, allow the Country/Kingdom of Scotland to continue as the legacy member state with appropriate renegotiation of the terms to suit the changed circumstances.

Ergo, if they do not leave they do not require to re-join and the EU needs not rewrite much of its laws and regulations due to a United Kingdom exit. In effect the EU can rule that the UK ceased to exist when Westminster began the devolved parliaments while illegally setting England up as the de facto parliament of England.

Do you honestly imagine that the members of the European Parliament are idiots or fools?

I’d warrant they see the real facts a damned site clearer that your average Briton as they have not been sopping up the Westminster brain washing all their lives.

Proud Cybernat

“…would have been nice if the SNP had turned up for the last GE as it was all about independence.”

Actually, it was all about the British Nationalist parties telling Scots they won’t be allowing them a vote on their constitutional future.

Capella

I thought in my earlier comment, which Stu has quite rightly removed, that this was an evening meeting and that everyone must have been watching TV so didn’t turn up.

But a daytime “rally” at Leith Links with fewer than 100 attending and most of them bussed in for ten minutes according to an eye witness is pure dead embarrassing.
link to twitlonger.com

Obviously spin and lies isn’t working for the Unionists any longer. Which is good news for those of an independent mind.

Dan Huil

I wonder how many in the “crowd” were bussed in or were already part of the latest britnat messiah’s entourage?

Scott

Sorry O/T but if this was not serious I would have a good laugh.

According to a letter in the P&J the UK would be in surplus if it was not for mismanagement of the economy by the SNP,also we should also be grateful to fellow Britons for £1750 for each of us per annum.

I don’t know how to do links so all you computer buffs can find this on the letter page yourselves.

Poor old Scotland we really are a basket case to some of these people.

Brian

Three perfect paragraphs of spin.

Meg merrilees

Heedtracker/Tinto chiel

I heard the British discussing The Queensferry Crossing this morning.Apparently it’s anew bridge due to open this week.
I think it’s a quiz to try and guess where it is?

They interviewed two english sounding people – granted one of them is the chief Engineer and a female, (East European sounding),
so no clue there.

It seems that someone called Nicola Sturgeon will ‘switch the lights on’ on Wednesday on this new bridge, the tallest in Britian,
Doesn’t she have something to do with Scotland, maybe it’s in Scotland?

Then thousands of people are being allowed to walk over the bridge for a couple of days before The Queen finally opens it
still not sure where it is? ..final clue coming up

Tape played of BBC report of Bessie opening the Forth Road Bridge 53 years ago and a mention of the iconic Rail Bridge.
Answer: It’s somewhere in Scotland where there are already two other bridges. Why do they need another one/

Amazed they even mentioned Nicola on the radio. They don’t mention her AT ALL in their written article on the bridge which is now tucked away on their Edinburgh page.

Come on Donalda – what’s happened to your pledge to ensure there’s no impartiality!

Flower of Scotland

Tommy Shepherd,s opinions are his own and not the SNPs.

Effijy

You can clearly see that from around 60 people
Visible in the picture, that 20 or so are standing
Off the main group, not wanting to be a part of it.

So can we agree that the Leader of the Westminster
Labour Party on a sunny weekend in Scotland’s
Capatal City, was able to drum up around 40
Labour supporter,s some of whom travelled up
From England.

I watched an under 10’s football match in the rain that
Same day and we hasd 60 people watching.

Maybe if Jeremy had brought a ball with him, he could
Have got more of s crowd, but I suppose Ed is focus
is on Ballroom Dancing these days?

Cuilean

It’d be interesting to know how many FOI requests BBC SCotland make in Scotland compared to similar FOI requests in England/Wales/Northern Ireland.

I rather suspect BBC Scotland’s FOI requests will be triple or quadruple their BBC counterparts’ FOI requests in England/Wales/Northern Ireland.

I read this on twitter’s @itrustinsnp regarding Corbyn’s orchestrated Leith Links rally numbers:

“This was comment from a lass who was in area of Leith Links when photo of Corbyn & so called public crowd was there…sounds like it was just like May’s set up photoshoot, members and activists of the party bussed in to look like members of public.

“Omg. I walked past this going to see grandson at football, we went past and about 20 folk at a stall. During the match we saw folk walking from a coach on links, heading to stall…..about 50 folk. I joked about it being Jeremy Corbyn. We heard a little cheer ….ten minutes later the ‘crowd’ all headed back to their transport . If I’d known it was him I’d have taken photos. Damn….pathetic rally like!”

British nationalist parties really must think, up here, our heads button up the back!

Flower of Scotland

Richardinho at 9.06am

We already have a mandate for another referendum.

colin alexander

@Robert Peffers

I’m broadly in agreement with your post re: Scotland and the EU.

But you need to tell your SNP Scottish Govt that too, cos they’re no listening.

Since March 2017 the line from the FM is a Single Market – non-EU membership – compromise position being offered to the UK Govt, with no indyref if that deal is done.

That flies in the face of Scottish sovereignty and democratic and sovereign right of the people of Scotland voting to remain in the EU by 66% approx of those who voted.

EU, not single market compromises. The People are sovereign, not the FM. As the UK have no right to ignore that referendum result, neither does the FM. She has no mandate to negotiate anything less than FULL EU membership for Scotland. But she is doing it anyway.

Brian Powell

It’s perfectly clear and simple: Corbyn wants Scotland to be run by Westminster so that the Tories can easily decide policies for the law, NHS, Water, Education as they are in control of Westminster the majority of the time.

Gillz

Ha ha – what a turnout!! I suppose he’ll be expecting a Glastonbury welcome at the Glasgow Rock Festival – I hope they give him pelters 🙂

colin alexander

@Robert Peffers

“Sturgeon offers to shelve independence vote in return for soft Brexit”

Where’s the respect for the sovereignty of the Scottish people in that?

Here’s the proof: link to archive.is

Jack Murphy

ClanDonald said at 12:08 am this morning:

“John Boothman “left” his job at BBC after being caught bullying Margo McDonald’s daughter.

Oddly the BBC failed to cover the story.”

Thanks for reminding Scotland just exactly what the BBC in Scotland is like.
Here’s an Archived link to the Record [Scotland’s Champion].

“…..The development came after it emerged Boothman had an official grievance upheld against him after he was taped making a series of offensive remarks about camerawoman Zoe MacDonald……..”

link to archive.is

ronnie anderson

The sunday times reinventing Frank Carson’s catch phrase [ its the way we tell em ] . I’ve seen mair people at a whelk tall in the barras on a pissing day .

liz

I didn’t think I could detest Corbyn more but Jesus – 3rd world cities!

When SLAB were in charge Glasgow had the poorest regions in the UK, now it’s northern England with the poorest areas.

I do believe the north has Labour MPs.

link to theguardian.com

Stoker

A wee birdie tells me that Slabber failure James Kelly was on GMS this morning and apparently, wait for it, he wants funding to help “fight anti-sectarianism.” 😀

crazycat

@ liz

Archived version of your Guardian link:

link to archive.is

Breeks

Robert Peffers says at 11:04

…”When push comes to shove all the EU parliament needs to do is affirm that the member state that is threatening to leave is not a single country but is, as it describes itself, a BIPARTITE UNITED KINGDOM, and one part of that United Kingdom has democratically voted to remain as a member of the EU and that legally the people of Scotland are sovereign and thus the sovereign will of the people of Scotland is to remain an EU member state….”

But Robert, what you’re suggesting is the EU arbitrarily recognises Scotland’s Sovereignty, which sounds great, except that currently our own Scottish Government doesn’t even recognise Scotland’s sovereignty, since it has steadfastly refused to recognise Scotland’s Remain majority in 2016 as a constitutionally sovereign edict from the people which has to be respected. Europe will not recognise Scotland’s sovereignty unless formally asked to by Scotland, because without that instigation, it has no mandate to interfere with internal UK politics.

Don’t misunderstand, IF Scotland did make the issue a constitutional matter of sovereignty, then I firmly believe Europe indeed move quickly to recognise Scotland. And if Europe recognised Scotland, then all the countries who engage with the EU would recognise Scotland too. Their “Trade Deals” would see it happen by default. But that’s the crux of the argument. When, if ever, does the SNP plan to light the touch paper on the issue of sovereignty?

For as long as Westminster is recognised as the sovereign seat of UK government, then Scotland is a perpetual state of peril and denied the benefit of a sovereign veto on Westminster’s madness; whether that’s Brexit, or going to war with Spain over Gibraltar. Until we stop respecting Westminster’s faux Parliamentary sovereignty, no other country is going to stop respecting it either. It all comes down to us.

If Scotland wants the powers that are part and parcel sovereignty, and if we want foreign governments to formally recognise Scottish sovereignty, then our “devolved assembly” at Holyrood has to grow into its shoes as Scotland’s sovereign government. We MUST start demanding recognition of Scotland’s sovereignty, and that means recognising Scotland’s choice to remain in the EU.

The subjugation of Scotland’s sovereign Remain vote in 2016 has to be THE watershed event. There isn’t enough time to formulate a different constitutional stand off and play for a better position, and even where there was enough time, you would struggle to come up with a more practical and definitive keynote issue than Scotland being Brexited against its democratically expressed sovereign will.

Europe has been waiting since day one of Brexit for Scotland to present the EU with some kind, any kind, of a sovereign interface which is competent in law, and robust enough to be making binding deals and agreements.

You mention when Push comes to Shove, but I believe we are already there, and have been here for months. This is Zero hour…. Or at least the SNP’s Autumn Conference is.

Legerwood

More on the ‘slow train’ story that the Herald has closed to comments. This one from the Guardian which at least mentions that trains have to stop at stations thus slowing journey times

link to archive.is

Craig P

Yesindyref2 – the press association cant even get the slowest rail journey in Scotland ‘as the crow flies’ right… which is surely Wemyss Bay to Largs…

Phronesis

link to socialeurope.eu
More bad news about Brexit that might have been foreseen if our stellar political class of UKOK had a clue and ability to forward plan.
The UK will be a vassal state connected to the EU like Norway -without the social cohesion wealth or oil of Norway ( because the other vassal state Scotland had its oil wealth mismanaged).

Indyref2 end of 2019/early 2020 – thats plenty of time to organise and galvanise the grassroots independence movement.

Turnip_ghost

“He is our elected leader after all”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Didn’t stop you guys the first time!

Peter McCulloch

I wonder how many of those on the left such as Cat Boyd who believe voting for a Corbyn Labour party will achieve Scottish independence.

Actually realise that neither Labour in Scotland nor Corbyn, if he were to lose the next general election, wouldn’t be unhappy at having reduced the number of SNP Westminster seats and saw Scotland continuing to be governed by the Tories at Westminster.

This is what in essence I believe Corbyn’s rallies are all about here in Scotland, he doesn’t really care about our country, he is out to destroy the SNP and put an end to the case for Scottish independence.

Andy-B

I really hope those crowds, and I’m using the word crowds, loosely, were indicative of Corbyn’s misplaced jaunt north of the border.

Staying on Corbyn, I see it only took him over a year to realise that a hard Brexit will be a disaster for the economy.

His party is still intent on renewing Trident, Corbyn is of course fleeting, Scottish independence will be forever.

Robert Kerr

The man from C and A reads Severin Carrell in the Guradian in January and believes!

Please keep up at the back boy!

colin alexander

@ Breeks

Regarding your response to Robert Peffers:
28 August, 2017 at 12:09 pm
Robert Peffers says at 11:04

“When push comes to shove…”

Spot on. I totally agree. I hope others will think more about this too, especially those in the SNP and Scot Govt.

Liz g

Andy-B @ 12.44
Took him decades to work out he should try to be Prime Minister!
I am still wondering if he thinks it’s just a retirement plan…
Otherwise !!!! whit wiz he watin fur?

The Proctor Lewis

Any discussion about Corbyn’s labour party chances should take cognizance of the fact that in 2017 Labour under Corbyn lost nearly 400 councillors and control of Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire county council.

Being the rebel and waving a clenched fist was ok when he was an adolescent, but he is an old man, where is his gravitas, his statesmanship, his political aims, all I see is tokenism and wishful thinking.

He really is a backbencher, a substitute.

But I do like him. Good to be in the trenches with, but bloody fatal if he was the leader sending us over the top.

Andy-B

O/T apologies.

Forgot to add, are there any photos of the Dunfermilne indy rally? The media appears to have completely blanked the rally unsurprisingly.

Jockanese Wind Talker

I suspect that if you want to know the answer @Cuilean says at 11:31 am

“It’d be interesting to know how many FOI requests BBC SCotland make in Scotland compared to similar FOI requests in England/Wales/Northern Ireland.”

You’re going to have to submit your own FOI to each of the respective administrations.

An FOI to the BBC will just get you the standard “We don’t have to tell you, Charter and all that you see.” that they use to avoid answering awkward questions.

I suspect the answer would be heavily weighted in favour or FOIs submitted to Holyrood though.

Still it passes as “investigative journalism” also known as “EssEnnPeeBaad” at the State Broadcaster.

Abulhaq

Corbyn is a BritNat. The Sunday Times plainly recognises a fellow traveller. Neither has much relevance to modern Scotland. Both represent the tedious politico-cultural rut our nation must escape.

Andy-B

Liz-G

On Corbyn, I read somewhere that Corbyn’s run for Labour leader was a dare by his close Labour chums. Apparently his friends in Labour had all ran for leader and failed, and now it was his turn.

Sarah

@Breeks 12.09

Might a petition to Scottish Government help to make a difference? Using your words and sent round all Yes groups, National Registry etc etc so there are tens of thousand signatures.

Petition to be delivered by a march, perhaps – needn’t be 500 miles!

Petra

@ joemcg says at 10:35 pm …. ”Totally agree with Rock and some other posters. A golden opportunity was lost in the immediate aftermath of the EU referendum. God knows why Nicola and the party dragged their heels and didn’t strike while the iron was hot. Fannied about and we lost the greatest chance since 1707. Extremely annoying and maybe unrecoverable.”

Why on earth would Nicola Sturgeon have called for a Referendum at that time Joe? How does that make sense?

55% of Sovereign Scots had voted to remain part of the Union less than two years beforehand.

62% of Scots who actually voted, voted to remain in the EU but how many of them voted to remain in the EU as part of the Union, NOT an Independent Scotland? That was the question that they responded to after all. More than anything how many of them were actually Independence supporters?

38% of Scots voted to leave the EU.

With an overall turnout of 67.2% it’s clear that 33% of Scots didn’t bother to vote at all. How will they vote in a future Independence Referendum?

The bottom line is that Nicola Sturgeon would have been taking a MASSIVE gamble with our future if she had called for a referendum at that time, which could have seen us, if we’d lost, out of action for decades to come, Nicola Sturgeon standing down as FM and maybe even dissipation of the SNP or Holyrood itself. There would also have been ”Now is not the time” on her request to hold a referendum, and I’m sure that MANY people would have agreed with that, plus Nicola Sturgeon having to convince people with stats that Independence was favourable for Scotland along with stats showing that remaining in the EU was favourable also. How would the MSM have dealt with that one? Given her the time of day? I think not.

Nicola Sturgeon is the FM of Scotland. That means that she has to consider the views of ALL Sovereign Scots: Yes and No supporters, Remainers and Brexiteers and, for example, EU nationals.

We all know that she and her party want Independence but that’s not going to happen until more than 50% of Scots want it too. Some say that 50% of Scots have already voted for the SNP but that’s not to say that they wanted Independence. Some of that 50% are more focused on the ‘freebies’ that the SNP have to offer.

In other words she is trying to steer us through stormy waters whilst being bombarded by many enemies, including MANY who reside in Scotland. It’s also important to point out, imo, that as soon as she requested another Independence Referendum (13/03/2017) she was thrown a curve ball by May calling for a General Election (18/04/2017) …. 5 weeks later.

May stated that she had come to this decision whilst on a walking holiday in Wales (11 -16th April) however she slipped up on the One Show (1:38 mins in) …. ”when we were going through the process of triggering Article 50 (29/03/17) it just became clear that other parties were looking ahead to disrupt negotiations and I just felt it was important to have an Election to get a clear mandate..” That sounds to me as though she had made up her mind following Nicola Sturgeon’s request (2 weeks later) to try and scupper it by holding her Election. The one that she repeatedly said that she wouldn’t have. That Election was a General Election, not a Referendum, hence many people who want Independence voting for Corbyn in an attempt to quash the Tories.

link to youtube.com

IMO, Nicola Sturgeon is doing as she said she would do that is waiting for the Brexit ‘deal’ to become clear. As an example through her waiting we can already see that many EU nationals in Scotland will vote for Independence now. The next few months of Brexit clusterfock should see our support rise to an even greater extent.

She was interviewed on television last night about Labour now deciding that they wanted to remain in the single market / Customs Union for a transitional period. She said ”forget about the transitional period. Staying in the SM / CU …. PERIOD.”

And just to say that it’s a shame to see so many posters being influenced by Unionists on here. Everytime that they, (so-called Independence supporters) complain about Nicola Sturgeon / the SNP they are losing us support. She is working her butt off for us. The least that we can do is champion her in public, that is IF you actually want Independence at all.

……………………………..

PS .. Just reading through the latest posts and see the comment ”The subjugation of Scotland’s sovereign Remain vote in 2016 has to be THE watershed event.”

As already pointed out 38% of SOVEREIGN Scots voted to leave the EU, 33% of SOVEREIGN Scots didn’t vote in the EU Referendum and we have no idea of how many of the 62% of SOVEREIGN Scots who voted to Remain want Independence at all. Stop trying to muddy the waters. More so turn everyone against Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP: The ONLY party capable of getting us Independence. Not that I need to point that out to you, as you know that full well. Don’t you?

Davy

FIT DEE MEEN ?? are you saying Jeremy Corbyn has been up in Scotland ????? fit why did nabody tell me. The very least somebody should have put it on labourhame, instead I have to find it out on Wings.

Its a bloody disgrace.

Speaking of bloody disgraces, I hope someone recorded the James Kelly show this morning on GMS. The lady presenter must have thought all her Christmases had came at once. James Kelly was outstandingly bad, he brought new meaning to the saying “thick as a plank”.

But give him his due no matter what question he was asked, he was going to answer whatever question he felt like answering.
Aye Forest Gump has finally got a playmate.

liz

@crazycat – thanks I was so angry I forgot to use archive.

Legerwood

Petra @ 1.15

Very well said. Whole heartedly agree with you.

Proud Cybernat

What Petra said 1:15pm.

Doubters find yourselves a big mirror and gi’ yerselves a right good talkin’ to.

“We’re on our way from misery to happiness today – uhuh, uhuh!”

ronnie anderson

@ James Barr Gardner 2.18am YOU CANAE COUNT ma Wings Flag + Estelada attached wiz oan the webbed fencing round the stage & we Anne Jenkings fae Dundee wiz at the stage front tae , lots of Wingers & Lurkers , everybody I spoke to expressed concern for the Rev .

Many Thanks ( ah could hiv killed him for no letting me know sooner ) Jock Scot for returning ma wee fruit knife from the last event AUWB ( ave hud it fur 20+ years ) I thought I had seen the last of it .

Robert Peffers

@Richardinho says: 28 August, 2017 at 9:06 am:

“I do feel that an opportunity was missed with the past General Election. I said at the time that the SNP should fight it on the basis that a majority would give a mandate for independence.”

Oh! Dear! It’s all the SNP’s fault again then is it, Richardinho?

“If there’s one thing that has been established it’s that referendums are the gift of the UK government, so why should we have to dance to their tune?”

Balderdash! What is your evidence for that absolutely incorrect statement, Richardinho?

No one can prevent the Scottish Government, or anyone else for that matter, from holding a referendum on anything they please.

You quite obviously have no idea of what you are pontificating about but you choose to take the YoonYoonist propaganda at its face value.

The definition of a referendum is, “a general vote by the electorate on a single political question that has been referred to them for a direct decision.”

In fact single political referendums are used by many, many organisations. A local Community Council might refer a single political question on whether they should plant Winter Flowering Pansies in the Community Council Flower Tubs or store the tubs away over Winter.

The Daily Liar might refer a single political question to the electorate that the Offensive Behaviour at Football Games legislature be rescinded.

Westminster has no legal powers to prevent them doing so. All Westminster can do, and has done, is announce that they will or will not respect the democratic will of the electorate on any specific political issue.

Any government that plays such dangerous political games risks the wrath of a general public majority turning against that government.

I’ll quote you just such a typical newspaper style referendum that has periodically raised its very ugly head during my lifetime.

In times of either no big news story, or of some particularly heinous crime, some newspaper editor or another will beggar the question of their readership, “Should Capital Punishment be reinstated”, and invariably the readership votes to reinstate hanging. Yet no Government to date has taken the bait and reintroduced hanging. However, this may well have seen some voters change how they voted at the next election.

Liam

I don’t often draw political stuff but I thought this might be an appropriate place to post this:

link to goshwowcomics.wordpress.com

gordoz

Well we’ve had the imperial masters visit in the past; now if you believe Boothman, this was our visit from Lord Vadar 🙂

crazycat

@ liz at 1.26

You’re welcome.

Chick McGregor

Oh Jeremy Corbyn!
Yer guff, we’re no absorbin’!

Robert Peffers

@McDuff says: 28 August, 2017 at 10:58 am:

” … I might add it would have been nice if the SNP had turned up for the last GE as it was all about independence.”

Pish! McDuff, pure unadulterated pish.

Just read again what you posted but post the words NOT the initials.

“I might add it would have been nice if the SNP had turned up for the last GENERAL EELECTION , as it was all about independence.”

Here is the definition of what a GENERAL EELECTION , actually is:-

“A general election is an election in which all or most members of a given political body are chosen. These are usually held for a nation’s primary legislative body, as distinguished from by-elections and local elections.

ClanDonald

@ Jack Murphy

Thanks for that, I can’t use the archive due to my child safety settings, apparently it lets over 18 stuff through.

Dr Jim

Yes we have no bananas says Jeremy:

I’m quite surprised by the amount of people NOT in the SNP who complain about the SNP not doing what those people want and they damn well want the SNP to do it now or they’ll, well they’ll what?

Well they’ll flood the internet and flog their crap to anyone who’s daft enough to fall for it whether Kezia pays them to or not

And they’re an amazing bunch of people too, they claim lifelong loyalty and membership of the party but will drop them like a ton of bricks because according to their new found wisdom the SNP have just become rubbish in numerous ways like, money grabbers,permanent devolutionists, secret Unionists, comfy Westminsterers and so on

On occasion I’ve asked these people to show me their membership ID and funnily enough they never seem to have it on them for one excuse or another, now me,I carry mine in my wallet proudly at all times because I certainly couldn’t memorise my number

A couple of words to young people about Mr Corbyn “Are you Feckin deaf” The man wants exactly the same thing as the Tories but just doesn’t want to say it because he knows you wont vote for him if you click on to the truth so he says stupid mind numbingly mental things like “I want a Brexit that’ll preserve jobs” well that’s code for thousands of jobs are about to be lost and I’ll capitalise on the Tories failure to keep those jobs, instead of telling the truth and fighting to keep us from getting into that position in the first place

Jeremy Corbyn is a complete and total fraud who only cares about votes for power, and not the power to vote or we wouldn’t be in this position supported by wee nobody non entities in Scotland like Cat Boyd (who the hell is she anyway) who only want to ride on the coat tails of anybody that’ll get her Ass noticed

Wake up young folk Independence is the only way, and the only way to get it is to stop bickering like the Unionists want you to do and support and vote SNP
then you’ll have a country of your own where your vote actually counts as opposed to voting for Inglish political parties whos very existence is about stopping you doing just that

Wings over Scotland has Mixers Trolls and Bampots on it trying every day in every way to confuse the issue but many of us are real Yessers and you’ll have to sort that one out for yourselves but if you pay close attention they do trip themselves up quite often depending on their instructions from their high command (that’s Kezia BTW)

Is she smarter than you?

Gay Indy Boy

Corybn may be the new Messiah but he’s a Londoner that knows very little about Scotland.

Given he’s never had tartan briefs, he’d be better off sticking to prancing round Hyde Park in his Burberry boxers.

Capella

Petra 1.15 – excellent post. I hadn’t heard TM’s comment on The One Show about “other parties” disrupting negotiations being the trigger for the GE in May.

I do wish the critics of the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon would come up with something constructive instead of complaining about perceived failures in the past. We have more than enough opposition in the entire British Establishment and its many functionaries in Westminster and the media.

jfngw

BBC Scotland lunchtime news start with ‘A BBC investigation…’, this is revealed to be based mostly on FOI request, then scour round for some comments. I beginning to think that the newsroom in Scotland is a group sitting round a desk dreaming up what new FOI they should be requesting this week.

This of course is cheap journalism for the BBC but expensive for us tax payers who have to pay for the staff servicing these requests. Remember the BBC is VAT free unlike the major emergency services in Scotland. It’s about time large corp’s like the BBC pay the full cost of too many FOI requests.

colin alexander

@Robert Kerr

There are videos of Nicola Sturgeon offering the compromise deal.

Are you claiming they are all faked too?i

Either all it’s all a conspiracy of lies, fake videos of Angus Robertson and Nicola Sturgeon or it’s true: The SNP have treated the Scottish electorate the same as the UK Govt, by failing to respect the sovereign will of the people in Scotland, as Scotland democratically voted Remain.

So, how, if you accept that’s the decided will of the people, as the SNP does, then seek to negotiate that away cos the UK Govt won’t recognise it?

Basically, the SNP has hoisted the white flag on Scottish sovereignty.

As Breeks also explained, that referendum result was non-negotiable. A line in the sand, not to be crossed. The people of Scotland have decided to Remain in the EU.

As Robert Peffers eloquently explained, ultimate sovereignty lies with the people in Scotland, not with Queen Elizabeth or the Scottish Govt or FM.

The raison d’etre for the SNP is to stand up for Scottish sovereignty AND Scottish sovereignty when it is exercised via a democratic vote.

They are now doing the opposite of that. Not only is the SNP now not fighting for Scottish sovereignty, they are completely undermining it by acting as if the democratic decision of the people can be negotiated away by the FM.

galamcennalath

So Corbyn and Labour are edging closer to a ‘stay in the single market’ position on Brexit. Some reports suggest this means, permanently. The emergence of this position could be an indication that the Establish have finally concluded they need a soft Brexit outcome.

Any sane Tory (some did back Remain) should be pro single market. Some clearly are.

The UK Tory negotiating team seem to be asking for an unreasonable ‘cake and eat it’ deal with all the advantages of the single market, but taking none of the responsibilities. This is either stupidity, or some sort of preparation to jump to a very soft, or very hard, Brexit. The latter being what the hard right always wanted.

Any Tory government will appease big business and The City. Although the mad bad right fringe dream of deregulated business Utopia, most talk seems to be of retaining the single market.

So, where are we headed?

Another question perhaps worth considering is what matters most in London? Implementing Brexit or retaining the Union? Since a hard Brexit and a continuing Union seems incompatible, perhaps a soft landing is inevitable IF their Union really matters to them.

For all Corbyn’s crass ignorance about Scotland, he and his party may well have been tasked with saving the Union.

It will either be a crash and burn hard right Brexit, or sanity (and perhaps vested interests) will prevail are it will be soft.

TBH … I haven’t a clue what happens next, wish I did!

colin alexander

The SNP claim to believe the Claim of Right. The people are sovereign.
They believe Scotland voted to Remain in the EU.

Thus, there is nothing to negotiate. Scotland has already decided.

The SNP’s role was to defend that decision.

It did – at first. Since March 2017, they have capitulated and instead sought terms such as a Single Market compromise.

They had no democratic right to compromise. No democratic mandate.

If they have accepted the situation that the Scottish Govt isn’t the govt of Scotland at all, but a powerless Mickey Mouse sham, a fake govt, that merely administers WM Govt at Holyrood, fair enough.

That being the case, the FM still has no right to seek to undermine Scottish Sovereignty by negotiating terms for Scotland leaving the EU against the settled democratic and sovereign will of the people.

Breeks

Petra says at 1:15pm

“…As already pointed out 38% of SOVEREIGN Scots voted to leave the EU, 33% of SOVEREIGN Scots didn’t vote in the EU Referendum and we have no idea of how many of the 62% of SOVEREIGN Scots who voted to Remain want Independence at all. Stop trying to muddy the waters…”

Petra, we don’t have to know. It’s you who wants to muddy the issue. Keep it simple FFS!

In 2016 Scotland delivered a referendum majority for staying in the EU. If Scotland’s people are sovereign, then NOBODY, neither Theresa May nor Nicola Sturgeon, can overrule the sovereign will of the people. Defend the sovereignty or lose it, and if you lose it, then good luck in 2018, 2020, 2022, getting Westminster to respect any regional referendum as “sovereign” under a UK constitution.

In Brexit, Scotland holds an impregnable fortress in our properly expressed sovereign will to stay in Europe. We shall not be moved! We don’t have to physically move an inch in any direction to be standing with both feet on rock solid ground.

We currently have all our Sovereignty ideas back to front. We don’t need to establish our own sovereignty, but what we do need to do is begin challenging Westminster to clarify what sovereignty and mandate THEY have, what right THEY have, and what democratic authority THEY have, to subjugate Scotland’s sovereign will.

Westminster is the instigator of Brexit, and if Westminster wants to exit Europe where Scotland has chosen to remain, then let them, but let the onus for terminating the Union lie with Westminster. Give Westminster the ultimatum that proceeding with Brexit is the constitutional act of vandalism which breaches and thus terminates the Act of Union. Put all the onus for Independence onto May. If she wants to test her Parliamentary sovereignty to destruction, then let us simply make it easy for her.

We should be tilting this issue so that Brexit is not just the UK deciding to leave Europe, but England and Wales deciding to materially terminate the Act of Union which defines the UK. We are not the “separatists”, – they are. We are not forcing a constitutional crisis onto the UK, – they are. We are not driving a coach and horses through the Act of Union, – they are. If they really want to go ahead with their profoundly stupid Brexit, then go ahead, but be aware that as a direct consequence, Scotland shall consider the action to be a wilful, deliberate, and irremediable breach of the Union. Go ahead if you must, but you have been warned of the consequences.

The SNP should have the route towards the constitutional collapse of the Union lined with sign posts and warnings; Danger lies ahead! Slow down! This direction is one way only!

Why should the SNP repeatedly vex itself over having an adequate mandate to do nothing but stand still and stay where we already are??? Theresa May has NO democratic mandate, NO sovereign mandate, nor popular mandate to drag Scotland out of Europe. It is HER mandate which requires the merciless scrutiny!!!

Theresa May is the one who should be getting the constitutional education that every step she takes towards Brexit, which disregards the Scottish vote to Remain, violates the Treaties of Union, and pushes the Union closer to breaking point. How can Theresa May slag off the SNP when it is her own I’ll considered, reckless policy which is the driving force behind destruction of the Union?

Petra, you are looking in too many cracks in the pavement for enemies of the SNP. You’re no longer watching where you’re going.

Dan Huil

It’s going to be a hard brexit. Anything else and we can expect social disruption in England. If it comes to that it will certainly contribute to the disintegration of the so-called united kingdom – as long as Scotland stays above it all.

I believe, however, a hard brexit will be obvious well before Spring 2019. Indyref2 will happen before the next Holyrood election.

Petra

@ colin alexander says at 2:28pm ……..

”As Breeks also explained, that referendum result was non-negotiable. A line in the sand, not to be crossed. The people of Scotland have decided to Remain in the EU…… The SNP have treated the Scottish electorate the same as the UK Govt, by failing to respect the sovereign will of the people in Scotland, as Scotland democratically voted Remain.”

Here we go again. The tag team (and a few hangers-on) are in full flow on here today: As pointed out previously 38% of Sovereign Scots voted to leave the EU and 33% of Sovereign Scots didn’t vote at all. That = 71% of Sovereign Scots.

62% of those who actually voted, comprising 67% of the electorate, voted to Remain in the EU as part of the UNITED KINGDOM. How MANY of THEM support Independence?

Once again how MANY of them support Independence? How MANY Sovereign Scots support Independence? That’s the CRUX of the matter, the CRUX that the SNP are having to deal with and in doing so are NOT treating the Scottish Electorate the same as the UK Govt at all. I’ve never come across such a load of old tommy-rot. Grow up why don’t you. Better still it’s high time that you invested in a calculator and then toddle off and ask your bosses what tack you should take next. The same goes for your Unionist supporting pals on here.

Robert Peffers

@colin alexander says: 28 August, 2017 at 11:39 am:

“I’m broadly in agreement with your post re: Scotland and the EU.
But you need to tell your SNP Scottish Govt that too, cos they’re no listening.”

Why do you bother coming on Wings and making a fool of yourself, Colin? You really are wasting your time, not that I mind that, but you are also taking up valuable bandwidth with totally transparent arguments.

In the first place you do not seem to grasp the reality of what is happening and have swallowed whole the totally false propaganda that is the output of the Westminster unionists and their propaganda machine.

Yet I’ve no doubt you are reading, watching and listening to the same news items that I am but I can read the facts and reject the claptrap by quite simply careful reading, listening and viewing.

I already quoted you an example and how it should be analysed – yet it whooshed right over your head – as usual.

I’ll highlight the news item again and analyse it yet again.

I’ll have to type it all out for you as the item I’m reading is on the text service on Radio Scotland’s channel on the TV frequencies. I cannot thus just cut & paste it.

The heading reads:-

“Brexit talks to resume in Brussels.”

“Formal Brexit talks are due to resume in Brussels later, with British negotiators urging the EU to show, “flexibility and imagination”.

Brexit Secretary David Davis wants to broaden discussions to include trade.

But the EU says there has to be progress on the issues of citizens rights, the Irish border and the, “Divorce bill”, before talks can widen.

Both sides have said there is no real prospect of a breakthrough in this third round of talks.”

So lets just see what is actually being reported:-

“Formal Brexit talks are due to resume in Brussels later, with British negotiators urging the EU to show, “flexibility and imagination”.

This is basically just, “Look we both know this is bullshit, but give us a break or Theresa will not be pleased with us”.

“Brexit Secretary David Davis wants to broaden discussions to include trade”.

this means – “o.k. so you won’t budge on our previous points. So can we forget them for the time being and talk about possible free trade deals for the UK?

“But the EU says there has to be progress on the issues of citizens rights, the Irish border and the, “Divorce bill”, before talks can widen.”

This means – “No.”.

“Both sides have said there is no real prospect of a breakthrough in this third round of talks.”

This means, “There is still stalemate”, and the talks are going no where because the EU holds all the cards and the UK do not know what to do about it.

The basic story is that there is no way the EU is going to allow the UK to get any easy deals on free trade, open borders, freedom of travel between the EU and UK.

Nor will the EU allow the UK to walk away without paying for the problems they are costing the EU. Thing is the EU has no way to force the UK to pay for walking away from the EU and they will dig their toes in so as to have a big stick to whack the UK with.

Then, at the conclusion of the negotiations there will be the big, big surprise the UK seems not to see looming out of the dark. The initials UK tells the truth that the United Kingdom is exactly that – not a single unified country as Westminster thinks of itself – but legally it is two equally sovereign KINGDOMS and one of those kingdoms has voted to remain while the other, while flying false colours, regards itself as the country of England with three English dominions in tow.

Does Westminster imagine the EU doesn’t know the true setup and the actual legal set up of the Westminster Establishment?

The phrase Perfidious Albion has connotations throughout the World but no where more aware that in France & Germany.

Now, Colin, you may not be aware of the true history behind the French Revolution and the hands of the English so called Secret Service in that revolution. Not surprising you may not know for most of the general public don’t even know the parts played in the Treaty of union of the English Spy Master, Sir Robert Harley and the English undercover agent, Daniel Defoe and the double Agent William Paterson in forcing the Treaty of Union upon the Scots.

t42

Andy-B says:
“I see it only took him over a year to realise that a hard Brexit will be a disaster for the economy.”

Was tactical-he was pro brexit for the uk election, now he is anti brexit for scotland. About 30 people and a dog turned up at the circus booth to see the uncredible 2 faced man.

Proud Cybernat

@ Breeks,

Sovereign Scots will STILL need an indy referendum to – let’s just say – ratify the split from the UK.

You seem to be angling that Scotland can just walk away from the Union because we’re a sovereign people and it’s rUK that’s forcing us to leave. If we were to just walk away (because we have the sovereign right) then try telling that to buster-blood-vessel, hard-nosed, ultra core, dyed-in-the-wool, blue nosed Yoon. They’ll tell you in no uncertain terms to “Shove yer sovereignty up yer arse!”

They don’t give a flying shit about sovereignty. We MIGHT have a chance of keeping the lid on such numbnuts through a democratically won referendum.

“We’re a sovereign nation and we’re walking away from the UK” even if it may be technically possible simple isn’t realistic. Not unless you want a whole load of trouble. Which we don;t. Which is why we should be doing it via the referendum route – a means which even the numbnut yoons can understand.

Petra

”Petra, you are looking in too many cracks in the pavement for enemies of the SNP. You’re no longer watching where you’re going.”

Oh I know where I’m going alright without the help of people like you it would seem. You say ”Keep it simple, FFS.” What’s more simplistic than knowing that we require over 50% of Scots who want to remain in the EU additionally supporting Independence? And what you don’t seem to get Breeks (or more than likely do) is that Nicola Sturgeon will do her utmost to ensure that we’re not dragged out of the EU (EFTA?) at all by winning the next Independence Referendum based on the majority of Sovereign Scots demonstrating at the ballot box that they support her, want Scotland to be Independent, unlike people like yourself who come on here trying to confuse and create division: Turn readers against the only party that’s ever going to get us our Independence. The only party that’s ever going to get us our Independence is a ”simple” concept to get your head around too and that’s the one that I’m focusing on.

Petra

@ Proud Cybernat says at 3:12 pm … ”Breeks sovereign Scots will STILL need an indy referendum to – let’s just say – ratify the split from the UK.

You seem to be angling that Scotland can just walk away from the Union because we’re a sovereign people and it’s rUK that’s forcing us to leave. If we were to just walk away (because we have the sovereign right) then try telling that to buster-blood-vessel, hard-nosed, ultra core, dyed-in-the-wool, blue nosed Yoon. They’ll tell you in no uncertain terms to “Shove yer sovereignty up yer arse!”

They don’t give a flying shit about sovereignty. We MIGHT have a chance of keeping the lid on such numbnuts through a democratically won referendum.

“We’re a sovereign nation and we’re walking away from the UK” even if it may be technically possible simple isn’t realistic. Not unless you want a whole load of trouble. Which we don’t. Which is why we should be doing it via the referendum route – a means which even the numbnut yoons can understand.”

I’m pleased to see that you’ve kept it ‘simple’ PC. How MANY sovereign Scots exactly would respond to people like Breeks with “shove yer sovereignty up yer arse!” That’s what we’ve got to find out, the numbers, through an Independence Referendum not walking away with the potential of creating a Civil War. Thank God we’ve got Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP on our side, that’s all I can say.