Wings Over Scotland

Reminds me of the quote from, I think, “Soap” –

“Confused? You will be!”

An absolutely useless party, no opposition, no imagination and no consistency at all apart from being consistently piss poor.

Andrew Marr tortured Corbyn, Cable and Ummuna. He had a problem doing that with Ms Sturgeon.

She just moved some words round until she formed a sentence or something to get through the interview eh! 🙂

Here’s a funny thing though.

LESLEY LAIRD = SILLY LEADER Honest.

Watched Corbyn the prevaricator on the Marr ENC show and he was as clear as mud. He is in the wrong place at the wrong time. He is s fud.

It reminds me of one of those online waffle generators! OR the Billy Connoly line “the more you do the less the better”

Meantime Farage is locked on to a simple coarse message that appeals to base values. I have little doubt which message is cutting through in England. However it highlights that values are diverging in this disunited land and WHY we need to take a different path before the impact of Farage/Johnson delivers the nightmare “Americanisation” of our lives.

Meantime Scottish Labour, the LibDems and Tories will accept that World to protect their Union!!!
No matter how bad the future outlook Unionists are determined that we are Better Together.
It appears we are locked into a suicide pact cult.

I hate to say this but the Brexit Party is polling high in Scotland and looks to be easily beating the Greens. The best opposition case is to vote for the SNP

Brexit Tories = Tories Brexit

They are the same. Obnoxious.

Tory Gammon Colin Clark, Conservative and Unionist MP for Gordon, was threatening his Great British Prime Minister that he will not vote for her deal if he does not concur with it,

surprising to see such a confirmed Tory Gammon willing to defy his party.

I couldn’t believe that woman would be allowed out on her own to represent a political party.

Is she regarded as the second best Labour has in its North Accounting Unit.

I wondered if she was a spare from the Jeremy Kyle show production team.

Hope the Beeb sent home in a taxi as I don’t think she could decide on which bus to get on.

She and that Dick Leonard must have an IQ equal to Charlie Corolla’s shoe size.

It’s not as confusing as it seems.

1) Labour do not support a referendum that has Remain as an option.
2) They, themselves, don’t support no deal.
3) However they want a referendum on any deal.

Remember, Cameron didn’t support Leave. Labour are setting the scene for a no deal Brexit they can wash their hands off. Which means that whilst they might not support one they don’t seem to oppose it either.

Support for the Faragisti may well be due to the expat English element in the population.
Although some England born are sympathetic or even actively supportive of independence the majority are pro Union. Many English abroad do tend to the national chauvinism of the Daily Mail variety. The older the worse the tendency. Whether in North Wales, Perthshire, Chiantishire or the Costa del Sol the ‘type’ will out.
In addition to young immigrants to boost the declining population or encouraging members of the Scottish diaspora to return, Scots really do need to start having babies.

Labour and the Tories have enabled the Brexit Party to rise to prominence among leave voters.

Laird is, like Corbyn, spinning truth and mixed messages in order to appease both leave and remain voters. This is obviously not a winning strategy but for some reason they are continuing to adopt this strategy even though the polls show it is clearly not connecting or translating into votes.

People on this site will however know that this is what Labour ALWAYS do…they try to be all things to all people by NOT walking a straight path but instead veer towards the direction that they think public opinion is going. There is no united principles or policies that bind them together. Like the Tories they are split and the internal fighting within their parties restrain and prevent them from giving a clear message as to what their position is on Brexit….and other policies.

This is why they hate the SNP because pre and post referendum their message has always been clear…they campaigned to remain in the EU pre referendum and maintained that position post referendum. While both the Labour and Tory party have members who campaigned and voted for remain yet now…….because of ‘democracy’…say they respect the vote to leave and thus will endorse it.

If you, as a Tory or Labour MP, campaigned and voted for remain via EU Ref but now …because of ‘democracy’ accept leaving the EU….then you need to explain now what has changed . Democracy does not negate all of the arguments you once made for remaining….surely. So voters who also campaigned and voted remain now feel that you, those former remain MP’s, are asking them, the voters, to make the best of a bad job. To quote a phrase ‘Nothing has changed..nothing has changed’…if pre referendum it was a bad and mad policy for the UKOK to leave the EU then a ‘democratic’ vote does not CHANGE that fact….and there’s the rub for your flawed argument and fake change of heart….and the true remain voters can identify that…they see it for what it is……shite served up on red and blue platters.

What is clear is that both of your parties have surrendered to the Farage mob mentality in order to try and achieve/retain power and win votes thus you enable his party to make gains at your expense….while the SNP who have been constant in their anti Brexit message make political gains because unlike you, i.e. the Tory and Labour parties, the voters at least know what they, the SNP, represent and what their position is on the EU…..”simples”….is it not.

Perhaps it is also worth noting that both the Tory and Labour party in ‘respecting the EU result’ have become more pro Brexit largely due to their respective leaders TRUE Europhobic sentiments, which has resulted in legitimising facist self serving twats like Batten and Farage to be seen as credible options that leave voters can trust and vote for…..well done because it is both of your parties that have not only “broken politics” but will also….. break up your own country that is UKOK…..and for that I thank you for tis the only light at the end of this dark Brexshit tunnel for Scotland……IndyRef2.

Don’t even get me started on the Lib Dems…..the scavenger party…cause who is surprised that they are feeding off the remains…..pun intended…….same old same old.

Who said Scotland needs more babies?
Commentary
There were 4,016 births registered in April 2019, 8.1% per cent less than the average of the previous five Aprils.
There were 4,666 deaths registered in April 2019, a increase of 1.8% compared to the average of the previous five Aprils

ok we need to wait for a while. My wife has said no chance.

Labour have screwed up over Brexit. Despite propaganda implying otherwise, a majority of their voters were Remain. A majority of Tories were Leave. There was a clear differentiation but Labour swithered then came down on ‘wrong’ side.

They should have followed the same line as the SNP (who also have a sizeable Leave minority among supporters). Labour should been fundamentally anti Brexit but perhaps willing to compromise on a CU+SM solution. Brexit could have been branded as being owned by the Tories and the result of EURef should have been challenged as the illegalities became know. They blew it. They will now pay the price, like their Tory chums.

Having said that, I have always wondered if the SNP’s compromise on a CU+SM solution was just a ruse to appear reasonable. On the one hand a genuine offer to compromise, but on the other had made in the knowledge that it would never actually happen!

Roland Smith says:

based on most recent large poll

That might be a subset of the very big UK YouGov one. The subset was about 600 but won’t be properly waited. There is another Scotland only one, weighted properly, referred to in the previous article. It puts the Greens in a much weaker position.

We will know the truth next week!

The Blimp @3.43pm.

Dribbled like a true anti Scottish democracy, British Nationalist.

Scotland is legally an EQUAL Union partner nation.

For any Ukexit to be legitimate as a ‘uk wide vote’ (which it never could be) then Scots would have to give away their sovereignty.

Problem with that is, the bit that starts with “as long as there are 100 of us left alive. .”

No uk wide vote is possible AND being in a LEGALLY EQUAL union with England.

It makes no odds how WM acts re: the union, it is legally a biparate union of just 2 signatory kingdoms.

The Kingdom of Scotland.

The Kingdom of England.

That is not, as you put it, “petulant anti-democratic antics of the self-proclaimed anti-fascist, remaniacs” but Scots defending their EXPRESSED SOVEREIGN WILL on the matter.

Looks like we can add constitutional history to the list of stuff you do not understand.

Fooling nobody.

Ken500 says:

Getting £Millions out of the EU Cap

Not in any one year, but it will have added up 🙂

http://cap-payments.defra.gov.uk

On that subject … Post Brexit the Tories will not be paying out a replacement subsidy for CAP. For big farmers, tough. For smaller Scottish hill farmers and crofters, CAP currently keeps them afloat. It is what makes small family farms and crofts viable. It could be a disaster for the Highlands and Islands.

Still no Robert Peffers. Is he ok? Anyone know?

@Col.Blimp @ 3.43pm

“because of the petulant anti-democratic antics of the self-proclaimed anti-fascist, remaniacs”.

Petulant you say….Leave and Leaving in uppercase in your above post…Okay..over egged the emphasis on both in your response…tad petulant of you ……note also btw the other petulant mistake you made ….it is remainers not remaniacs….your welcome.

“Democracy” ….okay….if you think it is so…however I beg to differ….. as is my democratic right…on here at least….. where as in UKOK not so much.

I know another Colonel that would agree with you….she rides a tank…and no that is not an attempt by me at a double entendre.

Have a good day and don’t call again….oooh who’s being petulant now….two can play at your game… Lol.

I watched both marr and the brewers droop shows and it just confirmed AGAIN how liebour are infested with brain dead morons , they have went right through the proverbial barrel and are now scraping the mud underneath for creepy crawlies to elect as reps , to the people who voted for laird , WTAF were you thinking

————————————–

Scot F @1.40pm the gammon Colin Clark was not threatening his illustrious leader ( as if he had the balls ) I know you know this , he was doing the usual avoidance procrastination to infer possible rebellion when we all know he has the spine of a jellyfish , he and his faux Scot tories are fodder and have zero , nada , zilch say in mummy’s decisions
His condescension towards brewer was palpable but the twat thinks it’s statesmanlike

From the Herald (Paul Hutcheon): “SCOTTISH Labour’s lead candidate for the European elections has directly criticised Jeremy Corbyn by saying his policy on Brexit is confused and costing the party votes. ”

Well, according to that poll, Labour in Scotland would get 16% which would mean 1 MEP – David Martin – one of the 6 who took the A50 revocation case to the ECJ. He’s also a member of the S&D – Group of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats in the EP with 189 MEPs before the election. So that would be a good result – with 4 SNP MEPs which is possible if

YOU ALL GET OUT AND VOTE ON THURSDAY!

Just one X against the one SNP entry on the ballot sheet, which lists all 6 SNP candidates for the 6 MEP positions. My postal vote is already posted and locked in the safe at NAC.

Abulhaq 2.41pm .your opening yourself up there for a lot of name calling . But I don’t disagree with you,every man and his dog know it’s the truth.

There is not much to say about Farage and Brexit that hasn’t already been said. So its a bulleted list (minus the bullets since I couldn’t get to function 🙂 )

There’s the obvious…

Cameron monumentally screwed up and allowed a Referendum that was ‘not fit for purpose’. It was never going to be a robust, democratic process

But who cared? Farage, UKIP and the far right certainly didn’t.

Careerist Tories, hoping to move up in the party and seeking grandee approbation, got behind the Brexit campaign with twisted facts and half-truths, using populist politics to incite the mobs.

Derelict seaside towns in the South were always a good source of racial and xenophobic fodder from UKIP days.

Trumpism and Faragism are two cheeks of the same arse. Right wing, masquerading as working-class heroes.

May was never going to be smart enough, sufficiently credible, respected or statesman like, to pull off Brexit.

There’s the absurd…

The UK major parties had, still have, grossly ineffective Leaders, during one of the most difficult political, economic and cultural situations.

May was Channelling Thatcher and got an ‘Angry Neil Kinnock with a touch of Bot’

Corbyn channelled Mao Tse-tung and got Cat Weasel, mostly on a fence, with a touch of green fingers.

Boris, Gove, Leadsome, Grayling, Hunt et al. All loathsome, third-rate politicians who don’t care about people, crowding the Tories.

The Tories saved 4Billion in Welfare cuts and squandered 22Billion selling back the banks at an early discount.

Farage is a man who has traits and values that make normal people cringe, including smarmy, smug, unctuous, supercilious and lack of integrity, voted for by people who read the Daily Mail and are generally as dull as ditch water.

Farage ‘worked’ in the EU for decades. Took the salary, rarely attended. He was insulting and rude, bordering on racism and bullying on some of his EU exchanges.

Ruth Davidson in Scotland is a one trick pony, only hyped by the media and Westminster, because that trick is ‘No surrender’ against ‘Sturgeonism’.

Fishing communities in Scotland believe that Westminster won’t sell them out a second time as expendable (Like Heath did in 1970) after or during Brexit.

There’s the deception…

That Brexit is good for the ordinary family

That the Referendum is only about the UK, and how Scotland, Wales or NI voted, doesn’t matter.

That there are a multitude of alternative trade deals outside of and better than what we have in the EU.

That the Remain vote has not increased dramatically in the last three years.

That Brexit means Brexit. And that’s democracy.

BBC being ‘directed’ from high up in the Establishment to support the United Kingdom.

There’s the Extreme-Right Evolution…

The rise of the mammals came only after the dinosaurs were dying. Brexit party is filling the Labour-Tory extinction gap, using Brexit as a catalyst.

Populist politics needs no truth, just inciting, tribal rhetoric around basic survival needs.

Farage and Brexit Party visit Scotland to try to spin the idea that Scotland’s Remain majority is not significant.

Farage and Brexit deliberately conflate the Scottish Remain majority with the percentage of Brexiters in England.

Farage seeks to bring Scottish Politics in line with his hate politics in the South.

There’s the manipulation…

May and Corbyn posturing, blustering and yet colluding, because the both want Brexit. One, because it’s her last chance saloon to salvage some reputation. The other, because his visions of radical socialism would be moderated by the EU.

Farage lavishly remunerated and receiving ‘benefits in kind’ to do Bank’s bidding.

Brexit Party bankrolled and funded similarly.

Brexit Party is simply UKIP rebranded.

UK Establishment currently wondering whether exposing Farage’s and Brexit Party’s funding sins, might expose some top Tories, or might make Farage a Martyr. Is it worth the risk to instruct the Inland Revenue and MEP standards committee to investigate Farage’s financials? Now or after the elections? Or is leaking sufficient?

There’s the future…

A ‘no-deal’ Brexit will guarantee riots and social unrest, but worse, generations of anger and mistrust. And a split in society never seen before.

A ‘normal’ Brexit after such a dysfunctional referendum and process, ditto above

Remain will guarantee extremist far-right, civil disobedience and guerrilla politics. And further incitement of populist ideologies.

A second Referendum… Implemented, with reference and respect to civic responsibilities, with independents, fact checks and citizens committees, is the only solution, it will deaden the pain on both sides, although the eventually loser will still feel phantom pains of an amputated limb.

Brexit will happen. Farage saboteur MEPs will guarantee turmoil and destruction in the EU. The EU no longer wants the UK in its current form.

There’s the United Kingdom…

The United Kingdom is dead. Assassinated by the Brexit assertion that any country has the right to self-governance. And destroyed by the stark relief of the political and social differences between England and the other countries.

Westminster Politicians’ incompetence is writ large on the back of the Brexit process. Westminster Incompetence 1977 – 2019 is an epic bestseller waiting to be written.

England’s success has become its demise. It got overpopulated and the gap between the rich and the poor is a gut wrench for the ordinary (wo)man on an average salary.

England has final woken to the lecherous London economy that sucks resources from the hinterlands and f*cks their growth.

There’s Scottish Independence (Scexit)…

The Scottish National Party should rebrand as Scottish Sovereignty Party and avoid accusations of similarity to UKIP, BNP, Brexit or National Front lookalikes.

The Second Referendum in Scotland should include the question, “Should Scotland remain in the EU when England leaves?” (Now IS the time.)

The main question should not be about becoming independent, it should be about “Resuming control of our own affairs” and “working with rUK and EU as equal partner(s)”. (To fix this f%%king mess)

Scotland are NOT dependent, we are equal partners, so we should not be seeking independence.

Of any country in the world, Scotland has a Prima Facie case for exiting the UK, more so than the UK exiting the EU.

Scotland is already a country with separate laws, borders, religion and culture.

United Nations definition of the rights of people to govern themselves, could have been written for Scotland in mind.

Like Brexit, Scottish Independence will happen. As will English and Irish.

The above lists are not exhaustive…
Feel free to add.

O/T

I was just thinking. Fishermen and Fishing Communities in Scotland should not be angry at the EU. It want the EU who classed them as ‘expendable’ and traded their communities and livelihoods for EU membership.

No point to be angry at Edward Heath. He has gone and this is another crime that he wont have to answer for.

But the Fishing communities should be angry at Westminster politics and the Tories. They would be foolish to trust Westminster not to sell them out again, during the Brexit process.

The best chance for the fishing communities is to have control over our Government. And for that government to be people who know and care about Scotland.

Just sayin’

Mac@5.24
Farage is a dickhead , he fronts a long line of dickheads.
In Scotland, we can spot a dickhead a mile away.
He will implode the same way as the rest when “fun oot”.
This year’s ” chip poke wrapper”, history will judge him and his inbred arseholes.
SIMPLES.
Confused say “A dickhead who thinks he’s smart, is still a dickhead.”

Oh Aye,Well done John in Moto3.
Nice One.

Whenever Watson or Starmer look like they are laying down a clear position, Gardiner or someone else comes along and says let me make this clear, this is the case but only opposite or possibly the other way up.

Labour have mastered believing six impossible things before breakfast.

Col.Blimp IV @ 17:44,

Politicians will be politicians because people don’t always welcome the truth, but there comes a time when shady funding from foreign enemies and outrageous pandering to pernicious isolationist distortions perpetrated over decades finally breaks the system. As at least some of those involved deliberately intend. Generally rabid extremists of one kind or another, and lame copyists. The creation of sufficient confusion to uproot people from any solid grounding, in an attempt to re-create the 1930s where they hope to prosper with their blatant lies. If they succeed, we don’t have a democracy worthy of the name any more. That’s not something to be complacent about, as you clearly are. (Or worse.)

The SNP, whatever its faults may be – perceived or real – is the diametric opposite of that. Its clear aim is to create a stable and prosperous Scotland in which all may thrive.

And accordingly worthy of our unstinting support at the ballot box.

Simples really.

@ Mike Cassidy @ 6.20pm

You are so right Mike.

But does he also believe that the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round….or is he just another one flying without …Wings ?…pun intended.

Have a good evening.

As always, Paul Kavanagh gets to the nub of it:

link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com

Abulhaq 6.30pm. I remember reading about that at the time. We can only hope that enough come on board this time, when they see what a hard brexit alternative austerity will be enforced on us.

@Bobp 6:47
I do wonder what is in the expat head. Most are Brexiters, but complain when in eg Spain the government will, after Brexit, stop providing the medical care and the obligatory English interpretors.
The fact that they are the foreigners comes as a terrible shock. Very sad.

Abulhaq says:

This from the horses mouth in 2014.

” 500,000 English living in Scotland who are set to BLOCK independence “

A typical Mail exaggeration and inaccuracy.

There are about half a million rest-of-UK born people in Scotland, not voters. Some will be under 16. And many older folks would have moved here as children.

From every analysis I’ve seen, it is true that Scots born folks were a tight 50:50, perhaps marginally YES. It WAS voters born outside Scotland who swung it to NO. My view is they do live here and pay taxes here, so sadly we have to accept it.

That included rest-of-EU who didn’t want to leave the EU. That will change for IR2 and I’m not sure polling companies actually poll these voters.

As for the rest-of-UK people, Brexit and the shift of England to the right will change some minds. On that vane, the polls suggested a Labour gov next for the UK in 2014. As things turned out we have rampant far right isolationist English Nationalists threatening to take over. Many English folks might now look on Scotland in the EU quite differently.

I’m optimistic … once campaigning begins …. a comfortable majority, and not just Scots born, will see Indy as the safe and sensible option.

Abulhaq says:

I do wonder what is in the expat head

My mother had a life long friend who moved to Spain when she became widowed. My wife and I used to go a stay with her fairly often. She learned Spanish and Catalan. She had lots of local friends. She was invited to weddings and celebrations and was clearly thought well of.

She hated the other ‘ex-pats’. They were ignorant and arrogant. They moaned endlessly about the way things were done in Spain. Few made much attempt to learn Catalan which was the daily language of their neighbours.

I suppose the label ‘ex-pat’ says it all. In their minds they aren’t imiimgrants or even temporary guests. Oozing entitlement and exceptionalism.

Això és l’anglès.

Robert Peffers..
Missing your contributions.
Hope you are OK.

A concern troll,

One common tactic of concern trolls is the “a plague on both your houses” approach, where the concern troll tries to convince people that both sides of the ideological divide are just as bad as each other,

and so no one can think themselves “correct” but must engage in endless hedging and caveats.

this preys on a willingness to debate critics and allow dissent,

everyone wastes time discussing the matter and bending over backwards, so as not to appear intolerant of disagreement, all to the great amusement of the troll.

at7:33pm

God…I think I’m going to need a notepad and pencil to record everyone’s traits, motivations and allegiances.

More on how to deal with logical paradoxes.

Deleting paradoxes with fuzzy logic
link to lesswrong.com

enjoying my nightly catch up read – again – and then there goes the T word.

I suppose I can’t have everything……

Dan @ 20:16:

Hmm, maybe this idea could be incorporated into a fun but necessary dual purpose Indy campaign slogan along the lines of “We Have A Fucking Plan!”.

For a moment, Dan, I thought you had definitively cracked it, heh, heh. Then after I had quit laughing, I remembered the pensioners.

(OK, OK, before anybody complains, maybe there’s still life in some of the old dogs yet! =grin=)

To Galamcennalath you post at 7.06pm..

Your figures about how many English Irish welsh people live in Scotland are wrong I suspect you got the figure from the census of 2011.
Many many more English people now live in Scotland
Every census since WWll has shown an increase.

You say that they live here and pay taxes here so sadly we have to accept that they vote against Scottish independence.
They don’t pay taxes here in Scotland there taxes are collected by England and go to England where they then issue statements showing how much tax came from Scotland.
A slight difference from what you say but one that needs clarification.
England control all taxes raised in Scotland by collecting them although they do now give the Scottish parliament a right to a degree to set the rate, the money is collected by England and then allocated to Scotland’s parliament as part of their yearly budget.

No country in the world will automatically give people from another country automatic entitlement to a vote just because they are resident there , England itself does NOT give automatic entitlement to a vote on grounds of residency.
It is nationality and citizenship that are the deciding factors.
England didn’t even give people a vote in the brexit referendum on residency grounds even though it was only an advisory referendum and not actually legally binding.

So let’s cut the nonsense here about Scotland just having to accept people voting on Scottish independence in any old circumstances it is a travesty of justice that people could vote on Scottish independence if they had only been in Scotland a few days or weeks and lived the rest of their lives elsewhere or were here short term having lived all their lives elsewhere and intended to leave Scotland soon after the referendum with no plan to ever return.
we need more robust rules about eligibility to vote on Scotland’s future.

Most of the English people living in Scotland are here to work and will not remain here they will move back to England or move elsewhere at some point it has always been thus, a lot of them are here with HM Forces.

English people are not going to vote for Scottish independence , their country is England , it’s not scotland they will always vote for what is best for England and keeping control of this whole island is what is best for England especially if the other countries are daft enough to hand over all their money and get pocket money back.
Many many of the English people working in Scotland would not have the job they have if Scotland was an independent country there is no way any country in the world would allow immigrants from one other single country to become such a high number as to account for an eighth of their whole population.

Re we Scots need to have more babies. Well agreed so far as it goes. My two kids benefited from an excellent education, they did well. Then off to uni, no tuition fees and sufficient part time work so not much of a contribution was needed from Dad.
Result, one PHD in Biological Sciences and one masters in Mechanical Engineering. One now contributing to the wealth of the Australian economy (Oz passport applied for), the other working for a German company in England contributing to those two economies.

Somewhere along the line Scotland is missing a trick. It’s all very well breeding them, raising and educating them, but what about keeping them?

James has recovered from his eurovision song contest excursion.

Initial comment with a wee promise to update it soon.

link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com

But Ruth Davidson had her problems. The Tory Party in Scotland was still not trusted by Scots and radical change was required if the party’s fortunes were to be improved.

Ruth consulted with her minder (Dr Adam Tomkins) who advised a root and branch clear out of deadwood Tory wannabes before the 2016 Scottish parliamentary election. The process was duly delivered. Ruth’s “advisers”, hand picked every candidate.

Not one candidate was ever elected at any time, not even through the party’s internal candidate selection.

The Scottish Tory party was eliminated. Davidson was ecstatic the party in Scotland was cloned from herself. Its image was her image. They were as one.

At the 2016 Scottish Elections Davidson’s entire campaign focused on retaining Scotland’s place in the Union.

There was little mention of Scottish polices since there was little of any merit in their manifesto.

So a party of clones asked Scots to elect them to office.

Of the 73 candidates seeking election to Holyrood through the first past the post system 7 Tories were successful.

A total of 66 Tory candidates were rejected.

There were 56 List MSP posts available of which 24 were allocated to the Tory party.

Ruth appointed 24 Tory MSP clones.

In conclusion there is no Scottish Tory party.

link to caltonjock.com

And when Johston leads the Tories and with May gone, Davidson is up the kybhar pass. The Tory north branch drums will be beating already to take over. Can ye here we are the champions in the distance?!!!

They will be encouraged to stay at home with better job prospects. As most jobs wont then be siphoned off to London and the south of England.

Moonlight @ 21:14,

Aye, it’s a sad auld sang. Everybody around the world valued our sons and daughters more than we did, as we wrung our hands and meekly did as we were telt.

There’s just one answer, and we all know what it is. It will only be a start, but even great journeys begin with one step.

And this journey we will do thegither.

Completely O/T

I went over to my TV magazine to see when the Scottish football was on. After all there was a crunch couple of matches with Killie and the Dons tightly fighting for third place and Europen football and Celtic looking to win as they got the prize. Of course the playoffs for promotion and relegation were going on across the country yesterday as well.
THERE IS NO SCOTTISH FOOTBALL ON BBC SCOTLAND TONIGHT.
BBC is deliberately diminishing Scottish football. It is I believe paying more money to the commentators on its English coverage than it is paying to all of Scottish footabll.

In fairness Dave STV is as bad.

Lot to be said for games starting and finishing at the same time.Then watch Sportscene on Sat night, Scotsport on Sunday.

We are shortchanged by both broadcasters

Brian Doonthetoon
It’s not in the TV magazine I’ve got
Must have forgotten they are in Scotland

CameronB Brodie,

Came across this earlier re the growth ( or lack of) you were talking about.

This is one bit from Evonomics.

“Thus the huge growth in wealth relative to the rest of the economy originates not from savings of income derived from people’s contribution to production( activity that would have created jobs and raised incomes), but rather from windfalls resulting from exclusive control of a scarce natural resource : land.

Now that gets down to the nitty gritty but possibly one of the biggest underlying reasons why ‘some’ are so resistant to Indy.

Or put this way, “homes and land underneath them has increased by four times ( or 400%) between 1995 and 2015; from £1.2 trillion to £5.5 trillion,largely due to increase in house prices rather than a change in the volume of dwellings.”

Same as it ever was…

Labour’s position on Brexit reflects their “leader” – it’s fraudulent. The new kinda politics is the same old stuff, put across in subdued tones designed to persuade the listener that they are just not clever enough to comprehend the incomprehensible. Whereas comrade Corbyn, of course …..

Corbyn has as much insight as May – zero.

Hopefully, ever increasing numbers of people now realise it.

Back in pre-EEC Scotland, I used to sell the “Citizen” around the pubs and Football grounds. There were FOUR editions on a Saturday.

The first was the normal general Newspaper which went out at lunchtime, the second was more Sports orientated had the half-time scores and early horse racing results.

Then there was the Full time results edition which had match reports up to half time and had the final scores and more horse racing results, added to a blank section on the back page at the local office. We could hand them out to the fans as they were leaving Brockville or Firs Park.

Then the Sports Final which had all the full match reports, Racing news and analysis which we took round the pubs between 6:30 and 7:30.

Of course nobody had smart phones back then, at least not in Scotland as far as I am aware.

Molly
Britain’s economy is being run in to the ground by economically illiterate ideologues who are amplified by the media. Austerity is unnecessary yet layed the ground for the full-English Brexit. Was that an error in judgement or a desired outcome?

What Brexit and austerity tell us about
economics, policy and the media.

In this paper, which formed the basis of my Prize lecture, I want to argue the following:

1. Only a minority of academic economists ever supported austerity but this fact is almost completely absent in public discussion.

2. The necessity of austerity was accepted by nearly all the mainstream media (MSM). When the floods came at the end of 2013, to my knowledge no one presented the data showing the extent of cuts in flood defences.

3. The media’s acceptance of the Conservatives’ narrative on the economy played a critical role in allowing the Conservatives to win the 2015 election.

4. Treating the near unanimous views of economists as opinion rather than expertise neutralised the economic argument against Brexit.

5. Political coverage in the broadcast media needs to prick the Westminster bubble and open itself up, letting in academic economic expertise in particular.

speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/SPERI-Paper-36-What-Brexit-and-austerity-tell-us-about-economics-policy-and-the-media.pdf

I wish I was a better proof-reader.

Brexit and the Problem of European Disintegration

Abstract

The Brexit referendum provokes speculation about the likelihood of European disintegration. This article discusses how scholarship might deal with the issue of disintegration and argues that it should be thought of as an indeterminate process rather than an identifiable outcome.

Within the EU system, Brexit is likely to unleash disintegrative dynamics, which could see the EU stagnate into a suboptimal institutional equilibrium. At the same time, EU studies needs to lift its gaze beyond the internal dynamics of the EU system to consider the disintegration of the democratic capitalist compact within which European integration has been embedded historically

link to jcer.net

Scottish football has the highest attendence figures as % of the population than any country in Europe,(by a fair margin)

maybe less live tv games encourages citizens to actually go to the games.

OT
Just come across some extraordinary abuse that Vonny LeClerc from the National is getting. Really nasty stuff, and it seems to have been ongoing for a while.

“I feel utterly abandoned. A year of this with no help from the police and no response from Instagram. There is a toxic war against women brewing on these platforms. Why is no one taking action?”

Good question Vonny, This is not acceptable, neither that it happens, nor that the victim is left feeling so abandoned.

link to mobile.twitter.com

Anybody have constructive advice? This is criminal abuse in my opinion, and the perpetrator seems sick in the head. Why haven’t the police been able to intervene? Straight question, no accusation. What’s going on???

Interesting watching Remainers in England turning to the LibDems as the answer to Brexit. I cannot think of a more untrustworthy party. However their salvation comes via the measure “not as bad as the others”

Be the “grey man”. Be all things to all people. Be willing to sell your principles for a ministerial car.
What a measure of political aspiration “We are not as bad as Boris and Nigel”

In Scotland my own experience in 2011-2014 period found them to be the most aggressive unionists I encountered throughout the campaign.

The FibDems are staunch unionists – that is their primary drive. They ignore the reality of the choice between being Eurpeans or in the UK.

LibDems are not an option if you support Scottish Independence.

In politics unity is critical and for that reason I will vote SNP at every election. When we have truly independent political parties in an Independent Scotland, I will vote for the one with the best manifesto fit to my values.

@ Breeks – Re Vonny Leclerc – I read the thread but it’s not clear whether she has made a formal complaint to the police. She needs to print the tweets off and take them to a police station and say “I want to make a formal complaint.”
That has to be recorded with a formal case number and she can follow up how that case is progressing.
There is no doubt the tweets are a threat.

Surely, this was never in doubt Ms Sturgeon?
link to thenational.scot
Your legions of supporters expect, so just get on with it.

Everyone can get abused on the internet. Either don’t go on it. Ignore it! Block it. It is called out. Some of the people how make most complaint are the one’s who give it, Gender is not an issue. People can be equally abused. It people do not like stay off it. Take it with a pinch of salt. Sticks and stones. It does get called out and rebounds.

One or two posters above reminiscing about the old pink and green football special papers on a Saturday night, and wondering how it was done.

Back then, each paper had a “stringer” at every game; more often than not the sports reporter from the local weekly paper, or a dedicated freelance journalist. This reporter filed “runners,” match reports written in small segments during the game:

Teams, referee and a paragraph of intro – filed pre-match.
Short reports, goals, bookings etc – filed at 20 minutes, and just after the half hour.

A longer half-time piece, summing-up the first half.
An update, mid-way through the second
any further goals etc, filed on 80/85 minutes
A full-time piece, final score, any late goals.

With this out of the way, the stringer would then perhaps settle down to do his Sunday paper report (if he was working for more than one paper); then go down to the post-match managers’ press conference for the quotes etc, for the Sunday and Monday pieces.

All these reports were filed, dictated down a telephone, to the copy takers.

Today, if the papers are not staffing a game, one guy files for PA, while maybe three or four other guys are tweeting for the club’s twitter feeds (official and unofficial) with longer pieces for the club websites.

In theory, it should be easier today. In practice, the papers don’t have the finances or manpower to give anything above a basic service – hence the rise of the twitter-sphere.

Also, radio does it far-faster when it comes to goal flashes etc.

I started under the old system – by the time you got home on a Saturday night, your head was frazzled.

I doubt if today’s semi-trained “journalists” could cope with the old hot metal ways of working. Although, due respect to the far-too-few proper sub-editors still working on production shifts these days.

The LibDems caused Brexit. They allowed Cameron the support to have one. Going into coalition. They got taken for fools and caused austerity. AV Ref failure. No one was interested. A complete and utter failure. 30%? turnout.

The LibDem caused all this mess and shambles. They are total hypocrites covering up child abuse.

Clegg, the liar, now works for the tax evaders. What a complete nasty hypocrite.

No wonder people are angry. A complete and utter unionist shambles. They are a disgrace.

The Condem liars elected to protect NHS and education. Cut them both. They cut Education £6Billions a year. (£30Billion) NHS cut £4Billion a year. (£20Billion)

The SNP Scottish Gov had to mitigate all these cuts. The Scottish budget was illegally cut. 10% a year. Now £3Billion. When the Scottish tax revenues have gone up £4Billion a year. From £54Billion to £60Billion.

UK tax revenues went up £95Billion a year, From £533Billion to £628Billion. There were absolutely no need for these cuts or austerity. It cost more. Killing people.

The Westminster useless, unionist imbeciles are a disgrace. An international laughing stock. Dangerous people,

People nowadays have more disposable income to spend on other things than certain sports and overpaid madonnas. More variety. Sectarianism in Scotland does not help the sport. It drives away supporters. It is illegal but the Law is not enforced. The Police are to busy putting people in cells overnight on ‘charges’ that can never come to Court. Wasting public monies,

I just watched that Lesley Laird interview and the Corbyn interview earlier. Labour’s position is clear all right – they are deliberately obfuscating in an attempt to avoid offending anyone. They must know that their current position is not understood by the electorate. And yet they persist in avoiding any commitment to one position or another. From a cynical electoral perspective, that would be OK if by not clarifying their position they were gaining votes. But they are haemorrhaging support throughout the UK. Who would want to vote Labour? A remainer? A leaver? A Scottish independence supporter? A unionist? Each of these categories of voter has a better alternative than Labour to vote for.

I keep looking for the clever game plan hidden in Labour’s tactics because I cannot believe that a credible political force could mishandle things so badly. But perhaps that is where I am going wrong – I am assuming that they are a credible political force.

Clootie
You don’t need a graph to understand Scotland does not have the same problem with institutional racism as England does,. Subsequently, the full-English Brexit gets the rubber ear in Scotland. I’ve already provided empirical support for this, if you had bothered to check.

Patrick Roden
Please can I have permission to exist?

Patrick Roden
You make it look as if I’m steeling knowledge, but all the material I’m posting is already in the public domain. What’s your game? It looks like you are trying to indicate I don’t know what I’m talking about, or that I’m working for the other team?

Patrick Roden
Your having a laugh right? Who am I in comparison to Oxbridge or MIT?

@CameronB Brodie

…it was a joke but I’ve obviously touched a nerve…so I apologise. Since it is our first interaction to my knowledge “gormless prick” seems rather strong.

@CBB,

You ask ‘who am I compared to Oxbridge or MIT,

But you are an above average intelligent man, so the question is if you couldn’t hope to compete with these universities, how is the ordinary punters on wings supposed to understand the links you post?

This was you own field of academic study so, if you don’t understand the papers you share, how will anyone else?

If you do understand them, simplify them and share these versions with everyone else.

As I mentioned before, to truly understand any subject, you should be able to simplify enough for almost anyone at any level to be able to comprehend. (The Rubber Duck method)

Try it, as a clever man, once you get ‘into it’ you will probably enjoy it, far more than you imagine.

@CBB,

I’ve only ever saw one poster ‘attack’ you on wings, but your ‘defensiveness’ that usually result in you insulting the other persons lack of intelligence, or such, does you no favours, and in my case, will usually cause the other to strike right back.

As people who all want the same thing, this is not a good thing, and a waste of energy that we could all put to better use.

@CBB,

If you have permission to share links on wings, there will be no need for me to take any concerns to Rev.

If you don’t have permission, and since you wouldn’t wish to cause any harm to wings, (surely this must be true?) then you would now want to contact the Universities you have mentioned just to ensure that they are happy for the papers to be shared for the reasons you have previously stated.

Is this too difficult to understand?

@CBB,

You have said that the papers you share come from Oxbridge and MIT, so this is only two quick emails you need to fire off,

That’s not a lot of work.

Patrick Roden
I contacted the Rev. directly during indyref1, to ask him to remove material I didn’t have permission to use. He didn’t appear to be bothered, my post remained. I am selective of the sources I use.

Ok CBB,

I need to fly, but I’m glad we had this little discussion as we probably understand each other far better now,

All the best CBB.

Ahhh…all is clear. It’s NOT a second referendum it’s a ‘confirmatory vote’ That’s VERY different…