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Wings Over Scotland

The results we’ve come to expect

Posted on October 30, 2016 by

Saturday 11.34am:


Saturday 8.02pm:


Wow, that’s fast. We can only assume she took John McTernan with her.

[EDIT: She did.]


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176 to “The results we’ve come to expect”

  1. Gaelstorm says:

    Leaving aside the hypocrisy of not doing “the day job”, should someone who aspires to leading the country be involving themselves so partisanly in another country’s internal affairs?

  2. Greg says:

    Kinda takes the wind out of telling Nicola Sturgeon to “get on with the day job”! 😮

  3. peter says:

    OMG you would think she would be better, getting her own s*** together. Ie getting on with her day job….

  4. Dorothy Devine says:

    Ach well ! No need to vote now Yanks , it’s in the bag for Hillary now she has oor Kezia on her side.

    Puir auld Trump – whit use is yer 12 point lead noo?

  5. Vestas says:

    I hold the fond hope that Dugdale will “do a “Mensch”* and bugger off to the US permanently. Just like Mensch, the UK will be a far far better place if she does.

    *Lousie Mensch, who threw a strop, resigned as an MP & went to run some gutter rag in the US…

  6. Robert Peffers says:

    Can we be looking at a Scottish led Red Tory bid to gain independence for Scotland from the UK and EU and then instigate a new union with The Donald?

  7. Wulls says:

    Beggars belief.
    Coincidence ?????? One wonders.
    As Peter says she needs to get her shit together in Scotland before this…….
    It’s like the Captain of the Costa Concordia offering navigation advice.

  8. Dinnatouch says:

    Was it a 12 point lead or a 7 point lead? No, sorry that’s the wrong question, was it a typo or did the Mail deliberately lie in the headline to make the story seem worse?

  9. mealer says:

    Oh dear.The unfortunate Ms Dugdale would be better sticking to the day job.Not her current day job,obviously,where she is clearly out of her depth,but something more appropriate to her skill set.

  10. Undeadshaun says:

    Another added cost of brexit Britain being being open for business.
    Taxpayers to pick up cost of waste storage from hinckley.

  11. Robert Peffers says:

    @Gaelstorm says: 30 October, 2016 at 8:16 am:

    “Leaving aside the hypocrisy of not doing “the day job”, should someone who aspires to leading the country be involving themselves so partisanly in another country’s internal affairs?”

    Och! Gaelstorm, thae Red Yoon loons have been involving themselves in the affairs of three other countries for many hundreds of years right here in the United Kingdom.

  12. scotspine says:

    So, a Scots British Unionist off campaigning for a leadership candidate in a Country that fought a war to gain independence from the British.

  13. Sinky says:

    O/T OMG now we have the wit and wisdom of Brian Wilson on Radio Shortbread until 9 am.

    In Sunday Times we have another finely balanced article from Gillian Bowditch comparing NHS Scotland with East Germany.

    Check out the facts

  14. Patch Bruce says:

    What gets me is that (mcmini mouse) Dugdale tweeted her words like they/she actually mattered!

  15. Hamish100 says:

    Funny how failed lib dem and exBBC Christine Jardine shrilled on Shereen’s radio programme yesterday saying she had just returned from the US helping Hillary!!

    Does Mrs Clinton really need the failures forementioned.

    BBC scotchland has ex Brian Wilson on ripping into the Labour party (southern branch) and snp. This guy toady’s up to the nuclear industry amongst others and failed cunninghame when an MP.

    He claims he is a radical Labour- New Labour wasnt all bad. Did he mean Iraq? Afghanistan?

    Once off the stage stay off it in reference to Tony Blair– so why is he on the BBC. No pleasure in how the Scottish Parliament has turned out. Scotland doesn’t exist. Funny he has said so many times he is a Celt or is it Selt?

  16. winifred mccartney says:

    Maybe kez realises America is independent and will come to realise Scotland is the last colony and should also be independent. In the meantime Anas is sharpening his dagger and the NHS is safe with kez out of the way – not doing her day job.

  17. Dr Jim says:

    Can all the children read in America even the ickle babies
    Has Hillary got all the power and a big office in America
    Will Hillary put up all the tax to make things fair in America
    When Kezia grows up will she be just like Hillary

    It’s like me saying Superman’s in need of help so I’m on my way

    Wee soul eh, is it a learning difficulty?

  18. Jim Thomson says:

    Does Jeff know his daughter has gone AWOL? Where’s her responsible adult when most needed?

    Does she honestly think her whiny voice will sway the electorate (doesn’t matter which way)?

  19. galamcennalath says:

    Spoilt my Sunday morning 🙁

    Trump might actually win?

  20. Smallaxe says:

    We fired our guns but the British kept a’comin!

    Lock an’ load you guys their back!!

  21. Jim Thomson says:

    @Hamish 100 8:46

    Brian Wilson is just the next on the Gordon Brewer list of SNP BAAAAD spouters.

    Every week, the same tired old agenda.

    Feel the value of your BBC licence fee yet?

  22. Ken500 says:

    It’s a sham. Just like the UK Union.

    Shame anyone gets involved in it.

    Another jolly at taxpayer’s expense.

  23. Macart says:

    Day job coming along well then Kezia?

    Apparently now’t much happening in Scotland these days.


  24. Brian Powell says:

    Jim Thomson

    The BBC buys 75,000 copies of the Guardian each year and 75,000 copies of the Times, so not only are Scots licence payers paying for the BBC to attack us, but for the Guardian and the Times to attack us.

    I don’t buy any of those now.

  25. Clootie says:

    Ian Rankin on Andrew Marr giving weight to the ” Spain would stop Scottish Independence…Catalonia etc”. I would have expected a writer to be more capable of research!

    He did manage to quote the Herald but I fail to accept that as research.

  26. galamcennalath says:

    O/T and back to this side of the pond. An excellent piece from Aljazeera …

    “The UK has no choice on ‘hard’ or ‘soft’ Brexit

    Brexiteers underestimate the level of spite European negotiators are willing to display.”

    … I agree. Scary, but realistic. IMO there are two deals – the one the EU offers, and the UK walking away with no agreement.

  27. DerekM says:

    Could someone tell Kez the USA is not a Britnat region and the democrats are not the Labour party.

    Once again in the middle of the biggest constitutional question faced by the UK she runs away to hide.

    To be honest even though i think trump is a big fud i have been watching the US MSM use all the same tricks as the BUM do against Nicola and the SNP.

    Never really studied the US networks before and we think the state propaganda is shocking here the yanks take it to a whole new level.

    The Donald is a big zoomer but i kind of hope he wins as Clinton is pure evil i think what disturbs me most is the fact one of them has to win.

  28. jimnarlene says:

    Labour’s hypocrisy, knows no bounds.

  29. J Galt says:

    With Kezia on the job I’m starting to think my £2 on Trump is safe!

    Just what exactly did they do to her during her suspiciously unpublicised Washington “Leadership’s Course”.

    Can you imagine the Furore if Nicola had gone to Moscow for a “Leadership Course”!

  30. Valerie says:

    I saw this on Twitter, and good to see folk did call her out for it.

    In particular, expenses were mentioned, so this would need to come out of party funds.

    It really looks like Kez is just lounging around on the gravy train, because what has that circus got to do with her? Oh wait…..

  31. schrodingers cat says:

    ewan macgregor moving from no to yes cos of brexit

    the worm is turning

  32. G H Graham says:

    Clinton – “What’s that noise? Why is someone vacuuming upstairs while I’m having a meeting down here?”

    Aide – “Actually Madame Secretary, it’s that whining MSP from Scotland talking on the phone. Some guy called John McTernan I think, was asking for her.”

  33. Richardinho says:

    Whilst I hope Hillary Clinton does win the election, simply because the alternative is so awful for the US and the rest of the world, I wouldn’t cross the street for her. let alone the Atlantic.

  34. Bob Mack says:

    Never fails does it ? The instant Dugdale or McTernan come down on your side you are doomed.

    Is she really dumb enough to try ingratiating herself to old USA ? Maybe they will give her an extra missile for Jamba.

  35. Brian Powell says:


    “Brexiteers underestimate the level of spite European negotiators are willing to display.”

    Brexiters would like to to portray it as spite, it would support their feeble agenda, but EU negotiators simply will be looking out for maximum benefit to EU members not the UK.

    And when they are faced with Tory negotiators who have spent 40 years denigrating the EU they have no reason to wear kid gloves.

  36. Marcia says:

    I hope she is campaigning in the District of Columbia, Clinton cannot lose that one.

  37. Stoker says:

    So Dippy Dug ensures she continues to be unavailable to address all that’s going on in and with Scotland by jetting off to involve herself in American politics.

    I wonder who financed this latest little trip across the pond?
    Did it come out of her own pocket? Did London pay for it?
    Or did she dip into Slab funds? I think we should be told.

  38. chris kilby says:

    First Nigel, now Kez. Hasn’t America been through enough…?

  39. Grouse Beater says:

    Almost 3,000 hits yesterday and piling on today!

    Read why Gibraltarians identify with Scotland, and are mad as hell at Brexit:

    On Radio Scotland this morning (overheard in car) arch fabricator and permanent delusionist Brian Wilson attributes Labour’s collapse to “Not drawing a red line between devolution and independence”.

    In other words, Labour were not totalitarian enough telling Scotland this far and no further. There’s nothing like a Labour politician to halt democratic progress.

  40. chris kilby says:

    You’d think Kez would have enough on her plate what with SLab facing imminent annihilation in the cooncil elections.

  41. gordoz says:


    Ewan McGregor sounding honest on Marr show;

    Ian Rankin not so much, more playing to the masters gallery.

    Well he woz in London, what a sweetie.

    Pathetic really, sad ?

  42. Ken500 says:

    Curtice supporting Independence in the EU? The worm is turning. Funny how folk change their mind when their income is affected.

    Loads of money for polls from BT supporters. Unionists/LibDem supporters misusing public money.

    Ewan MacGregor making denial. Then admits it. Then changes mind, with no vote? Supports refugees. Bomber brother?

    Not Ian Rankin.

  43. McDuff says:

    In what way can this political failure with the intellect of a pine cone possibly contribute to Clinton`s campaign unless she holds some coats at a convention.
    And I wonder how many other Unionist politicians are in the US backing one of the two candidates. Now call me suspicious but could it be that after the US elections the president whether it be Clinton or Trump will return the favour by backing the Unionists in the event of Indy2.

  44. t42 says:

    its all hands to the pump as hillary sinks. every blairite drone is being asked to support the queen bee. meanwhile on the street a homeless women defending trumps star is targeted by a hate filled mob of hillary supporters. her name is denise scott there is a gofundme where ordinary people can help her.

  45. Legerwood says:

    Valerie says:
    30 October, 2016 at 9:25 am
    “”I saw this on Twitter, and good to see folk did call her out for it.

    In particular, expenses were mentioned, so this would need to come out of party funds.””

    Is it not the case that some at least of the party funds come from Labour MSPs who are expected to donate £10,500 from their salaries or office expenses to a fund for the leader of the party?

    Therefore one way or another the money may be coming from us, the taxpayers.

  46. McDuff says:

    In what way can this political failure with the intellect of a pine cone possibly contribute to Clinton`s campaign unless she holds some coats at a convention. And I wonder how many other Unionist politicians are in the US backing one of the two candidates. Now call me suspicious but could it be that after the US elections the president whether it be Clinton or Trump will return the favour by backing the Unionists in the event of Indy2.

  47. Marker Post says:

    If that’s the same poll as this one, it was taken even before Friday’s letter from the FBI, which can only have damaged Clinton even further:

    What looked to be a slam-dunk has suddenly become interesting. I can’t imagine many Clinton supporters switching to Trump, but they might just stay at home instead.

  48. M McCreadie says:

    She should’ve taken Jim’s crate

  49. Almannysbunnet says:

    Kezia obviously enjoyed her last trip to the US and certainly came back with a heightened sense of her own self worth. Can you imagine the furore if an American politician flew over here just to campaign in one of our elections?

    If Farage is over supporting Trump it could be a close run presidential race.

    Hope they both apply for green cards while there.

  50. Hamish100 says:

    Is Dugdale not aware of an invention called the telephone? Would save all her air miles and save Heathrow! How about Skype? Facetime?

    “Hi Kezzy here from north branch office!!– oops not your north madam Trump but from your hubby’s ancestral golf course hame.”

    “Who am I?”

    “Ehhhhhhhh i’ll let you speak to our leading campaign manager called McTernan (good american name like BIG MAC) and good friend of the Murph who luv’s visiting the good “US of A” as I do. Please vote for me…. sorry Hillary..” “…. Whats my day job?….Ehhhhhhhh i’ll let you speak to our leading campaign manager called McTernan (good american name like BIG MAC) and good friend of the Murph who luv’s visiting the good “US of A” as I do. Please vote for me….. her… no not Ruthie my wee pal.Hills..”

  51. Marker Post says:

    I read somewhere that the reason Clinton set up a private email server in the first place, was to try to get around Freedom of Information laws while she was Secretary of State. Maybe Kez isn’t there to help at all, but to get tips on running her own party (sorry, branch-office).

    The whole US election, played out on a world stage, has become a bit of an omnishambles.

  52. Chic McGregor says:

    “Another jolly at taxpayer’s expense.”

    Unless Trump’s team have clandestinely and anonymously funded the trip. 🙂

  53. Breastplate says:

    I’m no fan of Trump or Clinton but I would have to disagree as my belief is that Hilary Clinton is the one more likely to want a face-off with the Russians. I don’t believe that’s a path any sane person would wish to tread.

    Also, Trump although having a thoroughly unpleasant way with people, as far we can tell hasn’t sanctioned the deaths of men, women and children unlike Hilary.

    I would suggest Craig Murray is right when he says that the US should vote for Jill Stein en masse.

  54. Takeour blueback says:

    Well folk, that’s how your Union affiliation fees are being spent, make sure you contact your Union and ensure your fees are not supporting these freeloaders! See MrMalky (Twitter) on how to do this!

    Here’s the reaction from American electorate…

    1. “Who the flock is that?”
    2. “What language is that?”


  55. Giving Goose says:

    Kez is nothing more than a typical Labour careerist.
    In typical Labour fashion she’s more interested in sideline activities that take her away from what she should be doing.
    She should be campaigning for the best interests of the Scottish people but in true Labour fashion, that will not even be on her radar.
    What a waste of an MSP position when it could be occupied by someone who actually wants to work for the community!

  56. Brian Powell says:

    OT The National

    An article by Pat Kane.

    Web edition headline: “Pat Kane: Air travel could be key for indy Scotland … but how does that square with our environmental ambitions?”

    Print edition headline: ” Sturgeon’s difficult balance: Go Green or get in bed with the Tories.”

    Did a sub-editor creep in from the Herald or moonlighting from the Scotsman?

  57. ronnie anderson says:

    nae flies oan Kezia ,she’s looking towards the future & Her Wedding no many people kin say they’ve hud the American President as ah guest .

  58. HandandShrimp says:

    I feel profoundly sorry for our Merkin chums. They really are between the devil and the deep blue sea. Hillary looks like the least worst option but she is a bit trigger happy on the foreign policy front. On the other hand Trump could start WW3 simply because he groped Putin’s daughter or something.

    I think the US will wake up with a hangover whichever bottle they drink from from.

  59. Calum McKay says:

    I wonder who is paying for this trip?

    I bet when people gave funds to labour in Scotland they assumed it would be spent in Scotland and not air fares to the US and expensive New York hotels rooms.

    I wonder what Donald Dewar or John Smith would make of labour in Scotland 2016, Kez as leader and this trip?

  60. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Wee bit on imperial radio
    May dose not understand that to a German no is no and yes is yes. Nothing in between not yes maybe or no maybe. The Germans take a May no or yes at absolutely face value.
    Negotiations are going well not.

  61. Capella says:

    Why is New Labour and the BBC so obsessed by the American elections? Remember Ed Miliband hiring David Axelrod? Will Kezia transform into a “happy warrior”?

    The BBC website has had wall-to-wall coverage of the American election for weeks. Why not similar attention to – say – the Russian elections, the Chinese elections or even EU elections? Then people in the UK might have a more balanced and informed world view.

  62. Joemcg says:

    If she is paying for this herself (doubtful) it’s still technically taxpayers cash she’s using. What a waste of money!

  63. Gerry says:

    This decision to go to the US is confusing given the timing. Perhaps Kez sees a future for herself in and around US politics. She certainly has none in Scotland.

  64. JLT says:

    When I saw the first article on Facebook about Kezia’s latest disappearance act, I actually took it as a joke. Then I saw a second one further down the page, and then I knew that the articles were serious.

    On further investigation, I couldn’t believe what I was reading. I tried to find out a wee bit more as to the reason and context of Kezia’s decision, but at the end of last night, I was still left asking that one major question, ‘…Why?’

    To compound the seriousness of it just that little bit further, I had to admire the canvassers from Labour’s grassroots support asking why Kezia was getting involved in someone else’s election, when week after week, she has continually harangued the First Minister by demanding that ‘Nicola Sturgeon …gets on with her day job’, just as she ‘promised to do in her manifesto’ rather than ‘obsessing’ over independence and another Referendum.

    Well …pot, kettle, black. I would be most delighted in any Scottish Labourite could point out to me in any manifesto that has been made by Kezia Dugdale where at some point, she needs to take immediate action and get herself across the Atlantic to help out in Hilary Clinton’s Presidential campaign.

    It just beggars belief.

    And not only that, but Kezia has form on this. After the EU Referendum result, she decided to take off to the United States for a 5 week holiday (where as the excuse goes, she was busy meeting ‘trade unions, government officials and charity workers’, but let’s be truthful …it was really a skive).

    Well, the outcome from this latest mistake will be obvious to everyone. Not only will she get pelters from the media, but Nicola Sturgeon, in her own way, will gleefully cast up this latest disaster everytime Kezia tries to find fault with the First Minister’s day job. But the real damage is with the Party’s own activists who will now be looking on in serious bemusement of a leader who now seems to be publicly showing that the only thing that matters in the day-to-day political life of Kezia Dugdale …is Kezia Dugdale. The grassroots supporters must be wondering why bother now, when it is perfectly clear that their own leader can’t be bothered either. It is another nail in the coffin of Scottish Labour.

    Not only that, but even the Scottish Labour MSP’s must be looking on in disbelief and incredulity as they watch a leader who is obviously concentrating on herself and possibly even positioning herself for a career outside of Scottish Labour, while at the same time, telling everyone in Scotland, that Scottish Labour won’t back independence in the face of an EU Brexit vote. Many of these Labour MSP’s must be wondering whether it is time to finally dismiss Kezia as leader, and thus begin looking at alternatives, even if that does encompass the idea of independence. If Kezia can concentrate solely on herself, then why can the rest of the Labour MSP’s do so too? If independence might save their careers, then to hell with Kezia and her warped-independence stance altogether.

    The public interest in what happens next with Kezia will be very interesting once Ms Dugdale returns from the States to a very bemused nation.

  65. Artyhetty says:

    Aside from the money it will be costing, and whose money she is spending, is it part of her remit to go to other countries to be part of a political campaign?,

    I would have thought unless she is taking annual leave and doing this outwith the day job she doesn’t do in her Yookay, it would be against party rules to campaign in a political capacity, (capacity, wrong choice of word I know! :-/)

    I am sure the daily rags will be onto this pronto, not!

  66. HandandShrimp says:

    If Kezia is there she is not here.

    I can’t see a problem really 😉

  67. msean says:

    Watch out for the Democrats finishing in 3rd place now.

  68. You know what happenrd to the last redcoat invasion.

  69. Gerry says:

    @msean Thanks for that. I am now wiping the coffee off my screen. Fkn hilarious, TY

  70. Joemcg says:

    The area I’m staying in at the moment in the past week I’ve spotted Ian Rankin Alistair Darling Jackson Carlaw and yesterday Ian Murray talking to his proud Scot constituents in the street. Who needs Hallowe’en!

  71. JLT says:

    To note also, the BBC has reported hee-haw on this. If it had been Nicola, Alex or John Swinney, then they would have had a field day screaming at the SNP that the American Presidential Election has absolutely nothing to do with Scottish politicians.

    One could therefore come to the conclusion that to report Kezia’s latest antic would only lead to further resentment towards the Scottish Labour Party, while at the same time, crystallising the support for the SNP

    or ….the horrible truth for Kezia herself is, that she is now a non-entity who no longer matters to most Scots, nor to their decision-making …which then makes her pronounced arrival in the United States leaving the Democrat leadership in puzzlement as they wonder why this strange sounding little woman from someplace called Scatland is here to save their Hilary.

  72. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Brian Powell @ 11.09am

    Anent sub-editing at The Herald. Most of the sub-editing for the paper is now done at Newsquest’s central subbing centre, in Newport, Gwent.

    I understand a lot of the subs working there come through the Cardiff University Media course, so probably have little or no idea about or experience of the special requirements of Scots Law for Journalists – or, very little practical feet on the ground, hard news experience.

    And it shows.

    AS for the psper’s website journalists – I despair. A couple of weeks ago, I pointed out to the paper, on the website they had spelled Coupar Angus as Cooper Angus (sic). It was corrected to Couper Angus (sic).

  73. Movy says:

    Is it possible that Kez is preparing the way for her next career presumably in the States post independence – exactly as Ruth Davidson could be with appearances on the TV?

  74. Mike says:

    The polling between these two is very demographically split so it would be no bother at all to show polls with one or the other in the lead just by concentrating on specific demographics.
    I think Hillary will win simply because there are more women than men voters in the US.
    Of course the Democrats could have made the contest far easier and less risky if they had gone with Bernie Saunders instead of somebody as toxic as Clinton.
    Seems voters in the US are as dumb as the voters in England.

  75. otherdemons says:

    If I’m not mistaken, McTernan has already predicted a large victory for Hillary Clinton on Twitter. Scary times.

  76. North chiel says:

    Wasn’t Kezia also in Yorkshire lately campaigning in the
    Bye election there??.

  77. Macbeda says:

    I thought she would be up in Aberdeen helping the Yoons to try and retain the seat in the by election.

  78. Arbroath1320 says:

    Personally I think whoever wins, the Muppet or the lying warmongering greed merchant, America is screwed good and proper.

    However, there is one question that always raises its head when I hear about “British” politicians going over the pond to help either Trump or Clinton and it’s “WHY?”

    America is not, unless I’ve missed something when I blinked, part of the U.K., its empire or Commonwealth. So the question is why do “British” feel the need to go putting their noses into something that does not need their help. It’s not like American politicians are always over here “helping” “British” politicians during our elections now … is it? 😉

    I can only guess with the fact that wee Kez is over in the U.S. she did not receive the e-mail from her boss, wee Ruth “where’s my next photo op.” Davidson, about getting on with her day job then. 😀

    My heart goes out to all those “Normal” Americans, yes I do believe they do still exist. No matter who wins Trump or Clinton America is in for one hell of a ride to the bottom of humanity.

    For me the most worrying aspect is the idea that trouble like this will continue unabated. As most folks may know by now there is a long standing “battle” between the indigenous Red Indian population of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe of North Dakota against an oil pipeline. They have been peaceful but hundreds have been arrested. This pipeline goes through their territory “given” to them by the American President in 1861. I believe this may be the last treaty left that has not been broken by the U.S. government.

    No matter who enters the White house there is no doubt in my mind the indigenous people, along with millions of non indigenous people, will suffer greatly for the benefit of the “few.” Now where have we seen that happen before I wonder. 😉

  79. HandandShrimp says:

    If I’m not mistaken, McTernan has already predicted a large victory for Hillary Clinton on Twitter. Scary times.

    Oh Bugger!

  80. Valerie says:

    Heads up!

    For those not on Twitter, check the Revs timeline.

    He has dropped an e-mail off to his solicitor, due to a Jakey and that mad wummin at the Express article.

    Seems there are defamatory remarks and altered tweets!

  81. cearc says:

    So is it Anas for next leader?

    Her support in the remnants of her own party must shrinking rapidly. They don’t seem to think much of this and I would have thought there would have been some murmurings when they got the NEC seat and she democratically (the labour way) and promptly took it herself without consultation.

    Why wasn’t she campaigning in Iceland?

  82. otherdemons says:


    Now for something more light-hearted: as I searched on Google for McTernan’s predictions, I also found out about his namesake over the pond:
    “The blog that keeps you on the cutting edge of prophetic events”

  83. heedtracker says:

    Google Hillary/Scotland, get millions of this headline from every single UKOK news crew, all of them. Great source of how teamGB attack propaganda in action.

    Hillary Clinton: I would hate Britain to lose Scotland | Politics | The … › Politics › Scottish independence
    13 Jun 2014 – Hillary Clinton: I would hate Britain to lose Scotland … is expected to run for president in 2016, told BBC2’s Newsnight: “I would hate to have you lose Scotland. I hope that it doesn’t happen but I don’t have a vote in Scotland.
    Scottish Independence: Hillary C

  84. cearc says:

    Also from Stu’s twitter,

    Hugo Rifkind, from No to Yes?

  85. Moira says:

    Campaign for Hillary, what a joke. FGS. you should all be pleased she’s over here. She’s lost in the cloud of lies and deception, just where she’ll remain, in a cloud! Total idiot.

  86. heedtracker says:

    She’s doing a Milliband, mooching around for that big state side Dave Milliband style job. The normal Milliband is close to Hillary so he’s got a fantastic job now.

    Further right you go in teamGB hackdom, the more convinced they are that,

    “David Miliband is expected to be appointed to a “top” US government position if Hillary Clinton becomes president in January 2017, it was reported on Thursday.

    The former Labour foreign secretary, who now works as president and CEO of the International Rescue Committee in New York, has told MP friends that Mrs Clinton would like to appoint him as a foreign diplomat – for the United States – The Sun reported.”


  87. robertknight says:

    Kezza helping Billary is about as productive as Peter Green helping a certain Glasgow-based fitba club with its finances.

    Does she have parental consent to leave the country? And can we get a say in whether she’s allowed back in?

  88. Arbroath1320 says:

    Better get all the popcorn and drink in that you can folks times are turning “interesting.”

  89. bjsalba says:

    @Capella at 30 October, 2016 at 11:30 am

    Having lived in the USA, I have to say that the BBC coverage of the USA Presidential election is pretty abysmal. When I first came back I used to cringe at some of the total drivel they were spouting. Now I am past caring.

    As for “covering” Europe, I have noticed they have started having more European items. Unfortunately they are following a predictable pattern. The are pretty well all EU-Baaad in one way or another.

    I don’t have/watch TV but I see on the BBC website doesn’t give the “full Donald”. On the following day as he promoted his golf course in Scotland he had this to say about Brexit.

    I think it’s going to end up being a great thing,
    and the beautiful, beautiful, beautiful thing is,
    your people have taken the country back
    and there is something very very nice about that.
    and they voted
    and it’s been peaceful
    and it was strong and very contentious
    and in many respects, I watched last night, a little bit ugly
    but it’s been an amazing process to watch.

    It would seem even more inarticulate and vacuous than May. If he is elected it will indeed be a very Special Relationship.

  90. heedtracker says:

    Heeeeeeeeeeeeeere’s Dougie!


    Westminster’s power players are finding sanctuary at Harvard
    A growing number of Westminster’s biggest personalities are finding sanctuary in a plum role at Harvard. Joy Lo Dico looks at the British exiles being reborn in the USA”


    “Douglas Alexander, the former shadow foreign secretary ejected from his Paisley seat in the last election by the SNP’s young scrapper Mhairi Black, has also been asked to give the students the benefit of his wisdom on the rise of populism in Europe and the risk of a possible Brexit. His title, a Fischer Family Fellow, now jostles on his CV with his latest project as sidekick to U2 frontman Bono in a new initiative to fight global poverty.”

    Westminster’s biggest personalities is pretty good. Never occured that Doogie had one, much more of BBC vote SLab Scotland construct, what everyone rejected at the first chance. Young scrapper Mhairi’s a solid toryboy slam but think about it, Doogie’s actually met Bono!!! Omg. Bet he struggles to not call him Bongo though.

  91. macnakamura says:

    Campaigning for Hillary is just a cover story.

    Having attended State Dept sponsored Training for Leadership course, she has had to go back to do a re-sit.

  92. heedtracker says:

    Having lived in the USA, I have to say that the BBC coverage of the USA Presidential election is pretty abysmal.

    Me too. It must be a very exciting experience for Kez and co though. With just the US security in action, US political stuff is incredibly different from the UK. When Hillary, Obama or Bush come to our town for election convention “hustings,” they take the biggest arenas, they shut down whole surrounding precincts, they close the main freeways from the airport and huge black limo cavalcades race downtown along empty streets, choppers overhead and huge cops on flashy motorbikes roar at drivers to stop, its all very exciting and spectacularly excluding. Its nice to think of Kez’s little wee facy peering out of a smoked window limo, at the plebs.

  93. Dr Jim says:

    News just in:

    Kezia Dugdale from the Labour supporting party group in Scotland which is a right of centre political organisation starts with us today to help out in our efforts to get Hillary elected
    so let’s give Kezia from Scotland a warm welcome to America and pass her those envelopes and let’s get em mailed kids

  94. Macart says:


    Seriously? Jings!

    Topping up on snacks and cheeky bottle top of to do list tomorrow if this is straight up. 🙂

  95. bjsalba says:


    I think Neo-Liberal colleges (particularly US ones) are the Rehabilitation Centres for all failed European Neo-Liberal Politicians.

    José Manuel Durão Barroso was teaching at Princeton between leaving the EU Commission and just recently taking up a post at Goldman Sachs.

  96. sinky says:

    On Politics Scotland, elitist Gordon Brewer didn’t seem to know that unlike in England colleges in Scotland run degree courses and are linked to getting into Uni.

    Degree Link allows students to have the best of both worlds, to study first at college, and then to complete a degree without any time loss. Typically, Degree Link is offered on a 2+2 basis – a two year HND at college, followed by two years at university. 1+3 routes, however, are also available for certain courses, where a HNC leads into the second year of university.

    Shirley Anne tried to correct him but he wasn’t for listening.

  97. sassenach says:

    The Brewster, as usual, was scraping around for anything to throw at the Scottish Government, and I found it hilarious that he was attempting to hold up England as his ideal, in educational terms.
    Fortunately Shirley Anne had the measure of him.

    And as for that anglicised Tory MSP….gie us a break!

  98. Memorygirl says:

    Its more likely that she was invited and an organisation / wealthy supporter is meeting all her costs.

    We should be able to find out when she registers her interests at Holyrood

  99. heedtracker says:

    bjsalba says:
    30 October, 2016 at 1:27 pm

    I think Neo-Liberal colleges (particularly US ones) are the Rehabilitation Centres for all failed European Neo-Liberal Politicians.”

    It looks that way. David Milliband’s probably the biggest star in the Labour cast over there, or at least he’s got the biggest job that must make SLab liggers like Doogie drool.

    Kez has Scottish leverage though. Hillary’s a massive NO vote for the UKOK freak show, according to the whole of UK media. So Kez can get stuck in with the Democrats, hammering vile seps without opposition, Trident will never be moved, North Atlantic will forever be England, Sturgeon very bad Hillary, oh she’s so very very bad.

    There is a huge big issue here. If as seems likely, gits like Doogie and Kez are monstering Scottish democracy over there, too lefty, too radical, causes defence instability, weakens greatest ally, possible losses of NATO nuke missile bases, its a not good thing/completely fine, if you’re a red and blue toryboy.

    But we can only guess. The great BBC lie machine keeps us in the dark and or hard right. BBC r4 lunchtime news, long vote NO, Brexit’s wonderful chat with Northern Ireland FM, FM Sturgeon the bad, PM Teresa the great, after her Brexit’s the greatest business opportunity ever speech yesterday, and all followed by Daily Record delight Torquil Crichton, taking a long hard weewee on Scottish democracy too. And its only half way through a planet toryboy Sunday.

  100. clipper says:

    Honestly who could care less what that useless idiot Dugdale thinks or says about anything? Bet the Yanks will be …. baffled… by her.

    Re Clinton I think that maybe some people have been subconsciously conditioned to think that Clinton is the “safer” option because she’s a woman and is from the “Democratic” party even if consciously they know that Clinton is extremely dangerous, a clear and present danger to the world. Of course Trump is a loose cannon but unlike Clinton “Wall Street’s favourite warmonger” he’s not come off the oligarchy’s conveyor belt. Of course it’s very possible that he’d immediately do an Obama and on the 9th of November start toeing the neocon line but the point is that you can’t be quite sure whereas with Clinton you know that we’re in trouble.

    According to the “polls” it’s all rednecks voting for Trump and younger more thoughtful types voting for Hitlery, also a lot of women stupid enough to believe that they’ll be in some mysterious way “empowered” by having a reptile, sorry a woman in the White House.

    Speaking of polls, funny how we keep getting all this 50/50 stuff all over the place. There are now serious doubts about the veracity and reliability of polls about important political matters. Check out this link, it’s 55 minutes long and not all about polls but some of it throughout is. All the oligarch owned US polls have Clinton ahead, who by an amazing coincidence is their favoured candidate.If this guy’s right and Trump does win by a significant margin then polls and pollsters will have been discredited to the point of irrelevance.

  101. yesindyref2 says:

    Can’t make out what Dugdale is up to, unless she’s given up on Scottish Labour and is looking for fresh fields to pasturise. Kind of thing.

  102. Jock McDonnell says:

    OT I see from the Sunday times that the Royal mint produces NZ dollars
    Just saying.

  103. Balaaargh says:

    Our friend Siobhan has a new article online at the Sunday express. JK has apparently released a whole bunch of tweets of abuse she gets.

    And then you get to the comments, which are just as bad as anything from the article.

  104. crazycat says:

    @ North Chiel at 12.22

    Wasn’t Kezia also in Yorkshire lately campaigning in the Bye election there??

    Yes. A by-election which the “main” parties chose not to contest, so that the Labour winner ended up with 85% of the votes cast, and all the other candidates (from fringe right-wing parties, mostly) lost their deposits.

    Why on earth did she bother? (At least she didn’t drive Labour into 3rd place there!)

  105. Truth says:

    Oh well, at least she can put it down as an “operational turnoaround” on her CV for when she loses her current day job.

  106. yesindyref2 says:

    Greenland as mentioned often for (reverse) Brexit stuff is an OCT (Overseas countries and territories) of the EU, here’s an interesting webpage I might work up into an article or addition:

    Nearly lost the thing as I bookmarked the wrong page first time 🙁

    It’d be funny if the rUK became an OCT of Scotland 😈

  107. It appears McColm et Al are going after the Health Service as a weak link of SNP policy, despite the fact that it outperforms all others in the UK, and despite the fact that patient and staff satisfaction surveys are at an all time high.

    I would know for a fact that the staff are getting pretty cheesed off at all this sniping.
    They are after all the ones who man it 24/7.

    Desperate tctics from desperate journos.

  108. mike cassidy says:

    Can I be the first on this site to say I don’t actually care who wins the American election.

    If its Clinton, same old, same old.

    If its Trump, same old, same old with added obsessive compulsive disorder.

  109. Brian Powell says:

    Kezia Dugdale CV:

    Leader? of a party where seats won fell from 38 to 24, 21 of those from the lists so not elected directly, and 17 of the 21 had been rejected by voters in the 2015 UK GE.

    Leader of a party in Scotland whose UK MPs and Scottish MSPs rejected any powers that would have improved Scotland’s position.

    Leader of a Party, who at a crucial time in her constituents lives, the Brexit crisis, leaves to campaign in another country.

    Employ me, nobody here wants me.

  110. Helena Brown says:

    Okay am I right, there has never been a socialist party in the United States? So what gives with these so called Socialists, Murphy, Broon, now Dugdale.
    Anyway just said to my friend over there she might as well vote for Donald.

  111. Graeme says:

    If Hilary Clinton wins the US election I can just see the Daily Record front page

    It was Kezia wot wun it



  112. mike cassidy says:

    Och, its a lazy Sunday afternoon.

    And some of those poor English folk are finding it hard to deal with reality.

  113. call me dave says:

    Iain Macwhirter:

    SNP should trust the public and raise taxes to safeguard the NHS

  114. Capella says:

    @ mike cassidy – me neither. Chomsky was right. The media just manipulate us to get us to accept the Neo-Cons appalling agendas. They’re not fussy about the means either.
    Thanks to Stu for providing some balance.

  115. Jock McDonnell says:

    @Mike Cassidy
    With a Trump victory, our opponent will be out in the open.

  116. Capella says:

    @ call me dave
    So Iain Macwhirter calling for tax increases to fund the SNHS. That is the Labour Party policy. So we should tax ourselves twice, once to pay for all the infrastructure projects Westminster decides on, then again to pay for our public services.
    Why not call for diverting money from BREXIT, Trident, Middle East wars and HS2? Even if it takes independence to do that?

  117. heedtracker says:

    Siobhan McFadyen ?@siobhanyc 2h2 hours ago
    For the record, I don’t mind if the person who is threatening to sue me threatens to sue me. In fact I’d welcome a lawyer’s letter.

    Every time you look. Her employers might not be so welcoming.

  118. yesindyref2 says:

    @mike cassidy
    It’s probably just Ed Balls practising for Hallowe’en Strictly.

  119. mike cassidy says:

    Helena Brown 2.15

    There has always been a left wing in the USA

    Currently reading Bryan Burroughs/Days Of Rage –

    a history of how some on the left transformed into the political bombers and bankrobbers of the seventies.

    and, if they survived, transformed back into the mainstream – sort of.

  120. louis.b.argyll says:

    The English school system produces Tory bum boys who fit perfectly into the way and the who and the how England wants to be ruled.

    The English people then just follow their orders.

  121. Ruby says:

    clipper says:
    30 October, 2016 at 1:55 pm

    Honestly who could care less what that useless idiot Dugdale thinks or says about anything?

    Ruby replies

    Definitely not me.

    Same applies to J K Rowling!

    Anything interesting happening today?

  122. Ruby says:

    heedtracker says:
    30 October, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    Siobhan McFadyen

    Ruby replies

    Another one I have no interest in. Likewise the woman who wrote the boring article about billboards on Common Space

    I think I might have to go and read the foreign press again today.

  123. Ruby says:

    call me dave says:
    30 October, 2016 at 2:23 pm

    Iain Macwhirter:

    SNP should trust the public and raise taxes to safeguard the NHS

    Ruby replies

    How about a rebate for people who keep themselves fit & healthy?

  124. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    McDuff says at 10:19 am

    I think Jim ‘Glue bag’ Murphy is also ‘state side ‘helping’ with US Election.

    Also a lot of Red Tories are Henry Jackson Society members

    ‘Glue bag’ is on the Political Council of the Henry Jackson Society described as “a cross-partisan, transatlantic think tank named in honour of Cold War anti-communist US Senator Henry M. Jackson.”

    “The society advocates an interventionist foreign policy by both non-military and military methods.”

  125. Meg merrilees says:

    Andy Murray just won Vienna Open. Woohop! only 915 points behind Djokovic now…

  126. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    call me dave says at 2:23 pm

    Iain Macwhirter says “SNP should trust the public and raise taxes to safeguard the NHS”

    So Macwhirter thinks the SNP should institute a BLiS policy roundly rejected by the Scottish electorate at the ballot box 5 Months ago?

    What next?

    Iain Macwhirter says “SNP should put a penny on income tax for education Wee Wullie stylie”

  127. yesindyref2 says:

    @Ruby: “How about a rebate for people who keep themselves fit & healthy?

    Ironically, where Labour, the Tories and McWhirter fall down is they’re concentrating on the NHS itself, rather than trying to create a better social society that reduces abuse, increases health and fitness, and therefore reduces the demands on the SNHS. Shuffle money around to priorities the NHS, increase the demand for it. Vicious circle.

    Surprised McWhirter couldn’t understand that, I didn’t bother commenting on his article, it wasn’t worth it.

  128. heedtracker says:

    Ruby says:
    30 October, 2016 at 2:45 pm
    heedtracker says:
    30 October, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    Siobhan McFadyen

    The issue is important on the basis of provocation alone. Behind this character, or above rather, sits a lot of liggers who know exactly what they’re doing. It goes way beyond selling ad space to carpet world and ryanair.

    Neo fascism in the UK is not pretty but it is one major aspect of UKOK politics.

  129. call me dave says:


    Watching murray… 🙂

    MacWhirter, he’s in a longish line of waiverers always with one finger up to see what way the winds blowing. But will probably vote YES.

    Sturgeon should always slip in a reference to the PFI costs for the SNHS and of course the pocket money we get on an annual basis as well as the need to run a balanced budget.

    It won’t eek out forever!

    With all that to contend with we need to wrestle the key off John Bull and take possession of car Alba because we’ve paid for it all a few times over.

    FGS! Murray I’ve no finger nails left.

  130. Dr Jim says:

    I think Ian McWhirter’s like one of these guys at a party when somebody gets annoyed at something, he’s the guy who says “Gonnae no argue coz you’re spoiling the party”

    He’s the, “kin we no jist aw agree” guy, we all know one and they end up being a pain to everybody because they’re such wimps

  131. Richardinho says:

    Am curious as to what the whole Daily Express defamation is all about. I read the article and I couldn’t find anything (deleted?).

    I would caution legal action against the ‘fragrant’ Ms. Rowling- even if you’re in the right. She has deep pockets, no doubt, and would love nothing better than to have WoS’s scalp.

  132. Ruby says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    30 October, 2016 at 9:58 am

    Almost 3,000 hits yesterday and piling on today!

    Read why Gibraltarians identify with Scotland, and are mad as hell at Brexit:

    Ruby replies
    Very interesting article.


    ‘We have never trusted Franco’s Spain. Never. Too many fascists still in power; pretending to be compassionate conservatives.’

  133. lumilumi says:

    My first thought on reading the tweets/article: WTF is a foreign national who doesn’t have a vote doing campaigning in an election in a foreign country?!? Let alone somebody in elected political office in their own country, so it’s not just a random guy.

    I’m very pro-Scottish independence but I don’t feel I have the right to campaign on it because I don’t have a vote on the matter. OK, some sporadic posts here and talking about Scotland’s situation to friends and family occasionally. (They now often ask me for more info/insights as they know I know a lot more about Scotland (and Brexit) that they could ever learn by following MSM in my country – so, thank you, WoS! 😀 )

    As to Kez. Maybe she’s just setting up her next career move. Isn’t the US where many failed Labour politicians go? To nurture that “special relationship”?

    Oh, and what about Kez’s day job? (snigger)

    And as to the US presidential election… It’s just terrible. As obnoxious and deluded and horrible as Trump is, he might actually be a better alternative for the rest of the world and my country. Timescales, unintended consequences… OK, I just boaked a little in my mouth. Ugh, I think I need a shower now.

  134. LMR says:

    Kez in NYC, McTernen in the swing state of North Carolina – what could possibly go wrong??

  135. Ruby says:

    heedtracker says:
    30 October, 2016 at 3:08 pm

    Ruby says:
    30 October, 2016 at 2:45 pm
    heedtracker says:
    30 October, 2016 at 2:38 pm

    Siobhan McFadyen

    The issue is important on the basis of provocation alone. Behind this character, or above rather, sits a lot of liggers who know exactly what they’re doing.

    Ruby replies

    When you say they know exactly what is they are doing?
    Do you think they are succeeding?

  136. Ruby says:


    Did my last post make sense? Probably not!

    I’ll try again

    What is it they are doing? When you say they know exactly what they are doing are you suggesting that they are succeeding?

  137. Grouse Beater says:

    Ruby: “Very interesting article.”

    An eye opener. Arrived expecting to meet true blue Brits sunning it on the Med, knotted handkerchiefs and all, oblivious of the rest of humanity, instead was confronted by a wave of rebellion. The comments published represent a tiny fraction of what they said.

  138. Cadogan Enright says:

    @sinky 1.29

    Correcting Brewster via a formal complaint is worth doing in this circumstance – as such mis-readings of fact can become viral in the unionist dominated media bubble

    I’d encourage you to phone in, as they do take requests for the person in question to be emailed on points of clear fact

  139. Tam Jardine says:

    The hypocrisy of the Express article is breathtaking. Below the line is great fun though and plenty of real frothing zoomers.

    I do get a sense that even the denizens BTL on the Express are getting tired of their Newspaper’s constant attacks on Nicola Sturgeon and Scottish Independence. Some of them are exasperated with it.

    I also notice fewer and fewer posts on the Scottish pages now.

  140. Ruby says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    30 October, 2016 at 3:35 pm

    Ruby: “Very interesting article.”

    An eye opener. Arrived expecting to meet true blue Brits sunning it on the Med, knotted handkerchiefs and all, oblivious of the rest of humanity,

    Ruby replies

    Travelling to other countries really does open your eyes it’s the best education you can get! Shame that the young people of the RUK are going to find it difficult to travel & work in other European countries.

  141. Jack Murphy says:

    So Labour’s Kezia Dugdale is off to support Clinton.

    “I would hate to have you lose Scotland,” said Clinton” on the BBC’s Newsnight and ALSO in the same week she said the same on the 7pm BBC1 One Show with a shrug of the shoulders—-I watched her in disbelief!

    Pre-Scottish Independence Referendum,Reuters quoted Clinton in 2014:-

    Dugdale should be ashamed of herself.
    Dugdale returning the ‘favour’.

    Labour? Never again.

  142. heedtracker says:

    Ruby replies

    When you say they know exactly what is they are doing?
    Do you think they are succeeding?

    Yes I do. If it was me as Express, torygraph, BBC etc boss, hard core conservative, working hard for even harder core filthy rich tax dodger cons, party funders, BetterTogether funders, I’d be able to see that just under half of Scotland wants Scotland to run Scotland.

    And that at least a third of Scotland wants the opposite and worse. So its that 10-20% Scots vote in the middle that all of this UKOK media nightmare is focused on, keep them low info-ed and scared.

    Its why its a blanket UK tory media anti Scottish democracy monstering across the whole of the UK too, from the awful hypocrites at Graun towers, via Press and Journalese toryness, to Broadcasting House, (£1.5 bn new build.) If democracy breaks out in their Scotland region, its only going to spread.

    SLabour know this and its them really paying the ultimate price, probable end of era oblivion in Scotland. Its not merely Scotland’s progress towards independence that’s sunk the red tories, much more fundamentally it’s Scottish democracy producing a realistic alternative to whatever it is New Labour red tory-ism actually is.

    And Kez knows it. So she’s getting ready to bail. She’s got a so so law degree, lots of media training, a lovely gentle BBC Scotland sales pitch and there are clearly a lot of great jobs going for red tories like Kez in America especially. Which is why she’s using her list slot at Holyrood to hike her profile way up, while the UKOK hiking’s good.

    Short version:D

    Yes they are succeeding but they’re peeing up against the tide of Scottish history, if history is tidal.

  143. stonefaction says:

    I think Kez’s day job is “do what you are told”. I suspect she has been told to “stay out of the way”. Job done.

  144. robertknight says:

    Siobhan McFadyen ?@siobhanyc 2h2 hours ago
    For the record, I don’t mind if the person who is threatening to sue me threatens to sue me. In fact I’d welcome a lawyer’s letter.

    So looking at the above, and looking at the article, SM/Express slings mud but is too afraid to actually NAME the individual which WE ALL KNOW is being referred to.

    How brave! How courageous! How typical of the gutter press!

  145. Craig Murray says:

    The common cause with Gibraltar over Brexit thing is a blind alley.

    We should dump Gibraltar. A British imperial anachronism, it should go back to Spain. There is no right to self determination to function as a tax haven and money-laundering base.

    Stating plainly that an Independent Scotland will support the return to Spain of Gibraltar will help ease any remaining political tensions with Spain.

  146. Ruby says:

    ‘We have never trusted Franco’s Spain. Never. Too many fascists still in power; pretending to be compassionate conservatives.’

    I would imagine there are a lot of people in Spain who share this opinion. Where did all the Spanish fascist go?

    Do we here in the UK have too many fascists in power pretending to be ‘compassionate conservative’ or are the fascist that are in power recognised for what they are?

  147. Robert Peffers says:

    @Hamish100 says: 30 October, 2016 at 8:46 am:

    ” … Funny he has said so many times he is a Celt or is it Selt?”

    Aye! Mibbies a Celt, (Selt), they are jist an Irish fitba team but certainly not a Celt, (Kelt), the correct pronunciation of a person of Celtic descent.

  148. heedtracker says:

    He saved the UK and now it his turn, arise Lord Farage. Lord Flipper got one for saving the UK, so its only fair. Hundreds more Lords, 50-60 less MP’s. Its the planet toryboy way.

    BBC Politics
    44 mins ·
    “It would be a great idea. UKIP should have been given more peerages. David Cameron obviously had a visceral hatred of us, and we were never awarded one. Maybe now with Theresa May in the seat, we may well get peerages, and if we do get peerages then Nigel Farage should be the first on the list.”

  149. Grouse Beater says:

    Craig Murray: “Stating plainly that an Independent Scotland will support the return to Spain of Gibraltar will help ease any remaining political tensions with Spain.”

    I believe originally Spain was offered some islands or Gibraltar and took Minorca. In time it will become Spanish territory, only let’s be sure the fascists are unable to rise again and it’s a benign Spain. And, of course, that we are in a position of influence – at that proverbial ‘top table’ we keep hearing about.

  150. mike cassidy says:

    Och, its still a lazy Sunday afternoon

    and I almost had a whiff of sympathy for the BBC

    God don’t save the queen!

  151. Ruby says:

    ‘In July 2001, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw began discussing the future of Gibraltar with Spain,and a year later, in July 2002, following secret talks with Spain announced that “the UK was willing to share sovereignty of Gibraltar with Spain” and that “the final decision would rest with the people of Gibraltar in a referendum.

    The Government of Gibraltar then decided to hold its own referendum on the 7th November 2002 regarding the proposal of shared sovereignty with Spain, which it strongly opposed. This pre-empted any referendum planned to be held after the negotiations between the UK and Spain had concluded. Jack Straw described the Gibraltar referendum as “eccentric”, and the UK’s Foreign Office announced it would not recognize its results.’

    I wonder what the results of the referendum would be if held today?

  152. frogesque says:

    O/t but pertinant.

    On another forum there is a ‘lively’ debate re Brexit. Most posters English.

    What is very obvious is that rights, wrongs, good or bad do not figure. Its almost all about the economy and whether the purse will be fatter or the wallts thinner post Art50.

    There is some debate around immigration but as somebody once said, “It’s all about the economy!”

    This I feel will be the core of the debate round IRef2. We have to get it right and get the message out.

  153. Mark Russell says:

    Clever lass. No doubt hoping her support will reap dividends and provide her with a non-descript consultancy and beach condo when she finally realises her global ambitions, just like Dr Brown.

  154. Robert Peffers says:

    @schrodingers cat says: 30 October, 2016 at 9:28 am:

    “ewan macgregor moving from no to yes cos of brexit”

    Ewan Macgregor? Who he?

    Important political figure is he? Someone we should all pay attention to perhaps? How come I never heard of him in political circles before?

    Oh! Wait up – isn’t there a guy who thinks he’s an actor or something? Nah! That was Katherine McGregor who played Mrs Olsen in Little House on the Prairie and she was really a very good actress.

  155. louis.b.argyll says:

    Jock McDonnell says: 1:57 pm

    OT I see from the Sunday times that the Royal mint produces NZ dollars
    Just saying.

    Really? The same country that Scotland shares a queen with?

  156. I just hope for Hillary’s sake that McTernan does not decide to “help out” as well.

  157. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Robert Peffers Ah think its that get on yer motorbike Ewan McGregor.

  158. Robert Peffers says:

    @Arbroath1320 says: 30 October, 2016 at 1:02 pm:

    “Better get all the popcorn and drink in that you can folks times are turning “interesting.”

    Here’s the background music to go with the popcorn and booze :[

  159. Patience is a Virtue says:

    I do hope Kezia is keeping an accurate record of her expenses and can/will account to the Scottish Parliament on her return for this apparent jolly to the US to ‘campaign for Hillary’ (I would have thought on her to do list that there were a few things that required fixing as a priority in the Labour Party first)!

    IndyRef2 is simply about ‘who decides’ – whilst the latest EU debacle is important, it is just the most recent (and obvious) example of where the whole of Scotland (indeed every Constituency) voted in a particular way, in this case to Remain in the EU, but was outvoted by the greater proportion (an electorate/representation at Westminster exceding Scotland’s by approx ten to one) of voters down south/rUK who, for whatever reason, wished to Leave the EU.

    Clearly Scotland did not wish to leave the EU (rather, the majority did not – a significant minority also had reason to vote Leave, no doubt the EU common agricultural policy and fisheries policy over the last 40 years playing a significant part in at least some of this disgruntlement with the EU – and control/influence of Scotland’s agriculture and fishing indusry is clearly an item for the Scottish government to address in the months ahead.

    But overall it is the inflexibility within the Union (i.e. the ability by Scotland) to be able control any of this, that is the core issue for Scotland.

    The Union is unfit for the democratic era and the recent EU vote clearly illstrates this, unless of course you feel it reasonable to be outvoted by 10:1 is perfectly ok, if you prefer the latter then I suppose you opt (forever) to be treated simply as a county of England controlled by Westminster (certainly that is how it currently appears).

    Let’s suppose for a moment that Scotland is indeed dragged in a partular direction over this current EU issue. When the ‘next’ issue comes along and Scotland votes in its entirety against it (and rUK vote for it), lets say over the issue of having a written Constitution written by the Conservative Party – where you have the ‘right’ to a zero hours contract, no protection under EU law, many if not most of UK Health and Safety law repealed, (and who is to stop it), a right/’expectation’ to work (whether you are able to or not) and a right to retire at 75, will Scotland’s vote matter? perhaps Independence offers a better, perhaps the only option.

    All it takes is an X in a box to vote for Independence. If another opportunity arises, it may indeed be the best (and only) option and put an end to this democratic deficit.

  160. Jock McDonnell says:

    Yup, The very same, amazing isn’t it what a little co-operation & good will can achieve. Little New Zealand, fewer people than Scotland, with its own currency, manufactured under agreement with the Royal Mint in Wales.
    Probably find there are several other currencies produced there too.

  161. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Mike Cassidy Noo who is that listener Mary Whitehouse, the Rev’s missing ah trick here.

  162. schrodingers cat says:

    ewan macgregor
    the only significant actor who supported no in 2014

    another no changing from no 2 yes after brexit

    true, not an important figure, but another indication of a trend in the population in general

  163. But whit aboot that wee mannie who has to wait 7 months for a hospital appointment. You may recall last Thursday’s FMQ when the red blue and Yellow Tories, plus that ‘if you can’t be a good example be a dire warning’ picture of health Jackie Baillie ganged up on the FM because Scottish Health workers are shite at their jobs. And it’s all Nicola Sturgeon’s fault. She should be recruiting more doctors, managing waiting lists, and swabbing hospital floors in the fight against MRSA and Ecoli, personally, because that’s what the Red Blue and Yellow Tories would be doing?
    I believe the alleged victim of SHS sloppiness lives in Neil Findlay’s neck of the woods. Has he been beating down the door of the Chief Exec of Lothian Health Board demanding answers?
    The Unionist Politicians think that our NHS staff are crap?
    Dugdale in the States? She’s no different to the rest of the So Called Labour Party in Scotland.
    They all have had wee jollies to America; networking for future nice wee earners.
    BTW will the Speaker dock her wages and issue a wriiten warning because she is dogging her work, and not doing the day job?
    This lass is seriously flawed, politically, intellectually, and socially.
    Will she be jetting all over the world supporting Left Wing Neo Con candidates in German, French, Italian, Brazilian elections? No.
    A gravy trainer, US erse licker of the Old Tony Blair New Labour Tradition.
    There are dollars to be made.
    Roll on LA elections in May.

  164. Skip_NC says:

    DerekM @ 9:22, one of them does not have to win. There are three other “respectable” candidates on several state ballots. Jill Stein (Green) will – unfortunately in my view – probably not win any electoral college votes. Gary Johnson may spring a surprise in some of the western states or, at least, may stop Trump from taking them.

    The big unknown, though, is Evan McMullin. If he can actually win electoral college votes, he could stop both Trump and Clinton from getting an electoral college majority. That would turn the election of president over to the House of Representatives. They may decide to elect McMullin, on the basis that Trump isn’t a true conservative (the chances of HRC getting elected in a Republican-dominated house are either slim or none – oops, slim just left).

    I do not think it is impossible that we will have McMullin and Pence getting sworn in on January 20th. At this stage though, I would not put any money on any outcome in this contest.

  165. ian murray says:

    There could be no worse choice for President than Hillary Clinton
    Bill and Hillary are so corrupt if they made it into a movie the critics would say it was too unbelievable.
    From the early days in Arkansas where witnesses and people who appear to know too much end up murdered, suicided or blown up in airplanes.It is apparent that that Clintons were involved in drug running and just like any well organized drug operation problems are eliminated
    Take a look at this link a pinch of salt or a bucket of salt
    The number of people who die around the Clintons is pretty incredible

  166. Graeme McCormick says:

    So that’s why the FBI have gone public.

  167. mike cassidy says:

    In case anyone comes back to this thread –

    Mr. Evan McMullin has upset Mr Trump.

  168. ian murray says:

    The FBI investigated Hillary and her email server and had about 5 specific cases when she lied and a number where she destroyed evidence but they said they would not prosecute.The US Attorney General met with Bill Clinton at a meeting where their 2 planes were on the tarmac Bill was there to play golf and she was there for something 45 minutes later having talked about grandchildren golf and nothing about Hillarys’ investigation they left (Bill never did play any golf)The Attorney General said she would accept the decision on the investigation.The FBI investigator their #2 guy His wife received $675,000 from the Governor of Virginia a very close friend of the Clintons a long shot for a run for a senate seat.Hillary Clinton actually fund raised for the woman.
    A separate FBI investigation into child pornograhy appears to have found thousands of emails that Hillary claimed the FBI already had
    Huma Abadin is Hillarys closest advisor,she is estranged from Anthony Weiner a former Senator and general scuz ball he was found sexting with a 15 year old and that investigation appears to have uncovered the new information as it was on a shared computer, go figure. Huma had told the FBI that she had turned overall devices that might contain classified emails so she appears to be in a jam The file on the computer where the emails were found was titled “Life Insurance”

  169. mike d says:

    If it does all kick off, i just hope putins missiles strike first on London and the south of England i’ll die happy knowing these barstewards are coming with me.

  170. Effijy says:

    Kezia, The Dippy Dug has been writing to try and support the Hilary Clinton Campaign in America:

    6 Bacon Rolls
    4 Square Sausage
    2 Links
    8 Coffees

    This will be the last function Dippy does for a Hilary!
    She forgot to get the Milk.

    She only got the job because she mention being a Milk Monitor at Secondary School in her CV.

  171. yesindyref2 says:

    @mike d
    Less of that please. Completely less.

  172. gus1940 says:

    Our wonderful unbiased media seem to be strangely reluctant to mention Dugdale’s trip across the pond.

  173. Skip_NC says:

    Mike Cassidy, aye, I had seen that. Typical modern journalism, though. They lifted most of that from Politico. In some places it’s word for word.

    I see that lovable rogue McTernan is in NC. I’m going to do an AP and call North Carolina’s fifteen electoral votes for Trump. Or is he actually working for the candidate that reflects his real political views? In which case, Trump is toast.

  174. Greannach says:

    Ms Dugdale’s back at band camp, I see. The triangle can be a tricky instrument to master.

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