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The worst-laid plans

Posted on November 10, 2018 by

Your occasional reminder about who’s been governing us since we refused to take the responsibility for it ourselves.

To be quite honest, readers, if we’re going to leave our future in the hands of a Fox, we’d probably be better off with Basil Brush.

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    1. 10 11 18 13:56

      The worst-laid plans | speymouth

    225 to “The worst-laid plans”

    1. Albert Herring says:

      Boom boom!

    2. Hamish100 says:

      Whats he doing with his tongue?

    3. galamcennalath says:

      Fox by name, snake-in-the-grass by nature!

    4. Dan Huil says:

      Fox’s Glacial Hints.

    5. alasdair galloway says:

      Biting it. Probably should do it more often!

    6. Chick McGregor says:

      Wad some power the Giftie gie them tae see thirsels as ither’s see them.

    7. manandboy says:

      Liam Fox, ambitious and brainwashed in equal measure, but politically incompetent and without any noticeable talent. A very grey Tory.

    8. Mogabee says:

      Yep. Basil Brush for PM, let’s start the rumour. 😀 😀

    9. Bob Mack says:

      Seldom in the field of human negotiation
      Has so little been gained by so few against so many.

      This is like giving your five year old a Ferrari for Christmas and setting them loose on the M6.

      Just had survey at the door regarding the people’s vote.
      Filled in the form which also asked which party would I trust to deal with all these factors.
      Labour.Tory.Lib Dem,
      GREEN OR other. I guess SNP is other category now.

    10. Millsy says:

      …but countries are lining up to make trade deals with the UK …Saudi Arabia ( more weapons , please ) , Yemen ( more bombs , please , Indonesia ( more anti-personnel weapons , please ) , …….

    11. geeo says:

      To be fair, trade negotiations WILL be straightforward.

      WM: “high, we want x y z from you and give nothing in return”

      EU: “Non”.

      WM: “bugger”.

      EU: “Have a nice life”.

    12. geeo says:

      *hi, not high…jeezo !

    13. Big Bill says:

      Thank god he’s not still working as a GP. Last year he told you you were fine, now he tells you it’s bad but not that bad you’ll just lose a few limbs.What a relief, thank you doctor.

    14. Cubby says:

      If Fox had any professional or personal integrity he would have resigned from the UK cabinet a long time ago. A perfect example of the Scot Britnat human disaster we have to endure in Scotland.

      A Britnat Tory with nothing but arrogant ” I’m British so these Johnny foreigners will do what there told if they know whats best for them – We won two world wars you know” attitude with limited talent.

      Other than tell lies – par for the course for Britnats but a speciality for Britnat Brexit Tories – what has this guy actually been doing for the last 2 years.

      Scotland being governed by Britnats from London will always be disastrous for Scotland but it takes the Britnat Brexiteer fanatic Tories to take it to a whole new level. People in Scotland who accept this willingly are most definitely suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

    15. Brian McHugh says:

      All I can say is “For Fox sake”

    16. Ian Mccubbin says:

      I would go with dick dastardly. Lol

    17. Phronesis says:

      It’s a toxic mix- the collective hubris of political incompetency as UKOK heads towards a cliff edge.Brexit has backfired and meanwhile domestic policy increases the inequality gap. Where America goes UKOK blindly follows.
      Scotland is the voice of calm and reason in this debacle..UKOK would do very well to listen.

      ‘Far from settling the question of the United Kingdom’s future, the 2016 Brexit referendum and subsequent negotiations with the European Union have triggered a full-blown identity crisis and culture war in Britain. Two years after the UK electorate voted by 52% to 48% to withdraw from the EU, it is safe to say that former Prime Minister David Cameron’s ploy to settle a long-running niche debate within the Conservative Party has backfired spectacularly’

      https://www.socialeurope.eu/the-brexitization-of-european-politics

      Stiglitz: “money influences politics… converting higher economic inequality into greater political inequality. Political inequality, in its turn, gives rise to more economic inequality as the rich use their political power to shape the rules of the game in ways that favor them”

      RESTORING JUSTICE
      Morale is lower in unequal societies, especially when inequality is seen as unjust, and the feeling of being used or cheated leads to lower productivity. When those who run gambling casinos or bankers suffering from moral turpitude make a zillion times more than the scientists and inventors who brought us lasers, transistors and an understanding of DNA, it is clear that something is wrong. Then again, the children of the rich come to think of themselves as a class apart, entitled to their good fortune, and accordingly more likely to break the rules necessary for making society function. All of this contributes to a breakdown of trust, with its attendant impact on social cohesion and economic performance’

      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-american-economy-is-rigged/

    18. Thepnr says:

      Everybody knows about the Brexit ceal being the “easiest in history” and yet just today:

      “Mr Fox also admitted that the UK had not even started to discuss the details of its future trade agreement with Europe.”

      http://archive.fo/4183A

      He’s Trade Secretary as well FFS. What a Walloper!

      But he’s just one of many in a cabinet full of Wallopers!

    19. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      I have never been a Tory, have hated labour since the 80s.

      Always thought the barely articulate Labour politicians were corrupt and incompetent.

      Always known the Tories were corrupt, but secretly thought they were competent in a self serving corrupt sort of way.

      I reasoned many were senior business types and could count without the use of their fingers and toes.

      So I was completely wrong about the Tories, granted they are corrupt, but they are off the scale stupid and incompetent.

      They may be stupid and incompetent but what does that say about the people who vote for them?

    20. galamcennalath says:

      Fundamental question – has anyone who is pro Brexit ever told the truth about what leaving the EU actually entails and is likely to mean?

      The entire project is based on lies, and then more lies are built in top of lies. Fox is in there up to his neck in the deceit.

      It’s easy, a bright future awaits, the Empire will rally again, it will cost nothing, it will free up EU payments, immigration can be reduced, trade deals can be made everywhere, take control again, the single market will be still fully accessible … the Irish border isn’t an issue, the Good Friday Agreement no longer matter! The UK can have all the good bits of the EU relationship, and none which come with responsibilities. NONE of that will happen if Brexit proceeds.

      Well … looks like the liars are about to be found out big time.

    21. Thepnr says:

      Fox is a fantasist as are most rapid Brexiteers, their entire outlook is based of the fantasy that GB is still a power on the worlds stage. Their favourite newspapers are the Mail and the Express so what does that tell you?

      Here’s a headline from the Express this morning:

      BREXIT BOOST: Sierra Leone President pledges to ‘REV UP’ post-Brexit trade deal with UK

      How much of a boost might that be to UK trade? well the Express reveals later on what cuuent trade is worth.

      This year, Britain has exported around £20million to Sierra Leone and imported around £1million from the Sub Saharan state.

      A “BREXIT BOOST” then LOL, the UK imports/exports around £700 billions worth of goods and services every year. This “BREXIT BOOST” wouldn’t fill a single truck, pure despair!

    22. galamcennalath says:

      Phronesis says:

      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-american-economy-is-rigged/

      What a thoroughly depressing read! Thanks, sort of 🙂

      That is exactly the type of society Fox, and Yankiephiles like him, want for the UK.

      Unregulated market driven capitalism simply doesn’t work on a human level, the USA being the perfect example of the disaster it delivers.

      We mock Fox, but he has the potential to be extremely dangerous. His dreams are everyone else’s nightmares.

    23. Bob Mack says:

      Sources close to Mueller report say Donald Trump Jnr faces imminent arrest. Oh dear. Trade deal from Donald ? Maybe not.

    24. Iain mhor says:

      Just recently visited Ayr toon, not been there for years.
      “Desolate” is the word, I’ve not seen anything like it even after recent Eastern European travels.
      “This is fine, think I’ll vote Union again”
      I unfortunately, however hard I try, will never get my head around it. Unfortunately, because if I could, I may have some common ground for dialogue. I know now I have none.
      It’s not that Ayr is unique in looking soviet in Scotland, it’s the high percentage of Unionist/Tory voters in the Burgh. What do they tell themselves is the problem I wonder.

      Quote” Ayr is one of the largest retail centres in the South of Scotland and was recognised as the second healthiest town centre in the United Kingdom by the Royal Society for Public Health in 2014″ – Wiki.

      Desolation = Nice divident for voting “Naw”
      Brexit will sort all that out though eh?

    25. Macart says:

      Mr Fox … (sigh)

      Put your trust in Conservatives at your peril.

      Just sayin’.

    26. jfngw says:

      The irony is, no matter how bad Brexit is I somehow suspect that Fox and his ilk will still be laughing all the way to the bank. If we don’t get out of this union the last laugh will be on all of us, and you will be watching the smirking Fox for years to come. He might well be saying ‘boom, boom’, to us.

    27. Bobp says:

      Iain mhor, yes im up there on sunday visiting family as thats my original neck of the woods. And you described Ayr in one there. When i see the state of it compared to what it was once like, i come away thinking “what is the f*****g mentality of these people who seem quite happy to accept their lot. I reckon they blame those baaad snp for it, the fact that its london tory austerity measures doesnt even enter their tiny unionist/loyalist pea brained heads.

    28. Proud Cybernat says:

      Fox’s face in second image looks pretty Torn. Didn’t he once go out with a Nat?

    29. Thepnr says:

      You’ve got to ask whether the likes of Fox, Rees-Mogg and Johnson actually even thought once what effect a no deal Brexit might have on the UK.

      Not just in terms of trade and general al round well being but on the possible hugely negative effects of what no deal means.

      Hospital food at risk from no-deal Brexit

      Hospitals could run out of much of the imported food that goes into millions of patient meals in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the Department of Health and Social Care has admitted in a letter to all NHS trusts in England…

      The Observer understands planning is also under way to prepare organisations that provide meals to schools, prisons and care homes.

      http://archive.fo/14pie

      Someone I don’t believe they did think it through, did they?

    30. Richard Hunter says:

      Proof that the Tories reputation for competence (which really is a thing for some people) is largely manufactured and undeserved.

    31. galamcennalath says:

      jfngw says:

      Fox and his ilk will still be laughing all the way to the bank

      Indeed. The different styles of Brexit only vary by how much the bad guys manage to make out of it.

      And make no mistake, they are bad people who do not have the interests of the wider population in mind.

    32. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Hamish100 at 12:30 pm.

      You asked,
      “Whats he doing with his tongue?”

      You’ll find the answer at 34 seconds onward in this video:-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaJPOVGlEPs

    33. Auld Rock says:

      And here’s me thinking we were governed by the DUP????

    34. Capella says:

      I blame privatisation and outsourcing. There was a time when everything was run by Civil Servants who do have a good education and training and a graded career structure so that you could expect those who get to the top to be bright and competent.

      But New Labour didn’t trust the civil service and hired PR and accountancy firms to advise on policy. Patricia Hewitt, Health Secretary, came from Arthur Anderson (now Accenture) who specialise in outsourcing.

      So idiots like Liam Fox get to swan around making policy decisions which are ludicrous. At least the MoD reigns in spoilt brat Gavin Williamson. Damage limitation is the most anyone can hope for now.

    35. Clapper57 says:

      Fox …..one of many in the Tag Team of Tory Tits who champion Brexshit… Never-Ever-Trust-A-Tory….especially the ‘Scottish’ ones at WM who are conspicuous sycophants to their English masters at WM and who regularly act against the interests of the majority of their fellow Scots…..all to ensure that the will of the privileged few who live among us continue to thrive and increase their wealth.

      Fox …Mundell…Costa…Gove…..and not forgetting all of the newly elected Tories from Scottish constituencies who actively promote, in Brexshit , the “wealthy” fishing families who control nay hoard much of the fishing rights within UKOK …..all self serving pseudo Scots.

      Then there is the HOL pseudo Scots who are very much also “honorary anglicised” members of the Tag Team of Tory Tits with benefits… Forsyth…Lang…Mone….

      Follow the money…….

    36. Tom says:

      A few weeks ago I played a silly card game based on Cthulhu where you have to beat Cthulhu monsters and I thought a Brexit version where you have to beat Brexiteers might work (by baking cakes with cherries and fudge) and other fun stuff.

      The rules and cards are in a pdf so if there’s a way of posting a pdf to this site, I’ll put it up and you can all have fun playing it with your favourite Brexiteer.

      Well, you either have to laugh or cry.

    37. Ken500 says:

      What a bunch of psycho bastards. How low can they go?

      Another fine mess.

    38. Artyhetty says:

      Criminals at the helm.

      Scotland is screwed if she stays shackled to rUK for much longer. No future for your kids or grandkids, their prospects are not good as it is. Labour, red Tories, Tories and their dodgy pals, what the heck have they ever done for Scotland, nothing what.so.ever.

      They have though, especially the Britnats, stolen Scotland’s resources and revenues and laughed all the way to the bank, ‘ha ha ha!! poor subsidy junkie Scots lolz’.

      Keep voting Labour they will reverse the SNP ‘destruction of public services and their vanity project PFI schemes, oh wait, that was us, oh well nevermind’!

      OBFA? that’s just the freaking start!

      ‘Mega SALE, starts 11pm, 29th March 2019, queue now for Scotland’s resources! When it’s gone, it’s gone!’ LOlz.

    39. Scottish Steve says:

      Ah, the glories of being under Westminster rule. Thanks, No voters.

    40. yesindyref2 says:

      Good game with Fiji, they’re 10th in world, Scotland 7th from 6th after losing to Wales last week and swapping with Australia. All to play for, that swap would reswap on a win.

    41. Breeks says:

      OT…. TV advert regulators bad Iceland (the shop) advert about Palm Oil.

      https://www.euronews.com/2018/11/10/iceland-palm-oil-advert-petition-launched-for-ban-to-be-overturned

      The reason cited is that it’s overtly political.

      Courageous is the word I’d use. Well done Iceland.

    42. manandboy says:

      I’m weary of living in a British Colony.

      I want to live in an independent Scotland.

      ASAP.

    43. Bill says:

      Normally qualifying as a doctor denotes a certain level of intelligence. In his case it seems it proved he can pass exams but he has succeeded in passing with no intelligence and no common sense. Or perhaps he is just a cunt.

    44. galamcennalath says:

      Artyhetty says:

      Criminals at the helm.

      They should be rounded up as criminals IMO!

      Imagine a situation where a company sold a product by telling a pack of lies. When customers complained they just shrugged their shoulders and pocketed the dosh.

      Or (as Alan Sugar pointed out recently) directors of a company told a pack of lies to shareholders about how the company was performing badly.

      People go to jail for acting like this in the real world!

      So why is lying to voters accepted? Not talking about misunderstanding, or not being in possession of the facts … ie plausible excuses … talking about blantantly and knowingly lying purely for gain of power or money for their sponsors, party or self.

      The courts have said it’s OK to lie to voters, as long as it’s political.

      The counter argument would be that voters can reject candidates who try to deceive or have in the past. However, that needs an informed electorate and a balanced media holding politicians to account. In the UK there is conspiracy to maintain the opposite!

      There must be a better way of doing politics. How about independence for Scotland?

    45. twathater says:

      Manandboy @3.52PM
      I’m weary of living in a Brutish colony governed by imbecilic red and blue tolies

      I want to live in an independent Scotland with VAST natural resources.

      ASAP Nicola

      Fixed it manandboy

    46. Tom says:

      @Breeks – I agree the Iceland advert is stunning.

    47. yesindyref2 says:

      Tremendous stuff, what’s great is there are young players and new caps, and they can be there for years. A lot of credit could be given to Vern Cotter for getting the players through.

    48. Collie says:

      Who gives a fuck about the No Voting bastards of Scottish Rugby?

    49. Davie Oga says:

      What I find astounding as much as the imbecilic and mendacious behaviour of May’s government is the total failure of the media to hold them to account. When the EU rejects Chequers outright, we had weeks of analysis implying that its a visble option if only the cabinet could agree. Same with an extension to negotiations-a complete none starter with the EU. The fat lady is about to sing Rule Britannia for the last time and these arrogant, hubristic, bastards can’t even see it coming. It would be hilarious if it were’t so tragic for the ordinary people of these islands.

    50. Hamish100 says:

      Brian Doonthetoon@1234

      Cheers!

    51. Robert Louis says:

      what really stands out from the past two years of utter shambolic nonsense by all in Westminster (Labour and Tory), is just how truly shockingly ill-informed most of the MP’s and cabinet ministers are, regarding just how the UK works on a daily basis. It seems that the fact that hug quantities of inward trade comes via the port of Dover has come as a shock to many of them, and that having NO trade agreement with the EU will mean, food shortages and medicine shortages which can not be easily remedied.

      I am no fan of Westminster and the scum class who inhabit it, but even I am astonished at their lack of knowledge of the nation which they claim to rule.

      Time and again, we have seen Westminster and UK Government bods, completely flummoxed by simple concepts such as the good friday agreement or even the simple harsh reality that the EU actually owes the UK nothing and will likely lose no sleep over the UK’s downfall post brexit. Indeed, I envisage that post brexit, when the food runs out, we might very well hear the sound drifting over the English channel, of a very slow handclap from Brussels.

      Englland right now is an utter f***ing mess, both politically and economically. Barely a day goes by when we do not hear of further economic damage from this brexit madness, and above it all, the westminster clowns scurry from TV studio to TV studio defending the stupidity of breexit by saying ‘brexit means brexit’.

      It is truly hard to believe just how grotesquely incompetent and foolhardy the residents of Westminster and Downing street have become. Yet still they charge on into the a grand finale, for which we now have the very first post-war food supplies minister.

      It is just shocking. It really is, and yet despite it all, the English arrogance and pig-ignorant superiority carries on. I do not doubt the day after the disaster of the cliff edge brexit, whilst the queues form for fresh bread, we will hear the usual talking heads in London, telling us, ‘well, we might have no food, no friends and no medicines, but at least we’re not in the EU’. Three cheers for ‘Britin’ Hip, hip, hip, hoorah.’

      Utterly utterly insane. Call the referendum, Nicola, or declare UDI and get us out of this f*ck up.

    52. galamcennalath says:

      @Breeks

      Re Iceland

      What’s political about that? Are they justifying censorship to protect large corporations and allow them to pillage at will on the basis that to call them out is political? Has it become political to act responsibly towards the environment?

      Stopping that excellent message seems very shady to me!

    53. Simon Curran says:

      Collie says
      Great result for Scotland after a shaky first half. Yes some players from the past have tarnished their reputation by coming out in favour of this distributed kingdom but the players or supporters today, who knows?

    54. galamcennalath says:

      Davie Oga says:

      total failure of the media to hold them to account

      Agreed. An effective independent balanced media would tear poor government and deceitful politicians to shreds. In a real democracy, these chancers would never wield power for long.

      The compliance of the media in this Brexit fiasco has been astonishing.

      There’s that good advice to the media – if one guys says it’s raining and another says it’s dry, the job of media isn’t to report both sides, their job should be to look out the window and see who’s lying!

      Truth is, it’s been even worse than that. They have continued to run with the Tory line long after it’s been sunk. To continue the analogy – the media definitely know it’s raining but continue to report it’s sunny.

    55. Legerwood says:

      Robert Louis says:
      10 November, 2018 at 5:14 pm
      “”what really stands out from the past two years of utter shambolic nonsense by all in Westminster (Labour and Tory), is just how truly shockingly ill-informed most of the MP’s and cabinet ministers are, …””

      Aye, but spare a thought for the poor civil servant that had the job of telling them Britain was an island! That was a real surprise for some of them.

    56. art1001 says:

      I just want independence for Scotland.

      Lets just pass a motion in the Scottish Parliament to terminate the Treaty Of Union in the event of this Brexit nonsense and vote on it. I think we have had enough.

      The stakes with Brexshit are too high for the people. We then start immediately operating as an independent country. I don’t think London will notice far less try and send the tanks in. The world will side with us. At least no more disgusting UK Border signs when we fly into Edinburgh airport.

      If the Scottish people want to restore the Union then they can vote on it in the next Scottish Parliament elections.

    57. galamcennalath says:

      Peston …

      “Where are we heading? The destination is constitutional crisis, where legislature will be in irreconcilable conflict with executive, …… It’s the mother of all flippin’ messes. “

      http://archive.is/Mt2NQ

      Unless something changes, May’s plans are going to crash in WM.

    58. Graeme says:

      Collie is right, I couldn’t care less about our so called national football team or rugby team if I remember correctly the SRU came firmly out for NO during the referendum and the SFA recently appointed a manager who doesn’t believe the national team he manages should even be a nation.

      If they can’t support Scotland the nation why the hell should Scotland the nation support them

    59. shiregirl says:

      Utterly depressing.

      I’m away to have an other large red. And perhaps another thereafter.

    60. Yerkitbreeks says:

      Just a wee bit of snide history – Dr Fox applied for a trainee GP post here with Selkirk Medical Practice – and was rejected. !!

    61. Yerkitbreeks says:

      Yaaaay

    62. shiregirl says:

      Yerkitbreeks says:
      10 November, 2018 at 6:04 pm

      As an NP working within primary care, I am delighted at the Practices’ judgement of character.

      🙂

    63. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Iain mhor @ 14:05,

      For some, the worse it gets, the more they dig in. A big ask to give up what feels like a huge chunk of what you believe in, especially if you have a minority view in Scotland whereas not in the UK as a whole.

      Desperation takes many forms, one of which is a blank refusal to recognise the truth, even especially when it’s an inch from the nose. Another is anger against some conveniently-available scapegoat.

      The best that can be done, I think, is to get through to them somehow that they will still be able to vote for their favourite party and policies in an independent Scotland, and what is more, they – along with the rest of us – would own it.

      (Which is probably the scariest notion of all! =grin=)

    64. Malky says:

      His wee face in that second picture. This is a guy who did not get an easy run at secondary school.

    65. Davie Oga says:

      Graeme 5:47

      I concur about McCleish. Results have been atrocious even though I don’t think he’s a particularly bad manager. You never know, he might just be getting bad advice when he contacts Southgate to get his team selection approved.

    66. sandy says:

      Collie @ 5.06 pm.
      Another sweeping statement. There are a plethora of these on this blog already without more being added. Do you want to join Rock, HYFUD, Colin Alexander, etc., to become a symbol of ridicule.
      Please provide facts to any statement. Speculate by all means but personify it by a phrase, perhaps ie, “I believe that—“.

      God knows we have enough of these statements in politics & MSM, what with (T)ruth, CARlaw, a failed used car salesman, *Dickhead of Scottish Lab branch & their coronies, EBC, etc.

      *Typo intended.

      I move in rugby & football circles & as far as I can gather, most of my friends, if not all, are true Scots, NOT BUTS.

    67. Graeme says:

      Davie Oga says:
      10 November, 2018 at 6:55 pm

      Graeme 5:47

      I concur about McCleish. Results have been atrocious even though I don’t think he’s a particularly bad manager. You never know, he might just be getting bad advice when he contacts Southgate to get his team selection approved.

      ……………………………………………………………
      Davie I don’t care if he’s a good manager or a bad manager he’s supposed to be our national manager yet he doesn’t even believe we should be a nation, he’s what I call a regionalist he believes Scotland should be a region not a nation, he’s already turned his back on Scotland for a bit of cash.I’m a Scottish nationalist and proud to say so and I will not in any way support a British regionalist

    68. yesindyref2 says:

      Yay! Good for wales, jeezo, tense stuff.

    69. yesindyref2 says:

      @Simon Curran
      I know at least 2 of the current squad who are yessers, and probably a few more.

    70. frogesque says:

      @ yesindyref2: 7.12

      Aye,

      Emphatic win for Scotland.
      Close win for Wales

      Loss by one point for England

      I guess Great Britain won the first set then?!

    71. Rock says:

      manandboy says:
      10 November, 2018 at 3:52 pm

      “I want to live in an independent Scotland.

      ASAP.”

      Don’t you worry.

      Scotland will be independent in 2640 AD, in my humble opinion.

      Any esteemed posters here able to predict a date earlier than that?

    72. Lanarkist says:

      Dr. Fox, Atlantic Bridge!
      He will never be short of a business contact or two and all the shady dealings in Corporate sphere.

    73. Graeme says:

      Rock says:
      10 November, 2018 at 7:32 pm

      manandboy says:
      10 November, 2018 at 3:52 pm

      Scotland will be independent in 2640 AD, in my humble opinion.

      Hi Rock can you be a bit more specific like an actual date and is it likely to be am or pm ?

    74. yesindyref2 says:

      Aye, Scotland went back up to 6, with Wales being Australia. England moved further behind Wales after losing to NZ by 1 point (didn’t see the match).

      1 New Zealand 93.58 (+0.62)
      2 Ireland 88.12 (-2.00)
      3 Wales 86.70 (+0.35)
      4 England 85.54 (-0.62)
      5 South Africa 83.03
      6 (?7) Scotland 82.75 (+0.14)
      7 (?6) Australia 82.51 (-0.35)
      8 (?9) Argentina 80.01 (+2.00)
      9 (?8) France 79.10
      10 Fiji 76.40 (-0.14)

    75. TheItalianJob says:

      Aye Liam Fox. The man who invited and had Thatcher the snatcher at his 50 birthday bash.

      Enough said. D***head is too good a word to describe him.

    76. William says:

      Sadly the Brit Nats will still vote for these Clowns.

    77. ronnie anderson says:

      Lollysmum is in Edinburgh Royal with a broken leg , lets wish her a speedy recovery XX .

    78. yesindyref2 says:

      Jeez, all the best to Lollysmum.

    79. yesindyref2 says:

      Actually, scrunching my eyes up because the calcs are difficult, if France at home can beat South Africa, we might go up to 5th above the Boks, and be within touching distance of England. Come on France, you can beat them!

    80. Cubby says:

      Only Rockshit is mad enough to think he is Nostradamus.

    81. Marie Clark says:

      ronnie anderson @ 8.21, sorry to hear that ronnie, . To Lollysmum, I wish you well, and hope you make a speedy recovery. Keep your chin up girl, your needed for this fight. Lots of love.

    82. Rock says:

      Graeme says:
      10 November, 2018 at 7:46 pm

      “Hi Rock can you be a bit more specific like an actual date and is it likely to be am or pm ?”

      I sure can.

      If you have the guts to put on record your prediction of a date for the next independence referendum. Just the month and year will do, no need for the day or timing.

    83. Cubby says:

      Hey Rockshit will it be sunny that day, will Brexit still be getting negotiated, and will Scotland have qualified for a major football championship.

    84. Daisy Walker says:

      Get well soon Lollysmum.

    85. yesindyref2 says:

      Yay! Come on France.

    86. call me dave says:

      Sorry to hear about your leg Lollysmom. 🙁

      Get back soon!

      O/T

      Jings! Be soon? “Be soooon” I said “be sooon”

      Remember who said that… For the older ones. 🙂

    87. Cubby says:

      A conundrum

      Who are the most stupid: the Scottish fishermen for voting for Scottish Britnat Tories. Or the Scottish Britnat Tories for thinking the English Britnat Tories would not sell them both down the EU river to help London.

      Maybe they couldn’t smell a rat due to the pervasive smell of fish.

      I’ll have to ponder this a bit further.

    88. Pete Barton says:

      For Lolly mum – I was in the old royal in 1981 with a broken leg.

      You do get out eventually …very sore, so you have all my sympathy.

      I was so glad to just hear the birds sing, see the sun..I couldn’t stop smiling.

      Hope that is you in 3 months time.

      Keep the faith, good things will come out of bad!

    89. ronnie anderson says:

      Marie/Daisy I’ll give a update tomorrow when I visit her but she seems in fine feckle ( ah’ll no be peeling any grapes ) lol , she’s getting into trouble eating to much fruit playing havoc wie her diabetes .

    90. Liz g says:

      Aw Lollysmum…
      Whit on earth hiv ye done tae yer self ?
      Wishing you a speedy recovery my friend XXX

    91. wull2 says:

      From a previous post
      Scotland will be independent in 2640 AD

      My input, by that time we will be independent for 621 years.

    92. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Lollysmum

      Get well soon.

    93. Macart says:

      Take it easy Lollysmum. Lots of wine. Lots of choccies and someone to fetch and carry is what I recommend. Won’t make stuff heal any faster, but it does wonders for the morale. 🙂

    94. ronnie anderson says:

      Marie / Daisy /liz g Lyn is laughing noo but the outcome could hiv been very different , windy day she goes up on the roof of her camper van to place a tarpaulin gets blown off bounces off the bonnet hits her car & lands in between the two , lost her mobile in the leaf litter so had to search for it , over a hour before she could get attention .

    95. cearc says:

      Sorry to hear about the leg, Lollysmum. All best wishes for your recovery.

    96. Liz g says:

      Oh my goodness Ronnie.. that’s a scary thing to have happened.
      Glad to hear she can chuckle about it now.. but still stops ye cold when ye think of it!!
      Can you keep us informed until she is up to posting herself?

    97. Sinky says:

      Watching BT Sport programme on English amateur football team Corinthians whose exploits, while commendable, pale into significance compared to Queens Park or of Heart of Midlothian in respect of WW1 sacrifice but as Scottish clubs UK broadcasters consider them inferior.

    98. Graeme says:

      Rock says:
      10 November, 2018 at 8:40 pm

      I sure can.

      If you have the guts to put on record your prediction of a date for the next independence referendum. Just the month and year will do, no need for the day or timing.

      ……………………………………………………………

      You obviously don’t do irony do you Rock,

      I don’t have a prediction that’s anymore meaningful or evidence based as anyone else right now, but I have a burning desire that it happens soon or at the very latest in my lifetime which unfortunately will end long before your prediction so just in case you’re proved to be right here my congratulations in advance Well done Rock congratulations you were right all along if only we had all listened to you.

      Feel better now ?

    99. Bob Mack says:

      @Ronnie Anderson,

      Sending all my best wishes to Lollysmum. Wishing her a speedy recovery.

    100. Another Union Dividend says:

      @ Sinky says 9.34, the Ibrox loyalists don’t like being reminded that no Rangers player volunteered during World War One citing preserved shipyard occupation wheras one Celtic player did and, despite being top of the Scottish League at the time, the entire Hearts first team squad volunteered and many of them paid the ultimate scarfice.

    101. Thepnr says:

      Talking about predictions, I like a good guessing game so I’ll go first. Don’t worry it’s not about Brexit but seeing as there is a chance of an election in the not too distant future.

      Then who will be the UK’s next Prime Minister?

      My guess is that it will be Keir Starmer who is a new kid on the block having only first been elected in 2015. What of Jeremy Corbyn you might ask?

      A fair question but if May loses a vote of confidence (I pray she does) because of her incompetence over the Brexit negotiations and a General election is called. Then I think Jeremy Corbyn will do the honourable thing and stand down as leader, for the sake of the party of course.

      New leader, I suppose there are two or three possible winners but Keir Starmer will be one of them, I read his Wiki article there as know little about him but i guess few do. Apparently he’s the son of a Nurse and a Toolmaker, his dad named him after Keir Hardie so seems to fit the bill for the left of the party.

      He’s also a Barrister and former head of the Crown Prosecution Service.

      The main point though having not been around for very long he carries little baggage and in the next few months he is going to get a lot more exposure as he is the main man for Labour on all things Brexit.

      This is just my wee bit of fun and the main point is that I really do think that Jeremy Corbyn will stand aside if there’s an early election. I doubt he actually want’s the job, well who would want to try and untangle the mess that is left behind by the Tories?

      I can easily see him anointing a new leader and hoping to keep a place in their favour. What chance do I have of being right? Well Ladbrokes will give you 100/1 on Starmer being the next Prime Minister.

      I might have a fiver on, I’m that reckless 🙂

    102. mumsyhugs says:

      Mumsyhugs to Lollysmum xxx

    103. Marie Clark says:

      Oh Lollysmum, that was really nasty, you must have had a hell of a fright and wonder where they hell you were going to land. I’m pleased the damage was not a lot worse.

      Oh well, at least you can laugh about it now. Take care.

    104. Sarah says:

      Sorry to hear about your accident, Lollysmum. I always enjoy your comments here so I hope you will be able to contribute whilst in hospital.

      Have to say I had great food in Raigmore hosp when I broke my wrist – best hospital food ever, in my experience, especially the Scotch broth!

    105. ronnie anderson says:

      Thepnr hiv U been consulting Nostkredamous he of the humble opinion LoL .

    106. Hamish100 says:

      rock only predicts dates when he knows no one alive today will be around. That includes himself of course which he has not been able to work out.

    107. Bobp says:

      Graeme 7.10pm . I like that terminology. Are you a nationalist or are you a regionalist?.

    108. Thepnr says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Nah, just very bored lol.

      Get well soon Lollysmum.

    109. Still Positive says:

      Hope you are doing well Lollysmum. So sorry for your accident. Hugs and love. xx

    110. galamcennalath says:

      Just scanning google for top news stories on Brexit. Full of the right wing comics beseeching May to act tough with the EU. They want a weak, short, and ineffective backstop.They don’t want their UK to relinquish control to the EU.

      Fair enough (from their point of view) because they want a hard Brexit.

      However, they never ever say how they they would deal with the UK/EU land border in Ireland long term. When their UK moves away from regulatory compliance with the single market, what is their plan for Ireland?

      Remember, they don’t want the UK to even be in customs union. They want it hard.

      There is only one conclusion – Northern Ireland gets dumped as an EU ‘protectorate’ as the price for a ‘real’ Brexit.

      Also, there is a huge paradox with the DUP. They want a hard Brexit, they want NI within the UK in all senses, and they say they don’t want a visible border. That is impossible. Something has to give. I suspect with the DUP they would opt for the hard border!

      Clearly, the far right in NI and the far right in England don’t see eye to eye!

    111. Bobp says:

      Artyhetty 3.11pm “when Scotlands resources are gone, they are gone ” Ah but as long as the loyal mob can lie prostrate before their queen and fly their fleg. They would live in an apocalyptic wasteland. Some people you can help, but sadly some are beyond it.

    112. Legerwood says:

      Lollysmum sorry to hear you are in hospital. Hope your recovery goes smoothly.

    113. Thepnr says:

      @galamcennalath

      Where the DUP are being totally idiotic over all of this is that both to avoid a hard border but more importantly for them to avoid becoming more separate from the UK and therefore closer to Eire would be to stay in the EU!

      That should have been their position from the start, their own idiocy has weakened their position in NI and made unification with the Republic much more likely.

      They are not the only fools though to have jumped on the Brexit bandwagon. In fact there’s now to many to mention.

    114. jim says:

      Annie Wells MSP

      “I’m quoted in the EveningTimes regarding two violent murders in Glasgow this week.”
      ____
      Quick,someone phone Police Scotland, Annie’s just confessed, lol.

    115. Thepnr says:

      Brexit where are we now?

      Last week The Sunday Times told us a deal was “imminent” this week:

      LONDON (Reuters) – Four British ministers who back remaining in the European Union are on the verge of quitting Prime Minister Theresa May’s government over Brexit, the Sunday Times reported.

      The newspaper also said that the European Union had rejected May’s plan for an independent mechanism to oversee Britain’s departure from any temporary customs arrangement it agrees.

      Brexiteers in May’s Conservative Party insist Britain must have control over when it leaves a customs arrangement as it moves towards a new trading relationship with the bloc. But the paper quoted a Whitehall source as saying the EU would insist on using the European Court of Justice to oversee any decision.

      http://archive.fo/4M0o4

      The Sunday Times is as useless and incompetent as the government.

    116. defo says:

      Could it be,that yon big bell push pictured at the rear of once disgraced, but not very shy Liam, is to summon his bagman Adam, when the coast is clear?

    117. Fred says:

      Liam Fox lied about his age!

    118. Macart says:

      @Thepnr

      Not the only thing the DUP have to worry about. They forget who and what they’re dealing with.

      Conservatives and Westminster politics aren’t forgiving types. Their history is littered with casual betrayal. Political, societal and even within their own party. They are creatures of convenience. Their entire ideology is based on self promotion and advancement. Today’s lasting agreement is tomorrow’s serving suggestion.

      International treaties, devolution settlements, peace agreements? They last only so long as they are of use to Conservative interests. They don’t do consensus. They don’t understand unity. Their concept of democracy is how they can best use it against itself and to their benefit.

      Does anyone really think that if May could govern without the DUP, they wouldn’t throw them under a bus? Does anyone truly think that the Tories aren’t considering a workaround of that situation right now? What does the DUP think will happen the very next time a Conservative government can command a majority without their bought and paid for input?

      Just sayin’ like, but Conservatives are a patient bunch when they want to be and someday (maybe sooner than they think or want), the DUP’s usefulness to them will come to an end.

    119. Fred says:

      @ Lollysmum, Bests!

    120. Thepnr says:

      @Macart

      I think the DUP’s usefulness to teh Tories is already at an end. The Tories have betrayed them and this just adds to May’s woes.

      Good! and I hope it costs them all too.

    121. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Lollysmum.

      Get well for the independence push in the spring of 2019!

    122. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      I’m sure Arlene at al will get over the betrayal as they divvy up the dosh they squeezed out of the Tories.

    123. call me dave says:

      Quiet day at the world chess. Game 2. Draw.

      O/T or maybe not.

      Battle of Bannockburn 1314 ‘line of fire’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2L4WvejKB8

      Worth a watch.

    124. Capella says:

      @ Lollysmum – so sorry to hear about your scary escapade. Hope the leg heals up quickly and you get back to posting soon. Take care.

    125. Bobp says:

      Lollysmum love your posts so get well soon .

    126. Petra says:

      Tory liars. What’s new? Labour lying abstainers. What’s new?

      If you want to protect Scotland, with ALL that entails, support the SNP, folks. The only political party capable of getting us out of this wee English dictatorship. A dictatorship controlled by a crowd of cruel, callous ignoramuses. Time for Scots, mostly highly intelligent, kind and caring, to take control of our own affairs.

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2018/11/10/sold-out-going-in-sold-out-going-out/

      ……………..

      Best wishes to Lollysmum for a speedy recovery X

    127. Tatu3 says:

      Hope your leg mends quickly Lollysmum.

      We watched Outlaw King last night. Brilliant.

    128. Robert Louis says:

      Petra at 1223am,

      I have just read through the draft declaration of independence, and I have to say, despite the urge to referendum, is the time not coming very soon, when it will simply be in Scotland’s best interests to simply declare independence.

      Like many other countries in the past who have declared independence from English colonial rule, Scotland is now at a pivotal point.

      The time for talking is near an end. Scotland is being ignored, yet we are forcibly being driven over the brexit cliff by England.

      People say, ‘oh. but you aren’t allowed to do UDI etc… but let’s remember, that is EXACTLY what most independent countries were told.

      What is important in the linked document by Grousebeater, is the indictment, the laying out of charges AGAINST Westminster rule. The list of grievances is high, very, very high. When set out in this way, it makes the case for UDI pretty clear cut and obvious really.

      I mean, seriously, NO OTHER COUNTRY would ever tolerate the abuse Scotland is currently enduring. It is beyond democracy, beyond normal approaches, and beyond discussion or conventional politics.

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2018/11/10/a-declaration-of-independence/

    129. Robert Louis says:

      On related matters, does anybody know if Outlaw king will ever be in the cinema? I can’t believe netflix are not going to show it in any Scottish cinemas.

    130. sassenach says:

      call me dave @6-52

      Hilda Baker, perchance?

    131. sassenach says:

      Watched Outlaw King last night – very enjoyable (not of course if you’re a Britnat!!).

    132. Phydaux says:

      Robert Louis 7:43

      The Filmhouse in Edinburgh managed to do a deal with Netflix for an exclusive short run and Outlaw King is on this week until 15th November. Looking forward to seeing it on the big screen.

    133. Golfnut says:

      @ Grousebeater.

      Read the Declaration and to be honest disappointed to see the Acts of Union being sited.
      Scotland is in a political union with England, by Treaty. A Treaty which meets and adheres to all recognised International norms, namely and primarily the Treaty was negotiated and signed by two Independent and Sovereign states. The Acts, because there are two, are the internal legal mechanisms for passage into law.
      It’s the Treaty of Union which must be sited.

    134. galamcennalath says:

      Today Poland celebrates 100 years since it regained independence.

      The EU is full of nations which understand why Scotland too might wish to join them. When the times comes, they will support us, IMO. Butnly after we have expresssed our will democratically.

    135. Golfnut says:

      @ Grousebeater.

      As usual I posted before I finished, I absolutely applaud the intent and the form of the Declaration, a bit about the Treaty being forced on the Sovereign people of Scotland, both by England and her own Parliamentarians. Include the full draft of the Declaration of Arbroath, it has real significance and legal clout. A bit about the introduction of GERS as a mechanism to hide the wealth generated by Scotland. I would really love to see Westminster trying to defend GERS in an International court. Anyway love the idea and intent.

    136. galamcennalath says:

      This is important. We all know ‘think tanks’ is just another more acceptable name for right wing pressure groups. Rather than go to court and have the entire conspiracy revealed in open court, this lot chose to settle a whistleblowers unfair dismiss case out of court.

      The particularly worrying aspect is the alleged direct connections between the cabal and Downing Street.

      http://archive.is/oKsrn

    137. galamcennalath says:

      Today is Armistice Day. I will remember those who died, particularly my two great uncles in WW1 and an uncle who probably died because of what happened to him in WW2.

      I will also remember whose blood stains the butcher’s apron – their blood and that of millions of others.

    138. Tinto Chiel says:

      Get well soon, Lollysmum: sounds a bad one.

      As it used to say in old Readers’ Digests in the dentist’s, laughter is the best medicine. This is either a Chic Murray or a Tommy Cooper:

      Patient: I’ve broken my leg in three places!

      Doctor: Well, don’t go to those places…..

      I also had a GP in EK (not Liam Fox, thank God) who used to ask with a serious face, “Have you had this pain before?” If you said yes and looked all worried, he would grin and say, “Well, you’ve got it again!”

      Och, the benter!

    139. Golfnut says:

      @Tinto Chiel.
      “Well you’ve got it again ”
      My old doc’s saying, ” I think you’ve got that till it goes away ” . But what if it doesn’t go away, ” then come back “.

    140. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I must say, that is one highly-impressive piece of work, Grousebeater’s draft Declaration of Independence.

      I encourage all Wingers to read it and publicise it.

    141. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Golfnut: 😛

      This is defo a CM.

      Doctor: Please get undressed and lie on the couch.
      Patient: Where shall I put my clothes?
      Doctor: Just put them on top of mine.

      I’m off before hammers.

    142. gus1940 says:

      I don’t believe it – our colonial masters are opening the Armistice Parade with Rule Britannia.

      There’s nothing like a bit of triumphalism at this time of solemn commemoration.

      What a shower of absolute bastards.

    143. Robert Louis says:

      ‘Rule Britannia’?? They can all GTF. British nationalists and English supremacists the lot of them. I’ll choose to remember the war dead instead.

    144. Robert Louis says:

      Phydaux

      Many, many thanks. I shall be going. Brilliant. Much rather see it on the big screen, instead of telly, or …even worse a phone.

    145. Robert Louis says:

      Golfnut at 0847

      Agree regarding the treaty. The union is in the form of an international treaty, agreed to separately by separate acts (plural) of union in both Scotland and England.

    146. Frank Gillougley says:

      Yes, All that this image of Fox is missing is a lanyard and officers uniform.

      ‘Trade deal after Brexit should be ‘easiest in history’ has the same DNA as:

      ‘It’ll all be over by Christmas’

      Poignant, today of all insufferable days.
      as gus 1940 says …
      What a shower of absolute bastards

    147. Nana says:

      Links

      http://indyref2.scot/bbc-scotland-and-fake-brexit-news

      https://peterabell.blog/2018/11/10/this-is-our-fight/

      UN special rapporteur on poverty is shocked by the largest number of reports from British charities, he had ever received, before his visit to examine the level of poverty under Tory austerity.
      https://www.facebook.com/indycargordonross/videos/177718149846287/?t=0

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/trust-not-greed-will-drive-prosperity-in-an-independent-scotland/

    148. Nana says:

      https://www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/news/17210879.tory-partys-brexit-sheep-blasted-by-landowner/

      Ah that dirty oil of which there is but a mere bucketful remaining for Scots but ‘vast wealth’ for an English Brexit
      https://twitter.com/jimbo_w/status/1061232371419267072

      Jobs boost as Danish firm builds new hydraulic plant in Scotland
      http://archive.is/dKA58

      https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk//top-stories/snp-warn-theresa-may-is-causing-brexit-chaos-1-5771817

    149. Breeks says:

      Kinda curious about the suspicion that May is going to sell out Scottish Fishermen. What Agreement is there in the offing? None where fishing is a pivotal concession, or inspired solution to the Irish backstop conundrum.

      Surely May’s betrayal of Scottish fishing is just a letter of intent?

      I subscribed to Netflix too, specifically to watch Outlaw King. I thoroughly recommend you do too. To be critical of things I like is my way unfortunately, and I found myself reflecting on what Peter Jones had said on one of his Lord of the Rings support DVD’s, namely the difficulty at the time of a selling the idea of a film trilogy. There’s an awful lot crammed in cover to cover.

      The two hours of Outlaw King passes all too quickly, and ticks so many boxes of affirmation that I lost count. Wife in the gibbet cage… check. Spoke French… check. Don’t worry, I won’t go on so I don’t spoil it…The cynic in me was actually enjoying the film too, and that’s quite a rare event too. Concessions to Hollywood commercialism were thankfully rare, and the gritty realism married with universal plausibility was very refreshing.

      I felt kinda smug seeing so many little gems and truisms right there in the film, but blink and you would miss them. Very few were revisited twice. Sometimes too, I think the story was so compressed inside two hours that the gravitas of an in character narrator, perhaps something like the 300 movie, would have added more depth to the 100 mph narrative.

      My criticism with Braveheart was why on Earth introduce all the Hollywood embellishments and theatrics when the real story of Wallace was already so humbling just in its factual reality? Why gift it’s critics the blue war paint and kilts worn before their time? Braveheart can now be pigeon holed as fantasy or fiction, and the whole story of Wallace put on the shelf. Not so with Outlaw King. There is no such convenient “get out of jail free” card for Scottish cringers and BritNats. Hell, even the scenery is authentic raw Caledonia…

      Directors cut, or sequel covering the next 20 years and unfinished business… Bring it on and sign me up.

      I’m off now to walk the dog and spend some time contemplating the fallen. I’ll do it on my own, in my own way, and there won’t be any poppy garnish in sight. I cannot help the dead. The most poignant act of remembrance I can think of is to frustrate the warmongers and stop more sons and daughters being corrupted by the slaughters which haven’t happened yet. If the dead could speak, I reckon they might approve of that.

      I’m not for all that a pacifist. I’m very comfortable with a soldier defined by his bravery and conduct in front of an enemy. I’m comfortable with “rough men standing ready to bring violence to those who would do us harm”. There were 600 of them at Louden Hill in 1307. So why stop at a poppy, when there are aw the ither floors in the forest?

    150. Nana says:

      Brexit: casting free from the shadow
      http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87051

      https://welfareweekly.com/private-profiteers-capita-to-continue-benefiting-from-westminster-benefits-contract/

      https://sputniknews.com/europe/201811111069706488-eu-uk-brexit-proposal/

      Starts at noon
      Full Scottish – 11/11/2018

      Later this week, the Scottish Rural Parliament takes place in Stranraer and on the Full Scottish this week, Corri Wilson is joined by Emma Cooper, the Chief Executive of Scottish Rural Action and Daye Tucker, farmer and Rural Leader.
      https://www.broadcastingscotland.scot/full-scottish-11-11-2018/

    151. Breeks says:

      Why stop at a poppy? Oh yes, that’s right, on the 700th Anniversary of Bannockburn, the BritNats and scheming Warmongers with their cynically manipulative Stirling Armed Forces day, forced me to decide… So I did.

    152. HYUFD says:

      Robert Louis Catalonia tried UDI, it ended with the Catalan Parliament being dissolved and the Catalan leadership being arrested and put on trial by the Spanish government or forced into exile.

      Without a clear Yes vote for independence in an official referendum the Westminster government would likely do the same

    153. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Nana

      Thanks for the Links, anything slightly happy in there?

    154. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Grousebeater

      Draft Declaration of Independence.

      Good read got me going I’m away to build a fence at the border.

      Seriously I thought some excellent points in there. So many things wrong with the so called union its hard to keep up.

    155. Nana says:

      Hi Jason

      If you are of a nervous disposition, I would advise caution 🙂

      However
      http://newsthump.com/2018/11/09/theresa-may-hit-by-colossal-metaphor-as-she-suffers-car-crash-in-belgium/

    156. Cubby says:

      Remembrance Day seems to be bringing out the latent fascist in one of our resident Britnat fanatics. The one who promised to stop posting. Bit like all Britnat promises – lies.

      Britnats just love their colonies so they can get them to fight their wars while at the same time looting the colonies resources. Britnats a bunch of fascist barstewards.

    157. HYUFD says:

      Scotland is not a colony, it has its own Parliament and MPs at Westminster and it voted 55% to stay in the Union in 2014. If people write rubbish such as about declaring UDI without a clear Yes vote for independence in an official referendum of course I will respond

    158. Jock McDonnell says:

      Any suggestion about selling out the fishermen is just a straw man. Heighten the fear, then win an imaginary battle.
      I expect the fishermen will be relatively happy with Brexit compared with where they are now.
      Although, lets not forget who sold out the fishing grounds initially. A clue, it was not the SNP.

    159. Robert Kerr says:

      @HYFUD

      If Scotland is not a colony what is she?

    160. Cubby says:

      I thiñk what we need is draft constitution for an Independent Scotland. It would contrast with the UK and its ” no written constitution”.

    161. Iain mhor says:

      @Breeks 11:30am

      If the claim that the EU must be given access to UK fishing waters as part of any backstop deal doesn’t meet the criteria of an agreement, or that access to UK fishing waters is probably a condition of exporting our fish, or that Denmark et-al will probably just fish on regardless, or a plethora of other reasons why Scotlands waters won’t be empty of every vessel, bar some Peterhead trawlers –
      Then how about Gibralter and Spain’s legendary shaky knees collapsing and conceding a Gibralter deal in the face of May’s steely glare (aye right!) What was conceded might you consider?

      http://britishseafishing.co.uk/brexit-and-britains-fisheries/

      https://www.politico.eu/article/gibraltar-brexit-deal-done-says-spain-prime-minister-pedro-sanchez/

    162. HYUFD says:

      Robert Kerr A constituent nation of the United Kingdom

    163. Cubby says:

      With regards to Terminating an International Treaty Trump has shown how easily it can be done when he decided to terminate the USA involvement in the Treaty with Iran.

      The Union is an International Treaty between 2 sovereign Kingdoms. The original Treaty is there for all to see. It can be terminated in International law. The Kingdom of England can terminate it anand the Kingdom of Scotland can terminate it. That is why all the flat earth Britnats will deny this and say it is a Union of countries. They of course cannot produce any documentation to substantiate their propaganda. The truth does not fit their agenda nor the propaganda they have been spouting for a long long time. The Britnats need the Treaty to be kept hidden from view.

      The Britnats profess loyalty to a Union that most of them do not understand what it is. Category 2 Britnats as I call them – the ones who believe all the Britnat lies. Category 1. Britnats are of course those who tell the Britnat lies but know they are lies.

    164. Bob Mack says:

      A constituent– part of something,but sadly not partner.

      Forever outvoted by 10 to 1, is hardly partnership considering we are one half of the signatories to the Act of Union.

      In no other sphere of life would one half of a partnership tolerate what Scots endure from Westminster. It is an abusive relationship.

    165. Bibbit Blair says:

      Idea For Chris Cairns Toons –

      A drawing of Mr Fox on the ‘Titanic,’ watching the ship steam straight for the iceberg, and Arlene Foster standing on the iceberg, wearing a Rangers scarf / orange sash, with the caption underneath,

      ‘There’s a bear on Fox’s glacier mints’.

    166. Greannach says:

      Heavy duty grieve-a-thon on BBC today. Maybe that’s the future for post-Brexit UK, an international grief centre mourning anything from anywhere. Open up a concentration camp in the English Midlands as a theme destination. Or relive the Bengal famine. Foxy should having been thinking of these money spinners instead of selling innovative jam to Kiribati.

    167. Iain mhor says:

      By which processes does a constituent (I note constituent nation, not partner or region) have recourse to, for removing itself from the United Kingdom?

      I’m slowly getting there, it will never be said I doubt, but it appears the basis of HYFUDS “debates” is that the nations of England & Scotland were ‘extinguished’ on the creation of a new Nation the ‘Kingdom of Great Britain. That premise allows many of the arguments.
      Would it be correct to surmise this?

      Not to pre-empt any answer – but if correct, there is an error in describing Scotland as a constituent ‘Nation’ – Scotland & England would be Regions of the new Nation of the “UK of GB & NI” – unfortunately, “Countries” is also proscribed by any extinguishing.

    168. Cubby says:

      Robert Kerr@12.29pm

      Robert I have previously given our resident Britnat fanatic a definition of a colony. He was unable to provide an alternative definition. Instead he reacted by saying I was an ethnic nationalist and wanted to throw the English born out of Scotland. I pointed out that he is saying I would want to throw my son, who was born in England, out of Scotland. He is a Britnat fanatical Tory diddy. Britnats like him from England think they own Scotland – he only proves the case that Scotland in practical terms is a colony.

      In legal terms Scotland is a sovereign partner in the U.K. In practical terms the Britnats have turned Scotland into a colony. It is the Britnats who have destroyed their own precious Union. These Britnats say Scotland is a part of the UK – doesn’t really matter if they say a region or country or whatever. They are have destroyed the Union because legally Scotland is a partner. The Britnats are not only liars they are breaking the law.

      In summary Scotland shouldn’t be a colony but it is.

      Phantom Power film on Norway shows what we have missed out on from being a colony and not an independent nation. If it does not make you both sad and angry then you are either a robot or a Britnat.

      No more cringing.

    169. McDuff says:

      Just been watching the remembrance program on BBC and if you ever needed a reminder that Btitain is England then this was it.
      It was all about England, the guests in the studio,members of the public all English.
      How Scots can stomach it is a wonder.

    170. Robert Peffers says:

      @Golfnut says: 11 November, 2018 at 8:47 am:

      ” … The Acts, because there are two, are the internal legal mechanisms for passage into law.”

      Not only that but both parliaments that passed those Acts of Union then went into recession. However, by a quirk of fate, while the Parliament of The Kingdom of England went into permeant recession that of that of the Kingdom of Scotland was only prorogued.

      Furthermore, when Winnie Ewing, a trained lawyer, opened the new Scottish Parliament, whether by chance or design, she did not open a new Scottish Parliament she reconvened the old one.
      See here:-u

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiottF-df3Y

      Not only that but the old Parliament of the Kingdom of England has never sat again. Westminster, from 1 May 1707, is the United Kingdom Parliament.

      This means that when the union is declared over by the reconvened Parliament of the Kingdom of Scotland Westminster IS NOT the Parliament of either the Kingdom or the country of England. It simply ceases to exist and no one has been elected as a member of the Parliament of the Kingdom of England since 1 May 1707.

      Another important fact is that the Treaty of Union legally unites two only kingdoms it does not unite four countries. Countries did not sign the Treaty of Union Kingdoms did and the seals attached to the treaty were the Royal seals of the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.

      Then there is the legal fact that The Treaty of Union is written as Articles of Union and each Article of Union is a legal contract by itself and breaking the conditions of any single article of Union breaks the treaty as a whole.

      So while it is important to always refer to, “The Treaty of Union”, it is equally important to always use the term Kingdom(s), when referring to the Treaty.

      To explain that one – Westminster immediately broke the terms of the Treaty by not treating Scotland as an equally sovereign kingdom partner but the greatest thing ever broken by Westminster in relation to the Treaty of Union was, without doubt, the whole process of devolution closely followed by the introduction of EVEL.

      This because it made it very clear indeed that as Westminster was legally the Parliament of the United Kingdom when it devolved powers to Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland but did not devolve powers to a parliament of the country of England there was actually no longer a two partner United Kingdom parliament and Westminster had assumed itself the Parliament of the Country of England. EVEL only serves to make that plain.

      In fact David Mundell is on record citing a Westminster paid for paper by a couple of their tame, (cough!), experts as, “The Treaty of Union, ‘Extinguished’, The Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”.

      The Treaty of Union does nothing of the sort. In fact, legally, it does exactly the opposite for it states that The Establishment Religion of the Kingdom of England, (headed by the monarch of England), can never be applied to Scotland. It states that the Scottish Education System and the Scottish Rule of Law are sacrosanct and must remain forever independent.

      That Independent legal system is based firmly upon the Declaration of Arbroath and that states the Kingdom of Scotland is independent, (The Treaty of Union being an agreement between two equally sovereign kingdoms). It also states that not only are the people, not the monarchy, legally sovereign but the sovereign people have the legal right to throw out any monarch they judge to not be protecting the people’s sovereignty and replacing that monarchy with someone who will protect it.

    171. galamcennalath says:

      Sunday media full of Brexiteers saying backstop can’t be permanent and UK must be able to cancel it.

      Total lack of collective self awareness.

      The reason the EU and Ireland need a legally binding backstop, which cannot be unilaterally cancelled, is because they are dealing with a bunch of perfidious barstads who can never be trusted!

    172. Cubby says:

      Iain Mhor @1.13pm

      Most of these Britnats are more than happy to say Scotland doesn’t exist as a nation anymore but when you point out to them that their logic means that there is no England either and would they like to go to Wembley or Twickenham or Lords with a loudspeaker and tell them England is not a nation and say to the fans “you’re being silly you are not English” they do not seem so keen on the idea. Scared of being lynched perhaps.

      Britnats always tie themselves up in knots with their incorrect facts and illogical thought processes. It’s what they are – mixed up people due to years of propaganda. They end up just resorting to lies. Their beliefs prevent them from dealing with the truth. Modern day Flat earth believers. Facts cannot remove decades/centuries of conditioning.

    173. HYUFD says:

      Bob Mack Not always true, in 1964 and February 1974 the Tories won a majority in England but we ended up with a Labour PM thanks to Scottish and Welsh MPs.

      Could happen again if Corbyn becomes PM

    174. Robert Peffers says:

      Golfnut says: 11 November, 2018 at 9:46 am:

      ” … “Well you’ve got it again ”
      My old doc’s saying, ” I think you’ve got that till it goes away ” . But what if it doesn’t go away, ” then come back “.”

      My current GP has a great sense of humour. I had already rather a lot of different medications and when I acquired yet another stomach disorder he prescribed yet another two medications.

      Being for digestive disorders I asked him, “Should I take these before or after meals”?

      Looking pointedly to my newly acquires thickening midriff he replied, “Try taking them instead of meals”.

    175. If the English wanted to end the Treaty of Union they would just end it,

      no referendum,and nobody in England would really give a sh@t,

      as stated above, if Trump thinks USA is not getting a fair deal on any treaty with any country he just either ends the treaty or forces the other country to accept his new deal,

      Scotland doesn`t need another referendum to end the Treaty of Union, the SNP were given a mandate to end it if circumstances changed,

      brexit is the circumstance,

      SNP were given leave by the voters to act on their behalf,

      just end it,easy peezy.

    176. HYUFD says:

      Cubby Scotland has its own Parliament and MPs at Westminster and voted to stay part of the Union in 2014, on no definition is it a colony

    177. HYUFD says:

      Scot Finlayson Wrong as the 63% of Scots who voted for Unionist parties at GE17 after the Brexit vote proved

    178. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Iain mhor at 1.13

      In the terms of the UN Charter whether any community is described as a nation or a region or whatever is immaterial.”All peoples have the right to self determination” and by that they have right to decide how and by whom they are governed.
      Our present status in the UK, no matter how it is described or by whom does not interfere in anyway with that (jus cogens) position.

    179. HYUFD says:

      Cubby it is perfectly possible to support England and Scotland at the soccer and rugby world cups and the Commonwealth Games and the UK and Team GB at the Olympics or the British Lions on rugby tours

    180. Sinky says:

      HYUFD

      No Scot would ever call fitba soccer.

    181. galamcennalath says:

      OT, but relevant today. Ayr beach …. https://tinyurl.com/yceyxbh4

      British army’s first black officer Walter Tull is seen on Ayr Beach. He enlisted in the Army in 1914, rose to become a 2nd Lieutenant and died in the Second Battle of the Somme at the age of 29.

    182. Hamish100 says:

      fud aint from Scotchland.

    183. K1 says:

      Just to be clear about hyfud…for those who are not aware of why he is here: His name is Simon, he’s from Essex and he’s already informed of us all of his ‘mission’ on here:

      ‘HYFUD Rinse and Repeat 16th Sept 2018

      16 September, 2018 at 12:24 am
      For all those who haven’t had the absolute pleasure of ‘debating’ with HYFUD or whatever, he’s already declared ‘why’ he’s here:

      ‘HYUFD says:
      2 September, 2018 at 5:18 pm
      The Tories got a higher voteshare in 2017 across the UK than the SNP got in Scotland at the general election which really says it all.
      I will of course never apologise for having pressing the Unionist case hard, if you do not like that as a diehard Nationalist, tough.

      HYUFD says:
      2 September, 2018 at 5:24 pm
      I could of course not care less what anybody on this forum thinks, I came here to press the Unionist case hard and take on the Nationalists (and any party which puts National identity first is by definition Nationalist). Notice the brilliant Ruth Davidson by taking a tough hard approach to nationalists has seen her party’s vote surge, she is undoubtedly as tough a Unionist leader as Salmond was for Nationalists

      HYUFD says:
      2 September, 2018 at 5:29 pm
      You will no doubt whinge as ever about Scotland’s woes despite the fact it now has its own Parliament which decides most Scotgish domestic issues and representatives at Westminster too. The Tories have of course halved unemployment from 2010 and reduced the deficit too but that is a different matter however no doubt you will whinge about that too’
      —————————-
      He’s here to ‘destroy’ us ‘Nats’ and if you want a real insight into why it’s a complete waste of time even responding to him…it starts about here on the 19th of August, on ‘The Cereal Offenders’, thread. There is nothing you can say to him as his mind is made up and if you continue to read to the end of that thread…you’ll understand exactly who you are dealing with, it’s nothing but ‘rinse and repeat’, he’s no here to debate:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-cereal-offenders/#comment-2385457

      ————————-

      Ah see further up this thread that he’s now saying we are a ‘constituent nation’ whereas before we were a ‘commemorative country’….I suppose that’s ‘progress’.

    184. Dr Jim says:

      HYFUD isn’t of course Scottish and doesn’t even live in Scotland as his online dating profile tells us
      We know all there is to know about HYFUD and he’s already been informed of that
      HYFUD enjoys imposing his opinion to WOS where it’s not required or wanted
      Nobody from Scotland imposes themselves on HYFUD in his country and if they did I’m quite sure HYFUD would be offended at the very thought of it but he should remember given his online exposure that not everybody is as nice as as us gentle folks on WOS in fact right around the corner from where Mr HYFUD resides there are really unpleasant Nationalists from his own country of England who at the drop of an armband would enjoy discussing life in general with Mr HYFUD because they don’t care for his sort either, but they have a different way of expressing that opinion than us nice folks on WOS do

    185. Cubby says:

      K1

      You are totally correct about our resident Britnat fanatic – closed mind to all the evidence/ facts put to him. Beginning to think he might actually be a bot. He certainly posts like a bot.

      A waste of time. If he is not a bot he is like someone in a Charles Manson/ Waco cult or a flat earth believer. Brainwashed and unable to challenge his own thinking.

      At first his posts gave me a laugh due to their stupendous ignorance but he is now just an irritant.

    186. Ottomanboi says:

      @HYUFD
      Soccer!…I take it you’re not from around here. North America perhaps or Australia, South Africa?
      Standard usage in these Atlantic islands is [football], as you will undoubtedly be aware. In Scotland, as has been pointed out above, it’s [fitba].

    187. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Nana

      Thanks Nana nice photo of May.

    188. Jeff says:

      Good day out yesterday. Train up from Dumfries to Glasgow, couple drinks in the Yes Bar watching Scotland win at the rugby. Then off to the GFT to see Outlaw King. Braw!

    189. stu mac says:

      @Capella says:
      10 November, 2018 at 3:02 pm
      I blame privatisation and outsourcing. There was a time when everything was run by Civil Servants who do have a good education and training and a graded career structure so that you could expect those who get to the top to be bright and competent.
      But New Labour didn’t trust the civil service and hired PR and accountancy firms to advise on policy.

      Distrust of the Civil service and the undermining of it started under Thatcher who was famously quoted as saying “is he one of us?” when discussing who would get a top civil service job. She and her cronies wanted only people who thought like them to run the civil service and did everything to undermine their authority and put them under the thumb of the government (rather than be unbiased advisers and efficient administrators). New Labour of course took Tory policies and pushed them even further than the Tories of an earlier period had dared to.

    190. frogesque says:

      Why bother with the fuds of this world?

      The open display of triumphalist Britnatery, Rule Britannia and feckin’ pipes with a Butchers Apron ffs is out the way for another year.

      We must be ready to hit the ground running, flegs, badges, door chappin, leaflets, pubs, family, whatever. One more for us is worth two less of them

      Time is close, we are winning and post Brexit every last slime ball with an agenda and a UJ will be foisted upon us. 2014 was just a practice run.

      This time? We win!

    191. Petra says:

      I watched ‘World War One Remembered’ on BBC earlier. The first time that I’ve ever watched a remembrance day programme. The cameras panned on to the Queen (no sign of Phil), Camilla and Kate all smiling on the balcony, happy days, and later showed that they all disappeared after the Royals and politicians had laid their wreaths. They couldn’t even be bothered to sit through representatives of other countries / associations laying their wreaths, the 10,000 members of the public and more so the Veterans march past. March past what? Princess Anne standing on a platform. It’s doubly galling to think that it was Queenie’s ancestors that triggered WW 1 which led to WW 2 (combined – over 100 million dead) with Queenie herself reigning over another 20 odd wars. Trebly galling to see so many people being duped.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_Kingdom

      The focus of course was on England, covered by Dimbleby, Dan Snow and Tina Daheley, with the band having the gall to play ‘There will always be an England’, as Scottish Military marched past and a disabled Gurkha was interviewed.

      Then we had Dumblebum state, when told that 17,000 organisations had applied to take part in this commemoration that can only cater for 10,000, ”so how did you weed them out?” Later asking an expert how the populace had reacted to soldiers returning from WW1 to find that they had no job and that some had been left homeless when thousands of veterans currently have no jobs, receive no funding, are homeless (13,000 plus) and in fact many are starving, suffering from PTSD and committing suicide.

      We moved onto the news with no mention of any Armistice Day events in Scotland being covered. All in all just another three and a half hours of constant ”reminders’ (one or two only covered here), as to why we’ve got to get out of this ”Union.”

      Let’s see if they cover the many events taking place across Scotland on the news, tonight / tomorrow, and the illumination in Edinburgh.

      ‘Events across Scotland mark centenary of Armistice Day by honouring war dead.’

      ”A unique illumination will take place tonight at the Scottish Parliament when the names of all those who died serving on behalf of Scotland in the First World War will be projected onto the walls of the building. So many were lost that the projection will take seven hours.”…

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17215545.events-across-scotland-mark-centenary-of-armistice-day-by-honouring-war-dead/

    192. Cubby says:

      The So called people’s vote – no mandate for any party or from any UK population to carry this out. No UK parliament vote in favour.

      Indyref2 – a mandate from the sovereign Scottish people. The Scottish parliament have voted for indyref2.

      I know which one I think has more validity and which one needs to happen. The Maybot arrogantly said now is not the time. She may well have been right. Thanks Maybot. It will happen soon though.

    193. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      gus1940 @ 10:42,
      The way remembrance should be done is the way they do it at the Menin Gate at Ieper (Ypres). Each day at 20:00 they briefly stop the traffic, and someone from the local fire brigade (I believe) comes out into the middle of the road, under the great arch bearing all the names of the lost of the Salient, and plays the Last Post in remembrance of them.

      It’s a big draw in the middle to the tourist season, of course, but if you care to turn up on any old cold dark wet winter night, as I have done, with no-one much in evidence, it’s still done, modestly without any fuss or bother. And has been done every single night without fail since the end of the war, the only exception being during the Nazi occupation.

    194. Rock says:

      Graeme says:
      10 November, 2018 at 9:35 pm

      “You obviously don’t do irony do you Rock,

      I don’t have a prediction that’s anymore meaningful or evidence based as anyone else right now”

      With respect, it is you who doesn’t see the irony.

      There are numerous pretendy “sovereign” and boasting clueless pompous armchair pundits pontificating here, but less than six months before Brexit is officially scheduled to happen and with no deal in sight, hardly any one of them has the guts to suggest a possible date for the second independence referendum.

      My point is very clear:

      Rock (27th August 2017 – “Underneath the Goodyear blimp”):

      “Scotland was on the verge of independence immediately after the Brexit vote.

      The unionist parties were without leaders and completely lost, the SNP had 56 out of 59 MPs and 50% of the vote, the EU’s eyes were (favourably) on Scotland.

      But Nicola squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

      The result: Nicola outsmarted by the collusion between Saints Theresa and Ruth on one hand, and Corbyn on the other, fall in SNP support from 50% to 37%.

      It is my prediction that there will be a “snap” Brexit and the SNP will be caught napping and unable to hold a second independence referendum.

      Or another “snap” Westminster election with the SNP again losing support.

      Despite the pretendy “sovereignty” and boasting of the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here, Scotland is again as far away from independence as ever.

      If they succeed in neutralising the Rev. Stuart Campbell and WOS, independence will be “stone dead” for at least 620 years.”

    195. Petra says:

      Oh I see that we have moved onto another thread already!

      Anyway thanks for the links Nana such as Indyref2’s (11:13am) which outlines that the People’s Vote is NOT another EUref no matter how much the BBC try to ”confuse” people. ”The ‘People’s Vote’ campaign is not calling for another vote on whether the UK should leave the European Union. It is seeking a vote on the final Brexit deal.”

      It also looks as though Scottish Farmers (11:13am) and landowners are beginning to see the light. ‘Adrian Hill, of Woodside Farm, Brougham, a former non-executive director of Harrison and Hetherington, whose wife, and her siblings, own Tayvallich Estate in Argyll, predicted that the Tory Party would suffer rural electoral losses as a result of its plans for a ‘Green brexit’. ”Without us the Tory Party will die,” he (Hill) predicted. Next up our fishermen (hopefully).

      …………………………………………………………..

      Robert Louis says at 7:41 am … ”Petra I have just read through the draft declaration of independence, and I have to say, despite the urge to referendum, is the time not coming very soon, when it will simply be in Scotland’s best interests to simply declare independence.”…

      Thanks for the Grousebeater link RL. A great piece of work, however I’m not an advocate of UDI. Can you imagine the furore that would cause if we couldn’t prove that over 50% of Scots supported Independence?

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2018/11/10/a-declaration-of-independence/

      The time IS coming soon, in particular if we can get some crucial, influential data, such as a Rev’s ‘coloured’ book, out to every household in Scotland. The sooner we hold a MASSIVE crowdfunder to do so the better, imo. Supporting / joining the SNP would also help as highlighted in Peter Bell’s article (Nana 11:13am).

      https://peterabell.blog/2018/11/10/this-is-our-fight/

      ……………………………………………………

      @ Cubby says at 12:12 pm ….. ”I think what we need is draft constitution for an Independent Scotland. It would contrast with the UK and its ” no written constitution”.”

      A number of groups / individuals have been working on this for quite some time Cubby, including Professor Mark McNaught.

      http://constitutionalcommission.org/blog/?p=217

      There’s seemingly an up to date draft of Mark McNaught’s ‘Scottish Constitution’ on IndyCar Ross’s Facebook page which I can’t access.

      ……………………………………………………………………..

      ‘Old interview backs up nurse’s suspicions about Willie McRae’s bullet wound.’

      …”Former family doctor Fergie McRae, pictured below, said he closely examined his brother as he lay unconscious in hospital shortly before he died in April 1985 and described the fatal bullet wound as being at the back of his neck under his hairline.”…

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17215424.old-interview-backs-up-nurses-suspicions-about-willie-mcraes-bullet-wound/?ref=mr&lp=3

      ………………………………………………………….

      ‘UN: Scotland is more committed to human rights than England.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17215628.un-scotland-is-more-committed-to-human-rights-than-england/?ref=mr&lp=4

    196. yesindyref2 says:

      Aspiring Conservative politicians should be very careful of comparing Catalonia to Scotland, for fear of upsetting the Cnservative party and hence ending their prospective career, becaseu the equivalent comparison is of the UK to the EU.

      May and her cabinet effectively attempted a UDI from the EU by attempting to bypass the UK Parliament over the Declaration of Article 50, but were put in their place by the Courts – the UKSC. However, May, Johnson, Davis, Hammond and all the rest of the merry crew of the Black Pig flying the Jolly Roger, were NOT arrested and slung into the Tower of London hence to be led to a place of execution, as political prisoners. Neither by the UK – nor the EU.

    197. Hamish100 says:

      rock is a fud x 620

    198. Hamish100 says:

      oops sorry 620 years . What happens next year 619? why not 10 or 1 or 5.

    199. HYUFD says:

      There was an official referendum in the UK on leaving the EU which the EU did not try to stop and which Leave won, Parliament did ultimately then vote to invoke Article 50 and Leave the EU.
      In a similar way in Scotland in 2014 there was an official referendum on Scotland leaving the UK which the UK government agreed to and which the Yes to independence side lost.

      In neither case was there a need for UDI as both affected sides agreed to official referenda. In Catalonia the Spanish government refused to agree to an official referendum though and hence the Catalan government declared UDI and the Spanish government then dissolved the Catalan Parliament and arrested the Catalan leadership or forced them into exile

    200. Petra says:

      Can anyone see if my post at 4:22pm is showing up, as it still says that my “comment is awaiting moderation”, 2 hours on.

    201. yesindyref2 says:

      @Petra
      Yes, my wife who likes all Royal stuff commented that Princess Anne was standing solid for an hour saluting those who marched, walked, pushed wheelchairs, past, while the rest of the royals were in probably having their lunch. And that’a an indictment, from a royal liker.

    202. yesindyref2 says:

      Fuddy-duddy misses the point that the UK Government – i.e. the cabinet – DID try a UDI, trying to use the prerogative which the UKSC ruled was not in the terms of the legislation, and that the UK Parliament would need to authorise the invocation of the A50, NOT the UK Gov with its UDI attempt.

      Yet none of the potential UDIers were prosecuted or even arrested. The issue was settled in the court of Law, as a civil matter.

      So Scotland is not Catalonia, and the UK whatever other faults it has, is not Spain, though it does appear fuddy-duddy wants to think of the UK as a fascist state.

    203. yesindyref2 says:

      Incidentally, it’s obvious Charlie boy is being prepared to be King, with his “I won’t be contentious about architecture etc.”, and I do wonder if that will happen sooner than later. And why? Could it be that the constitutional head of state might have to step in at some stage soon over Brexit, and the Queen is really too old for such controversy?

      Don’t forget that even though in practive usually nominal, as Head of State the King could dissolve Parliament, legally, and remove the exercise of the Royal Prerogative from the Ministers.

    204. Thepnr says:

      @Petra

      Nothing as yet from 4:22 the last showing is from 3:38.

    205. Iain mhor says:

      @Cubby & @DaveMcEwan Hill
      Ta for the reply.
      I know what HYFUD is and ostensibly why he is here, I just genuinely want to know his actual position, try and tease it out. Because he has taken no position whatsoever. There are a couple of viable ones available to him, but he is bereft of the bottle to pick one. His ilk are legion and it would be interesting (to me) to understand how they think.
      If he would have the courage of his convictions or some semblance of logic, then lets hear it. Its not possible to debate or understand without clarification. It’s also impossible for HYFUD to do so. Yet despite enquiring a couple of times. The silence is deafening.
      Conclusion : A Fud, who knows nothing of what he speaks and knows even less his own mind.
      Push the Unionist agenda hard as he wishes it is nothing but cowardly bluster. A very poor debater. He should find a more courageous comrade to come on and do better.

    206. Petra says:

      @ yesindyref2 ……. “Princess Anne.”

      They (thousands of people) had to have someone to salute today. Looks as though Princess Anne drew the short straw. TBH I was absolutely gobsmacked that the Queen jiggered off after the Royals and politicians had laid their wreaths, so much for caring for her loyal servants. The living that is, the ones that can still sing God save the Queen at the top of their voices.

      …………………

      @ thepnr …….. “Nothing as yet.”

      Thanks for that thepnr. This seems to be a new ‘thing’ as I noticed Nana mention it recently.

    207. Thepnr says:

      @Petra

      The “comment is awaiting moderation” has happened to me just the once since the site seems to have been overhauled. I think it is just exactly the same filtering of comments as happened before but instead this time you are told that your post might have broken the rules.

      My post eventually appeared but that takes human intervention, in other words I guess the Rev has to look in his “filter” folder and manually read the comments before deciding to approve them or not.

      A pretty difficult task for one man to do 24 hours a day. It’s an absolute nuisance when I happens to you, but now I just shrug. It could be worse.

    208. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Iain mhor @ 19:06,

      Yes, I’ve tried to do the same thing with a previous “visitor” or two, but they never respond, because fundamentally they’re not interested in a genuine debate in which their own preconceptions come under scrutiny. They just want to propagandise them, and in a manner deliberately intended to antagonise a perceived “enemy”.

      Whenever you try to pin them down on specifics, they either ignore the point entirely by failing to respond or they duck & dive onto some diversional irrelevance instead.

      Probably because their beliefs are houses built on sand, or they are outright manipulative liars. Knaves or fools.

      Maybe their interventions also have a secondary purpose of self-justification. They’re probably trying most of all to convince themselves.

    209. Petra says:

      Thanks for that thepnr. Over four hours now so I’m just going to try splitting it up.

      ……………………………………………….

      Oh I see that we have moved onto another thread already!

      Anyway thanks for the links Nana such as Indyref2’s (11:13am) which outlines that the People’s Vote is NOT another EUref no matter how much the BBC try to ”confuse” people. ”The ‘People’s Vote’ campaign is not calling for another vote on whether the UK should leave the European Union. It is seeking a vote on the final Brexit deal.”

      It also looks as though Scottish Farmers (11:13am) and landowners are beginning to see the light. ‘Adrian Hill, of Woodside Farm, Brougham, a former non-executive director of Harrison and Hetherington, whose wife, and her siblings, own Tayvallich Estate in Argyll, predicted that the Tory Party would suffer rural electoral losses as a result of its plans for a ‘Green brexit’. ”Without us the Tory Party will die,” he (Hill) predicted. Next up our fishermen (hopefully).

    210. Petra says:

      @ Robert Louis says at 7:41 am … ”Petra I have just read through the draft declaration of independence, and I have to say, despite the urge to referendum, is the time not coming very soon, when it will simply be in Scotland’s best interests to simply declare independence.”…

      Thanks for the Grousebeater link RL. A great piece of work, however I’m not an advocate of UDI. Can you imagine the furore that would cause if we couldn’t prove that over 50% of Scots supported Independence?

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2018/11/10/a-declaration-of-independence/

      The time IS coming soon, in particular if we can get some crucial, influential data, such as a Rev’s ‘coloured’ book, out to every household in Scotland. The sooner we hold a MASSIVE crowdfunder to do so the better, imo. Supporting / joining the SNP would also help as highlighted in Peter Bell’s article (Nana 11:13am).

      https://peterabell.blog/2018/11/10/this-is-our-fight/

    211. Petra says:

      @ Cubby says at 12:12 pm ….. ”I think what we need is draft constitution for an Independent Scotland. It would contrast with the UK and its ” no written constitution”.”

      A number of groups / individuals have been working on this for quite some time Cubby, including Professor Mark McNaught.

      http://constitutionalcommission.org/blog/?p=217

      There’s seemingly an up to date draft of Mark McNaught’s ‘Scottish Constitution’ on IndyCar Ross’s Facebook page which I can’t access.

    212. Petra says:

      ‘Old interview backs up nurse’s suspicions about Willie McRae’s bullet wound.’

      …”Former family doctor Fergie McRae, pictured below, said he closely examined his brother as he lay unconscious in hospital shortly before he died in April 1985 and described the fatal bullet wound as being at the back of his neck under his hairline.”…

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17215424.old-interview-backs-up-nurses-suspicions-about-willie-mcraes-bullet-wound/?ref=mr&lp=3

      ………………………………………………………….

      ‘UN: Scotland is more committed to human rights than England.’

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/17215628.un-scotland-is-more-committed-to-human-rights-than-england/?ref=mr&lp=4

    213. HYUFD says:

      Yesindyref2 No as the invocation of the royal prerogative would have come only AFTER the Leave vote in the official EU referendum to leave the EU and that referendum or its outcome was never challenged by the EU, whether Article 50 was implemented by the Executive or Parliament it was implementing the voters’ verdict in a referendum not declaring UDI from a governing body which had refused to accept an independence vote or allow an official independence referendum.

    214. HYUFD says:

      Ian Mhor My ultimate position as I have said before is I support devomax for Scotland’s Parliament and an English Parliament within the UK

    215. HYUFD says:

      Westminster would then become the Federal UK Parliament

    216. Cubby says:

      Petra 8.58pm

      Thanks for your comments re a Scottish constitution. If this is done well it should highlight what we are missing being part of the UK.

    217. Cubby says:

      Britnat liars promising devomax or a federal government. What a joke. There should have been a 100 year anniversary for when they first promised home rule.

    218. yesindyref2 says:

      @HYUFD
      I ran your posting through google translate and it said:

      “Qué montón de mierda”

    219. Thepnr says:

      LOL and I didn’t need a translator 🙂

    220. Cubby says:

      Yesindyref2@10.46pm

      Best comment of the weekend.

    221. yesindyref2 says:

      🙂



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