The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

The Winter Of Independence

Posted on October 03, 2023 by

Following on from that unforgettable summer:

We’re sure that, like us, you can hardly wait.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

0 to “The Winter Of Independence”

  1. sarah

    Guigliano’s “cunning plan” is almost funny…

    ..if deepest dark despair is what makes you laugh.

    However it will be interesting to see how much support the faithful Conference attendees give it.

  2. John Main

    by the end of the year

    Aha, I think I see the wiggle room.

    Fit year?

    In fact, fit end?

  3. President Xiden

    Instead they bought a camper van and allowed male rapists into women’s prisons.

  4. Dek

    Tragedy. They are so useless ?

  5. Johnlm

    Steady on!
    This is a bit radical! – promoting voices from all sectors?
    Better vote for a ‘Remit back’

  6. Geri


    Devolutionists are in charge of the plan for Independence?
    What could possibly go wrong?
    Why wait until the end of the year? Is Santa bringing them some inspiration?

    Tick tock..

  7. velofello

    If the text had stated ..the end of THIS year… I might have believed him. But then reading further … the SNP will work partnership with Yes groups and organisations …names, names, give me names…of other organisations.

  8. James Jones

    “Amendment B. Add at end.”

    ‘Um… shouldn’t we have something about independence?’

    You’d think the ‘Minister for Independence would have thought of that.

  9. ScottieDog

    They’re waiting to catch the 2024. That’s the number of the gravy bus that just appeared on the horizon..

  10. George Ferguson

    If I ranked comedy sketches into a top ten. Blackadder would be at least half of them. On the substantive point of Stus post. The SNP mantra has been since 2015 vote for us and secure Independence. An ulterior motive is at play. Vote for the SNP to bankroll the chosen few. There is no evidence that the SNP are an Independence party. I am an ex SNP member twice over (decades apart) and I absolutely get why SNP members especially on this blog still believe. Put two pencils up your nose and be free.

  11. Karen

    Rev, your logo looks a bit pale blue and pink on my emails from you, just in case you weren’t aware…

  12. Eddie Munster

    Ah a great plan by the SNP, also known as The People’s Front of Judea.

  13. John Le Scot

    That Blackadder sketch was absolutely on the money – “by doing the same thing again as the last 17 times, we’re going to catch them off their guard” !!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  14. Effijy

    Yes, this time, unlike every other time, might just be the time when the time is right!

    What a waste of time trying to fool a small minority gullible enough to swallow it.

    The SNP vote will plummet like a stone because no political party stays in power for 20 years
    and they wasted mandate after mandate after mandate.

    They did not fight the Westminster corruption the Tory death by austerity and cutbacks nor Scotland being withdrawn from Europe against our will.

    Cry wolf once too often and you get eaten.

    We find any chance of a major independence campaign a decade or more away and it was getting the big choices wrong.

    Salmond stitch up, Trans Rule, Account discrepancies, Mobile Homes, bottle return schemes that returned to bite them and the tax payer on the ass.

  15. Luigi

    But I thought that we will win our independence on 19th October as promised?

    Oh I get it, it’s just a fake winter plan, a cunning ruse to throw the unionists off the trail, let them relax up to the 18th October and then we catch them completely off guard? Very clever.

    So we still stick with Plan A, yes? Yes? Hello? Hello?…..

  16. Tommo

    Awesome-can you even imagine the intellect that could encompass a concept like that ?

  17. Ian McCubbin

    It is getting so predictable and sadly laughable. Makes it harder for serious independendistas.

  18. Merganser

    If the SNP vote to change their name to something else, there won’t be an SNP party to carry out this resolution. So they can pass it and make it reduntant at one conference if they want.


  19. paul

    It’s a great idea,all it needs is motivated leadership skilled in firing up its membership and the wider community.

    None of these fairly important resources are in play until BIS have battle hardened their great 1000 and the NEC have laid down another bullet proof 11 point plan.

    Which I fully expect to emerge from this winter of malcontent

  20. robertkknight

    There must be an election on the horizon…

    I have a cunning plan… Let’s join forces with everything and anything that has even the slightest whiff of independence to it and the half-wits, who despite everything still think that the SNP is pro-Indy, will be easily persuaded to lend the SNP their vote!

    An excellent plan! mehhhhhhh…

  21. Jason Smoothpiece

    I can smell shite.

  22. Red

    A man called Toni, aye?

  23. AnneDon

    There must be another election in the offing if the NuSNP are driven to mention OTHER parts of the Yes movement.

  24. Red

    Merganser says:
    3 October, 2023 at 8:07 pm
    If the SNP vote to change their name to something else,

    Both Humza the Humzarian and Nicola “Ah Cannae Recall” Sturgeon have gone on the record in past interviews that they really don’t care for the name Scottish National Party.

    It’s a legacy brand they have to keep for fundraising purposes (Tony Blair is a very clever man), but neither of them are nationalists and they don’t seem to particularly like Scottish people on a personal, human level.

    They like to Party though.

    I love and admire Alex Salmond, but he could pick em.

  25. Marco McGinty

    So, the SNP and many of its vile supporters, who have purposefully alienated other pro-indy groups and thousands of individuals, demonised them, jailed them, tried to jail others, called everybody that disagreed with them as unionists, fifth columnists, agents of the British state, etc, etc, now want us back on board!?

    Well sorry, but you can jog on, you bunch of scumbags.

    If there is another IndyRef, and if I am able to help out this time, I will be doing so with a clear distance between myself and any SNP representative.

    Even our once vibrant local Yes branch is nothing more than a SNP-controlled sham, run by a particularly hypocritical, Humza-supporting individual/SNP member.

  26. George Ferguson

    @Red 9:08pm
    I would agree that the annoited succession of Nicola Sturgeon was a mistake by Alex Salmond but how many SNP MPs and MSPs did we have to curtail her excesses?. What did they do? I count on one hand. Few can claim atonement. I knew in 2015 she was a wrong un. And not a true Independence supporter. Alex Salmonds only blemish on an otherwise faultless career.

  27. Robert Hughes

    Now is the summer of our disconnect , made vainglorious winter by this son of Pork .

    Looking forward to the Spring Inoffensive already .

    I assume Autumn was too tired to be given a part in the kids’ seasonally-themed fun n games

  28. Wullie Halliday

    This independence thingy always seems to rear its ugly head when an election is looming.

  29. Geoff Anderson

    Mobilising the YES Groups……We will control the YES Groups, We will direct the YES Groups.

    Well it looks like immigration for me. I would probably never have seen Indy anyway but to experience the shameful humiliation of Scotland during the last years of the SNP would be too much. The TransCult flag flying at Holyrood. Then a Labour/SNP coalition. Followed a few years later by the closure of Holyrood.

    Perhaps we could all meet in 10years to remember what could have been. We could meet at the Nicola Sturgeon Statue on Stonewall Square in old Glasgow (Now Progress City). Pride season should be avoided January to December.

    The direction of travel will be settled on Thursday but I fear the Sturgeon spell has not waned.

  30. Ron Clark

    Both English (spit) teams gubbed in Europe tonight.

    Man u and Arsenal,,,,just in case you were interested.

    Thought I would throw that one in there.

    Nice wee ending to the day, don’t you think?

    Oh how wee laughed.

  31. Geri

    Marco 9:22pm

    Don’t forget homophobic, racist, vile scum, the absolute dregs of society, Jeremy Hunts & who can forget dinosaurs who should just leave – so we did lol!

    They can whistle Dixie. They’ve made an absolute arse of Holyrood & this little ruse of working with others only now is because the writing is on the wall.

    Just a recap..

    GRR, Juryless trials, bottle return, HPMAs, Duelling A9, Fergus, Ash, Margaret, Angus, hiring a cabinet of idiots, raffles to attend a foreign kings party, giving away the stone under cloak of secrecy, snubbing AUOB, snubbing Scotland United, rapists in women’s prisons, Hate Crime Bill & lest we forget, risking all of devoluion settlement by being the only dunce to have a section 35 issued against the parliament over something they have no mandate for. The news Sturgeon fcked up the Smith commission & finally the alpha Betties & Salmond.

    A vote for the SNP is a vote for more perverted GRR bullshit & Sturgeon running Scotland via her idiot puppet front man.

    I can’t wait until they’re all gone. All of them. They can all fck off now. They’ve had their chance to jump or stand in solidarity with suspensions & chose not to.
    I also hope we’ve seen the back of Harvie & the Greens.

  32. Morgatron

    Snakes and ladders for the blind and bewildered.

  33. Oneliner

    Is Toni Giugliano related to Topo Gigio?

  34. Breeks

    Any takers for Impeachment yet?

    None of this shite, neither the t r e a c h e r y of our MSP’s, nor the bogus legitimacy of Westminster’s Constitutional authority are remotely compatible with the Scotland’s popular sovereignty and the Claim of Right. If one exists, by definition, the other cannot.

    Using Holyrood, and this inadequate and dysfunctional SNP, is akin to fighting a duel with Westminster when Scotland’s weapon of choice is a water pistol.

    Heads up people, it is the alien, invasive and unconstitutional doctrine of London rule via Westminster’s Scotland Act, which disarms Scotland constitutionally, spikes our lawful and extant sovereign legitimacy, and imposes upon Scotland the pure theatre of a mock “Parliament” which was designed to forever kneel down to Westminster.

    Those cowards we elect to Holyrood are no fkg use to us whatsoever, but! – they are a fundamental necessity to the London Government, which then showers faux “democratic” legitimacy upon the Vichy Holyrood Assembly, the “Scottish Parliament”, which the London Government designed to be it’s subordinate.

    Rise up Scotland. Close “their” fkg Parliament. Impeach the damn thing as an insult and an affront to Scotland’s sovereign constitution. Do that, and bring to an end an invasive and colonial misadventure which should NEVER have been recognised from it’s date of inception due to the proven acts of bribery, corruption and coercion which delivered it.

    There’s even now talk of rehabilitating the Sturgeon creature, and all can I deduce from that is that MI5 are so intoxicated by their complete and absolute success wrecking Scottish Independence that Sturgeon’s resurrection would be the cherry on the cake, marking their total dominance over Scotland’s political landscape, and unchallenged capacity to make sure Scotland remains emasculated and incapable of raising any challenge to Westminster’s faux authority.

    SALVO is correct. The politicians must be made to listen.

    Scotland NEEDS an emergency Convention of the Estates, a temporary but powerful task force, assembled and codified under the Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution and ONLY Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution, and then, for that Convention of the Estates to challenge and defeat the great colonial misadventure of Westminster rule under a FALSE Union, which has allowed Scotland to be duped, indoctrinated, and plundered of it’s wealth, life force and prosperity for over three hundred years.

    Holyrood is not “our” Parliament, it is London’s colonial outpost in the sovereign realm of Scotland. It has no more right to exist in Scotland than the Roman encampments and fortifications which tried to subdue Caledonia 2000 years ago. They came to take things from us too.

    The 1998 Scotland Act might as well have been written by a Roman Emperor. Same fkg difference.

    Don’t be fooled that the pickets are garrisoned with those useful idiots in the SNP. Those stalwarts of probity are an essential component of the illusion. Westminster needs someone to bow, just like Edward 1 needed John Bailliol to bow, and thus all Scotland acceded to his demands.

    Holyrood was there to be won for Scotland, but we blew it. Westminster have been far more successful, far more focussed and determined, in imposing their will upon Scotland than the hapless wretches and gutless charlatans which we elected to deliver Scotland from it’s shameful purgatory.

    Scotland awaits the intervention, and salvation, which ONLY a. properly codified Convention of the Estates can deliver. Over to you SALVO.

  35. Ron Clark

    Geri 11.02pm

    Excellent post.

    Cannae wait tae no vote SNP at next year’s UK General election.

    Who are the most detested in Scotland nowadays?

    1/ The SNP?
    2/ Unionist Parties?
    3/ The English?

    Tough choice,,,but you can only choose one.

    I must admit, I’m struggling to pick between the SNP and the English,,,something that would never have happened in the days before Sturgeon took over. It would have been a simple choice,,,it would have been the detested English all day long.

  36. twathater

    As usual Breeks the TRUTH will set us free BUT I’m afraid it won’t come from politicians , you only have to look at the fecal matter infesting HR to see that

    And TBQH I don’t see it coming from ALBA either, a very many people (myself excluded voted these scum back in in 2021 under the advice of Alex Salmond) the PLAN was to inflate the independence representation to a super majority, SURPRISE, SURPRISE sturgeon said fuck off

    NOW!!!!! the PLAN is to form a united front or Scotland United with the very same people who ALREADY told REAL independence supporters to Fuck Off is there maybe a wee problem wae that plan , imagine giving that moron Humza credibility

    Since the ALBA convention where Sara Salyers was feted and held in great esteem by the assembled crowd for her investigations and pronouncements of the COR , it now appears that SALVO have fallen out of favour with the party hierarchy and the UNITY talked about is ONLY for the political parties
    I had this vision (stupid of me I know) that every independence party would align and embrace SALVO and Liberation.Scot (The People) and would go forward with a concerted and united front to fight for our independence, with SALVO representing and concentrating on the legal challenge of the COR wholly SUPPORTED and INCLUDED within ALL the independence parties
    BUT it appears that politicians as usual want ALL THE POWER because the riff raff are just too stupid

    It looks like another 300+ years of disunity

  37. Willie

    Ah joogliano he’s the golden boy gerrymandeted candidate for the Dumbarton constituency at the last Hollyrood election. And boy what a foul gerrymander selection process it was with vetting binning local candidates, appeals be manipulated, hustings being cancelled to be replaced by head office iniated gusting. And lock outs from meeting, manipulation of member notifications.

    And then with the golden boy in place in a constituency where the sitting Labour MP had a majority of majorities of only 97 votes our man against the trend belly flopped big time by losing and allowing the sitting MSP to increase her majority to nearly 2,000 votes.

    Of course that’s not his only belly flop. The Edinburgh based Joogliano is a serial failure and part of the woke, trans supporting, gay activist, loon all greeny typwme type that have no real job, no real interest in independence.

    A digital and print campaign he says! Oh really Joogly is what we need to secure independence. Do you really think that’s what’s needed and how the SNP will deliver independence.

    An old adage is maybe that of empty bottles. And Joogly certainly is that.

    But let’s wait for Thursday and the Rutherglen and Hamilton by election. Big big message heading for Joogly and his green bottles sitting on the wall. Or is the analogy of all the King’s horses and all the King’s men not being able to put Humpty Dumpty together again the better analogy.

  38. Breeks

    twathater says:
    4 October, 2023 at 2:53 am

    And TBQH I don’t see it coming from ALBA either…

    The problem is, to circumvent the established system, can be easily portrayed as a failure to win by the rules so resolve to change the rules to pockle a win.

    By putting all our faith into Scotland’s sovereignty, we might be opening Pandora’s Box if we deny ourselves the use of the Westminster protocols for electing democratic representatives. What mechanism, what money, what infrastructure would we have at our disposal if the Faculty of Advocates wasn’t on side, and Local Authorities were also hostile to the initiative?

    I believe I can recognise the two scenarios. We have a white knuckle ride with SALVO, or we keep SALVO as our last resort, and pander to the politicians who recognise that Scottish Democracy is already there as an integral component of UK democracy, and power for Scotland to act independently can yet be unravelled from this clumsy and dysfunctional UK democracy.

    I believe those politicians, Salmond included, believe Auld Scotland’s integrity is, pardon the expression, “woven through” the system we call UK democracy, and that a radical SALVO style initiative risks discrediting, and in fact denying ourselves, the parliamentary tools and mechanisms which can theoretically deliver Scottish Independence just by voting our way out of the quagmire.

    Essentially, SALVO is saying the system is broken and corrupt, so let’s ditch it and start afresh from founding principles.

    The politicians are saying hold on, if we burn the system to the ground, we’d also destroy Scottish mechanisms which could truncate the whole process of Independence and see Scotland’s sovereign constitution emerging out from the bourach that is the UK constitution.

    In essence, it’s a simple choice. Scotland is Constitutionally dysfunctional; do we burn it all down and start again, or do we take what is dysfunctional and make it function?

    I have a foot in both camps. My position is that only Scotland’s sovereign Constitution has the power to disentangle Scotland’s rights.

    When I advocate impeachment, I am serious, but I actually envisage a Holyrood (and indeed Westminster), quaking in their boots at the threat of actual impeachment, and Scotland’s sovereignty used as leverage to see our rights respected, and ultimate arbiter wherever agreement cannot be found.

    What we need is a Summit, a Constitutional Convention, where the YES Movement doesn’t get out the building until we have cohesive strategy which is robust and deliverable, and has anticipated the route we take to Independence.

    That kinda is the strategy… A Scotland United, which will contest a UK Election, but imbue the result with SALVO style power and legitimacy to recognise Scottish Democracy as something separate, and separable, from UK Democracy.

    Sadly the obnoxious delinquents in the SNP didn’t read the fkg memo, and by accident or design, they’re going to fuck things up for Scotland once again.

  39. Stoker

    Whilst saying a lot that “plan” by Giugliano says absolutely nothing. A very serious lack of detail and a serious insult to the intelligence of anyone with a at least a single braincell. Technically they are already doing what it states. And as we all know that is the grand sum of fuck-all.

    The other “groups” and “organisations” are The Scottish Greens, The Gender Mob, SNP branches, The National, Believe In Scotland (which i believe is another set-up by the same individual behind Scotland The Brief and Business For Scotland, GMK) and Westminster (because, as they’ve stated, they can’t do anything without London’s permission).

    So that’s what they truly mean when they deceptively announce they will work with other groups & organisations. The very same ones they currently work with.

    Until i see, with my own eyes, them presenting a representative group of folk that encompasses all the major players (including Alex Salmond & Stuart Campbell) i will not even begin to contemplate giving them my vote. Anything less is just smoke-&-mirrors to con us out of our votes, *AGAIN*.

    Salmond must be put in charge of heading that group as he is the only person with a history of delivering a referendum. Yes, give Yousaf his place (it’s called diplomacy) by accepting the group are answerable to him but Salmond must be the one tasked with spearheading our drive to indy, not some unknown lightweight such as Toni Giuliano.

    And when the task has been achieved, that very same group must be integral to our indy negotiations and the creation of our new written constitution etc.

    But there’s not even the slightest chance of this happening for as long as the rancid smell of rotten Sturgeon is present. And that includes her ‘Useless’ impotent puppet.

  40. Robert Louis

    Everybody knows it is 99% certain there will be a UK general election early next year, probs May.

    The SNP have no clear strategy aside from doing what they did before. They simply refuse to even work with other pro independence parties, and sneer at many independence groups who refuse to indulge nonsense and drink the ‘gender ideology’ Kool-Aid.

    No, the main objective for the SNP is getting bums back on the green benches at Westminster, so we can have another five years of doing nothing but whining at how unfair it all is.

    Westminster treats Scotland with utter, utter contempt. Westminster does NOT play by the rules. It serves the interests of England alone. It is time for a radical plan.

    Sadly, the SNP as the devolution party, are quite happy to just let things continue as they are. They have NO sense of urgency regarding independence. No sense of the palpable anger of people like myself, who was until a few years ago IN the SNP, attending conferences and voting SNP.

    Humza the useless, and his coterie of no-hopers, really, really needs to sniff the coffee and wake the feck up. We don’t want another five years of whining, utterly pathetic speeches in Westminster. We want independence, we want one constitutional crisis after another, to make London squirm.

    Playing by London’s rules WILL NOT WORK. FFS, do something!

  41. Captain Yossarian

    After the Sturgeon and Swinney years, Scotland’s government, civil-service and professions have been hollowed-out and are practically worthless. A re-set is now required. Branchform might provide that, but it might now. If it doesn’t, and Branchform is seen to fail, then I think that Nationalism in Scotland is dead. Sure, plenty still want it to happen, but there will be no trusted vehicle to make it happen and so the project will die from a thousand cuts.

  42. John Main

    If only there was some way to harness the time and energy expended on this blog. It’s quite exhausting to read all the lengthy screeds of detailed planning and nit picking put together by those who have no input or say whatsoever in Scotland’s future.

    I just can’t wait for the impeachment and the Convention of the Estates. I intend to be in it. No way this time around is it going to be rammed with the Flag Wavers, the SNP 1 & 2 brigade, or the thought-free cultists who paved the road that brought us to pretendy FM Yousaf prancing the international stage, giving away Scotland’s tartan taxes to grifters.

    By all means burn everything down and start over. But the iron rule for the Scottish Phoenix must be: previous incumbents and associates need not apply, whether Sovereign Scots or not.

    Scotland is still hoaching with Sovereign Scots who are free of culpability for the disasters and disgraces of the past decade. It’s our turn next.

  43. Stoker

    AnneDon says on 3 October 2023 at 9:01 pm: “There must be another election in the offing if the NuSNP are driven to mention OTHER parts of the Yes movement.”

    AnneDon, see my comments further up-thread at 7:03 am. They could simply be referring to their current partners in crime, The Scottish Greens and the various gender mobs. The more things change the more they stay the same. The devil is in the detail and that waffle from Toni Guigliano seriously lacks any detail. That should be enough to set alarm bells ringing at a deafening level. They are attempting to deceive us yet again. There’s more to be said in what’s not being said. 😉

  44. John Main

    @Willie says:4 October, 2023 at 5:50 am

    But let’s wait for Thursday and the Rutherglen and Hamilton by election. Big big message heading for

    Sure Willie.

    The day after there will be 43 useless SNP troughers at WM instead of 44. And 197 Starmerites in waiting, where presently we only have 196.

    Nurse, ma herts racing oot o control, fetch the sedatives!

    It’s a free country Willie, and you are of course at liberty to believe this is going to be a BIG DAY FOR SCOTLAND. The MSM will want you to believe that. Defo.

    Soz, bit ah really hae ma doots.

  45. Milady

    Slightly off topic but there are a couple of posters on here that espouse a real hatred for “the English”. Petty zenophobic comments have no place here surely? No Scot I know hates “the English”, and my desire for Independence has zero to do with that. Wanting a football team to get beat because they are an English team is about as pathetic as you get (most top flight teams are also not staffed by Englishmen either!). Honestly it is getting harder to say whether it’s the useless SNP, the Scottish Civil Rights zoomers, or some anti English nutcases who are annoying me the most right now. None of them are winning us friends or helping achieve Indy that’s for sure!

  46. Mac

    I feel like why are we even talking about the SNP anymore. Every time I remember they made the author of The Vow the CEO of the party, I remember that I want the SNP politically annihilated. Scoured from the face of the earth.

    The independence movement will be reborn and thrive. It is being suffocated by the SNP.

    The SNP is no longer a vehicle for independence, it was systematically and methodically ruined by a rat at the top. People need to accept this reality and deal with it.

    Now the SNP is a vehicle for grifters and other rats. It is too far gone and they only way to save it is to first burn it down.

    When you are being overrun, and the SNP totally has been, it is the precise moment to ‘call in an air strike on your own position’.

    And if we do get them on the run, DO NOT show them any mercy, do not hesitate, nor feel sorry for them, nor think ‘no wait maybe we can save them’… you can’t. They have to be wiped out because that is exactly what they have been trying to do to you. You have been ethnically cleansed from your own party by these imposter troughers. Be raging, be ruthless, because you should be.

  47. wullie

    IMHO . I really think that all political parties have taken a leaf out of the sexual predarors handbook. They are merely grooming gangs. They have certainly fkd Scotland good and proper.


    And as we go over the top again with the enemy splitting their sides with glee, do NOT call us «nationalist»!

  49. McDuff

    If the Titanic represented the independence movement the SNP was the iceberg.

  50. Red

    George Ferguson says:
    3 October, 2023 at 9:30 pm
    @Red 9:08pm
    I would agree that the annoited succession of Nicola Sturgeon was a mistake by Alex Salmond but how many SNP MPs and MSPs did we have to curtail her excesses?. What did they do? I count on one hand. Few can claim atonement. I knew in 2015 she was a wrong un. And not a true Independence supporter. Alex Salmonds only blemish on an otherwise faultless career.

    Alex also promoted a palpably dim 27 year old with no work experience whatsoever – not even a paper round – to be Minister for Europe and International Development.

    His name was Humza Yousaf.

  51. Red

    Turabdin: The National says “Many within the SNP feel uncomfortable with the nationalist label”

    Ah told yeez.

  52. Mac

    Watching that Blackadder sketch…

    “Would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of our trenches and walking very slowly towards the enemy?”

    It is amazing and horrific to me that more than 100 years after that insanity of routinely sending hundreds of thousand of young men on what amounted to suicide missions, that we are seeing the exact same thing taking place today.

    And Britain is apparently the most rabid for it. ‘We’ write the actor’s speeches and he has MISix bodyguards. So Butcher Haig really is alive and well in spirit in the UK, and thriving. Nothing has changed, the are just using using up someone else’s youth in their meat grinder. Col MacGregor is saying five hundred thousand have been killed with two to three times that badly injured.

    Wave after wave, repeating the same failed tactics, over and over again, press gangs kidnapping people off the streets…

    That just amounts to a genocide. Maybe that was what WWI was really all about as well…


    This is Black History Month, whatever that may mean, however as English history and culture is 24/7 in the «UK» what about a Scottish History month, fortnight, week, day, hour, minute, second, nano second. A token gesture maybe?
    Perhaps the ScotNats, ooops no offence meant, might think about that for the blink of an eye and propose that to their masters.

  54. Mac

    When I see remnant old (SNP) timers still talking about ‘saving the party after the by election’ I feel a bit sickened, like I am listening to someone whose spouse died a month ago but they mentally can’t accept it, and have been going to bed at night with the corpse ever since… what can you say to them.

    They need to wake up and smell the corpse they are clinging to.

  55. robertkknight

    Seems to be the case that the virtue signalling on the part of the SNP in order to garner support, finance and foot soldiers from today’s yoof, and rainbow warrior clan in particular, needs to be balanced by throwing traditional supporters of Indy a bone, in the form of a vapid motion to conference.

    Perhaps they forgot that in trying to poach the Woke university types from the Greens, they neglected their core support – tens of thousands of which picked up their saltires and walked away, taking their membership subs and their votes with them.

    The devotees of devolution and their gender woo-woo bed partners have destroyed any prospect of Indy for a decade at least and should be punished accordingly. In other words, if you’ve no ALBA or ISP candidate on your ballot paper, be sure to scrawl “F-Off SNP” all over it!

    (On the subject of “F-Off”… Ron Clark, away and “F-Off” to the BNP, SNG, Orange Order or wherever else racist tw@ts like you gather in numbers. I don’t care what you claim to be, a racist, irrespective of geographic origin or political persuasion, isn’t worth the steam off my Lab’s pish on a raw February morning).

  56. Bob Mack

    The people’s desire to be free comes a poor second to a party’s need to survive apparently. One thing is sure though. The winds of change favour no one in particular and inevitably those who stand in the way of the people will be swept aside.

    Only a matter of time.

  57. Ruby

    Milady says:
    4 October, 2023 at 8:58 am

    Slightly off topic but there are a couple of posters on here that espouse a real hatred for “the English”. Petty zenophobic comments have no place here surely?

    I have some serious doubts about these hate crimes which seem to have started with the racist hate crimes.

    I wonder where it’s all going to end.

    Misogynistic hate crime to be introduced soon.

    The white agnostic heterosexual male is the only one left without being fully covered by hate crimes.

    Will we see a Misandry hate crime being introduced?

    Had Patrick Harvie been heterosexual and someone had shouted ‘deviant’ there would have been no hate crime.

    If a woman is slapped the police can attend and just tell the attacker not to do that however if a transwoman is slapped then the police have to press charges because it’s a hate crime.

    So Milady I won’t be joining in condemnation of petty zenophobic comments here or anywhere else.

    If people want to hate the English, the French, the Russians I say let them.
    However if they act on that hate and commit a crime then and only then should they be charged with a crime.

  58. PhilM

    Liz Lloyd
    star of stage and screen
    “In Like Flint”
    (more to follow)

  59. Breeks

    Liz Lloyd writing the New Statesman…

    I only read a couple of lines before reaching for the sick bucket…

    It’s almost like the old guard jockeying for influence and relevance in the Post-Rutherglen landscape, just in case the SNP needs a tourniquet or two…

    Or God help us, the rehabilitation of the Sturgeon creature.

  60. Ruby

    TURABDIN says:
    4 October, 2023 at 9:43 am

    This is Black History Month, whatever that may mean, however as English history and culture is 24/7 in the «UK» what about a Scottish History month, fortnight, week, day, hour, minute, second, nano second. A token gesture maybe?

    They could start by putting ‘Outlander’ on BBC Scotland.

  61. Ruby

    The Liz Lloyd article.

    It’s a long read. I scanned to see if there was any mention of the leak to the Daily Record or her involvement in the Alex Salmond stitch-up

    I didn’t see anything but then I scanned very, very quickly.

    I learned that:
    She met Nicola Sturgeon for coffee.
    She isn’t remotely Scottish hates bagpipes & tartan and doesn’t know anything about Scottish history.

  62. John Main

    @Mac says:4 October, 2023 at 9:43 am

    That just amounts to a genocide

    Soz, an a’ that, but I don’t unnerstand. What amounts to a genocide?

    Are you really saying that the only response to aggression must be total, complete, unconditional submission?

    What a charmed life you must lead, if that’s really working out for you.

    But that aside, this is a Scottish Indy site. We Scots could try total, complete, unconditional submission, but then we won’t get Indy. Ever.

    You need to get your heid in gear.

  63. Merganser

    Breeks @ 10.32.

    I got as far as looking at the photograph and couldn’t go any further. The eyes tell it all. The hider of secrets taking the piss. One day the truth will out. Can’t wait to see her picture when that happens.

  64. John Main

    @TURABDIN says:4 October, 2023 at 9:43 am

    what about a Scottish History month

    That’s a great idea! And what an orgy of reality denying, facts twisting posts on here would result, as the awkward truths were uttered and the entrenched myths of many of the regular posters shattered.


    1 The Declaration of Arbroath and what it really meant to Scots who weren’t landed aristocracy.

    2 Culloden, and who the Scots were on either side, and why.

    3 The reality of the Darien Scheme and its aftermath.

    4 1707, the Union, its constitutional power in law through the centuries to the present day.

    5 Scotland in the 18th and 19th centuries – driver of British Imperialist colonialism.

    I winna be haudin ma breath!

  65. Chas

    Wings is an Independence supporting site. Very anti SNP, which I welcome, but I am not 100% certain of what political Party it actually is in favour of! I could be wrong but I am not on this site every and all day. Some of us have a life.
    Most of those who post here seem to be supporters of the Alba Party, or some similar offshoot, and share a strong dislike of the SNP and it’s grifters in power. Many have now ‘seen the light’ having previously supported the SNP in the past. Some seem to have an obsessive hatred of ‘the English’, which to me, sums up the inadequacies of the individual posters. The bulk of ‘the English’ are in the same boat as the majority of Scots in disliking their politicians and wanting change, whatever that is.
    Scotland/UK/Europe/the World is currently broken and it will take years, if ever, to rectify anything.
    In Scotland, getting rid of the SNP will solve nothing although ditching the loons in the Green Party would be a start. Where is the new Government in waiting that will change life, for the majority, for the better in Scotland?
    Just over 30% of the electorate voted for the SNP at the last General Election. Alba and the other offshoots would possibly gain 2% of the vote today. Most people have no real interest in politics other than to moan constantly about the inadequacies, dishonesty and wastefulness of the politicians themselves. As John Main often quotes-SHOW THEM THE MONEY and things might change. In the real world it is all about CASH. If you have it you can do things, if you haven’t…………..
    The nutters on here can write about 300 year old shite and colonialism guff umpteen times every single day and receive the plaudits from their fellow nutters, but this is of no interest to at least 95% of the electorate. I suspect that it actually prohibits sensible, rational and progressive debate.
    For change to happen there has to be something better to supersede it. Where is it? Who is even attempting to tell us what it could be?
    We are all in for a long time in the wilderness. Most people will accept that I am correct however a few will see it as the ramblings of a Unionist or a troll. Such is life in our brave, forward thinking Scotland.

  66. Grouser

    Blackadder really sums up what the SNP have been doing since 2015. When I began to realise this I wrote to my MP and my MSP specifically blaming them for sitting back and letting the SNP be taken over by the Clique. No response, of course. And my resignation followed after the infamous takeover of the NEC by the spoilt weans and troughers of the party.
    The Hate Crime Act was passed and the Gender Reform Act was passed in the teeth of criticism that they were bad laws. The Bill to prevent protesters harrassing vulnerable women seeking an abortion was introduced in May 2022. It appears to have sunk without trace. It certainly has not been subject to intense activity by the leaders of the Scottish Government to get it passed.
    Yesterday there was a group of these protesters outside the Southern General Hospital opposite the Maternity Unit entrance. The Scottish Government is leaving vulnerable women to face these people alone. But what the heck? They are demonstrably humans of the female sex (not gender) so what do they matter?
    I’ve emailed my MSP, Humza Yousaf, about this demanding to know what is being done to progress the Bill and when the Bill might become law. On past experience of emailing the constituency office I will not hold my breath for a reply, even an automated response reply.
    And to think I staffed stalls, delivered leaflets and stuffed envelopes for that man!

  67. robbo

    Heather Herbert tongue tied on CHANNEL 5 on trans issue . Winging about how bad the tans women will be banned from NHS wards by Barclay.

    Thon Storm huntly asked why the terminology used for men with prostrate blah blah.

    Should watch REV or do catch up.

    Terrible interview. clown absolute clown.

  68. Ruby

    Grouser says:

    The Scottish Government is leaving vulnerable women to face these people alone. But what the heck? They are demonstrably humans of the female sex (not gender) so what do they matter?

    It’s amazing how they think they will achieve anything without woman’s votes.

  69. Stravaiger

    @Breeks, 6:45am

    Why not do both. Start a political party alongside SALVO, where every member swears allegiance to the Scottish People and takes a vow to pursue the furtherance of Scottish independence as their primary objective. They would also swear to take only a median Scottish salary and give any extra income from an MP/MSP salary to either a Scottish charity or an approved cause in support of Independence. They would also not take their seats in Westminster as this requires an oath of allegiance to the King. Failure to comply would result in expulsion from the party and an immediate by-election.

    A party of real radicals, not troughers. If that’s not Alba, so be it.

  70. Michael Laing

    @ Chas at 11.25am:

    “In Scotland, getting rid of the SNP will solve nothing although ditching the loons in the Green Party would be a start. Where is the new Government in waiting that will change life, for the majority, for the better in Scotland?”

    I don’t know whether you are lambasting the commenters on WOS for supporting the SNP or for refusing to support them. Either way, it’s hardly the fault of independence supporters that the supposed party of independence has been wrecked, leaving no satisfactory option for supporters of independence to vote for. What exactly is your point? Who do you think we should vote for?

    “As John Main often quotes-SHOW THEM THE MONEY and things might change. In the real world it is all about CASH. If you have it you can do things, if you haven’t…………”

    The need for Scotland’s independence is not about money, it’s about democracy. We need to get the government we vote for, not the government England votes for, and if, like the SNP, it doesn’t do what it’s been elected to do, we must have the power to remove it. Nevertheless, given that all our wealth and resources are controlled by Westminster and our taxes are being spent on one London-based mega-project after another, Scotland could hardly be poorer with independence. But even if we were poorer overall, we would have the power to ensure that the wealth we do have is distributed more equally.

  71. sarah

    @ Stravaiger: only flaw re salary is that MPs who don’t take the oath do not get a salary at all.

  72. Chas

    Michael Laing

    I thought it would be fairly obvious to most people that you vote for the Party which is most likely to do the things that you want to see happening in your town/city/area/country. Some competence and honesty exhibited by the representative in whatever Party you choose would undoubtedly help. Do you see much of that just now?

    I think that you will find that Scotland currently does have the power to remove the SNP, or am I wrong? I agree that 85/90% of Scots do not rate or want the Tories. After Independence!! who would would govern Scotland and distribute the wealth, which is mainly in the hands of foreign owned companies? Most Government ‘wealth’ comes from tax-which is the most taxed country in the UK at present?

    Democracy v Money. Interesting choice there! You might favour democracy, it is your choice, but I think that the apathetic Scottish electorate would choose money. I am not certain that ‘Even if we were poorer overall’ is a sure fire vote winner!

    The only thing I see that would galvanise Scotland to really go for Independence, instead of simply giving lip service to it, would be for Westminster to announce that they were going to build a massive pipeline taking water from Scotland to London and the home counties. Given the climate change malarkey it could happen!

  73. robbo

    Chas says:
    4 October, 2023 at 1:47 pm
    Michael Laing

    “After Independence!! who would would govern Scotland and distribute the wealth, which is mainly in the hands of foreign owned companies? Most Government ‘wealth’ comes from tax-which is the most taxed country in the UK at present?”

    Oh my o my. I wonder how the other 50+ nations and countries did it.

    Jesus wept. Talk about not getting what the point of Independence is!

  74. robbo

    And to add to that.

    The thought of the UK taxing our people ,assets, resources ,local companies and international investors would come into the realm of ANCIENT 300 year-old ermmmmm GUFF that you and Mr Main keep on about.

    Get it roon ye!

  75. Stravaiger

    @sarah 12:43pm

    Fine, so be it. What’s more important- Independence or a salary for not turning up?

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)

    Stats: 6,606 Posts, 1,191,900 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

  • RSS Wings Over Scotland

  • A tall tale

↑ Top