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The totally normal country

Posted on October 14, 2022 by

Between recesses and the mourning period for the Queen, the UK Parliament has been sitting for just four weeks since the 1st of July this year.

In that time the government has somehow managed to lose three Chancellors Of The Exchequer and is about to engage its fourth in the alarming form of Jeremy Hunt, a man whose primary claim to fame and utility to the UK is as rhyming slang.

We may also be about to have our third Prime Minister in the same period.

But don’t worry, readers – the SNP is fully focused on getting you out of there.

TBH when Hunt is fired next week we fully expect Pete Wishart to apply for the job.

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    104 to “The totally normal country”

    1. Scotspine says:

      I wonder if there are “cottages” in Reykjavic?

    2. PhilM says:

      Personally, I don’t see the problem with any of this…isn’t this exactly what the independence movements/parties known to history having been doing since nations first began to emerge?
      Can I be a Member of the Scottish Parliament now please?

    3. Republicofscotland says:

      We’ve had some great opportunities to ditch this union, since Brexit the Westminster government has been in disarray in one form or another, yet neither the Scottish government nor their SNP MPs have been able to capitalise on it for the indy cause, simply because neither is really interested in Scottish independence.

      Even today the UK Tory government hasn’t got a clue with backstabbing and sackings going on and plots to oust PM’s a regular thing now. I for one think it doesn’t matter how bad it gets or how preposterous it gets at Westminster the SNP Scottish government and its SNP MPs, will cling onto the union and breathe life into it for as long as they can.

    4. Lorna Campbell says:

      The UK is imploding, not just the Tories, and we still pussyfoot around the foothills, staring up at the heights. The SNP will argue that they are laying down the groundwork for co-operation with our neighbours if we ever actually regain our independence, laying down the basic rules of engagement between an independent Scotland and the UK, etc., etc., etc.

      No country in the history of the planet has allowed the horse to bolt, then locked the stable door from the inside whilst whitewashing the walls first inside, then outside to impress the neighbours. Meanwhile said escaped horse is mangled by a huge truck because it ran into the road.

      This epitomises what “be gentle”, “be kind”, ‘be considerate” is all about in Scotwokeland: you end up getting shafted in every orifice by totally unscrupulous b******s who know the score, while they pretend all the while that they have your best interests at heart. Many independence-minded Scots and many women have a great deal in common if they would but see it: they are both despised and loathed groups who relish their own martyrdom and bleat for more of the same.

      They are both like that horse – thinking of running free and heading for the field full of fresh grass, only to run straight into the path of a huge truck, emblazoned with a Union Jack in the shape of a frilly dress, on its bodywork, and that has had its brakes sawn through quite deliberately by the driver and his bosses so no one and nothing can detain it.

    5. MaggieC says:

      Rev Stu,

      Just to let you know that this is 4th post that I’ve not received an email notification from ‘Wings’ It’s just in case it happening to other people as well.

      I’ll tick the “Notify me of new posts” button again. (Angry emoji face)

    6. J Galt says:

      Truss just signed her own political death warrant with that dreadful performance at her press conference.

    7. Ian says:

      Somewhat disappointed you linked to Urban Dictionary regarding Jeremy Hunt’s name and missed the opportunity to include this:

      https://twitter.com/DannyDutch/status/1085996450247520257

    8. James Che says:

      Stu,

      Aint that the country that just launched a rocket on behalf of a Britain associated with a Uk rain based company in Cumberauld during a proxy battle of Britain.

      The SNP j u s t love the going to the meetings that kill civilians in other countries, while attracting to Scotland a big target sign on our backs
      As long as they are getting funding for that outlook,

    9. James Che says:

      They change puppets in Westminster faster than changing you’re socks.

      The thing is, that the people of England, Wales and NI did not vote this elite clowns in.

      They are self selecting themselves in regime change afterward after the citizens of Britain had already chosen,

      Now you know why Scotland wants independence and the SNP don’t.

      Scotland would not wait for a rigged vote again to throw this lot in Scotland behind bars,

      To do that, we have to realise the Scots are not in a treaty with England,

      That could take a long time as Scottish people have researched for the actual date they were asked to join.
      Meanwhile we will accept the Snp, Tories and labour and Greens to run Scotland…. Hey ho.

    10. Politically Homeless says:

      The Best Wee Virtue Signalin’ Pseudo-Country in the World[tm]

    11. James Che says:

      Political Homeless.

      It may be a wee Country, but the politics have gone global, against the populations choice.

    12. James Che says:

      The virtue signaling seems to be a world wide policy, along with cancel culture. Chaos and selected poverty, and biochemical weapons on civilians,

      One selfishly hopes they will be left standing after the idealogical clown leaders are behind bars for their crimes against humanity,
      that hearing would be larger and encompass far more than any nuremburg trials after the last world war.

      And its coming, they know it, thats why they are speeding up the downfall of their Countries.,
      Racing to the finish line before the people get there to hold them to account,

      Covid didnt cut it, it did not bring everything to its knees in all Countries as it should have done, their aiming for nuclear to end protests.

      You just wonder where their safe Countries and tunnels / bunkers are? Or will they take a quick flight out before it happens and follow the money they have been shipping out of britain and america and europe for the great reset.

      What is the probability percentages that all Countries have leaders whom cannot run their Countries, have food and energy and financial crises problems in a synchronised year.?

      This Wee country is not alone it seems.

    13. dandydons1903 says:

      The perfidious red tory trash with Sturmer are next in line for a shot of running the dying anglo brit government.

    14. solarflare says:

      I bet the SNP would love a GE at the moment. They’ll say “the Supreme Court hasn’t reported yet so it’s just a normal GE not a plebiscite on independence”. Then forget about independence for another few years.

      Or am I just a massive cynic.

    15. John Main says:

      Good article from Rev Stu (as per usual).

      FFS – menstrual leave – if people don’t want women to hold down jobs like men do, why not just say so and ban them from the workplace. Cos that is going to be the effect of this policy, if ever implemented.

      “their aiming for nuclear to end protests”

      Abysmal comments below the line (as per usual).

      Rev Stu deserves better.

    16. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 5.21 pm

      Abysmal comments below the line (as per usual).

      Rev Stu deserves better.

      Yes, he (and the movement generally) does, but that’s what happens when you hand the loonies the keys to the asylum.

      It’s too much to expect the usual suspects to have the self awareness to recognise that they are the ones fouling the nest of course, but the fact so many have simply stopped bothering to contribute tells us everything we need to know.

      The tsunami of effluent from the conspiracy theorists, nativists, covidiots, “Scotland as colony” and Sturgeon is the anti-Christ bores is bound to have an effect.

      Still, the polyphonic clusterfuck of Trussonomics and her public act of seppuku in this afternoon’s press conference should be worth a few percentage points to the independence movement!

    17. George Ferguson says:

      I don’t think Pete Wishart would accept the role of Chancellor. He has his eyes on the role of Speaker. They are on record as saying they love Westminster. More likely they love the rewards. Bearing in mind the long suffering Scottish Public are used to our own never ending debacles. A plague on both Governments. We need a General Election and a Scottish Parliament Election. The politicians have failed the people. We are at the bottom of the pile.

    18. James Che says:

      Malfunctioning Countries set up like ducks in a row. All leaders failing to run their Countries, all using the same policies.

      How can it be turned around into Cancel Culture rhetoric of ” No this is not happening world wide” interesting response.

      We all have good energy in britain, germany, france, canada, greece etc. No soaring energy price rises, NOT.

      We all have bouyent financial markets in these same governments and countries. NOT

      Who is actually telling us the prices have not risen in a syncrhonised manner and world wide.

      Opps it is happening to the same countries that talk constantly of nuclear power and new enemies in new countries every few years.

      Anyone see a Pattern developing yet.

    19. John Main says:

      @Andy Ellis says:14 October, 2022 at 5:48 pm

      “the polyphonic clusterfuck of Trussonomics and her public act of seppuku in this afternoon’s press conference should be worth a few percentage points to the independence movement”

      Maybes.

      Could be worth a few percentage points to Starmer’s merry crew instead, even in Scotland.

      Might be that the increase in support for Indy is cancelled out by some of the nonsense exposed in Rev Stu’s article.

      A plague on all their houses seems a rational response.

    20. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 6.24 pm

      You may be right. I can definitely see Labour and even the clueless LD’s picking up support in England and Wales. They may see an up-tick here, but it might be more about dyed in the wool Scots yoons who were gritting their teeth and voting Tory deciding to change back to Labour?

      I’d still wager the current omnishambles might convince a goodly number of soft No voter to switch sides. I still reckon the percentage for Yes will rise, even if the SNP share of the vote doesn’t!

      I’ll buy you a pint if I’m wrong. 🙂

    21. John Main says:

      Andy

      I think your beer money is safe enough.

      The big question, of course, is what the increase in Yes support will yield, given the evident inability of the Indy movement leaders within the SNP to make use of it.

      Hope Alba is working hard. Votes to be had as allegiances shift.

    22. Ruby says:

      This paid menstrual leave sounds great. If I were a man I would self-id as a woman just to get a week off every month.

      What about menopause leave?

    23. Dan says:

      Check out Andy at 5.48pm… the stickler for detail and so “concerned” about Wings btl discourse stating there are so few commenters left these days. Yet he still can’t be bothered to list specific posters in his posts by their name(s) and what point(s) they were making that he wants to contest or counter.
      Na, he’ll jist continue intentionally stoking the fires of division and discord whilst being part of the exact problem that he claims to be fighting against by blurting out his usual catch all derogatory and antagonistic shite aimed at some mysterious grouping of btl “posters”.
      If Andy had any real respect for Stu Campbell’s site and Stu teaching us to always looking for laser point accuracy in the details to get a better focused picture of what is going on, Andy would raise his game.

    24. shiregirl says:

      MaggieC says:
      14 October, 2022 at 3:12 pm
      Rev Stu,

      Just to let you know that this is 4th post that I’ve not received an email notification from ‘Wings’ It’s just in case it happening to other people as well.

      Me neither. Is it me? I’ve not mentioned man buns….

    25. George Ferguson says:

      @Andy Ellis 6:35pm
      I will buy you a pint if I am wrong. Sarwar says Labour is in the hunt for 13 to 14 Scottish MPs based on an extrapolation of the last Scottish Council elections. You may think that is a tad optimistic. But politics is fickle. The SNP had a landslide based on a failed activist Independence Referendum in no time at all. I was part of that but time is up on Sturgeon. I am predicting a Labour majority at the next General Election so are the bookies. How Scotland reacts is down to the voting public. I think progress by Labour in Scotland may get rid of Sturgeon. Do I want that? No, but if it gets rid of Sturgeon, Yes. We are where we are.

    26. Hatuey says:

      Surprising to see that there’s still an idiot or two left that thinks the antics of Tories in London will result in a rise in support for independence… if the needle didn’t move after Brexit, Boris, Covid, etc., etc., it’s not going to move now.

      As I said the other day, the chaos and blundering insanity of post-Brexit Britain is balanced out by Nicola’s unpopularity.

      Support for independence should be above 60% right now. It isn’t because of Nicola.

      Anyone who doesn’t grasp this is a political imbecile.

    27. John Main says:

      @ Dan says:14 October, 2022 at 7:19 pm

      “still can’t be bothered to list specific posters in his posts by their name(s) and what point(s) they were making that he wants to contest or counter.”

      To be fair, Dan, lots of posters doing that, so perhaps a smidge disingenuous to single out Andy.

      Hell, I even do it myself, sometimes. Comes from being an under-achiever, I guess!

      But to be serious for a mo, when faced with a not uncommon “parked breakfast” containing maybes half a dozen lies, deliberate misrepresentations and OTT exaggerations, all served up with a garnish of lunacy, the feeling that “life’s too short” takes over.

      You know I write the truth about this!

    28. John Main says:

      @Hatuey says:14 October, 2022 at 7:41 pm

      “Anyone who doesn’t grasp this is a political imbecile”

      There you go Dan, fill your boots.

    29. Republicofscotland says:

      “Support for independence should be above 60% right now. It isn’t because of Nicola.

      Anyone who doesn’t grasp this is a political imbecile.”

      Hatuey.

      I keep repeating it, but for some the penny never drops, (not you Hatuey) but it’s not Westminster stopping us dissolving this union, its Sturgeon. If we had a strong indy minded FM in Bute House we’d be independent by now, for Westminster doesn’t even come into the equation, they have nothing whatsoever to do with Scots deciding to leave the union.

    30. Ruby says:

      FAO Amy Callaghan

      That isn’t pink that is bloody magenta and WTF are you trying to reform the House of Commons?

      Amy Callaghan’s got a nice pair of cosy magenta slippers to keep her feet cosy.

    31. Ruby says:

      What puzzles me is if the ‘Two Cunts’ believe there are:

      Abysmal comments below the line (as per usual).

      Why are the ‘Two Cunts’ hangin’ around here?

    32. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan

      Yet he still can’t be bothered to list specific posters in his posts by their name(s) and what point(s) they were making that he wants to contest or counter.

      It’s pretty obvious to anyone who has been paying attention: take your pick from the basket of deplorables: Treaty of Union spammer James Che, cunt-calling harridan and know nothing Ruby, Vlad’s bestie Republic of Scotland, creepy as fuck stalker “Scott”, the deeply odd Hatuey, covidot Brotherhood.

      I’m not stoking the fires of division at all, however hard you try to sell that snake oil on an ongoing basis. My views are those of the overwhelming majority of Scots and those in the movement. No amount of inchoate screeching from the moonhowlers will change that fact.

      I don’t need to raise my game: I’m shooting fish in a pretty small barrel. Most of the fish are already rotting from the head down. The idea that some of those mentioned above represent accuracy on virtually any topic, still less laser point accuracy is to laugh.

      Happy now? Good.

    33. Dan says:

      John Main says: at 7:45 pm

      To be fair, Dan, lots of posters doing that, so perhaps a smidge disingenuous to single out Andy.

      You may thinks that John, but for an individual that thinks so much of themselves and calls folk out for not having the intellectual height to discuss stuff, you’d think he would consistently put just a wee bitty more effort into his own posts to raise the quality of btl discourse so they don’t read like low brow inaccurate repetitive shit.

      @ George Ferguson
      There’s a query about reasons for blood shortages on last thread comments if you could add anything garnered from yer laddie who iirc works in frontline health service.

    34. gregor says:

      The Waterboys:

      “…You saw the whole of the moon…”:

      https://tinyurl.com/rj672dss

    35. Ruby says:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/nothing-but-surrender/#comment-2707050

      “If so, the challenge is, as many people have said previously, to get onboard a lot more people”

      Indeed. You could explore a few ways of doing that on here, but prepare for insults, mockery and vilification if you do. Most posters seem to favour ideological purity, rather than pragmatism.

      I favour showing us the money.

      Yesterday I challenged John Main to show us how to convince soft No’s to vote for independence by showing them the money.

      He didn’t rise to the challenge!

      Perhaps he will today.

    36. Ruby says:

      My challenge today for ‘The Two Cunts’ who complain about

      Abysmal comments below the line (as per usual).

      Is to show us examples of post they don’t consider abysmal.

    37. George Ferguson says:

      @Dan 8:02pm
      There is no blood shortage in Scotland. He hasn’t talk about that. A shortage of gauze and bandages in A and E. I offered to nip to Boots. Joking aside people are reluctant to go to a clinical setting in general. We frightened the people during Covid. Don’t go to A and E Humza says. Wrong message my son says he wants to treat people that are unwell. Short medium and long term solutions are available for SNHS. But everybody has given up on the Scot Gov. To the extent he leaves early December. I watched a Green political broadcast tonight. He talked about trans siblings??. The new Scotland.

    38. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      14 October, 2022 at 8:01 pm

      @Dan

      Yet he still can’t be bothered to list specific posters in his posts by their name(s) and what point(s) they were making that he wants to contest or counter.

      It’s pretty obvious to anyone who has been paying attention: take your pick from the basket of deplorables: Treaty of Union spammer James Che, cunt-calling harridan and know nothing Ruby, Vlad’s bestie Republic of Scotland, creepy as fuck stalker “Scott”, the deeply odd Hatuey, covidot Brotherhood.

      I’m not stoking the fires of division at all, however hard you try to sell that snake oil on an ongoing basis. My views are those of the overwhelming majority of Scots and those in the movement. No amount of inchoate screeching from the moonhowlers will change that fact.

      I don’t need to raise my game: I’m shooting fish in a pretty small barrel. Most of the fish are already rotting from the head down. The idea that some of those mentioned above represent accuracy on virtually any topic, still less laser point accuracy is to laugh.

      Happy now? Good.

      Is this an example of non abysmal comment?

    39. Dan says:

      @ Andy Ellis at 8:01 pm

      Just asking that with supposedly so few commenters remaining btl, that you actually name the specific individual(s) and the point(s) you want to address rather than repeatedly corralling undefined folk into your derogatory grouping just because each individual person may hold differing views on certain subjects to your own.
      It’s not a hard thing to do and would remove or reduce the tendency for negativity to develop. Plus more focused and accurate discourse would align better with the principles of the site we are posting on.

      Stu asked for the playground shit to stop, and that isn’t just aimed at you, but a reminder to us all, so we should try harder to concentrate on playing the ball and not the person.

      @ George Ferguson

      Cheers for response. Sort of chimes with what I thought would be a factor with the way the whole Covid thang played out.

    40. shiregirl says:

      Stu asked for the playground shit to stop, and that isn’t just aimed at you, but a reminder to us all, so we should try harder to concentrate on playing the ball and not the person.

      Yes. I miss the old days. Remember when we ripped the pee out of Dunc, Ross (aff his tulips), Kez or the Moray twats.It’s all infighting now.
      Sort off sad.

    41. Republicofscotland says:

      “O wad some Pow’r the giftie gie us
      To see oursels as ithers see us!”

      Ellis would do well to ponder on the above, the point being how does he think we see him, knowing how he sees us.

    42. sarah says:

      @ Maggie C and shiregirl: I haven’t received notification of the last few articles either. Sinister?

    43. John Main says:

      @George Ferguson says:14 October, 2022 at 8:18 pm

      Before the Chinese gifted us Covid, people were still scared to go into hospital because of the widespread prevalence of hospital-acquired infections.

      MRSA and Clostridium Difficile, for example.

      In my family, we usually expected that somebody going in for, e.g. a knee op or hip replacement, would get a bonus, free infection.

      Ah, the good old days, when that was the worst of our worries.

    44. Stoker says:

      Addition to Rev’s article above this thread:

      Andrew Marr has stated he believes Truss will be gone within 2 weeks.
      __________

      Meanwhile: “Bad mistake from King Charles to appear to be mocking his first PM on camera, no matter how inept he may think her. Elizabeth II didn’t breach protocol like that in 70 years” a political commentator said.” https://archive.ph/e6Jan

      Utter bullshit! She stuck her nose into Scotland’s referendum. And i’m sure others could come up with times she breached protocol.
      __________

      And in other news:

      The House of Parasites grows even larger as Boris Johnson gives peerages to a string of cronies. But poor Paul Dacre is snubbed. LOL!

    45. George Ferguson says:

      @John Main 9:18pm
      Sure hospital acquired infections like MRSA were always a problem. But there is an additional layer of infection. Like my 90 year old Dad catching Delta Covid a definite hospital acquired infection. I go to his 91st birthday party next Saturday. But what we can’t solve is the SNP acquired infections of not presenting when unwell. And that is where the excess deaths are coming from. Late in presenting leads to death. I predicted 25000 to 40000 deaths several months ago. I hope I am wrong. If you are unwell go to A and E my son says and forget the advice of a minor politician.

    46. Stoker says:

      A wee interesting bedtime read, folks: https://archive.ph/ziYjl

    47. sarah says:

      On topic, nearly: I suggested a few days ago that it might educate our MSPs about it being we, the people, who are sovereign, if we asked them if they accept the Claim of Right. And when they agreed I would respond by informing them that they are there to do our bidding, and protect us from harm from England – they are not our bosses as that would mean parliament is sovereign.

      I emailed my 8 MSPs on the 8th and 9th October and have had 2 replies from assistants. Of course, Holyrood is in recess – again – which may account for the 75% non-response rate, and the assistants responding on behalf of MSPs Green Ariane Burgess and SNP Emma Roddick.

      The Green’s assistant said Yes, Ariane and the Greens DO support the Claim of Right and the sovereignty of the people. That was a good start.

      BUT SNP Emma Roddick’s assistant was far more circumspect. “Which Claim of Right” was I referring too, they asked. !!!!

      I quite see that the SNP would be cautious in committing themselves to accepting that the People are Sovereign – wouldn’t want the masses getting ideas beyond our station – but I have to say I was staggered. I replied today saying that I understood that all the Claims of Right from 1689 to the 2018 vote in Westminster confirmed the people’s sovereignty – “did they not?”, I asked.

      I await the response with interest.

    48. Jimmock says:

      Solarflare, Nicola has just called for a GE. Independence kicked into long grass again

    49. Geri says:

      A worrying trend. Tories seem to avoid parliament more & more these days. It’s like they’re too fkn gallus for such pi$h as facing parliamentary questions.

      Truss was elected on her right-wing pensioners roadshow =

      Telling Sturgeon to fk off *check*
      Telling NI protocol to fk off *check*
      Telling the French to feck off *check*
      Booking flights for foreigners *check*
      Keep the warmongers mongering? *check*
      Pressing the nuke button? *check*

      Did no one think to ask about running the country? LMAO!

      Truss is toast. The wee Paisley lass was all gob.

      As for BTL.

      People are entitled to thier opinions. I detest that shit *I know best & the majority of Independence supporting Scots agree with me* bullshit. Unless you’ve conducted a poll you can validate with proof then your opinion is just that. Opinion. Same as everyone else’s & no better. Enough trying to censor ppl. Yer begining to sound like that code of conduct pish emulating from the NuSNP.

      If you don’t like it then use the exit. It’s not too. 1408.

    50. Geri says:

      It’s not room 1408.

      Also missed off where Tories avoid parliament & go into hiding when the shit hits the fan. Before Truss, BoJo was either on holiday or self isolating for the umpteenth time. She dropped her mini grenade & fecked off for a week.

      Mayhem, BoJo, Truss & the revolving door of chancellors & the SNP still can’t think up a strategy to make her move.

      At this rate federalism & abolishing the Lord’s will be sooner.

      The more I hear of Corbyn blowing the whistle on *the establishment* the more I’m convinced were here arguing over something that’s never going to happen. Far too many with a vested interest in the UK & to play along with the big guns – they need North Sea.

      youtu.be/i5Uhqyfk1pY

    51. gregor says:

      ScotGov (2020): First Minister opens discussion on “new normal”:

      Nicola Sturgeon:

      “…I am seeking to start a grown up conversation with the public…

      …we are in uncharted territory so we also need to make careful judgements and be prepared to adapt and change course as we go.

      …restrictions… we cannot rule out having to reapply them…

      …measures we are taking… This is causing harm to the economy and living standards, to children’s education and to mental health and wellbeing…

      …a return to normal as we knew it is not on the cards in the near future…”:

      https://www.gov.scot/news/looking-beyond-lockdown/

    52. James U says:

      Wishart? So from _unt to another _unt!

    53. Rab Davis says:

      Sturgeon ALWAYS has an excuse ready to keep the doubters quite.

      Something always gets in the way.

      First It was her sustained 60% support for Yes for a year.

      Then Brexit.

      Then Covid.

      Then the economy.

      Then the Supreme Court.

      Then no Section 30 from Westminster.

      Then it’ll be that the UK government won’t recognise UK plebiscite election.

      Then we’ll be back round to the Holyrood elections,,,, where Sturgeon will once again ask us to give her ANOTHER mandate to hold IndyRef2.

      And she’ll want to march us all up to the top of that hill again.

      And when we were up,,,,we were well and truly fucked by the fraudster Sturgeon,,, AGAIN!!!

    54. Willie says:

      What we need now is a bring back Boris campaign.

      I mean we’re missing his erudite, wise, and s srupulously honest leadership. He was the circus master.

      Bring back Boris, you know it makes sense.

    55. James says:

      wow the posting quality has nosedived since I last checked in.
      Scotland still not wised up to the SNP grifters I see.
      Stu your a remarkable man, with undoubtedly a huge writing talent.
      The country is finished, its over.
      It’s every man for himself, get out while you can.

    56. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      14 October, 2022 at 8:40 pm

      @ Andy Ellis at 8:01 pm

      Just asking that with supposedly so few commenters remaining btl, that you actually name the specific individual(s) and the point(s) you want to address rather than repeatedly corralling undefined folk into your derogatory grouping just because each individual person may hold differing views on certain subjects to your own.

      He’s done what you asked Dan. Everyone with the exception of the “Basket of deplorables” who have been named can rest easy. You have his approval!

      It’s pretty obvious to anyone who has been paying attention: take your pick from the basket of deplorables: Treaty of Union spammer James Che, cunt-calling harridan and know nothing Ruby, Vlad’s bestie Republic of Scotland, creepy as fuck stalker “Scott”, the deeply odd Hatuey, covidot Brotherhood.

      What would you suggest these posters who have been named do?
      Should we all go away and stop posting on Wings in order to keep Ellis happy?

    57. John Main says:

      @Willie says:15 October, 2022 at 5:28 am

      “What we need now is a bring back Boris campaign.

      I mean we’re missing his erudite, wise, and s srupulously honest leadership. He was the circus master.

      Bring back Boris, you know it makes sense.”

      Close, but no cigar, Willie.

      On the website where BTL, conspiracy theories are the norm, you missed an obvious one.

      Do you wonder why, from an admittedly not very good list of possibilities, the Tories picked the very worst pair? Have you realised than within 40 days of taking over, everybody expects Truss to be gone imminently? Consider the feasibility of this having been an expected, maybes even a planned set of events all along. Maybes they looked north, saw what happens when a bunch of ignorant, ideologically-blinkered, incompetents are left in charge of a country, and thought “hmmm, we could use some of that”.

      Boys & Girls, let me introduce you to BoJo II. New, improved, lessons from the past all learned. Time to put it all behind us and move on!

      Now tell me there is anybody else in the bottom of the Tory barrel that might just be able to stop the new Age of Starmer that is now “priced in”, as the MSM pundits like to put it.

      And check out the Bookies.

      https://reaction.life/how-long-does-truss-have-left/

    58. John Main says:

      If you are enjoying a peaceful weekend breakfast, and are a fully paid up member of the group that believe iScotland’s true, forever destiny is to be ruled by foreigners from Brussels, you won’t want to read this:

      https://unherd.com/thepost/europes-top-diplomat-is-blackpilled-about-the-future/

    59. Ruby says:

      John Main isn’t doing a very good job of convincing people that an iScotland would be better off outside the EU nor is he doing a very good job of convincing people to vote for independence.
      He claims we need to show the NO voters the money but as yet he has failed to do so himself.

      Here’s the thing about the EU. In the event of the EU not working out for iScotland all we have to do is to vote to leave.

      Take a look at Brexit Britain and ask yourself if being outside the EU was such a good idea.

    60. stuart mctavish says:

      @Ruby

      I’m clearly not doing enough to get on the naughty list so I’ll chip in with something none of you slackers appears to have noticed and remind Rev Stu that its not a country its a union of kingdoms and parliaments..

      One of which, pursuant to UKG demand that Bills are passed before the (ahem) agreed supranational court takes a peek at them, now has the opportunity (some might say duty) to push through as many bills encroaching on reserved matters as possible with a view to causing maximum embarrassment to the other (eg condemnation of breaches in statute of limitiations under international law for the Alex Jones defamation*, sanctions on North America until Trudeau in prison and protestors from Jan 6 released, $1B fine on pfizer (for starters) to be made available to sandy hook survivors in compensation for the trauma the shameful multi jeopardy show trial(s) had them re-live for political expedience, etc. )

      Initially this would help drive the point home to scottish secretary about just how reasonable, fair and right scots law is capable of being when applied judiciously but over time, and particularly after winning the odd sc referral on more useful legislation related to currency, defence, energy, etc AND MSPS OF INDEPENDENT MIND BEING RE-ELECTED REGARDLESS, it will soon become obvious who has the true authority, competence and approval to administer reserved areas

      *cf had Kezia been left unaware of her defamatory behaviour until 10 years after it was first observed, she might still be scottish leader of new labour and utterly clueless about the billions in damage its hypocritical discombobulation was causing until 2027 at earliest..

    61. Dan says:

      It’s pishing with rain ootside so make another cuppa and have a swatch at the update.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/10/15/cameron-downing-update/

    62. Ruby says:

      I have been accused of being a ‘know nothing’ I am quite happy with that label.

      What I would like to ask those who claim to ‘know everything’ is where they get their information from?

      If I read the MSM and watched the BBC could I then claim to be a ‘know everything’?

      Not that I would want to I would prefer to be a ‘know nothing’ and be able to see that ‘the king is starkers’

    63. Andy Ellis says:

      @Dan 8.40 pm

      Just asking that with supposedly so few commenters remaining btl, that you actually name the specific individual(s) and the point(s) you want to address rather than repeatedly corralling undefined folk into your derogatory grouping just because each individual person may hold differing views on certain subjects to your own.

      It sounds an awful lot like folk who engage are damned if they do and damned if they don’t in terms of providing detailed responses. You criticise me and others for writing people off or generalising too much or being derogatory, but others go off the deep end and want to tone police the volume, length and content of comments. So which is it to be, and who decides? Other than Rev Stu having a paddy about “playground shit” and then signally failing to back it up with any action, where does it leave us?

      I’m quite happy with folk having and posting their alternative views. I’m not the one calling for their points of view to be excluded, but in the end we’ve seen where that leads: the moon-howlers can’t take people pointing at their woo woo and being laughed at, so it quickly descends in to a bin fire, as they insist that anyone who disagrees with them is a plant, not a “real” independence supporter, “English”, Sturgeonista, yoon [insert insult of choice here].

      Meanwhile pearl clutchers like you sit on the sidelines having a fit of the vapours and tacitly or overtly egg these low lives on by insisting everyone is as bad as each other, and issuing bromides like we should all just have a group hug and “keep our eyes on the prize” because we all want the same thing really.

      I HAVE tried, as you and others well know, to reason with pieces of work like Republic of Scotland on his shilling for Vlad, but there comes a point where the game simply isn’t worth the candle. Such people just aren’t open to reason: it’s like arguing with a person of faith.

      It’s not a hard thing to do and would remove or reduce the tendency for negativity to develop. Plus more focused and accurate discourse would align better with the principles of the site we are posting on.

      Who appointed you site moderator all of a sudden? Ruby tried that in the past and it didn’t go down well, neither did it work. If Rev Stu calls time, then fair enough. The reason it’s more visible now is that there are many fewer articles from Stu, and a lot fewer comments, so the input of the small coterie of moonhowlers low lives is relatively greater and more obvious.

      The focus, quality and alignment of the BTL comments would improve markedly if Stu stopped monomaniacs like James Che spamming the site with their repetitive brain farts, or actually followed through on threats to get rid of a sweary harridan like Ruby for example. When he threatened to ban both Ruby and me if we mentioned each other again, I scrupulously adhered to his request. She on the other hand simply ignored it after a week or two and more or less dared him to ban her….which he never has.

      Stu asked for the playground shit to stop, and that isn’t just aimed at you, but a reminder to us all, so we should try harder to concentrate on playing the ball and not the person.

      The site has always had a healthy amount of invective. It obviously triggers some folk that I call them nativists (because the promote and believe in a nativist franchise c.f: fair comment), moon howlers (because they promote and believe in a-scientific woo woo like vaccine denial, or other patently absurd conspiracy theorising like “Vlad has a point and the people of country 404 had it come coming and need to be de-nazified and demilitarised”), but I don’t insist they are “tractors” or just constantly call them cunts.

      As yourself Dan, which poster on here would disappear if Stu banned all those routinely calling other folk in the movement “tractors” or cunt called them, or spammed the site with ill-informed repetition about the Treaty of Union, and try and tell me with a straight face this place wouldn’t be better off without their input.

    64. Nally Anders says:

      Ruby@7.20pm (14th)
      Spot on. Men should ID as women to get the extra paid leave and the opportunity is sooner than you think.
      First vote on Self ID is less than a fortnight away.
      FWS have made it easy andembedded template letters in the embedded link.
      Please spend just 5mins to send to all your MSP’s.
      https://www.facebook.com/311654993038848/posts/pfbid02mpER2s99u9mauHKKTDcaKfbpev7bznkXCuxUWamcX877oniFor7yHFLavutwrXp1l/

    65. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      15 October, 2022 at 9:15 am

      It’s pishing with rain ootside so make another cuppa and have a swatch at the update.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/10/15/cameron-downing-update/

      At the time you posted the above the sun was shining in Edinburgh. The sun came out as soon as I came inside after being soaked by torrential rain.

      Re Cameron Downing I agree with the following except that I was unaware of any SNP civil war regarding the GRA.

      So, this suggests that what’s going on here is nothing to do with Scottish independence and nothing, directly, to do with Cameron Downing. What’s going on here is that the London Branch, or at least its convenor and committee, is choosing a side in the current SNP civil war and that they have chosen to back the leadership and the gender ideologues who currently have control of the party. Cameron Downing, endorsed by Karen Adam, is just part of the package.

      What Nicola Sturgeon says about ‘women’ is a hundred times worse than what this idiot said.

    66. Ruby says:

      But whatever you think of Pride, and despite the smug and self-satisfied reference to people cheering for Scottish independence, no-one would seriously suggest that marching in London Pride was going to have any impact on Scotland’s independence campaign.

      It might have a detrimental effect on ‘Scotland’s independence campaign’ which I suspect the GRA reform and Nicola Sturgeon’s attitude to women will have.

      In the event of Cameron Downing being replaced with someone astute enough not to claim ‘he hates terfs’ on Twitter doesn’t mean he doesn’t hate terfs.

    67. Dan says:

      @ sarah on 14 October, at 10:13 pm

      Re. Sovereignty of the people.

      The FM stated the following back at the start of latest Holyrood Parliament.

      The Scottish National Party pledges loyalty to the people of Scotland, in line with the Scottish constitutional tradition of the sovereignty of the people.

      The member then made a solemn affirmation.

      https://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2021-05-13.0.3

      And Emma Roddick did make her affirmation under protest.

      I make this affirmation under protest in order to sit in the Parliament, where my allegiance will be to the people.

      The member then made a solemn affirmation and repeated it in Gaelic.

      https://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2021-05-13.0.111

      Whilst looking for clips of the oaths and affirmation speeches I found this 2 min vid which sort of puts Ms Roddick at odds with the behaviour of Cameron Downing in the Yours for Scotland article linked to in my previous post.

      https://m.facebook.com/EmmaRoddickSNP/videos/-watch-emma-roddick-msp-on-violence-against-women-and-girls/960436344547353/

      Rains aff noo so back to house renovations…

    68. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      15 October, 2022 at 9:36 am

      @Dan 8.40 pm

      “…”

      —-

      Fuzzy Wuzzy was a woman?

    69. Hatuey says:

      I’m happy with my label too, Ruby, “deeply odd”, although I was wondering if we could change it to “deeply dippy”.

      Ellis is in a bit of a pickle though. The Indy movement and Alba are collectively realising that there’s no route to independence through the ballot box and are starting to warm to ideas that Ellis slated as the “cunning plans” of “moon-howlers”.

      Nietzsche said a person’s character could be measured by how much truth he could tolerate.

    70. John Main says:

      @Ruby says:15 October, 2022 at 9:04 am

      “Here’s the thing about the EU. In the event of the EU not working out for iScotland all we have to do is to vote to leave”

      That leaves me assuming that you are so blinkered with the “Scotland In Europe” trope you must have learned at your mother’s knee, that you advocate an iScotland joining the EU as a matter of faith alone.

      Cos here’s the thing. Why wouldn’t we know in advance, when negotiating the Terms & Agreements under which iScotland would join, whether it would work out or not?

      It’s not the case that the EU is an unknown quantity. Any half-assed competent politicos/civil servants will know with a high degree of accuracy what the pros and cons will be, can publicise them to the voters, and let the voters make an informed choice at a referendum. And if it can be seen that it won’t work out, then why would we be so daft as to join?

      Meantime, in real life, I don’t know of anybody who gets married on the reasoning that if it doesn’t work out, all she has to do is leave.

      “Take a look at Brexit Britain and ask yourself if being outside the EU was such a good idea”

      Sure, Brexit Britain is in a bind, as is Brexit EU. Some commentators point out that Brexit EU is in the biggest bind, what with the engine of the EU, the German economy, being in free fall. Meantime, the EU has lost its third-largest contributor (2020 figures), the UK:

      https://www.statista.com/statistics/316691/eu-budget-contributions-by-country/

      Funny how the believers that Scotland subs the UK, never joined the dots to realise that if the UK subbed the EU, then Scotland subbed the EU. That being the case, so will an iScotland sub the EU if we are so convinced of the “too wee” jibe that we dash for the safety of the rule of Brussels.

      Fundamentally though, after 300+ years of subjugation, indirect rule, resource and asset stripping from abroad, the idea that a finally independent, free and sovereign Scotland should immediately get itself hooked up in a new union is so risible I am astonished that anybody can entertainment it with a straight face.

      One thing’s for certain. Those Scots that remain to be convinced of the merits of Yes, will just shake their heads in disbelief at the so-called Indy supporters who self-evidently lack faith in an iScotland’s viability.

      You are constantly telling people that Scotland is too wee and too poor to go it alone. Don’t be surprised when people decide to stick with the status quo.

    71. Republicofscotland says:

      Sarah @10.13pm.

      Well done Sarah for being proactive on this, I’d imagine all MSPs and Scottish MPs know fine well about the Claim of Right and that the people of Scotland are sovereign. I’d also imagine that the Scottish unionist MSPs/MPs don’t want to talk about it, and the SNP and Greens only want to talk about it when it suits their needs, ie, in a run up to an election to get the indy masses onside, then its put firmly back into its box until the next election comes around.

      It could be that Roddick’s assistant genuinely isn’t aware of the Claim of Right, I suspect that many aren’t that bright at Holyrood, and don’t actually read up on their own country’s history, they are in it for the money, and if possible, the promotion.

    72. Ruby says:

      Nally Anders says:
      15 October, 2022 at 9:38 am

      First vote on Self ID is less than a fortnight away.

      I’m not clear on what difference the vote in favour of self-id will make.
      As it stands people are able to identify as a woman simply by putting on women’s clothes. Nobody is asking for ID at the entrance to ‘women’ only spaces nor would anyone dare.
      Sturgeon & her followers have already declared ‘trans women are women’

      I know there is an issue with the UK passport office with regards to a Scottish GRC. What about birth certificates is that a devolved matter?

    73. Republicofscotland says:

      The Scottish Green party conference takes place over this weekend in Dundee.

    74. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      15 October, 2022 at 10:32 am

      That leaves me assuming that you are so blinkered with the “Scotland In Europe” trope you must have learned at your mother’s knee, that you advocate an iScotland joining the EU as a matter of faith alone.

      You can assume anything the fuck you like but you still aren’t doing anything to convince voters of the merits of iScotland being outside the EU.

      What is your criteria for Scotland asking for a 2nd IndyRef?
      Do you actually want Scotland to have a 2nd IndyRef?

    75. Chas says:

      After every accurate, forensic article penned by Rev Stu the initial comments are generally from posters on the subject matter.

      However it does not take too long before the conspiracy theorists, the paranoid, the neurotic and the ‘historical’ fanatics pile in with their endless drivel, often umpteen times per day. Andy Ellis is quite correct calling them out for what they are. A waste of time and space. I cannot remember which one, out of the names he mentioned, was gleefully posting, some months ago, about the US General who was captured, along with his troops, by the nice men from the country that cannot be mentioned. Facts and accuracy mean absolutely nothing to them as they continue to pollute this site with their warped theories. Nobody will pay any attention to them in the ‘real’ world and sites like Wings are the only outlet for their fantasies.

      Has anyone noticed the turmoil in the ‘financial markets’ recently? It appears that this thing called MONEY is quite important after all. Not that this will concern the members of the Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade aka The Brigadoon Fantasists Historical Society. Give it time and it will.
      Not too long to wait until the SG produce their long awaited economic/strategy for an Independent Scotland. I have no idea what this report will contain but I guarantee it will raise more questions than it will answer. Assuming that there may be something in the report, to the advantage of ordinary Scots, this should be produced next week. After all the SG have had 8 years to prepare it.

      Scotland is in limbo, which suits the SNP/Loons politicians!! in Holyrood and Westminster just fine. After all their bank balances and pension pots increase with every passing month. Damn-there is that MONEY thing again!

      With the Tory Government at Westminster in meltdown what will our brave, courageous SNP do? Answers on a postcard to Bute House.

    76. Ruby says:

      Chas says:
      15 October, 2022 at 10:58 am

      Has anyone noticed the turmoil in the ‘financial markets’ recently? It appears that this thing called MONEY is quite important after all

      Let’s hear what you have to say regarding MONEY. How would you convince a soft NO to vote for Independence?

    77. Republicofscotland says:

      It’s interesting to note that Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots called for the resignation of the woeful Liz Truss, for her failings as PM.

      The same can be said of Sturgeon the betrayer who has failed the people of Scotland on delivering independence, she has been given umpteen mandates, and returned to office on several occasions on the promise of fulfilling her pledge to deliver at the very least an indyref, but she has failed miserably to do so, and she and her party MUST pay the price beginning at the next GE where WE must vote for the Alba party and give them a chance to deliver what Sturgeon the betrayer could not or will not.

      This should be followed up by voting for the Alba party at Holyrood and council elections, the SNP and Sturgeon have had their chance to deliver independence they have wasted eight years, and actually damaged the indy cause, abysmal failure like this shouldn’t be rewarded by any more time in office.

      Alex Salmond has brought us closer to exiting this God awful onesided union than anyone else in its 300+ years of existence, when he took us to an indyref in 2014. Salmond is now with the Alba party, and unlike Sturgeon the betrayer (As Nicolson said) Salmond DOES frighten the horses at Westminster, for they know fine well that he WILL lead Scotland to independence this time around, but that route can only happen if WE give him and his party our votes beginning at the next GE.

      The NuSNP is a unionist party in all but name now, the last eight years have shown us that, no movement forward on independence whatsoever, it’s time to give a real indy party a chance, it’s time for Alba.

    78. Ruby says:

      Chas says:
      15 October, 2022 at 10:58 am

      Andy Ellis is quite correct calling them out for what they are

      Would you agree then that others have the right to call out Andy Ellis for what they think he is?

    79. Effijy says:

      Can we have equality with paid leave for SNP are breaking my balls.

      I’m desperate for independence.
      I joined the party, knocked doors, dropped leaflets and spent quite a sum that I can’t bare to add up on various like minded organisations but I’ve stopped everything as all I can see is our main party dreaming up the most bizarre vote loosing proposals ever seen.

      The Monty Python team would throw out these ideas as too surreal.

      It’s going to be a pathetic Labour Government next.
      The London centric party who doesn’t believe in democracy for Scotland and who will
      Make all the cuts to pay off the debt owner to Tory Party sponsors who have pocketed £10’s Billions.

      I had resolved to live long enough to see my country independent but unless anyone advise on where the fountain of youth is I’ll be buried with the Saltire draping my coffin and the council’s Union Jack flying 2 fingers at me.

    80. Chas says:

      For the avoidance of doubt I will not respond to the ‘neurotic’ amongst us who add nothing to any debate.

    81. Stoker says:

      UK corporation tax set to rise to 25% -Daily Telegraph:

      “The rise to the tax scraps Kwarteng’s plan to freeze it at 19%, announced in his Sept. 23 “mini-budget”, which has now cost him his job.”

      https://archive.ph/ozIlw

      It wasn’t just Kwarteng’s plan, Truss, like all PM’s, worked on them alongside him. The Chancellor’s plans don’t get the green light without the PM’s backing. Kwarteng was thrown under the bus, Tory style.

      A bunch of incompetent clowns in charge of the purse strings. We’re just not up shit-creek without a paddle, we’re being drawn into that whirlpool at the top of shit-creek.

    82. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey 10.26 am

      Ellis is in a bit of a pickle though. The Indy movement and Alba are collectively realising that there’s no route to independence through the ballot box and are starting to warm to ideas that Ellis slated as the “cunning plans” of “moon-howlers”.

      You saying something and it bearing any relation to the truth are two very different things though, as your general output so often demonstrates. If the indy movement which you now purport to speak on behalf of (and as an aside, I’m often criticised for daring to speak on behalf of the silent majority, but at least there’s some evidence in my case that it’s true!) is collectively being converted to the use of “cunning plans for indy” rather than use of the ballot box, where’s the evidence?

      Is there polling about it? Doubtless you’ll be able to point us in the direction of this evidence. Perhaps there’s a sudden uptick in support for parties proposing such cunning routes? In reality of course, the prospectus of SSRG and Salvo, while interesting, has made marginal impact outside the relatively small political bubble to those already invested in the movement, those opposed to the SNP and horrified at the lack of progress.

      Perhaps not all of those convinced by “cunning plans for indy” are moonhowlers, but its self evident that virtually all the usual moonhowling pack members in here are tub thumping supporters of non-ballot box routes to indy.

      Nietzsche said a person’s character could be measured by how much truth he could tolerate.

      “The truth, you can’t handle the truth”. 🙂

      But seriously, the idea that your views, or those of others in the claque of performing seals in here represent “truth” and mine don’t, whilst interesting, will be treated with the derision it so richly deserves by anyone with a functioning frontal cortex.

      As Chas notes above, on virtually any given issue you’d wish to discuss they represent the fringes of the movement. The intellectual and political barrel scrapings, which is as apt an analogy as we could wish for given that as we’ve all seen, empty barrels are famous for making the most noise.

    83. Nally Anders says:

      Ruby @ 10.43
      Basically you seem to be asking why bother?
      I guess you either care about preserving women’s ‘legal’ single sex spaces or not.
      You are correct that there is nothing to stop folk identifying as one thing or other or of the 57 varieties of gender. Frankly don’t care how anyone looks or dresses but biological males claiming to be women are another matter.
      The reason we have confusion as to who is entitled to use women’s facilities is because Stonewall have deliberately misinterpreted the Equality Act.
      Fact is under the Act it is legitimate to exclude transwomen because it refers to sex as biological and provides for any service to be single sex to preserve privacy, safety and dignity. Mentions specifically toilets and changing rooms and even extents to separate changing facilities in dept.stores.
      Organisations are still permitted to advertise jobs as ‘women only’ but are choosing to ignore the Equality Act, which is why the CEO of Rape Crisis Scotland is a biological and ‘legal’ male.

      A GRC allows folk to change ‘legal’ sex (ie. Change both certificate and name change) for most purposes but the gatekeeping is a medical diagnosis.
      Self ID provides no gatekeeping whatsoever and therefore is open to 100% of the population, remembering that even with a GRC there is not need to change appearance, dress differently, take hormones or have surgery.
      Think Jamie Wallis MP.
      So why bother?
      Gordon Dangerfield’s blog outlines why we must ‘hold the line’. We either have single sex spaces under the law or we haven’t.
      I for one want my young girls to have spaces free from harassment that I grew up with.

      https://gordondangerfield.com/2022/08/12/why-single-sex-female-services-are-not-for-biological-males/

    84. James Che says:

      The philosophy of the Colonialist is that the nativist idea and belief of inherited right is wrong.

    85. Ruby says:

      Nally Anders says:
      15 October, 2022 at 12:48 pm

      Ruby @ 10.43
      Basically you seem to be asking why bother?
      I guess you either care about preserving women’s ‘legal’ single sex spaces or not.

      Is there something wrong with asking questions?
      That’s a weird guess Nally! What are you guessing that I do or I don’t?

      Self-id or no self-id you will still have ‘men’ in ‘womens spaces’
      it’ll just mean they will have to ‘live as a woman’ for a bit longer to get their GRC.

      While they are ‘living as a woman’ obviously they would be using ‘women’s spaces’
      Prisoners who were looking to gain a GRC would require to ‘live as a woman’ in a woman’s prison.

      Transitioning seems to be very trendy now and it seems the medical profession are very keen on transitioning as a means of solving all sorts of mental health issues and I guess it’s in the interest of the pharmaceutical industry to have people on heavy duty drugs for the rest of their lives.
      So I guess even without self-id it would be pretty straight forward to get a GRC.

      I believe the big mistake is to claim ‘trans women are women’ also to claim being trans isn’t a mental health issue.

    86. Geri says:

      John Main re Europe.

      That was the original SNP stance. Not voting to join the EU as full members on the basis of trying to leave one Union without rushing headfirst to become embroiled in another.
      Another thing Sturgeon changed for herself along the way.

      It muddies the waters & pitching our independence wagon to the say so of 27 other countries when we may not even vote to join! Why fight 28 fights when only 1 is all that matters for now? Its recipe for disaster from the get-go when there’s absolutely no need for it. I can’t predict the outcome of a future EU ref any more than Sturgeon can.

      Better together 2 would have a field day trying any campaign up with what Greece says & here’s what France thinks & don’t forget what Spain thinks too! It’d be a neverendum of fking opinions that fk all to do with *Should Scotland be an independent country? Yes or No?

      (& In My cousin Vinny style) That question is for SCOTLAND. AND ONLY SCOTLAND.
      LOL

    87. Ruby says:

      Chas says:
      15 October, 2022 at 11:23 am

      For the avoidance of doubt I will not respond to the ‘neurotic’ amongst us who add nothing to any debate.

      I’ve heard it all now! They were very simple questions Chas.

      Chas says:
      15 October, 2022 at 10:58 am

      Has anyone noticed the turmoil in the ‘financial markets’ recently? It appears that this thing called MONEY is quite important after all

      Let’s hear what you have to say regarding MONEY. How would you convince a soft NO to vote for Independence?

      Chas says:
      15 October, 2022 at 10:58 am

      Andy Ellis is quite correct calling them out for what they are

      Would you agree then that others have the right to call out Andy Ellis for what they think he is?

      I did also ask James Main how he would convince NO voters to vote for independence when he too believes money is the main issue.

      I didn’t get an answer from him either nor did I get an answer to the question I asked here:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-totally-normal-country/comment-page-1/#comment-2707196

    88. Ruby says:

      John Main re Europe.

      That was the original SNP stance. Not voting to join the EU as full members on the basis of trying to leave one Union without rushing headfirst to become embroiled in another.
      Another thing Sturgeon changed for herself along the way.

      It muddies the waters & pitching our independence wagon to the say so of 27 other countries when we may not even vote to join! Why fight 28 fights when only 1 is all that matters for now? Its recipe for disaster from the get-go when there’s absolutely no need for it. I can’t predict the outcome of a future EU ref any more than Sturgeon can.

      Better together 2 would have a field day trying any campaign up with what Greece says & here’s what France thinks & don’t forget what Spain thinks too! It’d be a neverendum of fking opinions that fk all to do with *Should Scotland be an independent country? Yes or No?

      (& In My cousin Vinny style) That question is for SCOTLAND. AND ONLY SCOTLAND.
      LOL

      Is the important thing not to convince voters to vote for independence?

      Surely EU membership would be a great enticement for the 75% who are pro EU.

      I don’t understand your first paragraph? Was Alex Salmond not pro EU.
      Not a lot of the 2nd either.

      Is the whole reason for having a 2nd IndyRef not all because of EU membership?

      Do you think the outcome of any future EU Ref would be a lot different to the Scottish result in 2016 and recent polls on the issue?

      If polls are currently saying 75% of the Scottish electorate are pro EU would it not be a huge oversight not to include EU membership in any independence campaign?

    89. Andy Ellis says:

      @Geri 2.20 pm

      Not voting to join the EU as full members on the basis of trying to leave one Union without rushing headfirst to become embroiled in another.

      Recent polls show that Scots voters are more in favour of EU membership now than they were when they voted in the brexit referendum. Hitching the independence wagon to a stance of staying outside the EU isn’t likely to be a vote winner. The fact remains an independent Scotland will have to re-apply, and while as alert readers know there is no queue and Scottish membership shouldn’t be problematic from the EU POV, it isn’t going to happen overnight.

      EFTA membership and access to the single market in the short term is probably sensible. As recent figures have shown, our current dire economic situation has been considerably worsened by the hit our trade took after brexit, which was well signalled before we left by all those who knew what they were talking about. Frothing brexiteers of course insisted that “Global Britain” would be fine after brexit, that the negotiations would be a cake walk, and that the sclerotic UK economy would magically be transformed in to the European Singapore.

      How’s that working out?

      Better together 2 would have a field day trying any campaign up with what Greece says & here’s what France thinks & don’t forget what Spain thinks too!

      “Better Together v0.2” will already be holed below the waterline before the campaign for indyref2 or possible plebiscitary elections starts by the fact that all plausible unionist government now = brexit government, and the fact that the arguments they made during indyref1 have blown up in their faces. If a convincing pro-indy majority can’t be forged on the back of the last few chaotic years and the record of the UK for shooting itself in both feet, then the Scots people – at least the current voting generation – are beyond help.

    90. Andy Ellis says:

      Interesting analysis on the SC case from Sionaidh Douglas-Scott who holds the Anniversary Chair in Law at Queen Mary University of London, in the German Verfassungsblog. She seems to think the SG will lose, but that if it does it should emphasise the self determination aspects of the arguments set out in the SNP’s submission to the Court. She concludes:

      If the Scottish people have an entitlement to self-determination, and the only way to actualize that is through a referendum, or at least negotiations with the UK Government, then it follows that such negotiation may not be unreasonably withheld. As the SNP brief in this case argued, if there is no way to exercise a right, then it is no right at all: ubi jus ibi remedium. However, if the UK government continues to reject any negotiation with Scotland, or to countenance any further independence referendum, then, as Ciaran Martin has written, ‘you have to give up the pretence that this is a voluntary union, that Scotland is allowed to leave’. This reduces Scotland to the status of a colony, or a region with no history of independent statehood, which flies in the face of history, and also undermines any claims for the exceptional, voluntary, ‘family’, nature of the UK Union.

      So if the Supreme Court case is lost, the focus should be on arguments beyond the Scotland Act 1998, and on the principles of self-determination and democracy. Debate should also be focussed on the unreasonable – and perhaps unlawful – behaviour of the UK Government. I believe there are arguments (which there is no space to sketch out here) based on change of circumstance and good faith that can and should be made in this context. These arguments should be made again and again – to the Scottish people, to the UK Government, and to the international community.

      https://verfassungsblog.de/a-second-scottish-independence-referendum-in-the-uk-supreme-court/

      The Ciaran Martin quote she references is from his article here:

      https://consoc.org.uk/the-uk-government-and-a-second-scottish-independence-referendum-an-unsustainable-paradox/

    91. wull says:

      Thank you for that post, Andy Ellis, at 3.55 pm. I don’t always find myself in agreement with you when I read what you say, and I have to admit I often skim past (you are entitled to do the same with me, and no doubt do so – which is fair play, absolutely), but that quote is very interesting indeed. I hope others take note. Thank you again.

      Someone above (Gregor maybe?) noted that Wee Nic said the following: ‘…a return to normal as we knew it is not on the cards in the near future…” This makes me wonder what wee Nic means by ‘a return to normal as we know it’. It also makes me wonder who is meant by ‘we’ in that quote. Is it the ‘royal WE’ (‘we Nic’)?

      So, question to wee / we Nic, albeit with a change of pronoun (if that is not yet against the law of the land (in Nic’s NewLand): How can you (or anyone) ‘return to normal’ if you have never been ‘normal’ in the first place? Surely you can only return to somewhere you have been before.

      The new-norms in NewScotland seem almost entirely abnormal to me. I suspect to many, even most others as well.

      The ‘normal as we knew it’seems like some hazy memory left over from a distant past.

      Even if in fact it was only a few short years ago.

      Sorry about that.

      But it’ll happen to you too, hen.

      Hence, SAY ‘BYE BYE’ TO THE NORMAL

      The ‘normal as we knew it won’t be back’ –
      The global forums, as we know ’em, had it hacked!
      ‘They can’t have that!’ they said, ‘It’s really gor-ra go!
      For what’s most normal is the deadly foe
      Of what they’re gonna get,
      From our big-worrld re-set,
      Which you, We(e) Nic – for them – accept.

      ‘For, in our giant Spider-web,
      They’re all, wee flies, as good as dead.
      And so are you, Twee Nic: To us you’re wed,
      For us, you led, … and hold them fast,
      You tied and lashed them to your mast…
      Which is ours, in fact. Where truth and freedom die,
      As does the normal, … passing by.’

    92. wull says:

      ALTERNATIVE LAST LINE TO ABOVE WEE DITTY (or Sonnet if you like!):

      As does the normal … Swallowed up, … in our Big Lie.

    93. James Che says:

      Wull.

      Very well wrote, and appropriate in todays world of global planned abnormality and chaos.

    94. Hatuey says:

      Thanks Andy, for validating the view that Scotland is a colony, with a quote from a respected expert too. Not that I feel I needed validation; my views are carefully formulated by me, rather than the parroted opinions of others or the establishment.

      Are you intending to contact Ciaran Martin any time soon to tell him he’s some sort of crackpot conspiracy theorist?

    95. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hatuey

      Thanks Andy, for validating the view that Scotland is a colony, with a quote from a respected expert too.

      Still behind the curve I see Hatuey. Same old, same old eh? Did you even read the piece? The only way the public and – more importantly in our context – the international community will accept the “Scotland as colony” narrative is when it has been demonstrated that the legal route has been exhausted.

      “IF there is no way to exercise a right, then it is no right at all”. Which part of that are you having difficulty with? If the yoons are demonstrably NOT negotiating in good faith, then the Scotland as colony folks might have a chance of making a convincing case that means we can use that argument.

      Now? Not so much.

    96. Geri says:

      Hatuey – exactly.

      Is this not what the shortbread tin waving, thistle wearing, nativist moonhowlers have been saying for months now?

      Either way it’s a win win for us.
      If we’re not entitled to exercise our democracy then we’re a colony. If we’re a colony, we’ve a legal right to self determination.

      D’oh! I’m pretty sure there’s already a group looking for signatures on this very cause. I’m pretty sure they fall into the Act of Union howlers he likes to dismiss too.

      Mark McNaught has been on about it for years & then there is Salvo.
      Have you signed up, Andy? Maybe you’ll give it some credit now?

      https://salvo.scot/

    97. Geri says:

      Andy & Ruby regards Europe.

      *I know* the benefits of being in Europe but three possibilities to consider during any indyref2 campaign.

      1. We’re fighting to leave English rule. Not 27 other countries all at the same time. It would be carnage & car crash interviews by Unionists deliberately taking Indy down endless rabbit holes. Indy should be front & centre. EU a benefit for later.

      2. If we pitch our wagon to EU then it opens the door to invite a parade of European leaders dragged out at the behest of Better Together to state they’d veto us joining. Or tying up every single TV interview with bent commentators from Europe. Remember Barroso on telly 24/7 during indyref? Totally bent & did Cameron’s bidding for later rewards – see clip.

      3. Imagine how pissed off the Scottish electorate will be if Scotland votes no in an EU referendum? It’s not wise, Imo, to promise something you can’t possibly know the outcome of.

      I’d stick to it being an option & that way it removes 100 Barrosos from our TV screens punted out by the BBC 24/7. JMO

      //youtu.be/5XZfXNt9bVE

    98. Martin says:

      It’s a triggers broom government, isn’t it? The tories playing “how many wholesale government changes can we get away with before we have to allow an election?”

      On the basis of the evidence so far… Many many more.

    99. Andy Ellis says:

      @Geri 3.20 am

      You’re just not getting this are you? Perhaps it’s because you’re posting at 3.20 am: always a bit of a red flag. Did you actually read the piece or not? Nobody except a small bunch of contrarians will accept the “Scotland as colony” mantra UNLESS AND UNTIL the other traditional methods have been exhausted, and we can clearly point to the actions of the British nationalists as being in bad faith. ONLY then will we be able to point to that lack of good faith and anti-democratic stance as a reason why we are not in a voluntary union, but being held against the will of the majority.

      “Ubi jus ibi remedium.”

      This is exactly the reason many of us – including Rev Stu – have been so critical of the SNP and movement as a whole for not putting the legality of a referendum without a S30 order issue beyond legal doubt years go. If that HAD been done, we’d be in a much better place now, rather than still hinging aboot.

      If we’re a colony, we’ve a legal right to self determination.

      We have a legal right to self determination whether we’re a colony or not by the way: it’s just that the status has an impact on how it can be operationalised, and on how and whether it will be recognised.

      Mark McNaught has been on about it for years & then there is Salvo.
      Have you signed up, Andy? Maybe you’ll give it some credit now?

      No I haven’t. I don’t beleive in “cunning plans for indy”. The SSRG and Salvo may be doing some good work and their efforts as ginger groups are laudable, but non-electoral routes to indy at this point are fantasy politics.

      There may come a point they become necessary, but it isn’t now. Concentrating on them, or writing conventional routes to indy off prematurely is a recipe for kicking indy in to the long grass. There simply isn’t the support for them.

    100. Geri says:

      I’ll keep what times I like, did someone appoint you milk monitor? If not, you’ve missed your calling.

      This is exactly the same thing. All avenues have been exhausted – it’s time to gather conventions & assemblies & confront the UN & other organisations to give us our legal definition once & for all. Same as what happened with devolution regards the EU council.

      Hardly warrants your piss taking derision. WTF are you doing for indy other than constantly spitting your dummy & playing timekeeper?

      I don’t see it working anyway. Just as it hasn’t for Chagos islands & the continual abuses carried out by Israel, a a damming report on cruelty to the poor. A *strongly worded letter* won’t cut it. They’ll just fck it along with all the others & forget about it. ‘Satans’ in charge & he rules the roost. All he’s interested in is prime real estate to house his weapons & his legion. Until then we’re staying put & he couldn’t give a feck about Scottish independence. A glance at thier foreign policy tells us that from the get-go & why Obama waded in to indyref.

    101. Andy Ellis says:

      @Geri 12.35 pm

      I didn’t say you weren’t allowed, I drew an entirely unsurprising conclusion that posting in the wee small hours is oftentimes a clue as to the quality of the content. It’s hardly an exceptional point to make, so unless you’re in a different time zone, suck it up.

      It patently ISN’T the same thing. The existing routes haven’t been exhausted, and won’t be until we have the result of the SC case. This isn’t rocket science. Assemblies and conventions will be universally ignored until and unless all the other routes have been tried and shown to be dead ends. If you can’t grasp these simple facts, get a grown up to draw you a diagram.

      If you don’t want to be derided and have the piss ripped out of you, do better don’t whinge about having your arse handed to you for drunk posting at 3AM OK?

    102. Geri says:

      Wings posts at all manner of times.

      It’s obviously rocket science to you.
      The SNP have taken thier cause to the wrong court for a start. With the wrong documents & with the wrong lawyer & with the caveat it doesn’t need enacted – it’s just a ref for the sake of having one. Meanwhile, giving London the loophole of the *gentleman’s agreement* to tighten up.

      I don’t need a diagram but you obviously do.

    103. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      17 October, 2022 at 8:23 am

      As has been said before, a legal remedy that can’t be used is no remedy at all.

      That was highlighted in this article

      https://archive.ph/zHRjD

      As the SNP brief in this case argued, if there is no way to exercise a right, then it is no right at all: ubi jus ibi remedium. However, if the UK government continues to reject any negotiation with Scotland, or to countenance any further independence referendum, then, as Ciaran Martin has written, ‘you have to give up the pretence that this is a voluntary union, that Scotland is allowed to leave’. This reduces Scotland to the status of a colony, or a region with no history of independent statehood, which flies in the face of history, and also undermines any claims for the exceptional, voluntary, ‘family’, nature of the UK Union.

      Why all this pretence that Scotland isn’t a colony?

    104. Big Jock says:

      A colony is a country that has to ask permission from the mother country to exercise the will of it’s people. In other words Serfdom. Scotland is a captured country. We were colonised in 1707, but it was dressed up as a union.



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