The Tools Of The Union
Alert readers will have noted that last night we took down our story about Scotland In Union‘s spreadsheet of all the various super-wealthy Dukes, Duchesses, Viscounts, Earls, Marquesses, Countesses, Sirs, Lords, Ladies, Colonels and Brigadiers who fund their “grassroots” anti-independence operation. (AGM pictured below.)
We believe we’re entitled under the law to run the article, and hope to have it back up soon, but frankly we don’t even want to think about the cost of calling a top media lawyer on a Sunday that’s also Hogmanay, so that might have to wait a day or two.
And anyway, it’s not even nearly the most interesting aspect of the affair.
When we were sent the document, we quizzed our source at length to check both the veracity and the legality of the document. We sought, and received, a categorical and unequivocal assurance that it had not been obtained through any unlawful actions, saying that we wouldn’t run the story if it had. And we pressed our source – who was and remains anonymous, and contacted us through a “burner” email account – for precise details of how it had come to be in their hands.
We did this because under the Data Protection Act (DPA) it can be an offence to receive confidential/sensitive information, unless doing so is in the public interest. We sought legal advice before we ran the article to confirm that was the case with this particular data, and were told by more than one lawyer that it was.
There are at least six obvious grounds for that belief:
(1) It’s in the general public interest that people know who is trying to influence politics in the UK while seeking to conceal their identity, eg by making donations £1 below the Electoral Commission’s declaration limit of £7,500. This was the case for numerous donors to SiU, who all handed over £7,499.
(2) It’s in the public interest for Yes supporters to know if politics in Scotland is being influenced by large injections of money from outside Scotland, particularly those with a vested financial interest in the status quo.
(3) It’s in the public interest for people considering donating to an organisation like Scotland In Union to know whether their data will be handled securely.
(4) It’s in the public interest to establish whether Information Commissioner’s Office rules have been broken with regard to targeting donors by wealth.
(5) It’s in the public interest to know whether Electoral Commission rules have been broken with regard to declaring large donations.
(6) It’s in the public interest to know whether an organisation declaring itself to be “grassroots” is nothing of the sort, and is in fact representing the interests of a small wealthy elite.
However, ultimately what every single lawyer in the world will tell you in pretty much any given situation is “This is what I think, but of course it’s all a matter of interpretation and there are no guarantees. That’ll be £5,000 please”.
We’ll get back to that in a minute. But what our interrogation of our source eventually revealed was that they were – or at least were claiming to be – a disgruntled senior Scotland In Union insider, either current or former, who was deeply unhappy with various aspects of the organisation’s management and direction.
(The most recent date we could find referred to on the document was 23 July 2017, so it could have come into our source’s hands any time in the last five months.)
And at this point we’d invite readers to imagine just how disgruntled someone from SiU would have to be to leak to Wings Over Scotland, of all things.
So we took steps to confirm the veracity of the document, as we detailed in yesterday’s article, until we were satisfied that (a) it was real, and (b) only someone in SiU could have known the location of the shared, unpassworded Google Drive it was stored on. And then we ran the story, having first meticulously redacted any information that could have been used to identify the donors.
Within a couple of hours, a furious response arrived from SiU’s lawyers – a specialist media-law firm we’d last encountered acting for the Scotsman when we sued it for defamation in 2014 and secured thousands of pounds in an out-of-court settlement.
The letter made all manner of dire threats, some serious and some farcical, but the key thing was that it removed any doubt about the veracity of the spreadsheet – confirming that it was real and only accessible to a handful of senior SiU employees.
And unless SiU’s lawyers were lying (which we’re sure they wouldn’t) then clearly that would make it all but certain that our source was indeed who they’d claimed to be – something we’d had no way of verifying up until that point.
By this stage we saw little benefit in spending thousands of pounds of precious Wings funds dragging a rival specialist lawyer off the ski-slopes and onto the phone late on a Saturday afternoon the day before Hogmanay in order to defend an article that had already been online for hours, when all their advice would amount to was what we already knew from the previous day – namely “there’s a clear public-interest defence, but it’s all a matter of interpretation so, meh, it’s pretty much your call. That’ll be £10,000 please, because it’s the holidays”.
So we pulled the article temporarily, pending some further advice in normal business hours. But that still leaves us with one big question: what is it about Scotland In Union that’s making its own members so incredibly unhappy that they’d resort in desperation to leaking to the officially vilest separatist site of them all?
And our source had quite a few things to say about that, although of course we can’t currently say whether any of it’s true.
– They claimed that despite the vast sums the organisation has raised, most of it has been squandered with very little to show for it – chiefly on excessive staff levels and salaries, including former chief exec Graeme Pearson being on a salary of £1000 a week for one-and-a-half days’ work.
– They told us donations have “all but dried up”.
– They said that ordinary supporters were angry that ex-Labour politicians like Pearson and Pamela Nash were being used to front a group bankrolled almost entirely by rich Tory landowners.
– And they claimed these reasons, rather than disagreements over Brexit, were behind the splitting off of the “Unity UK” splinter group, as well as suggesting that Unity UK may have been offering leaks about SiU to Scottish newspapers.
Yesterday we were also sent more SiU documents, entirely unsolicited and without any prior contact, from a different email account using the name “Data Dump”.
It appears that these documents – including the details of more fundraising events attended by Lords and Ladies and prominent Unionist politicians – have also been sent to other pro-independence sites including Bella Caledonia, who have speculated, apparently independently, that Unity UK’s David Clews (known mockingly in the indy community as “David Spokesperson”) might be behind it.
Scotland In Union appears to be breaking into unhappy fragments. It’s already seen an “intellectual” faction splinter off in the form of These Islands – who were swiftly caught up in a racism row over academic Nigel Biggar‘s views on the British Empire – and now they’ve got a somewhat, um, earthier offshoot in the form of UUK, ranting on Twitter about World War 2 and “the toff-elite” and offering Yes supporters out.
(“Data Dump”, whoever they may be, claimed to us that the Scottish Conservatives also hate Scotland In Union for “stealing their donations and their thunder”, and that Ruth Davidson “despises” SiU director Alistair Cameron. It’s certainly notable that they seem to have closer links to more Labour and Lib Dem politicians than Tory ones, with Adam Tomkins the only elected Tory we know of to have been seen in public with Cameron or SiU, compared to the Lib/Lab likes of Willie Rennie, Alistair Darling, Anas Sarwar, Robert Brown, Jackie Baillie, Pearson and Nash.)
So it may be that we’re seeing the last angry thrashings of this particular organisation. The media has increasingly distanced itself from the group in recent months, and its next accounts (which were due to be filed last month) should be fascinating. We’ll be keeping – within the limits of the law, of course – a close eye on them.
Very interest comments from you Stu. Thank you for the good work. I found it interesting your comments that Ruthie is not happy with them.
Rats in a sack doesn’t come into it. Cheats and liars.
The usual shower of psycho of bastards who would do and say anything to line their own pockets with public money. Kill and maim anyone to line their pockets. Break the Law with impunity. Disgusting beyond belief. Pearson is just a crook. Demoted in the Police for criminal behaviour supported by criminal unionist politicians. Most of them should be in jail. Instead of troughing on the public purse. Wasting £Billions of taxpayers money. Enough is never enough for them.
This has the hallmarks of the historically shady Lord Lieutenants system – my impression was they were always elected at Tory dinner parties.
Rearrange these words to format a well known phrase or saying.;
Fighting—-Ferrets —–Sack.
What a lovely end to the year.
We will always have your back Stu. You know this.
Honest to goodness well done Rev Stu. The unionist using Wings to settle their disputes. The irony. It is just absolutely hilarious. These lot are a small insignificant bunch. No doubt the floodgates are bound to open to single opposition to their appalling behaviour. Expect more ‘leaks’in the future. Dig away moles.
Perfect post for the last day of 2017.
A Guid New Year tae ane an’ a’, and many may ye see.
The criminal Young voted out, comes back as deputy Lord Lieutenant. Crookett. Two of the biggest crooks in the City. They get vote out and still come back to haunt. Wasted £Billions of public money on grotesque projects of no value. No one wants and cut funding for essential services. Causing traffic chaos and ruining the local economy. Along with their unionists mates. A disgrace to democracy and the City. Pycho bastards. Not fit for public service. On a illegally changed electoral system no one wanted. To give unfair advantage. Public disgrace.
As ever,’Follow the money’.
– the wee shites.
Wonderful journalism.
Oh dearie me …it doth appear that the rats are finally deserting the sinking ship that
iswas H.M.S. Corrupt and Broken Union. 😀Fascinating, telling and all pointing to a very fractured, demented and rudderless bunch of over-rich toffs.
Tick tock for their Union
Have a Guid New Year which looks like turning into a momentous one for Scotland.
“The letter made all manner of dire threats, some serious and some farcical, but the key thing was that it removed any doubt about the veracity of the spreadsheet – confirming that it was real and only accessible to a handful of senior SiU employees. And unless SiU’s lawyers were lying (which we’re sure they wouldn’t) then clearly that would make it all but certain that our source was indeed who they’d claimed to be – something we’d had no way of verifying up until that point.”
Brilliant and hilarious 🙂
Rev Stu on a roll again. Go on get the bastards. If ever there was sweet revenge for their duplicity. Bigots and racists. A cabel of crooks. Killing innocent people. Murdering bastards. Don’t get involved in the cross fire or greedy lawyers. Leave them to it.. Wasted space. This is what they are wasting £Billions of taxpayers money on.
Peace and love. They would not know the meaning of the words. Pycho bastards.
This is turning into the best Hogmanay show ever- almost better than Rikki Fulton.
Icing on the cake to know that (t)Ruthless is frustrated by them too –
How could they give the Union such a bad name and cause all these rich donors to keep their hands in their pockets – Damn!!!
The trouble with a group of people like SiU is that they are fighting against Scotland because of their selfishness, their negativity and their bitterness and it looks like it is destroying them – Hell mend them.
Looks like it’s gonna be a Guid New Year and as they say in ‘The Broons’ :
“A very Happy New Year to all our Readers!” and especially to you Stu, thank you for all that you do for Scotland.
You gotta ask why the leak came to WOS and not one of the MSM puppets or even the national?
Could it be a double bluff, somebody trying to settle scores within SIU and trying to get WOS dragged into a costly legal battle? Interesting to see how it pans out, certainly seems to me that it is in the public interest to have that data in the public domain, however SIU have/had some wealthly backers who might want a punt on taking WOS to the cleaners. We are probably going to see what a true grassroutes organisation is capable off.
Guid newyear to all wossers.
Do we suppose that the MSM have been sitting on this for some time and the anonymous source has turned to the Vile Cybernat Controller because of no luck elsewhere?
The Rev has displayed his customary courage and acted in the public interest.
As usual, they try to ignore Wings, but now Data Dump has obliged with more, and distributed it widely, a MSM news blackout is beginning to look just a wee bit difficult to maintain.
Gripping stuff. They’ll be snorting into their soup down at the astro-Turf Club.
Money is their God eh? A yoons number one goal in life. Thought that during campaigning as that’s all I heard from dissenters at yes stalls. They are even taking ridiculous sums from their own kind! Greedy gits.
“ordinary supporters were angry that ex-Labour politicians like Pearson and Pamela Nash were being used to front a group bankrolled almost entirely by rich Tory landowners.”
I do feel a bit sorry for ordinary people in Scotland who, for whatever reason, still support the union. In the run up to the 2014 referendum, I was angry about the fact Better Together never debated. They took a haughty attitude that they were the UK government and establishment, they had the media on their side and anyone pro indy was lower than vermin, to be called names like Cybernat, Natz etc and not engaged with. As a result, there were yes events – genuine grassroots, church halls etc – and there were no events – glitzy, invited audiences, media covered. But scant few yes/no debates ordinary people could get involved in.
Last time around, that hurt the yes cause as well as, more critically, harming the democratic debate that should have been happening in Scotland and handing large swathes of it to the London-based media to simply denigrate or ignore one side of it.
This time around, I suspect it’ll be those on the no side in Scotland who suffer most, if the media driven astroturfing campaign so far is anything to go by. These Lords, Ladies and wealthy press barons are the people speaking for the ordinary no voter on the streets of Scotland, and denying them their own voice, as well as denying Scotland a proper debate.
Brilliant work as usual Stu – where would we be without Wings !
Happy New Year to everyone on here.
Another great piece from The Rev.
In-fighting, fragmenting, groups each claiming the purest ideology … I thought that was the preserve of the far left. I also thought it was the behaviour of those who knew they couldn’t win and were getting their kicks squabbling among themselves.
And now we see right wing Unionists appearing to act the same way!
I don’t think SiU were ever going to be our main opposition in IndyRef2, there was always an element of hamfistery about them. Perhaps what we are seeing is a ‘night of the long knives’ where the Right is getting its house in order by destroying their own weak elements. That’s more like right wing behaviour!
The fact that the oppostion to indepenence now resemble monty pythons, the peoples front of judea/judean peoples front is hilarious.
Its another sign that we have a window in late 2018/early 2019 that will be then most fortuitous time we have ever had to hold an independence referendum.
MSM would avoid doing anything about this, doesn’t fit with their agenda.
Ah, so the plot thickens, or should that be the plotters are so thick. Absolutely hilarious. Fair cheered me up yesterday and today. I think that maybe the yoons are in a fair auld pickle. Good enough for them. Who the Sam Hill gave these clowns from outside OUR country, the right to decide what will happen to us, or our independence. Money talks a’ doon the centuries richt enough.It’s time we stood up and decided for oorsels.
Well thank you Rev Stu, what a great job that you carry out on our behalf. You are worth your weight in gold sir, and you should take your place in history when the script is eventually written, and we are an independent country standing proud in the world.
Oh well, I’d better go and get on with cooking the meat for tomorrows steak pie. This article will keep me entertained for the rest of the day. Nae wunner the wean that is 2018 is trying to crawl away. “Somebody” said last Ne’erday that 2017 was going to be a quiet year didn’t they. Well if this was quiet, 2018 is going to be one hell of a ride. Buckle up everybody.
In case I don’t make it back later, a guid new year tae a’ the wingers, and especially the Rev. Lang may yer lum reek son, and watch yer back.
Good to see wee Graeme Pearson getting an earner just shows anyone can make a good living.
Looked at all the front pages this morning, purchased Herald on Sunday.
Nothing, absolute silence about the double explosions hitting the bigots of Scotland in Union.
The small issue of the plan to murder the Irish PM, silence.
Even if all three events were untrue the allegations are heavily newsworthy.
That’s the last Sunday Herald in the Smoothpiece household.
I cannot believe they are doing this the news blackout is, I think more sinister than the English Nationalists in Scotland SiU secret meetings and activities.
The attempt to kill the Irish PM is something you would expect darn sarf to try.
I never actually thought the Centre could exercise such control over the media, and I did not think they would actually have a news black out, dangerous times.
Stew, why don’t you contact “The Colonel ” direct?, she can’t help it, she just can’t not stop talking, and as a result, will spill the beans without even realising it.
She must be in the know, regarding SiU, how far back do they go?, far enough to be the source of “The Colonel’s ” pre knowledge of the postal votes ?.
I have said it before and will say it again. There is nothing more divisive than Unity.
Time to…sort of…throw in the towel guys…looks like you didn’t look after the pennies so the pounds are off in search of astroturf pastures new.
Alternatively, perhaps it’s not too late to see if those Nigerian generals’ wives might help out with a gold bar or two?
Very brave.
I guess the establishment will go for an Injunction to prevent further publication.
I think their argument will be that legally their donations under £7500 allow for anonymity within the electoral commissions statutory requirements. Therefore that anonymity should be protected. (Hate to admit this, but they may have a point).
Likewise, as subjects of the UK (which Scotland voted to remain within) their English domestic residence, will be brushed aside as irelevant.
Someone made a very good suggestion yesterday, of putting up a map with all the postcode hits of approximate locations of donors. This would be very hard hitting visually, and get round the above very nicely. Likewise number of Lords, Sirs, etc, without naming names.
The wheels of SiU may well be falling off, but that will not last, the real work and decisions are likely being made elsewhere… like getting the Beeb to donate reporters to all the local rags, you can bet this will ‘trickle’ down to local newsletters also.
It is nice to have conformation of something long suspected. But I’m not sure it moves the no voters over to yes in any great numbers.
It could prove to be a hornets nets poked, and a very time consuming management exercise thereafter.
Having said that, last time I researched, Injunctions appeared to cost something in the region of £200,000 a pop, and only last 1 or 2 years before having to be re-applied for. Hmmm, can’t see the Lairds and Lardies liking coughing up for that in order to sort out this level of incompetence.
I still think it brilliant though, and love the fact you’ve put it out there.
Take very good care of yourself, best wishes. Got your back.
Stewart, ( well it’s almost new -year!)
So glad that your supping wi a very long spoon.
Your dealing with very,very nasty people, mostly belonging to a very nasty party.
I wonder how many labour and libdem supporters know how much some of their elected Politian’s and activists are involved in a Tory funded political organisation.
It appears to be a chose your own colour tory party deal, funded by the normal Scottish backstabbers.
HAPPY NEW YEAR.
PS. can’t wait to see how labour activist Dr Scott Arthur responses to his involvement in SiU on the labour hame blog.
When you said it was from someone within the organisation I feared that it was a set up. Now I realise that is way beyond their intellectual capacity.
I hear there are several productions of “Macbeth” planned in 2018. The Royal Shakespeare Co, The National (of England) Theatre, the Royal Opera Co. and another more arty co. whose name I forget.
It’s a tale of rampant ambition and greed leading to implosion and self destruction. Sums up UK 2017.
Farewell to all that. Chris Cairns’ toddler on the run has the right idea.
Congratulations Stu for a riveting commentary through 2017. Good to end it on a high note.
Good to see my Slovene girlfriend right in the SiU thick of it, taking a very big Data Dump.
Letters for the UKOK reign in Scotland, all the way from Ljubljana, Slovenia/Glesga uni senior common room. Its almost guaranteed to get you UKOK knighthood too, or whatever they call the knighthood they give girls, a Princesshood?
Lenny Hartley says:
31 December, 2017 at 10:59 am
You gotta ask why the leak came to WOS and not one of the MSM puppets or even the national?
I think the reason this pile of SiU info went to Stu was primarily down to the fact that the MSM have been kissing the SiU’s earse ever since they started Lenny and the “sender” probably thought, rightly in my view, the MSM would do nothing with it.
As for the info being sent to the National only time will tell but my guess is that the “sender” decided just to ignore the MSM completely even those very few papers that support independence.
There is of course the other more likely reason, again only my view, which is that Wings is widely known to be pro independence and hated throughout the unionist camp and that by sending the info to Wings the “sender” was giving the unionist camp in general and SiU in particular a damned good kicking over how they operate.
So SiU is dying, either by incompetence driven melt down, or by a typical right wing putsch.
Perhaps we should consider what might replace it? IMO we are much more likely to see the big money social media manipulations which allegedly won for Trump and Leave. Or dark money, DUP style, being ‘spirited from nowhere’ into targeted advertising,
At least SiU appeared to be squandering the toff’s money. If used by a more secretive and sophisticated entity, it might be more of a threat to the democratic process.
Offtopic..
Uk gov to use volunteers for guarding borders.
I cant see this idea working out.
link to archive.is
All the ukip types and other racists will jump at the chance.
@Alba man,
Indeed they are nasty people. One of their board members was the commander of ALL forces in N Ireland and would have been privy to the information re the plan to assassinate Charles Haughey.
He has links therefore with Loyalist murder gangs, and that is a concern. The Glennane Gang and what happened to the likes of the Miami Showband should be a clear warning to us all that the British State mechanisms have no restrictions on what they will do should they consider the need arises. They work hand in glove with State sponsored murderers and terrorists.
Murderers and barbarians all.
OT anybody read the ordure in the Observer about our dreadful polis running about in ANCIENT cars? Apparently the Lib Dums thought this sooooo important that they put in an FOI request.
Might I suggest that Police Scotland chase up the monies owed by this bunch of chancers ? Then they might be able to buy some shit hot new cars.
Nice one Stu, you’ve got them rattled.
Could it be that the “elite!?” land owners have privy to “the control” of Scotland’s last natural resources, i.e wind and water.
Who knows what the Empire have in mind for the natural wilderness of our beautiful country. Could it be the controlling “elite!?” will have financial gain regarding “this water runs through my land” etc.
The wind energy empire seems to have ground to a halt ( again greedy land owners maybe waiting to see if the Indy Ref threat finally dies?) you could also include the natural water course.
There has to be another reason for the select few to hold control over the mass wilderness of Scotland it cannot be just shooting and fishing, can it? (although they get subsides from the EU for acreage in farming) not sure about wilderness.
Their biggest fear is “wee Jimmy and wee Maggie” having a say in running the future of Scotland because in the Elites eyes the little person squanders, has no morals and doesn’t know how to manage finances.
Us in the “real world” know who the real squanderers are the “Tristrans and Tabithas” who happily pay £1000s on a bottle of bubbly and get a pat on the back for simply being ar*eholes.
I hate to use the “elite” description because the ruling masses are worse than the rest of us.
Just had 3 days away supposedly skiing “nae snaw” but walked miles across what has to be one of the most beautiful places on earth,
“Scotland in winter. STUNNING”
Happy New Year to everyone at WoS, 2018 is going to be a cracker.
David Clews was my instant reaction to the leak, but doesn’t quite fit the profile, so there’s an existing leak – and probably more than one. So they’re riddled with holes, and like a riddle, don’t hold much water.
Sunday Herald again featuring one of the Scotland in Union correspondents but no mention of the fact.
I am considering a new resolution. Have I just bought my last edition for 2017 and should I even bother in 2018?
Delightful reading, Stu, yesterday and today.
Man, I am SO looking forward to next year’s referendum.
Grattan a Labour supporter has been letter writing for years and years. Behaviour which could be looked in a obsessive. A flawed personality. For those unfortunate enough to waste their money on lying newspapers. Repeating the same,boring monalogue,which does not hold up to any thought of rationality. Making claims which are obviously absurd. Usually ignored by many people. ‘That nutter is off again.’ Just an annoyance. The white noise.
There used to be a person letter writing in the Scotsman. Before they keeled over? Malthus theory of feckless women headed single families with children. The cause of all misdeanmeanors. On and on relentless. Must have been frustrated. Obviously, oblivious to the fact and never heard of the invention of the Pill and free contraception. Totally irrational facts. So out of kilter with reality. Or the demographics of falling population all over Europe and most advanced capitalist societies. Embarrassing to the readership of the paper.
There are just as many rich and prominent people support the SNP and Independence and donate. Increasing? Along with a marvellous swell of dedicated people and activists. Including a majority? of the elderly or retired. Who have the time to campaign. Many busy people have less time for activism. Just trying to make ends meet.
Could this be a dirty tricks attempt to close down WOS….by tying you up in legal crap and eventually causing you to close down due to the cost of said legal crap?? Call me paranoid, but I wouldn’t put anything past them.
For the record, I’d be happy to crowd-fund any legal fees in the name of “freedom of speech” after all…the msm cry “freedom of the press” at the least wee suggestion of impropriety.
Jason Smoothpiece
Dangerous times indeed – consider how many documents have recently been announced as having gone AWOL.
The Zinoviev letter, documents about the Troubles and Scottish matters are all hugely relevant and important pieces of recent historical Archive material- there is a massive threat to democracy as we know it ( see Catalonia) and the media is virtually silent, yet it will come to bite them on the bum quite soon if they don’t start some sort of resistance PDQ. We have now an effective gagging of true news in the UK.
We have a government which gives gongs to it’s own cringing Politicians and ignores the ‘heroes’ of Grenfell and the Manchester/London bombings;
rewards ineptness and despises truth;
punishes the weak and infirm and rewards the rich;
creates division, bigotry and xenophobia and is destroying the NHS.
We have to make sure this news gets out to as many people as possible, so tok to your friends, family and enemies and tell them about this website.
One look and they’ll be hooked!
Is Keza the Leak????
Taking things at face value: many of the business community backed NO because they feared indy would mean Scotland being out of the Single Market, so damaging their profits.
They are also almost to a man / woman Tories or Red Tories.
Within the Tories and NO supporters there is the money is everything priority camp v British nationalism priority competing factions. That’s creating huge tensions.
The money first people are largely for British nationalism, but not if it’s going to cause serious damage to their bank balances.
So, what’s more damaging to the bank balances:
indy Scotland in the EU Single Market v the UK outside the EU Single Market?
That’s a hard one to answer, as it’s estimates, predictions. Indy Scotland could be the best option.
That’s tensions that could be exploited to implode the ( money first) business people bankrolling of any No campaign.
Leaving the xenophobes / BritNats / Racists / etc to back NO. Of course, that’s still a lot of people and money.
The SNP’s strategy of trying to keep the UK in the Single Market may cheese off the extremists, but if successful would remove the tensions from the largest proportion of funders who put business first ahead of their ideologies and prejudices.
Basically, it would encourage the more sensible of the business community ( which seems to be the largest proportion) to continue to fully support the Union, as it would GUARANTEE uninterrupted and continuing access to the Single Market compared to indy Scotland that doesn’t yet exist.
The Unionist extremist Brexiteers have messed it up for those who backed NO to remain in the Single Market and they are beginning to fight amongst themselves like rats in a sack.
I cannot accept it is sensible for the SNP to seek to remove that tension and make the Union the status quo option again and thus the safer option.
Unless, the SNP are now serving the Unionist business community – and the Union’s interests -first and foremost and hope to get more funding to support the devolutionist SNP as the reward.
Comment from the article
“whoever they may be, claimed to us that the Scottish Conservatives also hate Scotland In Union for “stealing their donations and their thunder”, and that Ruth Davidson “despises” SiU director Alistair Cameron.”
Hmmm, as we have seen with Ruthie she keeps some rabid company and that was well exposed, so a negative for her for others to see her true self.
So, would it be beyond imagination that the comment may have or could have had the thumbs up from Ruthie in order to cover her support for these kind of Yoon groups?
Perhaps in her mind it may be a good move, in order for to hide just how extreme she is, judging from her known “friends” anyway.
Am I wrong in my thinking?
I seem to have vague recollections that SiU wanted to be the positive, friendly face of Unionism. Cuddle that lot and you will never play the guitar again (credit to Basil Fawlty).
Nice to see that they appear to be reverting back to their more deranged U KOK default setting (1950s street parties with Union Flags, pictures of the Queen and a rather disturbing fetish for Commando comics.)
[…] Wings Over Scotland The Tools Of The Union Alert readers will have noted that last night we took down our story about Scotland In […]
“ex-Labour politicians like Pearson and Pamela Nash were being used to front a group bankrolled almost entirely by rich Tory landowners.”
Doesn’t that just sum up the whole Scottish Labour Party and their involvement in “Better Together”? Serving the interests of the Unionist establishment rather than those who vote for them.
O/T
Interesting article in the Herald – Richard Leonard says Scotland could be an independent country. ( Just archived by Jack Murphy)
link to archive.is
However, the article quotes Sillars’ reply extensively. Sillars thinks it is a honey trap to woo back Yes voting ex-Labour supporters.
That would be a mistakes as Corbyn will not win in England and another Tory gov. would be a disaster for Scotland; so basically the only safe path is vote SNP/indie, although he can’t quite bring itself to say that.
I wonder why the source chose the Rev and not the SNP leadership.
Interesting comment Les. Hmmm!
It appears they’ve gone beyond a Barney Bear moment and straight into a three stooges style eye poking contest. 😮
Take care Stu, thoughts with you at this time of year.
I have said it often that British Empire has many times thrown all at a cause in last days of holding on to a country it conqoured.
We may yet rid Scotland of the rot.
A guid nu year tae one an au here.
Well done.
Just shows- even a Unionist doesn’t trust Unionist papers to run a news worthy story.
How about the BBC, stv, ITV, Channel 4, Sky?
Looks like in the next week or two we will have to tune into foreign channels.
Still I commented yesterday that since spanner was responding to stu he may NOT have been aware at that stage that it was his own kind fighting amongst themselves that allowed the public interest story into the public domain.
Couldn’t Ruth Davidson just control her troops? Problems with sitting in a tank it makes you feel snug and secure while pointing in 1 direction. Evan a spanner canny help.
Have a great Hogmanay WoS (no New Years Eve in my family) and a guid Nereday.
Busy Year ahead.
Well done Wings, what a scoop, we have all known about the tactics Scotland in union used, but had no proof to pursue. Now surly these band of merry lords and ladies must dissociate from this group and withdraw any future funding. Or reap the wrath of some very disappointed and disgusted yessers.
The MSM has also got to answer, why haven’t vetted certain literature sent for publication many times over.
Again what a scoop Well done Stu
I’m old enough to remember when news and investigative journalism like this used to be carried out by newspapers and occasionally TV. You know, the ‘professionals’ who now write about Celebrity Big Brother.
bbc
egg thrower Jim murphy unlimited copy v virtualty no copy British try to assassinate former Irish pm
Brass eye territory if not so serious
The House of Lords should have be abolished years ago. An unelected cabel with absolutely no power except of delay. The usual waste of £Billions of taxpayers money. On the usual cabel of useless incompetents already well heeled trioughing on public money. A public disgrace of corruption and privilege. The ‘honours’ system in dishonourable. Many of them are tax evaders living abroad. Non resdents.. A mockery. The usual action of an unelected privilege and elite. Unfair, unequal and unnecessary.
Ron Maclean says:
31 December, 2017 at 11:57 am
I wonder why the source chose the Rev and not the SNP leadership.
It is standard practice of infiltrators of democratic movements to attempt to discredit the leadership in the eyes of the supporters. This type of comment illustrates the method.
The BBC are old hands at these propaganda techniques. We’re in for the umpteenth rerun of Overthrow an Oil Rich Middle East Country this festive season with the astro turf Iran protesters.
This is so brilliant!
The ‘Cyberleakers’ are fighting like rats in a sack, with the potential for it all to escalate into a full scale leak war!
All of it fought on ‘Battlefield Bath’
Why Wings?
well it just goes to show that even those at the top of the Unionist tree know full well, that the Rev is the only journalist in Scottish Politics with the integrity and courage to print this kind of stuff.
And more importantly…Much More importantly, it hints to us all that they know that it is far more likely to be paid attention to by the people who read Wings, no matter their political outlook (We see you peeking in Duncan 🙂
The people who read ‘The Daily Red Coat’ or ‘The Royal Heraldry’ will often skip over the political stories (except for the headline) and go straight to the latest gang murder, the ‘perfect tweet response’ by some washed up celebrity, or some 12 year old ‘wonder kid’ who Rangers are alleged to be thinking of signing as a youth player!
The people who read Wings are far more likely to be politically aware, so if you want your leak to have impact in Scotland, then it makes sense to leak it to the Rev.
To put it another way, Think about the recent Labour Leadership Contest. It was striking that within hours of the contenders being announced, the leaks against Anas Sarwar began.
Within days their was a full-scale smear campaign being waged against him, that got so bad that his dad even had to fly into Scotland fro Pakistan, in an attempt to protect his boy.
So what was Anas doing all this time? You can bet he was trying to ‘counter leak’ (it’s the Labour way) but how many damaging leaks do you remember against Richard Leonard?
That’s right..None!
As Anas discovered, when it comes to the MSM in Scotland, you will get any old lie or smear against the SNP printed if you’re a Labour MP/MSP, but if you try to smear a ‘favoured’ Labour MSP?
Forget It, it aint happening!
If Anas had wanted to fight back, he should’ve gone to Wings with his leaks, maybe a step too far for a Labour leadership candidate at this time, but I wouldn’t be to surprised if this leaks has opened the eyes of a lot of politicians/activists or potential whistle-blowers, that if you want a story, or scandal to ‘get out there’ and don’t want it filtered through some weak editors preferred political stance (or rather, that of their papers wealthy owners)
To get the truth out…You need to contact Wings!
I’ve been glued to my laptop the past couple of days – what fantastic investigative reading.
Brilliant. Have a great New Year, Rev.
heedtracker: “…a princesshood?”
Made me chuckle.
Reluctant Nationalist says:
31 December, 2017 at 12:20 pm
heedtracker: “…a princesshood?”
When I rise to power, everyone WILL be made knights and princesses.
Although, on balance, by the time I do rise to power, everyone will be, the tory ones at least, red and blue;-(
Curioser and curioser. The Tim Burton Alice In Wonderland was on last night as you can tell.
The time has come the Walrus said
To talk of many things
Of shoes and ships and sealing wax
Of cabbages and Kings
Of why the sea is boiling hot
And whether pigs have Wings.
Nonsense seems appropriate to these things about SIU and offshoots. As well of course of being an absolute hoot.
The Tories had no problems with bankrolling Labour types during the Referendum. Must be now La Ruthie is second biggest at Holyrood (but a LONG way behind Oor Nicola) that they are wondering why.
So all this is really Labour’s fault for being so damn useless.
“Data dump” story now also up on Bella with some interesting additional detail.
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
The only people of any intregrity and ultraism of fairness and equality are the ones who never get a mention. They refused a dishonourable ‘honour’. A farce of privilege and ill gained totally discredited political system.
@ HandandShrimp
I’ll not hear a bad word about Commando Comics, they, the Victor and the Hotspur taught me German and Japanese.
“Aiyee, Banzai, Englander Schweinhunde!”
Why Wings?
Who has one of the biggest readerships in the world of political blogs, including politicians of all stripes and journalists of all stripes. It is a no brainer as our Merkin chums would say.
Follow the money!
Canavasing and postering at election times is revealing.
SNP members out with ladders sticking up posters, knocking on doors, speaking to people and handing out leaflets.
The others, paid contractors out with ladders postering and leaflets posted direct.
I can just see SMSMs approach to this story now:
“Ruth uses Wings to boost Scots Tory coffers”
Or some such waffle.
Dear Coco Anderson…
Nobody cares about your dribbling pish son, you pissed your bed over christmas, showed your true red white and blue colours, so do yourself a favour, and stop embarrassing yourself, theres a good wee laddie…!
I love a good story with a twist. Lets hope the twist turns out to be open publication of the data and a lot of in-fighting in the Yoon ranks at worst with criminal charges at best. Happy new Year to all xxx
Excellent article thanks Stuart for keeping us informed.
More
The BBC is to spend £8 million a year on 144 ‘Local Democracy Reporters’. 90% of them will be employees of three large corporations. These three reported profits in 2016 of £198.8 million. They are not local. They are not democracies. #mediareform
2:15 pm – 30 Dec 2017
Good rt on WoS twitter.
Pacific quay yoon culture’s as tight as a ducks arse. Imagine what the gimps in the giant mausoleum of yoon would do with this leaking:D
Glad to hear that wings over scotland consults several solicitors for their interpretation and advice on legal matters because make no mistake about it Englands Westminster has support in all areas of the world and it will use dirty tricks to keep control of Scotland just make sure you check and double check everything and don’t trust anyone completely ,it is often those you trust that betray you especially where money and power are at stake.There are Scots who will betray Scotland it’s amazing how many of them like to be active but only if anonymous or done remotely , you never see them debate or knock on doors ,they sneak about during the day and pop leaflets through your letterbox when you are not in or they write letters to newspapers many also pretend to be socialists but are in fact outright Tories.
Do not ever believe you are being paranoid because you are not the dirty tricks lies and sneaky British nationalist behaviour knows no bounds and will do anything and I do mean anything to keep control of Scotland .
Never give up ,stand firm , stand together, face them off , be strong we will have to be strong,we will win , Scottish independence is coming.
It’s just like Better Together never went away.
Relaunch, publicity, ridicule, collapse…. Relaunch, publicity, ridicule, collapse…
Better Together, Vote No Borders, SDL, Rory the Tory’s Hands Across the Border, Scotland in Union, Unity… Scottish Labour…
Scottish Unionism is a laughing stock.
What isn’t funny, and infinitely more dangerous is the constancy and mendacity of the media which gives it all constant support, a credible platform, and oxygen of publicity.
The Unionists are still seeking their Holy Trinity:
1. Favourable and wholly uncritical media monopoly, check!
2. Political mandate. Well, Davidson couldn’t win, but seems serviceable enough to provide the “Scottish” tagline for UK propaganda, so that’s a check!…kinda. No to a second Referendum!!
But where Unionism comes really unstuck is 3. Grassroots infrastructure that cannot be faked. What they’ve got is a grassroots infrastructure which cannot fill a venue, and appeals to nobody except the controversial fruit loops, sectarians and BritNat knuckledraggers of the Orange Order, and the really dodgy ones who aren’t ashamed of being Tories.
If real investigative journalism existed in the UK @Bob Mack says at 11:37 am
“One of their board members was the commander of ALL forces in N Ireland and would have been privy to the information re the plan to assassinate Charles Haughey. He has links therefore with Loyalist murder gangs”
They would be doorstepping said former commander of UK Forces NI with a camera crew and asking him if he knew and was he complicit in these state sponsored assassinations.
Just imagine for a minute this was Russia’s KGB/FSB not the UKs MI5 24hr rolling news for days, front page headlines.
The fact they don’t and that there is radio/TV silence on this story once again shows we have no news media worthy of the name only State Supporting Propaganda.
What a scoop, Stu! Well done for being the top blogger and most fearless one to support Scottish Independence.
This is a huge story, so thanks to you, we now know who SIU really are.
I hope you have the best Hogmanay ever and please take care! I don’t believe in the honour system but would make an exception for you, when Scotland becomes Independent.
Won’t hear a word against Commando comics @HandandShrimp says at 11:51 am
“Gott im Himmel, Donner und Blitzen, dort lernte ich Deutsch!!”
Sorry, had to watch the other fireworks down under on a bridge I have also climbed, although, I have not reached the top of this one yet.
Stu, this is one of many articles I have read all through, I usually get the gist of what you are getting at quick.
Glad other wingers have got drops for their eyes, we have to keep them in good health.
Massive story and revelations break.
The legacy media ignore it completely.
Not a whisper beyond Twitter and Indy sites WoS, Bella etc
That, in itself, is a huge story. Propaganda and opinion management by omission on a grand scale.
They/it/them leaked this stuff on Wings cause Wings is the biggest and most accessed political news outlet in Scotland,
the BBC/STV/Rags combined do not have the regard and esteem that Stuart has among all Scots wanting truth from their news source.
If you need a fighting fund,just ask,you got it.
Apologies for going O/T but JWT, at 1.25pm, mentioning Commando comics, and the headline of this article – “Tool of the Union” reminded me of George Galloway on RT last night. Interviewing Mark Millar of comics fame. Galloway expressed his displeasure at “Catholics” daring to vote for the SNP. Bad form George! Decent folk like us here and unlike Labour in Scotland, try to keep religion out of politics and your claims to be a “socialist” are not matched by your allegiances, actions or rhetoric and can you tell me when there will ever be a Socialist government in the UK? Pity a man who is equipped with the brain that dismantled the US Senate can’t see beyond his own ego and welfare and join the growing ranks of people who want decent government in an Independent Scotland!
SiU might be a bunch of clowns but British nationalism is no joke. It is the articulation of blood-and-soil nationalism, born largely out of late-Victorian degeneration theory.
link to libcom.org O. Paxton-The Anatomy of Fascism -Knopf (2004).pdf
@Bob Mack says: 31 December, 2017 at 10:38 am:
Rearrange these words to format a well known phrase or saying.;
Fighting—-Ferrets —–Sack.
I’ll give you that phrase in Lallans Scots, Bob Mack:-
“Futrets fechtin in a poke”.
It sounds much better in the Scots leid, does it not?
Jockanese Wind Talker says:
31 December, 2017 at 1:25 pm
Won’t hear a word against Commando comics @HandandShrimp says at 11:51 am
“Gott im Himmel, Donner und Blitzen, dort lernte ich Deutsch!!”
Ah yes who can forget good old Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donner, and Blitzen.
Oops Sorry JWT … wrong Donner and Blitzen there. 😀
Both alarming and interesting at the same time.
However, what was of great note Stuart, was your mentioning of ‘Scotland In Union appears to be breaking into unhappy fragments’. This seems to be following the pattern of independence groups, where some of them don’t quite see eye-to-eye with others over policy or agenda. It was probably inevitable that it would happen to other other side also! I can only assume that there are some seriously radical unionist groups out there that are alarming the more ‘moderate’ set. One can only guess what some of them are advocating (shutting down Holyrood; jailing people for perceived treasonous statements such as folk wanting to end the Union; wanting to raise anti-immigrant behaviour to new levels; endorsing hardcore Protestant beliefs as perceived in Western Belfast).
I suppose one perceived avenue to follow with this news is finding out what MP’s and MSP’s are advocating the smaller cells once they do breakaway from SiU …especially if they advocate serious anti-democracy policies. We know Ruthie was caught with Bertie Armstrong as mentioned on this site (link to wingsoverscotland.com), but as the main group splinters into smaller factions …just who will our politicians follow and endorse?
SiU’s deep throat is ofcourse Dr Scott Thinks. He’s our man on the inside. Its not for any actual reasoning, he’s just nuts.
Easy does it, Rev. You got this material because you’re trusted, straight, honest and sagacious.
There are big, big questions hanging in the air since last election, not least of which:
1. Why did up to 15 police forces in England choose not to pursue convictions of the Tory party for serious electoral finance fraud the time before last.
2. For our summer 2017 election, how on earth did the unionist parties have so much money to spend on so many leaflets that seemed to be sent in a co-ordinated way to directly cut into the snp. It almost looked like a one party of everybody else against the snp. Coordinated.
3. What can £300,000 do to our electoral process, if well spent. And how can we guard against the loss of integrity in the process when the electoral commission is at least toothless, and may be complicit in its degradation.
Softly, softly.
Happy New Year, Stu
Interesting times.
Naw its no that queen its this Queen
link to youtube.com
Well done Stu looking forward to the next episode .
Quality rev…pure quality.
Keep up the great work.
My eyes are beginning to hurt reading all the great stuff over the last week.
Power to your elbow sir and have a great new year. Same to all Wingers the world over.
I see Michael White isn’t impressed, he seems to dislike all independence supporters (almost 50% of people in Scotland according to latest poll), He refers the Rev to Jane Austen of the Heather, I presume that makes White the McGonagall of the press.
Just for a wee bit of light relief here peeps but according to Bloomberg there are about five Tory ministers sitting on seats with extremely shoogly legs. They got this information from the Sunday Times apparently. The ministers who are sitting on the shoogly seats apparently are:
Patrick McLoughlin, Conservative party chairman
Justine Greening, education secretary
Greg Clark, business secretary
Chris Grayling, transport secretary
Andrea Leadsom, leader of the House of Commons
Feartie has already lost three ministers in about six weeks and now she is allegedly looking to get rid of another FIVE! 😀
link to bloomberg.com
@heedracker
lol I would pee myself laughing if it was Dr Scott Stinks.
Still looking forward to tomorrow’s news from forwardas.one..
Thanks Stuart for all your hard work this past year.
Absolutely disgraceful that the so called media are blanking such incredibly important news, but then what happened with the ‘paradise papers’. Nothing, that was swept swiftly under the carpet.
This episode just goes to show that the rich want to keep that gravy train running from Scotland into their dirty greedy pockets. Well that is not what Scotland needs and the people know it, which is why the yoons are terrified their gravy train is in fact already derailing.
Have a brilliant Hogmanay and happy new year all.
Take care Stuart, thanks for all you do for Scotland.
Excellent ballsy journalism Stu.
And thanks due to the mole.Crazy mad mental Yoon though he may be.
All the best in advance to everyone for 2018.
He refers the Rev to Jane Austen of the Heather, I presume that makes White the McGonagall of the press.
Can someone explain that one though. Keeping in mind toryboy Mike White’s stinky old The Graun says Nic Sturgeon is a nazi etc.
Apologees if the blogger of WoS is an actual author of beautifully written novels about English social morales in the 19th C.
Oh wait, is it because
link to janeausten.co.uk
Some ridiculous hypocritical LibDem chancers. Obviously think people in Scotland can’t read reg plates. Some with irrelevant letters after their names.The annoyance white noise in the background. Police get great value from one? specialist vehicle.
ScottieDog says:
31 December, 2017 at 2:32 pm
@heedracker
lol I would pee myself laughing if it was Dr Scott Stinks.
Double agent deep throat Dr Scott Thinks is about to turn, but which way, I do not know.
Thought the Rev might like reading this short historical story not much has changed 🙂
ONE morning in December 1824, the Duke of Wellington received an unpleasant letter. ‘My Lord Duke,’ it began, ‘in Harriette Wilson’s Memoirs, which I am about to publish, are various anecdotes of Your Grace which it would be most desirable to withhold, at least such is my opinion. I have stopped the Press for the moment, but as the publication will take place next week, little delay can necessarily take place.’
The letter, signed by one Joseph Stockdale, a pornographer and scandal-monger, was a naked attempt at blackmail. The Duke was a field marshal, cabinet minister, national hero, husband and father, while Harriette Wilson was a famous London courtesan past her prime, then living in exile in Paris. Wellington was being asked to pay money to be left out of her memoirs.
His response is famous: ‘Publish and be damned’ And they did. Through 1825 the memoirs appeared by instalments, each with a dramatis personae listing the notables named in order of rank – ‘Dukes: Argyll, Beaufort, de Guiche, Leinster . . .’ and so on through earls and viscounts down to humble esquires.
link to independent.co.uk
Can you imagine none of them trusting each other? Not knowing which way to turn. The leaks. Accusing each other. The dams break. The wall comes tumbling down. On even more illegal unionist behaviour. Even more down, more gone. Even more hits the dust. Most of pycho bastards should just pay their taxes. It would be quicker, easier and cheaper. The SNP Scottish Gov is and will sort it out. To the majority satisfaction.
Caution. An old trick of the secret squirrels. Give the enemy something true and verifiable, sacrifice a few of the expendable.
Distract from what is going on elsewhere.
Don’t take the eye of the ball for a moment.
Yoongate, Poshgate, we need a name, everything else gets one,
the folk who think they’re deserving of being the ruling classes must be really really miffed by all this stuff, butlers will be suffering raised voices and tweeny maids will be getting rough treatment up at the big hooses dont you know
Toodle pip!
Dr Jim says:
31 December, 2017 at 2:58 pm
Yoongate, Poshgate, we need a name, everything else gets one,
the folk who think they’re deserving of being the ruling classes must be really really miffed by all this stuff, butlers will be suffering raised voices and tweeny maids will be getting rough treatment up at the big hooses dont you know
Toodle pip!
How’s aboot Pished Braindeid Yoongate Dr. J.? 😉
Well what can we say other than ha, ha, ha? Another clear sign that Stuart Campbell is considered to be the number ONE investigative journalist in the UK. The only journalist with the intelligence, integrity and backbone to follow this through and with a following of hundreds of thousands of people here and abroad the ideal person to disseminate such information.
I’m not religious, more spiritually inclined, but I’d say that we have God (all of the Gods, lol) on our side, as the totally corrupt Unionist networks with their ‘might is right’ attitude are now imploding.
It’s Hogmanay. Let’s all focus on the positives. Post some enlightening articles, music, facts about the independence movement / the SNP and give a mention to great Scots, past and present. Give food for thought to newcomers on here. Remind them of how wonderful Scotland is in it’s own right, not as part of this disfunctional Union.
I’ll start by thanking people like Stu, Chris and Nana for the fantastic work that they do and wish you ALL great health, wealth, inner contentment and happiness in 2018. And for anyone facing major challenges and feeling down don’t forget that with Independence your situation will surely improve. At the very least we’ll get the DWP off of your back. Like most people on here I pray for peace on earth followed by Independence for Scotland in the very near future. We may not achieve the former, but will surely achieve the latter.
…………………
Great Scots: Stuart Campbell, Nicola Sturgeon and Robert Watson-Watt.
link to en.wikipedia.org
………………….
Some facts: McCrone Report – Scotland robbed blind.
link to youtube.com
…………………
Music: With around 49% support for Independence right now just watch it rising! Vote for Independence and if you can’t do so, because you don’t live in Scotland, please support us by posting on here and / or donating to Wings and the SNP. Every penny will help combat the Unionists (mis) use of ‘dark’ money. Thank you.
link to youtube.com
@heedtracker
An anagram of Scott Arthurs is “actors truth”
Another theory beyond bitter backstabbing, or right wing putsch …
Has anyone suggest that the leaks might have been made because someone has crossed the floor to embrace independence has the best way forward? That someone may have become disillusioned when they see the unscrupulous nature and make-up of the NO side?
Or are they all shysters beyond redemption?
@galamcennalath
It’s more likely that Tarquin will be pissed off that Farquar is getting paid more for his sinecure SiU job than Tarquin is.
An anagram of Scott Arthurs is “actors truth”
Dr Scott Thinks is a fantastic ham right enough.
Main thing is, Dr Scott Thinks deep throating is not exposed.
Double agents are always tricky right enough.
I’m a huge LeCarre fan, mainly because I have no idea what’s happening in his books but it makes me feel clever, like Dr Scott Thinks is, deep throat wise.
Conan the Librarian says:
So much for commitment to the cause, eh?
Hoad on! Their cause IS dosh!
Leask et al,
This is journalism. Show your team.
Why Austen?
link to questia.com
Jane Austen’s Emma and Empire: A Postcolonial View
link to jasna.org
Goodness Stu
Your posts have been really enthralling the past few days but positively brilliant.
Great “Scoops” and why you are at the top of journalism at the moment. Total honesty and sincerity to all of us who support the Independence cause.
Happy new year to you and all us “true” Wingers.
@moonlight 2:55pm
…wise words of caution. We should always remember that Whitehall are experts in this area and have little concern regarding the sacrifice of a few pawns.
Goodness Stu this is so terrific and absorbing.
Your posts have been really enthralling the past few days and positively brilliant.
Great “Scoops” and why you are at the top of journalism at the moment. Total honesty and sincerity to all of us who support the Independence cause.
Happy New Year to you and all us “true” Wingers.
Hi Petra at 3.03pm.
You typed,
“Great Scots: Stuart Campbell, Nicola Sturgeon and Robert Watson-Watt.”
You forgot to add James Bowman Lindsay to your wee list.
link to en.wikipedia.org
In the episode of “Big Bang Theory”, broadcast on 30th November 2017, Sheldon Cooper, listing famous scientists, mentioned Einstein, Tesla and James Bowman Lindsay. He demonstrated electric light 40 years before Edison.
TheItalianJob
All the best to yourself and all those who’s ambition is uplifting, so that obviously excludes the “green ink gang”. Unsurprisingly, I don’t feel particularly challenged in not defending social inclusion, where this bunch of over-privileged a-holes are concerned.
Petra @ 3.03
What an inspiring post Petra.
Can I add my thanks to Stu for all his hard work,and wish him and all Winger’s a happy and peaceful new year.
Tonight almost every Country in the World will be singing our song…..raise a glass to the year that we can join them and sing as a Country too!
link to archive.is
Police probe security breach at Scotland in Union campaign
O.K. peeps and Stu make of this what you will. 😉
Here’s a wee “taster” 😀
The cross-party group has a reputation for lavish events and elite backers, raising around £350,000 from a £250-a-plate dinner at Edinburgh’s Prestonfield House Hotel in 2016.
With guide prices up to £12,500, auction lots on the night included stays at private safari lodges in Kenya and Botswana, French and Swiss skiing chalets, a polo festival in India, and a plethora of deer stalking, fishing and grouse shooting events in the Highlands.
There was also a £100-a-ticket raffle to win a Mini Cooper convertible, a VIP tour of the Rangers FC training facility and seats in a director’s box courtesy of Paul Murray, and a signed copy of the JK Rowling novel A Casual Vacancy.
link to archive.is
@geeo says: “Dear Coco Anderson”
I called him Robertson in one post, shows how unimpressive he is.
liz g All the world’s been singing Auld Scotia’s song since last night Big Hugs .
The mole probably is someone annoyed with their fellows, however wouldn’t it be brilliant – and just the start of the fun and games – if this was someone’s plan all along…..
As Stu says…they didn’t even contact him for a quote in that Herald story. And GA Ponsonby also notes…this is not the ‘real’ story, they’ve chosen ‘security breach’ rather than report the facts of the actual leaking. Fucking sham journalism in Scotland at its best…who ever wrote that pile of shit should…och…y’know fuck off.
Had a look at Bella Caledonia’s SIU data dump article and it led me on to this one:
Independence-Lite: the Triumph of Hope over Reality
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
What happened was that the SNP did offer indy-lite: by economic union with England and economic and political union with the EU.
This was highlighted as wishful thinking by NO and NO instead offered a pretend Devo-Max, which they then reneged on.
That article was 2011. They were right that indy-lite was the SNP’s preferred flavour.
It still is: the SNP are trying to save the Union by trying to dig the UK out of the Brexit quagmire.
Trying to prevent hard Brexit, when independists said this could be the game-changer for YES. The thing that could tip the balance in YES’ favour – and the SNP try to prevent it.
@Heed “SiU’s deep throat is of course Dr Scott Thinks.”
Well, I’ve looked at some of the blogs and twitter feeds and I think there’s a few suspects. Some are clearly ready to turn to Indy given the right circumstances, and some are just too extreme to be genuine. I think they’re riddled with plants and are already soiling themselves.
Re the tools of Union. What about Brexit?
link to libcom.org O. Paxton-The Anatomy of Fascism -Knopf (2004).pdf
Cameron Brodie says:
31 December, 2017 at 4:13 pm
Many thanks and a Guid New Year to you too.
Admire your posts and detailed replies.
Keep it up in 2018.
Agree 100% with you @Dr Jim says at 2:58 pm
“Yoongate, Poshgate, we need a name, everything else gets one”
For SiU stooshie
I’d go wi “ImperialMastergate” or “PlantationOwnergate”
Sums it up and maybe a few Soft NOs might get the message.
For MI5 revelations
I’d go wi “State Sponsored Murdergate”
‘It’ didn’t lead you onto anything you fuckwitted dumbnut, you ‘chose’ to click on a link that you have now interpreted again as somehow backing up your relentless pish about how the SNP are really against independence and are in fact undercover British state operatives who sole aim is to save the fucking union.
You are a moronic, creepy little shit bag with no redeeming features. Fuck off and gies peace.
‘Scotland in Union said it had reported the matter to the police and information watchdogs.
The names, addresses, emails, home and mobile phone numbers of hundreds of confirmed and potential donors were leaked at the weekend to pro-independence websites.’
Where did Scotland in Union get the names, addresses, emails home & mobile phone numbers of potential donors?
@Lenny Hartley says: 31 December, 2017 at 10:59 am:
“You gotta ask why the leak came to WOS and not one of the MSM puppets or even the national?”
The very good reason, (to the best of anyone’s knowledge), it wasn’t leaked to the mainstream media and/or Westminster controlled broadcasters is because they obviously would have not only tipped of SiU and not published the story but would have collectively buried the story so deep underground that it would have needed a deep sea drilling rig platform to get it back out.
The SMSM and the Westminster controlled broadcasters just do not put such, prejudicial to the Establishment, information into the public domain. The mole, or rather, the disgruntled SiU member, was astute enough to jalouse, (deduce), that fact correctly.
Think how few Scots know how William Paterson and Daniel Defoe were employees of Sir Robert Harley the English government’s spymaster or that Paterson, besides setting up the Bank of England, also set-up the disastrous, (for Scotland’s landowners/parliamentarians), to then bribe them with English gold to sell our Scottish birth right into Westminster’s hands.
The Treaty of Union was actually not only an illegal confidence trick but was also backed up by English military might. Yet Westminster propaganda has successfully hidden the provable facts from the majority of Scots since 1706/7.
The evidence is all there and can be dug out by any interested person.
Here’s a starter for anyone interested:-
link to drmarkjardine.wordpress.com
William Paterson was a London Scot who proposed a subscription scheme to raise cash to bail out the English Government that had massive national debts after fighting wars around Europe over the English Navigation Acts and these acts also had much to do with the American War Of Independence and were applied by Westminster against the pre-union Kingdom of Scotland and whose independent England’s monarch was also monarch of the independent Kingdom of Scotland.
His scheme was successful and led to the Bank of England’s set-up. Yet shortly later Paterson was in Edinburgh setting up the disastrous Darien Expedition but Paterson was friends with the English spy, Denial Defoe and both Defoe & Paterson were employed by Sir Robert Harley, the English Spymaster.
Defoe’s letters back to Harley in London are still there as evidence the Treaty of Union was engineered by Westminster.
So London Scot William Paterson worked for Westminster and set-up the subscription scheme for rich English Merchant/Marines to bail out the English Government and the government granted the private company, “The Guvnor and Company of the Bank of England”, that resulted from that bail-out scheme a Royal Charter but the Government of England has never owned the Bank of England.
The name did not mean that England owned the bank – just that it banked with the Bank of England which was not, “Nationalised”, until 1946 and there hasn’t been an elected Government of England since the last day of April 1707.
“The Bank of England”, is thus owned by all the people of the United Kingdom and that includes the Kingdom of Scotland, as Wales and Northern Ireland were/are parts of the Kingdom of England. Thus the Bank of England will be one of the United Kingdom’s assets to be shared after independence and the shares will obviously be negotiable. No doubt that Westminster will attempt to claim the BofE but haven’t got a legal leg to stand on.
Then Westminster will attempt to do as they do with oil and gas revenues – claim the share-out to be dependent upon population proportions – that too is not at all the proper share-out as it has been Westminster’s political policies that dictated what Scotland’s present population is.
I expect a newly independent Scottish Government to claim the share, if based upon population ratios should use the ratios extant on 1st May 1707.
Not only that but the Treaty of Union states that Scottish Banks can legally print their own banknotes but must lodge a special large denomination bank note in the Bank of England to the value of the notes they want to introduce into the Scottish money supply.
These special large denomination banknotes do not belong to the now new independent parliament of the Kingdom of England. They belong to the Scottish Banks and must be returned in full along with the Scottish Kingdom’s negotiated share of the assets of the Bank of England.
Unless, of course, agreement is reached that the, so called, Bank of England be a shared central bank but I believe a Scottish government would be foolish to agree to such a set-up.
These are only my own opinions but are based upon real evidence and facts. However, they may give Wingers some avenues of thought as to why I have harped so long about how important it is to differentiate between what the United Kingdom legally is and what Westminster has brainwashed us to wrongly believe it is and then again what it factually functions as.
The United Kingdom is legally a two partner United Kingdom with only two, equally sovereign, kingdom partners.
It is not a unified country but does contain four countries of which three comprise the Kingdom of England.
What it operates as is the Westminster de facto, unelected as such, parliament of the country of England that runs only England as the United Kingdom and devolves the claimed sovereign powers of the country of England to the three other countries – treating Scotland not as a equal partner kingdom but as just another annexed country that England won in war under the old English rule of law that was The Divine Right of Kings, a rule of law that Scotland abandoned in 1320.
Never mind, though, Rock will be along soon to tell you, as usual without quoting any evidence, that Scotland isn’t a sovereign kingdom and Westminster holds sovereignty over Scotland.
Great article in the Herald by Tom Gordon. With all the publicity SiU had no option but to report to the police and of course the ICO, and that gives the Herald a story it can safely publish, without even having to deep consult with their legal team.
@Ruby
Yes just read that.
Scotland in Union now faces a possible investigation and sanction by the UK Information Commissioner’s Office, which enforces the safe handling of personal data.
Wings Over Scotland, the Nationalist website run by controversial Bath-based blogger Stuart Campbell, posted redacted images of a donor spreadsheet showing dates and amounts.
link to archive.is
I thought the story was rather good lol.
Coco, you are really trying very hard to belittle our Scottish government – but it ain’t working. Just a bit pathetic.
@K1
That was a belter. Happy Hogmany and a guid New Year when it comes 🙂
What a brilliant New Year gift from Stu and now we also have Bella C. on board.
It will be interesting to see just how long our wonderful broadcast and print media can ignore this matter.
Unfortunately the chance of them using any material emanating from Stu or Bella C is minimal.
However, there is one fearless journalist with an excellent track record of poking a stick at The UK Establishment over the years.
What would be the chances of getting John Pilger on board to have a go at this. As an Aussie he obviously has no great liking for the POM Establishment and has a history of getting his material into the more left wing press and also broadcast.
Another good one is Michael Moore but unfortunately he will be preoccupied for some time with pulling the rug from under the Orange Hitler.
What an exciting end to 2017.
What do we make of this regarding SIU.
link to beta.companieshouse.gov.uk
How come WOS is described as a Nationalist website but Bella Caledonia is described as a Yes supporting website
WOS has no affiliation to the SNP if that’s what the media are implying in order to convince folk who are not SNP supporters they shouldn’t read it
Whereas Bella Caledonia is, well I don’t really know what it is
“yesindyref2 says:
31 December, 2017 at 4:46 pm
Great article in the Herald by Tom Gordon.”
I disagree, the article is good (not great) only in that the ‘topic’ has been forced into an MSM publication.
Let’s watch the Tom Gordon follow-up and deductions he makes, later, before passing final judgement. Leopards and spots…..etc
It would appear. One of the documents is a copy of the Scottish rich list. An openly available published document. These are not the donors. These are the people intended to be approach for donations. It in no way states that they responded or even were involved. The donor list has been redacted. It will no doubt be leaked soon. That is not openly available yet. They have been raising on average £100K per year. Rev Stu raises more than that. A small contribution considering the wealth of those mentioned. Miserable meany, super rich. Or just totally uninterested wealthy people being approached.
Many wealthy people support SNP/Independence and make donations. In major higher amount than this ‘organisation’ raises. Unless there are more documents available that have not been disclosed, Their actions are more of conmen on the take getting mugs to do their dirty work for them. Any criminality no doubt will be swept under the carpet as usual. Hopefully the reformed Police organisation will take a stand and start upholding the Law as they should have been doing. Before the clear out of duplicious individuals. Unionist appointed individuals.
The Herald Report as usual is nonsense. Amateur reporting. That people have come to expect. Poor hacking. Interestingly. McKenna nonsense report blames the SNP administration for contracts and remuneration taken out in the main by unionists administration. Nothing to do with the SNP. The usual poor contribution. Can’t count or read a balance sheet. Or google a few facts. Pathetic. Yet they claim to be ‘journalists’. A meaningless, ignorant rant.Nil points.
@Ruby
The legacy media have finally responded!
The Herald just can’t help showing bias …
” Wings Over Scotland, the Nationalist website “
… and SiU aren’t nationalist too?
” controversial Bath-based blogger “
… The Herald goes on to describe what SiU are and what they have been doing … nothing controversial about SiU then, lads?
I would go as far as to say the YES side don’t have any organisation quite as dodgy as SiU! Perhaps a couple of loonies in a room, here and there, but nothing in the same scale for sure.
@K1
The twister has also somehow used that article to try to support this totally incorrect assertion: “What happened was that the SNP did offer indy-lite: by economic union with England and economic and political union with the EU.”
Whereas they did nothing of the kind. Firstly in Indy Ref 1, no economic union was offered, just a currency union, secondly it’s the rest of the UK not England, and thirdly the article was written way back in 2011 on the 6th July, long before the negotiations for the S30 and Edinburgh agreement even started, and long before the Indy Ref campaign proper got on its way.
Yet again a twisted attempt to use other people’s writing to push a clearly derisory and dishonest agenda.
@K1 If you are referring to me: I never said the SNP are undercover British operatives.
There was nothing undercover or underhand. The SNP made it clear what they were offering in 2014: indy-lite.
It was the UK Govt that decided the referendum question would say: Should Scotland be an independent country?
The SNP are openly trying to prevent hard Brexit, when hard Brexit is predicted to be a nightmare for the UK.
So, it’s not underhand, it’s brazen and open.
But, aye, I believe the SNP are working for the best interests of the UK, not for independence:
1. Because they prefer devolution.
2. When indy-lite couldn’t even win in 2014 with then much higher oil prices, the SNP have since decided to entrench their position as Scotland’s ( devolution) Govt, as they don’t believe YES would win any future referendum.
So, the SNP’s priority since is working for the interests of those who might vote SNP, but won’t vote indy, such as those North-East voters who voted SNP for years but voted NO to indy in 2014.
The SNP are hanging on by their teeth as the MINORITY Scottish Govt. Those cushy jobs at Holyrood are number one priority.
It’s simply not in the SNP’s interests to get indy, when they could have guaranteed jobs for life, if they string along the independists and deliver reasonably competent devolution while blaming WM for all the bad things.
I’m not saying all SNP, but an influential core, are now like a Tartan version of the career politicians of Scottish Labour.
… and of course attempt to exploit and widen possible splits between Wings and BC, both pro-Indy websites.
Bella Caledonia has blotted it’s copy book too many times to be taken seriously. It started well and then went into oblivion. Cutting off it’s nose to spite it’s face. With constant irrational attacks on the SNP. irrelevant. Some YES supporting publication. Totally suspect.
@4:59pm Andy-B
Interesting. Ms Young prime suspect for leak?
Dinner with the Union link to wp.me
Have a great Hogmanay, Wings activists. Here’s to positive advances for Scotland’s cause of nationhood in 2018!
Awrrbest
Grousy
If WoS is a controversial blogger I assume that makes referring to most MSM as establishment hacks and the BBC as the government financed broadcaster the opposite side of the coin.
They used as a slur so the unknowing assume it publishes fake news. Standard practice so they don’t have to cover any revelation in detail, they have sown the seed with the opening remark.
You are literally full of shite. Ah refer ye tae yir2’s post ya fud.
@sassenach
Well, the article did also say “Scotland in Union now faces a possible investigation and sanction by the UK Information Commissioner’s Office” which it doesn’t need to, nor does it need to mention the prizes, nor Pearson’s part in it.
It’s possible it’s trying to appeal to the unconverted by being a little critical of our side, and if that works, good luck to it. I do the same myself, maybe they’re copying my style 🙂
If the list is a squirrel, all I can say is what a squirrel,
We will just have to comeback regularly to this site, to find out to find out if the squirrel has returned.
As you wont find it in our so called news media.
If you want a laugh, here is one. This comes up as a google search, so it presumably is a public document.
downloads.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/assets/files/pdf/our_work/nations_radio_news/scotland_in_union.pdf
“It was the UK Govt that decided the referendum question would say: Should Scotland be an independent country?”
I;m getting totally sick of lies like this, the date and calling and conduct of the referendum and the referendum question and even the inclusion of the Electoral Commission were totally in the power of the Scottish Government within the Section 30 which required a single question and gave until the 31st December 2014 for the Referendum to be held.
Saying anything else is just a total outright lie, and that can be proven from both government websites, if I could be bothered my arse doing it for a subversive liar.
Controversial prime minister Theresa May, currently governing the whole UK with no mandate.
Controversial state run propaganda outlet, the BBC.
Controversial political satire Question Time with unrepresentative panels and audiences.
Controversial newspapers regularly stoking racism and xenophobia.
Controversial evening TV programme, Reporting Scotlland, infamous for its avoidance of real news.
WoS and Stu, controversial? Certainly not by comparison!
@Bob Mack 11.37 a.m.
Have to point out BM that your paragraph on the SiU Advisory Board member isn’t quite right. I don’t want to give SiU even the smallest of openings in their squalid campaign.
Yer mon was General Officer Commanding Northern Ireland for only 2 years between 2000 and 2003. His other major post in NI was 1992-1994 when he commanded 39th Infantry Brigade. The Military Reconaissance Force was attached to the 39th at the start of the Troubles. The MRF was notorious for active involvement in killings and in its later incarnation it was known as the Forces Research Unit. The FRU Wikipedia page says this “From 1992 to 1994, loyalists were responsible for more deaths than republicans for the first time since the 1960s”. ‘Interesting’ dates but then correlation is not causation unless in reality causation underlies correlation.
As a fun little example of what’s around online ‘yer mon’ quite happily accepted 47,646.85 euros of EU farm subsidies between 1999 and 2009.
go to farmsubsidy.org for details and countless hours of aristo-trough-snuffling fun.
O/T slightly but we are talking about MSM bias. Is there any news about the takeover of The Scotsman? I can’t find anything.
I am desperate for there to be another Scottish newspaper with decent journalistic standards and I think Alex Salmond would ensure that.
Bliadhna Mhath Ur. A guid New Year to the Rev and all Wingers.
Anybody, and I mean anybody who thinks an SNP politician anywhere has a “cushy job”, really is not in touch with reality. Naughty boy Colin. Sit in the corner and try to think for a change.
@galamcennalath
Or is it someone who infiltrated them in order to do this?
Either way it couldnt happen at a worse time for no side.
I agree with Sarah’s point above. What these leaks very amusingly show is just confirming what most Yes voters already knew, how many no voters it would turn is debatable.I do think we need more mainstream media onside as I can’t see the No campaign being as poor as last time. I think we should all do our bit and everything we can to support those who are trying to give another side to the debate. Anyhow best wishes for the New Year and hopefully one year closer to independence.
You see your average No voter in Scotland I truly believe that they have no idea of who or what it is they are supporting. Sure they are many that have an emotional attachment to the concept of a United Kingdom but the great majority must be unaware that they are supporting the Establishment.
The very thing that has held them and their families back for literally centuries. It’s the Establishment who are funding SiU it’s the Establishment that won both the referendum in 2014 and the EU exit in 2016.
There are so many who need their eyes opened. Wings can show the way.
@Simon Curran “ I think we should all do our bit and everything we can to support those who are trying to give another side to the debate.”
I agree with that, as long as they do it with honesty, fairness, openness and integrity.
It certainly leaves the Tories/unionist in a poor light. A total misjudgement for those involved. They will reap a backlash. How it can be use against them. Extremely damaging.
Would like to think the Scotsman might be taken over by a pro Independence management, but I would doubt it would be allowed. Still lets hope new referendum is called for in 2018 with vote taking place in early 2019.
@Thepnr at 6pm says
“The very thing that has held them and their families back for literally centuries. It’s the Establishment who are funding SiU it’s the Establishment that won both the referendum in 2014 and the EU exit in 2016.”
Spot on Thepnr. You make many great contributions here and to the Independence cause. Guid New Year to you and your family.
Lang may yer lum reek.
Everyone have a good night and Happy New Year when it comes.
I’m looking forward to another “boring” year 😉
OT from Rev.’s twitter. Re. nurses with beards. Critical realism can add a neccessary ‘ontological stratification’ to critical feminist theory, and help to shed light on challenging moral issues and nasty creepy-crawlies in dark places.
link to citeseerx.ist.psu.edu
OT
Interestingly, from April Police Scotland will be able to buy 20% more cars for the same money.
@Thepnr
The other thing about the average NO voter is that the choice between Independence and staying in the Union is probably only 5th or even 10th on their list of priorities. The advantage of that for us is that their view can change without them even thinking about it.
@TheItalianJob
Cheers man and the same to you and yours.
We lost the first time but next time we will win it. Stay on board as I expect it’ll be a bumpy ride all the way to the line.
@jfngw 5:21
Great find. Given what we’ve learned about them recently, I think the last paragraph is hilarious.
“Conclusion
Conscious of tactics used by the Scottish National Party and their supporters, it is worth noting that there might well be a degree of orchestrated responses to this consultation with followers taking their lead from the Scottish National Party leadership.”
Just in case I “forget” later on I’ll wish everyone a happy hogmanay stay safe and look forward with every increasing vigour for what appears to be a VERY interesting year ahead … at least for those of us fighting, each in our own way, for Scottish independence!
link to plus.google.com
Yer the Bees Knees Stu. Take care and will catch up in the New Year. Wishing all, the very best in 2018 – in an Independent Scotland then or very soon after.
@yesindyref2
The Electoral Commission made the Scottish Govt change the question. Whilst the Electoral Commission is supposed to be an impartial and independent body, anybody that believes the Electoral Commission to be independent and impartial of UK Govt only needs to study their decisions into the Tory MP expenses abuses.
Just like the Edinburgh Agreement also said: “Ensuring impartiality of broadcasters
21. The governments agree that it will be important to ensure that broadcast coverage of the Referendum is impartial. Broadcasters, Ofcom and the Electoral Commission will discussthe best way to achieve this.”
Broadcast coverage impartial? Who would agree with that?
link to webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk
link to bbc.co.uk
“What will be on the ballot paper?
Voters will be asked the yes/no question: “Should Scotland be an independent country?”
The Scottish government’s original version of the question, “Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?”, was dropped after the Electoral Commission raised concerns it could lead people into voting “yes”.
Past incarnations of the referendum question have proved far more wordy.
The SNP previously said people could be asked to vote “Yes I agree” or “No I disagree” to the statement:
“The Scottish Parliament should negotiate a new settlement with the British government, based on the proposals set out in the white paper, so that Scotland becomes a sovereign and independent state.”
@Colin Alexander 5.08pm
The question in its final form was approved by the Electoral Commission and agreed by UK and Scottish governments via the Edinburgh Agreement.
A good new year to you Wingers and the very best of 2018 to all the readership.
While I was on The Herald checking out the latest on the SUI police investigation I spotted this
link to archive.is
New Star Wars trilogy ‘to be filmed in Scotland’
Have a guid Hogmanay everyone and may your favourite tipple tickel yer thrapple.
To Rev. Stu and the team, watch your back, front and sides, but know we are here supporting you. It is in truth not for Glory nor Riches. . .
Ps, anyone doing a ‘loony dook’ the morra’? We want pics!.
yesindyref2 says:
31 December, 2017 at 4:33 pm
@Heed “SiU’s deep throat is of course Dr Scott Thinks.”
Well, I’ve looked at some of the blogs and twitter feeds and I think there’s a few suspects
Its him. Dr No is already infiltrating SLabour quite deeply too.
Code name Dr No, his mission, should he choose to accept it, infiltrate deep in to hard core zoomer yoon culture in their Scotland region, email out all the most private stuff imaginable to everyone and their cat.
link to youtube.com
this message will self destruct in 10…
Dr Scott Think also likes to complain very publicly about how terrible Scots education is but considering he spends his every waking moment getting up to all kinds of cunning stunts to bring down Scottish democracy, my actual query really is, how easy is it to get a job as a Heriot Watt lecturer?
Asking for several other slackers, looking for cushty Heriot Watt doss.
“The Electoral Commission made the Scottish Govt change the question”
NO, they did not. The Electoral Commission have no mandate to do anything, apart from advise. The decision and format of the question were totally up to the Scottish Government. They could have kept to the original, or changed to something totally different.
Stop making false assertions, look up the ScotGov website.
Yesindyref2
You picked me up wrong: The SNP’s indy-lite was currency union with England and it’s conquests or rUK . The economic union and political union was with the EU.
Clearly, you aren’t independent if in a currency union with a much larger partner and a tiddler in the EU.
Clearly, you aren’t independent if in a currency union with a much larger partner and a tiddler in the EU.
Scotland is one of the EU biggest member states, in waiting, a lot bigger than say Benelux. Its just that Scotland’s run by its neighbour England, who have spat feathers since, lets say the dawn of the Snatcher Thatcher era, at just the thought of Scotland developing as an economic industrial powerhouse, which ofcourse Scotland is more than capable of, if even the fable BetterTogether devo max promise ever materialised.
But, that would never do would it Colin A.
Its England England all the way, in their teamGB zone. For how much longer, I do not know.
Biggest creep out in this end of yoon era Colin A? the fact that there people like you desperately trying to block Scotland’s development, free from our neighbour’s control.
@Heed “how easy is it to get a job as a Heriot Watt lecturer?”
I really wouldn’t like to comment, I knew someone who lectured there.
Glad I live in Scotland!
OT. There were 425 mass shooting in the US in 2017. Defined as four or more people shot in a single outburst of violence. ( WoS Twitter)
Proportionally, that would be seven in Scotland. Imagine seven mass shootings in one year!
Mental! Mad as a box of frogs!
Happy Hogmanay everyone.
I’m the designated babysitter this evening so I will be spending a lot of time reading Wings articles & chatting with anyone who might be around.
I’m looking forward to finding out what is going to be revealed at midnight.
I’ll need to check back to find the link.
I find Hogmanay a wee bit creepy so I’m happy to babysit.
I’ve been to Princes Street at Hogmanay and also to Trafalgar Square and you couldn’t pay me to go there again.
Before Scotland goes nuts at ‘The Bells’ may I just wish each and every Winger a happy and prosperous New Year.
I look forward to 2018 with renewed faith in a soon to be independent Scotland and, has the Rev not just given us a great end to 2017?
The Unionist facade is cracking, they have run out of lies to tell.
Best wishes to all.
Isn’t it interesting that the resident troll chooses tonight and this thread to start his FUCKING nonsense?
He’s NOT interested in the cause that we are. Not interested in the subject matter, the best scoop for a very long time for our side.
You make me sick, Coco. Do one.
yesindyref2 says:
31 December, 2017 at 7:34 pm
@Heed “how easy is it to get a job as a Heriot Watt lecturer?”
I really wouldn’t like to comment, I knew someone who lectured there
There’s not such a thing as professional integrity now, call it the Carmichael Doctrine, where you can lie through your teeth all the time, with your politic stuff, like Councilor Dr Scott Thinks does, yet its not a crime and ofcourse you get to keep your public sector job.
But like my Slovene girlfriend at Glesga uni, Dr Scott Thinks is clearly given all the time he needs to get stuck in to his vote NO, SNP bad politics.
All that is fine, its up to their uni employers to decide whether or not either my Slovene girlfriend and Dr Scott Thinks are actually doing what they are paid to do.
But they dont get to tear strips off of Scots education, when they’re both Scots educators, part time, full time, who knows.
frogesque says:
31 December, 2017 at 7:16 pm
Have a guid Hogmanay everyone and may your favourite tipple tickel yer thrapple.
Ruby replies
You too frogesque.
tut! I did type a post wishing everyone a Happy Hogmanay but it seems to have disappeared.
I was aslo informing everyone they would have the pleasure of my company this evening here on Wings as I am the designated babysitter.
Valerie @ 7-44pm
Absolutely spot on, Coco is doing his best (which, let’s face it isn’t much!) to disrupt what is a fantastic thread.
Coco, do one from me as well.
A wee add on to my previous post.
Branson runs a train set, does he own the land or shares where his train set runs? if so probably gets shit loads of pennies for said train set.
Rowling! a wee train set up north to Hogworts? you get the drift. A wee message to the Yoon Trolls.
Try and take Stu down? there’s 100s of thousands of us ready to carry on the message.
Can you take down 100s of thousands? NAW.
Yoons get back in your box. You f*ck wi wan, ye f*ck wi us all. ( ye better git mair baddies) ( you will NEVER have enough)
Yer teas oot.
Oh Aye, Happy New Year. Roll on 2018.
The futures bright, the futures Indy Scotland.
Parasites shut the gate at the border.
Mr and Mrs Axe, Have a good one.
Happy New year Stu and all wingers, it’s been an interesting end to a hard year.
You all stay safe I think next year will be very interesting.
The Smooth
Sheesh, it can’t even understand what it wrote itself, and I quote: “What happened was that the SNP did offer indy-lite: by economic union with England and economic and political union with the EU.” (my bold)
and the second part is wrong as well, as is the new stupid assertion. There are 18 EU-28 countries who are part of the eurozone, and still totally independent.
I think most of us had our fill of this sort of incorrect argument used by Unionists in Indy Ref 1, some of them still seem to be going on about Indy Ref 1.
Nevermind, it’ll soon be out with the old, and in with the new. Can’t wait.
Gary45%….
You just made me realise that as I’m from Falkirk, part of our motto it Touch ane, Touch a’
I think it also applies to the true wingers on this site.
Stu, have a great New Year, there are thousands of us watching your back.
Valerie says:
31 December, 2017 at 7:44 pm
Isn’t it interesting that the resident troll chooses tonight and this thread to start his FUCKING nonsense?
But he is a unionist campaigner and they are all just another weird part of Scottish life. There’s no actual reason why btl WoS should be a kind of sanitised safe zone from them.
Its when they dont come a creeping about online like Colin A, either Scotland’s voted YES or we have actually all been jailed, Catalan style:D
Happy New Year Wings over Scotland. Thanks very much for another amazing year of great writing and hope, over ALL the red and blue tory world of UKOK hackdom in Scotland and their endlessly bizarro bullshit.
Have a great one everyone WoS btl, hope you’re all off to get totally shitfaced for Scotland, like me.
See you all in 2018, probably the penultimate year, of UKOK rule in Scotland, no, not probably, WILL be!
CHEERS everyone!
To Stu and all the Wingers have great new year. To all the unionists have great new year as well, hopefully you’ll see the light in 2018, and come to realise independence is the best way forward for Scotland.
Happy New Year to us all.
Many thanks Stu.
And some condolences to those stalwarts of 77 bgd. Enjoy your shift.
I have retrieved a bottle of 18 year old Laphraoig at 48% from my cellars.
The year of Grace 2018 is going to be really good.
Have a fantastic bells folks and here is to a better year next year. (2017 was a bit weird if truth be told.)
Ruby link to facebook.com Martin Keating ‘s
Some excellent articles in the Sunday Herald today. The front page alone should make people sit up and take stock or will they just sit back and let this happen? What of the SiU punters (support privatisation – money no problem), Ruth Davidson’s Tories and Leonard’s Labourites? Still hellbent on doing their London masters / mistresses bid by dragging Scotland out of the EU?
In bold: ‘National Emergency. Brexit will leave Scottish NHS on Deathbed. Top medics and Scottish Government in stark warning immigration restrictions wlll decimate our Health Service.’
The article goes on to highlight ‘Brexit poses biggest threat to Scotland’s NHS.’
‘Scotland’s NHS is facing ruin because of Brexit. The stark warning comes from the Scottish Government’s Health Secretary Shona Robinson, as well as the head of the British Medical Association (BMA) in Scotland and the Scottish leader of the Royal College of Nursing (RCN).’
And so it goes on …….
O/T
Could some of the older Wingers remember some of the Scottish customs from Hogmanay,
apart from getting pished oot yer heed ken,
esp Mr Peffers, who i think is over 120 years old, must have some memories from his puckie row thing,
am reading (or working through it) The Golden Bough by Scots author James Frazer and am interested in Scotland`s sadly dying ancient traditions.
Yesindyref2
That was a genuine mistake in writing the comment. I meant to write currency union with England.
As for being independent whilst in the EU or especially the Eurozone. Nonsense. Did you miss the whole EU-ref debate?
Semi-independent at best. Ultimately sovereign, aye. But independent, no.
Anyway, this is arguing the toss, that is just a distraction. Which is not useful.
@Ruby “as I am the designated babysitter”
What, all of us? Thanks, and respect!
There’s at least one who needs changing right now …
What, Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Spain aren’t independent countries, who knew!
“Anyway, this is arguing the toss, that is just a distraction”
or politely rephrased: “this is the toss arguing the distraction”.
Is it really true that the Scotland In Union Green ink brigade get £50 for every letter printed. If so no wonder they have blown all their money on the 5000 anti SNP / Scottish independence letters.
yesindyref2 says:
31 December, 2017 at 8:19 pm
@Ruby “as I am the designated babysitter”
What, all of us? Thanks, and respect!
There’s at least one who needs changing right now …
Ruby replies
He’ll have to wait until his Mummy comes home. I don’t do big shitty nappies!
Send him to his room!
I see that Coco the Unionist Clown is winning. Getting us all to respond to him / her. Please ignore folks.
…………………..
@ Scot at 8:17pm …… “Scotland’s ancient traditions.”
Well I’ve got my coal at the ready Scot and a bottle (or three). Prepared for first footing all neighbours on the way downhill to the ultimate ‘big party’ destination. If I ever make it, lol.
Off to shower and get the glad rags on. See you all in 2018 X
The resident troll is an arguing tosser and a distraction, and he is defo not useful.
Happy Hogmany and a guid new year tae ane in awe when it comes lets hope 2018 is the year we finally unchain the unicorn
Graeme
COLIN! go to your room.
You are being a scurvy elephant!
I hope you are going to write to everyone in the list asking them to contribute to a wings over the union campaign
Nice to get contributions from them
@Scot Finlayson.
Coal, drink, food ,all for first footing. Ginger cordial( which I think you can still get from the coop in essence form) and shortbread for the bairns, and an assortment of alcohol for the grown ups.
Every party had a one singer one song rule unless encouraged to join in by the singer on the floor. Every relative had their usual song and was always complimented when finished.
First foot was preferably tall, male and good looking.
Happy days indeed.
@Petra
You’re right, I know. Not sure it’s totally off-topic though, considering the title of this article …
@ Sinky
I don’t think so; there was one publication where a “star letter” got £50, but that was in the form of a voucher for Barrhead Travel, who were described as “sponsoring” the prize.
Since it may well be that BT doesn’t sell anything that costs less than £50, the lucky winner would be obliged to pay out in order to get a discount.
That’s how I interpreted it, anyway. Certainly I’ve never received a single penny for a reasonable number of letters published in lots of different papers over several decades. Maybe they didn’t have sufficient “star quality”.
When we ex pupils went to first foot the School Rector he had a bottle of whisky opened and the cork lost. The tradition was to drink it all for New Year. Bad luck to recork !
All the best
What a cracking read this place has been this past few days, even more so than usual and, as always, BTL too. Thanks folks.
On the box the place to be tonight will be the Alba Ceilidh, always brilliant, and there’s some cracking music on the same channel beforehand. So almost time to moisten the vocal chords for the singalong bits and get the dancing pumps on.
But whit’ll it be, whit’ll it be, whit’ll it be? There’s Scottish craft beers in the fridge, a range of artisan gins, and some fine drams. Decisions, decisions.
While I ponder that, and I may drop by later with the odd tasting note, have a great time one and all; onwards into the monumental year that 2018 promises to be be, now that we can put that dead quite 2017 behind us…
All the very Best to each and every one of you lads and lassies,
ye’ve all been great in wot has been a very boring year(Aye right Rev).
2018 is Oor year.
MON EH SCOTLAND
Nope, no first footin’ for me tonight. Most of the organized outdoor stuff has been scratched anyway.
Wind whistling along at 15 klicks, minus 22C on the old cabin wall thermometer and the sun’s still shining.
Translated it means the wind chill is somewhere south of minus 30. Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey.
But I’ve got the Jets at the Oilers at 5 and a couple of tickets in the lower bowl.
That’ll do.
Happy New Year from Alberta y’all!
I think I’ve been banned!
@Ruby, I am not preventing anyone from commenting on SIU.
It’s interesting, and a riddy for SIU, but they were already splintering and in-fighting. It’s not a game-changer in my opinion. Good entertainment though and a good read. Whether more information comes out that could be a game changer remains to be seen. Especially, when it seems it came about via backstabbing.
I always try to respect the rules that say, no off topic should be put until a dozen or so posts have been made. (yesindyref2, don’t bother picking fault if that’s not an exact quote).
At the end of the day, we HOPEFULLY want the same goal and that’s indy.
Right, I’ll give the benefit of the doubt about the SNP regarding their Brexit intervention for Soft Brexit. I’ll leave to one side that they have no mandate or any other authority to do that:
I’m told that Soft Brexit would make things easier for Scotland to transition to either a) indy EFTA /EEA or b) EU membership. So it’s good for indy.
That does make sense, so far. If Scotland was already meeting all conditions, clearly little or no changes would be needed to meet the criteria of membership of EEA or EU. IF people voted for indy.
But here’s my problem:
Why would anyone vote for a (hopefully) smoother transition to indy Scotland Single Market access when the UK would already offer Single Market access?
I think we already have all the patriot and heart over wallet votes.
The ones that need to come to YES are the financial argument votes.
If UK remained in the Single Market, which is the SNP desire, where is the economic case for independence, regarding Brexit being a game changer?
It would be Project Fear 2014 over again.
Scotland would be out the Single Market if the rUK retains the membership. UK guarantees EU Single Market access. Scotland would be out of their two largest markets, economic suicide.
(That’s not my view, but the No argument from 2014).
On purely financial terms it’s a bird in the hand v a bird in the bush. A dead cert v an uncertainty. Business always goes for stability and certainty and that’s where the propaganda would favour. That would be the UK.
So, even though, aye Scotland as part of the UK remaining in the Single Market would make transition to EEA /EU theoretically much easier, it’s less likely we’d get the chance, cos people would still vote NO: as the UK’s Single Market access would already be a fact, not a policy or aim or hope for an indy Scotland.
Towards the end of 2014 I was in the Hamilton Central Library to use a computer. I tried to log on to Wings, but received a massage that the site was blocked. I logged on to Scotland in Union without any problems.
I made an official complaint about the blockage of Wings, while SiU was available. After some time I received notification from the Library that my complaint was being looked into. I didn’t hear any more from the Library. I returned to Canada and did not pursue the matter any further except to alert Wings to that happening.
I wonder if anyone else has tried to log on to Wings on a Public Library computer, and what the result was?
I did not receive a massage. I received a message. Sorry about the poor proof reading!
May I and my family wish a Happy New Year to my friends in England, and my friends in Scotland.
And I hope that 2018 brings a more hopeful and peaceful world to those who put faith, hope and humanity before death and destruction.
I have faith in my country and our people to remove ourselves finally from Westminster dishonesty and dishonour.
And I have faith in all of you.
Happy New Year , Alba.
I’ve decided on Havana rum this year, in recognition of the “Cubist revolution” (Count Arthur Strong).
So wishing all WoS contributors, and especially the Cybernat Controller, a very happy and prosperous New Year.
Hope 2018 will be as boring and tedious as 2017 turned out to be.
link to scottishleftreview.org
An article in Scottish Left Review by Craig Lundie (secretary of SNP Trade Union Group ).
The criticisms of Labour are good, then the old argument put forward (it’s all WM’s fault the SNP can’t make progressive changes). The silly bit is when he gets to the “progressive alliance” at WM suggestion. How did that go each time that’s been suggested?
Bookmark it, as a future issue has Sillars and Leonard in it, according to the Herald.
Habib Steele 9.17. Thanks im sure Wingers will follow up on your info , no doubt its a labour/con council censorship in south lanarkshire I will certainly be checking nth Lanarkshire in Airdrie this week .
I think perhaps Stuart Campbell should change his name by deed poll to Controversial Blogger Stuart Campbell, then the journos would have to write “Controversial blogger Controversial Blogger Stuart Campbell …”. That would fry their brains out.
Divide and rule is the hallmark of the Brittish Empire. Well used to keep the colonies in order.
Recipe: pretend you support the downtrodden colonies but then rubbish the only viable leadership likely to end the absurd divine right rule of the British Empire.
Luckily most people ,even readers of the likes of the Mail and P and J recognise that the Unionist letter writers have overcooked their goose!
Happy New Year to you all!
There was a tradition where I was brought up that started in school and it was that anyone who was a nuisance for no reason or a wee clipe or as you grew up became the first one to ruin somebodys Mammys carpet at Hogmanay by Ralphin on it got “Threw ootside” even if it wiz puir freezin
There was always that wee brat round your street girl or boy we’ve all had dealings with them they’d needle a fight between two people if it took them a nicht
Now we all know what happened to those people they became Yoon clipes and wee brats who keep trying to anger people on Wings over Scotland, probably online is the only place ye cannae throw the wee shites oot yer hoose even when they know they’re no waantit
And that’s whit maks them the wee cowardly shites they are
We all know collie dugs are clever – but take a look at this sledging collie from Stu’s twitter. A downhill tobogganing collie:
link to twitter.com
Is anyone else having a problem posting or is it just me?
If there are any bampots that think I’m in any way preventing indy by making comments on here, you deceive yourselves by the flattery of your egos.
Aye, some politicians might read Stu’s articles, but if you think politicians are influenced by ANY of us in below the line btl comments, Think again.
No offence to Stu, but the SNP wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole, and he’s the top man, so if you imagine your btl chatter is playing a crucial role in achieving indy, then you are kidding yourself.
I don’t mean that as a discouragement. But a reality check. That’s also an invitation for more people to write their contributions. You are entitled to put your comments too, don’t worry about the self-righteous bully brigade on here; the know it alls. There are many others who are not like that.
Accept btl for what it is, a mixture of comments, banter, argument, discussion and sharing of opinions etc. So don’t be afraid to comment.
The more the merrier, so it’s not me and the same faces again and again. So, Wings btl can be energised and invigorated with fresh blood.
Posting on Wings hasn’t been much fun.
yesindyref2 @ 20:22:
Har, har, har! My quote of the day. Thanks for that one. (Though K1 came close in sheer raw effectiveness, as is often the case.)
Thanks to all of you for your many lung-wrenching quips and jibes over the past “uneventful” year. (If Stu can forgive this gentle dig.)
Here’s to a Big One in 2018. Bless you all, writers and readers alike!
I see we’re getting the same Hogmananny pish from the Bbc Big Night Out ZZZZ life was hard then, not nostalgic fek of Craig Stirling ( who he ).
Wings will always have fresh blood. The symbol of wings is the lion with wings. If you know your Christian symbolism you will realise that this is the sign of St Mark the evangelist
That is eminently suitable for the Rev Stu, a man who spreads the word of freedom and truth,often to non believers and those who ridicule everything he does.
From small beginnings he has grown and thrived. Though not all comment, his fundraisers should tell you that many support him.
As for the SNP not following or supporting him, I suggest you check his twitter feed time line.
I pity you for the ill natured and Ill informed person you are friend. Come in out of the cold of constant negativity. Open your mind to other possibilities further than your limited experience.
Happy New Year
@ Ruby – I’e not had any problem posting although the last post took a wee while to appear. You need to refresh every so often to get the latest post.
There is no payment either to or from WOS for posting, it’s free even for SIU but of course if you’re not a supporter of Independence one would think you’d have the manners not to
Unlike our resident cowardly wee shite although if there’s a nuclear war he’ll be gratified to know like cockroaches he has a chance of still being alive amongst his own kind
Ruby,
Get y’self over to off-topic (and bring the babies we’re a bit short of cushions to sit on).
Ruby,
… and some soup?
The SNP has gone backward (fewer MSPs (accepting constituency vote increased 1%), MSPs 6 less than previously.
MPs 23 less, including their top man AS, and almost half a million votes lost and still the dreamers dream that the indy campaign is moving forward, when all the eggs have gone into the SNP basket.
Any indy campaign will be the SNP show. Not Stu,s, not yours,or mine, it will be the SNP’s YES campaign – if it happens at all. ( What do we do when the UK ignores or says no to an S30 request?)
In 2018, the SNP need to up their game and change their game.
2017 has been an interesting year of ups and downs. We are ending it on a high. Highs when the Scot Parl voted for indyref and the FM wrote to the PM.
A low when the SNP made a pigs ear of the GE. Another when the UK Govt ignored the letter.
Let’s hope 2018 will be a good year for Scotland and her people, when it comes. It’s gonnae be an interesting one, that’s for sure.
@ Capella
Havana Club is good, one of the few rums I’ve enjoyed enough to drink rather than cook with.
Tonight, however, I shall stick to malt whisky, for wishing everyone here a productive 2018.
Happy New Year
The British Empire recipe again and again.Kid on you support Independence but shaft the only viable political party,the SNP.which can deliver.
We see through your wee plan .
‘Star letter’ The paper chooses the ‘best’ letter. (Joke). The firm who sponsors cough up the £50 payout. Unlikely to be vouchers. Cheque? Or transfer. To try and increase communications from readers. Best deal is to boycott the lot of them. £50 to ruin your place of residence. They lose more than £50 with a boycott. Less revenues from adverts and internet traffic.
Herald is full of internet adverts commissioned on the basis of internet traffic. Popping up all over the place really annoying. Unreadable. That is where they get their revenues stream. Less traffic less revenues.They use the number of internet hits as the basis to increase advert customers – revenues. PR. Marketing department. A boycott decreases their revenues. Already struggling. Firms will not cough up based on lower internet traffic/hits on the site. Not profitable to shell out for fewer hits or traffic. Not worth it. Also less readership less opportunity for customers to place ads. Their revenues stream lowers.
Ronnie, leave the Burd alone and get yersel’ over to Alba.
and Colin, away you and play wi’ yer pals.
Hi Ruby,
have you found the link to Martin Keatings announcement in an hour?
When I look up ‘forwardasone’ I’m getting a page saying new website coming soon? – Maybe that’s part of the surprise?
I’ll keep trying…
Happy New Year everyone, I’ve got my mini bottle of Catalan cava ready to toast Stu and Independence for all those who are like-minded, be they in Scotland or Catalalonia.
In fact, here’s tae Scotalonia and Catland!!! Slainte!
Feck sake Rev Stu. A New Year wish. Get rid of the boring annoying troll cluttering up the website. Know you are extremely busy but block the incessant,obsessive troll. Increasingly posting nonsense. Put an end to it, Trying to damage the website. Put it to rest.
All the best for a fruitful and happy new year
SB
Oh fur fuck’s sake you tiny arrogant jumped up wanksocket…no one, no one, gives a shite about whatever fantasy pish you think you are contributing on here…no one is scared to post, no one is thinking ‘Oh that dumbnut fur a brain coco the prickster has just spoken fur me’.
You are beyond deluded if you believe for a second that this forum has no influence on our movement, has no influence of the progression of our aims, has no affect on the ordinary people of Scotland who view and share this site daily. And by proxy of course influences this polity in terms of who they fucking vote for.
You are a proven lying obfuscating twisted shyster with an unconscionable sneaky shit divisive agenda with no care for anyone but yourself. Your number was called months ago, it just took a few people a bit longer to realise what a slithering little worm you are…more credit to them for having that kind of compassion…and a testament to your ugly little self serving con that they didn’t see it right away.
Now once and for all…go take a flying fuck tae yersel’ ya patronising little fuckwit.
Colin Alexander
Nations that are members of the United Nations, have all lent a portion of their sovereignty to a trans-national, globalist, new-world-order, the evil feckers.
Colin, your patter’s mince.
@Colin Alexander says: 31 December, 2017 at 8:18 pm:
“As for being independent whilst in the EU or especially the Eurozone. Nonsense. Did you miss the whole EU-ref debate?
Semi-independent at best. Ultimately sovereign, aye. But independent, no.”
You do comment some utter pish Colin.
Quite obviously you have little idea how the EU works.
Not only is the EU parliament democratic but it works by consensus. That means that not only are all, and every, EU parliamentary decision passed by a majority but each and every member state has a veto. Thus, even if a majority of MEPs pass a particular motion, a member state cannot accept the decision they simply veto it and it fails.
This, of course, rarely happens because any member state can, and they quite often do just ignore the EU decision. For example a particular EU directive states that all member states must, when they qualify, adopt the Euro.
Yet nine of the 28 countries (Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Sweden, and the United Kingdom) are EU members but do not use the euro.
Before joining the eurozone, a state must spend two years in the European Exchange Rate Mechanism but Sweden is a founder member state and does not use the Euro.
Furthermore, Andorra, Monaco, San Marino, and Vatican City have formal agreements with the EU to use the euro as their official currency and issue their own coins. Kosovo and Montenegro have adopted the euro unilaterally, but these countries do not officially form part of the eurozone and do not have representation in the European Central Bank (ECB) or in the Eurogroup.
BTW: There are NO EU rules, laws or legal mechanisms that enable the EU to throw any member state out of the EU. Thus all that is required for the country, or the Kingdom of Scotland, to remain in the EU even if they cannot break out of the Treaty of Union that only has two member Kingdoms is for the EU parliament to rule that the UK is a bipartite Kingdom and one part of it has voted not to leave.
In such a case it highlights the fact that the Treaty of Union that begat the United Kingdom has only two partner kingdoms and thus the case of Wales and N.I. are in no way like that of Scotland for Wales has been an integral part of the Kingdom of England since The Statute or Rhuddlan and all Ireland has been part of the Kingdom of England since the Irish, “Crown of Ireland Act”, was passed.
Scotland has never been part of the Kingdom of England and Westminster is not the legally elected parliament of England. It became the new parliament of the two partner United Kingdom on the first day of May 1707 and there has been no legally elected parliament of England ever since.
You are thus, Colin, a propagator of Westminster pure pish & propaganda.
It’s funny to think Sydney etc are roasting hot at New Year. Nice to Skype relatives. Courtesy of the internet. Like the firework displays. Worldwide.
Meg merrilees says:
31 December, 2017 at 11:06 pm
Hi Ruby,
have you found the link to Martin Keatings announcement in an hour?
Ruby replies
This looks promising
link to facebook.com
Stu, that’s some editing! How did Alba become Caesar?
From the heart of the “evil” EU where the new year 2018 is up and running a very happy new year to the man the yoonionists hate most – Rev. Stu and his merry band of Wossers – all the very best wishes from me. 🙂
link to facebook.com
That’s weird!
The page I have open with the above link has an announcement above the Happy Birthday Alex Salmond.
It says
Today at 11.31pm Forward as One plans to go live.
keep checking.
Looking forward to the New Year. Lets Break the Union once and for all. All the best Folks.
Don’t say I’m no guid to youse: I’m logging off.
I’ll leave youse to your thoughts, your memories of the past and hopes for the future.
Just remember: just cos some people voted No last time, disnae make them a Unionist, they are a potential Yes that made a mistake.
@Ken500 11:15pm
It wasn’t very warm here on Hogmanay only 24C. Bit warmer today though. Glad you enjoyed our fireworks display, as I am greatly enjoying the SiU ones. Looking forward to MartinKeatings midnight music.
All the best to Wingers for 2018.
link to forwardas.one
Not many laughs on the BBC “excuse to no laugh “ shit show when trying to take the piss out of Nichola and Alex….BBC are wankers!!!!
NOTHING about Ruth the mammoth mooth that I seen..
Happy new year to all wingers and theirs ? “Freedom soon” . Thanks Rev for everything.
Aye it’s Alex Salmond’s birthday today. 🙂
Anyhoo! Happy New Year all Wingers and thank you Stu for all your dedicated work and effort to get the truth out there.
Best blog on the internet…on both sides of the wall.
A Happy New Year to all the posters and readers of Wings over Scotland and especially the Rev.
Only An Excuse spoilt by the anti-SNP sketches.
They just cannot help themselves can then!
Happy New Year all.
@ Ken500
The image I saw of a letters page with a prize “sponsored by Barrhead Travel” explicitly stated lower down the page that the prize was a £50 voucher.
It was one of a series of tweets of images of letters from the Green Ink brigade. I don’t have a twitter account and cannot remember who tweeted it. So I won’t be able to find it to show you, probably.
Ot
Re. Auld Lang syne. What gets up my nose are those who continually add “for the SAKE o’ all lang syne”, especially TV programes.
Good N’eer til he all.
@Colin Alexander says:31 December, 2017 at 10:15 pm:
“No offence to Stu, but the SNP wouldn’t touch him with a barge pole, and he’s the top man, so if you imagine your btl chatter is playing a crucial role in achieving indy, then you are kidding yourself.”
You do talk a right load of pish, Colin, for a start if the commenter here on Wings is also a member of the SNP then they have exactly the same number of votes upon and SNP policy as does Nicola Sturgeon.
Matter of fact Nicola Sturgeon cannot make SNP party policy because that can only be done by a vote at national conference. You may not be aware of it but most of the views stated here on Wings by SNP members are party policy. I’m not sure about every commenting SNP member but if I state my own opinion a say as much. If it is party policy I state it as party policy.
So whether you like it or not the views expressed on such as Wings are indeed noted by the party – as are the views of the electorate – had you not noticed that Nicola always calls for a mandate on important issues before taking any actions.
Even if the elected to government SNP members wanted to change party policies they would have to do so by moving a motion at their local branch and getting it seconded. It would thus be subject to both opposing motions and amendments just to clear the branch and go on to the Constituency Association. The way it would clear the branch is by being debated and voted upon and the decision being a majority on the members present.
Relatives in Sydney. Some were born there. Even had a history of the Sydney Harbour Bridge. Designed in Scotland. Base built by stonemasons from Italy and Aberdeen. Fascinating. The Rubislaw Quarry (Granite) is being developed as a tourist attraction. One of the deepest quarries in Europe? An exhibition centre will include a mention of the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the stonemason some of whom worked there, who emigrated to work on the Bridge. Great stories. Hard job especially in those days. Less machinery, power tools etc.
Family been in touch tonight. Visited Scotland/UK in August. Visited Sydney some time ago, Wonderful City absolutely spectacular. The City and the proximity of the ocean.
They have been coming back and forwards for years, Seriously about six times. They just can’t decided where to settle. The power of the internet is brilliant. Especially at this time of year. Helps to keep contact. Hope to make another visit. If it is possible.
Happy New Year.
Hope it is as exciting as 2017 turned out to be.
Another year almost gone, quite an eventful one too and I’m sure there’s more to come that can only benefit the Independence cause.
A happy New Year to you Rev and to all the btl commentators that make this site a wonderful place to visit and to be educated. Special shout out for Nana her contribution is invaluable.
I’ll leave you with a wee tune, don’t start greeting before the bells 🙂
A guid new year tae yin an’ a’
Onwards and upwards in 2018.
Happy Hogmanay and a guid New a Year when it comes.
The oldest dated cast bell in Europe will be rung in Lanark again at midnight on Ne’er Day.
May it ring in your hearts to herald in an Independent Scotland!
It’s been a great year for the Indy movement. Westminster busy showing everyone just how useless and incompetent they are and the Beeb going totally OTT agin us.
Some very unlikely people are now thinking Indy is now essential.
Keep at it folks, it’s coming.
@ Ken500
Amazingly, I found it almost immediately:
link to twitter.com
I hope that’s indicative of my luck for next year!
A Happy New Year to you cearc and crazycat. Two wonderful ladies 🙂
Happy New year to all wingers
Happy New Year Stu and all Wingers, let’s hope 2018’s a good one, with plenty of cheer.
Upwards and onward to an indy Scotland. 🙂
x
Happy new year Everyone!
Happy New Year everyone.
May the coming year be a good one.
To all the friends I have never met. Happy New Year.
Bliadhna Mhath Ùr, gu mo charaidean uile, tha saorsa a ‘tighinn. ( Happy New Year , to all my friends,freedom is coming)
Happy New Year to all of you wonderful people X
Happy new year everybody
Rev.stu & all you deranged separatists, I wish us all the bestest new year everer & I’m sure it will be liberating for us all. HNY2U all
Happy new year and ah the best fir 2018 wingers 🙂
Happy New Year to all.
Remember, if everyone one of us convince just one person – iScot will win the day.
In that case the voucher is not worth the price printed on it. Just a worthless publicity stunt. Another con. A useless voucher. Sure SIU and other mugs will be delighted with a useless piece of paper. They can be spotted miles away. Letters pages. Yet want secrecy. Half daft or what. They have there details plaster all over the Press. In fact in certain cases they really appear to need some professional help for obsessive behaviour.
Don’t read the paper. Never bother. On other ‘star’ letter awards. The ‘award’ joke can be cash or goods (whisky) in some cases.
Happy New Year. Exciting times. Fireworks off.
Please God Scotland let it be this year. Freeeeedom.
Happy Hogmanay to you and yours fellow WoSsers and may 2018 be a happy, healthy and prosperous one.
Let’s keep the BritNats on the run 🙂
Happy New Year all, but here’s the news, SiU have hired 2.5 million drones to first-foot every household in Scotland, with an image of a smiling Gordon Brown so as to take on the character of Project Fear.
I’ve managed to hack the code and they’re all on their way to Colin as we speak, but I can only hold them on Warp 10 for a few minutes Capn, the code’s about to blow. So all YESsers quick and first-foot everyone around you and give them a YES character to break the thrall.
Only an Excuse was very bitter.. Don’t let it spoil your New Year.
Update from Forward As One
link to facebook.com
Happy New Year everyone!
Happy new year everybody.
Make your New Year resolution to tell us wingers your tips to convert even one person to YES.
Ah Guid Naerday tae Ain an Aw Wingers . ( usual suspects YAHBOO )
Mahogany!
Haha plenty of wit. W’it.
Site nearly crashed at the bells. No the evil psycho brats. Trying to bring it down. Just the increased traffic. Trying to wish happy New Year. Plenty of good tunes. Some have crashed out.
Happy New Year to Rev. Stu and all true Wingers, I wish you all a Happy Prosperous and Peaceful New Year.
Just Say YES!
How appropriate tribute to Alex Salmond. Great Man. Thanks for all he has done and continues to do. Local Hero. Plus one Nicola. One guid caring quine. .
@Ken500
Yeah, my first try I was told I got the answer wrong and was spam. Second time lucky!
Oh wait, “Second time lucky”.
Sounds like an omen …
Auld Lang Syne with Mairi Campbell and Dave Francis plus Gaelic verse.
Happy New Year everybody.
link to youtube.com
I thought only an excuse was very amusing and I don’t understand how some people don’t understand that if you get high position you get parody. God forgive that we forget how to laugh at ourselves.
Happy 2018 everyone.
Sorry if anyone has posted about this already.
Has anyone seen the news that iconic Conan Doyle pub in Edinburgh is to be rebranded JK Rowling?!!!!! Really? Gobsmacked.
Re. Only an Excuse. Didn’t watch it but can imagine. The BBC are Charter bound to sustain social cohesion throughout the UK. They must undermine any perceived threat to the current constitutional set-up. They do very well out of the arrangement, thanks.
link to oro.open.ac.uk
Excitable Speech
A Politics of the Performative
link to monoskop.org
Equality and Postcolonial Claims of Discursive Injury
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
On behalf of the Drams I’d like to wish all Wingers, readers and contributors a healthy and happy new year.
It is interesting the herald refers to them as anti independence group rather than unionists
Are they setting a tone of voice here
Like referring to Afghanistan as I insurgents in their own country
Happy New Year to the Quines and Loons,
Shitty New Year to the whining yoons.. 🙂
mr thms says:
1 January, 2018 at 12:25 am
Only an Excuse was very bitter.. Don’t let it spoil your New Year.
Only an excuse stopped being funny after the first one, about time we got some reruns of Scotch and wry or Scotland the what
May I wish Stu an extremely guid new year, together with all the amazing Wings clan who support the cause of Independence for Scotland on this site.
It would be nice to think that 2018 was going to be a happy new year, but our Colonial Masters have no intention of allowing Scotland’s sense of well-being to be elevated to the realm of happiness. Quite the opposite.
It remains likely that events have not yet unfolded to the point of providing probability over Scottish independence, but at least there is the distinct chance that our Imperial Masters will destabilise further in the next twelve months.
Scotland does not need any increase in the sales of Crystal balls to enable us to know that in 2018 we must get ready to take our chance when it comes, and I for one am happy with that for the moment.
Happy New Year to one and all and thanks Stu for keeping many of us sane over the years.
Happy New Year Stu and all the wingers.
All the very best for 2018.
slàinte mhath dhut gach latha a chì mi thu agus a h-uile latha chan eil mi
Alba an-asgaidh
Happy new year to all from me working night shift offshore ???
@alexicon
Been there done that. You have a good one. I’m thinking of all you guys at least so you have a friend here.
alexicon,
Hey, look on the bright-side, at least you aren’t starting the new year with a hangover. Happy New Year.
Well, this is up, but my browser can’t play it, or the one on youtube, any chance anyone could post what it’s about? TIA!
link to facebook.com
HNY to you all
Jeezo its 2018 ……are we there yet ? …….awww FFs!
I’m listening to Martin Keatings YT only 20 mins in so nothing to report yet.
@yesindyref2
I’ve posted a link on Off Topic for you as the video is 52 minutes long, I’m 15 minutes in but…
link to wingsoverscotland.com
@Thepnr
Thanks, but can’t see that one either. I’ve got Windows XP, and probably not the latest player updates, as in theory they could cause problems. Ah well, I’ll have to be patient!
Well it seems to be about an online system that will be used for voting if we are denied a referendum!
He has given a deadline of this September for one to be in place.
And an online information hub with fundraising that’s been tidied up.
Also a postal service with a buy and sell capacity.
Like many of you I am intrigued as what Martin Keatings is going to post on FB.
Sorry if I have missed it.
My first question would be….
What about the people who aren’t online?
Although as a 21st century solution to people power that doesn’t have to resort to violence it is, I think worth exploring!
If we were talking about South Africa in the 90s and the sheer amount of the population that were not allowed a vote by their government this would have been the answer.
Not sure that Scotland is or will be at that point,so as to embrace the plan ….espically in the time frame he is working from.
Not forgetting that Westminster is not stupid enough to behave like the South African government did.
They are more likely to repeat the Northern Irish model ….or try to,and they have a significant amount of Scots to work with.
The other proposals sound doable….but what do I know!
Scotland.
@Liz g
First reaction I guess is What the …
To have any authenticity there’d have to be a valid registration and verification system, which wouldn’t be cheap. And unhackability 100% secure. But it could present a fallback, and having a fallback gives extra incentive for the likes of Westminster to provide an S30, and the Scotgov to force one in the first place. Otherwise Westminster looks like Spain, and the Scotgov unwilling. A bit of People power, the People are Sovereign.
So yeah, it has its place in the scheme of things.
Yesindyref2 @ 4.32
I was thinking that…
We would probably have to have the support of the local councils to get voter’s registration.
That’s what I mean when I say that the time frame is problematic.
We would need an environment where most were champing at the bit to vote and at the very least another Council Election.
Unless this group already have a solution to this!
But it’s still good to know we could work towards an alternative if we had to!
Afore eh go 😉
link to youtube.com
Ah the best.
William Wallace @ 5.15
Nice one William,
Health Wealth and Happiness to you and yours from me and mine…
And a guid night tae ye sir
@Liz g
Couldn’t sleep. Just thinking about that, and along the lines that the people are sovereign, it wouldn’t need councils or parliament. Some means of verification of a fair and secure vote would be needed, and of course servers capable of taking a thrashing within 16 hours including much higher peaks than for traditional voting, the problem is that for the sake of argument, if the referendum produced 2.1 million YES and 1.5 million NO, but everyone ignores the result – what then?
Basically court, a fair few expert witnesses, and deep deep pockets!
Soounds like fun 🙂
link to en.wikipedia.org
(Souter’s clause 28 referendum)
“From the 3,970,712 papers posted, 31.8% valid votes were returned with all votes counted by May 2000. The results showed that 86.8% of the returned ballots were in favour of keeping Section 28, and 13.2% in favour of repeal.”
The result was basically ignored.
The best way to stop the elite spending their offshore money on such groups is proper land reform regulation and taxation, this is what they fear most.
If they really are “Proud to be Scottish” then they should be proud to contribute money to the Scottish NHS and Education system via taxation, instead of money waster groups who appear to achieve very little.
Keep up the great work Stu.
HAPPY NEW YEAR to all Wingers.
Also hope this year sees the start of successful path to INDEPENDENCE FOR SCOTLAND!
LOVE TO STU AND ALL WINGERS FROM AUSTRALIA
MARY
yesindyref2 says:
1 January, 2018 at 6:41 am
@Liz g
Couldn’t sleep. Just thinking about that, and along the lines that the people are sovereign, ……. but everyone ignores the result – what then?
That’s what I’ve been saying for months. We are chugging along our route to Independence, or think we are, but yet we still have no clearly defined, and commonly recognised appreciation of what Scotland’s constitutional sovereignty actually means in practice and application.
IF we did, (and of course we assume that clarity confirmed Scotland’s people were sovereign), then Michel Barnier and the EU itself would not have the option of recognising Scotland as a sovereign interlocutor, because they would have no other choice in the matter. Neither would Westminster for that matter. They would have to negotiate with us on the basis of our constitutional sovereignty.
Right now however, nobody, including Holyrood, is recognising Scottish Sovereignty, and until that changes, then a referendum, a majority, a mandate, and even a hi tech electronic voting system all share the common problem of everybody’s bogey man UDI – having it Internationally recognised.
It is crazy to go careering down the road towards a snap Independence referendum without first establishing beyond all measure of doubt and ambiguity that the result will be recognised and accepted for it’s constitutional competence.
Until and unless we do that, then we will be putting ourselves in the EXACT same position as Catalonia. Westminster, respected as sovereign, will be pulling our strings just as Madrid pulls the strings in Catalonia.
Yes, Scotland is different, Scotland is Sovereign, Scotland is a Nation, Scotland has its own laws… Yes, yes, yes, … but it doesn’t mean a damned thing without Constitutional clarity and international recognition of our sovereignty.
Until we do this, then we are trying to score a goal when we don’t have any goal posts.
Sovereignty means nothing without recognition, but then we have the chicken and egg type scenario where your vote can’t be respected as sovereign unless you are sovereign in the first place, but if you are sovereign in the first place, why do you need a ballot to become sovereign? Before we need a referendum majority, we need absolute definitive clarity on our current constitutional status. Scotland, Westminster, the EU and the UN must all be on the same Constitutional page, ant the moment, we are not.
Scotland’s assertion of legal sovereignty, whether it’s legitimate or not, is NOT the version of events that is currently Internationally recognised. That crossroads in my humble opinion is where the issue of Scotland’s constitutional future stands, – not in an arbitrary referendum. That comes later. Let us first make sure that the result will count.
Whatiffery and speculation is interesting but totally irrelevant. All people have to do is vote for it. Simple. Vote SNP/SNP Vote for Independence. It really simple. Quick and easy. If people do that everything else will follow. Without that speculation etc is just irrelevant. and basically not helpful. Going round the houses time and time and making irrelevant comparison. In situations that are quite different. E.g. Scotland and Catalonia. To different to compare without qualifications is not helpful. . Different. History, different lifestyle, different Laws, different relationship, different economies, different political system, different monetary system etc etc.
One campaign at a time. Despite people’s obvious impatience. The psycho bastards can be challenged and defeated. It has happened extremely successfully, in recent times. Beaten at their own game. It is so simple just put a cross or number on a piece of paper.
Until then be thankful for good SNP governance. Standing up for Scotland. Imagine the alternative. Everything on going well and everything to play. The disaster of Brexit etc. Some folk like to drive themselves up the wall. Or on a course to fall over a cliff. Usually in ignorance,
One day at a time works well.
Ken, your second paragraph above/below including your own unique punctuation style, should be seen by many as a new year resolution.
‘One campaign at a time. Despite people’s obvious impatience. The psycho bastards can be challenged and defeated. It has happened extremely successfully, in recent times. Beaten at their own game. It is so simple just put a cross or number on a piece of paper.’
Simple. Independence or bust.
2018 has to be the year of the open door. It has to be made plain that we welcome all – no matter previous commitments,no matter previous arguments, no matter previous animosities – and that is the big one.
That means we have to be big enough. The obligation is firmly on us. A walk across the floor is the most difficult walk in politics and I suspect there are not a few hesitating still but contemplating it.
So on 2018 we do not attack people for their long held political views. We hold out a hand and say you are entitled to those views and you will be able to hold them and argue them in an independent Scotland. An independent democratic Scotland and a much better place than the one we are in now.
Breeks, ‘Westminster, respected as sovereign, will be pulling our strings..!
Huh?
QE2 is sovereign. Until we get our heads around the WITCHCRAFT AND SORCERY THAT CREATED AND MAINTAINS OUR ROYALS DIVINE RIGHT TO RULE.
No excuse BBC, that was a Bad Bad move.
Anyway thanks for the free publicity to watch ( The Alex Salmond show on RT ). Google it people or watch it on RT and make your own mind up, what is best.
One last thing, you have made a lot of people make a resolution to stop paying the TV licence fee. Thanks for that some people can now switch on the heater more.
Batten down the hatches it’s going to be a bumpy and unhappy ride for Ukania in 2018. Hope we are well prepared. Hope there’s a referendum in the offing Nicola?
Didn’t all that ‘celebratory’ noise sound very much like shelling and gun fire? The sounds of Syria. Ironic….
Well, happy New Year to Stu and family and to all the great Wings contributors. I hope Stu predicts another quiet year if the last prediction is anything to go by!
We do need to have our sovereignty established to go forward with our aims and dreams of Independence, knowing that for sure would be a very big boost. When we truly understand we need to tip our hat to no one. We will then be who we want to be. So we need legal conformation as other posters have pointed out.
So lets buckle down to the task this year and take out footsteps back into the world again and throw the shackles of the totally corrupt “Union” into the trash bin.
2018, onwards and upwards.
Just a question to add, just why would Westminster spend so much money and man power on controlling Scotland, if they seriously think we cannot just walk away if the people want to do so?
Just up and not at all hungover – obviously getting old and ‘sensible’.
HAPPY NEW YEAR one and all and may it be the best of years for SCOTLAND!
CNN anchorjust said..
paraphrased,
‘..how will Megan keep her views without over-stepping into any politics’
Well- she shouldn’t marry into an occultist family of fecking weirdos .
The Royals have been suppressing the true diverse nature of ‘these islands’ FOR A THOUSAND YEARS.
The punction style if unique. Is deliberate. To keep it brief. Easy to read and less effort to express. Simple. Once given some advise which comes in handy for less effort. Precise. Small sentences. Brief direct point. Less effort, Not writing a rambling book. Just giving a few pointers. Of where to look etc.
That is one reason why twitter can be called a success. Although many can’t be bothered with it. Utimately it can take up too much time on it. Although it can be very extremely informative. Quick and relatively easy. Long posts can just not Be read. People can’t be bothered, Humans can have short attention spans, Especially with the never ending flood of information. So much to do. So little time. Pre text, spelling, punctuation is still a major consideration. Unfortunately.
Better with Wings. Twitter and the internet.
Aye, happy new year to all intelligent,compassionate people out there.
Enjoy the Royal wedding to the rest.
@louis.B.argyle,
Not jut the Royals suppressing the true nature. The church in whichever form itv was played a huge part also.
In fact such a huge part that one King felt the need to set up their own church so he could marry another wife, some felt the need for the “Glorious revolution” and replaced the king with their own figured in the king’s place.
And all the time the ruling class (now as then) quietly beavered away in the shadows coercing and pulling unseen strings. As true even today as then – as proven by Stu this we.
Anyway, all the best to wingers near and far. 2 hrs more and finished work. Steak pie for one waiting at home, and maybe a wee glass of Sid – since he wife has decided to spend Christmas back in a cold and windy Lanarkshire.
Megan will have to keep her views without political interference. That is what she is supposed to be buying into. That could become a long running saga. She should not be so ignorant. She is intending marrying a Tory Royal who maims and kills without conscience. To fund his gross extravagant publically funded wealth. She should not be so deluded. Or how long will it last? The Royals are supposed to be impartial, and not interfere or intervene in any political matters. Or use false influence secret or otherwise. As a impartial, neutral head of State. That is what their position is supposed to be based upon. Over rated in any case. Or how long will they last? If they do not rein it in.
Dear sweet Megan could destroy the Monarchy. The irony. She is an actress capable of betraying a false identity. Necessary for that role. Maybe that is why she is the chosen one.
I have nothing personal against Royals or unionist politicians, it’s just their lies, their deceit, their privilege, their well-disguised warmongering and their self-imposed-righteousness that troubles me.
Am I bad?
I AM A DAD.
I AM SNP MAD.
AM I (SNP) BAD?
Looks like they had another fundraiser recently.
link to google.co.uk
@Robert Peffers
Happy new year to you, mister.
“but each and every member state has a veto”.
These days it is far more limited: “The Lisbon Treaty, which came into force in 2009, saw the most recent phase of integration, and saw the introduction of qualified majority voting in over 30 policy areas, effectively removing members veto powers in the majority of policy areas.
Where can we use a veto?
There are now only a few areas of EU policy where changes require a unanimous vote. In these few areas member states still effectively have a veto on EU decisions. They are:
Common Foreign and Security Policy (with the exception of certain clearly defined cases which require qualified majority, e.g. Appointment of a special representative)
Citizenship – the granting of new rights to EU citizens
New EU membership
Harmonisation of national legislation on indirect taxation
EU finances (own resources, the multiannual financial framework)
Certain provisions in the field of justice and home affairs (the European prosecutor, family law, operational police cooperation, etc.)
Harmonisation of national legislation in the field of social security and social protection.
“FM does not act without a mandate, what’s the Scot Govt / FM mandate for attempting to negotiate UK soft Brexit?
They do have a mandate for Scotland remaining in the Single Market: ” But if the SNP wins this election, we will demand that keeping Scotland in the
Single Market is made a part of the UK’s Brexit negotiations”.
So the ONLY mandate they had was to demand ABOUT SCOTLAND. NOT THE UK.
With all these SICo’s being so easily exposed for who and what they are, then there are surely a few sqeaky bums cutting about in other camps this last few days. It probably won’t hit the headlines but this kind of exposure must be a sare kick in the baws for the yoons. I’m looking forward to all the shit 2018 brings, the can of worms has only just come of the shelf but in the the meantime – The Donkey’s safe & the Trout are on the run 🙂 Happy New Year…
Al dossary, (watch that E in Argyll) Ken500,
It’s getting surreal, inequality in our faces, defended by carefully orchestrated concentrated sentimentality. Loyalism as a philosophy.
All we see on TV is Royals, get out of their car,
open their jacket button,
close the button,
put hand in pocket,
take back out again,
open jacket button,
put hand in pocket,
edge towards some mad-yins with umbrella hats,
shake hands,
state the bleeding obvious about some veterans or land-mine charity they could bankroll from the interest from their offshore wealth alone,
Oh dear, I mean,
..Oh, happy new year!
Lord Colin Alexander-Troll.
Or is that just..
Sir Colin Alexander-Troll.
Sorry Wingers, it’s my natural compassion that feeds them, although rarely now.
yesindyref2 says:
1 January, 2018 at 2:52 am
Well, this is up, but my browser can’t play it, or the one on youtube, any chance anyone could post what it’s about? TIA!
link to facebook.com
Ruby replies
I was hoping you could tell me what it’s about.
Why don’t you download the YouTube video?
I’ve just quickly scanned through it but my understanding is that they have designed a program to offer a full proof referendum and unless the UK/Scottish Gov offer a referendum they will do it.
They have also designed lots of online programmes to help YES groups things like a Ebay style site where YES groups can sell their goods, crowd funding, sites where groups can publish articles and eventually videos.
He also spoke a lot about the loss of our human rights.
Oh dear, I see Coco has the ‘runs’ once again. Can anyone supply him with some Immodium – and pretty sharpish please.
I should have added to the above post that ForwardAsOne want the referendum on 18th September 2018. I think that’s what he said.
I would be good if they could publish a written transcript of the speech.
They do have a mandate for Scotland remaining in the Single Market: ” But if the SNP wins this election, we will demand that keeping Scotland in the
Single Market is made a part of the UK’s Brexit negotiations”.
Despite the usual not trying to throw up New Years day stuff Colin A, all your waffle goes pop, when we look over the sea about 50 miles to the east of Scotland, at European Union member nation state Republic of Ireland.
Do we really need to go into specifics, Colin A, you wet yoon fart, at even just the last month and how our imperial master baiters discovered the hard way, that the European Union member state Republic of Ireland, was infinitely more powerful than them.
TeamGB. We are going to have the UK/NI border that we want.
NI. No.
TeamGB. Ok, sorry.
Scotland. can we maybe stay a little bit in the EU, imperial master baiters?
TeamGB. No.
Scotland region. OK, sorry.
Spot the difference Colin A.
Its very easy isn’t it.
Yesindyref2 @ 6.41 ( sorry I did sleep ) & Breeks @ 8.03
I have only had one listen…but I think in his introduction he was getting at securing the vote while still under the protection of the ECJ,and with international observer’s of some discription!
I took that to mean that an ignored vote would be taken to court with the supporting documents that establish our Soverign right to hold one.
Also our claim that we have voted to remain members of the EU.
Which would establish our Sovereignty Internationally, force the EU into taking a position (while they’re negotiating with Westminster) and examine the vote to validate it!
That, I think, is the ” Threat ” if you like.
But also what is squeezing the time frame from the other end.
As you say Breeks establishing our Sovereignty in a public court is long overdue and I have never denied that.
Or that it’s one route to breaking the Treaty…. I have only ever said that is not the path we are on…..
This guy is more or less sayin the same thing…..IE should a vote be denied….. we’re gonnay dae it anyway without government permission or oversight…..and then we are going to take every step to get it recognised, because we’re Soverign and unlike Catilonia the Legal documents support that position.
As I have said to (mibbi you Breeks) somebody, before….
You don’t take your neighbour to court to stop them building a fence if they are not actually trying to build one,but your right not to have one built is still there.
This proposal is apparently ready to go,in the event our neighbors start building.
Having said that our Neighbors have always been very careful to leave us with the “impression” that we have always been able to leave anytime we want to and of course we in theory and in fact are…..till it actually looks like we are going to.
Sometimes I think that’s why a lot of Scots are so relaxed about it.
Westminster always makes out the will of the people is being carried out….. Northern Ireland, Falklands, Gibraltar ect..
As in….you recently had a referendum….true
Now is not the time…. mibbi later on
Once in a generation…. well there’s always another generation.
They never actually say No !
Scots proud to support the United Kleptocracy. May they meet their nemesis right soon.
The point that most people do not get or refused to accept repeatedly is that the majority in Catalonia voted NO. Despite how much some outsiders would want and perceive it to be different. It is/was different. It is democratic to support that decision. 47% voted YES. Not enough to get over the line. Or to declare illegal UDI.
Ken 500 @ 11.57
Oh we get the point….but currently everyone is left with only the choice to recognise one of the two results…..
( For the purpose of this discussion around the proposal released last night
It’s the fact that there is a legal impediment to the vote and to any part of Spain leaving that’s the issue.)
And since we’re not Catilonian its a matter for them to work through,the only position that outsiders can (and as far as I can tell do ) take is in support of Democracy.
Settle the issue through the ballot box there is clearly a issue so get an answer….. simple…..the mess is only because the question is not being properly asked.
And shame on the Spanish government for that!
But we have no such issues…..the comparisons are around a vote being denied…..which would mean inventing reasons to do so,and our response to that!
Liz g says:
1 January, 2018 at 11:31 am
Yesindyref2 @ 6.41 ( sorry I did sleep ) & Breeks @ 8.03
I have only had one listen…but I think in his introduction he was getting at securing the vote while still under the protection of the ECJ,and with international observer’s of some description…
Yes, and I think that’s vital. We cannot wait until Brexit.
But my point is, why wait to appeal to judicial sources after the referendum that we know is likely going to be contested on constitutional grounds? Why not get the legal distinction in the bag, and squared away, before the ballot ever happens? That way we all know, Scotland, Westminster and the EU, what is at stake, and where the finish line is. Once upon a time, it was a commonly held belief that a simple SNP majority was the finishing line…
It troubles me that we satisfy ourselves that Constitutional justice is on our side, we have a history of Nation status, etc.etc.etc… Not because I think we are wrong, I do not, but because if you had asked a Catalonian Independentists before their referendum, I rather suspect they’d have said the same things we are currently saying, and they put all of their faith in democracy to swing international opinion. They took the gamble, and it didn’t work.
In the likely event Westminster will not agree to another Section 30 to recognise the referendum result, we require the same type of “probationary recognition” of our sovereign emancipation to come from somewhere else, – either the EU or the UN. When we go to the polls, even if we still don’t know whether Westminster will respect the result, we can afford to take that chance IF we have it in writing that the EU and UN automatically will recognise the result.
If we expect the EUCJ to intervene on our behalf after the event, then why not get that judgement taken to the bank before the event? Give me one good reason.
Because here’s the thing… For every increment we secure along the path towards Independence, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The more Sovereign we are recognised to be, the less Sovereign Westminster becomes.
And here’s the thing within a thing, as I’ve repeated a hundred times before, Sovereignty is an absolute binary condition. Yes/No, no maybe. Black/white, no grey. We are sovereign, or we are not.
So even though we are discussing Sovereignty as a provisional or transitional condition, I personally don’t think the EU Court of Justice will suffer consideration of any such interim condition. – If Scotland’s Sovereignty is proven, legal, legitimate and constitutionally robust, then it will be recognised as absolute condition with no ambiguity or obscurity. IF the EUCJ is satisfied Scotland’s claim to be sovereign is judged to be competent, then the EUCJ will effectively recognise Scotland as being a Sovereign Nation, and a Sovereign Nation by legal definition, with or without the democratic ratification of a referendum.
We could win Scotland’s Independence through Constitutional Law, and downgrade the IndyRef2 ballot to a ratification plebiscite. If we vote Yes, we vote Yes as a Sovereign Nation. If we vote No, we vote No as a Sovereign Nation. But if we do vote No, we do not forfeit our Sovereignty, but merely place ourselves into the abstract absurdity of a constitutional no-man-land. A very similar constitutional absurdity to where we have already been for the last 300 years.
Furthermore, IF the EUCJ made such a determination in our favour, then the Brexit process is dead in an instant because Michel Barnier suddenly does not have one sovereign interlocutor to negotiate with, but two.
@Liz g, according to the UK Govt here:
link to gov.uk
It says: “The Scottish independence referendum was a once-in-a-generation opportunity for people in Scotland to have their say about the country’s future.”
So, there you have it, if anyone doubts how HM Govt views any future indyrefs.
So, Scotland MUST exercise her sovereignty, cos if we are waiting on bended knee for permission like serfs: Nae chance for 20 years at least, according to this.
So, in my opinion, Breeks et al are absolutely correct. Any indyref is putting the cart before the horse. Worse, it’s suggests Scotland only becomes sovereign by becoming independent. That’s wrong.
The UK lost much of it’s independence – BUT retained ultimate sovereignty – when it joined the European UNION. It didn’t need EU permission to decide to leave that Union.
That decision was made unilaterally without seeking or getting permission from the EU. Yet, nobody calls that UDI.
The EU can’t stop the UK leaving, deal or no deal. As the UK retained sovereignty.
Within the UK UNION, I would argue the same principle applies for Scotland.
Whether we (Scotland) remain in the UK Union or not is a Scotland matter. We neither need to ask permission, nor do it in a manner that the UK approves of.
As long as Scotland’s people makes the decision in a way that meets modern standards of democracy – as a way of establishing the sovereign will of the people – that’s what matters.
One important caveat to my previous comment…
If the EUCJ examined the case for Scottish Sovereign legitimacy before any referendum, it would put the Articles of the 1707 Union under the microscope.
If however the EUCJ was asked to make a ruling on Sovereignty after a referendum, and a YES result of course, then rather than deconstructing the 1707 Union, the Court would have the expedient alternative option of simply declaring the referendum result marked the Union being materially at an end.
Whether we (Scotland) remain in the UK Union or not is a Scotland matter. We neither need to ask permission, nor do it in a manner that the UK approves of.”
So why are you not doing that then Colin A, declaring Scotland an indy nation state. You rant and rage btl WoS, SNO bad, we all must stop voting SNP because….
So Colin A, you and Breeks can do it, together, seeing as you’re both sovereign Scots. Think there’s another zoomer btl WoS, Lochside, who will join you both in your declaration of Scottish indy.
Make sure its televised Colin A. We cast you three in bronze and stick you on a pedestal, outside Pacific Quay, like the one under the railway bridge at Arbroath.
The previous comment I referred to hasn’t appeared yet… so I resubmit it…
[EDIT BY REVSTU]
“The previous comment I referred to hasn’t appeared yet… so I resubmit it…”
Then GET READY TO BE BANNED. How many sodding times do I have to say it?
DON’T.
FUCKING.
RESUBMIT.
THE.
SAME.
COMMENT.
@Heedtracker
Aww that’s nice you suggest we have statues of us for standing up for Scotland’s sovereignty. So, thank you for the kind gesture.
I can’t speak for others but, Scotland’s sovereignty being upheld, respected and used wisely for the good of Scotland’s people, is all I want. But ta anyway.
I can’t speak for others but, Scotland’s sovereignty being upheld, respected and used wisely for the good of Scotland’s people, is all I want. But ta anyway.
You’re welcome Colin A.
In the years to come, millions of Scots will look up at your Declaration of Scotland’s Sov statue and plonk a traffic cone on it.
@Ken500
Democracy is simply fairy dust states apply to themselves. One must look beneath the surface.
Neither the British or Spanish states are as functionally democratic as they pretend. We ought to be rightly sceptical when the demos words are flaunted by states with ‘form’. Their game is survival, Their integrity under threat the conventions of popular governance are easily discarded.
Breeks @ 12.52
But Breeks the one thing that you don’t seem to have taken into account is that the 2014 referendum validated the 1707 Treaty agreement.
We The Sovereign Scots confirmed that we did indeed want to be bound by the terms and conditions of that Treaty.
Now I know that the debate was never framed that way,but in reality that’s what we did.
The only argument now is how long the.. Now.. legitimate Treaty will last.
And any court will look at what a reasonable “man” can infer.
So therefore how often could or should the issue reasonably be revisited ?
Our Soverign right to do so is not in dispute…..the precedent was set in 2014 and quite properly set by us.
We voted the people into Holyrood who said they would arrange a vote,and a vote happened.
So in theory our Sovereignty from a legal point of view is a non issue for the Courts,it was in place and working a few years back.
It’s only unless and until “that Sovereignty” is stymied by the politicians….and demonstrated to be constrained…that I could see a Court even trying to make a judgement on it.
Currently they would have the get out of declaring it a political issue,and,IMHO, they would use it.
Probably resulting in a media shit storm about how we “Lost” which most would believe.
@Breeks
Regarding the upholding of Scottish sovereignty. Personally, I would assert and act as if sovereign – as we are.
The UK Govt did not go to court to seek permission to exercise sovereignty within the EU when holding an EU Ref, they just did it. It was then up to the EU to legally challenge it, which they didn’t.
For the UK the legal issues were not the sovereignty, but the legal means of exercising it: Royal prerogative v WM parliament.
For Scotland, it’s a similar situation. S30 or no S30?
I would argue, MSPs are not the representatives of Scotland’s sovereignty. For Scotland, if the upholding of sovereignty is done via the FM and Scottish Govt, then this is choosing to act under devolution, The Scotland Act, which empowered MSPs to act as WM’s lackeys and nothing more. By this route legally, a S30 would be required for a legally binding indyref.
I would suggest Scotland’s MPs would be empowered to vote to decide if Scotland should remain in the EU or EEA.
However, they should have a democratic mandate for this from the sovereign people of Scotland. Fortunately, The SNP ones already have a mandate to:”Protect Scotland’s place in the single market and demand for the Scottish government a place at the table in Brexit negotiations.”
Clearly, that has not happened. I would suggest, Scotland’s MPs meet to discuss and vote on, if Scotland’s sovereignty has been upheld and respected, as a first step. If they vote that it appears Scotland’s sovereignty has not been upheld and respected.
The SNP ones also have a democratic mandate for an indyref: “Hold a second independence referendum “at the end of the Brexit process”
Scotland’s SNP MPs already have the power and the democratic mandate to demand to keep Scotland in the Single Market and instruct for an indyref to be held.
If anyone or any organisation, seeks to challenge that view, let them take the legal action to try and have the actions of the Scottish MPs declared as unlawful.
As I see it, the road is wide open to fighting to retain SCOTLAND’s Single Market membership and hold an indyref. But the SNP won’t take it. They are not using the power invested in Scottish MPs as the democratically elected representatives of Scottish sovereignty.
It’s a bit early in the year for the cuckoo isn’t it?
Liz g says:
1 January, 2018 at 1:37 pm
Breeks @ 12.52
But Breeks the one thing that you don’t seem to have taken into account is that the 2014 referendum validated the 1707 Treaty agreement…
I don’t believe it did Liz. In 2014 the referendum options were for constitutional change, or no constitutional change – the status quo. The majority elected for the status quo.
The status quo however was, and remains, a constitutional dogs breakfast. A YES vote would ensured a revised constitutional arrangement, but the NO option was a constitutionally illiterate ratification of a 300 year old dogs breakfast.
In my opinion, Scotland needs to deconstruct this constitutional mess, strip away all ambiguity and unsubstantial adopted conventions, and determine what is legitimate and lawfully competent, and once the essential principles are thoroughly understood, rebuild Scotland’s sovereign constitution from first principles.
@Breeks / @Liz g
In theory there are two schools. One is to trust Sturgeon and the SNP to be totally aware of the situation and playing it carefully and correctly. The other is to be very wary and wonder why a Ref hasn’t been give a date already. With shades in-between, as to be blunt, blind trust is a fool’s game.
So at a tangent, this initiative by Forward as One who, from a posting by Ronnie Anderson I think it was, have had the help of 20 people worldwide to put together their plans, can be a bit of a half-way house we could all support.
To put together an online platform that is robust, can take huge demand, and has verificable integrity and security is a mammoth undertaking. But it would also have to be stress tested a few times before being actually ready for a referendum, and open for neutral inspection, and that’s where it could be used perhaps for online polling. Not the usual opinion poll of 1,026 or even 2,000 respondents, but tens and hundreds of thousands.
The results couldn’t be statistically valid as respondents would be self-selecting and the chances are unionists would avoid it, but the results could be used to get data – and publicity, and perhaps an advance acceptabilty, as long as it reports its results with all the neccessary caveats about the self-selection, where Indy supporters would be much more likely to use it.
Breeks @ 4.14
A constitutional dog breakfast it may be (and in that I totally agree ) but we voted for it.
And in law ignorance is no excuse.
Devo Max on the ballot may have “stripped away all the ambiguity” ect,in order to define it.
But they wouldn’t allow that to get on the ballot paper during the horse trading over the Edinburgh agreement.
They did say it during the 2014 campaign ….”why break up a 300 year old Union “…..so it was indeed a vote for the 1707 Treaty to remain in place.
The Nobles may have signed us up to it….but we have now agreed that it’s exactly what we want….and sadly some still do!
In fact what right has a Court to overrule that?
Only we …The Scot’s… can…but in attempting to do that, we can’t be stopped,the mandate is safe away at Holyrood.
Yesindyref2 @ 4.58
Well as Alex Salmon’s himself said after Indy ref 1 ” there are many roads to independence “so I don’t see anything wrong with exploring other options.
And its good to have a fall back plan but truly I don’t think we will need one
As you say yesindy2 the problem lies with trust , Nicola ( I hope ) must feel as frustrated as the rest of us , she must know and be aware that the establishment are twisted barstewards who will do ANYTHING to hogtie their rich neighbour for their own benefit.
I don’t envy her in this game of poker , her problem lays in the indy1 results , which we all know were nobbled . If she goes too early it gives the feckers a chance to get organised ( maybe even stopping brexshit ) seriously, which would probably scupper another indy vote which WE would all hate .
I like everybody else is desperately chomping at the bit , but I don’t want us to lose again by allowing the maybot wriggle room which she will have if we go too early
Nicola has to wait until the britnats have set out their stall in tablets of stone where it can’t be retreated from , that way people will know that the statis quo is no longer available and their ONLY choice is indy or staying with the STINKING SINKING SHIP.
In the meantime as you said yesindy2 the SG can be looking and trialing the proposals put forward by forwardasone
We are ALL aware that certain sections of our society will fight ( literally ) against independence no matter the outcome , so Nicola is taking that into consideration by attempting to assuage the concerns of the many by governing competently and hopefully negating the extremists
I personally wish it were not so , but when we win SCOTLAND will be a better place for peace and tranquillity and the extremists will be shamed and ostracised
@twathater
Pretty much, though the good thing is that less media attention on IR2 at the moment is probably a good thing, as people can move to YES almost subconciously – the way people were NO in the first place.
@Liz g says (about Forward As One): “Well it seems to be about an online system that will be used for voting if we are denied a referendum!
He has given a deadline of this September for one to be in place.
And an online information hub with fundraising that’s been tidied up.
Also a postal service with a buy and sell capacity.”
Thanks for that synopsis Liz G, Ronnie posted a youtube link on a later thread that worked for me of the 52 minute 40 second video, and I gave up after a minute and a half of New Year good wishes from someone I don’t know and an apology about the length. Needs an elevator pitch, 2 minutes tops. “We plan to …, next step is …, more information will be …” kerching, listener hooked.
link to youtube.com
[…] link to wingsoverscotland.com […]
Robert Peffers,
“Never mind, though, Rock will be along soon to tell you, as usual without quoting any evidence, that Scotland isn’t a sovereign kingdom and Westminster holds sovereignty over Scotland.”
Only an aggressive verbal bully here and a nasty person in real life like yourself would need to resort to petty points in an extremely serious article like this one.
After 310 years as a colony of England, only an utter moron like yourself would pretend that Scotland is “sovereign”.
Yesindyref2 @ 6.36
You’re welcome, I thought he went on a bit at the startas well!
But then I realised that was trying to speak as if there were “first” time listener’s.
Much like we try to do sometimes, Robert Peffers being the best example,he uses every opportunity to reiterate the how,when and why of the Union.
Which as you know needs a bit of space for the telling.
Anyhoo if you …just want ” the facts ” FBI style, LOL….
Start from 21min’s in.
@ Liz g.
YOU tell them hen. 😉 x
The story of the list of donors to SiU reminds me so much of the list of who were paid to sign the treaty of Union in 1707.. I wonder if any are their ancestors – that would be interesting to find out 🙂