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The Template

Posted on January 22, 2017 by

Actual Scottish politics news continues to be thinner on the ground than the crowds at a Donald Trump inauguration, so we sympathise once more with the gentle souls of the Scottish press as they endeavour to fill empty pages without doing anything more journalistically strenuous than slightly rewording a Labour or Tory press release.

yourname

Fortunately for us, of course, we’ve always got their dismal efforts to talk about.

As alert readers will know, every now and again we like to do a case study in which we examine one particular piece in some depth, as a handy instructional reference guide to the media’s universal modus operandi. The lead Scotland story in today’s Sunday Times is prime material, so let’s get busy.

samuel1

The paper informs us that Bill Samuel was the former chairman of Motherwell, but then oddly lapsed in its use of tenses by neglecting to point out that he’s also a FORMER businessman and a FORMER donor to the SNP. As far as we can tell he gave the party money exactly once, a decade ago, and has never done so since.

According to the story Mr Samuel is 73 years old, and a reader claiming to be a close family friend tells us that he’s long retired, having not had “a business that employs anyone since the 90s”.

samuel2

Our source says Samuel also hasn’t supported the SNP for years, something the Times covers itself for in the next paragraph by saying he’s believed to be the first substantial donor to publicly abandon the party” (our emphasis). It doesn’t tell us who believes this.

samuel20

(We’re also not told whether the appeal from Angus Robertson was a personal plea, or whether it was just one of the scores of fundraising mailing-list emails all parties send out regularly. We’re clearly expected to assume the former, but normally a writer would make that plain by using a word like “personally”.)

samuel3

A “political observer”, you say? Why so coy, Times? Worried that it might in some way undermine the credibility of the story if you told us up front? Let’s hope we get to find out who they are at some point later in the article, eh?

samuel4

We must assume Gordon Wilson and Alex Bell were both out yesterday.

samuel5

“Tory Doesn’t Like Rich People Being Taxed” would have been a less eye-catching headline, we have to concede. But hold on – not cutting the higher tax threshold has been “widely condemned as a £190m raid on middle Scotland”? Has it really? By who, exactly? We’re not sure the Daily Telegraph – Scottish sales 16,300 and source of the only condemnation we can find using the £190m figure – counts as “widely”.

samuel6

Now, we already know that the SNP are constantly attacked both for taxing Scots too much and not taxing them enough, so by this point in the story we can be sure the Sunday Times won’t be asking Labour – who excoriate them for the latter – for any quotes. We should probably expect Ruth Davidson to be along any minute, though.

samuel7

Wait a minute – this happened “within days” of the SNP coming to power in 2007? Yet the paper tells us he continued to support them for another 10 years after this? Hmm.

samuel8

Wowsers. “An impenetrable gloom has settled across our ancient land”? All because the higher-rate tax threshold is being kept the same as it was before? That’s some ambitious hyperbole there.

samuel9

Hurray! “SIGNIFICANT BLOW FOR STURGEON” as man who hasn’t donated to her party in a decade continues not to donate to it. And how nice it is to put a name to our “observer” from earlier on, and what a refreshing change to have David Torrance say something negative about the SNP. Has Ruth Davidson still not turned up?

samuel10

Ah, there we go. Davidson’s weasel words in that second paragraph are interesting. The Tory leader is slightly less dim than her Labour counterpart Kezia Dugdale, and tends to be rather more circumspect about making claims that are easy to factually disprove. Hence she merely says Scotland is “tagged as” being the highest-taxed part of the UK, because that distances her from the statement if it should happen, for example, to be total cobblers.

(She also carefully fails to point out that almost all of the people “tagging” Scotland as the most highly-taxed part of the UK are, er, her own MSPs.)

samuel11

samuel14

samuel12

samuel13

In fairness, though, we should at least be grateful that we haven’t had to put up with any dodgy-sounding unattributed quotes from unnamed party insiders yet.

samuel15

Darn it.

And there’s never a bad time for the Scottish press to propagate the weary old lie that when Nicola Sturgeon said a referendum was “once in a generation” she was making a promise rather than giving a description, so now would probably be as good a point as any to slip it in.

samuel18

In an admirably creative touch, the Times then tries to bolster this desperately weak congealment of non-news and innuendo with a callback to another piece of drivel it published seven days earlier.

samuel16

Peter De Vink’s full quote was that Nicola Sturgeon “is worse than Thatcher in terms of centralising control, which the Sunday Times ran under an almost hilariously misleading headline:

samuel17

The story still lacks a Brexit angle, though. Can we work one in somehow?

samuel19

Good old Jim. And to be fair, it’s actually a bit of an unexpected twist ending that Sillars has been revealed as being someone keener on leaving the EU than Scottish independence, which is presumably why he gets to bang on about it for several more paragraphs after this to close the piece, the paper having now quite forgotten Bill Samuel and his single decade-old donation amid its scattershot “SNP BAD” rambling.

Replace the names and the Sunday Times, along with every other paper in Scotland, has probably run this exact same story a hundred times in the last year. “PERSON X WHO ONCE LIKED OR HAD SOME SORT OF CONNECTION TO THE SNP NOW SAYS THE SNP ARE BAD, SO HERE’S A SUMMARY OF ALL THE BAD THINGS ABOUT THE SNP AGAIN, WITH QUOTES FROM WHICHEVER OPPOSITION LEADER IS MOST APPROPRIATE TO THIS PARTICULAR VARIATION”.

If they don’t have a template that they can just drop the names and topics into, they probably should. It might save them enough time to go and do some journalism.

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    1. 22 01 17 11:57

      The Template | speymouth

    2. 23 01 17 13:04

      The Template | Templates | Scoop.it

    3. 09 03 17 08:49

      Furious Wings Mod

    230 to “The Template”

    1. Grouse Beater says:

      All the embarrassing evidence of press skulduggery laid out for all to see; their hackneyed template of how to fool a lot of people a lot of the time.

      By the way, I’ve given large sums to the SNP, but not a lot lately. I also dislike their happy-go-lucky attitude to the arts, elevation of the second rater, and detest their inability to get Creative Scotland to be creative, so you can add me to your list of …

      “SNP supporter highly critical of SNP”.

      Written a while back, this anecdotal essay sums up the bozo laden, thick-headed Scottish press, true to their Unionist masters, happy to feed slop to their readers:

      http://wp.me/p4fd9j-dC

    2. Albaman says:

      I’m no lover of “The Donald”, but if he thinks he’s got problems with the press over there, he ought to try looking at the unionists ones over here, from a Scottish perspective that is.

    3. Golfnut says:

      The recently formed BBC fake news brigade will be on to top of this, surely, won’t they?

    4. gordoz says:

      Further proof positive why WoS is my source of news choice in the North of Britain (as Kez would like it put )

    5. gordoz says:

      Rev – does this fit into the MSM lazy or complicit journo category ? 🙂

    6. ClanDonald says:

      Error, sorry Murdo, It wasn’t the SNP that made Scotland the “highest taxed part of the UK,” it was the London Tories, thanks to their tax cut for high earners in the rest of the UK. Wonder why you’re not keen to boast about that?

    7. Simple. Stop paying taxes to London’s Black Hole.

    8. Jim Davidson says:

      I love a bit of Rev on a Sunday morning. If there’s not a template for deconstructing msm pish there should be. It might save you some time to get off to the pub.

    9. Dr Ew says:

      Murdoch outlet is anti-SNP? Hmmm. Hard to know whether to trust some of these multinational media moguls, ain’t it.

    10. Bob MACK says:

      Bang on Rev. This morning I heard Piers Morgan stating that it was unfair of the press to try and deliberately undermine the American government. He obviously has no such qualms when it happens in Scotland.

      They are an arm of the establishment. No more,no less. I believe nothing they say any more, and I will continue in that vein.

      Deceit is their headline and venom is their copy.

    11. Ken500 says:

      SNP has plenty of donors. Westminster Unionists tax Scotland at a higher rate than the rest of the UK. Taxed the Oil sector at 60% to 80%. Losing thousands of jobs and revenues in Scotland. Taxes raised in Scotland £54Billion++ Taxes raised in the UK £515Billion.

      Taxes raised in the rest of the UK. £461Billion. Divide £461Billion by 11 (pop) = £42Billion (pro rata) Pro rata Westminster taxes Scotland at £12Billion more than the rest of the UK. Borrows and spends £100Billion more and takes on average £4Billion+ of debt repayments from Scotland for money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. It is wasted and squandered on absolete projects in the rest of the UK. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. Getting the rest of the UK into £Trns of debt. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Westminster Gov causing the worse migration crisis in the world since 11WW. Debt ever increasing. Taking the UK out if the EU will make it worse.

      Peter Fink obliviously drinks too much. It clouds his judgement. Just look at the profile. Sad. Counselling might help.

    12. Ken500 says:

      Piers Morgan contract in the US media was terminated. He should have been out in jail for illegal hacking. Piers Morgan and Alistair Campbell. Calling each other out on Preston last Sunday.

    13. heedtracker says:

      “There’s never a bad time for the Scottish press to propagate the weary old lie that when Nicola Sturgeon said a referendum was “once in a generation” she was making a promise, rather than a description, so now would probably be as good a point as any to slip it in.”

      Is classic tory thuggery, everywhere.

      If we the people, want to talk, think, plan, hold referendums, it is our absolute democratic right to do that.

      UKOK hackdom in particular know where they can shove their shouting, you lost shut up and for a generation…up their arses, if you were wondering:D

    14. Macart says:

      That’s pretty much a classic example of why there is no trust between the supporters of independence and the media.

      What’s to trust?

      Neatly done Rev.

    15. Andy Anderson says:

      Yesterday on the BBC there was an article on the Newswatch program(used to be called Points of View) when keen Brexiteers were moaning that the BBC are reporting more anti Brexit news than positive news. Well I had to write to them about what is happening here re SNP bad and Scotland useless. Needless to say I expect it will be ignored.
      Good article Rev.

    16. Marcia says:

      I find the Sunday Times article about the donor to be quite amusing. I have been a regular monthly donor for decades and don’t expect any favours other than an invite to the Donor’s reception at Annual Conference. One person gives a one off donation for whatever reason a decade ago and now moans about it. It must be a very slow news weekend.

    17. Hamish100 says:

      Piers Stefan Pughe-Morgan well know Irishman of the Irish Republic ( Piers Morgan to you or me) on the Marr show promoting Trump.
      Morgan pontificates Trump loves this country. He is an “Anglophile ” His mother was born in Scotland! He’s a 1/2 Brit. Now Morgan may be confused as a half muggle like JR of HPotter fame but you would think a journalist had some grasp of what the term Anglophile means.

      Andrew Marr as Scot should have corrected him. Surely Trump’s mum was more Celtic than Anglo-Saxon or even sassenach. So we have the potential of Trump going around Balmoral in a wee golf buggy with HM Queenie and with a round of golf with her son Andrew being told we are all little angles. No doubt Murdo Fraser, Davidson and Dugdale will be fighting over who is the caddy or is it ghillie? Wllie Rennie can carry the champers.
      What a photo opportunity to show what a complete farce this UK is.

    18. HandandShrimp says:

      £25,000 10 years ago and these these Muppets think it is a story? I suppose if you are already at the bottom of the barrel you have to scrape.

      The Tory MSP angst about the SNP tax position is in my opinion actually a good thing for the SNP. It makes it rather hard for Kezia to pretend that the SNP are following the Tory line on tax and consequently keeps the centre and centre left ground firmly under the SNP wing.

      Murdo is a complete ultra maroon gem though. If he didn’t exist we would have to ask Greg Moodie to create one for us. 🙂

    19. Tackety Beets says:

      I have known many Western Isle folk over the years and what struck me many years ago was that many are called by their First & 2nd name so If he was living there Mr Trump would probably be know as “Donald John” or even “DJ”

      Bob Mack
      I just played AM & whilst discussing the papers ,Piers Morgan states “whilst very decisive , very polarising we know that he is also an Anglophile he loves this country, he thinks he is half British …..”
      “Anglophile” ach aa know loves England or UK …… For me just sounded so wrong.

      For those who MAY have missed it ,TM failed to deny her knowledge of the test firing of NUK which went very wrong whilst TM argued in Parliament to renew Trident.

    20. Tackety Beets says:

      Sorry Hamish, were were typing at same time…… 20 min lag etc

    21. 16,300? I didn’t realise that there were that many dentists’ waiting rooms in Scotland.
      Let’s hope that the MSM continue to provide easily refutable nonsense like this.
      So this is where the Scottish Branch of the Tories have been hiding; deep in the English Establishment’s Dead Tree Undergrowth.
      Oh. look, dawn broke again this morning. Who’d have thunk?
      Keep it up, Stu.

    22. heedtracker says:

      Hamish100 says:
      22 January, 2017 at 11:18 am
      Piers Stefan Pughe-Morgan well know Irishman of the Irish Republic ( Piers Morgan to you or me) on the Marr show promoting Trump.
      Morgan pontificates Trump loves this country.

      Watching tory BBC led UK media endlessly bullshit us that Trump loves PM May’s Brexit UK, is probably an even greater deluded fraud than their No more refs for you because you said once in a gen.

      Its more than likely that the Brexit City is about to move to Wall Street for starters, under Pres Trump freed up capitalism, for the people.

    23. Chitterinlicht says:

      I used to buy newspapers.

      Now i just donate the money to Wings and joined he SNP.

    24. panda paws says:

      It’s called paltering – using the (partial) truth to create a misleading impression. It’s dangerous because if you are found out, it’s treated just the same as an outright lie. You just need to expose it which is why British Nationalists hate blogs like this one!

      https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/01/11/paltering-feels-less-bad-than-lying-but-will-cost-you-in-the-long-run/

    25. galamcennalath says:

      Hamish100 says:

      …well know Irishman of the Irish Republic ( Piers Morgan to you or me) …. Anglophile…. Surely Trump’s mum was more Celtic than Anglo-Saxon …

      I noticed that. It reminded me of a similar statement on TV, many years ago, by some ignoramus describing Bob Geldorf as Anglo-Saxon. Highly unlikely, I would have thought.

      It’s like the American WASP categorisation. White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. That grouping are undoubtedly Caucasus and of Protestant religion, but I hae ma doots that many are Anglo-Saxon.

      Most English aren’t Anglo-Saxon, genetics tell us. However, the context most often used will be cultural. Even at that, you couldn’t describe a lassie like Mary Anne MacLeod from the Isle of Lewis as culturally Anglo-Saxon.

    26. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Typo in the para about political observer. ” atricle”

    27. Effijy says:

      UK Media is a death spiral that they have no wish to stop.

      Truth, Facts, and a comprehensive picture of the Full story are all components that have been abandoned in order to ensure the UK Elite continue their 52 consecutive years of widening the gap between rich and poor.

      The Red, and Blue, Tories are all very well rewarded for maintaining the status quo, where we have a sea of tax avoidance loop holes to keep a steady flow of filthy lucre away from the treasury and of course the ordinary tax payer.

      I seek some help here in order to qualify what I find in a very wide circle of family, friends, and business contacts. I say that “Middle” Scotland does not earn enough to pay Tax at 40%!

      I cut and paste a Headline from the Daily Mail:

      “Nine out of ten Scots ‘are a burden on the state’ (and that’s the suggestion of Scotland’s Tory leader)”

      Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214477/Nine-Scottish-households-benefits-pay-tax.html#ixzz4WUOUBW99.

      And so if you are still stupid enough to believe a word the Daily Hail, or the Kim Jong-in look-a-like, says, we would have 90% of Scots not even paying their way, and I would propose that no more than 2 or 3% of the remaining 10% of Scots reach the 40% tax bracket?

      In summary, are the UK’s Rabid Reporters suggesting that
      up to 3% of Scots are to be known as Middle Scotland who are about to face financial hardship in an attempt to rescue the 25% of Scottish Children who live in poverty?

      If that very small number above were then to assess what they saved by having Free University education for their children, “free” prescriptions, free bridge tolls, free
      Hospital Car Parking, and having an NHS that is just about working, would they for one moment feel like packing up and moving down South into a dysfunctional fascist state?

    28. James says:

      I’m amused that the Sunday Times went with a headline on the Peter de Vink story that “Sturgeon is worse than Thatcher” given that in a 1990 profile in The Herald a friend of de Vink’s is quoted as saying

      “He is very political. He says he would die for Margaret Thatcher.”

      I wonder why he changed his mind. It’s obvious from the profile that he enjoys being close to people in financial and political power, but is apparently also bit of
      “an unguided missile” too.

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/11939100.High_flying_Dutchman_who_puts_flamboyance_into_finance/

    29. Corrado Mella says:

      I wonder if the Reverend Campbell should simply stop giving a flying f***k, as most of Scots do nowadays.

      Red top rags sell by abysmal figures (thousands) and are wasting the whole front page in cubital letters so people can read the shit they print from the obligatory bargepole distance.

      Other sublime waste of good trees are a tad more subtle, but they can hear the ping of the heart monitor they’re attached to going fainter and slower.

      Some have flatlined already, and are disappearing up other zombie papers’ arse – or “merging”.

      Listenership and viewership of State controlled Radio & TV and their propaganda has collapsed and is cowering in a corner of Pacific Quay.

      There’s such a vacuum in genuine Scottish Mass Media that it’s shredding the last tatters of this stupid, insane union from its insides, like the rot kills the tree from its roots.

      While there is a small pebble of balanced news from two newspapers, to counterbalance the amount of FUD flung by the desperate castaways on the HMS Project Fear floatsom we need similarly scathing, shouty, enraged, outraged news thrown back at them to overload their tatty rafts and sink them for good.

      We need an all-out Objective Truth campaign to start right now, take the lead and let the belittlers of Scotland to try to catch up in its wake.

      That’s how Project Fear gripped the mind of our most vulnerable for their Phyrric 2014 win, overloading them with information they couldn’t immediately verify and putting us on the backfoot with the difficult task of debunking their lies and spread the correct information.

      It’s no secret that the Rev’s Big Blue Book got us out of a few spots and pushed Indy support up, but it was a reactive action, not a proactive push.

      Let’s start now firing the shots. Sink the HMS Project Fear II in the harbour.

    30. DerekM says:

      Well jings would you look at that a yoon zoomer fake news collaboration.

      lol yea some of those tory business men got a fright when they thought they could buy oor Eck and found out they could not.

    31. Vestas says:

      @ Corrado Mella 11:52am :

      “Red top rags sell by abysmal figures”

      Indeed they do but the problem is that the BBC uses the print media to show that BBC Shortbread (& the rest too) is “unbiased”.

      So you can dismiss the print media in Scotland if you wish (most people don’t read it), however the elephant in the room – BBC Shortbread uses them as the basis for being “unbiased”.

      Such is the state of broadcasting/media in the UK…..

    32. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      Accurate Scottish news.

      In 2014 the Labour party in Scotland were the tories useful idiots.

      In 2017 the Labour part in Scotland are the tories useless idiots.

    33. Dr Jim says:

      Every other country in the world is better than Scotland
      Even the Galapagos tortoises are more financially sound than us
      Pick a country any country, they’re just all better and we’re losers spongers whingers and drunks

      On a more favourable note Kevin Pringle says Indyref2 will be Yes, and he said it with confidence

    34. liz says:

      Re use of language.

      BBC radio the morning stated that US did not vote against Israel’s expansion, which was a convoluted of saying, they ‘abstained’.

    35. Black Joan says:

      Great work, as ever, Rev.

      May failed four times to answer, when Marr asked if she knew (in July when Westminster voted to spend zillions on renewal of the UK’s WMDs) about the failed Trident test (in June).

      Then a cock could be heard crowing.

      She also referred to “our Trident”, as if by cosy analogy with “our” NHS.

    36. Doug McG says:

      No more or less than I would expect from tenement Scots , frankly.

    37. Corrado Mella at 11.52

      I’d love to be able to produce hundreds of leaflet titled “The Half-Wit Factor” because that is all we now have to beat

    38. HandandShrimp says:

      Struggling to post or get Wings to refresh this morning.

    39. Capella says:

      @ Tackety Beets – that’s because all of the men in the Western Isles are called Donald McLeod.
      Mary McLeod’s son is called Donald and if born in Lewis would probably have a surname McLeod. But his dad was of German descent so it’s Donald J Trumpf.

    40. Robert Peffers says:

      It all gets more laughable by the day.
      Yesterday the Westminster Establishment supported MSM including BBC Radio Shortbreid were talking about Sir Andy Murray as No.1 seed to win the Australian Open and today it’s just plain Andy Murray knocked out by an almost unknown.

      Then we have Rooth the mooth making daft claims about how Scottish people are a drain on the state of a Westminster that is the de facto parliament of the country of England.

      Yet wee fat Roothie has overlooked, and probably more from sheer bloody idiocy rather than by deliberate attempt to mislead, that they do not pay in enough personal tax to cover what they get subsidised by the State of the YooKay.

      Trouble is that nowadays the main burden of taxation has long been by indirect taxation – that is tax paid on purchases of good and services. It has long NOT been by PAYE and other tax on personal incomes.

      Thus even those not normally thought of as taxpayers actually, directly or indirectly, either pay tax such as VAT, or have tax paid on goods or services on their behalf.

      An unborn baby has tax paid for them as the parents buy goods or services in preparation for the birth. Dead people pay tax for the services to cremate or bury them.

      Indirect tax includes Road Fuel Duty and, even if you do not own a vehicle, public transport passes on to the passengers the costs of indirect taxation.

      Direct taxation is of little importance but Roothie does not understand that simple truth.

    41. Tackety Beets says:

      Cheers Capella ,

      I have found John Robert MacLeod when referred to in conversation ,would be know as John Robbie and his brother may be registered as Robert John MacLeod and be known as Robbie John hence my assertion Mr Trump would be referred to as Donald John . Hey ho Trump and the MSM etc seam to favour “The Donald”

      The rest of us will probably settle on a less respectful reference…. Smiley fing

    42. Ken500 says:

      The immigrant Royal family German, Greek and Scottish. Trump German, Scottish and Slovakian. Migrants.

      US is the most protectionist trade country in the world. US multinationals evade tax and illegally pay no tax worldwide.

      Trump is on recorded of not supporting illegal Iraqi invasions. Or Banker fraud.

      Thatcher and Regan deregulated world banking. Causing the Banking crash. Causing Trump to lose $Millions.

    43. Brian Powell says:

      I was talking to a left leaning Brexiter, who thought they had been lied to by Brexit politicians to vote for Brexit, but is now furious about everything and anything that Nicola Sturgeon, and saying there is nothing ordinary people can do about Brexit!

      An interesting example of the Strange, this person constantly referenced Scotland’s great industrial and engineering past, and why can’t we still do this, but then became furious at the SG for building the Queensferry crossing road bridge.

      Then I noticed the Scottish Daily Express beside their seat.

    44. Capella says:

      Re the crowds at Trump’s inauguration – BBC published the picture comparing the two events (Obama and Trump) which appears to show a very sparse crowd at Trump’s. Also, there are large tents and marquees filling up the space at the Washington memorial in the Trump photo, and so reducing the possible numbers.
      https://archive.is/5HZUm

      However, if you look at Reuter’s pictures of the crowds during Trump’s speech, it looks a good deal more crowded. So perhaps the photos were taken at different times during the ceremony.

      See photos 5 and 18 which show the crowd from nearer the angle of the podium. Photo 14 shows the Lucas Jackson photo the BBC published (cropped to omit the marquees beneath the Washington memorial).

      http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/the-inauguration-of-donald-trump?articleId=USRTSWH69

      Is it possible the media would mislead the public?

      I’m no fan of Donald Trump but I too suspect the media of “spin” when they want to manipulate the public perception. Better to criticise on policy. It’s bad enough.

    45. Robert Peffers says:

      Here’s a strange wee truth. We get, for example, Muslim refugees fleeing to Scotland and being housed and made welcome in, say, Glasgow.

      They join a long historic line including the Jews legally banned by the Kingdom of England centuries ago, Italians on several different time scales, Free French, Poles and so on during WWII and so on.

      Within, at most, a generation these families become Glaswegians but may still follow their family as to some religious and some family culture. They consider themselves Scots and most Scots born people accept them as Scots.

      There are, though, exceptions.

      Irish Immigrant families from both North and South Ireland have been in Scotland for centuries but many, even born here, still follow, or even Follow! Follow! their old nationalities and cause sectarian or political trouble in Scotland.

      Many Anglos also remain English forevermore and usually bitterly complain that they are abused for being so. They just seem unable to assimilate or to realise they are the ones not assimilating but expect Scots to become anglos or Irish, to fit in with them. I have cousins around my own age who are more Irish orientated than Scots. These had a Scottish father and an Irish mother and are Scottish born.

    46. galamcennalath says:

      Brian Powell says:

      … a left leaning Brexiter, who thought they had been lied to by Brexit politicians …

      Some people just struggle to understand how society, the world, and politics around them works.

      Is it any surprise when they get contradictory views thrown at them continually? It would be fine if it were two sides putting forward their opinions and arguments. However entities like the Express push utter garbage as fact and it a lot of people will find it difficult to see where the truth lies.

      We’ve seen people interviewed about Trump and Brexit and you just have to cringe at the views some supporters come out with. Basically, they have believed some of the lies they have been told.

      Education, information, and people talking to people. It’s the only way to bypass the propagandists and their manipulative agendas.

      However there are always going to be those who never understand. We just need to hope enough do so the right choices are made.

      There are a lot of reasons why Scotland voted remain and England voted leave, but I would like to think it is part because Scotland’s now has a more politically aware and engaged public. We still have a ways to go, though.

    47. I note Kevin McKenna is exhorting us all to stop bashing his colleagues, as this is counter productive in the struggle for Independence. He reveals that there are ‘hundreds’ of pro Independence journos.
      Mmm
      Can he name one? Just one, who doesn’t work on the National.
      Kevin (Top o’ the mornin’ to you, btw) I know that you read WoS, WGD, Grouse Beater, Bella, Bateman, and so many other excellent e journals.
      It is without a doubt the only medium producing balance in Scotland these days.
      Perhaps the ‘silent hundreds’ will start to write the truth, instead of attaching ‘will say’ to the latest Blue Yellow and Red Tory handout.
      Stu Campbell is required reading these days; I suspect that’s what gets on your colleagues’ tits.
      We now have a limitless Open Forum, and access to an infinite database, at our fingertips.
      Newspapers and TV cannot possibly compete with the age of the internet.
      I admire your pluck in sticking up for the hacks nevertheless.

    48. Croompenstein says:

      Scrap Trident petition.. at 23,360 so far

      http://www.snp.org/scraptrident

    49. heedtracker says:

      Capella says:
      22 January, 2017 at 1:27 pm
      Re the crowds at Trump’s inauguration –

      Its less that Capella and much more the bizarre press conference the new administration press spokesman gave, telling the US press what to say, where they were wrong and then blatantly threatened.

      This is CNN, in Darth Vader voice.

      http://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/01/21/sean-spicer-entire-defends-inauguration-crowd-size-sot.cnn

    50. heedtracker says:

      This is CNN, in Darth Vader voice.

      And that dude Spicer’s clearly enraged too, over the size of the Trump crowd. That’s all, their crowd size. Its easy to generalise but if this is day 2 of the Trump creep show, and they do have giant FOX, Murdoch boosting, all day every day across the US too.

      What are they going to do, arrest and try US journos?

    51. Hamish100 says:

      Capella -I’m no fan of Donald Trump— Honestly.

      Capella the big green bits in Washington DC was an absence of people with the brass neck to say they supported Trump. Not surprising really since more millions voted against him than gave him support.
      However the massive crowds against Trumps “values” were obviously pasted in from the Obama inauguration. -not.

    52. heedtracker says:

      Thought crime USA?

      https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-thought-police-57891

      Its not as if the USA is in the midst of a civil war, let alone 60’s style revolutions. US crimes the lowest ever, mainly due to massive sentencing,employment at highest ever, economy booming thanks to Obama.

      The tory style lunatics are back in charge of America. At least their hard core Cons whack jobs can launch a nuke missile accurately?

    53. Liz White says:

      What those people who are coming out with Nicola is focusing on Brexit and another referendum instead of domestic issues and focusing on the day job is that it is that it is Westminster and the Tories that have set the agenda by breaking every referendum promise and then dragging us out of the EU.

      If Brexit hadn’t happened and the promises had been kept we would be busy setting up our federal country and putting the wheels in motion to take Scotland forward.

      The Tories gave the Uk a referendum on the EU as well as reneging on all the promises of 2014 we are being dragged into a situation we didn’t vote for on both occasions and they are very important issues that have to be dealt with.

      So no she is not focusing on independence and Brexit to avoid the day job she has been fighting since 2014 for the promised vow and now Brexit is thrown into the mix she has another battle to fight.

    54. Roger Hyam says:

      Surely if they are using a template Wings could use a response template and be totally automated. Careful Rev or you’ll be out of a job. Perhaps you already are a bot! Have you checked?

    55. Cairnallochy says:

      Why not offer the full Tory package – raise thresholds but remove entitlement to free university tuitions, free prescriptions and free personal care, for all those benefiting from the increase in threshold ?

      Tongue in cheek I confess but would love to hear the response of Ruth & co.

    56. Capella says:

      @ Heedtracker – probably more an instant rebuttal team, like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair had.

      Nearer home – many commenteers insist the SNP should be tougher on the Press and call out their lies. I think the Trump farce shows the danger of politicians sounding too totalitarian. The media can spin anything anyway.

      However, fact checking is always useful. Something journalists could do when they have the time.

    57. Fearchar says:

      Very much reminiscent of the “news” produced by Chinese media. Here’s an insight into how it works:
      http://fareasternpotato.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/china-intensifies-disinformation.html

    58. heedtracker says:

      Capella says:
      22 January, 2017 at 2:16 pm
      @ Heedtracker – probably more an instant rebuttal team, like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair had.

      Not from Day 2 Capella. Blair’s man Alistair whatsisface really only went thought police mental after the Iraq invasion, when the grand olde tory press starting not backing tory Blair. Thatcher had a ferocious goon from Yorkshire Bernard Ingham, another boot boy of the right.

      Anyway, let them say and do whatever they like, in their UKOK press rooms here. If freedom of speech is put under any kind of pressure, sites like WoS are shut down, at the flick of a court order.

      Look at the assorted unionist roasters in Holyrood alone, raging away at the one party state of Scotland.

      “Scotland’s like under Stalin, back in the Russian times,” they bleat.

    59. Capella says:

      @ Hamish100 – Yes. I regard Trump as a vulgar bully with worrying fascist tendencies and I have said so more than once on Wings. But the media do themselves no favours using inconclusive “evidence” that can be easily challenged.
      They could criticise his policies to better effect.

      Prof. Richard Wolff’s January update does just that and is very instructive.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4gPXvW3DG4

      Pictures of crowds with no timestamp just look petty.

    60. heedtracker says:

      Pictures of crowds with no timestamp just look petty.

      Hey, from day 1 of Obama admin, a lunatic like Trump was given the world stage to tell us all the President of the United States of America and leader of the free world, was a fraud, that he was NOT an American and even worse, on planet Trump, Obama was a Muslim.

      This is CNN, in Darth Vader voice,

      http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/15/politics/donald-trump-obama-birther-united-states/

    61. Meg merrilees says:

      Finally, 15 and a half hours after the story broke last night, the BBC has put an item about the Trident test failure on the BBC Scotland website.

      That was breathtakingly quick!

      23,567 on the SNP scrap trident petition now.
      http://www.snp.org/scraptrident

    62. Capella says:

      @ Heedtracker – my recollection is that New Labour early on copied the Clinton tactics, one of which was “instant rebuttal”. See Renewal article from 2003 by Gordon Carera:

      Some of the tactics were borrowed directly – the staged confrontation with left-wing and minority groups to differentiate the new from the old in the public mind. There was also the permanent campaign and its workshop – the war room, rapid response units, the cult of the media cycle. The arrival of Excalibur in Millbank was clearly a product of Phillip Gould’s observations on how the Clinton war room operated – instant rebuttal using facts, rather than just rhetorical rebuttals. It is telling that Gould and Hewitt’s article ends with a long moan against the state of Walworth Road and the lack of space or modern facilities.

      http://renewal.org.uk/articles/new-labours-love-affair-with-the-new-democrats

    63. Clapper57 says:

      Trump wants to see EU fall . Why ? Because an isolated country will be easier to exploit. I hope European people whose country are part of the EU think long and hard about the consequences of leaving the EU and the potential for a Trump’s ‘America first’ administration exploiting their isolation to ensure ‘America first’ is the winner in any trade deals. Now more than ever they need to be stronger together to resist Trump the dictator who represents anything but Freedom .

      This is a president who is suppressing those who dare to challenge , question and criticise him which is akin to a dictatorship . His autocratic agenda is defined by ‘if it is against me then it’s fake’ and this is how the right wing are casting doubt on the gullible by misrepresenting the validity of information as an untruth which allows them to continue to manipulate and control .

      Theresa’s Britain is going to be Trump’s ‘America First’ bitch and her country, not mine, is in this position because they allowed the bigots to dictate via the right wing fake protectionists. There is no sentiment or moral compass when you are up shit creek without a paddle and needs must that you find yourself in such a desperate position , isolated and thus swallowing your pride, and so May and her ‘Great Britain’ holds onto a begging bowl and must kneel at the feet of the despicable megalomaniac that is Trump.

      That Scotland should be dragged into this against it’s will is par for the course as long as we are chained and bound by a disunited kingdom that panders only to one nation whose population size dictates the direction in which the other nations must go. This is NOT democracy and we should be brave . I for one do not want to be aligned to a Trump ‘America First ‘ who will impose and control . In Brexit it will be ‘England First’ of that I have no doubts and that is why people who live in Scotland need to think long and hard about where we are headed and with whom we are heading.

      The so called ‘special relationship’ *BigFeckinCough* Britain has with America took us into an illegal war where the guilty ones still walk free while the innocent are still burdened with the ongoing tragic consequences .

      Enough is enough . If Scotland does not seize the day in the next Independence referendum then we are fcuked and that is the truth and no amount of fake unionist news can embellish the reality of what will be.

      I beseech any person who is a doubter to open their eyes as the lunatics are trying to take over and their world is not a world that Scotland should be part of now or in the future.

      To the the English people who are not deceived by the fake patriots , I hope they can rise up and resist the evil that is trying to penetrate their society , because it is the future generations who will have to suffer the consequences of their inaction if they do not act now. They should adopt the mantra ‘Not in my name’ to those who are trying to poison all that is good , kind and decent in a humane and civil society .

      Beware false prophets who present the ugly side of division because in the context of fighting against the extreme right it will be ‘Divided we fall together we stand’.

      So let’s just talk about and concentrate on the SNP and TAX while potentially the world is about to descend into chaos is THE problem we should all recognise as being one of the reasons the extreme right are winning the argument and convincing some of those who are so willingly gullible and deluded.

      Thankfully my eyes are open and I see a bigger picture than the ‘gentlemen and ladies’ of the press who are parochial in their vision in order to achieve their unionist agenda.

      Fiddle…..Rome…..Burn.

    64. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Unfortunately @ Liz White says at 2:09 pm

      “What those people who are coming out with Nicola is focusing on Brexit and another referendum instead of domestic issues and focusing on the day job”

      This is their response to the bullshit being fed to them daily via the MSM and BBC in Scotland, Westminster and the Establishments propaganda which hasn’t stopped since September 2014.

      Make no mistake about it, this is the ongoing Unionist tactic to get a ‘mid term, protest vote’ boost for The Ruthenfuhrer and her “No Surrender to Referendums Pary” at the Local Elections in May this year.

      If they achieve this they will then spin the result into an “SNP support has peaked” and “there is No appetite for Indy Ref2”.

      Any Unionist Council will also control the Ballot Boxes in the event of Indy Ref 2.

      Make no mistake it is “Save the Union or bust” time for them following the result of the Brexit vote in June 2016.

    65. Thepnr says:

      Now here’s the thing that concerns me. It’s called Jim Sillars, there are many like him that the Mail, Times or Express love to quote. Ex SNP leader or Ex SNP adviser doesn’t matter who they are but they are always available to stick the boot in.

      Yes Scotland, what a fecking joke that became, they updated their website and it became an absolute mess of mothers kissing baby pictures, no facts whatsoever on real issues or articles debunking the Better Together propaganda.

      Where was the McCrone report, where were the articles on Tory cuts and it’s effect on the Barnett formula? Nowhere to be seen. That really pissed me off at the time. I couldn’t believe the new updated website just before the referendum, it went backwards. It was sabotage and purposely meant to reduce the impact of the Yes vote. I hope those responsible for the vandalism are now out of the Yes movement so as they can do no more damage.

      We have our government paid trolls on websites everywhere though not just Wings which just about manages to keep them at bay unlike the Herald or Scotsman comments pages which are despicable but in the main these are just your usual true blue yoons and not government sponsored. They don’t need to be.

      However we certainly do have these Ex SNP this or that who are just paid trolls too or have an allegiance to the UK through some favour in the past, if they didn’t exist the shitty front page headlines of the Times wouldn’t exist. So go figure.

      You need to listen carefully at what these “supporters” of Independence are quoted as saying in order to create an SNP BAD headline. The ones I am talking of are the true Uncle Toms, when did you last see Dennis Canavan quoted in an SNP BAD article or come to that in ANY article. The likes of Canavan have no voice because they have not been bought and paid for!

      The establishment have their placemen throughout the Yes movement, know this and make your judgments accordingly. Their manipulation is of the sleekit kind, your just meant not to notice

    66. Fred says:

      Very large influx of English tradesmen into Glasgow during the industrial boom, up to the Great War & whereas the Irish of both camps, the Italians & the Jews, kept their identity to some extent, the English disappeared in a generation. No Morris Dancing or St George’s clubs survived. The only clues to their presence are their surnames & former Episcopal/Methodist Churches, now mostly adapted to other uses.

    67. heedtracker says:

      Capella says:
      22 January, 2017 at 2:48 pm
      @ Heedtracker – my recollection is that New Labour early on copied the Clinton tactics,

      But, but, but Clinton’s press sec was not on the podium there openly threatening the US press on Day 2 was he/she?

      Its just going to be like the Clinton/Bush swing to the right. Just like Bush, Trump takes over a strong economy but he will leave it devastated, burdened with giant, an even richer super rich elite, like him and he’ll hold his own very hot war, far enough away from the USA though. I’d guess N Korea is their primary target, and scare the Chinese, over Taiwan in particular.

      Bush also inherited a strong US economy from Clinton and a very low US national debt too. A huge debt that had been run up by the Bush seniors crew, who also got even richer. And ofcourse Bush jnr left America with another colossal debt and a devastated middle east.

      The right are maniacs, here in teamGB and even worse over across the pond.

    68. Muscleguy says:

      I must profess myself disappointed that no scribblers have been in touch as several times online I have admitted to not voting SNP with either of my votes in the last Holyrood election.

      Come on boys and girls I’m here for the quoting. My wife who regularly accuses me of being an SNP fanboi (I am wont to defend them from calumnies and false statements you see) will doubtless find that my not voting for them (I remind her of this when so accused) is news to be a great surprise.

    69. heedtracker says:

      Fred says:
      22 January, 2017 at 3:01 pm
      Very large influx of English tradesmen into Glasgow during the industrial boom,

      Vice versa too. Huge numbers of Glasgow steel workers move to London for munitions jobs, and that is why we now have

      http://www.arsenal.com/home

      Glaswegian club, in London toon.

    70. Muscleguy says:

      OTOH I have a lottery ticket I haven’t checked yet. Will the boys and girls of the press be interested in my not voting SNP if I suddenly find I’m loaded?

    71. bjsalba says:

      @Thepnr

      I was quoted what Jim Sillars had said and I found the following response effective.

      “Do you realize that it is over quarter of a century since Jim Sillars was deputy leader of the party?

      If they are a Tory ask who was Deputy leader in the Tory Party when he was Deputy Leader.

    72. Dr Jim says:

      Trump and Putin squeeze the EU is that not what it’s about or have I missed something

      Where did cringing Theresa May get the bottle to threaten the EU with a walk off and lowering corporation tax to start a trade war unless the Donald told her she’d better get on board with the plan, the Trump plan

      Only days ago she was still skittering around like the headless chicken she is, now all of a sudden she’s smirky
      This woman has no bottle of her own she’s a lightweight and if Scotland can’t see it we’ll be back to the days of the barren wasteland we used to inhabit in the good old days of both sets of Tories

      Watch the seas and skies for the Americans driving all around us showing us who’s really in charge of England and it’s colonies

      Worthless Scotlands coastline has just become really really important once again

    73. galamcennalath says:

      Meg merrilees says:

      23,567 on the SNP scrap trident petition now.
      http://www.snp.org/scraptrident

      Scotland needs to have its voice heard on this one. Signed!

      23,664 now

    74. David says:

      Sillars, as we all know, was a strong supporter of YES in 2014 despite the high or at least 50/50 possibility that we would remain in the EU after independence. If he is now genuinely backing that we remain with Theresa May and the Tories that should definitely put him permanently in the long grass whatever the outcome of indy2. I want to remain in the EU but my biggest overriding priority is independence for Scotland and I will support that whatever the likely EU status it might deliver us. I think and I hope Sillars is a bit smarter and a bit more pragmatic than he appears to be in this article but we’ll certainly find out in due course.

    75. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ah, David Torrance, the ‘expert’ who holds beliefs that conflict with the principles of his scientific training. A man who’s opinion it is prudent to ignore before he expresses it.

    76. Muscleguy says:

      OT I’ve just been over to Prof John Robertson’s Thoughtcontrolscotland site. He is giving you a run for your money in terms of deconstructing the media spin. He does concentrate on the TV news, especially BBC Scotland. But he is a doing a spiffing job of it.

      He reckons the bean counters at STV have taken the sensible commercial decision not to actively piss off and drive away half the population and hence reduce their advertising spend. Certainly I have found STV’s Scotland news to be very balanced and fair and they interview Yes people unashamedly and fairly. I must make an effort to watch more often. If I catch it on catchup will they notice it more?

      Either way having both of you deconstructing the Scottish media makes it harder for the unionists to divide and rule. They have to monster both of you and constantly too.

      But not slacking Rev. You are still needed.

    77. Mike says:

      Lots of media interviews bringing up the false claims that Scotland exports 64% of its entire export potential to the rUK. Claiming the destination of these exports is the rUK.

      http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication

      You have to go right to the very bottom of the document to see the truth.

      “REST OF UK EXPORTS ACCOUNT FOR 64% OF ALL EXPORTS FROM SCOTLAND (INTERNATIONAL AND RUK COMBINED)”

      That’s means the 64% figure attributed as export trade from Scotland to rUK is in fact inclusive of trade export in transit to destination outwith the UK including the EU.
      So clearly the rUK is not Scotlands biggest export market at all.

      So why do members of the Scottish Government not point this out during their interviews instead of blindly agreeing with ever figure statistic and claim coming out of Westminster and its quangos?
      Perhaps and FOI is needed to break down the actual export details of the 64% between what stays within the rUK and how much passes through to International destinations.
      I bet the rUK destined exports are less than 20%. It would make sense if it were less than 10%

    78. Capella says:

      But, but, but Clinton’s press sec was not on the podium there openly threatening the US press on Day 2 was he/she?

      I’ve no idea – but probably not. Don’t think Clinton was a bully, many other faults though. Also the USA has a First Amendment upholding freedom of speech and of the Press. Bit of an obstacle to Trump if he attempts to close it down. We, on the other hand, have no constitution let alone a first amendment.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

      The right are maniacs, here in teamGB and even worse over across the pond.
      Agreed 🙂

    79. Ken500 says:

      The US has the biggest debt ratio in the world. Over $20Trillion. It is the 2nd most unequal society. 50% of the debt is held by China and Japan.

      The UK is the most unequal. With the second highest debt.

      Obamacare was/is similar to the Poll tax but more.

      Many households could not afford it. $5,000 a year. 20% of (gross) average household income. The equivalent of £5,000 a year in the UK. Plus 10% (payroll) tax. Plus progressive (State) tax. Plus paying mortgage, rent, nursery schooling, uni education. + healthcare insurance. Approx Average household income $51,000 a year. Average wage $44,000.

      Average household payment Obamacare e.g. 2 adults + 2 children? = $15,000?

      There are small (tax?) rebates for those on below average income/earning. Red tape and burocracy.

      Another public Medicare scheme. For States taking part. It also is in $Billions of deficit.

      The US average income has declined over the last ten years. Stagnation. Same as the UK.

    80. Big Jock says:

      We know the press are run by Tory Millionaires. So I have no problem with the attacking Scotland. That’s what Tories do.

      However my real beef is with the so called Scottish journalists who allow the abuse. They take the money and leave their scruples at the front door. These journalists qre lying scumbags. They betray their own nation on a daily basis working for the English establishment. People like Torrance and Cochrane are willing self hammers. They hate Scotland and don’t let them pretend otherwise. When abroad most people are proud of their home country. But these guys just self harm in the hope of pleasing their masters. The kind of guys who pretend they support England at football to please their company if they are outnumbered. Very odd people brainwashed and self loathing.

    81. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Totally agree @ Big Jock says at 3:52 pm

      The problem these ‘journalists’ have is that we the electorate have seen through their lies and are now actively calling them out and attempting to hold them to account as soon as their drivel is published.

      They don’t like it and see it as an attack on their status, their perceived position in society as the arbiters of truth which harks back to the past.

      It is very simple:

      If they are not impartial or objective

      If they publish unquestioned Political Party Press releases

      If they omit salient facts or comparative facts/statistic

      If they think a freedom of information request equals investigative journalism

      If they use Front line services like the SNHS, Police and Fire Brigade to attack the Scottish Government without mentioning Westminster Unionist backed cuts to Scotland’s budget

      If they are the BBC

      THEN THEY ARE PROPAGANDISTS, NOT JOURNALISTS, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

      They all know that the establishment won’t require them to denigrate Scotland to keep the natives too scared of becoming independent once we are.

      They also all know they will be as employable in an iScotland as William Joyce would have been in Post WWII London.

      So they rail against those of us who know what game they are playing and won’t accept it any more.

      These “supposedly beleaguered journalists” complain not in the name of freedom of speech but in the name of their own personal financial liquidity.

    82. Ken500 says:

      Scotland exports and imports (without Westminster negative interference) are relatively equal.

      The rest of the UK imports vastly outweighs the exports resulting in a massive of balance of trade deficit.

      Clinton was a serial abuser (young women) Many reported cover up. Kennedy was a serial womaniser. While giving a false impression of an upright family man. Cover up. So was his brother (Bobby) Implicated in the Marilyn Munroe suicide. Reagan deregulated the world banking system causing the Banking crash. Nixon was a crook. Bush, Obama and Clinton are murdering warmongers. Totally out of touch. Cover up.

    83. Proud Cybernat says:

      So, the SNP are not concentrating on the day job, the Yoonatics screech.

      Were that accusation true then the SNP Government would not have achieved a fraction of this:

      http://www.snp.org/record

      And the SNP Government’s list of achievements continues to grow.

    84. Ken500 says:

      The mad cow disease cost Scottish exports. There was a (UK) beef foodstuff’s ban by many world countries. EU 10 year ban.16 years by Russia. It started in the US but (reported) affected the UK. It also affected medical products. (Bird flu). Encouraged veggie industry.

    85. Legerwood says:

      Capella says:
      22 January, 2017 at 2:37 pm

      “”Pictures of crowds with no timestamp just look petty.””
      ……

      I watched the broadcast of the inauguration from 4pm our time onwards on BBC and it could be clearly seen that the crowds on the Mall did not fill the available space.

      The BBC’s commentary box showed the Mall in the background and at no time were the areas assigned for spectators close to being full.

      The vehicle procession taking the President and President-elect from the White House to the Capitol was also covered and it was quite obvious that there were few if any people lining the route. The servicemen and women lining the route faced the procession and the policemen behind them faced the , empty, pavements.

      All of that could be seen as it happened and there were comments made about that during the course of the broadcast.

      Mr Trump has said there was a huge turnout when there clearly was not therefore the media are right to point that out. He has form when it comes to denying reality.

    86. Gary45% says:

      Who cares what the “Queens Fart” says, this is why demand for news?papers is disappearing faster than “snaw of a dyke”.
      As far as “Sturgeon being worse than Thatcher” methinks the man has been quaffing too much claret. I thought the idea of centralising control was to make better use of over stretched resources that have had funding slashed by the English controlled Westminster government.
      As far as I can see the SNP are the ONLY party who are successfully bailing out a ship that is sinking, without them it would be glug glug.
      UK “quality” press?.
      NAW

    87. Ken500 says:

      The Sunday Times (Murdoch Fake Fox/SKy News) Non Dom tax evader, issues a reminder for a donation to the SNP. The war chest coffers. Top up. Aye and his kids are half Scottish. Round and round it goes.

    88. liz says:

      Think the SNP don’t debunk the ‘export to England’ figs is because no-one can get hold of the actual details and they last thing they want is to be accused of lying.

      However the ‘imports from England’ have as much veracity as ‘exports to England’, which I think is why Joanna Cherry felt comfortable stating that they export more to us than vice versa.

      Today on twitter, however,Andrew Neil is saying this fig, England to Scotland , is not true. So more post truth etc .

      Dr Craig Dalzell says he is looking into trying to get accurate figs, so hopefully this will show up soon.

      Getting really pissed off again at the BritNats setting the conversation which we then have to react to

    89. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. President Trump and the EU. It might help local interpretation if you check out Trumps hidden sponsors, who personify Big Oil, frankly.

      Koch Network Raised $400 Million In 2012 Elections. The Washington Post reported that the Koch-backed political network, including groups such as Americans for Prosperity and the American Energy Alliance, raised over $400 million for the 2012 elections, and that its “resources and breadth” make it “singular in American politics”:

      http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/08/27/myths-and-facts-about-the-koch-brothers/200570

      This isn’t the first time Farage and other Brexit campaigners have visited the US to talk shop. Exactly one year ago Farage delivered a speech to the Heritage Foundation in Washington D.C. where he made the case for the US to support Brexit.

      Prior to that in March 2015 ahead of the UK general election, the Heritage Foundation hosted former environment secretary and climate science denier Owen Paterson who also called for the US to back Britain’s “new global role” outside of the EU.

      And while it may be easy to laugh off as ridiculous Lord Christopher Monckton’s calls for Texas to ‘Texit’, under the surface there appears to be a growing alliance between the Koch- and Exxon-funded American think tanks and Britain’s prominent pro-Brexit politicians and organisations.

      https://www.desmogblog.com/2016/07/19/koch-and-exxon-funded-think-tanks-supporting-and-being-courted-britain-s-brexit-campaigners

    90. galamcennalath says:

      liz says:

      Getting really pissed off again at the BritNats setting the conversation which we then have to react to

      It’s a good tactic, from their perspective. We won’t will IndyRef2 if we spend the campaign just debunking Yoon havers. We need to get facts and statements out there first and get them backfooted.

      In any exchange, the initial statement (true or false) is more effective than the debunking. Proactive is always better than reactive.

      We need to set the agenda and get truth out there before the Yoons release the lie.

      As Mark Twain so wisely said … “A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”

      Mind you, Churchill reused the quote in a more Tory way … “A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.”

    91. K1 says:

      ‘Then I noticed the Scottish Daily Express beside their seat.’

      This is the paper that eats the mind’s of those who read it. When you see that paper in anyone’s vicinity…remove it, when you can. It’s toxic to the human brain and destroys all capacity to reason, it incapacitates it’s victims. Seriously I think we should set up a recovery service for those who have succumbed to the propaganda in that paper especially.

      They tend to produce even worse reactions/symptoms of disassociation* in those who buy it than even the Mail which is somewhat always been understood to be aff it’s heid.

      *’disassociation – a state in which some integrated part of a person’s life becomes separated from the rest of the personality and functions independently’

    92. Lenny Hartley says:

      O/T just had a great afternoon listening to the wee ginger dug at a packed Brodick Hall, nearly 2% of the voting population of Arran were there. Even managed to get hold of a misreporting Scotland sticker albeit from somebody who had several as there were none left on the goodies table.
      Although it was an SNP branch organised event it was good to see stalls from the Greens and SSP.
      Although the majority of the audience were well kent faces , it was good to see many that i did not recognise which proves to me at least that support is well up on the 2014 referendum.
      All enthused again and ready for when the starting gun is fired which for us is next week with a group walk up one of our many glens to get the fitness levels up for pounding the streets.

    93. Capella says:

      @ Legerwood – I’m not disputing that Trump is a liar and a bully.
      But whether the crowd that attended the inauguration was or was not “huge” is irrelevant. He would still be President if only two people had turned up. It’s hardly the most important aspect of the entire fiasco and I would guess he can summon up many “huge” crowds for future events. Enough to make the Nuremberg rallies look amateurish.

      Having said that – it looked pretty huge to me, as crowds go.

      RT live streamed the whole pompous event without commentary although it was all in bombastic English. I watched in fascination. Next time he will get Hollywood to choreograph. If he survives, that is.

    94. Dan Huil says:

      Trump says May is “his Maggie”. Rejoice!

    95. Hamish100 says:

      Capella you state to me re crowds at Trumps do that “Pictures of crowds with no timestamp just look petty.”
      Yes if you want to look at pictures with times on it so be it. Most pictures do not. I watched live broadcasts on different channels including FOX. Trump’s party was half empty.

    96. mike cassidy says:

      Jack Collatin 1.46

      I’ve archived McKenna’s scribblings.

      http://archive.is/8lXXN

      A very good Wings article under which to include it – as it blows Mckenna’s argument to pieces.

      Now I’m going to have a little cry at all the those yoonmedia types feeling sorry for themselves.

    97. Brian Powell says:

      Big Jock says

      “We know the press are run by Tory Millionaires. So I have no problem with the attacking Scotland. That’s what Tories do.”

      However it is ‘Scottish’ Labour in collusion with them that really gets to me.

    98. Stoker says:

      WOS archive links now showing over on O/T 🙂

      From 13/03/13: Hiding your shame
      http://wingsoverscotland.com/hiding-your-shame/#comments
      😀

    99. heedtracker says:

      Ken500

      Clinton was an adulterer not an abuser. Although it probably gave the right enough leverage when he lied about it all, Starr Report wise.

      So if he wasn’t an adulterer or had not lied about it rather, the Bush insanity may not have happened, Iraq war may not have happened, El Tone, Crash Gordo, all the Westminster nutters that voted Aye for the Iraq invasion, would not now have the blood of maybe a million people on their hands. So its not exactly a butterfly beating its wings in a south American rain forest, is the beginning of a hurricane in the Philippines…

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starr_Report

      Bobby Kennedy was no relation to Clinton.

    100. Legerwood says:

      Capella @ 5.27

      It is Mr Trump and his team who have turned it into an issue.

      The smaller crowds were mentioned in passing but not dwelt upon. The content of his address was the main focus of comment after the ceremony.

      The weather, which was forecast to be wet, may have been as a much of a damper on attendance as antipathy towards trump.

      During the vehicle procession that I mentioned in my post above when it was obvious that few were lining the route no comment was made about it.

      It was Mr Trump and his staff who made it an issue in large part to attack and undermine the press something they are quite capable of doing for themselves but not on this occasion.

    101. gus1940 says:

      CNN a few minutes ago – Trump’s spokeswoman re inauguration crowd numbers and press secretary – ‘Alternative Facts’.

      That’s one for us to use when talking about The BBC and MSM.

    102. Willie says:

      Trump may be a billionaire proto fascist but he has given hope to the disaffected tens of millions disenfranchised by the political system.like Adolph Hitler, if he gets millions back to work, builds new infrastructure and brings his could try back to rude health he will have suceeded. And why in Scotland would we not vote for a similar individual. took at voting in Scotland and ask what does it change – 56 MPs or 65 % to remained whilst May wipes the Scottish shite off her shoes. Ditto the Good Friday Agreement.

    103. Ken500 says:

      Jack Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy were brothers. It ran in the family shared values. So did Marilyn Munro.Bobby Kennedy was implicated in the Munroe overdose. According to some reports so were the Mafia. All covered up. While maintaining the ruse of total ‘family’ values. The wholesome core ‘family’ values. ‘Happy birthday, Mr President’.

      Some folk should have gone to Specsavers.

      Clinton Adulterer? Abuser? Using publically elected power and privilege to influence over (young) women? There is reported to be even more covered up, involving British Royals. In the abuse of young women.

    104. gus1940 says:

      CNN showing crowd shots with time stamps.

      No doubt Trump’s lot will say the time stamps have been faked.

    105. Ken500 says:

      Andrew Neil is a Tory liar. A Thatcher henchman Always have been and always will be. An arrogant, incompetent ignoramous. He delighted in Scotland’s poverty when Thatcher was secretly and illegally taking the equivalent of £Bilion in Oil revenues to build up Canary Wharf and Tilbury Docks. 26 miles and closing docks all around Scotland.and decimating the Scottish economy. The McCrone Report all documented. To line his greedy pockets. Misreporting Scotland.

    106. Thepnr says:

      @Willie

      Trump may be a billionaire proto fascist but he has given hope to the disaffected tens of millions disenfranchised by the political system.like Adolph Hitler, if he gets millions back to work

      Trump is a billionaire who will not die from lack of food or healthcare. No, he can afford the best. For the rest? the disaffected tens of millions you speak of cannot eat hope nor will hope care for them if they are ill.

      Adolph Hitler certainly got millions back to work in order to build a machine capable of waging war on the world.

      Is that what you envisage?

      Hope Hope Hope! Nope.

    107. Gary45% says:

      Have a wee look at Jonathan Pie on ya tube.
      It’s titled “The inauguration of Trump: Pie Reacts.”
      Brilliant.

      Ken500@6.38
      I believe Brillo Ligger is also a “Paisley Buddie” as well as being a Liar and Twunt.

    108. heedtracker says:

      Some folk should have gone to Specsavers.

      Am going tomorrow:D

      I’m not saying Clinton was an unpleasant powerful politician, anything but. Look at how it weakened his presidency and probably gave the Bush GOP their win.

      But none of which makes Trump any less of a reprobate. And why are American women still voting for these ghastly men?

    109. galamcennalath says:

      Brian Powell says:

      However it is ‘Scottish’ Labour in collusion with them that really gets to me.

      Astonishing, isn’t it.

      At a UK level they seem feart to challenge the Tories. Also now they think UKIP are snapping at their heals and want to stop support haemorrhaging to them by not challenging the populist right wing agenda.

      Their demise began because Blair cast all principles aside and moved to the right and chased middle England. As we all know his greatest achievement was to put millions off politics and voting at all.

      At a Scottish level, they place their Union above what’s best for their constituents. The SNP have largely filled their niche and they hate that. In turn they hate the SNP for displacing them from their God given right to rule Scotland on behalf of the Union.

      Labour everywhere no longer seem to see the Tories (and we are talking some very nasty right wingers) as those they should oppose.

      The should …

      – oppose the Tories with everything they have, there should be little common ground
      – work for what’s best for their constituents
      – and, ally with those who they share views with

      … which would require a turn around for all three!

    110. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ken500 says: 22 January, 2017 at 6:38 pm:

      “He delighted in Scotland’s poverty when Thatcher was secretly and illegally taking the equivalent of £Bilion in Oil revenues to build up Canary Wharf and Tilbury Docks. 26 miles and closing docks all around Scotland.and decimating the Scottish economy. The McCrone Report all documented. To line his greedy pockets. Misreporting Scotland.”

      Well Ken500, let us by quite clear about this. Thatcher and those before and after her get away with all they did for one reason and one reason only.

      Scots let them get away with it. We old guys an gals in the SNP way back then did our best to tell everyone and anyone who would listen the truth but they did not listen and they called us liars and troublemakers.

      Scots stood by and voted Labour Tory and Liberal and called the SNP bad names. Then, first of all when the truths began to get out they didn’t flock to the SNP – they just stopped going to the polls.

      The reason they got away with it then is the same reason they are getting away with it now. Scots are letting them get away with it and the truth is they will continue to get away with it as long as there are a majority of Scots ready to allow them to do so.

    111. K1 says:

      Gus, on that note, I’ve just read the Washington Post article on this interview with Trump’s ‘counsellor’ Kellyanne Conway, where she states ‘alternative facts’:

      http://archive.is/JN8pC

      This (from that article) is circulating on social media, claimed to be from a former ‘past Whitehouse’ employee, which is neither here or there because this describes what the issue with the argument about the inauguration numbers ‘really’ is about:

      ‘If you are puzzled by the bizarre “press conference” put on by the White House press secretary this evening (angrily claiming that Trump’s inauguration had the largest audience in history, accusing them of faking photos and lying about attendance), let me help explain it. This spectacle served three purposes:

      1. Establishing a norm with the press: they will be told things that are obviously wrong and they will have no opportunity to ask questions. That way, they will be grateful it they get anything more at any press conference. This is the PR equivalent of “begging” the odious pick-up practice of a particular kind of horrible person (e.g., Donald Trump).

      2. Incrading the separation between Trump’s base (1/3 of the population) from everybody else (the remaining 2/3). By being told something that is obviously wrong – that there is no evidence for and all evidence against, that anybody with eyes can see is wrong – they are faced to pick whether they are going to believe Trump of their lying eyes. The gamble here – likely to pay off – is that they will believe Trump. This means that they will regard media outlets that report the truth as “fake news” (because otherwise they’d be forced to confront their cognitive dissonance.

      3. Creating a sense of uncertainty about whether facts are knowable, among a certain chunk of the population (which is taking a page from the Kremlin, for whom this is their preferred disinformation tactic). A third of the population will say “clearly the White House is lying,” a third will say “if Trump says it. It must be true” and the remaining third will say “gosh, I guess this is unknowable.” The idea isn’t to convince these people of untrue things, it’s to fatigue them so that they will stay out of the political process entirely, regarding the truth as just too difficult to determine.

      This is laying important groundwork for the months ahead. If Trump’s White House is willing to lie about something as obviously, unquestioningly fake as this, just imagine what else they will lie about. In particular, things that the public cannot possibly verify the truth of. It’s gonna get real bad.’

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2wCbaBXAAApIyq.jpg:large

      We in Scotland know this all too well, sadly.

    112. I tried to post this before but I mentioned ‘Belfast’, and a ‘security team’ in the same sentence, so my post ‘disappeared’ into the e mist.
      I’ll try again.
      Stu, my wife is from Belfast. I’m trying my best to keep her away from your twitter a/c.
      I always knew that some day you would cause an international incident.
      TAYTO crisps are ‘bowfing’?
      Are you mad, man?
      My wife swears by them. (‘They’re feckin’ delicious.’)
      They are an Irish institution.
      Imagine the stooshie if some Irish hack bad mouthed Lee’s Macaroon bars?
      Expect an avalanche of ‘Outraged: Ballyjamesduff’ posts any minute now.
      You’ve taken that too far. Gonnie no’ dae that?
      Who said that it was a quiet news day?

    113. K1 says:

      Correction on above post:

      1.”negging”

      2. “increasing”

    114. Ken500 says:

      @ Some Scots let them get away with it, The majority of voters don’t. They vote SNP. ‘Times are a’changing’. BBC troughers haven’t. Still stuck in the same old rut. Many can’t can’t even use the internet.

    115. Duncan Gray says:

      Reminds me of the scene from Southpark highlighting the random manatee plot generator for The Family Guy episodes. I’m imagining Davidson, Torrance et al as the manatees randomly dropping any situation into a predetermined #SNPBAD template. I can see a whole cartoon series play out on this theme, if anyone has a couple of hundred grand to spare making it, lol,

    116. K1 says:

      The source for the quoted piece is ‘legit’, just to cross the t’s and dot the i’s, they have asked not to be ‘identified widely’:

      https://twitter.com/rascouet/status/823217104744775682

    117. Ken500 says:

      American women are still voting for these repugnant men because they have no option. It’s either that or starve paying Obamacare.

    118. Broch Landers says:

      The article dissected here is fodder for the British nationalist rump that anchors the Unionist vote.

      It would be interesting if Wings commissioned an attitudes survey to try to get a really good feel for the size and shape of that rump, and any possible cleavage.

    119. caledonia says:

      Grand tour eposide 11 from loch ness well worth watching as clarkson etc have a real go at
      England calling great scots british and they also in depth explain to viewers in usa all about it and then go on to list things various countries have invented
      All have one or two but scotland has about 100

    120. gus1940 says:

      Perhaps Donalda Wotsername will rename ‘Misreporting Scotland’
      as ‘Reporting Alternative Facts’.

    121. brewsed says:

      Usage of ‘SNPBad’ press templates does make life for the reader so much easier; scan the head line, seek out the quite obvious stock phrases such as ‘a Scottish Labour spokesperson said SNPBad’ and move on. Presumably it is also easier to generate the text or maybe the whole process is automated and there is a database of random SNPBad phrases.

      The news-where-you-are-cats-fitba-snowing web site (and presumably the radio and TV equivalents which I avoid) have this down to fine process; headline (trains, hospitals, education or weather), some suitably massaged text with suitably massaged data (for results of which are the best in the UK but don’t tell anyone that), and a boilerplate quote at the foot calling for someone to resign. The retired/resigned/ex Prof. Dr John Robertson keeps tabs on this for you on another channel. It comes as a bit of surprise when the algorithms get muddled and a not-SNPBad story appears with a footer from the SNP calling for someone to resign. I suspect something gets rebooted (or just booted) if that happens because it doesn’t happen often.

      I see some journalists are starting to whinge that those is favour of an independent Scotland are exhibiting signs of dissatisfaction with their writings and are not treating them with enough respect. Opinion pieces are exactly that; proper journalism requires a bit of research. Impartiality it a fiction – a view from nowhere is impossible. A balanced view is difficult to maintain but attempting to do so would at least exhibit some integrity. It does not take that long to produce a thousand or so words for which you are being paid. If you don’t like the heat, health and safety requirements mean the kitchen exit is well signposted.

    122. Breeks says:

      Jack Collatin says:
      “22 January, 2017 at 1:46 pm
      I note Kevin McKenna is exhorting us all to stop bashing his colleagues, as this is counter productive in the struggle for Independence. He reveals that there are ‘hundreds’ of pro Independence journos….”

      Nope. Not buying it McKenna. These journalists got the YES referendum in 2014 for free, and not one of them stood up for Scotland’s interests then, and haven’t done anything to threaten the media’s hostile monopoly since. We tried the option of going easy on press propaganda, and all we got was even more hostile press propaganda increasingly emboldened and taking on the air of an organisation that knew it was untouchable.

      If there genuinely are pro-Independence journalists, then before we cut them some slack, show me their pro-Independence journalism.

      Their silence and inaction might very well have cost us the result in 2014, and they’ve a damned cheek to be asking for our sympathy. Get out there and feckin’ earn it by protecting Scotland from another media whitewash and betrayal like a proper journalist would.

      Derek MacKay raised the bar with his Andrew Neil interview, and wasn’t it a tonic for all to see? Go easy on the journalists??? Pfft.

    123. galamcennalath says:

      Is this for real?!

      SEC. 2. REPEAL OF UNITED NATIONS PARTICIPATION ACT OF 1945.

      (a) Repeal.—The United Nations Participation Act of 1945 (Public Law 79–264; 22 U.S.C. 287 et seq.) is repealed.

      (b) Termination Of Membership In United Nations.—The President shall terminate all membership by the United States in the United Nations, and in any organ, specialized agency, commission, or other formally affiliated body of the United Nations.

      https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193/text

    124. Ken500 says:

      That will get rid of Trident and save a few lives. Only it’s got to get through Congress warmongers.

      Theresa may be isolated with no EU backing. Mayhem hemmed in a corner.

    125. galamcennalath says:

      I notice on Twitter that the Herald are running this donor story even after it’s just been shredded by The Rev.

      They really should try to keep up.

    126. The SNP should ask the speaker for an Urgent Question about the Nuclear missile malfunction,

      this could see the end of Theresa if she new about the missile malfunction and did not report it to parliament before vote on renewing our nuclear carrying subs,

      `MPs may request that the Speaker considers their application for an Urgent Question each day. Applications for urgent questions must be submitted to the Speaker to receive an oral answer on the same day. The deadlines for application to the Speaker’s Office are as follows:

      Monday – 11.30am
      Tuesday and Wednesday – 10am
      Thursday – 8.15am
      Friday – 8.30am`

    127. brewsed says:

      Talk about lazy journalism… The article being discussed in this blog has reappeared in the Herald.

      “Former SNP donor withdraws support for the party over complaints around income tax and stamp duty reforms which target high-earner”

      Complete with obligatory SNPBad footer, “Political commentator David Torrance said that it would be a “significant blow”, while Scottish Tory leader Ruth Davidson said it would be “devastating” for the party.

      There is no explanation as to what “it” is that will be devastating.

      Another nail in the coffin for the dead-tree-scrolls.

    128. Meg merrilees says:

      Macart…

      When does the headline act start… these support guys are dreadful…

      Is that ‘speech’ for real?

    129. Meg merrilees says:

      Scott Finlayson

      It seems that Labour might be across that already and certainly Nicola was tweeting as much this morning.

      I think the Tories are trying to wriggle out of it by saying that the Defence Sec will give a statement to the H of C tomorrow but I don’t think that will satisfy the SNP/Labour/Greens so watch that space.

      From what I’ve gleaned it happened on June 20th – when Cameron was still in charge but ‘they’ are trying to say that with the Brexit result and Cameron’s resignation all happening in the same few days, a decision was taken by Whitehall to suppress the news.

      Funny how it’s been leaked at 11.30pm on a Saturday night, via ‘The Sunday Times’ (any clues by whom?) in the shadow of Trump’s inauguration and two days before the UKSC pronounces on Brexit. Couldn’t have been trying to lose the story in other news, could they?

      Wonder if (t)Ruthless knew?

    130. Capella says:

      @ galemcennaleth – well that certainly trumps BREXIT ! Rest of world breathes sigh of relief. I don’t expect that to get through Congress but you never know. Move UN HQ to Europe?
      Reminiscent of Hitler’s treatment to the League of Nations.

    131. Meg merrilees says:

      Interestingly, in an interview at 1.00pm today the former head of the RN referred to Trident as “our deterrent against nuclear blackmail.”

      Always thought it was our deterrent against nuclear attack???

    132. old highlander says:

      The venomous vixen has absolute faith in our trident missiles so why waste 40 billion replacing it.

      What if it had made it’s way towards the centre of their universe.

    133. Brian Powell says:

      So B Samuel donated 10years ago but won’t now.

      There are 120,000 donors now.

    134. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ken500 says: 22 January, 2017 at 7:15 pm:

      “Some Scots let them get away with it”

      Yes, Ken, that’s what I said. I said back then we tried to tell people, and the MSM, and they did not want to Know.

      Ask around among old SNP supporters and you will find a lot will remember that they knew about things like the Macrone report. We may not have had the exact details but we knew it existed and what it said.

      The voters went out at elections and voted for the Unionist parties. Then when the Unionist parties let them down they did not start voting SNP they just stopped voting for anyone. There were very low turnouts for years. Yet when we knocked their doors they told us, “I’ve always voted Labour, (or whatever), like my Dad”.

      Yet when the results came in it was plain lots of them had become disillusioned with their old parties but they were not yet voting SNP.

      It has taken a long time to get these once Unionist voters to come round to voting for the SNP but in the meantime Westminster became so used to getting away with it that they just continue to tell the voters that they are the bosses and to do as the bosses tell you.

      The point about proper democracy is the elected to office people are the servants of the people – not the masters of the people.

      “The majority of voters don’t. They vote SNP. ‘Times are a’changing’.”

      That is not quite right for there is, today, a situation where wee Patrick Harvie is attempting to hold the SNP to ransom and force them to raise taxes.

      I would rather the SG told him to sling his hook and then call a snap election than see the SG blackmailed into policies they do not think right. Maybe the first guy to stand up in Holyrood and point the finger at the SNP could very likely be wee Patrick himself.

      Even if he doesn’t you can bet your boots that the Yoons will be squabbling over who should be first to accuse the SNP of making Scotland the highest taxed part of the UK. Hell they are at it already.

    135. galamcennalath says:

      Capella says:

      I don’t expect that to get through Congress but you never know.

      I’m guessing not. Trump might be a box of frogs, but surely not the Senate!

      Quite shocking that it’s even being contemplated by some.

      Move UN HQ to Europe?

      Dundee would be my choice. Needs a wee boost on the world stage. 🙂

      Nicola should get her bid in just in case!

    136. heedtracker says:

      It is confusing out there in yoon world,

      Scott Arthur Retweeted
      Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall Jan 21
      More
      In Scotland, activists from the tax-cutting party of government think they’re freedom fighters & call the 3rd place party the establishment.

      to,

      Ruthie babes “merely says Scotland is “tagged as” being the highest-taxed part of the UK”

      Oh well, BetterTogether 2.0 should be a hoot.

      My Slovene girlfriend’s been opening Better Together soup kitchens in his Glasgow constituency, BRITISH soup kitchens! the best in the world, global soup kitchens for a global UK.

      Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins Jan 20
      More
      Many thanks to @TrussellTrust for very informative visit to Glasgow SW food bank today with @pauline4glasgow

    137. Legerwood says:

      O/T

      Don’t know if this is true but who knows. USA making moves to leave UN. Certainly in tune with inauguration speech and comments on NATO etc.

      https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193/text

    138. galamcennalath says:

      old highlander says:

      why waste 40 billion replacing it.

      40? I thought we were up to about 200billion now.

      What is interesting is that the figure being banned around of the EU divorce is 40-60billion. Same sort of money.

      At least with Trident we get some fancy boats which must have some second hand value, and the potential fireworks display to end all fireworks displays.

      With the Brexit divorce payment we will receive sweet f…all!

    139. Macart says:

      @Meg Merilees

      Apparently. Picked the link up from Peat Worrier. Dear God! That specimen is a president.

    140. heedtracker says:

      Macart says:
      22 January, 2017 at 10:05 pm
      @Meg Merilees

      George W Bush was also a grammar and word strangler.

      Lucid Bush,

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCm9788Tb5g.

    141. Meg merrilees says:

      In early June a member of the public photographed HMS Vengeance docking in Port Canaveral. British subs go there for final checks before firing an unarmed missile across the 5,600 mile Atlantic route towards the west African coast.

      Commercial aviation was notified on June 20th to avoid specific area owing to possible tests as missiles fly above the height of commercial airlines.

      Normally the MOD issues a report and video of any successful launches to strengthen the image of the deterrent but on this occasion there was silence.

      In The Sunday Times article, it explained that test missiles are rigged up with small explosives so they can be destroyed if something goes wrong but this is not the case for armed missiles..

      During this test it is believed that something went wrong as the missile left the sea and it veered off towards America. There has been no comment form the Government.

      Michael Clarke, the former DG of the Royal United Services Institute said:
      “An unreliable nuclear deterrent would the worst of all possible worlds”

      Michael Ellman an engineer who helped design Trident ll D5 said that if had not been a test and if the missile had been armed , the consequences would have been “collateral damage on steroids”

      Here are some facts on Trident and its missiles
      http://archive.is/hO6v2

      Each missile carries 8 warheads giving a nuclear explosion about 30 times Hiroshima and each sub carries multiple missiles. I read somewhere that at a crucial point during the flight the warheads separate and spread out into individual flight paths to make them less likely to be ‘intercepted/destroyed in flight’ making it more lethal.

      This is a really serious problem. It’s getting scary now.

      The gloves are off.

      I e-mailed my MP/MSP and Nicola about this today then I joined the SNP.

    142. David Mills says:

      Uncle Bulgaria was allway behind the times but the Sunday time tops that by being more than a decade behind.
      Wombles written & sourced

    143. heedtracker says:

      Heil Trump on a good day, bad day, would any adult anywhere act like this?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX9reO3QnUA

    144. Meg merrilees says:

      We could move the UN headquarters to Faslane.
      A secure site with accommodation for many people and a ready and willing workforce who are security conscious.

      Obviously a safe site or they wouldn’t have nuclear missiles and warheads in a vulnerable place!

      It brings much needed employment to a largely rural area so we’d probably get a development grant from the EU.

      Possible higher density of native gaelic speakers who could readily encode secure documents into Gaelic to prevent interception and hacking.

      Reasonably swift access to most of Central Scotland and air/road and rail infrastructures.

      Protected airspace?
      Attractive location – could be powered by wind and hydro power rendering it unlikely to power failures/sabotage.

      What’s not to like?

    145. CameronB Brodie says:

      I think I’ll start reading a certain twitter account more often, so I can show folk how misguided BLiS___d are.

      @Duncan Hothersall
      Are you still bumming your gums about stuff you know little about, ya numpty? Read “Methodology of the Oppressed” yet? Thought not.

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    146. Dr Jim says:

      Kevin McKenna would rather see his fellow man broken his country ravaged by the Tories than upset a couple of “Journalists who may or may not support Indpendence in secret
      because they’re only doing what their bosses pay them to do, which is Kevin, to break their fellow man and allow the Tories to ravage our country, Ya Twerp

      Which makes you actually worse than them for groveling on their behalf, Ya Twerp

      There’s compromise and there’s blackmail and Comrade Harvie’s indulging in the latter at the moment and it wont serve him well, Another Twerp

      Today 7 submarines were sighted at Faslane all parked up at the same time
      Must not have been worried about Vlad the impaler today eh
      or do they need everybody on duty to count the missiles to make sure they’re all accounted for along with the billions they spent on “bog roll” eh “toilet paper” sir and eh “pens” and stuff, oh aye, and eh bombs sir, a lot of eh bombs

      That was what was defo on the requisition sir an the eh Jack Daniels for the commander

    147. heedtracker says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      22 January, 2017 at 10:28 pm
      I think I’ll start reading a certain twitter account more often, so I can show folk how misguided BLiS___d are.

      You’re watching a few activists that will tell you the Iraq war and Afghanistan wars were foreign policy errors, in which over a million people have lost their lives, now vote SLabour.

    148. heedtracker says:

      He’s penned some awful stuff about his Scotland region has our Kev,

      “There is no moral or ethical obligation for any privately-owned newspaper to adopt a neutral stance on the constitutional issue.

      Yet hundreds of journalists, both print and broadcast (and I know many of them) are either fiercely pro-independence or at least open to persuasion.

      Dismissing them all as paid lackeys of the Unionist establishment is not, I would suggest, the best way of winning hearts and minds.”

      And winged pigs were seen flapping around the roof of Guardian Towers too.

      Are there even hundreds of hacks left in Scotland now, let alone YESers? Outside the National, I have never once read anything pro Scots indy, by a hack, not a commenter, in any Scottish newspaper, ever.

    149. Liz g says:

      RE The adventures of Trident.
      Has anyone heard what the American response to an inbound missile was?
      Did they Defcon their finger closer to the trigger?
      What did the Kremlin think was going on…A false flag to give the excuse to fire on them mibbi???

    150. I think what Kevin Mac is describing is called the `Nuremberg defence`

      where the employee frees his/her conscience by claiming he/she was `only following orders`.

    151. Hamish100 says:

      ot

      Mike Russell looked particular fed up today on Sunday Politics Scotland. Maybe he realised that the Gourock- Dunoon ferry is crap and the good old days of travelling by train to Gourock or car direct to Dunoon was the way to go. Maybe he got sea sick on the wee ferry in a heavy swell (F2-3)!!
      My main concern is Russell kept referring to “..this country..” when talking to Brewer. No not Scotland as you would think but the UK. UK is a political state Mr Russell. This country is Scotland. Got it. Good. Night

    152. Thepnr says:

      There can be no doubt and there isn’t in my mind that it was the journalists that McKenna is defending that resulted in scotland reaming a part of the UK.

      It was those same journalists and their colleagues further afield that got Brexit and Trump elected.

      Now the journalists didn’t just do these things by themselves, they were just part of a plan, a narrative to influence public opinion in a certain direction. For a good years now the journalists have printed the propaganda of the government in order to shape the opinion of the masses. This could be anything at all, immigration, scroungers, war and much more.

      Manipulation is their agenda and Mr McKenna you too are blind or a fool earning a living lying to people. Agenda driven Journalism is not just a job, you need to be honest to yourself and us.

      Refuse to put their agenda forward in words if you don’t agree and spare us all of the need to criticise journalists for the crap they write. There is a difference between posters on Wings and journalists, journalists have an audience willing to pay for their shite and they are paid for writing it. We are entitled to criticise.

      You get to read our shite for free as we crowdfund it.

    153. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Macart –

      Thanks for the link to the Trump/CIA ‘speech’.

      Astonishing stuff.

      Am now scouring the house for any surplus festive booze and/or meds to make a cocktail.

      I may be some time…

    154. Johnny says:

      The media are funny.

      Come across like Labour in this insistence that it’s somehow all the (ex) readers’ faults that they don’t understand the nature of the media’s job.

      All this ‘you need us to win’ stuff is interesting too. Maybe it’s true and maybe not. But they seem to think themselves indispensable and may see this as their way to save themselves from extinction – ‘it was *all* our doing!’.

      But they have it all the wrong way round. They want redemption, respect (and sales too, no doubt) ahead of having *proved* themselves indispensable (and to have stopped the shady tactics and misleading nonsense, in some cases).

      In short, earn it.

    155. Meg merrilees says:

      galamcennalath@8.41

      Looks ilke the bill has been introduced/enacted and will be going before the House on March 1st 2017. If accepted, it then goes before the Senate and thereafter passes to the President who would terminate membership. it would take effect two years after enactment i.e 2019.

      About the same time as Brexit! Could this be a two pronged US/UK bargaining chip?

      How much of Trident spend does the US pick up?
      How long does US plan to keep their troops in Poland?

    156. Rock says:

      galamcennalath,

      “I notice on Twitter that the Herald are running this donor story even after it’s just been shredded by The Rev.”

      The Herald is kept alive by gullible independence supporters buying The National.

    157. Sandy says:

      Should one allude T. May to Trident? Takes off but not sure which direction to take. Watch out in the coming months. Will continue to go round in circles & eventually disappear up her rectum. Dangerous woman. Maybe her NHS just might be able to provide a padded cell with CCTV coverage to reduce staffing costs.

    158. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Haaaaaa!

      Synchronicity’s an amazing thing…

      I read through this thread earlier, and was enjoying it.

      It flitted through my mind, just before I commented, that the thread was Rock and S/D-free.

      I go off to have slash and get another can, and when I come back, hey-presto!

      Amazing!

    159. heedtracker says:

      Graun,

      “Trident
      MPs accuse Theresa May of covering up Trident malfunction
      Labour and SNP call on prime minister to explain whether she knew of failed test before renewal vote last July”

      If just one goes off in Argyll.

    160. Liz g says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 12.02
      Aye… Amazing but not in a good way.
      Enjoy your can..

    161. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Liz g –

      🙂

      I’ll do my best.

      Slainte to you.

    162. Sandy says:

      24,496 Scrap trident

    163. Meg merrilees says:

      Ian B re cocktails…

      I have two boxes of liqueur chocolates you’re welcome to have if I can figure out how!

    164. manandboy says:

      £200 BILLION FOR A TRIDENT SYSTEM WITH A MIND OF ITS OWN

      So we’re now paying over £200 billion for an unreliable trident nuclear weapons system.

      This must mean that right now there is no nuclear deterrent for the UK. Only the Tories would leave GB defenceless while keeping it a secret.

      When Trident was up for renewal, Theresa May withheld from Parliament the information about the Trident veering off course and heading for Africa. She must have done so, fearing that the news would make Parliament hesitate about renewal. By doing so, May effectively lied to Parliament.
      She should resign.

      What a mess this Government is in.

      I hope the No voters are paying attention.

    165. Naina Tal says:

      I’ve decided to put 5 copies of the National through random letter boxes every day operative Rock comes up with the gullible crap.

    166. Manandboy @12.27 am
      Corbyn was up here last Friday to fire a ‘turbo charged’ rocket at the SNP. Unfortunately its guidance system failed and it landed on the Branch Office Manager’s head.
      Hoisted by her own petard. Get the Party Leader up for a day to rally the trops, invite the Press, on the day Trump is inaugurated as Prez.
      If Carling did political fuck ups…

    167. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Meg M –

      🙂

      Well, if you and the liqueurs can make it to the next BBC PQ demo, in late March, I’m sure they’ll be scoffed in next-to-no-time.

    168. Thepnr says:

      There once was a man called Rock
      Who despised everything that was Jock
      He came onto Wings to feed dingalings
      And instead found out he’s a Cock

    169. Tam Jardine says:

      Long soujourn over the weekend deep in enemy territory. People are very angry on the internet, are they not?

      Much ire over Joanna Cherry’s claim that Scotland in England’s largest export destination. I think they think disproving this is some kind of slamdunk. It actually made me think of the heart of the matter- that we are being asked to either A. stay with the UK and leave our largest export market or B. become independent and leave our largest export market (rUK).

      And rather than furiously getting behind Nicola Sturgeon’s plan to keep us in both it is just another open season on independence. The people I have been debating with will not change their minds and nor will I but as I pointed out earlier- we were told to vote No for the “Best of Both Worlds”. Now the options are Nicola’s plan or pulling out of one large market or another.

      Of course it is much more complex and I can justify independence as the best option until the cows come home but putting aside the political impetus brexit has given the independence campaign, I am struck increasingly by the folly of the 23rd of June last year. What were they thinking?

    170. Thepnr says:

      @Tam Jardine

      What were they thinking? I posted this on the 15th June.

      Thepnr says:
      15 June, 2016 at 9:58 pm
      I read a post earlier tonight from Vestas at 6:09 and have to admit at being a bit skeptical of one his claims.

      From what I’m seeing in the East Midlands (Leicester) then Leave wins probably 65-35. Notable is the support for Brexit from all generations of current Indian/Pakistani immigrants. There is widespread support amongst them for restricting all immigration – including Indian/Pakistani immigrants.

      Well, I was reading that on the train on my way to N.E. England for a few days work. I had a taxi booked from the train station to take me to the hotel and we had a chat along the way.

      His name was Abdul, I knew that before even meeting him as the taxi (private hire) company send you a text with the car registration and name of the driver when he arrives.

      Anyway to get to the point, Abdul was Asian and I later found out that he was an immigrant from Pakistan that came to the UK 37 year ago. I never mentioned the referendum to him, he brought it up with me.

      “What do you think of the referendum” he asked. “well I’ll be voting to stay as will my wife and kids” “There all voting leave up here” he said. So I asked why.

      “It’s the immigrants, there’s just too many. Nobody up here is making any money and the immigrants who are working are sending money out the country and not spending it here. The rest are on benefits and shouldn’t be here anyway.”

      “We also give the EU billions every week and get nearly nothing back.”

      Must admit to being a wee bit taken aback. Thought maybe he was a one off so on leaving the taxi asked one last question “What are your family, friends and community voting?” and got the answer “We’ll vote leave, everybody is.”

      Camerons days appear numbered, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    171. Big Phil says:

      Thepnr @ 11.39 pm.
      Brilliant.
      What gets me is these so called “Scottish” journalists , When we become Our own Country are they gonnae kiss our arses to remain in Scotland?
      Everyone of them arseholes will be hounded out as will them yoons,us sweaties never forget and ye can take that tae yer ukok bank.

    172. K1 says:

      I’m aware it is ‘just’ a ‘bill’ by those 6 Republican, but that bill is a precursor to some very serious intentions that the US now has in how it conducts itself in the world. The Republicans’ control both houses. The ‘meaning’ of this reveals a sinister and utterly serious agenda of removing any and all responsibilities from/for the US in how this ‘super power’ conducts itself around the world. People need to read the thing to let it sink in:

      ‘Summary: H.R.193 — 115th Congress (2017-2018)All Bill Information (Except Text)

      There is one summary for H.R.193. Bill summaries are authored by CRS.
      Shown Here:
      Introduced in House (01/03/2017)

      American Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2017

      This bill repeals the United Nations Participation Act of 1945 and other specified related laws.

      The bill requires: (1) the President to terminate U.S. membership in the United Nations (U.N.), including any organ, specialized agency, commission, or other formally affiliated body; and (2) closure of the U.S. Mission to the United Nations.

      The bill prohibits: (1) the authorization of funds for the U.S. assessed or voluntary contribution to the U.N., (2) the authorization of funds for any U.S. contribution to any U.N. military or peacekeeping operation, (3) the expenditure of funds to support the participation of U.S. Armed Forces as part of any U.N. military or peacekeeping operation, (4) U.S. Armed Forces from serving under U.N. command, and (5) diplomatic immunity for U.N. officers or employees.’

      ——————————–

      Text of Bill:

      ‘H. R. 193

      To end membership of the United States in the United Nations.

      IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
      January 3, 2017
      Mr. Rogers of Alabama (for himself, Mr. Jones, Mr. Biggs, Mr. Smith of Missouri, and Mr. Massie) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs

      A BILL
      To end membership of the United States in the United Nations.

      Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
      SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

      This Act may be cited as the “American Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2017”.

      SEC. 2. REPEAL OF UNITED NATIONS PARTICIPATION ACT OF 1945.

      (a) Repeal.—The United Nations Participation Act of 1945 (Public Law 79–264; 22 U.S.C. 287 et seq.) is repealed.

      (b) Termination Of Membership In United Nations.—The President shall terminate all membership by the United States in the United Nations, and in any organ, specialized agency, commission, or other formally affiliated body of the United Nations.

      (c) Closure Of United States Mission To United Nations.—The United States Mission to the United Nations is closed. Any remaining functions of such office shall not be carried out.

      SEC. 3. REPEAL OF UNITED NATIONS HEADQUARTERS AGREEMENT ACT.

      (a) Repeal.—The United Nations Headquarters Agreement Act (Public Law 80–357) is repealed.

      (b) Withdrawal.—The United States withdraws from the agreement between the United States of America and the United Nations regarding the headquarters of the United Nations (signed at Lake Success, New York, on June 26, 1947, which was brought into effect by the United Nations Headquarters Agreement Act).

      SEC. 4. UNITED STATES ASSESSED AND VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE UNITED NATIONS.

      No funds are authorized to be appropriated or otherwise made available for assessed or voluntary contributions of the United States to the United Nations or to any organ, specialized agency, commission or other formally affiliated body of the United Nations, except that funds may be appropriated to facilitate termination of United States membership and withdrawal of United States personnel and equipment, in accordance with sections 2 and 3, respectively. Upon termination of United States membership, no payments shall be made to the United Nations or to any organ, specialized agency, commission or other formally affiliated body of the United Nations, out of any funds appropriated prior to such termination or out of any other funds available for such purposes.

      SEC. 5. UNITED NATIONS PEACEKEEPING OPERATIONS.

      (a) Termination.—No funds are authorized to be appropriated or otherwise made available for any United States contribution to any United Nations military or peacekeeping operation or force.

      (b) Terminations Of United States Participation In United Nations Peacekeeping Operations.—No funds may be obligated or expended to support the participation of any member of the Armed Forces of the United States as part of any United Nations military or peacekeeping operation or force. No member of the Armed Forces of the United States may serve under the command of the United Nations.

      SEC. 6. WITHDRAWAL OF UNITED NATIONS PRESENCE IN FACILITIES OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND REPEAL OF DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY.

      (a) Withdrawal From United States Government Property.—The United Nations (including any organ, specialized agency, commission or other formally affiliated body of the United Nations) may not occupy or use any property or facility of the United States Government.

      (b) Diplomatic Immunity.—No officer or employee of the United Nations (including any organ, specialized agency, commission or other formally affiliated body of the United Nations) or any representative, officer, or employee of any mission to the United Nations of any foreign government shall be entitled to enjoy the privileges and immunities of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of April 18, 1961, nor may any such privileges and immunities be extended to any such individual. The privileges, exemptions, and immunities provided for in the International Organizations Immunities Act of December 29, 1945 (59 Stat. 669; 22 U.S.C. 288 et seq.), or in any agreement or treaty to which the United States is a party, including the agreement entitled “Agreement Between the United Nations and the United States of America Regarding the Headquarters of the United Nations”, signed June 26, 1947 (22 U.S.C. 287 note), and the Convention on Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations, entered into force with respect to the United States on April 29, 1970 (21 UST 1418; TIAS 6900; UNTS 16), shall not apply to the United Nations or to any organ, specialized agency, commission or other formally affiliated body of the United Nations, to the officers and employees of the United Nations, or of any organ, specialized agency, commission or other formally affiliated body of the United Nations, or to the families, suites, or servants of such officers or employees.

      SEC. 7. REPEAL OF UNITED STATES MEMBERSHIP AND PARTICIPATION IN THE UNITED NATIONS EDUCATIONAL, SCIENTIFIC, AND CULTURAL ORGANIZATION.

      The joint resolution entitled “A joint resolution providing for membership and participation by the United States in the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization, and authorizing an appropriation therefor”, approved July 30, 1946 (Public Law 79–565, 22 U.S.C. 287m et seq.), is repealed.

      SEC. 8. REPEAL OF UNITED NATIONS ENVIRONMENT PROGRAM PARTICIPATION ACT OF 1973.

      The United Nations Environment Program Participation Act of 1973 (22 U.S.C. 287 note) is repealed.

      SEC. 9. REPEAL OF UNITED STATES PARTICIPATION IN THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION.

      The joint resolution entitled “Joint Resolution providing for membership and participation by the United States in the World Health Organization and authorizing an appropriation therefor”, approved June 14, 1948 (22 U.S.C. 290), is repealed.

      SEC. 10. REPEAL OF INVOLVEMENT IN UNITED NATIONS CONVENTIONS AND AGREEMENTS.

      Effective on the date of the enactment of this Act, the United States will end any participation in any conventions and agreements with the United Nations and any organ, specialized agency, commission, or other formally affiliated body of the United Nations. Any remaining functions of such conventions and agreements shall not be carried out.

      SEC. 11. REEMPLOYMENT WITH UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AFTER SERVICE WITH AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION.

      Nothing in this Act shall be construed to affect the rights of employees under subchapter IV of chapter 35 of title 5, United States Code, relating to reemployment after service with an international organization.

      SEC. 12. NOTIFICATION.

      Effective on the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of State shall notify the United Nations and any organ, specialized agency, commission, or other formally affiliated body of the United Nations of the provisions of this Act.

      SEC. 13. EFFECTIVE DATE.

      Except as otherwise provided, this Act and the amendments made by this Act shall take effect on the date that is two years after the date of the enactment of this Act.’

      Why is this not all over the news here or there, instead the White House and the media has used his first day in office deflecting on the inauguration crowd, wonder why?

      https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/193/text

    173. Chick McGregor says:

      Brilliant Rev, just brilliant.

    174. Meg merrilees says:

      Tam Jardine 1.04pm

      I worked and lived in S. England from 1977-2015 and saw a lot of changes during that time.

      These are some neutral observations. Sorry it’s SO long.

      Traffic levels went up, road quality went down; train services became less frequent, fares went up; decent properties to rent became scarcer, rent increased; small shops closed- supermarkets got huge; the sense of community diminished and there was a big increase in the number of non-white people living there. That never bothered me as I always felt that I was an immigrant there also, never really accepted – there was always a ‘label’ on me. Some people would try to mimic my accent – rarely reciprocated. My differences (e.g. ‘lunch’ v ‘dinner’, ‘tea’ v ‘supper’, ) were often pointed out, commented on, even though ‘one learns’ different words, phrases and pronunciation to try and fit in, get on with ‘one’s’ job.

      I can’t comment on any changes that happened in Scotland during the same period as i didn’t experience them the same way but whenever I came home to Scotland the sense of community, space and fresh air, politeness of people, especially when driving was always a stark contrast and the ‘whiteness’ of the population noticeable.
      Scotland always seemed nicer, safer, cleaner more hopeful and I longed to come back. I spoke the language and It was home.

      I dislike generalising but here’s a queer thing:
      When I work with a new group of English people they’ll ask my name – Margaret. The next question is nearly ALWAYS , ‘What do you want to be called?” ( this has NEVER happened to me in Scotland) Sorry, I’ve just told you my name, Why do you not want to use it? Why do you want me to be something else? Can’t you accept who I am?.. their solution… Maggie.
      Do these people have a subconscious reaction to non-english folk?

      Lots of people (across Britain) don’t really get what the wider picture is.
      They are fairly clued up about how daily life is changing and how those changes affect them. Many parts of the UK have been ignored, allowed to run down, had little re-investment in social care and housing and seen local sources of employment dry up.

      We can easily understand that an NHS for 55 million people will be under pressure unless well funded; transport systems have begun to buckle under the increase in passengers, roads are heavily congested; fares are high; school methods and curriculum have been changed like yo-yos over a span of 15 years etc, etc,
      But, in England, they continue to return Tory Governments and Labour/ Lib Dem have collapsed as credible opposition parties. ( A UK wide problem – although Devolution has helped our nations a bit.) What alternative is there for the people of England?

      Along comes UKIP cashing in on people’s job insecurities – blame immigrants
      Lower wages – blame immigrants undercutting our workers
      Struggling NHS – blame too rapid an increase in population – blame immigrants, large families, welfare payments, taking council houses – the politics of fear, and the rest is history.

      I’ve gone on enough – the fact is no-one has championed the number of Surgeons, doctors, nurses, pilots, accountants, pharmacists, agricultural labourers, bus-drivers, carers, shop-workers, technicians, engineers, bar staff, waitresses etc, who have come to England to work and contribute to their communities and help to improve life for so many of these areas.
      Also, if you hear something often enough on the TV and read it in the paper, hear it down the pub or at the coffee break, then you may begin to assimilate it into your own ideas.

      I thought for a long time that England would probably vote out but never really believed it till June 23rd! They knew exactly what they were voting for and chose the Brexit outcome. They were sold a pup!

    175. brian watters says:

      I take it the Times conveniently forgot to mention the huge surge of 100,000 new party members that the SNP went through after the Indyref in 2014. I doubt the SNP are particularly worried about a measly 25 grand from some dubious x-toriy. At the moment they have the 3rd largest membership of any political party in the UK and have donors who do more than dish a few grand once over a decade ago

    176. Meg merrilees says:

      K1

      If that bill goes through I wouldn’t want to be living in Palestine, Ukraine, Poland or other country bordering Russia and I think we might just need to buy some hard hats!

      And if the USA pulls out of the UN then I suppose could NATO collapse/become obsolete?

    177. Macart says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 11.50

      Pretty much my first thought when I saw it too. The result of runaway narrative on both sides of the Atlantic Trump, May and all the societal carnage that goes with them. There’s a saying I’ve seen bandied about a few times on the interwebby.

      ‘May you live in interesting times’

      On reading that speech, I’d be deliriously happy with some abject boredom in the world. 😉

    178. Meg merrilees says:

      Chick macGregor

      Congratulations Grandad!

      Hope you’ve wet the bairn’s heid?

    179. Liz g says:

      Chick McGregor

      Congratulations.. Hope mother & daughter are doing well.X

    180. Liz g says:

      Meg Merrilees @ 3.18

      The explanation of how the English electorate got to where they are makes a lot of sense.
      The bit I don’t get is “a long come UKIP”, I mean where the hell from?
      When I first saw them on TV I just assumed that they were a bit of an oddity.
      Watching them gain legitimacy as a party to vote for was surreal.
      I really don’t know what to make of their rapid rise at all.
      I can see why all the media were on the same page with our Independence movement…But this lot???
      With us there’s obviously a nod and a wink from on high to report it the way they do.
      But how does it happen that UKIP become a party with a voice across the MSM so fast and so completely?

    181. Breeks says:

      Liz at 4:55

      They are promoted by the BBC.

      Think back to the Euro elections, and Farage trying to agitate xenophobia in Scotland but was heckled by students. The media spun that bulls hit as UKIP running for its life from violent nationalist mob. Then with our majority reduction system of voting, suddenly Scotland has the humiliating spectacle of a UKIP slug nobody had even heard of presented to Europe as an elected representative of Scotland.

      I still feel a combination of rage and embarrassment, both for UKIP and their chums on board the BBC mother ship. The BBC who recruit and select their panel and audience after interaction with far right extremists like the EDL.

      Just look at how the media now flatters Marine la Pen as a kindred spirit fighting the same good fight as UKIP. The darling of the Brexit tory government, but a few months ago, la Pen was the French equivalent of Nick Griffin; the “acceptable” face of the skinheads and neo-Natzis in the BNP.

      None of this would be happening without the Craven complicity of the BBC.

    182. woosie says:

      If no deal for britain is better than a bad deal for britain, then surely no nuke system is better than a bad one?

      If the US is pulling out of NATO, we need the security of the EU more than ever. England seems content to be yet another country conquered by stealth by America. Why drag us with them?

    183. Hamish100 says:

      Rock at 1155. Herald is Kept alive by gullible National supporters? Really. I’ll buy and read the paper I wish. What I won’t do is be so gullible to stop buying the ONLY daily paper supporting independence. Your unionist trolls are subtle but for all to see or can you inform me of another newspaper?
      Thought not.

    184. yesindyref2 says:

      Subtle?

    185. Hamish100 says:

      GMS 10 mins ago.

      An unmanned trident missile veered of course. Ahhhhh just like the movie DR No we should have someone sitting on it to steer. Any volunteers or nominations

    186. Ken500 says:

      It is more than likely SNP and Independence supporting voters buy MSM and don’t believe everything they read. They prefer the internet. Many people buy a cheap paper for the TV listing and the Sport or as a comic. The numbers are decreasing for those who are offended by what they read and young people who prefer the internet for information. Many don’t like waste of paper.

      The Tories are the laughing stock of the world. Delusional. The UK needs the EU for Defence. To pull out of the EU is criminal especially for Defence reasons. EU membership shares and cuts Defence costs. It might be a good idea to cut Defence if the UK/US stopped illegally bombing the Middle East to bits. In support of illegal apartheid regimes and total absolute despot Monarchies, who illegally break International Law with impunity.

      The Tories are the laughing stock of the world. They can’t count but waste public money like their is no tomorrow.

    187. galamcennalath says:

      Liz g says:

      But how does it happen that UKIP become a party with a voice across the MSM so fast and so completely?

      IMO Some parts of the ruling classes want to shift the UK to the right. They look at the EU social democratic model with its considerable regulation by the state, and don’t like it. They look at the US deil tak the hindmaist social model and think, that that will do nicely.

      I’m not sure whether UKIP just happened to be there as an organisation the right and the msm could latch on to, or whether it was created for the purpose. I err towards the latter.

      The BBC’s news is driven by newspaper news. Given the scale of the BBC, it shouldn’t but they opt out of journalism and just run with the ‘papers.

      ‘Project UKIP’ has been pretty successful. They have shifted the Tories to the right. They have made Labour fearful to challenge populist Tory policies. They have been instrumental in the ongoing Brexit fiasco which will inevitable allow the shift to the right and moving to a US model.

      …. in England. Hell mend them, we’re should be leaving them to it.

    188. Ken500 says:

      The EU has just spent £Billions putting another cover/shield over Chernobyl which will last less than 100 years. In order to try and contain the radiation core still spewing out poison. There is no solution to the disposal of waste.

      The Tories are partially the only regime in the world do not support renewables but support nuclear.

    189. Macart says:

      @Nana

      I don’t see Mr MacWhirter as being far wrong in his article Nana. Over the past year or so the world has grown a little darker and a little colder.

      There are still some alive today who’ve seen this kind of darkness before. Those of of us born in the subsequent generation were raised on tales of it from those who lived through it. I wonder if this time we’ll step back from the edge? Y’know, if we actually do remember the darker lessons of history or whether we are doomed to repeat them.

      You’d like to think we’d evolved past catastrophic error, but apparently not. Hopefully, at least some of us have. We don’t need to be a party of, or party to, this awful politics or societal idiocy. At least we have the opportunity to choose a different road. 😉

    190. Dr Jim says:

      It’s not whether the missile worked or not that’s in question, it’s do we live in the UK or North Korea where not telling people stuff is OK….AND

      We buy these things from America with our money, if we bought a faulty telly we’d be getting our money back from the manufacturers for shoddy goods, so how many of these things are we paying for that we’ll never know if they work or not and does that mean America is screwing us out of billions and who profits from that

      In covering this failure up anyone could be forgiven for thinking is Trident a big giant exercise in looking tough and it never worked anyway

      So that’s just three reasons I can think of to question the validity of this stupid system apart from the obvious fourth (don’t want it) so I’m sure the clever clogs can think of a lot more discrediting stuff

    191. Contrary says:

      Absolute cracker on GMS earlier: Bill Whiteford, I think, interviewing an SNP person re trident test failure, lots of Bill saying but but but, then ‘but they don’t all need to work properly surely?’,,, hahaha, oh my,oh my, so as long as 4 missiles target our illusionary enemies, it doesn’t matter if one comes back on us & we destroy ourselves?!? hahaha,,, well, maybe it won’t, who wants to live through the nuclear wasteland that would result? I wonder if that will be the UK government’s defence??

    192. Ken500 says:

      Trump will eat the likes May, Johnston, Gove, and Farague for breakfast and spew them out. Like chalk and cheese. Aliens from space. So much for any ‘special relationship’. They are in for a complete shock. No matter how they try to cover it up and paste over the cracks. The Tories have burnt both ends of the candle. The Tories are like rats in a sack. Farague is a criminal. A total crook. Illegally used public funds to fund a political Party. Now being investigated in the EU. The Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. The Tories are the dangerous, laughing stock of the world.

    193. Dr Jim says:

      In order for the UK government to take Scotland seriously and be treated the same as Norn Ireland The Times Newspaper is more or less suggesting that we blow things up thereby advocating that peaceful democracy doesn’t work

      It would give Ruth a chance to get another shot on a tank I suppose

      BTW The Times story was @Kenny Farquarson just to save anybody thinking it might have been an actual credible person

    194. Nana says:

      @Macart

      The outlook is bleak for sure if we don’t get out and soon.

      We have our little helpers down south shouting about England forever being ignored. Amazing just how blinkered they are and who is to blame for that ignorance. There will be hell to pay when they learn the truth.

      I do hope they enjoy fruit picking till they are too old to remember the good old days. NHS, social care, benefits, I could go on…

      England’s forgotten majority who believe they pay for Scot’s freebies
      http://archive.is/UWGpe

    195. Ken500 says:

      McWhirter is still sprouting nonsense in the article. Two and two make five. Confusing and connecting stand alone issues and coming to unwarranted conclusions.The narrative everything is moving ‘right’ not proven. Then bend the evidence to justify it. It certainly isn’t in Scotland. Most are still left of centre. Especially in Europe.

      In Ireland they blew things up because they (illegally) didn’t have a vote and the intransigence of the Westminster Gov. Universal Suffrage 1928. In some parts of Belfast Catholics were denied the vote and discriminated against in the 1960’s. Until the 90’s. There is still a vacuum in Irish politics. It has no gone away. The recent past has no been forgotten and could easily kick off again especially if power is returned to Westminster. There is still division and anxiety.

      Just as a form of Democracy only came to Scotland in 2000. Outvoted in Westminster. Westminster is not an organ of democracy in Britain. Stuck in the past.

      It is Tory intransigence which will lead to their downfall.

    196. Ken500 says:

      It could be Newsquest is shifting stance further towards Independence. Or is it a ‘National’ publication.

    197. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 23 January, 2017 at 12:07 am:

      “If just one goes off in Argyll.”

      In fact, statistically, the chance of an accidental nuclear incident happening is most likely while loading and unloading these thing on and off the submarine and transporting them around.

      Furthermore, and I’m working on memory here, there was a safety report that identified a particular weakness in the methods, and/or procedures used at the Clyde base.

      It was a long time ago so that may have changed but there was no move to change it while I was still of working age.

      As a Trade Union steward, and working in the MOD RADIAC Lab, I was trained in safety issues and thus involved in these safety issues at The Clyde Base at that time.

      However the Clyde Base was then still a new Naval Establishment. The Nuclear Submarine Refitting, Repair and Refuelling had largely only recently been taken from Rosyth and transferred to Faslane and Devonport but the Rosyth Radar/Sonar and Radio Workshop still were the RADIAC centre for all Admiralty ships and establishments north of Newcastle.

      (Note RADIC is RadioActivity Detection Indication and Computation. and we calibrated, repaired and serviced all the Clyde Base instruments such as Geiger Counters and installed Doorframe Detectors.

    198. Ken500 says:

      MSM is majority owned by tax evading Non Dom. How can the MSM be reflective of honest balance opinion. When the industry acts illegally (phone taping and bribing public officials) and the criminal owners get away with it. An inconsequential slap on the wrist by a political system (Westminster) which does not support a free and balanced Press or democracy. When they should have lost their license to trade for breaking Business Laws. Being unfit people to hold Directorships. By Thatcher illegally handing control/ownership of the Press to a ‘right wing’ majority ownership, and denying it. Murdoch. A cabel financially reward the elected politicians. Directly and indirectly. Without a free and balanced Press there is no Democracy.

      Do the Press condone the Press breaking the Law with no redress. Above the Law. All in it together. The Press and the Politicans above the Law. Where does that leave the population and Democracy. Let down by the political system and the Press with questionable motives.

      If some ‘journalists’ can’t see the bias against Independence klaxoned out daily. By ‘reporters’ who can’t even use the Internet for five minutes, Should have gone to Specsavers. If they want to destroy their own industry it is up to them. They are making a good job of that. Yes and STV is slightly less biased because it needs the revenues.

    199. heedtracker says:

      But how does it happen that UKIP become a party with a voice across the MSM so fast and so completely?

      What is the how and why behind working class tories too? Kev McKenna points out this weekend how Ruth Davidson’s whole life has been an example of the benefits and privileges hard won and fought for by socialists, housing, healthcare, education. But as we can see, Ruth grew up to become a tory in chief whose whole mission in life is to, if not destroy it all, certainly cause as much harm as possible.

      Ruth’s only a minor tory really. She’s a sock puppet for big money Scottish tories and ofcourse high tory England in Scotland. But look at Mike Gove, working class Aberdeen, free private school education in Aberdeen, free Oxbridge education, yet his life’s work so far has been to destroy all of this. Ruthie babes is not exactly a deep thinker, Gove’s clearly an intelligent man.

      So what’s the psych behind this Govian toryboy mindset? Greed, self interest, a genuine belief that the societal benefits and nurturing they grew up with is a bad thing, that must be cut and then killed off?

      In Scandinavian countries, people like these tories work to build and improve their societies and not destroy them. Or at the the very least and unlike Gove type tories, they dont fight to diminish, damage, scrap outright the societal benefits they took for granted and exploited.

      Sorry, just listening to BBC gimps giving the far right in the EU another and hourly massive BBC say vote Le Pen boosterising. Little Britain is a such strange tory land.

    200. Fionan says:

      we have lost several of our brilliant new Scottish-owned, Scottophile media ventures, so we need to ensure that those we have left thrive to see us through indyref 2. Hope plenty of you can support iScot’s fundraiser to ensure the future of this lovely mag full of interesting, pro-Scotland articles and amazing photos, ideal for leaving in Gp and dentist waiting rooms, hairdressers etc to reach the general public and counteract the msm smears

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iscot-magazine-phase-3-the-last-call

    201. heedtracker says:

      Robert Peffers

      Its not just the loading risks Robert, its an extremely vulnerable target, for any aggressor, not just military. Which is also why they dump it all in Scotland. Its probably invisible out at sea, although drone science is meant to be racing away to spy on them on active duty. But they are a extremely vulnerable in Faslane and all the way down the Clyde estuary.

      UK gov spin docs were out today on BBC r4 explaining this launch test is only one fail out of 150 tests, so chillax. But one fail is more than enough to turn the central belt into a Chernobyl. And is it like they have launched tested trident missiles 150 times, at several million a launch? Its likely its a US stat going way back to its inception in the 70’s.

      Its all in the MOD spin.

      This is where the Green Scottish party should be really kicking tory warmongering arse. Its what German Greens did to the German nuke industry, totally transforming German attitudes towards all nukes, not just weapons. And now German Greens are a major German power.

      SLab are done now, Scottish tories are comedic, both propped by our ridiculous BBC Scotland but has Whatisface leader of the Scots Greens got the stones big enough to do what the Germans do? They certainly feed off of Green success in the EU.

      Patrick Harvey! that’s the man, with no plan, Green wise.

    202. yesindyref2 says:

      Interesting little spat between Andrew Neil and Cherry (and Salmond). Fraser Whyte has dug up 2014 figures which show rUK exports to US £84 billion in 2014, which compares to around £50.5 billion for rUK to Scotland.

      Which really shows the value to the rUK of exports to us in Scotland – 60% of the US ones, or to put it another way, the UK exports just 66% more to the USA with a population of 320 million – 60 times that of ours with 5.4 million.

    203. Tinto Chiel says:

      I usually scroll past Rock’s musings but it suddenly occurred (I admit, I am a little slow) to me that his harping on about The National and the Sovereignty Issue must mean that they are areas of real concern for The Establishment.

      Far from being “pedantry”, the latter (and the irrefutable bi-partite nature of the Union) is the snare which will trip up May’s attempt to take us out of the EU against our wishes.

      As for Mr McKenna, he will write whatever his various audiences want to hear, but always with a sneer for the SNP or the SG. And the very few real journalists, like Lesley Riddoch, who came out during the referendum, have been made to pay, as she herself described a little while ago.

    204. Breeks says:

      I scratch my head about the dangers of contamination from a nuclear naval Base – I scratch my head, not to be confused with doubting them, but what is the likeliest source of contamination?

      Ok, priority target for attack I understand, but peacetime threat…Is it the reactors on board the vessels going into meltdown? Is it radiation from fuel? Is it a weapon malfunction? What is the specific danger?

      It took scientists decades to invent nuclear weapons, which implies a complex process which isn’t going to be set off if the weapon was to tip over or get too hot on a sunny day… I HOPE. Call me naive, but I would hope any terrorist who somehow got hold of a nuke would have the devil’s own job trying to make it detonate. You would hope they would be transported with vital components removed and don’t come with instructions written on the side… You would hope.

      See I have an internal conflict here… If the UK trident hadn’t been a peace time non nuclear launch malfunction, but a nuclear strike in earnest, then Trident’s malfunction would have inadvertently saved hundreds of thousands of people from instantaneous evaporation. I’m kinda OK with Trident being duff. – Now they’re going to go and fix the damned thing.

      OK, hands up, I know that’s shallow and fickle, but think about it, without a malfunction, death means death on a truly epic industrial scale, and I struggle to find it relevant what language they all spoke. These weapons carry no moral salvation for anyone.

    205. louis.b.argyll says:

      Post Brexit and post NATO..

      Would it be cheaper for the Tories to buy their/our nukes from, say France or Russia?

      The USA Gov.. isn’t on anyone’s side, anymore.

    206. galamcennalath says:

      Tinto Chiel says:

      Sovereignty Issue …. is the snare which will trip up May’s attempt to take us out of the EU against our wishes.

      While the UK had UK wide parties, and most Scots were subservient North Britons, the unstable constitutional reality of Union could be hidden in a drawer, never to be opened.

      Now London must be well aware of that particular elephant in wait.

      It will all come to the fore and into the publics eye and it must terrify them more than most things.

      The Supreme Court deliberations tomorrow should interesting. My guess is they will fudge the sovereignty issue and give their judgement based on a less contentious basis.

      But the sovereignty issue is still standing in the corner of the room.

    207. Capella says:

      Nigel Farage was a market trader in the City. EU regulation is anathema to financiers. On the other hand, they want freedom to trade. What might May bargain away in exchange for passporting rights?
      May’s husband is also a City financier.

    208. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 23 January, 2017 at 8:32 am:

      “But how does it happen that UKIP become a party with a voice across the MSM so fast and so completely?”

      Well it may well be because the Parliament of the United Kingdom, (sic), at Westminster has always just been the public face shown to the general public but is really, as it always has been, The Westminster Establishment’s, face that they shown to the public and to the World.

      This Establishment is of several political parties who, like a collieshangie or a poke o futrets, (dogfight or a bag of ferrets), will fight among themselves but let an outsider interfere and The Establishment stand shoulder to shoulder against the common foe.

      The Establishment are the evolved remnants of the several immigrant Germanic Tribes who came to Britain and who made themselves a succession of elite ruling classes of Royalty and aristocracy who treated the native Britons as slaves, serfs or villeins or serfs.

      “Serfdom is the status of many peasants under feudalism, specifically relating to manorialism. …. Villeins had more rights and higher status than the lowest serf, but existed under a number of legal restrictions that differentiated them from freemen …”

      After Roman Times, and until the Normans, these immigrants to Britain were all variations from the Scananavian regions and not just from what is now modern Germany. We still have some remnants of these sitting in the HOL as hereditary peers today and the actual Royals family name is NOT Winsor but, “Saxe-Coburg-Gotha”.

      They are thus genetically, and culturally, programmed to the extreme right wing. If there had not been a UKIP the Westminster Establishment would have had to invent one.

      Perhaps, if you think about it, they probably did.

    209. Robert Peffers says:

      @Macart says: 23 January, 2017 at 8:40 am:

      “There are still some alive today who’ve seen this kind of darkness before. Those of of us born in the subsequent generation were raised on tales of it from those who lived through it. I wonder if this time we’ll step back from the edge? Y’know, if we actually do remember the darker lessons of history or whether we are doomed to repeat them.”

      You have just described the core essence of history from the earliest introduction of mankind. Man has been always a prolific breeder and the ultimate predator. Our entire history could be written briefly as : –

      “The first human leaders were the strong ones who ruled by sheer brute might. These became the first elite rulers. They tended to breed within their own class of rulers and so began the, “Ruling Classes”, of Kings & Emperors. Builders of kingdoms and Empires. It also began the lower classes all the way from princes to slaves.”

      As their kingdoms and empires grew they needed help to run them and the hierarchy of nobles and feudal systems began.

      History shows that there were always revolts and dynastic falls. However, even such as the French and Russian Revolutions did not greatly eradicate the, “Ruling Classes”. For no matter what else happens the inbred nature of mankind resurfaces and the process begins again with a newly created, (by themselves), elite ruling class.

      The old guard, though, has always prevailed, as those hereditary peers in the HOL prove. Yet the prolific breeding capabilities of humans then comes into play and the kingdom, Empire, Pseudo-Republic, Union or whatever becomes unsustainable due to overpopulation. The ruling elites often then temporarily alleviate the situation by starting wars.

      These wars can gain the winners more territory until that too gets unsustainable but they also serve to wipe out large portions of the unsustainable populations. It is usual that a greater proportion of the elitists survive such wars. They lead from behind the lines.

      Now consider this – WWI Germany was attempting to increase German territory, WWII saw the same pattern but it eventually involved making the USA more powerful until they too became unsustainable and have been involved almost continually in wars throughout the World and, today we have a USA and a UK that has become unsustainable. They both are net importers and both have massive deficits and now we see May cosying up to The Donald.

      Now – show me where I have drawn wrong conclusions?

      If you can.

    210. Fred says:

      @ Robert, if the Saxe-Coburg de Gotha’s were an ordinary family up a close? their real name would now be Schleswig-Holstein Sonderburg-Glucksburg!

    211. Betty Boop says:

      @ Thepnr, 22/01/17, 2:52pm

      Spot on!

    212. Betty Boop says:

      @ Thepnr, 22/01/17, 2:52pm

      Spot on!

      Exactly why there shouldn’t be an over-arching, so-called HQ again. Groups working jointly and severally will be far better instead of paid PR.

    213. Meg merrilees says:

      liz g @ 4.55am

      ‘Along comes UKIP’ (Sorry – another long haver!)

      Yes, from where?
      1964 -Nigel Farage born. 1991 – UKIP founded.

      40 years ago, we still had 3 party politics. We still had miners, shipbuilders, we made things; ‘wealth’ creation was less centralised to London, the South-east, finance. Trades Unions could protect you.
      Thatcher and the Tories swept away the ‘old order’ that had kept things running since the 2 wars where you had a job, self respect, work hard and you’ll be ok in your old age the state will look after you and they destroyed the Unions and the concept of ‘Unity is strength’. Divide and rule.

      In Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland the north of England, the manufacturing base was decimated and there was no alternative. Whole generations saw these ‘promises’ broken and we were told ‘get on your bike and look for work’. Many men lost their jobs and the women had to keep families afloat but as a result we kept a stronger sense of family and community.

      That recent analysis by the professor from Cambridge is spot on. The nations got devolution, and although that wasn’t the answer overnight, it gave us an alternative. We had another identity we could build on and we were ‘different’.

      England was stuck in the same place. If you ‘got on your bike’, where could you go?
      There was ‘a vacuum’.

      Fast forward to the 80’s, the Yuppies – young, ‘upwardly mobile’ people; It’s all there for the taking – so long as you’re in the right place, are the right age to benefit from it! But what if you’re not. It seemed Socialism had let people down and ‘man mind thyself’ was the new ethos.

      Enter ‘Alf Garnett’ – nobody could take that seriously; he was ‘stoopid’ rude, ‘unedikatid’ patriotic, funny – but nasty underneath.
      BUT which came first?
      Was Alf Garnett modelled on real people or was he a TV construct/ Did people copy the telly or did the tv give folk the courage to say what they were really thinking and feeling?

      In the 90’s the Tories mucked it up.
      Europe was growing up, we signed the Maastricht treaty, declined the euro, there was a massive monetary collapse, 15% interest rates, Tories were out.
      Nigel Farage resigned from the Conservative party and UKIP was born from a disgruntled, right-wing Conservative ideology.

      Labour was sidelined till Blair came along. (Where would the UK be if John Smith had not died?) Even then, Labour had to shift to the right before it stood a chance.
      Labour gets elected but the factories and jobs don’t return; things don’t get better; more people keep coming ‘here’, more competition for jobs/housing etc.

      It’s “the Millennium” and Devolution is happening and the Good Friday Agreement. Europe is getting stronger – Human Rights, minimum wage, freedom of information, all things that will help’ the plebs’ but are not necessarily good for ‘the Establishment’ and ‘middle England’ feels ignored.
      Afghanistan, Iraq wars – lives lost, money wasted that could have built hospitals, roads, factories, gold reserve sold off, pensions raided to finance Blair’s wars – economy dwindling.

      Along comes this geezer Farage (who, although he can’t stand Europe, has been an MEP since 1999) and it’s not funny any more.
      He talks ‘proper’ and wears a suit; HE can’t be ‘stoopid and uneddikatid’.
      He’s just like the kind of guy you can have a pint with, down the pub, but he is standing up and saying really controversial things and people start to listen, ‘cos ‘our Nige ‘ is one of us – he’s a toff! he’s English!
      Not one of these Welsh (Kinnock) or Scottish people (Blair/Brown) interfering in our country, trying to tell us wot to do!
      ‘East-Enders’ on telly makes a lot of us say ‘fings’ like ‘innit’ and ‘wot?’ and sells the idea that ‘we’ are all really ‘Londoners’ and that’s the yardstick.

      “UKIP’s primary voting base is in England and consists largely of older, white, working-class Britons ” – exactly those people who feel that the previous 30 years have sold them ‘down the river’. Could this be an alternative to the Lab/Con stalemate?
      UKIP grew quickest in the European Parliament but for most us that happened unseen for at least a decade.

      I don’t think UKIP is a coincidence; it was a creation of the far-right of the Conservatives who don’t want to lose their privilege and wealth. It represents extreme Thatcherism and gained in popularity on the back of rising immigration in England, people’s anger and fear for their future. Farage took it away from BNP leanings and realised that it had to have broader policies to grow nationwide. I think he listened to the things people were moaning about and crafted his policies around those moans, plus, he had weak Opposition.

      It is still primarily an English party and is their ‘alternative’ to Lab/Con/Lib Dem’s and our answers of the SNP/ Sinn Fein/DUP/ Plaid Cymru but Euroscepticism has allowed it to spread nationwide.

      I think TV publicity helped it hugely as it helped Trump and will build Le Pen and others.
      Controversy gets you noticed and if you ‘appear to’ question authority you will get publicity. How much of that questioning is stage-managed and created specifically to cause a controlled movement back to the establishment?
      We will probably never know but it is not a natural swell of opinion, it has and is definitely being manipulated.

      UKIP has 1 MP ; 3 Lords and 20 MEP’s!!!

      THE END.

    214. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Where would the UK be if John Smith had not died?) Even then, Labour had to shift to the right before it stood a chance.”

      I’ve thought about this myself many times. John Smith has been beatified but he was still, basically, a Unionist and although he seemed like a nice boy he was always a bit too close to the likes of John Reid and Helen Liddell, Maxwell’s bag-carrier and eventually colonial appointee in Australia.

      Under him, Scotland would still have been fed the same old “Solidarity with Bus drivers in Liverpool” crap while all our assets and hope would continue to flow south.

      We are really in a much better position now, where it has essentially polarised the choice: independence or perpetual Tory rule.

    215. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT Allo !Allo ! star Gordon Kaye has died , the press write of the terrible accident he had on ‘Burns Day’ – as if they noticed at the time .

    216. Meg merrilees says:

      Tinto

      Good point,

      I really meant ”Where would labour be now if John Smith hadn’t died?” and from that point, the direction of the country. Agree Smith was unionist.

      There’s no doubt that Blair/Devolution and the endless move to the right has given us the chance to choose Independence.

    217. Ian Foulds says:

      I have not yet read all the posts, yet, but would question whether it was Ms Sturgeon or Mr Salmond who made the ‘once in a generation’ reference.

    218. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian Foulds.

      This link may provide the answer you seek.

      https://indyref2.scot/lets-nail-the-once-in-a-generation-myth

    219. Tinto Chiel says:

      Yes, Meg, and the EU, (EC then) had to twist his arm because of the democratic deficit they saw in Scotland, Wales and NI.

      I worry that, if we’re dragged out of the EU, there will be a concerted Westminster attempt to run down our parliament in a death by a thousand cuts, for which the SNP will be blamed.

      I’d put nothing past them, frankly.

    220. Ian Foulds says:

      Brian Doonthetoon at 7.32 Many thanks for taking the trouble and time to inform me.

    221. Chick McGregor says:

      @Nana
      “I’ve decided to put 5 copies of the National through random letter boxes every day”

      That is a great idea.

      Need to get the newsagent to order 5 extra though or it could defeat the purpose by them running out.

      It would soon mount up to a fair amount of money though.

      Sets the old brainbox whirring.

      I wonder how many the National get returned to no good effect? These would be better employed spreading the word by volunteer deliverers, if possible.

      Can’t think of a fiddle free way to organise it though.

      Maybe issue volunteer cards so readers can buy one get 5 free??

    222. Chick McGregor says:

      That last post should have been @ Naina, sorry Nana.

    223. Chick McGregor says:

      Liz and Meg,
      Thanks for the congrats. Mother and daughter doing well.

      Aye the Glenfiddach I got for my own birthday last week was cracked. It used to be my favourite but I was given it as a present by someone who is unaware of their Unionist shenanigans.

      Pitty I can no longer buy it myself, it is a damn fine whisky.



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