The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

With their bombs and their guns

Posted on January 23, 2017 by

We followed with interest an exchange over the weekend between Times columnist Kenny Farquharson and the anti-Brexit QC Jolyon Maugham, regarding the difference between the UK government’s insistence that there won’t be a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland because of the UK leaving the EU, and its continued insistence that there WOULD have to be one between the rUK and an independent Scotland, despite the legal circumstances being indistinguishable.

Farquharson, who like much of the Scottish political commentariat clings doggedly to the implausible dream of a “federal” UK, was adamant that the rules would – and indeed that they should – be different for the two ostensibly identical situations, and his given reason was a deeply disturbing one.


Kenny, it seems, thinks Scottish nationalists should do a lot more murdering.


Because that’s the inescapable conclusion of the argument that says “You have to make an exception for Northern Ireland or they’ll start killing each other again”. There’s been peace in the province for almost 20 years, but the death toll of the “Troubles” ran into the thousands, most of them innocent civilians on both sides.

And if you say that bombing pubs and shooting people in the streets means you should get more favourable political treatment in the future, then logically that must also be true everywhere else, and therefore that if Scottish nationalists want to get a better deal from the rUK then they really need to start blowing bits of it up pronto.

And while that would certainly sell a lot of papers, and justify a lot of abysmal articles from idiot pundits about the “Ulsterisation” of Scottish politics, we’re sure that when he sits down and thinks about it it’s not what Kenny Farquharson really wants at all. In which case, it might be an idea if he stopped sounding like he did.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 23 01 17 11:56

    With their bombs and their guns | speymouth

281 to “With their bombs and their guns”

  1. One_Scot says:

    I have always thought of that man as an absolute idiot. Looks like nothing has changed to make me think different.

  2. Ian McCubbin says:

    These are not the only group to suggest we treat Ireland differently.
    One other on Indy side now suggests only way to Indy is referendum as any other ways UDI or small steps of taking powers like NZ or Canada leads to military tension on each side.I now despair!!
    I now

  3. Grouse Beater says:

    Anything that scares the Plebs enough to back away from genuine self-governance is to be applauded.

  4. Bryan Weir says:

    Valid point.

  5. Wullie B says:

    “and therefore that if Scottish nationalists want to get a better deal from the rUK then they really need to start blowing bits of it up pronto.”

    That sounds like fun if you ask me, maybe we should start on post boxes and flag poles bearing the apron (Really only kidding Mi5 and any other spook services)

  6. CameronB Brodie says:

    That’s the spirit. As insurgencies go we’re pretty lame, frankly.

  7. Johnny says:

    Yes, ‘you follow the democratic principle in attempting to achieve your aims, so you’re not getting them’ is a ridiculous argument to make.

  8. bobajock says:

    The legs on the ‘bettertogether’ table are gone. Kenny is trying to make sure the veneer on top sticks while its on the fire.

    Border? Meh. So be it – Wangland would be the odd one out in the EU, with a sad NI dragged into Wanglands hell. One does wonder how long that will last.

    They really are shitting it after the EU vote – believe me, the City of London is a tad meltdown – check the weekend Times article which is actually trying not to look bad.

    If Scotland sticks in the EU after #indyref2, then a crapton of money will move to that safe EU haven. Never mind trade and industry.

    Imagine Nissan saying – Sunderland unworkable, but Livingstone – we can do it there.

  9. X_Sticks says:

    Northern Ireland is expendable. It doesn’t have any oil. It is a burden on Westminster. I expect to see calls for a re-unification of Ireland in dues course. It’s ONE easy answer.

    Scotland, on the other hand is Westminster’s cash cow and they will fight tooth and nail to prevent independence.

  10. Fiona says:

    Not the first time this argument has been made. Proposition is that only violence will safeguard our interests. As I said before: “message received”. They really are infantile and irresponsible. It is sad

  11. gighagirl says:

    We are mistaken in that we expect logic and reason – where none exists

  12. handclapping says:

    As long as we talk about our targets in the Rose St pubs as we did last time we’ll be fine

  13. Alasdair Macdonald says:

    How soon will it be before the first unionist medium runs an article, “Independence website urges violent insurrection in Scotland.”?

  14. RMAC says:

    AK45, that must be similar to a P45, he’s such a poor journalist that he hasn’t bothered to research his material properly. If he had he would know that the terrorists favourite weapon is the AK47 or AK74.

    Kenny F must have had a job as a circus performer judging from the contortions he was performing during this exchange in an effort to justify his double standards.

  15. Iain says:

    Maximum pwnage of the Farq from Maugham there. I don’t remember any deep (or shallow) squeamishness from Farquharson about exploiting crises to argue against Scottish indy.

    Of course he’s the deep thinker that asserted, without a shred of supporting evidence, that there was a confidence & supply arrangement between the SNP & SCons between 2007-2011, and who suggested that Salmond would be taking up a seat in the HoL after resigning as FM.

    Farquharson’s a kind of male menopausal David Torrance, spouting his airheaded trolling on Twitter to try and (slightly more successfully) raise his media profile.

  16. Tackety Beets says:

    JM QC , I always find him measured & reasoned on twitter.

    Infact I enjoy his tweets , do not always agree , but he earns my respect.

    Kenny F is exactly that Kenny F*****

    WTF is wrong with those types , can they still not see it ?

  17. ScottieDog says:

    Yep KF has blind faith in the British establishment regardless of it’s actions. I think they call it nationalism.

  18. Liz g says:

    Westminster know violence,they are pretty good at violence,so ofcourse that’s how they would like it to go.

    We would be playing on their turf if we did that.

    We are winning without it and we are going to go right on winning without it.

    This is the one time while we are still under that bloody Treaty they don’t write the play book.

  19. dakk says:

    Brute force is a core Britnat value,so no surprise to hear another Yoon roaster like Kenny Farquarson give credence to its efficacy.

  20. Dr Jim says:

    Well you can’t say Murdo Fraser hasn’t been doing his best to get it going for at least the last two years, could anybody be more murdery

    And well, Ruthie’s got a tank and she knows how to use it

    Aw hey, time for a musical don’t you think

    Over to you Moodievision

  21. Macart says:

    So peaceful democratic persuasion and an equitable political settlement isn’t to be awarded according to Mr Farquharson?

    Is he aware by this point of just how such an opinion makes him appear do you think?

  22. Proud Cybernat says:

    So KF is basically saying that bullets and bombs, not democracy, will get you what you want.

    Really? I mean REALLY?

    Idiot on stilts.

  23. Tackety Beets says:

    Exactly X sticks

    Ireland unified and a wee alliance with iScotland.
    That was my exact thoughts on June 24th 2016 & until MM resigned, I felt it was a serious option.

    How WM deals with NI going forward is yet to be revealed.

    The establishment is continually reeling from pillar to post …….I feel a referendum comin’ on …… BIG SMILEY FING

  24. Thepnr says:

    There will be a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland once the UK has left the EU. There will have to be one simply because the EU can’t accept that goods manufactured in the UK could be exported tariff free to the rest of the EU via Irish ports.

    The same applies to an Independent Scotland, hard border with England.

    We will just have to accept that to be the case if we want to run our own country. There will be no special cases granted by the EU, any believing that they will is deluding themselves.

  25. Dek says:

    KF is either very desperate for something to say or an agent provocateur. Scotland will win its independence back by non violent means. If any person dies as a result of this ” Ulsterisation” fantasy the journalists who promote it will have blood on their hands.

  26. HandandShrimp says:


    Kenny is saying that where we are going wrong is not enough AK47s?

    Not sure I like his train of thought.

  27. Alan Ferrier says:

    “if Scottish nationalists want to get a better deal from the rUK then they really need to start blowing bits of it up pronto.”

    I can virtually guarantee that this is going to be regurgitated, completely out of context, by the usual suspects…

  28. Artyhetty says:

    The unionist media would love nothing more than some kind of violence to happen in Scotland on the subject of independence. It would fill them with glee and fill their pockets very nicely,

    It must really rile them that independence is becoming a more realistic and certain concept for many, bit by bit, and it’s happening peacefully.

    Watch put for false flag and electricity black outs, if things really get going once the Brexshit starting gun is fired!

  29. galamcennalath says:

    Does Kenny Farquarson really understand what he is saying? To say a history of violence means you get a special deal, while sticking strictly to the democratic process means you get nothing, is truly awful.

    Does he really believe violence counts, democracy doesn’t?

    Yoons be mad!

  30. Ken500 says:

    Like a majority of British Unionists illegally raining bombs all over the Middle East, causing the worst migration crisis in Europe since 11WW causing death and poverty indescriminatation all over Europe, That didn’t work well. A person breaking the Law by advocating illegal violence and hate speech. Supporting breaking the Law and illegal discrimination between people. Supporting illegal bigotry. Supporting an illegal weapon system and advocating violence. STV could not afford some people. Newspaper sales will fall even more.

  31. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Much as I would hate to see border posts at Gretna, should it happen, so be it – it will have been England’s choice.

    Once brexit is triggered, and the full realisation of what is happenng hits Middle England (well, saying this is maybe a triumph of hope over expectation, Middle England isn’t too bright), all Hell will break loose.

    The Scottish Government will be able to say: “We told you this was a bad move, we tried everything we could to expain this to you, but, you wouldn’t listen – we’re leaving”.

    Then, when we go, the Tories will reap an awful whirlwind.

  32. A. Graham says:

    I will VERY worried about agents provocateurs.

    All sorts of sneaky stuff is going to happen. It will not be fun.

  33. Liz g says:

    Meh… If Westminster need a border…Let them get oan with it.
    Personally I’m struggling tae care.
    Might be fun watching southern English drivers getting their passport oot and lookin fur it in Newcastle.

  34. John Jones says:

    Perhaps we should ask George Soros or the CIA to finance regime change, its worth a few millions to finance another ref. It seems to work in other countries it’s even started in the US.

  35. ScottishPsyche says:

    So we just don’t want independence enough?
    Oh dear, Farq really hasn’t thought this through, has he?

  36. Capella says:

    I thought it was an Armalite or an AK47. He’s not very well infòrmed about revolutioary movements and their weapons of choice. Should read more.

  37. NI cost them money. England costs us money. Bunch of politically perverted nutcases. That’s just the way they think.

  38. Ken500 says:

    There has been peace in NI because of the power sharing agreement in the 90’s. It is still a fragile peace because of Unionist intransigence. Getting increased funding (pro rata) does help maintain it after the damage done to the Irish economy by Unionist ignorance, intransigence and sheer illegal cruelty for centuries. Black and Tans. Irish famine. Mass Home Rule Movement. The illegal Partition of Ireland. Bigotry and discrimination.

  39. Alasdair MacLennan says:

    One of the winning arguments and admirable characteristics of Scottish Nationalism is, that it has and always will be, non violent and democratic!

    Without doubt that has been taken in uk government circles to mean we are not as committed as others and can be ignored. However I’d respond by saying we will achieve our goals using the non violent democratic path quicker than others have or will using violence.

    It became clear to McGuiness and Adams violence was a bull work against a united Ireland and exacerbated division, they changed tact and to their and their partners credit, violence has diminished and society in Northern Ireland has changed for good and better.

    So the unionist lachie from the English establishment paper is saying because Scots are non violent, they can be ignored. What a ridiculous and counter productive position to take.

    Is it his and his papers belief that if Scots use violence to pursue our political aims we will be rewarded – what a complete clown!

    Divide and rule in 2017 is still practised by our colonial masters and their lachies!

    I wonder how much he gets paid to produce this “dangerous’ nonsense?

  40. Liz Rannoch says:

    If anybody’s going to try whipping it up it’ll be the unionist side remember George Sq? It’s the way they think.

    @ A Graham agreed. I think they may have started getting ready for something with their extra MOD polis at Faslane. Would they try to ‘keep the land for the Crown’?

    Let them build their border – and pay for it.

  41. Cliff Mccabe says:

    Mental terry kelly argued this with me in 2014 his point being that Indy supporters in Scotland didn’t deserve Indy because they were cowards not prepared to maim and kill to achieve their aim. I am sure he will feel vindicated now that his craziness has become mainstream.

  42. HandandShrimp says:

    In other news, all flights into Heathrow and Gatwick are fog bound. has that other zoomer Murdo demanded that Humza resign yet?

  43. Ken500 says:

    People should go into a book store and read a book on Irish and Scottish/British history. Ignorance is no excuse for poor journalism. Or google a few facts. Be more informed. Instead of showing ignorance and their prejudice on Twitter. Showing themselves up.

  44. Muscleguy says:


    That is already a possibility with the EFTA countries, Turkey etc. There are systems to counter it such as place of origin labelling requirements. It also operates within the EU. Remember how Italy used to export more olive oil than they produced?

    In the modern world with the way products are traced the options for getting around the regulations will be small and enforcement will be focussed and those trying it will be prosecuted heavily pour encourage les autres.

    As an argument against open borders that one is simply ignorant of how things work now. Various scandals over time have caused tightenings up. Carousel frauds and the horsemeat scandal both contributed. It is part of the red tape that business complains about, having to account for all their inputs.

    It won’t change after Brexit, not if rUK wants to export to the EU it won’t.

    Will there be scandals and mislabelling and smuggling? of course. Will they significant? no and those trying will get caught. The businesses in Ireland or Scotland will risk EU prosecution and sanction. I don’t see what would be in their interests to take part in it.

    Brexit will cause companies with parts of them in the different jurisdictions big headaches. Some will do their sums and move. I expect most will mover from Brexit to EU but there may be some moving the other way too.

  45. Brian Powell says:

    Former Scottish Labour MP John Reid, now baron of Cardowan, tried quite hard to peddle this in the run up to the Indy Referendum.

    I’d forgotten his name but in the process of finding it I saw an article from Nov 2014, where Scottish Labour expected to lose up to 20 seats. Shock horror.

  46. Ken500 says:

    Nuclear devices were moved out of the rest of the UK – 20mins from London in 1992.

  47. Breeks says:

    I don’t even think it’s about Ireland.

    If the UK was a marriage of two people, Westminster would be the bullying husband who wouldn’t let us speak for ourselves and insist we sat at the back, wore humdrum and joyless clothes so the whole world wouldn’t look at us. No nice hair-dos or high heels for Scotland. More often than not we’d left at home with a mountain of chores while the man of the house was running the streets like a drunken lout working up a temper that would all be our fault.

    Ireland is allowed a drink, because she can handle it. Not you Scotland. Here. Put a smile on your coupon, sit there quietly. Keep your trap shut and you can have an orange juice. And no, you can’t have your phone back, you’ll only fill your head with daft ideas from Europe.

    Scotland is trapped in an abusive relationship. It really is that simple.

    We get up, we leave, and rue the fact we never did it sooner.

  48. Dr Jim says:

    It’s no wonder the population has begun to wake up to what “Journalists” do in their desperate pursuit of news creation, and the kind of politicians who are right behind it

    No matter the consequences it’s great fun to report what you helped create
    Must be so satisfying for them

  49. defo says:

    Deep sleeper KF, isn’t.
    Shallow screamer, more like.

    Baggsy punishment bludgeoning’s.
    Cudgel at the ready

  50. Robert Louis says:

    The bottom line is simply this, the unionists are trying desperately to create a valid reason for NO hard border in Ireland, but, somewhat magically, an absolute desperate need for such a hard border with Scotland.

    Unionists clutching at straws, yet again, trying to create a rationale for continuation of London colonial rule of Scotland, and how it’s got to be different for Scotland, just because.

  51. galamcennalath says:

    Breeks says:

    We get up, we leave, and rue the fact we never did it sooner.

    Indeed. For many in 2014 Indy was desirable, in 2018 it will have become a necessity! And hopefully well above 50%.

    It wouldn’t surprise me at all if 10 years from now, in iScotland many folks will be wishing they had done “it sooner”.

  52. Macart says:

    Spookily, I don’t think Farage, Bojo or Gove gave a thought, or indeed a shit, about the societal and constitutional consequences for the rest of the UK in their rush to leave and put the ‘great’ back into Great Britain (Yes, I know about the terminology and it’s their usage, not mine).

  53. brewsed says:

    In its paper describing the various ways Scotland could remain part of the single market, the Scottish Government also spelt out why a hard border would not be necessary, irrespective of what happens in the island of Ireland. Various commentators have previously pointed out that customs inspections mostly happen at the point of despatch and arrival, not in transit, the paperwork is handled electronically and borders only need camera verification of transiting vehicles. Kenny Farquharson gets top marks for ignorance.

    Suggesting Ireland would maintain an open border to protect the peace process, i.e. because of the otherwise potential for violence without realising that inter-alia this would also, potentially, apply to Scotland compounds the display of ignorance.

    Violence has very unpredictable consequences. Childish and childlike considerations of violence is the frustrated petulant response to denial. Denial of what though? Perhaps the dawning reality the Scotland is going to become an independent nation.

  54. galamcennalath says:

    Macart says:

    Spookily, I don’t think Farage, Bojo or Gove gave a thought …

    Perhaps it’s because they didn’t think they would win! Especially in the case of BoJo. That first weekend after the vote he looked distraught at the outcome. He had campaigned to become leader, not actually leave!

    They had no plan. They have few thoughts. They had never considered the complexity and the implications.

    Cameron did it twice. A referendum should be about a block of well documented changes versus status quo. He screwed up 2014 & 2016.

    Our Indy ref began that way, but as Cameron thought he could lose it changed to Indy versus ‘something indeterminate and undocumented’, and that won.

    EURef began as Cameron’s EU plan versus ‘something indeterminate and undocumented’, and that won too! Allowing this was madness.

    Is it any surprise the results of both referendums have been left inconclusive and mutually incompatible?

  55. P irate says:

    Actually if you look deep enough there is a cash cow or two? And hidden agendas obscured by being macro sighted.

    The open border deal for NI means a “border without” into the EU for rUK – as Eire is a member. Its the repeating of bias trade deals that UK wants from the brexit negs…. but the EU will scupper , no cherry picking – well directly at least. However the EU may be the blocker of such a scenario of borderless for NI and yet not for Scotland.

    For Banks its easy enough , or for North of England Trade to be rebadged – say like how money laundering works , or via single person EU offices for UK mainland production , or in reverse from EU imports via EIRE and on through NI …. in one door British made , out another product of Eire , back through English ports onto EU.

    Or you can look at it as the dismantling of EIRE itself from the EU by sleekit means – seeing as how the UK is the port of export for Ireland’s ROTW AND EU exports , then all it takes is moving all export trade from EIRE through NI onto England , or blocking it with tarrifs if they refuse – thus creating if not protecting English jobs at the cost ones in Irish ports and haulage…..while also removing the competitiveness of Irish exports via increased pricing outwith their own control.

    EIRE is thus held over a barrel for imports and exports – bias weighted UK imports/exports , and as I said the trade has to come through or go out of English ports.

    Scotland can expect the same. Hence the Hard Border…. But.

    The onus is on the non EU member to secure their border , assuming Scotland goes indy and EU , so the need for a border will only be at Englands cost , on the English side – thus they would back down as they are the larger trade partner by importing into Scotland .

    Plus you would get the sort of investment into Scottish Ports with potential customers like EIRE , and for its own EU imports exports should England adopt the tarrifs for transit – removing the power of those super ports , channel tunnel , in the SE of England which will suffer as a result of Brexit already.

  56. Marie Clark says:

    Macart @ 11.27 ” Spookily, I don’t think Farage, Bojo or Gove gave a thought, or indeed a shit, about societal and constitutional consequences for the rest of the UK in their rush to leave and put the ‘great’ back into Great Britain. ( Yes, I know about the terminology and it’s their usage, not mine).

    Your bang on the money with that comment Sam. In fact, I don’t think that they actually gave a thought to winning. It was all a great wheeze this bun fight for the Tory party, for that’s what it was. The morning after, they shit themselves when they realised that they had won. Nae idea whit tae dae noo, so they aw’ ran awa. Stupid, arrogant numpties.

    As for Kenny Farq, good grief. There’s another yin that hisnae thocht through whit he wis sayin. Whit’s an AK45 onywies. Is it no an AK47, but I ken nothin aboot guns, and I reckon I’ll keep it that way.

    Scotland will regain her independence, hopefully without a drop of blood spilt. That’s the wish on our side, I’m no so sure aboot the ither side.

  57. Fergus Green says:

    One reason we achieved 45% in 2014 was the fact that the YES campaign mostly presented their case in an informed, referenced and dignified manner and did not become over-frustrated by the process. The difference in Ireland is that some elements did become frustrated and resorted to violence.

    Kenny Farquarson’s tweets appear to legitimise violence as a means to an end, but and I suspect he would not be too distraught if a few agents provocateurs chucked a few petrol bombs around in Scotland to discredit our movement.

    The last recorded incident of this kind was back in the 70s with an organisation calling itself the Scottish Liberation Army, whoever they were. Thin pickings for this Times churnalist.

  58. Breastplate says:

    Very true Breeks,
    I’m also very sure after we get independence, you’ll be hard pushed to find anyone that will admit voting No.

  59. Bob MACK says:

    Violence to end oppression is all they know, and all they see as possible.

    For the past year we have been hearing their talk of Ulsterisation in Scotland. This has the effect of deepening divisions caused by violence in an already divided country. There can only be one winner in that scenario. Westminster. They impose direct rule and brand those seeking independence dissidents of the “dangerous ” variety.

    We will win by other means thank you very much. I am always wary of those promoting drastic action before all other options have been attempted.

    Violence in fact equates to Westminster rule in perpetuity.

  60. Willie John says:

    I’m trying, and failing, to picture Mandella or Ghandi with an AK47 in their hands.

  61. Greannach says:

    I’d say the purpose of Farquharson’s tweet was to see if he could get any nutters to agree, then write up a few articles about the threat of violent thugs taking to arms. Job done. Fee earned. Profile raised.

  62. Desimond says:

    Its just all Squirrel pish isn’t it?

    I was gonna write a Scotland\Ireland piece there and then thought “In conclusion, that’s exactly what KF wants..distraction”.

    With each day edging closer to UK destruction, the craziness increases ( and Ruths appearances diminish!). Just keep smiling and nodding folks..theyre slowly driving themselves insane.

  63. mike d says:

    A.graham. 11am absolutely,when it looks like Scottish independence is inevitable,Westminsters black ops mob will try to sow mayhem and trouble in Scotland.

  64. Thepnr says:

    Once the UK leaves the EU they will have automatically erected hard borders with 27 other EU countries. No longer will we walk through the blue channel on our arrival for a holiday in Spain, we will be joining the slow queue at passport control along with all those from outwith the EU.

    We will no longer be EU citizens so will be treated as such, it’s as simple as that.

    Only by becoming Independent and remaining in the EU can we avoid that. I’m voting Yes next time same as the last time. I can do this by putting an X in a box, the AK47 has no place in the future I want for Scotland and for her people.

  65. Nuada says:

    I’m an Irishman married to a Scots lass, a card carrying member of the SNP. I’ve followed Scottish politics closely over the last decade, and, while I did not want to be the one to raise the issue, for a long time now I’ve been unable to see how this is going to end without guns. Really, I haven’t. This is how it looks to me.

    1) The UK is actually Greater England. Yes, the English, if you ask them will all be able to tell you the supposed difference between the UK, Great Britain and England, but they don’t believe a word of it, not in their hearts. They never have. I spend a good deal of time down in the English provinces, and I’m telling you that where the English are English (outside of the big cities, where they have to live and let live), it’s a different world and they don’t give a rattling damn about Scotland, Wales or anywhere else. All they’re seeing is whinging Jocks, people whose nationality they will not on any account accept as different from their own and they simply don’t care.

    2) They’re up for Brexit in a big way. They’re seeing the demise of Johnny Foreigner and they like it, and even the remainers are coming around to it.

    3) When the British Empire is not reconstituted the day after Brexit, the reality will start to bite. Disillusionment will begin to set in and the Tories – who are, for the foreseeable future, unassailable – will happily start the kind of cuts that Margaret Thatcher could only dream of. And whatever they might do to their own people in England, they’ll do to Scotland – where they have no support and don’t care – what the Luftwaffe did to Coventry.

    4) Without the EU running interference, they’re going to send Britain back to the Edwardian, and all the crippling social ills of that era are going to come racing back, only this time their will be no progressive belief that it can all be changed by constitutional progress. The UK will become a hell on Earth, and Scotland will be the ninth circle. There’ll be no constitutional way out. The Vow, and the contempt that was shown to Scotland after it served its purpose should be all the proof you need that London will do whatever it takes to uphold “Greater England”, however technocratic or paramilitary that might be.

    5) Once that realization takes hold – perhaps 15 or 20 years from now – the same thing is going to happen in Scotland as happened in Northern Ireland.

    Gloomy analysis? Maybe, but from where I’m standing, I see only one way to avoid it. You simply MUST win Indyref 2, because if you don’t the future is not worth contemplating.

  66. Jack Murphy says:

    Scottish Parliament will have Article 50 Vote.

    “Scotland’s first minister has said that MSPs will be given a vote on the triggering of Article 50 regardless of a Supreme Court ruling on the issue.

    The Supreme Court is due to rule on Tuesday whether the UK parliament needs to give its approval before Article 50 is triggered.
    The Scottish government argued that Holyrood should be given a say too.
    Nicola Sturgeon has now said MSPs will have a vote regardless of the outcome of the case……”

    All five parties in the Scottish Parliament backed the UK remaining in the EU ahead of last year’s referendum.

    BBC on-line:

  67. Macart says:

    @Marie and galamcennalath

    Pretty much. It was a tory pissing contest gone out of control. It was about pecking order, political careers and profile. The problem was the media narrative they’d ALL fostered over the years was already a runaway train. The mob was in full on frustrated stampede mode, egged on by right wing reactionary media.

    Now the politicians are running WITH the mob and attempting to direct or channel its momentum for their own purpose, if possible. If not? They figure at least they won’t be caught and trampled in its path. (shrugs).

    Their choice.

  68. Liz g says:

    Also worth pointing out that the end result of all that violence is a devolved administration that Westminster can take over at anytime if things go wrong.
    And I suspect lock down from the British Army if things get out of control again.
    That’s not what we are looking for. QED no the method we need then!

  69. Short Changed says:

    There is one difference, the 1949 Ireland act. The act declares that the ROI is not a foreign country which is why their citizens living in the UK could vote on Brexit. The Scots on the other hand would be foreigners. No sign of Westminster offering a Scotland act…

  70. Capella says:

    O/T Meanwhile – how the other half live:

    “Game hunting ex-Prime Minister David Cameron names birds after Brexiteers Boris Johnson and Michael Gove before shooting them, it has emerged.

    Cameron, a keen shooter, said when he takes aim at a bird he imagines it is called ‘Boris’ or ‘Michael’ – a vent, perhaps, for vengeful thoughts after the Tory rivals destroyed his leadership in the EU referendum… Conservative MP Jake Berry recently claimed Cameron once had someone cut the crusts off his toast for him during a Tory party getaway.”

    Cameron was paid a 5 figure sum for a speech at the Bankers bash in Davos.

  71. Scotland is too big, too rich, too clever, for the English to lose control.
    She who hesitates, probably knows something the rest of us don’t.
    NS has presented Big T with her proposals to keep Scotland within the EU Trading Bloc and control its own immigration.
    She and the rest of us are biding our time. My pitchfork is in the loft should it be needed. Aye, right.
    Mundell, who increasingly comes across as a dithering nervous wreck, demands more’ evidence’, while his fellow Scots citizens know full well that he is a joke even among his Cabinet colleagues.
    Scotland is NOT Northern Ireland.
    This fuckwit of a Churno, presumably one of the hundreds of Adolph Eichmans who were only obeying their rich proprietors’ orders, whom Kevin McKenna was trying to defend the other day, joins Torrance, WATP Adam Tomkins, The Queen’s Eleven Murdo Fraser, to name but a few,in attempting to rabble rouse, hoping that the mad Yoons and the Nats, the knuckledraggers will take to the streets, a la George Square 19th Sept ’14, and start killing each other for ‘the cause’.
    This idiot in beneath contempt.
    He knows in his heart of hearts that Scotland will be an independent nation soon now, and that as a member of the EU, we shall be first port of call for finance houses. manufacturers, and multinationals ‘Eulocating’ back into the European Union.
    Bathgate, Livingson, the Clyde, Inverness, Perth, the Borders, ripe for redevelopment in this too big too rich too clever Scottish rival to English dominance of these isles.
    I’d build a wall 60 feet high to keep this evil little turd INSIDE England.
    My wife is from Belfast, and grew up during what is euphemistically referred to as ‘The Troubles.’
    This idiot doesn’t have a clue. He’s ‘just obeying orders’ of course. SNP VIOLENT next?

  72. Habib Steele says:

    Breeks says, “Scotland is trapped in an abusive relationship. It really is that simple.” Elsewhere I’ve seen Scotland described as having Munchausen syndrome. I think it’s really Munchausen syndrome by proxy. The English who dominate Westminster, and therefore dominate Scotland, inculcate it in us to meet the needs of the English elite. Perhaps that previous sentence is not entirely fair. The Scottish elite, who identity themselves as British rather than Scottish are also to blame. Eg Gordon Brown – North British, not Scottish. Do we all realise that North British really means North English?

  73. Hugh Wallace says:

    Thepnr says:
    23 January, 2017 at 10:45 am
    “There will be a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland once the UK has left the EU. There will have to be one simply because the EU can’t accept that goods manufactured in the UK could be exported tariff free to the rest of the EU via Irish ports… There will be no special cases granted by the EU, any believing that they will is deluding themselves.”

    Eh? What about Sweden & Norway? Ok, there is EFTA but that wasn’t always the case. The EU is nothing if not flexible and pragmatic in its outlook.

    Personally, I am increasingly of the opinion that iScotland is going to want a hard border with England; but that is another topic for another time.

  74. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Jack Murphy @ 12.10pm

    Very interesting. Once Nicola places this issue up for debate, it will be revealing to see what the red, blue and yellow Tories do.

    If they oppose and say: “Brexit means Brexit”, it merely demonstrates their dependence on the support, financial and otherwise, of their Engish colleagues, and that they will always put England before Scotland.

    If they support the SNP they are in big trouble with Headquarters down in London.

    What will they do – they cannot simply hide behind SNP Baaaaaddddd!

  75. JustinFnMinty says:

    Hard boarder ,good ,then no more drug mules running up to Scotland from Liverpool and Wolverhampton to ruin young lives in our country side and fishing ports

  76. bjsalba says:

    To be honest I would not worry too much about a hard border. I am sure that there would be no problems transporting good from and into Scottish seaports and airports directly from Europe. More jobs for Scotland, less traffic and pollution for England. What’s not to like?

  77. galamcennalath says:

    Nicola talking tough.

    Sturgeon: MSPs will vote on Brexit no matter what judges rule

    I’m wondering if this means the judges have decided Holyrood’s permission is not required, and Nicola already knows this.

  78. Thepnr says:


    That was a good post and I would agree with your points 1 to 4. I disagree entirely with point number 5 though.

    5) Once that realization takes hold – perhaps 15 or 20 years from now – the same thing is going to happen in Scotland as happened in Northern Ireland.

    The same thing won’t happen, look at the past, Scots hated Thatcher more than any other country. She was shown the red card by almost everyone when she attended the Scottish Cup final in 1988. She was “Guest of Honour” but was sent a clear message that was peaceful.

    But during her time in power where were there riots in Scotland? There were none, they were riots and mayhem in Toxteth in Liverpool and St Pauls in Bristol or Brixton in London.

    There were riots more recently in Croydon and in other parts of London, there were none in Scotland. I believe we do things differently here, just as we’re doing now, that is to discuss, argue and debate.

    That’s how we will gain OUR Independence, though talking and convincing others, not with guns, we’re smarter than that.

  79. Fred says:

    Some good troll-free stuff this fine day. Nuada is right about the English, you only have to check the Guardian posts! & that’s supposedly an enlightened paper? 🙂

    Kenny Farquharson? P45 would be more appropriate!

  80. MyNameIsNowALieLikeYours says:

    What I want to know is…
    …just what is a hard border?

    So I’m on a train from Glasgow to London and there’s a hard border? What happens? A guard walks through the train, checking passports. Big deal.

    Goods on trucks being carried by roads, what happens? Checking of papers and passports, perhaps randomly selecting every 10th truck to do a more thorough search?

    If it’s the same companies transporting goods across the border, would they get a “special pass” (assuming vetting of drivers, regular inspection of premises etc) they just wave to the border guards and they get waved through?

    …just what is a hard border?

  81. Breeks says:

    Said it before; kinda, but rUK staying broadly comparable to the EU in economic and institutional terms makes an open border seem like a formality, however if the UK backs away from European practices in favour of US practices and standards, as will follow on a US led TTIP Trade Deal, then Europe, and that means us, will be obliged to bring in border controls.
    These will not be controversial. It will be us who will want them. We will be one of the very few European states with a land border to the former UK. If we don’t want Scottish products tarnished by English reputation, remember BSE, then the distinction English and Scottish goods may be ours to maintain.
    That means animal passports, traceability, vet checks in abattoirs, etc…All the things a European Trade Deal makes unnecessary. If we don’t have a border to control the movement of livestock, our EU trade may suffer for it.

  82. Lest he feels left out, I should add James Kelly, of OBF infamy, the one man political wing of the Green Brigade, the ‘I will not sit down’ Zombie from Ru’glen, to my list of inciters of hate for hate’s sake.
    Pass the cranberry sauce, Judas.

  83. Thepnr says:

    @Hugh Wallace

    Norway as a member of the EEA and EFTA has to contribute to the EU. You get nothing for nothing. Do you think the UK after it leaves the EU will be treated like Norway?

    Well it won’t, not unless is joins EFTA and makes a contribution to the EU just the same as they do. That ain’t gonnie happen.

  84. Iain says:

    Hadn’t picked up that he had withdrawn to ‘a federal UK’ barricade. Is that the last one?

    Some unionists have called the SNP a ‘cult’ – in which case every movement for national self-government comprises a ‘cult’.

    The ‘cult’ mentality is truly apparent when a movement, as a group of people, becomes more important to those people than the principles on which it was founded. They stick with the group, desperately believing, whatever revisions are imposed on the ideology by self-serving leaders. Thus Farquharson, Hothersall et al, in the Labour Party.

  85. Dave Hansell says:

    People like KF should be careful of what they wish for. Nuada’s 12:08 post about the England which exists outside the metropols is accurate up to a point but assumes a homogeneity on both sides of the binary he/she presents which is far more complex.

    There certainly exists very large contingents amongst the English population who are so contrarian they would be prepared to suffer any outcome one could imagine from a hard Brexit and these islands turned into a pre industrial revolution feudal dystopia in terms of economic, social and political relationships and at the same time be prepared to die in a ditch with everyone beside them to deny the reason for why that is so, preferring to blame the cure rather than the disease they will complain about. And boy, will they complain. For moaning consumes their entire being.

    However, not everyone is cut from the same cloth. When it becomes apparrent what May and the feudal English aristocracy along with their paid presstitutes and security heavies are about the cultural and other strains which exist down here will boil over and KF’S little boy fantasy will emerge a lot closer to home. If England wishes to survive as a civilised entity it must Lance the boil by which it, along with populations outside it’s borders because of it, suffers from. This will be messy and not for the squeamish or faint hearted.

  86. Clootie says:

    The British Empire created N/Ireland to protect the last parts of the Empire. Having created such “Brutishness” they are left in a quandary as regards dealing with the mess created. However unlike Africa and India they simply cannot walk away.

    Whitehall has great expertise in division in order to rule. They sadly lack the skill to work with others as equals. The only difference between the two cases is in regard to where the interest of London stands. The nation’s of Ireland and Scotland will always be secondary to London.

    The hold on N/Ireland is helped by an open border.
    The hold on Scotland would be weakened by acceptance of an open border.
    It is not a logic driven debate it is the same old, same old Empire tool kit being opened.

  87. Thepnr says:

    The “Magnus Effect” is a force that is applied to spinning objects like a bender David Beckham free kick or an Andy Murray backhand that lands in the opposite corner you expected the ball to land.

    It is though a weak force much like Kenny Farquharson and his bullshit propaganda.

  88. Effijy says:

    Special deal for N.Ireland in not having a European Border, Special deal for Gibraltar- In the EU but not the EU Customs, Special Deal for the Channel Islands- not in the EU but in their Customs Union, Special deal for Japanese Car manufacturers in England- who will have any future trade tariffs paid for them by you and I.

    Special Deal for Scotland where they get absolutely Nothing Special, other than Westminster deceit and corruption Max.

  89. galamcennalath says:

    … much of the Scottish political commentariat clings doggedly to the implausible dream of a “federal” UK …

    ‘Implausable’ indeed. Has there ever been a federation of countries? I think not.

    A federated UK would require Scotland to cease being a country (one of the two of the UK) and become a state in a federation.

    A federation requires federal law as well as state level law. There is no British law, there are two distinct systems. Scots and English law would need to be merged. We can all imagine what that would actually mean!

    England would need to be broken up into chunks so each state was around the same size. England would have little meaning. Would they like that?

    Is each English state to have the same (still limited) devolved powers as Holyrood (and Belfast)? I doubt very much. So for federation to work it would seem powers would have to go from Scotland to the new federal government.

    When people propose a federal solution, they are proposing absorbing Scotland once and for always into the Great England Federation.

    Perhaps that is what they actually want!

  90. Luigi says:

    RMAC says:

    23 January, 2017 at 10:34 am

    AK45, that must be similar to a P45, he’s such a poor journalist that he hasn’t bothered to research his material properly. If he had he would know that the terrorists favourite weapon is the AK47 or AK74.

    Maybe we shouldn’t be too hard on the poor dope. After all, yoon journos never were any good at numbers. 🙂

  91. Jimmy Crawford says:

    Here’s the thing: Once the actual “union” between Scotland and England is gone, what are Ulster unionists going to use as their rallying cry, because they sure as hell can’t be unionists anymore?

    I suppose they could call themselves Queens?

  92. Luigi says:

    Clootie says:

    23 January, 2017 at 1:07 pm

    The British Empire created N/Ireland to protect the last parts of the Empire. Having created such “Brutishness” they are left in a quandary as regards dealing with the mess created. However unlike Africa and India they simply cannot walk away.

    I get the impression that WM would dearly love to walk away from NI if they could. Unfortunately for them, NI doesn’t want to go and to ditch them would cause mayhem and destruction, not to mention a massive loss of Blighty face.

    They want rid of NI, but NI refuses to go. WM stuck with an almighty pain in the posterior.

    They desperately want to keep Scotland, but Scotland continues to drift in the opposite direction.

    This cannot possibly end well for the UK. It’s a funny old world, so it is.:)

  93. Greannach says:

    Jimmy Crawford @ 1:18

    Don’t say that to Arlene Foster or Iris Robinson!

  94. heedtracker says:

    They very ugly face of a Murdoch goon. Its clearly a serious issue. Look at the Heil, Express, SUN style fury at immigration and immigrants. The tragedy of Jo Cox MP is more than just a warning on how dangerous the right are, in newsrooms or on the streets.

  95. Les Wilson says:

    Thoughts of violence are reckless thoughts, we are getting where we want to go without it. It may take longer but when done there will be ways to work with our neighbours, despite initial spats with Westminster. They would suffer a whole lot too by making half cocked decisions in order to belittle Scotland.

    They should be grateful for what they have squeezed out of us up to this point.Yet,they will not be, as they need everything we have and will grieve to have lost it all.
    They will try all ways to hurt us but will end up, making things worse for themselves.

    After initial problems they will realise that to work with Scotland is their best move, for many reasons.

    So violence, er no. However to get to our goal we do need to up our game, we need to challenge them much more, dispute their dubious stats at every opportunity and be much more vocal about it.
    We need to show them up for what they are loudly, and with a higher passion than we have released so far. We need to show them as the secret occupying force they are, and how negative they are for our future aspirations.

    We need to fight them all the way,just not with violence, which would make divides for decades whatever the result.That is not good for us, nor for them.

  96. Dougall McWilliam says:

    The likes of KF make you wonder of any of the self created positive images of britain were ever or are true? Or merely an invention to camouflage murky goings on?

    The Times, AKA The Thunderer, has been given the mantle of being a bastion of truth and campaigning for justice.

    Closer examination reveals it to be the play thing of a media mogul staffed by the likes of KF who will print what their owner and his politcal pals want.

    Makes you wonder what journalists think their future will be in an independent Scotland?

  97. Daisy Walker says:

    Ever since the Brexit result, I have been deeply concerned that the British Establishment would provoke violence in Scotland in an attempt to de-rail Indy Ref 2 the more likely it becomes.

    England is bankrupt and the only thing keeping her afloat is Scotland’s assets. Those in production and those in the ground.

    However, I think the game has moved on somewhat. Ex army told me that the Northern Ireland troubles stopped, not because of 20 years of bombs, murder and mayhem.

    But because of the last 2 bombs specifically – which had almost no deaths – Canary Wharf and Manchester City Centre. (I’m doing this from memory, so no offence is meant by any inaccuracy).

    These bombs hit the big financial companies, the phone was picked up, the PM was contacted, and the army was pulled out within a year.

    This week we’re seeing the news, 1000’s of bank jobs leaving London, with more on the way. The British Gvt has done its own Canary Wharf and big finance will go where the trading is profitable, safe, organised, and where it can get the staff it needs for that purpose.

    The WM government has just lost her backer when it comes to civil war on her doorstep, and she pulled the pin all by herself.

  98. Dan Huil says:

    If things go against them we shouldn’t be surprised if britnats instigate violence just so they can say Scotland can’t govern itself. Bloody Project Fear.

  99. Andy-B says:

    People like KF will say just about any old tosh, to justify their ludicrous position, on a hard border between Scotland and England.

  100. Macart says:

    Worth pointing out in light of media rhetoric and the appalling events of the EU referendum.

    There are those mentally deranged enough who will attempt to foment anger, hatred and violence from this volatile subject. They will do so from corporate greed, political expediency, or simply because they hate.

    Regardless. Anger, violence and societal disruption is in their interest, NOT that of the general public.

  101. dcanmore says:

    Farquharson is longing for violence, the last throws of keeping the Union together. The nasty Nats and their blood and soil nationalism there for all to see, send in the army to put them down! But this is what the ultra-yoons are thinking, anything means anything in keeping the Union together. They would quite happily send in the army to occupy Holyrood if that what it takes. They are the real blood and soil nationalists, the British Army and Navy kept the Empire together for 200 years, so why not the union?

    As for Northern Ireland, down here in London it is never understood, never mentioned or talked about by anyone, like some mythical place they’ve heard but not know of. It’s future, as it stands, is doomed, unloved and unwanted by London.

    When this sort of rhetoric is coming from the most ardent of unionist media then you know they have lost already. What legit arguments they had for keeping the union are all gone, Scottish Labour is gone, Liberal Democrats are gone and all that’s left is the Tories and the batshit-crazy loons that follow them.

    They’ve lost Indyref2 already, all they have left is lies and violence.

  102. ronnie anderson says:

    Ah wiz gonnae buy ah big Cannon but ah wiz feart ah wud git caught in the Mi5 filter trap so’s ah bought a Epson, they do say the pen is mightier than the sword, well the printed leaflets onnyhows.

  103. Bugger (le Panda) says:

    My wee niggle about NI is about the timimg of the unification, as the act is a certain as the Sun rising.

    Where will the OO loonies and gang members go when Mother England abandons them? We saw what they were threatening us with the day after the 1st Ref in Goerge Square.

    I don’t want a unionist stay back team for a foreign power, to manipulate as a deflection from their post Brexit problems.

    I hope they don’t see Scotland as their home from home especially if we haven’t had our Ref and they want a vote here, on that?

    Maybe a Republic very quickly would be a wise move, before the ingress.

  104. frogesque says:

    galamcennalath says:
    23 January, 2017 at 12:37 pm
    Nicola talking tough.

    “ Sturgeon: MSPs will vote on Brexit no matter what judges rule ”

    I’m wondering if this means the judges have decided Holyrood’s permission is not required, and Nicola already knows this.

    My understanding is the SC refused to let Westminster have pre cognisansce of their ruling, it being “too important”. I would imagine this applies to all parties.

    I think Nicola is just loading the cannons.

  105. Meg merrilees says:

    Liz g @4.55am yesterday

    I’ve added my tuppence worth to the discussion on “Where did UKIP come from” on the previous thread.

    Off to buy a bumper bag of popcorn (salt/sweet flavour) before the UKSC announcement tomorrow.

    it seems TM did know about the Trident failure before the H of C vote;

    Is this a warning that violence will happen if we are stupid enough to want to be independent.

    We might need a hard border to keep them out and Border Rievers to keep us safe!

  106. fletch49er says:

    How does someone as inanely stupid as that, get to work in such a potentially influential position?

  107. I repeat, Scotland is too big, too clever, and too rich, for England to ‘let go’.
    This day, two innocent policemen were shot in North Belfast, with the media attributing it to a ‘dissident wing’ of the IRA.
    For KF or any bought and paid for Lord Haw Haw to suggest that the Scottish Independence Campaign needs to turn into a gang of psychopathic killers force the issue, to ‘fight’ to maintain membership of the EU and retain open borders (which I believe more and more of us don’t want) with England is malicious and frankly evil and dangerous nonsense.
    England will only give ground if we start killing each other?
    I reiterate, Scotland is too big, too rich, and too clever.
    The double whammy of leaving the EU, and losing the vast resources and talent of Scotland will sink England; that’s the pre-truth of it all.
    We are too big,too rich, and too clever to let this happen, ye poor unloved Dead Tree Scrollers.

  108. David anderson says:

    Re Farquarson and the AK45, he was probably referring to the 45% who voted yes. Coz he’s dead clever n’ that.

  109. frogesque says:

    @ David anderson 2.54

    I would humbly posit that Kenny Fuckoff wrote AK45 because he is a first order pilloch with the sense of a cabbage.

  110. Thepnr says:

    @Jack Collatin

    “too big, too rich, and too clever”

    Yes I like that and think I will adopt it.

  111. Robert Peffers says:

    @Wullie B says: 23 January, 2017 at 10:22 am:

    ” (Really only kidding Mi5 and any other spook services)”.

    “Oooh! Wullie slipped up there – now it’s far too late.

    These Security Service bods are right on the ball. They have us all well covered and what you should have done was get the just kidding bit in before you cracked the joke.

    Best watch out for black helichoppers, or go into hiding now.

  112. Breeks says:

    So British nuclear subs with no periscopes can crash into other subs and merchant ships and run aground on sandbanks, and fire £17m missiles in the wrong direction…

    Well I certainly hope they find whoever it was who refuses to switch off his mobile phone.

    Does Theresa know who it is? I wonder…

    Don’t get your hopes up for the next thrilling episode of Supreme Court. I suspect you might be getting some hot fudge on your popcorn.
    I’m sure there’s a link there from Brexit to Butterkist but it escapes me for now…

  113. Thepnr says:


    “I would humbly posit that Kenny Fuckoff wrote AK45 because he is a first order pilloch with the sense of a cabbage.”

    Yes I like that too, so much to like on many of todays posts, I think we might be getting somewhere 🙂

  114. ronnie anderson says:


    Jacob Reese Mogg under HoC rules 163 proposed the Missile test was discussed in private, motion voted Down . Not that Hammond is disclosing anything else.

  115. Roger Hyam says:

    AK47s? I thought the IRA used Armalite AR-18s but that is too many characters for twitter and creates cognitive dissonance – surely the baddies can’t be using American weapons!

  116. Tinto Chiel says:

    Hard border or not, I’m looking forward in a few years to driving home through England from my continental holiday and, as I approach Gretna, see the Alba/Scotland with the nice wee extra bit “Welcome to the European Union”.

    KF may be a malicious plank or silly sausage but there’s little doubt The Watchers would love to foment violence here as a last, desperate throw of the Unionist dice and as we won’t play, they’ll have to invent some.

  117. @jaggythistle says:

    No guns
    We are doing just fine this is gone to take a while but we are getting there no need to spoil our country and be all aggressive like the yoons we face daily

  118. Flower of Scotland says:

    Watching the debate on the faulty Trident. What a lying shower the Tories/Labour are.

    One question from the SNP and they shouted throughout. Absolutely no respect!

    Scotland is too big, too clever, and too rich, for England to ‘let go’. Jack Collatin- I like it very much and will use it when I can.

  119. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Ach, Farquharson’s little outburst is just the Unionist case taken to another of its absurdist conclusions. It’s happening more and more these days.

    It’s sad to see how otherwise reasonably intelligent people can be rendered totally daft by clinging onto irredemable political notions long after their “sale by date”. (Until the point of putrefaction, even.)

    Hard border, schmorder. Like other posters here, I’m not losing any sleep over that prospect, whatever happens. Jeez, it’s not like it doesn’t happen with neighbouring countries elsewhere in the world.

    Provided iScotland stays within the EU, the rUK will be forced to play fair with us. After all, the Tories from Theresa on down keep assuring us that they want to agree a good trading relationship with the EU. Scotland then included. So just another example of a Unionist failure to see through to the real logical conclusions.

  120. Proud Cybernat says:

    Post Truth…

  121. bjsalba says:

    @Roger Hyam
    Out of curiosity I did a search on AR18s and also called up images of same. Apart from looking slightly weirder than AK47s I couldn’t see any difference, but then I know almost zilch about firearms.

    I do wish the local newspaper was capable of doing as much research as I did. In the August before Indyref1 they did a screaming article about there being 40,000 guns in the Highlands. The article talked about shotguns and rifles but the picture they used was of a Magnum.

    I may not be able to distinguish an AK47 from an AR18 but I can tell the difference between a handgun and a rifle or shotgun.

  122. gordoz says:

    Kenny seems to think that Ireland has somehow drifted into
    This precarious position and we must all take care.
    When its the mad, bad tories that need to take care. They caused this Brexit stramash as a result of incompetent government and rabid infighting at the heart of little England.
    The buck stops with the Tories on this this and where it leads will rest at their door unless we take another road.

  123. Thepnr says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    Welcome back, had missed your posts.

    I never thought of this before but now I think Project Fear was a reflection of the establishments real fears that were projected onto us? Look at everything that has happened since the referendum.

    I have no idea as to what is going on, we got a majority Tory government that nobody expected, the UK voted to leave the EU that nobody expected. We now have Trump as President which surely nobody expected?

    Project Fear 2 is happening now but things are different, they cannot use pensions, currency or out of the EU anymore and are reduced to using the bogyman of violence on the streets of Scotland. Another baseless threat orchestrated to induce FEAR.

    Like any troll they are best ignored we’re too big, too rich, and too clever to fall for any of that shite. Excuse the profanities but shite is what it is and there is no better description.

    Call a spade a spade, say it like it is. Else say nothing.

  124. ben madigan says:

    worrying to think Kenny Farquharson is espousing the IRA point of view- 20 years or more after the IRA disappeared into history.
    Here’s some advice to Scotland, N.Ireland and ireland as a whole in today’s Brexit debacle
    It comes from Eamonn de Valera, 1916 insurgent, British prisoner and later president of the irish republic. In his 1945 reply to Mr Churchill we see a different topic, the same British attitude, and the same democratic deficit in the UK

    His decision then for Ireland

    “Stand firm, we go our own way”

    resonates for Scotland and Ireland today

  125. Thepnr says:

    @ben madigan

    That was an amazing speech by Eamon de Valera in his reply to Churchill at the end of that article.

  126. HandandShrimp says:

    There is a stridency from the hard line No side that is fascinating. They keep telling themselves and us that they won in 2014 but if you looked at the vitriol in the btl stuff posted and the constantly defensive nonsense people KF produce then it begs the question who really won long term?

    I don’t think it is going to be too long before Yes2 is up and running. Autumn 2018 will be upon us before we know it. Bullshit about significant post Brexit powers will just be as bullshit Brown’s federalism. I would not trust May one inch on this.

  127. Sandy Merry says:

    Time to look out the woad and broadsword methinks and pay a wee visit south!!

  128. Phronesis says:

    Just as the Levellers used the printing press for political purpose to advance their rebellion and strengthen their seditious and tumultuary ways that abolished the HoL and declared the Commonwealth of England as a republic, Scotland’s Indy movement is using social media and cyberspace to distribute rebuttals of the nonsense ramblings of those who would like Scotland to remain a democratic insignificance of a WM elite.

    Failing to understand the inclusive, educational YES movement tells us much of the ignorance and fear that infuses UKOK as it attempts to subvert the independence debate. Harking back to violent times in N. Ireland with reference to Scotland is pathetic. Scotland has been UKOK’s to lose since September 2014- it has neither learned or done anything to reconcile the quest for Scotland’s autonomy with the wishes of those who want Scotland to remain in the UK.

    Before Reconciliation comes Truth- both qualities escape the WM cabal that has relentlessly bombarded the English electorate with messages of how Scotland is too poor, wee and stupid. England should demand that Scotland leaves the UK- which Scotland will do with dignity and in peace. Brexit facilitates that process.

  129. Robert J. Sutherland says:


    Bullshit about significant post Brexit powers will just be as bullshit Brown’s federalism.

    True that. There’ll surely be some chickensh*t offer that will vanish as the mist off the hill after another “no” win, were that to happen. (Perish the thought!) More fools the likes of the NE fishermen who won’t get their mythical quota free-for-all and who will be sold down the river by London in some trade deal, just like last time.

    As for Labour’s zombie federalism, I just wish someone would do a poll in England to see if people there would accept that “solution” in order to keep us. I reckon that the inevitable landslide refusal would sink the daft notion once-and-for-all. And Kez and Willie’s little bands along with it.

  130. ScottieDog says:

    So trident isn’t a “first strike” but a “Second time lucky” weapon.

  131. ScottieDog says:

    @jack collatin
    “Scotland is too big, too rich, and too clever”

    Love it and it’s true.

    Any progressives economist (rules out about 90%) will tell you that a nation which issues its own currency isn’t constrained by revenue but by its own physical resources and it’s ability to import what it cannot produce.

    So that’s what hold us back.

  132. Les Wilson says:

    Ref Trident, I wonder what is america’s real view of it, not the bullshit they will spread across the press.
    I would think that those who make the US policy will be disturbed with what may have happened had it been a loaded warhead, hurling towards America itself.

    Perhaps they will reconsider the UK having Trident at all. Let us hope.

  133. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 16:21,

    Thank you for that kind thought. Somewhat up-and-down health and other distractions of life have temporarily waylaid me. But this thing is just too important to ignore. It’s like an ache that will only go away when we finally achieve that essential goal.

    As to your projection notion, there’s something in it on both sides of the coin, positive as well as negative. I’ve long thought that when Unionist politicians talk about “Better Together”, they are actually projecting onto us their obsessions about their own positions, not least financial. Without English silver, they believe (with justification) that they would inevitably go under. (“Too wee”, etc.) And go hang the fact that the opposite applies in the country at large, and increasingly so as we more fully exploit our abundant energy resources.

    I think it’s the growing realisation that Unionist politicians are abject self-serving sellouts that is driving their decline.

  134. davidb says:

    I had the impression they would try to have no internal border on their island, but the defacto border would become the ports and airports on the big island.

    Will the Irish then be free to join Schengen – which I believe they didn’t because the UK didn’t? Will people from the north who think they are “British” need passports to come to Scotland ( and vice versa )?

    The best thing would be if the English realised their mistake and decided to stay in the EU. Then we can hold our Indyref2 in 2021 after all. All this rush to destruction is just a tiresome farce we could be doing without.

  135. Let the news be spread throughout this bounteous land of ours. We’re too big, too rich, and too clever for them

  136. Thepnr says:


    You post rarely but every one is a gem. Don’t be leaving anytime soon.

  137. Robert Louis says:

    You know the more you think of the missile failure with Trident, which reportedly caused a missile to head for the USA, the more you wonder if Americans are/were aware of what happened.

    How close did the missile get to the USA, and were peoples lives at risk. Given their had been a malfunction of the missile, were they (the USA or UK) certain it could self-destruct before striking mainland USA??

  138. heedtracker says:

    Trident nuke missile based 30 miles from Pacific Quay, goes on £17 million off course mission, Teresa covered it up, Call Kaye this morning wants to talk bus fares.

    Transport Scotland has confirmed that there is going to be a public consultation on the age in which people in Scotland will qualify for a bus pass.
    It is understood current holders of the free bus pass will be unaffected but the programme for government said that it would “examine options to safeguard the longer-term sustainability of the concessionary travel scheme”.

    Free bus passes for the over 60s is one of the scottish government’s flagship policies….but can we afford it?

  139. Bob MACK says:

    What a day.!

    I learned that HMS Vengeance is certificated.
    I learned the crew of HMS Vengeance are certificated.
    I learned the subs systems and subsystems are certificated.

    I learned that the Trident missiles are certifiable

    What a sham. Whilst Fallon adhered to top secrecy line ,a White House spokesperson on CNN was giving full details of the incident. Oh dear.

    I am sure Mr Fallow said that the whole thing was only under UK control and especially the Prime Minister. Yet someone on that ship was able to fully brief the White House and their comma depth. A mole?

  140. velofello says:

    Nicola to the “Supreme” Court, Aye Right.

    Trump, accept him or reject him, is calling out the media in the USA as fake news, and parallel’s what we Indy supporters say of the UK media. Coincidence?

    The EU provides protection to us – be it quality of goods with a EE stamp; Human rRights; travel and career opportunities; medical cover;defence cooperation.

    It would be the height of folly to give up on these benefits. Trump, the deal maker would run rings around May and her merry band. My experience of the USA people is, without doubt, America first.

    Independence is an imperative.

  141. AlbertaScot says:

    I’m all for getting ahead of the curve here.

    Cut a few mill loose from the budget, pass the necessary bill and let’s have a Boundary Commission.

    Little monuments in the moors, “You Are Entering Scotland” signs, the whole deal.

    We could have even have check-points on the major highways.
    All in the name of “bio-security” inspecting 18-wheeler loads for bad stuff.

    The last thing Scotland needs is an outbreak of zebra mussels or New Zealand mud snails.

    Oh ya, and a big (I mean BIG!!!) Jesus sign of smiling Nic welcoming folks at all the popular crossing points.

    You know, just like a real country does.

  142. Robert Louis says:

    Jack collatin at 247pm.

    I agree with every word. This nonsense from Kenny F today, is DANGEROUS nonsense.

    I also have to say, I really like the phrase about Scotland ‘Too Big, Too Rich, Too Clever’. It nails why England lies day in and day out in order to cling onto Scotland. England NEEDS Scotland, but just will not treat us an equal partner in the bipartite union. They treat Scotland as a possession, and not as an equal partner.

  143. Ken500 says:

    The Tories are not fit to be in charge of Defence. Incompetent warmongering, liars. Most of them should be drink and drug tested.

    Teresa May is a corrupt, culpable liar.

  144. Robert Louis says:

    Velofello at 551pm,

    I agree with most of what you say, but sorry TRUMP is an out and out liar. His press secretary has been found this week lying over and over again – something which the republican party call ‘alternative facts’.

    We need to be careful, we don’t just simply assume that because somebody says something is untrue, that it actually is. That is why the articles on this site are so important, since REV Stu references the points he makes with original sources.

    Trump doesn’t like the NON-FOX news media in the USA, simply because they keep pointing out his falsehoods, misogyny, sexism, homophobia and racism. Just because Trump doesn’t like a news report, doesn’t mean the news report is fake.

    I’d trust CNN before I’d ever trust a word that the lying American moron president says. The BBC on the other hand, are a bunch of Westminster approved and FUNDED propagandist goons.

  145. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links now over on O/T.

  146. Clapper57 says:

    Tories fcuk up in Trident fiasco…..nae answers as per.

    Looks to me as though this would be as good a time as any for another #ChickenCoup

  147. norman allan says:

    It’s just a shame that Major Teresa Kong was not riding the bomb when the Trident missile went all wrong.

  148. Legerwood says:

    heedtracker @ 5.49

    In the interests of accuracy it should be noted that the concessionary travel scheme, otherwise known as the bus pass, was introduced by the Scottish Executive in April 2006.

    The Scottish Government has continued the scheme and extended it to more groups eg injured veterans.

    The SG also tightened up how journeys were recorded and thus the payments to bus companies. The original scheme was a bit lax in this respect.

  149. David Smith says:

    @ JohnJones 11:04.

    Don’t even joke about getting into bed with those scum-sucking evil bastards. I wouldn’t put it past that dirty, Nazi-collaborating pos to have a hand in any attempt to stir up sectarian violence here if he thought he could turn a profit from it.

  150. Bob MACK says:

    O/t ,but good news.

    The Scottish daily papers All down on yearly sales. The Daily Rag down 9.7% to 160,000 per day from last year. They destroy themselves

  151. Liz g says:

    Dasiey Walker @ 1.39
    I never had the impression that it was the large attacks in England that prompted Westminster to seek a peaceful solution to the “trouble’s in N Ireland.

    I had view was it more likely that the “phone call” to get it sorted, most likely came from those who had planned to have a
    “Global Warming on Terror” which required Westminster not to have a domestic issues.
    Otherwise shock and awe would have had to have been applied em ??? unfairly!!!!

  152. Artyhetty says:


    I am sure we saw a checkpoint just outside Stranraer, in the summer. On the way from main road from england. Only saw the checkpoint open once though, it’s obvs only used sometimes, for lorries heading for the ferries. Not a border control as such. I wonder who police’s it.

  153. TheBuchanLoony says:

    What if?…What if the Trident missiles software has been hacked and ALL the missiles are now targetted on Washington! Going to be a pretty nervous sub captain that is going to fire the next one. What if the next hidden bug is in the self destruct instruction software?

  154. Robert Louis @ 5.51 pm
    ‘Too big’ We make up one third of the land mass on this island, with only 5.4 million souls to feed clothe house and heat, while England is marginally smaller with 58 million souls stepping over each other in a huddled mass.
    ‘Too rich’. We are surrounded by bounteous coastal waters, full of fish, oil, gas, and wind/wave power generating electricity for our homes.
    We have a thriving agriculture sector, tourists flocking to our beautiful land, countless first class golf courses, stunning scenery,a thriving Banking and finance sector, a successful food and drinks industry, IT and Off Shore drilling technologies that lead the world, and the potential once the EU is open to us directly to expand and thrive as a fully fledged member nation. Imagine the boost to our nascent economy that investment in infrastructure, re-opening and modernising Scottish ports to transport our goods directly to our European cousins rather than through Tilbury will have
    ‘Too clever’. Four of our Universities are listed in the World’s top 100; Glasgow Edinburgh St Andrew’s and Aberdeen, with Dundee hitting the crossbar.
    Shout it from the rooftops. We’re big, rich, and clever. Too big, too rich, and too clever for England to lose us as a colony is the only argument Project Shit They’re Not Bluffing This Time has left..
    Where would David Cameron and the Chinless Wonders go to kill animals for fun?

  155. Liz g says:

    Meg Merillees @ 2.16 on the previous thread.
    Thank you for your reply.
    Makes a bit more sense to me now. (Don’t think you are Havering at all, I appreciate a proper response..After all this isn’t Twitter)
    I do agree with you that UKIP has been manufactured…Hope I’m around long enough to find out by who and how deep it goes.
    Funny how that from outside England it’s so easy to see something’s not right about the rise of this lot.

  156. Joannie says:

    What a stupid, irresponsible thing for Kenny F to say. Its almost like he’s trying to incite Scottish nationalists to turn violent.

    Of course the real reason why they have a double standard about the Irish and Scottish borders is that they know deep down that Ireland is one country whereas Scotland and England are two separate countries.

  157. ben madigan says:

    @Thepnr who was impressed by President DeValera’s 1945 speech

    Yeah, His speech was quite something.It was made in response to some rather nasty remarks Mr Churchill made about him, Ireland and ireland’s neutrality in Mr C’s Victory speech after WWII . DeValera waited a couple of days and then replied as you heard. Glad you liked it.

    DeValera was/is a somewhat controversial figure in Ireland – people either love(d) or hate(d) him. But no one could doubt his patriotism and desire to do the best he could, as he saw it, for the Irish people. And his true desire for his country to live in peace.

    Hope you also appreciated my attempt to show he was expressing age-old principles of resistance to the same old, same old Westminster rule that applied to Ireland then and now and apply to northern ireland and Scotland today. I hope you have time to listen to the speech and transpose it into today’s issues, as I suggested!

  158. Nana says:


    Pound eyes $1.25 as traders bet British government to lose Brexit case

    Welsh Brexit plan: Wood and Jones demand single market access

  159. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Having met these two young ladies – Sarah on the 17th and 18th September 2016 in the Yes Bar and at Glasgow Green, and Sophie at the Hollyrood rally a month later, I can only say that their action on the 19th September, 2014, should merit one of those awards an independent Scotland will bestow upon those who were inspirational in our struggle for independence.

    And they never even had to use ‘pointed sticks’!

  160. Liz g says:

    RE… Trident
    I don’t think we will get any answers from Westminster any time soon…But… The US has much better freedom of information rules.
    Hopefully that’s how we will find out, wonder if skip NC is still around and could point us in the right direction.
    If the US upgraded their readyness to respond that could be quite an issue??

  161. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    The Independence Medal…

    Sarah and Sophie Johnston
    Stuart Campbell
    Lindsay Jarrett
    Paul Kavanagh
    Ken MacDonald (iScot and Wings badges)
    G.A. Ponsonby
    Prof Robertson
    And I’m sure there’s more…

  162. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Like Chris Law (Spirit of Independence)…

  163. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 23 January, 2017 at 5:49 pm:

    “Free bus passes for the over 60s is one of the scottish government’s flagship policies….but can we afford it?”

    Yes, “we”, can – if, “we”, were in charge of, “us”.

    But as long as “they”, remain in charge of, “us”, then, “we”, will never know if, “we”, can afford anything.

    “We”, must be in charge of how much, “we”, have to spend, and how much, “we”, have coming in to spend on, “us”. before, “we”, can decide even if “we” need to spend more or less on, “us”.

    Because if, “we”, had the power to set, “our”. own pension rates then, “we”, might find out, “we”, don’t need to subsidise our pensioners in the first place as they would have the cash in, “their”, own hands.

    We must control all recourses and all spending before we can claim to be in full charge of us and only us should decide we will do that.

  164. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Check out the other videos in the list on the right at the above link to see the Spirit’s voyage round Scotland in 2014.

  165. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Robert Peffers.

    “WE and US”…

  166. Rock says:

    Unlike any other British colony, Scotland must get independence by completely peaceful means.

    We have waited 300 years and we are ready to wait another 300 years.

  167. Les Wilson says:

    Ref Trident, a US source said “It went wrong!” – Sky News
    So much for May’s everything went well shite.

  168. starlaw says:

    As far as I understand it, the trident missile belongs to the USA. we just get to cart it about. The minute the missile went live the US knew all about it lucky for them the self destruct system worked.

  169. John Young says:

    This is an extremely knowledgeable and revealing article on the background to the latest Trident test fiasco:

  170. robertknight says:

    Q) Why must it be so?

    A) Because We say it must, and We are never wrong!

    The rules of logic as applied by the British Establishment.

    Tw@ts, the lot of ’em!

  171. Rock says:


    “Nicola talking tough.

    “ Sturgeon: MSPs will vote on Brexit no matter what judges rule ”

    I’m wondering if this means the judges have decided Holyrood’s permission is not required, and Nicola already knows this.”

    And what will a vote by MSPs result in?

    UDI or the announcement of a second independence referendum by the “sovereign” Scottish parliament?

    If the twats in the Supreme Court delay Brexit, and blame the Scots for it, it will only be for the benefit of the
    Establishment, not because of Scotland’s pretendy “sovereignty”.

  172. Robert Peffers says:

    @Croompenstein says: 23 January, 2017 at 8:43 pm:

    Bloody hilarious.

    I couldn’t stop laughing at this tweet on that cite you reference, Croompenstein.

    “@latimes yeah cause here we speak English… Merica”

    Thing is that, “English”, is the language of the peoples of England and the English come from a wee group of islands called Britain. This twit on twitter is in the US of America where the native Americans language is NOT that of the people of England.

    I don’t doubt the irony of the tweet whooshes right over the daft tweeter’s wee pointy head.

  173. heedtracker says:

    Heil Trump. The right aren’t a pack gangsters are they.

    Daily Heil’s touched by gracious neo fascism,


    Trump singles out Comey for special praise: The President says FBI director is ‘more famous than me’ at White House event after Clinton email investigation at event ”

    Read more:

  174. Lenny Hartley says:

    Ch4 news said that Trumps people told them that May’s forthcoming visit is to discuss Trade. Don’t think a date has been confirmed but papers talking about Friday , I presume Friday the 3rd Feb.
    Therefore Article 50 will have to be advised to Europe before her meeting with Trump, otherwise she is in breech of the terms of Article 50

  175. Shinty says:

    Briandoonthetoon -nice wee video but sadly over 2 years since indyref and it still can’t reach over 2,500 views?

    I know there’s some great stuff out there but look at the views. Anything pro-indy that I’ve seen has 5 figures max.

  176. Cadogan Enright says:

    The truth is that N Ireland (and Gibraltar) are likely to stay in the single market/customs union as both Ireland (and Spain) must give their assent to any deal with the UK.

    Nicola needs to delay until 2018 until this becomes clear, while remembering that Lichtenstein and the Channel Islands are both in the single market while being attached to Countries that are not.

  177. yesindyref2 says:

    Though there’s some truth in what you say, it is exaggerated, and the comments we see all over the place are probably all made by about 500 of the English and a few Welsh perhaps. People vote but most don’t participate.

    As for Scotland rising up with guns and that, spears and swords, we’re not the Tuatha Dé Dannan, though there’s probably blood going way back. My wife’s Irish by the way.

  178. Brian Powell says:


    If the UK does begin trade negotiations with other countries outside the EU before exiting that could sour relations between those countries and the EU.

  179. Brian Powell says:

    The UK Government doesn’t care so much about the circumstances of the Channel Islands or Lichtenstein, or NI or Gibraltar.

    Effectively it doesn’t need Gibraltar or NI, but it desperately needs Scotland assets of all kinds, and will do whatever to keep them.

  180. heedtracker says:

    Aye. Its an on going issue really. Just wandering around world online news, tory BBC led UK press are all facing west at Trumpland.

    So Brexit UK doesn’t want EU citizens in their all new and exciting global England but they don’t mind Aussies.

  181. Valerie says:

    starlaw 8.44

    You would think this latest Trident farce would prove to people once and for all, that its not our system.

    It may even be the reason the Yanks released the information about self destructing right in the middle of the Commons debate, leaving Fallon with his lying arse oot the windae. The Yanks were obviously claiming they were in charge, and sorted out the fiasco.

    It was something seeing the MPs all looking at their phones, as Fallon was slithering around the dispatch box, in his smug superior way.

    As someone commented, we have to hear it from a foreign gov’t, but still pay through the nose for this stupidity.

  182. Cadogan Enright says:

    whilst searching for latest sales figures for printed media I came across this – which re-enforces the need to archive links to everything except the National , and possibly, the Sunday Herald

  183. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Shinty.

    It’s up to us to share the link. It’s up to the recipients of the link to view the video. To me, it’s so true…

    BYW: on my browser (Firefox) it has “58,981 views”…

    AH! You mean the ‘Spirit of Independence’ video. I’ve watched quite a few of the series (from the list on the right) and still find them inspirational. Even this one has only 2,412 views.

  184. Legerwood says:

    Lenny Hartley says:
    23 January, 2017 at 9:45 pm
    “”Ch4 news said that Trumps people told them that May’s forthcoming visit is to discuss Trade. Don’t think a date has been confirmed but papers talking about Friday , I presume Friday the 3rd Feb.
    Therefore Article 50 will have to be advised to Europe before her meeting with Trump, otherwise she is in breech of the terms of Article 50″”


    It is this Friday that Mrs May is going to Washington.

  185. ronnie anderson says:

    Im so Special.

    Official warning we have opened an investigation. ( whooo Red lettering)

    This is an official warning that we are carrying out an investigation of your address. We have asked you to contact us several times, but you have not responded. There is still no record of a TV Licence at this property.

    The Law

    It is a criminal offence to watch or record live TV programmes on any channel , or to download or watch BBC programmes on iplayer unless you have a TV Licence.

    Blah blah blah Pay up ect ect.

    I will respond to them on the 26th March at the BBC BIAS Protest 14.00 to 16.00in PERSON.



  186. Lenny Hartley says:

    FFS watching program on H2 about the famous Eagle’s 9th Legion and in particular their utter destruction by the Picts. I’ve learned that England was in existence before the Romans invaded and that Scotland was too wee and too poor for the Romans to bother about. That the Indigenous Celtic Tribes were barbarians who were rebels and lived in a place called insurgury as they were insurgents. Really glad to get this history lesson , when we are
    Independent a priority needs to be to get the real history in books, magazines and film.

  187. Jock McDonnell says:

    @Cadogan Enright
    You are correct, NI & Gib will expose more hypocrisy and the FM will wait for that to appear.

    Meanwhile folks, never forget that fear won the day in 2014.
    We need to be countering the weasel words ‘we need more information’, ‘too many unanswered questions’, ‘it’s anti-English’ & the new batch of post brexit lies.
    These are the unionists’ first lines of defence, designed to stop voters even considering voting for Independence.
    It does bother me that there seems to be no counter narrative to the fear at the moment. I hope we don’t let the new lies take root.
    I do believe though that brexit is gonna be bad, seen to be bad & that the FM is recruiting new allies, so we just need to be ready when she calls.

  188. Thepnr says:

    Hahaha ronnie Red you say! I believe you will respond to them in person. Think I’ll join you on 26th March should be a good day out.

  189. Tam Jardine says:

    John Young 8.52pm

    Thanks for the link to the piece on the Tarff Advertiser blog on Trident. Well worth a read.

  190. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Thepnr Twa extra pies on order lol , we’re asking for a meeting with Donalda on the day & inviting her to speak to the protesters .

    Hopefully next BBC protest nearer to you in Dundee.

  191. heedtracker says:

    Lenny Hartley, its an incredible 400+ year war with the Roman Empire what created the whole of Scotland today.

    BBC’s got a Roman Scots thing,

    “The ultimate legacy of the Ninth was the creation of a permanent border, forever dividing Britain. The origins of what were to become the independent kingdoms of England and Scotland may be traced to the loss of this unluckiest of Roman legions.”

    That’s how a very modern Englishman would end his BBC stuff. If youre from Aberdeen youre accustomed to the same voices telling you how the Picts were defeated at Mons Grampius and that was the end of it. But there is almost no non Roman military archeology in Scotland anywhere, no towns, roads, an odd villa maybe. So they came to Scotland, won their war and then went home again, behind their wall, for the first time ever in Roman Imperial history.

  192. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Anyone heard of the Radical War? No? Me neither. Not until last night when I was following a twitter thread from Michael Gray

    which listed a series of events detailing Scottish resistance to Westminster rule. What struck me with the above was that a) I’d never heard of it and b)the justice that was meted out

    “James Wilson of Strathaven was singled out as a leader of the march there, and at Glasgow was executed by hanging, then decapitated. Of those seized by the British Army at Bonnymuir, John Baird and Andrew Hardie were similarly executed at Stirling after making short defiant speeches.”

    This wasn’t that far back. It was 1820.

  193. Lenny Hartley says:

    Heed tracker yeah I spent 30 years in Aberdeen and well aware of the non existent battle of
    Mons Grapus , amazing that 30,000 Caledonians died and not a single bone or sword has been found. Good speech by Calgacus through didnt some Brit use the quote “created a desert and called it Peace” in references to Isis recently.
    Alan Macintosh suggest you get a copy of the Scottish Insurrection of 1820 by Peter Berresford Ellis and Seumas Mac A’ Ghobhainn

  194. Fred says:

    @ Alan, our very own Winger, Donald Anderson is aa leading light in the 1820 Society, the membership is getting auld & young blood urgently needed, duties not onerous!

  195. shug says:

    Call Kaye today

    Scottish government bus pass scheme bad – we can’t afford it
    No mention of the scheme in England being unaffordable

    I nice wee list of programmes this week will be required to watch the extent of their balanced reporting

    Dear Donalda and Kaye we are hearing but not listening and we are watching

  196. Meg merrilees says:

    Robert louis @5.47 pm

    One thing I’ve learned in the last year through discussing Trident on this site is that it is not an independent deterrent.
    The Americans know AT ALL TIMES, where our subs are and therefore, where the warheads are. This is their system and we agree to operate it.

    They produce the missiles and warheads and we carry them on the understanding that even if our PM issued an order to ‘fire’, that will not happen unless the Americans approve it.
    My understanding is that at all times, they have control over these weapons and can intercept and if necessary destroy them using an anti-missile system fitted to all their warships and computer technology.

    We are really their puppets now and I, for one, don’t like the change of puppet-master.

  197. Fred says:

    Anent Roman in the Gloamin, an excellent book covering the subject is “The Scots, A Genetic Journey!” by Alistair Moffat & James F Wilson. The Picts are still very much with us, you’ll see them every day or mebbes just look in the mirror. Rome apparently contributed little to the Scottish gene pool & the Meatae who gave the Romans so much hassle & Dumyat is named for, are still where they were when it was the wild frontier. Fascinating stuff.

  198. heedtracker says:

    Lenny Hartley

    Its is a curious er, phenomena of UK unionism, that a highly dubious archeology free Roman defeat of the Picts, at possibly Bennachie, is used today to brow beat the locals, 2000 years later, or so.

    If you know that whole Bennachie area, it’s a beautiful part of Scotland with rich fertile farmland. The idea that the might of Roman Empire defeated the Picts, then left this land completely untouched, is bonkers, very British bonkers.

    Rome was clearly defeated and chased out of a rich, fertile and populous Scotland by extremely well equipped and trained warrior clans, every where they tried too. And the Picts were nothing like that Holyrood presentation of filthy hairy dudes in furs. Its all very mad.

    That map in wiki of those disastrous Roman invasions is interesting though, as it shows how the Romans were essentially following the great bronze and iron age roads that looped around and into Highlands up to Inverness.

    They left behind huge forts and marching camps along these ancient roads and they’re really worth seeing today as they’re placed in some spectacular locations. They’re not being looked after either. Wonder why?

    The history of country is all around us today, largely ignored and derided but after independence, I want national historian of Scotland job:D

  199. Jock McDonnell says:

    @Alan Mackintosh

    You remind me that sometimes those of us who have campaigned for decades forget that there are newer generations who don’t know how we got to where we are now.
    It’s important to recall the past, to remember the mediocre representatives we had, the managed decline of the post war years & of course the brutality of more distant times.
    For our youth particularly, now is the current baseline, they don’t recall the battles to get this far. They should not take it for granted.

    In 1990 say, when Salmond became SNP convenor, if you’d asked me, I’d have said that by 2020 we’d be long independent, such was the heat of the constitutional debate. Just goes to show how hard it is to win, how determined, powerful & crafty our opponents are.

    We have unbelievably been handed another chance with brexit though, so soon after 2014. It can be this generations’ poll-tax campaign, it has the potential to be even more calamitous for the Tories.
    We have never been closer to what is this nation’s birthright but it will never be given, it needs to be taken.

  200. The most authoritative book on the 1820 rising is “The Scottish Insurrection of 1820″ by Peter Berresford Ellis and Seumas Mac a Ghobhainn. There were risings across central Scotland, very often sadly at the instigation of government spies (a lesson we must never ignore), and apart from the executions of Baird, Hardie and Wilson there was chaos at Greenock where the population attacked the hussars and the jail in which a large number of revolutionaries were to be housed prior to deportation to Australia and released lots of them.

    The weaver James”Purlie” Wilson was kirk elder and got the middle name because of his use of a device which turned the heel in hosiery (the purl). He was executed and beheaded in front of 20,000 angry Glaswegians who threatened to riot . His last words to the executioner were “Hiv ye iver seen sic a crowd, Tammas.” Baird and Hardie were beheaded at Stirling in the last beheadings in Britain.

    Until the turn of the 20th century these three men were Scottish heroes. When the home rule movement in Scotland started to gain momentum with the birth of the Scottish Labour Party (yes,really) and particularly when the Irish got uppity they were removed from our history lessons in our schools and from public account and by 1920 nobody in Scotland had heard of them.
    James Halliday has also written a book on the 1820 Rising or the Radical War as it is usually described.

  201. yesindyref2 says:

    @Meg merrilees
    Sorry, that’s completely wrong.

    The Americans make the missiles, but the warheads are made at Aldermaston. Once a missile is fired it reaches supersonic speed in a minute or so: “When the third-stage motor fires, within two minutes of launch, the missile is traveling faster than 20,000 ft/s (6,000 m/s), or 13,600 mph (21,600 km/h).

    So no, the Americans can’t intercept the missile, unless they’re sitting within a few miles of the launch site, and even then it’s problematic.

    The Americans do not have operational control the Royal Navy does, and if the PM orders the missiles to be fired, they get fired.

    And one last myth, the RN Vanguard class do not use launch codes for the missiles, they use old-fashioned keys, two of.

    Operationally the UK deterrent is independent. Maintenance wise it isn’t, as the missiles are serviced in the US.

  202. yesindyref2 says:

    What happens by the way when a Trident D5 is launched is that the sub comes up to 60 feet and the outer doors are opened. They can’t be opened lower as they’re a structural part of the hull. The missile is then ejected using compressed air.

    When it breaches the surface the first stage motor fires and it’s up up and away. My guess is that the motor on this launch either fired too late, and the missile had started to topple before the motor fired, hence going off in the wrong direction. You read it here first.

  203. Ghillie says:

    X_Sticks 10.28 am

    I think you hit the nail on the head, Scotland has been Westminster’s cash cow and they are not going to let go that easily.

    But as others have said, we are gaining ground our way. Not their way.

    Is KF in danger of becoming an agent provocateur? Twit.

  204. Lenny Hartley says:

    Heedtracker, yup been up Bennachie many a time, went on quite a few tours with guides from Aberdeen University of the archaeological sites in Aberdeenshire which as you know are numerous . most of my mates up that way were from Huntly or Keith so spent a bit of time in the hinterlands 🙂

    I will propose you as heidbummer o the history.

  205. Bob MACK says:


    Partly right. However the missiles themselves though having a warhead which is serviced at Aldermaston, has previously planned guidance systems fitted at the missile pool on Georgia USA.

    In other words, America programmes the targets into the missile guidance even though it is a UK serviced warhead.

  206. Artyhetty says:


    Just looked that up. Had heard of this before, but to read into it further, well, the english for sure did stamp very heavily on the Scottish people didn’t they. Via the media, and with their rule over Scotland, they still do.

    Hope this link works, I think it’s ok to share.…………..__o_t__t_497.html

  207. yesindyref2 says:

    Ah well, could be wrong about the problem. From elsewhere: “The US official was reported to have said the altered trajectory was part of an automatic self-destruct sequence triggered when missile electronics detect an anomaly.

    @Bob MACK
    Don’t think that’s right Bob. In peacetime at times of low tension, NO targets are programmed into the Trident missiles, and it would take time to actually program them in. That was on the RN website a year or two ago before it disappeared in a puff of rocket exhaust. It’s the RN targets the missiles, though politically the UK would consult with the US before firing. Once fired they’re on inertial guidance, though updates can be got via satellite if available. That just affects the precision of flight and separation of the multiple warheads.

    It perhaps depends on who we believe, though if I wasn’t off to my bed (tiring day and want to be up for UKSC), I could do the logical process of “proving” independence. Basically the UK has warheads and has done for decades, and could just drop them from a plane, and secondly the UK was developing its own three stager but had problems and cost overruns. People will remember Blue Streak which was very successful, but a problem with a multi-stager is separation and sequencing. I think that’s what killed off the UK’s program – space program as well.

  208. yesindyref2 says:

    @Bob MACK
    Oh, and it’s not just serviced at Aldermaston, they were BUILT there in the first place (or Burghfield I forget which).

  209. Artyhetty says:


    You know we could be forgiven for wondering who exactly has control over trident missiles. It seems to be being controlled and operated by anyone and everyone on either side of the Atlantic.

    Most of all, the criminals that have agreed to extend, at unbelievable cost to the public purse, this utter abombination should be locked up in a very dark, cold, damp, rat infested dungeon and the key thrown into the deepest part of the Atlantic.

  210. Meg merrilees says:

    Yesindyref2 @11.55

    I defer.

    However, I looked back at a post I made on July 18th 2016 @12.52 am “The Labour case for Trident” thread.

    This was related to a BBC Radio 4 interview with a Dr. Dan Plesh of London University, following the Trident replacement vote in July.

    He stated that Trident is not an independent deterrent.
    Using their Waterspace system, the US knows where our subs are at all times and can destroy Trident missiles with their extremely powerful Aegis anti-ballistsic missile system which is fitted on 30 of their warships in the Atlantic. They own Aldermaston and provide us with explosive material for nuclear warheads.

    He went on to say that –

    No British PM could be confident, even at very short notice, of firing trident without America preventing it either through cyber attack, physical interruption of communications, hunting down our subs as they know pretty much where they are or by firing Aegis missiles at them.
    It’s not so much a question of whether a British PM could order it to be fired more a case of whether America would stop it!

    I heard it on the BBC so it can’t be a lie, can it?

    Given the recent change of regime in America I’d certainly rather believe your version.

  211. Thepnr says:

    Why would a warhead need servicing? A change of oil or something. Mibbee you just give it a polish, sign a piece of paper then it’s proven to have been serviced.

    Ridiculous, they have no moving parts, nothing that deteriorates with age. Might as well worship them as service them. It will make no difference.

  212. Thepnr says:

    Would anyone service a bullet or a grenade? A mortar or an artillery shell? Doubt it so why would a nuclear warhead need “servicing”?

    Jist asking like.

  213. yesindyref2 says:

    @Meg Merrilees
    From SOAS: “Dr Plesch read history at Nottingham and obtained professional qualifications in social work and public administration from Bristol in 1979 and 1980, he then worked for non-governmental organisations focused on the abolition of nuclear weapons

    I think that says it all …

    … well, Aegis is good, but needs I think 2 or 3 warships, and in fairly close proximity to the firing. There was an Aegis test in a Joint Warrior, last year around this time I think. (year before)

    Problem is to intercept a ballistic at full speed needs a hypersonic mutli-stage missile interceptor, and though Russia and China apparently have one, the US gave up some years ago because of cost. I think they’re working on it again now.

    At a rough guess it would be the twin detonators (that’s from memory).

    Ah well, night all!

  214. Chick McGregor says:

    Regarding 1820 here is a short one page account of the extraordinary courage shown by the citizens of Greenock in the immediate aftermath.

  215. Conan the Librarian says:

    AK 45? Perhaps dear Kenny is worried about his job prospects…

  216. Ghillie says:

    Jack Colitain 12.24pm

    Scotland: Big, Rich and Clever!

    Cactus is going to love you for that = )

    May I add, So Beautiful and So Kind too = )

  217. Ghillie says:

    Sorry, Jack Collatin 🙂

  218. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, woke up. It could be there’s something altogether nastier at the root of Farquharson’s tweet about AK45s.

  219. Cactus says:

    Yer right there Jack & Ghillie.

    Scotland.. SO Big, Rich, Clever, Beautiful and Kind.

    Tis a fact.

  220. Liz g says:

    Yesindyref2 @ 4.51
    Ha…But does it have anything to say about Eaton Rifles?

  221. Macart says:

    @Yesindyref2 4.51

    In either reference dads, his cretinous tweet and premise says a lot more about him.

    At a time when true statesmen, calm and measured discussion, understanding, patience and leadership is required of the political class and the media. SOME boneheads are out there attempting to create news by fomenting hatred and fear for their own ends.

    Right now, there are far too many of the latter and not enough of the former out there.

  222. thms says:


    Carol Kirkwood, managed to get through a lengthy ‘UK’ weather forecast for the next few days, just a few minutes ago, without once mentioning Scotland or a Scottish place name..

  223. Bob MACK says:

    @The pnr,

    The missile head has a few parts that can deteriorate or require checking such as the firing mechanism ,the neutron generator ,and a gas reservoir which are all contained in the warhead itself.

    The guidance system is from Draper in the US and receives it’s flight path via American satellite and EPGS systems. It is a hit and miss affair without these systems.

    In effect therefore the UK cannot directly target anywhere without America,

    Suppose it is a former of control .

  224. Ken500 says:

    NI Unionists MP’s (11) vote with the Tories in Westminster.They contribute to the Tories having an overall (illegal) majority in Westminster. They are responsible for helping pass Tory legislation in Westminster. The austerity programmes, illegal war etc. Sinn Fein MP’s (8) do not attend Westminster. (For obvious reasons) but get £Millions in expenses allocation etc. They would (likely) vote against the Tory policies at Westminster. Neutralising the NI Unionists support for the Tories.

    NI get an above (average) settlement for Westminster. £Billions. (50% more than they raise) – Norwegian levels. NI Unionist MP!s are voting for austerity/illegal wars for others but having their budget protected and remain above and much higher than the norm allocation. They get £Billion more (pro rata) than Scotland and Wales, Wales get the lowest (pro rata) allocation. £1Billion? under. It is an unfair, discriminatory situation,

    NI is a Law unto itself but screws opposition to the Tories at Westminster. The NI Unionist MP’s Tory support at Westminster has allowed the Tories to destroy the world economy. Unrepresentative, undemocratic, fraudulent Westminster Gov. The Tories also have committed electoral fraud at Westminster in 31 Constituencies. So has UKIP.

    The Trudent nuclear warheads are stored in the US (Florida) The Trident subrrmarines go to the US and pick up their (allocated) share from the stockpile in the store – randomly. The RN just pick up their issued allocation randomly from the stockpile. E.g. D23, A19 or whatever code their is for them. The US President also has the code before they can be fired. Westminster is paying for a Defence system that can’t be used unless the US President gives the code for authority.

    The defects in the system mean a US President would be giving permission for a nuclear strike to happen randomly even on US territory. Friendly fire. To kill millions of people and destroy the world. With them illegally based 30 miles from Scotland’s largest cities. They do not base them need smog bound London S/E but do all the (more expensive) maintained even at Devonport. (unemployment 3%).

    It is not an independent Defence system. It can only be used with the authority of the Us President. The UK us paying £Billions for a Defence system primary the intention is to protect the US but leave the UK in a more dangerous Defence situation lacking conventional forces. While starving, killing and maiming innocent people at home and aboard illegally. Causing the worst migration crisis in Europe since the 11WW. Brexit leaving the EU membership. EU membership which keeps shared Defence costs down and gives much greater, cheaper protection for the UK/NI.

  225. bjsalba says:

    @Robert Louis at 6:05

    Who owns Fox News?

  226. Nana says:

    Bill to trigger Article 50 ‘revealed by the end of the week’

  227. John Dickson says:

    Its an AK47 Kenny F, from about the 1970s of the last century the ANC in South Africa had a shitload of them courtesy of Westminster and the World Council of Churches. They still have plenty stashed and every now and again dig them up and blame the Inkatha Freedom Party of Dr Mangosuthu Buthelezi

  228. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT but Mr Trump has stopped the TTP trade deal.

    Are we happy about that?

  229. Ken500 says:

    Typos – i.e. small screen.

    Northern Ireland Unionist MP (Tory support) screw over Scotland and the rest of the UK big time. While they do what they like. Above the Law and regulation. (Mundells – vote again the major NI public opinion and express wishes). Will the NI Unionist MP’s vote for Brexit? Even though NI voted to Remain in Europe. Will NI Assembly fail and fall and overall Westminster rule enforce Brexit against the majority voters wishes in NI. How will the Brexit vote influence the voters in the coming NI elections. (Pop 2million).

  230. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    Wake up call-liberal-brexiters

    “the NHS, as the largest buyer of pharmaceuticals in Europe, essentially sets the prices for many other EU markets, and is thus resented by the US pharmaceutical industry, which sees these prices as unfairly low. The US would also put the UK under fierce pressure to fully open up its agricultural markets to US food exports.”

    The more I hear about a trade deal with the US, the less I like the sound of it!

  231. galamcennalath says:

    The ‘new’ phenomenon of fake news can’t get a foothold in the UK because the existing newspapers already have a monopoly on fake news!

    Who would have ever guessed, eh?!

    Fake news sites have struggled to take hold in the UK political sphere, seemingly because traditional British news outlets are already incredibly adept at filling the market with highly partisan news stories which stretch the truth to its limits.

  232. Liz g says:

    Dorothy Devine @ 8.05
    Trump is only, as far as I can tell destroying anything that could possibly have Obama’s name on it.
    His version of SNP bad.

    TTIP is as far as I know the only “Deal” in any shape to be signed off on quickly.
    So no I am not happy he has allegedly killed it off manily because I think he will just re-name it and that’s what will be the all new shiny trade deal with the US that Westminster will sign.
    Hopefully we will be gone before that happens!!!
    But still it’s the actual English people who will finish up with no health care,not the Politicians who actually signed the dam thing.
    And we will probably also indirectly lining the pockets of the private health care firm’s, because of shared services that are Island wide.

  233. Nana says:

    Fintan O’Toole: Brexit resurrects the English cult of heroic failure

    Brexit talks continue in Jersey and Guernsey

  234. Ken500 says:

    Murdoch owns Fox News (outright) Murdoch had to become an American citizen (pay taxes on Corp?). In 1998? To aquire his US business interest (300 million market pop). Google or whatever it. Only American citizens -(taxpayers?) can own businesses in the US. Murdoch should have been put in jail for bribing public officials. Under US Business Law it is a crime to bride public official anywhere in the world. US etc multinationals illegally tax evade and do not pay taxes in the US or the rest of the world. Murdoch tried to get into China (1Billion+ pop) but was rejected. Prevented from getting a licence to trade, Married the Wong woman. Chinese citizen? To try and get influence and licence to trade? A business, personal partnership relationship. To try and expand the Company.

    Many countries only licence resident citizens or subsidaries to trade or engage in business, You have to be a UK Citizen to trade (buy UK share on the London Stock exchange. Or part of a British based consortium. (Shares holdings) portfolio of foreign shares. To keep share dealing control laws in the country of origin. Eurozone could be different. Share trading permission could (lax) cover the whole Eurozone members.

    Scotland had it’s own independent Stock dealing companies until the 90’s, when it was taken over. An affiliation. Stanley ? based in Glasgow. People can still trade stocks and shares in Scotland. Allied ? based in Edinburgh. Small share holding can be advantageous for the perks – discounts and vouchers open to all. Shares used to be traded through the banks but that has stopped. Edinburgh still has massive financial dealing institutions. Aberdeen Asset Management is the biggest fund mangement company in Europe was based in Aberdeen but expanded. A great list. Respected worldwide. Baillie Gifford etc. Finance is one thing Scotland has always done worldwide. Brings in £Billions to Scotland. They will not appreciate or support being taken out of the EU, it will cut off business and opportunities. Cost jobs.

    TTP cancellation will mean the US and the EU (members) will not trade equally. The US is protectionist (trade) has tariffs/charge for imported goods already. The EU will retaliated and put surcharges and tariffs on US goods. They will not be able to trade freely. It affects world trade. The EU is stopping US multinationals tax evading in the EU. Or they will not have a license to trade in the EU. A 500 million (pop) market. It’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Trade wars and lack of legitimate completion to keep consumer prices down. India and China etc do it as well. Put up trade barriers and overall make costs higher for consumers worldwide. Lack of free trade prevents the best deal,and lower prices – worldwide. This does not affect legitimate Gov policies to encourage investment and manufacture in their own countries. A separate issue.

    Or in many cases legitimate tax being paid by companies, from elsewhere, whose goods are traded. The tax Laws are not enforced because of trade barriers and lack of will or ability by other Govs to enforce it.

    That is one of the main benefits of the EU. Part of a larger, nearest market, and protection from (US) multinational corp tax evasion. A relatively, small price (contribution) to be paid. The Tories (Westminster) are ruining the world economy, causing poverty and hardship all over the world. Wasting £Trns which could be better spent,

    The US Gov puts funds into research and development. (Silicon Valley, drug development etc). They develop products/innovation. They gain a patent/copyright. Issued and protected by the US Gov. This creates an monopoly for the US (development) firm. They can then charge what they like. No market forces completion to keep consumer costs down. They trade all,over the world and illegally pay no taxes. In the US or in the rest of the world where the goods are traded. This increases their power, monopoly and wealth and unfairly discriminates against competitive companies based elsewhere.

    Trump’s policies will affect the US export market (for goods) as well affecting the import market. Trump is only looking at one side if the equation, as he will realise. Or not.

  235. shug says:

    Call Kaye today

    Scottish government bus pass scheme bad – we can’t afford it
    No mention of the scheme in England being unaffordable

    Scotland is too fat, the Scottish Government is missing its targets
    SG needs to put money into health stuff

    Dear Donalda and Kaye we are hearing but not listening and we are watching

  236. Ken500 says:

    Trump will eat Westminster for breakfast and spit it out. One of the disadvantages of Brexit. Westminster Unionists holding on for concessions. Not blooming likely. Trump does not suffer fools gladly. The Tories are a bunch of total fools. As May, Johnston, Give and Farague will soon find out. So much for the ‘special relationship’. An Independent Scotland could rate concessions. Over a game of Golf. The majority locals already get them. Bring funds into the economy,

    So far Scotland £100Millions++ Trump 0.

    Trump interests a hostage to Scottish planning permission, He will have to tread lightly. Or be told to get lost and ‘bee off’. Losing £Millions++ A hostage to fortune. Not a good deal.

  237. Luigi says:

    Lenny Hartley says:

    23 January, 2017 at 11:23 pm

    Heed tracker yeah I spent 30 years in Aberdeen and well aware of the non existent battle of
    Mons Grapus , amazing that 30,000 Caledonians died and not a single bone or sword has been found.

    Aye. The Romans were very good at propaganda as well.
    It’s the imperial way. History ain’t always written by the winners. Even in ancient times, sometimes it was written by those who controlled the media (or their version of it). 🙂

  238. Robert Peffers says:

    @Thepnr says: 24 January, 2017 at 12:48 am:

    ” … they have no moving parts, nothing that deteriorates with age. Might as well worship them as service them. It will make no difference.”

    The fact that they are nuclear means that they do deteriorate with age. Radioactivity is just a nuclide in a state of deterioration and they all have quoted half lives. Many very long though.

    Not only that but to trigger the actual nuclear blast the core has to be subjected to a very precise explosion with conventional explosives and they deteriorate with age too.

  239. Meg merrilees says:


  240. Macart says:

    Poop hits fan.

    Justices rule 8-3 in favour of Ms Miller’s case. Parly has to ratify. 🙄

  241. Robert Peffers says:

    @Thepnr says: 24 January, 2017 at 12:52 am:

    Would anyone service a bullet or a grenade? A mortar or an artillery shell? Doubt it so why would a nuclear warhead need “servicing”?
    Jist asking like.

    They are all subject to a use by date and do indeed become unstable with age. They are taken out of Service after a certain time.

    However, here’s a more relevant point. The UK deterrents are computer controlled and the Microsoft operating system in use is XP and XP machines are decidedly deficient today.

  242. Ken500 says:

    Illegal war and Obamacare destroyed Obamacare – the Democrats, The equivalent of, or similar to the Poll tax. Comparable. Put the burden on the poorer. Destroyed his own Party support, like the Tories in Scotland. He would not listen. Put the burden on the poorer. $5,000 a year each with little concession. An enormous burden on average households. Going up average 20% a year. It makes people ill.

    Illegal invasion making people ill and unhappy. Totally against majority of the US citizens wishes. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. Broken promises and elite out of touch conceit, for the majority of the struggling public. Extremely unpopular decisions. Economy stagnation for over 10 years. Same as the UK. US/UK illegal wars , banking fraud, tax evasion destroying the world economy.

  243. One_Scot says:

    It is now legally official that Scotland is not a country, but merely a region of England.

  244. Sinky says:

    Good article by Iain Macwhirter in to-day’s Herald.

    Not too bad by Gordon Wilson on same issue.


    But do not need to consult with devolved institutions.

    Time for full self rule and not remain a mere region anymore

  245. Macart says:

    Sewell convention trashed. Devolved parliaments have no say.

    Equal partnership in UK now utterly worthless. Who knew?

  246. manandboy says:

    May must go to Westminster but does not need to consult with Holyrood. Supreme Court judgement.

  247. One_Scot says:

    Scotland is now merely a shadow of its former self. We may get one more chance to save our ‘country’, let’s make sure we do not waste it.

  248. Ken500 says:

    Roman times very small comparable (pop) nos. Thousands – Do not leave so much trace. Lines over extended. European migration. Different economy, geographical climate. The equation. Growing grapes in the borders. Good and silver production. Romans interacting with the locals. Slavery. Where does it end? 5 years? to be free.

  249. Nana says:

    What a bloody farce. How much longer do we put up with this? Getting more depressed by the day.

  250. schrodingers cat says:

    scots no longer soveriegn, the supreme court is

  251. Ken500 says:

    The Supreme Court has not upheld the Act of Union for Scotland to be treated equally forever. This decision supports IndyRef 2 because under Scottish Law Sovereignty rest with the people. Scotland was guaranteed its own Legal system for ever under the terms of the Act of Union. The Supreme Court has broken the terms of the Act of Union. EU justice courts has to be the next step. The Supreme Court has broken people in Scotland’s human rights to be treated equally. English Law and Scottish Law has always been separate. Scotland has to have another IndyRef.

  252. galamcennalath says:

    Anyone got a link to the full judgement. Link on Supreme Court site isn’t working!

  253. Macart says:

    So, Scots have just been told they are democratically helpless in the face of the majority vote of their larger neighbours. That your vote essentially means absolutely NOTHING. Its as worthless as a tory promise.

    So are we all clear on what a democratic deficit is yet? Sit down, shut up and do what you are told.

    Equal partnership. Precious union. Respect agenda.

    Dae as yer telt.

  254. Robert Kerr says:

    Come on folks. Back to basics. I posted this years ago.


    The Indiref2 must address the question “Is Scotland a Nation or a region?”

    or better still. “Is the Kingdom of Scotland an equal to the Kingdom of England as per the Treaty?”

    Everything else is secondary.

  255. clan rossy says:

    i for one will never be
    subservient , colonised , or regionalised
    by any uk or english goverment .

    we are nothing but shit on there shoes
    its now time for scotland as a nation
    to stand up and be counted .

    its now time for our scottish govt
    to act either democratically through a vote
    or go the u.d.i. route either way i dont care

    i just want out asap and by any means
    possible .

  256. Jamur says:

    Shut up and do as your told you jocko’s.

    Its enough to make you greet/depressed beyond tablets.

    Bring on indyref 2.
    Our only hope.

    How dare the supreme court…..

  257. Robert Peffers says:

    Liz g says:
    24 January, 2017 at 5:51 am
    Yesindyref2 @ 4.51
    Ha…But does it have anything to say about Eaton Rifles?

    Just for clarity that is. “The Eton Rifles”


    A quite perceptive reference, Liz g

  258. gus1940 says:

    Re Trident Failure.

    With one bound Teresa is free.

    It’s taken them a couple of days to come up with the Alternative Fact that Obama wanted it hushed up but I don’t think that we are fooled in the slightest.

  259. Breeks says:

    Now it gets interesting.

    Remember a while back, I drew an analogy where Scotland’s popular sovereignty was a “red” sovereignty, and England’s was a white sovereignty? And went further to question whether Holyrood thus had a mixed, pink sovereignty, or whether the incompatibility of the two sovereignties meant you could not have pink, but either red or white?

    Since Scottish Sovereignty, nor its elected representatives, cannot properly submit to a superior sovereignty, I suggested that Holyrood, in accepting it is inferior to Westminster Parliament CANNOT enact Scottish Sovereignty. Holyrood is a legislature set up by Westminster, empowered by matters devolved from Westminster, and draws no other sovereignty except white sovereignty set down upon it from Westminster.

    Yes, we the sovereign people of Scotland elect the members to attend; thus we give them our democratic authority, but that is not empowering them with Sovereign authority. We cannot delegate spokespersons to submit Scottish Sovereignty to the subjugation of a superior. Holyrood is not OUR parliament. It is a blind alley / cul de sac. We are confusing democratic authority with sovereign authority.

    I know it’s a popular moment many remember fondly, but when Winnie Ewing recalled the Scottish Parliament to sit for the first time in 300 years, I have held on to the quiet belief that no such thing occurred. The Scottish Parliament of 1707 was a sovereign Scottish parliament, with fully red sovereignty, up until, but not beyond the point such sovereign power was suspended. The Scottish Parliament of 1999 was never the same sovereign Scottish parliament. It was a product of Westminster, an instrument of Westminster, and it’s sovereignty was all white.

    I remember being angry when people started to call our devolved legislature a parliament, rather than an assembly. Angry? Why? Because the definition of a Parliament is your sovereign seat of government, and our assembly was not sovereign.

    Our sovereignty, our Scottish sovereignty is 100% resident in Scotland. Westminster cannot administer Scottish sovereignty, and Scottish sovereignty cannot be “filtered” through the UK parliament, accept its inferiority and subject status beneath the Queen and God, and then exit the other side still to be recognised as Scotland’s sovereignty.

    There is no place for anyone to come between Scotland’s sovereignty and Scotland’s people. That interaction does not require any interaction with Westminster, in fact it excludes it. Until we recognise the power we have, and understand that power, then this charade of democratic process is going to play like a broken record.

    We cannot change our sovereignty by any vote. It is a legal precedent, the definition which made Scotland a country which was recognised as a legitimate country by Gods man on Earth, the Pope, and no legislation or edict ever since has proven itself superior to Scotland’s inalienable sovereignty.

    Scotland could not lose its sovereignty through our King being deposed by a stronger King; the default process in the 12th, 13th, and 14th centuries when modern countries were being created. The conquest by force might happen, our King be killed by a stronger King, the subjugation of the people might happen, but what made Scotland different was that the sovereignty of the people could not be removed from the people and wielded by that new King. A monarch might be King or Queen of Scotland, but never the sovereign ruler. That made Scotland’s constitution unique in all Christendom, and it was recognised as inalienable by all Christendom, including the English Edward 1 and 2nd who sought to confound the legal precedent by force of arms, but were themselves confounded by it for centuries to come. It was thing done which could not be undone… ever.

    Westminster has no authority to wield our Scottish sovereignty. It is mythical and untrue to believe otherwise. Our sovereignty cannot be removed from us. These are not articles of democratic principle, they are older fundamental truths. These articles have their parallels in fiction, like Aslan’s deeper knowledge of the older magic which he used to confound the Ice queen in Narnia in the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Sovereignty trumps democracy, and democracy cannot do a thing to change it.

    We do not require to emancipate our sovereignty from Westminster. It isn’t there to begin with. We need only question and reject the false premise of Westminster’s authority over us, and throw off 300 years of OUR misguided acquiescence to a foreign government without the power to govern.

    Once you see and understand this, you cannot see anything else.

    A referendum, Indyref2, will not avail us, anymore than you can change science by referendum, or maths by public opinion. Our sovereignty exists. All it lacks is recognition.

  260. Robert Peffers says:

    Now the real game begins.

    They do not say it outright but, as expected, a Supreme Court instigated by the only de facto parliament of the country of England that exists has ruled the Treaty of Union, which was the agreement of the two kingdom to unite, no longer applies.

    They do so only under English law but, to date, under the Treaty of Union, English Law only applies to the Kingdom of England.

    A Westminster Parliament, that is the only actual parliament of the country of England, that split up the union of the two kingdoms as if it were a union of countries with England devolving England’s sovereign powers to the other countries has ruled, by the court they instigated, as being sovereign over the Kingdom of Scotland.

    Now remember this – Under Scottish law the monarch is legally the defender of the sovereignty of the people of Scotland and English Law is the Sovereign Monarch of the Kingdom of England.

    It is now Her Majesty’s express duty, under Scots law, to defend the people of Scotland’s sovereignty or, under Scottish law, to be replaced as the monarch of Scotland.

    Over to You – Elizabeth Queen of Scots and Queen of England.

    This English Parliament’s instigated court decision tells us that the legal system of Scotland is now redundant in the eyes of the Supreme Court of the country of England.

    In effect both Westminster and their Supreme Court have illegally assumed powers they were never legally given by the Treaty of Union that created the United Kingdom.

    Now we are all assumed, by English law, as subject to the law of England. We Scots have had no legal say in the matter.

    We are now instantly, according to Westminster, all under English law and have not been consulted about it, and we will never be consulted about it by Westminster.

    Seems our First Minister has pre-empted the English ruling by vowing to give us a say in the matter, whether Westminster likes it or not – now we will see who is true to Scotland and who is true to Westminster.

    This is the end play and can only have two outcomes.

    Scottish Independence or subjugation to a Westminster Parliament of England that by their use of English Votes for English Laws has made all of the United Kingdom part of the country of England.

    Now if you cannot see that under this ruling the Supreme Court has decided that the TREATY OF UNION no longer applies. That means either the Kingdom of Scotland is already independent under the laws of Scotland or we are now legally under English Law under the laws of England.

    Then you are rather slow on the uptake or already mentally committed to being English and ready to become a subject of England.

    As the people of Scotland are legally sovereign then it is our choice if we submit to English rule – or not.

    Quite frankly I, personally, will die defending Scotland first.

  261. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Jamur @ 10:06:

    Its enough to make you greet/depressed beyond tablets.

    Au contraire, this is welcome news, because it highlights as starkly as possible that Scotland has no say, is a mere colony, and despite all that has been achieved by devolution, its people are still cheated by a complete democratic deficit.

    Devolution was supposed to be an evolving process, but it has now reached a complete dead end. The current Holyrood is a sham. Time for it to become truly sovereign.

    It’s a hard row to hoe nana, but be of good cheer. This is a step forward, and the necessary democratic showdown is coming. And coming soon.

  262. Thepnr says:

    @Robert Peffers

    “The fact that they are nuclear means that they do deteriorate with age. Radioactivity is just a nuclide in a state of deterioration and they all have quoted half lives. Many very long though.

    Not only that but to trigger the actual nuclear blast the core has to be subjected to a very precise explosion with conventional explosives and they deteriorate with age too.”

    Thank you Robert for that explanation as to why you would service nuclear weapons. I guess I’m owe an apology to yesindyref2, if we all thought the same and posted the same then that wouldn’t be much fun would it.

    Happy to be educated when clearly wrong. Long may it continue 🙂

  263. Robert Peffers says:

    @Ken500 says: 24 January, 2017 at 9:55 am:

    “The Supreme Court has not upheld the Act of Union for Scotland to be treated equally forever. This decision supports IndyRef 2 because under Scottish Law Sovereignty rest with the people.”

    Actually.Ken500 it is much more significant that that.

    The Supreme Court, that was illegally set up by the Westminster Parliament that is illegally running itself as the only actual De facto Parliament of the country of England.

    This parliament, which, by their use of EVEL, no longer is the actual Parliament of the United Kingdom as defined by the Treaty of Union.

    EVEL effectively debars Scottish Members of the bipartite United Kingdom interfering in what only the de facto parliament of the country of England decides is country of England only matters.

    So effectively the Supreme court has just ruled that the bipartite Treaty of Union no longer legally applies.

    Thus, if there is no longer a Treaty of Union then there is no legal bipartite United Kingdom anymore.

    Where, though, is there an actual proper legal ruling that the bipartite Treaty of Union has ever ended? Other, that is, by the Supreme Court set up by a Westminster Parliament that believes itself to be simultaneously a Parliament of a United Kingdom that is, first of all, not still a bipartite Union and treats Scotland as another Kingdom of England annexed country.

    This even although there were no other new Kingdoms able to become United Kingdom partner members before or after 1707.

    Northern Ireland, as part of the Kingdom of Ireland, had become part of the then Kingdom of England in 1542 by the Crown Of Ireland Act and Wales was annexed by The English King in 1284 by the, “Statute of Rhuddlan”.

    Thus Westminster is working under the strange concept that they perceive themselves to be the bipartite United Kingdom while it also believes itself to be the actual Parliament of England overlord of Scotland, Wales and N.I.

    It factually actually is running itself as the de facto Parliament of England and is barring their actual only United Kingdom partner MPs from the Kingdom of Scotland voting on what the de facto Parliament of England decides is country of England only matters.

    There are Westminster commissioned papers that actually claim exactly that and the current Scottish Secretary has claimed on national TV that, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”

    Yet the closest there is to evidence of any such arrangements was that the first actual United Kingdom Parliament sat in the old Palace of Westminster that had been the parliament of England. However that Parliament sat and wound itself up and it was the bipartite United Kingdom parliament that burned to the ground and was replaced with the Present Parliament Building and funded by the two partner United Kingdom.

    Thus the legal position is that the de facto Parliament of the country of England has just withdrawn from the legal United Kingdom and that means, as there is no longer an actual bipartite United Kingdom, that the de facto Parliament of England has not only ended the legal United Kingdom but has already ceased to be the Member State of the EU.

    So as the Kingdom of Scotland are a legally equally sovereign partner of the now ended bipartite United Kingdom and have voted NOT to leave the EU they should immediately claim that the EU parliament recognise Scotland, being both a Kingdom and a country, be instated as the legacy continued EU member country.

    This would solve the EU’s, Scotland’s and England’s much disputed attempts to change boats midstream at a stroke.

    Now remember. Ken500 that I’ve been yelling that from the housetops for a very long time and been often getting pelters from certain quarters for just as long for doing so.

  264. Nana says:

    @Robert Sutherland

    Just feeling a bit down today Robert, I will be fighting fit again soon as rage takes over from disappointment.

    The more Westminster disregards our voice the better, but we have to work hard to get the truth out.

  265. Fred says:

    Blessed is he that expects nothing as he shall not be disappointed. Maybe Theresa should just get on with the suicide & we take the road less-travelled, for that’s what will make the difference.

  266. crazycat says:

    @ Dorothy Devine and lizg

    TTP and TTIP are two different things (though similar in many ways).

    TTP is the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which already exists, but cannot now be ratified (

    TTIP is the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership which is still being negotiated.

    It is the latter which directly affects us. Since they are/were companion agreements, there would no doubt be an indirect of TTP too.

    Unfortunately, CETA (a similar agreement with Canada and the EU) is at a far more advanced stage and would be binding for 20 years if ratified before actual Brexit.

  267. Ian Foulds says:

    Well said Mr. Peffers

    I really do hope some of our legal eagles can dust down their Scots Law tomes and actually address the Declaration of Arbroath, the Treaty of Union and any other relevant document, in order they can advise the Queen of Scots and tell Westminster and their Supreme Court what to do with their dictate.

    Should we consider recalling all but two of our MPs or, should we continue to be polite, until that avenue is exhausted?

  268. Lenny Hartley says:

    Indyref2 re Trident and whether its an independent system or not. our present Foreign Secretary said this a few years ago 🙂

  269. Scott Surgener says:

    I’m struggling to find any Burns night celebrations online. I’m overseas , can anybody point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top