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Wings Over Scotland


The sore point

Posted on January 07, 2021 by

Just for old times’ sake, during last night’s attempted coup in America we took a little dip back into the Yoonstream, the very special place on social media where the most deranged of Scotland’s Unionists hang out.

It didn’t disappoint.

You couldn’t move for frothing lunatics trying to draw parallels between the events in Washington and a series of wholly peaceful, wholly lawful independence marches and demonstrations, at which nobody got arrested and nobody got hurt despite some of them involving crowds of tens of thousands.

(And they all of course got VERY huffy and prickly when anyone pointed out to them that the only remotely significant scenes of violent political disorder in Scotland in the last 50 years were the gangs of Loyalist “Better Together” thugs rampaging in George Square the night after the indyref.)

Some particularly brainless Labour politicians even tried to use the disturbances to try to score points against the SNP by tweeting old pictures of Donald Trump with Alex Salmond – who isn’t in the SNP any more and who Trump famously loathes – while somehow not realising that people would remind them of this:

(McConnell being the man who as First Minister gave Trump a position as a business ambassador for Scotland in a specially-created organisation and wanted to dub him a “platinum Scot”, while it was the SNP who removed Trump from the position.)

And there was a constantly recurring theme that in some way the SNP and the Yes movement had somehow refused to accept the result of the 2014 referendum:

Yet the SNP could not possibly have respected the result of the 2014 referendum more if they’d tried. There was no manner of legal challenge to the outcome, no attempt to delegitimise it, let alone a violent storming of Parliament. Like all good democrats who lose a vote, the Yes movement has regrouped after its defeat and continued to seek its goals by lawful, peaceful and democratic means.

The Labour Party hasn’t dissolved itself and abandoned socialism forever just because it’s been thrashed in a whole series of elections in both the UK and Scotland. Nor have the Scottish Tories disbanded after being rejected in Scotland for 60 solid years.

Nicola Sturgeon has in fact grovelled endlessly at the feet of the 2014 result, insisting repeatedly that she’ll only attempt to seek independence for Scotland again if the UK government explicitly gives her permission, and doggedly refusing to act on a long list of democratic mandates to take some sort of firmer (but still lawful) action.

But in amongst the parade of demented roasters making idiots of themselves, there was one dig that did have a little sting of truth to it.

Because the SNP did spend most of the last four years trying to overturn the result of a democratic vote without any legitimate mandate to do so. It just wasn’t the indyref.

This site’s opinion is that Brexit is probably the stupidest thing the UK has ever done, but it was nevertheless the UK’s clear collective democratic will. It was voted for in a free and fair ballot, and there have been numerous elections since at which the people could have expressed the wish to change their mind. But they didn’t.

(And mumping that the 52-48 vote was too close for such a big decision really doesn’t work unless you’re prepared to establish the precedent that winning a second indyref by that margin wouldn’t be enough to secure independence.)

At not one but two general elections they voted overwhelmingly for parties pledged to enact Brexit. At the European election of 2019, the Brexit Party, which wasn’t even really a party, actually came first, beating all the mainstream parties out of sight.

The Lib Dems, despite having the unambiguously-Remain vote all to themselves, got less than 20% in that election, and less than 12% in both the 2017 and 2019 general elections. The UK electorate could not possibly have made it clearer that it wanted the result of the Brexit vote to be carried out, for good or ill, and eventually in its frustration it delivered Boris Johnson a large majority to get that job done, something that’s going to have disastrous consequences for everyone for years to come.

This site warned throughout 2019 that the SNP were making a foolish mistake in trying to override the democratic wishes of the UK as a whole (and primarily of England and Wales) – in other words, doing exactly what we all complain about and use as one of the primary justifications for independence when English votes foist Tory governments on Scotland – rather than focusing their energies on respecting Scotland’s vote to remain by getting Scotland out of the UK.

They had, and still have, a clear democratic mandate to seek independence. They had none whatsoever to block the UK’s exit from the EU, and the amount of time and effort they wasted on the attempt may yet prove to be fatal to the independence cause.

And as catastrophically dim as they certainly are, even the knuckle-dragging droolers of the Yoonstream know an open goal when they see one.

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    60 to “The sore point”

    1. Grouse Beater says:

      Scotland, a ‘one party state”

      Aye, that’ll be the British establishment, Westminster, Whitehall, British security, the entire British media, and a skipload of placemen to ensure Scotland remains subservient, all marshalled to ensure Scots pay an inflated rent forever to live in Scotland.

    2. Astonished says:

      Harsh but fair.

      Nicola Sturgeon and her courtiers are rubbish at political planning, political decisions and goal achieving with respect to independence.

      They are much better when the aim is genderwoowoo or thought crime.

      That’s why Nicola, Daddy Bear, Hamza Useless, John Nicholson and Stewart McDonald have all got to go.

    3. Bob Mack says:

      What else could we have expected from those whose second home was a lodge meeting.( In some cases their first home).

      Trump supporters wearing kilts.

      They will react exactly the same should the election be declared a plebiscite. We xhould expect that.

      Time marches on and the road to freedom narrows irrevocably.
      I fear if we remain inactive and lets face it ,rudderless, we sill have lost our chance forever.

      Sad times to have the wrong leader.Just ask America.

    4. kapelmeister says:

      Boris Johnson doesn’t need to storm the Scottish Parliament with his knuckle dragging supporters. He can just legislate to close it down and all the SNP will do is make a pompous verbal protest. Then Sturgeon will say vote for me at the next election.

    5. Desimond says:

      “focusing their energies”

      And that concludes today’s Sermon….

    6. ahundredthidiot says:

      Three different things.

      Unionist couldn’t pull off a Nashville

      Independence seekers wouldn’t pull off a Nashville

      Someone did though.

      And they’re capable, organised, motivated, prepared and clearly have an understanding of the weaknesses in US critical infrastructure.

    7. Livionian says:

      Don’t forget to remind them about the George Square statue protest violence by far right thugs in the summer as well. Add that to the very small list of political violence in the last 50 years in Scotland.

      But absolutely right to shame the yoons, and the trans lobby, that are so self obsessed and needing of attention that they have to make the storming of the US capitol about them. Toddlers.

    8. The `democrats` spent the last 4 years trying to delegitimize the Trump victory even tried to impeach him,

      they didn`t accept his victory he doesn`t accept Biden victory,

      not sayin either is wrong or right,

      i remember reading about cycling and drug misuse and one of the guys sayin if you don`t cheat you don`t even get on the starting line and to win you gotta be a better cheat than the next person.

    9. Ottomanboi says:

      Mrs Murrell, the Wicked Witch of the North, is a fellow traveller.
      https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/01/07/how-the-left-learned-to-love-the-tory-police-state/
      That it all ends very badly for them is devoutly to be wished.
      Nazism and Fascism both have roots in the anti-democratic ‘left’.
      Something ‘the left’ could lock you up for suggesting….after you’ve been given a really good seeing to by the rainbow storm troopers.
      https://www.pinknews.co.uk/images/2016/09/Cs1FmLFUIAA4G0u.jpg

    10. kapelmeister says:

      Trump was egging these people on……ah..egg…yes the nats threw an egg at Jim Murphy didn’t they?….see the connection!

      Expect a tweet resembling the above from Cole-Hamilton.

    11. Effijy says:

      so sickening to see the lies, the distortions the disturbed extremist right wing views expressed across the entire UK Media.

      Its the big money people and corporations who control the medias and its there to ensnare the crackpots who have more fists than brain cells.

      There is a finite amount of money in any economy so the more the wealthiest get the less there is for the vast majority.

      This imbalance of wealth is in its 57th year of rich get richer and joe average pays for it.

      Is mankind capable of stopping it? No.

      Lets get rid of the unemployed its their fault.
      Its the sick eating up NHS money
      Its immigrants
      Its Left loonies who want to strike
      Its too many pensioners.

      One by one they can pick them off without a thought of maybe
      the richest people are controlling the government, the media, not paying their taxes, fixing the markets, etc.

      Sorry to say the rich always win.
      I’m not in that team and could never think the way they do but i’ll stand against them at every turn.

      The UK’s richest man has around £21 Thousand Million and he is looking to relocate to Monaco to avoid tax?

      He battles every day to become richer and richer.
      He is in his later years, he could spend a Million every day and live to be 100 and still be stinking rich but he still wants your share and screw money for the needy, the NHS, the vulnerable.

      What kind of sick homo sapiens have allowed to evolve.
      Even Branson the billionaire looking for tax payer’s money for his toy airline.

      These people do more harm than any virus ever did.

    12. Polly says:

      Thank the Lord I missed all this late last night, it’s bad enough reading today. We know unionists do these things, we see it all the time, but to see so much of it at once is stomach churning, acid producing, bile boiling, fury of reaction to their lies and hatred towards a wholly peaceful movement who feel and think differently to them. I can only take so much of it at a time now in fear I become as spittle flecked with spewing hatred as they are.

    13. Giesabrek says:

      Go fuck yourself Stuart! Had to ruin it at the end and even make this all about your wee vendetta with Sturgeon. So like Trump. Fuck you and good luck with your next fundraiser. Have you got that brass neck and the balls to risk begging for one this year? Go on.

    14. Bob Mack says:

      Slightly o\t but relevant,

      Anyone know if Mark Hirst in court today ?.

    15. Polly says:

      And forgot to say, an excellent article you’ve written, and good argument made. You are indeed again being proved right in how things will play out politically from the choices of the last years.

    16. Tannadice Boy says:

      ‘Democracy depends on the loser accepting the result’ says a BBC reporter. How many people think their Brexit coverage was scrupulously balanced? The BBC did exactly the same during the Scottish Independence Referendum. Even the leader of the Better Together campaign admitted the BBC coverage was biased in their favour during the Independence Referendum but qualified that by saying you couldn’t prove it. On electoral consequences I was reminded of Jo Swinson. Started the 2019 GE campaign with a poll rating of 21 percent. 6 weeks later ended up on 12 percent and lost her seat. Possibly coming to a Parliament near you this May.

    17. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Anyone know if Mark Hirst in court today ?.”

      Yes he is. It’s not expected to be a long trial – I’ve been told around an hour – so we should have a result by teatime unless something unexpected happens.

    18. Iain More says:

      Oh the irony in that BBC Scotland’s favourite Yankee and STVs favourite Yankee and the P&J’s favourite Yankee turns out to be a terrorist. Naw bags support terrorism!!!!

      Trump just needs to say SNP bad once and he will get political asylum courtesy of our anti Scottish Press and Media.

      Oh and you cant tell me that 800,000 postal votes cast in the Indy referendum in a country the size of Scotland isn’t electoral fraud on a huge scale. We arent comparing like with like when comparing Scotland to America. Heck even Republican Georgia seems to have a fairer voting system, well they did elect a Black Senator, yet Douglas Red Card Ross could defy a huge swing against the Scottish Tory and Quisling Party in Scotland on the back of a huge number of Postal votes.

    19. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Go fuck yourself Stuart! Had to ruin it at the end and even make this all about your wee vendetta with Sturgeon. So like Trump. Fuck you and good luck with your next fundraiser. Have you got that brass neck and the balls to risk begging for one this year? Go on.”

      Thank you for your feedback. We haven’t done a fundraiser in 19 months, but it’s enormously telling that you’re only willing to fund news and opinion that agrees with you and feeds you what you want to hear, no matter whether it’s truthful or not. It really is an inexplicable wonder that we have such a bad media.

    20. Robert Louis says:

      Hey Nicola, you’ve had six years to achieve independence whilst the worst, epically stupid, incompetent Government ever in Westminster is in power. At a time when the British state is at its weakest, you have done nothing. NOTHING. And Scotland has been forcibly removed from the EU.

      Too busy trying to stop Englands brexit, too busy posturing, too busy pursuing loony trans cultist agendas. No time spent on independence. I and other Scots have been stripped of our EU citizenship, due to your ineptitude and intransigence.

      It has been ALLOWED to happen on the SNP’s watch.

    21. Lorna Campbell says:

      What really gets me is the monstrous insult to intelligence that both the extreme right-wing/left-wing lobby and the gender lobby represent. That we should have to justify another attempt to regain our independence in light of Brexit, the Internal Markets laws, etc. is beyond belief. That women are forced to crowdfund a case in the courts to ‘prove’ what a woman is is also beyond belief.

      Yet, here we are, having to justify ourselves against some of the greatest examples of cognitive dissonance known to human beings. We have no choice but to fight this right-wing/left-wing madness and nihilism or we go under. Already, in the States and here, centres of learning are caving in to this excrement on all levels, to extreme right and extreme left (actually, there is little difference, in reality, between the two and their effects, because they feed off each other, the extreme left having only the appearance of liberalism, both being utterly totalitarian in their instincts). We are living in very dangerous times when the New Inquisition and Witchfinder General are stalking the land.

      You people who believe this excrement – either right-wing/left-wing insanity or gender insanity – do you even understand that your pet nihilisms will destroy YOU? Have you no comprehension of what you are undermining in your quest for narcissistic orgasm of self? You cannot do other than, eventually, succumb to Stalinist destruction of human existence. Your madness will take on a life of its own and become the very thing you fear most. Society itself will become unsustainable, if you are allowed to have your way, and democracy, such as it is, will lose its tenuous hold on the West in favour of nihilistic self-destruction.

      Those of you who are mere followers of the extreme right/extreme left and of the gender anti science, you are following people who care nothing about you, for whom you are a mere tool to be used. They are psychopaths and sociopaths of the highest order and they mean us all harm – and that includes YOU, their eager Igors to their Flawed Frankensteins. Open your eyes before it is too late.

    22. Bob Mack says:

      @Giesabrek,

      Stu doesnt have to beg. ONLY needs to ask.

    23. Polly says:

      @ Giesabrek

      You think in critiquing the unionist use of the present American electoral turmoil to further their agenda against us there are no parallels to draw here except those which show the unionist side in a bad light? But the unionists will increasingly equate SNP policy of overturning brexit for the whole UK, which was so very prominent, as being exactly like Trump refusing to accept the electoral vote. And as they see that gain traction they will focus more on it. That is a genuine complaint they can level and not one which any on our side can readily argue with confidence against.

      That point alone is indeed worthy of criticism and Nicola Sturgeon was responsible for it, with her bus and her speech at the rally. It creates a weakness in any democractic deficit argument we often make which applies to Scotland being outvoted, and justifiably leaves her choice of that stop brexit strategy open to ridicule.

    24. Willie says:

      And when it comes to loon balls Westminster is now sending a carrier fleet of its new aircraft carrier and supporting flotilla to the China Seas in a show of Bold Britannia.

      I’d friggin dare Boris to let them have a go because China would absolutely destroy Britain’s naval forces absolutely utterly. But they won’t have a go. They know better. But you never know, China might and the shite bags would just crumble.

      Ditto the four Royal Navy gun boats said to be patrolling the English Channel. They’ll in truth be hiding from any French, or Spanish naval ships that might come out to see them. Again, like China, the French and the rest of the EU would flatten Britain’s forces.

      All this posturing though, is not good though. The EU and Mr Biden have already given Britain a kicking. Bo Jo’s chancing his luck.

    25. Bob Mack says:

      We should all try to remember that Democracy is not just about numbers. Democracy at its finest must take in law and human rights to function. Therefore self determination is just as applicable to the Democrstic process as being outnumbered 10 to 1.

      Some appear to have forgotten.

    26. George Rutherford says:

      Giesabrek 12.50pm

      Giesabrek is an Anagram of Peter Murrell.

      The gingerbread man is calling you.

    27. Ian McLean says:

      Point of order Stu:
      “The Labour Party hasn’t…. abandoned socialism forever” is debatable. Do you have a link for that one? ?

    28. “There was no manner of legal challenge to the outcome, no attempt to delegitimise it, let alone a violent storming of Parliament.”

      No response or even any acknowledgement, indeed, by the SNP of the numerous dubious incidents during the referendum and count that were reported, including the excessive proportion of ‘No’ postal votes, ballot papers with no barcodes, ballot papers being switched around in plain sight during the count, and piles of ‘Yes’ ballots being found dumped in bins. And who were the people in the Edinburgh Council building asking how people had voted as they left the polling booths? All this was reported to the authorities and nothing was done.

    29. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      I gather Mark Hirst has been acquitted. Sanity prevails.

    30. MaggieC says:

      Re Mark Hirst , This is from Mark’s twitter
      .
      Mark Hirst Vs the Crown.

      Acquitted.

      No case to answer.

      Thanks to everyone for the support.
      .
      https://twitter.com/Documark/status/1347166220148219906?s=20

      At last something good has happened in Scotland today . I’m so pleased for Mark and all his supporters .

    31. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Just posted this on the wrong page.

      From Twitter…
      Mark Hirst
      @Documark
      ·
      28m
      Mark Hirst Vs the Crown.

      Acquitted.

      No case to answer.

      Thanks to everyone for the support.

    32. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Great minds…

      8=)

    33. Bob Mack says:

      Great news Stu. Craig is up on 20th I think. Lets hope for a similar outcome.

    34. George Rutherford says:

      Wee Nicola’s Covid phone in every day.

      The majority of journalists from so called Scottish newspapers have english accents.

      Can these Scottish newspapers not find a Scottish journalist to work for them???

      Do they really need to go to England to find a suitable journalist?

      WTF is that all about???

    35. Ottomanboi says:

      Sir Ian McKellen is glad for her/him…..apparently.
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliot_Page
      What concern is it of his, or that it is of concern to the likes of Sir Starmer what some stoked American activists choose to do in Washington?
      This binary approve or condemn culture is pathetic, so school break time.
      What has happened to ‘couldn’t care’?

    36. Grouse Beater says:

      Indy Activist Mark Hirst Acquitted

      The independence activist Mark Hirst has been acquitted of all charges. The court said he had no case to answer.

    37. Ottomanboi says:

      @Willie.
      WW3, part of the Great Reset project.
      A nice war, boost the economy, cull excess population, establish Global government.
      Creepy sci-fi graphic novel stuff.
      Get the impression the SNP guys would completely out of their depth in that universe.

    38. Clwyd Griffiths says:

      They really are quite deranged, the uknats better together are as far right nationalist as you can get and yet accuse us of being like Trump. It’s their lack of self-awareness that gets me.

    39. J Galt says:

      Some might say the “coup” has succeeded.

    40. Blind Squirrel says:

      Disagree with this: “there was one dig that did have a little sting of truth to it.” But the rest was good. I know you will be relieved I approve of it ha ha! Sturgeon represents Scotland which voted clearly to remain. Every Scottish MP’s constituency voted to remain too. So unless you are British, Scotland was and is entitled, democratically, to claim it voted Remain – both as individual constituencies (100%) and as a whole nation. Same applies to ‘at not one but two general elections’ Scotland voted overwhelmingly for parties pledged to reject Brexit. She was entitled to try and stop it and in not answerable democratically to anyone outside Scotland.

    41. Karmanaut says:

      So I wonder if it will be David Leask, Tom Gordon or Neil Mackay who writes the “The Yes movement is just like Trump’s mob because reasons” piece in the Herald.

    42. Saffron Robe says:

      “They had, and still have, a clear democratic mandate to seek independence. They had none whatsoever to block the UK’s exit from the EU, and the amount of time and effort they wasted on the attempt may yet prove to be fatal to the independence cause.”

      Another excellent piece Stuart. It’s a shame you have to spend so much time and effort reiterating the obvious. Alas, there are none so blind as those who kneel at the altar of the sainted one…

    43. Republicofscotland says:

      Violence in George Sq neo-Nazi salutes by the British Nationalists, assaults stabbing etc, this is the footprint of British Nationalists.

      Over 100,000 march in Scotland in one rally alone for Scottish independence, no violence and no arrests, I rest my case.

      As for Sturgeon, her party actively (the arrest and imprisonment of Manni Singh) tries to hinder the rallies of AUOB, maybe we should’ve concentrated our protests more on Sturgeon in the last four years than the actions of the British Nationalists, but of course hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    44. Elmac says:

      Re Mark Hirst. “No case to answer” suggests it should never have been brought to court. The public must be given answers to the following questions:
      – Why was the prosecution brought since it clearly had no merit?
      – Which individual(s) promoted/sanctioned it?
      – Will Mark Hirst be entitled to costs and damages for wrongful
      prosecution?
      – Will those responsible for the prosecution be sacked or at
      least severely reprimanded?
      – Will the repercussions be made public? If not, why not?
      – Does the outcome undermine the prosecution case against Craig
      Murray? If so will that be dropped now and will Craig also be
      entitled to claim costs and damages.

      The only way we can ever stop such abuses by those in public office is to make them personally responsible for their actions. In other words, they should be in the same position as the rest of us in the real world.

      I don’t suppose this will bring us any closer to exposing the identities of the alphabet women. I never thought I would live to see the legal system being (ab)used to shield apparent criminals from justice. Hopefully it will all come out soon and AS will successfully pursue for damages from those who lied and conspired against him, including the press and broadcasters. At this stage it seems clear that our corrupt legal system will not prosecute at least some of these women for perjury and criminal conspiracy.

    45. Clwyd Griffiths says:

      I can see the likes of Historywoman Jill Stephenson who has previously she wouldn’t accept indy and there will be civil war, George Galloway in his ha and, Neil Oliver with his flowing locks with the extremists of Scotland in Union & These Islands charging up to Holyrood waving their union jacks trying to occupy the building after a successful Yes vote next time. Mark my words.

    46. James Che. says:

      I am left wondering why the MSM were always ramping up any bad news about Donald trump,
      After all the replacement they are cheering for is as dodgy as the one leaving, and have more wokery by miles.
      Perhaps DJ did not let the media have their own way, or perhaps it was his attempts to bring troops home from useless wars.
      Whatever it may be, in the new order things will definitely get worse in America, if you have to bend the knee to bullies and defund your police at the same time,

    47. Lochside says:

      I’m sure that I was not the only one watching the fascist mob breaking so easily into the White House last night on the t.v. and didn’t see parallels with September 19th 2014 in George Square?

      What was clear that the ‘security’ in both cases was far less than required as in both instances, particularly as ‘intelligence’ services knew that these people ( or in Scotland’s case..’peepul’) would turn up mob handed and be violent with it.

      It was pretty strange how well the Trump mob knew their way around the White House, a massive building, once they stormed in. And the manner that they were allowed to stroll away free of arrest hours afterwards was intriguing to put it mildly.

      US sources are promising ‘insurrection’ charges against the ones they catch. In Scotland’s case an orchestrated attack on ordinary civilians by a another mob of orange fascists merited a dozen arrests but none for conspiracy. I wonder why?

    48. Athanasius says:

      I guess it’s only a coup when Trumpies do it.

    49. Iain More says:

      James Che. says:
      7 January, 2021 at 2:29 pm

      “I am left wondering why the MSM were always ramping up any bad news about Donald trump,”

      They weren’t during the Scots Indy Referendum. They were promising to perform sexual acts on him every time he bellowed SNP bad or Salmond bad. On what planet were you livi9ng to have missed that obsequious behavior and Yoonery from he MSM.

    50. The Other Giesabrek says:

      Just to say that it appears someone else has recently(?) been posting as Giesabrek and unlike their ranting, I agree with everything you’ve said above Stu!

      And I’ll look forward to contributing to any necessary future fundraiser too!

    51. The Other Giesabrek says:

      “Blind Squirrel says:
      7 January, 2021 at 1:50 pm
      Sturgeon represents Scotland which voted clearly to remain. Every Scottish MP’s constituency voted to remain too. So unless you are British, Scotland was and is entitled, democratically, to claim it voted Remain – both as individual constituencies (100%) and as a whole nation. Same applies to ‘at not one but two general elections’ Scotland voted overwhelmingly for parties pledged to reject Brexit. She was entitled to try and stop it and in not answerable democratically to anyone outside Scotland.”

      Not exactly Blind Squirrel. I agree she was right to try once, maybe twice to presuade England and Wales that Brexit was a very bad idea but then she should’ve quickly given up and pursued the only remaining logical option – if the UK voted to leave the EU then Scotland needed to leave the UK if it wanted to stay in the EU. Funnily enough Sturgeon has made barely a tenth of the effort pursing that course of action than she and the SNP did trying to stop Brexit.

    52. Another_Ian_Blackford_Speech says:

      I think we all need to pause for a moment, take a deep breath, and respect a decent trolling twitter handle when we see one. Bravissimo senor Tattiscone.

    53. Intractable Potsherd says:

      “… mumping that the 52-48 vote was too close for such a big decision really doesn’t work unless you’re prepared to establish the precedent that winning a second indyref by that margin wouldn’t be enough to secure independence.”

      Actually, I do think it is far too small a majority for such a big decision, whether coming out of the EU or leaving the Union. These things should have a *clear* majority, not just the political equivalent of noise in the system. At the very minimum, it should be 55%, with 60% being better. If effectively half of the voters don’t go for it, you haven’t made your case.

      If you want a bare majority (i.e. 50+ per cent, you need to state clearly how the other half will have their voices heard in the new setup. If the Tory scum had taken the time to listen to the near-equal number of voices against Brexit, we wouldn’t have been in the current mess.

    54. cirsium says:

      @Michael Laing, 1.28

      Not to mention the absence of exit polls, which are the key to determine if an election is honest and a check on the official count to ensure that it is legitimate.

    55. Blind Squirrel says:

      The Other Giesabrek you can disagree with the strategy or what Sturgeon does, but there is no element of truth whatsoever that Sturgeon went against democracy when it comes to Brexit, which is what Wings suggests. That is completely wrong. Her democratic mandate does not extend beyond Scotland and owes nothing to Britain. But I agree there was an opportunity lost to do more to gain independence. Which is what I hope for with all my heart.

    56. Rick H Johnston says:

      Scotland’s anti-Brexit vote is not in dispute. All 32 Council areas including the fishing areas voted remain.
      What frustrated Yessers was the Stop Brexit bus that revealed that independence was not the SNPs priority.
      We must assume that the strategy was to show that Scots wanted to stay as EU citizens.
      If so that was achieved big time.
      Next is the May election when if voters want to retrieve EU citizenship they’ll need to vote for Indy parties.
      So when is a mandate for an Indyref undeniable.
      Well you either trust the word of the people through them casting their votes, OR you trust the word of the PROVEN LIAR Boris Johnson.
      I think I’ll trust the people.

    57. SimonC says:

      I’m not sure where I stand on the SNP, the statement that the SNP respected the 2014 vote is still questionable to me. It’s not that NS is hypocritical of condemning the attack on US democracy, I remember her stance that the vote in 2014 should be accepted. But to note there was a lot of noise from other SNP members around that time to allow a second vote the morning after the 2014 vote.

      More example of a disunited SNP government that cannot even agree amongst themselves, how does one expect to achieve independence soon with a shit show like the SNP?

    58. Val says:

      I think that Sturgeon did have the right to continue to protest against Brexit, given the percentage of Scots who wanted to remain in the EU. Of course we all knew the EU negotiations would be a shit show, and Scotland’s interests would be sacrificed. This has assisted the Indy cause.
      On the criticisms of Sturgeon not doing enough to directly push the Indy agenda, we need to look at what is strategically smart. It’s really not that strategically smart to fight two battles at once. Irish former Taoiseach and arch-strategist Bertie Ahern is on record saying that his advice would be to let Brexit play out. Only then can Sturgeon give the undecided voters and fence sitters a proper comparison when it comes to the Economy.
      We have waited 300 years. The May 2021 elections results may well see the Tories kick Boris into touch. The Martin Keating case may also give a clear pathway. Let’s not f*ck this up with in-fighting and stupidity.

    59. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “We have waited 300 years. The May 2021 elections results may well see the Tories kick Boris into touch. The Martin Keating case may also give a clear pathway. Let’s not f*ck this up with in-fighting and stupidity.”

      Fucksake. WE DIDN’T DO THIS. Nicola Sturgeon did this when she tried to frame an innocent man and put him in jail for the rest of his life for something he didn’t do. Everything happening now flowed from her actions, not ours.

    60. holymacmoses says:

      NICOLA Sturgeon today takes a dramatic step towards a second independence referendum, dismissing “oil, national wealth and balance sheets” as less important than self-governance for Scotland.

      Writing exclusively in the Sunday Herald, in an article marking the second anniversary of the vote of 2014, the First Minister also says that self-governance “transcends the issue of Brexit”.

      THat was Sept 2016 just 3 months after the Brexit vote .

      Is there any explanation as to what has happened?

      Sturgeon seems to have lost all her confidence and seeks succour in surrounding herself with dimwits and hiding herself in fiction.
      It’s almost as if she’s been compelled to create a parallel fiction (or fictions) in her own life as a coping mechanism

      It seems that fiction and fact have become so intertwined as to become her mental narrative. Worst of all, she seems to be allowing the dimwits to drive her narrative, probably because they’re the only people who seem less in control than she is and therefore she feels confident and superior in their presence.
      But her sphere of conscious influence is diminishing and she knows that she is no longer in control of either the action or the ending of the plot. The few dramatic scenes she manages to direct all build towards a tragic end.

      Moral: always know the strengths of your protagonist before you decide to write yourself into futuristic delusional literature involving their downfall



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