The shoogly peg
Posted on
October 07, 2017 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Prof. Curtice’s latest view on support for the SNP and on Independence:
“The SNP’s electoral dilemma has been misdiagnosed”
https://archive.fo/Tj5Qf
The SNP Conference is on the Parliamentary Channel.
Alex Clark 12.10
Not sure how accurate Curtis’ diagnosis is –
but it highlights yet again the case for a ‘simple’ indyref2.
Independence or not.
Everything else is for debate in an independent Scotland.
Gordon Strachan says we’re genetically not good enough to win at football
Takes me back to Johann Lamont telling us that Scots were not genetically programmed to govern ourselves
How do those teeny weeny Spanish players manage it then
and who do Catalonia think they are
According to Gordon and Johann
Genetics maybe causes you to be an Arse as well
Peter McCulloch says
I agree the Labour stance is just opportunism as they sense Tory melt down.
However, should the melt down occur I am fairly sure Labour will agree to stay full in the single market with a few minor concessions. IMO The only options ever available were – fully in single market or crash out. All the Leave talk of good deals cherry picking from the single market were always just fantasy.
If the Tories survive and carry out their walk away threat, Labour won’t have the opportunity to deal with the EU.
Perhaps the lines are about to be clearly drawn. Tories as the party of crash out, Labour as the single market party.
I also agree about ‘satisfying those who voted leave’, the Tories could only achieve that by crashing out, in reality. Labour, on the other hand could take the electoral risk of a moderate Brexit.
Therein lies my biggest fear …. a general election, labour win, single market Brexit, no excuse for IndyRef2 …. Scotland’s problems in the Union unresolved.
I hope folk take the time to read what Ken500 has posted at 11.53.
It’s some top grade bullshit. The elected gov’t of Catalonia get elected on a mandate of an independence referendum, but he’s calling it illegal, and the Catalonian gov’t ‘big shots’, whilst predicting all manner of nastiness to come.
I’m sure the Indy supporters of Catalan would thank you for belittling their efforts, and the gov’t they elected.
Ffs
I hate bigotry and sectarianism with a vengeance but we all know Ruth Davidson used and made it a plank of her GE campaign to collect votes
Maybe Prof Curtice and the media should start admitting it exists and do the numbers on that
I am being denied access to newsnet Scotland by 403 is any one Else finding this ???
Blair Paterson. I too am being denied access to newsnet Scotland.
I too am being denied access to newsnet Scotland had this problem last week as well.
Valerie
ken has been punting that line 4 a few days now, hoping to convince people that catalans are monsters.
he is a troll, notice how he immediately posts that the snp conference is now on tv,
its called deflection,
if enough of us tell him to fuck off, maybe he will
does anyone know who ken500 actually is? have any wingers actually met him/her?
I too am being denied access to newsnet Scotland
Dr jim 11.22am. One of the best posts ive read on here. Get off your knees Scotland,and back the government who are putting you first.
@Valerie
“I hope folk take the time to read what Ken500 has posted at 11.53.”
I read it and IMO it is not him, too many grammatical errors.
Ken500’s stuff is generally reasonably accurate factually as well.
I have seen Ken post here and on the Guardian for several years. The crazy that is posted at 11:53 reads like one of the Madridbots that were posting on the MSM boards.
Ken may have been Wraped or whatever the Wings version of Fraped is.
Article 50 was triggered in March, almost 6 months ago.
Quickly the EU set out the initial essentials – rights, Ireland, bill. The UK agreed.
How far have we got? Not very! Why?
Perhaps citizen’s rights have gone furthest but the Tories don’t want ECJ jurisdiction after Brexit. EU wants this to be the highest court for its citizens. A sticking point.
Ireland is a problem for the Tories because of their DUP support. The EU, especially the Rep., wants the North in customs union and single market. How the UK achieves this is seen as the UK’s problem. The DUP won’t like any of the obvious solutions. This all seems insurmountable.
As for the divorce bill, it seems increasingly as if the Tories just don’t want to pay anything at all. Admittedly, it will be a difficult sell to English Nationalist voters. So again, very difficult for the Tories to just agree to pay up.
Now the whole thing is pretty much stuck in Tory muck before it gets very far!
So what did Leave actually want, or what did they think could happen? Not voters, but those who promoted the whole Brexit idea. What did the planners plan? My guess is walk away, default of financial agreements, and fall back on WTO, is actually what the ‘Brexit drivers’ always wanted. Looks like they are achieving their goal.
I have seen Ken post here and on the Guardian for several years. The crazy that is posted at 11:53 reads like one of the Madridbots that were posting on the MSM boards.
Ken may have been Waped or whatever the Wings version of Faped is.
Newsnet Scotland was subject to an internet attack a few days ago and was off-line. Repairs were made to get back on-line 4th but it seems to have gone down again. Try this.
https://twitter.com/NewsnetScotland
@ Valerie / Chick McGregor
Ken500 has been intermittently asserting that the Catalans don’t want independence ever since their previous referendum in 2014. It’s one of his pet themes, along with the Greens being the root of all evil and how we need FPTP for all elections.
I just ignore those bits of his posts now, and hope that I pick up on the interesting stuff in between.
@crazycat
Copy that.
Hot off the press, Alyn Smith’s new book, Scotland in Europe, written in conjunction with some others. He says he knows there is a case to make in foreword.
Pdf document, 76 pages
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3WzAC_bN3YnejV1NWQzTzhWbEE/view
Galamcennalath, if that comes to pass should the SNP then state that in every election there on in if a majority for independence supporting parties in holyrood or majority elected members in Westminster will be the basis for the end of the end of the union with England? No more referendums.
I hear what you guys are saying about the post at 11.53.
Duly noted, but it’s pretty nasty anti independence stuff. so might be helpful if it gets cleared up.
@ galamcennalath
The next big myth that is on point of exploding is – fall back on WTO tariffs.
In past few weeks, quite a few in the know have been posting just how complicated WTO is, and it runs on unanimity.
There are 3 lots of tariffs, and complex how you access and how they are applied.
Then of course, the EU 27, and all their free trade partners are in WTO, so how easy is it for UK to do this fall back???
Take a read of George Kerevan in the National today, then get your Reframing boots on and campaign!
http://www.thenational.scot/politics/15583719.George_Kerevan__Use_it_or_lose_it_____we_have_a_mandate_and_we_need_to_hold_indyref2_before_2021/
O / T re Gordon Strachan
I can understand people not being fans of Strachan. Either to do with the way he interacts with journalists, or his running of the Scotland team. As for his interacting with Journos, this morning my postie said that was one of the best bits about G. S. Remember who he’s dealing with the MSM Unionist organisations.
Yes he lost it in the last campaign and at the beginning of this one, but the Team have just gone 7 games unbeaten, I read this morning it’s the best run in 20 years. He’s a manager who knows the players and has an I depth knowledge of what’s available. Aand has the team playing for him. If Scot Brown and Stuart Armstrong had been available maybe we’d now be looking forward to a play off (however it has to be said, Darren Fletcher played very well last night)
In recent years the SFA selection process has served up Bertie Voigts and Craig Levine.
So should we do as the BBC hacks want and get rid of GS. Then get involved in the roulette of bringing in a new manager, or stick with the man who has got the team performing.
Finally success at football has an enormously beneficial effect on the nations moral. Does anybody seriously think that is something the BBC wants.
If you get the chance listen to Dr Phillipa Whitfords speech to conference
Solid no nonsense speech from a solid no nonsense woman talking plain common sense
Plenty of SNP and others are aware. Never attend wingers do. Not from not wanting. Just never come about. Attended Official Rallies. That is not the point. Personalities are irrelevant. Independence is the most important. Always believed in it. Always. Annoyed the way Scotland has been continued held back. Especially from education. Got all the impartial facts from extremely, talented good people with no axe to grind. All the facts. Where the money was going etc. How it was being done. The Secrets etc, The Press compliance. The gender gap. Housing policy. Everything. They hated Thatcher with a passion.
One of them – politics – once said. ‘The young conservatives should be put up at the fence at Hillsborough’ to audience including them. Bit extreme. No political correctness at that time. A Oxbridge English person. They took no prisoners. Some of the private school boys used to mock the Scottish accent. One of them used the loan (had to be paid back) to buy shares The other Georgie (Politics)stood for the SNP. At the time it was a puzzle because of the way the SNP were portrayed. That is when M15 and the Official Secrets Act was doing the dirty job for the Tories. This was before overall open access to computers. Much more relative now. For public access to information. The best time of your life.
Facts can now easily be accessed now on the Internet in five to ten to disprove much of the propaganda. Look at Nana’s efforts.
Many the SNP ministers and the officials have had a really good education or held good positions. They know how to access information etc. They are good people.
Only joined because of another issue. On of the things that they achieved important for the economy. Would never join a political Party for obvious reasons. Most folk don’t.. Wish l had joined before. Deliver a few leaflets make a donation now and then etc. Where’s the problem with that. Then sitting getting more and more annoyed. It helps to do something.
Could not believe when the SNP came along and made such a good job of it. It is a passion.
Col says
Well, if that comes to pass, ie a crash and burn Brexit then IndyRef2 will definitely happen. And if Scots don’t opt for Indy under the present circumstances, and with recent attitudes to Scotland, then they probably never will.
I sincerely hope there will be no more elections while within the Union!
However, who knows. May might try a “Madrid” on us. Corbyn might save the Union with a soft Brexit. Natural disaster, disease, or world war might change everything!
Stu is also having technical difficulties today he says via twitter.
Hmmm.
Re Ken500 – he quite often goes off on a rant. I assume he has forgotten to take his medication. But this Mardridbot theory is interesting too. I thought that 11.53 post was out of character although he does have a bee in his bonnet aout the Greens.
The 2017 snap GE, or any other GE, CANNOT Abe used to win an indyref mandate.
That can ONLY happen in a Holyrood election.
Such a mandate was won in 2016, and is as valid now as it was then.
The loss of 21 MP’s did NOTHING to weaken the mandate to hold an indyref.
If unionists wish to claim it did, then by definition, the fact the SNP won a majority (35 Seats) means the union is ended.
After all, if Unionists are claiming support at WM elections are the defining argument for independence support, then they must also accept that a simple majority of Scottish seats (30) = an independent Scotland.
Something worth pointing out during media interviews surely ?
RD….”the SNP lost 21 MP’s, that means indy support is dead”
Nicola (or any yes minded person)…”if RD is saying WM support = indy support, then 35 seats is a declaration of independence”.
Get out of that.
What is the Herald playing at?!
” Sturgeon says no-deal Brexit might make another EU referendum “irresistible”
Irresisitble? Sturgeon suggests voters might have right to another EU vote if there is no-deal Brexit “
EURef!? WTF !
Stupidity? Gross carelessness? Or a warped agenda? Or all three!
http://archive.is/zNc3R
Our mood and cognitive abilities are impacted on and either impaired or improved by stress, sugar, music and stuff. Just saying.
https://www.facebook.com/TEDEducation/videos/1127655593914312/?pnref=story&_fb_noscript=1
Worth a repost of this Euromyths blog(from Rev’s feed). To inform and to put paid to the ‘EU’ is some sort of dictatorial overlord telling us to make our bananas straight.
Spread around folks to the misinformed amongst us, it’s well sourced and cited, just the kind of factual information we need out there.
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/
In that link by galamcennalth@ 2.25, it is claimed that Theresa May has said No to a section 30 order this side of 2022.
This is 100% gibberish.
WM and Theresa May HAVE NOT OFFICIALLY responded to a FORMAL REQUEST for a section 30 order, because the Scottish Government HAS NOT FORMALLY ASKED FOR ONE YET.
I have a Tory acquaintance (I know I know) for over 40 years
and this guy would never vote for Independence ever, but, he votes SNP at every Holyrood election because he admits the SNP are far and away the best at running Scotland, he can’t stand Ruth Davidson and he has no confidence whatsoever in the Tories ability to do the job and the thought of Labour in charge fills him with abject terror
Both his sons are SNP members who voted YES
@geeo 2:17pm
You’re presuming we live in a democracy
I like to use this phrase, “Show me the 1707 referendum results” That’s usually answered by Unionists just making noises
This does seems to be borne out as the case Dr Jim, throughout Scotland. My parents are both very anti independence, and I mean dye in the wool unionist in outlook, but both vote SNP and have done for years as they see them as doing a very good job in government.
Also, spoke to one of my nephews recently, said he got sucked into the vote Labour, Corbyn pish and voted for them at the GE. Says he’s seen the light and never again as he realised a lot of his older friends got caught up in the ‘socialist’ Corbyn fever and he got persuaded by their hope.
He volunteered this information and it was heartening to see his reassessment in the light of the actual reality Brexit wise etc, for Scotland. Hopefully there are many more younger folk waking up to this, who also got sucked into to the brainwashing propaganda that was being fired intae us during that campaign.
Keep talking to folk, keep providing them with the information that debunks mainstream tosh. We’ll get there.
kens last post is a vague deflecting piece of rambling havers.
no denial
Anyone who has been a relative frequent visitor to Spain including Barcelona, Catalonia or the State of the economy. The banking/housing crash. Realises the score. The corruption at every level Time will tell.
Wish so many people in Scotland were are concerned about their future and political matters as football. It might help.
Scotland is a relative small country. Small population. So the expectation of talent pro rata has to be considered by comparison of population. Climate, sports investment etc.
Aspects the size of the pool (as a percentage) quite matter. Scotland is the home of football there is no doubt. That is an historical aspect. Scotland being constantly depopulated would not help.
5Million people. As against. Millions in Brazil, Spain, (40 milllion) Russian 320Million. USA 320 Million. England 55Million Etc. To get access to available talent. That’s why Andy/Jamie Murray is such a phenomenon. Amazing determination and talent. Courage. Their mum helped too.
To compete and do well is not a disgrace at all. Mind some sports clubs get excesses of favourable public money. Some pay no taxes yet never stop advocating their express support for others paying them. It does not go as far as paying union taxes. HMRC not fit for purpose.
@Ian Brotherhood says: 8 October, 2017 at 10:50 pm:
“I am one of the ‘many’ but I must ask this of you – please stop using words such as ‘faction’ when referring to those WOS regulars who voice disquiet about the SNP.”
Ian, I was not being rude by not replying to your request that I not use the term, “faction”, on Wings. The main reason I made no immediate reply was that I very rarely ever do things in anger.
I consider well every word I post. There is absolutely no evil connotations in the term, “faction”. Furthermore there is only one Moderator on Wings and that moderator is the Rev Stu.
Now, far from wishing to chase people from wings who disagree with my own personal views I encourage debate. Wings is most successful for the very reason that there is few commenters barred from posting.
To the best of my knowledge Rev Stu usually emails a warning to anyone he judges to have overstepped the mark. Unlike most blogs who just ban anyone they personally do not like or even just disagree with. Open debate is a healthy sign.
I will say no more than to quote the on-lone dictionsry definition of the term you find objectionable:-
I now believe I have had enough of the anti-SNP faction for a while – perhaps a spell of lurking is in order and allow the anti-SNP faction get on with driving people from the blog.
I’m not sure exactly what the political situation currently is with Spain and Catalonia.
https://twitter.com/catalannews/status/917369435215880192
But if the EU does not step in to protect Catalonia if need be, then I’m not really sure what the point of the EU is.
Dr Jim,
“I like to use this phrase, “Show me the 1707 referendum results” That’s usually answered by Unionists just making noises”
Excellent point. I’ve never actually thought of making the point in that way before. I once tried explaining to some british nationalist moron about how in 1707 one bunch of aristocratic parasites in Scotland sold the country to another bunch of aristocratic parasites in England with no say given to the people. If I recall correctly the response was along the lines of aye but…… which faded into half hearted bluster about how Salmond was a potential dictator or something.
All they’ve got is their own bullshit which they have to eat all day every day.
To many people are taken in by propaganda. They just do not bother to check the facts.
Actually sick of the misjudged comparison between Catalonia and Scotland by people who never go there. It could alternately be exclusively used as propaganda against Scottish Independence by any opposition. The total inaccurate comparisons. Take the rose coloured glasses off being so biased and non impartial. A totally one sided view. There was nothing democratic about it. The majority did not support both votes. Yet is claimed as 90% victory. On a 43% turnout, victory. Totally corrupt.They boycotted or chose NO. Both times. Interfering in another countries affairs but rightly not wanting other countries to interfere in Scotland’s affairs. Why don’t they go on about the breaches of International Law in the U.K. and the brutal actions of the Police here. Lecturing others. The Police in Scotland are arresting people on ‘charges’ which can never come to court. Including vulnerable people, traumatising them putting them in cells overnight. When they should not even be detained.
Maybe there will be changes to the way some Spanish police carry on. After the international condemnation. Don’t hold your breathe.
An snp manifesto should state. 3 mnths after independence,we will hold a referendum on staying/leaving the EU.
On a 43% turnout, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
including the 700,000 ballots stolen by spanish polis, thats a 55% turnout
did you forget that ken? oh and btw,
what snp branch are you a member of?
@ Macart says at 8:37 am ….
Thanks for that Macart. Excellent post and straight to the point as usual.
………………………….
Nicola Sturgeon has spent her whole life working for Independence. She’s not changed her mind now, however she’s got to go with the flow. She’s taken Indyref2 off of the table (just not talking about it) in an attempt to basically shut people like Davidson up. As she has stated on numerous occasions she WILL make a move when the Brexit fiasco deal is made clear and that move will amount to calling for another Referendum, followed by outlining the repercussions of Brexit and all aspects, such as economy and currency, relating to Scotland going on, on it’s own. Someone like Gove (excellent, but sneaky debator) will probably be wheeled out to take over from Darling to debate the future.
Although we can’t see it, don’t know what’s going on, her many prestigious experts such as on the Standing Committee will have been / are beavering away in the background preparing the data / statistics that Nicola will utilise when the time comes. Nicola has no doubt also been looking into EU/EFTA membership too and if she’s being informed that we could be out of the EU / single market for any great length of time, which would be absolutely catastrophic for our economy (and totally undermine the decision to become Independent), she’ll probably opt for EFTA (just my opinion) until the dust settles, we get on our feet, and then hold our own EU referendum prior to which all true, valid facts will be made known to the Scots.
Following on from all the hard work she has done, on Referendum day, it’s down to the sovereign Scots to make their decision at the ballot box. That brings us back to the basics. There’s no point on talking about holding a Referendum (how many would turn out for it / scunner off completely) or going to Court (where we could lose) to prove that we are a sovereign people, discussing EU/EFTA at this time, if we don’t have the numbers to support Independence. If we don’t have the support for Independence we can forget all about the latter issues. In other words you could have the vast majority demanding that we be recognised as being sovereign but if the vast majority of sovereign Scots want to remain as part of a Brexiting Union Nicola Sturgeon and you and I can do nothing about it, will have to accept it. You and I have to keep on trucking, getting the facts out there, out on the streets, in the shops and pubs; supporting Wings; other pro-Independence bloggers and our Independence supporting newspapers. That’s the way to do it. The only course open to us. Meanwhile take heart that the Unionists and Brexit are making our case for us.
Re. ingrained BritNat identities. Cultural imperialism is a terrible beast and traditional, colonised, ways of thinking can be hard to overcome, especially when there is an entire culture industry dedicated to projecting the ‘One Nation’ ideology. Expect an entrenchment of opinion as the BritNat pathology becomes the minority outlook.
https://wp.nyu.edu/essentialsofcuisine/wp-content/uploads/sites/3336/2016/01/Deliberate-identities-becoming-local-in-America-in-a-global-age.pdf
Globalization and the politics of identity
http://hyllanderiksen.net/UNChron.html
http://www.cultureforcitiesandregions.eu/culture/project/activities/cultural_heritage
IMHO, Scottish culture is absorbed into the ‘One Nation’ ideology and then reproduced in a form that is compatible with British nationalism. British nationalism attempts to justify a state of colonialism in the 21st century but fails. This has far reaching and harmful effects on the moral psychology of Scottish society.
British nationalism lacks an essential appreciation of ethical normative practice, frankly.
petra
if the vast majority of sovereign Scots want to remain as part of a Brexiting Union Nicola Sturgeon and you and I can do nothing about it, will have to accept it.
—————-
I hate to say it but you are correct, all this talk about having indyref2 before or after we brexit, before or after 2021 holyrood election etc, is a distraction.
indyref2 will happen when we will win. if the polls dont move in our favour in 2018, then we will look to 2019, and so on until the people of scotland are ready.
i hope opinion moves towards yes sooner rather than later, i want an independent scotland yesterday
The faction:
They perpetually insinuate and often downright state that the SNP are to all intents and purposes not going on enough about independence, or enough for them at least. Screeds of text outlining their own personal issues and bugbears with the SNP and or to show they are not part of the SNP and to prove that, they come out with all manner of criticisms, over petty stuff surrounding policy and the issue of what the SNP is doing or not doing ‘about’ independence itself.
A constant theme of undermining of the SNP is there for all to see, and any, and I mean any kind of questioning of them, can result in an outright attack on the poster for even asking where they are coming from. Or in one case the poster posts a litany of copy and paste from what some poster that he hates has said in the past and this is used to jibe said poster again to undermine. It’s actually a bullying tactic, it’s to shut them up.
Others then jump on the bandwagon supporting their complaints and others jump in to make the point time and again, that the SNP are the vehicle. It comes across as a totally confused mess. Like people trying to prove they are right in the strongest terms and brooking no reproach, no debate. We are at the point where if someone misquotes what a poster says by one word, that poster literally goes apeshit in his reaction…it’s downright weird that everyone is letting all the shit pass.
But you know what? It’s also understandable, because what you get for noticing is at best an awful insulting response and at worse? An awful insulting response.
It’s nasty stuff. And Robert is right to back off. And others are too. Result: ‘allow the anti-SNP faction get on with driving people from the blog.’
@Dr Jim 2.37pm
There is that !
Places like the uk simply give off an air of democracy, yet indulge themselves in NON democratic actions, the most relevent being the attempts to deny the democratic will of the Scottish Electorate in regards to an indyref.
In regards to the EU ref…they gnash their teeth and shout..”we HAVE to accept brexit because we ARE democrats”
Yet these self same democrats want to deny an electorally mandated Indyref, ratified by the Scottish Parliament….where are the muffled anguished cries of…”we don’t want an indyref, but…we ARE democrats”.
Democracy is something that places like the uk gov bomb into brown people, in return for lucrative oil contracts.
There’s no great mystery to reading a blog, its comments and posting on an open forum. It’s meant to be a pleasure and your participation is entirely down to you the reader.
If you find someone’s comments to be offensive, move on by. If you personally, consider some comments/posters are ill informed and deliberately overly argumentative, move on by. Don’t let the occurrence ruin your experience. If you find such a person attempts to address you directly. You are under absolutely no obligation to reply or interact. So again, if it suits, move on by.
There’s plenty of well informed friendly folk on here to read or talk to and as I said, your level of participation is entirely up to you.
You’ll live longer, have less heartburn and probably smile more. 🙂
And there was Wingers thinking Ken500 had been hacked.
Pretty clear now. Ken500 supports the fascist Rajoy gov’t (who incidentally has evaded investigation for corruption) and the goose stepping Nazi saluting Spanish support.
Shame on you, Ken500. Get educated on the situation, or you might want to hide your fascist support a bit better on this forum.
As many have said, no matter your allegiance, this is about the Rights of self determination, and the abuse of VOTERS. Ordinary people voting about their wishes, not people seeking trouble or violence.
‘There’s plenty of well informed friendly folk on here to read or talk to and as I said, your level of participation is entirely up to you.’
Agreed Macart…but…you’re simply not on enough for us to read more of your informed and friendly input 🙂
@K1
Whey thungyou. 😀
Seriously though, I know I’m not here as often these days K1, but the real world and… reasons. (sigh) Don’t have problems or obligations to seek as it were.
OT
“OIL services firm Wood Group is now a “global leader” in its field following the completion of its £2.2 billion takeover of rival Amec Foster.”
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15585169.This_Scottish_oil_giant_just_became_a__global_leader__after___2_2bn_takeover/
Dare I say, perhaps now we know why Wood was talking down the value of oil to Scotland …
@Robert Peffers –
Thanks for your response. I apologise if my comment angered you last night – that certainly wasn’t the intention.
I stick by what I wrote.
Perhaps I’m in denial of some kind, but I don’t believe there is an organised SNP-Bad’faction’ btl here. Some have very strong views about what the SNP is/isn’t doing but that does *not* prove complicity.
@ K1
Agreeing with all your sentiments. I used to find the threads so educational, now it’s either the trolls doing their thing, or streams of tedious mental masturbation.
I do bypass both, I don’t engage with the resident trolls, except to tell them to fuck off.
There is little left here that attracts or stimulates.
Mark from Independence live interviewing Mike Russell about Brexit et al. At -50:44 in from the left hand side of slide bar below vid.
https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/7790660
I know it’s not conducive to healthy debate and could lead to something of an echo chamber but, would an ignore function for BTL discussion be useful just now?
Perhaps it would help some posters to simply avoid each other for the time being instead of presenting division to the wider world and making us look like a bunch of squabbling kids.
Failing that, you could all try getting on and maybe stop entrenching yourselves in wee cliques and labeling each other as this, that and the other. 😉
Just a thought folks. 🙂 Not taking any sides.
I hear ya Macart…such is life 😉
————————–
Aye Valerie, much the same way myself, ergo not on so much and have to scroll past most of the thread, which does improve my mood greatly. 🙂 But agree too…can’t understand the anti Peffers brigade, one of Scotland’s son’s who has done much to foster and nurture Scotland’s self determination aspirations, treated like shit on here. Can’t stomach that at all.
I was out of the loop yesterday between one thing and another, such as having to work and not being able to get onto the Internet for hours on end. Was the SNP Conference shown on BBC? If not why not (Ms MacKinnon)?
I’ve now been searching on youtube but can’t find anything there either other than videos relating to the spring Conference (and that’s, the 3 hour one, distorted) and the current live show. Does anyone have anything relating to Nicola and John Swinney’s speeches etc?
The blatant bias in this country would absolutely scunner you. Type in Tory Conference on youtube and see what you get. A speech from absolutely everyone and their bl**dy granny.
…………………………………….
‘What will Honorary Colonel Davidson think as the SNP vote by a large majority to ban under-18s joining up?’
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/10/09/what-will-honorary-colonel-davidson-think-as-the-snp-vote-by-a-large-majority-to-ban-under-18s-joining-up/
…………………..
‘Stormy Monday: Wind generates 206% of Scotland’s energy needs in one day!’
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/10/07/stormy-monday-wind-generates-206-of-scotlands-energy-needs-in-one-day/
……………………
‘Nicola Sturgeon: We might need indyref2 before 2021 to escape Brexit disaster.’
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15585171.Nicola_Sturgeon__We_might_need_indyref2_before_2021_to_escape_Brexit_disaster/
She sure does!
https://stv.tv/news/politics/1399517-nicola-sturgeon-i-have-mandate-to-hold-indyref2-by-2021/
Ian, faction can be a loose grouping, the people don’t have to be complicit in any way, except generally holding the same views and/or feelings about a particular subject I suppose, which they feed off of? It’s just relentless at times, and I suppose Robert picks up on the underlying ‘theme’ which ‘amounts to’ SNP bad? Again it could be in the eye of the beholder but given the kicking he takes for challenging…ah surmise he’s close enough to the soft spot to be rounded on?
galamcennalath @ 14:25,
Haven’t read the Herald article you mention, but Michael Russell yesterday in his interview with Brewer did mention that he was going to be meeting Wee Willie Rennie to discuss a 2nd EURef.
Seeing if there’s any common ground to explore, I guess. The SNP do seem to be very serious about keeping the UK in the single market/customs union.
Also keeping a careful eye on the possibility of an EURef2. Because to go all out for a Section 30 Order then have the metaphorical rug pulled out from under you by an EURef2 would not be a good play, and the SNP are obviously aware of it.
Just goes to show just how fluid matters Brexit are at the moment.
Maybe the Brexiteers are lusting to crash out of talks with the EU27 precisely they fear that the longer it goes on, the more ordinary people will wake up to the car crash and demand the chance of a get-out.
A Tory palace coup at Westminster could go either way, or even end up passing the buck to Corbyn and letting him take all the blame.
me @ 16:27
“…precisely because they fear…”
ot, if there is one
EnglishScotsForYES? @EnglishScot4YES 4h4 hours ago
This absolute bullshit must be refuted.
We saw injured people covered in blood. With baton wounds.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6668/scots_nationalists_mired_in_confusion_over_catalonia
you’ll love this ken5000
you’ll love this ken50000
Catalans for Yes? @CatalansForYes 2h2 hours ago
Spanish PP’s spokesman; “President Puigdemont could end up like Companys [executed by Franco in 1940].”
I hope the BBC talk of the Catalan leaders putting independence on “hold” is propaganda. If the Catalan leaders bottle it after allowing voters to get their skulls broken for the cause then the leaders are finished and so is the Catalan independence movement. Why would they even contemplate such a thing when they are on the brink of achieving their goal?
schrodingers cat @ 16:40,
Oh dearie me, what a guddle of confusions and hypocrisy from Uncle Tam.
More pish from the big right-wing nation-state nationalist himsel.
This is an excellent and articulate piece by Joris Luyendijk, a Dutch man who lived in England for six years, about his understanding of the Brexit vote in England and the underlying class system that he feels plays a part in explaining the reasoning behind Leave.
How I learned to loathe England
https://archive.is/UrYIK
David McDowell says:
9 October, 2017 at 4:46 pm
“Why would they even contemplate such a thing when they are on the brink of achieving their goal?”
Maybe because they now know what happened on October 1st will seem like a picnic compared to what’s coming if they continue
Beeb gimps and Peers Morgan having a great time baiting their Scotland region, as yoons do do. BBC’s Scotland politics comedy mantra does seem to be, they’ll keep holding them til they win, so dont let them have anymore. So both very creepy and not funny, how very BBC gimpish:D
Piers Morgan?Verified account @piersmorgan 19m
Piers Morgan Retweeted HaveIGotNewsForYou
You nicked that joke from me, to Ms Sturgeon, on @GMB at 7.25am. Scoundrels.Piers Morgan added,
HaveIGotNewsForYouVerified account @haveigotnews
Nicola Sturgeon calls for Scotland’s game against Slovenia to be replayed until they get a result she’s happy with.
https://munguin.wordpress.com/
When you’ve lost any chance of winning using the Project Fear tactics, half truths and downright lies, all you have left is to play to the Yoons, SNP BAD at every opportunity, and to infiltrate the opposition and cause as much disruption and as many splits as poss.
And it’s working.
We’ll still win.
It is, and always has been since devo, inevitable.
Graeme at 4:53 pm
“Maybe because they now know what happened on October 1st will seem like a picnic compared to what’s coming if they continue”
Thanks for putting my point in very sharp focus. If the Catalan leaders say they’re putting independence on “hold” because of fear of what Rajoy’s sadistic thugs might do, then they most certainly are finished, and so is Catalan independence.
Just watched May’s statement in the House of Commons
in which the Tories have moved the goal posts in that they do not want to be part of EEA or EFTA, but now insisting a bespoke deal with the EU, thereby creating an unworkable goal which they no fine that the EU will reject and thereby giving the Tories the excuse to terminate their discussions.
The SNP and all opposition parties need to vote completely against the idiots and the SNP need to highlight how damaging the Tories are
K1 @ 4.52
I read that article from a Twitter prompt. It is excellent.
Another pile of meaningless, steaming bullshit from May on Brexit. Davis is sitting behind her and in every camera shot. He looks like death warmed up. Sitting stock still, eyes like slits through his numerous, swollen eye bags.
Bercow had to intervene on Ian Blackford to defend him, because f noise, and another MP broke protocol walking right across Ian.
Shocking and disgusting.
@Edward 5:13pm
It’s going to be a no-deal brexit.
I must admit to being disappointed by the eu response to the catalan situation.
I do understand it tho’
france, germany,holland, belgium, spain, italy (and the Fuk) are the big players in the eu, so the eu tows their line.
they are threatened by the catalan situation.
the eastern countries, slovenia, estonia and others are smaller having gone thro the disintegration of the cccp in the 80/90s. have less to lose so dont feel threatened.
if catalunia goes, the basques will follow, then galicia, then perpignan, then pau, then britanny, then alsace, then the flamans, then wallonia, then freisland, then bavaria, then sicily, then lombardy etc
GOOD
france, spain, germany (and the Fuk) etc are evolutionary throwbacks to an imperial past. good riddens to bad rubbish.
a new europe will emerge, a federal europe, one which an indy scotland can shape.
once indy.
1. the highland division to be remodeled as per the french 6DLB, a F.A.R type division (Rapid action force) this is a model all small nations can emulate and it would create the basis of an eu army.
2. we start forming military alliances with these newly emerged nations and with the smaller nordic and baltic countries. standardisation of weapons and munitions.
Madrid will try and crush catalunya, as westminster will try to do to scotland. they may succeed. but if they dont, we should put in place a means to ensure that they cant in the future and the eu can protect our rights. (and the catalans, basques etc.
at the moment, the eu, not only doesnt have the power to do this, it doesnt even have the balls to face up to madrid. This isnt a reason to ditch the eu, it is a reason to reform it. an indy scotland could lead this!
3. we push for an eu leader, an eu president, with the power and the balls to stand up against facists like rajoy and westminster
eu countries spend half what the usa does on armed forces but 4 x what russia does. we cant rely on the usa to fight our wars for us anymore.
time we stood up for what we believe in.
if it is worth anything, it is worth fighting for
PS. Robert, is this pro EU enough 4 you?
” Heedracker@ 0502 pm” . Considering that Cameron had 2 additional players on the field as regards the sept 14 ” match” ,( EBC & Tory newspaper barons), then 13 against 11 should indeed necessitate a ” replay”. Perhaps we should also request a ” Russian linesman” ( aka 1966).
schrodingers cat @ 15:46,
Well that is realism, since in a democracy you can ultimately only go where enough people agree to let you. And that is certainly our current difficulty.
But people have to be shown a possibility in the first place. Without some positive push to help things along, too much emphasis on waiting upon polls and focus groups can also eventually shade into defeatism, or at best a kicking the can a long way down the road in the hope of better times, sometime, mebbe. While in the meantime our everyday lives have to unfold within the very real consequences.
There is some reason to believe that whatever else was going on, a number of people simply didn’t turn out to vote SNP at the last UKGE because the SNP weren’t saying enough about independence. Instead all we got was a gush of empty negativity from the BritNats.
There’s a time for seeing how the wind is blowing, and a time for leading the way, taking fate by the scruff of the neck and inspiring people to follow.
Some people seem to think that competent managerialism on its own will be sufficient to win the (eventual) day, but for me (and many others, I dare say) that aspect on its own, while absolutely necessary, will never be enough to win.
The vacuous promise of a smidgen better devolution in a car-crashed Brexittanian Empire, for example, if that’s the best we can hope for, isn’t inspirational. Far from it.
I doubt very much that the Tories intend to leave the EU without any kind of deal though it may just be wishful thinking on their part that they can get a deal with the EU that does not include free movement of people or escape from the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
They want a deal alright that includes the other 3 freedoms, free movement of goods, services and capital. The first being important simply for trade in the UK in general though I thing the latter two are most important in their eyes due to their relevance to the City of London and a very large segment of UK GDP.
Right now they are stalling, frustrating the EU as much as they can, it’s part of their game plan and they will hold on until the end drip feeding concessions along the way.
Of course they know the damage that will be done to the UK and it’s economy if their is no deal. This is just their strategy, personally I would have expected nothing other than this from a Tory government.
The potential for another vote on Scottish Independence is also a big part of this and the UK government will want something from the EU that can hold off any increase in support for our Independence. They can but try!
I think they will find that their strategy has been flawed and it will be the EU that walks away without a deal with the UK desperately still holding out the begging bowl at the last minute pleading “please don’t abandon us” hahaha.
I see the state broadcaster did some conference live streaming this afternoon. Not sure why it may have been timed to start after Leanne Wood’s address, but I could hazard a guess.
If there is any coverage of that speech it’ll be well worth a watch. She was superb, didn’t miss her targets, and richly deserved the magnificent and warm ovation.
And tomorrow’s going to be even better…
@Valerie 5.15
Here’s the Bercow intervention
Twitter cut off the most ignorant bit, where this Tory completely &possibly intentional,disrespected Scotland’s voice !Ian Blackford
https://twitter.com/ITrustInSNP/status/917427847710601216
You can see what happened here
https://www.facebook.com/IanBlackfordMP/videos/1330671633721328/
So…Ruthie for FM huh ?
Har har…ma poor sides!
This was my response to that idea on Ruthie’s F/B page.
……….
Is this the Ruth Davidson Tory party which campaigned in 2016 and only won 31 seats, 24 of which were achieved by regional lists ?
If the 2016 Holyrood was fully FPTP (first past the post) the SNP majority would have been MASSIVE.
…………..
Constituency MSP’s. (Actual from 73 seats available).
SNP ……….59 seats. (80.82%)
Tory………….7 seats. (9.58%)
Lib dems …4. (5.48%)
Labour……..3. (4.01%)
……….
Projected MSP’s based on % of Constituency seats actually won.
SNP ………99.4 seats.
Tories………11.7 seats.
Lib dems…..6.74 seats.
Labour……….4.93 seats.
…………
So there you have an electoral reality.
If the Holyrood election was run on the same terms as a WM election, ie, First Past The Post, the SNP would have a MASSIVE lead of 88 seats over the tories.
Ruth Davidson flatters to deceive.
Not a snowballs chance in hell of EVER being FM of Scotland, that would require the tories being the biggest party.
That ain’t ever going to happen.
David McDowell says:
9 October, 2017 at 5:11 pm
Graeme at 4:53 pm
“Thanks for putting my point in very sharp focus. If the Catalan leaders say they’re putting independence on “hold” because of fear of what Rajoy’s sadistic thugs might do, then they most certainly are finished, and so is Catalan independence.”
Sorry Dave I wasn’t meaning to appear smart it’s just I feel the Catalonians could have been doing with some support from the EU and international community at large after the disgraceful actions of the Guardia Civil, but not as much as a wimper,
That’s a green light for Rajoy to do whatever he likes,
they must be feeling pretty alone and defenceless right now
Sorry this is very off topic.
I bet these guys all stand with their hand on their heart, and are allowed to travel the world at will.
http://archive.is/B29DE
@heraldnomore
I watched the whole of the SNP conference on BBC Parliament channel. The Tories hijacked it with a session about Brexit but I could continue to watch it on the red button.
It was upbeat and full of debate showing how a democratic Government really works.
Catalans were there and there was a update about the Catalonian Referendum and reports from those SNP MPs and MSPs that were there to oversee the voting.
I then watched some of Westminster’s debate. It was full of shouting, heckling and the usual stuff from Unionists. Ian Blackford left Conference early to travel down to Westminster to get his say in this Brexit discussion but when the Unionists shouted over everything he said I turned off sick to my stomach.
I want freedom for Scotland as much as anyone else on here I to have spent my whole life arguing for it and I know that only the SNP can deliver it but that does not mean that I have no right to critise them when I think they are not doing the right thing I do not wish to stand by and watch the SNP ship heading towards the rocks there is nothing wrong with honest critisism I it is the only way to change things
The EU is not threatened in anyway by Catalonian Independence.They realise like most people who have any knowledge of Catalonia the majority are against it. Many do not care. 40%+ support. The EU does not support illegal Referendum. Or interfering in member states internal matters. They support the majority. That is democracy. Those who support Independence in Catalonian are not the majority. In anyway shape or form. Over half of them didn’t even turn out. There are 1/2Million who do not have a vote?Some of these politicians could not even organise a brewery. They would drink the profits. Manana, manana.
In Scotland it is 50/50. Scotland has legal legitimate Referendums. The EU recognises that. Scotland got Devolution with EU support. Scotland has many friends in the EU who appreciate 62% voted to stay in if possible. Or have as close ties as possible. They also support legitimate Referendum when the majority make their choice. A free and fair vote.
schrodingers cat @ 17:25,
If it’s me to which your PS is addressed, yes, I can agree with much of that. As a possible future development it represents a real challenge to the EU as it currently exists, but it can’t fossilise its present arrangements for ever and a day. Adapt or die, I suppose.
That’s a long way from where we are here and now, of course. Most (all?) normal people have more immediate practical concerns to deal with, and (like it or not) don’t really want to spend very much time engaging even with ordinary politics. Hence the “electoral overload” that the BritNats exploited so cynically during the last UKGE. (Maybe even the real reason for the last UKGE? =grin=)
But how to wake people up to realities and convince them that independence is their best and safest hope for a secure and prosperous future? You would have thought that the current shambles of a Tory party once again tearing itself apart over Europe would be more than enough on its own.
Just like us, everyone is hanging on, I suppose, just waiting to see how things might pan out. We on here are getting a tad fractious about what’s coming down the line while they are instead coping by pretending it’s not happening. Don’t know what’s the better tactic right how!
But it does help for us all to stay on friendly terms with each other on here. Our differences are as nothing compared to the Tories (and probably Labour too).
A bunch of ‘psycho bastards’. They will get their comeuppance. May and the Tories will be gone before long. On borrowed time. Out of touch and out of time. Some people in Scotland voted for these bastards’. A total shambles what a mess.
Strachan is a bleeding heart conman. Patter man. ‘Genetically inferior’. What the heck.
Seriously Ken, get informed eh?
‘That Mythical Pro-Spanish Majority in Catalonia
The media constantly pumps out the lie that there is a silent anti-independence majority in Catalonia, which is merely curiously invisible.
Consider this. The highest turnout ever at an election in Catalonia was the 74.9% in the 2015 Regional Election, with 4,130.196 people casting their vote. At Spanish general elections turnout is even lower, at 69%. A minimum of 25.1% of the population never vote at all. Of that 25% who do not vote, some will be dead, or moved away, but most are probably just not civilly engaged.
The trick of the pro-Spanish lobby is to boycott polls on Independence, and then claim that this minimum 25% of the electorate who never vote at all anyway, are anti-Independence and participating in the boycott. In truth there are absolutely no grounds to attribute the minimum 25% habitual non-voters as anti-independence. Particularly the dead ones.
So in fact the 2,044,038 votes cast in favour of Independence on Sunday, that survived the police and could be counted, already amounted to 49.6% of the highest number of votes ever cast in any election in Catalonia. When you add in the hundreds of thousands of votes confiscated by the police, and the voters who were deterred by the terrible violence, there is no doubt whatsoever that Sunday’s referendum would have seen a healthy majority for Independence on any probable turnout figure.
So that is the answer on the “pro-Spanish silent majority”. Many of them are very silent indeed, being dead but still on the register. Most of the others have never voted in their lives. The trick of claiming all non-voters as No voters is, frankly, pathetic. It says a huge amount about the corruption of the corporate media, and in the UK especially the BBC, that they have been pumping out this ridiculous “silent majority” narrative without ever analysing the figures realistically.
Why is the pro-Spanish majority so silent? Because it is a fiction. The very existence of the pro-Independence majority in the Catalan parliament is evidence of that fact. At the Catalan parliamentary elections, pro-Independence parties got 48% and anti-Independence parties got 39%. The other 13% went to parties which are agnostic or divided on the issue. But your career in the mainstream media is dependent on failing to notice such inconvenient fact.’
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/10/mythical-pro-spanish-majority-catalonia/
Do no people ever travel in Europe. Spain/Catalonia etc?
The Independence supporting Parties in Catalonia do not have a majority in the Parliament Their support fell at the last elections. It is some kind of PR system. Too smaller Parties are more supportive of Independence. They need them for support. It is 48Independence 52. None. Some will not have voted. How many? They all squabble among themselves. That is how they have made the mess that they have. Dug a hole they will have to get out of. They don’t know how. The majority do not support it. A rejection. They are trying to claim as a victory. Just a load of nonsense.
Edward says:
Dan Huil says:
Alex Clark says:
Things are becoming clearer, I feel. It does look like single market, customs union, EFTA, EEA, just aren’t in the Tories plans.
What isn’t quite so clear is whether they want a crash out with no deal, or if they still fantasise about a bespoke cherry picking deal. Perhaps these two represent the two sides split within the Tories.
I think we all agree that if the Tories are after some special treatment on trade, the EU won’t customise the five aspects of the single market. Paradoxically, the crash and burn Brexiteers might be the more realistic of the two positions!
The other peculiar thing is the unwillingness on the UK’s part to be serious about Ireland or the divorce bill. If they did want to offer real concessions in order to win favour for a transition and/or a bespoke trade deal, those would be the areas to focus on.
So why won’t the Tories get serious about Ireland and the divorce bill? That, to me suggests they want to crash out with no deal.
Graeme at 6:00pm
Apology accepted! And I’m not trying to appear smart either.
The Catalan leaders encouraged people to vote. Many got their skull bashed in for their trouble. If I’d put my personal safety on the line and my leaders reneged on their promise to declare independence 48 hours after confirmation of the vote, I’d be very, very angry indeed. Wouldn’t you? Especially if the reason given was “fear of worse violence”. Bottling it on the finish line will only encourage the fascist Spanish bullies.
So apparently one of the options is for Catalonia to declar independence and then immediately suspend it.
Wow, I have absolutely no idea of the implications of that one, but it sounds like a very interesting idea.
K1 @ 18:24,
I fear you are wasting time trying to engage. He never does. Though I do generally try to read everything btl, these days I normally scroll past his
ramblingsunique contributions. Life’s too short!Great cartoon, as usual, by Chris Cairns. 🙂
Theresa May hanging up her true-blue Tory jacket, while wearing her Ukippish purple dress.
May’s eyes have bags, and her whole face emanates tiredness – I wonder why she bothers to stay on in the nightmare role of the PM who’s taking the UK out of Europe, while also knackering the UK economy. Is she a masochist who enjoys all the hate directed at her. (And that’s just from her own party…)
I mean, the May household is rich. Very rich. She doesn’t need the hassle. It must have been ok while she was in charge of the Home Office. Back then she could pursue easy targets that couldn’t fight back, like immigrants, and the disabled.
Now, though, everyone is out to get Theresa. Her fellow Tories are queueing up to metaphorically stab her in the back; SNP & Corbyn get stuck into her at PMQs; and her BluTack supplier just sold her a dodgy batch.
Theresa, why not just leave now, and let Boris or, god forbid, Gove take control of the Tory Brexit debacle. Be a rebel, say you campaigned for Remain and truly meant it, and quit. Go home and count your money.
P.S. Anyone else think May’s clothing style is a bit punk, a bit rebellious? I’ve thought it seems a bit out of place in the Tory party, all those chunky, punky necklaces and wristbands, the leopardprint shoes, even the leather breeks. It speaks of someone who wants to break out of the mould, to be different – but sadly for us most of her political choices are from the identikit rightwing Tory mould.
Ken500
It not just the BBC that manipulate the news.Yesterday during the pro Spain rally four people were interviewed giving it a load of anti indepedence mince. They then went to Buchanan st in Glasgow and interviewed another four people, three Scots and one English guy and all were anti Scottish independence.
Westminster may not be using special police with clubs but they are battering us just the same.
Steve Peers Professor of EU, Human Rights & World Trade Law, University of Essex highlights parts of the Brexit papers released by the shambles gov
https://twitter.com/StevePeers?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preparing-for-our-future-uk-trade-policy
Yes Robert J, agreed, aw the same have to proffer the counter view when available, if only for the casual reader 🙂
That idea of Catalonian UDI followed by suspension has shades of 1707 when the Scottish Parliament was adjourned, dissolved only by royal proclamation before 1st May for legal reasons (the Union couldn’t have come into being without that), and then reconvened in 1999 by our very own Winnie Ewing. The difference is that Catalonia’s would be current day, and very likely set a buzz amongst constitutional experts all over the world.
My gut feeling is that it’s a good move.
Evening all ~
A musical interlude if aye may share with you, enjoy.
“Ye don’t need no Mystic Meg tae shake the shoogly PM peg…”
Ye just need the Natural Mystic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWoDSGfSu6o
Love the build.
Be strong People of Catalonia.
Scotland.
K1 ! Hard to believe any democratic country would count deceased persons still on the electoral roll as a NO! It’s strange on how the same old propaganda is used over the years and probably the millennia. At least the Catalonia deid are only being used to manufacture a paper Unionist Majority, oor deid were actually counted as No in the 1979 Referendum.
Re Brexit, is it possible that the Tories are that delusional that they believe that the EU will come crawling to them if they play hardball? think we will find that the EU are neither as desperate or stupid as the Brexiteers.
I am confused, or maybe not very bright.
The contributors to this blog seem to, be in the main, in favour of an independent Scotland, just as soon as possible.
So whats all this about the SNP?
The only political party in Scotland which will create an environment in which the Scottish people can achieve independence is the SNP. All the other parties oppose any form of self determination by the people of Scotland.
So it doesn’t seem difficult to me to understand that until independence is achieved the only party to back, 1,2 and 3 is the SNP. The details of this or that policy are irrelevant to the objective, which is independence.
We can get on with arguing among ourselves about the colour of a subsequent government when we have one. Meantime, do we really prefer the policies of a government elected by the votes of the electorate of another country.
So I don’t get it.
Secondly, I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for the Tories to throw out May. Not because there are not a number of Tories who think they could do a better job of screwing up the governance of whatever we currently call these islands.
But, because, in the middle of the cabinet table, there is an enormous steaming turd, with a little union flag sticking out of it with brexit writ large on it.
I therefore doubt that there really is a queue of aspirants for May’s job just at the moment. They will let her take the blame, all the blame, which is ironic since prior to her conversion of convenience she was a Remainer.
Of course. she may drop them in it by resigning.
Westminster are facists, That’s where the facists are. Concentrate on them.
Mass called a snap GE on 11 Sept 2012 which resulted in a pro Independence majority for the first time in the region’s history. Mas called an election on Seot 2015. Pro Independence fell short by a majority of votes although they won a majority of seats. These decisions are all on a 30% + turnout. Claimed as great victories. 60/70 are not voting, That’s how much they care about it. That is not Democracy. Most Spanish (Catalonian) people – voters. They totally do not appreciate Spanish (Catalonian) politicans. They can’t stand them. They are so corrupt. They despise them with a passion and do not trust them or believe them at all. The lot of them. That could be the reason for the low turnout.
galamcennalath @ 18:37,
Couldn’t agree more.
The NI question is the fundamental sticking point, I believe. The Tories’ DUP chums want Brexit, and maybe don’t even mind a hard NI border either, which the Irish Republic, as signatory and co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement, and thus the EU in turn, can’t possibly accept.
If the Tory government sells out NI to get an agreement, the DUP will vote them down. NI politics have been imported to the UK wholesale!
Now what was that we heard from the BritNats back in 2015 about “the tail wagging the dog”, referring of course to the “disloyal” SNP?
Robert Peffers,
“Catalonia is an autonomous region of Spain. Scotland is far from being anywhere near as autonomous as Catalonia.”
But aren’t the Scots, unlike the Catalonians, “sovereign”?
How can “sovereign” Scotland be “far from being anywhere near as autonomous as Catalonia”?
Sickening in ’79, though I was not eligible to vote then, since realised over the years what went down, so not in the least surprised, the same tactics are used repeatedly. Goebbels et al would be so proud of his/their legacy.
As for May and the Dummies, that band’s got a few more tunes left before anyone would take the poison chalice from the front wumin’ and yes Lenny, they are ‘that’ delusional’, trouble is hauf o’ England are on the Titanic wi them…Brex dancin’ while the ship sinks. The EU must be laughin’ at the display of hubris on show wi this lot.
We need out soon. Real soon.
How about upgrading the electoral role or is that too much of an effort for these chancers. Or are they getting away with murder. It is the Catalonian authority responsibility to keep up the electoral role. Can they not even manage that? Surprise, surprise. Manana, manana. Do not see how died people are being counted as a NO. They are being counted as a NO show. 1/2Million do not get a vote. Exactly how does Murray know how many dead are on the electorale role. Has he studied it? 5.5Million out of 6million electorate. Does look like any dead folk are on. 1/2Million live folk are off of it. The numbers he is peddling is fantasy. Making it up.
@galamcennalath
I also believe that there will be no deal simply because the Tories really do believe as Boris Johnson said that they can “have their cake and eat it”. Then they are simply wrong.
I can’t see the EU negotiators breaking down and sacrificing the entire idea of the EU and the principles of it to let the UK cherry pick the parts they want to remain with. The EU itself will collapse if this was to happen and they know it.
Make no mistake for the UK this is a disaster heading our way, I’m certain of that. Inflation up, wages down, unemployment up more benefit cuts and further austerity. For the ordinary person this is no joke but few are listening and the media are hopeless.
The Tories however are but the mouthpiece of their backers, big business such as BAE and the Banks, they will be demanding a deal but know that this negotiating strategy has to be played out. I’m sure there are all kinds of giant brains in the UK pouring over this right now probing for weakness in the EU position. The negotiators might be a bit dim but all their advisers surely can’t be?
There are no weaknesses in the EU position and I doubt the UK will find one though that will help them achieve their goals. The EU itself has too much to lose by being seen to give in to UK demands. That’s why I believe this will go to the wire and either the UK will accept EU terms or the EU will walk away.
On another topic but still on the EU. I’m really pissed of with the EU response to the situation right now between Catalonia and Spain where they have totally sided with Spain. I did not expect that and they could have done a thousand times better for the sake of peace in Spain and even the EU if anything.
The EU’s number one criteria for a new member joining is:
stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities
https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/conditions-membership_en
Well they certainly appear to me to have failed on all four of these issues. The EU it seems can also be hypocritical when it suits them, I say that as a supporter of the EU in principle.
Right now though it is being lead by the right wing parties of Europe and that’s why they have kept their mouths shut over Catalonia. Rajoy is one of their own.
I get your point Dave and I do understand what you’re saying and I agree with you but the 48 hour deadline is long past and as far as I know they still haven’t declared independence,
Which suggests to me they’re having a re-think because they now know they can expect no help from the EU or the international community at large and they can’t win this without outside help or support
They’re on their own and Rajoy will stop at nothing to keep them, so they got a kicking and beaten up with batons, next time it could be bullets. they have to consider that it’s a big decision I’m just glad I’m not the one having to make it
lest we forget
https://archive.org/details/catalonia_201710
Robert J. Sutherland says:
I do wonder about that. They are fans of the 1950s it seems.
As you say, the EU won’t have it!
The DUP/Tories will break the power sharing in NI. It will bring them down, The DUP are on a sticky wicket. If they break down the power sharing agreement. The majority in NI will vote them out. The majority resent rule from Westminster. It could finish off the DUP. The bribe is only on condition the power sharing agreement is reinstated. They probably will not see most of it. May wil be gone before long. The Tories can’t go on. A limited majority. They could have been taken down already. If the other Party members voted as they were told. They would not have passed the EVEL vote. They would have lost be four votes. Caroline Flint and co voted with them. That person who always gets it wrong. Look after her own interests before those who are struggling. Hard as nails.
If Sinn Fein turned up now and again. It would be great to bring them down. Even on only major strategic votes. That would be great. To see the baying, insulting rude Tory vacant coupons. Jeering like animals. No insult to animals. Pigs have more manners. Sheep ba less and are more mindful. They are a disgusting group of people.
NB: Just a point of order. I might be right and I may be a meringue, but from what I’ve picked up thru the ages… the odd line or two of verse on a main thread is ok later in thread, but if you’re gonna write whole script.. that’s why this link below was created…
Whole poetry is for off-topic:
https://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/
You will always find William Wallace there.
Hi Petra says at 4:14 pm.
You typed,
“Does anyone have anything relating to Nicola and John Swinney’s speeches etc?”
Check out the stuff at the left of the page at this link:-
https://www.pscp.tv/theSNP/1dRKZndYNawKB
Ken500, do you realise that when you support the Spanish against the Catalans, you are siding with actual fascists?
The fascists whose supporters are doing Hitler salutes left right and centre?
The fascists whose police goons were enthusiastically hitting voters on their heads?
You are supporting the wrong side in this conflict.
Nicola’s speech tomorrow at 2pm BBC 2
Petra says:
8 October, 2017 at 11:36 pm
“I posted on here earlier but it still hasn’t appeared. Breaking it up to see if that makes a difference.”
Petra says:
8 October, 2017 at 11:39 pm
“I posted on here earlier but it still hasn’t appeared. Breaking it up to see if that makes a difference.”
Petra says:
9 October, 2017 at 12:55 am
“Well I’ve tried to post this on numerous occasions tonight, to no avail.”
The likes of you have no respect at all for the owner of this blog:
Rev. Stuart Campbell says (to Petra):
6 October, 2017 at 11:09 am
(“Have I Got Evasion For You”)
“I’m going to say this one last time and then, with the very greatest of reluctance, I’m going to ban you for NOT FUCKING LISTENING.
DO.
NOT.
POST.
THE.
SAME.
COMMENT.
REPEATEDLY.
If it falls foul of the filters the first time you try, THE SAME FUCKING THING WILL HAPPEN EVERY OTHER TIME. OBVIOUSLY. The filters don’t change from one comment to the next. All you do is create a giant mess for me to clean up behind the scenes. You do it over and over again. I don’t know how many times I have to say it.
Sometimes I have to go out. Sometimes I’m just taking a break for a few hours. When I get back, I’ll check the comments needing approval and your comment will be approved. That’s how it works. That’s how it’s always worked. That’s how it will continue to work. Everyone else manages to follow the rules.
Your posts are enormously long, and when I get in and find 20 of them in the approval queue, all several screens high, I have to scroll endlessly up and down trying to work out which ones are new and which ones are the same ones posted five times in a row. It’s UNBELIEVABLY tedious and time-consuming and soul-destroying and I’ve FUCKING WELL TOLD EVERYONE NOT TO DO IT A HUNDRED TIMES.
Do not do it again. We clear?”
What do we make of this approval rating poll, is Corbyn really more popular in Scotland than Sturgeon?
https://mobile.twitter.com/MomentumGlasgow/status/916796650726854656/photo/1
Nana @ 5.49 pm
Thank you for the links to Mr Ian Blackford speaking for Scotland on Brexit in Westminster. He spoke well =)
Our SNP MPs DO speak loudly and clearly for Scotland.
But the utter disrespect and contempt shown by ‘colleagues’ across the chamber is beneath disgraceful.
On a personal level, what nasty twisted people they are. That vile attitude will go with them wherever they go in life. I pity the folk who ever come within their sphere.
The Brenglish Prime Minister’s reply is exactly why Scotland should be Independent.
Well done Ian Blackford for speaking for Scotland in the face of all that nonsense.
Very panicky C4 teatime news wind up there with Jon Snow and Jon Snow 2.0, at the SNP conference.
Hard to know what they were trying to Project Fear their Scots viewer with more tonight, Catalonia, YES polls no change for 3 years, EU wont help any vile seps anywhere, lots of other EU members have vile sep Scottish style separatists too, so they really are dazed and confused and stuffed, our separatists Jon, arent they?
I’d love to ask old English tories like these guys, why they are actually so afraid of England becoming England again.
Probably because they really weally wuv us Scotland:D
Apart from Ken500 and the Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex?)girlfriend, is there anyone else posting here who is in favour of the ‘First past the post’ voting system?
I am totally against it.
Rock
You really are a right wee clype.
I Love Scotland.
I Love Wings Over Scotland.
@Ghillie –
‘clype’
🙂 🙂 🙂
Am so enjoying following the SNP Conference 🙂
Intellegent and respectful debate. Impressed and proud.
Thank you folks for posting all the useful links =)
How can May these disgusting people allow her colleagues to behave like that when people are speaking. She is a complete arse. She needs to go soon for the sake of people’s sanity and even more deaths.
Rock, you demean yourself with your 7:30pm post.
Who cares you little naff.Feck off.
One person many people would live to meet up with is Rock. So representative of a local lodge. No doubt an enterprising musician.
Must be really disappointed in the Conference. So sussessful. Wonder what area it comes from. With the trouser leg up and the apron on. Or is that a secret.
Hi Rock.
I know you have a penchant for pasting, into your own posts, the comments of other contributors to this blog but, really, why do you feel the need to paste the comments of Rev Stu into your own comments?
Are you hoping that some of his talent will rub off on you?
Grow up, iye?
Andy-B says:
9 October, 2017 at 7:34 pm
What do we make of this approval rating poll, is Corbyn really more popular in Scotland than Sturgeon?
https://mobile.twitter.com/MomentumGlasgow/status/916796650726854656/photo/1
……………..
Given the track record of Momentum – remember that video on the train service in Scotland – I would treat anything they produce with a pinch of salt.
It must have been this ‘poll’ that was referred to in Ch4 news item tonight from the SNP Conference – at least I think it was that one.
@ken 500.
I have no beef with you, but what purpose does it serve Scottish independence chances to constantly hate Catalonia ?
We get it, you do not like them.
Time to drop the subject surely ?
I do not conflate Scotland’s position with Catalonia’s either, they ARE completely different.
Does not need repeated as nauseum .
Very interesting article on a survey by the National Centre for Social Research on the “brexit cake” from earlier this year.
http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-brits-want-to-have-cake-and-eat-it/
Most leavers are totally without a clue it would seem 🙁
SHAZBOT!
I’ve just realised that I have fallen for Rock’s latest trick to derail a thread.
Mea Culpa…
Ad nauseam…even…!!
I like Ian Dunts writing on Brexit. He really knows his stuff.
Here he is ripping apart Mays gibberish from this afternoon.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/10/09/may-s-nonsense-on-brexit-conceals-a-cynical-strategy
Graeme at 7:14pm
“the 48 hour deadline is long past”
The Catalan leaders’ promise was to declare independence “48 hours after confirmation of the vote”. “Confirmation” meant the votes being counted and the final figures officially announced. That took place on Friday (Oct 6). So, 48 hours after that would have been sometime on Monday (Oct 9).
The Catalan president called a meeting of the parliament for Monday. However this was suspended by a Spanish court. So the meeting was moved to tomorrow, Tuesday, Oct 10). So that is the first practical opportunity for the Catalan leaders to keep their promise, if that’s what they intend to do.
So, while it might be correct to say “the 48 hour deadline is past” it isn’t right to say it’s “long past”. It’s only 24 hours past the point which the Catalan leaders originally planned, not knowing of course that the first meeting would be legally suspended by Spain.
You’re also right that “they still haven’t declared independence” but since the first practical opportunity to declare independence after confirmation of votes is tomorrow, I don’t think the leaders can be fairly criticised for taking 24 hours longer.
My original post was about the BBC claiming the Catalan leaders would put independence on “hold” when they meet tomorrow (Tuesday). I would be critical of the Catalan leadership if they did that, for the reasons I gave earlier.
You say you agree with those reasons, whilst at the same time appearing to agree they are right to have “a re-think” because of the possibility that people might be shot with “bullets”.
My view is, if they were worried about being shot with bullets, they should never have called the referendum in the first place, or invited people to go out and vote in it.
As you say, it is a big decision, and not one to bluff about if there is no intention of taking it all the way, regardless of how much support you have or the possibility of “bullets”.
The reason is that backing down now will lead to a catastrophic collapse of their credibility as leaders. The very idea of Catalan independence would inevitably follow it, as who would ever take them seriously after such a capitulation?
If that was always their “plan”, it was a very, very ill-advised plan indeed.
@Ken 500
I lived and worked in Spain for 12 years Ken, I speak and understand the languages very well but I’m afraid your version of events and politics in that country are not those I recognise
Your version is straight out of some Trumpian Tory handbook of makey uppy facts for the bewildered to swallow
So wherever you’re getting this stuff from I can tell you it’s not the people
Good manners precluded me from entering into discussions on politics when I lived there (not my country) but I have good friends who are natives of that country and they don’t discuss or argue their points with as much venom as you seem to have for the position you hold which leads me to wonder why you are so anti one party and pro the other when you yourself are neither resident or to my knowledge have ever been resident
Understand I am not condemning anyone having a view of events but it’s a bit like an Englishman who’s never been to Scotland pontificating on our internal politics with only the Daily Mail to back up his information
Now wouldn’t that offend you
@BDTT –
‘shazbot’
?
Is that a thing or did you just make it up?
@Legerwood
The momentum video turned out to be a true representation of the reality on that train. That is if your talking of the Virgin train which was from London to Newcastle and not to Scotland.
Anyway after numerous FYI requests, 265 days later the truth was out.
Mendez said the footage should have been “presented in full to the public”.
“It took Virgin Trains 7 days to deliver selective footage and misleading photos to the media and just under 7 months to deliver it to me in 3 separate instalments. I can’t speak for Virgin Trains as to why that was the case,” Mendez told HuffPost.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/traingate-cctv-virgin-trains-jeremy-corbyn_uk_59a00509e4b0821444c29596
No arguments from me there Dave you put your point over far more eloquently than I can and I don’t disagree with you for the most part
I just hope this doesn’t end in bloodshed and if it doesn’t it will be no thanks to the EU
All Catalonia and Spanish are not Facists. A few nut cases do not make a population. Probably an extremely small minority. An embarrassment. Just like here. Do people giving Nazi salutes characterise the Scottish society, They are totally despised by the majority of people everywhere over the whole world.
I am not supporting anyone in Catalonia. Have been sick of hearing about Catalonia (Spain) for months. The point is to point out the dissimilarities there are between the two situation. Being impartial not going with the major hysteria, because it could be used to damage the Scottish Independence movement. Much as Catalonia (Spain) is a great place, Independence is much more important here. It is their affair let them deal with it.
Everything that happens in Catalonia (Spain) are compared as happening here. When that is not the case. Let every country place, deal with their Democratic stance. To call Spain facist is just a joke. Totally. It is an insult to the Spanish people. In Catalonia and elsewhere. They embrace Democracy in 1978 and are extremely enthusiastic about it. They do what they like. They are so laid back they would fall over. They could do with some regulation. Especially their antiquated Laws. Timekeeping etc. That happens all over Spain.
The Police are brutal all over Spain. Maybe the criticism will bring change but don’t hold your breathe. The Police are brutal in the U.K. . Kettling people and stopping legitimate protest. That doesn’t excuse it but it is more possible to do something about here. Not in Spain. They make their choice. So should we. If there is a fair and free Referendum. It must be fair and free. Not manipulated on any side by any politicians.
So it begins, beeb gimp network softens up teamGB for the toryboy hard Brexit crashing out of the EU. So that’s why they were doing fuck all negotiation wise. Duh.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41546701
Theresa May sets out Brexit options including ‘no deal’
46 minutes ago
From the section UK Politics 4468 comments in 45 mins too.
Lol, sorry for laughing, but to be honest I don’t read all the posts on here and I don’t even read full posts, I sort of skim them to see what catches my eye, and on skimming Rocks I thought OMG he has got the Rev down to a tee, that is what I would expect him to say exactly word for word, and then on a second re-skim it dawned on me, it was the Rev.
My bad. Sorry again, but I am laughing more at myself if that makes sense.
Facebook beeb gimps are funny too. They focus totally on England and the toryboys ofcourse but they’ve given the Green’s conference far more heat than the SNP one.
Hope you were sitting down for that shock beeb gimp network revelation:D
BBC Politics
10 hrs ·
The Greens “will be the most influential” party in 21st Century politics, co-leader Jonathan Bartley will tell the party’s conference.
There’s still time to help out Inform Scotland if you can.
https://www.gofundme.com/battleBBCbias
@One_Scot “My bad. Sorry again, but I am laughing more at myself if that makes sense.”
Best kind of humour One_Scot, luckily for me I have the full support of my wife in that venture.
Brexit catastrofuck unfolds, as not told by tory beeb gimp network.
https://europaunited.eu/2017/10/09/irish-revenue-says-open-border-post-brexit-is-impossible/
Douglas Ross the Tory hero of the red trousered Moray electorate,
still giving the travellers and gypsies a hard time in the manky mother of all parliaments,
if you don`t have a brown lab a wax jacket a flat cap and a range rover you basically should not live in Moray.
Y’know…Owen Jones is full of crap, on the one hand he writes his latest piece about the right wing press and the clear bias and propaganda they perpetuate, and on the other he literally takes his news and all manner of attitudes about Scotland and the SNP from those same pundits and pish talking merchants.
What is actually wrong with these people?
Someone should twitter him about his own hypocrisy and his inability to apply the exact same scrutiny to the coverage of Scotland and its political dynamics by those same ‘moguls’ that he cites in his latest offering.
Got to say I agree fully with what moonlight posted at 6.58pm. I’ve enjoyed WoS since 2014 mainly for the sharp acerbic debunking of the unionist lies but also for the informative btl comments…lately however, I find it’s becoming more and more a place where the same posters seem to have an ego agenda rather than an independence agenda and it is a bit tiresome having to scroll through reams and reams of gibberish to unearth a few gems.
As for those who seem to only criticise the SNP for whatever trivial policy detail takes their fancy who the hell do you think will get us to independence? My priority is independence first last and always. Basically if you want independence and you vote for anyone other than the SNP then you are wasting your time. You can always vote for whatever party grabs your fancy AFTER independence but until then the SNP and only the SNP will do – if you’re serious about independence that is, and not in it to disappear up your own orifice with arcane drivel.
Graeme at 8:15pm
“I just hope this doesn’t end in bloodshed and if it doesn’t it will be no thanks to the EU”
We can certainly agree on that!.
Tomorrow we will see if the Catalan leaders “put independence on hold”, meaning they were bluffing all along. If that is the outcome, I will regard it as unforgivable strategic incompetence on their part.
People will have suffered injuries, some life-changing, the Catalan leaders will have lost all credibility, and the cause of Catalan independence itself will have been seriously holed below the waterline, and all for what?
What is actually wrong with these people?
He’s a tory. Jones is the UK high tory mirror image of the author of this blog. If you go right, you can make stacks of cash and get famous in teamGB. If not…
In effect, Jones is England’s toryboy lefty Bring out the Gimp, gimp. Harmless, a fake but necessary to keep up tory sham democracy.
@Ronnie Anderson –
Did you go to ‘George’ Square then?
Sorry if I missed you, but I had to stay in all day…
;(
@Ian Brotherhood
SHAZBOT!
Mork n’ Mindy wuzn’t it?
Alex Clark 8.08 pm
No I was not referring to Jeremy Corbyn’s run in with Virgin Trains. I specifically said ‘in Scotland’. The video was created by TSSA, I think, but Momentum circulated it
It was this video from August this year.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15490809.Momentum_slammed_after_sharing__bordering_on_xenophobic__anti_SNP_video/
@K1 –
Couldn’t agree more about yon Jones.
I’d happily listen to him wittering on all day about this, that or whatever else. Kind of like having an intelligent budgie.
But as soon as anyone mentions Scotland? he turns into an overbearing fud. In a way he’s even more irritating than proper Eton toffs who treat us as serfs because he thinks he’s properly right-on.
Graeme @ 20:15,
“I just hope this doesn’t end in bloodshed, and if it doesn’t it will be thanks to the EU”
Fixed that for you.
Since it is by far the more likely scenario.
Even though it’s indisputable that up till now (in public at least) the responses of representatives of the EU – and even more so of national governments, don’t forget – have been lamentable. Among the latter, Irish Taoiseach Varadkar must take the prize for arrant hypocrisy, given his own country’s history.
Some independence movements are more equal that others, it seems. But that’s realpolitik for you.
In the end we can sympathise with Catalonia’s position and wish them well while also realising that our position and self-interest, while similar, are not identical.
How much better would it not have been if we had chosen differently three years ago and Scotland was now a member of the EU in its own right? We could have spoken up on Catalonia’s behalf and shamed the others.
How ironic would it not be if they still get there first and do the same for us?
NTS reply to my cancelling my subscription over the offensive Oliver becoming its President. Why didn’t all members get a vote?
Thank you for your email. The National Trust for Scotland is a politically neutral charity and has no interest in any individual’s political views.
Our job is to protect the wonderful places in our care and share and celebrate Scotland’s amazing history and spectacular scenery with as many people as we can.
The role of President is largely an ambassadorial one, supporting our fundraising and engagement activities and spreading the word about our work generally, so in looking for a new person to take on this role the Trust was looking for someone who could help us take that message to even more people.
Neil Oliver has done a fantastic job in promoting the heritage, history and archaeology of Scotland and that clearly chimes with our objectives as a charity. These are the skills and qualifications which led to his nomination and appointment.
I have cancelled your membership as per your request, however no refunds can be offered as per our terms and conditions.
Regards,
Xxxxxxxxxx Customer Service Executive
the National Trust for Scotland
My inclusion-
The previous presidents- just prove how apolitical NTS are
* 8th Duke of Atholl, 1931- 1942
* Sir John Stirling Maxwell, 1944 – 1956
* There was no President of the NTS between 1956 and 1967, although there were elected Vice-Presidents, including Admiral Sir Angus Cunninghame Graham, KBE, CB; E Ivory; J F A Gibson
* 12th Earl of Wemyss and March, 1967 – 1991
* 6th Marquess of Bute, 1991 – 1993
* 10th Duke of Atholl, 1994 – 1995
* 13th Earl of Airlie, 1997 – 2002
* Earl of Dalkeith (later Duke of Buccleuch and Queensberry), 2002 – 2012
* Jamie, Earl of Lindsay, 2012 – 2017
* A Tory tv presenter, 2018 –
No more bailouts to the nts
I. LOVE. SCOTLAND!
@Macart –
Aha.
I never did see that programme because it was on at the same time as something else.
;(
@Cactus –
Blimey! I forgot!
😉
All the best to ye Hamish100, NHF’s, cheers.
I just hope that the Catalan leaders do what is best for the Catalan people. If anyone is at fault here then I have to point the fingur at the EU.
They have it within their power to defuse this situation and mediate to ensure negotiations before things escalate any further.
The only fair outcome in my eyes is that a free and fair referendum on Independence for Catalonia be held under the jurisdiction of the EU and EU observers. Sadly I very much doubt this will happen and so things can only get worse from here on.
Somebody needs to step in as it is clear that all of Catalonia is being denied democracy and that a minority people as part of Spain are being repressed. Something that the EU is clearly against according to it’s charters yet it refuses to intervene to prevent what may result in serious bloodshed.
I hope all parties see sense and soon.
Spot on Ian Bro.
Instinct was your first at 9pm!
We are the 3 amigos 😉 😉 🙂
It has nothing to do with the EU. That did not tell some Catalonian politicians to have two illegal Ref. Both of which they did not win. On a 30/40% turnout. Call snap elections to try and make political capital which ultimately failed. Can they not count. Are they so clueless. They can’t claim it is a great victory. All the signs and results were there but they just kept on going on sure a low turnout. Without the majority support. It is entirely these politicians fault. It has nothing to do with the EU. They do not interfere in country internal affairs. It is a mainly a trade organisation for better rights. To prevent war and starvation after the war. The do not support illegal Ref or non legitimate votes. What do folk expect them to do enforce a decision against the majority wishes on a campaign they did not promote. That is facist.
heedtracker @ 20:35,
Not so much a car crash then, Brexit, more a giant lorry pile-up…!
I have always felt rightly or wrongly that treeza and company have been monitoring Nicola’s moves and thoughts , hence dragging their feet in the EU negotiations and asking for the unworkable conditions , and in an effort to FORCE Nicola’s hand as well as THINKING they will cement their unassailable lead in the polls treeza called the snap GE ( thankfully their reading of the situation was jackie baillie )
I like many others have been feeling frustrated and impatient with Nicola’s stance of wait and see ,Buuuttt on reflection it appears that it is working , albeit slowly slowly catchee monkey and build up votes , treeza and company are slowly finding out that boris’s cake and eat it scenario is turning into stale , maggot riven months old bread with a very bitter taste with NO icing .
Having said all that I would like Nicola and any and all officials being interviewed at any time to state constantly that categorically and unequivocally the people of Scotland are sovereign and that THEY will decide Scotland’s future
It would also be better if ministers stuck to the official line instead of touting their own beliefs e.g. referendum maybe being held off until 2020/21 this only undermines and creates division , they should stick to a stock response ” Nicola and the Scottish government will decide when is the best time for our referendum ”
EU ,EFTA,EEA are all just diversions INDEPENDENCE IS THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN HOLD THE LINE
Neil Oliver has done a fantastic job in promoting the heritage, history and archaeology of Scotland and that clearly chimes with our objectives as a charity. These are the skills and qualifications which led to his nomination and appointment.
Wow! How’s that for a big fat tory unionist lie.
He’s got that job because he’s proved his tory loyalty and he’s going to use his new status as NT Pres to monster Scots ref2.
“National Trust President for Scotland Sir Neil Oliver today made an important and vital intervention to the Scottish referendum debate, describing it as a cancer…, wur British explained Sir Neil…”
Beeb gimpery writes itself:D
@Legerwood
Thanks for the clarification, the other incident I’m sure you’ll agree was much more well known and that’s why I asked which incident you were talking about.
The link you have provided now makes this clear so Ta.
Hi Ian Brotherhood at 8:06.
You typed,
“@BDTT – ‘shazbot’?
Is that a thing or did you just make it up?”
I WISH that peeps wouldn’t use Facebook and Twitter protocols on a pure text blog. For example, “@!
But that’s just me – I’m a pedant.
https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/home/badge-designs/ProudPedant-crop.jpg
“SHAZBOT!” was Mork’s swearie word.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qr6MoL-gpg
Not so much a car crash then, Brexit, more a giant lorry pile-up…!
Yes, its likely that the European timeline ahead does include, Catalonia becoming a European country, like say its neighbour Andorra, Ireland becomes reunified, and ofcourse the nation state of Scotland is reborn.
The last two all because of an internecine power struggle between English shire tories and old Etonian upper class twits, in conjunction with their swivel eyed loony press and beeb.
Oor Nic was very hard hitting on future PM Bojo tonight, on C4 teatime news.
Wouldn’t want to get on her bad side either.
@ Ken500
Wtf are you on???
You are sick of hearing about Catalonia? How many bloody times have YOU posted about it today, and I posted to draw attention to your highly inflammatory, misinformed post from this morning.
Do you have an ability to be self aware?
Try reading that latest post back again, instead of vomiting onto the screen.
‘Spain is not fascist… you are insulting the Spanish etc’
THEN….Spanish police are brutal everywhere.
We get it, Ken. Turn the other cheek, forget people’s lawful Rights not to be beaten in the street, or fingers broken, for trying to vote.
STFU Wingers, this is none of your business. Get back in your box. Take no notice, nothing to see.
You really are being offensive, Ken, and going out of your way to do it.
Macart
Nanu Nanu
Scot finlayson. 8.39. Aye they come to moray and impose their right wing tory politics on us. Here’s a thought! Why dont they go and emigrate to norn irn,and impose their right wing ideology on the nationalist community there?. Didn’t think so,they wouldn’t be quite as accommodating or as welcoming as us.
Valerie @ 21:17,
He seems to be suffering from a wee bout of cognitive dissonance there, Val.
There’s a lot of it around. (Maybe it’s catching. =shudder=)
Blimey…
By the time this thread’s done a lot of us will be hobbling and covered in elastoplasts.
🙁
Have an excellent time tomorrow Nicola and the cool SNP people.
When did YOU last visit off-topic?
Oh what’s that you say.
Go looky…
I don’t know anything about Moray apart from it being quite well-known as a happy hunting ground for people like me who have a thing about fossilised fish.
Seems they may well be the most interesting things there.
Alex Clark,
“I’m really pissed of with the EU response to the situation right now between Catalonia and Spain where they have totally sided with Spain. I did not expect that and they could have done a thousand times better for the sake of peace in Spain and even the EU if anything.”
Robert Peffers (7th April – “Unionist Manifesto Update”):
“Just let them try and NOT respect the results. The EU and UN would be on it like a flash as the Westminster Government has signed up to both of their treaties that specifically have written into them the human right of Self Determination.”
Rock,
“I can say with 100% confidence that the EU and UN would do absolutely nothing that would make us independent in such a scenario.
The unionists would boycott a referendum held without a section 30 order and we would almost certainly not get 50%+1 of the eligible electorate to vote Yes.
No one in their right mind wants to end up in such a scenario.”
“Numpties” claiming that the EU and UN would rush to defend Scotland in the event of an “illegal” independence referendum should realise that in the eyes of the EU and UN there is no difference between Catalonia and Scotland.
Both are “regions” of their member states, Spain and the UK respectively.
The EU and UN looked on as voters were beaten up. I had at least expected the EU would make some noises:
“Rock (19th September – “The warning notice”):
“The difference is spineless “sovereign” Scots bottled it despite getting a free vote whereas the Catalonians are showing real spine, although they will be crushed by the Spanish state while the EU does little more than make a few noises.”
OT – but if anyone has time to have a quick critical look:
https://yesindyref2.wordpress.com/2017/10/09/faslane/
Just a new report and though I was getting this ready, I wasn’t going to bother replying to a certain article, but the usual actual genuine real thing yoons in a certain place give me no choice, so help please!
Ian Brotherhood @ 21:33,
It took me an embarrassingly long time to discover that the main link to O/T was in the “Zany comedy relief” section. (Before that I could only get there via links in postings in the M/T or other more devious means. =blush=)
But maybe now those links should be swapped round? =grin=
@defo
Heh! Blast from the past. 🙂
@Robert J. Sutherland –
🙂 !
FUCK. THE. TORIES.
@ Cactus
Agreed.
So the National Trust for Scotland don`t care about a person`s political views,
that is scary,
and it`s a charity,
surely to become a charity you must denounce extreme right wing politics.
Gosh it can get a bit weird on these main threads at times, if you’ve never commented please do – most of us really are rather nice.
Cactus @ 22:00,
I think they’re doing a pretty good job of that to each other, all by themselves!
In my view Nicola Sturgeon has taken the right approach with regard to a second referendum. No one at all, Westminster, the SG or the EU knew what is in store for the next 18 months or so.
So sit on your hands has to be the best policy of all for those that seek Independence. Let them show their cards and then we’ll know whether to play the ace or not.
When we gain our Independence is not the important thing, only that we do. Best playing your cards close to your chest and not throwing away a winning hand only because you were bluffed out of the game because your bottle went and you jumped too soon.
Nah! Let them show everything they have first, then go all in.
@ Alex
Have to agree.
Know when to hold em, know when to fold em etc.
@ Robert J. Sutherland ~
Agreed.
OT
Phew. Well, that’s version 1 for the moment, added an RFA and LD Amphib, time for a break. Thanks for the 20 visitors so far, any thoughts or criticisms before I produce a cool calm and collected (unusual for me these days) posting to reply to the article with just complements and tonnage and some total area, (not directly to those yoons of course):
https://yesindyref2.wordpress.com/2017/10/09/faslane/
aplpgoes fp Rev for being OT
Someone is going to have to explain poker to me.
The tories have ‘a greed’
Re faslane costs etc. Think the current costs are higher as we are paying 3bn per year towards UK defence, as there are hardly any airforce and army units left in Scotland , it could be argued that we are paying at least 2bn for Naval resources. If we are doing a comparison all costs need to be included , maybe by allocating a management charge of a billion or so to Faslane.
@Paula Rose –
Can’t imagine it’s up your street.
You do get to sit very still and look glam if you wish, but it’s like slow football and involves numbers.
Less Calanalonian came out to vote. Must have not cared about bottling it. 43%.
In Scotland the turnout was 85% – double. They did not bottle it. Hope it’s 100% next time. To get over the line.
Stop your shite, you little fecker. Dumb as feck. Some folk would really like to see you at a wingers do. If you don’t bootle it. To share a fair and frank exchange. Scumbag.
Some folk would like to sent May a letter about her and her public school boys behaviour when Scottish MP’s are speaking. Bunch of low lives without a brain between them. Disgusting parasites, Put on the gloves before sending it. M15.Nasty scheming lying witch. Playing the victim. Not long before she is gone. Hope she takes her protege bully mate with her. At least Bella has a degree of decorum. Even though she broke loose at the Conference. Could not wait to show off, and play to the audience. Hoping no one would notice. They did. The Tories have really gone down with Davidson. Gone too far.
@ Ian brotherhood Yes i was at George Sq with Crazycat & Jim fae Kirky ( lurker )
@ YIR2
Not to be pedantic here but, there is a wee typo in the last paragraph. 😉
“Conclusion”
@Paula Rose
Well in poker terms such as the game Texas hold em, after all the community (shared) cards are dealt it can be seen by all players what remaining two cards (held by the players) are required to have the best possible and therefore winning hand.
This is known as the “Nut hand”. If you hold the “Nut” cards you can’t lose so can go all in no matter how aggressively your opponents have played. You have the winning hand and don’t need to see their two cards to know that. Hope that helps 🙂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_hand
“gone down with Davidson” The mind boggles.
@William Wallace Thanks for that, just correctning it now.
@Lenny Hartley
Yes, considerably higher overall, thanks, but I’m trying to keep it specific to Faslane, while throwing in an HQ which we don’t have in Scotland at the moment as part of the UK.
Scotland is paying £3.5Billion Defence. Including £Billion Trident. To provide jobs at Barrow on Furness. For McCluskey members. McCluskey financed that bastard Blair’s illegal wars with £Billions of his members money. Emblezzed it. Defrauded it. It was intended for the members welfare. The International/socialists. The Red flag flying. Drenched in blood. The stinking dirty warmonger. Watch from the penthouse. Most of these T union leaders despise the members. Some collude with the bosses at every opportunity. Illegally interfere in elections etc. To get their useless brain dead mates elected. On the gravy train of public money. Someone stood against him so he intimidated him and manipulated the vote. He should be retired. MP’s should retire at retirement age they set. Definitely by 70, except in exceptional circumstances. Let some fresh blood in.
Crowe would not give Blair any money. He used the union funds for the members welfaretc. .
And a want Cactus.
Dead eyed, even when out their faces on the Bolivian marching powder.
See THAT picture of Osbourne.
YES. WE. CAN.
Trident will be going with Brexit. There will not longer be a need to have it planted here. It will either be moved or obsolete.
“Theresa May sets out Brexit options including ‘no deal'” – BBC
“Prepare for no-deal Brexit, Theresa May warns Britain” – The Independent
“May gets real on Brexit ‘no deal’ and new border controls” – Daily Mail
“Theresa May piles pressure on Brussels by revealing detailed plans for walking away with ‘no deal’ on Brexit” – The Telegraph
“Theresa May sets out trade plans for a no-deal Brexit” – Financial Times
A bit if a pattern, tonight, I think!
Astonishing to have reached this state and have made no serious attempt to actually negotiate.
Where would you prefer to live with your home and family…
Yes Bedford Falls or Pottersville No?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oxeoiEGSyw
22 days till spooky times again.
Twit-Twoo.
Holding nuts?
Tried that dude Owen of the Graun’s thing about UK media being a loud of shite. Only got so far but he is an astonishing hypocrite that lad.
Maybe their Scotland region’s goes into kind of English media twilight zone, as soon as you cross the border in to Scotland, none of their rules apply, to anything about Scotland. Maybe’s not right either, ofcourse they have no rules.
The reason for that is this. Britain’s press is not an impartial disseminator of news and information. It is, by and large, a highly sophisticated and aggressive form of political campaigning and lobbying.
It uses its extensive muscle to defend our current economic order which, after all, directly benefits the rich moguls who own almost the entire British press. Whether it’s the Sun, the Telegraph, the Times, the Daily Mail or the Daily Express, that means promoting the partisan interests of the Conservative party.
The press has been instrumental in upholding the political consensus established by Thatcherism: deregulation, privatisation, low taxes on the rich and weak trade unions. It has traditionally defined what is politically acceptable and palatable in Britain, and ignored, demonised and humiliated individuals and movements which challenge this consensus.”
See how just another posh boy leaves out the biggest UKOK issue of all, slave wages, in their shithead union.
And he is part of the brigade ‘demonising’ Scotland’s Independence movement and the competency of our elected government. The very thing he decries is the very thing he does himself.
@ Paula
Think I tried to post this but cannae remember if I pushed the submit button or no. 🙂 Shooorry if eh did Stu. No trying to wind ya up honest. 🙂
A quick summary o the gemme
Twa cairds in yir hand. Fehve on the table. Yiv to mak a hand o fehve wi what yiv got in yir hand and what is on the table. A dealer chip moves roond the table and the two people ahead o the dealer chip hae to pay in a small blind and big blind of increasing value as the gemme wears on.
Anybody that wants to play their hand must match the big blind and any subsequent raises or they need to fold. Some players are “slow players” and wait for the blaggers and impatient folk (fast and loose players) to lose ah their chips first afore getting involved, when only the serious players are left in the gemme.
Here is the hand rankings.
http://bettingshaman.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/poker-hand-ranking.jpg
Ah like that Alex, so in essence we will have them by the Nuts.
The Nuts
In poker, the best possible hand for any arrangement of cards is known as the ‘nuts’. Sometimes you will be fortunate enough to hold the nut hand after all the cards have been dealt. In that case you would be in a completely unbeatable position. However, it is sometimes possible that someone else may have the same hand as you, in which case you will split the pot.
Holding nuts?
Best WoS btl comment in ages:D
Look! There’s a squirrel!
@ Heedtracker
Adds a whole new meaning to “oh look a squirrel” hahahahahaha. 🙂
@WW
That’s true but if your holding the nuts you still can’t be beat!
I played strip poker once – that involved quite a lot of nut holding.
I think that the Scottish Government are holding the nuts over Westminster right now. They just don’t know that yet and are still playing like fish. Nicola Sturgeon just needs to reel them in 🙂
OT – the EKOS report (unless it’s an old one the article was based on) probably be in the MSM the next day or two as yet another attack on the stupidity of Indy and all the job losses for fsked Scotland. Oh how we laughed.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/fact-check-many-jobs-depend-faslane/
Thanks the twa of you, done that, phew, time for another cuppa, fag and back to actual work.
Great minds Ian 😉
WE. OWN. MIDNIGHT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_4IrDdFa20
IMHO, this is a totally unacceptable response and indicates the NTS does not understand it’s own purpose. How can someone who clearly holds an unfavorable, ideological, position on Scotland’s self-determination, act as an honest ambassador for Scottish cultural heritage?
https://nationalismstudies.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/ernest-gellner-2/
http://www.cambridgescholars.com/download/sample/62032
@ Cactus
Said the “midnight ploughboy” 😉
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUaqkp2xMzY
Previously on the shoogly peg:
https://wingsoverscotland.com/keep-the-red-fists-flying/
@ Alex
That’s what eh said 😉
Then again Ya could lose wi the nuts if you were the tory party or the westmonster establishment 😉
They wouldnae ken a winning hand if we handed them ah wir chips and walked awa fae the table. The best they can hope fir is a draw.
The problem fir them is that we are playing to win and we are playing fir keeps. 🙂
I’ve been dealt two kings…
You know the talk 🙂
I’ve got the yee-hars!
Freebird has just kicked in on my PLAYlist 🙂
Card.
Here be a thing.
See whenever aye go a gambling in the City of Glasgow.
When I cash in, they ALWAYS pay me out with Bank of England notes?
Splits on the zero.
8/11 on the head.
The rich get richer and the poor!!!!!
https://caltonjock.com/2014/09/10/the-free-market-a-global-ponzie-scheme-designed-by-the-rich-for-the-benefit-of-the-rich-and-westminster-politicians-determined-not-miss-out-on-the-plunder/
Splits withoot the L Cactus?
Voisins banknotes?
We’ll hae to get wir ain iy 😉
Very disjointed thread this evening – difficult to follow some of it.
Here’s my O/T contribution…https://twitter.com/ScotNational
The National headline tomorrow, it seems that the Scotland Office forgot to tell the Scottish Government that there are new Brexit papers.
That’ll be an interesting story to read over breakfast!
——-
If Catalonia declare Indy tomorrow and then suspend it that will be a brave move.
They change their status but effectively keep the status quo.
Plus it honours the Yes voters’ ordeal to get the vote out.
Rahoy will not be amused – but surely cannot send in the troops because of the suspension.
Pray there will be no more violence.
Sur ra roulette…
0 / 3 / 6 / 9
8 / 11 / 14 / 17 / 20
30 / 33
Tis a good cover.
And roll…
Ya aywiz dunk the table
when eh go tae throw meh dice 😉
Talk about the spooky season.
Freebird has just came back on for another PLAY.
What’s the random chances of that?
Treat or Treat!
Aye ye dunk the table n bump the flippers.
Dunk n bump!
Aka tilt.
@NTS
I think you may need to work on developing ethical norms of practice.
https://nationalismstudies.wordpress.com/2013/10/09/ernest-gellner-2/
Beyond “Culture”: Space, Identity, and the Politics of Difference
http://www4.uwm.edu/c21/conferences/2008since1968/ferguson_beyondculture.pdf
http://testpolitics.pbworks.com/w/page/39720382/European%20Cultural%20Identity#TheneedforaEuropeanCulturetoprogresstheEuropeanUnion
IT’S. ONE. O’CLOCK.
1 AM CREW .
😉
Three words eftir ah.
Feck! Late again!
@NTS
P.S. You’re not BritNat cultural imperialists are you?
http://www4.uwm.edu/c21/conferences/2008since1968/ferguson_beyondculture.pdf
Whiskey for Lucidity Ian 😉 Ride on time 🙂
bob says 11:34 am
‘Looks like the Catalans are about to bottle out. France saying they won’t recognise an UDI. EU offering no support whatsoever.
We are on our own.’
If only we were Bob.
Trick or treat:
https://wingsoverscotland.com/trick-or-treat/
Oops, Public Culture, Cultural Identity, Cultural Policy link.
http://www.palgrave.com/de/book/9781137398611
Via SGP yougov poll results
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?SCOTCON=23&SCOTLAB=30&SCOTLIB=5&SCOTNAT=40&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&type=scotland&display=AllChanged®orseat=%28none%29&boundary=2017
@ Louis
Wouldnae be the first time fir they turncoats iy.
Fuck France tbh.
Visca el Barça i Visca Catalunya
Not alone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6iYGUn06QE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gApaq-QyTJs
Hope there is another post put up asap as it is getting rather fractious here.
INDEPENDENCE. IS. NORMAL.
Indyref2
That’s a reassuring prediction you’ve found there.
Like the sound of Stirling going back to being SNP – have heard Stephen Kerr give a couple of speeches so far – cringing and embarrassing.
Also like the sound of the SNP gaining 8 seats. Bring it on!
Nt nt all.
@Meg merrilees
Yes, it’s promising, and I hope it continues. If a GE does come along in a hurry, it would be a great slap across the face of rUK “reality” if the SNP increased the number of MPs. It’ll also be interesing to see how the polls go after this, as Torrance described it (just read him, good article) “a rather dull conference, and purposefully so”. I think this was potentially a very dangerous conference with the agitation we’ve seen from some public figures, I was quite worried it’d go the wrong way, and I’ll be glad to see the back of it uneventfully. Delighted to see “steady as she goes” Angus Robertson still as Depute, and “quiet man” Swinney as DFM.
Anyway, just dusted off that blog article, a tidy up, sit back and check it over a bit more – I had to use bits of the contents in a hurry – and it’s off to the scratcher for me too!
Zzzzzz
The Scot Goes Pop article is interesting. Seems the British National papers tried to bury the Westminster intention poll. It shows the SNP up 3%. James Kelly found the detail when YouGov published the datasets.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/new-scottish-poll-is-unmitigated.html
Is the labour leadership competition for the branch office still happening?
What’s the main policies? Support Corbyn and Brexit or support the Tories and Brexit ? Or both
Torrance is a total incompetent making money out of Indepenence. His nice little earner. Usually typing a load of nonsense. He can’t count or read a balance sheet. A total dunce who would bother listening to him. Not a lot. Not a lot. A right little creep. Gives most folk the shivers. Sanctimonious clueless little bastard. What a fool. Stinking Tories.
‘Anxiety and Depression’ in workers up a 1/3 in four years. Due to that bastard May. The most useless, lying disgusting Tory ever put in office, That creep. Witch. Worse than Thatcher who destroyed the world economy. Now that cow is doing the same, The stinking filthy Tories. Scum of the earth. Labour/LibDem much the same with Greens tagging along.
The Tram catastophe could there every have been a bigger balls up. Masionic bastards. Have saved 1% of emissions. After a catalogue of total marketing lies. In some places they have caused disruption of traffic which causes more emissions. A catalogue of errors. Never mind the businesses etc which were badly affected, some never recovered.
Most of them should be put in jail.
Oap’s from other Cities are prohibited from using their off peak travel passes on the Trams. An absolute disgrace. Edinburgh the wealthiest City in Scotland has subsidised public transport. Milking it in. Gorging on public money and subsidy. The Trams were supposed to be for the whoke of Scotland. Yet (women) OAP are not allowed to use their off peak travel passes on them. Often the poorest people in Scotland. Yet they can’t get a subsided trip they are entitled to on the Trams. Edinburgh crooks. The Scottish Gov should tell this crooks were to go. The Waspi women and others are not getting to benefit from using the Trams. Get it sorted. Unionist scumbags politicians. Useless bastards.
O/T
I caught the end of an interview on 5 live at 7.45.
Mike Russell was being condescended, hectored and to put not too fine a point on it, attacked by bbc employee miss burdon. He breezed through his grilling like a ship in full sail, and was clear and concise in the way he answered, even having to point out blatent lies contained in the questions.
Scotsman Nicky Campbell is copresenter of the programme, but it struck me that he didn’t do the interview as we needed a “superior” English voice rubbishing the SNP.
Another thing I noticed was that the agenda was the same as Marr on Sunday, and the questions about various things were in the same order. Brexit was handled easily by Mike Russell, so it was on to catalunya, then predictably education was the point of attack, and our interviewer was not very gracious when the Jackie Baillie she was talking about the huge decline in standards was exposed as guff
I searched in vain for the BBC live coverage of the SNP conference on their website. But in the Parliament section, under Parliament schedule, you scroll down to find they are broadcasting Nicola Sturgeon’s speech at 8.00 pm tonight.
UK is not a banana republic, because we’re not even a republic. I don’t want to insult bananas either.
But we do have a news blackout on the SNP. Given that they are back up to 40% in the Westminster intention polls, the party of Government in Scotland, the third largest UK party and Westminster party, should there not be parity in broadcasting?
Links
Discussions on Brexit – International
https://blogs.gov.scot/international/2017/10/09/770/
http://indyref2.scot/ruth-davidson-and-the-bbc-whats-going-on
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/new-scottish-poll-is-unmitigated.html
https://news.gov.scot/news/scottish-national-investment-bank
http://www.businessforscotland.com/europes-independence-movements-signal-end-centralised-nation-states/
https://itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com/2017/10/09/the-cringe-finds-a-new-home/
https://mewsingoutloud.wordpress.com/2017/10/09/oh-that-many/
http://www.holyrood.com/articles/inside-politics/rumours-snps-demise-are-exaggerated
The HSBC tax scandal – a conspiracy at highest level of government and banking?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqbQzZ_JA3k&feature=youtu.be
Government Pleads For Ideas For ‘No Deal’ Brexit Customs Arrangements
http://archive.is/0iYW0
New power grab? UK trade white paper para 3.2, ‘concurrent’ powers (UK too)if EU trade deals touch on devolved areas
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preparing-for-our-future-uk-trade-policy
Establishment’ tried to block Heath paedophile inquiry, says police chief who ran it
http://archive.is/tR440
Brexit talks stutter, but EU leaders might give May break
http://archive.is/NN5sf
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/09/opinions/mays-weak-leadership-is-hurting-brexit-merrick-opinion/index.html
The Latest: Nobel peace winners urge mediation in Spain
http://archive.is/59vCh
MPs to hold emergency debate on Tories’ plan to ignore democracy
http://archive.is/HtWPP
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-09/spanish-government-issues-veiled-death-threat-catalan-leader
http://www.cataloniavotes.eu/en/how-catalonia-can-obtain-international-recognition-according-to-foreign-affairs/
The Latest: Nobel peace winners urge mediation in Spain
http://archive.is/59vCh
I’ve been having trouble with my Internet connection for days now. Off for hours on end on then on again for a couple of hours. Engineers looking into it but seem to be getting nowhere. Anyone else on here having problems? Anyway trying to catch up now.
@Valerie at 5:53pm …. “Alyn Smith’s new book ‘Scotland in Europe.’
Thanks for that Valerie. Excellent. Really useful for getting the point / truth across to Scottish Brexiteers.
………………….
@ Nana at 5:49pm …… ‘Ian Blackford’
This should be shown on BBC (aye right) and STV. Their behaviour is absolutely disgraceful. I can’t wait for the day when our SMP MPs march out of that place en masse and leave the wee Englanders to get on with it. Left booing and baaing at each other until they’re blue in the face.
…………………….
@ Brian at 7:28pm ……… ‘Conference link.’
Thanks for that Brian. I’ll take a look at it later now that I’m back online. It’s just ridiculous that millions of Scots don’t have a clue about what’s going on whilst every ‘cough’ that comes out of May’s mooth is reported ad nauseum or rather ad nauseous.
…………………….
@ Rock at 7:30pm …….. “The likes of you have no respect at all for the owner of this site.”
Well thanks for that Rock, you just did me a favour (not that that was your intention of course), as I actually missed that message which was posted on another article. The “likes of me” has a GREAT deal of respect for the owner of this site, the many decent posters and the Independence movement in general. You on the otherhand “the likes of you” spend your time trying to destroy this site, IMO, and undermine the credibility of posters that you see as a real threat, such as Robert Peffers. All I can say is that targeting me for a change gives him a much needed break. Strange too that you seem to be copying a great deal of data from this site, full time job?, which you then paste on here at a later date. What’s that all about?
……………………………………
BBC news: More talk of T May opting for No Deal now.
Some sort of debate is to be carried out today on Yorkshire becoming (more) Independent (word used). Population of 4/5 million and bringing in more dough than Wales (Wales 3 m pop?). Double the amount of money they say. You could see that they would have loved to have used Scotland as the example rather than Wales but no doubt reckoned that would be a step too far, lol. Long term plan of course is for Scotland to be a wee Shire of England alongside Yorkshire etc.
……………………..
Last but not least. Good luck and best wishes from Wings Catalonia X Fingers crossed for you X
Write a letter to a non friend. May and her cronies. Inundate Downing Street with waste paper. Any old junk mail. Or a complaint about the way Scottish MP’s are treated at Westminster. Give some abuse. Get them back for the abuse issued by them. For more forthright views. Use gloves and post as far away from location as possible. (M15) If a reply is required, even better more admin required. Keep them Inundated with every possible concern. Again and again. They have to reply.
Especially concern about these morons bad manners towards Scottish MP’s when they speak. Just fill it with old junk mail if that’s the only response required. If everyone does it they will be inundated with vast screeds of paper. Clogging up their whoke system. They will know what people think of them. Just like they try to do to others. Do not give e-mail addresses or phone nos. They can use them. Addresses are OK if wanting a reply. Anonymous is ok just to get point of view across. Call it a little letter writing campaign. Exchange replies. The tripe that will come back.
Are Teaching unions are not allowing Science and Maths graduates to retrain as teachers because they do not have Higher English? if they have o’level. That is beyond belief. Smacks of jealousy. The teacher shortage could be wiped out. With surplus teachers. Graduates with dregrees and high qualification are being rejected. Many have worked in industry for years in high positions. They would be excellent people to mentor students, it is just unbelievable. Teachers unions are ruining their own profession. They are never stopped going on about lack of teacher and stress etc. Yet they would prevent these excellent people entering their profession. Hypocritical.
Higher English consists of 50%? literature. Books and poems. Why would a highly qualified person need that knowledge to teach maths or science. Give them a book list read or do Higher English when training. It is totally non essential. With o’level English. Most Doctors can’t write. Obviously there are reasons why the medical profession would need Higher English and other professions.
The teachers unions can stop whining and moaning if they are the ones stopping these absolutely worthwhile applicants go into training. Sounds like a bit of green eye jealousy they might have some amazing completion. So try to protect their status, Not concerned about the students getting excellent experienced teachers and mentors. In many cases (previously) doing mainly maths and science subjects. Higher English would not have fitted into the syllabus because of time restrictions.
John Swinney should have a word with these T unions to find a way forward. It is just ridiculous rejecting so many good applicants. With so much shortages.
Nicola’s speech is on BBC2 at 3pm live. Record it of phone a friend to do so.
Most of the Conference has been on continually on the Parliamentary Channel or the red button. Choices.
There is no News blackout of the SNP Conference by the BBC. It is being shown in almost entirety because legally they have to. They could play the numbers game and shown less.
ken500
your posts are becoming more and more random by the minute. they look like they were farted out by a random snpbad insult generator app.
i suppose we should say goodbye before your handlers decide to reboot and you disappear into the aether along with the other 499
Greetings to all on here who know me and hoping you have a great Conference. Excuse my absence, this time.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/brexit-prepare-for-the-worst-1.3249893
Campaign Director of Vote Leave deleted his twitter account. Jon Worth has been digging
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/917643401583054848
https://jonworth.eu/dominic-cummings-odysseanproject-deletes-twitter-account-piecing-back-together/
@Nana
Useful quote in that interesting Catalonian article: “sets out in the magazine Foreign Affairs, influential publication on international relations, and required reading in numerous embassies and diplomatic spheres.”
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/
I think I’ll bookmark that!
@ Ken500 – I don’t have a TV and don’t pay the TV Tax, but I do scroll through their website and noted that there were daily live links to the Tory and Labour Conferences with clips galore, interviews, opinion pieces etc. Now – nothing. I had to enter “SNP conference” in their search box to even find that they will be broadcasting Nicola’s speech at 8.00 pm tonight.
That is censorship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship
Nana says
” Irish preparations have been hampered by the fact that, well over a year after the Brexit referendum, the UK’s intentions are still not clear. “
Ireland could get a thoroughly bum deal over Brexit. And they certainly didn’t play any part in creating the problem.
Media full of ‘prepare for no deal’ stories. I don’t know how anyone else assesses the situation but I feel the UK hasn’t even tried to negotiate. Virtually nothing has been dealt with. And as the instigator of Brexit, it is the UK who should be finding solutions to the knock on problems, not anyone else.
If you don’t even try to negotiate, then you could never have been serious about negotiating. All the indications are that the Tories never did want a deal.
Well, Hell mend them and Scotland needs to get into the lifeboat.
@Nana
Been beaten to it I see, but that Irish Times piece ain’t wrong. 🙂
Capella says:
I agree. Omission, avoidance, playing down, hiding stories, applying low priority, overshadowing, deflecting, reporting partially, fewer words, shorter time … etc etc.
Bias, censorship, and propaganda …. they needn’t involve falsehood or deceit.
It fact, the most effective methods are probably those which avoid actual lying.
@yesindyref2
I linked to the foreign affairs.com before, possibly during our referendum. Good to know you found something interesting in the links.
@Macart
I read something yesterday [could have been from the world bank] on how the UK gov have basically ignored every expert as well as all other parts of the UK except England of course!
We knew we were ignored but seriously Scotland needs to wake up and quick about it.
https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/917489080144941056
New courts planned for England, ride roughshod over Scots law?
http://archive.is/DHnKl
On that ‘slip’
Gov’t to SNP: ‘Sorry, trade paper slipped our mind’
http://archive.is/AeUaO
Has anybody noticed now that Independence has been “taken off the back burner” “removed from the shelf” “back on the table”
“front and centre” again
All the usual suspects have been silent, even the media isn’t screaming
What’s wrong with these people and why aren’t they going mental again
Why isn’t Willie Rennie telling us what’s in the FMs dreams again, where are the tanks, why is Scotland not on the brink of imminent collapse, why aren’t our children suffering
It’s quiet, too damned quiet (Looking over my shoulder)
Mike Russell telling it like it is ….
“It is the UK which has chosen to leave the EU, clearly they have to come up with the proposals for discuss. If they are refusing to come up with the proposals and now openly talking about not taking part in negotiation and walking, that’s a new degree of seriousness and it will cause enormous difficulty.”
http://archive.is/CNcxh
I must admit, the SNP have risen well to the unfolding Breshite chaos. Strong positions have been taken. What needs to be said has been.
However, how much of this extra media exposure for the SNP has only happened because the conference is taking place? Would many of the SNP announcements would have been ignored otherwise? And certainly there have been more interviews because of the conference, and those have given opportunity to express opinions,
@galamcennalath
9 October, 2017 at 12:41 pm
I agree with the possibilities you have mentioned and your biggest fear being, a general election which labour wins, posing as the Brexit single market party and, no excuse for IndyRef2 and Scotland’s problems in the Union remain unresolved.
That is a possibility I would have concerns about as well.
But I see a problem with that scenario, firstly the EU has made it clear to May and the Tories there will be no cherry picking and Brexit means Brexit, out means your out.
It now appears May is exploring the possibility of leaving the EU without a deal, even if we crash out of the EU in March 2019.
And I maybe wrong about this, and hope I am,but I don’t see the Tories being stupid enough, to call another general election before 2022.
So even if Corbyn decided to attempt to put an offer in a general election to the electorate for to re-negotiate a more moderate Brexit deal.
How many other EU nations would be happy with a UK Corbyn government coming back for another bite at the cherry in 2022?
Also we would should be continually reminding the electorate that Corbyn wanted article 50 signed just after the EU referendum and his stance on Brexit differed little from that of the Tories.
Ken 500
I replied to your previous rant about teachers and Highers further up this thread.
Clearly you did not bother reading it or the links I gave included in my replies to you.
Scientist have to write reports and entry to most University courses in Scotland irrespective of degree subject require Higher English and have done so for decades.
Maths is also required for those on Science courses. Scientists have to do calculations for all manner of things.
Finally, O levels are an English qualification – in Scotland it was O grade
‘New courts planned for England, ride roughshod over Scots law?’
When the coloniser decides the colonised has learned how to use the existing rules effectively, they change the rules and seek conflict to divide the colonised and ensure the rules are changed to their advantage.
That’s one of the multi pronged attack we are under.
Rule changes – brexit provided the opportunity
Press and state broadcaster
Austerity
Suppression of democracy, no Indy 2
Undermining our industry
Reneging on promises
General attack on our institutions and self confidence
England held on to its colonies longer and prevented 19 century revolutions by giving a bit, not out of decency, but to maximise benefit to England and avoiding disruption of repatriated profit.
But the winds of change are with us, the English elites have broken the rules by taking on a foe they can not beat. The EU, who will change the rules to their advantage, that’s not in the English rule book!
‘Catalan president could declare independence today’
http://catalannews.com
Tell you what, if he doesn’t do it soon, I think he will have missed a very very big boat.
SNP Conference starting soon. It’s on periscope, so probably twitter and Facebook too. Probably Independence live too.
Nicola,s speech is on BBC2 at 3pm
@Nana
I always scan over the links, not normally around this time of the day. Subject is often revealed in the link itself, or in your one-liner, and I pick ones that interest me!
Thanks for all your efforts 🙂
@Legerwood
“Scientist have to write reports and entry to most University courses in Scotland irrespective of degree subject require Higher English and have done so for decades.”
A friend of mine, is dyslexic, no higher English but got into Heriot-Watt to do a physics degree. They had to have a special meeting to decide whether he could.
He got his degree.
P.S. Despite the evidence I provide in my posts, that was a genuine friend.
galamcennalath 9:47 a
You quoted ” Irish preparations have been hampered by the fact that, well over a year after the Brexit referendum, the UK’s intentions are still not clear”
and … “It is the UK which has chosen to leave the EU, clearly they have to come up with the proposals for discuss. If they are refusing to come up with the proposals and now openly talking about not taking part in negotiation and walking, that’s a new degree of seriousness and it will cause enormous difficulty.”
Purely at a “business level” I am struggling to understand the EU’s position. Factually, the UK is Leaving the EU – that is what article 50 says and everyone else agrees it says. If nobody says another word or agrees anything then we will just leave the EU (and of course there would be all sorts of repercussions for all parties).
The Eu seem to be saying that in order to leave we have to agree or make proposals about how we will leave – it is up to us, the ball is in our court so to speak. How do we reconcile this?
More broadly, personally speaking (as an ex Remainer) I think, at last, we are finally playing our cards a bit better. We have made it quite clear we want a reciprocal deal on EU citizens rights and we have made it quite clear that we are prepared to pay additional sums after we have left the EU. That is far enough at this point.
If the EU dont want a Tariff free trade deal (which would be particularly stupid and inept) then they need to indicate that now. If they dont wan free trade then they need to explain why they are happy to have a virtually traiff free trade with Canada – but not one of their biggest export markets 20 miles off the European mainland. If it is because they need to puish us or because it is “we can#t be better of” then they need to say now that that is the case.
If we are not going to get a free trade deal then, to coin a phrase “all bets are off” and we need to withdraw our divorce settlement back to the legal minimum.
The idea that the UK is holding up progress is just silly. The EU is playing games, including brinkmanship, just like anyone would expect during negotiations. The EU is just not in a position to make all the demands if they truly want a deal.
SD is back!
Man, this is the Mother of All Threads…it’s got everything!
😉
Now all we need is some serious poetry.
Rimbaud, anyone?
‘Leading Catalan activist Anna Arque to speak at Scottish Independence Convention event.’
Event passes are on sale on the Usher Hall website for £15 with concession prices of £8.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15583687.Leading_Catalan_activist_to_speak_at_major_Scottish_independence_conference/
…………………………………
Interview with Anna Arqué on Catalan Independence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbhSyLxayws
………………………..
‘Wee Ginger Dug: It’s surrender that Spain wants, not a solution.’
Great informative article.
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15582381.Wee_Ginger_Dug__It___s_surrender_that_Spain_wants__not_a_solution/
………………………….
@ Ken500 says at 8:59 am …. ”Nicola’s speech is on BBC2 at 3pm live….. Most of the Conference has been on continually on the Parliamentary Channel or the red button. Choices…… There is no News blackout of the SNP Conference by the BBC. It is being shown in almost entirety because legally they have to.”
Thanks Ken I see it is on BBC2 at 3:00pm for two hours.
Ach it’s dreich and the thread is jist as dreich wi doom and slagging.
So seeing as the Poker topic was a refreshing change, I’m weighing in wi this explanation.
Poker as a square go at school :
The class is yir hauners. Ye get a couple of names haundit tae ye oot the hat naebody gets tae ken aboot.
Yin at a time, sumdy random appears fae ahint the bike shed.
Then ye’re just bragging each time to yir opponent, that he’s gonny get a serious doing by the heavy team ye’re accumulating
Naebody kens if ye’ve got Mad Wullie blades fae the scheme and big Shug (that wiz kept oan), but yir opponent is gauny kid oan they’re oan his team.
Wee Alison, Same claithes McGill, Fiona wi the skin rash, Rory and that big midden Senga huv appeared, wan at a time, fae behind the bike shed.
Then oot pops wan o the Gallagher brothers!
If yir opponent has the ither wan o the Gallagher brothers as weel and mibbes big Shug (that wiz kept oan) Ye’re probably getting a serious bleaching!
But ye kiddy oan it’s you that’s got the ither Gallagher heidcase, by weighing in wi all your dinner money and since yir opponent is a bottle merchant, he folds and runs awa greeting.
But ye only had Wee Mikey and Bubbly Jock hahaha!
Top bragging there!
Mibbe yir oppo will shite it afore even the full squad is oot. Mibbe you will…
If nane o ye brick it, ye square up and work oot who had the potential heaviest team and find oot ye were baith full of shit.
A lot of bragging really, Which is why most have probably played poker at school. It was 3 Card Brag between classes or maybe 5 Card Brag at a break. And you lost your dinner money a lot.
Usually to the guy who wiz shite at maths, but could coont aw richt – He’d coont ye oot if ye didny play him!
Poker is just a jazzed up version, nothing special.
Errr, I jist minded the Rev plays aye?
I was just about to say though, that Poker is usually played by some highly intelligent people, who know all about the mathematics of probability and study Game Theory, have an extraordinarily good memory and a lot of bottle.
Usually incredibly handsome as well.
Definitely, well known fact that.
sensibledave says:
EU citizens in the UK must have the same rights as EU citizens in the EU. So far the UK has offered to ‘take note of ECJ’ rulings but has not guaranteed that the ECJ will actually be involved. UK citizens in the EU will have the ECJ to turn to. The UK has offered poorer rights, not a reciprocal arrangements.
I’ll give the Tories credit for what seems reasonable progress.
May gave a commitment to pay for the privilege of staying in the single market during transition. Firstly, surely she didn’t think you could get access for nothing. Secondly, that has absolutely nothing to do with paying for commitments already made which has nothing to do with the future relationship.
On this, I give the Tories nul points. I see absolutely no progress on the ‘divorce bill’.
As for Ireland, perhaps the most important because here it’s about actual peace. The Good Friday agreement was possible because Ireland and the UK were in the EU and could build common Ireland wide institutions and policies. The border disappeared. The Tories proceeded with Brexit with no fore thought for the situation and implications. They need to take this very seriously. They haven’t.
Nul points here too.
Negotiate? They haven’t even tried.
mahari Black giving it to them straight on BBC red button. You cant eat fresh air and broken promises
@Iain Mhor 11:14am
Gangin blin?
When Mhari Black talks…my heart sings.
@Snode1965 –
🙂
She’s soo-perb, probably one of the finest orators since Sheridan, and every bit as inspirational without having to bellow.
Mairi Black telling us that Scottish Labour are a constant reminder of what NOT to become in another of her down to earth straight talking powerful speeches
Including some laughs and how we can’t afford NOT to be Independent so something for everyone
People who have o’level English can still wrote Reports in a science environment. Or get someone to write it for them. That is what usually happens. It can be dictated or subscribed to an admin assistant. Even first clas writers (with or without degrees) have editors and admin staff.
Why are people with excellent maths and science degree being turned away because from teacher training for having, only having o’level English . It is absolutely nonsensical.
50%? of Higher English is l Book & poems. Literature. Why is it imperative the Maths and sciences teachers to need this knowledge
There are millions of people with o’level English in high positions in industry. Writing hundreds of (often useless) reports. Industry and public services is full of them. They are people without o’level English in industry etc writing (often useless)reports every day.
There are managing director and other in high posts without a degree or any qualifications. Writing reports or getting people to write reports and literature everyday. Some of them are not even competent on the internet.
Write. There. Jump?predictive text.
Nugent. A nugget.
Stood against the SNP official candidate in Shetland?
OT I’m posting this because it gives such a good description of the UK government – “bizarre combination of arrogance and rank incompetence”
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/10/theresa-may-tries-pass-off-handwaves-meaningful-planning-case-disorderly-brexit.html
The idea that the UK could join the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) if it doesn’t do a trade deal with the EU is being floated,
If the UK ever allows large amounts of US food products in, it can kiss goodbye to trading its own food with much of the world including the EU.
Of course, when you look at what type of UK some of the furtherest right nutters want, it appears distinctly American. Minimal regulation, small government, neo liberal dream.
Why don’t they just apply to be the 51st state and be done with it?
Iain Brotherhood at 11:03 am.
Some poetry, okay, but please, no Rimbaud. I remember having to read him in SYS French at school.
But what about some recipes to fill in the gaps? Lamb Pilaf is great.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-clearing/eu-lawmakers-give-tentative-nod-to-brexit-clearing-law-that-could-clobber-britain-idUKKBN1CF168
No further comment.
Just for interest about viewing patterns, in the just over 2 hours after I posted that link to my Faslane jobs blog thing last night at 9.44 pm, there were 48 visitors. 16 today. All from the links, bar one from twitter. Cleaned it up again now, hopefully for the last time, with a summary at the top.
https://yesindyref2.wordpress.com/2017/10/09/faslane/
Nick Clegg on the Daily Politics informing us that the people who won the Brexit vote must keep their promises to people who lost the vote
Pity he never applied that logic to the people of Scotland to whom every single promise in the Smith Commission was broken and is still being broken
Selective memory loss these liars suffer from
Chick McGregor says:
10 October, 2017 at 10:42 am
@Legerwood
“Scientist have to write reports and entry to most University courses in Scotland irrespective of degree subject require Higher English and have done so for decades.”
A friend of mine, is dyslexic, no higher English but got into Heriot-Watt to do a physics degree. They had to have a special meeting to decide whether he could.
He got his degree.
P.S. Despite the evidence I provide in my posts, that was a genuine friend.
……………………
I taught in schools, albeit briefly, and at Glasgow Uni. Lots of pupils/students with dyslexia on degree courses including the sciences. They get extra time in exams both at school and uni. Some get to use a computer. Some, because of the nature of their dyslexia, get a reader and/or a scribe and some get the exam papers printed on specific coloured paper. I had one student who required a pink overlay and another who needed the exam paper printed on yellow paper.
Schools and unis go to great lengths to accommodate pupils and students with special needs. Unis also take students with non-standard entry qualifications albeit after some discussion and possibly and interview with the applicant. Unis also run access courses usually during the summer break to help those coming via a non-standard route.
Humza on Daily Politics giving JoJo a hard time on taxes.
‘That’s spin. Puts a whirling dervish to shame’.
Brilliant.
@Greannach –
🙂
Only joking…daren’t risk the hammers.
I would like to correct a typo on the first line of my post at 10 October, 2017 at 10:12 am
It should have read as, I agree with the concerns about the possibilities.
Interesting that that the Tories are now looking at the idea of the UK joining NFTA.
Do they seriously believe they will get a great deal from Trump.
Weren’t they complaining about protectionism ewhem Boeing put Tariffs Bombadier
But what a Tory cheerleader Jo the joby is. Just a big establishment love in with big Monty today
Mhairi Black’s address to conference.
Pretty damn awesome. 🙂
That’s a statement in HoC going on just now about job cuts in BAE, which has now doubled to 2000 jobs across the UK.
Statement to come about Bombardier. This will be junior Minister training for a while, just turning up to say, we will do everything we can.
Robert Peffers 12.27
I’m pretty sure that’s just one of the EUs many moves which will stifle UK, who will play the victim, to these EU sensible decisions, as to what the 27 want.
This game that UK thought they could play is deluded. The EU is stuffed with professional and strategic minds, just getting on with the day job.
Uk is toast.
An interesting quote from Torrance’s article yesaterday “Andrew Wilson’s Growth Commission is also nearing completion and set to appear as three reports – on public finances, growth and currency – totalling 400 pages. Credible detail on all these areas is arguably long overdue. “. And then from MacAskill today: “The groundwork needs laid in constructing the platform of a competent Government and addressing the fears that people have on currency, trade or the economy.“.
My calculator says “4”. Batteries not included.
People with additional needs can be amazingly talented in certain areas. If it is recognised. It should be diagnosed but often is not, especially in girls who tend to be more articulate. So can cover it well. They are legally required to have dispensation. They can take an exam In a quiet room. Or use a computer etc. The often have exceptional talents and abilities which can be nurtured with the right support. In some cases the parents do not accept any need for additional support. The schools can not do anything to help the situation making life more difficult for the child.
The unionists councils cut addition needs support deliberately. It can require a room in good schools where the additional needs children can go at certain times in the day to de-stress or do other projects with a trained additional needs teacher. They are wonderful people, The salt of the earth. Properly trained. Some assume the role without proper training. They are worse.
The unionist Council cut the money allocated to education. Deliberately have higher class sizes and then take the money and (illegally) spend it on any other nonsense they can find. Waste money like water.
John Swinney sets the statutue of limitation of class sizes at 30. ie that is for extreme cases. e.g. New housing being built and a school not being build in time or a temporary situation that needs to be resolved. What these unionist councils do is they use the statutue of limitation (30) as the norm. So they have (illegal) larger class sizes 27 or 28. Often with a classroom assistant for 1 to 3 primaries. They then take the cut from the allocated money say it isn’t need (in their opinion) and spent it on any other nonsense.
It means the teachers are stressed out. The pupils are not getting the best deal. The additional needs children and families,in the most need,are not getting the adequate support required. Ultimately it means more has to be spent on mental health, NHS Social care, police, fire, addiction services. Certain troubles could have been caught in the bud far earlier. With children and families getting the required support. Just because the unionist councils want to cut corners on public services. Instead wasting money on grotesque monstrosities the majority do not want. They want the money allocated spent on public services. That is what the public want.
John Swinney should take the statute limit down to 25 or less. That would deal with the unionists. Trying to cut the allocated education money,and squandering it. He is trying to do them a favour in exceptional circumstances. The just take the mick. Thinking they are being smart. That no one is noticing. They are.
John Swinney is now having to give the funds straight to the schools to stop these ignorant unionist low live lobbing off a cut. Then blaming John Swinney. One actually did. The one who was voting to lobb off a cut. Never put that on the illegal electoral leaflets.
For goodness sake (UK Parliament) Mark Francois is pissed. Supporting selling weapons to Saudia Arabia. Stake shareholder in illegal killing,
The unionist councils always try to take credit for what the Scottish Gov has directed. All the projects they finance. The sports centre (Scottish Gov funded) has the imagine of the chief Labour jobsworthy plastered all over it. On the TV in front of the Scottish Gov funded affordable houses trying to take credit for it. They build no houses ever.
Torrance and his cronies are total unimportant, irrelevant poseurs. Torance can’t count or read a balance sheet. Otherwise he would not spout so much nonsense. With imagination,ability or vision. Can’t even go on the internet and find out a few facts. A complete and utter dunce.getting by exploiting the Independence movement to make money. A total irrelevant hanger on.
Ian at 11.03
…. never been away Ian, just not much interesting stuff to talk about. Still not either really.
@ Peter McCulloch says at 12:54 pm … ”Interesting that the Tories are now looking at the idea of the UK joining NFTA. Do they seriously believe they will get a great deal from Trump. Weren’t they complaining about protectionism when Boeing put Tariffs on Bombadier.”
Just what I was thinking about Peter. You’d have to be crazy to trust Trump. On the other hand the Tory crew have proven to be right off, of their bl**dy heads. A US 219% trade levy! FGS.
Now I hear that BAE are cutting 2000 jobs. One guy on TV is saying where’s Theresa May? Is she coming down here (with beellie-bag face)?
It just get worse by the minute. They can carry on muttering about the divorce bill, EU/UKNats but I don’t see them ever resolve the Irish situation. That’ll be the stumbling block, imo.
@ Legerwood
Yer a star.
Some additional needs pupils get more support at college and uni. Than they do at school. That is a main problem.
Some people have told Derek McKay. There are suppose to be improvements coming. The trouble is the unionist council who try to lobb money from the education allocation. Not spend it on education.
OT totally
Jeez, wife who watches these programs just telling me about “pigging”. What a nasty world we live in.
Snippets from the National:
Carolyn Leckie … … ‘’Theresa May deserves a real P45. Not because of her awkwardness on the public stage, but because of the damage and destruction to people’s lives over which she has presided. Eighteen people die every day under her watch after being ‘declared fit for work’ and denied Employment and support Allowance.’’
‘West Dumbartonshire’s flying the Catalonian flag.’
‘Three contenders are being tipped for promotion to the Cabinet, including Jo Johnston, BoJo’s brother.’ You could’nae make it up.
……………………………..
Mhairi Black’s most down to earth, concise and sensible anti-Trident argument. She’s like a teacher attempting to educate a bunch of kids. No wonder individuals like Rees-Mogg think she’s brilliant. A breath of fresh air in that mouldering, corrupt hole on the Thames. I can’t wait to see people like her return to Scotland .. to Holyrood or going on to represent us in the EU/UN.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thVc6U25gOI
Bercow giving the SNP a lengthy lecture for Ian Blackford speaking in a debate then leaving after speaking…jolly bad behaviour…rank discourtesy and rude to “speak and leave”…
Bercow must have missed folk walking in front of Ian yesterday when speaking then huh ?
Fuckong wee tory weasel.
@ yesindyref2 says at 1:26 pm …. ”Jeez, wife who watches these programs just telling me about “pigging”. What a nasty world we live in.”
Don’t tell me David Cameron’s back on the scene.
Telegraph ” If the EU doesn’t want to play ball, Britain needs to get ready for a clean Brexit “
The full article is of course behind a paywall. However, that headline seem straight out of the Hard Brexiteers’ fantasy world which the rest of us just can’t comprehend.
Firstly, how can the EU play ball when the UK have burst the ball and buried it at an unknown location on Hampstead Heath?
Secondly, ‘clean’ is probably short for clean break. However it hardly seems appropriate for an outcome which will be very messy and damaging.
And of course thirdly, a ‘clean break’ / outside the single market income will certainly result in IndyRef2, and quite possible an Irish reuninification ref. I wouldn’t be so sure it will ‘Britain’.
Good grief, just seen a reply on SGP that scotlandvotes is even better than electoralcalculus with that mysteriously hidden yougov Westminster full Scottish poll. SNP 46. Gains and who from:
Aberdeen South SNP Labour
West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine SNP Con
Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk SNP Con
Dumfries and Galloway SNP Con
East Dunbartonshire SNP LibDem
East Lothian SNP Labour
Edinburgh North and Leith SNP Labour
Edinburgh West SNP LibDem
Paisley and Renfrewshire South SNP Labour
East Renfrewshire SNP Labour
SNP Bad 🙁
LOL
Re. the New Right, Trump and the UK’s exit from the EU.
https://research.hks.harvard.edu/publications/getFile.aspx?Id=1401 (opens a pdf)
Wha’s like us?
‘Mhairi Black storms SNP conference with rousing speech [Watch it here]’
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15587061.Mhairi_Black_storms_SNP_conference_with_rousing_speech__Watch_it_here_/
…………………………
‘Scottish Government meets its youth employment target four years early to place Scotland as among the most successful in Europe.’
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/10/10/scottish-government-meets-its-youth-employment-target-four-years-early-to-place-scotland-as-among-the-most-successful-in-europe/
…………………………
‘SNP pulling ahead again and Tories falling back to third place in Westminster voting intentions.’
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2017/10/10/snp-pulling-ahead-again-and-tories-falling-back-to-third-place-in-westminster-voting-intentions/
@Petra
MSM headline: “Mhairi Black in bid for Sturgeon’s job”.
You read it here first!
Mhairi Black telling it as it is, Jeremy Corbin just another lying unionist from “dowrn sowth”.
Don’t you just love when people, when talking about the uk gov, use the term “We”…!
Emm…naw Sensibledave, “we” are Scots who wish yo be independent from “YOU”.
@ yesindyref2 says at 1:58 pm … ”Petra … MSM headline:
“Mhairi Black in bid for Sturgeon’s job”. You read it here first!”
You just got in before me by a whisker, yesindyref2, lol.
OT. Apologies if these have been posted earlier today.
Home for a late break and found these two great speeches from the SNP Morning Conference today,Tuesday:
1.HUMZA YOUSAF MSP. Scottish Government Minister for Transport and the Islands.
Begins at 49:47 minutes [just scroll].
2.MHAIRI BLACK MP begins at 1:04:39 immediately following Humza.
http://tinyurl.com/y8bpzcar
Watch any of the news channels when they refer to the SNP this constant mantra, of course they ( SNP) lost seats so not so sure about Independence now ! .
What a load of guff that should have been well and truly buried ages ago, and by the people who have access to the media, I think it was touched on this morning by Mhairi Black but can’t find a link to watch,
The Unionist block Lost , there is no other interpretation of the result, despite it being a Westminster election they campaigned on a second referendum a re-run of 2014 , and they lost, all SNP spokespeople need to get this across, never mind the agenda of the questioner interrupt get it in, be aggressive get what you want to say over or walk,
God I’m SO, SO proud of the people we have representing us and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the BritNat politicans who sit in Holyrood (and Westminster) must be absolutely green with envy.
Rees-Mogg, blowhard, giving them their due.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFpGJP9GACk
@ Robert Graham says at 2:19 pm …” I think it was touched on this morning by Mhairi Black but can’t find a link to watch.”
At 1:56pm and 2:16pm Robert.
Oh and Nicola on at 3:00pm on BBC2 (2 hours in all).
Waiting for Nicola to address the SNP conference and that nice Mr Oliver comes on with Coast.
The BBC are so good at what they do that a toddler could see their “subtle” propaganda.
Oh dear! How soon can we stop paying for this?
From Rev’s retweetered twitthing “Congratulations to @DouglasDaniel on his well-deserved election as Political Education Convener.”
Good grief, more SNP Bad, and the news gets worse.
Well done Douglas!
@Famous15 2:51pm
Individually you can stop today.
“Lamb Pilaf is great.”
Is that Edith Pilaf’s brother, Greannach? They say he’s hot stuff.
Sylvester Stallone was the best Rimbaud I’ve ever seen, btw.
OK, OK, I’m going…
“Peter McCulloch @ 1012″ ” I don’t see the Tories being stupid enough to call a General election before 2022″. The Tories might well call a General election if our FM sets a date for Indyref 2 if they think that the union could be lost. Corbyn will be the ” last card” to be played by the establishment to save the union with ” promises on the single market and customs union ” and of course the usual ” Devo super turbo charged ultra max” as part of ” vow2″.
If the Tories think they can get away with ” hard Brexit”, ” power grab” and ” keep Scotland chained”
then they will think that they have ” won the lottery” .
A General election will take place if they think an independence vote is ” on the cards”
10 October, 2017 at 2:19 pm
Watch any of the news channels when they refer to the SNP this constant mantra, of course they ( SNP) lost seats so not so sure about Independence now ! .
Listening to the BBC r4 gimp network news is even worse.
Sarah Smith a such a sneaky character, explaining this morn to Today show tory voters, how Scots have stopped voting SNP because the SNP have been going on and on about independence for the last two years.
It makes you keep asking over questions of the pathology of these staggering beeb gimp frauds, like Smith, monstering Scottish democracy.
If they do get a yoon Holyrood in 2021, and they are clearly giving it everything they’ve got now, a five year BBC Scotland rule by propaganda, we are all going to be so royally fcuked.
Whos’s got a working link for conference
Here you go Ronnie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skBGvJICZzE
Looks like Davis and his negotiators no longer feel it’s even worth turning up at the negotiations!
{Shrug}
http://archive.is/zTKht (text only)
Why is BBC not letting us hear SNP Conference speakers?
Unlike London Parties, no coverage to-day on Parliament Channel
Loving it.
Yoons be frothing.
Oh my days…Nicola starts by producing a box of strepsils…!!! Poorless !!
Yesindyref2 says at 2:54 pm
From Rev’s retweetered twitthing “Congratulations to @DouglasDaniel on his well-deserved election as Political Education Convener.”
Does anyone know who was elected to SNP NEC?
WOW! Surprises all round.
Power to the people Scottish power company. Well done Nicola.
Droppers in from Darn Sarf watching this must think they are dreaming.
Nicola doing brilliant of course, and generous to let Angus announce there will be indyref2.
Angus Robertson: “There are 1,300 and some days until the next Scottish parliamentary election. And there will also be a referendum on Scottish independence.” #SNP17
@North chiel
The calling of an early general election may well be a possibility, but it would be political suicide for Tories especially with May as their leader.
Though I don’t doubt for a moment the British establishment would see and use Corbyn as the saviour of the union with the promise of Devo max, federalism or what ever else they could dream up to buy a sufficiently large section of the people of Scotland off.
I have never underestimated the depths the unionists won’t sink to.
@Petra
10 October, 2017 at 1:13 pm
The suggestion of a NAFTA trade deal tells us that the Tories are certainly running out of options.
Obviously they have believed this claptrap about the special relationship with US, and weren’t listening or didn’t understand what Trump meant when he said America first!
But this idea that they could waltz out of the EU and the rest of the World would come running to the UK to offer them fantastic trade deals was always the stuff of fantasy
But then Labour are just as bad they haven’t a clue either,
They have peddled this is nonsense about leaving the EU and creating jobs.
Nana thanks again for the link , you should adopt the name ( Nana links dot com ) Ha Ha .
Again many thanks your work does not go unnoticed.
Carrell lying again. 55% of people go to uni in Scotland. One of the highest level in the world.
More public universities pro rata than anywhere in the world.
5Million – 15 Universities (+ Colleges) .
30% go from school. 25% go as mature students. This mature student figure is totally let out of the equation. Life long learning. BBC ignorant idiots. If more than 20% of mature students come from poorer backgrounds. (Highly likely). That higher % would be added to nos of those from the 30%. Ie those who come from poorer backgrounds. There would be no attainment gap. The same proportion % from poorer backgrounds and wealthy backgrounds. Would be near even. The gap of the 30% who go to University from school. The attainment gap is 14% at present, but any higher gap in the 25% of mature student is not factored in. It is ignored. 18% of households were in relative poverty. Under the Tories it is now 20%.
Absolute poverty households are 10%? One of the biggest ways to end up in poverty (50% ) is through, drink/drug addiction. People end up not be able to work or in prison. £100,000 Million a year is spent on alleviating poverty. £400,000 a year is spent alleviating ‘bed room’ tax. Total £1/2Billion. Why are vulnerable, hungry people stealing minuscule amounts of food put in cells. Why are they not taken to the Salvation army. or given a meal and found a bed. No wonder police costs are so high. To would be cheaper putting them up in a B & B and social services give some support or information. Make sure they are getting money available for them. Why does it take 4 massive cops to put a tiny vulnerable person in cells overnight. What a waste of time and money.
Why don’t Police put up a fund. To assist vulnerable people Give them a taxi home. Or take them to the Salvation Army. Or give them a B & B place overnight, with information where to get help in the morning. Even if it was a fund where people could also contribute. It would free up their duties and cost less.
Check you facts BBC wankers 6,000 voters in NE did not vote because it was raining. They will the next time. BBC Liars. Dunces.
What the are you on about. SNP is the only Party ever who has got 50% of the vote. It wins everything. No mention of the PR electoral system – wankers. There would no opposition there under FPTP.
Little Unionists snitches.Ruth Davidson performing well back down to 1/3 and will go lower. The Greens let her in.
Carrell is too ignorant and lazy to spend 5 -10 minutes on the internet. To check the facts. Ignoramouses. Away and boil yer heir. Repeating the same regurgitated lies. Over and over again. Read the script. Does not make it true.
McKay STV hanging about. Waiting for his self appointed moments. To peddle nonsense.
Conference was on Parliamentary Channel. Red button From 2.30 pm (lunch break) Nicola on BBC 2 – 3pm.
Excellent speech. That’s very heartening certainly for me.
Big Brian and McWhirter now to pick over the entrails on BBC2… can’t wait hear how they get to SNP bad. 🙂
Oh wait! They have started to dampen down expectations already.
Who is that gibbering nonsense peddler. Reading regurgitated script over and over again. Boring. Boring Carrell. Goodness he has been saying the same thing for over ten years. He should pay his B & B bill. It might be more lively asking why he bounces his cheque getting digs for nothing.
Brian the bore again.
@call me dave
I think between Angus Robertson’s contribution and the FM’s speech, that’s pretty much a wrap. A fair old list of policy announcements there and the not for profit energy statement rightly bringing the house to its feet.
Also… Heh! So much for self determination and independence not being discussed at conference. 😀
@ Nana Thanks Mrs just in the nick of time that bloody F/B link playing up Virgin media a shower of Bs
Amazing to look at the resentment on Yoon media about getting cheaper electricity and more help with child care costs. They are full of hate to the extent they cannot think rationally.
Just incredible.
Hate they should learn, has only one outcome. It is inevitably the destruction of the hater.
Just saw something about possible NAFTA deal post-Brexit.
Odd. I thought Trump was trying to or threatening to renegotiate the existing deal because he thought it was a bad deal for USA
https://www.thebalance.com/donald-trump-nafta-4111368
Don’t think Canada and Mexico are too happy.
Aye! What has the SNP ever done for me! 🙂
I’ve been in the doldrums for months (funerals and poor health) but that has lifted my depression today.
PS:
Jobs worth at No 10 says …. “Er! I think you might want to see what that woman North of the wall has said PM”.
Nicola brilliant as usual and never seems to have to look at any notes, like ALL of the others.
And if you didn’t see it she outlined one progressive policy after another such as setting up a publicly owned, not for profit, energy company. Highlighted one issue after another that we should feel proud of such as having the best A&E service in the UK. Scotland with the most powerful tidal energy potential in the world (nae wonder they want us). Got right into Davidsons, racist, sectarian ribs. The Tories dreadful treatment of the poor and disabled, as per the UN. Mentioned Norways $1 trillion oil fund. The one that we should have. Defended Catalonia and castigated the EU on their stance. Discussed climate change .. not just down to Bute House but the White House too. Warned the Councils that if they don’t spend the money awarded to them re. house building the money will be taken from them and given to Councils that will do. An even greater warning was given to Westminster to keep their hands off of our Parliament etc, etc, etc.
And no doubt in my mind that once again as soon as the Brexit deal is made clear we’ll be going for it.
In a bit of a rush folks, but that’s a few pointers. Others will no doubt elaborate further.
Catalan President Puigdemont, heads to the parliament, and prepares for his 6pm address.
At the same time Catalan farmers flood Barcelona with their tractors, in an attempt to defend it if necessary.
Ken500 says:
10 October, 2017 at 1:15 pm
@ Legerwood
Yer a star.
………………….
At last – recognition Yay.
I see my Petro-Scotland brainwave has suddenly got legs.
I think the debt and to Progress is great, and sits well with the announcements. We aren’t waiting, we are getting ready, that’s what folk need to hear.
Letting Angus say we will have a referendum just confirms what’s been said, and takes heat off Nicola, to show her in light of moving forward on economy.
Don’t know how anyone can find fault, but they will anyway.
Supposed to be rebrand to Progress
Euro news ch 620 for Catalonian announcement
“A controversial referendum saw mass protests and violence between national police and demonstrators”
This is how stupid the BBC thinks we all are. In their twisted world armed paramilitary police attacking defenceless pensioners becomes “violence BETWEEN national police and demonstrators”!
Pathetic.
Fabulous speech, clear, concise, progressive and leaves no doubt that the SNP SG are a force and a half.
Ruk viewers must wish they could vote SNP at a WM election.
Breaking***
Catalan president speech delayed for one hour.
Plenty for the SNP Scottish Gov to be getting on with pre brexit. Public Owned Electricity Company is a vote winner & should be brought into being post haste . Scottish Power yer teas oot .
Nicola’s speech was spot on and earned several standing ovations – not just self-congratulatory applause – but a welcome for tangible policies that we can all subscribe to.
Scottish Investment Bank
public not for profit power company
30 hours childcare
no Council tax for care leavers
free sanitary products for those in education
fracking ban
trial of a basic income scheme
support for the people of Catalan
and many more
Just the right speech to energise the party members and refocus on the future.
@Petra 4:50pm
“And no doubt in my mind that once again as soon as the Brexit deal is made clear we’ll be going for it.”
You could well be right, Petra.
” Peter McCulloch @ 0400pm”,
1st paragraph .Yes Peter that is the price that the Tories would be
prepared to pay to save the ” precious precious ” union.
2nd Paragraph and probably single market access &customs union
would be promised
God your heart goes out to them right now. They’ll have to call UDI. No turning back now and if they do it looks as though they’ll be arrested, their Parliament taken over and god knows what else to the people themselves.
Whatever happens remain calm Catalonians. Don’t fall into the reactionary ‘violence’ trap. More and more EU leaders / MEPs are calling for dialogue to commence.
Nicola didn’t beat about the bush with regard to this subject and just put so many others to shame. Let’s hope the individuals in question were listening to her.
1)Anybody else being drawn to the argument that part of the attraction of doing a hard brexit for the unionist is the thought that the resulting clusterfeck might discourage a vote for yes if indyref2 happens.
Better the clusterfeck you know…..
2)We should not forget there is a downside to our encouragement of economic immigration as presented in the NS speech.
Just as people would argue that the ’emigration’ of talented young Scots to England harmed this country –
http://archive.is/ckHfW
I watched NS on periscope but had BBC2 on in the background. BBC made her look green!
However on periscope she looked fresh faced and confident.
Couldn’t fault her speech. Inspiring is the word. Angus Robertson,s speech was also uplifting.
Really enjoyed the whole three days.
Watching Euronews where the Catalan president has postponed his address for an hour. Junker is there. Wonder what he is saying. Probably trying to get Independence postponed!
https://infacts.org/brexiters-trade-dreams-going-smoke/ Just in case its not been posted before
Trump losing 170mil euro of his investment in Scotland . Couldn’t happen to a better person FIRE SALE FIRE SALE or bring on Arthur Negus Going for ah Song LoL .
galamcennalath @ 12:24 pm
Peter McCulloch @ 4:00pm
Legerwood @4:39pm
Regards NAFTA, do any of you have an actual link to that story?
I find it strange as well as bizarre that the UK government would contemplate wanting to be a member of the North America Free Trade Association, but then again, given their stupidity and lack of knowledge, wouldn’t be surprised
Ta
Catalan parliament live feed
http://www.euronews.com/2017/10/10/watch-live-catalan-leader-makes-highly-anticipated-address-to-parliament
O/T
Hi folks….not had a broadband connection since Fri 29th Sep.
Two {2) Open Reach engineers … one misallocated phone number
and the totally non-necessary purchase of a new router LATER (it was a network /exchange problem)…I am back online.
Catalan’s Puigdemont about to speak.
Catalonian government about to make announcement, my word the BBC commentary just had to mention session and Scotland. BBC the anti-Scottish broadcasting Britnat propaganda station.
Secession or not secession ?
Geeo @1.31
I heard that report about the reprimand of the leader of the SNP at WM for walking out during the PM’s speech.
Apparently that was a shocking thing to do, because he had asked a question and is supposed to listen to the whole statement before leaving…
An SNP spokesman said later that they had asked in advance if Ian Blackford could leave early and it was a pity that the Speaker did not seem to acknowledge the annual conference of WM’s 3rd largest party.
Just for the record -and I’m not defending him- the Speaker DID reprimand the Member for N. Leicester(?) for walking across Blackford while he was speaking yesterday.
Old Pete…6-15pm
Take it you meant ‘secession’ Pete?
Here is link to headlines, but a link through to the full thing also.
https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_s_conference_speech_what_you_need_to_know
@Edward
On the Telegraph. Can’t archive. Easily found.
“Joining Nafta could be one of the biggest post-Brexit trade deals we do “
O/T
Understandably…Puigdemont has NOT declared Independence.
BBCSarah Smith yer no better than you should be “the SNP decided for the time being to remain part of the UK”
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Speech on Euronews cutting out. On Al Jazeera.
Anyone struggling with other links, this one works
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1MnGnmwPLlLKO
@meg, it was a point of order raised by a tory twat (philip davies).
Bercow spent a long time berating the SNP.
He had advance notice of Ian leaving earlier, but said that was not acceptable. In fact, he stated that if a member had a prior engagement as Ian clearly had, the member should cancel such an engagement in favour of being in the house.
Cancel conference huh…what a twatt.
Edward @ 6.06 pm
The most recent iteration of this NAFTA story seems to come from the Daily Telegraph today
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-nafta/britain-could-join-nafta-if-it-fails-to-get-brexit-trade-deal-telegraph-newspaper-idUSKBN1CF18K?il=0
It does seem to be mentioned back in January this year by Bloomberg
He’s declared UDI.
Oh apologies folks I don’t know what’s going on. I may have got that wrong.
He’s suspended UDI.
Here’s Reuters on the Telegraph’s UK/Nafta possibility.
http://archive.is/0J0H4
If that came about it would certainly make a perfect storm of economic clusterfeckery.
Bye, bye NHS for a start.
It would probably be easier just to announce we were applying to become a new state of the union
Catalans bottle it. Pathetic.
Puigdemont, suspends initiating independence, for dialogue with the Spanish government.
geeo @ 6-32pm
Absolutely!…Indeed…why has the Commons re-convened whilst the THIRD largest party (by MP representation) and the Green Party have only TODAY concluded their own party conferences.What a display of utter contempt for the Scottish electorate.
The Aljazeera feed was the best:
http://www.aljazeera.com/
He has declared that Catalonia should be an indeoendent state. he also says thy will suspend action to allow for dialogue. Seems reasonable.
Thanks all for the ‘NAFTA’ story
It appears to have come from the moron Liam Fox, someone who is a sandwich short of a picnic
UDI is DEFINATELY SUSPENDED.
Apologies for raising your blood pressure folks.
There must be millions of extremely disappointed Catalonians tonight but to be honest I think he’s done the right thing. Dialogue and then another shot at it hopefully.
As I understand it Catalunia is the world’s newest Country. UDI but suspended for 2 weeks pending (don’t all laugh at once) talks with Madrid.
Report per STV news. Probably more later.
Severin Carrell is a piece of work. Snidey little shit. Making out the snp’s reputation is ‘battered’ and that Nicola is making a ‘populist’ move with state owned ‘cheap’ electricity to shore up the party’s confidence. And that is was Labour’s ‘idea’ they’ve ‘stolen’
Is there nothing wanks like him won’t sink to make an SNP good story into SNP bad?
Rhetorical of course.
Puigdemont delays UDI to talk to Madrid. Hoping for quiet word with EU?
Well I don’t feel so bad now. Just hearing that the Spanish TV announced UDI and then said no suspended.
David McDowell @ 6-42pm
How dare you!…you probably want to sack Gordon Strachan as well…don’t you…you’re the pathetic one.
Didn’t Nicola play a blinder?
Who in their right mind would Vote for their bills to go back under the control of a profit making company?
Well I know there’s that 30% but I did say in their right mind.
There’s no chance that Westminster will promise that Scotland can keep it’s publicly owned power companies for a no vote,and they are never putting that in place for England.
Statements taken from BBC Website:
The Catalan leader says he wants to send Spaniards who may be concerned about the independence push “a message of serenity and respect and a will of dialogue”.
“We are not mad… we are not rebels, we are just normal people who want the vote,” he says.
“We have nothing against Spain – it’s the opposite, we want to have a better understanding.”
“We asked 18 times,” Mr Puigdemont says. “All we wanted was a Scottish-style referendum where both sides were able to put their views forward. We were denied, time and time again.”
“The ballots say Yes to independence this is the will that I want to go forward with,” Mr Puigdemont tells parliament.
“At this historical moment as the president of Catalonia, I want to follow people’s will for Catalonia to become an independent state.”
“Today I assume the mandate for Catalonia to become an independent state in the form of a republic,” says Mr Puigdemont.
But he adds: “We’re suspending the declaration of independence for a few weeks, because we want a reasonable dialogue, a mediation with the Spanish state.”
The hope is that Rahoy cannot now take such extreme reaction as a result of this speech.
Brave man – let’s hope Rahoy is pressurised to accept dialogue and a genuine referendum…
The Catalans have achieved their main goal from the referendum and now have a big advantage over Spain – simply by offering dialogue.
Spain are now under huge national and international pressure to change course.
Being a bit selfish – this is a very good outcome for us in Scotland. Blood on the streets of Barceona would not help our cause.
I feel good tonight because the independence movements in Catalonia and Scotland, after Nicola’s speech are no the ascendancy. Off for a fish supper.
Petra @ 18:48,
I agree with you – he’s done exactly the right thing. An excellent speech from start to finish.
Including an appeal to the EU, saying that the Catalan independence movement believe in the dialogue the EU have been requesting, and have consistently done so throughout. The ball is well and truly in the Madrid government’s court now.
And the EU’s. EU representatives have collectively to back up their fine words now. (Maybe that’s what the 1hr delay was about.)
There’s already talk of an international mediator, but it’s not at all clear yet who may be involved. (I just hope it doesn’t include you-know-who.)
Catalonia are pulling back from UDI, good luck to them negotiating with the Spanish government seems unlikely to achieve much.
What will the EU do now, this is a defining moment they need to show their worth.
If the Tories say again “now is not the time” will Scotland’s new Independence referendum with our YES result be forced into a fight with the English(UK) government ? We will not be seceding, we will be leaving a union of two nations hardly the same.
Still interesting times.
RTs take on Catalonian President’s speech – more positive than BBC and reports Rajoy’s intransigent attitude:
https://on.rt.com/8phl
K1 @ 18:51,
I welcome your great restraint over Sevvy. =grin=
How anyone could turn that brilliant move by Nicola for a non-profit-making electric supplier into some kind of bitter accusation of a “steal” from Corbyn just exposes him even more starkly as the total laughing-stock he has become.
It’s the other way round. Corbyn has been stealing policies from the SNP ever since he’s been leader. Always one step behind. (Not nukes yet, though, note, the hypocrite.)
Sevvy can take a hike, the squit. Who gives a damn any more for what he thinks? He’s nothing more than an obvious and increasingly irrelevant BritLab apologist.
Liz g…6-57pm
She did indeed Liz.x
Puigdemont’s cagey speech shouldn’t be condemned, especially with Spanish gunships sitting in the harbour and a cruise liner full of Guardia Civil paramilitaries just waiting for the nod from Rajoy.
Lol, you can almost see raging Yoons, lying in bed tossing and turning, ‘go with Nicolas great non profit energy company and save thousands, or stay with British Gas and let them rip me a new one’.
Spanish government considers Puigdemont’s speech to be a declaration of independence and is preparing to respond.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CatalansForYes?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwingsoverscotland.com%2Fheres-to-you-mr-robinson%2Fcomment-page-1%2F%23comments
Petra,
“I’ve been having trouble with my Internet connection for days now. Off for hours on end on then on again for a couple of hours. Engineers looking into it but seem to be getting nowhere.”
For heaven’s sake don’t transfer your internet problems to the owner of this blog.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says (to Petra):
6 October, 2017 at 11:09 am
(“Have I Got Evasion For You”)
“I’m going to say this one last time and then, with the very greatest of reluctance, I’m going to ban you for NOT FUCKING LISTENING.
DO.
NOT.
POST.
THE.
SAME.
COMMENT.
REPEATEDLY.”
Regarding the prospect of the UK seeking to join NAFTA, this may be of interest in gauging how Labour in Westminster might react. (But of course we cannot rely on it!)
Below is an extract from Jeremy Corbyn’s response on trade deals during an interview (dated 21 June, 2016) with (the wonderful!) Amy Goodman and her US-based news organisation, DemocracyNow.org.
(Source: https://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/21/jeremy_corbyn_why_i_am_voting )
“I’ve just done a question-and-answer session with a group of young people, and I brought the issue of TTIP into it and drew the parallel with the North Atlantic Free Trade Association, which has been so damaging to working-class interests in the USA and Mexico, and so beneficial to a number of very big corporations. I suspect TTIP will be exactly the same, because it will impose on both sides of the Atlantic the worst aspects of deregulation from both economies. And the opposition to TTIP, I know it’s big in the United States, particularly from the labor movement in the United States. It’s also very big in Europe from trade unions, but also from environmental groups and many other social justice groups. We’re campaigning for a remain (in the EU) vote.”
So, while within the EU, many across the UK, including in Scotland, campaigned successfully (so far) against TTIP only to be faced potentially with a Tory government looking to take the UK into something like NAFTA. Except, Trump needs to ensure that the existing NAFTA and anything like it in future is re-framed to be much more beneficial to the biggest economic entity i.e his USA.
Labour in Scotland need to wake up! Its not only the creation of new trade deals for a post- Brexit UK that is important to the citizens of Scotland,and its not just how quickly they can be concluded by Liam Fox etc. but – for the VERY long term – it is the details of the deals that a Westminster government signs up to that will be crucial. Scotland within the UK will have zero influence on how these deals are framed.
Andy B …7-17pm
Not good news…I’m wondering if Rahoj was going to do this irrespective.
Don’t be surprised if Rajoy has them all arrested anyway. How smart will Puigdemont’s speech look then?
Petra,
“@ Rock at 7:30pm …….. “The likes of you have no respect at all for the owner of this site.”
Well thanks for that Rock, you just did me a favour (not that that was your intention of course), as I actually missed that message which was posted on another article.”
It is not that you didn’t know before:
Rev. Stuart Campbell says (to Petra):
6 October, 2017 at 11:09 am
(“Have I Got Evasion For You”)
“You do it over and over again. I don’t know how many times I have to say it.”
Tossing and turning, sweating and groaning, Brexiters scream out in their sleep, “We’ll join NAFTA!”
If Madrid reacts to Catalonia’s offer of talks in any way other than peacefully and constructively the EU and UN must get involved.
Advantage Catalonia at the present.
Rock @ 19:38,
You mean like you are doing, you pathetic little would-be bully and rank hypocrite?
Your “contributions” are increasingly corrosive and irrelevant. Furthermore, all they have achieved is to turn yourself into a pathetic laughing-stock. A figure of fun. A waste of space.
If you cared even a whit about independence, you would turn off your relentless and repetitive negativity and go do something positive (a definite challenge for you, I know) somewhere else.
To save regular Wingers the bother and pain, I just took a look at the btl comments on The Scotsman’s website’s piece on Nicola’s speech.
There are some serious fruit loops going seriously ape-shit on there, I fear for the mental well-being of most of them.
Do not go there, it could be seriously-damaging to your mental health.
Ken500,
“Less Calanalonian came out to vote. Must have not cared about bottling it. 43%.”
You must have been on another planet when the fascist Spanish state used brute force to stop Catalonians from voting and stole the ballot papers.
Hi Petra – hope that connection gets sorted, always interesting the comments you make.
We can measure the success of today’s speeches by the deafening level of British nationalist desperation in the MSM.
Thus a very good day for Scotland.
Latest headlines….
“Theresa May refuses to say if she would vote for Brexit in fresh poll “ – The Guardian
“Brussels warns Brexit talks heading for point of no return “ – Financial Times
“Theresa May refuses to say how she would vote in second EU referendum “– The Independent
“Brexit: Home Office will ‘struggle to cope’ with challenges, says former official “ – The Independent
“Brexit news: Theresa May’s response to how she would vote in another referendum “ – Daily Express
That’s a bit of a change from jingoism about leaving without a deal in the last 24hours! Now contemplating another EURef and worrying that they can’t cope with a crash out Brexit.
Could it just be that they want the negotiations to fail so they can then say that no deal would be too disastrous and they want to step back from the brink? As others have said that could be easily arranged by having another general election with Corbyn winning. And they could save the Union too.
Mad as box for frogs. Who knows what they are up to!
@Dan Huil
Pretty much. 🙂
@Edward says: 10 October, 2017 at 6:48 pm:
“Thanks all for the ‘NAFTA’ story
It appears to have come from the moron Liam Fox, someone who is a sandwich short of a picnic”
No! No! No! Edward – it was a typo – it should have read The UK is going to join the NAFFI, (Navy, Army and Air (Force Institutes).”
I’ll get my coat.
Hi Rock at 7:38 pm.
You, once again, have pasted Rev Stu’s last comment on the
https://wingsoverscotland.com/have-i-got-evasion-for-you/
page.
However, you never type that YOU added a comment after Rev Stu’s. Why could that be – that you don’t think your comment was worthy?
Or could it be that Rev Stu lost patience with you and decided that you would NOT have THE LAST WORD on that particular page and deleted your post?
Rev Stu does not delete posts lightly. You must have really p!$$€d him off. The fact that you are still being allowed to post comments shows that the Rev has an easy hand on the tiller. I guess you’re sailing close to the wind though.
Rock, you have now become a joke. Time to retire…
Petra.. What Paula Rose says @ 7.53
Espically since your a bit of a night hawk as well.
Look…..we’re all trying to invigorate the Puis……whatever.He had to do it…if he didn’t …cIVIL wAR…AND MANY Scottish SOLDIERS!
Sturgeon proposes cheap, state-owned energy for Scotland
Populist policy for the party that lost seats. 🙂
The Guardian.
https://archive.is/sG8rr
Dan Huil says:
10 October, 2017 at 6:53 pm
Puigdemont delays UDI to talk to Madrid. Hoping for quiet word with EU?
Already had a word. Juncker had talks with Puigdemont today. Time will tell whether progress can be made, but I feel certain bloodshed has been avoided, at least in the short term.
Very positive about the SNP for once. Not even going to mention the ‘S” word.
Good thought provoking initiatives, and a sense that spirits are raised.
I’m stuck paying for mobile broadband to watch speeches online, so I’m reading them, not watching them, and probably missing out on a lot.
I’m a little reassured about Europe, but only a little. I wish I’d heard Alyn Smith’s words, but heartening to see his conference event about Europe packed.
A lot of people have been very quick to condemn the EU over Catalonia, some genuine and heartfelt, some a tad opportunistic, but what I like about the EU is the swan principle; serene, aloof and deaf to criticism, but beneath the surface behind the scenes, paddling like billyo. Jean Claude Juncker perhaps helped Catalonia dodge a bullet today, quite literally, and I’m also in no doubt that the EU’s apparent eye watering support for Spain last week was symptomatic of a much smarter and switched on instinct for negotiations and dialogue than many gave the EU credit for. The EU “knows” Spain, and knows how to get Spain to talk, see sense, and agree to things.
Time will tell whether Jean Claude Juncker, Guy Verhofstadt and Michel Barnier have a Scottish dossier and political strategy in easy reach too, and the swan principle is also applicable to Scotland’s place in the EU too.
I’m a cynical git, but I trust Europe. I trust Europe’s capacity, influence and willingness to help Scotland escape the UK to a much greater extent and potency than anything EFTA can deliver. EU membership is not a thing to throw away lightly.
I cannot think of three individuals better placed to know the type of “clean break” exit negotiations that await Scotland as we try to break free from Westminster’s grip. Europe can help us, and I am sure given the chance, they will. Who is to say we won’t need some last minute shuttle diplomacy from M. Juncker to stay the hand of a desperate UK Prime Minister who won’t accept the loss of Scotland? If Scotland needs an intermediary, and we might, then the EU is much better equipped, better place, and experienced than anyone else I can think of.
I hope these things are happening below the surface, these talks and preparations are ongoing, and EFTA is more about posturing and a distraction from the actual main event. If, or rather when, Brexit talks collapse, I hope and pray that Scotland and the EU have rescue package on standby mode for all eventualities.
With all the spin the Express can muster to say otherwise, Brexit is beginning to look more and more ugly the closer it gets.
Yes indeed, in the world of Yoon and the Goblin media there’s a great wailing and a gnashing of teeth as they froth to and fro howling in annoyance at anyone who’ll listen to their cries of electoral hope slipping, Nay plunging from before their very eyes
New lies will have to be fabricated, twirly newspapers flown across our Telly screens filled with doom laden forecasts of Mahoosive tax rises for the poor to come or euthanasia clinics to be set up for NO voters and their elderly relatives to pay for Sturgeons unsubstantiated costings for cheap Leccy, it cannot pass ungrumbled
Jackie Bird at this moment is broomsticking back from her holiday home in purgatory to bring us the full lurid version of the Labour truth of the matter
What will we call it Jackie? let’s just call it LECCY MAX eh, and say the numbers just don’t add up and Derek McKay is going to use stealth bomber taxes that we’ll not notice to drain the very blood from Scotlands poor
That aught to do it…..Not!
@ Rock ……… “Don’t transfer your Internet problems to the owner of this blog.”
Here comes bully boy AGAIN. We’re all on here discussing the SNP Conference and the Catalonian situation but what are you doing? Your usual. As I’ve said previously you can separate the wheat from the chaff on here quite easily by counting their SNP Baad posts / trying to undermine genuine Independence supporters by comparing with numbers of informative Independence supporting posts or even a bl**dy joke or two.
And the following explanation is being outlined more for the benefit of other posters on here than you. The reference I made to my Internet problem related to, in the main, asking if others on here were experiencing a similar problem and explaining to some extent the reason for my delay in responding to them and YOU. When I read your post I checked out the article mentioned, read Stu’s post for the first time, emailed Stu and then responded to you and others.
Constant reposting had absolutely NOTHING to do with my Internet problem at all. I’ve been doing this for some time now not realising that certain words, too many links etc block posting. I’d no idea either of the massive problems it created for Stu.
Time for you to mind your own business (or are you a moderator/Stu’s right hand man?), slither back under your Rock and stay well away from me.
Better still what about telling us all what you made of Nicola Sturgeon’s fantastic speech today? Baad?
Oh, and while we’re on a roll, how about we recover some lost ground on Norway with a Capital Energy Fund for state owned Scottish Renewables?
Quite like the fact that Rajoy is raging because Catalan has sort of declared independence but just short of him being able to arrest the Catalan leaders and has kept the topic live for weeks to come.
The rest of Spain will have to get used to their police being on their holibags to Barcelona.
So how did the FM’s conference speech go today? There’s nothing about it anywhere front page online stinky old The Guardian.
Severin Carrell is unwell?
TeamGB hackdom’s a hoot right now:D
Ian Smart @ianssmart
·
19m
Replying to @KennyFarq
Except that according to one of her troops on @5liveSport it will be selling only renewable energy from Scotland. Who’ll can afford that?
first labour dig I’ve seen about scotland state energy
@Robert J. Sutherland says: 10 October, 2017 at 7:03 pm:
“Petra @ 18:48: I agree with you – he’s done exactly the right thing. An excellent speech from start to finish.
Including an appeal to the EU, saying that the Catalan independence movement believe in the dialogue the EU have been requesting, and have consistently done so throughout.”
Which was what I indicated would be the case when the Indy doubter Wingers were raging and claiming the EU, UN, Nicola, The SG and SNP were doing nothing about Spain’s violence against Catalonia’s indy supporters. For a starter the EU, (a democratic and consensus parliament), cannot act quickly on such matters.
Especially when the matters involve an EU Member State. All it takes for any such quick action to fail is for one member state to use its veto and whatever measure the EU legal advisors and EC are recommending the EU take is ended before it begins. The same goes for the UN.
When you are an organisation of many disparate member states it is more difficult than getting a simple majority that any dissenters would just either have to suck-up or resign as members.
However, long term history shows they usually do act correctly in the end but have indeed made a few grave decision errors.
Oh wait, found the Graun’s Severin coverage, very trolly, even for that crew of tory charlatans,
“Speaking to an emptier conference hall than usual, Sturgeon made clear her government had to prioritise new domestic policies in the short term, at the expense of preparing for another independence referendum. Many of her new policies echo the Corbynite agenda being pushed by Richard Leonard, the favourite to win the Scottish Labour leadership contest and a candidate, like Jeremy Corbyn, who is attracting pro-independence campaigners who previously voted for the SNP.”
So vote Anas, he’s the greatest:D
Aye agreed Robert J, what a tossbag he is. It’s the blatant desperation in the whole article, there is nothing of any substance in his insinuation…he must think we all button up the back. Ha! I’ve got a zip. 😉
@ Liz at 8:19pm …… Thanks for that Liz because I would probably have missed it X
@ Paula Rose at 7:53pm …. Another engineer came out today Paula Rose and found the fault just outside my house. What he found was highly unusual he said. Par for the course for me, lol. Thanks for the nice comment Paula. Your posts are always interesting too and one of the last ones you made gave me a right laugh. You need that on here at times! Tonight being one of them X
Rock I up till now have ignored your constant moaning ,denigration and downright abusive comments , never once contributing anything remotely supportive or progressive towards an indy Scotland , you epitomize divisiveness .
You have now turned your abuse towards Petra who has and continues to do more in 5 mins to forward the cause of independence than you will ever do with your hateful attitude
Anyone who can denigrate and abuse everyone’s friend Smallaxe deserves no quarter , go and join your real friends siu
bookie from hell @ 20:43,
His name belies his (lack of) political acuity.
But it certainly reflects very accurately how stung he feels after Nicola played that blinder over energy supply.
Bitter-and-twisted BritLab Northern Accounting Region girns again. No change there then. (As if!)
Ho hum.
Yeah Heed, given the conference usually ends on a Saturday or Sunday, and the keynote is delivered then….could it be because it’s a Tuesday that the hall wasn’t as full as it usually would have been?
Again…he’s taking people for idiots.
Petra,
“Time for you to mind your own business (or are you a moderator/Stu’s right hand man?), slither back under your Rock and stay well away from me.”
Your comment proves beyond any reasonable doubt how little respect, if any, you have for the owner of this blog.
If the likes of you and Robert Peffers think you are so clever, why don’t you start your own blogs?
As the Rev. Stuart Campbell told you:
“Your posts are enormously long, and when I get in and find 20 of them in the approval queue, all several screens high, I have to scroll endlessly up and down trying to work out which ones are new and which ones are the same ones posted five times in a row. It’s UNBELIEVABLY tedious and time-consuming and soul-destroying and I’ve FUCKING WELL TOLD EVERYONE NOT TO DO IT A HUNDRED TIMES.”
Claiming that you had missed the Rev’s comment, you have still not had the humility to apologise to him.
Just shows how arrogant and egoistic the likes of you are.
Well said twathater @8.51pm
@Old Pete says: 10 October, 2017 at 7:04 pm:
” … If the Tories say again “now is not the time” will Scotland’s new Independence referendum with our YES result be forced into a fight with the English(UK) government ? We will not be seceding, we will be leaving a union of two nations hardly the same.”
Which is what I’ve always pointed out, and not just on Wings, You cannot legally be, “seceding”, from a bipartite union. You can only legally end that bipartite union.
Which is not what the Westminster unionists, and their propaganda machine would have you believe. There can be no rUnited Kingdom when one of only two legal partner kingdoms decides to end the union.
They foster the twin ideas that the United Kingdom is either a union of more than two kingdoms or is really, in spite of both the Treaty Of Union and the Title, “United Kingdom”, a union of four countries that the country of England has annexed/conquered.
Just like their insistence that they are Britain: British they may be but Britain the ain’t.
If you’re in need of a UKOK laugh, Severin at his toryboy best tonight, Graun tory attack propaganda in all its creepy British glory,
http://archive.is/sG8rr
“It was one of a series of populist policies aimed at bolstering her party’s appeal to leftwing and rural voters.”
Haha! Good old Graun, stupid populist SNP, doing stuff what people want and need, why can’t Scottish voters just wake the fuck up and see what’s bad for them, vote SLabour, at the very least, its for their own good, even Colonel Ruth, its just not british…
Anyone can be a tory attack ligger:D
EH no 60/70% don’t bother to vote. Dummy,
They lead the life of Riley and don’t watch TV which is not Rey good in any see. Except for football/sports. There are too many other things to do. Socialising, fish, walking, vino, climbing, hiking cycling etc. 4 months holiday. Good food healthy lifestyle. Sunshine all year. You dumb feck.
Most of the, don”t give a damn or care about Indepenence. The average turnout for many of these votes is 30% + . Dummy. That is claimed as a 90% ‘s victory. They have taking the puss for years. Dummy. The wealthiest part of Spain politicians refusing to contribute to the Federal State. To help the poorer rural parts. £4Billion. Greedy low lives. The Federal Court even pasted a judgement ‘they did not have to contribute’.
There is higher support for Inependence. 50% in Scotland, Even after being told a heap of lies. False vows etc. Robbed blind and cheated for years. By pathetic Tory/Unionists. Lied and cheated by scumbags. Like you. Lowlife. You stinking little mason. The Indy Ref turnout was 85%. In Catalonia 43%. Half. They bottled it. The President is going to jail. Do not pass Go. Straight to jail. For totally manipulating the vote. To line their pockets. They knew the low turnouts and knew they were lying but still went ahead. Now waiting for everyone else to bail them out.
Everything the SNP has done has been on fantastic majority. Giving them a huge mandate. They are the only Party in the UK that have got 50% of the vote ever. They go to the people and take nothing for granted. Pure and strong. Really good smart people. Not corrupt. Carrying out their promises in really difficult dumb Tories circumstances. The SNP do what they have achieved, without fear or favour, because they have the total support and are funded by their members. When the Independence Ref is called the SNP/YES will win in.
Some people have been going for to Catalonia/Spin for years and have Spanish friends and know the lie of the land. Know the housing estate/agent problems. Political/Social/economic. It Is not as portrayed in the media. In CataloniaSpain or anywhere. Some of these people ripped off EU citizens and foreigners. Left them in dire straits or desperate situation In fraudulent holidayhome’s scams. With absolutely no comeback under the Laws.
Fraudulent bankers, lawyers and politicians, estate agencies some of them British. Pozzi borrowing from London lending markets. Along the Costas including Catalonia. Head of banks, corrupt lawyers, estate agents politicians went to jail. Politicians now denying all knowledge. People lost their pensions and life saving. In property which downgraded half. The Spanish as well. Banking scandals The EU had to prop them up. Giving Bank injections of loans and funding which had to be paid back. They had to reconciliate. Join banking groups together. People lost their money. There is not so much debt as US/UK. The highest in the world. Members in the Eurozone can’t get into much debt. To keep the member States stable. Without too much debt.
Spain is still a wonderful open country with great people. They just totally despise their politicians with a vengeance. They can’t stand them they are so corrupt, a fraudulent scandal every other week. (The low turnouts?) In Catalonia as well. Politicians making out they are the poor hard done victims. Not in this case. They need some regulation. Especially the antiquated legal system.
As UKOK liggers like the Graun’s run around trying to stamp out the SNP, compare, contrast, throw up, throw tantrums, vote tory, red or blue, it doesnt matter, just please stop voting SNP, Scotland belongs to England, ya bastards:D
From our imperial masters down south,
http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-refuses-to-say-eu-citizens-will-be-allowed-to-stay-in-britain-in-a-no-deal-brexit-2017-10
Theresa May says she ‘doesn’t know’ if EU citizens will be able to stay in Britain in a no-deal Brexit
Adam Payne
To
https://www.itv.com/news/2017-10-08/snp-eu-rights-scotland-brexit/
T 8 October 2017 at 4:49am
Sturgeon vows to help EU citizens stay in Scotland after Brexit”
Its just not british.
@ Rock,
You little shit. Feck off go and cause trouble somewhere else. You little toad. You little bastard.
Robert Peffers,
“For a starter the EU, (a democratic and consensus parliament), cannot act quickly on such matters.
Especially when the matters involve an EU Member State.”
Robert Peffers (7th April – “Unionist Manifesto Update”):
“Just let them try and NOT respect the results. The EU and UN would be on it like a flash as the Westminster Government has signed up to both of their treaties that specifically have written into them the human right of Self Determination.”
Rock,
“I can say with 100% confidence that the EU and UN would do absolutely nothing that would make us independent in such a scenario.
The unionists would boycott a referendum held without a section 30 order and we would almost certainly not get 50%+1 of the eligible electorate to vote Yes.
No one in their right mind wants to end up in such a scenario.”
You are now saying that the EU “cannot act quickly on such matters.”
In April you were boasting that “the EU and UN would be on it like a flash” if the UK government didn’t respect the results of Scotland’s “illegal” referendum.
Forget respecting the results, the EU and UN stood by as the fascist Spanish state used brute force to stop Catalonians from voting and stole the ballot papers.
Has the Spanish Government not “signed up to both of their treaties that specifically have written into them the human right of Self Determination”?
If you think it would be any different in Scotland, you are badly mistaken.
Ken500,
“Less Calanalonian came out to vote. Must have not cared about bottling it. 43%.”
Rock,
“You must have been on another planet when the fascist Spanish state used brute force to stop Catalonians from voting and stole the ballot papers.”
Ken500,
“@ Rock,
You little shit. Feck off go and cause trouble somewhere else. You little toad. You little bastard.”
The members of the Catalan Parliament are signing the Declaration of Independence of the Catalan Republic
https://twitter.com/lizcastro/status/917842488450342913
President @KRLS just signed the declaration of independence. The rest of pro independence MPs will follow
https://twitter.com/cataloniadirect/status/917842402546679808
They were queuing around the block for seats for over two hours. That is common. They did it for Alex Salmond as well. There is a lot of humour in the queues. Some people can’t believe them. There are sceens all around the venue as well.
Listening to Nicola\s complete speech on the BBC Scotland website (yes – amazing!).
Seems to me that hall is almost completely full. Many shots of the audience and haven’t seen an empty seat yet!
@heedtracker says: 9 October, 2017 at 7:38 pm:
“… Hard to know what they were trying to Project Fear their Scots viewer with more tonight, Catalonia, YES polls no change for 3 years, EU wont help any vile seps anywhere, lots of other EU members have vile sep Scottish style separatists too, so they really are dazed and confused and stuffed, our separatists Jon, arent they?
Nah! They are at their usual suppression of real facts. Just like their suppression of just how good the SNP are doing running Scotland. Just as they are suppressing the SNP Autumn Conference and the real status of the United Kingdom as a bipartite union that ends when one partner kingdom decides it is over and there cannot be an rUK.
Here is a list of what they call European separatist movements which are factually independence movements. However, (as a wee addendum), in Scotland’s case it is even more of a con to refer to us as, “Separatists”, for what we are actually doing is not separating from a larger state but ending a bipartite union in which we are legally a fully and equal sovereign partner.
(To Rock – dinna bother – we all know your idiotic mantra off by heat now).
heedtracker,
“Sturgeon vows to help EU citizens stay in Scotland after Brexit”
She means well, but Nicola has ZERO control over UK immigration policy.
As we have seen with the many deportations from Scotland.
After a “snap” Brexit, Scotland will be at the mercy of the Westminster government.
Hoy Rockface? When did Stuart hire you as his bloggyguard?
Leave Petra alone, you bullying little shit.
They gave been carrryihng on like that for years. Claiming great victories on low turnout. Even on other votes. GE elections, local elections. Where al the votes stolen on the Talonia watch – from each other. Aye right. Funny they never made these claims before? All of a sudden thousands of votes are missing.
How many times has Rock been to Catalonia/Spain as the official observer. Once or twice? How long has Rock lived in Catalonia/Spain and have friends/relatives there. A day? A week? A month? A year?
Get lost you stinking little Masonic Tory. Go back to the Lodge among the dinosaurs. You uncouth little C.
My LAST EVER post to you Rock. Apology? I emailed Stu this morning. What I said to him has absolutely nothing to do with you. Or do you want to email him and ask what I said? Post that on here?
If you don’t desist from contacting me I’ll email Stu and complain of online harassment.
I know I’ve replied to him folks but he’s trying to wreck what has been a good day on here with loads of fantastic posts to read through. Let’s not let him waste the rest of the night. More than anything that’s exactly what he wants.
You didn’t watch the conference did ye Rock. How did she propose to ‘help EU citizens in Scotland after Brexit’?
Your pish reveals your total ignorance of what she actually said. The policy our government will adopt is that if any EU nationals have to pay to stay in the country, the SG has committed to meeting all their costs.
That bypasses the ‘immigration’ aspect your fucking idiot. It wasn’t about ‘immigration’. It is about mitigation.
You are a complete fraud. No way are you a supporter of our government, you don’t even know the basics of the speech that our FM gave today.
Petra,
“Better still what about telling us all what you made of Nicola Sturgeon’s fantastic speech today? Baad?”
Are we having a second independence referendum before Brexit is completed?
Or are we going to wait until after the 2021 Scottish election when Scotland is at the mercy of Westminster?
You have zero control over anything. People can’t stand you. Johnny no mates. Go and get your apron on. Or have you been blackballed. Racist bigots can’t even stand you. You pathetic little moron, The Lodge has lost an idiot. Misogynist little prick.
Jings! Had a look on the BBC England Webby page btl on the Sturgeon story and there are enough trolls to populate the new Queensferry Crossing Bridge… just about 2000 comments, nearly all SNP bad.
Fair puts a spring in your step so it does. 🙂
Our neighbours eh! What are they like?
PS: Footie
Slovakia never made it to the play offs either they’re out as Ireland slips into their place from yesterdays result… I was told this morning but just had shortbread radio say so as well.
@ Nana at 9:15pm ….. “Signing the Declaration of Independence.”
Thanks for that Nana. Great stuff and good luck to them. It won’t be too long before we’re doing that too or whatever? Just rip up the Treaty of the Union, lol.
@ Petra – just ignore him. I like reading your posts – even when they are long. So keep on track and don’t let contrarians divert you.
It’s been a good day today listening to the speeches of Humza Yousaf, Mhairi Black, Angus Robertson and Nicola Sturgeon.
Also, Carles Puidgemont’s Declaration in the Catalan Parliament. Only wish we had the broadcasting facilities that the Catalns enjoy.
Archived from Revs twitter page:
Brexit:
Farmers’ Incomes Will Be Slashed By Half If ‘No Deal’ With Brussels, Study Finds
http://archive.is/mEhej
FELICITACIONS to the People of iCatalonia on the signing of your declaration of your independence! (temporarily suspended, nae worries, it happens to the best of us).
THEREAFTER suspension, it is written and signed, it’s becomes official.
The Catalonia Declaration of Independence 10th October 2017.
Your Si government are looking out for you.
It has been written.
A toast to you.
Visca aye!
Hi Rock.
In the words of Robert, the famous Dundee Tully seller, you are yesterday’s news. I was surprised that he knew of you. The word “prick” peppered his dialogue.
Your fame is as an @r$€.
No offence intended…
Jings! Had a look on the BBC England Webby page btl on the Sturgeon story and there are enough trolls to populate the new Queensferry Crossing Bridge… just about 2000 comments, nearly all SNP bad.
Its wild tonight in Facebook too, England’s not a fan of Scotland becoming er, a nicer place to live, at all. Its an odd country, merry olde England. Its also hard not to wonder just how much Scots money has been invested in an England that seems to be enraged by Scotland improving year after year.
Sarah Smith looked like a mad street drunk interviewing Sturgeon today but anyhoo…
https://www.snp.org/nicola_sturgeon_s_conference_speech_what_you_need_to_know
So, we’ve had the SNP conference.
What have we learned about the road to independence?
The SNP say they are committed to independence. That’s a step forward: they mentioned the I word. But then again the SNP is dead if they say indy is dead.
Credit to Ms Sturgeon, she criticised the EU’s ( lack of) response to the Catalonia situation. I believe what is most concerning is the police violence against peaceful citizens.
A Not-for-profit Scottish energy provider. That sparked my interest. But it may be a hot air scheme. Or will it be green electricity from wind turbines?
As for an indyref: the answer, my friend, is blowin in the wind. The answer is blowin in the wind.
Cannot believe so many good Wingers are still getting hooked.
Eye on the prize folks – save your energy for those who need your wisdom.
Ye need tae get another hobby @Rock this one’s no workin out well
Petra @ 21:28,
Nae worries, quine. He doesn’t have a single supporter on here, bar one or two other obvious wreckers, whereas you have lots. Me included.
He is well out of order on many fronts.
All attempts at deviations from what was a brilliant speech from Nicola, who is head and shoulders above shoogly and unsteady May, and makes pathetic Labourite media whingers like Sevvy look like the losers they truly are.
Brexit:
Farmers’ Incomes Will Be Slashed By Half If ‘No Deal’ With Brussels, Study Finds
Meh. Planet toryboy will look after the big money landowners, its how teamGB works, you kick up to the party, they look after you.
A very rich landowner just outside Dundee ploughed a huge NO into his hillside fields along the A96, 2014. Filthy rich tory dingdongs like him, know which side of the UKOK border his butter’s spread.
Of Course it wasnt the rich dude that did the actual ploughmanship of NO, and sorry about the terrible metaphor.
Rock’s gone rock n troll defcon 5, so I’m trying to smoke out the WoS btl dilettante prick spotter:D
Aye, it’s been a very good day indeed folks, with cracking speeches in a packed hall.
Then we get back to the usual nonsense BTL, patience running very thin with many of us. I see the night shift’s on now too.
But let’s just enjoy what we’ve all witnessed today. Progress. I like what I heard, if not what I’ve just read.
Ah huv tried to tell yeh. Ignore the obvious LOL.
Colin Alexander says:
10 October, 2017 at 9:53 pm
So, we’ve had the SNP conference.
What have we learned about the road to independence?
You yoons are a bit flat/hysterical today Colin A but,
Imagine the flow of jobs in to Scotland, if proud Scotbuts werent such proud Scot buts,
http://news.sky.com/story/unilever-shifts-uk-food-jobs-to-rotterdam-in-pg-tips-merger-11075581
There’s an endless stream of Jobs flowing out of England and into the EU now.
Renewables are our future growth industry – if it was up to Westminster we’d be mining uranium the long way round.
K1 @ 21:32,
Just a slight correction – and pardon the pedantry! – but what Nicola promised (if I recall correctly) was that the SG would mitigate any upcoming UKGov levy for any resident EU citizen working in the public sector.
To keep our health workers in place, for example.
But as she made very plain, there’s only so far we can go by way of mitigation (for anything, really).
I just wish the whinging NorthBritLabs in particular would recognise that. For their own credibility as much as anything.
Almost over 1,000 comments on this post.
This is gonna be the most ever commented on Cairnstoon.
Page 3 coming up.
FLASH!
Aye Robert Sutherland
Notice how the yoon media always avoid mentioning who the payment is made to.