The secret of teamwork
Dr Tim Rideout is one of the most serious and respected people in the Yes movement and the SNP. As convener of the Scottish Currency Group he’s presently engaged in trying to solve the party’s self-inflicted weakness over its lack of a coherent currency policy, and he’s sufficiently highly rated by SNP members that earlier this month he was elected to the party’s Policy Development Committee.
So you might think he was entitled to a view on, well, development of policy.
Yesterday Dr Rideout sent a polite email to the SNP’s MPs, advocating abstention on this week’s Brexit-deal vote (a view shared by this site) and making some constructive, sensible and rather uncontroversial suggestions on general European policy.
From: Tim Rideout
Sent: 28 December 2020 15:08
To: SNP MPs
Subject: Commons Brexit Vote – Just Don’t Attend – Hold an Alternative EU Policy EventHi,
I am sure thousands will be emailing you just now, but this is obviously an important symbolic moment.
To my mind by far the best option for the SNP MPs is to not dignify the Commons vote on 30th December with your presence. Your vote is entirely irrelevant to the result (unfortunately), but voting NO is not a vote of principle. If your votes might make a difference you would not vote NO and thus risk No Deal.
So just do not attend at all. Make the point that next to zero Scottish MPs have had anything to do with something that is not in any shape or form what their constituents want. Being present, even making speeches to an empty room, just allows the Tories to carry on maintaining that this is a UK decision rather than an English one.
You can go better than that, too. Hold a special event (on Zoom or similar) on Wednesday instead for all the SNP MPs on the subject of “The Transition to Independence – SNP Policy on EFTA / EEA and Re-joining the EU”. Take the results of your deliberations and send them to us in the SNP Policy Development Committee. We are currently setting up a Working Group on exactly this subject.
Personally I think the SNP policy should be: On Indy Day join EFTA / EEA to achieve a ‘Norway’ relationship with the EU. Within a year or so of Independence hold a referendum on whether Scots wish to apply for EU membership or not. If the answer to that is YES then commence discussions with the EU. That will take several years and the results are not fully predictable. If the negotiations result in an offer that is acceptable to Scotland then proceed to join, otherwise stay in the Norway position.
Negotiations might result in an unacceptable offer in areas such as Fishing, but also on what are probably more important economic issues. Those would include whether the idiotic 3% deficit rule of the No-Growth and Instability Pact is still in place and if there is any attempt to force (as opposed to present policy of being just ‘in principle’) Euro membership.
Regards
Tim
Lothians Member, SNP Policy Development Committee
Convener, Scottish Currency Group
We thought readers might like to see the response (addressed rather disrespectfully to “Mr Rideout”) that he got from Pete Wishart, who appeared not to know who he was. It was passed to us by one of the other addressees, not by Dr Rideout.
“From: WISHART, Peter
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 6:57 pm
To: Tim Rideout
Subject: Re: Commons Brexit Vote – Just Don’t Attend – Hold an Alternative EU Policy EventDear Mr Rideout
Thank you very much for your advice about how I should do my job and what I should do to represent my constituents. I have only being doing this for about 20 years and I don’t know how I have managed to be re-elected 6 times without your assistance.
If it’s OK with you, I will maybe just continue to put my constituents interests over and above what you think I should do on their behalf and make sure they are properly represented in one of the biggest decisions of this session of Parliament. Though, they like me, are no doubt grateful that you think you know better than I in how their interests should be looked after.
I also want to thank you for your suggestion about what the Scottish National Parties European policy should be. Call me old fashioned, but I have this naive belief that party policy should be determined by our membership.
This ‘zoom meeting’ on ‘The Transition to Independence – SNP Policy on EFTA / EEA and Re-joining the EU’ does indeed sound like a real engaging public pleasing initiative, but unfortunately I might have something else to do that evening, though I can’t for the life of me remember exactly what it is….
Thank you for all your very welcome suggestions. Please feel free, etc.
Pete Wishart MP”
Wishart confirmed today, incidentally, that if it was in his power to decide, Scotland WOULD have a no-deal Brexit inflicted on it rather than the deal 27 EU countries bent over backwards to negotiate to at least partly protect the UK from its own stupidity:
Anything we could add seems superfluous.
.
[EDIT 1.53pm: Wishart’s response to the email becoming public has been to double down on the abuse of Dr Rideout for the “arrogance” of being a democratically elected member of the SNP Policy Development Committee who had the unforgivable temerity to express an opinion on SNP policy development.]
Wishart has totally lost the plot.
He must need a few more years of Westminster based pension contributions for his bank balance.
Pete Wishart is epitome of all that is wrong with SNP. He blocked me on FB and twitter 2years ago for disagreeing with his views and asking him to explain.
I was one who nominated Tim along with many others looking for NEC change.
Let’s hope Wishart is alone in views
Wow! Was Comfy feet Pete propping up the Strangers bar when he wrote this reply? What a snide little nonentity he is. Are him and Alyn Smith morphing into a single entity?
At least Wishart is equally an ass in private communication as he is in public communication. An equal opportunities cozy slipper wearing arsehole.
What a prick Wishart is.
FFS! How can anyone vote for WISHY WASHY Wishart, that man is so BRITNAT it beggars belief he ever got past the assessment process for joining what was one a very INDY PARTY..
I think Mr Rideout, should be the next leader if the Party, & a #RideoutforLeader should be all over Twitter..
That is nothing short of disgraceful.
He should be ashamed of himself.
Holy feckin’ shoot, Pension Pete really doesn’t give a flying feck now, does he? Does he really believe his constituents want a no-deal Brexit? Or is he just bullsh*tting?
And every part of his reply is completely condescending and disrespectful, he’s become one very nasty character.
Mouth and trousers Wishart
Wishart is an utter fucking disgrace. His conceit is on a Galactic scale.
Wishart’s childish response is embarassing for him.
Maybe Wishart and the other 47 SNP national hero’s are finally going to assert Scottish sovereignty, which is the only reason Scottish Nationalists are sent there.
However I do think it would be better for the SNP MP’s to publicly state to us and the RoW in the HoC their intention as to Scotland’s withdrawal from the UK alliance due to ToU breach etc etc. Holding a wee meeting elsewhere is not the Scottish way to tell our oppressor where to go.
Tho A widna haud ma braith eether wey.
wishart’s response probably isn’t untypical of the SNP establishment types. This is why I left the party a couple of years back. Far to cozy cozy with the landed gentry and property lobby.
Tim’s position on Europe is spot on. For the avoidance of doubt – the 3% deficit rule applies to ALL eu members (not just Eurozone countries).
Yes we CAN join the EU with a higher deficit but will be compelled to reduce that by running a government surplus (taxing more our the economy than we spend into the economy).
Being beholden to the stability growth pact rules won’t deliver a wellbeing economy for Scotland.
The Wishart’s types and their friends in Charlotte street partners have no intention of delivering a wellbeing economy for Scotland.
What? Pension Pete giving up the opportunity to pocket a few more expenses. I think not.
What a pompous erse exhibit Weak Pishart is of all that stinks about political ‘entitlement’.
Cosy Pete, for all his entitled superiority, can’t manage basic grammar, can he? Can’t do apostrophes or grasp when to use the plural of the word Party.
He’s mighty pleased with himself for all his enormous achievements re Scottish independence, what with his repeated re-election and 20 years at Westminster.
Eat your cereal, Yessers. Sarcastic, embarrassing Uncle Pete knows best.
@ScottieDog
I venture when the real Westminster books are open and Scotland’s real wealth is revealed, the so called budget deficit will be seen for what it is, a fairie story.
Wishart has gone native and is now an Anglo, believing all that the Treasury tells him.
He should stick to musical notes rather than Treasury ones.
Dr Rideouts email looks like the best course of action in what is largely a no win situation,I would be amazed if the SNP were to change their position and do as he suggested and in in doing so ignore Petes condescending reply.
Nothing would please the Unionists more than to have a retiring SNP MP decide to take ermine and move to the House of Lords.
I reckon Weak Pishart just might be that man.
He;s a right ersehole.
Can Tim Rideout be SNP leader please.
What the NEC should do is make a Term limit rule for WM elections. One term only
No present MP is allowed to stand in any future WM election. Because if the SNP is still participating in WM elections they have clearly utterly failed and new people need to take over.
Wow. Wishart is an absolute prick. The condescension would be unacceptable even to an arch-Tory constituent calling him a English-hating cunt. To someone like Dr. Rideout, it’s just hideously offensive.
Absolutely disgraceful reply to a polite email. I’m disgusted.
This exchange encapsulates all that is wrong with the SNP as currently led.
I find it difficult to express my horror at such a reply. So he has been at his job for 20 years, is it not time he began doing it properly for the cause of Independence rather than trying to please his broker with the size of his pension pot?
Dr Rideout’s email is an accurate analysis of the situation and offers a common sense way out of the dilemma the SNP at Westminster finds itself in.
There is no getting away from the fact that if their votes mattered they would vote for the deal.
So Wishart thinks “that party policy should be determined by our membership.”
Novel concept but it won’t catch on with the Feeble 48.
My money’s on that arrogant twit being the first SNP MP to accept a peerage. They’ve already gone native so might as well go the whole hog.
I thought a year ago when I cancelled my SNP membership it would be a short lived minor protest against a party that had temporarily lost its way. Now I’m increasingly convinced they are beyond redemption. They are clearly satisfied with the status quo, ignoring the plebs and evidently the more senior members of their party who wish to advance the cause of Independence. Instead they shine their seats in their ivory towers, collect their salaries and like Wishart, display the arrogance of ignorance normally associated with the Tories.
The sad thing is that Dr Rideout has contributed more to the cause of Independence with that email than Wishart has, cumulatively, in the last twenty years.
Christ almighty.
I just offered a rant on Iain Lawson’s site re tweeters blaming Tory. I made a glaring and schoolboy error in that rant – I omitted SNP representatives blaming Tory. It seems all our doughty team are good at is bleating from the benches, and receiving short-shrift? Yes, they’re brilliant at that.
Sir Pete Wishart – now that’s a coward’s tractor if ever Scotland needed one. That swine had better offer a deserved and humble apology to Tim Rideout? Whether he does or he doesn’t…
..Wishart – you’re OUT next time, pal.
Pete Wishart is absolutely correct. There. I’ve said it. I totally agree that there is more than one Scottish National Party. There are those who believe in the restoration of Scottish national sovereignty and those, like the Honourable Member, who don’t.
“So Wishart thinks “that party policy should be determined by our membership.”
Novel concept but it won’t catch on with the Feeble 48.”
Kinda missing the point anyway. Dr Rideout IS the membership. He’s a party member, and someone elected by other members specifically to shape policy.
Wishart confirming (to anyone who didn’t already know) how much of a weapon he is.
This reminds me of a licensees exam I took with a group of about 20 fellow license holders.
It was when the Scots Gov decided that all license holders must be trained and anyone left in charge of a building that sells alcohol should also hold a certificate.
An old pub landlord decided to boss the group went on and on about sucking eggs, I’ve been doing this for forty years and I know more about the subject than the lecturer etc etc.
One guy failed the course, I shall let you guess who.
I think that Dr Rideout’s views on the current situation of now fully leaving the EU are correct. His views on rejoining after we achieve independence are a total breath of fresh air and I am delighted to hear it now being voiced by people that are high up in the SNP hierarchy. An independent Scotland as a full member of the EU is not a good idea in my opinion; EFTA or the EEA are the much better paths to follow. However, it is very refreshing to hear that full membership shouldn’t go ahead without a public referendum on the issue.
Rideout is proposing all the right democracy supporting actions. Wishart’s response just shows himself up as an authoritarian arsehole — typical of so many in the upper-reaches of the SNP.
One wonders if the Barbour baffied one’s recent behaviour will effect John Swinney’s vote share for Holyrood, seeing as their constituencies cover a similar area.
It’s like watching a comedy tag team of how to fuck your vote share.
I am the lord, thou shalt have no other opinions than mine, even though I’m not too strong on that grammar and syntax stuff.
In a similar from on high vein.
link to off-guardian.org
Vaccinate! Vaccinate! screamed the machine, circuits in melt down.
Best thing Wishart can do for his constituents is resign and hopefully take that obscene ego with him. No wonder SNP is floundering with crew members like that maybe it’s time to jump ship and join another Independence Party and get the bollox job done once and for all!
Tim Rideout is a valuable asset to the SNP, and the independence movement. He has put in tons of work trying to move the currency issue forward in the face of stubborn SNP leadership resistance, and their utter lack of imagination and ambition.
Even if Wishart disagrees with his suggestions, which he obviously does, the snarky, arrogant, condescending tone of his reply is 100% bang out of order. It is childish and entirely unnecessary.
Wishart isn’t representing the wishes of his constituents, he’s representing the wishes of Pete Wishart and a small band of SNP insiders who think that they alone speak for the entire independence movement. He says the membership should decide policy. That’s true enough, but when was the membership asked for their views on this particular issue?
I already had serious doubts about Wishart, but this is beyond unreasonable. This stuff is really pissing me off now.
I’d be very embarrassed if I’d written this. It is just crass.
I’m sure the 3.5 million quid richer media will be saving up lots to throw at us just before May.
If we don’t drop the genderwoowoo and yusuf soon, then I can see us losing in May.
Jeezus. Wishart has finally become an old slipper.
There are many, many things to dislike about Wishart’s response but it’s the lack of class and manners that rings out most.
Wretched.
OK that is actually extraordinary as in outside the limits of the ordinary.
Blowing the shite off my keyboard. Perhaps wishy washy slipper bottom feeder should do the same
In my view Mr Wishart’s letter breaches the SNP Codes of Conduct. He should be suspended while his behaviour is investigated and if necessary disciplinary action taken.
Was his letter approved by the leadership?
Grouse Beater says: at 11:50 am
“Jeezus. Wishart has finally become an old sleeper.”
Fixed that for you! 😉
Wet Pishfart has hoodwinked his electorate for years. He is the SNP’s Gordon Broon, only dragged when fuck all sensible to say
Shit a brick!
Pete Wishart is clearly looking towards the 2024 UK General Election. The progress made by the SNP to achieve independence suggests they will still be sitting at Westminster then.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The secret of teamwork Dr Tim Rideout is one of the most serious and respected people in the Yes movement and […]
I would just re-iterate that I did not leak any of this correspondence. Wishart did that himself by clicking ‘reply all’ when he sent the reply to me. So as Wings notes one of the other MPs passed it on. I was pretty shocked by what he wrote! Other than replying to point out I have been in the SNP since 1988, and am now entirely legitimately looking at policy as a new member of Policy Development Committee, I decided to ignore it.
Good letter from Dr Rideout – practical suggestions, clear goals. What a second rate response from Mr Wishart.
The Wishart’s types and their friends in Charlotte street partners have no intention of delivering a wellbeing economy for Scotland.
Agree, ScottieDog. Going by Mr Wishart’s response, I don’t think he knows what a wellbeing economy is.
What a total prick.
One thing’s for sure, Mr Wishart won’t be getting elected for a 7th time.
Pish Washout needs tarred, feathered, and placed in stocks on the esplanade at Edinburgh Castle.
To make him fully appreciate the error of his ways, Runrigs’s Loch Lomond should be played on a loop at full blast through headphones placed on his ears for a minimum of 48 hours.
At the end of this period, he should be made to walk down the Royal Mile to our Parliament, holding a sign around his neck displaying the word “Fraud”, asking everyone he should meet en-route to forgive him for having spent “about 20 years” taking money from Scottish taxpayers to sit on his arse in England’s parliament and achieve the square root of f**k all.
So he’s been an MP for longer than anyone else?
One of Terry Pratchett’s books has a response to a similar phrase:
“My bum has been a bum for a long time, but that doesn’t mean I have to listen to it.”
Tim Rideout has done more for the cause of independence in the last 2 years than Pete Wishart has in 20 years. Nonentity.
Sleeper. A really, really thick piece of wood. That trains run over. We will not go away and will not be beaten
Dr Tim Rideout @ 11:57 am
Well done on your restraint. Hopefully he’s sobered up and feeling suitably embarrassed.
Dear Mr Pete Wishart – (Occupation MP),
I am deeply concerned by the condescending tone in your response to a respected representative, elected member of the SNP.
As one of your constituents I would also like to make you aware, I agree completely with his assessment and proposal.
For SNP MP’s to vote for Brexit in either thin or no gruel forms – is not principled – you are being handmaidens to Brexit and a Westminster system that completely disrespects the Sovereignty of Scotland’s voters.
As a former member of the SNP and one of your local branches – more than most, I am aware of your ‘experience’ when it comes to winning elections, and in 2016 you won by 21 votes, thanks entirely to local campaigners determination, including, dragging you kicking and screaming to get your arse in gear.
You say, ‘If it’s OK with you, I will maybe just continue to put my constituents interests over and above what you think I should do on their behalf and make sure they are properly represented in one of the biggest decisions of this session of Parliament.’
Which constituents would that be Pete? Hmmm?
The Seed Potato Farmers? The Berry Farmers? What about our Agri Science Industry, Our Universities, Our New Scots from Europe (big poster on the windae saying ‘your welcome here’, just isn’t going to cut it anymore I’m afraid…’
Or maybe you mean our Internationally famous and successful Whiskey Industry… Oh, wait…
Or perhaps its our local NHS?
Or young Scottish Students?
Or Scottish Water staying in public ownership…. protect it like you protected Scottish Hyrdo jobs in Perth – will you Pete?
Or what about our local Police Stations, not quite your beat, but close enough for you to notice – when the close Crieff Police Station, next year. And the rest.
Or what about the hunting, fishing set – docking dugs tails, that’ll convert them. Not.
Or maybe your standing up for Perthshire’s iconic landscape ‘The Big Tree Country’ right enough – except what was billed as the long overdue duelling of the A9, judging by all the fly overs being built in pristine farmland, is really just the death knell to that countryside, to be converted into little boxes homes. Eagle Star land banked that land since the 1980’s but since it is prime agricultural land and green belt – could not cash in…. not anymore. Brown envelopes anyone?
Or perhaps you stood up for us, when as chair of the Scottish Commission in Westminster, you meekly rolled over for your tummy to be tickled as they stuffed it full of English MP’s, completely out of ration to the election results. But hey, how much does that position pay you to attend, £15,000? £20,000 a year top up on your basic wages. Nice little earner, best not to rock the boat.
Your biggest problem Pete, is that the Indy movement is not stupid. But with letters like the one you penned above, they have every right to form the opinion that you are.
I will NEVER vote for you, or your pall Swinnney EVER again.
PS I know you read Wings and I know you read the comments.
“Other than replying to point out I have been in the SNP since 1988, and am now entirely legitimately looking at policy as a new member of Policy Development Committee, I decided to ignore it.”
Out of interest, and without revealing the contents, did you get any sort of reply from anyone else?
Sheer contempt, and/or hatred ???
What a despicable and condescending response from an elected official.
Shame on you ROTTEN SNP HIERARCHY.
link to psychologytoday.com
It’s vulgar. Any chance this can be copied and pasted to the other MPs to get a reaction from them? Is Mr. Wishart speaking for the Parliamentary group now. Could one of Ian Blackford’s constituency get a response from him?
The clown was clearly drunk at 6.57pm on the 28th December.
Th@t arse wipe (anagram).
..pointed it out to him, he got back to say haha it didn’t fit..then went on to press his wee button of protection.
Incidentally, it does fit.
What a despicable creature, his depressing lack of sense and intellect, anything good at all.
These kind of people speaking for us.,
Make you weep.
Dear ROTTEN SNP:
DIGNITY:
link to dictionary.cambridge.org
@Katherine Hamilton
No need, Dr Tim indicated Wishart replied to all, so they already have a copy.
Its quite strange how many SNP figures seem to be revealing their true personalities recently – Nicolson, Humza, Daddy, now this. I wonder when/why they decided to drop their previous public faces.
This Pete wishart is a total arrogant bastard there is no more suited to Westminster than him, he bloody part of the furniture he’s that rooted in the old class of English politics.
What a dick.
Imagine how we would be expected to react if a Tory peer did this. Truly “pig to man, and man to pig”.
It would be interesting to know which other SNP MPs:
Agree with Wishart’s reply.
Agree with his manner of expressing his views.
Thinking of asking my MP.
You’re a busted flush Campbell. Google Trends doesn’t lie. Your third rate ramblings and personal anger have no place in Scottish politics. It’s time you pulled the plug on this tawdry website and get yourself a proper job. #justsaying
“You’re a busted flush Campbell. Google Trends doesn’t lie. Your third rate ramblings and personal anger have no place in Scottish politics. It’s time you pulled the plug on this tawdry website and get yourself a proper job. #justsaying”
Thanks for your input. But we seem to be doing okay compared to other pro-indy voices, considering we were on holiday for most of February, March, April and May.
This is a disgraceful, rude and arrogant letter written by an ignorant man.
Please email him on pete.wishart.mp@parliament.uk and tell him so. You won’t get a reply but he needs to be called out on this. I also copied my letter to my branch and SNP HQ.
Good grief! What a shocking response. It is acceptable to disagree with someone but the tone of this letter is completely unprofessional. What an embarrassment for a parliamentarian of 20 years. Dr Rideout’s idea is exactly the kind of forward thinking the SNP desperately needs right now.
Ahm the 6 times elected Wishart and no one can tell me how to do ma job..ah wiz in Runrig too, the international music phenomenon…aye, ah wiz even in an early line up of Big Country…music royalty..that’s me…and an MP for 20 year..longer than anyone in the SNP…an av got a diploma in social work…who are you?..so called Dr. Rideout.
My goodness. What a supercilious twat Wishart is. His “i know better” reply is not only embarrassing but shows you what they think of other SNP members and Yessers points of view it is obviously they are guided by their own point of view and their cosy life style. What a snide arsehole to finish off an email like that.
What Dr Tim proposed I for one would endorse as an SNP member . Unlike Pete who appears to speak for all his constituents.
Well, from experience of grassroots indy movement and exposure to so many people whose various talents, qualifications, career/world experience and unremitting desire to work for the good of Scotland and plan intelligently for independence, it becomes ever more clear with each passing day that, for the most part, we are not well served by those sitting in parliaments.
There are more than a few who appear not to have an arrogance filter.
.
Dear Dr Rideout,
Thankyou for your service and your calm, dignified response; including the clarification you posted here.
My jaw is still in a dropped state after reading the words of one of our MPs to you.
As someone who worked at grass roots and knows how every vote for the SNP is hard fought and won, I am at the cusp of reminding Mr Wishart that one of the 6 elections he arrogantly states HE won was by a meagre majority of 21 vote. Just 11 electors changing their ballot would have seen Pete back on the pub circuit punting old tunes from the Runrig glory days.
Incumbency has not been kind to Pete Wishart. His position is far from secure. But we should not be fighting internally.
I put real blame at the door of Pete Wishart and am now considering rejoining the SNP to advocate what one of my fellow BTL contributors suggested…
That it become SNP Policy for ALL Westminster MPs to be limited to TWO terms. Any longer and they have failed. As a very wise member of the SNP once said: “We go to Westminster to settle up, not settle down.”
Sadly, cosy feet Pete has lost the plot and is upsetting sufficient numbers of his local troops on the ground that he may be retiring involuntarily at the next UK General election. Pete Wishart needs reminding that HE did NOT win 6 elections on his own. It took thousands of hours by honourable decent members of the REAL SNP to get pension Pete, the wannabe Speaker of the UK Parliament House of Commons installed into his self-entitled sinecure.
Dr Rideout, that disrespectful missive from a sitting SNP MP deserves to be sanctioned in some form by reference to the Westminster leader, Ian Blackford MP. I suggest Pete Wishart has brought the name of the SNP into disrespect.
I would respectfully encourage my fellow WoS colleagues who currently retain membership to email Ian Blackford and ask for that letter to be sanctioned in some form and for the MP to forfeit a month’s pay.
My god, Wishart clicked ‘Reply all’ when answering Rideout’s polite suggestion? He’s either a bigger, more incompetent waste of space than previously, or his cocky arrogance knows no bounds?
At 1.33am I suggested Wishart apologise for his ignorant slight – I now hope Rideout refuses that embarrassing coward’s awkward stunt. Wishart should just shut his mouth, least-said style.
“one of the other MPs passed it on”..
That line is the saving grace in all of this – that even Wishart’s colleagues consider him a nave.
Personal attacks don’t necessarily get us anywhere, I don’t like making personal attacks.
I will however on this one occasion agree with everyone who stated that Wishart is an arse.
Very much in contrast with Dr Rideout.
It reeks of: Do you know who I am? I am Pete Wishart MP.
We do know Pete Wishart is. We also know what he is.
A puffed up. Full of himself. Arrogant. Waste of space as an SNP MP.
A Colonial administrator at the Imperial Parliament.
———————————————————–
No more votes for career politician colonial administrators like Mr Wishart.
For me, it’s now: Give us a Plebiscite election or we abstain.
While Pete constituents voted to give him another 5yrs they where also voting for there MP to keep to the manifesto pledges and two of these pledges where 1 to remain part of the EU 2 to have a referendum on Independence on both of the issue Peter Wishart has ignored his constituents but instead tried to root him self into becoming Speaker of a foreign parliament, while the rest of us where looking to (Nicola can’t make my mind up Sturgeon) for a date for a referendum. Peter Wishart knew (Nicola can’t make my mind up Sturgeon) had no intention of holding a referendum or honoring the mandates given to the SNP
Wete Pishart is probably now desperately try to dig up the mole.
Ugh, what a nob.
He’s everything we despise in highborn Conservative MP’s and arrogant Labour politicians. He’ll fit in well at the HoL.
In the meantime, I hope his constituents see this letter and vote his belligerent fat erse out of power.
No I have not had any other reply, but there are a number who I know think the same and thus did not need to. The best thing tomorrow would be for nobody from any party other than the Tories to attend. That way they can never say ‘Parliament’ decided – it has to be only ‘The Tories’ decided. As it is Boris can say: But the Opposition agreed with me! when it all goes wrong in a few months.
A shocking and arrogant reply to a party member who is entitled to a view like all members.
Abstaining by absense is the correct response and should indeed be backed by a pro-Eu summit in Scotland.
Pete Wishart has a guid conceit of his own abilities but seems to be lacking in common decency and respect.
We need more, not fewer thinkers like Tim Rideout.
@Mighty S
As an alternative and more appropriate action, his local association could deselect him as a candidate, saving the electorate the bother.
That’s one hell of a shocking reply, my jaw hit the floor reading it, really.
Pete Wishart should be ashamed of himself or at the very least embarrassed. I wonder if that’s him reached peak nob head status or…I’ll watch that space.
@Dr Tim Rideout. Good for you for being able to ignore it. You appear a lot calmer being the recipient than a lot of us just reading it.
That response from Pete Wishart is an absolute disgrace. Sounds like something a stroppy teenager would write.
It’d be interesting to get all 48 of them on a lie detector and ask, “Are you happy to give up your salary, your pension entitlements, your expense account, etc. for the good of your country?”
I think it’d be VERY interesting.
We have just been shown the arrogance and sense of entitlement which is at the root of the decay within the SNP.
No lateral thinking. No deviation from the chosen path. Contempt for other views no matter how creative.
It is this very clearly displayed in his response, and he is not alone.
I will not vote for him again under any circumstance and I am one of his constituents.
My personal apologies to Dr Rideout for the behaviour of my MP.
Pete Wishart – what an arrogant, arsehole of a man.
I hung back from condemning Pete Wishart, but that response… It doesn’t really matter what your political believes are, or with whom they align (or not.)
Anyone who writes an email like that in response to someone who’s on the same side they are, who’s offering sensible and structured opinion – has to be a total git.
Poor show, just a total lack of humility and an amount of hubris and self-satisfaction that isn’t easily measured.
Wow, what a snidey immature response from Wishart. And is he really that ignorant as to who Dr Rideout is? If so then it doesn’t say much for his decades of experience as he wishes to portray; if he does then his insulting reply is even more disgraceful.
I feel more and more embarrassed to have any association with him and his cronies ( I left SNP this year) as I do with having any connection to the UK.
Oh, Mr Wishart, if you fail to see that using REALpolitik is now our only option, I despair of you. How can you be so lacking in acumen and foresight? How can the SNPG of which you are a member? Voting against the deal will bring nothing to the table. It will make not one jot of difference to the overall result when the votes are counted. Your party has failed to capitalise on every opportunity the has come its way. Dr Tim Rideout is correct. His appraisal is correct. His appraisal of the currency situation is a far better prospect than 10 years of using sterling post independence, as Andrew Wilson advocates. Just find your spine, reattach it to your body and walk out of that chamber in protest at the whole sh***y mess. Even if you appoint a skeleton contingent to represent our interests thereafter of which you could be one, most of you should walk and never darken its portals again. It rots the brain and corrupts the soul, if you are anything by which to judge.
Wishart’s one redeeming quality is that he’s as thick as two planks. He makes up for it by being the most ultra-loyal sycophant imaginable, which is a common tactic with thick people.
But this is a good example of what I said earlier: Sturgeon’s SNP only ever directs nasty stuff at pro-indy people on their side – when it comes to unionists and the British government they are super-apologetic and deferential.
I suspect it’s one of those Scottish sub-cultural things. Could be wrong, but they do seem to doff their little humble caps at authority and officialdom when they get the chance.
Imagine actually TAKING THE TIME to write such a rude and cretinous response!
Does this not illustrate perfectly how out of touch Pete Wishart and co are?
He does not appear to know the role of Dr Rideout within his own party and his arrogant tone demonstrates he takes advice from no one except perhaps his ‘laird friends’.
The Westminster group look increasingly cut off from Scotland and even their own party in Holyrood as they hunker down deeper into Westminster trying to stay in the game.
Rationalizing the Great Reset.
link to politico.eu
(Politico is the unofficial voice of the EU)
The devil lurks between the lines.
Homeworking effectively means 24/7 access by employers to space which is no longer yours. Were you to opt out, the likelihood is you’d be considered socially deviant, unemployable, a risk.
The masses whose ‘socializing’ is mediated by devices can be tracked and traced and if required, punished.
The arrogant plutocrats and their pimps may sleep easy as the system adjusts to suit them, the rest may need to prepare to storm the Winter Palace.
Morning all. Pete blocked me on Twitter when I challenged him for calling me a ‘Yesser’, despite me being an active SNP member both in terms of financial and leaflet distribution activities. To me, the SNP elite now use the term as a derogatory term, similar to unionists using the term ‘separatist’. I complained to SNP about his Twitter behaviour. Unfortunately I received no reply. So, I am no longer a member of the SNP. Pete’s lasting legacy will be the enormous harm he has done to the independence movement. There is a clear lack of leadership and control from the party hq.
On this attending to vote lark. Given most MP’s won’t attend in person cause Covid level 4 stuff, and can avoid whips and stuff. What if loads of Tories and Labour types absent themselves from the vote and SNP all vote against. What if Vote falls and it’s a No Deal? Supplied by SNP, DUP and Lib Dems? Oooh what a lark.
Very much agree with Ron Maclean @ 1155
This message from Mr Wishart goes against any level of decency, and in my view against the Code of Conduct for SNP members.
It is now up to other members – preferably some on the Member Conduct Committee – to raise this officially.
It seems to warrant suspension from the party.
The message is disgusting, I would not send such to a political opponent, never mind to a colleague.
That’s a disgraceful reply to a party member from a sitting MP!
Has party discipline, even basic manners, lapsed to such an extent that Pete Wishart won’t be reprimanded?
If so I can only guess that Nicola Sturgeon has lost control and authority over the party she leads.
Pete has his priorities all wrong.
He is first and foremost a member and an MP of the Scottish National Party. That trumps everything else. In his constituency there will be many rich Tories. They didn’t vote for him! So why is he assisting them by trying not to represent the SNP and the independence movement.
He was elected on a ticket of independence, not to represent Tories. Whether they care for him or not is by the by. He won, the SNP won. So his remit is to represent the party and the movement. Do Labour and Tory Mp’s stop being unionists because there are nationalists in their constituencies?
What an absolute straw man Pete is.
If wishart was doing such a sterling job for his constituents why are there foodbanks in perth and north perthshire begging supermarkets to donate food for the people he represents . Many children go to bed hungry at night because mr wishart and many snp mps/msps have decided their comforts supersede those less fortunate .shame on the snp party for allowing this situation to occur so people like wishart and his like can lord over us . We can only hope that mr salmond re/enters the arena to bring back compassion and hope that is sadly lacking in nicola sturgeons party .
What a pillock.
I do sometimes wonder about IQ’s – is it beyond the wit of MSP’s , MP’s to take the ubiquitous advice I was given when responding to a challenge – write it , keep it 24 hours, re -read it then tear it up. Works for me and prevents blushes.
I had said on a previous thread that if your votes count for nothing inside the chamber, then make them count outside the chamber.
However, the ‘abstention + non-attendance’ sounds the better way of making them count outside the chamber.
Well said @Dr Tim Rideout your comment and email make perfect sense
It’s surprising that UK mp’s don’t have some kind of dental scheme.
I’d Email him to clarify, but like so many of his constituents, I just can’t make that connection.
Within the SNP are two political parties 1 that wants Independence and the 2nd that wants to govern with Westminster controlling all the wheels of power this is the reason I left the SNP and is the reason I’ll never rejoin. Peter Wishart belong to the part of the SNP who is happy to mention during a Westminster election but ever so softly about Independence but in reality he’s rooted to power and Westminster politics, its very easy to say you want Independence but with the likes of Sturgeon, Smith and Wishart is only mentioned when it suites them and when they are all returned for another 5yrs to the power and the Westminster politics we(Scots) who gave them that power are told not to talk about Independence its appalling and no wonder we are treated with such contempt by our neighbor when our own leaders treat us in the same regard and are never challenged.
It’s all a bit like that Godley and Creme video for Cry…
Watching a pimply, bulbous-nosed George Foulkes morph into precious Pete Wishart…
Pete has just tweeted that he has finished writing his speech for tomorrow’s debate. “It’s a cracker” he says modestly.
Hatuey 12:48
It was suggested to me that the SNP is Scottish Labour#2, has a similar conformist, neoStalinist mindset and a like contempt for the dissent found on ‘the street’.
The deep furrow of legalism and a neo Calvinist respect for ‘law’ as holy text impedes political development.
The conceited Wishart text might have been proclaimed from a pulpit, or Mount Olympus.
Unfortunately, the current situation does little to encourage intelligent dissidence. Too many seem scared of thunderbolts.
I remember many years ago at SNP Conference Pete Wishart arguing passionately (fortunately in vain) that the SNP should stop its boycott of the House of Lords and allow members u to o accept peerages.
“Don’t rock the Gravy Boat” cries Weet Pishfart
I’m for no attendance. Ticks all the right boxes. Shocking reply to a perfectly legitimate suggestion. Tim’s been doing great work for the cause – thank you Tim.
Words fail me on reading this.
There is a basic truth Mr Wishart ignores. He was not elected because he was good at his job, or he was popular with locals in the constituency.
He was elected because he had SNP next to his name on the ballot and therefore was expected to hold the values of that party. That is the truth. He appears to think otherwise.
What I have noticed clearly now is that this behaviour is becoming mainstream within the SNP. The abuse Joanna Cherry suffered. Kirsty Blackman openly criticising the new NEC.
Mhairi Black calling terfs C#nts.
Something is going very wrong with party discipline and it is another sign of decline.
Smug, condescending, patronising and superior… everything a constituency MP should not be. He is a disgrace
Big Jock says:
29 December, 2020 at 12:53 pm
Quote:
“Pete has his priorities all wrong.
He is first and foremost a member and an MP of the Scottish National Party. That trumps everything else. In his constituency there will be many rich Tories. They didn’t vote for him! So why is he assisting them by trying not to represent the SNP and the independence movement.
He was elected on a ticket of independence, not to represent Tories. Whether they care for him or not is by the by. He won, the SNP won. So his remit is to represent the party and the movement. Do Labour and Tory Mp’s stop being unionists because there are nationalists in their constituencies?
What an absolute straw man Pete is.”
So you are clarifying the SNP policy that sitting SNP MPs WILL NOT represent the body of their constituents.
Just because people don’t vote in a particular way doesn’t mean they loose their political representation.
You should be careful about what you shout because people might start listening.
Bit like all that woke/trans stuff the SNP are famed for…..
Dr Tim Rideout @ 12.41
Scotland’s MP’s not attending would seem to some extent posturing and would make little difference, does it not? It would hardly even be reported internationally – unless it is a real and permanent withdrawal – and the latter needs to be presented in the HoC.
I appreciate the latter may seem unlikely, however the majority of Scotland’s MP’s should this week pull the plug on our UK alliance and in a very public manner. That is their real purpose and duty and they have all the justification to do so as well as the essential Scotland majority to say so.
So, what would Scots MP’s simply not appearing on this single occasion achieve? And would the Tories or anyone else bother?
@BuggerLePanda
i agree wrt current deficits, but even if Scotland is running a trade surplus where exports are greater than imports, that only means that other eu countries have to run a bigger deficit in order to buy our goods.
Once they bang up against the 3% rule, the first thing they do is dial back their purchase of imports. That directly affects our export revenue which would likely push our fiscal deficit up the way.
The U.K. was put into the EU’s ‘excessive deficit procedures’ for reacting to a financial crisis when we ran 10% deficits. Failure to do so would have been catastrophic.
The EU economic rules were back of fag packet nonsensical stuff and need to reform. This is why Tim is spot on. We shouldn’t be rushing into the eu without proper debate and a vote.
20 years apprenticeship? When I did my time it was 5 years plus a years improver, cut down to 5, now 4 years. How thick must you be to do that long and still have learned nothing.
I met some of Pete’s neighbours a while back,what they told me certainly didn’t impress, some one who goes down to London without locking their doors certainly has something missing upstairs.
You don’t have to be highly intelligent to know basic manners and how to correspond correctly.
He’s not my MP thank goodness! I only hope that there will be a big clear out next year and in 2024,with some real Independistas in place.
I have now joined Scotia-Future, their aims are very much in the same idea as the old left of centre parties.
Hopefully it will do well in the future.
Pete Wishart – a Grade A weapon in Scotland’s fight for independence.
all hail the new politics – cuntocracy … govt for / by / with … etc (a bit like kakistocracy, but with added arrogance)
which reminds me of something else
anglo exceptionalism – I blame brexit
link to zerohedge.com
it says “brits” but I think we know who they really mean
As I said, all the SNP can do with their votes is to try and make them count outside the chamber.
So the argument now (or should be) is: how best to do that?
SNP have decided a NO vote will make the most waves, get them the most media coverage, and thus boost both their support and that for independence amongst Remainers.
The abstention and non-attendance sounds the more principled option but that might not get as much media coverage.
So even though the NO vote is a bit silly, is it designed to get lots of media coverage and thus maximally reach out to Remainers in the way an abstention wouldn’t?
Bob Mack – interesting point re party discipline, as clearly at least 1 MP felt the need to share the Wishart response, but will they all be whipped into line tomorrow and vote en masse to back No Deal? There is a clear schism in the parliamentary party, but will they vote as instructed tomorrow? I expect they will.
As an aside, Pete is doubling down on twitter, strong ‘i’ll take no lessons…’ vibes from him.
@Gfaetheblock,
Those who “take no lessons” never go beyond the limits of their own knowledge. Its a weakness, not a strength.
Jeezus! Who let a school kid into such a position!?
Naa I take that back, most school kids are more mature than that.
Even pissed he should have had the sense to wait for the “cold light of day” to review before hitting the send button.
What a prick.
On the other hand Dr the SNP are in need of a new leader! Winky smilie thing.
Bob Mack – i agree 100%
Fuck me that reply from PW is infuriating. Clearly only a keyboard tough guy, if you spoke to someone like that in person you’d be flat on your back in jig time.
The vote should be ignored with the explanation that this is an EVEL matter.
Over the last 2 days, I’ve taken a look at btl comments on WGD.
Old names, once fondly read, now deeply, deeply angry, bullying and unwilling to consider any evidence that does not shore up their view.
All who find fault with St Nikla – are ‘haters’. Well, I am gutted with disappointment about her, whether or not she has actively betrayed Indy, or is deeply incompetent at pursuing it – now matters not. Its actually too important a matter for hate to enter into it.
I will also, always reserve the right to use ‘disrespectful’ nick names for any and all politicians (especially my own) – somewhere deep in my psyche I think its important. A bit Scots, ‘ah kent their faither’ attitude to keep them grounded.
Cosy Feet’s, letter above, much like Daddy Bear Smiths recent efforts demonstrate a losing of control, and manners, which is deeply, deeply unprofessional and disrespectful to the voters.
Out of interest has St Nickla issued any letter of public welcome to the new members of NEC? Any public, or internal party, statement of acknowledgement about the membership expression of desire for altered policy direction? She has a reputation for being an excellent communicator – in her position, as leader, one could reasonably expect her to put aside her own bias, and come up with something gracious to consolidate the common ground / build bridges. That’s one of the roles bosses have to do after all.
The First Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon stated, time and again, and won elections, time and again, with clear mandates to act, ‘once the terms of Brexit are known’.
There will be an election in May, (in spite of Covid) by which we can legally and democratically demonstrate our wishes (again). Now that the terms of Brexit are known.
MP’s like Pete, should be collating data in their areas, for all jobs, threatened, and businesses lost or damaged due to Brexit. They should be liaising very closely with their business communities, to ensure they know that the SNP intend to provide Indy, and access/membership of the EU.
They should be shouting that information from the roof tops.
The SNP becomes the lifeboat. A wishy washy talk shop, delivering just the same as the Unionists, but with a sad face, is no use.
I remember when Alex Salmond called the first IndyRef, I thought wow, is that wise, perhaps it would be better to do it gradually. I was wrong. And I will never doubt Alex Salmond when it comes to Indy for Scotland.
I remember when Nicola Sturgeon took over, and Alex got re-elected as MP. NS at Holyrood and AS in Westminster. Wow I thought, best of both worlds.
And when Alex got a TV show – after all the biased crap the BBC etc had thrown at us. Wow. Fantastic. Brilliant, effective, tangible tactics.
No wonder they wanted him out the game. And 2 dodgy court cases later, proven dodgy cases, and Nicola Sturgeon and her husband – resolutely… unaccountable, shall we say, in the spirit of politeness.
She had a duty, as First Minister, as Leader of the SNP, for every single person in Scotland, to ENSURE, that the process was fair. And instead she bent over backwards to draft deeply unjust, retrospective laws, that no court in the land could entertain. Trained lawyer that she is.
Under her leadership, a half score of mandates have been wasted,
a half million pounds of Yessers ‘ring fenced’ money is now inaccessibly ‘interwoven’
A leader, a mentor, an inspiration has been publicly, and unlawfully besmirched in the most despicable manner,
All efforts at Parliamentary accountability are treated with disdain and dishonesty,
And Party policy within the NEC has not (until this month) had Independence on the menu for the last 6 years.
The blatant Britishness of Boris plus the fear of Covid has made St Nicla.
Facing facts though – we have gone from the carrot of a Devo Max to the reality of a Devo Nowt in 6 years. With as many Mandates, and with Polls in the High 50%s.
And the best we get from NS is to vote against thin gruel Brexit – out of principle. What Principle. Scotland didn’t vote for Brexit IN ANY FORM Nicla. Stand Up For Scotland and What She Voted For. Its why we gave you mandates.
Devo Max to Devo Nowt in 6 years under Nicola Sturgeon’s leadership.
What a legacy. What a failure. And no amount of, ‘but she’s awfy nice about the Covid, Frank get the Door’ changes that.
Spelling out the above – that’s not hate. For our country, its desperately, tragically sad.
Stands Scotland as she did? Stands Scotland at all? Not under Nicla.
Daisy Walker@ 12.06
Brilliant reposte to Wishart.
BTW I did’nt know he only had 21 of a majority. Hopefully his coat on a shoogily nail.
@Teetering 1:41pm
LOL!!! Brilliant!!
“No I have not had any other reply, but there are a number who I know think the same and thus did not need to. The best thing tomorrow would be for nobody from any party other than the Tories to attend. That way they can never say ‘Parliament’ decided – it has to be only ‘The Tories’ decided. As it is Boris can say: But the Opposition agreed with me! when it all goes wrong in a few months.”
I agree. I think Labour’s case is weak and embarrassing but just about intellectually defensible at a stretch, because the deal IS marginally better than no deal. The SNP’s is just weak and embarrassing.
It’ll take Pete a while to Rideout the derision.
“BTW I did’nt know he only had 21 of a majority. Hopefully his coat on a shoogily nail.”
That was in the 2017 election. He’s up to 7500 now so he thinks he’s untouchable.
Dr. Rideout has with one very constructive mail, proven that the SNP is not completely devoid of intelligent thinking and gives hope that the thorn of currency which plagued 2014 be solved.
As for Perthshire’s shame, the self-conceited twat .. 🙁
“It’ll take Pete a while to Rideout the derision.”
I wonder if he’ll even have the guts to tweet about it.
Daisy Walker@ 12.06
Brilliant reposte to Wishart.
BTW I did’nt know he only had 21 of a majority. Hopefully his coat on a shoogily nail.
Neil @ 12.27
Eh..Wishart we see you!
The thing is Pete…you did NOT win six times…the SNP won six times. Similarly all SNP Cllrs MSPs MPs are their because of the SNP and INdependence. Should you doubt that Pete…stand as a independent candidate against the SNP.
That the SNP insist on behaving as if they have influence at Westminster is embarrassing.
They need a good clear out but it will be to Scotland’s eternal shame if Wishart is ever elected to political office again. The man is not just a joke, he’s a liability.
There’s an air of 2014 Ian Davidson MP (remember him?) about Pete Wishart.
“I have only being doing this for about 20 years and I don’t know how I have managed”
Pension Pete exposing his soft underbelly.
He needs to hold out for his improved parliamentary pension,
Must be worth a lot to sell out your party .
Pete Wishart letting everyone know what a complete WM bellend he truly is.
Will anything be done about this by St.Nicola of the GRA?
Nope , she’s got her own wee enquiry coming up on 26th Jan.
Though to be fair she looks somewhat smugly assured of a whitewash -like all her previous cabal perjurors ,at least that’s my impression of how it’ll go.
Who’d have thought on 19th September 2014 we’d have come to this deeply unsettling pile of shit?
The time has come to clearout the enemy within or Indy’s a goner.
One positive thing, thankfully about this Brexit shite is that N.Ireland can operate in the EU with £ Sterling.Currency issue sorted.
Have a Happy New Year Yessers and Wings and all you little helpers, we’re not done yet.
What a patronising response, revealing a closed mind with a high opinion of himself and his role in the world.
Wishart in 2019 expressed a desire to become Speaker of the House. That was clearly never going to happen but the fact that Wishart seriously considered this was a suitable option for his constituents gives lie to his sneering, ‘..what I should do to represent my constituents’, ‘put my constituents (sic) interests over and above what you think I should do on their behalf’, and ‘how their interests should be looked after’.
The Speaker must sever all links to their own political party as they have to be impartial. How on earth was this going to represent your constituents, Pension Pete?
Not only that, but his angling to be Speaker drove a horse and cart through the SNP policy to stand against, then Speaker, Labour’s Glasgow MP Michael Martin, when he was Speaker.
Pension Pete has morphed into these odious Scottish Labour MPs who treated all with contempt, MPs like Messrs Ian Davidson, Michael Connarty, Jim Sheridan, Willie Bain & Tom Harris, who ultimately took their constituents for granted.
Wishart will, gallinly ride on the coat-tails of voters who have no choice but to vote SNP, in absence of any other credible party, despite SNP credentials becoming steadily more dubious.
Perhaps Pete, having to give up his dreams of being Speaker, now aspires to being the English Parliament’s ‘Father of The House’?
He is not a politician who to cross the road & shake hands with.
@Gregory Beekman says:
29 December, 2020 at 1:30 pm
“SNP have decided a NO vote will make the most waves, get them the most media coverage, and thus boost both their support and that for independence amongst Remainers.
So even though the NO vote is a bit silly, is it designed to get lots of media coverage and thus maximally reach out to Remainers in the way an abstention wouldn’t?”
Fair comment, but it has backfired badly. It’s made waves alright – tidal waves. The 27 EU states have approved the deal, so that makes her position look even worse. Nor can she now change her mind, as that will cause even more problems.
Gasp, what arrogance! Looks like the SNP are heading the way of Scottish Labour – unless something is done to sort things fast.
Eminently sensible suggestion by Dr Tim Rideout.
Thanks for bringing all these things to light Stuart. My preference would be for the SNP MPs to declare the Treaty of Union over and walk out of the House of Commons, but if they do not have the courage to do this then at the very least they have to abstain. Anything else would be an act of political suicide by the SNP and would harm independence immeasurably.
I have also been contemplating the fact as we approach the end of the year that Brexit is a glaring and unequivocal breaking of the Treaty of Union. A crime in plain sight on which the SNP are silent. Why?
This is precisely why I believe the SNP is beyond saving at this stage. Wishart should be setting an example as the most senior MP yet acts like a petulant child, time and time again. You just can’t take that man seriously. How could we win Independence with people like that in positions of power?
Neil says:
29 December, 2020 at 12:27 pm
“You’re a busted flush Campbell. Google Trends doesn’t lie. Your third rate ramblings and personal anger have no place in Scottish politics. It’s time you pulled the plug on this tawdry website and get yourself a proper job. #justsaying”
Hiya Pete!
He’s trending on Twitter!
Best comment so far:
“I like the idea that Pete Wishart may be blissfully unaware that this is all going on because he’s blocked so many of us on Twitter”
@Dr Tim Rideout.
Your suggestions are excellent. Ive been at one of your presentations and was there at the conference when we voted for what you were proposing on currency while the leadership sat there with faces on them like a skelped arse.
Good luck with all you do. It’s such a shame that morons like Wishart are acting in a way that could scupper independence if you ask me. By accident or design though, who knows?
So, although we already know the answer, this will be a litmus test for what the party leadership really and truly is.
Back in the day this would either not have happened, or if it did, would have been clearly and efficiently dealt with by a proactive leadership who knew that ANY crack or flaw in the party would set the cause back.
If this is either ignored, or draped over with the current ‘inscrutable leadership knows best’ approach favoured by the current administration, we can stop speculating – under Sturgeon and Murrell, we are now led by ScotLab 2, handwringing in sympathy for “our” plight, and pointing at how the evil Tories (or Labour, it doesn’t really matter) are treating us.
Glasgow still has the largest cluster of socially and economically deprived areas in Western Europe. We are still handing national revenue and GDP to a foreign govt. who is either pissing it against a wall, giving it to their chums, or leveraging it to keep an S+P or Moody’s credit rating that benefits hedge fund managers and their clients.
There are urgent and critically important reasons that we NEED independence, it’s not a nice to have, progressive idea. It’s a means to save and improve the lives and livelihoods of the people of this country. This formerly dynamic and agile party has become a career path for the parasitic petit bourgouisie and, God help us, the Scottish “political” class.
Said it before, sayin it again. Time to burn it all down, and the only people who can do that (and yes, you can) are the ordinary members who remember why they joined, but have forgotten what power and agency they have.
If PW ever deigns to stand for election anywhere in future I will make it my mission to go there and actively campaign for his opponent. He is Ignorance and Arrogance personified.
Wisharts 21 majority was in the 2017 election. It improved at the last one.
So he’s giving a speech at WM tomorrow is he. Until the advent of Blackford, his speeches were the ultimate in hot air. Painful, even in a time when his constituents like me thought he was genuine about Indy.
I predict that if it follows his usual pattern of speechifying, the first 70% of it will be blowing hot air and sycophantic kisses at this ‘right honourable members on the other side of the house’ followed by some long winded construct that fails to make a point in the same way melted snow sinks into the mud, but without the same level of excitement.
Can’t wait.
Hey Pete Wishart, you’ve been in Westminster for 20 years and you know your job?
Where’s our independence then???
I completely agree with Dr Rideout about the vote, the SNP shouldn’t bother turning up, it will pass anyway regardless, they should stay in Scotland and spend the day campaigning for indy IMO.
Everybody should have these ‘benevolent’ guys supporting them.
link to freemasonry.network
link to ame-ema.eu
There are not many pies these guys and fellow travelers don’t have a hand in, US Congress, EU, UN, the Vatican…the original influencers in effect.
I do wonder if the restraining hand on Mrs Murrell’s shoulder might not sport a symbol of the craft.
All that global, one world buddy buddy stuff sits awkwardly with Scotland’s cause and the lady herself is no ‘nationalist’.
Evidence suggests freemasonry developed as a faux religious, networking cult in the 18th century ie after the Union and may have been effective in keeping Scotland’s rulers on the socio-political square.
The tartan unionists, the Jacobites dabbled in it too.
Very interesting over on Craig Murray’s twitter.
Senior (non Brit) MEP been approached to support the view that Scotland could re-join the EU, but only after an IndyRef approved by Westminster. Declined to say if he was approached by Brit Gov or Scot Gov. – (though that hardly seems to matter these days).
They REALLY don’t like the idea of Plebiscite Election do they. No wonder, they Can’t stop it, even if they win it, there will be another one along in 5 years time – so if they fail to keep their ‘vows’ they can be found out in 5 years time and held to account. Or if their intention is to asset strip at full tilt, and dismantle Devolution, at full speed, it will look bad. Michtie me.
The more one looks at the positives of a Plebiscite Election on Indy – the more benefits and strengths it shows up.
Tomorrows vote in HoC is going to be incredibly important day for Yes Supporters.
All those MP’s who Abstain will be identifying themselves as putting Scotland’s Indy first.
They cannot vote in a way that achieves either Brexit option, when Scotland voted overwhelmingly to Remain in the EU, and gave them a Mandate for Indy if forced against our will to leave.
They cannot. And one does not have to be a political geek to figure it out, or Frame it Fancy not to understand it.
God knows what long winded, convoluted pish, dancing on the head of a pin, Cosy Feet’s going to come up with. Boris will like it.
I attended online the off conference discussion on Currency options via a link on Prof Richard Murphy’s blog. Dr Rideout’s presentation was excellent, clear, erudite and convincing. It’s a great pity Wishart didn’t login to learn something. He might then have a very different attitude to Dr Rideout.
His contempt for the party members who voted Dr Rideout both onto the NEC and as Policy Convenor deserve an apology from Wishart MP.
From Pete Wishart’s autobiography:
“…and with my heart racing, I blushed with with excitement when I was asked if I would accept a Peerage and take my place in the glorious House of Lords…”
Wishart is my MP. What do people suggest I do when it comes to voting? I’m no fan of Pete. He seems to have completely lost the plot. But, as he’s the bloke that SNP keep putting up at the general election, what choice do I have? Do I just not vote? Do I vote for any other unionist party?
Well that’s good to know Pete Wishart has got an amazing speech prepared for tomorrow .
No doubt he and the others will give them Hell in meaningless hot air and then vote Against the B.Deal.
I have emailed my M.P Kirsten Oswald and wait to see how all this goes down!!
To Dr Tim, mucho respect,
to yon other idiot, deselect
I, like many commenters before, am aghast.
About a year ago, I attended one of rideout’s talks and he crisply explained how the world,and the nation, be improved by the policies that are in place be devolved to scotland.
I was familiar,and fully supportive, of his position.
I took the bus up to musselburgh, got a lift back.
I asked the speaker about the job guarantee,which is a cornerstone, and he referred me to cameron brodie.
My heart sank a little.
But I had a cheerful lift home.
I slept well, because limpet fish like ms/whatever brodie were trying to attach,meant there is something going on.
Boasting that he’s been doing the same thing for 20 years kinda proves he does need to be told how to do his job since he won’t consider any options that might make him step out of those cosy slippers in London. Do you think he has the big baffies that plug into a socket?
Pete’s speech – a draft…
Thank you Mr Speaker for the wonderful honour to attend this great house at this festive period and may I take this opportunity for thanking all the right honourables for attending and wish them, and all their families, and constituencies, a wonderful festive period. Covid, covid, covid.
It’s a particular honour for me to attend, coming all the way from Perth, in Scotchland, to the Mother of Parliaments, set in one of the greatest cities in the world, and being allowed the opportunity to erudite in this voluptuous setting….
Say something positive and grovelling about a tory. Admire Boris’s tie or something. Play the game.
(Continue in this vein for another 7 minutes). Be ever so grateful.
Last 2 minutes, light mention of the fact Scotland did not vote for Brexit, glance over fact Scottish Government excluded from negotiations, don’t mention the fishing, or the whiskey, or food standards, NHS Privatisation, Scottish Farming, Whiskey.
Last sentence – Brexit Deal is bad, so we vote it down and hope no-one notices a No Deal Brexit even worse.
(End note, ever so grateful for the opportunity to speak… add something about representing Constituents. Try and fit the words ‘democratic outrage’ in somewhere, no make it ‘democratic deficit’, much less confrontational, don’t want to rouse the rebels.)
There. Suitably flowery, long winded, and lacking in anything resembling courage of conviction. Tickie boxes, tickie boxes.
Pete Wishart needs to resign , and he’s not alone.
Ronald Fraser says:
29 December, 2020 at 2:44 pm
From Pete Wishart’s autobiography:
“…and with my heart racing, I blushed with with excitement when I was asked if I would accept a Peerage and take my place in the glorious House of Lords…”
—————————————————————-
Looks the part don’t you think ?
Jeezus. If your 12-year-old son wrote something as puerile as Wishart’s response you’d be ashamed. I so loathe that man. Utter, utter bellend.
Wishart s reply is unacceptable to anyone who has
Offered their views in a polite and well structured letter.
To respond with such arrogance to a Senior Party Policy maker
who is well qualified and experienced is beyond contempt.
Pete, you will never be elected again and on your exit after 20 years
all you have gained is personal finances and particularly nasty manner.
Pompous arrogant and entitled – forgetting altogether he is a public servant and only owes his position to us voters. Going the same way as the entitled labour mp’s who only serve themselves and get further and further away from those they are suppose to serve.
Call me old fashioned, but I have this naive belief that party policy should be determined by our membership.
Call me old fashioned but I have this naive belief that SNP MPs should not block SNP party members on social media, when they engage in polite but serious debate. Which is exactly what Wishart did with me. I never swore at him, I never insulted him, I addressed the point and not the man (even though he is indeed an odious little oink), because some things are more important than the like or dislike of the representative in question. I even proved I was an active SNP member.
And yet he blocked me, without notice and without explanation.
In the weeks since I have seen nothing but garbage from him, and being a member of SNP Members for Independence (which was instrumental in changing the makeup of the NEC in recent elections – something he and Alyn Smith and many in their orbit were displeased about despite it being party makeup being decided by the membership, exactly what he professes to support) I am aware that he has blocked many active members of the SNP, many of whom have treated him with no disrespect at all.
Here is a man who pays lip service to the idea of the “party membership” but is quick to dismiss that same membership when and if it disagrees with him, because he simply does not countenance that anyone who disagrees with him should be heard.
I seem to remember MPs from another Scottish party having that attitude and it did not end well for them…
How dare a respected person try to point out the obvious to some SNP MP’s, is the feeling I get towards Mr Rideout, and therein lies the problem the SNP are not for listening when they should be.
Wishart shows the worst of this self-centred arrogance that led us to this point, he’s even more obtuse knowing fine well he’s got a few more years of slurping the Westminster trough before his constituents can bin him for good.
Wishart’s arrogant attitude is rife amongst Sturgeon’s clique, an unwillingness to listen and possibly learn, it is shunned for we know what we want and we know how to do it, that know it all attitude is how we’re in the precarious position that we’re in.
Of course Wishart who wanted to be HoC speaker that’s how embedded he is in Westminster, says he wants Scottish independence but I’m not so sure, he’d lose his lucrative salary and subsidies and be out of a job.
Perhaps one has to wonder why Pete Wishart was the only person to respond to an email that went out to many people. I have a suspicion that Sturgeon and Murrell etc are simply doing anything and everything to destroy the possibility of a referendum
I do also have to add that I keep hoping and praying that everything that has gone on re SNP and AS for the past two years, is part of the most devious, brilliant and daring Sun Tzu masterplan, thought up and carried out by a cabal of ‘yessers’ and framed in such a way as to bring the Scottish population on board for Independence, rather than it being a party political thing. I know I’m not right but I have stored Pandora’s Box away very carefully just in case.
I am absolutely fuming. I think it’s the first time I’ve posted on a public platform using this kind of language, but Pete Wishart is a shit (and his band wasn’t all that great either).
Wishart’s reply looks like a clear breach of the party’s code of conduct as does his further twitter comments. Has wishart been so anonymous as an MP that constituents have never contacted him asking he should vote a certain way! I remember the last election when wishart was close to getting kicked out – no wonder. Wishart has lost the plot and spends more time trolling SNP members than promoting independence – there should be no place for him in the SNP. He has to go.
To each and every one of you that implies Wishart is the slimiest hypocrite, that he personifies the “settle down” mindset of the SNP in Westminster, that he cares more for his pension than for independence, that he opens his mouth before he engages his brain, and that if he were chocolate he would eat himself….
Are you saying Alyn Smith has competition?
Wow…..the change…..the difference….in an MP who went from a slim majority (21) PRE 2019 GE to then get an increased majority POST Dec 2019 GE from his previous result .
NOT down to anything he directly did…other than joining in talking the talk in HOC and Twitter…..indeed he kept his HOC seat for the SNP in Dec 2019 largely due to the actions of the opposition….an opposition that he was/is supposedly, together with some of his colleagues, holding to account with…..words…and then….even more words.
Has anyone checked pre/post Dec 2019 GE how many Indy peeps Wishart blocked….or dismissed with …..words…….if I remember correctly he was, pre Dec 2019 GE , grovelling for votes and I am sure was somewhat much more magnanimous towards those who ‘suggested’ he win his seat in order to get Indy Ref 2 started……ASAP.
What a difference and change a newly retained political seat, with an increased majority , makes to the temperament of am MP who seems to have adopted the same tactics of the very people that he would have us believe….Do not listen to us…..
Pray tell me Mr Wishart is the irony truly lost in your arguing that Scots, via the opposition, are ignored in the Union while you yourself are simultaneously ignoring those same Scots, dismissing their concerns, suggestions and also blocking them on a social media platform if they fail to fall into line with YOUR ‘plan’….which seems , to the insider/outsider, involves mainly speaking…..yet more words….that seem to be falling on deaf ears in HOC….way to go…..did we, the voters, vote only for you and your colleagues to just SPEAK on our behalf but NOT,nay NEVER indeed… perish the thought instigate ACTION i.e. begin the process of actually campaigning for independence via Indy Ref 2…..you know that ‘raison d’etre for your political party’s existence/creation…..yes ?
Here’s a starter for you……your colleague Mr Blackford stated in the HOC, via WORDS, ” Scotland will not be taken out of the EU against it’s will”…..well guess what….we f**king have been…so the ball is in your party’s court …so less cheek/sarcasm towards those of us who now have to live in the reality of having left the EU against our will and a bit more civility/respect towards those of us who seek a solution to get back in…..clue…..use words but only words to be used if backed up by some REAL action.
Your welcome…..
ps. Let’s have less ” this looks bad for the UK in breaking international law ” via SNP Internal Market Bill speeches in HOC as your party is wanting to LEAVE the UK remember?…concentrate on Scotland getting independence not just forever keeping the status quo of devolved powers via devolution under a WM UK Government……cause that for sure is being well and truly f**ked by the Tories and their Brexit.
Once again Your Welcome……
I honestly thought that email reply from Peak Wetfart was a parody and was waiting for The Rev’s punchline below. It’s absolutely disgraceful conduct from him, though not at all surprising.
I’m just perplexed as to where he gets such an inflated sense of superiority from. Without his privileged career politician lifestyle, he would be churning out third rate teuchter emo pop with Runrig. Come to think of it, the thought of him leaving Westminster and reverting back to that, almost makes me want to give up on independence, paint my hand red and shout “No Surrender!”
It’s a tight race,for sure.
Some interesting takeaways from this:
1) Wishart evidently did not realise who he was responding to. So this is the manner that he considers acceptable to deal with a polite member of the public.
2) Wishart, having realised his error, is not big enough to apologise, and nobody is forcing him to.
3) Most importantly, the SNP leadership are fostering an environment without discipline, care or media scrutiny. This laziness, incompetence and complacency is the natural and predictable result of that.
SNP HQ are trying to occupy a fragile and vacuous space between this obscene reality and their confected media-manipulated fantasy. The two are growing further apart each day.
It can’t last.
And this blog post is the reason I’m no longer an SNP member ….. entitlement is entrenched in certain SNP MPs [looking at you Alyn & Pete] time they were made to eat some “humble pie”. Dr Tim Rideout is a far better man.
Cosy feet Pete, will be out on his arse come May elections Yipeeeeee!!!
Anyone with some kind of medical expertise on today ?
I am assuming Pete boy is suffering from some kind of early onset Dementia , every time Pete makes a comment about how things are progressing and gives us the benefit of his experience I put my head in my hands and think how the fk did he become a MP , how did he manage to pull off this gig how in gods name did he manage it , ok Pete you might have got used to performing this particular event is not to publicise you Pete you are just a part of it ,
You are not the main event .
I bloody give up recently a close look at our representatives fills me with dread , before when things were just about normal no one bothered to much ,now if you scratch the surface and more questions appear and they ain’t bloody encouraging , lots of people here contributing to some kind of plan or vision then you turn to some people in the SNP and scratch your head , and say fk not another one exactly how many idiots are on the Payroll .
As I said yesterday these SNP MPs think they were elected on personal votes. Completely wrong. They were elected on the back of an SNP ticket and Independence. Pete Wishart being a case in point. Blocking constituent voters on social media is an example of their arrogance not ours. I don’t recall my MP calling me arrogant when I spent hours posting election material in letterboxes for him to win. Times are changing, the betrayal will not be forgotten. I will be watching their behaviour and reporting on their frailties. Make it difficult for them. Let’s face it the SNP leaked like a sieve. Plenty of fun coming up.
The Wishart/Dr Rideout email exchange demonstrates the fundamental reason for the decline of the SNP.
The Murrells’ preference for semi-literate, half-wit sycophants over the intelligent and articulate alternatives.
Tomorrow the EU’s 27 states will be treated to one of Blackford’s ridiculous rant/beetroot impression combinations, followed by the SNP’s choice of no deal rather than their unanimously agreed deal. What an embarrassment.
The final nail will be hammered into the coffin of Nicola’s EU career aspirations.
@clapper57 absolutely spot on, not an ounce of fight in anyone of them, Scotland’s in a bad bad way just now what a mess.
Just what is it with the pitiful patter of Petes’.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Please note that the ‘Wull’ posting above @ 1.59 pm is NOT ME. Granted that he uses a capital ‘W’, while mine has always been with a small ‘w’, his name is VERY SLIGHTLY different from mine. Is the arrival of this ‘Wull’ posting on this site – his arrival seems to be recent – therefore legitimate? Or is it a deliberate attempt to cause confusion?
So please note that the rather obvious comment, which others already made, as copied below is NOT from me. Thank you.
Here is the CAPITAL W Wull’s rather obvious comment, which is not mine and for which I am not responsible:
Wull says:
29 December, 2020 at 1:59 pm
Gasp, what arrogance! Looks like the SNP are heading the way of Scottish Labour – unless something is done to sort things fast.
Finally, I wonder if Rev. Stu could let me know whether this kind of thing is OK, or whether it will be barred as an attempt to cause confusion. If it is OK with Rev. Stu, of course I accept that decision – it is his site, not mine. But if it is deemed OK, I think others on the site might find that their names come to be duplicated, or quasi-duplicated in the same, or similar ways.
There are many ways to cause confusion; and this site no doubt has many enemies, who would like to destroy it altogether. And if they can’t do that, they would like to cause as much confusion as possible.
I would ask this new ‘Wull’ therefore to add a number or a further letter (as for instance, the person called ‘wulls’ has done, perfectly legitimately in my view) or some other identifying mark that would make it clear that he is not me.
I send this with my apologies for its OT nature, but I think it’s something that needs looked at. On the point immediately at issue, I want to thank Dr. Tim for his eminently sensible suggestion, for the action he is taken and all the excellent work he does for the cause, and for his restraint and politeness in the way he goes about it, even when confronted with the total opposite from someone who should know better.
I won’t say anything about that someone, since he seems not to be worth either the space or the comment. Dr. Tim is right to ignore him. I hope his constituents will ignore him too when they are given the next opportunity. And that once the SNP eventually sort themselves out – or much sooner, in fact, since that might take a while – they will take the necessary and appropriate action against him.
As far as I know they have not run out of buses under which to throw people. Unless, of course, their buses are reserved for the innocent, and ‘not in service’ for anyone else.
David Lyon:
Their innate distaste for the most fertile, good natured independence community a politician could hope for, has evolved from revulsion and progressed straight to resentful hatred.
It’s funny, but whenever I’m forced to think about Pete Wishart, I’m always reminded of George Foulkes. Now, I’m not suggesting that Pete has the same tendency to imbibe, but just the sheer oafish stupidity, that dullard, imbecilic simpleton that Foulkes has made a career out of, mainly because, other dull simpleton’s keep voting for him.
PW’s reply, which highlights his lack of manners and his condescending arrogance is reflective of someone who’s simply been in the job too long. It’s that straightforward.
Like many on here, pre 2014, I joined the SNP, enrolling my Wife & two Daughters in the party also, but made the decision earlier this year to leave, due to my dissatisfaction, at the lack of progress and importance given to the ONLY reason I joined the party and the ONLY reason Wishart attends the HOC for, which is to help bring independence for our country.
On another subject entirely, I was recently browsing an article on ‘Narcissistic Personality Disorder’, and thought I would share an excerpt:
‘Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing ..’.
@ wull
You have my sympathy on that score as there was previously another Dan and Danny posting at one point which led to muchos confusion, particularly because that Danny was an arse that eventually got banned iirc.
It is frustrating because folk don’t always quote the exact name of poster they are referring to which adds to confusion and misrepresentation.
You could consider getting a gravatar image organised for yourself which will help identify you.
We will all be grateful to weak pisart for illustrating beyond any doubt that there are self interested carreerists at the top of the party. More and more of the membership are understanding that now. We can congratulate him with our sincere thanks when he’s booted out the door next time round. After that, who will care what obscurity he chooses to disapear into. We need to make sure of independence and then the peerage he obviously covets will be gone forever.
On the same note, this is robertknight posting, not “Robert Knight”, who is no doubt far better looking, of greater intelligence and more popular with the ladies than I ever could be.
Pete Wishart is genuinely showing every sign of not needing anyone to gaslight him.
That horrible, arrogant, ignorant, sneering cunt Pishart should fuck off back up Big Ben and never come back down.
Oh man, there’s that cultural hostility to experts that characterises Tory populism. If this is the best the SNP has, then it does look like we need a new party.
Hannah Arendt’s Revolutionary Leadership
link to hannaharendt.net
Thanks Dan @ 4.13 pm. Good idea – but, being far from computer-savvy, I don’t know how to do it. Will ask around, and try to find out.
Graeme 3.01
Excellent…it was meant to be.
@CameronB Brodie
We do need a new party. The SNP have morphed into New Labour or is that Old Labour. Either way the result is the same . Electoral oblivion. I prefer to watch my own polls. The SNP are a party that has been diminished. They heard it here first on this blog.
@David Lyon @15h42
Well said; the only thing I would disagree with that he didn’t know.
He didn’t care who it was, his objective was to show off what he thought was his razor-sharp wit to his ‘mates’ – hence the ‘reply to all’ .
He’s too thick to see that his ‘put down’ schtick is as funny as skitters in a spacesuit and that not everyone on the list thinks as highly of him as he does himself.
He can never apologise – too small a man as you say – and he feels that doubling down makes him look big.
There is an contagious illness that has taken over snps in the Scottish goverment,,
Some of the symptoms are as follows,
A, forgetfulness shows in many ways and as you can see, most snp members forget which party they are in.
B. This forgetfulness also shows up when they are asked what the purpose of the party was elected for.
C. Disingenuous behaviour. Towards those whom are family members.
D. Quick to show arrogance.
E. Disassociation syndrome.
F. Becoming deaf to others around them.
G. Having a sense of the grass is always greener on the other side
H. Shouting and making no noise.
I. Having an insurmountable feeling of wanting ermine and riches.
J. Attention seeking.
K. The feeling of Being useless in a modern world.
L. No empathy for the down trodden voters or their own country.
I having fun doing this, anyone like to add to these snp symptoms, they shouldn’t be in lockdown, they should be locked up. ?
There is an contagious illness that has taken over snps in the Scottish goverment,,
Some of the symptoms are as follows,
A, forgetfulness shows in many ways and as you can see, most snp members forget which party they are in.
B. This forgetfulness also shows up when they are asked what the purpose of the party was elected for.
C. Disingenuous behaviour. Towards those whom are family members.
D. Quick to show arrogance.
E. Disassociation syndrome.
F. Becoming deaf to others around them.
G. Having a sense of the grass is always greener on the other side
H. Shouting and making no noise.
I. Having an insurmountable feeling of wanting ermine and riches.
J. Attention seeking.
K. The feeling of Being useless in a modern world.
L. No empathy for the down trodden voters or their own country.
I having fun doing this, anyone like to add to these snp symptoms, they shouldn’t be in lockdown, they should be locked up. ?
To be fair to Pete he was a good drummer. Oh that was Dougie Vipond so Pete has always been an utter tosser. As you were.
@James Che 4 54
M Lack of appreciation of the effort of others.
Has anybody else noticed that whenever Sturgeon’s toxic stance is challenged by anybody from the Yes grassroots, it is always the exact same actors that quickly spring to action as shields to protect her arse?
I do not know about the rest here, but I am quite fed up of always listening to the same people protecting her: Yousaf, Smith, Wishart, Robertson, Blackford and Black. It is like the rest of the SNP MPs and MSPS do not exist.
with regards to Wishart’s
“I will never vote for anything that even gives the impression of approval of their disastrous brexit”
Either this man is incredibly naive or he thinks the electorate are fools.
I do not think you need an above average IQ to realise that by voting when there is deliberately no option offered for “no brexit”, by participating in the vote, no matter what choice Mr Wishart chooses to go for, he will be in fact endorsing “their disastrous brexit” and embracing it with both hands and feet.
Anybody with a modicum of common sense and no underlying interest in promoting England’s interests on this, realises that there is only one way left to avoid voting for “anything that gives the impression of approval of their disastrous brexit” and that is not just by abstaining, but by refusing to give legitimacy to the vote. You do that by refusing to take the seats during the vote and announcing from the rooftops why you are not legitimising that vote.
Voting for no brexit or even abstaining while taking the seats like sheep is the same as legitimising that vote and accepting (on our behalf) that it is done on behalf of Scotland. That is not in Scotland’s interests. It is in England’s interests.
Wishart or any other SNP MP has no right to go against the expressed democratic will of the people of Scotland. Handing Scotland’s consent for brexit by the back door as he is about to do and against Scotland’s will is not “his job” as an SNP MP. It may be under some other employer with England’s interests at heart, but certainly not as an SNP MP elected on a mandate to give Scotland a choice and to stop brexit.
To the SNP MPs:
Legitimising that vote by taking your seats and handing Scotland’s consent for brexit by the back door is a betrayal of Scotland’s expressed democratic will and you know it. You have no right to sell Scotland like that and you will not be forgiven by the voters if you choose to do so.
That was nasty and an uncalled for response to a college.
Tim Rideouts quite reasonable suggestion merited consideration at the very least.
I like many others here would go farther.
Voting for or against this “Deal” is completely unacceptable for any Scottish MP.
To abstain opens the door to all the well deserved comments that it attracts and I don’t agree with the Rev that’s what they should do at all !
Mr Rideouts suggestion is,while some kind of solution , nevertheless somewhat parochial and a bit of a sop to Yes voters.
What I’d do
What I’d like to see them do .
Is to have Westminster prevent the Scottish MPs voting.
They should stand up one by one throughout the debate ( that’s 40 odd times ) and get flung out by the Westminster Parliament.
They should stand up and and deny that Parliaments right to drag Scotland out of the EU ( I know we are already out ) exactly as Ian Blackford has said time and time again.
When they have been flung out the choice then of how to vote is not then theirs to make.
Westminster and its rules has stopped them voting at all.
That’s the story which should be all round Europe the morning after and that’s the Broadcast I want to see from Westminster.
What have they to loose ?
We could then spend a few days exploring if Mr Speaker just ended the Union 🙂
And enjoy stealing Boris Johnstons thunder at the same time .
Why should we go out of the EU with a whimper and a voting line….our MPs should be looking to draw all the attention they can to out position in that parliament and it’ll not hurt their votes in may either I’d wager…..
Pete Wishart illustrates what happens when you allow an intellectual pygmy with a narcissistic personality to become an MP. He has sold the jersey too many times for any doubt that he is Westminster’s man first and last. A pathetic puppet dangling on an English string.
His ignorance of whom he was addressing his disdainful email was cringeworthy enough but his arrogance in refusing to apologise or admit his crass stupidity and rudeness when challenged really say sit all.
Tomorrow, instead of taking Dr. Rideout’s sage advice, Wishart will be confirming to history, yet again, that he is de facto a shameful heir to the parcel of rogues who betrayed us in 1707.
This egocentric placeman and friend to the landowners should be a prime target for removal by his local party members at the earliest opportunity.
I expect his speech tomorrow to be not a ‘cracker’ but of a standard that would be copied out of a ‘cracker’.
Tannadice Boy
They sell themselves as being social democrats, but I find it hard to distinguish them from New Labour. Which was Labour’s attempt to out-Tory the Tories. Given their approach to the law, it is clear to me that they have not liberated themselves from their internal British nationalism.
The Oxford Handbook of Political Psychology (2 ed.)
Introduction: Theoretical Foundations of Political Psychology
link to oxfordhandbooks.com
@Mia
I was meaning to write “voting for no deal brexit or even abstaining…”.
OT:
link to snp.org
Might be of interest to some members who see the flaws in the ‘Both Votes SNP’ argument. (Which I would guess is pretty much all the party members actually left on here??)
@CameronB Brodie 5 01
Out tory the tories. Look no further than Ian Blackford. The original Scottish Tory.
Wishart is an utter shitehawk,who doesn’t even mention SNP in his Twitter headline stating simply MP for Perth and Kinross.A party name change is now required,i.e. the Scottish Independence Party to flush these interlopers out.FFS he is even a member of the HOC “rock band” wait for it MP4. Jesus wept what an absolute fraud.
Reading Wishart’s reply to Tim Rideout reinforces why so many detest absolute scum that Wishart is.
As a near 40 year member I could not now vote for a lush like Wishart. And a lush who has so treacherously filled his boots in a Westminster sinecure.
You’ll get no change out of a bastard like him.
@Nosey says:
29 December, 2020 at 3:46 pm
“Cosy feet Pete, will be out on his arse come May elections Yipeeeeee!!!”
No he won’t. He’s got 4 more years to go…
@ScotsRenewables 5 04
Your loyalty to the party has been noted. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. I have noted your defence of the indefensible. You have an admirable quality about you. I used to be the same. I just don’t see the SNP delivering Independence.
Mrs Murrell, such a good judge of character.
link to businessinsider.com
He may be pale, male and stale but he’ll climb into any political bed.
For your comfort, best keep socially distanced.
20 years an SNP mp is 20 years of failure. SNP mps are primarily voted into office by their constituents to end the union and end the need for Scotland to send representatives to the British parliament for ever. With each passing day he remains an mp is he not simply demonstrating his failure to do his job? The fact that he boasts of his longevity as an mp shows that he is either a fool or a Brit. (ie he’s in the wrong party). We don’t need any more Brits (or fools) in Scotland so perhaps he could just move home to be closer to his workplace and stay there permanently. Maybe some kind English resident who is not a Brit (or a fool) could relocate to Scotland to take his place. ‘Win win’ as they say.
I’ve not only studied this stuff, but I’ve also built a business from scratch. Despite a lack of start-up capital or previous experience in business. Though it eventually folded due to reasons, I grew it over a decade to the point where we were servicing pan-European contracts.
The Cognitive Underpinnings of Effective Teamwork: A Meta-Analysis
link to delta.gatech.edu
My god I had heard that Pete Wishart was pretty rude to people , but that reply is just so condescending. Such arrogance. He effectively says, how dare anybody in the SNP dare to tell Pete Wishart anything.
I like the idea of limiting SNP MP’s to a maximum of two terms, since people like Pete Wishart have just gotten way too cosy down in London.
This should be forever held up as an example of just how Westminster can consume the integrity and humanity of people. I do not doubt that 20 years ago Pete Wishart headed off to London to win independence for Scotland, but sadly, he now appears to me to be just a frankly arrogant wee man, too comfy in London by far. He seems to have lost sight of what it is he was elected for, and the party he represents.
He should resign, or be booted out of the SNP.
But this raises serious questions over the leadership of the SNP. What on earth are they thinking, they should not even be participating in this vote, which is an affront to democracy. Brexit is from England and the Tories it just keeps on electing. It has nothing to do with Scotland, and the SNP are deluded fools to play along.
If Nicola Sturgeon is not prepared to properly lead the SNP to independence (and put people like Wishart in his place), then it is now urgent that she moves aside to let a real leader take over.
Jeezo, Scotland is in peril, with Scots forcibly stripped of their EU citizenship, and this is the kind of c**p we get from SNP MP’s. The SNP, the ill-informed, do-nothing, condescending arrogance party.
Get an effing grip, Nicola.
Looks like peewee’s new word de jour is “arrogance”. As a Green I know who Tim Rideout is, having attended one of his excellent talks. UDI now!
Wishart’s reply must be a spoof.
It’s inconceivable he wrote that reply…..
Please, someone tell me I’m right
I would just like to say that I agree with every derogatory remark aimed at Wet Pishfart , that this self obsessed creature could engage in such a demeaning manner to anyone irrespective of stature or membership of party is indicative of the contempt these illustrious (in their minds) minions hold for the electorate
ONE of the reasons I desperately want independence is to bring our representatives and govt home to ensure that they WORK for Scotland and NOT for themselves , this CRETIN exemplifies the urgency of that need
I have been an advocate for a long long time for a REAL RECALL law for the Scottish Parliament ,to enable voters , the electorate and constituents to have greater control of OUR representatives , their demeanour , their ability , their professionalism , their honesty and integrity , and loyalty to the people of Scotland NOT their party
When we are independent we have the ability to realise we can DO THAT , build a proper country where VOTERS are respected and listened to , rather than put up with a MORON who thinks he’s untouchable and free to issue demeaning and caustic remarks to a person who holds a view contrary to theirs even though that view holds merit unlike theirs
Pete Wishart clearly does not represent his constituency for they would never write such a condescending, sarcastic, belittling piece of crap to anyone, far less a fellow SNP office holder.
Scotland’s political plight increasingly resembles the plot to Orwell’s Animal Farm.
Pish Washout gets my vote to play the part of Squealer.
Isn’t it the case that Sturgeon’s monstrous behaviour towards Alex has given the green light to her followers to treat the real nationalists in the SNP and wider movement with sociopathic disdain? Proof comes daily.
Much more of the fraudulent Sturgeon and her sycophants – or perhaps it should be psychophants – and an undefended Scotland will simply turn in on itself.
BBC National News, positively salivating at a record number of new cases in Scotland today.
No context at all – just putting the boot in.
If that is Pete Wishart’s response he should be dismissed.
It could always be the case more than Nicolla has been compromised.
In Rideout’s e mail I see perfect common sense. You should be thinking about your next step- -now.
I do like the idea of all the smaller nations voting no collectively but as he says it is a pointless exercise.
If Boris does keep up his position of No to indyref 2 I can see the day coming when the parting will get a lot rougher and the result will be the UK will have to beg to get any concessions from an independent Scotland.
Personally I would suggest keeping the nuclear weapons since they are on our soil and we can take their position in the UN security council. I have no time for this unilateral disarmament nonsense. Play a high moral principle card in a fight with Westminster and you will lose because they don’t give a flying fig for principle. Winning is that counts.
Wishart has schmoozed with those who own Perthshire, no wonder he is learning their arrogant, entitled behaviour. Remember he and Swinney being royally wined and dined in Dunkeld by the landowners’ lackeys? The same Perthshire where eagles are shot.
In 20 years, what exactly has Wishart achieved for Perthshire or for Scotland? I cannot think of one single example.
In reply to the content of this article, Wishart’s reply to Dr. Rideout was rude, unforgivable and unprofessional. Those of us who are PW’s constituents will not forget the arrogance and sheer laziness come the next election plus his apparent loathing of ordinary Scots.
Pride comes before a fall, Mr Wishart.
Liz g says:
29 December, 2020 at 4:59 pm
Ooo, I like that idea. Dare you send it in an email to Mr Wishart? I’d love to see his reply.
BBC 6pm news (England) revealing that there’s 50,000 new cases of Covid-19 in England in the last 24 hours. Video from a helicopter showed scores of ambulances queuing outside hospitals A&E’s because there’s no beds to be had, staff in uniforms going around the backs of open ambulances giving tea and coffee to patients fit enough to take it.
SAGE advisor on news saying that if England isn’t locked down completely the NHS (England) will collapse under the pressure.
It was only a couple of years ago that the Red Cross declared the NHS in England a national emergency.
@ Lizg.
Love your thinking.
I wanted the SNP at the WM Scottish Committee, when it was stuffed with English MP’s (red and blue) to get there early and supper glue the tory seats facing the wrong way.
And then keep changing the date, time, venue for the meet. After all, if the Scot Gov gets locked out of Brexit negotiations? What’s good for the goose.
Spineless wee Wisharts. Sorry, did I say that out loud… meant to say Wanks, not Wisharts.
And I wanted them to utilise the unionist weaknesses. Make video footage testing the MP toilets for evidence of Cocaine misuse, then wait until there was a big vote, affecting Scotland, and bring in the Drugs Sniffer Dogs, at voting time. Watch the wee bams run away and find an excuse not to attend.
‘course that was before Kit Kat Mharie got her nose in the trough and compromised SNP integrity on the issue. After that she became Mharie of the ‘Jeremy Hunts, and lets get sex workers into primary schools.
@ ROS
On a health note.
Mind those Nightingale hospitals.
link to twitter.com
link to opendemocracy.net
If you don’t sort your politicians out when they behave like this, then you are on a slippery slope towards a state of totalitarianism. Though that’s where our politics has been heading for some time now.
Creating a Climate of Respect
link to ascd.org
Dan @6.28pm.
Yes Dan, a shortage of staff well, the Tories did their best to chase away any foreigners working or applying to work in hospitals via Brexit, of course the Tories continue to undermine the NHS in the rest of the UK, which has a knock on effect via funding for the NHS in Scotland, another great reason to become an independent nation.
I’m surprised that England closed its Nightingale hospitals so early, the Louisa Jordan (SECC Glasgow) is still opened and in use as venue for multiple clinics.
@ Mia at 4.59
Yes, exactly. Sinn Féin do not take their seats because to participate in debates and votes about Westminster legislation would be to legitimize Westminster rule over part of Ireland. (This would be true even if the UK were a republic, though of course the oath to the monarch is another stumbling block.)
SNP MPs were not elected on an abstentionist manifesto, so there is a difference, but any vote at all (including an “official” abstention) tomorrow will do the opposite of what Wishart asserts.
Mia says:29 December, 2020 at 4:59 pm
Is there a way of emailing that last paragraph to every SNP MP en masse?
kapelmeister – how’s things at the SIU ?
republicofscotland
BBC at their usual game again today (I smell fudge) with a focus on the Scottish total infections and the English daily rather comparing similar numbers.
If you are interested the 7 day average infection rates are as follows:
Scotland Infections 1202
England infection 38363
As mentioned before if comparing the two multiply the Scottish figure by 10 to get the English figure. If England had the same infection rate as Scotland, they should have around 12000 cases per day. 38000 is a very big number!!
I can see why the BBC likes to draw ones attention away from this level of government incompetence, as a state broadcaster they speak for their masters.
The whole tone and style of that reply from Bleat Pishwart is like that of a spoiled, arrogant teenager, mistaking their dick behaviour for rapier wit.
And this was penned and sent ‘reply all’ by the SMP most senior serving MP?
For fucks sake… what an embarrassment and what an astonishing bellend.
@ Lizg at 4.59
Getting themselves thrown out is a great idea.
Unfortunately, since only a handful of them will actually be there in person, I fear they’ve missed the chance (there were several other votes where they could have done it effectively, I think).
7 deaths today I will take that everyday of Winter. The BBC are officially the propaganda unit of the SNP. Why?. They realise that stopping Independence is best served by supporting the SNP. Meanwhile I can tell you it’s a normal Winter in the NHS Scotland. The hard ice of today will lead to an increase of slip,trips and falls. Who do I believe? The BBC, The SNP, people that are working in wards or politicised official data?. I have real time information. A normal winter to report difficult for our NHS staff but not unusual.
He was a dick at college , looks like nothing has changed
I wonder if he’ll even have the guts to tweet about it..
“Does it include an apology to Dr. Tim Rideout? It should.”
“Hahaha. I’m not sure if all the MPs will get another email from him arrogantly telling us how we should do our jobs. Suspect not….”
link to twitter.com
Shug @6.40pm.
I’m quite surprised the BBC reported the very high figures in England, however ITV news for England also reported the numbers, infact ITV reported 53,000 for England over the last 24 hours whilst the BBC reported 50,000.
ITV reported 424 deaths as well.
You know in 5 years Wishart will be sitting next to George Foulkes in the House of Lords, laughing at each others’ insult tweets to Independence-minded Scots….after a long day in one of the parliament’s subsidised bars, having had a great subsidised 3-course meal, comparing pensions, how many days they’ve racked up in daily attendance fees, and the decline in standards in taxpayer-subsidised accommodation. He’s a total dinosaur.
I think some MPs may be enjoying the “high” life a bit too much. It would be quite revealing if they were to be tested and then barred from office!
Pete Wishart is a cunt. That is all
It’s a very long time since I was trained to support “cognitive democracy”, but I though this might give folks a taste of what they are being denied by British nationalists. And those who take after them.
Cognitive Diversity, Binary Decisions, and Epistemic Democracy
link to vanderbilt.edu
“In Democratic Reason, Helene Landemore has built a case for the epistemic virtues of inclusive deliberative democracy based on the cognitive diversity of the group engaged in making collective decisions. She supports her thesis by appealing to the Diversity Trumps Ability Theorem of Lu Hong and Scott Page.
In practice, deliberative assemblies often restrict attention to situations with only two options. In this paper, it is shown that it is not possible to satisfy the assumptions of the Diversity Trumps Ability Theorem when decisions are binary. The relevance of this theorem for democratic decision-making in non-binary situations is also considered.”
Yer arse Stuart.
You regularly say far worse to your punters, even on occasions when they make salient points.
And here’s a bit more on “cognitive democracy”.
COMPETENCES FOR DEMOCRATIC CULTURE
Living together as equals in culturally diverse
democratic societies
link to rm.coe.int
“This document describes a conceptual model of the competences which need to be acquired by learners if they are to participate effectively in a culture of democracy and live peacefully together with others in culturally diverse democratic societies.
It is intended that the model will be used to inform educational decision making and planning, helping educational systems to be harnessed for the preparation of learners for life as competent democratic citizens.”
Pete Wishart at it again.
Here he 100% backs a commenter that walking out (its a virtual vote but still)if SNP MP’s were actually in the HoC would be the wrong thing to do said Wishart.
If I recall correctly the last time SNP MP’s walked out the party jumped by 5000 members, and many folk respected the action. Scotland is being damaged in just about every way due to Brexit, yet Wishart and his SNP MP’s can’t even bring themselves to protest about in a physical way.
link to twitter.com
@Dakk,
Stu’s not an MP representing my constituency. Wishart however is. The end.
republicofscotland
The BBC will report the correct numbers but they always divert away from the main point when it suits them
You will have to dig to find the truth
It is like the newspapers providing a headline saying one thing above a text which describes something quite different
We do have to think about how we break this reporting model in an independent Scotland and how we manage down Westminster influence over the press and media.
@ ROS
You mentioning the Tories chasing foreigners away and it reminded me of many of the EU Nationals that live locally to me that I am in touch with, and will chase up to see how they are getting on.
Because of that thought I went looking for this recent tweet.
“If you are an EU citizen ordinarily living in the UK before 2021 you should apply NOW as all current EHI cards will expire on the 31st of December 2020”
link to twitter.com
And through scanning her feed to get to that tweet I found Baffyman was still at it.
link to twitter.com
He really should be a little less of a know all arse… Because he doesn’t know it all, in fact at a talk for EU Nationals that he and Mr Swinney were holding, there were points in the meeting they ceded to a Councillor in the audience that was better informed and able to explain certain matters to those attending better than either the MP or MSP.
And here’s a bit more on “cognitive democracy”, and why it’s crucial to constitutional justice.
An Outline of Cognitive Democracy
link to lapietradialogues.org
“Democracy is uniquely fitted to help people with highly diverse perspectives to come together to solve problems collectively. Democracy can do this better than either markets and hierarchies, because it brings these diverse perceptions into direct contact with each other, allowing forms of learning that are unlikely either through the price mechanism of markets or the hierarchical arrangements of bureaucracy.
Furthermore, democracy can, by experimenting, take advantage of novel forms of collective cognition that are facilitated by new media. Together, our arguments outline a cognitive approach to democracy.”
@ Bob Mack
Say no more.
And a bit more on “cognitive democracy”, from a perspective informed by bio-ethics and stuff. Well that’s what town planners can bring to the game. 😉
Democratic Biopolitics Revisited: A Response to a Critique
link to criticallegalthinking.com
Beaker says:
29 December, 2020 at 1:56 pm
Quote
“Fair comment, but it has backfired badly. It’s made waves alright – tidal waves. The 27 EU states have approved the deal, so that makes her position look even worse. Nor can she now change her mind, as that will cause even more problems.”
This is the BIG issue that is quietly floating downstream..
Does NS actually believe the EU does, or would, value Scotland MORE than the UK?
So. Another wee “tactical” error slips out…..
She’s OFFSKI, and sooner than any of you can think, you just watch….
I am beginning to think wee pishy pete wishy might have a wee pishy wishy drink problem
Referee, free speech, free comment is admirable. But can I appeal to the referee and to Cameron B Brodie to rein in the prodigious cut and paste blogging.
I don’t know about other folks Cameron, and I support open comment, but your spamming, your trolling, however intellectual academic or just downright wonderful you think it is, fair craps up the pages for most of us.
Sorry to say so but I suspect for speak for many. Tone it down a bit, please.
FFS.
(All speakers I’ve heard so far arguing for a Scottish currency have been supporters of MMT and full employment, but opposed to UBI. Why cant MMT, etc & UBI coxist? However…)
I’m gobsmacked at Pete’s unprofessionalism. Terrible SNP ambassador.
Whilst I might have chuckled at such a response to a communication from the likes of Nigel Farage, I’d still have thought it unprofessional.
To respond to an SNP member in this way reveals how he views fellow SNP members. Any idea from anywhere, inside or outwith the SNP should be seriously considered if it has merit. Common courtesy would be to take time to explain using reasoned arguments about why an idea might be bad.
Courtesy there was not.
willie
see sunglasses?
scroll past.
“Does NS actually believe the EU does, or would, value Scotland MORE than the UK?”
The $64k question.
Is any arsehole on here likely to really know that any more than her or the SNP in general?
Maybe she is offski, yes. But maybe she also fancies herself as Samson. Which means, in finally going, she is determined to bring the whole house down with her.
And how can she be Samson? Very simply … by self-declaration. And you had better believe it …
@Hamley Hayes,
EU loves Scotland? I remember the SNP lightshow projected onto the EU Commision building stating that very thing.
The EU reported it to the police. Nicola stated it was the EU showing their love ,but in fact it was dknd by a business from Edinburgh hired by the SNP.
They were warned re future conduct.
BuggerLePanda says:
29 December, 2020 at 11:27 am
“He should stick to musical notes rather than Treasury ones.” Please, no. Don’t inflict that on us on top of everything else.
I appreciate some would rather WOS was simply a talking shop, but I think the owner might like it to be more than that. So I thought I’d actually point folk towards a considerable amount of practical knowledge that is supportive of open democracy.
Education for democracy is not spamming.
ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS OF EDUCATION FOR DEMOCRACY:
WHAT ARE THEY AND WHY SHOULD THEY BE AT THE
CORE OF THE CURRICULUM IN SCHOOLS?
link to civiced.org
@Cameron,
Sorry to be pedantic but,
You too are only a member of a talking shop IF you are only posting research and law rather than putting them into action yourself.
Bob Mack
The only way I can put the law and stuff it into action, is by posting it btl, as our government is part of the British state. Which adopts a racist and paternalistic stance towards Scotland. The SNP have simply turned into the tartan Tories, so we are all on to plumbs, unfortunately.
@Crazy cat who said
“Sinn Féin do not take their seats because to participate in debates and votes about Westminster legislation would be to legitimize Westminster rule over part of Ireland”.
True. But fundamentally . ..
SF are an Irish party. Since they believe the English have no right to be in Ireland and never had, by the same token, SF have no reason or right to participate in any English government in Britain.
All SF MPs are elected on this abstentionist ticket, so their voters are fully aware, and approve, of this policy.
The SNP could have proposed a similar policy at any Convention and had it approved or not, as members wanted
You’re spot on, Willie. He should start his own blog and see exactly how many people are interested in the quasi intellectual drivel he constantly posts.
Until then, scroll past!
Well. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Stu, Wishart’s gratuitous snide, sneering, insulting, arrogant reply is unbelievable – his doubling down, doubly embarrassing – for everyone in the SNP and anyone that’s ever voted for him. Does he really think his position so safe? Is he really such a nasty arsehole that when he feels safe he turns into a prick of the highest order? If the SNP don’t discipline him, I can only assume that this is the type of behaviour they want to encourage. Wishart doesn’t know the ‘dude’ eh – well, Mr Wishart MP, you haven’t been paying much attention to your own party’s policies then have you?
Dr Rideout’s email tells me there is still, thankfully, some political nous in the SNP, and well done to him on putting forward a sensible, and arguable, suggestion – it would make the SNP look a lot stronger and make the best of a bad situation.
Really pleased Tim is already getting stuck into policy development for the SNP – he appears to be the only member that has already established a forward (to independence) thinking plan (for currency) – a lot more practical and realistic policies are needed, a lot, in a very short space of time, since the rest of the SNP appear to have been sitting on their laurels the past few years just talking about how they need plans (so it doesn’t turn out like brexit) – what? Did they think plans will miraculously appear by themselves?! (Frustratingly, read a tweet along those lines from Joanna Cherry yesterday).
A plebiscite in May, and road maps outlining routes to independence so people can make an informed decision. I can’t see any other option for getting independence in the next century, not politically with a lame duck party like the SNP, pathetic leadership,and freeloaders like Pete Wishart as so-called representatives.
Scotland have been led to the slaughter, its plain to see now, well planned, the people have to set up a new party with real Scots in charge keeping in communication with the real people who’ll vote them in.
Personally I find Cameron’s input intellectually and philosophically on the money, also constitutionally, culturally and on matters of law.
Its also nice to see folks from other countries supporting self-determination of Scots, our decolonisation, ending of cultural imperialism/oppression and creation of a Scottish nationality, rather than blocking all of that. Though I wouldn’t say currency is the biggest factor to bother about.
Tomorrow may be last chance saloon for Scotland’s MP’s to assert Scottish sovereignty. Lets hope we end 2020 with a very big constitutional bang!
(Bittie45, in your aside re MMT and UBI, I’m not a hundred percent clear about the economic arguments against UBI, but there is no reason they can’t coexist from what I’ve read, just that it might not be ideal. But, one of the strongest arguments I’ve heard against UBI is that it could be used as a form of control over the population – say the government decided everyone to be a citizen needed microchipped, and that had your health data on etc, that could be sold to marketing companies, ,,, slightly paranoid, but it has made me reconsider my enthusiasm for UBI – I would want to see strong legislation and regulation around it so the system couldn’t be abused, that is, successive governments could not just randomly change the criteria for being a citizen who receives UBI)
Every time I see Pete Wishart I imagine George Foulkes. Or is it the other way around?
Note that the Independence for Scotland Party already have a similar, realistic EFTA/EEA policy on Europe. SNP policy (if it exists) is full of holes…
On a lighter note:
link to twitter.com
Sadly, I think she’s going to have a long wait for her apology.
link to twitter.com
I was on the fence with Pete but his email has just knocked me right off that said fence.
@ ‘dakk says:
29 December, 2020 at 8:15 pm
“Does NS actually believe the EU does, or would, value Scotland MORE than the UK?”
The $64k question.
Is any arsehole on here likely to really know that any more than her or the SNP in general?’
I don’t care what NS believes, or what the EU believes.
I want what is best for Scotland, and meekly allowing ourselves to be shafted, to go from the promise of Devo Max to the actuality of Devo Nowt in 6 years, when support for Indy has never been higher, or more urgent… without even a whimper…. is just tragic.
And I am a human, a citizen, a voter, a Scot.
Not often an arsehole…
and I think, and I love, and I am.
With our heads, with our words, with our hearts, with our actions… yes we can. And now we must.
What an ignorant arrogant piece of shit this guy is. It is beyond belief that this cretin is allowed to sit on a toilet never mind a parliament and is an embarrassment to the SNP and his constituents.
It is also a sad reflection on the other SNP MP`s that they don’t take this prick to task.
Re Al Baird @ 9.37pm
Lets hope so Alf but personally I have no doubt the end of the transition period will pass without even a whimper. Why oh why are we allowing these corrupt mendacious wimps to represent us? We cannot allow NS & co to continue calling the shots (or more likely firing deliberate blanks). We need rid of the NS cabal like yesterday. It may already be too late as Boris the circus clown has plans for our future which will kick in very shortly and our nation will be emasculated and pillaged for the rest of our history. For God’s sake would someone with a bit of gravitas like AS or JC stand up for us and call out these charlatans. If not give me back the last 20 years and I would be off to pastures new but being an old fart I guess I will have to grin and bear it.
For those of you interested there is an article here that could do with some comments. Please keep it civil as we will want to be good neighbours in future and it is not the english person that we have a problem with but the westminster mafia.
link to turbulenttimes.co.uk
Was it Jim `eggs` Murphy that grabbed wishy washy by his scrawny neck and told him to `f@ck right off`,
wishy washy sounds and looks like the type of mooothy git that has been grabbed by the neck and told the `f@ck right off` by a long list of people.
Alf Baird
Thanks, though I appear to be a bit like Marmite, so you might not be endearing yourself to some. 😉
This may read like a spell or ingredients of a potion…
Grating of cheese
Shelling of nuts
Assembly of a table
Eyes of a doll
But no, it’s to do with UK- EU FTA stuff.
link to twitter.com
I agree that Tim would make a good leader along with J C.
Its time for a clear out.
The yes movement is regrettably split with a great deal of animosity between pro and anti Sturgeonists. The pro lobby think all on here are unionist trolls and the anti lobby believe the other side are just plain stupid with a few trolls thrown in. Dip your toes into WGD and you will see what I mean. To be fair the pro lobby would get short shrift on here. As it stands the vote will be split in future elections with many independence supporting people being so disillusioned by the current SNP leadership as to decide to not to vote for them on the constituency ballot, let alone the list. Leaving aside tactical voting on the list we need to come together or the unionists will creep in by the back door and secure a majority in the next Holyrood elections. If that happens we are truly sunk.
The split is deep and irreconcilable and the unionists must be rubbing their hands in glee. If we are to come together then, for the good of our nation, NS has to resign now and take her hubby and a few others with her. To say they are divisive is charitable, there is ample proof of lies, obfuscation and deliberate delay not to mention criminality in the attempted stitch up of AS. She is in an untenable position. She can go now and salvage some of her reputation or hang on, see the death of Scotland’s aspirations as an independent nation, and drag her own legacy through the mud. The membership alone should then decide on their successors. Perhaps then we can all come together and push for the ultimate goal which we all share.
If you know you’re going to be shafted, do you wait to see how you’re going to be shafted or do you do something about it? The SNP have done nothing to prevent it. In actuality, their prevarication has enabled it.
However, as someone upstream mentioned, will the Brexit vote not reveal, depending on how they vote (abstain/no), which SNP MPs are acting on behalf of Scotland and which are acting against Scotland?
Alf Baird
That was perhaps a bit glib, as when I think about it, your professional background suggests you know your onions. So I’m personally and professionally gratified by your recognition of my political competence. 😉
Seems Stu and Tim are right. In the optimum poll sub sample (caution subsample so not weighted but it’s a straw in the wind) only 19% wanted MPs to vote against.
Scotland sub sample of course
So instead of going for independence, tomorrow we are going to get gesture politics, to symbolically reject Brexit.
Truly pathetic.
I hope we’re treated to a “Scotland will not be dragged out” for old times sake, or a “referendum must happen before the end of 2020” just to keep the mood jocular.
Wishart is a Narcissistic fanny.
His Freudian slip in the 2nd paragraph of his response to Tim Rideout caught my eye, he writes –
“Though, they like me,…” *(they like me; everyone likes me.)
instead of what it should have been –
“Though they, like me,…”
One simple, misplaced, comma exposes Wishart’s insane belief in his own greatness.
As I say, a Narcissistic fanny!
Again UK Unionist Media present Scotland’s Covid stats as
If they are the worst in the UK.
Almost 50,000 of today’s new Covid cases are in England.
Scotland had less that 1,900 new cases.
Covid Deaths for England exceed 62,000, not counting their
20,000 excess deaths while Scotland has 4,500 deaths.
Multiply our stats by 10 for an easy comparison of how badly England are coping.
Imagine if the story below happened in Scotland and not England- Again!
A London paramedic has told Sky News how he looked after patients in the back of his ambulance because there was “simply nowhere for them to go”.
A small request if I can
Please if you feel the
need to use abbreviations asume not everyone knows what you mean . It is maybe clear to the poster but sometimes not to the reader
Thanks
Wishart really should have lost his seat in 2017. His arrogance is stunning for someone who won a relatively recent election by a mere 21 votes. Any normal person would have tempered themselves after that close call, but no… not Wishart.
This may appear OT, but I think Pete Wishart’s performance is emblematic of ‘our’ legal Establishment’s high-handed and arbitrary approach to democracy. So if this post was a dance, it would be a jig performed in hobnails, on a stage provided by the backs of Scotland’s law officers.
Law’s Rule: Reflexivity, Mutual Accountability, and the Rule of Law
link to papers.ssrn.com
“The rule of law promises protection and recourse against the arbitrary exercise of power. Not only must those who govern rule with law, they must themselves be ruled by law. The rule of law requires reflexivity – law’s rule of those who rule with law and in its name.
This essay explores the conditions for the realization of law’s rule. Philosophical explorations of the rule of law ideal largely focus on principles of legality – the formal, procedural, and institutional aspects of the ideal – but these discussions are seriously incomplete because they ignore fidelity, the ethos of law.
Fidelity underwrites and makes possible law’s rule. The rule of law is robust in a polity only when it is characterized by widespread fidelity, that is, only when its members, and not merely the legal or ruling elite, take responsibility for holding each other and especially law’s officials to account under the law.
Law’s rule rests on the commitments, practices, and institutional infrastructure of a polity-wide network of mutual accountability. It opposes all forms of sovereignty, insofar as they ground accountability ultimately in an unaccountable accountability-holder.”
Pete Wishart, Nicola Sturgeon and all the rest of them have conned us.
Done us up like kippers.
They sat back watching us marching up and down high streets all over Scotland, knowing we were going to be their meal ticket, their way into making easy money.
All they had to do was stand as an SNP rep at Holyrood or Westminster and the money would follow.
They know the gravy train comes off the tracks once we become an Independent Nation.
So the trick is to look as if you are doing something, when really you are doing absolutely nothing to further the cause of Scottish Independence.
We’ve been had, every last one of us.
@ ben madigan at 9.09
Yes, I know.
I considered including words to that effect in my post, but decided they were superfluous and that my point was better made succinctly.
The SNPs MPs should ABSTAIN.
Who’s advising them?
I’m excluding Joanna Cherry, Ken MacAskill, Patrick Grady, Angus MacNeil, Chris Stephens, Dr Philippa Whitford, Allan Dorans in my question.
In the absence of any evidence to the contrary? Are the rest being ‘whipped’ bribed, blackmailed, compromised or thick as shite in the neck of a bottle?
There was a time when SNP MPs ‘could’ have made a difference. England voted for Brexit. Let them have it. SNP MPs ‘could’ have voted for Theresa May’s Deal on a Quid Pro Quo basis. Arguably it was probably better than anything Corrupt Boris and his Corrupt Pals have cobbled together. We could have told Theresa May – Ok, we will vote to get your deal through Parliament but in return we want Independence or at the very least a Sec30.
Instead? We are insulted, laughed at, ridiculed and have been excluded from ALL negotiations.
To vote NO now is not only posturing it is STUPID. Our MPs are making US look STUPID.
They should ABSTAIN.
I used to think that MPs represented the views and needs of their constituents. Edwina Curry let the cat out the bag many years ago when she said that prospective candidates for Westminster will day and do anything it takes, to the electorate, in order to WIN the Seat.
Once ‘in’ Parliament, they represent the PARTY – NOT CONSTITUENTS or the electorate.
Pete Wishart has just proved her point. He and any other SNP MP who does not ABSTAIN are putting gesture politics on behalf of the SNP BEFORE what is in the best interests of SCOTLAND.
Ask yerself? How many times have WE accused the Tories of putting Party and Self Interest before what is best for the people?
If SNP vote NO? They dishonour all of us. They dishonour and disrespect their own grassroots members who did the work to get them elected. They spit on us Yessers who were willing to lend SNP their vote and are desperate for Indy.
I am way beyond anger now.
Stone cold rage and the desire to work towards Scotland having MPs and MSPs who REPRESENT their Constituents. NOT a clique in the Party. NOT GRA Self ID Identity Gender WooWoo at the expense of Women and Children, putting them in danger. NOT for Humza’s Hate Law – which in my opinion will be used very quickly against those who DARE to criticise Politicians.
What an evil dystopian future Politicians and Lobbyists have plotted and planned to benefit about 2% of Society.
Can barely sleep at night for worrying what has been planned for my grandchildren.
I despise them. ??
@ The Honourable Yona
I know very little about Patrick Grady, so I’m not questioning your inclusion of him in your list, but – he’s the SNP Chief Whip at Westminster, so perhaps he’s participating in the decision, or at least in its implementation!
@The Honourable Yona says:
30 December, 2020 at 1:52 am
“The SNPs MPs should ABSTAIN.
Who’s advising them?”
Good question but I doubt we’ll find out. Probably some strategic wizard who got their ideas from playing Risk as a teenager.
So the Covid 19 highly infectious Brit Variant has now spread to Colorado. Dont you just love the selfish globe trotting Brits? It doesn’t really surprise me that rich fucks think they have a god given right to globe trot and spread their killer diseases.
@ The Honourable Yona 1.52am Very well said Yourself and Daisy Walker are right on the button , ANY SNP MP who votes on this bill is NOT representing Scottish Independence or their constituents , they are representing the orders of a failed , corrupt leader who has NOT ONLY done nothing to promote independence but has ACTIVELY worked against it
@Iain More says:
30 December, 2020 at 2:45 am
“So the Covid 19 highly infectious Brit Variant has now spread to Colorado. Dont you just love the selfish globe trotting Brits? It doesn’t really surprise me that rich fucks think they have a god given right to globe trot and spread their killer diseases.”
Doesn’t help when high profile individuals repeatedly breach the restrictions. Start jailing the bastards, especially those can easily afford a £10K fine. If that is too extreme how about tagging repeat offenders and hitting them with a curfew?
I’m in Victor Meldrew mode 🙂
@grousebeater oh Wishart can’t be an old slipper, remember someone tried calling him an SNP Veteran lately.
But he quickly pointed out he was far too young to be a veteran.
He obviously hasn’t looked in the mirror lately then!
Certainly passed his sell by date as an MP, no empathy for Women who have concerns on GRA, to him we are all obsessed!!
Yona: “To vote NO now is not only posturing it is STUPID. Our MPs are making US look STUPID.”
I wish it was only stupid. But it’s much worse than stupid. It gifts everyone the right to vote against the will of the Scottish people – because we voted against their democratic will, they can vote against ours.
There comes a point where you’ve got to assume they’re intentionally screwing our chances up.
Ronald Fraser at 1225am,
QUOTE “So the trick is to look as if you are doing something, when really you are doing absolutely nothing to further the cause of Scottish Independence.
We’ve been had, every last one of us.”
THAT, is the SNP leadership in a nutshell. No wonder peter Murrell or Nicola Sturgeon never bothered attending or even supporting indy marches in any way.
They have taken us all for fools. I am furious at what the English Tory Government is doing and has done to Scotland and its people, but I am even angrier at the SNP for doing nothing whilst pretending they will.
NOW is the time for them to actually DO SOMETHING, not next year, not after the election, not ‘sometime soon’, or in the ‘first half of the next parliament’. The time is now, the whole world is watching, the SNP either need to put up or shut the f*** up for good.
It looks likely, that we, the people, will need to take independence for ourselves. Politicians, all of them, are merely the frauds we all suspected long ago.
Scotland weren’t even allowed to be in the Brexit discussions why would they even be wanting to be down in Westminster never mind vote, walk away back to Scotland and dissolve the union, of Europe are nae happy we could join efta, do people not realise how wealthy Scotland really is.
Beaker says:
30 December, 2020 at 3:07 am
“Doesn’t help when high profile individuals repeatedly breach the restrictions. Start jailing the bastards, especially those can easily afford a £10K fine. If that is too extreme how about tagging repeat offenders and hitting them with a curfew?”
Can we please start with George Galloway – now gallivanting around Dumfriesshire, attending closed football matches with his family while the local police do nothing. Must be our punishment for having a majority of Tory voting unionists in the region.
Ian Moore 2.45
Mr Moore, you need to take a look at yourself.
With absolutely no evidence whatsoever you have decided that the variant found in Colorado came from Britain and got there via a Brit. Could the virus have mutated in the USA? Could it have been exported to USA by a German flying from Paris? Could it have been an SNP member?
Can we not just jail Galloway anyway, not for political reasons but for purely personal ones? Mind you, we know what happened to Rula Lenska’s hands the last time he was required to stay in a building for an extended period of time.
In fact, hold on a minute… has anybody ever seen Galloway and Wishart in the same room at the same time?
It doesn’t matter whether the SNP votes for the deal or against it, or even abstains. The ONLY option of any consequence is to walk out, and thus distance Scotland between Brexit and the UK’s disrespect for breaking International Law.
It doesn’t matter what excuses they use, and the likes of Wishart never run dry of excuses, because the SNP could have halted Brexit in it’s tracks, but chose not to.
Northern Ireland had a backstop, an effective veto on Brexit, because the Good Friday Agreement, (an International Treaty), stipulated that the Border between Ireland and Northern Ireland would be removed and never return. Thus Northern Ireland’s Brexit would have required a Border, and thus broken the Peace Treaty.
Where was Scotland’s backstop? Where was our veto on Brexit? We have the 1707 Treaty of Union between equals, which explicitly prevents the subjugation of one nation by the other. Scotland’s Brexit, with the added validation of it’s democratic rejection, would have, and now has, broken the International Treaty of 1707.
Scotland’s Brexit and colonial subjugation breaches an International Treaty, and the International Law which would be on our side is a higher house of authority than Domestic UK Law, yet here we have sat these past five years wringing our hands in impotence because neither Westminster rules, nor the Mickey Mouse constitution of Holyrood arms Scotland with the Constitutional safeguards and mechanisms to dispute our grievance and colonial subjugation under International Law. Such rules don’t even empower the people with a mechanism to impeach any rogue government breaching Scotland’s Constitution.
This whole sorry saga, from the moment Sturgeon chose NOT to fight for a Scottish Constitutional Backstop which defended Scotland’s Sovereignty and democratic rejection of Brexit, has been NOTHING but a theatrical sideshow, where the voters and population of Scotland have been led away from the truth like a prize bull with a ring in it’s nose.
We haven’t ‘suddenly’ been let down by the SNP. They’ve been doing it since 2016, and the imminent vote you all “think” is relevant and topical is just another day where the sophistry of UK Government sees domestic UK Law hogging the limelight, and standing dominant over Scotland’s Constitutional Rights under International Law.
Fk the SNP. Scotland could have avoided Brexit as readily as Northern Ireland, with the added bonus that Scotland remaining in Europe would have rendered the UK Treaty of Union untenable, and Scotland would by now have been an Independent Nation negotiating it’s EU Membership simultaneously with a Transitional Agreement for winding up the UK.
And for all the Pete Wishart type SNP bullshitters who say I’m the ‘roaster’ who’s lost his marbles, we need only look across the Irish Sea, and the United Sovereign Nation of Ireland made virtually inevitable by their stalwart defence of a backstop made possible by one line of text in an International Treaty.
SNP, hold your heads in shame you fkg imbeciles. What you’ve done is laughable enough, from your rotten witch-hunt to smear Alec Salmond to the proliferation of Wokist extremism, but it’s what you haven’t done to defend Scotland which truly damns you. Scotland ruled by a Parcel ‘O Rogues in 1707, bought and sold for English gold, and likewise 2016-2021.
The only SNP Parliamentarians with ANY integrity after today will be those who have walked out of Westminster, never to go back, and are FINALLY resolved to defend Scotland’s Constitutional Integrity under International Law! The thing that should properly have been done in 2016.
@Beaker/Ian More
It isn’t necessarily the British travelling – it’s folk visiting the UK and then going home with it. It’s how some of the German cases have been traced – including one sequenced from a victim in Germany who died in November
But this variant is everywhere. Possible the UK just spotted it first. Fortunately (?) It still seems largely contained to the South East, which is why the case numbers there are rocketing
Here’s the German example I referred to:
link to euronews.com
Essex Council declare a major incident as hospitals become overwhelmed.
Try hard to imagine if this happened in Scotland.
You would be battered to death with a story like that
with UK media rubbing their hands all over it for months to come.
SNP should be reciprocating mention it every day.
“How sorry we are to hear about the CATASTROPHES in England as
the Covid virus runs out of control again”
Scotland must ensure this never happens here!
@Breeks
Despite the name, it appears to be the legal view that the Treaty of Union is not really a treaty and so doesn’t ‘sound’ in international law. Just because it is called a treaty doesn’t make it so – arguably neither party to the treaty exists any more
This is covered in this paper from Edinburgh University, around p74 (page 13 of the PDF itself):
link to research.ed.ac.uk
At the very least, I don’t think this is as straightforward as you are hoping.
Breeks
Nothing more to add I believe you covered all points
Anyone from the SNP management reading the comments from Breeks ?
Come on here even incognito and defend the SNP Actions
Just attempt to answer any of the points made
I guess we all will run out of Oxygen before we get a believable coherent answer from any of them
As a new year approaches might we get over the virus.. Nobody ‘knows’ everything about this flu strain anymore than anyone ‘knows’ everything about similar viral pathogens producing classic flu and cold symptoms. There is no handy cure for such diseases merely means to ease their symptoms. Virology is in fact a relatively modern discipline.
What we do know for certain is that irrational fear of a virus is being used to curb democratic and civil freedoms by governments worldwide. The fantastic golden bullet of a cure all vaccine is being weaponized and monetized to like effect.
Politicians screw up the world, not viruses, and unless they are checked and made accountable to citizens they will continue to screw us all well into 2021/2/3…..
The particular case of the arrogant SNP leaders, suppressing and muzzling social life and happily shafting their loyal independence craving constituents makes my point.
I think Dr Rideout’s EFTA/EEA proposal is a sensible suggestion to retain close EU alignment which would respect the wishes not just of the 62% but actually a lot of Scottish leave voters as well. It therefore has the potential to achieve a high level of unity. Ironically, when the SNP were proposing SM/CU alignment at WM they were summarily dismissed by the Tories at every turn. Now PW is doing the very same – incredible
Ottomanboi – Agreed , at the very least we need to be constantly questioning what Govs claim to be doing ” on our behalf ” , not suspending all critical thinking and bowing to the shaming and blaming culture that we currently find ourselves in
Breaking News
Stunning scenes from Scotland’s champioms in Westminster. SNP amendment extending today’s debate from 5 hours to 7.
Genius. Tactical genius. Maybe we’ll here Petes speech after all
Why is SNP MP Ian Blackford speaking out about China calling their treatment of the Uighurs similar to that of Hitler and the Jews. This isn’t Blackford’s remit we sent him down there to protect and help get the best deals he can for Scotland not for him to swan off on some Westminster based ideology that China is bad, we’re not even independent yet and Blackford is potentially making very powerful international enemies for Scotland.
What’s even more bizarre about Blackford’s behaviour is that China and the EU, y’know the EU we want to rejoin, are on the verge of making a landmark investment deal, yet here we have the SNP leader at Westminster who we want to help us create an exit strategy from Westminster and the union, doing Westminster’s dirty work for them.
Why is Blackford doing this, let England make its own enemies we don’t want any part of it, Blackford shut up and do your job for Scotland.
John Digsby 9.06
…. I’ve been posting on here for years John. It’s no good you coming on here with facts!
If it doesn’t fit with the “Brit Bad” narrative or uphold the grievance culture … it will be ignored.
The PM ridiculing the SNP for voting for no deal as predicted.
Oh why oh why have we no strategic vision in the party ranks?
@Sensibledave,
200 British tourists leave a hotel in the middle of the night in Switzerland whilst under quarantine for Covid. Whereabouts unknown. Could be infected or not.
How about that for a fact?
Bob mack10.15
What do you expect Bob? After everything that has happened over the last 5 years … the SNP determine that the best outcome of today would be for the U.K. to end the Transition Period by moving to No Deal.
Ridicule is too good for them.
@Sensibledave 10.20,
On this occasion I concur.
Bob Mack 10.19
… it is irrelevant to the subject being discussed Bob … but disgraceful nevertheless.
Is it true that the “British Tourists” were predominantly Scottish?
@Sensibledave,
It matters not. They were British as far as the hotel was concerned.
So the Peterhead fishing mafia are crying into their creels and telling Fergus Ewing that this Johnson EU deal is worse than than being in the (CFP) The Common Fisheries Policy.
Well my fishy friends you we’re well warned beforehand that a Tory cannot be trusted, but your utter greed for more wealth and fish has spectacularly backfired on you.
Scottish farmers took the same route and they will suffer also under this Tory Brexit deal.
The only way the deal can be broken is if you vote for independence when the time comes, you know it makes sense.
I’ve just had a look around to see what there is about Peter Wishart, Oops sorry Peter I know you prefer ‘Pete’ because your parliametary page says so.
This is how they them those peters must be addressed when contacting them those they because Peter says so
Republicofscotland says:
30 December, 2020 at 10:01 am
“Why is Blackford doing this, let England make its own enemies we don’t want any part of it, Blackford shut up and do your job for Scotland.”
Perhaps he was watching Team America, World Police…
I just checked on Republic.com and indeed many of the tourists who skipped from the Swiss hotel were from the London area. They ended up in France apparently.
I have no great belief in the current SNP leadership. I believe they are a bunch of time-servers, more interested in self-preservation in their cushy parliamentary jobs than in getting us our Independence.
However, in respect of the vote on Brexit – they are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
The vote is in essence, Parliament rubber stamping the deal Johnson has done – it is NOT a case of: this deal or no deal. Johnson knows he has it won, so, the out-numbered SNP are royally fucked.
But, it is a bad deal for Scotland, so, the SNP’s only course of action is to oppose it. Opposing this deal is NOT to endorse “No Deal,” it is a simple statement: “This deal is bad for Scotland – we cannot support it.”
Yet, such is the dishonest state of politics in this country today, somehow, for the in this case very-honest SNP to be against this deal is apparently them being for No Deal; in spite of the fact, if asked to endorse a No Deal situation, they would again oppose it.
Aye history being rewritten by Digsby
Yet another English establishment plant amongst all the other plants we have seen over the years
Off you go and play somewhere else , seen it done it been there before same shit different day eh
Elmac @10:35 pm
The yes movement is regrettably split with a great deal of animosity between pro and anti Sturgeonists.
There is disagreement with the statement that “the SNP will lead us to independence” but not much else. If there is a split, then it’s with the soft Yessers who’d rather stay in the cosy arrangement that is Holyrood than have to do actual work of running a real country.
All you are seeing is a lot of frustration and the “fundamentalists” pulling towards more radical solutions. That can only be a good thing as the more people who do that then that position has a gravity all of its own. Eventually the bums in parliament will realise that action is required. This situation is eminently a lot more healthy than everybody sitting around on their hands waiting for a Section 30 order.
These are the last days of Gradualism. Once the dust of COVID-19 and Brexit starts to settle people are going realise what an almighty mess we’re in and demand change.
How the SNP MP’s sit there lending legitimacy to people who are blocking our right to self determination is beyond me.
Infiltrated beyond redemption.
Blackford is trending on Twitter already. He keeps interrupting and the Speaker retorted with:
“At least hear what the Prime Minister has to say before you intervene to disagree”
Apparently he is upset at being described as a “nationalist” by Boris. Eh?
Tartan Tories a label very apt to the present day Sturgeon SNP.
John Digsby says:
30 December, 2020 at 9:22 am
@Breeks
Despite the name, it appears to be the legal view that the Treaty of Union is not really a treaty and so doesn’t ‘sound’ in international law.
So when’s a Treaty not a Treaty eh? Did you happen to notice my reference to ‘sophistry’? But hey, it’s the season of good will to all men, so lets be kind. And here’s an idea! Let’s agree to have the UN International Court clarify the amiguity.
If the Treaty of Union isn’t a Treaty, then there is no Union to begin with.
I’ll also raise your Edinburgh University Article to a Law Society of Scotland Article which argues there is indeed a real Treaty.
link to lawscot.org.uk
Republicofscotland
The fisherfolk were always thus. The extended 5 years transition and the annual reviews after that are all just promises of jam tomorrow which will keep them voting Tory. They’ll keep losing as a result.
What about an independent Scotland bringing democracy to fishing and give the quotas to the individuals that actually do the work. For example link to en.wikipedia.org but with limits on ownership so wealth won’t be allowed to accrue and a few families get all the benefits for none of the work. Then you might get the fisherfolk to realise that there are better paths than the one they are on.
I’ve archived that link… link to archive.is
Not to dodge the website traffic, but I had another Law Society bookmark with a similar theme which no longer functions… At least there’s now an archived copy of that article.
Gotta say how much I love Archive dot is. Thoroughly brilliant resource.
Bob Mack 10.18
… so let me just check your thinking Bob. I have no idea where the tourists were from – I just noted the nature of the comment that was written and, as I suspected, you didn’t know either because you went to look it up.
Secondly, assuming that the tourists were predominantly from the London Area, what picture have you got in your head Bob … given that 55% of folk from the London Area identify as non white?
@Sensibledave,
What has non white got to do with anything? Enlighten me.
Certain elements of the SNP are fans of Leo Varadkar’s Ireland.
The link contains wise words of warning.
link to unherd.com
Scotland must create its own, unique model.
@ ben madigan at 9:09 pm
and
@Crazy cat
Small point re Sinn Fein salaries
link to belfasttelegraph.co.uk
The article says they don’t take salaries, but get a wage paid by the party,
Bit like the SSP,kind of
There is no evidence that the SNP MPs are trying to hike their expenses in line with SF, the hold back is they want the MP salary as well
O/T
England wheeling out a vaccine that has not been tested and yet they want us to pump it into our viens.
They can stick their Oxford rat’s pish vaccine up their arse.
This is typical Boris, he wants Brexit all wrapped up in a bow in time for the New Year and it’s the same with this VERY UNTESTED AND UNRELIABLE Oxford vaccine.
They haven’t even tested the elderly with this new vaccine.
It’s the fuckin jail the lot of them want.
@John Digsby at 9.22 am. The link you have given is the Crawford & Boyle report of 2013 which is a unionist report commissioned by David Cameron to try to bolster England’s position in the run up to the last referendum. It’s been totally discredited. What it was attempting to say was that Scotland didn’t really exist as an entity anymore and had been incorporated into a greater England. You are saying that neither party exist but, oddly, that’s not what Crawford and Boyle were saying. They were saying that England did exist as an entity but, strangely, Scotland had been completely incorporated. The stance was risible considering we have our own legal and education system.
Cameron didn’t pursue it as it was discredited by other academics. The Treaty is an international one and is extant. It can be challenged in the international courts.
Bob Mack
As I wrote Bob, I was just checking your “thinking”. What does a group of 200 folk from the London Area look like in your head … or indeed the heads of the Anti English loonies that frequent these pages sometimes ( see Ronald Fraser above).
@John Digsby
Corruption and incompetence notwithstanding, the law endeavours to side with the wronged and, in the event of ambiguity, must always side with the confused.
With this in mind, one consequence of a majority of Scots MPs voting against the deal is that, contrary to what might have arisen under the ambiguity of an abstention (and regardless of what England and any national or supranational entity may have agreed between themselves), Scotland necessarily becomes the hereditary state (rUK) on termination of the treaty and should therefore expect to have full custody of Julian Assange by Friday..
The SNP Scotland majority have a few hours left to redeem both themselves and our enslaved Scottish nation and people.
Whatever happens or does not happen ‘toady’ will determine if the SNP has any future.
A particular view on treaties and the perceived democratic deficit in international law.
link to pdfs.semanticscholar.org
Have things moved on since 1707?
Functionaries may legitimately make and sign treaties, arrogating to themselves such a right, without the need for democratic consultation. Scotland’s case?
In an evolving situation in which decisions may be made above the nominally accountable state level by the intervention of trans-national, self-styled global entities, international law appears to have significant blind spots.
The demos element it seems may be excised licitly from the practice of democracy.
@Dave,
My thinking is along the lines of we don’t let Johnny Foreigner tell us what we can or cant do. Entitlement .Arrogance.
I have been to London many ,many times and beyond. I tend not to categorise those I have seldom spoken to and London is a very easy place to avoid social interaction.
Are you surreptitiously trying the racial angle on me Dave?
Surprising as you have no idea what race I am.
Ronald Fraser 11.21 am,
What a load of dribble you spout,
I for one will be taking the vaccine if it wasnt safe it wouldnt be given to anybody.
Keep your dribble to yourself, no ones listening
Bob Mack
Your use of the term “Johnny Foreigner” betrays you. You conjure up the very cliched stereotype of how English folk view the world … simply because it suits your tired, lazy narrative and your inference of the superiority of the average Scot.
I am sure you are more ntelligent than the likes of Mr Fraser above, but similar sentiments lay just beneath the surface. Whilst you are quite happy to take me on, I note your lack of response to the overt anti-English comments from that dick.
But it is to be expected. I am reminded again of the hilarious Upstart Crow skit (featuring someone who is almost a parody of Ian Blackford these days).
See: link to t.co
A lot of righteous anger around at the moment and no little wonder.
The Honourable Yona says:
If the SNP vote ‘no’ they dishonour all of us.
Breeks says:
Where was Scotland’s backstop? Where was our veto on Brexit? We have the 1707 Treaty of Union between equals, which explicitly prevents the subjugation of one nation by the other. Scotland’s Brexit, with the added validation of its democratic rejection, would have, and now has, broken the International Treaty of 1707.
Scotland’s Brexit and colonial subjugation breaches an International Treaty, and the International Law which would be on our side is a higher house of authority than Domestic UK Law.
The only SNP Parliamentarians with ANY integrity after today will be those who have walked out of Westminster, never to go back, and are FINALLY resolved to defend Scotland’s Constitutional Integrity under International Law!
I am in complete agreement with The Honourable Yona and Breeks. (My apologies for repeating Breeks at length but his contribution is more than worthy of repetition.)
England: Got what they voted for.
Wales: Got what they voted for.
Northern Ireland: Got what they voted for.
Scotland: Shafted and humiliated.
Well done Nicola Sturgeon. You’ve played a blinder!
What a complete and utter abject failure.
The only consolation I can offer is that as of 01/01/2021 the ancient nation of Scotland is no longer bound by the Treaty of Union and from that date forth the United Kingdom exists only as an illegal entity, and neither the English Crown nor the Palace of Westminster has any legitimate authority over us, the sovereign people of Scotland.
@Sensibledave says:
30 December, 2020 at 10:20 am
Ridicule is nothing to be scared of…
@Sensibledave,
Not convincing at all Dave. I have no problem with English folk in the main. Love Geordie s especially. Great humour like my native Glasgow.
However I know for a fact that I have met many folk who think being British gives them extra privelage. Like the 200 tourists deciding another nations health requirements needn’t apply to them. You can tell me anything you like but my own experiences ring true to me.
Ottomanboi
A very interesting read and probably a clearer take on Big Picture Woke – thanks.
California Über Alles, indeed.
“If it doesn’t fit with the “Brit Bad” narrative or uphold the grievance culture … it will be ignored.”
By imagining Westminster is the ultimate source of legal authority, ‘our’ lawmakers are placing themselves above cognition and the Moral law. This is why they are prone to arbitrary and parochial legal dogmatism, a.k.a. fascism. And why Scots will never enjoy the benefits of democracy while bound by Westminster’s legal pseudo-science.
Cognitive Psychology, Commonsense Morality, and the Law
link to papers.ssrn.com
Ronald Fraser
You are simply wrong and talking nonsense, test results published in the Lancet. Or am I just some stupid rube and the Lancet are in on the conspiracy?
Believe what you want, but keep your conspiracy theory pish to yourself
link to thelancet.com
I’ve just received my badge of honour! Pete Wishart has blocked me.
@Gfaetheblock,
Ronald is sadly( smirk), no longer with us. Banned.
@Patsy Miller,
Badges only for those not banned.( Rarer breed you see)
“If it doesn’t fit with the “Brit Bad” narrative or uphold the grievance culture … it will be ignored.”
If Westminster had taken the time to modernise EFFECTIVELY over the last three centuries, it would not be supporting populist and majoritarian constitutionalism. There is simply no political will to do so though, as Westminster is unconstrained in its’ ability to meet England’s political needs. The fact that this requires the expunction of Scotland’s legal identity simply doesn’t cross the minds of most English folk.
Elements of Moral Cognition: Rawls’ Linguistic Analogy and the Cognitive Science of Moral and Legal Judgment
link to ndpr.nd.edu
@Bob Mack I’ve got the badge and nothing you say will make me give it up!
This post might clarify why I get a bit tetchy when my state of mental health becomes the topic of (uniformed) debate. Though even if the debate was informed, it would still be the height of bad manners.
New Trends of Cognitive Science in Ethical and
Legal Reflection
link to rwi.uzh.ch
“In recent years a particular perspective has increased in importance and now forms a central area in the study of ethics and law, namely, the perspective of cognitive science and the modern theory of the human mind. Yet, there are a number of different approaches within this framework – a fact that should not be overlooked.
The most important emerging views include neo-emotivist neuroethics, approaches of evolutionary psychology and a mentalist theory of ethics and law. Neoemotivist neuroethics identifies morality with emotional reactions that are hard-wired in human cognition,1 beyond which utility calculations reign, while evolutionary psychology takes morality as an evolved optimization device for gene-reproduction.2
On the other hand, a mentalist theory of ethics and law regards morality and the law as complex, historically and socially embedded constructions on the basis of enabling
higher mental faculties, governed by abstract, non-emotional, foundational principles of – among others – justice and altruism that are part of the nature of the human mind.3
The purpose of this paper is therefore to explore the relevance of the abovementioned approaches for the study of the philosophy and theory of ethics and law. It will be argued that neither emotivist neuroethics nor evolutionary psychology, but rather a mentalist theory of ethics and law, constitutes the most promising approach to tackling the challenges created by the cognitive revolution.”
sorry….(uniNformed) debate. Honestly not rubbing things in, I’m just trying to make myself clear. No hard feelings on my part. 😉
link to medium.com
This
link to petewishart.wordpress.com
is the link to the Pete Wishart Speech which he describes as a ‘cracker’ in a tweet which is copied above.
🙂
I realise it’s easy to misremember things especially with the new and improved SNP however what was the SNP’s policy on EU membership when the Honourable Gentleman became an MP? I vaguely remember them been pro EFTA/EEA rather than full EU membership and if it changed I assume there was a vote on it.
The good Doctors suggestion seems like a good one and is probably why it’ll never get an airing.
bugger *being not been
Did any SNP MP do what Dr Rideout suggested, in his e-mail to them?
link to youtu.be
Controversial point, to counter some of the negative comments about Pete Wishart, this speech was one of the key inspirations that prompted me to become a Yes activist in 2014. So what did PW ever do for independence? Not much, just inspire a generation of activists…. Having said that people change, and I’m as appalled as anyone at his sarcastic, unprofessional and hypocritical response to Dr Rideout.
link to twitter.com
Get over yersel.
I am appalled and even shocked that a supposed SNP Parliamentarian would behave with such conceit, ignorance, presumed entitlement, and disrespect as Twee Pishart has done.
He should apologize to Dr Rideout (who clearly knows more on this subject than does that rubbish birdbrain, Trash Peewit) and should also apologize to That Ers-wipe’s own constituents, for serving them so ill.
Finally, he should resign. Who would mourn the departure of such a compromised standard-lowerer as this Tartish Weep?
“As convener of the Scottish Currency Group he’s presently engaged in trying to solve the party’s self-inflicted weakness over its lack of a coherent currency policy”. This is a bit of a tangent but I was thinking that it may be a positive thing to have Scottish names for our notes and coins. I checked out what they were called before 1707. From the list I’ve selected some names as possibilities.
Pund na h-Alba – Pund for short,
Merk – 100 Merks to the Pund,
Lion – 50 Merks to the Lion,
Noble – 10 Merks to the Noble,
Bawbee – 5 Merks to the Bobee.
A bit of fun with possibilities.
[…] we saw his response to a very valid, polite and honest opinion from Dr Rideout Lothians Member, SNP Policy Development Committee Convener, Scottish Currency Group, he claimed that those that actually wanted independence were a faction within the SNP, he railed […]
[…] must be crushed harder and control tightened further. When you read what people like Alyn Smith or Pete Wishart view as acceptable public comment on events it certainly looks more like trench warfare than […]