Parliamentarianism revisited
Drew Hendry won a lot of praise from Yes supporters a few days ago when he seized the Mace in the Commons. It’s not easy to speak in the chamber at any time and doing so in the face of hostility from the Speaker is challenging indeed.
The institution of Parliament is, by its very design, geared towards control by the British establishment. Not only are all sides uniformly hostile, but even the staff and officials, usually so polite and deferential, turn on you. So it was an intimidatory atmosphere in which he acted and it can’t have been easy.
But the idea that Scottish MPs should routinely require to suffer the scorn and derision poured upon their nation and their people is long past its sell-by date. Much of the vitriol shouted wouldn’t be countenanced elsewhere and just because it’s supposedly Honourable Members who act in that manner doesn’t justify it. There comes a time when words aren’t enough.
That’s compounded by the laws being passed – in that case the Internal Market Bill – which are hugely damaging to Scotland and its people’s welfare. SNP MPs have pledged to defend Scottish interests, so the idea that they should supinely accept laws imposed that cause such harm to Scotland is patently absurd. It’s SNP elected members’ duty to speak out and to take actions reflecting the anger felt and dangers faced by Scottish democracy.
However, English Votes For English Laws, Brexit and now the Internal Market Bill have shown that attacks on Scottish interests in Westminster aren’t an aberration but are part of a pattern of undermining our land and its elected Parliament. It’s quite some time now since the SNP group walked out in disgust, to widespread public support, yet the situation has worsened and the crisis of Scottish democracy has deepened.
So, Drew Hendry deserves all the plaudits he received not just from the grassroots but from senior party figures. However, that latter support itself raises questions. If it’s right for an individual elected member to speak out and engage in parliamentary disruption then why should it not be done by the parliamentary group, as indeed has been done before? What happened to the promised “campaign of guerrilla tactics”?
Individual actions are laudable and important, from the moral perspective of the actor but especially for the cause. Not paying the poll tax was felt to be a moral duty by many, because of its inherent unfairness and the future effects on communities. But it was a mass campaign that ultimately resulted in its, and Thatcher’s, removal. There’ve been innumerable cases of legitimate actions by individuals which are multiplied by collective action, and it’s that unity and co-ordination that brings success.
Surely, then, that should be the case with Parliamentary disruption. Individual actions are laudable but it’s collective and, more importantly, coordinated actions that are more likely to have effect. Rather than just congratulating one member for what they’ve done, isn’t it time to prepare all members for what they should do? Even those members least supportive of such actions have talked about parliamentary disruption in the event of a Section 30 order being refused after the Holyrood elections.
But why wait? Scotland’s plight is worsening by the day and the incompetencies of Westminster rule are being magnified. The supposed Mother Of Parliaments put into recess before calamity, and calls for recall ignored. Sins of the Tory administration are agreed to, or go unchallenged, by the Labour opposition. The time for a change in parliamentary tactics has arrived, even if it’ll be constrained by the almost inevitability of virtual parliament for the first few weeks – if not months – of next year. Action must commence before, not after, the Holyrood elections.
Suggestions of refusing to sit on Public Bill committees go nowhere near far enough. That’s too little too late. Steps must be taken to show Scotland’s anger (and not just that of SNP voters, either) at the contempt it’s being treated with.
When the Scottish Affairs Committee produced a report on drug policy during the last Parliament it was ignored by the British government. Instead, following their majority in 2019 – despite yet another comprehensive rejection in Scotland – the Tories have crammed it with English MPs. That’s treating Scots MPs with contempt, yet all the while it’s Scots that are dying in our communties through drug addiction. In any event it’s not the job of SNP MPs to administer the British state, least of all when it’s actively undermining our own land.
It’s time therefore that SNP parliamentary tactics changed and parliamentarianism ended. Just what that will entail has to be discussed and planned but action there must be. Righteous anger isn’t saving victims of drug addiction, virtuous outrage has neither stopped Brexit nor mitigated its effects, and honourable speeches aren’t protecting our land or its democracy.
Scotland needs MPs that act, not just speak, in its interests, and that must be by collective, not just individual, actions.
‘It’s time therefore that SNP parliamentary tactics changed and parliamentarianism ended. Just what that will entail has to be discussed and planned but action there must be.
Scotland needs MPs that act, not just speak, in its interests, and that must be by collective, not just individual, actions.’
Oh for Fuck Sake Kenny. Too little, too late, and YOUR THE MP – GET ON WITH IT.
Waiting……….
“Oh for Fuck Sake Kenny. Too little, too late, and YOUR THE MP – GET ON WITH IT.”
He’s not ALL the MPs, though. Could we please try not to shoot the people who are sticking their necks out making our arguments?
Well said, Kenny MacAskill. Exactly right. Action, not words.
At last. Somebody has seen the penny drop. The other spineless jellies in the party however will not comply. Kf that you can be sure.
Could you envisage Wishart using guerilla tactics against an institution he shows great involvement with ? (speaker alplication)
Right idea Kenny. Wrong personnel.
‘Keir Starmer working ‘hand in glove’ with Tories to push Brexit on Scotland’. The National, 21st Dec 2020
‘There is in all practical effect, no genuine English centre-left. On Westminster ‘Anschluss’ absorption of Scotland & Wales, the English ‘left’ are sub/consciously on the same British page as their right-wing counterparts whose collective indoctrination psychologically and emotionally compels them to ‘believe’ the Scots & Welsh ‘owe’, and are ‘owned’ *by* England…’ #GG, 3rd October 2020
‘Internal Market Bill – A UK Enabling Act, Anschluss, Regime Change, A Soldier’s Psychological Tool & ‘Rope-A-Dope’ Distraction’ (2020) by #GaslightingGilligan
https://wp.me/p94Aj4-21W
Twitter: @GasGilligan (© 2017) *free download*.
Drugs policy in Scotland is not a good basis for a war on WM. Nothing in the SCot Parl proposals gives hope to addicts.
Instead, the SG should go back to following UK policy which it is clear is far more effective than that of Scotland’s.
“Scotland needs MPs that act, not just speak”
So Kenny, you are a Scottish MP that has just spoken. Now act!
Absolutely spot on Kenny. Well said.
We need actions, and we need them now, before it’s too late.
God, I wish the rest of the SNP would wake the hell up.
The time for action is today, walkout of parliament and don’t go back. By participating in this sham means you are conforming to the sovereignty of parliament.
Actions have been largely missing for about 6 years now. A lack of action seems to be party policy now.
A question. Was Drew Hendry’s action not an opportunity for the rest of the group to follow suit? As you rightly say, it takes more than individual action, but had one other MP followed him, perhaps that might have encouraged a second, then a third, and perhaps that might have resulted in the mass action you say is needed. Given the SNP’s appearance at Westminster is largely symbolic, was there no one else of a like mind who might have encouraged a mass walk out?
The ermined, robes of messrs Ede and Ravenscroft do not fade, nor the encaustic tiles of messers Craven, Dunhill and Jackson tarnish, suddenly.
Nor has the influence of SNP MP’s just come to an abrupt, spectacular end.
They have been slowly worn down (like carpet slippers) and if it has always been the plan to leave that place and their politicians of little worth.
Now is that time.
Ah. The mother of all parliaments. I have never heard or seen info about any father.
“In democratic countries knowledge of how to combine is the mother of all other forms of knowledge; on its progress depends that of all the others.”
Alexis De Tocqueville Democracy in America
Sinn Fein must look at the SNP contingent and lack of actions in securing Scotland’s right for self determination and think “what a shower of spineless cowards”
Today is a waste of everyone’s time and everyone knows it.
The fact that Blackford wanted the discussion extended, is a joke.
They will be spouting to closed ears, no one will care about how great the speeches are.
Thanks for again speaking out Kenny but folk like Wishart and Blackford are treating this like a school debate championship.
Action would speak louder than words in this case.
I’m not even tuning in to watch this waste of oxygen debate
Been sayin as much on the previous thread Kenny …. and don’t walk out make them fling you out as Drew Henry did.
It took a few minutes to use the Westminster process to get him to leave, times that by 40 odd and it’s you the SNP MPs who will be frustrating the Unionist MPs for a wee change…
The perfect time is the Brexit Bill vote for all sorts of reasons and that Westminster has prevented the Scottish MPs voting just because they spoke as Scotland voted in the Chamber makes quite a statement.
I’d say don’t vote for or against this bill and forget abstaining…. just ensure “Mr Speaker ” blocks yer vote… everyone should , and as one or two leave the chamber others should take their place till all of Scotlands MPs are ejected.
I doubt if any of your voters will have a problem with it 🙂
Well said Kenny. Its the best time for Scotland to go. Lets hope notice is given today. The only purpose of SNP MP’s is to end the UK alliance, so lets get it done. You have the Scotland majority. You have the sovereignty of the people. You have the treaty. You have the justification – enforced brexit and constitutional change imposed on Scots against our will. The world will be watching a calm considered national withdrawal, fully justified, democratic, lawful, and right. Let’s get independence done.
I’m ISP not SNP but I support you wholeheartedly Mr MacAskill MP. We will not be fielding candidates if there’s another GE before indy. Our fight is here in Scotland so you are representing us as well.
Know that we will support you. More radical, justified angry action is part of what we are about.
I stand with Mr Kenny MacAskill MP.
Here’s hoping that the feeling of despair at hearing again and again MPs and MSPs telling us how bad brexit is without any call for action is going to spread and intensify throughout the 56%.
Denise Findlay was speaking for me when she said ‘they are not my kind of politician’.
Yes they need to highlight over and over again the imminent danger of Westminster and the IMB so the public know but not in order to get votes but get the Independence.
Any action will do, we are fighting the deadly tory virus.
‘Be fast, have no regrets, you must be first mover, if you need to be right before you move, you will never win. Perfection is the enemy of the good. Everyone’s afraid of error, but the greatest error is not to move.’
Mike Ryan on Covid in mid March.
Good words, Kenny Mac, but unless there’s some sort of culture of fear, not from the Tories, but from the leader of the SNP – Nicola Sturgeon – then I can well understand that most of our cowardly MPs are feart to speak out, or worse.
Everyone knows the answer, when presented with the following question: between your average Westminster Tory MP and Pete Wishart, which undertakes their position satisfactorily?
Until we rid ourselves of the negative, useless – not fit for purpose – effect of the comfy Pete’s in the SNP, Scotland will remain tied to Westminster for as long as they need us.
Wishart must go, before Scotland can advance.
A walk out won’t garner much publicity when it’s only Ian Blackford and Patrick Grady walking out. A few MPs prematurely shutting down Zoom won’t do it either. It’s a puzzler!
So are they warriors or jellyfish;
time to canvass them all
Whatever is done, let it be done with confidence and conviction.
The world is watching.
There comes a time when words aren’t enough.
Exactly, Mr MacAskill. So will there be a walk-out today?
Liz g @12.03pm
‘I’d say don’t vote for or against this bill and forget abstaining…. just ensure “Mr Speaker ” blocks yer vote… everyone should , and as one or two leave the chamber others should take their place till all of Scotlands MPs are ejected.’
I like your thinking. Make it a lengthy spectacle which the media can’t ignore.
So make it hard for the place to work. Call ‘I see strangers’ ever 30minutes. Call endless divisions so that bills run out of time.
Force them to change Erskine May to stop you. Make our presence there so onerous they will kick us out no referendum required.
One SNP MP with some fire at least. Just need to convince the other 47 now.
“Barnstorming speeches” do SFA.
Co-ordinated action of a group requires leadership.
We lack SNP leaders in westminster and holyrood. In fact we lack leadership in Scotland.
That is the problem.
I agree kenny – action not words.
Show that you mean it and boycott the vote today then
Kenny is right, we need MPs who will act and to that end we need someone who will put a rocket up the backsides of the likes of Pete Wishart and John Nicolson who are collecting salaries for sitting on their hands and doing bugger all.
Need a few more people like Kenny.
The puffed up windbag, Blackford, is entirely useless.
Would a ‘Wee Black Book’-v2 be of any help?
Detailing a timeline of what these MPs, MSPs have been doing since 2016 & the outcome.
For example:
2014/20 Brexit. Failed. No indy progress.
2018/19 S30 x 2. Rejected. No indy progress.
2020 Indy parked for forseeable future.
MPs comments etc.
Then detail a timeline between now & the 2021 election of what indy peeps & MPs supporting ‘Plan B’ need to do. Either forcing a mandate for a plebiscite ref or replacement of the FM.
If the SNP MPs are just going to repeat the same nonsense of a S30 we could at least make it harder for them to explain their actions at the doorsteps or better still, force them to act.
As Dr Johnson didn’t quite say,
“The noblest prospect which a Scotchman ever sees, is the high road that leads him back to Scotland.”
Somebody left the door open again.
Liz grunter has sneaked in past the Wings security guards.
Get her out of here.
Get back to your Ginger Dugger “Sturgeon is Brill” website.
Ya wee Lanarkshire, Buckfast addict.
I see Mr.Nasty is back.
Been saying this for some time – use the ridiculously outdated Westminster traditions and processes against them; do whatever you can to prolong debates/stop processes etc. Every time Clown-in-Chief says Scottish Nationalist Party bring up points of order or whatever it is until he retracts and apologises. Ask questions in Gaelic. Whatever. I don’t know the ins and outs, that is an MP’s job…
Kenny,
When is your gaffer going to get back to talking about actual politics???
That’s nearly a year of no political debate, despite us being finally removed from the EU and an Internal Market Bill being dumped on us,,,among other critical political issues.
Thank you for penning this piece, Kenny.
Our right to demonstrate our displeasure has long passed it’s sell by date by the usual methods.
Time for a spine to let a shiver run up.
“Somebody left the door open again.
Liz grunter has sneaked in past the Wings security guards.
Get her out of here.
Get back to your Ginger Dugger “Sturgeon is Brill” website.
Ya wee Lanarkshire, Buckfast addict.”
Enough. Banned.
Compare this from Kenny to yesterday’s playground patter from that throbber Wishart.
SNP MPs are just “too nice” to carry out any disruptive actions,,, and they are shit scared of their boss.
The problem here in Scotland is obvious! What has the population and the SNP have in common?
They don’t fully agree with each other, there is no ‘ consensus ad idem ‘. Firstly Scotland is fighting against a gigantic monster, Parliament , House of Lords, news media both paper radio and internet, plus its warmongering pals across the atlantic. Meanwhile we whinge at being held to ransom by the U.K. gang but without hesitation will join the EU gang without question? Bizarre to say the least
Even the EU don’t always agree. France a Germany are power hungry and want an EU Army? Against who?
Back at the ranch the Labour Party is split with Jeremy Corbyn wrongly labelled as a Jew hater, Alex Salmond is wrongly accused of crimes, but the Tory’s keep haemorrhaging monies off to their offshore accounts and bleat on about the disgust thrown at us in parliament and round and round we go till we disappear up our own arseholes.
You want everyone in Scotland to agree on independence?
Pay them large sums of money otherwise take your dream and shove it up your arse ! Because everything else is meaningless!
SNP GET YOUR FINGER OUT YOUR ARSE AND GET ME INDEPENDENCE AND F#@K COVID!
Today would be a good day to start. 48 points of order?
Could the awkward squad not form a committee or a group inside the SNP parliamentarians , Holyrood and Westminster, to initiate etc such disruption?
Tories have 1922 and ERG, with no doubt a few messier hidden ones?
Kenny MacAskill , Thank you for this .
The only thing that the Snp Mps should be doing at Westminster just now is disrupting the proceedings as much as possible although it’s difficult just now with so much being conducted on-line . For any Mp there in person it should be refusing to sit down when a question they’ve asked doesn’t get a straight answer , walking out when they’re ignored in debates etc . Westminster and the English Mps have not shown one bit of respect to the Scottish people since the Brexit referendum in 2016 so why should we the Scottish people show them any respect in the future .
.
I’m watching some of the Brexit bill debate just now and it’s interesting that Dianne Abbot is saying that she’ll vote against the deal so Keir Starmer doesn’t have the support of all the Labour Mps , so all the Mps including the Snp Mps who are going to vote against the deal should be careful as it would only take some Tory Mps to abstain as Michael Heseltine wants them to do and could you end up with this deal being voted down ? .
Also it’s ironic listening to them talking about “ Britain “ taking back control from the EU , If you substitute “ Scotland “ for “ Britain “ in this debate it’s exactly how we feel about Scotland taking back control of Scotland by being independent of England .
And now it’s D Ross talking dross and it’s the usual Snp bad , LOL .
Excellent Kenny. Your article’s are always well received and reminds me when all hope is waning and the reason why I am still a member of the party that we just need the majority of MPs and MSPs to feel and act the same as you and Drew. Cheers Stu for posting .
Re FFS Kenny Get on with it.
You’re quite right, far too blunt of me. Specially when he’s giving us a sweetie.
I shall instead refer everyone to the scene in Life of Brian the night before he died, when the PJF/JPF held an emergency meeting to decide on how to rescue him. Or was it a meeting to decide about a meeting, to consider rescuing him… I forget.
Always look on the bright side of life…
A collective New Year”s resolution not to enter the place until we have a plan that ignores Westminster and puts its faith in the Scottish people. Those that sign it will get plenty of backing. Wish art can continue on his quest to be Speaker. We teeter on the brink whilst Peter is on the drink
I’m with Liz g!
Thank you Mr MacAskill.
‘It’s SNP elected members’ duty to speak out and to take actions reflecting the anger felt and dangers faced by Scottish democracy.’
Why are elected members not speaking out and taking action?
Who decides when elected members should speak out and/or take action?
Is it Nicola Sturgeon?
Is it Ian Blackford?
Is it a parliamentary group decision?
Is it up to individual members?
Why was Drew Hendry left on his own?
Is it the Short Money?
Is it just too good a job to jeopardise?
And so on.
Tell us more please.
I can save you the trouble Mr MacAskill of trying to figure out why SNP MP’s aren’t becoming more proactive against this terrible union that’s increasingly becoming worse for Scots and Scotland.
SNP MP’s (most anyway) have settled in and are now part of the establishment and enjoying the benefits of being part of it, so much so that the likes of Pete Wishart actually wanted to become the Speaker of the House, and other SNP MP’s are active and vocal members on committees such as COBRA.
The National newspaper carried a story today on Ian Blackford, who lashed out at China comparing the Chinese to Hitler, Blackford has no right to take this approach we didn’t send him down to Westminster to do its dirty work for them, we send MP’s down to Westminster to do Scotland’s bidding not to make very powerful international enemies on behalf of Westminster.
SNP MP’s at Westminster should be settling up, I’m embarrassed and ashamed at their lack of grit and integrity when it actually comes to physically doing anything, Blackford and Co only whine and moan and put on a show for the public back home in Scotland, we’re tired of their false rhetoric, its time for real action.
Kenny…
The squeaking sound in the background is the stable door swinging on its rusty hinges.
As for the horse…
Along with a huge number of other Yes-minded people, I have long wondered why you and your colleagues continue to legitimate that place with your presence.
Given that you know full-well the whole Westminster show is geared to produce certain outcomes, precious-few, if any, to Scotland’s advantage, this simple, commonsensical question really has to be answered.
This, If only to assuage legitimate fears of the Parliamentary Party’s collective seduction and resultant capture by a quiescent Unionism .
Davie says. UKgov drugs policy is working better than the Scottish Governments policy, Davie says, obviously has not noticed that the drug related deaths in Manchester are double that of Scotlands, or even noticed that drug related deaths in Liverpool, are four times that of Scotland, Davie says shite.
Kenny. Well said, chief, you have my committed support. I am hoping to get home soon and there, know that I will be at your side in whatever action is required to free our nation.
Got your back, bud and thanks for showing the ex-drummer what a real pair of Cojones looks like! ?????????
Liz says:
30 December, 2020 at 12:02 pm
Today is a waste of everyone’s time and everyone knows it.
The fact that Blackford wanted the discussion extended, is a joke.
Business as usual. Strategy profoundly unfathomable.
What did Scotland ever do to deserve this???
Why is no one answering our questions???
All SNP reps in Holyrood and Westminster are hoping we will just shut up and go away.
The advice from Bute House to her lapdogs is to,,,
“Just ignore the bastards, that’s what my husband and I do”
Ottomanboi 12.16
“The world is watching”.
Err, no they are not. They couldn’t give a fig. As far as the word is concerned, the U.K. has left the Eu and concluded an amicable trade deal.
The notion that World leaders are waiting to see what the SNP do is just about as deluded as one can be.
I’m more interested in what the SNP will do though. I rather think they will carry on pretending they want indyref2 whilst doing everything they can to make sure they are not cornered into holding it. They know they cannot win it at this time.
Off Topic slightly.
I see the European Movement in Scotland has put up a video on YouTube:
“We declare that Scotland is a European country, embracing our common values of peace, democracy, human rights, equality, sustainability and solidarity.
The clear wish of the great majority of the Scottish people is that Scotland should be within the European Union.”
YouTube link:
https://tinyurl.com/yb2b3lbt
Apologies for breaking the Thread.
Kenny, I applaud the the speech kenny, but where is the action,?
For long enough on these blogs I have thought, words are cheap, when you hear our snps,
And for the same length of time I have thought that is the same with the people of Scotland, whom sit and complain or moan, so where is their action?
The only analyse I can come up with is, is not everyone is born to be a leader, and therefore, when our leaders let us down … ….., well we all knew how quickly a crowd disperses and melts away,
Now your asking the disbanded crowd to give the leaders some bravery.
You’re asking us to give you direction.
Our supposed leaders in Scotland are sitting way above any ordinary man here, in finances and position., you are turning to us to lead you?
One day my hope is that the Scottish people recognise the right they have to be free, that government are meant to work as servants on behave of the people, not the other way around,.
Sooner or later the inevitable will happen, the people will rise because they are unable to walk on their knees.
“If you’re waiting for the right time, it’s now.”
I’ll support a walkout, but only if the MPs doing so forfeit all salaries and expenses, and resign their seats since they do not recognise Westminster.
Lead by example.
I no longer care what they do. Actually it’s easier on my flimsy brain and even flimsier heart if they continue to do annoying and disappointing things – a shower of losers.
As for those Rev refers to who are trying to do the right thing, sorry, but fuck them too. You can’t be a good soldier in a really shit political party that’s run by a bunch of scumbags.
The big question is whether we will ever vote for them and trust them again, even if they change leader and grow a pair?
Once a political party loses trust, it’s hard to win it back. Look at the Labour Party, for example; the grim plebs up north voted for self harm and Brexit just to teach them a lesson. In Scotland Labour could make Jesus Christ leader and promise Sky Sports for free and they’d still get hammered.
Yeah, I know, but what about the polls? You’ll see. The people and the polls are behind the curve.
One of the biggest mistakes the social sciences ever made was to assume ‘rational choice’ lay behind the behaviour of voters. I wish it was true.
It’s likely that the damage is done and the SNP is basically finished, no matter what they do.
Think it was the PFJ not the PJF.
Agree that a mass walk out and disruptive actions are long overdue. I think they actually enjoy Blackford’s moral outrage and righteous indignation from the pulpit, you can tell from the Tory guffaws and popcorn spat all over the floor of the House. Fuck that.
Jack Murphy 1.42
I seem to remember the great Alex Salmond preferring the EFTA route.
Just before he was stabbed in the back by Sturgeon and her hand of crooks.
Too little, too late Kenny.
This should have been SNP Parliamentary Policy the minute TMay said “Now is not the time.”
The UK left the EU on the 31st January this year.
Brexit will be legislated today.
UK transition period ends tomorrow at Midnight.
Maybe Scottish Government announcement of Treaty Breach as applies to the Union 1707 via Brexit Bill.
Announce invoking Vienna Convention to annul the Union with Holyrood 2021 a confirmatory Referendum on Independence for the Sovereign Scottish Electorate.
Now that would be “Parliamentarianism revisited” worth writing about!
Beaker, I second that.
Good article Kenny. Hopefully more of your colleagues are waking up. This is the crossroads for the SNP- you’ve turned into the Irish Parliamentary Party of a hundred
years ago. Pointless, effete and corrupted.
Take the initiative. Do something. Words are no longer enough.
re Astonished 30/12 12.22PM
There are no inspirational leaders.
It says it all when the most admired person in the UK for many decades is a humble young black kid, brought up in poverty, who just happens to be quite skilled at running with a ball at his feet. Too bad he isn’t Scottish…in more ways than one.
Good news – Cosy Feet’s not getting to do his speech today.
Suddenly winter doesn’t feel so long now does it.
He’s put it on his twitter and blog sites.
Beaker, I second that kind of walk out. Kenny the people here have spoken. you know the direction.
Dave Somerville says:
30 December, 2020 at 12:51 pm
“SNP MPs are just “too nice” to carry out any disruptive actions,,, and they are shit scared of their boss.”
They should be. She might stich them up next.
Kenny…
The squeaking sound you can hear is not Ian ‘Paper Tiger’ Blackford’s poor attempt at whistling ‘Ode to Joy’, but the stable door swinging on rusty hinges.
As for the horse, well…
Who elected that lump of useless shit Blackford as “leader” anyway???
Don’t remember seeing him at any demo outside the BBC Scotland HQ in Glasgow.
Or was he there in mind, not body.
Ah well, that’s ok then.
OK then Blackford, go ahead, lead!!!
I’m starting to think that 2020 is ending rather “well”. We’re clear of a lot of uncertainty. On Brexit, the light at the end of the tunnel definitely is an oncoming train and for COVID-19 the vaccines, while not stopping transmission will at least allow us to get clear of paralysing lock-downs.
Now with Kenny MacAskill showing there still might be signs of life and even vitality in the Westminster 48, prospects for 2021 and even a Scottish Spring are starting to improve.
Where’s my shovel?
David Oga 2.00
Yes, Sturgeon will nail anybody who gets in the way of her path to the UN.
Nicola’s issued her orders to the MPs, the bromide pills distributed, Ian Blowhard will deliver his
ruthlesstoothless speech again “Scotland will not be dragged out… blah, blah”. Scotland rejects…Another day of SNP talk talk.
Please, please prove me wrong and force me to eat my words.
All
As a starter, I will re-declare my position. I am an Englishman living in England. I, like most folk in England, don’t mind whether Scotland stays, or leaves, the Union.
Many of my comments over the years have been about asking contributors on Wings to look ahead, to plan, to “game out”, events and strategies.
As has been argued forcibly by many here, it would appear that the Scottish Government are not very good at it. For instance, tomorrow, the very eventuality that they said they would not allow to happen – will happen.
I have read the recent threads and the dissatisfaction with the performance of the SNP leaders and I also note the popularity of the SNP generally in Scotland and I note the increased “noise” around calls for indyref2 – as soon as possible.
What I still don’t see, read or hear, are the practical arguments and strategies that will be used to counter the inevitable onslaught from PF2 – when it inevitably starts. It’s as if “Yessers” think nothing will change the minds of Scottish voters now.
I would suggest Wings contributors sit down with a piece paper and a pen and play “pretend”. Pretend you are the head of the Project Fear 2 campaign on behalf of the No camp. What arguments would you now make to show how bad an idea it would be for Scotland to leave the UK at this time?
Your starting point is that the UK is now not in the EU and has a quota free, tariff free, free trade agreement with the EU.
Let me help kick things off:
All the arguments made by the Scottish Government for why leaving the EU would be an economic disaster for the UK – should therefore apply, with bells on, to the concept of Scotland leaving the UK?
Err, 1. Much was made by the SNP of the rights of UK citizens’ rights to live and work in the EU being removed. Less than 2% of UK citizens live in the EU – whilst over 14% of Scottish citizens live in the UK – outside of Scotland. Clearly the freedom of Scottish citizens to do what 14% of them currently do would be seriously curtailed if Scotland left the UK. Scottish citizens would have to apply, in the queue, with citizens of other countries from all around the world, to come and live and work in the UK (a country where the boarder is 59 miles from Glasgow).
2. Much was made of the fact that 43% of UK exports went to the EU and any increase in “friction”, even with a free trade deal, would have enormous consequences for the UK economy. Meanwhile, 60% of Scottish exports are to the rest of the UK (clearly more than to the rest of the world put together) and three times the volume exported to the EU. The Scottish economy is totally reliant on trade with the rest of the UK. Any impact on trade with the customer that takes 60% of all exports would be disastrous.
3. … Scotland outside of both EU and UK
4. … Currency
5. … Deficit.
6. …. Austerity
7. … NATO
8 …. International Aid
9 … Defence
10 … Tax Systems
11. …Income Tax and Corporation Tax Rates
… and so on
I don’t know why the majority of Scots didn’t vote for Independence in indyref1. However, if I was the Head of Project Fear 2 now, I would feel reasonably confident that I could provoke enough feelings of “now is not the time” to also win Indyref2.
As I have written numerous times, Ms Sturgeon is an intelligent individual. Maybe she has learned from her mistakes and now has teams of intelligent folk that “game out” various scenarios with a little more care and vigour.
I would suggest to you that your general perplexity at her unwillingness to push for indyref2, at this time, is explained by the above. She knows she can’t win it at this time.
Good news – Cosy Feet’s not getting to do his speech today.
Suddenly winter doesn’t feel so long now does it.
He’s put it on his twitter and blog sites.
And from Ian Dunt’s Twitter account
Owen Paterson (Con) is abstaining, ‘”The worry for me is that Northern Ireland fails. I would love to vote for this today, but I really cannot vote for a measure which actually divides the UK, has a different regime on tax. Tonight, I’m very torn, I wish this well. I will be abstaining.”
I think they call that a position of Principle. Not often used in the context of Tories admittedly.
Weel, it disnae look there’s much fire in Blackford’s belly. Mair lyke bein gurlied bi a deid yowe. I guess we’re in for two layers of colonial oppression for a guid while yet, sae lang as thon daeless SNP heid bummers stey in pouer.
Tho I did like his talk on Scotland being a European nation, me once upon a time being a Port o’ Leith shipping clerk with Leith, Hull & Hamburg Steamship, and agent for several European ‘national lines’ such as Iceland Steamship (Eimskip), Royal Netherlands Steamship, Finnlines, Hapag Lloyd Hamburg, East Asiatic C’hagen etc etc. At least he was right on our European pedigree.
Now much of Scotland’s trade and culture has gone sooth, so to speak, the total Anglo absorption of the Scots progresses, an wi Blackford aye still in his Hoose o Commons ‘place’.
The last bit of faint hope that I had that the SNP would try to secure the restoration of Scotland’s national sovereignty or even defend the “sovereignty of the people” within the “Union of equals” ended on 31 January 2020 with Sturgeon’s surrender speech.
So credit to Kenny MacAskill for his nice words. But Kenny, Angus McNeill and Joanna Cherry could lead by example by resigning the whip of the Sturgeon Colonial Administrators club aka the SNP.
Use The system, disrupt Westminster at every opportunity.
Get pulled up on the dress code and unsuitable language.
Slow down the Victorian process at every opportunity, countless points of order etc.
Sensible Dave, one of the reasons that most of our produce goes to England is set out in the treaty of the union .
Perhaps we may be able to directly do our own exports via our own ports if the treaty came to an end.
Aye what’s the bleedn point
Everyone here can recite the Script line by line
Talk talk talk bluster bluster bluster with fk all results
I could sit here in front of my Computer and get the same response from the unionist MPS so again if they are not going to disrupt the medieval outdated way this rancid pit of corruption what’s the fn point ,
Walk out , by sitting there they are giving acceptance and approval to a foreign country’s parliament.
The SNP wouldn’t recognise guerrilla tactics if one jumped on top of them
Davie Oga says:
30 December, 2020 at 1:56 pm
2This is the crossroads for the SNP- you’ve turned into the Irish Parliamentary Party of a hundred
years ago”.
Remember the fate of the IPP. Sinn Féin, founded 1905, 13 years old, contesting its FIRST General Election in 1918, obliterated them.
Sinn Féin 73 MPs (+73)
Irish Parliamentary Party 6 MPs (minus 67)
Irish Unionist 22 MPs (+5)
Labour Unionist 3 MPs (+3)
Independent Unionist 1 MP (+1)
And yes, I know it was an unusual election.
Remember the Scottish Labour Party’s fate in 2015
Aye. Some excellent comments and suggestions as to a way forward. Just the sort of stuff that should have been going on for years now.
Incidentally. the next time some lippy oik fancies their patter re Scotland, someone pick up the Mace and thump them with it…. that should provoke an interesting reaction. Anyway enough of my fantasising, as if any of you would.
A thought for you, regarding the issue of drug policy, take a tip from (I believe) New Zeland and introduce what is required anyway and force Westminster and the establishment to react. GFDI as I used to hear managers say. Then fight them on it in public.
While this is on the go, pick another no, no, area of policy, that is Westminster controlled only (and that we need) and introduce it here. Rinse and repeat.
Disrupt and destabilise. In short, return in kind that which is dished out to you, but do it in spades.
Over to you.
Welp. Regardless of the no win outcome of today’s fun fest. We are entering a new reality, where the argument for independence has a much more interesting landscape.
Instead of the constant undertone of “you won’t survive without us” that has been one of the pillars of the Unionist argument (and we have had to struggle with that one internally – 300 years of gaslighting will do that to you), we have a new premise – stay with what looks increasingly like a failed and declining state, or join Europe as an equal partner in a stronger economy, more equitable political landscape (generally), and frankly, much more fun.
If the SNP can’t forge independence out of this situation, we need a new vehicle.
… Oh dear! I have just witnessed a mugging!
I hold no particular favour for Michael Gove … but he just handed Blackford his arse on a platter … roasted and carved.
Just walk and cause as much disruption on the way, eh the exit is on your left tell them to stick their English parliament up their collective arses .
Scotland in the Union has been something of a provincial backwater for the last three hundred years but need our politicians have to rub our noses in it?
Plainly our guys need to exercise freedom of imagination and take themselves out of that place before it crushes what wit they might possess.
Haven’t these Scots had enough of Anglo-Saxon patronizing and cultural conceit?
senseless fk off
and thats being nice
James Jae 12.21
You wrote “Sensible Dave, one of the reasons that most of our produce goes to England is set out in the treaty of the union .
Perhaps we may be able to directly do our own exports via our own ports if the treaty came to an end.”
… I have to say James, if that is the sum total of your reponse to just one, but important, aspect of an impending PF2 onslaught … you might as well give up now.
Robert Graham
…. which bit of my comment did you disagree with Robert?
Well that’s it, now the walk out??? Waiting?
Meantime thanks Kenny. Is that why you returned to politics to rescue the independence cause? Is that why Alex Neil and Alex Salmond have written a paper on economic recovery? I can live in hope.
Anyway i decided quite some time ago that my second vote is going to the ISP. Come 1st January and nothing said by “Six Mandates, Waiting on the Terms of Brexit Nicola” I will join and campaign for them.
On a funnier note slimy Gove made me laugh by calling Ian “The people of Scotland blah, blah” Blackford the “Lochaber 1.” Sad eh?
Keep it up Rev. And Kenny get those eejits to commit to Scottish independence before they’re voted out! There’s already dark rumblings that the snp has turned into New Labour.
Went back over Kenny’s article, in view of todays Parliamentary vote….
‘virtuous outrage has neither stopped Brexit nor mitigated its effects, and honourable speeches aren’t protecting our land or its democracy.
Scotland needs MPs that act, not just speak, in its interests’.
Did you Act Kenny? – today’s vote would have been an opportune time.
Instead you’ve given us a last minute speech, promising much, doing little. No doubt St Nickla will be along shortly to give us her latest ‘strongest ever hint, at an Indyref2, sometime very soon, not just soon, but really, really soon.
Aw mooth and no trewsers. Thow’n us a wee sweetie to keep hope alive and make it look like your one of the good yins.
By yir actions shall we ken ye, and today, ye were aw talk.
Incase anyone’s interested The government won the vote by 521 to 73 on the Brexit deal, it now goes to the HoL.
A walk out is just a gesture. It has to be a refusal to take seats, Sinn Fein style. Then the Scottish people would realise the SNP are serious and would respond. But first a serious leader in place, instead of the narcissist schemer.
SNP are the hollow men
SNP are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Their dried voices, when
They whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In their dry cellar
Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion
Ian Blackford may well have possessed a mouth and an arsehole for 59 years, but he’s still at a loss when it comes to deciding which is used for talking, and which is used for the other.
Ian Lackforce has led the SNP doon there lang enough. It would be good to see what influence Kenny would bring if he had the post.
I appreciate Mr MacAskill’s input.
I don’t always agree on its merit, but at least he has no qualms about publishing opinion in a bear pit. Mr MacAskill receives both praise and censure BTL and may make of that what he will.
There is no bar to any of our elected politicians engaging on alternative media, indeed many appear to live for Twatter. What is curious is the dearth of them engaging anywhere else but Twatter.
Wings may be anathema to very many and if they wish for a friendly ear, there are many other blogs (perhaps more aligned to their views) where they could post their musings – vanishingly few seek to present their viewpoints on such media however.
When politicians speak about engaging with and representing their constituents and electorate, I always ponder whether they mean merely those not on their Twatter block list, or if they have some other means of engaging with the great unwashed.
Our politicians may queue to share their vision, very occasionally, via some column inches in MSM – yet they could freely disseminate their views with abandon daily and whenever the muse takes them, via the plethora of alternative media on offer – but they do not do so as a rule.
If it’s ok to chap umpteen doors of the grest unwashed for a quick blether, or just shove a leaflet through the letterbox, while seeking local (re) election; it is peculiar they have a sudden aversion to continuing to visit virtual doors, after the count is in and the jaicket is back over the chair.
I appreciate the virtual visit and leaflet today from Mr MacAskill – I’d appreciate a blether on the virual doorstep even more.
I’m surprised The Rev doesn’t run the occasional podcast with some of our esteemed representatives. A fledgling career as a political interviewer would be worth a punt surely…
“I would suggest to you that your general perplexity at her unwillingness to push for indyref2, at this time, is explained by the above. She knows she can’t win it at this time.”
If she can’t win starting from a 16-point lead, she needs to fuck off.
Does anybody know what is the short money payment to the SNP from the Westminster system and how significant could that be in keeping the SNP financially solvent?
“Aw mooth and no trewsers. Thow’n us a wee sweetie to keep hope alive and make it look like your one of the good yins.”
If you don’t think Kenny is one of the good guys, you REALLY need to recalibrate your compass.
I agree with Keny MacAskill, but, I fear, it is too late. Such tactics should have been in action from day 1. Westminster has NEVER once, since the treaty of union in 1707, shown the slightest respect for Scotland or its pewople.
All we have from Westminster is insults about Scotland and its people, day in, day out.
The SNP were not elected to ‘play along’ with the cosy, chummy boys club in Westminster. They were elected to settle up, not settle in. Too many of them are quite happy to plod along, whining about this and that, yet will not actually stand up for Scotland.
Make no mistake, if the SNP group put their collective minds to Westminster disruption, they could have had a very, very powerful effect. WHY they have not yet done so, should be the question asked.
Kenny has my respect, and should be applauded for standing against those in his party who seek to live out their years on Westminsters paycheck. However, it is too late. We need action NOW, today. Scotland is being forcibly removed from the EU, wholly against its wishes and in full abuse of Scotland’s consitutional rights.
For heavens sake, SNP, when oh when will you collectively tell England and the world, enough is enough. Every day, I and other think to ourselves, just how much abuse will it take from England, for the SNP to finally use the democratic mandates they already have and get us out of this abusive relationship permanently.
We need SNP MP’s to collectively leave Westminster, each individually making it clear how Scotland is leaving this awful, undemocratic, abusive relationship with bully-boy England. Westminster is England’s parliament, it and its inhabitants will NEVER treat Scotland with anything other than contempt. It is an abusive parliament, perpetuating colonial abuse of Scotland, since 1707. Honestly, for all the wrong reasons, Guy Fawkes actually did have the RIGHT idea, all those years ago. In some respects, it is a pity that he failed.
Well said Kenny. I have only the one question it’s not directed at Kenny though it’s for all the other SNP MP’s do you agree? If you do get planning and acting. If not have the courage to explain your reasoning, that at least might win you some grudging support. Hiding in a corner and hoping nobody asks you only attracts contempt and the accusation of cowardice.
Be aware the ordinary activists have run out of patience, many are intent on driving things forward and will act to stop any that are trying to apply the brakes.
Gradualism is dead, don’t volunteer to become a victim of that process.
The walk out has to be done to create best affect.
So get as many SNP members into that english cespit at a crucial debate, do a bit of disrupting, then tell the speaker, “we’re offski, stick your Parliament up your ronson lighter”.
Result of the vote is out.
There don’t seem to have been any rebels among the SNP MPs.
Ooh ‘duplicate comment detected’ – that’s new (to me) and very handy when my fickle fingers poke the wrong buttons.
Has that always been a feature of the comments section?
To answer the question about the importance of the short money the SNP receive. I think the figure for 2020/21 is estimated to run to £1.1 million. So very significant
Given Brexit articulates Westminster’s legal empowerment of expansionist English nationalism, standing under Westminster’s unsubstantial claim to legal authority over Scotland’s future, merely indicates a profound ignorance of constitutional law. It also highlights the harmful effects of a cultural conditioning towards subservience to the dogma of tradition.
http://archiwum.ivr.org.pl/1652/the-rule-of-recognition-a-remedy-for-the-external-uncertainty-of-law/
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
30 December, 2020 at 3:27 pm
“I would suggest to you that your general perplexity at her unwillingness to push for indyref2, at this time, is explained by the above. She knows she can’t win it at this time.”
If she can’t win starting from a 16-point lead, she needs to fuck off.”
A 16 point lead in spite of NS and the SNP and not because of them.
If the SNP MPs had fought for Scotland as hard as Pete Wishart fights against pro-indy people, we’d be independent by now.
Mr MacAskill, do su and yourself a favour and let your colleagues in Westmidden see the number and nature of the replies here. Almost all are and were fighting for independence in 2014 (aside from the very obvious ‘sensible’ trolls), yet here they are virtually pleading for the SNP to do something.
The disconnect is very real. Wake up SNP.
Someone said “the Scottish people will decide when …”
We have, over to you.
Westminster considers itself immutable to outside law and the source of ultimate legal authority in Brexitania. However, this is merely an articulation of English legal culture, which has historically been hostile towards Natural law.
The rule of recognition is essential to the rule-of-law, so standing under Westminster as the source of ultimate legal authority, simply places the ideological above moral reality and the potential for justice. So you’re on to plumbs if you ever expect Westminster to respect your legal rights.
Hart avec Kant: on the Inseparability of Law and
Morality
https://openscholarship.wustl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=law_jurisprudence
So with today’s vote going in favour of the (crappy) deal, does this mean the terms of “Brexit” are now known, and Scotland can now have that choice to determine its future it gave a democratic mandate or twa for… or was that position superseded by having to wait for the economic recovery from covid?
How will economic recovery from covid manage to be established as it will be intertwined with the economic hit we endure from leaving the EU?
I see they finally approve the oxford vaccine which is good news. I suspect they’ll have us all injected in the next few weeks.
Why does it take so long to produce vaccines, anyone know how they make them?
British constitutional practice wears clown shoes, so anyone deferring to its’ authority must really be a total diddy. That’s possibly why the SNP has been colonised by anti-foundationalists.
Kelsen and Hart on the Normativity of Law
https://www.scandinavianlaw.se/pdf/48-24.pdf
@Iain Lawson 3:34pm
‘To answer the question about the importance of the short money the SNP receive. I think the figure for 2020/21 is estimated to run to £1.1 million. So very significant.’
That’s a lot of money. I can’t see any evidence of it being used to promote the constitutional aims of the SNP. I wonder what it’s being used for?
Well said Kenny. For those who say it is too late; It is only too late when you’re dead.
It is time for action, use the British system to destroy it. You are in a battle for Scotland’s soul against an implacabls enemy. Stir the pot for all you are worth remember you are fighting for freedom which no honest man gives up but with life itself. The time for action is NOW.
I’d like to see more of Kenny’s thoughts on WoS – I know he’s had a few articles on here already.
The online platforms which REAL indy SNP MPs/MSPs have access to are vanishingly small these days. Wings is probably about the only one that works for them.
Put it this way – most times The National only reports “controversial” (ie indy) viewpoints within the SNP after Stu has highlighted/given a platform to them.
While I’ve supported WoS for years I never thought it’d be necessary to allow SNP members/MPs/MSPs to say what they believe.
You’re going to need another fundraiser in 2021 Stu regardless of your personal wishes. We can’t leave it like this……
@ Ian Lawson
Thanks.
Not an insignificant sum but piece it all together with MPs private pensions expenses and resigning bung
Always follow the money.
Mosstrooper @ 3.59
That’s possibly one of the most inspirational comments on here ever.
Now all I need is a reasonably high bridge…
Now i know how labour voters felt in Scotland a few years back (with the exception of Kenny and a few others in the SNP I’m feeling betrayed.)
Snp manifesto 2021 – “we will return Scotland to the EU so gies a mandate”. Lol (ahem – they need indy for that.) oh well, how about “2/3 in the polls in favour of indy we will do ref” – drag it out a bit longer – then back to section 30 – westminster says no, and rinse and repeat. All this accompanied by loads of bleating and slagging the Tories for good effect.
Well it’s not good enough.
If fan toosh cant do something before midnight tomorrow I predict that the ISP will have a lot of new members applying. And if Alex returns to the mix then that’s a game changer.
Are you reading this Alex?
The Rt Hon Alex Salmond – what say you?
@cenchos – nice one
could add
“mistah indy he dead”
or
“exterminate the brutes”
Actions not words, agreed, but what would those actions be then?
Disrupt parliamentary business – use their own filibuster tactics to grind it to a halt. SNP are 48 strong, so do it individually, so they’d have to exclude them one at a time. When you are excluded go out to parliament green and press the case for independence on every journalist you can find. When your ban expires go back inside and do it all again.
Why not? We have tried everything else
Unionist media bastards at Radio Clyde framing the first minister
Giving Baroness Harrison first and last shot of her making accusations
when it’s the Tories. Who have lied yet again to Scotland’s fishing fleet.
Next a free Tory Political broadcast from a nobody shadow education minister.
Our schools have 400 fewer teachers than 10 years ago so kids won’t have the
skills business’ require?
No reply from the SNP?
Do we have fewer kids to teach today?
Do we have more teaching assistants helping as this would
ease the £2.5 Budget cuts the Tories have given to Scotland.
Someone from SNP should be calling these clowns up and marking their card
and raise the profile of this sources of anti Scotland propaganda.
Looks like England has had over 900 Covid Deaths in just the last 24 hours.
Italy took their crown for being the worst managed country in Europe but they
are back on track to be the leader in the Covid incompetency death race.
BuggerLePanda says:
30 December, 2020 4:07 pm
@ Ian Lawson
“Thanks.
Not an insignificant sum but piece it all together with MPs private pensions expenses and resigning bung
Always follow the money.”
———————-
Not forgetting the ½ million quid “interwoven” somewhere in Mr. Murrel’s underpants and your on your way to nearly 2 million.
At last they’re going to do something… from Twitter. Boris is finished now.
@snphq: at precisely 11:59 tomorrow night, all SNP MPs and MSPs are going to dislodge their heads from their asses and recite ‘Ode to a Haemorrhoid” on zoom as we enter into the new year.
#abunchof #useless #bastards
Looks like the Rev was wrong suggesting the the SNP should not oppose the Brexit deal.
Starmer looked stupid voting for it
Next election SNP can say Labour supported the Tories on Brexit
The only thing that’ll light a rocket up the SNP MPs is the thought of losing their places at the trough and sadly there’s a few years to go before we get the chance to replace them. Unless independence comes along first though, in which case they’d no doubt be happily skipping up the road, leaving their salaries and expense accounts behind.
“Next election SNP can say Labour voted with Tories”
Wow. That’s a game changer isn’t it?
Independence will be inevitable with that revelation !
Standing on the Shoulders of the Low-Flying Jimmies
Handclapping
Singing ‘Ode to Joy’
A walk out, a coffee and a walk back in again
A verse of ‘Scots wha hae’
Playing keepy-uppy
Somebody wore a football top.
In return for lots of money.
Drew Hendry made an effort but was abandoned.
‘Hermless, hermless
There’s never nae bother fae me’
@ Bob Mack
I’m guessing such an astute strategy is for aw the goldfish in the electorate that can’t recall the makeup of BetterTogether…
@BuggerLePanda says:
30 December, 2020 at 4:07 pm
@ Ian Lawson
“Thanks.
Not an insignificant sum but piece it all together with MPs private pensions expenses and resigning bung
Always follow the money.”
That screws my suggestion that they all resign en masse… 🙂
Scotlands farming and fishing industry sacrificed for London bankers bonuses.
It’s a deal worse than no deal, unless you’re a London banker.
Alex Salmond needs to return. It’s the only thing that can save Scotland. We need him
to create a new party and lead the Yes movement
Alex please, please come back
OT but relevant, I just watched the AUOB ZOOM podcast with Angus B McNeil and Chris Mc Eleny , and a guy called Ross I think , asked Angus and Chris if Nicla can’t get bozo to change his mind on a sect 30 how are we expected to get Nicla to change her mind on plan B , there was much humphing and hawing but eventually Angus said the ONLY way was to email or write to her or Keith Brown to get it included in a manifesto
I have respect for Angus , Chris , Kenny and a few others but it is inconceivable that they WILL NOT NAME THE OBSTACLE to independence , and that is Sturgeon and her total clusterfuck
of the handling of the independence movement , in her term of power she has done NOTHING , I repeat NOTHING to promote or convince people of the NEED for independence , she is MORE interested in pursuing rights for chicks with dicks and threatening legal penalties with her HCB for anyone who DARES to challenge them
NOTHING about the benefits or discussion of EU v EFTA , NOTHING about the VAST amount of resources we have and the figures to show what is being STOLEN from Scotland
NOTHING to prove the GERS figures are pish even although she PROMISED a Scottish exposure
And all the while we are dragged out of the EU against our will and OUR citizens were promised we wouldn’t be , and we were PROMISED a vote on that decision
WE have 1 , that is 1 woman dictating all this misery on Scotland and Scots yet our elected representatives don’t have the balls to EXPOSE HER for the charlatan that she is
WE are truly stupid and consequently fucked
It’s NOT Bozo who is the enemy of Scotland it is Sturgeon, her acolytes and sycophants
And now that the terms of Brexit are known, stricter Covid restrictions on the way.
How long can she stretch this out? We’re at top tier at the moment.
The Rev 3.27
…. it’s a big call Rev. I assume you saw the Andrew Neil v Andrew Wilson interview on You tube? I admit to not understanding all of the issues discussed, but I was left with the distinct impression that it was accepted by Mr Wilson that it could take 10 years for Scotland to gain entry to the EU. That is a long time for Scotland to be out of the U.K. and not in the EU. That is just one aspect that a PF2 campaign would focus upon , let alone the other issues I raised in my comment that you responded to.
Cadogan Enright…
“Looks like the Rev was wrong suggesting the the SNP should not oppose the Brexit deal”
Errrrm, no, not wrong at all.
You might as well congratulate the Stewards for rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic; their having slid out of place thanks to a 15° forward list.
The SNP,.like the Stewards, should’ve left the deck chairs piled against the railings, taken to a life-boat and got clear while they had a chance.
Instead, they decided to let themselves and Scotland go down with the ship.
I for one will never forgive their inaction and incompetence in overseeing Scotland’s removal from the EU against the wishes of nearly two-thirds of those who expressed a choice.
Chocolate teapots, the lot of ’em.
@ Bob Mack 4.57
goofball – the next election will certainly be a Scottish election based on the mandate for a referendum
now the English have shot themselves in the economic foot, it is going to be increasingly difficult for red and blue tories to argue that people should vote for them and impossible to say that Independence does not have a mandate
do you are any of the negative folk on here actually do anything to fight for independence? eg raise money, organise campaigns or do work on the ground?
moaning on wings does not count.
That being said, I would prefer the SNP MP’s to copy the disruption of the old Irish Parliamentary Party of the Commons, but am not convinced if this would go down as well in Scotland as it did in Ireland.
This was my MP and more my generation https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00nm166 makes me feel old to look at it
But I am not sure the whiners on wings would be up for the likes of that
Thanks Kenny, and appreciate the neck out sticking, but it’s time (long past actually) for the SNP MPs to no longer sit in the HoC.
Scotlands place in London is over.
Time tae send oorselves hame to think again.
Cadogan Enright…
All hail the willfully blind!
“the next election will certainly be a Scottish election based on the mandate for a referendum”
And Boris says No, again…
What then Cadogan, eh? What then?
“Goofball”
Kenny you are few among the many to be brave enough to stick your neck out, however if no one is listening to you in the snp, your voice is silent as ours,
The snp could always withdraw the snp from Westminster, and state that Scotland and its people are making the choice as to whom governs them, now that Brexit is over, and has gone against the will of the people in Scotland, now that the treaty of the union no longer stands in it original form. quite legal for the Scottish people to do this, it’s in the Scotland act, and composition within the treaty of the union, it is also in uk legislation.
But will the snp act on behalf of the people of Scotland, which they promised to do when they were elected?…….mmm
@Cadogan Enright,
Im a former member who has probably done as much as you, so spare me the martyr routine.
You should be on WGD with the other fanatics.
If only ‘our’ law makers actually understood the law, Scots might be able to access their human rights.
Lon Fuller and Substantive Natural Law
https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1130&context=facultyworkingpapers
@Liz says:
30 December, 2020 at 5:15 pm
“And now that the terms of Brexit are known, stricter Covid restrictions on the way.
How long can she stretch this out? We’re at top tier at the moment”
She did mention that with the additional vaccine, then things might start getting better in SPRING. She didn’t say what year…
(PS I’m not against lockdowns or restrictions etc. Too many family / friends with medical issues)
One other wee point for the SNP. Their vote is going to go through the floor in May. I spoke with around 20 family members who (from what I can gather) will, on the SNPs current performance, choose not to vote in May.
Everyone of them a long standing SNP supporter. Now, by that barometer, I would suggest the SNP – and by correlation the independence movement – is in for an almighty bashing in 2021.
Worse – the two men in their early 20’s report all their mates will be doing the same thing. Keep attacking masculinity and this is the kickback.
…..honestly – you’d think it was planned…..
NS needs to go el fucking pronto!
I’d say that NS’s decision to let Brexit play itself out before Indyref 2 is looking increasingly prescient.
I suspect that it will be increasingly easy to make the independence case now. All the bickering on here over the gender madness will be soon forgotten – especially if the NEC starts to function again.
Cream on the cake for me would be Alex Salmond to lead a list party and have the SNP with a majority and the opposition led by Alex in the Scottish parliament. The craic would be 90 . . .
Well Kenny maybe it’s time for the SNP MPs to figure out its not really Scotland’s Parliament… It doesn’t really act in our best interest as it is another nations parliament. From an outsider viewing the goings on that is actually quite apparent. I think that it is time we stopped playing by their rules as we can’t win that way. Hovever after Mr Wisharts MPs response yesterday… Don’t think I am offering advice.
I don’t know sensible Dave BRITEX was written on the back of a fag packet… or the side of a bus take your pick… and it worked. Why should Scotland unique amongst all nations seeking independence answer any of the Qs on your list… ScotEx get it done worked for England why not us?
If you don’t understand something, it displays extremely poor judgement to try and convince the public that they should follow your lead. So unless folk are happy to follow an incompetent narcissist into oblivion, I suggest party members get their collective fingers out, and improve the professionalism of your party.
Popular Constitutionalism and the Rule of Recognition: Whose
Practices Ground U.S. Law?
https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1051&context=faculty_scholarship
@ cadogan enright how very noble of you to dismiss the gender madness on here as an irrelevance to the interests and safety concerns of REAL WOMEN , I am sure that will convince them that their fears have been addressed and they will be totally reassured , I have no doubt that will endear them and encourage them to vote for our saviour of independence saint Nicla and the woke extremists . To arbitrarily ignore and demean the real and obvious concerns of at least 50% of the electorate would obviously entitle you to a senior place within the SNP I do hope you will be rewarded
Vaccine related.
https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1344327049461309440
A relation had the first Pfizer dose on 18th December, heard yesterday that they (and un-vaccinated partner) both now have confirmed covid with symptoms, rather than asymptomatic.
No other country in the world’s representatives behave like this. No other country in the world’s ruling party of independence behaves likes this. No other country required a PRE independence referendum to allow those who are opposed to independence to win (and proposes the same old, same old in a second). Too many independistas are not aware of what other countries have done to gain their independence, but continue to believe the lies and rampant ordure that pass for reasoned debate in this benighted little country of ours. Oh, and very, very few have had the good fortune to have had anything like a Treaty to aid their progress. Here, we spit on it.
I’m not simply hostile to towards the FM because I don’t approve of her politics. From the perspective of relational cognitive law, the SNP now actually poses as much of a threat to Scotland’s culture and democracy, as English Torydum. So who exactly are their advisors?
Law’s Autonomy and Moral Reason
https://www.mdpi.com/2075-471X/8/1/6/pdf
“This paper intends to set out an argument to Legal Idealism and a thesis that holds law and morality as necessarily connected. My focus is on deconstructing the Positivist argument to the Autonomy Thesis and beginning to reconstruct it through the application of morality to law’s autonomous authority.
My aim, ultimately, is to demonstrate how, through the concept of law, practical reason might explain the related (and overlapping) notions of legitimacy, authority, and
the obligation to obey through the necessary connection of law and morality. That is, I intend to demonstrate that morality both survives and remains identifiable (transparently) following the process of metamorphosis into institutionalised practical reasoning.
If this is so, the authority of and obligation to law is simultaneously a form of morally rational obligation. In the response to the Positivist argument that moral values are incommensurate, I will show that this commensurability can be determined ‘artificially’ by a system of institutionalised reasoning (i.e., the law); this is to say, if I can show that the Legal Positivist argument is left incomplete without some explanation of moral values underpinning it, I need not to show that a specific, defensible moral truth or principle is required, but that an artificial weighting of abstract moral principles is sufficient”
Dan: “both now have confirmed covid with symptoms“
As I understand it, that’s to be expected as a possibility but the vaccine should drastically minimise symptoms and the need for critical care.
“It’s time therefore that SNP parliamentary tactics changed and parliamentarianism ended”
This comes far too little far too late. The time to change parliamentary tactics was 2015. That is what the first SNP MP majority was sent to Westminter for, to change tack. Today such strategy just sounds as vacuous and underwhelming as the empty promises of Devo Max or federalism the minions wheeled by the british state parrot like a broken record every time the Yes vote jumps up.
You can only truly judge the actions of a political party and their trajectory retrospectively. Looking back 5 years, I do not think anybody can ignore that Sturgeon’s SNP strategy of pretending to protect Scotland’s interests by insisting in playing nothing but the losers’ game has led us backwards in autonomy, rights, democracy, sovereignty and powers. This means to the average voter like me that the last 5 years of sending a majority of SNP MPs to Westminster have been a complete waste of time.
As usual, when you reach the end of the year you tend to evaluate the achievements to see if these are more or less than the defeats. When I compare the list of defeats Sturgeon’s SNP MPs have inflicted on Scotland (willingly or unwillingly) with their achievements for Scotland, I see an enormous unbalance towards defeats. In fact I cannot recall a single meaningful achievement the SNP MPs under Sturgeon, bar the fabulous defeat of Johnson by the no less fabulous Ms Cherry. But this success belongs to Ms Cherry, not Sturgeon. Even returning to Westminster the power to revoke A50 was not something Scotland could ever get benefit of. It was to benefit England.
Traditional thought states that a majority of SNP MPs is a mandate to end the union. Yet, during the last 5 years a majority of SNP has only served to preserve that union and to reinforce the grip of England over Scotland.
What exactly did the SNP MPs do meaningfully as a collective to advance Scotland’s autonomy or independence? Nothing
to advance our rights? Nothing
to protect our sovereignty? Nothing
to protect our status as an equal partner in a voluntary union? Nothing
to protect and enforce our democracy and democratic will? Nothing
to protect our claim of right? Nothing
to protect our assets? Nothing
To ensure Holyrood holds the powers to hold, without delay and interference in line with the UN charter, our right to self determination? Nothing
Words, platitudes, lip service and faux outrage we have heard enough to go to the moon and back, but actions? we have seen none.
The only thing that our 59 Scottish MPs have been doing for the last 5 years is to waste our time by preserving a union that should have ended in 2015 and legitimising the abuse of Scotland by England MPs empowered by that Parliament. That is what playing the losers’ game leads to: nowhere.
How any SNP MP can today after walking like sheep into that England parliament and voting for no deal brexit look at the children in their constituencies in the eye, after allowing England MPs to rob their future and that of their country, is something I will never understand nor forgive.
Any extra day that the SNP MPs sits in that England parliament and help to legitimise the abuse of Scotland by England MPs is another day that Scotland’s sovereignty is betrayed and sold for England’s gold.
It was great to see Mr Hendry’s walking with that maze, and showing that at least one SNP MP still has a pulse. But it is too little too late. That should have been done the minute a vote to pass A50 was announced without the consent of Scotland.
This is 4 years too late at a time when what is needed is not Hollywood like performances or nice speeches but rather meaningful action, like for our MPs to stop the legitimacy of Westminster to act as “the UK” parliament when it is acting as England’s parliament for the exclusive benefit of England.
After failing for 5 years to deliver what they were elected to deliver and after today, when in defiance of Scotland’s expressed democratic will and reneging on the mandate to stop brexit they were elected in December 2019, the SNP MPs acted as the obedient puppets of the British state by handing over to them Scotland’s consent to brexit through the back door voting for no deal brexit, is there any reason left for voters like me to continue wasting our vote in the SNP?
For me this was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I honestly cannot describe with words how embarrassed, disgusted I feel after watching today how the SNP MPs sold Scotland and overruled its expressed democratic will by handing over our brexit consent to England.
Looking beyond this is going to be as difficult for me as looking pass the conspiracy against Mr Salmond. In other words, impossible. As of today, I have no hope left in the SNP, no trust and no desire to vote for them ever again.
Many suicides of farmers and fishermen will be caused by those Tory MPs and Labour MPs who betrayed them.
Bought and sold for a cozy seat in the House of Lords.
@James Che
I did some research on this the other day. According to ScotGov, that 60% is only for UK. Exports that go via English ports are counted as Scottish exports (because it’s obvious from the paperwork the exporters complete) and that isn’t part of the 60% intra-UK trade
Its harder to track Scottish goods that are sold to an English or Welsh company and then re-exported, but this isn’t considered to be high value. Handy FAQ from ScotGov here:
https://www.gov.scot/publications/about-export-statistics-Scotland/pages/export-statistics-scotland-faqs/#:~:text=Are%20Scottish%20goods%20which%20are,which%20they%20leave%20the%20UK.
Now, the answer to this might be that the UK has just signed a trade deal with the EU and so will be obliged to trade with us. But there will be an interregnum where we won’t be in the UK or EFTA. All that needs to be done is that Yes can state what will happen to trade during that time, or how we will manage it in practice. This is a problem that didn’t exist for the first indyref
You would hope ScotGov would have worked on all of this. I’m not convinced Sturgeon has bothered doing the prep
@Mia 7.12
I concur absolutely with everything you have written. All the SNP MPs carried out their instructions and voted against. Every single one. Can’t say more. Too painful.
If only the SNP’s approach to politics didn’t conflict with practical morals and cognitive reason, as they might actually be more able to defend Scotland from expansionist English Torydum.
Editorial: Beyond Embodied Cognition: Intentionality, Affordance, and Environmental Adaptation
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6308201/
Short money – according to Wikipedia, those who don’t take the oath of allegiance get the same amount as those parties who receive short money as the payment is to cover expenses of staff etc.
So the SNP’s funding would be unaffected if they “did a Sinn Fein”.
@ Hatuey at 6:51 pm
Aye, they were just unlucky to have contracted it so soon after the first jab. Both are in their low 30s so hopefully will get through it ok.
I wonder if now having actual covid between the two Pfizer vaccination jabs is in anyway an issue.
If only the SNP were competent in constitutional law, rather than knee-polishing. 🙁
Power-Conferring Laws and the Rule of Recognition
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3116865
For years I was mocked for reminding SNP loyalists on here( now ‘the departed’ to WGD) that 2015 when the SNP had 50% of the popular vote and all the Scottish MPs’ bar three that then was the time to dissolve the Union. Apparently, the basis for dissolution i.e. of the majority of seats, was no longer the mandate for pushing to the next stage of our disentangling from England. I was also told that the SNP had not put Independence in its campaign manifesto.
When AS led the sing song of ‘Ode to Joy’, I had had enough. The Orwellian nightmare of assimilation had begun; Mairi Black being ‘besties’ with Rees Mogg sealed it.
The SNP have been bought and sold on the Devo Lie. ‘Lord ‘ George Robertson stated that Devo would kill Indy ‘stone dead’ and remember Enoch Powell noted that ‘power devolved was power retained’.
Yet McCaskill and other ‘dissidents’ in the SNP, at this late stage, are still trying to sell the constitutional equivalent
of the Brooklyn Bridge to us…that more wasted consultations and a ‘plebiscite’ election will unravel what they..the SNP have wilfully allowed ..over 5 x years…the complete non assertion of our Sovereignty at Westminster to be sidelined down the cul de sac of Holyrood?…a talking shop that has the constitutional power of the auld Glasgow City Corporation?
By abject and downright cowardice in the face of the enemy, the SNP have forfeited our Sovereign status by retreating to a last stand that will have the same result as Custer’s did…. a complete annihilation of our identity. The result of this capitulation of 1707 as a basis of Union is that we will become…whatever the May election produces, a Caledonian version of Catalonia…a minor regional talking shop squeaking about its non existent ‘rights’. Just before being gelded by the Tories once and for all.
Too late then to appeal to Europe, the UN or the World..they’ll be looking the other way in embarrassment at Scotland the Slave.
Mia says:
30 December, 2020 at 7:12 pm
Yes, 100%. Now left with no hope that there will ever be independence in my lifetime and if I’m not going to see it, there is absolutely no point in fighting for it or voting for the SNP. Totally disenfranchised now.
@Mia, 7.12pm
The betrayal comprehensively described – thank you
The lambs who led their country to the slaughter…
So did Kenny vote or abstain?
Alas there are too many like Pete Wishart, Anne McLaughlin etc who enjoy their WM cash & lifestyle too much.
@ Wee Chid.
Get where your coming from. Feel the same, but in the cold light of day, I’d say, almost but not quite.
Take care of yourself. We can only do, what we can only do.
Kenny, there is absolutely no point whatsoever in wasting time trying to disrupt Westminster. That is simply to accept that WM is legitimate but that most members are not playing fairly. WM is no longer legitimate as far as Scottish interests are concerned. Its majority is never going to co-operate with us. Ignore the place! Have no truck with any of it! Get out while you all can still claim some self-respect – or recover the self-respect that so many of your colleagues appear to have lost.
SNP MPs should never even have turned up in HoC today. Brexit was an English policy, finally supported by both Tory and Labour. Everyone knew what the stance of the Scottish electorate and the SNP had been for years. What opponents might or might not have said afterwards would be of very little consequence in the longer run. (They are already saying that voting against the deal offered was in effect voting for no deal (i.e., WTO terms). Absence, without a ‘grandstanding’ exit, would have underlined that Westminster was a complete irrelevance to Scottish interests and strengthened the fundamental reason for independence. It would also have hit the headlines and aided such momentum towards independence as there is (but dwindling rapidly through SNP inertia and subservience to the mirage of Westminster’s Section 30 ).
As far as I can make out, they all voted against it, including Kenny MacAskill and Joanna Cherry:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2020/dec/30/how-did-your-mp-vote-on-the-brexit-deal-bill
I posed the question on the previous thread:
Will the Brexit vote not reveal, depending on how they vote (abstain/no), which SNP MPs are acting on behalf of Scotland and which are acting against Scotland?
So it seems they are ALL acting against Scotland?
@ Saffron Robe, re all acting against Scotland.
Had some of the SNP MP’s done an Abstain, and/or a walk out, then we would have identified them.
Because all of them have stuck to the ‘vote against’ route, we don’t know. And they have not ‘rebelled’ enough (in any way actually) so as to prompt a crisis/vonc in St Niclas leadership.
Tactically it is very similar to the recent JL vote re female doctors for rape victims. They pulled it and stuck together so no one could identify them… all these ‘conviction politicians’. Aye right.
Only way I see, of rising above it, is look at what needs done, and if it is not getting done, then that’s no longer good enough. Times up.
Yes, I agree with your point Daisy as it is similar to the JL vote: “They pulled it and stuck together so no one could identify them.”
Thick as thieves the lot of them!
Getting rid of Blackford as SNP leader in Westminster would be a start. The guy is a preposterous bore and easily treated as a bumpkin by the rest of parliament
Next, as their presence makes not one jot of difference, why attend? The SNP should only take their seats where their votes make a difference; which is seldom.
Sinn Fein has the right idea in that regard; the SNP are nothing more than a laughable irrelevance at Westminster.