Standing on the shoulders of pygmies
There is no good position for the opposition parties in the House Of Commons to take on the impending Brexit deal vote this coming week.
It’s a terrible deal, and voting for it – as Labour will do – makes you look like an idiot, especially when it completely fails the “six tests” you swore never to vote for it without. On the other hand, time is absolutely up and were it to be somehow defeated the only alternative left to the deal would be a no-deal exit, which is the only thing worse.
Which makes this look simply pathetic.
Because the SNP voting against the deal is the exact opposite of “principled”. It’s the most cynical, cowardly sort of grandstanding virtue-signalling imaginable. They’re doing it precisely because their votes don’t matter. They know that the deal would be guaranteed to pass on Tory votes alone, let alone with Labour supporting it too, so they can make a big show of voting against it without fear of consequences.
And if you’re not sure about that, take a moment and honestly ponder to yourself if the SNP would be voting against the deal if their votes DID matter.
Imagine they held the balance of power. Imagine that the Parliamentary arithmetic was something like it was before last year’s election, and so the way the SNP voted would determine whether the UK left the EU with a bad deal, or with no deal at all.
Look into your hearts, readers, and honestly tell us that a single one of you believes the SNP would have the courage to vote with their “principles”, condemn the UK and Scotland alike to the ruinous catastrophe of no-deal, and face up to the media storm on both sides of the border that would assuredly result.
Of course they wouldn’t. A little over a year ago they didn’t even have the bottle to vote for the general election that they’d just spent weeks on end loudly demanding. They abstained (behind a pitiful fig-leaf of a three-day disagreement over the date) and let others take the responsibility for what unfolded, exactly as they’ll be doing next week by NOT abstaining.
(What readers may not recall, incidentally, is that they did the same in 2017.)
This site by and large loathes abstaining. We’ve criticised Labour at length for it, quite properly in the circumstances involved, and the SNP for doing it over the elections. There are very few occasions when it’s justifiable for an MP to refuse to express a view either way, but this is one of them.
The government is obviously obliged to vote for its own policy. Labour’s position is at least honourably defensible as being in the interests of the country, the least worst of two awful options. And there’s no escaping the fact that the country in question clearly voted for Brexit, not just in the referendum but also in that election last year.
Now, the SNP represent Scotland, not the UK, and the people of Scotland have voted overwhelmingly and repeatedly to remain. But because of the SNP’s utter failure to take a single step towards independence in the last four and a half years, Scotland is still in the UK, and that means that a no-deal exit would be every bit as disastrous for Scotland as it would for England, Wales and Northern Ireland (if not more). Remaining is no longer on the table. It is not an option. It’s this deal or no deal.
So there is no way on Earth that the SNP would or should have been voting against this eleventh-hour deal if doing so carried any risk of defeating it and bringing about a no-deal Brexit by default. But that means their “principles” are a shameful lie, because their vote will have absolutely nothing to do with principles and is in fact an empty gesture that’s everything to do with cheap and grubby politicking.
Ironically, by acting in such a dishonest, self-serving manner they’ll be demonstrating that they truly belong at Westminster. And for those of us who once believed there was something fundamentally different about them – who genuinely thought they’d gone to London to settle up, not settle down – the reality is heartbreaking.
We wish we could end with the famous Orwell quote from Animal Farm about not being able to tell the difference between the pigs and the men. But the truth is that it’s worse than that. On this occasion the SNP have ceded the moral high ground to Labour, and that’s a thing we hoped never to live to see.
Said more or less that two days ago on Twitter. Suggesting that if they did not abstain it should be a resignation issue for Sturgeon. As leaving the EU is a settled matter, what the SNP are voting for is a no deal exit, simple as that. Disgusting , simply disgusting
Far better if they just walked out altogether – and didn’t go back.
There are very few occasions when it’s justifiable for an MP to refuse to express a view either way, but this is one of them.
not one of them?
has this website turned into Guido Fawkes?
Won’t a no vote look good to our friends in the EU?
Scotland has been denied any participation in the Brexit negotiations, and of course, Scotland voted to remain.
So for me, the honourable course of action is to take no part in the Brexit vote, call it abstain if you choose, and withdraw further participation in the Westminster parliament. Walk out.
I am not surprised by this, what amazes me is how they can remain upright without a spine.
Anyone with any self respect would not have taken the treatment dished out to them week in, week out.
When they were being heckled they should have remained standing and forced the speaker to take action, also rebuffed every lie that came out of their mouths, even using “I spy strangers” to cause some annoyance,calling the Buffon out every time he used Nationalist party.
It makes my blood boil to watch the humiliation dished out regularly, without any reply from our MPs.
Come back and tell them what a waste of time it is attending a primary school like parliament.
When are they going to get on with “winning the positive case for independence”?
After Covid? After the economic impact of Covid? After Brexit? After the economic impact of Brexit?
Those of us who want independence first and foremost have nowhere else to go. And these bstrds know it.
The SNP have been assimilated and corrupted by Westminster. All the game-playing (like the brexit votes) the empty gestures, the posturing, all for NOTHING. In a few days time, Scotland will be forcibly dragged out of the EU, in defiance of Scotland’s constitutional rights, international law and the treaty of union. Its people will have their right to work, travel and retire in 27 nations, and their EU citizenship removed wholly against their wishes.
The SNP who were elected via several elections on multiple mandates to prevent this, and proceed to independence have done nothing. Oh, of course, they grandstand and pontificate, they whine and they whine about how so unfair it all is, but actually stand up for Scotland?? Nah. They have careers, don’t you know, and well, independence can simply wait another five or more years, from their perspective.
Seriously, it does need asked, what are the SNP trying to achieve? They are sitting back watching, as Scotland is dragged down by a rabid racist English Tory government. They will never be forgiven. Careerist cowards, with not a backbone among them.
Stuart, your penultimate paragraph says it all for me.
I have been thinking for a while that there is little difference between the SNP now, and the Labour party, and yes it is heartbreaking. I still believe that Alex Salmond was a principled politician and because of him I thought the SNP M(S)Ps were in general the same. How my eyes have been opened this year. How I wish it was otherwise.
Hold on….
Is this the same SNP that said “we will not allow Scotland to be dragged out the EU against our will”?
Come on then, SNP… you said you wouldn’t allow this to happen.
Where’s the rabbit from the hat?
Or were you just lying all the time, and stringing us along to get our vote?
Incompetent, liars, or incompetent liars? Which?
“has this website turned into Guido Fawkes?”
Have you turned into a stupid cunt, or were you always one?
Pigs ‘traiters’ immediately comes to mind.
“Won’t a no vote look good to our friends in the EU?”
What, the ones who’ve busted a gut to agree this deal?
…* the (current) SNP
Vellofello at 1028pm,
I agree. Their is no popint in them being in Westminster. They should walk out, permanently, then proceed to holding either an indy referendum, or a vote via the election in May 2021. Enough is enough, they should either put up or shut up.
“And if you’re not sure about that, take a moment and honestly ponder to yourself if the SNP would be voting against the deal if their votes DID matter.”
And that will be their epitaph.
Independence died on the 18th September 2014, everything since has been twitching of a corpse.
root and branch reform are needed, reform that’s not going to come if they get reelected in May.
5 years in the opposition minimum is needed for a new leadership with vigor to arise.
George Welsh says:
27 December, 2020 at 10:25 pm
Won’t a no vote look good to our friends in the EU?
Not really. It’s the EU’s deal, too.
Come on Rev.
There’s no way the SNP can vote for this deal and you know it.
The very foundation of this site was the systematic way you broke down the Unionist press. How would they react to the SNP voting for the deal?
The Eu are not about to stand up for Scotland realistically.
Not if they have just achieved fishing in our waters for a few years into the future, if we went independent the Eu would have to start negotiations all over again, their quite happy at the moment.
The Snp have wasted four and a half years of their time and our time being at Westminster trying to stop Brexit ever since 2016 .
If only they’d put some of that wasted time and energy and their “ principles “ into regaining our Independence .
When the vote passes at Westminster and no doubt it will do , I want the Snp to get up and walk out of Westminster and never go back and leave England to get on with their Brexit .
I also see that the Scottish Parliament is being recalled on Wednesday afternoon , This is from the business bulletin ,
“ Trade and co-operation agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union
The Presiding Officer wishes to announce that a meeting of the Parliament will be convened on Wednesday 30 December 2020 at 2.00 pm to consider a trade and co-operation agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union. “
No doubt It’ll be more talking and no bloody action again from Nicola Sturgeon .
Papko @10:42
On the basis of the performance of the current crop of MPs/MSPs, and not forgetting our excuse of a FM, I think the stables need cleared out sooner rather than later. The only way to do so is to ensure a reduced number of them spend a term on the opposition benches and do a bit of concerted blood letting and contemplation.
We’re kidding ourselves to think that the SNP in its current guise will take us any closer to Indy than we were on the 19th of September 2014.
The SNP as it stands will concern itself with the gender woo-woo and the hate speech control freakery and will wring its hands over Brexit while the likes of Blackford and Wishart take home their 75k + expenses and tell us all if we’re not with them, we’re against them.
I’m not buying their bulllshit any more, and if I have to wait a few more years to get my Scottish Passport, so be it. Better that, than to keep treading water with the Westminster bench warmers and Holyrood seat plugs we currently have.
🙂
To be honest I’m a bit sick of Scotland being treated by the SNP as a after thought or just simply not important or should I say by there useless leader, she spent years running down to London for a people vote and when it look like a peoples vote might happen the Messiah decided to give Boris Johnston the election which has brought Scotland’s demise. Nearly 6yrs of Nicola Sturgeon and I can’t see any where where in which Scotland’s benefited from her leadership and today we got a glimpse of what will happen next year after the SNP win another 5yrs in power no Indyref2,written in the National by the Scottish Government’s former top spin doctor. Another 5yrs of Nicola Sturgeon as leader of Scotland fills me with despair knowing that she has no idea of what she intends to do wither its education or Independence and all during this time all well hear is Independence but nothing being actually done to start a referendum never mind achieving Independence.
Why don’t you all walk out for good, Ian B? Our MPs have no material effect on Westminster policy or decisions; questions to PM and Ministers are never answered; you have already been there long enough for the Scottish electorate to witness how much you are bullied and jeered at by the tories and unsupported by Labour. If you must, you could leave a token couple of MPs to pick up “short” money and gather necessary intelligence on the enemy, but you should certainly withdraw from all participation in the farcical and pointless charade that passes for intelligent debate in the Commons.
Blackford was ranting away on the BBC News, then he got totally fucked when asked if the SNP’s decision would essentially be a vote for No Deal. Then he took off on his usual high speed rant as he tries to get all his points in. Fuck’s sake I’d rather listen to the fucking Nolans on repeat (apologies to any fans).
Although it is extremely unlikely, what if there was a mass rebellion in the vote, and the deal was NOT passed? This being 2020 anything is possible.
I always hoped that the SNP would prove to be different from the other parties and that this would carry over into an independent Scotland. The last few years they have shown to be no different than the clowns that had found comfortable careers in Scottish Labour and for some in the Conservative party. Not good for politics and gives little confidence that an indy Scotland would be any different than we currently have just with the trough moved to Edinburgh and focused on the central belt rather than the South East.
Can’t argue with that analysis. There is no upstanding principle in voting against, only cheap spin hoping to grab secondary headlines. They should’ve grasped the rose at the time and voted for May’s deal in exchange for the only thing that matters. I’d bet there’s a few kicking themselves in retrospect. Abstaining generally feels like a complete cop-out. Perhaps this is the case study exception that proves the rule.
mountainshadow
No not vote for it, but they could abstain. Scotland has been ignored throughout the negotiations -abstention on the vote wuld be an acceptable protest.
“There’s no way the SNP can vote for this deal and you know it”
Jesus Christ, did you read the article AT ALL?
Doug Bryce 10.23pm
Beat it ya Yoon troll, have a happy new year when it comes
Very good article Stuart. The Empress explains that her new clothes are a matter of principle!
Are you really expecting the party who accepted the Smith Commission (redacted version) to show some initiative and fight ?
I coiuld understand it if we were politicking for a referendum, but even that is not on offer, and doesn’t seem likely to be for Lord knows how long ,if ever.
Bottom line. Its window dressing for the mug voters isnt it?
Is this part of Sturgeon’s game plan for independence?
Will Scotland’s Remainers love this show of defiance against Brexit and thus be more likely to follow Sturgeon and thus more likely to vote YES to Scottish independence?
If this strategy helps us gain independence, I’m all for it.
Blackford is a pap. They shouldn’t be at Westminster- none of them. If you play the Nolan first single backwards you hear them singing Wishart and Blackford are phoneys, honestly, try it.
If the SNP’s votes at Westminster don’t matter, then you have to think how you can use them for the wider cause.
“Labour’s position is at least honourably defensible as being in the interests of the country, the least ”
Oh dear – stopped reading there. In the interests of the Tory party. The country – England – and I am over the moon there is one party that can see this stinking political union for what it is.
Vote against this as Scotland did. Thankyou SNP.
What a shambles and what a sorry pass we have come to when the SNP MPs have to vote on the ludicrous Brexit deal, or no deal at all, or abstain. There are no other options. Much as it pains me the “deal” negotiated by the Tories just about beats the adverse effects of no deal. To abstain means our MPs don’t care what is best for our people in this situation – just simply what is better for them which just about sums up the attitude of the majority of the current crop of SNP MPs. They are more concerned with toeing the party line than doing the right thing.
We need rid of this stranglehold that the Sturgeon cabal have over the SNP. Face up to it, there will never be Independence with the Murrells in charge. That would be the equivalent of them shooting themselves in the financial foot. Their motivation is not the greater good of Scotland, it is the greater good of themselves. Nobody in the upper echelons of the SNP have so far put their head over the parapet to call out these charlatans and no alternative independence parties look likely to mount a challenge. If the dam does not break soon then, as I have said many times on here, the only way is to starve them out in cash terms. Stop paying members subs or donations and do not assist with any fund raising. If there is no cash to pay their fat cat salaries you will not see the Murrells and their entourage for dust.
Gregory
“Will Scotland’s Remainers love this show of defiance against Brexit ”
The fellow Remainers I’ve spoken at work have, to a man, given up the fight since the deal was done and now regard anything the SNP does as posturing.
I can understand why they would vote against it – as if it is as crap as we think then they cannot complain afterwards that this bit is wrong or that bit isn’t suitable – it will simply be pointed out time and time again that they endorsed it.
The fact that Johnson was the one who put a time limit on it seems to have been lost. He’s the one holding the gun to our heads. Doesn’t mean we should help him operate the trigger.
robertknight
And do they like the posturing? Hopefully, they do!
How nice if each and every SNP MP disrupted the vote until
Such times as they are physically ejected call Bojo!s
deal a crime against Scotland.
One can dream!
Just posted my contribution of 11.40 above on WGD. Awaiting the screams of indignation.
Why the SNP are voting against the Brexit deal.
They have 3 options For, Abstain, Against
For is ruled out because it calls into question their previous votes and highlights what a truly awful strategy NS has Followed. The SNP voted Against far better deals than the one currently on the table. Voting For a far worse deal is an utter failure.
Abstain could only be justified In the context of stating ‘Scotland’s votes don’t matter, this is an England only bill so we won’t vote in it’. But, that would have to be followed up, you’ve stated that democracy doesn’t work, you can’t then meekly turn up the next day. This would be the start of the fight for independence and the SNP aren’t up for it, nor would the SNP withdraw from WM and give up the short money (could they even afford to). No way was NS taking the fight to them.
So that inky leaves voting Against, so that’s what they are doing
Beaker says: 27 December at 11:08 pm
“Although it is extremely unlikely, what if there was a mass rebellion in the vote, and the deal was NOT passed? This being 2020 anything is possible.”
That crossed my mind when I saw the tweet earlier. They do say never trust a Tory!
No Deal in the bag assisted by the SNP would just about sum up the tactical display we’ve witnessed from them over the past several years.
At least such an event might finally initiate a change of leadership and direction.
The SNP should have been more abstentionist at Westminster throughout it’s history I think (when the parliament isn’t hung and when it’s votes don’t count, which is pretty much always apart from a couple of recent exceptions).
Scottish MPs don’t matter at Westminster. Why even try? It would be tactically smarter to have either not taken up our seats or just generally whipped up more of a hysteria about how virtually every piece of legislation is passed to satisfy southern English interests. Why pretend any different?
The only purpose our MPs have at Westminster is to kick up a fuss and tailor the communication towards a domestic audiences. The party of Scottish Independence should aim to make people furious about how undemocratic our participation in the Union is, get Scots angry. Our trying to appear diplomatic gets us nowhere
Emmmm.
What a lot of ground covered when Emmmm. now covers it.
Agree whole broken heartedly with the contents of the article. So sad.
If ever there was a time for definitive action, as apposed to trying to make a corrupt, biased system work, it would be now. It has to be now.
All the SNP/NEC ‘rebel’ MP’s – it is now or never. Or, make no mistake, you can fuck off too.
Step out of Westminster, make it international news, by-pass the BBC (fuck’em and continue to fuck’em, over and over, and never, ever apologise for it – if ever challenged, adopt the ‘daft laddie policy’ – be nice to turn the tables on them for once).
As much as I admire and respect JC/QC and Dr Philipa Whitford – it’s about country, not party – and the party is fucked! Absolutely riddled!
A lack of integrity on its core function AND a lack of urgency by its decent core.
The People of Scotland are Sovereign – As long as that can be democratically and legally demonstrated.
SNP are now the biggest block to that. Utter tractors.
Any member of the SNP advocating that we should, ‘negotiate’ this. Has got to answer the question when is enough, where is enough, how long is enough… and why… you have a mandate/s. Use it/them.
There will never, ever! be more definitive circumstances that highlight the condition of being ‘British’ means England First – NEVER. And I say this in full knowledge of the sacrifice Scotland’s soldiers had to make EVERY SINGLE TIME there is a conflict..
The thing that is different this time, is, everything… it is not a war or conflict. It is a bunch of seriously rich bastards who do not want to pay tax, and need the Cash Cow That Is Scotland to fund the whole exercise.
Stronger For Scotland… Stronger For Scotland… Stronger For Scotland…
Just out of devilment, can anyone looking at NS’s statement above, go to their nearest ‘gradualist/appeaser’ and ask them, how does her statement make them feel?
Stoic?
Resolved?
Bloshie?
Gallas?
Confident?
None of the above?
The opposite of all of the above?
Then give her marks as a leader. At Scotland’s Darkest hour.
@ Elmac re ‘Stop paying members subs or donations and do not assist with any fund raising. If there is no cash to pay their fat cat salaries you will not see the Murrells and their entourage for dust.’
Sadly, I don’t think your line of thinking will work. The credit will be extended fro ever, as long as in the interests of the Union… and a terrible ‘no can do’ the minute the SNP ask for a 1/2 million pound loan to fund and Indy Ref 2 campaign.
That’s how tactically stupid they are.
Sturgeon us a conundrum.
She has no ideas.
She has no direction.
She is meant to be a leader, of what? I don’t know.
The Indy/YES movement is just drifting, rudderless, aimless.
I am at a total loss as to what she fuckin wants out of us, or even what the fuck does she want out of life.
As I say,,, she’s a total conundrum.
Which is the LAST thing we need at this moment in Scotland’s history.
I think the SNP should have voted No to every vote that takes us out of Europe.
From Day 1 after the EU REF. they should have voted against any and every bill that led us further down the path to exiting the EU.
Futile – pf course but to do otherwise was a betrayal of the Scots.
So I guess with this in mind, I think they are voting the right way on this occasion!
Well that was fun. There shall be no criticism of our beloved leader on WGD comments without stirring a hornets nest of abuse it seems. So much for polite reasoned argument. Still, it was an experience, and I will probably stir them up again before too long just for the hell of it.
There are none so blind… seemed to get them going.
It’s a foreign Parliament in a foreign country. The sleeveen fuckers can vote how thy like, as far as I’m concerned.
What they say or do has long since been a total irrelevance in the practical world, anyway.
Westminster lost all democratic credibility the minute Article 50 was passed into law, as it re-interprets the British constitution in a manner than denies Scotland has a constitutional identity. That’s a form of legal patricide, as the child (the British state) is legally killing off one of the parents (Scotland). If the SNP were serious about empowering Scotland, they would look outside the legal confines of English/British constitutional culture. Parliamentary sovereignty is a legal principle that is alien to Scots law, and can not be used legally to separate Scots further from international law.
Sorry, I can’t find an open-access version of this on research portals that are still open to me. I’m confident it that it would prove instructive though, as to the legal perils faced by Scotland in Brexitania.
National identity between democracy and autocracy: a comparative analysis of 24 countries
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/european-political-science-review/article/abs/national-identity-between-democracy-and-autocracy-a-comparative-analysis-of-24-countries/B6175FCCB26612EE3F101C28F3AA239A
Re Daisy Walker @ 12.49am
I understand what you are saying but there must have already been a dramatic fall in membership and most of the effect of this on income will have kicked in after the date of their most recent financial statements. Those were not rosy, particularly as they had purloined a very substantial amount of ring fenced funds to fight the next Indy campaign. If subs, donations etc. slide further they will need loan funding to meet their everyday outgoings, let alone have enough to cough up what they owe the fighting fund for Indy if they ever grow a pair and call it. No bank manager worth his salt would approve facilities without a positive business plan which they will not be able to produce. In other words there would have to be a severe cut in expenditure. Obviously there will be some cuts than can be made but I would suggest the Murrells will need a basic staff who will only work if they are paid and ultimately the salaries of NS and PM will be unsustainable. If this proves to be the case they will not be sustained by loyalty to the cause and will be off like Roadrunner.
I appreciate all of the above will take time and the effect on the SNP will be dramatic but there is no prospect of independence until control is wrested form the Murrells. The best outcome would be for the Murrells to see the writing on the wall and go quickly. Next best would be for senior SNP politicians to rebel against the cabal and, god forbid, if it were to drag out, then we need to see a new independence party rise from the ashes. The latter is really unthinkable as the SNP is the only vehicle for independence in the short time and we have very little time left to escape what the buffoon has planned for us.
When the Europeans and Americans decided to decolonise after the war, many were naturally worried that they’d lose access to resources and markets that their economies and living standards at home depended upon. But they needn’t have worried. American planners had it all worked out.
Basically, they believed – and were subsequently proven right to believe – that they could replace direct colonial rule with a system of indirect rule that would be every bit as effective in terms of maintaining the system of exploitation that they relied on.
It would be complicated at times and messy, and require very nuanced responses to specific regional circumstances (rather than a one size fits all approach), but with the right puppet governments doing their bidding there was no reason to worry about the third world denying them the sort of access they had before.
The model described above is essentially the model Scotland has imposed on it now. On the face of it we have democracy but it’s really a neo-colonial model with major limits on what’s actually on offer in elections. It’s critical in systems like this that the controlling power has politicians on the ground that understand what may and may not tolerated or offered to voters in elections.
The second and third world is full of examples of governments that on the face of it are radical and represent the interests of ordinary people, rather than big business or “foreign” interests, but in truth they are playing a crucial part in containing radicalism and effectively blocking the will of the people. And that of course explains why there’s so little “social mobility” in international relations.
The rewards for governments and politicians who are willing to sell their countries and countrymen out like that are naturally huge. The growth of the offshore banking industry – which Britain dominates globally – is inextricably linked and instrumental to this neo-colonial system of indirect manipulation and exploitation.
Scotland has the resources of a medium sized country but the population of a small country. It takes a certain kind of magic to make the population of a naturally rich country so poor, without direct colonial rule.
@ Robert Louis
“Its people will have their right to work, travel and retire in 27 nations, and their EU citizenship removed wholly against their wishes.”
Surely that “wholly” is out of place when a million or so Scots voted to leave?
If you believe that many Scots have changed their minds since Indy1, why are you so confident that no Scots could have changed their minds since the EU Membership referendum? Not every Scot I know has seen the EU as a benign friend over the last few years of negotiations.
In many ways the EU has shafted the UK. By shafting the UK the EU has also shafted Scotland. The UK will be paying off the EU for the next 44 years or so. So will Scotland.
“The Brexit Deal will pass no matter how the SNP votes…”
There’s the latest instalment of absolute defeatism from a thoroughly inept First Minister with no strategic acumen whatsoever.
Never mind the Brexit “deal”, Brexit itself would never have happened if the Scottish Government under Sturgeon’s command had defended Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and democratic rejection of Brexit. Instead of selling us all down the river, they could have disputed Scotland’s Brexit as an act of unlawful colonial subjugation and a breach of the 1707 Treaty of Union, – an international treaty between sovereign nations.
In this way, both Scotland and Northern Ireland could have steered parallel courses towards thwarting Brexit through constitutional backstops backed by the International Community, and both strategies successfully remaining in Europe, while Westminster was left floundering in defeat and frustration, or forced to contemplate breaching International law and becoming a rogue pariah state.
GOAL! For Northern Ireland! But Scotland? Naw. Fked off the pitch with our bootlaces tied together because Sturgeon says Scotland will do absolutely nothing until the final whistle has been blown and the Brexit Deal has been finalised. What a fkg genius.
Sturgeon is hopeless beyond redemption, and sold out Scotland in 2016. Keep saying it long enough, and maybe people will finally begin to listen. Watching Sturgeon in action is like the bad old days, watching Scotland playing dismally do defeat against minnows under the dismally uninspiring “leadership” of a talentless captaincy, but everybody cheers because hey, it’s Scotland, and we’re all just going through the motions too.
The most important message the YES community can send to the SNP is that it’s fkg OUTRAGED and without a profound and drastic change in the SNP hierarchy, and a cohesive strategy adopted for delivering Scottish Independence, (and note I say Independence, not merely a referendum or mandate), then the SNP are a spent force which is unelectable.
Don’t fall for the “urgency” of imminent elections in May, or the whining “who else ye gonnae vote fur?” horseshite. They have had five years to develop a cohesive strategy to secure Scottish Independence but have delivered nothing. Where was the urgency then?
If you follow a leader with no strategic competence, time after time, you’ll be boxed into a corner and out of options. I present you with Nicola Sturgeon’s leadership. QED.
.
Stuart,
Thank you for the excellent analysis of Nicola McWoker’s most recent drivel, proclaimed via the discomforting medium used by the likes of our quarter-Scotsman Donald McTrumpet (that makes me shudder and want to apologise to the world). Making national political announcements by a social medial cesspit: Twitters by Twatters.
Meanwhile, Annie621 beat me to it.
Surely the time has come to publicly and persistently differentiate between the vast majority of ordinary, decent SNP voters and the selfish Sturgeonite McWokeist faction that has temporarily captured Bute House?
So many of my friends haven’t a clue about all of this Gender WooWoo narcissistic infestation of the party.
They just see that the SNP and YES for Indy are high in the polls and assume all is well. Not realising that people are voting AGAINST Labour and Tories, rather than FOR the SNP. That way lies political crevices lethally hidden under the snow for IndyRef2.
Angus & Senga McPublic have more important things to do, like staying alive during Covid and keeping their elderly relatives from being euthanised by Der Todesengel, otherwise known as the telegenic Nicola Television & The Covid Show.
Perhaps internet memes, or Chris Cairn’s thought provoking artwork could bring into common currency that there is…
1). THE REAL SNP
2). THE MCWOKE SNP.
Folk understand what happened to Labour with the Militant Tendency from 1964-1991 with utter Marxists such as Peter Taaffe and the story The Guardian broke in 1975 of “Trot conspirators inside the Labour Party.”
Whilst the Tories have been captured by the right wing European Research Group (ERG) with fuckwits such as Corporal Iain Duncan-Smith, Mark non-Francois, Dr Liam (Where’ Werritty) Fox, Christopher Chump-Chope, Andrew Grenfell-Thickos Bridgen, Jacob Plagiarise-Mogg plus sundry other Tory swivel-eyed loons.
Political parties being captured by fifth column entryist parasites such as the SNP’s current infestation since the Roman Empire. All of this is nothing new.
The big issue here is that the State BBC etc., is protecting Nicola as their useful idiot. Trouble is, Nicola is neither useful nor intellectually challenged. She is a dangerous, manipulative, calculating, narcissistic destroyer of Scottish Independence and its about time this was properly made public.
Stuart, depressing though these must be to write, more of this is the key to curing our current woes…
http://www.wingsoverscotland.com/the-betrayer/
P.S. Cameron, THESE are the links that are worthwhile referencing. If only you were self-aware enough to realise that you DO have the ability to link articles that are ON-TOPIC and of help to Scottish Independence then the flow of each thread would be far less confused and distracted..
Though thank you for at least posting less that your regular 25% to 30% of BTL content that became so difficult for those here who do take the time and effort to read BTL comments. That last bit was genuine appreciation. Cameron, sometimes the old adage: “Less is more” holds true.
The diffrences between how NI turned out and how Scotland turned out could not be more stark.
NI remains in the single market, remains I’m the customs union, retains free movement, continued to a ife by EU standards, has a border now with the UK down the Irish Sea,
And Scotland, by comparison, despite voting against, out on its arse facing a constitutional onslaught.
And the difference?
Well in NI case the UK International was stopped from breaching am international treaty called the GFA.
And in Scotland Sturgeon trashed the 1707 treaty disregarding it completely.
Willia at 0641am,
Totally agree. It is shameful that the SNP have allowed these events to unfold. N.Ireland got what it voted for, Gibraltar got what it voted for, Wales and England got what they voted for, but Scotland??? Nah, Scotland can shut the f*** up, and do what ENGLAND demands.
But what makes me saddest of all, is this. Hogmanay 2020 will mark the point at which we know for sure that those the Scots trusted to protect our EU membmership, the SNP, have not done so. Spineless careerists one and all.
The union is over, so why are they still in Westminster??
On 1st January 2021, Scots will be forcibly stripped of their EU citizenship, and their right to live work and retire in 27 nations removed, wholly against their wishes, because ENGLAND demands it. It is a disgrace, but more to the point, it has been allowed to happen under a supposedly pro-independence SNP Scottish government.
Slow handclap for Nicola Sturgeon, fiddling while Scotland is trashed. The SNP, the do-nothing party.
She has 3 days to DO something……I know -it’s extremely unlikely but 3 days.
The very fact that there are SNP MPs still sitting in the foreign parliament that is Westminster should tell us all we need to know about the SNP.
They’ve more than settled down and personally I believe they have betrayed Scotland more than Labour or Tory.
For the record unless the election next year is to be a plebiscitary I shall be abstaining on the constituency vote.
I think you were being generous to the SNP by saying 4 1/2 years. I reckon its been #6wastedyears under the Murrells. I can’t find 1 single plus point for her leadership. Its been a downward spiral from the 1st day in charge !!
Gregory Beekman says: 27 December, 2020 at 11:30 pm
Firstly, there is path to independence or at least in the public domain. Talk to any no voter about the arguments to get independence like for instance the notion of Scottish sovereignty and they’ll laugh in your face saying if it could be done that way why isn’t the SNP doing it?
Secondly, in the months to come, Westminster will be plucking furiously at the Magic Money Tree and pumping money into Scotland via their Queen Elizabeth House HQ to undermine the indpendence argument. When that happens, the lead for indy in the polls will slowly erode.
The Rev has made an opinion about the SNP’s position on the vote. He left out a few details which makes the whole thing even more depressing.
As seen in hindsight, the SNP has been nothing but bluff, bluster and empty rhetoric throughout the whole Brexit affair. They have boxed themselves into a corner and they had no alternative to vote against it.
The whole affair has shown the SNP to be nothing but paper tigers and that is why this strategy, if you can call it that, to show to the Scottish public the futility of Scotland being involved in the Westminster system to it’s logical conclusion will not work. The simple reason is that the SNP doesn’t have an alternative.
Another charade under the Murrell of appearing to stand up for Scotland.They should either abstain or do a walk out, this time for good.
After 1st January Tories come for Scotlands parliament and SNP have no apparent plan.
http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/judicial-review-scotland-acts-of-union-united-kingdom-independence
A generally good article pointing out the Review of Judicial Reviews risks breaking the Act of Union of 1707.
Blotte their copybook of course by not giving Joanna Cherry QC MP her QC status while giving it to a male Lord. The London media are just casually sexist and disrespetful of our representatives.
Robert Louis at 10:30
Scotland has no ‘constitutional rights’. That’s why we’re being dragged out of the EU.
What are SNP ‘principles’ & ‘values’ ???
In other news, ROTTEN Scot Gov makes BANANA UK’s top 10 virtue signalers of 2020:
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/510455-top-british-virtue-signalers/
I guess some revanchist Unionist has had a word with Mrs Murrell spelling out in graphic detail how BritState would respond should the Scots dare to opt for independence. Project Fear #2, The Reckoning?
She has plainly lost it, as the case for independence, which is always a positive one, has been made by circumstance.
She has indicated by her draconian and fruitless decrees on ‘the pandemic’ that she may be haunted by irrational fears. The dread of an outbreak of Jovid-21 sweeping Scotland may acount for the deficit in bottle. Or it could be she is just not up to job.
They say a fish rots from the head down.
Gregory Beekman @11:30 pm
“If this strategy helps us gain independence, I’m all for it”.
If the strategy of saving 2 pence pieces made me a millionaire I’d be all for it.
In the comments so far, there is an assumption that all the SNP MPs at Westminster will just keel over and follow the party line. As if all NS has to do is dictate and they meekly follow. Well, if any of you SNP MPs happen to be reading this website, this is your chance to show that you – yes, YOU, representative of your constituency that you are – actually do matter.
It is also your chance to put some distance between yourself and your not-so-glorious and heading-for-downfall leader. This is YOUR chance to tell her to take a jump, and indicate – even to your constituents, as well as to her – that, YES, YOU DO MATTER.
She has now said quite openly that you are a waste of time, and a waste of space. That your votes don’t matter. In other words, according to your leader, you are keeping a green bench warm to no purpose whatsoever.
This is NOT what your constituents thought you wanted to go down there for. They didn’t think you just wanted to be an ineffectual benchwarmer. They sent you down there to work your backside off for Scotland. They sent you there for that purpose. Not just to stuff your back pocket with pound notes – padding your backside to keep it and the bench warm – while doing nothing that would be of any effective use whatsoever for Scotland’s cause.
So, here is YOUR chance to show your constituents that, no matter what NS thinks and says, YOU yourself really DO matter. Why don’t you stand up and speak, and for once say what YOU yourself really think? Why not show those who voted for you what you really believe in, and want to say?
Why don’t you stand up and VOTE THE WAY YOU REALLY WANT TO VOTE, and OUGHT to vote?
If you are afraid of your leader, in case she expels or excises you, or frames you or makes you walk the plank or take the cyanide pill because you didn’t follow her diktat, just stand up and tell her she has nothing to complain about. She declared to the world that your vote didn’t matter anyway. So why should it matter to her what way you vote?
And remind her you are not down there on these green benches in the padded cell which is Westminster to represent her, but to represent your constituents. If, as she announced, the way you vote doesn’t make any difference to the outcome anyway, that obviously makes it a free vote anyway. And you are freely going to vote in Scotland’s interest, because that’s what your constituents sent you down to do in the first place.
So here’s YOUR chance. Why don’t you vote the way you want to, and not just bow to her every command? Send out a message. Tell your constituents that, for YOU, nothing comes before Scotland’s interests. And tell her you’re not a toady. Or a wimp, or a plaything in her hands, with which she can do anything she wants. You have to know when to say ‘No’ to her.
The time has now come for YOU SNP MPs (and MSPs) to stand up and be counted. That includes beginning to oppose clearly and openly the continual postponement of the independence agenda, and the take-over of your Party by uncommitted carpet-baggers for their own selfish and secondary purposes.
This is the perfect opportunity for YOU, as an SNP MP, to put some clear water between you and your ineffectual and counter-productive leadership. For YOU to speak in a way that your constituents can understand. For YOU to show that YOU, and your votes, DO matter!
Every constituency in Scotland, YOURS included, voted to stay in Europe. Stand up and say that you and your constituents oppose Brexit, so YOU CANNOT VOTE FOR A BREXIT DEAL. At the same time, you CANNOT VOTE FOR A NO-DEAL BREXIT which is what would follow if the motion before the HoC fails. Because a NO DEAL BREXIT WOULD CAUSE EVEN MORE DAMAGE to your constituents than the highly flawed, and wholly unacceptable deal, that the motion proposes.
Therefore, you are having nothing to do with any of it.
And you can add something that will give a message not only to the UK but also to the EU. Something that NS should have been proclaiming all along, but said nothing about. Something that will stand Scotland in good stead for the future. Namely, that the WHOLE PROCESS leading up to this motion, and THE RESULT that it has achieved, is contrary to the constitution of the UK and therefore INTRINSICALLY INVALID. Neither the UK government nor the EU should have negotiated it in breach of the founding document of the United Kingdom, which is the Treaty of Union, and without which the United Kingdom simply does not exist.
And let them both know – EU and UK alike – that even if it passes through the Westminster parliament and obtains the royal assent, the proposed legislation will still be without the force of law in any case. JUST SAY IT! AFFIRM IT! Stand up and be counted. For the whole of Scotland’s sake, as well as for the sake of your very own constituents. Who sent you down there to hear this kind of thing. Not to warm a bench or fill a pocket but to get up off your backside, and stand up – really stand up!
YOUR leader, and all the inner circle leadership of YOUR Party needs very much to hear this. And it needs to hear more and more it from its own MPs and MSPs. They have to know that they can’t keep on doing whatever they like, or taking their constituents for granted. If they don’t listen to the grass-roots, YOU should. If they don’t represent the grass-roots, YOU should. It is up to YOU to make YOUR votes, and through YOUR votes THEIR voice, count.
This is YOUR chance to begin telling YOUR leaders what they ought to be hearing, and listening to very attentively. Enjoy telling them, and get used to it. They need to hear it more and more.
Even if you are a career politician, a breed of people a lot of us really don’t care for, you could even be doing yourself a favour. When the SNP cookie crumbles, as it soon will, this is YOUR chance to get onto the right side of the crumble, when things do finally fall apart.
Of course, if you are only half-baked, at crumbling point you will just turn back into the mush that you are truly made of. Which will be no loss to the rest of us.
Your leadership is for sure going to be challenged. It might or might not survive. But even if it does, it won’t be for long. People with a backbone will be needed soon enough. So, for all YOU SNP MPs, if YOU do have a backbone, this is a great opportunity for you: get started, and use it.
Some people posting above are vainly hoping that there will be such a rebellion against the Deal that it will be thrown out. There is no chance of that (on that blatantly obvious point, evn the calculation of NS is correct). But the rebellion that COULD happen could be even more important, especially for Scotland’s cause. This COULD still be the moment when enough SNP MPs begin to stand up publicly to the SNP leadership, and not just act like lapdugs. And if some do, more might then take courage and follow on afterwards.
Most here recognise that the SNP leadership is in dire need of change. That won’t happen simply by grass-roots disaffection. The leadership has become astonishingly and stonily deaf its own supporters, not just within the SNP but in the wider independence movement (which is where most of its votes come from). The people who can put pressure, to a degree that the leadership cannot ignore, are its own MPs and MSPs. Time for them to begin speaking up more and more, getting their voices heard, more and more. Now or never, really.
The Westminster vote on Brexit is a golden opportunity for quite a few of them to make themselves – and us – heard. Will they seize it, and grasp it? Or will they let it go by them, wimping their way along to their eventual oblivion?
“Blotted their copybook of course”
Rather badly, and not just with Joanna Cherry. See this?
“Therefore, the Scottish legal system was not recently devolved, but has been distinctively and independently Scottish for over 300 years.”
Oh, really? For over 1200 years at the least!
A more English-centric perception than seeing Scots Law as having no meaningful existence prior to the 1707 Treaty of Union would be hard to come by.
@wull
Cracking rant – well said. Deep down though you know that it’ll be just more pointless bluster from them, how outraged they are, etc.
I’m at a loss to think what would light a rocket up the collective arses of the SNP.
A quick fix might be to reissue the tweet, but replace everything after
“.. far better then for our MPs to”
with
“..sit with us in Holyrood this week and set out the way forward from here.” 🙂
Since Scot Renewables told us all yesterday that Nicola Sturgeon reads this blog, this comment is directed to Nicola Sturgeon, without a doubt the greatest pretender Scotland has ever had this side of history.
“The Brexit deal will pass regardless of how the SNP votes”
So what exactly is the point of SNP MPs remaining in Westminster?
“Scotland’s voice and interests are unimportant to the Westminster establishment?
And it took you 6 years to realise of that? Is this the conclusion reached by all those expensive political advisors you are hiring at our expense? Well, you better sack them all because quite frankly, it would take the average voter less than 6 minutes to work that one out.
If Scotland’s voice and interests are unimportant to the Westminster establishment, why are you insisting in the SNP MPs remaining a part of it?
“Far better then for our MPs to cast a principled vote against Brexit”
Are you so devoid of creativity already that you are now recycling your tweets from years ago?
Thanks to you, a vote against Brexit is no longer on offer. You made sure of that when you chose to kneel before Westminster’s sovereignty, brush our 62% against Brexit under the carpet of the forgotten and more recently flush down the drains the stop brexit mandate your party was elected on in the last GE.
Principled you say?
From this side of the road I see nothing principled in a political party that has been elected to deliver independence and that was elected on a mandate to stop brexit, voting against a Brexit deal. In the same way, I see nothing principled in that party voting in for the deal or abstaining.
The principled option is NOT putting our MPs in a position of having to seat in a foreign parliament that is about to constitutionally subjugate Scotland and, to rub salt in the wounds, force them to choose between two options that both will lead to the dismissal of Scotland’s expressed democratic will.
Them sitting in that parliament is legitimising that vote and therefore the subjugation of Scotland. There is absolutely nothing principled in that no matter what perspective you choose to look at it from.
Let me tell you that as an SNP voter until the last 2019 election, because I do no longer have the stomach to cast my vote for the wreck you have transformed the SNP into, I hold you responsible for this, your total inaction at best or what looks like a collusion with England’s government and betrayal of Scotland’s interests at worse.
There is only one principled thing for you left to do and that is to resign. Why? Because you failed at every task.
You failed to deliver even a single one of the many mandates the people of Scotland entrusted you with. You failed to keep civil servants at heel so under your premiere we have seen what looks like the most disgusting political conspiracy emerge from the guts of the Scottish government, an innocent man’s life and reputation ruined and hundreds of thousands of taxpayers’ pounds if not millions wasted to cover the conspirators’ arses.
You failed to all those donors who gave their money to a campaign to raise and ring-fence funds for indyref. You failed to ensure the SNP remains sustainable, respectable, principled, electable and democratic.
You failed to progress Scotland’s autonomy when you have been given all the tools to do so. You failed to uphold Scotland’s sovereignty and failed to protect our rights, our powers and assets.
You failed to give us a choice, in fact you have deliberately taken away from us all choice. You failed to ensure we could exercise our self determination with no delay, in fact you have used any excuse to delay that exercise.
You claim to be a feminist and yet failed to protect female’s rights and let those who fight for them to be smeared as transphobes.
You failed to protect freedom of speech. Under your premiership, a bill that would make Mussolini and Franco turn on their graves with envy, was concocted seemingly to shut dissent.
You failed for 9 months to stop this virus coming continuously into Scotland because of your refusal to push Scotland’s autonomy boundaries outwards by closing the borders. You have made it crystal clear that you are only prepared to pull those autonomy boundaries inwards on Westminster’s command. Then you have the brass neck to use the virus to lock us down, collapse the economy and claim you cannot deliver indyref until the pandemic ends and the economy recovers. The dishonesty in that is beyond the pale.
In 6 years you failed to launch a single pro independence campaign and you have absolutely no valid excuse for that.
As a pro independence leader and FM you turned out to be a complete failure, therefore the only principled thing for you and Mr Blackford to do after lying in the House of Commons by saying that “Scotland would not be dragged out of the EU against its will” when it is now almost a year we were dragged and you have done nothing to stop it, is to resign.
Weren’t the two of you viciously demanding Ms Ferrier to resign for her mistake? Well her mistake is insignificant compared to yours. So what are you two waiting for to lead by example and act by the standards you demand others to follow?
The floor is all yours.
There is only one principled position for our SNP MPs to take:
Our SNP MPs must, just before the vote, stand up and announce that as they are the representatives of the majority of the sovereign Scottish electorate in this place of unlimited authority, that they are therefore formally and unequivocally the true voice of Scotland in this place of power, and as such they now formally declare that the 1707 Treaty of Union is irredeemably breached, reviled, resiled, rescinded and undone, and that thereby Scotland is no longer a member of the false union that is the United Kingdom and therefore can no longer be governed from Westminster, as without our MPs and without the authority of the 1707 ToU Westminster has no mandate of governance over Scotland.
They should then walk out for the last time from that place, and if possible take the mace with them and dump it in a bin.
They must then call a press conference and explain their position in more detail, and make it clear that they are never coming back as MPs, except solely as negotiators on behalf of Scotland for the settling up of England’s many debts, insults and crimes against Scotland. There will be no apologies whatsoever for that action in Westminster, implied or otherwise! If Westminster requires an explanation or justification of any sort, they will be given a single word – ‘Brexit’, and nothing else. We do not need to explain or justify ourselves to them, ever. Quite the reverse!
Of course it would cause an unholy stushie in all sorts of ways, but that is exactly what is needed because we need it to be crystal clear that Scotland will no longer tolerate being treated in such an outrageously disrespectful manner as Westminster has been doing for many years now, and this Brexit is the utter last straw!
We need to bloody Westminster’s nose and to be seen to do it absolutely as hard as we can for all the world to see.
Discuss! 😀
I wrote this before my previous post, but wasn’t sure I should post it, but I just read wull’s post, so I’ve just changed my mind. The above will never happen, but I can dream just for my sanity’s sake.
“Salmond will appear before the committee on January 19, while Sturgeon will give evidence on January 26”, reports The National.
Boom time!
We promise according to our hopes
and perform according to our fears.
[Francois de La Rochefoucauld]
Forget safety.
Live where you fear to live.
Destroy your reputation.
Be notorious.
[Jal?l ad-D?n Muhammad R?m?]
A very apt description ” on the shoulders of Pygmys ”
Even the most trusting supporters of the current management must be looking around for some semblance of what’s next , what’s the plan I am afraid disappointment is all they are likely to find
Big jobs little jobs usually work out better when you plan , I have yet to see the Plan any Plan I can’t see the point in hinting there is a Plan but we don’t want to give the opposition any help , ffs every single thing that the Scottish Government are likely to do has been anticipated every move has been worked out so what’s the point in kidding people on that the master Plan is under wraps .
All that’s left is the management are taking the piss and hoping people don’t notice, if you want to know what’s going on you would be better reading the Daily Record because you ain’t going to get it from the SNP the party of Government
Jal?l ad-D?n Muhammad R?m?
A graphic example of anglocentrism
Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi, without the accents.
@ Daisy Walker at 12:25 am
“it’s about country, not party ” That mantra has been running since 2013 along with the similar “Don’t say anything that’ll effect independence, it evolved to don’t say anything against sturgeon, or the MP/MSP who you know is not quite right”
“SNP are now the biggest block to that.” Martin Keating is attempting to raise funds, Sturgeon gives more to the WokeMaster General (for legal fee that he created in making the problem) than Keating requires ,,,,,Yes the SNP are the biggest block.
Sturgeon will never resign, Murrell is going to BS for Britain( not Scotland) and the Salmond crap is just drifting while “court orders are in place”
“Any member of the SNP advocating that we should, ‘negotiate’ this. Has got to answer the question when is enough, where is enough, how long is enough…” ,,,,that more or less says it all, MPs and MSPs need some semblance of at least ONE backbone
One member of the SNP to come out and say “this is what the leader have done” but no “We’ll get an inquiry behind the curtain” Unfortunately IT’S TOO LATE
“Stronger For Scotland” Aye Right not with Sturgeon’s SNP
“Yours For Scotland” Both of those stand for Let me at the trough (first)
Mia , though not a supporter of blood-sports I am really enjoying your eviscerations of the sheep-in-wolf’s- clothing that passes itself off as the Protector of Scotland . Brilliant , keep flaying
“Boom time!”
Will it be, though?
I am now convinced Sturgeon has been working for the British State all along and I haven’t much confidence in that Parliamentary Inquiry.
I wouldn’t be surprised if some development suddenly makes the inquiry to turn on itself to artificially ping the blame on Mr Salmond to conveniently tarnish his reputation even more or simply decide they do not have sufficient information to continue so the matter remains unresolved.
As a last resource, It wouldn’t take me for surprise if some adverse event could be announced just in the nick of time so the parliamentary inquiry is either delayed again as it was with the prospect of the Criminal Case or derailed completely because it will come far too close to the 2021 election day without a resolution.
We have seen it all before.
After reading the evidence submitted to the parliamentary inquiry, I have now convinced myself the complaints procedure was just another tool to smear Mr Salmond and the criminal case was only brought in to delay that parliamentary inquiry into the botched procedure, hence being let to proceed on such ridiculous flimsy charges. In my view, if they had the stomach and power to do such thing, they could do anything to derail that inquiry. So far, Sturgeon’s government has ignored two parliamentary votes to release the evidence in full and no VONC in yet on sight.
I am not optimistic about the real scope of the inquiry and I am preparing myself for it to degenerate into another toothless PR exercise for the union.
If the SNP held the balance of power in Westminster, the country would not be in the position is now.
Quite simply, your post is predicated on an entirely fallacious premise.
Nothing new there.
Mia @9.56pm – Magnificent!
I agree with every word.
Daisy Walker @ 12.25
You are right, now is absolutely the perfect time for the SNP Scotland majority to walk out of the Westminster joint parliament taking our Scottish sovereignty with them. Breaches of the Treaty of Union and ever more blatantly tyrannical rule over Scots is more than enough justification for ending our UK alliance. England’s MP’s treating Scotland like their daft wee colony is no longer acceptable to most Scots.
The world will be watching and listening. Scotland’s national representatives have the lawful and constitutional right to do this. They first and foremost have a duty to protect Scotland’s national sovereignty which is now being eroded and soon will be removed entirely. They must act and act now, by serving notice of their intention to withdraw Scotland from the UK alliance.
Abstaining is the only option here. Neither voting for or voting against represents Scotland’s view. They are both terrible choices. Vote for neither. And FFS stop procrastinating! Get Indy done.
@Robert Moore,
The other utterly fallacious premise is of course that the SNP are fighting for Independence.
Nothing new there either.
There is a word that describes people who sel out to an enemy and that word phonetically spelled is ” traytor ‘
The SNP leadership has an opportunity to renounce that by waking out from Westminster.
@Robert Moore
Funny, at the election I heard Vote SNP to Stop Brexit, Stop Boris and Put Scotland’s future in Scotland’s hands.
Don’t remember anyone saying “but only if the Westminster parliamentary arithmetic pans out in precisely the way we need it to”.
So:
Vote SNP to Stop Brexit – FAIL.
Vote SNP to Stop Boris – FAIL.
Vote SNP to put Scotland’s Future in Scotland’s Hands – need I even spell it out?
These were the terms set out by Sturgeon. It was her pledge, her offer, her choice. She has failed by her own measure, and failed miserably.
She should resign as a matter of principle but, as the article clearly articulates, she wouldn’t know a principle if it was ring-fenced in front of her deceitful face.
Can we have at least one SNP MP walking out, then? A hint of integrity and courage? Or are they just going to prove that they’ve ALL been sold for English gold?
Walk out and stay out. And explain why.
One?
“If the SNP held the balance of power in Westminster, the country would not be in the position is now”
Personally I think it is naive to even entertain that a Scottish or Welsh nationalist party will ever be allowed by the English establishment to hold the balance of power at Westminster.
Before that could happen, we will have labour and tories joining in to stop it. They have proved more often than not that the boundaries between labour and tories are as fluid and diverse as the unscientific non-binary gender the genderwoowoo expect us to believe exists.
Look back in time and you will see that at every possible point in modern political history where the tories were on a bit of a bother and at risk of being boycotted by their own backbenchers, along comes the “moderates” or whatever they call themselves on the day from labour’s own backbenches (or front benches if the matter is important enough) to help them out and pass whatever the English establishment needs to be passed. Every single time. Without fail.
This deal must be making quite a few tories uncomfortable because the establishment has already instructed its other puppet Starmer to triple-whipping his MPs in preparation to support the deal.
The only true thing Sturgeon has said in 6 years is:
“The brexit deal will pass regardless on how the SNP votes”
Remove the words “brexit deal” and include anything you want and those words will still ring true. Keeping our MPs in westminster for the last 5 years has been a complete waste of our time and is not doing any favours to Scotland. On the contrary, it is legitimising the continuous encroaching of England MPs into our territory, powers, rights and assets.
Interesting article about why ‘Britain’ is the way it is and is unlikely to ever change –
‘The disasters, then, will continue to mount up, but will they result in any change? If history teaches us anything, it is that this country’s mixture of cap-doffing and unassailable privilege tends to keep even the most rotten hierarchies in place, and the saga grinds on. This is the essence of the very British mess that we seem unable to escape.’
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/history-britain-ruling-class-created-crisis-boris-johnson-brexit-covid
Yet Sturgeon’s SNP continue to pretend that they can get an agreement from this lot.
My heartfelt thanks to Stuart and all the commentators on this thread. I have enjoyed reading everyone’s contribution even those who I do not always agree with. (CameronB Brodie’s comment at 1:30 am and Hatuey’s comment at 2:33 am are particularly insightful.)
In these dark times we are all searching for the light. Will the SNP MPs at Westminster have the courage to strike a match and give us the light that our country so desperately needs?
No matter how or on what the SNP MPs vote in Westminster, they are ignored. So your article is mainly irrelevant. You are now so virulently anti Nicola Sturgeon that you have lost sight of the fact that the SNP are the only poitical party which will achieve Independence. Like it or not it has to be done legally – for the time being. We have our Brexit. We are dealing with COVID and expect that everything will come into sharp focus in the coming months when more direct action will be forthcoming from both SNP Mps and MSPs.
Another great article rev telling it exactly as it is.
Westminster does not represent Scotland’s interests and never has done so what the hell are the SNP doing there. Apart from a few they are a bunch of gutless freebooters who have betrayed us all.
SM
Are you really that simple.
Sturgeon has absolutely no intention of pursuing independence and anyone who supports this dangerous despicable woman agrees with her.
Sandy Merry says:
“You are now so virulently anti Nicola Sturgeon that you have lost sight of the fact that the SNP are the only poitical party which will achieve Independence”
That is the point the Rev is trying to get across. NS and her chums have no inclinatiion to seek independence. It would disrupt their cushy number.
If Johnson had a brainstorm ans said in Westminster that the Jocks could have their independence, Sturgeon would find a reason to turn it down!
@’Sandy Merry says:
28 December, 2020 at 1:59 pm
No matter how or on what the SNP MPs vote in Westminster, they are ignored. So your article is mainly irrelevant. You are now so virulently anti Nicola Sturgeon that you have lost sight of the fact that the SNP are the only poitical party which will achieve Independence. Like it or not it has to be done legally – for the time being. We have our Brexit. We are dealing with COVID and expect that everything will come into sharp focus in the coming months when more direct action will be forthcoming from both SNP Mps and MSPs.’
‘like it or not it has to be done legally’ – agreed, a plebiscite election delivers that.
‘We have our Brext’ …. ‘our Brexit’, did you really say ‘our Brexit’ – that’ll be the one that Scotland voted, by clear majority not to have is it?
‘expect that everything will come into sharp focus in the coming months, when more direct action will be forthcoming from SNP MP’s and MSP’s’.
If things are not in pretty bloody sharp focus now, and the need for direct action to happen now (particularly since Covid makes it more difficult to campaign) is not recognised now, then it either total bloody incompetence, or downright nobbled. Either way its a great big FAIL.
Never mind though, LOOK AT THE POLLS, LOOK AT THE POLLS, SOMEWHERE OVER THE RAINBOW.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me over and over and over again, and there’s not enough shame for one small country to contain. SHAMEFUL FOOLS, FOOL OF SHAME.
Xaracen @ 0953 a.m. couldn’t agree more with this post . The Treaty of Union of 1707 now lies in tatters . The sovereign will of the Scottish people has been crushed by “ English Brexit” . There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for our SNP MP ‘s to remain at Westminster after Jan 1st . Quite simply they should withdraw and a referendum on Independence must take place without further delay ( with or without any section 30 ). Over to you NS and I B
Rev, there is virtually zero change the Brexit Deal bill will be defeated with a gov’t with a 80+ seat majority. Starmer’s Labour are voting for it bcos they want to win Brexit seats in the north of England, that’s the cynical move.
@ Xaracen @ 9.53am , wull and Mia very well said all of you , and yet we STILL have the apologists and sycophants rushing to the sainted ones defence and IGNORING the TRUTH and EVIDENCE that Stuart provides daily and is renowned for
Xaracen I do hope that MAC ASKILL , CHERRY , WHITFORD , ANGUS MACNEIL , HENDRY ,and any other REAL SCOTS representatives read your post and FORCE their craven colleagues to FIND A SPINE and DO EXACTLY what we EXPECT them to do , forget worrying about STURGEON , worry about the repercussions doing NOTHING will have on your future when independence supporters rally at the ballot box and EXPOSE YOUR ineptitude in PROTECTING SCOTLAND from this total clusterfuck
I And my Family will NOT VOTE for a shower of craven cowards who REFUSE through inaction to protect Scotland and Scots
North chiel. After jan 1st. Our SNP representatives if they had a modicum of.self respect should walk out of westminster. Otherwise what purpose are they serving?
Twathater. Be careful or you will have scotsrenewables on your case.
All you folk demanding that SNP MPs walk out of the HoC forever, what do you think will happen after you’ve had you big dramatic moment? Boris & Co will proceed to dismantle whatever limited powers the devolved parliaments have with nary a voice raised against it on Scotland’s behalf. They’ll probably also trade away Scotland’s interests in future negotiations with the EU for concessions favourable to England. (The current “deal” is just the start) MSPs at Holyrood can rant and rave all they want, the English media will simply not report it. They do however report what happens in the Westminster parliament. Abstaining from the HoC would be abdicating their duty to speak up for the people who elected them. Be careful what you wish for.
“StuartM @ 0331 p.m.” “ Boris &co will proceed to dismantle what limited powers the devolved parliaments have”
He has already started to “ take back control “ by way of the internal market bill . So what difference does it make , as our Westminster MP’s are outvoted 10 to 1 by English MP’s . These Scottish members represent the Sovereign wishes of the people of Scotland and quite simply it makes no difference whether they vote or not under this system .They can stand up and show as much indignation & outrage as they want , however English votes win in this situation . Our sovereignty has been breached and we need a vote on Independence