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Wings Over Scotland


The prisoner

Posted on February 01, 2020 by

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    1239 to “The prisoner”

    1. Republicofscotland says:

      Polls beginning to show a constant 50%+ swing in favour of independence. We just need to hold on and be ready for whatever happens next.

      I see the Denison barracks boys are in full swing desperately trying to put down anything that threatens this prison, I mean union.

    2. kapelmeister says:

      Cameron gave the go ahead for the EU referendum when Leave was 37% in opinion polls. That was deemed to be a demand for a vote. Scotland now consistently polling 50%+ for independence.

    3. Colin Alexander says:

      I am no upset about no indyref2.

      I am very concerned about this:

      That Sturgeon, the SNP, AND the Scottish Parliament accept Westminster is the boss, not the people of Scotland.

      They accept “Crown in Parliament” UK Parliament sovereignty, despite their assertions that Scotland’s people are sovereign.

      It is a complete surrender of Scotland’s constitution and Scotland’s sovereignty.

      Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words. Sturgeon’s actions in particular tell us, she bends the knee to UK Parliament, not to Scotland’s people who elected her.

      “Scotland cannot amend or end the Union”. “Scotland “can’t have an indyref without s30” and “it must be acceptable to the UK”, and the meek cooperation with Scotland’s Brexit are the outward symptoms of “colonial syndrome”.

      The fundamental issue, as Breeks explains at length, is the failure to defend and exercise Scotland’s sovereign power.

      The rot has set in from the top down. Despite her years of good service to the cause, Nicola has developed colonial syndrome, She should accept she’s no longer the right person to lead and should step down or be removed.

    4. kapelmeister says:

      Colin Alexander

      Stop trying to start civil war in the independence movement. Everyone here sees through you.

    5. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, I know I said I’m taking a break, but I want to leave this for folk to think about.

      The SNP’s apparent desire to introduce gender ideology in to law, poses a serious threat to open society and open government in Scotland. This desire appears to be supported by Scotland’s judiciary, who seem happy to accept anti-foundationalist epistemology into their jurisprudence.

      As gender-ideology has no empirical foundations, such action seriously impairs the rationality and impartiality of the Scottish legal system, position biological women as second-class citizens, and pretty much destroy any potential for Scottish independence. As such, the introduction of gender-ideology into law, is reasonably coherent with the law and legal practice that justifies Brexit.

      Third-wave feminist epistemology is not well suited to enabling the recognition and respect of difference. How can you defend your human rights when you deny the nature of the human condition, and the foundations of ethical reason, i.e. the natural law?

      Rescuing Epistemology

      Abstract

      Over the last three decades, the whole project of epistemology has been subjected to criticism and change. This process has been marked, successively, by the transfer of epistemic sovereignty to the “social” domain, by the rediscovery of ontology and by attention to constitutive normativity and the political implications of knowledge.

      Some have even suggested that epistemology should be abandoned altogether as a philosophical project. However, this process has been offset by a proposal for a new epistemology, rooted in the experiences of the global South.

      This article explores the possibilities of creating a space for dialogue between the various critiques (“naturalist,” feminist, postcolonialist, epistemographic, epistopic, etc) of epistemology as a philosophical project, and Boaventura de Sousa Santos’s proposal for an epistemology of the South, taking as a starting point a review of philosophical pragmatism as the most radical form of criticism of conventional epistemology.

      Keywords :epistemology, knowledge production, philosophical pragmatism, epistemology of the South, abyssal and post-abyssal thinking

      https://journals.openedition.org/rccsar/165

    6. Colin Alexander says:

      Read them and weep:

      SNP Manifesto 2016:

      “We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will”

      SNP Manifesto 2019:

      “A vote for the SNP in this election, therefore,
      is a vote to endorse the following position:

      • the people of Scotland have the right to
      choose their own future in a new referendum
      on becoming an independent country,

      • it must be for the Scottish Parliament
      not Westminster to decide when an
      independence referendum should be held –
      and the SNP intends that it will be in 2020”.

    7. Gary45% says:

      Just watched todays Indy Car, Happy Days!!

    8. Liz g says:

      Joe @
      No Joe the precedent of 50%+1 has been set twice now.
      Once each in both Countries.
      Westminster would not be justified, ( not that the decision is theirs anymore, Holyrood have just took control of referenda in this country ) especially not on the grounds of divisions.
      Mainly because they are currently pushing the line that the “right” government can bring the “Country” back together!
      Both cannot be true!
      That’s a government with a 40 odd % majority mind ye…
      So if they are as right as they insist they are,then what this poll actually shows is that, the kind of majority the SNP will command should have no problems at all.
      But as I said that’s by “Royal Assent ” a Holyrood decision now.

    9. Liz g says:

      Colin Alexander @ 10.50
      Are you standing by your Chowchesku remarks ?

    10. Almond Chutney says:

      Just to be realistic a second, are we actually thinking that holyrood has power and influence over WM at this point?

      Do people really believe that WM is going to grant this ref, and where does it mention that holyrood has power over this now, there has been no section 30 order granted, @Liz g, 10:53????? Don’t delude yourselves, you’re not out of the woods yet.

    11. CameronB Brodie says:

      Nationality is a bit like a skin, it encloses the body-politic. Britain is a political construct that contains multiple nations. Contemporary British constitutionalism refuses to recognise this fact, and instead insists we all wear the skin of far-right English nationalism. Appart from Northern Ireland, of course. As such, Britain can no longer be considered a social democracy, as the British constitution no longer retains sufficient moral authority to provide legal force over Scotland.

      If Scotland had some judges who respected the rule-of-law, Scotland might be better defended. Then again, I seriously think all our judges are Tories supporters of (white) British nationalism. They certainly appear to be.

      FROM POLITICAL LIBERALISM TO PARA-LIBERALISM:
      EPISTEMOLOGICAL PLURALISM, COGNITIVE LIBERALISM
      & AUTHENTIC CHOICE

      ABSTRACT:
      Advocates of political liberalism hold it as a superior alternative to perfectionism on the grounds that it avoids superfluous and/or controversial claims in favor of a maximally-inclusive approach undergirded by a “free-standing” justification for theideology.

      These assertions prove difficult to defend: political interpretations of liberalism tend to be implicitly ethnocentric; they often rely upon a number of controversial, and even empirically falsified, assumptions about rationality – and in many ways prove more parochial than their perfectionist cousins.

      It is possible to reform political liberalism to address these challenges, but generally at the expense of the supposed normative force and universality of the liberal project. However, this para-liberal approach is much better in keeping with contemporary findings in sociology, psychology and cognitive science – and can much more
      effectively accommodate the illiberal challenge.

      Keywords:
      pluralism, liberalism, rationality

      https://scholarworks.sjsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1163&context=comparativephilosophy

      Contextualism in Epistemology
      https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199935314.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199935314-e-12

      A Skin, not a Sweater: Ontology and Epistemology in Social Science
      https://www.governanceinstitute.edu.au/magma/media/upload/ckeditor/files/GRF%203%20-%20A%20Skin,%20Not%20a%20Sweater.Pdf

    12. Dr Jim says:

      I never ceases to amaze me the number of people who have never met, don’t know the FM whatsoever but seem to enjoy describing her character as if they do know her because they read an article in a newspaper by some arsehole she doesn’t talk to anyway, and I’ve seen it recently on this site with some folk describing her as La Sturgeon and there’s only one journalist who does that and it’s Alan Cochrane who occasionaly writes for the Telegraph because he can’t get a job anywhere else, and that’s because he’s a rabid Tory who hates her because she isn’t one of his breed

      Remember he’s the guy who described Ruth Davidson as the most clever and politically aware future Prime Minister of the UK that La Sturgeon fears most

    13. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, it’s a fair cop, I’ve actually been trying to enculturate the WOS readership.

      The Encultured Mind: From Cognitive Science to
      Social Epistemology

      https://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6669&context=etd

    14. Golfnut says:

      @ Almond Chutney.

      Actually its you thats wrong, the Scottish Parliament now has in law the power to hold referendums. Before the referendum Act and subsequent royal ascent, it was more of a convention, because referendums had not actually been reserved to Westminster by the Scotland Act.
      Now Westminster would need to challenge any referendum through the courts, so it would be a decision in law rather than dictat from bono.

    15. Dan says:

      @Liz g

      It looks like you’re being told to bow down to your nutty flavoured savoury jam imperial master…

      #NotSoUnionOfEquals

    16. Abulhaq says:

      An old nationalist term for the BBC is the Anglosaxophone. The new name might be Torybugle.
      The corporation is sticking with nannie. Bless!

    17. Liz g says:

      Almond Chutney @ 11.13
      Don’t twist what I said…
      Joe and I were discussing Westminster’s right to impose a 60% threshold.
      On the referendum we’re supposedly not going to be having.
      The referendum that Westminster is starting an advertising campaign against to secure the Union that’s not at any risk !

      Holyrood has taken that decision to itself,it has legislation in place about how a referendum is conducted in Scotland which will include setting the threshold.
      Read it again and you’ll see!

    18. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ve not lost the plot, I’ve just reached peak flow and hit a mother-load of knowledge. Without a respect for epistemic integrity, moral justice is simply not possible. If you undermine legal reason, you undermine the potential for the law to deliver justice.

      “Knower” as an Ethical Concept:
      From Epistemic Agency to Mutual Recognition

      Abstract
      Recent discussions in critical social epistemology have raised the idea that the concept “knower” is not only an epistemological concept but an ethical concept as well. Though this idea plays a central role in these discussions, the theoretical underpinnings of the claim have not received extended scrutiny.

      This paper explores the idea that “knower” is an irreducibly ethical concept in an effort to defend its use as a critical concept. In section 1, I begin with the claim that “knower” is an irreducibly normative and social concept, drawing from some ideas in Wilfrid Sellars. In section 2, I argue that one’s being a knower involves demands for various sorts of ethically laden recognition. I develop this thought by arguing that Axel Honneth’s threefold typology of recognition – love, respect, and esteem – finds clear expression within the context of socio-epistemic practice.

      I conclude in section 3 by arguing that Miranda Fricker’s proposed “analogy” between epistemic and moral perception should be modified to indicate a closer relationship than mere analogy.

      Keywords:
      ethics, social epistemology, feminist epistemology, recognition, epistemic injustice

      https://ojs.lib.uwo.ca/index.php/fpq/article/download/6228/4985/

    19. Liz g says:

      Dan @ 11.39
      The cognitive dissonance from the British Nationalists on here is becoming ridiculous….
      I’m bordering on pity now 🙂
      They create 28 borders for them and us,then and screech about us trying to reduce that to two.
      They walk away from 27 countries but are terrified to let this one go?
      They say they have the power to keep us then advertise for us to stay!
      They leave the EU because it cost too much then believe they pay the way for a whole other country.
      They don’t want any country to have a say over their affairs but leave their nuclear weapons at our whim.

      They’re through the fecken looking glass Dan 🙂

    20. manandboy says:

      ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW (in Guardian BTL)

      dovlab says:
      “As a Serb who’s been living in a half-failed state for my entire life, I can tell you one thing, your government WILL totally demolish your country. No questions about it.
      The moment a country goes in a vicious spiral where politicians cause problems they later use to accuse others and strengthen their power is the moment that country ran its course. It’s a one way street and it will only get worse.

      Smart people will soon feel so powerless as they realize this tactics will cause more and more people to believe that all the problems (and you will have them more) are caused by others (EU, immigrants, communists…) and those smart people will suddenly feel so weak.
      On the other hand, the growing number of those blinded by the charm of the leader and strong words against “the enemies of country” will feel empowered and will push on towards squashing those enemies in any possible way – you can already feel their energy and growing rage when reading comments on daily mail and other similar websites.
      And don’t be fooled, they have a vast majority now, the elections showed their growing strength.

      If you think my view is dire – think about how your country has changed in just a few years.”

    21. Breeks says:

      Tell me Dr Jim, are we still in Europe or Out?

      In case it escaped your notice, Scotland and the sovereign people of Scotland have just been Constitutionally subjugated, and the SNP were asleep at the wheel throughout the operation.

      Nicola’s a nice person is she? Lovely. Terrific. Who the fuck cares? I’d rather she was psycho, goth nut-job bitch from Hades, if it had saved my Nation from such political emasculation as Friday’s spectacle.

      But, but, but, she’s got a plan! Well for fuck sake take it off her and hand her a copy of the goddamned Constitution. Fuck identity politics. Put someone in charge who can do the business of defending our country, not turn up to the Premier three years after the films out.

      This blythe “carry on” as if nothing happened on Friday is a fucking insult. And the microscopic advance in the polls is just like your granny giving you 10p for your Christmas because 50 years ago it meant something. It’s not bad news, thanks Gran, but it’s not gonna buy a poke of chips either.

    22. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Dum-dee-dum-dee-dum-dee-dum.

    23. Dr Jim says:

      Breeks

      Being an arsehole and writing a whole lot of stuff I didn’t say just makes you even more of an arsehole

    24. Effijy says:

      LBC Radio at least reported on Boris trying to
      Eject any media organisation with left wing leanings from
      His speech.

      Tory Rep insists he has the right to give access to who he likes?

      Also Uriah Heep himself, Michael Gove looks to stop protest
      Gathering but all in the best possible taste and for your benefit?

      Closing down parliament makes a triple whammy for following
      In the footsteps of 1930’s Germany.

      All of the above, attacking the disabled, proposing to be a superior race.

      A border with England, I want land mines in place to
      Stop the sound of Jack Boots on Scotland’s Streets.

    25. manandboy says:

      Interesting, CBB. Though not knowing the how, when or where, it came to me, I have used the word ‘knower’ to mean a place within the mind which holds an ‘intuitive’ form of knowledge. I have never sought to expand my knowledge of the ‘knower’ beyond that. Nor would I know how.

    26. CameronB Brodie says:

      I can appreciate why some might not view this insight as having any value or relevance, but then most folk are happy to place politics above the rule-of-law. Which is a direct route to totalitarianism.

      Appologies to Wales and NI, but Britain is historically a unitary state comprising two equal partners, Scotland and England (see international Treaty law). As such, Westminster appears to reject the moral law that provides British constitutional law with legal force. They have re-written the constitution in order to make things appear legal, which is certainly not coherent with natural law.

      If you adopt an irrational social epistemology, as is insisted by Brexit and gender-ideology, you undermine the potential to defend one’s legal identity and legal rights. So those supporting the introduction of gender-ideology into law, are working towards ends that will undermine Scotland’s chance of achieving epistemic and constitutional justice.

      Scotland’s political and legal identity is under serious attack from two cult-like political enemies, British nationalism and woke-nationalism. Scotland’s liberty and social cohesion, is unlikely to survive such abuse. Full text.

      Categories and categorization: Towards a comprehensive
      sociological framework

      Abstract
      This article presents a comprehensive framework for the study of categories and categorization. Sociological studies of the classic theme ‘categorization’ seem to have faded in favor of psychological research and – most recently – policy studies, and we argue that present theories lack an adequate conception of the distinction between political and social categories as well as an adequate conceptualization of the different social contexts for categorization.

      Concerning the first point, we suggest separating an understanding of the political as legitimate use of state power and performative and dislocative practices, corresponding to a conception of the social as that which is beyond political institutions and that which is sedimented and stable. Drawing mainly on French epistemology, the article further discusses three important contexts for social (i.e. beyond political institutions) categories and categorization, namely systems of exchange, symbolic lifestyles and bodily schemes, and moral boundaries and perceptions of normality.

      These contexts are complementary and each presents an autonomous arena for processes of categorization and construction of social categories. In conclusion, we suggest that much can be gained from addressing political categories in the sociological study of categorization.

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254267018_Categories_and_categorization_Towards_a_comprehensive_sociological_framework

    27. CameronB Brodie says:

      manandboy
      Please fill your boots then, if you have the time. 😉

    28. Breeks says:

      Dr Jim, your faith is misplaced. In time you will see.

    29. Dr Jim says:

      Breeks

      I wrote nothing about faith, I wrote nothing about what I believe, I wrote about people inventing character for people they don’t know and hoping to imprint upon others their own impressions, just like you’re doing now

    30. manandboy says:

      If Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson applied for any job anywhere with a comprehensive and factual CV, I doubt he would be hired by anyone.
      His current role is due to an accident of birth which subsequently has afforded him ‘protected’ status. The entire Unionist media are as one, in order to promote and defend him as England’s Emperor with no clothes on.
      By himself, Johnson would have a short shelf-life as PM, but cocooned as he is by the Establishment and the Media, and with a now fully developed method of ‘winning’ any ballot, it seems likely that the goals of the neo-liberal elite will be achieved.
      The world as we know it has been brought under the control of a relatively small number of people, whose lust for wealth and power has increased greatly in recent years, and threatens to consume and then destroy truth, justice and equality in political and economic life, affecting hundreds of millions of people, who will effectively be sacrificed, beginning with the defenceless and the most vulnerable.

      We are living in a new, and dark, dimension.

      But hey, forget that, what’s on the telly tonight then?

    31. CameronB Brodie says:

      I really need to get heading off, but I think I’ve struck oil now. This is why I think justice in Scotland is under serious threat from BritNat and woke irrational-ism and illiberal-ism. 😉

      COGNITIVE AGENDAS AND LEGAL EPISTEMOLOGY

      ABSTRACT
      The domain of legal epistemology is defined from two alternative perspectives: individual epistemology and social epistemology. Since these perspectives have different objects of evaluation, their judgments privilege and exclude different sets of information. While methodological individualism is concerned with justified beliefs of individual knowers, the social angle focuses on the institutional conditions of knowledge.

      I will show that the information that is respectively excluded by both the individual and the social concepts of legal epistemology weaken their respective evaluations. With this in mind, I will explore one new option of defining legal epistemology. This alternative is more comprehensive, in the sense that integrates the information excluded by the aforementioned concepts. My intuition is that such an alternative is more accurate because it takes into account both legal agents and institutions.

      Since “the devil is in the details,” I will corroborate my thesis with two theories of legal epistemology, namely, Susan Haack’s and Alvin Goldman’s. The idea is to show that a proper function legal epistemology illuminates better the main epistemological problems of the field of law.

      https://scholarworks.uark.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1145&context=etd

    32. frogesque says:

      Effigy : 12.28

      Brewer also had a section about 1.15 today on Shortbread radio. Journos not best pleased.

      Not that the National got a mention – or an invite to comment.

    33. CameronB Brodie says:

      There is a logic to my reason. And that reason is a respect for difference and ethical jurisprudence. 😉

      Toward a Foucaultian Epistemology of Resistance:
      Counter-Memory, Episte-mic Friction, and Guerrilla Pluralism

      https://as.vanderbilt.edu/philosophy/people/facultyfiles/medina-toward_a_foucaultian_epistemology_of_resistance.pdf

    34. Ahundredthidiot says:

      No point in arguing anymore.

      SNP MPs took their seats today.

      It’s done.

    35. CameronB Brodie says:

      In order to be a member of a political body, one has to be recognised as human and possessing a legal personality with legal rights. Westminster refuses to do so, with regards to those living in Scotland, and has doubled-down on the poverty of political rights Scotland has learned to live with.

      Hegel, Human Rights, and Political Membership
      https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/hegel-bulletin/article/hegel-human-rights-and-political-membership1/6ED29436EACF9259E8B500E118E8DD88/core-reader

    36. RobertTheTruth says:

      @Dr Jim

      Unless you are privy to the thoughts and wishes of the FM you have no more insight than the rest of us.

      Did all those years in Spain give you more of a clue than us here living and working to get Independence to be taken seriously? A wee newsletter and Christmas card from Nicola must make you feel so special, bless.

      Are you part of the inner circle of the SNP hierarchy?

      If so, then shed some light on what is happening. If not, you are the same as the rest of us trying to infer what the hell is going on. The only difference is we speculate based on actions while you speculate on what seems like blind faith and gullible optimism.Your insights are all based on the ridiculous idea that there is more to come from this leadership. There isn’t – they are waiting for Johnston to make a mistake or change his mind, that is all they have.You see that is the trouble when you let a Creative Scotland leading light define your strategy.

      You are like those Japanese soldiers hiding in the jungle years after the war not wanting to believe their leader surrendered.

      Time to come down from the (wishing) tree, Jungle Jim.

    37. Ian Brotherhood says:

      As and when Johnson starts the love-bombing, we hit him with stuff like this:

      https://twitter.com/1GKh/status/1224662032747843586/photo/1

    38. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Al-Stuart @ 05:48,

      There was nothing in your post besides the passing reference to the SGOP poll that had any relationship with reality or truth. It was a fantastical piece of pure unsupported invention, clearly motivated by some kind of personal bile. If you want to be taken seriously, do try to stick to matters that you can sustain with actual facts.

      Otherwise we are going to draw our inevitable conclusions.

      PS: I’m not a member of the SNP, just an ordinary independent with a mind of my own. But certainly not a dog-in-manger Labourite troll with nowhere to go.

    39. Republicofscotland says:

      Of course of many of us are disappointed that Sturgeon hasn’t made a significant move just before or after we were dragged out of the EU.

      However with very little options available and a FM who doesn’t for now at least, look like going down another route to independence, we must hold the line and stay positive. The recent trio of polls should buoy us all a little bit, and they suggest that people are moving towards independence, not away from it.

      So lets not argue and fight among ourselves as to what might have been, and instead focus on, what can still be. If we need to wait until next year and the Scottish elections so be it, what choice do we have.

      Our chance will come I’ve no doubt about that, and when it does instead of bickering and moaning about this and that, we’ll need to be ready, so stay positive, and keep on sending out the message that Scotland will become independent and if it so desires will join the EU.

    40. Colin Alexander says:

      Whether Sturgeon is nice as pie is irrelevant.

      Her position on Scottish sovereignty v UK Parliamentary sovereignty is unforgivable.

      Tactically, strategically she has been abysmal.

      Sturgeon must go.

    41. admiral says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      4 February, 2020 at 1:18 pm
      As and when Johnson starts the love-bombing, we hit him with stuff like this:
      https://twitter.com/1GKh/status/1224662032747843586/photo/1

      I would run ads showing that nasty little poem about Scotland and the Scots that Johnson allowed to be published in the Spectator, with a heading such as “And here’s what I REALLY think about you, love (ha ha ha – I actually mean hate) Boris”. If they could be placed alongside the UK gov ads, so much the better.

    42. CameronB Brodie says:

      The politician may have conceded, but then they have a job to do. Which doesn’t necessarily correspond to protecting Scotland from English fascism. The international legal order is currently in a state of flux, with various legal outlooks and orders competing for dominance. If Scotland doesn’t better defend its’ legal identity, the structure of international human rights law will be weakened by Brexit.

      Epistemic discretion in constitutional law

      Abstract

      The problem of epistemic or knowledge-related discretion arises whenever knowledge of what is commanded or prohibited by the constitution is unreliable. The unreliability of knowledge and the resulting discretion are important aspects in the balancing of constitutional rights. Robert Alexy has, in his Theory of Constitutional Rights, laid down an analysis of epistemic discretion that appears to raise a number of questions.

      These concerns include the relevance of empirical and normative knowledge in balancing, the function of reliability in the Weight Formula, and the correlation between epistemic discretion of the legislature and judicial review by a constitutional court. This article highlights some of the problematic issues and suggests several modifications of and completions to Alexy’s analysis.

      https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/10/1/69/689866

    43. manandboy says:

      The concept of ‘a partnership of equals’ (to be preferred to ‘an equal partnership) is highly valued in Law, Commerce and everyday life. And yet, few ideals have been abused as much, as exemplified by the cruel Imperialistic abuse by the English Establishment of its colonies and neighbours, and, by the very high levels of divorce and separation, as well as by the epidemic of domestic violence and knife crime in the UK today.
      Add the contempt displayed by this generation of politicians towards their constituencies, particularly through lying and advancing their careers by corruption, and a clear picture emerges of how emaciated the principle of ‘a partnership of equals’ is in reality.

      Here in Scotland we have need to do something to restore the integrity of the partnership of equals intrinsic to the Act of Union – by proceeding without hesitation to Divorce.

      Scottish Independence. Justice demands it. Sovereignty empowers it.

      Mind-control delays it.

    44. Almond Chutney says:

      @Golfnut

      Come one man, we should stick to the facts. If Holyrood has the power to hold referendum’s now, THEN WHERE IS IT? Why does Sturgeon also say she will do this completely within the permission of the UK government? As far as I can see there has been no statement on this fact changing.

    45. Almond Chutney says:

      @Dan, don’t call me a britnat you blasphemous piece of shit.

    46. manandboy says:

      Well done, Ian!

      It’s a scandal that this material is not pushed Scotland-wide by the Scottish Government.

      Without any explanation as to why such Independence promotion is not done, and repeatedly, by the Scottish Government, then there is only one conclusion to be made. Either it would be unlawful, or, the SNP are not up to the job.
      After all, its only advertising. Any mug can advertise. It’s easy. Print it, paste it. Advertising works!

      Just ask ‘Led by Donkeys’.

    47. Tatu3 says:

      For all of those complaining Nicola is useless, doesn’t have a plan, ignoring us so important Yessers, doesn’t want independence, just wants loads of money. Read this –

      “It was a calculated risk to use the Yes movement to gain media response and capitalise on their presence in order to share Scotland’s intent with the entire world. It payed off, reaching millions and millions of viewers across Europe and beyond. Westminster couldn’t stop her message. And now our neighbours know everything they need to know about how Boris is treating Scotland…..
      This press conference appears to be the logical step in laying the foundation for Scotland to soon be recognised as an independent country. It is without doubt that the final recognition of our independence will come from the EU.”

      //theorkneynews.scot/2020/02/04/brexit-day/

      ..and give her a chance. It’s just turned February, there are many months of 2020 still to go.

    48. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s one that might help folk understand that British constitutionalism is now broken beyond practical use or repair. Without a respect for Treaty obligations and natural law, it is hard to see how the constitution can be considered to retain moral authority an legal force over Scotland. Certainly not sufficient to justify stripping Scotland of her history, and her residents of their legal identity. Full text.

      Political constitutionalism versus political constitutional theory:
      Law, power, and politics

      Abstract

      This essay juxtaposes political constitutionalism with a political constitutional theory that is mainly based on the work of Carl Schmitt. It claims that the former understands politics as consensual government and correspondingly the constitution as a set of principles and institutions that allows for the management of arising conflicts. Political constitutional theory, on the other hand, acknowledges the ever-present potentiality of conflicts as essential to the political nature of the constitution.

      The potential conflicts occasionally actualize as exceptional constitutional violations that, at the same time, reaffirm the sovereign constituent power that accounts for the radical democratic foundation of all constituted political and legal institutions. The position of occasional constitutional violations as expressions of constituent power is further illustrated in relation to the separation of powers as actualized conflicts between the judiciary and the elected branches.

      Exceptional constitutional violations that transgress the constituted limits of the respective branches of government are an indication of the political nature of the constitution, including the separation of powers, and not as an anomaly that constitutional theory cannot explain.

      https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/11/3/585/789372?searchresult=1

    49. One_Scot says:

      Lol, Yoons, what are they like.

    50. CameronB Brodie says:

      Right, I really must go this time. It’s a sad fact that the SNP’s potential to liberate Scotland, has been grievously undermined by an infiltration of those supporting ideological illiberal-ism, i.e. gender-ideology in law.

      Constituent power, cosmopolitan constitutionalism, and post-positivist law

      Abstract

      In the modern constitutionalist tradition, the concept of constituent power imagined to be held by “We the People” is widely held to be foundational for the legitimate authority of constitutions. There is, however, a jurisprudentially questionable structural nationalist/statist as well as voluntarist/positivist character in the way that “We the People” as constituent power is predominantly conceptualized in the modern tradition.

      I will contrast this modern understanding with a different, revised understanding of constituent power as an integral part of a revised understanding of constitutionalism. That revised understanding is both cosmopolitan and post-positivist, even if sovereign states and positive law remain central to it.

      In this revised account constituent power is vested co-equally in “We the People” and in “the international community.” Furthermore, constituent power is not foundational and uncircumscribed, but grounded in, constrained, and guided by the idea of a community of free and equal persons governing itself through the medium of the law as part of an international community.

      The idea of a community of free and equal persons governing itself within the framework of the state as part of an international community is prior to and gives meaning to the idea of constituent power.

      https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/14/3/697/2404483?searchresult=1

    51. Almond Chutney says:

      @Tatu3

      Just a bit of context though. Although support may be provided by the wider world, most newly independent countries will need to apply to the UN to take their seat at such UN conventions on world matters and so on. Only such memberships to the UN are granted and agreed between the UN security council on who receives ‘UN status’. Guess who’s one of the security council members? The UK
      So without a legal referendum taking place and turning a ‘Yes’, there is no shortcut to independence, said by the great Sturgeon herself.

    52. Dr Jim says:

      It must be my turn again to be hounded off this site because I refuse to agree with those who invent their own facts and apply them to what they invent others have said

      By these actions it proves once again the belligerence of those who demand other people behave in the way they want them to and if they don’t then they must be bad

      If these people are not Unionists themselves their behaviour demonstrates a remarkable likeness to those they insist they must get away from but strangely using the same language and tactics of those people they say they despise

      My personal opinions or feeling towards the First Minister of Scotland are as uninformed as everyone else’s who doesn’t know her, I merely pointed that fact out

      I like everyone else can only guess at a person’s thoughts because I don’t know what those are, but I can judge the actions of others, not the inactions, and this site and some who post on it seem more concerned with criticism of things they don’t know rather than things they do

      To use the Internet as a tool to insult others just because it’s anonymously easy is the cowards way and this site has its share of those

      I do not and will not share in the condemnation of others for something they haven’t done then invent my own reasons for why in order to reinforce that condemnation then insist others take part in it or be damned

      That’s teenage kids gang mentality and I’m awfully sorry if it upsets the kids but that doesn’t scare or intimidate me and it’s childish to suppose otherwise
      in fact to use the First Ministers words “I think I’ll manage to soldier on”

    53. Gary45% says:

      Dr Jim@2.11
      Don’t worry yourself, just keep doing what your doing.

    54. Liz g says:

      Nana @ 12.02
      Hi Nana, I hope you are well.
      It’s certainly an eye opener to just how deluded they are.
      Their wish for the EU to end/fail is just plain nasty…
      I expect that’s what they will project into us too when we’ve left…. Bunch O’ sad sacks really!

    55. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t know if folk remember me suggesting philosophy could take politics in a square go. Well here’s some applied philosophy.

      Brexit and the introduction of gender-ideology into law, are both examples of gross epistemic injustices. 😉

      Cultural Pluralism and Epistemic Injustice

      Introduction

      For liberalism, values such as respect, reciprocity, and tolerance should frame cultural encounters in multicultural societies. However, it is easy to disregard that power differences and political domination also influence the cultural sphere.

      In the age of colonialism, Europe controlled large parts of the world for more than 400 years. In this essay, I discuss cultural pluralism from this historical point of departure. In relation to Indian political theorist Rajeev Bhargava, I discuss the meaning of cultural domination and epistemic injustice and their historical and moral implications. Finally, I refer to John Rawls’s theory of political liberalism as a constructive approach to avoid parochialism and Western cultural domination.

      Culture is a broad and vague concept. In this essay, culture and cultural differences relate to questions of epistemic frameworks, religions, traditions, and political principles. It could be questionable to use such a broad concept of culture, but it does not pose a problem for my argument….

      https://content.sciendo.com/configurable/contentpage/journals$002fjnmlp$002f13$002f2$002farticle-p152.xml

    56. Liz g says:

      Almond Chutney @ 2.02
      But that seat on the security council will be very dependant on the Good will of Scotland.
      So it would be a bit counter productive to get to much in our way….. Not facilitating a short cut is one thing being belligerent about our right to self determination is quite another…..
      NATO will need to deal with Holyrood for it’s sea exercises,low flying training, 5 eyes ground stations and that’s before we even get to the neuks….
      Westminster should be careful how much it gets in our way…
      The people here will have a great deal of control over Holyrood after Indy…. Westminster might want to think on that!

    57. CameronB Brodie says:

      And this is what BritNats and WokeNats are blind to. Full text.

      Social-Epistemic Agency

      Abstract:
      In this dissertation, I argue for a unifying account of epistemic and communicative injustice. I do this by showing how these are both ultimately threats to our agency. More specifically, I argue that they are threats to our social-epistemic agency, a distinct kind of agency concerned with the ability to be self-determining in the social-epistemic domain.

      This agency is fundamentally valuable given the importance of being treated as someone worthy of inclusion in communicative and epistemic life. I argue that agency should be conceived of as a measure of our ability to actually bring about changes in the social-epistemic domain: our ability to alter the epistemic environment by contributing to enquiry, changing someone’s mind, learning from one’s teachers, occupying a desired social-epistemic role.

      Social-epistemic agency is dependent both on developing a tripartite set of agential competencies and on our treatment by others. These two components of social-epistemic agency come together to enable us to perform particular actions at particular times (e.g., testifying), and to occupy roles within the social-epistemic domain (e.g., as a union representative).

      I argue that social-epistemic agency is relational in two different ways. First, it is causally dependent on our relationships with others because our ability to develop agential competencies depends on our personal history of socialisation. Second, it is partly constituted by our relationships with other persons because our ability to actually exercise our agential competencies to bring about desired changes – i.e. to be agential – depends on the ways that others respond to us.

      I also argue that a notion of social-epistemic respect is necessary for understanding this kind of agency and the ways that we can be harmed through exclusion from social-epistemic life. Finally, using this relational account of social-epistemic agency, I address issues of silencing, epistemic objectification, online discourse, and intellectual humility.

      https://opencommons.uconn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=8176&context=dissertations

    58. manandboy says:

      Oil, Gas, Electricity, Water, Beef, Arable, Whisky & Gin, Fishing, etc, etc, etc.

      Scotland is only short of two things:-

      Self-belief, and self-government.

      I’d swap the rest for the last two.

      Scotland gets very little benefit from all the rest.

      England takes it all.

      While Scotland’s British Nationalists bend the knee, bow their heads, cowardice oozing from their pores, and muttering something about being unworthy, and apologising for not being born in England, before thanking the English for taking such care of Scotland even though we are so poor and can’t pay.

      Since 1707.

    59. CameronB Brodie says:

      Must go this time. Remember, epistemology is a fine Scottish invention that is at the heart of every realistic, critical, scientific theory.

      Why Social Epistemology Is Real Epistemology
      https://fas-philosophy.rutgers.edu/goldman/Why%20Social%20Epistemology%20is%20Real%20Epistemology.pdf

    60. Almond Chutney says:

      @Liz G, only in reference to where it was suggested that ‘holyrood has the power to hold referenda withough UK govt approval’.

      I’m honestly not trying to criticize points on ‘which I do not understand’, but it’s good to have a realistic debate because SO MANY factors are dependent on the very conversation regarding an indy Scotland.

      I’m just saying, the UK is a permanent security council member, along with China, Russia, France and the US. If Scotland left the UK, then the UK government will reprise the role of continuing state, as the governing body of ‘the UK’ has not changed, regardless if the name of the UK does. Thus maintaining it’s membership of permanence of the Security council. Effectively the UK could veto ANYTHING passed in any UN decision, even if it’s own removal of the council was debated.

      But to your point about NATO, I’m not so sure, that would be down to the US to either conform with the UK of against it. But I’m not 100% certain the US would pull out it’s investments from the UK in favour of Scotland, (especially if we’re dealing with Trump), given how outspoken the Scottish government is against the Trump administration, thus the US itself.

      Just a note – Again, I do not claim to know everything, but I do fact check what I post, so I welcome debate, just don’t be crass about it.

    61. Gary45% says:

      Lizg@2.18
      The whole reason for the hatred of the EU and the wish for it to fail, is as simple as a broken disunited EU will be far easier to control, that I am afraid to say is one of the many reasons the far right control America, Israel and now it looks like the southern part of Britain.
      Media bans, media blackouts and total rewriting of history and anything deemed as criticism of said governments.
      As I have said before look at the situation in Palestine, and see how “they” get away with it, a form of that control is on its way here, if not already?
      They change the narrative to blind the population, and then make you the criminal to hide their crimes.
      I know we have just elected a new WM government for 5 years, but surely the population, can and will rise up and throw the bastards out before then, when it becomes apparent that enough is enough.(Kick out the far right)
      Its time the world opened its eyes, because the same shit is coming their way.
      A world controlled by the far right = endless conflict = the far right making £zillions on war.
      Its a no brainer really!

    62. sassenach says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      4 February, 2020 at 1:58 pm
      Right, I really must go this time

      Promises, promises!!! Then immediately posts yet again! Gi’e us that ‘break’ you keep promising, eh?

    63. CameronB Brodie says:

      And this is the direction to follow if one supports law that is grounded in empirical reality and ethical reason.

      The relevance of Husserl’s phenomenological exploration of interiority to contemporary epistemology
      https://www.nature.com/articles/palcomms201766

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      sassenach
      Were you also a poor student when at school?

    65. CameronB Brodie says:

      sassenach
      If the likes of yourself didn’t have such a narrow attitude to politics, Scotland wouldn’t be getting pumped from both ends.

      ________

      Here’s some more social epistemology for those who are interested.

      Powerlessness and Social Interpretation
      https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.152343!/file/3.1fricker.pdf

    66. Breeks says:

      I just caught up with Gordon Ross Indy Car latest instalment.

      It’s pretty depressing if he’s correct. The SNP is continuing to play possum while Boris and the Tories turn off the taps in Holyrood and fund Scotland’s Local Authorities direct from central Government and channelled through Mundell’s beached whale Scottish Office.

      Apparently when life is really grim, and we’re reduced to eating dogs, and Scotland sees its beloved SNP Government and precious little Parliament having it’s legs and wings pulled off, we’ll be so cross we’ll finally take decisive action.

      That’s the plan… Pax Scotia, kinda like Pax Romana… the Romans made a lasting peace because everybody else was dead.

      For the love of god Scotland, whether you pursue a forlorn goose-chase to have a referendum, whether you opt for Pax Scotia and suffer deprivations to the point of rebellion, or whether we all take a brief wee sojourn through a stage of anarchy or sectarian conflict, KEEP THINKING through the gory bits to the end… Because when you go down every one of those grim and joyless paths, and keep going until their inevitable conclusion… you will arrive at the SAME destination.

      You will arrive at the same destination which Scotland arrived at in 1320, tired and exhausted by the endless war with English colonialism, avarice, and insatiable perfidious greed, and realise that Scotland must make the Claim and declare it’s right to exist, and have that claim accepted and recognised by the international community.

      In 1320 war weary Scotland appealed to the Catholic Church and Pope to recognise the legitimacy of Scotland’s right to exist as a sovereign Nation, and in 1328, that appeal was answered with recognition from God’s Authority on Earth, and further ratified with a Peace Treaty with England which declared Scotland should be “separate in all things from the kingdom of England, whole, free, and undisturbed in perpetuity, without any kind of subjection, service, claim or demand.”

      Scotland the sovereign Nation thus exists, in perpetuity, and is sovereign in perpetuity.

      Just as Scotland in the 13th-14th Century had to defeat and purge Scotland of Edward 1st colonialism and his Toom Tabard King, so too in the 21st Century Scotland must again defeat and purge Scotland of all Westminster’s colonialism, Toom Tories and emasculated parliament, and defeat it the way Scotland did in 1320.

      Scotland must stake its claim upon sovereign legitimacy and call on the international family of nations to recognise that Constitutional right, and defeat the colonial misadventure of an aggressor.

      The 1320 Declaration of Arbroath wasn’t the beginning of Scotland. Scotland had already existed for 400-500 years since the reign of Scotland’s first King Kenneth MacAlpine, but the Declaration of Arbroath was to become the Nation of Scotland summed up in words, and formally recognised on paper and thus properly constituting a lawfully sovereign Nation.

      700 years later, Scotland is in the teeth of the same dilemma. English overlords banging at the door demanding fealty they don’t properly deserve. Whether we sit down after a referendum, a plebiscite, a General Election, a rebellion, a war, a coup, a UDI, a revolution or even a raffle… the ONLY way to Scotland’s Sovereign emancipation from this dreadful Union will be to do what medieval Scotland did, and see the International Community recognising Scotland’s Constitutional legitimacy.

      We can avoid all of these nightmares, no wars, no coups, no riots or bombs, no economic collapse or contrived starvation… The Scotland of 1320 did all of that. They paid. They bought the freedom and legitimacy of Scotland’s Nation status with their blood, and sacrifice, but what won the day for Scotland was their inspired appeal to arbitration before God and Europe, International community of it’s day.

      All “we” have to do as inheritors of this wonderful gift from our forefathers is to oblige the International Community to “re”-examine the evidence and provenance of Scotland’s Constitutional origin and legitimacy, and then consider what actually happened to Scotland’s freedom Sovereign legitimacy, and decide whether it’s containment by a contrived convention in 1707 was legitimate or an act of piracy.

      Dunno about you, but I like my plan a lot better than the post apocalyptic masterplan which Gordon Ross was alluding to. Before we eat the dog and dig up the claymores, just phone the fkg lawyer eh? Phone the lawyer and arrange meeting with him and that nice Mr Barnier, and take along a copy of the Declaration of Arbroath, Treaty of Northampton, and the assorted Claim of Right Legislation through the centuries.

      If THAT fails, then it’s ploughshares into swords time…. but it won’t fail.

    67. kapelmeister says:

      Boris Johnson is the one who should be banned from the COP26 summit. After all, he is personally responsible for making the world overpopulation crisis even worse.

    68. jfngw says:

      @manandboy

      You will probably find that propaganda is a reserved matter just through the fact it will be classed as UK spending therefore there will be no Barnett and no budget available to the Scottish Government. This will be classed as public information material which the UK government can do, the SNP can’t because political parties can’t advertise, to my knowledge.

      Westminster has total control of all media and propaganda outlets.

    69. Almond Chutney says:

      kapelmeister says:
      4 February, 2020 at 2:55 pm
      Boris Johnson is the one who should be banned from the COP26 summit. After all, he is personally responsible for making the world overpopulation crisis even worse.

      This.

      While I’m not exactly bojo’s biggest fan either, you couldn’t make it up. Do people have logic here, or is gaslighting the common theme?

    70. Gary45% says:

      Chutney@3.07
      Are you for real?

    71. cirsium says:

      @Effijy, 12.28, @frogesque, 1.07

      Julian Assange, a journalist, is being held in arbitrary detention and tortured by the UK state. Are UK journalists now beginning to understand what Martin Niemoller meant?
      When the Nazis came for the communists,
      I did not speak out;
      As I was not a communist.
      When they locked up the social democrats,
      I did not speak out;
      I was not a social democrat.

      When they came for the trade unionists,
      I did not speak out;
      As I was not a trade unionist.

      When they came for the Jews,
      I did not speak out;
      As I was not a Jew.

      When they came for me,
      there was no one left to speak out.

      The treatment of Julian Assange is in violation of Article 2 of the Treaty of Lisbon and requires action under Article 7. While the UK was a member of the EU, what action did the EU take about this political prisoner and the breach of the EU treaty?

    72. Dr Jim says:

      Scotland’s First Minister will attend COP26 at the invitation of the UN as she has done on three previous occasions

      Herr Johnson can bluff and bluster and threaten but the more he does it the more foolish he appears, he has no authority over who the UN chooses to include in their conference

      My understanding is that Glasgow becomes neutral territory for the period of the conference

      The only thing Herr Johnson could attempt in his desire to exclude Scotland is to move the venue to England and try to play silly buggers there but my sense is the UN wouldn’t *allow* that and he’d look even sillier for trying

      Who knows maybe Johnson will be too feart to turn up himself and send Michael Martin Bormann Gove instead

      One way or another this is turning out to be incredibly embarrassing for Johnson and only control of the media will prevent the laughter being heard right around the world to the people who count in these things

    73. Almond Chutney says:

      Gary45% says:
      4 February, 2020 at 3:15 pm
      Chutney@3.07
      Are you for real?

      I am for real, please explain to me how BOJO, who has been UK PM for a matter of months, is personally responsible for making the world overpopulation crisis even worse?

      I am asking for clarification, before you resort to calling me some ‘imperial master’ for god knows why.

    74. jfngw says:

      Spotted this recently on twitter.

      ‘It’s dismaying sometimes that feminist women have become the gatekeepers of who can cross through the pearly gates of womanhood,’

      Pearly Gates – a fictional character from ‘The Wrong Arm of the Law’. Someone who pretends to be French but isn’t.

    75. Clapper57 says:

      Priti Patel Home secretary…..repeatedly said in an interview, post London attack at weekend, that the government would TACKLE ‘counter terrorism’ when she actually meant and should have said terrorism….not once did she say counter terrorism, not twice did she say counter terrorism but a multitude of times….all in the context of FIGHTING IT…

      Yes…that’s fighting…..FIGHTING…. COUNTER TERRORISM…Lol

      Terrorism – the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

      Counter Terrorism – political or military activities designed to prevent or thwart terrorism.

      Sooooooooooooooo we all knew how bad this Bojo/Cummings government would be Buuuuuuuuuuut…WTF…they are going to fight themselves and any military actions to ensure they do NOT prevent or thwart terrorists committing terrorist activities…

      And we thought Esther McVay, Nick Hancock and Dominic Raab were thick…well Hello Ms Patel welcome to the club…Get Brexit Done….domestic matters …not so much…clueless in WM indeed.

      If you want to see it…check out Colin Dunn’s twitter a/c via Michael Spicer spoof video….laugh …you may…or cry …or scream….classic case of someone clearly promoted to a role beyond their ability….perhaps she needs another jaunt to Israel…for some….’meetings’ nudge nudge wink wink…I mean FFS….

    76. Chic McGregor says:

      Anyone know who is behind the application for a new ‘Independent Scotland Party’ which is being registered at the Electoral Commission?

    77. jfngw says:

      @Clapper57

      Yes I think Mr Iannucci will need to change the title to ‘The Thicker Of It’.

      The low quality of the politicians intelligence within the cabinet is staggering. Meanwhile Donald Trump believes Paris is in Germany, no doubt to prove himself correct he will order Germany to annexe Paris and build a wall.

    78. Clapper57 says:

      @ Chic McGregor @ 3.52pm

      Priti Patel ????

    79. jfngw says:

      @Chic McGregor

      I don’t know but Jason Michael would be high on my list of possibilities.

    80. manandboy says:

      jfngw says:
      …… Westminster has total control of all media and propaganda outlets.

      I really appreciate that info, jfngw, I should have known the answer would lie with Westminster’s stranglehold on Devolution. In addition, I had fallen into the trap set by my own frustration & ignorance of the facts, and blamed some one close by so to speak, instead of actually finding out who the real culprit was. A lesson learned.

      Holyrood, like a Golden Eagle with the flight feathers of equality and democracy removed. Their long colonial history has enabled England to learn all the tricks of controlling a population.

      After a lifetime of conditioning under the Union, I am now of the opinion that the English Ruling Class is the most evil the world has ever known, though not of course, completely so. Lot of good people in England, past and present.

    81. CameronB Brodie says:

      Epistemological coherence and integrity are essential considerations for policy aimed at supporting social justice, and constitutional practice that is ethically and legally just. British constitutionalism lacks epistemic integrity and coherence with natural law. Subsequently, Britain is no longer a social democracy.

      Pragmatism, Holism, and the Concept of Law
      http://www.erasmuslawreview.nl/tijdschrift/ELR/2015/1/ELR_2210-2671_2015_008_001_002

    82. crazycat says:

      @ Almond chutney

      please explain to me how BOJO, who has been UK PM for a matter of months, is personally responsible for making the world overpopulation crisis even worse

      I read that as a joke, because he’s got too many children and maybe doesn’t even know how many.

    83. Dan says:

      @Liz g at 11:58 am

      Aye, contradictions and contortions abound. Certain yoons be playin’ a hybrid game of snakes & ladders and twister!

      They say “Scotland must stay in the UK union because unions are good”…
      But they then say…
      “The UK must leave the European Union because unions are bad”…

      Hud oan a fuckin moment! That looks suspiciously like they just acknowledged there is a difference in the types of unions, so they can’t then go with “Why would Scotland want to leave the UK union only to join the European Union”.

      Has nobody commandeered #ScotlandinEUnion yet? lol

      Almond Chutney says: at 1:38 pm

      @Dan, don’t call me a britnat you blasphemous piece of shit.

      Pfft, au contraire mon spicy pickled nutty ami!
      I proffer you exhibit A in my defence.

      Almond Chutney says: at 11:13 am

      Don’t delude yourselves, you’re not out of the woods yet.

      If you are not aligned with the dark forces of Scotland’s Imperial Masters, it would have been more prudent and less likely to be misinterpreted if you’d said “Don’t delude ourselves, we’re not out of the woods yet”.

    84. Liz g says:

      Almond Chutney @ 2.38
      Last things first…
      I’m not being “crass” Scotland can’t be held in the Union. Sooner or later it’s going to end it’s Treaty arrangements with England…
      If the doing of it causes harm to Scotland or her people by Westminsters hand, then, in the early years of independence it is likely that the people of Scotland who will have much greater control over who is in Government will not be minded to have a care for England’s interests.

      Which brings me to NATO….
      The NORTH Atlantic Treaty Organisation….
      After Independence all the North Atlantic territory of these islands will be Scottish and should the Neuks go…. Then Russia China and
      Potentially France have nae good reason to want to leave England ( which at that point will bring very little to the table ) it’s seat.
      Scotland will hold all the worth while strategic territory in that area….
      France has no obligation anymore to a fellow EU member because England won’t be one.
      In fact it’s likely Scotland will be an EU member by that point too….
      The US does like a voting buddy that’s true…
      But it also likes a foot in the door of the EU… Again no longer England providing that role, and while the ageing and worst case 4 more year’s President is nay friend to Scotland…. It’s no an entrenched position going forward.
      The US will be rid of Trump long before England could get back under the protections of the EU.
      The Five Eyes defence systems are based in our northern region, England will have nae real geographical reason to be included in that arrangement either.
      If all the territory available to NATO it’s our Highlands and Northern waters they use to practice in!
      Now yes it’s possible they would let England veto that arrangement but I doubt it.
      If England/Westminster want a decent defence arrangements going forward they need a Scottish Government that the people of Scotland will tolerate negotiating one and not a Scotland that’s in no mood to accommodate Westminster!

      So it seems to me that it’s in England’s interests not to allow Bawless Johnson and the British media to sour the relationship between Scotland and England going forward.
      And for many many other reasons to numerous to name here too!
      Which translates into respecting the democratic decisions of the Scottish electorate and ending this thing in a civil way!

    85. Republicofscotland says:

      I’m not a fan of the Matthew Wright radio show, but I was browsing radio channels when I came upon him discussing food standard that the US will impose upon us after a trade deal with Trump.

      Besides virtually no food regulations and meats/chicken washed in chlorine and injected with antibiotics, that we all know are now only partially effective due to over use. We have items such as peanut butter that are allowed to have seven segments of insects within the jars.

      Paprika, in which seven rat or rodent hairs are permitted. Wright went on to discuss UK farmers having to debase their products or for Westminster regulations to change to bring lower food standards into law for UK farmers to compete with US imports within the UK.

      It true what they say that you don’t know what you’ve got until its gone, and EU foods standards will be sorely missed very soon.

    86. Liz g says:

      Dan @ 4.17
      Thing is Dan…. We might be still in the woods.
      But England’s right in there with us and the difference is they can’t see their wood for looking at our trees… 🙂

    87. CameronB Brodie says:

      How can Scots law hope to be considered ethically just, when it does not appear concerned with the constitutional integrity of Scotland’s legal identity? Are there really no judges in Scotland who respect natural law and the Law of Persons? Is Scotland really so bereft of ethical reason.

      integrity and identity
      https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/53008/integrity-and-identity

    88. Liz g says:

      Republic of Scotland @ 4.19
      I can mind seeing something a few years back about the cases of food poisoning in America being at epidemic levels and it was their food standards that were directly to blame..

    89. CameronB Brodie says:

      One for Scotland’s judiciary, or the ones who appear to support English fascism anyway.

      Reclaiming the Epistemological Other:
      Narrative and the Social Constitution of Identity

      https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Reclaiming-the-Epistemological-Other%3A-Narrative-and-Somers-Gibson/c16ee673cce9984cb9aa30e57835cb653fd1741a

    90. Clapper57 says:

      @ jfngw @ 3.55pm

      Lol , jfngw ……let us also not forget Chris Grayling….spend spend spend….on fantasy ferries….pet name is now The Ferry Man…..

      “Don’t pay the ferryman,
      Don’t even fix a price,
      Don’t pay the ferryman,
      Until he gets you to the other side”….or not ,as was the case, with Grayling Hee Hee Ha Ha ( instead of Lol).

      As for Trump’s lack of European geography knowledge ….if he were in Paris it would not be his ‘Last Tango in Paris’ more, for him, a case of his ‘Last Tangoed in Paris’…Lol ( instead of Hee Hee Ha Ha).

      Have a good evening

    91. Phronesis says:

      Timing is everything.

      ‘MEPs will be briefed first-hand on the methodology, which should make EU accession negotiations more effective and give the enlargement process a new push.
      European Commissioner for Neighbourhood and Enlargement Oliver Várhelyi will present an amended enlargement methodology to Members of the European Parliament Committee on Foreign Affairs (AFET) on Wednesday.
      According to the current practice, the EU negotiates 35 “chapters” of the EU acquis with each candidate country, who are required to adapt their administrative and institutional infrastructures and to bring their national legislation into line with EU legislation, before they can join the Union’

      https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200204IPR71832/commissioner-varhelyi-to-present-revised-enlargement-methodology-on-wednesday

    92. jfngw says:

      @Clapper57

      Last Tango in Paris may be the perfect film for Mr Trump, but I don’t want to butter him up.

    93. Dan says:

      Worried about American trade deals?
      Simply Self ID as a dog and you’ll be fine. They are always eating stuff off the ground and licking arseholes, so a wee bit of germs or shit on yer food will be no problem.
      Plus in the sweety department I’m fairly sure Hershey’s makes what we already call dog chocolate.

    94. jfngw says:

      I see Jackson Carlaw is all starry eyed now about Brexit, it’s a great opportunity, he now believes. It’s going to just be like living in Brigayoon.

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, I’m aware that the law is of no interested to most folk, but that is why Scotland is getting pumped from both ends.

      What exactly is the state of theoretical verity of Scottish legal practice, and where does it obtain it’s moral justification?

      About conditional verity of legal consciousness

      The article is devoted to understanding and importance of conditional verity of legal consciousness that paves the way for perceiving unconditional verity that stays at the top of the formally logical knowledge and determines it.

      The current state of the Russian society, state, consciousness, culture, the necessity of working out the national idea, state-and-law ideology and corresponding politics, new geopolitical reality encourage further indepth study of legal consciousness, the perception of its theoretical verity, the uncovering of practical significance in providing foundation of the state-and-law life. According to the materialistic pattern, legal consciousness, like consciousness in general, is the reflection of the state-and-law and any other substantive world, the product of the process undergoing in a human brain.

      Its basis is formed by the knowledge obtained with the help of sense perception organs. The determination of verity is linked with the ideas and reasons which reflect substantive reality in an adequate way. Conditional verity is acquired with the sense perception, logical thinking, rational knowledge emerging in the definite historical surroundings and changes in accordance with the alterations of these conditions.

      https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/about-conditional-verity-of-legal-consciousness

    96. kapelmeister says:

      Duizendmaal dank(thousand times thanks) to the Frisian town of Leeuwarden for replacing the Butcher’s Apron with the Saltire on their avenue of EU flags.

      The UJ is seemingly about as popular round the world as Prince Andrew.

    97. Republicofscotland says:

      Looks like Bernie Sanders has been screwed out of his Iowa caucus victory speech, which sets the tone for Democrat nominees.

      No the Russians didn’t do it, not that they did it the first time around either. No it sounds to me as though Sander won Iowa, which sets the tone, and an app glitch has been blamed for the delay. Iowa is mostly made up of white, young liberal people, and in my opinion Sanders would’ve received a majority vote from them.

      The establishment in the US doesn’t want Bernie Sanders anywhere near the Whitehouse.

    98. scunner says:

      Seems our pal HYUFD (I prefer “FUD”) is over on ScotGoesPop, threatening to send the gunboats to deal with the Gibraltar situation and spewing loads of garbage about “Unionist” party percentages while desperately trying to counter the news that the polls are finally showing Yes marginally in the lead.

      Fit a bam.

      I know I previously said I wouldn’t frequent SGP as James Kelly had been going off on one re: idea of a Wings list party, but the latest polls are getting interesting and the rev’s “on a break” :).

    99. velofello says:

      @ Cameron B Brodie; Iam not disinterested in law but scanning through your attached article reminded me of an engineering lecture where stress was defined as strain on the subject material, and yes… strain stresses the subject material.

      Empathy, conscience, logic, in the application of the law seem reasonable guidelines, but when someone, some organisation declares “this is the law”, with scant regard to the guidelines, well, their law ain’t working. And that is how I regard Westminster with it’s unwritten constitution, and how I despair at the the SNP affording Westminster this seniority to declare “the law”.

    100. CameronB Brodie says:

      Are Scotland’s judiciary really blind to epistemic injustice? Will there really only be one legal consciousness in Brexitania? How do Scotland’s lawyers hope to retain moral authority, when they appear to consider themselves and Scots law subordinate to English legal consciousness and culture? Full text.

      After Hegemony? The Varieties of Legal Consciousness Research
      https://pure.york.ac.uk/portal/services/downloadRegister/61233859/After_Hegemony_The_Varieties_of_Legal_Consciousness_Research.pdf

    101. Dan says:

      @scunner

      Good spot on HYUFD watch, but…

      Listen, and understand. That Germinator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

    102. CameronB Brodie says:

      velofello
      We view Westminster similarly. I’m reconnecting with critical legal theory and critical social theory, in a way that I’m unprepared for myself. I really don’t know where all this stuff is coming from, but I think it intellectually destroys the case for British nationalism. It also casts an unfavorable light on the antipathy of Scotland’s judges, towards constitutional and social justice. 😉

      AFTER LEGAL CONSCIOUSNESS

      Abstract
      Legal consciousness as a theoretical concept and topic of empirical research developed to address issues of legal hegemony, particularly how the law sustains its institutional power despite a persistent gap between the law on the books and the law in action.

      Why do people acquiesce to a legal system that, despite its promises of equal treatment, systematically reproduces inequality? Recent studies have both broadened and narrowed the concept’s reach, while sacrificing much of the concept’s critical edge and theoretical utility. Rather than explaining how the different experiences of law become synthesized into a set of circulating schemas and habits, the literature tracks what particular individuals think and do.

      Because the relationships among consciousness and processes of ideology and hegemony often go unexplained, legal consciousness as an analytic concept is domesticated within what appear to be policy projects: making specific laws work better for particular groups or interests.

      https://web.mit.edu/~ssilbey/www/pdf/after_legal.pdf

    103. Bill McLean says:

      Scunner – for pity’s sake let HYFUD stay on Scot goes Pop – those on there are making a good job of humiliating the twerp!

    104. Golfnut says:

      @ Almond Chutney.

      Pretty clear you have feck all knowledge about anything, just an opinion, and that’s entirely based on some sort of idea that somehow the RUK is going to be something other than America’s bitch.
      Whatever the FM’s plans are for a referendum, it does not alter the fact that the referendum Bill, given ascent by the crown, is now law. Scots Constitutional law, and if bawjaws disagrees with that he has to do that through the courts.

    105. Liz g says:

      Well, well, well…
      Looks like the problem with the climate change conference is that Westminster want to book the science centre and Nicola’s already been and gone and booked it….
      Reads like Glasgow City Council are locked in to the booking too.
      She’s offering them a deal, ( an apparent speciality of Westminster ) to share the space …. 🙂
      Westminster aren’t happy about that though… Oh dear, never mind what a pity…
      LOL

    106. SilverDarling says:

      First outing for EVEL on an NHS funding Bill that has direct consequences for SNHS via Barnett consequentials’

      The Deputy Speaker discounted the SNP votes even though she agreed there were implications.

      DWP Minister said he’d meet up with Martin Docherty Smith for a deep fried Mars bar when he earlier had a question about UC.

      Jeez it is hard to bear sometimes.

    107. Gary45% says:

      Imagine a country which produces food which is basically shit, which causes food poisoning, which in turn gives said countrys medical companies profits from supplying drugs to combat food poisoning, which in turn provides lawyers with work suing said companies, which in turn keeps the shyster conglomerates in business, keeping the wheels on the shysters machine going round and round.

    108. jfngw says:

      @SirverDarling

      Just another item to add to the lack of democracy in the UK that can be used in any international case. What functioning democracy stops a countries politicians from voting on their own financial funding.

      Now we have a parliament where only MP’s from England can vote on Scotland’s funding. This is our future if we do nothing, budget decided by England, spending by Westminster’s place men/women at the Scottish office.

    109. CameronB Brodie says:

      One with the aim of helping the emancipation of Scotland from reactionary and illiberal legal orders, and their minions. Looking at you, Scotland’s judiciary. 😉

      Full text.

      I Fought the Law and the Law Won? Legal Consciousness and the Critical Imagination

      Abstract
      The study of legal consciousness within socio-legal studies entails a focus on the ordinary, quotidian and, crucially, almost invisible life of law in society. To study legal consciousness is to study the taken-for-granted and not-immediately-noticeable: the background assumptions about legality which structure and inform everyday thoughts and actions.

      This article examines legal consciousness through the lens of the cultural theory of Mary Douglas. The application of her grid-group analysis offers important insights into the dimensions along which legal consciousness may vary. In doing so, it sheds light on an under-studied feature of the legal consciousness landscape: collective voices of dissent.

      We explore, via a secondary data analysis of radical environmental activists, a legal consciousness which expresses particularly clearly a collective rejection of the authority of state law. The analysis reveals a complex and multi-faceted legal consciousness where a rejection of state law may be coupled with a gaming approach towards it for collective aims, and can be fuelled by a faith in legality above or beyond state law.

      It also points to the organizational vulnerability of dissenting collectivism and a corresponding affinity between a legal consciousness of collective dissent and one of fatalism. Our analysis allows us to critique and refine Ewick and Silbey’s influential account of legal consciousness. These analytical and theoretical insights point towards a future research agenda, which maintains the legal consciousness tradition of focusing on the structural qualities of law while avoiding the pitfalls of a theory of general legal hegemony.

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274172067_I_Fought_the_Law_and_the_Law_Won_Legal_Consciousness_and_the_Critical_Imagination

    110. CameronB Brodie says:

      What is the legal consciousness of Scotland’s judiciary? Why are our judges not defending Scotland from English political authoritarianism? Ambivalence towards authentic culture and a misogynistic world-view would be my guess.

      Studying Legal Consciousness:
      Building Institutional Theory from Micro Data

      https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_DRS1_100_0733–studying-legal-consciousness-building.htm

    111. HYUFD says:

      Liz G Once you have a permanent seat with a veto on the UN Security Council as the UK does it cannot be removed e.g. Russia took the seat when the USSR dissolved. Plus given Sturgeon has said she does not want nukes Westminster would just move them to England if it had to protect its position in international defence

    112. HYUFD says:

      Scunner Yet not one poll has Yes over 50% once Don’t Knows are included and as Yougov has shown most Scots oppose indyref2 for the next 5 years

    113. CameronB Brodie says:

      Keep pumping out that cultural misogyny, lad. You’re doing a grand job Toryboy. 😉

      Unearthing Bureaucratic Legal Consciousness:
      Government Officials’ Legal Identification and Moral Ideals

      Abstract:

      The legal consciousness of citizens receiving the law has been extensively explored but little attention has been paid to the legal consciousness of individuals applying the law. This article draws on interviews with forty government officials in the Refugee Review Tribunal of Australia to address this concern, analysing how government bureaucrats think about law.

      In doing so, it identifies a series of underlying ideals informing the officials’ legal identification narratives. It presents a heuristic that positions bureaucratic legal identification in relation to broader moral ideals, demonstrating that as government officials’ identification with law increases so too does their idealisation of intellect and information processing.

      Conversely, as the officials’ identification with law decreases, their idealisation of experience and truth verification increases. These findings provide new insights into how law works in government, revealing bureaucratic legal identification as structured according to broader moral values, and thereby unearthing legal consciousness’ latent metacognitive dimension.

      http://eprints.keele.ac.uk/2870/1/IJLC%20RICHARDS%20Unearthing%20Bureaucratic%20Legal%20Consciousness%2C%20accepted%20non%20publisher%20edition.docx

    114. Liz g says:

      HYUFD @ 7.39
      Then that all fine then…. England will keep its seat and take is neuks and you keep taking what every is that helps ye believe that…..
      As to the polls…. Also fine… If they are as bad as you say then there shouldn’t be a problem having Indy Ref two.
      You should write to Bawless Johnston and reassure him of it.
      Still begs the often asked question…. Then why are you here?

    115. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      If there is a god, please let me have a dream tonight of London being nuked, in vivid detail. Then wake up and find it wasn’t a dream.

      Thank you amen.

    116. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      The United Kingdom no longer exists once Scotland leaves, no guarantee then of your UN seat. I suppose you could call it the Unitary Kingdom of Lesser Britain and NI.

    117. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      O/T…

      Ian Brotherhood – message for you in ‘off-topic’….

    118. Dan says:

      @HYUFD at 7:41 pm

      Just an observation, but if you are so secure in your knowledge and beliefs that the Kingdom of Scotland doesn’t want to end the union with your wonderful Kingdom of England, then why the fuck do you spend so much of your time posting on Indy sites.

      Surely your time would be better spent and certainly more productive if it was spent improving your own local environs, especially if you fancy standing for election again.
      There’s always plenty work needing done, plus local voluntary work goes down a storm with potential voters. Think globally, act locally n aw that.

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      @HYUFD
      How many unnecessary deaths is it now, due to your party’s ideologically driven social austerity. Would you deny austerity set the social conditions that produced Brexit, Toryboy?

      Legal Consciousness: Some Observations

      This article argues that US studies of ‘legal consciousness’ have much to offer UK socio-legal studies. It is, perhaps, surprising that so little attention has been paid to this set of understandings.

      I seek to rectify that imbalance in the transatlantic relationship by outlining legal consciousness and its critiques. I then draw on homelessness applicant interview data to discuss their ‘legal consciousness’, illustrating the importance of the value of dignity; how they make sense of their decisions; and the spaces in which legal consciousness may be produced. The study is a limited examination, but it enables us to question the assertion that welfare applicants ‘know the law’ and (ab-)use it.

      ‘…[T]he legal consciousness of the welfare poor is a consciousness of power and domination, in which the keynote is enclosure and dependency, and a consciousness of resistance, in which welfare recipients assert themselves and demand recognition of their personal identities and their human needs.’1

      http://www.duncankennedy.net/documents/Toward%20an%20Historical%20Understanding%20of%20Legal%20Consciousness.pdf

    120. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, wrong link. The link above is to the master document. “Toward an Historical Understanding of Legal Consciousness”. This is the link that goes with the above abstract.

      https://lawforlife.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/legal-consciousness-some-observations-97.pdf

    121. CameronB Brodie says:

      The amount of ‘stuff’ I’ve forgotten about is really quite scary, though what I appear to be able to put together forms a powerful legal argument for independence, IMHO.

      N.B. replace “Eurocentric” with “British constitutionalism”, and you get the drift.

      P.S. You want to see what I’ve lined up next. I’ll have my dinner first though so others get a chance. 🙂

      Postcolonial Indigenous Legal Consciousness

      IV ELIMINATING OUR COGNITIVE IMPRISONMENT
      Eurocentrism and colonial thought still imprisons colonized Indigenous peoples and Indigenous lawyers. Eurocentric thought has dreamed imaginary societies that generate our cognitive prisons. Eurocentric law and punishment sustained them. These noble visions, however, have remained flawed and the legal systems they have created have trapped Indigenous peoples.

      Eurocentric thought has not been able to live up to or implement its dreams. Europeans and their colonizers have been unable to defend their visions on intellectual merits; instead they have sustained them by legalized force. Neither the Europeans’ word=worlds nor their life-worlds have created human solidarity. They have created comfort for the colonizers and poverty for the Indigenous peoples.

      The economic gap is still growing. This weakness has created and now sustains the violent world in which we live. Indigenous thinkers have long noted these facts. As early as 1777, a Cherokee commented about Eurocentric thought:

      Much has been said of the want of what you term “Civilization” among the Indians. Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your law, your religion, your manners and your customs. We do not see the propriety of such a reformation. We should be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices than with hearing you talk about them or of reading your newspapers on such subjects.35

      Similarly, a century later, in 1880, a Lakota stated that, “[w]hite men have education and books, and ought to know exactly what to do, but hardly any two of them agree.”36

      Unfortunately, the modern boundaries of our imprisonment are both cognitive and physical. For the first and fragile generation of legal warriors, diplomats and ledger drawers, it is the context of our struggles. We need to understand our ideological prison before we can talk about strategies and tactics for escape, emancipation or remedies.

      This is especially important to Indigenous lawyers since we seek to practice law, law reform, and empower our communities and peoples within the toxic parameters of our cognitive prison of our legal consciousness.

      https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/17100/1/ILJ-1-YoungbloodHenderson.pdf

    122. jfngw says:

      @Liz g

      There is no point in trying to have a discussion with HYUFD, he is not here to discuss, he is your actual troll. He will appear every day posting the same nonsense no matter what the previous responses were.

      I’ve found just mocking him the best antidote. I thought the worst we could see of Tory intellect was Liz Truss (there is such a cornucopia of choice in this Tory category), then HYUFD turned up.

    123. HYUFD says:

      Jfngw As I said when the USSR ceased to exist Russia as the largest state left remaining kept the UN Security Council seat, the People’s Republic of China also took the Chinese seat ahead of Taiwan. Once you are a permanent member of the UN Security Council with a veto power you cannot be removed

    124. HYUFD says:

      Dan I do that too plus the day job but I am a Unionist as well

    125. Liz g says:

      Jfngw @ 9.11
      I know… You’re right… Lol
      I just had time today 🙂

    126. HYUFD says:

      Cameron B Brodie No it was loss of sovereignty coupled with Blair’s failure to follow Germany and impose transition controls on immigration from the new Eastern European nations joining the EU that caused Brexit.

      In 2010 we were spending 47% of gdp and taking only 35% of gdp in tax, that was not sustsinable

    127. CameronB Brodie says:

      HYUFD
      That is pure black-white duck speak you troll.

    128. Liz g says:

      Jfngw @ 9.13
      EG…. I’ve the time to tell him that…
      As we kept being told in 2014, “the UK is the member state.
      We’ve never agreed that it’s the Continu’er state.
      If we both claim Continu’er the U.N. Will need to choose and it will choose the state that best serves it’s strategic interests I’d wager.
      But something tells me he won’t be able to see that!!

    129. Golfnut says:

      @ Hyufd.

      There a first time for everything. America is going to screw your country, thats England just in case your confused about that.

    130. CameronB Brodie says:

      As if the media, such as the BBC, haven’t been selling neo-liberalism for decades, to the extend of supporting the cultural acceptance of austerity. And weren’t selling (white) English/British nationalism in the run-up to Brexit. They’ve eased off a bit now as, democracy has been crushed in Britain. Or so the Tories appear to think.

      This isn’t what I had lined-up, btw. Full text. 😉

      Media definitely do matter: Brexit, immigration, climate change and beyond
      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1369148118799260

    131. Col.Blimp IV says:

      The radio just said that the SRU are applying to host British Lions rugby match at Murryfield for the first time ever – a desperate attempt from Tavish Scott and his new chums to make us think we have some kind of status in this Britain thingy?

    132. Dr Jim says:

      Now even 5% of Tories say Scotland is entitled to a referendum, that’s big for Tories
      24% of Liberal Democrats say yes to a referendum
      39% of Labour voters say yes ” ” ”

      They’re all starting to see the light and guessing at the future

    133. terence callachan says:

      HYUFD…showing your lack of accountancy and taxation knowledge there

    134. terence callachan says:

      HYUFD…is a troll

      Specially chosen by wings it stops Indy supporters arguing with themselves when they get bored

      Now they all concentrate on HYUFD when bored

      Good ploy

    135. Dan says:

      @HYUFD says at 9:14 pm

      Dan I do that too plus the day job but I am a Unionist as well

      Grand stuff lad. Could you possibly furnish us with a link to your social media platform so I, along with others, can keep up to speed and share all your industrious endevours?
      One really has to publicise and promote oneself these days so the electorate can see the genuine commitment and the values one might bring to their constituents’ lives if one hopes to gain their support, and more importantly their votes.

      That said I reckon you’ve definitely got the makings of a textbook politician seeing as you swerved the first part of my post by failing to answer why you post on so many Indy sites if you know and believe the union is so secure…

    136. manandboy says:

      http://archive.ph/wip/QhTNt

      Brexit language undergoes a complete makeover to suit the Vote Leave Team in 10 Downing Street, and to create a narrative for the next eleven months which will distort completely the negotiations between the United Kingdom and the European Union.

      The lies from PMJohnson are about to get much much bigger.

    137. Dan says:

      Oh textbook stuff from Nandy as she grabs the unionist record player and spins up the good old OIAG track. lol

      https://archive.ph/0PVkE

    138. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      No you are making the assumption that the non existent UK will become the successor state. Until the rest of the world agrees with you then it is unknown. But to be honest you are welcome to it, the UN is mostly a talking shop anyway. Strange it is full of unelected bureaucrats, the type you left the EU to get rid of.

    139. Dan says:

      Nandy on Scottish Independence.

      This is an issue that affects the whole of the United Kingdom and I think it’s a decision that has to made together.”

      “I think people in Scotland have a huge interest in this and a huge stake and their voices have to be heard and they have to be substantially involved in driving that decision.

      Hmm, I can’t recall her being so supportive of Scotland’s views being heard in other important situations… such as us having any input on the chosen ingredients and flavour of her English “Brexit”.

    140. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Mahatma Nandy. Also known as ‘The Naan’.

    141. Effijy says:

      Nandy is typical of Labour- useless and knowledgable about nothing.

      No clamour among Scots for independence just a mandate voted for in
      Our own parliament, just having 80% of all Scottish MPs, just a growing petition
      With over 520,000 signatures, just opinion polls showing over 50% in favour and
      Just Marches with over 100,000 people going through our main cities.

      So Scots listen to one fifty-ninth of our Westminster parliamentary contingent
      and suck it up?

      Of all the Bills past in Westminster, the Scottish contingent influence one in every 200 passed.

      So that’s her way forward for us, vote in England’s parliament where you don’t matter one F***.

    142. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dan
      It’s funny you should mention marketing, Dan, as I’ve been thinking my gravatar image could do with a re-boot. I was thinking along the lines of “evil spock”, or “Dr. Evil”, though I’m open to suggestions.

      Anyhoo, this is what I had lined up earlier. 😉

      CRITICAL LEGAL STUDIES AND THE POLITICS OF SPACE
      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/143860887.pdf

    143. ElGordo says:

      I’m thinking more Dr Emmett Brown 🙂

    144. HYUFD says:

      LizG That would require Scotland to keep the nukes, a prerequisite of P5 status

    145. HYUFD says:

      Dr Jim Yet a majority of Scots oppose indyref2 this year or next year if the SNP fail to get a Holyrood majority and even if the SNP get a majority a plurality do not want indyref2 immediately
      https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1222871398516916224?s=20

    146. CameronB Brodie says:

      ElGordo
      Perfect. 🙂

    147. mike cassidy says:

      Dan

      How very sporting of Nandy to allow that Scotland should be substantially involved in deciding whether it should be an independent country.

    148. Dan says:

      @Cameron

      With your recent postings a suitable new avatar image might represent the separation of powers, with yourself in the middle throwing metaphorical uppercuts and haymakers to get their attention and hold them to account.

      Feels kinda disappointing at the moment for a supposedly sovereign people to be failed by so many of our highly remunerated brightest and best that are meant to represent, manage, and hold our society together in a healthy state.

      Here’s a hypothetical.
      Our society continues to degrade and fail to a near apocalyptic state due to the negligence of those that are paid to keep it running smoothly.
      The situation is desperate, so you and your partner decide to make the long risky journey to a safer place where it’s hoped a new start to a better civilisation can be made.
      The car has 5 seats so you have 3 spare, there’s a line of folk wanting to come with you, they include:
      A mechanic / engineer
      A politician
      A doctor of the human body (good oldskool type that doesn’t want to cut healthy sex bits off folk’s bodies)
      A lawyer
      A botanist / food grower
      A women with an expensive looking crown on her heid

      Who’s the 3 brightest and best now that you choose to give a seat to?

    149. Liz g says:

      HIUFUD @ 11.02
      How can you be sure there’s not a majority in the Scottish part of the United Kingdom to do just that,keep the neuks and keep the U.N. seat!
      There may very well be….
      And if your going to claim there absolutely isn’t such a majority… You just made the case for Indy.

    150. CameronB Brodie says:

      I hope this fits the new identity. This is certainly a consciousness Scotland needs to connect with, but we are ill-served by our media, who seek to obscure contextual meaning. Full text. 🙂

      The Consciousness of Reality

      Abstract

      Finally, the human mind faces its own nature. By extending the information-theoretic paradigm, the informational nature of consciousness is uncovered. This gives rise to the very first formal description of consciousness.

      In attempts to bridge the chasm between the objective and subjective, scientists and philosophers have opened up to the unspeakable. The nature of consciousness, as has been suggested by ancient Eastern and shamanic traditions, is necessarily universal and primal. The notion of spirituality is creeping back into science. Moving towards a more empirical analysis, the enigma of intelligence is discussed, arising in decentralized systems and even in inanimate structures.

      Then, the surprising therapeutic effects of psychedelics is discovered, next to a myriad of transcendental planes of being, accessible to pure consciousness. Moreover, peer-reviewed studies are appearing in the physics literature describing mind-matter interactions in double-slit quantum experiments – a long suspected connection by many pioneers of quantum mechanics. As the cracks in the current edifice of science continually grow, the new information-theoretic paradigm is embraced.

      Beginning with an information ontology, a radical participatory ontology is hinted at. In essence, the human mind is witnessing the most radical paradigm shift in its own history. The well-served and previously glorious materialistic and reductionistic scientific worldview is yielding to a novel scientific conception of subjective consciousness and objective reality – and their unexpected intimate kinship.

      https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-03633-1_14

    151. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dan
      We certainly have a problem of leadership and accountability, IMHO. I certainly don’t feel kinship to the English pseudo-religion of Euroscepticism. And I don’t support an SNP leadership that views British constitutional law as continuing to exert legal force over Scotland.

      Guide on Article 9 of the
      European Convention on Human Rights

      Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
      https://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Guide_Art_9_ENG.pdf

    152. CameronB Brodie says:

      The system is still holding my first post with this new identity, so just to highlight there is a chapter describing the “The Consciousness of Reality”, @11.27pm. Hopefully it will clear in due time.

    153. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      The Yougov poll is less than informative as it doesn’t seem to include any raw numbers just percentages. Those that vote this year are unlikely to also vote for next year whereas those opposed would vote no in both. This could make those wanting a vote within two years over 50% (potentially but unlikely 75%) without the raw numbers and how people actually voted in each question it seems designed to deceive. Asking a multi-faceted question is the best way to prove something isn’t wanted.

    154. Famous15 says:

      Hyufd.

      I can well imagine someone who held the exalted position of Chairman Warwick Uni Tories might find politics nearer home so boring and infantile he has to infest the blogs of Scottish independistas but why us?

    155. HYUFD says:

      Liz G In 2014 55% of Scots indeed voted to keep the nukes and remain part of the UK and a permanent member of the UN Security Council

    156. HYUFD says:

      Jfngw Raw numbers here, 2014 No voters opposed indyref2 at every question asked, from 80% opposed this year to 64% opposed in the next 5 years.

      Yes voters backed indyref2 at every question asked, from 70% who backed it in 5 years time to 57% who backed it this year.
      https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/cqi01wjj1n/Internal_ScotIndependence_200129.pdf

    157. Liz g says:

      HYUFUD @ 12.22
      Yes it did, and so it might vote to keep them all to itself in the next wee while.
      As the other partner….
      Do you think England can keep it’s neuks or it’s seat if Scotland voted to keep them!
      Are you that sure France,China,Russia and the US won’t decide to back us…..?
      Because don’t be forgetting the neuks can be moved not easily right enough…. But the 5 Eyes arrangements must stay in our Highlands and the consent for the neuks to travel through our waters is our decision too…

    158. Dr Jim says:

      Faslane, 30 miles from my back door, enough destructive power to take out the whole of Scotland and down past Carlisle and would kill most of Scotland’s people instantly and the radiation fallout the rest and depending on the wind quite a lot of the north of England too

      Michael Fallon ex Sec of state for defence on STV interviewed by Bernard Ponsonby outside the shipyards in Galsgow talking about Kim Jong un at the time stated “Kim may feel secure having nuclear weapons but having them also makes you a target*

      Bernard Ponsonby pounced on him like a Leopard and said “So that makes Scotland a target then?” Michael Fallon fluffed and harrumphed and his aid intervened shouting “No more questions, that’s it, no more questions” and they literally ran away with Bernard Ponsonby still posing the Question as they ran “So Scotland’s a target secretary of state?” “Are we a target sir?”

      That sequence was played on STV news at 6pm and again at 10:30pm

      But as long as London’s safe, well that’s all that counts isn’t it

      Except London is not safe now, not from this year it’s not, nor anywhere else in England and the Fuhrer knows it and that’s why he’ll arm as many police as can hold a gun and oh yes he’ll increase police numbers alright, but just for London, and it’ll make no difference whatsoever

      The Fuhrer Johnson is a cowardly buffoon searching tonight for a way to exclude Scotland from it’s own COP 26 Conference, BBC 2 reported earlier that he has no respect throughout the rest of the world as it is, and what little to none he does have is dropping by the minute

      He may have to exclude himself from COP26 and send Baron Von Gove the Martin Bormann of the cabinet to take over

      These are ugly men prepared to do ugly things to get their way, but it may turn out a little different to what they hope

    159. jockmcx says:

      Buck rodgers englands 21’st centuary,one more time!

      oops sorry thats jim rogers.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY2W_Okl9lE

    160. HYUFD says:

      Liz G Of course while the Trident nuclear submarines are based at Faslane they are refitted at Davenport and much of the time are on patrol anyway.

      Dr Jim However having nuclear weapons lets Putin, Kim Jong Un know if they attack the UK it will be a case of risking mutually assured destruction, so they will stay away

    161. twathater says:

      Peter A Bell has a new post up

      https://peterabell.scot/2020/02/04/diy-mind-laundering/comment-page-1/#comment-14476

      I posted a comment and would be interested on opinions

      Peter I apologise before my comment , Paul Martin has put forward a very eminent suggestion which many people I would think would agree with , indeed your response indicates that you tentatively agree with the suggestion , now the parts for my apology , you then follow that with the disclaimer that you are not putting your name forward , my opinion is why the hell not

      I have read many of your posts which you opined that the YES movement doesn’t need a leader or a figurehead I agree with that opinion , but what WE REALLY REALLY need is a strong collection of well known and respected independence bloggers and vloggers to form a group to liase authoritively with the SNP , and I do mean authoritively , because in my opinion the SNP are governing adequately but are failing in promoting , driving and encouraging the forces of independence , the SNP SG can get on with the job of governance whilst the Indy Scot group collectively can expose the lies , disinformation and outright deliberate bias shown by the broadcasters and MSM

      I am very supportive of another indy political party being formed , we DESPERATELY need to overcome and defeat the threat to independence posed by the yoonionist cabal at Holyrood , even if that means that they only stand candidates for the list seats , plus it would ensure the SNP’s feet are held to the fire and we could maybe get rid of some of the deadwood

      The point I’m trying to make is that we DESPERATELY need someone to fire the starting pistol and gather these individuals and if not you WHO ??? you are famous (or is that infamous ) within indy , you are well kent and respected , you won’t be bullied , you won’t listen to urine or bovine excrement , we need this and we don’t have time to lose

    162. Dr Jim says:

      Mutually assured destruction so nobody will attack us says the idiot Nazi Toryboy from Epping

      Well if you’re so happy about tossing a coin over some Mutual Insurance,ask your own party to park the fffking thing outside your house you arrogant imbecile

    163. jockmcx says:

      This was fun…sad but fun

      Piers and Terry Christian Have a Heated Debate Over If Britain is Finished | Good Morning Britain

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOagvfIpD38

    164. Dr Jim says:

      SNP appoints new director of communications

      Murray Foote

      I’m not sure what to say or think about that, although he does know all the sh*tehawks in the Scottish media and famous enough in the media to get on the telly if they want him to, so yeah, probably good, in fact maybe very good and at least he can speak up and tell the truth on the telly about the VOW now that we’re paying him and not the Labour party, in fact again come to think of it Labour will be well pissed off

    165. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Robert Sutherland,

      In your pitiful response, you say you are not a troll, then you go on to troll me in an abusive manner.

      You write your factless opinion completely lying about the references I do actually make to what the author of this website has written.

      YOU FAIL to counter any of the vast amount of research Stuart Campbell has done on this problem about the current SNP leadership.

      Then in an extraordinary piece of political ponsi schemitis and jaw dropping arrogance, you assume some sort of ownership of either this website or the collegiate body on it. I quote YOUR drivel words…

      “Otherwise WE are going to draw our inevitable conclusions.”

      Is that the Royal “we”; the delusions of grandeur “we”; or is it your implied “we” the majority of this website? I don’t expect an answer as your sort never do answer direct questions. In fact are you actually a cowardly politician – on here posing as some form of hallowed opinion former?

      Sutherland away you go. Stop annoying me and others.

      And for the sake of whichever god you worship, please fleck off somewhere where you can moan with others of your ilk.

      For absolute certainty, the dissonance between what you dribble out of your mouth onto the keyboard and your spittle flecked monitor matters not one jot you impotent little cretin.

      The fact is, like many voters, I loathe politicians that lie.
      You are fine when electors complain about lying Tories or dishonest Libs and Labs, but when an SNP crook gets caught out, dial up Robert Jabawakie Sutherlands rightious indignation dial to green ink 143%.

      I also dislike trolls. Now go away and bite the ankles of someone else.

    166. jockmcx says:

      Independence from the UK grows louder in Scotland

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJtgIFjbJeg

    167. jockmcx says:

      Actor Hugh Grant in 2014 before referendum,

      “A lot of Scottish relations. A lot of Scottish blood. Not that you care, but please stay, Scotland.”

      and after 2019 GE,
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNYPF_LW0M

      We telt ye that hugh, in 2014.

    168. jockmcx says:

      yes orkney 2014

      What is wrong with the status quo?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwZcQ478gK4

    169. jockmcx says:

      What does the Brexit vote mean for Scottish independence?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iaf7AdQydsk

      This comment was posted under the video(please read it)

      Tamas Marcuis
      1 year ago (edited)
      During my time in Scotland working for a research and analysis company I was forced fairly unwillingly to seek answers to subjects related to independence. My main area is customs and treaty obligations. An area I worked in with the Lithuanian government during the period before and after the republic’s accession to the EU.

      My first examination was to the cause and history of the demands for autonomy in Scotland. It revealed a very long standing level of support and a steadily rising one. Clients wanted me to say it was a short term burst that would fade away. Clearly they were culturally predisposed to that claim and open to anyone who would give them that answer to their question, I the deliverer of unhappy news. Polls that covered the question from the 1960s till 2013 showed a clear cultural shift towards independence. The underlying trend of support form around 10% in the 1960s to around 50% by 2013. So slightly less than 1% per year. 0.8% as an average. The death and birth rates in Scotland line up to imply that as one generation dies away they are being replaced by people more likely to support independence. A generational shift.

      A social effect of such shifts is that as an attitude approaches becoming the majority view, they opposing view becomes more aggressively resistant. This can be even strident if the institutions of the country feel an existential threat to their position. In Scotland this was seen in the actions of the media, wealthy business class and established political parties. All rules were thrown aside in a campaign to protect their status as dominant entities. The behaviour of the media shocked even me a person who grew to adulthood in the USSR and experienced a blanket of state sponsored propaganda. If anything I found the British media somewhat crude.

      Soviet media already knew we did not trust them and acted accordingly whereas the British media was blatant. They seem to show even now an expectation of acceptance of their statements as unquestioned fact. It was annoying to have clients show me headlines from newspapers requiring that I show them a hardback copy of the UN Conventions on Treaty Law. Though within a few months I had a enough information compiled I was able to produce an internal bound document full referenced with excerpts of the relevant documents, that refuted virtually all news paper and TV stories. I could predict from the headlines what answers to repeat yet again with reference to a particular page.

      There is no doubt in my mind that Scotland will forcefully push for independence again in the medium term. Even without clever manoeuvres by the SNP the underlying support will increase for independence. As it becomes the majority opinion the yearly rise may increase as the class segregated nature of Scotland will place people still supporting the UK in a minority within their community. The human desire to align with their group could produce an up surge likely to panic the UK establishment. That will be a dangerous point that could see the UK government egged on by their local supporters to think violence could crush their opponents.

      I have seen a foolish belief that the desire for independence is an invention of the SNP rather than that party being a product. The actions of the so called unionists seems to imply they believe that destroying the SNP and simply refusing to allow the question of Scotland’s future to even asked, will end the matter for good. If there is a more efficient means of creating the circumstances for serious civil unrest I do not know them.

    170. jockmcx says:

      And stop shit stirring!

      Just vote yes when the time comes,and it will.

    171. North chiel says:

      Interesting post “ jockmcx@ 0510 a.m.

    172. jockmcx says:

      T’is that!

    173. jockmcx says:

      Now if only Rev Stu would apply for an snp membership like
      he knows he should!

      Would’nt that shut them all up…ho ho

    174. jockmcx says:

      Keep the snp honest Rev

    175. Stuart MacKay says:

      This, https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a-purity-spiral/, is actually an interesting read for two reasons: first you can see how the ‘woke’ faction in the SNP will lead to its destruction (a bit flame-baity to say that but read it and you’ll see why) and also why diversity of opinion in the Yes movement is actually it’s greatest strength.

      Sorry for not providing an archive link, archiving appeared to throw a popup that would block you from reading it.

    176. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      According to the BBC web site there is no facility in the UK for the production of LNG.

      Could somebody tell me what goes on at Mossmorran and what gets pumped into tankers at the Mosssmorran terminal.

    177. Effijy says:

      Radio Shortbread just had the brass neck to suggest Scottish MPs
      Should not have been allowed to vote on the English NHS Budget yesterday?

      The rule being if it affects Scotland then they get to vote.

      So if NHS in England cut their budget, freeze their budget or sell it to Trumpland
      The Barnet formula automatically applies it to Scotland.

      There is no question, doubt or grey area here. It affects Scotland so we get to vote on it.

      Westminster walks us further into Orwell’s 1984 every day.
      PS last year- March the English Health Secretary finally agreed that some weed based drugs do
      Indeed help certain medical conditions although classed as illegal drugs.

      He promised they would be made available now as he spoke to a mother risking jail and borrowing
      Above her means to bring to only comfort available to her young son.

      You guessed it. They use this rehearsed term constantly now, Tory ministers are
      Working very hard but a drug company was looking to charge too much?

      Other countries already use it?
      Other companies make it!
      A single mother is accessing it and paying for it.

      Get these immoral corrupt fascists out of Scotland now!

    178. manandboy says:

      A very big thanks to jockmcx, not so much for the video, but most definitely for posting the comment from Tamas Marcus which deserves the widest possible readership in Scotland, and indeed throughout the rUK.

      I was personally disappointed that the video did not address these two questions :-

      1. Why has the reported support for Independence remained virtually unchanged in the face of major political changes in the UK which common sense indicated would result in a rise in support?

      2. Why is there such a relatively high level of support for leaving the EU among SNP members?

    179. GSGL says:

      GUS1940
      LNG is liquid methane, Mossmorran exports LPG and ethylene. The UK doesn’t export LNG because we import lots and lots of it.

    180. Dan says:

      @twathater says 1:43 am

      Motivation to address the 2021 elections might be spurred on if one imagines the next Scottish Parliament were to include individuals like this…

      He intends to stand for election, as a Labour MSP, in Paisley in 2021.

      https://caltonjock.com/2018/12/19/all-you-need-to-know-about-unionist-rudeboy-andrew-skinner-the-guy-from-haghill-who-made-it-good-then-cocked-it-up-by-joining-scotland-in-union/

    181. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      There is no raw numbers except the sample size in your link, no indication of how many actually answered each question. Percentages are not raw data. The structure of the poll is designed to deceive, if it the wanted a proper result they would have asked to select which one of the scenarios they supported not have them vote on every one.

      The important point is independence is winning.

    182. iain mhor says:

      @Stuart McKay 8;16am

      Knitting? I did bite and it was indeed interesting – cheers.
      I had to laugh at the irony of the UnHerd team photos though – the diversity polis will be after them lol!

      Speaking of diversity, I have noticed ‘diversity’ today means ethnicity and sexual orientation, not diversity of thought.
      Diversity of thought is often is tied to social status. Not many grunts in politics or ‘levers of power’ in any organisation. Probably just that – their diversity of thought.
      Ach well, it was probably ever thus. The rabble useful to wrest power but frankly, best keep them from the silverware.

    183. iain mhor says:

      Murray Foote eh?
      Poacher turned gamekeeper, or better to have him in the tent pissing out, than pissing in? Meh, time will tell.

    184. Daisy Walker says:

      A suggestion O/T, I propose that from now on we refer to Westminster/UK rule, etc as, ‘England’s Government at Westminster’, and on eyebrows being raised, keep repeating that with 85% of the vote there, it will always be England’s interests that are served.

      We have been very, very civilised up until now, about keeping the word England, or English, out of the equation (rightly so), but lets put blame, at blames door now, and call a spade a shovel.

      The media in particular do not like this – it has long been the tradition of the British Establishment to hide England’s sins behind the Union Jack/UK, British – terminology.

      Just a wee thing – but if we all do it, every time, England’s Government at Westminster (EGAT) winnae like it.

    185. Famous15 says:

      I can perfectly understand a person being a Unionist “because my great great great grandad fought at Balaclava and died holding aloft the Union Jack” or even a supporter of STI riven William of Orange “because he was Donald Trumps great etc grandad and I love him to bits, his best bits” but I cannot understand someone remaining a Unionist when their leader thinks they are vermin.

      Stockholm syndrome rolled up with Munchausen by proxy does not begin to explain it.

      Scotland is not unique and though slightly more wealthy than most and often brighter and has more of nature’s bounty than perhaps deserved, the fact is it is all going for us to become dull and normal and independent nation again.. Or livelier if you wish but dull and normal is a good stating point for me.

      Well! Why?

    186. David P says:

      Thanks to hackalumpoff for his links.

    187. cirsium says:

      thanks to
      @Stuart Mackay, 8.16
      for posting the link – thought provoking and timely.

      @jockmcx, 5.10
      for posting comments by Tamas Marcuis.

    188. manandboy says:

      AT THIS RATE, WHERE WILL WE BE IN ANOTHER 5 YEARS?

      Please take time at some point in your day to consider the wholly unforseen change, for the worse, in the UK, which has taken place since Indy2014, and do you honestly think that it is going to get better under this shambolic, lazy, nasty and undisciplined Prime Minister and Government?

      Now then, in addition to believing in the sovereignty of the Scottish people, staying positive, avoiding negativity, joining a Yes group, maybe even joining the SNP, and practicing being an independent person, consider, in addition, what you can best do to achieve Scotland’s Independence.

      Have a good day.

    189. Colin Alexander says:

      I agree: Join the SNP and campaign within the SNP to rehabilitate the SNP as the party that fights for Scotland’s sovereignty.

      Get rid of Sturgeon and her woke colonial devolution administration.

      Return the SNP to the reason for its creation:

      Scottish sovereignty / independence.

    190. cirsium says:

      O/T – UK Strategic Command (UKStratCom) has appointed two BBC officers as Non-Executive Directors. According to UKStratCom, appointing the BBC’s chief technology officer to its board will “ensure that the joint forces are the best prepared in the world”.

      What has happened to the fiction that the BBC is an independent broadcaster? How can it be impartial if it is working with the UK’s armed forces? Best prepared for what?

    191. Republicofscotland says:

      So London Labour leader hopeful Lisa Nandy has come out and said that the SNP shouldn’t be allowed to take part in UK debates. Nandy who has form on SNP matters, recently hinted that the UK government should treat Scots in a similar fashion as to Spain does with Catalonia.

      Beating up voters, tear gassing them, and imprisoning their democratically elected leaders on trumped up charges is how Spain went about it.

      We must exit this undemocratic, unfit for purpose union soon.

    192. Republicofscotland says:

      Former Daily Record editor and Vow architect Murray Foote’s Damascene Conversion has come full circle, as he becomes the SNP’s new Head of Communications at Holyrood.

      We openly welcome anyone whose seen the light.

    193. Republicofscotland says:

      Scots and Welsh MP’s blocked from voting on NHS England Funding bill, which comes under EVEL.

      However the outcome will have a knock on effect on both countries NHS. The Welsh and Scots MP’s wanted to vote to increase spending on England’s NHS.

    194. Republicofscotland says:

      Arsenal FC Chairman Chips Keswick donated £5000 to Alister Jacks election funds. He donatrd thousands of pounds to Fluffy Mundells as well.

      Jacks other donors include Scottish Tory Treasurer James Stewart, who gave him £2500 pounds and £7,500 pounds to Fluffy.

      Known liar Lib/Dem MP Alistair Carmichael received £10,000 pounds from arms dealer Sudhir Choudhrie. Choudrie is on an Indian government blacklist of people suspected of corrupt or irregular practice.

      Scottish Tory MP Douglas Ross, received £5000 pounds from the Scottish Unionist Trust Association and the Stalbury Trustees.

    195. manandboy says:

      Murray Foote, a grade A collaborator with the Occupying Forces of Unionism. Responsible for his significant part in the loss of Independence. Now Senior Communications Officer at SNP Holyrood. Nice of the SNP to grant him a full pardon and a handsome salary to boot. He is treated better than the Yes Movement.

      Damascene conversion or double agent.

      The SNP leadership have been fooled before.

      The Independence Movement will require some persuasion, through evidence, over time, before they will be convinced.

      Meantime, hardly endearing, is it.

    196. Effijy says:

      Radio Shortbread really going for Scotland Shite at everything on their new bulletins.

      Child Care Bad, Mental Health Bad, Ship Building Bad,
      Extensive reports on everything bad.

      Switched off a they moved on to a story about a lady mountain climber.
      I just know she is going fall and be killed and SNP Being Bad caused it.

      Is that true or did you hear it on the BBC.

      LBC debating good things about BBC licence fee? FFS

    197. jockmcx says:

      Nicola Sturgeon has not let me down,if she does i’ll let
      u know!

      However mud wrestling with nonentities,like kezia,ruth and
      willie wonka is not enough at this stage,in my humble
      opinion.

      But then i could’nt do that job and definately not an snp
      mp’s job.

      There is someone around this place who could have a big role yet to play though…

    198. Dan says:

      @Effijy

      Take it Radio Shortbread didnae go large on the story from doon south vowing to introduce improvements in the wake of a damning independent inquiry into how rogue breast surgeon Ian Paterson was able to go on performing unnecessary operations for years.

      The Paterson Inquiry which published 15 recommendations and uncovered a “dysfunctional” healthcare system that failed patients.

      Interestingly when reading about this matter I notice Spire Healthcare mentioned which some may recall from a few months back.

      https://twitter.com/JeanHatchet/status/1202625649032224768

    199. Daisy Walker says:

      Michael Foote eh? Hmm not convinced.

      Far better if they could persuade Hugh Grant to join us.

    200. Republicofscotland says:

      The YES DIY movement is organising a indy march Saturday March 14th. The interesting thing about this march is that its in London.

      Organiser Heather Dickson wants to take the fight to Boris, the march leaves from Regent Square at 12 noon and will march to Westminster.

      Johnson might get a shock looking out of Number 10 and seeing thousands of folk waving Saltires.

      Check the National newspapers YesHub page for more coming details.

    201. Republicofscotland says:

      Sinn Fein are ahead in the polls in Ireland, with Fine Gael slipping, along with Fianna Fail, the latter parties have dominated Irish politics for decades.

      Change could be on the way.

    202. mike cassidy says:

      Just in case you missed Notsopriti Patel declaring war on counter-terrorism.

      https://twitter.com/MrMichaelSpicer/status/1224619601738137600

    203. Republicofscotland says:

      The condescending attitude from Westminster towards all things Scottish just keeps coming, SNP MP Martin Docherty-Hughes raised concerns over the delay of Universal Credit to Will Quince DWP minister.

      Quince replied I’m very aporoachable, “We could even share a deep fried Mars bar together.”

      The comment caused shocked noises to come from the SNP benches.

    204. Now I have seen it all Murray Foote being allowed a with the SNP you could not make it up at a tlme when the members are questioning the SNP commitment to our freedom ???the SNP remove all doubt by doing this .Well all I have to say is Fool me once etc., etc., ps should have read allowed a job with the SNP

    205. mike cassidy says:

      So you think you’ve got problems with the BBC.

      Comedian refuses to appear on ‘anti-British’ BBC

      http://archive.is/g8zfz

    206. CameronB Brodie says:

      We simply need leadership that understands and respect the rule-of-law. The current lot appear ignorant of the law, particularly the Law of Persons and the principle of universal human rights, so are unable to adequately defend Scotland from authoritarian English nationalism. The current leadership offer false hope and saps all vital energies. All those who retain faith in British constitutional law, pose a direct threat to Scotland’s future integrity.

    207. Republicofscotland says:

      The ultra unionist STV news at lunch time carried four stories. Care in Scotland bad, Freguson shipyard bad, homelessness bad and childcare bad.

      Every single story aimed at attacking the Scottish government. How I loathe STV in general.

    208. CameronB Brodie says:

      Just to clarify who “we” are. I was referring to independence supporters, rather than SNP members. I’m not a member of the party, which is probably why I’m able to assess their performance dispassionately and with a respect for Natural Law.

    209. Fireproofjim says:

      republicofscotland@2.02
      The BBC has exactly the same four stories.
      Anyone might think they were coordinated.

    210. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not exaggerating when I suggest the current leadership fails to respect the rule of law. This is because their legal consciousness accepts contemporary British constitutionalism as retaining legal force over Scotland. It doesn’t, largely due to British constitutional law and practice lacking coherence and compatibility with international human rights law.

      I just want someone in a position of influence to start protecting my human rights from authoritarian and expansive English nationalism

      Vertical and Horizontal Perspectives on Rights
      Consciousness

      https://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1485&context=ijgls

    211. CameronB Brodie says:

      Unfortunately, I simply can’t have faith in a party that appears happy to reject the legal significance of biology. Full text.

      The Ethics of Consciousness Hunting
      How fMRI has become an ethical obligation.

      When Adrian Owen, a neuroscientist at the University of Western Ontario, asked Scott Routley to imagine playing a game of tennis, any acknowledgement would have been surprising. After all, Routely had been completely unresponsive for the 12 years since his severe traumatic brain injury. He was thought to be in a vegetative state: complete unawareness of self or environment.

      But, as Owen watched Routley’s brain inside a functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scanner, he saw a region of the motor cortex called the supplementary motor area—thought to play a role in movement—light up with activity. When he told Routely to relax, the activity ceased. And when he asked Routley to imagine walking around his house, he saw clear activity in the parahippocampal gyrus—a region of the brain that plays an important role in the encoding and recognition of spatial environment….

      http://nautil.us/issue/64/the-unseen/the-ethics-of-consciousness-hunting

    212. Jack Murphy says:

      Thanks hackalumpoff for your link at 6:39 this morning which led me to this short clip,Murray Foote former Editor of the Daily Record saying:

      https://tinyurl.com/v5rah3h

      It’s a few weeks old, but news to me and perhaps to new readers of Wings Over Scotland.

    213. CameronB Brodie says:

      This is the sort of science the current leadership appears to reject. If you reject biology as a fundamental component of the human condition, it indicates a lack of respect for natural law and the law of persons. Such a legal consciousness is incapable of effectively defending human rights.

      Brain and Consciousness Research Center
      https://tmu.pure.elsevier.com/en/organisations/brain-and-consciousness-research-center

    214. CameronB Brodie says:

      And just because I know there will be many minds that are closed and unaware of reality. If you support gender-ideology in law, you can not support the principle of universal human rights. Simples

      Flesh of the Law: Material Legal Metaphors

      Existing legal metaphors, even the predominantly spatial and corporeal ones, paradoxically perpetuate a dematerialised impression of the law. This is because they depict the law as universal, adversarial and court-based, thus ignoring alternative legalities. Instead, there is a need to employ more radically material metaphors, in line with the material turn in law and other disciplines, in order to allow for law’s materiality to come forth.

      I explore the connection between language and matter (the ‘flesh’ of the law) through legal, linguistic and art theory, and conclude by suggesting four characteristics of material legal metaphors.
      https://westminsterresearch.westminster.ac.uk/download/163b99b0dccca0e36d0d4d555a52d982009c9beee33f816202577353018c197b/1654426/APM%20-%20Flesh%20of%20the%20Law%20FINAL.pdf

    215. CameronB Brodie says:

      And if your legal consciousness accepts British constitutional law as retaining force over Scotland, you simply aren’t capable of defending Scotland from (white) British nationalism.

      Borders, Territory, Law
      https://www.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/pais/people/vaughan-williams/publications/nvw_borders_territory_law_ips_dec_08.pdf

    216. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Yet again, on today’s Daily Politics on BBC 1, an SNP MP is confronted by the Once In a Generation quote – it’s all the Tories have left.

      Surely, it is time the SNP told every one of their representatives who is on TV or radio: “when they come up with OIAG, you immediately counter with: “Margaret Thatcher said a majority of SNP Scottish MPs was grounds for a referendum.”

      I am absolutely certain, once they hear what the Blessed Margaret thought, even the thickest Tory will immediately stop using the OIAG argument. To disagree with the Iron Lady – that’s hermeneutics, and indeed, heresy, to today’s Tories.

    217. CameronB Brodie says:

      Contemporary British constitutionalism treats Scots like African Americans before emancipation. As such, indigenous Scottish lawyers who stand under British constitutional law, lack proper respect for Scotland’s legal identity. Full text.

      Law And The Modern Mind: Consciousness And Responsibility
      In American Legal Culture

      https://digitalcommons.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3100&context=cwbr

    218. CameronB Brodie says:

      Does being Scottish actually equate to being a subordinate form of Englishness? That certainly appears to be the perspective of Scottish lawyers who remain happy to stand under British constitutional law. Scotland simply can’t rely on such colonised minds.

      Narratives of Personhood: The Various Shades of the Enlightenment
      https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/narratives-of-personhood-the-various-shades-of-the-enlightenment/

    219. twathater says:

      Watched bbc politics at 1pm which had Alison Thewliss SNP on along with 4 1/2 brutish nationalists , she was like bambi caught in the headlights re the SNHS ,nae fight , just allowed herself to be steamrollered over , nae wonder Stu has lost interest in the sheep

      Dan upthread thanks for your link to boris’s expose of the haghill loyal brit

    220. Pete says:

      CameronB Brodie
      I thought you had left!!
      I only pop in here once in a while.
      I see you are still spouting your pretentious rubbish.
      I think you must have a problem.
      Maybe you’ve forgotten to take your meds.

    221. Mike d says:

      Twathater ,We need an SNP member in the mould of Terry Christian doing the talking. Someone on here earlier provided the link to him on TV with piers Morgan and that Tory a***hole Mark Francois discussing Brexit. He was outnumbered 4 to 1 but fair play to him, he did’nt let those pr**ks get a word in edgeways.

    222. Mike d says:

      Member should have read politician.

    223. CameronB Brodie says:

      This is the sort of legal consciousness I strongly advise Scottish lawyer learn some self-respect from. Continuing to stand under British constitutionalism, suggests they are content to stand under authoritarian totalitarianism. That’s what happens when your mind is colonised by BritNat ideology.

      “The law will make you smart”: Legal consciousness, rights rhetoric, and African American identity formation in Massachusetts, 1641-1855
      https://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3093&context=dissertation

    224. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pete
      Like I see you’re still a moron. 😉

    225. Colin Alexander says:

      Sturgeon must go!

    226. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pete
      Fill your boots lad. You might then be recognisable as human, and worthy of legal respect. 😉

      Consciousness and Moral Responsibility

      Abstract

      Cognitive neuroscience and psychology provide a great deal of evidence that our actions are often shaped by information of which we are not conscious; some psychologists have concluded that we are actually conscious of very few of the facts we respond to. But most people seem to assume that we need to be conscious of the facts we respond to in order to be morally responsible for what we do.

      Some thinkers have argued that this naive assumption is wrong, and we need not be conscious of these facts to be responsible, while others think it is correct and therefore we are never responsible. This book argues both views are wrong. It sets out and defends a particular account of consciousness – the global workspace theory – and argues that this account entails that consciousness plays an especially important role in agency.

      We exercise sufficient control over the moral significance of our acts to be responsible for them only when we are conscious of the facts that give to our actions their moral character. Further, our actions are expressive of who we are as moral agents only when we are conscious of these same facts. There are therefore good reasons to think that the naive assumption, that consciousness is needed for moral responsibility, is in fact true. The book suggests that this entails that people are responsible less often than we might have thought, but the consciousness condition does not entail that we are never morally responsible.

      Keywords:
      Moral responsibility, consciousness, psychology, neuroscience, global workspace theory, agency

      https://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780198704638.001.0001/acprof-9780198704638

    227. Republicofscotland says:

      “Fireproofjim says:
      5 February, 2020 at 2:20 pm
      republicofscotland@2.02
      The BBC has exactly the same four stories.
      Anyone might think they were coordinated.”

      My thoughts as well Jim, Clyde 2 radio station similar approach.

      We need to keep calling them out for what they really are Londons mouthpieces.

    228. Republicofscotland says:

      “Colin Alexander says:
      5 February, 2020 at 4:31 pm
      Sturgeon”

      Funny thing Colin I was thinking the exact same thing about you. I’m sure others in here were thinking that too.

    229. Mike d says:

      Stv get their licence from London, nuff said.

    230. Mike d says:

      CameronB Brodie. Scottish lawyers=unionist lawyers.

    231. twathater says:

      @ Mike d 4.27pm no Mike we NEED politicians who are passionate and forthright to CONSTANTLY challenge any and all liars who spout the same shite against us daily , where can we find them , my post upthread possibly gave a hint where they are but nobody on here appears to share my belief in our bloggers and vloggers

      Stu Campbell , Peter A Bell , Paul K , David Hooks , Jeggit , Barrhead boy , Lesley Riddoch , Gordon Ross and many many others , ALL of them dedicated independenistas and every one of them working their socks off to gain our independence , but they have to be kept outside the tent whilst we have SNP reps who CONSTANTLY FAIL to challenge ANYTHING or to even provide information to the undecideds to help them believe Scotland NEEDS independence

    232. Mike d says:

      Socrates 3.24pm. Socrates, Thatcher said a majority of SNP mp’s was grounds for a declaration of independence.

    233. CameronB Brodie says:

      Mike d
      Ain’t that a fact. Unfortunately, that means Scotland is left undefended from expansionist English nationalism. We need critical legal thinkers to liberate Scotland, not practitioners of British constitutionalism who deny the legal significance of biology and nationhood. Full text.

      Human Consciousness: Where Is It From and What Is It for

      Abstract

      Consciousness is not a process in the brain but a kind of behavior that, of course, is controlled by the brain like any other behavior. Human consciousness emerges on the interface between three components of animal behavior: communication, play, and the use of tools. These three components interact on the basis of anticipatory behavioral control, which is common for all complex forms of animal life. All three do not exclusively distinguish our close relatives, i.e., primates, but are broadly presented among various species of mammals, birds, and even cephalopods; however, their particular combination in humans is unique.

      The interaction between communication and play yields symbolic games, most importantly language; the interaction between symbols and tools results in human praxis. Taken together, this gives rise to a mechanism that allows a creature, instead of performing controlling actions overtly, to play forward the corresponding behavioral options in a “second reality” of objectively (by means of tools) grounded symbolic systems.

      The theory possesses the following properties: (1) It is anti0reductionist and anti-eliminativist, and yet, human consciousness is considered as a purely natural (biological) phenomenon. (2) It avoids epiphenomenalism and indicates in which conditions human consciousness has evolutionary advantages, and in which it may even be disadvantageous. (3) It allows to easily explain the most typical features of consciousness, such as objectivity, seriality and limited resources, the relationship between consciousness and explicit memory, the feeling of conscious agency, etc.

      Keywords:
      awareness, communication, embodiment, objectivity, play, tool use, virtual reality

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5924785/

    234. Mike d says:

      Twathater, that’s what I was implying, Christian was passionate and stood his ground. When I watch our SNP mp’s being interrogated ie interviewed, I’m shouting at the telly, tell the truth like it is.then I just turn it off before I need a new telly.

    235. Mike d says:

      Republicofscotland 12.59pm. If after a remark like that ‘ we could share a deep fried mars bar together ‘ on a question on universal credit. That’s when the SNP should walk out, then the world and the PSB’s will see the respect in which they and Scotland are held.

    236. Mike d says:

      Or maybe our proud yoons will say its just banter and we have no sense of humour. A bit like us being classed as vermin.

    237. Clapper57 says:

      I see Lisa Nandy Mp from the party with just ONE MP representing ONE part of a city in Scotland is playing t’gallery….again.

      A wannabe leader ( Lol ) of the UK uber alles Labour party confirming that she sides, yet again, with the Tories in agreeing that those MP’s from the SNP, whom the Scottish electorate chose to represent them in a UK wide parliament, should be silenced and given no platform on political debate shows or anything related to UK matters as they are NOT a UK wide party….it’s like she thinks WM is a parliament for ‘local’ (English) people and NOT for us Scots ..really…who knew…like everyone Lol….is she now a closet Indy convert…Lol

      Meanwhile Lisa has free rein, as an MP from an English constituency with NO connection to ANY Scottish constituency, to diss the Scottish government and the SNP , who BTW have been ELECTED by Scottish constituents….how very Socialist of her…so in a ironic way she is continuing the Corbyn slogan of “For the Many (English voters) not the Few (Scots)”….in that English voters get a opportunity to see and hear THEIR candidates in political debates BUT Scots politicians from a specific party (SNP), who could be elected by Scottish people, are to be censored….does seem like this will be as successful in Scotland for Nandy’s Labour as it was for Corbyn’s Labour……NOT…..Lol

      So does that mean she also thinks Scotland is a non topic to be discussed in these political debate shows….or will she and those Union uber alles peeps , who like her, will be given free rein to continue to voice skewed uninformed opinions and biased perceptions about Scotland….AND where there will be no one, from the SNP to defend their Unionist lies and slanted views which , let’s be honest, are presented solely in their guise as representatives of the Union uber alles.

      There seems to be an urgency in the pattern now developing within the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour parties in that they think if they can shut out , silence and dismiss those SNP political representatives elected by Scots that somehow this will make the case for Independence go away…..where as the reality is that it does the opposite because if proves to Scots that we are indeed being ignored, disregarded, disrespected and dismissed as part of THEIR UKnotOK….

      Frankly it seems a strange strategy to adopt to try and convince the undecided among us Scots to believe that somehow by blackballing the SNP from any political debate within the UKnotOK that this is , according to the great Socialist Nandy a democratic and fair policy….she, Nandy, may say that she was not endorsing violence against Scots who want independence in her deliberately ambiguous and open to interpretation comments on the Andrew Neil show…. BUT she is clearly and most unambiguously , in her recent outburst, endorsing a prohibiting of Free Speech for a Scottish political party, that is the SNP, and thus restricting the choice and opportunity for Scots to hear ALL candidates in GE debates etc…within a UKnotOK that people like her want Scots to remain part of……but solely on HER and other Unionist parties terms……is she a closet Nazi….Lol

      Nandy, like many of her Labour colleagues, either abstains on Tory policies or votes with them…so why the f*ck would we Scots want to elect THEM….sit on the fence plastic MP or MP who has definitive position….Hmm that’s a hard one…NOT.

      Indeed more and more for Nandy’s Labour and Johnson’s Tories it is very much the case of ‘There is more that unites us than divides us” when it comes to Scotland’s politics and the Scottish people…and that is a fact.

      Frankly it would have been easier for me in this comment to have just written….Nandy GTF….but most people have already said that …..Lol

      Does anyone remember what JK Rowling said pre Indy Ref 2014 in her little ditty about how we, Scots, will be able to “dictate terms” …talk about words coming back to haunt you and life coming at you fast…..so who was right and who was wrong…well…..wisnae us for sure…….quelle surprise…NOT.

    238. Dr Jim says:

      England can’t be a democracy and a Monarchy, so what are they?
      They claim to be both, but that’s impossible, so which one are they pretending to be, and by pretending are they not perpetrating a fraud on the people

      So who could you charge with treason if you wanted to, and how, is it the Crown the Parliament or the people who elected the government of the parliament

      It’s a pretty crafty set up confecting a system of governance answerable to no one based on the rule of inventing your own laws as you go along to thwart any implementation of previous laws that might prejudice yourself

      That’s the very definition of dictatorship

      Scotland gave America a constitution and a basis for regulation, they ffffed it up by themselves but nevertheless Scotlands ideas on democracy were sound or they wouldn’t have orignally used them, England rejects open democracy and ignores Scotlands laws and original constitution, I don’t believe that’s what was signed up to in 1707, there’s been a material change of circumstances

      England is ignoring International law as agreed by the United Nations over the Chagos Islands and is on course to ignore laws agreed by the European Union as well

      Again the very definition of a Nationalist rogue dictator regime yet if I decided to bomb the shit out of them I’d be a terrorist, but if America did the same they be the good legal guys enforcing the laws of the rest of the world for the benefit of all

      I have no money or power so I can’t be legal, it’s like I’m a Scottish Palestinian, I can only exist by other peoples let

    239. callmedave says:

      Posted by Scottish Skier on Scot goes pop.

      Yougov uk scots sample:

      50% SNP
      28% Con
      11% Lab
      7% Lib
      2% Grn

    240. CameronB Brodie says:

      Scottish lawyers need to wake up to the fact that contemporary British constitutionalism lacks any respect for the international rule-of-law. Full text.

      The Oxford Handbook of Political Science
      Law and Society

      Abstract and Keywords

      The study of law and society rests on the belief that legal rules and decisions must be understood in context. Law is not autonomous, standing outside of the social world, but is deeply embedded within society. While political scientists recognize the fundamentally political nature of law, the law and society perspective takes this assumption several steps further by pointing to ways in which law is socially and historically constructed, how law both reflects and impacts culture, and how inequalities are reinforced through differential access to, and competence with, legal procedures and institutions.

      This article discusses the key characteristics of a law and society perspective, some of the major research contributions of this field, and recent developments in law and society that hold particular promise for scholars of law and politics today. In particular, it examines three broad areas of law and society scholarship: disputing, decision making, and legal ideology and consciousness.

      Keywords:
      law, society, politics, disputing, decision making, legal ideology

      https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199604456.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199604456-e-015

    241. callmedave says:

      I believe that’s for UK GE. Sorry! 🙁

      Still a bit wobbly from being ill. 🙂

    242. Clapper57 says:

      @ callmedave @ 5.29pm

      Hi Dave, sorry to hear you have not been well.

      Hope you are feeling better now.

      Thoughts and good wishes to you.

      Have a good evening

    243. CameronB Brodie says:

      A desire to silence and exclude the cultural Other (see Lisa Nandy Mp), articulates the psychology of racism. This is the legal rational that underpins contemporary British constitutionalism. Simples.

      Full text.

      The Psychology of Racism: An Introduction to the Special Issue
      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0963721418781318

    244. Mike d says:

      Clapper 57. And people wonder why sinn Fein (who look like winning big in Ireland’s GE) refuse to take their seats in Westminster to be constantly abused, ignored, and talked down to. At least they have a spine.

    245. mike cassidy says:

      For those who are hoping the gender issue has gone away.

      Here’s Scotland’s top civil servant

      You know, the one

      Directly involved in the Alex Salmond affair

      And given an extended contract ‘despite’ that

      Letting us know it remains a very high priority.

      https://twitter.com/PermSecScot/status/1222826647986081793

    246. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m away this time but I’ll leave you with this thought. Standing under contemporary British constitutionalism, is incompatible with a respect for the international rule-of-law.

      Full text.

      The limits of normative legal pluralism: Review of Paul Schiff Berman, Global Legal Pluralism: A Jurisprudence of Law beyond Borders

      ….In order to make sense of this “disorder of normative orders,”7 several normative proposals have been advanced. The most prominent one—in terms of ink spilled for and against it—has come from the constitutionalization camp. Under this rubric, legal scholars argue that international law is in the process of being (or should be) “constitutionalized.” Of course, there is much diversity of opinion within this camp. Nevertheless, there is clearly a common core that can be discerned: the desire to extend the typical elements from state constitutional law in liberal democracies to the international legal order.

      In this vein, enthusiasts promote a reading of international law in which the features of constitutional law are transposed and adapted to the supranational domain. One of the leading figures in advancing this discourse is Mattias Kumm. In an ever-developing corpus, he expounds his vision of a political order in which constitutional principles dictate the production of legality.8

      https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/11/3/783/789507

    247. sassenach says:

      Just called in to see what’s going on , and I’m amazed – it’s no longer ‘Wings over Scotland’ – it’s the Cameron B Brodie educational class for the underachievers, given by, surely, the most self-important copy & paste know-all one could ever meet.

      He said he was leaving days ago (it only lasted ten minutes!!) – let’s hope this time …………or will he do yet another Boris ‘ditch’ comeback?

      Or is it Wings RIP?

      So sad.

    248. Clapper57 says:

      @ mike d @ 5.37pm

      Hi Mike, my point was not to defend the SNP per se.

      But to defend the rights of Scots to hear and see all candidates from ALL parties standing in a GE and not be dictated to by a unionist politician, with minimal representation in Scotland, who thinks they have the right to dictate who deserves to be heard and seen by everyone in the UKnotOK….and who, for purely party political selfish and Unionist reasons, wants to prohibit others.

      After all this is Nandy’s position on ANY Indy supporting party , both current and indeed any NEW future Indy supporting party that should come along….

      Have a good evening

    249. Mike d says:

      Just watched the BBC 6pm news. Trump’s state of the union address, usual waffle, Nancy Pelosi apparently not allowed to reply on the BBC. Anyone else notice this censorship?.

    250. CameronB Brodie says:

      sassenach
      You really aren’t a fan of specialist knowledge, are you. You’d rather follow a leader who clearly lacks a critical understanding of the law. It’s low-brow mentalities like yours, that keep Scotland enslaved by English exceptionalism.

    251. Dan says:

      @sassennach

      Hmm, a lot of your recent posts have been having a go at Cameron and not much else.
      Stu appears ok for Cameron’s stuff to be posted.
      Gonnae post something interesting yourself?
      Just sayin.

      Do you feel completely at ease that our sovereignty is not being recognised and respected, yet this gender malarkey is getting so much attention and traction?

    252. schrodingers cat says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      sassenach
      You really aren’t a fan of specialist knowledge, are you.

      ———–

      actually, what he said was he isnt a fan of pretentious crap.

    253. twathater says:

      @ Mike Cassidy 5.42 pm so now we know what the plan is UNDERMINE and ALLIENATE women who vote for independence the 50% , make it untenable to vote for the ONLY ( at present )political party who can negotiate independence , all coordinated and planned by the establishment and their cuckoo in our nest and willingly aided and abetted by the very people who we NEED to get us independence

      There was me thinking that civil servants were supposed to be impartial and non political , but after being given an extension to her contract this cuckoo now feels it’s time to make her views known via twatter

      Stu or anyone else FFS get another political party formed where supporters of real females can vote to overturn this LUNACY

    254. Colin Alexander says:

      Sturgeon’s surrender speech is a disgrace.

      A shameful episode in Scotland’s and the SNP’s history.

      It’s her period as FM which should be erased from the SNP’s timeline, as she’s achieved NOTHING as leader anyway.

      A 21st century Toom Tabard.

      Sturgeon must go.

    255. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers
      And who the fuck do you think you are? Away and learn something about the law, before thinking you can talk down to me.

    256. schrodingers cat says:

      so

      we are at 52% yes and 50% snp in the polls

      nicola is doing summat right

      there have been many ideas aired in sm, here and elsewhere, by stu, craig murray and others, all of which have much more validity now we are in the majority

      bear in mind, these polls were carried out before we left the eu.

      we are now getting into the territory whereby we could use the next holyrood election as a defacto plebicite next year, or sooner depending on the swing in the polls

    257. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      You appear to know fuck all about science, as well. Correlation does not prove causation.

    258. schrodingers cat says:

      cam

      i wasnt talking down to you, merely pointing out your inaccuracies.

      i studied moral law at university, …. its complete bollox, always was. nothing more than an attempt by people to pass off their opinions as something more than just their opinion.

      as sassenach says, pretentious crap.

    259. Pete Barton says:

      @CBB:
      I Have to admit I find some of your stuff a bit cerebral.

      But that is not a criticism; more of an admission that I wish I’d stayed on at school and learnt a bit more.

      Some may see your contributions as stocking fillers.

      Some may see them as relevant, indeed vital.

      I will not go down the route of criticising your contributions.

      And this goes for all who post here.

      Unless that contribution has no relevance, or the writer is a complete twat.

      Calm down people, by all means vent your frustrations but keep it civil?

      Thanks.

    260. Republicofscotland says:

      Watching the Tory branch manager Jackson Carlaw receive a CBE from Prince Charles, one can only wonder how the conversation went, probably something like this.

      JC: Oh thank you your greatness, for this humble little House Jock to be recognised for his work in holding back the prosperity, and development of Scotland is an honour indeed your majesty.

      PC: So tell me my favourite little minon at Holyrood, what is one to do with those biddy Scots, wanting independence and all, they’re beginning to irk one, and mother isn’t too pleased either.

      JC: Not to worry your magnificence, I and my Holyrood House Jocks plan to keep on wasting money on FoI’s and demeaning every good policy that, that vile, evil, nasty separatist Nicola Sturgeon announces.

      PC:So I can count on you, my ruddy faced little serf to thwart Sturgeon and Scottish independence?

      JC:Oh yes you wonderous benefactor of the not worthy, I and my band of hardy decriers ofcall things good in Scotland, will not fail you, nor will we fail our country’s (Britain) great Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who we look to for guidance, after yourself my leige.

      PC: Now be off with you my obedient lackey and do your worst. Mummy’s calling.

      JC:kowtowing and mumbling groveling words to himself.

    261. Dan says:

      Yes at 52% wholly down to SNP… or might it actually be because of YES groups and activists voluntarily working their cunts off since 2014, or England’s electoral choices being at odds with Scots, or just natural wastage changes to demographics…

    262. Pete Barton says:

      @ROS

      Pmsl.

      Superb.

    263. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ve decided to stay another night, as I see ethical rationalism is still being resisted by those who place their faith in the current SNP. I’m certainly not claiming I know it all, but I have a training in law and science that was directed towards the de-colonisation of the social consciousness. I also understand and respect the Natural Law and the Law of Persons. A perspective the current leadership clearly lacks.

      ‘Mental rigidity’ at the root of intense political partisanship on both left and right – study

      Latest research shows that reduced cognitive flexibility is associated with more ‘extreme’ beliefs and identities at both ends of the political spectrum. Researchers say that “heightening our cognitive flexibility might help build more tolerant societies”.
      https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/mental-rigidity-at-the-root-of-intense-political-partisanship-on-both-left-and-right-study

    264. CameronB Brodie says:

      CameronB Brodie
      So fuck, I studied moral law, as well. And a tonne of other stuff. Get over yourself, you lack relevant technical insight.

    265. schrodingers cat says:

      Dan says:
      5 February, 2020 at 6:47 pm
      Yes at 52%

      maybe down to all 3, difficult to know exactly,

      as long as it continues in this direction of travel, i care not.

      then again, many on here complained about the lack of movement in the polls and blamed nicola for this, seems only fair to give some credit to her when they do start to move

    266. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pete Barton
      Thank you for your open mind and respectful tolerance.

    267. ElGordo says:

      Cameron B Brodie refers to himself as “a student of all sciences” and as a talented inventor.

      He appears to be heavily influenced by scientists of previous eras, naming successive pet dogs Copernicus and Einstein, and having portraits of Isaac Newton, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Edison and Albert Einstein in his laboratory.

      His favorite author is Jules Verne and his family name was originally “von Braun” before World War I.

      Broadie’s family moved to Scotland from Germany in 1908.

      Initially wealthy because of his inheritance, he spent his entire inheritance on science projects.

      When the Brodie’s house was destroyed by fire in 1962 and the property sold to developers, Brodie moved to live in the adjacent garage.

      He then established a privately owned business to offer 24-hour scientific services, building ingenious devices for his customers.

      Brodie’s work appears to be highly regarded, enough for him to win an award for his work.

      However, he is shown as absent-minded at times, and various statements by other posters on Wings indicate that he is generally regarded as strange, eccentric, or insane.

      Being very loud and sprightly, he often speaks with wide-eyed expressions and broad gestures (“Great Scott!” being one of his well-known catchphrases) and tends to be overly verbose in his delivery, referring in one case to a school dance as a “rhythmic ceremonial ritual”

    268. schrodingers cat says:

      nothing technical about morality, its a fairy story promoted by the archaic objectivist god botherers

    269. cirsium says:

      @mike Cassidy, 5.42

      thanks for posting the comments by Leslie Evans. I am quite appalled. “supine, directionless dissembling” last Friday and now this

      @twathater, 6.24
      so now we know what the plan is UNDERMINE and ALIENATE women who vote for independence the 50% , make it untenable to vote for the ONLY ( at present )political party who can negotiate independence , all coordinated and planned by the establishment and their cuckoo in our nest and willingly aided and abetted by the very people who we NEED to get us independence

      It looks like that to me too

    270. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      So did you train in law, as well as moral philosophy? If you doubt the value of the Natural Law, you doubt the value of ethical reason. If you doubt the value of ethical reason, your judgement can’t be trusted.

      Standing under contemporary British constitutionals, indicates a lack of respect for the Natural Law, from where the British constitution obtains its’ legal force.

      The Doctrine Lives
      The Eternal Return of Natural Law

      THE NEWS REPORTED in the last chapter—that the tradition of natural law is dead—calls for some verification, before it is accepted as true. For one thing, it may be a case of mistaken identity; perhaps it was for some contrefaçon of the doctrine that the funeral rites were held. This is possible. So many misunderstandings have conspired to obscure the true identity of the doctrine that it is often mistaken for what it is not. Some of the misunderstandings are naive; others are of the learned sort. Some are the product of ignorance; others result from polemic bias….

      https://www.library.georgetown.edu/woodstock/murray/whtt_c13_1950a

    271. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A cracker of a 2 minute video.
      Sorry Rev Stu – it may embed because it’s not Youtube.

    272. Pete says:

      CameronB Brodie
      Do you have a job or are you unemployed or sick?
      Just asking as you seem to have lots of spare time to post all your rubbish.

    273. Colin Alexander says:

      It’s 52% thanks to the people of Scotland.

      It’s 52% despite Nicola Sturgeon.

      It’s 52% and could have been closer to 72% if we’d had a pro-independence campaign from the SNP and an SNP leader who defended Scotland’s sovereignty and didn’t bend the knee to the English nationalist Government of England’s UK.

    274. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pete
      Would my employment status change the value of my contribution?

    275. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pete
      Would my employment status make this insight any less valuable?

      RATIONALITY AS THE FUNDATMENTAL QUALITY OF LAW: AN EVALUATION OF THE NATURAL LAW THEORY
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329415251_RATIONALITY_AS_THE_FUNDATMENTAL_QUALITY_OF_LAW_AN_EVALUATION_OF_THE_NATURAL_LAW_THEORY

    276. Dr Jim says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      What a great wee video that is

    277. schrodingers cat says:

      If you doubt the value of ethical reason, your judgement can’t be trusted.

      ethical reason is a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron if you will.

      there is no reason or logic behind morality, its an exercise in angelology for gullible and weak minded religious nuts. nothing more.

      proof, if morality were real, it would be fixed, an unchanging truth, 50 years ago, homosexuality was immoral, illegal, irreligious and unsocial. now it isnt

      what has changed is public opinion

    278. Craig Murray says:

      Moles tell me today that the murrells have told party hq that spring conference is cancelled to avoid membership rebellion for indyref2. Anyone else picked this up?

    279. CamoronB Brodie says:

      I’m only kidding. 😉

      schrodingers cat and I have a lot more in common than you think. One cannot deny biological facts. 😉

    280. Dr Jim says:

      Laws are made then unmade diverted subverted perverted until they’re meaningless in the hands of the lawmakers who pursue the ends of lawmaking for themselves and not for the purpose of justice

      Justice is a concept lawmakers talk about but scrupulously avoid incorporating into law because then everybody would want it, could be maybe because God never mentioned the words *Except* or *Unless*, who knows?

      We need the next ten commandments so we can spend the next couple of thousand years arguing and unmaking them

    281. Colin Alexander says:

      Craig Murray

      Moles ratting on the weasels?

    282. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I don’t know where you learned your moral and legal philosophy, but you’re talking bollocks.

      NATURAL LAW, JUSTICE AND DEMOCRACY-SOME
      REFLECTIONS ON THREE TYPES OF THINKING
      ABOUT LAW AND JUSTICE

      https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3729&context=fss_papers

    283. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Honestly, you’re talking shite. The British constitution derives its’ legal force from the Natural Law. Neither the Prime Minister nor the First Minister appear to respect Natural Law. Subsequently, Britain in no longer a social democracy.

      Natural Law Theory: Crash Course Philosophy #34
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_UfYY7aWKo

    284. schrodingers cat says:

      Honestly, you’re talking shite. The British constitution………….

      snigger

      wake up at the back there 🙂

      and cam said unto to stu, “You are the eschatological manifestation of the ground of our being, the ontological foundation of the context of our very selfhood revealed.”

      And stu replied, “Eh?”

    285. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Vagi-disliker,

      I like your style and for one, I SHARE your believes So much so, that it is well worth bumping your contribution up the ranks a bit in case anyone missed your point…

      ————————————————–

      twathater says:
      5 February, 2020 at 4:50 pm
      @ Mike d 4.27pm no Mike…

      We NEED politicians who are passionate and forthright to CONSTANTLY challenge any and all liars who spout the same shite against us daily, where can we find them? My post upthread possibly gave a hint where they are but nobody on here appears to share my belief in our bloggers and vloggers

      Stu Campbell , Peter A Bell , Paul K , David Hooks , Jeggit , Barrhead boy , Lesley Riddoch , Gordon Ross and many many others , ALL of them dedicated independenistas and every one of them working their socks off to gain our independence , but they have to be kept outside the tent whilst we have SNP reps who CONSTANTLY FAIL to challenge ANYTHING or to even provide information to the undecideds to help them believe Scotland NEEDS independence.

    286. Dr Jim says:

      @schrodingers cat

      I love all that kinda stuff, it’s good to laugh

    287. Clapper57 says:

      You write ANY posts on MT that includes a mention of the SNP and before you know it THAT and only THAT is what some peeps on here focus on….your ACTUAL point that you were trying make..not so much…Sigh.

      It gets to the point that you feel you CANNOT mention the SNP by name in your comment…as it is interpreted as either Pro or anti SNP….while the context in which you mention them is ignored

      Dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t.

      Frankly if we have come to the point where one has to edit and monitor one’s own posts in order to not offend anyone and thus await the inevitable attacks forthcoming…by both sides…. then WTF is the point of submitting anything other than posts confined within the realms of ambiguity so that one cannot then be defined as being either “with us or against us”….as in Pro SNP or Anti SNP.

      I think we are all , by now, more than aware of the sentiments held by those who still support the SNP’s position and indeed those who challenge it….but that does not mean we have to behave like those people of whom we all criticise, Uber Pro Unionists, and deride and abuse those who….let’s be honest…are simply voicing their opinion via what they write on here.

      The reality is whatever our opinion is…it is but ONLY an opinion, there may be things we are unaware of or it may be , in relation to the SNP…that what we see is what we get.

      F**k knows….the main issue is Independence and before all of this Brexshit sheeite dominated everything we , on here, did agree that the independence movement…or YES movement was NOT soley defined by the SNP …..however currently and before Brexshit they were the only vehicle available from which we could hope to achieve it…..as they held the most seats and were recognised, by the wider public, as THE most prominent independence political party….and after all it is not just us keyboard warriors who get to decide…Lol

      Sorry, but I am very tired , very demoralised and for me quite uncharacteristically to have got to the point of not bothering who tells me on here, in respect to this comment….to GTF.

    288. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here one for folk who insist contemporary British constitutionalism is compatible with liberal democracy. Full text.

      Democratic Ethics, Constitutional Dimensions, and Constitutionalisms
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228127368_Democratic_Ethics_Constitutional_Dimensions_and_Constitutionalisms

    289. Dr Jim says:

      @Clapper57 7:48pm

      Good for you, but don’t let anyone demoralise you, you’re as important as anyone else and you own your vote to place where you want, the same as everyone else

    290. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      I’ll ask again, who the fuck do you think you are, outside of your imagionation?

    291. North chiel says:

      Republic of Scotland says @ 0441 p.m., the state Westminster controlled propaganda outlets ( Including Scottish colonial mouthpieces at “ Scottish” TV & BBC “ Scotland” via their London colonial masters ) , have been instructed by the Bojo “ junta” to “ ramp up” the anti Holyrood government rhetoric from now & the months ahead . The clear objective is to defeat the SNP in the 2021 Holyrood election and replace the SNP government with a unionist alliance led by a “ Britnat” unionist FM . This will ramped up in conjunction with the new unionist “ advertising campaign” to “ inform” the Scottish electorate of the wonderful benefits of the “ so called union” . Once they have control of Holyrood then the “ colonial civil service” under direct command of Alistair “ union” Jack , will ensure that the “ colonial FM & serfs” at Holyrood will do exactly what the “ Tory Junta high command” require of them . No dissidence will be tolerated in the quest to reclaim Scotland from “ the separatists “ .

    292. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Seriously dude, your dealing with someone who knows what they are talking about. Get over yourself, you lack relevant insight.

      THE POLITICAL ETHOS OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY AND THE PLACE OF NATURAL LAW IN PUBLIC REASON: RAWLS’S “POLITICAL LIBERALISM”
      REVISITED

      https://academic.oup.com/ajj/article-pdf/50/1/1/6654330/ajj-50-1.pdf

    293. schrodingers cat says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      I don’t know where you learned your moral and legal philosophy

      thats cos you spend your time posting reams of pretentious apocryphal havers written by other people in an effort to sound clever.

      try posting your own thoughts and engage in discussion.

    294. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Instead of simply criticizing my beliefs and technique, why not provide some evidence substantiating your moral and political position. I might take you more seriously then.

    295. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Your last comment proves you also know fuck all about Communication Theory.

    296. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      Get learning dude, you’ve a long road to travel before you get to where I am.

      Political Communication and Social Change.
      Political Communication and Challenges in the Digital Age

      https://icono14.net/ojs/index.php/icono14/article/download/1161/1268/

    297. schrodingers cat says:

      why not provide some evidence substantiating your moral and political position.

      i already did. the above are my opinions, that is all there is for anyone

      you, however have only linked to other peoples work

    298. schrodingers cat says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      you’ve a long road to travel before you get to where I am.

      ———–

      get a load of me…………. lol

      pretentious……moi?

    299. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Dear Ambassador Murray,

      That is spooky. One of my friends is still a local branch member (and office holder). She very rarely misses a conference but this afternoon said Spring Conference is being put back “a wee bit” because of Alex Salmond’s court case. The reason given is the risk of sub judice / contempt of court concerns at an open mike during a major televised SNP event. Sounded plausible.

      Craig, in light of what you just posited, you place quite a different interpretation on things and that changes the essential meaning of what I was told today.

      But surely such a brazen cancellation or deferral because of cowardice of democracy would spark an outrage?

      Unelected Mr Murrell subjugating a legitimate vote by Mandering the Gerry would unleash much more of a problem than provide a solution. If there is veracity in the SNP leader dodging a motion at Spring Conference forcing the IndyRef2 issue, that would lead to many constituency members reaching for the rule book and studying the triggers on forcing a special/emergency conference in the stead of the vacated Spring assembly for SNP faithful.

      Maybe we do have some hope that IndyRef2 WILL be called with someone who has the courage.

      When IndyRef1 started, we were more than 20% shy of YES at 45%.

      The dynamics of an ACTUAL referendum campaign, and the GOLD STANDARD WHITE PAPER for IndyRef1 led by the BEST First Minister Scotland has ever had: Alex Salmond… coupled with media coverage and the likes of WoS Wee Blue Book got us to 45%.

      Surely with YES now at 50% when the ACTUAL IndyRef 2 TWO campaign runs its course we will end at 60% to 65%?

      My only question is who will lead IndyRef2 in the scenario that an Emergency Conference is called to replace the CANCELLED Spring Conference?

      A]. Nicola Sturgeon, SNP Leader?
      B]. Joanna Cherry, (the new) SNP Leader?
      or…
      C]. Alex Salmond, the returning SNP Leader?

      Interesting Times.

      Stuart Campbell is definitely not away watching daytime tv and playing SuperMario on his Nintendo. Not reviewing video games. He is writing Wee Blue Book V: “Return of The Eck.” Or possibly volume VI: “Cherry, The Empire Gets Struck Down.”

      This would be really good news. Thank you Craig.

    300. Effijy says:

      There seems to be a Cat Fight with Miss Jean Brodie!

      Guys, new visitor to the site hungry for independence lead exchange
      And ammunition against knuckle draggers like HIFUD find you two
      Clawing at each other.

      We are on the road to independence together.

    301. CameronB Brodie says:

      schrodingers cat
      You obviously think a lot of yourself. Unfortunately, I don’t share your belief in your abilities. Instead of believing you already know it all, why not immerse yourself in some critical thinking.

      An integrated model of communication influence on beliefs
      https://www.pnas.org/content/110/Supplement_3/14088

    302. sassenach says:

      schrodingers cat

      You seem to have upset Cammy, he’s not taking his break.

      Ah well, bless.

    303. CameronB Brodie says:

      It is the stubbornness of individuals who refuse to embrace ethical reason, that keeps Scotland under the cultural oppression of Westminster’s law. Time for a bit of political philosophy?

      Rawls’ Concept Of Justice As Political: A Defense Against Critics

      ABSTRACT:
      Rawls’ theory of justice as fairness involves a central contention that principles of justice essential to the structure of a constitutional democracy must be viewed as political in contrast to more comprehensive moral, philosophical or religious doctrines.

      The concept of justice is not its being true to an antecedent moral order and given to us, but its being congruent with our self-understanding within the history of justice as political is not a mere modus vivendi, for it embodies an overlapping consensus that does have a moral basis.

      Critical reaction to Rawls has been that what is simply a consensus within a tradition of public discourse cannot afford an adequate criteria of moral justification, and that Rawls cannot define the moral basis for justice as fairness without some reference to a comprehensive theory of the good.

      But it will be argued that critics are missing what is central to Rawls’ theory of moral justification as what he sees to be the outcome of a process of “wide reflective equilibrium” in which principles of justice initially given within a tradition are weighed against rival moral theories and in relation to scientific theories of human nature and society in order to establish what seems “most reasonable to us.”

      https://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Poli/PoliHoy.htm

    304. CameronB Brodie says:

      sassenach
      That the best you can do? I’m mortality wounded.

    305. sassenach says:

      Effijy

      I wholeheartedly agree that we are on the road to Indy, together, but any new ‘guys’ newly coming here would not find much helpful stuff lately – just a whole lot of people attempting to get the Leader sacked, just when all the polls are going for us!! Quite unbelievable.

      It’s a place for mass suicide of real independence supporters at present, and I do hope the Rev is working on his new WBB and will be back soon.

      Having been posting on here since 2013, this is the worst period I have ever known. No wonder all the original crowd seem to be going over to Indyref2 site.

      ps Dr Jim, still like all your stuff, keep on going!

    306. CameronB Brodie says:

      sassenach
      Why not try expanding your understanding of the world, before seeking to dismiss insight conducive to Scotland’s political emancipation.

      Constitutional Theory in a Nutshell
      https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1245&context=wmborj

    307. CameronB Brodie says:

      sassenach
      Here’s one to help expand your political consciousness. Of course, you will have to have grounded yourself in constitutional legal theory first, in order to access the liberating potential of the law.

      Indeterminacy, Justifification and Truth in Constitutional Theory
      https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2960&context=flr

    308. sassenach says:

      CameronB Brodie

      I think my understanding of the world is sufficient, I still study at times, but don’t want to come on this site and be choked by screeds of copied material that has to end in “ology” ( to try and demonstrate your pretentious academian ramblings, which I wager hardly anyone reads!).

      If that is your way to encourage ‘normal’ people to come to Indy, then you have little common sense, or understanding of your fellow man.

      If all this stuff is so vital and important, why have you not bundled it all up and presented it at Holyrood, so that our government can take it forward?? I think we know the answer to that one!!

      All you do is disjoint any conversations about real Indy issues when folk need to be eternally scrolling past the gibberish.

      If I hadn’t been here such a long time, I don’t think I would remain past one visit – I’d be bored to death, not inspired to join the cause.

    309. Mike d says:

      Just watched ‘ a new life in the sun’ English couple had to apply for a licence in France to run a business and register to vote etc. Which is why I think the Scottish government are committing geographical incomer ( PC aware here, but fuck that) suicide here.

    310. CameronB Brodie says:

      sassenach
      Did you also think you knew better than your teachers, when at school? You appear to lack an appreciation of how education works. As such, I’m afraid your appear to be a bit of lost cause.

    311. Mike d says:

      What! Nobody calling me a racist yet?. Ah I see I’m not an English anti Scots racist. So that’s ok. Terry and Blair, know how you feel.

    312. CameronB Brodie says:

      If Scots are happy to be treated as slaves, then that is there affair. I’m not of that mind though, so I can’t support a party that appears ignorant of constitutional law. Full text.

      Cosmopolitanism and constitutional self-government
      https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/8/3/326/623498

    313. Mike d says:

      Agree with posters on here, Dr Jim, your posts are the first i scroll to on wings. Dont you dare leave us.

    314. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dr Jim
      I still want your babies. 🙂

    315. sassenach says:

      Cameron B Brodie says :- “Did you also think you knew better than your teachers, when at school?”

      You poor, deluded soul, I have spent almost the whole of my working life in Scottish higher education (over 30 years in total), but never had the chance to have me in one of my lectures!! So I am not able to answer your question, but I assure you my students would testify to my NOT being a pretentious prat.

    316. Mike d says:

      If dr Jim was miss Jim, I’d be like a rat up a drainpipe. Lol

    317. CameronB Brodie says:

      sassenach
      So what’s your area of expertise then? Does it hold relevance to Scotland’ constitutional crises?

    318. Mike d says:

      People talk about the Scottish people rising, my cock has risen in the morning, but then went back to sleep.

    319. velofello says:

      Rev, we need you back active. I cannot keep up with the number of posts here nor the weighty length of some, but squabbling seems to have started and we surely don’t need it.

    320. Mike d says:

      Sadly Scotland needs to take the scalpel to eradicate the cancer of unionism.

    321. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, it doesn’t look like I’m going to get an answer. I’m certainly not claiming I know it all, but my professional training kind of makes me a ‘de-colonisation technician’.

      I know this is specific to the USA but the theory transfers. Full text.

      A Psychologically-Motivated Model of Opinion Change with Applications to American Politics

      Agent-based models are versatile tools for studying how societal opinion change, including political polarization and cultural diffusion, emerges from individual behavior. This study expands agents’ psychological realism using empirically-motivated rules governing interpersonal influence, commitment to previous beliefs, and conformity in social contexts.

      Computational experiments establish that these extensions produce three novel results: (a) sustained strong diversity of opinions within the population, (b) opinion subcultures, and (c) pluralistic ignorance. These phenomena arise from a combination of agents’ intolerance, susceptibility and conformity, with extremist agents and social networks playing important roles. The distribution and dynamics of simulated opinions reproduce two empirical datasets on Americans’ political opinions.

      Keywords:
      Agent-Based Model, Opinion Dynamics, Social Networks, Conformity, Polarization, Extremism

      http://jasss.soc.surrey.ac.uk/20/1/13.html

    322. sassenach says:

      CBB
      “So what’s your area of expertise then?”

      – Education, but without copy and paste! Not a town hall planner, either!

    323. sassenach says:

      Interesting results in the poll over on SGP site, and more to come he says.

    324. CameronB Brodie says:

      Or to put it another way, I’m trained as an agent of social change.

      PATHWAYS FOR CHANGE:
      10 Theories to Inform Advocacy and Policy Change Efforts

      https://www.orsimpact.com/DirectoryAttachments/132018_13248_359_Center_Pathways_FINAL.pdf

    325. CameronB Brodie says:

      sassenach
      For someone who’s spent their life in education, you appear too thick to appreciate I’m linking to material that has specific relevance to Scotland’s political crises. Or perhaps simply too bigoted to take other opinions into consideration?

      People, Politics and Change
      Building Communication Capacity for Governance Reform

      https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/57a08ac140f0b652dd0008ac/PPCOnline.pdf

    326. Mike d says:

      Anyhow off topic, me and the wife are off on a 2 week coach trip to benidorm this week. I’ve got Scottish t.shirts, Celtic t shirts packed. I’ve even got my Irish passport. But my Scottish accent confuses our eu friends. (I’ll kill the b’stards when they say,you eeenglish). Any suggestions apart from wearing my ten in a row t.shirt

    327. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s some Philosophy of Educationa, for those who already think they know it all. Full text.

      Democracy and Education:
      About the Future of a Problem

      Abstract

      In 20th century’s European theory of education there was little interest in philosophy of democracy. John Dewey’s Democracy and Education was translated in nearly every European language but did not become the center of discussion. Even “radical education” was much more childcentered than open to radical questions of political democracy.

      This article discusses the problem in two respects, first the tension between neo-liberalism’s concept of individuality and public education, and second the future problems of a theory of “democratic education” after Dewey. The aim is to overcome traditional European dualisms like that of “citizen” or “man” i.e. to pave the way for a post-Rousseauian theory of education.

      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.3102/0034654319862493

    328. Dan says:

      @Mike d

      Suggestions:
      You’re Scottish and there’s two of you going so on the way out take about 8 litres of sunblock.
      On the way home both of you can bring a litre of spirits and a box of 200 smokes (very retro I know) but good training all the same for learning the limits of duty free once we’re out the EU.

    329. CameronB Brodie says:

      And here’s a bit on Communication Theory. Full text.

      Communication Theory and Social Change

      Abstract
      Communication theory is not only about society; it is also in society and contributes to the evolution of the communication practices that constitute society, thereby participating in processes of social change.

      This theme is illustrated by examining the ideas of network and ritual to show how each emerged as a practical concept in Western culture long before it was theorized explicitly for scientific purposes, and how each concept has developed in conjunction with profound changes in the communicative constitution of society.

      Next, it is argued more generally that communication theory and practice interact in the medium of metadiscourse, and that the discourse about communication, on both theoretical and practical levels, also engages critically with other discourses such as traditional authoritarianism and political realism, thus being caught up in social conflicts.

      In this complex scene of metadiscursive controversy and social conflict, communication theory participates in social change. Finally, it is suggested that this view on the role of communication theory in social change can contribute to recent conversations about the development of Asian communication theory.

      Keywords:
      communication theory, communicative constitution of society, metadiscourse, theory and practice, social

      https://www.hipatiapress.com/hpjournals/index.php/csc/article/view/758/htmlconflict

    330. Mike d says:

      when I grew up as a kid with my siblings on the west coast of Ireland after moving from Scotland as an 8 yr old. I had a sense of pride, especially when my scots mum told me all about my heritage. ( her maiden name is Wallace, I know dont laugh). When we went to Scotland on summer school holidays, we never realised as children why we were called’ wee fenian bastards ‘ Oh yes ,you orange Scottish bastards have certainly left a legacy of hatred.

    331. Dan says:

      I see Lizzy is to open a new pumping station on Sandringham Estate which one presumes we paid for… as if she hasn’t pumped us Scots enough already…

    332. Col.Blimp IV says:

      velofello says:
      5 February, 2020 at 10:12 pm
      “Rev, we need you back active. I cannot keep up with the number of posts here nor the weighty length of some, but squabbling seems to have started and we surely don’t need it”

      Yes, with the Rev having gone AWOL, we are left with a chat-room which doesn’t have a great deal of focus.

      Maybe some of us could read the online papers and post a link to some relevant or controversial article that we could get our teeth into.

    333. Elmac says:

      Its limbo time again. 31st January has passed with barely a whimper, the troops are still sitting in the Commons wearing their hard hats to deflect the constant stream of shit which is thrown at them, and life appears to go on as before. Guess the real hard stuff will only hit the fan at the end of the year when the buffoon achieves his goal of Brexit with no deal. In the meantime we can look forward to the aggressive erosion of Holyrood’s paltry powers and the continued indoctrination of the Scottish population to believe that they are totally incompetent at everything. By the time we get to the end of 2020 Scotland will be completely demoralised and powerless to act. As a nation we will have been consigned to the dustbin of colonial history. The chosen few, the moneyed elite with their offshore tax evasion, will be massively enriched at the expense of the vast bulk of the UK population with Scots particularly badly hit. The UK will be impoverished and even more despised by the rest of Europe and Scotland laughed at for the lack of courage to break free.

      It need not be like this. There is still time to act decisively. We need leaders with the courage to organise our own referendum to decide what the Scottish people want. It needs to be done now before our many friends in Europe tire of waiting. For the last few years I have trusted in the judgement of the SNP and NS in particular to do what is best for our country. That trust is gone. I believe the leadership of the SNP are more concerned with self-preservation than an independent future for Scotland. To await the formation and rise of a new independence vehicle would set our cause back decades. What is needed is an urgent root and branch reformation of the SNP and that is down to the members. Regretfully I can have no part in that as I recently dumped my membership in a fit of pique over the failure to act on the 31st January deadline. In retrospect that was not the way to go as the organisation needs to be changed from within. We need people with energy, vision and a burning desire for independence to lead us rather than the current crop who appear to be too happy in their comfort zone.

    334. Gary45% says:

      Mike d@10.36
      Take a saltire flag 5’x3′ for laying on the beach under your beach towel, or better still if you can get your hands on an EU saltire for the same effect, I do it all the time, you will be amazed how welcoming people are when they realise you’re Scottish.
      Also if you have an Indy hub near you get a wee saltire sticker for the front of your passport.
      Try simple Spanish phrases, the EU nationals appreciate the effort, and lastly do not go near English Pubs, only use Spanish ones, after all you are in Spain.

    335. Mike d says:

      Re my above post. We scots/Irish get off our knees, while you wannabe 2nd class English still haven’t evolved from snakes.

    336. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Without wishing to butt into the squabble between the grannies and their knitting patterns, could someone tell me what this indyref2 site is that gets mentioned by some folks.

      As a foreigner, I’m not always up-to-date and as the Rev is probably undergoing a wellness holiday in preperation for the next campaign or two, I just thought I’d ask.

      Ta in advance.

    337. Mike d says:

      Gary45%.cheers Gary, always do my best abroad. I try and avoid the cringe,

    338. Mike d says:

      Gary 45%. Whenever I see a butcher’s apron n a pub in Spain. I treat it like the coronavirus.

    339. manandboy says:

      http://archive.ph/wip/75vIh

      BORIS ‘BLAST’ Furious Boris Johnson ‘called Nicola Sturgeon a “bloody wee Jimmy Krankie woman” during tense climate summit.

      PMJohnson reveals his true level, somewhere between trash and low-life.

    340. Fireproofjim says:

      Cameron B Brodie
      Being a pedantic sort of person I counted your posts on this thread. It’s now 86. Are you going for some sort of record? Even the late lamented Cactus never was so self indulgent.
      I know it is a long thread but don’t you think you are overdoing it a bit?
      I used to try to keep up but now I just scroll past, as I expect the majority do. Your self proclaimed education efforts are so many straws in the wind.

    341. Mike d says:

      Manandboy. Where are baader meinhof when you need them?

    342. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Wow, thank you.

    343. Dr Jim says:

      Wait, what? this isn’t a chat room? Jeez!

      Even when the rev does post a new topic, within about 15 or 16 posts the subject changes anyway because somebody mentions something else that might be interesting or funny or just downright daft then everybody piles in and blethers whatever comes into their heads, some folk hate everybody, some folk insist stuff, some folk want us to pay more attention at the back of the class, some folk are mental, pretty much a cross section of society there

      That’s OK isn’t it?

      I think that sort of thing’s been re labled as a *national conversation*, makes us blethering at each other sound more pertinant sounding, don’t you think

    344. Dan says:

      @Graf Midgehunter

      I understand it was set up with best intentions after Nana had endured ongoing problems posting multiple links in her posts on this site.
      Various long term commenters on Wings also migrated over there after “differences of opinion clashes” on this site, but it isn’t particularly busy over there.

      In my view this has significantly diminished the spectrum of opinion and knowledge btl on Wings for not a great deal of gain on the other site due to dilution of commenters.

      It’s a shame really and suspect a lot of it was all just frustration boiling over because of the lack of anything to focus on as we watched in slow motion the car crash of being pulled out the EU against our will.
      I’ll link to the site in next post as don’t want this post held in moderation if link isn’t allowed.

    345. Dan says:

      Linky. Scroll through sections for a look as there is some good stuff.

      https://indyref2.space

    346. Dr Jim says:

      @Manandboy 11:28pm

      When a whole city as big as Liverpool can recognise the Sun newspaper for what it is and not buy the damn thing you’d think the rest of the UK would pay attention to why

      On another note I just found out tonight that Paul Hutcheon is with the Daily Record now so not be long till his next move to the Political editor of the Pigeon Fanciers Gazzette

      More and more of our Scottish *journalists* teaching us how to descend the ladder of success

    347. Fireproofjim says:

      My recent comment on CBB’s eighty-six posts on this thread is now being held in moderation for some reason. No swear words or anything rude! Honest.
      However reading through some of his recent comments I am reminded of the medieval religious scholars debating the number of angels that could dance on the head of a pin.

    348. mike cassidy says:

      Well.

      While everybody wonders how to keep the comments going for a whole week

      – between the Saturday cartoons –

      take a minute and a half to check out Mr Kirk Douglas now that he has gone to The Big Sky.

      https://www.cartoonbrew.com/shorts/honor-kirk-douglas-100th-birthday-heres-greatest-animated-short-ever-made-kirk-douglas-146150.html

    349. Graf Midgehunter says:

      DAN

      Thanks for the info and link. I’ll have a wee looky looky to see what its like..! 🙂

      BTW, I’ve been paying attention to your bit of fun with the TR7, oldtimers are pretty grumpy sometimes.

      I’m in the Frankfurter Automobile Club and we’ve got quite a few “Golden Oldies” running around (cars I mean..!). Everything from normal cars to full blooded racing cars incl. Formula stuff.

      I used to work for a large auto organisation in Germany and was heavily involved in the marketing and organisation of auto sporting/racing events.

      Have a nice evening, or is it good night..??

    350. Dan says:

      Not particularly looking forward to future weekend fry ups with added “Brexit” bonus…

      https://twitter.com/BillRobb_Mod1/status/1224943711370579971

    351. HYUFD says:

      Breaking – sex text scandal involving SNP Finance Minister Derek Mackay and 16 year old boy, boy’s mother says Sturgeon should sack him. Though technically not illegal will be an embarrassment to the First Minister
      https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/5253542/snp-derek-mackay-schoolboy-texts-holyrood/

    352. mike cassidy says:

      Looks like there’s a handful of SNP voters who just don’t like Europeans!

      Research with party members offers an important clue about how to heal Brexit divisions

      http://archive.is/4Gdw5

    353. CameronB Brodie says:

      Fireproofjim
      Have you taken the opportunity to educate yourself with any of the material I’ve provided, or are you simply another conceited Scotsman who thinks they already know enough to defend their political rights?

      What’s your area of expertise then?

    354. CameronB Brodie says:

      mike cassidy
      I suspect that’s simply Tories who vote SNP for competent government. Euroscepticism is an emotional state of belief that has spread from England’s Tories to the more democratically minded in Britain. Your traditional Marxist is also prone to Euroscepticism, as they share the same utilitarian kernel to their ideology as Torydum.

    355. Dan says:

      @Graf MH

      Actually planning more NotSuchaTriumph TR7 antics after a snooze as got my hands on yet another cylinder head to investigate to see if it is salvageable.
      No idea what alloy they used for the head castings but it is corrodes really badly. This will be the 6th head I’ve managed to look at as all the others were going to need extensive work and cost to get to a usable condition.
      So it’s cam and tappets out then pull the valves then clean it all up for inspection in the hope it can be made good.
      At least I’ve got a shit load of shims from all the other damaged heads to reset the valve clearances…

      Much prefer getting dirty with German models, though tbh that pastime has been limited to classic VWs.
      They are way better engineered and even with well over 100k miles the engines still have the hone marks on the bores, whereas old British shite engines would be so worn you could cut your finger on the wear ridge at the top of the bores.

      It’s after midnight here and pretty mild for time of year, actually heard and caught a midge flying around the room earlier so that’s one less for you to hunt!

    356. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s some legal theory to try an support Scotland’s democracy. I can’t do your learning for you but I can certainly point you in the right direction. Full text.

      The Time of Constitution-Making: On the Differentiation of the Legal, Political and Moral Systems and Temporality of Constitutional Symbolism
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263484407_The_Time_of_Constitution-Making_On_the_Differentiation_of_the_Legal_Political_and_Moral_Systems_and_Temporality_of_Constitutional_Symbolism

    357. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Dan

      “It’s after midnight here and pretty mild for time of year, actually heard and caught a midge flying around the room earlier so that’s one less for you to hunt!”

      The name comes from my girlfriend who hates the wee bloodsuckers and in Summer hopes that I can find them and kill the buggers.

      “Mückenjäger”- Midgehunter.

      I suppose I’m a kind of Jägermeister..!

    358. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      I am NOT a fan of Derek Mackay. He completely screwed up the ferry contracts for Ferguson Shipbuilders and CalMac when he was Transport Minister.

      If Nicola has and consistency, she will do to Derek Mackay what she has done to those who are less in favour with herself: sack/suspend them as guilty until proven innocent. That is Nicola’s Way.

      HOWEVER, there is something deeply troubling about the MSM (and regional press) releasing this DEREK MACKAY CHATS UP SCHOOLBOY scandal the night before the Scottish Government budget.

      Derek Mackay MSP is a gray haired, 42 year old middle-aged-man and should NOT be (allegedly) bombarding a 16 year old schoolboy with anything. Sub judice and contempt of court renders any further comment on Mackay’s alleged child grooming efforts inadvisable.

      But the timing of the press does nothing to help the police process which, by the sounds of the boy’s mother, is quite properly a distinct likelihood:-

      http://archive.is/wip/5wwf6

      http://archive.is/SznfN

      ————————

      MACKAY NEEDS TO RESIGN BEFORE THE BUDGET. OR BE SACKED.

      SNP policy to SUSPEND MSP’s BEFORE any inquiry.

      Precedent example of SNP guilty before proven innocent policy…

      http://archive.is/wip/lUnmQ

    359. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Looks like Shona Robison MSP’s telephone rang a few days ago as an unintended consequence. This was triggered when the Sun newspaper asked Jackson’s Entry for a “comment” on a story it MIGHT run in relation to the politically explosive Derek Mackay and his 16 year old schoolboy friendship.

      Apparently Nicola’s bestie, Shona Robison is now fully back on track and “ready to serve” again in high office.

      Word has it that there is a 50% chance Derek Mackay will have done the decent thing and gone within hours. The new Finance Secretary, Shona Robison being announced in a “decisive action” move to kill the story. In that scenario, Shona will have Derek’s old limo has he walks home.

      The good news for Derek is he may have lost his ministerial limo, but he will be getting one of those rusting hulk ferries he ordered as his new mode of transport. Delivery date 2027.

      If Boyish Good Looks Mackay The Cutie is brazen enough to hang on with his finger-nails screeching across the blackboard whilst security drags him out of the building, Shona will be Finance Minister within 48 hours.

    360. K1 says:

      ‘HYUFD says:
      6 February, 2020 at 12:18 am
      Breaking – sex text scandal involving SNP Finance Minister Derek Mackay and 16 year old boy, boy’s mother says Sturgeon should sack him. Though technically not illegal will be an embarrassment to the First Minister’

      Fuck off you little tory shit stirrer, where are all the ‘breaking stories’ of those in your own party for actual heinous crimes?

      Where’s the Cameron and May and Johnson’s embarrassment regarding the obscene level of councillors and Mayor’s from your Tory party, where’s the fucking outrage from you about the utterly abhorrent and easily sourced sexual abuse of children ‘stories’ that those in your (and tbf Labour) party have buried/covered up for decades?

      You’re a snide little prick with this sort of post. C’mon, here’s a couple of recent ones in the last 2 years to get ye started ya little prick, don’t make me easily find the fucking dozens more of both Tory and Labour sociopathic nut jobs who rape kids and download the most vile child abuse for their pleasure:

      ‘Simon Thornton was the Tory Mayor of Godalming and a Councillor. On 18 June he pleaded guilty to over 20 child sex offences and was jailed for 9 years at Guildford Crown Court.

      When he was arrested in October 2017, in the truest fashion of an arrogant sociopath, Thornton told police, “You know I’m the Mayor of Godalming“.

      ‘David Boswell was the Tory Mayor of Pembroke and a Pembrokeshire County Councillor. On 18th June he was convicted at Swansea Crown Court after having been found guilty of raping a child, as well as three indecent assaults against her and another young girl.

      In all, after being found guilty of further charges of child abuse, Boswell has been convicted of five charges of child sex offences.

      The attention given to the crimes and their perpetuators was, typically, sharply lacking any real attention in the mainstream media – a fact that did not go amiss on Twitter.’

      https://evolvepolitics.com/two-separate-tory-politicians-have-been-convicted-of-child-sex-offences-in-the-last-48-hours/

      Not quite the same level as ‘sex texting’ is it?

      Whether any indecent and/or illegal shit goes down, it’s up to the authorities to deal with this and it is not acceptable in any political party’s staff, but to use this as some sort of political capital on this forum to insinuate some metric of the SNP’s worth or value and to lay it at the feet of the FM, merely reveals the level of hypocrisy that your are prepared to indulge in to score a cheap point.

      Now go take a flying fuck to yourself, ya hypocritical little fuckwit.

    361. K1 says:

      K1 says:
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      6 February, 2020 at 4:22 am
      ‘HYUFD says:
      6 February, 2020 at 12:18 am
      Breaking – sex text scandal involving SNP Finance Minister Derek Mackay and 16 year old boy, boy’s mother says Sturgeon should sack him. Though technically not illegal will be an embarrassment to the First Minister’

      Fuck off you little tory shit stirrer, where are all the ‘breaking stories’ of those in your own party for actual heinous crimes?

      Where’s the Cameron and May and Johnson’s embarrassment regarding the obscene level of councillors and Mayor’s from your Tory party, where’s the fucking outrage from you about the utterly abhorrent and easily sourced sexual abuse of children ‘stories’ that those in your (and tbf Labour) party have buried/covered up for decades?

      You’re a snide little prick with this sort of post. C’mon, here’s a couple of recent ones in the last 2 years to get ye started, don’t make me easily find the fucking dozens more of both Tory and Labour sociopathic nut jobs who r*pe kids and download the most vile child abuse for their pleasure:

      ‘Simon Thornton was the Tory Mayor of Godalming and a Councillor. On 18 June he pleaded guilty to over 20 child sex offences and was jailed for 9 years at Guildford Crown Court.

      When he was arrested in October 2017, in the truest fashion of an arrogant sociopath, Thornton told police, “You know I’m the Mayor of Godalming“.

      ‘David Boswell was the Tory Mayor of Pembroke and a Pembrokeshire County Councillor. On 18th June he was convicted at Swansea Crown Court after having been found guilty of r*ping a child, as well as three indecent assaults against her and another young girl.

      In all, after being found guilty of further charges of child abuse, Boswell has been convicted of five charges of child sex offences.

      The attention given to the crimes and their perpetuators was, typically, sharply lacking any real attention in the mainstream media – a fact that did not go amiss on Twitter.’

      https://evolvepolitics.com/two-separate-tory-politicians-have-been-convicted-of-child-sex-offences-in-the-last-48-hours/

      Not quite the same level as ‘sex texting’ is it?

      Whether any indecent and/or illegal shit goes down, it’s up to the authorities to deal with this and it is not acceptable in any political party’s staff, but to use this as some sort of political capital on this forum to insinuate some metric of the SNP’s worth or value and to lay it at the feet of the FM, merely reveals the level of hypocrisy that your are prepared to indulge in to score a cheap point.

      Now go take a flying fuck to yourself, ya hypocritical little fuckwit.

    362. Meg merrilees says:

      Just heard on the BBC that (T)Ruthless Davidson has been put on Boris’ list for a peerage. They just can’t help themselves can they?

      Doesn’t matter how much of a gap before she was proposed it’s just obscene.

    363. admiral says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      6 February, 2020 at 7:26 am
      Just heard on the BBC that (T)Ruthless Davidson has been put on Boris’ list for a peerage. They just can’t help themselves can they?
      Doesn’t matter how much of a gap before she was proposed it’s just obscene.

      So that’s even less time for her long-suffering constituents, as she buggers off regularly to London to bump up her unearned salary as a constituency MSP with trips to London to pick up her £300 a day tax-free bonus. I wonder if she will be howling and screeching about how tough it is and how she isn’t being much of a mother, daughter, sister and partner because “poor me, I’m so busy!”.

    364. admiral says:

      K1 says:
      6 February, 2020 at 4:27 am
      K1 says:
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      6 February, 2020 at 4:22 am
      ‘HYUFD says:
      6 February, 2020 at 12:18 am
      Breaking – sex text scandal involving SNP Finance Minister Derek Mackay and 16 year old boy, boy’s mother says Sturgeon should sack him. Though technically not illegal will be an embarrassment to the First Minister’
      Fuck off you little tory shit stirrer, where are all the ‘breaking stories’ of those in your own party for actual heinous crimes?

      Tory councillor – obscene child porn images? Oh, dear, how sad – but nothing to see.
      Tory MP – perverting the course of justice by interfering in a rape trial? Oh dear, how sad – but nothing to see here.

      Mind you, if it’s true re Derek – FFS, man! It’s the oldest trick in the bloody book. Surely SNP politicians realise by now that the rules are different for them and that they have a huge MSM target on their backs?

      Murray Foote should be running emergency seminars! He’ll need to start earning his corn.

    365. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Anent my most at 02.54.

      As per “the word” from Jackson’s Entry, Derek Mackay HAS now resigned as Finance Secretary and as forecast, before 9am…

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51397956

      Stuart Campbell, you are right about that discomfort when predicted things come about. Absolutely no fun in “I told you so”.

      Fair play to Nicola Sturgeon.

      What is interesting is the Jackson’s Entry friend that got this right has a similar view to Craig Murray when he mentioned Spring Conference.

      Something interesting is going on.

      As that old saying goes: it is hid from sight.

      For now.

      Also, I really do believe Rev Stu is having a PRODUCTIVE few weeks. He may be a little quieter than normal, but you don’t make a brain like that and have it think about golf and retirement.

      Interesting times are this way headed.

      Thank goodness.

    366. admiral says:

      Al-Stuart says:
      6 February, 2020 at 8:35 am
      .
      Anent my most at 02.54.
      As per “the word” from Jackson’s Entry, Derek Mackay HAS now resigned as Finance Secretary and as forecast, before 9am…
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51397956

      Cue total MSM shitstorm. I mean it’s not like he’s done anything illegal, stupid maybe, but not illegal, like lie to the Queen and prorogue parliament unconstitutionally, is it?

    367. Clapper57 says:

      @ Meg merrilees @ 7.26am

      Hi Meg…timing is EVERYTHING….operation demorilisation of the Scots is now in operation….Finance minister story and Ruth D nominated for peerage by Boris J on SAME day….

      Finance minister’s resignation was ‘Breaking News’on BBC 1 Breakfast programme News AND GMB Main news this morning…no doubt also on SKY main news….this is only the start……note we always make the MAIN news when tis #SNPBAD

      Let’s not forget married Tory (now EX) MP’s Andrew Griffiths sexting two women with over 2000 texts…in 21 days….was CLEARED of wrongdoing….he did not stand for re-election to allow estranged wife to stand…she is now the MP for area he previously held…note he did NOT resign as an MP but did NOT stand to be re-elected in 2019….. He had previously been accused of inappropriate touching and bullying of a Conservative borough councillor and the bullying of the leader of another council as well as his former campaign manager….Theresa May had him reinstated , after a suspension, so that he could vote in HER Brexit deal vote in HOC…..

      Stephen Crabb Tory MP…also married ….sexting a 19 year old woman he had interviewed for a role in his office…said he wanted to kiss the woman everywhere….hmm ..did NOT resign as an MP only resigned as Works and Pension secretary…he is STILL an MP as was re-elected in 2019.

    368. John Thomson says:

      We are up shit creek, now time to take a breather, 42 year old man, is he a man? Lost for words no indy this century the gods have spoken.

    369. John Thomson says:

      Andrew Niel will be discussing Scots finance minister today, for anyone wanting confirmation of no indy this century. Just shoot me now

    370. Davie Oga says:

      8:43am
      “I mean it’s not like he’s done anything illegal”

      It’s very close to illegality. The Scottish government is bound by international treaty, (Lanzerote Convention) to criminalise certain sexual activities involving children under the age of 18, regardless of age of consent.

      One being
      “Abuse is made of a recognised position of trust, authority or influence over the child”

    371. John Thomson says:

      42 year old man versus 16 year old boy, what planet are you on

    372. Republicofscotland says:

      Scot Goes Pop polls also showed that 56% of Scots now think that the Union isn’t a full democracy.

      How right they are.

      On Derek Mackay, who is a bloody idiot, one wonders though if the info on his antics was known earlier but conveniently held back by the unionist media for today Budget day, to cause maximum disruption.

      On the Budget it’s a dereliction of duty by Westminster to not have held their own budget ahead of the devolved administrations, they know fine well the uncertainty this will cause in Scotland.

      A undemocratic union indeed.

    373. sassenach says:

      John Thomson

      One man’s indiscretion will now stop a whole independence movement, in your opinion??

      Grow up.

    374. Davie Oga says:

      The comments above that seem to minimize the pursuit of a 16 year old by a government minister by equating them to typical tory sleaze between adults are disturbing.

      There needs to be a serious clear out at the top of the party if Scotland is to gain independence. Swinney with his anal lessons for kids, Somerville and her self ID nonsense, and of course, the Queen of Mandates and her coterie of advisors.

    375. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Admiral, you are right.

      There is ample of this septic stuff to go around. Seriously… Tory PM David Cameron and his love of beastial necrophilia that all members of BORIS Johnson’s Bullingdon Club are expected to roger. Oink, oink.

      That creep, Sir Edward Heath had a police file as thick as James Kelly’s nut.

      K1 found a slew of Tory mayors and councillors who would make Sir Jimmy Savile go gammon red.

      The LibDems have Sir Cyril Smith and Jeremy Thorpe et al.

      Labour have so many perverts you could fill a whole Wing at Barlinnie.

      But, sadly, this will have SNP-Bad writ large.

      Derek Mackay had an oversized ego and was poor at his job. He squandered £200 million on the CalMac ferry ships. Mackay wanted pocket-rocket ocean liners instead of ferries. Mackay was a poundshop Bruce Ismay.

      More important is the choice of next Finance Secretary. I’ve been told it is to be Shona Robison. With the greatest respect, more of Nicola’s club pals are not a good idea.

      Though whoever Nicola chooses, they will be head and shoulders above the abacus Neanderthals at Sir Jackass Carlaw’s side, or the Soviet politburo member shadow Secretary of Finance from Rodent Leopard’s bunch. As for grinning Wee Willie nay brain. Pass.

      It is important though. The SNP need to get back to Alex Salmond’s vision of how Scotland should be. The position of Finance Secretary is crucial to that. I would prefer John Swinney back in the post

    376. sassenach says:

      If we think that the Britnats will not be throwing everything AND the kitchen sink at us, then you are delusional.

      Just after the polls are showing positives about Indy, this surfaces – coincidence?

      We must realise we are fighting a dirty war against an opposition that will stop at nothing to keep Scotland in it’s prison,while they ‘drain’ us.

      Hit back, talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/02/06/lets-not-forget-that-tories-are-the-real-sex-pests-and-predators/

    377. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      OINK.

    378. tartanfever says:

      So the Yes movement marches for years (thats 8 years now I’ve been going to marches), we donate money and time, we fund blogs to carry out polls that all benefit the SNP. We turn up and support them, we vote for them, we deliver leaflets for them. All to benefit the SNP politically as well as our wider movement.

      And now we’re told to carry on waiting – that there is only one route to Indy and we must not complain and now this. What an absolute clusterf**k.

      I tell you, with the SNP it’s 3 steps forward, 2 steps back.

      He should fully resign right now and a by-election called. Cut out the poison, swift and sharp and once and for all.

    379. Clydebuilt says:

      Honey Trap, sex is often used to target thorns in the flesh of the establishment, Parnell, Murray, Assange and Salmond

      Definitive list of Tory sex Pests and Predators

      https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/02/06/lets-not-forget-that-tories-are-the-real-sex-pests-and-predators/

    380. James F. McIntosh says:

      Typical S NP all talk and no action at least the Tory man got his hands inside his victims pants in westminster

    381. jockmcx says:

      another reason why the people will deliver independance
      not politicianss.

      no more wierdo’s standing for public office.

      must be something to do with that parliamentary privelage
      crap.

    382. Pete says:

      Have said for a while now that there is far too much poofery at the top of the SNP.
      Not good.

    383. jockmcx says:

      the labour party crowing for decades that they invented the NHS.

      No they did’nt the war generation did that.

      The scottish generation will deliver independance not
      the SNP

    384. Looks like our new press officer`s first day at work is gonna be a doozy,

      @Dan,

      If you repair old school VWs (mechanical and body) Mustie 1 on You Tube is a fantastic blog,

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMk1rveUnk0

    385. Breeks says:

      How much will it take YES Party? When will you do what needs to be done? You’re beginning to show symptoms of the same energy sapping procrastination that’s so distinctly unappealing in others.

      I cannot find it by searching, but years ago, ahead even of 2014, I absolutely slated the SNP, knowing many of them, 3 at Ministerial level, were feckless and cowardly individuals as revealed to me by their refusal to help my desperate enquiries to them, to the extent that I not only thought them incapable of addressing Local Authority corruption and quangos abusing power, but considered them party to that corruption. They had multiple instances of proof, albeit circumstantial proof, and simply turned their heads away.

      That is where my antithesis towards the SNP comes from. Even threatened with formal complaints under the Parliamentary standards and breach of Ministerial codes, they still wouldn’t lift a finger. The only reason I didn’t seek their downfall was that I believed in Scottish Independence, and felt compelled to endure my injustice for the greater good of Scotland. Sadly, I would still do the same. It wasn’t really a choice.

      Even before the lightbulbs switched on in my head by Robert Peffers, who inspired me to read more about Scotland’s Constitution, even before I knew the story, I despaired that the SNP even in 2013-2014 under Alex Salmond we’re doing well but continually ducking the Constitutional issue of Sovereignty. We were bogged down in issues of currency, when the obvious answer was to focus on Scotland’s Sovereign right to choose whatever currency it wanted.

      I also slated the SNP for their wilful blindness towards the rancid and corrupt media. Scotland at the time was beginning to show the grassroots of its indie Indy Broadcasting capacities; blogs, Indy film makers, Phantom Power, Independence Live, brave YES stalwarts who should be given a hand up. But time and time again, whenever the SNP made a statement and took questions, there was never a feather in the cap for a homegrown journo from Scotland to ask their question first. It’s straight to Toodleoo or ITV for the “important” questions first. I feel the same thing is happening with AUOB marches. Lukewarm nominal support, but not many First Ministers interrupting their schedule to join in.

      You got a few “well said Breeks”, a few “I agree with Breeks”, but nothing I said ever registered with the YES juggernaut. I got more shite and accusations of doing the enemy’s job for them by attacking the sanctified SNP.

      I respected Alex Salmond, hugely. In my opinion, he still made a grave miscalculation over the media, and as I say, weathered the rainstorm of 2014 having left Constitutional umbrella at home on the nightstand, but Alex Salmond was both a statesman and wily old strategic thinking general. In 2013/14, I reckoned the IndyMAX third option on the ballot would have been the death of us, because it seemed a natural vote for undecideds and compromisers. Cut a long story short, Alex Salmond manipulated the Unionists to demand IndyMAX didn’t appear on the ballot. They were done up like kippers, and to this day I still don’t think they ever knew it.

      I’ve been an angry supporter of Indy, peripheral for the most part, although I don’t recall how many YES rally’s and AUOB marches I’ve been on, but I’m not in the SNP, and I’m not in any YES group, largely because of my aversion to the SNP which I simply do not trust.

      My philosophy, like it or loathe it, was to be a savage and outspoken critic of whatever we were doing wrong, in the hope that we would be stung by such hopefully insightful criticism, and do something timely, a corrective measure, before breaking an axle in a pothole we might easily have avoided. Why don’t I attack the Unionists? They said. Why in God’s name would try to steer Unionism away from its own blunders? It was “our” mistakes which weakened us.

      I have tried not to be bitter or angry with people slagging me off, hurling insults and calling me all sorts. It doesn’t matter. I know we’re are a difficult and argumentative kind of people. I’ve seen people in London call the police because two Scots lads in London were having a good natured difference of opinion, but at least one observer thought it might break out into an axe fight at any minute. They fear us, because they don’t understand us.

      My faith in the SNP was never abundant in the first place, but I hoped my anger would mellow and faith would grow. But I fear that’s never going happen. I honestly don’t know whether the greatest risk to Scotland comes from Boris Johnson treading in the colonial footsteps first trod by Edward 1, or the SNP Government so wilfully determined to remain Constitutionally illiterate and see both themselves and Westminster’s colonialism as overlords above the Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland. That looks very ugly, and very stupid to my eye. It feels like common incompetence that is uncommonly dangerous for Scotland.

      Scotland has leadership which by accident or design is leading Scotland to a most unhealthy and dangerous destination. We NEED of Declaration of Arbroath now more than ever… the International Declaration of Independence which secured International recognition of Scotland’s Sovereign legitimacy, and enshrined the right of Scotland’s Sovereign people to drive out ad enemies anybody who threatened our realm.

      We do not need a Second Declaration of Arbroath. The first is more than sufficient. We just need a renewal of our vows, a fresh affirmation of what properly exists already, IN LAW, and the International Community to recognise the Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland as a legitimate thing they should never properly have stopped recognising.

      The political solution to this if failing, having lost it’s way and gotten itself bogged down to the axles. I hope it can sort itself out before the ratification plebiscite, but Scotland, hear me, UNLESS WE DEFEND OUR SOVEREIGN CONSTITUTION FROM THIS ONGOING INSURRECTION, there will never be a plebiscite.

      WE MUST GET THIS RAILROADING OF OUR NATION INTO A CONSTITUTIONAL COURTROOM. There is no alternative. There never was.

    386. SilverDarling says:

      Re Derek Mackay.

      The texts are really inappropriate. This is not a honey trap. DM contacted the boy first and kept the pressure up to meet him and keep in contact. He used leafleting to engineer a meeting even when the boy said he wasn’t that sure about his political stance. He told him to delete his compliment. He knew it was crossing a line. The Sun are scum but this is a story.

      If it were my 16 year old son I would be furious. I cannot believe people think this is in any way acceptable.

    387. Kenny J says:

      Clydebuilt says:
      6 February, 2020 at 9:49 am

      Honey Trap, sex is often used to target thorns in the flesh of the establishment, Parnell, Murray, Assange and Salmond

      Definitive list of Tory sex Pests and Predators

      Only it’s not a honey-trap.
      Or it is in the sense that MacKay was the one doing the honeying.
      Jesus, I’m f***** sick of hearing of the shenanigans at the top of this, my, party. Makes you want to pack-in.
      Have these shit lost any connection to the day to day world. I recon they have. In the rarifyied air at the top of the hill, and all us proles at the bottom.
      This next is Not because of this announcement, but, Ah you say, looking at him on the tele, he appeared to be weak, should be wearing glasses or something, certainly did’nt warm to him.
      Now for the unco-good to descend.
      Yes meeting last night, all raring to go, and now this, Spring Con. perhaps put off.
      Get yourself an summary, or buy it, The March of Folly, Barbera Tuchman, (1911-1989)two times Pulitzer Prize winner. I think it closely describes Ms. Sturgeon and her allies actions.

    388. Clapper57 says:

      Let’s NOT also forget Tory MP ( now Ex MP) Charlie Elphicke who was suspended in 2017 for allegations of sex offences then reinstated by Theresa May to vote in HER Brexit deal in 2018…the reinstatement was then withdrawn in 2019 when he was charged by the CPS and will stand trial in June this year…his WIFE is NOW the new MP for his area……

      Yes Derek McKay was indeed reckless considering his position and now he must pay the price….BUT…there is glass houses and people throwing stones who perhaps should be looking closer to their own respective political homes …..and see that politics is strewn with sexual scandal from which NO political party has NOT encountered their own people in positions of power venturing into murky depths…that includes Labour, Lib Dems….and mucho Tories.

      Let he who is without sin cast the first stone….or in this case…if your political party has form in similar scandals, or indeed worse, then perhaps do not be too quick to take the high moral ground….

    389. Pete says:

      It’s wee boys were talking about here.
      This is the worst of the worst!

    390. Gary45% says:

      I am trying to remember how many cases of sexual misconduct were raised against the Tory party recently (last few years) that simply disappeared from the public view?
      18 or 80 comes to mind.
      If I am wrong I stand corrected.

    391. Clapper57 says:

      @ SilverDarling @ 10.06am

      Hi SilverDarling..hope you are well.

      No it is not okay what he did….and yes Rupert Murdoch’s Sun is scum…..what a mess….but….this story will run, grow legs and ultimately will lead us up to a certain up and coming trial…I predict it will be THE story on Scotland Tonight….it IS a BIG story…but where will they take this story…my money is that this will be presented as the destruction of the Indy movement as they never acknowledge the YES movement is NOT all about the SNP……

      Suddenly..Scotland is THE BIG news today…alas tis for wrong reason…has the 5 million been banked yet re Boris’s campaign to stink bomb the Scots into subservience to the Union…..

    392. John from Fife says:

      Breeks talking a lot of sense if only the SNP would listen.
      Power corrupts etc

    393. Kenny J says:

      Clapper57 says:
      6 February, 2020 at 10:11 am

      Let’s NOT also forget Tory MP ( now Ex MP) Charlie Elphicke who was suspended in 2017 for allegations of sex offences then reinstated by Theresa May to vote in HER Brexit deal in 2018…the reinstatement was then withdrawn in 2019 when he was charged by the CPS and will stand trial in June this year…his WIFE is NOW the new MP for his area……

      It dos’nt matter a flying f**** what other parties people do. You know that any indiscretion in the Indy movement as a whole gets jumped on. And blown up by the Loyalist shower of shit.
      MacKay trying to seduce a 16 year old. F**** hell. If I was the boys faither I might like a word with MacKay, living in Bishopton with his boyfriend, maybe looking for something new, might be a bust-up there.
      Wait till the rumour of Conference hits the fan.
      Any underdog, and threat to any system, has to be dealt with.

    394. Abulhaq says:

      The fruits of Sturgeon’s worldview are bitter.
      She is arrogant.
      She is no longer an asset.
      She and her ‘select’ coterie have to go.

    395. Bob Mack says:

      No argument.Wbat McKay did was utterly uncceptable.

      Perhaps though it is just symptomatic of what Stu has been stating for some time now, that rather than breaking the mould, the party are becoming the mould.

      The old adage “Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely”,might hold some truth.

    396. John Thomson says:

      Sassenach @ 9:32am

      It’s not just one man’s indiscretion, the list is long and varied.

      Open your eyes, i thought self ID was bad but now those at the top think it’s ok and fair game to go after 16 year old boys.

      Seems that indy is now a distant thought in the eyes of those at the top. Indiscretions christ is that what it is called now.

      Pete @ 10:15 totally agree

    397. It`s like when you lift an old plant pot in the garden and all these slaters start madly running around in all directions.

    398. Mist001 says:

      Mackay is a warning shot to Sturgeon. If she makes any ripples, she’ll be dragged from her closet faster than a junkie spends their giro.

      She is seriously compromised because like Mackay, she duped people by getting married for public appearance. The pink mafia’s in town and don’t you forget it. She has to do their bidding, hence the ‘woke’ agenda, the gender fiasco, the lack of movement for independence and sticking Alex Salmond in.

      I’ll bet there’s something in the budget that the ‘woke’ brigade disagree with and that’s why Mackay hit the papers today.

    399. SilverDarling says:

      @Bob Mack

      There is something kind of rotten just now. Social media conversations from the Stirling lot that defy belief played out in public as if that majority in Stirling gives them invisibility and invincibility. Stonewall determining policy. Women MSPs decried and denigrated for expressing concern. A protective bubble where Civil Servants are delivering policy announcements and showing their overt bias with no insight as to how it looks from the outside.

      And now this.

      Seriously though, this is a safeguarding issue that transcends party politics. and indicates a worrying lack of judgement or a feeling that normal rules don’t apply to him. Nicola Sturgeon must suspend him, it is not enough to accept an apology and move on.

      Reminds me of John Major’s last months in power.

    400. Bill McLean says:

      Never forget what the aim of the vast majority who post here is! We knew none of this would be easy – Britain has form in causing trouble for anyone who wants to leave the fold. Why are they so scared of being on their own? What Mackay did is totally unacceptable and he should resign his seat as well as his post. Watch out for the hypocrites from south of the border who will appear soon but above all never forget where we want to go and that is away from these hypocrites and to running our own country in a way which we know will be better!

    401. Abulhaq says:

      In scandals whether sexual or financial mud sticks….to everybody and everything.
      Nothing but a deep clean can fix this.
      Perhaps the party’s founding purpose might once again be revealed.
      Go, and take your ‘baggage’ with you!

    402. Fireproofjim says:

      Frankly this is disastrous for the general perception of the SNP, and by implication the whole Yes movement.
      What a fool.

    403. iain mhor says:

      @Dan

      Deary me, you must be driven by some compulsion to keep messing with a TR7 engine. I’m assuming aiming for concourse condition – anyone I know stuck a different engine in!

      I’ll add a tuppence as a Landy idiot – my love is hydraulics. Dunno how relevant it is in future (this may be egg sooking and grannies) but I’d rig up a bottle jack and with jiggery pokery for angles and fitting against your shifter of choice – tickle whatever it is out (studs) or (with a couple of heavy plates bolted on) the head up – Well, across for a TR7 lol!

      The problem with ‘Shifting’ is pressure consistency and the old mechanical sympathy. We mere impatient mortals can’t hold a slight, constant pressure long enough… ‘tink’..shite!
      But with a bit of constant hydraulic pressure; I’ve sat with a cuppa for half an hour and hypnotically watched eg. studs moving almost imperceptibly (the tiny rust flake, grit moving etc being the only indication) Plus you can also see if your chosen ‘shifting tool’ is doing the moving and threatening to strip faces instead!

      Anyway, If you can rig the bottle jack/s up (the biggest challenge!) dial in a bit of pressure and leave it alone – then with the odd increase, and occasional tapping/ heat/ penetrant – you may have deep joy.
      It can take a good while, but man, it’s worth it! If only to tap the nose and go “Ahaa..” when yer mates say ‘How the fek did you get that out!?’

      I suppose I’d better be topical – errr, Finance Minister resigns – who cares? Not me

    404. Breeks says:

      Irrespective of political allegiance, we are beginning to see a fundamental weakness behind simply having one pro Independence Party in Scotland.

      Where do Independence supporters regroup to find safety from the SNP? To whom do we defect or are we all doomed to die in the flames of party hubris?

    405. callmedave says:

      Hmm! “I see the good old sun is out today” said Icarus.

      Aye the other side have a litany of ‘indiscretions’right enough but FGS! this so wrong in itself and a feast for the MSM, not to mention a let down for all who toil away on behalf of the SNP and Independence workers. 🙁

    406. Jomry says:

      Breeks,
      I seem to remember reading recently about the fact that an “Independence Scotland” party has just been registered with the appropriate registration body – so who knows?

    407. Pete says:

      Somebody told me he was shacked up with the STV weather man.
      True or false?

    408. Breeks says:

      If we’re contemplating setting up rooms for drug addicts to inject themselves more safely, is there any chance of setting up some similar wee rooms so that Independence and EU Supporters can withdraw from public view and have a quiet wee cry to themselves?

    409. Phydaux says:

      I have been biding my time, of late, with regard to the SNP’s “strategies “ towards Independence. Stuart’s last article was very powerful and heartbreakingly true and articulated some of my own thoughts and feelings. Like many others who have done lots of “ heavy lifting “ to get the SNP elected, I feel disrespected, marginalised and demeaned by the false promises they made.

      The revelations about Derek Mackay are sickening, an abuse of power and predatory in nature…how long has it been going on, one wonders. How many other secrets and lies in our elected politicians? Having worked as a social worker for over 30 years in child protection and criminal justice, now happily retired, I know from experience that deviant predatory ( mostly ) males never stop.

      I am also deeply concerned, as is Stuart, by all the “ woke” gender crap, which Stuart has exposed with courage and truth and been subjected to vitriol and abuse. If self ID goes ahead, this will allow ( mostly ) deviant predatory males to present very real dangers and risks to women and children in ways I cannot begin to fathom. If this goes ahead, my diminishing trust in the SNP will be gone for good.

    410. Clapper57 says:

      @ Kenny J @ 10.26am

      “It dos’nt matter a flying f**** what other parties people do. You know that any indiscretion in the Indy movement as a whole gets jumped on. And blown up by the Loyalist shower of shit”

      “MacKay trying to seduce a 16 year old”.

      Yes it DOES matter what other parties do because, to quote you, the “loyalist shower of shit” support these “other” parties …..and they conveniently ignore their many “indiscretions” as you put it…

      As to MacKay trying to seduce a 16 year old when he himself is 42 and in a position of trust..yes that is reprehensible…not disagreeing with you there….with the age difference and McKay behaving in such a selfish and immoral manner then yes it is indeed unforgivable….the fact that the boy is 16…well let’s remember we were all stating not that long ago it was right that 16 years old should be given the vote…Christ I will get crucified for stating that no doubt…BUT and I repeat BUT I am not condoning this incident for those currently apoplectic with rage…..

    411. admiral says:

      Fireproofjim says:
      6 February, 2020 at 11:22 am
      Frankly this is disastrous for the general perception of the SNP, and by implication the whole Yes movement.
      What a fool.

      Inexcusable conduct by Derek, who should have known better but to impute his behaviour to all independence supporters is really a stretch.

      For some reason the likes of Ross Thomson can sexually assault other MPs and it’s no biggie, or Frank McAveety can perv over a 15 year old schoolgirl and it’s no biggie, David Steel can cover up paedophile Cyril Smith’s activities for years on end and it’s no biggie, Thatcher can cover up numerous Tory MPs sexual peccadilloes, along with Tory supporter Jimmy Savile, and it’s no biggie, but heaven help any SNP politician that does the same.

    412. SilverDarling says:

      @Clapper57 10.24 am

      Hi there, hope you are well.

      Yes there is a bigger story here and make no mistake it will be used against the SNP as a whole unless they have a clear out. I said earlier it reminds me of John Major’s govt. when he was trying to promote ‘Family values’. I think in trying to be ‘inclusive’ safeguards have been sacrificed and the whole atmosphere at the top of the SNP is out of step with reality.

      However, the FM seems to be acting now and acting decisively. Maybe she can see what we are seeing.

    413. Kenny J says:

      Not only has he attempted to seduce a 16 yearold, but, shades of Mr. Trump, he, if the reporting and my reading of it are correct, appears to have tried to use his position as a lever as well. I suppose you could say, at least it was not a female targetted.
      Corruption in the SNP, where,s the Weary Willies noo.

    414. SilverDarling says:

      I think the difference now is that the SNP are wounded and press can smell blood so they are going for the kill.

      There has never been a level playing field for sexual indiscretion, financial impropriety or accusations of anti-semitism in Scottish politics. The SNP knew that and some had maybe become complacent about their establishment status assuming they might be afforded the same discretion that Tories, Labour and LibDems appear to have received historically.

      Do we really want that though? I would rather all the Derek Mackays were cleared out root and branch before the next election otherwise they really are the same as everyone else.

      We need another independence party soon.

    415. Clapper57 says:

      @ SilverDarling @ 12.15pm

      Hi SilverDarling, yes I am well….all things considered.

      Once again you, as usual, give a measured and fair comment….where as me…well I play with fire it would appear ….may I burn in Hell for the right to continue holding an OPINION and then expressing it…..rightly or wrongly.

      Have as good a day as you can…all things considered.

    416. Republicofscotland says:

      So far not one positive remark or question about Scotland from the unionist MSP’s at FMQ’s. Even the Greens had a go at our NHS.

      How those unionist MSP’s, and the Greens for that matter, can sleep at night I’ll never know.

    417. Kenny J says:

      Is there the power of *recall* in Holyrood. I have no idea. This guy should be out on his arse, as
      *Phydaux says:
      6 February, 2020 at 11:57 am

      I have been biding my time, of late, with regard to the SNP’s “strategies “ towards Independence. Stuart’s last article was very powerful and heartbreakingly true and articulated some of my own thoughts and feelings. Like many others who have done lots of “ heavy lifting “ to get the SNP elected, I feel disrespected, marginalised and demeaned by the false promises they made.*

      This will not have been the first time this character has done this, they are serially predatory.
      Christ, I sound like a bigot, which I am not.

    418. cirsium says:

      @Breeks, 11.55
      is there any chance of setting up some similar wee rooms so that Independence and EU Supporters can withdraw from public view and have a quiet wee cry to themselves?

      No way, Breeks. This does not make me want to whimper, it makes me want to roar with anger. “supine, directionless dissembling” last Friday, the cuckoo in the nest breaking cover on Twitter (see twathater’s comment, 6.24, 5 February) and now this.

      What Independence supporters need to do is get down to their local YES group, keep working and join the street gatherings and marches.

    419. Colin Alexander says:

      How much longer will the war for Scotland’s democratic and sovereign rights be held back and damaged by the colonial SNP administration at Holyrood?

      The SNP ARE NOT the leaders of the indy movement: they act as a brake, a hindrance and damage the reputation of Scotland and the indy movement.

      Shame on anyone who attempts at deflection and whitabootery about Manky McKay’s conduct.

      Despite my dismay for Nicola Sturgeon on her handling of independence and sovereignty, she said the right things at FM’s questions and refused to make any excuses or deflection for Mr McKay’s disgraceful and shameful conduct.

      However, Nicola appointed him to the job; another example of where Nicola’s judgment is poor.

      Sturgeon should step down as leader.

    420. Abulhaq says:

      @admiral
      Could it simply be that we have much more to lose?
      Like Caesar’s wife we ought to be seen to be above such ignoble behaviour.
      Let the establishment wallow in its filth, its natural home, not ours.
      The National party has been allowed too much much rope, now it seems to be hanging itself.
      Next stage the burial?
      Might we expect a resurrection?
      Of course! Whatever happens ‘they’ cannot take away our hope.

    421. Dan says:

      @iain mhor

      What can I say other than I like a challenge. Plus it’s interesting to look at engineered products and wonder what folk that came up with the design were thinking when they deviated from accepted basic engineering concepts and configurations.
      I look at the Indy movement from a similar perspective in that we need sensible, logical, and practical methods to progress our cause, and it ain’t helpful when folk on oor side throw or drop a spanner it the works…

      I’ve had to use ingenuity to make and modify the equipment I need to do the work on this engine. Similarly the Indy movement need to do that too as folk seem to forget the master’s tools won’t dismantle the master’s hoose!

      With you on application of force, I actually managed to wedge in a jack at either end of the engine to lift the original head off the block a little. Enough to get in and cut the remaining head seized studs as the head couldn’t continue to be lifted on the line of the studs as they are at an angle so the head would not clear the timing chain. A load of hassle caused by needless shit design.
      We used to use hydraulic pressure intensifiers offshore. Interesting how with a base working pressure of 3000psi in a system, you can use this to increase pressure to 10000psi through innovative design. Scienz!

      Oh, re. Politicians and their backgrounds. I understand Dave Doogan SNP MP for Angus worked as an aircraft engineer before going to uni and studying politics. So yes he went to uni, but looks like that was a later choice to get into politics rather than straight in from the off.

    422. Pete says:

      People at the top of politics should be of the ‘maw, paw and the bairns’ variety.
      Okay, some will fail but at least they will know how ‘normal’families operate.
      No time for McKay, Davidson, Mundell, Freeman and those of that ilk.

    423. Hamerdoon says:

      From Breeks

      “WE MUST GET THIS RAILROADING OF OUR NATION INTO A CONSTITUTIONAL COURTROOM. There is no alternative. There never was.”

      So obvious, it’s been deliberately hidden in plain sight.

      Been of the same opinion for a while and I think someone has initiated a constitutional ‘discussion’ at the legal level re indy2 –

      http://r.mail.crowdjustice.co.uk/mk/mr/CZ1ZgrVXxvOmtLP7pnk8d1PpTdSOFY4vbuAOfF7CP4omYinOta-BSO0uc9N8c7wPeIG8cf_-NmSobs-fMs7_xYd7nOzsLEopmJA_ARPCzfTsbw7g8SIo

    424. SilverDarling says:

      @Kenny J

      I don’t see you as a bigot , just as someone who recognises predatory behaviour. We need to shout about safeguards.

      This is not about sexuality – if it was a girl approached by a heterosexual man we would hopefully all be just as disgusted. Bigot is thrown around too much these days when our instincts tell us something is just wrong.

    425. Republicofscotland says:

      Well that’s it over FMQ’s, and still not a positive word from the unionist and Green MSP’s about Scotland in general.

    426. SilverDarling says:

      @Pete

      You,on the other hand, are a bigot.

    427. Breeks says:


      cirsium says:
      6 February, 2020 at 12:41 pm

      No way, Breeks. This does not make me want to whimper, it makes me want to roar with anger…

      Take it from somebody hoarse from roaring. Don’t roar. Bite.

      Work unstintingly to get the validity of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, and fallacy of the Westminster’s sovereign convention put before the UN and Council of Europe.

    428. Pete says:

      Silver Darling
      Totally agree and proud of it.
      No time for deviants.

    429. Breeks says:


      Hamerdoon says:
      6 February, 2020 at 12:48 pm

      Been of the same opinion for a while and I think someone has initiated a constitutional ‘discussion’ at the legal level re indy2 –

      Full marks for their effort, but that litigation is almost entirely centred upon getting an IndyRef through the Scotland Act and the limited powers given to a devolved assembly. It will test, perhaps, the constitution of Holyrood written in the 90’s, but it will never touch upon the sovereign constitution of Scotland written 700 years ago and which secured International Recognition in 1328.

      I am talking about a much bigger and more fundamental Constitutional Test Case centred upon Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, the absolute binary nature of it.

      The Scotland Act is colonial legislation which seeks to provide legitimacy for Westminster having power over Scotland. Scotland should have a bonfire of all such colonial legislation, step away from Westminster AND Holyrood, and call a sitting of Scotland’s Parliament that is NOT answerable to the Scotland Act, Sewel Convention, nor any other device of Westminster, but answers only to the sovereign people of Scotland and is consistent with Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty.

    430. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Of course Mackay has been a complete and utter tube. Having been suspended from the SNP, he really ought to resign his seat. His conduct is indefensable.

      But, the beahviour of the Opposition leaves a lot to be desired. Jackass Carless, a Tory, in full Holy Wullie mode – boak! Boak!

    431. admiral says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      6 February, 2020 at 12:35 pm
      So far not one positive remark or question about Scotland from the unionist MSP’s at FMQ’s. Even the Greens had a go at our NHS.
      How those unionist MSP’s, and the Greens for that matter, can sleep at night I’ll never know.

      Well, it’s quite straightforward really. If your political USP is “too wee, too poor, too stupid” it really doesn’t behove you to start disproving and undermining your own raison d’etre by saying anything positive at all about Scotland. To be a Yoon is to be a constant, doom-laden naysayer.

    432. Hamerdoon says:

      Breeks

      Yes, I understand your position. I was only giving some additional info.

      More power to your elbow. I’ve been reading what you write about this for a while.

    433. Breeks says:

      I wasn’t being critical at all Hamerdoon. Not even critical of the action, but just expressing caution that it’s not going to be the answer.

      The question I am trying to figure out, but struggling to answer frankly, is that if we have a devolved Scottish Government that is content to be contained by the rules and conditions of ‘devolved’ power, not sovereign Scottish power, and outside of this Holyrood, we suddenly have a Scottish Constitutional Convention of (————-‘s), MP’s? MSP’s? I’m not sure what, but “A” Scottish Convention which pledges itself to the Ancient Constitutional Sovereignty of Auld Scotland, and does not answer to any Westminster legislation, then, in definitive detail, I wonder which constitutional body would have the better claim to call itself the “true” Scottish Government?

    434. Gary45% says:

      Not to worry, just saw a bumble bee in the garden.

    435. James says:

      “Pete” – “People at the top of politics should be of the ‘maw, paw and the bairns’ variety.
      Okay, some will fail but at least they will know how ‘normal’families operate.
      No time for McKay, Davidson, Mundell, Freeman and those of that ilk.”

      Contrary to what you read in your copy of The Sun 90%+ of adults who are predatory towards children ARE of the ‘maw, paw and the bairns’ variety. Idiot.

    436. CameronB Brodie says:

      From the perspective of political epistemology, Britain can no longer be considered a social democracy. By continuing to stand under the authority of British constitutional law, the SNP indicates it lacks an understanding and respect for, though not exclusively, constitutional law, the Law of Persons, and the principle of universal human rights. That’s woke-nats for you. Full text.

      The Epistemology of Democracy

      Abstract

      This paper investigates the epistemic powers of democratic institutions through an assessment of three epistemic models of democracy: the Condorcet Jury Theorem, the Diversity Trumps Ability Theorem, and Dewey’s experimentalist model.

      Dewey’s model is superior to the others in its ability to model the epistemic functions of three constitutive features of democracy: the epistemic diversity of participants, the interaction of voting with discussion, and feedback mechanisms such as periodic elections and protests.

      It views democracy as an institution for pooling widely distributed information about problems and policies of public interest by engaging the participation of epistemically diverse knowers. Democratic norms of free discourse, dissent, feedback, and accountability function to ensure collective, experimentally-based learning from the diverse experiences of different knowers. I illustrate these points with a case study of community forestry groups in South Asia, whose epistemic powers have been hobbled by their suppression of women’s participation.

      https://muse.jhu.edu/article/209431

    437. CameronB Brodie says:

      Without epistemic integrity, constitutional law becomes a vehicle for political authoritarianism. Both Brexit and gender-ideology require an anti-foundationalist epistemology, which is detached from empirical reality and turns the law into a vehicle for totalitarianism. Full text.

      Epistemic democracy and the quality of government
      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23745118.2018.1515873

    438. CameronB Brodie says:

      And here’s a bit more social epistemology. Full text.

      The Epistemic Ideal of Reason-Giving in Deliberative Democracy, A Reply to Landemore, Simone Chambers
      https://social-epistemology.com/2017/10/31/the-epistemic-ideal-of-reason-giving-in-deliberative-democracy-a-reply-to-landemore-simone-chambers/

    439. Hamerdoon says:

      Hi Breeks

      I absolutely knew you weren’t being critical. Apologies if my response appeared defensive.

      It’s an interesting question to pose. In effect, are we sovereign or not. If not, then we will need to explore other avenues to becoming independent. If we are, then we are in a position to determine our own constitutional settlement and free to change it as and when we like, depending on the route/rules we choose. It’s as much a psychological power question as it is legal.

      Without this question being addressed, we never really get to define the field of battle, we are always fighting on their chosen ground – another psychological issue.

    440. Breeks says:

      It’s quite a conundrum to have on one side, a devolved body properly elected to office, but deferential to Westminster’s rules and faux sovereignty, and to propose on the other side, an unelected Convention which is pledged solely to defend the binary principle of Scotland’s Constitution and Sovereignty of the people, and assume a roll for itself something like the roll of William Wallace, Guardian of Scotland.

      Even if that was a coup, technically, our Constitution explicitly gives us the right to depose a leader who sells out Scotland’s interests to English rule. So would it still be a coup if it is warranted action backed with Constitutional legitimacy? Hmmmm…

      I always assumed, indeed I took it for granted that the SNP, even though I didn’t like them, would ‘morph’ into that “Sovereignty recognising” Constitutional body, and take to the air as our fully fledged Scottish Government, but the more these events unfold, the less airworthy the SNP looks and the less suited to the roll it appears.

      Perhaps, and I mean perhaps for arguments sake, it would be better for the Devolved Government to sink with it’s devolved assembly and devolved colonial Scotland Act, and the new Constitutional body to defend our sovereign rights starts from first principle with a blank page.

      The “Constitutional Body” for want of a better title, would constitute itself simply by defending the Scottish Constitution. Isn’t that ultimately the roll of government anyway? I hear the pitter patter of tiny feet from outraged democrats, but a ratification plebiscite ought to resolve that issue fairly quickly.

      The democratic plebiscite would have to be extremely quick, because there would be alarming parallels between a “Constitutional Body” seizing power and promising elections to form a new government , and say, a Junta of Military Generals doing the same thing. Yeah, see? It’s not so clever when you put it like that…

      After due consideration, I hate to break it to you Scotland. I think we’ve got to fix the SNP, somehow make it obedient to Scottish Sovereignty, and keep them in the driving seat until we’re across the line. How do we do that? Well, first, I think we need to take Joanna Cherry for a few pints…

    441. CameronB Brodie says:

      Would someone please get this in front of the SNP management? They appear not to understand the party is being destroyed from within, by those supportive of introducing gender-ideology into law.

      European Journal of Political Theory
      https://thephilosophypaperboy.com/feeds/european-journal-of-political-theory/

    442. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here’s another the SNP management needs to be aware of, INHO.

      Realism and international law: the challenge of John H. Herz
      https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/50671081.pdf

    443. Fireproofjim says:

      CameronB Brodie
      Now up to 89 posts on this thread. Selfish indulgence.

    444. Fireproofjim says:

      Sorry CBB. now 90 posts

    445. CameronB Brodie says:

      Fireproofjim
      So have you availed yourself of any of the knowledge I’ve linked to, or do you already think you know it all?

    446. Liz g says:

      Some of the comments I’ve seen across Indy site’s this morning seem to have thing’s a bit arse backwards.
      Predatory men have always and will always be with us.
      What has happened with this guy is EXACTLY what should happen to every last one of them.
      Caught exposed and actions taken well before things got any farther.
      I’d like to think had the National or any of the Indy Bloggers gotten this story they would have done the same thing and published.
      And published no matter the proximity to any bloody budget!

      We can do very little to eradicate predatory people getting in to positions of power in our politics… But we can do lot’s to stymie their behaviour…
      This morning is one of the rare mornings I don’t want equal treatment from the British Nationalist Media!
      When it comes to deviants getting into Scotland’s parliament any and all media can fill their boots exposing them,as far as I’m concerned.

      I never want the protections that Westminster and The Royals get to infect Holyrood with the sort of immunity that the Pedo Prince enjoys.
      There is no wrong time to run with these stories either,maximum impact is what they should get.
      I want the MSM to go into overdrive to keep our parliament decent, they do it for free anyway.
      I want the people in power to worry that they Will exposed for any wrong doing.
      That’s a good thing, and the YES movement should be proud to point to it happening!
      The Indy politicians don’t get away with this shit,,,And that’s just how we like it should be the position this morning, I’d say….

      I’d only criticise here if the media don’t have a care for the Laddie going forward.
      If I know anything of teenagers ( and I do to my cost 🙂 )
      this boy will be cringing and the people round him will struggle to convince him he did the right thing…
      So, can some of us at least temper our comments and include that sentiment ?
      ….. Who ever you are Son, well done, I’m glad you said something 🙂 .

    447. cirsium says:

      @Breeks, 2.11
      Well, first, I think we need to take Joanna Cherry for a few pints…

      Sounds like a plan to me, Breeks. From the court case, it is clear that Joanna Cherry believes that the Scottish people are sovereign.

    448. CameronB Brodie says:

      Here a learners guide to ‘liberal’ democracy. Fill your boots peeps, that includes you, Fireproofjim. Full text.

      Obviously, Britain can no longer be considered a social democracy, so British constitutional law no longer retains legal force over Scotland. It is simply political acquiescence that binds Scotland to Westminster law.

      Deliberative and Epistemic Approaches to Democracy

      Abstract

      Deliberative and epistemic approaches to democracy are two important dimensions of contemporary democratic theory. This chapter studies these dimensions in the emerging ecosystem of civic and political participation tools, and appraises their collective value in a new distinct concept: linked democracy.

      Linked democracy is the distributed, technology-supported collective decision-making process, where data, information and knowledge are connected and shared by citizens online.

      Innovation and learning are two key elements of Athenian democracies which can be facilitated by the new digital technologies, and a cross-disciplinary research involving computational scientists and democratic theorists can lead to new theoretical insights of democracy.

      Keywords
      Deliberative democracy Epistemic democracy Semantic web Institutions Participatory ecosystems

      https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-13363-4_2

    449. Republicofscotland says:

      I don’t recall Jackson Carlaw CBE, pontificating about octopus hands Ross Thomson at FMQ’s in the past. Of course Mackay is a fool and deserved to be removed from office and the party.

    450. Almond Chutney says:

      Didn’t realize Wings turned into a homophobic shit-show now.

      Oh wait… sorry my bad, it was always like that.

    451. admiral says:

      Abulhaq says:
      6 February, 2020 at 12:42 pm
      @admiral
      Could it simply be that we have much more to lose?
      Like Caesar’s wife we ought to be seen to be above such ignoble behaviour.

      I accept that bad behaviour by an individual is immutable and there is no moral equivalence in saying “they do it, too”. Everyone who represents the SNP has to realise that there is a huge target on their backs from the first day they are elected and behave accordingly. We should expect the highest standards of personal and professional propriety in all our public servants, but equally we should expect that our “independent, objective” MSM should hold them all to account equally.

    452. Colin Alexander says:

      I see a flaw in the plan:

      Joanna Cherry has a boss: Toom Tabard Nicola Sturgeon.

      Also, I hae ma doots that Ms Cherry would want to be party leader.

      I think too much pressure comes with that job.

      Colonial FM, Party leader and supposed leader of the indy movement is too much for one person.

      They are three separate and in some cases conflicting job roles.

    453. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond Chutney
      Society is still filled with those who feel they can judge an individual by there employment status, sexuality, and such. WOS is no exception btl, but that is not the identity of WOS.

      So do you still doubt the value of ethical reason? Recanted you position re. the Natural Law, or are you simply trolling?

    454. Juteman says:

      I only know one person in my social circle that is gay, and hardly any working class folk I know seem to be gay. I couldn’t give a fuck what anyones sexual preference is, but why does being gay seem to be needed to be an SNP bigwig?
      Why does it seem like 90% of SNP office bearers are gay, but in real life gay folk are a tiny minority?

    455. Golfnut says:

      @ Liz g.

      Well said Liz, I’m angry, not just at what he has attempted to do, but for the betrayal of trust, our trust. He was without doubt considered to be a challenger one day for the post of FM, thank god( or whoever) that he has been exposed now.

    456. Golfnut says:

      @ Breeks.

      Gets my vote. I cannot understand why so many people appear to be ‘comfortable’ with Westminster attempt to disregard the legal sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

    457. CameronB Brodie says:

      And a bit more political epistemology, for those who cling to the idea that Britain is a social democracy. Full text.

      Assessing the epistemic quality of democratic decision-making
      in terms of adequate support for conclusions

      Abstract
      How can we assess the epistemic quality of democratic decision-making? Sceptics doubt such assessments are possible, as they must rely on controversial substantive standards of truth and rightness. Challenging that scepticism, this paper suggests a procedure-independent standard for assessing the epistemic quality of democratic decision-making by evaluating whether it is adequately supported by reasons.

      Adequate support for conclusion is a necessary (but insufficient on its own) aspect of epistemic quality for any epistemic justification of democracy, though particularly relevant to theories that emphasize public deliberation. Finding existing methods for measuring the quality of public discourse to fall short, we draw on an epistemological theory of argumentation to provide a more sophisticated approach to evaluating the epistemic quality of democratic decision-making, illustrate how the approach can be used, and demonstrate its relevance for the epistemic turn in democratic theory.

      Keywords
      Epistemic democracy, deliberative democracy, epistemological theory of argumentation, argument schemes, support adequacy, discourse quality.

      https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/44e0/d681bb0d2ca3d91de7ea057385f911cf34ad.pdf

    458. Graeme says:

      Juteman says:
      6 February, 2020 at 3:09 pm

      I only know one person in my social circle that is gay, and hardly any working class folk I know seem to be gay. I couldn’t give a fuck what anyones sexual preference is, but why does being gay seem to be needed to be an SNP bigwig?
      Why does it seem like 90% of SNP office bearers are gay, but in real life gay folk are a tiny minority?

      ——————————————————————

      I couldn’t have put that better myself in fact if I’m being honest frightened to try, but I’m glad you said it because I’ve been asking myself the same question for a long time now, I run a small business in Dundee and know literally hundreds of people and I can only name one I know is gay

    459. Pete says:

      Liz g and Juteman
      Both of you are absolutely bang on the money.
      I salute you.
      At last, some common sense and support for decency.

    460. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pete
      The tone and content of your posts has indicated your political outlook tends towards reactionary Torydum. Subsequently, I don’t think you’re in any position of moral superiority to critique the moral outlook of others. What’s you position re. austerity, Brexit and the “Law of Persons”, btw?

      Liberty, Justice, and the Rule of Law
      https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1216&context=yjlh

    461. Almond Chutney says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      6 February, 2020 at 3:09 pm

      I’m not denying that I’m trolling, if you would prefer to view it that way, but aren’t we all trolling with our differing opinions and woeful accusations to one another?

      Okay, Wings itself probably isn’t ‘homophobic’, but it does seem to attract a lot of anti-gay views, just reading a lot of the comments on this thread alone tells me that.

      Also, stop trying to force your natural law thesis on me, I don’t care for it, unfortunately.

    462. Liz g says:

      Almond Chutney @ 3.04
      Are you calling Wee Ginger Dug a liar?
      He swore on oath in court that Wings wasn’t homophobic.
      Are you saying the Judge who examined all the testimony and found that Wings wasn’t homophobic is also lying?

      Your really not good at this trolling malarkey …if you really want yer Union go find an actual argument for why we should stay….

    463. Breeks says:

      A further point too… or rather a bit more thinking out loud…

      It’s seductive to think that a Constitutional Court would just recognise the legitimacy of Scottish Constitution Sovereignty and dismiss the “Convention of Sovereignty” of the Union. I actually think it would do just that, but, it is quite plausible that a Constitutional Court finding merit in Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty, could also recognise at least some lawful merit in a convention which purports to share or loan out that sovereignty. The Union has survived for over 300 years after all…

      So, I find it hard to believe a Court Case would render Scottish Sovereignty extinct, but it could be that the outcome of a Constitutional Court Case is that it acknowledges the existence of Scottish Sovereignty, but that it also accepts that the Union’s case that a Sovereignty by Convention did also exist, was agreed by mutual consent, and was even democratically ratified in 2014.

      So, a word of caution, don’t go to Court if you’re worried the Court might affirm the validity of the Union, because it’s not impossible that it would. But don’t worry, even in that worst day in Court for Scotland, you’d have a new and modern legal affirmation that Scottish Sovereignty still exists, even if it is trapped inside of a recognised convention. Straight away, you’d be entitled to know the explicit nature of that convention. The judgement too is still an affirmation that Scots are sovereign, and would be at liberty to leave that convention if they so desired, and would also, arguably, have a legitimate sovereign veto on all UK legislation.

      So, I think it’s a safe bet Scottish Sovereignty would survive a Constitutional Court Case intact. I think the chances would be remote, but the Union provided it can make a credible case for the sovereign convention it lives by, might just about survive too, but like the recent case where Joanna Cherry asked a poignant question and held Boris Johnson to account over the prorogation of Westminster, I think it is highly likely the biggest “loser” in any Constitutional Court battle would be Westminster’s unwritten and uncodified Constitution whereby Westminster presumes it can simply make up the rules as it goes. That would come to an end.

      But that isn’t the end of the matter. A Court Case which requires the UK Union to be properly codified and the “Convention on Sovereignty” explicitly set out to allay all ambiguity and uncertainty would require that Union, (Westminster) to reconcile the Gordian Knot of how two fundamentally incompatible sovereignties somehow become one, without one Sovereignty subjugating the other. The short answer is it cannot be done.

      And when a thing cannot be done, it is not possible for any court to enforce it, so any such legal contract would be set aside as void and unenforceable. Thus, even if the Constitutional Court Case recognised legal merit in the UK’s contrived Constitution, the Union, Westminster, would have to prove it could do what it purported to do, and reveal to International scrutiny the mechanism whereby the principle of Scottish Sovereignty can be legitimately overruled by an “equal” sovereignty that is recognised as “equal” under the same convention.

      How does a Constitutional Equal in a bipartite Treaty become an “Inferior” by any fair and legal “Convention” unless that convention is actually the unconstitutional subjugation of a cosignatory who is manifestly less than equal? You have an unenforceable paradox.

      I therefore do not think a Constitutional Courtroom could endorse the UK Union as an enforceable contact or convention. I think the UK Union would be declared void and unenforceable, and the Independence of Scottish Sovereignty would ultimately be affirmed.

    464. CameronB Brodie says:

      Almond Chutney
      If you reject the Natural Law, you reject ethical reason and can not be considered supportive of democracy. Liberal constitutionalism is justified through natural law, which is respectful of epistemological pluralism, which characterises the diversity of open society.

      Start learning dude, your political understanding appears to be grounded in mince.

      The Defence of Natural Law
      https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bfm%3A978-1-349-22359-6%2F1.pdf

    465. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks et al –

      Talking of going for pints…

      At the behest of BDTT I have booked Dow’s, Glasgow, for Saturday May 2nd. Up the stairs.

      Details will appear here, and on Off-Topic, as and when decided.

      Hoots all.

      😉

    466. Abulhaq says:

      @Admiral 15:05
      It’s a big ask but we must strive to be better than ‘them’.
      It is inevitable that we shall be judged more harshly.
      It’s not, to use the anglicism, ‘fair’ but in war the term is emptied of meaning
      Davidson, effectively a Brit establishment lackey, may be gifted with a peerage.
      A contemptible insult to our country on the part of the ‘rulers’ and intended as such but a ‘fair’ reward for her labours.
      Lady Davidson of Jockshire.

    467. Almond Chutney says:

      Liz G, if you had read my comment @ 3:37, I had corrected myself.

    468. SilverDarling says:

      @Graeme

      For a long time the SNP has marketed itself as inclusive and a safe place for minorities. It is no surprise then that maybe gay people felt more welcome or could come out without fear of workplace discrimination, hence the ‘over representation’. But, for example, the media is similarly ‘over represented’ and the truth is we don’t know the ‘how many are gay’ because IRL many gay people still feel they cannot come out. The irony of this is that Lesbian women feel their rights are being diminished and they are increasingly underrepresented.

      Derek Mackay has behaved in a way that would defy belief in its recklessness. He represents no group other than predators and I repeat being gay does not mean being predatory. To assume such is bigoted.

      Predatory is predatory, straight, gay or whatever. Predatory people will use their status and their opportunities as soon as safeguarding is relaxed or ‘inclusivity’ allows it.

      Kate Forbes did really well BTW.

    469. Almond Chutney says:

      CameronB Brodie
      6 February, 2020 at 3:44 pm

      Not really a fair assumption, just because I don’t share the same political views as yourself, you automatically judge me to be ‘illiberal’, and probably a far-right activist with neo-nazi tendencies to fascism?

    470. Hamerdoon says:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-prisoner/comment-page-2/#comment-2514752

      Breeks

      Really, really interesting and thought provoking read.

    471. admiral says:

      Almond Chutney says:
      6 February, 2020 at 3:55 pm
      CameronB Brodie
      6 February, 2020 at 3:44 pm
      Not really a fair assumption, just because I don’t share the same political views as yourself, you automatically judge me to be ‘illiberal’, and probably a far-right activist with neo-nazi tendencies to fascism?

      Yeah, well – if the cap fits.

    472. admiral says:

      Abulhaq says:
      6 February, 2020 at 3:49 pm
      @Admiral 15:05

      Davidson, effectively a Brit establishment lackey, may be gifted with a peerage.
      A contemptible insult to our country on the part of the ‘rulers’ and intended as such but a ‘fair’ reward for her labours.
      Lady Davidson of Jockshire.

      Not long before Union Jack gets his jotters and Baroness Colonel Ruth of that Ilk becomes Gauleiter of the Protectorate of Scotland – err, sorry, Secretary of State against Scotland.

    473. Almond Chutney says:

      @Admiral

      I’ve already attempted to defend Muslims and LGBT on this site, maybe just on this thread alone, I find you are being slanderous.

    474. MaxOvergrowth says:

      Ah, the SNP are in hot water again I see..(re. DM) Still at the least the FM followed due policy, can’t really fault her yet they still do.

    475. North chiel says:

      What a competent, clear & concise performance this afternoon by Kate Forbes in the Holyrood chamber , under difficult circumstances having to take over at very short notice ( after the earlier resignation of Derek Mackay & the actual timing of these revelations on the eve of the budget Statement ) .I am certain that our FM would have been hugely impressed with how Kate Forbes so very competently handled the budget statement and answered all questions from members in such a cool ,confident & reassuring manner. If ever our FM required someone to “ step up to the plate” it was today and Kate Forbes after this afternoon surely must become our new Finance Secretary. Hugely impressed !

    476. Mist001 says:

      Being gay in Scottish politics is to me, very similar to freemasonry. Didn’t anybody think it was a bit queer when Ruth Davidson and Kezia Dugdale were leading their respective parties in Scotland? Patrick Harvie leads the Greens. Joanna Cherry is openly gay. Kezia Dugdales partner is or was Jenny Gilruth SNP MSP. I wonder what their pillow talk was like?

      All in the top jobs and it’s beyond coincidence. Like I said, it seems like a prerequisite for getting ahead in Scottish politics if you happen to be gay and I believe firmly that this is where Sturgeons actions and inactions are compromised, she’s in hock to the gay Mafia and is probably not being blackmailed exactly, but she’s aware of potential outcomes if she behaves in a different way from what she’s ‘advised’.

      As an aside, I have no axe to grind against gay people but I have plenty of axes to grind with people who use insidious influence to manipulate others and with public figures who are less than honest.

    477. admiral says:

      Almond Chutney says:
      6 February, 2020 at 4:05 pm
      @Admiral
      I’ve already attempted to defend Muslims and LGBT on this site, maybe just on this thread alone, I find you are being slanderous.

      And I find you are being ignorant. There is no such thing as slander in Scotland. It’s defamation. Now trot off.

    478. Liz g says:

      Almond Chutney @ 3.51
      No you deflected your accusations on to the Wings poster’s because you know better than to tug on that thread.
      And
      You didn’t provide any answer as to…
      Why Scotland should stay in this Union?

    479. twathater says:

      Just to add my opinion , what Mackay alledgedly done was reprehensible and beyond STUPID and hopefully will be ostracised and rejected from public life , what concerns me more is the lack of ANY ability we the public or voters have to influence or guide the outcome of such acts , I know we can do this at the ballot box but if ANY of these predators have just been elected they have the ability to remain collecting their salary and adding to their pension pot for at least 5 years , this in anybodys reasoning is wrong

      We talk about living in a democracy but in effect we have very little or no control over the people we choose to elect or the decisions they make on our behalf .EG the OBFA , THE GRA , THE NOMINATED PERSON ACT , and very many others , there is a GROSS failure to enable the electorate to voice their opinions on policies or direction of travel for these policies

      As an example how many people elected the SNP to introduce the GRA and where was it on their manifesto and if it was on their manifesto how many people would have voted them in to government, the OBFA was thrown out by MSP’S yet AFAIK it had high support from the public , and STILL no alternative from DIM JIM KELLY , we are powerless in guiding or selecting policies which are harmful or damaging to the electorate or to sack politicians who act against our wishes , yet they carry on regardless knowing that THEY have the power to IGNORE OUR WISHES

    480. Robert Louis says:

      The problem with Dereak Mackay and the reported texting to a 16 year old is not that he is gay. The problem is that he, a 40 + year old adult, repeatedly texted a 16 year old, who is still at school.

      It matters not whether the 16 year old is male or female. To say it is, is nothing short of homophobia.

      The actions of Mackay, as rpeorted are simply out of order. He should have been sacked, instead of being allowed to resign.

      What a clown.

      Yet more evidence of the utter nonsense going on in the SNP. But then, that is what happens when you have no leadership, no drive. The party has not progressed since 2014, just running over the same old ground. No new thinking, no new movements on independence, nothing.

      When you have a political party, controlled by a non-leader, this is what happens, it stagnates.

      Our best chance at Scottish independence happened last year. Now we are stuck with a FM, who keeps promising an indyref in 2020, whilst knowing full well she wants it after the next election.

      The SNP will contiue stagnating, while NS dithers and procrastinates, instead of standing up for Scotland. A decent FM would not have allowed Scotland to be dragged out of the EU at all.

      The only person still playing by westminster’s ‘rules’, is Nicola Sturgeon. Stuck in a mindset and approach to indepedence that became irrelevant following the brexit referendum.

    481. The Last Sensible Person on Wings says:

      Oh dear, what a turmoil. The place seems to have turned into a bit of a madhouse with Stu on holiday. Blatant homophobia is a particular disappointment.

      Meanwhile, no comments on Kate Forbes’ masterful presentation of the budget. A rising star for sure. Apparently the first time a woman has delivered a budget in Holyrood or Westminster.

    482. Colin Alexander says:

      The Scottish Parliament is not the Parliament of Scotland.

      It is *Westminster* devolved government. It’s authority comes from England’s Crown, not from the people of Scotland.

      That’s how Nicola Sturgeon dances to WM’s tune.

    483. Dan says:

      @twathater

      If a new pro Indy party does form I’d hope their manifesto would include policy that covers accountability and conduct of its members and officials, and more importantly Recall Mechanisms that the electorate can use should they feel the need.
      IIRC Recall in Westminster can only kick in with certain circumstances.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recall_of_MPs_Act_2015

      EG. Labour MP Fiona Oluyinka Onasanya and her speeding driver debacle.

      I certainly think the electorate would be receptive and generally supportive to having the ability to remove their elected representative should they fuck up. And that’s fuck up in ways the electorates deem, not purely down to what the legal system thinks, as the law can be an ass at times.

      A straightforward Recall Mechanism would set a good example of how we want our future politics and politicians to be implemented.

    484. North chiel says:

      Surprise surprise , Ruth Davidson nominated for the House of Lords. The “retirement home and social security safety net “ for failed Britnat “ Scottish” politicians . I suppose it will be “Baroness Davidson “ now .She can now join up with former Scottish leader “ Baroness Goldie” . Absolutely sickening , rewarded to quote Burns “ bought and sold for English gold”.

    485. Gfaetheblock says:

      Blair Paterson- hates gays and punctuation!

    486. Pete says:

      North Chief
      You are doing your best to deflect from today’s SNP scandal.
      Unsuccessfully, I would suggest.
      I imagine you’ll be working even harder once the AS trial begins.
      Full marks for trying.

    487. twathater says:

      Dan I have repeatedly brought up the subject of a RECALL LAW on here the one for WM is a fudge allowed by mp’s in the wake of the expenses SCANDAL it was watered down and issued as a sop to the electorate , WE AGAIN have to FORCE our government to be answerable to the people , after all THEY WORK FOR US

    488. Famous15 says:

      This site is descending into a black hole of monstrous illiberality. I will not follow it down that sewer.

      Derek Mackay is a disgrace beyond redemption and must retire totally from public life.

      I will not point to other parties and do any whataboutery. Mackay is not foolish; he is corrupt.

      BUT.

      One or more persons acting wrongly will NEVER alter my belief that independence is essential or Scotland.

    489. Republicofscotland says:

      Well the ultra unioist STV news didn’t disappoint on the Derek Mackay story they ran and ran and ran some more with it, a full ten minutes of it, or a third of the programme.

      The unionists will keep coming back to this story for months, whilst unionist vultures, I mean journalists will hunt down Mackay like a pack of wolves. In the disgraceful way in which the Britnat media hounded Michelle Thomson, springs to mind.

      Mackay should do us all a favour and take a holiday. His career in politics is surely over, silly man. My thoughts are with the young boy and his family.

      Meanwhile a Westminster spokesperson is rigioursly denying that Boris Johnson called Scotland’s FM that wee Jimmy Krankie woman, and that she would not keep him out of Scotland referring to the COP26 gathering in Glasgow later this year.

      We know fine well the lying racist bigot Johnson has form in not just demeaning other world leaders and politicians but other cultures, such as his disgraceful letterbox comment.

      You’re not wanted in Scotland Johnson, 52% of Scots want independence not you, so stop denying Scotland democracy.

      PS: Could you please take Ruth Davidson with you after you give her a peerage.



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