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Wings Over Scotland


The next time

Posted on February 23, 2014 by

… someone from the No campaign or a right-wing newspaper tries to tell you that Scotland’s attitudes to the EU aren’t actually very different to those in the rest of the UK, just show them this striking graphic and tell them to shush.

euregions

(And don’t take any “Well then we’d have to join the Euro!” cobblers either.)

If we choose to remain in the UK and the UK has a referendum on EU membership (which it’s highly likely to), there isn’t a whole lot of doubt about the outcome. There’s only one way to make sure Scotland stays in Europe. Businesspeople planning a No vote because they fear “uncertainty” might want to have a wee think about that.

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    1. 20 03 14 09:18

      Independence | George Glen

    42 to “The next time”

    1. Scott says:

      Is there a larger version of that graphic?

    2. Croompenstein says:

      OT just donated to yes in the glen http://www.yesdunfermline.com/donate/

    3. Roger Mexico says:

      Not quite sure of where they got those figures from. Milward Brown aren’t BSP members and there’s no links in the article, though they do do polls in Ireland.

      And some of the regional figures look a bit odd – the latest ITV Wales poll with a good size sample had Wales as +3 not -12 and I would expect the UKIP-friendly East of England to be more anti.

    4. cynicalHighlander says:

      That graphic is quite stark especially as just heard on the news that the place in the UK with the worst air quality is around Buckingham palace about 4 times EU standards, no wonder they want out.

    5. Roger Mexico says:

      BPC not BSP, duh.

    6. Steev says:

      I’ve been lurking on the site for a couple of weeks now but thought I’d post as the EU referendum is one of the arguments I use when debating with anyone on the No side.

      I like that we’re part of Europe, I’ve worked abroad and have friends in various European (and Scandinavian) countries. To think that, should we still be part of the UK if this In/Out referendum comes about, the whole of Scotland voting to stay in wouldn’t matter if the rest of the UK wanted out is scary and one of many reasons I want to separate.

      Currently there seems to be quite a xenophobic streak running through the rest of the UK that I don’t agree with and I like to think most of Scotland are are like me.

    7. Alexandra-M- says:

      I’m sure these figures go hand in hand with a survey that was reported on the other week. Scottish people were more inclined to accept EU immigrants and felt immigration should be encouraged, whereas English people were more for a reduction in EU immigration and were more against it in general overall.

      I look forward to living in a tolerant, independent Scotland within the EU 😉

    8. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Derek Bateman fairly letting rip about the BT reaction to the RIC leaflet:-

      http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/2014/02/23/estates-of-the-nation/

    9. gillie says:

      Perhaps this is a graphic that should be sent to Jose Manuel Barroso and his EU compatriots.

    10. scottish_skier says:

      @RM

      Agreed on the pollster – not familiar with them. However polls are very consistent in Scotland being generally for the EU and the rUK against. The ICM indy poll had 54% in and 29% out.

      Certainly, if Scotland strangely did vote to remain in the UK and there was a UK EU referendum down the line, that could end the UK by another means. If Scotland voted to stay in the EU and England voted out, I for one would not accept having my EU citizenship stripped from me by the citizens of another country.

    11. mr thms says:

      David Cameron was told by François Hollande, that treaty amendment under Article 48 of The European Union could not be done before his EU referendum. Not true. It can if Scotland votes yes. Interesting Cameron’s preferred referendum date is in 2017, as it fits in with Scotland’s independence timetable. Scotland could even hold it’s own referendum on the same day.

    12. Fireproofjim says:

      OT – having just completed delivering about 2000 of the latest YES Newsletter around Edinburgh, I have come to the conclusion that, in traditional Labour voting areas, we should produce an edition which emphasises on the front page the number of prominent Labour stalwarts who are voting YES. Because, as much as it pains me to say it, there are some people who find pictures of Alec and Nicola less attractive than those of Dennis Canavan.
      If we can convince a bit of the solid Labour vote to come over to YES we are home and dry. Let us do everything we can to support Labour for Independence.

    13. cynicalHighlander says:

      @CalumCarr

      Thanks for that. test image

      http://www.thecityuk.com/assets/Uploads/_resampled/SetWidth590-UK-EU-links-infographic3.jpg

      Uk banks hold £5.6 trillion of assets so why did we bail them out?

    14. patronsaintofcats says:

      ddos attack seems worse than ever today

    15. Paula says:

      I am not particularly surprised at these figures. I suspect it may be due to Scotland’s more tolerant attitude towards foreigners and immigrants, as well as a more European outlook

    16. HandandShrimp says:

      I am mildly Euro Sceptic. I don’t care overly whether we are in or out. However, there would be something ironic about the EU blocking a pro EU country whilst trying to keep an anti-EU country on side. Sounds about par for the course for the EU though.

    17. liz says:

      That is astonishing – I didn’t realise there was such a difference.

      Yet the EU seem to be making it difficult for us – or are they?

    18. Tam Jardine says:

      I feel European (2nd) and wish to remain so in the future- with absolutely no precedent, reason or mechanism for stripping me of my eu citizenship on a yes vote the swallowing of the Barroso line with zero journalistic rigour knowing full well that Scotland is byandlarge pro eu… its vindictive.

      A little support for a pro eu country trying to take control of our own affairs (and play a more active role in the eu in the future) would be refreshing but maybe its just too soon and the other member states are playing wait and see. And I know there are those in yes that would happily emulate Norway and go alone- that is not the question being posed in September. No means exit from eu- yes means we’re in until such time as WE decide.

      As for the graphic, it makes me feel proud and old at the same time as I realise for the first time I am now middle aged

    19. GunboatDiplomat says:

      I’m from a Scottish family but was born in England. I’m a believer in left-wing politics and I’ve always wanted to live somewhere socialist and English-speaking that isn’t xenophobic. For that reason I’ll be moving up to Edinburgh and voting yes.

    20. Roger Mexico says:

      scottish_skier

      London and Scotland are consistently the most pro-EU regions, though the ICM poll is on the high side, probably because of wording.

      But I wouldn’t say that rUK was automatically anti-EU. The lead varies wildly between polls, even for the same pollster, and usually when given the promise of any concessions from Europe, no matter how nominal, the vote swings in favour. Even without Scotland I can’t see rUK voting to leave in reality.

      Besides how would the ruling classes, bureaucrats and media cope without having the EU to blame everything on?

    21. scottish_skier says:

      I live in an EU household and so am generally in.

      The most important thing for me is that Scotland decides whether it is in or out.

      Norway’s lovely so if that’s the decision, nae bother.

    22. Richard says:

      Roger Mexico says

      Besides how would the ruling classes, bureaucrats and media cope without having the EU to blame everything on?

      The same way the Scots will when they can’t blame Westminster

    23. Alba4Eva says:

      The one thing I will say about ‘Business People’… is that they are frequently not always as bright as they would lead you to believe… If they were as infallable as their own egos tell them, then things like Banks wouldn’t have gone bust!

      Another reason to share this…

      https://soundcloud.com/resonance-fm/unknown-novara-13th-feb-2014

    24. dramfineday says:

      Fireproofjim

      I tend to concur, lets see more of the other parties in future newsletters. I’ve been adding “Aye Right” to all my deliveries plus “Labour for indie” in select areas. It may help if you can do similar. Lets folk see it’s not all Alex and Nicola – lovely people that they no doubt are!

    25. I am in touch with a foreign TV producer who is wanting to make a programme about the referendum. They are looking for independence supporting people and businesses between Perth and Inverness. Anyone interested, please contact me via the contact form on my website http://my.mutterings.co.uk/contact.

    26. Alba4Eva says:

      Steev… Scottish Independence is nothing more than ‘Inclusion’. At present we are separated from Europe and the rest of the world for that matter. It is time we stood alongside the international community as an equal and contributory presence. Its time.

    27. TJenny says:

      GunboatDiplomat – Welcome onboard. 🙂

    28. Richard says:

      Fireproofjim

      I am involved with a local Yes group that has produced a local leaflet dealing with defence. Necessary because we have Faslane on our doorstep and generic stuff doesn’t hack it. The only issues are a writer and funds

    29. James123 says:

      @Scott
      Is there a larger version of that graphic?

      http://i.imgur.com/AwOrxJ8.jpg

    30. Alexandra-M- says:

      Agreed Paula.

      *pours GunboatDiplomat a whisky*

      Slàinte!

    31. Betty Boop says:

      Calgacus MacAndrews says:
      23 February, 2014 at 9:24 pm
      “Derek Bateman fairly letting rip about the BT reaction to the RIC leaflet:- ”

      Wow – Go Derek Bateman. This is more like it; telling it like it is for so many people and not just blaming generally, but, naming names!

    32. MolliBlum says:

      Prompted by a couple of recent conversations with neighbours from other EU countries who told me that they would not be exercising their democratic right to vote because A) they feel they shouldn’t interfere in what they think is an entirely “Scottish” issue and B) simply don’t have enough information, I scoured around and eventually found this FB page. So I’m passing it on, just in any of you have friends, neighbours, students or colleagues from other EU countries expressing similar misgivings about voting.

      https://www.facebook.com/EuCitizensForAnIndependentScotland

      I was particularly struck by the registration figure… that’s a whopping 40,000 EU citizens who haven’t registered to vote (yet) even though it is surely in their own interests (esp. given the prospect of a 2017 In/Out referendum):

      “Did you know there are over 120,000 non-British EU Citizens in Scotland, of which just over 80,000 have already registered to vote in Scotland’s referendum? If you have not yet registered to vote it is in your interest to do so and if you need help, just pm us and we can help you.”

      The EU membership issue (and the very real risk of being taken out of the EU against the wishes of the majority is a very important one – so please point this out (or pass on the link) to friends / colleagues / neighbours from other EU countries who may not be aware of how much this vote affects them, too.

    33. G H Graham says:

      I can’t argue with the poll since I have no access to the tables nor the specific questions.

      Although the graphic is but one of thousands which yet again shows, that as far as England is concerned, Scotland is just a big mysterious region.

      The impression these graphic give is that there isn’t much variation at all across the country. We are viewed in very simplistic terms which I find insulting.

    34. MochaChoca says:

      Downing Street said the UK was “well placed” to absorb price shocks that would “dramatically affect a small country’s budget”.

      I think they mean the UK has been “well placed” to absorb the revenues, and that does very badly “affect a small country’s budget”

      Not for long.

      Isn’t it interesting to see how much time and energy (excuse the pun) that UK govt spends analysing, forecasting and talking about North Sea output considering they tell us it represents less than 2% of UK revenues.

    35. Captain Caveman says:

      I can well believe this. From the Indy perspective, then, I guess the EU Commission’s comments are a massive stumbling block, as I’ve long stated – this is without doubt the Unionists’ strongest argument for retaining the Union.

      People on the Indy side of the argument can use sophistry/spinning, but there’s no fooling savvy business owners I’m afraid guys.

    36. Appleby says:

      Good post. IT shows the fearmongering about Scottish independence and the “you’ll be thrown out the EU!!” line is doubly nonsense as if the UK referendum on it has its way then we’d be out anyway, even if we wanted to stay.

      But don’t let the truth get in the way of propaganda and lies…

    37. MochaChoca says:

      Capt Caveman,

      Are you comfortable with the idea that in 2017 Scots may vote in numbers to remain within the EU, but we may be removed anyway?

      Conversly (and I know it’s very unlikely), would you be happy with rUK voting to leave the EU, but the balance being tipped and them remaining in, purely due to a stronger pro-EU vote in Scotland?

      Either way, it doesn’t seem very democratic.

    38. morgan mc says:

      The EU costs UK business over £12billion in regulation. Whilst 95% of UK business does not export to the EU.
      That allied to the £40billion UK bail out of the EU, Scotlands shared liability of that is thus around £5.2 billion.

      The EU is 0ver 10 trillion in debt, 26 million unemployed, soup kitchens and food banks. Baroness Ashton on her way to Kiev to recieve a rapturous reception from the facist parties that support a German dominated EU.

      Meanwhile, two days ago Iceland re affirmed her opposition to the EU by withdrawing her accession as:”A threat to our fishing industry”.

      The SNP want us to sign up to THAT?
      “Not now. Not ever.Not on anyones terms”.
      “Scottish Democratic Alliance”

    39. Muscleguy says:

      @Captain Caveman
      The role of the Commission in assessing potential accession countries is limited to certifying that the fulfil all the necessary legal, economic etc criteria for entry. That is all. So the views of the head of the Commission on the political likelihood are pretty much irrelevant. He is also retiring so won’t be in post when it comes to the decision.

      Basing your view on Barroso’s self important prognostications is a very strange straw to grab in the wind.

    40. Craig Fisher says:

      Interesting update re. EU membership:

      http://archive.is/8HkkR



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