Wings Over Scotland

British nationalism thrives on “hatred and division”. And it’s certainly a “cancerous political ideology”.

Britnats like Gallagher and Greene are mongers of hypocrisy.

This is important if dirty and depressing work which you do here Stuart.

Highlighting and exposing the true British values which underpin the British State will be an eye opener for many new to politics in Scotland.

@Davie Oga
First article about the OBFA, one mention of Rangers “And by his Rangers* buddy” (Rangers fans actually split evenly on ban or not ban), one about Celtic “Mr O’Hare’s fellow Celtic supporters” (who split 63% to 37% to keep OBFA).

Second article (OO) “And equally unsurprisingly, Celtic fans were a lot keener on banning Orange walks (43%) than “Rangers” fans (20%), with other supporters in the middle”. Wait for it, wait for it, it’s getting there, and here we go:

Third article all about knocking Rangers who are of course the KKK in disguise.

See a pattern here?

And yet there are many Rangers fans who support Indy.

Indy = Independence. Not club partisan football.

Rather than ban sectarianism perhaps we should ban 22 men chasing a sack of wind for 90 mins + extra for whatever.

Home is sometimes called football although other terms are available.

@yesindyref2 Think you’re seriously barking up the wrong tree if you’re implying the Rev is some sort of sectarian with a prejudice against Rangers. The OBFA articles are relevant and I’m no great follower of Scottish football. They’ve highlighted two things. Firstly that our media and opposition politicians don’t give a stuff about public opinion or looking forward to a modern Scotland. They just want things to go back to the way they were ( probably some time in the eighties or nineties)

Secondly it highlights their desire to work together and secure a win, any win, against the SNP regardless of the implications for the country. Witness how they all take the same uncompromising stance for repeal with no voices raised for amendment or improvement of the current act.

@SandyW
Google “X fans attack” where X is Rangers or Celtic or Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hibs, Hearts, Killie and check quickly through 3 or 4 pages worth of results.

So why single out just one club?

Also try “celtic sectarian songs”, and apparently Green Brigade.

Singling out one side is not part of the solution, it’s part of the problem.

Reminds me.

Sign this if you can and share it widely:

link to change.org

‘re the separate education schools in Scotland. Why is it my daughter and my brothers daughter after a kafflik school education, went on to university. One in ireland and one in England. While our sisters kids who both attended protestant state liebor funded schools in Scotland, are both now unemployed. Aye previous liebor education administration’s in Scotland have a lot to f****g answer for. Sectarianism. Keep the masses ignorant, vote Scottish liebor.waken up Scotland ffs.

‘Sake. It’s like taking away Trump’s ego/wig. It isn’t real… it’s a figment of your imagination and if you need it we need to talk about it, Dude. You are broken.

@Yes indy ref,

A little prickly there. I think the article clearly mentions attitudes to both sides of the Old Firm as was.

On two or three occasions Celtic have actually banned The Green Brigade from Parkhead for inappropriate banners. May not seem a lot but it is something. It is sending out a clear signal that the club is not happy

When has Rangers ever banned The Union Bears from Ibrox for anything? Never. Wrong signal.

Religion can be a commodity sold under different brand names. Football is such. Hearts/ Hibs. Dundee/ Dundee utd.Rangers /Celtic. They have been playing on the fans prejudice for generations.

@Bob Mack: “A little prickly there.”

I don’t have an iron in the fire, I don’t support any of them, I’d go to a Juinor league if I had time, much more interesting, that’s what I used to do sometimes. To my mind it’s all about money, they change strips all the time to make money and that effectively forces parents into spending money they don’t have on new strips, luckily our kids weren’t in that position – or us. It’s big business, not football, and it’s not about local players it’s how many squillions they have to buy in players from anywhere, so they might as well be called the North Pole FC for all the relevance it has to the area they’re in. But as far as either Rangers or Celtic are concerned, or any other Scottish club, I wish them well if playing any team outside Scotland.

But it’s the Scotsman article has some balance to it, not this one.

@Yes indy ref2

Believe me Junior Football is far far worse. I played Junior.

It’s funny to think that one of the favourite songs at Parkhead is “Grace” by the Wolftones. It is a song based in truth about an Irish freedom fighter who was shot by a British firing squad whilst sitting in a chair because he was too ill to stand. He married his sweetheart the night before the firing squad shot him .

The weird thing is Grace his sweetheart was a Protestant girl disowned by her family for daring to love a Catholic. It is a love song but somehow is viewed by my Ibrox going son in law as a Republican song. Go figure. You can twist anything to suit I suppose.

There is money in sectarianism, just as there is for politicians supporting Westminster parties.

If you are a political candidate in the right area, rife with bigotry, you can do well and make a good living with little or no talent. Membership of a certain sect and a season ticket will do fine.

I’ve first hand experience of former old firm players, who managed to blow their lucrative earnings, taking part in
some disgusting songs and chants, I feel just to pick up some easy money.

A certain politician in the Glasgow Labour party is well known for joining in with the Bhoys for bigotry, but in his case he sings with passion and not just for votes.

I have a relative, thankfully distant, and not distant enough who is OO and Rangers Daft, well daft in all things.
His IQ must be right up there with his shoe size.
When he doesn’t have enough money to pay basic household bills, he will run up debt to follow Ranger to far flung corners of Scotland and buy all their new football tops.

Bottom line with this guy, he has been prosecuted through incidents at Ibrox, but he still gets in without any problem. There doesn’t seem to be any real checks made.

His knuckle dragging chip off the old block is so proud of how their Sectarianism and bigotry cannot be stopped by
the SFA, Police, or Westminster controlled government.

My country was spurred into taking major offence when the old tradition of flying the Lion Rampant when the Queen is in residence was to continue with the support of the Queen, but then fought tooth and nail to keep the old tradition of sectarian violence and abuse on our streets??

Hi Bob Mack at 7:35 pm.

You typed,
“Religion can be a commodity sold under different brand names. Football is such. Hearts/ Hibs. Dundee/ Dundee utd.Rangers /Celtic. They have been playing on the fans prejudice for generations.”

I think you’re off-beam mentioning the two Dundee clubs there. When I was regularly going to Dens in the 60s, my cousins supported United. We were all brought up as protestants. I haven’t been aware of a religious element in the support for either team.

One example: Frews is basically a “Dundee” pub. There are pictures of classic Dundee players and teams on the walls. When Dundee are playing at Dens, it is full of Dundee fans before and after the match. When United are at home, the pub is full of United supporters before and after the match.

When the Hogmanay party takes place, there are suporters of both teams there. There is no friction because of football or religion issues.

Petra 8.14pm. I think the SG should be demanding answers to this. We’ve had enough of these barstewards dumping their toxic sh**e on us.take it down to f****g devonport.

Glen Douglas, another reason among many why the UK cannot let Scotland go.

Here’s a slightly longer view of today’s ‘infamous’ Dingwall pitch invasion than Sportscene broadcast.

Sportscene buy a highlights package.

So I’ll presume they didn’t ‘highlight’ the highlight here.

Though, being the BBC ….

link to youtube.com

Funny how they laughed it off.

I would have expected some sort of caustic comment from Michael Stewart.

…always the same responses.
Why are you banging on about it!
Why is my team singled out!
The other side is just as bad!
All teams have problems!
It keeps football alive
It is not such a big problem!
No real harm in it!
It’s the Catholic schools!
It’s our heritage
Etc etc etc

In summary – let us bury our heads in the sand for another decade.

We have a problem. It is a major barrier to Independence and we need to deal with it!

By sectarianism we mean anti-Catholic prejudice, which means anti-Irish prejudice. It’s racism. No decent person can support it.
those Tories, red and blue who hope to make political capital out of this are simply scum.

@Petra
Or of course taking arms / munitions to Libya for some odd reason.

Haud on a wee minute, there’s a chap at the door ..

Capella2.i think everyone outside of Scotland knows that sectarianism in Scotland is anti kafflik/irish.its only the Scottish??. Unionist media who tell us.”one sides as bad as the other “. This is a fact that Scotland’s decent people need to face up to,and chase the sectarian unionist bast”””s out of Scotland.

Fergus McCann made a bigger difference than he sometimes gets credit for. His smartest move was telling the fans that they needed to be BETTER, and that the best response to hearing “the wrong songs” was to belt out something else even louder. That approach worked (along with other stuff, not least the decline of religion overall), but in recent years it seems like the Celtic fans have perceived a lack of action over Rangers, “Rangers” and especially that one song that’s never really gone away at Ibrox, and have decided that they can be just as offensive.

There is still a difference, I think. The Boys of The Old Brigade is an Irish Republican song, no different in tone or content to something like Flower of Scotland or Scots Wha Hae. The Soldier Song is the national anthem of our neighbours. The Fields of Athenry is about stealing food to feed a starving family. All of those songs, though, have been used for comparison with The Billy Boys, a song about murdering Catholics in the east end of Glasgow. I can understand people who don’t like hearing about bloody Irish politics at the football, but I always like to pose this thought experiment:

Imagine there was a large South African community in Edinburgh. Imagine that during the apartheid years, Edinburgh had welcomed a huge number of black South Africans who had, over the years, embedded themselves in the city. There had always been some racism, at times extreme, but that was gradually fading away. The South Africans had established a football club in town as a charitable endeavour. They fielded white players too, but they became the natural home for almost any black player in the ccountry. The fans still sings songs about the struggle at home. It’s more than 20 years since apartheid ended but those songs have sustained their culture for decades more. Some of the songs speak of revenge against the white oppressor, but mostly we know there’s no violent intent. Across town though, there’s a club that openly refused to sign black players until the late 80s, hosted Klan rallies for years and whose fans sign about being up to their knees in nigger blood and that apartheid’s over so why don’t they go home. How would people feel about that?

Indyref2

Surely we should have 9 in a row of articles?. It is a cancer in our society encouraged by unionism. Greene MSP visited Israel with Tompkins and another few Tory MSP’s to support the Israeli state. Of course one mans hisbollah is another’s Stern Gang and freedom fighter.

The links with the right wing states and groups with the Tories are a running sore.

Roll on article 4.

P it may be that the supporters of sectarianism will in fact be a weak spot in thei armour.

O/T .

link to theorkneynews.scot

@ Mike d – it’s not repealed yet. There might be a bit of a backlash welling up in the hinterland. Let’s hope sense prevails.

Old pete 9.10pm. Probably the ‘red hand of ulster which will confuse them even more,because by then Ireland will be United.

Linda Colley in her classic work ‘Britons’ considers the link between maintaining the Protestant ascendency and the emergence of British identity. In England that ascendency was significantly stronger than in Scotland where internal and external forces threatened it until the 19th century.
The need to impress Protestant British Unionist values onto the Scottish population was facilitated by the public education system and the muscular ‘Calvinist’ ethos prevailing in higher education. For that reason Catholics, at no small cost, generally opted out.
Now the problem for Catholics isn’t Protestantism but a militant secularism which would remove all religion from public education. The SNP might consider the political consequences of such an initiative.
Religion, however, isn’t at the root of secularism, ignorance is. The less you know about your belief, the more it becomes a primitive fetish to shake threateningly in the face of others.
Similarly with Unionism, its most ardent Scottish advocates are often found to be the least informed concerning its origins and the history of their own country.
In the 1720s the Aberdeenshire Catholic James Gibb designed the Anglican St Martin’s in the Fields in London.
Would the Kirk of the time have offered such a commission in ill-at-ease Scotland? Discuss!

Worth reading.

link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com

I’m not totally up to speed on this Orange Order stuff but a thought occurred to me.

When you break it all down this isn’t a disagreement about football, right.

It’s a religion thing.

So if this is all about the Pope in Rome (who like the SNP is baaaad) then what other faith issues are they not surrendering about.

These boys appear to be pretty fundamentalist in their beliefs.

This is no hand-wringing, happy-clappy outfit trying to adapt Christian thought to progressive society, blah, blah blah.

So what do “the People” think about, you know, girls loving girls.

Say like Ruth Davidson, for instance.

Ruthie has picked some strange bedfellows (so to speak).

Kenny @ 9:14 pm

You pose an interesting “thought experiment”.

I judge that neither side of this sectarian divide is without blame, but your “thought experiment” is a notable contribution and I would encourage all here to go back and read it carefully, reflect on it and by all means offer further comment/critique.

From time to time, some posts are made here that deserve a second,careful read – your’s is one – and then used as a basis for further, constructive debate.

Many thanks.

With 8.3% of the population, over the last 18 years, Scotland has provided over 8.8% of the revenues of the UK – that’s calculated from the HMRC itself, table 1, page 12, where you can see that in all bar 4 years, Scotland contributed more than its population share. Not something the media want to tell you:

link to gov.uk

Macart says:

Worth reading.

link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com

Yes. Excellent stuff.

“Calling British nationalists “Unionists” means that they can continue to hide their nationalism from themselves and from the rest of us, sheltering their nationalism behind weasel words and lies.”

I agree completely with WGD. We need to stop calling BritNats anything other that BritNats.

By allowing them to frame the contest as nationalists (us) versus unionists (them) we allow them to pretend they are something they aren’t.

Unionists are all, without exception, blood and soil British Nationalists.

For IndyRef2 we must not allow them to set the framing of debates or the agenda. We don’t want to be continually back footed responding to their world view.

Ottomanboi

Militant anything has a tendency to be a pain in the arse, be that faith or secularism.

The SNP have repeatedly asserted that the people of Scotland are sovereign, asserting the Claim of Right 1689 as the documentary legal proof. In the Scotland’s Future White Paper, it also mentions the ‘sovereign people’.

Even the Unionists boast: The people voted No to independence in a referendum, so there’s “no doubt”, as the people decided.

Well, the people of Scotland also voted to Remain in the EU, a vote which the SNP insisted must be respected. The SNP and Scot Govt started well, insisting Scotland cannot be dragged out the EU against her will; it was unacceptable.

Yet, now Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP have become fixated on “Soft Brexit” for the UK. If dragging Scotland out the EU was unacceptable then, it’s unacceptable now.

( This is not an argument supporting the merits of the EU or the perils of Brexit, but supporting that the will of the people must be respected.)

So, it’s unacceptable for the uk AND Scot GovtS (and SNP) to then ignore that Remain vote and decide they’ll offer a Single Market compromise to the UK Govt. It was the “sovereign people” that made a decision by a democratic vote to Remain, so it’s a decision the SNP and Scot Govt, had no right to deviate from.

The UK Govt could laugh and ignore this, but the Scot Govt could have then challenged this in court, based on the ancient sovereign people argument and then supported with the modern-era “democratic self-determination” gold standard of modern democracy.

Instead, the Scot Govt chose to challenge Brexit on the Sewel Convention.

I don’t know about others, but I would love to hear what courts would say about the Claim of Right and the sovereignty of the people of Scotland coupled with that sovereignty being exercised democratically ( one person, one vote in a referendum) v the sovereignty of Westminster ( Commons MPs and Lords).

Of course, only 59 of the 650 MPs are elected in Scotland. No Lords are elected by any of the electorate.

Thus, if Scotland’s people are sovereign, they are unable to exercise that sovereignty through Westminster – as Scotland can only elect 59 representatives of their sovereignty out of around 1450 Westminster politicians.

Holyrood is subservient to Westminster. It’s WM’s Edinburgh branch.

That goes against all modern principles of democracy.

Of course, we know the old argument that goes: well, Scotland elects MPs for constituencies, as does other parts of the UK, so we are all equal.

But, in English tradition, Parliament itself is sovereign. That belief is repeated by the UK Govt.

But, the Claim of Right says the people themselves are sovereign. It said Kings cannot rule without the consent of the people. It can be argued, the same rule would also apply to governments, MPs and Lords; that none of them can rule over the people of Scotland without the people’s consent.

When the Claim of Right was passed by the Scottish Parliament in 1689 there was no such thing as a referendum of the people. Indeed, ordinary people in Scotland had no vote that would meet the today’s standards of universal suffrage. Even in the modern era in the UK, the use of referendums have been extremely rare.

If the courts ruled the Claim of Right was not worth the paper it was written on, then it may mean HM Queen has no legal mandate to be Head of State of the United Kingdom.

It could raise questions about the whole constitutional set-up of the UK.

As I said, referendums are rarely used. Democratic mandate is the usual democratic convention.
Again and again I’m told: We must have an indyref to achieve independence. Anything else would be undemocratic; it would be UDI.

So, what’s the basis for arguing that an indyref MUST be held? I’m told: because the people voted for it. Aye, that was in the 2016 SNP Manifesto. People voted for an SNP manifesto that contained MANY policies – another indyref was just one of many. And the SNP did not get a majority in seats OR popular vote (46.3% of the constituency vote share)

A democratic mandate sought and given for a one policy only manifesto: “negotiating Scotland’s independence” would have a stronger democratic mandate than a vote for an indyref which was just one policy amongst many in the SNP MINORITY government party manifesto.

But, if it’s the case that referendums are the new gold standard of democracy; THE VOTE that settles the issues of greatest importance: Why are so many independists, especially the SNP, now willing to ignore the EU-Ref result in Scotland?

“It was a UK vote”. Well, I’m often told the Scot Govt does not need permission from Westminster to hold referendums. Why didn’t they / why don’t they ask: Should Scotland Remain in the EU?

If the UK Govt says Scotland can’t; if they EU says Scotland can’t: let a court establish what Scotland can or can’t do – based on the will of the people.

At worst, a court might say, Scotland’s people aren’t sovereign. Democratic votes by the ordinary people counts for nothing, only Westminster’s votes matters.

To me, that would be further proof of what an un-democratic, antiquated, rotten system we have in the UK. A system where democracy and the will of the people are only conventions that can be ignored by Westminster.

Which brings me to the sort of fundamental questions posed by the writer of the article: Why independence? For what?

A more democratic country, where the people really are sovereign and the people are able to exercise that sovereignty as much as possible.

A nation state where the government MUST respect and comply with the clear and democratically expressed will of the sovereign people.

A nation state where, for example, if the people voted to Remain in the EU, the government and the parliamentarians would not accept anything less.

For those who can’t look at the charts or put them to a time interval of 1 day as above, here’s the gen:

Brent Crude
Nov 1st $58
Jan 28th $70

GB Pound in US Dollar
Nov 1st 1.31
Jan 28th 1.42

Of course it might not be the oil price, it could be Theresa May’s superb handling of the Brexit process.

link to livecharts.co.uk
link to livecharts.co.uk

It also works over a time period of a week, pretty close relationship all the time since late 2016. Jings, even more so for a period of 1 month back to late 2012.

Has the media commented on this?

Davie Oga says:
28 January, 2018 at 11:11 pm
Is Brent Crude really over $70?

Flipper Darling did keep saying not Scots oil and gas was much too volatile price wise for his silly little Scotland region 2014, much better leave it all to our chums in the south, like

link to energyvoice.com

Sectarianism in Scotland

Is Scotland a sectarian society?

Scotland is divided not by religion as much as by arguments about the enduring importance of religious divisions. The ‘curse’ of Sectarianism is debated in the Parliament, the General Assembly and in the media. What we have not had until now is a serious assessment of the evidence.

This book tests the rhetoric with historical and social scientific data, describing and explaining the changing pattern of relations between Catholics and Protestants over the 20th century. It concludes that Catholic integration in Scotland has been far more successful than most commentators would have us believe. While there were once deep social, political, economic and cultural divisions, these have now all but disappeared. In Scotland’s increasingly secular society, religious identity has steeply declined in social significance.

The book is informed by both a considerable body of evidence from new historical research and major social surveys, and by the authors’ understanding of what the mixing of religion and politics looks like elsewhere – in America, Australia and New Zealand, as well as in Ulster. Presenting a reasoned argument and up-to-date information, the book aims to contribute to a better-informed view of sectarianism in Scotland.

link to edinburghuniversitypress.com

Torygraph likes the new energy minister? about to drain the Shetland oil basin dry because she’s a very hard Brexiter from Devises

link to archive.is

The Telegraph has obtained a WhatsApp mobile phone message sent by Claire Perry, the energy minister who attends Cabinet, in which she berates those accusing MPs of being “("Tractor" - Ed)s” using pejorative language.”

Tories are really going to need every last drop of not Scots oil to pay their Brexit bills for starters.

@yesindyref2 says:
28 January, 2018 at 5:53 pm
===============================

I am a supporter of a wee “diddy team”. I went to see my team play Rangers (twice) recently well a few months ago. In our own ground apart from the usual stuff they came out with a song that was new to me.

“We hate Catholics, We hate Catholics, We hate Catholics, We hate Catholics, We hate Catholics, We hate Catholics, etc.”

Of course I couldn’t tell if all of them were singing it but most of them were. I don’t care if some of them support Indy, that’s still unacceptable. And this kind of bile has been going on for generations. We hear about “decent Rangers fans” but they never seem decent enough to form some kind of campaign to get that stuff stopped.

Testing. No comments since 12.07.

yesindyref2,

“But it’s the Scotsman article has some balance to it, not this one.”

yesindyref2 (to the Rev. Stuart Campbell) (21st January “Absolute Fanny Of The Week”):

“Don’t slip your standards to those of the unionist media.”

yesindyref2 (3rd March 2017 – “Pushing the accelerator”):

“To pick up what Rev says, all I gave was £5, and posted as much on the first thread.

Am I ashamed it’s so little? Why should I be? It’s all I can afford at the moment.”

How much do you spend on The National every year?

How do you compare the standards there with the standards of articles on this site?

How many comments do you post on The National every week?

O/T Ronnie Anderson thanks for that Orkney link by Alec Ross it is a GREAT read , please rev Stu could I ask that you put up the post by Alec Ross as it summarises what is going on and what could be happening very very soon .

As Ross breaks it down it exemplifies what is happening surreptitiously and how the SG will have to act accordingly to protect Scotland’s people , government and interests

It is a frightening but probably accurate read

Oh for that Block Button, it was grand for a wee while

Wish Donald Trump was the Prime Minister

Good range of topics on the forum, but not to kean on the ganging up on some people that post things others don’t agree with, apart from that everything ok

People can vote against Brexit. Just keep voting SNP/SNP. Vote for EU membership. Vote for Independence. Do not vote for unionists or their cronies. Vote the unionists out. It’s not just up to the SNP. It’s up to the voters. Just get out and vote and take someone along. It can be won. The unionists politicians will be gone. Along with their cronies. Why do people find it so difficult. In Scotland there is an alternative. Self government. Instead of the farce of Westminster. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Lie after lie after lie. The Westminster frauds. Defrauding Scotland of £Billions. Keeping it secret under the Official Secrets Act. Iraq, Lockerbie and Dunblane, kept secret for 100 years.

Why the Unionist frenzy of late in the papers and on Tv?

They have seen the trends in polls and focus groups and they are panicking like rodents on a sinking ship.

Scotland can save itself and the future of its children by choosing independence.

The caring civic nationalism and internationalism of the SNP X 2.

Peers say Brexit legislation is fundamentally flawed and risks undermining legal certainty
link to archive.is

A bloody battle looms over custom’s union
link to archive.is

link to bloomberg.com

link to ibtimes.co.uk

Dr Jim @ 09:04

I listened to this ‘Centre for Cities’ report that appear to be saying Dundee is at risk of losing 25% of its jobs as they are low skilled and can be done by robots in the future. It was all might, could be, possibly without any real substance or reasoning.

link to centralfm.co.uk

link to scottovoce.wordpress.com

link to theorkneynews.scot

British government warned of legal action over DUP deal by campaigners
link to archive.is

Joemcg says:
at 11:43 pm

“British Nationalists” term. They absolutely loathe getting called that as it destroys their Nationalist quotes and “Nazi” pish they love peddling. Saw the reaction on social media and the real world whilst campaigning.

The more I think about this the clearer it becomes to me too.

What part do these so called Unionists and Unionist parties play in the politics of Scotland? They appear to have only one mission – to undermine everything identifiable as Scottish.

They are not Unionists, there are no Unionist parties. They don’t want a union, they want absorption into a single unified entity with little deviation from an Anglo-centric model.

They call it ‘British’ and their blind loyalty to this concept makes it British Nationalism. It is the term which best describes their ethos, motivation, and objectives.

From now on I intend to use BritNat rather than Unionist.

Morning Macart 🙂

Not completely surprised that Anas encountered some old fashioned racism in his leadership bid but I think the fact that he was a moderate and the other chap a flavour of the month momentum candidate was what sealed it.

On nationalists, I find that Brexiteer heads explode if you call them Seps 🙂 Not that I would do that…much.

They don’t like being called “Yoons”, and it gives a veneer of respectability to their union but I agree the term must be “BRITNAT”.

It can be nuanced as occasion requires. It can be spat out as a term or derision and antipathy or quietly and sadly followed by “The Cringe is strong in this one”!

I think English nationalism should be called out when it is inappropriate etc. It is nothing to be ashamed of when it has respect at it’s core.

Brexiteers are European separatists.

Scottish Unionists are fantasists, imagining that our neighbour rates our best interests above their own.

Especially when they (England) have just voted to leave a union actually created to share values and commerce.

Wake up Scotland!

Up here, somehow in the UK we’re further north than The North, and now treated as a subject instead of a partner.

This isn’t ‘on the cards’ it’s actually happening now.

We need to trust in ourselves, as saviours of our own social and economic fortunes. With equality of opportunity at the centre of a modern nation.

@yesindyref2
Regarding forex trading and the £. The sad fact is that the £ has been OVER-VALUED for decades to the benefit of the net importers in the south and to the detriment of the net-exporters in the north.
All courtesy of London.

Since Scotland has a strong export potential to nice independent, any devaluation of the new currency would be fairly short lived

I scanned through the Daily stranger story on the news stand and the alledged comments from the Labour councillor to Sarwar.
I would suggest it says more about Labour than it actually does about Scotland.

As UKOK hackdown drags Scots into their sewer, smears us all with their special brand of yoonery,

link to uk.reuters.com

I’m particularly fond of the “Scotland does more trade with England than the EU” which by implication means Ha Ha we wont trade with you anymore and we’ll make you poor

And the answer to that is *pish* England will trade with anybody if it’s to its advantage, plus what kind of people would threaten their neighbours with talk like that it’s no wonder Scotland wants independence away from those people then

I’m seriously starting to believe we dont even need Obi Wan Kenobi’s help on this, we can save ourselves without the use of Ray guns

I’ve still got one if I need it though, a *Dan Dare* Space gun

Arabs for Independence says:

I listened to this ‘Centre for Cities’ report that appear to be saying Dundee is at risk of losing 25% of its jobs as they are low skilled and can be done by robots in the future. It was all might, could be, possibly without any real substance or reasoning.

Sigh – another BBC attempt to distract from the coming BREXIT storm. Job losses? Nothing to do with BREXIT,it’s the robots.

As the BREXIT dust settles; 80,000 jobs lost, 18 billion quid up in smoke?….

“OH LOOK — A ROBOT!”

Post BREXIT 80,000 job losses?

18 Billion quid down the drain?

“Oh look – a ROBOT!”. 🙂

BritNats who have adopted an English identity.
Nothing wrong in having an identity, but British = English.
Call them what they are and tell them to embrace their English identity with pride.
Their fellow British = English in England are very proud of their Englishness and quite right as well!
So when chatting to a BritNat inhabitant of Scotland encourage them to celebrate their Englishness – it’s what they are.

Anas Sarwar says Scotland wont vote for a brown Muslim when clearly he means Labour wouldn’t vote for a brown Muslim
Or he could have said Labour Muslims voted for a brown Muslim *Anas Sarwar* but white people Labour didn’t vote for a brown Muslim

Try as I might to work out who Anas is slandering as racist here, it seems that Anas is trying to say Muslims are not racist because they voted for him because he’s a brown Muslim but that’s OK it’s the white folks who have the race problem

Again it makes his claim that *Scotland* is racist because a *Labour* councillor told him so even more ridiculous

So the only thing all that nonsense proves is

It’s the Labour party that’s racist Anas because the rest of us didnae get a vote in yer wee election ya choob

This must mean the Humza Yousaf’s got nae chance of ever succeeding in anything Ooops! he’s the transport minister, damn! some white folks must’ve gone over to the dark side eh

Anas Sarwar Choob of the week along with the Daily Record for attempting to stir up race as an issue so’s we can be just the same as England

Choob Choob Choob, and spiteful with it

@ScottieDog
Yes, the GBP has been overvalued. I guess part of the reason is before Brexit it was considered a safe haven.

It’s interesting though. During Indy Ref 1 one of the cautions about our own currency was that it could rise because of the oil, a petro-currency. I guess too it could become a realtively safe haven. For me though that means that the central bank would have to intervene to keep the exchange rate down by buying foreign currency with the Scottish Pound. Which means it would build up larger and larger foreign reserves. Which would of course get it ready should Scotland want to join ERM2 in the future at some time – similar to Denmark which the unionists use to say we need £50 billion to even start a currency.

But perhaps it also means the initial reserves at the Central Bank wouldn’t need to be too high – just £10 billion.

Another thing, can’t help thinking that the dropping oil price before down to $40 and lower has done Indy Ref 2 a favour. It means the economic case would need to be made on onshore revenues, which are rising year to year. And then any oil revenues could and should be put completely in an oil fund, but an oil fund which could invest in Scotland, lending money for infrastructure and major projects. We could build another 6 bridges!

Don’t answer Bob.
Because the Edinburgh Agreement stood/was agreed once, it’s sentiment is legally powerful. More than just a convention.

When asked by the BBC about the prospect of Scotland becoming Independent because of his investment Bill Gates replied “Why should that make a difference”

Bill Gates isnae frightened

louis.b.argyll

Edinburgh Agreement?

Was the Edinburgh Agreement made a statute, a law by Westminster Parliament?

Therefore, it was a worthless ministerial agreement between WM and it’s branch office at Holyrood.

WM is sovereign in the UK constitution. Unless MPs made this a law, unless it was incorporated into domestic law by an act of parliament, it’s not worth the paper it was written on.

The UK Govt / Scot Govt version of The Vow. Looked good at the time I admit, like a summit meeting between government leaders. Great theatre. But kidology.

Ian Brotherhood says:

Appeal for Scottish Office whistleblowers

One thing is certain, in these days of austerity and spending cutbacks, they are not beefing up the Scotland Office without a purpose in mind!

I’ve had a Google around and find it hard to get figures for expenditure and staffing numbers. Publicising the scale of expansion would be a good place to start.

I’m starting a “clipping” text file ready for Indy Ref 2, and for any that don’t read overnight postings, I’ll repeat this as I think it’s important.

Check out these two charts, put them on two different tabs, and on the chart itself click the down arrow (Time interval) and select 1 day for each one. Look at the amazing similarity in shape.

link to livecharts.co.uk

link to livecharts.co.uk

For those who can’t look at the charts or put them to a time interval of 1 day as above, here’s the gen:

Brent Crude
Nov 1st $58
Jan 28th $70

GB Pound in US Dollar
Nov 1st 1.31
Jan 28th 1.42

It also works over a time interval of a week, pretty close relationship all the time since late 2016 and even more so for a interval of 1 month back to late 2012.

The Unionists would say “Well, if it does that to the GBP what on earth would it do to the Scottish Pound?”.

No.

The UK is in debt to the tune of £1.8 trillion, partly backed by the assets of the UK. Oil of say 20 billion barrels at $40 was worth = $800 billion. But at $70 = $1.4 trillion. Oil is an asset to counter the debt.

BUT Scotland’s share of the UK debt even per capita would be £150 billion, so the difference of oil value between $800 billion and $1.4 trillion wouldn’t matter a squillionth to Independent Scotland.

@Liz Rannoch
Good to see people writing to local papers, I used to a lot years ago (not about Indy), and they just about all got published (local issues). If that one doesn’t get published, go back to the cool calm and collected style!

The UK has the Bank of England at “arm’s length”, persoanlly I’d want to see the Scottish Central Bank closer to the Scottish Government. Don’t know what the rules are of the Norwegian Oil Fund, but again personally I’d want to see it at least able to lend money to the SG – at a reasonable interest rate of course.

And I’d want to see all oil revenues go into the oil fund automatically, though the accounting would be delayed of course for company year-end accounting. Probably some sort of cash accounting basis (accruals?).

When will Scots wake up to the fact the British nationalism is actually an expansionist form of English nationalism. If you examine British culture, you will find it consists mostly of English cultural references, with very little input from the Celtic nations. Then there is the British constitution, which imposes English legal culture on the whole of Britain. The utilitarian core to HMG governance, is a product of Anglican culture.

James the first/sixth sought to unite the nations under one crown but the English parliament had bigger ambitions. Britain is definitely a strategy to create a greater England. It is not possible to create a mechanism for sharing powers between Scotland and England, without wholesale constitutional reform. The English establishment simply won’t go there. Scotland is there possession, or so they think.

Anthropology, Brexit and Xenophobia in Europe

Moreover, we should acknowledge that the EU referendum has been orchestrated by political elites from the start. Far from being a natural result of widespread economic inequality, this political process was instigated by the Prime Minister David Cameron to ensure the continuous support of Conservative party members. His equally privileged rival Boris Johnson pushed the economic case for saving EU membership fees and fuelled anti-bureaucratic sentiments against Brussels, while former commodities trader, lobbyist and right-wing figurehead Nigel Farage successfully equated Britain’s EU membership with a lack of control over immigration. Their attempts at heightening and using “integralist” sentiments of romantic collective belonging, cultural difference and alienation from modern society[4] failed in Scotland and large parts of Northern Ireland.

Now that the votes have been cast, teleological accounts as to why the referendum turned out as it did abound, and at this point it seems too early to provide an authoritative summary of what has happened. As usual, political commentators on the right and on the left highlight predominantly economic reasons for the vote, pointing to the fact that people in the most deprived parts of England and Wales were the ones who wanted Britain out. After decades of seeing their public services reduced to shambles and their job opportunities nullified, it is likely that they wanted to show the politicians in both Brussels and Westminster that they had nothing left to lose. A clear case it seems, of popular disregard for bureaucratic elites, and maybe even a revolution by the people, in an act of popular democracy.

In England and Wales, however, the absence of a strong opposition allowed their triumvirate of political incompetence, an empty will to power and anti-intellectualist xenophobia to win the popular vote. It turned what could have been a measured re-assessment of political allegiances into yet another exercise in escalating tensions along national and religious lines within Europe[5]. So while the referendum has surely been shaped by economic inequality and deprivation, it has also been an illustration of right-wing elites capturing the public discourse so as to to steer public grievances toward ethnic and racial “others” – and away from their own austerity policies.

link to politicalandlegalanthro.org

louis.b.argyll

said: ” Westminster only looks after it’s own Establishment, who in turn promote their own political and middle class needs above all”.

On Scottish Constitutional Futures Forum:

Christine Bell: The Legal Status of the ‘Edinburgh Agreement’
Posted on November 05 2012:

link to scottishconstitutionalfutures.org

In the paragraph Dogs That Do Not Bark, it says:

“HOWEVER, THE EXCLUSION OF ANY FIRM COMMITMENT TO IMPLEMENT THE RESULT should perhaps still be noted, particularly given that the only other legal provision for a secession referendum, in the case of Northern Ireland, provided for in the Northern Ireland Act 1998, does make clear legal provision for implementing the result in Westminster legislation. Even if implementation of a ‘yes’ vote is assured, does this mean that the UK government has to agree to independence in whatever shape the Scottish Government wants? In fact, the wording of paragraph 30 may indicate not.”

Then we had all the Project Fear stuff, such as vote NO to keep Scotland in the EU, The Vow: Devo to the Max, almost Federal UK, Ruth Davidson totting up postal votes, Then the Smith Commission. And EVEL

Now, Nicola Sturgeon’s letter asking for indyref talks lies unanswered almost a year later. While the great Devolution power grab and Scotland being dragged out the EU against the democratic will of the Sovereign people of Scotland is happening right now.

And people on here still see an indyref in cooperation with Westminster as the only way to achieve independence.

Oh dear.

No wonder the SNP are planning for Scotland being in the UK for a long time to come.

o/t

Question

What’s Fluffy and the Scotland Office up to at Leith Docks , what exactly is this project for ? , Who is financing it ? ,

Rumour has it the DUP don’t want a functioning assembly in Northern Ireland , that’s why no agreement will be reached , and they actually favour direct rule from London ,

Would this this be the same Template possibly actively pursued by Fluffy , A Parallel Scottish Government operating from this site at Leith , trust Fluffy and the Tory party aye ok .

Holyrood is being set up for closure , bit by bit the ground work will be promoted by the BBC it’s the next mission , confusion will be rife ,aided by the Labour Party and the unions on one side , the Tory party on the other side will push the cost of this talking shop outweighs the benefit , they never wanted a parliament now is their Opportunity to strike .

English culture is suffering a bad dose of post-colonial malaise. In responce, England’s Establishment seek to turn the clock back on social progress, using British Labour to keep the plebs pacified.

Brexit Britain: Why we are all postindustrial now

ABSTRACT

In June 2016, UK voters decided in a referendum to leave the European Union. This outcome, known as Brexit, is in part the result of the Labour Party’s having abandoned its traditional supporters in the postindustrial urban heartlands of Britain. Meanwhile, the Far Right has revealed its potential to radically disrupt liberal-democratic norms. Cleverly disguised, the racism of the populist right-wing UK Independence Party challenges the taken-for-granted ideals of what counts, at the beginning of the 21st century, as a progressive society. The British political spectrum has shifted to the right, as class politics have been reconfigured into a new form of cultural nationalism. Disorientation is now the postindustrial condition common to UK society.
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com

I’m pleased to read that people are now writing letters to their local papers, it is important because people do read their local papers and the letters which are published.

I know this from my own experience down the years, I write a letter about every two weeks to my local newspapers not just on local issues but also on national ones as well, and I very rarely don’t get them published.

If you don’t VOTE for Anas and SLabour, you’re a racist, is probably as deep scraping the bottom of the UKOK barrel it gets, right?

Sorry:D

Aye, Anas playing the victim /racist card is desperate stuff.

Rather pathetic.

For our resident WoS btl smear First Minister Sturgeon campaigner Colin A, popped up on Facebook this morning, cheezy but nice.

link to youtube.com

@Anas Sarwar
You may be correct about your colleges being racist but do you not appreciate your party would consign Scotland to follow England’s predominantly racist decision to leave the EU?

Xenophobia Britannica? Anti-immigrant attitudes in the UK are among the strongest in Europe

Tim Vlandas had hoped the referendum would have been the end of the obsession with immigration. Brexit would allow the UK to ‘take back control’ of its immigration policy, thereby nullifying the need for politicians to talk about it on an almost daily basis. He argues, however, that in fact the reverse is happening. Having decided to leave the EU, the vote is increasingly interpreted as a call to end immigration almost entirely and, furthermore, it is discussed even more often and more negatively than before the referendum.

Instead of just imposing immigration controls if the government wishes to do so, we now hear a flurry of xenophobic policy proposals which are ironically unlikely to have any noticeable effect on immigration flows. There were suggestions that companies would be ‘named and shamed’ for hiring foreigners. Other ideas included preventing the government from seeking advice from non-UK citizens about Brexit-related matters, presumably for ‘security’ reasons. Immigrants should not, we are told, “take jobs British people could do”.

These proposals are economically illiterate as they implicitly accept the lump of labour fallacy that there is a fixed quantity of jobs in the economy. They are also clearly nationalist insofar as they posit work should be shared first and foremost among ‘deserving’ natives, that we must identify and count foreigners, and that both companies and the government should not rely on foreigners to advise or work for them, at least in some instances. The question remains, however, whether these policy proposals and this obsession with immigration represent the preferences of the wider population? Or put differently, is it the case that the UK is noticeably more sceptical of immigration than other European countries?

To investigate this question, I turned to the survey data available from the European Social Survey; without a doubt one of the best cross-national academic surveys available. The 7th wave of the ESS was carried out in 2014 and covers 20 countries of western and eastern Europe (one is not an EU member: Switzerland). I analysed the responses to the available questions on immigration. For each question, I then ranked countries according to their responses as a rough indicator of where the UK sits in Europe. Obviously, a more complex analysis could be – and should be – carried out, but the following discussion gives us a first glance at the magnitude of the anti-immigration sentiment in the UK.

link to blogs.lse.ac.uk

Yadda yadda yadda boring

@Yes indy ref,

You can just imagine the conversation

Nicola—-Give us a referendum”

May——OK.

Nicola—Should we draw up a contract or something”

May—– No need surely for that

Nicola — OK then.

I despair . Wish Nicola was as smart as Colin Ho Ho Ho.