The greater good
Posted on
April 18, 2020 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
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Political economy is shaped through social morality. Simples. Brexitania displays an impoverishment of political morality, resulting in dodgy constitutional practice and Scotland’s lack of constitutional justice. This is not good and has adverse ramifications for the potential for good government in general.
Ethical analysis in public health
https://wcfia.harvard.edu/files/wcfia/files/694_ethics.pdf
jfngw 1.34pm
Totally agree with your post, Independence should never be off the table, even in the middle of this terrible Virus.
Sturgeon should be reminding the Scottish public of the options that will be available to an independent Scotland during and after this Virus crisis.
When Sturgeon delivers those daily round ups, there is no fire in her belly. She looks like a woman who is just going through the motions.
Everything she says nowadays is scripted, written by someone who also has no interest in Scottish Independence.
Any dummy could give those daily updates and probably be more inspiring than Sturgeon’s efforts.
Pete says:
20 April, 2020 at 12:42 pm
I’ve been standing on my own two feet since I was a year old ya clown!
My Mother & Father helped me to do it.Not some fecking TORY
Scottish government is now calling for a two year extension of the Brexit transition period….
Well, I’m betting Boris Johnson will say no, or just ignore the call.
So what are the chances of the Scottish Government ratcheting up the pressure by issuing an ultimatum that if the Transition period is NOT extended, then either the Union Treaty will be deemed to be breached and the UK will be at an end? Play constitutional hard ball.
Aye, with Nicola Sturgeon in charge, what are the chances of that…..
@ bittie45.
That is exactly what the story should be about. A Ltd company owned wholly by the UK gov stockpiles 28 million pieces of essential PPE for the exclusive use of NHS England. It undoubtedly contributed to shortages, fortunately the SG have grip on this as evidenced by the arrival of yesterday’s shipment from China.
Apologies Rev for the copy and paste. But under noted is a copy of a piece today from Source Direct – The Common Weal.
What is interesting about this is that it is a critique of how the First Minister made the decision to lock step with Boris Johnson’s policy failure to prepare and protect, preferring instead to spread to save the economy.
As you’ll see the First Minister appears now to be trying to distance herself from a policy that has killed tens of thousands and has brought the UK to its economic knees. Nicola Sturgeon and her Government May have failed us on Brexit, have failed us on independence, but it is her blind acceptances of Boris Johnson’s failed policy approach that she will perish. And perish she will as people become ever more bitter about the way she played her part in spreading the virus and not preparing.
But our death toll and economic destruction will not I suspect be in vain. This crisis turned into a disaster will I suspect reinvigorate the independence movement and remove the comfortable devolutionists who have so callously and negligently sold us short.
The article below starts to set that out.:-
SOURCE DIRECT – COMMON WEAL
Has Sturgeon’s pivot come too late?
First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has pivoted. She would not admit to that, but the evidence is clear, and it’s important that it is documented, because it may well mark a before and after moment in the Scottish Government’s response to this crisis.
First, the ‘before’. On 2 March, following an emergency Cobra meeting, the First Minister announced the “sign-off of a four nations action plan”. On 8 March, Sturgeon said that there was “no substantive difference” between the UK Government and Scottish Government’s approach to tackling The Coronavirus: “The whole UK is still in the ‘contain’ phase, but with an increasing focus on a phased shift to the ‘delay’ phase which is when we consider measures to slow down spread of the virus and reduce numbers of people infected at any one time.”
On 15 March, Sturgeon repeated that she was seeking to take decisions on a “consistent UK four nations basis”. The National Clinical Director Jason Leitch was explicit one day later that “community testing and contact-tracing was halted for the containment phase” in accord with the UK Government.
Last Monday, 13 April, there was sign of some movement. The First Minister said if the “evidence” suggested she should do something differently from the rest of UK or at a different time, she would “not hesitate to do so”. The implication was still that she believed the evidence pointed to the UK Government making the correct decisions at the right time so far, thus there had been no need to do something differently, yet.
Then Sturgeon’s language changed. On Tuesday she started to talk for the first time of “suppressing” the virus. The word “delay” was gone. Two days later, she explicitly laid out the case in a speech at St Andrew’s House for “testing and surveillance, contact tracing and isolation of people with symptoms”. On Friday, she went even further, opening a route to breaking rank with the UK Government.
Whereas five weeks previously she spoke of “no substantive difference”, now Sturgeon was outlining a comprehensive list of ways the Scottish Government had done things “slightly” differently so far.
“We banned mass gatherings slightly earlier, we announced the closer of schools slightly earlier, the lockdown came at the same time for the UK but Scotland was slightly earlier in the infection curve at that point, and we’ve taken a slightly tougher line on business closure, construction being an example,” she said.
The language of a “consistent UK four nations basis” has been watered down to “carefully and collaboratively and closely to align our thinking and decision with the Welsh, UK and Northern Irish governments”.
But each government was “at different stages of the infection curve”, she said, and therefore “where the evidence, with judgment applied to it, drives us in [a] slightly different direction” it would be “logical and sensible” to take a different approach.
On Saturday evening, The Sunday Times bombshell story broke. To re-cap: Prime Minister Boris Johnson had missed five Cobra meetings across the whole month of February. The UK was warned on 24 January by LSE professor Neil Ferguson that there would likely need to be a lockdown to cut transmission. Britain was not ready for the pandemic because years of austerity had undermined it’s world-leading pandemic response system to the extent that PPE stock was insufficient and out-of-date. Then government didn’t react in February to enact its response plan, while Singapore – a country that based its pandemic response on copying the UK – did, and successfully suppressed the virus early on. The UK got off to a quick start in contact tracing and testing Covid-19 in early February but gave up that advantage because they were planning for a flu pandemic based on “herd immunity”, and therefore believed it did not require mass testing. Even after a further report in late February stating nearly 400,000 would die if no strict social distancing was imposed, it was not until nearly one month after – 23 March – that Britain went into lockdown. It was more than a week after that, 1 April, that Health Secretary Matt Hancock approached the organisation which represents the majority of British testing suppliers about mass testing.
The First Minister has not responded to this story yet, but on the same evening she did challenge a front-cover story in the same paper about schools re-opening in three weeks’ time: “Decisions need to be solidly based and not premature. We don’t yet know what will be possible and when. The Scottish Government will set out as soon as possible the factors that will guide decisions, but as/when we lift restrictions, we must be able to suppress virus in different ways, for example: test, trace, isolate.”
One can interpret Sturgeon’s pivot in different ways, but the reasoning is less important than the fact that it is an observable shift, which appears to be laying the groundwork for a possible strategic rupture with Johnson, a Prime Minister who appears to have had an almost criminally negligent attitude to Covid-19 at the start of the outbreak.
This shift is surely good news, but let’s be clear: a terrible toll has already been paid. As Helen Ward, professor of Public Health at Imperial College London, has written, there were eleven fateful days from 12 March (the day contact tracing and testing was abandoned) to 23 March (the day of a full lockdown) in which “tens, if not hundreds of thousands, of people will have been infected…The current best estimate is around one per cent of those infected will die.”
The question which may haunt the First Minister when this crisis is over is: ‘Why did I not doubt Boris Johnson sooner?’
Ben Wray, Source Direct
Hmm…Ah, yes, we’ve experienced this a bit more recently than Malta and Singapore.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWCIpCbXgAAwmWp?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWCIpYeXsAEEz25?format=jpg&name=900×900
oh dearie me,surely parody?
Then again, it is America after all?
Gifts keep coming for me today-well entertained. lol
https://twitter.com/cptnwillie/status/1251928632106250242
Regarding the discussion on testing arrivals at international airports, I saw this pertinent post over at Talking up Scotland.
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2020/03/22/2003733144
@Breeks 2:04pm
Exactly right, Breeks. Liar and coward Johnson’s narrow-minded desire for brexit must be used to the advantage of Scotland’s independence movement by the FM, whoever he or she is.
Also, if the current FM comes out with a wait-till-the-economy-recovers excuse to delay once again the fight for independence, she must be removed from office.
Re arrivals at Uk airports , I see that Joanna Cherry has written to P Patel re arrivals , link to her tweet showing her letter she has written to her .
https://mobile.twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1252194430515392514
Also there’s a live session on Parliament channel just now re human rights committee and Joanna Cherry will be asking questions –
https://mobile.twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1252139690863611910
@Tinto Chiel
I’m glad you are one of the few people who has bothered to inform yourself about Britain’s history in China since the 1840s. I find it interesting, and very revealing, that nothing at all is taught about any of this in the British school history curriculum.
(Oh and I used to drive past Tinto on my way to school in Lanark in the 1960s… )
ENHS quick of the mark today with their figures
But BBC website not showing them yet.
No BBC UK overall figures yet either.
N.Ireland no figures yet.? Maybe that’s the hold up!
Scotland……..today…..12…. Total…….915 BBC
Wales………..today…..09…..Total…….584 BBC
England………today….429…..Total…..14829 (ENHS)
N. Ireland……today….
——————————————————
UK…………..today…?????…Total…..????
Just to prove I’m not talking mince. Politics simply gives voice to and amplifies our bio-neurological biases. This is why a respect for the rule-of-law is vital. Full text.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3092984/
Tories are simply bio-neurologically impaired in terms of their capacity for ethically competent social practice and government. It’s not their fault, that’s the hand nature dealt them. This knowledge should advise the Scottish government to follow their own cognisance though.
People with lower emotional intelligence are more likely to hold right-wing views, study finds
https://www.psypost.org/2019/09/people-with-lower-emotional-intelligence-are-more-likely-to-hold-right-wing-views-study-finds-54369
Just one of those days when medical people block your ‘end the lockdown’ cavalcade.
https://twitter.com/MarcZenn/status/1251975162926227457
The Scottish Government could start by sorting the Scottish civil service out, and restoring a legal respect for biology in Scots law. That will mean the professional politicians and gender fascists within the SNP, and Scotland’s out-of-touch judiciary, will need to stop supporting the self-ID of sex.
Public Policy and the Future of Bioethics
https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/fss/journals/gsp/docs/volume1number1/acgspvol1no12005.pdf
@CameronB Brodie
That’s one of the problems in reality there is no Scottish Civil Service just as there is no Scottish BBC. When you work for them your employer is in London, nobody actually works for BBC Scotland (staff members not contractors).
jfngw
My experience of the Scottish Office, though very limited, gave me the impression of an institutional culture of opposition to indy.
I can’t think of one political leader that I can stand behind in our fight for Scottish Independence.
Republicofscotland 2.34pm
Every Colony who had the temerity to even think of breaking the chains of english rule went through the same threats of “You couldn’t survive without England’s broad shoulders being there to support you”
Sound familiar???
I got the impression the Scottish Office was not so much concerned with the good governance of Scotland, as the good governance of Scotland withing the confines of the British state. It is a part of HMG civil service, so will always view the law from the legal parochialism of Whitehall’s perspective.
Scotland……..today…..12…. Total…….915 BBC
Wales………..today…..09…..Total…….584 BBC
England………today….429…..Total…..14829
N. Ireland……today…. still nothing.
——————————————————
UK…………..today…449 ..…Total…..16059
You could have made an argument for Nicola’s ‘4 nation’ approach to tackling this virus before now because it makes logistical sense, but surely not now, and not ever again, after the weekend’s revelations, and the Westminster government’s response to the crisis?
Time to make our own decisions and stop hanging on to ‘mothers’ apron strings, Nicola!
From earlier:
BBC’s Lisa Summers asks if the Louisa Jordan Hospital might be a waste of money!
https://archive.is/IjNg7
16 poor souls shot dead in Nova Scotia , RIP.
@ crazycat @ mike cassidy – just got back to the thread. I too have screeds of bookmarked tweets to scroll through before finding what I was talking about re Ruth May’s husband Nigel Beverley.
Nigel Beverley, Chair of Basildon & Thurrock NHSFT, was interim CEO at Hinchingbrooke, under East of England SHA where Ruth May his wife was CN
He’s also got senior posts at ATOS & Carillion on his LinkedIn CV
https://linkedin.com/in/nigel-beverley-17b13512?originalSubdomain=uk
ATOS – Vice President, Head of UK Health Atos
SYNOVIA Ltd – Director
CARILLION – Business Development director ( handy!).
https://twitter.com/TjayJT/status/1248874863206555648?s=20
@CaeronB Brodie
That hardly surprises me, it’s a UK institution as is the BBC. Their role is to preserve the UK, it’s unlikely you would have any career progression if they had any inkling you were an independence supporter. The only question from people at the top of BBC Scotland when instructed to jump by London is ‘how high’. I don’t have any experience of the civil service but plenty with the BBC.
Nicola Sturgeon is head and shoulders above any other UK politicians when it comes to telling the public just what is going on during this pandemic.
No hesitation and straight answers to questions designed to embarrass and belittle the Scottish government. Everyone one of them.
Compare and contrast with the 5 O’Clock press conference from No 10 where the questions are soft and NOT answering the question is the order of the day.
Scotland is in a much better place than the rest of the UK during this crisis thanks to the competence of the Scottish government and their leadership.
Who here would prefer Johnson, Hancock, Gove, Rabb, Patel and the rest of the incompetents to be in sole charge of decision making in Scotland right now?
Don’t be shy, raise your hands up and clap for Boris if that is your want.
jfngw
Cultural myopia and institutional rigidity. That lead to poor practice and ineffective delivery of service. That’s not good as it undermines democracy.
Ayeright
I don’t judge the FM’s competence in comparison to BoJo, I rely on my appreciation of the law and public policy. I think see needed to set her own agenda much earlier. Time will tell.
callmedave@4.31
Aye they should have called it “The Scotland is Shite” Hospital,
EBC Shortbread would be talking it up big style.
I suppose the easy question to the EBC when talking about wasting money is “When is the waste of money train set coming to Scotland?+ every other English infrastructure project Scotland has paid for.
This sort of appreciation of the law doesn’t gel with the approach to the law that the Scottish civil service has been instructed to follow. This significantly undermines the potential to fight prejudice and inequality in Scotland. Just like British constitutionalism.
Law and Neuroscience Bibliography
https://www.lawneuro.org/bibliography.php
Capella
Back in 2008 Nigel Beverley was director of NHS services at Atos Healthcare.
http://archive.is/8rvWN
Poacher turned poacher?
Pete says: at 12:42 pm
“Tories tend to want to get on in life and stand on their own feet which I suppose can be taken as greed”
Odd then that you lot do your damnedest to prevent Scotland from er.. Standing on her own two feet.
So what is it then?
Is it that you are Scottish, but lacking in confidence and need the re-assurance of Mother England’s apron strings?
Or are you English agents, tasked with squeezing as much profit from Scotland as possible, for as long as you can?
Perhaps feeble-minded “Uncle Toms”, dazzled by the majesty of all things English and keen to emulate them but not quite greedy enough to deprive them of their tartan cash-cow?
Whatever happened to NS laying a pathway out of lockdown this week? I think someone in the UK government has put pressure on her over the weekend to step back in line with the “4 nations approach”.
There were only 12 deaths recorded in Scotland today, if this trend continues it could be within the single digits or even 0 this week. Surely we are at the point here in Scotland where the massive economic damage done by the lockdown and the cancellation of normal NHS operations is going to cause more deaths than the actual virus. If NS won’t take different steps from the UK gov to end this lockdown considering Scotland’s better position then what is the point of holding a daily press conference?
I think NHS louisa jordan will turn out to be a waste of money because the hospitals here in Glasgow are half empty, they don’t actually need anymore capacity.
British constitutional law and practice lack coherence and compatibility with international human rights law (see the “Right to Development”). So British constitutional law and practice is incapable of protecting the human rights of those living in Scotland. Will some please make recourse to PROTECTIVE FORCE of international human rights law.
The Right to Health
https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publications/Factsheet31.pdf
@Stonky 2.58: happen to be reading Holland’s “Rubicon” at the moment, about the rise of Julius Caesar and the Romans’ insatiable greed and lust for conquest, which fuelled misery, slavery and genocide on a world scale. I came upon this sentence:
“Enthusiasts for empire argued that Rome had a civiling mission; that because her values and institutions were self-evidently superior to those of barbarians, she had a duty to propagate them; that only once the whole globe had been subjected to her rule could there be a universal peace.”
Substitute “Britain” for “Rome” and it could equally describe the British Empire, which is probably why sociopathic Tory numbskulls like Johnson love emptily parroting classical quotations while displaying their trademark sense of entitlement, arrogance and lack of principle.
Btw: worry not, Tinto is still there, and looking lovely today 🙂
Col Blimp
I am a Brexiteer which shows I want the UK to be independent.
Unlike you I feel myself to be firstly British and secondly Scottish.
I feel just as close to a Yorkshireman as to an Aberdonian.
That’s just how it is.
Nothing to do with money, prosperity, etc.
My feelings about Brexit are probably the same as yours regarding Scottish independence.
Just a feeling of belonging and who my fellow countrymen are.
Before Brexit I decided I was happy to be around 10% poorer if it meant breaking free.
I suppose most of you guys are much the same.
Only things is, you talk plenty but don’t do very much.
The present leadership of the SNP are very comfortable with devolution and it will take a big shake up to put some fire in their bellies.
You need a Farage character.
N. Ireland: Figures not long posted.
There have been a further 13 deaths linked to Covid-19 in Northern Ireland, Health Minister Robin Swann has announced.
It brings the total number of deaths recorded by the Public Health Agency to 207.
“You need a Farage character.”
Economic inequality and the rise of far?right populism:
A social psychological analysis
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/casp.2409
BBC absolutely struggling now to keep the protective cordon (lies) around the incompetent behaviour of this useless government.
They are faffing around helplessly as all the previous lies they have told collapse around them and are now coming back to haunt them, 30,000 ventilators, 100,000 tests by the end of the month.
3 million test kits to be distributed by Amazon and Boots for home testing! Halfwits is too kind, they have over promised and under delivered.
At least Nicola Sturgeon has not over-promised, she said 3500 test by the end of the month and is confident of exceeding that. The Scottish government procurement of PPE is in much better shape than elsewhere.
Count your blessings and be thankful that the clowns mainly reside in Westminster and not here in Scotland.
Ayeright,
I quite agree. As a managerially competent colonial governor, it is difficult to fault Nicola.
“You need a Farage character.”
The Brexit referendum shifted the political spectrum in Brexitania way off to the right. The vote was sold on the back of welfare chauvinism and xenophobia, though the media have eased off in that respect. The damage has been done though, and Westminster has seen fit to strip Scotland of our history and legal identity. That can not be allowed.
https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10083655/1/Brexit_Accepted.pdf
@ Willie 2.08pm , Willie I would dispute the claims by common weal that NS is deviating from bozos methodology , I listened to her earlier broadcast where IMO she was softening us up to the introduction of a slow return to normality very , very soon , obviously that would have to happen at some time as we cannot remain locked down indefinitely
But is it just a coincidence that bozo and his cabal of arsewipes have been punting this very thing very recently and if Scotland were to remain in lock down outwith the maisters wishes it would create somewhat of a conundrum which NS would have to face
And right there is the problem ( is Scotland ready and healthy enough ) financially and otherwise to refuse to follow bozos orders , or will our FM do her normal and capitulate and acquiesce to her maisters wishes and risk the health of the Scottish nation being enveloped by a resurgence of the virus . Oh what a quandary
warning : from JPM, a body interested only in profit like no other, except maybe Goldman Sachs; tho to be fair, investors want the best information
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/where-world-corona-curve-moment-over-hump
– lots of nice charts you’ve probably seen before … wait for it … wait for it … scroll down to the bottom and see
NESSIES HUMPS
oh dear.
that doesn’t help.
Another day of English/British nationalist incompetence. Meanwhile liar and coward Johnson remains hiding under his bed-sheets.
JPM can do one.
THE FIRST DUTY OF GOVERNMENT:
PROTECTION, LIBERTY AND THE
FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT
https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3172&context=dlj
Col.Blimp IV 5:26 pm
You wrote “Odd then that you lot do your damnedest to prevent Scotland from er.. Standing on her own two feet”
After all this time. After everything that has been said. After the history has been written thus far … you still have it arse backwards!
Neither the English, the Welsh nor the Northern Irish have ever been asked if the want to be in the Union. Nor have they opposed Scotland leaving the Union
The only people that have voted in a referendum on Scottish independence are … Scottish voters!
Scottish voters voted by a majority to remain in the Union.
Every day, day after day, we hear the same b*****cks, from the same people with the same revisionist nonsense about the English, or Westminster, stopping Independence.
You know what they say, if you keep doing the same thing then expect the same outcome.
Please come up with something, anything, new to inspire your fellow countrymen to follow your lead.
But the “them nasty English folk are stopping us from being independent” is not getting you anywhere. No one, other than a few nutters on here, believes that. It just makes you look silly.
It is clear dave views the world from the perspective of English/British exceptionalism, as he appears incapable of admitting the British state swung the 2014 ref in favoure of yoonyawn. Or that Brexit is incompatible with the Treaty of Union or international human rights law. That’s not very nice of dave.
There Is A Human Right To Health, And This Is How It Works
https://eachother.org.uk/is-there-a-right-to-health/
Belgium——-490.35
Spain———-437.45
Italy————391.32
France——–302.08
UK————-236.57
Netherlands-215.00
Sweden——152.49
Ireland——–123.54
USA———–122.91
UK current 5th worst in world for deaths per million of population. If France has included deaths outside hospital we are probably in reality 4th.
The Tory party oppose Independence with their heart and soul, it is the Tory party that control the lying BBC and are in control of the media. They lie on behalf of the Tory party and the status quo of the UK. This is undeniable.
The billionaire owners of the newspapers are Tories one and all so to are the leaders of the CBI and just about every boardroom in the UK is stuffed full of them.
The VOW wasn’t delivered, just another lie to appease us. Instead, we got EVEL the day after the referendum announced on the steps of No 10, the Scots are wiser now and next time the result will be massively in favour of YES.
Scotland will vote to become an Independent country, without a doubt.
Not content with not recognising Scotland as a country (the BBC prefers to think of British rather than Scottish). It now turns out that their e-mailing system doesn’t (wont more like) recognise .Scot e-mail addresses either.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18392104.rejection-scot-email-addresses-another-baffling-incident-bbc/
Has any credible authority got a calculation of “excess deaths” over historical averages?
– the hidden deaths in care homes and at home cannot hide forever.
Hi Pete at 5:46 pm
You typed,
“Unlike you I feel myself to be firstly British and secondly Scottish.”
I know this is going to make your head explode but there is no nation, state or country called “Britain”. If you were born somewhere in the British Isles, then you are British. As am I.
However, in terms of being born in the NATION of Scotland, I am Scottish. You claim that your being Scottish, ie one of the nation of Scotland, is secondary to your ‘Britishness”.
I think your downgrading of your status as “Scottish” says a lot about your politics. Go into the corner of the room and cringe…
@ mike cassidy 5.18 – well spotted. Nigel Beverley can’t help it if he’s lucky 🙂
Brian Doonthetoon 😉
Bdtt
Sorry, I’m not bothered about your nitpicking.
Okay, I was born in Scotland but I FEEL myself to be first and foremost, British.
Unlike you, I am quite comfortable with that and during schooldays loved to learn about Scottish and British history and especially the British Empire which stretched far and wide with full Scottish participation.
Sorry, definitions of nationhood don’t mean a lot to me other than I am British.
@confused
Yes, the governments publish them every week. I gave a link to the England and Wales ones at 9:45am today.
Ayeright Wrong, the Scotland Act 2016 implemented the vow and still Yes is polling under 50% in the last Panelbase poll
Craig Murray 5:56 pm –
Ayeright,
I quite agree. As a managerially competent colonial governor, it is difficult to fault Nicola.
I do feel compelled to point out that Nicola Sturgeon was elected to lead the Scottish government, firstly by us, then by Holyrood, whereas a colonial governor is appointed by the ruling state.
Alister Jack OTOH, is an incompetent colonial governor.
Well Sensibledave. Of course the Westminster Government never says “you can’t have Independence” and of course we all know that the No campaign won by 55% to 45% in 2014.
However the No campaign was backed to the hilt 100% by Westminster with huge amounts of money and propaganda, while the Yes campaign was starved of publicity and had to raise its own funds.
The propaganda of the No campaign was probably the most mendacious and vicious ever seen.
Surely everyone remembers such gems as –
“You will be kicked out of the EU. The only way to stay in the EU is to vote no.”
“”You will lose your pensions if you vote Yes” (Gordon Brown).
“You will lose access to transplant organs and blood transfusions. (Gordon Brown again).
“Scotland will not be allowed to use the pound” (although we already own a share of the Bank of England and the pound is a currency anyone can use.)
“There will be a hard border and armed guards at Berwick.”
“Scotland will only get a population share of any oil reserves”. (despite almost all the oil being in Scottish waters.)
“ Lead is. Don’t Leave us” (David Cameron, a few days before his infamous EVEL speech).
And so on and so on.
The whole No campaign was driven by what the London civil service boasted was “Project Fear” and consisted of vicious lies from start to finish. The MSM was 100% behind them and had a non-stop and shameful series of articles about the SNP, and Alex Salmond in particular, comparing them to Nazis, fascists, North Korea, Cuba, and every rabid dictatorship. Scotland on Sunday even had a cartoon of an SNP activist raising a swastika flag.
So, sensibledave,. Yes, they won their disgusting lying campaign, but by only 10%. An amazing result considering how the dice were loaded against the Yes campaign.
It will be different next time.
Craig Murray Could Dame Nicola be in order? She has already ruled out any indyref for the rest of the year and effectively ruled it out without Westminster aprroval beyond that?
ta – jngw, found this one
https://cf-particle-html.eip.telegraph.co.uk/054bd17d-dc26-4151-bf7b-458362ad52a0.html
– it’s a bit lacking in scale markings, usually a bad sign; the scotland graph looks different, maybe the numbers are more up to date; official covid a massive underestimate
you could have an interesting debate; if I fell off my roof say, and broke my neck while trying to do some stupid DIY bollocks … is that still covid?
– if I was only doing DIY since I am in lockdown, and I am only on my roof because I cannot get a roofer … ?
“covid lockdown aggravated misadventure”
Hi Pete at 7:12 pm
You typed,
“Okay, I was born in Scotland but I FEEL myself to be first and foremost, British.”
I too am British, being a native of the British Isles. I am also Scottish, having been born in Scotland and continuing to live in Scotland. Neither status takes precedence over the other.
However, in your opinion, your status as a native of the British Isles is more important than your status as a Scotsman. Why?
You also typed,
“Sorry, definitions of nationhood don’t mean a lot to me other than I am British.”
Yes, you’ve typed that already. I agree with you. You are British. So am I. What I’m trying to understand is why your status as a native of the British Isles, and your affection for the non-existent nation of “Britain”, is more important to you than your status as a Scotsman.
Can anyone believe how thick this car salesman is?
Na, neither can I.
https://twitter.com/Jackson_Carlaw/status/1252157852803792897
I’ve seen it all now, failed wannabe Tory councilor supporting a comments by Craig Murray as they share the same agenda. Get rid of Nicola Sturgeon as leader of the SNP.
Why might it be that Tories desire such an outcome? Not that difficult to guess the answer, is it?
The Unionists greatest hope is that Independence supporters lose faith in the SNP and dump Nicola Sturgeon, it weakens the chances of Scotland becoming Independent and they know it so are working very hard to encourage it.
Divide and conquer, easy peasy and par for the course for the Britnat state. They are however failing and they know it, that’s why their desperation is growing by the day.
Their fear is palpable and I can smell it and see it on the BBC.
@Confused
This is similar to the numbers I worked out but I gave them the leeway of using the maximum deaths in the last 5 years rather than the average, I thought this was the best (or worst depending how you look at it) it could be for the Gov. I only did Eng & Wales.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-greater-good/comment-page-1/#comment-2526179
Bdtt
Hi
You’re really becoming very legalistic and pedantic.
Like you I am a Scotsman along with all my family but over the years my allegiance has diminished somewhat by the constant demand for independence by folks like yourself.
I am very happy with being Scottish and British.
I used to have some time for the SNP when they were classified as ‘tartan Tories’ but since the move to the left they are now ‘tartan socialists’ and that’s not my scene at all.
Being honest, you must admit that you do have some real nutters on here who would put any reasonable person off.
In addition you seem to have embraced all the pc stuff including GRA and you have loads of LGBT MP’s and MSP’s.
I just feel more comfortable with Farage, Boris and Trump to name but 3.
Anyway, if you get independence and I’m still around, I’ll just accept it and hope that things work out okay.
@Pete
I too am a Scotchman, good to meet a fellow traveller. Your writing reminds of the great Daniel Defoe, a patriot of the highest order.
Ayeright
I most certainly do not doubt that Nicola appears to be an effective electoral asset for the SNP
I merely cannot see any connection between that and Independence. Or has something happened which I missed?
Hi Pete at 7:51 pm.
You typed,
“Like you I am a Scotsman along with all my family but over the years my allegiance has diminished somewhat by the constant demand for independence by folks like yourself.
I am very happy with being Scottish and British.”
So, what you’re saying is that because 50%+ of Scots support the idea of independence, you feel less Scottish? And, also, originally, you did say your status as Scottish was secondary to your status as a native of the British Isles. I noticed above that you put “Scottish” first. Perhaps a rethinking of your status?
You also stated,
“In addition you seem to have embraced all the pc stuff including GRA and you have loads of LGBT MP’s and MSP’s.”
I’ve embraced nothing! I think the proposed changes to the GRA have not been thought through properly.
The SNP has “loads of LGBT MP’s and MSP’s”???
LGBT Tories + UKIP (2000 onwards).
MPs
Matthew Parris
David Atkinson
Michael Portillo
Alan Duncan
Nigel Evans
Michael Fabricant
Crispin Blunt
Nick Gibb
Greg Barker
Justine Greening
Nick Herbert
Daniel Kawczynski
David Mundell
Stuart Andrew
Nick Boles
Conor Burns
Mike Freer
Margot James
Mark Menzies
Eric Ollerenshaw
Christopher Pincher
Iain Stewart
Ben Howlett
William Wragg
Damien Moore
Lee Rowley
Ross Thomson
Chris Clarkson
Elliot Colburn
Mark Fletcher
Peter Gibson
Antony Higginbotham
Paul Holmes
Kieran Mullan
Gary Sambrook
Jacob Young
MEPs
David Coburn (UKIP)
Tom Spencer
John Bowis
Nikki Sinclaire (UKIP)
Ian Duncan
MSPs
Ruth Davidson
Annie Wells
Jamie Greene
Looks like the right wing with which you are so comfortable, has “loads of LGBT MP’s and MSP’s”. All the above are tories, except where indicated. All sourced from:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBT_politicians_in_the_United_Kingdom
You finished with,
“Anyway, if you get independence and I’m still around, I’ll just accept it and hope that things work out okay.”
I’ll correct that for you…
“Anyway, if WE get independence and I’m still around, I’ll just accept it and hope that things work out okay.”
Don’t mention it…
New post.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com
HYUFD
If Westminster cant be “persuaded” to give section 30 the Westminster’s parties will not take part and the result will face significant challenge. Add to that you might not get a good majority (relative to the population). see Spain!
Use the Scottish parliament election with a wings party to take the legs away from the unionists
Make the Scottish parliament election the referendum – this parliament will act to dissolve the union.
“I just feel more comfortable with Farage, Boris and Trump to name but 3.”
Full text.
The Politics of Fear. What Right-Wing Populist Discourses Mean
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282572733_The_Politics_of_Fear_What_Right-Wing_Populist_Discourses_Mean
Shug Except legally Westminster is supreme to Holyrood and created Holyrood but anyway given Sturgeon has ruled out seeking independence without Westminster consent.
A wings party could split the Nat vote leading to a Unionist majority unless it can win seats on the list which is unlikely
Pete….you said
“ I just feel more comfortable with Farage, Boris and Trump to name but 3. “
We knew that Pete
You are an idiot , that had been obvious all along
Democracy across Europe is under pressure from a resurgence of fascism. The right-wing populist discourse of Brexitania’s media are driving Scotland in this direction.
Brexit forces Scottish culture down a path it distinctly rejects. Westminster’s failure to account for this fact, is simply not compatible with a Moral Law reading of the British constitution. If it ain’t compatible with the Moral Law, it ain’t compatible with social democracy.
You can still be a Conservative and support constitutional justice, British/Scotch Tories not so much, apparently.
Authoritarian Capitalism, Authoritarian Movements and
Authoritarian Communication
https://westminsterresearch.westminster.ac.uk/download/b94157d6d88da6261dc2696d8e62b6bb7fc2b56e9ae356e501b5f1705ebb68dd/1178906/AuthoritarianCapitalism_MCS.pdf
Fingers crossed for the Rev. His appeal against the Kezia Dugdale ruling is due to be heard tomorrow.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18392707.wings-scotland-v-kezia-dugdale-appeal-held-virtually/
MorvenM – will cross my eyes, fingers and toes for Stu.
Twathater @6.05pm
I agree entirely with your thoughts. Nicola Sturgeon has maintained the Bojo line since the beginning. She has not broken step with the Tories and folks are not taken with her theatrics of doing something a couple of hours before Westminster.
Bottom line is she signed up lock stock and barrel to the plan to spread the virus and protect the economy through a flawed science that calculated that the deaths of a few pensioners would develop herd immunity and save the economy.
Well it hasn’t worked, the UK is heading to have the worst death rate in Europe whilst the economy tanks. And it isn’t finished yet. Having let the genie out of the bottle, modelling suggests this is only phase one.
But yeh, Nicola will be keen to say that she did things differently from Westminster, that she is doing things differently now. Truth is she isn’t, she took us down the wrong route, and like Johnson will be consigned to the dustbin of history.
@Craig Murray
You fail to see any connection between Nicola Sturgeon, the leader of the SNP, the most prominent figurehead of Independence and the one person that has to increase support for Independence by appealing to those undecided that previously voted NO.
You see no connection between her, the SNP and our goal of Independence?
Aye Right!
Pete says:
“Just a feeling of belonging and who my fellow countrymen are. “
The problem with that Pete is that your feeling about fellow countrymen is very one-way.
Time and time again, the English show that they consider us second class compared to them, with the famous quote from some English general about sending the Scottish troops into a difficult battle, because we are hardy souls, and ‘IT IS NO GREAT LOSS IF THEY ARE KILLED’ or words to that effect (I’m sure some Winger will have the true quote to hand)
You must have to repeatedly engage in cognitive dissonance in order to ignore it when yet again some Englishman sneers about Scotland in front of an English audience and they break out into mocking laughter and applause.
Or we find out yet again that England has decided (as in the case when sighting our nuclear deterrent) that it is too dangerous to the local population to put them in England (risking about 80,000 lives if there was an accident) but that it was preferable to put them on right next to over one and a half million Scots.
I’m sure you’re not from Glasgow Pete, or you would know about this.
Have a think about it mate then join the Scots like us, who only want to fairness and self-determination for ourselves and our children after us.
Here’s a wee peek at that previous link, for those who don’t click links. Wasn’t the PM personifying Brexitania as Superman? IMHO, Westminster can not escape the charge of authoritarian legal practice in relations to Scotland.
This is what yoons support.
Fingers X’d too for Rev. History….virtual case. 🙂
@Craig Murray
I’ll also let the state of a great many btl comments on here that attack Nicola Sturgeon speak for themselves. Take a look, they are pathetic. I know that you can see that too but appear happy to join in.
A big mistake, because at the end of the day Nicola Sturgeon will remain in power and she will be the one to lead Scotland to its Independence. Despite the attempt at division guaranteed to FAIL.
@sensibledave;
you said: “But the “them nasty English folk are stopping us from being independent” is not getting you anywhere. No one, other than a few nutters on here, believes that. It just makes you look silly.”
Can you say dave, if you believe or otherwise that The Independence referendum was wholly a matter for Scots (as it was supposed to be)
Or that the English repeatedly interfered in the referendum and encouraged people like the queen, Barak Obama, (tried) Vladimir Putin, David Bowie, etc.
Do you deny that the BBC and every other media outlet did everything in their power to scare pensioners and the disabled with warnings about the looming disaster of independence ( better Together called it Project fear and it couldn’t have worked without the imbalance of Scotland media)
I can go on but it would be interesting if you could truthfully respond to the above points and then still tell us that we in Scotland were allowed to have a fair referendum.
HYFUD says:
20 April, 2020 at 7:17 pm
“…Ayeright Wrong, the Scotland Act 2016 implemented the vow…y
HYFUD – what a fcucking wanker.
@Pete,
`I was born in Scotland but I FEEL myself to be first and foremost, British.`
at least you are honest,
i love my country of Scotland you love the UK,
my flag is the Saltire your flag is the Union Flag,
i won`t change your mind you won`t change my mind.
Fireproofjim 7.29
Two things. Firstly, you blame Gordon Brown. That will be the Scottish Gordon Brown? The Gordon Brown that represented a constituency of Scottish folk? The Gordon Brown, from Scotland, that was Prime Minister of the UK? That one?
Secondly, you whine that others put alternative arguments and points of view. You poor lambs!
You conveniently forget the financial forecasts by the pro-Indy camp that were, and been shown to be, ridiculous.
But, I would suggest, independence is bigger than all that sideshow. It is a state of mind. Not everything is about money. For reasons that you simply css as not fathom, the majority of your fellow Scottish voters do not want Independence. You need to ask yourself why that is. Why is it even close? What is about the most vocal of independence supporters that make them do unattractive?
I think if you read the thread above, the persistent, constant, ever present, maligning of the english, England, Westminster ( it’s freely elected government) its politicians, it’s politics, etc. Other than nut job nationalists, few people think in those terms. I would again suggest the sentiments expressed so often and with such boring regularity … are the reasons you cannot get the support you need.
I am sure you will dismiss my comments …. and carry on as you were. Thus provoking the same outcomes. Thus meaning that independence gets further away … again. But hey, I am sure you know what you are doing eh?
@ MorvenM – re Kezia Dugdale – I came across an interesting article by George Kerevan on Kezia Dugdale, from 2017 in The National. It’s a brief history of his, and also John Swinney’s, involvement in the miners’ strike of 1984 . He outlines the history of the SNP and the independence movement.
http://archive.fo/OgnA1
I hope Stu wins his case and justice is restored.
@Pete and sensibledave,
I know there’s been a lot of abuse going back and forward between you guys and some posters on here, so you may be a bit suspicious of sharing your thoughts, but my questions are genuine as I do want to know how you feel about the questions I pose and will treat any responses with the respect they deserve.
For someone who claims to have voted against Brexit, HYFUD is certainly determined to convince us Scotland that we enjoy constitutional justice. Locke would probably boot his nads as well. 😉
The Tory government incompetence in the handling of this crisis is doing everything it possibly can to boost support for Independence.
The choice at the next referendum is between a totally useless and failed Tory government elected by England or an open and honest Scottish government elected by Scotland.
No contest and game over for the Union. That’s a certainty.
Patrick Roden
Sorry bud, I lack you tolerance. Well done you. 😉
Ayeright
You are looking forward to the next referendum. I’m looking forward to Treaty law and democracy being respected.
It looks (at last) that the ‘worm has turned’ and the Scottish government is beginning to call out Westminster’s incompetence.
Herald online reporting that the ScotGov is demanding to know why 8,000 people are still arriving at Scottish airports without any requirement for them to be checked for the virus.
Nicola is also ‘questioning’ the reason why UK taxpayers are asked to bail out tax avoiders and tax haven firms.
I can give Nicola the answer if she wants (it’s usually tory’s who own these tax haven firms and it is the tax-avoiding billionaires/multi-millionaires, who are the people who make the biggest donations to the Tories.
Glad I could help Nicola.
@ CBB,
Thanks bud, it’s always best to try not to get caught up in the trading of insults, because when you do you are playing into the other side’s hands.
We need to persuade more people if our dream is to be realized, they just need to cling on to the status quo, so the comments section descending into bitter name-calling and arguments suits them just fine.
Pete 7.51
I don’t get your logic.
There is no Britain there is only England, just switch on the tv ,it is 99% English, Scotland and Wales don’t get a look in.
They dominate everything from their history and their culture to business. They have stripped Scotland of its wealth and your British prime minister regards us as vermin and should be exterminated. I could go on and on.
So you can identify yourself as British if you want but that only confirms your `loyalty` lies with England.
Two tweets:
First, the Department of Health and Social Care (Westminster) lectures Mr Ethical on not spreading fake news because it undermines the fight against coronavirus.
https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/1252352395633295363?s=20
Second, the UK Department of Health and Social Care set up over 100 fake twitter accounts pretending to be nurses. Initially tweeted approvingly about “herd immunity” then more recently about wanting the country opened up again.
https://twitter.com/DrMoragKerr/status/1252352458505908225?s=20
Patrick Roden
I did try more amicable approaches to engaging dave but he didn’t want to bite. I’m done with him now. 😉
Ayeright,
OK. Do tell me when Nicola does something about Independence (other than declare it impossible without Boris permission).
I shall be on the edge of my seat.
Capella
Try to make the time to read that article about Authoritarian Capitalism. Its’ not very long and might put those fake NHS twitter accounts into context.
Craig Murray says:
20 April, 2020 at 11:13 pm
Ayeright,
OK. Do tell me when Nicola does something about Independence (other than declare it impossible without Boris permission).
I shall be on the edge of my seat.
—————————
Can you provide us your alternative route to independence Craig?
Just curious, courts, UDI , other?
@ CBB – will do – but not tonight – I’ve had a busy evening watching two episodes of Outlander (very stressful) and must now catch up on some zzzzzs.
Manyana 🙂
Nicola is not going to do anything about independence because her line is that we can’t have a referendum unless Boris gives his permission to have one.
Scotland has no history, has no prior constitution, has no law. Nothing in fact. It only came into existence after the 1998 Scotland Act. Well so says Nicola.
And of course Nicola threw the towel in on Brexit despite her having no mandate to do so. 63% of Scots voted to remain. Sturgeon ignored their wishes.
But it is in the Coronavirus emergency that Sturgeon will perish. She aligned her government with the right wing Brexiteer protect the economy, who cares if a few pensioners die, let’s spread for herd policies.
And it’s failed and as thousands die and the economy collapses the electorate will destroy this woman who would be Westminster’s Governor General for Scotland.
And whilst her government and the British Establishment conspired to do Alex Salmond down, they have failed. Just like she has failed the people won Coronavirus.
Her days at the helm are numbered. A new, reinvigorated independence movement will emerge, stronger and more determined.
Capella 😉
@Craig Murray
You’re staring to sound more like Willie.
Craig Murray says:
OK. Do tell me when Nicola does something about Independence
She along with many others already have,for years,…
did’nt u notice?
It is an independant Scotland that is coming!
like it or not.
We dont want fools gold.
“In” “de” “pen” “dant”
Sensibledave says: at 6:34 pm
“After the history has been written thus far … you still have it arse backwards!”
I have no idea which way your arse faces and no desire to find out!
You seem to be of the impression, or wish to promote the notion that I hold “The English”(PWTHU) responsible for all of Scotland’s woes.
Nothing could be further from the truth, history in respect of UK democracy (as we know it now) did not exist prior to 1928 and my own first encounter with it was in 1979.
“The English” in the guise of the representatives in their Sovereign Parliament, did not by any stretch of the imagination cover themselves in democratic glory on that occasion, by overruling the wishes of the Scottish electorate, as expressed at the ballot box.
Blame for anything malign that took place after that and before independence, can be laid in its entirety at the door of Scottish Unionists, and I look forward to the day, in this life or the next, when you are made atone for it.
And now, in the depths of the crisis, where death stalks the care homes, where the frontline medical and care staff go without PPE, without testing, a professor in Sturgeon’s coterie now declares that the SG should be banning all alcohol sales..
Seems that it’s alcohol that’s giving rise to all the extra deaths and not Coronavirus. So like the proposals for trials without juries, the proposal is nowcthst alcohol is to be banned.
I winder if this is the same professor who persuaded Sturgeon to go with the spread the virus policy.
You couldn’t make it up because it’s where Scottish Nasti Party meets the Nasiriyah Party. Two cheeks of the same arse. Truly shocking. Time Sturgeon was out.
In- de -pen -dent!
Let’s be fair though, Willie hates Sturgeon whereas you still have some respect.
I believe in the sovereignty of the Scottish people and when they say they want Independence it cannot be denied. Last time out the Scottish people said that they preferred to be ruled by Westminster and that was their choice.
Maybe next time it will be different and to do that we will need to change the minds of a number of those sovereign Scots that voted NO.
Nicola Sturgeon is working on that, the Section 30 issue is a red herring. When the sovereign Scots make it plain and clear to all that they want to be Independent nothing can stand in their way.
Nicola Sturgeon is playing a blinder and will win the day.
Divide and conquer LOL
In what way is @Peston qualified to comment on public health and economic maters. I thought he was a journalist who supported British nationalism and is lax with the truth. His media practice is certainly representative of a propagandist for authoritarian capitalism, that’s for sure.
Full text.
Positive Duties and Human Rights: Challenges, Opportunities and Conceptual Necessities
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1467-9248.12150
Ayeright
The FM appears blind to international human rights law. It is not in her competence to determine whether Scots can access their sovereign legal identities. She does not get to tell me what the rule-of-law looks like. If we don’t get an opportunity to vote to protect our legal identities from Brexit, preferably in a Scottish election, then our chances for indy will be very badly damaged. Our chance for escape severely diminished.
The Scottish government appears to view the world through the lens of British constitutional law. It needs to find a new perspective if it hopes to serve Scotland.
“As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK.”
So trashing the economy, everyone in lockdown, hurriedly building new makeshift hospitals, and holding conference calls with any business with a set of tools that might be able to cobble together a scrapheap challenge spec ventilator, does not meet the criteria of being “high consequence”.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid
@Peston is a Tory. That kind of makes him a natural enemy of the “precautionary principle” and public-health ethics. Full text.
The precautionary principle: in action for public health
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2092570/
@Scottish Government
Please protect our nation’s health better.
Precautionary Principle
https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199756797/obo-9780199756797-0046.xml
OK, so @Peston graduated in PPE from Balliol College, Oxford. He still turned out to be a minion of authoritarian capitalism, with scant regard for public safety. I appreciate harm is being done by a prolonged lock-down, but the blame for that rests squarely with Cummings and BoJo.
The Enemy between Us: The Psychological and Social Costs Of Inequality
http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/upload_documents/EJSP%20WilkPick%20final.pdf
.
CameronB,
I agree with your rejoinder to AyeRight.
He, she or it failed to answer the points raised by the owner of this website. Just one example…
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-betrayer/
AyeWrong more like it.
There is the aroma of rodent wafting from the words of AyeWrong. For what it’s worth, they are trolling on this forum: the proof being their FAILURE to answer WoS articles about Nicola Sturgeon such as “The “Betrayer”.
Several protagonists here, such as Ars*Wipe serve little purpose but wasting peoples’ time and energy.
It is a shame Stuart Campbell has not managed to invent a blocking button akin to the Twitter BLOCKLIST he invented for his old Twitter feed.
By that I mean ordinary WoS contributors could have a button to press which would extinguish ALL posts from individual WoS contributors that eminate from particular trolls or 77th Brigade employees. That way, FREE SPEECH IS PROTECTED, even from the literal excrement brigade. The AyeWrongs can still post and be resident Master Baiters, but their words are blanked to those of us scunnered by the never ending guff they post. All these trolls do is pollute the arguments won and points already proven on here by the site owner and those who have seen through the current Sturgeon Fifth Columnists.
It would save a lot of SCROLLING PAST the carp BTL comments.
@ Ayeright various comments , I think you have made it perfectly clear on here that you are a Stugeonite and she can do NO wrong it’s us disbelievers who are causing DIVISION , DIVISION
I remember a person on here who called themselves scotsrenewables and made a comment that they supported NS and they also berated us disbelievers , that person said that they would wait to hear Nicola’s big announcement on Jan 31st 2020 before they would consider their options
On the 31st Jan NS big announcement went down like a lead balloon in the indy camp and funny enough scotsrenewables didn’t post after that to my knowledge
Again funny enough Ayeright then appeared to start posting their support for Nicola and recently someone accused you of being scotsrenewables , don’t get me wrong I don’t care if you are or are not scotsrenewables but if you are you must have unfathomable faith in NS after her debacle of a speech , but it is insulting to berate others because they don’t share your unstinting adoration of the FM who has failed miserably on numerous occasions to fight for independence
It is those failures and her woke evangelical policies combined with the fact that she doesn’t listen that has turned many many people against her
Can @12.15
You hit the nail on the absolute head when you refer to the HM Government website that on 19th Match 2020 downgrades the COVID 19 virus from a High Consequence Infectious Disease due to ” its low mortality rate ( overall )”
And so based upon a previously anticipated High Consequence Infectious disease anticipation logged by the HM Government in ajanuary 2020 the very same government then went on to publish a mass public advertising campaign in February 2020 to assure the public both in England and in Scotland that “ HM Gov and the NHS were well prepared for the virus “ and that the people could help by coughningvandcsneezingbinto tissues, disposing ofvtissues and regular hand washing.
So :
– January 2020 log COVID 19 as a HCID, and
– Mid February 2020 adverisevthat the government is well prepared and folks need to wash hand,
– on 19 March 2020 downgrade and reclassify the virus as a non-HCID and then
– on 23rd March 2020 order a lockdown,
It doesn’t take even the most moronic citizen to review the foregoing and ask what the fuck is going on and to thank God that COVID 19 want a HCID.
Had it been an HCID with mortality rates of between anything from 9.9 % to 59.7% range of recent HCIDs like MERS, SARS, SIKA, EBOLA then an epidemic in the UK could have killed millions.
But that is exactly the risk that Boris Johnson, his government and a compliant First Minister played fast and loose with. Supported by their voodoo economic advisors they disregarded medical pleas for intervention preferring instead to protect the economy in what is now proved to be an utter disaster.
Trollers here say I am critical of the First Minister and to that I say yes.
She and her advisors let us down. They would have heard the siren warnings from around the world. They would have been aware of China and what the rest of the world were doing. They, would have been aware of the levels of preparedness, the levels of PPE within our care sector.
But that is what Johnson and Sturgeon gave us, and then you wonder why she went soft on Independence, soft on Scotland being taken out of the EU.
At least she had time for the executive branches of the Scottish state, to find time and money to pursue Alex Salmond in what was a vicious and nasty attempt to destroy the man and the movement.
Critical of Nicola Sturgeon. Yes, I am.
Sturgeon knew like Boris Johnson knew. Their calculations
I hear often from unionists like pete say “I am Scottish and British” when referring to their nationality, which is technically and politically true it’s convenient for them to say that because they don’t need to think about it or feel anything, it’s an established fact decided for them and sadly for us all.
But that’s not true nationality, true nationality resides in the heart and the soul and there can only be one, saying you are Scottish and British is no less absurd than saying I am Muslim & Catholic, if you believe in everything you believe in nothing
Al-Stuart 1.55
You wrote: “ By that I mean ordinary WoS contributors could have a button to press which would extinguish ALL posts from individual WoS contributors that eminate from particular trolls or 77th Brigade employees. That way, FREE SPEECHw IS PROTECTED, even from the literal excrement brigade.”
….. Mr Stuart demonstrates he hasn’t quite go his head round the meaning and concept of free speech! In essence, Mr Stuart would like to have the power to decide who may speak freely and wishes to be able to decide, unilaterally, whether he believes they are worthy of being heard or whether they are declared an unperson (a la 1984). In summary, Mr Stuart is a sinister, dystopian, control freak!
Patrick Roden 10.05
Firstly Patrick, you shouldn’t make the mistake of assuming that people that take issue with some comments here, or take a different political stance… are all anti-independence unionists.
I am English. I don’t mind whether Scotland becomes independent, or not. As I have repeated regularly and often, I am a democrat. If the Scots want and vote for Independence, then they should have it.
The common thread that I take issue with is the notion that everyone else is responsible for oppressing pro Indy Scots … except unionist Scots.
Try if you can, for one minute, to read the cobblers shown in this thread and most others, where the theme is England is evil, it voted Tory, tories are scum. Tories oppress jocks.
As an Englishman, I have a problem with folk that attempt to characterise my country, my fellow citizens, my duly elected government in the way many do here. I have a problem with the notion that the English or Westminster stopped Scottish independence. Scottish voters rejected independence.
Why do you think I might be less proud of my country, my fellow citizens, my government … than you? If I wrote that Scots are whining bunch of pissed up free loaders with leaders that consistently fail to deliver on their main priority and have an inferiority complex that is justified. How would you feel about such a characterisation?
I hope that helps.
Stuart ,
Wishing you all the best for today in your appeal case ,
http://archive.vn/PKDPd
Hope all goes very well for you today Stu.
@ Willie.
Quite a rant. We don’t know what was said at the Cobra meetings, or indeed the privy council meetings, so it’s nothing more than supposition to decide the FM didn’t argue against current policy or put forward an alternative strategy. That, because of Westminsters reserved powers, any strategy decided at the Cobra meeting would require UK wide implementation should be patently obvious. None of the alternative proposal I’ve read here would have worked unless Westminster agreed to hand back some more of our own cash. Funding is the key to implementing any strategy and Westminster controls that. The FM and the Health Secretary have done remarkably well to ensure that Scotland at this time, despite Hancocks attempt at ‘ harmonizing ‘ the procurement strategy across the 4 Health Services while at the same time stock piling essential PPE supplies, resulting in shortages, now released for English use only. That the FM and Health Secretary ensured that Scotland hasn’t suffered the same fate as the English surely deserves some credit.
The Care homes PPE fiasco is demonstrably a manufactured crisis using the Private Care home sector( responsible in law for meeting there own PPE requirements), surely you recognised that?
As far as the delayed speech by the FM, you remember it was put back to the 31st of January. Do you think that the looming Coronavirus crisis might have had some baring not only on the timing but also the content of her speech. Was it the speech she originally intended to make. I saw a very uncomfortable young women at that podium and though I was, like many, hugely disappointed Indy wasn’t called I now understand why. One other point, Johnson had his fist covid briefing in December 2019, if he new about, so did Hancock, but when was Nicola told? Was it at the time of the first Cobra meeting?
Sensibledave.
I am so unworthy and so chastened so contrite . I do not know why you take up so much of your precious time to raise my awareness of the true path?
Yea! Thinking about it,why ARE you so enlightened and enlightening to the Scots children of the benighted? AYE RIGHT.
Patrick Roden, the quote was from Major, later General, Wolfe who opined regarding Highlanders usefulness as troops.
“They are hardy, intrepid, accustomed to a rough country, and no great mischief if they fall.”
He faced the Highland charge at Culloden, and later served in the Americas, dying at Quebec.
Good luck today Stu.
@ Dave the Hypocrite
At it again.
‘ I have problem with people who characterize my country, my fellow country, my government ‘
How about too wee, too stupid, too poor.
Or how how about vermin that should be exterminated. Or Scots Natsis, blood and soil nationalists, anti English racists. Subsidy junkies.
Anyway, you have a nice day.
Sensibledave says
“If I wrote that Scots are whining bunch of pissed up free loaders with leaders that consistently fail to deliver on their main priority and have an inferiority complex that is justified. How would you feel about such a characterisation?”
You have described more or less perfectly the post extinction Scottish Labour MP.
://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pandora/baron-zebedee-should-have-a-spring-in-his-step-433201.html
sorry :
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pandora/baron-zebedee-should-have-a-spring-in-his-step-433201.html
Famous 15
… there you go again. On what basis, using what evidence, do you insinuate that I operate under multiple names?
None. Like many things, you just make s**t up.
Rather than going down another tinfoil hat conspiracy theory route to try and deflect away from my comments, why not try and respond to the comments?
Is it because you can’t?
Joanna Cherry calling for airport virus screening in the UK after around 260,000 people continue to arrive in the UK each week, with a percentage of those passengers heading for Scotland.
Other countries have set up testing points at their airports but as usual Scotland cannot defend itself from the virus entering via its airports, as the matter is controlled by Westminster under the devolution settlement.
Sensibleave.
Are you ON something?
I did not mention multiple names and it is not a conspiracy theory when they are really out to get you.
And come to think of it I did not mention conspiracy.
Chancer might be more appropriate for you.
What I did say,to paraphrase, is why do you waste your precious time on us unworthy Scots?
Meanwhile author Phil Pullman has suggested UK ministers should be charged with conspiracy to murder, due to the failure to obtain enough PPE for healthcare staff. Pullman adds the failure of the UK government on missing out on PPE from the EU, should see the entire front bench resign.
I’ll tell you idiot Dave,
Our hate stems from the contempt Westminster has for my country Scotland.
It comes from my country not being able to have the government we vote for.
There is a 70 year period where Scotland has never given the Tories a majority
Vote as this nation wants nothing to do with their fascist policies.
Our hate for them stems from the McCrone report where Scotland is to be denied
access to vital information regarding our future.
The Westminster Top Secret also stops us knowing who the corrupt politicians and police were
Involved in the Dunblane massacre.
Scotland had 6,000 square miles of Maritime waters stolen in the night from us to gift oil and fishing
Rights to the thieves running the nation next door.
We illegally had the Poll tax imposed against us.
We have no true media representation in my country with all 37 UK newspapers
Anti independence as were all TV and Radio Stations.
We the Yes vote was ahead in the polls wouldn’t a genuine media reflect and represent the thoughts
Of half the Nation?
I despise the law being broken repeatedly against Scotland but England doesn’t care as its in their
Favour. The Purda was broken illegally at Indy Ref 1.
Carmichael lied and wasted £1 million of public money, even admitted to it and nothing was done?
Even the so called Westminster parliamentary standards committee decided his action were alright?
Several civil servants broke the law to SNP detriment and I include Lesley Evans here but absolutely
No action taken.
Every single promise made by Westminster’s parties at Indy Ref 1 was broken.
Every one.
EVEL stops a Scottish based MP from becoming PM
as they would not be allowed to attend English only topics.
Not happy with Scotland paying for English projects like your Chinese Nuclear planet, and HS2
that does Zero for Scotland.
I didn’t like Scottish Police and Fire Services being unique in not being able to recover VAT.
Don’t accept the various English Mafias who have hounded the Rev
Don’t like the fact that Scottish MPs influence Westminster votes once in every 200 votes.
Fingers getting sore now stating the bleeding obvious but I don’t want to be pulled out of Europe against our Nations will and I don’t want a Parliament who clearly ignored the epidemic warnings
From Cygnus and who were happy to kill us off with Herd Immunity and who cannot deliver basic
PPE for those sent to the front line to gamble with death.
Dave and Pete, your Parliament is a disgrace and as you know your views are ripped apart here every day. You are here to disrupt and fish for the gullible who might not know you for what you are
I very much hope that justice prevails today fo the Rev but how hopeful can we be after the absurd
Decision to protect a most pathetic Labour leader because she is too stupid to know what she is saying.
The Rev’s appeal in the Kezia Dugdale ruling is to be held virtually, tomorrow. It will be held in the Inner court of Session, it will be the first Virtual court hearing in Scotland where the three judges, clerk and representatives for each party will be in separate locations.
Good luck Rev.
Alan Mackintosh says:
“They are hardy, intrepid, accustomed to a rough country, and no great mischief if they fall.”
I sort of half-remember reading an illustrated history book as a child, which had a depiction of Wolfe scaling the Hights of Abraham, accompanied by Highlanders, Red-Indians, Davy Crocket types and Redcoats.
I’m sure the narrative was that Wolfe had great regard for his Scottish troops and they of him and they cried rivers of tears when he “fell” (sniff, sniff).
I didn’t realise it at the time but I think the whole point of the exersise was to imbue in the young reader a pride in being allowed to be British and to subliminally show where your place as a Scotsman was, on the Imperial Totem Pole.
The views of this type of expert, an oncologist not a virologist, got us into this mess in the first place. https://english.alarabiya.net/en/coronavirus/2020/04/10/Coronavirus-No-return-to-normal-life-until-the-end-of-2021-says-US-expert
95k deaths, if even verifiably attributable to the current nCoV. on a planet of close to 8 billion is nothing exceptional.
Close to 10 million died world wide from various forms of cancer according to WHO in 2017.
OK, but out of clinical or demographic context that figure is actually fairly meaningless, just a piece of statistics.
Ayeright sturgeon?Aye right !
Effijy@9.31
Many thanks for taking the time to write that post, I can honestly say you have posted 100% of my thoughts, I hope every other Indy supporter is of the same belief.
Nice One.
Effigy
Firstly, I was asked by Patrick Roden to respond to his questions. So I did.
Secondly, and this is the genesis of your rant, you wrote “ It comes from my country not being able to have the government we vote for.”
Again, unlike any of the other home nations, the Scots held a referendum to ask Scots whether they want to be governed by Westminster, under the Westminster voting system, or be Independent. You know the result. Scotland has the government that the majority of Scottish voters said they wanted.
Why is that my fault? Or England’s fault or Westminster’s fault.
You are so used to saying this stuff you have probably convinced yourself it’s true.
And here’s the rub. If indyref2 were held today what do you believe the result would be? Cv19, uk leaving Eu, oil prices on the floor? Even the most ardent nut job on here probably believes that little has changed since indy1 … by implication somewhere around 50% of Scottish voters still don’t want independence!! And yet … that is, somehow, the fault of the English, Westminster, Tories, etc!
I think you are missing something. Don’t you?
Anyone remember the Rev saying ‘don’t feed the trolls’?
Anyone?
May I add my good wishes to the Rev Stu for an honest outcome today – it would make a change from all the dishonesty , manipulation and lies fleein’ aboot!
Effijy – brilliant. You know as do most of us that there is more, much more but Sensibledave doen’t. A common fault with English people is that they assume without any reserve that they “know” and therefoe if they are superior and entitled the others (us and many others) can’t know! Pity, really. My wife is from Birmingham and I have currently lived there for 8 months. I’ve travelled the world and lived in many places and allI can say about the English is that they are very much like everyone else except for one fact – from cradle to grave they are imbued with a false sense of national superiority and they express it regularly without any sense of awareness. Why does Dave have to call himself “sensible”? I’m sure Cameron Brodie can explain that much better than I can. The English – I like them just as I like all the other races i’ve met. I do find their sense of superiority and entitlement funny though. In sensible’s favour I do find him fairly reasonable until he forgets himself and posits that we are cowards/stupid for not voting for independence and of course it’s nothing to do with England – so why bother? “I hope that helps”!
Bill
I will try to stay calm.
You wrote “ A common fault with English people is that they assume without any reserve that they “know” and therefoe if they are superior and entitled the others (us and many others) can’t know”
You just ascribed a set of negative characteristics which, you argue, are a common fault of English people!!!! There is a word to describe people that think like that Bill.
You wrote it so casually. You wrote it as an immutable truth. You will huff and puff that I have pointed it out but you won’t change.
I rather suspect sir, it is exactly people like you, that think like you, and happily voice their thoughts like you do … that is unattractive to so many Scots.
Well said “ Effigy@ 0931 a.m .The notion that the UK WESTMINSTER political system is some sort of “ democracy” is for the birds This is an “ Establishment state controlled ( via MSM / BBC , radio, etc .2 party monopoly ( Ist eleven Tory and 2nd eleven Tory -light ( But not under Corbyn whom the establishment decreed would not get the keys to Downing st under any circumstances). Also the notion that the 2014 referendum was democratic ( in any way )with continual interference throughout the campaign via a media propaganda blitz from London ( not seen in this country “ since the 2nd world war “ to quote one journalist ) is quite sickening to any fair and reasonable citizen of Scotland . ( notwithstanding the postal voting controversy and “ the vow” which was a calculated ploy by Downing st to change the perception of the referendum vote from Independence v the status quo union / to Independence v Devo super duper most powerful devolved parliament on the planet Max .). A complete breach of Purdah and a Complete “ Con” perpetrated on the people of Scotland by the WESTMINSTER establishment . The 2014 referendum “ a democratic vote” ?? . Don’t insult the intelligence of the fair and reasonable citizens of Scotland with that assertion .
Dave, change your name before the Trades Descriptions Act put you in a tower.
Your mind dies let you absorb facts that you don’t want to kill at.
You have jumped over the fact that Indy Ref 1 was a complete media propaganda campaign
That the Purda was illegally broken, and that every single promise made in Westminster’s Vow
Was broken.
Without doubt more than 10% of No votes were cast by Scots
Wanting to stay in the EU.
We don’t accept political
Power goes to those who can lie the most.
Just as with Brexit, paid for by the very rich who
Had fears of the EU stopping money laundering
And Tax avoidance, the strategy was get the pensioners on
Your side by telling the NHS that keeps them alive with get
£350 Million per week extra.
Then then appealed to the drunk lager louts that you seen on
Holiday by assuring them they are superior beings and their
Empire is coming back.
Your whole English Political system is made up of lies and corruption.
Try justifying each of the points I made and maybe explain why the greatest
Commonwealth Games ever in Glasgow was refused any form of Central Funding
And Birmingham’s starts with £72 million.
How about equality of the UK bank being the Bank of England
But it has nothing to do with Scotland.
How about Scotland paying a tariff to send our electricity to
England on the National Grid.
How about Scotland contributing to London’s sewer and electrical network
Upgrade.
Maybe the English PPE manufactures being instructed not to sell to Scotland
But who sell internationally?
You have answered nothing and your points of view are as corrupt as your government.
My apologies to genuine contributors for last feed at the Troll Zoo.
Dog biscuit is another Tory that hates Sturgeon. What a surprise.
Lot of poison within our Scotland, auld folk trying to raise cash for charities and we have this shit.
https://www.lottoexposed.com/scottishchildrenslottery-exposed/
Notice the Yanks suffer mental issued with covid 19
Didn’t see any jollification on the BBC website this morning as I expected news of RAF planes to the rescue.
So I googled it. 🙁
https://archive.is/GKooA
Anyhoo! When it’s our turn I trust Auntie will keep mum too.
Aye right!
Well, Sensible, I gave you the opportunity and you grabbed it to avoid having to address any of Effijy’s comments. Very clever and “sensible”. So now you try to insult me in your usual civil, velvet glove, manner. You’d like to ascribe anti-Englishness to me, in which case your comprehension is letting you down too! Does “negative” and “funny” equate in your sensibility? “you’ll huff and puff but you won’t change”. I’m 76 years old now Sensible and for the first 45-50 years of my life I, like you, believed in the decency and rightness of all things British. A chance conversation with a Greek prompted me to broaden my reading habits (I suggest you do as well). From then on it has all been downhill. It’s a hard haul and it’s
embarrassing but it taught me to seek truth and not be intimated by those who claim to know the answers! Dont’ you try to label me as a racist because unlike you I can accept and acknowledge the problem with Scotland and some Scots but you can’t bear to accept that the behaviour of some English people is “funny”. Now answer Effijy!
ha ha Good parody,but wouldn’t suprise me if eegit did think it.
https://twitter.com/DickWinchester/status/1252526748828405760
SensibleDave @10:02am then @10:38am
So what if the oil price is in the toilet? If Scots want independence then why can’t we have it?
Oh, wait, you know better. You know that people living in Scotland in 2014 voted against it so you know that we should not be able to change our minds.
You know, you’re guilty of the very crime you lambasted Bill for.
“A British supplier of PPE told the Mail they were forced to sell millions of life- saving items overseas after attempts to equip the NHS were met with an ‘impenetrable wall of bureaucracy’.
The company said the UK procurement system was ‘unresponsive at best or incompetent at worst’ and delays were putting lives at risk.
Other firms told the Telegraph they had ‘no choice’ about sending masks, respirators and other pieces of kit abroad because the Government had repeatedly ignored offers of help.”
This government is an absolute disgrace, those that voted for them should be ashamed of themselves for championing Bojo the clown as Prime Minister. No one is laughing now.
Republicofscotland
“Good luck Rev.”
A sentiment echoed by us all, I’m sure.
Co-incidentally the link I posted @ 9.10 may serve as a good omen and a reminder of Ms Dugdale’s propensity to libelous hyperbole.
Her online manifestation denounced mine (unfairly) as an Anglophobic racist and subsequently her then employer similarly denounced my Moniker in a column in his constituency newspaper, devoted to vilifying cybernats.
Posting that link and mentioning that the Wee Nyaff was born in England was the “proof” of my (and by association all “cybernats”) inherent racism.
Sensibledave identifies as a democrat who is an Englishman who lives in England, he is to an extent either oppressed, or an oppressor. Hence why he is driven to spending so much of his time posting on a Scottish Indy blog.
Democracy as a concept should be fluid so that it can enable people to choose the direction they want to travel in as we progress forward through the passage of time.
He asked “Why do you think I might be less proud of my country, my fellow citizens, my government…than you?“.
I’ll proffer that his question is not valid as a straightforward equal comparison as his country and his fellow English citizens do not have their own true Government representing them.
Like us, they have a fudge of a setup in the form of the UK Parliament. By its design it inherently will not serve as a truly English democratic system because in principal it has democratic representation or “interference” from Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
The reason his question is not comparative is because England’s larger population share of the UK facilitates them having proportionally more democratic representation in the UK Parliament by a ratio of approximately 9 to 1 over the other nations in the UK. This in effect means that the UK gets what England wants.
So why does this democrat of an Englishman Dave feel the need to commit so much time to a Scottish Indy site when Scotland has barely a tenth of the democratic power to influence our own and England’s trajectory, whilst at the same time England has nearly ten times the advantage over Scotland, thus is able to dominate and deny Scotland a reciprocal level of democratic influence that his country has.
As Trump closes US borders to immigration, the egotistical meglamaniac, at least has the magnanimity to thank Russian President Putin for despatching millions of items of PPE to the USA, as death rate figures from Covid-19 in the USA surpasses 42,000.
Some in the media are claiming Putin is acting shrewdly, however for once Trump is right, to except the hand of friendship from Putin and save lives. Hopefully many old barriers will be torn down post Covid-19.
Good luck Stu.
“Posting that link and mentioning that the Wee Nyaff was born in England was the “proof” of my (and by association all “cybernats”) inherent racism.”
Interesting link Col.Blimp IV, of course the unionist mantra has always been based around indy supporters are racist with regards to English folk, even though that old chestnut has well and truly been debunked.
George Foulkes who’s mentioned in your link reminds me of his namesake George Robertson, who wildly claimed that an independent Scotland would lead to the Balkanisation of Western Europe. One wonders if he was on the whisky as well.
Deaths in England & Wales for the w/e 10th April 18,516. This is 80% higher than the 5 year average.
“The provisional number of deaths registered in the week is 2,129 higher than the previous week, and 7,996 higher than the five-year average for the week – meaning that almost 8,000 more people died than might statistically be expected for the time of year.”
That’s a rise os approx 80% much the same as Scotland reported last week. Deaths directly attributable to Covid-19 are 41% higher than the figures given out every day by this lying government.
“The death toll from coronavirus was 41 per cent higher than the figure in the daily total released by Government based on hospital reports.”
https://archive.vn/tspiY
Total UK deaths now must be greater than 25,000, the largest death toll in Europe exceeding those in Italy and Spain.
When will the government come clean? Don’t hold your breath.
Republicofscotland
George Robertson drunk?
I thought he had been bitten by a mad dog.
Come to think of it, he probably is the mad dog – as walking in the sun with Englishmen is all he thinks Scots should aspire to.
Aye right why do you think I’m a Tory?Purely because I disagree with you? That’s the first time in my life I’ve been called a Tory. Do you really think our First Minister is the one to lead us to Independence? Sadly Nicola Sturgeon seems less interested in Independence than ever. A Tory ha.I might not be your pal but that doesn’t make me a Tory. Anyway I need to go out and Check on our ground staff as the lawn won’t cut itself.
Hi Republicofscotland at 9:39 am.
You typed,
“The Rev’s appeal in the Kezia Dugdale ruling is to be held virtually, tomorrow.”
It’s actually on today. You can follow Philip Sim’s live tweets here:-
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim
His last one was around 11:45am.
It’s more pathetic to maintain faith in a leader who betrays us .Over to you Ayeright
Why a billion items of PPE is not enough
By Faisal Islam
https://archive.is/lkxSu
Doomed I say!
https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/04/21/latest-warning-for-sturgeon-as-oil-price-collapse-leads-united-arab-emirates-to-seek-re-entry-to-british-empire/
@Ayeright
The total registered deaths were slightly lower than I expected, around 9.000 more was what I anticipated. But we need to be careful with that weeks numbers as it ended on Good Friday, the registered death may be lower as it was a public holiday.
Bill McLean
Very kind. I get the impression dave is on the wind-up. Nobody could be that bigoted and culturally chauvinistic. Could they? Alternatively, his job is to disseminate misinformation in order to support English Torydum. The internet is literally crawling with paid stooges of authoritarian capitalism (see Brexit).
“It’s actually on today. You can follow Philip Sim’s live tweets here:-”
Thanks you Brian, the National newspaper (paper version) claims it is to be held tomorrow.
The online version of which I can’t read all of it because I haven’t subscribed, doesn’t mention tomorrow in the bits I can read, strange.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18392707.wings-scotland-v-kezia-dugdale-appeal-held-virtually/
Let us not forget the alacrity with which the SNP voted for draconian police powers Has that been conveniently forgotten.What you have in me is an Independence voter spurned by a corrupt party leadership who have no interest in Independence. So what do we do? Talk in circles? I don’t know why anyone thinks Nicola Sturgeon is the figurehead of Independence unless by figurehead you mean a lump of wood shaped like a woman.
Want to understand how English Torydum cons the people?
Right-wing populism and the dynamics of style: a discourse-analytic perspective on mediated political performances
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0132-6
Willie @ 2.08 pm on 20th APRIL
You, and the writers of the article you have cut and pasted onto this thread, have missed out a couple of telling snippets of information shedding light on the inside workings of the decision making process re Covid-19 reaction.
When Nicola talked of closing down schools sooner and restricted large outside gatherings to under 500 people in Scotland, Westminster (which allowed the Cheltenham Races to go ahead exposing 250,000 people; allowing a football match attended by 50,000 to take place in Liverpool against an Italian team), accused her of trying to upstage the Prime Minister and trying to score political points. They were so upset by her actions that there were calls for her to be removed and banned from future Cobra meetings and she was chastised for addressing the Prime Minister as Boris.
Schools in Scotland were shut before England and they responded very rapidly, closing down within a couple of days.
Which country has PPE?
Who was accused of making political gain when the English PPE companies were told to restrict sales to South Britain? clue…
not Boris… so even when she is right she is accused of being wrong and acting politically ( see Ayeright at 11.15am above) I presume you are aware that the journalist tweeting against Nicola in this matter has publicly apologised for accusing her of trying to stir up a grievance between England and Scotland?
Which country has lower infection/death rates?
Which country is underestimating it’s death rate by approximately 40%?
Which country has more confidence in their government’s handling of the event?
Which country has more confidence in their leader?
Seems that when Nicola does act she is condemned by one side and when she tries to compromise she is accused by the other.
I think the phrase is ‘ between a rock and a hard place’.
No government is getting this completely right, but some are doing better than others.
Well said Meg.
Thank you!
@meg merrilees
‘Fair comment’
PS:
FM and her ‘experts’ still hard at it as the questioners quiz and probe for a weakness or a slip.
Wide ranging ‘your Gov’ V ‘WM Gov’ kinda thing mainly! 🙂
I read this blog every day so i’m clearly interested in politics and Scotland’s future. I have no dislike for anyone based on colour, religion or nationality but I find it odd that Sensible tried to imply that I am a racist when I pointed out some English idiosyncrasies and described them as “funny”. When I first met my Sicilian friend Franco, about 25 years ago and living in Malta, he said “Ah you are a Scot – so you’ll have some blood in the whisky in your veins” – we laughed and have been friends since! I think Dave should change his nom-de-plume to “Sensitivedave” and get on some blogs in England to try to help them sort out their public services.
Some might accuse me of being a bit of a populist, which I wouldn’t try to deny. At least I try to substantiate my position through a scientific world view and a respect for the rule-of-law. English Torydum, not so much. Brexit is undeniably the result of right-wing populism, lacking any respect for legal or moral reason. Scotland must not be forced to submit to authoritarian capitalism, we must get a chance to defend our sovereign legal identities.
Othering others
Right-wing populism in UK media discourse on “new” immigration
https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1257&context=teachlearnfacpub
So on the day the BBC comes under fire in the National from Keith Brown for “England-centric” reporting, we have John Nicolson and Stuart MacDonald springing to the defence of Sara Smith on Twitter…
Seriously SNP. Go and have a lie down and get your fkg act together. At least pretend you’re interested in what’s going on.
Stuart McKay at 1108. Didn’t feel at all “lambasted” Stuart but disappointed at Sensible’s reaction which showed what I had said of some English people that I find “funny”. It seems that he can and does criticize people who post here but call the “English” funny and the old beast of exceptionalism screams! Sensible misrepresented me before on another thread a couple of weeks ago. I asked him to apologize Don’t know if he did as I couldn’t be arsed going back to look. I wrote to him today and i’ve suggested to the HYFUD that they get on to English blogs and see if they can sort things outin England.
No response – makes you think doen’t it!
Philip Sim informs us that Lord Carloway has sent Rev Stu’s case to Avizandum – I’m sure it is watertight … but is it fireproof?
http://www.deviantart.com/giuseppedirosso/art/The-Dragon-Prince-S3-Avizandum-3-821735991
If the cultural practice of English Torydum is not rejected absolutely, the cultural practices that give Scottish culture its’ unique character will be lost forever. Scotland’s sovereignty supports the principle of equality, English Torydum, not so much.
https://researchportal.bath.ac.uk/en/studentTheses/the-construction-of-a-common-identity-through-onlinediscourse-a-s
SNP have sold out!!
Can you smell that? It is the stink of fear and desparation LOL
lothianlad
I’m not sure if they’ve sold out. Their actions suggest a legal path-dependency that suggests their mode of understanding is all wrong. They appear to view British constitutional law and practice as holding legal force. It can’t do so without recourse to the natural law. Brexit is a rejection of natural law principles. And so is trans-activism.
The Nature of Philosophical Problems: Their Causes and Implications
Modes of Understanding: Particular Accounts
https://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780198712756.001.0001/acprof-9780198712756-chapter-3
Coronavirus: Boris Johnson to speak to the Trump
What the hell is he speaking to him for its about time he spoke to us the public about the shambles his Government is in.
So todays hospital only death total for England is 778.
The dreary simpleton tasked by Sky News to give us the detailed comment said this is a good sign as the numbers are much less than the spike same time last week of 803.
So there you go England, that’s todays Sky News updated analysis of England’s Pandemic situation for you.
As far as Indyref2 goes when is ‘next time ‘? I’m not keen on voting for politicians who remove our civil rights .Is there no way to get you to understand the problem of a people locked up in their own homes demanding more lockdown? Here’s a question how long will it be necessary to keep us under house arrest?It is house arrest by the way. Will it be until virus is dealt with or when Nicola Sturgeons political problems are solved? If non of the Sturgeon acolytes on here can’t see what she is then they are just as then they are as daft as K. Dugdale. I am disappointed that so many prefer safety over freedom . Now Westminster Government has us where it wants us politically inactive. Civil rights remember them You have no argument to defend the theft of our rights. And bollocks to the idea that failure to comply with Government instructions is putting lives in danger.What cheap propaganda.
Go Sky News Australia .You know it makes sense
The entire UK Government lie, it is a trait that is necessary to be a minister that works for chief lier Johnson.
Coronavirus: UK only formally asked Turkey for PPE shipment help on Sunday – after telling Britons it was on its way
None of the 84 tonnes of equipment that the government had said would arrive on Sunday is yet in the UK.”
They stand there at the podium in No 10 and tell barefaced lies about shipments of PPE arrivng that hasn’t even been ordered at that time. It couldn’t get much worse, could it?
https://archive.vn/pbJ1n
Dog biscuit, the Tory howling at the moon hahaha
@ Meg Merrilees.
Well said.
80% more deaths in a week than the 5 year average despite being in lockdown for almost a month. Figures are only slowly dropping now, yet some halfwits think there should be no lockdown.
Freedom or something, no point in being free if you’re deid!
Breeks , not only do we have those two doing their stupid thing but we have Angus Robertson praising journalists who are working so hard during this epidemic .
He obviously doesn’t listen to the cretinous / devious / manipulating questions which the First Minister has to filed on a daily basis.
‘field’ obviously.
Ayeright
“Freedom or something, no point in being free if you’re deid!”
That’s a foundational component of being human, avoiding being deid. 😉
Rapid Risk Assessment of
Acute Public Health Events
https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstreams/67090/retrieve
No I’m howling at you Ayeright because you persist in trying to fool the Scots into believing Nicola Sturgeon is going to lead us to Independence.She can’t even think or act independently as it is. If she is who you’re relying on you might be in for a big disappointment. Maybe I should change my name to nowrong. My chaps have done a good job of my lawn.Given the current circumstances I’ll have to have my Tory tea party on my own . I couldn’t possibly take tea with the help I can see your not interested in answering questions .You would rather sling abuse. Here you are defending a First Minister who is ramming it up you
@Ayeright
Just read your post: Jings!
So they put up the head park keeper(Jenrick) in England to take the flak at the briefing to tell us lies that the senior members of the cabinet didn’t have the stomach to tell us themselves.
He’ll know who his friends are now I’m sure. FGS!
I post this wee bit from the story. 🙁
……………………………………………………….
Robert Jenrick, the housing secretary, said at the daily Downing Street press briefing on Saturday that 84 tonnes of the gear, including 400,000 urgently needed clinical gowns, would arrive in the UK from Turkey the following day.
It failed to materialise, but no explanation for the delay was given.
In fact two sources have told Sky News that no formal request was made to the Turkish authorities – who were not supplying the shipment, but whose help was sought to get it to the UK – until Sunday.
—————————————————————-
Forgot about my link from earlier re: PPE in Turkey
https://archive.is/GKooA
Ayeright, In Sweden they have fewer casualties and their Government have not locked their population down. Would you care to address that?
Somebody was lamenting the inability to hide/block posts when reading through the mountains of witty, informative and well-reasoned comments posted here.
Well, if you know about browser user scripts then I have a solution. If you don’t know what that is stop right there.
If you install a user script add-on such as greasemonkey, tampermonkey or violentmonkey then you can add the following script:
// ==UserScript==
// @name WOS Hammer
// @namespace Violentmonkey Scripts
// @match https://wingsoverscotland.com/*
// @grant none
// @version 1.0
// @author Stuart MacKay
// @description 21/04/2020, 14:50:12
// @require https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/jquery/3.3.1/jquery.js
// ==/UserScript==
(function() {
‘use strict’;
// Hide all posts from selected commenters.
function hideCommenter(name) {
$(‘cite[class=”fn”]’).each(function () {
if (name === $(this).attr(‘data-commenter’)) {
$(this).closest(‘li’).css(“display”, “none”);
}
});
}
$(‘cite[class=”fn”]’).each(function () {
let name = $(this).contents().text().trim();
$(this).prepend(‘x ‘);
$(this).attr(‘data-commenter’, name);
$(this).children(“:first”).click(function () {
hideCommenter(name);
});
});
})();
// End of script
Sorry about the formatting.
When you load a page from Wings, this script displays a little ‘x’ next to the name of each commenter. If you click on it then all their posts will be hidden.
If you reload the page, the hidden comments will re-appear but it’s just as much fun nuking them a second time as it was the first.
This is only for the technically minded. It’s provided as-is with no
guarantees. It works for me on Firefox 75 and that’s that.
Angus Robertson is Ex-BBC.
Katya Adler replaces him when he left the BBC
You’re not very good at answering questions unless it’s about something trivial like NAFFIs.or safety or something.Stay safe in your blue funk .
Dog Biscuit or anyone else.
So who is your idea for a leader of the SNP, who exactly, please enlighten us?.
Do you have a route to independence?Please tell us what it is,the courts,UDI,other means?
Seems Craig is busy and didn’t respond yesterday .
I know it’s a big number 3 (questions),but all very important to us indy folks nevertheless.
Now please don’t come back with NS bad or SNP bad because you wouldn’t anyone thinking you were a yoon now, would you?
Sweden
Sweden has far more deaths than Denmark, Norway and Finland, a difference that is not adequately explained by the size of their populations.
British constitutional law and practice lacks coherence and compatibility with international human rights law. Employing it to emancipate Scotland indicates a legal path-dependency that is not helpful to our cause. The nature of this parochialism is grounded in a mode of understanding that is detached from reality, and which supports anti-foundational legal practice (see Brexit and self-ID). Law that is detached from the natural law can not serve justice.
Surely the SNP respects Treaty law?
Path Dependence in the Law:
The Course and Pattern of Legal Change
in a Common Law System
https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1002&context=lepp_papers
now that keza is a top academic at the yooni and that, she must have been doing lots of academicalising, like – writing papers, articles, books?, giving lectures, seminars, attending symposia … I mean the academic world is cut throat, its publish or perish – so : what has she done since she has been in charge? Anyone know, or can find anything. Her No 2 – Carman has a list as long as something long.
important news just in – the John Smith centre offered the job to the wrong person!
https://www.keziadugdale.com/
– this one can tell the future! (whats the odds she has a house full of cats?)
@stuart mackay
– I just use the “good guy. wank” method as demonstrated in chewin the fat.
A pretty bland statement you made there Robbo. RT telling us that scientists have discovered a deadlier strain of covid.So it looks like we’ll be hunkered down over summer.What are the league results on cancer deaths? I wonder if a chap might make money from this. Why not run a book on tomorrow’s results? Is that Tory enough for you?
Does Sweden have as many covid deaths as UK ? Never mind Denmark Norway and Finland.Answer questions. For old folks you’re pretty good at body swerving. And jiving.
Robbo.I don’t give a toss if anyone thinks I’m a Unionist. The First Minister should be prepping our case for independence to the UN.Without that there seems no other way as you know who,is sitting on a pile of mandates from the Scottish people which she seems reluctant to employ. The only way to get the people of Scotland onside is to hold a referendum.Thats not on the cards so the UN. What do we do with a reluctant First Minister? Calling people yoons is deeply childish and unlikely to advance our cause You read correctly I said ‘our cause’.
@ CBB – I’ve now read the text you linked to about Authoritarian Capitalism, Movements and Communication. It’s interesting (once you get past the cement mixer language – it would score very high on the Fog index) in that it summarises theories that were current in the 60s. In a nutshell, bastards rise to positions of power and make life miserable for everybody else.
I like his idea of using humour to take them down a peg. We could do with more of that nowadays. Whatever happened to those satirical shows like Spitting Image? He quotes Charlie Chaplin:
But, to be fair, Twitter is awash with jokes against the clowns in Westminster and Chris Cairns contributes his cartoon skills.
https://tinyurl.com/yccbe7ar
The “precautionary principle” is vital to public-health ethics. That’s why English Torydum rejects it absolutely. Scotland needs to reject Westminster’s cultural prejudice and incompetence, absolutely, and embrace a scientific world view instead. Liberty is vital but you can’t enjoy it if you’re deid.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10807030590919864?scroll=top&needAccess=true
Oh and imagine denigrating the concept of freedom.Some people die for freedom A leader to replace Nicola Sturgeon? These days fucked if I know
Capella
It is a bit academically dense. 🙂
I thought it provided a pretty good description of contemporary Anglo-American politics. The perpetual neo-liberal, populist, revolution against rational liberalism and ethical government. 🙁
Are you seething Dog basket that no one takes you seriously? 🙂
Just heard Jackson Carlaw congratulate the First Minister for all the people who managed to complete the work to open The Louisa Jordan Hospital in three weeks.
This highlights even more the despicable question asked by Lisa Summers of the BBC yesterday to the FM. (Has the £43m spent on the LJ Hospital been a waste of money?)
This must represent an all time low even for the BBC scumbag anti-scottish reporters. Remember the name, Lisa Summers, one of the MSM`s finest reporters!!
Wolfe said at Quebec send in the highlanders no great mischief if they fall and today base the nuclear weapons in Scotland same again eh., no great mischief if they fall ???as for the 2014 ref., 80 percent of Incomers voted no and swung the vote most of them were English up here to take advantage of the things the SNP had given the Scottish people and their votes helped to outvote the true native Scots who voted yes they must not be given a vote on our freedom again it is not their country and they should not nor ever should have been allowed a vote on my country’s freedom remember they were quick enough to bring in EVEL so we have no say in their laws or future sauce for the goose etc.,
@ CBB – yes, I thought he was right to point out that the word “populist” is meaningless because there is no agreed meaning. So people devise their own meanings which makes discussion difficult.
It’s what we used to call “trans derivational search” (see! I can do it too!). Demagogues use such words because, while everyone is figuring out what it means, the rest of their speech slips in under the conscious level and hypnotises the listener into a condition of belief. Listen out for it whenever politicians make a speech. The press conference from Westminster would be a good example.
But then I would quibble with his unqualified use of “nationalism” to mean right wing fascist autoritarianism. Most national liberation movements could be criticised as nationalist when, in fact, they are pursuing a legitimate democratic aim.
Ayeright 4.50
I take Dogbiscuit seriously.
He is correct.
I don’t think he shares my politics Tory Unionist but he’s spot on about people so easily allowing a police state to rule over us.
I am appalled at how folks I know have just rolled over and do every thing that St Nicola tells them to do.
Some of them don’t even leave their houses at all.
I’m all for those rednecks in the US who have taken to the streets in protest.
Shows some balls.
Freedom is such a precious thing.
The state of Hancock in today’s bollocks press conference from No 10. They are now talking with 159 UK suppliers of PPE despite ignoring them for weeks when they offered supplies.
Apparently he tells us the UK will be the first country in the world to have a vaccine developed in Oxford. What an arse.
There comes a time when you have to stop digging and put down the shovel. The hole this government have dug for themselves is already deep enough without promising more that will never be fulfilled.
Anyone believe the UK will be testing 100,000/day in 10 days time? No, me neither.
Benhope@4.52
Don’t worry about Lisa Summers, the usual BBC quality!! expect to see her on a garbage cooking/dancing/playing hide and seek in some jungle, non entity crap.
“I’m a non entity, somebody recognise me” (pleeease)
She might get to switch on the Christmas lights in Fishcross, then again the “city on the bend” wouldn’t stoop to that garbage.
April, suns still out, first tick dug oot the skin, its going to be a long summer.
Pete your preferred goverement is a DISGRACE.
Every one of them should resign, a Tory Unionist?
Nothing wrong with that, but you ought to be embarrassed by those you choose to represent you. Not just you but me, my family and all those old folk in care homes and elsewhere that are dying before their time because of decisions taken by the government YOU voted for.
The most incompetent government in the UK’s history led by a clown.
A clown known to have hidden in a fridge to avoid questioning and is now nowhere to be seen. Are you proud of YOUR government?
Capella 🙂
Pete@5.12
“I’m all for those red necks in the US taking to the streets in protest”
There’s a surprise! tell me with your obvious genius, if Trump and Faridge are great politicians? just to give me an idea of your worthy political insight!!!
Self employed people can’t even apply for government grants before June!
What use is that many of them will be well skint before we get to June, the 2 million applying for Universal Credit will be lucky to see any money before June as well.
That party YOU support are totally useless and showing it daily.
Ayeright I don’t expect to be taken seriously because you have all it seems,bought the Government line on covid . I don’t suppose you feel like answering any of my questions? Far from seething I consider this fun hunting small game like yourself.
Capella
Scottish nationalism = realist nationalism which support patriotism.
British nationalism = constructivist nationalism which supports cultural oppression.
Theories of Nationalism: A Brief Comparison of Realist and Constructivist Ideas of the Nation
http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/1460/theories-of-nationalism-a-brief-comparison-of-realist-and-constructivist-ideas-of-the-nation
P.S. realist nationalism can also support cultural oppression. Life is never straight-forward.
So Sir Simon McDonald of the FCO, has admitted that the UK government didn’t accidently miss the PPE help from the EU. Instead the UK government took a political choice not to take PPE from the EU, and in the process lives must surely have been lost due to that disastrous decision.
In the wake of this disturbing information English Health Secretary Matt Hancock, has just announced that he’ll now throw £20 million pounds into funding an Oxford groups trials on a vaccine for Covid-19. Add to this that some media stations are now reporting that deaths from the virus in England and Wales could be 42% higher than first thought.
Johnson, who is still lounging at Checkers, had this revealed about him, this week, that he twiddled his thumbs for five weeks, missing umpteen COBRA meetings in the process, this ineptitude has now come home to roost and manifested itself in the form of the deaths of those who succumbed to Covid-19.
So Ayeright not embarrassed by First Minister?
Pete at 5.12 “Freedom is such a precious thing”. Spot on! That’s why we want it – and we’ll get it!
The N. Ireland figures a bit late:
BBC website figures:
Scotland……..today…..70…….Total….985
Wales………..today…..25…….Total….609
N. Ireland……today…..09…….Total….216
England………today….778…….Total..15607
————————————————
UK…………..today….823…….Total..17332
Hancock says they got “the exponential nature of this curve under control” and that the “BATTLE PLAN” is working.
What a wanker!
This government found guilty of over promising and under delivering.
Bill 11.03
Again, you wrote “A common fault with English people is that they assume without any reserve that they “know” and therefoe if they are superior and entitled the others (us and many others) can’t know”
I have no wish to pick on you Bill, I am sure you are very nice man that, for reasons unknown, when in the “wings” environment, you write/speak in ways that you might not elsewhere.
To write “a common fault with english people” leaves little room for manouvre in these times Bill. To test whether you have “strayed” you might like to replace the word “English” with say “pakistanis” or “muslims” and see how you think it reads then.
Sensibledave another proud Tory. Are you proud so far Davie boy?
“a common fault with english people”
Is simply describing the biosocial construction of social identities. If a culture is allowed to get ‘up-itself’, like contemporary English/British culture, the social psychology of that culture will become narcissistic and chauvinistic (see Brexit). Simples. 🙂
Jackson Carlow given political platform to attack Scottish Government by Stv without any chance to respond.
The BBC getting in a knot trying not to show the Disastrous
Corona death figures for England.
To help cover it they claim Scotland had more Care Home Deaths
and great news that hospital deaths are slightly lower.
I’m now waiting on the Scottish news which again is Scotland oil bad
It runs out here alone, oil price down, rusty oil rig removal massive cost.
Think about leaving the union and you will probably die? Lol
Pathetic BBC.
According to Govt figures on the BBC :
In the week ending 10th April there were 8000 more deaths than in the corresponding week the previous year – a 43% increase.
But 2/3rds of them were NOT attributable to covid19.
Which must mean that 1/3rd (2667) ARE
That would be an average daily death toll (hospital + care home + community) of 381 from covid, 1500 from the usual causes and 762 to be blamed on the…sunshine, moonlight, good times or boogie?
Not sure if they were supposed to be England or UK – But the 2/3rds bit seemed more like a bulletin from the Oceanian Ministry of Truth.
Yip as some have already said the ultra unionist STV news leads with Scottish care home deaths, followed by Jackie Baillie, Anas Sarwar, and Jackson Carlaw, all having a go at the Scottish government, whose handling of the virus is head and shoulders above Englands. But you wouldn’t think so watching the unionist news. Just for good measure the unionist news channel relished reporting that oil is now worth less than dog shit.
The Revs appeal got a mention as well, as the unionist STV news deftly squeezed in the banner of the Daily Record too boot.
Only in Scotland could this happen.
Bill
I take it you’ll be returning to Scotland once it’s achieved?
@ robbo 3.57pm so robbo ANYONE who disagrees that NS is our saviour and the messiah is now to be labelled a yoonionist or a troll , ah I remember the good old days on WOS where dissent of our dear leader was frowned upon and caused a pile on , and when the owner of THIS site was exposing NS’s vacuous speeches at odds with her actions he was vociferously rounded upon , being accused of all sorts of heresy and duplicity to the extent that NS acolytes were calling him 77th brigade
Neither you or anyone else has the ability to force people to agree that NS is the saviour of independence and going by past performances I hae ma doots , you are entitled to worship at the feet of NS as is ayeright or anyone else but you or ayeright do not own independence , and there are so many bloggers and posters on twatter who forcefully disagree with your adulation
Pete – i’m only here for family reasons and I will certainly be back as soon as I can.
Dan 11:17 am
You wrote “Sensibledave identifies as a democrat who is an Englishman who lives in England, he is to an extent either oppressed, or an oppressor.”
… complete rubbish!
Then “Democracy as a concept should be fluid so that it can enable people to choose the direction they want to travel in as we progress forward through the passage of time.”
… indeed. But that doesnt mean that we have a GE or Referendum on the same subject every Friday.
Then … “He asked “Why do you think I might be less proud of my country, my fellow citizens, my government…than you?“.
I’ll proffer that his question is not valid as a straightforward equal comparison as his country and his fellow English citizens do not have their own true Government representing them.
Like us, they have a fudge of a setup in the form of the UK Parliament. BLAH BLAH BLAH …
… And I’ll profer you are an arrogant numptie. You may know lots about lots of things, but I suggest you cannot know what it is to be English. You can project, you can guess, you can make s**t up. But you will not know … unless you are English.
Take my word for it. English folk are as proud of their country as you are of yours. Maybe it is why you and some others feel it is oK to talk in dergatory terms about the English, England and our Government … ie because you do not see that the English can be proud to be English.
Then you wrote “The reason his question is not comparative is because England’s larger population share of the UK facilitates them having proportionally more democratic representation in the UK Parliament by a ratio of approximately 9 to 1 over the other nations in the UK. This in effect means that the UK gets what England wants.
… so that will be why we were in Brexit no mans land for 2 years will it??
So why does this democrat of an Englishman Dave feel the need to commit so much time to a Scottish Indy site when Scotland has barely a tenth of the democratic power to influence our own and England’s trajectory, whilst at the same time England has nearly ten times the advantage over Scotland, thus is able to dominate and deny Scotland a reciprocal level of democratic influence that his country has.
Whilst Scotland is part of the Union then you have the same power with your vote as I do. Your MP has exactly the same power as mine.
This is because that is what Scots voted for.
As I may have mentioned before, every voter has the same power. What cannot happen, is that a group of voters have some power of veto over everyone else. The constituency that I live in voted to Remain in the EU. We are part of the UK, we got outvoted. Just like you did.
At this point, it is now customary for me to mention that they only reason that Scotland is not Independent is because they told Westminster they didn’t want to be. As I said to Bill, I do not see any evidence of much change either. Why is that Dan?
Bill
What question of Effy’s did you want me to help you with?
It is only some of the oil that is currently in STORAGE that is worthless (see W. Texas?). This is because production didn’t respond to suppressed demand due to covid. Oil is still an essential commodity and Scotland is literally floating on an ocean of it.
@twathater
You’re a twat.
Col.Blimp IV 6:26 pm
You wrote “That would be an average daily death toll (hospital + care home + community) of 381 from covid, 1500 from the usual causes and 762 to be blamed on the…sunshine, moonlight, good times or boogie? Not sure if they were supposed to be England or UK – But the 2/3rds bit seemed more like a bulletin from the Oceanian Ministry of Truth.”
OK Colnel, pretend you are in Charge. Pretend you are King.
A terminally ill patient in a hospice with heart failure and respitory disease, and who has only a few days to live, then also tests positive for CV19 and sadly dies. Are you going to include them in the CV19 deaths figures or not?
IT is those decisions that make deaths outside of hospital so difficult to detail.
The data is not being hidden. The total death rates are being recordes. In the future, we will have the data to look back and calculate the additional deaths, over the annual norms. We will then know. Until then we must do the best we can.
Sensitivedave – I see you must have gone back and reread my first post today – which by the way was not addressed to you but to Effijy. Have you replied to him yet? You are right I am a very nice man. I am also kind and caring person who likes to like everyone. I find English people, who assume they are superior and entitled, funny. I don’t need room for maneouvre at all nor have I strayed. I speak as I find whether here or in any other environment. Possibly you are deflecting because you cannot accept that someone may find others behaviour “funny”. I have only ever been physically threatened twice in my life. Both by English men who asked my opinion on Scottish independence. Clearly my reply did not suit them. So first they shouted. When asked to moderate their language in front of women they got worse. e Then they threatened . Now they are not “funny”. Had they been Scots i’d have been just as ashamed of them. So I say to you again don’t accuse me of anti-Englishness. I’m anti un democratic bullying that is for sure. Don’t misconstrue that either. I think you should slow down. Learn to understand and stop deflecting
@Sensibledave
We have those figures NOW. Deaths in Scotland plus England & wales are 80% above the “annual norms”. We don’t need to wit until sometime in the future.
Your government have failed the British people. We are led by Donkeys.
ron unz has a long one – 7000+ words – about the virus and all its speculations; actually worth reading – on the frontpage of his own “review” website, see for yourself.
– just finished it; fascinating read, carefully argued while avoiding his own areas of ignorance, but the implications disturbing. He goes into detail about the origins of the various theories and the timeline of events. Coincidence and apparent prior knowledge is the usual stink of shenanigans – and there is plenty here to consider.
I had discounted any deliberate malice in this as – cui bono? I mean, the likelihood is anyone who released a weapon would be hit themselves, but even there, there is a payoff to someone – the economy was in the crapper, now it gets a bailout; all the little people get pervasive mass surveillance – and whoever comes up with a vaccine will make massive profits.
Ayeright 6:57 pm
You wrote “We have those figures NOW. Deaths in Scotland plus England & wales are 80% above the “annual norms”. We don’t need to wit until sometime in the future. Your government have failed the British people. We are led by Donkeys.
Ayeright … I’ll go slowly, so even someone as thick as you may be able to understand.
In addition, we shall be talking about death and deaths. BY its very nature it is a distressing, difficult and sensitive issue. So for once, dummy, try and think before you write your next comment.
In very rough terms, around 120,000 people die in the UK each quarter. Some of them are in accidents. The vast majority are not. Those people die due to “ill health” (Cardio, respatory, cancer, etc. In any month, an average of around 35,000 people are close to death. In any quarter, over 100,000 people are in their last 3 months.
Have you got that?
If a disproportionate amout of those 100,000 people that were going to die in the next 3 months contract CV19 in month 1 and die in month 1, then we would see a spike in the year on year figures for a particular week. However, and this is the hard bit Ayeright, we may (or may not) see less of a spike when measured over a 6 month period.
We will have to wait.
Oh, and by the way, I think my government is your government too. I should add, that is not because of anything I did. Its because Scottish voters wanted my government as your government.
Ayeright 6.57
‘We are led by donkeys’
I presume you are referring to Nicola and the SG who are responsible for health in Scotland.
Anyway, thats my shift done for today.
M is holding a zoom conference where she scores us on how we did today. Is anyone happy to give me a reference?
Sensibledave
I’ll rate your performance if you tell whether you support the principle universal human rights. Deal?
Plato and Aristotle on Tyranny and the Rule of Law
https://www.civicsrenewalnetwork.org/resources/plato-and-aristotle-tyranny-and-rule-law/
Hmm
Oh well never mind. They were such simple questions and body swerved by Dog and now twathater.
So you don’t like NS , so what. Where do i say anywhere that i worship the ground she walks on?She may have made some mistakes like all politicians do but for sure she’s best politician for countries around and is unshakeable even from yoon press.
For indy supporters to deride her for not securing a s30 is quite frankly ridiculous. WHAT other means do you suggest? Please tell us I’m all for a plan, what is it- courts,UDI, other ?
Always remember the 7 P’s !
PS Twater and NO i don’t think anyone who thinks NS isn’t the messiah is yoon or troll,but she’s the leader of SNP ,the biggest indy party- let me ,all of us know when you have named replacement auld boy!
Confused
Ron Unz.
Now I wonder why you didn’t link to that anti-semitic, holocaust denying white supremacist supporter.
Look at the two Tory arseholes attempt to defend the incompetence of their Tory government. Not my government as I never voted for them and neither did the majority of voters in Scotland.
Scotland has about half the death rate due to Cv-19 than England and that’s including deaths outwith hospitals. The Scottish government is not afraid to admit the truth to the public, unlike the Westminster government who lie through their teeth at every press conference and try to hide the true figures.
Here are the facts for England for week ending 10th April from the Office for National Statistics who record the figures for death in England & Wales.
https://archive.vn/tspiY
I’m not kidding, you two defending this shower of shite should hang your head in shame. Your comments are embarrassing. Typical right wing greedy Tories that care nothing for others as long as you’re alright.
robbo
That’s the view of British constitutionalism. We don’t need no stinking
badgesS30. Westminster has exceed its’ legal authority in suggesting we do. Treaty law is above national law. Westminster considers English law imitable to international law. British constitutional practice is designed to enslave, not liberate.Haha, SDave’s pure triggered n’ ragin’ the nicht, and probably on his way to needing a second keyboard with that shitly formatted spiel.
Pity he cannae make better use of his time and start campaigning in England so they can have their own 100% true English Parliament, and not have to put up with a mere 90% effective democratic control of the UK shamocracy because of the 10% dilution by us twats from Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
WTF, I thought we were bettertogether.
And I couldn’t possibly know what it means to be English, well apart from most of my family being from some place called… er…England!
If I as a Scot am inferior then Pete’s gonna be fucked off now too because with his British and Scottish status he can’t possibly be properly aligned with Dave’s England, unless of course he is a meek subservient forelock tugger to his English masters.
How many GE’s has SD’s preferred Party caused rather than adhere to the 5 year fixed term Parliament Act?
Material change in circumstances and EU membership anyone?.
Scotland aka land of Mandates.
Even Ruth Davidson is more of a democrat than Dave.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-simple-ruth/
Ayeright…
im in the DB5 on autopilot.
You wrote “… unlike the Westminster government who lie through their teeth at every press conference and try to hide the true figures.
Here are the facts for England for week ending 10th April from the Office for National Statistics who record the figures for death in England & Wales.”
I have a question for you. Do you see any issues in the contradiction between your first sentence …. and the second?
Wow!
Sensibledave says:@ 6:54
“The data is not being hidden. The total death rates are being recorded”
You can see from the 2and table that in each of the days between 4th and 10th of April between 500 and 700 Hospital deaths attributed to covid19 were recorded.
(with the rider saying they would be revised upwards in the next few days because the figures are for actual date of death as opposed to date of registration, which can lag by a week or more)
One does not need to be a maths whizz to deduce that the total is greatly in excess of 2667, even before the adjustment, never mind after non-hospital deaths are included.(which they would have to be because what we are comparing is TOTAL DEATHS from all causes in a given week against the same week in previous years).
UNCORRECTED ERROR — DELIBERATE or UNINTENTIONAL?
Either way, If I were King … heads would roll!
http://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-death-data-in-england-update-12th-april/
@Sensibledave
Arsehole Wow!
Robbo. I didn’t mention section 30 and I answered your questions which you skated over .Your a bam.
Ayeright
Though there is no evidence of an arsehole gene, our political dispositions are grounded in our bio-neurological architecture (i.e. our brains), and so reflects the biosocial nature of our identities. This is why a bio-neurological appreciation of the law is vital to fighting prejudice and inequality. 😉
A Cultural Neuroscience Approach to the Biosocial
Nature of the Human Brain
juser.fz-juelich.de/record/129060/files/FZJ-129060.pdf
Sensible Dave don’t touch the red button
Hi Sensibledave at 6:44 pm.
You typed,
“English folk are as proud of their country as you are of yours. Maybe it is why you and some others feel it is oK to talk in dergatory terms about the English, England and our Government … ie because you do not see that the English can be proud to be English.”
I’m trawling my memory here but bear with me.
In 1983, I had an excellent holiday at Pentewan Sands, down the road from St Austell, in Cornwall.
One evening, we spent a rather enjoyable evening in the Sun Hotel, just outside St Austell, with a couple from Newcastle.
Their complaint was the same as the Cornish people we engaged; everything goes to London and the south-east, then the dregs are distributed, fanning out from London so the north-east and Cornwall lag well behind the rest of England, in terms of the “bounty” that is “created” by London.
In 2007, I had cause to spend a few days in Bexhill on Sea (East Sussex) with my son. Due to circumstances, we found ourselves spending the night with a rather fine woman and her family, due to our accommodation being non-existent, which we found out at the Manchester Megabus stop on the way down.
Onnyhoo, in conversation with the lady, it became apparent that the attitude toward “London” was the same on the south coast, as I had found in Cornwall, years before. The complaint there was about the poor provision of Freeview.
On the Friday, in Bexhill, her sons and pals were heading off to an England footie match. They were wearing St George cross t-shirts and had English flags. TBH, I felt uneasy for a few seconds, until I realised that there were no union jacks.
They were demonstrating support for their nation, the same way that we do with saltires, on our marches.
The time has come for the independence of the 3 nations of Great Britain and the reunification of Ireland.
The 3 of us should be allowed to stand proud as independent nations. Screw the “British” establishment…
Hi Pete.
Are you gonna address your homophobic comment from yesterday?
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-greater-good/comment-page-2/#comment-2526356
I thought you were better than that mike – information taken direct from wikipedia; I have linked to unz review before – articles by hudson, petras, whitney for example, but its first article on the frontpage and there’s always someone complaining about not using archive.
– anyway, its a good article, a lot to process in it.
unz is jewish BTW.
cirsium says:
20 April, 2020 at 10:52 am
@james, 9.03, @Socrates MacSporran, 9.22, Ian Foulds 10.00
Thank you for your input.
OT Does anybody ken who nicked aw the clouds?
#RIPAprilShowers
Conspiracy theory… The rain on ma raspberry canes fell mainly from the planes…
Time to end the lockdown now nicola, before the people start doing it for you. I have already noticed a big increase in the number people out on the streets and cars on the road. The hosiptals are so empty here in Glasgow that the doctors are actually concerned about it, this is hardly the spanish flu come again.
@bipod
“this is hardly the spanish flu come again.”
That’s the whole point of the lockdown you halfwit, to prevent it from becoming the Spanish flu once again.
Bdtt
Hi Brian
Actually, I’m off duty, but for you, I’ll make an exception.
Anyway, I can’t be bothered researching in great detail but quite a number of those you listed were no longer in either of the parliaments.
Yes, all parties have their share as is correct but the SNP, I read, have a much bigger share than their numbers warrant.
No doubt you will be back with proof that I am wrong but I don’t have time to do any further research as I’m going on a new assignment.
All the best.
bipod
At last, another sensible person to join dogbiscuit.
bipod
Interestingly, I noticed that Nicola had her economics guru with her on the podium today.
Our economy is tanking and the oil situation is making a bad situation even worse.
The people on here just don’t get it.
@Ayeright
Sorry, but there is no evidence that this lockdown has had any effect on the rate of infections at all. Other countries which have taken lighter measures have had a lower rate of infections and a lower death rate than the UK.
@Capella
Kezia Dugdale has always been a wee chancer, a shameless self promoter. I’d heard about her when she was still Sheila Gilmore’s election agent in Edinburgh East. Promoted and rewarded way beyond her abilities.
Luck decides a lot of things in life, but let’s hope hers is about to run out.
When dealing with the unknown, it is rational to be cautious. Lack of caution suggests poor judgement grounded in ego rather than science.
FUTURE BRIEF:
The precautionary principle: decision-making under uncertainty
September 2017
Issue 18
https://ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/precautionary_principle_decision_making_under_uncertainty_FB18_en.pdf
Hi Pete.
You typed,
“Actually, I’m off duty, but for you, I’ll make an exception.
Anyway, I can’t be bothered researching in great detail but quite a number of those you listed were no longer in either of the parliaments.”
No sorry, that was an up to date list, from 2000 onwards, to the 2019 election.
You BELIEVE that the LGBT community are not in “your” party but facts are cheils[sp] that winna ding.
Your party is “riddled” with LGBT members. You just have to accept it, otherwise, you are a prime sufferer of ‘cognitive dissonance’.
Must go have a look at the shooting stars in the east north eastern sky.
It will be such a relief instead of reading desperate unionist having breakdowns finding ways of telling us indy is dead.
Independence is inevitable!
Ayeright what is it with you?Name calling instead of an argument I might as well join in ya roaster.
Brian Doonthetoon
We’ve met a few times now and I think I have some idea of your circumstances and outlook. That’s why I’m confident you don’t judge folk on their sexuality. So using “riddled” in reference to LGBT membership of political parties, was perhaps not the word you were looking for. Perhaps “well represented” instead? 😉
If anyone chooses to ignore the near doubling of average weekly death rates and dismiss it as no big deal then they are fools.
Simple as that.
So many psychologists on here.
We can probably belive the death rate figures from the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain ect.
I’m talking of the official figures as recorded on death certificates and not figures given every day from No 10 as “death in hospitals” which are totally useless.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that I can see for not collecting all these figures on a daily basis. Every death will be witnessed by a doctor especially in care homes so why isn’t there a central registry to record these deaths that just need the doctor to phone in?
Maybe because they are still trying to hide the fact that the UK has now had more deaths than any other country in Europe might be a good reason.
Never trust a Tory.
Dog biscuit says:
21 April, 2020 at 8:01 pm
Robbo. I didn’t mention section 30 and I answered your questions which you skated over .Your a bam.
——————-
You did not.No plan,no alternative route, no alternative leader,just dribble.
Well section 30 is the route that AS agreed and accepted as both governments agreed to honour result.Now whether Brit nats accepted it if it were Yes is another matter ,but they got more votes, foul or not and didn’t need to answer that.
UN, aye ok rolls eyes for another century.
Unless you have another plan,then s30 is only option whereby the yoons and us would vote. Like it or not, you have no troops to even con-tinplate a UDI and wouldn’t last an hour. Best you sharpen your pitch fork.Christ half the country are not on board. This ain’t the 1200′-1300’s.
I trust NS and Mike Russell have a plan but some big bug got in way.
What is Craig Murray ,the Rev and AS, Johanna going to do? I’m sitting waiting. If it’s good plan then i’m all in. Until i see it ‘gemes a boogey’
I NEED A PLAN – a fecking good wan!
Oh and CBB with respect,take that to court, another decade wasted.
@Famous15
Just back in from watering veg garden and that Venus planet is shining bricht again to the North West or West North West.
The first tattie and runner bean leaves are breaking through the soil surface today. Result!
Had about a hunner spare seed tatties so have distributed them round my neighbours and the local community farm. Did some swaps for other types and planted them in containers so now growing over 50 plants and 7 varieties.
It’ll be free chips at mine if we ever get out of lockdown…
There is nothing cautious about shutting down an entire economy for an indefinite period of time.
@Ayeright
How much of that weekly death rate increase is actually due to the corona virus though? I’ve seen statistics that a large part of that is actaully due to people not seeking medical treatment in a hospital when they need it because of the mass hysteria being generated by the media.
Cognitive dissonance doesn’t quite describe the true nature of the resident UKers. At least whilst they are polluting this site , wether it be for personal pleasure or financial gain , they are not pursuing other deviant activities.
Re Pete @ 8.54
The one thing we get is you and why you post your nonsensical bile on this site.
@bipod
Seen some statistics have you? Show me and provide a link.
robbo
How do you expect Scotland to achieve justice through British constitutional practice? The Tories have just re-written the constitution in a way that obliterates Scottish cultural knowledge. That’s nazi legal practice. Please wake up to the fact that Brexitania is not a social democracy, and respect the fabric of universal human rights law. It is there for a purpose, but will not persist if it is disrespected and ignored.
I see lockdown is in full effect in the US…
https://www.flightradar24.com/36.82,-96.99/4
Pete, what happened to all the ‘rent boys’ who use to hang around Westminster?
sensibledave says:
“Why do you think I might be less proud of my country, my fellow citizens, my government … than you? If I wrote that Scots are whining bunch of pissed up free loaders with leaders that consistently fail to deliver on their main priority and have an inferiority complex that is justified. How would you feel about such a characterisation?
I hope that helps.”
Thanks for your thought Dave, but you didn’t address my main questions and that was if you thought Scotland had a fair Independence referendum that was without political interference or financial interference from another country.
My point being, that there is a lot of anger at Westminsters interference in the referendum, that leaves Scots feeling we did not really make a decision in 2014 (your point in the original comment that I was responding to)
I don’t think there’s any hatred towards England on here, except probably apart from one chap (who because of his expressed hatred of England, is accused by most on Wings as being a troll/plant).
As for asking me how I’d feel about the characterization that ‘Scots are a whining bunch of pissed up free-loaders’
To be honest, Dave, if heard that characterization about Scots so many times from Englishmen, that it would go in one ear and out the other and that probably explains why so many of us want to be independent.
@ CBB – I think the idea of nationalism provokes a lot of people into a fit of rage. I’m thinking of the Brian Wilson types who want to characterise the SNP as “narrow nationalists”. They accuse us of hating the English, of wanting to draw borders, of not caring about plumbers in Liverpool etc etc.
We live in a country where our culture, history and civic life is obliterated daily by the all pervading fog of the MSM. If we object, we are dismissed as cybernats (because we have virtually no access to the regular broadcasting channels) by the lackeys of an occupying power.
In fact, Europe and most of the rest of the world is populated by nation states. These developed out of the previous system of dynastic land holdings ruled over by monarchs and princes and prelates. Nation states are an advance on feudal principalities. They are normal. Only colonies don’t have the political powers of a nation state.
A rational discussion about nationalism, civic or ethnic, is long overdue.
I’m not suggesting Scotland gains independence through the courts. I just want the SNP to acknowledge British constitutional practice is incompatible with the principle of universal human rights. Hold an election backed by a campaign that is disinfected from woke-nats, and watch Scotland protect its’ legal identity.
@Ayeright
From a UK context https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52361519 but it wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume a similar trend in Scotland. Deaths from “other causes”, i.e not corona, are up over this time last year as well.
Too bad we don’t have a breakdown in statistics for Scotland, I wonder why they won’t publish.
@ bipod
GRI icu has just reached full capacity tonight.
Capella
British nationalism is a form of methodological nationalism. This is acceptable, so long as constitutional law and practice is guided by the natural law. This condition no longer exists in Brexitania.
A social theory of the nation-state: The political forms of modernity beyond methodological nationalism
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265600445_A_social_theory_of_the_nation-state_The_political_forms_of_modernity_beyond_methodological_nationalism
@bipod
Your more stupid than I thought, here’s a proper link to statistics. Scottish ones at that, now go and read them.
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/vital-events/general-publications/weekly-and-monthly-data-on-births-and-deaths/deaths-involving-coronavirus-covid-19-in-scotland
Can I ask you another couple of questions Dave;
Do you believe England subsidises Scotland?
Do you feel we are always whining?
Do you feel that in general, we tend to be drunk or act badly when drunk, more than the English do?
It would be nice to know why you seem so angry at the temerity of us Scots wanting to be independent.
I posted this in anger in the middle of the night of 20 April. I would not retract a word of it and repeat it here for those who observe more normal hours.
“For a country once so proud of its democratic heritage the UK has descended to a sorry state. The nation has been ground down by the greed of the elite and the lies they propagate to keep the Plebs in the dark. Money controls the press, the broadcasters, and all levels of central and local government. The few voices of truth are silenced by an avalanche of propaganda and are frequently persecuted pour encourager les autres. Now the chickens have come home to roost in the form of Covid19.
The pretence of competent government has been stripped away by the revelations of the state of the public health service and the failure to prepare for, to react to, and to manage the pandemic which has engulfed us. We have a PM who is clearly incapable of fulfilling the job he lied and cheated to obtain and who who studiously distances himself from taking responsibility to lead the nation. His minions are leaderless and are no better than startled rabbits caught in the headlights of a crisis that is totally beyond their ability to deal with. Their only response is to heap lie on lie with the charade of their daily press briefings whilst praying for a miracle. Well, miracles belong in the bible and the last one was probably 2,000 years ago.
It is difficult to see how this ends without further massive loss of life. It is clear that the lack of adequate preparation, government inaction and incompetence, will have added tens of thousands to the ultimate death toll. I had thought that the staggering level of gross negligence and incompetence should result in charges of manslaughter against Johnson and many of his cabinet but now I am not so sure. Manslaughter is defined as killing another person without malice aforethought, or in this case the accidental killing of another as a result of criminal negligence. However, there is the question of the initial policy of acquiring herd immunity within the population by allowing the infection to spread. There is a suspicion at least that this policy still lurks behind much of the delay and inaction of this government and the failure in particular to provide proper support and equipment for care homes. Whether or not this policy still persists, it certainly did initially cause substantial delay to the actions needed to reduce the overall number of deaths which will arise. Johnson and his cabal were fully aware of this and considered it a price worth paying to protect the economy and the wealth of their paymasters. Their actions, or lack of them, must take this beyond accidental killing and therefore manslaughter. They may not have known the identity of those who would die as a result of this policy, but they knew that many thousands of additional deaths would occur. Their actions were deliberate and premeditated. That constitutes murder and Johnson, Hancock, Gove, Raab and the rest should be made to answer for it.”
Blair, Straw and others raised the bar in terms of what you can get away with in the modern world. They directly cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of dusky skinned Arabs, ranking only as collateral damage, but only a few hundred lives of British solders which was presumably acceptable. Now we are dealing with tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths in our own “country” which are the direct result of malfeasance in public office. Where is justice? In any decent society these evil incompetents would be brought before a court to answer for their crimes. Oh wait a moment – this is not a decent society, this is the UK!
@dakk
Care to share where you got that information about GRI.
Sorry for this OT post.
But if Ron Unz is coming up on BTL
He can go down on BTL
Confused 8.20
California Entrepreneur Ron Unz Launches a Series of Rhetorical Attacks on Jews
http://archive.is/HDArJ
Ron Unz comes out as a Holocaust denier, fails even at that.
http://archive.is/VV7w5
And one of his regular contributors.
Kevin MacDonald is the neo-Nazi movement’s favorite academic. A psychology professor at California State University, Long Beach, MacDonald published a trilogy that supposedly “proves” that Jews are genetically driven to destroy Western societies.
http://archive.is/ovsZn
Self-explanatory.
Nothing more to say on this.
@Ayeright
Deaths over this time last year are up, but the question is how much of that increase is actually due to the virus and how much of it is due to the lockdown, which that report give very little detail on.
I would be sceptical of the number of corona virus death rported in cares homes, as Doctors are doing it over the phone or through video link, puting covid on the death certificate is quick an easy.
Elmac
Do you include Nicola in your list of muderers?
I think you need a good nights sleep.
@ Ayeright
From someone working there, but not giving details.
Have no reason to disbelieve it, but can’t verify it personally.
Not sure if it’s really that significant either.
mike cassidy – what is your point?
Pete @ 10.10
Hogwash. What is a “muderer” anyway”
Those suspicious of the UK government’s line on the pandemic.
Here’s another rabbithole to fall down.
Regarding those 128 fake #NHS Staff accounts posting for ‘Herd Mentality’ and support of the Govt that were set up by @DHSCgovuk or their marketing agency
https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1252266724449230848
@ Dan at 9.24: it was like a dust bowl on our plot today where we were digging beds for tatties and onions.
I’m going to pretend I didn’t read about your tatties and runner beans coming through….
We do have a great crop of bittercress for salads and sarnies. Bet you are envious.
Capella says:
21 April, 2020 at 9:44 pm
@ CBB – I think the idea of nationalism provokes a lot of people into a fit of rage. I’m thinking of the Brian Wilson types who want to characterise the SNP as “narrow nationalists”.
Capella; Is that the same Brian Wilson who spittles while he talks by any chance? The living embodiment of a “lickspittle” if ever there was one…an odious man.
CameronB Brodie says:
21 April, 2020 at 9:32 pm
robbo
No idea CBB. I leave that stuff to lawyers like 90% + of the people do. They get paid big bucks those folks to decipher that. To most of the people it’s mubble jumble.
Sorry peeps
Over on https://munguin.wordpress.com/ Sky Mews are apparently saying that
“sources say the big PPE delivery from Turkey that was promised on Saturday wasn’t actually ordered until Sunday!”
That would be the PPE shipment that an RAF plane was sent to fetch on Monday and which apparently still sits on the tarmac at Istanbul airport. This is not just sheer incompetence but lie upon lie. No shame and no accountability. How long before this whole affair erupts?
My comment at 10.54. Sky News can be a bit catty at times but Mews should read News!
Back in after an hour’s star gazing, saw 2 shooting stars and what I presume were about a dozen satellites moving across the sky in various directions.
@Sarah
You should have seen the huge pile of fresh coriander we put on the compost heap the other day. Visualise a tonne bag filled with hundreds of plants…
The farm grew a polytunnel dreel of it for restaurants but of course they ain’t open. I’ve been eating fistfuls of the stuff on my soups and curries for weeks. Grabbed a carrier bag full when it got pulled up and have been drying it out. If the cops rock up I’ll probably get busted as it looks like I’m dealing green! lol
robbo
I wouldn’t expect you to come up with a solution, that’s the job of the SNP’s legal advisers. From my perspective, that appears to be HMG, as they clearly lack respect for natural law and biology. That’s an anti-foundational legal position that is pretty much identical to contemporary British constitutionalism.
Was out skywatching too.
Seen 2 Starlinks and a Cosmos sat.
No shooting stars though.
Beetlejuice was out in the west earlier.
Maybe I caught you all on a bad night but vegetables and star gazing, much as both are admirable in a normal context, seem a little underwhelming at the moment. No offence intended – only stimulation.
@ Dan: I see your coriander and raise my self-sown asparagus kale… though not in the same quantity! You must be so healthy now – vitamins C and K, iron, protein…
Dinner tonight – own onions, potatoes, carrots, kale, neighbour’s mutton [grazed on our grass].
My sister-in-law puts surplus produce at her gate for anyone to take. She is in the middle of a village so easily accessed. Is your community farm gate on a thoroughfare? Too late for the coriander, of course.
@ Elmac: yeah, we could go to official Off-topic. But you have to agree that planets and food are an improvement on a number of other comments!
Elmac
OK, I’ll bite. 😉
https://academic.oup.com/ejil/article-pdf/22/2/315/18272561/chr031.pdf
@Elmac
After a month of lockdown looking at stars and veg growing are the new Class A adrenaline rush inducing shiz.
I mean coke and heroin might give some folk a buzz but that shit’s just whack after you have experienced the euphoria of waking up to see your tomato seedlings have grown 2mm taller while you dozed.
It’s that or morbidly guessing what the scores on the coffin doors are through the opaque filtered lens of nation state embarrassment or politically motivated statistical finessing.
Sarah @ 11.28
Totally agree. We need some diversion from this dire world. Please do not go off topic.
@ James – Brian Wilson – the very one. Completely deranged. But he is a British Nationalist and so must reject any “foreign” nations.
CameronB Brodie
Thanks for biting Cameron.
Must admit to being a bit bemused. Does the article suggest that basic laws need not apply to Sovereigns of States (by this I assume you would include senior government officials). Surely International Law would preclude that. Otherwise why does the International Criminal Court Exist?
Elmac
It basically suggests we are all agents of international law, so we can’t be separated from international law if the rule-of-law is to apply universally and impartially. Contemporary British constitutional practice separates those living in Scotland from international law. So I’d suggest an effect legal strategy should not ignore this fact.
Robbo.you make a lot immature assumptions. How long are you prepared to wait for a section 30?No one but you speaks of UDI. And how do you know what assets I’ve got? Ayeright are you one of those polished little SNP knobends that so polute the party these days? Sandy.Sandy if you’re looking for rent boys I can maybe help you out there.
Dan @ 11.34
Sorry Dan but there has never been a more a more important time to hold our overlords to account in the hope that by doing so the death toll will be reduced.
That said I share your buzz for tomatoes. Spent a few years in East Africa where everything grew at a huge rate and I cultivated some veg. I had one tomato in particular on a strong vine which was going off the scale – it was enormous, big enough to feed an army, but one night, after work it was gone. No apparent reason and no opportunity to record its dimensions or to photograph it for posterity. It was in essence the one that got away! On reflection when they get as big as that they tend to taste crap. This could be an analogy for Boris but I assure I did not set out to make my lamented tomato political. For a start it was red and not blue!
As I said earlier, no offence intended. I enjoy your posts. Please do not go off topic.
Cappela & James
The very mention of Brian Wilson’s name provokes a lot of people into a fit of rage.
I won’t thank you for reminding me that he is still alive.
CameronB Brodie @ 11.55pm
Can we cut to the chase Cameron. Are you saying that Johnson, Hancock, Gove, Raab etc are subject to the same laws as the rest of us or are somehow able to hide behind diplomatic privilege?
@Sarah
I’ll still post here on MT as it is relevant to how things are requiring to be done at this time.
The local farm is doing some special orders for key-workers and vulnerable folk in the area. These orders are being delivered by a few fit volunteers whilst they are doing their daily bike ride exercise.
The farm obviously can’t have lots of folks coming and going at the moment so it is just ticking over on a light scale regarding generating any income to cover the effort and money put in to produce the veg.
Lots of stuff already in the ground and there’s loads more seed trays full of all sorts waiting to get planted out.
They are taking serious precautions as they really don’t need folk getting ill. Every time you use a wheelbarrow or hand tool it must be cleaned before it is put back. They have modified gate and door latches so opening and closing doesn’t require hands touching stuff.
The owner and workers are all around 30 with young families. All are absolutely super people and a pleasure to work and chat with and this can easily be done whilst keep a safe 2m distance.
One worker reckons they have had it after returning on a flight, and passed it on to their household. Another had some kind of rough cold so that household self-isolated for two weeks. Of course none have actually been tested to prove it was covid, but it is certainly around as my nurse neighbours are seeing folk with it and some unfortunately dying because of it at the local hospitals.
Capella – Re Brian ‘odious’ Wilson – yes I thought so. And in the pocket of the nuclear industry if I remember rightly?
Elmac
My recollection of international public law is rusty, but Brexitania is certainly a stranger to the justice of the natural law tradition. English Torydum and its’ associated cult of British nationalism, are simply making the rule-of-law what they want it to mean. Scotland’s justice system appears to be complicit.
Professor Cheryl Saunders: ‘Devolution. Federation. Constitution. From here to where?’
https://www.cpl.law.cam.ac.uk/sir-david-williams-lectures/professor-cheryl-saunders-devolution-federation-constitution-here-where
That’s a video lecture, btw.
@Elmac
Oh, don’t worry, I’m watching, but rather than make conclusions based on massaged covid death stats, and hee haw testing of any significant note, I’ll wait to see how the overall death figures compare month for month against previous years.
I was speaking earlier with one of my neighbours who is a nurse, she is aware of only one nurse who has actually been tested.
CameronB Brodie @ 12.30
I take it you are saying Cameron that the laws which govern you and I do not necessarily extend to UK government officials. In other words they can be excused guilt for actions such as murder, manslaughter, and lesser crimes which the rest of us would be held to account for provided they can claim to have acted on behalf of the state.
Time for a very radical change don’t you think? And time to put some of these corrupt arseholes behind bars.
Elmac
The justice systems in both Scotland and England, are the products of legal opposition to abusive power. This no longer appears to be the case, as contemporary British constitutional practice is detached from the natural law. Unfortunately the SNP and Scotland’s judiciary appear relaxed about this.
Time to dis-empower all those who support anti-foundational legal practice, IMHO.
Full text.
https://www.degruyter.com/view/journals/jso/4/1/article-p29.xml
Dan @ 12.31am
You are absolutely correct. In the absence of any truth from the UK government regarding the breakdown of Covid19 deaths the only way to come up with believable figures is to compare total deaths for a given period with the same period in previous years. That presupposes the current overall death figures have not been nobbled.
The one thing we can be sure of is that the BBC “deaths in hospitals” is only part of the story. The BBC are a puppet for the Tory government. The truth of course is that many more Covid19 victims are dying elsewhere and are deliberately excluded from the English totals for obvious reasons. Only the Scottish and Welsh governments are trying to include deaths elsewhere in their figures, a point which is deliberately ignored by BBC, SKY etc. when they give comparative figures. Despite their massaging of the numbers it is quite clear that, even on their doctored figures, the NHS outside of England is performing much better and the death toll is significantly lower. Any comparison using the real totals is even more stark.
That said there is no comfort in claiming to have an obviously better run and a less corrupt health service in the current climate. What we need to do is shout from the rafters to ensure that our medical staff are supported and have the proper protective equipment to do their job with the minimum of risk possible.
CameronB Brodie @1.01am
Just to be clear Cameron are you saying that the laws which govern you and I do not necessarily extend to UK government officials or not. A simple yes or no would be appreciated.
Elmac
Government that respected the precautionary principle and public-health ethics would take care of that. So not one that is likely to occur in Brexitania.
CameronB Brodie @1.18AM
So that’s a no is it? In other words UK Government officials can commit gross acts of negligence or worse without fear of legal reprisal. In effect Boris and his crew can make decisions that benefit his backers ( and therefore himself) which directly result in the additional deaths of thousands of people and there is no legal recourse? What kind of society is this?
Elmac
Yes. Anyone with a critical training in the law will tell you access to justice is NOT universal.
British constitutional law and practice is blind to international law, as English law considers itself immutable to outside law. Westminster culture appears to has forgotten the purpose of democracy, and the foundations of British constitutionalism. I suggest that’s a product of 40 years of neo-liberal practice in government. Not forgetting the ongoing dominance of right-wing populism, which will have an effect on the legal psychology of legislation and legal practice.
Elmac
I appear to be getting in a muddle. Yes, that’s a No. 😉
Dog biscuit @ 1202 am.
NO BLOODY THANKS. So that is what you get up to when your not spouting shite on here. Morals of a snake.
It is obvious that NHS Scotland, Wales & N. Ireland, up until now, appear to have more control than NHS England with this virus. But please, please have sympathy for those medical personnel involved. They are doing their upmost in the most very trying conditions despite the plethora of untruths spouted daily by their English powers-that-be.
CameronB Brodie @ 1.29
So you are saying that access to internationally accepted norms of justice does not necessarily apply in the UK because the UK does not follow the mores of international law? In effect therefore the law in the UK is whatever the government of the day decides it is and there is no recourse against any of its members unless they are thrown to the wolves by their peers, something that is unlikely to happen in the current situation when they are all in it up to the neck together.
We need a complete review of the legal system to make all members of society subject to the same laws. None of this will happen without independence. We must lift the scales from peoples eyes but, being an old bugger, I despair it will happen in my time. There are too many blind and stupid Scots for that to happen I fear.
Elmac
NAIL ON THE HEAD. There is always a rational basis for hope though, so long as legal reason does not support anti-foundational legal practice (see Brexit and self-ID of sex). 😉
CameronB Brodie @ 2.06am
CameronB Brodie @ 2.06am
Hope is an evocative word. The only hope we have for a decent society is to free ourselves of the parasitical English elite. Too many Scots have a vested interest by having their noses in the trough or are blind to the plight of their nation. As long as we are the target for the continual propaganda, manipulation and the downright lies which emanate from our press and broadcasters, the prospects of being free are limited. We did have a good opportunity to change history before 31 January which was squandered. Whether this was deliberate or through excessive caution I will never forgive the Sturgeon cabal for the missed opportunity.
Enough of that. As Zebedee said – its time for bed. Enjoyed the chat.
Elmac
Sleep well, Scotland’s future is far from being written. 😉
I see former SNP MP Angus Robertson, was on hands and knees yesterday, praising the press in Scotland. The blatantly biased, anti independence, anti SNP press, that serves its English and American owners. You really couldn’t make it up.
But what led to Angus Robertson ,making such pathetic craven statements about the blatantly biased and unrepresemntative press in Scotland. Ah, well to understand that, you need to remember that Angus thought he was going to stroll into Edinburgh as the SNP candidate for Davidson’s old seat, but now he has competition. Joanna Cherry is also hoping to get the seat. I really hope Joanna Cherry gets it. She actually supports independence, unlike many at the top of the SNP.
So, some might conclude, that Angus made his sycophantic comments to curry favour with the media, in the hope he will get better media coverage against Joanna. Somewhat pathetic, really.
It will be interesting to watch how that plays out.
Breeks says:
21 April, 2020 at 1:58 pm
So on the day the BBC comes under fire in the National from Keith Brown for “England-centric” reporting, we have John Nicolson and Stuart MacDonald springing to the defence of Sara Smith on Twitter…
Seriously SNP. Go and have a lie down and get your fkg act together. At least pretend you’re interested in what’s going on.
wow… add to that Angus Robertson now defending the Scottish Press…
Pure coincidence? Coordinated? My, my. It’s almost like there’s a faction of the SNP anticipating troubled headlines in the not too distant future, and sucking up to the media before the big storm breaks…
Robert Louis says:
22 April, 2020 at 7:22 am
…So, some might conclude, that Angus made his sycophantic comments to curry favour with the media, in the hope he will get better media coverage against Joanna. Somewhat pathetic, really.
I don’t think it’s Joanna he’ll be worried about….
Breeks said:
“Pure coincidence? Coordinated? My, my. It’s almost like there’s a faction of the SNP anticipating troubled headlines in the not too distant future, and sucking up to the media before the big storm breaks…”
Hmm, good point!
Joanna Cherry believes/views Holyrood is the key to Independence.
Robert louis + Breeks – I thought Angus Robertson had withdrawn from challenging the Edin Central seat owing to, erm, events.
Tax research is a chilling read this morning.
We could well see 200,000 deaths in the UK, 100 clinical staff a week. The UK no longer has a functioning government and the electorate get the government they deserve.
Sandy.Its amazing what you wish to believe about people on the back of a cheeky coment. You used similar language against one of the other posters.Is it alright for you but no one else?Angus Robertson stinks with his toes attempt to curry favour with the most corrupt despicable media on Earth.The Jocks passing themselves of as journalists. I lack the morals of the snake so you do me too much honour by describing me so. Are you very moral? So many perfect people.I find myself in exalted company The Government,you choose which one,could do with perfect incorruptible types such as yourself.You can have this with your breakfast.
This is the beginning of the end of the Union between four countries, we all have different mind sets, this the 21st Century,Scotland will do its own thing, if the SNP don’t lead the way then the people will do it for them, they got voted in because the people want Independence, after this virus has cleared they’ll have to show their metal.
Wee comment regarding statistics. The media have to be very careful about what they report unless they have hard evidence to hand. Especially with regards to Covid19 deaths outside hospitals. The only valid way to calculate the true deaths will be from death certificates. I’m sure the FOI requests will flood in at some point when things hopefully settle down. But I do agree the stats coming out are questionable to put it mildly.
Patrick Roden 9.55
Q1 .. In some respects yes, in others no
Q2 .. Depends upon who is the “we”
Q3 .. No
Q4 .. Not at all angry with “Scots”. I do feel the need to respond when England, the english, Westminster, etc.. are continually accused of oppressing the jocks, by indy supporters. …. Because the majority of scottish voters chose to remain part of the UK.
Just learned this morning that the EU PPE procurement contract which the UK did not join but was criticised for NOT joining has not yet produced a single piece of equipment for any EU country.
Lots on here were firing on all cylinders about this.
Check the BBC which, as you know, is very pro EU.
Propaganda UK’s TV Channels promoting the PPE
Delivery has finally arrived.
That’s the one that was going to arrive at the nick
Of time before it all runs out in England,
So far they have chosen not to inform the public that it
Picked up only half of what they thought they were getting.
Pierce Morgan tearing apart the English Care Minister on TV.
Helen Whatley? She is like a dithering toff character from a comedy show.
Seriously, she is the saying that the light is on but no one is at home.
She must be related to a Lord or Tory Funder to get a safe seat that requires
You to have the knowledge to pin on a blue rosette.
This Tory government seem only to have skills in corruption
and cover up and their incompetency in matters of life and
Death are endangering millions and killing thousands!
Pete at 0935.Not so! £1.3 billion worth of PPE has been distributed in the EU to the 25 countries participating in the procurement programme. England of course could have been part of that instead of waiting k3 days overdue for half the amount they ordered from Turkey for “political reasons”! I know Sir Simon Macdonald had his mind changed for him but the Cabinet had a meeting on the offer from the EU. Don’t let blind prejudice run away with your sense of logic and justice!
The MSM love to make a drama out of a crisis.
“RAF plane returns from Turkey PPE mission”
Headline sounds like our plucky troops made a dashing raid behind enemy lines.
But in reality…
“An RAF Airbus A400-M plane, believed to be carrying a delayed consignment of personal protective equipment (PPE) for NHS staff, has landed in the UK.”
So I think I’ll have a bash at this journalism and news game.
“Freight plane from Turkey believed to be carrying freight of some sort lands in UK”.
“Hopefully this freight delivery includes the sort of stuff we desperately need and should already have had in stock to protect our Health Service workers.
Past studies, inquiries, and operations on pandemics informed those in elected power that they need to invest and plan for such events as and when they might occur.
However, after blowing shit loads of taxpayers dosh on said studies, inquiries, and operations, those useless bunch of complete and utter bumblefucks in power chose to do nothing of note. Thus leaving us in the actuality of a real pandemic, perilously compromised in our abilities to cope in terms of strategy, infrastructure, equipment, and personnel.”
@Pete
That’s old news Pete.
Hancock said all that in response to a question at the briefing yesterday.
It may be true, but I’ll wait until the EU confirm it.
PS
Meanwhile in Scotland prisoner release is a big problem even before they are released. Auntie says.
Earlier in England’s prison service last week they let out the wrong prisoners and shut the scheme down after about three days
to get their procedures in place.
PPS:
Ricky Leopard this morning on radio shortbread did not fair well basically turned up to be an ‘aunt sally’ before being dusted off and sent back out into the stree wondering what had happened. 🙁
Pete at 0935 – Excuse me that response should have started “Have received the first of” (etc). Honesty is ALWAYS the best policy. Tories still have that to learn which probably explains why the UK is still such a mess!
@Pete:
Oooft!
That never took long.
Bill McLean says:
22 April, 2020 at 9:48 am
Pete at 0935.Not so! £1.3 billion worth of PPE has been distributed in the EU to the 25 countries participating in the procurement
When will the Revs. appeal likely to be completed?
@James F. McIntosh
The judges have retired to consider their verdict.
Rev says a few weeks to judgement day.
Some on here mentioned hydroxychloroquine as a possible defence against the virus.
A preliminary look – stress preliminary – has not revealed anything medically worthwhile.
http://archive.is/uZWOX
Helen Whatley, before she became a Tory MP, worked for consultancy firm McKinsey, specialising in privatising Health Services.
She’s not really cut out for the public service malarkey. The English NHS is precisely the sort of challenge she enjoys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Whately
Robert Louis @ 7.22am
I thought too that Angus Robertson was going to withdraw from the candidate nomination contest. But clearly if he is currying favour with the unionist establishment press he may not now be withdrawing.
With many current MPs standing down at the next election one doesn’t have to look to deep to realise that Angus in seeking the Edinburgh Central nomination is the Sturgeon choice to stop Joanna Cherry.
Edinburgh Central is Cherry’s Home constituency. She is at present the MP for the Westminster constituency area. Cherry would make an ideal MSP for the area.
Like the attempted Alex Salmond stitch up it is not difficult to see the hand of those who would frustrate the push for independence preferring instead the comfortable existence of a devolved assembly.
The current SNP leadership is a closely linked group stretching into special very trusted aides. The alphabet women. Lesley Evans, with even Angus Robertson’s wife an ex special advisor to the Bute House. Truly, a linked group, with one has to suspect, linked agendas.
But the members of the local Edinburgh Constituency will decide who will receive the nomination and they will I suspect choose wisely. This Coronavirus crisis, in all its twists, turns and outcomes will be a hugely influencing factor on how we all move forward.
Already there is huge anger at the part Boris Johnson and his government played in failing to deal with the emerging emergency. But that anger will I believe transfer also to the First Minister and her government who marched in lockstep with Boris Johnson and his chums. Not only lockstep, she publicly praised them only a month ago in a Parliament.
Change is coming. Electorally the demand for independence is coming and Nicola Sturgeon will not stop it. Quite the reverse, it will stop her.
Patrick Rooden 9.44
Was the indyref fair? Yes
Did people from outside Scotland express their views on what Scotland should do. Yes.
Given that the issue was about being governed by Westminster or not, some people, institutions, etc, outside Scotland, in the rest of the UK, gave their views. It was then up to Scots to decide. Either you believe in an open democracy and free speech, or you dont.
The “anger” that you relate to is pretty much limited to those Scots that wanted Indy and were outvoted.
You wrote: “! don’t think there’s any hatred towards England on here, except probably apart from one chap (who because of his expressed hatred of England, is accused by most on Wings as being a troll/plant).”
OK, when I have got 30 mins, I will produce the evidence you miss.
Jings!
Big Auntie BBC skewering Gov about ‘complicated’ procurement system for UK suppliers who have stocks of PPE and have had no response from the Gov since March 2020 to the present date.
MP says a better system has to be put in place. (bit late now)
Supplier says he has 1,000,000 masks and other things on the shelf.
Auntie sighs and we move onto another thing.
I was thinking about the advice that medical practitioners should reuse disposable gowns and gloves and came up with a great thought for those who suggested that.
Why don’t these bright sparks not re-use their toilet paper.
That would certainly save having to scour round the world trying to get supplies. Yes that’s it, re-usable disposable gowns, gloves and toilet paper.
Just a quick thought and then off for my permitted excercise walk and a wee bit of “essential” shopping – red liquid in glass bottles. From the start of this crisis I have tried to be fair to the UK Government who have been stuck with this awful coronavirus. I remember saying to my wife at the start of it “we live on an island – this should be to our advantage”. Has it been? No! They are still allowing planes to decamp hundreds of people at a time without checks. Have they no common sense at all? The lies and spin that goes round every day now will cost them. Not pleased with Nicola either. Not a participant in the get Nicola campaign but believe she should have shut our borders as soon as this virus landed on this island. Cheers
I like curry.
Mike Cassidy @ 10:13
Check this out.
https://www.drugs.com/hydroxychloroquine.html
The side effects are not inconsiderable. Definitely not for the physically frail or elderly the groups most likely to be prone to infection.
Immune system health is the only way to avoid the serious symptoms of disease.
That ought to be the priority. Smoking, drugs, alcohol, stress, obesity, atmospheric pollution all deplete the ability to effectively deal with pathogenic viral infections. The modern world ‘lifestyle’ is a major contributory factor in the spread of this disease.
The Financial Times has analysed the data from the ONS on the number of deaths in the UK in recent weeks and concluded that 41,000 deaths in the UK can be attributed to Covid-19.
“The FT has broken down its analysis for England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, as they report weekly deaths separately. There were almost 38,000 deaths to date linked to Covid-19 in England and Wales. In Scotland this figure is a little under 3,000 and just below 500 in Northern Ireland.”
Nothing to see here.
https://archive.vn/OTMHB
brian 8.15pm
You wrote “On the Friday, in Bexhill, her sons and pals were heading off to an England footie match. They were wearing St George cross t-shirts and had English flags. TBH, I felt uneasy for a few seconds, until I realised that there were no union jacks.
They were demonstrating support for their nation, the same way that we do with saltires, on our marches….”
Although earlier in your comments, you managed to confuse unhappiness in the government with a lack of being proud to be English, you did at least write the paragraphs above.
You do need to ask yourself, as others on here should too, why you would be surprised at English folk proudly displaying their flag? What skewed view of the English are you carrying around with you?
@ Bill McLean – does Nicola Sturgeon have the power to close borders? Or is that a reserved matter?
Sensibledave.
There is little evidence that rabbits and grey squirrels are vectors for Covid19, but I am keeping an open mind.
I vow to you my country that this is true and fair.
It isn’t Boris Johnson and his britnat crew who are standing in the way of our nation’s independence. It’s Sturgeon and her britnat appeasing crew who are in the way.
A whistleblower says that covid-19 deaths are left off death certificates in care homes and in the community in England.
https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1249787270292480000?s=20
Read the whole thread for some very problematic evidence on what is going on in England on the advice of PHE.
No test, no record of covid-19 on the death certificate.
The anti-Scottish media and its so-called journalists are scum. Boycott the lot of them.
I have listed the following Westminster’s failures. Have I missed any??
Sensibledave – If i have missed any of your masters failing feel free to add.
They required PPE suppliers not to send supplies to Scotland, Wales or Ireland
The declined to join the EU procurement network
They did not scale up existing suppliers of ventilators. Instead they gave our massive contracts to tory donors to make them.
They openly support firms that are registered in tax havens that do not pay tax in the UK.
They do not count death is care homes and focus news headlines
on the death rates in other countries.
They delayed the lock down unlike other countries in the same position as they pursued herd immunity.
They cover their tracks by invoking the spirit of Dunkirk, Vera Lynn and WW2. Is it the only think that happened in British history??
They have not instigated a closure of any airports or even testing of arrivals. Mass transit operates without testing and only minimal cleansing.
Conservative MPs out hill walking or travelling between their numerous homes
The PM visited hospitals and shook hands with many patients despite the risk
They did do well!!!
So Sir Simon McDonald, a big wig at the FCO, has back tracked furiously on his statement yesterday that the UK took the political decision not to get involved in the EU procurement PPE programme, a typical ploy on being found out.
As the UK waited for PPE from Turkey, and people died due to lack of it. Over in the EU, due to the scheme that the UK shunned, EU doctors and nurse have received over £1.3 billions worth of PPE and other equipment.
The original bollocks from the UK government was that it accidently missed or had not received an e-mail to join the scheme. The reality is more like the UK governments dislike of the EU and Johnny Foreigner led them to ignore the scheme.
Sensibledave 10.42
Indy ’14 fair ?
Were you in Scotland at the time because there was nothing fair about it.
Westminster with its business pals and the entire MSM attacked the SNP 24/7 with distortions and lies and relentless scare stories culminating with the notorious Vow. Dear dear.
On 16/4 the Rev put a Thread Reader post on his tweets from @RussinCheshire. This guy posted a timeline on his twitter feed on 14/4 which is a timeline going back to Sep 2017 when the Government’s own body told us what was going to unfold now. It’s scary stuff. But they knew. The government knew this was coming and were told we were unprepared. The National Risk Register of Civil Emergencies is the body in question.
This is a must read. There is a lot of reading there but it’s like reading something being posted by a person that has just lived through this Pandemic.
Can anyone more tech savvy post it on here please? I could try but not sure how a ThreadReader link would come out. I’m sure there’s a few would like to read it. Thanks.
@Nonsensibledave
Not often that I comment here, but I found this offensive.
‘jocks’, really! Showing your own bias there.
Bill McLean says:
22 April, 2020 at 10:43 am
Just a quick thought and then off for my permitted excercise walk and a wee bit of “essential” shopping – red liquid in glass bottles..
Ha ha ha! I’ve been in lockdown too long. Brain needs therapy.
Just for a moment there, I was genuinely scratching my head to think of a whisky that’s red…
Did he mean ‘red’ red Whisky, or reddy brown red… Is it American? Is it maybe a pigment in a new fangled designer brand? Who on earth would drink that???…
….He meant wine, you retard, nobody mentioned whisky. What is wrong with you??? Lol.
In a resounding thumbs up for drug fix rooms in Scotland three quarters of injecting drug users said they would use the drug fix rooms if they were available.
However as we all know colonial Scotland doesn’t even hold the power to permit them, no that power lies with a foreign country.
Meanwhiles Scottish lives will continue to be lost needlessly, because a foreign government says we can’t create drug fix rooms.
How farical a situation is this, we have a good idea to help save folk addicted to drugs, yet we can’t implement it in our own country because another countries laws forbids it.
To show Scotland up for just what it is at the moment, a colony of England, the likes of Canada and Portugal already have drug fix rooms.
Sturgeon who’s no Wendy Wood (a great article on the die-hard indy supporter was in yesterdays National newspaper) who ripped down the union flag at Stirling castle replacing it with the Saltire, she formed the (DSSO) The Democratic Scottish-Self Government Organisation, to achieve complete separation from England.
Wood said Scotlands aims could not be achieved without direct action (not via Westminster) where Scots reps were outnumbered by their English counterparts.
Her forthright actions (what we really need today) saw the SNP fall out with her, in which she said that the SNP would expel William Wallace, (Salmond springs to mind) such was their apathy to really push for independence.
Wendy Wood, (I wish we had her here today or someone of similar fortitude) worried the English establishment so much that Special branch kept a close on on her, she was harangued by the (as they were called at the time) the Billy Boys, and she was beaten up by an English bobby for giving a speech to Scottish people in Trafalgar square.
Oh, if only Sturgeon had half of Wendy Woods mettle, Scotland would be independent by now.
Guys, with SensibleDave and Pete ALL of their
Ridiculous claims and counter claims have been torn to shreds daily.
Anyone with an ounce of sense would trot off to hide in a cupboard
and ponder on the mass murder of the innocent by infinite series of
Incompetent actions and lack of actions.
We supply them day after days with irrefutable
Facts relating to how badly Scotland has been treated
And how corrupt Westminster is and always have been
But they are not here to bring an open mind, be better
Educated and amend their outlook with revised information.
They come here to spread lies and cause disruption.
Nothing else.
We waste valuable time setting them straight with fact after fact
They refuse to comprehend.
Their incessant irritation of demanding black is white because
I’m an English superior being will never drive me away from this site
Or from Independence.
There are over 200 nations who operate independently.
All the Commonwealth nations got shot of English rape and
Abuse and none of them want England back.
Meindevon 11.40
Here’s the thread you wanted.
https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1249979118369869826
At willie 10.33
Well Said!!!
Republic o Scotland @ 11.23
I was listening to some female WM minister for ‘Health’ – didn’t catch her title – this morning on the English Broadcasting Corporation flagship Toady programme.
She assured the Great British Public that, far from missing out on PPE by not participating in the EU procurement, that very same EU procurement scheme has not yet delivered a single item of PPE anywhere in Europe. ( it must be true, I heard it on the radio ….)
Mind you, £1.3 billions worth of equipment insnae a single item is it?
Whenever anybody prattles on about the independence referendum
Always draw their attention to this.
The supposedly neutral civil servants who were awarded for their openly political activities against independence.
As civil servants you don’t get involved in politics. For the first time in my life, suddenly we’re part of a political campaign. We were doing everything from the analysis, to the advertising, to the communications. I just felt a massive sense of being part of the operation. This being recognised [at the Civil Service Awards], makes me feel just incredibly proud
http://archive.is/VIi8C
@ Bob W,
“Not often that I comment here, but I found this offensive.
‘jocks’, really! Showing your own bias there.”
Totaly agree Bob, When I saw that Dave had written that, I decided I wasn’t going to continue the conversation with him, as his sneering contempt for Scotland came out loud and clear in these few words.
When you are having a discussion with someone with the type of ignorance and bigotry, that they would come on to a comments section full of Scots and call us Jocks, then I’m afraid it becomes a waste of time.
At least Dave has been exposed as a bigot and a bit of an idiot and not really worth engaging with.
shug @ 11.14
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-52369173?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/england&link_location=live-reporting-story
Here’s another one to add to your list. British company hasn’t heard back from the UK gov on PPE. Read about another printing company which has 500,000 bits of PPE in boxes in warehouse ready to dispatch but after three weeks has given up and is about to sell it to Germany. The man bought extra materials and kept all his staff working to make PPE because he knew we would need it – his wife works in ICU – he has supplied local needs, including a surgeon who personally asked him for supplies to successfully carry out a tricky cancer? op but he has had no response from WM.
Not looking good for WM.
Classic from PMQs David Mundell cannot connect. Good from Ian Blackford calling for universal income
@ Golfnut at 11.46: “electorate get the government they deserve”.
More a case of the electorate get the government that the privately owned, mostly by overseas non-doms [and written for/by England] newspapers decide.
If on the same day [and preferably for several days] the assistant editors of all the newspapers [obv the editors will never do so] wrote the truth – the fact that electorate is being manipulated e.g. £350 thou/w to EU; dark money; Facebook targeting; Graylings ferries contract with the firm his brother was on the board of; lack of action after Cygnus; concealing Covid deaths by excluding non-hospital deaths etc etc etc – then the electorate would know who was the real enemy.
So if anyone here has links to the head of the NUJ perhaps?
And if at the same time some decent BBC employees seized control of the News studio that would be helpful!
BBC ten news last night, casual ‘Scotland has higher care home deaths’ thrown in at the end of a piece regarding care home deaths in England and Wales or just England can’t recall because so much of the news was about England’s numbers and hospitals and care homes etc. But that casual wee remark just shows how subtly the BBC infects the mind’s of those too ignorant to notice, because of course Scotland’s numbers of C19 deaths ‘can’t possibly be higher than England’s?
I mean it’s not fucking arithmetic…oh..wait..
mike cassidy
The complete thread
https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1249979116302012418
Hi Sensibledave at 10:52 am.
You asked,
“You do need to ask yourself, as others on here should too, why you would be surprised at English folk proudly displaying their flag? What skewed view of the English are you carrying around with you?”
My “skewed view of the English” is a product of the confusion that many in England display when it comes to their national flag. They appear to believe that both the union flag AND St George’s cross are flags of England.
Here’s just one example. An article about the Scotland v England footie match. If you scroll down to the second pic at the link below, you see a group of footballers holding a union flag. Why use a pic featuring the union flag in an article about the Scotland v England match? Just plain ignorance, perchance?
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/2017/june/09-june/west-ham-legend-alvin-martin-england-versus-scotland-fixtures-are
And the civil servant I quoted above
A speechwriter for both Darling and Osbourne
http://archive.is/kWjx6
Has seen his career appropriately awarded.
http://archive.is/YzrYs
mike cassidy says:
22 April, 2020 at 12:04 pm
Meindevon 11.40
This link is a belter
sadly never to see the light of day on the BBC
You would think an MSP or MP might ask a question about it
Richard Leonard demanding the same death rate across the UK, he believes dyingtogether is the best for Scotland. Probably shouting ‘What virus are you going to use’ if you don’t stick with the disaster of Westminster.
IMHO, Scotland is going nowhere, as long as the SNP considers its’ judgement superior to the jurisprudence of international law.
So…I see that some are beginning to understand the utter futility of ‘debating’ with Davey boy on here, well it perhaps may be helpful to know that we have all had these kind of pointless insulting derogatory opinionated condescending and patronising spats with him on here for many years.
So I’m going to post a snippet to make my point and for some general entertainment of just how utterly pointless it is, in fact not longer after these exchanges Davey boy disappeared from these threads and has only recently popped in again to share his patronising and condescending guff yet again, I do wonder why though. Because many of us covered all the same old same old shit he’s still spouting. I apologise in advance for the length of this, but feel free to skip. But for those who were part of it, enjoy the rerun 😉
* ?K1 says: ?24 January, 2017 at 1:45 pm?
‘do you think I am persuaded by the power of your thought and argument’?Do you think anyone is persuaded by the power of your thought and argument??It’s not ‘your’ ‘argument’ that’s in question. You merely parrot what you have been taught ‘to’ think, It is you who does not ‘debate’ Davey boy. You repeat what you ‘read’ and ‘hear’ from pundits and merely regurgitate those ‘established’ viewpoints, repeatedly. ?
In effect, you come on to Wings and bluster in a condescending utterly obnoxious manner. That’s not debating Davey boy, that’s a wee boy, (an ‘immature’ adult), who ‘thinks’ what ‘he’ has to say is more important than what any one else has to say and indulges in humiliating others as a means of ‘proving’ his superiority. What this approach does is suck any validity out of any ‘point’ you may make and it is that, that you are getting pelted for.?
The two combined amount to: “I read this thing and I agree with it, I heard this thing and I agree with it, my logic is sound and you are all off the mark. How can you all be so stupid as not to agree with ‘me’? If you answer me back and it doesn’t exactly match the thing that I am speaking about and I don’t understand it, I am going to piss all over ‘you’ and tell ‘you’ that ‘you’ are missing ‘my’ point, and if you then get really pissed off with my circular logic, well then that just proves that ‘you’ are a ‘fool’ and ‘idiot”!?And round and round it goes.?We see you Davey boy. There really isn’t gong to be some ‘imagined’ (in your heid) moment in the future when you have ‘proved’ yourself ‘right’ on here. None of us is going to have an epiphany and realise that Davey boy was ‘onto’ something.
We’re all quite capable of reading and understanding what is happening in our world and of having our own views on a wide range of issues surrounding our political circumstances. ?There is genuine debate on these threads. No one is pissing all over everyone else. You are the only person that comes on to Wings to take a piss on people. Then you wonder why people tell you to fuck off? No one likes getting pissed on. So it’s simple: Fuck off wi that behaviour until you become adult enough to actually debate properly.?
?
* ?sensibledave says: ?24 January, 2017 at 2:04 pm?
Grousey 12.07?You provide me with a perfect example of your idiocy and projection in one stupid response.?You wrote: “A unionist says no one is capable of debating with his level of bollocks.”?A) I am not a Unionist. I just happen to be in a Union – I have been since I was born.?B) I didn’t say “no one is capable …” I said you weren’t?C) As discussed above, apparently you think I am writing bollocks but you do not point to a particular phrase. Is it that you think my belief in democracy is bollocks for instance.?You see what I mean Grousey? You wrote one short sentence and got 3 things wrong in just 14 words. Impressive!?Are you sober? Are you the written word equivalent of the shouty drunk in the street spouting profanities at passers by Grousey???
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* ?K1 says: ?24 January, 2017 at 2:17 pm
?“I read what you wrote Grousey”?“I ‘read’ into what you wrote and decided that this is what you meant Grousey”?“I continued to form the rest of what I said according to my ‘reading’ of what you wrote Grousey”?“You are ‘so’ (insert number to embellish ‘strength’ of how wrong you are) wrong Grousey, about what my ‘reading’ of what you wrote was about Grousey”?“I’m going to insult you now Grousey, using pejorative imagery about drunks”?*Davey boy…leans back blowing smoke rings oot his arse*?
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* ?sensibledave says: ?24 January, 2017 at 2:27 pm?
What’s up K1?? You are like another toddler jumping up and down demanding my attention.?This is surreal. Here we are in dead thread where nobody is watching and you appear to be demanding that I engage with you K1.?Sorry, you should still be at playschool shouldn’t you??
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* ?K1 says: ?24 January, 2017 at 2:31 pm?There you are Davey boy…gotcha: insult first, next and last. Exactly ‘who’ you are. ??
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* ?sensibledave says: ?24 January, 2017 at 2:47 pm?
KI … you should know that insulting people is not generally my style, I much prefer debate. ?However, given that it appears to be just me, Grousey and you here – I feel it is ok to respond more forcefully than normal. Are you two sharing a brain cell??Do let me know if, at some point, you have got a point to make about politics. In the meantime, feel free to have a tantrum and shout at the world because we are all against you you know. We really are. The people of London and South east England voted Remain just to pee off Ms Sturgeon and her troops. Ooops! No we didnt! We voted the same way as the SNP supporters!!! Them bloody suveners eh, voting the same way as you just to wind you. Bleedin liberty!?
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* ?Grouse Beater says: ?24 January, 2017 at 3:04 pm?
K1: “You come on to Wings and bluster in a condescending utterly obnoxious manner.”?On target, K1. And much obliged.?He won’t accept opinion is not facts nor is conjecture. There’s a disturbing aspect to the way he insists on repeating the same opinion. Worse, he demonstrates a glaring immaturity, the need to dominate and hold attention. Poorly informed opinion is easily dealt with, but we’re faced by a personality who insists on belittling anybody who dares tackle him, and then adds, “Insulting people is not my style”. Sheesh.??
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* ?K1 says: ?24 January, 2017 at 3:14 pm?
‘I feel it is ok to respond more forcefully than normal.’?That’s an ‘alternative fact’ Davey boy. ?————————————-?‘who insists on belittling anybody who dares tackle him, and then adds, “Insulting people is not my style”. Sheesh.’?Indeed the evidence supports the case that Davey boy lacks the prerequisite attributes for ‘debate’ that he ‘claims’ he alone possesses. Further…we now adjourn this session of the surreal dud thread, on the grounds that we have made our case: Davey boy is indeed a maister bater. Laters Grouse ??
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* ?Grouse Beater says: ?24 January, 2017 at 3:20 pm?
K1, Agreed?To normality and beyond…?
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* ?sensibledave says: ?24 January, 2017 at 3:34 pm?
KI?You seem unable to understand the most basic points K1!?You have not responded to political points that I have raised – you just want to talk about me?!?!?You haven’t “tackled” me, i.e take issue with or argue against anything I have written – you just take issue with my style!?Pick any thread from the last few days where I was engaging with you all. Then, let me know and I will cut and paste every insult thrown at me and you can compare with any insults that you think I have made.?You talk about me disrupting debate. What debate? Show me a regular home Winger who has had an issue with something, anything, that Ms Sturgeon has said or done in the recent past.
You can’t because there isn’t anyone. ?Its all very odd. Maybe she is perfect and she really has got some sort of positive plan (i.e. rather than a wrecking plan) to achieve something. Anything. ?All I see is she seems o spend almost all of her time and energy thinking of ways to make life difficult for non-scots. Of course that is her right – but how about she actually deals with Scotland as it currently is – and tries to address some of those issues rather than just attention seeking elsewhere?
I am beginning to wonder if the main problem here (a la Clegg) is that she had her medium term plan to be some overpaid blowhard in the EU (a la Les Kinnocks) so that she could pull in a few million over the next decade – and thats all looking a bit dodgy now???
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* ?K1 says: ?24 January, 2017 at 4:33 pm
?‘You have not responded to political points that I have raised’?You haven’t ‘raised’ any political points, you’ve regurgitated what you have read in the papers. You quite literally write what the pundits write, you see through the lens of the ‘established’ media in the UK mainstream Davey boy. ?You have opinions Davey boy, that’s it. No one said anything about you not having those, but they are not ‘political points’, they are a mixture of your ‘assertions’ based on others’ opinions. ?I don’t have to get into a back and forth with other’s opinions Davey boy, you on the other hand shove yours down people’s throats and if they proffer a different ‘outlook’ you insult them and attack them personally with insults.
That’s the level of your engagement with just about anyone on these threads. ?Tell you what why don’t you do some research yourself and go find every comment you have made and maybe just maybe you will see the pattern more objectively??Further. It’s not about your ‘style’ that I take issue with it’s the entire insulting and condescending ‘manner’ in which you choose to express those opinions and your capacity to ‘rationalise’ away your own insulting behaviour on the basis of what? That someone does it to you therefore you justify ‘your’ insults accordingly? So two wrong do make a right??No one has this issue that you have with Nicola Sturgeon Davey boy, it’s you who sets the tone of divisiveness on that matter, again you take up the ‘view’ of what the mainstream media is punting in this regard. ?
We have had countless discussions on Wings about the merits and demerits of policies put forward by the SNP. There is discussion on the main thread right now on the back of SC ruling where people have differing ‘opinions’ about the best way forward. The insistence from you that all on Wings are somehow ‘blindly’ following the SNP/Nicola is just an assertion on your part Davey boy, one derived from a ‘tone’ set by the UK establishment.
Also why ask a question and then provide ‘your’ own answer, don’t you see that this is not debating:?‘What debate? Show me a regular home Winger who has had an issue with something, anything, that Ms Sturgeon has said or done in the recent past. You can’t because there isn’t anyone.’?That’s a question followed immediately by your own conclusion. You are not interested in debating Davey boy, you are merely insisting that your ‘take’ on this is ‘the’ take. You honestly do not seem to possess the capacity to see from the others’ perspective.?Your next paragraph goes to the heart of the issue in terms of your expressing an ‘opinion’ not a political point:?‘Its all very odd. Maybe she is perfect and she really has got some sort of positive plan (i.e. rather than a wrecking plan) to achieve something. Anything.’?
She’s got a ‘positive’ plan to ensure that the people of Scotland have their voice heard and listened to and accommodated within the framework of the EU brexit. I do not recognise the divisive language you use to describe her ‘approach’ in terms of ‘wrecking’ to be anything other than the fevered theatrics of those who have bought into the spin that this is the ‘purpose’ or ‘function’ of our representatives in securing a deal that is suited to the polity that elected them.?The last paragraph again is full of your opinions and fears. I don’t know Nicola Sturgeon and therefore I wouldn’t ever consider characterising in the manner that you have. I don’t know what she is doing with her time and what she thinks ‘all the time’ about anything. ?Ye see Davey I don’t think in the same terms as you and I certainly don’t have your fears about Nicola Sturgeon. She is not the ‘demon’ that your words infer, that she is somehow plotting to ‘wreck’ anything that you hold dear.?You don’t live here, so let me assure you that most of what you probably have read about the SNP government is again through the lens of a very hostile press.
The SNP are very successful in dealing with Scotland as it is. I think given 9/10 years in office rather speaks to that little ‘dig’ of yours which you can only have gleaned from a very bias press Davey boy.?Again with the pejoratives: ‘…rather than just attention seeking elsewhere?’ In ‘your’ opinion’ Davey boy, which again is derived from pundits/commentators who characterise the SNP/Nicola in that childish way.?Your last sentence I honestly don’t understand. Some cynical attempt to ‘paint’ them/Nicola as some cynical politico out for money and fame. So off the mark, it just doesn’t make any kind of rational sense Davey boy.?So to conclude. That was another wee rant ye had again: Nicola bad, tic, attention seeking, tic, money grabbing (possibly), tic, get on wi ‘real’ job, tic. ?And you have ‘no’ ‘dog in the fight’. ?‘All I see is she seems o spend almost all of her time and energy thinking of ways to make life difficult for non-scots.’?Evidence???
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* ?K1 says: ?24 January, 2017 at 6:57 pm?
Oh just to be clear, there are many Europeans and many other nationalities living in Scotland, there are many English people living in Scotland also, so I do not recognise your term ‘non-scots’ as meaningful in terms of discussions on the political issues surrounding the constitutional debate that takes place on Wings.?All of the people living in Scotland are Scotland’s polity. An unfortunate implication from your term ‘non-scots’ could be taken to read that those who are not Scottish by birth are only who Ms Sturgeon seeks ‘ways to make life difficult’ for? ?I do hope you did not mean that Davey boy and will give you the benefit of the doubt on this occasion. For we do not distinguish between those who are born in Scotland and those who live and work in Scotland as somehow ‘non-scots’.
Neither is that the ‘marker’ which defines the constitutional question. It’s not about those ‘who are not born in Scotland nor those who live in Scotland regardless of birth nation’ either, that is not the ‘distinction’ that our wish for self determination rests upon. It is not founded ‘against’ other ‘people’ or other ‘nationalities’. ?Which rather holes your ‘whole’ point if indeed your point is that Ms Sturgeon seeks to ‘make life difficult’, because her and our issue is with the Parliament at Westminster. Why would you bring ‘nationality’ into this Davey boy??Our self determination is centred around the democratic deficit inherent in this outdated and one sided Union, it has nothing to do with being ‘Scot’ or ‘non-Scot’. It’s do to with Scotland the Kingdom becoming independent from England the Kingdom.
The fact that we are ‘termed’ Scots has absolutely nothing to with it. It isn’t blood and soil with us Davey boy. But I’d put a fiver on it, that it is for you.?I await your ‘evidence’ that supports your ‘assertion’ that Nicola Sturgeon’s days and nights are spent in the manner you describe, you must provide ‘your’ definition of the term ‘non-scots’ and must also provide hard, factual evidence that this is indeed the case:?‘All I see is she seems o spend almost all of her time and energy thinking of ways to make life difficult for non-scots.’?
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* ?Andrew McLean says: ?25 January, 2017 at 1:08 pm
?Sensible, first an apology, I do slip into the singular, and that is wrong, you appear to be as aghast at the events in England as the rest of us, well most of us anyway.?You would be correct complaining if the SNP were trying to prevent England from leaving the EU, that would be undemocratic, but in truth the SNP are doing no such thing. ?In Westminster the SNP are trying to get the best deal for Scotland, all Scottish MP’s and all English, Welsh and Irish MP’s should be doing the same, keeping in mind the results of the referendum in their constituency and countries.?In Holyrood, the parliament will vote according the the National will and in that it will be more democratic than Westminster given the electoral system , the Tories will want to rubber stamp anything T may says, the greens and the SNP will want to keep as much of a relationship with the EU as possible, and yes they can put what in reality they want that to be, but God knows what the lesser parties will want. ?And in this any political party are doing what they are designed to do, express the will of the electorate, the SNP as a party are pro European, all constituency’s voted to remain in our country. So the position and aim of the Scottish Government is clear. Protect Scotland in Europe, and if they fail then its legitimate to ask the electorate for a mandate to end the Union.?
As I have said before, classing the UK as a single atomised society of individuals results in a democratic “tyranny of the majority” in which an individual Nation or in the case of Wales or Northern Ireland rights are compromised. ?Again David, you and I do mean you, have a anglo-centric view, and that is normal, but it is not right. ?Scotland will have another Independence referendum, that is now a certainty, its only when is not certain.?And a worrying thought for Westminster, and in this I can only speak for myself, if we should fail in that endeavour, in winning a majority, well yes Indy ref 3 will be the next goal. ?Again I can only speak for myself, I am a Scotsman and will never accept the union as the overlord of my Nation, it is an aberration that needs to be cast into history.?And if it takes 10 years or 50 or a hundred to end it so be it but it will end.?
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* ?sensibledave says: ?25 January, 2017 at 1:56 pm?
OK K1?… you have at least responded to my comments specifically and given your opinion, I thank you for that.?Let me address the big issue first. You make points about my criticism and characterisations of Ms Sturgeon and sometimes the SNP. People often say it is nothing to so with me and repeatedly ask why I am on here. I invite you to go down a thread (of your choice) and where there is a reference to Ms May or Westminster – check out the other words that will inevitably accompany them. ?
You will see why I, because I am usually the only Tory Southerner her on Wings, may wish to have an issue.?Please take what write next as an apolitical (I.e. not party politics) statement from a Remain voter living in England (in a region comprising over 19 million voters who voted Remain by a majority of 55% to 45% i.e. London and the South East – an area that disproportionately contributes tax receipts to the “UK” coffers).?Scotland recently had a referendum and voted to stay part of the UK. The UK recently had a referendum on whether it wanted to leave or Remain in the Eu. Remain, my choice, lost the vote.?Against my wishes, the UK has voted to leave the EU. Do I do a Clegg/Faron/Sturgeon and put all of my effort into trying to overturn or obfuscate the clear democratic will of the peopople of the whole of the UK – or do I accept that it is going to happen and look to make the best of it? I choose the latter.?Others, like MS Sturgeon, in my judgement, have another agenda. I believe that almost everything she now says and does on this subject is designed to make life as difficult as possible for the “UK” to get the best result from the negotiations.
This is because she believes that is in her political best interests i.e. the interests of the SNP and the cause of Scottish Independence. I have a huge issue with that K1.?Logically, I am arguing that she is trying to worsen the situation for UK (60 odd million people) because she believes it will be helpful to her political ambitions for Scotland.?Whilst I think it appalling behavior in the context of the UK, I accept that she has every right to try and do whatever she wants. At the same time, I have every right to call it like I see it and criticise as I see fit.?As part of Westminster (my only place of government), the SNP have got 50 odd MPs that take a full active part in proceedings. They are part of the opposition to the duly elected UK government. Again, the SNP can choose to operate at Westminster how it sees fit.
They do not have the right to affect law making and/or UK decision making – just because they represent a particular part of the UK. No more, or less than anyone area, region or nation. It is the UK government has to carry a democratic mandate in the house to get its way. Just as it should be.?At the moment, we have an avowed Remainer (Ms Sturgeon) demanding that Scotland be dealt with differently to everyone else – or she will do everything she can to make life as difficult as possible for everyone else. Again, however deplorable, she has that right.
The rest of us have the right to judge her, her methods and tactics and her ridiculous assertions accordingly.?I note that Ms Sturgeon has almost saintly status with SNP supporters. I don’t know of many other politicians that can command such respect from her own crowd – whilst she deliberately seeks to irritate, destructively, everyone else. I find it weird but it is what it is. ?As the UK (comprising over 60 odd million souls), attempts to resolve one of its most difficult challenges since the war, I would prefer that our politicians had the UK’s best interest at heart. Demonstrably, Ms Sturgeon does not. She cares only about Sottish Independence regardless of the affect she is having on the chances of getting a good Brexit deal.
She is aiding the other side in the negotiations. Unforgivable (along with the likes of Clegg, Farron, Ken Clarke, etc). At least Ken Clarke accepts that his stance has nothing to do with the “Will of the People” because he thinks he knows better.?I don’t want to get all high and mighty because I am too cynical for that – but democracy is precious. In the end Ms Sturgeon and the SNP is hell bent on frustrating the will of the people and I have every right to say what I think about that – and judge her accordingly.?
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* ?sensibledave says: ?25 January, 2017 at 2:18 pm?
Andrew?You wrote: “Again I can only speak for myself, I am a Scotsman and will never accept the union as the overlord of my Nation, it is an aberration that needs to be cast into history.”?I accept that is how you feel Andrew. However, there is nothing anyone in the UK, other than your fellow country folk can do to help you. You need to convince a majority, have a referendum, win it’ and leave the UK. The rest of us may be sad (or not) but that would be democracy and, genuinely, good luck to everyone.?Implicit in your statement quoted above though, is an anti-democratic sentiment. Again implicitly, you are arguing that you should have what you want – and to hell with democracy. That never ends well.?
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* ?Andrew McLean says: ?25 January, 2017 at 3:00 pm
?David,?If you read anything undemocratic then you are misreading both my intent and the argument. Again your reading of my final sentiments shows you just don’t accept Scotland as a Nation, but remember it was the same sentiment that your countrymen abhorred when it was said about about Ireland, India, America once all were extensions of Their Britannic Majesties,, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas, etc. ?Just a point, it is not undemocratic to say, yes everyone voted one way, but do you know what I disagree so will continue to argue against the perceived wisdom, if none did that we would not have progressed as a species. ?As for my “Country folk” Oh arr! ??
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* ?K1 says: ?25 January, 2017 at 3:40 pm?
I can only state Davey boy that you are entitled to your opinion. It is just that though. ?There is no need therefore for you to be so aggrieved on a site whose whole ethos is centred around the cause of Scotland’s self determination. Paint it in any way you choose, by all means disagree but to indulge in such disagreeableness was a big part of the ‘point’ I was elaborating on. ?As I have said, I’m not going to argue the ‘opinion’ points because as Andrew has stated you and we all to a certain extent have come through the same anglocentric conditioning in that regard and most of us on Wings no longer view our ‘world’ through that lens.
We in Scotland are choosing a different path, the SNP got to where they are because we voted for them Davey boy. So no point in you belligerently attacking them as somehow illegitimate in the Westminster context, because they are not. You weren’t saying that when we sent 40 odd Labour duds down to Westminster, whose interests were also those of Scotland’s polity.?Simply I would imagine because as you are more or less saying your issue is with the SNP’s prime directive: Scotland’s independence. We get it that you disagree. But the point in asking why you come on to the number one site that supports an independent Scotland knowing full well that those who comment btl are its advocates is a valid one in that context??The people in Scotland sent those MP’s to Westminster so in effect you are criticising our choices and telling us we’re all slavishly ‘following’ some ‘one’/’party’ you don’t trust. Which again is just your opinion. What irks me Davey boy is that you personally attack others who obviously will disagree with you.
Rather than acknowledging our differences you attempt weak personal insult because people get fed up being telt by others that they are ‘wrong’. Which is in essence what you do. And when they give you short shrift you shreik ‘you are doing it to me’. It’s a mystery what you actually ‘get’ from coming on here and in essence moaning/decrying our choices??It’s okay that you disagree Davey boy it isn’t okay for you to attack us cause you don’t like our choices. I don’t think there is much left to discuss, but don’t think for a moment that I think you are done with whatever it is you are doing on this site. ?
I think Andrew covers all the other obvious arguments you make for your ‘angry’ position. Don’t know what to say to you Davey boy, ‘cept maybe just ‘get over it’. I don’t mean that in a horrible way, more like ‘shrug’ so what you don’t like us changing our political arrangements with England…but we are going to do it anyway.?
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* ?Thepnr says: ?25 January, 2017 at 4:33 pm
?@sensibledave?K1 and Grousey now own you. Your balls have been cut off and are hung on the mantelpiece. What’s that you say? Abusive hahaha, truth is you cannae take it.?
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* ?sensibledave says: ?25 January, 2017 at 5:25 pm?
Thepnr 4.33?Haha, thanks for that helpful intervention – you prove my point for me! ?Anyway, thanks to K1 and Andrew for a spirited discussion. Thanks also to Grousey for adding the light relief and reminding us to count our blessings that we are not as bitter, twisted and moany as he is.?I’m not sure that we made any progress towards a meeting of minds but good nevertheless.?
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* ?K1 says: ?25 January, 2017 at 8:28 pm?
Here is where we ‘meet’ Davey boy.?‘I don’t want to get all high and mighty because I am too cynical for that – but democracy is precious. In the end Ms Sturgeon and the SNP is hell bent on frustrating the will of the people and I have every right to say what I think about that – and judge her accordingly.’
?I want to get honest and real because I’m not cynical about democracy for it is indeed precious. In the end Ms May and the Tories are hell bent on maintaining this Union with Scotland whereby the democratic deficit is played out in every general election that the United Kingdom ever has. Wherein the Kingdom of England/Wales outvotes, because of the sheer numbers of England’s polity, the Kingdom of Scotland’s clear and undeniable rejection of those Tories.
?England would still have gotten Blair’s Labour government without the votes from Scotland in ’97, it just so happened England wanted Labour and Labour triangulated, ditched it’s principles to make itself ‘tory lite’ enough for those in the south to vote for them at that time.
?We have been seeking self determination for Scotland decades (a century) before this referendum vote got you all worked up about Ms Sturgeon Davey boy. Our ‘will’ has been ‘frustrated’ for generations Davey boy. And we too have as much right to ‘do’ something about this as you feel you have about your ‘democratic’ grievances over the reaction of those who do not agree with your ‘response’ to the EU result.
You are now ironically experiencing what Scotland has experienced for decades Davey boy.
Devolution is the actual ‘acknowledgement’ of that democratic deficit by the ‘establishment’ Davey boy? They just don’t want us to have any more ‘power’ and subsequently ‘powers’ devolved are ultimately powers retained by Westminster.
?The SNP were not ‘meant’ to win a majority…ever in the newly set up ‘executive’. But the people in Scotland figured out how to work the voting system to ‘their’ advantage and put in place people who gave a fuck about how things were going in this United Kingdom, especially since the failed Blairism (tory lite), experiment was ‘seen through’ by swathes of our population here in Scotland.?The EU referendum was a spill out into the public domain, of a fight the Tories have been having with themselves since ever Thatcher decided it was a good idea to become part of that trading bloc. And here we find ourselves.
?Our democratic deficit is ‘merely’ more starkly revealed by the EU referendum result Davey, it’s not ‘because’ of the referendum result. Nicola Sturgeon can no more walk away from her principles having achieved a Remain result in Scotland than Theresa May can walk away from being the Tory that she is? Nicola Sturgeon is doing what ‘we’ asked her to do: protect our interests.
Your ‘democracy’ in England, you feel is challenged by another party who you do not recognise as ‘legitimate’ ‘law makers’ in your polity: ‘They do not have the right to affect law making and/or UK decision making – just because they represent a particular part of the UK’
That’s exactly ‘our’ point Davy boy.
You see and identify your polity as England and the parliament as a predominantly ‘England’ parliament. A true democracy does not and never did exist on these islands. The Tories have not represented the views of those living in Scotland for over 4 decades now and still ‘we’ have to accept England’s choice and be told as you have, that our representatives are not to interfere with ‘decision making’ just because they are ‘what’? The Kingdom/nation that shares with England the same exact status as England in forming the very United Kingdom that you yourself state we have no ‘right to affect law making and/or UK (United Kingdom) decision making’?
We are signatories of the Treaties that formed the United Kingdom. We are a nation, not a region.
As long as you deliberately ‘avoid’ that reality and it’s ‘meaning’ then of course what you say makes perfect sense…to you.
You take care Davey boy, no more hissy fits ‘pretending’ you don’t ‘see’ what others are pointing out. ?
Thank you, Mike
Why isn’t this all over the headlines and all over the U.K….I guess we know the answer to that.
Might send it to my MP, Ben Bradshaw.
The FT claiming at least 41,000 people in the UK have died from Covid-19. I find it hard to disagree with them, due to way the UK government has handled the pandemic.
http://archive.fo/OTMHB
How come no one gave me a row for saying ‘Jock’. Would Ladies from Hell be more appropriate?
News from the frontline of dealing with the virus.
We are just beginning to recognize that Covid pneumonia initially causes a form of oxygen deprivation we call “silent hypoxia” — “silent” because of its insidious, hard-to-detect nature.
http://archive.is/Dc4UU
There’s going to be a run on pulse oximeters, if ye thought toilet paper was an issue, watch this space.
@ Mike Cassidy.
The Civil service are involved daily in the very political action of providing GERS figures for the OBR.
@ Sarah.
Good point, but even after 10 yrs of needless vindictive austerity, England voted for Boris.
@ Dog biscuit
Had I read your post containing it, I would have.
It is in my view a derogatory term usually used by those who wish to demean Scots.
It’s cause no one is reading all the posts 😉
‘sensibledave’
Didnt you know, matey? Your ‘flag’ was hijacked by right wing
neo-nazis years ago.
Guardian questioner at FM briefing asking why the SGov doing nothing about that oxygen and ventilators should be on standby in every care home.
The Times suggesting that the Wales figures and in England have less deaths than Scottish care homes which seem more dangerous.
(BTY: Welsh and English figures are about a week behind Scotland)
Should the Scottish administration take a pay cut like the New Zealand Gov. Eh!
FM reminds the dolt that the SGov have already been taking a pay cut for a long long time.
Maybe the MSM should tune into big Auntie News before going for the jucular! FGS!
The Eye of Sauron is certainly focussing on Scotland today business as usual. 🙂
If the SNP doesn’t stop pricking about at playing British constitutionalism, there will be no hope for a viable Scotland in Brexitania.
Right-wing populist parties endorse what can be recognised as the “arrogance of ignorance”
https://www.cairn.info/revue-mots-2017-3-page-165.htm#
Yes, I believe there is now about to be a concerted effort by msm to ‘refocus’ away form England/Wales onto Scotland’s ‘deficiencies’ as a means of deflection from the true scale of deaths and problems down there. Surprised they took so long really.
Trump is the King of Ignorance ergo his enormous Arrogance.
Dog biscuit says:
22 April, 2020 at 1:26 pm
Cos no one, no one is interested. Good afternoon jackie!
@McDuff
Seniledave handily forgets about stuff like this…
https://web.archive.org/web/20150127104111/https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/hm-treasury-team-wins-special-civil-service-award
To flip his own argument that he attempted to reel out yesterday about how could we Scots possibly know what it feels to be English, then just reciprocate that point and we arrive at how could he possibly know how Scots felt about the Indyref Campaign.
He’ll inevitably try and make hay from my Seniledave line at some future point in relation to folk on here being nasty or some such thing, but the reality is he does act senile because he has regularly been called out and corrected on numerous matters in the past yet consistently fails to update or adjust his narrative in lieu of this.
I don’t know how many lurkers read btl commentary and whether they do consistently or just browse occasionally. SD’s modus operandi would probably only be “successful” in relation to occasional readers, because anyone that follows btl regularly would see his pish being consistently rebuked.
This is where the “don’t feed the trolls” matter comes into question. Do you allow the shit he posts to go undealt with which may lead to the occasional reader thinking that because nobody rebuked or corrected him it must mean what he stated is correct, or do you consistently rebuke or corrected them at every opportunity so the occasional reader always sees his pish called out, but at the cost of the repetition boring the folk that follow btl regularly.
C’mon lurkers, both regular and occasional, help us out here, what say you on the best way to address this matter?
Do you want trolls ignored or see them getting a metaphorical boot in the baws.
Of course being a democrat I will also accept if the will of the folk want me to piss off should they wish it.
Robbo you’re not interested in facing reality either.Calling me Jackie?You sound paranoid.
I see big Auntie giving the Scottish number now at 1616 (which RNS figure to last Sunday) It seems to be a more popular number for telling the viewers than the ‘normal’ daily death ‘in hospital’ total for Scotland of 1062. 🙁
PS:
Just announced ‘in hospital’ deaths in England today
665 giving a total of 16272.
Until the Scottish government acknowledges contemporary British constitutional practice is incompatible with international law, they will be powerless to defend Scotland from English Torydum. The Scottish government is unlikely to adopt this position, as the Scottish government is part of British constitutionalism. Would a snake eat itself?
Lord Neuberger on the rule of law and access to justice
https://publiclawforeveryone.com/2013/10/16/lord-neuberger-on-the-rule-of-law-and-access-to-justice/
Nearly pee’d myself laughing, Ruth Davidson punting an article claiming the pandemic needs a global response and Britain should lead it. Well I suppose if the countries of the world want to reduce the death toll by hiding the numbers then the UK government is the goto government for expertise in this field.
BBC Scotland News headlines that retail sales have slumped, they have analysed this and think it may be something to do with lockdown and all the shops being closed.
With such in depth analysis it’s hard to argue with the opinion that we need independent online media, could any independent blogger produce this quality of output and would they want to.
Gary Smith GMB Union should be PM . He knows all the answers.
He echoes Sir Keith Starmer but tells it in a more rabble rousing manner and using the misfortune of elderly relatives he sows fear and alarm.
Gary Smith’s outrageous remark that we are turning our care homes into morgues Insults us all.
A tory gets treatment in the nhs.
http://www.clintonsretail.com/prick-his-boil-card
Nicola sturgeon doesn’t seem to understand that potentially wiping out 1/3rd of the Scottish economy is going to kill more people than the actual virus. I read today that the numbers of patients in ICU is down again today at only 155 people, hardly the apocalypse people were predicting a month ago.
NS wants to avoid easing the lockdown because she is afraid that it will cause a resurgence in the virus. But that is that just delaying the inevitable as she will have to ease the lockdown before the damage to the economy becomes too catastrophic and then there will be a resurgence. And nobody in their right mind would propose for the lockdown to continue until a vaccine is in place.
I have not been able to find any information on this but I’m curious if testing actually being completed in Scotland or are the samples being shipped down to england to be conducted?
TJenny says:
22 April, 2020 at 8:15 am
Robert louis + Breeks – I thought Angus Robertson had withdrawn from challenging the Edin Central seat owing to, erm, events.
I haven’t heard that T Jenny. Can’t say yay or nay, but his Twitter still has a pinned tweet from February saying he wants to contest the seat.
I liked Angus Robertson. I thought it was great to see a Scottish MP speaking fluent German defending Scotland’s place in Europe, but this Wokist garbage and GRA nonsense seems to be a departure from sanity and a worrying phenomenon when the whole SNP seems tainted by it’s influence.
Something really stinks, and unless there are big changes and a right good clear-out, then my hopes will remain focussed on a new Indy Party that is true to Scottish Independence and Constitutional Sovereignty.
Frankly, the way it’s shaping up, I think the SNP needs Joanna Cherry a lot more than Joanna Cherry needs the SNP.
I want to see Joanna Cherry taking Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation before the UN and Council of Europe, and if she’s doing so as a “Constitutional Guardian” of Scotland, then the actions in law will be much more important and significant than ANY political platform Joanna Cherry happens to adopt.
But a Constitutional edict from the UN, assuming we win such a thing, will still need International Recognition, and if Joanna Cherry has one foot planted firmly in Scots Law and Sovereign Constitutiona, with her other foot planted firmly in Scottish democratic government, then with both credentials, the prospects for International Recognition seem that much brighter.
The SNP needs to have a serious word with itself, and fast, because they are living on borrowed time. My spidey senses are telling me a LOT of people would take to a new Independence Party in a heartbeat, as if it was always meant to be.
Government shelves Priti Patel’s immigration bill
The government has withdrawn its controversial immigration bill that seeks to introduce a points-based system after Brexit.
If this is true its a very big u-turn
@mike Cassidy, 1.28
At last, an acknowledgement from the corporate media.
Ian Brotherhood posted this clip some days ago which was the clinical observation from ICU physician – COVID 19 patients do not die from respiratory failure, they die from hypoxia- date of the clip 30 March. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9GYTc53r2o
Other physicians are making the same observation https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID_19_Protocol_-_4-15-2020.pdf
There is a very good illustration of the course of the disease and possible treatment on page 2.
The protocol states “It is important to recognize that COVID-19 does not cause “typical ARDS”… this disease must be treated differently and it is likely that mechanical ventilation may be exacerbating this situation by causing ventilator induced lung injury (i.e. the ventilator may cause the disease we think we are treating)[my bold]. Patients suffer from oxygenation failure and not lung failure. Furthermore, this is predominantly an immune and clotting disorder and not a lung disease.”
The focus should not be on ventilators but on PPE to prevent front line staff from being overwhelmed by viral overload. It is criminal negligence sending staff into work without adequate protection.
SARS-CoV2 is attacking the blood cells. Stop the destruction of the red blood cells early on and the person’s immune system is not compromised. Hydroxychloroquine + zinc stop/reduce the attack. The emphasis needs to be on early intervention.
US GP on early intervention treatment for COVID-19 http://archive.is/iBZFZ
Professor Didier Raoult has completed a further study of the efficacy of HCQ_AZ in treating COVID-19. The cohort size was 1061. https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/early-treatment-of-1061-covid-19-patients-with-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-marseille-france/
The conclusion was “The HCQ-AZ combination, when started immediately after diagnosis, is a safe and efficient treatment for COVID-19, with a mortality rate of 0.5%, in elderly patients. It avoids worsening and clears virus persistence and contagiosity in most cases. “
@bipod
As Mr Hancock was trumpeting a vaccine yesterday, we are in safe hands then. although it would seem that any vaccine that has had so little testing might be one I’ll let others try first.
Nobody is contemplating lockdown until a real vaccine has been made, the requirement now is to reduce the numbers of those infected to a manageable level and introduce test, trace and isolate which should have happened in the first place. This does not eradicate the virus but keeps the deaths as low as possible whilst businesses start to re-open and hopefully a vaccine is produced in a reasonable timescale.
Will it work, it should unless we maintain our laissez-faire attitude to border controls or a vaccine never appears and we don’t develop immunity.
On the plus side for you is once we have killed of the over 60’s then the death rate will drop dramatically, it will be a bit like Logan’s Run but with over 60’s rather than 30’s.
circium
There was an extensive discussion on Newsnight, last week I think, about ventilators being, in quite a number of cases, a contributor to death rather than an aid to the patient.
All very interesting.
@jfngw
“Nobody is contemplating (ending sic) lockdown until a real vaccine has been made, the requirement now is to reduce the numbers of those infected to a manageable level and introduce test, trace and isolate which should have happened in the first place. This does not eradicate the virus but keeps the deaths as low as possible whilst businesses start to re-open and hopefully a vaccine is produced in a reasonable timescale.”
Most sensible comment I’ve read here for a while and one I totally agree with.
Test, trace, and isolate, together with maintaining social distancing as far is it is possible is the only way to return to some semblance of normality until a working vaccine has been developed.
It will take a bit of time yet to get up to the number of tests required but is surely that is an order of magnitude greater than we are capable of right now.
This has to be the priority, get the test numbers up and the tracing fully operational. I believe that is the only way we know of to fight this pandemic, at least for now.
cirsium said @ front line staff from being overwhelmed by viral overload. It is criminal negligence sending staff into work without adequate protection.
Yes, the viral load has been discovered to ba a big issue.
The young fit healthy Chinese doctor dieing of Covid set alarm bells off.
I think he was tubed so that may have been a factor, though have heard of some cases where intubation on younger people has seemingly worked by preventing organ failure.
Noticed early on in China anyone on front line had full disposable suits and visors on.
Here, gov guidelines on ppe are far less protective, even allowing short sleeves in A&E and admissions in some cases, and probably care homes.
Criminal negligence indeed.
One other worrying thing is, as NS, alluded to in address, there are findings from China (Harbin, I think), that there are thought to be over 20 strains/mutations of Covid19 already, with differing severity.
This, if true could also have implications for suitable treatments, and potential vaccine efficacy.
This might be worth a peek at peeps, if only the Executive Summary. 😉
Understanding Citizens’ Vulnerabilities to Disinformation and Data-Driven Propaganda
https://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/JRC116009/understanding_citizens_vulnerabilities_to_disinformation.pdf
A small thing that niggles me about the PPE shortage is that we’re talking mask, visors, gloves and ‘maybe’ suits… The stuff costs pence to make, and I’m curious how some of it would even have a shelf life. It’s fabric.
If you need to stockpile anything, I reckon PPE is just about as easy as it gets. It’s not even heavy to lift, yet apparently 1 plane load is the difference between coping and catastrophe.
Can we not find approximately one plane load, or hell, let’s be reckless, two plane loads worth of warehouse storage where we can keep a stash of masks, gloves and aprons so we’re ready for this if it ever happens again?
Provided we don’t tell Westminster where it is, we’ll be sorted.
So the Germans are beginning vaccine trials today – MEIN GOTT!
How dare those evil Germans show up the British Tory twats. Evil foreigners!!!
On anther note about evil Johnny foreigners it seems that those evil Russians are curing Coronavirus victims with blood transfusions from those that recovered from it.
No doubt blood transfusions are being reserved here for Royal Parasites and other Brit Tory Cunts.
P.S I am of to read my Commando comics. I already read my 2000AD collection during the lock down.
@Breeks
I don’t think it’s the cost but the quantity, I read a article I found linked to on twitter yesterday (I’ve not included it as I have no idea if I could find it again) that the NHS used 1 billion pieces of PPE a month (I think it was a month but this is from memory so not 100% reliable).
The decision in the eighties to allow our textile manufacturing capacity to pretty much disappear is now coming home to roost. The BBC like to run the stories of small groups producing around 8,000 items but this is a drop in the ocean to what is required. Nothing against those putting in some effort but we need to get real, this requires real manufacturing capability.
@ Myself ‘This, if true could also have implications for suitable treatments, and potential vaccine efficacy’
Add effective testing to that list.
Figures today from BBC websites: + UK Total from the Sun.
Scotland…….today…77……Total……1062
Wales……….today…15……Total…….624
England……..today..665……Total…..16272
N. Ireland…..today..(no figures)
———————————————
UK………….today..759……Total*…18100 Sun*
No UK total from the BBC showing.
Anyone know if the Church of Scotland still supports British nationalism, or do they support the principle of universal human rights? Are they agents of English Torydum and right-wing populism, or are they agents of the Moral Law?
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/dial.12450
Cirsium
I’ll repeat my posting from this morning.
Some on here mentioned hydroxychloroquine as a possible defence against the virus.
A preliminary look – stress preliminary – has not revealed anything medically worthwhile.
http://archive.is/uZWOX
Lessons of the first post-Corbyn YouGov poll?
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/
AYE
An Oxford team is starting human vaccine trials tomorrow.
This press conference from No 10 is unbelievably cringeworthy. A general on now talking of “Command and Control” the 77th brigade and “defending the homeland”.
He’s immensely proud of the effort to defeat and combat this virus.
What a farce, this government have now totally lost the plot.
Useful summary as of yesterday.
Here are the drugs, vaccines and therapies in development to tackle COVID-19
http://archive.is/lv1Xx
By confining their legal perspective to that defined through British constitutional practice, the Scottish government are unable to defend the human rights of those living in Scotland. This legal parochialism must stop. British constitutional legal practice fails to respect the human rights of those living in Scotland, so I suggest the Scottish government stops being subservient to law that holds inadequate moral authority.
A Common Law of Human Rights:
History, Humanity and Dignity
https://www.matrixlaw.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Friedman_FINAL_-from-2016_EHRLR_Issue_4_Print-ULTRA.pdf
What has England got to be proud about ??? I mean in their past they have killed million of Irish Scots and Welsh their museums are full of stolen artefacts from all over the world they have robbed and caused chaos all over the world I can’t honestly see anything to be proud about I am not being unkind or do I wish to offend anyone and I admit that England was aided and abetted in these things by some Scots and I certainly do not include the present day ordinary English people who were not even born in those times or can be held to blame but I cannot honestly see what there is to be proud about
Think it’s gonna be a more than one drink evening after reading this tweet trail.
https://twitter.com/RobertJSomynne/status/1252941380328009731
And the Scots from a kneeling position meekly murmured under their breath so not to annoy anybody:
What do we want? – A Magnolia Scotland!
When do we want it? – Not really bothered…
Jings!
A hack ask if British vaccine will be for British victims if the Oxford project breaks through?
Hmmm? Now let me thinks about that for a minute. 🙂
Witty pessimistic about a ‘magic bullet’ within the next year. 🙁
Ayeright@5.16
I heard that ….. and decided I really ought to stand to attention and sing ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ as a subtle backdrop to what the man was saying…. it seemed so appropriate.
Couldn’t believe it when he mentioned the 77th Brigade and how they are removing false news but he forgot to mention the work that they are doing on this website, so I knew it was all propaganda.
Definitely sounded like a person who is trying to justify what they have done when they know that they are missing out the thing they are supposed to have done.
Had the misfortune to hear today’s Hancock’s Half Hour from Hell at teatime tonight and was surprised to hear one of his talking bookends referring to the sterling work being done by 77 Brigade to counter the mis/disinformation on the internet about the virus.
Is this the first time the Tories have referred to this wee cadre in an official announcement?
Thank God we have the MSM to keep us on the cyber straight and narrow. Last night one of the embedded “journalists” on HHHoH asked a deranged question about China and as an agent of the whole crisis.
And the order came: Deflect, deflect, deflect…
Bloody comedian this wumen
https://twitter.com/RuthDavidsonMSP/status/1252907754555084801
BBC tv live news just said said that 654 people have died in Scottish care homes ‘last week’.
What a whopper! Should have been in Total!
Auntie shurley shome mishtake you lying old bat. 🙁 🙁
……………………………………………………….
From BBC Scottish website today:
The number of deaths linked to the virus in care homes has more than doubled in a week, from 237 to 537.
Seriously how thick are these journalists ? Of all the plethora of questions they could have asked-they ask this!
https://twitter.com/LydiaReidYES2/status/1252978782719410176
Tinto Chiel 6.07
You wrote “ …. and was surprised to hear one of his talking bookends referring to the sterling work being done by 77 Brigade to counter the mis/disinformation on the internet…”
It is so good to hear that one’s work is recognised at the highest levels!
@callmedave
They even got that 654 people wrong. The total number of deaths in care homes up to the 19th of April is 537. That’s all deaths as per this weeks report from the NRS.
No surprise to me though that they would either get it wrong due to severe incompetence or more likely just deliberately lie. The BBC in Scotland take their lead from their boss, the liar in chief Johnson and the rest of his cabinet liars.
Don’t expect things to change at BBC Scotland anytime…ever!
Just watched STV propaganda news and I think
They missed how they accidentally shot their
English Tory Masters in the foot.
The Smith Family from Aberdeen were travelling with their young kids
And found themselves Stranded by the virus high up in the Himalayan mountains.
they are coping well with very basic amenities and astounding views.
Here it comes-
The only time they left the small remote village was to go for a family Corona Test!
Foreign families stuck in the back of beyond have all had Corona Tests
And Consultants, Doctors and Nurses in Tory controlled London are dying for the
Lack of testing and PPE?
Any Troll Unionist from want a go at how tests are available everywhere except the corrupt UK.
“Sensibledave says:
22 April, 2020 at 6:29 pm
Tinto Chiel 6.07
You wrote “ …. and was surprised to hear one of his talking bookends referring to the sterling work being done by 77 Brigade to counter the mis/disinformation on the internet…”
It is so good to hear that one’s work is recognised at the highest levels!”
Och, Insensate Dave, the banter! Confession is good for the soul.
And my work here is done…..
Still obsessing over death and hiding under your beds?I suppose that’s the only thrill you old ones get these days.
“Anyone know if the Church of Scotland still supports British nationalism, ”
CameronB.
You know during William Wallace’s time, when he practised his guerrilla warfare on the occupying forces of Eward Ist, he could only do so with the help of the church, bishops such as Wishart and other aided Wallace, mainly because Edward wanted to replace them with English clergy.
The same applies to Good King Robert, without the aid of his good friend bishop Lamberton and others, The Bruce would’ve found it even more diffucult to hit and run Edward Ist and Edward II superior forces.
I can’t say though that I’ve heard the church whatever denomination openly back Scottish independence, though I could be wrong. Maybe creeping Anglicisation has rendered the Scottish clery inert once and for all.
ITN did one on Scotland’s care home problem – pity they don’t mind their own business intit.
Cmo for england Whitty says likely socially disruptive measures likely till end of the year.
If even the herd immunity purveyors are admitting to that, then presume it will likely be even worse.
Seriously ill patient suffering from Covid-19 now being turned away from Nightingale hospital in London due to lack of nurses.
Well done to the Tories for kicking out immigrant nurses and for running down their NHS to the point it has no nurses available to tend patients.
http://archive.fo/i83fb
Republicofscotland
IMHO, the burden of proof is on the Church of Scotland, as to whether they care more for “nationalist tradition” than Scotland’s future. They came out in favour of yoonyawn in 2014, so they can’t deny they are political. Perhaps they simply lack empathy with Scottishness?
@Iain Mor,
`On anther note about evil Johnny foreigners it seems that those evil Russians are curing Coronavirus victims with blood transfusions from those that recovered from it.`
i posted this on Wings 10 days ago,
Scot Finlayson says:
13 April, 2020 at 9:13 am
`Would a blood transfusion from someone that has had and survived the virus maybe help in someone going through the virus,
just a thought.`
The Kirk is part of the Scottish Establishment.
The Scottish Establishment is just the British Establishment with a lick of tartan paint.
Both Establishments favour the status quo.
In conversation with our former Minister I brought up the fact that Scotland was rewarded for it’s loyalty to Britain in 2014 by being dragged out the EU just two years later, despite nearly two-thirds in Scotland voting to Remain.
I’ve never witnessed such a stampede of tumbleweed before or since.
Church Of Scotland was neutral in 2014
Some of its members were openly pro-independence.
http://archive.is/VvL9F
This neutrality was reaffirmed in 2017
http://archive.is/r2gxf
Though infamous serial election-loser Murdo Fraser was really cheesed that the reaffirmation did not explicitly condemn the idea of indyref2.
https://www.churchofscotland.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/38451/Press_statement_by_Murdo_Fraser_MSP.pdf
He wrote this yesterday, so presume reference to Newsnight last night, iplayer will have it ah think:
Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
21 hours ago, 15 tweets, 3 min read
‘Spent the day talking to PPE suppliers/medical staff
The picture which emerges is an English procurement system which has major issues at both national and local level
Not all these problems began during this crisis, some seeds sown a v long time ago
This is what’s happening
First though we need to remember that not everywhere has problems
We need to remember that those which do don’t have problems in everything
and that the govt is right there is a huge demand surge
That said… there’s no getting away from it, talk to PPE suppliers about the English NHS procurement system and they groan
It’s a problem at the both national and local level
At the local level, we now have what you might say is an absurd situation where NHS trusts are competing against each other, sometimes in price terms, to secure PPE.
The situ in England doubtless made worse by Lansley reforms of 2012 Trusts now a patchwork of sovereign bodies.
Spoke to Colin Cram, procurement expert: “bottom line is NHS England’s procurement processes are in total chaos, have been for 10 years and now people are dying because of it. Scotland/ Wales don’t have the same problem, nothing to do with size, they’re just better organised.”
Then there’s local bureaucracy. Suppliers want payment upfront and need decisions straight away, authorisation processes in various trusts means that’s impossible – it often has to go through a chain of people which takes days, so they keep missing the opportunity to buy more
There is and has been some centralisation because of this crisis.
But manufacturers haven’t had much luck there either
Some talk of a Whitehall system which is opaque and unresponsive
Spoke to a supplier today who was in position to offer 10 million facemasks to NHS
He tried govt email, didn’t hear back
Tried again, didn’t hear back
Got in touch with his MP, he put him in touch with DHSC directly
Nothing
In the end it was too late, contract went abroad
I spoke to several Welsh firms who have refashioned what they do and are now successfully supplying Welsh NHS
They’re keen to land English orders but responsiveness slower from UK govt
Only hearing from UK govt now, weeks after starting Welsh supplies
Not all hunky dory in Scotland/Wales and England obviously but greater centralisation in S/W and a streamlined procurement system in those places are a couple of the reasons why they haven’t downgraded PPE advice and England has
Once again- some hospitals don’t have a problem. In those which do, staff feel bleak. They say they’re being asked to choose between their own safety and their patients’.
Interestingly some I spoke to have come to dislike the talk of them as “heroes/angels” for this reason
Even worse for those in social care who don’t have the loud voices of the doctors/nurses.
Worse, I’ve been told that some care home managers are telling staff not to use PPE because it “interferes” with their duties/they want to stockpile.
medical staff in England feel let down by Public Health England/govt, not just because they’ve changed the advice but because they do so whilst maintaining that downgraded PPE advice is definitely safe: “How can they possibly know that? And if so, why was it higher in 1st place?”
Lots more on this on tonight’s @BBCNewsnight-BBC2, 10.45pm
One other thing- fraud. The “chaos” as Cram puts it in English procurement, means trusts are becoming vulnerable to fraud and dodgy companies selling goods which aren’t up to spec or which are never delivered. quality control is much weaker because of the decentralised model.’
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1252701841135226880.html
Scot Finlayson@7.07
Hi Scot,
If you look back to your post, you will find my wife gave you an answer to the idea.
mike cassidy
Sorry, I thought their support of the yoonyawn was official.
mike cassidy
Just to be clear, I’m apologizing not doubting you. 😉
Murder Fraser church is of the orange variety.We know where they stand.
Just remind Murder that King William of Orange was an ally of the Pope!
That usually gets them spitting bullets.Funny old world back then.
The WHO, currently airing orwellesque ads on tv, headed by this man, an unreconstructed, old style Marxist, wants you to stay home.
https://www.opride.com/2017/05/11/case-director-general-candidate-tedros-adhanom/
Oops!
Ottomanboi
The WHO might not be perfect but the precautionary principle and the public-health ethics they promote, IS SOUND ADVICE.
The ethical basis of the precautionary principle in health care decision-making
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7750085_The_ethical_basis_of_the_precautionary_principle_in_health_care_decision-making
@robertknight
In a game of pontoon Scotland could be dealt an opening pair of cards that add up to ten, and in the next round still shit itself and stick.
One can hope that this lurgy situation might snap folk out of their risk averse and un-aspirational stupors.
Mind the Lesley Riddoch / Phantom Power “Nation” film on Iceland about people that live on an active volcano, so they just crack on with things because their country might be engulfed in hot ash or lava at any moment.
Aye, a bit more motivation and dynamism wouldn’t go a miss from the canny Scots, but the dourness is strong in most I meet and I could see them happily accept losing their EU Citizenship with all that offers because: “Well, we cannae go oot noo anyways”.
Remember that evil organisation with the “one world philosophy”, of universal human rights and natural law?
World Commission on the Ethics of Scientific Knowledge and Technology
The Precautionary Principle
https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000139578
On the Scottish church, its interesting to note that it was the Scottish parliament that helped push through the reformation in Scotland, as our nobility, fell in line with Englands faith, just at a time when Catholic Mary Queen of Scots, not much later, landed at Leith from France after the untimely death of her sixteen year old husband and King of France, Francis II.
John Knox and Queen Mary, who signed her name in the French version all her life Marie, would go on to have several moral, and religious jousts with Knox. Mary would have to practice her Catholic faith in private.
Many Scottish magnates,tolerated a Catholic queen in Scotland, but they also reported her activities to Cecil, Queen Elizabeth Ist’s chief advisor, she and Mary were cousins.
Of course Mary’s main objective wasn’t to be queen of a poor country on the fringes of Europe, no Mary’s plan was to be, that, one day she would succeed Queen Elizabeth the Ist of England, but unknowns to her the English Protestant parliament didn’t want a Catholic queen as successor.
If I were to try and assess Scotland’s current predicament through the critical lens of “The Lego Movie”, Scotland is “Emmet”, Westminster is Lord Business, and British constitutionalism the “Kragle”. Emmet needs to find the “Piece of Resistance” that will prevent the Kragle from destroying the potential for social change.
IMHO, the “Piece of Resistance” that Scotland needs to find, is a respect for the jurisprudence of international law. Just my opinion. 😉
@ K1 – the English NHS is hopelessly fragmented and, from what I can gather, the professional medical staff have lost all control to managers who haven’t a clue what’s essential. Lambs to the slaughter of American private health corporations.
Thanks for the tip on pulse oximeters. After hearing a sad story on the R4 PM news about how people are dying of hypoxia rather than pneumonia I got on to Amazon and ordered one. Well it can’t do any harm!
Scot finlayson 7.07pm. It was in the guardian 2 days ago about the NHS trialling this.
anyone going stir crazy and needs a bit of the outdoors, bbc scotland, of all places, has an excellent film on hamish mcinnes
– a remarkable man who did extraordinary things, in a seeming matter of fact manner; wrote 40 books, including “the book” on mountain rescue, invented the modern ice axe, climbed the himalayas, did many films, inc. the eiger sanction with eastwood; but the biggest part of it all, not adding to his own legend, but saving lives on the mountains
mary marquis and darlinda make an appearance
mcinnes seems without vanity or ego, which is rare in a man with genuine achievements
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000hp3m/final-ascent-the-legend-of-hamish-macinnes
@Gary45%,
yes i remember,
we can share the Nobel prize for saving the world 🙂
@Mike d,
they must read Wings.
Blinkin blimeyness! – this thread is going to go 1000+ – when was the last time that happened?
😉
This is where the good intelligence is, so they’d be wise to avoid other sources of bad intelligence. 😉
Judging Civil Justice
https://socialsciences.exeter.ac.uk/media/universityofexeter/collegeofsocialsciencesandinternationalstudies/lawimages/hamlyntrust/Genn_judging_civil_justice.pdf
I do not think that all UKers and their lackies who infect this site are daft , stupid or glaikit . Few of them though are as smart as they think . The self belief that is ingrained in an education founded on rhetoric and sophism produces primarily people fluent in bullshit and obfuscation. This practice in deceit is millennia old and the template they work from . It has served them well and is their only method of interaction.
The fundamental disconnect from reality is not important when aligned with a FPTP voting system that requires only those who can be fooled all of the time to support their self serving against the interests of the majority politics. More than 70% of the electorate DIDN’T vote for this majority UKers government. They know and understand this is all that matters to them . The problems for them arise as the majority who will no longer be fooled gain purchase in calling them out for their dishonesty.
That’s why we have the increasing desperation we witness here from the resident UKers intent on using any trick in the textbook to muddy waters and avoid any accountability of their masters.
Facts have little resonance with many of them as their wishes are all that matters.
Consider just a single difference between the 2014 Independence vote and the Brexit vote. It may have had a decisive effect on both . Why were EU nationals in the UK not afforded in the Brexit vote the right they had in Scotland’s referendum to vote ? I know why, and most people here know why but don’t expect the UKers will admit it . That’s before any mention is made of other machinations deployed in the two campaigns.
I will try to eschew direct interaction with these deviants on here if possible, though I will note their dishonesty with perhaps a wee ponder as to wether each falsehood is due to ignorance or just malicious.
Best wishes to all non-UKers on here .
@John D –
Best wishes to you too sah!
😉
Breeks
Looks to me like the Establishment, their lackeys in the MSM and their allies within the SNP are gearing up for the time when they will be ruining a coordinated
GOOD NATIONALIST – BAD NATIONALIST campaign.
The “goodies” of course being the devolutionists who put multi-cultural and gender-fluid, etc issues ahead of independence.
This is how in the UK, they have managed to keep politicians who threatened to put the needs of the many ahead of the greed of the few away from the leavers of power for decades, despite the almost mind-boggling disparity between the haves and the have-nots, both in numbers and in possessions.
The Independence Movement is no longer a bunch of fringe loonies, shouting from the sidelines, we have become a hoard of barbarians, gathering outside their gates.
The advances we have made in the last twenty years, have shown them that their old tactics were failing and that if they want to stay ahead of the game they must try something new against us.
What better way, than the tied and trusted method they have successfully employed against the Labour Party, keeping socialism at bay for the better part of One Hundred Years.
It is vitally important that we do not, by our own actions, play into their hands … Nor must we provide the “fifth columnists” with a smokescreen to sow their seeds of discord behind.