The greater good
Posted on
April 18, 2020 by
Chris Cairns
1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks 
-
18 04 20 08:57
The greater good | speymouth
Ignored
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks
-
About
Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)
-
Recent Posts
- 05-07
- 05-06
- 05-05
- 05-04
- 05-02
- 04-29
- 04-29
- 04-29
- 04-28
- 04-27
- 04-27
- 04-26
- 04-26
- 04-25
- 04-25
- 04-25
- 04-24
- 04-24
- 04-22
- 04-20
Wings Over ScotlandA tall tale
Wee Books
Video
Probably a robbery
Transphobia
There will be no public enquiry, The last refuge of the Scoundrel will be imposed . . The Official Secrets Act.
About sums it up.
Nice one Chris!
Starlaw quite right but surely the court of public opinion will be enough to nail them – although bojo will play the ‘I nearly gave my life for my country’ card forgetting he took 20,000 lives by not funding the nhs or the poor – it was only when pals in business began to suffer we got action – lest we forget.
Excellent cartoon. Totally nails things. The entire Tory cabinet of useless clowns is culpable for multiple unnecessary deaths of good people.
But the tame media will NEVER hold them to account.
Instead of managing the COVID 19 response, these Tory clowns spend their days managing soundbites and propaganda. Not one of them in full charge of their cabinet brief. Not one.
It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.
? George Orwell, 1984
Must be the first government in history to have so many different members giving daily updates due to their own failings in not following their own covid-19 advice!!
I see on the news that an estimated 7,500 have died with the virus
In UK Nursing Homes.
If you add this number to the hospital and at home deaths Bojoland
Can beat Italy’s disastrous death total.
Bojo’s Lying Circus now instructing medical staff to reused gowns
That are likely to be contaminated?
Just like in world war 1 when Westminster told the plebs to run at banks
Of enemy machine gun posts across open ground or have a bullet put in
Your head by your Captain.
I also see Americans ignoring social distancing as they gather to protest against
Restrictions on their right to die of stupidity and the virus.
Trump with the worlds highest daily death rates says it’s just about over?
He really needs to fool the gullible into thinking it’s over and that he could be
Voted in again.
Sad thing is it’s the wealthiest side who have been winning all recent elections.
Trump and Bojo in power for another 4 years.
They are the political equivalent of Jedward.
Great cartoon Chris. Sad thing is it’s true of the AS scandal too.
Chris, You’ve so much got this so spot on.
A crying shame that a country like Scotland is politically tied to these rogues.
The SGs hands are so tied in all this.
A free Scotland could have done much more to protect its people.
Nicola and the Scottish NHS are persevering in a situation not of their making.
They deserve 100% support from us all.
My wife advised that a British- Code name for England, Airways
Passenger plane had returned from China with PPE in the seats?
Is this yet another Tory scam to scratch the backs of Tory Party supporters?
Why on earth wouldn’t they use a military or cargo plane that can be loaded
With pallets on fork lift trucks?
Anyone ever think about a possibility of gathering uses gowns and visors
and having them soaked in the strongest disinfectants to ensure any traces
If virus are killed off? The could be washed and dried normally there after.
Local petrol stations have had rental washing machines install in 2 days
How about doing this at hospitals?
I see some PPE Aprons are just thin plastic.
Couldn’t the companies who make robust bin and
Rubble bags not have templates made to produce these
Aprons?
Just seen an 8 year old girl making PPE Visors on her
Parents 3D printer.
The crown must be made on the printer and the visor
Itself is just clear acetate sheets available in any office supplies
Company. A hole punch on the sheets allows it to be attached securely
To the crown.
The look very professional and the NHS are using them!
An 8 year old appears to have a great logistical mind than the entire
Tory Party and certainly more productive.
Autarky, a term we might be hearing a lot as Globalist Capitalism and its propagandists head for the scrap heap.
A truly independent entity is an essentially self-sufficient entity, is it not?
And then there’s this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Is_Beautiful
Before the SNP went all globalized the idea had not a few fans among the faithful.
This paradigm is truly in shift mode.
Thank goodness for the intelligent protesters in the US who see through this lockdown disaster and are increasingly fighting back.
Here I think even the Tory government were taken aback at the levels of gullibility in the UK population and are now quietly preparing for a climb down.
Tories are simply intellectually and ideologically opposed to the principle of equality. “Herd immunity” is pure social Darwinism and incompatible with best-practice standards in public health. Criminal prosecutions are needed, but are unlikely in an age of neo-liberal justice.
Did Neoliberalism and Austerity Cause Brexit? Yes.
https://economicsociology.org/2018/08/14/did-neoliberalism-and-austerity-cause-brexit-yes/
I’m afraid the cartoon message is just rubbish.
Scotland has its own Health Service with all its own highly paid officials, same as England.
In fact the CMO was forced to resign.
Sorry, just the usual grievance nonsense.
All I can say is, thank god for the 55% in 2014.
They like to refer to themselves as the UK government in Scotland but in reality they are the English government in Scotland, the Tories haven’t been elected in Scotland since 1955, they are imposed not chosen by Scots.
You may have noticed previously I took 3 nations
With populations greater than the UKs and added
Their combined Corona Death totals to get a number
Lower than the UK’s.
I now see that I can Also add in another 3 countries that
Have populations similar to Scotland’s, Norway, Denmark and
Finland and still see this 6 Nation Death Tally lower than the
Tory UK murder by neglect total.
Get your wee flags ready to wave Dave & Pete!
Your union is number one in Incompetance.
J Galt
You are correct and Trump is supporting the protesters although he doesn’t have the power – it’s in the hands of the Governors.
Wonder what NS’s position is?
Probably more pro lockdown than BOJO.
So, will those Wingers that support the lockdown, together with most citizens of Scotland, England, Wales and NI, express their views with respect to the somewhat nasty cartoon?
In addition, as I have asked before BUT NO ONE had the balls to respond, could those that oppose the current lockdown, describe their favoured strategy, it’s impact on the NHS and the death rate they anticipate please.
I won’t hold my breath.
Effijy
If Scotland is doing so well with the SNHS, when do you expect Nicola to ease the restrictions?
Remember, she doesn’t need to follow Westminster
@Pete
Yes she does in many respects. As the compensation to companies the payment of staff laid off all comes from borrowing that is reserved to Westminster, Holyrood as very little leeway in what it can vary. They could not mitigate a long shutdown whilst still in the UK,so your hint that independence is the best option I agree with.
I don’t think dave is clever enough to appreciate we would not be facing the same level of crises, if it wasn’t for austerity and Tory incompetence. Dave appears to have little common sense and clearly lacks a moral compass. That’s English Torydum for you folks.
Any chance that the Rev could put god save the queen on in the background on a permanent loop. That way certain posters will be required to stand to attention, saluting rather than posting shite on here.
CBB
Ah the classic response from someone with no ideas … “we shouldn’t start from here”!
Share your brilliance, tell us what we should do.
I’m waiting.
Jfngw
If Scotland is doing so well and Nicola eases the lockdown earlier than the RUK, she can pocket the Barnett consequentials without paying out so much.
Win win for Scotland.
Only thing is, she doesn’t have the ‘balls’.
@sensibledave
We would have not needed such a long lockdown, or possibly any, if we had gone with the countries that tested, traced and isolated whilst controlling their border entry points. Being an island this should have been an easier task for the UK than many countries with many physical borders. But we went with the route to what will likely be the highest death toll in Europe.
But glad you are coming to your senses ans seeing independence as the better option as it’s the only way we could manage things differently.
Effigy
What’s up Effy? Not up to having your views challenged? I am guessing you prefer it when you write something inane/stupid/vindictive/wrong … and the home crowd all cheer?
Why don’t you give us an alternate strategy for dealing with cv19!
@Pete
You are a terrible troll, at least be inventive, just posting mince is a bit pathetic.
Sensible Sweden, still largely and bravely holding out against the hysteria.
Sweden should therefore be a death ridden wasteland – it isn’t, they’re doing no worse than us.
Neighbours – the Netherlands and Belgium, Belgium – total lockdown, the Netherlands – less strict lockdown – right next to each other. Who is worst off for deaths – Belgium.
Effigy
… so, to summarise, your strategy for resolving the crisis is … time travel. “We shouldn’t be starting from here”. That’s your strategy?
Sensibledave
You’re not going to try and defend criminal negligence, are you? That would simply prove your partisan and illiberal character. Well, you are a man of the right.
Austerity caused Brexit
https://voxeu.org/article/austerity-caused-brexit
Ok. So Galt pokes his head above the parapet.
He doesn’t actually promote a solution, he points to an alternative methodology in Sweden (without openly nailing his flag to that mast).
Galt, are you suggesting that the UK should stop the lock down? Talk us through your anticipated impact on the NHS in terms of hospitalisation, ICU requirements and anticipated death rate. Just as an aside, could you give us a list of the scientists/organisations that you are relying upon to support the strategy … just so we can judge it from a scientific point of view.
CBB
… I’m still waiting Cammy. Show us the way!
… you’ve got nothing Cammy .. except vacuous hot air (who knew that was possible?)
J Galt
Sweden don’t look that sensible compared to their neighbours Norway and Finland where the death toll is much smaller. It’s more complex than just lockdown how this spreads, highly populated places with enclosed public transport like the underground will fair worse, that’s why London has been hit badly. Other countries have different customs regarding socialising, possibly why it spread so much in Spain/Italy.
It really needs some proper investigation why the rate in different countries are happening, I can’t see the worst affected countries governments being too keen on that though.
I think we should jail those responsible for turning a crises into a disaster. You don’t appear to agree. This suggests you’re a bit of a bigoted wank.
The shrinking state? Understanding the assault on the public sector
https://academic.oup.com/cjres/article/11/3/389/5146445
Absolutely bang on Chris.
This country that they call the U.K. is a fucking shit heap. Email just leaked revealed that NHS will be short of plastic gowns for months. The great United Kingdom short of fucking plastic gowns with these fucking unelected Tory bastards like Raab running off at the mouth spouting posh every evening.
One of the world’s economic super power and it can’t get plastic gowns?
We should do these bastards. We need to tuck them before they fuck us. This was their plan to save the economy.
Apologies for the swearing. But I for one have a right not to be screwed by these incompetent greedy Tory bastards.
I wonder if Union Jack and Jaikie the Carlot will be demanding the Scottish Government is in “lockstep” with NHS England and will change its PPE advice so that single use items become multiple use items?
Pete says:
18 April, 2020 at 9:24 am
Effijy
If Scotland is doing so well with the SNHS, when do you expect Nicola to ease the restrictions?
Remember, she doesn’t need to follow Westminster
Do you have a hearing problem? She has said time and time again at her press briefings that she will be guided by the medical and scientific advice.
Good one Chris, and probably very true.
Regarding exiting the lockdown, Professor Anthony Costello, hints at parts of the UK, could come out of lockdown before others, London, will not, which he adds the English government left it far too long to lock it down.
Speaking at the same venue English Health secretary Matt Hancock said, it would be better to lift the lockdown as whole at the same time over the UK, citing we don’t want to damage the national unity we have seen.
What national unity, does he mean the withholding of PPE, or a Westminster peer and prince flee to Scotland, one with the virus, the other possibly infecting a nearby community with it.
There is no unity the union is on its last legs, and after the shambolic life costing way the British government has dealt with this pandemic, those legs will be folding in the coming years, if Scots have any sense at all.
Wings has become the overflow from the Scotsman and Herald letters page.As these publications go down the pan,Wings becomes the goto place for Unionist rabble rousers.
I find it so heartening that they abuse their ‘enemy’ by being the cuckoo in their nest.
‘Cuckoo’ is so appropriate for Pete and his pals.
Super cartoon with a spot-on message. Saying what needs said.
As for many BTL comments, as is always the case now, it quickly becomes BritNats over Scotland with a deflection campaign to move discussion away from the main message.
Meanwhile what to make of the insignificant Tory branch manager in Scotlands wild outburst that the Tories have declared war on their greatest propaganda asset the BBC.
Is this a ruse to draw independence supporters back into the nefarious web of the British state broadcaster. Or is the failed car salemans ego so engulfing that he feels that the unionist BBC should be reporting every word that exits on the edge of his forked tongue.
I can only suggest that Sturgeons airtime, in which I’d imagine her stock and her partys stock has risen dramatically, due to her handling of this pandemic, is seriously irking the egotistical failed salesman and branch manager of the Scottish Tory outpost.
Nailed it.
Genius.
Nice One.
We. Have been told to isolate to stop the virus from spreading but there are still flights coming in to Heathrow Fromall over with no checks in place why ??? It’s like trying to secure your home with locks and alarms but leaving the back door open crazy .
Pete & Simple Dave
Is this Boris Johnson or not?
Oh my giddy aunt
https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1251095928234283008
Oxford university is confident (80% worth) it will have a vaccine that will prevent you from catching Covid-19 by September. Trials are set to begin on the vaccine next week.
They expect one million doses of the vaccine to be available by then, a good start but more than one million are needed.
Blair Paterson
Disjointed policy and implementation are characteristics of a neo-liberal approach to government. Westminster is ensnared in an entrenchment of neo-liberalism and neo-statism, and appears to have no concern for breaking the downward spiral of state decline.
A Permanent Revolution?: Neo-Liberalism and British Politics
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/cbp/centre-activities/past-events/neolibworkshop/papers.aspx
And you thought this was all about a wee virus.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/towards-a-new-world-order-the-global-debt-crisis-and-the-privatization-of-the-state/5709755
Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim: The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate.
(Bertrand Russell)
This is a very exciting time in the world of information. It`s not just that the personal computer has come along as a great tool. The whole pace of business is moving faster. Globalization is forcing companies to do things in new ways.
(Bill Gates)
…. still no strategy from anyone!
Still waiting.
This is extremely important on the indy front, but it has been paused for now due to the pandemic.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18388330.court-case-westminster-approval-indyref2-delayed/
Idiot Dave,
Get the matron to fasten the sleeves of your white jacket
at the back.
You don’t seem able to read or do joined up thinking.
In an interview, Professor Johan Giesecke, one of the world’s most senior epidemiologists, who is an advisor to the Swedish Government (he hired Anders Tegnell who is currently directing Sweden’s strategy) laid out Sweden’s thinking …
The flattening of the curve we are seeing is due to the most vulnerable dying first as much as the lockdown
UK policy on lockdown and in other European countries is not evidence-based
The correct policy is to protect the old and the frail only
This will eventually lead to herd immunity as a “by-product”
The initial UK response, before the “180 degree U-turn”, was better
The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and he has never seen an unpublished, non-peer-reviewed paper have so much policy impact
Is dismissive of the 510,000 figure that was predicted if mitigation measures were not implemented
The Imperial College paper was much too pessimistic and did not factor in the now much increased ICU capacity
Any such models are a dubious basis for public policy anyway, taking no account of real world specifics
The results will eventually be similar for all countries
Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people.
The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 will in all likelihood turn out to be in the region of 0.1%
At least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden will likely be shown to have already had the disease when mass antibody testing becomes available.
… that is their policy based upon their reading of the science. I understand it.
We will not know which strategy was best for a year or so when the crisis has run its full course in each country.
Neo-liberalism is simply not compatible with a precautionary approach to public health, as it erodes critical capital and the capacity for responsive flexibility.
Critical Infrastructures and
Disaster Risk Reduction
(in the Context of Natural Hazards)
https://nidm.gov.in/PDF/modules/cric%20infra.pdf
Sensibledave,
Professor Giesecke is correct. It seems a logical and reasonable strategy.
I doubt dave has a sufficient knowledge base to be so prescriptive over such a critical issue. This suggest he lacks ethical perspective and has a cavalier attitude towards moral principles. He is a Tory after all. 😉
How Many Principles for Public Health Ethics?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2804997/
Famous15
My thoughts entirely.
The job and art of the troll is not to ask probing questions or point out hypocrisy or duplicity, it is to make stupid, inaccurate off topic comments that people naturally rise to, and the debate goes south in a nonsensical circular discussion.
Half a dozen posts in we have nut citing AS – the mark and comment of a troll.
That covered, the scandal brewing that emanates from Westminster on C19 is staggering and frightening. The cover up by the press equally so. Remember the coverage of Italy when they had 300 deaths per day. The bbc and uk press were looking down their noses tut tutting how horrid, it could not happen here. Aye right, 10+ years into austerity and all the uk can do is clap like a flightless hapless bird.
Then we have the missed opportunities of procurement with the EU on PPE, ventilators and test kits, all missed on the dogma of brexit.
Contrast the performance of our FM with multiple uk cabinet members. The FM is out there every day having to make dreadful announcements whilst being human empathetic, open, honest and accountable. Then we have the weasels of Rabb, Gove, Hancock and Patel, dismissive, patronising and completely dishonest.
There is no comparison between a class act and a box of fools out of their depth!
Let’s hope this blog could be rescued and return to what it was. Hark back to the days when it exposed the uk for what it was. I’d never expect nor demand blind obedience to the SNP, what I would expect is to utilise it and respect it for what it is, the vehicle that will secure our freedom. As for the FM, if some can’t see her for what she is, the most popular, respected and effective politician in these islands, what alternative do you have?
Time to unite and get stuck into the tories and the damage they are doing!
There is only ONE exit strategy and that is herd immunity. Whether COVID-19 is real or not, people can’t keep running away or hiding from it forever. It’s going to have to be confronted and that means people becoming infected.
The upward trajectory (the curve) seems to be flattening which means the NHS won’t become overwhelmed with cases and for the vast majority of people, COVID-19 will at most, be similar to a heavy cold.
The biggest challenges facing Scotland, the UK, and probably every country which has been affected by this, are the socio-political outcomes and I’ll give one example, which I thought about yesterday.
In the UK, people have the right to peaceful protest, that’s why protest marches happen, the social gatherings of AUOB and the like.
Currently, the police are enforcing social distancing guidelines but as ever with the police, they have their own interpretations of the guidelines due to a lack of clarity from the government.
At the moment, people still have the right to peaceful protest ON PAPER, but are unable to practice that right in reality due to the aforesaid social distancing guidelines but suppose social distancing becomes law?
Who can possibly argue against such a law being implemented when the reason given will be ‘it saves lives’?
That’s just one of the many dangers facing society post COVID-19. There are others, but I feel I’d be tiring my fingers out unnecessarily outlining them here.
Doug Buchannan
I’d suggest the only way the SNP will protect Scotland from Brexit, is by adopting an approach to constitutional law that is compatible with international human rights law. That would require them to step out from under the authority of contemporary British constitutional law, which lacks adequate moral authority to bind Scotland in union. I see no indication that the SNP have sufficient interest or legal insight to do so.
@sensibledave
I think I mentioned one earlier, at present there is probably too many infected people to run with it. If the lockdown can reduce the spread to a reasonable level then I would go with the test, trace and isolate whilst controlling the borders. That way there should be no need to have a further lockdown if it is done effectively, certainly a worry given the UK governments performance so far.
Those that just want it to let rip and the vulnerable are just the damage worth taking are a bit macabre, and lacking in any humanity.
The concern is the hints that having had the virus doesn’t give you immunity or even if they produce a vaccine the virus won’t mutate like the flu making it a continuous fight.
Sensible Dave
Breastplate
The Swedish route is the correct way to go.
People always slag anyone who brings up the economy but it is the economy which keeps people healthy through jobs, money and prosperity.
Already we are seeing a large increase in alcoholism, domestic violence and the neglect of cancer and other treatments.
The current policy of all four countries in the UK is madness.
I even saw an article on Newsnight last night which showed that in many cases the use of ventilators was making patients worse rather than better. You will recall that the lack of ventilators was the big thing a while back.
The sooner we are back to something like normality, the better.
I still think it will be Trump, as leader of the free world,who will extricate us from this bondage.
Too many know-all’s for my liking
The SNP’s approach to the law is a perfect example of “legal parochialism”, IMHO. I’m a vulnerable individual and I fear for my future in Brexitania, as I’ll be detached from the justice of international human rights law.
As far as I’m concerned, the SNP could not have made a bigger mess of things if they had tried.
Global Health Ethics
Key issues
Global Network of WHO Collaborating Centres for Bioethics
https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/164576/1/9789240694033_eng.pdf
Pete @ 9.21. Why wouldn’t she.
According to Tom Gordon last week there were up to 1500 non covid deaths over and above the annual average for weeks 14 & 15 combined.
Given that there had hitherto been over 300,000 natural departures from the 2014 electorate the rapid acceleration in demographic change means that, mass murder aside, the only long term threat to independence from following Westminster dictat on the matter is the permanent suspension of democracy – which, despite media manipulation the Salmond trial, mass surveillance and all the rest, would never be tolerated in England, far less Scotland.
Mist001,
Correct, 50% of the population will have no symptoms whatsoever from C19 and a further 30% will have mild symptoms.
Not all of us need to self isolate, just the vulnerable.
All
Just seen the interview with the Swedish scientist referred to by SD on guido fawkes and it is very convincing.
Put your claymores and dirks down, have a look and see if you reckon it makes sense.
This is way above nationalism.
Another day of English/British nationalist incompetence, another day closer to the end of the so-called united kingdom.
The so-called united kingdom remains the sickest of sick jokes.
Pete,
You are correct regarding the need of a working economy but Donald Trump is a delusional character, to put it politely.
Some people think that as the Chinese economy becomes more and more capitalistic it will inevitably become more democratic
[Let] me say again that the relationship is asymmetrical: there’s no democracy without a market economy, but you can have a market economy without democracy.
Peter Ludwig Berger
Sociologist, Humanist & Theologian
Meanwhile liar and coward Johnson still hides under the bed-sheets.
Nice one Chris.
The extent and duration of the lockdown is partly a function of the lack of preparedness to protect the people who have no choice of whether to self isolate or lock themselves down.
That is, the care workers, front line NHS workers, supermarket workers etc.
Working with people who have a new potentially deadly virus coughing in your face without appropriate ppe is not acceptable.
There is global run on this equipment and when a sustainable supply can be achieved to match requirements then lockdown will be relaxed.
People who do not have to risk their lives every day going to work(inappropriately protected) with infected people are not what the lock down is about.
The other factor in length of lockdown was the bungled acceleration policy UK gov ran when they did not prepare for the consequences.
These factors have led to the English Red zone and the ongoing length and depth of the lockdown.
I have known for a long long time the UK was a regressive, badly governed state.
Their handling of Covid19 is an excellent illustration of that.
SensibleDave & Pete.
Yes Scotland has its own health service and ideas.
But has its hands tied behind its back by an oppressor.
That is a FACT.
Over to you at the 77th.
Boris Johnson is the Neville Chamberlain of our times,
to fight the virus and its social and economic impact the UK needs a coalition War Cabinet with a War leader in charge not a frightened chimp,
dare i say Nicola.
Breastplate
You are probably right about Trump but he tends to get the big decisions correct.
Doug
You are a real nasty piece of work.
Most of the folks on here I disagree with and vice-versa but I don’t think many of them are like you.
I’m certainly not calling for an extended lock-down, but crisis management requires a logical and systematic approach. Not all nations have the infrastructure or leadership to protect the public. Not all nations have the political will do do so either.
Putting public health ethics into practice: a systematic framework
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2015.00023/full
Pete, Breastplate, Jfngw
I am grateful that is not me making the decisions on strategy.
Even if the Swedes are right, I think we know that hospitalisation and requirements for icu beds would increase dramatically … perhaps meaning that some that may have survived with icu care, wont, because there wasn’t enough resource available. That is a very tough stance for a government to take.
The UK’s strategy is probably the one I would stay with.
Anyone remember what Stu said about trolls?
About responding to them?
Anyone?
To change the subject there are small companies making PPE in England and they have alerted the Westminster shower only to be ignored . They are therefore exporting to Spain and Italy .
If Scotland had her own money for this and not part of the Westminster procurement , or lack of procurement , there would be no reason for us not to be well stocked .
I HATE VICTIMS WHO RESPECT THEIR EXECUTIONERS.
Jean-Paul Sartre
Great news. Our joy overflows at being told that her majest the Queen has graciously decided in the public interest to forego a 94 gun salute on her birthday.
Her majesty certainly knows how to make a sacrifice.
Now if she could just rustle up a few surgical gowns and she me face masks…………
@sensibledave
There is no perfect response to this, they are all pretty horrendous for our way of life. When this is over, if it’s ever totally over, then we can only judge the performance of each countries decisions. The deaths per million will reveal the badly chosen responses, totals are irrelevant without taking into account population.
Jfngw
Your comment is absolute proof that two people can agree totally on something, even though their politics may be very different.
The racist gullable bastards of england will believe any shite that their racist Psychopathic leaders tell them.
They lap up any shite their racist lying media tells them.
All the media need to do to win over english hearts is get the cameras round to some old english WW2 “War Hero” or,,,get the cameras round to the house of some English prince and before you know it they are all singing “Land of Hope and Glory”. This is what I mean when I call them gullable english bastards.
The whole fuckin lot of them still think the Universe revolves around england. They still think england is a world power who has the answers to everybody else’s problems.
Delusions of grandeur doesn’t even come close to describing what little englanders think of themselves.
And it wouldn’t surprise me if the majority of virus deaths in Scotland was caused by those little englanders who rushed North of the border carrying the Corana Virus and spread about Scotland before the lockdown kicked in.
The bastards followed their Bonny Prince over the border to Scotland and spread their shit all over the place.
And what are the gullable racist English reading in their morning papers? They are reading that some english lab is going to save the Planet by finding a cure for this Virus by September. WTF???
Why is this not the headline story in every country in the World? I’ll tell you why,,, because it is nothing more than English propaganda bullshit that the rest of the world has got used to and is only believed by the gullable, thick as shit english racists.
And by a freak quirk of fate over 300 years ago, Scotland finds it’s self hitched to and governed by these physicopathic lunatics.
If only we had an exit strategy.
CBB
You wrote: “I am certainly not calling for an extended lock down”.
I know Cammy. You are not calling for anything. You just rubbish everyone else.
Still waiting Cammy!
Is there a God up there.
Governments should be following the trends established in the
Countries that were first badly affected by the virus.
Not follow what they did.
Monitor the actions of similar countries to your own
Who are able to minimise contamination and death
Just like Germany and do the tests extensively, the isolation
And the lockdown.
Do not have the Cheltenham race festival, major football matches and large
Music concerts like England did.
Sweden are not doing well compared to the neighbours that is a statistical fact!
The UK are doing very badly all around with little testing, no testing kits available and a late attempt at testing and then not hitting the testing numbers they aim for.
UK claim to have massive stocks but don’t know who to send it out, when to send it or where to send it out. They come.up with an Order PPE kit helpline that you can’t get thru to and if you do they don’t
Have what you need or z date when it might get delivered.
Doctors and Nurses are being sent to gamble with death without PPE.
Day after day, week after week and month after month now we hear the Tories
Say they are working very hard, don’t blame us we brought in scientists for you to blame,
and of course they mention they sent out a Zillion items so that number being inadequate, missing other items of kit and being delivered late are not to be mentioned.
The true death rates for the UK are likely to be the highest globally after Trumpland.
The link being blind idiots with priority given to making money for people with money.
Bojo the serial liar prepares us by claiming the UK Is well set up for this when in fact they
Ignored the Cygnus project highlighting how badly prepared we were.
He demonstrates how to wash your hands on TV by breaking all the rules and catching the virus.
His cabinet also done well in spreading the virus between themselves.
Gove puts his daughter as a priority for testing in front of our Doctors and Nurses.
Tory MSP’s and an MP and a senior member of England’s royal family all travel during the ban
But no action taken, Scottish Scientist travels and we have a major which hunt demanding we
Lose her specialist skills prove England controls us.
English manufacturers refuse to sell PPE to Scotland but that’d OK as we
Are equal partners all in it together?
English poll shows Boris is growing in popularity.
Scotland is to take all this and be grateful to be ruled over by corrupt incompetent criminals devoid of
Morality.
Dave and Pete- Start waving your Butchers Apron Fags at your picture of the queen.
Dave’s still a Tory so lacks a reliable moral compass.
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2019/10/22/the-withdrawal-agreement-bill-and-do-no-harm-to-health/
Jackie says: 12:34 pm
… wrote: “The racist gullable bastards of england will believe any shite that their racist Psychopathic leaders tell them.”
Haha! Methinks Jackie may not quite understand irony, or have even a scintilla of self-awareness. Classic!
Here are some maps and graphs which are interactive using the menus. Pretty current up to including 18th April.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data
Excellent Chris, just a little disappointed as you should know HRH The Queen has her 94th birthday on 21st April, thought you may have done something to celebrate.
Her majesty has asked that there is no gun salute to Mark her birthday due to the virus. Got to love her so considerate.
While on the subject of the Royals I am towards the end of a book written by Norman Baker Rt Hon former Lib Dem MP. Book is titled and what do you do?
The cheek of this man he basically suggests that the royal family are operating like an organised crime group. He suggests that they are helping themselves to millions of pounds aided and abetted by the establishment.
You should read the book if you get a chance, then we can call for Bakers head for besmirching the royals.
Old news but might give you an indication of what Brexitania means for your chances for a healthy life.
The Lancet: Brexit will cause significant harm to the NHS, but No-Deal Brexit presents by far the worst option
https://eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-02/tl-pss022219.php#
Such is the extent that the Covid-19 virus has gripped the totally unprepared USA, that Trump is attempting to deflect his and his governments inadequacies on handling it, that the new line is one of China created this virus in a lab to destory the USA’s economy.
More worringly is the stand in English PM’s (Dominic Raab) hinting that he thinks Trump might be onto something there.
Yes the virus first occured in China, possibly in one of their Wet Markets, that contains wild and domestcated animals as sources of food, which are unregulated. Yes China were relucant to quickly inform the WHO, until several whistleblowers revealed the extent of the outbreak, or there abouts.
Though I doubt China would want to destroy their own economy along with everyone elses, cutting off your own nose to spite your face, isn’t a clever thing to do.
Of course keeping an open mind is the sensible thing to do, but this appears to me first and foremost that Trump is looking to point the finger of blame, to divert attention away form his failure to put in place proper procedures to cope with the virus.
Soon when the UK finally emerges from this virus, or just before that time, look out for the English government pointing its finger of blame to turn attention away from its inadequacies over the handling of the virus. Who or what body will be its scapegoat, I wonder? The NHS? The WHO? Corbyn? Sturgeon?, we’ll just have to wait and see.
If Scotland does not move fast, we will have no effective national health service to rely on. That’s the cost of legal parochialism.
Full text.
Preparedness and management of global public health threats at points of entry in Ireland and the EU in the context of a potential Brexit
https://globalizationandhealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12992-019-0496-4
If you have to climb up a tree to escape from a lion then what is the primary consideration for deciding when to come down again? Is it a question of how long you have been sitting up in the tree, or of how uncomfortable it is up the tree, or of how there are other places you need to go to and things you need to do?
No.
The most important question is, where is the lion now, is it still waiting for you down below and have you acquired any better tools for knowing that information and for defending yourself when you climb back down.
Republicofscotland
Trump is agitating insurrection against lock-down, in Democratic states.
Mark Russell
Very nicely explained, thank you.
This article is worth a read.
https://www.newstatesman.com/2020/04/eleven-days-may-have-tragically-cost-uk-fight-against-coronavirus
Cammy, 12.36, 12.49, 12.54, etc, etc
… despite all of those posts, what do have from you? Nothing! Other than you pointing us to things other people have written as if that somehow makes the “gospel”!
We are all still waiting to hear, based upon all of your learned, academic excellence, your preferred strategy to deal with cv19, starting from now!
It’s embarrassing now Cammy. You appear to be just another “empty vessel”.
The Netherlands:18/04/2020
Tested positive = 31,589 +1,140
Hosp Admit = 9,594+129
Deceased = 3,601+142
Did NHS staff in the UK really need to be short of PPE, when the EU offered the UK equipment from its EU scheme. Well according to the English government, they accidently missed the opportunity to join the scheme on three, yes three separate occasions, which I find quite remarkable.
However the more likely explanation is that the English Tory government point blankly refused EU help with obtaining PPE. If that is indeed the case, then the English government must surely have blood on their hands as NHS nurses have since died from Covid-19, mostly likely due to lack of proper protective gear.
We know Johnson and his mainly anti-EU cabinet are determined to carry on no matter what happens with the post-Brexit deal, such is their loathing of all things Johnny Foreigner. Would it have been seen as an sign of weakness by Johnson et al to accept the PPE from the EU, that might have upset the balance on a deal? If so what about the deaths that have occured due to the lack of PPE, are they seen as collateral damage by Johnson to maintain a strong deal hand with the EU?
Sensibledave
Are you seriously expecting me to outline a robust plan of action to tack covid?
I think I’ve not done too bad a job at outlining the “precautionary principle” and its’ significance to a “precautionary approach” to public health. This is probably why dave is so desperate to position himself as my intellectual superior. Dave’s a Tory.
Health law and policy, devolution and Brexit
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00343404.2020.1736538
Mild flu- ffs you two are fecking eegits. Don’t you ever listen to the doctors-THIS IS NOT PNEUMONIA!
Sweden have it right do they aye?, see you two fuckers Pete and Simple D , away and take yir brain for a shyte
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-deaths-lockdown-social-distancing-denmark-finland-norway-a9470771.html
You can add the other two dafty’s MIST 001 and Breastplate- jist fecking do wan wull yi
Lest we forget:
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18340289.cornoavirus-boris-johnson-flouted-covid-19-rules/
Mark Russell
You wrote: “The most important question is, where is the lion now, is it still waiting for you down below and have you acquired any better tools for knowing that information and for defending yourself when you climb back down.”
Following the analogy …
There are millions of us up individual trees.
There are potentially lions at the bottom of each tree, but actually the vast majority of lions don’t have teeth or claws and can’t hurt us.
We each don’t know whether the lion at the bottom of our tree has teeth and claws or not. No one knows.
We have been up the trees for 3 weeks and are planning to hold out for another 3 weeks.
In few months, or a year, someone might turn up with a lion gun – or not.
The lion gun may or may not work fully
We are able to stay up our trees because some people get down from their trees to send us money, provide with food, show us things on screens.
Etc, etc
@Republicofscotland said ‘If so what about the deaths that have occured due to the lack of PPE, are they seen as collateral damage by Johnson’
Not even.
Collateral damage is what the british do to brown people in their warmongering adventures.
Not so much collateral damage, as natural wasteage in this instance.
That is the way the british see this, and will ultimately present this as.
BBC Scotland at it again, using UK survey to try and infer the problem is Scottish only. They have no idea how many from Scotland complained as the individual responses are not detailed from each nation in the story. The mix in other stories to drive home the point, probably from some of their less than impartial contributors.
Anyway the important point is yesterday the Tories in Scotland demanded more attacks on the SNP, within 24 hours the BBC responds.
Talking about the NHS, this amazing fundraiser for NHS Charities together, just what exactly is the money being raised for. They are a membership based organisation, Charities have to register with this for a fee to be eligible to receive funds. It’s a Company Ltd by guarantee, which doesn’t deal directly with the NHS(England) but supports charities which are linked to the NHS. What is the money for, because I don’t think its to supply PPE if that was your reason for donating. They are not registered as a charity with Oscar. By the way not counting the money being raised now, on their own funding page they already have £26 million in donations.
Anyone remember Iraq Body Count and the Chilcot Inquiry?
When the Lancet published a report which applied standard methodology to
count the excess deaths in the Iraq war, the number was politically too high so IBC was set up to provide govt/media friendly figures which were manipulated
so as to look more acceptable.
UK media lapped it up. This is happening now.
The Chilcot Iraq inquiry was resisted for years (whilst fighting continued and to save the blushes of the soldiers in the field). When it finally got underway under G Brown in 2009 it was delayed and restricted in every way possible and was finally released on 6 July 2016 – in the frenzied aftermath of the Brexit vote.
Ottomanboi says:
“…there’s no democracy without a market economy, but you can have a market economy without democracy.”
Attributed to
Peter Ludwig Berger
Sociologist, Humanist & Theologian
You don’t have to look very far to find irrefutable proof of the second part of that statement.
The first part however would depend on ones definition of democracy, the market economy, and the extent society is prepared to limit or constrain personal freedoms and where we draw the lines between freedom, unacceptable behavior and criminality.
On the strength of that quote, he sounds more like a shill for the sharks and the jackals to me.
Passenger Flights still arriving at Heathrow from badly affected areas and no checks or tests on arriving passengers. C’mon SNP close Scotland’s borders like yesterday.
Personal freedom maxed out, is the Freedom to Kill people and take their stuff.
AKA The American dream/nightmare.
” Pete says:
18 April, 2020 at 11:36 am
Sensible Dave
Breastplate
The Swedish route is the correct way to go.
People always slag anyone who brings up the economy but it is the economy which keeps people healthy through jobs, money and prosperity.
Already we are seeing a large increase in alcoholism, domestic violence and the neglect of cancer and other treatments.
The current policy of all four countries in the UK is madness.
I even saw an article on Newsnight last night which showed that in many cases the use of ventilators was making patients worse rather than better. You will recall that the lack of ventilators was the big thing a while back.
The sooner we are back to something like normality, the better.
I still think it will be Trump, as leader of the free world,who will extricate us from this bondage.
Too many know-all’s for my liking”
Do you get paid for being a cunt?
Most of us have heard of the ” corrective arm ” and “convergence programs ” within the EU infrastructure
They are called national reform programs
Step 1: Type into Google – Assesment of the 2015 convergence program for Croatia
Step 2: Read page one
Weep and then lie about it
RoS @ 12.50
The fact that Wuhan is the centre of research in China into bio-warfare and that US money was being spent there on joint research into new forms of coronavirus some of the work involving coronavirus in bats is just a coincidence?
Above a certain level there are no countries.
robbo says:
18 April, 2020 at 1:13 pm
Mild flu- ffs you two are fecking eegits. Don’t you ever listen to the doctors-THIS IS NOT PNEUMONIA!
Sweden have it right do they aye?, see you two fuckers Pete and Simple D , away and take yir brain for a shyte…
Don’t be too sure there’s two of them. 😉
Robbo,
I’m obviously in need of your sage advice, could you tell me why this lockdown is so perfect for you and everyone else?
Here was me thinking America could top the covid 19 death charts.
Africa could become the next epicentre of the coronavirus outbreak, the World Health Organisation (WHO) has warned.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/414548/africa-could-become-next-epicentre-of-covid-19-outbreak
The queue for NHS PPE grows ever longer.
If only our ruling masters knew of this virus outbreak a few months ago…
The Swedish graph doesn’t look too good to me.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-deaths-lockdown-social-distancing-denmark-finland-norway-a9470771.html
Breeks,
I’ll take it that remark is directed at me because I am in disagreement with you.
You didn’t address my concerns in my post to you, why not?
Have you now labelled me a troll after 8 years of contribution to this site to avoid your own cognitive dissonance?
Not you Breastplate.
Pete and Simple D were the names Robbo was referring to. 😉
Sunak has just proved MMT economists were right for the last 30 years.
Financial times, New York Times, Guardian, Bloomberg, Ruuters all admitted it in the last month.
BBC and Telegraph kicking and screaming their way to the truth.
If MMT is a lens. By denying and then lying about what the lens reveals before you even use it for left of right wing purposes.
What does that make you ?
The Scottish Independence movement at the heart of Europe that’s what.
After corrective arm, after corrective arm, convergence program after convergence program year after year after joining with their own currency.
Croatia ‘s household and businesses are now in deficit.
https://tradingeconomics.com/croatia/government-budget
Spending more than their income running up more private debt. The debt that really matters.
Neoliberal central. The blueprint of the EU.
Rural areas in Scotland and pensioners would be hit first. Decimated. The most efficient way bar none, to turn rural areas into far right wing breeding grounds.
Sign them up to the ” corrective arm ” and ” convergence programs ” of the EU neoliberal blue print. Now called national reform programs.
The Scottish Growth Commission was a copy and paste Job of a corrective arm, convergence program.
Trapped in that you will be on your hands and knees begging to be back in the UK.
There was simply no need for any of it.
Sunak has showed quite clearly with your own currency and own central bank. You can create as many blips as you like half a £ trillion last count. Swap as many assets as you like at your central to get the job done.
We didn’t need either the EU or EFTA to do it.
Thank feck we were not part of this shambles.
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=44618
Thank God the SNP hasn’t a car in hells chance of winning Indy Ref 2. With their heart of Europe nonsense.
It will go down in Scottish folklore as the biggest mistake since keep the £.
Brexit always was an IQ test. That Scottish voters failed miserably.
Pastor Jack Glass established his Zion Sovereign Grace Baptist Church in Glasgow’s Polmadie area in 1965. From there he conducted a 40-year “fire and brimstone” crusade against the LGBT community and the Roman Catholic church.
https://caltonjock.com/2020/04/18/tories-in-scotland-developing-links-with-the-orange-order-and-dup-is-actively-promoting-the-return-of-bigotry/
Hi Dorothy Devine at 12:14 pm.
You typed,
“If Scotland had her own money for this and not part of the Westminster procurement , or lack of procurement , there would be no reason for us not to be well stocked .”
I’ve always meant to do this but now I have loads of time on my hands…
I’ve just spent the time since your comment googling and following links all over the web. In that time, I’ve found no concrete indication that NHS procurement in the UK is controlled by Westminster.
I’m now wondering if this is an urban legend that has become truth by repetition?
I found plenty info (see links below) but nothing saying that Westminster controlled all procurement for the 4 national NHS organisations –
NHS England
NHS Scotland
NHS Wales
HSC Northern Ireland.
There’s a lot of info at these 6 links so I’ll stick the last 3 in a following comment.
First of all, a story in The Guardian from 2014, setting the scene.
Scotland’s answer to economic woe: public procurement
https://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2014/nov/19/scotland-economy-public-procurement-england
There are plenty of links to follow at these two sites:-
https://www.nhsscotlandprocurement.scot.nhs.uk/
https://nhsnss.org/
This was unintentionally funny from Trump-loving Pete.
I still think it will be Trump, as leader of the free world, who will extricate us from this bondage.
Too many know-all’s for my liking
I give you Trump who knows everything about everything
And is happy to tell you he does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR3f95BGIiA
https://www.scot.nhs.uk/organisations/
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/partnering-with-the-nhs-to-sell-goods-and-services
https://www.procurementhub.co.uk/eligibility-criteria/
All this talk of Sweden and how it’s the only one pursuing a practical path is utter bollocks. Sweden is benefiting from all their neighbours being locked down.
If you flew just one plane-load of covid-positive people into the country every week, let them enjoy not being locked down and wander wherever they wanted I’m sure the situation would be drastically different.
It’s the exact same situation as the anti-vaxers. They skip the vaccinations but they still get the benefits from everyone who did not.
Most of us have heard of the ” corrective arm ” and “convergence programs ” within the EU infrastructure
They are called national reform programs
Step 1: Type into Google – Assesment of the 2015 convergence program for Croatia
Step 2: Read page one
Weep and then lie about it
Lie,lie,lie and lie some more until you become a laughing stock.
The virus and its consequences should be the only talking point .
Not a daft cartoon
For those who don’t think this lockdown has negative consequences.
https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-cancer-treatment-cutbacks-uk-latest-calls-charities-breast-cancer-2541044
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/485876-covid-lockdown-kills-150000/
When Pete and SimpleD are on, it’s like Theresa May being interviewed by Ruth Davidson deep in a secluded Aberdeenshire forest, then passed off a spontaneous conversation designed for dumb folk.
I don’t have any problem with your posts whatsoever Breastplate. Sorry if I’ve given you that impression. Wasn’t my intention.
Derek Henry
Care to detail how the Scottish economy is comparable with that of Croatia? Otherwise, page one is irrelevant F.U.D., M’kay.
Stuart Mackay,
There is no vaccine for C18 yet to be anti vaccine.
C19 that should be
Then I apologise to you Breeks for jumping the gun.
Derek Henry says:
18 April, 2020 at 2:15 pm
Lie,lie,lie and lie some more until you become a laughing stock.
Says the genius who hasn’t realised Scotland already does converge with EU membership criteria, and the biggest threat to maintaining our convergence is the asinine deregulation of the UK standards which will set Scotland well on it’s way to being comparable to a post communist backwater unable to trade with our friends in Europe.
cctxt
Yes I remember being taken aback by the 600,00 estimated deaths figure, when we were being told about smart bombs which could stop to let an old lady cross the road, turn left at the traffic lights then fly right up Saddam Hussein’s evil smelly arse. Not forgetting the billions the west were supposed to be spending to help the Iraqi People flourish now that the Tyrant had been deposed.
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/covid19/covid-deaths-report-week-15.pdf
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending3april2020
BBC figures today from the websites for each of the 4 countries of UK
Scotland…..today 56……..total 893 (hospitals deaths)
Wales……..today 28……..total 534
N. Ireland…today 19……..total 193
England……today no data ..total no data
—————————————
UK………..today 888…….total 15464
Cammy 1.08
… yes!
Breeks
Thanks, that was much clearer and efficient argument than mine, as I forgot to include the TRUTH component of the argument. 😉
What a brutally accurate cartoon.
This COVID19 fuck up by the UK government is the most fundamental reason why Scotland needs to be independent, making our own decisions, and doing what’s best for the people of Scotland.
If only we had a SNP Scottish government prepared to tell its people how we’ve been failed. Yes, our NHS is better and so better able to cope, for now, but we’re not immune to the sheer incompetence and criminality of the WM Tory government in this public health crisis. Notwithstanding, their bullish determination to complete Brexit at the end of the year.
The SNP’s silence to hold WM to account is deafening.
But as long as the likes of John Nicholson keep posting pish on twitter about trans rights it seems like it’s business as usual for some in the SNP.
PLEASE can we get get a TRUE independence party off the ground and quick.
Sensibledave
You appear to be desperate to defend criminal negligence. That’s not very sensible.
Full text.
Civil Liberties and Securing the Homeland
https://uk.sagepub.com/sites/default/files/upm-binaries/76594_Chapter_4.pdf
Cammy
I’m not desperate for anything matey.
I am waiting for you to tell us your preferred strategy starting from here, now.
But you won’t, because you cant.
… empty vessel.
Sensibledave
Are you blind?
https://uk.sagepub.com/sites/default/files/upm-binaries/76594_Chapter_4.pdf
Congratulations Dave and Pete your Supremest Nation England
And union local colonies are top of today’s Death Charts again
With 888 victims.
The excitement builds to see if they can take it up to 1,000 hospital deaths
Per day and will I be too old to make that number?
Will Gov bodies and media be able to cover it up.
Watch the next exciting episode of Cremation Street UK.
Hi Brian , hope you are in fine fettle in bonny Dundee!
Thanks for the links , some are a wee bit elderly. I was convinced the procurement of PPE had ben taken over by Westminster who then made a complete cod of the whole thing – didn’t get the e-mail, dog ate the letter etc.etc. .
I remain unconvinced that Scotland has a free hand but if it does then there are a couple of people to whom they should speak if there are any shortages.
Scozzie
Maybe you didn’t see the research by Bdtt which shows the independence of the SNHS?
Have a look
Derek Henry
The fatal flaw in the EU is that it is a political union with a single currency but no fiscal or monetary union. This means that Southern Europe countries suffer from an overpriced currency and Germany and Holland benefit from an underpriced currency thus loading up the southern countries with high unemployment.
Even during this crisis Germany has refused to allow the issuance of corona bonds to assist the ailing states.
In other words, it’s each country to its own.
Better to stay well away.
Na! Big Auntie darn Sarf UK and England web sites playing the Ace of Spades information close to her chest for the fourth day in a row.
UK site gives the 888 figure and 15464 total
England web site ‘Live’ corona virus impact on England’
Nothing on numbers at all.
Just jolly hockey sticks stories and Queenie.
It’s the way they don’t tell em! 🙁
Senslessdave
There have been numerous strategies posted, before and after you asked the question.
Mostly suggesting a return to normality in stages, with increased levels of testing and analysis of same, driving the timetable.
Restrictions being lifted on – schools – work – travel – social distancing – large assemblies – vulnerable groups.
In that approximate order.
Yes, I did have to grimace at an earlier poster’s comments about some in the SNP still banging on about trans rights.
If that is all such politicos have got to fill their minds at this particular time then I think we can all understand how the SNP has rotted from within. These politicos would be better spent sewing face masks or making plastic gowns. Just an absolute dead weight on society, it galls even more that the Westminster ones are all getting £10,000 to work at home.
Lockstep with the Tories, the SNP helped turn a crisis into a disaster.
Europe does suffer from a north-south divide and two-speed economy, much like Brexitania. I don’t think Scotland’s economy would be comparable with the slower economies of the continental south though, just the opposite, due to our resource and technology base.
The one big difference between the British and European unions, is the EU respects national sovereignty, where as Westminster doesn’t. I know which of the unions Scotland would prefer, if only we had an opportunity to retain our EU citizenship.
Pete @ 3.08pm
Our Scottish NHS is only independent to a point. Everyone on here knows fine well how the Barnett consequentials affect the Block Grant. When WM defunds the health system it also defunds the Scottish Block Grant. Not to mention their Brexit power grab on procurement.
Please don’t treat people on here as fools.
Pete@3.08
Keep reading the Nigel, Donald and Boris “comics” on how to do business “real good”.
Then open your eyes to more than one sided bias, aye keep blaming the Germans, its all you lot have. By the way I thought you lot beat the Germans single handed in the war? must be proud that an old war vet is having to raise money to bale you out.
Don’t see the Germans having to do that, that must really hurt?
Yes, and whilst we are talking about people who have their hand out for subsidy I see that the deep sea fishing industry has now secured substantial governmental support.
The sad fact however is that the deep sea fishing industry may now be permanently decline.
Once the cheerleaders for Brexit, and now having got their wish, the deep sea fishermen may have lost their EU market permanently. Like turkeys voting for an early Christmas we are either as a nation going to have to learn to eat a lot more fish, or the fish or just going to have to stay in the sea.
Do we therefore want to keep supporting these industries is the question we should maybe now be asking.
Here’s how Denmark are taking their first post-lockdown baby steps –
gotta get those tattoo parlours open –
And useful info on Sweden as well.
It’s a myth that life goes on as normal in Sweden,” Foreign Affairs Minister Ann Linde told reporters, pointing out that many parts of society had shut down and that businesses were collapsing as a result of the pandemic.
http://archive.is/gOOLZ
1. It becomes clearer every day that the Westminster Government has handled the pandemic threat badly. Complacency, delay. arrogant disregard of WHO advice, politics dominant instead of expert/clinical, London-relevant policy being imposed on all UK, Daily briefings that are pure PR etc etc.
2. The Scottish Government has essentially followed tamely the Westminster line. It has been too timid to speak out independently, to oppose vociferously the wrong steps being taken.
3. How different might it have been if the First Minister was bolder, more assertive, willing to tell the public that the UK Government is wrong and we must tackle the problem another way?
4. Can you think of such a bold and assertive leader? I can.
Willie
The City is even making money out of the requests for subsidies.
Morgan Stanley has been hired by the UK government to advise on Virgin Atlantic’s request for a package of financial support. Both Rothschild and EY had previously been brought in to help with any potential airline state aid.
http://archive.is/aCMFw
Civil liberties are vital but are not safe without a legal respect for public health ethics.
https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/8/08-052431/en/
The daily UK government briefing is scheduled to take place at 16:00 BST.
We’ve just had it confirmed that Communities Secretary Robert Jenrick will brief the media alongside Stephen Powis, national medical director for England.
—————————————————–
Jenrick he who had to take messages and shopping to his parents house and got reported was on the WM safety advert stay at home. Never resigned.
Did parents shopping list have sause or goose or gander in it?
Gary45%
You have just planted the image of a bunch of old guys in silver trimmed black dressing gowns, doing a sponsored goose-step.
And talking about farming and growing next I see that with our having created the hostile environment for foreign EU citizens, it may well now be the case that much of this years fruit crop may be left unpicked due to a lack of seasonal workers.
Oh dear, another Brexit dividend that we voted for.
You couldn’t make it up. Good old Queen Nicola for saving us from Brexit.
And full marks too for allowing the Brexit party Prime Minister in Westminster to tell the EU that the UK wanted no participation in the joint EU medical equipment procurement framework. Yes well done again Queen Nicola.
I’m so happy, so delirious with joy, I’m off now to roar out God Save and fool Britannia. And as the sun goes down we will remember our glorious, glorious dead. But in all of this, where the fucks Boris. Gone into hiding. Certainly seems so……….anyway off to sing!
Yes and just as I started to sing vainglorious songs about our days of empire, glorious empire I just wondered where that fucker Dominic Cummings is.
Last seen running down Downing Street one wonders what’s happened to him too.
Maybe he’s in the bunker with Johnson with a bottle of cyanide pills and a Jerry can of petrol. Now wouldn’t that be a fitting comparison .
Mike Cassidy,
Sweden are perusing a different strategy using a different model to combat the effects of C19.
There was never a question of them ignoring Covid19.
That some people on here suggested that shows a less than determined mindset to find out.
It’s always easier to repeat somebody else’s opinion.
BBC Auntie saying Hancock has been asked to consider his position regarding the situation of the ENHS lack of equipment.
Peter @ 3.29pm
Your point 4 – and boy would he have let rip!
But here we have a timid, insipid, cautious, so called leader.
Talk about the tea leaves signaling umpteen opportunities and yet all squandered.
And although this health crisis should not be used as cheap point scoring, there’s no getting away from the political fuck up that is playing out in front of us. Our Scottish government should be holding the criminals to account – for that is what they are. People are dying – no testing, no contact tracing, no PPE, no accurate counting of those who sadly pass away.
Better together eh! NS may want to cease all independence campaigning; but that should not stop us to hammer home to our no voting friends and family that being tied to the UK is killing us!
Scottish civil liberties simply do not appear to register in the British academic consciousness, which has a very English slant to its’ world view.
https://legalresearch.blogs.bris.ac.uk/2020/04/beyond-liberty-social-values-and-public-health-ethics-in-responses-to-covid-19/
@ Dorothy Devine & Bdtt.
Your correct Dorothy.
A wholly owned government company was set up in 2017, signed off by none other than Matt Hancock, I think November 2019,( coincidental or what eh!) Hancock is the boss.
I’ll try get the link for you, I’m not to great at doing this, so might be a while.
I appreciate that article is concerned with covid and not constitutional justice. It still displays a ‘One Nation’ perspective. 😉
@ Dorothy Devine.
Sorry just read that again, should have said ‘ almost correct’.
Another £bn1.6 to English councils which doubles the amount given
from the Communities Minister to date.
Plus aninvite to Cpt Tom to be a guest of honour and open a hospital. 🙂
“Galt says:
18 April, 2020 at 1:58 pm
RoS @ 12.50
The fact that Wuhan is the centre of research in China into bio-warfare and that US money was being spent there on joint research into new forms of coronavirus some of the work involving coronavirus in bats is just a coincidence?”
“Above a certain level there are no countries.”
Galt.
Interesting points you make there, and as I said in my comment, keep an open mind. However unless the virus accidentally escaped from a secure facility, why would China and the USA destroy their own economies, it just doesn’t make sense.
1. Re “procurement”: this is one of the things that was subject to the post-Brexit “power grab” – Philippa Whitford warns about it here: https://twitter.com/Dr_PhilippaW/status/1135870283716464645
Has it happened yet, or will it only occur at the end of transition?
2. Some people think lock-down is a cover for a more sinister agenda, but in plain sight there’s this: https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1251458390028664832
(swings and roundabouts, maybe)
3. And finally: https://twitter.com/weehighlandlass/status/1251209121703038978
Jenrick: 400,000 gowns from Turkey to arrive tomorrow.
Journalist says: 5 days supply, small beer!
Oh! The travel question for Jenrick who without blushes says it was within the guide lines!
Jenrick: The guide lines don’t apply to people equally!? Eh!
We have it difficult but not severe, I think most would agree, the head of the United Nations food programme has said that before this virus arose, there were around 30 million people on the verge of starvation. Now as Covid-19 spreads across the likes of Sub-Saharan Africa the stress on getting food to those people becomes very difficult indeed.
With lockdowns in most countries getting food to the starving and malnourished is taking much longer. The head of the food programne is urging wealthier countries not to cut their funding to the programme during these testing times, as it will cost lives.
However with many wealthier countries still in lockdown and using their reserve funds to keep their own domestic businesses and citizens ticking over, funds to the UN food programme could crash.
I read recently that several African nations saw unusually large swarms of locusts sweep across some African nations, devastating their annual food crops in the process.
crazycat
The sinister agenda is “social Darwinism”. Little doubt in my mind after listening to BoJo, this shambles of a response appears to be calculated.
Remember, the first principle in law is DO NO HARM, and the first principle of justice is respect EQUALITY.
Full text.
Ethics codes and reflective practice in public health
https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/42/1/188/5077245
Extra funds for the colonies. Hurrah!
Scotland , Wales and N. Ireland to receive ‘Consequentials’
I believe from the Moneys allocated to English councils and some smaller other things.
As some have already mentioned up thread,400,000 gowns to arrive from Turkey to the UK, however that in reality is only three days supply. Frontline staff are being told to reuse single use PPE, not ideal as frontline used PPE will surely be infected.
Yes it’s probably true that most countries require PPE and the need for it is in great demand. However I’m utterly perplexed as to why extra UK facilities (on top of the ones that already produce PPE) are not in full swing all around the UK, surely masks and gowns are not that complicated to produce in mass numbers.
We can quickly set up field hospitals in the UK, but cant find the initiative to produce enough PPE. There must surely be an investigation into this incompetence, post Covid-19.
A walk in the park for Jenrick there as the update finishes.
The PPE issue is a nasty problem for WM.
Revs Twitter earlier there is one UK maker desperate to sell their stock but NHSE or PHE not getting back to them. 🙁
Also noted a comment where the NHSS can’t order without the permission of PHE??
Cant believe that’s total truth but who knows. Hope not!
Golfnut , I don’t mind being ‘almost correct’ and look forward to links.
I can’t believe that there are small businesses exporting PPE because Westminster can’t be bothered or are too careless to respond.
US President Donald Trump is in my opinion playing a very dangerous game that will cost lives by saying US states that have saw protests over lock downs should be liberated, in other words opened up again, just as the US records the highest death toll figures of any country 37,000 know deaths, the total figures on US deaths from Covid-19 must surely be much higher.
Trump has also hinted at opening up the US economy, and by encouraging protests in US states to reopen individual states economies, he’s potentially putting lives at risk.
@ Dorothy Devine.
The Company is SCCL ( Supply Chain Co ordination Ltd)
They provide the Management for the NHS supply chain. Procurement and logistics. This is completely controlled by UK gov and is probably the umbrella organisation that stock piled 28 million items of PPE, that’s the PPE that’s just been released by UK Gov for distribution England only.
In September 2019
Matt Hancock told the Epilepsy Society of the work the Government was doing to ensure there would be no brexit-influenced shortage of epilepsy-specific requirements or medical supplies generally.
http://archive.is/XE1MY
Not specific to Covid, but should give you a picture of the policy environment your health depends upon. Scotland can do better. Connecting to our “Right to Development” would be a good start.
Towards Critical Analysis of the Political Determinants of Health
Comment on “How Neoliberalism Is Shaping the Supply of Unhealthy Commodities and What This Means for NCD Prevention”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7093045/
@ CBB at 4.45
And handily, that works with or without lock-down.
Heads they win, tails we lose.
I’m not being defeatist here – I’ll go down fighting (non-violently, of course) – just cynical.
Hi Golfnut at 4:08 pm + 5:11pm. (+ Dorothy!)
You typed,
“A wholly owned government company was set up in 2017, signed off by none other than Matt Hancock, I think November 2019,( coincidental or what eh!) Hancock is the boss.”
and
“The Company is SCCL ( Supply Chain Co ordination Ltd)
They provide the Management for the NHS supply chain. Procurement and logistics. This is completely controlled by UK gov and is probably the umbrella organisation that stock piled 28 million items of PPE, that’s the PPE that’s just been released by UK Gov for distribution England only.”
HAH! Thanks for the further info at 4:08pp, Golfnut. I was able to do more digging.
The problem of ambiguity arises through institutional arrogance within both NHS England and Westminster.
Here’s a quote from,
https://tinyurl.com/y725qdzm
“Centralisation of procurement and supply chain management in the English NHS: some governance and compliance challenges”
+
The celebrations of the 70th anniversary of the English National Health Service (NHS) arrived in 2018 after a decade of funding cuts and austerity policies, coupled with constant experimentation in the re-regulation of the market-based governance mechanisms that had been employed since the creation of the ‘NHS internal market’ in the 1990s.”
+
The oversight and operational management of the new NOM contracts and services along with customer engagement activities will be delivered by a new organisation known as the Intelligent Client Coordinator (ICC). The ICC contract has been entrusted to Supply Chain Coordination Limited(SCCL), a subsidiary company set up by the Department of Health and Social Care and registered in Companies House. However, SCCL is described as a public sector organisation that forms part of the ‘NHS family’ tasked with rationalising and simplifying the procurement landscape and improving responsiveness to NHS organisations.”
Here’s the letter from Matt Hancock about the setting up of Supply Chain Coordination Limited (SCCL). Nowhere in the letter does he make it clear that this only pertains to NHS England! He only types about “the NHS”.
https://www.sccl.nhs.uk/letter-of-entrustment.pdf
And this is the problem The press, TV, UK government and NHS England varely rarely use the term “NHS England” when discussing that organisation, usually abbreviating it to “the NHS”.
NHS England is just as culpable. The twitter handle for NHS England is “@NHSuk”! See here:-
https://twitter.com/msm_monitor/status/1251450630411112449/photo/1
Thus procurement is NOT centralised for the 4 NHS bodies in the UK.
Here’s a better one. I think I’ve already suggested there are positive aspects to a neo-liberal approach to government, but these are insignificant in comparison to the social harm caused, IMHO.
http://www.likealittledisaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/SER_9_2011_Amable.pdf
crazycat
I’m just waiting to see if the Church of Scotland supports the Moral Law or (white) British nationalism and English Torydum. 😉
Further thoughts on procurement…
NHS Scotland has its own procurement body, as does NHS England. As far as I’m aware from today’s news in the press and on TV, stocks of PPE in Scotland are adequate; however NHS England is reaching crisis point.
I’m supposing that the only way that the likes of Gompells can now supply all their items to Scotland – except for 3 items (coronavirus protective masks, gloves and aprons) – is that NHS England ordered and paid for all the stock of these items some time ago but asked the suppliers to store them until needed.
If this is not the case, then the Dept of Health & Social Care were illegally exceeding their remit, tampering in the suppliers’ freedom to sell to whomsoever they liked.
The Gentleperson’s Guide To Forum Spies
COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum
Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum…
There are several techniques for the control and manipulation of a internet forum no matter what, or who is on it. We will go over each technique and demonstrate that only a minimal number of operatives can be used to eventually and effectively gain a control of a ‘uncontrolled forum.’
Technique #1 – ‘FORUM SLIDING’
If a very sensitive posting of a critical nature has been posted on a forum – it can be quickly removed from public view by ‘forum sliding.’ In this technique a number of unrelated posts are quietly prepositioned on the forum and allowed to ‘age.’ Each of these misdirectional forum postings can then be called upon at will to trigger a ‘forum slide.’ The second requirement is that several fake accounts exist, which can be called upon, to ensure that this technique is not exposed to the public. To trigger a ‘forum slide’ and ‘flush’ the critical post out of public view it is simply a matter of logging into each account both real and fake and then ‘replying’ to prepositined postings with a simple 1 or 2 line comment. This brings the unrelated postings to the top of the forum list, and the critical posting ‘slides’ down the front page, and quickly out of public view. Although it is difficult or impossible to censor the posting it is now lost in a sea of unrelated and unuseful postings. By this means it becomes effective to keep the readers of the forum reading unrelated and non-issue items.
Technique #2 – ‘CONSENSUS CRACKING’
A second highly effective technique (which you can see in operation all the time at http://www.abovetopsecret.com 5) is ‘consensus cracking.’ To develop a consensus crack, the following technique is used. Under the guise of a fake account a posting is made which looks legitimate and is towards the truth is made – but the critical point is that it has a VERY WEAK PREMISE without substantive proof to back the posting. Once this is done then under alternative fake accounts a very strong position in your favour is slowly introduced over the life of the posting. It is IMPERATIVE that both sides are initially presented, so the uninformed reader cannot determine which side is the truth. As postings and replies are made the stronger ‘evidence’ or disinformation in your favour is slowly ‘seeded in.’ Thus the uninformed reader will most like develop the same position as you, and if their position is against you their opposition to your posting will be most likely dropped. However in some cases where the forum members are highly educated and can counter your disinformation with real facts and linked postings, you can then ‘abort’ the consensus cracking by initiating a ‘forum slide.’
Technique #3 – ‘TOPIC DILUTION’
Topic dilution is not only effective in forum sliding it is also very useful in keeping the forum readers on unrelated and non-productive issues. This is a critical and useful technique to cause a ‘RESOURCE BURN.’ By implementing continual and non-related postings that distract and disrupt (trolling ) the forum readers they are more effectively stopped from anything of any real productivity. If the intensity of gradual dilution is intense enough, the readers will effectively stop researching and simply slip into a ‘gossip mode.’ In this state they can be more easily misdirected away from facts towards uninformed conjecture and opinion. The less informed they are the more effective and easy it becomes to control the entire group in the direction that you would desire the group to go in. It must be stressed that a proper assessment of the psychological capabilities and levels of education is first determined of the group to determine at what level to ‘drive in the wedge.’ By being too far off topic too quickly it may trigger censorship by a forum moderator.
Technique #4 – ‘INFORMATION COLLECTION’
Information collection is also a very effective method to determine the psychological level of the forum members, and to gather intelligence that can be used against them. In this technique in a light and positive environment a ‘show you mine so me yours’ posting is initiated. From the number of replies and the answers that are provided much statistical information can be gathered. An example is to post your ‘favourite weapon’ and then encourage other members of the forum to showcase what they have. In this matter it can be determined by reverse proration what percentage of the forum community owns a firearm, and or a illegal weapon. This same method can be used by posing as one of the form members and posting your favourite ‘technique of operation.’ From the replies various methods that the group utilizes can be studied and effective methods developed to stop them from their activities.
Technique #5 – ‘ANGER TROLLING’
Statistically, there is always a percentage of the forum posters who are more inclined to violence. In order to determine who these individuals are, it is a requirement to present a image to the forum to deliberately incite a strong psychological reaction. From this the most violent in the group can be effectively singled out for reverse IP location and possibly local enforcement tracking. To accomplish this only requires posting a link to a video depicting a local police officer massively abusing his power against a very innocent individual. Statistically of the million or so police officers in America there is always one or two being caught abusing there powers and the taping of the activity can be then used for intelligence gathering purposes – without the requirement to ‘stage’ a fake abuse video. This method is extremely effective, and the more so the more abusive the video can be made to look. Sometimes it is useful to ‘lead’ the forum by replying to your own posting with your own statement of violent intent, and that you ‘do not care what the authorities think!!’ inflammation. By doing this and showing no fear it may be more effective in getting the more silent and self-disciplined violent intent members of the forum to slip and post their real intentions. This can be used later in a court of law during prosecution.
Technique #6 – ‘GAINING FULL CONTROL’
It is important to also be harvesting and continually maneuvering for a forum moderator position. Once this position is obtained, the forum can then be effectively and quietly controlled by deleting unfavourable postings – and one can eventually steer the forum into complete failure and lack of interest by the general public. This is the ‘ultimate victory’ as the forum is no longer participated with by the general public and no longer useful in maintaining their freedoms. Depending on the level of control you can obtain, you can deliberately steer a forum into defeat by censoring postings, deleting memberships, flooding, and or accidentally taking the forum offline. By this method the forum can be quickly killed. However it is not always in the interest to kill a forum as it can be converted into a ‘honey pot’ gathering center to collect and misdirect newcomers and from this point be completely used for your control for your agenda purposes.
CONCLUSION
Remember these techniques are only effective if the forum participants DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THEM. Once they are aware of these techniques the operation can completely fail, and the forum can become uncontrolled. At this point other avenues must be considered such as initiating a false legal precidence to simply have the forum shut down and taken offline. This is not desirable as it then leaves the enforcement agencies unable to track the percentage of those in the population who always resist attempts for control against them. Many other techniques can be utilized and developed by the individual and as you develop further techniques of infiltration and control it is imperative to share then with HQ.
Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
Note: The first rule and last five (or six, depending on situation) rules are generally not directly within the ability of the traditional disinfo artist to apply. These rules are generally used more directly by those at the leadership, key players, or planning level of the criminal conspiracy or conspiracy to cover up.
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don’t discuss it – especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc. If it’s not reported, it didn’t happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.
Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the ‘How dare you!’ gambit.
Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such ‘arguable rumors’. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a ‘wild rumor’ from a ‘bunch of kids on the Internet’ which can have no basis in fact.
Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent’s argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary ‘attack the messenger’ ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as ‘kooks’, ‘right-wing’, ‘liberal’, ‘left-wing’, ‘terrorists’, ‘conspiracy buffs’, ‘radicals’, ‘militia’, ‘racists’, ‘religious fanatics’, ‘sexual deviates’, and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning – simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent’s viewpoint.
Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.
Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough ‘jargon’ and ‘minutia’ to illustrate you are ‘one who knows’, and simply say it isn’t so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.
Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man – usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with – a kind of investment for the future should the matter not be so easily contained.) Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually then be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues – so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.
Establish and rely upon fall-back positions. Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the ‘high road’ and ‘confess’ with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made – but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, ‘just isn’t so.’ Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later, and even publicly ‘call for an end to the nonsense’ because you have already ‘done the right thing.’ Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for ‘coming clean’ and ‘owning up’ to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.
Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.
Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards or with an apparent deductive logic which forbears any actual material fact.
Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10.
Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.
Vanish evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won’t have to address the issue.
Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can ‘argue’ with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.
Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can’t do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how ‘sensitive they are to criticism.’
Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the ‘play dumb’ rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations – as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.
Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor, or other empowered investigative body. Subvert the (process) to your benefit and effectively neutralize all sensitive issues without open discussion. Once convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be secret when properly handled. For instance, if you own the prosecuting attorney, it can insure a Grand Jury hears no useful evidence and that the evidence is sealed and unavailable to subsequent investigators. Once a favorable verdict is achieved, the matter can be considered officially closed. Usually, this technique is applied to find the guilty innocent, but it can also be used to obtain charges when seeking to frame a victim.
Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.
Create bigger distractions. If the above does not seem to be working to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of unstoppable events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them as such) to distract the multitudes.
Silence critics. If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of their character by release of blackmail information, or merely by destroying them financially, emotionally, or severely damaging their health.
Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen.
Eight Traits of the Disinformationist
Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.
Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a commentator become argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.
Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.
Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.
Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for ‘conspiracy theorists’ and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain.Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.
Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of ‘artificial’ emotionalism and an unusually thick skin – an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial.
Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the ‘image’ and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It’s just a job, and they often seem unable to ‘act their role in character’ as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later – an emotional yo-yo.
With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game – where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.
Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat ‘freudian’, so to speak, in that perhaps they really root for the side of truth deep within.
I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes itself and the author. For instance, one such player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education. I’m not aware of too many Navy pilots who don’t have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.
Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation:
a) ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT – FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth.
b) When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR – there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to ‘get permission’ or instruction from a formal chain of command.
c) In the NG example 1) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay – the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.
We fear things in proportion to our ignorance of them.
Christian Nestell Bovee
Next time someone preaches to you for not conforming, pose the question, tell me “What is a virus”.
Worth a look at these links for procurement in Scotland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0vyO3kU00w&t=5s
https://www.nhsscotlandprocurement.scot.nhs.uk/
Thank you Golfnut and BDTT!
jfngw
‘cremation street’
Nice one 🙂
Well the BBC continues as the BBC does. Reviewing their COVID news pages at 18:00
WORLD
UK death rate passes 15K
Trump
Hong Kong
Lesotho story
Christian Orthodox story
Germany virus under control
HOME
Parks and cemeteries stay open
Ethnic death tracking
PPE to front line
Policeman dies
UK
Councils to get more money
PPE to front line
Ethnic death tracking
Policeman dies
Queen cancels birthday
ENGLAND
Council more money
Ethnic death tracking
Getting kit to front line
Policeman dies
Queen cancels birthday
IRELAND
New figures
Police attacked
Dark days ahead
Recovery plan
WALES
Costs per month
Round up of stories
New numbers food vouchers
SCOTLAND
Deaths in Scotland rise with new numbers
20 care home deaths
Murder probe
Nursing body concerned at PPE
Concern over deliveries
So there you have it for today. There are UK numbers and no English numbers. The home death countries get numbers and Scotland gets the “ increase” treatment.
Where is two pictures Carlaw when you need to talk about bias
Ottomanboi
And when they answer
Its a microscopic parasite such as Ebola
What are you going to say?
Dorothy Devine
Hope you have learned something today.
Check the facts before you go in to ‘grievance mode’.
It doesn’t bode well for an independent Scotland.
@dakk
I think you mean effigy, but who am I not to steal someone’s thunder. Yes, it was me.
@willie Fleming
Can you not draft that into a bingo format we can pay on here with the usual suspect defectives ?
Play not pay.
As colonial administrators go, you have to hand it to oor Nicola, naebody can beat her at doing press conferences.
Those years of stringing us along, announcing she’ll make an announcement about an announcement before really scunnering the indy movement by announcing complete surrender over Scottish sovereignty, indyref and EU membership has been a good rehearsal.
She’s excellent at announcing bad news.
Well done Nicola!
Hi Pete says at 7:02 pm.
You typed,
“Dorothy Devine
Hope you have learned something today.
Check the facts before you go in to ‘grievance mode’.
It doesn’t bode well for an independent Scotland.”
I don’t understand your comment.
WHAT exactly “doesn’t bode well for an independent Scotland”?
@ Bdtt.
Hi, yep your absolutely bang on. There are few businesses carrying large stocks insitu, instead relying on just in time stock delivery, saves space and delays payment. It’s a good business model. There’s always a downside of course if a major player monopolized the manufacturing process, or in this case where probably a percentage of production is reserved for future use. This can, if there is a sudden surge in demand, cause shortages. The clue, staring everybody in the face that this is what has happened, is that the government has ordered the release of 28 million items of PPE. Now I’m old and cynical enough to suggest this was deliberate, more so, since they were cute enough to hide the fact they were excluding Scotland and Wales.
@ Pete.
Your an idiot, and I’m being kind restricting my observation to that.
@ jfngw
Credit where it’s due now.
Nice one Effijy 🙂
Ach, been out all day in the real world stimulating the ever important economy by carrying out essential maintenance and repair on a shitspreader at the local farm.
Then have a nosey on here to find Pete has been busy lobbing dung today.
Cannae believe he couldn’t have been more productive in aiding the failing economy that concerns him so much.
And to think last night he showed a hint of an open mind to considering other systems of operating that might sort the issues he himself highlighted.
I was looking forward to his input and suggestions to tackle education and inequality but it seems he can talk the talk but fails to walk the walk.
With so many different spokespersons, when is sensibledave, or maybe pete, going to host the daily stilted press conference on the EBC. Their wealth of useless knowledge would more than fit the bill.
Colin Alexander @7.14 pm
Absolutely correct about letting us down on Brexit,letting us down on indepedence.
But murderously wrong in going into lock step with Johnson, Cumming, Whitty and Valance to spread the virus to protect the economy.
Sturgeon, like Blair, like Johnson is a war criminal.
Breastplate says:
18 April, 2020 at 1:59 pm
Robbo,
I’m obviously in need of your sage advice, could you tell me why this lockdown is so perfect for you and everyone else?
—————–
So your advice is ,let’s open everything up,let the virus run riot,hope for herd immunity bollocks and let 100,s thousands,possibly millions die eh!
I’ve a challenge for you .Volunteer, go to your nearest hospital facility and say hello to the patients with coronavirus,shake some hands and take your chances like the Boris fool.Let us know how you get on if you survive?
When you don’t come back on,we’ll know.
I would have been more radical at beginning. I would have closed all airports for domestic passengers, you’ve got 3 days get back or your out!.I would have tested and screened temp checked etc at every airport and port. I would have set up border control at all border crossings into Scotland and done same. ONLY essential travel for imports/exports of food and medicines No Tourists,No Royalty
When this started, most of first infected had travelled as it was Chinese new year , so that needed nipping in bud at start but wasn’t, they kept coming.That’s all bye d bye now.We deal with what we have, warts and all.
Imagine this senario:-
Interpretation in a Higher English exam.
A Boris Johnson speech.
Dan
Sorry about today.
Your colleagues upset me a bit.
I’ll go back into positive mode tomorrow.
Willie 6.07
Hey Willie, just so I know, am I a suspect of being of the type described in your post?
Hi Pete.
Are you no’ gonnae answer the question?
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-greater-good/comment-page-1/#comment-2525977
Bdtt
If and when the Scottish people ever vote for independence the days of blaming England for everything that goes wrong will be long gone.
No more grievance culture.
Stand on our own two feet time.
There are things at the moment under devolution for which we have full responsibility but we still get folks on here like DD who can’t get grievance out of their mindset.
That is it for today
Those who seek constitutional justice are simply grievance monkeys. Thanks Pete, I’ll remember not to piss on you if you ever catch fire.
A little light reading for those who think a respect for the rule-of-law is optional. Especially the SNP hierarchy, who appear to have a bit of a God complex.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31499-5/fulltext
From the way the SNP appear to view constitutional law and women’s rights, I can tell the party is rotten all the way to the top.
People, planet, power
Towards a new social settlement
https://neweconomics.org/uploads/files/eafb0135c69d8a9152_yum6bt9zh.pdf
@ Willie Fleming
Your post should be deleted. That’s spam.
And BTW, copying and pasting only makes you look even more stupid.
Robbo,
you do realise you didn’t answer my question on specifically what was so perfect about this lockdown?
You remind me of the story a comedian told when asking directions while in Dublin, I think it was, local told him if you’re trying to get there, I wouldn’t start from here.
Now, you haven’t told me what was so good about this lockdown, you have told me this lockdown is rubbish because you would have made a better lockdown.
Do you understand that there are consequences for your decisions?
I also note from your comment that we seem to have different ideas on what mortality rate comes with Covid19.
Do you agree that people’s perspective on Covid19 correlates to what they perceive the mortality rate to be?
Cameron B @10:03.
I’m lost for words, talk about god complex!
This can only end in tears, let’s hope it’s theirs and not ours.
I.D.Smith Tory complaining to Stephen Nolan radio 5 presenter when asked some hard questions. (it’s no fair)(quite heated)
Has the Tory WM government let the NHS and Care Sector down badly about the corona virus situation. lack of PPE and should they apologise for the state the UK are in?
Blames China & WHO. Shuffles off after a mauling. Took one for the team.
Perhaps someone could tell Sunday Herald that Scotland is doing more testing, has more PPE, less deaths, more hospital beds, more doctors and more nurses than the NHS in England. The UK Tory gov dropped the ball months ago but yoons want to divert attention and comparisons with NHS England because it doesn’t suit their unionist agenda
Sharny Dubs
All I can do is hope that someone sorts them out, and reminds them they serve us and not rule over us.
Action starts tomorrow.
If you want to play your part, do so.
@Pete at 9.00pm
Focus man, Focus will ye. Time is of the essence and we cannae have you slacking off when important shiz is needing sorted.
I’ve no colleagues on here. I, like most other folk, am of independent mind, and merely stating words from my own perspective gained through the life I’ve lived.
On that note we all have to live, and importantly for your economic worries, work together, so we need to take an approach that reaches some sort of mutually consensual position, or it’ll just be a perpetual adversarial shit throwing conflict.
Last night you stated you had concerns about education and also inequality.
If you were being honest then these matters obviously rattle around your napper enough to warrant you mentioning them.
I’d hope by unburdening yourself and sharing your thoughts it would be the start of a journey where we can explore realistic methods of addressing the problems as you see them.
I’ll throw in just a little bit of my thoughts on education. I am of a mind that the current focus on academic achievements and attending Uni is misguided. It’s my view that we need a better balance between academia and more practical skills and vocations which could be achieved through apprenticeships.
Of course the nature of our current economy focuses on businesses making profit, so “wasting” money on some young new start needing trained is a stretch that often isn’t feasible when margins are tight.
This situation is also exacerbated because of the systematic trashing of many of our manufacturing industries by successive Westminster Governments.
Rev – please ban Willie Fleming
COVID-19 Protesters Just Like Rosa Parks, Says White House Adviser Stephen Moore
http://archive.is/CuKGI
All I need do now is get out my balaclava and assault rifle.
Then its the bus to Hollyrood — back seat, of course.
I’m sorry if I appear negative and hostile to the cause, but failing to defend Scotland’s soveriegnty undermines the fabric of international human rights law. This can be expected to undermine the international rule-of-law.
The Law of Nations and Treaty law are not optional decorations, they are essential to controlling state aggression and protecting human rights. I’m sure anyone who has a background in international human rights law and comparative constitutional law, will confirm this position.
What matters in health (care) universes:
delusions, dilutions, and ways towards universal health justice
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12992-019-0521-7
Had to laugh at english wummin government PPE official who told Sky News that the PPE that is arriving by plane from abroad might not meet UK health and safety standards.
This is the same english government officials who are telling Frontline hospital staff to wear the same sweaty soggy safety gear the next day after having worked in it all day trying to save Covid19 patients.
The fuckin hypocrisy of these bastards is mind blowing.
Open up your parks – remove the traffic cones, they have no legislation behind them.
But dump the cones near-by, so you are not accused of theft. Stay legal, stay safe, but protest.
Now is the time.
Alan Ferrier (@alanferrier) has tweeted a link to this Times article.
It’s quite a long read and utterly damming.
Please don’t read unless you feel you really need another solid reason to despise Johnson and his gang more than you do already.
https://archive.is/20200418182037/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh
I see #whereisboris is trending on twitter, give the man a break he still hasn’t completed that sudoko puzzle he started in hospital. As soon has he ‘gets sudoko done’ he will be taking a short holiday to recover from the strain of leadership.
My conspiracy theory for today is :-
I suspect John Nicolson, SNP MP and ex BBC reporter, is a Unionist plant.
MI5/6 trained a lot of BBC reporters so they could get easy access to foreign lands and also help guide news stories on the propaganda front.
It is since Nicolson cleared the vetting process to become an MP that Sturgeon seems to have lost her appetite for fighting for Independence.
It is since Nicolson became an MP that this man/woman debate really gripped the Party.
It is since he bacame an MP that indyRef2 has went tits up.
Coincidence or what?
Nicolson is also one of Andrew Neil’s useful idiots and s regular on his shows.
Would you want John Nicolson in the trenches with you if the fight for Independence took similar turn to that of Ireland’s fight for their freedom.
My answer would be a definite no!!!
@jackie
More of a weed than a plant, I’ve seen his lacklustre performance of TV.
And God Help Us All,,,
Johnson is returning to Frontline politics.
Nicola will be pleased.
@mike cassidy
To be fair the masked and gloved armed protester has better PPE to protect himself from the virus than that angry TSG police dude from the other day.
@Ian Brotherhood.
Will take your advice and not going to read it but guessing it might include aspects of this.
https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1251458390028664832
Jackie – and on that theme…..
I am going to go with C/2019 Y4 Atlas
Why not……it’s as good as any other conspiracy theory out there
@Dan –
Yes, you’re right. It does.
It’s rumoured has it Boris Johnson missed 5 cobra meetings because of his Ophidiophobia.
Oh well, buggered up that joke by messing up the sentence.
Treaty law is intentional law. UK constitutional law is considered national law, which is required to comply with international law. If national law does not comply with international law, it does not comply with international human rights law. British constitutional law fails to respect Treaty law, so can not be considered legally robust.
When will someone defend my human rights from the eugenics of English Torydum?
Uphold International Law
https://www.un.org/en/sections/what-we-do/uphold-international-law/
As it is Saturday here are a few comments about the fitba !
Congratulations to Brora for achieving promotion to the Scottish Leagues.
Derek Ferguson was the guest on (Off the Ball) tonight and he came across as a real good guy, family man, sense of humour, hard worker.As a Dons fan I am always quite critical of Rangers supporters but was impressed by Derek`s showing on the programme.
When Aberdeen won the League in 1955, for the first time, they were denied in competing in the European Cup by Hibs chairman, Swan, who was a member of the SFA. Same corruption, same skulduggery today. Hibs took Aberdeens position although they finished 5th in the league that year.
On this site most of us non trolls are very aware of the vast resources that the (small) country of Scotland possesses. Can I suggest that in the area of banter, craik and sense of humour Scotland is way out there!
When The Times writes a story such as they have for Sunday’s paper then it means the knives are out for Boris Johnson and his useless cabinet.
The men in grey suits are unhappy, the honeymoon is over alright.
The men in grey suits will tell Johnson when the lockdown will be lifted. He will comply.
@Ian Brotherhood
Thanks for posting the link to The Times article.
That’s the one I.D. Smith was getting interviewed on by Nolan on radio 5.
He eventually shimmered off in the huff after five minutes as the questions became to much for him to bear. 🙂
Hi Pete at 9:35 pm.
You typed,
“If and when the Scottish people ever vote for independence the days of blaming England for everything that goes wrong will be long gone.
No more grievance culture.
Stand on our own two feet time.”
From that statement, I can only assume that you believe that a resource-rich Scotland, in terms of natural, economic and human resources, would be a failure and looking for someone to blame for failure?
You really are sadly misinformed, are you not?
https://www.businessforscotland.com/scotland-is-one-of-the-worlds-most-naturally-wealthy-nations/
You’ll really have to back up your assertions with more credible assertions than your own(?) biased opinions.
The men in grey suits do wield a lot of power, especially the Treasury, which has to approve policy before it passes to legislation. One thing I still can’t figure out is how Brexit got to legislation, as there were no costed plans. Turning a blind eye to the rule-of-law is getting to be a bit of a habit for the Treasury, who played a significant role in supporting the union in 2014.
WGbYHJcMbz8
Virus news from overseas:
In le nouvel obs (French counterpart to the guardian):
testimony of 3 gps who claim to have saved their covid patients thks to a “homemade” cocktail as follows:
1/ antibiotic, you know the one used in the famous DR RAOULT experiments (Marseilles)
2/an anti asthma drug
3/fizzy zinc supplement as zinc helps the immune system and fizz makes it easier for the body to take up.
4/(optional) a small dose of Heparin an anticoagulant, when appropriate.
They claim to have reduced/eliminated their fatalities and hosp admissions.
one of the gp got sick and he took his own medicine!
otherwise there is discussion on the findings of italian doctor Giannini:
says ventilation useless as the virus engenders lots of micro thrombosis /blood clots in the lungs, patients need antcoagulation therapy before oxygen therapy.
AIMSIB say virus destroys hemoglobin component in the blood hence blood can no longer carry oxygen to cells.
AIMSIB suspect that patients taking anti hypertension and anti cholesterol drugs more at risk as these drugs make it easier for the virus to attach itself to receptors in body.
Recommend suspension of treatment or substitution of drugs.
AIMSIB say fats in blood (lipoproteins) protective, so do not spare the cod liver oil…/butter and cream for now..
On the subject of how the virus came about,AIMSIB analysis was the first to suggest it came from the virus observatory lab in wuhan.They know security is lax there, and that they keep bats in there too…They feel certain was accident, no conspiracy…
To clear up confusion there are TWO labs in Wuhan, one for bio warfare 12km away from animal market, and the virus study lab right behind it 300m away.
Prof Montagnier from Pasteur Institute claims virus was part of an attempt at an HIV vaccine.
Finally: note that the above info/theories have not made it in the British press/media
Hi Effijy.
Is this what you meant?
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=113729410010221&story_fbid=245235176859643
Fuck it, I’m posting the whole Times article that IanB posted, the Observer has a similar breakdown and byline times did a breakdown the other day of the utterly catastrpohic response from UK gov and the real mess we are in because of their total failure to take this fucking thing seriously at crucial ‘moments’ that would have altered the obscene number of fatalities that we are now witnessing:
‘The Times
18 Apr 2020 18:20:37 UTC
Coronavirus: 38 days when Britain sleepwalked into disaster
Boris Johnson skipped five Cobra meetings on the virus, calls to order protective gear were ignored and scientists’ warnings fell on deaf ears. Failings in February may have cost thousands of lives’
On the third Friday of January a silent and stealthy killer was creeping across the world. Passing from person to person and borne on ships and planes, the coronavirus was already leaving a trail of bodies.
The virus had spread from China to six countries and was almost certainly in many others. Sensing the coming danger, the British government briefly went into wartime mode that day, holding a meeting of Cobra, its national crisis committee.
But it took just an hour that January 24 lunchtime to brush aside the coronavirus threat. Matt Hancock, the health secretary, bounced out of Whitehall after chairing the meeting and breezily told reporters the risk to the UK public was “low”.
This was despite the publication that day of an alarming study by Chinese doctors in the medical journal, The Lancet. It assessed the lethal potential of the virus, for the first time suggesting it was comparable to the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, which killed up to 50 million people.
Unusually, Boris Johnson had been absent from Cobra. The committee — which includes ministers, intelligence chiefs and military generals — gathers at moments of great peril such as terrorist attacks, natural disasters and other threats to the nation and is normally chaired by the prime minister.
Johnson had found time that day, however, to join in a lunar new year dragon eyes ritual as part of Downing Street’s reception for the Chinese community, led by the country’s ambassador.
It was a big day for Johnson and there was a triumphal mood in Downing Street because the withdrawal treaty from the European Union was being signed in the late afternoon. It could have been the defining moment of his premiership — but that was before the world changed.
Rising risk
That afternoon his spokesman played down the looming threat from the east and reassured the nation that we were “well prepared for any new diseases”. The confident, almost nonchalant, attitude displayed that day in January would continue for more than a month.
Johnson went on to miss four further Cobra meetings on the virus. As Britain was hit by unprecedented flooding, he completed the EU withdrawal, reshuffled his cabinet and then went away to the grace-and-favour country retreat at Chevening where he spent most of the two weeks over half-term with his pregnant fiancée, Carrie Symonds.
It would not be until March 2 — another five weeks — that Johnson would attend a Cobra meeting about the coronavirus. But by then it was almost certainly too late. The virus had sneaked into our airports, our trains, our workplaces and our homes. Britain was on course for one of the worst infections of the most deadly virus to have hit the world in more than a century.
Last week, a senior adviser to Downing Street broke ranks and blamed the weeks of complacency on a failure of leadership in cabinet. In particular, the prime minister was singled out.
“There’s no way you’re at war if your PM isn’t there,” the adviser said. “And what you learn about Boris was he didn’t chair any meetings. He liked his country breaks. He didn’t work weekends. It was like working for an old-fashioned chief executive in a local authority 20 years ago. There was a real sense that he didn’t do urgent crisis planning. It was exactly like people feared he would be.”
Inquiry ’inevitable’
One day there will inevitably be an inquiry into the lack of preparations during those “lost” five weeks from January 24. There will be questions about when politicians understood the severity of the threat, what the scientists told them and why so little was done to equip the National Health Service for the coming crisis. It will be the politicians who will face the most intense scrutiny.
Among the key points likely to be explored will be why it took so long to recognise an urgent need for a massive boost in supplies of personal protective equipment (PPE) for health workers; ventilators to treat acute respiratory symptoms; and tests to detect the infection.
Any inquiry may also ask whether the government’s failure to get to grips with the scale of the crisis in those early days had the knock-on effect of the national lockdown being introduced days or even weeks too late, causing many thousands more unnecessary deaths.
An investigation has talked to scientists, academics, doctors, emergency planners, public officials and politicians about the root of the crisis and whether the government should have known sooner and acted more swiftly to kick-start the Whitehall machine and put the NHS onto a war footing.
They told us that, contrary to the official line, Britain was in a poor state of readiness for a pandemic. Emergency stockpiles of PPE had severely dwindled and gone out of date after becoming a low priority in the years of austerity cuts. The training to prepare key workers for a pandemic had been put on hold for two years while contingency planning was diverted to deal with a possible no-deal Brexit.
This made it doubly important that the government hit the ground running in late January and early February. Scientists said the threat from the coming storm was clear. Indeed, one of the government’s key advisory committees was given a dire warning a month earlier than has previously been admitted about the prospect of having to deal with mass casualties.
It was a message repeated throughout February but the warnings appear to have fallen on deaf ears. The need, for example, to boost emergency supplies of protective masks and gowns for health workers was pressing, but little progress was made in obtaining the items from the manufacturers, mainly in China.
Instead, the government sent supplies the other way — shipping 279,000 items of its depleted stockpile of protective equipment to China during this period, following a request for help from the authorities there.
Impending danger
The prime minister had been sunning himself with his girlfriend in the millionaires’ Caribbean resort of Mustique when China first alerted the World Health Organisation (WHO) on December 31 that several cases of an unusual pneumonia had been recorded in Wuhan, a city of 11 million people in Hubei province.
In the days that followed China initially claimed the virus could not be transmitted from human to human, which should have been reassuring. But this did not ring true to Britain’s public health academics and epidemiologists who were texting each other, eager for more information, in early January.
Devi Sridhar, professor of global public health at Edinburgh University, had predicted in a talk two years earlier that a virus might jump species from an animal in China and spread quickly to become a human pandemic. So the news from Wuhan set her on high alert.
“In early January a lot of my global health colleagues and I were kind of discussing ‘What’s going on?’” she recalled. “China still hadn’t confirmed the virus was human-to-human. A lot of us were suspecting it was because it was a respiratory pathogen and you wouldn’t see the numbers of cases that we were seeing out of China if it was not human-to-human. So that was disturbing.”
By as early as January 16 the professor was on Twitter calling for swift action to prepare for the virus. “Been asked by journalists how serious #WuhanPneumonia outbreak is,” she wrote. “My answer: take it seriously because of cross-border spread (planes means bugs travel far & fast), likely human-to-human transmission and previous outbreaks have taught overresponding is better than delaying action.”
Events were now moving fast. Four hundred miles away in London, from its campus next to the Royal Albert Hall, a team at Imperial College’s School of Public Health led by Professor Neil Ferguson produced its first modelling assessment of the likely impact of the virus. On Friday, January 17, its report noted the “worrying” news that three cases of the virus had been discovered outside China — two in Thailand and one in Japan. While acknowledging many unknowns, researchers calculated that there could already be as many as 4,000 cases. The report warned: “The magnitude of these numbers suggests substantial human-to-human transmission cannot be ruled out. Heightened surveillance, prompt information-sharing and enhanced preparedness are recommended.”
By now the mystery bug had been identified as a type of coronavirus — a large family of viruses that can cause infections ranging from the common cold to severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars). There had been two reported deaths from the virus and 41 patients had been taken ill.
The following Wednesday, January 22, the government convened its first meeting of its scientific advisory group for emergencies (Sage) to discuss the virus. Its membership is secret but it is usually chaired by the government’s chief scientific adviser, Sir Patrick Vallance, and chief medical adviser, Professor Chris Whitty. Downing Street advisers are also present.
There were new findings that day with Chinese scientists warning that the virus had an unusually high infectivity rate of up to 3.0, which meant each person with the virus would typically infect up to three more people.
One of those present was Imperial’s Ferguson, who was already working on his own estimate — putting infectivity at 2.6 and possibly as high as 3.5 — which he sent to ministers and officials in a report on the day of the Cobra meeting on January 24. The Spanish flu had an estimated infectivity rate of between 2.0 and 3.0, so Ferguson’s finding was shocking.
The professor’s other bombshell in the same report was that there needed to be a 60% cut in the transmission rate — which meant stopping contact between people. In layman’s terms it meant a lockdown, a move that would paralyse an economy already facing a battering from Brexit. At the time such a suggestion was unthinkable in the government and belonged to the world of post-apocalypse movies.
The growing alarm among scientists appears not to have been heard or heeded by policy-makers. After the January 25 Cobra meeting, the chorus of reassurance was not just from Hancock and the prime minister’s spokesman: Whitty was confident too.
In early February Hancock proudly told the Commons the UK was one of the first countries to develop a new test for the virus.
In early February Hancock proudly told the Commons the UK was one of the first countries to develop a new test for the virus
“Cobra met today to discuss the situation in Wuhan, China,” said Whitty. “We have global experts monitoring the situation around the clock and have a strong track record of managing new forms of infectious disease . . . there are no confirmed cases in the UK to date.”
However, by then there had been 1,000 cases worldwide and 41 deaths, mostly in Wuhan. A Lancet report that day presented a study of 41 coronavirus patients admitted to hospital in Wuhan which found that more than half had severe breathing problems, a third required intensive care and six had died.
And there was now little doubt that the UK would be hit by the virus. A study by Southampton University has shown that 190,000 people flew into the UK from Wuhan and other high-risk Chinese cities between January and March. The researchers estimated that up to 1,900 of these passengers would have been infected with the coronavirus — almost guaranteeing the UK would become a centre of the subsequent pandemic.
Sure enough, five days later on Wednesday, January 29, the first coronavirus cases on British soil were found when two Chinese nationals from the same family fell ill at a hotel in York. The next day, the government raised the threat level from low to moderate.
The pandemic plan
On January 31 — or Brexit day as it had become known — there was a rousing 11pm speech by the prime minister promising that the withdrawal from the European Union would be the dawn of a new era unleashing the British people who would “grow in confidence” month by month.
By this time, there was good reason for the government’s top scientific advisers to feel creeping unease about the virus. The WHO had declared the coronavirus a global emergency just the day before and scientists at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine had confirmed to Whitty in a private meeting of the Nervtag advisory committee on respiratory illness that the virus’s infectivity could be as bad as Ferguson’s worst estimate several days earlier.
The official scientific advisers were willing to concede in public that there might be several cases of the coronavirus in the UK. But they had faith that the country’s plans for a pandemic would prove robust.
This was probably a big mistake. An adviser to Downing Street with extensive knowledge of Britain’s emergency preparations — speaking off the record — says their confidence in “the plan” was misplaced. While a possible pandemic had been listed as the No 1 threat to the nation for many years, the source says that in reality it had long since stopped being treated as such.
Several emergency planners and scientists said that the plans to protect the UK in a pandemic had once been a top priority and had been well-funded for a decade following the 9/11 terrorist attacks in 2001. But then austerity cuts struck. “We were the envy of the world,” the source said, “but pandemic planning became a casualty of the austerity years when there were more pressing needs.”
The last rehearsal for a pandemic was a 2016 exercise codenamed Cygnus which predicted the health service would collapse and highlighted a long list of shortcomings — including, presciently, a lack of PPE and intensive care ventilators.
But an equally lengthy list of recommendations to address the deficiencies was never implemented. The source said preparations for a no-deal Brexit “sucked all the blood out of pandemic planning” in the following years.
In the year leading up to the coronavirus outbreak key government committee meetings on pandemic planning were repeatedly “bumped” off the diary to make way for discussions about more pressing issues such as the beds crisis in the NHS. Training for NHS staff with protective equipment and respirators was also neglected, the source alleges.
Members of the government advisory group on pandemics are said to have felt powerless. “They would joke between themselves, ‘Haha let’s hope we don’t get a pandemic,’ because there wasn’t a single area of practice that was being nurtured in order for us to meet basic requirements for pandemic, never mind do it well,” said the source.
“If you were with senior NHS managers at all during the last two years, you were aware that their biggest fear, their sweatiest nightmare, was a pandemic because they weren’t prepared for it.”
It meant that the government had much catching up to do when it was becoming clear that this “nightmare” was becoming a distinct possibility in February. But the source says there was little urgency. “Almost every plan we had was not activated in February. Almost every government department has failed to properly implement their own pandemic plans,” the source said.
One deviation from the plan, for example, was a failure to give an early warning to firms that there might be a lockdown so they could start contingency planning. “There was a duty to get them to start thinking about their cashflow and their business continuity arrangements,” the source said.
Superspreader
A central part of any pandemic plan is to identify anyone who becomes ill, vigorously pursue all their recent contacts and put them into quarantine. That involves testing and the UK initially seemed to be ahead of the game. In early February Hancock proudly told the Commons the UK was one of the first countries to develop a new test for the coronavirus. “Testing worldwide is being done on equipment designed in Oxford,” he said.
So when Steve Walsh, a 53-year-old businessman from Hove, East Sussex, was identified as the source of the second UK outbreak on February 6 all his contacts were followed up with tests. Walsh’s case was a warning of the rampant infectivity of the virus as he is believed to have passed it to five people in the UK after returning from a conference in Singapore as well as six overseas.
But Public Health England failed to take advantage of our early breakthroughs with tests and lost early opportunities to step up production to the levels that would later be needed.
This was in part because the government was planning for the virus using its blueprint for fighting the flu. Once a flu pandemic has found its way into the population and there is no vaccine, then the virus is allowed to take its course until “herd immunity” is acquired. Such a plan does not require mass testing.
A senior politician told this newspaper: “I had conversations with Chris Whitty at the end of January and they were absolutely focused on herd immunity. The reason is that with flu, herd immunity is the right response if you haven’t got a vaccine.
“All of our planning was for pandemic flu. There has basically been a divide between scientists in Asia who saw this as a horrible, deadly disease on the lines of Sars, which requires immediate lockdown, and those in the West, particularly in the US and UK, who saw this as flu.”
The prime minister’s special adviser Dominic Cummings is said to have had initial enthusiasm for the herd immunity concept, which may have played a part in the government’s early approach to managing the virus. The Department of Health firmly denies that “herd immunity” was ever its aim and rejects suggestions that Whitty supported it. Cummings also denies backing the concept.
The failure to obtain large amounts of testing equipment was another big error of judgment, according to the Downing Street source. It would later be one of the big scandals of the coronavirus crisis that the considerable capacity of Britain’s private laboratories to mass-produce tests was not harnessed during those crucial weeks of February.
CORONAVIRUS
Below target
“We should have communicated with every commercial testing laboratory that might volunteer to become part of the government’s testing regime but that didn’t happen,” said the source.
The lack of action was confirmed by Doris-Ann Williams, chief executive of the British In Vitro Diagnostics Association, which represents 110 companies that make up most of the UK’s testing sector. Amazingly, she says her organisation did not receive a meaningful approach from the government asking for help until April 1 — the night before Hancock bowed to pressure and announced a belated and ambitious target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of this month.
There was also a failure to replenish supplies of gowns and masks for health and care workers in the early weeks of February — despite NHS England declaring the virus its first “level four critical incident” at the end of January.
It was a key part of the pandemic plan — the NHS’s Operating Framework for Managing the Response to Pandemic Influenza dated December 2017 — that the NHS would be able to draw on “just in case” stockpiles of PPE.
But many of the “just in case” stockpiles had dwindled, and equipment was out of date. As not enough money was being spent on replenishing stockpiles, this shortfall was supposed to be filled by activating “just in time” contracts which had been arranged with equipment suppliers in recent years to deal with an emergency. The first order for equipment under the “just in time” protocol was made on January 30.
However, the source said that attempts to call in these “just in time” contracts immediately ran into difficulties in February because they were mostly with Chinese manufacturers who were facing unprecedented demand from the country’s own health service and elsewhere.
This was another nail in the coffin for the pandemic plan. “It was a massive spider’s web of failing, every domino has fallen,” said the source.
The NHS could have contacted UK-based suppliers. The British Healthcare Trades Association (BHTA) was ready to help supply PPE in February — and throughout March — but it was only on April 1 that its offer of help was accepted. Dr Simon Festing, the organisation’s chief executive, said: “Orders undoubtedly went overseas instead of to the NHS because of the missed opportunities in the procurement process.”
Downing Street admitted on February 24 — just five days before NHS chiefs warned a lack of PPE left the health service facing a “nightmare” — that the UK government had supplied 1,800 pairs of goggles and 43,000 disposable gloves, 194,000 sanitising wipes, 37,500 medical gowns and 2,500 face masks to China.
A senior department of health insider described the sense of drift witnessed during those crucial weeks in February: “We missed the boat on testing and PPE . . . I remember being called into some of the meetings about this in February and thinking, ‘Well it’s a good thing this isn’t the big one.’
“I had watched Wuhan but I assumed we must have not been worried because we did nothing. We just watched. A pandemic was always at the top of our national risk register — always — but when it came we just slowly watched. We could have been Germany but instead we were doomed by our incompetence, our hubris and our austerity.”
In the Far East the threat was being treated more seriously in the early weeks of February. Martin Hibberd, a professor of emerging infectious diseases at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, was in a unique position to compare the UK’s response with Singapore, where he had advised in the past.
“Singapore realised, as soon as Wuhan reported it, that cases were going to turn up in Singapore. And so they prepared for that. I looked at the UK and I can see a different strategy and approach.
“The interesting thing for me is, I’ve worked with Singapore in 2003 and 2009 and basically they copied the UK pandemic preparedness plan. But the difference is they actually implemented it.”
Working holiday
Towards the end of the second week of February, the prime minister was demob happy. After sacking five cabinet ministers and saying everyone “should be confident and calm” about Britain’s response to the virus, Johnson vacated Downing Street after the half-term recess began on February 13.
He headed to the country for a “working” holiday at Chevening with Symonds and would be out of the public eye for 12 days. His aides were thankful for the rest, as they had been working flat out since the summer as the Brexit power struggle had played out.
The Sunday newspapers that weekend would not have made comfortable reading. The Sunday Times reported on a briefing from a risk specialist which said that Public Health England would be overrun during a pandemic as it could test only 1,000 people a day.
Johnson may well have been distracted by matters in his personal life during his stay in the countryside. Aides were told to keep their briefing papers short and cut the number of memos in his red box if they wanted them to be read.
His family needed to be prepared for the announcement that Symonds, who turned 32 in March, was pregnant and that they had been secretly engaged for some time. Relations with his children had been fraught since his separation from his estranged wife Marina Wheeler and the rift deepened when she had been diagnosed with cancer last year.
The divorce also had to be finalised. Midway through the break it was announced in the High Court that the couple had reached a settlement, leaving Wheeler free to apply for divorce.
There were murmurings of frustration from some ministers and their aides at the time that Johnson was not taking more of a lead. But Johnson’s aides are understood to have felt relaxed: he was getting updates and they claim the scientists were saying everything was under control.
400,000 deaths
By the time Johnson departed for the countryside, however, there was mounting unease among scientists about the exceptional nature of the threat. Sir Jeremy Farrar, an infectious disease specialist who is a key government adviser, made this clear in a recent BBC interview.
“I think from the early days in February, if not in late January, it was obvious this infection was going to be very serious and it was going to affect more than just the region of Asia ,” he said. “I think it was very clear that this was going to be an unprecedented event.”
By February 21, the virus had already infected 76,000 people, had caused 2,300 deaths in China and was taking a foothold in Europe with Italy recording 51 cases and two deaths the following day. Nonetheless Nervtag, one of the key government advisory committees, decided to keep the threat level at “moderate”.
Its members may well regret that decision with hindsight and it was certainly not unanimous. John Edmunds, one of the country’s top infectious disease modellers from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, was participating in the meeting by video link but his technology failed him at the crucial moment.
Edmunds wanted the threat level to be increased to high but could not make his view known as the link was glitchy. He sent an email later making his view clear. “JE believes that the risk to the UK population [in the PHE risk assessment] should be high, as there is evidence of ongoing transmission in Korea, Japan and Singapore, as well as in China,” the meeting’s minutes state. But the decision had already been taken.
Peter Openshaw, professor of experimental medicine at Imperial College, was in America at the time of the meeting but would also have recommended increasing the threat to high. Three days earlier he had given an address to a seminar in which he estimated that 60% of the world’s population would probably become infected if no action was taken and 400,000 people would die in the UK.
By February 26, there were 13 known cases in the UK. That day — almost four weeks before a full lockdown would be announced — ministers were warned through another advisory committee that the country was facing a catastrophic loss of life unless drastic action was taken. Having been thwarted from sounding the alarm, Edmunds and his team presented their latest “worst scenario” predictions to the scientific pandemic influenza group on modelling (SPI-M) which directly advises the country’s scientific decision-makers on Sage.
It warned that 27 million people could be infected and 220,000 intensive care beds would be needed if no action were taken to reduce infection rates.
The predicted death toll was 380,000. Edmunds’s colleague Nick Davies, who led the research, says the report emphasised the urgent need for a lockdown almost four weeks before it was imposed.
The team modelled the effects of a 12-week lockdown involving school and work closures, shielding the elderly, social distancing and self-isolation. It estimated this would delay the impact of the pandemic but there still might be 280,000 deaths over the year.
Johnson returns
The previous night Johnson had returned to London for the Conservatives’ big fundraising ball, the Winter Party, at which one donor pledged £60,000 for the privilege of playing a game of tennis with him.
By this time the prime minister had missed five Cobra meetings on the preparations to combat the looming pandemic, which he left to be chaired by Hancock. Johnson was an easy target for the opposition when he returned to the Commons the following day with the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, labelling him a “part-time” prime minister for his failure to lead on the virus crisis or visit the areas of the UK badly hit by floods.
By Friday, February 28, the virus had taken root in the UK with reported cases rising to 19 and the stock markets were plunging. It was finally time for Johnson to act. He summoned a TV reporter into Downing Street to say he was on top of the coronavirus crisis.
“The issue of coronavirus is something that is now the government’s top priority,” he said. “I have just had a meeting with the chief medical officer and secretary of state for health talking about the preparations that we need to make.”
It was finally announced that he would be attending a meeting of Cobra — after a weekend at Chequers with Symonds where the couple would publicly release news of the engagement and their baby.
On the Sunday, there was a meeting between Sage committee members and officials from the Department of Health and NHS which was a game changer, according to a Whitehall source. The meeting was shown fresh modelling based on figures from Italy suggesting that 8% of infected people might need hospital treatment in a worst-case scenario. The previous estimate had been 4%-5%.
“The risk to the NHS had effectively doubled in an instant. It set alarm bells ringing across government,” said the Whitehall source. “I think that meeting focused minds. You realise it’s time to pull the trigger on the starting gun.”
Many NHS workers have been left without proper protection
At the Cobra meeting the next day with Johnson in the chair a full “battle plan” was finally signed off to contain, delay and mitigate the spread of the virus. This was on March 2 — five weeks after the first Cobra meeting on the virus.
The new push would have some positive benefits such as the creation of new Nightingale hospitals, which greatly increased the number of intensive care beds. But there was a further delay that month of nine days in introducing the lockdown as Johnson and his senior advisers debated what measures were required. Later the government would be left rudderless again after Johnson himself contracted the virus.
As the number of infections grew daily, some things were impossible to retrieve. There was a worldwide shortage of PPE and the prime minister would have to personally ring manufacturers of ventilators and testing kits in a desperate effort to boost supplies.
The result was that the NHS and care home workers would be left without proper protection and insufficient numbers of tests to find out whether they had been infected. To date 50 doctors, nurses and NHS workers have died. More than 100,000 people have been confirmed as infected in Britain and 15,000 have died.
A Downing Street spokesman said: “Our response has ensured that the NHS has been given all the support it needs to ensure everyone requiring treatment has received it, as well as providing protection to businesses and reassurance to workers. The prime minister has been at the helm of the response to this, providing leadership during this hugely challenging period for the whole nation.”
Coronavirus:
Plane carrying PPE kits arrives in Scotland from China
https://archive.is/jqQfp
🙂
The Times article is damning enough, but Johnson’s “Superman” speech in February is something to make your eyes water too.
https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1251458390028664832
It would appear the UK under Boris had a strategy that deliberately intended to cynically exploit the global panic caused by COV19, and adopt what can only be described as raw and rampant disaster capitalism, rampant parasitism while the world economy was distressed by pandemic, for financial gain, and with no regard whatsoever for the health of the UK people. What a fkg scum sucking lowlife.
I wish I had the legal training to know whether this constitutes actual criminal negligence. Get the rotten f*!”&er in jail.
It isn’t just an enquiry we need, it might be a full on criminal prosecution for the dereliction of responsibility which has caused the avoidable deaths of thousands of people.
I don’t know how Tories have the brass neck to show their poisonous grasping faces in public. Utterly, utterly loathsome vermin.
The Bubonic plague was spread by rats. Seems UK Coronavirus was spread by Tory rats.
Tories are simply intellectually and ideologically opposed to the principle of equality. “Herd immunity” in response to a highly virulent and deadly pathogen, is pure social Darwinism and incompatible with best-practice standards in public health. Criminal prosecutions are needed, but are unlikely in an age of neo-liberal justice.
The first responsibility we have as humans, is to protect our health and the health of others. This lead to the moral obligation of “justified self-preservation”. Standing under British constitutional law conflicts absolutely with these obligations. So how much longer will Scotland allow English Torydum to define our nation’s potential?
Full text.
Human Rights, International Economic Law and ‘Constitutional Justice’
https://academic.oup.com/ejil/article/19/4/769/349342
I bit more of that world view I was given access to.
From Self-Preservation to Cosmopolitan Friendship:
Kant and the Ascent of Love
http://www.kant-online.ru/en/?p=933
CameronB Brodie says:
19 April, 2020 at 3:10 am
Tories are simply intellectually and ideologically opposed to the principle of equality…
It’s not just equality. The World is facing a global pandemic, and Boris Johnson’s first instinct is how to dip it’s pocket.
Good on Ivan and all who contributed to getting that equipment into our country. 🙂
K1 says:
19 April, 2020 at 3:58 am
Good on Ivan and all who contributed to getting that equipment into our country. ?
Agreed 100%
And thanks to China too. A good friend to Scotland in need, and may the disgraceful self centred English suppliers of PPE hang their heads in shame.
@ Breeks
You need look no further than Sunak’s reported comment. He apparently believes ‘ than England should leave the UK to maximise profit ‘
@ CBB.
Treaty/Contract law trumps domestic law, and repeat.
Breeks at 0307 am,
Yip. Totally agree. It is the old ‘let them die’ mentality as espoused by the sociopathic, Tory creep-in-chief, Dominic Cummings. Their attitude was very much one of ‘well these folk are going to die anyway’, because at that point they were thinking, COVID only killed older folk, with multiple co-morbidities. Now, of course we now know that is NOT the case. Many very talented healthy folk of ALL ages have died from this pandemic, doctors, nurses, scientists, teachers, care assistants.
The likes of Dominic Cummings and Boris De Pfeffle, likely view such folk as ‘collateral damage’. It is clear that Trumpo does.
Money, money, money, that is all the effing Tories care or think about. Greedy, greedy capitalist pigs, oink, oink. If I were a Tory right now, I’d hang my head in shame. They truly are the scum of this earth.
In other matters, it is so very, very clear that the cartoon above has really gotten under the skin of the 77th brigade and London-worshipping unionists. Look how rapidly the unionist trolls were firing out multiple inane and frankly vacuous comments yesterday, in order to disrupt the BTL comments. They must have private polling data showing a surge in support for independence.
Some times, in the way they play their hand, they give their game away. Their constant barrage of nonsense, can only mean one thing, support for indy is up. Good news, indeed. They really are feart.
Breastplate says:
18 April, 2020 at 10:07 pm
Robbo,
you do realise you didn’t answer my question on specifically what was so perfect about this lockdown?
You remind me of the story a comedian told when asking directions while in Dublin, I think it was, local told him if you’re trying to get there, I wouldn’t start from here.
Now, you haven’t told me what was so good about this lockdown, you have told me this lockdown is rubbish because you would have made a better lockdown.
Do you understand that there are consequences for your decisions?
I also note from your comment that we seem to have different ideas on what mortality rate comes with Covid19.
Do you agree that people’s perspective on Covid19 correlates to what they perceive the mortality rate to be?
————————–
Dribble
You need to read again what i said. We are where we are,warts and all. I’m not the PM or FM, so i don’t have that honour to make decisions like that.
Mortality rate.Are you fucking nuts? You really think the rate would have been good with heard immunity bollocks and just to let it run riot throughout the world. This hasn’t even started yet, once it takes hold in Africa and India it will be millions!.
anyone read this ?
https://consortiumnews.com/2020/04/16/covid-19-vietnam-winning-new-war-against-invisible-enemy
Astonished to hear BBC News say “serious shortages of PPE
KIT have only applied to England’
Why is The National, and other Scottish newspapers, allowing a UK Government Stay at Home wrap around thus diluting any distinctive Scottish news while right wing UK papers can spew their bile unchallenged on the newsstands.
Meanwhile virulent anti SNP columnist Michael Clackin pleads for gulliable readers to continue to pay for his output
Thanks for the link Brian,
It’s the same topic but the link I tried to post
Was a great TV Interview.
Robbo,
There you go again, telling me this lockdown is rubbish but we should all suck it up and not even dare criticise this model.
Unlike you, I’m happy to answer any of your reasonable questions, I have nothing to feel defensive about.
Also, at no point have I insisted we let the virus “run riot”, that just shows you do not understand my position which I have already set out a number of times on here.
Again, one of the reasons people see politicians as unscrupulous is that they try to avoid answering questions either because they don’t know the answer or they don’t want us to know the answer.
So, if it’s possible for you, why not answer the questions I asked you in my previous comment because I have more for you when or if you do, reasonable and pertinent ones of course.
As I’ve said I’m more than happy to answer any of your reasonable and pertinent questions, how fair is that?
Remember to restrain yourself when you feel compelled to portray mindless pish as my stance.
Uriah Gove on Sky advising that the Tories have done
Everything right, at the right time and took all the scientific advice??
States Bojo leadership to be inspirational? FFS
Grovelling lying Bastard and the scientists are in your pocket
Doing what you tell them.
Effijy@ 8.52
Spot on.
Radio Scotland so called paper review is now a Katie Grant personal ego trip and no indy journalist again despite 50% support.
People in Scotland are really starting to see how one sided this so called unfair Union is, speaking to my neighbors yesterday from a good distance, they’ve voted conservative most of their voting life and they were speaking about the virus and the way the english conservatives have handled the ppe shortage and were actually speaking about independence being the only future for Scotland, must be thousands of others thinking the same, it’s looking good in one respect.
Most people in Scotland knew Boris Johnson was a male version of Ruth Davidson, all photo op, empty rhetoric, MSM promotion and the power of a magician to disappear when the going gets tough.
The people of England fell for it because they wanted an entertainer rather than an actual Prim Minister.
This is where the Scotgov need to step up to the plate and ensure they protect the people of Scotland, my only concern is will they have the financial clout to do what is required when WM controls the purse string of most of the contingency spending.
Without agreeing that this site is now full of bots, trolls and agent provocateurs, it certainly has become a pit of vipers.
Willie Fleming’s contribution identifies the kind of behaviours these individuals exhibit when plying their trade. It is also a good analysis of disruptive behaviour in groups.
Those offended because they feel it also applies to them might want to reflect briefly on how they make their contributions on this site.
I no longer recommend it for the breadth and depth of its below the line input. If some intend that result then they have succeeded.
If you genuinely believe your input is adding substance without denigrating others, if you really intend debate without destroying the movement for independence – then some of you need to think more before you type.
I very seldom contribute – and may others I used to enjoy have likewise cut back. Whether I agreed or not their contributions were different in tone and content from what I slog through now.
Going down to the pub for a barroom brawl is not a substitute for a lively discussion. The strength of your opinion is not improved by the violence of your language.
@Sinky
I think the papers are taking these adverts because they need the money, their physical sales have probably hit the floor. They may never recover as once you stop buying a paper many never bother going back.
The bad news is their survival is now in the hands of the government and its supporters, don’t expect anything too critical unless the funding stops. Some are now positioning against Johnson, especially those that wanted a different leader in the first place.
Will he declare himself too damaged by the virus to return to being PM, it’s an easy way out for him now. And the hard Brexit Tories now have a majority they probably could not have obtained without him (in England).
I still find it hard to get my head around the absence of checks at UK airports.
The UK government is passing the buck to Public Health England.
The Scottish Government is passing the buck to Health Protection Scotland
http://archive.is/2dOgG
K1 last night. Thank you for posting that article in full. Damning to say the least
We are not in lockstep with England during this crisis, we are in chainstep. England controls all the money and the spending the other three nations have effectively just to follow the masters steps. If we go a different route without the cash to do it then expect the majority of businesses to collapse in Scotland as there will be no money to compensate them.
If any believe Scotland can do this without the financial control then they are just shouting at the moon. Of course this is manna from heaven for the Britnats, either route can be used against the SNP, they could have gone their own way or they have collapsed the Scottish economy.
Some just see this as an extension to attack Nicola Sturgeon because of resentment about other matters, some that claim to be independence supporters. I understand the pain but there is a time and place and it’s not now.
Anyone who thinks we need things to ‘settle down’ before we start an Indy campaign is kidding themselves. Things won’t go back to the way they were in the aftermath of this virus. Things won’t settle down. We have already seen neocons being invited on to radio Scotland to talk about ‘belt tightening’ (austerity) and of course there is the Tory brexit.
The tories have the emotional intelligence of HAL 9000 and will plough on regardless of people’s livelihoods. So we need to plough on with Indy. I believe the papers may take a more favourable view of labour now they have a banker friendly Blairite at the helm who will of course make promises to Scotland whilst opposing indyref. We can expect a new wooing.
These tmes of uncertainty and disruption is exactly when we should be moving of in our own direction. And no I’m not saying right now during the pandemic but there is a lot of planning we COULD be doing whilst sitting at home. The other side won’t be sitting still.
Oh here we go… Bill gates mass vaccination program gamble ramping up! When does a billionaire computer nerd become a health expert? … hmm.
@Dave Robb
Willie’s posting is just a loooooong generic piece on identifying the many traits and tactics used to disrupt any particular online discussion.
Stu runs this site and has the capability to block folk, but as I understand it he is an advocate for free speech so it is generally pretty rare for someone to get blocked.
That being the case many diverse points of view and opinion are posted on here from fair or foul sources. I’ll interact with other folk as and when I see fit as it offers me the opportunity and training to develop my abilities to counter their positions.
If some of these folk posting are the brightest and best military grade 77th disruptive weapons then what better way to hone my own skills in dealing with slippery individuals.
Offer counter views or troll the troll’s positions if that is how you see them and expose them for all to see.
I understand constant streams of sniping is tedious to wade through, but the odd clean metaphorical sniper shot has its place.
It’s a bit cringey but “all it takes for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”.
You mention yourself and others no longer post regularly on here, and that you don’t recommend the site to others now.
That in itself could be construed as an attempt to further diminish the site as anyone still here is shite or nothing is worth reading.
Someone recently said this: “ If you genuinely believe your input is adding substance without denigrating others, if you really intend debate without destroying the movement for independence – then some of you need to think more before you type“
Dan . Well said.
Anyway…to try and think of contructive ways to push independace forward. We need to do this. It would be a mistake to take our eyes off the ball knowing that Brexit full force is just round corner. This pandemic is a terrible situation but it is also a great distraction dont forget. Is there something we can do together at a similar scale.of a huge AUOB march but remotely using technology? … Maybe we need to be creative but also effective! Anyome got any ideas?
I will.start the ball.rolling….(just ideas mind) ….
First idea… we currently have a regular thursday slot for supporting health workers…..can we do a.similar scotland wide.display/effort for.independance?
Katie. Like shining a torch skywards. Ie. The light of freedom is coming. If that took off, wonder how long the msm would ignore it.
Crazycat, interesting note on the french doctors findings.
Capella, had some more info from the London medical Professor via my friend. He is convinced it is man made and from America. (That ties in with the links I posted from the Czech lab and the earlier cases in Ft Belvoir nursing homes last July) It seems to be designed to target Asians and America didnt expect to get blowback.
The virus also appears to not completely disappear after recovery. It can remain as headaches and is leading to encephalitis.
I note that Sky and Trump are pushing the Wuhan lab escape narrative. Perhaps people should consider Fort Detrick as well.
In other news looks like the US might be wanting another war. Biggest buildup of forces in the Caribbean since 1989(Panama)
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-builds-naval-forces-caribbean-pressure-campaign-against-maduro?fbclid=IwAR3HXWdSH_fGybAFBTxLVAIoFX3AkJyqLn2IL7fg7dcmn1rsdbl3kp4alE0
Thats a great idea mike! If we do something like that.. we just need to all agree a date and time. Maybe oneday when it gets dark… about 10 pm ish?
Katie. One aspect that comes to mind is more of a conversational point, in that previously it was stated by unionists that Scotland making the return to being an independent Nation would cause uncomfortable disruption to our lives.
Well that disruption would be nothing in the scheme of things when compared to what we are experiencing now.
If people prove capable of adapting and dealing with the large amount of negative impacts resulting from this lurgy situation, then transitioning to independence should be a far easier matter.
Well worth a read.
Both illuminating and sad.
A Beloved Bar Owner Was Skeptical About the Virus. Then He Took a Cruise.
http://archive.is/kQt6b
Dan, yes I think you are spot on! There is no way that us becoming independant would lead to more disruption that we have. However even if it does we will be more used to dealing with disruption and therefore we can use it as a strength, basically saying that disruption or threat of more will.not stop us and doesnt scare us!
I really think its more important than ever to demonstrate that we will not be held back and we are not scared! To be honest I think the alternative is far scarier. I have a feeling (although some might say I am just paraniod) if we stay with status quo then its only matter of time before we are involved in UK wide coming from WM program to be involved in a possibly unsafe forced vaccination program enforcing us to use technolody/apps take away or freedoms to express ourselves (but will.done under the guise of keeping us safe). We also need to somehow realise this and say that we want freedom for our country and not accept theseimposed controls!
Sorry if this sounds daft and paraniod….but I have a bad feeling about it all .. maybe just lockdown madness!
Lots of folk assuming a cure or vaccine will be found within this year or next,
yet they have not found a cure/vaccine for the `cold sore` virus yet,
@Katie 11:06am
‘Is there something we can do together at a similar scale.of a huge AUOB march but remotely using technology?’
Form an independence party?
Yeah Scott, they haven’t… however whos to say that the vaccine program that we might end up being subjected to actually contains a cure / protection against anything? Thry are allready taking about an ‘app’ that will probably end up being compulsory that no doubt will be linked to this vaccination and used in ways to get info from us we can only immagine! Scary times… although like I said before it maybe is lockdown madness paranioa on my part. Think its still a good idea to try to be positive and continue to support indy in constructive ways. I like the torch idea! Would be great if we could get everyone to stand together and do something.
@ Katie: I’m with you on this. We almost won last time – surely there is no real doubt that we will win now whatever the circumstances?
The powers of the UK government are frightening enough in normal times – now they are terrifying. We MUST make a move to take back control of Scotland’s affairs urgently.
See some online want testing and isolation at Scottish airports, seems pointless to me, if I wanted to come to Scotland and avoid the testing and isolation I would just fly to England and take public transport or drive up here.
If you can’t control your borders you don’t really control anything
I should like to thank the people who are helping the elderly who get their shopping and prescriptions etc., some of them are complete strangers but come to help those who need it yes these angels who come in the guises of men and women God bless you all I thank you
@Republic of Scotland:
“Yes China were reluctant to quickly inform the WHO, until several whistleblowers revealed the extent of the outbreak, or thereabouts…”
Unfortunately this only goes to show how even people disposed to looking for the truth can easily be manipulated into spreading lies.
It wasn’t “whistleblowers” who informed the WHO. It was the Chinese authorities, who did it as soon as they reasonably could (Dec 31) – as soon as they had confirmed that they were dealing with cases of pneumonia of an unknown etiology, and before they had actually verified that they were dealing with a new coronavirus. It wasn’t even until January 11 that they had their first confirmed death.
And incidentally, Li Wenliang the “whistleblower” wasn’t “silenced”. He was reprimanded for spreading information about the outbreak via a WeChat group (equivalent of Whatsapp) before there was any real understanding of what they were dealing with.
Given that literally everybody in China uses WeChat, the risk of mass panic if rumours of something like that start to spread, and the difficulty of containing such rumours once they start to spread, the sanction hardly appears unreasonable.
Li Wenliang was honoured as “a hero” in a recent book published by China about the fight against the coronavirus. Dont hold your breath waiting for that to happen to Julian Assange.
Katie says:
19 April, 2020 at 11:06 am
….got any ideas?
I will.start the ball.rolling….(just ideas mind) ….
One Lawyer, (‘one’ in the sense the Declaration of Arbroath was written by ‘one’ Abbot), writing letters to the UN and Council of Europe petitioning them to recognise Brexit constitutes unlawful subjugation and the 1707 Treaty of Union and arbitrary convention of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty has been formally breached and the Treaty is void.
That’s the ball which I would roll.
But it needs the right people to be giving it the shove… I’m thinking Joanna Cherry as new SNP leader and Scottish First Minister who takes no prisoners and has twice laid down the law already and put Westminster in its place.
One caveat, but it’s a big one. The SNP might very soon be a bin fire, a proper cat fight between wokists, Salmond Conspirators, and Nicola die hard acolytes telling us all to stand back and marvel at the 51% in the polls they’ve delivered after six years.
Maybe a new Indy Party, if it’s done correctly, might be the new broom we need to sweep clean. But that has a big caveat too… because a New Indy Party with no seats in any parliament MIGHT be less credible than a devolved Government when it came to petitioning the UN.
I say MIGHT be less credible, but Craig Murray has some very interesting things to say about such a pro Independence might successfully petition the UN anyway.
The important distinction is this… a NEW country would be petitioning for International Recognition from a standing start, and would need something akin to democratic status for it’s arguments to be heard.
I do not believe however Scotland would be in that category. Scotland has existed. Scotland has Nation Status. Scotland has a defining Constitution which boasted International recognition for over 400 years.
Scotland does not need International Recognition to create a new Nation, but merely adequate recognition that when we kill off a rotten, broken, and frequently flouted, asymmetric Treaty of Union, that the International Community will agree and accept the Union is dead, and restore to Scotland the rights and respects properly accorded to a sovereign and legally constituted Nation.
Essentially, we need the 1320 Declaration of Arbroath to “refresh it’s vows” with modern International Community, for be in no doubt, whatever the protestations, 300 years on Union DID NOT extinguish Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution as a Nation, and the recent subjugation of Scotland through Brexit emphatically demolished any illusions about the Union being anything else but a colonial usurpation of sovereignty contrary to International Law.
Our Independence is right there, in our grasp, if only we can find the courage, and “one” lawyer, to grasp it’s legal ramifications and get it done.
Some of you will say, “Ah, but that’s unjust and cheats democracy!”.
No. It’s the very polar reverse. Out democracy has already been cheated by our subjugation through Brexit, and that is why we need to overturn what is unjust.
Do you see it yet? Do you see this is where we win the liberty of our Nation?
We can tick the box for democracy any time we want by holding a ratification plebiscite whenever we like. WE DO NOT NEED A REFERENDUM to defend the integrity of our legal constitution.
Stop this insufferable procrastination and aimless vacillation under Sturgeon. It simply courts disaster. Make her do the right thing or get rid of her SNP. That is your choice, and it is that simple.
Katie and Mike
Could we arrange satalite photo of Scotland during torch for indy
Other shouts online, no new admissions to care homes unless they can be proved virus free. What exactly do they intend to do with these people that require to go to a care home, just leave them alone without the support they need, let them stay in hospital taking up beds and nursing time.
Lots of spurious online anger without any thought through solutions. Those that see solutions as simple without thinking through the consequences of their simple solution.
Iain Macwhirter has certainly gone down in my estimation during this crisis, he has written some real pish with cheap headlines and tweets that take no more than a second to debunk. He is no new to the trade journalist, he must know some of the stuff he is punting is not achievable whilst still in the UK.
@ John, mike and sarah Sattelite pic of ‘torch for indy’ This is a great idea!
We need to think how we can organise something like this and make people know about it after we decide on a date and time.
@ Breeks, yes a letter idea good too but maybe we need to all write same thing and mass post to same person.
Lets try and stick together during this time and do what we can while we can.
Lets think how we can get a plan together. It might be that it isnt effective but how will be know if we dont try!
Lets use this lockdown situation as constructively and creatively as we can and stick together for independance!
Lets keep.ideas coming and ok we might not be able to do them.at once but even if we all get together and try one thing at a time. If its enough to get noticed then it will show everyone we have NOT forgot about indy. We WONT stop fighting for it and we WONT be kept down or fogotten lockdown or not!
Right im gonna put my thinking cap.on for now and go and take my daily excercise. No idea at this stage is too crazy or small and lets keep.open mind!
Flightradar24
NW England, W Scotland and NW Scotland – somebody is looking for something – skies being traversed for hours by 3 privately owned aircraft.
No rain last night, but cars covered in dirt.
Another tragic Corona Virus mike stone tomorrow
When Belgium becomes the First Nation to reach
500 deaths per million of population.
It leaves you wondering if a figure like that might be only the half way mark?
“Unfortunately this only goes to show how even people disposed to looking for the truth can easily be manipulated into spreading lies.”
Well Stonky its a matter of which opinion/s you choose to believe, not everyone in the WHO thinks China acted honourably as soon as they could, secret and authorative states like China hide all sorts of data, such as executions and the disgraceful way they’ve persecute the Rohingya muslims, not to mention Tibet and the Dia Lama.
http://archive.fo/UJUs0
“Li Wenliang was honoured as “a hero” in a recent book published by China about the fight against the coronavirus. ”
Yes I’m sure he was, but first he was summoned to the Public Security Bureau where he was told to sign a letter. In the letter he was accused of “making false comments” that had “severely disturbed the social order”. A short time later he died of the virus if I’m correct, like I said secretive and authoritarian, which isn’t big on freedom of speech.
@hundredthidiot
Could they perhaps be spraying something?
Came across a private plane on same app last week which belonged to a company which agencies subcontracted to do land surveying /spraying etc.
Can’t remember name of company.
Oh, Look everybody,
You can trade goods and services without having neoliberal ideologues telling you the amount households and businesses can save and what interest they get on their savings.
Budget deficits and Debt to GDP were not even asked
https://mobile.twitter.com/SunScotNational/status/1251779314699448321/photo/1
So Croatia could trade with the neoliberal ideologues in the EU. The EU want to control how Croatia use their skills and real resources.
Let’s use the 2015 Croatia corrective arm, convergence program. That they must adhere to.
Budget deficit of 5.7% of GDP has a target of 5% but still well above the 3.5% we were looking for.
With the main aim of 2.3% by 2018
Sounds reasonable if you are neoliberal or liberal metropolitan middle class nut job that reads Bella. Bella is bird seed for the liberals with their art degrees.
However, That is only the liability side of the balance sheet. Once you look at the asset side of the balance sheet everything becomes clear.
To trade with the EU. Scotland like Croatia assets would be dedtroyed.
Croatia household and business surplus of 5.7% of GDP has a target of 5% but still well above the 3.5% we were looking for.
With the main aim of Croatia household and business savings to be destroyed to 2.3% by 2018
Now Croatia household and business savings are in deficit. Being pushed into the hands of bankers to take out more l oans.
Good luck with that you are going to need all the luck you can get.
EFTA is no different.
What has street lighting in Bergen for to do with trade?
What has Who runs energy companies in Reykjavik to do with trade ?
http://www.eftasurv.int/state-aid/state-aid-register/decisions/
Nothing apart from neoliberals want to control them.
Scotland with their own currency can create as many blips as they like and swap as many assets as they want to get the job done.
As long as their are enough skills and real resources to absorb the
a) government spending
b) Tax cuts
c) or both
As Sunak has proved both the EU and EFTA were not needed. They are unimportant when it comes to independence. Unless, you want the neoliberals to control your skills and real resources.
You win a civil war and the white farmers get thrown off the land and you hand the farms to the freedom fighters who do not know how to farm
Your production drops by 70% but you spend the same or increase wages for doing nothing apart from sit on the farm roof
That is UBI.
Another shit show by the SNP.
Dan – Indeed not all is shite – which is why I still read it.
I think carefully before I type – I did on this occasion because of an appeal further up to have Mr Fleming censored by Stu.
Coincidentally, there seemed to be less shite (imho) after his piece.
I don’t have a problem with long pieces – I skip them if I can’t be bothered. I would just prefer that disagreement should avoid being excessively personal, particularly with our own side.
As you say, you can tackle what you want – I agree, a good sniper headshot is very effective. Some prefer blunderbuss despite collateral damage – I’m less convinced by that.
Keep on keeping on.
All Scotland needs is leadership that does not place parochial politics above the rule-of-law.
Self-Determination Integral to Basic Human Rights, Fundamental Freedoms, Third Committee Told as It Concludes General Discussion
https://www.un.org/press/en/2013/gashc4085.doc.htm
The common weal are quickly becoming a laughing stock not only do they lie about the corrective arm and EU convergence programs.
Never, has there been a better example of NOT understanding how things work than the Scottish National investment bank.
In a long list of NOT understanding. It makes you shake your head in disbelief.
It is just plain vanilla deficit spending. That is why fools are dangerous.
Spent years on the Scottish national investment bank.
For what ?
Plain vanilla deficit spending !
Independence movement filled with idiots are becoming a running joke.
http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2015/09/corbynomics-101-its-the-deficit-stupid.html
Somebody should ask the common weal how they plan to introduce
a) The policies in their Library
b) A green new deal
c) UBI
Once they are signed up to the EU corrective arm and convergence program.
Scottish independence at the heart of Europe.
There is an oxymoron if ever there was one.
Indy voters support it because they failed the brexit IQ test.
Sunak has shown how ” you pay for it ”
Pay for anything you choose to pay for.
Derek Henry
I think you might be using whataboutery to undermine our confidence, during a period of uncertainty. That’s not very nice.
Can we try an boil things down to basics? Can I ask you if you believe in the legal equality of individuals?
The Common Weal has always been a laughing stock, to me at least. They’re like the Lib Dems, they can promise the Earth because they’ll never be in a position to do anything about it, thank heavens!
Why do people give them even a modicum of credibility by mentioning them? When I think about Scottish independence, I NEVER even consider the Common Weal!
UBI is PERFECT for now and the future and you’re experiencing the reasons for that right now.
People object to UBI because they presume that people are lazy and won’t want to work.
Well, here we are in lockdown and people are climbing the walls, desperate to get out the house, back to work, get out and about.
So that gives the lie to the idea that giving people UBI would encourage them just to sit about the house doing nothing all day.
It’s an opportunity to make a lot more money than they’re currently making because they can get a job and make money over and above what they receive via UBI. Taxes and NI would still be getting paid.
UBI is actually an incentive to work but it’s also a safety net because it hands power back to the workers. If you hate your boss or hate your job, you can tell them to stick it and just leave. That encourages the employers to treat their employees a bit more reasonably.
I could go on, but you catch my drift. It’s a win-win for everyone, including the government.
Unfortunately, it’s also the very antithesis of Tory ideology, so will never get implemented as long as they’re running the show.
Golfnut
Kind of difficult to forget that, I’d have thought. 😉
The Principle of Self-Determination
in International Law
https://scholar.smu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4243&context=til
Derek Henry says:
19 April, 2020 at 1:13pm
There is an
oxymoron if ever there was one….Fixed that typo for you… 😉
Mist001 says:
19 April, 2020 at 1:17 pm
The Common Weal has always been a laughing stock, to me at least. They’re like the Lib Dems
The Common Weal is a think tank. It’s a factory for ideas, some are very good, some miss the mark, some stimulate discussion and invite constructive debate. It’s a bit like wandering around market where some stalls are interesting, others aren’t for you.
By comparison with the shite and propaganda which Tory and Labour “Think Tanks” produce, which are flat, banal, and part of the sophistry frequently presented as “independent” references which aren’t independent at all, but the myth of their disinterested perspective is used to orchestrate or manipulate a narrative.
Reclaim the definition of a think tank, and the Common Weal fits the definition very well. It does what it says on the tin.
Derek Henry is a new recruit to the cause of destroying this site and it’s aspirations for independence..
His ramblings and lack of any concrete argument put him in the lower intelligence category but it is true that the trolls are now a damaging part of what was a stimulating and inspiring site a few years ago. Sometimes the dross posted by dopey trolls like him make up the greater part of Wings these days.
Why didn’t the Common Weal exist before 2014?
Couldn’t anybody think before then?
BBC shortbread:
The Scottish government has released the latest figures on coronavirus cases in Scotland.
8,187 positive cases confirmed, an increase of 367, from 39,612 tests.
1,797 patients in hospital, an increase of four.
174 people in intensive care, a decrease of eight.
10 deaths in the last 24 hours of patients who have tested positive for Covid-19, bringing the total – under that measurement – to 903.
*Wider figures released this week suggest the total number of deaths – including those in care homes and the community – is well over 1,000.
Ahundredthidiot 13.38
It will be the drone I ordered to search for, and take out, Cammy’s internet connection.
Another day of English/British nationalist incompetence. Another day for liar and coward Johnson to hide under his bed-sheets.
The shitty, so-called united kingdom is dying; time put it out of its manky misery.
@Republic of Scotland
You’re right to take me to task on Li Wenliang, because he was obliged to sugn a letter agreeing that he had been “spreading false rumours”.
But your immediate resort to comments about “executions” and “Rohingya” and “Tibet and the Dalai Lama” suggests to me that you have a bit of an agenda going on here.
So I’m going to lay a lttle bet with myself here, that’s worth £50 to Craig Murray if I’m wrong. My bet is that you’ve never so much as set foot in China, for even a minute.
And now I’ve got two questions for you:
1. You’re perfectly well aware that the MSM’s job is to spout lies at you all day, every day, on every issue under the sun. Why is it that you’re so desperate to believe that everything they’re telling you is the truth when they start talking about China?
2. How would you feel if you met a Chinaman one day who had mever been closer to Scotland than Shanghai, and he started explaining to you that Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to be independent, and the best solution for Scotland is to remain in the UK with the Queen as head of state, and he knows all this because he read it in the papers?
Now that you’ve absorbed the main course of Westminster incompetence courtesy of the Sunday Times
How about the pudding.
Operation Last Gasp indeed.
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1251434219139665920
IMHO, Scotland needs a champion to protect our legal and political rights from constitutional authoritarianism. Simples.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/70f2/fb6568579ff4b7261cb3eb9ea7094278055d.pdf
There is a large swath of the law that appears to be opaque to Scotland’s government.
International Constitutional Law
https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199796953/obo-9780199796953-0039.xml
I think that’s the cause of their legal parochialism.
Full text.
Embracing the tension between national and international human rights law:
The case for discordant parity
https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/15/1/36/3068319
In what independence scenario does Scotland stop its farmers from farming? None.
In what way can Scotland be compared to Zimbabwe. None – unless you’re a retarded tory prick just trying to stir the shit : that nikla sturgeon shes a fucken comminist so she is.
The common weal are a talking shop, nothing more. They are not the last word on anything, nor the first.
Here is an idea : make work ILLEGAL to those without a license; make licenses scarce, something you have to buy.
UBI should cover basic human needs – you can live on it just fine, but it’s not great; see how people react. Most people cannot abide the genteel sloth of the wannabe-intellectual, they need to do things.
Post lockdown, everyone will be going nuts to do all the things they could not do before; this could result in an economic boom if managed correctly – but it won’t, because the cunts will still be in charge.
BBC figures reported deaths form their web sites today.
Scotland…….today 10……..total…..903
Wales……….today 41……..total…..575
N. Ireland…..today 01……..total…..194
England……..today (no figures as usual)
———————————————
UK…………today 596……..total 16060
———————————————
Using data above England today = 596 – 52 = 544.
If we go down a different route than England of test, trace and isolate I can see this becoming an area of conflict with the UK gov. The governor general has already shot out his warning about going down this route.
The test, trace, isolate cannot work if our border is open to those that are not following this process. will the Scotgov demand everyone coming into Scotland to be tested or refused entry. Will WM try and over-ride this and undermine Scotland’s attempt to control the virus spread. It could be a crunch time for the Scotgov, their powers and in effect everyone in Scotland, will we accept that London can demand a higher death toll here.
@jfngw
You may well be right there. Pushing the envelope in these circumstance may be just the thing.
Can’t see a downside, WM stops us and that’s on their head.
WM steps aside and it goes ahead folk will notice N & S of the wall. Border checks for health reasons who would quibble. 🙂
PS:
I see the jam tomorrow Turkey flight did not fly.
Maybe we can send some Scottish stuff darn Sarf if we can spare a little?
BBC England figures posted:
The number of people to have died in hospitals in England with Covid-19 has risen to 14,400.
This is an increase of 482 on Saturday’s published total, NHS England figures show.
Of the newly announced deaths, there were 118 on Saturday, 243 on Friday and 62 on Thursday, with the rest having died on other days.
Three of those announced today died in March.
The figures released by the NHS do not cover people who died in care homes or anywhere other than hospitals.
I enjoyed the “White Farmers” being displaced analogy from a visiting empire person. That would make people in Scotland wishing for Scotland to be run by people in Scotland for the benefit of people in Scotland something like wee brown people getting uppity towards our British Nationalist betters.
I enjoy the insistence that these people are superior to all others. Unfortunately their delusional attitude is supplemented by a pathological hatred capable of every crime against a people who disagree with them and their deviant behaviour. It is their very history that tells us it cannot be underestimated as to how low , how depraved , how in humane our Britnat occupation force are happy to be .
Our uk education apartheid system is globally unique in its endurance and success in protecting and perpetuating the inheritance of privilege.
Scotland cannot be ‘allowed’ to be independent. It is too integral. The uk wide selection of Britnat, be they from Ireland, Wales ,Scotland or England will not allow it. Greater England needs Scotland.
We are poking a wounded rabid beast , the worst the world has seen* . Do not doubt that if we think they are holding back or damaging Scotland now it does not compare to the scorched earth policy they will unleash if their abnormal psychology deems it preferable.
Otherwise, thanks for the positive, constructive contributions. Though I do think the torch idea won’t work with satellite images. As it is , much of Scotland is in darkness due to population spread and the densely populated areas are already illuminated by street lights .
*happy to debate that
Hmm..John.. maybe you have got a point about the street lights etc. a shame tho coz I did really like that idea! ..Do you think we try and find out bty trying it out or maybe go for something else… we need something simple that every one can do but effective so it can be noticed. Whatever we plan to do maybe we should try and suggest it to AUOB as they will know how to publicise it and spread the word.
Katie, Breeks Dan & others,
I can only hope that the various ideas and proposals that you floated are going to be worked on with a view to getting momentum behind them – with or without the backing of the snp leadership.
Boris Johnson who thought his time in office was to be defined by his ‘gift’ of Brexit, instead he will go down in history as the PM that delivered the gift of death, many thousands of them unnecessary.
Being able to scan media in languages other than English the probable economic collapse of many countries is becoming evident. Years of advances in ‘third world’ poverty alleviation have been in a couple of weeks wiped out and all on the basis of an apocalyptic forecast for the virulence of the SARS CoV-2 novel virus based on a model promoted by the WHO, an organization with inappropriate financial links to the pharmaceutical industry.
Governments will likely fall, and deservedly so, but their leaders ability to bolt for the undergrowth to escape punishment for this fiasco is also likely.
The only stats worth attention are the speeding taximeter recording the bill for this exercise, the eyewatering debt accumulation and more importantly countries, communities and lives needlessly sacrificed.
Expect a recrudescence of extremism.
Lest we forget, the UK was the one of the best, if not the best, prepared for a pandemic prior to 2010. This NHS running down, privatisation and funding cuts was done hand in hand with the LibDem’s between 2010-15. We will remember them.
Tell me if I’m wrong but the last couple of days there have been rumours of schools opening up…from where…the press.
Then today Gavin Alexander Williamson CBE MP Secretary of State for Education since 2019 is taking the heat on the daily update.
I think that’s a deflection planned in advance to talk on not very much and to let the ‘big hitters in the cabinet to avoid standing there wringing their hands in embarrassment about what they should be answering questions about.
The virus and the story in The Times and the PPE and the testing scandal.
Gavin Alexander Williamson is being sacrificed and taking one for that team of other shysters afraid to face the public on the tv. 🙁
Feel quite sorry for him, poor sod! Well not really. 🙂
Friend Requests
See all
Fiona Anderson
6 mutual friends
ConfirmDelete
Angie Mullen
22 mutual friends
ConfirmDelete
Scott Sibbald
4 mutual friends
ConfirmDelete
English (UK) · English (US) · Polski · Español · Português (Brasil)
Privacy · Terms · Advertising · AdChoices · Cookies ·
More
Facebook © 2020
Bill McGlen
Yesterday at 13:53 ·
???
An interesting comment from article in National today. You couldn’t make it up ???
Henrick Hauptmann
Who are Supply Chain Coordination Limited(SCCL)
Established on 1 April 2018 as a limited company wholly owned by the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, Matt Hancock, Supply Chain Coordination Limited (SCCL) is the management function of the NHS Supply Chain.
Establishment and Ownership of the Company ( from their web site)
SCCL was established on the 25th of July 2017 as a private company limited by shares under the Companies Act 2006 with the intention that it should function as the in-house management function of the NHS Supply Chain. In my capacity as Secretary of State and sole shareholder I ( Matt Hancock) wholly own the company and have control over its activities.
B. Purpose of the Company
The nature of business of SCCL as stated in its records at the Companies House is general public administration activities. Its “Business” as defined in its Articles of Association is “the management and co-ordination of NHS supply chain services, including procurement, logistics, e-Commerce, reporting, analysis, quality control, communications, payments, supplier management, emergency response and consultancy services for the provision of everyday hospital consumables, clinical products, home-care and capital equipment and associated services and supplies”.
The point in digging this out is to show that Matt Hancock , as Secretary of State and sole shareholder wholly owns this company and has control over its activities. So if this is the company that is “the management and co-ordination of NHS supply chain services, including procurement, logistics, e-Commerce, reporting, analysis, quality control, communications, payments, supplier management, emergency response and consultancy services for the provision of everyday hospital consumables, clinical products, home-care and capital equipment and associated services and supplies”. He is responsible at least in England for the chaos of there not being kit in the right place. Frankly , I am surprised that no-one has asked him about this company he set up about two years ago. It is he who has been saying for about a month that there are logistics problems ,but I don’t think that anyone realises that it is his company causing the problem.
https://www.sccl.nhs.uk/
Breeks
Have you ever read this?:
“I reserve my opinion with regard to the provisions relating expressly to this Court and to the laws “which concern private right” which are administered here. This is not such a question, but a matter of “public right” (articles 18 and 19).
To put the matter in another way, it is of little avail to ask whether the Parliament of Great Britain “can” do this thing or that, without going on to inquire who can stop them if they do.
Any person “can” repudiate his solemn engagement but he cannot normally do so with impunity. Only two answers have been suggested to this corollary to the main question.
The first is the exceedingly cynical answer implied by Dicey (Law of the Constitution, (9th ed.) p. 82) in the statement that “it would be rash of the Imperial Parliament to abolish the Scotch law courts, and assimilate the law of Scotland to that of England. But no one can feel sure at what point Scottish resistance to such a change would become serious.”
The other answer was that nowadays there may be room for the invocation of an ‘advisory opinion’ from the International Court of Justice. On these matters I express no view.
This at least is plain, that there is neither precedent nor authority of any kind for the view that the domestic Courts of either Scotland or England have jurisdiction to determine whether a governmental act of the type here in controversy is or is not conform to the provisions of a Treaty, least of all when that Treaty is one under which both Scotland and England ceased to be independent states and merged their identity in an incorporating union.
From the standpoint both of constitutional law and of international law the position appears to me to be unique, and I am constrained to hold that the action as laid is incompetent in respect that it has not been shown that the Court of Session has authority to entertain the issue sought to be raised”.
and it goes on: “LORD CARMONT: I am in agreement with the views expressed by the Lord President and have nothing to add”.
Lord Russell: “…. On the hypothetical question as to the power that might be exercised by this Court in relation to an Act passed which infringed such provisions as article 19 or article 25 of the Treaty of Union I desire to reserve my opinion”.
Gibson v. Lord Advocate (1975) SC 136 – Outer House (first instance)
LORD KEITH:”…Like Lord President Cooper, I prefer to reserve my opinion what the position would be if the United Kingdom Parliament passed an Act purporting to abolish the Court of Session or the Church of Scotland or to substitute English law for the whole body of Scots private law.
I am, however, of opinion that the question whether a particular Act of the United Kingdom Parliament altering a particular aspect of Scots private law is or is not “for the evident utility” of the subjects within Scotland is not a justiciable issue in this Court.
The making of decisions upon what must essentially be a political matter is no part of the function of the Court, and it is highly undesirable that it should be.
The function of the Court is to adjudicate upon the particular rights and obligations of individual persons, natural or corporate, in relation to other persons or, in certain instances, to the State. A general inquiry into the utility of specific legislative measures as regards the population generally is quite outside its competence”.
Source of my quotations above:
http://ouparc.com/static/5c0e79ef50eddf00160f35ad/casebook_17.htm
What I take from the above is that if you argue breach of the Treaty of Union or Scottish sovereignty in Scots Law in Scottish law courts, Scottish judges are very inclined to cover their ears and in effect say :
“la la la la la, don’t ask me about this; I don’t want to get involved: it’s too political”.
But highlighting one part of an answer given:
“The other answer was that nowadays there may be room for the invocation of an ‘advisory opinion’ from the International Court of Justice. On these matters I express no view”.
John D says:
19 April, 2020 at 4:15 pm
“I enjoyed the “White Farmers” being displaced analogy from a visiting empire person”
(I wouldn’t mind displacing some of the farmers who put up these dirty big “No Thanks X” posters in their fields.)
Indeed, who knows what precious lessons might be learned from the De-colonisation of the colonies.
Take Uganda, for instance.
Just like here in the UK, the head of state claims to be the hereditary ruler of Scotland.
Their leader was a big brash oafish chap, who was at first dismissed as a harmless buffoon.
Country decides to Brexit.
Then they chuck out all the foreign workers.
And their jovial president turns to canabalism
Even Westminster recognises the British constitution as a piece of fossilized law that was inadequate to modern demands. They were in the process of re-codifying it along the lines of a written constitution, then the blue and yellow Tories decided to give us austerity and Brexit instead.
Scotland really should not be punished for the lack of legal modernity in British constitutional legal practice.
The Cambridge Companion to Comparative Constitutional Law
Part III – Constitutional Principles
11 – Human Rights Law
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/cambridge-companion-to-comparative-constitutional-law/human-rights-law/D64A2DA456A40BC08EC8AA8155DA62CA
jfngw says:
19 April, 2020 at 3:23 pm
The test, trace, isolate cannot work if our border is open to those that are not following this process….
Correct.
Lockdown to my way of thinking should have been like the honeycomb in a beehive. Everywhere is shut down, every cell isolated from the next.
Then, you methodically work out where you’re priority cells are: the areas you need opened up fastest; your transport hubs for essential movement, your critical supply lines, your health teams and your incident response teams…
When a cell is entered with a view to declaring it safe, you test, test, test, for virus. If it’s virus free, you can ease movement in the cell a little, but you cannot simply test once, but keep testing continually and be ready to reimpose the lockdown if virus is detected. But you test and quarantine everybody from outside the cell who wants in. If you don’t test negative, you don’t get in.
If you’re not going to operate a cordon to control movement in and out your safe zone, then you do not have a safe zone, because you do not have containment.
If you do not have rigorous, and virtually instantaneous testing for the presence or virus or symptoms, then you do not have a safe zone because you don’t know if there is latent virus present.
When we all saw footage of China and Korea in lockdown, we saw people being filtered through checkpoints… they were having their temperature taken, they were given masks if they didn’t have them, and there was very little tolerance for people flouting the rules.
I think it was Korea rightfully proud about it’s phone booth testing facilities.. Seen anything remotely like that in the UK?
This wasn’t a Communist type lockdown and oppression of the people, these facilities were I assume, crossing points between safe zones. If a person wanted to move from one safe cell into the next, you had to test safe before you could.
When you saw guys in hazmat suits washing areas with disinfectant, sometimes whole streets, I would suspect that was maybe a ‘clean’ area where a rogue positive test had been found. Make safe, keep safe, test, test, test…
If soap and water and washing your hands and face slowed the contagion, then every crossing should have had facilities to do just that… Why have a control mechanism if it’s optional? It’s then not a control mechanism.
But then, you look at UK lockdown, and frankly, it’s a joke. There is no process or order to it. If I want to drive from John O’ Groats to Landsend, there is nothing to stop me. A royal, with confirmed infection can bring his entourage the length of the UK to the Highlands. 500 house parties broken up in Manchester. Police and crowds having a street party on London Bridge. Aircraft are arriving from all over the planet, people disembark with no testing, no control of their movement, no quarantine.
If you country was fast, ruthless and moved like lightning, your lockdown could stop the virus before it got going, but the UK didn’t do that. We “gave up” on containment, and virtually right away, because that was the strategy from the beginning. Put your trust in good ‘ol British Exceptionalism, and laugh at foreign Johnnys getting into a tizz.
While countries who moved quickly and shut down their outbreaks are now thinking about cautiously easing lockdown, but are ready to squash any new outbreak like they did the first… here in the UK, I’m afraid we’re going to be using our safe zones to play Life and Death Blockbusters with Coronavirus, turning hexagons of safe area blue and white trying to create clear cells and keep them clear while the virus tries to recontaminate them.
The whole UK, Scotland included, should have reacted instantly, as if there was another Novachock poisoning like the Skripals. Remember that response? But because we didn’t, I don’t think we can expect the same results and success containing the virus like those more rigorous countries who grasped the nettle.
Worse than a failure of strategy, Boris Johnson was ignoring the risks, defying the danger, and instead planning a coup for his Disaster Capitalist buddies to clean up and make a fortune.
Flattening the curve and relaxing restrictions is a bit like jumping from an aeroplane and saying ‘Right, our parachute has slowed our descent, let’s take it off’.
Maybe going total laldy paranoia here.
I Headline thingy popped on my phone, (google story) about the police getting powers to tell you what you are allowed to buy at certain times, I will be honest I never bothered clicking on the link. (suns oot, taps aff, vino in the garden.)
It did start me thinking, imagine a group of civil servants sitting in a nice wee cushy office, phoning up their wee group of “City Financier scumbag pals” and basically saying “this week we are pushing x product, get the shares sorted in said companies,” and on it goes.
I am pretty sure the honest UK establishment!! would never stoop to such dishonest depths???? Making money from the misery of the public? surely not?
Maybe one to watch?
“1. You’re perfectly well aware that the MSM’s job is to spout lies at you all day, every day, on every issue under the sun. Why is it that you’re so desperate to believe that everything they’re telling you is the truth when they start talking about China?”
I don’t, but then again I certainly don’t believe everything that comes out of China as well.
As for point two, well it wouldn’t matter to me what the Chinese fellow thought about Scotland, he’s entitled to his opinion, and I’m pretty sure over a billion Chinese people don’t actually care what I think about China either.
As for Tibet, executions and the persecution of Rohingya Muslims in China,I seem to have hit a nerve there.
What has a bet by you with Craig Murray got to do with my opinion, or my visiting on China? Very strange indeed. Pity you’ll never collect it, for I shall keep you in suspense.
“Jfngw @0323 p.m. a very good point Sir as regards Scotland’s position in relation to our much larger neighbour. The potential problem will be very much become apparent when people who usually go to Spain , Italy , France etc etc on holiday are unable to do so ( in the near to mid future due to the substantially increased bureaucracy likely to be necessary both from and to all destinations ) and “ staycations” become principally the option available . With an “ open border “ between Scotland and England, then the likelihood is of increased visitors post “ lockdown” . A small country ( i.e.Denmark) , with a much larger neighbour ( Germany) , is comparable to our situation . However, the Danish Government was able to close its border and control matters more effectively , for that very reason . Also the Danish Government would have gained “comfort “from the efficient and effective way that their neighbour Germany had managed and controlled the pandemic . It must be a worry for the Scottish gov & Health service that a second phase of virus transmission could be triggered later after restrictions are eased , especially if Holyrood’s hands are “ tied” due to Westminster calling the shots over the economic considerations. ?
Anyone see Gove lose it this morning? Tried to blame the media for cherry picking issues about lack of ppe. Glad there was social distancing because an umbrella would have been needed to deflect the spittle.
I see the Deputy CMO for England thinks their performance has been internationally exemplar, from this comment I can only presume that killing over 25,000 was indeed the intention and it is all going to plan.
@Dave Robb at 1:01 pm
Cheers for responding and the clarification of your views.
It’d be braw if yourself and any other lurkers for that matter would occasionally chip in with some input.
It’s always better to have a diversity of views being expressed to make the place more interesting.
That’s a shocking statement from the Deputy CMO of England. How on earth can the responce be considered exemplar of anything other than contempt for the “precautionary principle” and the role of public-health ethics.
Full text.
Struggles for Human Rights in Health in an Age of Neoliberalism: From Civil Disobedience to Epistemic Disobedience
https://academic.oup.com/jhrp/article/11/2/357/5545102
CMO for England is just another Tory puppet on
A String and a very nice pay packed.
I’m sure Betty will be dishing out Gongs too.
Gong with the Wind might sum them up.
‘Going for Gongs’ relaunch of old format with Henry Kelly. Where contestants from around Europe will be asked questions on the exemplar performance of the UK government but only those willing to lie will progress to the next round.
Brexitania appears to be retreating from the Moral Law at an alarming rate. Someone please rescue Scotland from English Torydum.
https://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199688623.001.0001/acprof-9780199688623-chapter-16
I was shocked to find that Tom Gordon in the Herald believes that the corona virus has dealt a death blow to the idea of independence. I did not see that coming, such a strong independent voice should put us back in our box!
Effijy and jfngw.
A remake of the old US show “The Gong Show” would be better.
It ran from the 70s -80s, used to watch it, brilliant laugh.
If memory serves me, when the contestant/act was garbage, a big hook would come from the side of the stage and haul them off, “Genius.”
TBH, Spitting Image would be comedy gold at the moment, only problem the puppets would have more credibility than the UK Government.
Hope everyone on here and further afar are “keeping it together” thoughts and hope to you all, even the “FUDS”.
jfngw@6.54
The case is even stronger, when you look at the clusterfu*k Westminster is making of the crisis.+ All the wonga Boris and co are spaffing, any guess Scotlands resources are at the head of the negociating table.
Change.org petition to stop the Westminster MPs taking a £10k bonus
For working at home still short of 250,000 signature.
Really? People think they deserve it?
https://www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-a-rejection-of-the-mp-s-10000-corona-virus-working-from-home-allowance?recruiter=160423539&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_medium=whatsapp&recruited_by_id=6d3fdff4-69db-441c-b100-13a2b782a26e&utm_content=washarecopy_21429623_en-GB%3Av13
Somewhat ironically this seems to have been the best spell of good weather, which has lasted pretty much since the start of lockdown, that I can remember for ages. I’m now watching the weather as I’m pretty convinced when the weather changes to continuous showers the end of the lockdown is in sight.
I’d suggest “The Bong Show” might be a more appropriate and explanatory title when one considers the abilities of the weapons grade brain melts that are supposed to be running the UK at the moment.
Even at 28 dollars a barrel, Scotland’s untapped oil reserves on the West Coast are worth Trillions.
The case law I quoted above must be considered in the context that I believe they pre-date the European Convention of Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights, and EU Law and its European Court of Justice, which arguably blew the idea of absolute sovereignty of UK Parliament, above the rule of law, back into the history books.
Arguably, that is why the Brexiteers have been pushing “parliamentary sovereignty” in the EU Withdrawal Bill, as they recognise the concept of absolute sovereignty has been seriously weakened since the case law I quoted above.
Not forgetting the recognition given to indyref1 as an act of sovereignty, even by Union supporters, to attempt to legitimise the NO vote.
Also, it’s noting there are a new generation of judges. Just maybe they may be more willing to consider breach of the Treaty of Union and Scotland’s popular sovereignty giving the people of Scotland the right to dissolve the Union without WM consent, in Scots Law?
Though as Craig Murray previously pointed out, independence can also be a matter of international law.
Hopefully the Great Brutish UK Gov will follow Denmark`s example,
`The Danish government also said that companies which pay out dividends, buy back own shares or are registered in tax havens won’t be eligible for any of the aid programs, which now amount to a total of 400 billion kroner, when including loans and guarantees.`
As Beaker says above @ 6.04pm
This has to be best of the day. Wee blonde lass destroys Gove
Love it. What a rat of a man he is.
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1251780013340459010
@JMD: I just thought maybe we should try and do something. Im not bothered about snp or not. Independance is main goal! Problem is… im not an event organiser. Gonna be totally honest. Howevever need some ideas on how to make something like this possible..I dont have the right kind of contacts for this. I cant do it on my own coz I dont know how. I was just putting the idea out there..Any feedback welcome! Dont wanna piss people off /give false hope or anything like that. Just thought would be good to try and do something!
These suites are just making it up as they go along now. The rule-of-law in Brexitanis, is on a shoogly peg, IMHO. I think Brexit really needs to be considered a right-wing coupe backed by the Treasury.
If you’ve got the time and the interest, it might be time to get learning the law.
https://guides.ll.georgetown.edu/c.php?g=273364&p=1824730
<
As I said, the British constitution is a piece of fossilised legal crap, and must not be used to deprive those living in Scotland their human rights.
https://journals.openedition.org/revus/1441
I noticed a couple of piles of fly-tipped waste at the side of the road when I was out earlier.
I understand the recycling centres are closed at the moment, so with the smaller bins we have these days, and folk at home all the time generating waste I suppose this was always going to be an inevitable consequence with a certain section of society that just don’t give a fuck.
Surely managing and processing waste is a key requirement and it would be possible to implement a social distancing strategy at sites.
jfngw 6:54 pm
I was shocked to find that Tom Gordon in the Herald believes that the corona virus has dealt a death blow to the idea of independence. I did not see that coming….
Hahahahahahahahah…!LOL
The sad thing is that Stu, who used to rip apart the rubbish Tom Gordon writes, now retweets him uncritically when he’s having a go at Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP.
@ Dan
My council’s excuse for discontinuing the kerb-side recycling collections is that the companies who take recyclable stuff away from the coups are no longer doing so. I’m told to just put my paper etc out with the normal rubbish, on a less frequent basis.
I’ve not done that; I generate very little rubbish (I’m sure you’re the same), and only put my big bin out two or three times a year. I want the other stuff recycled, not land-filled, so I’m storing it. I’m able to do that; a lot of people won’t be. No excuse for fly-tipping, though.
Also, if the Deputy CMO England thinks their performance is exemplary he must be using the word in the sense of “serves as a warning”. It’s an example to others of how not to deal with a pandemic.
@Capella
Yes, I made a comment, not as direct as yourself, at 10:12 earlier in the thread regarding this.
Fireproofjim, at 203pm,
I agre, but the REAL problem is that too many folk who post on here, feed the trolls. They just cannot wait to show how clever, clever thay are, endlessly’debating’ with paid unionist stooge trolls.
The problem can be solved by folk simply not engaging with them, not even once.
In all the time I have been posting here, since 2011, I think, I haven’t intentionally enagaged with any of them. They have tried many times to get me to bite, but I just ignore them.
When nobody engages, it becomes obvious to anybody reading, just what they are. Once they are ineffective, they will case to be paid, and will disappear.
@ Capella
The Deputy CMO of England is a patronising woman called Jenny Harries.
She does appear to have medical and pharmacological qualifications (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Harries, but maybe she missed the bedside manner module of her course.
Gove was on TV today, defending Boris De Pfeffle, the clown prime minister. If I were Boris, i’d be worried. Let’s not forget Gove has stabbed him in the back once before.
When Michael Gove appears on TV, smiling, to defend you, it means his hand is reaching around your back to stick the knife in.
I’d obviously prefer if waste continued to be recycled, but if the processing of specific recycled waste is problematic at the moment, then surely the next best thing would be for it all to end up in landfill for the duration of the lockdown rather than it getting dumped all over the countryside.
There can’t be that many significant problems to overcome in having the recycling centres being open with just general waste skips that get collected by lorries and taken to landfill sites.
Nobody touches the stuff once it’s been thrown in the skip by the individual who takes it to the site in their own vehicle.
I’ve spent days if not weeks of time over the years tidying up discarded waste. It is so much more difficult clearing litter and fly-tipped rubbish from ditches, bankings, and barbed wire fence and hedge lined roads than it would be to just have it collected or taken to a recycling site.
@ crazycat – they sure know how to pick them down in Westminster. The Chief Nursing Officer for England is Ruth May who is married to a chap connected to private health companies. Apos – I can’t remember where I read all this. But it illustrates to me how the Tory neo-liberal project is as dead in the water as all the victims of Covid-19.
@Scot Finlayson, 7.28
Hopefully the Great Brutish UK Gov will follow Denmark`s example,
`The Danish government also said that companies which pay out dividends, buy back own shares or are registered in tax havens won’t be eligible for any of the aid programs, which now amount to a total of 400 billion kroner, when including loans and guarantees.`
Not a chance Scot. Just as it didn’t follow the Danish example which had lockdown but allowed access to parks, forests and beaches.
@ Capella
https://twitter.com/Munchbunch87/status/1248738827881140231
(I knew all those posts I’ve been copying into a file for years would come in useful one day!)
Reading Ronnie’s post at 4.47pm about Supply Chain Coordination Limited (SCCL) and Matt Hancock.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-greater-good/comment-page-1/#comment-2526119
Does the following link to SCCL open for anyone else?
https://www.sccl.nhs.uk/
I’m getting a problem loading page message but wonder if there is some kind of block on accessing the site in lieu of current circumstances.
Capella
Ruth May’s husband is a bigwig manager inside the English NHS
In itself that doesn’t mean he has direct links with private health companies
http://www.basildonandthurrock.nhs.uk/media-centre/2037-nigel-beverley-appointed-as-chair-of-mid-and-south-essex-hospitals-group
I’m sure I heard Gavin Williamson today claim there was only a couple of care home hundred deaths in England. That would seem strange, a country with 10 times the Scotland population and twice the deaths per million has less nursing home deaths than Scotland.
If you are going to lie make it a believable lie is normally the rule, but this is a Boris Johnson government maybe they thought after Brexit ‘the English public will swallow anything’.
jfngw
I was listening to BBC R 4 early this morning and they came out with a figure approaching 4,000 as a more realistic tally of deaths in care homes.
NB this total does not include patients from care homes who die from corona virus in hospital, only those residents and staff who die in the care home.
Can’t really remember accurately but I’m sure they said that over 600 had died in the last week alone.
Seems that the UK Gov is not keeping a tally of the total number of care homes deaths because they have to deal with thousands of sources for statistics. For hospital they only have to calibrate from about 258 sources, but the woman speaking said that there should not be a problem because all care homes have to report any deaths so the figure must exist somewhere.
Loads ok Dan
Motley crew involved – where’s Hancock ?
Our Board
The Company will have ultimate responsibility for the management of the NHS Supply Chain service. Its Board Members are:
Non-Executive Chair
Jim Spittle
Directors
Jin Sahota (SCCL CEO)
Colin McCready (CFO)
Melinda Johnson (DHSC)
Emily Lawson (NHSE/I)
Miranda Carter (NHSI)
Non-Executive Directors
Heather Benjamin
Heather Tierney-Moore
Steven Glew
Rob Houghton
Company Secretary
Paul Webster
More information
More information about the NHS Supply Chain and services can be found at http://www.supplychain.nhs.uk
British culture has been under sustained re-structuring since Thatcher, culminating in austerity and a coordinated attack on the principles of liberal constitutionalism (Brexit). England’s judgement is now largely shaped by fear brought about by the insecurity and precarity of life in UKOKplc.. This is not good and has ample scope to turn extreme.
Remember, Brexit is the result of ethnically informed right-wing populism.
EMOTIONAL ROOTS OF RIGHT?WING POLITICAL POPULISM
https://researchportal.helsinki.fi/files/95551509/Salmela_von_Scheve_Emotional_Roots_of_Right_Wing_Political_Populism_Final_SSI.pdf
Austerity fed the populism that brought us Brexit, which these clowns are determined to press on with regardless. At some point in time, Scotland will hopefully wake up to the nature of the beast that will determine their futures. And their children’s. And their children’s children’s. And their…..
The political psychology of inequality and why it matters for populism.
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2019-66794-002
Robert Louis 8.48
Do you have any actual evidence of paid trolls being “in the house”?
Or is it just that someone who may disagree with you “must” be being paid?
Westminster BBC fake news for Shortbread eaters
Refuses to touch the story of the day which is Gove’s
Refusal to confirm the English sold PPE supplies to China
In February when the signs all suggested we were desperately
Going to need it here.
BBC and absolute disgrace to broadcasting, journalism and democracy.
Reposting the link
callmedave says:
18 April, 2020 at 12:43 pm
Here are some maps and graphs which are interactive using the menus.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data
Westminster Tory government on Sky paper review getting absolutely “ roasted “ by reviewer/ journalist Christina Paterson
over PPE shortages says government has “ blood on their hands”
The result of the SARS-CoV2 antibody testing in Santa Clara county, California have been published. It shows a 1 or 2 in a 1000 death rate which is like a bad flu.
the abstract – https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1.full.pdf
the interview with the researcher. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7v2F3usNVA
This is interesting discussion of what should happen next.
It left me wondering where is the SARS-CoV2 antibody testing for Scotland or the UK. Is this type of testing taking place in Scotland? If not, when will it take place? Has anybody any information on this?
@meg merrilees
I’m using a much simpler system, I check their weekly death figures and compare it to the last 5 years maximum. Unless they come up with a viable answer to why the difference is so large then I’m just attributing it to the virus.
The difference for week 14 in 2020 and the maximum in the last 5 years (10794), that is 5593 higher than the max for this period. The number allocate to the virus was 3475, that leaves 2118 unaccounted for. So there is 60% more deaths than what is allocated to the virus.
The number of virus deaths in England for W/E 12/4 should be around 6100, if the total number of deaths registered is around 9000 above the 5 year maximum then that would indicate a trend. I think these numbers will be out sometime this week, I await with interest.
Can you imagine Gove as PM?
No me neither.
The way things are going I’m going to look like one of these old rock stars with a near baldy head and a pony tail if I can’t get a haircut soon.
Agreed that we do not have government pay slips for idiot Dave
Or Private Pete!
The only thing we can work in is no one would post such
Utter garbage and embarrass themselves so often without
Being paid.
TORY \ STAY \ SAVE \ SAVE
VOTERS / HOME / THE NHS / LIVES
Oops @&*# WordPress parsing.
https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1252000270650769409
Wow. Gotta hand it to Led By Donkeys….
What Dave and Pete have in common is that they are Tories.
They don’t require to be paid for having idiotic beliefs, they happily spout garbage for free about the “economy” and “welfare”. Very much like those idiots that they have put into power and are now making a mess of everything they touch.
There’s nothing more important to a Tory than taking care of their own stash, if others suffer, who cares? That, in a nutshell, is the general philosophy of your typical Tory such as displayed by Dave and Pete.
They spread their idiotic spiel for free and are happy to do so in order that the lower classes can learn their place.
I see Danny Dyer is going to be doing some schools history lessons on the BBC (England I think Scotland has different programmes). To be honest he is as qualified in history as Neil Oliver and he was allowed to make history programmes for adults.
@Ayeright
I just thought it was Richard Leonard and Jackson Carlaw using pseudo names, how stupid do I feel!
I see Gove has got the Tory script writers to create the nice story
That Westminster sent China 230,000 bits of PPE kit as a good
Will gesture and since then China has sent 12 million here?
Let me translate, the Tories we’re happy with mass death for the elderly
And infirm thru heard immunity and thought they would be a few quid with
Kit they don’t want to use saving plebs.
China has sold this large numbers of kit to Westminster since because they controlled
The virus to protect their citizens, they ended lockdown, their started up their massive
Manufacturing plants and they too now sell kit to make money.
Absolutely nothing to do with China being so grateful for being able to purchase PPE kit
When China knew they should be keeping it for the Tsunami that was coming.
Bojo Lies, Hancock Lies, Gove Lies and the Tory Party Lies.
Another favourite Tory card has been played today.
They refuse the freedom of information right to access the result of operation Cygnus that
Tested England’s ability to support an epidemic.
They refuse because they didn’t acknowledge the NHS Could not cope and they kept cutting Beds
Drugs, staff and supplies.
Death by corruption wearing a Blue Rosette.
jfngw says:
19 April, 2020 at 11:16 pm
The way things are going I’m going to look like one of these old rock stars with a near baldy head and a pony tail if I can’t get a haircut soon.
The combover is about to make a long overdue comeback.
For a country once so proud of its democratic heritage the UK has descended to a sorry state. The nation has been ground down by the greed of the elite and the lies they propagate to keep the Plebs in the dark. Money controls the press, the broadcasters, and all levels of central and local government. The few voices of truth are silenced by an avalanche of propaganda and are frequently persecuted pour encourager les autres. Now the chickens have come home to roost in the form of Covid19.
The pretence of competent government has been stripped away by the revelations of the state of the public health service and the failure to prepare for, to react to, and to manage the pandemic which has engulfed us. We have a PM who is clearly incapable of fulfilling the job he lied and cheated to obtain and who who studiously distances himself from taking responsibility to lead the nation. His minions are leaderless and are no better than startled rabbits caught in the headlights of a crisis that is totally beyond their ability to deal with. Their only response is to heap lie on lie with the charade of their daily press briefings whilst praying for a miracle. Well, miracles belong in the bible and the last one was probably 2,000 years ago.
It is difficult to see how this ends without further massive loss of life. It is clear that the lack of adequate preparation, government inaction and incompetence, will have added tens of thousands to the ultimate death toll. I had thought that the staggering level of gross negligence and incompetence should result in charges of manslaughter against Johnson and many of his cabinet but now I am not so sure. Manslaughter is defined as killing another person without malice aforethought, or in this case the accidental killing of another as a result of criminal negligence. However, there is the question of the initial policy of acquiring herd immunity within the population by allowing the infection to spread. There is a suspicion at least that this policy still lurks behind much of the delay and inaction of this government and the failure in particular to provide proper support and equipment for care homes. Whether or not this policy still persists, it certainly did initially cause substantial delay to the actions needed to reduce the overall number of deaths which will arise. Johnson and his cabal were fully aware of this and considered it a price worth paying to protect the economy and the wealth of their paymasters. Their actions, or lack of them, must take this beyond accidental killing and therefore manslaughter. They may not have known the identity of those who would die as a result of this policy, but they knew that many thousands of additional deaths would occur. Their actions were deliberate and premeditated. That constitutes murder and Johnson, Hancock, Gove, Raab and the rest should be made to answer for it.
.
Chris Cairns,
That is a spookily accurate caricature of Alan B’Stard’s stunt double. Or should that read c’unt trouble.
Chris, for this thread and your theme of the GREATER GOOD, I will bet a fiver and raise you a tenner on this to beat your hand…
http://archive.is/PvCNY
The sooner Covid-19 kills off those poisonous festering, putrid walking dead, the closer we shall get to becoming independent.
How d’ya like them apples?
Ah, the old saw. “The Chinese are a bunch of liars, and the proof of that is that I don’t believe a word they say!
Then let’s extend the analogy. There’s not one Chinese, there are several million of them, who know nothing at all about Scotland other than what they have been told by their media. And their government is assiduously funding Unionist activist groups in Scotland, and Unionist propaganda in Scotland, while these millions stand on the sidelines cheering them on… “Way to go guys! That Scotland is far too wee and poor and stupid to be independent, and don’t we all know it!” Is it still a matter of complete indifference to you?
Only in the sense that they are three subjects on which you appear to know either 1. nothing that you haven’t been told by the Western MSM, or 2. absolutely nothing at all (There aren’t any Rohingya Muslims being persecuted in China. They come from Bangladesh and they’re being persecuted in Myanmar).
I wasn’t going to “collect” it. It was a bet with myself. If you had even been willing to pretend that you’ve ever set foot in China (although it’s obvious you never have), then I was going to pay CM £50. You’re the archetypal Western commentator on China – a great big bag of arrogance, stuffed to the brim with ignorance, and tied at the neck with prejudice.
Stonky , I loved that!
It’s a pity that Britain is so superior to every other nation and follows the USA in foreign policy . If it’s not Russia – BAD , it’s Germany – BAD and now China – BAD.
We never seem to get Saudi – BAD do we ? There are a few others I could mention that I think could do with highlighting as being BAD for humanity but someone would pop up to challenge that and rightly so!
jfngw, I think we will all end up looking a bit like Ben Gunn by the end of this so worry not – and if you are a hairdresser Christmas is coming! ( goodness knows when )
This story
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18390251.coronavirus-dr-philippa-whitford-hits-michael-goves-ppe-claim/
In The National, runs to the core of the madness that is London and Westminster. The Scottish National Health Service (a distinct legal entity), has been procuring everything by itself for a very long time, ventilators, capital equipment, nursing gear , you name it. Yet, now, during this crisis, the clowns in Westminster are desperate to make it seem like London does all the procurement, and that it is the benevolence of London whereby we get medical supplies in Scotland.
It just is not true. It never has been true.
Michael Gove is just a lying, corrupt Tory, playing political games at a time when what is really needed is leadership. What Michael gove knows about medical procurement in Scotland, could be written on a postage stamp. It is in England, due to Tory dogma, that procurement is broken and fragmented, with one trust competing against others. We do not have trusts in Scotland.
These charlatans in Westminster should be taken into parliament square and publicly flogged. An utter disgrace, still playing political games at a time of crisis.
STONKY 5-17
On The Great Ocean Road in Australia I was taking photos, when I was approached by an elderly Chinese gentleman who asked me in broken English to take a photo of him and his wife. As soon as I spoke he looked startled and exclaimed “your not from here your from . . . Scotland . . that’s right your from Scotland”. He was a lecturer in a Chinese University doing Archaeology. China knows plenty about Scotland even the accent.
Jfngw
… I think it’s a good methodology. Can you post your findings please?
Ukip’s Brian Monteith has more mental article than usual in The North Britain Newspaper
@ Robert Louis.
The politics over PPE started with the ‘ harmonisation ‘ of procurement dialogue, which is why many were led to believe that Westminster were indeed taking control of the procurement process. The NHS in Scotland was always going to out perform NHS England, because NHS England was already teetering on the edge anyway. Which is why I believe we have had this England only for certain types of PPE. Fortunately the SG have been beavering away making sure Scotland has sufficient supplies, a plane load of Chinese PPE doesn’t arrive at Prestwick after a quick phone call, it would have required interaction between governments. The furore over PPE for Care homes was and is stage managed propaganda by the usual known suspects.
Aye right 11.53
Is it your theory that all people that vote Tory are “bad”?
I am confused. The general impression here is that the SG and the SNP is made of up of a bunch of lying, cheating time servers?
Here in England we had a choice between, Corbyn and Johnson .. and Corbyn is worse than Sturgeon.
So the voters in the UK had a choice between the SNP liars, Marxism or Limpdemism.
The voters, as always, as a majority, were wise and voted for the least worse.
We see what a virus can do to the world, America’s accusing China of deliberately spreading the virus, this could lead to some kind of conflict, we have something on our shores that’s could be much more devastating than this virus, nuclear weapons and nuclear submarines, time to get them of our shores before we are wiped out, the Scottish government have to start a movement to get them moved, anywhere but not here in Scotland get them out before we’re all wiped out.
People that vote Tory are either greedy, selfish or uncaring in any combination of the three. To say they are bad depends on your point of view, I personally have never understood why any decent, caring person would even consider voting Tory.
@ Elmac.
A German philosopher ( I think first coined the phrase )’ social murder ‘, where government policy or action is responsible for the needless death of its citizens. Get that on the statute book and make it retrospective and you have them bang to rights. There is another charge which can’t be mentioned on here which probably also covers this Governments actions.
Old Pete
I think any theory that results in 47.2% of the population of a country being described as greedy, selfish and uncaring … Is only promoted by those with an agenda based entirely upon unsavoury nationalist elitism. It’s silly, wrong and is often the case here, it stereotypically portrays people of a certain geographical location with generally negative traits.
Not good Old Pete.
Golfnut says:
…Fortunately the SG have been beavering away making sure Scotland has sufficient supplies, a plane load of Chinese PPE doesn’t arrive at Prestwick after a quick phone call…
Agreed. As a firm critic of the SNP under Nicola Sturgeon, I don’t grudge them credit where it’s due.
Can we also confirm our fair weather suppliers of PPE from England have been purged from all framework agreements and removed from the lists of approved suppliers for the NHS? China will deliver in a crisis, whereas England demonstrably won’t.
Better yet, let us set the wheels in motion to make Scotland self sufficient in the manufacture of PPE. Make it a non-profit National resource. I’d rather subsidise that with my tax than the Champaign lifestyle of some obscene, disease spreading BritNat Tory chin dribbler.
Nicola Sturgeon won’t be leading us into independent nationhood any time soon by the looks of it ,so ffs woman step up to the plate and unhitch us from this herd immunity madness at least.
Hello Edinburgh Calling.
Wow. Plane full of PPE. Worth paying all th those politicians after all. Blackford last week blowing off about stopping airbnb from taking bookings over easter weekend. Interesting that the Hearald yesterday had 8000 arriving from wherever by plane to scottish aiports and not being tested. Do somthing about that Blackford you fucking windbag. Seems lockdown is just for the plebs. Neighbour returned from abroad last week and just walked through the airport. We are being lied to as per usual.
@ Breeks.
Gets my vote, not just for PPE though, gas , electricity, anything that comes under the heading of ‘ strategic assets ‘ should be owned by the taxpayer.
Most gov supply chains have what’s termed as ‘ preferred ‘ supplier status. That process can be quite convoluted, requiring a tender submission process which is normally only completed every 5 or 10 yrs. It’s probably why some potential PPE suppliers have been ignored, it would take a tough cookie at the top to make departments breach those procedures, but I believe the current Health Secretary would be more than capable of making that happen.
James @ 9.03am.
Your ignorance is showing. Border security is a RESERVED matter. It has nothing to do with Ian Blackford, the SNP or the Scottish Government.
If 8000 people arrive in Scotland on inbound flights, and get through the airport unchecked – it’s down to Westminster, it’s their responsibility.
You think our supply lines are messy.
The White House Has Erected A Blockade Stopping States and Hospitals From Getting Coronavirus PPE
http://archive.is/hgofF
https://archive.is/gxDaq
@sensibledave
If you are referring to my post about working out the virus death numbers, I took them from here.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales
If you want to work them out yourself please do, there is always the chance I made a mistake as you have to cross reference multiple spreadsheets and I’m not a statistician so my method would probably be considered crude.
There is probably a similar discrepancy in Scotland but I don’t have their numbers or NI. Scotland’s are online but in a different format I think. I was interested in England’s as the UK gov was being less open about it.
robbo says: 19 April, at 10:07 pm
“Loads ok Dan
Motley crew involved – where’s Hancock ?”
Cheers for checking the link. It consistently wouldn’t open with my Firefox browser.
I did find those other names you listed through Company House info but Hancock wasn’t mentioned.
I suspect SCCL may be a similar setup to NHS Property Services Limited which is a company wholly owned by the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care.
I remember reading that when checking out the implementation of aspects of the Naylor Report.
@DorothyDevine
I’m glad to have brightened up your day a little.
Obvioulsy RoS meant the Uyghurs not the Rohingya. But I find it a bitter irony that the people caterwauling loudest about the plight of the “3 million Uyghurs in concentration camps” (or ten million, or whatever the latest nonsense number is) are the same ones who happily lobbied for or supported or voted for wars in MENA that have left more than a million Muslims dead.
Fuck off SM it’s still our problem though and where is the mention from our ‘leaders’
Golfnut says:
20 April, 2020 at 9:10 am
Most gov supply chains have what’s termed as ‘ preferred ‘ supplier status. That process can be quite convoluted, requiring a tender submission process which is normally only completed every 5 or 10 yrs….
It’s also thoroughly rotten and prone to corruption.
Contact procurement and tendering protocols are prone to abuse and bad enough to monitor, but at least effective to a degree, but certain Local Authorities get their gerrymandering and corruption in, long before works ever goes to tender, by manipulating who is on the list and suitable to tender and who is not. They have to obey procedures when tendering, but sit in total and arbitrary command of who is allowed on their “approved” list and have access to the tendering process. It makes a mockery of “fair” competition, and the contract is already fixed, despite scrupulous discipline and probity with the Tenders. It’s a racket.
It also creates a them and us local economy. Those not on the approved list will never get on the approved list and miss out on work and prosperity needed for their business to grow flourish, and those who are on the approved list will never denounce the racketeering which keeps food on the table, and once they keep their mouths shut, they become another cog that passively sustains the corruption.
For any given Contractor to actually be good at his job is a matter of absolute and total irrelevance to Scotland’s Local Authorities and “Enterprise” Quangos, and your SNP Government doesn’t give a flying fk about it either.
This is what happens when bean counters are left in command over quality and craftsmanship, and NeoLiberalism and market forces only value money and look no further.
Here’s what dave and pete appear to support.
Social murder and conservative economics
https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/publications/cjm/article/social-murder-and-conservative-economics
‘Socrates MacSporran says:
20 April, 2020 at 9:22 am
James @ 9.03am.
Your ignorance is showing. Border security is a RESERVED matter. It has nothing to do with Ian Blackford, the SNP or the Scottish Government.
If 8000 people arrive in Scotland on inbound flights, and get through the airport unchecked – it’s down to Westminster, it’s their responsibility.‘
I appreciated and defer to what you say but…. would it not be a matter that the Scottish Government might put something in place to show they had the cojones to demonstrate their resolve to protect the Scottish people and send a signal – especially to the Westminster muppets – that we are beginning to think and act like an Independent Country? ?
@sensibledave @8:16
Not long ago you were unhappy you thought I had referred to politicians as liars but there you are quite happy to call politicians you dislike liars.
If you call people liars you really need to present some evidence of SNP lies. The whole of the UK has seen the Tories, let not call them lies as you will take umbrage, dissemble the truth.
All political parties dislike inconvenient truths and all of them make mistakes they are never willing to admit, that’s politics, it will never change. I vote on outcomes and Scotland in the last 13 years has been better run, not perfect, than the previous period under other parties.
Scotland’s rejection of the Tories for 61 years must indicate something to you, I can maybe guess the answer here.
Must give full credit to HMRC for the efficiency of their furlough wage reclamation scheme.
As promised, it went live this morning and it was very easy to use.
All the usual moaners seem to be out in full this morning venting their spleens on all things Tory.
I suppose when you are powerless, it helps to sound off about the opposition even if there is no substance to the claims.
Regarding all the claims of Tory and SNP inefficiencies regarding their respective NHS’s it always strikes me that what are all those Professor types doing who purport to run the various health quangos in each country?
It’s really unfair to blame politicians for every failed delivery of PPE and medical equipment. That surely is the job of the highly paid bureaucrats!
More on where dave and pete are coming from.
http://www.research.lancs.ac.uk/portal/services/downloadRegister/253935211/social_security_and_social_murder_rewrite_final_002_.pdf
@starlaw
Chinese have a remarkable tolerance for British people considering that China has never done any harm at all to Britain in its entire history, while with the possible exception of India it has suffered more harm at Britain’s hands than any other country in the world.
And I’ve never yet met a Chinese person who wanted to lecture me from a position of moral superiority about what Scotland’s constitutional staus should be and how it should be governed.
James says:
20 April, 2020 at 9:54 am
Fuck off SM it’s still our problem though and where is the mention from our ‘leaders
————————-
Well maybe if you had voted YES instead of No we wouldn’t have this issue?
I’m all in favour of ‘when it started’ close the airports ,test isolate etc border at Berwick etc,but it’s not been done because some folk voted for OO mentality,some voted for status quo,i can’t be bothered to be in control of my own destiny and some didn’t vote at all!
We are where we are ,deal with it. Which were you James? No
@sensibledave @8.42
It’s not 47.2% of the population though is it, it was 31.8% of the voting age population and 22.8% of the actual population. Accuracy is everything when making claims.
Some new Corona stats coming through.
Surly it can’t be correct that. Germany is reporting
On 1 (ONE) new confirmed positive test today and
No deaths?
The Tories should put up with this having a larger
European nation having a quarter of the death tally
Of the UK.
Didn’t they listen to England’s Deputy Health Officer
Yesterday? It is England that is making an exemplary
Effort in managing this virus.
It sounds like the Germans don’t agree that England
Is the superior race?
This is war!
And a bit more on Tory policy. Neo-liberal government is a form of fascism, as it seeks to bring about social change through FORCE of the market, not democratic choice. As such, Brexitania is increasingly a stranger to justice.
Introduction: Grenfell and the return of ‘social murder’
https://d2yvuud5fila0c.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/08133540/9781526141866_intro.pdf
Why do england need to beg Turkey to supply a couple of days worth of PPE to their NHS?
Surely the queen of england could call in favours from one of her 53 Colonies dotted around the world.
Or maybe it is because the mighty english empire is not as mighty as they like to make out it is.
It saddens me to say this, but it looks like the SNP leadership think their judgement superior to the jurisprudence of international law. Our current predicament might focus the attention of some, as to how this is a mahoosive problem for Scotland. Contemporary British constitutional law denies Scot’s have a legal identity, so denies those living in Scotland have a right to have legal rights.
Effigy @ 10.20am
Could it be that the Germans are accurately recording causes of death?
Hi Dan.
In case you missed it; more info on SCCL here:-
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-greater-good/comment-page-1/#comment-2525961
@james, 9.03, @Socrates MacSporran, 9.22, Ian Foulds 10.00
Testing people from arriving flights would be best practice and more structures/procedures would need to be put in place. There would need to be
– a reliable test – is there one? What is New Zealand using? What are Russia and China using?
– facilities on hand for quarantine – commandeer local hotel?
– qualified staff and PPE for those staff
The wheel would not have to be re-invented. I’ve seen what was done at Sheremytevo airport. Would it not be possible to learn from Russia or China or Singapore or New Zealand?
“Thoughtful quarantine” needs to be instituted. That is not happening at present. For example, what is the point of putting society into house arrest while there is no checking of arrivals at international airports?
Although the scottis h gov. Don’t have the power to control our borders they do have the power to close the roads around the air ports thus they could contain all incoming travellers in a holding area/ building for 2 weeks and this would/ may discourage people flying to scottis h airports but if they could not do the same in the road borders it would be a waste of time.
During the Gove interviews yesterday, did he get interrogated on the question of why did his daughter get tested for Covid19 when Frontline health workers who are fighting this virus on a daily basis, have no chance of being tested?
Did IDS get asked about why he travels between his two homes?
Or are these types of questions meant for Scots Reps only?
Is Pierce Morgan becoming human?
https://twitter.com/ruth_wishart/status/1251971953562435586
sd @ ‘I think any theory that results in 47.2% of the population of a country being described as greedy, selfish and uncaring’
I recall one of my conservative/ukip activist customers telling me the Conservatives were so successful because they operated by appealing to the base instinct in MOST humans for, and I quote’greed’.
It didn’t sound outlandish or untrue to me at the time.
It still doesnt.
Of course it is only one man’s honest, well considered opinion.
It’s not as if any party would ever include it in their mission statement.
BritState is importing ppe from ‘democratic’, NATO alliance state Turkey, is this what they have in mind?
https://hwigear.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Full-body-crop-3.jpg
http://admin.agos.com.tr/upload/haber/polis1_1229.jpg
Be prepared!
Dan says:
20 April, 2020 at 9:54 am
robbo says: 19 April, at 10:07 pm
“Loads ok Dan
Motley crew involved – where’s Hancock ?”
Cheers for checking the link. It consistently wouldn’t open with my Firefox browser.
I did find those other names you listed through Company House info but Hancock wasn’t mentioned.
Dan, I don’t know how to paste links but I will give it a go. It doesn’t say Matt Hancock by name in companies house, but if you click on the tab ‘people’ then the tab with ‘persons with significant control’ it say Secretary of state for health and social care and at the bottom says has 75% ownership of shares, 75% ownership of voting and right to appoint and remove directors.
Can you please have a look to verify that I am actually seeing it also. I am not a business minded person at all, but does this actually mean that he owns this private company, or that he own’s it on behalf of the NHS if you see what I mean?
If he actually owns it as a private company and they are one of the main procurement companies on the NHS supply list, surely this would be a massive conflict of interest?
I must have something wrong here, otherwise this would ba an absolutely massive scandal. However, I am not hearing or seeing anything said about it, even on this threat!
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10881715/persons-with-significant-control
cirsium
IMHO, removing our liberty was the only alternative once they failed to respond in January. Their error, our loss. Same as it ever was.
OECD Risk Management:
STRATEGIC CRISIS MANAGEMENT
https://www.mmc.com/content/dam/mmc-web/Files/Strategic-Crisis-Management-paper-July-2013.pdf
re. the “right-wing mind”. Fill your boots. 😉
The association of cognitive ability with right-wing ideological attitudes and prejudice: A meta-analytic review
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/55893129.pdf
Further to comment at 11.05
The activist I mentioned is a shrewd operator who called the correct outcomes for Trump, Brexit,Johnson landslide,and obviously the No indyref vote.
The bio weopon will likely have ruffled his feathers a bit though.
@Brian Doonthetoon at 10:47 am
Just a quick response as I’m busy juggling a few things at moment and out this afternoon.
Yes, lots of good info there, but I was more considering the “ownership” angle and timelines which might give the impression Mr Hancock sets up a company for the government he is a member / minster in to then give the contract to “his” company.
That could be deemed as a conflict of interests or corruption, but if his technical ownership of SCCL and NHS Property Services Limited were actually down to him being Secretary of State for Health and Social Care because of the administrative way the government went about doing things then that is different.
It looks like him setting up SCCL was done prior to him becoming Secretary of State for Health and Social Care.
Is he given extra remuneration from these companies over and above his salary for being the Health Secretary?
@AberdeenPict
We cross posted but yes, that was what I was wondering.
Omg
Best one i’ve found today
pure class!
https://twitter.com/RabDickson4/status/1252175159089410053
Hi Dan.
In Hancock’s letter to Jin Sahota, Chief Executive Officer, Supply Chain Coordination Ltd, he types,
“SCCL was established on the 25th of July 2017 as a private company limited by shares under the Companies Act 2006 with the intention that it should function as the in-house management function of the NHS Supply Chain. In my capacity as Secretary of State and sole shareholder I wholly own the company and have control over its activities.”
It would appear that it is the Secretry of State for Health, rather than Hancock, the individual person, who owns and controls the company.
Will just throw this in re NHS Property Services before I head out.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190728225712/https://www.nao.org.uk/report/investigation-into-nhs-property-services-limited/
@ Breeks.
Can’t really disagree with any of that, though I would say from experience the SG is better than most including their European counterparts. I assume you have been a victim of local authority muppetry.
@Dan & Aberdeenpict
This looks like a company set up by the government and having the Health Secretary as the owner. It was set up as the procurement arm of the NHS, it is the first step in privatising a service, at some point in the future expect it to be sold off to a private company.
This is how they privatise most things, in the shade. It’s how the BBC outsourced most of its services, you set up an internal business and define their areas, then you sell this onto private bidders.
The BBC broke up the organisation into various groups, Transmission, Resources, Broadcast, Studios, Outside Broadcast, House Services and even parts of HR. Most were sold to private companies, the ones that weren’t is because nobody wanted them.
I see Tony Blair is talking about a virus exit plan, is it something about sending inconvenient experts to take a quite walk alone and ponder their position.
Is there a ‘border’ within the unified United Kingdom?
Health is devolved. Why shouldn’t the Scottish Government protect its people by carrying out health checks at the ‘border’ or anywhere else within its jurisdiction? If deals, pressure or threats are being used to limit the powers of the Scottish Government we must be told.
It’s our health.
BRANSON
https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1252187001010425856
That’s a shame. Maybe he can just fuck aff into space then.
robbo says
We really need this kind of attitude in Scotland. The guy in the vid is fantastic
The Scottish government has a legal duty of care to protect all those living in Scotland. They will find this hard to do, as they appear blind to the natural law and a legal respect for biology.
Duties of Care and the Constitution:
A Negligence Model of Individual Rights
https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1461&context=ylpr
Now I see this UK convergence thing, the one family.
80% of UK papers are owned by 5 Tory billionaires.
80% of the Scottish fishing industry is owned by Tory 5 millionaires.
Better Together?
On the plus side the Scotsman and Herald are behind paywalls so the temptation to read them is removed. The Herald paywall is pathetic by the way, you can read any article you want, it’s just not worth the effort for the quality of the content.
If the SNP understands good government through the lens of British constitutional legal practice, then it is no wonder Scotland is getting pumped from both ends.
Good Governance: Rule of Law, Transparency, and Accountability
etico.iiep.unesco.org/sites/default/files/unpan010193.pdf
Councils from across the UK have written to the not so Priti Patel at the Home office, pointing out that one in five social care workers are immigrants and that they are providing essential services at this very difficult time, and that cutting them off financially, in Sick Pay, Universal Credit and Housing Benefit won’t help them, our us to fight this virus.
The No Recourse to Public Funds is attached to some visas, and those immigrants that fall under the category can’t access those benefits. Whether or not Priti Patel heeds the concerns of councils across the UK is another matter.
jfngw says:
20 April, 2020 at 11:47 am
@Dan & Aberdeenpict
Thanks for the explanation, makes sense now. Though it was the scoop of the century for a minute. 🙁
Here is a conspiracy theory that has been bouncing around my head for a few days and although it’s ‘far out there’ let’s see how it develops.
1. Westminster is aware of the impact of covid19 and since it’s packed with disaster speculators, they see it as an opportunity to make loads of money.
2. Boris makes his ‘Superman’ speech about that very thing and wraps it up in good old fashioned British exceptionalism, telling his eager listeners that while other, less brave countries cower before the virus. England and her colonies (UK) will don the cape and hoover up all the business that these timorous countries have ‘gifted’ to them.
3. The Tories begin to get the ‘Herd theory’ out to us plebs, through their friends in the media, that tells us how better off we will all be by a few of us dying for the greater good of the rich getting richer.
4. The added bonus is that the virus seems to be deadliest for the very people who the Tories consider ‘unaffordable’ to the elderly and infirm as well as disabled.
5. Alas! ‘the best-laid plans of mice and men’ as it all begins to fall apart, with doctors and nurses dying and worse, going around on Twitter / Facebook etc and telling the great unwashed that we shouldn’t be dying like this!
6. this is where the conspiracy kicks in; it is reported that Boris in isolation, along with a few other Ministers, but all of a sudden it is announced that Boris has been taken to intensive care.
7. He is reported as being 50/50 (life or death)
8. And if you think Lasurus made a remarkable recovery, Borisgets better overnight makes a speech for five minutes, then does what Boris usually does when there’s a stink around, he goes into hiding, Ruth Davidson style!
9. He is joined under his blanket by his pregnant girlfriend, and no one seems to be concerned that this deadly virus that left Boris needing critical care and left him with a 50/50 chance of survival, might spread to his girlfriend/baby.
Would it be cruel to think that as soon as the Tory’s advisors saw that their ‘Superman’ / ‘Herd’ strategies had backfired and they understood that there would be a huge political backlash, they decided to make Boris the victim as well as shield him from the media/public, while tempers and emotions were raw?
Boris Johnson is the cheerleader for the UK’s strategy for dealing with this pandemic and he failed badly because he saw the deaths of thousands of people a price worth paying, compared to the rich rewards of hoovering up international business and making a lot of money.
Let us see how it all unfolds!
Patrick Roden
I don’t think that’s too far from the truth, so is it really a conspiracy theory?
Catalan President Quim Torra, has outlined his plans to ease Catalonia away from lockdown such as the opening of schools, restaurants and bars, with events of less than 30 people allowed to take place, Torra added that the wearing of face masks might become compulsory at that time, a specific easing down date hasn’t been given yet.
Significantly, Torra went on to say that Catalonia is managing its specific response from the rest of Spain, (surely a lesson for Scotland). Sadly though another 410 people in Spain died in the last 24 hours, in rather macabre sense, a Spanish health official added, that it was the lowest death rate since March 22nd, and gives us hope.
Dakk
Your customer is correct.
Maybe greed is not quite the word but I can understand what he means.
Tories tend to want to get on in life and stand on their own feet which I suppose can be taken as greed but we also believe in the ethos of Beveridges welfare state which was to support folks when they’ve hit a bad patch but which was never to be a lifestyle option.
As you’ve got customers I presume you must be a business person which is good because it is business which creates jobs and prosperity
Governments do NOT create prosperity.
Tories tend to want small government, individual liberty, good education and aspiration to do well.
Brexit is part of this as the EU is a stultifying protectionist organisation which is bad for nation states to which most people relate.
@Patrick roden
The other theory I read online, i think it was a joke but it looked possible to me. Boris Johnson was such a disaster presenting the daily conference and his obvious boredom with the subject those at the top of the party wanted him removed from public view. Hence the onset of a virus, the long term progress, the hospitalisation and now the recovery, taken him out of public view as a leader and now a victim.
Can we now put to bed the conspiracy theory that Hancock was running his own company and profiteering from the NHS.
How bad can you lot get.
Just incredible!!
robbo at 11:28
wullie at 12:05
Exactly. Same in-your-face thoughtluckery being used by westminister. When the plebs get back to work they can resume payment but cannot pay debt they built up during the time they were ORDERED to stop work – because THEY WEREN’T EARNING ANYTHING. So now some will be spending the rest of their lives paying back the interest. We need to be shouting about this scamistic ideology.
Its WORSE here – we’ve not even any UBI as a catchall to cover even the base of any debt.
This is what full-flow looks like, and might help folk understand our current predicament. Full text.
The critical juncture of Brexit in media & political discourses: from national-populist imaginary to cross-national social and political crisis
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17405904.2019.1592767
Why can’t Independence for Scotland be spoken about in the present climate?
It looks like Westminster has returned to Blue Tory Red Tory politics where nothing radical will ever happen ever again, and with the current SNP leadership, we look as if we are settling in for the long long haul.
The SNP leader at Westminster is the fat controller Blackford, he reminded us last week during a BBC interview that the SNP are the Third Party and should be heard blah blah blah.
Well all we have heard from Blackford in recent years was how to save england from Brexit,,fuck all about Scottish Independence, not a peep.
And as every day passes, Blackford looks more like the Laird of Skye rather than the SNP MP for Skye.
He seems to be lapping up the Westminster lifestyle, as he sits there in his Tartan three piece Saville Row suits. Belly bulging with too many meals from the top table of the english establishment.
Covid19 also suits Sturgeon down to a tee.
She will say “now is not the time”.
Fuckin bullshit Nicola, why are you not making comparisons of how an independent Scotland could be doing this, or how an independent Scotland could be doing that?
There is no need for complete silence from the so called leader of the Independence movenent in Scotland.
The reason you don’t mention Independence is because you don’t believe in Independence. Devolution suits you and your fellow inner circle careerists. A well paid comfortable job, why change anything? Independence would bring your world crashing down
“Now us not the time” is also a deflection.
In 1916 in Ireland, right in the middle of WW1, Irish freedom fighters fought the British for their Independence. In Russia in 1917, right in the middle of WW1, the Russian Revolution took place to overthrow their imperial masters. In India during the Second World War, they fought and won their Independence from their imperial masters.
So Sturgeon, now IS the time to shout about Scottish Independence ,,,and if you don’t, then we will hopefully, sometime in the not too distant future, replace you with someone else who has the balls to do it on our behalf.
What has Sturgeon and her inner circle ever done to further the cause of Scottish Independence???
Tick Tock Sturgeon.
Really good summary of the real borders and discrimination within this disunited kingdom:
https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/04/15/stockpiled-ppe-has-been-released-only-to-care-providers-who-can-register-with-the-care-quality-commisison-in-england/
WooHoo. Predicted the first question to the FM, ‘Why did you build a hospital that you may not need and spend the money elsewhere’. This was a win-win for the journalist as if it had not been built the question would be ‘why have you not made any contingency plans’.
Jings!
A BBC questioner woman asks the FM should the temporary hospital in Glasgow not be used would it have been a waste of the money!
I never heard anybody question the 5 or 6 being built darn Sarf!
Disgraceful shortbread BBC!
Do ships carry lifeboats?
@jfngw
Snap!
Makes sense @ Patrick Roden says at 12:27 pm
Add to your list that the Red Tories are getting positive airtime (now Starmer is leader) while traditional Tory supporting media attacks UK Govt.
Looks like the UK Establishments Second 11 are getting lined up for after the Covid fallout!
I wonder if it will be in time to reverse Brexit too?
@callmedave
The intro to the programme is what triggered it, they highlighted the new hospital but added the rider about it possibly not being needed. Didn’t have time to post it here as, well, I was having my soup, some things take priority.
BBC Report:
First Minister Nicola Sturgeon confirms 8,450 people have tested positive for coronavirus in Scotland, up 263 from yesterday.
A total of 1,809 patients are in hospital with suspected or confirmed Covid-19, with 169 being treated in intensive care.
A further 12 patients have died, taking the total to 915 in Scotland – but she cautions this figure with the fact death registrations over the weekend tend to be lower.
Ronnie at 4:47
It is shocking that the English NHS is run as private companies as in the example of Supply Chain Coordination Limited. But even more shocking that Matt Hancock in his capacity of SSHSC is by implication personally in charge of the procurement mess of the PPE.
Just how many employees is the £14.6million being paid staff are there? One director is earning over £105k, another over £230k! This must also be partly Scottish taxpayers money since I don’t imagine for one minute that the funding for this company is “hypothecated” purely from the English budget, because Hancocks title is Secretary of State for Health and Social Care and this relates to the whole of this disunited shildom.
@Stonky 10.09: “Chinese have a remarkable tolerance for British people considering that China has never done any harm at all to Britain in its entire history, while with the possible exception of India it has suffered more harm at Britain’s hands than any other country in the world.”
Quite so. I remember when young and naive I began reading about the Opium Wars, imagining the British had been trying to crack down on evil Oriental drug-peddlers in its self-appointed role as World Policeman. When I discovered the opposite was the case and that the Chinese were resisting their population being turned into drug-addled zombies by the “Good Guys”, it made me realise what crap the Establishment try to feed us about the glorious British Empire.
Pete your PPB at 12.42 is very interesting .My lifestyle option is to reject Toryism and all its evils and push for Scottish independence because I do at times believe in standing on my own two feet.
Any of you out there with grand children getting restless at the lock down, just remind them.
“Grand Parents are for Life, Not Just For Christmas”
Looks like maybe 1 minutes silence is going to observed for the people who have sadly died, I am 100% behind the idea, the country could also have a weekly “coming together” where we all shout for a wage rise for the underpaid/undervalued workers in society.
“Pay them More” shouted for 1 minute per week across the whole country? just an idea.
when this all started in china, it seemed – either it’s nothing or mid to late april it will get nasty; and so the latter is upon us.
an early model, a conservative one, gives a simple equation for the number of infected = 1000 times the number of dead
this is about a million people in Scotland, about one in 6; when you go out, anywhere, you will cross people who have it, and since you don’t know who they are, you have to assume everyone is infected
given that sneezes can travel 30feet and supermarket queues are separating at 6 feet, waiting in line is now no mere inconvenience
– for the sake of your own safety, ignore ukgov advice and use gloves, masks and goggles; improvise with what you have – I use 2 ordinary dust masks doubled up and old latex disposables I found under the sink
its not a time for vanity, its a time for staying alive; you still need to social distance and wash like a madman too; belts and braces
ignore the sniggering youths working the tills – they are “disco dancers with one foot in the grave” – why should you care
I would wear a hazmat suit if I had one.
– there is a growing intense pressure to lift the lockdown and they will likely buckle to pressure; when this happens it will be super-dangerous, so I would stay in, for a while at least
remmember – the authorities can write what they like for cause of death
OLD
HAD A GOOD INNINGS
NATURAL CAUSES
GOT A BIT OF A CHILL
TOOK A BIT POORLY
I mean, have govt depts ever – massaged the figures … has that every happened at all?
% of Reported Infections on 13Apr resulting in Deaths on 19Apr – Top Worst countries in the world:
52.6* Sudan
28.0* Somalia
21.4* Bahamas
21.4* Zimbabwe
20.4* France
19.2 England
19.2* Algeria
18.4 Belgium
18.3 The United Kingdom
* Emerging cases – Average infections 563
For details on how these figures were obtained, see:
https://wingsoverscotland.com/going-walkabout/comment-page-1/#comment-2524851
Excluding the low-infection countries, France is now the worst country in the world for deaths per reported infection and has been since the 16th April. But that pales into insignificance with the UK’s unenviable record of holding the worlds top worst position for 18 consecutive days, taking over from Italy. England however totalled 23 days and at its worst had 24.2% deaths of all reported infections!
One positive outcome is from the figures provided to the WHO already (let alone future investigations), this provides undeniable evidence of a countries ability to care for its citizens, its efficiency, its society. From which its people can congratulate its leaders – or demand prosecutions and changes.
So Sturgeon has appointed an independent brain on to how to recover our economy after this pandemic. Who does she appoint, some respected economist or a well respected businessman/woman, who recognises Scotlands socialist tendencies, no, she appoints Benny Higgins the chairman of Duke of Buccleuchs estates.
Mr Higgins as I’ve learned also designed Scotlands (SNIB) Scottish National Investment Bank,whose chairman is Willie Watt, who was boss at a US investment fund registered in Bermuda. Another appointee to the (SNIB) worked for the US giant MetLife that’s incurred multiple fines from watchdog bodies for irregularties, not only that but the person will be on a whopping £235,000 pound salary paid for by the Scottish taxpayer. Sturgeon herself earns £135,605 pa.
Is this bank goung to be just another capitalist venture bank which benefits the rich?
Surely some sort of economic convention voted on by the public should very taken place before these folk were appointed.
Pete
‘Governments do NOT create prosperity.
Tories tend to want small government,’
I know what they purport to stand for.
However, the reality is centralised,vested interest, revolving door cronyism which channels billions from the real economy into bloated bankrupt banks, profligate defence projects/contractors, illegal wars, and elaborate systems of priveledged patronage.
In that however, they are no different whatsoever to their corrupt british nationalist partners in the Labour Party and Liberal Democratic Party.
Famous15
I thought pete a tad condescending to suggest only Tories want to “get on in life and stand on their own feet”. This suggests Pete feels Tories are morally superior. It also suggest pete is blind to Scotland’s lack of constitutional justice. Neither does he appear to appreciate our political opinions are bio-neurologically driven, reflecting our humanity and capacity for empathic reason, or lack off. 😉
I see Jackson Carlaw is still tweeting out his pro union, what can I call it, nonsense I think is the best word. He believes only in the UK could Scotland weather the virus storm whilst ignoring the terrible death rate and the fact that most countries the size of Scotland are doing better than the UK.
That’s the side issue, the Britnats have never taken the union off the table during this crisis, in fact they’ve try to capitalise on it. It’s time for us to put independence back on the table, never has the need for independence been more obvious as we are locked in chainstep with a bunch of incompetents at Westminster.
callmedave says:
20 April, 2020 at 12:58 pm
Jings!
A BBC questioner woman asks the FM should the temporary hospital in Glasgow not be used would it have been a waste of the money!
Are the BBC (North Britain branch) advocating the concept of just-in-time healthcare?
I wish Nicola had said something like “Since BBC (NBB) is cutting its output and services to Scotland (inadequate though they were), does that mean that Scottish viewers are wasting their money on the license fee?).
Patrick Roden says:
20 April, 2020 at 12:27 pm
……3. The Tories begin to get the ‘Herd theory’ out to us plebs, through their friends in the media, that tells us how better off we will all be by a few of us dying for the greater good of the rich getting richer.
4. The added bonus is that the virus seems to be deadliest for the very people who the Tories consider ‘unaffordable’ to the elderly and infirm as well as disabled…
It’s sickeningly credible, but I would tweak the theory… I think the plan was to exploit the caution and slow down of foreign economies abroad, reacting as a precautionary measure to the virus.
I think it all went pear shaped for Boris and his bloodsuckers, when COV19 revealed it wasn’t just the flu, but starting killing people and doctors, and suddenly the exaggerated fear of a pandemic, the opportunity which Johnson wanted to exploit, transformed into an actual pandemic for which he had nothing prepared and the cupboards were bare.
Instead of looking like panicked overreaction, all those countries who reacted quickly to the threat of COV19 and took it seriously, quickly saw the benefit of doing so. The got it right. In contrast, Boris and Co were completely wrong footed, and not only found no disaster capitalist opportunities to exploit, but worse, much, much worse, he had banked on COV19 being a mild flu, reacted flippantly, and casually allowed a lethal virus to establish itself and run rampant, spreadIng throughout the UK.
Boris was gambling that COV19 would prove to be a false alarm, and “not” taking it seriously would make him look clever and unflappable. But because COV19 is the real deal, Boris Johnson is revealed as a galaxy class imbecile now with blood on his hands, as people succumb in their thousands to the Virus which should have been stomped on the moment people were aware of it… as it has been in competent countries.
Boris is the proverbial reckless gambler who put everything on black, only to see it come up red. Boris Johnson want to look like Churchill, but instead, looks like Flash Harry the spiv in a St Trinian’s movie, who has put the whole UK population in jeopardy from COV19.
More proof that Scotland is considered just a region of England. Logo in top left corner reads Public Health England, yet presents data for the UK and gives a breakdown for Scotland, England, Wales & Northern Ireland:
http://archive.fo/lUz0e