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The greater good

Posted on April 18, 2020 by

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1911 to “The greater good”

  1. jackie says:

    My hatred of all things english is only surpassed by Andrew Marr’s hatred of all things Scottish.

    What a slimy, crawling, dirty House Jock bastard that prick is.

    And Nicola Sturgeon stands there like some naughty school girl getting a telling off from her headmaster.

    Start getting angry with these bastards Sturgeon,,, otherwise they will continue to walk all over you,,,and Scotland.

  2. Bill McLean says:

    Oh My what a relief. I’m not in the mood for exceptionalism, sarcasm, putting down and all the other differences this morning! Have as pleasant day as your strictures will allow!

  3. Scozzie says:

    Wullie ” 8.26am
    To add to your post
    … think about the inquiries into unionists’ journalism, blogging, social media – nup, nada, zilch. This is a very one sided attack, nothing to do with rights or wrongs just pure and simple ‘take downs’ from the Scottish and British establishment on pro independence figures. Two cheeks of the same arse.

  4. CameronB Brodie says:

    I see dave is still trying to troll the natives. What a shallow life he must have, lacking the capacity to empathise with others. It is obvious he has no concern for Scotland’s well-being or democracy, he is only concerned with ensure the world corresponds to his narrow imagination. Dave does not appear to support the principle of universal human rights. Dave’s a Tory.

    Full text.

    Rationality versus reality: the challenges of evidence-based decision making for health policy makers

  5. Gary45% says:

    Dog Biscuit@9.42
    “How about Satan?”
    Do you mean Santa?

  6. Bill McLean says:

    Jackie at 1028. If you are as vehemently opposed to English rule and so much in favour of Scotland’s rightful return to independence i’d like to suggest you apply a wee bit of self awareness and historical experience before you post. Whenever we fail, and we have done at salient times in our history, it’s has always been because we are at each other’s throats rather than at the perceived enemy – no wonder they post on here. Do you think it’s because they are concerned with Scotland’s democratic right to a return to independence or is it something else? I’m sure you know the answer.Bear it in mind!

  7. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood, ‘the hysteria must stop’

    I agree with your comment.

    I remember watching a survival program recalling an incident at sea – the ship sank and 2 lifeboats were deployed, tied together, both equal numbers of survivors on board.

    They were all at sea for over a week, same amount of rations on both, same sea/weather conditions. The main difference on the lifeboats was attitude. On one, they got organised, kept busy, sorted out the rations, and deliberately kept their moral up. They all survived. On the other life boat, they did not.

    One of the things about Covid/lockdown, is this, if the lockdown is successful, people will have little to no real experience of the disease and go, ‘well that was a waste of time, wasn’t it, a great big fuss about nothing’. It will be a victim of its own success.

    I also think that as this goes on, people just can’t be in a state of hysteria any more, its not sustainable, and in a way that represents a danger of complacency.

    What I think needs to happen, in a low key, sensible sort of way, is the adoption of everyday safety measures.


    the wearing of snoods/facemasks as a matter of routine for all (from what I can glean, a simple facemark/snood can reduce the spread by 30% – that’s a damned good reduction worth doing in my opinion)

    the 2 metre separation in shops and public places

    hand washing and gloves

    the latest medical info re silent hypoxia – leading to self monitoring and early identification of the disease

    the possible benefits of gargling with mild antiseptics such as salt, vinegar, lemon juices, and regular sipping of hot beverages throughout the day

    and of course testing, isolating, contact tracing.

    Zooming out a bit, and looking at the UK / Scottish set up more generally –

    England has woken up to how much it needs the NHS – across all the age,social, political (and Brexit) divides. That is huge, how are they going to deal with it, because it seriously scuppers the potential ‘hand everything over to the yanks for a quick buck’ plan.

    My guess is they will push through the deal in secret during this lockdown period and if they get pushed out of power thereafter, they will have cut their personal deals and made their fortunes out of it.

    And with regards the First Minister/Scotland coming out of lockdown first – if we do, we will be a magnet for people of a selfish disposition from England to flock here, and have no legal powers to address it.

    The trouble with not being independent is not having control of our own borders, or full financial levers. That’s a real problem.

    Best wishes to all.

  8. jackie says:

    Bill McLean 10.43am


    Not got a clue what your post was all about…

    Are you another Sturgeon apologist???

    Another Sturgeon gradualist???

    Another Sturgeon devolutionist???

    If you are then may I suggest you get off your fuckin knees and start getting angry,,,start fuckin fighting back against these patronising english bastards.

    If you are not up for the fight, then get to fuck out the road and make room for those of us who are.

    We are past the stage of trying to accommodate all these Indy minded Snowflakes.

  9. CameronB Brodie says:

    Time for some International Relations Theory?

    no, Realism cannot explain the international Covid-19 response
    As the world rushes to respond to the Covid-19 pandemic, international relations scholars have a lot to say. We are not public health experts, or pathologists. But we can speak to the way states respond to common threats and the political process needed to formulate an effective response. One common reference is the realist idea of self-interest driving state behavior and undermining collective action. Yet, while realism as an inclination can explain what’s going on, Realism as a scholarly theory cannot.

    Many scholars and general observers of international relations have reacted with frustration at state responses to Covid-19. The Trump Administration delayed testing and has provided insufficient information or help to states and communities. Britain’s Boris Johnson vacillated from doing nothing to locking down the country. China failed to be sufficiently transparent during the early stages of the pandemic.

    This led some to turn to realism as an explanation. For example, Steven Walt wrote in Foreign Policy that realism can “offer useful insights into some of the issues that the new coronavirus outbreak has raised.” And this makes sense. States are putting short-term interests ahead of long-term benefits through cooperation. Cosmopolitan values are suffering. Even when states do work together, it is to limit interaction, as seen with the US-Canada cessation of non-essential travel.

    So does this mean realism is right? Well…no….

  10. Bill McLean says:

    Jackie – you have just proved my point! You don’t understand what I was getting at. Really? If you write as you feel you are an angry person – we’ll get nowhere on the road to independence with that emotion. I’ve waited an awful lot longer than you for Scotland to regain it’s rightful independence and i’ve read all your sort of stuff before and look where we are now? We’ve got to this stage thanks to Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon and others of our politicians – they make Westminster look like what it is – a class ridden talking shop of warmongers and financial chancers. I don’t approve of everything our First Minister does by a long way but we are nearer independence now than we ever have been. Is that down to Alex and Nicola or people like you?

  11. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here one that suggest there is already light at the end of the tunnel we are in.

    REALIST COVID-19 trial initiated

    7 April, 2020
    Researchers at Queen’s University Belfast are leading a UK-wide clinical trial, offering an innovative cell therapy treatment for COVID-19 patients with acute respiratory failure….

  12. robbo says:

    jackie says:
    26 April, 2020 at 11:00 am
    Bill McLean 10.43am



    The What is you’re a clown! ,why a clown like you is allowed on here is a mystery, but hey ho.

  13. jackie says:

    Sky News running an item entitled:-

    “From Cornwall to Scotland
    From Wakes to the North”.


    Do the ignorant english bastards who write these titles not know that there are also Regions in Scotland and Wales?

    They still think Scotland is a wee village north of Carlisle, nestled in at the bottom of Ben Nevis.

    Where we all work in the fishing industry and feast on deep fried Mars Bars.

    And wear kilts and chase Haggis around the hills.

    Being nice and submissive isn’t going to change the way they treat us any time soon.

    And our passive SNP government doesn’t seem to have the balls to fight back on our behalf either.

    That angers me more than anything.

  14. jackie says:


    Another Sturgeon apologist

    His favourite song is :-

    “What do we want?

    “When do we want it?
    As soon as Boris decides to give us it”

    As I have said before,,,if you are not up for the fight, then get out of the fuckin road and make way for those of us who are up for it.

    You are just another one of Nicola’s Snowflakes.

    The sun is shining and your types will soon melt away.

  15. Famous15 says:

    Jackie makes Donald Trump , ddddddddaaaaare I say , sound intelligent.

  16. jackie says:

    Robbo to Rev

    “Mr Campbell, that man said a bad word”

  17. CameronB Brodie says:

    Are you unable to express yourself without being a cultural bigot? England is not our enemy, dysfunctional constitutionalism is.

  18. jackie says:


    Famous15 appears on scene.

    Surrounded by Nicola’s Snowflakes

  19. jackie says:

    Cameron Brodie

    “England is not our enemy”



  20. CameronB Brodie says:

    Now there’s a surprise. 🙂

  21. robertknight says:

    Daisy @ 10:56

    “The trouble with not being independent is not having control of our own borders. ”

    Errmmm…. actually we do in this case.

    Nothing to stop the Humza Yousaf directing Iain Livingstone to establish vehicle checkpoints on cross-border roads comprising crawler/filter lanes and ANPR cameras.

    Private vehicles, as opposed to commercial, are reduce in speed to 15mph through the ANPR zone and those not registered to an address in Scotland are pulled over and the driver asked what their business is in coming into Scotland.

    If the explanation is not a satisfactory one – back you go.


    If only the SG would have the balls. Sigh…

    Wouldn’t stop those heading north via public transport or in the guise of a commercial vehicle, but it would be a deterrent of sorts.

  22. Dog biscuit says:

    Jackie, I hope there are no sharp objects in your immediate vicinity. What you are indulging in is rabble rousing. If you were serious you would not be putting yourself out there. Are you trying to hook the more easily inluenced among us ,sit down Robbo,well?Gary45 yor posts are dripping with malice.A product of the labour party?

  23. CameronB Brodie says:

    No, I’m not a snob. I just know a bit about overcoming structurally produced cultural oppression. Full text.

    Prejudice Reduction and Collective Action:
    A Conflict or Confluence of Interests?

    There is a growing body of research findings suggesting that prejudice reduction strategies can have unintended negative consequences, particularly by helping to stabilize systems of inequality. In light of these findings, a handful of scholars have suggested that the field be guided less by the prejudice reduction tradition, so as to focus more on collective action.

    While agreeing with the recent critiques of prejudice reduction, I argue that in more robustly embracing a collective action approach we should be careful not to abandon the notion of perceptualism that colored original thinking on prejudice reduction, lest we artificially narrow the scope of social psychological research and unintentionally ignore communities that do not fit well within current thinking in the collective action tradition.

  24. Gary45% says:

    Take a wee look at “McGlashan Absolutely” on You Tube, it might help you calm down on the “Anti English” rant. (It will make you laugh)

    Are you the one that runs around the hills with the blue painted face screaming “Freedom” at the trees?

  25. Gary45% says:

    Dog Biscuit@11.51
    “malice and Labour Party”
    Please explain.

  26. robertknight says:

    Dog Biscuit…

    Have to agree.

    Jackie, you remind me of the sort of rabble rouser who winds up people in a bar only to stand back with a satisfied grin as the chairs start flying.

    We all know you’re blinded by rampant Anglophobia and hatred of all things Sturgeon related, but you really don’t bring much to the table.

    Why not join settler-watch, SnG or some similar shower of bampots where I’m sure you’d make lots of new friends with similar IQs, chips on shoulders, etc. etc.

  27. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s the very tool you need when trying to explain complex causation in the natural world. Though as Brexitania is detached from the natural law, I’m not sure if Brexitania should be considered part of the natural world. 😉

    Full text.

    Critical realism and complex causality: On the assumptions you buy in to when you are making causal claims.

  28. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Daisy Walker –

    Thanks for response.

    Unfortunately, the measures you specified will not be implemented. Last night, RTE News at midnight reported –

    Gardaí in the border region have also been ordered not to arrest anyone from Northern Ireland for suspected breaches of the Covid-19 regulations because they do not have the power to do so under the emergency legislation introduced by the Government.

    How are ordinary citizens meant to make any sense of all this? It’s inevitable that people will just say ‘fuck this’ and go to the park, arrange to surreptitiously meet friends. I walk the dog at a local beach and have noticed piles of cans and bottles where pals have made a fire and had a bevvy, probably under cover of darkness.

    And can we even start to imagine the ill-feeling that will be generated by day trippers heading for their second homes on Ireland’s west coast, having picnics, playing outdoor games, knowing they’re untouchable by the Guards, all the while being watched by locals who are under virtual house arrest? Aye, that’ll end well…


  29. Breeks says:

    The thing about a ‘replacement’ Nicola Sturgeon is missing the point. It is Nicola Sturgeons dead-end strategy which has created this stagnation, and replacing her without replacing the whole dismal strategy would achieve nothing.

    If people want to keep Nicola Sturgeon as figurehead of the Indy movement, then I suggest you get busy and impress upon her how fkg livid and exasperated a lot of us are that people have lost their EU citizenship and witnessed Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and Democratic majority being arbitrarily subjugated by Westminster, and all of it happening under their noses without metaphorical shots being fired by the SNP. The same SNP incidentally which didn’t even schedule any events to commemorate the 700th Anniversary of the Declaration of Arbroath. Champions for Independence??? Hardly.

    Frankly, I’m not impressed that all that efforts to seduce tepid support of No to YES converts is finally creeping us into a majority situation, because it strikes me the small handful of recruits being won over nowadays needs to be offset by the exodus of loyal YESsers who are sick fed up of the constant SNP capitulation and gutless abandonment of strong constitutional arguments which exist to defend Scotland’s interests.

    I don’t care whether Sturgeon stays or goes, because Nicola has driven her pet democratic IndyRef2 straight up a Cul de Sac as a direct consequence of her fixation with the Section 30 process drawn from the Scotland Act constitution of a devolved assembly. To that extent, I fear Nicola Sturgeon has pretty much killed off any democratic referendum in the foreseeable future. That’s probably just as well, given the emerging support for the BBC emanating from the SNP Wokists who seem perfectly content to abandon Independence altogether.

    So, if the SNP have wrecked the prospects of a democratic path to Independence, then so be it. I will henceforth put my faith in someone else, someone who is competent in Constitutional Principles and International Law, and who at least recognises the unlawful and unconstitutional ramifications of Scotland’s colonial subjugation through our forced Brexit.

    Scotland, as a matter of greatest urgency, now needs a team of determined Constitutional Lawyers presenting our unlawful subjugation by a colonial usurper before the UN, asserting that the UK Treaty of Union has been breached, the UK’s arbitrary unwritten convention on Parliamentary Sovereignty has been shredded, and consequently, the 1707 Treaty of Union no longer exists, and henceforth both Scottish and English sovereign Kingdoms require to recognised as separate and distinct entities and legal personalities.

    This process in my humble opinion is the surest way to secure Scottish Independence, and with luck, do it in a timescale where the economic damage suffered by Brexit is kept to an absolute minimum. Personally, I hope, it sees Scotland exit the UK’s Brexit Transitional Period not by leaving the EU, but by entering the EU Holding Pen status which was already being discussed within hours of the Brexit result. I have doubts that is realistically deliverable, but perhaps some probationary arrangement can achieve similar stasis for our economic interests while we negotiate a more permanent reality as the Independent Sovereign Nation which we will be.

    Once Scotland’s Constitutional interests have been respected, and the unlawful colonial subjugation of Scotland overturned, then Scotland can then move forward domestically to a progressive ratification discussion and National debate, unfettered by BBC indoctrination and propaganda, and in due course, hold a ratification plebiscite designed to consolidate Scotland’s Constitutional and lawful Independence with a full democratic endorsement… a political process where the SNP can knock itself out and pursue whatever lunatic interpretation of reason and logic it likes, but indulge it’s wilder misguided aspirations without throwing Scotland’s constitutional interests onto their own bizarre bonfire of self immolation.

  30. meg merrilees says:


    Depends how high in the sky you are looking.

    Capella was certainly at 1o’clock to Venus last night, in Auriga, and is one of the brightest stars in the night sky just now. Comet Atlas is in Camelopardaris ( the Giraffe) a bit higher up.

    Appropriate remark since Capella comments on this thread…

  31. meg merrilees says:

    Don’t you just love the Scottish Press – knives especially sharpened for this weekend it seems. Who knows what they will be like next week….

    They are beginning to sound a bit desperate don’t you think?

  32. Ottomanboi says:

    If you can’t prove it, fake it.

    “…most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution.”
    Aldous Huxley,
    Brave New World

  33. Dog biscuit says:

    So Jackie, you are a man. I thought by the spelling of yor name that you were a lady.And there I had a vision of you in twinset and pearls ,sitting behind your letter box and spying on your English neighbours.

  34. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Just been clearing out my shed and I blundered across an old vinyl LP. (circa 1970.)

    Jackie , 45%, Dog-Breath ,Bill McLean & Sensible Dave

    You really should listen to it – The guy who wrote the lyrics, included in the sleave notes, among other things :

    “Scotland has been governed(or miss-governed) by all three major English parties. It is therefore as clear as the nose on Edward Heath’s face, that we must vote for a Scottish Party, There is only one.”

    Things haven’t changed much in 50 years…

  35. Colin Alexander says:

    We are ruled over by the Imperial Parliament at Westminster and the British colonial parliament at Holyrood.

    At both, the politicians swear allegiance to the United Kingdom’s Empress Elizabeth.

    How can anybody who asserts a belief that the people of Scotland are sovereign, swear allegiance to Empress Elizabeth?

    Purring Betty, of “think very carefully” infamy, who arguably breached fundamental Scottish constitutional law, the Claim of Right 1689, by her deliberate interference in the 2014 indyref, at the request of the then UK Prime Minister, according to an admission by David Cameron.

    “Purring Betty” who was crowned using the British Imperial oath at Westminster Abbey.

    That’s who Scotland’s politicians swear their allegiance to, not to the people of Scotland.

    Is it any surprise Scotland remains a colony, with our politicians swearing allegiance to the British Empress and the most “principled” play infantile games like crossing their fingers.

    So they can take the “Sovereign’s” silver as administrators of the Empire.

    Any Scottish politician that swears allegiance to the Empress betrays the sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

  36. Why don’t you leave Jackie alone he has as much right to his opinions as the rest of you and the right to say it it’s called FREEDOM as I said before I do not agree with all he says but I do agree with his right to say it you on here complain about Scotland’s voice being stifled but you want to stifle Jackie double standards I think

  37. CameronB Brodie says:

    Neo-liberal practice in government tends to undermine the ethical content of governmental practice. England’s health care system has been exposed to greater levels of fragmentation through privatisation than Scotland’s. This will be contributing to the approach to the recording of death.

    We should count our blessing but do more to protect Scottish cultural practice and our health, IMHO.

    Specialty guides for patient management during the coronavirus pandemic
    Clinical guide for the management of critical care for adults with COVID-19 during the coronavirus pandemic
    8 April 2020 Version 2

    This clinical guidance provides contemporary information on the care of critically ill adult patients with COVID-19 to practising clinicians at the bedside.
    The COVID-19 pandemic is placing an extraordinary burden on critical care, which is being met through the creation of surge capacity within and beyond hospital walls.

    A large number of non-specialist healthcare providers will be supporting critical care specialists to provide care. Staff safety and wellbeing will be crucial in maintaining the resilience of critical care provision.

    This guide summarises the clinical characteristics of COVID-19 and offers advice on:
    •Antibiotics and corticosteroids
    •Treatment of other conditions in the context of COVID-19.
    •Clinical decision-making when resources may be constrained
    •Management of respiratory failure
    •Management of other organ failure.
    •Continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) and non-invasive ventilation (NIV)
    •Early intubation – indications and role

  38. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Jeezzo I have just reached the final track on that LP … I’ll dedicate it to Alex, Stu and Craig Murray.

    It is about how things were 50 years before – and now 100 years from then, the establishment are still using the same tactics against those who speak out against them.

  39. Dog biscuit says:

    Lets not forget comrades we are all on the same side arent we? We have descended into bickering among ourselves much like the malicious infighting the labour party are famous for. I liked what Breeks had to say but there seems no way forward as we are over taken by events. It is also impossible to hold political meetings at present so difficult to apply pressure on politicians.

  40. Willie says:

    High time the Scottish Government and the various Councils sought to renegotiate, amend or resile from expensive PFI contracts.

    Why should the taxpayer have to pay exorbitant PFI finance when there is a national emergency and when bank base rates are effectively zero – or in fact less than zero when inflation is considered.

    Locally our Councils are paying millions and millions in PFI for schools lying empty. Under the terms of the contract, who bears the risk for the virus emergency. Are there legal grounds to terminate. Are there grounds to reduce or stop payment.

    Surely someone in the Council should be confirming what their contractual and legal position is and what they are doing. Or are we just continuing to pay finance and service charges irrespective.

    Similarly, the Scottish Government, should in relation in relation to hospitals, roads, bridges and all of the other infrastructure procured through PFI be looking at options or are they like the councils doing nothing.

    People have the right to expect our Scottish Government to be looking st things like this. Theses PFI contracts are in their control. So why the silence, why the inaction.

  41. mike cassidy says:

    Here’s a media thing

    At the moment when media trust is at an alltime low

    And they are desperate for our love.

    Current ITV News National Editor .. Former BBC Newsnight Political Editor .. Former Guardian Journalist ..Former Times Journalist .. Former BBC Producer

    Allegra Stratton is apparently away to be the Chancellor’s Head Of Strategic Communications

    George Carlin got it spot on.

  42. Willie says:

    Or maybe, just more than maybe, are we continuing to weigh in the financial funders for their PFI investments because our Scottish Government is in absolute lockstep with the neo-liberal cabal who rape the public purse through PFI.

    Wouldn’t surprise me one jot if that was the case under Westminster’s Governor General Nicola Sturgeon. She’s sold everything else down the river.

  43. Gary45% says:

    Col.BlimpIV@ 1.09
    Thanks for the advice, no idea why I seemed to be getting lumped with Yoons and Trolls.
    Now 58, first ever vote, the Labour party, (working class background.)
    Got my eyes opened after that one, and have voted SNP in every election since then, party member, so thanks again for the advice, but it is wasted on me, I am already there.
    “The Dream Shall Never Die.” as the big man said.
    To squander the chance through infighting and impatience would be a travesty, united we stand, divided we fall.

  44. bipod says:

    The original rationale for this lockdown was to stop the NHS from being overwhelmed, it hasn’t been and now the hospitals are sitting empty. But the narrative from the gov has now changed, we need the lockdown to continue to prevent a second peak (when there is no evidence that the lockdown did anything to prevent or lessen the first) or we need it until there is a vaccine etc…

    The gov should just admit that they made a mistake and wildy overestimated the danger of this virus, and made a panic decision because of increasing pressure from the hysterical media and lift the lockdown now, but I won’t count on that happening. Instead they will slowly “phase” out of the lockdown to save face.

  45. CameronB Brodie says:

    Full text.

    COVID-19: Knowns, Unknowns, and Questions


    The recent emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) from the Hubei province in China in late 2019 demonstrates the epidemic potential of coronaviruses. The rapid spread of this virus across the world in only 2 months highlights the transmissibility of this family of viruses and the significant morbidity and mortality that they can cause. We highlight the current state of knowledge of coronavirus biology while answering questions concerning the current outbreak of SARS-CoV-2.

  46. cirsium says:

    @Willie, 1.37
    These PFI contracts are in their control. So why the silence, why the inaction.

    With civil servants like Leslie Evans still operating behind the scenes, what do you expect? Have you not seen Campbell Martin’s documentaries on the PFI contracts?

  47. cirsium says:

    @bipod, 1.58
    But the narrative from the gov has now changed, we need the lockdown to continue to prevent a second peak

    By continuing the lockdown, everybody’s immune system is weakened so a second peak is guaranteed. Based on the data now collected on the disease, the doctors in the following clip are recommending that the lifting of the mass quarantine should begin now starting with the schools.

  48. Capella says:

    @ meg merrilees – I like Capella because it is one of the “eternals” i.e. always above the horizon in northern latitudes. For that reason, it was the guide star of the Celts who navigated by it.

    Re the Scottish MSM journalists – they are reduced to talking among themselves on GMS these days. “Whither journalism” was the topic today in the long interview with Ron Greenslade. Worth listening to for their distress because we have all moved on to citizen journalism and the internet. No mention of the persecution of online journalists though.

    The answer is subsidies. We, the taxpayer, have to give them money to carry on insulting us. The BBC is leading the field handing over millions to the gutter press. Our millions.

  49. Iain More says:

    Jackie cheered me up. The advocates of Herd Immunity do not. Do I really need to provide a list to the morons who advocate Herd Immunity, a list of those with underlying health conditions who will die from Covid 19. Stick yer murderous Tory Brit Nat Social Darwinism up yer arses.

  50. Doug says:

    Boycott all English/British nationalist media.

  51. CameronB Brodie says:

    Not all scientific minds view the world from the same perspective. Not all perspectives are compatible with a systematic approach to strategic policy aimed at a global response. I’d suggest Dr. Erickson’s perspective has scientific value but lacks a holistic concern for the global poor.

    How will country-based mitigation measures influence the course of the COVID-19 epidemic?
    Published:March 09, 2020

    Governments will not be able to minimise both deaths from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) and the economic impact of viral spread. Keeping mortality as low as possible will be the highest priority for individuals; hence governments must put in place measures to ameliorate the inevitable economic downturn. In our view, COVID-19 has developed into a pandemic, with small chains of transmission in many countries and large chains resulting in extensive spread in a few countries, such as Italy, Iran, South Korea, and Japan.1

    Most countries are likely to have spread of COVID-19, at least in the early stages, before any mitigation measures have an impact.

    What has happened in China shows that quarantine, social distancing, and isolation of infected populations can contain the epidemic.1

    This impact of the COVID-19 response in China is encouraging for the many countries where COVID-19 is beginning to spread. However, it is unclear whether other countries can implement the stringent measures China eventually adopted. Singapore and Hong Kong, both of which had severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) epidemics in 2002–03, provide hope and many lessons to other countries. In both places, COVID-19 has been managed well to date, despite early cases, by early government action and through social distancing measures taken by individuals….

  52. Golfnut says:

    @ Willie.

    PFI contracts are in the Scottish Gov control.

    Nope, it may be their responsibility to ensure appropriate funds are allocated to cover the payments, but that’s it. The SG did try to have these PFI contracts paid off but this was refused. I believe the payments are made to the treasury rather to individual contractors, not absolutely sure how this works, but remember much of this money ends up off shore. If control lies anywhere its with Westminster.

  53. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Cirsium (2.34) –

    Thanks for that link.

    Am about halfway through. It looks pretty clear cut.

    Those in here who have been shouting at ‘lockdown’ critics might want to have a look at it and address the points raised. If these doctors are right then Covid is less lethal than regular winter flus and continued lockdown is weakening us with every passing day.

  54. callmedave says:

    Pretty downbeat so far on the WM update on big Auntie.
    Not so much optimistic remarks penny dropped.

    Figures today where available are.
    I see big Auntie not telling us the Total England deaths so far today neither are the Sun. 🙁

    Scotland ………today……18………Total…..1249…BBC
    England…………..336………Total…..(no fig)
    N.Ireland………today….no figures yet

    Boris’ health a matter of interest in the first few Q’s. 🙂

  55. Col.Blimp IV says:


    I only included your name in that list because you were all sniping at each other, nothing judgmental about it.

    It was intended as a “Time Out” call, similar to the one I hadn’t noticed had been already made.

    Also I was plugging that long forgotten LP, which I bet is no longer on sale at SNP HQ merchandise stands.

  56. CameronB Brodie says:

    I just heard a Tory minister at the health briefing, suggest international travel was an insignificant factor in the spread of a global pandemic.

    We are facing a global health crises and a myopic first-world view will only prolong our lack of liberty. Anyone know who Dr. Erickson is and what his politics might be?

    March 25, 2020
    expert reaction to unpublished paper modelling what percentage of the UK population may have been exposed to COVID-19

  57. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s another medical opinion, from Dr Gregory Lewis, acting head of the Biosecurity Research Group at Oxford University’s Future of Humanity Institute.

    Dr Greg Lewis on COVID-19 and reducing global catastrophic biological risks

  58. Fireproofjim says:

    Capella, as an ex-Merchant Navy navigating Officer, I can confirm it was not just the ancient Celts who looked to Capella as a useful guide to navigation.
    It is one of the brightest stars and was easy to find in the dawn twilight when the horizon was also just visible. (Both needed for star sights).
    With Capella, Sirius and a few other stars we found our way across the oceans of the world just as sailors had done for thousands of years. It was only in the late seventies and early eighties that satellite navigation started to come in and, since then, sextants have been gathering dust and modern sailors have forgotten the stars. Shame really.
    Anyway Capella, you too are a good, bright, guiding light in this web site. By God it needs some these days.

  59. callmedave says:

    Update as N. Ireland figures are posted.

    I see big Auntie still not telling us the Total England deaths so far today neither are the Sun. ?

    Scotland ………today……18………Total…..1249…BBC
    England…………..336………Total…..(no fig)

    Seems nobody officially died in England today as I post this.

  60. jackie says:

    During indyRef1 the Yes Movement jumped through all the PC hoops, being told not to shout too loud or not to get too angry at the reporting from MSM.

    In certain Rallies I was going to have a go BBC cameramen and also Sky News reporters,,, so I went along with that and screwed the nut.

    Where did it get us? The bastards still filled our screens with lies and fake news.

    So after the defeat in 2014 the gloves came well and truly off.

    There is now no holds barred.

    I fuckin hate the BritBat Unionist bastards with a passion.

    The trouble with the majority of Wings punters is you are still using the same rules we used in the 2014 campaign.

    And that ladies and gentlemen is the main reason we are going no fuckin where.

    This is why you are happy for a Devolutionists like Sturgeon to lead you.

    I am out in a limb here with my aggressive anti english stance. But hopefully few more of you see the light and start gettin angry with Sturgeon and our english colonial masters.

  61. jackie says:

    Here’s a wee task for Sturgeon.

    Get her to Campaign publicly, in front of the World’s media, for Johnston to scrap HS2 and the Trident Submarine renewal projects.

    That would save about £400 Billion pounds with the stroke of a pen.

    In these troubled times we are going to need every penny we can get our hands on,,,and it would let’s us see that Sturgeon was doing something useful, for a change

    Go Nicola,,,a fuckin dare you!!!

  62. Written 100 years ago by R.B. Cunninghame Graham yet so true today,

    “The enemies of Scotland are not the English,–

    Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”

  63. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Why no response to the video Cirsium posted at 2.34 today?

    Have we become so unaccustomed to ‘good news’ that we instantly dismiss it?


  64. CameronB Brodie says:

    This is largely a woke-nat free zone, so it looks like you could start a fight in an empty room. Hatred is a negative emotion that only leads to personal pain. I’d suggest Scotland already has enough pain inflicted on it by British constitutionalism.

    Full text.

    Fear, Helplessness, and Political Bodies as Circuits of Affect
    Freud on Social Emancipation

  65. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    Did you not see my posts?

  66. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB –

    Yes, I did, but I didn’t see any response to that specific video.

  67. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Anyone know who Dr. Erickson is and what his politics might be?”

  68. CameronB Brodie says:

    “I’d suggest Dr. Erickson’s perspective has scientific value but lacks a holistic concern for the global poor.”

  69. Bill McLean says:

    Col Blimp IV at 0109 – afraid i’m going to have to do a Jackie here and admit i have no idea what your post means/is meant to mean! Am I a unionist in your book? Am I wrong to have an opinion that Alex and Nicola have brought us nearer to independence than anyone and am I allowed an opinion? There’s too much division caused by a few who believe only they are right. I don’t believe i’m right but I do have an opinion. OK?

  70. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB –

    Ah, right, I see.

    I have no idea what Dr Erickson’s politics are.

    “I’d suggest Dr. Erickson’s perspective has scientific value but lacks a holistic concern for the global poor.”


    You managed to surmise that from a 50min video where he concentrated on providing statistics? Or do you know something about the doctor that the rest of us don’t?

    Allow me to ask a very simple question Cameron – do you accept what these doctors said about the virulence/lethality of Covid in comparison to seasonal flu?

  71. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    I’m not a doctor and I’m not going to argue against his medical opinion, re. secondary effects and stuff. From the perspective of public-health ethics, I’d suggest he has a somewhat cavalier attitude towards global health. I produced numerous medical opinions that suggest Dr. Erikson is not necessarily justified in his confidence. Did you check them out?

  72. crazycat says:

    @ Ian B at 6.03

    I’ve just deleted a draft of a lengthy post about that video (before I saw your question). I watched the start of it, had huge reservations, and turned it off. My deleted post was about those reservations, but did say that I ought to watch the rest of it just in case he dealt with them.

    I decided not to post, because I didn’t want to get into a debate when I hadn’t watched it all (and there may be a “pt.2”, as well), but briefly – my suspicions were aroused when he blithely extrapolated from a relatively tiny number of tests to the entire population of California, without discussing whether those tested were representative of that population, or chosen for testing for a reason that might affect the outcome, either way.

    Shortly before I turned him off, someone asked about his extrapolations, and his answer was glib. I was also not happy that, after having said when it suited him that there were things we “just don’t know”, he asserted that those who have recovered have no long-term effects. Of course they haven’t! We’re only a few months into this. Given that it isn’t even clear that infection confers immunity, he cannot possibly know that there won’t be delayed reactions (shingles is an example of such a phenomenon).

    So, I really will have to watch it all – and I feel I have more important things to do – before I can be sure that a) the makers of the video don’t have an agenda, and b) people recommending it don’t have the same or another agenda.

    (It’s true, by the way, that people aren’t presenting with other ailments, and that that is worrying; in the US there is the additional problem that health insurance is often provided by employers, so if someone loses their job, they might be pretty reluctant to consult the medical profession, about Covid or anything else. The financial aspect of medical provision over there is one reason why I’m very suspicious about “agendas”.)

    Needless to say, this has turned out longer than the draft I deleted!

  73. Ottomanboi says:

    As one might have predicted the most lethal pathogen in this self-inflicted crisis is ignorance. Media awash with nonsense about ‘Coronavirus killers’, eucalyptus derivative sprays, disinfectants, bleaches, snake oil…
    Government ineptitude + questionable advice from ‘clinicians’ has unleashed among many a wave of irrational fear.
    Truly, the political class and the so-called ‘experts’ are infective.
    Such a great pity that they are likely to recover and attempt to continue as before.
    If we let them, that is.

  74. terence callachan says:

    Scott Finlayson…..not true Scott

    The English are Scotland’s enemy , know your history , read it , england have attacked Scotland and tried to conquer it since writing began.

    It’s true to say Scotland ALSO has enemies within

    It’s not one or other ass you suggest

    It’s both

  75. Tinto Chiel says:

    @cirsium 2.34: thanks for that long clip from doctors at the front line in California.

    I found the statistics re Covid mortality very surprising when compared with the MSM treatment here, but then our daily dose of Hancock’s Half Hour doesn’t look at the numbers in a meaningful way, nor do our politicians and SMO’s have to put up with aggressive questioning from “journalists” like the ones in the video.

    The doctors took a very balanced approach, it seemed to me, to a virus whose mortality seemed in line with or less than seasonal ‘flu, against the dreadful effects of a total lockdown, both to our immune systems and the wider societal problems it exacerbates.

    Something ain’t right, but then maybe some folk on here, after all we’ve been through since 2014, are still happy to believe uncritically what we are being fed by oor maisters. This ain’t to say seasonal ‘flu is not a killer, it’s just that, in the great scheme of things, those deaths have to be balanced with the effects on society as a whole of an unprecedented shutdown. Some years’ seasonal ‘flu deaths in isolation look really frightening and yet we’ve lived through them without it being mentioned in the media on a twenty-four hour, seven day a week basis.

    I’ve had pneumonia twice and been hospitalised because of it but young people need to live their lives and the economy has to function. I’ll stay careful and hope to see my granchild some day but for now the drugs ain’t working and things have got to change for our country as a whole.

  76. Ayeright says:

    Dr. Dan Erickson is the owner of 7 medical facilities in the US which due to the virus are being underused. He has a financial interest in things getting “back to normal”.

    The same people that made the video were plugging his Coronavirus testing capabilities a fortnight ago.

    Free publicity, I guess they like him.

    “Testing is done here at Accelerated Urgent Care and sent off to the lab.

    Dr. Erickson is the owner and says most insurance providers cover the cost while results take one to three days to come back, and anyone can make an appointment or walk in to get tested.”

  77. Willie says:

    Here Jackie, don’t expect Sturgeon to do anything radical.

    She is well and truly Westminster’s gal for Scotland. Trident, she for it, HS2 she’s for it. Keep her nose clean, stick with the London line, and they’ll be a big job in the UN / World Bank / or other such international organisation.

    George Robertson, Lord George Robertson, Scottish Secretary of the “ devolution will kill independence stone dead ‘ ended up Secretary General of NATO.

    See the similarity as Nic ditches Indy, keeping Scotland in the EU, and maintaining lockstep with Bojo.

    Time for a new SNP or a new Independence Party.

  78. Ayeright says:

    The number of positive tests have no correlation with a population whatsoever if the only people you are testing all have symptoms of Covid-19.

    Of course the number of positive tests will be high when you’re only testing people that are likely to have the virus and ignoring everyone else. This is the case in the UK.

    You cannot then extrapolate that to the entire population as being indicative of the numbers of the population who are infected because you tested only those likely to have the virus!

    The term ludicrous springs to mind.

  79. CameronB Brodie says:

    It looks like I wasn’t wasting my time going to school after all. Full text.

    Dilemmas of securitization and health risk management in the People’s Republic of China: the cases of SARS and avian influenza

    Since the SARS epidemic in 2003, the international community has urged Chinese leaders to do more to address infectious diseases. This paper looks at two cases in which the Chinese government securitized infectious disease (SARS and avian influenza) and examines the pros and cons of securitization.

    It is argued that the reactive mobilization involved in a securitizing move runs counter to the preventive risk management strategy needed to address infectious diseases. Although the Copenhagen School favours desecuritization as a return to normal practices, in the Chinese cases desecuritizing moves proved detrimental, involving cover-ups and restrictions on activists pressing for greater information.

    The article begins by examining the contributions of the Copenhagen School and sociological theories of risk to conceptualizing the security challenges that pandemics pose. Although analysis of the cases of SARS and avian influenza gives credence to criticisms of this approach, securitization theory proves useful in outlining the different stages in China’s reaction to epidemics involving reactive mobilization and subsequent efforts to return to politics as usual.

    The second section examines securitizing and desecuritizing moves in Chinese responses to SARS and avian influenza. Each case study concludes with an assessment of the consequences for health risk management in China. The reactive mobilization implicit in Chinese securitization moves in the two cases is contrasted with the preventive logic of risk management.

    A third section draws out the implications of these cases for theories of securitization and risk. It is argued here that when securitization has occurred, risk management has failed. Although Copenhagen School theorists see the return to politics as usual—what they call ‘desecuritization’—as optimal, this turns out to be far from the case in China during SARS and avian influenza, where the process involved retribution against whistleblowers and new restrictions on health information.

    In conclusion, the article argues that alternatives to securitization, such as viewing health as a global public good, would require a prior commitment to risk management within affected states.

    SARS, severe acute respiratory syndrome, avian influenza, risk, securitization

  80. Ayeright says:

    Imagine doing a poll with only members of the Orange Order and asking them if Scotland should be an Independent country.

    Take their answers and then extrapolate that as being representative of the population of Scotland. Well, that’s what that doctor has done in his video.

    Have you heard of any doctors being “furloughed” in Scotland or the UK like he talked of? No me neither, things are likely different in the 7 private clinics/hospitals Dr. Dan owns. I’ve no doubt his like would pay off his staff in a heartbeat.

  81. callmedave says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Watched that video you posted. Very interesting and noted the ‘good’ news that you spoke off.

    I’m out twice a day in the morning no mask , avoid other folk 2M rules etc. Get my antiseptic gel on my hands and trolley for shopping when required and also shop for for 2 older folk one a near neighbour and also for my ‘Daily Mail’ Tory nemesis from the cafe I have mentioned on here many times 1.5 miles away.

    She’s too frail to shop but I see her through her widow and get her message list through the letter box the wrong way round.
    I am the only person she has seen for about a month.
    We sometimes blether for a few minutes as she stands at her open door and I’m well back on the pavement.
    I can see she’s frightened and stir crazy only the daily rag to brighten her day plus big Auntie BBC no computer what a plight!

    Me I’m content to dabble on the internet drop by on Wings for a while, on-line chess and like to see restoring old yankee cars and woodworking on lathes, you tube etc.
    Buy The National paper + electronic edition too, what the hell cant spend money like I did before saving up big time. 🙂

    Cooking always have done that and her indoors not allowed in the kitchen near the oven or pots and pans.

    Anyhoo! The Americans and some European countries are beginning to break out of the lockdown and in about 2 or 3 weeks we shall see how the numbers stack up.

    Thanks for posting the link enjoyed it all and hope these young doctors are right. 🙂

    I am mulling over some of the things they said which chime in with what we see over here factories and large shops open folk milling around, rozzers moving us along in parks etc.

    Colony + House arrest can’t be right init!

    However I’m not going full monty yet I’ll wait and see what transpires in a couple of weeks. 🙂 🙂

  82. Col.Blimp IV says:

    jackie says:

    “I am out in a limb here with my aggressive anti English stance.”

    EdwardI, Edward II, Henry VIII, Cromwell and the Duke of Cumberland are aw deid, so is Allan Ball, Emelyn Hughes and Jimmy Hill.

    Ever since 1928 every Scots man and woman over the age of 21 has had the right to vote – So there is no living Sassenach that can be held responsible for demeaning our country, denying us our liberty or stealing our stuff.

    It isn’t Thatcher, or Blair or Boris Johnson that is to blame, it is not even the rabidly anti-Scottish “Scottish” MSM or the rump of the Yoon Politicians.

    It is every single one of us who since Indyref1, have allowed the SNP leadership to tread water on the sole issue that justifies the party’s existence.

    We should be mobilising the membership into forcing the party leadership to “do what it says on the tin”, stand aside or, leave to form the Non-Binary Party of North Britain.

    Sniping at the English or going to war against an organisation just because it has a few bad apples and a batch of high placed time-servers who will go with the flow, which ever direction it takes … Is more likely to hamper our cause than advance it.

  83. Willie says:

    Listen up folks. Sturgeon went with the quack science, spread the virus, protect the economy, secure herd immunity, and too bad if a few pensioners die.

    Save for the pensioners dying, the herd immunity never materialised and the economy is well fucked.

    Well done Nicola, very well done. Wait till the post COVID 19, post Brexit has to be paid for. The post 2008 banking collapse will be a fucking doodle by comparison to what’s coming.

    Better Together. Yeh, you got it Nic!

  84. Ayeright says:

    The state of the comments on here. It’s embarrassing even just being part of it. I’m out, the stench is overpowering.

  85. Tinto Chiel says:

    “The stench is overpowering.”

    Maybe it’s your overheated oxters, Ayeright.

    Stay safe, now.

  86. CameronB Brodie says:

    Hang in there bud, surely folk have a right to share their dissatisfaction. British constitutional practice lacks coherence with international law, so Scotland lacks unfettered access to the rule-of-law. AS and NS were vital to the cause but a new approach is needed, IMHO. One that is not undermined by legal parochialism.

  87. defo says:

    He could always try ‘Sure for Men’ Tinto.

  88. dakk says:

    Dan Ericksen’s extrapolated test figures didn’t convince.

    He also didn’t address the ‘viral load’ issue.

    The lockdown was mainly necessary to protect people on front line from viral overload because as was no/insufficient ppe.

    Also, he didn’t acknowledge there is some evidence there are over 20 different strains,death rates seem to vary.

    That said, some aspects of the lockdown here were unnecessary such as travelling to quiet areas where you could social distance.

  89. Meindevon says:

    Jackie My spouse is Devonian and I consider my kids to be half Scottish (not half English). One came home from his USA uni wearing his St Mirren shirt, He’s was there last year, on the pitch when they got promoted back into the SPL. Do you hate my family? By what you say I guess you must. How can you go on marches knowing there are English folks among the independence supporters? Do you confront them as the enemy when face to face? Or are you just a cowardly, bigoted keyboard warrior?

    My one and only conversation with you. You are not what self governance for Scotland is about. The hatred of our closest neighbour with whom we will have to trade is a recipe for disaster. By the way have you ever read the Revs rules? You need to. How dare you use someone else’s blog for your disgusting anglophobia. Get your own blog and find like minded idiots to bounce off.

  90. dakk says:

    We’ll be phasing out of lockdown in a couple weeks anyway, so it’s a moot point now.

    Then we’ll see what happens with regards to further mutations and reinfections/reactivation.

  91. Dog biscuit says:

    Ayeright you irritating SNP shill Shilling for this lockdown.We already know Dr Ericson owns seven clinics America has private healthcare remember?You were awfy quick with a rejoinder on lockdown but you have never answered any of my questions .Remember the Doctor was questioned by journalists was he not?Just what is your game ?You smell fishy to me.

  92. mike cassidy says:

    Genuine question

    If this pandemic is no worse – in casualty terms – than the annual flu outbreak

    Does anyone know how many frontline staff die each year during such outbreaks?

  93. Dog biscuit says:

    Jackie, youre welcome to wind your neck back in again .Right now would be good.

  94. CameronB Brodie says:

    mike cassidy
    The scientist are still trying to get on top of this, though the lack of universal testing (or as near to), is undermining the effectiveness of the lock-down. This phase of the response should have seen more proactive measures aimed at containment and tracing. I fear a premature let-up will result in significant avoidable deaths.

    Live, work, travel in the EU
    Public Health
    Communicable diseases

  95. Tinto Chiel says:

    @mike cassidy 8.57: that’s actually a very good question.

    I don’t know where to find the answer though.

  96. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Willie @7:36

    Far be it for me to leap to the defence of Ms Wokie McWokeface

    But are you that Bill Leckie cretin, who writes for The Sun?

  97. James says:

    You are living in a police state.

  98. @terence callachan,

    I know my history,

    Scotland was never fully subjugated,took some big hits from the Romans,Angles,Saxons,Scandinavians,Norman/French who mixed together and became the multi ethnic nation of the English,

    but never fully subjugated, until,

    we were sold out by our own folk,

    our enemy is not the English it is the folk born in Scotland without imagination,

    full quote from Cunninghame Graham,

    “The enemies of Scottish nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls. Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination.”

    they want you to direct your attack on the wrong enemy it is one of the tricks of the Brutish establishment.

  99. AberdeenPict says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    26 April, 2020 at 6:03 pm

    Ian, I have just watched the video and they both make very good points and certainly put things into perspective to me regards death rates from Covid vs. the common flu. I would agree with most of what they said.

    The only slight thing that has still left me wondering is what would have happened if we didn’t have the lockdown at all in the UK and went full herd immunity? This may work in a country that has a decent health system. However, as we know, even before Covid reared it’s ugly head, both the English and Scottish NHS were totally struggling, they were brought to their knees with underfunding, lack of staff, especially as Brexit would have scared foreign nurses etc.from coming, along low moral and totally underpaid.

    What I am getting at, would the NHS have coped in the initial first month or so with the outbreak? especially as the hospitals always struggle each year from the ordinary flu.

    However, the video shows that we cannot hide for ever, especially as a vaccine will not be available on mass for some time yet. The whole idea was not to overwhelm the NHS, which I don’t think we will do if we start to ease restrictions very soon. If the NHS had been better funded in the first place, we might have taken this situation with a bit more confidence.

    Both Sturgeon and Rabb keep saying that they are following the science. We don’t need to follow the science with great awe now, we should be following what is happening in other countries that had it first, like China and South Korea. They are currently the guinea pigs (no harm meant) that had it first and also the first to come out of isolation.

    Anyway, that’s my tuppenceworth. 🙂

  100. robbo says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    26 April, 2020 at 6:03 pm
    Why no response to the video Cirsium posted at 2.34 today?


    I got to 20 mins .Fur-lowing doctors??? Where did he get that from?Must have said it 3 times up until then.Also how many doctors and nurses have died because of flu if he wants to extrapolate that and compare to covid would be helpful?
    Equating this to flu is crap.
    What country has fur-lowed doctors? crap.

    Sorry Ian , not for me.

  101. McDuff says:

    Interesting name you have given yourself.
    let me say from the start my better half is from England and my daughter was born in England and has an English accent.
    Firstly some twenty years ago my wife and I were in a pub near Heathrow when my Scottish money was refused in payment for drinks, I of course was used to this she however was not and was outraged at the indignity and humiliation especially when the locals sniggered as we left the premises. She couldn’t understand it saying it was no skin off their nose to take the money.
    Then there is the British PM who is English and has agreed that Scots are vermin and should be exterminated. just think about these words and who said them. Can you tell me of any senior Scottish politician who has made a similar remark about the English people. More importantly when this story came to light there was no outraged reaction from the English MSM or the English public as a whole.
    When Andy Murray won Wimbledon for the first time I was taken aback by the white hot hatred towards him with posts on legitimate sites which were laced with F`s and C`s. These posts were not from Scots.
    Again there has never been a reaction from the English population to the injustice of the suppression of the McCrone report which had a significant effect on the Scottish people and their future.
    AS for the number of English who are for independence, they are a mere handful of the resident population who are opposed to it.
    The reality is the English public are not interested in Scotland as England is their number one priority and are comfortable with England`s complete dominance of the UK which of course includes Scotland.
    In short the English may not be our enemies but they are not necessarily our friends.

  102. CameronB Brodie says:

    China and South Korea both responded in a more responsible fashion than Westminster, which thought herd-immunity a valid approach in the face of a deadly and unknown pathogen.

    Could I ask those supporting Dr. Erikson to please provide further evidence to substantiate your position?

    The evolution, etiology and eventualities of the global health security regime

  103. Dog biscuit says:

    Main stream media propaganda rules the hearts and minds of many on here. Some have become enthralled and obsessed by casualty lists and seem keen to keep reminding us at every oportunity much like the media .The way the media and certain Wingers bang on you would think our health service was like the field hospital at Gumrak Airfield.Youll need to look that one up Ayeright.Look to Sweden for a rational appraoch to virus.

  104. Golfnut says:

    Nicola wasn’t invited to the first 3 Cobra meetings. They are there as observers,they are not allowed to actively particpate, if they have a question or a suggestion they have to submit it in writing prior to the meeting, we have no idea whether at any point these questions or suggestions were ever raised at tge meeting. Apart from Willie and the dog’s breakfast is anybody happy with this.

  105. Dog biscuit says:

    Golfnut,’Nicola’ took advantage of virus emergency in order to pass legislation which undermines the cuorts.If Im right it seeks to prevent a defence lawyer from cross examining a crown witness.

  106. Capella says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood – coming late to this thread and I haven’t watched the video yet. However, I’m not an anti vaccer and my research of the Chinese literature so far informs that:
    Corona virus is not flu. It’s a different virus.
    The death rate is aporox 2 -3%, way higher than flu.

    BUT. This is a new virus and many questions are unanswered.
    See this critiqe of research published in California which diidn’t use proper stat methods. Don’t know if it’s the same as referred to in the video.

  107. dakk says:

    Sweden seems to be handling it not too badly. They are well organized ,have their priorities right,and probably have good ppe for their people.

    Little britin had to do lockdown because it quickly became the global red zone and didn’t have enough penny paper goonies and masks for it’s key workers.

    Not rocket science.

    But we’ve got Trident to protect us from all the nasty foreigners who would invade and murder us if we didn’t have it.

    British values indeed.

    You pays your money,takes your choices.

  108. dakk says:

    The seasonal flu has a mortality rate of around 0.10%.

    Some strains of this weird virus are at least 20 or 30 times that.

    Not everywhere though.

    India is somewhere I thought covid would have run amok by now.

    Not so.

  109. bipod says:

    I see the doom mongers on here are still claiming that the lockdown prevented the NHS from being overwhelmed. How do you explain the fact that countries like sweden where they do not have a strict lockdown have had less serious outbreaks than countries like belgium, which is not the worst hit country in the world per capita and it also has a very strict lock down.

    Does anyone else find the medias fixation with reporting the deaths of “healthy” younger patients odd?

  110. CameronB Brodie says:

    So you would have us throw caution to the wind? Can I ask what your logic is based on?

    Health security as a public health concept: a critical analysis

  111. Colin Alexander says:

    There is no truth in the rumours that Edinburgh is now being twinned with Pyongyang, North Korea.

    Some people believe this suggestion was made to the North Korean govt by the Scottish Govt but, North Korea didn’t want their reputation dragged down by being associated with an oppressive, police state.

    This was despite it being explained to the N. Korean Govt that SNP was not an acronym for Sturgeon’s Nazi Police.

  112. Meindevon says:

    Macduff. Sorry, I’m not really sure why you commented as you did. My comment was directed at Jackie (I broke the revs and my own rule there re replying to stirrers). I don’t disagree with most of what you say. I have had the same experiences and get cross at the same things.

    I just feel that the Palace of Westminster is a bigger enemy than the English man/woman in the street with no real interest in Scotland (who are fed lies by their media) and also there’s plenty Scots in Westminster parties opposed to independence.

    Anyway, stay safe and well.

  113. CameronB Brodie says:

    Colin Alexander
    You’re a clever guy, so how was that in any way constructive? I’m pretty sure you’re able to be direct without being direct. 😉

  114. mike cassidy says:


    Little bit of Scotland in the Deep South.

    And as George Harrison said

    If there was no Lead Belly, there would have been no Lonnie Donegan; no Lonnie Donegan, no Beatles. Therefore no Lead Belly, no Beatles

  115. CameronB Brodie says:

    Leadbelly – Black Betty

  116. Old Pete says:

    Some folk on this site are getting madder by the day. The lock down was to stop our under funded NHS from collapsing under the strain of so many seriously ill patients.
    Until we have a vaccine every one is in danger of being attacked by the virus. How we move on from where we are, who knows ?

  117. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Colin Alexander at 11:15 pm.

    You suggested,
    “This was despite it being explained to the N. Korean Govt that SNP was not an acronym for Sturgeon’s Nazi Police.”

    I find myself nodding agreement at around 50% of your comments. But that one was pure dead crap. Like the other 50%…

  118. Colin Alexander says:

    CameronB Brodie

    Good evening Cameron.

    I’m just building diplomatic relations with North Korea, in case any pro-indy supporters want to seek diplomatic refuge.

    Now that Ecuador has joined the imperial neo-liberalism club, where else can they hide?

    But be warned: Morrisons don’t deliver there. But, even if they did, all the slots would be booked up or they would send you the milk cartons with the Union Jacks instead of the Saltires, just to piss you off.

  119. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Are the Yanks hiding something from us?

    John Hopkins University Coronavirus Research Centre claims 1,000,000 confirmed cases in US and 52,000 deaths.

    Their graph that shows a running total of deaths in the US, clearly shows that the cumulative death total as of 21st of April.

    Was 3000 fewer than it had been the day before … What does that mean?

    The Rapture a Zombie Apocalypse or error!

  120. Colin Alexander says:

    Brian Doonthetoon

    That’s fine. I appreciate honestly held opinions.

  121. robbo says:


    Lets do clinical trial and test this

    Just like flu v coronavirus covid 19

    20 people volunteer.

    10 go into a flu ward with people suffering from flu, have a wee chat for 10 mins about the good old times!Shake hands and have a wee cuddle.

    10 go into a coronavirus ward and do as above.

    Wait approx 14 days and test the results.

    Which ward do you want to try?

    The ward with flu and seasonal vaccine or the new coronavirus virus ward with NO fecking vaccine!

    You don’t even need to be a doctor,scientist or virologist just use your common sense.

    I’ll volunteer for the flu ward no problem and take my chances as I’ve had the flu jab every year for past 20 year due to a health condition.

    How many do we have for the corona ward?

  122. shug says:

    You know Labour and Conservative are really missing a turn with the Salmond and Craig murray stuff going on.

    If I was one of them I would be asking the first minister why the police still has a Salmond team up and running when the case is over.

    Would she care to congratulate the former first minister on clearing his name?

    Since when did reporting the defense side of a case become a crime??

    It might choke them to take his side but in the interest of justice!! Nothing like defending your enemy’s enemy.

    The clarity of the answers would be very interesting and might set a few hares running

  123. mike cassidy says:

    Might send you to bed with a smile.

    Coronavirus Crisis Shows Marijuana Is ‘Essential’ And Mainstream

    In the USA

  124. CameronB Brodie says:

    Colin Alexander
    You’re not far off, neo-liberalism is proving to be a bit of a zombie ideology that refuses to accept its’ own death. Unfortunately, politicians understand how to do politics but not much else, it would appear. That leads to policy incoherence and legal irrationality.

    The pathway out of neoliberalism and the analysis of political ideology in the post-crisis world

  125. Colin Alexander says:

    I appreciate the job the Police do on a day to day basis and would like to thank them.

    I don’t think they are Nazis. I genuinely feel sorry for the Police when they are used politically to impose the abuses of power by the state.

    Young men and women who join up to protect and serve the public, wanting to make a positive contribution to society, then being used to oppress and terrorise people for political reasons.

    It has happened during the Poll Tax revolt, Miner’s strike and much more recently too.

    I don’t blame the Police. I blame the politicians.

  126. Dog biscuit says:

    Robbo ,yor silly scenarios are not very constructive .Why dont you tell us instead how to swoon into the arms of dictatorship and stay under house arrest for the greatet good.

  127. Dog biscuit says:

    Briandoonthetoon Nicola Sturgeon is behaving like a fscicist in her pursute of her political enemies thruogh the courts.Have you forgotten so soon? Shat pish you come away with.

  128. Robert Louis says:

    Seriously surprised at some of the folk above seriously raising the issue of CV as being little more than flu, in terms of its management. Who knew, their were so many infectious disease experts and ICU medics posting on here.

    Seriously, though, do you really, really, believe that all those front line medics and ICU nurses are wrong, or are just going along with this for ‘fun’??. That ‘you’, of all people, yes, little old ‘you’, have much greater knowledge of virology, therapy and acute respiratory care/patient management?

    Most of you are just talking utter peurile p*sh, and honestly, I’m astonished at some of the folk involved. Get a grip.

    Next up, ‘proof’ by some of the above, as to why NASA ‘really’ didn’t land on the moon, and the moon landings were all filmed in a movie set in California IN SECRET!…Because a man on youtube says so.

    F***s sake.

  129. Willie says:

    Col Blimp IV @ 9.08pm

    No CB4, I am not Bill Leckie of the Sun. That Sir, is a scurrilous thing to say.

    What I am however is someone who is desperately unhappy with Nicola Sturgeon. Under her leadership the party has gone soft on independence. She refuses absolutely to countenance any approach other than a Section 30 referendum that is on the long finger.

    She allowed Scotland to be taken out of Europe pursuing a failed policy for which she had no electoral mandate.

    She refuses absolutely to consider legal and constitutional arguments to pursue independence. The fact that Scotland as a country existed before the 1998 Scotland Act seems to have escaped her. But of course the 1320 anniversary of the Declaration of Arbroath escaped her to as any commendation of its 700 year anniversary was airbrushed out of all party literature.

    And the Act of Union. No legal challenges there for Nicola. Not a scintilla of challenge. Only the 1998 Section 30 referendum in the gift of the Prime Minister.

    Or even the referendum itself. Told specifically that to remain in the EU that Scotland had to remain in the U.K., the promise was subsequently broken despite 62% of Scots voting to remain in the EU. But hey, not a cheep from Nicola.

    And then the Salmond stitch up and the actions of a hostile state. All these alphabet women, thoroughly discredited by a jury. Was Nicola part of it. Difficult to consider that she wasn’t. But then, looking at her proposals to dispense with jury trials one gets another sense of exactly how this woman operates.

    But maybe, just maybe, in relation to the Coronavirus, folks like your good self CB4 might like to ask why the SG went down the spread the virus route, get sixty percent infected, and too bad if a few pensioners die. That was the true blue Tory policy, and Nicola’s Government took it on board lock stock and barrel until sanity prevailed and the threat of tidal wave of 600,000 deaths caused a desperate about turn.

    Yes CB4 I am not Bill Leckie. But I am an individual who passionately believes that Sturgeon has become the enemy within.

  130. Rm says:

    It’s looking like Scotland needs another Independence Party which is a lot more radical, more fight and more ideas going into the future, the SNP seems to have lost any reason to question the Westminster government on anything they come up with that affects Scotland and which we don’t agree with, it’s going to be years before anything happens, and you can see with lots of comments on this site that folk are gie frustrated with what’s happening.

  131. Breeks says:

    From The National…

    “… ON Friday morning, Humza Yousaf published the Scottish Government’s new Hate Crime Bill. Ministers have been mulling the proposals over for a while. They tasked retired judge Lord Bracadale to consider the state of Scotland’s hate crime law….”

    Can I ask who it is actually sponsoring this ‘vital’ re-evaluation of hate crime?

    Is it, by any chance, the same “Ministers” and their chums who also desperately want the re-evaluation of gender definition?

    Let me guess. It’s Scotland’s plague of wokists isn’t it?

    I think it’s high time the people of Scotland “tasked a retired judge” to consider the state of Scotland’s sovereign constitution, with a special sub-category to re-evaluate impeachment proceedings to depose a useless bunch of charlatans posing as advocates for Scottish Independence when they are simply not sincere.

    I would also ask everybody in the SNP who’s there because they actually want Scottish Independence, could you raise you hands, and start making your way over to the exits, and begin preparations for a new Constitutional Independence Party, which can hopefully get itself organised in time to avert Scotland’s Brexit and colonial subjugation, and generally save the day for Scotland.

    I hope the book is nearly ready Mr Salmond. Please take the time to have it scrutinised by lawyers prior to publication, because the BritNat / SNP’s primary form of self defence will be to see you silenced and prosecuted for any remotely careless disclosure or contempt.

    If disclosing the names of criminal conspirators is problematic for the book, wouldn’t it be worth somebody “taking one for the team” to disclose the names under Parliamentary privilege? There is also Craig Murray, whom the BritNats seem determined to take down and silence anyway… One of us for ten of them has a certain poignancy…

    There’s talk of a Holyrood investigation of course, but what use does anyone have for a rainbow coloured whitewash?

  132. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Robert Louis (7.04) –

    It’s not like you to messenger-shoot.

    The substance of what those doctors are saying (and I assume you accept that they are indeed doctors, not actors) is up for expert debate. The point is, that debate isn’t happening. We are not hearing these alternative takes in msm. If they are talking nonsense then events will prove as much.

    They have the right to state their concerns, journalists are free to interrogate them on those statements, and the rest of us have a duty to try and get our heads around what’s happening. We can’t do that by summarily excluding anyone from the debate.

  133. Effijy says:

    Let’s try for the 100th time for those hard of learning-

    Isolation is imperative to minimise transfer of this virus.
    It’s common sense that you don’t want your loved ones
    Catching a Killer disease that has already taken over the
    Lives of 3 Million people and killed hundreds of thousands.

    Sweden didn’t do lockdown and have suffered well over 2,000
    Deaths. Their population is equal to that of neighbours Norway
    And Finland combined who have less than 400 deaths between them
    With lockdown.

    No one is locked in their homes so if you want to walk or drive around you
    Can. You can visit your supermarkets and DIY stores, eat takeaway food etc.

    If you are stupid enough you can try to socialise but remember most of don’t
    Want you or your kind near us.

    I’m not best pleased with SNP and I’ve explained to them why but I can’t see
    any alternative to sticking with them until next years elections.
    I will give my 2nd vote to any Wings type independence party and hope for
    An overwhelming majority who then take immediate action there and then to gain.

    Troll replies to this as previously will refuse these facts and just try to disturb our attempts to share
    Reasonable and sound opinions and share newly uncovered facts the further prove Westminster
    Corruption and anti Scotland policies.


  134. Tom Watt says:

    Jackie….….I am disappointed that you hate my English wife and my two adult English born daughters.
    All three living in and loving Scotland, all three staunch Independence supporters.

    You are not a serious supporter of an independent Scotland as your immature views have the opposite effect than the one you desire.
    No one wants to live in a country built on hatred.

  135. Golfnut says:

    This link is an important read, it highlights the vested financial interests( particularly the UK gov) of government and corporate manipulation regarding lockdown.

    It’s a five minute read.

  136. Golfnut says:

    @ Effijy.

    I agree, we are were we are, but how we got here has to be examined.

  137. Capella says:

    @ Golfnut 8.48 – re article, while some of the points are important arguments against mass surveillance, their initial graph is very selective. They have left New Zealand, Norway and Denmark off the “lockdown” countries and put S. Korea in the non-lockdown group. I’m pretty sure S. Korea took very stringent measures right at the start of the epidemic because of their experience with SARS.

    Also. there is no mystery about who is driving the measures taken in a pandemic. All countries have rehearsed how to deal with pandemics for many decades. A pandemic is high up in the UK risk register. The fact that years of Tory austerity have destroyed the UK’s preparedness is a political matter.

    Finally, I too believe Bill Gates is a prime example of what is wrong with American neo-liberalism. The way to deal with greedy billionaires is a proper tax and redistribution system. R&D funded by the public should benefit the public and not “entrepreneurs” who then hide the profits offshore. But that doesn’t mean that vaccinating children against deadly diseases is wrong.
    There are better remedies for rampant oligarchs and their lackeys who want to rule he world.

  138. jockmcx says:

    yes and stuart decides to destroy his blog because of

  139. Capella says:

    @ Golfnut again – oops! they left off China from their lockdown countries – a rather big example IMO.

  140. mike cassidy says:

    If Bill Gates is coming up so early on a Monday morning

    It is worthwhile pointing out that the antivaccination lobby hate Gates because his foundation supports general vaccination programmes.

    This is why they spread the nonsense about his being part of some conspiracy thriller plot to reduce the world’s population.

    Did Bill Gates Admit Vaccinations Are Designed So Governments Can Depopulate the World?

    Spoiler alert – No

  141. robbo says:

    Dog biscuit says:
    27 April, 2020 at 3:04 am
    Robbo ,yor silly scenarios are not very constructive .Why dont you tell us instead how to swoon into the arms of dictatorship and stay under house arrest for the greatet good.


    Silly hypothetical scenario it maybe but i see you don’t want to volunteer for the covid ward? Na didn’t think so.

    Under house arrest ! Shut up you fecking moron.No one,absolutely no one is holding a gun to your head.Just exert a bit of common sense, stay at home unless you need to go out for essential business,don’t socialise,wash your fecking hands until this thing is fully under some sort of control.It’s really not that hard, a 5 year old can do it, why can’t some on here?

  142. Daisy Walker says:

    Re the Corona Virus,

    Its new, therefore no-one knows how it will move through the population or affect different groups, or what the fatalities will be or are likely to be, or what the best way to treat it will be.

    Its new.

    What they did know was that it ticked all the boxes for an international pandemic emergency.

    I said this at the start, that if lockdown was successful, or indeed if Corona turns out not to be as devastating as feared, few people will have direct experience of the disease and turn around and say about lockdown, ‘well that was a waste of time, wasn’t it’.

    Kind of upside down, inside out, hindsight.

    What is undoubtedly happening, is that the political ends of the spectrum are using the crisis to push their own agendas (unfortunately the SNP are not included in this statement), and a lack of real data will enable them to spin their version of events until people’s head explode.

    Here is a question I would love our fearless journalists to ask,

    How much are testing kits, how hard are they to acquire and administer, how long would it take to test all key workers, and then most of the population.

    And if they cannot answer this why not, it would surely be high on the list of actions in an emergency planning meeting.

    By doing that, you would have an answer to how many people in the UK are currently infected with the Virus. Probably quite an important baseline figure after 6 weeks of lockdown, don’t you think.

    Without those stats, any criticism of the Government policy is doing so with one leg of the stool missing and we enter the realms of opinion only.

    How many people in Scotland have Corona, what are the obstacles to preventing us being tested to find this out.

  143. callmedave says:

    Aye they did. BBC Auntie said yesterday ‘unreliable figures’ from China. Meaning I suppose they cheated. 🙂

    Douglas Ross telling us on shortbread radio how the UK tactics are best for us on the virus and Scotland must follow suit.

    Then J. Freeman on mobile units for virus testing and …. and well to be honest she lost me after a minute or two there but
    lots of figures and stats to get your head round. Glenn will explain it all later for us.

    Boris on big Auntie listening to the car radio a wee while back
    Same old with hints of listening and taking advice plus involving opposition parties ‘where possible’…aye!

    All the Asian Markets soared in the early hours of our morning for some reason same here on a more modest scale now but the Yankee Dow will chime in about 14:00hrs our time and we will see

  144. Dog biscuit says:

    Imagine the sites bouncer trying to patronise me.Robbo,youre not a very good ambassador for our cause.I do not appreciate little people like yourself, issuing orders, instructions to a poster who happens to disagree with you .You seem like one of those ‘right men’ who must be obeyed no matter how bonkers you sound. A question for you, how long are you personally prepared to carry on under this restricted regime? I suppose youll find fault with that terminology as well. And why have you fallen hook line and sinker for a coordinated Government media propaganda campaign?

  145. Dog biscuit says:

    The inconsistencies around Government attempts to slow down virus means weve probably been exposed to it anyway. We are not frightened Jocks are we?

  146. Breeks says:

    Golfnut says:
    27 April, 2020 at 8:48 am
    This link is an important read, it highlights the vested financial interests( particularly the UK gov) of government and corporate manipulation regarding lockdown.

    It’s not that I disagree with the conclusions, but I have a major problem with the definition of “Lockdown”, and what is meant by it.

    Look at the videos of China in lockdown… everybody has masks, if they can’t get them they improvise, there are test booths and checkpoints for people moving about from zone to zone, there were roadblocks doing the same for cars, and testing for people with symptoms using swabs and thermometers for high temperatures. Being China, and without meaning it in a derogatory way, the people are proud of their country and will do what is asked of them. You had a Chinese government screaming warnings to the world of pneumonia like flu symptoms with a high mortality.

    Then you look at UK lockdown, when even hospitals can’t get testing equipment or PPE. “Lockdown” to many people seems “optional”, if you’re a toff, you are free to travel the length of the country WHEN YOU KNOW YOU’RE INFECTED, but the virus doesn’t care if you’re in a Rolls Royce or a campervan. The airports are not closed, the schools are not closed, there are no discernible control measures on people using public transport. Initially big sporting events and gatherings were allowed to go ahead, and there is Manchester Police called to 500 house parties during “lockdown”. And of course you have a government lying through it’s teeth, with medical advice being manipulated by political stooges, and the number of deaths being deliberately manipulated to save the UK’s blushes at it’s incompetence.

    When you are comparing the impact of Lockdown on the spread and containment of virus, I think you’re on thin ice to be using the UK’s version of “Lockdown” as an authoritative example. The UK’s lockdown was the work of pedestrian amateurs who were kidding themselves it was ok to just “take it on the chin”.

    By Chinese or Korean standards, and probably by German standards, I suspect the UK’s lockdown looks like we were just going through the motions. We should count ourselves lucky that COV19 doesn’t come with the 80%-90% fatality rate of Ebola.

    If your lockdown statistics suggest it had very little impact on containing the disease, before condemning lockdown in principle, I think the obvious suspect has to be how rigorous [or not] your lockdown actually was.

    It is only now, nearly May, roughly four months in to this pandemic that the UK is finally bringing in quarantine and testing protocols at UK airports. Wow. Some lockdown. With that kind of response, the horse that bolted will be back from his holidays and arrive home to find the stable door still hasn’t been bolted.

    To coin the phrase, if your Lockdown isn’t working, you’re not doing it right.

  147. Golfnut says:

    @ Hi Capella.

    I’m not arguing for or against the current medical imperatives, as I commented to Effijy, we are were we are and I mind add Nicola is playing a brilliant game with sh#t hand. I’m much more interested in how and why, the corporate and government drivers and who benefits, in the long term, not us for sure with debt and poverty looking like the preferred levers of power for the UK gov.

  148. Dog biscuit says:

    Effigy,your anti social atitude is the Governments desired result A very interesting article by Vanessa Beely linked by Golfnut You should read it all you who think your Government have your best interests at heart.

  149. Effijy says:

    Golf nut

    We are here because England want Tory fascist governments
    And their media telling them that although are treated badly
    In European comparisons they are Great, a Superior nation, glorious.

    The Tories had privatised around 8% of NHS England and were desperate to
    Sell off more taking all the measures possible to brake it.
    Forcing the first ever doctors strike, nurses pay cap giving a 15% inflation cut
    To their standard of living, Red Tory PPI with outrageously crippling interest payments,
    England stopped bursaries for Nurses Training,no free university education for doctors,
    Doctors signing away their European workers rights to a 48 maximum week often working
    Double that, the Branson contracts for clinics and hospitals the Brexit issued that made it clear
    England doesn’t want foreign medical staff- Note applications from EU medical staff coming to the
    UK fell by 90% and others from further afield have a £1,200 for a visa.

    Next we move on to the Cygnus project designed to test the NHS capability of handling an epidemic.
    Although it has been Made Top Secret we know it was a disaster and highlighted how incapable we would be when the next epidemic undoubtably arrived.

    It was all down to money before life in essence.

    Tories didn’t then head the situation in China, Italy or Spain.
    They should have gone into isolation followed by lockdown as
    the situation developed. That is no Cheltenham 250,000
    Meeting, no inter European football matches and no
    Major concerts.
    A rush to bolster testing kits that should have been in stock didn’t take place
    And there should have been tests for those with symptoms and those they
    Were in contact with, but no.

    The Tories lied pre event about being very prepared, and day after day, week after week and
    Month after month about the PPE they had, what was being delivered and new orders pending.

    We lost scarce NHS staff through lack of kit and testing.
    Sent in to risk their lives by the Tories and many died needlessly.

    Bojo’s Circus pals helped to catch and spread the virus as they demonstrated his not to
    Wash your hands and how to shake hands with Covid carriers.

    Now the Tories have a majority to cover up murder, take on or away all sorts of powers,
    There is no opposition or effective media holding them to account so call those you are abusing
    And killing hero’s, clap in your doorway and scare the virus away, feel good that the Royals and
    Tory millionaires are in it together with you and dish out a few gongs while singing White Cliffs of Dover and the Empire will be returned to you some day over the rainbow.

    Transparency, Democracy, Accountability and Human welfare and rights are no more!

  150. robbo says:

    Dog biscuit says:
    27 April, 2020 at 10:20 am

    I really don’t give 2 fucks what you say,its all crap. Our cause my arse,don’t make me laugh. Every post you make is SNP bad, NS bad or or some other shit.

    You don’t fool me. On an indy site talking about jocks!FFS

  151. Golfnut says:

    @ Hi Breeks.

    As usual, a very reasoned and articulate comment, but the questions remain and require further examination as to why the UK gov acted the way it has. Care for the community of the realm has never been a driver for the tory’s, self interest is, so who’s self interest is being served.

  152. mike cassidy says:

    Breeks Golfnut

    And Lockdown means different things to different people.

    What if your community’s experience of virus fatality means you are not keen on the ending of lockdown.

  153. Colin Alexander says:

    A Constitution for The Scotland Party or whatever name we agree on:

    1. Every member of the Scotland Party, “The Party”, agrees the sovereignty of Scotland is held in common by the people of Scotland.

    2. Party members must abide by the core value that the people of Scotland are sovereign.

    2. It is the primary and supreme role of The Party and party members to establish a supreme national parliament for Scotland’s people, The Parliament of Scotland, to represent Scotland’s sovereign people, “The Parliament”.

    3. The party and its members will uphold the values that members of “The Parliament” shall always be democratically elected by universal suffrage and its members shall act as representatives and defenders of the sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

    4. All electoral candidates of the party must swear or affirm that the people of Scotland are sovereign, and that their primary duty as political representatives is to represent and uphold the sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

    5. The Party’s Main Committee and The Party’s Leader and two Deputy Leaders shall be elected by one-member-one-vote, subject to rule 6.

    6. Party membership is open to all those who agree with and abide by the Constitution of The Scotland Party and The Party’s Code of Conduct. However, in accordance with The Party’s core value of Scottish sovereignty, voting rights are restricted to those who are permanently resident in Scotland.

  154. Ottomanboi says:

    The truth will out?
    World economy close to ‘crash’ mode but lockdown will keep us healthy say the ‘experts’.
    SARS CoV-2 genome still not thoroughly sequenced yet, despite press reports. Sequencing would not automatically provide a cure. HIV virus has been sequenced but as yet there is no vaccine
    We need rational political leadership prepared to say, enough of this folly.
    For that you need guts….not much of that among the eviscerated standard political class and their hangers on.
    An SNP mark 2 will need plenty of guts, backbone, brains and brawn, something revolutionary in the regular political culture.

  155. Dog biscuit says:

    Having read Vanessa Beelys article in UK Column it seems Im not alone in my concerns for our Human Rights and civic freedoms-which we no longer enjoy. Some posters on this site who seem to be defending rather stoutly,the Government line on virus. A quote from the Beely article’to prove who you are is a fundemental and universal Human Right.’ I would have thought the right to privacy and freedom from overbearing Government wete human rights. The perversion of the English language represented by that statement is fascism dressed in the language of human rights.I urge you all to click Golfnuts link .No Ayeright thats not a euphemism.

  156. Dog biscuit says:

    Robbo , have you calmed down yet? Ita in pace.By the by I say Jock to get a reaction a childish psychological trick I know but youre hardly a stretch for the imagination.Why are you so keen on Government policies by the by?

  157. CameronB Brodie says:

    I don’t think a new party is necessary, the SNP simply needs leadership that does not support anti-foundational belief systems, and respects the international rule of law instead. The SNP needs to re-connect with the natural world if it hopes to be able to do this. The woke-nat perspective does not support justice or democracy.

    Why Husserl is a Moderate Foundationalist

  158. Oneliner says:

    @ Dog biscuit

    Your use of ‘Jocks’ in the pejorative makes me suspicious of you.

  159. Stuart MacKay says:

    Peter Bell has an excellent post on the value of organisation,

    So instead of sniping and whining here, it’s time to:

    Rise, like lions after slumber
    In unvanquishable number!
    Shake your chains to earth like dew
    Which in sleep had fallen on you:
    Ye are many—they are few!

    Stirring stuff for a Monday morning.

  160. Breeks says:

    Golfnut says:
    27 April, 2020 at 10:45 am
    @ Hi Breeks.

    ….the questions remain and require further examination as to why the UK gov acted the way it has…

    Yes, I agree 100%. That the UK’s lockdown was so sloppy very much does need to be examined, partly to learn from mistakes, and also to weed out the truth about whether the amateurish implementation of the policy was deliberately lacklustre and criminally complacent.

    I also think, which maybe addresses what Mike Cassidy says too, is that a lot of people have had lockdown imposed upon them with absolutely minimal information about how, or why, what it’s purpose is, and it’s objective. People who understand why they’re asked to do a thing will, I think, be more patient and cooperative, but they will also understand when the lockdown has done it’s job.

    Better education means communities are better able both to think for themselves but also see their place in the team.

    It’s almost like we need the Public Information films you used to see, with Charlie and the Cat, (or was Charlie the cat). I was going to say Duck and Cover, but that’s maybe not the best example. Bottom line is the Nation might benefit from having a lockdown drill so people know the score and don’t have to interpret the news headlines.

  161. robbo says:

    Dog biscuit says:
    27 April, 2020 at 11:51 am

    Fuck off zoomer, you don’t fool me.
    I’ll not be responding to anymore of your shit. You’re a wrong un, I know it.

  162. Oneliner says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    The SNP by the very definition of the De Hoyt (Holyrood) voting system is at a disadvantage.
    What better way of capitalising on the failings of said system than by creating a List Party to fill the void?
    If, as a by-product, the SNP is forced to rethink some of its cosy conservatism – then surely the greater Independence movement benefits.
    What the detractors/establishment are/is afraid of is the undeniable zeitgeist.

  163. SilverDarling says:

    Nicola Sturgeon increasingly comes across as a leader who has lost her nerve somewhat. She seems keen to deviate only within the parameters set out by others and is reluctant to challenge the political point scoring that the MSM and Unionists are throwing at her daily.

    This higher ground she wants to inhabit is all very well but already her strategy is being criticized for being too slow and timid in the face of overwhelming evidence to act decisively and for the good of Scotland and its people. Being a good administrator is not what is needed now. The border issue is an example – will she acquiesce at the idea that our border does not exist except in ‘our’ heads?

  164. Dog biscuit says:

    O K Robbo you can go now shame you wont answer any queries. .Oneliner, it is good to have a suspicious mind.

  165. CameronB Brodie says:

    By allowing trans-activism to dictate the philosophical outlook of the party, the SNP’s management have effectively destroyed the party’s ability to connect with the real world. So the party’s management has effectively undone the SNP’s potential to protect Scotland from constitutional authoritarianism.


    In the field of epistemology, two theories about how belie! justification occurs compete with each other for prominence. Foundationalism holds that there are a few basic beliefs upon which all subsequent knowledge and justification rest. Coherentism, on the other hand, claims this is impossible because all beliefs are justified only in context with other beliefs. This is not simply an issue of moral taste, trans-activism destroys the potential for open government and open democracy. Just like contemporary British constitutionalism.

    This paper examines the basic characteristics of each theory, pointing out their respective strengths and weaknesses. It then seeks to create a plausible compromise between the theories by combining their respective strengths, enabling them to avoid common pitfalls.

  166. Dog biscuit says:

    I almost forgot Im Scottish too. Does no one have doubts about any of the events of the past six weeks? I know some have doubts about Government policy. Governments and big pharma underwritten by Banks and ultimately our taxes.The corporate fascist state putting us all in our place.Am I right or Wrong?

  167. Mist001 says:

    Jim Sillars is 100% correct when he says that Scotland needs a new independence political party. The SNP is tainted now, thanks to Mrs. Murrell and her gang. Nobody is going to look at the SNP as a viable proposition now without thinking about Alex Salmond and Mrs. Murrell. As proven thoughout this Corona thing, she’s not even a good leader, it’s simply cult of personality which allows her to be where she is now.

    I’ve said this umpteen times before and I’ll keep saying it. If Alex Salmond, Tommy Sheridan, Craig Murray and The Rev can bury whatever (if any) differences they have with one another, then that’s a solid nucleus for getting a new party off the ground. I used to include Joanna Cherry in this dream team but I’m not so sure now that she’s anything more than another poster girl for independence in that same way that Mrs. Murrell is.

    And of course, the four names that I’m in favour of all have the commonality that they’ve been investigated by the police which means they’re doing something right.

  168. Sarah says:

    @ robbo – try the Contact button at the top of this page. I have already done so, several days ago – if enough of us say the same it might be effective. My scrolling finger is wearing out – but there is still gold amongst the [pick your own word].

  169. CameronB Brodie says:

    All I was suggesting was folk don’t abandon the SNP, it is still Scotland’s most powerful opposition to Westminster. I’m not opposed to alternative options on the list, though I lack sufficient knowledge to actively promote it as strategy. I’m sure there are other who can and will.

  170. Dog biscuit says:

    When First Minister allows herself to be a media Aunt Sally then we take the hits also and thats pissing me off. The SNP party workers on here have no better ideas than waiting for permission from HMGovernment.

  171. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, I messed up the editing with my post at 12:20 and mixed my opinion with the abstract. Oops.

    In the field of epistemology, two theories about how belie! justification occurs compete with each other forprominence. Foundationalism holds that there are a few basic b!!liefs upon which all subsequent knowledge and justification rest. Coherentism, on the other hand, claims this is impossible because all beliefs are justified only in context with other beliefs.

    This paper examines the basic characteristics of each theory, pointing out their respective strengths and weaknesses. It then seeks to create a plausible compromise between the theories by combining their respective strengths, enabling them to avoid common pitfalls.

  172. Dog biscuit says:

    Robbo and Sarah.If you cant win a political argument have your opponent silenced?

  173. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    I’ve not seen much logical argument coming from you either.

  174. Breastplate says:

    I’m playing catch up but it is unsurprising that there are people here who had nailed their colours to the mast regarding lockdown and Covid19.

    The exponents of this lockdown find it very hard to scrutinise evidence that does not support their rather narrow view objectively. Hence purposefully misconstrued and wilful misinterpretation of opposing arguments.

    Dr Erickson, in the video, was comparing the different political and societal reactions to two separate viruses with, according to his stats, similar mortality rates (not identical mortality rates).

    Some people here should realise that it is only a matter of time before we have all the information and that it will only make those who refused to budge in any direction accordingly, appear more foolish.
    There are still too many people quoting mortality rates of 10% and 12% regarding Covid19.
    It is my opinion that they should know better.

  175. Dog biscuit says:

    Make sure you all give roughly the same statement with just enough local colour to make it sound convincing. A wee tight comfortable ship here just like the SNP.

  176. CameronB Brodie says:

    robbo and sarah
    I wasn’t suggesting your argument is lacking. 😉

  177. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not proposing an extended lock-down but I do consider one essential. Dr. Erickson’s opinion was rather narrow and presumptuous, IMHO. Can you justify your position, or is it simply your opinion?

    Infection prevention behaviour and infectious disease modelling: a review of the literature and recommendations for the future

  178. Republicofscotland says:

    So Sturgeon will ask permission (ask permission of another country jeez oh) to close Scotlands borders if Johnson the head of the foreign country that we need permission from, comes out of lockdown too soon.

    Of course if Sturgeon had been any kind of leader she would’ve locked down Scotland five weeks earlier than she did, instead of waiting on Johnsons every whim on what he wanted to do, which was first herd immunity then he disappeared from quite a few Cobra meetings before he surfaced again.

    Imagine how much better the approach and how much quicker we couldve implemented a lockdown, if our FM hadn’t sat back and followed Londons instructions, and how many more lives couldve been saved if she’d been more proactive.

    I think it has now dawned on her, that she made fatal errors by following a foreign governments lackadaisical plan on how to tackle Covid-19, and that’s why she’s becoming more proactive now, but,she’ll make all the right noises to placate the masses (where have we heard that before? Ah yes independence), and she’ll be hoping to come out of this smelling of roses.

    However it’s farcical to say the least especially when you need permission from a foreign country’s government to close your own country’s borders to save lives.

    The Covid-19 pandemic shows quite clearly that Scotland must become an independent nation, we’ve been led by the nose by an incompetent foreign government, which has cost lives. Some time from now when all the figures of all the deaths from Covid-19, which includes carehomes and residential homes casualties are all totted up the UK wil undoubtedly have one of the highest death rates in the world.

  179. gus1940 says:

    Given the fact that many fit, relatively young, people without pre-conditions are being felled is it not becoming apparent that rather than facing one virus we are facing either multiple viruses or multiple strains of one virus?

  180. Breastplate says:

    Could you define “many” for me please.

  181. Colin Alexander says:

    CameronB Brodie

    You suggest no indy party is needed, the SNP can fulfil that role. In theory, I agree with you. In reality:

    Q. When has the SNP “resisted” Westminster rule ? When has the SNP ever made a genuine challenge to “Crown in Parliament” UK Parliamentary sovereignty? Every SNP politician swears allegiance to the Crown of the UK and abides by UK parliamentary sovereignty.

    Q. Are you unaware of the actions against leading indy-first politicians / activists / party members, without naming any names?

    From my perspective, there are no SNP battles going on for leadership on indy within the SNP.

    The independists have already had their airses well and truly kicked by the Sturgeon UK devolutionists.

    Let’s call it the Dunkirk moment for the indy movement.

  182. Capella says:

    @ Republicofscotland – my understanding is that Nicola Sturgeon will ask for the power to close borders, a power the Scottish Government doesn’t have under the devolution settlement. Once the Scottish people vote for independence then the Scottish Government will have that power.

    That’s my understanding after browsing the tabloid headlines screaming about Nicola’s farcical plan to close the borders.

  183. Sinky says:

    Tory MSP Gordon Lyndhurst has an advert in today’s Edinburgh Evening News paid for by Scottish Parliament which has a Union Jack heading on it.

    Surely this not not allowed and hopefully more will report this to the Parliament’s Standards body

  184. Republicofscotland says:

    I was shocked when I found out the jobs worthys at Prestwick airport held up 10 million vital pieces of PPE headed for our NHS, because the labels were on the insides of the boxes, and not on the outside. Even now I’m under the impression (tabloid reports, though we all know they are not the most reliable) that the 10 million items won’t get to where they’re needed most until later on this week.

    Heads must surely roll for this bureaucratic nonsense, that will probably cost lives.

  185. Alec Lomax says:

    Jim Sillars is 100% correct ?
    He wasn’t 100% correct on Brexit or not voting in the 1997 referendum.
    On the other hand Jim knows a lot about starting a new party, remember the short-lived SLP ?

  186. Capella says:

    I see the Human Rights protected characteristic “sex” has been omitted from the Scottish government’s new Hate Crime Bill. Two characteristics which are not protected are added. One is “transgender identity” and the other is a peculiar construction “variations in sex characteristics”.

    If passed by Parliament, the Bill would also provide for new ‘stirring up’ of hatred offences that would apply to all characteristics listed in the Bill: age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation, transgender identity and variations in sex characteristics. Currently these offences only apply to stirring up racial hatred.

    So transgender women will be protected from hate crimes but biological women won’t. Why?

  187. CameronB Brodie says:

    Colin Alexander
    That’s a bit of a pessimistic outlook Colin, strategic defeat also provides opportunity for learning and growing. If the SNP plays this right, they can defend Scotland sovereign legal identity, and make a significant contribution to western culture’s resistance to woke fascism. Win, win. 😉

    Lyotard and the Politics of Antifoundationalism
    An increasingly important trend in recent philosophy has been antifoundationalism: the rejection of the search for 1ogical1y-consistent, self-evidently true “grounds” for philosophical discourse, and the substitution of ad hoc tactical manoeuvres as justification for what are quite often eccentric lines of argument.

    Antifoundationalism is a category broad enough to encompass figures as diverse as Derrida, Rorty, Kuhn, Feyerabend, Baudrillard, and Lyotard – a11 of whom might be described, as one commentator insists antifoundationalists must, as “antiidealist” [1].

    It is an essentia11y strategic practice concerned with undermining the philosophical establishment and its commitment to foundationalist principles. What might be ca11ed the “foundationalist dilemma” has been summed up neatly in a recent study of post-philosophy as follows: “There is proof, confirmation, evidence – and then there is what grounds proof, and is in itself incapable of being proved.” [2]

    This is a problem as old as Western philosophy itself, and in this sense antifoundationalism is merely the latest instalment in a long-running saga which has taxed the mind of nearly every major Western philosopher from Plato onwards. It is not too difficult to place Rorty and Kuhn in this debate. For all their appearance of philosophical radicalism they operate in a fairly traditional manner and pose no major methodological problems for mainstream Anglo-Saxon philosophy….

  188. Mist001 says:

    I look at the SNP and wonder if it really is just a bunch of headless chickens running around, for instance:

    The SNP stated in its manifesto for the May 2016 Scottish Parliament election that a second independence referendum should be held if there was a material change of circumstances.

    So, imagine my surprise when I read that Tommy Shepphard had written to Pubcos highlighting the voluntary Scottish Pub Code which refers to assistance for tenants where their business has been “adversely affected by a material change in circumstance beyond their control”.

    Is he even aware of what’s in the SNP manifesto?

    Why should he be using the same arguments using almost the exact same wording for pub tenants but won’t do the same for Scottish independence?

    Tommy Shepphard remember, encouraged First Minister Nicola Sturgeon to abandon plans for a second Scottish independence referendum before Brexit.

    So, there’s the enemy within if ever you needed it spelt out for you.

    What I’m looking forward to now is Boris Johnson ordering Scotland to close it’s borders.

    Then Iain Blackford will stand up and announce to the world that we will not allow Scotland to have its borders closed against our will!

    The SNP is a fucking shambles.

  189. Ian Brotherhood says:

    I’ll lob in comment 1690 –


    (Don’t Underestimate Protestants)

  190. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Why will transgender women be protected from hate crimes in the Scots Govs new Hate Crime Bill but biological women won’t? @ Capella says at 1:25 pm

    Probably because that’s what Shirley Anne Somerville (and the rest of the WokeNat Twitler Youth types want)!

    Also the BritNat Westminster appointed Civil Servants (Lesley Evans types) know it will give ammunition to the British Nationalist Branch Offices during the next Holyrood Elections.

    Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others!

  191. Republicofscotland says:

    So Jonsons Tory donor buddies ( they above all must be placated) have come out firing to get the economy back moving the ex-boss of Redrow housing wants the country (I’m sure he means England) to get back to work.

    Meanwhile the English Environment secretary, George Eustice, has suggested that all those employees whose employers have furloughed them, should get out there and pick fruit and veg, 90,0000 migrants once did the job for a fraction of the price until the English government told them to F-off back home.

    Of course people are still coming into the UK by plane, thousands every day, not one person has been screened for the virus. Sturgeon again powerless to prevent this as she is to close her own country’s borders, can make all the noises she wants to placate the masses, however you guessed it the foreign country’s government that calls the shots on this one again.

    However after countless weeks and God knows how many airplane passengers landing in the UK without being tested or quarantined for the virus, London who has the last word per se on this, has finally woken up from of its deep slumber and decided to start testing and quarantining those who land in the UK, and present symptoms of the virus.

    Scotland, as long as we’re led by our unionist nose ring, will be akin to the Scottish Red squirrel, pulling at the tail of the British lion, we are mildly annoying but, a flick of the lions tails sends us scurrying for cover.

  192. dakk says:

    Unless someone has daily had to face people coughing in their unprotected face whilst this Covid19 pandemic was unfolding, then they can fan dance around the issues.

    Has anyone arguing that the limited lockdown was all nonsense had to do the above?

    No you haven’t.

    It’s easy to pontificate when you have the choice not to be confronted with potentially or actually infected coughers.

    If we had been better prepared regards ppe and perhaps capacity, and had not run an acceleration policy, then possibly lockdown may not have been required.

    Even at that,I’m not sure it was avoidable here, or at least in England.

  193. dakk says:

    All that said, 2 months should be long enough to get a sustainable supply of ppe for key workers, and hopefully the wider population.

    If not, then unfortunately the lockdown will probably last longer than it should have.

  194. CameronB Brodie says:

    We have the technology, the SNP’s management can be re-edumicated. 😉

    Relational Ontology Being and Order out of Heidegger’s Socioontology


    This chapter addresses the question of ontology. It is an issue on which each scientific theory explicitly or implicitly has a position, as a theory comes with ontological assumptions. I will in this text show that the ontological question, nonetheless, has been neglected. My point is not to make a philosophical argument; instead, I approach the question of ontology by analyzing the more concrete question of order. How order is made and maintained are profound sociological questions.2

    Social scientists have studied order, in terms of law and order, and how, for example, institutions, identities, organizations are socially constructed and “ordered” in relation to each other. Social scientists have also discussed the more profound epistemic level of order, or in other words, the ordering principles of things.

  195. Breastplate says:

    At no time have I suggested that people should not protect themselves and others. Again, your stance relies on the misrepresentation of differing views.
    As I’ve said before, this lockdown has negative consequences as well as positive consequences.
    I happen to believe that the negative consequences outweigh the positive.

    I’m suggesting that vulnerable people should self isolate while others go about their daily business and that frontline workers get the proper PPE to protect them against viral load.
    PPE will be more easily procured in a normal working society.

    Could you point out the ridiculous or the illogical to me?

  196. Republicofscotland says:

    This excellent article by George Kerevan, shows that the unionist have already weaponised Covid-19 against the idea of Scotland being able to stand alone as an independent country.

    Kerevan rightly adds that Sturgeon must become more proactive on the matter pointing out the severe mistakes London has made, and using them as a bulwark for the need for independence.—unionists-insist-weaponising-crisis/

    Even as I type this Jackson Carlaws screams in the National newspaper that there is no border between Scotland and England to close, and in the same newspaper David Mundell rages at Sturgeon for even thinking about closing the border to his beloved England.

  197. mike cassidy says:

    The pandemic exercise whose report they want to keep secret.

    If ministers fail to reveal 2016 flu study they ‘will face court’

  198. robbo says:

    Republicofscotland says:
    27 April, 2020 at 1:38 pm

    Of course people are still coming into the UK by plane, thousands every day, not one person has been screened for the virus. Sturgeon again powerless to prevent this as she is to close her own country’s borders, can make all the noises she wants to placate the masses, however you guessed it the foreign country’s government that calls the shots on this one again.


    Don’t know how many times it has to be explained. UK borders is a reserved matter and not a lot NS can do about it.
    Maybe because not enough people voted for independence in 2014 is the clue there.

    If they did vote Yes then if AS or NS hadn’t done so ,only then could you have that point.

  199. Stuart MacKay says:


    > and variations in sex characteristics

    So that means commenting on someone’s big muscles, long hair or big/small genitals constitutes a hate crime?

    Well that was well thought out. What enlightened times we live in.

    The law is clearly being introduced to silence whoever needs to be silenced.

  200. Liz g says:

    Robbo @ 2pm
    I was just about to post the very same thing.
    While I am not happy with the Scottish Government on a few fronts ( moaning about yer government is normal )
    Fair is Fair…
    Nicola ask’s permission because the people of Scotland voted for The First Minister to be in exactly that position,and to have to do so!

  201. Republicofscotland says:

    “Don’t know how many times it has to be explained. UK borders is a reserved matter and not a lot NS can do about it.”


    Yes I’m well aware of that, however pointing out the sheer preposterouness of Scotland being part of this unfit for purpose union. Whilst also keeping the emphasis on Sturgeon to become more proactive on the indy front via Covid-19, as the unionists are currently doing via the media is important.

  202. mike cassidy says:

    Coronavirus: Johnson faces lockdown dilemma as scientists warn over grim data

    Public trust plummets in Britain’s handling of pandemic, new poll reveals

    And the Observer’s political editor claims Downing Street wanted this story reheadlined and rewritten!

  203. dakk says:

    @ Breastplate

    None of that is ridiculous at all.

    Agree with it all Infact.

    Point I was making is that at the onset the key frontline workers did NOT HAVE the appropriatr ppe , so more of them would have been subjected to much higher viral loads which seems with some strains of Covid to be potentially lethal to young fit healthy people.

    All I’m saying is some aspect of lockdown was inevitable in order to slow the infection rates until they could protect people who were likely to be working in an environment with far higher amounts of contact with the virus.

    I don’t agree with all aspects of the lockdown however.

    If they get sustainable ppe supply, then we will have to get back to work.

    If it goes on much longer than 6 weeks or 2 months, then as you say that will likely be doing even more harm to society than the virus.

  204. CameronB Brodie says:

    Why not start the re-edumication now?

    Sociology of Scientific Knowledge

    The sociology of scientific knowledge (SSK) is one of the profession’s most marginal specialties, yet its objects of inquiry, its modes of inquiry, and certain of its findings have very substantial bearing upon the nature and scope of tihe sociological enterprise in general.

    While traditional sociology of knowledge asked how, and to what extent, “social factors” might influence the products of the mind, SSK sought to show that knowledge was constitutively social, and in so doing, it raised fundamental questions about taken-for-granted divisions between “social versus cognitive, or natural, factors.”

    This piece traces the historical development of the sociology of scientific knowledge and its relations with sociology and cultural inquiry as a whole. It identifies dominant “localist” sensibilities in SSK and the consequent problem it now confronts of how scientific knowledge travels. Finally, it describes several strands of criticism of SSK that have emerged from among its own practitioners, noting the ways in which some criticisms can be seen as a revival of old aspirations toward privileged meta-languages.

  205. Breastplate says:

    Thank you for the reply Dakk,
    We are pretty much in agreement.
    It is difficult to believe that our governments could have handled this more badly.

  206. CameronB Brodie says:

    I hope you don’t think I’m blind to the ‘collateral’ damage of lock-down.

    “We’re No Angels: Realism, Rational Choice, and Relationality in Social Science”

  207. Capella says:

    @ Jockanese Wind Talker @ Stuart MacKay – it’s obvious that when they bring the GRA back to parliament, as I’m sure SAS intends doing, they will be able to intimidate opposition using their Hate Crime Bill. All of us “TERFS” can be arrested and imprisoned for hate crimes. They are going to have to build some extra prisons.

  208. Breastplate says:

    No, I don’t think you’re blind to the negative impact of this lockdown. I would suggest our opinion differs in the magnitude though.
    But I’m ok with people not agreeing with me.

  209. Iain More says:

    Republicofscotland says:
    27 April, 2020 at 2:12 pm

    “Don’t know how many times it has to be explained. UK borders is a reserved matter and not a lot NS can do about it.”


    Yes I’m well aware of that, however pointing out the sheer preposterouness of Scotland being part of this unfit for purpose union. Whilst also keeping the emphasis on Sturgeon to become more proactive on the indy front via Covid-19, as the unionists are currently doing via the media is important.””

    Public Health Emergency. Close the elfin borders even if it isn’t a power and a reserved matter. If Sturgeon was any kind of Scot Nat she would have had the borders closed and eff the English Tories who would gleefully murder the lot of us. Well we are a verminous race!!!!!

  210. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Agreed that “UK borders is a reserved matter and not a lot NS can do about it.”

    However Health and Social Care is DEVOLVED.

    Therefore NS could have mandated screening for ever person entering Scotland via an Airport, Railway station, Bus Station or Ferry terminal via SNHS.

    Road travel by personal car more difficult but not impossible.

    All vehicles stopped as per VOSA Checkpoints on motorway entering Scotland and subjected to temp etc. checks and either allows to proceed or quarantined for 14 days as per UK repatriations were.

    The BritNats would have been apoplectic but so what (just a brighter gammon hue).

    The right thing would have been done.

    Lives would have been saved.

  211. CameronB Brodie says:

    Breastplate 😉

  212. Stuart MacKay says:


    Going to prison to defend peoples rights. Where have we seen that happen before I wonder?

    It’s a symptom of the corner the government has painted itself into that this even exits as a possibility. If anyone stepped back, even just for a second they’d see what an insane position this is to be in.

    More power to you.

  213. bipod says:

    Seriously why does nicola sturgeon even bother holding press conferences if she is only going to parrot the UK government lines, it doesn’t make her look like a leader more like a local branch manager. I see that the new scare tactic that the UK gov has come up with (and passed down to NS) is that the economic damage will be even worse if we leave lockdown! Thats clearly been pulled out of thin air, they have no data to back that up whatsoever. They don’t even have any evidence to show that there is any correlation between the lockdown and the decreased number of cases.

  214. Colin Alexander says:

    CameronB Brodie

    What empirical evidence do you have to support the hypothesis that the SNP are the means by which the people of Scotland will achieve a supreme parliament representing /exercising the sovereignty of the people of Scotland?

    Do you think no change is needed in leadership?
    Or how will change come about in the SNP leadership?

    Grassroots up?

    I have no knowledge of SNP membership numbers but, if Wings feedback is to be believed, supported by accounts information, it appears that those who are dismayed by the colonial SNP under Sturgeon and her husband, are LEAVING the party.

    Individual leadership: top down?

    It seems some Salmond supporters espouse a hypothesis, that Salmond’s future revelations will bring down the SNP leadership and open the door for someone like Mr Salmond or Ms Cherry to become leader, who will then assert Scottish sovereign power.

    But they seem to come from the same group that still cling to the absurd belief that Salmond’s 2014 indyref was a great success.

    So, there is as yet, no empirical evidence I can see to support such a hypothesis.

    So, what’s your empirical evidence to support your hypothesis regarding the SNP being the only party needed to achieve a supreme independent parliament for Scotland?

  215. cirsium says:

    @CBB, 12.58
    for a spread of international scientific information on COVID-19 see Swiss Propaganda Research –

    It would be interesting to read about Denmark’s experience of gradually lifting the lockdown, starting with schools. in lockdown, Denmark did not close off beaches, forests, parks or cycle tracks because to stay healthy, human beings need exercise, fresh air and sunshine.

  216. CameronB Brodie says:

    Political action implies cognition and AGENCY. Anti-foundational belief systems compromise the potential for effective human AGENCY. Subsequently, anti-foundational belief systems compromise the potential to achieve JUSTICE (see British nationalism and gender ideology).

    Objectivity as a Second-Order ‘Bridging’ Concept
    Part II: Bridging to Praxis

  217. CameronB Brodie says:

    Thanks, of course I’m not claiming I have all the facts.

  218. cirsium says:

    Regarding the fear that the new testing centres would be overwhelmed if lockdown was lifted, I saw this yesterday

    It got me thinking of Scotland’s veterinary services. Scotland has almost completed the eradication of the cattle disease, BVD, which is caused by an RNA virus like coronavirus. The relevant Scottish universities and research institutes have a huge capacity for PCR testing. These machines could be re-purposed for coronavirus testing. If the Faroes can do this, why can’t Scotland? Health is devolved. Why can’t Scotland organise its own testing system? This would allow freedom of action regarding the lifting of the lockdown.

  219. CameronB Brodie says:

    Colin Alexander
    You wouldn’t be trying to put words into my mouths? The SNP is the most popular party in Scotland and claim to support independence. All that appears lacking is a connection to their convictions.

    Yes, I think the SNP needs leadership that understands international law (not me though 🙂 ). And who’s judgement is grounded on more solid foundations that British constitutional practice and anti-idealism (woke-nats). The grass-roots will have to dislodge the woke-nats, as nobody relinquishes power voluntarily.

  220. Capella says:

    On the case: the Hate Crime Bill was dreamt up in 2016 and Lord Bracadale was appointed to review the law. By coincidence, Lord Bracadale was the judge in the HM Advocate v Sheridan & Sheridan case when the prosecutor was A Prentice QC, the very one who prosecuted Alex Salmond and is pursuing Craig Murray. He has been the judge in A Prentice cases on other occasions, notably in securing convictions in murder trials where there was no body e.g. the Arlene Fraser case.
    Lord Bracadale was also senior prosecutor in the Lockerbie bombing trial.,_Lord_Bracadale

    In 2018 a consultation was held on the Hate Crime Bill – anyone here heard of it? There were 1,158 responses (no indication of how many were from people living in Scotland). From this flimsy base the case for presenting the Hate Crime Bill is built.

    So why are women the only social group not protected by this bill? Did none of the consultees consider it important?

    We might have thought that, after withdrawing the GRA temporarily, and in the middle of a pandemic, we might have had some respite from having to defend our rights. But no. Now is the time when the woke faction sees its opportunity to push through legal reforms to their advantage.

  221. Col.Blimp IV says:


    Relieved to hear that you are not Bill Leckie (saves me from having to disinfect my screen).

    The only criticisms you made of the Wokestress in Chief, with which I have issue would be over the corona virus,

    Firstly I would say your assessment of her obediently toeing the UK line is a little harsh.

    But it is the demonizing of the word “Herd Immunity” I disagree with.

    Herd Immunity is why we no longer fear smallpox, polio, TB etc. A comprehensive immunization programme or the disease infecting as many people as it takes before it runs out of steam, are the only methods that brings about that immunity.

    In the absence of effective treatments for those who are severely stricken by the disease and the fact than nobody knows how many months or years it will take to find a vaccine.

    The alternatives are Eternal Super Lockdown – Take it on the Chin – Somewhere in Between.

    Somewhere in Between is THE ONLY sensible option, unfortunately nobody knows exactly where to draw the line.

    Only that if your hospital system is unable to cope with the extra casualties – You are on the wrong side of that line.

  222. CameronB Brodie says:

    The current health crises must surely highlight the need for a legal respect of natural law and biology. Without this, politics and law become oppressive.

    Beyond liberty: social values and public health ethics in responses to COVID-19
    Legal and policy responses to COVID-19 rest on and express the balance of different basic values and principles. Earlier and current regulatory approaches bring into sharp relief how liberty must be understood and weighed against other values. This is for the sake of liberty itself, but crucially too for other compelling aspects of social justice….

  223. Clapper57 says:

    I appreciate there is a lot of things going on just now but sometimes the mediocre things need to be addressed as much as the important things such as :

    When is Noddy Holder going to ask Tim Martin for his face back ?

    I say the above is mediocre but I think this might be important for Noddy……let’s face it…….if Noddy wants to save face then he might need to arrange a face off with Tim….perhaps face to face might just do it..on the face of it…Noddy would be justified in deciding to just face up to the real prospect of Tim not giving it back…and Noddy will end up having a long face………chances are if he asks Tim …Tim will probably about face..and then just…. do one….not meaning make a NEW face but run.

    Personally I think it’s better Noddy asks Tim now…before Tim falls flat on his face…though I suspect , via recent pictures, he already has….though do not take my observation at face value.

    Got that off my chest…so can rest easy now….fully prepared to face the consequences of this comment being perceived as trivial sheeite ….I know my worth…and I am ready to face the music…speaking of music I am currently listening to the Small Faces…the track All or Nothing…which is what I believe Noddy should say to Tim when he asks for his face back.

  224. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Capella says:
    @ 1:25 pm

    “So transgender women will be protected from hate crimes but biological women won’t. Why?”

    There are few things I hate more than “Hate Crime”, as long as the statute book claims that such a thing exists, there can never be equality.

    Violence, discrimination and verbal abuse directed against an individual or group, or incitement thereof, is wrong – Nobody disagrees with that.

    This justice pecking order bulshit, serves only to re-enforce prejudice and create enmity where none previously existed.

  225. Republicofscotland says:

    “Mist001 says:
    27 April, 2020 at 1:28 pm
    I look at the SNP and wonder if it really is just a bunch of headless chickens running around, for instance:”


    If only Sturgeon has the courage of her convictions over the last three years on actually holding a indyref, as she has now about diverting from the unionist plans on Covid-19.

    We might have saved more lives if she’d used those countless mandates, and we’d still possibly be under the EU protective arm, and would’ve received our share of EU PPE.

    However Sturgeon and her clique were far more obsessed by remaining in the EU, than gaining independence, which in turn left us at the mercy of Londons ill though out plans on Covid-19, that’s surely cost lives on both sides of the border.

    For those that are unaware of Craig Murrays excellent trial coverage and the machinations of the SNP and Police Scotland surrounding it, will think Sturgeon has acquitted herself so far admirably with regards to her handling, and modest stateswomanship around this pandemic, which is already reflecting itself in the polls.

    This surge in popularity however does not equate to Sturgeon calling an indyref anytime soon, three years of Westminster turmoil have passed, we’ve exited the EU, and independence is no closer. Infact the Salmond scandal suggests its further away than ever.

    Though there are those if they could be manoeuvred into position (Angus B. MacNeil) would follow in Salmonds footsteps of 2014. Sadly as Jim Sillars says, something is rotten in the SNP, and must be cut out before we can move forward on the indy front.

    Maybe the oncoming washing of Sturgeons and her cliques dirty laundry in public will be the panacea the SNP needs.

    If not, there are others willing and able, that’s why Craig Murray and Alex Salmond are in the unionist crosshairs at the moment, they fear they’ll, (along with the Rev) expose what needs exposing, and in the process, change Scotland for the better.

    We may have to take several steps backwards in order to move forwards.

  226. Republicofscotland says:

    “Herd Immunity is why we no longer fear smallpox, polio, TB etc. ”


    Actually TB is still claiming many lives, and cases are still in the millions. Indeed if anything they’ll be an explosion of TB and other contagious and fatal diseases in the coming years in Sub-Saharan Africa and Asia, as resources are switched away from them and into coping with Covid-19.

  227. CameronB Brodie says:

    If Scotland does not reject anti-foundational belief systems, such as British nationalism and gender ideology, then Scotland ain’t got much of a future, frankly. Are we going to sit around and watch Scots law be turned into a tool of social oppression? Really?

    Coronavirus Ethics and Policy Insights and Resources
    The Berman Institute of Bioethics is striving to ensure that the international public health response to COVID-19 is ethically informed as well as effective.

  228. Breastplate says:

    Col.Blimp IV,
    Yes, I agree about the choices of Absolute lockdown, no lockdown or something in between.
    Some people here believe a ‘herd immunity’ strategy is a death sentence for them, this is incorrect.

    They should reflect on the possibility that Stockholm could be the first capital city in Europe that they can safely visit a bustling market place without fear of contracting Covid19

  229. Col.Blimp IV says:


    I had always wondered what he was complaining about.

  230. CameronB Brodie says:

    Herd immunity is not an acceptable strategy when faced with a deadly an unknown pathogen. It defies the first principle of law and public policy. DO NO HARM!

  231. Col.Blimp IV says:


    I tick quite a few of the danger boxes :

    Over 60, overweight, on high blood pressure medication, 20 fags a day for 45years, have had a heart attack.

    But it is impossible to hide from the boogeyman forever – you would go barking mad.

  232. Breastplate says:

    Whether you feel it is an acceptable strategy or not it is already in use.

  233. Breastplate says:

    Also CBB,
    I’m not sure we can argue we have not added to our knowledge about the virus since December 2019.
    I understand what you are saying but you have to admit that your point has a limited shelf life.

  234. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m led to believe that was the initial rational, which I feel requires thorough investigation.

    History in a Crisis — Lessons for Covid-19

  235. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m arguing from the perspective of public-health ethics. I’m not sure where you’re coming from, though I don’t think it’s anywhere nasty. 😉

    Statement on COVID-19: ethical considerations from a global perspective

  236. Col.Blimp IV says:


    I am aware that TB has made a comeback in the UK, universal vaccination stopped here about 20 years ago because it had been close to eradicated and all the TB Isolation Hospitals have long since been re-purposed or turned over to new housing.

  237. Dorothy Devine says:

    I see Jackson Carlaw is a parrot – basically parroting his ‘betters’

    There is no border we are all one big happy family , celebrating good old Queen and country , patting ourselves on the back and telling ourselves that the world looks up to the great , Great Britain.

    Makes one somewhat nauseated.

  238. Breastplate says:

    Sorry CBB,
    I was just reading your article.
    As I’ve already posted before, there are consequences for every decision.

    From a Public Health perspective, I don’t believe you can successfully argue that the lockdown equates to “Do no harm”.

    The article was right about this crisis being made into a drama in 3 acts.

  239. Beaker says:

    Robert Preston totally deflated on latest update. Typical long winded question and all primed for the follow up.
    Answer was…. “No. Next question please.”

  240. CameronB Brodie says:

    “From a Public Health perspective, I don’t believe you can successfully argue that the lockdown equates to “Do no harm”.”

    As far as I’m concerned, your opinion holds no weight as you’ve provided no justification to your objection to a precautionary approach. I have never equated the lock-down with doing no harm, that is a product of your imagination.

    It is the herd immunity approach that was unprincipled.

  241. callmedave says:

    £60,000 per healthcare worker who dies for corona virus.

  242. Breastplate says:

    I understand about a precautionary approach. It is the extent of the precautions we disagree about.

  243. CameronB Brodie says:

    That I am very happy to accept. Informed judgement is the foundations of good government. Unfortunately, without adequate testing, we simply don’t know how widespread this pathogen is.

  244. CameronB Brodie says:

    Brexit has shown us that Westminster has no respect for Scotland’s legal identity. If you can’t get your legal identity recognised, you can’t make effective claims to human rights. Constitutional practice that is incompatible with international law, can not support constitutional justice.

    Responding to Covid-19 — A Once-in-a-Century Pandemic?
    In any crisis, leaders have two equally important responsibilities: solve the immediate problem and keep it from happening again. The Covid-19 pandemic is a case in point. We need to save lives now while also improving the way we respond to outbreaks in general. The first point is more pressing, but the second has crucial long-term consequences….

  245. Republicofscotland says:

    Dyson, Branson, and this other Tory billionaire, want you to pay for the furloughing of their staff.

    Oh and his girlfriend has form when it comes to sticking to fingers up to Scotland.

  246. Rm says:

    Westminster has no respect for the country of Scotland, it’s history or its people, what Scotland has contributed to the world is massive compared to its size, that’s the problem most Scots have went through their lives knowing something’s missing, these last few years we’ve had some hope but seems to be going back instead of forward.

  247. Patrick Roden says:

    Maybe the problem so many of us have with Jackie, is that we have become far too soft and hearing anyone speak with some fire in their belly gives us the shits?

    Nicola’s limp response to repeated attacks from Westminster or the media is reflected in the pathetic responses you read on Wings.

    ‘Let’s not rise to the bait’ is just like the shite-bag who sits in a pub in a working-class area and says ‘I’m opposed to violence when the truth is he is just a crapper but doesn’t want to admit it.

    We sing about ‘rising up to be that nation again’ but what does ‘rising up’ mean?

    Maybe it means more of us being more like Jackie rather than the bunch of soft, meaningless drivel spouters that so many commenters on Wings are.

    When it comes to overcoming Westminster, what history teaches us is the sword is mightier than the pen…every time!

  248. Patrick Roden says:

    Gus said:

    s it not becoming apparent that rather than facing one virus we are facing either multiple viruses or multiple strains of one virus?

    They have already established that there’s more than one strain of the virus Gus.

    The first strain found in China they referred to as the R strain and it was deadly but not as contagious.

    the second one they referred to as L, was less deadly but far more contagious and it is the L strain that has swept throughout the world.

    When you think about it, this explains why the Chinese were unsure about this virus becoming a pandemic when they first discovered it, because although it was clearly a great threat to human life, it didn’t seem to be contagious enough to cause a pandemic.

    the bad press that they have got from the Western press is unfair.

  249. Republicofscotland says:

    Finally the public cotton on the shambolic way in which the governments of of the UK have handled this pandemic.

    Of course Scotland via Sturgeon has been led by the nose by England from day one. I didn’t expect anything else after three years of pri promising to remain in the EU and hold an indyref, failing miserably on both counts.

    Though she and her clique had no problems bringing to trial the only person who did lead us to an indyref.

  250. Golfnut says:

    @ Clapper57.

    Thanks for your wee Noddy story, a ray of sunshine creeping through the smog of distraction.

  251. CameronB Brodie says:

    Getting back to anti-foundational belief systems and relational ontology, both Scotland’s political and legal classes need radical re-edumication, IMHO.

    The Ontological Foundations for Natural Law
    Theory and Contemporary Ethical Naturalism

  252. Colin Alexander says:

    According to a Guardian article based on a 1998 survey, There are 33 countries with which Britain does not have an extradition agreement:

    Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Belarus, Bhutan, Cameroon, China, Dominican Republic, Egypt, Ethiopia, Georgia, Iran, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Madagascar, Mongolia, Namibia, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, UAE, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Venezuela and Yemen.

    Claiming political asylum is an alternative method of trying to avoid political persecution from the Scottish (colonial) Govt / UK state.

  253. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. Your story also made me smile Clapper57. 😉

  254. Colin Alexander says:

    Rock used to recommend Iceland to Stu but, Norway and Iceland are now part of the European Arrest Warrant scheme since 1 November 2019.

  255. Colin Alexander says:

    However, “When Britain left the EU on 31 January, three EU countries – Germany, Austria and Slovenia – announced they would stop surrendering their nationals to British law enforcement” says the Guardian.

  256. Sensibledave says:

    Patrick Roden 6.47

    You wrote “ When it comes to overcoming Westminster, what history teaches us is the sword is mightier than the pen…every time!”

    … Yeah, best not bother with the whole democracy malarkey, better to impose your will on your fellow countrymen with the sword. FFS!

  257. CameronB Brodie says:

    I doubt that Scotland’s political and legal classes are as profoundly ignorant of the law as their support for anti-foundational legal practice indicates. This suggests the drive to undermine Scots law is intentional. Alternatively, they are profoundly ignorant of the law and Scotland is also led by donkeys.

    Full text.


  258. masslass says:

    Craig Murray Jan 11 2012 ‘Scotland/England Maritime Boundaries’

    Have been reading the latest on Mundell and Carlaw regarding the Scotland and England non existent border between the two countries.

    The above Article by Craig shows the old boundary and the new, 1999. where 6000 miles were stolen from Scotland to give England oil wells. I don’t do links, sorry, mabey someone could do it for me.

    The “NO BORDER” was changed to suit you know who

  259. Colin Alexander says:

    Here’s a legal tip for court:

    Get yourself a Glasgow Academy, High School of Glasgow or Hutcheson’s Grammar School tie or for youse of pension age: an Allan Glen’s School tie and get a temporary address in Giffnock, Newton Mearns or similar places.

    Whatever you do: do not give the impression you are working class or originally came from a place like Pollok, Castlemilk or Drumchapel in Glasgow or Sighthill in Edinburgh.

    Unless you are a British Labour politician, where it is compulsory to pretend you are still working class on £70 grand a year.

  260. crazycat says:

    @ Capella at 3.28

    At least there has been a more rapid, more prominent, hostile response to the Hate Crime Bill than to the GRA. Peat Worrier and (gulp) Daisley have had plenty to say.

    I wonder why that could be.

  261. Colin Alexander says:

    The 1707 union means there is no difference between Scotland and England. We are all GB. Same country, same rights.

    Except, of course, in certain situations, such as when it’s life and death during Covid-19, then it’s:

    PPE is for England only.

  262. Capella says:

    @ crazycat – the OBFA angle? Religion is in there and they added age as a characteristic too. Got a link to the Daisley item?
    I’m off to watch Outlander though so may be too traumatised to come back to Hate Crime. Grrrr.

  263. CameronB Brodie says:

    If legal practice takes an anti-foundational position, it is unable to accommodate the “Received view of theories”, which is a position in the philosophy of science which links scientific theory with linguistic objects. Such a legal position is unable to support ethical jurisprudence.

    Just who do Scotland’s political and legal classes think they are?

    Philosophical Legal Ethics: Ethics, Morals and Jurisprudence

  264. Willie says:

    Meanwhile the Behavioural Insight Unit has come up with the strategy of having everyone standing for a minutes silence for the NHS staff who have died through a COVID 19.

    Stirring stuff but would we not be better remembering how frontline NHS staff were callously exposed due to the government having wilfully prepared to stock up on adequate PPE.

    Treating people like sheep, making them happy clap, getting them to stand silent for the fallen is a mockery when one considers how brutally our NHS was underfunded and the staff undervalued.

    Yes folks, clap for all you are worth, but don’t forget the brave health professionals who have been left without protection by an arrogant and incompetent Tory government who have outrageously failed the entirety of this island.

    And clap also for all those who have died, but could have avoided dying had the UK Government not decided to let the virus rip to deliver herd immunity and protect the economy.. Yes clap, clap and clap and forget about the equipment shortages.

    Too bad if a few pensioners die. And we voted for this, and whilst Bojo was away shacking up with the girlfriend missing Cobra meetings, Nicola and her team were most probably busy trying to stitch up Salmond.

  265. Mist001 says:

    In a situation like today, if you don’t have control over a countries borders, then you also don’t have control over health.

    And there you are, health being a devolved matter to Scotland is just an empty phrase to keep Scotland sweet and is ultimately meaningless.

    Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?

  266. boris says:

    When confronted with a health crisis beyond comprehension and increasing numbers of health service workers sacrificing their lives caring for their patients, it was nauseating witnessing the recent cynical political manipulation by Westminster politicians who decided upon asking the public to “clap for our NHS heroes” who have exceeded their duty of care attending to their patients performing their duties with admirable courage and dedication.

  267. Colin Alexander says:

    By Union, All same UK of GB and N.I. Same legal and democratic rights.

    E.g. England and Wales voted Leave. They’re leaving.

    N.I. voted Remain and currently are getting a special deal to effectively stay in the EU, to a large extent.

    And in Scotland: we have the SNP and a colonial parliament full of colonial cowards.


    Scotland voted Remain too: EVERY SINGLE ONE OF our MSPs and MPs failed to defend the established will of the people of Scotland, not just the SNP ones.

    If it were up to me, at the very least, every single one should be stripped of public salaries, public pensions and barred from holding public office without limit of time for treason against the people of Scotland.

  268. crazycat says:

    @ Capella at 8.41

    What I had in mind was that, with this, it isn’t just women who are potentially disadvantaged!!

    This is how I found out about the Daisley article (in which the OBFA does indeed feature) – I confess I haven’t actually followed the link to read it.

  269. Clapper57 says:

    @ Col.Blimp IV,

    Hi, actually really enjoyed that Slade song… thank you….though in my case “Mama weer all crazee now” might be more appropriate.

    @ CameronB Brodie

    Hi Cameron, glad you are still posting …hope you are well..glad you had a wee smile at my nonsense….makes me happy to make you smile …..

    @ Golfnut

    Hi….glad you enjoyed it…and hope it did give you some respite…..until me next piece of sheeite…Lol

    Take care ….have a good evening peeps …what’s left of it…

  270. Rm says:

    The SNP MPs down in Westminster should have locked themselves in, chained themselves to the seats until Scotland got its voice heard, nae a lot o fight in ony a them doon at Westminster, brexits still happening, Ian Blackford said it would never happen, that was the time for him to show his worth, it’s nae looking good,

  271. Old Pete says:

    15,000 virus deaths in England over and above the 19,000 in hospitals. Total around 34,000 in England alone, can this be right ? Surely if it is then the Tory government can suffer the wrath of the UK press, media and possibly the English people ? Or is this fake news ? Anyone know the facts and figures from a reliable source ?

  272. Capella says:

    @ crazycat – thx for the link. I survived Outlander and now also survived reading Stephen Daisley!! He is talking sense.

    If being “insulting” is to be criminalised there are going to be an awful lot of court cases. But, of course, none of them will be brought by women because it will not be illegal to insult women unless you are a transwoman i.e. a man. Oops, I may have commited an offence there.

    Humza Yousaf,disturbingly, is “an alumnus of the US State Department’s prestigious International Visitor Learning Programme.” Hmmm. Does that turn you into a Wokus Dei?

  273. `A councilor for the Liberal Democrats has apologized after tweeting a photo of a plate of bacon in “solidarity” with Muslims fasting for Ramadan.

    Ian Manning was taking part in a “Lib Dem iftar,” where he and other members of the party fasted with Muslims for one day on Saturday.`

    what level of stupid do you have to become to be an elected Liberal Democrat.

  274. Robert Louis says:

    Picked this up from Rev STU’s twitter, by Robin McAlpine.

    Sadly, I totally agree with the analysis of the current SNP ‘leader’ship and NS.

  275. Golfnut says:

    I see the FBU are warning that brutal cuts to the Fire and Rescue service in England are being pushed through during the pandemic, both men and appliances being targeted. Plus the planned cuts to the NHS in England will continue.
    No let up in torydom towards the utter destruction of public services.

  276. Robert Louis says:

    Colin Alexander at 0824pm,

    Sadly, MP’s now earn even more than 70k. The basic salary for any MP is now an eye watering 81,932 per year (around 2.7 times the UK average), plus expenses, plus free flights to London (also for your family) plus subsidised food and alcohol, plus accomodation costs for a second home in London. And then to top it off, the very, very best gold-plated pension scheme in the UK, if not the world.

    Honestly, if I was giving career guidance to young folk, I’d tell them, get elected as an MP. Do whatever you need to, say anything required and suck up to whoever you need to – oh and lie as often as you wish. Their are few other jobs with such excellent terms and conditions right now.

    Nae wonder MP’s greet when they lose an election. No wonder the SNP have all got so comfy down there.

  277. Rm says:

    The internet is the big problem, everything anyone says is seen by everybody.

  278. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Capella says:

    “Humza Yousaf,disturbingly, is “an alumnus of the US State Department’s prestigious International Visitor Learning Programme.” Hmmm. Does that turn you into a Wokus Dei?”

    I have often wondered how many of the SNP’s MSP’s, researchers, SPADS, etc have been part-educated in the US and to what extent they have influenced the adoption of Globalist-friendly policy positions.

    The first evidence I encountered of the Americanisation of the SNP was at a Westminster bi-elction in Falkirk – The office seemed to be awash with American “Interns” and I am sure it was there that I discovered that we had hired a CEO, a creepy looking geeky guy.

    I wonder what became of him?

  279. Capella says:

    @ Col.BlimpIV – creepy – like Invasion of the Body Snatchers or The Midwitch Cuckoos?

    In the mid 1970s , while the oil boom was getting underway lots of mid-twenties American chaps popped up around rural Aberdeenshire. They appeared to have no visible means of support and lived in people’s attics “helping out” around the farm etc. I assumed the CIA was recruiting a lot of graduates with a deep interest in Scotland for some reason.

  280. MorvenM says:

    Panorama: “Have the UK government failed the NHS?” for those of you who don’t pay the TV tax.

  281. Confused says:

    hudson is usually good – getting people to pay for their own chains

    snippet –

    Herman Kahn was also the inspiration for the Dr. Strangelove character

    So Herman Kahn comes up to you after the talk and says, “You actually identified the rip-off perfectly.”

    MICHAEL HUDSON: What he said was, “We’ve pulled off the greatest ripoff in history. We’ve gone way beyond anything that British Empire ever thought of.” He said, “That’s a success story. Most people think imperialism is bad; you’ve shown how it’s the greatest success story — we get a free lunch forever!”

  282. Lothianlad says:

    Does anyone have info about whistleblowing on NHS regarding lack of PPE??
    I am a front line nurse and… I shit you not…. I was informed in writing I could be sanctioned if I wore a gown to protect me and others from covid 19.

    Got to love these nhs managers eh??
    Unions ? Dont go there… managements lap dogs!!

  283. K1 says:

    After watching the Panorama video posted above by Morven, we can all now know the reason why Covid19 was downgraded from a hghly infectious disease by the UKGov on 19th March 2020.

    The shortage of the essential PPE that health and care workers needed for a pandemic such as this as recommended by WHO, was so low in the NHS stockpile, and having left it too late to procure the necessary PPE during February, when it was already known how serious and infectious it was, the UKgov ensured the deaths of so far of over 100 health care workers by downgrading their PPE accordingly.

    It had nothing to do with ‘following the science’ and everything to do with covering their own arses and reframing the narrative to avoid further scrutiny. The documentary is a damning indictment not only of incompetence but of the shear manipulation of the entire population of the UK.

    That the Scottish government did nothing but stay in lock step with the UK gov makes them equally culpable.

    It’s a fucking disgrace what is happening, appalling death rate and no testing and tracing during this past month and a bit that we’ve been in lockdown, simply because they do not have the swabs to do the testing. And that is the only reason they are keeping us in lockdown for much longer than probably any other country will do and still we are heading to lead the world, not just Europe, but the fucking world in our death rates.

    Fucking utter bastards the lot of them.

  284. twathater says:

    @ Robert Louis 10.39PM Thanks for that Robin McAlpine link I totally agree with Mc Alpine’s conclusions , it is becoming more and more apparent that we have been conned with the SNP non independence party

    Capella you and others have said that you would wait patiently on the outcome of the GRA proposals before you would make up your mind whether there has to be a reckoning or rethink on the way ahead for independence

    We have both given our opinions on the GRA bill and its direct impact on the rights of women , I respected that you and others were upset at Stu’s opinions and disclosures , some even leaving this site because of the exposures but can you honestly say that this new bill that is being pushed by the SNP and NS indicates that she is and has listened to the women of Scotland .
    TBH I am outraged on behalf of the women of Scotland that the FM a self avowed feminist has betrayed her sisterhood by ignoring and discarding their fears and opinions in preference to rushing a bill through which emphatically EXCLUDES real womens protections

  285. Breeks says:

    twathater says:
    28 April, 2020 at 4:10 am
    @ Robert Louis 10.39PM Thanks for that Robin McAlpine link I totally agree with Mc Alpine’s conclusions , it is becoming more and more apparent that we have been conned with the SNP non independence party

    I agree too.

    For a long time I have been highly critical of the Sturgeon strategy. The moment she said we all needed to wait and see the details of Brexit before anything could be decided was an act of capitulation which forfeited all of the initiative to the Unionists and Theresa May, and don’t get me started on the unconstitutional abdication of Scottish Sovereignty over Brexit.

    For all the criticism I repeated over and over, there isn’t a single word of it I would retract, however reading strategy is one thing, reading the person is something else, and I have to confess, the mind of Nicola Sturgeon is a total no go area for me. I cannot figure her out all.

    It’s a bit Obi-Wan Kenobi, but I just don’t feel the force in this one, and I never have. We have squandered five years of heaven sent opportunity, and she has ‘skilfully’ steered us passed by every single one of them. She hasn’t crossed the Rubicon, but aimlessly drifts along in it’s current.

    Even now, today, a Constitutional earthquake could be put before the UN and Council of Europe and at stroke, Brexit would be cleft in two, and the UK Union broken and untenable; England free to do what it liked, but Scotland’s Brexit stopped in it’s tracks, left entirely unsustainable and unwarranted.

    It is there, within our grasp, and where is our Champion of Independence? Fkg nowhere to be seen. Not interested.

  286. Patrick Roden says:

    Lothinlad said:

    “Unions ? Dont go there… managements lap dogs!”

    Absolutely! I made the mistake of joining Unison, so when I found myself in dispute with senior management, I naively thought Unison would have my back!

    How very wrong I was.

    They not only didn’t have my back, but they also had the senior managers backs who I was in dispute with.

    As I began to dig deeper into the reasons why, I discovered that these full-time reps were being paid by the Trust I worked for, as well as being invited to all the nice ‘events’ with free meals and other perks.
    The Unison office space was also paid for by the NHS!

    I can’t speak for other unions but can say without any fear of contradiction that Unison is completely bought and paid for as well as sold out to management, and will not support its members in any dispute against them.

  287. Dog biscuit says:


  288. `The number of severe COVID-19 cases in Hubei dropped to zero on April 24,

    and the number of hospitalized COVID-19 cases in Wuhan went down to zero on April 26,

    marking an important achievement against COVID-19 in Hubei and Wuhan,

    the main battlefield of China’s war against coronavirus, the official said.`

  289. Dog biscuit says:

    Its strange that people only seem to die of covid19 these days.

  290. Dog biscuit says:

    Hands up all those still willing to trade Liberty for safety.

  291. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    You appear to be a bit of an irresponsible fanny.

    Too Many COVID-19 Patients, Too Few Ventilators: An Ethical Framework to Guide Hospitals

  292. jfngw says:

    First it’s clapping, then a minutes silence. I presume the next progression to avoid paying people properly is a wreath at the cenotaph on remembrance day, it’s how you honour the dead when you haven’t financed the service properly. Death is life.

  293. Effijy says:

    You know how Westminster keeps saying small countries can’t do well
    In spite of the richest 2 European Countries being Luxembourg and Norway
    and the Irish and Icelandic nations having recovered so much better than the UK
    Well I was looking over the global Covid stats for the small former Soviet Satellite
    Nations of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

    The combined populations of 6 million is obviously a little later that Scotlands
    and a tenth of the UK’s.

    Why is it these newly reformed nations with no natural resources that joined the EU
    have only had 100 Covid Deaths between them?

    The glorious Tory UK you would expect to have 10 times that figure at worst, 1,000 deaths.
    We know with distorted and buried UK stats that we have 300 times their ratio?

    The Tory Ministers should be answering questions behind bars today.

  294. Effijy says:

    Hands up all those stupid enough to meet Dog Biscuit
    Shake hands with him and sit on his sofa Coffee and Corona Virus.

    When no one knocks your door you better blow up that inflatable doll
    For company. When you get close to it, it’s expression on its face will say it all.

    Don’t let her down!

  295. Ottomanboi says:

    It seems that the experts are not so expert after all, that WHO model is just one mathematical model among many potential models.
    Garbage in garbage out, GIGO, has never been more apposite.
    However, as the philosopher Roger Scruton remarked, “State solutions are imposed from above; they are often without corrective devices, and cannot easily be reversed on the proof of failure. Their inflexibility goes hand in hand with their planned and goal-directed nature, and when they fail the efforts of the state are directed not to changing them but to changing people’s belief that they have failed”.
    Suggest reading THE MACHINE STOPS by E.M Forster.
    The story describes a world in which most of the human population has lost the ability to live on the surface of the Earth. Each individual now lives in isolation below ground in a standard room, with all bodily and spiritual needs met by the omnipotent, global Machine. Travel is permitted, but is unpopular and rarely necessary. Communication is made via a kind of instant messaging/video conferencing machine with which people conduct their only activity: the sharing of ideas and what passes for knowledge.
    Stop the Machine?

  296. mike cassidy says:

    MacAskill says ‘dark forces’ were at work in Salmond trial

    As reported in the Glasgow Herald.

    The Salmond trial was always a win/win for the unionists.

    Note there is no mention of Craig Murray.

  297. CameronB Brodie says:

    You are aware the Roger Scruton is the philosopher of choice for the Tory minded?

  298. CameronB Brodie says:

    Roger Scruton doesn’t believe in natural law or natural rights.

    “Nonsense on Stilts.”
    Roger Scruton on Natural Rights

  299. Dog biscuit says:

    CBByou have no thought processes that dont come from a text book Effigy ,you have no thought process.

  300. CameronB Brodie says:

    Roger Scruton espouses the pinnacle of Torydum, as he see humanity separate and above nature. Just like woke-nats.

    Roger Scruton on Human Nature

    Are human beings fundamentally different from other animals? Roger Scruton argues that we are, and that we need to think about ourselves in non-biological terms. He explains these ideas in conversation with Nigel Warburton.

  301. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    My thought process are tuned to enable me to share knowledge. Or have you not been paying attention?

  302. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    I didn’t want to judge you at first, but you don’t appear to be the sort who is unable to empathise with the needs of others. You’re a man who leans to the right, eh?

    Full text.

    Determinism, Physical Possibility, and Laws of Nature

  303. schrodingers cat says:

    we have talked frequently on wings about the pro union, snpbad print media in scotland.

    there have been some admiral attempts to redress the balance, eg the national, iscot etc, but in truth, they invariably only preach to the converted.

    overturning the hegemony that the DR, DM, sun, herald, scotsman, sunday post etc have in scotland, especially with the core unionist voters over 65, was always going to be difficult

    i had more or less just accepted this situation as an inevitable force we would need to face during indyref2, preferring to focus on our strengths, eg boots on the ground, social media etc

    but the print media’s inevitable slow demise just became a meteoric extinction event 🙂 this propaganda channel for the uk establishment has just been cut

    they may go bust and close completely 🙂 but even if they are bailed out and do survive they will never recover completely, since everyone is now forced to get their print media on line, if at all, many, perhaps most, will never go back to the dead tree press.

    there is a certain schadenfreude seeing the unionist journalists being forced onto the same platform as, craig murray, wgd, wings etc and then watching them sink lol

  304. CameronB Brodie says:

    Wish I was a better proof reader. 🙁

  305. Dog biscuit says:

    Oh and Brodie my line of argument ,trying to get fools to wake up to the dangers of authoritarianism,not from a text book but from current experiance,has been consistant. I can see Im wasting my time.

  306. Dog biscuit says:

    Mathematical modelling is not science. Math is a measuring tool not a crystal ball.

  307. Breastplate says:

    Could you tell me the mortality rate of Covid19 please?

  308. Dog biscuit says:

    Many juornalists would improve if they started their own youtube channels .We may find ourselves pleasantly surprised.

  309. callmedave says:

    K1 says:
    28 April, 2020 at 3:48 am

    After watching the Panorama video posted above by Morven, we can all now know the reason why Covid19 was downgraded from a highly infectious disease by the UKGov on 19th March 2020.

    You are so right there and many including myself posted the change at the time.

    Here is the sequence.

    Scotland acts first

    England follows later

    Then suddenly!

  310. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    I wasn’t nasty until you showed your selfish nature.

    Sociological Critique, Pragmatism, and Moral Practice

  311. Republicofscotland says:

    “Many juornalists would improve if they started their own youtube channels .We may find ourselves pleasantly surprised.”

    Dog Biscuit.

    Many journalists (I use the term loosely) salaries rely on them not understanding and posting the truth. They have mortgages, bills to pay and families to keep, and a union to protect, the truth for many doesn’t even factor into it.

  312. mike cassidy says:

    Schrodinger’s cat

    The Rev got a bit carried away on the same subject this morning.

    A sort of ‘let them eat newsprint’ moment.

  313. dakk says:

    Austria’s successful handling of Covid is allowing them to reopen hotels on May 29th.

    Unfortunately if you live anywhere in the global Red Zone britin you will be highly unlikely to be allowed in to that well governed country.

    Little britishers will be covid pariahs for a long time because of bumbling british governance.

  314. Republicofscotland says:

    “there is a certain schadenfreude seeing the unionist journalists being forced onto the same platform as, craig murray, wgd, wings etc and then watching them sink lol”

    Schrodingers Cat.

    Lets not forget, as the unionist (paper version) news rags die out and move online, so do their proselytes. The British government is already funding journalists for unionist rags, via the BBC, so in effect you’re paying to be lied to if you cough up your tv licence fee, not just by the BBC but by the news rags they fund as well.

    However this is all just a sideshow, the real problem on obtaining independence isn’t the unionist newspapers or the BBC, no its the hierarchy of the SNP, and its reluctance over the last three years to attempt to hold an indyref.

    Once that particular high hurdle is overcome, then maybe we can move on.

  315. Iain More says:

    “Breastplate says:
    28 April, 2020 at 11:08 am

    Could you tell me the mortality rate of Covid19 please?”


    How can that possibly be calculated in the UK death zone when the little Britishers wont publish how many have actually recovered from the Tory Plague here.

  316. Frank Gillougley says:

    Little surprise really, that the Panorama programme on PPE won’t be a death knell for this government, or gain much political traction, as the government were just voted overwhelmingly into power (by the same electorate and with the media’s blessing) to deliver them from Europe.

  317. Capella says:

    @ twathater 4.10 am – you’re right, I have watched and waited to see what would become of the GRA. It has been taken off the table for the current parliamentary session but that doesn’t mean it won’t return. Instead, a new assault on women’s rights appears to be on the table dressed up as protection against hate crimes for all groups in the 2010 Equality Act – EXCEPT – sex i.e. women. Transgender identity and other gender identities (which are not protected characteristics) have been added.

    I will watch the debate with interest – I think it is on Thursday. I have started reading through the papers on the SG website and am not impressed with the consultation process nor the reporting of it. While nobody would support hate crime directed at anyone, I wonder why the SG considers it acceptable to direct it at biological women.

    I am considering contacting MSPs to ask them why the protected characteristic “sex” is omitted from the protection of the Hate Crime Bill.

    Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, as ever.

  318. Iain More says:

    The local figures as of yesterday I believe,

    Covid -19 deaths by council area in Scotland:

    Aberdeen City: 33
    Aberdeenshire: 53
    Angus: 23
    Argyll and Bute: 28
    City of Edinburgh: 146
    Clackmannanshire: 11
    Dumfries and Galloway: 31
    Dundee City: 58
    East Ayrshire: 30
    East Dunbartonshire: 28
    East Lothian: 44
    East Renfrewshire: 35
    Falkirk: 45
    Fife: 85
    Glasgow City: 246
    Highland: 22
    Inverclyde: 76
    Midlothian: 32
    Moray: 4
    Na h-Eileanan Siar: 0
    North Ayrshire: 44
    North Lanarkshire: 125
    Orkney Islands: 2
    Perth and Kinross: 25
    Renfrewshire: 76
    Scottish Borders: 38
    Shetland Islands: 6
    South Ayrshire: 46
    South Lanarkshire: 103
    Stirling: 34
    West Dunbartonshire: 52
    West Lothian: 34

  319. callmedave says:

    President Donald Trump has said he “can’t imagine why” US hotline calls about disinfectant have risen after he suggested injecting the substance to treat coronavirus.

    The governors of Michigan and Maryland on Sunday blamed the president for the spike in such calls.
    Jings! What a maroon! That’s all folks. 🙁

    A useful data check for Scotland: (some menus with it)

  320. Republicofscotland says:

    So the downgrading of Covid-19 by the British government was done so that less PPE would be required, and a fair percentage of the PPE that did reach NHS staff, wasn’t actually PPE, it was made up of cleaning equipment.

    Why did Panaroma air this fatal blow to the British government, is it a threat to it, to back off from cutting the licence fee, or and the Tory governments determination to break up the goliath state propaganda machine, which surely knows about many of the skeletons in the British governments cupboard.

    It looks like the British government and its number one state propaganda machine are at odds with each other.

  321. Ottomanboi says:

    From Gordis Epidemiology 6th edition 2019
    [H]erd immunity operates if the probability of an infected person encountering every other individual in the population (“random mixing”) is the same. But if a person is infected and all of his or her interactions are with people who are susceptible (i.e., there is no random mixing of the population), he or she is likely to transmit the disease to other susceptible people. Herd immunity operates optimally when populations are constantly mixing together. This is a theoretical concept because, obviously, populations are never completely randomly mixed. All of us associate with family and friends, for example, more than we do with strangers. However, the degree to which herd immunity is achieved depends on the extent to which the population approaches a random mixing. Thus we can interrupt the transmission of disease even if not everyone in the population is immune as long as a critical percentage of the population is immune.
    Variables, one of the many reasons mathematical models may get it wrong.

  322. Ron Maclean says:

    If SNP MPs, MSPs and members want the wilderness years (1934-2020) to continue they’ll keep Nicola Sturgeon as leader.

  323. Oneliner says:


    The real problem on obtaining independence, more than the SNP hierarchy, is the intransigence of the ‘Middle Scotland’ vote.
    Given the continuing vicissitudes of London rule, by now the case for Independence should have a soaring majority. There is a ‘dae it tae us – we’re daft’ mindset which cannot see past the stasis quo.
    Perhaps, just perhaps, the SNP sees gradualism as the best option. ‘Barnburning’ will satisfy only those of an incendiary persuasion, but the whiff of petrol never did anyone any harm. Currently, I cannot detect any such aroma.

    As a postscript, can you imagine any equivalent of this debate appearing on a deadhead Lablibory website?

  324. Dog biscuit says:

    Repulicofscotland,I agree but I was thinking ahead to a time when more journalists are laid off from their well paid jobs unless they can find a sugardaddy to shill for.

  325. Yes they honour the dead but continue to exploit the living ???

  326. Breastplate says:

    Iain More,
    There is already plenty of data (and more in the pipeline) on the subject of Covid19 mortality rates.
    I’m trying to ascertain how dangerous some people believe it to be.
    There is a direct relationship between the perception of how dangerous something is and the actions taken to counter the danger.
    Wouldn’t you agree?

  327. Dog biscuit says:

    Full marks for perception Cameron I am indeed a selfish person and it takes all sorts to make a world if you doubt that check some of the other radges on this site.

  328. jfngw says:

    @schodingers cat

    These journalist that are so livid about the income of bloggers I suspect live in pretty fancy houses and own expensive cars. They probably believe the reputed £900K goes directly to the Wings bank account. They have no idea the cost of running a fairly busy internet web site as someone else does it for them.

    The Rev’s biggest mistake, in my opinion, was thinking he could take on the establishment by using the establishment, without a jury he was always likely to lose. They are like the journalists that circle the wagon when criticised, they will protect themselves. This is the same establishment that will prosecute a blogger but totally ignore one of their own that has revealed more detail than any blogger would contemplate.

  329. bipod says:

    Some interesting statistics coming out of the US recently. Turns out for younger people you are less likely to die of covid 19 than seasonal flu, it only becomes slightly more dangerous for older people > 60.

    Does anyone else remember the great economic lockdowns of 2009 and 1999 to prevent the flu epidemics? because I don’t. I wonder how much of a part social media plays in the mass hysteria and panic that is the main reason for the lockdown.

  330. Iain More says:

    ” Breastplate says:
    28 April, 2020 at 12:24 pm

    Iain More,
    There is already plenty of data (and more in the pipeline) on the subject of Covid19 mortality rates.
    I’m trying to ascertain how dangerous some people believe it to be.
    There is a direct relationship between the perception of how dangerous something is and the actions taken to counter the danger.
    Wouldn’t you agree?””


    I would agree in principal but that is impossible in UK PLC where most of the statistical sources cant be trusted.

    I know Covid 19 is very dangerous to me as I have COPD. I expect that if I catch it then I am finished.

    It is also dangerous to my brother, sister, sister in law and two of my nieces. I don’t need fiddled Brit Nat stats to tell me it is dangerous to em and to avoid crowds or getting close to .

  331. Iain More says:

    Oops continued

    “Getting close to English Royals in Aberdeenshire.”

  332. Breastplate says:

    Iain More,
    If you are at risk from Covid19 then you should self isolate, protect yourself, this I agree with.
    What I would like to know from you is, should people at very low risk (I won’t say no risk because that is not possible) from Covid 19 self isolate too?
    If so, could you tell me why?

  333. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    Indeed, it does take all sorts. 😉


    This thesis repudiates the position that egoism can serve as an accurate description of human nature and that ethical egoism can serve as a first principle of society. Ethical egoists argue that human beings are naturally and completely self-interested. They act rightly, therefore, when they act in their own interest. Moreover, acts of benevolence and altruism are impossible for human beings, and social cooperation reflects only the interests of individual members.

    Moral objectivists reject ethical egoism by arguing that humans are naturally moral beings capable of benevolence and altruism toward others. This description allows for societies that include the natural cooperation of moral individuals. To prove that ethical egoists are wrong about individuals
    and societies, I examine Plato’s Goraias and Republic, and John Rawls’ A Theory of Justice.

    In the Goraias, Plato presents the ethical egoists’ position clearly and forcefully in the arguments of Callicles. Socrates fails, however, to defeat Callicles’ version of ethical egoism in the Goraias. In the Republic, Plato again fails to defeat ethical egoism, although he succeeds in re-defining self-interest to include acting for the good of the ideal city. John Rawls’ Theory of Justice
    defeats ethical egoism by providing a modern alternative that denies self-interest as a basis for a society of moral individuals.

  334. Ian Brotherhood says:

    The video of Dr. Erickson & colleague, posted here by Cirsium on Sunday at 2.34, has now been been removed from ‘for violating YouTube’s community guidelines’.

    Make of that what you will…

  335. Breastplate says:

    My sister told me that they were trying to take it down from Facebook also.

  336. Iain More says:

    Breastplate says:
    28 April, 2020 at 1:00 pm

    Iain More,
    If you are at risk from Covid19 then you should self isolate, protect yourself, this I agree with.
    What I would like to know from you is, should people at very low risk (I won’t say no risk because that is not possible) from Covid 19 self isolate too?
    If so, could you tell me why?

    It is simple – We cant trust the Brit Tories or any function of the Brit Press and Media or Brit Govt. I don’t trust the Referendum dodging SNP Govt or Sturgeon either far less that anti Scottish bigot Johnson.

    Self isolate as much as possible to kill this virus off. Don’t give it easy victims to spread to.

    I have one niece who works in an old folks care home and she self isolates outside of work in case Covid 19 transmits to her. Her care home is Covid free so far but she knows even if she is low risk she cant risk passing it to the at high risk residents as that would be tantamount to mass murder.

  337. Breastplate says:

    What is disappointing is that we have done this to ourselves and we have people on here cracking the whip, trying to keep everyone in line at the same time admitting they don’t funderstand the situation Nor do they intend to.

  338. CameronB Brodie says:

    This is a deadly and novel pathogen we are dealing with, so “herd immunity” was not an ethical approach to securing public health. The pathogen’s geographical distribution is unknown, so it would not be rational to amuse the environment is particularly safe, yet. Can I ask where you’re coming from, as you appear to be keen on endangering the general public?

  339. Breastplate says:

    Iain More,
    The Covid19 virus is prevalent in the U.K. at the moment, how long do you believe we should self isolate for as a nation?

  340. dakk says:

    Big Kuwait Airways 777 just took off for Kuwait City from Glw.

    Doesn’t appear to be cargo plane.

  341. Breastplate says:

    Why do you consider ‘herd immunity’ to be unethical?
    Please don’t post a link, I would like to hear from you in your own words so we can exchange views.

  342. CameronB Brodie says:

    My recollection of public-health ethics is rusty, but the appropriateness of policy should be determined by the levels of harm caused and avoided. Herd immunity is acceptable when the pathogen is known and appropriate infrastructure and treatment available. Covid is a novel pathogen with unknown potential to disrupt global bio-security. Letting it rip displayed a mahoosive lack of concern for a legal duty of care.

  343. AberdeenPict says:

    dakk says:
    28 April, 2020 at 1:18 pm
    Big Kuwait Airways 777 just took off for Kuwait City from Glw.

    Doesn’t appear to be cargo

    When you look up Glasgow Airport filghts and arrivals it does not give a destination and has the Airline as ‘Glasgow Airport’.

  344. jfngw says:

    A quick look at the ONS death figures for England and Wales now that there is a few weeks to work with.

    Averaging the using the data from the first recorded death week up until the 17th April, adding these weeks numbers, the average weekly deaths for these weeks then subtracting this gives the total deaths of 26,829 more than the average over these weeks (this years 90059, total average 63230).

    The total allocated to the virus for these weeks is 19093, this is 7736 less than the above average deaths over this period (40% more).

    On this date (17th April) the deaths used by the government was 14,576, the ONS above average for this period is 84%, the ONS allocated virus deaths are 31% above this figure.

    Using these figures the actual death currently is then between 27,600 and 38,800 up until 27th April if the trend is continuing this way, take your pick what number you prefer.

  345. Iain More says:

    Breastplate says:
    28 April, 2020 at 1:14 pm

    Iain More,
    The Covid19 virus is prevalent in the U.K. at the moment, how long do you believe we should self isolate for as a nation?


    For as long as it it takes yah Tory Troll!!!!! Tories committed mass murder in my eyes by initially adopting a Herd Immunity policy. They should be in cells charged with crimes against humanity “mass murder for one” and summarily executed for such. It is never going to happen in UK PLC though and Sturgeon is just another London Rule stooge.

    No new deaths in lockdown NZ yet again.Now NZ is feeling confident to lift lockdown in part at least. I think lifting it in Scotland as long as we are under the English Tory boot would be fatal.

  346. Breastplate says:

    Ok thanks, I agree that the ethical side is indeed related to the harm to society as a whole.
    It is also right that we should be cautious in our approach to the unknown but I would have to suggest that our approach should change accordingly to what we learn and what we have learned about the virus.
    I would also suggest we already know the potential harm that Covid19 can inflict on society in terms of fatalities, it is more of an unknown the potential damage that the lockdown will inflict on society going forward and after Covid19 is no longer a threat.

  347. jfngw says:

    Forgot to add the link for anyone wanting to do the maths themselves, always best to check someone else’s numbers.

  348. Breastplate says:

    Iain More,
    What if it takes years of self isolation?
    Would you be as nonchalant about the lockdown then?
    It’s a legitimate question.

  349. Breastplate says:

    Iain More,
    Just for perspective
    Somebody can archive that if they wish

  350. CameronB Brodie says:

    “but I would have to suggest that our approach should change accordingly to what we learn and what we have learned about the virus.”

    We are in full agreement. 🙂

    “I would also suggest we already know the potential harm that Covid19 can inflict on society in terms of fatalities,”

    I’d suggest we don’t, as we don’t have a clue as to its’ prevalence or geographical distribution, yet.

    “it is more of an unknown the potential damage that the lockdown will inflict on society going forward and after Covid19 is no longer a threat.””

    That’s unknown but not hard to guesstimate. I’d suggest we won’t be in a position to judge a safe time, until testing and tracing become more universal and systematic. Just my opinion. 😉

  351. Breastplate says:

    The WHO said the mortality rate was between 1% and 3%, that was about 6 weeks ago other stats from different countries have suggested it is even lower, so yes we have an idea of the damage although not precise yet.
    Sweden has stats that over 3 million have been exposed to it although I can’t find the interview again but it correlates to what Dr Erickson is saying.

  352. robbo says:

    Breastplate says:
    28 April, 2020 at 1:46 pm
    Iain More,
    What if it takes years of self isolation?
    Would you be as nonchalant about the lockdown then?
    It’s a legitimate question.


    Aye well herd immunity you want eh!

    Why don’t you start with BORIS, the known infect-or(if he’s clear hmm ?) and get him in the commons with his rat MP’s 300+ of them and have a little party hugging and kissing in the back rows , -wait a couple of weeks and we’ll see how it goes eh. He can invite his brit nat scum MP’s too like LAB LIBS DUP

    and leave the rest of us SNP, Plaid Cymru and greens out of it.

    You ain’t trying it out on us you tool.

  353. CameronB Brodie says:

    I don’t have access to all the figures and I don’t know the preparedness of the rest of the world, or what their strategic approach is. All I’m doing is punting a perspective that is generally overlooked. A perspective that is unlikely to survive long in Brexitania, detached as it is from the justice of the natural law tradition.

    Law, Morality, and Everything Else:
    General Jurisprudence as a Branch of Metanormative Inquiry

    In this article, we propose a novel account of general jurisprudence by situating it within the broader project of metanormative inquiry. We begin by showing how general jurisprudence is parallel to another well-known part of that project, namely, metaethics.

    We then argue that these projects all center on the same task: explaining how a certain part of thought, talk, and reality fits into reality overall. Metalegal inquiry aims to explain how legal thought, talk, and reality fit into reality. General jurisprudence is the part of metalegal inquiry that focuses on universal legal thought, talk, and reality.

  354. Breastplate says:

    If you have something sensible and logical to add, I’m more than happy to hear it.

  355. robbo says:

    Breastplate says:
    28 April, 2020 at 2:14 pm
    If you have something sensible and logical to add, I’m more than happy to hear it.

    Made sense to me. If you want to take one for your country brit England go ahead!
    Leaders are expected to do same as the subordinates are they not!

  356. Breastplate says:

    I’m trying hard not to envisage you having a tea party with a cup on your head, enjoy your bananas.

  357. Dog biscuit says:

    ‘Deadlly and novel pathogen’ sounds such a load of political buzzwords to set your mood and mindscape for the acceptance of loss of rights. People navel gaze over ethics while their political rights have been removed .Their freedom now in the gift of crook politicians and hysterical Imperial College London. Ian More, why so many deaths in locked down countries while less casualties in. Sweden ,Japan etc? What if warehousing everyone has a hot house effect?Like rare flowers. We all have to step out again sometime but if the price of freedom is mandatory health passports and chip tracking then Im not paying that price not for you , not for Nicola Sturgeon and certainly not for British Government and their friends in the pharmaceutical industry. You dont mind being lined ip for your shots?Ill say it for you yes Ive had my rabies shots. By the way is it really ethical to remove all of our rights and freedoms?

  358. Effijy says:

    The Worldmeters sure I find very good for updated Covid Stats.
    They say Sweden has 19,600 tested positive cases and 2,350 deaths.

    Where you or this doctor you say Sweden has 3,000,000 people exposed
    To the virus is no more than a shot in the dark.

    I’ve proved repeatedly that all of their neighbours who did not use Herd immunity
    have a fraction of the death tallies pro rata.

    Herding kills more people but is better for the economy.
    I could never spend 2 seconds debating a gamble with death
    For me and my family for an extra few quid.

    I can hear the BBC interview- Yes I lost my Mum, Wife and only Child who
    Had Asthma but at least they have knocked a penny off my income tax rate?

  359. Dog biscuit says:

    Robbo,Herd Immunity has nothing to do with the silly scenarios you paint It merely means getting on with life in the usual fashion. And isolating only the sick not the free. Your such a numbskull.

  360. Breastplate says:

    I asked you what the mortality rate for Covid19 is, you still haven’t answered.
    I have no idea how dangerous you think this virus is.

  361. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dog biscuit
    “Deadlly and novel pathogen’ sounds such a load of political buzzwords to set your mood and mindscape for the acceptance of loss of rights.”

    So you don’t approve of scientific language?

    ” People navel gaze over ethics while their political rights have been removed .”

    It is not possible to defend political rights without a regard to ethics.

    “Their freedom now in the gift of crook politicians and hysterical Imperial College London.”

    You appear to have an objection to science that is grounded in ego. This means your judgement is dodgy.

    Japan’s Response to Covid-19: A Work in Progress
    April 23, 2020

    A cursory glance at statistics might suggest that Japan’s exposure to Covid-19 thus far has been relatively mild. As of April 23, Japan has confirmed approximately 12,000 cases and 300 deaths. But the rate of infections has increased rapidly over the last several weeks, and the government recently declared a nationwide state of emergency encouraging telework and social distancing practices to contain the spread of the virus.

    Like many other countries, Japan’s response to the crisis has evolved over time and could ultimately be judged by the extent to which people heed the government’s recommendations. While it may be too early to reach any definitive conclusions on the effectiveness of government policy, satellite imagery reveals a reduction in activity consistent with the timeline for Covid-19 mitigation actions….

  362. Effijy says:

    Request for death rates.

    Italy has over 60 million of a population around
    7 million less than the UK’s.

    Italy has around 460 Covid deaths per million some 27,000 plus dead.

    Now we know Westminster and the Tories especially are the best we have ever
    Had at lying and burying figures with Boris being a world leader in that field but
    We grown ups with a brain and fingers to count on are well aware that the true UK
    Covid Death Talky is somewhere between 30-40,000.

    Now don’t forget that UK figures help massage the English figures as all of the local UK
    Colonies are performing very much better.

    I’d say that England has already gone through the 500 Covid deaths per million and no sign
    Of the fat lady singing.

    Go on tell me as a fraction or percentage of the English population 25,000 plus Corona deaths is just an inconvenience.

    What does it matter if we are short of doctors and nurses and we kill a few hundred?
    What does it matter if a single parent dies and there is no family back up?
    What does it matter if a survivors lungs are permanently damaged and they have to give up their
    Job to become a strain on the benefits system and the NHS.

  363. Effijy says:

    Just seen you latest snipe.

    I hadn’t answered sooner as I was shopping for a sick
    Elderly lady.

    My apologies for not leaving her to die of starvation or Covid
    If she ventured out not having a lap top or car it or PPE Kit.

    Yes I seem to be spoiling your mass murder campaign in more
    Wats than one.

    Can you advise me if you recorded the footage of that Fascist Norwegian guy
    Who went heavily armed to kill the socialist youths camped out on an island?

  364. Breastplate says:

    Are you suggesting that society shuts down until the only people that ever die are those that die from natural causes?
    If that is not the case, then tell me what your acceptable number of deaths are then, for society to function as normal.
    Tell me why you have never campaigned for the construction industry to be shut downtosave lives?
    Tell me why you have never campaigned to shutdown roads to save lives?
    Perhaps you consider the number of deaths insufficient to lockdown society?

    It’s all a matter of numbers.
    Your pretence of otherwise reeks of hypocrisy.

    Now explain to me why you are not a hypocrite?

  365. Breastplate says:

    at no time have I suggested you let people die.
    Your misrepresentation of my stance shows your own inability to defend yours.

  366. CameronB Brodie says:

    I know that time is a precious commodity and not everyone is in a position to access the knowledge I’m linking to, but this stuff is relevant. Full text.

    “Me, myself & I”: Practical egoism, selfishness, self-interest and business ethics

  367. CameronB Brodie says:

    Trust me.

    Encyclopedia of Business Ethics and Society

  368. Lothianlad says:

    Patrick Roden, you are so right.
    Unison is in Partnership with the management. Cosy relationships that put the union member last.
    If only the members could hold them to account?
    Best to expose the sell out and gain legal advice if possible.
    I detest the unions. The full time reps stab members in the back , and smile when doing it

  369. Iain More says:

    Breastplate says:
    28 April, 2020 at 1:46 pm

    Iain More,
    What if it takes years of self isolation?
    Would you be as nonchalant about the lockdown then?
    It’s a legitimate question.

    Ah fuck off yah black hearted Tory Yoon cunt.

  370. Iain More says:

    Iain More says:
    28 April, 2020 at 4:00 pm

    Breastplate says:
    28 April, 2020 at 1:46 pm

    Iain More,
    What if it takes years of self isolation?
    Would you be as nonchalant about the lockdown then?
    It’s a legitimate question.

    I forgot to add – I am not prepared to sacrifice anybody to the Tory Yon God Mammon.Unlike you obviously. You are the one being nonchalant and cavalier about Human life.

  371. Breastplate says:

    Iain More,
    I take it you have come to your intellectual limit.
    Will you be sticking your head up your own arse or will you be using robbo”s for a change of scenery?

  372. Breastplate says:

    Iain More,
    You’re already responsibe for lives lost in society.

  373. Effijy says:

    The only people who have an acceptable death are those who
    Had the support that tried to maintain their quality of life.

    Accidents kill but that is why health and safety must prevail and develop
    To minimise deaths and injury but they can never be completely stopped.

    Herding kills the weak and vulnerable that can live on happily if they can
    Avoid the Covid virus.

    The Tories have murdered thousands through lack of preparation, inaction
    When all the warning signs came out of China and Italy, a failure to distribute
    The PPE they had, by not accepting the help of the EU and local manufactures,
    By reducing the status of the worst health threat to the country in 100 years to
    Justify a fool’s reduction on the PPE required.

  374. Iain More says:

    “” Breastplate says:
    28 April, 2020 at 4:03 pm

    Iain More,
    I take it you have come to your intellectual limit.
    Will you be sticking your head up your own arse or will you be using robbo”s for a change of scenery?””


    Getting a bit upset are yah yee anti Scottish bigot?

  375. Iain More says:

    “Breastplate says:
    28 April, 2020 at 4:09 pm

    Iain More,
    You’re already responsibe for lives lost in society.”


    Heck you cant blame me for voting Tory and murdering folk. I wouldn’t even wish herd immunity on the English. Heck 55% of them didn’t even vote for the Tory Goosestep Party unlike you obviously.

  376. CameronB Brodie says:

    Iain More
    I don’t mean to take sides but I get the impression Breastplate has a genuine concern for the greater good, which doesn’t appear to be grounded in a psychology of assumed privilege and over-inflated ego. I’m as prone to being wrong as anyone else, but I don’t think so on this occasion. 😉

  377. Breastplate says:

    There is no risk to vulnerable people in a society that has herd immunity.
    There is no more risk to a vulnerable person in Stockholm than London if they are self isolating.

  378. Breastplate says:

    Iain More,
    Yes, I’m upset because your well considered argument has devastated me.
    You win, I’m crushed.

  379. Effijy says:


    Many Vulnerable people required help to get through life.
    Perhaps a Community Nurse calls by, a Carer helps them dress
    And does a little hose work, Meals on Wheels.
    Opticians and Chiropodists visit.

    Now if these guys are not tested or isolating they pass on the virus
    And the Virus kills.

    Herding has killed many who have never been classed as vulnerable or elderly
    But if they had been isolated earlier then they would be alive.

    Herding Kills people who would have lived with self isolating.
    No doubt, No argument, No Tory Fascist policies policies for me.

  380. Breastplate says:

    PPE still needs to be used to protect people.
    It is still accurate to say it is as safe to self isolate in Stockholm as it is to self isolate in London.

  381. CameronB Brodie says:

    It is still accurate to suggest Sweden has a generally more socially responsible society than UKOKplc. (see Brexit).


    How one values things says a lot about an individual’s ethical perspective. Those who’ve been paying attention will have noticed me mentioning “Ubuntu” on a number of occasions, and were probably wondering why.


    Modern economic theory of self-interest alleges that in their economic relations people always behave in a way that maximises their utility. The idea whether human beings were solely self-interested has a long history as it can be seen from the writings of Greek philosophers and the Church fathers.

    Among Greek philosophers there were those who argued that human beings were naturally self-interested (Aristotle) and those who maintained that human beings were communal by nature (Plato, Stoics and the Pythagoreans). The later position was adopted by the Church fathers as they condemned
    self-interest as the sin of avarice and greed.

    The justification of self-interest in human and political activities was part and parcel of the economic and political early modernists, as it can be seen in the works of Mandeville, Hobbes, Hume and Adam Smith. In the writings of these thinkers, the flourishing of wealth depended on individual freedom to pursue their self-interests. In this regard, self-interest became the sole source of motivation in the behaviour of homo economicus.

    A persistent motif in late modern economic discourse on self-interest is based on the idea that people think and act on the basis of that which is to their self-interest. It is mainly for this reason that late modern economic thinkers maintain that society would prosper when people are left alone to pursue their self-interests. Late modern economic theory of utility maximisation alleges that individuals act only after calculating costs and benefits.

    The argument of this thesis, based on the commonalities between African humanism and process philosophical anthropology, is that self-interest is antithetical to communal life as advocated in the ethic of Ubuntu. One who acts solely on the basis of maximising his or her utility would inevitably deprive others of a humane existence.

    A holistic metaphysical outlook based on the relatedness and interrelatedness of everything that exists as we find it in African humanism and process philosophical anthropology implies that the individual exists in internal relations with everything else. We should go beyond self-interest by giving primacy to a holistic ethic.

    Key Terms
    Capitalism; Community; Homo Economicus; Ethics; African Humanism; Modernity; Process thought; Utility maximisation; Self-interest; Ubuntu.

  382. Effijy says:


    You are missing your own point if herding is in its true context applied
    You don’t use PPE.

    Herding is if you catch it and can’t fight it you die.

    You are 4 times more likely to die with Corona in the UK
    and Sweden than you are in Germany or Norway.

    The later 2 don’t use Herding and they reacted quickly with the right support to protect their citizens

  383. Breastplate says:

    Nobody is persuing herding as you believe it, I was pointing out that there is no cull on the elderly or other vulnerable people.
    No matter what model is used, people will die regardless with a lockdown or without.

  384. Effijy says:

    Breastplate just give in.

    Of course people will die but we must, must minimise the number of deaths
    That that is achieved without any doubt by not herding and by isolating.

    While I’m on I see that inconstant bastard Handcock on TV lying his head off again.

    He and his puppets telling us they always supplied PPE to care homes and gave
    Them testing day one???

    What a F***** Whopper!

    They didn’t have the supplies they wanted a month ago, a week ago today or you
    Can bet tomorrow.

  385. Breastplate says:

    I forgot to add that I am not in favour of this lockdown as you know that does not mean that vulnerable people should not protect themselves.
    Both our governments, in my opinion have made a complete pig’s ear of this.
    I believe we could have done much better but that is no reason to make things worse.

  386. CameronB Brodie says:

    Who is vulnerable, and who determines who’s liberty needs to be limited? We don’t yet know the degree of ‘environmental pollution’ that threatens our existence, so easing the lock-down now would be irresponsible. Yes the lock-down is harmful but letting things rip is potentially globally catastrophic. I think you need to accept this if you genuinely support evidence based medicine and a precautionary approach to public policy.

  387. Breastplate says:

    There are different options, self determination is one that may appeal to many, there could be guidelines to help us assess that for ourselves and loved ones.
    I would be partial to this model but would be open to suggestion.

  388. CameronB Brodie says:

    There are always alternative policy options. Self-determination is certainly not approapriate in this case, IMHO. You appear to be avoiding our general ignorance of the nature and level of threat we face.

  389. CameronB Brodie says:

    It is not possible to defend the moral self without defending the biological self. Simples.

    The Mortal Self: Toward a Transcendental-Pragmatic Anthropology

    Human well-being and the good life are, obviously, regarded as vitally important topics of research within the humanities and the social sciences in general, as well as philosophy in particular. Philosophical explorations of ‘human nature’ – that is, philosophical anthropology, as it has been traditionally understood – may also be expected to make fundamental contributions to our understanding of these and related issues.

    Those contributions presumably differ from those of the special sciences, because philosophical anthropology investigates not only factual questions of human nature – what human beings are actually like – but also normative ones concerning the ways in which human lives ought to be led.

    However, clearly, the good life cannot be understood at all if we fail to pay attention to the ‘darker’ sides of human existence, including our experiences of evil, pain, suffering, guilt, and death. Philosophical anthropology, in short, is seriously incomplete without investigations of death and mortality.1 As Martin Heidegger famously maintained, our existence is deeply characterized by ‘being-toward-death’, Sein-zum-Tode, which is inseparable from our ‘being-in-the-world’ generally, our in-der-Welt-Sein.2

    Human Nature, Applied Ethic Human Mortality, Human Practice, Transcendental Argument

  390. Effijy says:

    Last word on it Brestplate-

    Across the globe many young fit people in good health
    Have died with Covid 19.

    How would they know they would be vulnerable and self isolate?
    Answer- They wouldn’t!

    If everyone self isolated and locked down with the early signs and warnings
    These people would be alive.
    That didn’t happen so they are dead and at higher percentages in places like
    Sweden and of course the UK thanks to them initially Herding.

    I’m not getting on at you in anyway but your proposals seem to skirt
    Over all these facts.

    I’m always willing to listen, learn and adjust my opinion and many tines say
    Those facts were unknown to me so that is a game changer.
    I apologise if I have grasped the wrong end of the stick and it’s liberating.

    Give it a go!

  391. Breastplate says:

    Sorry CBB,
    We’ve already covered this ground. You believe there is not enough information to evaluate the Covid19 threat, I believe there is. That is not to say all information is available at the moment.

  392. Breastplate says:

    that is quite right, people won’t know about the unknown components that put them in the vulnerable category.
    That is why I said earlier that we can’t eradicate all risk.
    If they don’t know about the unknown components under my model for instance, then they won’t know about them under other models meaning that they will still be at risk under the U.K. model as they will still go to the shops or to work if they are an essential worker or live with one.

    I accept you and I have debated in good faith unlike others and that we can both retire and consider each other’s viewpoint.

  393. CameronB Brodie says:

    Do you consider the level of testing to be adequate?

  394. Breastplate says:

    Same for you CBB,
    Thanks for your time and consideration.

  395. Breastplate says:

    No, testing is certainly not adequate, nothing about this has been handled adequately.

  396. CameronB Brodie says:

    The truth tends to be illusive to the individual and needs a bit of communal encouragement to bring it into light. 😉

  397. bipod says:

    Oh dear, another expert casting doubt on the
    second peak
    scare tactic

  398. CameronB Brodie says:

    From the above link.

    “On Monday, the Aberdeen University emeritus professor of bacteriology, had told The Press and Journal that the UK could eradicate the Covid-19 disease by Christmas if it pursued a policy of mass testing rather than waiting for a vaccine that might never arrive.

    Giving evidence to MSPs via video link on Tuesday, the expert said governments had made a “policy error” by moving away from testing and tracing too soon, and he suggested a failure to keep it out of care homes had meant the rate of infection in such facilities could now be as high as 10 times more than in the community.”

    Testing in the community is inadequate, so a precautionary approach to public policy suggest we stay in lock-down.

    I don’t take kindly to twats endangering my life. Make sure we never meet.

  399. bipod says:

    I don’t know your personally situation cameronB but may I suggest that you self isolate yourself if you think you are in such mortal danger.

    I don’t think there is much cautionary about wrecking the entire economy, and closing normal NHS operations. This lockdown is ruining lifes and its killing people, so the decision to continue it needs to be made in proportion to the actual danger of covid 19, which currently looks to be no more dangerous than a normal flu epidemic. Its quite selfish of you to insist that the lockdown must continue indefinitely. I’m sure that after your testing milestone has been reached there will be some other reason why the lockdown must continue, i.e. to prevent 2nd, 3rd, 4th peak or we need a vaccine first etc…

  400. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    The point I would make is that Emeritus (ie, retired) Professor Hugh Pennington, was a professor of bacteriology, not virology.

    I know, from working in Ninewells Hospital, that the microbiology department is split into two components; bacteriology and virology.

    A bacteriologist wouldn’t dare to tell a virologist how to do their job – and vice versa.

    Why is this pensioner wheeled out to give his opinion on NOT his field of expertise?

  401. Effijy says:

    Hugh Pennington is wheeled out every few weeks to put a Unionist
    Slant on anything medical although he isn’t qualified
    In the particular topic of medicine.

  402. Effijy says:

    I have a couple of predictions to make on the UK’s Hospital only Covid Death totals.

    In 5 days time the total UK Covid Hospital Death total will exceed Frances National Death Total.

    In 7 Days the Spanish National Covid death total.

    In 14 days the UK hospital only Covid death total will take Italy’s National total.

    The USA by merit of its vastly greater population, the idiot running their country and the
    Imbeciles who refuse to isolate will have more Covid Deaths than the UK.

    Belgium seems to have an unbeatably high Covid death rate in proportion to their population
    but Bojo’s Lying Circus will have a real go at taking that Number 1 spot over!

  403. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    High Pennington is an UberBritNat.

    He is mentioned in email addresses line of the now infamous Scotland in Union ‘Green Ink Gang’ email (see link to WoS article and photo of email):

    That alone should be enough to render his input into any news report or Government Enquiry as partisan (it doesn’t ’cos UKOK and all that got the BBC and MSM, whilst Indy Supporters would be vilified and hounded from such if not ignored altogether)!

  404. Effijy says:

    If it isn’t a technical issue, it appears that non of our Westminster sponsored Trolls
    Have posted for an overnight period of 8 hours?

    Have we turned them to face the many benefits of self determination for Scotland,
    Have they become victims of Tory Austerity or have they been pulled away to deliver
    Empty boxes marked PPE?

    Rue Britannia
    God save the royal has been
    The Empire strikes Blacks, Well Windward ones are least.

  405. bipod says:

    Oh dear, yet another blow for the lockdown down fanatics:

    Looks like dominic cummings, the UK governments non scientific political adviser, pushed SAGE to support the lockdown measures. If people who question the usefulness of the lockdown are just unionist stooges what does that make the people who stick to the UK govs line, which includes a surprising number of nationalists . Add what does that say about the SNP who have quite slavishly followed the UK govs one nation approach to this.

  406. jfngw says:

    The deaths attributed to the virus in Scotland (2272 NRS, daily total 1249 on Sunday) are 82% higher than the daily totals. If this is true for the rest of the UK, why wouldn’t it be, the total is 39600 for the UK, 35,100 in England using yesterdays 28th April totals.

  407. jfngw says:

    So many deaths, the BBC leads on concubines baby, Robert Peston expresses his man love for Boris, Laura Kuenssberg is believed to be watching ‘The Hand That Rocks The cradle’.

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