Wings Over Scotland

Aye right

I am genuinely unsure what point you want to make.

Nobody disagrees that cv19 is responsible for the deaths of many people. That might 10, 20 or 30 thousand, maybe even more over the next year. It’s a deadly virus that has spread around the world killing 100s of thousands.

The figures on hospital beds being used are falling, the curve has been flattened, for the time being. Are you arguing the lockdown should end or that it should be tighter?

@Sensibledave

I’ll tell what I’m arguing, the Westminster government are hiding the true death toll from the virus. Without this current lockdown numbers of deaths would still be increasing exponentially and not just 80% greater than the 5 year average.

Their plan is clear, “herd immunity” is so as to protect the economy rather than people. I hope you don’t believe for a moment that in 3 weeks’ time the lockdown will be lifted and it will be back to normal.

It won’t be, social distancing will still be the mantra and there will be no such thing as a “return to normal” at least before a vaccine is developed. That could take a year or more, that’s if they ever do develop one. That is needed in order to protect those most at risk and who are currently dying before their time.

You know who I mean, your mum and dad or granny and grandad.

Dave must have a very strong urge to maintain the British state, despite Scotland’s lack of access to constitutional justice. He’s been pedaling his right-wing populism for years now, always seeking to appear moderate and logical. This is how the New Right operates to gull the gullible.

Full text.

The Narcissism Spectrum Model: A Synthetic View of Narcissistic Personality
link to journals.sagepub.com

Famous15 says: at 4:48 pm

“Dan and coriander you must know that a virus is not a bacterial infection and that is why doctors do not must not prescribe antibiotics for flu and other virals.”

Ya, and of course I’m not suggesting it will cure covid or pneumonia outright. But the virus seems to have a propensity to cause pneumonia which is a bacterial infection. And as earlier posts appeared to elude to the possibility that uptake of oxygen into the bloodstream is an issue, not having pneumonia is probably a good thing.
Eating a load of decent nutrients and vitamins is going to be a good idea at the best of times to keep immune system performing as good as it can.

My old man passed after a heavy flu that developed into pneumonia which led to organ shutdown.
He was initially turned away from doctors twice and sent home from hospital once about a week before things got drastic and he was finally taken to hospital ICU and quickly fitted with an oxygen mask, then shifted later that day with blues and twos to a different hospital with a renal ward. Once there they cycled between IV antibiotics and dialysis in an attempt to balance between treating the infection and dealing with organ shutdown.
I was told this was done as the dialysis basically filters out the IV antibiotics hence the cycle between the two processes whilst monitoring various parameters.
As an engineer I found the technique very interesting. In a different life I’d often thought of nursing but was too far down the spanner path.
My dad was a smart cookie and he knew that when he briefly removed the oxygen mask he was wearing and watched the blood oxygen saturation levels drop quickly that it wasn’t a good sign.
We got a couple of days with him but when he finally managed to get up to try to go to the toilet a blood clot that had developed during the time he was immobile with his organs shutting down must have moved and caused him to collapse and that was it, lights out in a fleeting moment.

Dan @6:54

Thanks for sharing that. My own Da was taken by flu a few years ago. I suppose there is small comfort to be taken in Natures way, surviving humanity/making it to the line, and all that.

@ Ian Brotherhood – I agree with what the medic is saying – that this virus is not flu. It’s a new combination of virus dna and we have no immunity. Survival seems to depend on how efficient your immune system is.

The Chinese medics Handbook I linked to earlier says IIRC that some patients didn’t improve on ventilators. The medics ran their blood through a machine which oxygenated it instead. Can’t remember what they called that.

link to alnap.org

Just watched The Corbet Report and found ther are protests against ‘lockdown ‘ which isn’t being reported in MSM If it is being reported protesters being described as dangerous nutters.As Corbet says public compliance let’s Governm away with it . I’ve noticed that the only people asking questions appear to be on the right of politics while the left leaning more likely to comply. Your compliance makes prisoners of us all. When was the last time this happened? Only now .You all have a cheek calling anyone a Tory while you slavishly believe Tory propaganda indeed you think they’re not telling us the true horror when really the only horror is how compliant,supine you are.As you can tell I’m not here to make friends I want people to stop buying this shit.No one denies there’s a nasty strain of flu doing the rounds but you’re complete surrendered astounds me .I used read this site every day because I thought you lot were sensible.What you are is old and frightened There is only one way to get Independence and that’s not going to happen in this country. Your talking shop is going nowhere.

FFS

would sensibledave and Cammy PLEASE, just get a room, fellas.

@ Ian Brotherhood – I’ve looked in the Handbook and I was probably remembering something called Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenation
On page 49 – Part Ill. Daily Management and Monitoring of ECMO (Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenation)

On p 24 of the Handbook the Chinese medics mention using chloroquine phosphate – an antiviral drug. I’m not a doctor so have no idea if this is in any way similar to the hydroxychloroquine drug which one of Trump’s companies has an interest in.

The Guardian has a podcast on this;
link to theguardian.com

8pm

Imbeciles clapping

Sad

Sad

Sad

Sensibledav
I just recognise an illiberal bigot when I see one. 😉

CBB

I’m going to be honest – you’re starting to annoy me

ahundredthidiot
The idiot is simply giving me a platform to inform the debate with a scientific world view, which the British constitution can not resist. You either submit to British constitutionalism or you respect legal and social science. You can’t do both at the same time. 😉

Cammy..still no eveidence, Fraud, Liar (and a V boring one at that!)

Sensibledave
I’ll be eternity grateful for your fortitude in bring us your wisdom. Keep up the good work. TA. 😉

@Capella –

Just a quick one to acknowledge your comments and continuing efforts to shed some light on all this.

My medical pal has only commented that things seem to be shifting apace but how long it’ll take for a change in treatment/procedures to be reflected in governmental policy is another matter.

Dan @ 6.54.

The loss of a parent especially when they understand the physical reason for their demise is something that lives with their children for a lifetime.

This is a thoroughly rotten disease, but all diseases are. That hurts, especially when the departed goes before their time. However, the callous COVID 19 decision to sacrifice older people the expense of saving the economy is something that will burn into the memory of those who have lost loved ones.

Think of the good times, of which there will be many Dan, and think what your Dad would have wanted, and maybe, just maybe, you will one day look back with a smile to what you were lucky enough to have.

Had a closer look at Flight Radar and I may have been mistaken earlier about cranking back to normality.

A comfortable majority of flights are still cargo and other non specific flights.

Flights disappearing very quickly from the FR app shortly after take off hiding destination.

dakk

I have been monitoring FR24 on and off for days – and there has been some bizarre activity on there the likes of which I have never seen. PWK to russia…NA destinations, Loganair flights to Latvia, private jets out of east mids flying in circles over the N sea for hours…….it’s mental.

ahundredthidiot
I’m perhaps being a bit active right now as I’m trying to perform a number of tasks at the same time, as time is of the essence. By all means you are entitled to an opinion, but why not just mind yourself in future. I’ve been doing this for a while and I think I’ve managed to strike a balance that is acceptable to the Rev and the crew.

I’m not saying you talk shite all the time, you do make some good points. You appear happy to be prescriptive concerning matters that appear to be outwith you competence though. That needs some improvement work on your part, IMHO. 😉

Looks like Andrew Neil has had a bit too much of the Blue Nun, he thinks it’s ironic using this brand but it is actually about his class of wine I would say, lashing out on twitter because he made a fool of himself yesterday. Not sure why yesterday is so important to him, as far as I can remember he did this regularly on air.

Anyway at his age he was probably a Cliff Richard fan, I suspect he has a quiet passion for The Young Ones.

ahundredthidiot
Rattling off legislation is no proof of understanding. Care to share what your frame of reference is?

@ Ian Brotherhood – some interesting threads on twitter. This from an actuary. Actuaries make it their business to find out what might kill off their customers.

There’s been a bit of an unpleasant and inaccurate narrative over recent days that the majority of COVID-19 deaths were people who were “at death’s door” in any case. That they died “with” rather than “of” the disease. I want to address that…
The first thing that jumps out from the medical history section of Table 1 is that 93% of those critically ill with COVID-19 were “able to live without assistance in daily activities” prior to developing the disease. That typically suggests reasonable health. 3/8

link to twitter.com

and an update explaining why admissions to ICUs are younger and healthier than you might expect (consistent with what the consultant interviewed by Ch4? said):

link to twitter.com

It is only science deniers and the unaware who oppose the “precautionary principle”, which won’t last long in Brexitania.

Full text.

Precautionary Principles in Constitutional Law
link to academic.oup.com

Ayeright 6.33

… they are not hiding anything mate. They don’t know, and neither does anyone else, how many people have died because of Covid 19. You need to get your head round that.

If someone dies in hospital, if they were perhaps on a ventilator and if they tested positive for Covid 19 – then it is relatively straight forward.

If someone dies in the community (about 40,000 a month do in normal times) then they either die as a result of an accident or some variation of the term “ill health”. I believe the “accident rate” in the UK is about 5000 per month. That means around 35,000 die because of ill health.

If someone is one day, or one week, or one month, or two or 3 months, fronm their “natural” death … then, in many cases they are very unwell. We have learned that those that are very unwell are the vast majority of the victims of Covid 19. Yes it can take the young and the previously well, but the vast majority are elderly and with underlying conditions.

If someone with heart failure is in their last days of their “natural” life, and then are tested positive for CV 19 and, sadly, die – someone has to decide if they died of CV19. What do you think? Do you think they should be reported as a Covid 19 death or not?
Hopefully, that helps answer your question about the death toll.

Moving on, you wrote “Without this current lockdown numbers of deaths would still be increasing exponentially and not just 80% greater than the 5 year average.”

Thats right Ayeright. Thats why we are in lockdown. Are you objecting to, or supporting, the lockdown Ayeright?

You wrote “Their plan is clear, “herd immunity” is so as to protect the economy rather than people.

The government have been very clear about their plan. The plan was/is to “delay” the spread of the virus (implicit in the word “delay” is an acceptance that stopping the spread is not possible without people dying for other reasons (eg, because they do not have food, medicine, or money).

Whether you believe that was/is the right plan or not, it is fair to say that the plan, as described, is working. Hospitalisations are starting to fall (3% down today), then the numbers in ICU will start to fall, then the number of deaths will start to fall. The NHS, under enormous difficulty, has performed brilliantly. They havent been overwhelmed. We have enough beds in hospitals and we have enough ICU beds.

You then wrote “I hope you don’t believe for a moment that in 3 weeks’ time the lockdown will be lifted and it will be back to normal.”

I don’t Ayeright. I dont think I am aware of single person that thinks that. Whether it is in 3 weeks or some longer period, I am pretty sure it will be a gradual process involving different work groups, schools, ages or whatever.

You then wrote “It won’t be, social distancing will still be the mantra and there will be no such thing as a “return to normal” at least before a vaccine is developed. That could take a year or more, that’s if they ever do develop one. That is needed in order to protect those most at risk and who are currently dying before their time.”

We agree.

You then wrote “You know who I mean, your mum and dad or granny and grandad”

Sadly Ayeright Grand parents are long gone (heart failure (x2) and cancer (x2)). Mum and Dad died within 3 weeks of each other 10 in 2001. I am the late middle aged bloke that has had pneumonia caused by some mysterious infection about 6 years ago. So I am probably in the firing line for CV19 myself.

My personal view on my own position is that I am following the government guidelines on social distancing. I think though, I am resigned to the fact that I will be exposed at some point (if I havent already) and that I will take my chances … about 1 in a hundered? The alternative is for my life to effectively stop. Not work. Not see my grown up kids or the grand kids. Not go out. Not go on holiday. Not go down the pub or out for a meal. What would be the point?

I am shopping for an elderly relative with a respatory disorder that I do not believe could survive CV 19. She is in her eighties, at home, alone. Thank god we have trained her up on facetime, facebook and the rest. I dont think she will ever come again to be frank.

CBB

I rattled off no such legislation, I put, in one sentence how I could debate current legislation, in all its detail, and how it manifests itself in the operational front line, in terms of response.

Despite my weaknesses, one of my strengths is getting to the fucking point.

No. I am not prepared to share a frame of reference.

ahundredthidiot
I’d suggest you’re avoiding the point then.

@ sarah 12.06 am – thx for replying – i agree that we are in a precarious position. But the Holyrood elections haven’t been cancelled yet.

The problem IMO is campaigning. The British parties have all the media at their disposal and will use them. The advantage of the YES groups, and I include the SNP, is boots on the ground. We have the people who will knock on doors, put up street stalls and YES hubs, hold AUOB marches and town hall meetings.

The disparity between the membership and enthusiasm of the British parties an the Indy supporters is stark. If it wasn’t for the lying press an TV we would already have independence.

It will probably become clear in the next few months how dangerous this virus is and what we are going to do about it. We could talk about that on this blog even. But we can’t knock on doors and have large gatherings until it is safe to do so. Leaflets and PPBs aren’t going to be enough.

And – I don’t trust electronic or postal voting either!

Dog biscuit
Calm down.
I agree entirely with what you say.
No need for me to expand further.
You’ve covered all the points.

Twathater
You say you have ‘no other option but to do as you’re told’.
Are you on a tag or have you been so brainwashed that you can’t think for yourself?

twathater @9:45

‘I watched a programme…’

Jesus….what hope have we….

ALL the MSM is COMPLETELY CONTROLLED – wake the fuck up!

ahundredthidiot
Why be a prick?

Alan Mackintosh says:
“Cameron BB, from a discussion with a care home guy I know, all the covid deaths are from heart failure,(thats on the death certificate) which figures I guess, in that the body eventually gives up from lack of oxygen/fatigue.”

The thing is Alan, the way the body takes oxygen from the lungs and distributes it around our body is through the blood.

So, if you are short of oxygen your heart’s reaction is to beat faster, to get the oxygen to the necessary organs/muscles/brain, etc.

It could be that what is happening is that the OAP’s are short of oxygen because the respiratory function is impaired through this virus.
The heart is desperately trying to compensate and get the little oxygen that the person is able to breathe in, to the most vital organs (especially the brain).
Eventually, the person’s natural weakness through age, as well as the debilitating effects of having this virus leads to them having a heart attack.

This is important because it shows the effects of ‘comorbidity’
(a person having more than one condition) and we know how desperate the governments are to downplay just how many people are dying from this virus.

Hi peeps.

The National Health Service in Scotland is called “NHS Scotland”.
Their logo has NHS with a downward pointing bracket below it.
Underneath that bracket is the qualifier – it could be “Scotland”, “Tayside”, Grampian”, “Education” and so on.

Thus the correct abbreviation would be “NHSS”.
The slanting NHS logo is England’s NHS but they don’t feel the need to proclaim that it is England’s NHS.

Capella, Ian B,
re the chloroquine phosphate, I came across the following article some time ago which I then suggested to everyone I knew to start on the (gin) and Tonic.

From this article and the comments btl, it seems the drugs actions are to modify the blood pH( affects the virus) and also more importantly allows zinc to enter the virus which disrupts it. The drug acting as a zinc ionophore…

link to wattsupwiththat.com

link to asiatimes.com

Brian Doonthetoon
I’ll try to remember but please pick me up on it if I don’t. 😉

ahundredthidiot

“ALL the MSM is COMPLETELY CONTROLLED – wake the fuck up!”

Hardly a revelation, even less so to people who visit this site.

On C4 news tonight I watched a piece, which MAY not have contained many/any lies. But WAS 100% pure undiluted propaganda.

Condemning the Big Brother tactics of the Russian police, for checking the citizens who were out and about for their digital permits, issued only to those who were authorised to go to work.

Berating the Commie Bastard Government for; under-reporting of covid figures, not acting quickly enough, not doing enough testing, not supplying enough PPE and not having enough ventilators. They even displayed a still taken at a railway station concourse, which had red squares CGI’d around the faces of the commuters and alleged that the secret police were using facial-recognition software to weed out the heroic lockdown-busters.

Thank God we are living in the “Free” World.

Which does not alter the fact that without drastic measures the virus will lead to a breakdown of the health service, cause the unnecessary premature deaths of thousands, perhaps more than the undertaking industry can handle and subject many more to the agony and anguish of having to struggle for every breath for a week or two without proper medical attention.

It is not cowardice to wish to avoid that.

It is not stupidity to fear that it may happen.

Any more than it is bravery to tempt fate to strike you down.

Col Blimp

You are an idiot.

If you haven’t worked it out by now, you probably never will.

@CBB,

Mate I fully understand you ‘losing the rag’ but the best strategy, when faced with someone on here that gets you wound up, is to ignore them.

Otherwise, they have won.

Patrick Roden 😉

@capella. Is this what you mean…
Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation (ECMO) life-support machine.

CBB

Well, you’re certainly a more cleaverer man than me…patrick Roden agrees…….Jeez

link to theneweuropean.co.uk

Not sure if it qualifies as ‘yesterday’s news’.

Patrick Roden

I seem to remember you trying to spread fear amongst our elderly

You are the lowest of the Low

do please, fuck the fuck off, Scotland does not need your nonsense

‘PPE firm defends decision to ‘divert essential kit’ from Scotland to England during coronavirus epidemic’

The boss of a Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) distributor has said it was right to divert stocks from Scotland to English care homes amidst the Coronavirus epidemic.

Sam Gompels, managing director of Gompels HealthCare – a Wiltshire-based PPE distributor – said it was not Public Health England’s (PHE) fault that Scottish health authorities were too slow to establish distribution channels and that the health body had a right to demand the equipment remain within its borders.

He said: “We love Scottish care homes dearly and we always have done. We will do our best to supply them, but, there must be a Scottish scheme and the questions should really be asked of the Scottish authorities or public health Scotland, whatever the equivalent is.

“The fact is Public Health England got their finger out and organised these distribution channels and are getting pilloried for it because public health Scotland, or whatever the equivalent is, have not necessarily organised the same and that’s probably the nub of it.”

Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon addressed the claims, calling any disruption of supply to Scotland in favour of English care homes as “unconscionable and unacceptable.”

Scotland’s health secretary Jeane Freeman spoke with her Westminster counterpart Matt Hancock via conference call where the issue was ironed out.

She tweeted: “Pleased @MattHancock changed his plans to join a constructive discussion of 4 Health Ministers & grateful 4 assurance that neither NHS England nor PHE asked suppliers to divert PPE orders from Scotland. We go forward constructively as before & continue to check on these supplies.”

Hancock had planned to cancel his weekly meeting with the nations’ health ministers but reneged after the issue dominated the media cycle north of the border.

PHE referred the matter to the Department of Health which issued a statement stressing that it was implementing a “UK-wide” strategy for distributing PPE and denied companies had been instructed to prioritise any country.

A UK Department of Health spokesman said: “Our PPE strategy is UK-wide, making sure that frontline workers in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all have the PPE they need to stay protected while taking care of patients.

“Through this four-nation approach, we are working closely with the devolved administrations to co-ordinate the distribution of PPE evenly across the UK. To date, Scotland has received 11 million pieces of PPE from central UK stocks.

“We have not instructed any company to prioritise PPE for any one nation. Our UK-wide strategy will ensure equipment continues to be evenly distributed across the entire nation.”

This comes as the CEO of Scottish Care – one of Scotland’s largest independent social care providers – Donald Macaskill complained of a “massive dry-up” of PPE arriving in Scotland because companies were prioritising English facilities.

Public Health England sent Gompels Healthcare a shipment of stockpiled PPE which it specified were solely for English care homes. Gompels apologised to its customer base on its website saying restrictions on non-English companies were part of a criteria set out by PHE. A lot of the equipment were said to be out-of-date but recently retested and verified as safe.’

From above article posted by Robert Knight.

It’s not yesterday’s news, it shows the lie of some commenter’s on here insisting that this was not an issue, when it clearly was, the ‘publicity’ it received was the only reason that they (Public Health England’ changed it’s tune as it had clearly instructed the likes of Gompel to prioritise the PPE to England only care homes.

Hifud is a little snide prick who thinks the rest of us are ‘making shit up’ when it’s clear it was never ‘imaginary’ nor ‘devisive’ and if it was it was because English companies went along with PHE’s policy of only allowing English based companies to procure the fucking PPE.

ahundredthidiot
You haven’t a clue and we are facing a public crises. Caw canny.

Sustainability and precaution: Part 2 How precautionary should we be?
link to vam.ac.uk

CBB – so, let’s just nail this down, who is dealing with the crisis – you or me?

@ ROB 11.51 – yes. I was quoting from the Chinese Handbook for Covid-19. Which I linked to above. They also mention using Chloroquine phosphate, an anti-malarial drug. See Alan Macintosh’s links to articles on this above. Or go off to the supermarket for some gin and tonic. For medicinal purposes.

ahundredthidiot
You don’t appear to appreciate the nature, value, or necessity of a precautionary approach to policy and government, yet you claim those who support it are fascists. A skeptical approach to life is healthy, but it needs to be grounded in reality.

The precautionary principle: Public health, protection of children and sustainability
link to who.int

I know this….my posts are being managed

ahundredthidiot

Who Knows, I used to be fairly impervious to disease but in recent years A heart attack and septicemia got the better of me maybe it will be third time lucky for The Grim Reaper.

The hundredthidiot is far from wrong. Time is very short.

off-guardian.org/2020/04/16/covid19-criminalising-pathologising-dissent/

Those screaming that they want the lock down lifted better go and find a padded cell soon as they will need it. China has now jumped from no deaths yesterday to 1290 today.

I would ask people who think lockdown should be lifted to explain what their understanding of why the lockdown is there in the first place.

The biggest indictment of the lockdown I have, is the lockdown being undermined by the low volume of testing. Lockdown is intended to slow down the spread of unseen contagion, and allow is to flush it from cover to know where it is and where it is not, but without testing, that opportunity is lost, and furthermore, you don’t know when you’re safe to lift the lockdown.

But that doesn’t make lockdown fail, because even without testing, some people with the virus will pass through it’s incubation, the illness itself, (or not if they have no effects), and be passed out the far end beyond the point of being contagious, and won’t have past their infection on to anybody because the were isolated. Lockdown itself can thus save lives directly.

But sloppy lockdown, where people are allowed to mingle, allows the virus to find a new host, and the life cycle of infection, contagion, incubation, illness, etc lives to fight another day, and you have created the fresh need for a three week extension to your lockdown.

Thus one person if they have the virus on them, and without testing, how can anybody know, but that one person can disrupt the lives of everybody. When the extent of contagion and risk is still undetermined, and there’s no testing going on, does it not seem selfish for one person’s impatience to disrupt everybody else around them?

I totally get the UK’s frustration with lockdown, but if we’d been quicker off the mark and much more rigorous enforcing it, shut our border, not allowing tourists up for Easter, stop royalty visiting and bring known infections to Scotland, and shut our airports to all but essential flights, then we’d have contained the spread and neutralised it.

Yes, the risk remains. A fire can rekindle from a Single spark. But if there is no infection apparent in an area, you can cautiously ease lockdown in that safe zone provided you have a cordon to keep new infection out of that safe zone. There is no point making a safe zone if you don’t install protection to keep it a safe zone.

These are the controls you saw in China and Korea; people tested everywhere, check points monitoring people for symptoms… Public washing and decontamination of streets… Have you seen ANY of that in the UK? No. Instead, someone with the disease can bring his entourage from one end of the UK to the other with total impunity… fucking up the lockdown for everybody.

@ K1

Well said, even now they can’t their story straight, contradictory stories all over the place.

Blood tests to fly now, ready for the dystopian hell people?

WAKE THE F*CK UP!

Golfnut says:
17 April, 2020 at 8:05 am
@ K1

Well said, even now they can’t their story straight, contradictory stories all over the place…

Aye, but really, there’s just one story.

The story of England keeping PPE for England alone is the same story of Scotland’s oil not benefitting Scotland. It’s the story of Rosyth’s successful tender for submarine refits being given to Devonport. It’s the same story of access to the ‘national’ grid.

It’s the same story that has blighted Scotland for as long as there’s been a Scotland. We have an insatiable parasite latched on to us, who puts a much lower value on a Scottish life as it does upon an English life, and gloats as it revels in a grotesque “Union” which is merely a fraud, bankrolled by purloined Scottish wealth. Scotland is expendable. It’s “no great mischief” if one of us falls.

Fkg SNP. What the fk are we waiting on the SNP for? What are they gonna do? Deafen us with silence and let the Weirdy Beardies set the agenda, as Nicola and her pals surreptitiously dismantle all that the SNP once stood for.

Enough. Get this new Indy Party rolling, and let us taking a battering ram Constitutional mandate all the way to the UN and Council of Europe. Yes, hold it in check while COV19 rages, but ONLY while COV19 rages.

@twathater at 2:12 am

Meet Pete.

link to twitter.com

@Effijy,

`The central Chinese city of Wuhan has raised its number of COVID-19 fatalities by 1,290.

State media says the undercount had been due to the insufficient admission capabilities at overwhelmed medical facilities at the peak of the outbreak.`

@The complete idiot said:

I seem to remember you trying to spread fear amongst our elderly

And the claims that I made re that a lot of elderly were catching the virus because untested people were being sent to convalesce, has since been proven to be correct.

BTW, if you care to look at my replies to CBB I wasn’t backing him up against you, I was commenting to him about sensibledave.

I won’t ask you to apologize as you don’t come across as someone who is man enough!

The Britnats are truly delusional, despite the fact the death rate from the virus in Scotland, using any figure available, is half England’s, they deny it. They claim it’s population size, easily disproved, then population density another delusion as Scotland’s central belt has a high density and many places with higher density than any city in England have lover death rates, finally they just lie and say it is the same percentage.

They want it to remain silent, it just doesn’t fit the Scotland is shit narrative. When these facts are represented you get Scottish journalists tweeting telling elected representatives to ‘zip it’, that’s our unbiased press in Scotland for you.

Not that I believe Scotland has done well in this, it has been a disaster also, tracking WM policy has put Scotland in the top ten of deaths/million, but still comparatively better than England.

jfngw 9:55 am

You wrote “The Britnats are truly delusional, despite the fact the death rate from the virus in Scotland, using any figure available, is half England’s, they deny it.”

You are just making stuff up again! Where has anyone denied it? Just for once, rather than shouting unsubstantiated piffle (lies!), how about you produce, you know, some actual evidence? You are like some vindictive little schoolgirl making up lies about their “friend”.

Good morning ghetto dwelllers. Who is for the left and who is for the right?There is a morbid fascination over death on here perhaps because so many are in the winter of their lives Fear not death can only take us once .Let is pray Our Father. etc

jfngw

I think I made it clear that the numbers are not directly comparable. I note, using all the insight and intelligence you can bring to bear, the only comment you have to make on all those numbers involving millions upon millions of people in Europe and the USA is, effectively … “the British are liars”. Doh!

jfngw 10:09 am

So again, you wrote “You wrote “The Britnats are truly delusional, despite the fact the death rate from the virus in Scotland, using any figure available, is half England’s, THEY deny it.”

You then post, as evidence of “THEY” some private citizen nut jobs somewhere.

I apologise jfngw, when you said “they”, I assumed you meant the government, or the press, or a professor, or something .. when by “they” – you actually meant some bloke down the pub.

Once again, Apologies.

Well, already the neoliberals at Westminster are looking for ways to recoup monies spent on battling Covid-19. The Social Market Foundation, (no doubt from Tufton street) is run by a Tory/Labour(Red Tory) and Lib/Dem think tank.

The first order of business for them is to recover money from the poor, and for them to draw up a proposal on how to remove the triple lock on state pensions. You can virtually hear the wheels of capitalism grind back into motion on ways to make the poorest in our society carry the heaviest burdens for the cost of this virus.

The English government are desperately playing for time with their covid death reporting.

So obvious they are trying to get past peak death rates before they give the true figures including non hospital death rates.

They shall not be pitied as the tragic Red Zone that they are.

Even the Jeremy Hunt and the Health Select Committee are embarrassed.

Mike Cassidy and Breeks,
I think it is hypocritical of you both to ridicule people who don’t believe that this lockdown is the best option we have.
Remember that you are both advocates of this lockdown so you should be willing and able to accept some of the responsibility for the ensuing deaths whether they are Covid 19 related or not, the same way we are all responsible for our decisions not to have a lockdown every winter flu season.
So really, I would like to know why you think we should disregard flu victims but not Covid 19 victims?
Is it just a question of numbers?
If so, at what number of deaths do we change from no lockdown to dispensing with civil liberties?
Is it a question of the amount of resources to cope with the virus?
If so, if given those extra resources, would more deaths be acceptable?

Why do you and others get to pour water on the idea that there are other options that may be better.

Mike Cassidy, I’ve read the links you posted as I am more than willing to take on as much information as possible, did you read the last link that I posted?
If so, what are your thoughts on it?

Here it is again
link to rt.com

Now you don’t have to believe the numbers but I think it shows that you need to accept decisions don’t exist in isolation. There are consequences for those decisions.

When you fuck about with one side of an equation you would have to be wilfully brain dead to think it doesn’t affect the other side.

I think it is extremely unhelpful that you both feel it necessary to pontificate from your high horse and piss on others when you have shown you are not eager to countenance the concerns of others who don’t agree with you.

I’m not advocating that more people should die, I’m advocating that less people should die in the long run. This is a marathon not a sprint.

So just to be clear, I don’t know what the best option is but neither do you. We will all be gifted with 2020 hindsight when this virus is no longer a threat but using this model, we will have one almighty fucking mess to clean up that will be of our own making.

Meanwhile we have the very mediocre tv presenter, though I can’t think of anything notable that he’s done, Ben Fogle, attempt to capitalise on the very goodwill of the public towards the NHS and the fabulous job its staff are doing by risking their lives to save others on a daily basis.

Fogle wants you and I to go outside on the Queens birthday, April 21st and sing from the bottom of our hearts happy birthday to her, bringing her great cheer.

Needless to say the insignificant and forgettable tv presenter, has been so far, rightly, and widely mocked and derided on social media.

Of course there will be the monarchists and acolytes of the greatest state sponger in UK history, who’ll doff their caps, kowtow, and applaud with much gusto, the Queen now hidden away in her ivory tower, without need or want of anything.

Aye be fine if the english royal family dip into their vast wealth that they’ve accumulated over the centuries from the peasants, dip in maybe 3 Trillion and bale out england, maybe the other countries in the so called union might get some scraps, we’re all in it together as they said.

Thanks for the China stats update Scot.

Encouraging to see China admitting to errors and amending them.

Stupid Dave used outdated figures while defending his
Indefensible Empire.

Even with the major adjustment to China’s Death Stats
Their figures plus Iran plus Great Germany’s, all with greater
Populations and with more densely packed cities than the UK
Have a combined death total lower than Bungling Bojoland.

I think the first German death was a day after the UK’s but as they
Haven’t been chopping away health facilities, ignoring the trends from
Countries like Italy and not investing in testing equipment England is killing
4 people for every death in Great Germany.

The above is shocking on its own but add in the Tory cover up of all related
Deaths outside of hospitals and there should be an international trial here
For crimes against humanity.

Dippy Dave and Private Pete can bake them a cake with a file in the NAFFI.

@Pete

The evidence is in the post but you being one of the Britnats I will just put you in the ‘they just lie’ camp.

Republicofscotland

We should think very carefully about that.

Maybe we could Empress Elizabeth aka “Purrin’ Betty” a
purr-fect birthday.

Could someone please get this in front of the SNP leadership, as they have a legal duty to protect my human rights but don’t appeart to have a fucking clue about the law.

Reality and Public Policy
link to nationalaffairs.com

@sensibledave

Well all governments do lie if they can get away with it, journalists don’t technically lie but present the evidence in a fashion that often they may as well lie. Here is the ‘zip it’ from a journo, dressed up as a opinion, although I suspect this post may disappear soon.

link to twitter.com
,
And as for academics, I think we have found many in the past that will adhere to a principle for selfish motives. I worked in a university for six years some time ago, it was disappointing to find that some people with PHD’s were just as childish and spiteful as everyone else.

I try not to refer to people as ‘nutters’, delusional is good enough for me, we all see things through our own prism.

@Breastplate, 11.03

Good post.

As more research studies come out about the low mortality coronavirus (link to rt.com ), about transmission (link to today.rtl.lu), the question arises why house arrest for the whole of society and the removal of civil rights? Why have standard public health procedures (test, track, isolate) not been implemented? Why ask Imperial College to model the epidemic on incomplete data?

The imperial college Bill Gates collection. link to youtube.com

Just heard Hancock say 11m PPE has been sent to Scotland is there any way we can confirm this.??

@ Colonel Blimp IV – I was thinking of simmering some Peruvian bark in salt water but G & T would be good too. Probably there isn’t a drop of tonic left in the supermarkets by now and every tree in Peru has been stripped of its bark.

I appreciate we need to understand covid better, but the first priority is its’ containment. An early let-up will just mean this problem is with us for much longer than it need be. That will cause more harm than continuing the lock-down until safe to lift it. Public health comes first, then human rights, then the economy.

Safeguarding human rights
in times of economic crisis
link to rm.coe.int

CBB,
We left the containment stage a month ago, we are in the delay phase.

Breastplate
It would appear the Tories have gone “full retard” then.

If you keep hot housing the population the problem will be extended and more may be dying as a result. A wee message to SNP politicians you lot adopted draconian powers at too enthusiastically for my liking.I will be wiping my arse with my polling card should we ever be allowed to vote again you have destroyed what little democracy we had. Tartan Tories right enough it seems The worst of the seat warmers? Take your pick. Alec Salmond King of Scotland

The purpose of the Union is to benefit England.

It always has been, it always will be.