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The Great Reverse

Posted on August 02, 2020 by

So we guess this is an answer to our question:

But there are many more questions.

The size and volume of the public backlash to this week’s disgraceful goings-on in the SNP National Executive Committee must have frightened the party a very great deal, because there’s been quite a stampede of senior figures – even including loyal cabinet ministers – taking the extraordinary, almost unheard-of step of publicly criticising NEC decisions and disassociating themselves from the party’s ruling group.

(The only Parliamentarian we saw who was prepared to back the decisions was dear old Pete Wishart, who’s now been left swinging embarrassingly in the wind.)

So far the only decision to have been officially cancelled is the ban on sitting MSP James Dornan seeking nomination in Glasgow Cathcart, announced by SNP National Secretary Angus MacLeod in a message he subsequently and rather oddly deleted.

But how on Earth did the National Executive Committee of the SNP ever come to make a decision that was “unconstitutional” in the first place? How can the NEC, of all entities, not know what the rules are? It’s literally their entire job to know what’s in the SNP constitution and ensure it’s adhered to. Can they ALL be totally incompetent?

It was well known and reported in the press weeks ago that Dornan WASN’T standing down, and the party rules are very clear that all-women shortlists can only be imposed “where the incumbent SNP MSP is standing down”, so how could such a basic “error” be made and why did NOBODY in the room – the NEC has over 40 members – seemingly make the point and rule the motion out of order before it could be voted on?

Elspeth Kerr, who until recently was an SNP councillor in Glasgow and now sits as an independent – one of four formerly SNP councillors in the city to have done so, amid claims of “bullying and corruption” – tweeted a claim that the move had been proposed by the party’s National Women’s Convener, Rhiannon Spear, who is widely believed to have been seeking the Cathcart nomination for herself.

Spear is one of the few people definitely known to have been present at the meeting, because she tweeted about it.

So we have a situation whereby the SNP NEC, meeting covertly and with nobody allowed to know who was present or who voted, apparently passed an unconstitutional motion which was to the direct personal benefit of the person who proposed it, and peremptorily introduced a new rule which should have been put publicly to members at conference but wasn’t, in order to effectively block one of the party’s most effective and popular representatives – who is regularly attacked by that same NEC member and those in her faction – from seeking a seat at Holyrood.

(Dornan, who like Joanna Cherry has handled the matter with great dignity, issued a subtly barbed comment in a response to one tweeter who said that the SNP “used to be all our party”. Rather than say “it still is”, Dornan pointedly noted “it will be again”.)

The opinion of the grassroots membership, meanwhile, seems to be clear-cut:

It seems fair to posit that this mess isn’t going away any time soon. But now that even Angus Robertson has said the blocking of Joanna Cherry was wrong, we hope that that decision too will be voided and that the damage being done to the SNP and the wider Yes movement by those responsible will be nipped in the bud before it’s too late.

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    1. 02 08 20 10:56

      The Great Reverse | speymouth

    294 to “The Great Reverse”

    1. schrodingers cat says:

      I think the main lesson in this is don’t state your intention to stand down as an MSP unless you’re absolutely certain.

      it is snp policy that all seats being left vacant by retiring msps will be women only short lists (not something i particularly support but it is party policy)

      i doubt that the branch in cathcart will thank James Dornan or the NEC for dragging them into the spotlight.

      we will see. it will be they who decide who the candidate is

    2. McHaggis69 says:

      Its patently obvious now that if Scotland does not get its independence soon (and to be absolutely clear the only realistic vehicle for that remains at this juncture, the SNP), then the SNP look set to begin a long and slow death spiral, no different in intensity to that which has consumed Labour in Scotland.

      Same reasons, Same outcome.

    3. McHaggis69 says:

      yeah, Cat – blame Dornan – its all his fault.

      You certainly got in quick with your first (and usual) fishing expedition.

    4. Sharny Dubs says:

      Funny how most are at pains to mention they are not a member of the NEC haha.

      Nothing to do with me guv, it was a big boy did it and run away!

    5. jfngw says:

      The trouble with political parties in power is the same as managers in any company, if they are there too long they need to start changing things they introduced. Then you start getting nonsense decisions/legislation and peripheral issues becoming the dominant feature to avoid overturning their previous decisions.

      That is why we need independence soon because technically the SNP fhas been in power too long and we need a range of parties with Scotland’s priorities at heart. Presently there is only the SNP that has Scotland’s interests as its main objective, I know some will dispute that but which other party at Holyrood just now would you trust with Scotland’s future.

    6. schrodingers cat says:

      @mchaggis

      i dont know whose fault it is, thats why i blamed both nec and him for creating this stooshie

      hell mend them both

    7. Peter Campbell says:

      The whole affair is very concerning but hopefully a sign that the SNP are trying to put things right and also that maybe the rank and file do have power when it matters. It may be naive but I really have to believe that.

    8. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I think the main lesson in this is don’t state your intention to stand down as an MSP unless you’re absolutely certain.”

      Fucking hell, what a shit take. You’re stretching my patience.

    9. Craig says:

      If only Nicola actually takes action and remove those in the NEC by saying that they have abused the position of trust and power for their own ends.

      If she fails to do so, not only will she severely damage her own reputation, the SNP will be seen as a group of fascists that only care about the grips of power as seen by the recent unconstitutional attempts in ensuring candidates will be excluded in favour for those that share the same viewpoints.

      Rhiannon Spear is becoming the biggest enemy to Scotland’s independence with her conduct, she is very dangerous and Nicola Sturgeon needs to stop her in her tracks before everything that the SNP stood for since it’s creation will be completely destroyed.

    10. Cath says:

      I had a lot of respect for Robertson – and still want to. He speaks fluent German and his internationalist credentials will be a huge asset to a newly or about to be independent country. But I’m gobsmacked such a seemingly clever politician can’t see the optics of what’s going on with this clique. I’m gobsmacked more generally how many in the SNP have been willing to allow misogyny and the silencing and ignoring of women’s voices to become commonplace and accepted. And turned a blind eye to a clear campaign of harassment against certain members, including elected ones.

    11. Ian McCubbin says:

      Have to agree with McHaggis.
      I for one am putting my energy back into YES Movement and not SNP. I won’t canvass for MPs or MSPs now.
      They need to refocus on prime objective and old labour nimby rule making for minorities and wee favoured groups.
      We are all people in a trodden down country politically. Let’s sort that then the other issues take care of themselves.

    12. Ian McCubbin says:

      Oops and Not old Labour rule making????

    13. winifred mccartney says:

      If the snp is to keep any shred of credibility Joanna Cherry must be allowed to stand in Edinburgh Central – Angus Robertson could stand against Douglas Ross and make it a real contest.

      I had actually drafted my resignation but saw Mike Russell’s tweet and hesitated – this must be sorted out and quickly. It is nonsense to see a light-weight like Ross able to be in WM and stand for Holyrood and the heavy-weight like Joanna having to back down – what fools the snp are looking and we are all watching with our membership card in our hands ready to tear it up along with our subscription DD’s.

    14. Republicofscotland says:

      “So we have a situation whereby the SNP NEC, meeting covertly and with nobody allowed to know who was present or who voted, apparently passed an unconstitutional motion which was to the direct personal benefit of the person who proposed it, and also introduced a new rule which should have been put publicly to members at conference but wasn’t, in order to effectively block one of the party’s most effective and popular representatives – who is regularly attacked by that same NEC member and those in her faction – from seeking a seat at Holyrood.”

      Your above paragraph Stu says it all really, as to whats become of the SNP, Spears needs to be fired immediately, and the disgraceful decision to hinder Cherry’s attempt to become a MSP must also be reversed.

      The upside of this, if there is indeed an upside, is that we the public do have the power to change the minds of SNP ministers and the heirarchy, if enough of us complain about their misdeeds and machinations, we put them in office and we can remove them from it, if we don’t like their course of action we must always remember that.

      To the anonymous SNP NEC sort yourselves out and retract the unfair barriers against Joanna Cherry, or we the public who vote for you will turn against you at next years elections.

    15. McHaggis69 says:

      Hi Cat,

      in the past, I’ve trolled enough boards myself to give you just 1 out of 10 on the trollometer for that pish poor response.

      I was good at it. You’re just too fucking obvious mate.

    16. Breeks says:

      Remember the line attributed to Admiral Yamamoto from the Tora! Tora! Tora! movie, as the Japanese Fleet withdrew after attacking Pearl harbour?

      “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve”.

      (By all accounts he never actually said it, but it’s a terrific line all the same…)

      I rather suspect that’s exactly what the SNP’s NEC has just done with the Indy movement proper. They’ve woken it up, and it is mightily unhappy. Full truth be known, I rather hope that’s what it’s done, and this very unpopular and seemingly interminable ‘scenic route’ to Independence is about to be rudely truncated.

      These entryist inspired shenanigans have gone on far too long. Tolerance has been pushed too far, and patience has finally run out… I hope.

    17. jfngw says:

      Talking of arseholes, why didn’t either of these two take on the arseholery that is ACH in Western Edinburgh. That is one dimwit I would have have had great satisfaction seeing removed.

    18. schrodingers cat says:

      @cath
      I’m gobsmacked more generally how many in the SNP have been willing to allow misogyny and the silencing and ignoring of women’s voices to become commonplace and accepted.
      ————-

      James Dornan apart, it is snp policy to replace all retiring snp constituency msp’s with womens only lists?

      not something i really favour, branches should be allowed to select whoever they believe is the best candidate, regardless of whether they are male or female.

      i’m not sure how the snp is ignoring women here? i would have thought the reverse?

    19. Johnny says:

      No, Cat, that’s not the main lesson.

      The main lesson, for the rest of us, is watch these people closely so they don’t try to pull such corrupt shenanigans again.

      If this backlash has in fact changed behaviours in the SNP, it’s actually quite a good advert for the concept of independence – because one of the main reasons for it was always that the politicians would be close enough for Scots to give them a kick up the arse when required.

    20. Astonished says:

      They must be getting the message. Sadly far too many members had to resign first.

      I demand that the national secretary Angus MacLeod resigns immediately (and hopefully leaves the party ) because only then will we be able to heal the woke wounds.

      After he leaves all those who resigned should be begged to return and suffer no loss to their membership.

      And as for the woke ………

    21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I’m gobsmacked such a seemingly clever politician can’t see the optics of what’s going on with this clique”

      Well, he clearly can, hence his (albeit belated) tweet.

    22. Paul Snowdon says:

      I guess that the most pertinent question to come out of this shitfest is, why are NEC meetings attended in secret?

    23. schrodingers cat says:

      @jfngw

      agreed, hamilton has a very slim majority and if the indy list party takes off, he wouldnt get a list seat either.

      this is too big an op to miss

    24. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ello peeps , sorry for this O/T so soon, but think its important to be brought to everybodies attention, funny how we were all told that the Tories had scrapped GRA reform, the good news is that they should not be able to weaponise it against us if the current bunch of wokes get their way.
      http://archive.vn/uFG7l

      Apologies for making you read the Daily Hail, but the could news is that there is an obvious split in the Tory Party ?

    25. Tony Hay says:

      A total clusterfuck,heads must roll

    26. Davie Oga says:

      Craig says:
      2 August, 2020 at 10:45 am
      If only Nicola actually takes action and remove those in the NEC by saying that they have abused the position of trust and power for their own ends.

      The FM is part of the NEC. They are not separate entities. Same with Angus MacLeod.

      Maybe the minutes still exist. The deletion and shredding convenor will be overburdened already in preparation for the Salmond inquiry.

    27. schrodingers cat says:

      Johnny says:
      No, Cat, that’s not the main lesson.

      The main lesson, for the rest of us, is watch these people closely so they don’t try to pull such corrupt shenanigans again.

      ——————

      you mistake my intentions, I hold no candle for the folk in NEC, I’ve never heard of most of them, i doubt many snp members and voters could name them. I doubt anyone would miss them either.

      if this goat rodeo leads to them getting cleared out.. good
      what’s the problem?

    28. Walter Jones says:

      Rev

      For every word you post, the Cat will post a word to counter it.

      Him and Bungo are on special ops’ to throw hand grenades into EVERY thread you post that questions the competency of the Sturgeon reign.

      They are under direct orders from the SNP NEC, which is this lawless beast that mirrors itself in the mould of the Tory Psychopath, Dominic Cummings.

    29. Andrew F says:

      Given the Woke angle – repost of comment I put at end of previous thread:

      It seems the “Wokes” are part of a larger plan.

      The “Davos” folks from the World Economic Forum launched their “Great Reset” in July. It’s a plan to remake the world on the back of COVID. Last October they ran a conference in New York called Event 201 to workshop what they might do if their was a coronovirus pandemic one day. So they were definitely prepared.

      Part of The Great Reset is called “Strategic Intelligence”, and part of that is “LGBQTI+ Inclusion”.

      On their website (weforum.org) they have a lot of pages about it. One is titled: “Great Reset: Why LGBT+ inclusion is the secret to cities’ post-pandemic success”.

      Some snippets:
      ————————

      • Economies that are more inclusive are better placed to recover from the shocks of the COVID-19 pandemic.

      • A strong positive correlation exists between LGBT+ inclusion and economic resilience.

      • In particular, cities that embrace diversity may reap an ‘inclusion dividend’ as they begin to rebuild their economies.

      As the world continues to grapple with the unprecedented global health crisis of COVID-19, the scale of the related global economic crisis is becoming increasingly clear. We are facing the sharpest economic contraction since the Great Depression in the 1930s, according to the United Nations – threatening to roll back decades of progress in the fight against poverty.

      At the same time as taking emergency measures to minimize the immediate economic impacts of the pandemic, governments around the world are looking to position themselves for recovery. A new analysis of economic resilience offers a potential clue to which economies may be able to recover faster: LGBT+ inclusion is correlated to the resilience of a country’s economy.

      The analysis by Open For Business, a coalition of companies advancing LGBT+ equality, shows a strong positive correlation (0.67) between how resilient an economy is and how accepting it is of LGBT+ people (see the chart below). This is a significant finding: a one-point increase in social acceptance suggests a three-point increase in that economy’s economic resilience index, even when controlling for GDP per capita. Could LGBT+ inclusion be a secret ingredient for economic resilience?

      The answer may lie in the world’s cities.

      Cities have been at the frontline of the pandemic – and they may hold the key to global economic recovery. The connection between economic resilience and social inclusion is particularly clear in urban areas. There is a growing body of evidence that LGBT+ inclusive cities have stronger “innovation ecosystems”, higher levels of entrepreneurialism, and they are better able to attract talent and provide a high quality of life – making them well placed for economic recovery.

      The connection between resilience and inclusion is widely accepted by policy-makers. The World Bank describes “inclusive communities” as a key dimension of sustainable, resilient cities. The OECD identifies “inclusive society” as a driver of resilience in a city. The IMF contends that an economy is “more fragile and less resilient when it is not inclusive”. A report by UN Habitat finds that inclusion is required for a “successful urban resilience agenda”.

      Now is the time to be embracing LGBT+ communities, not stigmatizing them. Creating inclusive societies isn’t just the right thing to do; as the evidence shows, it’s an important part of an economic strategy focused on resilience and recovery.
      ————————-

      So the Wokes have some very powerful friends with very ambitious ideas for the world, which might help explain things a bit.

    30. jfngw says:

      @s cat

      In my opinion I believe Angus Robertson would have been a better fit for West Edinburgh than Joanna Cherry. It’s a bit of hubris they both want the Central Edinburgh seat, it looks like a prestige thing.

    31. Breeks says:

      Cath says:
      2 August, 2020 at 10:45 am
      I had a lot of respect for Robertson – and still want to. He speaks fluent German…

      Aye Cath… I felt the same way too. I remember seeing Angus speaking on German TV during the YES campaign and I thought it was absolutely brilliant and stood out as vibrant testimony of Scotland’s pro European credentials.

      These days however, I can’t decide whether back in 2014 I was seeing things in Angus Robertson which weren’t there, or whether the good sense and political acumen he actually had in 2014 has since deserted him.

      A good man undone by his proximity to the wrong people? I don’t know. I just can’t decide.

    32. Astonished says:

      And Humza Yousaf’s idiotic ‘thought police’ bill should go to.

      Mr Yousaf is a privately educated gent who appears to have never worked outside politics. He is the son of immigrants ( which I thought admirable) but they must have been very well-heeled immigrants. Undoubtedly he is Scottish, but I assume he has never woken to a lack of croissants.

      I don’t campaign, work and vote SNP just so they can become the newish same old labour party.

      He should apologise for his stupid bill and start to get rid of the woke.

    33. schrodingers cat says:

      @jfwfg

      agreed, i cant imagine why though, ruth is offski down to the hol.

      i would have thought ACH was the bigger scalp?

    34. Clapper57 says:

      Well it would seem that I and other members picked a good time to cancel our SNP membership….timing is everything….if you want your voice to be heard….especially when tis obvious there are some within the SNP who are applying the steamroll method in forcing through flawed procedures and thus trying to flatten out those who they ‘disagree’ with…..or rather those who ‘disagree’ with them……

    35. Asklair says:

      Well well well, is it not time to give your vote to an indy candidate for the list/regional seat. Like or dislike WOS, shooting the messenger will let New SNP do what New Labour did. Going to watch WOS even more closely and with a lot more respect.

    36. Andy Ellis says:

      It’s pretty difficult to say Robertson had any real link with Edinburgh, still less Edinburgh Central. Cherry however does have real links here, and represents what was a marginal Edinburgh constituency. Given her recent profile, she’d have been the natural choice. Robertson should have looked elsewhere. I certainly won’t vote for him given his presumptuousness.

      Marco Biagi is a better fit (though interesting it only occurred to him to stand last night!) but given he appears to be fully on board with the woke agenda, he wouldn’t get my vote either.

      I hope the party sees sense and reverses the NEC’s “Cherrymandering”, but I have my doubts. The members of Edinburgh Central SNP branch, and the voters of the constituency as a whole, deserve better!

    37. Kenny says:

      I think it is a lot easier to just realise that the SNP is Scottish Labour all over again. Many people took decades to realise this.

      It is like getting rid of a useless partner. You genuinely feel emotions and (mainly) want to save your own face. Years later, yu think: what did I ever see in that useless lump?!?

      The SNP, in any case, even if it reforms itself, will have to live with the knowledge that it told deliberate lies to the population over Brexit and “indyref next year… next parliament… honest!” — before you even get into the Alex Salmond facts.

      The SNP has sullied its card. But so what? It is not the independence movement. Why this attachment to a political party which never talks about independence in a meaningful way and which has hardly any big hitters or interesting advocated for independence (who all operate outside the SNP)?

      There is too much talk about the SNP (negative) and not about independence (positive). If you are in a relationship which makes you unhappy, angry, depressed, negative… then you just need to cut your losses and get into one which is positive. Or just enjoy the lovely feeling of autonomy, being on your own.

      I can well imagine the sort of reaction May would have got had she told Cherry “now is not the time”! Can you imagine if it were Craig Murray and not Pete Wishart speaking in the Commons! But there is a danger too much of relying on individuals (even Salmond, Cherry)… or on politicians and parties in general.

      In a way, it is quite refreshing that, thankfully, our eyes have been opened to the SNP. Can you imagine if we still believed the message which Angus Robertson was plugging even yesterday: “vote for Robertson to insure a pro-indy majority in the next Holyrood”…

    38. kapelmeister says:

      Do the initials NEC stand for Nicola’s Eerie Cabal?

    39. Republicofscotland says:

      O/T.

      Why hasn’t the Tory MP arrested on suspicion if rape not been named, the British nationalist media couldn’t wait to name Alex Salmond, and the now disapproved allegations against him.

      British nationalist cronyism at work.

    40. schrodingers cat says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      It’s pretty difficult to say Robertson had any real link with Edinburgh, still less Edinburgh Central.

      —————–

      he was brought up there, went to school in stockbridge (edin central)
      he lives there

    41. Bryan Weir says:

      “Fucking hell, what a shit take. You’re stretching my patience.”

      So what happens when your patience gets stretched?

    42. Terry says:

      @Astonished – of Humza

      “I assume he has never woken to a lack of croissants.” Lol – made me laugh.

      Now that Wings has more than been proved right- any sign of Robert Peffers coming back?

    43. ian says:

      A wholly deliberate ploy.
      The backlash from members re Cherry was predictably obvious. I think the Cathcart issue was created in order to ‘back-peddle’ and placate the masses whilst at the same time get through what was actually the main game.. blocking Cherry.

    44. Bob Mack says:

      Now ask yourselves who has the power in the party?

      The answer is us.

      We can bring them to heel by very profound but simple actions.

      They need your time and your money.If they keep steering the wrong course then hit them where it really hurts.I

    45. Andy Ellis says:

      @SC

      ..and was MP for Moray. He should either have looked for a seat there, or a different seat in Edinburgh.

    46. Calum Duncan says:

      Wooooo…’meeting covertly and with nobody allowed to know who was present or who voted’….yeah, the executive committee of a political Party having a meeting ‘in camera’, whatever next!? Axe grind, or what?

    47. kapelmeister says:

      schrodingers cat

      The point isn’t about Robertson’s right to be the SNP candidate for Edinburgh Central. It’s about the right of SNP members in Edinburgh Central having a free and democratic choice of candidate.

    48. Let’s hope this stooshie marks the beginning of the end of the subversion of Indy, by a most reprehensible group of wide-eyed monomaniacal entryists. Get them and their agenda out!

    49. Allium says:

      Great article, says it all.

      These insignificant and obscure people wield immense power. Unfortunately, that’s only possible with the explicit endorsement of the leadership.

    50. Patsy says:

      If common sense is beginning to prevail (and I’m not counting my chickens yet) it will be thanks to the efforts of the troops on the ground, not the generals in the NEC!

    51. schrodingers cat says:

      @andy
      why?

      he lives in edina. he put his name forward before anyone else?

      i agree with @fwjgw tho’ with ruth gone, i would have thought taking out Alex Cole Hamilton would have been the higher profile seat?

      i dont really understand why folk are squabbling over central. there 3 unionists in edina, all with wafer thin majorities. with the polls as they are now, all 3 are targets

      I dont agree with blocking cherry, the argument that her staff would lose their jobs doesnt hold water. the snp have a 12k majority. they would most likely be out of work for the duration of the campaign. i think it is a risk worth taking. mainly because it would also bring pressure to bear on Doug Ross to vacate his WM seat too.

      hint, he has a very slim majority in Moray

    52. Bob Mack says:

      Positions of power within the party have allowed these zealots a voice that they think entitles them to speak for us all. They do not. How they achieved those positions is irrelevant. They are there and must now be removed ASAP.

      We keep the party in power and we can remove it just as easily.

    53. Famous15 says:

      Let us flush out those soft on independence,

      Have all elected members top up the ring fenced indy2 fund with half their salaries.

      AND All SNP staffers have their salaries reduced to the living wage plus expenses.

      If you say you would die for a cause a little belt tightening wil be a scoosh!

      If you have other more important causes , have the moral courage to go set up your own organisation and leavethe SNP.

    54. ALANM says:

      There must be a great many capable men out there with ambitions to get involved in politics and promote the cause in parliament who no longer feel welcome or valued in today’s (or should that be “toadies”) SNP. These men desperately need a new party willing to offer them that opportunity.

    55. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Wooooo…’meeting covertly and with nobody allowed to know who was present or who voted’….yeah, the executive committee of a political Party having a meeting ‘in camera’, whatever next!?”

      Why are they afraid of scrutiny? Given that these matters should properly have been debated in full public view at conference, but couldn’t be because it was cancelled, clearly the proceedings should have been open and minuted as a minimum.

    56. Graeme says:

      If the decision of the NEC yesterday was to benefit Angus Robertson it’s spectacularly backfired because there’s no way Angus can now stand for that seat with his dignity intact, it’s made him look like a cheat and a coward and the only honourable thing he can do now is stand down and maybe find another seat to contest.

      I’m not saying Angus is a cheat or a coward or that he played any part in this but that’s how this has made him look

    57. Liz says:

      I knew in my heart Spears was at the back of it. Hence the secret voting. She should be suspended forthwith because that is corruption.

      But she’s one of the wokes, so she’ll stay.

      There must have been some enormous backlash with AR backtracking. He didn’t give a shit yesterday after the announcement. He was in full on campaign mode with a sparkle in his step.

      An AR supporter on twitter, happy as hell yesterday, also back tracking.

    58. Bob Mack says:

      @SC,

      You seemed to agree with blocking Cherry yesterday. You almost stated she was like a troublemaker for Wanting to contest the seat.

      Are you also backpeddling today?

    59. Stu hutch says:

      As an snp member.how do I find out who is actually on the NEC who is the chair vice chair ? Who are they answerable to.can they be removed if they have broken the snp constitution.from what information that is available untill now seems like ms spears has been running it for her own ends she should resign from the nec and a complete overhaul begin.

    60. Fireproofjim says:

      I wrote to every SNP MP, and MSP, that I could think of, as well as my local branch secretary, complaining about the Cherry situation as well as the crazy GRA and Hate Crime legislation.
      I know lots of others must have done so as well and I like to think the wave of protest has stared to penetrate the inner circle.
      Regarding Angus Robertson, I believe he is one of the good guys on the strength of meeting him on a few occasions at various meetings. He is a talented person and an asset to the party.
      His response to the stitch up of Joanna Cherry is honest and he could have said nothing or that it was nothing to do with him. It’s just unfortunate that it now seems two of our best politicians are likely to go head to head in Edinburgh. There is room for both in Holyrood.

    61. ahundredthidiot says:

      I blame Star Trek.

      The minute a counsellor and a kid was allowed on the bridge of the Enterprise I knew the World was fucked.

    62. schrodingers cat says:

      i disagreed with cherry’s position of continuing to be an mp as well as an msp.

      i still do.

      also, im not sure why she chose to face off angus robertson. she is mp for edina southern and western, the other 2 slim majority holyrood constituencies are edina south and edin west??

      i dont think its necessary bob. indeed, i think a bye election would be a great idea,

      question? who would be the best candidate to replace cherry? Salmond? 🙂 if he wanted to stand, how could he be refused?

    63. Me Bungo Pony says:

      Walter Jones says: 2 August, 2020 at 11:02 am

      Rev. For every word you post, the Cat will post a word to counter it.

      Him and Bungo are on special ops’ to throw hand grenades into EVERY thread you post that questions the competency of the Sturgeon reign. They are under direct orders from the SNP NEC, which is this lawless beast that mirrors itself in the mould of the Tory Psychopath, Dominic Cummings.

      Who are you? The sycophantic class clipe desperate to be teachers pet? Put your secret squirrel kit away and find something else to play with.

    64. Cath says:

      “i’m not sure how the snp is ignoring women here? i would have thought the reverse?” in reference to all female shortlists.

      Only the right type of women. That is, only the kind of women who openly and vocally state that:

      – Women should not have the right to discuss policies which affect them without being abused or silenced

      – Women should not have the right to maintain their sex based protections as set out in the Equality Act 2010.

      – Women should not have the right to refuse consent to males in single sex spaces or males delivering intimate services to females such as washing, dressing or counselling.

      – Women should not have the right to single sex sport to ensure fairness and safety at all levels of competition.

      – Women should not have the right to organise themselves according to their sex class across a range of cultural, leisure, educational and political activities.

      Oddly enough, most of those favoured women happy to sign up to that agenda are championed by powerful men within the party.

    65. Bob Mack says:

      @Me Bungo Pony,

      Secret squirrel never lost a case.

    66. schrodingers cat says:

      @MBP

      aw, i was enjoying being special ops again

    67. ahundredthidiot says:

      hey Bungo,

      Walter might have sounded like a bit of a clipe in that post, fair enough, maybe he/she is just getting a wee bit fed up with your pish talk.

      But you didnae deny the allegation…….are you here on direct orders from SNP NEC?

    68. Bob Mack says:

      My Bungo Pony is a contributor to Bella who is not get fond of Alex Sa!mond. Enough said.

    69. cirsium says:

      @Andrew F, 11.03
      The “lockdown” is also part of the larger plan. The shutdown is damaging SMEs which are the true producers of value in the economy. The decline in SMEs enables big corporations to become the suppliers of everything. Also the current banking system cannot function without debt creation. The damage to the SMEs will lead to increased borrowing providing the banks with at least another 20 years of income.

    70. Morgatron says:

      All the people of Cathcart want is an MSP who wants independance us a party member and will reply to an email regarding an ongoing issue as quickly as they will jump on twitter highlighting the injustice thats happening to them? Now agree with whats happened here with Dornan is wrong but fundamentaly so is not replying to a constituents request for assistance.

    71. bipod says:

      Just a quick reminder that over three times as many people are now doing from the flu now during this extremely mild “pandemic”.

      https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/22/nearly-three-times-people-dying-flu-pneumonia-coronavirus-13021417/

      Just to put this “pandemic” in perspective.

    72. Joe Smith says:

      It’s no surprise the SNP has dropped independence in their list of current priorities in favour of the woke agenda, the party has been hijacked by ex labour types determined to destroy the party from within because their own party became unelectable.
      These are the same people who made moves to stop Cherry from getting to Holyrood because they feared she would challenge Sturgeons inability to put independence front and centre of priorities. As long as Sturgeon is in charge the woke agenda will continue,and she will continue to take NO for an answer on Indy Ref 2.

    73. Muscleguy says:

      In other news both the Polis Federation & the Law Society Scotland have made highly critical submissions against Humza’s Hate Crime Bill whose Section 2 seems to have been a TRA group’s wet dream rather than a sensible, mature piece of legislation writing.

      That is both arms of justice against a crime bill. Strongly suggesting it might be duly ignored in practice and rabble rousers need not bother reporting folk under it. The public interest provision much seen in the non prosecution of the Garavelli crowd could be used. Then the law will come into disrepute.

      So better to listen to sense & reason and reform it, reintroducing the requirement of intent to offend or induce hatred as previously. Also some form of ‘man on the Clapham omnibus’ type common sense test.

    74. Bob Mack says:

      @Bipod,

      That’s a relief to know something else is killing us as well!!

    75. Cath says:

      “Just a quick reminder that over three times as many people are now doing from the flu now during this extremely mild “pandemic”.

      No they’re not. Three times as many deaths are being recorded as flu *or pneumonia* than recorded as COVID via a test. Covid causes pneumonia, both in viral form then later in secondary bacterial form. Tests are only reliable for the first 5 days of symptoms so would be negative by the time of a secondary bacterial pneumonia (I had mine diagnosed at week 5). Similarly covid can cause strokes and heart issues long after the infectious period.

    76. William McCarron says:

      If the Marx Brothers were in charge of the NEC it would be more competent.

    77. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: SNP NEC.

      A couple of readers posted this list yesterday.

      National Executive Committee

      The National Executive Committee is composed of:

      President: Ian Hudghton
      Leader: Nicola Sturgeon MSP (Glasgow Southside)
      Depute Leader: Keith Brown MSP (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)
      National Treasurer: Colin Beattie MSP (Midlothian North and Musselburgh)
      National Secretary: Dr Angus MacLeod
      Business Convener: Kirsten Oswald MP (East Renfrewshire)
      Organisation Convener: Stacy Bradley
      Member Support Convener: Doug Daniel
      Policy Development Convener: Alyn Smith MP (Stirling)
      Local Government Convener: Cllr Ellen Forson (Clackmannanshire South)
      Women’s Convener: Cllr Rhiannon Spear (Greater Pollok)
      Equalities Convener: Fiona Robertson
      Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic Convener: Cllr Graham Campbell (Springburn/Robroyston)
      Disabled Members’ Convener: Morag Fulton
      Tommy Sheppard MP (Edinburgh East)
      Alison Thewliss MP (Glasgow Central)
      Sixteen regional representatives
      Representatives from the Association of Nationalist Councillors and affiliated organisations

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party#National_Executive_Committee

    78. schrodingers cat says:

      interesting development

      Dr Philippa Whitford @Dr_PhilippaW·2h For ALL @theSNP
      MPs – now trapped at Westminster with no straightforward way to put themselves forward for Scotland’s own Parliament. No one ever mentioned this before any of us stood for Westminster.

      🙂

      she has a 5k majority.

    79. Cath says:

      btw, can we please stop calling these far right entryists “woke”. Some people still see it as meaning progressive, and nothing about these people or their ideology is progressive: it’s as far from that as it’s possible to get. If people have to use woke can it at least be “woke”?

    80. schrodingers cat says:

      ayr holyrood constituency

      tory 16,183
      snp 15,433

      🙂

    81. Colin Alexander says:

      Kenny @11.20am

      Good comment.

      For me it’s votes of the sovereign people for indy, not about British devolution MSPs or British Scots MPs elected in the British system of politics that only recognises – and will only recognise- sovereignty of Crown in UK Parliament.

      If they bend the knee (to the Empress), they’re no for me.

    82. John Walsh says:

      According to Kez Edinburgh is very difficult to predict. “ one of four or five “ parties could win this seat. ?
      I have said for some time The SNP strategists have been too busy focusing on agendas not solely related to Independence. And with the seemingly guaranteed landslide
      vote to keep them in power.
      They thought they could push through those agendas.
      Bet they were shocked with the backlash
      And Humza better rethink. An already jumpy electorate might just either jump ship or not bother voting.
      And the spectre of Alex in the background with March revelations.

      Nicola better get shot of Evans PDQ . And reform the NEC at the same time.
      Aegean Stables comes to mind.
      The next 6 months are going to be like the bumpers at the carnival for the SNP.

    83. Annie 621 says:

      My dear cat died, he was one of the good guys….cats don’t know how to lie.
      On the note of betrayal and cowardice I asked whether Judas was Scottish but failed to elaborate..
      ie because our entire history stinks of it.

    84. Oneliner says:

      @William McCarron

      ‘There is no sanity clause’

    85. Wee Chid says:

      I’ve never been in favour of compulsory all women shortlists but now I don’t even see the point of them. What’s a woman these days anyway?

    86. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “i disagreed with cherry’s position of continuing to be an mp as well as an msp.”

      Sigh. That was NEVER her position. She made it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that if she won Edinburgh Central she would stand down from Edinburgh South West.

    87. bipod says:

      @Cath

      Yeah sure Cath, I also heard that covid can cause cancer and all sorts of other issues, it truly is the ultimate dealy virus. The truth is that the flu is currently killing more people than covid and thats even with the incredible lax way in which covid is added to death certificates.

      The reason why covid bedwetters don’t like this truth is because we don’t shutdown an entire country and ruin millions of lives, and rob people of their liberty over the flu.

    88. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Huh.

    89. Me Bungo Pony says:

      @Bob Mack 12:24 pm
      My Bungo Pony is a contributor to Bella who is not get fond of Alex Sa!mond. Enough said.

      Ermmm …. where do you get the idea I’m “not fond of Alex Salmond“? I have always had the greatest respect for him. Genuinely perplexed about where you got that impression from.

    90. L. Campbell says:

      Cath: I do believe you are right and that the insistence on all-female shortlists has more to do with replacing men with trans women than with women. You can actually see a situation where no women at all appear anywhere in the public sphere – just trans women (i.e.biological men). It is madness, but a madness that seems to be tolerated to a degree that no other would be in the context of societal/scientific norms.

      I also think that Angus Robertson is fair-minded. He is also a very strong television presence. Let’s hope that this mess is sorted soon and both Joanna Cherry and Angus Robertson can stand in a constituency through compromise and a willingness to co-operate.

      Andrew F: for, perhaps the first time ever, the ultra left and the ultra right have joined forces to create a new society. Or, rather, the ultra right, raw capitalism and corporate vested interests is using the ultra left to help to achieve its aims for it. Each exists on an authoritarian/totalitarian spectrum that, essentially, will turn everything we have ever known on its head. It is like Pol Pot/Mau/Stalin/Saddam/Corporate America/unfettered capitalism forming an alliance – oh, they probably did, so, maybe it is not so new. The one thing it is, is exceedingly dangerous to children, the young and women, and probably to a lesser or greater degree, everyone else, too, because it, basically, relies on everything we know to have been proved scientifically, psychologically and socially to be fundamentally wrong in its essence, while giving all the appearance of basing itself on equality and liberalism.

    91. Dubbieside says:

      Surely any decision about the NEC is in the SNP members hands. These are elected posts (not sure about NS though) So the easiest think to do would be to make sure we do not vote for any of the current members and only vote for new people.

      A declaration on their views on independence would be a help in choosing candidates.

    92. Beaker says:

      @Graeme says:
      2 August, 2020 at 12:01 pm
      “If the decision of the NEC yesterday was to benefit Angus Robertson it’s spectacularly backfired because there’s no way Angus can now stand for that seat with his dignity intact, it’s made him look like a cheat and a coward and the only honourable thing he can do now is stand down and maybe find another seat to contest.”

      You get the same problem. If he tries for another seat it will look like he is desperate to get in. Why should local candidates, who have probably worked in the area for years, have their chances scuppered because of a decision made elsewhere? Why should they bear the brunt of a fallout? The least damaging thing he can do is to stand down and disappear. The only seat he could legitimately contest is Moray. But there is the small problem of Richard Lochhead. So he’s buggered.

    93. Me Bungo Pony says:

      @Bob Mack 12:18 pm
      @Me Bungo Pony,
      Secret squirrel never lost a case
      “.

      Bob, Secret Squirrel was a fictional cartoon character. What are you trying to say about Walter :)?

    94. Orri says:

      The balance between what’s a governing parties internal business and what’s government business is always going to be a hard one. That’s why there’s a constant stream of pish about Sturgeon using postits and other non electronic forms of communication. They aren’t subject to FoIs or taping. In all probability she uses official government emails for official government business. Though regardless of how I try I’ve slipped and used my private mail. Different mail programs help.

      As far as the NEC goes that’s up to the SNP. However it does look like their arrogance is showing. The woke squad didn’t get rid of Neale Hanvey despite being the most probable source of the information used to, temporarily, ditch him from the party. If the SNP don’t vet or monitor their candidates public media output then there’s something wrong. It’s a certainty their opponents will try to dig up dirt. The timing and speed of the attack on him is telling.

      Then point though is this, the majority of the SNP membership are in it for independence. The woke are a minority even amongst the activists. They are the ones chapping on doors in an effort to get the vote out. The NEC can neither make them do that or prevent them from doing so in NHs case given there was no opposing official candidate.

      In these two cases the NEC has tried to impose it’s will on the boots on the ground. They’ve tried to use a dodgy interpretation of a rule intended for cases where an incumbent isn’t intending to stand for re-election in a way that could apply to every other current MP or MSP. In the other they’ve blatantly ignored then wishes of the local branch to improve the chances of a candidate for the nomination.

      They’ve done so in an arrogant presumption, or at least it’ll be portrayed as such, that they’ll win the second seat. The first seat is obviously a question that would best be decided at a later date. Requiring the candidate to stand down in advance is not reasonable. Requiring they do so afterwards might be.

      The bright spot in all this is that they don’t think they’ll be able to get their favourites in on the list. What indy needs is a list party that takes a chance on getting a mandate for independence rather than just pretending that somehow the unionists won’t look at percentages and pretend that even an outright majority of SNP MSPs means nothing without over 50%. A list party needs a strong draw and a manifesto that says should it get over 50% thats an outright vote for independence might be enough. Otherwise they commit to supporting a referendum. What we don’t want is the SNP with a majority they can piss away. Let’s not pretend like RISE did that any list party wants anything other than to be kingmaker.

    95. JayR says:

      Why does the SNP NEC have women’s convener, an equalities convener, a BAME convener and a disabled members’ convener? The UK Labour Party and the Green Party down south don’t have these, many other parties don’t. Do we really need all these posts for entryist johnny-come-lately folk like Rhiannon Spear and Graham Campbell to champion their pet causes, which are definitely NOT independence. Why not have a single Equality and Diversity Convener instead of all these posts? Reform the NEC and make sure we all know who’s on it, they’re all elected by the membership and their decisions are made openly.

    96. LeggyPeggy says:

      To everyone on here saying that they’ve never heard of most of the committee members of the NEC committee . These people are voted in by the members who get a DELEGATE pass to conference ,

      Any member of a branch can apply to their branch for a delegate pass to attend conference . You should be notified by your branch that they have a number of delegate passes to conference . That delegate then has voting rights in the elections to this committee .

      The more members a branch has the more delegate passes are allocated to branches for attendees at conference to be able to vote and that is why it’s so important to be involved with your branch and apply for a delegate pass .

      It’s the members party and without members there is no party . We’ve come to far in our quest for Independence to lose control of OUR party now .

    97. Lennie says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      2 August, 2020 at 10:41 am
      “I think the main lesson in this is don’t state your intention to stand down as an MSP unless you’re absolutely certain.”

      “Fucking hell, what a shit take. You’re stretching my patience”

      Almost word for word exactly how Pete Twitshart summarised it on Twitter.

    98. schrodingers cat says:

      “i disagreed with cherry’s position of continuing to be an mp as well as an msp.”

      ————-

      some confusion here.

      “Pete Wishart I have to say that if I was selected to stand as an SNP MSP I wouldn’t even need to be asked to resign my Westminster seat. Just what should happen”

      this isnt what joanna is saying, she infers that she would need to stand down as an mp just to be a PPC?

      however, joanna referred to a leak, i have seen no official press release concerning this

    99. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Almost word for word exactly how Pete Twitshart summarised it on Twitter.”

      Not “almost”. Literally exactly word for word.

    100. susan says:

      Well said Cath@12:14.

    101. schrodingers cat says:

      @lennie

      i copied it from wishart cos i thought it was a fair point

      this is James Dornan SNP’s reply
      @glasgowcathcart·2h Replying to
      @PeteWishart
      I think the main lesson here is ‘read conference resolutions properly before you vote on them at NEC’ myself

      which is a fair point as well.

    102. Rab Dickson says:

      “however, joanna referred to a leak, i have seen no official press release concerning this” schrodingers cat

      Is that right, Pete?

    103. defo says:

      Where’s the bloody squirrel when you need one.

      SC Pete ?

    104. Rab Dickson says:

      “However joanna referred to a leak, I have seen no official press release concerning this” Schrodinger cat

      Is that right, Pete?

    105. Rab Dickson says:

      I repeated myself ‘word for word’ too….just for effect 🙂

    106. schrodingers cat says:

      lol

      its a fair cop gov, i am on special ops for SNP NEC, 🙂

      not sure how they will react to me promoting an indy list party ?

    107. Andy Ellis says:

      Even if SC isn’t actually clueless no-mark Pete Wishart, they have pretty obviously both drunk deeply of the magical Kool-Aid of “trust us indyref2 has never been closer”.

    108. Me Bungo Pony says:

      Is this how childish this site is willing to go? You quote some one so you are some one. It will be petty name calling next ….. oh! ….

    109. defo says:

      U use quotation marks, and it’s polite to credit the source too Pony.

    110. Confused says:

      Every time I go to write a post, it gets overly long and vitriolic – so I delete it thinking : “this is not productive”

      Trying to give the SNP the “benefit of the doubt” here, but – EVERY FUCKING TIME – you kick over a rock and its a crawling infestation of grotesques, none of which with any real interest in independence.

      – all this procedural wankology – “we changed the rules while you weren’t looking” – “a secret meeting” – “double secret probation!” (animal house!)

      That Rhiannon Spear – just looked her up – that woman is … “not right” – she is on the internet writing about her dead baby – grief whoring and virtue signalling at the same time?! What is wrong with you?

      – there is another strategy here, it’s the exact opposite : ASSUME THE WORST – and deal on that basis

      – the SNP leadership is totally compromised
      – the FM is an agent
      – Lesley Evans is her handler; their objectives are Dame of the Thistle and GCMG
      – the woke-ists hold all important nodes in the power network

      Only a total clear out will do – and only a Salmond return will do it (with Cherry riding shotgun)

    111. N. Holmes says:

      @schrodinger’s cat
      So, you comment:
      “i copied it from wishart cos i thought it was a fair point”.

      Thanks for admitting your plagiarism (well, Rev Stu caught you out, you probably wouldn’t have owned up otherwise).

      We’ll bear this in mind when reading your future posts on this site.

    112. Rab Dickson says:

      “Is this how childish this site is willing to go?”

      I await your next cheer-leading post to find out.

    113. schrodingers cat says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      “trust us indyref2 has never been closer”.

      except i’ve never promoted indyref2, without a s30 it wont happen. bojo wont concede one ever. its a dead end

    114. Davie Oga says:

      JayR says:
      2 August, 2020 at 1:34 pm
      Why does the SNP NEC have women’s convener, an equalities convener, a BAME convener and a disabled members’ convener?

      There is also a Disabled Members Group (nothing against that) on the NEC. Fiona Robertson is on the executive commitee of the DMG and has a voice through that as well as being on the NEC in her role as equalities convener.

      Why does she effectively have 2 votes?

    115. schrodingers cat says:

      looking at the motion agreed at last years conference, it doesnt look like this is clear. but nec can refuse joanna on the basis of the motion.

      nothing in it says she needs to resign as mp before becoming a PPC or a candidate or even winning the holyrood seat. just that nec has the power to stop it.

      i dont think this will hold, too many dissenters

      Angus B MacNeil MP @AngusMacNeilSNP
      NEC too busy ganging up on Cherry to think through what they were doing … So likely if they get off with Cherry gang-up, they will simply reverse the decision. #Awful

      sorry for plagiarising Brendan @N. Holmes

    116. Republicofscotland says:

      According to this Tommy Sheppard is on the NEC list, I always liked Tommy’s style of speaking at Westminster, I’m surprised that he went along with the hurdles put up against Cherry.

      A Doug Daniels is also in the list, didn’t the comment in here regularly, pity he hasn’t given us a bit of insight into this disgraceful fiasco.

      National Executive Committee Edit
      The National Executive Committee is composed of:

      President: Ian Hudghton
      Leader: Nicola Sturgeon MSP (Glasgow Southside)
      Depute Leader: Keith Brown MSP (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane)
      National Treasurer: Colin Beattie MSP (Midlothian North and Musselburgh)
      National Secretary: Dr Angus MacLeod
      Business Convener: Kirsten Oswald MP (East Renfrewshire)
      Organisation Convener: Stacy Bradley
      Member Support Convener: Doug Daniel
      Policy Development Convener: Alyn Smith MP (Stirling)
      Local Government Convener: Cllr Ellen Forson (Clackmannanshire South)
      Women’s Convener: Cllr Rhiannon Spear (Greater Pollok)
      Equalities Convener: Fiona Robertson
      Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic Convener: Cllr Graham Campbell (Springburn/Robroyston)
      Disabled Members’ Convener: Morag Fulton
      Tommy Sheppard MP (Edinburgh East)
      Alison Thewliss MP (Glasgow Central)
      Sixteen regional representatives
      Representatives from the Association of Nationalist Councillors and affiliated organisations

    117. Andy Ellis says:

      As I’m no longer a member I don’t really care what the SNP does with it’s internal procedures, but…… I’d hope that after the current bourach the mainstream members of the party will take the opportunity to insist the NEC is thoroughly reformed, elected by OMOV and ensure the roasters who have managed to drive it off a cliff are ejected forthwith.

    118. jfngw says:

      “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country, and why is there a big hole in my head”

      If you quote, you are! After all my initials are halfway there already.

    119. Robert Graham says:

      o/t apologies in advance

      I listened to both contenders for the Libdem leadership this morning on LBC ( i know )
      it’s not just the SNP this transgender issue is affecting this what seems a creeping move to eh question what defines a woman oh for pitty sake no wonder moves are being made out of sight to turn Nature on its head a issue that most people would question what the duck are you people on about , ok there might well be some people who believe they are something else when outwardly they look like either a Woman or a Man .
      so normal practice in turned inside out to accommodate a small percentage of a small percent of the population , how did these troubled souls get so much traction and be so vicious and vocal the trouble and disarray such a small group a causing is beyond belief instead of gaining support they are inviting people to activly oppose anything they stand for, the opposite result is now guaranteed people will activly block anything they want because of their actions ,people dont like being pushed in a direction they dont want to go in , suger usuly works better that shite ,Rant ends have a nice day .

    120. JayR says:

      @Republicofscotland
      When I was still a member I voted for Tommy Sheppard for Deputy Leader. Great and inspiring speaker, true left-winger, rather than Angus “I Could Easily Be Mistaken For A Tory” Robertson. Tommy would be a far better Westminster leader than wee Ian Blackford. Time to clear out the trash.

    121. CameronB Brodie says:

      Andrew F
      I’m not sure if the conclusion you draw is correct. Economies are shaped by culture, and inclusive cultures support more diverse and robust economies. I certainly didn’t get the impression from your quoted passage, that our economic recovery is dependent on undermining the legal rights of natural born women, which is the TRAs ultimate agenda. Natural born women play a crucial role in any economy, so undermining their potential to do so, simply wouldn’t be logic or helpful towards economic recovery.

    122. shug says:

      proposers and seconders of these motions must be rooted out

    123. schrodingers cat says:

      I’m no longer a member

      i am. i find it heartening that so many mps etc are calling out necs decision.

      i think mps like dr philippa whitford and joanna cherry coming back to holyrood would be great

      the bye elections would be even better 🙂

    124. Derick fae Yell says:

      The biggest surprise in all this is that we have discovered that Angus MacLeod is still alive.

      Most of us had assumed he was deid, given that the hundreds of formal complaints about the Stirling clique were not even acknowledged

    125. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. Trans-women also have rights, which are protected under international law in the same way as the rights of natural born women. That is not how the agenda is being pushed though, as the TRAs are aiming to destroy the legal settlement of “equal but different”.

    126. Effijy says:

      Disagree with the Cat above.

      James Dornan is free to change his mind like any of us.

      The Cathcart branch have done nothing wrong as they made none of the decisions we discussed.

      Overall James seems to have done a good job for the Cathcart Area and earned the respect of
      The electorate and more likely than anyone to win the seat.

      Ms Spears tried to get in at Rutherglen some years back but she was not the best candidate that applied.

      She is young and may be a good prospect as the years and this episode brings greater wisdom.

    127. MaggieC says:

      Here is Joanna Cherry’s twitter post with her statement regarding leaks to the press of the Nec’s decision .

      https://mobile.twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1289153469513949186

      And this was an interesting post from her as well replying to Marco Biago who has also now declared that he wishes to stand for selection by the Snp for Edinburgh Central .

      https://mobile.twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1289105832928522240

      And the front page of The National showing that one of the Women for Independence has decided to run also for Edinburgh Central and that is before we have other parties declaring who will stand for election in May 2021 .

      https://mobile.twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1289658913038766080

    128. CameronB Brodie says:

      If the TRAs are allowed to destroy the legal settlement of “equal but different”, Scotland’s potential to become independent will be significantly undermined.

      Human Rights Education Project
      Human Rights Concepts Ideas and Fora
      Substantive Human Rights
      The Right to Equality and Non-discrimination

      http://www.humanrights.is/en/human-rights-education-project/human-rights-concepts-ideas-and-fora/substantive-human-rights/the-right-to-equality-and-non-discrimination

    129. Walter Jones says:

      Cat and Bungo

      Cover blown wide open.

      The two of you uncovered as a pair of incompetent special agents, working for the illegal and discredited SNP NEC.

      Back to the drawing board.

      What a perra roasters.

      You will need to try harder if you want to beat the sharpest minds in Scottish Politics who frequent the best blog in the world, right here on Wings Over Scotland.

      Oh man aching sides

      Hahaha!!!!!!

    130. jfngw says:

      @Effijy

      Ms Spears tried to get in at Rutherglen some years back but she was not the best candidate that applied.

      I think statement would hold for every constituency to be fair. Expect her to appear on the list, presumably in an area that they can achieve a list seat.

      As for Mr Dornan, it would depend if he was aware of the ‘women only list’ when he stated he was not going to stand again. I don’t agree with any ‘ x only’ rules, what next ‘trans only lists’ but once rules are passed and you start the wheels in motion it can often be difficult to change the outcome. There does seem to be a lack of forethought as to the consequences of decisions made in many areas at Holyrood, I thought that was politicians were supposed to do otherwise we might as well just ask the crowd.

    131. schrodingers cat says:

      Effijy says:
      James Dornan is free to change his mind like any of us.

      ————–

      yes he is, however the nec has been heavily criticised in the past for not getting candidates in place quick enough, the fiasco of the last council elections where 3 weeks from the vote we still didnt have all the candidates in place.

      Altho i dont agree with it, since james announced he was stepping down in feb, all female lists have been inmposed on these constituencies since then. its party policy

      when james dornan announced he was going to stay, on the 3rd of july nec should have reversed that decision. they have now. good

      but any male PPC’s who now want to contest Glasgow Carthcart can now come forward but another round of vetting may delay the process of selection and the final announcment of candidates across scotland.

      but the decision has now been made and is water under the bridge.

      i’m more concerned fith the fate of mps who wish to stand as msps.

      i think they should be encouraged

    132. jfngw says:

      @Walter Jones

      If we are the ‘sharpest minds’ why are we sitting commenting BTL on a blog site on a Sunday afternoon. You really need to get a grip on reality, nobody with any influence gives a rats arse what we write here. Although I think you may believe in reincarnation.

    133. red sunset says:


      jfngw says:
      2 August, 2020 at 2:48 pm
      @Effijy

      Ms Spears tried to get in at Rutherglen some years back but she was not the best candidate that applied.

      As for Mr Dornan, it would depend if he was aware of the ‘women only list’ when he stated he was not going to stand again.”

      He probably did, but then there’s “women” and there’s “women”.
      I would assume an all-women list to be for positive discrimination.
      But other people might assume such a list to be for presenting opportunities for specific persons.

      My guess is that James Dornan found out who had been angling to replace him, and thought … “I didn’t work all these years to bequeath it all to that person”.

    134. Bob W says:

      @SC
      “but any male PPC’s who now want to contest Glasgow Carthcart can now come forward”

      Surely you meant ‘any male/ female’?

    135. schrodingers cat says:

      the selection process is quite lengthy, it includes a process and time required for rejected PPC’s to appeal etc

      but james dornan seems well liked in glasgow cathcart, it is likely that appeals from his own branch were responsible for the nec decision being overturned

    136. schrodingers cat says:

      @bob W

      “but any male PPC’s who now want to contest Glasgow Carthcart can now come forward”

      Surely you meant ‘any male/ female’?
      ————-

      no, females have always been able to come forward. its the imposition of female only lists which effectively side lined any male PPC’s in that constituency.

      as i said, im not a big fan of this policy

    137. ahundredthidiot says:

      hahafekingha – that’s made my day – schrodingers cat rumbled

      not so much a pussy as he is a fandanny.

      no sure what’s worse!, being pete wishart or copying his shite.

    138. Clapper57 says:

      You know I have read online some peeps stating that we on here, and the owner of this site, are doing the Unionists job for them in criticising the SNP.

      Funny enough I thought that one of the things the Unionists always stated was the myth that we are a cult….that is, we are all so brainwashed, that we accept without question everything that the SNP , as the main recognised Indy party, implements and endorses.

      Recently this myth has been dispelled due to the backlash of SNP members opposing recent ill judged decisions made by the SNP….those of us who have done this are still fully committed to gain independence and still as passionate however not to the extent that we are willing to sacrifice our sense of justice.

      If you remain silent because you do not wish to ” Rock the boat” then you become as compliant as all of those Unionist voters who for example say they voted Remain in EU Ref. but now embrace Brexit because THEIR parties state they must accept it thus these Unionist are willing to surrender a previous held position because they put their political party before country…or rather themselves.

      It is today quite refreshing that you find people who , as members of a political party, are willing to openly challenge and voice any criticism against their chosen political party, especially in a world where populist political parties, such as the Tory party, are forcing their followers to gag themselves into submission….and these followers aka ‘ordinary’ people that populist politicians reach out to …..duly comply because they, the followers, do not want to ‘Rock the Boat”…..and damage their party politically. So they choose the cowardly option of remaining silent and thus closing down any potential dissent….but in doing this they are still expected to believe that ‘Democracy’ and the rights to speak freely is THE most important issue to respect within UKnotOK……

      So it should be applauded that some of us as SNP members ( now sadly former members) buck the trend and speak out when we disagree with the party….and do this at a time when, yes it is crucial for the Indy movement ( as it has been crucial since 2016 EU Ref when Scots voted to Remain in EU but others within the UKnotOK did not), but to not speak out would make us no different from those we oppose….and the point of leaving the UKnotOK is because we seek to be distinctive and free from the obvious corruption, cronyism and social inequality that is so obviously prevalent in Boris’s Tory Brexit Dystopia….and we also want to live in a country where freedom of speech and the option to speak out with honesty is embraced and not denied by the party we elect to govern us.

      I am sad it has come to this but I will always be defiant that my vote is not conditional on my being silent and subservient and thus just accepting all things dictated by the party I choose to be a member of…especially in instances where I think they are wrong….and when I know it will be detrimental to me and mine….and ultimately the country I want to be a citizen of…….if we are not better than this then surely we should want to be or else what’s the bloody point of us getting our independence.

      Apologies for long post…..

    139. schrodingers cat says:

      jfngw says:

      If we are the ‘sharpest minds’ why are we sitting commenting BTL on a blog site on a Sunday afternoon.

      ————

      i’m just waiting for the space ship to land 🙂

    140. Walter Jones says:

      jfngw abcxyz

      The Sturgeonistas are circling the wagons.

      You see two of your incompetent agents (Cat n Bungo) being unmasked and try the old deflection trick.

      Will the real Pete Wishart please stand up.

      abcxyz,,,for all we know, YOU could be the real Pete Wishart.

    141. Bob Mack says:

      @SC,

      I’m just having a break from repairing my nuclear fusion central heating. Harder to get Plutonium these days.

    142. schrodingers cat says:

      @bob

      eat, drink and be merry

      tomorrow we may be radioactive 🙂

    143. Alibi says:

      The SNP needs to remove Angus Mcleod from his position immediately. Same with Rhiannon Spear who seems to be trying to harm the indy movement – I think her priority is not indy. There may be others. Time for tNicola Sturgeon to listen to the membership as clearly small cliques have far too much influence.

    144. Orri says:

      No male can put themselves forward for selection in Cathcart because it isn’t up for selection because the current incumbent is no longer standing down at the next election.
      The reason the all woman, should really be female, stipulation has been withdrawn is it didn’t apply. Which the NEC don’t have the ability to reject withdrawal of a decision to stand down before selection had actually started.

    145. Bob Mack says:

      Can anyone actually tell me what Peter Murrells duties are as a Chief Executive? In any organisation I have ever worked with it is usually their job to ensure everything is running as it should.

      Looking at the disasters within the SNP right now I would humbly submit that he has failed in that remit.I

      He should step down immediately. If this was any other business (which the SNP actually are) it would be an enforced resignation issue.

      Why is he immune?

    146. Willie says:

      To change the tack if I may reports emerging from Westminster suggest that Boris Johnson is preparing legislation to allow his government to implement Stay at Home Orders on people in London between the ages of 50 and 70 years old.

      Reading between the lines this very much suggests that the Dominic Cummings strategy of letting the virus rip to protect the economy is very much on the cards again.

      Requiring the over 50s to stay at home seems therefore predicated on the medical knowledge that virus kills predominately older people and the health compromised. But letting the virus rip will kill younger folks too albeit in lesser numbers, and of course restricting over 50s to their homes, denying them the right to work, whilst they still need to go out and shop or go to the doctor is still problematic in that inevitably older folks will die too.

      And of course with a London rampant again with the virus it will inevitably impact on Scotland.

      Ah, the Union Dividends just keep giving and a true Boris bonus.

      Time our majority of SNP MPs, the direct descendants of the Treaty of Union of 1707 returned to Edinburgh and repealed the treaty re-establishing Scottish sovereignty, re-establishing a sovereign Scottish Parliament.

    147. iain mhor says:

      Hmm things move fast.

      So, digging around to answer my own prior questions, I’m not much the wiser – Why does Joanna Cherry want to be an MSP and then not want to be an MSP.
      My initial impression was, that despite all the ‘JC constitutional jousting, handed them their arse hoorah etc’ of the last couple of years, Joanna had decided that Westminster was not the route to achieve independence, else why pitch for Holyrood.

      The recent tweet by Dr Whitford about being ‘trapped at Westminster’ with no (straightforward) way back to Holyrood, also lends weight to the idea that MP’s may well be contemplating an exodus (or at least keep a lifeboat) and Westminster is a dead end for Independence.

      As for changing from MP to MSP, I did come to realise that there may well have been a loss of Edinburgh SW in boundary changes. Which was a bit deflating, because then it appeared it may just have been a simple (excusable) pitch for a new job before getting canned as an MP in boundary reshuffles. Why that job though?

      As the recipient of a long standing vendetta from elements within the SNP, I wouldn’t be in any hurry to get an office anywhere near them unless I had good reason to want to – I there was good reason why back down?
      Even it was some feint to draw the vipers into the light with their blatant rigging, It doesn’t preclude her from going ahead and standing anyway, if the goal was indeed a position at Holyrood and a very good reason for it.

      Ms Cherry is not liable to be sitting unemployed waiting on UC, while training for a CSCS card in the hope of some labouring work.
      Nor is £10k an unreachable bar to entry for her – I’m sure she can find that down the back of the settee and her supporters have already pledged to raise that amount for her. So why withdraw?

      Being extremely canny, she may not wish to gamble any money on a contest she still has a potential to lose, nor gamble her current MP position, which still has some months to run. Or possibly, she just wishes to avoid making her staff unemployed (as she has intimated)
      I’m not quite sure how that works – unless the procedure is that you get to transfer your staff, their positions and salary – then they would have been thrown under a bus in a few few months anyway.

      If it was a withdrawal merely on principle, in the hope that like Cathcart, the decision is overturned – and it looks as though it might well be – that might seem canny, but that’s letting any opponent get the drop on campaigning, fundraising and propaganda.
      Mr Robertson (and others) may now be intimating that a fair fight should occur; but if Ms Cherry u-turns again, it risks alienating potential voters who might view the vacillation as no great interest, or commitment, to the constituency, or even Holyrood.

      That’s why I’m pulling at the thread. If there is to be some kind of weathervane for a route to Indy, I could do worse than watch Joanna Cherry.
      Am I engaging in a badly veiled slight against her? Not at all, she is indeed an admirable politican and I believe a pretty canny legal mind – It’s just that I keep being urged to view JC as some new saltire caped hero to the rescue of Independence (and the SNP?) and cynically, I don’t see it. Yet.

      So I keep scratching the itch and pulling the thread.
      All very curious indeed. Is it going to be Joanna (and other MP’s) jumping ship to Holyrood to ‘save the SNP’ and/or because there is no way to Indy via Westminster; or is it just run of the mill infighting and career opportunities.
      Something is in the wind, buggered if I know what direction it’s pointimg.

    148. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Stuart,

      Just for clarification as maybe my understanding of your (effing hilarious) implication needs flesh put on the bones…

      Is “Shrodingers Cat” actually Pete Wishart?

      They both have a certain way of uttering pish in that old has-been rocker fae Runrig sort of vibe going on.

    149. Me Bungo Pony says:

      @Walter Mitty 3:23pm
      Cat and Bungo
      Cover blown wide open. The two of you uncovered as a pair of incompetent special agents, working for the illegal and discredited SNP NEC. Back to the drawing board.

      What a perra roasters.

      You will need to try harder if you want to beat the sharpest minds in Scottish Politics who frequent the best blog in the world, right here on Wings Over Scotland“.

      Yeah Walter, you’re too smart for us. As a special treat, for being such a special boy, ask your mum if you can have some cake and a fizzy drink to celebrate your fantastic (emphasis on fantasy) detective work. You deserve it 😉

    150. schrodingers cat says:

      @orri

      not what James Dornan SNP @glasgowcathcart says
      “I consider myself to be the best candidate for this constituency, that I live in and grew up on. If anyone wishes to challenge me then they should have the courage to take me on”

      anyone can challenge a sitting msp when it comes to reselection

    151. Dan says:

      @ Bob Mack at 4:10 pm

      It is quite astonishing just how long certain matters have been allowed to foment within the Party.
      It’s hard to believe anyone in the upper echelons of the Party could not have been aware of issues that really needed to be addressed before they get out of hand and the shit hits the fan.

      Howz Mr Murrel’s driving? I think this 1 min clip from Cheech and Chong sums it up and might explain the lack of awareness…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v39JQZ_tyw

    152. callmedave says:

      Corona:

      Scotland……..today…….00……..Total…..2491…WM Gov
      N. Ireland……today…….00……..Total……556…WM Gov
      Wales………..today…….03……..Total…..1565…WM Gov
      England………today…….05.sun….Total…*41589..*WM Gov
      =========================================================
      UK…………..today…….08……..Total….46201…WM Gov

    153. CameronB Brodie says:

      Letting covid-19 rip through the community will prolong its’ prevalence in the environment, and increase the likelihood of its’ mutation into something much worse. English Torydum values cultural tradition over science and international law though, so a belief in the mythical ‘herd immunity’ to this novel and deadly pathogen, is compatible with Brexit. Which is simply an articulation of populist, authoritarian, English nationalism and Tory prejudice.

      The Right to Health in International Law
      https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199603299.001.0001/acprof-9780199603299

    154. willie says:

      The tide is turning and it will turn into a tidal wave.

      That so many loyalists are running for cover denying any knowledge of who was on the NEC, who voted in favour of an absolutely outrageous restriction on people being able to stand as candidates, the water is I think lapping around Peter Murrell and his spouse.

      Maybe the FM does not know what was going on in the SNP’s National Executive Committee. Maybe she knows nothing about the Alex Salmond stich up. Maybe her focus is the coronavirus briefings.

      Well, someone is directing policy, someone made the decision to effectively bar Joanna Cherry, and if the FM is not in charge, who is.

      Change is coming and if the inertial conniving coterie in control, or not as it seems now being suggested, do not buck up, then they are gone.

      Angus Robertson might be the first casualty. He is finished in any attempt to stand for Edinburgh, and his only chance may be to try to stand against Douglas Ross up in his home neck of the woods. Personally, I think he is all washed up across Scotland and ditto his wife too.

    155. ahundredthidiot says:

      I see the daft laddie footballers are shamefully ‘taking a knee’ for Black Lives Matter – a marxist, anarchist organisation who’s real agenda has been revealed and exposed for the rabid, woke organisation that it is.

      and before anyone says it is for ‘give racism the red card’ – that’s been about for ages with no need to take any knee, so please, spare me the tripe.

      There must be a small circle of people all placing bets on just how ridiculous they can make humanity look.

      The fella behind the ‘I bet I can make them all wear face-masks’ challenge, picked up his winnings yesterday. Looks like the ‘I bet I can get them all on their knees’ chap has a wee bit yet to go…….coming soon to a Town Centre near You.

    156. Bob Mack says:

      @ahundredtheidiot,

      You really,really make me want to vomit.

    157. schrodingers cat says:

      willie says:
      Angus Robertson might be the first casualty. He is finished in any attempt to stand for Edinburgh,

      ———-

      he doesnt live in moray, he lives in edinburgh. its where he is from

      I’m disapointed that they couldnt have worked this out, there a 3 unionist msps in edina, room for them all

    158. Alec Lomax says:

      ahundredidiot = Tommy McRobinson.

    159. ahundredthidiot says:

      Bob

      your vomit will be orange. You probably thought they could name the books of the Bible, eh?

      unlike you, I am always wary of organisations with names of good intentions you couldn’t possibly disagree with.

    160. ahundredthidiot says:

      Alec Lomax = learn to fucking spell

    161. Walter Jones says:

      Cat/Pete

      I am going to call you out as a British agent.

      They have nobbled you.

      All those years at Westminster weren’t a waste of tax payers money after all

      The english establishment made you an offer you couldn’t refuse.

      Wishart/Cat/Bungo, you have sold the jerseys for your own personal gain.

      So fuck off to your beloved engerland.

      You can’t hide your double life forever Wishart.

      We will find out the truth and convict you of treason.

      And your fate will be in the hands of the people of an independent Scotland.

      You bastard.

    162. george wood says:

      Angus Robertson could have easily avoided all this.

      You don’t jump into the backyard of the most prominent SNP politician in Edinburgh without asking them first if they are standing. She is the obvious choice for the seat.

      If he asked and she said yes then he could try elsewhere and no harm done. That way you don’t have two supposedly big players (one real and one imaginary) scrapping over the same nomination.

      No doubt his ego was telling him that he would be the better candidate, even though hardly anybody outwith political anoraks will have heard of him.

    163. schrodingers cat says:

      ha ha ha ha ha ha

    164. anonymoose says:

      The SNP is as bad as Labour for it’s backstage shenanigans. I remember, a number of years ago in Bathgate, the constituency SNP met at the Bathgate theatre to decide the list for the next election.

      Livingstone strongly supported Margo McDonald. However Kenny McKaskill had other ideas. Apparently he set up a number of Edinburgh branches, their sole existence to deny Margo’s place on the list.

      She came 6th, left the SNP and became an independent MSP. The contender in the Livingstone was soundly beaten by Labour. We left the count to the jeers of the Labour deadbeats.

    165. Bob Mack says:

      @SCOT

      Is that an anagram for aaaaaahhhhhh!

    166. ahundredthidiot says:

      BLM Co-Founder is a ‘Trained Marxist’

      https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

      and from BLM website;

      ‘We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.’

      and,

      ‘We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.’

      (that is code for communism folks – and not the good kind – it never is….)

    167. ahundredthidiot says:

      Hot from suing the shit out of the Rugby Australia for their woke attempt to curtail his free speech (I don’t agree with his view, but agree with his right to take it – and say it) Israel Falou has refused to ‘take the knee’ before St Helens v Catalan Dragons rugby league match.

      Just like those who refuse to wear a poppy, this would be his right to free speech – would it not?, but what is going to happen next is a good old fashioned witch hunt – pure and simple.

      I can hear all the woke idiots lining up now, sharpening their pitchforks.

    168. John Digsby says:

      When is Alex Salmond’s book coming out?

    169. Beaker says:

      @Walter Jones says:
      2 August, 2020 at 3:23 pm
      “Will the real Pete Wishart please stand up.
      abcxyz,,,for all we know, YOU could be the real Pete Wishart.”

      What’s this? Fucking Spartacus?

      I’m Pete Wishart!

    170. schrodingers cat says:

      @beaker

      lol

      I’m brian and so’s my wife 🙂

    171. CameronB Brodie says:

      ahundredthidiot
      Get back in the sea.

      Authoritarianism and Gender Roles: Toward a Psychological Analysis of Hegemonic Relationships
      https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0146167297231005

    172. Bob Mack says:

      @SC,

      Reminds me of the old gladiator joke.

      Guy having first fight in the arena and his opponent chops off both of his arms. The newbie carries on regardless and tries to kick his opponent, at which point his opponent chops off both his legs.

      He had to concede eventually as he was unarmed and defeeted.

      Boom boom.

    173. schrodingers cat says:

      @bob

      we’ll call it a draw 🙂

    174. Orri says:

      Turns out there’s a third potential candidate who’d quite like his old job back now that it seems Davidson is going to sod off.
      At the moment it’s probably a waiting game to see who the Tories put up bearing in mind they might persuade the other unionists to collude by deliberately putting up weak candidates, just as they could agree to do the same in other regions.

    175. schrodingers cat says:

      spaceship going to land in pepsi cola

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFG2tDvfHKA

      less rockets there

    176. Michael Laing says:

      @iain mhor at 4.16pm: What on earth are you gibbering about? I don’t think there’s any great mystery about why Joanna Cherry wanted to stand for selection as an MSP, nor why she withdrew. I’m fairly sure she wanted to stand because she knows Sturgeon’s days are numbered, and she wants to be in a position to challenge for the leadership, or at least be in a position to take an active role in the Scottish government, when the excrement hits the fan. And I’m fairly sure she withdrew because it was decided in the most undemocratic and underhand way to implement a rule that sitting MPs must resign their Westminster seats if they want to stand for election as MSPs. Is that not patently obvious?

    177. Orri says:

      On a related issue. The GRA act and other laws do need repealed or rewritten and the current campaign might backfire on TRAs if they aren’t careful.

      Due to the way being a woman is traditionally entwined with adult female humans and sex and gender were legally inseparable there are laws that require you to live as a woman whilst at the same time being unable to define what that means. And more to the point imply you must get others to play along.

      Admittedly there was always an assumption before GRCs were introduced as a fudge to allow some same sex marriages that this would be part of a supervised process on the road to gender reassignment/confirmation surgery.

      The sting in the tail and where it could go tits up is that the proposed law will include a clause that would make it illegal to obtain one fraudulently. Not only does that imply they could be cancelled but it means that obtaining one in order to gain access to cause another offence would aggravate that and possibly increase any punishment incurred.

      In possible fraudulent uses I’d include the prime examples of prisoners being housed in female estate who commit sexual assaults. Athletes who use them to gain unfair advantage and effectively rob biological females of prizes and scholarships. Those who use them to circumvent female only list. You can probably include a whole litany of the scumbag actions we’ll all have seen examples of.

    178. dakk says:

      “If we are the ‘sharpest minds’ why are we sitting commenting BTL on a blog site on a Sunday afternoon.”

      Fuck sake, What does that say about those of us just sitting reading it?

    179. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. the TRAs and their systematic gas-lighting of culture and society.

      Something Has Cracked: Post-Truth
      Politics and Richard Rorty’s Postmodernist
      Bourgeois Liberalism

      https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/post-truth-politics-rorty.pdf

    180. SilverDarling says:

      From Philippa Whitford’s tweet can we assume some people stood for Westminster instead of Holyrood, thinking they would be allowed to stand for Holyrood when the time was right? If they have been shafted by the NEC jiggery pokery then they should be rightly furious.

      Some like Pete Wishart, Stewart McDonald, Alyn Smith and Mhairi Black can stay away forever as far as I am concerned although it seems they are actively working against Independence from there.

      A majority of 80 means for 5 years they have no influence whatsoever – we need the best people up here working now where it makes a difference. On a personal level, the utter humiliation and feeling of helplessness must really get to people like Dr Whitford and Joanna Cherry who must feel sometimes they could probably be deployed better out of politics now. What would Wishart and co do out of Westminster? Who cares?

    181. Walter Jones says:

      Was Alex Salmond not an MP, an MSP and also leader of the SNP all at the same time???

      So what is the big stooshie about Joanna Cherry,,who has repeatedly said she will stand down as an MP if elected to Holyrood

    182. Ottomanboi says:

      CameronB Brodie 16:44
      Community or herd immunity is not a ‘myth’.
      Here is a simple rationale of the concept.
      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1074761320301709
      Until there is a vaccine this year, next year, whenever and one that might actually prove effective, it ought not be discounted. Protect the weak and vulnerable if necessary and let the rest look after themselves? A truly mature and democratic approach.
      Remember there is still no effective vaccine for HIV, so we might have a rather long wait for the ‘magic bullet’.

    183. Bob Mack says:

      Wee Ginger Dug has gone to AWOL to recuperate. Too many negative posts on his blog. His followers blame Campbell and his robotic followers and are earnestly clutching their tartan shawls and bunnets.

      They might organise a carers rota.

      Own up. Who did it?

      Imagine relying on any of them when the going gets tough.

    184. jfngw says:

      Why are people asking about the peerage for Ruth Davidson, it’s obviously to celebrate her eight in a row. No other politician in history, to my knowledge, has lost as many elections without being sacked and allowed to resign and have it marked as a great loss to the country (not shared by the electorate who rated her lower than Thatcher). Not only deserving a peerage but a place in the Guinness book of records must be on the table.

      Meanwhile Tory Ross wants to remove powers and hand them down to the councils, this goes hand in hand with the WM wanting to give the money directly to councils. When the Tories have finished the only role for FM will be to appear on the BBC to answer why Scotland is failing and why are they blaming Westminster (and of course something about hospitals, the BBC in Scotland are very into hospitals).

      I will now have to move on from art jokes with the demise of Mr Monet and move onto football references. Here’s one we can play in the future when the final winning independence vote is declared, ‘Some people are on the streets, they think it’s all over, it is now’.

    185. Effijy says:

      Ottomanandboi

      Ever hear of anyone getting HIV by walking past someone
      and then spreading it around the plant debilitating 18 Million people?

      I am now considering that the virus cannot be stopped without a vaccine.
      This would mean the billion people on the planet who are in their later years
      Or who have serious underlying health issue will become virtually house bound
      Their homes will need to have special cleansing stations to ensure everything
      Going in is free fee the virus.

      This measure alone will take a great deal of management and funding.

    186. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Walter Jones.

      Having met schrodingers cat at numerous pro-indy rallies since 2014, I can assure you he looks nothing like Pete Wishart – and Pete Wishart doean’t sound like a Fifer, ya hoormin!

    187. SilverDarling says:

      @Bob Mack

      It seems some just migrated to WGD to vent their fury against Wings, and they do it day after day after day …

    188. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      doean’t = doesn’t…

    189. LeggyPeggy says:

      This is Dani Garvelli’s column “ Cherry on the cake for those who oppose Independence “

      http://archive.vn/jy1x7

      And this is the interesting part of it

      “ If an MP/MSP is juggling two roles, it is likely their constituents will be short-changed. There is also an argument politicians should commit to one parliament rather than shifting back and forth as they spot new opportunities to advance their career .”

      What about John Nicolson who has a radio show ?

      That’s a case of having two jobs at the same time .

      Bruce Crawford is not standing again as an Msp for Stirling .

      Will Alyn Smith jump ship to Holyrood in the Stirling seat and give up as an Mp after he’s already been in the European Parliament ? .

      Hopefully the rule will change and MPs can stand for Holyrood before resigning their seat at Westminster and Joanna Cherry will stand for Holyrood , whether in a different seat or Edinburgh Central would be up to Joanna .

      Our fight for Independence will happen in Holyrood and that is why need Joanna with her legal background in Holyrood and not in Westminster now that the Tory’s have an 80 seat majority .

    190. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ottomanboi
      Herd immunity is not an appropriate strategy when tackling a novel and deadly pathogen, which we have no protection or cure for.

      Full text.

      Covid-19: Herd immunity is “unethical and unachievable,” say experts after report of 5% seroprevalence in Spain
      The results of the first nationwide population based epidemiological study of SARS-Cov-2 seroprevalence, conducted across Spain, reveal a national prevalence of only 5%, making global efforts to deliver herd immunity through natural infection both “unethical and unachievable,” according to experts.

      https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2728

    191. Gruff Williams says:

      Well, ladies and gentlemen. If you recall in 1999, plaid gained a higher percentage of votes than the SNP. We were immediately infiltrated by the British state, our leader is now in the house of lords. Mark it. Mark it well. We are screwed, you can still shake off this Brit shit.

    192. schrodingers cat says:

      Walter Jones says:
      Cat/Pete
      I am going to call you out as a British agent.
      So fuck off to your beloved engerland.
      We will find out the truth and convict you of treason.
      You bastard.

      seriously……….. ?

      http://www.joeydevilla.com/2014/10/20/this-rejected-new-yorker-cartoon-might-just-be-the-best-new-yorker-cartoon-of-all-time/

    193. susan says:

      Yes we need Joanna Cherry in Holyrood because she’s not a bought-for wokist (I think).

    194. schrodingers cat says:

      LeggyPeggy says:
      This is Dani Garvelli’s column

      “ If an MP/MSP is juggling two roles, it is likely their constituents will be short-changed. There is also an argument politicians should commit to one parliament rather than shifting back and forth as they spot new opportunities to advance their career .”

      I wonder if she comes out with the same mince for Dougie ross?

    195. bipod says:

      Letting covid-19 rip through the community will prolong its’ prevalence in the environment, and increase the likelihood of its’ mutation into something much worse

      As someone who regularly invokes “the science” on the trans issue, you will understand when I ask you what scientific evidence do you have for this extraordinary claim? As a matter of fact what evidence do you have that the lockdown, an english tory policy that you are so very fond of, that proves that it stopped it from ripping through the community or saved a single life, other than chest thumping from boris and nicola? I will point out again that no lockdown swedens death rates have dropped like a lead balloon similarly with the much less important number of confirmed infections. There is no correlation between lockdown and successful suppression of the virus.

      This is nothing more than fear mongering and conspiracy theories over a virus that turns out to be no more dangerous than seasonal flu for the vast majority of the population.

      Scotlands economy will never recover as long as dithering nicola continues to fear monger and bang on about a virus that hasn’t killed anyone here in half a month. Independence or not.

    196. Tannadice Boy says:

      O/T ready to talk about yesterday’s game Stu?. I was listening on audio. Didn’t think Aberdeen were going to get anything out of the game fairly early on. My team..I was reliving the season we got relegated. Couldn’t beat a team reduced to ten men after taking the lead. Still I would have accepted a point before kick off. Why I am I talking about football? Because we have to step back and keep things in perspective. And keep the political discourse respectful.

    197. LeggyPeggy says:

      Schronginders cat @ 7.41 pm

      Did you read the archive link to her column ? She only mentions Jackson Carlaw’s resignation .

    198. bipod says:

      Their homes will need to have special cleansing stations to ensure everything
      Going in is free fee the virus.

      This measure alone will take a great deal of management and funding.

      I suppose the more reasonable solution is to crash the entire economy and trash everyones lives indefinitely, until we wait for a vaccination that may or may not stop the virus.

    199. dakk says:

      Jfngw

      Nice interlude whoever the baldy guy was

    200. CameronB Brodie says:

      bipod
      The article published by the British Medical Journal, that I linked to a few minutes ago.

      Covid-19: Herd immunity is “unethical and unachievable,” say experts after report of 5% seroprevalence in Spain
      https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m2728

      If that’s not enough, here’s another opinion. Btw, what’s you scientific and legal background, if that’s not a personal question?

      Full text

      COVID?19 STRATEGY UPDATE

      Transitioning to and maintaining a steady state of low-level or no transmission
      For many countries and subnational authorities and communities, managing a controlled and deliberate transition from a scenario of community transmission to a sustainable, steady state of low-level or no transmission is, at present, the best-case outcome in the short and medium term in the absence of a safe and effective vaccine.

      For countries yet to report community transmission, preventing the escalation of transmission and maintaining a steady state of low-level or no transmission may be feasible. Achieving either of these aims will hinge on the ability of national and/or subnational authorities to ensure that six key criteria are satisfied:

      1 COVID?19 transmission is controlled to a level of sporadic cases and clusters of cases, all from known contacts or importations and the incidence of new cases should be maintained at a level that the health system can manage with substantial clinical care capacity in reserve.

      https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/covid-strategy-update-14april2020.pdf?sfvrsn=29da3ba0_19

    201. Effijy says:

      Remember Tory Malcolm Rifkin caught charging
      An under cover reporter £5,000 for a letter of introduction
      To the head of a government department.

      After the reveal he insisted he had completed all his parliamentary
      Works for lunchtime, which gave him the afternoon for other opportunities?

      Wee Ruth Harrison received payment as a TA soldier and made £20,000
      as a Russian lady’s lunch companion.

      Dugdale made £30,000 leaving her constituents for the jungle

    202. schrodingers cat says:

      some clarification

      Mhairi Hunter @MhairiHunter
      Firstly let’s put this in context. In the 99 election all of our sitting MPs stood for Holyrood. Subsequently the only sitting MP who did so was Alex. There was a compelling reason for this – he was our leader and standing to be First Minister.

      The situation now is different. The NEC was considering whether MPs could stand for Holyrood because essentially they had changed their minds. I should say at this juncture that all the focus is on one MP but I understand a number would be interested if it was allowed.

      People have a perfect right to change their minds, but potential WM by-elections following a Holyrood election would be a significant demand on public & party resources, not just financially but also human resources.

      Remember also that SP & WM boundaries are not coterminous, so potentially the group of members who selected a sitting MP as their candidate would not be the exact same group of members who subsequently had to finance & fight any ensuing by-election.

      The decision the NEC came to was not to block MPs from standing but to require them to resign if they were selected, so that the by-election could be held on the same day as the Holyrood vote. This minimises additional demands on resources for both the public & the party.

      On balance I agree with this. There are a lot of what-ifs here. If only one MP decided to stand it might be manageable. But if more than one was selected – and there would be nothing to stop any number being selected if it was allowed – it would be less so.

      People may take a different view on it, as they are entitled to. But the NEC position is not unreasonable, even if you disagree. There must be some balance struck between individual choice, which is important, and the demands on the wider party & the public purse.

      Finally this was a tough gig for NEC members who are all volunteers and work very hard for the party. People may disagree with their decision but they should respect their authority to make it, which is given to them by party members.

    203. CameronB Brodie says:

      @MhairiHunter supports the GRA amendments, so how reliable is her opinion?

    204. Rab Dickson says:

      Mhairi Hunter has become an inveterate talker of shite.

    205. Bob Mack says:

      “Authority given to them by party members”. Important to mention however they should have discussed the change at conference or consulted members as appropriate. They just went ahead and did it anyway. It wasn’t really their decision to make

      Is that not the case?

    206. schrodingers cat says:

      LeggyPeggy says:
      Did you read the archive link to her column ? She only mentions Jackson Carlaw’s resignation .

      ————–

      no surprises there peggy.

      thats why i support the idea of mps resigning from wm to stand in holyrood, it will highlight douglas ross’s hypocrasy

      not sure about necs rules though, this is the most important election ever, i think they should have pushed out the boat.

      also, cherry and whitford are pretty good candidates, they underestimate their own pulling power. I think they could take down quite a few of the unionist constituencies. there is a risk, no question but maybe it is time for everyone to risk it?

    207. schrodingers cat says:

      I was unaware of her post this morning, i blocked her ages ago.:)

      but i think this description sounds correct.

    208. dakk says:

      @bipod

      You could do with some of this

      How they deal with #COVIDIOTS in India. https://t.co/lnio76gdFa

    209. schrodingers cat says:

      @bob

      im not sure i disagree with them resigning once they have been selected as candidate for their holyrood constituencies and holding the by elections for wm on the same day

      i dont see how this is a problem for their wm staff, both cherry and whitford have large majorities so their staff would most likely only be unemployed for the duration of the campaign.

      its a risk, but if it works everyone is a winner

      mhairi hunter mentioned more than one mp wanting to do this, i wonder who else wants to stand?

    210. Tannadice Boy says:

      I think we should rename this blog this Schrodingers Cat blog. I believe we are at a crossroads in Scottish Politics which is why after a few years I have started to read WOS again. I prefer to read the articles only but have taken to read the comments recently. My conclusion I won’t be voting SNP at the constituency level. I will vote for an alternative Indy party on the list party. I am politically homeless on the constituency vote. And there is nothing the Cat can say that will prevent that outcome. A Sturgeon plant, GRA, Hate crime bill, stitching up Salmond no thanks all the same. My cross is sanctcrosanct and goes where I want it to go.

    211. Walter Jones says:

      Cat/Bungo/Pete

      Away and meet your english minder and give him the latest info on Scottish Independence.

      Ya creepy wee spy.

      Would you tell the Cat/Bungo any secrets???

      Naw, neither would I.

      But Cat/Bungo/Pete would sell his Granny for an Ermine Robe.

    212. schrodingers cat says:

      suit yersel’ tannadice boy

      but as a saints supporter, if you cant beat 10 men when 1 up,

      reliving your nightmare again real soon 🙂

    213. Walter Jones says:

      Cat n Pete

      Burgess and McLean

    214. iain mhor says:

      @Michael Laing 6:40pm

      Yes all those points appear obvious which is why I covered them. So, no point in looking to a majority of SNP MP’s at Westminster as a route to Indy – that might be one takeaway no? All of a sudden it’s ‘Nobody wants to be stuck at Westminster.

      I covered the potential importance (or not) of the move, the focus on achieving the points you listed and to what ultimate end.
      Focussed, but not quite focussed enough to stand anyway – there was very little bar for someone of Joanna’s calibre standing, whatever the ruling.
      I asked why might she might have stood down and don’t have an answer; I have Ms Cherry’s answer, which, though I found it laudably humanitarian, I also found a bit illogical – it may have cost her a return to Hoylrood.

      Tactically it may, or may not have been astute, the u-turns and vacillation while Mr Robertson got his mojo on – I covered that – because if its vital for Ms Cherry to get into Holyrood (and most seem to believe it is) then I’m interested in how vital Ms Cherry thinks it is.

      In short – I take an interest and when someone tells me there is a hero charging to the rescue – in light of all the other ‘heroes’ now lying in sheughs – I take an even closer look. If only to try and discern if it’s merely another career move, or it’s someone with a definite plan of action for Independence.
      Fool me once and all that. I reserve the right to scrutinise every single one of them for motive, with an intense scrute.

      But, yes, I often have some difficulty expressing my cogitations clearly, quite obviously.

    215. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Walter Jones.

      You’re a bit of a tit, iye?

      You have no real opinion to put forward; you only suggest the machinations of your own imagination.

      Good night. Will scroll by, if Rev Stu allows to remain as a “reader”.

    216. Beaker says:

      I think I posted last week that I thought there would be a stalking horse. I think it is Robertson, but not in the “normal” manner expected in politics.

      Has he become the sacrificial lamb in order to bugger up any chance of Cherry threatening Sturgeon’s position? Cherry is smart enough, but she could have been outmanoeuvred with internal politics. Remember that Robertson has been there for years. Perhaps a nice little reward for him after next May. Possibly the CEO position? That would suit Sturgeon, as she could then dismiss any criticism of the party being led by “the family”.

    217. MorvenM says:

      Iain MacWhirter’s article in the Herald on the Hate Crimes Bill.

      https://archive.is/k3DZ9#selection-1753.140-1753.283

      For those of you enthusing about my MP, Tommy Sheppard, I’m sorry to say he’s signed the OutForIndy declaration, which puts him firmly on the side of the wokebros, so he won’t be getting my vote again.

    218. dakk says:

      “which puts him firmly on the side of the wokebros, so he won’t be getting my vote again.”

      Here we go.

    219. Effijy says:

      I keep getting WhstsApp messages about Tory MP Mark Francois?

      What on earth could have have raised his profile?

    220. Clapper57 says:

      A Tory MP arrested on suspicion of rape will not be suspended from the party while investigations are ongoing, the party’s whips’ office has said.

      A spokesman said the allegations were “serious” and “it is right that they are investigated fully”.

      Apparently the chief whip had spoken to the alleged victim long before this MP was arrested and indeed before this story broke in the newspapers…..but nothing was done and the chief whip said that was because he did not know the seriousness of the allegations…

      Really ?….He spoke to the alleged victim and like she didn’t tell him….oh YEH that’s credible…NOT.

      Sweep Sweep Sweep…it’s the Tory way.

    221. MorvenM says:

      The Scottish National Lobotomy by Bonnie Prince Bob:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=YiTYKjKg73s&feature=emb_logo

    222. defo says:

      MF was a minister?

    223. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Has anyone managed to secure a ticket for An Audience With Doug Daniel tomorrow evening?

      Gold dust!

      😉

    224. schrodingers cat says:

      @ianbh

      lol, aw’budy loves a trier

      have you joined the snp?

    225. schrodingers cat says:

      defo says:
      MF was a minister?

      —————

      generally it isnt a good idea to threaten the head of the british armed forces.

      at the very least he’ll get a permanent place in a barrel 🙂

    226. Tannadice Boy says:

      At any point has Schrodingers Cat declared himself/herself as a St Johnstone supporter?. Anywhere?. Any post?. Remarkable coincidence.

    227. robertknight says:

      Robertson…

      Methinks the “gentleman” doth protest too much.

      Never thought I’d see the day I’d simply stay at home rather than go to a polling booth. Thanks to current events, that day is fast approaching.

    228. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @SC –

      I’m genuinely curious. Not being an SNP member isn’t a crime now, or is it? I just want to see the highlights.

    229. Dogbiscuit says:

      Morven your YouTube link was excellent. All SNP shills should get the punchline right up them.
      By the way anyone any chance that this ‘lockdown’ with its false sense of emergency will end soon?
      Will we ever be free again ?
      Can you see the connection between SNP and Tory Governments?
      Their ‘common purpose’ ?

    230. schrodingers cat says:

      @tannadice boy

      I was born in leith, brought up in perth, went to the high school etc

      everyone has to come from somewhere.

      saw saints play st etienne at muirton park in 1971.

      i saw ally macoist come on as a sub for his first game for the saintees at gayfield in arbroath.

      perhaps i havent mentioned it before. mainly cos this isnt a football blog

    231. Dogbiscuit says:

      No no don’t give the crown to me you know I wish only to serve the people.

    232. schrodingers cat says:

      @ianbh

      i think the talk is for branch members. i doubt it will be filmed ??

    233. Tannadice Boy says:

      Good Cat your close to me. A bonus

    234. schrodingers cat says:

      sv hamburgh, not st etienne

    235. MorvenM says:

      Effijy says:

      “I keep getting WhstsApp messages about Tory MP Mark Francois?

      What on earth could have have raised his profile?”

      He’s apparently now shut down his Twitter and Facebook accounts.

      No idea why he would do that.

    236. Walter Jones says:

      Cat/Pete

      Your cat flap is opened,,,now fuck off and stop pestering everybody with your speed dial posting.

      You are pissing off about 90% of contributors.

      Jesus God man,,,take the hint.

      If not, I can see the Rev throwing you off his website for being a persistent pain in the arse.

    237. Tannadice Boy says:

      The cat googled it wrong. Ah well
      If he/she went to Perth high school I am my Aunties Uncle. I voted for Indy in 2014 as did all my family. I am now actively not going to vote SNP. My family its up to them. Not looking good though..

    238. schrodingers cat says:

      everyone gotta come from somewhere TB

    239. Kenny says:

      Two rather strange things.

      1. Why does “the official LGBTQ+ wing of @theSNP” have a gmail address?

      Out4Indy [at] gmail [dot] com

      Damage limitation?

      2. If you look at the SNP website, there is nothing on independence any more. Only if you scroll down news, but the freshest article is April 2019, which is 16 months ago.

      It is all about “Scotland’s Recovery”. But that is in addition to a separate section on “Coronavirus” (why does a political party need a whole section on that?).

      So I think it will be a bit rich if the SNP campaign on “independence” in 2021, when they are clearly not interested in it at all.

      If you were to list the following parties in order of their commitment to independence, based on what you find in their website, you would rank them as follows:

      1. SSP
      2. Solidarity
      3. Greens
      4. SNP

      I think it is quite clear that the SNP is the “Scottish Coronavirus Party”… and nowt else… besides cancelling women (weird why they are not cancelling men) and cancelling freedom of speech, of course.

    240. Jimmy Jo says:

      Sky News headlines:

      “UK schools will open in September”

      Where’s the SNP press officer’s who are meant to be monitoring what the english media say?

      Just lazy ignorant reporting, and this isn’t the only piece of fake news today.

      Their bulletins are full of false statements regarding separating english only news items.

      Get your finger out SNP and start correcting the lies we have to listen to on a daily basis.

    241. CameronB Brodie says:

      ” think it is quite clear that the SNP is the “Scottish Coronavirus Party”… and nowt else… besides cancelling women (weird why they are not cancelling men) and cancelling freedom of speech, of course.”

      Patriarchy is misogynistic in nature, so you can’t really expect a male dominated culture to hand men the shitty end of the stick. Despite significant progress, Scotland is still a patriarchal society. The GRA amendments and the Hate Crime bill intend turning the clock back on social progress, by institutionalising sexist gender stereotypes.

      Patriarchy and Women’s Gender Ideology: A Socio-Cultural Perspective
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/49619845_Patriarchy_and_Women's_Gender_Ideology_A_Socio-Cultural_Perspective

    242. Tannadice Boy says:

      Cameron B..I have little idea of what you are talking about. I give my wife and kids everything. To the extent I have probably shortened my life. I would like to live in a society that cared about men.

    243. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tannadice Boy
      I’m not suggesting all Scots men are dicks, though there are a few. However, men tend to dominate the top positions in business, get paid more for the same jobs, and stuff like that.

    244. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t hate men, I watched my dad work himself into the ground to make sure there was food on the table. I’m just aware that the feminist movement has not achieved women’s social parity with men yet.

      On Patriarchy: Gender Ideologies
      On the changing attitudes. Part Two of a series.

      “Is Feminism Dead?” queried Time Magazine on June 24, 1998. No, but it did diversify from the Second Wave. In her Modern Feminist Thought (1995) I. Whelehan discussed the fracturing of feminism into component strands: black feminism, lesbian, liberal, radical, socialist (Marxist) and post-feminism.

      And in Third Wave Feminism (2007) the editors (S. Gillis et al) added even more: anti-feminism, male feminism, cyber-feminism, eco-feminism, hegemony, and more. Clearly, feminism moved away from misandry and victim feminism to explore other issues and become feminisms, plural. And it is much more nuanced. More women and more men (notably Michael Kimmel) became involved in the struggles for equal rights and power….

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/rethinking-men/201906/patriarchy-gender-ideologies

    245. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. If women were truly equal with men, you wouldn’t have men trying to tell women what being a woman is all about, and dictate the legal meaning of womanhood.

    246. Tannadice Boy says:

      I refer you to my previous comment. Dads and Grandads have given their all. Time to stop demonising them. Yes I made a lot of money but I missed out on a lot. The first smile, the first wee walk, the first speech usually mum etc. I would have traded my career for seeing some of this… so talk of a patriarchy is lost on me. My wife had a better life than me. But I paid for it.

    247. Robert Graham says:

      Morgan.M thanks for posting this clip well worth a wider Audience .

      Getting Alan Bissitt vibes if not very similar, again great clip for the ones who are blindly following

    248. Very much enjoying Matt Taibbi’s recent writings on the huge open-air insane asylum that the USA now is. Interesting to see how much of the criticism of ‘condescension’ in liberal America can be transferred to our very own condescending government of rogues, crackpots, personal-agenda-wavers, and loonies.

      https://taibbi.substack.com/p/kansas-should-go-f-itself?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo1OTM0ODc2LCJwb3N0X2lkIjo4MDM3MjksIl8iOiJSMVVQRCIsImlhdCI6MTU5NjQwODczNiwiZXhwIjoxNTk2NDEyMzM2LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTA0MiIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.iyT7NmcRqgxwYDKLGSCAHjc5Egun62aNi_gG_hrjcjo

    249. Robert Graham says:

      Tanadice boy
      Yep been there , tee shirt , book you name it it’s only when you get older you realise you got the shitty end of the stick boy ah well that’s life eh

    250. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tannadice Boy
      As I said, I don’t hate men, I’m one myself. My dad also wished he hadn’t missed out on so much of my early life, because of what his economic commitments demanded of him. I’m not demonizing men, I’m simply trying to help defend women from the effects of patriarchy, which hurts the poor and destroys the planet.

    251. Tannadice Boy says:

      Robert Graham says.

      Cheers thought it was just me!

    252. Saltire says:

      I haven’t been a member of the SNP since 2005, but I’ve continued to vote for the party since then. Prior to resigning (for personal reasons) I had been a branch and constituency office bearer, election agent and activist for many years.

      The progress the party has made since then has been nothing short of outstanding. I thought we were doing phenomenally well in moving from fourth to second place in Cunninghame North at the time. But where Scotland is now reflects well on everyone who was, or is, a member or voter for the party.

      There are others who support independence who are members or voters for other parties and that is extremely healthy. However, can anyone honestly say that any other vehicle than the SNP has taken us this far? I do not believe that the existence of the WoS website or the Wee Blue Book have done more or even come close. Whilst the marches for independence have been great in demonstrating the level of support with a friendly, inclusive approach in comparison to the racist thugs and bigots holding “counter protests”, pageant will not win, votes will.

      Recent events surrounding the SNP have shown the extremes of human frailty, failures of trust, poor governance processes, broken or wounded friendships and some days of reckoning ahead. That serves only to strengthen the unionist cause, but we shall see where things take us and hope that the damage to the cause is minimal.

      I know Nicola Sturgeon, her mother and father. Anyone who does not believe that Nicola fully believes in independence is as correct as Brian Wilson is popular with SNP members.

      Since leaving the SNP, I’ve been fortunate enough to enjoy a reasonably successful career in the Oil and Gas then Utility sectors working with colleagues across the globe, so I genuinely understand many of the missed and future opportunities for Scotland.

      For me, Independence is not a single event it is a process, which I believe Alex Salmond said. We are now is in a position where polling shows independence is consistently favoured by a majority of 54% to 45% or so. That has not been the position until recently. Division in the independence movement is manna from heaven for a lazy unionist media which they will use to undermine that polling.

      I am now seriously considering my position and may re-join the SNP. I fear that too many in the independence movement haven’t grasped the complexity of unbundling from the union and engaging with the world in our own right. We must be able to credibly demonstrate, to those whose votes are needed to secure independence, that even with those challenges independence best for Scotland.

      I genuinely believe that this is about timing. Indyref2 needs to be a winning referendum or the campaign will be put to the backburner for many, many years. I also believe that Nicola Sturgeon has understood the timing of events better than most on this site. I give her credit for that and I still trust her judgement.

      I want independence right now, but the practicalities are not that simple, I can wait 2-3 years more for success rather than endure a shambolic half-cocked pseudo effort that loses my chance to live in an independent Scotland.

    253. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m what happens when you take a lad from a pretty ordinary background, and train him in feminist jurisprudence and transcendental informed legal realism.

      Harvard Journal of Law & Gender [Vol. 35, 2012]
      FEMINIST LEGAL REALISM

      https://harvardjlg.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/19/2012/02/feminist-legal-realism.pdf

    254. Jimmy Jo says:

      Morven M 10.08pm

      Brilliant video, well worth a watch everyone.

      The guy nails the state of Scotland at this moment in time brilliantly.

      Don’t know who he is, but should become more mainstream.

    255. Bob Mack says:

      @Saltire,

      Thanks for the explanstion of our lack of of grasp of the facts.

      However, sadly, we seem able to judge for ourselves who is pushing the Independence agenda and it is not Nicola Sturgeon nice lady that she is. We also watch as the SNP self indulges in the pet projects very few of its members seems to want.

      Scheming,plotting,dismissive governance is not a good look unless you agree with that. I dont.

      There is a clique allowed to go unchallenged within the party.
      They are abusive. They are duplicitous and they are destructive. Nicola permits to happen to the consternation of ordinary members.

      When a party rides roughshod over its members that is problematic. You join if you wish. I will rejoin when they have been forced to deal with the issues which have come to light.

    256. Tannadice Boy says:

      Cam B

      Cam B
      Scotland is no longer an Adam country. Hasn’t been for a long time. Waken up. If there is no stake in a future Indy Scotland for men it will never happen because we represent 50 percent of the voters. Experience in life trumps academic papers everytime. A future Indy Scotland won’t happen with Sturgeon in charge says a Salmond man. Replace the Scottish Goverment SNP leadership and then maybe…

    257. Beaker says:

      @defo says:
      2 August, 2020 at 10:11 pm
      “MF was a minister?”

      He’s held a few posts, then resigned under Theresa May. He’s currently head of the ERG.

    258. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tannadice Boy
      Come on man, men are trying to determine what it is to be a woman, and the SNP are helping them. Scots law hasn’t gotten around to defining legal protection for our economic, social, or cultural rights, and our parliament is subordinate to a parliament in another nation. We already lack access to human rights, and Brexit consolidates our legal vulnerability. So I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that Scottish society is “just”.

      We are in agreement though, the shower currently running the SNP must go.

    259. Beaker says:

      Oops, clicked the wrong button hence double post, apologies.

      MF is trending at Number 4 on Twitter. No idea why.

    260. Tannadice Boy says:

      Cam B

      Men trying to determine what it is to be a woman. Try again. It’s the SNP that are trying to do that. You are in the bubble. I am not. Hence I speak from real experience. The two sexes can get along fine without too much interference. My point was simple the men are already getting the shitty end of the stick to quote an earlier respondent.

    261. Robert Graham says:

      Saltire
      Sorry can’t agree with your comment a lot of people here more intelligent than me understand the complexities of dissolving this Union, moreover you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. it’s been pointed out on more than one occasion , not in the last few weeks but in the last 5 or 6 years the missed opportunities , the abject failure of pressing and haranguing this Tory government, the comfortable existence of a lot of MPs and MSPs coupled with a disturbing lack of progress is really bloody annoying folks here , I believe I can say most folk here have one object in mind Independence and it’s obvious the governing party have forgotten Why we spent time and money in order for this to happen, everyone has seen and witnessed the ones who actually do and the ones who coast along i.e. The Passengers , right now the SNP have been identified as the Passengers And The Crew ain’t ducking happy .

    262. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tannadice Boy
      The SNP didn’t invent genderwoowoo but they’ve guzzled the kool-aid. Yes men are getting the shaft but we are still socially positioned above women.

      Gender Stratification and Inequality
      The Origins of Patriarchy

      https://courses.lumenlearning.com/cochise-sociology-os/chapter/the-origins-of-patriarchy/

    263. Robert Graham says:

      Tanadice boy

      Nope join the gang

      The gang being the ones who actually worked paid taxes got up at 3-4-5 in the morning and got home when the kids were sleeping , I often joked to my wife she had better show the kids my photo just in case they forgot who I was,

      Anyway this gang who enabled these useless tossers who sit on their arses thinking up various little entertaining subjects GRA and dreaded hate bill because they think it’s important, they are important Aye important to who princess,
      meanwhile all over Scotland the same gang of men and Women don’t get me wrong a lot of bloody hard working women get a raw deal every day but don’t go shouting poor me poor me get a ducking grip duchess you ain’t that precious .
      This Late Night Rant was brought to you by Glove the hand care and moisturiser specialists .

    264. iain mhor says:

      @Beaker 9:44pm

      Well, hardly sacrificial, though if you mean wrenched relunctantly from his current gig with Progress Scotland, back into mainstream politics at Holyrood, then sure why not.

      Funny thing is, Joanna Cherry wasn’t that hot on Progress Scotland and felt the SNP needed a broader brush of dialogue (Faster Indyref or PlanB) NS was a big fan of Progress Scotland and its evidence based (?) steady approach.

      It may be that Angus standing, is to protect his baby and ideology from the interference of Joanna (and anyone else who would push independence faster & harder) than both his and Nicola’s steady, poll driven approach.
      Nicola wanting to block Joanna from grasping her throne is more a twofer deal you might say.

      I can’t see Mr Murrell standing aside for anyone, though I can see Nicola doing so for health reasons. In which case, is his ultimate position to be FM/Leader (as many seem to think) If not, well I can’t really think of a role he’d be happy with – unless John Swinney gets pumped as deputy.

      If anything, there is an argument that Angus has always been more a danger to Nicola’s crown than Joanna ever was. I’d be more interested in what kept Angus at bay from the FM job all this time – maybe you’re right, maybe his price really is the CEO position, there’s little else he needs.

      Chances to land an MSP or MP gig, are not that thick on the ground though and just being an MSP is reward enough probably and I think Angus is still a member of the Privy Council (?) so he’s not too shy of honours to need another sinecure.

      Or maybe he really is some mad establishment sleeper, turned in his time on the intelligence and security committee and up to all sorts of Machiavlian deeds – nowadays, who the fuck knows.

    265. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tannadice Boy
      No offense taken btw, but I don’t live in a bubble. I have worked shitty manual labour, run my own business, been to a pub, and even had sex. 🙂

      British constitutionalism denies Scotland political AGENCY, in pretty much the same way as genderwoowoo aims to undermine the social AGENCY of natural born women. This is largely due to Westminster being a racist patriarchy.

      Journal of Small Business Management 2019 57(2), pp. 517–537
      Entrepreneurial Leadership, Patriarchy, Gender,
      and Identity in the Arab World: Lebanon in Focus

      In this paper, we apply insights from poststructuralist feminist theory to contribute to entrepreneurial leadership. By drawing on 21 individual narratives with Lebanese women entrepreneurs, we explore how they determine their status as entrepreneurial leaders and establish their entrepreneurial
      identities.

      Although the factors of gender, sociocultural values, and agency can be counteractive, it is agency that creates space for entrepreneurship for women and provides them a means to navigate structural inequalities. The entrepreneurs in this study engage in compliance, disregard, and defiance strategies to expand the boundaries of what is socially permissible for women and to strengthen their identities.

      This research contributes to studies on entrepreneurial leadership and aids in the development of theory by demonstrating how Arab women construct entrepreneurial leadership, agency, and identity at the juncture of patriarchy, sociocultural values, and gender ideologies.

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/jsbm.12397

    266. The minute I see the word ‘patriarchy,’ I know somebody has views not worth listening to. It’s a nonexistent abstraction, like ‘god,’ to give feminists something to eternally rail against that can never be achieved/destroyed, and also can be blamed for any and all failures involving women these days, more specifically middle class women. Because you may have noticed that nobody takes responsibility for their own actions and/or failures anymore, it’s all somebody else’s fault. And more and more these days, that fault is lumped exclusively and disgustingly onto the shoulders of men. Or, even more specifically, white men. Or even more specifically yet, white working class men, who are the utter pariahs of the earth now. We’re racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, hobophobic, homophonic, logophobic, hebephrenic, phobophobic. We exhibit unconscious bias, conscious bias, half-conscious bias. We are the only colour of man in all human history to have been involved in slavery. Our country needs torn up from the roots up to accommodate the America-obsessed self-obsessed agenda-waving ministrations of a government of halfwits and extremist fools who hate men. ‘Patriarchy’? Suck my disdain.

    267. CameronB Brodie says:

      WhoRattledYourCage
      “The minute I see the word ‘patriarchy,’ I know somebody has views not worth listening to.”

      That’s just not a particularly enlightened perspective, frankly.

      Sociology Vol. 30, No. 4, pp. 639 – 659, November 1996.
      GENDER AND CLASS REVISITED: OR, THE POVERTY OF
      ‘PATRIARCHY’

      http://www.iuc.hr/IucAdmin/Server/downloads/PollertPatry.pdf

    268. defo says:

      Cheers Beaker

    269. Effijy says:

      You will love this!

      Tory Government Minister on TV news talking about Covid being declared a Major Incident in the Manchester area, due to rapidly increasing new cases, however, he encourages people to support the local restaurants there and if your health forced you into shielding, you must now try to return to work and help the UK economy?

      He said major incident just means the police have some additional powers of enforcement, powers the police say they just can’t police?

      Help!
      What does 2 + 2 make now?

      England constantly votes for these people ?

    270. Gullane No 4 says:

      It is pretty obvious to me that we need a regional second vote party that will work with the SNP.
      The SNP executive seem to be against this plan for reasons I do not understand.
      The YES movement would be the natural choice for second vote so what is stopping this from happening other than infighting with the many smaller groups.
      The whole is always mightier that the parts within.

    271. Ottomanboi says:

      Effijy 07.53
      There is apparently an ethnic ie South Asian element in these ‘spikes’ as there is in the English Midlands.
      It is incorrect to mention that the general health of that community is measurably poorer.
      The majority must be made to continue to suffer ‘suppression’ regardless.
      Then there are the ‘poor whites’, but they are not supposed to exist in the British welfare state.
      This OECD report from 2019 highlights the true causes of Covid-19 mortality, poor general health.
      https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/4dd50c09-en/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/4dd50c09-en

    272. jfngw says:

      I keep reading that Self-I was in the 2016 SNP manifesto, so I decided to read it. This is the only section referring to transgender, no mention of self-id, just a lot of woolly words and that well worn ‘best international practice’ obfuscation. Below is the complete section, I can’t find any other reference in the diocument.

      Tolerance, respect, inclusion – these are attitudes and principles we want to encourage and foster in modern, fairer Scotland. Enabling young people to make informed choices about their gender and sexual identity is about supporting them to be themselves so that they might fulfil their potential.

      We recognise that Scotland has come a long way on issues such as LGBTI recognition, but that we have further to go. We expect all new guidance and promoted teachers – and eventually all teachers – to undertake training on equality, so they are confident in tackling prejudice-based bullying. We will provide additional funding where required.

      We will work towards every professional working with children being trained on equality, to help address prejudice-based bullying, attachment, child development and child protection.

      A distinctive part of our equal marriage law was our more progressive approach to Transgender recognition which allows married transgender people to obtain a full Gender Recognition Certificate, and stay married. We must now build on this to help end discrimination. We will review and reform gender recognition law, so it’s in line with international best practice for people who are Transgender or Intersex.

      And we will build on and improve the standalone protocol that’s been developed in Scotland for people seeking gender reassignment, which has provided a clearer and consistent treatment pathway that is equitable, effective, and patient-focussed.

    273. Breeks says:

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2020/08/02/battle-for-the-snp-and-scotland/

      I think this is fairly accurate… if a little ‘forgiving’and simplistic… but still very much worth reading.

      I’m not in the SNP, so my perspective is a second hand one, and I might well be wrong, but it seems to me there is a missing component in the article. It occurs to me, that with a few noteable exceptions, the “fundamentalists” within the SNP have been consistently patient and accommodating with the wishes of the “gradualists”.

      (With myself being a self declared Maverick and radicle constitutionalist, this patience with such glaciel progress has driven me up the wall at times).

      I’m not sure you can say the same about the “gradualists”, who have proven themselves very intolerant of dissent, and quite comfortable scheming and conspiring behind closed doors to denounce and damage some very noteable “fundamentalists” in what seems a sinister and orchestrated attempt to oust fundamentalists from positions of control and influence. Gradualism it seems, has a dark side which I think it’s fair to say, fundamentalism does not.

      However I also feel “the times they are a changing”. The patience of the fundamentalists is now wearing very thin. Their anger might well be with the underhand scheming of the Trans-radicle infiltrators who seem to have a stranglehold on the SNP at a strategic level, but at this stage, even a purge or ‘clear oot’ of the dysfuntionals in SNP hierarchy will not go far enough to put the now disgruntled fundamentalists back in their ‘patience’ box.

      Just for the record, I don’t know that using factional labels like “gradualist” and “fundamentalist” does anything except polarise people’s attitudes, so I’m only using the terms because the article does.

      The point I’m trying to make is that there is no essential difference or incompatability between a gradualist and a fundamentalist. We both want the same thing – Scottish Independence. We are merely separate Divisions in the same army, and when push comes to shove will fight to the death side by side, complimenting each other like a division of cavalry augments the strength of an infantry Division. One Division walks, one Division charges in on horseback.

      I think it’s important to understand the toxin which currently threatens our cohesion does not come from the doctrines of gradualism or fundamentalism, but from the sinister self-serving element within the SNP hierarchy which has infiltrated our good cause and sought to manipulate it for their own ends.

      Their indifference, dare I say it, sociopathic indifference towards to throwing Scottish Independence and the champions of Independence under a bus is all the proof you need to know these people are dangerous and should have no platform in our struggle for Independence from which they can launch nasty underhand attacks of people they don’t like, and generally corrupt our cohesion and capacity to communicate with each other in good conscience, even when we disagree.

      In 2014, there were many players exasperated with each other, and exchanging some very cross words. (Remember the stoushie when Rev Stu had wingers going to Better Together meetings to count attendees?) but abrasive arguments back then never had the nasty resonance that this Rasputin-like Wokish element has injected these past 5 years under Nicola Sturgeon.

    274. Effijy says:

      Ottomanboi

      There have been 10’s thousands of Covid deaths that involve white
      People who were regarded as being in good health?

      Sure the sick and BAME are more vulnerable but the virus is capable
      Of killing the least likely of people.

      You seen so many active medics dying in the line of duty,
      You seen marathon runners in rude health fall to Covid.

    275. Dan says:

      UK progressing further towards a dictatorship. C’mon Scotland, we really don’t want to be stuck in a system like this.

      https://twitter.com/premnsikka/status/1290041115366711297

      Big plane, carries big stuff, for big assholes.

      https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1290192917881999360

    276. Stuart MacKay says:

      Ottomanboi

      The assumption is that the virus washes over a population like a wave. That might be true for others but it’s not the case with COVID. The best analogy is forest fires. Clusters pop up here an there with no obvious connection between them. Different segments of an area get affected at different times. It’s the reason the lock-downs are extensive, prolonged and in some areas quite ineffective.

      Also, I saw when the Leicester outbreak first happened, the MSM had no shame in singling out the garment factories owned and staffed by mainly British people of South Asian origin. The intention of creating animosity towards non-whites was blatant and shameful.

    277. Big Jock says:

      I think the root of the problem is the new members of the SNP, and new converts to independence.

      They just don’t have the same beliefs that most of us have. We are in the SNP because we believe in independence. They joined the SNP because it was cool and there was an element of some kind of Utopian dream.

      I couldn’t care less about all other agendas. I care about independence, because without independence it’s just pissing in the wind.

      The SNP under Salmond were right to place themselves as a left of centre party. It was a catch all strategy, and it worked. Because Salmond knew that to win independence the SNP could not be too left or too right. I still believe this strategy is the right one. But no it appears the SNP is becoming a party of Micro-Opinions. The people that will destroy the dream are the people who don’t understand the dream.

      We all believe in the vision of independence, it’s our number one priority. For others there are personal opinions which are causing conflicts within the SNP. These people will hinder our progress to independence. They must be removed from the barrel before they rot the whole party.

    278. mike cassidy says:

      As schools prepare to reopen

      A tale from the Covid Frontline

      http://archive.is/gmelI

    279. Bob Mack says:

      There is a very old Hebrew saying which is

      “Opinions founded in prejudice are always sustained with the greatest violence”.

      Just look at some of the postings in the article. This group within the SNP fit exactly that description. They represent a group who have physically attacked women both physically and verbally for having concerns about female rights.

      This is not make believe. It’s what they do.

      Get the SNP welcome them into their ranks and indeed soothe their path to positions within the party where they can be most destructive. This is just insane.

      Would the SNP welcome me and promote me if I started to threaten English or Welsh or N Irish folk to gain my rights of freedom?

      I think not. Why then do they let this group represent the party on these issues.? It is ridiculous.

    280. Stuart MacKay says:

      Breeks,

      The labels might not be helpful but the categories are useful. It’s gross simplification but you could describe “gradualists” as people who want to build the country before flicking the independence switch and “fundamentalists” want to flick the switch and then build the country.

      Gradualism is good for building support in an uncertain population but it is vulnerable to two things: the availability of time and the desire for the gradualists to maintain their position post-independence.

      Fundamentalism is good for getting the job done so everybody can then go on an start building the country but it’s a bit of a moon-shot and carries a high penalty if it fails. There is also a risk of post-independence chaos which could turn ugly – though in this case there appear to be few dark undercurrents that might surface to cause trouble.

      Both approaches are vulnerable to agents provocateurs as we see being played out before us.

      However the basic categorisation is at least a basis for discussion. You could have a rational debate on the merits of either and even choose a strategy that mixes the two together. That would seem to put us in a much better and stronger position than having infighting and a swirl of crazy notions of why the project is not moving forward.

    281. Stuart MacKay says:

      … A mixed approach would seem to be ideal. Saying that Scotland will be standing on it’s own two feet in 5, 10, etc. years should at least focus the minds of people on either side of the decision and force a plan to be put in place.

    282. Clapper57 says:

      @ defo on 2 August @ 10.11pm

      “MF was a minister”

      Yes defo, but he gave up the cloth to take up the Froth.

      Froth : worthless or insubstantial talk, ideas, or activities.

      On a serious note….it’s not the fact that he was a minister that is unbelievable but the fact that he has been elected…more than once …as an MP…..might be a good idea to cross off the area that elected him from any potential holiday list……unless you have a yearning to hear someone sitting on a porch…playing Duelling banjos….mind you I heard he offered them Deliverance at the constituency hustings…so yes he is a bit of a Preacher…..or rather a PARSON who is PEAR shaped in an English WalNUT TREE…..

      Have a nice day

    283. willie says:

      Another good commentary from Iain Lawson.

      The point about not quitting the party but staying torefocus and reinvigorate it sound.

      The SNP is about independence. It is in our blood. That is why we are members. Let us get back to that. Nothing less, and for the careerist manipulators they will be gone.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2020/08/03/whoops/

    284. mike cassidy says:

      A possible insight in to how the Hate Crime Bill might operate.

      What the police are doing is allowing themselves to become accomplices to those who themselves wish to harass others — anyone with a grudge can make repeated complaints of ‘hate’. The suspect is not told.

      http://archive.is/S2f7c

    285. orri says:

      @mike cassidy

      The police there demonstrating the essential pitfall of any record keeping they do. And that it isn’t just in Scotland where the record keeping could break Data Protection laws, that we may lose when our current human rights are abolished to make way for the proposed British Bill of Rights.

      However I thought both the Police and Judiciary have both raised concerns over the proposed legislation.

      Essentially the “Fact Checking” mentions a rise in complaints as a justification for laws that would mean that given enough time the sheer volume of those complaints would mean that what they’d complained about became illegal. That’s the justification for the law, because there’s more complaints those complaints mean that what’s being complained about is likely to cause offence in which case it’s illegal. Say that you think Zarkwan was never going to turn up till the last minute and you could annoy enough of his devoted followers to end up in prison.

    286. Clapper57 says:

      It’s a wee shame yon Douglas Ross on Saturday launching his leadership campaign for the Tories in the branch office…and then Sacre Bleu ….ANOTHER piece of Tory sh*t hits the fan to undermine his wee event in the news that a serious sexual allegation has been made against one of his political colleagues….so serious the MP was ARRESTED….mind you the Tories dinnae think it’s THAT important cause the MP in question hasnae had the Whip removed…..note…always remove a WHIP in sexual assault allegations….ask any Domin*trix

      Vote for Ross Tory boy….oh wait a minute …..forget that sheeite….here’s another Tory boy allegedly a naughty one like yon Charie Elphicke…..

      Vote for Tory Ross….from the party who campaign by throwing stones from their Glass houses….main message is Do as WE say not as WE do…..

      Ross has enlisted a tag team of Tits in Ruth D and Michael Gove…you know Michael he’s the one that supports you then stabs you in the back if he sees a benefit for himself…aided by his minder…the wife….Michael was a Goldfish in a previous life…and looking at him as a human you can see he , in this life, did not completely morph as he still has some distinctive facial features he had in his previous life…..he does not BOWL me over ……

      Ruth D resigned as leader of the branch office…but has now deployed the Yeh But No But Yeh Tory tactic of mixed messages in returning to mind the local shop for a presumptuous Douglas….or as they say in Tory circles….a Shoo in….I believe they are considering a Monkey, Donkey and a Squirrel ( squirrel helps deflect) to stand against him in the leadership Contest NOT contest…….meanwhile Michelle Ballantyne still bilin at the thought of LOSING to Jackson who himself LOST out as HQ gave him his P45……sorry meant when he resigned…she hasn’t BECOME bitter…because she has always BEEN bitter…Bitter Together indeed.

      This is not a political party but a Soap opera …..

    287. Cuilean says:

      If Alyn Smith and his disciples hold sway in the SNP, not only my list vote, but my two votes will be for the Alliance For Independence Party.

      The SNP does not own me or any other voter in Scotland.

      Time they remembered that.

      Scotland told Labour to bugger off.

      Scotland will tell the SNP to bugger off too, if it continues with this chicanery.

      I write as a 60 year old, who has only voted SNP. But I will dump it and any other party which stands between my country and its freedom.

    288. Colin Dawson says:

      A couple of months ago I was trying to find a copy of the SNP constitution. I could find nothing on their website. A google search wasn’t helpful because there are countless search results. I waded through hundreds of these but none related to the party’s constitution. They all related to Scottish independence. I therefore emailed the SNP and asked if they could send me a link to the party’s constitution. I have received no reply or even an acknowledgement to a very simple request. Can anyone send me a link to the SNP constitution please?

    289. Michael Laing says:

      @Cuilean at 1.57pm: I wasn’t aware that the Alliance for Independence were putting up candidates for constituencies. Unless they are, I don’t know how you’re going to give them both your votes.

    290. orri says:

      26.1 The National Executive Committee shall draw up and maintain Rules and Standing Orders covering
      the following:
      (a) the conduct of all bodies referred to in this Constitution;
      (b) selection of candidates to stand at any election in the name of the Party;
      (c) conduct of the Party’s elected members and groups at all levels of government;
      (d) conduct required of members, and party discipline;
      (e) job descriptions for Party Office Bearers and any other roles it may consider necessary;
      (f) any other aspect of the Party’s activity which it considers necessary or appropriate.
      26.2 All such Rules and Standing Orders shall be based on the principles laid down in this Constitution.

      26.3 All such Rules and Standing Orders shall be submitted to the National Council or Conference for
      amendment and/or adoption.

      So, assuming there’s been no drastic changes, the NEC do not have the authority to impose any rule that says a member elected to one body must resign from it before standing for election to another. Obviously that’s only their Constitution and it’s possible that there are existing Rules and Standing Orders that bypass the need for them to be ratified. It’d be the equivalent of making them mini dictators though.

    291. Alec Lomax says:

      SNP : Scotland in Union’s least favourite independence party.



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