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Wolves and vampires

Posted on August 01, 2020 by

It seems fair to say that the SNP’s shady, ugly coup d’etwats yesterday hasn’t gone down massively well. Social media was awash in pictures of cut-up membership cards and resignation letters, and some of the most moderate voices in the commentariat also decried the stitch-ups of Joanna Cherry and James Dornan.

The NEC meeting which forced through the new rules was held in secret and nobody knows who was present or who voted for what. Indeed, even the identities of the NEC’s members are largely not public knowledge.

But there’s one thing we do know.

Alert readers have been aware for some time that the headquarters of the SNP’s woke division, and the hotbed of the party’s quasi-fascist Twitler Youth wing, was its Stirling branch. And in perhaps the least shocking revelation of all time, it turns out that this week’s events have Stirling SNP’s grubby fingerprints all over them.

In March, two members of the SNP branch laid down a motion to be debated at the party’s since-abandoned conference. It read as follows:

“Conference decides that an elected parliamentarian may not stand for election to another legislative body without the approval of the National Executive Committee, which will take into account the implications of a parliamentarian potentially holding a dual mandate or causing a parliamentary by-election through resignation from the legislature to which they were first elected.”

That’s the motion that was passed this week to effectively block Joanna Cherry from seeking the nomination to contest Edinburgh Central next year. It was laid down in the names of Gerry McLaughlin & Grant Thoms.

McLaughlin, pictured below, is the branch convener, and bid for selection as the SNP’s Westminster candidate for Stirling in 2015, but was beaten by Steven Paterson.

Thoms, a lecturer at Stirling University, was a member of the vetting committee which rejected Paterson for the 2019 election, clearing the way for Alyn Smith – or “Daddy” as the Twitler Youth refer to him – to secure the nomination uncontested.

(Thoms was a failed SNP candidate in 2000 and 2001, losing Glasgow Anniesland to Labour by large majorities both times. He’s also editor of party newspaper The Scots Independent and was Head Of Policy And Strategy for welfare-to-work firm Ingeus, who have been closely involved with the UK government’s controversial and cruel Work Programme. For some reason Thoms omits this post from his LinkedIn CV.)

Three of Smith’s staff are also office-bearers in the Stirling branch, and he’s widely regarded as the de facto leader of the woke wing. Along with Angus Robertson – chief beneficiary of the blocking of Joanna Cherry – he was central to a newspaper article last year vilifying “abusive cybernats” in the Yes movement.

(Strangely those attacked by Smith and Robertson for such offences did not include such Stirling-based SNP members as Smith’s own quite spectacularly abusive young boyfriend Jordon Henderson, or transgender racist Leeze Lawrence, or noted defamer and woman-abuser Cameron Archibald, a young activist who spews torrents of angry tweets (regularly deleted to avoid scrutiny) from his bedroom in his parents’ house near Bannockburn and has recently resigned as secretary of that branch to join the main Stirling one – as well as changing his Twitter name from “MammothWhale” to “TheStirlingWolf”, coincidentally the animal Adolf Hitler characterised himself as.)

Smith himself also sits on the NEC as Policy Development Convener and clearly fancies himself as a future party leader. But enough local colour. The woke takeover of the SNP, of which this week’s events are only the latest manifestation, has always been centred on Stirling, fuelled by a toxic mix of extremist ideology, naked careerist ambition and personal grudges which has now spread across the party/country more virulently than COVID-19 and is sucking the very lifeblood out of the Yes movement.

Would that there were a way to put it in lockdown.

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  1. 01 08 20 16:57

    Wolves and vampires | speymouth

276 to “Wolves and vampires”

  1. susan says:

    Absolutely disgusting. Expel them all.

  2. twathater says:

    WOW,WOW,WOW What a clusterfuck , are we that far down the rabbit hole where is narnia

  3. twathater says:

    Yet Stu you will still be accused of working AGAINST the SNP

  4. Douglas says:

    Well spotted …it’s sickening
    Do you know anything about new developments?
    There have been some dark hints along the lines of
    ‘NEC the other night? You ain’t seen anything yet!’
    Genuinely worried &waiting for next act of self immolation
    Still think the party members are sound and can fight back,
    this gang is loud &threatening but not big

  5. liz says:

    According to the BLC on Kevin McKenna’s article re the stabbing of Joanna Cherry, someone said that the NEC secret meeting was put forward by someone from Nicola Sturgeon’s office.

    Where have we heard that before?

  6. Cyberbint says:

    Any idea why Smith is called Daddy? Sugar daddy, perhaps?

  7. Taranaich says:

    Should be noted that the wolf is the animal of Stirling, dating from a 9th century local legend that a wolf’s howl alerted the town to a Viking ambush.

    There’s another “Stirling Wolf” of no small notoriety in Scottish history:

    “In 1304, Edward I, the Hammer of the Scots, besieged Stirling Castle. A rain of lead balls, Greek fire and boulders fell on the castle. It was ‘game over’ for the Scots when a terrifyingly monstrous weapon arrived on the scene…

    … Five master carpenters and 50 workmen had been tirelessly assembling massive wooden beams, winches and an enormous counterweight into one of the largest trebuchets ever. When Oliphant saw it in its final stages of construction he knew that it was over. He surrendered in an attempt to save his men and the castle from the destructive power of Edward’s hugely expensive new toy.

    However, Edward was not in a particularly generous mood. This was to be the final nail in the coffin of the Scots and he wanted them to know it. He had a gallery constructed for the ladies of the court to view this humiliating spectacle. The fearsome engine was christened the “Warwolf”. When its 140kg missile was released, it shattered Stirling Castle’s curtain wall. Oliphant and his men were publicly humiliated and sent to England for imprisonment.

    The siege had shown the overwhelming resources Edward had at his disposal and his attitude towards Scotland. This was not merely a military operation. Unlike most sieges, Edward did not want to break the castle’s mighty walls just to gain a military advantage, Oliphant had already given up. Instead, he designed a piece of pure political theatre. He did not allow the garrison to surrender, so he could make a public spectacle of his power in the form of the world’s largest trebuchet.”

  8. Taranaich says:

    A wolf saved Stirling; a wolf doomed Stirling. There’s a poetic irony to that.

  9. CameronB Brodie says:

    As I’ve said before, I used to think Cameron Archibald was one of the good guys. However, he appears to be sympathetic with views that would fit neatly into any fascist regime. Scotland is doomed unless the SNP can regain a legal respect for democracy.

  10. Andy Ellis says:


    It seems entirely appropriate that Mr Archibald’s name should forever be associated with an instrument aimed at demolishing the independence of Scots.

  11. Republicofscotland says:

    My heart goes out to the good people of Stirling who want independence but are lumped with this woke lot, who are only interested in their own agenda.

    Of course Sturgeon and Murrell must be quite happy with it also, to allow it to spread and infect the entire party.

  12. Famous15 says:

    Thinking of rejoining the SNP in Central Edinburgh just ensure “fairness” and blocking corrup selection system.

    Any probs with that? I mean the process of selection has not commenced, believe it or not.

  13. Andy Ellis says:


    I had the same thoughts prior to the 2019 election: I recall Denise Findlay tried to persuade me it was a good idea. However, given what I’ve seen sinceI’m not sure I could stomach even being in the same party as some of the individuals called out above.

    Such people don’t represent the kind of movement I want to see in power, so until the rank and file in the party take action to rid themselves of these cuckoos in the nest, I’ll be looking elsewhere!

  14. Bill Cowan says:

    Good one Stu. It’s been common knowledge in Stirling for a long time. Good of you to bring it to the fore.

  15. ALANM says:

    Cutting up your membership card and cancelling your subs seems like a good idea to me. It’s a simple and straightforward way for individual members to remind those at the top that they’re failing to represent your views & opinions. An added bonus is that you’re then free to join and support any new party which may or may not emerge to promote independence.

  16. Iain Lawson says:

    This will shock the innocents in the don’t rock the boat party to discover while Independence is postponed due to the virus, the good ship SNP has been busy promoting this Fascist bunch’s agenda.

  17. mike cassidy says:

    And as a relevant aside

    One female Labour MP being hunted down for having the nerve to say that the cervix is exclusive to women

  18. CameronB Brodie says:

    Are these Stirlingshire cuckoos not a bit short-sighted? I’m pretty sure the intended Hate Crime bill would result in a few of them being prosecuted for racial hate crime.

  19. Stu hutch says:

    Only way to get rid of them is bring them out of the shadows.make people aware of who they are and there intentions.either put someone up as an independent or vote for someone else.its easier to fight someone in front of you.than waiting for a knife in the back

  20. Al-Stuart says:

    Sorry, I am confused,

    Why is “Jordon” still a member of the SNP? Is being connected to Alyn Smith so powerful that you can incite hatred with impunity?

    As for the deluded Miss Sleeze? Is Nicola Sturgeon so utterly scared of the McWoke lobby that she allows such HIGHLY offensive lawbreakers to spew forth their putrid agenda in this way without Nicola’s trademark manoeuvre of throwing the innocent person under a bus FIRST and then getting them to prove their innocence. Or is it that Nicola Sturgeon IS part of the Jordon Henderson/Alyn Smith/Leeze Lawrence/Grant Thoms/Cameron Archibald electoral poison?

    If only there were a way for the OLD SNP to return.

    You know, the SNP that brought in so many good and decent policies when first elected to become the Scottish Government in 2007?

    It just seems that after Nicola Sturgeon was mentored by Alex Salmond and gifted the First Minister position we have been doomed. Our best ever chance of gaining Independence at EVERY turn has been POISONED by the Jordon Hendersons/Leeze Lawrence and McWoke brigade has been to further their narrow agenda by killing off the host SNP’s raison d’etre.

    I recall a Winger listed all the achievements of the 2007-2014 SNP government and matched them with the 2014-2020 SNP government.

    Asking for a friend: does anyone have that 2007-2014 comparison achievement list please?

  21. Black Joan says:

    Thank you, Rev, as ever, for saying what needs to be said.

    I believe Smith is also known as “Daddy Bear”, and that “Am I wrong” comment from the self-id’d “Wolf” was the sequel to one saying, “He’s so dreamy”.

    Where’s that Twitter vomit face emoji when one needs it . . .

  22. Mike K says:

    And coincidentally Miss Sleaze has a chummy relationship with the slighted James Dornan’s Assistant?

    Hmmm, Cui Bono?

  23. Dan says:

    @ Famous15 at 4:48 pm

    Re. Re-joining the SNP. I previously mentioned the NEC would probably try and “do a Labour” and attempt to implement a block on the recently joined exercising their voting rights.

    Clearly some are trying to protect their interests by running the party tighter than a shark’s ass at 50 fathoms…

    Was there not also an SNP staffer in the Stirling area that was ex GCHQ or something?

  24. Rob says:

    Would it not be suitably ironic to these bizarre times if indi-hostile assets operating in the SNP were balanced out by UK-hostile assets operating from Downing Street. So very many rabbit holes to go down.

  25. stonefree says:

    @ Al-Stuart at 5:17 pm

    Why is “Jordon” still a member of the SNP? Is being connected to Alyn Smith so powerful that you can incite hatred with impunity?

    I believe was to be a candidate for Holyrood, he was supposed to be gone.
    From what I’ve seen, gone doesn’t mean gone in the clique

  26. Bob Mack says:


    “Daddy”. Something’s not at all right in that branch.

  27. Allium says:

    Terrifying. I can’t vote for this. Why are these people being allowed to torch the SNP?

  28. Robert Graham says:

    In case you’re about Cubby

    Did you win ?

    My in counters with the resident Clique on Paul’s site had the same results told more than once to go forth and multiply , never once got the benefit of the doubt , the usual pile in if you happen to question anything outside the Cliques liking , then you get the red card if you defend yourself,
    It’s a pity the same scenario is mirrored in the current SNP leadership,must be catching.

    I think you can give up attempting to post because the site has been hi jacked not sure if Paul has noticed or if it’s not a worry and just ignores it too bad used to enjoy some of the articles

  29. mike cassidy says:

    Rob 5.40

    A cushy job if you’re a UK-hostile.

    Just sit back and watch the enemy self-destruct

  30. Graeme says:

    It seems to me the SNP have been kidnapped and there’s only one person to blame and that’s Nicola Sturgeon, she’s the party leader, and whether she’s a part of this or not it’s going on on her watch while she plays to the gallery over COVID 19.

    She’s turned this pandemic into The Nicola Sturgeon Show while her government and party go to hell in a handcart

    Fucking sick of seeing her every day pontificating behind “Stay Safe” before that it was “Stop Brexit” Where the fuck is Independence, She has to go.

    I don’t know if this is a stupid idea or not but we should stand independents or Alliance/ISP against every woke candidate on the constituency next year as well as on the regional list.

  31. JayR says:

    We should all email our local SNP MP, MSPs and councillors and ask them their view on this and let them know how pissed off we are. Cause trouble and get Oor Nicola to realize how pissed off people are and actually address this. The majority of the members (like any party) just sit back and don’t get actively involved. That must change, local branch members must get more active, stand for positions against these b@st@rds and take the party back.

  32. Willie John says:

    I have voted SNP for over fifty years. I still want an independent Scotland. However it now appears that it will not come by way of the SNP.


    With my age and health that may mean never again!

  33. Sharny Dubs says:

    How anyone can be aware of these creeps and still support the SNP is beyond me.

    Kind of makes a mockery of the “leave a light on” line.


  34. Robert Louis says:

    Yet nothing is done, and nothing will be done.

    These vile people from Stirling SNP have zero interest in the SNP or independence. They are carpetbaggers, careerists and party wreckers. They are truly obnoxious individuals.

    The Stirling branch needs shut down with immediate effect, and each and every one of these abusive individuals booted out the party – especially Alyn Smith’s partner. But of course for that to happen, the SNP would need an actual leader, rather than an administrator.

    This has ALL come to pass, under Nicola Sturgeon. All of it. And still she dithers and does nothing.

    Angus Robertson, following the NEC action, is now just seen as a joke. Stand for yourself Angus, or be ignored, but don’t fiddle rules to ensure that YOU and ONLY YOU can be selected.

    Make no mistake, the reason unionists are not really focusing on this right now, is because they are sitting on it, until election next year. Then it will be all over the BBC, SKY and the papers.

    Such utter folly. NS was handed a party in really good shape, it was strong and was enjoying a boost in support, and she has thrown that and electoral success down the trangender wokeist toilet.

  35. kapelmeister says:

    Daddy Uncool.

  36. Beaker says:

    I’m adding Stirling to the wish list of SNP losses.

    As I’ve pointed out earlier, I’ve never been a member of any political party, so I don’t have a particular axe to bear. However, the only way I believe there will be a change is if there are the losses of key seats.

    People who are not interested in independence should also be worried. When the governing party starts infighting it fucks everything else up.

    All this is playing into the hands of their opponents. Just wait until next year. What a great selection to choose from. They won’t topple the SNP, but they just might remove enough seats to screw a pro-indy majority.

  37. Socrates MacSporran says:

    To me, it’s quite simple. If Nicola Sturgeon knows or knew what the wokeists, careerists and carpet baggers who are ruining the SNP were, or still are up to: she has to go, since she is not exercising a duty of care which we expect from a party leader.

    If she does not and has not known, she still has to go – for the same reason.

    I used to work for one of NIcola’s uncles, and he did the same sort of things – must run in the family.

  38. Sharny Dubs says:

    Oh forgot,

    Once again Stu great work! Where would we be without you.

    Many thanks

  39. Helen Yates says:

    Stu hutch says.
    Only way to get rid of them is bring them out of the shadows.make people aware of who they are and they’re intentions.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this, we must not hold back with our criticisms for fear of giving unionists ammunition, if we want to see independence we have to ensure the poison is removed from the SNP and we need this to be sorted ASAP. we are lucky to have the most forensic journalist on our side.

  40. And spouse says:

    I take Ruth Wisharts point here. Why oh why now. Are we being undermined from outside? Is this actually happening. Stu you were there all the time telling us about this and some folks told you to be quiet! Keep writing

  41. Muscleguy says:

    I note also Angus Robertson started his fundraiser early last weekend before campaigning was supposed to start obviously having inside knowledge. This is just another reason why I may well never, ever vote SNP again.

    We need a new Indy Vehicle the drivers of this one have taken off the accelerator pedal I welded the brake pedal on permanently. Fuck the modern SNP.

    ISP2, you know it makes mathematical sense.

  42. Kenny says:

    What appalling posts!

    Nicola and Humza MUST know of them. Yet are ok with this?

    So what does that mean for the new Hate Crime Laws?

    That would NOT fall under the new Hate Crime Laws? Then what does? The complete opposite?

  43. Shug says:

    If this is true why are the msm not bashing nicola with it

    Looks like an open goal for the unionists

  44. Graeme says:

    Shug says:
    1 August, 2020 at 6:26 pm

    If this is true why are the msm not bashing nicola with it

    Looks like an open goal for the unionists


    Why would they there’s a lot more to come and this is gonna blow up in our face without any help from them

  45. cirsium says:

    Thank you, Rev, for the dispassionate exposure of this malign activity. Definitely “sunlight is the best disinfectant”.

    is sucking the very lifeblood out of the Yes movement.

    Would this not apply to the SNP rather than the YES movement? The YES movement is still there despite the studied lack of leadership over the last few years.

  46. Republicofscotland says:

    “Shug says:
    1 August, 2020 at 6:26 pm
    If this is true why are the msm not bashing nicola with it”


    She’s doing a good job of destroying independence why would the British nationalist media hold her to account on that, never interrupt your enemies when they’re making mistakes so to speak.

  47. A C Bruce says:

    A very damning and damaging picture of the SNP.

    Not very democratic that such a Motion can be passed without it first being debated and voted on by the membership at Conference.

    They sound like a nest of vipers. Strange that they are tolerated, encouraged even, but other members with the interests of people, country and party at heart are leaving with none of the high heid yins bothering to investigate the reasons why.

  48. Bob Mack says:

    If Nicola can talk about common decency towards others by wearing a mask, I wonder what she would make of the above?

    If indeed what she did make of it?

  49. Bob Costello says:

    It would appear the SNP’s problems are terminal. It is time for them to be put to sleep. Realisticly, the only way to progress to independence is through a direct mandate at an election. There is no way that is going to happen next May, therefore, it is time for a completely new party to arise and challenge the SNP next May, and I am speaking about the constituency vote.
    Get on with it Stuart.

  50. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Re The Hate Crime bill would result in a few of them being (Stirling Wokoharam) being prosecuted as per CameronB Brodie says at 5:13 pm and Kenny says at 6:23 pm

    I assume The Hate Crime Act (Scotland) once/if the Bill is passed will be applied in the same way as the Contempt of Court Law is currently in Scotland.

    Some immune whilst others would face the full force of the law for depending on Political Expediency!

  51. paul says:

    I look forward to the next emergency meeting of the national (which nation is negotiable with these people) where an all robertson family list is imposed.

    It will have the delight of being gender neutral.

  52. Bob Mack says:


    This is not the whole SNP. This is sections of it intent on running the party like their own rowdy nursery.

    They are our target, along with those complicit at the top. There are thousands of great apples being spoiled by the bad.

  53. Graeme says:


    I agree Bob but they still command the popular vote which I suspect will see them through the next election but that vote is fragile without the core support and they only have to look at Labour to see what happens when a party abandons it’s core principles.

  54. Dan says:

    @Jockanese Wind Talker at 5:36 pm

    Did you see this comment trail the other day? Some folk put in some serious effort in the longest twitter thread I’ve ever seen!

  55. Fran says:

    They are a bunch o fekin parasites

  56. limey says:

    Marco Biagi (ex Edin Central MSP) has just announced he’s going up against Angus Robertson for the nomination.

  57. Col.Blimp IV says:

    I hear the SNP’s National Secretary has ruled the NEC’s imposition of a women only short list on Glasgow Cathcart “unconstitutional” and reversed the decision … What happened? – Did James Dornan threaten to Self-Identify as a woman?

  58. Brotyboy says:

    Thanks Rev. Deeply sad. I may have to rejoin the Party, because entryists will never steal Independence from me and they are now a serious enough challenge to Independence to force me out into the open.

  59. Mouse says:

    Since rumour has it that James Dornan decision has been reversed I have two theories:

    1. It was a test to see who would speak up and who would stay loyal (see Fintan O’Toole: The Cruelty’s The Point)
    2. It was a way of eradicating trouble making members (those that speak out on unfair application of rules) without expelling them.

  60. limey says:

    I hope that’s true about the Cathcart short list, maybe motivated by the possibility of a legal challenge. James Dornan didn’t seem in the mood to go quietly yesterday.

  61. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Another day in Winger land and another attempt to destroy any chance of independence any time soon …. if ever. The false flaggers on the site must be rofl-ing on a daily basis as most of the comments above wouldn’t look out of place on a rabid unionist site …. which is what they want.

    Well, if you lot can have conspiracy theories by the barrow-load, I can have one 😉

  62. Ottomanboi says:

    Scottish nationalism is THE threat to the British state so we can expect more subversion in identitarian drag. We need a revolution, with all that that entails.
    The subversives understand one thing only. We must deliver that.
    With teeth well sharpened.

  63. Col.Blimp IV says:


    It came from a kosher source. Looked like an e-mail from Angus Mcleod to branch Secretaries, posted on a couple of SNP facebook sites.

  64. limey says:

    Thanks, Col.

    Seen a tweet from Mike Russell which seems to confirm.

    Good. We need more James Dornans and fewer Rhiannon Spears.

  65. Andy Ellis says:


    Yeah, yeah…says the individual without the guts to post under his/her own name.

    It’s actually quite scary the lengths SNP ultras will go to to deny reality. Nothing to see here folks, move along. Indyref2 will be along directly…no, really. Pete Wishart assures us it’ll happen. Just one more push, another mandate for the mandate, and we’re there!

    Good grief.

  66. Dan Yell says:

    Rev Stu, why don’t you just shut the fuck up, you ugly cunt?

  67. Wee Chid says:

    “fuelled by a toxic mix of extremist ideology, naked careerist ambition and personal grudges ” Is it just that or have they been sent to totally f**k up the independence movement? I wish I could make my mind up.

  68. Andy Ellis says:

    I see former MSP Marco Biagi has now thrown his hat into the ring for the Edinburgh Central seat.

    Not sure it’s much of an improvement on Robertson to be honest.

  69. Vivian Smith says:

    Pamela Thornton, Alyn Smith’s caseworker, is an ex? GCHQ employee with 27 years service behind her. Just putting it out there.

  70. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Andy Ellis 7:17pm
    Yeah, yeah…says the individual without the guts to post under his/her own name“.

    Does that criticism stand for all the malcontents on this site who also go by a pseudonym?

  71. Andy Ellis says:


    For everyone who does so. You all need to grow a pair.

    For current purposes however, you’re the one bloviating about false flag operatives, so you know…there is that….

  72. CameronB Brodie says:

    Seeing as we are still within the EU’s legal jurisdiction, should there not already be charges laid against these racists?

    The same Fundamental Rights should also be sufficient to prevent Scotland’s removal from the EU, IMHO.

    Overview of data available in the European Union 2008–2018

    Legal framework
    The rights to life, human dignity, equal treatment, and freedom of thought, conscience and religion are universal human rights recognised in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. The protection and promotion of these rights are intimately linked with the fight against antisemitism.

    Treaty on European Union, Article 2
    The Union is founded on the values of respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities. These values are common to the Member States in a society in which pluralism, non-discrimination, tolerance, justice, solidarity and equality between women and men prevail.

    Treaty on European Union, Article 3.1
    The Union’s aim is to promote peace, its values and the well-being of its peoples.

    The Racial Equality Directive (2004/43/EC)6 prohibits discrimination on the grounds of racial or ethnic origin in employment and beyond, and the Employment Equality Directive (2000/78/EC)7 prohibits discrimination in employment on the ground of religion or belief, among others. The Victims’ Rights Directive (2012/29/EU)8 establishes minimum standards on the rights, support and protection of victims of crime. It refers explicitly to victims of hate crime, their protection and specific needs related to their recognition, respectful treatment, support and access to justice.

  73. tartanfever says:

    I’ll guarantee you one thing, when it comes to it, the unionist press will start publishing these tweets from the likes of Jordan, Cameron and Leeze as an effort to spoil an Independence campaign.

    Expect front page sex sleaze allegations from the Mail, Record, Scotsman etc.

    You can see the headlines now:

    ‘SNP/Yes movement Chief under fire for links to ….’

  74. Patricia Spencer says:

    Grant Thomas!! Not surprised he keeps that dact off his biography. Tories and ‘New’ Labour live on in the midst of SNP. Pfffttt

  75. I suspect that the useless Aonghas Macleoid reversed their decision on James Dornan when people started sharing documentary evidence of how the process was unconstituional.

    I suspect he realised m’learned friends would be along shortly/

  76. I think that Grant Thoms played a part in the Break up of the NE Fife branch, . He was to investigate the treatment the Crossgate Centre (a YES HUB in Cupar)was receiving from SNP members mainly from outwith Cupar. One of those SNP members trying to get the YES Hub closed (the Crossgate centre), actually assaulted one of the guys who ran the hub. This thug received a Police Caution for the assault. Yet the thug continued as a Branch Office bearer and took up new branch posts later. Grant Thoms came down on the side of those trying to close the Yes Hub.

  77. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @tartanfever 7:33pm
    I’ll guarantee you one thing, when it comes to it, the unionist press will start publishing these tweets from the likes of Jordan, Cameron and Leeze as an effort to spoil an Independence campaign.

    Do you not think the Rev himself would find himself in such a position regarding dodgy tweets taken out of context? Or even for some of the stuff that gets posted down here?

    I don’t know the people in the article from Adam. I doubt the average voter does either and will probably not be in the least bit interested in what they’ve had to say in a tweet nearly a decade ago. I also doubt they have anything like the influence the Wingers think they have.

    It’s all gossip and innuendo. Its the Rev’s “some arsehole doctrine” except its being inflicted on the independence movement by people who aver they are independence supporters themselves.

  78. schrodingers cat says:

    twitler youth

    ha ha ha ha ha

  79. Allium says:

    Wonder if Biagi has been asked to stand in order to make the thing look a bit less of a stitch up, since Robertson looks absolutely pathetically gutless at the moment.

  80. Bob Mack says:


    It’s not really about who they are. It’s what they are. Isn’t it?

  81. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Bob Mack 7:58pm

    That’s a bit too cryptic and a tad disturbing. What do you mean by “what they are“?

  82. Bob Mack says:


    Nice diversionary action,but your in retreat fighting a rearguard action.

  83. CameronB Brodie says:

    Me Bungo Pony
    You and the cat appear unable to support the rule-of-law, which is the exact condition that is destroying the party from within. Why don’t the pair of you get over yourselves, and just admit the party’s leadership has lost touch with reality.

  84. Bob Mack says:

    @Me Bungo Pony,

    You figure it out. Your a scientist no?

  85. Effijy says:

    I seem to recall a Mr Wishart who doesn’t like Wings as
    It has swear words.

    There seem to be many of his party members using language
    That would make swear words appear angelic.

    Dangerous freaks abound in these tweets.

    Wonder if SNP will Make any comment about the thousands that left the party
    and try to justify the many reasons behind their exit?

    There’s a big Civid Bolder they could clim back under if they don’t want to face it.

  86. Regarding my earlier post about Grant Thoms. He was actually sent through to sort out the Cupar Branch.

    The NE Fife branch split into 5 separate branches because of those SNP members trying to close the Crossgate Centre.

    One of the 5 branches was Cupar branch.

    one of the major players in trying to close the Crossgate Centre is now a member of the NEC. Just for info.

  87. wull says:

    The SNP is imploding, not the Yes movement. The implosion is still in its beginning stages. It will increase rapidly and exponentially.

    As the SNP implodes the Yes movement, which the SNP was very effectively impeding, will grow.

    It will grow bigger, wider and deeper. The sooner the SNP implodes the better. It was always a mixture of genuine Yes-to-independence people and people who were more interested in their own political power and success than actual independence.

    It even had an official double-message to voters. On the one hand, “vote for us because we are the Party, indeed the only Party, that aims at independence.” That bit of the slogan brought the Yessers on side. On the other hand, “vote for us because we are the best Party to administer Scotland and look after your interests even if you are against independence because, in that case, when we have a referendum on independence you will still be able to vote against it. And don’t worry, we won’t allow independence to happen without a referendum, so you No-voters are still safe when you vote for us to be the Scottish government.” So, that opened the SNP to include and profit from the support of No-voters.

    The No-and-Yes SNP. All things to all Scots (or even to “all men” as well as “all men” and all those who declare themselves to be whatever on earth they want to be. This thing is for everybody, don’t forget. The Better-than-Dyson Party Machine that will hoover up all the votes from everyone and and anyone and all the length and breadth of Scotland.

    How’s that for inclusivity?

    The Party that will govern the whole country on behalf all Scots of all persuasions, including those who do believe in independence and those who don’t.

    The truly comprehensive Party with the truly comprehensive, all-inclusive and all-embracing First Minister, Total Controller and Party Leader.

    So that all Scots can now be re-made in her image. She has no problem with women saying their men, and therefore being so on no more than their say-so; and no problem with men saying they are women simply on their say-so and therefore actually being so. And if she has no problem with it, why should anyone else?

    OK, ontology (the science of ‘being’, which helps us understand the reality of things as they actually are, not as we would like them to be) may not be her strong point … but she did study law.

    No, she did not do the philosophy of law, but just the nuts and bolts of how it works, which is all that matters. Because, as she said herself, she is a politician to her finger-tips, and political fingers are there to jab folk in the eye. (And – OK – sometimes take a big dig into the pie as well, but that is bye and bye: she is above all that.)

    You get into politics in order to make people do whatever you want them to do. Because you know better than any of them do what’s good for them. You use law to reinvent reality according to your own image. You get the chance to shape and mould the world into what it ought to be. You change everything as you wish. You speak, and it is. That is what I do, and when I speak my Party does it, and what we say is what happens. The New Scotland is created, ex nihilo (out of nothing), because the old Scotland was just ZERO. Everything that went before – before ME, that is – was just zilch, NOTHING.

    (‘Sorry, I thought it was God who did that – the creation of the universe, and all that.’ ‘Don’t be silly: there is no God. There is just ME. And you are very lucky to have me.’ ‘Why?’ ‘To refashion you into MY image! Lucky you!’)

    This is the Party that is imploding … thanks be to God …

    It will implode in all directions, so expect a lot of debris to come crashing down to earth over the next couple of months and more. With plenty of collateral damage. What we see now is just the beginning …

    For exponential ex-or-im-plosions, take another look at footage of that atomic cloud exploding over Hisroshima and Nagasaki in 1945.

    But how will the debris fall?

    Could be in many ways, but one thing will be consistent. The Yes of the Yes-and-No will fall in one direction, and the No of the No-and-Yes Party in the other. The many genuine Yessers within the ranks who really do belong to the Yes movement will be liberated from those who were secretly, without them realising it, reining them in, and holding them. And the NO people who infiltrated will be back on their own.

    Great. Let the divide happen. And let it happen quickly. I expect we will all at last know who is who – who is really who – in time for the May 2021 election. So we will know who to vote for, and who not to vote for. It is not only on the List that I want to have a genuine ‘Independence Now’ candidate to vote for. It is also on the constituency vote.

    And I will be voting for a person, a pro-independence person. Not for a ticket that someone has hung around his neck, as if he was a prize cow. This is going to be an election like no other. The best and most obviously determined pro-independence individual standing in the constituency gets my vote. And so does what I deem to be the best and most committed pro-independence Party on the List (and I will look carefully at the order in which they place their people, to take note of who exactly they are prioritising, come the day).

    Let the SNP implode. It can’t be stopped now anyway. And let the Yes Movement profit thereby. As the SNP disintegrates, in one way or another, the Yes Movement will grow and grow.

    The Unionists thought if they got rid of Alex Salmond the independence movement would fold. It didn’t.

    Now they think if they puncture the SNP it will fold. But it won’t.

    The idea that there would only be one Party you could vote for in order to get independence was never really healthy anyway. It did not augur well for what an independent Scotland would look like.

    I don’t want to live in a One-Party state where there is no diversity, freedom of speech is jeopardised, and minorities and minority views are even persecuted. I did in fact live in such a One-Party state for quite a few years, in the 1970s and 1980s. Although I liked the place and the people I met there enormously, I don’t need to tell you that it is not to be recommended.

    The way the SNP is behaving is just the same thing. The idiots who have gained the power within think they can do anything they like. And rubbish, eliminate and lock up whoever they want. The Fascistic-style posts and pictures from Twitter (or wherever the source was) included in the article above says it all. Who wants a Scotland – or any other country – dominated by people of that kind.

    So, actually, I am not in the least bit despondent about the SNP meltdown. I am actually glad of it. And I am not discouraged by it. It is the people – the sovereign people – who will win Scotland’s independence. Not a political Party. And that is how it should be. Yes is a people’s movement; it is NOT a political Party. Let us take heart, and move forward with confidence. This is going to work out fine. We, the sovereign pro-independence people of Scotland, should never have sat back and expected a political party to do our job for us in the first place. Politicians can’t replace us. It is up to us. We have the ultimate responsibility for our own country. And won’t it feel good to be rid of all that dead wood that has been clogging the arteries of the SNP for so long. I am already beginning to feel healthy again, thanks be to God!

  88. John Jones says:

    Dan Yell?
    being a man with a beard not a woman I don’t find the rev ugly,but there again I’m not into fancying men.
    as for the cunt part, I’ve always found that to be a very nice thing and after all where would we all be without one?

  89. Colin Alexander says:

    If I remember right, I also suggested Stu should stand against Pete Wishart, Alyn Smyth or a Tory at GE2019. (Same things really).

    My suggestion was shouted down as being anti-indy.

    Would anyone still criticise my suggestion as being anti-indy?

    It appears to me, those who elected Wishart or Smyth elected anti-indy MPs.

  90. Josef Ó Luain says:

    Large parts of Sturgeon’s Constituency are nothing less than a public health hazard and remain rat and cockroach infested. As a local representative, the woman has done little or nothing during her time in office to change this situation. Her romping-home victoriously next May is, therefore, no foregone conclusion.

  91. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @CBB 8:04pm
    Why don’t the pair of you get over yourselves, and just admit the party’s leadership has lost touch with reality“.

    They may be a tad out of touch over the GRA and HCB (though both these bills are not yet passed and unlikely to be so in their current form) but on “basic politics and achieving independence“, it is the impatient malcontents who are a tad out of touch. Self destructive, petulant in-fighting won’t win Scotland its independence. Continuing the momentum through to the May 2021 election probably will …. If the malcontents don’t louse it up.

  92. Bob Mack says:

    @Me Bungo Pony,

    Your not a member of the Stirling Branch by any chance?

  93. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Wull 8:14pm
    As the SNP implodes the Yes movement, which the SNP was very effectively impeding, will grow“.

    Utter delusional bunkum.

  94. CameronB Brodie says:

    Me Bungo Pony
    Brexit is unconstitutional, so it looks as if you don’t know how to support democracy.

  95. CameronB Brodie says:

    Me Bungo Pony
    Before you remind us Scotland has not yet show the intention of supporting indy, we might have if we were allowed access to justice. If the party is unable to support Scotland’s constitutional identity, you can’t expect the electorate to uphold the Scottish government’s legal duty of care.

    Scots have human rights, even though neither Westminster or the SNP appear to recognise this fact.

  96. deerhill says:

    Anyone with inside knowledge care to take a guess as to which
    wokist Bungo Pony really is?

    And before anyone says, “Why don’t you post in your real nme?”, the above is my real name, only it’s in my forebears

  97. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Will 8:14pm

    Anyone who believes that the destruction of the SNP will magically lead to a stronger independence movement needs to seek professional help.

    It is that sort of “doublethink that convinces me those who control the narrative on these threads have no interest in achieving independence and every interest in preventing it. Unfortunately, too many on these threads have fallen for it,

  98. Robert Graham says:


    Never really believed in them but , I said on here about not having had a reply to my email cancelling my SNP membership then Ding as if by magic a email from Peter Murrell thanking me for my previous contributions, oh really nothing about length of membership, nothing about my reasons or concerns , but my contributions well that’s comforting isn’t it , my Ducking Contributions

    Well if this SNP management are taking a interest in this site listen up boys

    GO DUCK YOURSELVES that clear enough ?

  99. schrodingers cat says:


    dont tell me, dutch mountaineers?

  100. Colin Alexander says:


    Breeks argues sovereignty, which is great.

    However, the UK only recognises the sovereignty of UK Parliament. As I implied on the previous post, so does the legal systems of the UK.

    Scottish Courts recognise UK Parliament as sovereign cos Scotland is part of the UK and that’s what the UK says is the constitutional law of the UK.

    So, where does that leave Scottish sovereignty?

    Meaningless words, unless asserted.

    Asserted by declaring we are not bound by UK constitutional law. We are Scotland, not the UK: Scotland has resiled the Treaty.

    UK constitutional law won’t apply to independent Scotland.

    That’s why I suggest a plebiscite election, so Scotland declares independence based on a democratic decision by the people of Scotland.

    As the basis of independence would be the sovereignty of the people: it would be votes cast for indy that counts, not devolution MSPs elected. So, no splitting of votes as would happen with electing MSPs.

    Devolution Scotland Act Holyrood would be rescinded by independence – its legislation of another country. We would not have MSPs only Scottish MPs at Holyrood.

  101. limey says:

    Angus Robertson now on Twitter calling for reversal of NEC decision, and a fair and open contest. He was getting absolute pelters from what I saw earlier today.

  102. Bob Mack says:

    @Colin Alexander,

    Very good. How are you hoping to persuade the First Minister to go along with that exactly ?

  103. Davie Oga says:

    wull says:
    1 August, 2020 at 8:14 pm
    The SNP is imploding, not the Yes movement. The implosion is still in its beginning stages. It will increase rapidly and exponentially.

    Fantastic post. May it come to pass.

  104. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @deerhill 8:41pm
    Anyone with inside knowledge care to take a guess as to which wokist Bungo Pony really is?

    …. because, in the eyes of the ‘faithful‘, that is the only possible scenario. They are so blinkered by their own selfrighteousness they cannot conceive that an ordinary Indy could ever find fault with their ‘true religion‘. So it must be an ‘agent provocateur‘. It is fast becoming a cult.

  105. Andy Ellis says:


    It must be comforting from behind your cloak of snivelling anonymity to label all the “malcontents” as false flag operatives, but it isn’t really fooling anyone here or outside. The NEC’s decision yesterday has gone down like a rat sandwich with the broader membership, hence all of those pictures of cut up membership cards, resignation messages etc.

    The line that we are the ones who pose a clear and present danger to the chances of achieving independence, in the face of all the evidence of gradualism, woke entryism, and the litany of crass political stupidity including the attempted political lynching of Salmond, is just too funny.

    If you want to wait a decade even for the chance of indyref2, continue to support and vote for the SNP. If you actually want independence, rather than stodgy, managerialists in hoc to misogynistic woke extremists, let’s do something else.

  106. pipinghot says:

    There will be a handsome statue of the Rev Stu and a place in the history books for all his work, not so sure about the place current members of the SNP will have though.

  107. Robert Graham says:

    Can everyone clean things up

    I don’t believe any Indy supporters here will go out of their way to vote for any unionist party
    most of us are really bloody pissed off at the SNP just now but actually not voting for them in order to help any unionist really is barking mad,
    we might might be royally pissed off but most of us are not completely bat shit looney , so whatever moves Unionists are making in order to engineer a split get real boys it ain’t going to work , nice try but no Cigar,

  108. schrodingers cat says:

    If you actually want independence, rather than stodgy, managerialists in hoc to misogynistic woke extremists, let’s do something else.

    like what?

  109. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Bob Mack 8:54pm
    Very good. How are you hoping to persuade the First Minister to go along with that exactly“?

    How do you know she isn’t already considering it? The SNP has always said they will only go for another vote on independence when they can be reasonably sure of winning it. That has not been the case since 2014 but is moving that way now. That they have not made public their plans would hardly be a surprise as only a fool would inform their opponents of their plans months in advance. It’s common sense.

  110. Terence callachan says:

    So there are people in the Stirling branch who are not nice and say bad things.
    I wonder if there are such people in other branches ?
    I wonder if there are such people in Labour Conservative Lib Dem branches

    Possible isn’t it
    You know , given that there are good bad and ugly people dispersed all over the world

    Perhaps the SNP constitution needs an insert along the lines of , you must be a good person as judged by ……well ….WOS, why not

    Did someone on here really say the SNP and the yes movement is imploding ?

    Perhaps it’s the followers of WOS that are imploding ?

    YES are on 54% perhaps even more than that
    Can you implode and be on 54%
    Will we have a nuclear implosion if YES secures Scottish independence ?

    Whatever….I will stick with those that got us here
    I truly loved the way AS campaigned
    I think NS has to be given leave to complete her Scottish independence campaign in the way that she has in mind

    You can’t depose someone who has added 10% to what AS achieved
    You stand by them no matter who is in the Stirling branch

    Did you really need to be told that ?
    Give yourself a shake

    If NS lost 10% and we were on 34% I would support your views for change but don’t change a team when it’s winning
    Did you really need to be told that too ?
    Give yourself another shake

  111. Andy Ellis says:


    Like vote for someone else on list in 2021 and start preparing for a real independence party to stand against them in constituencies after that too. At this stage more and more of us probably feel there’s little to lose given the SNP are

    At the moment I’m too busy making bucket fulls of popcorn watching what’s going on in my former branch. It’s both fascinating and horrifying in equal measure, like a slow motion car crash.

    So far the only one I’d even consider voting for is Joanna Cherry, so unless they take Angus’ advice and scrap the #Cherrymandering I may well just spoil my ballot or vote Green for the LOLZ.

  112. CameronB Brodie says:

    schrodingers cat
    Refer to constitutional and international law, to better inform policy and strategy?

  113. Bob Mack says:


    After much consideration of your post, the only inescapable conclusion one can reach is that your an idiot.

  114. Bob Mack says:

    @Me Bungo Pony,

    My apologies. I forget it has only been six years the FM has had to come up with something. Indeed anything.

    I sadly do not possess the common sense of the true devotee like yourself. Only that which nature and my mother gave me.

    No doubt she(FM) is planning Indy 2 right now. Hurrah.

  115. Willie says:

    Reading Terence Callaghan’s comments it’s clear that he thinks the SNP are going to swank it.

    54% it just a matter of counting the seats. Like Labour before them the SNP are invincible, they are the natural party, entitled and deserving of the people’s vote.

    Sorry Terrence but I really don’t think the SNP can take it for granted that they are the chosen ones. Angus Robertson thinks that. Indeed the party seems to think that.

    Confidence before a fall. The SNP sadly may now reflect new Labour on steroids counting the seats before the vote.

    Mnnn. I’m not so sure of that.

  116. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Andy Ellis 8:55pm
    It must be comforting from behind your cloak of snivelling anonymity to label all the “malcontents” as false flag operatives

    …. except I didn’t. I said they exist, not that every malcontent was one.

    And again I ask you, what is the ‘something else” that does not require the SNP to do something you claim they will never do? If your only plan is to destroy the major Indy party and then hope for a miracle, I’ll have to pass on it.

  117. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scotland’s legal and political cultures are under-developed and malformed, as a result of their historical subourdination to English legal culture (see Parliamentary sovereignty). So playing British constitutionalism is simply not helping Scots to access their human rights.

    European Scientific Journal June 2014 /SPECIAL/ edition vol.1 ISSN: 1857 – 7881 (Print) e – ISSN 1857- 7431


    This study will be focused in analyzing on how political culture can impact in the rule of law and political system in Albania. Political system is defined as the interaction between political institutions and political culture.

    While, the constitution of the legal state is a common responsibility of the citizens, civil society and state institutions. All these three concepts, political culture, political system and rule of law are strongly connected among
    them; this way political culture will impact in the performance of independent judiciary and political institutions.

    In case of Albania, there’s a different situation; political culture, yes it can affect but the question is if it improves the performance of these institutions or worsen that. Albanian political culture must be perceived within the context of the historical background, because such periods of time like communist regime, problematic transition (accompanied with civil war on 1997) will have the impact in political and cultural education of the citizen.

    That will contribute to deepening of subordinated point of view and approaches, subordinated to authorities, non-active civil society, corruption expansion in all governmental structures and so leading to harm of liberal democracy.

    To this background and political culture, many issues addressed to accountability of political elites in control and responsiveness to the voters will be appeared. Legal accountability, which implicates governing according to the law, equality in the face of law, will be in danger if changes don’t get started with public opinion, education of democratic values, independent judiciary, power division and corruption extinction.

    Political culture, rule of law, political system, civil society.

  118. Dogbiscuit says:

    If they enjoy the protection of the SNP leadership the woke loony tunes are the future of the party.
    SNP seem more like Blairite Red Tory types than Scottish Nationalist.

  119. schrodingers cat says:

    Andy Ellis says:
    Like vote for someone else on list in 2021 and start preparing for a real independence party to stand against them in constituencies after that too.
    I may well just spoil my ballot or vote Green for the LOLZ.


    plenty folk have launched so called indy constituency parties, rise etc. all have flopped

    no indy party other than the snp will be on the constituency.feel free to spoil yer ballot, or vote greens, same difference.

  120. Bob Mack says:

    Independence is not the exclusive gift of the SNP. Others can make it happen too.It may take longer,but it can be done.

    The SNP are not the only chance for Independence but granted they currently are in the best position.

  121. Colin Alexander says:

    Bob Mack

    What would it have to do with the FM? If Scotland voted for indy, the role of FM would be made obsolete as that’s a UK role.

    I guess you mean the leader of the SNP agreeing to a plebiscite election as SNP policy? Nicola Sturgeon won’t; she’s a British colonial administrator. Neither will the SNP NEC. They are colonials too.

    Joanna Cherry might. Alex Salmond might. If Alex would, others would follow.

  122. CameronB Brodie says:

    The Rev’s filter has just obliterated A l b a n i a. A bit like British nationalism intends towards Scotland.

  123. dakk says:

    Sounds like Stuart might’ve wrote that when watching the Dons today

  124. Rm says:

    When the SNP didn’t fight to keep Scotland in Europe they had almost 5 years to do it, why did they waste all that time, they maybe had a secret plan, it’s getting closer to Hogmanay no time left, they could have ended the union, 5 years what a waste, something’s far wrong. We can’t blame this virus because it’s only been around for four months.

  125. Dogbiscuit says:

    The anti Semite Archibald sounds like he has a specialised bookshelf.
    Ho Nicola Sturgeon you have dodgy followers.
    Teuchters fae Bannockburn.

  126. Andy Ellis says:


    We’ll all get along a lot better if you interact with what I actually say, not your fanciful interpretations. The SNP is no longer my party: it no longer represents my values or beliefs in major areas, and I certainly no longer have any faith in its ability – or more importantly desire – to deliver independence. That said, it’s obviously going to be the major party going forward. It’s not about destroying it, just ensuring there is an alternative, because it’s just not going to deliver indyref2 in any acceptable timescale.

    I have no expectation the current party and leadership can be rendered fit for purpose, but if so…great! I hope ordinary members DO take back control, but because I’m pretty convinced that isn’t going to happen, it’s wise to start thinking what the alternatives might be.

    You’re obviously entirely sanguine about waiting potentially for a decade or more for indy. Gradualists gonna gradualise.

  127. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Doug Daniel is doing a talk (SNP members only) and it’s organised by the Motherwell/Wishaw branch. The tweet advertising it says all SNP members are invited and they have to DM the branch for more information.

    Has anyone done so? Do we know where the venue is?

  128. Dogbiscuit says:

    Gradualists concretise.

  129. schrodingers cat says:

    Me Bungo Pony says:
    The SNP has always said they will only go for another vote on independence when they can be reasonably sure of winning it. That has not been the case since 2014 but is moving that way now. That they have not made public their plans would hardly be a surprise as only a fool would inform their opponents of their plans months in advance. It’s common sense.

    spot on, i told the wingers to sit back and relax, enjoy their holibobs etc 🙂

    nothing going to happen in the next 2 months.

    i hope cherry does apply to become an msp. but she should resign her wm seat and force a bye election. it would give the “morale de troups” a boost. with a 12k majority, i think it is a calculated risk worth taking

    also, dougie ross is gonna make the jump too, i might force him to vacate his wm seat as well

    Douglas Ross 22,112
    SNP 21,599

    his only route into holyrood will be on the list

  130. Dogbiscuit says:

    Get a laid of guys dressed as Norman Bates Ma to picket Doug Daniels venue for a laugh.

  131. schrodingers cat says:

    Colin Alexander says:

    I guess you mean the leader of the SNP agreeing to a plebiscite election as SNP policy?

    every election going forward will be a plebiscite on independence

    nothing can change that now

  132. schrodingers cat says:


    I have ian 🙂

  133. Dogbiscuit says:

    The SNPs best chance for Independence was no later than 2017 around April time. I can’t quite remember the line of political detail that led me to that conclusion.

  134. schrodingers cat says:

    still not sure what angus robertson is guilty of? he has applied to be a PPC in edin central. nothing else.

    Angus Robertson @AngusRobertson
    Edinburgh Central SNP members have been let down with some feeling their choices being restricted. The SNP NEC has made the wrong decision and must ensure the widest and fairest contest. We need the best candidate to win the nomination without any interference.

    As former SNP Depute Leader and Business Convener of the party it disappoints me that we are distracted from delivering independence. We have to unite and ensure we have the broadest and strongest team standing for the Scottish Parliament. Together we will win.

    he seems quite happy for cherry to apply as a PPC ?

  135. Andy Ellis says:

    @Bungo & SC

    Woo…WOOO!! “We have a cunning plan!!” klaxon!! That’s a doozie.

    Trust Nic and don’t tell the yoons, It’s a SECRET. But somehow because *reasons* the britnats are going to roll over and give us everything we ask for if only we say pretty please this time…oh, and show them our groaning mandate cupboard.

    That’ll DEFINITELY work, right?

    (#indyref2039 anyone?)

  136. schrodingers cat says:


    we have 2 mandates for indyref2

    we have no mandate for independence.

    but, as you say, even if we do win an indy mandate of 50%+ at the next election, bojo could still say no.

    what you gonna do then? bleed all over him?

  137. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC –

    So where is it then?

    Surely it’s not a secret!

  138. Terry says:

    Its all going on on twitter. Edinburgh central trending. Angus trending. Calls for NEC to reverse Joanna decision. NEC getting slagged- huh, after snp got a shock about the kick back.

    This will shine a light on the woke brigade.

  139. Craig Murray says:

    schrodingers cat

    “I am not sure what Angus Robertson is guilty of”.

    I do not believe you.

  140. Andy Ellis says:


    We have no mandate for indy because of the SNP’s failure to push for it, to have a campaign, or to prepare Plan B.

    BoJo can readily ignore an “illegal” referendum (which the SNP neglected to put beyond legal doubt for the past 5 years), as will the international community. He can’t readily ignore a Yes in a plebiscitary election, not would the international community.

    The $64,000 question is why the SNP are so determined not to simply declare that as a strategy? What are they so scared of?

  141. schrodingers cat says:


    whats he done then??

  142. Andy Ellis says:


    It’s hilarious isn’t it? I wonder if Angus’ concern about the “let down” members of Edinburgh Central will go as far as him doing the right thing and threatening to stand down if the NEC’s decision isn’t reversed?

    It’d be great to think this is the first sign of the whole Woko Haram entryist project over-reaching itself?

  143. schrodingers cat says:


    We have no mandate for indy because the people of scotland havent given us one

  144. Jonathan Marshall says:

    Already emailed Fergus Ewing my MSP last night… I wil vote Green (I know wasted vote) and Independence list at the next election… have voted SNP for more than 20 yrs… But over the Salmond affair, Joana Cherry stitch up (very subtle by the way) and the insinuations of cheating and gaming by SNP MPs and MSPs I cannot in good conscience vote SNP in 2021. Much like abandoning Labour after Iraq. I will still support Independence, but unlike Mr Murray no longer view the SNP as the means to deliver it.

  145. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC –

    Doug Daniel’s Motherwell/Wishaw gig will be online, right? Some kind of conference thing.

    What’s the betting it’ll be cancelled ‘due to unforeseen circumstances’?

  146. SilverDarling says:

    Robertson says he disagrees with the NEC decision now that Marco Biagi is standing. Even Kirsty Blackman tying herself in knots to say she disagrees with the decision (I think !) although I don’t know WTF she is on about most of the time.

    It won’t be long before everyone on the NEC will deny that they voted for it. Amazing what happens when you realise you have read it all wrong and the spectre looms of being humiliated when you thought you had everything sewn up.

    I’ve said before if they plant any of that woke clique on us they will be followed through the toon with a pitchfork! Nobody has a monopoly on chapping doors and I can leaflet and bring up a social media history on speed dial with the best of them. They cannot hide now and pretend no one is bothered about their behaviour or their history.

  147. Col.Blimp IV says:


    I’ve never managed to get to the end of a post of that length before, usually because I either don’t, understand or care about the topic or disagree with the poster. Not so in this case, you ticked all the right boxes. We differ only with regard to the timing and scale of the implosion, I think it will be dependent on the party bosses reactions to The Regional List patriots and what they do with the mandate or offer of a joint mandate that they get.

    I will vote SNP in the Constituency vote this time, but definitely for the last time … if they do not make the Regional Ballot a defacto Independence Referendum.

    No amount of wish-washy gradualist fearmongering will convince me that to do otherwise, is anything short of unforgivable.

  148. schrodingers cat says:


    just pulling yer plonker ian:)

    i dont even know who dan douglas is

    come to think of it, i couldnt find wishaw on a map even if i tried.

    its in glasgow right?

  149. Andy Ellis says:


    And it isn’t going to matter if they do before 2039 for as long as the SNP are content to stick monomaniacally to the line that we can only gain independence via an agreed referendum.

    If we have 60% or 70% it’ll make zero difference if we never get a chance to either vote in a referendum or plebiscitary elections. We all know the former isn’t happening, right?

  150. schrodingers cat says:


    all elections in scotland going forward will be plebiscites on independence. regardless of what anyone says, including nicola.

    as for Nicola, i would point you back to MBP’s earlier post about keeping your cards close to you. She will look at the polls nearer the time and make her decision. No one releases their manifesto 9 months from the election. no one.

    but independence will be at the heart of the snp manifesto.

    currently the snp is on 55%, i genuinely cant see support falling in the next 9 months, brexit on jan 1st will have the opposite effect

    so yeah, i believe the sovereign people of scotland are about to give us the mandate for independence we have all been working towards

  151. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC –

    You’ve been commenting here for years, right? So I suspect you do know who I’m on about. His name is Doug Daniel. He’s now on the SNP’s NEC.

    He used to be a WOS regular and shared many a laugh and joke with us all back in the day…ah, the banter years!

    But then he got to give a speech to SNP conference and, sadly, for reasons unknowable, drifted away from us after that. Never writes, never phones…


  152. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    So Angus Robertson publicly stating:

    “Edinburgh Central SNP members have been let down with some feeling their choices being restricted. The SNP NEC has made the wrong decision”

    I assume all those cancelled memberships and associated loss of membership revenue by the SNP must have resulted in this too little, too late amateurish damage limitation exercise (was AR instructed to issue this statement by Party Leadership/NEC)?

    At least The Branch will now get a fair chance to select the candidate they want as opposed to imposition.

  153. schrodingers cat says:


    genuinely dont know him.

    ill go check on google see if it rings any bells

  154. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Andy Ellis says:

    The $64,000 question is why the SNP are so determined not to simply declare that as a strategy? What are they so scared of?

    I rejoined the SNP recently, with the express purpose of lobying for that strategy. All I have heard against it so far is : We mustn’t go for independence too soon, or we could ruin everything if we fail. AND We must take the bulk of the population with us, a 55/45 split would just result in bickering amongst ourselves and would probably be harmful to the economy.

    They need to be made aware that THIS IS THE INDEPENDENCE ELECTION and the acid test of, who is and who is not; for Scotland.

  155. Breeks says:

    Colin Alexander says:
    1 August, 2020 at 8:49 pm

    …..So, where does that leave Scottish sovereignty?

    Meaningless words, unless asserted.

    That’s true, but when it is asserted, Scotland’s sovereignty defeats Westminster’s sovereign convention.

    Joanna Cherry’s success in forcing the UK Prime Minister to un-prorogue the Westminster Parliament had no basis in English or UK law. Boris Johnson’s prorogation was a reflection of his own arbitrary decision and the English / UK doctrine that the unwritten UK Constitution didn’t prevent him doing so. In essence, Boris Johnson did it because there was no written rule saying he couldn’t do it.

    Joanna Cherry challenged that, and compelled Boris Johnson to reopen Parliament based upon the Scottish doctrine that the people are sovereign, and that Parliament cannot arbitrarily remove itself from scrutiny. She won. The pretence of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty being supreme was shredded and destroyed.

    The UK Supreme Court had no jurisdiction because Cherry’s case was rooted in Scots Law, not UK unwritten convention. The Supreme Court had no hook upon which to hang its jacket. It was a matter that fell within the jurisdiction of Scots Law.

    You therefore have a literal example of the English doctrine of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty being expressly defeated by the Scottish doctrine of Scottish popular sovereignty… a concept which has no counterpart in English Law.

    You are correct, that sovereignty must be asserted, but that’s the whole point. The SNP under Sturgeon are refusing to assert Scottish Sovereignty, and worse, are conducting their business as a body which has recognised that UK Parliamentary Sovereignty is supreme.

    If Scotland did defend it’s sovereignty, which is precisely what Joanna Cherry did, the Law will recognise the ascendancy of Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty over the UK’s unwritten convention. If Scotland thus challenged the unconstitutional nature of our subjugation through Brexit, I believe Scotland’s Brexit would be deemed unlawful, and such an adjudication would throw the EU into uncharted waters over a Brexit process which has been deemed unlawful, and the EU’s Constitution which demands the process is lawful and constitutional.

    Brexit would have to be suspended, or at minimum, Scotland would have to be respected as an injured party which has had it’s legitimate sovereignty encroached upon.

  156. schrodingers cat says:


    saw a picture, i remember him giving a speech at a conference

    i dont remember him commenting on wos tho’, he couldnt have been that memorable

  157. Reading the Machiavellian masturbation madness going on within the SNP, it might be time to resurrect this piece of mine from just under a year ago, as SUBTLE HINT.

  158. schrodingers cat says:

    If Scotland did defend it’s sovereignty, which is precisely what Joanna Cherry did, the Law will recognise the ascendancy of Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty over the UK’s unwritten convention. If Scotland thus challenged the unconstitutional nature of our subjugation through Brexit, I believe Scotland’s Brexit would be deemed unlawful

    I’m not a lawyer breeks, but this is not what i have heard from those who are.

    peatworrier points out that the position isnt clear cut, bringing a case against the government would illicite a ruling, but it wouldnt be in our favour.

    i doubt anyone will be surprised by that. there is no justice for us in the uk. ask stu or craig murray

    this is why cherry isnt pursuing this line.
    her slogan is

    “forget brexit, that ship has sailed. full ahead for independence”

  159. OC says:

    Not all in stirling are in this category. There are a few of us aghast at what’s going on… albeit not enough to make a difference.

    What happened with the selection for Westminster 2019 was shameful. We were clearly being set up to vote a particular way based on the steer at the hustings I was at, but then just to be safe we didn’t get a vote anyway. I can only hope the process to find a candidate to replace Bruce Crawford will be better. Time will tell.

  160. Terence callachan says:

    Once again we have some more people on here saying they won’t vote SNP

    I think they’re full of ……

    If you really do support Scottish independence it takes precedence over everything else
    It doesn’t matter what is going on within the party if the party is increasing support for Scottish independence

    All this stuff about AR and JC and Edinburgh central and Stirling is just cannon fodder for the NO camp

    Some people really do think they are more important than they actually are
    Politicians will come and go
    Don’t change a winning team even if you don’t particularly like the players or the manager

  161. schrodingers cat says:


    wingers mostly come and go, but most of the lifers have now deserted wos completely

    they prefer to spend their time on pro indy sites

  162. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC (11.04) –

    ‘i dont remember him commenting on wos tho’, he couldnt have been that memorable’

    It’s as well he doesn’t come here any more cause that would hurt him to the quick so it would.


  163. crazycat says:

    @ Schrodingers Cat at 11.04

    Try this :

    An entire article, not just a comment!

  164. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @WhoRattledYourCage (11.09) –

    Machiavellian Masturbation Madness supported Johnny & The Self Abusers at The Doune Castle in 1980.

  165. David McCann says:

    Here is my own tupponce worth for what it’s worth in my own name!
    Ever wondered how the UK spooks would tackle the consistent popularity of Scottish independence?
    Maybe set up a pro indy site like ‘Wings’ and capture all those who support it, and then infiltrate it with a constant drip feed of anti SNP propaganda– ?
    Just a thought!!

  166. CameronB Brodie says:

    schrodingers cat
    ““forget brexit, that ship has sailed. full ahead for independence””

    You’ve just reminded us you are not trained in law, so why try to give us legal advice? You don’t even respect the rule-of-law, according to your own admission.

    Scotland’s case may be uncertain, viewed through the lens of British constitutional practice. However, it’s pretty obvious Peatworrier lacks competence in constitutional law, international law, and human rights law.

  167. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Bob Mack 9:19pm
    My apologies. I forget it has only been six years the FM has had to come up with something. Indeed anything“.

    Yes, only six years. Salmond took seven years to deliver a referendum. And that was one he didn’t want, foisted on him by David Cameron to “shoot the nationalist fox“. At what point, during the last six years, do you think independence was a slam dunk If only the SNP went for it?

    @Andy Ellis 11:02pm
    They need to be made aware that THIS IS THE INDEPENDENCE ELECTION and the acid test of, who is and who is not; for Scotland.

    Yet again, we agree. With the polls moving in favour of independence, and the Unionists resigning themselves to it, independence has never been more attainable. If the SNP get a majority, and the polls remain in favour of independence, then they have to go for it, with or without Westminster’s approval.

  168. Random Guy says:

    Look, let’s bring something out into the light to examine it, see whether it’s real or not, right or wrong. I have heard from several different people, in several different places, none of whom know each other, that Nicola Sturgeon is gay, and has a Dunblane love nest with a French diplomat. If this is true, and I personally believe it is, it would totally explain her obsession with sexual minority rights, her not acting against some of the misogynist filth clogging up the party, and explain her being compromised politically. She’s 50, she comes from a different generation, when gays were not so open. Ironic, now, that she’s holding court over a time when screeching mentally ill minorities are ruining the SNP, ‘her own’ party.

    Conspiracy theory? Who knows. It needs to be discussed. Because this insane, country-destroying shit quite simply CANNOT go on any longer.

  169. William Habib Steele says:

    I’ve been thinking that the recent stitch-ups of Alex Salmond, Joanna Cherry and James Dornan, etc bore the marks of infiltration into the SNP hierarchy by the British state. I’m still unconvinced that they are not.

    I’ve also been wondering if SNP members who want independence need to abandon the party and join one that really does want independence and will field candidates in the constituencies as well as the regions. I hope not and that the SNP can be returned from being the Stop Brexit Party, a party whose concern is England, to being a Scottish Independence Party.

  170. Random Guy says:

    ‘Ian Brotherhood says:

    1 August, 2020 at 11:21 pm
    @WhoRattledYourCage (11.09) –

    Machiavellian Masturbation Madness supported Johnny & The Self Abusers at The Doune Castle in 1980.’

    Was Jim Kerr in them then? 🙂

  171. Andy Ellis says:


    You’re answering someones else’s words @11.02, not mine.

    You’re still full of it tho’! Unionists resigning themselves to it? Unicorns and fairytales.

    It’d be sad if it wasn’t truly laughable.

  172. Robert Graham says:

    A comment on another site , kinda raised an eyebrow

    Nicola can’t be all things to all men
    The SNP are no longer a party of protest they have evolved

    Well that’s ducking interesting ,what is the purpose of independence then ? if not a protest against the present circumstances , and evolved into what exactly mimicking the Tory & Labour Party, oh god set your sights and ambitions high friend you could be like the other lying hunts,

    By the you disruptive plebs who post disparaging remarks about the present administration get it as well it’s you folks that are causing all this disruption aye yer a bloody nuisance you lot

  173. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @WhoRattledYourCage (11.09) –

    Brilliant stuff, really enjoyed it and am properly pissed-off I didn’t see it long before now. And you wrote it almost a year ago?

    More power to you sah!


  174. Robert Graham says:

    By the way all you people not voting for the SNP are depriving everyone else of the chance to keep torturing the elected MSPs and urging them to get on with it ,

    they are obliged to answer any and all your searching questions.

    So give us a bloody Break you are taking away a rewarding hobby from a lot of us with a nasty streak and time on their hands ha ha ,

    it’s the bloody house arrest it’s getting to me .

    What’s that you say I am free ? , Aye stop taking the piss .

  175. schrodingers cat says:

    ““forget brexit, that ship has sailed. full ahead for independence””

    these are joanna cherry’s words, not mine

    You’ve just reminded us you are not trained in law, so why try to give us legal advice?

    I’m not, im merely retelling what Peatworrier said

  176. CameronB Brodie says:

    schrodingers ca
    JC appears to view the world through the lens of British constitutionalism. Peatwarier is like yourself, just some arsehole with an opinion, only better informed.

  177. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Andy Ellis

    Apologies. It was Colonel Blimp who made that post. I just saw your name at the top and assumed.

    As to your dismissal of the Unionist pessimism; this from Tory house magazine, The Spectator;

    In recent weeks, the polls have consistently shown independence ahead. Scottish Unionists are downhearted. When I asked one of the most impressive figures from 2014 how things were going, the answer came simply: ‘It’s over. The horse has bolted.’

    Such pessimism might be an over-reaction to bad polls, but it is worrying how convinced some Unionists are that any second referendum would be lost. Downing Street’s refusal to grant one in this parliament could come under immense pressure after the Scottish parliament elections next year“.

    As I’ve said over and over on these threads, independence is more attainable than ever. This isn’t the time to descend into squabbling.

  178. schrodingers cat says:


    Delighted to confirm I will not be standing for selection in Edinburgh Central 🙂

  179. CameronB Brodie says:

    Has Peatworrie expressed an opinion re. the GRA amendments?

    The Problem of Political Authority
    An Examination of the Right to Coerce and the Duty to Obey

  180. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi schrodingers cat at 11:04 pm.

    You typed,
    “i dont remember him commenting on wos tho’, he couldnt have been that memorable”

    Your memory is failing you. Comes to us all. Perchance you should click on this link…

  181. schrodingers cat says:

    I do remember him BDTT.

    i just forgot his name

  182. Benhope says:

    An old cliche is that all political careers end in failure and a Scottish one is that if you fly with the craws you will be shot with the craws.

    Angus Robertson is now identified by the TRUE SNP support as a wokist carpetbagger to try and win the Edinburgh central seat.

    Sadly or not so sadly Angus, the defining moment of your political career is at hand.

  183. schrodingers cat says:

    dragon returns to earth

    they should get these guys to welcome them home 🙂

  184. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CamB –

    If Andrew Tickell, to you, is ‘just another arsehole’ (11.58) why would you be bothered about his opinions on anything?

  185. A Person says:

    Folks, Angus Robertson’s statement tonight is a good sign. It shows that a bunch of cancelled memberships and some grassroots pressure will cause the SNP leadership to take notice.

    Let’s keep the pressure up.

  186. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Me Bungo Pony says:
    1 August, 20

    ” If the SNP get a majority, and the polls remain in favour of independence, then they have to go for it, with or without Westminster’s approval.”

    If INDEPENDENCE gets a majority there is no need for a Referendum – The people will have spoken…and said YES!

    Even if the SNP had not spent the last several years trying to undermine the Brexit Referendum RESULT.And denigrating wildcat referendums, and the Westminster Government not made it abundantly clear that they will not shoot themselves in the foot three times in a row by sanctioning a referendum they are not certain of winning.

    Sidestepping a plebiscite election at a time when both the SNP and independence are higher in the polls than they have ever been. in favour of a pre-discredited referendum at some unspecified time in the future (if the signs are still good) … Seems more than a tad disingenuous.

  187. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    I appreciate PW is a professor in law, but he appears to have a particular outlook. I just think his views re. the GRA would give an indication of his legal opinion, on a topic of interest that isn’t apparently constitutional. Though of course it is.

  188. defo says:

    Ian B, he’s here.

    Dan Yell says: at 7:18 pm
    “Rev Stu, why don’t you just shut the fuck up, you ugly cunt?”

  189. CameronB Brodie says:

    sorry….would give an indication of the quality of his legal opinion

  190. Beaker says:

    A single issue of independence will blow most SNP candidates out of the water during interviews.

    If SNP candidate A answers “Oh everything will be ok after independence”, the very next question will be “how?”. They answer “oh we will do this and that.” The next question will be “where does it tell me this in your manifesto?”. It will snowball from there.

    I’ve trained people to interview. A good interviewer does a lot of preparation work beforehand. They will list their questions and will know what answers they expect to hear.

    Lawyers, police (if you are the accused) and the media tend to be brutal (especially lawyers). For lawyers and journalists there is an unwritten rule that you try not to ask a question you do not already know the answer to.

    Look at the way Andrew Neil works. I saw him wipe the floor with Ken Livingston a couple of years ago. It was brutal. Neil had done his homework and every answer was shown to be complete bollocks. I’ve never seen a man so deflated.

    Politicians are masters of deflection techniques, and rarely answer a question directly. Boris is the undisputed champion, preferring to bluster his way through and charge off in another direction. You can’t do that if you only have one policy on your manifesto.

  191. TJenny says:

    Beaker – I don’t think we should try to define what indy will be, as everyone has a different vision and it clogs the message/reply. We should respond in the same way that the Brexiteers did re leaving the EU, (in their case no more immigrants, no more sending £billions to EU etc) by stating what it wont be.

    No more WM keeping more of our money than they send back to us
    No morre WM dictats on how much of the money borrowed on our behalf we are actually allocated
    No more WM depriving us of our rights to EU membership
    No more WM telling us what Scotland can or can’t do. etc

    I’m sure others can add to the list of actions that WM deny us, which holds Scotland back.

    In fact, just no more WM interference in Scotland at all.

  192. TJenny says:

    WhoRattledYourCage @11.09 – that was indeed an excellent blog post and like Ian B, I don’t think I’d read it before either. Still, all to the good as I’ve read it now. I wonder if Stu has? You could always post it on his soapbox, if he agreed. Or an updated version if you wanted, but it stands the test of time and is just as relevant today. 🙂

  193. twathater says:

    WRYC read your blogpost very entertaining and left a comment

  194. Al-Stuart says:

    So that’s it then.

    Nicola’s McWoke Brigade have cost us what, under normal circumstances would have been a brilliant result…

    Joanna Cherry MSP – 2021 Intake.
    Angus Robertson MSP – 2021 Intake.

    Five years ago, I would have rejoiced at that project. Now we need turn-charged Rentokil to get rid of the lethal McWokeinfection.

    The SNP have caught political clap.

    This will become evident when the silent, Nicola-loving MSM become much more vociferous in March and April 2021 just ahead of Holyrood elections.

    Two days too late Angus has grown a spine agin the McWokers and said the SNP NEC were WRONG and should now overturn their decision. This is based on:-

    * PELTERS Anus Ribertson has been getting from social media and..

    * The fact Joanna Cherry has formally resiled her interest in standing for the SNP in Edinburgh South.

    * WOS:

    There are rumours that Marco Biagi, freshly back from his Ph.D in America may stand In Edinburgh South. But having had an earlier SNP MSP stint with his political career flucked due to a pathetic 237 majority, he would be daft to take on Edinburgh South again

    Angus Robertson’s local credibility is flushed down the toilet and he smells of political urinal-cake with it.

    So instead of what should have happened: two quality MSPs standing and getting elected to Hoyrood in 2021 in different seats, we have excrement.

    The only good thing is Joanna Cherry may be nudged nearer to Alex Salmond’s BIG PLAN soon to be launched via the initial medium of the book at his publishers. The GUARANTEED INDYREF2 LIST PARTY.

    Unlike sweet Mrs Fanny Adams Murrell, when Alex Salmond wins an election, he ACTUALLY USES THE MANDATE..

    Poor old Edinburgh South. They just got rid of Baroness Ruth of RapeClause and are now to have some supine Tory Testicle-Grabber such as Ross Thomson. Or the McWoker McWankers at SNP-HQ will inflict Bendy Brenda BigBaws fae the P.I.Exchange repeat with “her” 9 inch schlong itching to get her/his/it’s new SNP power credentials unleashed at the children’s changing rooms of Drumsheugh Public Swimming Baths. Either that or Derek McKay will have been processed by the McWoke Perv., Rehabilitation of Retread Politicians Division and able to resume his rightful position by Nicola’s side.

    Derek McKay has plans for the new Rights To Same Sex Marriage (Age Immaterial) (Scotland) Bill 2022. The one that allows Derek to send Tweets chatting up 16 year old school boys and trying to bed them with yon: “your cute, pls send me naughty pictures” patter.

    Jeezo, when did the 77th Brigade manage to plan and pull off such a mass infiltration of the SNP?

  195. Mialuci says:

    Aye fight you may die, run and you’ll live at least at least a while.
    And dying in your bed many years from now.
    Would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that.
    For one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies.
    That they may take our lives, but they’ll never take our freedom.

    Alba Gu Bra

  196. Mialuci says:

    The old eyes are not as good as they where two at leasts are one to many lol

    I was thinking, should cameron not get a site of his own, he has outgrown wings and its only fair that we all wish him or her bon voyage and don’t hurry back lol

  197. Mialuci says:

    I think we should have a joke of the week.
    I will start it all off on monday coming
    I think a maximum of 5 jokes per day on wings is plenty

  198. Willie says:

    Robertson is dead meat. His arrogance, his sense of entitlement, his connivance to undermine and restrict open contests, has now ensured that he has no chance whatsoever of winning the Edinburgh Hollywood seat.

    And he now knows it.

    His Tweet last night to say that he thinks that the NEC decision to restrict sitting MPs from standing for election was wrong tells you that. But it will be to no avail. He is gone. The connivance, the bloated arrogant sense of entitlement, has destroyed him.

    And it will destroy others too. Scotland and its electors are not a fiefdom to be taken for granted. Neither are ordinary well intentioned party members to be taken for granted, their right to have the best candidate choices restricted as the coterie of control plays fast and loose with vetting and selection.

    Yes Angus Robertson will be gone. His political death warrant has been signed.

  199. Kevin Kennedy says:

    Smith as leader.


  200. Morgatron says:

    I’ve just read the James Dornan piece in the Times. It quotes him saying that “the effects of Covid has reignited his desire to help his constituents ” wow, so what the fuck has he been doing all these years. Answering trolls on twitter? I thought he was a good guy, by fuck was I wrong. I’m glad he’s had the shaft , just like his constituents for the 10 years they’ve had him as an Msp. Lazy and self serving. Phew!

  201. mk13 says:

    Even the English are realising the BBC are biased! Read the comments about the propaganda piece on the chancellor’s plan on the UK economy, some may make you smile!

  202. Sensibledave says:

    TJenny 1.37

    …. you are a bit arse backwards there!

    The messaging was presented as “positives”.

    “Take back control of our laws, our money and our borders … was the key messaging.”

  203. willie says:

    Meanwhile to change the subject this fine Sunday morning, like the long forgotten Jackson Five, our man of five months leadership of the Tories in Scotland is already forgotten after only a few days.

    Aye Jackson’s Five!

  204. Effijy says:

    I am awakening to discover that a Tory MP and Former Cabinet Minister
    Has been accused of rape by one of his aids.

    The aid was so traumatised that they had to go to hospital.

    This is very serious but equally serious from my own outlook is the comparison
    To Alex Salmond’s case.

    Why is it Salmond’s name as the accused is splashed across the world’s media
    Instantly and yet if it happens to a Tory, his name must be protected?

    Can anyone explain something different to the conclusion I’ve made about UK justice and media?

    Douglas Ross, the great white hope of a Scottish Tory who can count on his fingers.
    Do you recall Paul Sweany, Labour MP, stating that Ross tried to put his hand down Sweaney’s
    Trousers in the Stranger’s Bar in Westminster.
    Sweaney said there were several witnesses and I’d be astonished if it wasn’t on CCTV.
    This followed an earlier allegation of Ross groaning another man earlier that month.

    So the parliamentary Standards group, the Tory Party and the Met Police seem to have descended
    That Tory MP’s grouping strangers is quite acceptable!

    You may also recall his second job, that Tories say shouldn’t exists for MP’s is as a football referee.
    He heads off to assist in European matches leaving his constituents high and dry.

    So Ross is the best the Tories have in Scotland?

    This is someone who should be on the Sex offenders register not the Holyrood list.

  205. Mike d says:

    Tory mp arrested on suspicion of rape. Wonder how long he’ll be hounded for?.not.

  206. Ottomanboi says:

    Independence means not just getting predatory England off our back but also freedom from unaccountable globalist organizations with links to well funded, neo-imperialist influencers, corporations and the like seeking to undermine or appropriate the sovereign rights of nations and peoples in order to promote socio-political programmes of their own.
    Management of the alleged global consequences of Covid-19 disease has exposed major national failings in that regard.

  207. Bryan Weir says:

    I wonder what would turn up if someone did a forensic examination of Tweets and stuff uttered by Rev Stu in the past?

  208. schrodingers cat says:

    I’m calling this out. this isnt reasoned debate. its nothing more than abusive trolling of your good self and a respected Professor of Law. these people add nothing to wos.

    Dan Yell says:
    “Rev Stu, why don’t you just shut the fuck up, you ugly cunt?”

    CameronB Brodie says:
    Peatworrier (Andrew Tickle) is like yourself, just some arsehole with an opinion, only better informed.

  209. stuart mctavish says:

    Excellent news if he can manage it since the debate between himself and Cherry would have been the opportunity for SNP to reassure the nation that plan B was still feasible whilst better communicating how slow and steady will win the race (in tandem with the cunning plan A to elevate Ruth Davidson the house of Lords!).

    Good also if the NEC can explain away Willie’s second point on the previous post and reclaim their motive as either integral to plans A & B or, perhaps better yet, a devious plot to maximise exposure to an extremely viable contingency in the Wings..

  210. Walter Jones says:

    Mungo and here pussy pussy and robbo.

    Three cheeks that belong to the same arse.

    Sent here by SNP HQ.

    Ignore please, because it only encourages him.

  211. Rm says:

    Make every politician an independent so they can’t hide behind a party, let them express their views, you would soon find out how genuine they are and are only answerable to the people who voted them in, if they start abusing the post their in sack them, if they can’t or won’t answer a question sack them and if they tell lies sack them, if it was that way just now we’d be lucky if there were 100 politicians in a job in the whole world, wrong people telling us how to live our lives most of them think they deserve to be there, if I don’t do my job I’d be sacked, start afresh sack the lot and get real genuine people in to do a good job.

  212. Andy Ellis says:

    @Bungo 12

    You said: “As I’ve said over and over on these threads, independence is more attainable than ever. This isn’t the time to descend into squabbling.”

    As ever, you fail to engage or provide any convincing evidence or back up for your assertion, for that is all that it is, that somehow British Unionists will cave in to the irresistible pressure felt when the % in favour of indy in Scotland increases.

    In fact, any reasonable person would conclude that the opposite is the case. Yoons will be even LESS inclined to honour the Edinburgh Agreement precedent. The fact Scots unionists know the game is up in the long term signifies nothing: their britnat masters in Westminster will treat them with the same contempt they do non-unionist Scots.

    The reason more and more people are waking up to the fact that your point is (as folk like Stu have been arguing for months) utter nonsense, is that they can see the balance of probabilities. Of course nothing is guaranteed in politics, and much can happen in 9 months, but the idea that indy is “more attainable than ever” simply isn’t credible.

    The current SNP have shown next to zero commitment to making it happen. It is much more likely that unless the SNP is prevailed upon, or forced by its membership, to change tack we won’t see indyref2 this decade.

    The fact that you and other SNP ultras keep saying this isn’t true, while studiously avoiding any discussion of how this will be brought about tells us everything we need to know.

  213. Stonky says:

    @Bryan Weir says:

    “I wonder what would turn up if someone did a forensic examination of Tweets and stuff uttered by Rev Stu in the past?”

    With a bit of luck they might find a selfie of him riding with the Ku Klux Klan. Then he could become the Convenor of some Wokist shite thing and join the SNP’s NEC.

  214. John H. says:

    A Person says:
    2 August, 2020 at 12:38 am

    Folks, Angus Robertson’s statement tonight is a good sign. It shows that a bunch of cancelled memberships and some grassroots pressure will cause the SNP leadership to take notice.

    Let’s keep the pressure up.
    It’s not good enough that they pretend to have seen the light. They are still the same people who have hijacked the party, and they will return to form when things quiten down. Some of them at least will have to go.

  215. schrodingers cat says:


    the idea that indy is “more attainable than ever” simply isn’t credible.

    didnt MBP point out that support for indy is now at a consistently high point of 54%?

    it has the unionist press in meltdown, they believe this is a credible idea. so do I

  216. Phydaux says:

    Angus Robertson is now trying to undo the damage caused by the stooshie over the NEC emergency meeting to prevent Joanna Cherry from standing at Holyrood. The suddenness and speed of the NEC meeting was eye-wateringly blatant and stupid. Are the SNP hierarchy so up themselves they failed to realise how this would be perceived? And that it would not be forgotten? They don’t seem to even see the dots, never mind join them up.

    Their collective insecurity and panic over pro-Indy List parties is palpable. The thing is, the likes of Angus Robertson, Pete Wishart, Alan Smiyth, Humza Yousaf et al cannot continue to take the moral high ground, ignore, criticise and denigrate those in the Yes movement without becoming obnoxious themselves. Auf Wiedersehen Herr Robertson. Next?

  217. Walter Jones says:

    What is Sturgeon saying about the Robertson/Cherry fiasco???

    Or does Sturgeon only comment on english Brexit and Covid19???

    From what I here, she is a constant Twitter user, so what are her latest posts about???

    It surely has to be about the fall of her corrupt Party.

    Scotland is desperate for a Party who will fight for Scottish Independence, so hopefully there are honest men and women out there who believe in Independence and who will be planning our next chapter as we speak.

  218. Andy Ellis says:


    So tell us, how does this credible 54% translate into indyref2, and when?

    Or are we obliged to wait until it’s 60% or 66%? Will you be taking this from opinion polls? How long do they have to be at that level before the gradualists finally pull the trigger on the campaign starting gun?

    And of course, the $64,000 question still hanging over you: What happens when Boris simply says “Now is not the time” again and suggests you get back to him after a real generation has elapsed since 2014.

    We’ll wait for your plan…..

  219. schrodingers cat says:

    who said anything about indyref2?

    all elections in scotland going forward will be plebiscites on independence. thats just a simple fact.

    if the snp win with 50%+. its game over.

    you ask what happens if and when bojo says no. I maintain that wos isnt the forum to discuss this. go figure

  220. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Mialuci @ 5.29am

    Re your five jokes per day:

    Sensible Dave



    nominations please for the other two.

  221. Andrew F says:

    It seems the “Wokes” are part of a larger plan.

    The “Davos” folks from the World Economic Forum launched their “Great Reset” in July. It’s a plan to remake the world on the back of COVID. Last October they ran a conference in New York called Event 201 to workshop what they might do if their was a coronovirus pandemic one day. So they were definitely prepared.

    Part of The Great Reset is called “Strategic Intelligence”, and part of that is “LGBQTI+ Inclusion”.

    On their website ( they have a lot of pages about it. One is titled: “Great Reset: Why LGBT+ inclusion is the secret to cities’ post-pandemic success”.

    Some snippets:

    • Economies that are more inclusive are better placed to recover from the shocks of the COVID-19 pandemic.

    • A strong positive correlation exists between LGBT+ inclusion and economic resilience.

    • In particular, cities that embrace diversity may reap an ‘inclusion dividend’ as they begin to rebuild their economies.

    As the world continues to grapple with the unprecedented global health crisis of COVID-19, the scale of the related global economic crisis is becoming increasingly clear. We are facing the sharpest economic contraction since the Great Depression in the 1930s, according to the United Nations – threatening to roll back decades of progress in the fight against poverty.

    At the same time as taking emergency measures to minimize the immediate economic impacts of the pandemic, governments around the world are looking to position themselves for recovery. A new analysis of economic resilience offers a potential clue to which economies may be able to recover faster: LGBT+ inclusion is correlated to the resilience of a country’s economy.

    The analysis by Open For Business, a coalition of companies advancing LGBT+ equality, shows a strong positive correlation (0.67) between how resilient an economy is and how accepting it is of LGBT+ people (see the chart below). This is a significant finding: a one-point increase in social acceptance suggests a three-point increase in that economy’s economic resilience index, even when controlling for GDP per capita. Could LGBT+ inclusion be a secret ingredient for economic resilience?

    The answer may lie in the world’s cities.

    Cities have been at the frontline of the pandemic – and they may hold the key to global economic recovery. The connection between economic resilience and social inclusion is particularly clear in urban areas. There is a growing body of evidence that LGBT+ inclusive cities have stronger “innovation ecosystems”, higher levels of entrepreneurialism, and they are better able to attract talent and provide a high quality of life – making them well placed for economic recovery.

    The connection between resilience and inclusion is widely accepted by policy-makers. The World Bank describes “inclusive communities” as a key dimension of sustainable, resilient cities. The OECD identifies “inclusive society” as a driver of resilience in a city. The IMF contends that an economy is “more fragile and less resilient when it is not inclusive”. A report by UN Habitat finds that inclusion is required for a “successful urban resilience agenda”.

    Now is the time to be embracing LGBT+ communities, not stigmatizing them. Creating inclusive societies isn’t just the right thing to do; as the evidence shows, it’s an important part of an economic strategy focused on resilience and recovery.

    So the Wokes have some very powerful friends with very ambitious ideas for the world, which might help explain things a bit.

  222. Andy Ellis says:


    No, you’re just factually wrong. Elections to Holyrood or Westminster are only plebiscitary if the pro-indy parties fielding candidates in those election specifically stand on a platform that gaining 50% + 1 of the votes will represent de facto independence. There will be no international recognition, and thus no independence, without that level of clarity.

    As for WoS not being the forum to discuss this, the “don’t show the enemy your cards” pish becomes no more convincing for the constant repetition. The Sturgeonites don’t have a cunning plan, or indeed any clue.

    Perhaps the very public humiliation of the NEC and the unsavoury cabal driving the party into a cul-de-sac have over-reached themselves? I do hope so: that stable has been due a good mucking out for a while.

  223. schrodingers cat says:

    @Socrates MacSporran

    nominations please for the other two.

    oor very ain and much beloved and greatly missed “rory” the lion 🙂

  224. schrodingers cat says:

    As for WoS not being the forum to discuss this, the “don’t show the enemy your cards”

    if bojo says no, then the democratic route is at an end. so is devolution, and the concept of political parties.

    what will an indy list party do in this situation?

    no. if this happens, I believe the next move would be civil disobedience. thats why wos isnt a suitable place for such a discussion.

    keeping cards close to your chest is a political tactic. If bojo says no, politics ends. so does card playing.

    if you want to outline what you think we should do if bojo says no, fill yer boots

    what will an indy list party do in this situation? what can it do?

  225. stonefree says:

    @ Socrates MacSporran at 6:08 pm

    It’s my believe that Sturgeon/Murrell have records and notes of the little (or in some cases greater)foibles of MPs MSPs and Councillors and activists. Consider Derek Mackay ,Mark McDonald and others.
    Neale Hanvey I feel was slightly different,BUT for him to accept readmission , is capitulation. His integrity/credibility are gone
    To have total control is what Sturgeon/Murrell want, nothing less.
    At present I struggle to think of over five they can’t control,
    As I typed this I wondered What happens when they can’t control Smith and wok clique, Smith turns on them, and it’s will happen!!!

  226. Colin Alexander says:

    The SNP, SSP, ISP always were and always will be doomed to failure. If success is measured by Scotland’s independence.

    How? They had/have the British politics mindset.

    A majority of seats = a mandate.

    For Scotland in British politics that creates two unsurmountable problems:

    1. Scottish independence will NEVER gain a majority of votes at UK Parliament.

    2. A majority of pro-indy seats at Holyrood counts for NOTHING under the UK constitution.

    So, what’s the latest plans from the indy movement? Win more seats at Holyrood.

    It’s the indy movement equivalent of the FM asking again for another s30.

    It is the height of stupidity, pissing in the wind, tokenism at its best. The ISP is ultimately about feminists fighting the SNP on GRA which arguably is something worth voting for but, terrible SNP policies is no what my comment is about.

    If you still believe that indyref1 proves my comment is wrong: Stop reading. If you haven’t grasped the concept yet that indyref1 was about KILLING off independence forever, then no point in wasting your time reading my comment.

    If you belief indyref1 was the gold standard and Scotland had a fair chance of achieving indy that time, then you’ve been in Nicola Sturgeon’s company too long.

  227. Michael Laing says:

    Why do the SNP/Sturgeon-apologists amongst the commenters here keep insisting that independence will happen just because the opinions polls indicate 54% in favour? Constantly repeating the same illogical, evidence-free mantra doesn’t make it any more true and isn’t going to convince anyone. It wouldn’t matter if there was 100% support for independence: it isn’t going to happen without the political will and a mechanism to bring it about; one that doesn’t involve begging for Westminster’s permission. After six years of zero progress and with a leader of the SNP who seems embarrassed to even mention the word ‘independence’, let alone actually do anything about it, I think we’re entitled to say ‘enough is enough; your time is up’.

    And that’s to say nothing of all the other gerrymandering, conspiracy, legal persecution and anti-scientific mumbo-jumbo that’s going on.

    We need politicians who will campaign passionately and convincingly for independence and take the necessary action to bring it about. With the SNP as it currently stands, we have nothing of the kind.

    If you aren’t going to engage with people’s questions directly, why bother commenting at all?

  228. Colin Alexander says:

    Scotland already has a pro-indy majority at Holyrood. What has it achieved: nothing, except create an egotistical monster out of N. Sturgeon.

    Scotland’s place in the Union is now constitutionally much weaker than prior to indyref1. (Which was already wea)k.

    Devolution has weakened Scotland’s political influence even further, not strengthened it.

    1. With devolution- Scotland’s MPs went from 71 to 59.

    2. EVEL – the 59 MPs are now also second-class MPs.

    3. The Devolution settlement is now worthless. Only fit for SNP / Green sex ideology extremists to force their ideology on the Scotland colony. UK Parliament overrules Scot Parl at will. Power grabbed powers. And UK has legislated to ignore or by-pass it completely.

  229. Colin Alexander says:

    Electing 60-75% “pro-indy” MSPs is a waste of time.

    They will be as powerless as 100% pro-indy MSPs under the British.

    At every opportunity we should be rejecting British politics, not joining in with it.
    SOVEREIGNTY OF THE PEOPLE, not power of parliaments: that is our strength.

  230. Bob Mack says:

    Many people were only a few short days ago feeling powerless to stop the SNP from self destruction. You never were or will be powerless.

    Every time a member resigns it affects their two most essential requirements. Your money and your time.

    Make it clear you do so because of their current choices.

    Let’s reclaim the party. Do it today. You have seen overnight a change of direction through these actions.

    Rev,keep exposing the malady in our midst.

  231. Andy Ellis says:


    Again, you are in error. The democratic route doesn’t end when Boris says (as he inevitably will) “Now is not the time” again, because the sub-text to that is not that britnats are saying “you can never vote unless we agree” (à la Madrid/Catalonia), but that they can dangle the prospect of #indyref2 on the same terms as #indyref1 over our heads until it suits them.

    I’d be all for SNP MPs making life at Westminster procedural hell for the yoons and/or for passive resistance, civil disobedience etc but that’s not an end in itself, it has to be as an adjunct to Plan B. That’d be the Plan B the hapless incompetents in the SNP leadership have set their faces against.

    To re-iterate, the international community will simply not accept that a movement that jumps straight from a refusal by Westminster to grant #indyref2 to civil disobedience and UDI should have its aspirations recognised. It WOULD be quite likely to recognise independence declared on the basis of gaining >50% in an election declared by us to be plebiscitary, particularly after a refusal on Westminster’s part to honour the 2012-14 Edinburgh Agreement precedent.

    Given the unreasoning nature of the little Englader electorate of course, it is even likely that they can be prevailed upon to vote for “English independence” on much the same basis as they voted for “LeaveEU”, in spite of the fact it’s obvious to anyone with 2 brain cells it will result in a worse political and economic outcome. They are, as we have seen, quite capable of terminating the union in a fit of pique at uppity jocks not knowing their place just as they were capable of leaving the EU because they disliked foreigners and uncritically swallowed all the agitprop about Brussels being in control.

    You keep asking for details of what we do when Boris says no, and people keep telling you: Plan B is plebiscitary elections. It’s madness for the SNP not to have this in pace already. It’s a simple announcement, eminently achievable and promises early and relatively painless international recognition. Your (lack of) alternative punts indyref2 into the long grass of the 2030’s if we’re luck.

    What a shameful want of ambition or courage.

  232. Colin Alexander says:

    DO NOT accept what you are given: limited choices from party manifestos. Parties deciding what they will offer you.

    If a political party or candidate does not put in writing, unconditionally: “The people of Scotland are sovereign” do not vote for them.

    Don’t vote for SNP sophistry such as: “I believe, it is my belief”. No.

    It must be straight asserted fact:

    The people of Scotland are sovereign.

  233. mike cassidy says:

    S Cat

    if bojo says no, then the democratic route is at an end. so is devolution, and the concept of political parties. ……I believe the next move would be civil disobedience. thats why wos isnt a suitable place for such a discussion.

    That’s plan B

    Civil Disobedience emerging from a party about to make it illegal to say ‘men cannot become women’

    That’s about as likely as George Galloway doing this.

  234. Colin Alexander says:

    Any party or candidate that believes in Scottish independence MUST seek one clear mandate only:

    The people of Scotland are sovereign. Their sovereignty is held in common by the people, not belonging to any single person, group, institution or organ of state.

    Scotland’s national sovereignty is the people of Scotland.

    Thus, if 50% +1 of the sovereign people of Scotland vote for this policy: the Treaty of Union is cancelled. Scotland shall automatically become an independent sovereign state known as “Scotland”.

  235. schrodingers cat says:

    it WOULD be quite likely to recognise independence declared on the basis of gaining >50% in an election declared by us to be plebiscitary, particularly after a refusal on Westminster’s part to honour the 2012-14 Edinburgh Agreement precedent.


    i’m not sure we would get international recognition or that bojo wouldnt still say no.

    my point was that if he does, the route to independence moves away from political parties. civil disobedience isnt the job for a political party. its ours

  236. Colin Alexander says:

    An independent Scotland would be bound only by the laws of Scotland and international law.

    United Kingdom constitutional law would be rendered obsolete. Dis-applied.

    No need for civil disobedience against the UK or whatever England, Wales and N.Ireland would call itself. They would have no legal jurisdiction over Scotland.

  237. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Andy Ellis 9:44am
    As ever, you fail to engage or provide any convincing evidence or back up for your assertion, for that is all that it is, that somehow British Unionists will cave in to the irresistible pressure felt when the % in favour of indy in Scotland increases“.

    …. and ….

    The fact that you and other SNP ultras keep saying this isn’t true, while studiously avoiding any discussion of how this will be brought about tells us everything we need to know“.

    The percentages indicate the liklieness an indyref would lead to independence. They also indicate the liklieness we would get that indyref. They have never looked so healthy for independence. You have been provided with plenty of evidence for that (Indy at 54%, SNP at 55%, Sturgeon by far the most popular politician in the British Isles, Unionists in a blind panic) but choose to pretend you have been given nothing. “None so blind as will not see” as they say.

    As to your second assertion above, I have already given you the scenario I think should play out to how it will be “brought about“. To refresh your memory;

    Me Bungo Pony wrote (Giving Up On Independence: 18/7/20 9:15am)
    As far as I’m concerned, “the plan” should be;

    Step1: get sustained majority support for independence in the polls (that has begun thanks to Nicola Sturgeon)

    Step2: get an SNP govt in Holyrood with a comfortable majority (looking very probable, again thanks to Nicola Sturgeon, if the Pop-Ups don’t manage to sabotage it)

    Step3: give Westminster a final chance to grant an S30 order on the back of Steps 1&2 being achieved, thereby possibly putting the issue beyond doubt (they won’t grant it)

    Step4: assuming Cummings refuses a S30 order, declare the sovereignty of the Scottish people and hold a confirmatory referendum without Westminster’s permission*. With Steps 1&2 firmly in place and a sympathetic EU/international community, it is our best chance of achieving independence …. in my opinion.
    (* edited for more clarity)

    Perhaps you are just forgetful of what has been said to you. Hopefully that is all it is. But I am still waiting to hear your scenario for independence sooner rather than later that does not require the SNP to do something you claim they have no intention of doing …. with evidence of course 😉 .

  238. cirsium says:

    Just catching up with reading the btl comments. Breeks, that was a cracking comment you made at 11.02pm 1 August. Joanna Cherry based her case on Scots constitutional law which follows from the principle that the Scottish people are sovereign. The next election has to be plebiscitary.

  239. Andy Ellis says:


    There are few certainties, but we can be relatively confident that the international community will only grant recognition in particular and limited circumstances. It is now accepted that cases like Quebec, Catalonia and Scotland are unlike “most” other proposed secessions: they are not de-colonisations of former African or Asian imperial possessions, nor are they akin to the dissolution of the USSR or Yugoslavia, or a response to violence or suppression like South Sudan and Timor L’Este.

    As such, potential “new” independent states like Scotland, Catalonia and Quebec face pretty high hurdles to attain UN membership and international recognition. We will be expected to have exhausted all other reasonable steps.

    A lack of good faith negotiation on the part of Westminster will form an important part of the case against British nationalist intransigence, as will refusal to abide by earlier precedent. In addition, we must demonstrate a clear majority in favour, in response to a clear referendum question or plebiscitary platform in an election.

    Any other route will render ultimate recognition much harder.

  240. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Andy Ellis 11:35am
    A lack of good faith negotiation on the part of Westminster will form an important part of the case against British nationalist intransigence, as will refusal to abide by earlier precedent. In addition, we must demonstrate a clear majority in favour, in response to a clear referendum question or plebiscitary platform in an election. Any other route will render ultimate recognition much harder”.

    This is what I have been saying on these threads for weeks now. Why the f*ck are you arguing with me over this?

  241. Stonky says:

    @ mebungopony
    2 August, 2020 at 11:28 am

    That’s a good plan mebungopony.

    Now here’s a suggestion: Lay it out before Nicola and her pals in the cabal and see if they:

    1. Embrace the plan
    2. Shit a collective porcupine

    I know which side of the bet all my money and my Dad’s watch are placed.

  242. Colin Alexander says:

    The fearful among us argue: but the British might no accept Scottish sovereignty. They might crack down on us like Catalonia in Spain.

    This is not Spain. We are not Catalonia.

    But, your thinking is not as stupid as some try to say it is.

    If you are worried about our political leaders being arrested and jailed, that boat has already sailed. That is already happening – or has been attempted, along with political backstabbing, before we are anywhere near any vote for independence.

    The UK is not Spain, it does not use charges of sedition or treason based on breach of a written constitution, it uses trumped up charges like sexual assault etc.

    The state is not using the Police to batter people into fearful submission, they allow the Loyalist heavy mob to do that for them.

  243. Andy Ellis says:


    I’m not forgetful, I’m just correcting your egregious errors in analysis.

    The international community will not recognise a confirmatory referendum held without Westminster’s “consent” or co-operation. Nor is such a referendum necessary. What we need are plebiscitary elections held on a platform of >50% in favour of pro-indy parties results in de facto independence. That IS clear.

    Your “cunning plan” would doubtless be boycotted by many yoons, would be subject to legal challenge and possibly not co-operated with by local authorities responsible for arranging the vote. As such it would be pretty unlikely to gain international recognition.

    So, in summary, I’m still arguing with you because you’re wrong. This isn’t rocket science.

  244. Colin Alexander says:

    Joanna Cherry did NOT win her case by arguing sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

    She knew she could not win by arguing that in a court which upholds sovereignty of parliament via Crown in Parliament.

    Cherry is smarter than trying to argue that in a UK court as the basis of her case.

    It’s true, Cherry did argue Scots constitutional law: that the Parliament of Scotland held the executive (the King) to account.

    Thus, in law, Royal Prerogative (exercised by Govt via Empress Eliabeth’s order to prorogue parliament in the Lords) could not be used to circumvent or prevent parliament’s power in the Commons to legislate or scrutinise the Govt.

    The court agreed the real purpose of the prorogation was to stymie parliament in holding the Govt to account.

  245. Stonky says:

    Oh and by the way MBP:

    “Step2: get an SNP govt in Holyrood with a comfortable majority (looking very probable, again thanks to Nicola Sturgeon, if the Pop-Ups don’t manage to sabotage it)”

    The only way the “Pop-Ups” as you call them could “sabotage” a comfortable SNP majority is if the SNP are struggling in the constituency vote. And if they are struggling in the constituency vote then they will not win a comfortable majority. That is an arithmetical fact. If they are in a position to win any kind of comfortable majority they will win very few list seats. That is an arithmetical fact too. Whereas the “Pop-Ups” could win a very large number of list seats

    And surely a substantial pro-independence majority is even better than a comfortable SNP majority? If the SNP are in a postition to win a comfortable majority, then what the “Pop-Ups” will actually do is add significantly to the number of MSPs committed to independence (cough…)

  246. deerhill says:

    Pardon the interruption Mr WRYC, but I went to your blog, clicked “I understand, I’m a big boy” and was greeted by a page of salmon pink nothingness.

    What am I doing wrong?

  247. john black says:

    Would appear that Jordon is toxic
    Now cancelling my my SNP membership
    Well done

  248. CameronB Brodie says:

    I see the cat is trying to suggest I’m simply an abusive troll. Obviously it’s fine for the cat to suggest I’m a religious loony, just because I understand the law and stuff.

    So it looks like I judged the cat correctly, as he appears to simply be an unprincipled political activist who lacks a solid understanding of how to support democracy. That’s probably why he plays dirty when he’s lost the argument.

  249. Me Bungo Pony says:

    Ellis 11:52am

    No Andy, the reason you are still arguing with me is because you can’t bring yourself to agree with me. Why would you claim a referendum is a valid route to independence in one post (11:35am) and then declare it invalid in the next (11:52am) other than thinking “Oh, that’s MBP’s plan …. I’d better oppose it now“?

    And what is it about these plebiscitary elections that make you think they are a more valid way to go? It would also require Unionist compliance and international recognition. I can find nothing on the web that guarantees it. It falls foul of the very things you claim a referendum falls foul of.

    The Sovereignty of the Scottish People has been recognised in both Holyrood and Westminster. If that is cited to organise a referendum, and confirmed by the Scottish people with a positive result, Westminster would be hard put to deny it and international recognition much more likely to be given.

    Either way, you cannot with any credibility say you haven’t been given evidence for a valid route to independence. It is there in black and white.

  250. CameronB Brodie says:

    Perhaps the cat might like to learn something about constitutional jurisprudence before insisting what is or isn’t possible? The same goes for his hero PW.


  251. Breeks says:

    Colin Alexander says:
    2 August, 2020 at 11:53 am
    Joanna Cherry did NOT win her case by arguing sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

    I didn’t say she did.

    She won based upon the principle that Westminster arbitrary decision to close it’s doors, and thereby remove itself from scrutiny and stymie opposition to the Government’s intentions, was not consistent with a parliament which served the people.

    Under English / UK Law, the Westminster Parliament is not there to serve the people, it is sovereign over those people, and thus, if that argument held water, Boris Johnson’s decision to prorogue Parliament could not be overturned.

    The principle that Parliament, (any Parliament) is there to serve the people, has it’s origins in the Scottish doctrine of popular sovereignty, where the people are sovereign.

    Thus, under English law, there would have been no platform for Joanna Cherry to contest the decision of a ‘Sovereign’ Parliament, and the Supreme Court would have thrown out her case.

    The platform which allowed Joanna Cherry to challenge, and indeed overturn, the will of Westminster, was derived from Scots Law, and the Scottish Constitution which recognises the people as Sovereign, (a doctrine that has no counterpart in English Law – so the principle of a Parliament that is answerable to the people can only be coming from Scotland’s Constitution).

    Joanna Cherry didn’t argue for Scottish Sovereignty, but be in no doubt, it was Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty which established the constitutional principles which Westminster could not overturn – because Westminster is NOT as sovereign as it pretends to be, and Scotland’s popular sovereignty is more potent than most of us suppose.

    Scottish Sovereignty is kryptonite for the Union and Westminster government, and they must avoid exposure to it at all costs. Joanna Cherry has shown us what happens when a constitutional stand-off occurs and Westminster is challenged. Scotland wins, because Scotland’s Constitution has legitimacy and legal potency. The UK in contrast has an unwritten Constitution which fails under scrutiny or challenge, and only survives by shoring up a false and bogus narrative, but it’s a veneer which obscures a truly enormous lie which regrettably enjoys conventional recognition.

    The Constitutional case Joanna Cherry needs to win, is the Constitutional case which Scotland didn’t fight in 1707, and has never fought since.

    Scotland’ Brexit, that is Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation, is gift for us, and gives us all the impetus we require to test the UK’s Sovereignty by convention to destruction, because we Scots should all know that’s a test which the UK Union will fail.

  252. Andy Ellis says:


    My apologies….you’re….you’re just not very bright really are you? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but now I see my mistake.

    The referendum route to indy only works where “both” sides accept it’s a valid route (ask our Catalan friends how it works out when that isn’t accepted). A Scottish independence referendum would very likely be accepted as valid by the international community IF it was on the 2014 pattern, and accepted by Westminster as “legal”.

    A referendum held WITHOUT Westminster approval would very likely be rejected by the international community (see for example the comments of the Spanish Foreign Minister at the time of #indyref1 – they accepted Scottish independence secured via an “agreed” process, but rejected anything that smacked of UDI, just as they continue to reject Kosovan independence today).

    Our Catalan friends on the other hand have no route to a “legal” referendum because Madrid insists that the Spanish constitution prohibits the Catalans (or any other autonomous community in Spain) deciding this for themselves, they have to have agreement from the whole of Spain – so an effective perpetual veto.

    If you haven’t found the evidence, you haven’t looked hard enough, or done basic research. Go do. I’m not your google chimp. There are no guarantees, because international law isn’t like that. It isn’t inevitable one way or the other, particularly in instances like Scotland, Quebec or Catalonia which, whatever the differences in situation, also have many commonalities in as much as they were “supposed” to represent examples of how peoples in supposedly liberal democracies could exercise a right of secession or self determination. That’s worked twice in Canada and once in Scotland, but failed pretty spectacularly in Spain.

    You’re simply factually wrong. It is NOT ENOUGH for the Scottish people to simply assert their right to self determination, organise a referendum and confirm post facto that we’re independent. Westminster would not be hard put at all to deny that route legitimacy, and the international community would side with London not Edinburgh. International recognition in such circumstances is vanishingly unlikely.

    You haven’t presented evidence, you’ve misinterpreted the situation based on faulty knowledge and lack of research. If you’d submitted what passes for your argument as an essay in IR101 you’d have been failed.

  253. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s a bit more legal insight to better inform the cat and PW. Brexit can’t be considered constitutional, as it lacks consideration of socioeconomic law or Natural Law. It is justified entirely through positivist law, which is simply an articulation of political authority that is blind to human rights.

    Human rights and natural law

  254. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Andy Ellis 1:43pm

    So no evidence then? At least just admit it instead of resorting to abuse and contradicting yourself. Where is the evidence that self proclaimed plebicitery elections are more likely to get recognition than a referendum held under the Sovereignty of the Scottish People? Anything …. anything at all?

  255. Andy Ellis says:


    Google is your friend. Go do. Others will not do your homework for you.

    No contradiction has been identified, still less demonstrated by you.

    The evidence is precedent, common sense, international relations and international law. None of this is hard to find, read and analyse: I’m not about to “do a CBB” and cut and paste screeds of secondary sources for you to read.

    As I said: do your own homework. It’s not a sin to be ignorant bud, it IS a sin to be as proud of it as you appear to be.

  256. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    “I’m not about to “do a CBB” and cut and paste screeds of secondary sources for you to read.”

    Would you be abler to? If so, why not support your argument with credible evidence?

  257. crazycat says:

    @ Effijy at 8.26

    You are confusing two Tory Douglases (easily done!).

    The one likely to become branch office leader is Douglas Ross, current MP for Moray, once-and-perhaps-future NE list MSP, and aspiring referee.

    The one who allegedly groped Paul Sweeney is Ross Thomson, also previously a list MSP in the NE, and former MP for Aberdeen South who did not even contest last year’s election, possibly partly because he was widely referred to by the nick-name “SNP gain”.

  258. Andy Ellis says:


    Because then I’d be as boring and as pointless as your contributions to this site are. You’re the WoS equivalent of the pub drunk sat in the corner all day.

    Most folk ignore you and scroll past your cut and paste rantings, the equivalent of folk in the pub hoping you’ll quietly fall face down in your pint without hassling folk.

  259. crazycat says:

    More pedantry:

    Westminster constituencies in Edinburgh:

    South – incumbent Ian Murray (Lab, supposedly)
    South West – incumbent Joanna Cherry

    [+ 3 others]

    Holyrood constituencies in Edinburgh:

    Southern – incumbent Daniel Johnson (Lab; possibly standing down)
    Central– incumbent Ruth Davidson (supposedly standing down, but who knows, given her propensity for changing her mind)

    [+ 4 others]

    Constituency of interest to Joanna Cherry, Angus Robertson, and Marco Biagi (and formerly represented by MB):

    Edinburgh Central (not South, which is not a Holyrood constituency at all, and not even Southern, which is).

  260. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    You appear to object to me sharing my knowledge, which some readers appreciate. So here’s a tip for you sunshine, you take care of your practice and I’ll take care of mine.

  261. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @CBB 2:48pm
    Would you be abler to? If so, why not support your argument with credible evidence?

    Because he can’t CBB.

    @Andy Ellis 2:22pm
    No contradiction has been identified, still less demonstrated by you“.

    Yes there has; “Why would you claim a referendum is a valid route to independence in one post (11:35am) and then declare it invalid in the next (11:52am)

    At 11:35am you wrote;
    In addition, we must demonstrate a clear majority in favour, in response to a clear referendum question or plebiscitary platform in an election. Any other route will render ultimate recognition much harder“.

    Then at 11:52am you wrote;
    The international community will not recognise a confirmatory referendum

    But anyway, it’s not the validity of my preferred scenario that is in question here. It is the complete lack of evidence for your preferred scenario that is of interest. Surely you can proffer at least one bit of evidence?

  262. PJ says:

    Interesting reading…from my experience Sruighlea is corrupt to its very marrow, similarly An Eaglais Bhreac, and the whole Forth Valley area generally. I could tell you all quite a few tales…

  263. Col.Blimp IV says:

    My memory might have a hole in it. So can anyone confirm that Alyn Smith did not resign as an MEP, until AFTER he had won a Westminster seat?

  264. Andy Ellis says:


    It’s an old debate. A few readers may appreciate it. Most think you’re a crushing bore, scroll past your cut and paste secondary research, and wish to goodness Stu would ban you so it didn’t take half as long to scroll through comments since your unwanted ego massaging seems to account for a decent % of BTL posting.

  265. Andy Ellis says:


    I give up. You’re the equivalent of Dougal in Father Ted and I can’t be arsed explaining the equivalent of “small….and far away”.

  266. John D says:

    Does anyone else have problems with this site only at times? For today’s post and also previous others at the most inopportune times my iPad has what I can only describe as a fit . Impossible to read or else .
    My conspiracy scan assumes something has resonated. Good job

  267. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    So you’ve consulted all the WOS readership on their opinion of me? Or are you simply a bit full of yourself? I know which I’d put my money on. Anyway, as I said. It might be an idea if you supported your opinion with some credible evidence. Otherwise, you’re simply expecting the readers to believe you, just because of who you are. Which none of us can vouch for. Mkay!

  268. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    Here you go, fill your boots. Full text.

    An International Journal of Critical and Democratic Theory, Volume 26, Issue 1, March 2019, Pages 18-30

    Why is there truth? Foucault in the age of post?truth politics

    The political shocks of 2016, most notably the victory of the Leave camp in the Brexit referendum and the election of Donald Trump as US president, led to widespread discussion about the decline of truth in the political culture of Western liberal democracies (d’Ancona, 2017; Kakutani, 2018). The rise of authoritarian populist movements and figures, the decline of trust in mainstream media and expert knowledge, and the growth of alternative media have led to the emergence of what has been termed a post?truth regime (Harsin, 2015; Tallis, 2016).

    The post-truth political culture is usually characterized by a relativist standpoint that devalues the truth claims of the political establishment and mainstream media, approaching all truths as mere opinions or expressions of ulterior private interests. This devaluation of truth is held to undermine the democratic public sphere, paving the way for the rise of charlatanry, obscurantism, and extremism.

    While the descent of this disposition is traced from a variety of events, from the innovations in information technology to the crisis of the neoliberal hegemony, one of the more controversial claims links the emergence of post-truth politics to poststructuralist French philosophy of the 1960s-1970s and Michel Foucault, in particular.

    Foucault’s thought is held to be directly or indirectly responsible for the onset of the post-truth disposition, because of his anti-foundationalist approach that undermines both the truth claims of modern science and the legitimacy of liberal?democratic regimes (Andersen, 2017; Williams, 2017).

    These accusations invoke the familiar themes of the science wars of the 1980s and early 1990s (Fraser, 1995; Walzer, 1986; Wolin, 1994), in which poststructuralism and postmodernism were routinely accused of undermining the very foundations of Western politics and culture, particularly the authority of truth and the scientific method. While the tone of this polemic was alleviated considerably in the subsequent reception of Foucault’s work, Foucault’s approach to truth remains the object of critical comment also by fellow continental philosophers.

    In his Logics of Worlds</i< (2009a) Alain Badiou anticipated today's diagnoses of the post-truth era by describing contemporary Western societies as governed by the ideology of democratic materialism, for which there are only “bodies and languages” with their particular desires and opinions (Badiou, 2009a, pp. 1–9).

    Since his 1988 magnum opus Being and Event Badiou has been singular among contemporary philosophers in his endeavor to rehabilitate the notion of truth against both sophistry and anti-philosophy, which approach truth as non-existent and ineffable, respectively (Badiou, 2008, pp. 6–11, 18–20, 2011, pp. 138–139). In this endeavor Badiou has been particularly critical of Foucault’s approach, presenting it as the philosophy most adequate to the nihilistic age of democratic materialism: a “linguistic anthropology” that addresses the ways in which bodies and languages are regulated in different historical periods (Badiou, 2009a, pp. 35, 527). For Badiou, Foucault’s history of the regimes of truth could only describe the regimes themselves while bracketing off the question of their truth.

    The question of truth has been central to the entirety of Foucault’s philosophical oeuvre and his approach to truth underwent a series of transformations and displacements from the earliest work on madness through the archaeological research on the human sciences and the genealogy of the regimes of power-knowledge up to his late investigations of the techniques of the self in antiquity.

    It would therefore be too simplistic to isolate anything like a distinct Foucauldian approach to truth. Nonetheless, Foucault’s account of the discourses of truth in the 1980-1981 lecture course Subjectivity and Truth (2017) offers a particularly fruitful site for revisiting Foucault’s approach to truth, especially insofar as it finds no clear correlate in his books or other publications. Moreover, this account both revisits some of the methodological themes of Foucault’s earlier works, particularly The Archaeology of Knowledge (1989), and modifies the more familiar approach to power/knowledge that Foucault began to distance himself from in the lectures of the previous year (Foucault, 2010, pp. 11–12, 328–329).

  269. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @John D 6:11pm

    Mine has had a couple of episodes. It would flash black/white windows and then freeze. I’ve had to reboot it to get the internet working again.

  270. Me Bungo Pony says:

    @Andy Ellis

    It’s like debating with a Flat Earther; no matter how much I tell you the Earth is round, you’ll refuse to accept it while offering nothing credible in the way of evidence for your own views. C’est last vie.

  271. CmonIndy says:

    I remember those days when you could rely on Rev Stu to rail against the Unionists. That’s what my donations were for anyway. At least I’ll save some money to help out our local campaigning.

  272. Marco McGinty says:

    “He’s also editor of party newspaper The Scots Independent and was Head Of Policy And Strategy for welfare-to-work firm Ingeus, who have been closely involved with the UK government’s controversial and cruel Work Programme.”

    Enough said! I live on the north coast of Ayrshire, and when unemployed a few years ago, I had the misfortune of being sent to Ingeus for their “expertise” in helping me “find work”.

    Demands were made that I apply for part-time work in Motherwell (10 hours a week over 5 five days!), and when I refused to comply, they reported me back to the jobcentre for “refusing to work”.

    An utter disgrace of an organisation, who clearly only employed people that couldn’t think for themselves, and were easily led into believing the Tory mantra that the unemployed are workshy and lazy.

  273. Karmanaut says:

    Disgusting. And it’s noticable that I haven’t seen any mention of this in the unionist press. Normally they’d be all over even one tweet.

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