The false starters
Although this site is blacklisted by the press regulator IPSO and therefore unable to file complaints about inaccurate and misleading newspaper articles, our alert readers sometimes pick up the baton from Wings articles and do the job themselves.
We reported one such example a week ago.
But the reader who took up that complaint has furnished us with a bit of interesting background to the story, and also news of a rather more alarming outcome.
Because the Mail’s eventual concession and correction that the front-page lead about potholes was nonsense wasn’t forced on it by the regulator, but by the Mail simply deciding to admit it had been wrong.
IPSO had, in fact, bizarrely rejected the matter out of hand.
Our source had had to file an appeal against that decision, whereupon five weeks later the regulator grudgingly accepted the appeal and reopened the case, at which point the Mail – magnanimously, in the circumstances – admitted their error without IPSO making any adjudication.
But it didn’t go so well for our source in another complaint a little while later.
In May we reported a ridiculous article in the Scottish Sunday Express claiming that a “HUGE loophole” enabled people to circumvent minimum pricing for alcohol.
We found that the prices quoted in the story were fantasies, only available to £80-a-year Amazon Prime subscribers – something which wasn’t mentioned at any point in the piece – and that even then you’d have to drink three times the recommended maximum for an adult to save any money, and that even then you’d only save pennies.
But once again, IPSO weren’t impressed.
And their reasoning was startling.
IPSO claimed that, in an article solely about the price people were being charged for something, how much they had to actually pay was an irrelevance. The cost of Prime membership was totally discounted, because some people might have it already and therefore it was effectively free. (Even though, remember, the Express had made no mention of needing Prime at all.)
And the logic of that, if you apply it to anything else, is remarkable. We’re planning a piece tomorrow, for example, in which we’ll be boasting that we can definitely beat Usain Bolt in a 100-metre foot race (neglecting to include the words “so long as you let us start 15 seconds before him”).
We’ll be headlining our shock revelations that it’s possible for even small children to scale Mount Everest in less than five minutes (information not supplied: so long as they’re delivered by helicopter to a camp 20 feet below the summit first).
And we’ll be drawing in vast numbers of readers with a huge banner front-page splash promising to explain “HOW EVERYONE CAN GET A BRAND-NEW LAMBORGHINI CENTENARIO FOR JUST £5”.
It’s just that we probably won’t have room to include the line “assuming that they’ve each already got a spare $1,899,995 in their pockets“.
And we’re sure IPSO won’t mind, because this time our diligent reader’s appeal failed, and that was the end of the matter.
That, readers, is what the staff of the Herald would have you believe is “one of the most heavily regulated” medias in the world.
We wonder what you can get away with in the less regulated ones.
Ah good old IPSO.
Apologies if I am 100% wrong here (more than likely 😉 ) but is not this IPSO thingy not just a wee gathering of unionist newspaper editors who get together and protect the “innocent.” i.e. their own papers against outrageous claims by the nasty readers who make “unjust” assertions about lies being printed? 😀
Another incisive piece, thanks. Nothing surprises me now.
Why are you blacklisted? Is there no body you can appeal to who handles complaints about IPSO. If there isn’t one there should be.
Ah, self regulation!, is that not what “fluffy” does, as well?,
It does not work for him, and as sure as hell, the newspaper industry is taking the pizza out of the reading public.
We watch and wonder at how obnoxious the UK Establishment has become.
Illegally
Powerful
Stooge
Organisation
Yes Mr. Leask – I can see how tough the regulations are now. It must be a terrible burden only being able to lie, mislead and spin stories 99percent of the time. As for the 1percent the punishing requirement to print a correction on a postage stamp area buried deep within an edition several weeks later must be crushing.
The “Scottish” media is the fake news that we should all be concerned over. The “trusted professionals” are simply tools of the owner/state. The propaganda far out balances journalism.
Aren’t they just policing themselves? Didn’t the Tories drop Leveson’s recommendations in favour of the Press offering to oversee theselves?
Or am I ust making that up in this Wild West WoS environment?
Alison rowat frien of leask is always on the bbc. She believes there be no independence referendum until after the next Scottish Parliamentary election (assuming we have a Parliament) Trying to dictate an action by just spouting rubbish.
Is she got anything to do with Pickle jar production?
Self regulation rarely works and in the case of the press it has never worked. The only thing curtailing the UK press is declining readership and advertisement money. The way to better curtail their lies and distortions is to not buy their papers. In this Liverpool were spot on.
Ipso facto they are all Unionist flag bearers, the results are not surprising.
The clue’s in the name. IPSO. The Latin word that can be translated as for ourselves or by ourselves.
And THAT, in a nutshell, is why the UK press and their toothless watchdog aren’t trusted.
The fact IPSO can blacklist a site that primarily exists to highlight errors, lies and blatant propaganda in the press tells us all we need to know about IPSO. What on earth would the papers say if the Scottish Government blacklisted the press from asking FoIs?
This is why the press needs and independent watchdog that can hold newspapers to account for inaccuracy and distortion.
Leask and his britnat ilk hate losing their monopoly on news reporting. Sites like WOS, scotgoespop, WGD etc are hated by britnats because they fight lies with facts.
Britnat newspapers continue to lose readers in Scotland because of their anti-Scottish bias.
We must help to further decrease britnat media influence.
Boycott all britnat media; don’t pay the bbc tax.
It is as if everything is being re-evaluated – words don’t mean what we think they mean anymore. We just keep being told we are wrong. The amount of spin is truly bewildering in its attempt to disorientate and obfuscate.
O/T as a native Glaswegian the GSofA fire is a truly terrible thing but I cannot help feeling it is a metaphor for the time we live in. A beautiful facade of times gone past which had become not fit for purpose no matter how much money and professed love it received. It also became a victim of its success with the brand becoming more important than its purpose as a centre for artistic excellence. Unfortunately, it provides another chance for all those BT folk to come out with their crocodile tears to show how much they love us.
CRM was an innovator, maybe use some of his vision and plans to start again?
Legacy media is losing its market share everywhere. However it is dying more quickly in Scotland than in the rest of the UK, and dying more quickly in the UK against comparable European countries. Folks are voting with their money and no longer buying the rags.
We have to ask, though … if ‘news’ papers were being regulated properly, forced to avoid fake news, and appropriately punished when they transgressed – would their demise be so rapid? If they were still trusted by more people, then it seems reasonable to assume they would be selling more copies.
Which is where IPSO comes in. Their total failure to do their job seems likely to be having a negative impact on the industry they should be regulating properly.
And …. why is WoS actually blacklisted?
In Scotland water is cheaper and even free to consumers and what’s more it’s better than Englands water so the good folk of England could avail themselves of Scotlands free stuff and come over the border and take tanker loads of it back to England
Is that not a loophole for English folk who pay for water
Whay isn’t that front page news to help the thirsty English
come on up and get a free drink people
Thanks to IPSO regulation our media is free to print and publish anything other than the news.
Ipsos,yougov,cbi,electoral commision etc etc.all these agencies have only one agenda, and thats to falsify and cheat to preserve their union.None of them are neutral.
The only piece of news I perceive from this article is the Media claiming to have a code of conduct. I find this fascinating… did the Editors of Scottish publications not know this, they can however be excused as neither did I.
I only read your blog
, bellacaledinia and the National.
Gave up on all the others because they are fiction of the worst type.
Beano and Dandy have more facts than these rags.
IPSO must be an acronym for I Publish Slanted Obloquy?
Selfie regulations?,
Never worked, especially when it comes to the printed press.
Would that I was able to “edit ” my last posting,
Ment to read = “Self” , rather than selfie, (this so called autocorrect!!).
Leask is right there is no hiding place for chancers. They don’t need to hide they are right there in front of us every day. On every bloody tv channel and in all the papers the bloody chancers are there.
Journalists = chancers = propaganda writers/broadcasters.
On your bike to London the lot of you. Torrance may welcome you but don’t come back.
The press are here mainly to promote the British Nationalist regimes propaganda the press may print what they want just like the TV and radio, all with the blessing/ direction of the Regime.
Dr Jim
Water in Scotland is presently free dont think for a second the Regime doesn’t have plans in that area.
The Express’ Ben Borland ?
Apologies. Fecking black sheep of the family.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The false starters Although this site is blacklisted by the press regulator IPSO and therefore unable to […]
Until the press is forced to print corrections on the same page as the original offending article IPSO is as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Sinky says:
16 June, 2018 at 2:56 pm
Until the press is forced to print corrections on the same page as the original offending article IPSO is as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Sorry Sinky I have to disagree with you here.
A chocolate teapot will ALWAYS be more useful than IPSO! 😀
If you think this is bad, try pursuing a complaint about your Bank through the Financial Ombudsman Service.
Regulators in the UK are a joke. Just a big placebo to test your resolve and stamina to fight for justice that you’re not going to get.
If you have a legitimate grievance, don’t waste your time with an Ombudsman / Regulator, take them to Court, and collect £200 if you pass GO. I’m not saying you’ll get justice from the Courts either, but let’s just say the odds you might are marginally better.
Ombudsmen and Regulators don’t want you actually knowing the law. It means they cannot palm your complaint off with terribly polite sophistry and waffle. If you don’t believe me, casually mention to your Ombudsman that you’re thinking about going to seek legal advice and watch them drop your complaint like a hot potato. They’re not there to look after your complaint, it’s the lousy bank/utility/service provider who the Regulator is looking after.
My advice, just for laughs would be to get legal advice, but don’t tell the Ombudsman you’re doing so. That’ll be an eye opener.
My advice for actual justice and a resolution of your grievance, either go to Court and sue, or forget about it, write it off and put it all down to experience. The justice process is so flawed, treacherous and two faced that the process alone is honestly bad your health.
And this is UK regulation now, before Brexit inspired de-regulation even begins…
Reminds me of ‘freeview’…which requires a tv licence
Apart from getting the National electronically every day I gave up on newspapers at least 15 years ago. I do however read English editions of foreign papers for news about us.
We will never have strict press regulation for the simple reason that our UK government enjoys and benefits from their malicious behaviour.
The BBC license system will be protected regardless of the logic in a World of TV supported by advertising and pay to view. The state propaganda agent and it’s government selected placements on the trust will be protected.
As often stated Scotland pays to have propaganda beamed into their home.
Sorry for O/T here but had to leave this here. 🙂
link to twitter.com
What right thinking person would wish to be associated with the majority scum commenting in the Hootsman on the fire at the Rennie MacIntosh School of Art.
I must admit, IPSO got one thing right when they informed me that “Westminster” and “England” were virtually synonymous.
In the UK, virtually all media is part of State Propaganda.
The UK Government seeks to decide both what the population will think but also the things they they will think about.
The British State does not want the electorate to think for themselves.
What many people think nowadays are ideas they got from the telly, like the idea that they couldn’t live without TV which the majority of people believe completely.
Think I’ll just leave this here, another O/T I know but some may find it “interesting.” 😉
link to plus.google.com
How does old saying go ipso nonfacto
Apparently what I posted earlier was only part of an article that was on the YES East Kilbride Facebook page.
Here is the full article for anyone interested
link to facebook.com
IPSO =sigh= David Cameron’s last legacy of craven forelock-tugging to the right-wing media mob, in flagrant disregard of any notion of media accuracy.
Just another reason to get our own proper country, one with its own proper regulator.
Stu asks:
“We wonder what you can get away with in the less regulated [industries].
You mean like the Big Four audit companies for example ?
It’s even possible for David Mundell to stand up for Scotland if, …erm apologies, I think I’ve taken it too far now.
The media industry control the regulation. They are supposed to be regulating themselves. A total joke. Was Dacre not chairman of the so called ‘regulation’ Committee? Basically the crooked liars do what they like supported by the Westminster crooks. In their pocket. Phoned by the Westinster Press Office every day. Telling them what to report. Corruption and collusion. Westminster unionists did not even implement Leveson recommendation.
Or hold the addition follow up Leveson 2 investigation. Thrown in the long grass recently. Using the libel Laws to get away with murder. Press regulation is a joke. Hacking accounts, bribing oublic officials. Controlled by non Dom tax evaders who should not even be allowed to control anything. No fit persons. Breaking company Law. Not fit for purpose. The Westminster crooks and criminal Press they get away with murder. An industry in decline. No wonder.
Some of them eventually get their comeuppence but not before the damage is done. Press regulation is a farce. Total lies.
Thank goodness for the internet.
I’m still amazed you can be blacklisted by an organisation which is supposed to hear complaints about the press but I suppose it just sums up how corrupt and self-serving it is.
Maybe you should get your own (gold?) badge of honour made up: “I’ve been banned by IPSO”.
Meanwhile, in other news, just saw the itsy, bitsy, teeny weeniest Orange walk ever in Glasgow today: must have held me up for at least 25 seconds.
A magnificent sight imo.
Mundell was on Sky to express outrage on Chope ‘up skirting’ fiasco. It’s banned in Scotland. Mundell insults people in Scotland everyday. Pity he was not held to account by the media. Disgusting, Another own goal. More disreporting. Clowns.
Orange Marches should be blacklisted. ‘Black balled’. Misogynist, racist, bigoted, unequal, unfair sectarian organisation should not be allowed in public places or highways. The should be banned. No members be accepted as candidates for political office. They are not of good character for public office. Breaking the Law at every turn. Getting away with it. If they want to March anywhere do it on private land and pay for it. Taxpayers should not be subsidising unequal bigoted organisation who break the equality Laws. Damaging the economy,
O/T…
From Twitter (Paula Rose)…
“Graeme Turner
@gturner1969
16 minutes ago
#GlasgowArtSchool Q. Does this photograph from last night suggest O2 was in fire before the Art School. The Academy roof is fully ablaze whilst the west and east ends of the Art School don’t look as if they are in fire! O2 Was apparently up for sale!”
Sure Scotland can implement Leveson recommendation? Might not be worth it. They can beam in their nonsense in any case. Might not be affective.
@ScottishPsyche
Truly the burning of the Mackintosh school is emblematic. I come from a culture where such signs have meaning. It is in its way a very bad sign, particularly following the elation of the previous days.
We are our culture. We treat our culture with great respect. This case is troublesome. The administrators of this project appear to have been slap dash. Security would appear to have been poor. Saving money? Very likely. Will they be held responsible? They got away with it last time. Given the self-serving, cliquish, secretive, quasi-masonic culture that obtains in parts of Scotland they may well do so again.
I sometimes despair that Scotland will ever be anything but a third rate, provincial backwater, even when independent. Unionism did profound damage. That damage will require a new mentality to repair. So far I see little sign of it. The dread British disease is not so easily eradicated.
Expect another extensive ‘cover up’.
No one’s died. They will no doubt patch it together. Not seeing the joins. Keep a prospective. The people from Scotland have travelled the world, overcome many hardship and difficulties. Just another one. World class.
The secret Masons burnt it doon.
Ordinary people, not really connected or active in politics know that the uk media is corrupt, biased and misleading.
The only time I listen to radio Scotland is Saturday, with off the ball, where we have two banter geniuses in the form of Stuart Cosgrove and Tam Cowan. I was talking to a pal today who said radio Scotland is pure shite, except for Saturday 🙂
A wee sortie into my local High Street today, Poppy Scotland (complete with piper etc} had a stall, anyone else have this in their local area?
I thought this was a November thingy!!!
Sad that the GSA looks like its gutted, maybe its time for a totally new construction, designed by a new modern Scottish designer for the next chapter in the history of our great country.
I am lost for words as to why it could go up in flames AGAIN in such a short space of time. I would have thought FIRE PREVENTION would have been the first item on the agenda from the last fire.
@ ottomanboi: 6.09
Sad loss though it is and we still don’t know the original cause or indeed place of the fire wearer a forward looking Nation.
Surely we have the talent to build a new, modern GSA suited to a confident, emergent Scotland?
And I don’t mean an illegitimate squalid lovechild of 60s Brutalisim and a B&Q greenhouse like the BBC monstrosity on Pathetic Quey!
“I sometimes despair that Scotland will ever be anything but a third rate, provincial backwater, even when independent.”
Even with its present constitutional status, my country, Scotland is far, far, far from being a “third rate, provincial backwater”! What the hell leads one to that conclusion about Scotland today, far less what Scotland can and will become upon independence?
I have no wish to promote a Scottish ‘exceptionalism’ – I’ll leave that to some in other places – but I will have no truck with talking our imperfect country down.
It is as if Gordon Brown decided to bring his cringe to the btl contributions here today under a pseudonym?
Ah, I get it.
IPSO non facto amat.
@ BDtT – the photo looks like the O2 roof is ablaze while the building behind it is not. Should probably be sent to the investigators who will have the means of finding out the facts.
Very sad event in any case. We all want to know how this happened and what is to be done about it.
Does IPSO stand for I Piss Scotland On.. a kind of yoon Yoda saying.. 🙂
No one died. They can recover it. Not show the joins. Insurance liability?
People from Scotland have travelled the world. Overcoming hardship and despair. World class, The blackballers have to keep it secret but parade in fancy dress. Inconsistently. Out of sync wth real life. In a vacant vacumn. Nothing better to do?
@stewartb
One of the more insidious false flags.
Croompenstein says:
16 June, 2018 at 7:49 pm
Does IPSO stand for I Piss Scotland On.. a kind of yoon Yoda saying.. ?
_______
You missed a trick, Croompenstein.
IPSO = I Piss Scotland Off
Welsh Sion , perfect!
“I sometimes despair that Scotland will ever be anything but a third rate, provincial backwater, even when independent. Unionism did profound damage. That damage will require a new mentality to repair. So far I see little sign of it.”
Translation: “Oh – it’s just all sooooo difficult.”
Get a grip of yourself, FFS. Or are you deliberately playing the fucking doom-merchant here? Every other country in the world can be a successful independent country EXCEPT Scotland? That’s what you really want to say, isn’t it?
Guess what – it’s no’ workin’. So chase yerself laddie and take yer doom-laden pish wi’ yae.
Regarding this “Up Skirting Bill” that is going through the English Parliament, I wonder what they would find if somebody was brave enough to try and Up Skirt the Tank Commander?
I’m sure it would prove that she is the man in her relationship.
The hairs on her chest go all the way down to her Bawz.
They don’t call her “Butch Davidson” for nothing you know.
Ah, IPSO as a regulator is a regulator for the press, just like the SPSO is an ombudsman for public services in Scotland. A Crap waste of time and money.
The SPSO model was a failed model of ombudsman copied from England.
Just like GIRFEC is a failed model of child welfare protocols again copied from England.
So, when GIRFEC fails your children you take your complaints to the useless SPSO.
20 years of devolution and we’re still using Labour’s rotten copies of the failed England systems.
I could bet you: if press regulation were to be devolved, the model for the Scottish press regulator would be: IPSO.
An Angry Beelin’ Scot
Aye I can fuckin smell you frae here.. 😀
The trolling on WOS just gets more pathetic. You’ll have to up your game lads and lassies.
@Croompenstein
Possibly – Insignificant Plebs Sod Off
@Thepnr
I think they’re fornicating with each other and reproducing.
@Croomps, PC, Thepnr, yesindyref2:I’m beginning to think just one 77 Brigade operative is talking to himself using three personalities.
I supposed it’s what they’re reduced to in the Last Days of the Raj/Radge.
Thepnr @ 8:32 pm and indyref2
“The trolling on WOS just gets more pathetic. You’ll have to up your game lads and lassies.”
Correct! Even when we have exposed to ‘rock bottom’ before, the contributions never got quite so vile or been such obvious crap.
Indy2 at 8.19
I see you have virtually copied your objectionable post on GSA from the last subject. As I said then and repeat. This is low even by the appalling standards of most of the other trolls on here
@Welsh Sion
“IPSO = I Piss Scotland Off” Yes, very good 🙂
@Tinto Chiel
I sincerely hope they’re not the 77th, I’d expect more competence from an outfit suppsoed to protect us all from cyberthingies. More like the SiU, they’re mostly pretty stupid and incompetent.
watched a oo march in a held up taxi in stirling about half five today, about thirty bands, about thirty each, no followers, a simple display of disciplined hate.
I watched them in their rip off west point/1st world war/glorious empire costumes and felt a cold chill go through my heart.
this must stop.
Indy2 @ 20:19,
Posting the same ignorant ill-natured wildly off-topic bollocks on two different threads at two different times doesn’t make it any more true, or any more representative of anyone but the odd denizen of trolling fartdom, ie. you.
But look on the bright side, at least you’ve succeeded in proving to the whole wide world now that you’re a complete uncultured moron.
I knew Gordon Brown just had to say something regarding Independence following his appearance on the Marr show last week.
He just can’t help himself.
“Scotland would run up £100billion in debt in a decade if they
win independence, claims Gordon Brown
Former Prime Minister criticised SNP’s findings in Sustainable Growth Report
Gordon Brown added Labour could return to power championing ‘social justice’
He told a conference that debt under the SNP would rack up almost £100 billion
Gordon Brown has claimed an independent Scotland under the SNP would rack up almost £100 billion of debt in a decade.
The former prime minister criticised findings in the party’s Sustainable Growth Commission Report, which lays out economic prospects after breaking away from the UK.
Mr Brown also claimed on Saturday it showed Labour could return to power by championing what he calls a new ‘Scottish social justice option’.
link to dailymail.co.uk
This will be no doubt headline news from BBC Scotland in the morning.
Just trying to catch up after a busy day and the first comments I see are from indyref2 with a disgusting personal attack on Ruth Davidson and then saying the English are his number one enemy.
Can I suggest that Indyref2 (and a few others), read the Rev’s rules on etiquette and formatting particularly numbers 1&2.
Please have the decency to follow the rules of the person allowing you to use his blog for your comments.
If I hadn’t been a follower of WoS and know what it’s really like I would have not come back.
Indy2 @ 21:39
Speak for yourself about “hating England” and for wanting to see violence sully any match of the beautiful game, you miserable apology of a fake indy supporter.
Nup, not biting the anti anybody shite I’m afraid.
Don’t give scooby about footie anyway. So away n’ piss on yersel.
Meindevon @ 21:50,
Don’t confuse the miserable troll “indy2” with our much-appreciated “indyref2”, dear chap. No doubt the choice of moniker is intentionally intended to deceive, as is the rest of his foetid dung output.
Sorry that should have been ‘Indy2’ not ‘Indyref2’ at 9.50.
@ Meindevon says: “Just trying to catch up after a busy day and the first comments I see are from indyref2 with a disgusting personal attack on Ruth Davidson ”
Oi, read the fucking postings, that wasn’t me, it was Indy2.
I don’t follow football anymore. Probably not for more than a couple of decades and when I did follow the international scene (even further back) Scotland wasn’t my first choice (cough).
Can’t help it. Just loved watching Brazil back in the day (and by that I mean Pele was still a first team player). Today? Have to say Iceland catches the eye. Love their attitude and their heart.
Never had anything to do with who I liked or hated as a political entity, but who I admired for their skill, their attitude, their heart and their shear joy in playing.
When money took the beautiful game from us? It stopped being the beautiful game. (shrugs)
16 June, 2018 at 8:49 pm
“@Croomps, PC, Thepnr, yesindyref2: I’m beginning to think just one 77 Brigade operative is talking to himself using three personalities.”
You were correct, Tinto.
“Our main enjoyment is watching the hated England gettin humped.”
‘Our’?
‘We’ are amused!
🙂
Macart, left something on O/T for you: completely agree.
stewartb
I`m afraid I disagree with you, a lot of what ottomanboi says is so very true.
Indy2 @ 8.26
Could you please keep your distasteful’ locker-room’ comments to yourself. Every human deserves some dignity and you’re not doing yourself any favours.
Indy2 @8.26pm
What a childish thing to say, i suppose in your infantile mind it was hilarious to you….pathetic…grow up
‘Our main enjoyment’???
Doesn’t include me clearly. Don’t really follow the game anymore.
Ipso facto a waste of time.
Its not fake news if they say it isn’t.
Indy2@8.26
Don’t know how many Scotland games you’ve been to (any?). For most of us we’re just gutted Scotland aren’t there. And you want fans to get a kicking -if you’re serious, that’s sad, if you’re trying to be funny,you’re not.
Rock (11th December 2016 – “The ratio of truth”):
“Which is perfectly legal in a rotten to the core system where the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, and all “regulators” and “ombudsmen” are the lowest of the low.”
Yesindyref2. Please don’t swear at me. I spotted my mistake straight away and corrected it.
Anyway I didn’t even use your actual name so what are you getting your knickers in a twist about.
You know I was just beginning to enjoy these threads again. The last 4/5 articles have been so uplifting with the usual bletherers very quiet, but everyone seems to be getting tetchy again.
Rev: “Although this site is blacklisted by the press regulator IPSO…”
What? How does that work, and how did you find out?
On another thread there was a comment about what percentage of the total electorate we would need if no voters decided to boycott a referendum. I initially though >45% would be required but looking at the Brexit vote I’m wrong. Anything over 37.5% would seem to be acceptable, if 37.5% of total electorate is good enough for Brexit it’s good enough for indyref.
If the international community have accepted the 37.5% as the will of the UK how can they possibly then not accept this same level from Scotland. So let them boycott any referendum, if they do our aiming point isn’t beyond us.
@Meindevon
Refresh rate communication delay. It happens and can be damn pain the bum.
It has been a good week though. Good posts and good comments to mull over.
Keep at it. 🙂
Meindevon @ 11:08 pm
“… but everyone seems to be getting tetchy again.”
To the extent this is true and having a negative effect on you and perhaps others, then certain prominent contributors with malign intent will congratulate themselves on a good night’s work!
Imposters’ Propaganda Seditious Oxymoron’s IPSO
Ipso Facto- A Friend proposed by an enemy to become your enemy!
IPSO’s very well paid jobs depend on them defending the indefensible on behalf of the offensive.
The name I believe is derived from a quasi anagram made from the words Piss & Off.
Sir Alan Moses heads up this cabal. Yet another old boy coming from the Eton Group and on to jolly old Oxford.
With the actions of IPSO I could have sworn its leader would have been a former civil rights campaigner who originated from a state school on a council estate? Aye Right!
In my eyes England is a foreign country. The same as France and Germany are foreign countries to me.
So why do we accept watching our National News bulletins tell us of what happened in England. It is as relevant as hearing about what happened in France today.
The people of Sweden wouldn’t accept getting German News bulletins beamed into their living rooms every day, so why should Scotland accept getting news of what happened in England beamed into their living rooms on a daily basis.?
So, as I said, England is a foreign country to me and my sworn enemy. I fuckin hate the English and their Establishment.
If you want to support England and all she stands for then start up an “I love England” forum.
And I can assure you, that is one website I would not visit.
Meindevon @ 23:08,
Actually, things have definitely been progressing of late, which is no doubt why (as always) a little rash of the usual nay-sayers makes an appearance to try to sow distractions and put a damper on everything.
Disengagement is the only weapon the BritNats have left, and even that is blunted by its own negativity and multiple self-contradictions.
The vast majority of recent contributions have been positive, so do keep on coming back and sharing your thoughts. After all, we’re heading for very interesting times…
Who’da thought the SNPs walkout could have sparked such huge ramifications in a week where they exposed the corrupt duplicity of the Tories to everybody in Scotland and made the entirety of Europes press spread it all over their media including pictures and translations and analysis as to what a bunch of Tories they are
So much pressure were the Tories under they decided to retreat to number 10 to come up with a strategy to combat all this SNP exposure of their dishonesty, so what did they decide? well they decided to come out of hiding with an announcement of 20 billion quid to the NHS which you would think oh? that’s a good one to pull of that’ll get the masses back on side, but wait, what did they do? well they called it the Brexit dividend and boom! they just made complete fools of themselves again because as we all know Brexit hasn’t happened yet so where is all this lovely moolah coming from?
It turns out Boom! the chancellor of the exchequer is going to tell us and well we all know what that means
In a carefull worded statement that’s about to fool nobody the chancellor is going to talk about a caring and preparing society under the new and improved pre Brexit Tories which will mean we all have to do our bit for the country and pay more tax on everything to pay for the Brexit dividend he’s just said he’s giving us, in other words, well no those words are fine
Here comes the biggest attempt at the stupidest method they’ve ever employed to pull the wool over the stupidest population on earth if they fall for this crap ever
So you would probably have to say the SNP by their actions have guided the Tory lunatics to the brink of ultimate lunacy and when they’re found out on this one, I would suggest it’s down they go and bye bye Treeza hello Nicola as she punches a bigger hole in this than I’ve just done
Laugh? I cannot wait
Sorry to repeat myself but Gordon Brown is a complete money grabbing idiot.
The man who sold UK Gold reserves just before its price doubled and then trebled.
The man who was supposed to be in charge of keeping the Banks in check and allowed for their casino banking that Crashed the economy.
The man who stole £10 Billion from personal pension pots.
The man agreed to stealing 6,000 Square miles of Scottish Maritime waters to gift Westminster.
The man who set up the crippling PFI debts. £50 Billion of unsafe schools and hospitals that will cost Tax Payers over £300 Billion with Interest.
Brown the liar who swore at the Referendum that an Independent Scotland could not have Old Age Pensions while knowing them to be guaranteed.
Could he name a European Oil Rich Country with no OAP benefits-No He F*** couldn’t.
How about the Whopper that there could be no Blood Transfusion Service, or Transplant list in an Independent Scotland?
These services are worldwide and have no part in politics.
He spends an average £10,000 per week on “Expenses” from a charity set up in his own name.
Charity does begin at Home doesn’t it cruncher!
I really love the fact that we are in a 10th year of austerity now and I’ve seen more than my share of Westminster recessions
and they have the nerve to say an Independent Scotland would have a period of recession?
Didn’t hear any denial that Brown knew the suspected paedo Thomas Hamilton the pervert blamed for the Dunblane massacre?
Why would Tony Blair commit the details of the massacre to a Top Secret Level and bury them for 100 years?
Would Blair help an old mate to keep their noses in the trough?
And we are supposed to give credit to this idiot’s ramblings?
I have one thing to thank the English for and that is for them voting to leave the EU.
By doing that, they kept alive our hopes of getting out of this Union.
Because Brexit WILL win us our Independence.
That is our passport to freedom.
Macart@9.57.
It was Gerd Muller for me.
Iceland or anyone but Engerland for this one.
The £20Billion from 2018 to 2023 NHS funding – £4Billion a year. It is just the funding that the the ConDems intended to cut from the NHS budget 2015 to 2020. £4Billion a year They had to put in a £2Billion to mitigate the damage being done by the cuts. A&E etc. Going back to square one. 3 years later. It is only going back to mitigate the intended cuts. Not new increased money. Overall it is less than would have been put into the NHS had the cuts not been implemented. A Con from the Cons.
It is questionable whether the Tory/unionists will last in power until 2023. Corbyn Labour/LibDem unionists would be another disaster in any power in Westminster.
Brown has a deficit of £120Billion a year. More most years. That was the borowing in 2009. With increased taxes UK raised £600Billion (present comparisons). 2009. Total £720Billion.
Scotland raised more in taxes (pro rata) and had less of a deficit (pro rata)l 2009 and before. Even more would gave benefit Scotland without Brown /Westminster disasterous policies . Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Causing the worse migration crisis in Europe since the 11WW. Costing £Billions. Trident etc. Costing £Billions. Trillions of debt. Under Brown the debt increase. False accounting practices and fake books. Any accountant would have been put in jail for false accounting. Lies and deceit. Over Ten years of Brown increased up to £Trns in debt.
So, as a nice sideshow, tomorrow’s papers are full of the Brexit dividend, going to the NHS.
How the holy f**k can this be happening before our eyes, the monumental LIES to feed to the Brexiteers. We all know there is no dividend, but hidden in the small print is raising taxes.
For the Brexit nerds, this is a brilliant piece, by a great journalist, Tony Connolly at RTE, who has great sources on the Dublin side.
Apparently, British officials have been trying to brief against Dublin to other EU heads. At one meeting, a UK proposal was met with “thinly disguised disgust”.
I can’t see anything other than No Deal from everything I read. The prevarication seems to be about the threat of not paying the £39 billion, if the EU wont agree to splitting the 4 freedoms.
Do read for a very good flavour of where things are.
link to rte.ie
Tinto Chiel @ 5.52
That must have been a Satsuma Walk!
indy2
You are confusing and conflating at the same time. What you see at a football match is just that. 22 guys on a field kicking a ball about with team and fan rivalry.
Don’t assume that is what we believe is independence. I don’t hate anyone – not how I was brought up. I don’t hate the French, German, Norwegian, Dutch, Welsh , English, Irish etcetera
So stop your hate fest crap. Of course as some has said you are likely to be an agent provocateur.
Basic issue The best people to govern us is us.
Valerie,
Pretty good piece that.
Tinto Chiel @ 5.52 + The Dog Philosopher – more like a kumquat walk. 🙂
Thanks Robert J
To be honest I couldn’t leave even if I wanted to. That blooming Rev has me so addicted to this site and his twitter that I’m on it morning noon and, well now! It’s where I get all my info and news. Thanks to Nana too.
I am up here at the moment as a close relative with learning disabilities had to have an op. I just have to say how excellent his treatment was. They arranged everything around suitable times for me and him. The appointments were on time and the staff were all wonderful. Thankfully everything seems to be successful so far and I will reluctantly return back to Deepest Darkest next week. I will be singing the praises of NHS Scotland to the rafters when I get back.
Retirement is looming and kids have gone so one day I might be able to persuade my Devonian spouse to migrate north to a normal self governing Scotland. Otherwise we’ll be stuck in the mire of Brexit and misery. And no Wings.
@ TJenny
Sounds painful.
@ahundredthidiot says: 16 June, 2018 at 3:28 pm:
“Reminds me of ‘freeview’…which requires a tv licence.
Sigh! And so does every other TV station, live broadcasts on mobile Phones and on computers. You are not paying the live broadcasters including the BBC you are paying Westminster for their permission to receive live broadcasts.
It simply is not true that the BBC gets the licence money. They get an annual grant from the Government out of general taxation.
So you pay for the propaganda whether you buy a license or not.
The Dog Philosopher – depends where they get lodged. 🙂
Keep yer feet of ra seats Glasgow.
That’s what aye was asked just there… NEVER told.
Only ever asked, it’s a request like…
What day is tomorrow thank U please.
Stu knows…
That was important.
Croatia Wingers.
Don’t look back, just post it girl.
This World.
Of ours.
Keep twistin ma melon man…
Stuey knows.
Wings knows.
Scotland.
Main thread like.
I sometimes wonder…
I made a comment tonight, inspired by a comment I had seen on Twitter, on Paula Rose’s Twitfeed.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Out of 300k+ Wingers, only Capella saw the significance of the info I posted. Why, did a fire in an adjacent building, spread so quickly into the Mac building?
When I read WOS pages, I reload the tab(s) and continue to read the comments from the last time I dipped in. I don’t just look at the comments from the last few minutes.
That photo could enforce the impression rhat it was an insurance job”
Ask ye a questions…
Seek ye nae answers
Aye gottem harlem
HELP me William.
Aye am happy.
Ma WINGERS WON.
Blazin’ Shaddles.
Ur round.
West end.
Croatia.
Class.
Love x
Croatia 2 Stu, Nigeria not.
World Football should last longer like…
@Colin Alexander says: 16 June, 2018 at 8:27 pm:
“Ah, IPSO as a regulator is a regulator for the press, just like the SPSO is an ombudsman for public services in Scotland. A Crap waste of time and money.”
So it’s SNP BAAAD! again then, Colin? As Usual.
Headin’ back tae Maryhill…
Gimme some Scotland.
Love everything.
@Indy2 says: 16 June, 2018 at 8:26 pm:
“Regarding this “Up Skirting Bill” that is going through the English Parliament …
This comment says much more about your personal mentality than it say about the leader of the opposition at Holyrood.
A fine welcome to the 17th…
Bonnie
G
Today is the 17th of Scotland.
Almost FREE.
Aye have a Smallaxe request…
Tis all about the timing.
One is on the main thread.
Love love.
Dislike hate (holding the hate Hamish, U ken)
She always plays… Ms Amanda Brown.
Aye love U like XXX.
Bannockburn.
Love three times a day.
It’s an Aerosmith song.
Tis a good song to share…
My computer is goosed, lookin for a new one…
Recommendations please…
Is Windows 10 aweright or should aye defer.
Love XXX.
Breakfast, lunch n dinner.
Love.
You know…
Somebuddy help me.
Breeks knows, SO does Robert.
Howsabout you?
We are sovereign.
By this time next year…
Our Scotland will be normal again.
Barney knows.
Ludovico’s on the radio hammers.
Once you know, you know.
Tae learn.
340.
Plus 40 minutes hehe.
Love love.
Latin – English internet translation
ipsos mori they die
+
Welsh Sion says:
16 June, 2018 at 8:12 pm
IPSO = I Piss Scotland Off
ERGO I Piss Scotland Off and Die
As a newspaper or polling institute, lying is proving to be unsuccessfull as a policy, therefore leads to the death of a newspaper. No violence intended in my 5.54 am post. Apologies for possibly suggesting it.
Brian Doonthetoon says:
17 June, 2018 at 2:13 am
I sometimes wonder…
That photo could enforce the impression rhat it was an insurance job….
Looks like pretty compelling evidence that the fire didn’t start in the Art School. I hope the fire investigators have seen the picture too.
But deliberately set or pure bad luck, the loss of the Art School just horrible and tragic.
I hope they can save the stonework, and make it safe without demolition. It gives the building’s soul somewhere to reside until the rest can be repaired, and it must be repaired.
Whether it is London’s St Paul’s during the Blitz, or the Amber Room in St Petersburg, some buildings are simply more than buildings. Take the time to look online for photographs of the GSA interiors, because what you see is the very rarest of things, and that is original creativity of the very highest order.
But where there is despair there is hope. When we repair he GSA, it means there is a modern, minute understanding of original Mackintosh design, it’s detailing and vocabulary, and the practical tool skills required to make the features and components are being nourished. We can replace everything, and get back what he had. The only thing we cannot replace is Charles Rennie Mackintosh himself.
@ Tinto, heard that “Orange Walk” pass along the Gallowgate when I was in Bill’s Tool Store, then recognised that the tune was not the expected “Dolly’s Braes” etc’ but “Sean South” so unless there has been a mass jumping of dykes that Orange Walk the Hibs!
Links
link to newsnet.scot
link to rbs.postach.io
Vote for iscot mag
link to worldcup.pocketmags.com
link to thecommongreen.scot
Reporting Scotland uses discredited right-wing fundamentalist thinktank to try to undermine SNP
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
link to theorkneynews.scot
link to joansjigsaw.wordpress.com
link to blogs.gov.scot
SNP MP to launch bid in Parliament to give UK armed forces equivalent of a trade union
link to archive.is
link to tompride.wordpress.com
link to welfareweekly.com
Leave.?EU faces new questions over contacts with Russia
link to archive.is
There is no Brexit dividend to spend on the NHS
link to archive.is
EU Rejects Post-Brexit Defense Plan
link to archive.is
link to buzzfeed.com
link to thehill.com
If the fire started in a building other than the Art school , am I being naïve in thinking that well established public buildings would have alarms and sprinklers operating – thereby alerting fire brigades early? Can they be switched off easily if one was being less than honest?
Even so that was some conflagration and suggests that there was utter disregard for fire safety in the Art school.
Briandoonthetoon , I have a lovely photo of you , if I can make it to Stirling I will give you a copy – two knees and one hip are giving me cause to consider how far I can march – auld age is nae fun really!
Full Scottish programme starts at 12:00 midday on Sunday 17th June 2018
On this week’s Full Scottish from, Cameron Archibald is joined by guests Sandra White MSP and Journalist and writer, Susan Mansfield.
link to broadcastingscotland.scot
Thought this of interest:
link to theatlantic.com
Nana, in that news net article you link to their is a most timely quote from iceland regarding their negotiations with Denmark.
“..in discussions over their independence Icelanders too walked out of a meeting – one with the Danes. The Danes hadn’t come for discussion. They had decided beforehand what would happen. When the big guy, says Katrin, has decided for you what’s going to happen next, and you’re there just to decorate his decisions, why should you sit there and validate their decisions to ignore you, or not even let you talk? In that case they have gone too far. The Icelandic team stood up saying they all objected, then they walked out. Initially it caused problems, but in the end it created a lot of leverage. “You have to show people.””
Source : link to newsnet.scot
Glad to see that the SNP have now realised this. London/Westminster respect NOBODY. They do not hold ‘consensual talks’ with anybody – just look at how they are behaving with the EU. Outright arrogance and disrespect. It is an out of place patronising colonial ‘England knows best’ mindset, that should have been ditched when Victoria died.
That is what they are now doing with Scotland. SNP MP’s are right to make a fuss, they are right to demand certain things BEFORE ANY new talks. Disrupt, disrupt, disrupt. This is the only language Westminster grasps. They respect NOBODY.
Let us hope that now the new depute is in place, we start to see much, much more of a hard stance towards London. Their is a real risk that without taking a stand, Scotland will slowly lose ALL influence in anything. Make no mistake, Westminster has NO INTENTION of restoring the powers it is removing, the talk of seven years maximum, is class A bullish*t.
This is a fight for Scotland and not just our independence. It is that serious, and the clock is ticking louder and louder with each passing day. Strong action is required to put a stop to all of this. ‘Negotiations’ or ‘discussions’ are just a Westminster catch – all phrase for deception and distracting.
Enough of it. The reality is stark and it is staring Scotland in the face. Either we make a stand, or Westminster WILL shut down our Scots parliament.
Time is short. This is now urgent.
@Meindevon says:
16 June, 2018 at 9:50 pm
If I hadn’t been a follower of WoS and know what it’s really like I would have not come back.
That is perhaps the point.
Never interrupt when unionists politicians are making serious mistakes and taking devious actions. Or start pathetic squabbles playing to the Gallery. Just wait for the right opportunity. The SNP do not need lectures. They know exactly what they are doing to improve the Scottish economy, That is why people vote for them and they have such amazing major support. Keep tight, keep the heid and do not start unnecessary reflective battles. Do not be pushed into any rash action, Patience is a virtue. Channel anger into action, it is better for the heart, mind and healthier. The SNP have captured hearts and minds by proper conduct. Totally within the Law as per usual. When everyone all around are breaking the Law and losing it.
Just keep on voting SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence for a better future.. Have faith and patience. Keep the high moral ground and do not lose it. Patience is a virtual. They know exactly what they are doing to improve the economy and people’s lives. That is what they are doing because they care. In difficult and extenduous circumstances, They do not need lectures of conduct. They conduct themselves extremely well. Nicola and Co. Queen Bee. Totally within the Law. The end game is nigh. Highly probable.
It is highly unlikely the Westminster Tory will last till the end of the year. Never mind until 2023.
@The Dog Philosopher & T Jenny 😛 hee hee.
Fred: the chiels I saw were wearing orange sashes. Thankfully, I don’t know the tunes apart from the most obvious one.
I do have colour blindness (red/green deficient) and at one match played in the gloaming, Hamilton Accies sudenly turned into Celtic for a few seconds, but I don’t think that would explain yesterday.
“suddenly”.
Apologies.
Cameron,the Tories (ConDems liars) were warned exactly what would happened if they put a EU Ref on the agenda in a manifesto. Still misleading. Warned time and time again. Elected to protect NHS/Education, They lied and cut funding, The result is the chaos and intending catatrophe which could have been totally avoided with realistically consultation and cooperation. The lying LibDems facilitated the mess. Just as culpable,
O/T
Interesting article in The Telegraph – UK, that is England, reliance on imported energy from France has risen by 25% in the past year.
The French are of course charging the UK sweetly for it.
link to archive.is
Apologies if Nana has already given this link, not read all the posts yet.
If an administration cannot be trusted to keep important elements of the national patrimony secure from harm, how can it be trusted or be perceived as competent to govern a sovereign nation. So the anti-independence rhetoric will run.
For this major cultural crime heads must be seen to rest on the block. There must be no buddy buddy cover-up this time.
Mackintosh who struggled to find honour in the land of his birth, not even a street named in his memory, deserves his pound of flesh, served, as this is not the first offence, very rare.
Ken 500,
‘..The SNP do not need lectures. They know exactly what they are doing to improve the Scottish economy, That is why people vote for them and they have such amazing major support. Keep tight, keep the heid and do not start unnecessary reflective battles. Do not be pushed into any rash action, Patience is a virtue. Channel anger into action, it is better for the heart, mind and healthier. The SNP have captured hearts and minds by proper conduct..’
Absolutely Ken, we’re all entitled to feel proud of our political achievements, proud of our nation’s progress.
What have the Tories got?
To be proud of?
Anyone?
Put yourself inside the mind (yuck) of a Tory..what do they think they are conserving by lunging further to the right year by year.
(the answer – is the key to spreading our progressive awakening)
link to legislation.gov.uk
28 Acts of the Scottish Parliament.
(1)Subject to section 29, the Parliament may make laws, to be known as Acts of the Scottish Parliament.
(2)Proposed Acts of the Scottish Parliament shall be known as Bills; and a Bill shall become an Act of the Scottish Parliament when it has been passed by the Parliament and has received Royal Assent.
(3)A Bill receives Royal Assent at the beginning of the day on which Letters Patent under the Scottish Seal signed with Her Majesty’s own hand signifying Her Assent are recorded in the Register of the Great Seal.
(4)The date of Royal Assent shall be written on the Act of the Scottish Parliament by the Clerk, and shall form part of the Act.
(5)The validity of an Act of the Scottish Parliament is not affected by any invalidity in the proceedings of the Parliament leading to its enactment.
(6)Every Act of the Scottish Parliament shall be judicially noticed.
(7)This section does not affect the power of the Parliament of the United Kingdom to make laws for Scotland.
[F1(8)But it is recognised that the Parliament of the United Kingdom will not normally legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of the Scottish Parliament.]
Finally sussed what’s going on here.
The second from last phrase is interesting in that the Parliament Acts limit when the House of Commons can override the House of Lords. The idea that Westminster has unlimited power to legislate is a myth.
Arguably parties might stand on a manifesto to override devolution but not gaining a majority on that and especially not gaining a majority in Scotland would imply there’s no mandate to legislate on devolved issues.
It would, however, explain the seeming stupidity in going for a GE when she did.
The tacked on phrase at the end doesn’t actually got with the wording of the rest. It’s either a lack of care in imposing something or means something.
link to gov.uk
Has a link to a pdf, link to gov.uk
Unfortunately I can’t lift text but it starts with the phrase normally. But it then goes on to explain exactly what that means. And what it means is that up until the final stages of a Bill Westminster can proceed in the belief that Consent will be given.
In the context of that document it’s clear there’s a distinction between “making law” and “legislating” which is being blurred deliberately by Westminster.
Higher nuclear costs for energy in France are keeping higher prices in France for energy. These higher prices (pro rata) are then imported into the rest of the UK keeping prices in the rest of the UK higher. (Pro rata). Nuckearv higher energy costs (pro rata) means energy costs in the world higher. Instead of investing in cheaper, cleaner renewable energy. Globally which the world is now doing.
France invests in higher cost nuclear which it then exports some surplus. Keeping energy costs higher overall because it does not have such good geographical conditions for renewable wind, solar and tidal etc.less natural energy resources. By making the decision not to invest in cheaper overall cost in wind, solar and tidal. A bad retrospective decision. Nuclear is the highest cost of all and the most dangerous.
Westminster are making a grave mistake investing £Billions in nuclear energy. Building Hinkley Point which is costing wasted £Billions. When alternatives renewables. Solar, wind, wave, tidal are much cheaper produce more and are less dangerous. A totally bad decision with no market or business case. The Tory slush fund. They are milking the Chinese Gov and the nuclear energy projects for £Millions/Billions.
The UK taxpayers and consumers have to pick up the tab in higher energy prices. Imported in because of Westminster afminisration total extreme incompetence and sheer greed. Cameron and Carrington and Co troughing at the British-Chinese consortium as per usual. Taking taxpayers cash. Blatant criminality within the Tory and unionist Parties. Labour and LibDems facilitating this illegal behaviour without a murmur of complaint.
Coal is plentiful over Britain Coal/CCS are cheaper than imported nuclear fuel and energy. The Tories have banned coal production in the UK. Cut funding for CCS and solar. Banned onshore wind turbine in the rest of the UK. (Pickles). Wasted money on nuclear and have not invested in renewable but have invested in Fracking gas. Tax free in the rest of the UK. Taxed the Scottish Oil & Gas sector at 40% reducing and damaging production. Losing £Billions and having to import more Oil & Gas. Costing increased £Billions. Putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt.
A totally inadequate and destruction energy policy in the UK from Westminster, Incompetent, illogical, ignorant, unreliable and hazardous. It is much more expensive for taxpayers and consumers putting costs and prices up. The usual unionist and other Parties way. Totally incomprehensible and totally inadequate. Useless destructive Incompetence
I’m wondering if IPSO and its Code of Conduct prevents the UK from being ranked even lower than 40th (out of 180 countries) for press freedom?
“Although this site is blacklisted by the press regulator IPSO”
How can a Regulator put a citizen – or their website – on a blacklist?
This is absurd and totally makes more of a mockery (assuming that’s even possible) of this ridiculous institution. IPSO, for the PRESS not the people.
In the future, perhaps near..
..Corporate Tax/Government vanity will be based on perceived ethical/ecological footprint multiplied by profit, instead of purely profit divided by size of organisation/excuses.
I’m watching No Comment Live on Euronews..
At this stage of (ahem) civilisation, we should be bringing ‘model’ systems of economic development to Africa.
INSTEAD WE SELL THEM THE MACHINES OF WAR.
Then, our same, right-wing establishment and society complains (to it’s grassroots mix of millionaires and bigots) when the victims run away from death or misery.
Pathetic, sickening, in an educated world.
Robert Louis at 8.56
“Glad to see that the SNP have now realised this.”
The SNP always realised this. We had to wait for the rest of the population to wise up.
Water is not free in Scotland
Domestic use of water is paid for as part of your council tax
Have a look at your council tax bill there will be an entry showing how much you pay for water
It’s a standard amount so not dependent on how much water you use unlike in England where it is metered.
Water provided to Businesses in Scotland is privatised, to a degree.
Scottish water sell water to private companies in Scotland and these private water companies sell it on to businesses.
I agree with an earlier comment that Westminster would love to privatise Scottish water and have it metered, our bills would rocket.
Scottish independence will prevent this.
Are the Tories so out of touch that they thought many people would swallow the notion that there is a financial bonus to gained from Brexit?
NHS to get £600m a week from Brexit?
That is utterly impossible and a lie! It will be borrowed or come from taxation.
It’s reworking of the side of a bus bullshit, and it was discredited years ago.
Is there anyone alive who can remember the last time an SNP supporting commentator was on the sofa of any UK wide TV programme or paper review. The third force at Westminster regularly gets this when it’s the Lib Dens even if only a dozen seats
Meindevon 1.04am. Every time i come back down here and sing the praises of the snhs, all i get is ” we subsidise that. They dont/wont listen to the reasons why its crap. I gave up with them ages ago.
The UK is certainly throwing around a lot of money this week.
His interview starts off on message, talking about Britian and the UK as is the custom. But by the end he has forgotten the protocol and just talks about London.
I suppose with it being a “private” investment initiative from tax dodging multinational corporations, there will be no Barnett consequentials.
link to euronews.com
Theresa May promises to provide taxpayers money as well and to allow entrepreneurs to get visas to start up companies in “Britain”, as London is now called:
link to gov.uk
Listening to the usual English slant on the various Sunday politics shows and their “Two Party State” Labour/Tory options, it does make you wonder what part Scotland Wales and N Ireland play in this United Kingdom we are all meant to be part of.
The English love nothing more than talking about the English, the English and………the English. They will do this without an ounce of embarrassment in their bodies.
They just don’t give a fuck about Scotland.
Last weeks walkout by our MPs was met with cries of “They can walk out all they want, they have no powers in this place anyway”.
The quicker Scots realise the English are more concerned with the shit on their shoe than what happens in Scotland, then the quicker we can put an end to London Rule in Scotland.
Fuck England and all she stands for.
Mundell is bringing forward no new proposals on Withdrawal Bill tomorrow. He says better to influence Westminster through debate than stunts. In HOC Tories did not accept one devolution amendment from any party during all the stage readings of the Bill.
BLACKLISTING.
I found this 2 minute FILM snippet on YouTube from a couple of months ago:
Hardeep Singh Kohli describes being placed on the BBC’s blacklist of independence-supporting commentators at a meeting of Yes East Kilbride, 18 April 2018.
Just 2 minutes of your time.
link to tinyurl.com
I see Gordon “Pish” Brown has been trotted out again. Desperation time indeed. Pages of guff in the Sunday Mail. Here’s the puzzle. Why is Gordo not a knight? Alistair Darling got one and even Jimmy Saville. Gordon and his pal Anthony Charles Lynton Blair seem singularly left out. Is the stuff I have heard rumoured true?
What have they got on the pair of them?
Do they jump to it when its Scottish Independence on the agenda or attacking in the Middle East?
So David Mundell has openly admitted on the Politics show, that nothing new will be offered up by the British government on the Power Grab, come Monday’s set aside debate.
Unbelievable but true, we really need to exit the union.
Hot on the heels of the Broontervention we have the Sillarstooshie, one bitter irrelevant old man hot on the heels of another.
Jim, haud yer wheesht. Surely you can see you are getting it wrong when the Tank Commander is praising you on Twitter?
Alex Salmond (SNP) RT programme is broadcast to a potiential audience of billions of viewers worldwide. Enterprising.
The reason Westminster unionist want to shut down RT and other news outlets is because they do not want people to know the truth. They do not want freedom of the Press. Worldwide. They want a biased illegal control of a false narrative. The Westminster unionists and other parties want their criminality kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. No alternative views. Shut down democracy.
Without a free and balance Press there is no democracy, Thank goodness for the internet.
Jim Sillars, he is no Tory but he does seem to be the Tory go to for quotes. His admiration of May is now to be added to his CV.
The only next step for him is to join SiU, it seems logical. Maybe I just see a bitter old man that never achieved the heights that he believed he should have. In my opinion his natural home was always Labour, the SNP move looked just like a bit of personal opportunism at the time.
I’m actually struggling to think of anything positive he brought to the goal of independence.
Alex Salmond’s RT programme is broadcast to a potiential audience/viewship of billions of people worldwide. Enterprising.
Mundell is an inadequate disrespectful incompetent liar. Promoted beyond his capabilities
Previously we have been treated to ‘The Union Dividend’ which was good for a laugh when the BT mob were asked to give details thereof.
We are now being treated to ‘The Brexit Dividend’ which must qualify for Lie of the Century.
Since Stuntgate our beloved not so little Tank Commander has as per her usual practice vanished apart from her obligatory FMQs appearance where she spouted her usual pish.
Will she ever be subjected to a proper interview?
@Orri
Devolution was always a con, it was to give the impression of ceding power whilst always retaining it. They were quit happy for the three Nations to tinker on the edges but when anything they decide has any potential effect on England then it has to be stopped. What is good for England must always outweigh what is good for any of the other nations.
Now we second class Scots MP’s that are restricted in Westminster at the whim of the speaker (whose impartiality was fully exposed as non-existent this week), and MP’s from England that can now over-rule the democratically elected Scottish Government.
RE.. The Glasgow school of Art
I get the Heritage and History bit…and yes I think that’s very important.
But
It seems to me that Charles Rennie Macintosh actually designed a fire trap?
It was rebuilt to the original design after the first time,and now a fire has raged through it in a very short space of time again.
Yet there is talk of replacing – exactly – what has twice proven to not to perform well in a fire.
That doesn’t say to me that it’s a well designed building.
So to rebuild it in the same way,seems daft.
We have been very lucky that there has been no loss of life,but that is indeed luck and no judgement.
Also
If it was for example Stirling Castle, of course it should be looked after a cherrished, but should it be destroyed like this then,it wouldn’t matter how it was rebuilt.
The Castle would be gone and we would be left with only a replica.
If it was Holyrood… our actual parliament,would we no be sayin,the building is not very well designed and something else should be built?
Because ultimately the Castle,the Parliament and the Mac are just buildings,and not one of them is worth a life.
Surely a safe design trumps a historic one and why repeat the mistakes of an old design when modern designers can do better?
@gus1940
Just waiting for them to start with the ‘Westminster dividend’, after all the other two you mentioned are laughable what difference would another nonsense one make. If anyone is gullible to believe the former two they will believe this also.
From Kevin McKenna.
link to theguardian.com
RT MSM giving a more credible unbiased view of Scotland. Potiential viewers/audience worldwide of billions. 40million Scottish diaspora. Thank goodness for the internet.
GSA students can help design a new building. Including incorporating aspect of Macintosh , if desired. The reputation of GSA is because of the talent and abilities of the students and staff in many fields worldwide. Not because of a building. Historical or otherwise. Hill House, Tearooms etc are still preserved with aspect design details.
People are dying or struggling on the streets. Including ex students.
Jim Sillars is a bitter man, holds grudges. quite illogical. One step forward two steps back.
Don’t watch BBC Scotland politics anymore but it looks like from the the comments that they are now fully going with the UK Gov line that the SNP walkout was a staged stunt. Truly a despicable corporation.
Jim Sillars cuts off his nose to spite his face. Quite illogical. Bitter and twisted grudges. In some people’s opinion.
@ Welsh Sion – good article from Kevin McKenna. Thx.
Archived version:
link to archive.li
gus1940 says:
Yes, they have the same value – a negative one!
Both are millstones round necks, drains on wealth which could be better spent.
And yet, low life con artists are trying to pass them off as desirables!
Robert Peffers said:
17 June, 2018 at 2:45 am
“So it’s SNP BAAAD! again then, Colin? As Usual.”
I never mentioned the SNP; you did.
My discussion was on topic about regulators such as IPSO; and the SPSO being Establishment lapdogs rather than regulators of Public Services.
Some of the biggest critics of the SPSO are SNP members eg. Alex Neil MSP.
It was a Labour administration and Scottish Parliament that voted in the SPSO legislation.
It has been subsequent SNP Scot Govts (mainly minority) and Scottish Parliaments that have failed to address the seriously flawed system introduced by Labour.
To blame it all on the SNP would be oversimplifying things but, SNP MSPs and SNP Scot Govts deserve their share of criticism for avoiding proper regulation of the Scottish Establishment.
The Scottish Govt are part of the Public Services “regulated” by the SPSO, so it also suits any Scottish Govt to have a pro-Establishment ombudsman.
The Scottish Govt and Scottish civil servants care more for their colleagues, their cronies, than they care about justice for Joe Public. They cover each others backs. It’s the way of the world.
Scotland is no different in that regard. To pretend it is a land of virtuous politicians, govt and civil service and public bodies, is dishonest or fantasy world stuff.
Mundell struggles in interviews doesn’t he 🙂
Do not respond to trolls. Just ignore them. Even if provoked,
Mundell is a spineless makeweight, a non-entity, put there to spew nonsense, on-demand – and he has the look of the day-boy sensing a thrashing from the prefect …
Jim Sillars – the DISGRUNTLED guy who didn’t get “the slot” he wanted – not everyone gets to be Pericles – but personal disappointment should be put aside when the enemy is using you as a weapon against your own cause.
Think there’s a fair bit of attempts at conning going on. A lot of it aimed at denying Devolution means anything.
Put it this way. The document I linked to and the page it’s on are official publications of the UK government. They make it clear that consent is required to enact. The pdf is the source of the sentence about not normally legislating and by mentioning the final stages of the legislative process confirms that there’s a distinction between “make law” and “legislate”
Think of it as running a race in the hopes you’ll win.
As for Jim Sillars. I always consider his comments worth reading as thought provoking.
I disagree with his views on GM food, fracking and other things.
I think his views on the many visits between the FM and EU politicians is fair comment. The EU’s pro-UK and pro-Spain stance is undeniable.
Regarding the SNP disruption. I approved of Mr Blackford’s stunt and the SNP walkout. It brought focus to the disgraceful situation of no real debate on the betrayal of the Sewel Convention.
However, how did we get to this situation? Indyref1.
Should Scotland be an independent country? Yes – but UK govt won’t say when.
No = the UK Govt have carte blanche of screw Scotland any way it wants.
How did indyref help Scotland? It’s being used to undermine devolution and so much more.
Because by framing it Yes and No, No was a blank cheque to make Scotland pay any price the UK Govt asks of it.
I know the answer to that: It’s all the NO voters’ faults.
They do bare blame for it. The Scot Govt / Yes campaign also bear the blame for accepting it as all or nothing.
Cos the result was we are left with nothing and need to fight again.
Fight again we will ( politically) but let’s not fight the same fight.
Yes must offer a win win situation.
The debate and choices chosen by us, not the UK Govt.
Calling it independence just pisses off the anti-EU people like Jim Sillars. He’s right: sharing sovereignty with Brussels is similar to giving sovereignty to London. A wee fish in a big pond, means we get overruled, dominated, disregarded.
Whether that’s worth the price of the benefits of EU membership is a debate for post independence.
The choice should be Scotland’s sovereignty at Holyrood or at UK Parliament with devolution that cannot be overruled.
Not another YES / NO Indyref mess.
Liz g,
It is perfectly possible to make the same self-ventilating building design safe. The ventilating ducts simply have to be able to close when the fire alarms go off.
Here is a large, modern, complex, self-ventilating and self-heating building.
ttps://duckduckgo.com/?q=ING+HQ&t=ffsb&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fn7.alamy.com%2Fzooms%2F7a8f6b46545a47a891d628424408dda4%2Fing-bank-headquarters-in-amsterdam-at-madurodam-interactive-miniture-dc8bj3.jpg
Sorry about the size of the link!
Dave McEwan Hill @12.04: “What have they got on the pair of them?”
If I happen to bump into you at Bannockburn, I will let you know my theory :wink” .
Totally O/T but any keen gardeners will appreciate my excitement.
My Puya berteroniana has a flower stalk growing!
@Orri
Mundell has taken ‘not normally’ to infer any abnormal situation rather than rarely. He intends to control reams of legislation by his interpretation. Most people would take ‘not normally’ to be almost never. It is not by chance they used wording that can be interpreted differently by people. That’s what happens when you allow legally vague words into legislation, I suspect that’s why the EU wants exact legal wording, they see how Westminster has used vague wording in the past.
Tony Blair was a master at this, framing sentences that the majority thought meant one thing but in effect actually often meant the exact opposite.
Beechgrove Gardens will be delighted
Jim Sillars has been a sleeper within the SNP since the 70’s.There ate many others.CA will know who they are.
@cearc. When did you plant your puya b? Or are you a very sprightly 120 year old!!
Always follow the money, or the land, or the sea, or the location and Da Daah Scotland has the lot
Simples
It’s actually a waste of time worrying about Mundell, he’s a puppet, there to deliver the views of his masters in Westminster. He would be replaced by another puppet, The Tories have another 12 to choose from, none there really representing Scotland.
He is only still there because the other 12 are even more useless it would seem. The only plus point is the more we shout for his resignation the less likely May is to get rid of him. Remember she likes to get her own way without involving/telling anyone else, she wasn’t called submarine for nothing.
Still on holiday travelling around Staffordshire/Derbyshire. Something I’ve never noticed before is the number of Union/England flags on buildings in quantities I’ve never seen in Scotland with Saltires. It’s a sort of 1930’s Germany experience.
Sarah,
About 8 yrs ago, so it’s about spot on time for the original rosette to flower (not a hundred year variety).
Dave McEwan Hill @ 12:04,
I had always understood it was because of HMS Brittania, the scrapping thereof. Apparently Her Maj. was not amused.
jfngw @ 14:50,
Weasel words like “normally” have no place in legislation, which should always be clear and precise. And this deliberate conniving little loophole is now about to be widened into a 6-lane highway.
I doubt that the UKGov pays any attention whatever to Mundell these days (or Rude Gal either, for that matter), he’s just there to punt their decisions in the “Scottish” =cough= media like a washed-up third-rate counterfeit goods salesman.
“Jim Sillars has been a sleeper within the SNP since the 70’s”.
Utter nonsense. It’s thanks to Jim Sillars, Margo MacDonald and the other members of the 79 Group such as Alex Salmond, that the SNP became more than a fringe presure group.
I was in a couple of countries lately, one of them was the Phillipines, what struck me most of all was how the people there have not really got any interest in politics or the media, by that I mean nobody talks about it.
I happened to be in one of the provinces when an election was on, the electioneering lasted about 3 days, done and dusted and everything went back to normal.
In the UK, it never seems to stop, election for this, election for that, no wonder people get bored with politics here.
Colin Alexander @ 15:20,
Whatever, but misses the point entirely. (So what’s new there?)
I was there at the eve-of-election hustings in Govan when he won and the atmosphere was electric. Because he stood for something important and ordinary people were responding.
Now he is no more than a bitter antediluvian has-been wrecker muttering from the sidelines and sadly trashing his own reputation in the process.
To what purpose? To be just another useful idiot for the ever-hungry BritNat media?
Not a happy sight.
Bill not Ben @ 15:31,
Yes, I know. It’s all too bothersome, this unsettling democratic argy-bargy. How the Swiss manage to cope is anybody’s guess. Must be that alpine air or something.
What we really need is to get rid of the bothersome business entirely. Get somebody to take charge and “make the trains run on time”. To implement the Will of the People, as Theresa frequently likes to remind us these days.
That should fix it for (people like) you.
Colin Alexander@15.20.
CA was not a direct reference to you my friend..check out the 79 group.Also your knickers are showing the SNP were polling plus 25 (30 in October ) percent post 74 ffs.Fringe pressure group indeed.”Busted flush “ Colin.Remember some of us are old enough and ugly enough to have witnessed all sorts within the party.Florida signing off.
@Bill not Ben
`bored with politics`
think you are on the wrong site (this being a political blog),
instead of reading political blogs you should maybe be watching the fitba or some reality show,
let others do your thinking for you,
a lot of people in SCO and rUK have had enough of corrupt politicians and their corrupt friends getting away with murder.
Looks like the only thing missing from the Marr/May interview was the bow and finishing the questions with ‘your majesty’. The questions were obviously vetted beforehand if not delivered from No 10.
People like Marr will suffer any indignity just to be seen interviewing the PM, the sycophancy is bile inducing.
I haven’t actually seen the interview but have given my verdict without having to endure it. If my conclusions are wrong then no doubt I’ll be corrected.
The britnat media loves poor old Jim Sillars. And by the look of it he loves the britnat media.
The Isolator
I get your point. Sadly, percentage of vote won meant nothing in FPTP. Seats won is all that mattered.
If I were to criticise the FM, it would be over the failure to make better use of MPs in the fight for independence.
I would argue that MPs are the senior politicians, not MSPs. So the fight for indy should be led by them.
That indy should be by the election of a majority of pro-indy MPs.
That indy by indyref via the Scot Parl was a tactic worth trying at the time but is now a proven failure, due to the ability of UK Govt and their agents to control the process and unduly influence the result.
Maybe that lesson has finally been learned?
But it’s getting that through to the indyref fanatics that’s the problem now.
Colin Alexander @ 16:31:
=LOL= The only obvious failure after the last few days in the HoC is your one-time fervent ad nauseam championing of federalism!
There isn’t a single diversionary (non-)solution you haven’t punted in your desperation to distract and decry. One moment you’re pro-EU and the next it’s become an anti-democratic nightmare. You’re all over the place, like a demented merry-go-round.
What is your latest magic non-solution now? Prayer to one’s favourite divinity? =snicker=
(No, don’t bother. We’re not listening.)
I spoke to Jim Sillars, asking him if he knew Tommy Sheridan, he sad yes, so I asked him to get TS to north t be such an easy target for the BBC to use to attack the Ind arguments. They had him on saying the kind f thing that would scare some voters.
That was at the Ind Ref. JS said, Yes, the BBC are using him. he obviously wasn’t self aware.
@jfngw
Amazing…you summed it up perfectly.
Marr is playing his assigned role perfectly…if a Knighthood is worth surrendering your dignity for.
Jim Sillers has done more damage recently than Marr and Brown combined.
I suspect that having his ego massaged by the unionist media has proven very effective (for them). The fact that they can hang titles on him to inflate his “Independence credentials ” does a lot of damage.
He has become a very useful idiot for the opposition.
@ Nana: “Reporting Scotland uses right-wing fundamentalist thinktank to try to undermine the SNP.”
Ah, so the Institute of Fiscal Studies is fair game. “Beware the IFS when it comes to policy issues: it is very far from the neutral think tank it likes to pretend to be but is, instead, a fully paid up advocate of neoliberalism and the flooding up of wealth.”
But for some strange reason The National gives Reform Scotland a free pass to advise that Scotland needs more immigrants, despite Reform’s core philosophy being based on the principles of ‘limited government, diversity and personal responsibility.’
Most certainly neoliberal, but more startlingly, ever-so-slightly libertarian. Of course, this admission of motivation is there to read on their website, so it’s not as if they’re hiding it; it’s just puzzling that The National failed to mention this, referring to them merely as ‘centre-right’.
Reluctant Nationalist @ 17:28,
As it happens, the IFS were being quoted on the R4 lunchtime news today saying that May’s counterfactual “Brexit Dividend” re-tread is pure bunkum (or words to that effect), and will simply lead to raised UK taxes. (So much for Rude Gal’s protestations on that score.)
What IFS giveth, the IFS also taketh away, it seems… =grin=
So income tax will rise in England to pay for improved public services. Looking forward to the condemnation of this from Daily Express/Mail/Telegraph as they did with the Scottish government. Looking forward to the MOD covering the extra tax burden for soldiers based in England in comparison with tax in Scotland as they did with tax rises in Scotland.
@ RJS
Haha, brilliant!
Terence callachan at 11.10 a.m.
Regarding business water rates: Due to a recent rates re evaluation, I find our wee business paying water rates for the first time. Scottish Water signed us up without our consent with a Supplier of Scottish water. In Manchester!!
So the privatised payments aren’t to Scottish companies at all. Another avenue for the hidden extraction of money from Scotland….
May’s Tories will find it difficult to raise taxes (which will also rise in Scotland corresponding by the way) to pay for facilities/projects in the rest of the UK, from which Scotland does not benefit. Barnett Formula creation. That was why it was implemented in the 1980’s. Thatcher. To secretly and illegally take £Billions from Scotland.
May/Tories will find it difficult to raise taxes they had a manifesto last year which made no mention of raising taxes and they claim to be the Party of low taxation. How will that play out for credibility? Lying again. May will do what she usually does and blame someone else. All this policies going round and causing hardship were supported by her in the first place. Making people sick and killling vulnerable people. No mercy.
I’m afraid I have to disagree on this one. IPSO are correct.
Comparing like for like on the booze for example, if you ordered online ANYWAY, you can avoid the NEW prices. That much IS true.
The problem is that without actually lying it is entirely possible to mislead people to the extent that it becomes DISHONEST but yet not an actual lie.
For example, I can truthfully say that I am a billionaire. That is an undeniable fact. However, I am a billionaire in Zimbabwean dollars and therefore the amount of currency I hold would have barely been enough to buy a loaf prior to the currency being banned from being traded due to hyperinflation.
IPSO is looking to protect papers from being called out as liars but NOT to protect the readers from the dishonesty they promulgate.
There needs to be a body that will look past the weasel words and actually do a ‘sniff test’ ie if it smells like bullsh*t etc…
Here is something to have a quick think over.
Treeza has been utterly ridiculed today over her “brexit dividend” slaverings in relation to the £400million/week for the NHS she announced this morning (debunked and ridiculed before lunchtime???).
“UNAFFORDABLE because of brexit” says THE Institute for Fiscal Studies.
It would mean MASSIVE tax rises or HUGE borrowing by WM.
All good so far ?
Excellent.
So, now the bit you will not see mentioned in the media.
If WM is screwed over finding £20billion/year, and finding it means tax hikes or excessive borrowing, then just imagine the financial damage to WM treasury to SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE !!
1. Scottish taxpayers currently send £54billion to WM and gets just £30billion back.
With independence, SCOTLAND will retain ALL of that money.
Cost to WM = £24 BILLION.
Thats £4 Billion MORE than the crippling effect of finding £20bn for the NHS under treeza’s “brexit dividend”…!!
2. Independence loses WM over £10 Billion in VAT the currently take from Scotland and keep.
3. WM current take £5.6 Billion in Scotch Whisky revenues and allocate Scotland £800,000, so thats another WM loss of £4.8 Billion.
4. WM (HMRC actually) recently admitted Oil and gas revenues were NOT the £2.38 Bn (over 2 years, 2014/15) they told Scots, turns out the REAL figure was £17.4 Billion, so thats an average of £8.7 Billion/year (when oil was worth nearly HALF it is now).
Lets be kind, and take the published figures, so thats AT LEAST £8.7 BILLION WM will lose after indy.
Lets add those 4 aspects of revenue WM will lose when we become independent.
£24,000,000,000 (general taxation)
£10,000,000,000 (VAT)
£4,800,000,000 (WHISKY taxation)
£8,700,000,000 (oil and gas taxation)
That is a NET LOSS to WM of £47,500,000,000 (£47.5 BILLION just by Scotland becoming independent. And thst is only 4 aspects of revenue WM takes and keeps from Scotland.
Now, remember that WM finding £20 Billion for the NHS is according to the IFS, impossible, without causing HUGE tax rises or HUGE extra borrowing.
Imagine what LOSING (at the very minimum) £47.5 Billion will do to the WM finances ???
Anyone still believe THEY subsidise Scotland ?
As i say, the media will never mention the cost of Indy to WM after we leave, but WE CAN SPREAD THE WORD. !!!
Tinto Chiel at 2.33
Heard stuff I can’t mention on here. Tom Bower’s biography of Brown in interesting if very guarded.
Robert J. Sutherland
I challenge you to provide one quote, just one, where I say I support a federal UK. You can’t, cos I’ve never said it. You’re assertion is MINCE.
As for the EU. I said I voted Remain, as did the majority of Scotland, so Scotland should have stayed in the EU, as that’s democracy. However, the UK Govt decided we’re a unitary state and the SNP went along with that all UK must leave, despite the precedent of Denmark and Faroe Islands and Greenland: part of Denmark in and part out.
But, that was then. Situations change and so can political opinions, based on the circumstances at the time.
Ask me AFTER Scotland is independent, whether I support EU membership or something else. That’s when it would be appropriate to give my view.
@Dave McEwan Hill: quite so.
I’ll be the one at Bannockburn waving a saltire.
The tell is the phrase “long term plan” . means no immediate rise in funding.
Jim Sillars has a very singular vision for Scottish independence. He has never been a great team player regardless of which party he was with. In the end even Margo was an independent rather than standing for a specific party.
Jim’s pro Bexit very left of centre vision is old school 1960s politics. I don’t decry Jim for that and I don’t think he will ever change but the world has moved on. What is practical and possible has to drive politics.
So I am not surprised by his views. Of course Davidson and others lap it up…until he turns and bites. They do the same with Alex Bell although they probably were less keen on Alex’s last in the Courier (on the stupidity of Brexit).
As you all know I’m no extreme leftie but I liked this Lenin quote I got from a friend, as we chatted about Scottish independence.
Hope it’s useful!
Adjust as you will!
“If you want a revolution, freedom, popular representation … you must be strong.
You are weak?
Revolution is for the strong! Our lot is to remain in rags.
You are weak?
Only the strong win freedom. The weak will always remain slaves. The experience of all history.
You are weak?
You will be represented by your masters, the slave-owners, the exploiters.
“Representation” is either conquest by the strong, or a scrap of paper, a hoax, blindfolding the one who is weak so as to dull his faculties.
– V. I. Lenin
Dorothy Devine @ 8.06
RE The Bannockburn March
Dear Dorothy,
The route for the march is 4 miles long. There is a very steep uphill section about a mile from the end. BUT why don’t you get to the Bannockburn Centre early, have a cuppa in the cafe at the Memorial centre and then walk out to the north corner of the Field into Borestone Place and wait for the March to arrive – probably sometime around 1.45 or later- and join the March for the last few hundred yards?
Anyone wanting to see the planned route click here and scroll down. Stirling Council have published the names of the roads to be used. 1pm start from King’s Park
link to my.stirling.gov.uk
Watched Brewers droop earlier where he was desperate and I mean Desperate to get fluffy to accept Labours amendments made up by Ta Da a broontervention
FFS who opened the crypt and asked this PROVEN CORRUPT LIAR to comment on anything to do with Scotland , have we Scots not suffered enough from this idiots incompetence
Has the brit nat propaganda machine the bbc been appointed as the SG replacing the SNP SG , the desperation of brewer to FORCE fluffy to accept liebours amendments was absolutely cringeworthy , it was as if he were saying please davy accept these and it will defeat the SNP stance ,liebour will then concede and you will win
This has shades of the BURDS ” lets call it devomax ” shyste , is it now that the bbc is Scotland’s government and they decide our options , they don’t report the fake news they make it
We were then presented by the oily , slithering sssssnake that is paul sweeney , who immediately informed us Scots that the wastemonster government are sovereign and can overrule anything the SG decides . This creep is preparing for glory and higher placement he needs to be cut down to size
O/T
Check out Britain’s shameful treatment of the Chagos Islands.
Jim Sillars
Best ignored.
It’s people like him who have held this Nation back, divisive and delusional.
Problem is, Unionist media know it.
Bannockburn March– Been a number of times to Bannockburn site and the new centre.
Never carried or flown a Saltire there.
Now it seems all the more important to do so to commemorate the sacrifices of our forefathers but also to fight for a better future for this country and its people.
Meg merriless,
Why have they made the march route at bannockburn so very long? It may deter some people. 4 miles?
The Glasgow route (the last AUOB march) was almost exactly three miles. I didn’t do that one but have covered the same route previously and found it tiring. For folk with prams, sticks etc it must’ve been a bit of a grind.
Four miles does seem a bit much, so folk should make sensible decisions about where to join.
OT
Noticed a tweet on Rev’s Twitter feed from Andrew Tickell…
“A good rule of thumb: there is no cunning legal loophole or technicality by which Scotland can become an independent country, and anyone who tells you there is doesn’t know what they’re talking about….”
That’s a bit of a downer if he’s talking about Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty being subjugated by Brexit and Westminster thereby irredeemably breaks the Treaties of Union.
I wouldn’t exactly call that route to I dependence as a cunning loophole, but I’m struggling to tie down whatever else Mr Tickell might be referring to.
Anybody know the fuller context of Mr Tickell’s pinned tweet?
The BBC recruiting sergeants are doing a great job for the SNP right now as membership soars! Bird, Brewer, Campbell, Magnusson, Taylor & Co. Suppose we should be appreciative!
AUOB – Kings Park, Stirling to Bannockburn March is 2.263 miles. I printed off a wee map that was on the AUOB facebook page but can’t find the link now…..will keep looking.
Colin Alexander @ 19:35,
What a joke. I’m not going to waste my precious time hunting for the many, many, quotes from you on that subject, wormtongue, but Liz G will back me up on that for sure, since she spent even more effort than me in countering the previous federalism shyste you were trying out when you first showed up here. Then we just thought you were naive and misguided.
After that there was a 180-degree lurch to some kind of UDI and instant revolution. Duh.
You have weathervaned all over the shop over the EU as well, and now you try to sanctimoniously pretend that you’ll maintain a self-imposed silence on that till after independence. Yet you can’t even stop yourself from inserting one snide little anti-EU comment on this very thread at 14:20.
You’re a glib little twister, and your only consistent theme is divide-and-conquer. Which places where you’re coming from very clearly indeed.
found the link for Bannockburn March link to plotaroute.com
Robert Louis says:
17 June, 2018 at 9:44 pm
Meg merriless,
Why have they made the march route at bannockburn so very long? It may deter some people. 4 miles?
Not an organiser, but Bannockburn is a bit of a walk from Castle, but the Tollbooth is just down the hill a bit from the Castle. It’s “old town” Stirling, and while 4 miles might be too much for some, for others, the historic setting will make it a tremendously poignant occasion. I think if memory serves, you can also see the Wallace Monument from the Tollbooth general area. It’s quite an auspicious place to start an Independence March.
It’s a great pity you couldn’t do the first mile and the last mile, and leave out a chunk in the middle, but that’s geography for you… Maybe some folks might need to think along the lines of doing just that, maybe having the car parked strategically… It’s a tricky one, no mistake.
I don’t know what can be done to help the weary along. I might have suggested the March maybe takes a breather and a pause, but once it’s going, it’s not an easy thing to stop and start.
I would also warn those amongst us who rely on wheels rather than heels, that it’s not just the distance, because the Tollbooth and Baker Street are pretty steep. Make sure your buggy is MOT’d and had the brakes checked.
Lawyers like “journalists” deal in what looks like the perceptibly true until later when they’re proved wrong but nobody noticed because they didn’t state it as fact
No precedent no law, create precedent, law
Not really particularly lawyery quoting thumbs
@Breeks,
I wouldn’t call a fundamental breach of the Treaty of Union a ‘ cunning legal loophole ‘ or a ‘ technicality ‘ but hey ho. The English Parliament signed up to these T & C’s, and it isn’t relevant if they did so in bad Faith and had no intention of honouring them, what’s important is what we do about it.
Plus the return from Bannockburn!
Oh wait…. Forget I spoke. I’m quoting an out of date route… I thought is was starting at the Tollbooth… looks like it’s the golf course instead…
Just join in and join out, as folk like. Either at the start. Have a break and then join up nearer the end. Great long marches can be a put off for many people with mobility issues or youngsters. It should be a celebration march. Not a route march out of the capibiliies or logistics. It can be counter productive. That is why some people do not march but just spectate to give support.
The logistics of a long march make it difficult. Also sometimes the terrain can be difficult. Step hills or summits Can be too much for some people – time wise as well. They have to be other places. Working, caring or study duties. Or away on holidays So campaign or donate in other relevant ways that surffice. People have busy lives.
At one of the Independence Marches in Edinburgh before Indy. Large turn out. Ended with speeches in Princes Street Gardens. (22nd Sept 2012). Many people working in Edinburgh did not ever know it was happening. It is an all day or weekend commitment.
It nearly didn’t happen because unionists on Edinburgh council tried at the last minute to demand £thousands for insurance liabilities. Or health & safety? A few days before. One of the organisers – in the know. Applied for an entertainment? licence. By Laws. Cost £10. That is why the March went ahead. Or it would have had to be cancelled. People had taken time off of other commitments. Booked hotels and paid for travel arrangement, it can be a big commitment. Expense. Joyous though.
Or just vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.
@Robert J. Sutherland (10.17) –
Hear hear.
Many of us long-since abandoned any dealings with that character, but your observations are bang-on.
Good on ye for taking the time to flag ‘him’ up for the benefit of recent arrivals.
😉
@msdidi
Thanks for the link to the route of the march on Saturday, 2.2 miles will be much easier for most and is a good bit shorter than the Glasgow march. Glad to hear that it wasn’t 4 miles after all.
@Breeks 10:05pm
This might be what Tickell’s referring to:
Aye Robert J, you’ve nailed him completely…as Ian says most of us gave up wrangling wi him months ago after tirelessly debating wi him when he arrived. Precious waste of energy and time that we can all now scarcely afford. Time to leave him be.
He thinks we’re mugs and don’t recall the endless spouting crap…we do and we’re done responding to him. Ah second Ian’s comment…the occasional ‘flag’ dispels the ‘yous are so ‘unfair’ to me attention seeking drivel’ that he resorts to when challenged about his past posts on here.
@Breeks
I think, could be wrong as the tweet is a bit vague, that the power grab in itself will not be a technicality that allows Scotland to declare itself independent. The treaty states that new parliament can change Scots Law for the better, that phrase is almost as bad as ‘not normally’ as what is ‘for the better’. And I think the Devolution agreement effectively retains that power.
The only way to independence is if the people of Scotland choose it as a majority. That is through the ballet box or by force as has always been the case. I’m not advocating the force route just that these are the only two options that I believe exist.
I watched the Germany Vs Mexico game before heading out and was sickened again by the high jacking of a wonderful game into a love England Fest.
They must have used the word England at least 50 times?
They weren’t playing!
They even cut short the half time analysis to put in some footage
of God’s Chose ones, The Family, at work rest and play.
I sometimes question why I enjoy seeing them embarrass themselves at football after pathetic claims they are champions in the waiting.
Other European Countries with populations of over 50 Million have won multiple world cups and European Championships but England have not had so much as a 3rd place in 52 years.
Why can they just be realistic and stop promoting themselves to be red hot contesters?
Maybe then some other nations might give them some support. could
Brewer is a time serving Labour/unionist. That’s how he got the job. An incompetent ignoramous. Dunce. The other day he was trying to claim he did not know a Tory had shouted out ‘suicide’. It was all over the internet. The desperation to cover it up. He claims to be a serious ‘political’ commentator. His bias he cannot hide. A joke Comedy half hour.
‘Dame’ Margaret Smith, (HoL? Pantomine) a LibDem, started to go on about what a travesty leaving the EU was to be. The panic he couldn’t get her shut up quick enough. Ironic when Clegg the lying LibDem had a part in causing Brexit backing up Cameron. The Tory+unionists are disintergrating into rabble. Babbling bunch of inadequates.
Watch it as little as possible. Let him find another troughing post. It was supposed to be taken off. His contract finished because of low viewing figures. Another joke. Excruciating.
Mundell had been over the TV in a damage limit exercise. A turn off. Switch off or turn over. Laughable, when most people can’t stand the sight of him or his cronies, Or even know who he is? A 600 ‘majority’. A liability. Hopefully the thieving stops soon.
‘David Dimbleby to leave QT after 25 years?’
Mathew Wright has gone. A Tory mug on the prog. ‘ SNP has hardly any members’. Titter. Only more than the Tory Party. Thousands more (pro rata)
@Colin Alexander:
Come on Colin, most Wingers do not button up the back.
So when someone, with a long track record of bitter criticism of the SNP when in Government, says this:- ” … It has been subsequent SNP Scot Govts (mainly minority) and Scottish Parliaments that have failed to address the seriously flawed system introduced by Labour.
It doesn’t take the brain of Britain to work out what is being got at and note the systems were NOT introduced by the SNP but it is the SNP you quote first.
Any normal person would be blaming Labour and if they even mentioned the SNP to would be along the lines of an afterthought like, ” … and by the way the SNP have not been able to repeal it.”
Whatever else we are, Colin, we are not daft.
It doesn’t pass many people’s notice that it is much harder to change an existing law, or system, than to instigate a new one. Neither does it escape many people’s notice that the SNP has every unionist party in Holyrood except the Greens, against them and they act as one. As they did to repeal the behaviour at Football legislation. There are basically only two parties at Holyrood, the Scotnats and the Britnats.
You will note the last election was officially supposed to be to elect MPs to Westminster but was fought by the Britnat coalition as if it were not,
Whereas, when Labour, or a coalition, was in power the SNP alone voted for what was best for Scotland’s people. The situation now is that if it is an SNP motion the Unionist Party, (they act as if the one Britnat party), automatically vote against it for no other reason than to defeat the SNP.
The last thought in their minds is what is best for Scotland and her peoples.
RE The MacKintosh School of Art Fire.
It look like the Fire definitely started off site and if it can be proven that it has been spread from a struggling pub,
then surely that Insurer would be footing the repair bill?
Everything that can be saved must be saved.
No matter what the re-build cost this jewel in Glasgow’s Crown must be reinstated.
Let us look upon this tragedy as an opportunity to rebuild an exact replica on the surface but this time add the insulation, the ventilation, energy efficient boilers, fibre optic communications, etc.
If the buildings below the Art School are destroyed, we should have a competition to see who can come up with the best replacement designs that can be created in the style of MacKintosh.
We have not done enough to support the tourists who visit this great city who want to visit Mac’s Buildings and see his designs
We have great numbers now coming in from Cruise Ships berthed in
Greenock. Let’s develop that entire site for these tourists and our future generations.
Be an idea to find some way of having access for at least 4 coach loads arriving there every couple of hours.
An underground bus park area?
PS Many years ago I did some work in one of Mackintosh’s lesser known buildings and I spoke to visitors from South America, Hawaii, and Mexico, who came to Glasgow specifically attracted by Mac’s work.
Effigy@11.02
I watch the WC goals on Youtube.
The last few world cups (when we had the tv licence) I got that pissed off with the constant reference to Engerland in every game, I no longer bother with international football, unless its Palestine (because they have no players who play in Engerland,) then again Israel shoot most of their players.
You Tube Palestine football, its more honest than what the “beautiful game” has become.
Anyone but England or Israel.
Robert Louis, Ian Brotherhood, Dorothy Devine, Ken 500
Re Bannockburn March Route – please use the link below.
see msdidi@10.28
link to plotaroute.com
I’m so glad you’ve corrected my mistake re the route for Bannockburn on Saturday. It is 2.23 miles long – not 4miles.
I had the route starting from near the Castle as per the leaflet issued at Glasgow, so I would have been up there wondering where you all were!! Worse still, I might have put some people off attending. Breeks – snap!
@ Meg merrilees
It’s possible the Yes Bikers are still starting from the Tolbooth, since that is the route described on their Facebook. I can imagine there being enough room for them to gather there, but not for the many thousands of pedestrians we are hoping for.
I shall be going that way anyway, since I am starting out from near the castle. Perhaps I shall see you at the Wings stall. Usually I return from such events and discover someone I really want to meet was there, but not at the same time as I was.
Unfortunately I will not be at the Bannockburn march on Saturday.
Good luck to all who are able to go. With you all in spirit.
I will
]
wi;;
unately
I
Totally ignore the last 4 lines in my last post. Don’t know what happened.
BBC Question Time: The front runner appears to be Emily Maitlis
In other news Ruth Davidson’s come out of her hidey hole to announce 2billion for Scotlands NHS because of her Glorious leader’s benevolence ….and of course our Brexit blessed Union dividend
So are you convinced Scotchland…Nah thought not
BTW Ruth’s back in her hidey hole again till Thursday when it’ll be the stupidist thing she utters when she leads with this latest piece of drivel
Remember folks in all of the countries on all of the face of planet earth Scotland is the only country that isn’t able run its own affairs
Do you believe that…Nah thought not
Robert J Sutherland @ 10.17
Absolutely Robert J…. Totally backing ye up here..
I try my best to understand another point of view (and I’m no playing,the,, spend loads of time tryin tae find a comment,,
game,,,either)
Colin Alexander consistently or mibbi persistently presents a circular argument.
Some,I think, would say that he has mair positions than the Karma Sutra,, but, being as innocent as I am, I couldn’t possibly comment!
Anyhoo as long as – someone – is calling him out for it..(thank you).. I can avoid his shit, IMHO,he depicts Westminster completely.. as in, punting every conceivable proposal… And telling us… There is no other way!
A Plausible Swine right enough… but he actually adds nothing to the debate, just a back door mantra for “fixing” the Union..Dressed up as reason!!
We are beyond that now!! We’ve a Country tae build!!
Borderlands. David Mundell and Philip Hammond creating a funding link between the Scottish and English borders:
link to archive.li
Could this be the brainchild of Rory “Middleland” Stewart, Tory MP for Penrith. His Wiki entry doesn’t mention his spying career in Iraq and Afghanistan.
So the border between Scotland and England is “fabricated” according to the historical illiterati in the BBC. I suppose every national border is “fabricated”, by people living in a country. Denmark thinks its border with Germany is real though. So does Poland. Quite a lot of energy was spent insisting on that 70 years ago.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Of course, it could be that Cumbria and Northumberland wish to return to Scotland.
Vote No Borders?
Capella, apparently Berwick Upon Tweed would like to return to Scotland.
It’s a bonny place with lovely folk =)
@ Ghillie – Maybe Holyrood should create a Minister for Cumbria and Berwick?
We could recover all the north of England down to Hadrian’s Wall. After all, a lot of English people think Hadrian’s Wall is the border anyway.
Welcome home!
Links
As the @ScotGov publishes a new Brexit paper, Justice Secretary @MathesonMichael has warned of the challenges faced by Scotland’s law enforcement agencies if #Brexit proceeds without effective substitute arrangements for #justice & security co-operation
link to twitter.com
link to stirlingsnp.com
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.com
link to indyref2.scot
link to thenational.scot
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
Lesley Riddoch – In Conversation in Troon, June 2018 Part 1
link to youtube.com
Anti-nuclear protests planned for ‘arms fair’ in Glasgow
link to archive.is
Is Scotland classed as a ‘hot spot’
Reminder: as Royal Navy grows with the addition of 2 new aircraft carriers and new F35 warplanes, its openly-declared goals are to control resource-rich regions and threaten those who challenge this. (Called ‘defence’
link to twitter.com
Mandy Rhodes: Gone in 15 minutes… The day Westminster lost Scotland’s trust
link to archive.is
link to randompublicjournal.com
For any new readers
link to ncdiblog.wordpress.com
link to irishtimes.com
link to irishtimes.com
Merkel seeks EU crisis talks as migration rocks Berlin coalition
link to archive.is
link to politicshome.com
Berwick sits north of the Tweed so it’s already geographically in Scotland
Some interesting reading here
link to celticcountries.com
UK PM May says need to ensure parliament does not overturn Brexit
link to archive.is
Brexit: misdirection
link to eureferendum.com
May double-crossed Grieve over Brexit – this is a constitutional crisis
link to archive.is
link to sluggerotoole.com
Capella says:
18 June, 2018 at 6:16 am
Borderlands. David Mundell and Philip Hammond creating a funding link between the Scottish and English borders:
It is seen as having the potential to unlock significant investment in the area covered by the councils of Dumfries and Galloway, Scottish Borders, Northumberland, Cumbria and Carlisle City.
“Hundreds of businesses and individuals are in Dumfries to hear the latest on efforts to secure a cross-border “growth deal”, …. says the BBC, but we all know the only reliable growth deal you get with the BBC is the length of its nose…
Is Tory spin on £2billion for Scottish NHS correct? Is Barrnet consequentials 10% rather than population share of 8.4%?
Graeme says:
18 June, 2018 at 7:11 am
Berwick sits north of the Tweed so it’s already geographically in Scotland…
If people want to be Scots, we welcome them on board. If whole toons want to be Scots, again, then it sounds fine to me.
According to Time Team and Tony Robinson, it’s possession by the English was death of Berwick. Maybe not quite death, but left in Scottish hands, for Berwick and Kelso, read Leith and Edinburgh… Boom to bust for Berwick.
Be very interesting too, because upon Indy, apparently the EU has funds available for improving trade links and communication between EU nations. Makes you wonder what might be available to beef up Berwick as a trading port with Europe… Quite the place to be if the Border becomes a European Border.
The only fly in the ointment is Scottish Borders Council. Once the people of Berwick meet the rats at SBC, they’ll likely decide to stay English.
@Dr Jim
That’ll be the Emily Maitlis who once asked Angus Robertson, live on TV, why he didn’t just admit that his party didn’t want to Scotland to be part of England any more…
Effijy at 1102 pm,
Haha the BBC are even worse than that. Here’s a quick question, what does the groundsman at the Queen’s tennis club have to do with England illegally winning the world cup in 1966? Simple, that was the year the groundsman started there (or his father).
This came to us courtesy of a weather forecast live from Queen’s on the BBC ‘news’ channel this morning. ‘Scottish’ weather lady started interview by saying, so with the world cup on right now, I hear you have a close link to 1966. Said person then responded by saying it was a great year for BRITISH sport.
For London’s gold and all that.
Even the freaking weather and Queen’s tennis club. We really should have a competition to see just how many extremely tenuous links the blatantly biased and extreme British Nationalist BBC can come up with to ‘1966’ before tomorrow.
Now…where do I buy a tunisia shirt….
Good to hear the Bannockburn march route is only 2.263 miles, and NOT 4 miles.
However, can I just say, the organisers do need to think hard for future marches about how long/uphill etc a route is.
Hopefully the carebots are pre programmed to understand complexity, multimorbidity, issues with health literacy otherwise they will be stuck in a loop of disconnected algorithms. Will there be a power source available to charge them up after Brexit;
link to telegraph.co.uk
An view from a real person about NHS England and its funding shortfalls;
nhaparty.org/dr-louise-irvine-interviewed-by-bbc-london-and-lbc/
Austerity seems to be bad for everyone’s health and well-being but most of us know that;
‘Concluding his nine viewpoints, Bradford Hill highlights that none of them provide ‘indisputable evidence’, but they help answer the fundamental question: ‘is there any other way of explaining the set of facts before us, is there any other answer equally, or more, likely than cause and effect?’ To date, no alternative to austerity has been established as the reason for the stalling life expectancy’
link to dannydorling.org
The Borders issue with the North of England was an inevitable tactic from the unionists. We should have preempted it with a campaign to persuade those areas to join Scotland. Many people, particularly Northumbrians whose dislike of London and the south grows continuously, find that an interesting prospect.
“Come with us, join oil rich Scotland”
QT Falling poor, viewer numbers? Reorganisation, BBC vastly overpaid arrogant subservient prima donnas. Cost £3.7Billions a year. Scotland is overpaying for the services receives. (pro rata). Political bias.
BBC vast inequality problems of poor governance. Entrenched Uncensored abuse. Breaking the Law at it’s convenience. Funding it’s vast commercial estate. A flagship of mismanagement and abuse. The BBC flagship political/news programmes have a low audience rating, kept secret. Under Westminster Gov control of mismanagement. Political bias.
David Dimbleby is 79 (80 in Oct) well pass standard retirement age. Along with other ‘presenters’ illogically favoured with often several programmes remit. Politically biased, With vast pension provision. Publically funded.
It is about time the retirement age in public institutions and Gov Office social attitudes and social attitudes and society were brought in line with standard legislative retirement age to reflect society.
A 70 year old limit should be advocated. In Gov or any other publicly funded body. Even the private sector is subject to these Laws rules and regulation with some element of deviation. An offficial retirement age of 67 (70) is stipulated by UK Government and other publically politically funded bodies.
Mundell is using public money and funding to try and buy his seat. With Westminster illegal compliance Corrupt gerrymandering of vast proportions and totally illegal. Public money cannot be used to fund political Parties. Illegal under UK/EU/international? (parliamentary) Laws. Mundell is bribing electoral gain using public money. A corrupt charlatan.
UK/EU International Westminster Law is being broken again, without censor, trying to by pass Scottish Gov controlled areas of legislation. Universal suffrage. One person – one vote. No taxation without representation. Rules now being broken by corrupt Unionists Parties. To thwart democracy in Scotland (UK/EU/International). The advocacy and principle of self determination. Now being obstructed by opportunist, self seeking members of unionist Party. Liars. Including Mundell and Hammond. Corruption personification.
This is a great read via Link from Nana, if you want to find out about labours claim to have created devolution and how great Dewar’s part on it all actually was then you have to read this long but hugely important post.
After Indy, Dewar’s monument in Glasgow has to go.
link to ncdiblog.wordpress.com
II do not know who these people are but feel very proud of what they have done and how they went about it all.
@Arbroath_1320
The entire case hangs on the claim that the Continuity bill contravenes reserved matters and thus is not competent. So the idea the SC cannot rule on it is a complete, utter and total misunderstanding of the situation. THAT is why it is is in the SC and not the Inner Court in Edinburgh.
Phew ! Thank goodness it isn’t 4 miles long – thanks for the information.
Frustrating to read.
link to euronews.com
Why frustrating? Because the only mention Scotland warrants is “The fallout from the referendum has exacerbated tensions within the United Kingdom. Scotland voted heavily to remain in the EU, and the result revived questions concerning Scottish independence from the UK – which was rejected in a 2014 referendum”.
It was written by an ex-BBC freelancer, so what would you expect? However I get the bad feeling that London’s dismissive and deep lack of understanding of all things Scottish is currently mirrored by Europe’s dismissive and deep lack of understanding of all things Scottish. In both cases, without being told, they seem to be making it up their own narrative.
You would certainly hope the SNP has got the message loud and clear that doing “something” raises the spirits of the whole YES community, and that need more “somethings” to keep happening. I certainly hope we’re not going back to standby mode.
I want to see a lot more happening in Europe. Surely, please, Scotland’s whole dialogue with Europe about defending its place in Europe is not going to be defined solely by Alyn Smith’s standing ovation is it? I know there was a Holyrood Committee met Michel Barnier, and the FM has had meetings too, but frankly, Scotland just doesn’t seem to feature on anybody’s European agenda.
This confuses me. Brexit seems to be about endless talks that change nothing. Brexit is a supertanker heading for the rocks and for all the panic, neither speed nor course has altered in two years. In contrast, Scottish Independence is in-bound fast using stealth technology, absolutely nobody is talking about it, but when it hits, it’s going to change virtually every facet of Brexit.
Where is Europe’s signature readiness for this? It seems light. Where are the impact assessments? What are the think tanks thinking? Are the alarm bells switched off? Why doesn’t Europe have published contingencies about this? What is Europe’s position on Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty? Do we have ANY feedback or insight? What thresholds must me cross for Europe to recognise and start speaking to Scotland? ALL of these issues need to be on speed-dial, but from what I can gather, Scotland is all but invisible.
It’s too quiet out there. I don’t like it…
The GSA board of governors should resign. This is a major piece of incompetence on their oversight, repeated.
They can go with some vestige of ‘honour’ or be forced to go. If they remain in situ expect some ‘cover up’ in the offing.
MacKenna in the Observer correctly sniffs the particularities of the west of Scotland air on this matter.
The unionists Parties also, without a mandate or authority of the electorate. Circumvented the electoral procedure and the electoral system of the Scottish Parliament to give them and other Parties unfair advantage. D’Hondt to try and stop the SNP getting an overall majority and frustrate the will and electoral wishes of the Scottish electorate. In that they have succeeded. It served their purpose and disrupted political fairness and justice in Scotland. In order for unionists and other Parties to keep unwarranted control.
Quota system. Thousands of 1st preference SNP votes going in the bin discarded. To let 3rd rate reject unionists and others in. To frustrate the workings and disciplines of the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood, To bring the parliamentary procedures into unqualified stagnation and time wasting. To discredit proceedings. To not reflect the true wishes of the Scottish electorate in order to retain unionist (+other) control. Totally illegally. To frustrate democracy in Scotland, withiutva mandate.
If U go to Stirling by train the march is about the same as Glasgow as U still have to get back into town!
Tory Briggs complaining about Shona Robison & the SNP not spending enough on the NHS on the wireless this morning, aided & abetted by Fanny Robertson. This from a party which keeps Scotland short of cash yet still manages to spend more per head than in England, the self-same Tory hypocrites who voted against tax increases to help the NHS. Shona kept the heid but is too civil to batter Robertson into the grund, Alex Salmond would have demolished him. Another recruiting sergeant for the SNP!
Robert Peffers
I want independence so Scottish govts can be held accountable to the public.
You can have your Robert the Bruce Scotland where any dissent is silenced by a dirk in Greyfriars.
Me? I want a modern democracy where the failures and errors of govts and public bodies can be effectively scrutinised and improved so the public get better govt, better politicians and better services – a better Scotland.
The people of Scotland are sovereign, not the FM or SNP or Tories or Labour or LibDems or Greens.
The people of Scotland deserve the best, not self-serving politicians or ombudsmen modelled on failed English systems of govt accountability, such as the SPSO.
Do not kid on. The EU know exactly what is going on in the UK re Brexit. Down to the letter. They know how justice and fairness is being relegated and corroded with false promises and lies. Especially about the EU institutions and practices. They will not stand for it, ever.
They support the will of the people all over the EU (world) in European member matters.(Not internal matters) as per the Treaty conventions, declaration and signature. Including Catalonia/Spain, Greece The will of the majority of the electorate. How and why they voted? The reasoning and the outcome. Consummate politicians of great talent, character and ability. Elected caring representative. Civil and human rights. Upheld and respected. Good social and economic policies. .
To stop war and starvation in Europe. Just as relevant today, as over 70’years ago. 11WW. Or a century ago 1WW. Or Illegal wars. Bombing the Middle East to bits for years based on a pack of lies. Lying dodgy dossiers. Derniers. . Causing the worst immigration crisis. Starvation and death at great cost to Europe. Caused by UK/US (France) historical illegal policies. Carving up the Middle East and denying democracy. Universal Suffrage. One person – one vote With qualification for all citizens.
It is up to the Scottish electorate to vote for it. Political justice will prevail.
@Colin Alexander 9:41
…a rather strange post!
You want Independence to hold the government to account.
Do you not think the democratic process of elections would achieve that in an Independent Scotland?
The present system ensures control is at Westminster. Your statement is therefore nonsense.
First, my long overdue thanks to Nana for her wonderful links service, truly an institution in itself 🙂
This, from one of her recent links, I think is well worth quoting should anyone ask what was the point of the SNP’s Commons walk-out.
From Mandy Rhodes in the Sunday Post, 17/06/2018
———
But what did the walkout achieve?
*** It summarised a dry and complicated constitutional argument in one simple image;
*** It secured an emergency three-hour debate on the Sewel Convention;
*** It boosted the SNP membership by a further 7,000 and counting, and
*** The unfolding debacle prompted the newspaper editor who devised the Vow in 2014 to turn Yes four years later.
Not bad for a few minutes’ work.
———
Not bad indeed, well done the SNP at WM
Shona Robson and the Scottish (SNP) Gov increase the funding if the SNHS in Scotland to mitigate and alleviate the cuts in funding by the Tories. The cuts were mitigated in Scotland by taking from other budget requirements (not so important). Shona and the Scottish (SNP) Gov mitigated the cuts, That is why the Tory cuts did not so severely affect the Healthcare in Scotland. The Health care in the rest of the UK were direly, directly affected. Briggs is an incompetent, inexperienced liar. Can’t count or read a balance sheet. A 3rd rate reject, . The usual Tory outcast.
Throughout the affected years. The SNHS (+social care?) budget increased from £10Billion? to £12.5Billion. ie approx £1/2Billion a year. In line with the Tory irrationally cuts to the NHS budget (UK) and the consequence for the Scotttish budget. Block Grant . Just as well the SNP are up on it. Experts. Talent, ability and expertise. Would not like to see the state of Scotland without the SNP Scottish Gov.
The Tory unionists and other reps do not even understand how the Barnett Formula works and the consequentials, depriving Scotland. They do not even bother to do a bit of research find out. Too ignorant and incompetent. Liars. Too busy Lining their pockets on incompetent and abuse.
Bannockburn route .
link to facebook.com
@Sinky
Barnett is 10% of England spend not the UK. So 10% is about correct as Scotland’s population is around 10% of England’s. It used to be higher and some of the older consequentials may be, it is difficult to find the exact numbers.
So we are not getting more than we should.
Someone needs to keep on top of the lies, like the one about handing powers back to the EU. Not true as we will need to rejoin and these will be negotiated, plus if in the EU we would have an input/veto in any future regulations. We are not going to get this from Westminster, they are going to just make the laws despite what is said in Scotland, that is the poit of their power grab.
Is there a Brexit dividend going to the NHS/ScotGov:
UK Press – No
Scottish Media (including BBC) – Yes
I wonder why the Scottish media comes to a different conclusion, it can’t be to try and shore up the Tories in Scotland can it?
Just a few years ago when Scotland was black hole of desperation the Labour party constantly blamed Westminster and the Tories, before that when Labour were in charge they called their failures recession but the result was the same Scotland ended up badly served by Westminster politicians and their Scottish branches
So the SNP come along and in a few short years transform Scotland into a living breathing on the world map country and the Westminster parties blame the SNP for not being magic enough to fix the problems they admit that each of them caused, and it must be true because they told us they blamed each other for the problems for years so it can’t be the fault of the SNP because in political terms they’ve only been in government 5 minutes
Because of the SNP Scotland has all the stuff we talk about every day that England doesn’t have that we now take for granted (I won’t do the list) and yet there are still people who haven’t got the message yet or think things are worse, now where do they get these ideas
Well they get them from the very people who created all the problems and ripped Scotland off in the first place
Do Scots not remember how bad it was just a few years ago and haven’t they noticed that most of the other countries in Europe have gotten over the banking fraud crash except “The UK” which these rotten Westminster parties are still blaming for problems they caused but are actually benefitting from
So Scotland why don’t you want to try something different from what you had because if the SNP go Scotland will go straight back to the way it was and you just know they’ll blame the SNP for everything for the 5 minutes they were in charge
Re GSA Fire:-
There is a photo in today’s Record which shows the roof of the O2ABC ablaze with the GSA behind apparently not ablaze – or at least with its roof still in place which would suggest the possibility that the fire originated in the O2.
Clootie at 10.06
Well said
Clootie
What fears many potential YES voters is a one-party state for indy-Scotland: that one party being the SNP.
The SNP cheerleaders on here reinforce that narrative over and over again:
It’s the SNP’s way or the highway.
How dare Jim Sillars or anyone else make any criticism of the Scot Govt / SNP. If you do, you will face vicious insults.
If people cannot debate any policy that differs from SNP policy then that’s not democratic debate, it reinforces the negative image that the unionists try to portray, that the indy movement are bully boys.
I try to show that it’s not, that YES campaigners are capable of reasoned debate. That YES supporters are ordinary decent people, not fanatic nutters.
But again, the usual btl bully gang, started by Robert Peffers, shout down any debate or criticism that does not follow the “SNP are perfect” narrative.
I wasn’t even debating the SNP till Robert Peffers made accusations that I’m saying SNP bad.
I made a valid point about the failures of the SPSO. And failures of all devolution govts and all Scottish Parliamentarians of all parties to provide an effective public services ombudsman.
Even in this weeks Sunday Post, Audit Scotland highlight the failures of the Police watchdog to hold Police Scotland to account.
Or is that SNP bad again to mention failures in the accountability?
That should be a concern for SNP supporters too.
Except in Wingsworld where Scotland is already perfect under SNP Scot Govts and any problems are caused by the Tories at WM.
Fantasy.
Just shows how powerful the SNP are they made Theresa May come up with 20 billion to save the Union, but where did Theresa get the 20 billion you ask, well she’s gonnae get it from you she just hasnae told you yet
So you’ve to pay for your own salvation from the party who stole it from you in the first place
I’m no economist but is that not getting your pocket picked for the same thing twice then being told by the thief to be greatful they didnae steal yer watch as well
capella,
I wonder if their border initiative (which will probably amount to sweet fa) would generate as much commerce as a real border? Busy places borders.
I see May has stated ‘it is important that parliament does not overturn the will of the people’
Here of course she means the people of England. The will of the Scottish people she is quite happy to overturn by effectively scrapping the 1997 devolution vote, despite this being almost 75%.
I’m sure the BBC will be putting this question to Ruth Davidson any decade now. Or are Davidson’s interviews similar to May’s, questions vetted and approved in advance with no deviation, it certainly looks like it.
Best to just stay in the Union then and keep the Tories or Labour because after independence the SNP will be Baad, maybe or possibly so you don’t want to vote for them or ….exactly what are you saying, the SNP might be the government and you personally don’t like them, but Independence is good if we only don’t vote for the SNP but freedom to vote for anybody else just not them
Is that what you’re saying Colin because that’s what’s on offer you can vote for whoever you like
My choice would be the party who got us Independence and who has demonstrated the competence to carry that through
If you want to vote Tory after Independence who knows maybe they’ll do well and that’s the point isn’t it
Choice
@Colin Alexander says: 18 June, 2018 at 9:41 am:
“I want independence so Scottish govts can be held accountable to the public.”
You get more ridiculous by the day, Colin.
There is at present a fine Scottish government that is held accountable by the people of Scotland.
It sits in a fine Scottish Parliament that is built in our Scottish fine Scottish Capital city of Edinburgh. Contrary to popular belief that it is built with English taxpayer’s money, it isn’t. it is built entirely out of the, rather measly, grant that the Westminster de facto parliament of the country of England thinks is an over generous return of only a small part of Scotland’s wealth.
Scottish wealth that is derived from Scottish resources and produced by Scotland’s peoples that The Westminster de facto parliament decided was all we were worth. However every penny spent on Holyrood came from the Scottish Block Grant. The Scottish Parliament is fully accountable to the people of Scotland who vote in the current SNP incumbents as the Government of Scotland. What’s more, if they are daft enough, the peoples of Scotland, note I say, “peoples”, because we are a diverse nation and welcome newcomers, can vote the SNP out at the next election if they so please.
” … You can have your Robert the Bruce Scotland where any dissent is silenced by a dirk in Greyfriars.”
We do not have a Robert the Bruce Scotland, Colin, That Scotland died in 1329 along with King Robert. Had yiu not noticed he was dead lang syne?
“Me? I want a modern democracy where the failures and errors of govts and public bodies can be effectively scrutinised and improved so the public get better govt, better politicians and better services – a better Scotland.”
So just what is it about Holyrood that doesn’t fit the description of a fully modern parliament that is accountable to the people of Scotland, Colin?
Oh! Wait!
Could it be that you personally don’t like, (the freely elected by the peoples of Scotland), unionist MSPs chosen by
the legally sovereign peoples of Scotland?
You most certainly propagate that impression here on Wings for your main theme and constant attacks are usually aimed directly at the freely elected FM and MSP’s who sit in the very modern settings of the Holyrood Parliament of Scotland.
The ONLY problem at Holyrood is that far too many of the, (freely elected by the peoples of Scotland), MSPs who own their loyalties to the Westminster Establishment.
Which Establishment is the de facto parliament of the peoples of the country of England.
The strange fact is that your attacks are not directed at the MSPs but aimed at the FM, SNP who are currently freely elected by the peoples of Scotland.
Them’s the facts, Colin. Scotland is overruled by the Westminster Establishment and their minions, (freely elected by the peoples of Scotland), and you freely choose to constantly NOT attack either the Westminster de facto parliament of England or their minions elected to the Scottish parliament but instead you consistently attack the FM, SG and SNP at Holyrood and you have the temerity to claim I’m the ole living in the past.
Just remember, Colin, that the Unionist MSPs in Holyrood are also freely elected by those legally sovereign peoples of Scotland and THAT is the problem and THAT is the only problem.
It cannot be solved by either Holyrood or Westminster because the MSPs are freely accountable at the ballot box to the legally sovereign peoples of Scotland and the only way to get a fully free Holyrood is to elect only those MSPs who are NOT Westminster controlled by the peoples of England.
So you claim to be an indy supporter but consistently attack the FM, SG and SNP. Rather strange behaviour for a person who claims they support independence.
Colin Alexander at 10.48
“Even in this weeks Sunday Post……” You are having a joke,aren’t you?
Colin
Would that be the one party state like we have in Scotland at present, you know where SNP is actually a minority leader.
Oh wait, do you see a FPTP voting set up in a new Scotland?
The BBC has become worryingly *close* to being an arm of the government says former chairman of the BBC
Close?
Too many people are saying words like Scottish or Scotland and it’s got to stop this is a political blog about Scottish politics, Damn! now I’m saying those words and I should be more sensitive to the folk who don’t want to mention Scotland, Ooops! need a swear box for every time we say something about Scotland, hells teeth! I’m going to go broke if I have to keep putting money into the Scottish swear box
Clink Clink Clink *Scotland* there’s another clink for good measure
Hopefully a new thread appears soon. This one’s getting stale btl. Some mouldy old patter not fit for consumption has spoiled it as usual.
Come on Rev…gies a new loaf eh? 🙂
Completely O/T.
As all Wingers know, the wide world of State Propaganda in the UK is a major weapon in the hands of the Westminster Government and is deployed on a constant basis. In other words, Government Propaganda is never switched off, with the result that the brainwashing of the population never stops and every day is a brainwashing day.
But propaganda contains an interesting twist in that while we are aware of what we see and hear on TV and in newspapers, what is harder to spot are the stories that are being held back and the subjects and issues which are never or very rarely spoken about.
In an effort to increase the public’s awareness of the Government’s hidden agenda, I am proposing that a list be compiled, to which anyone can add, of the things that the State doesn’t want us to know, think or talk about. A clue to what this might be lies in the answer to the question ‘what does the Prime Minister, Theresa May, never, or very rarely, talk about?
So starting today, let’s begin to make a list for the public domain of the things Theresa May wants kept out of the national conversation. I’ll begin with a few examples :-
1. Scotland’s Oil
2. The Establishment
3. Paedophilia in politics
4. Untaxed UK wealth in offshore tax-havens
5. Britain’s rigged Democracy
6. Lying in politics
Over to you….
A few points:-
Comments above raised the question of who paid for the Holyrood parliament building. – who paid for the Stormont parliament building when Ireland was partitioned?
In retrospect many acts perpetrated by governments seem totally inappropriate or ridiculous For starters – Dewar’s Statue and The State Funeral for Thatcher.
Where is Ruth Davidson?
Can May be made to elaborate on and define just what The Brexit Dividend is?
@ cearc – I think it is a deeply cynical ploy to dangle a carrot towards people in the Borders, who don’t get STV but rely on ITV from England or the BBC (cough), to support the Union. If they don’t vote “no thanks” then the funding will disappear.
Also, as Ken500 says, Mundell is buying votes.
I see Rory Stewart has been made Minister for Africa. Soon he will become Minister for the Rest of the World.
But he is right about fabricated borders i.e. those which the UK created in India, Mesopotamia, Palestine and Ireland. Those certainly created a lot of violent division which lasts to this day. Perhaps the Tories should spend time rectifying the mess they made in those countries.
@Colin Alexander
Doh! You only win elections if you are the popular choice. You only achieve popularity if you deliver what the voters want.
As a troll you are pretty thick!
At present we vote SNP in the General Election and get right wing Tories. It may have escaped your attention but an Independent Holyrood would retain PR unlike your beloved Union.
As a newspaper addict over many years and totally scunnered with what passes for media coverage of the current political scenario in present day Scotland I decided to live dangerously and bought a Sunday Telegraph yesterday. I was not so naive as to expect a sympathetic take on politics but, apart from a report on the Art School fire, the only reference that I could find to Scotland was in the weather forecast.
Who buys this supposedly influential publication and why?
Usual outpouring of knee-jerk sanctimonious shite about GSA.
What is missing from the discussion – same as three years ago – is the unfortunate fact that the MacKintosh building has always been well-nigh invisible to most Glasgwegians let alone tourists. People don’t go up that hill unless they have good reason, and even if you do want to see the building, you can’t stand ‘back’ any further than the width of road/pavement. Every spare inch of Garnethill has been packed with glass annexes to existing schools/tenements. It’s a mess. The only residents of Glasgow who have ever had a proper view of the GSA ‘Mac’ are the fuckin seagulls.
Rebuild it, aye, but FFS do it in a place where people can actually see it.
No comments so far on the fact that May’s interview on Marr yesterday was pre-recorded – plenty time for The BBC to edit out her non answers and usual evasion and to make her look vaguely human, credible and reasonable to the gullible masses.
@Ian Brotherhood 12.20pm
Absolutely agree what’s the point of iconic architecture that we can boast about being invisible to the folk we want to see it
Anyone else untangling this with more success?
The PM’s announcement of £20billion new money for the NHS in England seems to raise some ‘interesting’ issues, especially if as is being indicated, it will in part at least be paid for by increasing tax. But which tax will be used to raise the money?
Typically, any increase in funding for NHS England is accompanied by a consequential increase in funding – a Barnett Consequential – for the devolved administrations which can in turn, should they wish, increase the funding the various devolved administrations give to their NHS.
But if the Westminster government presents a rise in income tax (specifically PAYE) as its method of financing all or part of the increased funding for NHS England, then that increase in PAYE will only apply to tax payers in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Scotland’s PAYE system is now determined by the Scottish Government, other than the basic allowance.
So how does the Tory government justify to (say) England residents the raising of their income tax to increase the budget for an activity, the health service, that attracts a consequential payment to Scotland but which Scottish tax payers have made no directly comparable tax contribution?
Does the fiscal framework established following the last Scotland Act have the means to negate any consequential payment which would otherwise be due under such circumstances – in other words, a discounting mechanism under which Scotland will in effect get no net benefit from the £20bn announcement if it is financed via an increase in PAYE for residents of England. Wales and NI?
If not, does this open up the prospect of ‘hypothecation’ as a way for the Westminster government to circumvent such a politically difficult (outside Scotland) Barnett issue but without actually contravening Barnett? Or will the Westminster government be forced to opt for a means of taxation which is applied UK-wide rather than use PAYE and then apply Barnett as normal? If the latter, then the current Scotland Act has now become a constraint on Westminster’s fiscal options in the rUK!
Or am I missing something?
Speculation that the Mac’s walls might have to come down & while they have to be safe for the workies we have no shortage of buildings in Scotland which were gutted by fire & are still standing. The newly built Ruthven Barracks & the centuries-old Linlithgow Palace were both burned in the ’45 but still standing last time I looked!
I note that in among all the pish about troll and unionist none have a word of defence to say about the SPSO as ombudsman of public services from Scottish Govt, Scottish NHS to Scottish Councils and Scottish Water.
Fact: it was Labour that brought it in via the Scottish Parliament. It’s mode of operation is a based on an English model of failed ombudsman.
Fact: The SNP have been in power most of the time since, either in majority or minority but have done NOTHING to make the ombudsman do a proper job. Neither have the unionist and Green opposition.
If saying that makes me a unionist, tell that to Dennis Canavan and Alex Neil MSP, who are also critical of the SPSO.
For anyone that wants the truth instead of propaganda: link to accountabilityscotland.org
———————————————————————————————-
Democracy does help to make governments more accountable, in that it’s possible for them to be voted out.
However, in individual abuses or malpractice we need an effective ombudsman to protect individuals rights.
That’s an issue for all of us whether unionist or independist or no interested in politics.
It’s about protecting basic rights of people.
@stewartb 12.35pm
They could put up NI which was one of the original ways that tax was supposed to be used or they go straight for the good old drink and fags taxes (for the sake of our health) but they’ll likely stay away from taxing their own insanely rich folk, after all they’re probably all private anyway
I kinda doubt they’ll use income tax because as you suggest the Scottish government wouldn’t be obliged to follow and that would create a huge stushy down south with folk complaining all over the place
Bet they wish they hadn’t devolved income tax now eh
I’ve always had a soft spot for the GSA as the sign always looked as if it said:
Glasgow School o Fart.
Mibbie Charles Rennie Mackintosh had a sense of humour.
Teresa May seems to forget that she was a Remainer who stated that there was no dividend in Brexit.
So what happened now that she says their is?
I’ll go for she is on her way out after yet again being proved to be a disaster in motion. Nothing like a Whopping Tory Lie to win English votes.
There will be money saved in not paying for EU Membership, but when all the trade tariffs are applied exports and imports and the job losses are added up the only new money for the NHS will need to come from the pockets of the working classes, well those dwindling numbers that manage to retain their job.
On the MacKintosh Art School, I say again it must be rebuild exactly other than the support infrastructure such as heating,
lighting, Fire Sprinklers, and Fibre Optic Communications.
The destroyed buildings beneath it on Sauchiehall St must be acquired and become of the Tourist and Culture Centre for Scottish Architecture.
We not only have CRM but his tutor, Alexander Greek Thomson, John James Burnet, William Adam, Thomas Telford, Archibald Leitch, James Gibbs, Basil Spence, etc.
We should be very proud of our Architects and boast about them loudly.
…if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck….it is a duck!
Re the Glasgow School of Art.
The so called experts are saying it will cost £100m to rebuild it. There should be no public money going into this. They have already had public money to rebuild after the first fire.
If the arty farty lot want to rebuild let them raise the £100m. As someone said earlier this building means little to most people.
They have had their share of public funding its time to invest in something elso for the public purse ie Teachers pay etc
When the Mac was built it was as a working art school, nobody envisaged that it would be some kind of architectural jewel & place of pilgrimage a century later. A disillusioned Mackintosh went sadly out of fashion shortly after its construction & the Glasgow Style, which influenced everything from schools to tenement closes, was taken for granted or pulled doon.
The Mac wasn’t built to be viewed in a park, it was the very constrictions of the hillside site which Mackintosh’s genius solved with the Mac.
gus1940 says:
Indeed. That’s one thing no one could ever accuse the BBC of …. not doing the job for which it was created and is maintained ie promoting, protecting, and sanitising the ‘British’ state.
Disneyland makes billions from tourists wanting to see castles and cartoon characters
Jurassic park movies make billions from peoples love of looking at dinosaurs, tourists don’t really care whether the castles or dinosaurs are original or real they just want fotys
Why can’t Scotland have MacIntosh land for tourists and still have it as a working Art school but in nice surroundings, and the students would be happy as well
I’m being flippant but why not, tourists love exploitation it’s why they go places with cameras
O/T.
May’s promise of £20 billion for NHS by 2030 ? will May be in power then. Remember no other elected government is bound by their predecessors promises May offering Carluke Steak today & tomorrow & to 2030, she doesen’t know there.s no Jam factories in Carluke .
@Stewartb
Holyrood control of income tax will become part of the Tory Power Grab. They will use the situation you outline to highlight the problem and the need then for taking income tax (along with loads of other stuff) back under WM control. Mibbees.
The possibility of the GSA fire as “insurance job” seems to be gaining ground – in which case I would think it would be the ABC which was the target – the art school just “collateral damage” (- though it was reported that the fire spread TO the ABC). So, two stupid and technically incompetent criminals are to blame for this cultural vandalism – (maybe)
“Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by simple incompetence” (or even malicious incompetence or incompetent malice)
Philistinism is really soul crushing – like reading about art thieves who on blagging an old master, sell the frame and use the painting itself for cat litter lining.
Just looking at the pictures – GSA is totally gutted, the ABC auditorium is completely collapsed, but the rest of it is intact.
The art school is higher than the ABC – with stuff overhanging – so the fire could have been spotted there first even if it started in the ABC – the ABC auditorium is more enclosed, hidden from external viewing. Flames could have easily spread to the GSA, then burned more quickly due to the internal situation.
There was a strange note to all of this – as soon as the fire hit, the BBC put out a story on the frontpage about “TINDERBOX Glasgow” … ? WTF or rather WHY-THE-FUCK … it’s almost like it’s there to stop people asking questions cuz ye know … Glesga it’s a tinderbox, the beeb said it – but if you READ THE ARTICLE – it’s all about notorious destructive fires which happened 40 years ago. Very odd – to put that out, at that time.
There is another strange vibe coming out as well – “oh well, it was an old building, no modern fire standards … maybe its time to make something new … it will cost a lot iy money to rebuild or restore … looks like it can’t be saved – better demolish it … foodbanks … er, starving children … ebola … F-35s and aircraft carriers – ignore that last one … ”
– and what would you get instead – looked at Glasgow lately – its a corporate shitehole – starting to look like “any other place in the world” – it’s already lost or abused too many fine buildings (e.g. greek thomson)
CRM was unique, international in his outlook and very much nothing to do with that-london or england – his work is worth a place in the world.
Re possible tax increases and the Brexit Dividend lie surely removing the Upper Limit on NI contributions would raise a not insubstantial amount as well as depriving the Fat Cats of some of their obscene ‘earnings’.
Just a thought.
Most on here are pro independence (shocker) We debate and talk of independence because that’s what we all want.
We see the press falsehoods torn apart.
What if we are finding it hard to do the same in real life without the facts to hand?
Scotland is subsidised, snhs is crap, crime etc etc, You know the drill.
What is some well versed or prominent anti independence bloggers or posters were invited on here to debate?
So we could learn what their points were, but more importantly watch and learn how to handle the debate better ourselves?
UK supporter posts figures they believe , their sources or accuracy are checked and other figures are shown to counter them. Maybe it is possible to see a working real life change of min front of us?
Could be useful? Maybe.
Just a thought.
Colin Alexander says: 18 June, 2018 at 10:48 am:
“What fears many potential YES voters is a one-party state for indy-Scotland: that one party being the SNP.
The SNP cheerleaders on here reinforce that narrative over and over again:”
Absolute pish! I don’t know of a single SNP supporting Winger that has ever advocated a one party dictatorship.
More absolute pish! Most, if not all SNP members are also members or supporters of their local Yes or AUOB groups.
“It’s the SNP’s way or the highway.
How dare Jim Sillars or anyone else make any criticism of the Scot Govt / SNP. If you do, you will face vicious insults.”
Even more utter pish! The fact is plain that there is only one way to gain independence and it sure as hell is not the way of the loony left in Scotland who cannot even get a single MP or MSP elected to office – and for good reason. That one way is by the process of the legally sovereign people of Scotland returning a majority of independence supporting MEPs, MPs and MSPs to office and giving them a clear mandate to end the United Kingdom under the terms laid down in the Treaty of Union. This is called democracy and exercising the legally sovereign people’s right to assert their legal sovereignty.
This can only be achieved by the election of supporters of Scottish independence.
“If people cannot debate any policy that differs from SNP policy then that’s not democratic debate”.
Correct, Colin, but who is stopping you and your cohorts from debating it? The answer is no one is but here you are attempting to bully anyone that disagrees with you to stop debating it and accepting your anti-democracy views.
” … it reinforces the negative image that the unionists try to portray, that the indy movement are bully boys.”
They may be right for here you are attempting to bully people into not expressing their legitimate views here on Wings. Are you really attempting to justify your incessant attacks upon the FM, SG and SNP? Your record of incessant attacks upon them is seen right here on this very thread. You have made no valid criticisms of the unionists or the far left loonies here on Wings but hardly a day passes without your incessant attacks upon the only political movements that could ever gain independence for Scotland. Right here on this thread you make a full blown attack upon the SNP/SG for policies brought in by the London Labour party controlled MSPs while in power at Holyrood and, only as an afterthought, do you then mention that Labour brought these policies in.
“I try to show that it’s not, that YES campaigners are capable of reasoned debate. That YES supporters are ordinary decent people, not fanatic nutters.”
And they are not nutters, Colin, but you are. You incessantly attack the FM. SG and SNP and even Wingers who point out your anti-independence views. You claim that you and your cohorts are being bullies and prevented from debating but here you are and no one is suppressing your right to comment. Pointing out the truth that your primary objective is to rubbish the FM, SG and SNP and you are quite obviously a Jim Sillars supporter and he too has become anti-SNP in everything he does.
” … But again, the usual btl bully gang, started by Robert Peffers, shout down any debate or criticism that does not follow the “SNP are perfect” narrative.”
Bullshit. No one has ever claimed the SNP are perfect, least of all me. What I am well reported to have said is that if anyone wants to complain about the SNP, or anyone representing them, has ample ways of doing so both on and off line. It is doing the unionist’s job for them to spout your incessant anti-FM, SG and SNP complains here on an open forum when you are fully aware the yoonatics are avid followers.
The SNP as both a party and a government are open to complaint and criticisms both on and off line and I have posted cites to where you can contact them as individuals as a party and as a government. Good grief many of them including the FM herself are active on twitter. You lot of covert unionists are here on Wings pretending to support independence but never stop openly criticising anything and anyone who actually does support independence. Have you ever contacted the FM with your criticism, Colin?
Here is how you can contact and MSP at Holyrood including the FM herself:-
link to parliament.scot
But that wouldn’t manage to achieve what you are so intent upon doing by adversely criticising her by commenting here on Wings though would it, Colin?
” … I wasn’t even debating the SNP till Robert Peffers made accusations that I’m saying SNP bad.”
Oh! Come on, Colin, most of us aren’t daft.
You ranted on about what you personally class as bad legislation and your main target was the SNP and only as if an afterthought did you mention the legislation was passed before the SNP gained power. Any other person than an anti-SNP person would have stated things the other way round by blaming the previous Labour and unionist coalition and perhaps only THEN, saying, “and the SNP SG have not relealled the legislation.
Not you, though, Colin. You launch it as an full-blown attack upon the SNP SG and only then do you mention it wasn’t SNP policy and not SNP SG legislation. In any case for a lot of the time the SNP had no chance of reversing the legislation because they were a minority government.
So away and stop wasting everyone’s time and patience with your obviously failed self-defence of your false-flag claims of supporting Indy. You are out and out anti-FM, anti-SNP and that equates to anti-independence.
” … I made a valid point about the failures of the SPSO. And failures of all devolution govts and all Scottish Parliamentarians of all parties to provide an effective public services ombudsman.”
Indeed you did Colin but you are now squealing like a stuck pig because in your eagerness to get at the FM. SG and SNP you telegraphed your real motives by mainly blaming them instead of mainly blaming the previous administrations who actually introduced the legislation.
In case you had not noticed the SNP SG were not even able to prevent their own legislation in relation to offensive behaviour at football being repealed – just what chances do you imagine they stood of repealing legislation brought in by the yoonatics?
Yet you claim you are suffering insults but what is insulting in exposing you for what you are and what you are doing?
If you imagine it insulting to say you are talking pish then understand it is no more than stating the truth.
I’ve just seen this useful site.
UNited 4 Yes.
A handy Hub for Scotref/Indy information…”
All under one roof for upcoming events. 🙂
link to united4yes.org
Robert Peffers as the Rev say’s don’t give the Yoons oxygen to spout their pish .
Robert Peffers 1.46
Well said, as things stand just now the SNP are the party who will carry us forward to Independence, what do these nae-sayers want… Independence supporters to vote Labour, Liberal or Tory and expect them to suddenly support Indy. After Indy and only when Indy is delivered it will be time to take stock of other political ways or parties.
Rebuild GSA?
Hmmmm… Think Glasgow School of Art vs Duncan of Jordanson Matthew Building.
If you need an art College that definitely won’t burn down, ever, and would probably even survive a nuclear holocaust virtually undamaged, them Dundee has a lot going for it. If however you want inspire creative artists and designers, fire them up early and give them a lifelong source of original inspiration, then yes, as a Nation, we very much must rebuild the GSA.
Furthermore, it wasn’t built for tourists or visitors, it belongs to the Glagow students whom it was built for. Nevermind money, most of them would probably donate a limb or vital organ to get their beloved GSA rebuilt. I never went to Glasgow, been all over Scotland but not Glasgow, yet I still have a tremendous affinity for the GSA. Architecture, and I mean the real-deal original, outside-the-box Iconic thinking like the GSA is globally important and significant, and Scotland has / had an absolute gem amongst and awful lot of very dull and ordinary pebbles.
If we can rebuild it, then it’s both our duty and our challenge to do it. If you think the GSA looks rather ordinary then first, you’re not looking hard enough, and second, so much design in the last century has taken its inspiration from Mackintosh that it probably is easy to see it as familiar and commonplace, but the GSA ranks right up there with the very, very, best of what extraordinarily gifted people can do.
@Robert Peffers 1:46pm
Well said, Robert. Anyone who says they are worried about a one-party SNP state in an independent Scotland is either very stupid or very No.
Many people in England now understanding that Brexit is a bad idea and want it cancelled but the Westminster government claims it *can’t* do that because it’s carrying out the sovereign will of the people so somebody correct me if I’m wrong but my understanding is the People of England are not in fact sovereign as their sovereignty was ceded to their own English parliament by their own crown, so the Westminster parliament can overule the people of England should they so wish
Again I may be not 100% accurate on this but I understand the only people in the British Isles who actually are sovereign are the Scots because our ancestors put those measures in place meaning it’s really only Scotlands vote that should count
OK maybe that’s a stretch but governments of all countries reverse or change decisions all the time, after all the Tories Brexit promise is like saying jump into this dark hole that you can’t see the bottom of but I promise it’s not deep and you won’t die…. honest
Teresa may is a political genius?
Wait. WTF?!
Hey its a theory!
She never wanted to leave, she campaigned for remain didn’t she?
She is making an arse of negotiations. Intransigent, incompetent as her appointed negotiators are.
She appointed Boris as foreign secretary ffs!!
Here’s the plan.
Don’t cooperate. check.
Look like we will get no deal. Check.
Look like we don’t know what we are doing, Check
Let the public see what financial effects will be. In progress.
Public will demand a second referendum and vote to remain.
Job done! Genius.
Or they haven’t a clue what they are doing…….
@Dr Jim says:18 June, 2018 at 11:26 am
The BBC has become worryingly *close* to being an arm of the government says former chairman of the BBC
Close?
BBC (news and related media) has always been the voice of the establishment but now it has been taken over by one extremist arm of the establishment – guys like Nick Robinson, Laura Kuenssberg, Andrew Neil and so on. Extremist as they are and arrogant they no longer make much attempt to disguise their bias and often mere propaganda output.
Colin Alexander 12.54
Maybe you are the big smelly fart that is stinking out this forum.
Alba 46 at 1.04
Another arse appears.
gus1940 at 11.58
Just for the record the Holyrood parliament cost less than the new extended office block at Westminster built around the same time.
The actual cost of the Holyrood Parliament was in building terms for what it was was fairly modest.
Its just if you say “millions” in any context to the dafties their eyes cloud over and they feel like fainting.
Re Dave McEwan Hill @ 2:48
Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. Just because mine doesn’t agree with yours does not make mine any less valid.
Don’t be so bloody insular. Respect that other people have a right to a view even if it differs from you.
Get off your high horse you are not the font of all knowledge
Labour life peer Lordy Sewel has pronounced.
Best give up then 🙂
link to bbc.co.uk
It was unique so the answer is quite simple, just REBUILD it irrespective of the cost. A typhoon jet is nearly the same price.
It’s not as if it’s a foosty old church as they are ten a penny with one on every corner or that concrete carbuncle like the parliament building.
defo says:
18 June, 2018 at 3:18 pm
Labour life peer Lordy Sewel has pronounced.
Best give up then ?
Well, he would say that, wouldn’t he?
Well well well, Britnat lord Sewer says it’s not a constitutional crisis. That means it most definitely is! Holyrood must keep fighting the Britnat establishment. For all our sakes.
Silly old duffer Lord Sewel says “the convention has worked well up till now”
In that sentence alone he admits it now “isn’t” working but just gonnae no make a fuss about it Scotland and leave England in charge, and presents no other reason than just gonnae
*Normally* we wouldn’t make a fuss
If anyone has a different opinion on Wings they are met with abuse and branded a unionist or troll.
And it’s the usual crew who do it, over and over again.
Come back Heedy, at least you were amusing when making false accusations about people being unionists.
Colin Alexander @ 12:54:
It must remind you of wherever you got your pseudo-indy education.
Well O/T but harmless and mildly amusing…
cearc reported proudly that her puya berteroniana is producing a flower spike.
Not being a puya expert I googled p. berteroniana and saw an entry headed “flowers once in 100 years and then dies”. So I posted a comment about when cearc planted it and was she 120 years old?
Well, cearc tells me her p. B. is NOT a 100 year only type, so I went back to Google. Doh. The false entry was, OF COURSE, from a Daily Fail piece!!
@Sarah at 3.56 p.m.
My post wasn’t O/T at all, of course – this thread is all about lies in the press…
Colin Alexander @ 15:41,
Wrong. (Typically inverted, and all about you.)
As anyone can observe for themselves, we are most delighted to debate any indy-related issue, and all we ask is that it be conducted on an honest and open basis, a courtesy many of us offered to you when you first showed up. A courtesy that has been repeatedly abused by you in a whirlwind of mutually-contradictory opinions, whose only constant core is an invariable SNPbaaad.
So yes, we now have the utmost contempt for you and your sleekit ways. But it’s just you. Got that now?
Sewell who ruined the Aberdeen local economy. Overspent over rated Norco building Bon accord centre overpriced empty shops. Spending public money there was no tomorrow getting the Council into £Millions of debt. The Labour/unionists Mafia responsible for keeping the McCrone Rrport secret. Making sure all the Oil revenues went south to build up London S/E. So the Lablour/unionist Mafia could line their pockets. While the NE was deprived of essential roads, affordable houses and other essential amenities. Blocked the by pass road for forty years. With traffic chaos. The Oil capital the only City in Europe without a by pass road. Until the SNP Gov Alex Salmond finally got it built to help the expand the local and Scottish economy. Growth.
Sewell that skeekit bastard made sure Scotland was left in poverty. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Costing Scotland £Billion, the grids mismanagement of the Oil & Gas sector, the fishing and farming sector. The appalling damage done to the economy by Westminster management because if the limit powers of the Sewell shreement. Troughing it like there is no tomorrow.
Re lord Sewels utterances.
Sewel as part of the westminster establishment wrote the convention. He now states that no-one could have foreseen Brexit and all the trouble its causing. So they are just going to rip up what was agreed 20 years ago and start again regardless of what the Scottish parliament thinks.
What an indictment of democracy. If anything crystallizes this corrupt, arrogant, ignorant bullying government this is it
The Sewell Agreement limited Scottish powers so Westminster unionists could still control and deprive the Scottish economy. Taking £Billions to build up London S/E. (pronrara) Ruining the Oil & Gas, (too high taxes 40%) fishing (larger nets) and farming industry (deprived of £Millions of CAP payments. Depriving Scotland of higher production and more jobs and growth. Westminster Barnett Formula deception.
Westminster debate today – The Sewel Convention emergency debate supposedly at 3.30pm, hasn’t happened yet. Lots of trivia but Scots are watching and waiting.
link to assets.publishing.service.gov.uk
§
l
§
§
§
SUMMARY
The Government announced on 21 July 1998:
“we would expect a convention to be established that Westminster wou d not normally
legislate with regard to devolved matters in Scotland without the consent of the Scottish
Parliament.”
This is now stated in the Memorandum of Understanding with the Devolved Administrations.
A Memorandum of Understanding is the closest you’ll get to a treaty between Holyrood and Westminster.
The good bit is,
19. The Scottish Executive can be expected to deal swiftly with issues which arise during the
passage of a Bill, and to recognise the exigencies of legislative timetables (eg when forced to
consider accepting amendments at short notice). Nevertheless since the last opportunity for
amendment is at Third Reading in the Lords or Report Stage in the Commons the absence of
consent should not be a bar to proceeding with the Bill in the interim.
As in Westminster can legislate without consent rather than wait for consent.
There’s 4 pages of what is supposed to happen.
None of it says that Westminster can “make law” without the consent of Holyrood.
Furthermore if you read the Scotland Act Holyrood can chance it’s arm at making laws concerning reserved matters. If Westminster fail to intervene or have their objections rejected by the Supreme Court then it becomes law regardless of there being a S30 order. In fact the S30 only serves to bar such an intervention.
So when it comes to indyref2 Holyrood could simply go ahead and hold the referendum to find the sovereign will of the scottish people. Then they pass the bill to declare independence at which point case law says the Supreme Court will find in Scotlands favour if Westminster is foolish enough to contest the issue.
I thought the UK government were going to reduce the threshold for higher rate tax payers to buy the ENHS more time. Remember – the threshold that George Osborne increased and Nicola Sturgeon refused to increase to howls of rage?
Also, isn’t the promised £2 bilion Barnett consequential about half of the reduction in the Scottish budget since the Tories took office? They are just returning half of the money they have already stolen.
Jack Murphy says: 18 June, 2018 at 2:02 pm
————————————–
I’ve just seen this useful site.
United 4 Yes. A handy Hub for Scotref/Indy information…”
All under one roof for upcoming events. ?
link to united4yes.org
————————————–
It’s an inspiration to see how much is actually going on across the country, so many active pro-indy groups.
Well it took a lot of persuasion, but finally convinced big sis who was a hard no voter(explained the tory power grab to her). And she was so surprised that at 65 i took out out snp membership after the walkout. She said, if you can do it in england, i’m bliddy well dae’in it in Scotland. The blinkers are surely coming off for lots of Scots now.
Is the Sewell debate still going to happen ?
Nearly 6 and Tories still talking shite about the Brexit divvy..
Stewartb, found this on SNP’s twitter feed…it’s Fraser of Allander report but does dive into the subject of how this 20Billion may play out re Barnett Consequentials…worth a wee read I’d say…also for the comment underneath from HIstorywoman in response to a Yesser pointing out ‘…Westminster can save themselves 2 Billion by doing it via an income tax rise…’…lol
link to twitter.com
K1 : I did wonder about the Barnett implications if Westminster did raise the extra from taxes alone.
How would that impact us ?
Orri,
The Scottish Government does not need a section 30 order to hold a referendum. That is just nonsense spread by unionists and their media. It is NOT ‘permission’, as they say. Salmond decided to proceed down that road first time, since it set in place the respective roles of campaign groups, and the right of the Scotgov to legislate on the matter if a YES result comes in – AND that Westminster will respect the result.
However, the notion of Westminster accepting a result, becomes an irrelevance where a result comes in, because from that day forward, the whole world knows that Scotland has chosen to become independent, so the only alternative for Westminster is to literally forcibly prevent Scotland becoming independent against its wishes. i.e troops on the streets.
If you then think that through, it only leads Scotland to hate Westminster further, with even greater support for independence. It becomes an unstoppable process. Holding a country in a bilateral treaty against its wishes? No I don’t think so. Completely untenable.
Further, unionists argue that a referendum on independence is outside the competence of the Scots Parliament, since the constitution is outside Holyrood control, i.e a reserved matter. Again, that is tosh. Yes, the constitution is reserved, but holding referenda is NOT.
Let me explain why, foreign policy is currently reserved, yet nobody in their right mind would propose banning the Scottish Government holding a referendum asking people what they think of a foreign policy. The same can be said for other reserved matters. So, it is clearly nonsense to try to argue that of all the reserved powers, just one, the constitution may never be raised in a referendum. It is patently stupid.
You see, all a referendum does is ask the opinion of the public on a question. It is a large democratic opinion poll, with a very large sample number. That is not in any way impinging upon reserved powers. For the Scots parliament to be interfering in the constitution as a reserved power, they would have to legislate to alter or amend the constitution.
People then say, ah, yes, but if Scotgov hold a referendum on independence without the consent of Westminster, it would only be an advisory referendum, but in reality, that is all ANY referendum is. Westminster themselves admitted that the brexit referendum was only advisory.
Too many indy supporters keep falling for this section 30 or consent nonsense. It really is nonsense. The paid liars at the BBC think it is great, and re-state it all the time, as though it is hard fact, but it really, really isn’t.
I’m sure we’re all glad a man of Lord Sewel’s gravitas, probity and rectitude has expatiated so sagely on the constitutional crisis.
Is it THIS Lord Sewel but?
link to archive.is
Ah ‘Lord 2 Hookers and a Coke Sewel’ it is Tinto! 🙂
Scotland’s national TV news reduced to 5 mins in order to endure extended 45 mins build up for a foreign football team
Referendums should be the best of three – buyer’s remorse means votes based on emotion are often immediately regretted. People may wonder if they made the right decision especially if the result is close.
A second referendum, if the result is the same but more definitive, should put the issue to bed. If the second one is the opposite result, then go to a third. By then all the issues should be discussed to death and the public truly scunnered and never want to visit it again.
Well this line in that report addresses this aspect haudonthenoo:
‘…if the increase in spending is funded in part through an increase in rates of reserved taxes (such as an increase in National Insurance Contributions, or a cancellation of planned Corporation Tax cuts) then the Scottish budget would also benefit from the consequential in full.
However, if an increase in spending on the NHS in England is partially funded by an increase in the rate of tax for a tax that has been devolved to Scotland, then things get slightly complicated.
Further:
‘Imagine for example that an increase in spending on the NHS in England is part-funded by an increase of 1p in the basic rate of income tax. The additional revenues raised by the UK Government would result in an increase in the Scottish Government’s ‘Block Grant Adjustment’ – the sum that is deducted from the block grant to reflect the revenues that the UK Government has foregone as a result of transferring income tax to Scotland.
In this hypothetical case, although the Scottish block grant would get the same Barnett consequential from the UK Government’s decision to increase spending on the NHS, the fact that this was being partially paid for by a tax increase that did not apply in Scotland would result in a higher block grant adjustment.
The effect of this, broadly, is to reduce the increase in the Scottish consequentials by the extent to which the increase in spending on the NHS in England has been funded by income tax changes that do not apply to Scotland. It would then be up to the Scottish Government whether or not to ‘follow’ the rUK tax increase. In effect of course, the Scottish Government has already partially increased the basic rate of income tax in Scotland. How would it respond to an increase in the rUK rate?’
So in answer to your query it would in fact reduce our consequential. This all depends very much on how this 20B is funded from their side. Be interesting to see how they (UK) spin this one.
” Are you supporting England ”
seems like the BBC are asking every Scot they come across,
feels a bit like the “it`s nearly November where`s your Poppy” thing.
No I am not supporting England jeez fricken O,
why ?
2000 years of fricken aggression,
why can`t England just do their own thing and leave us a fricken lone.
before the` blood and soil` bores start up,
all foreigners are welcome to come and stay in Scotland,
`Non Solum C#nts`,
OFF-TOPIC
FFS – less than one minute into the build-up to England’s first game in this competition and already I am totally pissed-off with the BBC.
COME ON – ANYONE BUT ENGLAND.
Stephen Kerr MP saying he is being targeted by Nationalist bullies inside and outside the House. Has brought it up with the Speaker!
K1 :thanks for that. I did indeed think it might be complex and possibly a case for future “disagreements”.
auld highlander at 3.25
Exactly
Thanks for confirming my hunch, K1.
Personally, I think he missed his vocation. He would obviously have been a great Minister for Energy 😛
We need politicians we can look up to even more in these difficult times…..
Well,that’s twelve new members in our wee SNP branch already.
“it would only be an advisory referendum, but in reality, that is all ANY referendum is.”
Not if the People of Scotland are sovereign.
And the EU referendum may have been advisory in England, but certainly wasn’t in Scotland, so Scotland can’t legally have Brexit imposed against the people’s sovereign will.
The topic is IPSO, a regulator, no independence or the SNP.
I pointed out the SPSO in Scotland is just as bad or worse than IPSO.
The SPSO acts as an ombudsman for “maladministration” but it has no definition for that.
So, like the Union, it can move the goalposts any way it wants to.
And like Scotland in the Union, Joe Bloggs has no redress against abuses of power by the SPSO – except by going to the Court of Session for judicial review.
How many can afford to do that?
That’s the reality of “justice” across the UK, as Scotland’s devolved system continues to be based on England’s failed system, despite 20 years of devolution.
Robert J. Sutherland
Found any WINGS quotes where I promote a federal UK?
I accept I did discuss the merits of UDI, though it’s no really UDI, as Scotland is in a union, so would not be creating a new country.
All the name calling disnae change the fact that you and your Wings cronies are talking pish.
If you’re gonnae accuse people of saying things, prove it. Go on or haud yer wheesht.
Devolution has nothing to do with the people of Scotland or those they elect to represent them.
Ken500, it’s Sewel, not Sewell.
Try to get the basics right.
The way Wings regulars attacked another poster the other day for having the cheek to say something bad about England, i don’t know whether to say that i hope England get gubbed tonight.
Wings has got this love hate relationship with the English lately.
Going by the way Wings stands by the English these days it seems there is more love than hate with them.
Devolution has failed the britnats’ own test; it has not killed Scottish nationalism stone dead.
Independence is the only solution.
Ian Blackford taking no prisoners in the Sewel debate at HoC right now. Much said about constitutional power and sovereignty.
I have no problem with English people except Unionist politicians sports reporters and News readers, but there are two or four so called Scots among them!
a wee cheery note…
Had car trouble, so took it to my mechanic. 2014 he was a staunch, staunch ‘no’ voter.
This time out, in his words, ‘I’m absolutely for Scotland, last time out, Scotland wasn’t ready, the case wasn’t made, this time, the way things are going (with Brexit), I think I’ll have to vote for Indy’.
And he was resigned, but not despondent, if that makes sense. Kind of ready to put his shoulder to the wheel. Left him with some couthy facts about our real economy.
We’re getting there folks. I still love Margo’s comment about if we all just get one other person over to yes – it keeps it managable.
Sarah,
Ha-ha, remember, the headline’s always a lie!
I’m not sure if there are any 100 yr. puyas. The very big one is 40 or 50 years, if I remember correctly but those times are for the ideal (ie. native) conditions. Mine started in a suitably, dryish, sunny spot by the dining room window but after changing the guttering it became a rather wet spot and the flax nearby became immense and nearly covered it so not so sunny either.
Anyways, yep, I’m excited and I am so glad you bothered to look it up.
@Daisy and bobp, and DMH – thank you for these bright spots midst th’encircling gloom. 2 hard Noes to Yes, and 12 new SNP members in one small branch.
Please bring on the referendum as soon as possible.
colon alexander is a wee bit narky tonight.
Devolution debate on Parliament channel.
Liar Carmichael claims SNP didn’t support devolution. If it wasn’t for Alex Salomond and SNP members doing the door to door referendum donkey work we might not have had devolution in 1999.
” Tommy Sheppard MP
@TommySheppard
The Tories are right: Scotland has two governments. But only one was elected by the people who live there, and only one has a mandate. “
Tommy Sheppard highlights the basic truth of Scotland’s current predicament.
We don’t want Tory policies, we never asked for Tory policies, we shouldn’t have to accept Tory policies …. but right now we have no mechanism to prevent Tory policies. Democracy UKnotsoOK style.
Should also have added in my last post that my big sis is a well liked extrovert character in her community. So no doubt she’ll be converting to the cause. Bless her.
TBH I tried really really hard to watch the whole of the sewel debate but after listening to Murray , Thomson , Clark and the LIAR Carmichael , aided by his wee sidekick RATTY faced Jardine I had enough
Watching Murray prostrate himself to viceroy fluffy whilst demonising the SNP highlighted to me the ultimate pinnacle of cringe and house slave , this man has no integrity or self respect , seriously it took effort to keep my dinner down
Thank god it is the SNP representing and fighting for Scotland , if it were liebour ,lib dumbs or tolies the brexshit bill would have been done and dusted with NO opposition or highlighting of a POWER GRAB
Excerpts from this debate should be edited together alongside extracts from last week to expose the rank hypocrisy and contempt for Scotland and Scottish people not only from the English MP’s but also from the brit nat parties MP’s in Scotland
IndyRef2 will make this Power Grab meaningless.
twathater says:
You did well, sitting through that!
I can’t face listening to BritNats any more. I simply don’t want to know the views of people who don’t have my country’s interests foremost.
Although obviously this WM debate is specific, but in general … I would be willing to listen to a logical fact based presentation on why they think their Union offers the best future. I’d really like to know what actually attracts them to their believes.
Never ever do they try to present a case for what they actually believe in. All I can deduce is it a mix of blind faith and self interest. Everything is SNP/SG/Scotland is bad/poor/incapable/mistaken presented without credible facts.
Nicola stood “shoulder to shoulder” with Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.
All independence supporting Scots should follow her fine example and stand “shoulder to shoulder” with the English football team at the World Cup in Russia.
In my humble opinion.
Sewel speaks out! (snorts in disbelief)
@stewartb
Re the Brexit dividend and whether it will effect the allocation of Barnett funds to Scotland if raised solely from Income Tax rises in the rUK and not in Scotland then I believe there will be no additional money provided to the block grant.
95 (4) No detriment as a result of UK government or Scottish Government policy decisions post-devolution:
From a paper written as a result of the Smith Commission post referendum.
link to gov.uk
@cearc – it was an agave Americana I was thinking of, not a puya at all. When visiting my Mum in Kent we went to see one that had burst through the roof of a [Listed]conservatory in a Ramsgate park. It grew 7 feet in one week and carried on to 35 feet or so!
Congratulations on your bog-loving puya. A lot more pleasant than a Titan Arum…
Will you be at the Inverness AUOB march? It looks nice and short but very central so highly visible.
Sewel does not have Scotlands interests at heart. Just another establishment mouthpiece. Time to tell these sewel rats to GTF. Stand up and have the courage of our convictions.
Rock you should just fcuk off. You moron.
@Dan Huil says: 18 June, 2018 at 2:13 pm:
“Well said, Robert. Anyone who says they are worried about a one-party SNP state in an independent Scotland is either very stupid or very No.”
It’s not just that, Dan. The second last thing I would want to see is an independent Scotland with only one political party no matter what that party was. The point is that the SNP are the most, or perhaps the only, really democratic party in Scotland and they are open and above board.
From the elected representatives all the way from local councils to MEPs are easily contactable via Holyrood, SNP headquarters of by their email addresses and failing all else can be reached through the Holyrood parliament. I’ve never known any of them not replying to any contacts made.
Thus if the likes of Colin and his cronies have any complaints they can make them directly to the person or grope of persons concerned.
Ask yourself this – does any other party leader than Nicola walk around the streets and talk to anyone freely without being escorted or surrounded by armed government or plain clothes police agents?
Theresa May appears in Scotland in a cavalcade of heavy landrovers. Ushered around flanked by guards. Never speaking to the public in the street, then is hurried into and out of restricted venues then rushed away again to the cavalcade in a hurry.
Not only that but neither the party officials or the elected to office members decide SNP policies for that is the function carried out in public by the delegates sent to conference by the rank & file in the local branches.
Colin has always had his not so hidden own agenda and always gets a dig in at the SNP somewhere in the dialogue. What is more he, and his cohorts are very ready to claim they are being bullied. They are all for free speech as long as it is their free speech – not so keen on other people’s right of freedom of speech.
I’m being accused of bullying Colin but by his accusations he is attempting to bully me. I’ve never told him, nor even requested, that he shouldn’t comment but Colin thinks any criticism of Colin is bullying – what then does he think his carping at the FM is?
Remember if he does it in communicating with the FM he is debating points with her but if he does it on an open forum the FM cannot normally reply. I even posted the link to the Holyrood webpage that allows anyone to contact and MSP or party at Holyrood.
Listened to the whole Sewel debate.
The vote was a farce. Surely those allowed to vote should have been those who were in the chamber.
What chance have we Scots in this dictatorship of English Westminster?
Mr Blackford, use every parliamentary standing order to frustrate procedures.
Scots voted down again by MPs who weren’t even in the debate ffs.
Sewel speaks out! (snorts in disbelief)
Is that what he was doing in that bra? 🙂
” Furious SNP blast top Tory David Mundell for ‘stabbing Scottish Parliament in the back’ over Brexit
SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford hit out at the the Scottish Secretary who was ‘playing on his iPhone’ during emergency devolution debate.”
link to archive.is
A Secretary of State for Scotland with no respect for Scotland and no self-respect.
Northern Rock. Wings has never had a love/hate relationship with the English.
Why would any one of us hate the English? What a bizarre thing to suggest.
The English are ordinary folk like you and me.
Personally, my problem is the ruling elite who, for centuries and to date, have acted with cruelty, contempt and a criminal avariciousness towards the people of Scotland and the country of Scotland. And towards much of the rest of the World too for that matter.
Thing is, the ordinary good folk of England and also those of Wales and the north of Ireland too have the same problem in varying degrees and need to be free of that kind of rotten governance too.
As for the English football team, I wish them good luck and more importantly a good game enjoyed by all. The same wish I have for all the teams taking part.
Especially Iceland =)
Galamcennalath. 9.58pm. When this piece of excrement (mundell) passes on, his final resting place will be like jimmy savilles,heinrich himmlers,osama bin ladens. There will be no queue lining up to pay their last respects to this tractorious bastirt to the Scottish nation.what a legacy to leave for the yet unborn generations. The lord haw haw of Scotland.
Collin Alexander, give us all a rest. I’ll be polite, please.
Robert Louis 6pm
Spot on. it is all part of the propaganda to sap people’s will. To make people think we will never be free of this dysfunctional union. To make people give up. To make people think it’s useless they’ll never give us a referendum.
Well it is not theirs to give. We just need to show enough Scots want independence. That means massive marches. Bannockburn needs to be big.
@ Tinto, touche’
Thepnr @9:22 pm
You wrote: “Re the Brexit dividend and whether it will effect the allocation of Barnett funds to Scotland if raised solely from Income Tax rises in the rUK and not in Scotland then I believe there will be no additional money provided to the block grant.”
Thanks for the input: it accords with my suspicion and usefully adds the formal basis.
So there would be a ‘saving’ to the UK government’s expenditure budget if it raised the funding for the NHS in England through PAYE. No consequential payment to Scotland. But this approach may also present the opportunity for the British Nationalist parties to spin this as an example of how devolution of income tax – what the SNP argued for – ‘disadvantages’ Scotland’s NHS.
Might the Tories in Holyrood shift seamlessly from complaining about a rise in Scottish income tax to improve public services in Scotland to now demanding from the SNP a rise in funding for the NHS in Scotland?
And just to ramp up matters further, this from The Scotsman online today:
‘The Scottish Tories’ shadow health secretary, Miles Briggs, called on the SNP to ensure “every penny of the extra cash she receives thanks to this UK government action goes on health care here in Scotland”. Mr Briggs said: “Too often in the past the SNP has failed to meet extra investment in the rest of the UK. The SNP must not be allowed to do that again.”
Labour health spokesman Anas Sarwar called the additional funding a “sticking plaster” but said any Barnett consequentials must be passed on to the NHS in Scotland.’
All this before there is any certainty if there even will be a Barnett Consequential – but stoking an expectation of still more funding for NHS Scotland.
Is this the fiscal trap closing a little further?
galamcennalath @ 9.58 pm Thank you for that link =)
Will try to find the whole debate to watch later (though forewarned that it is hard viewing)
From what I’ve heard already, Ian Blackford fought ferociously for Scotland today. And Tommy Shepherd too.
Mundell is wrong.
Scotland IS impressed 🙂
Sewel debate was interesting. Ian Blackford was very outspoken and spelt out the democratic deficit for Scotland. Many excellent speeches from the SNP MPs.
But one very impressive speaker was the Plaid Cymri representative Liz Saville Roberts (I think) who made an excellent speech against Westminster hegemony. If I can find a link I will post. Emphasised the need to support Wales in the face of the dreadful hold that Unionism has over the Welsh government.
To emphasis the SNP point, theScoyttish MPs were defeated by Tories who were not even in the chamber during the debate – as witness the empty Tory and Labour seats – but were still able to vote.
I think the SNP have demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that there is no point in continuing to patronise that archaic dump called Westminster.
Watched the Sewell (sewage) debate. If anyone thinks that is democracy they need to get medical help. When there is no democracy then the SNP need to disrupt and get tough. As was seen in Ireland when there is no democracy and no civil rights the men of violence come out the woodwork.
WE DO NOT WANT THAT IN SCOTLAND
Cameron introduces EVEL creating second class Scots Welsh and Irish MPs but English MPs can wander in for the vote without even taking part in the debate on SCOTTISH devolution. Yet so many English say they are fed up with the Scots tail wagging the dog. Equal partners – that’s what the Treaty of Union says that’s what better together said. Aye right the dog is shitting all over the tail.
I just hope the SNP has a plan.
What we have now then is Scottish MP’s blocked in the UK Parliament from voting on English Laws. English MP’s from a party with no mandate in Scotland voting down legislation made in the Scottish Parliament by the democratically elected Scottish Government.
You really have to laugh at those wanting out of the EU because they claim it’s not democratic.
If you haven’t read John Steill’s letter from 1844 on Scottish independence, now is the time to remedy that. I would put a link to it here but that seems to prevent my posts showing up.
This guy “James A Mcvean” on FB was good enough to transcribe it and post it to FB from the pdf which can be found @ archive dot org. I’ll post the link in a following post just in case it works,.
It is my favourite piece of writing on indy ever, and MORE relevant today than when it was written over 170 years ago.
Cubby, you are right, ‘the dog is shitting all over the tail’.
And we all know very well the SNP has a plan, and is enacting that plan, standing up for Scotland EVERY day =)
Like I said.
Mundell is wrong. Oh so very wrong.
Scotland IS impressed 🙂
“whatever form of government the Scottish people may choose for themselves, it is manifest that an entire separation from England, in a political and legislative sense is imperative, both for our safety and wellbeing. England is obviously actuated by maxims at home and views abroad, which will prove ruinous to herself and, of course, involve in a like fate every other state that has the misfortune to be entangled with her” John Steill, November 1844
The whole letter pdf can be viewed here… link to ia801505.us.archive.org
Jfngw 10.31pm. Aye that just about sums it up. And hopefully a lot of the proudscotbuts have now seen through this sh*t.we can but hope!
I am not an expert on House of Commons’ procedure and practises, but, I feel the SNP missed a trick today when they did not try to make the debate on the Brexit nonsense and the clawback of powers a matter for the Scottish Grand Committee.
They would surely have won their case at the SGC, then, we can be certain seen their finding voted down by the in-built English majority, therefore further emphasising what a waste of time it is Scotland having representatives at Westminster.
If the Tories can use EVEL, the SNP should be reconvening the SGC at every opportunity.
Scottish Tories eying up Mundell’s job? The linesman & the other Ross in the front line? Having studied their attitude tonight, exactly what the English would wish for. Replace rubbish with tunnel vision but are they as rhino skinned as Fluffy?
Can’t help but feel a little bit of sympathy for him. NOBODY, including his colleagues, gave him any support. Where does he put all that excreta he is hit with?
If he goes, look at the saving he will make on toilet paper, having only to wipe his a**e & not his mouth.
As others have said on here before, Snp mp’s in westminster a total waste of time.outnumbered,outvoted , no voice. A total piss take out of the Scottish voting public. WHAT IS THE POINT OF IT??. its not f****g democracy.
@ Gerry – good quote. It was interesting today that Ian Blackford cited Parnell as a historcal parallel. He obviously does have a plan for where the SNP group is heading.
The vote today was about demolishing the Sewell convention.
Accomplished.
@Capella
“But one very impressive speaker was the Plaid Cymri representative Liz Saville Roberts”
Yes me too, you could see her sitting behind the SNP’s Gavin Newlands when he was giving his speech (also very good) and I thought she must have been another SNP MP that I didn’t know.
Anyway one thing she said surprised me and that is that the Welsh Assembly run by Labour have now decided they do want a voice at any Supreme Court hearing over the Scottish Government’s continuity bill.
And that they are going to be speaking on behalf of the Tories in that the acceptance of the bill was a good thing!
OK it was words to that effect but still a shocker, Labour in Wales would be better served by keeping their noses out of any fight between a Scottish government and a Westminster Tory government else risk ending up splattered with egg and not just on their faces.
@ Thepnr – yes she was very forceful in her criticism of both Tory and Labour unionists.
I’ll try to find a clip of her speech, but not tonight, sack time for me!
I watched the whole debate tonight and the only hope I took from it was the Scottish Tories saying the SG/SNP will send the powers straight back to the EU.
Therefore, they believe Scotland will be independent in the not too distant future.
Although when we vote for independence then we decide whether it will be EU or EFTA.
I think I just witnessed an extended Tory PPB on BBC2, I thought Newsnight was normally on at 22:30?
Not only that there was a powder puff interview with Ruth Davidson who I think was explaining what a good idea tax rises were. Obviously the BBC Presenter seemed unaware of her vehement dislike of these in Scotland. I don’t think I have ever seen her on the BBC being asked an even slightly difficult question, it was embarrassing sycophantic interview again.
Not even sure why she was on as she isn’t even an MP and therefore has no vote on any of these policies.
stewartb
Labour health spokesman Anas Sarwar called the additional funding a “sticking plaster” but said any Barnett consequentials must be passed on to the NHS in Scotland.’
All this before there is any certainty if there even will be a Barnett Consequential – but stoking an expectation of still more funding for NHS Scotland.
Is this the fiscal trap closing a little further?
The important part of what Sarwar said was “any Barnett consequentials” because as you point out we do not yet know what form of tax rises may take place to pay for this so called “Brexit Dividend”.
The main point though is that any tax rises will not be just to pay for the NHS, oh no, it will be to pay for the Brexit Bill that we are going to be landed with.
A big fat initial bill and then an ongoing one, expect tax rises right across the board. The price of utter stupidity doesn’t come cheap as we will find out. I don’t see why the tax payers in Scotland should be paying the price for the ignorance of voters in England and Wales who voted to leave.
If all utter shambles is the price we have to pay before the No voters in 2014 have a change of heart and vote Yes next time, then that’s one I’m willing to pay.
It really is only a matter of time now and I’d put money on that.
Before bedtime folks
Scotland is the only country on the face of planet earth that can’t run its own affairs
They tell us this every day, insulting Bastirts aren’t they
Some halfwit earlier on posted that he actually wishes England well in their World Cup games. What????????????????
It is built into the DNA of Scots to wish England nothing but bad luck and see them get hammered.
Wings is becoming a standard bearer for all things English.
And don’t give me that old Bull that it is the English Establishment that we are against. It is the whole of England
Watching the debate tonight, the Labour/ LibDem tactic seems to be to try to present themselves as the reasonable grown-ups who KNOW how Westminster works. Unfortunately, all it does is show them to be embedded in the system for the long-term just waiting their turn at the Westminster see-saw with no desire to change anything.
The patronising tone of Lesley Laird is particularly indicative of this and was there ever anyone more desperate to be part of the system than Christine Jardine? I find her the most sneeringly unpleasant and condescending of all the LibDems
Where is Ian Murray getting this stuff about Mike Russell agreeing to a deal and then being overruled by Nicola Sturgeon? I have heard this bandied about from the Tories but Murray wasn’t at the discussions and aren’t the Labour Party screeching to have the minutes published to find out what went on?
A depressingly predictable outcome on the vote but these SNP MPs really earn their money.
BBC Scottish News featuring the opinions of Lord Sewell but none of us.
Paul Sweeney getting Ruthie level promotion now. Popping up all the time on BBC. Richard who is obviously not cutting it.
How does this sound.
Corbyn overthrown
Sir Keith Harmer new Labour leader
Safe establishment figure running Labour. Establishment relaxes General Election held. Doesn’t matter who wins it anymore with right wing Labour leader in place
SNP fights such General Election on the single issue of assuming independence
@Northern Rock
That’s a loud voice you’ve got, who are you speaking for?
@ Thepnr at 10.49 and Capella at 10.58
I was going to class this as Off-topic, but it does reflect your comments:
I’ve just been reading Hansard in an attempt to find out who the Labour and LD MPs who voted with the SNP on the Sewel Convention were (it’s a rolling report which hasn’t got to the vote yet – don’t tell me!) and something very strange/revealing happened.
Lesley Laird refused to give way to Jonathan Edwards of Plaid Cymru, with the following words:
She’s a member of the Opposition! (As is he, though not the “official” one.) He will have been sitting on the same side of the chamber as she was, so how could she possibly have regarded him as being opposed? Do we now have a government, an opposition, and the opposition’s opposition, who are somehow not the government?
@Northern Rock
You are Indy2 and I claim my £5.
northern rock
is a troll and not a very good one —–yawwnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
@crazycat
To a British Nationalist politician all those that support Independence for their own countries ARE the opposition.
No other explanation possible really and it shows.
@ Thepnr
Aye, but it was so blatant! Not to mention arrogant, as if she were already imagining herself as Secretary of State.
OT IMO England are a good team this time round and could do well. Also their manager has made sure that, for the first time ever, English expectations are lower than reality which should help them on the way.
The undermining effect of hubris is not just an English phenomena.
Back in the days when Scotland had a good team, it was hubris that lead to their underachieving, IMO.
On Topic. Hubris remains the biggest threat to the indy movement, IMV, especially but not entirely among elected representatives.
Welsh Sion – can you please post the speech by Liz Saville-Roberts as you did on Wee Ginger Dug website?
Dave Mc Ewan Hill
I do wonder if this talk of increasing money to the NHS and raising of taxes by the party opposed to raising taxes, i.e. Tories, is the preamble to a G Election soon?
@Still Positive
Just popped over to WGD and nicked the url for her speech from Welsh Sion’s post, here it is
link to youtube.com
Cameron B Hide that tin of Talcum powder Sewells aboot
jfngw @ 22:31,
Well said.
You have to wonder when everyone who recognises full well the MSM’s longstanding pernicious attack on Scotland will also come to recognise their equally-pernicious and even longer-term attack on the EU.
For the BritNats, “bring back control” means all power must be held by Westminster. No alternatives accepted!
As we’re seeing now, UKGov is even trying to get Parliament to neuter itself, so it will be in full unfettered charge.
Now, on what fraction of the last UKGE vote were the Tories elected, perchance?
This is a complete travesty of democracy. The system is as rotten as the corroded building that supposedly houses it.
jfngw @ 23:08:
Now why am I not surprised?!
Though one wonders if the Mayhem Gang are listening to her any more than to that failed stuffed dummy Mundell.
Dear Welsh Sion,,
Can you spread this in Wales… I know there’s a few good singers.
Tae the tune of ‘what a friend we have in Jesus’
What’s the point in voting Labour
They will only just abstain
except when claiming their expenses
Then these troughers known no shame
Chorus
They were only flipping houses
They were only starting wars
not a Socialist amongst them
Sold out for the house of lords
Whats the point in voting Labour
They will only just abstain
Red and Blue they stand together
Red and Blue they are the same
(Chorus tune)
They blame the poor and this disabled
They blame the migrants at the dock
But most of all when all else fails them
They blame it on the bloody Jocks’
Whats the point in voting Labour
They will only just abstain
Except when voting for THEIR Pay rise
Then these troughers know no shame
They were only flipping houses
They were only starting WARS
Not a Socialist amongst them
Sold out for the House of Lords
What friend we have in Corbyn
Keeping Trident on the Clyde
And where he stands on dear auld Brexit
Is with the Tories Side by Side
They were only flipping houses
They were only starting Wars
not a Socialist amongst them
Sold out for the house of lords
For the money, no fir you!
Ey oop, the glish are cracking, Northern Rock. They want independence, too.
link to youtube.com
Northern Rock @ 11.30 pm, I am guessing all that was tongue in cheek =)
‘Some halfwit posted earlier on that he actually wished England well in their World Cup Games! What??????etc’
Just so you know, that ‘halfwit’ is not a he but a she.
And this ‘halfwit’ stands by every word posted @ 9.58 pm.
And joking aside, you are wrong on every count.
Again, I wish the English team good luck, and more importantly a good game that all can enjoy. I wish the same for all the teams in the World Cup.
Especially Iceland 🙂
Ooops, correction: Ghillie @ 9.59 pm =)
Lord Sewel – another labour ermine trougher whose head is addled like so many of the other ‘Lords’. One of the many Labour mp’s who sold out to the House of Lords.
No amount of prosperity, whether commercial
or agricultural, can excuse or palliate mean conduct like this ; and
however much we may boast ourselves of our enlightenment, and
the pretended happiness we enjoy under English rule, were our
unpolished, but brave, honest, and shrewd Scottish ancestors to
rise from their graves, and to behold in us their descendents the
wreck and prostration of that glorious principle of nationality
which burned so intensely in their bosoms, and for which they so
often enthusiastically fought and bled, they would utterly disown
and despise us.
John Steill 1844
Meg merrilees at 12.16
If there is to be a General Election we should fight it as an Independence Coalition. I want to see Lesley Riddoch on the ballot paper and Carolyn Leckie and Paul Kavanagh and Aamer Anwar and other heroes.
Graeme, was John Steill one of the Radicals alongside Thomas Muir? (I know, I should look it up, just away to do that now)
Awesome quotes. Scary how perfect those thoughts are now. Why has it taken so long? As always and timeless, life and circumstances I guess.
I think John Steill, and certainly Thomas Muir, and I am pretty sure also my own ancestors from Sutherland and Ireland, would be immensely proud of us all now 🙂
But the folk who want independence are not who he was talking about.
William Hague’s just gone up in my estimation.
Please, please, please do as you usually do and use Scotland as the guinea pig. Thank you.
Gerry – good find.
Have printed it off and now near greetin’
Written 174 years ago and still as relevant today.
Get off your knees Scotland. Now is the time.
Whoever has their hand up Ghillie, I’ve got to commend you on the lack of self-awareness you have given this one. It’s still completely unbelievable, mind.
EBC: apparently nothing happened to interest Scotland yesterday.
Nothing, nada, zilch on any of their web pages this morning.
We are an irrelevance.
O/T A good laugh! Very relevant.
link to m.youtube.com
OFF TOPIC – but in a way relevant
From the Rev’s twitter feed, that stupid woman on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire, saying Cambridge was in the North.
To a certain type of Tory, it is in the north, after all, it’s outside the M25 ring, but, still just below that bit of their map which reads: “Here be Socialists and Separatists.”
Ghillie says:
19 June, 2018 at 8:14 am
“Graeme, was John Steill one of the Radicals alongside Thomas Muir?”
I have no idea Ghillie I know nothing about the man in fact I’d never heard of him until the link to the letter I quoted from was posted here, but he sounds like a man before his time but I believe now his time has come, he is one of us, he’s a yesser a proud Scot minus the “but”and a true patriot, and we could do with more of his like
Reluctant nationalist.
What exactly do you mean?
Graeme says:
19 June, 2018 at 6:27 am
No amount of prosperity, whether commercial…
It’s a new quote to me Graeme, but a notion I had in my head growing up. The strange thing is, these days, I think it’s wrong. Well, not exactly wrong, but it’s the language of the defeated. It actually reminds of MalcolmX and the detestation the field slave has for the house slave. It’s understandable in its wretchedness, but it doesn’t hit the right target to actually bring about change.
Our Independence won’t be delivered by our frustration, self loathing or loathing of Unionists amongst us, nor by any rampant “cringe”. Independence instead will come through our confidence, our belief within ourselves, and the uplifting affirmation that we are absolutely right in what we are doing. We’ve had our information, and we’re nearly ready for our revolution.
If wider opinion believes Scots are to be despised for their complicity in subjugation, if that sorry opinion must exist at all, then let us be the new generation of confident Scots who is exempt from it. Let this generation be the generation our forefathers would approve of, the generation which awoke from its betrayal and induced slumber, and stood up for Scotland’s freedom, winning against all odds, and without the unholy slaughter of a battlefield.
Just yesterday, browsing the Rev’s Twitter feed, there was a gross picture of someone who had murdered a rare black giraffe for “sport”.
link to mobile.twitter.com
The “big game hunter” is obscene of course, but look further through the africlandpost timeline. The man is in despair about the plight of Africa, but his frustration is with the stupidity of Africans who allow it to happen. But there was also a quote which stuck in my head…
”The PROBLEM with our continent is NOT lack of leadership but lack of informed population. You can change all African leaders today and you’ll get even worse younger leaders ready to sell us again…this is why our goal must be information first before revolution.”
The quote is about Africa, but it might easily have been about Scotland for these last 300+ years, but thanks to the SNP, social media and the spread of information, the quote is not so accurate about the Scotland of today. Scotland is at last standing up for itself not through bloodshed or hatred, but through education and communication.
It’s curious the consider the BBC’s significant roll in suppressing communication and manipulation information…but that’s a bigger issue.
There’s some very thought provoking comments in the thread by the way… It’s quite a journey. You sadly feel like you’re the enemy he’s talking about some of the time, but he has a greater vision than that. Africa’s greatest need is education, …and internet to deliver it.
Pretty much last night’s debate and vote underscores just why the political union is wrong and broken on so many levels. (shrugs) Who knew?
It didn’t matter that the arguments were with the devolved legislations. That they were in the moral and ethical right of those arguments. The procedure of the house, the legality it used to underwrite its vote and the sheer numbers commanded by those opposed to that argument, meant it was always going to lose.
D. E. M. O. C. R. A. T. I. C.
D. E. F. I. C. I. T.
Noun: any situation in which there is believed to be a lack of democratic accountability and control over the decision-making process.
Much like the argument for independence itself. Three hundred plus years of propaganda, the machinery of the UK state and media behind the anti independence argument and an entirely manufactured/propagated narrative won the day in September 2014. It didn’t have the moral or ethical right on its side, but it claimed the victory regardless. It used democracy against itself in order to deny people the right to govern themselves.
It didn’t matter who was right or wrong, only who could field more advantage to win. All their numbers, their power and their influence didn’t make them right. It simply made them more able to get across the finish line and take the win. It doesn’t make the laws they pass and the legislation they enact right or good either. Ask the UN what they think of the UK’s benefits sanctions, universal credit, immigration policy… etc, etc. Too many appalling acts in human history carry the law of the day on their shoulders.
Thing about power and influence though? It doesn’t last forever. It can be here one day and gone the next. Also? They’re not the only ones who can use laws and a system. Those laws and that system can be used the right way. Just as a system can be used against people, it can also be used for them and against itself.
An ability to influence and manipulate the thoughts and votes of an electorate can only last so long as the next lie holds up and people vote for them. When you’ve seen a thing for yourself, it can’t be unseen and the lie can’t ever hold sway over your opinion ever again. You take your choice and your vote back. You empower yourself at that point. They only have this power so long as you allow them to. You decide who is more fit to wield it and administer to your needs. I’d say what people have seen in the past two weeks won’t be forgotten in a hurry. Folk should know how to use those memories by now. You don’t have to take what they’re doling out and you don’t have to accept their laws and legislation forever.
Coming to a ballot box near you soon.
Reluctant Nationalist , are you referring to his support for cannabis or the fact he made 20 million quid out of resigning?
Links
They think it’s all over, it is now.!
link to barrheadboy.com
link to change.org
You can object here
link to eplanning.lochlomond-trossachs.org.
link to itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com
Save to your mobiles and show everyone you meet
link to twitter.com
link to peterabell.blog
link to heart.co.uk
EU’s Mounting Challenges: Pan-EU Solutions Vital but Unlikely
link to scer.scot
link to thecanary.co
A letter to the Glasgow Examiner from John Steill in 1844
link to ia801505.us.archive.org
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
Brexit and my “Journey to Yes” as an Englishman living in Ayrshire.
link to tobold.org
link to thepeoplesnewsonline.co.uk
Brussels seeks to tie UK to European human rights court after Brexit
link to archive.is
link to voxpoliticalonline.com
link to lbc.co.uk
The voyage of the Liam Fox Enterprise is set for Brexit mission failure
link to archive.is
link to catalannews.com
link to hillreporter.com
Usual outpouring by some here of little Englander, the Sun says, philistinism re the School of Art.
Was taken there a few times before the original fire, it was open to the public, and my then child’s mind was captivated. I’d seen nothing like this in my experience. Scottish creative art that influenced Europe and the world…wow!
This second fire should not deny my experience to others.
In Japan ancient buildings destroyed by earthquake or fire are customarily rebuilt and few can tell the difference.
The centres of cities in continental Europe, Munich, Dresden and Warsaw for example, were meticulously reconstructed after bombing. Even the IS damaged sites in Syria can be reconstructed.
The GSA ought to be rebuilt as was. The skills are there. We owe it to Mackintosh, to his imagination and his determination in the face of native indifference during his troubled lifetime to reconstruct this masterwork.
At the same time those who have been negligent in their oversight of this building must be ‘brought to book’. Mackintosh must have justice.
Prior to T May’s announcement SNP had already promised an additional £2 billion for Scotland’s health service in the lifetime of this Parliament.
Also great article in Herald by Prof Aileen McHarg of Strathclyde Public Law in which she says “this is a radical re-reading of the Sewel Convention which would seriously undermine the protection it offers for devolved autonomy”
Lord Sewel’s last newspaper intervention here
link to thesun.co.uk
No wonder such a lot of people get so fed up with football. The terraces are empty. Do not support it and the factions around it. Fighting each other and squabbling.like no others. Often causing violence and trouble. Overpaid prima donnas. Not a sporting challenge. Boring and frustrating. Why humans being would try each others patience so badly. With out humour, equality, joy or happiness. Just an excuse for a rammy, Not on a level playing field. Totally unequal and unfounded. The cheats, fakers and big egos take all. Do not leave anything for others. Selfish and greedy. Trying to lord it over others. It’s only a game. Not propaganda.
It’s only a game. Involving some corrupt organisers. FIFA one of the must corrupt organisations in the world, The clubs are being run by perverts, bigots and tax evaders. Treating the punters like mugs. Overpaid pathetic maradonnas, Tribals running in backs like a bunch of bullies or outer experience. Devoid of any sympathy. Just a way of trying to belittle others. Sometimes with brutal actiins and aggression to intimidate. .
Thank goodness the tennis season has started. Wimbledon season and Andy Murray. His compatriots and companions. They know how to evaluate good practice and joyous comaradiere. Winner still takes all but what an epic of spectacular of great behaviour. Still grand proportion of equal respect. Not of disillusion of poor temperament. Just quiet appreciation. A game of gentlemen, gentle giants physic and endurance. A lesson in manners. One to be admired. Sparring like titians.
C’mon Andy, Jamie and all others. Can’t wait for reappearance. Today a special day like no other. Hope not one of disappointment. Ambassadors of sport and good example. We are the champions. We are the champions. We are the champions of the world. Hold the trophies up on high. .The champions of the world.
No sure about cricket. We just like tennis. Not sure about cricket.boring. Polo with a hole in it. Quite like water sports and swimming. Taking a shower. Athletics and world games, in all weathers. We are the champions of the world. Don’t need foottie. Or wrong footing it. Running away from the game and dropping the ball. Political. In the other Court for OFBA. Dropping procedures of good behaviour. To cause trouble of mass proportions. Offending others like lots of mug and deceptive runnings. Not fit or healthy Faking injury and bad betting behaviour. Causing bad gambling problems of poor outcome. Drugs and cheating., without censor. Not knowing rights of sporting behaviour. Money talks and influence. Bribery and corruption.
Sectarian, bigoted peverted behaviour. Not a beautiful game, offending others. They are not the champions of the world. Up sporting behaviour that is appreciated. Not causing, trouble offence, expense to others and time wasting,
.
.
Gerry, what I have managed to find so far is that John Steill of the awesome quotes, was a member of the NAVSR in the 19th century.
Call out to Robert Peffers or to our learned Winged historians.
Many thanks, because I know someone will fill in this picture =)
Ghillie and Thepnr are a pair of English Nationalist Trolls.
If you two want to stand by England and all the damage that that country has done to mine then go ahead,,BUT don’t tell me to do a similar thing.
I will fight the English all the way until we are free of them.
And Thepnr thinks i am some other poster called Indy2 because the two of us had similar views regarding the English.
There are a couple of posters on Wings who are taking this “Sticking up for England” just a little too far.
Infact Thepnr, they have got a new website up and running for all you English lovers, they call it Scotland in Union.
Ya shower of English luvvvin Halfwits.
Count me out of that one BritNats.
Ta Nana.
Timing perfect as usual. 🙂
A shared interest in Scottish tidal power led to the completion of a groundbreaking renewable-energy deal.
link to archive.is
link to thebutterflyrebellion.scot
link to infacts.org
@ Sarah, Agave is wot the Mexicans make Mescal from, hic!
The Scottish SNP Gov has already spent the money mitigating the cuts from the Tories from 2015 till 2020. They have had to take the money from other budgets. That is why the SNHS is in better shape and outperforming others in the rest of the UK. Migated because it is such an important service for the benefit of the nation. Love, cherished respected and appreciate by all.
Thanks to all the explempary workers in the NHS. Love and affection from all the nation and society, Nurses and all health workers. Angels in white and other harmonies. Life savers. Doctors and nurses and all healthcare workers, £Millions or billions of thanks is not enough. Thank of appreciation is never enough. Altruistic. Same to all care workers and others in public service and caring professions.
Thanks to Rev Stu as well for all being done for others. Thanks a billion for the special service. Altruistic. Putting up with stress, strife and spite to help others, Thanks forever. Never forgotten.
Northern Rock, you must follow your own heart.
I am able to wish well to sports women and men from all around the world .
Without prejudice.
The SNP Scottish Gov have mitigated the cuts to the NHS by the Tories. Intending from 2015 till 2020. £20Billion cut. (Masquerading as saving?? Not possible) £4Billion a year,
Ie SG pro rata funding. It was taken from other budgets which now need reimbursed.
May is just putting in the funding to mitigate the ConDem intended cuts from 2015 to 2020 of which she approved and sanctioned while she was in cabinet. May and the others are habitual, greedy liars who try and fool the public. Trying to pull the wool over their eyes and lying. A pathetic attempt to save themselves from justified criticism A complete and utter coarse nasty disgrace. The Tory unionists and nasty party. Sanctioning and starving the vulnerable general public. Getting away with murder and natural justice. Breaking the Law.
Nana says
Good article. And a timely warning!
” Scotland’s democracy will either survive and prosper, or be crushed out of existence. Mundell and his fellow British Nationalists …. certainly recognise the threat posed to the established order by the wave of democratic dissent rising in Scotland.”
… we better believe it. This is it, the biggest battle, the end game – one way or another.
Gerry: thanks for the link to the Steill letter, which was most relevant and inspiring.
Of course, there have always been lots of Scots who have felt our way and who fought tirelessly after 1707 to restore our freedom and dignity, it’s just that they could be largely ignored by newspapers and publishers, and the MPs we sent to WM weren’t interested in defending Scottish interests. The internet has been great for individual patriots who find they are not lone voices and are not mad.
Two works by James D Young give the real picture of Scottish dissent: “The Very Bastards of Creation” and “The Rousing of the Scottish Working Class 1774-2008”. There’s a reason these can be difficult (and expensive) to find, of course.
My only concern for Mr Steill is that he would have risked hammers for his paragraphing had The Rev been around in those days.
link to news.gov.scot
link to indyref2.scot
link to itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com
link to politico.eu
That’s all for a while folks. Take care everybody and watch your blood pressure!
Well just one more.
link to gtcs.org.uk
Tinto Cheil =) You beat me to it! I did fear for Mr Steill and the flying hammers!! Maybe paragraphs weren’t such a big deal in those days.
Nana @ 9.00 am Thank you for the link to John Steill’s letter from 1844.
Graeme, thank you especially for bringing John Steill’s letter to our attention.
Please folks take a few moments to read this letter from the recent past. John Steill’s thoughts and very modern sentiments have blown me away.
Our work towards Independence is modern and old.
The Radicals of the 19th century speak to us now in an enlightened way that has never been extinguished.
I think we all knew that the convention vote would go the Tories way, it’s how Westminster works. They all retire to the bar and at voting time are all shepherded by their minders into the voting lobby. It’s why they don’t want an electronic voting system, it would disturb their their valuable drinking time as they would need to spend some time in the chamber.
“David Mundell has closed the door on a post-Brexit devolution agreement with the Scottish Government “
… perhaps it’s now a case of, as they say in the US, “see you in court”!
link to archive.is
Many thanks to those that have shared information on John Steill’s writing. I had never come across the man.
I wonder if he is the same ‘Steill’ mentioned here?
“William Wallace Statue: A particularly prominent monument on Rosemount Viaduct in Aberdeen city centre, this massive statue of William Wallace (1274 – 1305) in classical dress stands in front of His Majesty’s Theatre, overlooking Union Terrace Gardens. Erected in 1888, it was the work of sculptor William Grant Stevenson (1849 – 1919). The monument was paid for with funds left for the purpose by John Steill of 38 Grange Road in Edinburgh, the son of James Steill sometime of Easter Baldowrie in Angus.”
link to scottish-places.info
The fact now is in 2018, that the United Kingdom is no longer even remotely a democratic basis for Scotland. It is English tyranny rule, pure and simple.
It is sad, in many ways, because Westminster right now, is on course to do to Scotland, what they did to Ireland many years ago, and we all know how that ended – although I guess the ‘Ross Thomsons’ of this world probably actually don’t.
Don’t get me wrong that is not a ‘call to arms’ or even suggesting violence, just merely stating the obvious. When you remove any semblance of democracy from an entire nation, what else can the people of that nation do. Look at the daily sneering and contempt with which predominantly English, but some supposedly ‘scottish’ British nationalist MP’s behave.
But I pose the question again, when All semblance of democracy is removed from a nation against its clearly expressed wishes, what other options are there. Westminster has unilaterally decided it will forcibly remove Scotland and its people from the EU against its wishes. Westminster has unilaterally decided it will forcibly remove whatever powers it chooses from the Scottish Parliament. THAT is the reality right now. That is NOT democracy. It is tyranny.
If that is not reason alone for Scotland to declare the treaty of union at an end, then I do not know what is. These things HAVE been done now. They are not ‘plans’ or ‘things for consideration’, no, they are actuality.
I cannot be alone in finding all of this pussy footing around tedious. It is clear that Westminster could not give a flying f*** about what Scotland, the Scottish Parliament or the people of Scotland thinks. In such circumstances, it is no longer tenable to insist that Scotland is a part of a union with England.
This has to stop. It really has. Not next year, not next month, but NOW. I am sick and tired of having my country and its people insulted and sneered at by a Government in England which Scotland NEVER elected. They have NO mandate. None.
stewartb, that would seem to fit =)
So much to learn here. THIS is our history 🙂
Robert Louis, there is no ‘tedious pussy footing’ going on.
You are witnessing brilliant politicians at work.
jfngw says:
Indeed. There can’t be many jobs left where it’s acceptable to turn up ‘half cut’, if any.
Also, this whole thing where they ignore the debate, then just vote as told. That is a complete nonsense. A genuine affront to democracy.
They need a seat for everyone, electronic voting, a policy of only those attending debates get to vote, and sobriety.
But that’s just scraping the surface of what’s wrong at the Waistmidden. Much more would need sorting to change it into a democratic institution. For me the biggest deficiency is how an MP can be elected on 25% of votes cast, and a government can take absolute power on 35% of votes cast.
As for the upper chamber, it simply needs scraped.
Ghillie,
I guess you think that was an attack on the SNP, it wasn’t. It was an attack on every thing that is holding Scotland back.
The key point remains. It is patent nonsense to think that Scotland is in a bilateral treaty with England. If so, that means the treaty of union is at an end. Ended by Westminster.
Aye, Westminster is certainly busy shooting itself in both feet.
link to ukcolumn.org
Go to 34min 28 sec will will freeze frame at 43 min 22 sec move it on 10sec it should start again.
Worth watching .
John Steill is proving rather elusive.
I found these letters to him from Thomas Carlyle.
The concern seems to be Irish immigration in to Scotland – which Carlyle clearly hates.
I hope the context for Steill’s fine words wasn’t a desire to control immigration in to Scotland.
link to carlyleletters.dukeupress.edu
Anybody else discovering more?