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Wings Over Scotland

The country that wasn’t

Posted on September 19, 2014 by

Last night, everyone in Scotland lost.


45% of the electorate in the highest turnout in modern UK political history voted for hope and for change, and didn’t get them. 55% voted in terror of change, but will get it (for the worse) anyway.

The No campaign desperately abandoned all pretence of being an alliance and turned into a red-and-yellow-branded Labour one, only to lose in Labour’s core Glasgow heartland and doom the party to all but certain defeat in both 2015 and 2016. The SNP will likely take advantage at the ballot box, but win only a poisoned chalice.

The Tories will triumph in the next UK election as saviours of the Union, then be forced into an EU referendum only a demented minority of them really want, and which will result in a disastrous exit from the EU. And of course, the Lib Dems were dying no matter what.

So it goes.

The 10-point defeat is closer than anyone had imagined the Yes movement would ever get until the final few weeks. As it turned out, the polls were too optimistic.

In the Yes strongholds, home to the “missing million” on whom the campaign’s hopes were pinned, turnout bucked the trend and was lowest. 25% of the people of our biggest city simply didn’t care. The unprecedented surge of electoral engagement and participation was mobilised mainly to prevent something from happening, not to make it happen.

Scotland, it pains us to say, will get the reward it deserves for its gutlessness. Having voluntarily surrendered the only bargaining chip that it’s had for the past few decades and scorned the chance to be the richest country in the world ever to declare independence, a harsh new “devolution settlement” will be imposed that will rob it of most of the gains of the Scottish Parliament, and the parties of the Union will be able to say truthfully that in doing so they’ve delivered exactly what they promised. The theatrical protestations of numerous Tory MPs in recent days will vanish when the reality is spelled out to them.

(It’s surely the bitterest irony of the entire independence debate that Scotland’s only faint hope of avoiding brutal fiscal evisceration in the coming years is to pray that all three Westminster parties DO break their promises.)

But that’s it. The battle is over. Let there be no doubt that the result was a fair and accurate reflection of votes cast, the odd isolated incident aside. That the odds were stacked against Yes by the massive vested interests of billionaires, gravy-train MPs and a uniformly hostile media is neither here nor there – with the exception of the BBC, all of those interests were perfectly entitled to act to their own benefit, not that of the Scottish people, and if the Scottish people willingly allowed themselves to be frightened and cowed they have nobody but themselves to blame.

While entitled to its bias, however, the Scottish press has beyond any reasonable dispute disgraced itself in terms of professional journalistic integrity. We suspect that without the referendum that it covered so abysmally poorly to prop up sales, its ongoing decline will accelerate rapidly. We will not mourn it.

(On a purely personal level, I’ll be cancelling my BBC licence fee on Monday. This clip was the final straw – its breathtakingly audacious, brazen, jaw-dropping dishonesty would have made employees of Pravda shuffle awkwardly and stare at their feet in shame, and there can be no possible defence of it. It’s not necessary to break the law to dodge the licence fee. In the modern age, fewer and fewer people watch TV live anyway, and it’ll be a minor inconvenience well worth enduring for the satisfaction of knowing that I’m at least no longer paying to be insulted and lied to.)

As for Wings Over Scotland, we’ll be taking some much-needed time off before coming to a decision about whether the site will carry on or not. Right now it’s difficult to think of any useful purpose it can serve. The brave new Scotland we could all have built is lost. The Scottish people can bring no meaningful influence to bear on politics for the forseeable future – whoever they elect at Holyrood will be crippled by budget cuts as a result of the new tax “powers”, and Scottish votes will be as impotent at Westminster as they’ve always been. We cannot envisage the UK government allowing there to be another independence referendum in our lifetime.

But decisions shouldn’t be made in haste in the depths of defeat, so we’ll take some time to consider it. And whatever happens, we owe you, our incredible readers, thanks that can’t adequately be expressed in words.

Over the last three years you’ve supported this site in ways beyond our dreams. In the month before the referendum, thanks to your donations and your tip-offs and your links and tweets and shares, we reached over 820,000 readers, and your donations and your work helped us distribute well over 1 million copies, in digital and print formats, of the Wee Blue Book. Not one Scottish voter has the excuse of ignorance. The information was before them if they wanted it.

That we all terrified the elite and the establishment more than it has ever been frightened in living memory is not in doubt. In the end they were too strong, and all of the UK will suffer as a result.

But let’s not engage in vainglorious denial. This is a story of failure. Our best efforts fell short. Our nation region bottled it. Whether there’s any point in continuing the fight is a choice we’ll all have to make for ourselves. Good luck.

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1040 to “The country that wasn’t”

  1. This was only round one.

    The next referendum campaign starts in 2018 once the Uk
    votes to leave Europe.

    Once a YES always a yes next time we only need to get another 5%

    Onwards and upwards

  2. Elizabeth says:

    @Robert Louis

    Unfortunately, I wonder if many of them have any shame. They’ve made their choice. It’s God Save The Queen

  3. handclapping says:

    No no Scottish Independence Party SIP
    I’ll drink to that 😉

  4. gillie says:

    A Lord with a private island and William Hague who once called for the Scottish parliament to be dissolved are now tasked to decide Scotland’s future.

    Do those who voted No now realise what they have effin’ done?

    Honestly I don’t think they ever will.

  5. Ananurhing says:

    We’ll need Wings to get the message over to Cameron.

    If it ain’t Full Fiscal you can FUCK OFF!

  6. Giggy says:

    Given the demographic breakdown, I wonder if this means the end of free bus pass and free care of the elderly when the cuts come.
    It’s all about the kids.

  7. Alan says:

    Scotlands majority has chosen to be better together….
    I don’t think we can no longer expect all the extras we have had..
    Why should scotland as part of the uk have free tuition fees , prescriptions , medical and subsidised dental treatment … When the rest of the uk has to pay..

    At the heart of most scottish people is to help and share but we bottled it thinking we the individual could win more in the Westminster rat race….

    Hopefully not but I’m sure , One day , we will al look back and say why didn’t we..

    Until then the majority wants the rich to get richer and the poor poorer so you’s all better get on it !!!

  8. Lesley-Anne says:

    Look out she’s off on one again. 😉

    First up. I know it sounds purile and silly but I think the idea of the Tartan Army remaining silent during the playing of FoS at football matches may work. It will certainly get across to most people watching that there is a quiet revolution going on in Scotland. Cameron and his lap dogs thought they killed off that revolution last night. Well they didn’t they have just awoken a sleeping giant in my opinion. We have seen what can be achieved with a great deal of hard work when faced with practically ALL the newspapers of Scotland and UK as well as being up against all the television channels to boot.

    Last night’s result is a hard knock to accept but accept it we must. WE must pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and get right back into the fight. In order to do this we need to get organised, all 1.6 Million YES supporters.

    Second in the plan of action is what to do about all those quisleng’s, sorry Stu I really feel the need to use that word here. There is 1 Tory M.P., 11 LibDem M.P.’s and 41 Labour M.P.’s currently supping from the trough of plenty at Westminster. They MUST be kicked out from WM, every dog last one of them, NO exceptions. We need to come up with a plan of action NOW, in my view (O.K. not RIGHT now but in a few weeks maybe 😉 ), as to how best we can get rid of them all. I think some folks had it right last night. Sending 59 SNP M.P.’s to WM would certainly be a MAJOR wake up call to them that Scottish independence has NOT gone away! Can we do this?

    Thirdly we have the 5 Lib Dem M.S.P.’s, 15 Tory M.S.P.’s and 37 Labour M.S.P.’s to remove from Holyrood. Can we do this in 2016 I wonder. Well I believe we can. As others have mentioned last night’s failure is not, in my view anyway, down to the S.N.P. My suggestion for dealing with the Holyrood ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s would be to return an S.N.P. government to power but where there are Labour, Tory and LibDem M.S.P.’s we make sure that the likes of SSP, Solidarity, Greens, RIC,LfI etc are returned instead.

    This is not going to be easy. I think this will require a lot of collaboration between the parties. Can it be done, YES I think it can provided the parties concerned are prepared to work together as they have done up till now to ensure that maximum votes go to these parties. I know this may require some parties only standing in some seats and not in others but this is where the collaboration comes in. We can still ALL work together to push the right parties for the seats. I believe this can work.

  9. goulashman says:

    I’ll sign off now – until future developments may put us in touch again. But thanks so much Rev for everything and also to you so many commentators for your passion and principle. Cheers. Keep heart.

  10. Wp says:

    Have these videos of the vote tampering etc. any credence? Not wanting to sound paranoid but the surprising low turnouts in Glasgow and Dundee and the unexpected vote from Clackmannan could be explained. Not looking for an excuse, but the polling booths had just closed and they were all suddenly confident of a no win before one vote had been counted. Until someone can tell me they are fake or I’m not seeing them correctly then I’m a bit uneasy.

  11. John McLeod says:

    Stuart: just wanted to add my heartfelt thanks and appreciation for everything you have done, with such imagination, energy and intensity. I hope you decide to rejoin the campaign at some point, and in some role, even if only to pass on your skills to others.

  12. Nana Smith says:

    So they play for time…

    Labour is calling for a constitutional convention?? Wipe the tears from your eyes #VoteYes – this could be huge. And because of you.

  13. handclapping says:

    And of course the NHS was set up to patch up workers to get them back to work not to keep those unable to work alive so anyone getting the State pension doesn’t get the NHS but you can choose which.

  14. Paula Rose says:

    I wondered about SIP – but I want the whole bottle.

  15. Rock says:

    “And whatever happens, we owe you, our incredible readers, thanks that can’t adequately be expressed in words.”

    And we, your readers, will never forget your enormous contribution to the cause of Scottish independence.

    We haven’t lost – we have been cheated of victory.

    In many comments, I had warned that the British establishment must never be underestimated – they are NOT idiots or clowns.

    All of us here wish you a well earned rest but urge you not to give up hope. Led by yourself, we will continue to expose the lies and dishonesty of the people in whose clutches we still remain.

  16. liz says:

    I know there is a lot of anger out there but there is no point in blaming the people who tried.

    The folk to blame are the 3 unionist parties, the liars within them and you know who you are, the MSM and the BBC.

    Now that I’ve stopped crying these are my thoughts:

    I now think the SNP should resign on mass and say we can no longer protect all you folk who have been benefiting from our excellent policies – let’s face it,the folk who use food-banks haven’t benefitted, and trigger an election.

    Some stupid bitch on twitter said I voted No but as long as I get my free tuition I don’t care – make them pay.

    The SNP have been too good in protecting folk from WM worst policies, I now say, expose them to all of it.

    And the 45s – yes I am up for a badge – can regroup under another party – independence or nothing.

    We wont win by being nice- the Irish know that.

  17. Mattyboy says:


    First time commenter here.

    I think as well as the engagement and belief we all had it’s been a wonderful experience as well reading your’ site over the last couple of years. I know it’s probably taken up a whole lot of your’ time and I know you’ll be very much deflated after the result, as we all are, but I would encourage you to continue with the good work on a purely selfish level. Thanks very much for the contribution you’ve made and I think I can speak for the vast majority of readers that it’s been a breath of fresh air and a great alternative to the MSM.

    I’m sure we’ll get there in the end, probably not in my lifetime but surely in my childrens’.

    It still amazes me that we still have so may people in this Country (or region) that are living on the breadline and too entrenched in their belief of the union or are just too selfish to care.

    I’m afraid we were just too immature to take the risk.

    Maybe in another generation or two

    Keep up the good work

  18. BigSteveChisholm says:

    If Wings has taught us one thing, it’s the power of DIY.

    Make your own ’45’ or ‘Don’t blame me’ badge, send it to a printer, run off a hundred and give them to your mates. Cheap as chips.

    Or make a PDF, stick it on PDF Archive, spread it far and wide. Sample ’45’ here –

    The file is 50mm x 50mm and scaleable to suit your needs; any printer worth his salt will know what to do with it.

    Heartened to see lots of defiant YES badges in Leith this morning. Bruised, not beaten.

  19. Edward says:

    Already the unionists are not agreeing to a timetable, what a surprise!
    Just watched Sky News. Cameron looking at completing proposals by St Andrews day for ‘all the nations of the uk’

    While Sky News receive an e-mail from Milliband stating that Labour are looking at the autumn of 2015

    On a separate point , I think it would be good to press home the Federal idea and copy exactly the Canadian model

    I have my reasons and if anyone is clever enough you will see why 😉

  20. Juteman says:

    Did anyone else watch the BBC coverage last night?
    I thought it odd that Ruth Davidson was able to say No was ahead on the postal vote. This was before midnight, and no postal votes had been counted.

  21. John Young says:

    Lesley-Anne well said but I think we should be sending ‘Yes’ MP’s to Westminster to represent the 45% without any splitting of the vote.

  22. liz says:

    And for the last time – FORGET electoral fraud it’s a distraction, it will not change anything and the next person that mentions it, I will call a troll.

  23. Paula Rose says:

    Work should go ahead on the constitution by people such as commonweal and all those other projects, do what we would have done with a Yes vote.

    Let us have a definite set of proposals for next time – including how we create our own currency etc.

    Come on – we’re Scots (I’m of the English variety) we have work to do!

  24. Hamilton says:

    I’ll happily pay for a weekly, monthly or annual subscription to Wings, it’d be an honour.

    We have seen what can be achieved – 45% of the Scottish community voted for the hope that YES has engendered and that needs to be articulated not abandoned. Wings and associated sites are the focal point for this movement; Yeah, we’re all sickened by the carpet-bombing state propaganda and the reaction of the majority of our compatriots to the fear and uncertainty it created, but we should not easily dismiss the 45% who did not waiver, who will not go away and who will not give-up. It needs a voice and in Wings and others we have found it.

    We re-group, we learn and we take the energy of the democratic debate in Scotland forwards. We target 2015 and we target 2016. The UK is on borrowed time and 45% of the people of Scotland think so too. The immediate fight has not been in vain, it has enlightened, it has inspired and this experience will continue to direct us until the job is done.

  25. fred blogger says:

    i was listening to the land of our fathers then it hit me, emotionally.
    the crap we have had to endure has been unbelievable, experienced to be believed.
    and to gloating naws who didn’t realize we were fighting for them too, who don’t understand they have won a defeat, not an eefffing victory, the stupid fools.

  26. bunter says:

    Just joined a Facebook group called NO Red Tories. 600 members so far and I note that some SNP Msp’s have joined as has Lesley Riddoch. Looks like a new campaign has begun.

    Has to be said, not one serving SLab MP or MSP could find it in them to come out and support Scotland’s right to its independence.

    Lets pay them back in 2015.

  27. Edward says:

    One other point
    Can someone look at the cross country polling that RIC undertook and compare figures against the referendum polling figures.

    Would be interesting to see if there is much in the way of ‘discrepancies’ in the light of alleged ballot fraud

  28. CognitiveBurp says:

    We are down for now but it wont last. We might all have to vote SNP to keep hope alive. Anyone know when we can have another referendum?

  29. Tom Foyle says:

    Thank you Stu.

    Spilling tears reading the comments.

    All those saying, next time, we’re not finished yet, keep fighting, etc., you just don’t get it, do you? There isn’t going to BE any next time. Scotland is finished. There’s no point fighting because there’s nothing to fight for.
    Everything that’s good about Scotland will be stripped away by westminster. IF there’s a next time, there’ll be nothing left. Yesterday was our ONLY chance, and we lost. Like the bitter bastards said, “forever is a long time.” Now we get to find out how long is forever.

    Even if WoS continues, it’ll more than likely be banned by some new legislation outlawing “nationalistic publications” or some fucking nonsense. There is no reason for Stu to keep knocking his guts out like he’s been doing all this time.
    Whilst he proved that many Scots are strong, he also showed that most are weak and uncaring. So I agree. Fuck ’em.

  30. Lesley-Anne says:

    Oops I forgot step four in my last post.

    When Cameron has his E.U. referendum we should, in my view all vote OUT of the E.U. FUCK them. (thousand apologies for wee sweary there. 😉 ). WE all know that, apparently, the majority of folks Dan Suff want out, or at least that is what they keep telling us. So why don’t we give Cameron what his beloved England wants … OUT OF EUROPE! Not only will it be a case of two fingers up to Cameron but also two fingers up to the NO voters from last night. Let’s not forget the vast majority of them will undoubtedly want to stay IN Europe. Well FUCK EM I say. They have screwed my life up once too often time I started screwing their lives up!

    Oh whilst we are all waiting to get organised to get our “I’m a 45%er” badge there is a Facebook page for all of us 45%er’s. 😛

  31. bunter says:

    Wings, Bella ,WGD and Bateman etc, should all get together and produce a publication that we can all subscribe to and could be the start of a Scottish based paper of sorts. Potential 1.6m subscribers out there.

  32. Sita says:

    Hi Stuart,

    I just wanted to say that your site has helped me hugely through the last few months, and never more than today when I feel so… just so empty. Thanks you very much.

    Wishing you and all of us the best (whatever that may be)

  33. YESGUY says:

    Last night was one of the most emotional episodes in my life and believe me i have had a few.

    I am ashamed that empty promises will mean more food banks

    I am ashamed that so many did not turn out in the city’s

    I will never support any Scottish teams or players in sport and have had enough of my own folk who lied to all of us. I took 17 people to vote yesterday. How many voted NO ???

    Today i will ignore the telly and prepare myself for what’s coming and i’m scared.

    I am one of the disabled and i have another work assessment on the 25th. No doubt be forced onto something or sanctioned.

    If so , i lose my broadband. The pc is the only way i can keep in touch with most of my friends.

    I will watch out for Wings over the next few days and see what will happen but i don’t think things will move quickly enough for me.

    I’ll finish with a huge thank you to all Wingers. You have become my closest and trusted friends, allies and carers . you gave me hope even if it only lasted a wee while.

    Now i see only a desperate future. For so many. We will never be aloud to do this again.

    Take care of each other Wingers.

    I leave you with my heartfelt thanks.

  34. Robert Kerr says:

    Thank you Stu. Take time off and let’s see what the future brings.

    WoS may go dormant for a time but I shall keep checking. As long as I live or until you unequivocally terminate.

    Thank you everyone.

  35. Rookiescot says:

    Seems to me a lot of people are asking themselves “What was the point?”.

    Think of this though. We almost pulled off the biggest single shock to the elite in the history of the UK.

    When I got interested in the debate YES support stood at around 25%. Back then I was a NO supporter.

    Without sites like Wings, Bella, NNS and Wee Ginger Dug I would probably still be eating my cereal. Still being fed the shite by the MSM.

    So in that respect it has been worth it. You guys gave us the truth.

    I will also add this is not over. The genie is out the bottle. This is our Dunkirk moment. We lost the first battle but the war goes on.

  36. Kenny says:

    Three *tiny* pieces of consolation for me:

    1. My home city of Glasgow voted for independence. If we are ever free, I vote Edinburgh is stripped of its capital status, which it has not deserved for over 200 years anyway.

    2. As I write, a spider is descending towards me from the ceiling on its web (I love spiders and never brush away their webs). Never forget the tale of Robert the Bruce.

    3. It is always darkest before the dawn; we do not know the future and strange things happen precisely when you give up completely — this has happened to me on many occasions.

    However, I am disgusted at my fellow citizens. They are NOT Scots! How can you vote for higher house prices when there is still ONE foodback in the country and ONE child in poverty in an oil-rich nation?? Let alone one in four children in poverty?

    What is wrong with people? The brainwashed from birth republics of the Soviet Union voted for independence, they entered the world with nothing, no pensions, no institutions.

    I feel so sorry for all those who have done such a sterling job. In some unsullied part of our nation, a monument should be raised to the likes of Tommy Sheridan and the Radical Campaign who worked selflessly for months and months. It is only they and we who are SCOTS.

    For now, I think our national anthem must only consist of two lines:
    Those days are past now
    And in the past they must remain…

  37. ChrisB says:

    We need Wings or something like it to continue.

    Anyone care what other countries are saying?

    From a report in Le Figaro:

    “A lesson in democracy…” “it is “a relief for Europe”… “a warning for the pyromaniac Cameron and his centralist, antisocial policy”.

    “You don’t go opening the Pandora’s Box of European fragmentation [when] you know that other regions want to leave their countries.”

    …”this was an exemplary referendum, with a high level of participation”… “It was the culmination of a campaign of very high quality, with a calm climate of debate. The good way in which the result was accepted was exemplary.”

    “…proof of the wisdom of the Scottish people. “The victory of the “No” side puts the brakes on a new and dangerous phase in the process of fragmentation of nations which certain foreign powers and lobbies within the EU are encouraging…”

    Rather naïvely optimistic report in German alternative left “taz (die Tageszeitung)” newspaper. Headlined “Cameron’s Hell” it emphasises that Dave’s backbenchers will make his life hell when he tries to deliver on the promises. Yeah, sure.

    It concludes: “The close result has strengthened Scotland’s position considerably. To that extent, the Scottish separatists’ campaign has not been in vain”.!146263/

  38. thingy says:

    Tim @ 2:06

    And where was the proposed stash for the nukes, Tim? In case you don’t know, the subs don’t carry them all at the same time.

  39. dennis mclaughlin says:

    as soon as i saw the twisted face of Murphy last night before the East Renfrewshire count had even started, i knew this whole thing was rotten to the core.

    the Rev Stu needs some R & R, i believe we all do to recover from this shocking slap in the face.

    What about an alliance between the YES Collective and the SNP as a political movement?,does anybody think that this could be effective in fighting the battle on behalf of the 1.5 million voters left disenfranchised?.

    I will NOT be throwing away my Wings Over Scotland badges away!.

  40. lochside says:

    Rev Stu. thanks for your herculean efforts over the past three years. I can understand your disallusionment but urge you to reconsider.

    In 1979 we got conned big time and then the Tories raped Scotland. We need to use the organisation built up by you and the Yes movement to coordinate a sustained defence and ultimate counter-attack on these neantherdals.

    The option of switching off is death to our nation. Remember 45% of us voted yes. We can still bring some of the naïve and feart into the fold if we remain united and undefeated.

    Please come back and lead the attack on these machine men of neo-lib capitalism, we need you in our darkest hour!

  41. scottish matters (@ochayethenews) says:

    Stu, your contribution to people’s political awakening is inestimable. I hope that you see the potential in the yes movement, because it needs you to reach its potential. After your rest, come back and set up a subscription-based Wings, we will all support you to help educate generation yes. I’d like to make sure the wee blue book is delivered to every home in Scotland, so that people can realise the gravity of their no vote. Don’t want you to feel pressured, but the fights not over, a generation away, a little more battered and bruised no doubt, but free. Yes, one day. Free.

  42. Dr Jim says:

    Truth was a casualty
    Scotland was a casualty
    If we are to accept lies, deceit and fear are to be entertained as “CAMPAIGN RHETORIC” then all is to be forgiven after,then i must say “NO”, and “WINGS”, you have the tools to take it forward, your work for the people of scotland has been outstanding

  43. Cassandra Lee says:

    Like the rest of us here, I’m totally gutted by the result. But we can’t just go away and forget about it. I’ve taken tremendous inspiration from all the hard work you’ve done, Stu, please don’t give up – we need you to hold these bastards to account; expose the lies and tell the truth. Have your well earned rest but come back here and carry on. Perhaps we underestimated perfidious Albion this time. Next time we won’t.

  44. archieologist says:

    Stu you have done a great job and invested so much of your being into fighting the might of the British Establishment and its Press barons in the cause of Scottish Independence.

    Wings in particular has given a voice to the nationalist movement amid the hostility of the MSM . Scotland needs Wings to continue , to act as a voice for nationalists and a forum where ideas and issues can be discussed and the British Political parties and press can be held to account.

    Take a well earned rest, reflect where we go from here, but carry on the fight !

  45. Andy smith says:

    I am now 58 years old,you could float a battleship on the tears I have shed for this country in all that time.

    But today has to be the worst ever,and you are right stu, a bunch of fucking cowards allied to some of the most ignorant people you could ever meet,have let us down.

    I doubt now that’ll I’ll ever stand in a free Scotland, and it breaks my heart to even say it.
    But I’m not giving up the fight,and I hope you stick around to continue all the fantastic work you’ve done for us.
    Love to everyone for all your comments!

  46. Gavin says:

    A map of the voting pattern

  47. The selfish, cowardly & gullible have won for the corrupt.

  48. ewen says:

    This morning I was in a red hot rage but now it has been nurtured into a wee ball of scunneredness.
    I will be boycotting all the no firms and media outlets. I will be getting ready to counter the smug no voters and I will hold my head up high.

    I won’t be supporting Scotland in sport. The majority of voters have voted against a separate Scotland so why have pretendy symbols of nationhood.

    I hope the SNP resign an masse and give Lamont and the other numpties control. Why should those selfish no_body’s have the protection of a party that cares about Scotland? Let them have the full onslaught of UK benevolence.

    Everyone who voted Yes, hold your head up high. You are the ones who care about Scotland. You have no shame, only regret.

    All the Toom Tabard no voters…you are Scotland’s shame.

  49. Fiona says:

    bunter says:
    19 September, 2014 at 11:12 am
    71% of 16 & 17 year olds were YES and 73% over 65’s were NAW. So those that have had a long life and nice pensions sold out the future of the young.

    Anyone up for lobbying Scot Gov to give pensioners full on UKOK, ie nae free prescriptions, nae free travel and nae free personal care.

    Its what they voted for innit!

    I do not now how you can say who voted which way. But I do know that a great many people who post on this site are over pensionable age and have fought for independence for decades in some cases. Do you seriously wish to take revenge on a group. To me that kind of thinking is the definition of prejudice and stereotyping. And it is the victory of divide and rule. Setting the generations against each other is part of the neoliberal strategy just as much as setting people against muslims or the poor is.

    What claim have we left to civilisation if we follow your recommendation? Be careful you do not become your enemy

  50. hetty says:

    Tom Foyle

    You are I think, sadly correct Tom, there will be no chance to make change in Scotland for a very long time, my kids will most likely leave to go to NZ or we were talking Holland, who knows. The one suggestion that made sense was to keep up anything that supports and affects the poor of our country. Maybe a fund, I know more charity but the ones existing now will go under in next couple years as they have in NE England etc. People need support in some way and empowerment.

    ok see you all later…must sleep

  51. Now's the Hour says:

    For some reason this quote is buzzing around my head:

    “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.” – Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

  52. Chris Baxter says:


    Do those who voted No now realise what they have effin’ done?

    They don’t. But they will. Oh, they will.

  53. castle hills chavie says:

    Seems my first post has disappeared, so I’ll try again.

    Rev, whatever you decide, I think everybody will back you, but I really hope you stick with it.

    You really need a couple of weeks in the Maldives, sans computer and as others have suggested, crowd funded. We are all a little tired, we’ve all given a lot to the campaign.

    In fact I’m going to bed now, as I’ve had 3 hours sleep in the last 36.

    Just wanted to put out a special thank you to Bob Sinclair, who was a legend for Wings at the Glasgow count.

    Scotland didn’t lose, we just didn’t win.


  54. Stevie boy says:


    Good post.

    I agree completely with u. The SNP have did an amazing job in protecting as many people as possible from poverty and cuts, not forgetting the dreaded bedroom tax. Yet the people have wimped out of backing them to run our complete affairs.

    For me the SNP can’t win now, even if they get back in, which I imagine they might well, they will undoubtedly have to implement excessive cuts and/ or severely raise taxes.. all because Westminster got us into this ridiculous state, over decades, WITH oil!!

    The SNP will end up having the legacy of the most unpopular government in history, maybe even worse than the Tories!!

    I agree with you Liz. Why wait til then? Why not resign just now citing the overwhelming bias of the British establishment and the lack of democracy.

    I know it’s too late now but the world would then see just how ‘Great’ Britain isn’t so great after all.

    Maybe it’s a bit extreme but I can see now how some extremists and terrorists do target Britain.. because what they stand for is shocking.

  55. BigSteveChisholm says:

    Another ’45’ badge. This one doesn’t look like ‘It’s my birthday, 45 today’!

    Short link:

  56. Anne says:

    Have never posted here but have been inspired when reading this site. There has been a new political awakening in Scotland not enough to win our independence but very close we mustn’t let this momentum whither – agree with comments re SNP MPS it must be ensured that Labour never get a seat at Holyrood or WM from a Scottish vote i.e. They are consigned to history -that can be one short term goal the longer term is to get another referendum

  57. Tartan Tory (John Clark) says:

    I was at the Angus count as the Referendum Agent for Wings over Scotland. I was there from 8pm, resplendent in my kilt, parading around full of pride and full of hope. By 3am, I was outside greetin’ and not ashamed to admit it.

    I am ashamed however, of the 55%. Many of them don’t have a clue what they’ve done. Some of them just don’t care. They are too wrapped-up in their cosy world of self-indulgence, greed and credit scores. Whether you think we should be easy on them or not, their ignorance has cost us our country. Their ignorance is their fault too, because they couldn’t be bothered enough to find out.

    My kilt came off when I went to bed at 6.30 and I can’t see when I’ll put it on again. I feel like a stateless refugee and I’m spontaneously bursting into tears with alarming regularity. Anyone who thinks we’ll see this chance again is deluded. Westminster will not allow another referendum like this, so long as there’s oil flowing. Scotland died last night. We are not a country. RIP.

    One final thing I would like to add. My experience of this event from a Referendum Agent perspective has been an incredible eye-opener. I am sad to see people who think there may have been ‘issues’ at the counts. I took my duties very seriously and have nothing but praise for the integrity of ALL the council staff who were involved. I can’t speak for every region, but I can tell you for certain that there was no council sanctioned rigging of the vote in Angus. I don’t believe that there was any dodgy dealings in ANY area.

    Much as we might like to find a scape-goat to blame, we must reluctantly accept that it was our friends, relatives and neighbors who were responsible for the deed last night.

  58. Whilst the result was bitterly disappointing both here in West Lothian and throughout the country, we await events unfolding. Let’s continue to build towards our next opportunity, starting with the General Election next year. Is this a means of getting re-organised?

  59. John McG says:

    Well I was hoping that today would be one of the best days of my life, a joyous one, a day of rejuvenation and the start of a new dawn and ultimately a different type of society in Scotland. An exciting day, where I would be lucky enough to be around at the birth of a new, independent country.

    But no……the people of Scotland were given the chance to stand on their own two feet, make their own decisions, set their own destiny and forge their own future…..but decided that, you know what, they would rather not bother and leave London in ultimate control. Just continue with a set up that is not fit for purpose in the modern world. They chose to leave Scotland as a parking lot for America’s nuclear weapons, chose not to use money from our many natural resources to plough into education, NHS and social regeneration.

    Most people just sleepwalk through life, taking the path of least resistance and behaving in the ‘little people’ way that around 2000 men in London – who run the government, the judiciary, the businesses and everything else – want them too because it allows them to continue to line their own and their mates pockets with our money.

    It completely depresses me, I was walking home from the pub last night and wondered how many of the houses I passed with the lights off (literally and metaphorically) contained people who had gone out to vote no purely to protect their own little semi-detached two kid world. Looking at the passengers on the bus this morning, all meekly sitting there, brain dead plugged into their mobile phones, reminded me of (as Del Amitri had it in their song) the ‘doped white mice in the college lab’.

    On a positive note however, I’ve never experienced anything like the buzz of the last few weeks and the engagement of everyone in Scotland has been something to behold. The Westminster elite know now that we are on to them, and England and Wales appear to have woken up too, so perhaps change will come, the trouble being of course it’s got to get through the present Westminster system first. By the time these changes are made Scotland could be operating under the umbrella of a Tory/UKIP coalition and face being taken out of Europe in a referendum in 2017. Where will Scotland be then? Well and truly ******, with Boris probably the PM to add insult to injury. I hope no-one who opted to vote ‘no’ yesterday and will have the guts to admit in future has the audacity to complain. And it won’t be good enough to say ‘Oh when I voted no I was voting for change actually’ because there were, there are, no guarantees in that. The only guarantee of real change was in voting ‘yes’.

    Right now I’m clinging to the hope that things might change for the better (but been here before with new labour in 1997 and the problem isn’t what the current system can or can’t do it’s the very presence of that system in the first place itself) but feel completely demoralised and even ashamed of my country for not having the balls to see this wonderful opportunity through.

    Yes I know I’m one of the little people in my wee house with two kids and yes I know that me banging on like this is very much a first world problem (diddums, you lost in a democratic vote and no-one got shot and the vote wasn’t rigged etc) but the reality is today I feel completely and utterly devastated. It’s some comfort though to know 1.6 million of us feel like me and that Scotland’s largest city, Glasgow, voted yes – and it helps too that that everyone I admire in the arts world, and every single politician, writer, singer, newspaper journalist I follow and go and see voted the same as me. They’re the good people. The kindred spirits. They get it.

    The rest? Asleep at the ‘I’m alright Jack’ wheel mostly.

    In time I hope I can forgive them.

  60. Kilty says:

    There’ll be a rally in George Square tonight for all who can make it, we’ll be advocating a recount/revote due to the video evidence of electoral fraud.

  61. Chris Baxter says:


    I won’t be supporting Scotland in sport. The majority of voters have voted against a separate Scotland so why have pretendy symbols of nationhood.

    I hope the SNP resign an masse and give Lamont and the other numpties control. Why should those selfish no_body’s have the protection of a party that cares about Scotland? Let them have the full onslaught of UK benevolence.

    Everyone who voted Yes, hold your head up high. You are the ones who care about Scotland. You have no shame, only regret.


  62. Tom Foyle says:

    Now’s the hour:

    Yamamoto was shot down 500 miles out to sea by US P-38s.
    Scotland HAS awoken a sleeping giant. westminster will crush us like a grape for daring to raise our voices.

  63. stuckinoz says:

    I’ve follow this site for a long time but have never posted a comment.

    One of the main obstacles for the yes campaign has been fair and balanced representation in the media. Is there any eau wings over Scotland couke evolved into some sort of broadcast station to counter the BBC bias?

    I have no idea what the complexities or technical expertise required or funding needed, but if the seeds are down for this now then by the time the next referendum comes around (whenever that may be) there could be an independent neutral TV station available to broadcast fair and honest information to the people of Scotland

    Anyway I’ll go back in my box – just thought I’d throw it out there as an idea for stu when thinking about what is next for wings

  64. K1 says:

    Still seeing a lot of Yes windows in the west end, still wearing my yes badge. Very muted atmosphere everywhere, you can feel it. How was this possible?

    Bewildered is the general feeling I think, a kind of ‘shock’ effect to our collective psyche. This isn’t finished.

    Take your time Stu, I will still be keeping my standing order going.

    The Lion is wounded, but not mortally.

    Well done my lovely Glasgow, Dundee, North Lanarkshire, West Dumbartonshire.


  65. Cag-does-thinking says:

    I had decided not to post today. That combination of anger and disappointment leads to all kinds of fractions in movements which are strong otherwise. However I thought it was time to say thank you for the site and the skilful way that you and indeed all of us “Cybernats” conducted the campaign in the last couple of years. Had I been posting a few hours ago my rant would probably have mirrored yours. Now I can see a bit through the disappointment. Where are the No parties? Who is joyful about the defeat of a popular movement? Why is the country I am walking through today stunned and quiet? I can accept that there are a lot of people who voted No and are ashamed they did. They should be too. But just as it was almost impossible to find a collective of No voters before the day, so there seems to be far more crowing by English diehards than any Scottish ones. I can accept people were No voters out there. It just seems that “silent majority” is particularly silent. That doesn’t tally with every other camapign I have witnessed anywhere in the world.

    When I was at the bank today I spoke to the young teller behind the counter and she said she’d had a bad night’s sleep. Her five year old had crawled into bed with her because he’d had a bad dream. I told her that he wasn’t alone, we all had a bad dream last night.

    When the dust settles I hope you keep the site going. You are a very skilled journalist and in a world which is fatally compromised at every turn it was refreshing to come here and find support on a daily basis. Remember 45% at least voted so a sizable chunk of Scotland can give you hope for the future.

    I do think though, come the next big international, those of us who are patriots don’t sing. Our silence should be our statement of our mourning for our nationhood.

  66. goulashman says:

    Sorry to return: but the son of a Yes voting friend mine asked, “Will the time come when you can go prision for not being a Tory?” Naive – but scarily prescient.

  67. liz says:

    @Fiona – I’ve never heard that before but it sums it up perfectly.

    @bunter- I’m not on FB but I will join for that.

    How do you go about it.

  68. Rock says:

    Ironically, it the SNP government which has given the ‘best of both worlds’ to the older generation, so many of whom have voted No so selfishly.

    As I have said in previous comments, the SNP should really remove itself completely from politics for 5 years or so and let the unionist parties deliver their promised jam.

    Let Johann Lamont’s cuts commission get to work as soon as possible. Let there be prescription charges, means testing and tuition fees. Bring them on.

    We will all suffer the consequences, but then no country has ever won independence without suffering.

    One often has to suffer bitter medicine to get back to health.

  69. gavin lessells says:

    Just ordered up 200 badges proclaiming “I VOTED YES” to stick in their faces. If they want to know why I will be happy to tell them.
    200 cost £60 from Wee Badges (find them on Google.)

  70. Chris Baxter says:

    I do think though, come the next big international, those of us who are patriots don’t sing.

    Which is against England. How fucking embarrassing is that going to be?

  71. Margaret says:

    Thanks for everything . You have been
    brilliant .

  72. Norman Russell Vss says:

    Have a break Stuart but do get back into the ring, we, Scotland need you and all voices like yours!

  73. faolie says:

    Aye Stu, you’re right. We lost. And I can see why you want to go, because we’re not going to get another shot at independence now. That’s been put onto a very high shelf which we may never be able to reach.

    We should forget about it and focus instead on trying to create a federal UK with Wales, Northern Ireland and the big English regions.

    I think we’ve released a UK-wide devolution genie, for which there’s a tremendous latent support in the big conurbations in the north of England to counter London’s dominance.

    I believe that if they see that the Scots are no longer pressing for a split but instead want to support and join them, we could forge strong alliances with England and Wales to create a very powerful group that would be able to forge a truly federal Britain.

    But that ain’t going to happen unless we have a united Holyrood, with parties focussed completely on Scotland and its people, instead of doing what their London masters tell them to do. And the only way that can happen is to ditch the Labour and the Tory parties for new Scottish-based parties. (The old parties can still have their MPs but they will be for Westminster only.)

    We need Labour for Independence to form a proper, electable party to fight the Holyrood election in 2016. The Tories too, need to break from London, while the SNP, Greens and the SSP are already independent.

    We have the perfect moment now to ditch the London-based parties from Holyrood – why should they be there anyway? – and embrace devolution in a united Holyrood. That would be a very powerful parliament, and, as it wouldn’t be threatening a break-up of the UK, it would be able to form strong cross-border alliances that would be able to challenge Westminster.

    The chance for independence is gone, for a very long time at least, but that doesn’t mean that true devo-max can’t be achieved. And the key to that is a new Scottish-based Labour party. Creating these new, electable parties for the 2016 election is the work to be done now.

  74. ailsa craig says:

    Jenni Adams,

    You brought me out of my misery [a little] with your message of hope for the future. Good for you and your vision of hope. I was really down, but after reading all the messages here, especially yours, I will be ready to fight another day, just that little bit sooner.
    This morning I was as gloomy about the future as my OAP, mostly feartie ‘NO’ friends, remembering 1979. You fair cheered me up. Thanks.

  75. Spout says:

    Wings has been a essential – thank you for all your effort.

    Hope you regroup and find inspiration to carry on and thereafter support whatever movement(s) emerges from the ashes of the Independence campaign.

    The Westminster establishment would like us to be atomised and cowed now.

    We should strive to be the opposite.

  76. Calgacus says:

    There are 1,600,000 of us. It’s a start

  77. Elizabeth says:

    I’ve just signed up to No Red Tories…let’s get em.

  78. big jock says:

    With you Chris. Support Partick Thistle not Scotland. Can’t do the kid on stuff anymore.

  79. tombee says:

    This is a dark dark day for me and 45% of the Scottish people who think like me. We shared a dream which has now been shattered. A dream that our society could have been made free and fairer. A dream of brighter horizons for all of our people. It was not to be.

    In the grey light of dawn we had to accept that all the efforts to persuade enough of our countrymen and women to accept that what we believe in was worth the effort to achieve. Sadly they didn’t share the dream with us.

    I have to mention that one of the events which will live with me about this experience is connected to the remarks of President Barrack Obama. That he thought that Britain should stay “United ” and remain an ally on his free country. A country that fought and bled in a war to free itself from “BRITISH” rule. He, in his remarks tended to imply that we, the Scottish people, were not to be entitled to that same freedom, even though it would have been achieved by merely marking cross on a piece of paper.

    What makes it all the more poignant though, is he is a black president of a country that for decades treated men and women of his race as undeserving of equality. To recall the struggle they had to endure for their freedom makes what he remarked upon all the more galling. He would have been better advised to keep his remarks to himself and I hope he reflects upon them today.

    I today feel empty and despondent. I cannot see where we, the 45% who desired independence, go from here. I only see a continuation of a state indifferent to the needs of the poorest and week in our society as they, themselves,feed from the trough of privilege.

    I’ll conclude by thanking all those who worked so hard to bring about a fairer society. Their efforts should not go without the recognition that they fought a good fight against overwhelming odds railed against them by an outrageous biased media and a lying Whitehall establishment who were hell bent on frightening the life of out fellow citizens, all 55% of them. AND IT WORKED.

  80. kininvie says:

    There’s a lot of despair floating around Twitter and even on here. Everyone short on sleep and long on emotion.

    But this is not Flodden. We have not left our leadership dead on the battlefield nor our country shorn of purpose.

    We have not given the FM the mandate for independence. But there’s little doubt that with the voice of 45% of Scotland behind him he does indeed have a mandate to demand what is best for Scotland now.

    We need to get back on the front foot. Waiting for the three stooges to dish up their bowl of watery gruel disguised as new and important powers is not the way to go.

    In the name of the 45%, the Scottish government must now demand the devolution of the policies that Scotland needs most. Let’s steer well clear of piddly powers over bits of tax. Let’s just reject them. Let’s demand control of energy, aviation, the crown estate, and broadcasting policy for starters..

    We won’t get them of course. But once we are back in the old game of seeing Scotland’s legitimate demands being knocked back by Westminster, we can start moving forward again.

  81. Kenzie says:

    Far from advocating turning the other cheek I think we should never forget who our friends are. Don’t let them see that their gloating affects you because then they have won, in every sense.

    I hope this site continues to be a focal point for all those who feel disenfranchised today. Apples will grow again. We are not a region, we are a Nation; let’s act like one. This is just the end of the beginning.

    Lesley-Anne had it spot on with her idea that come the election in 2015, we let the government/establishment know, in no uncertain terms, that we are still here and are going nowhere.

    Let us not fall into the trap of recrimination, let us pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and start all over again.

    I am a severely disabled ex-soldier. I know what it’s like to keep trying when all seems lost but it’s all in the mind. Keep thinking positively. Believe.

  82. Tom Foyle says:


    After our texts this a.m., I did actually fall back asleep. And woke up not long after because of the most godawful nightmare, something that hasn’t happened in over 50 years.
    There’s no point fighting any more, lass, we will NOT be given another chance. westminster will ensure that. I’m expecting a raft of legislation that will see such sites as this made illegal, the SNP declared nationalistic and either banned or marginalised like the BNP for racism – utter bollocks, of course, but we know what they’re capable of – and the north sea assets being redefined as English. IF we ever get a referendum for independence again, it will be for a country with nowhere near enough resources to support itself. Even Whiskey will very likely be under English control.
    We taught them a lesson – one that they’ll learn from. Yesterday was our one shot, and we missed.

  83. stonefaction says:

    Yesterday I voted for a positive future for my country.
    That hope has been dimmed but not extinguished.
    Today I am S.A.D.
    Our time will come.
    Keep on believing.

  84. V. Carson says:

    I woke up to find I was now North British, and all hope of a better future in this region was now lost. Good luck getting all those promised “powers”, whatever they may be.

    I will never vote again in my life.

    This was the final blow which started in 1746. Game over.
    As with Culloden, it wasn’t the English who beat Scotland,….it was the Scots.

    Anyway thank you to all on this website, and all in the YES campaign, and all in the SNP. I have been dreaming of independence for 40 years, and now it cannot be reached, I feel numb.

    Thanks to Alex Salmond all the same, you gave me hope, and you gave us all a chance to reach our goal. It should be your statue in Glasgow, as the “father of the nation”.

    The only good thing I can say is my home town voted Yes, I belong to Glasgow. Thanks also to Dundee. That’s it. I’m done.

  85. Karen Donald says:

    A sorry , sorry day for Scotland and for those who wanted Independence.
    The mighty media and Westminster scared the weak into believing their lies.
    We fought the best campaign , but we lost the battle.
    Wings played such a crucial part, it would be terrible for the 1.6 m to see it go . You were one of the few sites where truth and real journalism remained.
    How wonderful it would be to see it flourish in the future into the mainstream online paper for the 1.6 disenfranchised Scots . A place to go for real news, real articles , real research , real facts.
    Please don’t go.
    We have already lost a country.

  86. CRAIGthePICT says:

    We have lost a battle but we will win the war. 45% is huge considering what we were up against and we have a more politicised electorate as an experience. We have to learn everything we can from the experience.

    We need a daily newspaper (WoS?) there are surely many businesses that would back it and a passionate customer base that would subscribe.

    We need to take the BBC down, more protest, non payment and the Scottish Parliament demanding an official enquiry.

    Perhaps we needed this bittersweet experience to show us the path to victory.

  87. goulashman says:

    YesGuy. I have just read your post. First, thanks for your help on these threads when I needed it. I hope we can keep in touch through Wings. I hope you will be OK through that assessment. The impositions this vile Tory Westminster government are too cruel, too ugly for words. I will be thinking of you. I wish I could be of help. Once again, thanks so much for all your really thoughtful, helpful comments throughout.

  88. Clare Hay says:

    As an oldie,it was this site that alerted me to the campaign, not the SNP or anyone else. We all owe you so much, and the amazing level of yes vote in the circumstances, owes much to you. It’s enough to keep them worried and those 16/17 year olds are a demographic time bomb. Have a good break. Will keep an eye out to see if you are eventually resuscitated. With many thanks for all you’ve done

  89. Chris Baxter says:

    @big jock

    I’ll support United instead;-p

    Did any other club declare their support for Yes, by the way?

  90. R-type Grunt says:

    You’re a hero Stu, no question. Thanks for all your effort & you’re right, the truth was out there but too many Scots are cowards. It would seem that old people put their own pensions before the future of their grandchildren. Utterly shameful. Go and live a life Stu, you deserve it. Scotland died last night.

  91. Defo says:

    Is there a futures market for cranberry’s ? Pile in.

    To those who want to give up, leave even, think for a moment about your uppermost reasons for you wanting what has passed us by this time.
    Pride, National, or other is always personal, and right now is not the time to decide anything. What is hurt can be made better.

    Remember the Maryhill ring pull lady !

    I’m staying, and I’m not giving up, stuck by my main motivator, Love, which long ago trumped pride. Just the right side of fifty, and with three of my four kids still at school, and living mostly with their mum, the decisions come easier for me.
    My most pressing problem is WTF am I going to say to my three wee girls when we speak on the phone later ?
    The conversation with my much older son will be easy, by comparison. Only by comparison mind.

    Blame and recrimination are best put off, for further rumination too.
    A personal list of those who will not see a penny of my money again, is the raft my anger is clinging to right now.
    Silly thoughts of flames rising over PQ and such, are just that. Silly. We are the good guys remember. And anyhoo glass doesn’t burn 🙂

    Nothing more to say, except Love to all you good, good people of WoS, Yes & planet fucking Earth.

    Cheers Stu. It was a gas.

  92. David Stevenson says:

    The BBC Lie Machine keeps on rolling…..

    Robert Peston:

    The big question about the Prime Minister’s plan to hand more control over taxes, spending and welfare to the four nations is how far this would end the subsidy of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland by England, and especially by London and the South East.

  93. I am severely disappointed by the vote and we have two hopes left. rUK put through DevoMax where Scotland have devolved power over everything except Foreign Affairs and Defence. Or The Scottish people vote on wether to accept new powers offered by Westminster or move for Independence based on the powers offered. That is how it should have been done in the first place. Not voting on a potentially empty promise

  94. heraldnomore says:

    Miliband not going to play ball, apparently

  95. Jamie Arriere says:

    When the budgets cuts come, as we all know they will, my raw first reaction is that free personal care for the elderly goes.

    The auldies have made their bed, it’s time for them to lie in it, and pay for it.

    I hope this rawness fades…

  96. katsoft says:

    Thanks Stu your wee site has been a godsend these past many months. On the bright side support for Scotland’s independence started at about 23% in two years that almost doubled to 45%. Not bad when you consider the bias in MSM. At the moment we as Scots will have to live with this decision, I have to keep remembering 55% of us voted for a nothing package.
    Perhaps when free prescriptions, university fees and personal care are removed and the NHS Scotland goes the way Wales is already on route to, then those who voted no might just see how they were conned by lying London politians and an ex PM who got the usual suspects voting for the monkey in the red rosette.
    Cheers Stu, hope someday we might need your site again, go and enjoy the rest.

  97. Tom Foyle says:


    Don’t you get it? Scots can’t be fucking bothered. They couldn’t even support their OWN country, what makes you think they’ll be the slightest bit interested in forming alliances with others?
    Add to that the obvious terror of change, and you can forget about any new parties as well.
    Maybe in fifty years, aye, but by then there’ll be nothing worth fighting for.

  98. Tom Garrett says:

    Stu go off for a break but don’t stop, the 45 need a voice, we need a media we can trust. Don’t know if coming together with NewsnetScotland, Bella Caledonia and others is the way forward but not to have a voice distresses me!

  99. liz says:

    Now I know how the Rev feels – trolls who are banging on about electoral fraud this my last comment on this – set up your own fucking page and whinge on there.

    I also think WoS will be a banned website soon – they have been bigging up the cybernatz stuff – we will need to find a different forum and ban all trolls

  100. Neil says:

    Along with so many other fellow posters I have gone through a whole range of emotions in the past 24 hours – excitement, anticipation, nervousness, dread, sorrow, grief, anger, resignation. The prize of independence may feel today as if it is further away than ever – but as the dust settles I would like to think that we can reflect on a campaign where we gave it our all and none of us have the regret of “if only we did this or did that”.

    Dont walk away from the fight – the Westminster bullies with their gang of corporate hyenas and MSM lackies want us to disappear. Yesterday I felt for the first time ever we were on the cusp of something great – 1.6m people empowered to put a cross on a piece of paper in the hope of a fairer, better society.

    Who is going to lead the fight when the unionists renege on their promises rushed out prior to polling? Regardless of the motivation to spew forth such vows (panic? fear?) I knew the timetable for change was ambitious (to say the least) – now that this has morphed into UK devolution, we shouldnt have long to wait before the promises evaporate.

    If we can stay united and mobilised we can start re-building ahead of the next elections. Imagine the base of support we would have (1.6m to choose from) if the next Scottish elections are fought against a background of a Tory-UKIP coalition, exit imminent from Europe and a trail of broken promises on further devolution.

    A large part of me wants to say f**k it Scotland, you deserve what you get – but if we do, then who is going to stand up for our bairns, the disabled and the countless thousands who have been left behind? They didnt betray our country.

  101. Elizabeth says:

    Daughter has a cafe in Perthshire she says staff totally flat but she’s had to put up with a few gloaters amongst the customers.

  102. M4rkyboy says:

    Welcome to Scotchshire,England.
    Home of the fucking shitebag

  103. Cyc says:

    My pensioner dad, who voted YES, was a lifelong Labour supporter. I say was because he is never going to vote Labour again.

    A majority of our old folk may have sold us out but they did it based on the scares perpetrated by a party they trusted: Labour.

    Labour sold us all out.

    Like the Tories before them, their time in Scotland has come to an end.

  104. Jimbo says:

    There’ll be a rally in George Square tonight for all who can make it, we’ll be advocating a recount/revote due to the video evidence of electoral fraud.

    Don’t waste your time. There will be no re-vote, there will be no recount. The matter has been settled for the time being.

    Unionists are planning a celebration there. I think turning up there tonight is just asking for trouble and playing right into the hands of the biased MSM.

  105. Kirsty says:

    Tom Foyle.

    I get it fine but Scotland will always have her people; we make Scotland not anything else – without us she’s just mud and hills. We are what makes Scotland unique in the world and we are what will make Scotland in the future. The oil will dry up and will be used to shore up London/South East England while we’ll be called subsidy junkies, our industries have already been sold, more and more of our people will face poverty and sickness; we know that, but the sea and the wind won’t end until the end of the world. Nor will our creativity or our inventiveness. This is only the first round, there will be many more rounds to come but we’ll win in the end because we must. It’s that simple.

    We got 45%, that’s hardly a rout. That’s a huge amount given that the entire British establishment was against us – and they’re old hands at the game; we’re just new to it. Now, please, if people love Scotland and her people like they say you do, fight for her. We all need to down some paracetamol after last night’s excesses and then get back to the table and work out the next course of action. Please, don’t be a cliché or a stereotype; we are not chippy Jocks nor even people who snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, we were overwhelmed by propaganda, liars and cheats. This was the opening round. It’ll get harder from here on in but we’ll do it if we pull together. As a great man once said, “We must hang together or assuredly we’ll all hang separately.” Please don’t any of us give up, please!

  106. Kenzie says:

    Tombee – Now the establishment knows the strength of feeling in Scotland where before they could only guess. They had to use every dirty trick in the book – and some not thought of until recently – but they now know that if their half-arsed promises are not kept even their own will have the scales drop from their eyes and see that they are liars to a man and will turn against them.

    The Welsh will be next, then Yorkshire, then Northumberland then………ad infinitum.

    Things could be just about to get interesting.

  107. Murray McCallum says:

    Labour will now be doing their usual talking without actually saying, let alone achieving, anything.

    What a rotten heap. It can no longer be recycled.

  108. gillie says:

    The No campaign strategy was clear – SCARE THE OLD FOLKS.

    It worked. The Baby Boomers sh@t their breeks.

  109. Stevie boy says:


    Sorry I can’t put the link on here (hope someone else can) but please log into a petition to get a recount due to the evidence of vote rigging.. salmond

    It has over 40,000 signatures so far!!

    Has to be worth a try!! 820,000 Wings readers.. c’mon folks.

  110. Kenzie says:

    Well said, Kirsty.

  111. Christopher Dale Rogers says:

    Reverend Sir,

    Whilst I can but only mourn the loss of an independent Scotland, still born in a referendum result fuelled by fear, hate and the full propaganda apparatus of the UK State turned against it, hope still prevails. It prevails because the monkeys in Westminster will break all promises made to the Scottish electorate once it became apparent that the “Yes” campaign was making large in-roads is vast swathes of Scotland.

    We know how callous and cruel Westminster is and its ‘Unionist” legacy parties intoxicated with neoliberal economic orthodoxy that is toxic to the vast majority of those on the British mainland. Demographics are on Scotlan’s and the independence movements side, given how aged much of the electorate was that voted “No” to independence. Once the lies of Westminster, NuLabour, The Liberal Democrats and the Conservative Party are exposed in the coming months and years, the Independence movement will have legitimate cause for another vote.

    Now is not the time to give up hope, now is the time for one final heave within my lifetime I hope.

    I remain a true and loyal friend of all north of the border, and like many a Scot yearn for my own nation Wales to break its chains and dependency on Westminster charity. Like many posters I despise the defeatism of those who cannot think of any better way to govern ourselves, except suckle on Westminster and London’s tit. A tit that is offered with revulsion by the host who openly despises most of us and our folk.

    Yes I’m annoyed. Yes I’m shocked. Yes I’m pissed. But, they ain’t won and never will win in an equal fight, and this one was most unequal to say the least.

  112. Gavin says:

    I voted against devolution, against tax raising powers, against the SNP at every turn.

    These battles were all lost, but we have just won the war.

    United forever, BRITISH.

  113. gillie says:

    The AYE45 will not be ignored

  114. Robert Peffers says:

    @A. Mylchreest says:19 September, 2014 at 2:05 pm:

    “If Cameron moves towards a federal solution, presumably to placate England, then we need to quickly build alliances with all the other parts of the UK who are equally pissed off with Westminster.”

    Cameron has already signalled a few things. In his first two or three lines this morning he referred to the UK as, The Country”. That signals to me his intention is to continue with Westminster as the de facto parliament of England as the master race and Scotland Wales and N. Ireland as subservient region of England. He even hinted at devolve regions of England. He then went on to say that Scots MPs had to be prevented from debate or voting on what England decides are English only matters.

    Now, I’m 100% agreed that if the people of the United Kingdom wish to continue as a United Kingdom then that is fine, but only if the United Kingdom is treated as the Union formed by the Treaty of Union. That is only the two equally sovereign kingdoms with their names on the treaty document. That is The Kingdom of Scotland and the three country Kingdom of England. Each with a parliament and a federal union parliament above them both equal to both.

    Then if the Kingdom of England wants to devolve the Kingdom of England’s powers to English regions and annexed countries that’s fine. Thing is if his plan, and it seems it is, is to continue with Westminster as the COUNTRY of England parliament, (The master race), devolving the country of England’s powers to three subservient countries, (as it is just now), then we must fight him tooth and nail to prevent our Kingdom & country becoming a part of England.

    The United Kingdom is what it says it is A Kingdom. It is not a country, as Cameron constantly claims it is. It cannot be a country while Westminster continues to be the de facto Parliament of the country of England and also remaining the Parliament of the United Kingdom to the total exclusion of the only other partner Kingdom that signed the treaty that made the actual union.

    John Redwood was also on this morning and he was on about excluding the Scots from votes or debate over English only matters. Unlike Wales or N. Ireland we Scots are not part of the kingdom of England.

    There are two honest ways to deal with the present situation. One – split the United Kingdom into its component parts, that is – Example One, the two original Kingdoms that signed up to unite as a United Kingdom, (not a country but a Royal Realm). Or Example Two – Split the individual countries of the United Kingdom up as four countries in a federation and ditch the Royals to become a federal Republic of four countries. Anything else is England becoming the master race. We fought the NAZIs to prevent Europe coming under the heel of a master race.

    I’ll go down fighting if they attempt to continue with this pig’s breakfast we have now with Westminster the de facto Parliament of the country of England doubling up as the parliament of the United Kingdom and excluding Scots from dealing with English matters but Westminster’s 533 MPs doing as it likes with the 117 Scotland, Wales and N. Irish matters by outvoting them on all UK matters.

    There is no way any Scot should accept the present set-up with Westminster as the de facto Parliament of the country of England with Westminster lording it over the other three countries as the master parliament. If they want a parliament of England they are welcome to it but not as the master race at Westminster.

  115. Stevie boy says:

    We have been done out of our democratic right here!!

    .. including a 57% for Yes in Dundee after stating 71% looked likely to Yes then 2 fire alarms and down to 57%.

    Also a ‘turnout’ of 70% in both Glasgow and Dundee.. sounds a bit suspect to me!!

  116. graham simpson says:

    We are not finished. We should do now what we should have done before. Hold a non-binding referendum where only Scottish born persons 16+ who are permanently resident in Scotland for at least one year before voting date… can cast a vote. This would effectually nullify 400,000 NO votes by English born people, who ironically wish to stay in Scotland and enjoy the consequent benefits… yet oppose every effort towards our independence. A ‘fifth column’ if you like. The UK government cannot intervene but the result will be obvious and noteworthy world wide and give us a powerful bargaining tool.

    The yes vote is 1.6 million strong and this is a powerful resource from which to draw funds and support. WingsOverScotland, created and managed by a single person with great skill and success in both communications and crowd-funding should be an inspiration to us all.

    Through out the world we have at least 1.5 million native born Scots whose support value and future relationship… quantatively and qualitatively… should be examined and exploited with mutual benefit.

    The massive bias of the media particularly the print media should be recognised as an unhealthy presence in a democracy and should be addressed. Selective, rotating boycotts by 1.6 million YES voters will soon get their attention.

    There are many thing that we can do, as a huge grass roots organisation, outside of the conventional political arena… in addition of course to always voting for for an Independence Party in our Scottish Parliament.

    So Stuart Campbell… stick around… you are an aspiration to us all and we need people like you.

  117. I'veNeverSeenBraveheart says:

    I had to bite my tongue when my mum (who thankfully didn’t vote in the end) said: “People were probably like me, confused by all the scare stories. Now it seems there could be upheavals over these magic powers that have been offered, and it will make things worse!” I really wanted to say, what the fuck do you think I’ve been trying to tell you?!

    I’m sad because I’m now starting to think perhaps it would have been better not to have had the bloody referendum at all – it has made things worse, everybody is upset with everyone else, and now there probably will be a backlash against the SNP for “causing” all this (I don’t blame them, but I can see it being spun this way soon, to finish them off). Have we been too foolish??

    It kills me that we had quality journalism here, asking the questions the MSM should have been asking, yet still people had their fingers in their ears going “la la LA!”.

    It kills me even more that all those who worked hard with integrity, have to now sit and watch as the likes of Murphy, Alexander, Darling, Brown etc “negotiate” for us 🙁

    I can’t bear to switch on the TV or go on their websites – can someone update as to what is happening (or not?)

    Stu – thanks for everything. I’m another who would be happy to pay a monthly fee to keep the site going – we are going to need it in the next few months, but I understand if you have neither the energy nor the stomach for it anymore.

  118. David Stevenson says:

    Unsure of the provenance of this but:

    14:37: Ben Riley-Smith Daily Telegraph Scottish political reporter Ben Riley-Smith tweets: 72% of 16/17yr-olds voted Yes – more than any other age group. Polls got that completely wrong. Ballot extension didn’t ‘backfire’ on SNP.

    At the polling station I was at, there was a preponderance of pension age voters. You could smell the Naw off them. The younger elements, even from my age (51) down seemed much more sympathetic to Yes. Certainly, they were the people I got the best interaction from.

  119. Tom Dailly says:

    Good Luck
    Thank you Stu. We will need it.
    We are not all able to put in as much effort as the likes of yourself has done. Take a wee bit of comfort in knowing that if anybody played a blinder in this campaign you did.
    I hope you keep writing on Wings or something similar. If you do, I will keep on reading and contributing what I can. Sincerely, all the very best

  120. Tamson says:

    Gillie, a significant chunk of the No vote don’t WANT to know what they are doing. There’s a significant ‘anti-politics’, wilful blindness thing with many.

  121. Craig P says:

    There’s a gathering happening at the bottom of the Royal Mile in Edinburgh. It is low key so far but guess who is there. Yes supporters. The people who care about Scotland.

    It would be nice to see some No supporters as well to shake hands and share a dram with. But I guess they will all be at home glued to the BBC telling them how scared to be.

  122. DervalDam says:

    I was a count assistant, got home at 6am this morning feeling very low and tired, it was a long frustrating night. For those questioning the integrity of the count, or worse, the staff who were proud to be supporting over 87% of their fellow countrymen to exercise their democratic right – please don’t.

    I can assure you our local count was scrupulously above board and accurate. The direction was pretty evident from the start and it looks to me that our easily identifiable trends were reflected nationally validating the result.

    Yes, some of are incredibly disappointed, others are immensely relieved. Many of our young people voting for the first time took it particularly hard. Lets focus on the future for their and all our sakes. This is the start of a better tomorrow. We should be proud of ourselves.

  123. Stevie boy says:


    Is it possible to advertise the link to the petition to demand a recount?

    Everyone watching last night was taken aback by this.

    I’ve followed the whole campaign and last night just wasn’t right.. something stunk quite bad with it all.. and now today the evidence is all coming out.

    We have to do something here surely.

    Can the worlds media or press not be contacted as this clearly is do wrong!!

  124. JWil says:

    It should be interesting to hear what Lamont comes up with at FMQs when she now has no need to fill her time with attacks on Alex Salmond. She will have to start explaining what she will do for Scotland. She is now totally exposed.

  125. Quinie frae Angus says:


    I completely understand the feeling of utter bewilderment and scunnery.

    But I do agree with others above that although we have been royally shafted – yet again – we MUST regroup to fight again when we feel ready. But this time we’ll be much better prepared, with the benefit of much finer-tuned knowledge as to what exactly happened here.

    The Wee Blue Book was a fantastic resource. We know the extent to which having something in easily-accessible print format was a revelation to those who read it, but also a great psychological boost to US who at LAST had something tangible we could give to grannies, mums, lads – all the folk who are just NOT reading online politics sites with the addicted zeal that we all do.

    So I think we need to “up the ante” on the same theme. Someone above (sorry, I forget who) has already suggested that we need a weekly (or daily) printed digest of all the “Best of Wings, Newsnet Bella, Business for Scotland, Women for Indy” etc, a pamphlet-style newspaper, that can be put directly into the sweaty paws of the feart, the uneducated, and the naysayers.

    This will, of course need:

    a) Funding


    b) A distribution network.

    Just off the top of my head (and this particular head is woolly, unslept, hungover and traumatised, so please bear with me):

    What about seeing what we can do with all the money that we collect from our imminent mass withdrawal of our BBC licence fee? If we can get an Indie-go-go thing on the go, I bet you’ll get loads of scunnered Yessers signed up to giving the price of their licence fee for such a project.

    And as for distribution, well I am sure the Most Excellent WBB Rapid-fire Distribution Team can give us some ideas about that, but why not also tap into that great resource we have – Business for Scotland? There are more than 3,000 small and medium-sized businesses signed up to that, including hairdressers; beauty parlours; garages; factories where people work – all sorts. All sorts of places that ORDINARY PEOPLE REGULARLY GO TO. And each of these Businesses could have a wee box (called “The Wee Blue Box” containing copies of these pamphlets, that people can help themselves from. It would, in time become a recognised thing. That way the excellent writing that has flourished from our favourite pro-indy sites can be shared with a much wider audience.

    This is just a germ of a plan, Wingers but maybe we can get some legs on this in time for the next Referendum?!!

    Am I just trying to comfort myself with pie-in-the-sky ideas or does anyone have any thoughts on this?

  126. Stoops says:

    Just want to say thanks Stu. It’s been emotional.

  127. bookie from hell says:


    The saddest part of campaign for me was the demonization of AS,by MSM,45% is another solid base

    Unionists hav to deliver,ball is in their court

    one quote last night by AS was the date,march next year,before the UK election

    Scotland is lucky to hav a man like Salmond and Nicola will be a well chosen successor.

  128. Donald MacDonald says:

    Let us respect the old – 73% said naw! Let us encourage our young – 71% said YES!

    Let us move on – there is work to be done yet – we still are surrounded by those who need in a land of plenty! We have yet to figure why the elite barely had to “flex a muscle”?

    We are not stupid we are naif, the “NO Better Together” campaign showed us their cards and they still won the game?

    Thank you Stu – please stay around there is still a “card game” to play…

    Place your bets!


  129. Christian Schmidt says:

    Soo, close but not quite there.

    What next? Firstly, the ball is in the court of Gordon and the Vowers. The referendum, which started off as yes-no, with devo-max explicitly excluded, has turned into a yes/devo-max referendum. And that was always difficult to win.

    The problem of the Vow is of course that it is difficult to see how it can be implemented without finding a workable response to the West Lothian question. (Also, the whole idea of Barnett for ever is unfair on Wales, NI and northern England. And that all English money seems to go to London is unfair on everyone else.)

    Personally I can see only one workable solution – full federalisation. And because England is too big for the rest, this would mean separate assemblies and governments for southern, northern, eastern and central England (as well as London).

    Now there may be no appetite for that in England at the moment, but I’m pretty certain they would like it if they got it – a bit like Wales, which was very divided about an Assembly in 1997, but very much in favour of it now (despite the apparent lameness of so many of the politicians). But because of the lack of current interest in it, federalisation would require leadership. The Vowers have shown that, with their backs to the wall, they can do things (in this case agree on new Scotland powers) that they simply did not manage in the three years before. Will they be able to agree on a workable solution and implement it? That remains to be seen.

    But failure will surely lead to the breakout of the UK within the next 3-5 years. Because failure to implement the Vow means Scots will feel shafted, and failure to adress the West Lothian Question means the English will feel shafted. Triangulation won’t work anymore.

  130. heraldnomore says:

    Forget the counts in Glasgow and Dundee. They would never have made up the required 200k. Look at the map – it’s all friggin’ fuchsia. We lost in Moray, in the Isles, in Ayrshire and Angus and everywhere else.

    Be proud that we got 1.6m from where we were. Remember it started with the 2007 minority government and the opposition to every single proposal brought to the chamber.

    But it was not enough, and we remain shackled to the corpse. I have listened today to John Swinney and Derek McKay, quiet and dignified, able to leave aside the emotions that course through us all. We have changed the way the land lies, just not as much as we would have liked.

    I’m absolutely shattered by it, but conspiracy theories take us nowhere further forward, and ease the pain not one bit.

  131. muttley79 says:

    I think that there is a danger in letting the overwhelming disappointment and anger get the better of us. I think we really must beware of the dangers of the self fulfilling prophecy of withdrawing to the sidelines and retreating in disillusionment. We need to press the Unionists on the “vow” and more powers. Of course, we all know it is bullshit, but we need to highlight it, as it shows the absolute contempt the British state and its Scottish hangers on have for Scottish democracy and the democratic process here.

    There is a range of options the independence movement can deploy, and the most significant thing is that it is now a proper, broad based political movement. Before 2011 it was really mainly the SNP and other non affiliated independence supporters. The movement now consists of 1.6 million people in Scotland. We have to find a way of organising ourselves polticially, and co-ordinating and facilitating discussion on strategy and tactics in the years ahead of us.

  132. IcySpark says:

    The Catelonian referendum, which will be a Yes will reinvigorate us.

  133. Tony Sutton says:

    Stu, Many thanks to you and your Wings pals. Much respect and thanks for the WBB, just a shame that the country (or MI5?) decided otherwise. My teenage kids have had their torches lit up, they won’t go away, so if the UK don’t seriously reform, we’ll be back again in FORCE.

  134. heedtracker says:

    The NO vote is the elderly so how can it be right that they benefit from devo. It’s a ridiculous situation to be in but they have or start paying for a union they voted for. BBC etc are unstoppable now as they are going to get Labour back in power in Scotland so all those “freebies” are history anyway. BBC R4 lunchtime news was smiley face faascism in all it’s glory. They say NO win means the union is “cemented for a generation and/or more. ”

    So stick around WoS. The UKOK devo fraud has 3 months to deliver whatever it is NO voters decided made them safe and secure in the union.

  135. Kevin Evans says:

    Stop posting anger – am angry but they will use that vocal anger to grind u down even more – we know the new powers won’t happen – let them destroy themselves trying to promise there lies.

  136. James Caldwell says:


    Please reflect but don’t give up. This site and the WBB have been the only way of getting the facts across over the last few months as the Press, BBC and other Agencies gang up against the YES campaign.

    I turned 65 last week and when I entered the polling station yesterday morning I looked at the ballot paper and thought ‘This is what I have been waiting for all my life’. I nearly broke down in tears at that point.

    Today, like many others, I am devastated and the only good point was when I drove into Kilmarnock still displaying the saltire on my car and a young man waved and gave me a thumbs up sign as I passed.

    All is not lost and it may take years, possibly more years than I have left, but keep up the good work.

  137. Lesley-Anne says:

    Sorry I disappeared folks. In an attempt to cheer me up Fi, my partner, has got me signed up to this Facebook thingy, whatever the hell that is! 😛

    I’m now trying to figure out hoe to get around it.

    One thing I have just learnt though, and I apologise if someone has already posted about this, but apptrently the police are investigating voting irregularities/vote tampering. This is NOT just the 10 votes that SKY kept going on about last either I don’t think. See what you think guys and gals.

  138. Pentland Firth says:

    There’s a north German joke about two generals studying a situation map after a serious military setback which I think has relevance to many of the comments posted today.

    The first general, a southerner, shakes his head and exclaims “it’s hopeless, the situation is impossible”, only to be told by his Prussian colleague “Indeed, it’s impossible, but it is certainly not hopeless”. Let’s keep calm and try to be “Prussian” about last night’s setback.

  139. No no no...yes says:

    Sad day for Scotland. Sadder day if Wings ceases. We are all hurting, We cannot stop, lets all take time to rest,reflect and recover.We will prevail, we owe it to our future generations. Everything happens for a reason. It has been an exciting time, thank you all for your words, keep positive, it uses less energy and is better for your health!

  140. Tom Foyle says:

    Graham Simpson:

    What would be the point of a non binding referendum?
    And what about the English residents of long-standing who voted yes? I’m far from being the only one.
    We HAD powerful bargaining tools…and still we voted for continued slavery and poverty.
    The result is not the work of resident English, but of media manipulation and westminster lies.
    Perhaps your philosophy is that there are always casualties in war. And your attitude is EXACTLY that criticised by BT. Racist and nationalistic.
    Even though I’m fiercely pro-indy, and disgusted at the way Scotland has been ravaged by England/westminster, I couldn’t support your policies.

  141. Flooplepoop says:

    We have been slowed down today, we haven’t been stopped.
    We can use this power to try and get more SNP representation in Westminster, if we could get 40+ SNP members into westminster, we could start wielding some power.
    People were made afraid of Independence, so why don’t we start doing a work around and sneak in some Federalism.
    We have at least 1.6 million people eager for change,
    I think a large portion of the 2 million who voted No,could be swayed into working for the best interests of Scotland within the Union.
    It’s just an idea, i was angry, very angry today, i now want revenge, getting rid of Labour in Scotland would be a nice start.

  142. heedtracker says:

    It could Farage that brings the whole pack of UKOK lies down too. He wants no Scottish MP in anything English so Scottish MP’s will be barred from House of Commons certain days of week as England does it’s business. How long will Scotlsnd tolerate that farce?

  143. Clarinda says:

    8 people wanted to jump off a cliff to see if they died when they hit the rocks below. The other 2 members of the group told them they would die.

    The 8 didn’t believe the other 2 but two of them were unsure. So they decided to vote – 7 voted to jump and 3 voted against.

    The 7 jumped but as they jumped they took the other 3 with them as they realised too late what they had done.

    They all died.

    Democratic deficit anyone?

  144. Jimbo says:

    “The the bookies at the moment have Labour winning the 2015 general election but only by relying on the votes of Scottish MPs.”

    I don’t think the bookies in England are aware of the mood of a great many people in Scotland towards the Labour Party. I’ve heard a great many say they’ll never vote Labour again. I think if today’s mood prevails, Labour in Scotland may see their number of Westminster troughers cut dramatically.

  145. fred blogger says:

    i like 45% on facebook i’ll join soon. 🙂

  146. hadrianswall says:

    Dear Stuart,

    I understand how you feel.

    Take a holiday, relax and reflect. Your position in the struggle is assured. You are a hero.

    We all need to think about how we proceed. It has taken me 40 years of campaigning to get here. I thought this was our chance. There are people who have let us down but we still need to reach out to voters. I don’t know how we will get another chance if ever. I need to reconcile myself to the fact that I may go to my grave fighting. So be it. I will never give up.
    Stuart, look forward to seeing you at the next battle.


  147. muttley79 says:

    I agree about leaving behind the conspiracy theories. We would have fallen short anyway. Unfortunately we did really poorer any some areas of Scotland. I think we should be debating where we go from here because the vote is lost, and I don’t think we were cheated in regards to the counting of the votes. We need to think how we can maintain and develop the largely organic independence movement that has sprung up since 2011. We need to find way of developing effective tactics and strategy in the years ahead. The referendum is gone and it is now history. Lets look to the immediate future and try and build on what we have achieved since 2007.

  148. Bob Sinclair says:

    @castle hills chavie
    All I can say is thanks for those kind words. We did our best – in particular yourself who with very little support managed to motivate a 200% increase in turnout and a YES in your area. You should be proud of what you achieved.

  149. Robert Peffers says:

    The chickens are already coming home to roost. Headline this very morning – NHS in England has run up a deficit of nearly £500Million in the first few months of the financial year, official figures show.

    So there it is – Westminster cannot fund the English NHS and they are set upon private Health care and bringing in USA companies. This will cut the English NHS funding and Negative Barnett Consequentials will cut the Scottish Block Grant. The Better Together claims that The Scottish Government were also privitising were pure lies for what the SNHS were doing was subcontracting certain functions. Not the same as privatising the running of whole functions.

    Then we have a news flash that Clegg has pulled out of the promises made on more powers. Didn’t take them long to start withdrawing their sworn promises, did it.

  150. bookie from hell says:

    There were majorities for Yes in every age band from 25 to 54 and also 16-17. We couldn’t reach the over 65s. 73% for NO.

    we will be the pensioners next time

  151. Kevin Evans says:

    We have to remember what we were arguing to put an end too – there was the social injustice – wingers take 1 hour a week and help in a food bank – sit back for now but keep involved to fight the social injustice – we all know westminster will screw up the promises – let the no’s either die out or start to revolt then take them up – explain you voted yes and ask them outright “are you NOW ready to stand up and fight for the right side now”?

  152. Graeme Doig says:

    Appreciate all the positivity but if it’s ok i will spend today and probably a wee while longer grieving the fact that for one day this country held full sovereignty and today i have woken up back in englandshire. What a disgrace!

    I will spend the next wee while looking in the eye’s of every 2nd person i pass by (more than that here in Dalgety Bay) feeling ashamed to be Scottish.

    I’m sure we are now the laughing stock of the world and so we should be. Think of england and keep your fingers crossed folks.

    i’ll be back for the fight in good time but for now shame, anger and grief are all there is.

  153. Vestas says:

    Its game over in political terms for the 2015 election.

    Punishing the Scots will be very popular with all English demographics (I live here & they’re more media-washed than Scotland).

    Its done lads & lasses & the moment will not reappear for another generation.

    Advise your kids to leave & find a better life elsewhere. I have.

    Thanks to all who tried but this moment will not return inside the next 25 years 🙁

  154. heedtracker says:

    I still can’t believe Trident 2 is coming up the Clyde. What the fuck goes on between their ears. Take their oil, stash the nukes, bullshit them theyre safe with England. The BBC and all the rest of UKOK is one of the few things in this life that are truly hideous and unstoppable now.

  155. bookie from hell says:

    Diane Abbott on the Daily Politics:

    “Labour MPs will unite behind Ed Miliband, once we find out what our policies are.”


  156. Kevin Evans says:

    Snp in westminster but do not vote snp for Scottish – let the union party’s deal with the farce they created but let snp fight the battle in westminster

  157. TD says:

    Like everyone else, I am gutted at last night’s events. 24 hours ago I was optimistic and looking forward to the results. Now I am grieving.

    Just as with bereavement, shock is currently the dominant feeling. I’m trying to rationalise it, but can’t. It will take some time to get to a point where there can be any optimism.

    But we will all get there – it will take a few days or weeks I suspect. Then we can start to make judgements about what to do next. My intitial thoughts from my currently muddled mind:

    We need to find a way to protect the 45% so that next time, whenever that is, we are starting from that base instead of the 25% base we started from this time. That means keeping the issue of Scottish independence alive.

    Secondly, lets remember that the next 3 years or so are going to be politically volatile with a UK general election, a Scottish general election and almost certainly an EU in / out referendum. Any and all of these could set us up for another roll of the dice – especially an EU referendum.

    Third, the promise of more powers is going to unravel. As Stu says, that is probably a good thing in terms of preserving the financial settlement for the Scottish Government. But it will also expose the unionist parties for the charlatans that they are. There won’t be a lot we can do about it, but people will take note when they break their promise. I’m old enough to remember the 79 referendum and Home’s assertion that a No vote does not mean no change. We voted Yes, got a No result and 18 years of Thatcher.

    Fourth, in spite of Alex Salmond’s statement that we cannot have another referendum any time soon, if we want to benefit from the momentum created this time, we must find a way to have another attempt as soon as possible – perhaps after the EU referendum.

    At the moment, these are just fairly random thoughts from a Yes voter who is as distressed as everyone else. Hoepfully, a better strategist than me can develop a way ahead.

    Finally, can I add my thanks to you Stu for all your efforts. I would fully understand if you called it a day with this site, but I hope that in some form it continues and that you continue to shed light on dark corners.

  158. CameronB Brodie says:

    Gutted. We simply didn’t have enough Jedi.

    The Volunteered Slaves – Don’t Stop ‘Till You Get Enough

  159. Kenny says:

    Re: No Red Tories. Jim Murphy, the greatest disgrace Scotland has ever produced, is my MP. No, I never once voted for him. We all know he is the most useless, lying cheating rat you can imagine… but I know how to set a trap for this rat and catch him in his tricks. The minute I know who the SNP candidate will be at the next General Election, I will be contacting that person and let us hope a visit from the fraud office is the very least of Jimmy Boy’s troubles…

  160. Robert Peffers says:

    Aw! Dinna Dae it Eck!
    Wi need ye.

  161. BB says:

    Round 2 as early as 2018.

    You don’t lose a war or a cause becaues of one lost battle.

    We’re all hurting but we’ve got to accept this, move on and keep eyes on prize. We’ll have better cards to play with for round 2 as well.

  162. Andy-B says:

    We need you Rev, to oversee the transition of the so called promised powers, and with a UK GE on the horizon, we’ll need your support and input, then there’s the 2016 Scottish Elections. In which we may well give Labour a bloody nose, your input for that one would be most appreciated.

    Then of course there’s the 2017 in-out EU referendum, we’ll definitely need you for that one, so you see Rev, there’s still plenty more to do.

  163. Swami Backverandah says:

    Haven’t read all the comments, but feel much the same as many on here.
    Could someone please post a link to the facebook No Red Tories that’s been mentioned?
    Also have read report that Salmond due to give press conference but perhaps only selected media invited. Who would those media be, and does anyone have a time for expected Press Conf, or any other info re it.
    Thanks so much

  164. Tony says:

    Salmond has resigned.

  165. Robert Peffers says:

    Alex Salmond is to resign as leader.
    Scotland will be the poorer for that.

  166. muttley79 says:


    Salmond has banned Crichton and Carroll from his press conference, and they have the check to moan about it on Wings Twitter!

  167. M4rkyboy says:

    They wanted Britain,let’s give it to them.
    Good on Alex for resigning,give the Naws the leadership they asked for.
    I hope they get the scorched earth they deserve.
    They have robbed Scotland of hope,let them stew in their shitey wee English shire.
    Silence the pipes and drums,tear down the saltire and can we crowdfund a new sign for the border:

  168. Shaun Pirie says:

    It was not until William Wallace got executed that Scotland went on to win her FREEDOM. This is not over!

  169. Hardin says:

    I feel for you Stu. You’ve made this your life and now we just have to see how events unfold. I can only hope the spark of engagement you lit in so many thousands of Scots will stay alive for the years ahead. Without this site, I would probably have stayed a no voter. For this I thank you.

  170. David Martin says:

    Wings over Scotland kept me sane over the last few years. Stu please keep going. I will happily pay a sub to keep Wings going.
    The referendum was the easy option. It came too early after the surprise of 2011. We now have to do this the hard way. We will have to weather the storm of austerity, failure of any sensible devo, probable exit from Europe to reach a position where Indy is a realistic option again.

    I remeber 1979 as a child, voted YES in 1997, voted YES yesterday. Scotland is still a country. Others have been through much worse to get their independence.

  171. Lesley-Anne says:

    Stand by your beds!

    She is back again with another fantastic out of this world thought process.

    I have been thinking, YES I know it hurts my solitary brain cell folks but after last night I don’t give a damn! 😉 If any of these clips I posted earlier prove to be vote rigging does that mean that we can claim victory by default because the other side tampered with the vote. 😛

    Just a thought. Right I’m off back into my box now. 😀

  172. muttley79 says:

    Salmond has resigned as FM.

  173. gillie says:

    All the best Alex.

  174. Graeme Doig says:

    If anyone has any links to any AS speeches that would be much appreciated.

    Can’t face going near any media today.

  175. Scotty Land says:

    Stayed up and saw every vote. Seeing labour people cheering like the spoilt brats who run the WM Country had me sick. What has happened to this outfit, illegal wars, noses in the trough at WM, coalitions with tories in Councils in Scotland. Agreeing to go ahead with further cuts to L/gov , Health service and benefits through the remaining 60% austerity cuts. Milliband now not signing up to the panic promises. Voted for them for over 30 years, never again. Please don’t vote against EU as they are the only ones that will protect us through Health and Safety (not the stupid nonesense in the Mail etc) working time directive etc etc

  176. ewen says:

    Alex Salmond is going to stand down after the snp conference.

  177. The Morgatron says:

    To the greatest Prime Minister of Scotland we never had . I am heartbroken.

  178. I feel today for Alex Salmond. He has given his entire political career to getting us to where we are today, he has been relentlessly demonised and ridiculed by much lesser politicians than himself. For me he will stand out as one of the most significant and important politicians of this generation. I want to thank him from the bottom of my heart for all his efforts and his non-stop work over the past few years. The thoughts of thousands of us are with you, Alex, and we wish you every success in whatever else you take up. You are a man in a million.

  179. BigSteveChisholm says:


    First Minister to step down / Guardian still advertising Steve Bell Squeezy toys.

    I will never have that ‘beacon of freedom and liberty’ in my house again, so long as I live.

  180. Greannach says:

    So sorry that Alex will be stepping down. What a statesman. Can anyone imagine Lamont, Davidson or the Liberal behaving with dignity in the face of the provocation and vilification thrown at Salmond?

  181. hetty says:

    A Salmond to step down and the guardian as said here still has ads for AS squeezy toys, disgusting rag.
    Very very sad day for Scotland, Scottish politics and Scottish democracy.

  182. Tamson says:

    Fare ye well, Alex: I don’t think a politician has been so reviled by the British Establishment since Parnell.

    Enjoy retirement: a better nation will come, and I fervently hope you get to see it.

  183. A.N.Surgent says:

    Think that the SNP, Greens and anyone with even a bit of integrity
    left should resign and let the people have what they voted for.

    Energy should be focussed on councils and work from there. My isnt it a green and pleasant land we live in.

  184. Calgacus says:

    Alex Salmond has resigned as First Minister

  185. kestral says:

    The Westminster establishment would like us to be atomised and cowed now.
    We should strive to be the opposite.

    so utterly true

    LOOK at what you have achieved people – you took on the goliath and came so very very close to beating him

    Does any of this change how you feel about the morals that you hold to be right and decent

    Does that suddenly die because you didn’t quite get independence

    Does countering the lies being fed to the people suddenly all stop happening because you couldn’t quite persuade 5% of your population to sway from the terrible terrible fears that were thrown at them

    look at the feckin demographics of what happened – the olds who will die soon fcked thier country for the young – and they did it because of pure and utter fear

    How can anyone see that as a victory – let me assure you last night at the counting in glasgow as results came in one by one the passion in the cheers only came from 1 side

    Does that mean you suddenly feel that there is nothing worth fighting for – for those poor and those young whom WE THE PEOPLE brought to our cause and who now believe in our country and want to make changes – do you just drop them as though they mattered as nothing more than a vote

    Do we just stop scrutinizing what’s going on and allow the corruption to flourish


    I am dam proud of the good fight we fought – can BT/BBC/MSM say that, can they hold their heads high, hand on heart and say they didn’t act out of self interest

    I am dam proud of the education we have undertaken of so many more of our people

    I am dam proud of our young for taking this cause to their heart and embracing it with such passion

    I am dam proud of our poor who for soooo long have had no voice to even give them a chance to bring about change for themselves

    I am dam proud for every tear that has fallen today in utter heartache for this beautiful land of ours because we care


  186. heedtracker says:

    @ muttley79
    Salmond has banned Crichton and Carroll from his press conference, and they have the check to moan about it on Wings Twitter!

    No way. I’m in England so it’s like it’s all forgotten about already. The biggest devo fraud going now is the idea that England wants devo for England and English only parliament. Consensus among English here was, first real anger at Scotland for voting Yes but now it’s over and done with, they do not want any more parliaments or City devo etc and why would they, Westminster is England’s parliament and English people are dominant purely because there’s 60 million of them. English devo is another teamGB con and we’ll no doubt have 2 million proud Scots buts who like it.

  187. TJenny says:

    Well, i’s a very strange day here in Abbeyhill. There’s an eerie stillness all around, no gardens being dug, no hammering or drilling, no street conversations to be heard. Where’s all the jubilation and partying from the Nos? Strange.

    Anyhoo, so many comments that maybe I’ve missed them, but are Paula Rose, Ronnie Anderson, Thepnr, Ian Brotherhood, X – Sticks, Bugger etc all coping OK?

    Do we need to have a real group hug, with Stuey, in Bathgate(?), or place of his choosing, tomorrow? Don’t think I’ve got the energy for it tonight, but maybe tomorrow?

    I think we achieved a lot yesterday, and by being truthful – lies are very hard to sustain, and hopefully come back to bite the unionist MSPs + MPs on the bum, soon.

    Surely our fantastic grassroots movement isn’t going to melt like snaw of a dyke, is it? I don’t think so – remember a lot more of us know the facts now, and you can’t undo that.

    Oh, and I’d really like Stu and WOS to stick around, we’d obviously have to make it worth his while – but I also like the idea of a magazine inc WOS, National Collective, Bateman, McWhirter maybe, maybe a weekly – we could call it ‘Private Aye’. 🙂

  188. PickledOnionSupper says:

    A N Surgent – I second that. SNP MPs & MSPs should follow Alex’s lead & make Scottish Labour come out & fight by-elections all over Scotland.

  189. Ian Sanderson says:

    I’m not normally a conspiracy nut but …

    OK there’s a bit of duplication in the posted videos BUT….

    Stu, you have better sources / resources than most of us on here. Owt you can do? I’m happy to be proved wrong.

  190. AyeAlba says:

    When I pinned my Wings Over Scotland and my YES badges on my jacket and put up the YES posters on my windows, I did it with hope for the future of Scotland.

    In light of that no vote I wondered about taking them down.

    Then I thought NO!

    They are staying right where they are as a DEFIANT reminder to all the cowards and naesayers that when the shit hits the fan(its started already) it was their choice not mine.

  191. Chic McGregor says:

    I have said these things before.

    Westminster in cahoots with the UK Supreme court will make another referendum ‘illegal’. They might even write it into a constitution.

    They will not only renege on any jam promised but will raid Scotland’s larder which is already smaller than the housekeeping we contribute.

    Many No voters will quickly come to realise they have been duped.

    We should blame the dupers not the duped.

    It is inconsistent to point to the lies and distortions of the Unionist Establishment and their distribution by a compliant media yet not allow that they have their desired effect.

    I can foresee a party or parties in Scotland which put UDI at the top of their manifestos winning a general election with a mandate to invoke it.

    It might well be the case that none of those parties are the SNP. That would require a paradigm shift on their part.

    If I were to bet, I would predict that the SNP will carry on to oblivion by taking the hit for the devastation which is to follow. They will justify this to themselves by telling themselves that they are acting in the best interests of Scots. They would not be, on any level.

    If they instead hand over to a Scottish Tory government (alliance of red, blue and yellow tories) that would benefit the Scots by ameliorating the worst excesses of our imperial masters in London or at least slow the rate at which their planned pillaging can be carried out.

    But those effects would still be sufficient for the penny to drop amongst the duped-No voters.

    In those circumstances the SNP could become the leading UDI party. Otherwise, they are finished and another party will do so.

    It is, of course, unreasonable to expect the SNP politicians to resign en masse. However it should not prove difficult to find a sufficient number of volunteers from the ranks of those who would not be standing at the next election anyway and for the SNP to not contest those seats.

    But if the SNP do not see that this provides the best prospect for protecting the people of Scotland, maximising their own chances and getting independence, then I think events will bestow that honour on others.

    Be in no doubt, the anger of those who only come to realise they were being duped after the referendum will dwarf that of those who came to that realisation before it.

  192. andy says:

    It seems that Scotland has spoken in the imortal voice of Ronnie Corbert:

    “I know my place.”

    Scotland R.I.P.

  193. Kevin Evans says:

    All yes smp’s should stand down from the Scottish parliment and let the better together lot deal with the mess.

  194. M4rkyboy says:

    The whole English devo shit and family of nations schtick is a fraud.
    The scotland analysis papers claimed GB as the continuator of England,England already has a parliament of its own,westminster.
    How the fuck could we vote No?

  195. fred blogger says:

    i am 🙁 🙁 it must have hit him very hard i share his pain, i know many others here will also he has done so much for scotland, as FM and leader of the SNP.
    i wonder what role he will eventually take?
    i now refuse to post bbc links.

  196. Lesley-Anne says:

    Sorry if this has been posted before but Alex Salmond has announced he is standing down as First Minister.

  197. G Dodds says:

    A lousy day got worse. Alec Salmond has announced his resignation. Drinks all round Westminster no doubt

  198. Tears o' The Bruce says:

    Just on to say thanks to all at WoS for giving me an alternative to the UKs right wing Pravda like press.

    I will struggle over the coming years not to hate the 55% who have denied me something I have wanted all my life, because they allowed their fear or regard for the content of their wallets to prevail over their national pride.

    I live in the 70% for No Borders. All I can say is that they boast about the Reivers who centuries ago raided across the border to steal sheep. On 18/09/2914 70% of them proved they have become sheep!!!

    I was born in Edinburgh and saw someone have a go at my beautiful city for its No vote. Hands off Auld Reekie, it has become a VICTIM of the union, not a supporter of it.

    As others have said … If you voted No then wave your bloody union flag at Hampden or Murrayfield because that is the identity you have asked for … don’t corrupt the Saltire with your 90 minute nationalism!!!

    I wondered this morning if those of us who voted Yes should ditch the Saltire and use our own new flag. But I am converted to the idea of the 45% … that should be the logo for us … Hats, mugs, T Shirts, car stickers, fridge magnets … whatever.

    Show you are proud of what you did and display it for all to see in the years, decades, centuries to come until our time comes again.

    Never Give Up ….. Scotland Forever, the 45% forever.

  199. Brian McHugh says:

    I’m in tears again.

  200. Auld Sandy says:

    Several people have suggested starting a new ‘newspaper’. Could the Scottish Daily News title be considered for resurrection?

    In these days of on-line publishing and with so many disillusiioned Yes voters, it might have more of a chance.

  201. mirenkarmele says:

    I think that already a few people that voted “NO” are now regretting it, in the next few weeks more of them will become disenchanted when they reliase that “Devo Max” is wet paper.
    The PM already is linking extra power for Scotland to the creation of an English separate Parliament. Ed Millibank is already saying that he would oppose such plans.
    I don’t see anything wrong in having four different federal states inside the UK, that is England, Scotland, Wales and North Ireland. Then England the biggest partner could have autonomous regions inside the federal state of England.
    It would devolve power back to the people at grass root levels for all. I am a Labour party member and I hate the idea of the Tories and UKIP ruling in England for years to come as much as the leadership of the Labour Party does. But first and foremost I am a democrat and if the majority of the people of England choose Tory, I would have two choices to stay or to emigrate. It is not fair for the Labour Party to sacrifice the legitimate aspiration of the Scots in their pursue for power at Westminster alongside the aspirations of its rank and file. Most Labour Party members despair with the stand of the Labour front bench. Some individual Labour MP’s still adhere to socialist principles. It is time for the Labour Party to stop pandering for middle Britain(the southeast) in their quest to reach power. 13 years of Labour administration at Westminster didn’t deliver for Scotland, for the North of England and for the great majority of Londoners. Remember on 2000 Londoners defied the Labour leadership and voted Ken Livistong as major of London against Frank Dobson the official Labour candidate.
    I am sad for you, what full of hope that you can became a beckon for the file and rank to reclaim the Labour Party, to get rid of the Darlings and Millibanks and get back to our roots. The fight now is on for federal UK

  202. TJenny says:

    Try again:

    Well, i’s a very strange day here in Abbeyhill. There’s an eerie stillness all around, no gardens being dug, no hammering or drilling, no street conversations to be heard. Where’s all the jubilation and partying from the Nos? Strange.

    Anyhoo, so many comments that maybe I’ve missed them, but are Paula Rose, Ronnie Anderson, Thepnr, Ian Brotherhood, X – Sticks, Bugger etc all coping OK?

    Do we need to have a real group hug, with Stuey, in Bathgate(?), or place of his choosing, tomorrow? Don’t think I’ve got the energy for it tonight, but maybe tomorrow?

    I think we achieved a lot yesterday, and by being truthful – lies are very hard to sustain, and hopefully come back to bite the unionist MSPs + MPs on the bum, soon.

    Surely our fantastic grassroots movement isn’t going to melt like snaw of a dyke, is it? I don’t think so – remember a lot more of us know the facts now, and you can’t undo that.

    Oh, and I’d really like Stu and WOS to stick around, we’d obviously have to make it worth his while – but I also like the idea of a magazine inc WOS, National Collective, Bateman, McWhirter maybe, maybe a weekly – we could call it ‘Private Aye’. 🙂

  203. David Stevenson says:


    Labour at Holyrood would likely eliminate free HE as well as prescriptions, eye tests and dental checks (though these will remain free to pensioners, no doubt). Free bus travel and free care for the elderly would also be cushioned.

    Labour know what side their bread is buttered on and since over-65s was the No demographic and the rest were the Yes, I can’t see it panning out any other way.

    Of course, if the Tories win in 2015, Labour could be screwed for the Scottish Parliament in the same way that they were in 2011 post-2010. The likely EU ballot would also kick into the political melting pot and we could again have the opportunity to diverge from England politically. Lots could happen……

  204. Les Wilson says:

    heraldnomore says:

    That is because he is now Fxxxxx in Scotland, along with his Slab comrades.( we should say partners, that would be the corporate thing to say!)

  205. thoughtsofascot says:

    Scotland has show itself to not be deserving of a politician such as Salmond. He was a one in a million guy and his loss will be mourned by the remaining Scots. The Brits will cheer. They have had their Christmas, Easter and Birthday today. Let them celebrate, knowing that they will be the first ones complaining and crying when all goes arse up and they end up destitute.

  206. TJenny says:

    3rd time lucky?

    Well, i’s a very strange day here in Abbeyhill. There’s an eerie stillness all around, no gardens being dug, no hammering or drilling, no street conversations to be heard. Where’s all the jubilation and partying from the Nos? Strange.

    Anyhoo, so many comments that maybe I’ve missed them, but are Paula Rose, Ronnie Anderson, Thepnr, Ian Brotherhood, X – Sticks, Bugger etc all coping OK?

    Do we need to have a real group hug, with Stuey, in Bathgate(?), or place of his choosing, tomorrow? Don’t think I’ve got the energy for it tonight, but maybe tomorrow?

    I think we achieved a lot yesterday, and by being truthful – lies are very hard to sustain, and hopefully come back to bite the unionist MSPs + MPs on the bum, soon.

    Surely our fantastic grassroots movement isn’t going to melt like snaw of a dyke, is it? I don’t think so – remember a lot more of us know the facts now, and you can’t undo that.

    Oh, and I’d really like Stu and WOS to stick around, we’d obviously have to make it worth his while – but I also like the idea of a magazine inc WOS, National Collective, Bateman, McWhirter maybe, maybe a weekly – we could call it ‘Private Aye’. 🙂

  207. Kenzie says:

    Just received an email from an American friend; he says that AS has resigned! Is this true?

  208. Liquid Lenny says:

    Quinie frae Angus

    Great Idea, but we need a while to cast out the demons, and refresh our souls.

    I huvnae felt this bad since my Budgie died in 1975 and I aint joking…

  209. Free at last? says:

    Yes. See BBC News channel – press conference.

  210. Chris Baxter says:

    I’ll be avoiding all BBC and Guardian output where it’s possible.

    They are scum.

  211. Diego Hernandez says:

    Something I’m wondering about, as someone who isn’t a monetary policy expert, is the possibility of Scotland setting up its own central bank within the UK. Alistair Darling often claimed that the UK is a currency union with a fiscal/political union attached. It doesn’t look like one, but what if it could be one in the near future?

    The European Central Banking System consists of the ECB on top of all the national central banks (NCBs), all of which issue euros. That is an actual currency union. Set up with a proportional share of the BoE’s reserves, a Scottish central bank would be accountable to Holyrood, generally doing what all the NCBs do for their countries.

    Currency fears would be greatly reduced in the event of another independence debate. The multi-state currency union would not be some “brave new world” but a continuation of the prior arrangements, and all the financial sector types would have their lender of last resort right there.

    More generally, it seems to me that much more should be done to build up the Scottish state institutions. Not so much “be the nation again” as “be the nation-state anew”. A separate Scottish pensions system, DVLA, welfare/benefits system and the like would be harder to scaremonger against.

    All of these institutions would have had to be built up mostly from scratch. The middle-class voters who have no problem with these pan-UK instituions as they currently exist and had no idea of how Scottish ones could be established without upheaval were undoubtedly scared shitless by the “risk” of losing them.

    The simplicity of change was something the Yes camp could have done more to hammer home, but imagine how much more assured they’d be if the Scottish institutions were already established.

    A problem faced by the Yes campaign was the simple fact that Scotland is far less autonomous now than the average US state is from Washington DC. Even though there’s no appetite for such a thing (American national identity, unlike British, is strong), a Californian independence campaign would likely have an easier debate on these matters than Scotland’s did.

    If the UK were to be transformed from a slightly reformed unitary state into a heavily decentralised federation, within which Scotland has full fiscal autonomy, then those arguing for Scottish independence would only have to argue that acquisition of full sovereignty is but a small yet beneficial step.

    Westminster politicians likely know this. They didn’t want even minimal devolution for this very reason. In any new federation or devolution settlement, the WM parties will promise FFA but try to keep enough pan-UK powers in the hands of the central government. Unfortunately, the referendum result showed them that retention of such powers can undermine pro-independence movements.

    This is why electorally eviscerating the Scottish WM parties – at both Westminster and Holyrood – is so important. Only actual Scottish parties can prevent WM’s retention of numerous pan-UK powers in a future settlement.

    It would be a shame if Stu Campbell left this debate. However, he’s more than done his share for the Scottish independence movement. Others should get organised.

  212. fred blogger says:

    Kevin Evans
    i also think along those lines, but become independents.

  213. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dorothy Bruce says: 19 September, 2014 at 4:21 pm:
    “I feel today for Alex Salmond. He has given his entire political career to getting us to where we are today.”

    Och! Dorothy, lassie, Eck is not giving up on being an MSP. Just handing over as leader of the Party to a new elected leader and not standing again as First Minister when his present stint is over.

  214. Grouse Beater says:

    The great ‘Vow’ of the Westminster parties begins to unravel…

  215. TJenny says:

    Can’t get posted. 🙁 See if this gets through.

    Now that AS has stepped dow, as he only ever said hed nt call another referendum, does this leave NS free to do so?

  216. Harry McAye says:

    Totally gutted today but staying away from the telly helps. I thought the missing hundreds of thousands, over looked by the polls would have made the difference. I still have trouble believing the margin of victory was actually that big. The mood just seemed totally different but I suppose for many of us we are in a preaching to the converted bubble. I always did worry that the bulk of the No’s were not particularly engaged with the campaign and were just sitting at home, waiting to go out on the day and do the dirty deed.

    I will certainly never buy another Daily Record or indeed any paper except maybe the Sunday Herald. With “the Vow” already unravelling, I think we should do our utmost to keep the WBBs in circulation. Certainly they should not be binned. I will happily pledge £500 towards a Wings newspaper or similar idea. Voting SNP, assuming they still exist, at the next GE is a must. Not sure about 2016, as someone earlier said, might be better if SNP lost that one and let Labour sort out the mess of their own making.

    As for conspiracies, I like one myself and that vid of the lad at the table did look dodgy initially, he seemed to be checking if the coast was clear. But on further inspection he doesn’t seem to be marking a cross. Looks like he is entering a total for the pile. So that one doesn’t stand up for me, or the lady moving stuff from one pile to another (an error on her part?) but I’d love to know why Yes votes are sitting on a No table. Read an earlier explanation (Morag?) but surely they would have other non-marked tables to sit them on?

    Finally, thanks again to Stuart and all the wonderful folk on here. Our day will hopefully come again. I’m off to get a “Don’t Blame Me, I Voted Yes” t-shirt.

  217. Gavin Greig says:

    If this campaign has shown anything, it’s that we need a Wings over Scotland. You can be proud of what you’ve achieved – especially its culmination in the Wee Blue Book, without which it seems unlikely we’d have done as well as we did. Which is that 9 out of every 20 people voted Yes, and only one in every 20 would need to change to bring us to the threshold of success.

    If you need to do something else now, after a rest, do what’s right for you. But do it in the knowledge you made a real difference; and we’d fund you to do more, or support you if you want to share the load or hand it on to someone else.

  218. Scotty Land says:

    Democracy is the majority, not necessarily the truth. Very proud to see 1.6m voted yes. Any other election in Scotland an organisation with this number would have been a landslide victory. Watched every vote. Saw Labour party cheering like the spoilt brats who are running from WM. What has happened to this crowd. Illegal wars, noses in troughs ie £230.000 exps plus a salary at WM, coalitions with Tories in L/gov. Signing up to more cuts through L Gov, Health and benefits through austerity cuts, more pain and of course no gain, aye very good. Beaten by fear, greed, big business, media and bigotry. Well done all and of course WoS.

  219. call me dave says:

    AS the best politician Scotland has ever had.

    He knows the promises, which have been linked to better deals for England, Wales and N Ireland is a no deal.

    I hear Cameron and Ed Miliband have refused to progress certain aspects of the unionist pig in a poke package as promised.
    Westminster politicians will wreck any progressive moves that were cobbled together by Gordo, Darling and others.

    So it begins. The fat lady has sung more than half the country has been duped.

  220. R-type Grunt says:

    Alex Salmond is in my opinion the greatest Scot. He has inspired my whole life. This is a shite day!

  221. tony campbell says:

    I voted Yes yesterday in Airdrie and despite today’s result I am proud that I chose hope over fear and the future rather than the past. I am bewildered by those people here who are crying foul or are saying they do not feel like proud Scots, one even says she has never been a proud Scot!! How does that work?

    My point is the following; How could historically staunch Labour areas like North Lanarkshire, Glasgow and Dundee vote Yes and yet the heartland areas of nationalism like Moray, Aberdeenshire,The Isles vote decisively NO. Why did obvious soft targets like Falkirk, West Lothian and Clackmannanshire vote decisively No. I just don’t understand how areas with SNP MP’s and to a lesser extent MSP’s voted so decisively NO.

    Are there questions to be answered regarding strategy or are there other reasons?

  222. ewen says:

    This day is just too emotional.

    Thank you Mr Salmond. I am impressed by your measured dignity today.

    So the timetable for devo is already a dead duck. Do you feel duped, no voters? Effing eejits.

  223. Mary says:

    I just want to say a huge thank you for this site and the truth.Please continue in some form we need to keep informed and share facts. I am surprised at how tearful and sad I am today and realise I will not see my Fair and just Scotland in my lifetime. I am a later boomer and it was through this group I found the unbiased facts to move me from a heart based Yes to a head informed Yes. Many of my colleagues and friends changed to Yes after I shared.

    I work in the NHS the night shift Wed was upbeat excited and last night so subdued some in tears. Two folk had voted no their husbands jobs depended on a no vote or so they had been told. I do not want to go on strike for an previously agreed 1% pay rise like my southern nurses and midwives. I feel so fearful but hope your site will continue in some form Scotland may have had its wings clipped last night but we an heal with the right treatment and advice.
    Thanks to all especially Stuart

  224. Balford says:

    In the final days of the Scottish referendum, just as the heart of a nation once again began to beat, a great beast stirred and rose amid the unmistakeable air of brimstone. This miscreant offspring of a great and ancient line of religious reformers summoned up his dark disciples to strike fear into the souls of those seeking only just reform and took that proud and newly beating heart and tore it asunder. Yet the great beast knew it could never again have ultimate power so descended once more to its lair adding another title to its name “The bringer of wars, the destroyer of economies, the suffocater of nations”

  225. Joe McAdam says:

    Well done, Rev. You were a very distinct thorn in the bloated side of the establishment, and an informed curse to every No voter desperately trying to forward their agenda in the form of reason. You were a vital part of this campaign and responsible for countless Yes votes.
    Scotland, or at least the Scotland that fought back, salutes you.

  226. kininvie says:

    A wee thought:

    Here’s an extract from a briefing about ‘What happens next’ from Anderson Strathearn:

    The proposals are understood to include a commitment to publish a Command Paper by the end of October 2014, setting out all the plans for more powers, following “intensive consultation with Scottish society”. By the end of November 2014, it is intended that the consultation will be completed and a White paper published, setting out agreed plans for reform.

    You will note “intensive consultation with Scottish Society.” Well, 45% of Scottish society voted Yes, so we need to make our voice heard in these ‘consulatations’. And imo that voice should say very clearly “We demand devolution of broadcasting.” That is the single most important power we can gain to help us move on to the next time.

  227. Les Wilson says:

    Alex Salmond is to stand down after a ballot for a new leader.

  228. Gary45% says:

    To Stu and everyone who follows WoS, many thanks for helping to keep the dream alive.

    I only found the site a few weeks ago, and since then I have lost count of the amount of wee blue books my wife and I have handed out. I have supported SNP / Independence all my working life so my mind was already made up.

    Maybe after an appropriate rest period (say a month or so) WoS should recommence. You are the voice of our nation and one of the limited possibilities for keeping the politicians on their toes.

    Thanks again

  229. Chris Baxter says:

    The fight would continue regardless, but will continue with more verve thanks to the horrendous nature of the No campaign. Their conduct will be remembered. It will be passed down to our children.

    It will not be forgotten.

    Neither will the respectful conduct of FM Alex Salmond and DM Nicola Sturgeon.

    You will be missed, Alex. A great Scot. A truly great Scot.

  230. bookie from hell says:

    foook me

    today gets worse

    need a drink

  231. liz says:

    @mirenkarmele – I cant be arsed listening to your crocodile tears either resign from the labour party or suck it up as red tories.

  232. liz says:

    @Rev Stu – could you please consider banning all these we wuz robbed by fraud trolls from this site.

  233. heedtracker says:

    Torquil Crichton tweets it’s sinister that he gets barred from an SNP announcement like tths one, they really know no depths these liggers sent from whatever hell produces fascism like that.

  234. Giggy says:

    Revenge should be swift.
    A land reform bill that will shaft Paul Dacre, Dan Snow and various dukes and duchesses should be pushed through as soon as possible.
    There is a window of opportunity.
    Let’s see if Labour will stand up for them or the people.

  235. paul says:

    45% is a pretty good result to build on, who knows what the future holds.
    Thanks for all the good work

  236. Graeme Doig says:

    Honourable and dignified to the end.

    Thank you Mr Salmond. You are a leader, politician and statesman second to none. You can hold your head high sir.

    R-type Grunt, this is a shite day indeed!

  237. Robert Peffers says:

    @TJenny says: 19 September, 2014 at 4:36 pm:

    “Now that AS has stepped dow, as he only ever said hed nt call another referendum, does this leave NS free to do so?”

    Whoa! There TJenny! Alex has NOT stepped Down. He has announced he will not stand again after his term of office is over. He gets elected as Party Leader at Party Conference and again as First Minister if/when the party is elected as the Holyrood Government. Furthermore, the SNP is a real democratic party and the leadership is done by nominations from the Constituency Associations. These must be seconded and then carried forward to national conference where the party membership, or rather elected people put forward as delegates to conference.

    Then there is a selection process and, in the SNP it is one person one vote in the leadership election. Wee Nicola would be my my first choice but Stuart Hosie is a real good un too.

  238. AyeAlba says:

    Didn’t think it could get worse, but hearing Alex Salmond has resigned just puts the tin lid on it all.

    He devoted his life to the Independence movement and I believe he was possibly the only Honourable mp in Scotland and I will be very sad to see him go.

  239. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @TJenny –

    Hi pal. Hope you’re okay.

    Letting it all sink in after hearing Alex Salmond’s announcement.

    The old one about ‘whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger’ seems apt right now, but still, it hurts like hell.

  240. Chic McGregor says:

    “All yes smp’s should stand down from the Scottish parliment and let the better together lot deal with the mess.”

    That is an unreasonable and unnecessary ask, the same objective can be obtained by a small number, which has the benefit of leaving the infrastructure of a proven competent administration intact in the wings.

    BTW I wonder if Ian Davidson still contends that if Glasgow votes differently from the rest of Scotland it should be allowed to partition? (rhetorical)

  241. Harry McAye says:

    Missed the breaking news. Thanks Alex for your immense efforts. The greatest politician on these islands, probably soon to be replaced by the second greatest, Nicola. All the best, big man.

  242. Chris Baxter says:


    I don’t see anything wrong in having four different federal states inside the UK, that is England, Scotland, Wales and North Ireland. Then England the biggest partner could have autonomous regions inside the federal state of England.

    You should say that to our faces. Seriously.

  243. Lesley-Anne says:

    Westminster politicians will be judged not by their words but by their actions. Unfortunately NOT my words but words from the GREATEST leader ever to walk the paths of Scotland, Alex Salmond!

  244. fred blogger says:

    while yer @ it we could bring back normans.

  245. Stevie boy says:

    Why are we all just taking this lying down and saying that we were fairly beaten?

    If you check out social media even foreign news channels are reporting that the vote was severely rigged?

    If this was Zimbabwe or somewhere the world’s media would be going mental.

    We didn’t lose.. we were clearly conned!!!

  246. Zen Broon says:

    One of the lessons for me was the power of social media. It is limited, it never reached the 55+ers that sunk it for Scotland. However that will change and it *does* have the power to challenge the establishment, and WoS was a main part of that challenge. We need that more than ever.

  247. Jim Mitchell says:

    few thoughts, the SNP msp’s should NOT step down and leave the mess to Labour, they will simply blame it on the SNP with the help of the pals in the media, besides, they have their constitutes to think about, people who voted for them, this is not about teaching Scotland a lesson from Holyrood in which we ALL suffer, it’s still about doing the best to protect those who are on our side, and let’s remember, as much as we disagree with them, we still will need the votes of the naysayers to gain our independence.

    I don’t have all the answers but today is not the day to try and fathom why, indeed we need over the next few days to gather our thoughts, firstly about what we are going to do as individuals.

    Then when we have rested and recovered our balance and the circus has left town, decide what we do if anything as groups, we must not start the blame game between ourselves, the unionists will try that, painful though it will be, we have, when the time is right, to go back over the referendum business, to see not only what we can do differently or better, but to see what we can use in the future.

    For now we rest and reflect, but not for too long,

    As for Alex he, in my opinion, deserves our undying credit for the way he has handeled all the dirt that has been thrown at him, he too deserves a rest, hopefully not to long, whilst both the SNP and the freedom movement select our new leader.

    BTW I am continuing to wear my yes badge, as I am sure many others will, but not as an act of defiance but rather as an act of pride, not in myself, but in all of those I had the privilege to work with on the 18th and whom I hope I have the even greater privilege of working with in the future.

  248. I’m feeling just as gutted as everybody else, but I do hope Wings will continue in some form or another, even if it won’t be quite as active. It’s become the centre of a whole community of activists, one that might need to reactivate at short notice in the future, and that’s much harder if the site has been closed down. Thanks for everything!

  249. Ronnie says:

    Alex resigns!

  250. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    T Jenny

    I have not been good all day but now after looking a bit into the demographics of the yes/no split I see that the coffin dodgers, unlike we both, was the group wot won it fur Naw.

    This is the group which has free bus passes, health care, eye care, dental care, old age care and respect from the SNP.

    What did they do, they allowed themselves to be frightened by Gordon Brown, over their pensions and by their highly respected betters of the Industrial peerage.

    They sold Scotland and their grandweans futures. Feck them.

    Boy are they going to be fucked over very soon by Osbourn and Clegg and Miliband and Cameron and Boris and Farage.

    Stand by for the privatisation of Scottish Water so they can pipe it down to England for the gas fracking industry.

    There are no fools like old fools.

    Tragedy is they’ll will be dead soon and their fruit of their loins will be in servitude because of them.

    I am not coming back to live in Scotland until she is free; which might mean I will be in a coffee tin.


  251. kininvie says:


    Great idea, if we can pull together to get it to work.

    But it is not going to be cheap – there’s no point in putting out a smudgy, badly-proofed copy on recycled toilet paper. It will suffer the fate of most such ‘tracts’.

    As for distribution: I’ve no doubt the WBB distribution team could come up with ideas, but it would have to be a rather different kettle of fish to a one-off effort dependent entirely on volunteers.

    Probably the best way of short-cutting the distribution is to ask the Sunday Herald (who have said today they will continue to support indy) to give us a really good deal for an insert.

    We can crowd-fund for printing and production (and for the insert costs) and rely initially on a team of volunteers for the writing, editing and design.

    I’m certainly up for this.

  252. George says:


  253. Brus MacGallah says:

    I was doing okay but the resignation has brought me to tears.

  254. TJenny says:

    Ian B – great to hear from you are all rest coping do you know?

    What about a get together with Stu, soon, before he goes home – if he’s not already gone.

    Did you like the idea of a weekly magazine with WOS, NC, Bateman, WGD etc – called ‘Private Aye’. 🙂

  255. Deontas says:

    Its been some journey.

    Its like a sudden death of a family member, and today and all weekend no doubt is like hanging about waiting to know when the funeral is, so surreal and totally lost for words, Simply indebted to Stu & Eck for trying to give us true and honest change.

    Money corrupts right enough………..

    Take care everyone and never ever….ever give in! Cheers.

  256. goulashman says:

    Scotland owes so much to Alex Salmond. Nicola Sturgeon would be a worthy, so capable successor. I feel bereft – and in a dark political wilderness wherein prowl the worst of fascist Tory/Labour/LibDem Trolls

  257. TJenny says:

    And again. Anyone else having probs posting????

    Ian B – great to hear from you are all rest coping do you know?

    What about a get together with Stu, soon, before he goes home – if he’s not already gone.

    Did you like the idea of a weekly magazine with WOS, NC, Bateman, WGD etc – called ‘Private Aye’. 🙂

  258. Grouse Beater says:

    Thank you, Alec Salmond, for fighting so hard and so long to bring dignity and confidence back to your nation. Your magnificent effort has proven not to be in vain.

  259. Flower of Scotland says:

    Well Cameron reneges on “THE VOW ” within hours! Thank you Alex Salmond for all your hard work, charisma and humour! Nicola will make a great FM!

    Rev. You will have to keep Wings going .Alex Salmond wants to join us in a new venture!

    I can’t stop crying today!! All my dreams broken!!

  260. Wee Alex says:

    Diane Abbott on TV says Labour would be punished in Scotland if Devo is not delivered to timescale. She is right of course, but they sold there soul anyway by getting into bed with the Tories.

    Alec Salmond resigning is sad but understandable. He is absolutely right when he says people power is the real winner of the campaign, politics will never be the same again.

  261. Lesley-Anne says:

    I think the privilege is OURS Alex. WE are just ever so privileged to have the opportunity to have YOU as First Minister.

  262. TJenny says:

    Anyone else having probs posting???

    Ian B – great to hear from you are all rest coping do you know?

    What about a get together with Stu, soon, before he goes home – if he’s not already gone.

    Did you like the idea of a weekly magazine with WOS, NC, Bateman, WGD etc – called ‘Private Aye’. 🙂

  263. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I just got an e-mail from Ed Miliband.

    How in the feks name did he get my address?

    ” Dear Bugger,

    I am delighted and proud that the people of Scotland have made this historic decision to stay in the United Kingdom.

    This was a vote for social justice, for our NHS, and for unity — because we are better together.”

    It goes on and says he want to save the NHS FFS!

    Have the bastards been tracking me? I thought that collar has a GPS chip in it.

  264. Valerie says:

    I admire those who want to go on. Having just watched Alex Salmond resign, that is the tin lid for me. We can bed over and smile now, because this result as it is played out has opened the door to Tory/Boris and UKIP. The 55% have voted to flush this country down the toilet, whilst parts of Glasgow were too busy watching Celtic last night or standing in a queue at the Apple store for the new fucking iphone. Foodbanks, Trident, all welcome to this social shithole now.

  265. Paul Miller says:

    Goodbye to free university education. These middle class folk that said to themselves I’m fine, sod the rest, will get a huge shock when we start charging for an education.

  266. G H Graham says:

    We lost the independence argument because there are too many old people petrified about losing their pension & too many people in all age groups were worried about the Pound & taxes.

    Both issues were of course based upon nothing but emotion due to successful scaremongering but it nevertheless worked.

  267. Stevie boy says:

    Compelling evidence that the vote was rigged.

    Numerous video evidence on social media.

    That’s why only 57% at Dundee.. countless bundles of Yes papers on the No table there.

    It’s shocking!!

    Check social media.. We could have won!!!

  268. Nova Scotia says:

    Thank you Alex. Good luck Nicola

  269. Macandroid says:

    Down – but not out.

    Free newsheet available at all the usual outlets (Scots Independent, Bella, Wings, WG Dug, et al involvement?).

    Get broadband into every home in Scotland.

    All this before the next referendum – around 2018/2019 I would say.

    Hat off to Alex for what he and SNP and YES have achieved in a shorter timescale than they would have preferred.

    Alba gu bràth

  270. Auld Sandy says:

    AS used speech to highlight treachery of Cameron and Brown, nice touch. They’ll probably edit that bit out on the News tonight.

  271. Robert Peffers says:

    @Chris Baxter says: 19 September, 2014 at 4:49 pm:

    “I don’t see anything wrong in having four different federal states inside the UK, that is England, Scotland, Wales and North Ireland. Then England the biggest partner could have autonomous regions inside the federal state of England.

    You should say that to our faces. Seriously.”

    Well anyone who knows the truth can see what is wrong with it. The United Kingdom is not a collection of four countries as its very title attests, “The United Kingdom”, describes exactly what it is. It is a kingdom and a kingdom is a Royal Realm , which may or may not be a country and may be many countries.

    Not only that but there are only two Kingdoms in that Union as the signatures on the actual Treaty attest. Then historic documents prove that the Kingdom of England annexed the Princedom of Wales by the “Statute of Rhuddlan”, in 1284 then annexed the whole of Ireland by the Crown of Ireland Act in 1542. %Thus the Treaty of Union is a bipartrite union. Furthermore, all bipartite unions end when either party leaves the union as that means they disunite. Therefore there cannot be an rUnited Kingdom as there cannot be a union with only one partner.

    Thus the very concept of Westminster as both the parliament of the United Kingdom and the parliament of the country of London is illegal. As is splitting up a bipartite United Kingdom into a union of four countries and retaining Westminster as a parliament of the country of England devolving English powers to the other four countries as if they were subservient to the country of England is neither legal nor democratic.

    Anyone care to prove me wrong with facts and figures?

  272. creag an tuirc says:

    a wee something for the troops, I know it’s not much. National Collective “It would have been a Yes majority (54.3%) if you removed the 65+ vote. The Yes generation is not going anywhere”

  273. Stevie boy says:

    Sadly it wouldn’t have been as it would still have been rigged!!

  274. John in Fife says:

    I can’t believe that AS is stepping down. The Westminster establishment are very frightened of him. Probably the best politician in the UK at present.

  275. Torquil McAllister says:

    What a sad day for Scottish nationalism. Still, would I be right to think that Mr Salmond has resigned from the SNP leadership once before, and returned? Is there any good reason why he could not come back again, perhaps playing Gordon Brown to Nicola Sturgeon’s Darling, in a second referendum? This could happen either if the UK votes to leave the EU or if UK-wide constitutional reform is messed-up.

  276. Kevin Evans says:

    Chic McGregor says:
    19 September, 2014 at 4:48 pm
    “All yes smp’s should stand down from the Scottish parliment and let the better together lot deal with the mess.”

    That is an unreasonable and unnecessary ask, the same objective can be obtained by a small number, which has the benefit of leaving the infrastructure of a proven competent administration intact in the wings.

    BTW I wonder if Ian David

    With a clear head I must agree

  277. Andy-B says:

    Alex Salmond giving his resignation speech on SKY news, the king is dead long live the king. Nicola Sturgeon will steady the SNP ship until either she or someone else is elected leader on November.

    Gutless, cowed and without aspiration, the “Lion Rampant” squeaked last night, and oh how the world must now look upon Scotland with pathetic disdain.

    Still with Labour losing their Glasgow heartland to the YES camp,it will be interesting to see the Scottish election of 2016 pan out,like many folk I’ll never vote Labour as they’re ruled from Westminster. I’m also disgusted with Aberdeen’s majority voting no.

  278. Kevin Evans says:

    Hand the poisoned chalice to better together but have enough representation by snp to expose it

  279. slackshoe says:

    This is probably going to come across as a bit patronising, but I mean well.

    I’m noticing Stu’s tweets getting increasingly frustrated and bleak. We all share that feeling. I know it seems like all is lost. It could well be, and the need to vent is understandable; but it’s just giving the No side even more reason to gloat.

    Be proud of what you and we have achieved. We can still do more. I don’t think anyone could disagree that Yes won the online battle. This is our territory. Look at Yes followers vs Better Together.

    We’re making the mainstream media extinct bit by bit. If we take the heat off them then everything we’ve worked towards will have been for nothing, they’ll just go back to unchallenged bullshitting.

    Remember: Who watches the watchmen?

  280. Chris Leishman says:

    Hi All,

    Well what to say…? Disappointed of course, but at least I was never expecting a Yes vote. I couldn’t be more proud of Glasgow –I love that city and its people. For Yes voters – you shook the Establishment to its core, and hopefully a federal UK will come of it, and you should be proud.

    On a personal note, I kind of feel a bit lost. I don’t feel like I want to be associated with a nation that doesn’t stand up on its own two feet; how anyone can sing Flower of Scotland and vote No is beyond me. So I think it’s time that since Scotland decided it didn’t want to be a country, there shouldn’t be any symbolism to go with it. Get rid of the sports teams – no more Tartan Army or Rugby team, and have one UK team instead. Will I call myself a Scot anymore? Probably not. I think Northern Britton has a nice ring to it. Perhaps if there is ever another vote in my lifetime and the people vote Yes then I may change my mind, but I won’t get my hopes up.

    I expect to never hear another Scot blame the Tories or the English for their ills – it would be the most pathetic sight in the world. And I hope the Unionists in this campaign argue and campaign with equal passion for keeping the UK in the EU.



    A former Scot.

  281. Lesley-Anne says:

    Well well well. Milliband wants to reform the House of Lords. Don’t make me bloody laugh ya Muppet!

  282. ewen says:

    I was holding up well but it is all too much.I can’t stop greeting.

  283. manandboy says:

    Yes carfin on facebook have a 3 different videos of ballot fraud from last night

  284. Kevin Evans says:

    People think about it – when more than right now are you more proud to say you voted yes

  285. TJenny says:

    I meant an online ‘Private Aye’ magazine as it’d be cheaper.

  286. hadrianswall says:

    Constitution convention? Labour betraying us less than a day before the polls close.

  287. call me dave says:

    Slippage they are calling it down South. When is a vow not a vow? When unionists say it!

    They are delaying the jam until after the GE now.
    Many North British folk are too stupid it seems.

    Ed Miliband ( radio 5 a minute ago) promising a different jam today but not saying when, as he turns his face towards the English voters.

  288. TJenny says:

    I meant an online ‘Private Aye’ magazine as it’d be cheaper.

    BtP – have you checked your bamboo for ‘bugs’. 😉

  289. Andrew Morton says:

    Right, that’s it. I’ve never been a member of a political party in my life but after watching those gutless cowards voting for the Tories to tear us apart, I’ve decided to join the SNP it’s the only thing I can think of that will do anything to defend our country now and even if it’s only a small gesture, at least it’s something.

    The Labour Party is dead meat and unwilling to do anything to help us.

    I encourage every one of those reading this to do the same.

  290. thingy says:


    Your posts are appearing, Jenny. Seems like it’s taking a few minutes, though.

    Alex, all the best.

    Nicola as FM? Sounds pretty good to me.

  291. Viking Girl says:

    Words fail me, and that doesn’t happen often.
    I just heard that Salmond is standing down.
    You’re right about the gutlessness.
    Add ‘yella’ to that and spineless.
    I hope you’ll find a purpose for Wings.
    It’s been a great source of information and I’ll miss it.
    You’ve got talent, Stuart, and you use it well.
    Thanks for all your hard work.
    All the best.

  292. call me dave says:

    Conspiracy theories abound, Cameron wont deliver ‘powers’ and labour left holding the pig in the poke at the GE 2015.

    Wipeout for labour in Scotland. Surely not!

  293. Kevin evans says:

    Now is the time to be proud we voted yes

  294. CalumCarr says:

    @Flower of Scotland 5.05pm

    All my dreams broken!!

    Aye but one day ‘A Dream No More’ –

  295. Graeme Doig says:


    You’re not alone bud

  296. Robert Peffers says:

    @Valerie says: 19 September, 2014 at 5:09 pm:

    “I admire those who want to go on. Having just watched Alex Salmond resign, that is the tin lid for me.

    Och! Valerie, the SNP has a wealth of really excellent candidates in waiting for the leadership. Nicloa Sturgeon is a top quality political figure as is Stewart Hosie and I can think of a few others too. Make no mistake the SNP are far from being a one-man-band. Alex will certainly be missed but I have no doubt they have a very strong team.

    Mind you I’ve been through this course before. I’ve seen the coming and going of several great figures in many years of following the party.

  297. muttley79 says:


    Miliband did not address you as Bugger did he? 😀 😀 First time I have laughed since yesterday!

    On Salmond’s resignation, I think it is a good move. He was first elected in 1987, when even a devolved parliament seemed a long way off. He played a major role in 1997, I think he was at his peak then. Salmond came back in 2004 and look at the progress since. He took us to very nearly winning a referendum on independence. I think he has realised that he has taken us as far as he can. Sturgeon has developed into a quality politician, and has a lot of experience, particularly as Health minister, and for her fantastic efforts in the debates and campaigning in the indy referendum. I think she is ready to be FM, and leader of the SNP.

  298. Proadge says:

    Johann Lamont on state broadcaster radio (Scotlandshire channel) giving a characteristically bitter commentary on Alex Salmond’s resignation speech. Graceless to the end. A pigmy pontificating about a giant.

  299. Vestas says:

    I cannot believe the stupidity of a lot of what I read above.

    IT IS OVER for 5-10 years minimum people!

    We voted to be sontrolled by another country. End of story.

    If you care about people in the 15-20 year old bracket then advise them to leave the UK as the Scots backlash will (is already) be brutal within Westminster.

    We had the chance & we were too scared.

    That is the truth of the matter.

    We join Quebec as possibly the only region country ever to reject control in the last 50 years.

    I am ashamed to be a Scot & I have no other identity to fall back on.

  300. msean says:

    Thanks Mr Salmond. You have been a great FM. The dream will never die.

  301. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    Just back from the demo at the Scottish Parliament.
    I met a lot of good friends and was happy I went.

    There is a small flame still burning brightly.

  302. pitchfork says:

    Has anyone else received their own special email from Ed, or did I just get lucky?

    On 19 Sep 2014 16:55, “Ed Miliband” wrote:

    I am delighted and proud that the people of Scotland have made this historic decision to stay in the United Kingdom.

    This was a vote for social justice, for our NHS, and for unity — because we are better together.

    There must be stronger powers for the Scottish Parliament, but we must also change the way the UK is governed and who it is run for.

    We need more good jobs and job security. We need decent wages and an end to poverty pay. We need a better future for our young people so they can believe they can have a better life than their parents.

    There will be many across Scotland who are disappointed today. I am determined to show those people that the Labour Party can be the place for all our aspirations for fairness, our families and our country.

    The last few weeks have been about keeping our country together. The next eight months will be about showing how we can change our country together.

    There is only one party that can do it — and that is the Labour Party.

    Christopher — we need your help if we’re going to change this country. Are you with us?

    I responded that after consideration I though I would not be voting for the Tories or for their Little Helpers.

    No votes for the parties of No!
    Vote for the parties of Yes: SNP, SSP Green

    People might like to note the helpful contact email which I have left at the top of the quoted text. Pleased feel free to send your thought to Ed.


  303. pitchfork says:

    Sorry didn’t quite get the italics right above


  304. North chiel says:

    Scotland’s great statesman “done down”
    By cowards and ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s.

  305. Richard Bruce says:

    @call me dave

    Agreed, momentum must be kept up. They are hoping it will be forgotten by next spring. This whole pig in a poke thing is collapsing already.

    FFS… words cannot describe how I feel tonight.

  306. M4rkyboy says:

    I would rather be part of 45% that lost but stood tall as Scottish patriots than the 55% who cowered and call themselves Brits.
    Your shame wont be projected onto me cause you aren’t Scots,you are Brits.

  307. No no no...yes says:

    Devastated to hear about Alex Salmond. He has my heartfelt thanks for what he has achieved for SCOTLAND.

    The Vow has already been broken, when are the Scottish people going to get a grip of themselves?

    Scottish Labour must be made to pay the price for their actions:siding with the Tories and then this deceit,unforgiveable.

  308. Paul Miller says:

    Andrew Morton, I joined the SNP this afternoon.

  309. Joemcg says:

    Saw on my wife’s FB page a relative had been posting the usual ill informed BT pish for MONTHS was itching to intervene but stopped by the wife,of course the relative was cock a hoop last night.This morning her first post was “can’t wait for downton abbey on Sunday” I sicked up in my mouth…

  310. Wee Jonny says:

    What a 24 hours it’s been. We’ve lost our Yes, Stuart and then Alex. For now anyway. I’m so glad I took today off as I’m still too distraught to leave the house. Ironically it was a friend from England who last night wished me luck and asked me to tell him the result as he didn’t want to hear it from anyone else. He kept me up when I wanted to go to bed for a wee snooze but didn’t want to sleep past the result. And it was his messages of support that is still getting me all choked up now.

  311. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    My ex-teacher wife is at an event with a bunch of young people today.

    Every one of them voted YES.

    Every one of them is devastated.

    They are the future. They will continue the fight.

    Let us all, when we have finished greetin’, pick ourselves up and stay with them in the fight.

  312. Ronnie Leitch says:

    I said to Delaine if we win this referendum Alex will be the greatest Scot ever. Now I think he is.

  313. Lesley-Anne says:

    Well wouldn’t you know it. RED Ed is promising reform of the House of Lords. Don’t make us laugh Ed. We know that is as empty as every other promise and the rest of your ("Quizmaster" - Ed) brethren have promised. We all know you will do NOTHING because we all know that the HoL is where all good and upright TRUE Socialists go when they have screwed their electorate enough!

  314. indigo says:

    He’s stepping aside to empower Nicola so Scotland’s leader isn’t going into negotiations personally tarnished by defeat – Nicola won Glasgow and Glasgow said Yes.

    Analyse what he’s saying, this has the hallmarks of careful planning… if he becomes a politically active elder statesman he becomes untouchable and respected by the mainstream media, more dangerous to the establishment than he was as FM because he can be more vocal, and a rock for Nicola to take us the next part of the journey.

    The baton has been passed onto all of us. Stuart you’d better pick it up – you are very much needed.

  315. Grendel says:

    We can return an SNP majority at Westminster and declare ourselves independent!
    Highlight every broken promise.
    Shame every no voter when they complain about policy.
    I am heartbroken today, but the fight goes on.
    Thanks Stuart, and to all of you.

  316. fred blogger says:

    wot, not change the carpets again! 🙂

  317. fred blogger says:

    good idea get the SNP to put out candidates across the UK.

  318. Flower of Scotland says:

    I just got a letter from Ed Milliband inviting me to join and donate to the Labour Party!!!

    I have been having trouble posting for the last three days! I can’t submit a comment without re entering my email and user name EVERY time I comment and my comment only appears after some time!

    Ming and R Davidson …. No more about referendum for about 20 years ! Aye that,ll be right.

    The TV companies are deliberately missing out the fact that Cameron has reneged on ” The Vow”!

  319. balgayboy says:

    @ Chris Leishman

    Other than expecting a yes win I totally agree with you and I’m also proud of Dundee and the 2 other yes majority constituencies.

    For the rest of “Scotland” I am bewildered about their decision.

    If they now turn up at the future “Scotland” international sporting event singing FoS they will be rightly laughed out of the stadiums.

  320. Paula Rose says:

    Pick up the baton folks, get up and stand proud – I’m not giving up and neither are you.

    Now stop whinging and get positive – the high heels are in the bin and the battle boots are on.

  321. CameronB Brodie says:

    What kestral said at 4:25pm.

    One observation from campaigning. There was an alarming number of school kids that had swallowed Project Fear’s lies, completely. The BBC must be banned from schools, if we are to hope to staunch the Empire’s future reserves of shock troops. I also learned from other posters, that there is a problem of political bias in one of the teacher’s unions. We will need to do something about that, IMHO.

    Let’s not allow the abuse of our our children, especially not in schools.

  322. Chitterinlicht says:

    Not being funny but everyone should join the SNP

  323. Valerie says:

    I don’t dispute there are other talented politicians in SNP, but in my opinion, they do not have the tactical skill of Salmond. He engineered this perfect storm of timing, the populace let him down. I see nothing but a shitstorm, and ugliness ahead.

  324. scotspine says:

    Milliband et al will offer empty words in the short term and will / are turning their eyes on the General Election.

    Boris Johnson making waves, as is Farage. It looks like Brown just said stuff that he though sounded good without having any authority to do so.

    Scotland will quickly go to the back of the queue, make no mistake.

    Are we going to lay down and take it?

  325. Lesley-Anne says:

    fred blogger says:

    wot, not change the carpets again! 🙂

    If only it WAS the carpets getting changed Fred. At least THEN we’d all know something was ACTUALLY going to be getting done! 😛

  326. IcySpark says:

    Please join this Facebook page.

    Nearly 60,000 likes in 10 hours. We are the 45.

  327. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. This matter is not settled unless you accept what you have. I do not, can not, will not let this rest.

  328. call me dave says:


    You may have a good handle on the situation. I have met AS many times over the years. Honourable person and a true Scot.
    I thank him for all his work and passion.

    He’ll be a great asset watching from the sidelines and chipping in with his great acumen and long experience.

    I haven’t cried yet although I had a tear in my eye during the referendum day with all the heartfelt stories many posted.

    Just watching the unfolding of events and I see trouble ahead for the UK.

  329. balgayboy says:

    Wonder when that nut job and pretend hard man Ian Davidson is going to start bayoneting the wounded?

  330. Indigo says:

    Interesting watching the media coverage too, he’s taken control back and set the agenda for the news tonight, better together cannot be triumphant now, thunder stolen

    Plus banning the Mail, Telegraph, Express and FT from his press conference is just class, well done Alex

  331. Swami Backverandah says:

    Anybody getting email from Labour party should point them in the direction of the Red Tories facebook page.
    It’s doing brisk business – many commenters saying they are resigning from the party and will never vote Labour again.
    That should do the trick. 🙂

  332. call me dave says:


    Only a part of the populous let him down.
    I had a wee look at the last 5 minutes of high noon just a minute or two ago.

    We must have had the same think in our heads 🙂 or 🙁

  333. Achnababan says:

    Good bye Alex and thank you for taking us so far in this remarkable journey.

    I joined the SNP when Wilson was in charge and your vision coupled with brilliant strategic thinking and planning transformed our party from an inward looking political curiousity into the national party of Scotland.

    Although I am desperately sad to see you go, your political nose for timing remains spot on – those B£$stards were going to target you remorselessly, and we as a YES movement need to be on the front foot over the next 6 months.

    What a miserable f**ing day

  334. Paula Rose says:

    Wings does things at warp speed –

    As for Wings Over Scotland, we’ll be taking some much-needed time off before coming to a decision about whether the site will carry on or not. Right now it’s difficult to think of any useful purpose it can serve.

    Carry on.

  335. ChrisB says:

    The BBC just can’t help themselves, can they?

    Radio 4 at 5.30 p.m.:
    “Alex Salmond, the man who led the Yes campaign to defeat in the Scottish referendum, has resigned as SNP leader…”

    By 6 p.m. they’d toned it down:
    “The leader of the Scottish National Party, Alex Salmond, has resigned after failing to secure independence for Scotland…”

  336. castle hills chavie says:

    Cheers Bob.

    But I’m proud of all YES campaigners everywhere. But a special mention to those in Dundee, West Dunbartonshire, North Lanarkshire and my adopted city of Glasgow.

    Especially those in the last two, who’ve ripped a huge hole in the Labour heartlands, they’ve got to be bricking it that we can do that.

    I have no intentions of giving up, this is way to important, as I said earlier, Scotland didn’t lose, we just didn’t win……YET.

  337. bugsbunny says:

    Crocodile tears from Bernard PONCEnby and Ruth Davidson saying she’s gladcAlex Salmond is going. Now pish from Milliband. Glad I’ve not had my dinner yet as I would be throwing up.


  338. Richard says:

    It is glaringly obvious that a potential readership of 1.6 million Scots do not have a daily newspaper they can trust, we have been let down by all the mainstream media except the Sunday Herald.
    I have read WoS several times a day over the last few weeks and months, but – and I’m grateful for the good it has done – it isn’t a newspaper and it is online not a physical newspaper. Given the circulation figures (230K daily for the Sun down to about 2,500 for the Independent) there must be enough readers from the Yes camp who will buy and read a new Scottish independence minded newspaper. Having said that I don’t want a dull read afraid not to toe the party line!
    There must be someone able to do this, we have the readers, where is the newspaper?
    Somebody fill this gap please!

  339. I honestly have not felt this down since the day after the Peru game in 1978 – so much hope and expectation shattered in a wee bit more than an instant.

    OK – we can point to the brilliant job done by the mainstream media, in particular the BBC in peddling lies and misinformation. Those of us who wanted Independence were taking-on the entire might of the Westminster Establishment; we lost, but, we scared them shitless.

    OK – as we are already learning, we were lied to by the three Westminster parties, already they are back-tracking on their solemn promises of “further powers for Holyrood”.

    OK – too-many of us, and by us I mean my fellow ‘Baby Boomers’ put self-interest first and voted NO. Perhaps they were scared, maybe they bought all the scare stories about pensions not being paid, and so-forth.

    But, at the end of the day, maybe those of us in the ’45’ regardless of how much we did, and, on reflection, I could have done more, we simply didn’t do enough to offset the huge odds we were facing.

    However, as I posted more than once on here – Scotland has a long and disgraceful tradition of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    The unity of the Westminster parties will quickly vanish like snow off a dyke. By the time they have come through the stage-managed unity of their three party conferences, heard the: “Crush the Jocks” urgings of “Middle England”, it will be business as usual – with the “Sweaties” cast as subsidy junkies, grasping Jocks, too-wee, too-poor and too-ignorant to bother about.

    Yesterday was our Wallace moment – now is the time for our 21st century Bruce to emerge, and, I have a feeling that Bruce, like the 14th century one, will be from Ayrshire.

    And, this “Nippy Sweetie” will bite.

    FREEDOM is coming – it has merely been delayed for a year or two.

    Provided we, ‘The 45’ remember The Who and –

  340. manandboy says:

    Read recently, I’m sure many have too :-

    “It’s not who votes that counts

    But who counts the votes.”

  341. balgayboy says:

    No disrespect intended ChrisB, but FFS are we still listening/viewing to the corrupt organisation that was primarily instrumental in yesterday’s result?

  342. Tony says:

    For years the separatists have tried to divide us. To isolate us, to make us insular.

    Using divisive language and code words for the English in order to mask their bigotry, these nats have spent a life time trying to destroy our union.

    I voted against devolution, against tax raising powers and against the SNP at every turn. I lost all those battles, but today we have WON THE WAR.

    The nats are finished. They need to crawl back under their separatist rocks and never darken our doorstep again. We don’t want your divisive politics, we don’t want to be separated. We don’t want to build barriers.

    The tear-filled eyes of the nats, after months of shouty, mouthy, in-your-face ‘politics’ are a joy to behold. All your bluster and all your bluff ended up being as empty as Salmond’s policies.

    Today, we have rid the UK of this divisive oaf. A great scalp has been taken and a mortal blow delivered.

    Today, we are ALL British!

  343. Fiona says:

    Not had time to read all the posts but has anyone else got a billet doux from Mr Miliband?

    I got this an hour ago


    I am delighted and proud that the people of Scotland have made this historic decision to stay in the United Kingdom.

    This was a vote for social justice, for our NHS, and for unity — because we are better together.

    There must be stronger powers for the Scottish Parliament, but we must also change the way the UK is governed and who it is run for.

    We need more good jobs and job security. We need decent wages and an end to poverty pay. We need a better future for our young people so they can believe they can have a better life than their parents.

    There will be many across Scotland who are disappointed today. I am determined to show those people that the Labour Party can be the place for all our aspirations for fairness, our families and our country.

    The last few weeks have been about keeping our country together. The next eight months will be about showing how we can change our country together.

    There is only one party that can do it — and that is the Labour Party.

    Fiona — we need your help if we’re going to change this country. Are you with us?

    Yes – I’m with Labour

    Maybe – I haven’t made up my mind

    No – I support another party



    With this reply

    You have got to be joking. You have no commitment to any of the above, and that is easily seen on your party’s record in office. So far as I am concerned you are red tories at your core and you will never get my vote. You have no principles and no ideals and no relation to the labour party I grew up in.

    I do not know how you got this address, but please do not contact me again. It is clear you do not understand the meaning of privacy, either

  344. steph says:

    Stu, please keep going. A new media is the single most important thing we need now.
    Do we need to set up a petition to you on 38 degrees or something? 😉

  345. Fiona says:

    @ Tony.

    Nobody tried to divide me from people like you:you did that all by yourself. You are frankly despicable:a sore loser and a sore winner. There is no humanity in you nor in any of your kind. And that is nothing to do with the referendum.

  346. Paula Rose says:

    Is it OK for me to start eating trolls again? Come here silly little Tony – you tit.

  347. ChrisB says:

    @balgayboy: I know, I know…

  348. Kevin evans says:

    I hate using a “brave heart” quote but ya know the scene when the Bruce realises what he’s done when he knows Wallace off his horse – he masked the remark about the look in wallaces eyes and he will not be on the wrong side again.

    Hopefully enough no’s will have that moment of awaking.

  349. manandboy says:

    Already got 2 new members for the SNP.

    If the 45% who voted Yes, 1.6 million,

    want to put pressure on Westminster,

    then make the SNP a million member party.

    Just do it –

    for a year.

    Not only will you feel a little better

    right now, can you think of anything better ?

  350. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @ Socrates MacSporran says:
    Yesterday was our Wallace moment – now is the time for our 21st century Bruce to emerge, and, I have a feeling that Bruce, like the 14th century one, will be from Ayrshire.

    And, this “Nippy Sweetie” will bite.

    FREEDOM is coming – it has merely been delayed for a year or two.

    I like your style.


  351. manandboy says:

    Ps . Here’s the link

    You can join for £1 a month – or pay more if you want.

  352. ben madigan says:

    was at work all day so coming late to offer some thoughts.
    just want to say thanks to Stu for the tremendous work he and his team at Wings did. The diverse proposals of continuing an online/paper alternative news media are interesting and worth exploring but depend on how Stu feels about getting involved again for a long, slow haul – at least until Scotland sees how things shake down after 2016.
    At least scotland does not have to combat the censorship Ireland had to put up with in her struggle for freedom in the 19th – early 20th century.

    comparisons with ireland are inevitable – even the names Redmond and Salmond resonate. both failed to get Home rule/independence by parliamentary means.

    was shocked at the result of the referendum and Mr salmond’s resignation. Some poster compared him to the irish patriot Parnell and it’s a fair comparison.
    This defeat reminds me of the Fenians in ireland – their armed rising failed and when the leaders eventuallyemerged from prison they split into 3 groups (land reform and parliamentary, constitutional activity (role of the SNP), the physical force tradition which does not exist in scotland and the cultural movement (hamish henderson and heirs) to emphasise Scottishness and differentiate from Englishness/ the meantime be aware of incoming Anglicization!!
    If anyone is interested i posted a trilogy about the fenian movement called Phoenix rising some months ago which illustrates what happened and how the movement moved through several changes with the circumstances until they achieved what they wanted.

    in other words what I am saying is that in my view the Scottish Independence Movement has to re-group, work out its strategy and take advantage of circumstances to get the overwhelming support of the people of Scotland. this will all take time but rome was not built in a day!!

  353. Kevin evans says:

    Paula rose don’t block them – let them show on here there true colours

  354. ewen says:

    After the long dry stretch it absolutely bucketed down from this morning. My youngest daughter said God was crying for Scotland.

    As Stu pointed out, the no vote was relying on a promise. That promise is broken already. I think we have to get ready to fight again… Soon.

  355. Paula Rose says:

    I don’t block them – I eat them.

  356. tonymac says:

    stv just seen bnpnazis threaten yessers

  357. Gallowglass says:

    They are not going to let this happen again soon.

    How can the SNP stand on a manifesto for independence when they have said that they wouldn’t seek another one for a lifetime?

    I do realise our part of the political spectrum will remain with belief, but we are losing the political implements to do it. Who knows the electoral impact this will have on the SNP, even stuffing Westminster full of SNP MP’s will achieve nothing. It’s the feeble 50 all over again and the notion they could declare Scotland independent unilaterally wouldn’t get far. We’re never going to achieve this under FPTP anyway.

    I doubt Holyrood will be strengthened, and I suspect any further devolution will curtail the ability of Holyrood to do so. Or a unionist party of coalition will.

    It’s a shame but I have an impression this is going to be a lot harder to move on from politically than some might think.

  358. balgayboy says:


    Only the no voting grave dodgers and the pro-union groupies purchase the toilet paper that masquerades as the Scottish MSM. The rest of the sensible population read the truth online which is in keeping with the 21st Century.

  359. Cal says:

    Stu, you have been magnificent and we would never have got to 45% without your tireless work. You gave us so much ammunition to use on the doorsteps. Personally, I have spoken to hundreds of people and I’m certain I’ve converted dozens. I’m sure many others who read this blog have done likewise and I salute you and everyone who has disseminated the truth in every possible way.

    Hatred, deceit, racism, bigotry, selfishness and fear have triumphed but only through the complicity of the media and the establishment’s filthy money. We can all be proud that we were able to see through their poison and did what we could to spread the truth to our fellows. We know the truth, we have dignity, we will never forget we will never forgive.

  360. ailsa craig says:

    I am a baby boomer and hopefully dodging the coffin for a long time yet. Please do not insult the big number of us bbs down here in SW Ayrshire who canvassed, held meetings, manned the stall and stood outside the 3 polling booths in shifts all day yesterday.
    We tried our best with the probably 70, maybe 75 upwards age group but they were obsessed with their pensions and nothing moved them. Same with the farmers and those from the newer Slab estate houses. We did kind of exit surveys and the results were surprising. You might be surprised too and not condemn so quickly.
    I have not been in touch with anyone of our group today, because I know how hard they worked and think they would just have sep, male and female. I am assuming you are feeling very down too and said these comments without thinking.

  361. fittie says:

    The worst kind of no voter is those who say “its the wrong time “

  362. fittie says:

    I heard one guy on tv say “I want independence but its the wrong time ”

    that drives me mad

  363. tonymac says:


  364. balgayboy says:

    “I want independence but its the wrong time ” Regardless of Independence these upstanding people would usually say the same when they need to make decision about having a shit.

  365. EphemeralDeception says:

    Having recoverred from my initial depressed emotions a fzw thing are clear.

    It is really important to recognise that the older generation were scared into voting No on one hand AND just couldnt give a fuck changing anything on the other.

    But they are on the way out. We can ensure through social media and time that the YES generation will prevail.

    Stu we need you to keep the torch burning!! You are not a 1 man band. The Yes movement can continue with diverse sources for the new gen. We can get there.

    Keep the heed! The young Scottish generation needs you.

  366. thingy says:

    Tony Baloney @ 6:15

    We aren’t going anywhere, Tony. Strap yourself in.

  367. fittie says:

    business as usual ,just heard a tory MP on the news say no more English money to subsides Scotland

  368. Kirsty says:

    Bwahahaha Tony, there’s nothing like a Z list troll to lighten the mood. Thank you very much, I needed that lift; now away run off and play with your toy train and leave the trolling to the big boys.

  369. As a Jambo (I was there in 86) this is hard for me to say but `Well Done Dundee`
    great respect to all you lads and lassies.

    And also you lot from Glasgow for freeing yourselves from those scum Scottish Labour.

  370. David says:

    Can I maybe suggest a BBC bias to Charity ( ironically BBC as well)? The TV license saved put towards the food banks, or a truly independent media outlet. I am not writing too much, since I don’t want to appear bitter. Watching the BBC just now, and the “vows” are already unraveling. The next party that gets voted in is going to be crucified for the cuts that will NEED to be made. Maybe vote in a party that the Scottish won’t feel too bad about hating.

  371. Joe Swan says:

    On George Square.

    The F’n BBC will report it as “High spirits at Better Together grassroots family night out”

    Lamont, “That looks like a football type of thing”.

    You should know, your members were sharing platforms with them and appearing beside them on political ads.

    F right off Lamont. We see you. This is what happens when you give fascists a voice.

  372. Paula Rose says:

    Kirsty dear – he’s all mine, I’m waiting x

  373. John O says:

    Well it’s like someone shredding your heart and soul infront of your face but for some reason you stretch the hand out to grab one atom sized piece back, so as to reinsert it back into your being and then the rebuild starts again.

    I would like to rename what was once my city Aberdeen to nodeen from now on.

    They use to say that Scotland was the tail that wagged the dog, well it’s now known as the dingle berry on the dogs backside, at least we now know why we all smell something weird.

    Whats next well total destruction of the labour party 2015 can be a start.

  374. squirrel says:

    Thank you.
    This English girl who’d lived in Scotland less than a year and previously found the idea of independence bewildering voted yes last night because of this site.

  375. balgayboy says:

    I will watch and listen in great delight at all yesterdays no voters squealing when their “Scottish” pristine fresh water is privatised and being piped down to their “Imperial Masters” to quench the thirst of their beloved masters overpopulated zero hour contract population and to sustain the tory/labour billionaire’s fracking programmes.

  376. Tony says:

    thingy says:
    19 September, 2014 at 6:50 pm
    We aren’t going anywhere, Tony. Strap yourself in.

    You will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

    This was your moment, everything aligned for you. Disillusionment with Westminster politics at an all time high and people fed up with the same old same old. You even had animosity from the residual effects of austerity to tap into.

    You gave kids the vote in a hope this would be a winner for you.

    You tapped into the poor areas because these were the easiest people to manipulate. You told them they were poor because of the English.

    Yet with all of this, you didn’t really even get near breaking the Union.

    And what now for the nats? I say melt away and don’t come back. You will never have this opportunity again because the next time you get a chance to vote, the Oil reserves will have been depleted and you won’t have an Oil-based argument for independence.

    I was confident in the silent majority. The in-your-face separatists were a vocal minority and a rather intellectually devoid one too.

    Your movement is dead, your so-called ‘charismatic’ leader is gone.

    I love Britain, the monarchy, the flag and Britishness.

    Salmond and your lot have been sent homewards tae think again 😉

  377. ChrisC says:

    Please keep going. Now is the time we really need Wings Over Scotland, as yesterday now turns out to have been just another step on the long road. As I see it, we need to:

    1. Work to kick out as many Tory, Lib Dems and Labour MPs from Scotland as possible at the 2015 Westminster election;
    2. Do the same again in the 2016 Holyrood election;
    3. Fight tooth and nail to stay in the EU in the next referendum in 2017 or 2018;
    4. Monitor and expose as much as possible of the MSM agenda to go back on the Devo Max vow (not that it was worth anything and isn’t going to happen in any useful form, so might as well score as many points against them as possible);
    5. Campaign against the BBC as they’re no longer even pretending to be neutral, they’re just another state mouthpiece;
    6. Long term planning and foundation laying for another referendum.

    I think we could have another referendum within 5-10 years. It could be triggered by the backlash as soon as it’s clear to the wider public that the Devo Max proposals were a lie, and also if Scotland is forced out of the EU against its will. If the political landscape is changed in a big way then a new Scottish vote will be needed.

  378. Paula Rose says:

    Oil income for the rich Tony? Are you one of them?

  379. Rosina Cargill says:

    The Sky News video that’s being shown of the Dundee count centre with No piles at a section marked NO but seems to have yes voting papers among them, how genuine?

  380. Paula Rose says:

    btw traced your gravatar.

  381. Epiphyta says:


    Instead of blaming the older folk, blame the masses of the “I’m alright Jocks” of all ages, who cannot see that they are one personal disaster from being in the same boat as the very people they despise, the poor, the disadvantaged and the vulnerable.

    A man I know — I would have called him a friend before yesterday — voted “No” for the sake of the Union and his mortgage. He and his wife have three children with expectations of going to uni; I privately wished him luck finding the money for their fees, as surely that will be coming soon.

    My son’s father was Scots, and left our boy his stubbornness and his kilt. I’m glad I didn’t have to watch his face as the vote was counted. Our son was already planning to come and stay with me as he does his graduate degree, and I’d found a kiltmaker to make repairs so that he could wear it. He’s told me now there’s no great hurry.

    He had such hopes of going back and working in his field, and now he’s saying he might stay here after. While I’d be glad to have him close, my heart is broken for him and all the others like him, especially those who don’t have the accident of birth that gave him dual citizenship.

    I’m sorry, I can’t say any more.

  382. ewen says:

    Ha Ha. First laugh of the day. Ha ha, right in yer gloating face.
    You are a joke. Ha Ha ha

  383. Paula Rose says:

    ewen dear, don’t mock the afflicted.

  384. Niall says:

    If no one but the electorate with an interest (the 45%) (because the mainstream media won’t be) is watching Westminsiter break their promises, if no one is collecting that anger, and dissapointment, then it may as well not exist.

    What the Yes Campaign has spawned is a number of different off shoots, at least some of them can continue to channel that anger and disappointment then that is a good continuation.

    ’till next time. IT might not be as long as we think.

  385. ewen says:

    Sorry Paula Rose.
    It was bad of me but I couldn’t help it.

  386. Kirsty says:

    Paula Rose,

    I’ll let you have him only because I’m sure you’ll use your high heels to good effect. x

  387. Midgehunter says:

    It looks as if the scumbag No lurkers are enjoying their gloating.

    We haven’t gone away, we will be back.

  388. bald eagle says:

    caught a rich bitch looking for and buying out of date food to hand into a foodbank

    what did she buy two small cans of butter beans for 10 pence she then asked the cashier where the nearest foodbank was and was told by my other half she should hang on to them she will need them once the cuts come

    the bitch said look dear i’m ok my husbands earns a very good income he’s a QC

    my other half said well he will probably get legal aid when the poor raid you’r house the blood drained from her face and she quickly put the tins back and asked for her money back

    on the way out we stopped and said see this trolley of food first thing in the morning its going straight into a foodbank
    to rub salt into the bitch my partner said can i ask you are you really his wife because you are not the lady he brought into the office the other day and she had class

    my god it was me that nearly dropped dead i wont be going out tonight

  389. Ron says:

    fittie says:
    19 September, 2014 at 6:45 pm
    The worst kind of no voter is those who say “its the wrong time “

    No fittie, the worst kind of no voter is the one I’ve come across on another forum who said “Of course I think Scotland has what it takes to be a successful independent country and I think it should be an independent country, just not with Alex Salmond in charge. That’s why I voted no.”

    A verbatim quote there. It makes me weep.

  390. Tom Foyle says:


    Since you’re obviously stinking rich, how about a large donation to the food banks for those of us who can’t afford to eat on a daily basis?

    Thought not.

  391. Paula Rose says:

    Tom Foyle – Tony is not rich, he is too busy organising events in George Square.

  392. Sean B says:

    Stuart; I’m very grateful to you for the service you provided the Scottish people over the course of this referendum. I think it will be a great loss should you decide not to continue in some way following this sad event, but I can understand that if your heart is no longer in it, having been broken (as is mine currently), and respect that decision.

    In a land where the main stream media was all reading from the same page, you provided us with a fresh perspective, frequently interspersed with humour as well which made it a joy to read.

    Wishing you well for the future, whatever you decide.

  393. thingy says:

    Tony Lonely @ 1690

    The dustbin of history awaits us all, Mr Baloney. Some of us will go there with our heads held high.

  394. frazer allan whyte says:

    I live in a different time zone and haven’t been able to follow all the threads but maybe that makes me more objective (but nonetheless disappointed).

    First of all – did you really expect the evil empire (and I really do believe it is evil to the core)to play fair and go quietly?

    Secondly, did you really expect a population that has been subject to a colonial mentality for three centuries to change so entirely so quickly?

    Thirdly, no real Newspaper or tv supported or was even fair to your cause.

    45! percent of the vote! The largest urban area in Scotland strongly YES and nowhere in Scotland less than a third of the vote. Vast swaths of the population politically conscious for the first time. Lying leaders utterly exposed. You don’t seem to realize what wonders you have accomplished.

    Leslie-Anne and Hamilton are right now is NOT the time to give up.

    Rev… take a well-earned rest but not a long one and come back and be a leader of the resistance because a resistance will be sorely needed because we all know what an Englishman’s promise is worth (not racist – they don’t even keep promises to their own people.)

    The faithful 45 will need lots of support and help and even the faithless 55 are Scots and however foolish, annoying, ignorant or self-centred are our people. How would any of us be if we were abandoned to our own silly selves if we made a bad – very bad – decision?

    45% is an immensely strong base to build a future on. There is no party in all the Benighted Kingdom who can claim such strength. So everybody man-up (I don’t know the non-sexist term for this – please enlighten me)- take a (short) break and join the resistance and free Scotland town by town, institution by institution,, firm by firm, family by family – and show the waverers and fainthearted that one defeat – no matter how horrendous- does not mean the war is lost.

    Again Rev … take a well-earned break and then PLEASE get back to the forefront where you are needed to rally the troops and necessary to expose the enemies’ lies. You are one of the people thrown up by history to MAKE history. Your “troops” will be ready and waiting.

  395. Alan McHarg says:

    For as long as but 45% of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under Westminster rule. It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man/woman gives up but with life itself.

    We have lost the battle, but the war continues. Many want to build on this momentum, continue the fight and win the war and our freedom. Join us!

  396. Blair paterson says:

    So the bad guys won ,what’s new ?we just have to fight on Wallace and Bruce had their set backs but they carried on with the fight and won in the end ,or what of John Paul Jones who when his ship was badly mauled he was called on by the British to surrender I have not even begun to fight he replied and went on to win ,we can do the same ,I would like to quote you a wee poem I made up sometimes late at night ,when I think of Scotland’s plight ,I shed a silent tear ,but come the dawn the fight goes on ,we will beat them yit nae fear . , please don’t give up Stuart god bless you I thank you and salute you

  397. N. A. says:

    As a saudi with weirdly placed scottish pride I’m sorry for the result of the vote, I don’t mean to be nosy and I know it’s none of my business but I care about people and there was so much hope with a yes vote.
    Once again the media propaganda wins.
    Hope that somehow things will get better.

  398. Croompenstein says:

    British Tony away and have a chug ower Thatchers picture you ballsack

  399. Kirsty says:


    Am I the only one that’s enjoying the trolls? I know I’m wrong to do it but they’re like someone flipping you the bird just before they fall into a canal. It’s hilarious to watch them crowing when you know they’re about to get the full Doc Marten boot of Westminster right in the whatsits.

    Frankly, I’m just petty enough to tell them that I and others warned them repeatedly. And I’ll remind them of it, repeatedly. ;-p

  400. ewen says:

    “The campaign continues and the dream will never die.”

    Alex, ya clever rogue. Your message is on the bottom of every news channel.

  401. CameronB Brodie says:

    Cumbawamba – British Colonialism and the BBC

    IMO, any Scot who continues to pay the TV license, supports the enemy of the people and is no friend of mine.

  402. Sonja says:

    Stuart, thank you so much for all that you’ve done. Without you the YES campaign would have been much less well informed and wouldn’t have had all these resources to point out to undecided voters. This website has been a godsend (well, if I believed in god).
    We’re all depressed now, and it may take a while to get out of that hole. Also you deserve a break.
    But I hope that in a wee while, you’ll start doing again what you’ve been doing so well all this time: show up the hypocrisy of the politicians and the lies of the press. We’ll continue to fight and we need the facts you can give us.

  403. Lesley-Anne says:

    Man I love that story BA. If you don’t mind I’d love to post it on my Facebook page 🙂

  404. Sunshine says:

    Croompenstien at 8,09pm
    Now that is my kind of black humour on a dark day.

  405. Robert Peffers says:

    Tony says:19 September, 2014 at 6:15 pm:

    “Today, we are ALL British!

    Unionists are like London busses – there’ll be another idiot along in a minute – and here it comes – the quintesentially, thick as the proverbial twa short planks, Tony.

    I do not as a rule bother with trolls but I’ll make an exception in this idiots case.

    Question: Why is Tony thick as twa short planks?
    Answer: He is the typiocal thick Unionist who is totally ignorant. His parting shot is hilarrious :-
    “Today, we are ALL British!
    Indeed Tony today we certainly are all British.
    And yesterday we were all indeed British.
    Tomorrow we will all still indeed all be British too.

    Now take myself for example, Tony. I was Born British of British parents for I was born in Scotland, (before WWII).
    Every day of my life I have been British and I will remain British till the day I die. Even then my rotting corps will be British and my bones will continue to be British too and when I turn to dust the dust will be British.

    That, Tony is because every one born in Britain is British. The people in the Non-United Kingdom Republic of Ireland are British. The people in the non-United Kingdom Bailiwick of Jersey are British. The people in the non-United Kingdom Bailiwick of Guernsey are British. The people in the non-United Kingdom of Isle of Man are British too. Thick Tony has made a typical Unionist error – he thinks that the United Kingdom is the only part of the archipelago of Britain that is British. Strange thing, Thick Tony, is that after Scotland becomes independent from the three country Kingdom of England the people of Scotland will still remain British and, as the United Kingdom is a bipartite union, it is the United Kingdom that will cease to exist as bipartite unions return to the Status Quo Ante when they disunite upon losing either one of their two partners. Take a bit of advice, Thick Tony, we Scottish people who seek to become independent of our English friends do so as much for the good of the English, Welsh and N. Irish as we do for ourselves and we are going nowhere in the near future What will be going somewhere are the Tory, Labour and LibDem party hacks in many areas of the Scottish part of Britain. The promises of jam tomorrow cannt be good and are already falling apart. The poor frightened Scots who voted NO are going to be very, very angry when the next set of elections for either Westminster or Holyrood come along. The Union’s jaikit hings oan a gie shooglie nail.

  406. Paula Rose says:

    CameronB honey – you are one of the friendliest boys I’ve ever met! You were so appreciative of my heels when we first met xx

  407. Tony says:

    Dry your eyes guys.

    I note the last act of the demagogue was to ban various media from attending his resignation/running away speech.

    Is this the kind of independent democracy he was after? where debate is stifled by the leaders placing bans on media?

    Good riddance and I hope the British people have a good night in George Square. Time to reclaim that site. The nats have been squatting there for too long.

  408. Paula Rose says:

    Bloomin’ ‘eck Robert – I’m already half-way through his liver!

  409. McV says:

    I will not be cancelling my subscription Stuart.
    What you did for us in monitoring and analysing the media and the politicians during the campaign can still be continued.

  410. thingy says:

    I too enjoy the odd troll, Kirsty. And Tony is very odd.

    *Basil Brush rubbish jokes*


  411. Paula Rose says:

    Hello Tony – I was correct then darling.

  412. bald eagle says:


    you are posting ok i can read all you’re posts

  413. Andrea says:

    It was a long and sleepless night; the tension was nearly not bearable. And to see the results coming in with more and more no votes was devastating. When all the results were in, I felt gutted, heartbroken, angry, furious, disappointed and absolutely defeated. But are we???

    After a few hours sleep and a lot of thinking I came to the conclusion that we are anything but. I am a German living since 3 ½ years in Scotland. I love to live here; I love the people, the landscapes, the cities, the nature, the history… but most of all the spirit of the people. And this spirit will carry us to independence, not today, but with all of us working together in the near future.

    Scotland has experienced such an interest and movement in politics and especially in their own future, this movement is unstoppable. With all of us working together we will reach our goal and gain finally independence. It will be a rocky road, no doubt, but the goal is worth putting up with it.

    Scotland has all what it takes to not only be independent, but also to be extremely successful in being so. The country has not only huge amounts of oil (I assume in a few days they will announce the find of new large oil fields, what they have kept from the public so far), other industries are like tourism, food and drink, electronics, ship building, construction etc, the list could go on and on and on. So far Scotland is the 14th wealthiest country in the world, with independence it could be under the top 10 or even top 5, never forget that.

    We have to make sure that in the next referendum (and there will be a next one) the other 55% are better informed about what will happen in an independent Scotland. The pensioners need to know that their pension is safe and won’t be cut, that Scotland doesn’t really need a currency union (Scotland can have its own Scottish Pound, secured by the money from the oil fund, taxes etc like Norway), that Scotland has a thriving economy. We have all what it takes and more. There is so much support from other countries pouring into Scotland. People fear that Scotland won’t be allowed in the EU, but forget that folk like Farage (I can’t say here publically what I am thinking of this disgrace or he might sue me the b*****d) wants the UK to leave the EU by 2017. Scotland on its own would be welcomed into the EU as a massive contributor, so don’t be fooled. And the Scandinavian countries would also welcome us in a Nordisk League, so no reason to be fearful.

    Scotland has also a vast amount of renewable energy, which could not only power the country, but be as well a new industry for export. Scotland’s fishing grounds are one of the best in Europe or even the world; the farms produce world class products. But to keep it this way we have to protect our environment, the land and the sea. We have to protect it from nuclear weapons, and we have to protect it from fracking. It can’t be that a landowner is not allowed to stop or protest against it. That would be something on what the lawyers have to look at and even bring it to the European Court. When we allow fracking, we destroy the country and landscape as we know it, it would be a danger to the communities (look at England, why do you think that they get now earthquakes and these massive sinkholes???), it would also destroy fresh water reservoirs (Scotland is renown for its excellent water) and landscapes like Loch Lomond, a huge tourist attraction. Do we want that??? I say no!!!

    Westminster is already planning the revenge, be prepared and stand up against it. We have to keep up the fight for independence, when we all stand together and inform people about our chances to be successful in this world, we can do it. It will be hard work, but we have come so far, we can do the last step. Keep the momentum going and growing!!!

    And a word to Alex Salmond, we can’t thank you enough for all your hard work. It was your dream which brought us to this stage. Don’t stand down; the fight for independence is not over yet. We are all behind you and by your side, we won’t give up, and we would like to have you amidst us, you gave so many people hope and a reason to stand up, keep it going. We are not defeated, it was only a backlash, but united we can make this country to one of the best in the world. Let’s do this!!!

  414. Irene Campbell says:

    Thanks for all the great work Stu. Salmond says: “The real guardians of progress are not the politicians at Westminster, or even at Holyrood, but the energised activism of tens of thousands of people who I predict will refuse meekly to go back into the political shadows.” We need focal points like Wings to keep the energy and momentum going.

  415. @Robert Peffers
    I wonder what Thick Tony thinks the Great in Great Britain means ?
    He seems to be thicker than the rest.

  416. Paula Rose says:

    The country that quite definitely is.

  417. Robert Peffers says:

    @Paula Rose says: 19 September, 2014 at 6:36 pm:

    “I don’t block them – I eat them.

    It is, though, Paula Rose, an aquired taste.
    I tried feeding then to, “The Dug”, but it gave her the skitters and the stench was so bad I had to keep, “The Dug”, in the garage for three days. Another down side is they tend to give those who eat them warts in strange places. Seems it makes sitting down rather uncomfortable.

  418. TJenny says:

    I see ‘The 45’ has its own Twitter account #the45- hope whoever’s making the spider and web 45 badges puts a link to buy them on there.

    The #indyref is being flooded with arabic tweets with links that don’t exist – what’s that all about?

  419. Martin says:

    I’m getting my “45” badge sorted as we speak.

    We must always look to learn something from these events. I’ve certainly learned something about the kind of man I want to be. And the kind of man I don’t. I solemnly vow that if I reach old age I will never stop the changes that will benefit the younger generations. People aged 16-55 voted for change, people 55-100 voted for their own comfort.

    I do not want to be a man who votes for my own comfort. I want to vote for the opportunities of the young.

  420. AdamWelshGuy says:

    Ive been a new reader to WOS, but in my defence I am Welsh – but also in my defence we are a nation who live on defeat. I can understand the weariness, and understand you need time to heal and regroup but there is a purpose for you all…

    In even the strongest NO regions, you polled a sizable enough vote that if you can harvest can hold candidates for the 2015 GE to real account. It may not involve forming a new party just yet, but may involve being a mobilised, dynamic group that openly challenges the lies from the candidates publicly and frequently. When the lie is fully revealed that they have no intention of keeping to any timetable, you can be the ones who ensure this treachery is never forgotten. Lets be honest, as far as WM is concerned the rebellious Scots are crushed, and now they have to appease the newly awoken English movements to devolution whilst paying our shameful Welsh AM’s their 30 pieces of silver…

    These days will be dark, it is true – but you have already challenged westminster domination in a way unparalleled in history – and the momentum is there. The lie must never be allowed to hide in the darkness in the next few weeks – every broken promise, every weaselly mealy mouthed word must be exposed to the sunlight and etched in stone.

    This is not the end. Its not even the beginning of the end. Its the end of the beginning. We in Wales utterly rejected devolution in 1979 by a huge margin. It was a 50.3% yes in 1997 but a 60.3% yes in 2011 to more powers. The movement and impetus is yours to take. Carpe Diem.

  421. Croompenstein says:

    Thick British Tony will be sitting with his wee union jack jammies oan spanking the monkey to photos of Dishface and Gideon, the union is a busted flush TBT onwards the 45 😀

  422. Paula Rose says:

    Croompenstein – you wouldn’t believe how far the wee Tony will go to not feel my wrath – oh joy!

  423. bald eagle says:


    go ahead use it if you want the bitch stays in a gated estate and some of her friends reads wings

    she wears specks that look like re-entry heat shields off the space shuttle

  424. Chitterinlicht says:

    The Scottish people had 2 years to come to a conclusion on YES or NO.

    The majority of those that voted voted NO.

    No matter how much I find this hard to take they voted to remain in the UK and be a region governed from Westminster.

    I cannot really see a way round this now as anything less than full independence is a sham and will just put extra pressure on devolved Scottish Parliament to raise taxes to keep our “free benefits’

    I think that was it our only chance. Well played the establishment clap clap.

    Been an amazing journey and thanks to all especially the Rev Stu.

  425. CameronB Brodie says:

    Paula Rose
    I hadn’t figured you as the kiss and tell kind, Paula. That will be my provincial naivety showing through. 😉

  426. fionan says:

    Quinie from Angus, your idea about an ongoing weekly/monthly Best of Wings pamphlet/ mag is a great idea to counteract the constant MSM feed. It is the complete lack of analysis of the unionist/establishment lies and myths that has resulted in our misinformed feartie cringing population who just cant see the exciting possibilities of independence and creating our own society. I have felt so low and sick all day like so many others, almost but not quite ready to give up, and your post, your well-thought out plan of action has boosted my mindset back towards believing that no, its not all over yet, and there are elections coming up where we need to have a strong voice. Thank you for sharing your idea, I hope it will be taken forwards by those woth the necessary skills – Stuart, don’t desert us, we need your input for a long time to come. One day we WILL win.

  427. pitchfork says:

    Bgger the Panda. I got an email from Ed too. Did you fill in the hilarious Labour Party on-line survey on the referendum a while back? I think that must be where they got my email address.


  428. Paula Rose says:

    fionan – no one of any import is going anywhere, now we build upon what we have learnt, it was never going to be that easy – we are up against the people who have no idea of the havoc they are unleashing. They believe their own lies.

  429. Jim says:

    I have never seen such vitriol directed towards one man or so much negativity directed towards an idea. The behaviour of the London-based media has appalled me and so the Voice of Reason I have consistently turned to has been the Rev Stu. And so I ask, please don’t go. This has been a dry run. It may not be this month, it may not be this year. but I think we’re going to see a rerun. We can’t beat the finances or the power of the London-based press, but your alternative viewpoint has given me the facts I’ve needed to make my own mind up. Rev Stu, I salute you.

  430. Mary Butler says:

    My son and I are sitting reading these comments in New Zealand with tears in our eyes. Scott is aged 11 and he is learning about democracy at school. His father and older brother are both in Scotland for the election. We are so sad that people can be ruled by fear, rather than by hope. Imagine if people knew that only good could come from making brave decisions to rule their own lives. This decision goes beyond Scotland, there were so many of us hoping that the ‘there is no choice’ brigade would be shown to be wrong.

  431. Kirsty says:

    Tony, pet, no one is trying to ban or stifle you – we’re simply laughing at you. There’s a difference. Feel free to drop by and comment whenever you like and we’ll STILL laugh at you.

    P.S. You might have missed it but Glasgow is a “Nat” city – you won’t be reclaiming anything, buster. ;-p

  432. Dorothy Devine says:

    Am so sorry that Mr Salmond has resigned , though I am not surprised considering all the shite heaped on him from cretins leading the Labour /Tory/Liberal party in Holyrood to the three ” C”s Cochrane ,Carroll and Crighton.
    I wouldn’t pee on them if they were on fire.

    I have made a list of those that I dislike enough to make plasticine models and pin them in places they would not like to be pinned. I have made a list of companies and their products that I will no longer use , including newspapers.

    I spoke to distraught neighbours today too many to mention.

    BTW I too am of the ancient variety of YESSER.

  433. Paula Rose says:

    Kirsty honey – chill, be nice to folk xx

  434. Big Del says:


    Hoy Britain is an Island.
    Named by the Romans. Brittania . You have a song in it’s name ffs.

    Even if the EBC and their pals never got their way, and we had voted yes::::::

    WE WOULD still be British. Get that into your fat thick bigoted skull!!!!! DICK

  435. Peter says:

    Guys, the fight is no where near over yet, look what at I was just linked: Come on we have to get this as much momentum as possible, we can still fix this.

  436. M says:

    So heartbroken and mourning what could have been: the progressive nation characterised by self determination, democracy, social justice and a foreign policy that doesn’t look like state terrorism.

    So much thanks is due to you Rev for all the work you have done. You did what the so-called journalists failed to do. Our MSM failed us in the extreme with its Stepford dolls and Mr Ben-Men who for the most part read out loud for a living and will never bite the hand that feeds them.

    Wings gave us real food for thought, real analysis, intelligent insight and detailed research. And you created a community around you. One which cared – and still cares.

    The Yes campaign had a vision of what the future could be. The future we now face still has to be lived and we can either accept it or try to shape it for the best. As we all know Martin Luther King had a dream and was killed for it – but the dream lived on. I’m sure you can see what I’m saying.

    You and the team of Wings have served a need – the need for more and better information. I so hope that after the grieving and the darkest hours that you may find the energy to carry on the phenomenal work you have done. We need a new media and I hope you and the likes of Bella, Derek Bateman, Wee Ginger Dug etc will all be part of it.

    Sorry too that Salmond will step down. I liked him. I believe he really cared and thought he was a phenomenal politician who we may never see the like of, for a very long time.

    This is hard, but there is a grass roots of intelligent, impassioned people who I believe will not let the future be solely determined by those whose fears and self interest will rule their every judgement.

  437. Robert Peffers says:

    @Gallowglass says:19 September, 2014 at 6:40 pm:

    “How can the SNP stand on a manifesto for independence when they have said that they wouldn’t seek another one for a lifetime?

    There is more than one way to skin a moggy, Gallowglass.

    It was Salmond who said he wouldn’t seek another referendum soon but Salmond is tepping down.
    Westminster always quotes English law but English law doesn’t apply in Scotland. They say that Westminster has sovereignty over Scotland but only the Kingdom of England’s three countries became a Constitutional Monarchy in 1688 in the English Glorious Revolution.

    Scotland remained an independent Kingdom until 1707 and the English claim there was a Jacobite Revolution was wrong as you cannot rebel against a monarch not your own. So the English deposing their monarch could not be applied to Scotland. That was the urgency for a treaty of Union.

    However, the Treaty of Union agreed to preserve the independent Scottish legal system and this is based upon the fact Scottish people are sovereign, not the monarchy. After the Treaty was signed the English parliament met and was ended officially but in Scotland the parliamentarians were running for their lives so did not formally meet to dissolve the parliament which was thus, “prorogued”.

    Only to be reconvened by Winnie Ewing as Holyrood. That means if the entire Scottish parliamentarians decide to withdraw from Westminster and return to Scotland they do so legally. Especially as the Westminster has now ignored the bipartite United Kingdom and divided up the UK on country lines with Westminster as the de facto Parliament of the Country of England and the United Kingdom.

    If you like, Scotland could also just declare UDI for under Scots law the people of Scotland, not either Her Majesty nor her representatives in the Constitutional Monarchy’s parliament have Scottish sovereignty as the people of Scotland are sovereign and 59 Scottish Westminster MPs are a very definite mandate from the sovereign Scots people.

    Anyway 59 Scots MPs and a full parliament of SNP MSPs plus Scots MEPs would be a nightmare for a Westminster Parliament.

  438. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thanks Bald Eagle. I’ve put it up on Facebook I’d put it up on Twitter as well but think I’d be there all night cutting it down to 140 character lengths. 😛

  439. Paula Rose says:

    L-A we still have the FW squadron xx

  440. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    pitchfork says:

    err no at any time but I did fill in a form to send my e-wife on a CD to Mars.

    I did receive spam shite from Obama for some time, which gave me great mirth

    I guess someone is cross filing two different databases and I am sooked from one t’ither?

  441. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I have a great idea for REv Stu to take a break and us obsessives to go on playing.

    He gives us a starter for ten (10) and we fill in the rest, daily.

    I always thought the best bits here were from the punters.

    Just jokin!

  442. CameronB Brodie says:

    Any idea how effect sponsoring the petition might be?

    Signed, btw. 😉

  443. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    pitchfork says:

    No I am not and did not.


  444. Paula Rose says:

    Bugger the Panda – only you honey, words of wisdom xxx

  445. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    N. A. says:


    It will and we will.

  446. Auld Rock says:

    Hi Stu,

    Take a much needed holiday but you must come back for this site is now even more important than before the 18th or shall we rename ‘Black Thursday’. We all need a site that relentlessly pursues the truth and as I said even more so now.

    On a different topic, can someone email at just how many Food Banks were operating in Scotland on Black Thursday please?

    Auld Rock

  447. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Paula R

    Wot you WEARING 6″ CFME or strap on Romam sandals.

    OOOhhh RRR

  448. Lesley-Anne says:

    Paula Rose says:

    L-A we still have the FW squadron xx

    Oh ABSOLUTELY Paula. The FW squadron is alive and well. The aircraft are coming out of routine servicing as we speak. 😛

  449. Paula Rose says:

    Tonight dear a very strappy pair – anything you would prefer xx

  450. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Round yer ears sunshine, in my Porsche

  451. Paula Rose says:

    Oops message about straps for BtP.

  452. Paula Rose says:

    L-A these boys eh? Shall we give them a slap?

  453. robert graham says:

    to “gavin” & “tony” why don’t you just f/off and enjoy your imagined win do you really think there is going to be a prize as a reward both bloody idiots just like the nearly dead who stole the future of so many kids because they were too stupid to see the lies

  454. Paula Rose says:

    Experts on stuff – O/T interesting, we are generally keeping the heads up here, as we will.

  455. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Chers Paula Rose

    19 September, 2014 at 10:13 pm

    Oops message about straps for BtP.

    Off to the bear pit very soon.

  456. bald eagle says:

    well iv’e managed to control the tears and now the laughter is starting to kill me

    after an incident today the other half is (to put it mildly going off her fucking head)trying to switch the t.v on with the remote control how do you tell someone that’s ready to explode the remote she is using is for the stereo

    i’m bloody hungry and i;m terrified to move its like waiting for a bomb to go off and i feel trapped i think i will go on a diet forced on me by something i did not do and people ask why i don’t go shopping with her next time she asks she can go chase herself

  457. Lesley-Anne says:

    Are we talking one holding and one slapping or both slapping Paula? 😛

  458. Lesley-Anne says:

    There is only ONE thing in response to that post BE.

    OOPS! 😛

  459. Paula Rose says:

    Lesley-Anne honey – I hope we have rallied the troops today, these boys need a bit of spine, lots of our best were claiming they would emigrate! Shame on them, do they not understand that we will win?

  460. STEU says:

    Reading the comments, some people here are clearly deluded if they believe Westminster will ever again allow a biding and *constitutionally-sanctioned* referendum. It’s well and truly over.

    Worse still, Westminster can rightly claim they’ll be operating under a sovereign mandate given to them by the Scottish people.

    Katsoft commented above: “when free prescriptions, university fees and personal care are removed and the NHS Scotland goes the way Wales is already on route to”.

    This illustrates perfectly a point some people have made and one I want to echo. The SNP should disband or, to the very least, resign wholesale.

    By doing so, the SNP would put Lamont, Davidson & Co. in charge and tasked to deliver the ‘better together’ agenda unhindered. This way the SNP will not fall into the trap being readied for them: being blamed for the cuts and its aftermath – the MSM would see to that, allowing Labour et all to present themselves as the saviours of Scotland against the evil and vindictive Nats.

  461. Lesley-Anne says:

    Well I’ve been trying to do that over the last few days Paula but have to admit even today it got too much for me. I think I’m over the worst of it now but the tears still roll freely from time to time, particularly when posting a comment on Alex Salmond’s Twitter line or on Facebook.

    I don’t understand it at all. I can be so strong for so many but then out of nowhere I fall apart at the slightest thing. I know it will take us all time to build ourselves back up but I hope we can all stay together and be there for each other as each one falls down we can pick them back up and support them till they are ready to walk unaided again. Right now I think it is Stu who needs us the most.

  462. Cuilean says:

    Numb, I buried my stillborn country in my heart today. Then Alex chucked it. Please don’t chuck it too, Stuart. You make the unbearable, bearable. And in the next round, no more us playing by Queensbury Rules, (no more the ‘you gotta accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative’ routine), we go for the jugular, killer instinct time because they show no mercy to Mr Nice Guys.

  463. ronnie anderson says:

    FW one to FW two & Paula were still in charge of the aircraft & flight crew,stand down take stock, regroup.

  464. Paula Rose says:


  465. Paula Rose says:

    Calling all wingers we are the country that is – xx

  466. Lesley-Anne says:

    FW TWO to FW ONE roger that transmission! 😉

  467. Bit of a stushie says:

    I share the acute disappointment of others over the result. It is heart-breaking and gut-wrenching. But I take comfort from the news that under 65s voted 54% for YES. As others have said, this is a good platform on which to build and opportunities may come on the back of the UK general election and EU referendum.

    Please let us not vilify those who voted NO. These were mainly the elderly and the frightened. It simply demonstrates the success of the NO campaign for which I have nothing but contempt, built as it was on fear and deceit.

    Please, Rev Stu, carry on with Wings or something like it, after your well-earned break. There are many who will support good journalism for Scotland. Now more than ever we, the 45%, need your help in holding to account the Westminster politicians. Independence may be off the table for the time being, but there is still the chance to improve Scotland by fighting for something approximating devo-max or federalism as a next step. Let’s not give up completely just yet.

  468. Paula Rose says:

    Still a couple missing in action – come in Thepnr and Tartan Tory, gather your squadrons and return to base.

    This is not a game- we all know that, neither have we lost.

  469. Paula Rose says:

    Bit of a stushie – honey, this is Wings – we never say die, this is cybernat central.

  470. Derek Henry says:

    If I was one of leader’s of the grass root YES movement in Scotland no matter what political spectrum I was from. Here’s what I would do

    I would get all the heads of each part of the grass movement together and invite the NO leaders to a convention in the SSEC.
    I would say we know the majority of you voted NO because of the offer of more powers. Let us Unite and organise a new combined movement on the ground to make sure the powers are delivered. Not just any powers but the powers we want.

    This would help the healing process and let us create a team Scotland consisting of YES and NO voters. Making sure we get the powers we want.

    Again, this would shake the establishment and bring Scotland together. The foundations are already there we just need to build further on what has been built up over the last 2 years.

    Stuart you could lead the call for this and newsnet Scotland

  471. TJenny says:

    Ronnie Anderson – Hooray, you’re back and in fine fettle too. 🙂

  472. Cuilean says:

    I have it on very good authority, by those who spectated in person the Isle of Arran vote boxes counted, that ‘Scotland in miniature’ had voted ‘YES’. Probably in no small part down to the local imperial master, The Right Horrendous Charlie FFFForde, who famously blocked the island’s (i.e. HIS island’s) Calmac ferry vehicles disembarking, demanding the skipper be summoned into his presence to account for why the skipper had ignored the Laird’s orders to his ‘smallfolk’; making an even more than usual show of himself in the process, because his upteenth wife had missed the ferry and his nibs took exception to a common skipper having the audacity to refuse to cancel the public schedule to return back to port to accommodate his tardy better half. People of Arran! Take a bow! The folks there are very well educated and could, as Kevin Bridges suggests, easily re-sit their Higher ‘Modern Studies’ as they’ve had: Patrick Harvie, the Dateline Scotland duo, Lesley Riddoch, Dr Whitford, JOhn Swinney and possibly more (apologies) I can’t mind, all over for the craic.

  473. Paula Rose says:

    T Jenny honey xx was concerned about you also – but the big man is here, the lovely Ronnie, all will be well. Just got to get contact with Thepnr.

  474. I’m not sure if I’ve actually posted here before, but I had to come here to say that this has been the most dispiriting political event of my 52 years.

    I’m not Scottish (by any definition, although I had an Auntie Bertha in Thornliebank) and have never even been to Scotland, but as someone who has supported my own country’s right to self-detemination for over 35 years, I saw your campaign as perhaps the last chance for humane politics on this wretched island. I have felt every bump in the road with you, felt every small thrill of hope and triumph, and have come to see not just Wingers but WGD, Michael Greenwell and Munguin as something akin to on-line family, and I’m not sure what I can do now.

    (Hell! I’m welling up again).

    Stay strong for each other, and – if you need a new mission – why not spend the 18 months between now and when you should have been free doing all you can to undermine the Labour Party and its propaganda wing, the BBC in Scotland?

    It’s been a privilege to have been with you, however remotely.

    Nigel Stapley

  475. Lesley-Anne says:

    Please let us not vilify those who voted NO. These were mainly the elderly and the frightened. It simply demonstrates the success of the NO campaign for which I have nothing but contempt, built as it was on fear and deceit.

    I understand your thought here Bit of a stushie, but it is extremely difficult to do so when you see unionist cowards stealing a Saltire from a wee girl, shouting abuse at another twenty something woman, hear about a YES supporter being stabbed and see a photo of another YES supporter being kicked on the ground by TWO Cowards of unionism!

  476. Tony says:

    Lesley-Anne says:
    I understand your thought here Bit of a stushie, but it is extremely difficult to do so when you see unionist cowards stealing a Saltire from a wee girl, shouting abuse at another twenty something woman, hear about a YES supporter being stabbed and see a photo of another YES supporter being kicked on the ground by TWO Cowards of unionism!


    Didn’t your lot threaten a “day of reckoning” for unionists in the event of a No? and I seem to recall graffiti calling for ethnic cleansing of the English.

    It’s little wonder after the abuse and intimidation by the separatist ("Tractor" - Ed)s, that some people are seeking a bit of revenge.

    Get it through your heads. The 55 have spoken, we will remain part of the UK and there’s nothing you can do about it.

    I will be supporting the Conservative party who came in after 13 years of disastrous Labour rule which saw the country bankrupt in true leftist tradition.

    We have now turned the corner and are going to eclipse Germany’s economy by 2020.

    Now you cry babies can either get on board or sod off to Dublin, where half of your Yes nats loyalties lie.

  477. fittie says:

    far right thugs waving the flag of far right thugs –the unionjack

  478. Lesley-Anne says:

    Didn’t I see you in George Square tonight Tony?

  479. Lesley-Anne says:

    Didn’t I see you in George Square tonight Tony?

  480. CRAIGthePICT says:

    @Tony You are part of a little insignificant minority of bigots that is thankfully dying off as time goes on and natural selection does it’s work.

    You don’t have the guts to be an individual so gravitate towards what your fellow inbreds believe in.

    You are destined for an unfulfilling and pointless life characterised with hate and poverty.

    I do not expect these words to resonate as true with you, even as you carry them out.

  481. SqueuedPerspextive says:

    #VoteYes #LordSmith #Commissioner #TrearyOfUnion #WhatDoesTheLawSay #Article15 #Article258

  482. Paula Rose says:

    Oh it’s wee Tony again – hello dear, that is some silly rant – shall we take it apart line by line or allow you to bow out gracefully? Enjoy your eclipse sweetie.

  483. SqueuedPerspextive says:

    #VoteYes #LordSmith #Commissioner #TreatyOfUnion #WhatDoesTheLawSay #Article15 #Article258

  484. Paula Rose says:

    OK – he really is that daft, free lunch eat Tony.

  485. SqueuedPerspextive says:

    #VoteYes #LordSmith #Commissioner #TreatyOfUnion #WhatDoesTheLawSay #Article15ToU #Article258TotFotEU

  486. SqueuedPerspextive says:


  487. SqueuedPerspextive says:


  488. SqueuedPerspextive says:

    Rev if you dont realise the most burnin excellence of what you just missed drop me a line

  489. SqueuedPerspextive says:

    Do you realise how Yes played such a positive campaign and stuck to the rules that when No broke them there were consequences. The Edinburgh agreement was legally binding so breaches have consequences one of which is article 15 which basically says we can send in the auditors to check its fair. As article 258 of the EU treaty says we can (and we are bound by article 3 & 4) to abide by European Law

  490. Scott says:

    I hope you keep going with Wings Over Scotland. It’s a wonderful site.

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