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Wings Over Scotland


The Calling Of The Bluff

Posted on February 11, 2023 by

It might not look like much. But this, readers, is the moment of truth.

Because what you see above is the reckoning Nicola Sturgeon can’t run from.

The amendment laid by SNP MP Angus MacNeil for the party’s “Special Democracy Conference” in March couldn’t be any simpler. It calls for Sturgeon’s promise of an (effective) independence referendum this October to be delivered, and sets out in plain terms the means by which it could be achieved.

It is completely and unquestionably within the powers of the Scottish Government to bring about a Holyrood election on 19 October this year – the date Sturgeon chose and announced, with no ifs and no buts, less than eight months ago.

The only thing that can stop it isn’t the Holyrood opposition. It isn’t the UK government. It isn’t the Supreme Court. Only the SNP conference now stands in the way of a de facto independence referendum in eight months’ time.

If MacNeil’s amendment is accepted and voted for, the die is cast and the job is done. The Scottish Parliament will vote to alter the Scotland Act to allow for a new plebiscitary election in October, the SNP (and others) will campaign on a one-line manifesto, and if they secure half of the vote between them the people of Scotland will have democratically chosen independence and will solemnly present that choice to the international community under the principles of the UN Charter, Chapter 1, Article 1.

That in itself offers no guarantees. But it’s the route by which countless other nations have secured recognition for their independence, and more to the point it’s the ONLY non-violent route still open to Scotland in the light of the UK government’s continued refusal to grant a Section 30 order.

The only other options on the table for the conference are to repeat the strategy that we already know doesn’t work – waving “mandates” at Westminster and begging for their leave to leave.

But this plan needs nobody’s permission. The legalities of the MacNeil amendment are beyond dispute and have been confirmed by constitutional lawyers. All that’s required to carry out the plan is the collective will of the SNP, guided by its leadership.

If that will is not forthcoming, we’ll know everything we need to know about whether Nicola Sturgeon’s SNP is still a party of Scottish independence or not, or whether it’s simply the new Scottish Labour, a meek devolutionary entity interested only in staying in power and feathering its own nest with British money.

It really is as straightforward as that.

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John+Green

At last Mr MacNeil,thank you

WingsOverFrance

Excellent news and not before time. Sadly, I fear the worst. I hope I’m wrong.

sarah

Hurrah! Popcorn ready.

Saorsacat

Sadly, if they do agree to this, it’s my belief that the SNP will make NO effort to run a full on, informative campaign in regards to the benefit of Indy. I hope I’m wrong.

David

No way will they allow this to pass.
Sturgeon will be trotting out the ‘now is not the time’ horseshit we’ve heard from the Tories.

Eileen Carson

Nikla will resign rather than face defeat, because she’s a coward she will blame WM.

Sean

And if this actually comes to pass and we hold a defacto referendum in 8 months time what will be the result??

Her obsession with identity politics that has torn the Yes movement apart whilst alienating nearly half of the electorate will surely be doomed to failure.

Its almost like the cunning plan is now finally falling into place as if by design.

Any referendum held whilst she and her degenerates hold power is doomed to failure and with it hopes for Independence for 30yrs.

Soda

Cue Pishfart on why it cant be done….

Suz

“IF MacNeil’s amendment is accepted…”

Spoiler: it won’t be.

Big Jock

If its refused, then it will split the MPs and MSPs in two. It will be the destruction of the SNP. Sturgeon will have to resign.

If it’s granted I expect she will resign. As she doesn’t have the bottle to take on Westminster.

Either way this is D Day. Tick tock Sturgeon.

Lorna Campbell

Hailsacat: “… Sadly, if they do agree to this, it’s my belief that the SNP will make NO effort to run a full on, informative campaign in regards to the benefit of Indy. I hope I’m wrong… ”

That would my take on it, too. If forced into a position where they have no choice but to run a campaign, I think they will attempt to sabotage it. Sturgeon’s heart, I believe, has never been in independence – unless it were to be handed to her o a plate with no effort at all, no facing up to Westminster. Hope I’m wrong. She might go for the distraction of a referendum to take the heat off the GRRB debacle.

Ebok

Apologies Rev for going O/T so soon, just to say there is a ‘lengthy’ interview with Alex Salmond on Talk Radio coming up (is that Talk TV too, I don’t watch telly?)

Geri

In this current toxic atmosphere do you think we’d win it?

SandyW

Have to confess, I had MacNeill down as being there just to make it look like there were still dissenting voices in a pro-Indy SNP. With that motion, I think I have to apologise unreservedly to him on that front.

Geri

Sean.

Yes. It’s all a bit too little, too late.

The time to have pulled that rabbit from the hat was the woeful response to the SC decision & before the perverts charter had passed Holyrood.

Brunswicker

Yeah, like I really want this incompetent bunch of freaks negotiating the treaty of secession.

GlesgaJim

I couldn’t vote to hand the country, and the future of my children, over to these monsters. From 2014 to this. I utterly loathe them.

gregor

Pete Wishart (10/02/2023): Twit:

“It’s hard to think of anything more contemptible…

But there are some people below contempt…”:

link to archive.ph

Geri

Ebok, you can watch Talk TV live on YouTube.

Stephen

Sadly the mindless Nicola cult will follow her lead and will not vote for this!

Geri

AS is on now..

link to youtube.com

Wee Chid

We won’t win in 8 month’s time – especially if it run on a party basis. Too many will think that it will be taken as an endorsement of existing SNP policies and don’t trust them not to continue with the genderwoo nonsense in an indy Scotland.

red sunset

SNP leadership via their NEC appointees won’t let this go to conference

Den

I will bare my arse in Boots windae on the local high street if this passes conf,

Wilson McBride

I would rather hold off until Sturgeon is out of the picture (and that includes Peter Murrel), and this Gender Bill is sorted in favour of woman and their safe spaces before going down this route.

The good thing about this McNeil ammmendment is that we know it can be done at a time of our choosing.

Sturgeon is toxic and would need to be as far away from any Indy campaign as possible.

I personally detest Sturgeon with a passion, and hopefully for the sake of Scottish Independence she is serving out her final days as First Minister.

After which a true campaign for Scottish independence could begin.

George

Mr MacNeil might believe in independence but he knows, as we all know, that among the career SNP politicians in Westminster and Edinburgh that he is in a minority.
Going to be amusing seeing how those who claim to be in favour of independence try their best to ensure Mr MacNeil’s motion is ruled out of order and thus not allow ed to be debated. Or in the unlikely event it is debated, argue against it.
The status quo suits too many SNP politicians and their tax payer funded pressure groups for them to risk independence.

Jim Thomson

Of course that all depends on the motion actually getting to conference. The woka nostra in the NEC and/or the Conference Committee will do all they can to block it I’d guess.

Anonymoose

Although I’ve not been a member of the SNP for a number of years, I do actually believe there are some members and importantly elected representatives (MP/MSPs) within the party who do want independence.

With that said the unfortunate balance of power within the party and the prior stripping of power from the members from the party’s standing orders by Angus Robertson, I fear that even if the members do want to vote for Angus B MacNiel’s amendment then the SNP leadership will either block it from appearing at conference in the first place (which they have precedence for with other members motions) or simply ignore the outcome of any vote on it like many other motions put to SNP conferences since Angus Robertsons coup d’état on the standing orders.

For those in the party who do not want independence (and there are many given the influx of ex-Labour candidates and architects of Project-Fear in the prior two decades following the collapse of Slab) I think you described each of them perfectly as:

a meek devolutionary entity interested only in staying in power and feathering its own nest with British money.

So onto the possible outcomes of Angus B MacNiel’s amendment, should it actually make it to a vote, will be that either:

1) It passes, the SNP uphold it and they amend the Scottish Parliament standing orders as per the motion, enabling a legal vote to occur.

2) It passes, the SNP ignore the outcome of the vote and take the political hit further destroying what is left of the party & its reputation (which might actually be their intentions, given their deliberately disastrous recent history).

3) It does not pass, the SNP leadership carry on as they were, the party will have just stamped in cast iron that they are no longer the party of independence as they will have deliberately blocked a legitimate legal route to enabling a vote.

If out of all the options above any of them but 1) materialises then the SNP as a party should by rights collapse as they have truly abandoned their ultimate founding principle, Scottish Independence, and if the remaining SNP party membership fail to comprehend the importance of this motion and remain members if this amendment fails or is blocked then they are not really supporters of independence either.

Garrion

It’s a triumph and an indication of the disarray in the cabal and their extended support that this has even made it to daylight.

I find it interesting that there is significant sentiment that “now is not the time” due to the fuckery of the SNP. It may be true that there’s a lot of work to be done, but as Salmond and anyone who has actually moved the needle (door to door campaigners, runners of certain pro independence websites who recently came out of retirement, SNP politicians who retained a spine and a moral centre, etc. ) on independence will attest, doesn’t have to be.

Scottish independence will be resisted, plotted against, obviously and less obviously disrupted, fought tooth and nail against. Because it’s worth having and, to the power that benefits from the current state of affairs, it’s worth preventing.

It is and always was up to the people of Scotland to deliver independence, not the SNP. At least this places the issue on the actual table, not the front page of the National.

You’ll know if this is an actual danger to the status quo if you start seeing stuff like Bella Caledonia’s sudden and whole hearted support of the mysteriously appearing and equally mysterious disappearance of RISE.

The question is not whether it’s a good time (it never will be) it’s what can be done with this?

Mac

If Sturgeon was an ‘asset’ and she was nearing the end of her political shelf life what would you do if you were her ‘handlers’.

You would make sure you squeezed every last bit out of her before she leaves office. Make sure she leaves the independence movement a smoking ruin if you can.

And maybe this is what we are seeing.

Sturgeon very methodically and systematically has made the SNPG into a laughing stock and has also really enraged a lot of people at this stage.

And now we are going to have a de facto referendum essentially based on the popularity of the SNP… that is starting look like a perfect storm, a perfect shit storm.

If the SNP got slaughtered for all the domestic policy nonsense how do you separate that butchering from the de facto referendum aspect.

Does it not also risk just giving Sturgeon another full term to still do fuck all.

Ebok

‘It might not look like much. But this, readers, is the moment of truth’

Sturgeon is no longer the dominant force she once was, so it is inevitable that this amendment will be considered, even if it causes ructions within the party.
Cracks ARE appearing in both HR and WM as shown by the rebellion over GRR, and numerous SNP MPs supporting Neale Hanvey’s ‘Scotland Self-Determination Bill’ in WM on Feb 1.
Angus MacNeil was a signatory to that bill.

I referred to it in the comment below, an update from SALVO, but it may have been swamped by rapidly moving posts and comments yesterday.
10 February, 2023 at 2:06 pm

David Beveridge

There’s as much chance of this passing as there is of me being beamed up by aliens and put into an intergalactic breeding program with Beyonce?.

Geri

At the end of the day, if it passes, it’s a Holyrood election.

Get the grifters removed & replace them with indy.

Antoine Roquentin

The chances of MacNeil’s motion being accepted and carried, without prior groundwork amongst his parliamentary colleagues are, not to understate the point, extremely slim.

Ebok

Geri says:
11 February, 2023 at 11:59 am

‘Ebok, you can watch Talk TV live on YouTube’

Thanks Geri, but not quite, only when it’s a recording, and an hour after going out live…you’ll have guessed that I don’t pay the TV tax…

gregor

Guardian (11/02/2023): Nicola Sturgeon faces fortnight of criticism over trans prisons policy:

“Few can be anticipating Holyrood’s recess next week as keenly as Nicola Sturgeon.

She has endured a fortnight of relentless and increasingly personal criticism, punishing headlines and lacklustre polling.

Meanwhile, her critics in the media have declared her career is “over”…”:

link to archive.ph

Mac

Sturgeon I think would be loathed to give ALBA a fair crack of the whip but she might also calculate that this could actually save her.

By agreeing to it she effectively ‘wraps herself in the flag’, the independence flag.

If the vote falls short it will likely result in her still getting a healthy majority (instead of an electoral beating) and another term…

I think this is a good idea but bad timing. It feels like we are right on the cusp of getting rid of Sturgeon and this now will muddy those waters big time.

Ian McCubbin

I so hope Angus MacNeil, has backers a d supporters and this gets passed. I await with hope.

Kenny

Will there be time for Holyrood to rig the plebiscite vote results?
Who would oversee the election? Electoral commission? Seen who the current commissioners are? Don’t make me laugh.
Press would paint it as ‘Sturgeon blew SNP vote because unpopular GRR’

I don’t trust any of them.

Still a great post, though. I wonder how the compromised, incompetent will cope with this one? Oh, ‘I resign’..

Geri

Angus seems to be in unison with Salmond who was interviewed last week (from the link I provided above)

Gawd, as my Mam would say ‘theres more than one way to skin a cat than through its [redacted] arse’

It’s pay back time. Sturgeon & her minions dragged into the spotlight. They’ll be raging. 😀

Holyrood a superindy majority & indy back in the parly & on the agenda.

James Che

If the crazy trans driven snp get this to succeed, would that place the snp in the driving seat for negotiating and dividing on out behalf.

Thank god that if they win enough to take this to the UN, the argument put before the UN could be put forward is much simpler.
That Scots have been mislead for 300 years into to believing that the 1707 Scottish parliament was in the treaty of the union,
And that was never the case,
The Scottish parliament was extinguished in 1707,
The Westminster parliament have owned up to this on their own parliament site in 2023.

As negotiating terms this is a absolute blinder.

We must push for this to be included in negotiations, for a reset of Scottish land and sea losses, for the return and reparations to come back to Scotland,

It is also a second [ non- violent ] method to gain Scotlands independence, if the snp and tory/Westminster government fail us.

Geri

Ebook

You don’t need a license to watch YouTube channels.

I don’t pay the BBC either but they’ve no clout on other streaming services.

Geri

Ebok, sorry.

Damn autocorrect.

Skip_NC

Mac, it only muddies the esters if the (ahem) emergency conference passes it.

Natalie Delon

Even if Sturgeon is forced to accept this ammendment, she is a useless independence campaigner. One of the reasons being tha she hasn’t campaigned for independence in almost a decade.
Added to that, with a GRR court case in the offing she would be dogged by trans questions,and we’ve seen her floundering so badly with these already.
What about Alba? Is she really going to put her personal issues to one side and put her country first for once and work with Alex Salmond? I think we all know the answer to that.
It would be better for Scotland if she was forced out now before she can make a mess of this as well as everything else. Then we would have a real chance.

William Russell

It’s great Angus has submitted this but it will only serve to highlight the SNP are a Great British unionist institution. The Brits have played a blinder and deserve credit for what they have achieved politically in Scotland.
Scotland is more secure now as part of the Brit state than it has ever been and that will remain the case while the bulk of ‘so-called’ indy MPs take their seats in Westminster.
It is simple. If Scots genuinely do not want the Brit state governing Scotland, STOP helping the fuckers to do so.

gregor

DailyExpress (11/02/2023): Muslim Council withdraws support for Nicola Sturgeon’s ‘disastrous’ SNP/Green government:

“The Muslim Council in the UK has withdrawn support for the Scottish government, claiming Nicola Sturgeon is taking the country “down the wrong path”.

Mr Wasif Ahmad who is the Chair of The Muslim Council of UK, the leading Muslim community has said they will be joining the Scottish Indian Council in abandoning the SNP/Greens.

In a scathing statement, the group said morale is “at an all-time low”, claiming their “civil liberties” have been taken away by social policies with the latest gender reform Bill seemingly being the final straw…”:

link to archive.ph

McDuff

The sturgeon is a bitter and twisted individual and none too bright so I can’t see her going down this route.
And anywsy she is not interested in independece given her track record.
But in reality would you really want this woman and her sheep negotiating separation with the sharks of Westminster. She is incapable of dealing with the logistics and intricacies of leaving the UK and rotten enough to sell us out.
She needs to go but who is a capable and honest replacement.

James Che

Ebok.

I read your comments the other day, and I tend to agree with you, I also watched Neale Hanvey’s put forward, ‘Scotlands Right to Self Determination’ in Westminster,

Not many of the Westminster crowd were even there, or payed any dues to the Scottish items going through westminster as usual, but their appalling behaviour and lack of interest has occasionally benefited us.

Do you ever get the impression that some in Westminster no longer give hoot about the continuing the administration of Westminster, that it is Winding itself down, and the finances are already being funnelled out of Britain through the proxy war into foreign banks.

The “leveling up Britain”is a bit curious as well, due to it passing devolution to all the counties in Britain.

Somehow I get the feeling that Britain Westminster has shifted a notch to take its place, its admin elsewhere.

Something is not quite sitting as it should be.

Scot Finlayson

@Geri,

Watching YouTube
You don’t need a TV Licence to watch videos or clips on demand on YouTube.

But you DO need a TV Licence if you watch TV live on YouTube. An example of this would be watching Sky News live.

But it isn’t just live news or sport which needs a licence – it’s any programme which is part of a TV channel, broadcast or transmitted for everyone to watch at the same time.

SusanAHF

Good idea, bad timing.
1) I wouldn’t want to live in the current scotgov dystopia
2) the current bunch of inadequates couldn’t be trusted to negotiate their way out of a wet paper bag, nevermind against a devious and untrustworthy britgov

Kenneth+G+Coutts

An SNP conference?
Shurely not.
I thought open democracy was banned from the SNP.
This I have to see.
I’ll get the popcorn in.
Conference, ha!
????????????????

John C

I suspect it won’t pass now the NEC has been on the whole, hollowed out and Sturgeon loyalists dominate. Also the fact is the SNP aren’t about independence anymore, they’re a party that wants to retain power and have found a way to do that without being held accountable by either the electorate, the (hopeless) opposition parties and their own members.

Although the SNP have done some good, they’ve dragged their heels over so much from easing poverty, to disabled and women’s rights to just the basics of lawmaking. Also the hard authoritarian streak now fully exposed in the appalling new hate crime laws make Scotland less of a beacon of light within the UK and just a retread of some of the worst parts of the Labour years under Blair and Brown.

I’m also tired of the loyalists and the frankly, lunatic wing of independence supporters who cling onto the SNP as if they were a Catholic priest hanging onto his Rosary Beads. There is no ‘secret plan’. Sturgeon hasn’t been going around the world to ‘raise support for indy’. There isn’t even a strong opposition to the Tories, just lip service and a large number of crushingly disappointing SNP elected officials, with Mhari Black having to be by far the worst example as someone who was a breath of fresh air to someone who just is there clearly to maintain her lifestyle having now been assimilated into neoliberalism.

If by some miracle though this does pass next month I guarantee it’ll never happen. There is no way SNP MSP’s want to face the electorate at this moment in time.

James Che

Britain is falling, collapsing before our eyes, all governments in Britain have passed legislation the is against its citizens.causing lockdowns, business failure, financial poverty, climate change crises, energy poverty, and although no one realises it yet, a food chain supply crises. Its all being done away with.

And yet the the politicians blind fold us to be occupied with the paid and funded for idealogical woke cancel culture. While not sorting any problems, it could be viewed as the politicians contributing to that Chaos and poverty deliberately.

joolz

I fear this amendment because if it passes it will kill indy for my lifetime.

We won’t win indy under Sturgeon. She doesn’t want it. She won’t fight for it. She hasn’t made much headway in getting support for it despite Brexit, despite the internal market bill and despite the financial crisis. She is unpopular and people will vote against her rather than vote for indy. Sturgeon’s Scotland is a becoming totalitarian state. That’s not my idea of an indy Scotland.

Her recent performance shows exactly what her priorities are and how little she cares for the people of Scotland.

I’m desperate for indy, but I’ve been a woman longer than I’ve been an indy supporter. You can’t ask me to choose between my rights and independence. Many other women feel the same. Many SNP men are arguing that women should wheesht so we can get indy and then they will fix our rights ‘later’. Yeah. Right. That’s easy for them to say. There will be a lot to do after indy. I don’t see women being prioritised at all as those same men will say we need to get Scotland up and running first and will say we’ll fix women’s rights ‘later’. I don’t trust anyone who isn’t already fighting to restore women’s rights now, so why should I think I can trust them later?

We need to get rid of Sturgeon, restore women’s rights, regroup and make a proper case for indy.

I voted YES in 2014. I can’t say how I would vote in 2023. I hope I don’t have to make that decision.

Alex

Why do people believe Nicola is under control of the security services? That is so insane it’s hard to fathom. They would need to control every member of the top of the party (ministers too). They don’t need to. They can self destruct on their own because as Nicola/SNP have proven she is not a leader and every measurement she wants to be held to account on (LOL) is worse than when she started. But it’s not her fault.

The highlands needs to join the outcry and push their incompetence for failing to follow through on another promise.

But the reason this won’t get anywhere, is simple. The SNP do not have the finances available to conduct an election campaign. They are essentially empty. They have had 0 donations and trying to drum that up after using the £600k for this exact purpose isn’t going to inspire confidence for others to contribute again. Because it’ll be burned on ensuring they are taking care of and not on the actual independence campaign.

The sooner Nicola is held to account for her piss poor performance as FM, the sooner we might get somewhere. But the cult is strong and the koolaid being drunk. Nicola will forget all the important details as she is suddenly suffering from amnesia.

Anne Johnston

She’ll double down and do nothing.,
It’s all she knows.

William Habib Steele

I wonder if this is wise while the population is reeling under the Gender Self-Recognition Amendment, and lacks confidence in a Government and Parliament which does not know the difference between men and women. I people don’t trust politicians to protect women and children, will they trust them enough to vote for independence?

gregor

Al Firdaus Ensemble (2015): Celtic Salawat:

“Al Firdaus Ensemble new video clip “Celtic Salawat ” in praise of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). From the album “Safa””:

(Safa meaning: Clarity. Purity. Serenity):

link to tinyurl.com

Papko

I am amazed that this site is still running and I congratulate you all and the REV for keeping going.

One thing I notice is the absence of the ” Yoon Trolls”.
Is it too implausible even for them to keep posting.

joolz

Scot Finlayson is correct. Geri is wrong. You need a TV licence for ANY live TV, regardless of the source. Even the live TV on Amazon or YouTube needs a licence.

In addition you also can’t watch non-live TV on BBC iPlayer without a licence. But you can watch non-live TV on other catchup services like My5.

Geri

I suspect in a new independent country there would be an immediate election on who navigates the withdrawal & there would be a transition period too.

Giving Scots plenty of time to eject a feckin eejit if they’re shite at negotiating our exit.

Some of you are already boxed in. Buy the hoose first!

Corrado Mella

This motion will not see the light of the day.

It won’t be discussed at this March conference of the Saint Nicola’s Party to save embarrassments to the Empress as it’s a lose-lose situation for The Infallible Leader.

Expect pomp and rhetoric with no substance, a “show of unity” after “wrongthink” has been “quelled”.

That’s what the BritNazi Establishment press will depict, with fake chagrin, while secretly wetting their nappies at the prospect of a few more years stealing Scottish natural resources unchallenged by a failed solicitor and her wet blanket.

If you still believe that today’s Self Neutering Party has the gumption, resolve and balls (!) to corner, pummel and slain the BritNazi Establishment Cerberus, you’re irremediably naive, and should be kept away from politics for our own good. Yes, our. DGAF about you.

Colin Dawson

I’m still of the opinion that the regional list, not the constituency vote, should be used as the plebiscite. If a single, “Scotland United for Independence” party could be formed for this purpose then, worst case, nearly half the unionist list MSPs would lose their seats. Best case, we win our independence. What’s the downside of this strategy?

gregor

BBC (11/02/2023): Top lawyer to investigate if Scottish ferries contract was ‘rigged’:

“Scotland’s ferry procurement body has appointed a senior lawyer to investigate if a £97m contract for two new ships was “rigged”.
CMAL asked its legal firm, Addelshaw Goddard. to appoint a KC to lead an independent probe into the process.

The two CalMac ferries are now £150m over budget and five years late.

A BBC Disclosure investigation obtained a leaked dossier which suggested that successful bidder Ferguson Marine Engineering had preferential treatment…”:

link to archive.ph

Witchy MacWoman

I do hope his Amendment goes through.
It means we will have an election consisting of Scottish parties only…maybe that’s the scary bit for the SNP who fear losing their comfortable well-paid jobs!
(Some of them actually remember why they they were voted in!)

Ebok

Geri says: Ebook – Ebok, sorry. Damn autocorrect.

Hahaha. You’re not the first to err. I was!
Ebok was a typo, missing out an ‘o’. It was meant to be my characterisation of WoS, an electronic book, viz: –

‘One distinct characteristic of an eBook: the text should not be editable’

Getting back on track (before Rev puts me on the naughty step), it is another month before SNP’s ‘urgent’ meeting to discuss LAST YEARS SC ruling, and it may well be that further negative publicity or revelations will see more defections.
IF this amendment is accepted and passed, with Sturgeon opposing, then her position is surely untenable.

Stuart MacKay

Well, that will throw the independence sea-eagle in among the devolution lambs.

Ruby

link to youtube.com

She’s reduced to incoherence’ Alex Salmond slams Nicola Sturgeon over transgender controversy

Had this been an interview with Nicola Sturgeon I would have lasted 5 minutes.

I am always happy to listen to Alex Salmond even when he talks for three hours.

wullie

WHO WILL BE ALLOWED TO VOTE
If it’s anything like the last time you can kiss your arse goodbye. Thirty thousand newly arrived from you know where to add to the hundreds of thousands of non native peoples who voted against us last time.
good lick wi that.

James Carroll

Let’s see them run from this one.

gregor

White-tailed Eagles (2016): Eating LAMB!

“These large creatures have no problem bringing a lamb into their nest.

We are not sure if the eagle actually killed it or if it died of natural causes…”:

link to tinyurl.com

James Che

Stuart MacKay.

I think that is showing up in the comments already.

Ruby

Sorry mistake in earlier I should have typed

Had this been an interview with Nicola Sturgeon I wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes.

It’s even worse I wouldn’t have even pressed play.

link to archive.is

Fake trans applicants ‘could trick universities

The only issue I have with Alex Salmond is that he seems to suggest there are fake & genuine trans people.

What I would like to know how you tell the difference.

I don’t believe you can.

Stuart

I’ve sent this to my MP and MSP telling them to support it or the SNP are finished. Everyone should do the same.

gregor

Ev (11/02/2023): Twitter:

“Supporters for @NicolaSturgeon, @theSNPand @scottishgreens dropping like flies.

“Time is chasing after all of us” seems it might be about to catch up with the above.”:

link to archive.ph

David Hannah

Great Stuff from Angus McNeil. The islander gaelic speaker. I’d back him. For Independence.

robertkknight

Don’t hold your breath peeps…

I anticipate some serious arm twisting behind the scenes and the amendment being withdrawn pending further “discussion” with party leadership.

These charlatans surrounding the Murrells won’t simply roll over… they’ll fight all the way to keep their gravy train parked on Westminster’s sidings.

James Che

wullie.

I can see some back tracking going on already, and those that are saying I am not voting for Sturgeon, so rightiously I am not voting for a chance at Self Determination for Scotland,
I think they had this thought ready to “Go” as a excuse.

Perhaps that was the plan, make Self Determination and independence unappealing.

Whatever the case it it is voiced here.

As Geri said, we can immediately pressurise and call for re-elections for the negotiators, once the first stage has passed.
Get your house first then you can put it in order.

Perhaps we have more ex- labour here than we realised, because for the love god, I cannot understand why you would use the SNP bad record as a excuse and back off , not to go forwards with a opportunity that would seldom come often for the Country of Scotland,

What kind of people would do that, soft yes’ or soft No’s.
Definately not the independence Scotland group that have spent there whole lives fighting to gain one small foothold at a time,

David Hannah

McNeil seems like a normal person. I listened to an interview of him saying he used to be a teacher on the islands. We need more normal Scottish patriots like McNeil in the SNP.

McNeil says Independence in 2023. He’s showing us the way. He’s gone right up my estimation. Right to the top.

Dorothy Devine

Some of the comments btl on the interview are grade A moronic.

gregor

Beggars Opera (1971): Waters of Change: Time Machine:

“…Away across to Mars
Like shooting stars, hm hm
We’ll stay and see…

Maybe we can find a place where our minds will run
Together like the water in a stream
Life would be sublime if only words would rhyme
To a melody within a fantasy…

We’ll take our love
And arts…”:

link to tinyurl.com

gregor

Elon Musk (09/02/2023): Twitter:

“One day, Starship will take us to Mars”:

link to tinyurl.com

akenaton

I don’t think Mrs Murrell will resign, rather she will drop the GRA and make a play for leadership of an Independent Scotland.

Control freaks never realise when “their tea is oot”

Personally I could never vote to turn our beloved country into the woke totalitarian state envisaged by the present incarnation of the SNP.
We must dissolve Holyrood, engage in a wide consultation process regarding the future of Scotland economically and socially, perhaps taking a couple of years, putting all the relevant issues on the table for discussion and examining all crimes social and economic perpetrated during the Sturgeon period of mismanagement.
I have sadly and finally realised that the vast majority of SNP supporters are not politically aware and would vote for anything that waved a blue and white flag.
Finally we need to find an inspirational leader in the mould of AS who’s time has sadly passed. There must be someone somewhere in this parcel of rogues? Any nominations?

highlander

I understand only 2 members from each branch can attend and vote? so the outcome is fixed already.

Republicofscotland

The stark reality is that Sturgeon will shoot this down in flames, the amendment will never be accepted, I pray that it is accepted, but Sturgeon and Murrell rule the SNP with an iron fist.

Sturgeon will come up with some sort of excuse as to why it cannot be accepted, and her clique will back her up. I hope I’m wrong.

ronald anderson@gmail.com

Colin Dawson 2.32

Throw that opinion in the bin its a non starter

Ruby

akenaton says:
11 February, 2023 at 3:49 pm

I don’t think Mrs Murrell will resign, rather she will drop the GRA and make a play for leadership of an Independent Scotland.

Grrrr! Akenaton!

She can’t drop the GRA.

GRA is reserved.

We could perhaps ditch the GRA & Sturgeon if we when we are independent.

I think her chance of becoming the leader of an Independent Scotland are zero unless we discover that 51% of the electorate are cross dressers & rapists.

Breeks

Ruby says:
11 February, 2023 at 3:11 pm

It’s even worse I wouldn’t have even pressed play.

link to archive.is

That online poll in the Times; Should the SNP drop the Gender Reform Bill, is currently sitting at 2,334 votes, with 98% saying yes.

Benny

Im no unionist but the thought of these brain dead snp politicians controlling an independent nation doesn’t fill me with patriotic hope. They need voted out asap

Ruby

I think Wings might need a CAPTCHA?

I think there is a bot spamming this forum.

I wouldn’t mind if I didn’t think the wee buggar was slowing things right down and causing me to wait 1/2 an hour for a post to upload.

Well OK it’s probably only 2 minutes but still I like things to happen NOW!

Ach! what the hell maybe one day, the Starship will take us to Mars or maybe Ura-nus.

NB Ura-nus without the hyphen is a banned word. Don’t get caught by the other bot the one with the power to moderate your posts.

akenaton

Sorry Ruby….Not very good with euphemisms I did mean the GRR.

President Xiden

Because with Sturgeon on the ropes and the faith in the SNP being massively damaged this is a good time to announce a referendum???

Ruby

link to wingsoverscotland.com

The bot has been busy on this old thread?
Why?

Wilson McBride

Listening to Murrayfield singing Flower of Scotland doesn’t half make you cringe.

You know in your heart that about 90% of that “Scottish” crowd would run a mile if they were to fight proud Edward’s army.

In fact, they’d probably jump ship and help proud Edward’s army beat the shit out of their fellow Scots.

Murrayfield just stinks of No voting Unionists and Royalists.

They even managed to squeeze in a couple of verses of “Loch Lomond”,,, Wishart will be so proud.

Ruby

Breeks says:
11 February, 2023 at 4:26 pm

Ruby says:
11 February, 2023 at 3:11 pm

It’s even worse I wouldn’t have even pressed play.

link to archive.is

That online poll in the Times; Should the SNP drop the Gender Reform Bill, is currently sitting at 2,334 votes, with 98% saying yes.

I can understand that.

What I would like to see is the Times running a poll asking if the UK Gov should repeal the GRA 2004.

Sure Sturgeon’s Grrrr! is bonkers but so is the GRA 2004 and if it weren’t for the GRA 2004 there would be no Grrr!

Grrr!

Liz

@ ruby
“The GRA extends across the UK. However, gender recognition is a devolved matter, meaning that legislation in this area is within the competence of the Scottish Parliament. The Scottish Government’s consultation, Review of the Gender Recognition Act 2004, ran from 9 November 2017 to 1 March 2018.”I

I don’t know if this means whether or not it can be dropped totally.
The wokes would never forgive her if she did as they’re her main support now.

Garavelli Princip

Benny says:
11 February, 2023 at 4:26 pm
Im no unionist but the thought of these brain dead snp politicians controlling an independent nation doesn’t fill me with patriotic hope. They need voted out asap.

Are you sure you are not a Unionist?

The whole point of being independent is that we can put in government who the hell we like. In the meantime we have to vote for a parties (or A party) that promises to get us independence.

That used to be the deal with the SNP. But that is not clear anymore; indeed there is abundant evidence to suggest that, for whatever reason – entrysim, subversion, idiocy, – take you pick, that the SNP is no longer interested in independence – rather in running the colony on behalf of their (and sadly our) colonial masters. And also that Ms Sturgeon, for what ever reason (we may speculate) is interested only in promoting exotic, and frankly dangerous, sexual preferences and jailing those who stand in her way.

For that reason, I and many others, have left the SNP, and many of us have joined Alba, which has one over-riding priority: Scottish Independence. Period.

tricia young

Joolz 2.04pm. This is exactly how I feel as a woman. Being told to wheest for indy is NOT an option for me. How dare anyone try to make me a 2nd class citizen in my own country. I am heartbroken over indy as I don’t think it will happen. But I cannot vote for it if it takes away my rights and the GRR puts me at huge risk. Any man trying to wheest women over that is a disgrace. Vote ALBA.

gregor

Elon Musk (11/02/2023): Twitter:

“Some of the smartest people I know actively believe the press … amazing”:

link to archive.ph

Ruby

Not only do we need a CAPTCHA I need an edit button.

Everytime I come on here I get well wound up and that causes me to make loads of typos, miss words & swear …..and then there’s the punctuation – but who cares about that?

OK BDDT does but hey I haven’t had time to read ‘Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Liz Truss. Have you?

James Che

Benny,

Try remember who holds sovereignty in Scotland,
If we get as far as anticipated with the “right to self determination” and meanwhile watch Westminster trash the whole of Britain, Scotland, N Ireland, Wales and surround islands ant the Colonies that had a name change to Commonwealth,
While NS follows a similar pattern in Scotland,

Your enthusiasm an courage may come back to save at least one part of Britain from the Cabel and its entourage.

The SNP and Westminster have agreed upon a political bat and ball game, they play cop, bad cop in turns,

I do not think that the Snp were taken over, they are actually one and the same. Under UK legislation.

Even if you live over the border/s, A independent country such as Scotland next door to you may be a saving grace one day if things get any worse down there.
For I do not anticipate a independent Country putting up with the Murrells, SNP or Green party for very long
At the moment they are protected as a party by UK legislation, as all political parties in the UK are.
Perhaps all politicians will be held to account more directly in the future as a independent Scotland.

Geri

Liz 5:05pm

That wasn’t conducted by Scots.
It was open to every Tom, dick & Harry with external votes pushing it.
The backlash caused Sturgeon to row it back & present a 2nd one. Same thing happened again! External votes.

& Shona Robinson refused to publish it this time until the bill was in its final stages so that would be easy to void, imo.

It wasn’t voted for by the majority who live here.

Ruby

Liz says:
11 February, 2023 at 5:05 pm

@ ruby
“The GRA extends across the UK. However, gender recognition is a devolved matter, meaning that legislation in this area is within the competence of the Scottish Parliament. The Scottish Government’s consultation, Review of the Gender Recognition Act 2004, ran from 9 November 2017 to 1 March 2018.”I

I don’t know if this means whether or not it can be dropped totally.
The wokes would never forgive her if she did as they’re her main support now.

Good point Liz!

She could perhaps reform it back to zero (or to use a more colloquial term she could reform the fuck out of it)

However there’s always the S35 which could stop her.

Ah! It’s fun to speculate!

Grrrr!

Robert Louis

Sadly, we all know what will happen. Either the amendment wil NOT even get selected for conference, or if it does, it will either a. Be watered down, so as to be meaningless or b. Get voted out by the usual suspects.

Sturgeon and her accolytes really do not care for independence. i mean, seriously, what a hassle for them, and then what, if they lose they might lose their lucrative careers. I mean seriously, some of those SNP MSPs have their kids in private school, and have new houses to pay for. It is really inconsiderate of us plebs to expect them to actually DO something, isn’t it?

Nah, I’m pretty sure the SNP will knock this one on the head, and a ‘new’ old policy of using the next Westminster election as a ‘deFacto’ ‘mandate’ to seek a section 30, and honestly, this time, Westminster really, really cannot refuse (they can), and this time, the SNP really, really, really mean it (they don’t). Honest (aye, right).

Geri

You’re not being told to wheesht.
You don’t need to vote for the SNP.

It’s a Holyrood election. Vote any pro indy party of your choice.

Alf Baird

gregor @ 2:33 pm

“A BBC Disclosure investigation obtained a leaked dossier which suggested that successful bidder Ferguson Marine Engineering had preferential treatment…”

I wouldn’t believe everything the BBC, or CMAL/SG say.

I hear that one of the bidders for the 2 further ships tendered last November in what was a very rushed procedure (won by the same Turkish yard who was given the earlier order for 2 boats) has complained to Ministers about what it termed a ‘restrictive’ process.

Much can go wrong with relatively new government agencies that appear to have have limited, if any, accountability for their behaviour.

SusanAHF

Same here joolz and tricia young

gregor

Nik (11/02/2023): Twitter:

“@NicolaSturgeon

Great to see HRH Princess Anne at the game today,

a hard working Lady who seeks no headlines, just doing her duties

Time for you to shhh and disappear”:

link to archive.ph

Geri

Ruby

Why you bothering yer arse with UK legislation? It’d be confined to the bin.

An independent Scotland would have its own Equality Act.

Genuine trans (who have 100% transitioned) will need included in that because they’re entitled to legal protections too)

Self declaration can piss off tho. It’s clear already, if polling is to be believed, that is already rejected by the public – tho I’m sure that’d be consulted on IF we’re an independent country.

akenaton

James, I don’t know if you realise what a still small voice we are here.
About 30% of the electorate have already been indoctrinated by the Sturgeons, another 20 % of women see her as a strong character who will stand up to the real villains of the piece, men.
Another large percentage of the pussies that men have become, will do exactly as they are told or will be given their marching orders in double quick time.
Sturgeon still has support and time has come to “cut off the head of the snake” by making people aware of her motivation regarding the future of this country.
If Mr Murray has dirt, he should get it out there immediately, time for us to “box clever” and use the UK media to rid ourselves of this pestilence.

Skip_NC

Robert Louis, this is one reason why we need parliamentarians who have a career before they enter politics – something to which they can return if they lose their seats.

Dan

Mind all those folks getting riled about raw sewerage pouring into the sea on the English coast, well in Scotland we still have human shite being transported about the country to be spread over the fields that grow our food, plus in some places it leaches off the fields into the burns killing the fish life so creating a double whammy McShitfest.
No doubt SEPA will / won’t (delete as appropriate) be all over this as and when they ever get their own IT shit back together.

gregor

From new musical “Lady M” (ft. George Blagden & Bradley Jaden): Mother Scotland:

“…We won’t disappear
Dear Mother Scotland
Your children are here
We were born in these hills among thistles and mud
The seas of the north were made from our blood

Our fathers have gone
But they have passed on this beautiful world of clay and stone
Now this is our home
We’ll never back down
Our tears run through rivers in every town
Our mountains stand tall protecting our land
Our hearts are the rhythm of waves on the sand
The stars in the these skies light fire in our eyes
And shine on the earth where our history lies

We march in a line…”:

link to tinyurl.com

Geri

Robert.

It’d call her bluff.
She can try every trick in the book. She no doubt will.

But if she kicks this into the long grass then her indy stragglers on the SNP will no longer have anything to cling to. She chose herself above them indy.

& They’re all out of WM next election. It’d be clear they’ve no interest in indy so there’s little point electing them there.

SusanAHF

Geri, why do “genuine trans” need special protections? They are still men. Women have had enough, no compromise on women’s rights

Geri

Scot Finlayson 1:56pm

Thanks for the info.

gregor

@Alf Baird re. ”I wouldn’t believe everything…”

…I wouldn’t believe anything MSM/State tell you.

I’m with Scotland@Reality…

Liz

@Geri I know, I took part in both

Viscount Ennui

I am not a yoonie troll.
But there are many here who will think me one.
I am one of the many victims of SNP corruption and I have been persistent in asking if the battle for independence is worth fighting if the powers are given to sh*ts llike Sturgeon and Swinney.
My view is no. In fact, I think the country would be in grave danger if this were to happen.
So regardless of voting advice, before commtting myself and my family to an independent state, I would want to know who would run it, and how.
I am in this for the long game.
The host of this site will respect that view even though it differs from his own, because he is a man of integrity.
We need a period of nation-building, a clear vision, and people who can lead.
We currently have a vacuum.
Discuss (25 marks)

J

Hi Stu,
Your contact form only seems to work in the text box but not to write name or email address.
Tried on different devices and OSs. Might just be me.
But are there any other emails I can look up anywhere? or P.O. Box if they still exist??
Cheers
J

Kcor

“If that will is not forthcoming, we’ll know everything we need to know about whether Nicola Sturgeon’s SNP is still a party of Scottish independence or not, or whether it’s simply the new Scottish Labour, a meek devolutionary entity interested only in staying in power and feathering its own nest with British money.”

Haven’t we know that for quite a long time now?

IMHO, the amendment laid by SNP MP Angus MacNeil has ZERO chance of passing.

Geri

Susan,

I expect for the same reasons as they do now? Employment laws, marriage & wills etc?

That is no way the same as self-ID.

Liz, apologies. I was suggesting how that could be void moving forward. A newly indy country would have its own EA & with it proper consultations carried out by the ppl who actually live here. Not Sturgeons crass rushed job with outside influencers.
No one outside of Scotland should have any say on shaping Scots law.

Ruby

Viscount Ennui says:
11 February, 2023 at 6:25 pm

I am not a yoonie troll.
But there are many here who will think me one.
I am one of the many victims of SNP corruption and I have been persistent in asking if the battle for independence is worth fighting if the powers are given to sh*ts llike Sturgeon and Swinney.
My view is no. In fact, I think the country would be in grave danger if this were to happen.
So regardless of voting advice, before commtting myself and my family to an independent state, I would want to know who would run it, and how.

The country would be run by those voted for by the people of Scotland.

All you would have to ask yourself is if you do or do not trust the people of Scotland to make good decisions or would you prefer the people of England to make decisions on our behalf?

Ruby

SusanAHF says:
11 February, 2023 at 6:19 pm

Geri, why do “genuine trans” need special protections? They are still men. Women have had enough, no compromise on women’s rights

Very good question SusanAHF!

I have no idea what is meant by trans far less “genuine trans”

gregor

Wise@Viscount Ennui (re. 8 February, 2023 at 10:09 pm) says…

“I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

Geri

The ppl calling for time.

There is no time.

Be under no illusions the SC decision is that it put to bed. It’s not. Plans are afoot in the background. Brown wants constitutional reform & Unionists of all shades are drawing up a New Act of Union to lock us in.
Add to that, Englanshire marching ever closer to a totalitarian regime. Scotland will be locked in & no debate about it. SC decided, remember. That means from this point on its carte blanche lock in.

If you want to wait then vote for Sturgeon, I guess. She has the same plan as you. Wait until it’s gone forever & no longer an option for good.

Also remember, the UK government also has its own self ID barney going on. Reject going for indy but end up with self ID anyway.

Tartan Tory

I’ve always had a lot of time for Angus MacNeil and was a bit disappointed that he didn’t jump ship to Alba. However, he may yet prove to be more useful for the independence campaign where he is.

I wonder how long it will be before Nicola finds a route to have him neutered or jailed…..

gregor

Why:

“For what reason.”

“I’m going home.” “Why?”

“There is no reason why we shouldn’t succeed.”

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

Ruby

Geri says:
11 February, 2023 at 5:51 pm

Ruby

Why you bothering yer arse with UK legislation? It’d be confined to the bin.

I think it’s good to be informed. There are a lot of people who don’t know the difference or more importantly the similarities between Sturgeons GRRB and the UK GRA 2004.

Thinking that the UK is perfect with regards to gender recognition could persuade someone to vote NO instead of YES. We must vote No ‘cos the Tories will save women’s rights
You know the thinking?

Also in an Independent Scotland we may have a debate on gender recognition and & it doesn’t hurt to be informed about the UK’s gender recognition act and and if we would want something similar.

gregor

@Glory to Scotland!..

Republicofscotland

Well done to Scotland’s national ruby team breaking their hoodoo with regards to the Welsh ruby team..brilliant.

George Ferguson

So well done Scotland we can win when are stoic. As a rugby fan I am concerned about the head impact assessment protocols. If I walked past Dan Biggar with a Tesco trolley with a lettuce waffing in air he would need an HIA. I am sorry Wales but he is a danger to other players and should not be playing. He lowered his body shape and was unbalanced. But the net result the Scottish No 2 was sinned binned and it could have been worse. I am genuinely concerned that Biggar shouldn’t play again. Look after the players whatever their origin of birth.

gregor

Snowgoose (2016): Harmony Springs:

Can’t you see that harmony springs
Can’t you see that harmony springs

@Forefront…

link to tinyurl.com

gregor

Mirror (11/02/2026): Ruthless Scotland run riot against Wales as Finn Russell shines in Six Nations win:

“Scotland made it two wins from two in the Six Nations with a 35-7 victory over Wales in which they led throughout and head to France later this month with a perfect record…”:

link to archive.ph

Breeks

The problem I have with any referendum isn’t just Sturgeon’s SNP, which is dire beyond belief, but just when we’re at last making some Constitutional progress with the Claim of Right and Scotland’s rights under International Law, it feels like putting our faith in the wrong place and turning away from the light.

We’re drinking another big gulp of UK Koolaid, and basing our strategy on the tired old colonial Scotland Act, which is Domestic UK Legislation applicable to regions, not nations, with Westminster sitting overlooking proceedings as bloated feudal superior, and using the Vichy Devolved Assembly which Sturgeon has driven in to a ditch again, and again, and again.

When is Democracy not Democracy? If I’m filled with dread by the notion of Sturgeon running an IndyRef, if it goes via the Scotland Act, either the Legislation is challenged in the UK’s “Supreme” Court, or we have Westminster dictating the terms and franchise. Fuckity fuck fuck, here we go again!

How very deeply I wish Sturgeon would just fuck off out the picture and stop turning the same Scottish Independence, which was an absolute shoe-in in 2016, into such an unfathomable and interminable fuck up.

Who in their right mind can look at the past 8 years of insufferable, amateurish, crooked deception and betrayal, which has riven the mighty YES movement top to bottom, cost Scotland billions while making our Nation an international laughing stock, fatally undermining the integrity of Holyrood, completely screwing up Brexit, and compromising Scotland’s sovereign Constitution by apparently knowing NOTHING about the Claim of Right, yet “somehow” people think this imbecile is still the doyenne who’s gonna lead us to freedom?

How fucking useless do you have to be to get the sack for feckless incompetence? Name me ONE fkg thing she hasn’t screwed up.

Impeach the damned place and it’s rancid, talentless First Minister, and stop playing these Mickey Mouse games with our Nation’s future.

For over 700 years, John Balliol, King of Scots has suffered the ignominy of being recorded as Toom Tabard, the “empty coat” puppet King with the broken scepter. Dinnae worry John Balliol, your purgatory is coming to an end. You’ll no longer be ridiculed as the worst leader this Nation has ever produced.

Geri

Ruby

By *genuine* trans I mean ppl who have 100% transitioned.

John Main

That’s a great amendment from MacNeil.

By counting the votes from all parties with Indy in their manifesto, he de facto says the SNP will be working with Alba, even if they will in public be at each other’s throats.

One aspect of that remains controversial though. Angus Robertson claims that a vote for Indy is automatically a vote for EU membership. Will Alba accept that ludicrous claim? Will hundreds of thousands of Scots, who might otherwise vote Yes to Indy? I know I won’t, and I suspect that informed opponents of the gender woo woo won’t accept it either. As gender reality denying is a global malady, only true Indy offers Scotland a chance to buck that trend.

Finally, it will be critical that the criteria for Yes winning are nailed down beforehand, not left blowing in the wind to be interminably argued in retrospect. As somebody has already pointed out, a 90% result for Yes on a 40% turnout won’t be persuading anybody in the UN or any other international body.

In summary though, great news. Six months between March and October for the Indy movement to get its shit together, flesh out the broad outline of what an Independent Scotland will look like, (boring stuff like currency, foreign policy, taxation, public spending commitments, service levels), get that outline signed off by relevant experts as feasible and affordable, then ask us Scots to vote Yes.

Six months hard graft to show us they have what it takes to run a small, resource-rich, aspirational first-world country.

Six months to persuade us that if we back them, they will play hard-ball with WM and WM will blink first.

I can’t wait.

DaveL

Gregor, if you insist on shitting btl quit with the nazi inspired ‘Glory to…’ slogan eh.

link to wsws.org

Mark Boyle

A real blast from the past for me with Rev Stu retweeting from John Cartwright:

link to twitter.com

Cartwright was one of those unusual members of the post-Sutch Official Monster Raving Loony Party in that he took fighting elections seriously (apart from a few honourable exceptions, the current lot are nothing more than pub acts doing anything for publicity and ex-UKIPpers judging by some of the bigoted crap they come out with), but didn’t do himself any favours though by slobbering publicly over Tim Henman and Prince William – even in Brighton, voters aren’t interested in candidates wittering on about who floats their boat.

He ended up falling out with the OMRLP in 2010 when its fat lying leader Alan Hope changed the party’s name with the Electoral Commission at one general election for “sponsorship purposes” (ie. his back pocket) with William Hill (a loophole now thankfully closed) and with the help of Tippex (and no small measure of connivance from the Returning Officer in Croydon …), fought the general election with the original correct name.

It was the beginning of his estrangement with a party that had become a bunch of sycophants around a tinpot fuhrer more interested when opening time was (just to show the SNP Parliamentary group under Iain Blackford weren’t that original …)

Three years later Cartwright joined the Tories – so guess he’ll be REALLY pleased to be retweeted by Wings Over Scotland!

Stuart MacKay

James Che @3:10pm

And here was I thinking I had a unique sense of humour.

In any case, bravo Angus, I forgive you, as long as you don’t repeat the “cull all the eagles” statement more than is necessary to get the votes.

John Main

@Gregor 6:55

A neat party trick is to recite that poem whilst also eating a hard-boiled egg sandwich.

Then, if you fluff your words, or your diction is unclear, you can explain it away by saying your sandwich was shelly.

SusanAHF

Geri, what difference does 100% transitioned make? They are still men.

Geri

Ppl are not voting for Sturgeon or the SNP.
Sturgeon would have stepped down. Gone. Holyrood has collapsed.

We’d be voting in a normal Holyrood election.

If it’s a pro indy majority that’s a mandate to be taken, along with Salvo, to the UN as our mandate for indy.

John Main

@DaveL 7:39

When are you going to realise we can’t and won’t be silenced by peeps like you hurling the ‘N’ word at us?

When are you going to realise that your undergraduate-level ignorance costs Indy support from every decent, thinking, Scot who sees peeps like you as typical of the movement.

gregor

@DaveL

…Don’t let @Reality leave you behind (and be happy)…

@John Main

I’ve still got faith in you…

Geri

John Main

62% voted remain.

& How many times do you need told that the EU has its very own referendum on EU entry?

As for all the other shite you list..

Aye. Right after you produce yer *brexit means brexit* white paper..

Get going & find it..

David Hannah

link to twitter.com

Pension Pete think McNeil is mad.

He’s tweeted 9 minutes ago.

“In a cost of living crisis, we would get hammered.”

Geri

Susan..

Because they’re still human beings who should have the same legal protections against discrimination as they did before this reform bill. They have lived amongst us perfectly fine for decades & have a GRC.

Is all hypothetical anyway. Either Scots shape its own EA with indy or have it imposed on us by the country next door.

& We all know we’ll get what England votes for.

gregor

Stephen Flynn SNP (08/02/2023): Twitter:

“An honour and a privilege.

Slava Ukraini”:

link to archive.ph

gregor

Herald (2022): Van’s RV-8 pilot creates Scottish ‘Slava Ukraiani’ message after R(redacted)a invasion:

“…air traffic controller, who usually operates out of Prestwick Airport, took to the skies on Friday to create his message.

It reads “Slava Ukraiani”, which transaltes as “Glory to U(redacted)e”….”:

link to archive.ph

David Hannah

Not even a victory at Murryfield with Runrig playing around the stadium can stir on Pension Pete to Independence.

He’s a coward. Coming up the first excuse. We’re too poor to go for Independence right now. Let the Tories impose more austerity while Nicola gives away Scotland’s assets.

That’s the pension Pete philosophy. At least we know he’ll be in the better together camp with the Tories in denying Scotland’s democracy.

PacMan

David Hannah says: 11 February, 2023 at 8:07 pm

link to twitter.com

Pension Pete think McNeil is mad.

He’s tweeted 9 minutes ago.

“In a cost of living crisis, we would get hammered.”

In a cost of living crisis, the SNP have embarked on an extreme version of GRR without any safeguards that nobody wants given the recent press coverage, put Holyrood in direct collision course with Westminster because of it and intends to fight it out in the courts.

If this guy’s brain-cells were dynamite, he wouldn’t have enough to blow the top of his head off.

Geri

LOL at the no voter hinting we need to behave! 😀 😀

*Peeps like you as typical of the movement*

Now who does THAT remind me of? Hmmmmm..

I thought you’d left in a strop? ;D

Republicofscotland

Sturgeon the Judas betrayers an entire nation (Scotland) yet she has the chutzpah to congratulate Scotland’s national ruby team on their win over Wales.

I wish this treacherous shit would just f*ck right off.

Vote Alba, Join Alba.

link to twitter.com

gregor

re. date apology: Mirror (11/02/2026): “Ruthless Scotland run riot”

@I’m only human…

DaveL

@John Main

I pointed out the roots of a particular slogan to someone who may or may not know. That is not slurring anybody.

PacMan

Ruby says: 11 February, 2023 at 6:54 pm

SusanAHF says:
11 February, 2023 at 6:19 pm

Geri, why do “genuine trans” need special protections? They are still men. Women have had enough, no compromise on women’s rights

Very good question SusanAHF!

I have no idea what is meant by trans far less “genuine trans”

Transsexual = Somebody who is fully medical transition to opposite sex
Transgender = Somebody who is only living as opposite sex.
Trans = Umbrella term that encompasses Transsexuals, Transgenders, Transvestites, Drag queens, Cross-dressing and all other identities associated with gender.

There is no doubt that some of the groups under the Trans umbrella object to being called Trans but please lay the blame to Stonewall and other groups for pushing it in the mainstream.

gregor

Introspection:

“Examination of and attention to your own ideas, thoughts, and feelings.”

“His defeat in the world championship led to a long period of gloomy introspection.”

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

John Main

@Geri

If you ever want to debate politely around facts let me know.

Angus Robertson went on record, saying that if Scotland votes Yes for Indy, EU membership will be a done deal, no further vote needed, 29 January 2023.

That’s a fact.

I infer from that that I won’t be voting Yes in the plebiscitary election this October. I guess there will be a fair few Scots thinking my way.

I ask the question if Angus’s statement will affect the position of other pro-Indy parties, such as Alba, and their supporters, on the October plebiscite.

Feel free to discuss the detrimental effects of Angus’s intervention, or post insults at me. The facts won’t change whichever option you choose.

You want EU membership so hard it hurts. Ditto an independent Scotland.

Choose one, cos one is the most you are ever going to get. Soz.

Dan

@ Geri at 8:00 pm

The question of whether a self-governing Scotland opts for EU membership has been discussed many times before.
Aye, Scotland was dragged out of the EU against its will and created the material change in circumstance as it highlighted Scotland’s lack of control of our destiny.
But that was with Scotland being part of the UK with its particular deal. Any future deal a self-governing Scotland may have with the EU is unknown and should be for Scots to decide. And that should not involve the tainted interference of the English biased media narrative, because England being a net importer and Scotland being a net exporter means the two constituent parts of the UK have very differing wants and needs.
So the question of Scottish membership of the likes of the EU, EEA, or EFTA really needs to be separated from the matter of Scotland returning to self governance.

That said the 62% for remaining in the EU back in 2016 was and should still be a good starting point for compromise and consensus positions to be reached between pro and leave EU folks though.
But the likes of Angus Robertson punting an Indy Scotland will be returning to the EU is out of order and an overreach. Sovereignty lies with the Scots and we should be the ones who decide our future on such matters.

Effijy

Ferguson Marine may have been preferred bidder!

£150 million over budget.

So did the Scottish Government want the work to stay in Scotland keeping money and jobs here? I certainly hope so.

Was Dido Harding failed communication director and Tory MP a preferred bidder for the hopeless track and trace scheme that wasted £50 billion.
How about Tory Minister Grayling wasting £150 million on Brexit ships from a Tory supporter who never owned or hired a rowing boat.

The Tories are world leaders in corrupt contracts for their own mafia who wet their beaks.

gregor

Pete Wishart (11/02/2023): Twit:

“…we’re going to collapse our Government…

We would get hammered.”:

link to archive.ph

gregor

Collapse:

“To fall down suddenly because of pressure or having no strength or support.”

“The sudden failure of a system, organization, business, etc.”

“The fact of not being successful.”

“Failure is not an option.”

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

gregor

…Heil Scot Gov@SNP@loser

George Ferguson

@Effigy 8:40pm
Knowing the difference between a man and a woman priceless.

Dan

@ Effijy

I noticed the other day that the ferry fiasco now has its own wiki page…

link to en.wikipedia.org

SusanAHF

100% transitioned or not women are no longer prepared to have them in their spaces. Trans identifying men can have laws against their discrimination as men. No reason to impinge on women’s rights. Even the so-called “genuine trans” have invaded women’s spaces for many years, blithely uncaring of women’s opinions. No more turning a blind eye. If feeling unsafe in their designated male spaces campaign for third spaces

Republicofscotland

Effigy.

I think Ferguson Marine was set up to fail, and the mechanism of that failure was CalMac/Scottish government keep on changing the design of the ferries, until the overspend and the timelines went out the window.

Where did the millions of taxpayers cash go to? certainly not on the lumps of metal that are passed off as ferries, dodgy PPE cost the taxpayers a fortune whilst the cash ended up God knows where, was this the case with at Ferguson Marine, millions over budget and years late lumps of steel, aka the ferries?

I wouldn’t put anything past this SNP government.

Vote Alba, Join Alba.

Mark

A devolved election is not a referendum. This is a total waste of time and is the sort of stunt that will not impress the opponents of independence – the majority. This is no way to win your precious independence. Grow up.

gregor

Times (11/02/2023): Four in ten voters want Nicola Sturgeon to resign now:

“Four in ten Scots want Nicola Sturgeon to resign immediately…”:

link to archive.ph

Merganser

The amendment by Angus MacNeil may well be allowed to show how democratic the SNP has suddenly become, Then when it is voted down they will say ‘that’s democracy working again’ and carry on just as before.

It’s all a ruse. Move along. Nothing to see here. Nice slippers Pete. You’ll be safe.

gregor

The People of Scotland (11/02/2023): Twitter:

@You know what to do…

link to twitter.com

gregor

GRAVE DIGGER (2010): The Clans Will Rise Again: Hammer of the Scots:

“Do you remember, the first son and king
Longshanks we call him, death he will bring
As we see him coming we running for our lives
At the end of the day we pay for their lies

Listen my friend his name carved in stone
My skin burned the sun, no fear we show

Raise your swords high Hammer of the Scots
We’re like thunder from the sky
Hammer of the Scots hold your flags high
Hammer of the Scots we are born to die…”:

link to tinyurl.com

Geri

John Main.

Do you know, with 100% accuracy, what an independent Scotland will vote for in any future EU referendum?

When that EU ref will be held?

Do you know, with 100% accuracy, that the SNP (far less Angus Robertson) will be in charge of an independent Scotland to implement thier wishes?

No. You don’t.

The SNP is a political party. It has ideas & puts it into what we like to call a manifesto. Ppl vote on its manifesto or they reject it.

Various political parties all get to write one. Yay! The winning party is then given a mandate.

See how this works?

Don’t like a parties manifesto? Fine. Pick another one..or even none at all.

Welcome to democracy.

I’m sorry you think this should be an individual vote – just for John Main & his wants. It’s not. Soz!

Geoff Anderson

I’ve been off grid for a few days and trying to catch up. However I won’t waste time on this one…Sturgeon will never let this be voted on…even if she did the payroll will ensure it fails.

Geri

Dan,

I agree with you. It’s for an independent Scotland to decide.

I don’t know how many times I’ve said to John that we cannot predict the outcome of any future EU ref or if there’d even be one at all. He seems paranoid about it. Every time indy topic arises he bleats on & on about the SNP & EU like someone is going to slip him back in under a cloak of darkness against his will.

The SNP shouldn’t be making promises because they don’t know either & they wouldn’t be in charge post indy anyway.

Shug

What’s taking Craig so along to search the shitty e mails to and from Nicola

Hurry up my popcorn is waiting

David Hannah

link to twitter.com

The whole of Celtic Park laughing at tory leader in Scotland, Douglas Ross today.

Merganser

Geri @ 9.37pm.

Re manifestos: Can you find for me the part of the SNP manifesto which said they would introduce self identification? I can’t find it, but if you can please let me know, so I can tell Jo Cherry where to look.

Alf Baird

Effijy @ 8:40 pm

“So did the Scottish Government want the work to stay in Scotland keeping money and jobs here? I certainly hope so.”

Scotland’s political leaders logically wanted the work to go to the Scottish yard. It was officials leading the procurement agency, who incidentally are not Scots, who wanted the order to go elsewhere. Officials thus had different objectives to the politicians. Ministers insisted the order be placed at the Scottish yard, so it was. However, officials running the procurement agency then delayed the delivery of the ships by insisting on making constant changes to the build process, which is what ultimately led to the yard going into administration and the added costs for the 2 boats.

Geri

It’s not in it.

But it WAS in the Greens manifesto.

The dangers of not doing three things..

1. Ditching the Greens, pronto!
2. Ignoring calls to ditch SNP 1&2 bollocks.
3. Voting in a super pro indy majority to block bullshit.

The parly is proportional representation.

Choose your friends wisely.

100%Yes

I’ve been led up the Indyref2 flag pole far too many times to trust the NUSNP on Independence. I for one don’t trust the NUSNP, its leaders or our FM when it comes to Scotland.

Breeks


Viscount Ennui says:
11 February, 2023 at 6:25 pm

I am not a yoonie troll.
But there are many here who will think me one…

…The host of this site will respect that view even though it differs from his own, because he is a man of integrity.
We need a period of nation-building, a clear vision, and people who can lead.

I don’t consider you a yoonie troll at all, but I don’t agree with you.

However dark and grim the affairs of Scotland, whether we be mired in debt, ruined by corruption, or suffering a crisis in self confidence and belief, there is no imaginable situation that is improved in any way by a Westminster Government plundering our Nation’s resources while our own people go cold and hungry.

Whatever might ail Scotland, the Union is always one more ailment to add to the list, never one less to remove.


“It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours, that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself”.

I detest Sturgeon and all her indolent mandate thieves, but I choose to believe a free and Independent Scotland would not be suffering the decadent corruption and hubris of the current SNP “government”. No legitimate Scottish Government could set itself above above the Claim of Right like Sturgeon has, and nor would Scotland tolerate a government without adequate impeachment protocols in place to sack a treacherous leader like Sturgeon.

Right now, it is Westminster and media who tolerate Sturgeon. We, the people, are not in control, and have only been granted the capacity to listen and be told, not to speak and do the telling.

In a free Scotland, there also wouldn’t be the enemy’s propagandists roaming our land, unchecked with a bloated monopoly on broadcasting, and free to indoctrinate our people with their pernicious lies and false narratives.

A man is free, whether he is healthy and free, or free but cursed with a diseased government, the freedom is sacred in both scenarios. There is no such thing as benign subjugation.

But each to their own heresy.

My own heresy is that I see Scotland’s Government and democracy as hopelessly dysfunctional and compromised. There isn’t a vote we can hold which isn’t rigged by restricted protocol or contrived franchise, or the narrative rigged by the media’s propaganda racket.

I happen to believe a referendum isn’t just the day of the vote. A referendum is the weeks and months of unfettered dialogue and informed discussion which enlightens the people before the vote, thus allowing them to make their collective decision wisely.

Under the tyranny of UK broadcasting, Scotland has no mechanism to ensure this discussion happens. Indeed, looking at the entire Brexit debacle, I fear the UK has no mechanism either.

I now see a Constitutional initiative which reaffirms the Claim of Right and Scottish popular sovereignty as an essential prerequisite of ANY serious or progressive attempt to resurrect the Independent status of Scotland. What’s so important about democracy when 95% of our politicians are utterly useless charlatans anyway?

Before Scotland’s people choose between Independence or Union, they must first choose between Scotland’s Red Sovereignty over Westminster’s White.

Only then, when the nation understands what Red Sovereignty means, will Scotland’s democracy have potency.

Ruby

PacMan says:
11 February, 2023 at 8:28 pm

Transsexual = Somebody who is fully medical transition to opposite sex

🙂

Are you telling me a man can be fully medically transitioned to being a woman?

It’s bloody incredible!

Sorry to do this to you Pacman but I’m going to have to ask
“What is a woman?’

Merganser

Geri @ 10.24. ‘Choose your friends carefully’

No need for that. I am just pointing out that political parties don’t always stick to their manifestos, and in the case of the SNP they do things which are not in their manifesto at all – not even discussed at conference, not voted on either. So voting for a party based on its manifesto is not a good guide in the case of the SNP.

Are you trying to justify the passing of the self identification legislation because it was in the Greens manifesto? A party which managed a handful of seats. I can’t find any other party stating they would introduce it either but they all to some extent (small in the case of the Tories) went along with it.

The system is rotten where this sort of thing can happen with complete disregard to the views of an overwhelming majority of the Scottish people.

What manifestos contain, or don’t contain, seems to be no good guide as to what a party will or will not do.

But I don’t expect any party in power like the SNP to force through legislation when they themselves have not debated it, voted on it, and not put it in their manifesto. That is far from the democracy I would wish Scottish people to have, and I hope you feel the same way.

President Xiden

The Clown Office. We are not safe in this country till the virtue signalling over ambitious cowards in our public institutions are identified and sacked. link to dailymail.co.uk

akenaton

Well I didn’t expect a bunch of Neanderthals to appreciate that the use of the word cunt in a derogatory manner is a disgusting slur on women. Strange that the fine women who comment here have let it pass.

gregor

GREEN MAG (11/02/2023): Twitter:

“Home Office to send more Channel migrants to Scotland as “hypocrite” Nicola Sturgeon fails to house fair share.”:

link to archive.ph

gregor

Hypocrite:

“Someone who says they have particular moral beliefs but behaves in way that shows these are not sincere.”

“This lie is not, however, the first to be uttered by the hypocrites of the yes camp.”

“To-day we have to practise what we preach or be denounced as hypocrites and lose our authority in the councils of the world.”

“Any interchanges which might follow, with each statesman describing the other as a “hypocrite”, might have some result.”

“So, we choose to be hypocrites instead – and life goes on as usual.”

“Some critics are quite rightly calling us hypocrites.”

“However, if we continue like this, we shall continue to be hypocrites.”

“In the unprejudiced judgment of impartial minds you will appear to be something in the nature of a hypocrite.”

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

gregor

Wings Over Scotland (11/02/2023): Twitter:

“We’re delighted that the police appear to have finally been given the go-ahead to interview current and former SNP officials about it.

We gather they’re being told some rather damning things.

We hope their enquiries go well.”:

link to archive.ph

gregor

Police:

“The official organization that is responsible for protecting people and property, making people obey the law, finding out about and solving crime, and catching people who have committed a crime.”

“I think you should call the police.”

“The police are investigating fraud allegations against him.”

“Thank heaven, in this country we have not got a corrupt police.”

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

Ruby

akenaton says:
11 February, 2023 at 11:10 pm

Well I didn’t expect a bunch of Neanderthals to appreciate that the use of the word cunt in a derogatory manner is a disgusting slur on women. Strange that the fine women who comment here have let it pass.

🙂

Maybe the bigger slur is to refer to part of a woman’s anatomy as a cunt.

I won’t be complaining about the use of the word cunt because you know and I know exactly what a cunt is.

If these newly enlightened bunch of Neanderthals think it’s an acceptable way to talk about a part of women’s anatomy I doubt if there will be any chance of a 2nd date with a woman for any of them.

My experience of the word is that more men complain about it than women.

Well that is a bit of an exaggeration I have experienced one man complaining about
it (right here on Wings) but it did feel like many because he complained all day every day for about six month up until he went off to spend time in his garden tending to his tulips!

gregor

The End Again (11/02/2023): Twitter:

“Should transwomen be allowed to play rugby for Scotland and on what team ?”:

link to archive.ph

Geri

Merganser

I don’t expect an independent Scotland would overlook a consitution or popular sovereignty.

The ppl decide.

Sturgeon & her cohorts would have been sacked & removed for working against public opinion & that consultation wouldn’t have been entertained on votes sought outside Scotland.

Holyrood is Westminsters parish council. It works within thier rules. Two thirds majority or until someone changes that rule & also proportional representation. A coalition if no majority is reached.

Sturgeon is a power tripping control freak. She did the green deal as evidence when she’d absolutely no reason to.

Don’t try compare apples with oranges.

I’m well aware manifesto pledges get binned. That’s the same of all parties.

There would be mechanisms to remove going way off script.

Why is it everyone automatically jumps to SNP whenever Scottish independence is mentioned? The yes movement doesn’t belong to the SNP.

gregor

Movement:

“A group of people with a particular set of aims or ideas.”

“A situation in which people change their opinion or the way that they live or work.”

“An occasion when something develops, changes, or happens in a particular way or direction.”

“Previous events in a sequence influence outcomes and trajectories, but not necessarily by inducing further movement in the same direction.”

“Information pick-up from the global array is not sufficient without adequate exploratory movements and learning to support perceptually guided activity.”

“In their study, participants were required to make fast movements to targets that either remained stationary or jumped to a new location.”

“We thus metaphorically refer to this kind of movement as ‘agnostic’ movement.”

“The internet has thus functioned for the burgeoning movement as an anchor and definer of identity.”

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

gregor

The Decadent Movement (2022): Bring me down:

“Bring Me Down portrays the world we live in today, where people are quick to judge others without thinking of the effects their words and actions can have on a person. No matter how a person may be behaving, there is always a reason for their actions and we should try and be more understanding”

– The Decadent Movement:

link to tinyurl.com

gregor

Scottish Music (2015): My Love Is Like A Red Red Rose (Lyrics):

“An old romantic ballad written by Scotland’s National Poet, Robert Burns. Sung and played by Josienne Clarke and Ben Walker.”:

link to tinyurl.com

Geri

LOL Gregory.

I see you must’ve temporarily mislaid yer dictionary for the *C* word!

We’ll played lol! 😀

gregor

@Geri

@Team Scotland…

gregor

SkyNews (11/02/2023): Julian Assange: Hundreds of supporters stage ‘night carnival’ calling for WikiLeaks founder’s freedom:

“Campaigners fighting for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange to be freed have staged a “night carnival” in the capital.

Around 2,000 people from the Don’t Extradite Assange campaign assembled at Lincoln’s Inn Fields, close to Holborn, before marching past Parliament Square at around 6pm on Saturday.

Assange has been detained at HMP Belmarsh in southeast London since he was expelled from the Ecuadorian Embassy in 2019, after being holed up there for more than seven years.

He is currently fighting extradition to the United States after submitting an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights in December.

Assange’s wife, Stella, addressed crowds at a rally in Westminster, holding up a scarf made by one of her husband’s most loyal supporters, the late Dame Vivienne Westwood.

Mrs Assange said the carnival made “a big impact on central London” and hailed the “incredible” response.

“We need to keep building until the movement is so big that those in power and the courts realise that there is nowhere else to go than to free Julian,” she said…”:

link to archive.ph

akenaton

I was being serious about the C word Ruby, but even more serious is the acceptance of our National disgrace Sectarianism, to further our cause. This country will never be great until both sides of this abomination are jettisoned.
Several times lately I have heard people try to justify the Bombing campaign in NI and the Orange Order still march to the beat of the drum.
Neanderthals are what they are, but do we need them in 2023?

100%Yes

The FM will never ever allow this to be passed. Sturgeon knows she can change the Scotland act to bring about an early election, instead the leadership has tried to make out that its impossible to call an early election. I heard today the SNP has lost 30,000 members, what will it take before someone in the SNP see that the FM is more trouble than she’s worth?

link to msn.com

Frank Anderson

I have no doubt both the conference and agenda committees are franticly scouring the rules/constitution to prevent this going forward. If it’s not in the rules, the NEC will either convene a meeting or invent a rule.
If by some miracle, which I doubt, it makes it to debate there will be the ‘big vuns’ lined up to call for him to leave the party.

PacMan

Ruby says: 11 February, 2023 at 10:46 pm

PacMan says:
11 February, 2023 at 8:28 pm

Transsexual = Somebody who is fully medical transition to opposite sex

?

Are you telling me a man can be fully medically transitioned to being a woman?

It’s bloody incredible!

Sorry to do this to you Pacman but I’m going to have to ask
“What is a woman?’

Even an experienced and well respected politician like Alex Salmond can’t use the proper pronouns of a male rapist in the current climate.

With that, good luck trying to sell that argument to the general population who might be inflamed by headlines but when you have a conversation when their passions have died down, the revert back to ‘Be Kind’ mode.

I know because I’ve been having conversations about this with a few people who are not remotely interested in politics or the trans issue.

Maybe gregor can post a dictionary link to the word Pragmatism?

SusanAHF

The Cotton Ceiling: advising trans identifying men on how to “get into lesbians knickers ”
Men can never be lesbians. These men need to realise that they have a very restricted dating pool: straight women who don’t mind having sex with fkd up men. “Lesbians” who do have sex with them aren’t lesbians, they’re bisexual. Even if they “100% transition” very few people are interested in an unnatural, surgically created Frankenhole.

akenaton

If Egyptologists can gender mummies over 3500 years old, surely it is not beyond present day medical science to give a definition which should end any debate.
All else is woke junk…..we are all mad to a certain extent but the woke are certifiable.

Geoff Anderson

Tavistock article

link to archive.ph

akenaton

Thanks for that link Geoff….absolutely disgraceful, surely this should signal the beginning of the end for Wokery

Effijy

Tory MP David Warburtons is in a little hot water as he failed to declare a £25K campaign donation. Well anyone could forget small sums like that?

Last year the Whip was removed after he was pictured with 4 lines of cocaine that he allegedly took in the kitchen.
Doesn’t everyone make 4 small lines of baking floor before baking bread.

He remains under investigation for alleged sexual misconduct.
Well if it’s good enough for Boris and they stopped you watching porn in parliament!

He has broken MP rules by lobbying a Russian Banker and receiving £150K from an offshore
Trust.
Well Boris took a donation from a Russian he put in the House of Lords.
Wee Baroness Ruth the Mooth took £20K from a Russian to pay for lunch.
Well lunches are getting expensive with double digit inflation and all.

Mr Warburton May have broken the law by faking documents in a £800,000 mortgage application.
Well if you don’t have real documents at hand and you have years of faking government statistics what else would you do.
The poor man could have been stuck in a house worth no more than £100,000,000.
How embarrassing if a Tory Minister was to visit him.

Do not worry as he has assured that he will stand again at the next election in his safe Somerset seat. He want to continue serving the people there.

Nothing to see here then so let’s nail Assange for telling the truth and giving politicians a bad name.

Run the borders

Erm what if the opposition boycott it?
Is it advisory? To whom is it advisory?
It’s just another tartan jerk circle so that nats can whinge.

Here’s an idea. Get yersels 65% over 5 years and it’s a nobrainer. But that would mean creating a very different approach. One that included democracy, good government and good governance.

Dorothy Devine

100%yes, I’d like to know how many have quit the SNP since ALex Salmond trial, the revelation of 600,000 quid missing , Joanna Cherry persecution , Craig Murrays imprisonment and Mark Hirst debacle . Not to mention the mature student in Dundee who had the temerity to describe the female of the species accurately and the mother in Govan .
If wee add them all together I wonder how many are left?

It must mean , according to the FM , that Scotland is full of bigots, transphobics ,fascists and racists .

PacMan

link to archive.is

The mother of transgender rapist Isla Bryson has said the 31-year-old never mentioned wanting to be a girl as a child.


The 31-year-old’s mother told the Sunday Mail her child gave no indication of being transgender while growing up.

She said: “I don’t know why it took him until he was 29 to say he wanted to become a woman. But I understand why some people think it’s just a way of getting out of going to a male prison.

“My son never expressed any wish to me that he wanted to be a girl, dressed in any other way or ever asked to be called by any other name than Adam growing up. Never once, at the age of four or at any other age.

“I would understand it more if this had been something he had been doing for years but that’s just not the case.”

John Main

@akenaton says:12 February, 2023 at 9:12 am

If Egyptologists can gender mummies over 3500 years old …

That’s an interesting and true observation, but I want to go back to your earlier post about the ‘C’ word. (Bear with me, there is a connection).

The ‘C’ word used to feature heavily on here, right up until Rev Stu came out of retirement last autumn, and was mostly used by posters using pseudonyms that are traditionally associated with the female sex.

It is therefore pointless to assume that anything should be inferred from the pseudonyms people post under. After all, the inference from your expertise on mummies, and your use of the name of a heretical pharaoh, is that you are a 3000 YO god-king!

David Hannah

Watching the morning politics. The Green SNP deposit scheme could cost between 20-40 per cent of products available to consumers. Drinks companies being faced with the devil’s choice, cease trading in Scotland or go bankrupt after August.

Lazy Lorna Slater couldn’t even be bothered to appear on the TV. Neither could any of the administrators.

The SNP Greens wanting to destroy business and make us all poorer, with no guarantee of our 20p back and in what form?

Just like their green emission zones in Glasgow without extra public transport.

They don’t know what they are doing. They never admit to ever getting it wrong. No one is ever held accountable. The public screaming at the Greens from the gallery every week.

Maybe the Tories will have to step in again and save business from Nicola like they did with self ID.

John Main

@Geri says:11 February, 2023 at 9:54 pm

I don’t know how many times I’ve said to John that we cannot predict the outcome of any future EU ref or if there’d even be one at all

I don’t know how many times I have pointed out that Angus Robertson said at the end of January there won’t be an EU referendum, because a vote for Indy will be a vote to join the EU.

I have to face it, Geri; you are incapable of rational discussion of real-world facts.

The SNP shouldn’t be making promises because they don’t know either & they wouldn’t be in charge post indy anyway.

Well, well. Do tell us who is going to arise from nowhere to form the first government of the Independent Scotland.

David Hannah

Nicola wants to be the wokest politician in the UK. Her politics would be too toxic to the environment to recycle. They’d need to bury her ideas deep underground with the toxic waste so that they aren’t disturbed and harm society for thousands of years to come.

Once Sturgeon is gone she’ll need to retire abroad. No one will hire her. She doesn’t listen to ideas. She should pack her bags and go. We can certainly pack her recycling scheme onto a shipping container to China, and dump it in landfill – where it might be more popular with the communist regime.

gregor

Telegraph (11/02/2023): Nicola Sturgeon plans to win over critics of trans reforms by selling it as ‘constitutional battle’:

“Nicola Sturgeon plans to win over critics of her controversial gender law reforms by presenting a legal fight with Downing Street as a “constitutional battle”, the Telegraph understands.

The First Minister is waiting for the furore over trans rights to “die down” before mounting a judicial review against the UK Government’s decision to block her Bill from receiving royal assent…”:

link to archive.ph

Andrew scott

O/T
Fergus ewing on with martin geisler this am
Rips the deposit scheme apart – call for a delay of at least 12 months
Producers have 6 days to decide whether or not to register at some cost
If a producer does not sign up he/she cannot trade in Scotland
Why should they have to deal with this nonsense from the Canadian green
Another fine mess

gregor

NationalScot (12/02/2023): Alex Salmond: Nicola Sturgeon ‘standing at the Rubicon’ on indyref2:

“The former first minister made the comments as he addressed the ­party’s National Council meeting in Ayr ­yesterday.

He said that there will be “no ­turning back” for Nicola ­Sturgeon if she continues with gender ­recognition reform plans.

Salmond told members: “Of all the issues to pitch a tent for a constitutional battle with Westminster, ­gender self-identification should not be one of them…”:

link to archive.ph

John Main

@Breeks says:11 February, 2023 at 10:40 pm

We, the people, are not in control, and have only been granted the capacity to listen and be told, not to speak and do the telling

Zat so, Breeks?

I am truly interested in your revolutionary ideas for how the Claim Of Right of 5.5 million sovereign Scots is to be harnessed. I don’t think building a new Parly to seat 5.5 mill is a goer, FFS, we can’t even build a few car-carrying wee boats.

So it will have to be some sort of online setup, with every Scottish home linked up to the Parly channel, endlessly listening to and taking part in the debates online, with 5.5 million votes cast at the end of every motion and amendment.

What that will do to the productivity of the nation, let alone our capacity to deliver groceries, nurse the sick, or unblock bogs, is terrifying.

I think instead the post-Indy Scotland will be wise to learn from best world-wide practice. A cadre of professional politicians setting the agenda, supported by a professional and competent civil service to implement the policies, with regular democratic elections to allow us sovereign Scots to replace failing politicians with potentially better ones. The politicians could campaign for election on a set of promises they will enact if elected – call it a manifesto or somesuch fancy word.

We would have to compromise on some timeline that mitigates against short-termism, so maybes an election every 5 years.

What do you think, Breeks? Got a better idea? If so, please specify the outlines at least, so we can decide if it looks plausible, feasible and affordable.

Maybes also explain why, if your idea is such a belter, nobody else has yet given it a try.

gregor

Scotsman (2021): Dear Nicola Sturgeon, please read this plea from a sister feminist about the trans debate – Susan Dalgety:

“…you love books and reading. At the start of this life-changing pandemic, you tweeted they were “always a source of comfort and perspective in tough times”…

I know you barely have time to draw breath these days, but can I recommend a third essential read by a woman? It was only published this week, so you may not yet have a copy, but I am sure the publishers will be happy to send you one.

It’s Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality…”:

link to archive.ph

gregor

Pete Wishart (12/02/2023): Twit:

“Secret meeting on “How do we stop this Brexit madness harming both our parties and how do we make it go away”?”:

link to archive.ph

Liz

@geoff anderson and our own Tavistock, Sandyford, is still up and running.
Sturgeon prefers allowing the ‘experts’ to do whats best.

Ruby

PacMan says:
12 February, 2023 at 8:54 am

Even an experienced and well respected politician like Alex Salmond can’t use the proper pronouns of a male rapist in the current climate.

With that, good luck trying to sell that argument to the general population who might be inflamed by headlines but when you have a conversation when their passions have died down, the revert back to ‘Be Kind’ mode.

I know because I’ve been having conversations about this with a few people who are not remotely interested in politics or the trans issue.

You’ve totally lost me PacMan. Sorry!

What pronoun did Alex Salmond use for a male rapist?

What argument are you talking about?

These people who revert back to ‘Be Kind’ mode do they feel Isla Bryson should be in a woman’s prison and referred to as she?

In what way do they show their kindness?

Does being kind to Isla Bryson mean they can’t be kind to women prisoners?

My argument is pretty straightforward it’s simple ‘NO SEX CHANGES’
I believe that is the kindest thing to do for everyone.

I think it’s cruel to let people believe they can change sex they just need to undergo some serious genital mutilation and then spend their lives taking heavy duty drugs with very serious side effects.

The above is about the group called transexuals.

My next post will be about the cross dressers/those living as a woman which look to me as being exactly the same thing. Autogynephilia I believe it’s called.

PS Don’t go asking gregor to make more posts he’s already hogging more than enough bandwidth & I frankly don’t like waiting half an hour for a post to upload because he’s spamming all over the place.

PPS I’m more than capable of looking up the dictionary without gregor’s help it could be that gregor needs my help.

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

gregor

Secret:

“A piece of information that is only known by one person or a few people and should not be told to others.”

“The spies had a secret meeting.”

“The government was accused of covert military operations.”

“He arranged a clandestine meeting between his client and the candidate.”

“All the information you give us will be treated as strictly confidential.”

“These documents contain classified information.”

“A closely guarded secret.”

“It’s a secret, so don’t give the game away, will you?”

“A secret report incriminating the company was leaked last week.”

“Shall I let you in on a little secret?”

“He revealed the secret under torture.”

“We keep secrets from ourselves that all along we know.”

link to dictionary.cambridge.org

Republicofscotland

The momentum is building for Sturgeon the Judas to stand down as FM, if the betrayer of Scots had any morals she would resign with immediate effect, and take Murrell with her.

Vote Alba, Join Alba.

“More than four in 10 voters in Scotland think First Minister Nicola Sturgeon should resign immediately, according to a new poll carried out amid controversy over gender recognition reforms.

The Panelbase survey for the Sunday Times found that 42% of respondents thought she should stand down now, while 45% said she should remain as First Minister at until at least the next Holyrood election, and 13% didn’t know.”

link to msn.com

mark

Collapsing the Holyrood government and engineering an election will be a badly timed stunt that will not go down well with the voters you need to win over. And nor is a “de facto referendum” a concept that has any legal standing. It is just another waste of time.

Wilson McBride

I see Main has his fishing rod out this morning.

I wonder how many bites he’ll get.

Like Greyfriar’s Bobby,,,John Main lies at the graveside of English Ellis every night.

The poor guy has been at a total loss since his soul mate Ellis left for that big blog in the sky.

Main has now been reduced to the status of a demented wreck, with no possibility of a cure.

Members of the public have been advised to ignore this simpleton if he approaches you in any way.

fruitella the hun

Greens are all about living within environmental boundaries, which are biologically determined. It is ridiculous that the Scottish Green Party are currently spearheading TWAW and favour the expulsion of transphobes from a party that really should still have respect for biological rules at its philosophical core. Such “biological determinism” is (in the view of those who advocate arcane Queer Theory notions and shout “fascist!” at opponents), quintessentially transphobic.

But the threats of expulsion make sense if one is aware that the party was invaded and occupied by economic determinists (Marxists), who hate the restrictions nature puts on human dreams just as much as the oil and tech billionaires do. In their grip the Scottish Green Party is currently a pointless endeavour, achieving very little despite the technical leverage it has over a minority SNP “government”.

They also know that every bit of hydrocarbon we burn will cost more to sort down-the-line than the economic benefit it brings today (at least to the lucky “beneficiaries”). Yet their party still goes along with an economic outlook in the SNP that needs growth to have any hope at all of keeping the promises they made to the electorate, and which won them jobs in WM and HR.

Real Green policies mean economic contraction not expansion, and will have to deal with the obvious problems that will cause, particularly for those with investment capital who are the main beneficiaries of economic growth. Winning an election on this manifesto does not look likely given how deeply the economic growth doctrine has been stamped into the popular psyche.

Forty-five years ago I was arguing with sceptical environmental activists that we needed to participate, carefully, in the electoral system. This would help to educate ourselves and others about what brings support and maybe whiffle, say, 5% of the vote – an amount of interest to the other parties. They would have to address some of our issues to defend their position. That happened but has produced mostly greenwash.

Times have changed and we now need to concentrate on bypassing the government and engaging in local projects to test out better ways of organising our needs – food, housing, energy, care. Potential local leaders for this exist throughout our community and should emerge as projects start forming.

But we still need good people in a democratic legislature to clear away obsolete laws that block local projects from working, whilst also managing the inexorable decline of our legacy (fossil fuel powered) life-support systems. How do we organise that? Are there such people in parliament at the moment? I suspect it is full of campaigners and intriguers who rarely make for good administrators.

PacMan

gregor says: 12 February, 2023 at 10:52 am

Telegraph (11/02/2023): Nicola Sturgeon plans to win over critics of trans reforms by selling it as ‘constitutional battle’:

“Nicola Sturgeon plans to win over critics of her controversial gender law reforms by presenting a legal fight with Downing Street as a “constitutional battle”, the Telegraph understands.

The First Minister is waiting for the furore over trans rights to “die down” before mounting a judicial review against the UK Government’s decision to block her Bill from receiving royal assent…”:

link to archive.ph

If Nicola Sturgeon has a strategy of waiting until the Trans controversy dies down then good luck to her.

Men have been sent to woman’s prisons not only here in Scotland but throughout the UK for years by declaring themselves Trans but only now when she passes the GRR bill and associating the bill with the constitutional debate does it becomes front page news.

Anything criminal involving individuals who come under the Trans umbrella will be given more media attention and I can’t see it dying away any too soon. Given the unionist propensity of attacking anything to do with the SNP, it will actually get worse.

As Alex Salmond said in his interview with Talk TV, whatever your views on Trans, the individuals involved are human beings and their lives and issues they face shouldn’t be used for pawns in any political debate, never mind one as heated as independence.

If Nicola Sturgeon had an once of decency, she would give up the whole thing and admit she was wrong.

Tom Kane

These are busy, dangerous and interesting times.

Nicola and Peter won’t step down. It’s up to the police now.

Whether the SNP has any integrity or self-respect left will become clear before the March conference.

Dear SNP, weren’t you meant to be the party of Scottish Independence?

Who can trust you or your Parliament-misleading First Minister or your Chief Executive Fanancial Fiddler and WhatsApp Warrior? Other than Unionists, that is…

Wilson McBride

Even if Sturgeon resigned tomorrow, a Holyrood plebiscite election in October is far too soon.

Maybe Spring next year.

Gives the Yes movement time to get up to speed and do what it does best,,,get the Indy message out there to the man and woman on the street.

The beauty of the Angus MacNeil amendment is that it can be triggered at a time of OUR choosing.

PacMan