Scotland’s Disgraces
The list below is a much, much shorter one than we were expecting to run. In the end, just nine MSPs voted today against Johann Lamont’s amendment on forensic medical examinations, with one abstention. The amendment passed by a margin of 104 votes after SNP MSPs voted in favour, with only the Greens and Lib Dems opposed.
Every last one of them is a disgusting coward who doesn’t care about the feelings of rape victims and we’re ashamed to share a nationality with them.
We note in passing that all but one are male, and that the list includes all (excepting Alison Johnstone, currently absent from Parliament recovering from an operation) of the Scottish Greens, the party which has – by choice – the lowest proportion of women in the Parliament. The Lib Dems, of course, are second lowest, in every sense.
Lamont made two extremely powerful speeches with the only contribution directly opposing the amendment coming from Andy Wightman for the Greens, who bizarrely appeared to hold rape victims responsible for the behaviour of some people on Twitter.
Alex Cole-Hamilton made a brief interjection to say the Lib Dems were opposed but without making an actual argument, and Labour’s Monica Lennon made an appallingly misjudged speech in which she attempted to completely undermine the amendment by saying that transwomen with a GRC were in fact “of the female sex” and should as such be allowed to conduct the intimate examinations of rape victims even after the change of wording from “gender” to “sex”.
Every pic above is a link to the Member’s page on the Scottish Parliament website, on which they exhort you to email them. We encourage all their constituents to take them up on the invitation and let them know how you feel.
I bet Beatrice Wishart feels a bit of a plum tonight!
Notwithstanding the above, Ross Greer remains the the undisputed leader of the Ross Greer Movement.( currently residing c/o the Scottish Greens)
Hi
I cannot find a link to the voting results. Can you paste it here, please? There seem to be a few missing. Thank you
Well. Good for the rest of them. Perhaps the flood of emails, largely encouraged by Wings, has concentrated minds wonderfully.
Let’s hope Mr Wightman never needs to do another crowdfunder.
@MWS
She’s no feelin ma plums!
I’m told by a source within the chamber, incidentally, that the Scottish Government caved after it became apparent that it was facing a rebellion of sufficient size that the amendment was going to pass.
Christ, what a pack of horribly creepy misogynists the Lib-Dems and Greens are.
I am really interested if my SNP Msp that I voted for voted in favour of Johann Lamont’s admendment.
If he abstained, I would like to ask him why and express my disgust and tell him that he has lost 20 votes from my family and will encourage them to tell their friends and family and ensure he will never be elected again.
That line-up of Scotland’s disgraces is strangely reminiscent of something.
Oh yes, merely a fortnight ago, the new SNP NEC was attacked (inaccurately — but when did facts matter) by the dummy-spitting yoof for being so, er, male, pale and stale.
Thank you Rev, as ever, for standing up for common sense. Perhaps the tide is really turning.
Well done to Joanne for putting forward a sensible amendment
I’m surprised at Andy Wightman and think that he was bounced/whipped into voting against the amendment. If I recall correctly he was treated harshly by party colleagues when he shared a platform with someone who was.comsidered gender critical by his party leaders.
He’s a good guy.
@ Rev: I thought that must have been the reason because there was an almost complete silence from SNP MSPs, apart from K Gibson and R Maguire, to the flood of emails sent to them.
This shows that the Government and backbenchers are cowards. No-one spoke up in favour of what the leadership imposes all the rest of the time. Their position was threatened so they voted to save their seats. I wonder how happy Joan McAlpine feels – having suffered from the “Emperor’s new clothes” lobby attacking her, to see them supporting her view?
“I am really interested if my SNP Msp that I voted for voted in favour of Johann Lamont’s admendment.”
Only one person abstained, almost certainly a Lib Dem.
Every one of them have omitted their middle names…..
‘fucking’
as in, willie fucking rennie
No surpises among that lot, though it’s always disappointing to see Andy Wightman there. Otherwise he’s generally sensible and a powerful and knowledgeable advocate of land reform.
Out of interest, which one of the above was the ‘abstention’?
Sent to Ross Greer, the only one that represents me.
Dear Ross
If you’re prepared to get off your arse for Independence, you’ll find me right by your side. In the meantime, your vote today against the Lamont amendment means I cannot vote for you next year.
It’s about time you and your party got real. Women deserve to be heard on the subject of self ID. They have genuine fears and they get shouted down as “Terfs” by idiots when they express those fears. You are on the wrong side on this and ultimately this is not the time for these arguments.
Chaos is coming in January without a deal with the EU. Get off your arses and fight for the future of your country. Once that battle is won you can argue for whatever you want and I’m certain you’ll have my support in much of it. Please focus on Indy.
Wightman really let himself down. He would have done himself more good had he remained silent and allowed us to assume his was a vote of true conviction.
I’m disappointed in John Finnie who is ex SNP and also Andy Wightman I had thought him more intelligent and reliant on these things. I wonder if the Greens whipped their people hard which might explain it though they look like silly idiots to me and I doubt I will ever vote for them again after they zoomed down the woke rabbit hole.
As for the FibDems, hell mend them. I expect post independence with all that will happen they may disappear or end up just as the odd councillor here and there.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
10 December, 2020 at 6:41 pm
“I’m told by a source within the chamber, incidentally, that the Scottish Government caved after it became apparent that it was facing a rebellion of sufficient size that the amendment was going to pass.”
—————————————————————–
So what you’re saying is they voted for the amendment out of political expediency rather than any sense of decency ?
Will the abstention not be Ken Macintosh in his position as ‘speaker’ (sorry can’t remember the exact job title). If so, he is only allowed to vote in the event of a tie.
Does the above mean that Nicola Sturgeon did not vote for this Policy.
And does it also mean that John Sweinney has found his spiney – sorry could not resist.
If I am correct, the Presiding Officer does not vote, so is he the abstention?
The rest were either afraid of a backlash or they were shamed into voting for the amendment but it doesn’t change the fact that it is disgrace that this amendment had to even be brought forward to start with, still sanity prevailed in the end, hopefully this is the beginning of the end of the gender woo woo nonsense.
it would seem the email campaign helped to persuade the SNP managers that they were on a hiding to nothing not backing Lamont’s amendment.
Maybe the party hierarchy might reflect that they brought this on themselves with the sloppy gender wording anyway.
This could be the start of the SNP realsing that all this woke stuff is a vote loser. We can only hope.
I think the Presiding Officer only has a casting vote in the event of a draw
Well done Stu a great campaign. I wasn’t going to vote at all in May but perhaps there is hope for Joe Fitzpatrick. He is a decent guy in real life I can attest to that. At the moment I am still not voting but he has made progress with voting for this amendment. If only he can change the direction of this malevolent administration. The writing is on the wall. SNP MSPs get a grip and change the direction before it is too late.
I have six more words for this shower of creeps. Why don’t you all fuck off. Message ends.
‘Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
10 December, 2020 at 6:41 pm
I’m told by a source within the chamber, incidentally, that the Scottish Government caved after it became apparent that it was facing a rebellion of sufficient size that the amendment was going to pass.’
Unfortunately the GRA madness would appear to be the fastest way of Identifying our SNP members who are somewhat less than committed to pursuing Indy.
While the vote is important, had they voted in line with their convictions, we would have been more able to identify the enemy within. Hopefully it has rattled their cages enough to realise, they do not have a job for life, and its very close to put up or pack up for good time.
Don’t insult the Greens too much Stu.
We may need them for some upcoming no confidence votes.
“So what you’re saying is they voted for the amendment out of political expediency rather than any sense of decency?”
Yes. Except that we don’t know how many of them were going to rebel and therefore provoked the decision.
Johann Lamont went up in my estimation with her ‘only a branch office’ jibe at head office when she stepped down as leader. They haven’t had a leader at least as good as her since.
She has done various good things like this since. She may actually be an asset to indy Scotland after all.
Since a lot of this insanity comes out of the Left it was good to see SLAB has not fallen to the Woke yet. Let’s hope diaffected woke go bother the Greens and FimDems.
Are the Greens still a Yes party or is that conditional on it being a woke hell hole?
Some compassion should be shown to wee Willie Rennie – does anyone really believe he understood any of it.
Rather think his voting decision went along the lines of – one potato, 2 potato, 3 potato, 4….
It wil have tired him out for the month.
“If I am correct, the Presiding Officer does not vote, so is he the abstention?”
No, he never normally has a vote.
Well done Rev. Another victory, although small, in the fight against the GRA. First the rout of the NEC, now this reversal. If as you say the Government caved because defeat was on the horizon,then maybe, just maybe, the worm is turning amongst SNP MSP’s. Some are maybe growing a spine and defying her ladyship.
A lot hinges now on the enquiry and any confirmed breach of the ministerial code. Even she can’t survive “everything”. Jings there might even be a vote of no confidence against her if she doesn’t resign in those circumstances.
That’ll make their new found spines tingle. Choices eh?
The FibDems are really vulnerable both to the SNP constituency surge and us in the ISP on the List. We could make them extinct in the next parliament. I would have said maybe we should let Wightman in but after today I’m not so sure.
“No surpises among that lot, though it’s always disappointing to see Andy Wightman there. Otherwise he’s generally sensible and a powerful and knowledgeable advocate of land reform.”
He’s been a cunt for ages as far as I’m concerned. Despite being involved in a costly defamation case himself he backed Kezia Dugdale 100% against me.
I could be angry at the nine, but I’d rather be appreciative of the 100+. We don’t always like our parliamentarians, but good on them today. The chamber is not completely devoid of principles.
Anybody on here still thinking of voting green on the list. Time to reconsider
So Monica Lennon argued against the amendment – while trying to obscure what she was or was not arguing for or against – so basically simultaneously trying to side with both women and misogynists.
So basically trying to get others to do her dirty work (which ultimately is forever to be a loyal servant to the British State) – but not having the actual guts to vote the way she was arguing others should vote….
Monica Lennon defines the term “craven coward”.
Is John Finnie not a retired cop?
If so he absolutely should have known better.
I think the ISP over in Fife should push how the FibDems voted this afternoon hard.
“A lot hinges now on the enquiry and any confirmed breach of the ministerial code. Even she can’t survive “everything”. Jings there might even be a vote of no confidence against her if she doesn’t resign in those circumstances.”
I wouldn’t bet a lot on it, but I think if either inquiry found she broke the code she’d prefer to resign with some shred of dignity rather than be dragged out kicking and screaming by a VoNC.
Yes Daisy Walker@7:06pm.
Some of them have obviously voted to save their seats rather than out of conviction.
The Greens are just a shower of shits. How can they expect people to take climate change seriously when they don’t have a grip even of basic biology? The Libdems are just weird.
Also, not seeing much about this in the Scottish media. At least we know they are still wankers.
Initial reply from my Stirling MSP was standard office reply four days ago and then received this half an hour after the vote;
“Thank you very much for your e-mail in regard to an amendment laid by my colleague, Johann Lamont MSP, to the Forensic Medical Services (Victims of Sexual Offences) (Scotland) Bill.
I am now writing to you to let you know that having listened very carefully to the debate at Holyrood today I voted in favour of Johann’s amendment.
Best regards
Bruce Crawford MSP “
Wow! Andy Wightman, I had a lot of respect for Wightman, he had some good ideas on land reform, and fought and succeeded in the courts defending his principles.
However after this my estimation of the guy has plummeted Beatrice Wishart aside, of whom I know nothing, the rest are a pathetic bunch, of attention seeking egotistical nobodies who should be ashamed of themselves.
Wishart is surely vulnerable in a community like the Shetlands on this.
Regarding SNP caving in:
I know of one prominent Minister that I am almost certain would have resigned if they had tried to whip the vote to block the amendment
They would have lost the vote and ministers
Who would that be Douglas@7:20pm?
So shocked that the highly educated and very scientific Greens have been captured like this. Reconsidering my membership after 35 years, despite the planet dying.
John Finnie was indeed a serving Police Officer from 1976 for 30 years. His last years – a warm up to becoming a politician – he was full time Police Federation Rep.
Police service attitude to women (including female officers) Domestic Abuse and Sexual crimes has changed (for the better) quite considerably over the last 25 years.
His experience as a Police Officer and his access to expert opinion in the field and the potential problems this poorly thought out legislation had the real potential to promote – really should have lead him to vote in a different manner today.
The Polis in 1976 was a deeply sexist organisation, and recruited accordingly. It may well have left its mark.
I wonder if the Orcadians will make a connection between the trendy, finger on the pulse of the zeitgeist, pseudo-intellectual, gaslighting facists who are behind this gender fakery and their clones who manufactured the illusion of the islands being populated by covens of evil Satanic child abusers?
I certainly hope so.
Credit to the SNP whips who told Ministers they would simply not co-operate with any instruction to vote the amendment down.
SAS is having a reasonably hard time on twitter from some TRAs over this.
Hi Tannadice Boy.
Joe is my MSP also. I’ve always regarded him as a “good guy”, rather than a w***.
Were you at any of the ‘Friends of WOS’ get-togethers at Invergowrie?
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
I backed Wightman in his libel case with Wildcat Enterprises. His efforts on land reform showed the entire Scottish Government to be a bunch of foot-dragging, spineless, toadies to the landed gentry. He really shot himself in the head on this. Years of valuable work and a reputation (ignoring the Dugdale wounds) gone never to return. I’m sure he sleeps soundly at night knowing his ideology is still intact, but at what price, Andy, at what price.
Definitely looking forwards to Lib-dem annihilation in the northern counties next May – if only the SNP wise up and realise that devolution does not stop in Edinburgh and it does not stop in Inverness. Give the north of Scotland some reason to think that they’re not just an after-thought and largely ignored and they’ll drop the yella-bellies in a heartbeat.
Nice to see that Wightman was more concerned about a bit of cyber abuse he apparently got on Twitter, than the actual physical and sexual abuse some women endure. Oh well. Now we know.
Damm it
If this was an open vote not subject to being whipped it may have revealed the dodgy feckers apart from the obvious one’s mentioned. Alas we’re no wiser of the SNP one’s that would have voted against.
Can you have an open vote(non whipped) in an amendment to a bill?
Rev??
Daisy Walker
Are the polis not heavily into blindly enforcing acceptance of every conceivable aspect “inclusiveness” as defined by the crew who have replaced the church as our new moral guardians.
In which case, him siding with the Emperor’s new dressmakers is the mark.
I was one of so many who appear to have pricked the conscience ( thanks to Stu ) if not the bank balance of my MSP. Have only had automated reply which having previously had prompt correspondence it appears they were shitting themselves,serves them right, time to bloody well listen to who elects them.
As for Johann Lamont, listened to her impassioned speech, and her well deserved kick at the woke brigade, it was clear how much this meant to her and the work she has done with the women who have lost so much, hopefully they may have a better voice in the future and some protection from the hairy arsed cock and ball “women”
Relief at the result. The last time I was this anxious was September 2014. Better result tonight. Was intrigued by Jeane Freeman saying the amendment basically didn’t matter, was she trying to help colleagues support the amendment or squirming her way out of a problem that was out of her control?
Whatever, a good thing happened.
[…] Wings Over Scotland Scotland’s Disgraces The list below is a much, much shorter one than we were expecting. In the end, just […]
The problem is Monica Lennon is right – transwomen with a GRC are legally classed as “of the female sex”.
It would be unlawful for a female rape victim to refuse being examined by a GRC carrying male-bodied transwoman.
The GRA has made a huge error – there’s not a certificate in the world that can change a person’s biological sex
GRA bill runs coach and horses through women’s sex-based rights – that’s what needs reversed
Glad to see your not getting as much flak now gender politics has become more mainstream. Thanks for all you do.
“SAS is having a reasonably hard time on twitter from some TRAs over this.”
Good.
It has been an eye opener but I still don’t trust the SNP in this area. Time and again they have shown that every Bill they propose has to be gone through with a fine-toothed comb to pick out the genderist ambiguities.
“The problem is Monica Lennon is right – transwomen with a GRC are legally classed as “of the female sex”.”
That’s not quite true. There are exemptions under the Equality Act specifically for situations like this. But in general you’re right.
I think the Greens have just written their obituary, as who can take them seriously when they deny the bio-cultural nature of politics and the biology of the electorate. Not exactly compatible with an ecological perspective, is it? They’re a party that appears caught-up in the irrational, and is in serious need of professional help, IMHO. So here’s a look at “Bioethics and the Human Goods – An Introduction to Natural Law Bioethics “.
link to press.georgetown.edu
Rev, I thought there were a few similarities with Andy Wightman’s winning judgement and Dugdale’s. From memory he had made 2 errors which were potentially defamatory but he’d meant well.
Secondly, I’d hoped that the majority on this vote indicated a recognition within the SNP that the tide had turned on these issues. Perhaps not yet then, if the Whips couldn’t hold the line.
“From memory he had made 2 errors which were potentially defamatory but he’d meant well.”
And you think Dugdale “meant well”?
This illustrates, exactly, why Scotland needs an independent parliament and government.
Thank you Rev- I’ll bet the woo woo crowd are rueing the day they all conspired to have you banned from twitter. Your blog is my first go to place nowadays.
Forgive my ignorance but who is SAS?
Gutted at Andy Wightman. What a total let down. The rest we already knew were misogynists. Apart from Beatrice, she’s just thick.
Craig – Sorry, no idea what SAS is. Apart from letters of the alphabet, of course.
Craig
None the wiser myself. 😉
Craig says:
10 December, 2020 at 8:12 pm
Forgive my ignorance but who is SAS?
—————————————————————–
Shirley Ann Somerville
@Brian Doonthetoon
I wasn’t at these events. I know him from campaigning events, SNP functions etc.
SAS is Shirley-Anne Somerville, the minister behind the GRA, who rose without trace, has a track record of ineptitude and no obvious ability, and yet is protected and promoted by Nicola Sturgeon.
SAS = Shirley-Ann Somerville, the High Priest Person of the Wokie Woo Woos.
If you have anything to say just call the Trans Women’s help line
and ask to speak to the man in charge!
More info on SAS should folk wish to take a look.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Wall of Shame. We won’t forget these names or faces.
I only got 3 relies from all the MSPs for my area.James Kelly Pauline McNeil both said supporting JL. Harvie of course was not. Tried to say Rape Crisis Scotland were also against it ! Also tried to make out it was about getting more women into the role of M.E than anything to do with gender/sex. He of course got TELT in 2 replies! lol Bet PH would live a nice Tranny nurse all to himself!
I think it is disgusting that the Scottish Government caved in as they were likely to face a rebellion.
If they had got the wording right in the first place there wouldn’t be a need for a amendment.
More concerned about their bloody image and seats.
SAS = Shirley-Ann Somerville
Thank you to all that replied.
Over 100 for, and 9 against. That’s a clearer than clear message. Absolutely no doubt about what it means
The tide of public opinion is absolutely against the trans – woke brigade. First the rout of the wokes from the NEC and now the Parliament taking very much the same line.
It would certainly be interesting to find out who voted against and who abstained. No doubt the Rev will update on that in the very near future.
Well done to Jonna Lamont for the amendment and an impassioned speech. And well done too to Sandra White for her fulsome support. Together the Parliament has spoken and a further message sent to an out of touch First Minister and her rotten clique.
Their time is now very limited.
Oh gee wiz I must have been watching a recording of the chamber when I was making comments I hadn’t realised the vote had been taken and was surprised at the final result ,
Now if that’s not a final answer to this WOKE pish then they are indeed deaf as well as stupid , a good presentation by Johann Lamont when she called out all the silent ones they know who they are and I bet she does as well ,
She also called out two government ministers I can’t remember who but if someone can remind me I would be obliged, both need to go , no excuses just get them out of office their brains are obviously in a strange place maybe they are in the wrong body who knows,
On the topic of wrong bodies who can tell now judging by the Lady Boys in Thailand. , my brother in law lives there and even he can be fooled sometimes, he maintains that the give away is the Adam’s apple for some reason that’s a problem hiding or disguising it , anyway his advice is don’t mess with them they can be vicious after all they despite appearances they are still essentially men dressed as women with a bad unstable attitude
It is earnestly to be hoped this is another nail in the coffin of the nauseating TRA project, but we still need to ensure that a metaphorical stake is driven through its rotten heart. Perhaps the gender woo brigade have over reached, but it’s up to all of us to ensure that the door hits them hard in the arse on their way out.
The wailing and gnashing of teeth from the usual suspects, and the bad grace with which this was done by the party managers, while entertaining in itself demonstrates that they’re not about to give up.
The new NEC and (hopefully?) those ordinary members who feel emboldened by recent events need to step up and act now: make it clear to these misogynistic roasters they are not welcome in the party, nor do they represent the early days of the better nation the vast majority aspire to live in: they’re a regressive, mens-rights supporting, a-scientific cult parasitising the Yes movement.
I see some of them are threatening to leave Scotland, not just the party. Truly, Scotland’s gain will be their destination’s loss – but I’ll happily contribute to 1 way tickets for any of them! 🙂
Oh I forgot to say if it wasn’t for the Rev being well , one of the Awkward Squad, we wouldn’t have known about this little troublesome local problem that was happening right in front of us
So Cheers to Stu for being well Stu well done pal we all dodged a bullet with that lot on the prowl
Male, pale and stale personified. And this is supposed to be the progressive faction?
Wow, thank you Johann Lamont for a truly inspirational, evocative, eloquent and powerful speech. It felt so real and honest and put women survivors at the heart of everything she said. She showed grace under pressure and her fighting spirit shone brightly throughout. A very welcome breath of fresh air.
The government was forced to drop their opposition to the amendment because of the tsunami of e-mails sent to our elected representatives, with a nod to Stuart for urging us to do so. They have been left in no doubt about the strength of feeling gathering momentum and unstoppable. This matters a great deal, as you are finding out. 2 votes SNP? I don’t buy that anymore.
Big praise for JL, she was amazing today.
Re: the ladyboys- You can get an operation to file down the Adams apple and reshape your brow to appear more feminine.
I’ve had an email from my constituency MSP confirming that he voted for the amendment. He also provided reasons for his vote and expressed concern for the victims of sexual crime.
A picture gallery of weirdos , and I mean in their attitude to women
‘Jack Deeth’ has left the SNP. He has been found out. He was never for Independence.
Good Riddance to really bad rubbish.
.. a little light relief courtesy of Timothy Garton Ash in The Guardian:
“Any British politician who wants the Scots to stick with the English must soon present a different, federal model of the British union as the alternative to independence. So the choice will be the end of the UK or a new Federal Kingdom of Britain. (Federal United Kingdom produces an unfortunate acronym.)”
Madness, the whole thing is madness, they are our legislator, they should not be creating laws based on some totally loony, temporary, fad.
SusanXX said: “The Greens are just a shower of shits. How can they expect people to take climate change seriously when they don’t have a grip even of basic biology? The Libdems are just weird.” Which I think covers the select few above.
I am glad to hear that the Scottish government can be influenced by the main body of MSPs – I thought the SNP leadership had total and utter control, each SNP MSP quivering in fear and always capitulating lest they lose their jobs. Maybe a rebellion is possible on other matters too…
Once again, for me, a sense of relief. The dignity of the female upheld.
Gutted about Andy Wightman. I wrote to all my MSPs including him. Got a “standard” response he sent to everyone (standard so I have no hesitation in quoting it).
“The meaning of the term “gender” in Section 9 is as a synonym for “sex” “…… so I refuse to change it.
Used to vote Green a lot and had respect for Alison Johnstone and AW. Not doing it again.
@ ‘Col.Blimp IV says:
10 December, 2020 at 7:42 pm
Daisy Walker
Are the polis not heavily into blindly enforcing acceptance of every conceivable aspect “inclusiveness” as defined by the crew who have replaced the church as our new moral guardians.’
They certainly appear to be down in Englandshire. Certain SOPs (Standard Operating Procedure docs) within Police Scotland would appear to have been heavily influenced, if not completely written by Stonewall, and sex as a protected characteristic seems to have been removed in the last 5 years from internal legislative guidance.
There has certainly been a big input at Police College/Government level from Woke Type Lobby groups – to the detriment of well written, practical and enforceable laws. It has not quite reached Beat Cop level, but its getting there.
The Policing of hurt feelings, as apposed to the Policing of broken laws.
The Stonewall doc – from memory, as Police Scotland prevents these things being printed off – had ‘helpful’ guidance with regards appropriate use of words and phrases.
Gay is acceptable, Biological sex is not – as it could lead to ‘dead naming’.
The word Homosexual is frowned upon, because in years gone by the term was used in a discriminatory manner.
The word Lesbian is fine – because gay women NEVER suffer from discrimination.
The document sits, unread for the most party by operational Police Officers – who, once made aware of the contradictory nature of the ‘campaign’ quietly have their own opinions – not too far away from those expressed on this site – for some reason.
I cannot remember exactly when procedures changed – a few years ago, but it became standard to offer any victim of a sexual offence the opportunity to report the matter to an officer of the ‘sex’ of their choosing. I’m not certain if the word ‘sex’ or ‘gender’ was used – however it was interpreted to mean sex at the time. Just another reason why today’s vote was extremely important.
Thanks for the replies, as well, though it kind of suggest I’ve not been paying attention. Oops. Though I’d like to bring “Gender Equality: Dimensions of Women’s Equal Citizenship by Linda C. McClain and Joanna L. Grossman, eds.”, to the attention of SAS.
link to link.springer.com
My Green list MSP just lost my 2nd vote.
It’ll be going to the ISP instead.
The trans social media is aflame. They are disgusted, hurt shocked and ashamed and all in the space of 10 seconds.
Make no mistake. This has hurt them badly because they expected the SNP to support them regardless. They are digging out passports and joining other political parties as I write.
There are tears aplenty and horror at this latest setback in favour of the bigots. That’s us apparently. It seems we are doing something right.
Well done, Rev. I have no doubt that your campaign, and the rest of the bloggers, saw off this nonsense. I received a wee poster a few days ago, in answer, I think to my email, from my sitting MSP (SNP) and I interpreted it to mean that he would be on-side. In the event, he was. He’s a very decent sort.
Jeannie McCrimmon: you’re right to a fair extent, but there are exceptions and each case that seeks to invade the protections for women under the 2010 Equality Act needs to be assessed on its own merits. We have to fight every step of the way. I think that we need to challenge the whole trans ideology structure as being completely irreconcilable with women’s rights, and that will mean challenging the whole ‘a trans woman is a woman’ lie. I don’t care how many psychiatrists and psychologists say it is a recognized condition, it cannot be proved to be real in the sense that trans women really are biological women, and many professionals do not give any credence to the ‘in the wrong body’ theory. You’d actually think that all this stuff had been proved without a shadow of a doubt, but how can you prove that a feeling or an idea in someone’s head is reality or that a feeling is strong enough to warrant changes in existing legislation that protects women and leaves them wide open to abuse? This whole ideology is so close to the kind of ‘gaslighting’ so beloved of those who perpetrate domestic violence that it should be questioned rigourously.
All of this could be settled in a moment if the trans lobby would butt out of women’s spaces and campaign for trans spaces. This is nothing like the gay campaign for rights because gay people did not have rights in their own name, trans people do already. They want to redefine what a woman is and claim women’s rights and spaces for themselves, on top of those they already have. The massive discrepancy between the people who represent many organizations in Scotland and their clientele and the general public needs to be addressed because these people will continue to allow men like the man who is running a rape crisis centre to gain access to women’s spaces. I don’t believe for one second that they didn’t know he was a trans woman. Did they bother to ask the women in there? I bet they didn’t.
-Bob Mack-
Perhaps they would like to go to one of the other countries in the world where LGBT people are treated more inclusively than Scotland?
Like, er…
Pathetic narcissists.
And there I was considering giving the Greens my list vote….
BTW Well done WoS. This wouldn’t have happened without you.
A good result considering the circumstances. It’s not that long since rape victims had no choice who examined them – most forensic police doctors were male until fairly recently – and of course victim’s wishes must be paramount. This is a “no brainer’.
But, it raises an interesting question. What about other medical procedures?
At some point fairly soon, Stuart will be called for his routine bowel examination and colonoscopy. Should he have the choice to decide what sex/gender the proctologist performs the procedure? Does the thought of a transgender dentist examining your gums fill you with dread? Should you be told in advance?
Should everyone disclose their sex or preferred gender – or any other sexual (if it is that) deviation from “normal” (define that)?
I remember two “uncles” from Glasgow in the mid 1960s – they were probably in their fifties but that seemed really old to me then. The shared a flat together in the west end and visited Fife every month – the older man was related to the family. When they died in the early 90s – CO poisoning from a faulty boiler – and the flat was cleared, there was quite a collection of women clothing. I didn’t even know they were gay.
I thought it quaint and lovely- had no problems whatsoever. But I’m not sure how the family would have reacted if one of them came through as “aunty” one afternoon. That really tests ‘tolerance’ – as we are all different. But they never did – and I’m not that sure they would have wanted to anyway. I guess that generation preferred some privacy.
So, do we abolish it altogether?
@Andy Ellis at 8.35 pm
Ooooft, Andy Ellis. What an absolutely belter of a post, lol.
@ Lorna Campbell: you are right. This victory is a first one – there are hundreds more needed including repealing the original Act that says certificated “women” are women.
But the only way to ensure the rights of the female sex is to remove the clique currently in control of the SNP. They are clinging on like limpets and are supported by a large number of brainwashed members who think the polls are high because of Our Glorious Leader.
@Mark Russell,
Short answer No. There are genuine reasons for some folk to be trans, and many often endure all the pain physically and mentally that goes with transition. I support them in that journey.
What we can’t have though is using transitioning simply as a badge of convenience, especially when no actual transition is ever planned. For these guys it is a game and a power play.
They want to do it because they can. They tell you they want to be women yet nearly every one I have seen on social media displays contempt for females outwith their very narrow definition of what a female is.
Christine Grahame abstained.
Just had a reply from Mike Rumbles on why he voted the amendment down. Apparently he listened carefully to the debate and still does not understand why the amendment was laid down in the first place as the cabinet secretary made it clear that the the amendment did not change the law and had no effect. I have no words.
Tricia young @9:57pm. Mealymouthed is what he is. Well know sex and gender are not interchangeable, though genderists ARE trying to blur the distinction for their own agenda.
CameronB Brodie said:
“I think the Greens have just written their obituary”
I agree mate, but the worrying thing is that the SNP probably would have pushed this through had they not been feeling under pressure from the Alex Salmond fallout and the increasing unease about the Murrells, that Nicola will be all to well aware of.
The Murrells have really messed up and in spite of what Nicola seems to think, the bad feeling towards the pair of them will not go away.
The next battle has started.
Forwomen.scot’s court case is about the definition of “woman” – the law in question is the Gender Representation on Public Boards [Scotland] Act. The case is against the Scottish Government.
The crowdfunder target is £80,000 – 5 days to go and reached £67,620. See crowdjustice.com “Stop the Scottish Government redefining “woman” to include men”.
Sarah @ 9.44pm
So true. Women are women as a biological fact and for no other reason. We need rid of this infestation, starting with the Murrells then working the way down through their acolytes.
We need an SNP as it was in the days of Salmond – focused on the goal – independence. To quote Billy Connolly independence is as welcome to Sturgeon as a fart in a spacesuit.
Final roundup.
Reply from P. Harvie laying out his reasons.
Reply from Johann.
Reply from Pauline McNeill.
Automated reply from A Sarwar and wee Annie.
No reply at all James Kelley, Tomkins and SNP Bill Kidd.
Nor from my SNP MP, to whom I sent a note.
I know Bill Kidd, I know his office staff. Maybe because I’m an ex, they’ve rubber-eared me.
Bob Mack said:
“They are digging out passports and joining other political parties as I write.”
Now that is fantastic news, hope the Take SAS Fiona Robertson, Daddy Bear, and the like with them!
In the National
Christine Grahame SNP abstained.
@Patrick Roden
Fiona Robertson was retweeting TRAs calling women ‘nazis’ earlier, so the sooner she departs the better.
Rape Crisis Scotland saying on twitter they are delighted that the bill passed. How’s that for hypocrisy? They are also taking a break from social media for a while. Hope its a long while.
Patrick Roden
I reckon the damage that has so far been done to the interests of women’s rights in Scotland, is more than a crying shame.
[…] The list below is a much, much shorter one than we were expecting to run. In the end, just nine MSPs voted today against Johann Lamont’s amendment on forensic medical examinations, with one abstention. The amendment passed by a margin of 104 votes after SNP MSPs voted in favour, with only the Greens and Lib Dems […] Source link […]
@ Daisy Walker at 7:13 pm
Is John Finnie not a retired cop?
Yes and Ruth MacGuire’s father
From the Official Report , re Johann Lamont’s amendment ,
I see that Nicola Sturgeon didn’t vote ? .
The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 28 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. Members may cast their votes now. It will be a one-minute division. The vote is now closed. If any members had any difficulty, I ask them to please let me know.
For
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Ballantyne, Michelle (South Scotland) (Ind)
Beamish, Claudia (South Scotland) (Lab)
Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP)
Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab)
Bowman, Bill (North East Scotland) (Con)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Cameron, Donald (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Campbell, Aileen (Clydesdale) (SNP)
Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Chapman, Peter (North East Scotland) (Con)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Corry, Maurice (West Scotland) (Con)
Crawford, Bruce (Stirling) (SNP)
Cunningham, Roseanna (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
Davidson, Ruth (Edinburgh Central) (Con)
Denham, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)
Fabiani, Linda (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Fee, Mary (West Scotland) (Lab)
Findlay, Neil (Lothian) (Lab)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Freeman, Jeane (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP)
Golden, Maurice (West Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Gray, Iain (East Lothian) (Lab)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Harris, Alison (Central Scotland) (Con)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Kelly, James (Glasgow) (Lab)
Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
Lamont, Johann (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lindhurst, Gordon (Lothian) (Con)
Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP)
Lockhart, Dean (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Lyle, Richard (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
MacDonald, Angus (Falkirk East) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
Macdonald, Lewis (North East Scotland) (Lab)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Marra, Jenny (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
Mason, Tom (North East Scotland) (Con)
Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP)
McAlpine, Joan (South Scotland) (SNP)
McDonald, Mark (Aberdeen Donside) (Ind)
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Mitchell, Margaret (Central Scotland) (Con)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
Neil, Alex (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Ross, Gail (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Russell, Michael (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab)
Scott, John (Ayr) (Con)
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Smith, Elaine (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Stewart (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Stewart, David (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Tomkins, Adam (Glasgow) (Con)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Watt, Maureen (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
Wheelhouse, Paul (South Scotland) (SNP)
White, Sandra (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)
Against
Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
Finnie, John (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Rumbles, Mike (North East Scotland) (LD)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green)
Wightman, Andy (Lothian) (Green)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)
Abstentions
Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP)
The Presiding Officer:
The result of the division is: For 113, Against 9, Abstentions 1.
Amendment 28 agreed to
I hope the voting of msp’s in this motion are well remembered – the greens and fibdems are toast everyone needs to know how they voted on this. Cannot understand why anyone could vote against this motion.
I emailed all the MSPs in my region before the vote including Ross Greer. So it seemed only right to send him a follow up.
I was appalled to see the Green party voting as a bloc to deny rape victims the right to have a member of the same sex carry out a medical exam following their rape. I once thought the Greens were a party of progressive beliefs and even considered joining you after the 2014 independence referendum. Now I will make it my business to inform everyone I know about your unbelievably callous attitude to rape victims. I am sure they will agree with me that the Greens have made themselves unelectable. I hope you will no longer be an MSP come next year.
Whew!
Science breathes a sigh of relief!
Seems Jack Dèeth is no happy. Shame that,I hear Australia is nice at this time of year.
SAS is part of Sturgeon’s inner hole,,, sorry, I mean her “inner circle”. (Nudge nudge).
And Daddy Bear is part of Peter Murrell’s inner hole,,,sorry, his “inner circle” (Nudge nudge).
AKA, “The Bute House free for all”.
Scottish Independence, what Scottish Independence???
The Murrell’s are too busy with “other things”.
Good. Strange days though; “I agree with Johann Lamont”. Well done her for picking up on the issue.
I’m not ideologically hostile towards the Greens, as I’m trained to support the development of sustainable communities. But you’re not going to achieve sustainable patterns of living by undermining bio-law. So here’s a look at “A Biological Theory of Law: Natural Law Theory Revisited”, as there is always hope.
link to papers.ssrn.com
“Our brain is a fractal structure that can grow thanks to some genes that contain a code, a formula that generates this structure. Complex structures of morality and law mirror the properties of small particles like genes, and we justify the law in the context of reproduction. What we value as good enhances the reproduction of our genes. Therefore, biological mechanisms determine what we consider right and wrong and this new insight will eventually cause a paradigmatic shift in our vision on the foundations of law.
The basis of evolutionary sociology is that our brain will prompt behavior that is to the benefit of the spreading of our genes. Although people are unaware of it, they generally behave in ways that optimize the reproduction of their genes. Because they need resources from their environment (in the broadest sense of the word), they will show behavior that is conducive to procuring or securing as many resources as possible.
To accomplish this mission, people, being social animals, work together. The older parts of our brain (older in an evolutionary sense) make cooperation possible by means of emotion. The younger parts make it possible to formulate rules that reflect these emotions. In other words, these rules derive from factual, biological mechanisms. People experience these rules as “normative,” and as “ethical,” but even so, these rules are products of evolution.
We, that is our brains, formulate them because they help our genes to spread. This, in a nutshell, is the biological theory of law as described in this book. Although philosophers of law and even sociobiologists are reluctant to concur that norms can be justified by biological mechanisms, this is what it takes to make a major step forward in the integration of biology, psychology, sociology, anthropology, and law. “
What are Greens for? What do they add to any discussion? I watched Joanne Lamont give her speech. It was incredibly touching.
That’s to the Rev for “banging on” about this and bringing it out into the open and thanks to Denise Findlay on twitter who did a Sterling job of educating the twitterati about what was going on!
Maybe we will get there in the end. People power is a wonderful thing!
Rape Crisis Scotland are closing their social media because they are being absolutely slaughtered on Twitter predominantly by women. I think they will have to regroup.
It’s fairly evident they did not expect this level of backlash against their submission to MSPs this morning.
David Clegg,,,of the VOW,,,on Sky News critisising Boris Johnson and a No Deal Brexit.
I wonder who was the prick who pushed for Scotland to remain in the UK???
Fanny!!!
i don’t have a vote in Scotland. I did support Andy W’s appeal, and I’ve appreciated his work, like writing ‘Who Owns Scotland’.
But a few lines from a song come into my head…
‘But there’s only a few who know
How far you have to go
til you turn around and find there’s only you’.
I’m annoyed at not knowing the song.
Alan Reid ex LibDem MP’s literature went straight in the shredder today. I hope it’s symbolic of his party’s chances in Holyrood in May. Scotland doesn’t need his type in any position to make decisions. Abstained on the Austerity vote and voted for the bedroom tax in Westminster.
He lost his seat to the SNP in the 2015 general election and unsuccessfully stood in the 2017 and 2019 GE’s
He’s now decided to have another go at getting on to the gravy train by getting into the Scottish Parliament!
After today’s vote I would say it’s is a disgrace if there any LibDems in our Parliament. As for the greens!? Any thought of them getting my second vote has gone out the window and won’t be allowed back in.
O\t,
Richard Murphy our financial guru just tweeted.
” it’s time to get technical____were fucked”
From Gregor Murray to Shirley-Anne Somerville:
“You’re sending out one clear message – and that’s trans people don’t matter, and that you’ll roll over to the bigots. You’ve already done it with the GRA, and now this. What next?
I don’t feel safe in this country.”
Allowing rape victims to choose the sex of their examiner makes Gregor feel unsafe. These people are beyond parody.
Surely Rape Crisis Scotland need to clear out the management/board,
their job is to protect vulnerable women not appease the trans activist,
they need someone in charge who will stand up for woman not throw woman under the bus for fear of upsetting the feelings of the trans lobby.
2,800,000 woman and girls of Scotland dodged a bullet tonight no thanks to these 9 misogynists.
From my info the rebels were
Ruth MacGuire
Annabel Ewing
Kenneth Gibson
Joan MacAlpine
Richard Lyle
They all wrote to constituents saying they would vote for the amendment
I think there needed to be 8 to wipe out the LibDems and the majority so there must have been a few more James Doran and a few others,
NS plus her woke crew had dismissed the needs of women when they initially rejected the amendment in very harsh terms
But
They lost because
The cause was just
the campaign was short but extremely vicious. The words on this blog and on Twitter for any MSP that would betray rape survivors were brutal.
There is an election in a few months
NS power is on the wane and this results weakens her further. She’s totally lost face with her power base, she’s seen them kicked off the NEC and now what is a humiliating backdown and loss of authority. The woke are not taking it well and kicking up sh1t all over Twitter.
She’s exhausted by Covid initially it was a great idea because she could do loads of me me me PR but it’s dragging on and on.
Her enemies are now on the NEC
Her husband is simultaneously lying and throwing her under the bus
Her MSPs are more interested in getting re-elected than doing what she tells them
The Tories are licking their lips over her many breaches of ministerial code, waiting for the right moment to attack
And she knows Alex Salmond will make a move she doesn’t know when or what but she knows it will happen…… in short she’s f*cked
Shocked at the way Andy Wigthman and John Finnie voted. I have voted for John Finnie in the past – never again.
So Denise, would you put your hoose on Nicola being gone by May?
Rev Stuart Campbell ,
Thanks for taking my post @ 10.46 pm out of moderation showing all who voted for / against Johann Lamont’s amendment .
Thanks again .
SOG @ 11.46 pm ,
Could this be the song , In the land of the few by Love Sculpture
link to m.youtube.com
Thanks, MC, I bought that about 1968, lost it long ago. This blog is a valuable resource in unexpected ways.
@James Horace
It feels that things are unraveling for her. It’s weird the polls are great but the in fighting and loss of authority is that off a party that is failing.
I’d say that’s because the party has failed. It has failed to prevent us from being taken out of the EU against our will. It has failed to progress the case for Indy. So it’s as if she has lost an election. In January when Brexit hits and Alex makes his move she may not survive.
So let’s start thinking of who we want as leader in her place.
The Greens really are suffering a profound crises if identity, IMHO, as their position on gender-identity is simply incompatible with either an ecological perspective or the interests of gender equality. So here’s a look at some “IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS – Discriminatory Laws Undermining Women’s Rights”. As there is always hope when dealing with reasonable individuals.
link to europarl.europa.eu
“This paper provides insight into the current situation and recent trends in the abolition or reform of discriminatory laws undermining women’s rights in countries outside the European Union (EU). The paper aims to provide a nuanced understanding of processes through which legal reforms take place.
Among the factors that have proven to facilitate legal reform are the ratification of international human rights treaties, feminist activism, legal and public advocacy by women’s rights and other human rights non-governmental organisations (NGOs), political dialogue, and increased women’s representation in decision-making processes.
Incremental steps supported by the EU towards the abolition of discriminatory laws across all legal categories, EU engagement with a broad range of stakeholders at both national and local levels, programmes supporting the gathering of gender-disaggregated data across all sectors and the publicising of data to draw attention to gender inequality in law and practice, among others, can all contribute towards successful reform of discriminatory laws.
Striking the right balance between funding programmes that mainstream gender and funding dedicated to gender=targeted programmes, together with the increased use of country gender profiles, are essential in order to achieve quality legal reforms.”
SOG @ 12.33 am ,
I should have added in this website where you can enter “ words “ in a song and it will show you songs containing the words .
link to songsear.ch
It’s a useful site when our memories are not as good as they used to be in our teenage years , LOL .
Well It never happened ,nothing of interest happened in Holyrood today well according to the comments on Gingerbread it was a dull day, oh and some SNP husband guy had a app on his phone he never accessed and Ruthie got a tanking I wonder what frame of mind some of these folk are in with the permanent rose tinted spex attached to their nuts .
Sometimes it’s not what people say that reveals a lot about them, it’s certain things they avoid saying , like amnesia from everyone on a particular blog site , pretty telling for future reference
Who would have thought Mr Wightman would spend his time in Parliament undermining the victims of rape.
One upon a time he wrote books on need for Scottish land reform…..
but that was a long time ago before he joined with others who I thought were primarily meant to care about climate change, land reform and sustainable development on our wee part of the planet (AKA ‘the Greens’) and left to establish a new parallel universe where the Woo Woooooo’s live.
I’m trying to imagine how Black Lives Matter or some similar organisation would react if a white person who pretended to be black was to lie his or her way into a job that concerned racial violence, a job intended and earmarked for a black person…
Sturgeon’s moral compass is obviously broken. What happened to her dedication to the #metoo cause that she so readily refers to when discussing the Salmond scandal?
She’s falling apart.
I notice another 50 Covid-19 deaths were added to the grim record today. As I’ve been saying for weeks, the virus won’t go away as long as schools are open. We are stuck on 30 to 50 deaths per day and have been for months now. That’s a hefty price to pay for keeping schools open (in my opinion) but nobody seems to give a fuck.
I see they are sending quantities of the vaccine to regions have more or less escaped the pandemic, like the Western Isles. More blundering. It should obviously be sent to the areas that are getting hit hardest, where it can do most good.
Good spot MaggieC says: 12.30 am
Always liked dave edmunds, I wonder if the leadership are aware of ‘I hear you knocking (but you can’t get in)’?
Any way the land of the few is an appealling ,gentle anthem:
Tell me again what you told me before
There were so many things I’m not really sure
See what I mean, I’ll forget all I know
Are you trying to tell me I’ll have to go
Oh, do I have to go
Do I have to go
I can laugh, I can cry
And they’ll never ask me why
In the land of the few
Where they leave me
I can dance, I can sing
And they’ll never say a thing
In the land of the few, they believe me
I can tell by your smile that you’ve something to say
And I won’t hear the words if you turn away
Speak to me slowly, I’m waiting to know
Have they sent you to tell me it’s time to go
Oh, do I have to go
Do I have to go
I can laugh, I can cry
And they’ll never ask me why
In the land of the few
Where they leave me
I can dance, I can sing
And they never say a thing
In the land of the few, they believe me
There are many ways that I could wander
But those that take me far are few
And there’s only a few who know
How far you have to go
‘Til you turn around and find there’s only you
There were times I could be like the people outside
And then there were times when I had to hide
Some of my friends used to help me, I know
But now you’ve decided I’ll have to go
Oh, do I have to go
Do I have to go
I can laugh, I can cry
And they’ll never ask me why
In the land of the few
Where they leave me
I can dance, I can sing
And they never say a thing
In the land of the few, they believe me
I can laugh, I can cry
And they’ll never ask me why
In the land of the few, they believe me
I can dance, I can sing
And they never say a thing
In the land of the few, they believe me
The NEC first and this next cutting off the BeardWoke, soon a new SNP leader, BoJo the Clown and his “Australia style” deal with the EU (aka No Deal Brexshit) looming, and by Christmas we Scots make ourselves the best gift: a Unilateral Declaration of Independence.
The boil is going to pop.
MorvenM @11:54pm. Is that the same ex-SNP man who was vicious on social media, usually against women?
I’ve been having a wee read-up on Brexit and, lo and behold, it’s going to be very bad, with food and medicine shortages. Who saw that coming, eh?
As of 1st January no British people will be allowed into Europe.
In this emergency we cannot afford a weak leader, distracted by personal scandal. We need rid of Sturgeon NOW.
I am actually LIVID that in a crisis of this magnitude our alleged leader is willing to expend so much energy on attending to the hurt feelings of a handful of narcissistic degenerates.
Why the hell did Christine Grahame abstain, a 76 year old woman in a Borders seat? Aye well bloody beyond me.
I did end up emailing my Glasgow list MSPS on 7/12 and I cc’d Johann Lamont in. She sent me a really considered ‘thanks for the support’ email, got one from a Pauline Mcneil staffer, and an out of office from A Wells and zippity do dah from Tomkins, Kelly and Sarwar. Bloody chancers.
I wonder why Nicola Sturgeon neither voted nor abstained. Did she simply not turn up?
I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade and I alongside others are ecstatic at today’s vote and I also endorse thanks to Johann Lamont
But what WE also have to remember is the number of people on here who contacted and emailed their reps of all parties including the SNP , and according to posts upthread and my own experience there has been VERY FEW responses from OUR SNP reps , most have not even received acknowledgements of their email from the SNP reps
Again I am grateful for the outcome but I am absofuckinglutely RAGIN that this shite was even proposed and had to be voted on.
We have the covid virus , we have a lunatic DRAGGING us out of the EU without a fight from our reps , we have the IMB about to castrate Scotland , we have the Salmond stitch up inquiry , we have rising unemployment , we have increased weans and families attending foodbanks , AND YET we have a FM more focused on permitting chicks with dicks to forensically examine traumatised rape victims instead of FIGHTING FOR INDEPENDENCE to rid ourselves of half of these problems
Nicola Sturgeon if you have ANY feeling of love for your country do us all a favour just fuck off and take Peter with you
BTW is SAS takin the proverbial I notice she voted for JL’s amendment
Twathater @3:32am. I received no response from any of my MSPs. Very disappointing.
Hahaha thought I’d have swatch at Jack Deeth’s twitter to get a sense of what the reaction was bloody turns out I’m blocked, jeezo.
It’s hard to imagine a leader of the SNP letting independence supporters and the country down more.
She’s going to limp into May’s election, tainted and weakened, and screw that up too, like everything else.
I am profoundly aware that not voting for the SNP has huge negative implications for us. I just hope Sturgeon and the SNP are too.
But I point blank refuse to vote for them as long as she is leader – and I won’t be corralled with the “who else yae gonny vote for” bullshit.
We can guess where it’s going. The Tories will slaughter her with the help of the MSM during the campaign and the SNP will come out of the election dramatically weakened.
And when that happens, they’ll say it proves the Scottish people don’t want independence.
Can any of us imagine how depressing and bleak the post-covid / post-Brexit landscape is going to look in say 6 months?
-Hatuey-
I am very sorry to say that I agree with all your predictions.
All our defences against WM have been placed on this hero with feet of clay.
What ever has happened to the Green party???
Ah well, no doubt it will be the Mickey Mouse coronavirus daily floor show tomorrow from our wee superstar of the stage Nicola Surgeon.
Don’t know about others but I am heartily sick of the daily performance – and it is a performance, a stage performance.
Yes COVID is important but we have Brexit, a collapsed economy, a government exposed by parliament and by the courts to be rotten to the core, an impending internal Market Bill, and now she and her ministers are hiding from parliament as last night’s near universal support for amendment to her own governments bill showed a level of disapproval unimaginable for any party leader.
She and her husband will be gone very soon. This cannot go on and the dogs in the street know it.
Well
Jeezo, just bloody wish the Sturrells would piss off
”The First Minister said she would leave those decisions to clinicians, despite a recent legal case halting the practice south of the border.
”Ms Sturgeon also refused to say if she thought children under 16 had the legal capacity to agree to such life-changing treatment.
”Puberty blockers are prescribed to some young people experiencing gender dysphoria, the sense that their gender identity does not match their biological sex.”
link to heraldscotland.com
Common sense creeping back ?
The size of the majority was a surprise. Can’t help feeling that WOS had a hand in the change of SNP MSP’s intentions.You alerted me to what was going on and got me off my a*** to write to my mine.
I never got any answers, but the amendment was passed. Very chuffed this morning.
Thanks Rev.!
Absolutely delighted at the result yesterday, but what troubles me is this
Only a few days ago Stu in his piece “The human sacrifices” wrote
“SNP MSPs are currently expected to vote against the amendment, all but ensuring its failure.”
Yet 3 days later every SNP MSP (with 1 abstention) voted for it, so what changed
could it be this
“I’m told by a source within the chamber, incidentally, that the Scottish Government caved after it became apparent that it was facing a rebellion of sufficient size that the amendment was going to pass.”
Whatever it was it didn’t happen to any of the Greens or LibDems.
The point I’m trying to make is the vote in favour of the amendment wasn’t out of conscience, it was political expediency, perhaps not in every case but I would wager in the majority of cases.
So it seems to me women dodges a bullet yesterday, not in any way due to the good conscience and decency of our MSPs but because fortunately political expediency happened to favour their cause this time
Politicians disgust me
Scot Finlayson says:
10 December, 2020 at 11:55 pm
Surely Rape Crisis Scotland need to clear out the management/board, their job is to protect vulnerable women not appease the trans activist….
It’s also NOT their job to perpetuate the smears against Alex Salmond after we was cleared by a jury and the accusations against him revealed as a malicious conspiracy.
I’m going to cut Andy Wightman some slack too. I think he’s big enough to explain himself over this vote, but his stance on Scottish Land Ownership and his courage in standing up to the Huntin’ and Shootin’ Brigade’s attitudes towards Scotland’s wildlife marks him out for me as one of the good guys.
In some ways, the Green Party is the best place for him, as a kind of think tank for radical ideas, some of which are radical nonsense, some of which are radical in how far they’d go, some radical because they make us confront issues which we’d rather not, but occasionally, now and then, they spawn good ideas with global ramifications.
That’s arguably the best place for transactivism to reside, given an occasional platform to express themselves, but in a minority party which airs ‘crank’ ideas like flying a political kite, but without the powers to actually implement them unless there is much greater support in the mainstream.
The SNP’s love affair with transactivism is infinitely more damaging. The SNP is acting like an adolescent lunatic fringe party while it’s actually in power, and failing dismally to deliver on the Independence Mandate(s) which it was put in power to deliver.
Frankly, I’m sitting here rubbing my eyes. Less than three weeks left for Scotland’s protection under the European Transition Umbrella, and NOBODY is looking to dispute and halt Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation, there is no imminent dissolution of the Union even being discussed, no entreaties to other Nation’s to raise the profile of our plight, … NOTHING. But we can find the time to vex ourselves about some absurdity of transactivism.
I don’t know about so much time squandered in front of an open goal, but frankly, I’m so angry these days I reckon I could kick the SNP over the crossbar for a Conversion.
IF transactivism was a plot to derail Independence, IF smearing Alex Salmond was a plot to derail us, IF being weak and unprincipled about Europe was a further plot to undermine Independence, IF the abandonment of Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty was deliberate plot to sell Scotland down the river,… then bang, bang, bang, bang. – The SNP under Sturgeon has delivered on all “plots” and Scotland has four holes below the water line:- Scotland is out of Europe, with our sovereign Constitution emasculated, and the tremendous momentum we had in 2014-15 has been dissipated, the best open goal for 300 years of full Scottish Independence secured by Brexit has been utterly squandered for less than nothing.
We are at ground zero for Independence. We are a huge army of foot soldiers who have been disarmed and let down by our own leadership ahead of the fight, and our enemies are poised to walk all over us, but yet our inept feckless General is still in charge.
May you burn in Hell Sturgeon; the same Hell as the “parcel o’ rogues” who sold out Scotland in 1707.
I do think those pushing this ‘trans’ ideology, will find in years to come, that they are on the wrong side of history.
As for the SNP generally, they really need to put a stop to the nonsense, and get a grip on reality.
..oh, and start focussing on INDEPENDENCE, which is, after all, why you were elected.
Well said, Breeks.
Honestly, the greens *should* stick to the environment. That’s their mandate, not this crap.
This is entirely the forte of the Lib Dems. I have no issues with their members voting this way because they’ve largely become the WooWoo party across the UK.
The Greens however have lost their way under Harvie, who hogs the leadership and ideology like a damn Byzantine autokrator.
Eloquent as usual Breeks.
-Robert Louis-
I can guarantee you that if this madness falls from fashion soon- and I do think the tide is beginning to turn- a lot of people who have denounced decent folk as bigots, or look the other way while fanatics inundate decent folk with death threats, will try to pretend that they didn’t support it, or that they “couldn’t have known”.
Well, how the hell do you and I know about it? I’m not letting them off the hook- I’ll never vote for a trans activism supporter.
The SNP have become a flagship Party for Homosexuals, Bi Sexuals, Trans Sexuals and every other kind of Sexual you can think of.
All very well and good.
But the SNP were put on this planet to fight for Scottish Independence, and there in lies the problem.
Because until they get back on track and find their way again, they will not have the backing and support of the massive Yes Movement. And the Indy infighting will continue.
The SNP MPs and MSPs have decided to make a lifetime career off of the backs of our hard work and until they get off their arses and actually fight for Scottish Independence, we are going to be stuck in this rut with these lazy, self serving, careerist bastards.
“BTW is SAS takin the proverbial I notice she voted for JL’s amendment”
I’d say she was looking to Mays election and put her own financial position before her belief Wokoharam NS) @twathater says 11 December, 2020 at 3:36 am
It is either that or she has used the Trans mob to ensure she gets elected previously, which evidence doesn’t support unless she is as good an actor as her boss NS)!
“So let’s start thinking of who we want as leader in her place.”
———————————————————————
Angus Brendan McNeil
Greame 8.22am
So why the fuck is Angus Brendan McNeil not fighting for the leadership of the SNP.
Because, if he hasn’t even got the balls to stand up against that evil little bastard Sturgeon, then he is no good to us as leader of the Indy Movement.
Ronald Fraser says:
11 December, 2020 at 8:37 am
Greame 8.22am
So why the fuck is Angus Brendan McNeil not fighting for the leadership of the SNP.
—————————————————————-
I don’t think anyone is fighting for the leadership at the moment Ronald, I only put his name forward as my preferred choice
Excellent post Breeks , I feel and share your , admirably controlled ( just ) rage . Nicola Sturgeon now has the same effect on me – total aversion to the sight and sound of her – as Margaret Thatcher did . This is not some intimidated mysogynist fear of ” strong women ” – I have the utmost respect for ANYONE willing to stand-up for what they believe in , providing of course the beliefs in question are worthy of respect in the first place, and some of the strongest , most eloquent and articulate voices on here and elsewhere are female – no , my aversion derives from the perception that , like Thatcher , NS has become intoxicated with power , has come to believe in her messianic mission ( Transcult in her case , ” Free Market ” ideology in Thatcher’s ) , is unable , or unwilling , to see the damage she is inflicting on those she purports to serve and , like Thatcher again , may only be halted in her demented trajectory when those in positions of influence are compelled to pull the trigger on her in order to prevent any more damage being done .
I don’t know why anybody bothers with the Greens. They’re a total waste of skin. It was ultimately the Greens who gave us Edinburgh Trams – a billion quids* worth of years of chaos ending up in a Princes St. eyesore, getting you to the airport in the same time as the bus, and causing traffic jams along the way…
“But hey! These are “trams”! They’re so environmental! They’re so cool…”
These fuckwits would vote for Auschwitz if you told them it was a green recycling plant producing soap.
*Next to none of which was even spent in the UK, far less Scotland.
@Rev, nope. I was attempting to paraphrase the judgement. I am critical of Andy Wightman here, that’s all.
Seems to me there are plenty of people in the higher and middle echelons of the SNP who are keen to be done with Sturgeon and Murrell, but they’re all sitting around waiting on each other to take the main initiative. That’s another Sturgeon legacy. She has drained people of their willpower.
Sad fact is that in the real world, the changes we want to see take time. Time we do not have.
It’s very frustrating and leaves you empty with just the odd flicker of flames of hope ,skin go watching ashes in a fireplace.
To bring the embers to life would take a rebellion large enough to remove Murrell\ Sturgeon within the next few weeks and judging by what I read from the majority of SNP MPs and MSPs it seems unlikely.
We are where we are and ultimately it will call on had to keep Indy in the frame until others awake from their self enforced slumber and see exactly where we are. They believe Independence lies just over the next hill.
A hard road lies ahead for us all, but we can keep the dream alive if only on life support for now.
Chlorinated kangaroo anyone.
Obviously these cretins deserve our ire, but what a result overall. A rare strike for common sense. Lamont made a bit of a tit of herself with the “genetically programmed” comment, but knowing people who have worked closely with her I do believe this was a case of saying one thing but meaning another, ie it came out wrong. She’s been excellent on the women’s safety front and really endeared herself personally to me through this. Whether she becomes pro indy or not, I’d like her to have a role in building Scotland post indy. I’m generally in favour of the first govt post indy being one of national unity where cross party views are taken… I think dissenting voices are damn useful when setting up a country. Hers is more and more a voice I think should be listened to.
Right, thats the party back into something close to a state of normality. More work to be done of course; and the gaffer still needs toppled.
If and when she goes, who would everyone like to see as leader?
For me, I would ideally like to see Angus Macneill, but I know with his baggage the chances may be slim. Failing this, I would be perfectly happy with Jo Cherry. She has credibility in spades, has indy and number one priority and may eventually reunite the all parts of the movement.
As Martin says Johann Lamont comes out of this well. She was the Labour MP candidate last year up against the utterly odious sitting SNP MP Stewart McDonald, aye he never came near us but we did get a ‘we know you’ll be voting SNP cos you’re supporters of Independence’, such bloody arrogance.
Johann Lamont appears to have personally chapped as many doors as humanely possible given the brevity of the campaign, she came to us and yes I voted Labour, really wish she had won.
McDonald really is a piece of work, utter chancer, living it large on the backs of those of us who worked tirelessly for Yes in 2014. Aye WTF did he do? Anyone?
Thanks Rev and everyone here for writing to your MSP’s.Ross Greer will be getting ‘telt’ frae me. Something short and sweet along the lines of Susan’s post.
I don’t care about anyone’s sexuality but IMO, it’s becoming obvious that the party leaders in Holyrood only have one eye on the electorate. The other is in thrall to the the highly funded organisation ‘Stonewall’. First you influence politians to pass dodgy legislation and then you get the Polis to enforce it. The HCB being a case in point.
link to faircop.org.uk
You know how the former PM of Australia said
That their EU trade isn’t good, well in English that
means if the UK gets the same deal, it’s a World First,
Oven Ready great deal.
With little impact on the environment shipping Kangaroo meat
12,000 miles we can now buy digeridoos, boomerangs and hats
with dangling corks at a reduced rate.
Get your order in now and beat the Xmas rush!
Feel the same Martin. I think the genetic comment was taken out of context and unfair. If I was in a constituency in May where it was a choice between Lamont and one of the SNP gender cultists I’d vote Lamont every time, and it would break my heart to do it and essentially be voting against independence. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if she changed her tune post Brexit and stood for the ISP? Wishful thinking, but sometimes it’s about all we have left…
The brain may be telling you, helped along by a bit of neural plasticity ‘reprogramming’, that you’re not what your body is visually signalling but redesigning genitalia, the secondary sexual characteristics, does not alter internal organs or skeletal form which remain sex specific.
People who find themselves in denial of their body need the intervention of a psychiatrist not a surgeon or a coterie of politicians. The consequence of indulging this ‘paraphilia’ is societal dysfunction.
Well said Ottomanboi@10:00am. In a nutshell.
From Iain Lawson’s latest post ,
THE ODD COUPLE
“There is a saying in politics “always keep it credible”. It is good advice, stray from it and you open up more and more questions. Worse, even your own supporters find it increasingly difficult to support your version of events and they go quiet, leaving only the skeptical and critical audience in place. “
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
Ottomanboi @10am. Absolutely correct. I find it odd that we indulge and encourage people who believe they were “born in the wrong body” re sex but not re race, age or species. Why is one any less ludicrous than the other?
From my reading the outcomes in terms of improving mental health and reducing suicide are… Underwhelming to put it politely.
Well done Johann Lamont. Argued with real conviction.
The Greens used to get my regional vote at Holyrood elections. No more and I’ll be very vocal about it till next May. Hopefully ISP gain votes from the Green “error” here.
I’ve said as much elsewhere, but I’m of the opinion that Sturgeon’s driving of SNP policy has got sod all to do with Scotland’s future, and everything to do with her post-Holyrood career ambitions.
Perhaps a stint with the UN as Deputy High Commissioner at the OHCHR, with a snazzy apartment in NY next door to Alan Cumming, would be adequate reward for steering all this trans/hate legislation through Holyrood.
A glowing reference from No.10 being the payback for putting the brakes on IndyRef2 and placing the ball firmly in Westminster’s court re. a Section 30 Order plus, as a special Brucy bonus for not rocking the constitutional boat over Brexit, a mention in the Birthday Honours list.
Nothing would shock/surprise me anymore…
Cath @ 9.51am.
An ISP for the second vote makes so much sense. And it could attract some fairly talented folks too not ex members of the SNP. The logic of a list party makes so much sense. Independence is what we want. That is what the people now want and a reinvigorated SNP and an Indy List party could deliver it.
The hand of friendship between us all is what is needed. We have common cause. All those years ago 74% of Scots voted for a devolved Scottish Parliament. We can do that again for an independent Scottish Parliament.
Let us remove those who block our way and let us get on with it.
Re Harassment and Complaints Committee ,
The Committee will next meet on Tuesday 15 December at 10.15am when it will consider its work programme. This meeting will be held in private.
Public papers for this meeting ,
link to parliament.scot
So we can forget about buying in the popcorn for Tuesday .
I agree with many above and that is why I joined the UPS who will get my list vote. We now as a movement have to unite behind those who offer what we want without attaching all sorts of conditions to that aim.
The stables are being cleaned out . At least we can now see the floor.
Voting ISP is not such a risk as some may think. They may have other aims in mind but They were formed for Jndependence.
They are not a rival, but a prop for the ailing SNP, to keep them on track and honest.
Nothing focuses the mind of a politician more than knowing they are not the only game in town.
Correction ISP. Not the postal service.
Yes, they’re bloody fools, but I think (I hope) that
“Every last one of them is a disgusting coward who doesn’t care about the feelings of rape victims and we’re ashamed to share a nationality with them.” goes beyond simple truth into the realm of heady rhetoric. It would be a good thing if there were less heady rhetoric on all sides of this discussion.
This has the potential to lead astray. I could make a similar point about the now routine epithet of ‘science-denying’: there is another scientific fact on almost all birth certificates which is far more often falsified than ‘sex’, and this is usually done for deliberately deceptive reasons.
I see the National has given Andy Whightman a piece on the enviornment today. He shouldn’t be given the time of day after yesterday.
robertknight @ 10.32
“Nothing would shock/surprise me anymore…”
Me neither.
As Scotland has aye found to its cost: fowk cannae ser twa maisters, thay aye luive ane an laithe the ither.
On QT last night the ex PM of Australia said the Australian deal is basically shit and the UK should not aspire to it.
Johnson will end up in charge of LESSER ENGLAND. Time to get the hell out of this bourach.
The new SNP NEC I’m sure understand one thing – the root and branch SNP won’t accept any more kicking the can down the road after May.
Make the preparations now. Be ready.
John Finnie MSP has said; he had sought the views of R*pe Crisis Scotland; he votes for legislation to have practical effect and the amendment had no legal effect. He shares Parliament’s desire to ensure survivors of sexual assault can have forensic medical examiner of their choosing and is pleased that fundamental right already exists and continues regardless of the vote.
Nally Andres at 09:41
Interesting read about Stonewall, never knew anything about that.
Never mind being in the wrong body, I’m struggling with being in the wrong country.
Wonder if I can self identify as Jamaican?
Vote (Case Ref: KS5815)
Inbox
Kevin Stewart MSP
9:38 AM (2 hours ago)
to me
Dear Maureen,
Got a response from my msp today, all the other msps responded before the vote.
Many thanks for your email – I voted for Johann Lamont’s amendment.
I hope this is helpful.
Kind regards,
Kevin
Kevin Stewart MSP
Aberdeen Central
CURRENCY IN AN INDEPENT SCOTLAND.
I’m not trying to be disruptive of this Thread but has anyone read this article from The Holyrood Magazine dated the 5th of December?
I’ve grabbed a random snapshot from Jim Walker’s article. Jim is chief economist at Alethia Capital in Hong Kong,and looks at the currency question for an independent Scotland :-
“..One thing which must not be allowed to stand is the threat made to pensioners during the first independence referendum, i.e. that independence would threaten their existing income.
Pensions are legal contracts between employers/governments and pension recipients. They are not bargaining chips and they cannot be rescinded when it suits the paying partner.
The UK Government, just as it does with citizens who live in Europe or other countries, has to pay its contractual obligations. The same goes for private companies. Those obligations will stretch right up to the date of independence.
Payments to Scottish pensioners who have contributed to National Insurance or company pension schemes would be enforceable in law regardless of the relationship between an independent Scotland and rUK…”
I remember the Tory and Labour Scares directed at pensioners 2014. Which currency?…ad infinitum.
OOPS.link to holyrood.com
Link to Holyrood comment by Jim Walker.
A victory for democracy, reason, common-sense and, above all, decency. Due in no small part to Stuart’s ability to get to the heart of the matter and the standard of debate and discussion here on WoS. Perhaps there is hope after all.
I am one of those who used to vote for the Greens, but never again. I didn’t realise they were such a bunch of Wokey weirdoes until I started reading WoS. As SusanXX mentions above, how can we expect the Greens to provide a solution to the climate crisis when they can’t even grasp basic biology?
And what a laugh I had reading Ronald Fraser’s comment. I think you may be just skimming the surface there Ronald regarding the murky goings-on in Bute House. It wouldn’t surprise me if there is an S&M dungeon hidden in the basement!
Nally Andres @09:41
Thanks for the link – an interesting read.
Stonewall are clever in pushing their agenda in workplaces. Companies don’t want to get called out as that creates all kinds of problems. However they are also complicit, as any employee with enough self-confidence to object to the training or its methods is automatically marked as “not a team player” and that means that they might present problems in other areas too. It’s really a form of entrapment which is why everybody shuts up and endures the process and why Stonewall can simply stomp over everybody. Must be a good earner as well. It’s also in effect a protection racket as it does not take too many dedicated members committed to the cause to shit all over a companies social media presence.
The article ends with the call to object and the final sentence is “They cannot sack us all.” They don’t need to. Just get enough sacked and make it sufficiently visible that it causes others to pause and consider whether they could handle the same fate. It’s quite exquisite in its evil and quite unstoppable if you try to face it head on.
Makes you think about the reluctance from various quarters to raise a stink in advance of yesterday’s vote.
Looking for a legal method to test the constitutional legality of Brexit and the GRA amendments? Well here’s a look at “Proportionality Review in Administrative Law”.
link to law.yale.edu
“At the most basic level, the principle of proportionality captures the commonsensical idea that, when the government acts, the means it chooses should be well adapted to achieve the ends it is pursuing. The proportionality principle is an admonition, as German administrative law scholar Fritz Fleiner famously wrote many decades ago, that “the police should not shoot at sparrows with cannons” (Fleiner 1928, 404). Courts instantiate the principle through a form of review that typically passes a challenged legal measure through a prescribed sequence of increasingly stringent legal tests, in order to determine whether the measure in fact impinges disproportionately on the rights or interests of a party.
The global spread of proportionality is one of the worst-kept secrets in comparative law. As proportionality has become a fixture in numerous national and international legal regimes over the past few decades (Stone Sweet and Mathews 2008), it
has also attracted a substantial amount of scholarly attention, and more than a little criticism.1 But the lion’s share of attention has focused on the use of proportionality in the realm of constitutional law, as a technique for adjudicating constitutional rights claims.
Less has been said about proportionality’s role within administrative law. In fact, proportionality has also come to play a significant role in the administrative law of a large and diverse set of jurisdictions, as a control on administrative discretion.”
link to twitter.com
Jesus H.
Here speaks the imbecile we elected to stop this very thing from happening.
I could fkg weep. USELESS.
Remember, there is no constitutional need for Brexit, only the manufactured psychological need for culture closure, of right wing English nationalism. So here’s a look at “The Principle of Proportionality in the Laws of Europe”. Just to get you ragging. 😉
link to bloomsburyprofessional.com
Finally managed to finish reading all the comments here.
Conclusion: Without WOS we’d probably be where NS has attempted to dump us.
Thank you, Rev Stu for all your dedicated work.
Long may you continue.
Breeks @ 6:55am 11.12.20
Well said!
The sadness over the wasted momentum of 2014-2015, the wasted open goals since the Brexit referendum in 2016, not grasping the the thistle of fundamental constitutional difference between England (+ poor Wales) and Scotland, i.e. sovereignty.
This ‘sovirenty’ so many English Brexiters clamour for is a sham in England (+ poor Wales). In England (+ poor Wales), it’s the Parliament that is sovereign, exercising the monarch’s sovereignty.
In Scotland, as per the Declaration of Arbroath (1320) and a common understanding ever since, it’s the PEOPLE who are sovereign. The monarch, the parliament serve at their pleasure. (My country’s written constitution clearly states in section 2 that sovereignty rests with the people, represented in Parliament.)
These fundamentally differing views on sovereignty are clearly incompatible. As things stand, the English political philosophy is increasingly being imposed on Scotland. Just you wait till full-fat no-deal Brexit hits, it’s bye-bye Scotland’s political philosophy, bye-bye Holyrood as a meaningful political organ.
Meanwhile, Nicola Sturgeon tinkers about collecting woke glitter points from the TRAs and their handmaidens (with a view to her post-Holyrood international career?); tries to stich up a former mentor, now perhaps a potential political rival who might push for independence more than she does, and botches the stich up; is probably secretly glad coronavirus came along, pheew, to help her avoid problems and day-to-day politics and stage a daily Nicola show. Great PR because she is still better than the Bozo south of the border. Look at the polls! Look at the polls!
Never looking at or listening to an ever increasing disgruntlement from the grass roots indy supporters. Allowing her supporters to brand ordinary folk who support independence as bigots, c*nts, “conspiracy theorists”, the list goes on.
A good leader brings differing opinions together for achieving a common goal (see: Salmond, Alex. see: independence.) A bad leader allows factions to grow and fester and takes a side, allies herself with one faction and tries to intimidate and purge dissenters. But having thus become beholden to one faction, has lost wider appeal and must fight a rearguard action.
OK, we’re not quite there yet. The general Scottish public who quite like Nicola, aren’t aware of her shenanigans, or the GRA bill and the HCB and their implications or the redefining of women going on with the Representation in public bodies bill – which For Women Scotland is taking to court. (Please, donate to their crowdfunder!)
Also, late to the party, but I’d like to pay tribute to Johann Lamont. What a woman, what a speech!
She might get it wrong about Scottish independence, her gaffes (“virus”, “not genetically programmed”).
She’s not as attactive and slick and well-spoken as Nicola Sturgeon – it sounds like she’s got a slight speech impediment – but she stood up for all victims of r*pe and sexual assault, spoke for them, made clear why “sex”, not “gender” is important.
Also, batted down idiots like Andy Wightman and Monica Lennon who tried to blame r*pe and sexual assault victims for social media storms.
Johann Lamont made clear it is about the victims of r*pe and sexual assault and their needs and wishes, which a panel at the Scottish Parliament committee had heard. The committee recommended changing “gender” to “sex”, the SNP government didn’t, so Johann Lamont had to lodge her amendment in stage 3.
It seems Lab, Con and enough SNP were for Johann Lamont’s amendment that the SNP government would’ve been defeated, so apparently switched at the last moment, to be on the winning side, also hanging the Greens and LibDems to dry.
I’m glad Johann Lamont’s amendment passed. But it’s just one battle. Plenty more ahead.
Remember, those who voted against Johann Lamont’s amendment think that a r*pe or sexual assault victim does not have the right to request a forensic medical examiner of the sex they (the victim) prefer.
Changing the wording to “sex” (instead of “gender”) seems only to be a problem to TRAs. Because they seem to want “gender” to replace “sex” in all legislation, thereby rendering all legal protections for women null, nonexistant. Opening the way to any man to colonise women’s spaces, appropriate women’s culture.
Wokies are generally against colonialism and cultural appropriation. But
“Hey, you can’t…”
“It’s OK, I’m trans.”
“Oh. OK.” (Is this really OK? I don’t think so. Maybe I’m a bigot, but… It just doesn’t seem right. But I will be vilified, piled on on soicial media, doxxed, maybe lose my job and future job prospects…) “Yes, sir, I mean ma’am.”
[…] The list below is a much, much shorter one than we were expecting to run. In the end, just nine MSPs voted today against Johann Lamont’s amendment on forensic medical examinations, with one abstention. The amendment passed by a margin of 104 votes after SNP MSPs voted in favour, with only the Greens and Lib Dems […] Source link […]
Mark Russell: I agree that we should be avoiding the demonising of trans people. They have always been around, and, as you say, previous generations were more concerned with privacy and not hanging out the washing for all to see. It is perfectly feasible to protect both their human rights and women’s human rights, but they must come out as trans women (and men) instead of playing the parasite, because that is what much of their behaviour amounts to – a parasitical takeover of the rights of others – unknown before in human rights.
However, I listened to a psychiatrist explain that there are essentially, two types of trans (women) – the ones who genuinely feel they do not fit their natal skin (and they are very often the ones who do not make a big deal out of being trans, who transition fully and who are supportive of natal women) and those who are exhibitionist, narcissistic, and loud and pushy – and they are encouraged by the vociferous, vicious and often, misogynistic trans lobby.
It seems that Equality Network is now to intervene in the court case against the Scottish government by For Women Scotland because several trans women wish to be on boards as ‘women’ – with Scottish government funding when the former had to crowdfund. Anyone with even two tiny brain cells to spark off each other would have known that this would happen – that many of the trans women would demand access to everything and everywhere that women have, and access.
Men – sorry chaps, I know you are not all in that category by a long chalk – do tend to want to be in charge, and a small minority are control freaks to a lesser or greater extent, so, basically, trans women will reflect the male population out there. To even think for a moment that they would not demand access to every conceivable space that women occupy is to be naive to the highest degree, and many of the female sweet young things who support them are utterly blind to their own destruction.
There is no way except to fight every inch of the way, but this whole trans stuff is much bigger than Scotland, or the UK – it is in the whole of the West – and it was in the 2004 GRA that the first mistakes were made by not making a parallel law to protect natal women. Then, the Equality Act 2010 did not make women’s sex-based rights and spaces unassailable, although it does allow for trans women to kept out of female spaces, so we should be fighting to strengthen it, too. Above all, it is way past the time when we need to start to deconstruct the trans ideology and question how we arrived at the point where trans women can claim they are ‘women’.
They are not women; they know they are not women; and they are ‘gaslighting’. Many of them are men who get their rocks off dressing as women and behaving as they perceive women to behave – as porn sluts and whores, mainly, if their choice of apparel, in many cases, is anything by which to judge. They can’t even behave and act as natal women in all their diversity, but must choose caricatures to act out, like actors on a stage.
They should have the same rights as everyone else – no one is going to say otherwise – but not women’s rights, too. If we don’t fight their ‘I’m a woman in my head’ nonsense, we will lose the war in the longer term, even though we have won some battles. A feeling in someone’s head should never, ever be the basis for law, for law that will affect the lives of millions of women. I believe we have to take this to the highest court – the UN International Court of Justice on that basis: that a feeling in someone’s head should not be allowed to form the rationale for laws that will overturn the very principle of sex-based protections, civil rights and human rights that acknowledge the sex-based oppression of women, in favour of a bunch of spiteful, hateful men who can’t see green cheese but they want it as of right, like self-centred an self-obsessed toddlers.
Lorna Campbell @ 7:35
Amen.
Well said.
How is it that it all now seems to be about men and their feelz… Which are obviously _more important_ than women’s (the biological kind of woman) reasoned arguments, science, common decency, basic humanity.
Nah, none of that matters if men can colonise and appropriate womanhood.
Transwomen who don’t even bother to shave are better at “womaning” than us mere actual women.
Oh, sorry, we’re now “mentruators” or “womb-havers” or whatever, just not “women”, because some TRAs want to be “women”, can’t, so try to redefine what a woman is.
Can you imagine a white person defining to a black person what “blackness” is, and then appropriating that “identity” and going on to enjoy “victimhood” and demanding more and more “human rights”.
The TRA movement (which seems very much like a misogynistic MRA movement) isn’t happy about trans people getting treated same as everybody else. No, they want trans identified men treated better, as special in the alphabet soup LGB + plus many other letters movement. They do “womaning” better than actual women, they rule the roost.
Ordinary trans people aren’t like these narcissistic, potentially violent TRAs, but unfortunately, TRAs give a bad name to all and any trans person. That’s not exactly advancing the acceptance of trans people in society.
Are you surprised at some of the names on list?
@ Jack @ 10:13pm 11.12.2020
Not surprised at all. The Greens and the LibDems are fully captured. They put men’s feelz above women’s lived experience and pain and hurt and trauma.
The SNP were going to do it as well, until they got wise that enough of their MSPs were going to rebel and help carry Johann Lamont’s six word amendment. Keen to be on the winning side, the SNP sheep MSP were whipped to support the Johann Lamont amendment. To make the SNP look better.
It seems only about a dozen SNP MSPs were conviction politicians about this, genuinely supporting the Lamont amendment, the rest…
The party leadership scrambled and whipped the rest to be on the winning side at the last moment. So as not to look bad to the general public.
It sickens me that a political party plays such games with raped women.
It sickens me even more that TRAs bemoan the Lamont amendment, feelz “not safe”, when the focus of the legislation is on the victim, not on the forensic examiner, who might be trans.
Or simply, TRAs feel “unsafe” if not everything is centering on them, agreeing with their ideology. If they don’t get all their demands, they’re “oppressed”. Because not getting everything they want, even at the expence of women’s rights, is transphobic, so there.
Jeez, how did we get here?!
Good article and great result. Things do seem changing for the better as far as some of the worst trans madness goes.
‘I wouldn’t bet a lot on it, but I think if either inquiry found she broke the code she’d prefer to resign with some shred of dignity rather than be dragged out kicking and screaming by a VoNC.’
About that I’m not so sure. She has been visibly falling apart for a good few months now as the debits mount up but she’s still intent on hanging on and can rally at times to look and sound almost like her old self. My feeling is that should results of inquiry/ies find against her before she has a chosen successor in place she will indeed fight tooth and nail to stay in place hoping she can rally people to vote against any no confidence motion and carry on. I don’t get the feeling she’ll go easily. My guess is she dislikes more the idea of leaving the party in the hands of internal opponents than hanging on to her dignity. Everyone has always talked about her being a conviction politician and they can be the worst at sticking to things to the bitter end.
Lumilumi, please don’t use the teenage yank truncation abomination ‘feelz.’ It’s horrible language mutilation. Thanks.
Chuckling.
Andy Wightman has resigned from the Greens, says it’s because “the intolerance shown by some party members to an open and mature dialogue about the tensions and conflicts around questions of sex and gender in the context of transgender rights and women’s rights.”
He says he was “minded” to vote for the amendment 28, was told he would then “face complaints and disciplinary action leading to possible suspension, deselection or expulsion”, so he voted against it, but now has had enough…
[…] when the Parliament decided last night, by an overwhelming 113-9 margin, which of the two words it wanted to use, you’d imagine that that’d be no big deal and everyone […]
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