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Wings Over Scotland

Non-trivial pursuits

Posted on December 11, 2020 by

It’s weird. Less than 24 hours ago, we were being firmly told that a vote in the Scottish Parliament was an insignificant, indeed “meaningless”, choice between two words that meant exactly the same thing and were “interchangeable”.

So when the Parliament decided last night, by an overwhelming 113-9 margin, which of the two words it wanted to use, you’d imagine that that’d be no big deal and everyone would shrug it off in a casual, indifferent sort of way, right?

Yeah, not so much.

You heard it here first, readers – letting women who’ve just been raped ask to have a female medical examiner is a step taken “purely to terrorise trans people”.

No other reason. Purely that. The only reason a rape victim might want to be examined by a woman is to “terrorise” trans people. Everything anyone anywhere ever does, for any reason, in any field, must always be about trans people.

An SNP MP, meanwhile, called a democratic vote which not a single member of her own party opposed a “debacle”.

And suggested that a near-unanimous choice of the Parliament for one word over another word meant the SNP had lost its way and needed to get “back on course”.

Grown adult men claimed that Parliament choosing one of two words with supposedly identical meanings rather than the other one made them feel “unsafe” to the point that they might have to flee the country.

While another lunatic demanded to be killed because rape victims might get to ask for a female medical examiner.

But this effort from a Scotsman columnist was a leap of truly Olympic proportions.

Try as we might, we cannot see the tiniest logical connection between “rape victims should be able to request a female medical examiner” and a restriction of abortion rights. (If anything the opposite is true – even countries where abortion is illegal nearly all make an exception if a woman has been impregnated by rape.)

It’s a completely deranged, irrational thing to say. The only possible basis for drawing a parallel between the two things is this:

Events of the last couple of weeks have shown that there might just be some small measure of sanity and proportion creeping back into Scottish politics. We can only hope it continues. But there’s no room for complacency – the SNP only whipped its MSPs to support last night’s amendment when it became clear that enough of them were going to rebel to inflict an embarrassing defeat. There was no sudden dawning of enlightenment, just an attempt to avoid a political humiliation.

So rest assured, readers: we will remain alert.

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    1. 19 12 20 19:14

      Non-trivial pursuits –

    88 to “Non-trivial pursuits”

    1. Morgatron says:

      Magic Stu, I can hear their gnashing of teeth.

    2. Graeme says:

      So sad it ruined Laurens day and she was so happy 🙁

    3. Kenny says:

      Deeth: “this action tonight has cost my @SNP membership”

      Everybody: “IS THAT A FCKING PROMISE?”

    4. Denise says:

      It is very clear that the trans-extremists wish to eradicate women’s sex based rights.
      When you ask ‘what rights don’t trans people have’ the answer is women’s sex based rights and they want them.

      The find the words ‘sex’ and ‘female’ transphobic

      The SNP appease the trans lobby and they’ve sent SAS and Humza out to try more appeasement. The government are totally captured by the lobby and when they have to vote in support of women because the general public won’t wear anything else the trans extremists go nuts.
      But make no mistake Nicola Sturgeon’s government is anti-women, maybe it’s because that’s where she built her power base or maybe she is looking at a job in a trans captured agency
      We will have to fight to retain women’s rights as many brave women and men have fought before us we can’t betray future generations of women it’s a fight we must win.

      I’ll be a lot happier when NS is no longer leader

    5. N. Holmes says:

      The scale of delusion, victim mentality and self righteousness is off the scale with trans rights activists. How did they become so brainwashed and immersed in groupthink, how did they give up all their critical thinking for this nonsense?

    6. Garavelli Princip says:

      It’s a great result for women. And it looks like a whole load of monomaniacal nutters will be resigning from the SNP.

      Kinda tells you why the joined the party of government in the first place – and also why being the party of government over a long period is such a dangerous position for a party that has ONLY ONE PURPOSE.

      And that purpose is NOT to better run a UK branch office parliament on behalf of the Brits.

      We can now get back to fulfilling the ONLY role and purpose that the SNP exists for.


    7. “They only did it to frighten trans people!”

      FFS what a bunch of absolute wallopers.

      This one escapes me though – “dropped the dog whistle”… WTF does that mean? It’s like an entirely new species with its own language.

    8. Ally says:

      So if it wasn’t such a big deal why didn’t they include the term sex when it was specifically asked for by the women that use the service. That sounds like it was completely the opposite that rather than trying to “other” trans people, the TRAs in SG were trying to shoehorn in references to Gender rather than sex.

    9. Craig says:

      This hysteria is really wearing thin, they really are doing their level best to really make people really fucked off and incite the anger towards the “trans” community for their disgraceful behavior.

    10. Baronesssamedi says:

      Everybody – just grow up.

    11. Corrado Mella says:

      Narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths always assign the blame on others.
      They’re always right.
      And righteous.
      And their battles are for liberty.

      Blissfully unaware that any battle that you engage in for your betterment must never be to the detriment of others, or it will only be a power shift, not a power gain.
      Without power gain there is no progress, only an internecine war that weakens the collectivity and is consequently regressive.

      The stats say unequivocally that the %age of people with narcissistic disorders in the LGBT+ community is thrice the global average (not accounting that, because of their statistical weight, they contribute significantly to the latter).

      Focus on the “me, me, me” folks, and you’ll see the narcissism veins running under the (lip)gloss veneer.

    12. Astonished says:

      Firstly – Are you unaware that TRANS folk, by dint of them being the most oppressed folk ever, CAN USE ANY WORD THEY LIKE AND BECAUSE THEY’RE TRANS, OR TRANS-SUPPORTING, THAT WORD CAN MEAN ANYTHING THEY LIKE. 🙂

      Well done on this.

      Kirsty Blackman and Stewart McDonald need to be disciplined by the party and PDQ.

    13. Anne says:

      Thanks for all your work Stu – a great result- and please do stay vigilant.

    14. Well done to the Rev for highlighting this utter insanity that’s being swept out of the SNP at last. It gives the MSM one less stick to beat them with in the run-up to next May.

      Newspaper editors throughout Scotland are probably weeping and wailing at all the pre-written copy they’ll now have to pulp.

    15. David McPherson says:

      deeth ……beat it ya rocket.

    16. Bob Mack says:

      They are sick because it’s all about filtering out the meaning of gender and sex in law. Once you have these things diluted in Statute then the next one becomes easier to pass.

      It is a setback for them as you see above from the comments from the likes of Kirsty Blackman and Fiona Robertson who is not shown.regardless if some claim it means nothing in law.

    17. robertknight says:

      Laid bare for all to see…

      “In 2014 the prospect of an independent Scotland filled me with such excitement, what an amazing opportunity, we can create a new state and enshrine our values in a written constitution”.


      Scotland is NOT a playground for those who want to turn an entire society on its head under the guise of supporting those few unfortunate individuals suffering from a genuine medical condition, (gender dysphoria), the human rights and rights to NHS treatment for those individuals having such a condition being already protected in law.

      So long as the SNP support those seeking to turn Scotland into a kind of trans-utopia they’ll get neither my support nor my vote, and if Indy has to wait for common sense to prevail, so be it.

    18. McHaggis69 says:

      A bunch of fucking lunatics.
      The lot of them.

      The hyperbole is incredible.

    19. Malcolm John says:

      ‘Demanded to be killed’ cracked me up. That’s two good news articles you’ve been able to write now.

    20. Patsy Millar says:

      Can’t believe I’m now looking on Johann Lamont as a heroine (and I’m delberately not saying hero!) but her speech was inspiring. Some of the rhetoric in the above tweets is beyond belief. How safeguarding women who have been raped can be seen as a form of hatred is just downright weird.

    21. ronnie anderson says:

      That Worthlesscoward tweet is ah dozy they are the coward they didn’t give their address im sure some nutter out there would accomodate them .

      I.ll gird my loins and thank Mrs Lamont this is the second defeat for the SNP in weeks surely these are wake up call & are in need of a clearout of the Transgender lobby ( Wokists ) & those SNP MSPs & MPs who support them – Alyn Smith ect ect ect .

    22. Bob Mack says:

      You can see from the above posts why they are so problematic.

      They inhabit a world of hysteria and high anxiety and that is played out in any area in which they participate. Over reaction and self pity are the norm.

      They really do need help

    23. Ronald Fraser says:

      I blame councils for the emergence this mob.

      If they had kept public parks opened, then it would have stopped bored wee brothers going through their big sister’s wardrobe trying on her dresses.

    24. Dan Watt says:

      One tiny victory at a time is how the war against the woke will be won. Reason must prevail.

    25. Luigi says:

      The sad part is that in all this victimhood fury and venom on display here, did anyone take a few minutes out just to sit down and think it through? Did the rights of raped women even cross the mind?

      It seems to be all about them and that the affected women were barely considered, which is appalling. Do these people not have mothers, sisters, daughters?

    26. Daisy Walker says:

      For the victim of a rape, on contacting the Police, a SOLO trained officer will be called to attend – these are Sex Offence Liaison Officers and have received specialist training – over and above their normal duties. There are not a lot of them, and there is a rota, at any given time, providing 24/7 cover.

      Given the rural nature of much of the Policing in Scotland – Sometimes they will be travelling from as far away as 30 – 40 miles.

      On attending, they will note an extremely detailed statement from the complainer. It HAS to be as detailed as possible at this time, while memories, and the potential to gather evidence is at maximum. It is also a kindness – the more detail obtained at this stage, the less need there is to return to the victim in the days and weeks to come – to re-open the wound.

      If done, correctly, and professionally, the very act of taking this statement, in all its exactitude and detail – can, in and of itself become step one of the recovery process.

      And the reason I say this, is any trauma, puts the person into fight or flight response – one part of the physical response in this state – is that the brain does not do any short term / long term memory filing. It puts its energy to the big muscles, not the brain. Which is why a traumatised person is so befuddled in the minutes and hours (sometimes days) after.

      So, the Active Listening part, and precognition style detailed statement taken, by the Police at this time, can be, even though undoubtedly difficult – a positive part of the process, and enable the victim to ‘gather their thoughts into some sort of order’.

      And the reason it is worth knowing the above – it will take a MINIMUM of 4 hours to note that statement. It will almost NEVER take less time than that.

      While that is going on, a forensic medical examiner, and an appropriate medical examination location will be arranged. Once again, in the middle of the night, this means call out times, and large distances for folk to attend, but, by the time the Police statement is noted, its usually ready.

      Often the medical examination location is 20 – 30 miles away. another drive for the victim.

      The medical exam itself, will normally take about 1 – 2 hours.

      By which time your rape victim will be ready to sleep for a week. Utterly exhausted, wrung out, in addition to the physical pain suffered from the initial assault.

      It used to be, when it came to drafting, amending or writing new laws, information like the above, from many organisations with experience of such matters was considered and used as a foundation for the changes being proposed.

      The messages you have published above from members of the public, members of parliament, members of the SNP, members of the Trans/Woke movement – demonstrate not a single ounce of common decency, or basic understanding of the nature of the process they are talking about.

      Not a single shred of decency.

      For those in positions of power – to be so staggeringly ignorant – when they have a duty to get informed on this – is beyond the pale.

      Not often I’m lost for words. These messages and this woke agenda – disgraceful and appalling.

    27. BLMac says:

      The SNP were sensible to wise up, even if it was reluctantly. It was a win for democracy.

      The number of votes the SNP were likely to lose if they didn’t support the amendment far exceeded the ones they might lose from the tiny amount of penis women.

      This problem that would not have occurred if the SNP internal business was actually conducted on democratic lines. Too much centralisation allows cliques to seize power.

      Instead of having all women selection or minority lists, why not encourage women (not a minority) or BAME people to participate at local level and leave it to local democracy to endorse candidates?
      If party HQ doesn’t like that, then they misunderstand the purpose of democracy.

      Perhaps the new NEC will put a broom through this lot, but will it simply replace one clique with another?

    28. 1971Thistle says:

      @McHaggis69 @12h35

      I normally avoid this topic, simply because it baffles and depresses me. I just can’t get my head around these people and what they think.

      Maybe your explanation is the Occam’s razor here; they’re barking it’s just that Twitter has given them a voice.

      Can anyone think of any analogies to this movement?

    29. Dave Hansell says:

      “How did they become so brainwashed and immersed in groupthink, how did they give up all their critical thinking for this nonsense?”

      The process is known as a Purity Spiral.

      See here for an explanation:

    30. Ronald Fraser says:

      As said previously,

      Sturgeon = Thatcher in a kilt.

    31. Frazerio says:

      I can be a bit pedantic when it comes to the use of language. Ive never liked the words Feminism/Feminist. The male equivalent would be Masculinism/Masculinist which would mean the prioritisation and promotion of males/men at expense of females/women. Although feminism isnt defined as promoting women above men, its about gaining their equality, the term has just always jarred with me a bit. I’d much prefer the term Equalitist. If you’re for equality, why name yourself pro-women, pro–trans etc? I see myself as an equalitist. A very simple concept where men, women and everything in between already invented or yet to be defined is treated equally at the outset. We are all different in many ways, height, weight, age, sex, gender, but we are all humans and should be treated equally. This isnt a new concept, theres human rights conventions, courts etc. Now, within that, it goes without saying that there are some groupings that we can define that may need exemptions, extra protections etc.
      What I dont understand with the ‘trans lobby’, and I dont think Im alone on this, is why protecting rights of some groups is interpreted as hate against them. It just isn’t.

    32. Cenchos says:

      If it wasn’t for the fact that they are such a virtue-signalling, hysterical, bullying, misogynistic, homophobic, victim-playing, narcissistic, designer-labeled, bed-hopping, police-bothering, free-loading, lying, Humpty-Dumptying, minority-abusing, careerist, brown-nosing bunch of fakes, you’d kind of expect the woke clique to leave the SNP right away, eh?

    33. katherine hamilton says:

      I saw a great line on Twitter that cleverly nails these eedjits.

      “They want to be the bride at the wedding and the corpse at the funeral”

      Loved that.

    34. Peter S says:

      Bigots? – talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

    35. Frank Waring says:

      Tu quoque

    36. robertknight says:

      Ronald Fraser…

      That’s unfair. At least Thatcher didn’t pretend to be someone she wasn’t.

      The other however… more faces than a deck of cards.

    37. Karmanaut says:

      I had been wondering how this insistence on gender over sex is going to fare in environments like this where the recognition of biology is fundamental to people’s care.

      Another exmaple would be male and female urinary catheters, which are obviously different lengths. Inserting the wrong one is potentially very harmful to a patient. Given the furious reaction to this, I now wonder if the “gender over sex” activists would actualy accept that harm.

    38. Bob Mack says:

      @Katherine Hamilton,

      I’m going to use that from now on. Lol.

    39. Andy Ellis says:

      Excellent point WRT to taking the win but keeping our powder dry. We should be under no illusions about the TRA influence remaining in the SNP. Recent events are indeed a positive start, but we need action not words from the “new” NEC and the ordinary members who helped convince enough MSPs to grow a spine and face the misogynistic TRA’s down.

      The departure of roasters like Jack Deeth and others is a fine start, but ordinary members should make it abundantly clear that there is no place in a progressive party for “there is no debate” TRA bigotry. They should be politely advised to join parties that endorse their a-scientific sophomoric approach like the Greens and Liberal Democrat’s.

      With luck Kirsty Blackman and others who support her will follow the late unlamented Mr Deeth’s example? We can but hope. In the meantime however, it behoves the grown ups in the party to press home their advantage and deal with these zealots once and for all.

    40. David Holden says:

      I see Rhiannon has joined in the general group whinge though as usual you cannot reply. The reasons she is no longer SNP women’s convener are there for all to see. Argyll and Bute dodged a bullet there.

    41. Joan Edington says:

      All I can say to these folk who say the SNP will lose members over this is, “how many members have they already lost due to their own selfish obsessions”.

      By the way, the abstention was from my own constituency MSP who didn’t quite get to grips with the voting App 🙂

    42. deerhill says:

      Are these people on some mind-bending medication?

      Either that,or they have just arrived from the planet Me!Me!

    43. Bob Mack says:

      I cannot remember who said it but

      “The world of the self important can only exist because they always feel offended by someone”

    44. susanXX says:

      Good article Stu. And i can’t disagree with any of the btl comments so far. The narcissism and sense of entitlement is glaringly obvious in these people. The Bill was about allowing people who have been sexually assaulted to choose the sex of their examiner. Not to validate identities and assuage feelz.

    45. Cuphook says:

      A Puberty-blocker drug firm donated money to the LibDems and they voted for ‘gender’.

      The Greens did it as they believe humans can change sex. They used to believe that plastic mimicked estrogene and was turning men into women. They are obsessed with men turning into women. They should put this issue to the forefront of their election campaign instead of independence.

    46. Josef Ó Luain says:

      When you blow away al the froth, you’re left, in essence, with a small group of people who are incapable of simply understanding that the general community has little interest in, or use for their particular view of how reality ought to be. Such groups should never be allowed to wield influence to the extent that they were recently allowed to by the leadership of the SNP.

    47. winifred mccartney says:

      This amendment was about the right of a women who has been raped to determine the sex of the person who will examine her. How you get to ‘the only reason is to terrify trans people’ is beyond my comprehension. There are in proportion a very very small number of transwomen and many of them are just as horrified as women about people using every situation as an excuse to get at womens’ rights and needs wether its about safe spaces, women’t toilets or anything else. To say the snp or women don’t care about trans people is just nonsense – many of them are just as upset.

      Kirsty Blackman is wrong to suggest about trying to steer the snp ship back – the snp ship was sinking because of this – look at other parties, the tories in WM abandoned this and labour are not far behind – don’t let the snp be taken over by a very very small group who are more concerned about making a name for themselves and don’t care who they hurt.

      I don’t see the point of having an independent democratic country if every tiny minority can tell the rest what they are to think and do especially when biological facts cannot be changed. I for one cannot keep up with the ‘definitions’ people use to describe different groups – heaven help young people with enough to contend with growing up who now are being worried and used by groups who don’t know what they are and cannot accept themselves as they are. Some of the descriptions used are just excuses to be able to do what they like and too bad for everyone else – because if you don’t agree you are transphobic or some other phobic but of course they are perfect.

    48. JGedd says:

      They really have all the appearance of a teenage fan club now. The exaggerated ‘feelings’, the self-dramatization, the weltering emotions instead of rationality. It all seems like very adolescent melodrama, all of them trying to outdo one another in angst and outrage in defence of…well what, really?

      The willingness of people to submerge their own identity so much in groupthink that they actually lose sight of rational argument is quite unsettling. Resorting to portraying your opponents as vile people with fiendish intentions and the outcome of changing one word in a democratic vote as some kind of annihilating event is typical of people caught up in group hysteria. It does appear that their accusations of ‘hatred’ against opponents is simply projection.

      Now they are simply demonstrating that the word which they hoped would simply slip through because it was meaningless was to them after all, loaded with meaning. Well done to Johann Lamont for getting on top of that one with her amendment.

    49. Stuart MacKay says:

      Patsy Millar @12:38pm

      > Can’t believe I’m now looking on Johann Lamont as a heroine

      It might be a bit premature to say this but I wonder if this is the first signs of a desire for independence breaking out across the political spectrum. Once the more conservative elements realise their best interests lie in taking charge of their own destiny, independence will become unstoppable. A more right-wing party based on traditional feminism (I never believed I’d write those two words next to each other) might hoover up a lot of votes – certainly enough to making gaining list seats a possibility.

    50. Robert Louis says:

      Nutters. All of them. I supported the use of the word sex, and I’m gay, so I’d love one of these loonies to tell me how that fits with their distorted thinking. Of course they would likely have a problem with me describing myself as gay, and not ‘queer’ or LGBTQQIA+++++, or somesuch.

      They all need to get out more, that way they would find out, the rest of the world (including many gay people) does not necessarily agree with their silly ‘trans’ dogma. Ditto for some MSPs.

      As for the green party – a bunch of blokes voting against the choice of sex of doctor for forensic examinations of rape victims is not a good look. Do they even realise what they actually did last night??

    51. susanXX says:

      Hear, hear Robert Louis.

    52. Patrick Roden says:

      Lauren says he/she has just come home from work after having a good day “for the first time in his life”

      This goes a long way to show us the psychological damage that’s at the heart of a lot of these people’s problems.

      The narcissistic ‘it’s all about me’ as well as their ‘black and white thinking’, indicating the inability to empathize with other people and see the possibility that others may not ‘have it in for trans people’ but maybe just trying to protect females (the genuine kind) is very telling.

      The fact that any SNP MP’s would be supportive of this is a disgrace, but the way Kirsty Blackman seems to hae lost the plot and turned on her own party, kinda shows she has some narcissistic traits herself.

    53. SilverDarling says:

      If there is one thing I really despise about the people in the article, it is their deliberate conflation of anything they see as ‘transphobic’ with all their other political bugbears. The association of this amendment with taking away the rights of women to have abortion on demand is the most ridiculous thing yet.

      They have a ragbag of views that they disagree with, and anyone who espouses those views – for example that sex is immutable – belongs in their demented right wing conspiracies. They are unhinged.

      That Waddell creature who pops up every so often is one of the worst, a pouting cross eyed airhead who apparently likes to write her ‘stories’ in scented gel pens on ‘girly’ stationery and presents her life like something from a generic chicklit novella. Thon Vonny Bravo is another one.

      How have such parodies of women become so powerful in the media and publishing? The stereotyped ‘girliness’ they celebrate has set us back years and their feeble utterances of ‘feminism’ always reinforce the ghastly progressive men who are allowed say what women are.

      Creative Scotland has become a bloated breeding ground of those that revel in such mediocrity. Of course they then go on to advise the SNP or worse still enter the 3rd sector to influence legislation. I am so glad we are getting to see through their utter uselessness.

    54. Terry says:

      And who said we couldn’t campaign during covid?

      I’m in truth still disgusted that many of them were going to vote for it in the first place, but nevertheless it’s a victory/relief for rape victims, women, science, decency, truth and compassion. In fact the whole lot of us if they only had the wit to see it.

      Oh yes – and it stopped the snp turning into an unelectable shit show. They might just have retained enough constituency votes – for now… my list vote is going to best other indy party in this area come May – and that wont be the Greens.

    55. GlenIslay says:

      What an incredible display of “NPCism” from the wokies. Practically every comment uses the same buzzwords, or a variation of them to the point that if we didn’t know any better, we’d be forgiven for thinking that it’s just an army of bots.

    56. Republicofscotland says:

      Serious change within the SNP will only come when Sturgeon and Murrell are removed, till then the wokies will continue to subvert the party.

    57. Robert graham says:

      I never realised there were so many disturbed people in our country , oh well how sad eh I believe Society takes a while to adjust to change , and change that totally alters in a dramatic manner our perception of what we have come to believe is normal , it takes time most people need time to adjust , I was born in the early 1950s things we laughed at then are frowned on now I haven’t changed the world around me has changed and I have had to adjust , I have stood back and watched totally irrelevant and balmy people with ever shrill voices shout Me Me Me I am being discriminated against by them , who the Duck is them ? , I guess these temper tantrum fixated with Self with a Me Me ego that could make people believe they and they alone are getting the shit end of the stick all these put down disadvantaged poor souls .
      Makes you ducking weep I feel so sad , and I must admit ai envied them when I was getting up on a cold wet November morning well before the Sun made a appearance and after a 10 – sometimes 12 hr shift traveling home in the Snow just to maybe catch a glimpse of the Kids before they disappeared for the night , and knowing the same joyful experience awaited me in a few hours time.
      Yeah your bloody sure I feel their pain , a slap round the Ducking head for most of them is long overdue , Wakey bloody Wakey it’s not just about you ok your little difficulty is your little difficulty now get the Duck out of my face because sometimes I lose the rag , keep it up and you will get what you really really don’t want .

    58. Fairliered says:

      Looking forward to the mass resignaions. Kirsty Blackman, Shirley Anne Sommerville, Alyn Smith et al, don’t let the door hit your arses on the way out.

    59. Peter S says:

      By their use of so much abuse and vitriol these people are demonstrating their lack of confidence in their own position. If they felt secure and confident in their opinions, they would be able to promote them in a calm, sensible manner. You have lost this particular round in your battle to impose the views of a small minority on the whole world – get used to it and move on!

    60. Alan says:

      It’s not just women, either. As a man, if I was raped by another man I’d want a female examiner. Come to think of it, if a trans women was raped would they not want the choice as well?

    61. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Fuck these American-minded clowns. They should fuck off to where their extremism was minted, in a country with no respect for human life whatsoever. They’d like it there.

    62. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      By the way. I am a proud tansphobic- I fear and loathe weirdos who slather themselves in fake tan, ending up looking like a turkey basting in an oven. STAY AWAY FROM ME,PRETEND-BROWN SCUM!

    63. Iain More says:

      Kick Blackman out of the SNP.If they arent for Scots Indy first second third and last then kick them out. They can go and form their own anti Indy Party or join the Fib Dooms.

    64. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I blame the parents.

      They really are a bunch of Petulant Children who were never told “No!” and now can’t handle it out in the big, bad, real world when they are.

      I suspect many are of the perpetual student persuasion, Degree, Masters, PhD etc. hitting there 30s with zero real life experience (as the majority of the electorate would understand real life).

    65. David Ferguson says:

      There was no sudden dawning of enlightenment, just an attempt to avoid a political humiliation…

      Unfortunately I thnk it was a bit more than that. It wasn’t to “avoid political humiliation” that the whole SNP voted in favour of the amendment when it became apparent it would be carried.

      It was a cynical ploy to conceal the identities of the Wokerati from the public. If we had known who they are, we could have booted them out at the next election.

    66. Lizg says:

      While very little to do with the rights we as a society expect rape survivors to have and goes without saying ( or it should ) they are the priority here.
      No right minded person would object to doing all that they can to ease their hurt .
      And no right minded human being would look to ensure their own group interests are even considered never mind prioritised.
      But apparently we’re no dealing with right minded people here.

      The Woke nutters may be narcissistic nutters.
      Trans people may indeed need laws to be changed or tweaked somehow , but we can’t actually tell because of the gender nutters histrionics
      But the Government…..
      The actual fucking Government should be dialling back the crazy sorting out what is a reasonable way forward and building some consensus.
      This ideology has taken hold somehow and needs to be addressed.

      What Government should Not be doing … is taking part on one side of the controversy and creating more heat than light.
      It is because they have , and because our government are pushing this point of view into every public policy that they can,we have come up against actual rape victims becoming pawns in the push to embed a policy diktat into the public sphere.
      I’ll say that again……. Rape victims becoming Pawns …..
      That is disgusting beyond words.
      This is also a failure of Government itself to govern,when we have to step in and actively warn them not to plough ahead with their stated intentions , and why that is very curious, I’d say..

      We can no more change the minds of those who believe that trans women are women than we can convince the religious that there is no God.
      (But we can ensure that a belief system doesn’t capture the Laws and that’s very much what we’re up against here.)
      We have seen countless times how , when a religion gets political power , the Laws that govern are bent out of shape and it’s always , always the women and control of their bodies in the front line.
      I can’t see any difference here with this lot.

      Once TWAW is accepted and threaded through society in the same way that the notion of Gods existence is then everything else demanded makes sense.
      Listen again to Monica Lennon …. she could almost be taken as threatening Rape Victims with a Gender Recognition Certificate meaning they won’t get their way in the end anyway , because that certificate will make a Trans Woman a Woman in Law.
      The self same certificate that’s going to be made much simpler to get.
      While not that simple ( at the moment ) that’s no how she was putting it across.

      In fact one of the Tweets above hints at what I’ve long suspected.
      The reason that those pushing TWAW won’t leave it till after Indy as those asking questions have often said they are willing to do, is because they want some form of TWAW in Scotlands Constitution.
      That would be quite an international achievement for their movement.
      And that would indeed make yesterday’s change of wording meaningless , just like they say it is.

      Is this why the mad rush to embed Gender fuckwittery and the absolute adherence to the TWAW mantra ?
      Is that what is to be the crowning achievement of the Indy movement?
      Is that a “World First ” this Government are after?
      Because it seems to me that Indy was just around the corner while Trans Rights were slotting in along the way.
      As soon as the GRC was delayed…. so was any move to Indy
      We’ve always been able to leave this Union as a careful look at our history shows how worried Westminster have always been about us doing exactly that.
      There’s no real obvious reason to delay any farther.
      So is that what the hold up really is?
      Not Nicola and her Government being turned by Westminster but rather the obligation to be the Global poster child for the more powerful people behind this international push for Trans Rights?
      To be the first Constitution on the planet to include TWAW.
      Is that why there is no real opposition to this ideology in Holyrood from the other party’s?
      All the Party’s pretty much know Indy is only going one way. Are they too enthralled to the shady people behind this Trans movement?
      Tis a Thought is it no ?
      It might be quite a ridiculous thought….. but we , and our government are actually discussing Trans Women really Being Women…. Soooo!

    67. McHaggis69 says:

      1971Thistle says:
      11 December, 2020 at 12:42 pm

      I normally avoid this topic, simply because it baffles and depresses me. I just can’t get my head around these people and what they think.

      This is exactly why I have been very careful not to get directly involved. I simply don’t know enough about all of the issues.

      However, as an *observer* what I can take from what has happened over the last couple of years. That is –
      There is only one side of the debate that appears to be absolutely shrieking with hyperbole, abuse, death threats, stamping of feet and generally chucking all the toys out of the pram *big style*.

      Its not the side that simply seems to be stating a fact that there are only two sexes and nothing can alter that biological fact.

      If I had to really have a concern, it would be that genuine trans people seem to face problems with things we might take for granted. Their biggest issue though seems to be they have been totally hijacked by hairy arsed perverts who get their kicks dressing as women and who are a *real danger* to them.

      Anyway – the side that Kirsty etc are on just appear completley ludicrous these days and they certainly will *never* win me over with the way they’ve handled the issue.

    68. Barry Hughes says:

      the reaction of the TransAllies/ Alphabet Club highlights how important they thought it was to label sex and gender as interchangeable – the issue of raped women wasn’t a concern to them, this was about changing legal precedent so that they could use/ abuse laws elsewhere. their reaction sums up why it is incredibly stupid to listen to this group of hate mongers and having them anywhere with influence in any political party.

    69. Stu says:

      Totally agree with comment at 2.29pm — let them form a party of their own and campaign for their values because Independence is certainly not amongst them. I’m disgusted that in a global pandemic and with Brexit about to cause untold damage to this country that SNP leadership allowed this situation to arise at all. I will hold on to my membership a bit longer, but will see how the nonsense Hate bill develops.

    70. Derick fae Yell says:

      1971Thistle says:
      11 December, 2020 at 12:42 pm

      “Can anyone think of any analogies to this movement?”

      The only similar scaled comparative mass hysteria with a flight from reason is the witch-finding craze of 15th and 16th century Europe.

      On a smaller scale – Jim Jones and all those bodies strewn over Jonestown

    71. steph says:

      Daisy Walker 12.41pm –

      Thank you for the information. I share your loss for words.
      It is difficult to see this naked agenda and indifference in people you once trusted.

    72. Karen says:

      As a natal woman I would rather be examined by a trans man than a trans woman.

    73. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      “A lunatic demanded to be killed.” Sorry Stu, ah’ve been totally ending masel aboot that since ah first read it, n will nae doot be greetin’ wi laughter aboot it aw night. N no least cos whit ye say – even in its absolute unbalanced melodramatic bizarreness – is absolutely true. Ye couldnae make it up!

      Ah huv a sneaking suspicion thit some ay these oanline squealers n bealers n comfort-blanket-clingers n thumbsuckers kinnay masochistically enjoy getting a wee mention fae ye, like an Ultimate Troll Slapping. Thill be starting an oanline support group nixt – Campbell Scrambled!

      Therapeutic group activities will include sticking knitting needles in a rainbow-wool-hewn voodoo doll ay ye, singing rousing vengeful gentle showtunes, performing spells fir yir boaby tae drop aff, n praying tae the narroweyed pouting fabulous vengeful Bisex Rocky Horror God to smite you dead at your roaster-roasting poster post in front ay the moaning-moron-mocking monitor! 🙂

    74. Alan says:

      So consider this: let’s say the amendment had failed and then a trans woman is raped. For the investigation they ask for a woman examiner, and are presented with a trans woman as the examiner. Who’s feelings are hurt more?

    75. Bill Hume says:

      Well done Stu, I think you brought this about.
      Stay alert because ….lerts don’t let arseholes pull the wool over their eyes.
      p.s. I’m happy and not a little drunk.

    76. JSC says:

      This list of persons on Twitter, most of them appearing young in years, and their feeble grasp of reality & balanced views, reinforces my belief that the “participation prize” era of Scottish education (under the SNP to be fair) is now bearing fruit.

      That fruit might be rainbow coloured, stink, taste rotten, and poison the earth for other fruits of greater substance for ever more, but I’m sure it’s worth it for these fuckwits

    77. Lorna Campbell says:

      “… “You heard it here first, readers – letting women who’ve just been raped ask to have a female medical examiner is a step taken “purely to terrorise trans people”…”

      That sums up both the irrational, deluded nature of the trans lobby and its complete narcissism. Everything is to do with them – everything. They have every right that the rest of have, but that is not enough. They really want us all to collude in their delusion. Trans people are trans people, they are not natal men and women. They know they are not. The stupid people who support this nonsense are to be pitied. To be that naive and daft and still be breathing is a rare achievement. The one thing nobody can legislate for SNP/Humza/Mhairi is stupidity. The only thing that can be done is to call it out at every turn.

    78. Lorna Campbell says:

      Sorry, meant to add at the end: if you want to find out how many of these trans women behave towards their unsuspecting spouses before they eventually ‘come out as trans’, go on to the Mumsnet threads on trans widows. Domestic abuse doesn’t do it justice. ‘Gaslighting’ doesn’t do it justice. Then look at the Rev’s archive on trans women who have harmed others. Yes, I feel sorry for anyone who cannot live in his own skin, but does that justify harming and hurting others? Hard evidence has to be gathered and used now in support of court actions to re-establish reality in the law and society. I’d bet that other countries where problems are only now being seen, will follow suit.

    79. lumilumi says:

      Don’t the TRAs realise that the new law also works for trans people? Don’t they care about trans people?

      If a trans person is raped or sexually abused, they have the right to request a forensic medical examiner of the sex of their choice, female or male.

      The object of this law is to listen to the victims, give them some control, request a FME of the sex they prefer, if available.

      This applies not only to women (the wast majority of rape and sexual violence victims) but to men and trans people.

      Why are the TRAs in a fankle about this?

      Is it because the sneaky substituting of “gender” when “sex” is meant in legislation didn’t get throught this time?

      Is it because ordinary people are waking up to the erasure of women’s rights and taking notice.

      It is instructive to see who complain about the Johann Lamont amendment. People who centre the feelings and “rights” of a potential future forensic medical examiner, above the rights of the here-and-now actual victims of rape or sexual violence.

    80. Effijy says:

      These selfish self centred idiots are taking advantage
      Of the new laws that prevent you smacking children on
      the legs when they behave abominably.

      I’ve always wanted them to get a break in life but seeing
      their true colours now, I don’t.

    81. Contrary says:

      Jeezo, this is narcissism at its peak, isn’t it?

      Is there any mileage in starting to distinguish narcissistic-trans from dysphoric-trans? I’m not sure if that’s discriminatory in any way, but the type of extremism displayed there needs some better discription rather than woke or TRA, which are a bit mild sounding. Introducing narcissism – no, I’m not any good at pronouncing it, but I’ll practice – which is a mental illness I know, makes it clear we are not dealing with a healthy mind – the agressive me-me-me gone mad, is just that. We are told not to paint all trans with the same brush, even those that trans for narcisstic reasons, but the above diatribes aren’t written by people that hate (or used to) their bodies.

    82. lumilumi says:

      @ Contrary (9:20pm 11.12.2020)

      Also, curious that transmen don’t figure much.

      Or maybe not so curious. They’re women, no matter how much T they take and try to grow a beard.

      The trans debate is mainly about men, “transwomen”, and their needs and wants. Transmen are a sidenote.

      (What a surprise!)

    83. MorvenM says:

      For SusanXX who asked me on a previous thread:

      The lovely Gregor Murray, also quoted by the Rev above as being too feart to live in this country now, is indeed that self-same serial verbal abuser of women:

      (Sorry, can’t seem to get the archive website to work anymore.)

    84. lawrenceab says:

      You gotta hand it to the Rev., he was onto this a long time before it became apparent to most of us. Thank the Lord for his perseverance. As indeed for calling out the derailing of the SNP leadership away from its mission. When irate pols attack the blogs, you know the bloggers are doing something right!

      Stewart MacKay has a good point – I believe we’re seeing the first glimmers of Unionist MSP understanding that their future is tied to a strong Holyrood, logically therefore to independence, since HR will always be endangered without.

      I have two comments:

      Nicola S, whatever her other faults (many), has good antennae. There’s more than a little of the machine politician about her. She built herself a nice wee power base among the woke, but she’ll drop them as soon as she sees they have become an electoral liability. Witness the way SNP MSPs were whipped to back Lamont’s amendment overwhelmingly. So now she’s back-pedalling but has a problem to overcome. Good!

      If I may channel our erudite Callum McBrodie, I’d like to call attention to this article on the origins of “wokeness”. There is a lot at stake here:

      It is not just about bringing the SNP wokerati back under leash. It is a larger threat. This is the toxic outgrowth of a philosophical movement – I would say, an aberration – that endangers ALL the values we have inherited from the Enlightenment by positing that universal truth does not exist, that all is relative. Without universal truths our lives and societies become a zero-sum game where the loudest and strongest pressure the others.

      It began with the deconstructivist post-modernists like Foucault and Derrida, and their tortured analysis of language, and it has grown into a worldwide challenge to rational thinking. This article cites a book: “Cynical Theories: how Activist Scholarship made Everything about Race, Gender & Identity” by Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay. It is first class. If you get get, do. It will open your eyes.

    85. gonorplia says:

      Seen a couple of folks on these threads complain why they can’t just chat about Indy…

      I’m a yoon, only been reading Wings the past wee while because it’s been championing this stuff. Watched the 2015 general election in horror as the likes of Mark Lazarowicz were ousted for opportunists and careerists wearing yellow rosettes. Fucking tub of lard would have won if it had stood.

      You’ll only get me on side if it’s a country that proves it can actually govern itself effectively and not some hollow woke husk where we cannot speak our minds. On this issue in particular WM seems to be doing a better job than us. That, the dire Hate Crime Bill, and wee Nikki trying to one-up the English at every turn gives the impression Scotland is just fumbling around in the dark. It’s great to read these pieces and comments and see the indy crowd refuse to stand for it.

      Thank you Stu, I’ll go back to lurking.

    86. Lulu Bells says:

      Mr Campbell, you truly have a way of telling it how it is and backing that up with hard evidence… a real skill.

      @ Daisy Walker 12:41 pm – Very well made point.

      Trans people, well regrettably I knew one very well before I knew he was Trans I watched him abuse and undermine and totally mentally destroy a lovely young woman’s life. He did not want to be with her he wanted to be her. Every time she looked even more beautiful or wore a lovely dress she paid for it. One thing is certain not enough is known about this condition called Trans for a person with it to be allowed to be in charge of R*pe Crisis Centre.

    87. Lorna Campbell says:

      Lulu Bells: the Mumsnet trans widow threads show how these men treat their wives and partners, and it is just like domestic abuse and ‘gaslighting’, control freaky and jealousy. They all tend to follow the same pattern. I absolutely agree with you that so much more work needs to be done on this condition before we should even contemplate changing legal definitions.What we need is hard evidence to show that this is not just in a persons head before we go turning society upside down. Also, a read of the UN human rights legislation on this, the EHRC ruling and the 2010 Equality Act will show that nowhere does it say that accessing sex-based spaces is okay. The UN human rights addition to include trans people does not, in any way, extend rights beyond those we all have, to trans people. These activists are ‘gaslighting’ all of society. The statistics they show to prove that trans people are among the most victimised are not from the UK, or even anywhere in the West, but from countries which are traditional and very conservative, so throw no light, but plenty of heat, on the issue here. I think that, eventually, women, as a class, in a class action, are going to have to approach the UN and the EHRC for clarification because they won’t offer it unless we ask, and trans people are going to end up with far more rights than anyone else if we don’t. It is utterly ridiculous.

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