The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Progress update

Posted on April 13, 2022 by

In slightly over a month from now, Nicola Sturgeon will overtake Alex Salmond as the longest-serving First Minister of Scotland. It seemed a reasonable time to take stock.

It’s very nearly six years since the Sunday Herald headline above from 1 May 2016. (Remember the Sunday Herald, readers? It feels like another lifetime, doesn’t it?)

April/early May is very often the period leading up to an election, which is when the SNP traditionally ramp up the carrot-dangling about independence to secure the votes of the faithful for yet another “cast-iron mandate”, so it’s not a bad barometer. Let’s see how far we’ve come.

The last poll before 1 May 2016 was just a few days earlier – a Panelbase one for the Sunday Times with the fieldwork from 23-28 April. It found support, with Don’t Knows excluded, at Yes 47% No 53%.

The most recent poll is one conducted by BMG for the Herald, reported four days ago. It found support, with Don’t Knows excluded, at Yes 47% No 53%.

Just for fun, let’s also see where we were at the halfway point. Panelbase also did a poll from 24-26 April 2019, right in the middle of the other two. It found support, with Don’t Knows excluded, at Yes 47% No 53%.

What about the intervening years? There were no April polls in either 2018 or 2020, but Survation did do April ones in 2017 and 2021 so let’s add those too to get another polling company into the mix.

In April 2017 Survation found support at Yes 47% No 53%, whereas in April 2021, in the middle of COVID, they recorded it at Yes 47% No 53%.

And what the heck, we may as well be completist and include Sturgeon’s first ever April as SNP leader/FM, that of 2015, as well. A YouGov poll for the Sunday Times that month broadens our sample with another different polling company, and found figures of Yes 47% No 53%.

So let’s put those into a graph and see how we’ve been doing under Nicola Sturgeon’s leadership, through perhaps the worst, most chaotic, shambolic and disastrous peacetime years in the history of the UK – Brexit, knocking on for 200,000 deaths from a virus pandemic, runaway inflation, empty shop shelves and all the rest of it.

Thank goodness for that calm, steady leadership winning over all those soft No voters and building support to the point where it’ll be irresistible, eh folks? Just another infinity years to wait and we’ll be right there.

We don’t know about you, but we’re counting down the days.

 .

APPENDIX

An interesting facet of today’s poll is that the SNP habitually claim massive youth support for indy, but in fact the 16-24s the party obsessively pursues are only very narrowly in favour, and less so than the sneered-at “boomers” of 45-54. It’s specifically the 25-34 bracket that’s the outlier (along with over-65s at the other end).

Also striking, for those of us who remember the SNP’s supposed “woman problem” under Alex Salmond, is the fact that after seven years of Sturgeon’s leadership there’s now a sizeable gulf in support between men and women, with men very narrowly pro-indy and women against by a hefty 14 points.

That’s a spectacular drop since Sturgeon initiated plans for “gender reform” last year, just days after a poll in which 60% of women backed independence.

And it’s very female-specific. The drop in support among men since the poll cited by Carslaw is just three points, compared to the 17-point fall among women in the same period, and has turned a 14-point Yes lead into a 6-point No lead.

Who’d have guessed that destroying women’s rights would be unpopular with women?

Print Friendly

    1172 to “Progress update”

    1. Scott says:

      The lady’s not for turning.

    2. Ian McCubbin says:

      The only way to Independence now is with a fresh start and party like Alba and or ISP both with commitment to Independence by a few routes including Plebescite.
      SNP are like new Labour not true to their constitution.

    3. gordoz says:

      The failure is there for all to see, except the idiots & 5th column of the fan club.
      The damage is heart breaking.
      She needs to go and go now !

    4. Calum says:

      “here were no April polls in 2018”

      Think you’re missing a T there.

    5. Fraser Reid says:

      Does this mean a return?

    6. Turnbuldrier says:

      I believe the world record for holding your breath is about 5min…

      Infinity years.. I don’t fancy my chances.

      Ta for the update tho Stu…

    7. Fraser Reid says:

      You do not know how happy the notification e-mail made me 🙂

    8. Breeks says:

      Anybody with integrity would step down from the embarrassment.

    9. Awkward Westie says:

      Well that brighten up my day … ok maybe not the content of the article, but still good to see it (even if it is unpleasant truths)

    10. Ruglonian says:

      The best that we can hope for now is that she uses this “win”, of being the longest serving FM, as a catalyst to assess the success she’s made of advancing the cause and then steps down to allow progress to happen.

    11. aulbea1 says:

      Thanks, Stu – excellent piece, as always. Figure head for the union that’s the tractor sturgeon, right enough.

    12. Ryan says:

      @Breeks it seems like nearly everyone in politics (and in wider society) lacks integrity these days.

      (Pointing most elbows at you BoJo).

    13. Frank Waring says:

      I think that at least hypothetically there could be a route to independence, and that would be to build continuing calm and inclusive discussion of the practicalities of independence — constitution, currency, defence policy, justice policy, etc, etc, etc. I think that independence will come when the people of Scotland take it — and that not enough of them will be prepared to do that until they know what it will bring them…..

    14. robertknight says:

      Somewhere in North Ayrshire, a beach is missing it’s donkey. (Last seen skulking in the vicinity of Charlotte Square, Edinburgh, posing as an enthusiast of Scottish Independence).

    15. Jan Cowan says:

      Always good to hear from you – but I look forward to your “Nicola’s gone!” announcement.

    16. Mike says:

      We have, Unfortunately, been saddled with an absolute fraud as a FM.
      Could go on all day about what a let down and a disappointment she is, However, anyone reading Wings knows this already.

    17. Eddie Munster says:

      Fells almost like a generation ago.

    18. holymacmoses says:

      The Political equivalent of ‘Flatliners’ without any indication of redemption.
      We need a political ‘Jerk’ to get independence back on the road again.
      It’s always good to read your work, even when it depresses me. I have downloaded my favourite blogs.
      I long to have the angry, moral, creative gung-ho literary Wings back for me to read. AND I understand that isn’t possible now but I will never say never:-)

    19. Neil Anderson says:

      Robert Knight, I heard it was a bike that was missing from that Ayrshire toon.

    20. Muscleguy says:

      The boomers ended in 1963. I was born in ’65 and I’m Gen X and 56. The boomers are now the elderly.

    21. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ditto Holymacmoses!

      Thanks for this Rev – depressing though it is and to be reminded of all the wasted enthusiasm and verve.

    22. Muscleguy says:

      The Baby Boomers finish in ’63/4. I was born in ’65 and I’m Gen X and 56 You got the wrong age group.

    23. ClanDonald says:

      She’s not up to the job. She’s sidelined all the talent and filled ministerial and government roles with her favourite yes-men who follow her woke mantra (proving they’re not very bright) and are too scared to challenge her.

      This is why we have the Ferry Fiasco, the failed OBFA act, the u-turn on a national energy company and the selling off of our wind energy at bargain basement prices. It’s why the much vaunted national bank is nothing more than a loan facility for favourite, woke projects.

      It’s why the flawed gender balance on public boards bill was successfully challenged in court and why we have a hate crime bill that protects men in lipstick but not women.

      It’s why they failed to deliver their reverse-vending policy, promised years ago but now quietly dropped (which many of us knew was undeliverable all along).

      It’s why the weak predator of teenage boys, Derek McKay, was able to become her finance minister.

      Don’t get me started on the unlawful, biased investigation… And as for the unneccesary deaths in care homes in the early days of the pandemic, grrrrrr.

      Seriously, she hasn’t a clue. And now she wants 16 year old school kids in parliament deciding things like economic growth strategies ahahahahaha. But only if they use pronouns in their bio, of course.

      And, as we can all now see clearly, she’s done absolutely nothing to achieve what we all voted her there to do – deliver independence. There’s no way I’d have been chapping doors over the past 7 years and donating large sums of money (which was then apparently embezzled for purposes other than independence – how is that investigation going, by the way?) if I’d known for a second that she had no intention of pursuing another referendum.

      So for the love of God, just go, Nicola, we’re sick to the back teeth of your failures and constant need for ego nourishing. Let someone with some talent take over and get the party back to its original purpose.

    24. sarah says:

      Many thanks, Rev, for this clear presentation of “the great achievements” of NS.

      I miss the compilation graphic of those 40 National front pages, though. 🙂

    25. ronald anderson says:

      Stuart in furtherance promotion of the Wee Alba Book might I suggest another Wings interview with Alex Salmond preferably with Holyrood as the backdrop , that would go viral .

      That would noise up the Snp no end

    26. panda paws says:

      Well of course women will be put off indy if they think they will not have their current sex based rights in an independent Scotland especially if the Tories bin GRA reform in England and Wales.

      Divide and rule and puppet leaders – a story as old as time itself.

    27. Mark Boyle says:

      Ian McCubbin says:
      13 April, 2022 at 11:25 am

      The only way to Independence now is with a fresh start and party like Alba and or ISP both with commitment to Independence by a few routes including Plebescite.
      SNP are like new Labour not true to their constitution.

      Alba, ISP and the rest of the 57 varieties of “alternative” are a major part of the problem, not the solution, a squabbling array of tinpot caesars promising the Cuillins but having more in common with the Cullens – lots of sparkle, little substance, and certainly in their Twilight. There’s as much chance of Peter Dow leading Scotland to independence than any of that lot.

      If they can’t unite amongst themselves, there’s zero chance they could unite the 50% plus one required to lead any independence campaign to success – and I mean REALLY unite, not “share platforms” at some public march or meeting 99% of the country don’t give two shits about and is largely manic self-indulgence in this day and age if those involved were remotely honest about it with themselves. There needs to be a clearout, new faces, new tactics, and no small amount of patience.

      It was Labour’s arrogance that finished it, so in turn will be the SNP’s. Labour lasted up here for as long as they did because there was no effective opposition to them – same as any other party in any other land.

      Politics is always hostage to what Macmillan called “Events, dear boy, events!”, but as things stand we’re looking at least ten years down the line – and the damage done by Sturgeon’s lunatic sense of priorities – before the anger resultant in a new generation creates the opportunity for a tangible potential alternative movement to arise.

    28. sarah says:

      @ Mark Boyle: this “squabbling array” combined their support in the 2021 election campaign to vote Alba. They also said their followers should vote SNP in the constituencies.

      This is known as “putting country before party”.

    29. Effigy says:

      SNP need to grow a pair and March out of Westminster like the Irish
      and never return.

      They have accepted us being ripped out of the EU against our will.
      They accept the devolved powers due to us are being taken away.
      Boris has stated clearly that Scot’s are a Verminous race, he would put us in a ghetto and eliminate us and that he would always invest in England before Scotland.

      Boris is a pathological liar, he is a racist and he is bullying sex pest and some Scots seem to be saying let’s stick with that.

      Unbelievable!

    30. Scott says:

      Mark Boyle says: tl;dr?

      Every pro-indy party, there’s 57, is worse than Peter Dow at politics for at least the next 10 years.

    31. Tommo says:

      Isn’t the straightforward truth this;
      Sturgeon would love to be head of an independent country-monarch of all she surveys
      She and the rest of her party know that if they had got a second referendum at any time in recent years they would have lost (Again)
      When they had lost she/her and her party would become largely irrelevant and jobs/status and perks would vanish
      Her only chance comes by mugging off the Scottish people quickly at a time of high Scots dudgeon at some real or imagined disaster
      As the learned Editor points out, even a series of near-catastrophes in recent years haven’t managed to budge the opinion needle far enough to make the gamble worth her while- why risk it when you can just keep promising the faithful jam tomorrow ?

    32. Robert Dickson says:

      It’s just nice to see a piece from you now and again old chum

    33. Dave Llewellyn says:

      I know on such a serious article mine is bit of a lightweight comment but I couldn’t match the Revs articulate and incisive comment so I will leave it this.
      Dont you think after all this time 7 years FMs wages plus expenses, not to nention a 600k windfall bonus she could afford a new jacket?

    34. Graham Lamont says:

      Alex’s idea of the independence movement being separate from the SNP Government has never been more needed, as highlighted by this post. NS and the SNP have done nothing to move us even one millimetre closer to independence since 2014.

      She and they are frauds, first and last

    35. sarah says:

      @ Robert Dickson: “It’s just nice to see a piece from you now and again, old chum.”

      Hear,hear. And three cheers.

    36. Breeks says:

      Frank Waring says:
      13 April, 2022 at 11:41 am

      I think that at least hypothetically there could be a route to independence, and that would be to build continuing calm and inclusive discussion of the practicalities of independence…

      Frank, I solemnly believe Independence is within touching distance, and has been since 2016.

      There are multiple ways to achieve it, but unfortunately Sturgeon helped herself to the kitty, and put the lot on the only three legged donkey in the race… the Section 30 route nonsense.

      I believe the SNP has been got at. If not got at by UK Establishment, then got at by their own cowardice and lack of talent / ability.

      I don’t even think it’s necessary to get rid of Sturgeon in order to progress a Constitutional route Independence, but at the same time, Sturgeon has a democratic mandate of sorts, and were she to formally oppose a Constitutional initiative, that could potentially provide a crutch for Westminster to limp with, and complicate matters immensely. Sadly, on past form, you’d be foolish to suppose Sturgeon would do anything else except squander momentum and sabotage progress.

      The impetus for a Constitutional Initiative, and most likely a People’s Constitutional Assembly, is building, and I think at some stage, the Scottish Government will be obliged to endorse this approach, or suffer the consequences.

      At the moment however, Sturgeon is simply too big a liability.

      Again, I firmly believe the Constitutional route to Independence will pay dividends, but such an approach is likely to be controversial at first, and perhaps susceptible to sabotage the same way a Holyrood Super-majority was sabotaged.

      Sturgeon complicates things, and not in a good way, but more and more people are finally beginning to figure that out…

    37. Patsy Millar says:

      Always great to see you back doing what you’re so good at, even if the contents make depressing reading. Hope you’re keeping well.

    38. Sharny Dubs says:

      She has done her masters bidding.

      And still somehow manages to cling on. Just shows what a mockery our “democracy” is.

      Good to see your mail all the same young man!!

    39. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      She will not change now.

      We will not get any activity regarding independence while the SNP are running the show.

      Good luck to Alba and the other independence parties.

    40. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This table, which shows how ‘clear’ SNP policies are, seems to complement the article pretty well:

      https://gettr.com/user/revstu

    41. Cringe says:

      Marcus Carslaw said on twitter in the last week that a referendum should not be held unless there is already a yes lead.

    42. Cuilean says:

      Dear Stu,

      I so miss your razor-sharp analysis on the state of Scots politics and Scotland. You never patronize but you always get the facts across, clearly and succinctly.

      Scotland is going no where with this SNP leader.

      I do wish you would rejoin the fray on a regular basis, as the SNP need you to keep their feet, indeed their whole anatomy, to the fire on independence.

      And a party who won’t look me in the eye and define an adult female human will never again shill my vote, under false pretences.

      Remember how Ian Blackford would strut and fret that Scotland would never be dragged out of the EU against its will?

      Where is the ring fenced £600k for Indyref2.

      Charlatans, the whole lot of them, with one or two honourable exemptions, like Jo Cherry. Ms Cherry Scotland needs you. Don’t let the incompetent seat warmers grind you down. Your time must come, for awa that.

    43. Liz says:

      Thanks for the update, Stu.
      TBH Im surprised its as much as 47% pro.
      The current SNP are the worst, most useless gov we’ve had

      So many botched attempts at delivering policy.
      Make no mistake when GRA reform passes, it will head to the CoS.
      The worse than useless Christina McK along with Shona R will lose again and the tax payer will carry the burden.

      BTW her partner is the equally useless Keith Brown who is apparently, the signature on the ferry contract

    44. X_Sticks says:

      Good to see you’re still on the ball Stuart. You’re incisive journalism is missed.

    45. Mark Boyle says:

      sarah says: 13 April, 2022 at 12:38 pm

      @ Mark Boyle: this “squabbling array” combined their support in the 2021 election campaign to vote Alba. They also said their followers should vote SNP in the constituencies.

      This is known as “putting country before party”.

      But they didn’t combine their support, did they? And they weren’t putting country before party, were they?

      Save one or two noble cases (before the usual greetin’ faces start …) they did fk all to help Alba in any practical terms. By and large they simply sat it out, the ISP even issued a surly “look what you could have won” statement, making it pretty obvious it had only pulled out AFTER already declaring their candidacies mainly because they knew they were going to get horsed.

      Everyone was polite enough at the time to let them save some face and say “bravo, done the right thing” and all that, but the general public – cynical as they are – weren’t fooled one bit. The time for uniting is BEFORE an election is called, never mind one that’s been in the calendar for years … “withdrawing” on the eve of battle is exactly what it is – chickening out, not “compromising”.

      There’s been a year for everyone to come to their senses. Now here we are again, the same fractions of factions nonsense, largely because Alba looks fatally wounded (bar some miracle, Salmond is now the new Parnell) and the same chancers from a few years ago are now trying their luck – except this time out these other pretenders to the “independence movement” throne have been caught out as to their true levels of strength by their pitiful number of candidates – the exact same as those proffered for the Holyrood elections.

      After all their bloviating, all their claims of standing candidates across the country, bar Alba they couldn’t even manage a fraction of what the soft far-right “Scottish Family Party” have managed to put up. They have discovered that “fake it until you make it” no more worked for them than it did for Jered Threatin.

      Another year for the anti-Sturgeon, pro-independence camp has been wasted on petty intrigues and scrabbling for whatever table scraps of activists drop from the SNP’s table as they further alienate members. It seems pretty clear they will continue to do so, repeating the same old mistakes. Little wonder Sturgeon’s gang of race hustlers, crooks, crackpots and perverts feel secure to do exactly as they please.

    46. robbo says:

      Maybe we can arrange similar for the SNP high heid yins delegation talking shite next time they’re on a platform talking about the ring fenced £600k, Ferry builds, GRA, OR Independence.

      The fat controller would probably do it all on his own

      https://www.msn.com/en-gb/video/viral/5-indian-men-survive-after-dramatically-getting-swallowed-up-by-collapsing-concrete/vi-AAWa6Ni?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=36e4050933184e2596424ca22e84386d

    47. Garavelli Princip says:

      What is all the fuss about? Nikla is doing a great job for her sponsors!

      Her Brit Deep State handlers can rest in their beds knowing that this woman, so proud of her English heritage, is doing her level best for her country!

    48. Andrew Morton says:

      As far as I’m concerned, the immediate goal is no longer independence but the removal of Sturgeon, not just from the leadership, but also from membership of the party. She’s a boil on the bum of the independence movement. She wrecks everything she touches.

    49. Andrew Morton says:

      An acquaintance of mine who is a brexiter and rabidly anti independence recently told me that it has become obvious that Nicola has no intention of ever holding another referendum.

    50. Republicofscotland says:

      We’ve not moved one inch towards independence under Sturgeon the betrayers tenure as FM, if anything we’ve moved farther away from it, and the indy masses have fractured in the process with some still believing that she’ll deliver independence.

      Our educational system which used to be very good has fallen so far now that we’re reduced to talking about sex questions for kiddes on the SNP’s school questionnaires.

      Our hospitals are crying out for staff, and Sturgeon shutdown hospitals like the Western in Glasgow that served the community well, our A&E service is so stretched that you’ve to go elsewhere unless you are dying (how do you know if you’re dying or not) most doctors are still playing the Covid card so its still difficult to get an appointment that’s not four weeks away, our chemists have taken on the bulk of the duties now and from what I can see they are now at breaking point as well.

      Our NHS dentists are going private and those that can’t/won’t are quitting due to the way they are now paid by the NHS. Our young folk are still dying in huge numbers in Scotland from drugs abuse, our prisons are the fullest in Western Europe per population, the price of food and fuel and the cost of living in general has skyrocketed and will continue to go up, we have the poorest pension in Western Europe.

      We can’t even build a ferry without it going millions over budget, but what can Sturgeon do, lets see, she can push her self-Id and GRA agenda that the majority of Scots don’t see as a priority, she can fit up an ex-FM, and imprison a ill indy blogger who reported on the fit up, she can make the 600K indy ring fenced cash disappear, I meant weave it through accounts, ( a great escape for McGarry in that one) she can swan around in front of world leaders at the COP26, she can with the help of the SPCB stop demo’s outside our parliament, she can allow online abuse of Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine by fellow SNP employees.

      Sturgeon has no intention of trying to free Scotland from this rancid union, the SNP is a party of careerists now, their MPS make a good living at Westminster and the short money the party gets comes in handy. So expect the carrots to be dangling every time there’s an election on the horizon as in this May’s election, already Susan Aitken of the SNP ran Glasgow city council has said that 80,000 Scots households will receive £110 pounds voucher if they receive a Council Tax rebate. This will be given out just before May’s elections or so they say.

      If you want indy vote for the Alba party, at the very least they know what a woman is.

    51. Monica Worley says:

      Would be interesting to see how (or if) the percent “don’t knows” has changed over this period. Are more people decided now than before? If so, we have a problem that’s bigger than the mess these numbers show.

    52. mike cassidy says:

      Any serious independence supporter has given up on the SNP as it is currently led

      What is scary about those numbers is the flatline quality

      Are there a lot of Scots who still genuinely think – against all the evidence – that we are better off within the UK?

      Or are there a lot of Scots who have just switched off in ‘a plague on both your houses’ manner?

    53. 100%Yes says:

      The New SNP (or the privileged) who are councillors, MSPs or MPs have realized the union isn’t at all bad when every single thing in their lives is paid for by the Tax payers and when you’re elected you don’t really have to do anything apart from shout at the right time you want Indy, because most people don’t pay attention to politics and wont notice lack of results. All those who are election to office haven’t actually achieved a single thing in the last 8 years, both at Holyrood or Westminster. So why hasn’t the glaikit Scots not cottoned on to this yet, that the New SNP are a con and they’d love it the British MP said no for the next 307yrs and they will/

    54. Daisy Walker says:

      Re, ‘the ladies not for turning’

      Hmmm, methinks the ‘lady’ got turned quite some time ago.

      Great to see the Rev back, no-one cuts through the crap better than him. Just the facts mam, nothing but the facts.

      Anyway, been doing Alba leaflets in Perth, Fife and Dundee… very positive response round the doors.

      The Great British Fuel Robbery is THE GAME CHANGER.

      It’s no Puitin puttin up the cost of Scotland’s Hydro’leccie’, it’s London.

      Indy or Bust Folks, before they come and steal our Water too.

    55. Peter A Bell says:

      I averaged the Yes figures in the first 12 polls after Sturgeon took over. I then compared this with the most recent 12 polls (to the end of March). The result? 45.25% and 45.08% respectively.

      Flatlined!

    56. Ruby says:

      Also striking, for those of us who remember the SNP’s supposed “woman problem” under Alex Salmond, is the fact that after seven years of Sturgeon’s leadership there’s now a sizeable gulf in support between men and women, with men very narrowly pro-indy and women against by a hefty 14 points.

      The problem with the above is that I don’t know what is meant by men and women.

      Are ‘transwomen’ more inclinded to be SNP voting Unionists in the hope the Green/SNP will remain in power and grant them their every wish?

      Or are women who have always been women so discussed with the Green/SNP cult that they have decided the better option for women would be in the Union with the Tories?

    57. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The Baby Boomers finish in ’63/4. I was born in ’65 and I’m Gen X and 56 You got the wrong age group.”

      You and I know that, but the Twitler Youth don’t. They use the term for anyone over 30.

    58. Scott says:

      Nicola Sturgeon dresses like Thatcher used to before she took a stroke and got cremated, and is a Privy Councillor by virtue of being First Minister.

      Alex Salmond and all previous survivng FMs are also on PC; as are Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak, Ruth Davidson, et al.

      PC, Queen-in-counsel > by ‘its’ advice and assent > acts as Royal Prerogative > enables Acts of WM into law. Get’s TOP SECRET briefings blah,blah,blah. – PC is a ‘legal fiction’ of English law.

      Back to Nictating Sturgeon.

      Playing Devil’s Lord Advocate here (I’m lying and ignore ‘maybe,?’), but maybe some politicians hands are bound by an oath/affirmation more than others?

      Luckily, there’s an easy way to find that out.

      The quorum for a meeting of the PC is a mere 3 so…

      …the next time the monarchy is on Scottish soil, Nicola Sturgeon, Alex Salmond and Ruth Davidson could hold a meeting

      ..and issue an Order in Council, which is legislation/’the law’ in its own right.

    59. Manandboy says:

      So, the light at the end of the Independence dark tunnel has yet to appear, unless I’ve gone completely blind. But at least we now know that Stu is also in the tunnel with us, and that’s pretty big for me. Glad to know you’re still intact Stu.?
      We also now know that herself has long since transitioned to Unionism. Liz will be on a big bonus from MI5.
      The Yes vote has also remained intact, albeit in remand. Release date yet to be decided.
      No more to say, except that doing time in the Colony these days isn’t exactly fun, but needs must I guess.
      Soldiering on.
      Best wishes to Stu & Wingers everywhere.

    60. Ruby says:

      I feel the same way about Nicola Sturgeon as I do about Andy Ellis.

      The only place she is leading folk is up the garden path to the carrot patch!

    61. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Thanks, Stu.

    62. Cuilean says:

      Daisy,

      I think water is the main reason England wants to hang onto Scotland. There is more fresh water in Loch Ness than in all the lakes & rivers in England & Wales combined – and Scotland has 10,000 OTHER fresh water lochs.

      You can’t drink oil and the last war humans will fight, will be for fresh water.

    63. Breeks says:

      It’s a thoroughly unwarranted kindness to call this flatlining, given the series of priceless golden opportunities Sturgeon has squandered, instead on turning the screw on Westminster when it’s been on the ropes. Add to that failure Sturgeon’s divisive bullshit agenda, and the hatchet jobs she’s done on one good Indy person after another.

      Support for Independence should have been, would have been, flourishing under any diligent leadership, and Scotland would have been ripe for a Constitutional resurrection of Scottish Sovereignty.

    64. Monica Worley says:

      From a poll in Sept 2020:
      “84% of Scots aged 16-24 said they would vote Yes, with 75% backing independence in the 25-34 category.”
      The change from 2020 to now, 18 months later, in the 16-24s is shocking. Down to 52%. Is it women in that age group changing their mind?
      Poll discussed here:
      https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-support-soars-among-22694382

    65. Republicofscotland says:

      With May’s election on the horizon, the Glasgow ran SNP council is pledging eighty-thousand food vouchers to the hardest hit, and their counterparts at Edinburgh city council (SNP) are pledging tram extensions if re-elected in May.

      The carrots are dangling closer and closer as May’s elections arrive.

    66. Robert Hughes says:

      A monkey that came last in a peanut-opening contest could have done more as an Independence leader than that utter fraud .

      The most contemptible politician in my lifetime , and , yes , that includes all the useless wastes of space * thrown-up * by New Labour , Tories and Lib Dems : only Blair , scumbag though he undoubtedly is , comes close : but at least he – like the rest of the Unionist has-beens/never- weres didn’t pretend to be a National Liberator , attempt to destroy his mentor or inflict the insanity of GRA * Reform * on the people who elected and placed their trust and hopes for better future on him

    67. Chas says:

      Would anybody seriously vote for an Independent Scotland with Sturgeon and her incompetents in charge? Ably backed up by the loons in the Greens of course.
      We have absolute disasters in charge at Westminster and Holyrood, all doing very well for themselves, thank you.
      Alba did give me some hope a few months ago but this has already sadly petered out. I will vote for them but fear the worst.
      How long before the usual suspects/dreamers start trotting out The Constitution, The 300 year old Treaty etc etc.
      Then the thread will become another vehicle for Scum 1 (RoS) to spout his bile and Andy Ellis/John Main will try and counter.
      Wings and Scotland overall has been very depressing for a while now.

      Ruby

      In my mind the majority of transwomen are simply homosexual men who cannot accept what they are. A hatred of ‘real’ women also helps! You know what I mean when I say ‘real’ hopefully.

    68. Clavie Cheil says:

      I will be spoiling my ballot in May as I have nobody to vote for. there is no Alba candidates and the Independents are both Indy hating Tories.

      No danger of me voting SNP as they a have clearly given up on Indy and even promoting it. Sic a parcel of rogues in a nation.

      Meanwhile I have to cut back on using petrol and running any heating in energy rich Scotland. Fuel poverty in energy rich Scotland under English Rule.

    69. Stoker says:

      Oh how i miss reading quality Scottish political articles. Truly wish you’d get back on that horse, Stuart. Independence isn’t the SNP, certainly not the current disgracefully inept custodians. Or should that be disgracefully inept squatters?

    70. Stoker says:

      Clavie Cheil says on 13 April, 2022 at 7:16 pm:
      “I will be spoiling my ballot in May as I have nobody to vote for. There is no Alba candidates ”

      Me too!

      Clavie also wrote: “Meanwhile I have to cut back on using petrol and running any heating in energy rich Scotland. Fuel poverty in energy rich Scotland under English Rule.”

      Whilst Sturgeon and Murrell sit in grand opulence with us paying their heating for them.

    71. Scott says:

      And is if by magic, both Nicola & Ruth have given public views about Boris Johnson via the televisual media.

      What a constitutional crisis, lovely.

      Privy Councillor seeks resgnation of PM.

      A duty now follows to seek to advise the monarch.

      Wilful failure to do so is a criminal offence at common law in Scotland, removal is my desire for Boris too, and others unnamed.

      Team Ruth & Team Nicola – for a new generation or snot?

    72. red sunset says:

      Call me Off Topic, but …
      Is anyone producing a 1-2-3 voting guide for this election?
      It would have to be for each ward.

      Do we Vote Till You Boak – or was that idea trounced last time around?
      I remember some people saying to number every candidate. Some saying just number the ‘good guys’.

      What’s the strategy this year?

    73. Ruby says:

      Chas says:

      Ruby

      In my mind the majority of transwomen are simply homosexual men who cannot accept what they are. A hatred of ‘real’ women also helps! You know what I mean when I say ‘real’ hopefully.


      I don’t think it’s as simple as that Chas.

      Many transwomen are lesbians and get very angry when lesbians don’t want to date them.
      Some are just cross dressers & fancy themselves when they cross dress.
      Some claim to be trans in order to access women’s hospital wards, toilets, refuges & prisons
      Some are flashers/peeping Toms and like the idea of claiming to be a woman in order to be able to flash & peep without being arrested.
      Some are paedophiles & like to dress up as furry animals.
      Some like to wear nappies & eat baby food.
      Some are highly ambititious athletes who will do anything to win.
      Some have gender dysphoria & are lesbians
      Some have gender dysphoria & are attracted to men
      Some have serious mental health issues & that is tragic.

      One thing a transwoman definitely isn’t is a woman.

      Thanks anyway for trying to help.

    74. John Main says:

      @Pubes 8:24

      “Some are highly ambititious athletes who will do anything to win”

      Wondering at the “tit” you inserted in the middle of “ambitious”.

      A mistake? Or, considering the subject, a subtle joke?

    75. Donald Raymond says:

      Spit on.

      Let’s hope Alba can build up as a serious alternative to the SNP

    76. Geri says:

      We have our very own Emelda Marcos in our midst! Her, her man & her shoes need jettisoned to Blighty ASAP!

      As for women turning their backs. That’s a given! Can you imagine, just for a nano second if you dare, this current crew of misfits & feckwits in charge of Scotland’s exit & negotiations? Sheesh! It’d be Spud on crack!
      Also alarm bells of a nutter in charge who presses on regardless of public opinion & her own dogmatic ‘I shall decide’ attitude sealed her fate – for me at least. No one likes a dictator.
      I’m reminded what Alex said about Sturgeon in her leadership race to replace Swinney ‘Shes not ready’ How right he was. Even way back then he knew she’d no balls for the job.
      Sigh. I can’t believe it’s came to this. Her road must run out soon.

    77. Muscleguy says:

      Stu you got a mention in Dennis Noel Kavanah’s appeal against his twitter suspension.

      https://dennisnoelkavanagh.substack.com/p/twitter-is-silencing-gay-men/comments?s=r#comment-6036988

    78. Daisy Walker says:

      @, ‘ Cuilean says:
      13 April, 2022 at 4:43 pm

      Daisy,

      I think water is the main reason England wants to hang onto Scotland. There is more fresh water in Loch Ness than in all the lakes & rivers in England & Wales combined – and Scotland has 10,000 OTHER fresh water lochs.

      You can’t drink oil and the last war humans will fight, will be for fresh water.’

      It’s all of the above, plus liebensraum included… remember they ‘love us’.

      The current energy price rise makes no sense from a business point of view, (which would lead to a more modest rise) and every sense from a political ‘lets break them’ stand point.

      Project Fear was bullshit on steroids… Project ‘England First… sorry Britain’… is the real deal. We win or we lose, there’s nothing in between now, and there is no more time for ‘ca’canny’.

    79. Scott says:

      John Curtice was on TV.

      https://twitter.com/BBCScotNine/status/1514345378824470537?s=20&t=gKw-LerIspN0qsvFlTIvkg

      Tories been polling consistently in 3rd place in Scotland since Dec21 & looks baked in to cooncil election; his top lip is huge.

    80. Cath says:

      I’ve been saying for ages that this supposed “demographic shift” is nothing of the sort. The younger cohort were massively more pro Indy as they were the ones given most hope, voice and vision of change by the referendum campaign in the run up to 2014 (the one led by Alex Salmond and his hopeful, visionary, confidence boosting SNP). That’s reflected in the fact the pro Indy bump is now ten years older. Those coming behind who have no memory of indyref are no more likely to be pro Indy than the 65+ group as they’ve had no reason to be. In fact, the current SNP’s relentless attacking of the pro Indy movement and re-writing of history is more likely to turn them off. But then I suspect the current SNP leadership know that fine well and trashing independence is their aim. I will never, ever forgive these fuckers as long as I live.

    81. Duncan Clark says:

      In the same way she took breaks to extend her time giving ‘evidence’ to the mock investigation, she has been hanging on to be there longer than AS. Whether this provides her with some gratification, or somehow justifies her incompetence, is for history to unpick.

      Has she plans to attend Hearts games to say she is a bigger jambo than him?

    82. twathater says:

      I wrote this comment over on Barrhead boys blog the other day

      RODDY you have been vociferous about the absolute necessity of a peoples assembly or whatever you want to call it , Alex Salmond agreed that one was desired and needed , the only fly in the ointment was who the membership would be , surely it would be within the realms of the OTHER REAL independence parties to agree to approach esteemed and recognised independence supporters like bloggers and activists , professionals from different disciplines, e.g. Prof Alf Baird , Grousebeater Gareth Wardell , yourself , Iain Lawson , Sara Salyers and many other examples of true patriots and CREATE an assembly that sturgeon will find it difficult not to recognise , and even if she does it will create a momentum and generate publicity , interest and support from who knows where

      Roddy responded

      Barrheadboy says:
      11 April 2022 at 8:37 pm

      You really must watch next weekends Prism. That is all I am prepared to say tonight!?????

      SO hopefully there are some positive moves afoot , that would be nice EH Breeks , so don’t miss BB’s the PRISM

    83. Breeks says:

      Duncan Clark says:
      14 April, 2022 at 12:55 am

      ….she has been hanging on to be there longer than AS. Whether this provides her with some gratification, or somehow justifies her incompetence, is for history to unpick.

      I’m pretty sure whatever Sturgeon is remembered for, it will not be the length of her time in office.

      twathater says:
      14 April, 2022 at 3:20 am

      ….SO hopefully there are some positive moves afoot , that would be nice EH Breeks , so don’t miss BB’s the PRISM

      Absolutely. I don’t think the Scottish Sovereignty Research Group has been idle, and without reading too much into it, I found Alex Salmond’s comments about Independence becoming separated from Scottish Government quite tantalising too… Just hope I’m not getting my hopes up too early… It might just be he’s totally exasperated by Sturgeon’s incompetence.

      https://archive.ph/GdVrr

      It might be a little kite flying… but I dunno. It feels like something is building… and personally, I hope it’s Constitution related… It is loooong overdue.

    84. robertknight says:

      As I’ve no ALBA candidate in my area, I’ll be doing the following…

      Drawing a box at the foot of the ballot paper, placing an X in the box, then writing “ALBA PARTY” next to that box.

      Who says you can’t vote ALBA just because there isn’t a candidate!

      Hopefully those with the yellow/black badges at the count will see it in the pile of spoiled ballots and appreciate the sentiment behind it… GIRFUY Sturgeon’s SNP!

    85. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      13 April, 2022 at 8:41 pm

      @Pubes 8:24

      “Some are highly ambititious athletes who will do anything to win”

      Wondering at the “tit” you inserted in the middle of “ambitious”.

      A mistake? Or, considering the subject, a subtle joke?

      I can see John Main has no interest in women’s concerns about GRA/self id.

      Sturgeon says complaints not valid. John Main says ‘you’ve made a typo.

      If you are not interested in women’s concerns about GRA/Self id it would suggest you are not seriously interested in Scottish Independence

      John Main is just a flame-baiter who kids on he is a supporter of independence. He’s more interested in Ukraine than he is in Scotand.

      WOMEN ARE VERY ANGRY AND NOT INCLINED TO TAKE PART IN ANY CAMPAIGN THAT DOESN’T CARE ABOUT THEM.

      If you don’t respect my sex don’t expect my X and that includes for Independence.
      Sturgeon isn’t your only problem.

      I’m wondering based on Chas’ definition of a transwoman if perhaps there are a lot of people very ill-informed about GRA/self id. Stu did try to educate but gave up ‘cos people didn’t want to know.

    86. Ruby says:

      robertknight says:
      14 April, 2022 at 5:07 am

      As I’ve no ALBA candidate in my area, I’ll be doing the following…

      I do have an ALBA candidate in my area but I’m waiting to see what happens vis a vis Craig Murray.

    87. Robert Hughes says:

      Daisy Walker

      ” Project Fear was bullshit on steroids… Project ‘England First… sorry Britain’… is the real deal. We win or we lose, there’s nothing in between now, and there is no more time for ‘ca’canny’.”

      FACT ! And why we should be marshalling every option open to us – including that proposed by the SSRG : about which ……

      Twathater n Breeks aye , that pending Prism sounds * interesting * ; if it’s what we think it is eg Constitution- related we can expect the usual naysayers chorus of * ye cannae dae that * * vast majority of blah blah pooh pooh yawn yawn * . Remarkable how we’re always being told what we can and can’t do , even by those – ostensibly – on our own side . As if we have a * vast * array of options and infinite time .

      We have neither and should be using everything we DO have to further our cause .

      O/T . Twathater . I’ve not been able to comment on YFS for a week or so , no idea why : spoke with Iain about it and he’s at a loss too . Just wanted to say I saw your comment about not commenting there anymore and hope you will reconsider that statement . Like you , I tend to write as I speak eg in the demotic of my Glasgow Working Class culture , sweary words n’all , but out of respect for Iain’s wishes manage to refrain from using * bad * language . A small price for the capacity to be part of whatever conversation is taking place there I reckon 🙂

    88. Effigy says:

      I’m looking to gather woman’s clothes in great quantity to assist asylum seekers crossing
      the Channel.

      It’s seems the fascist Tory party plan to send all males to Rwanda if they make it across.

      Now if those males can arrive in a nice skirt, blouse and a cheeky wee pair of size 9 sling backs and declare themselves Trans- Bob is your Aunty and they can stay!

      Would Rwanda take Boris, Rishi and Pattel?

    89. John Main says:

      @Pubes 14 April, 2022 at 7:35 am

      “John Main is just a flame-baiter who kids on he is a supporter of independence. He’s more interested in Ukraine than he is in Scotand”

      Hey Pubes, you’re right again. I’ve never heard of the place. Where is it?

    90. gregor says:

      SNP (2019): The SNP, not Labour, is the real radical and progressive party

      https://archive.ph/WJcmh

      Progressive:

      “Progressive ideas or systems are new and modern, encouraging change in society or in the way that things are done.”

      “There’s been a progressive decline in the standard of living over the past few years.”

      “The last few months have seen the progressive meltdown of the country’s political system.”

      https://archive.ph/hIUnM

      HeraldScot (24/03/2022): Nicola Sturgeon ‘failing to help ‘those most in need’ to mitigate cost-of-living crisis:

      First Minister said: “There is a wave of human misery being experienced right now. It’s only going to get worse”…”:

      https://archive.ph/xvjlO

    91. Mark Boyle says:

      I see the Rangers propaganda rag, The Herald, has its soap dodging columnist back pedalling on his trans views somewhat in line with his old SWP affiliations (ie. intimidate and beat up anyone disagreeing with us).

      Ever get the feeling some realise they’re the ones shortly going to be on the wrong side of history as more and more people have quite enough of these vicious little bullies, and are desperate to extricate themselves from the mess they helped create in the first place?

    92. PB says:

      Sturgeon’s attempt of being noticed by the WEF like her ‘best international practice’ heroes, WEF Young World Leaders Trudeau and Ardern, going really well then.

      In Sturgeon’s Independent Scotland we will own nothing (because she sold it all beforehand) and we will be happy (because she tells us to be)…

    93. Grouser says:

      Greetings to all Independence supporters.
      I notice Susan Aitken, SNP leader, Glasgow Council, has virtually thrown in the towel on the council elections. She said if the SNP ‘lose’ the election she will resign as leader of the SNP on the Council. What leader or candidate in their right minds talks about defeat before a single ballot has been cast?
      At the last council election I was an SNP activist and I said at the time that I did not think the SNP were running a campaign aimed at winning control of any council. I think the same thing this time around as well.
      The SNP will be last in any list of Independence candidates as I vote till I boak.

    94. Mia says:

      @John Main,

      May I politely ask why you insist in using the derogatory term “Pubes” when referring to Ruby’s comments?

      If you were trying to be funny, let me tell you that you are not.

      On the contrary. Considering Ruby’s subject of discussion and the current toxic climate engineered by the ill-advised decision of this government to progress against the public interest with the erosion of women’s rights, your transforming Ruby’s acronym into “pubes” comes across either as yet another seemingly misogynist attempt to undermine a woman’s credibility or as apparent prejudicial bullying. Both equally toxic in my eyes.

      Let me tell you that, as a woman with the uttermost disgust for the ill advised decisions and actions of the SNP that may result in the erosion of my rights as a female an that might put the safety of the children in my family risk, the only thing you appear to be undermining in my eyes by deliberately transforming Ruby’s acronym into what out of context is perceived as derogatory, is your own credibility as debater, the validity of your argument, your intentions hidden behind using a derogatory acronym to dismiss another contributor and your judgement when choosing your words.

      Readers of this blog are well aware that gaslighting and Ad hominem are the tools of last resource often deployed by those who are aware they lack credible arguments to defend their side of the matter under discussion, so they resort to attack the person to shut down debate before the weakness of their side becomes so obvious that damages irreversibly their cause.

      Using a derogatory term when referring to somebody else you do not agree with is in my eyes a form of ad hominem. It is a way of recognising you know your argument is weak.

      It has been evident for quite some time now that when many political activists realise they reach the point where their lack of credible arguments has become too obvious, so they cannot progress the discussion without exposing the weakness of their side of the debate, they immediately deploy the damage limitation strategy. This is often in the form of taking the exit route by shutting down debate using ad hominem and gaslighting the opposition into silence.

      “Trans” activists do this all the time by using the terms “Terf” or “transphobe” to bully those who have the audacity to question their weak arguments into silence.

      These gaslighting and emotional blackmailing tactics have been so, so abused of late in the political arena that they have become far too obvious to be missed.

      I thought it would be useful for you to realise how your weak attempt at gaslighting was being perceived, so maybe you could focus on strengthening your arguments to defend your position of the debate instead. Personally, I think the debate would be strengthened and made much more interesting by having the opportunity to read better arguments for both sides of the discussion rather than by being bored with derogatory terms.

      But if you don’t find my advice useful, please ignore it and carry on. My response will be that of skipping your comment while reading others’.

      I wish you a nice day.

    95. Mark Boyle says:

      @Mia.

      Much as I agree with your sentiment (the “Pubes” thing is toe-curling), it took you 531 words and 12 paragraphs to say what one sentence would equally have achieved:

      eg. “@ John Main: calling Ruby “Pubes” is exactly the sort of demeaning sexist shittiness inTransigents display towards dissenting women which gets Ruby so riled in the first place – quit it!”

    96. P says:

      Thanks Stu
      You continue to write the best blog – interesting, simple and to the point.
      No flowery language or irritating literary tricks!

    97. Ron Maclean says:

      @ Mia 10:21 am

      Well said and thank you.

      For too long this site has been up against attacks from those who aspire to become fully assimilated into the UK governing system. They’re piqued as they realise that will never be allowed. The best they can hope for is to become ranking members of the native elite where they can consolidate their assumptions and prejudices.

      They all have something in common – too much to talk about and too little to say.

    98. Effigy says:

      Listening on LBC how great the British government and people have been in welcoming people from all corners of the world?

      Really!

      Westminster was the government when they supported the Highland clearances, watch one million die of starvation in Ireland, created the first detention camps in South Africa where women and children were starved to death or introduced to disease to kill them quicker.

      The government who used the UDA to kill people suspected of being IRA members,
      who tied dissenting Indians to cannons before firing and who used Aboriginals as target practice as they were forced to run across fields.

      Do you remember the No Blacks or Irish signs in guest houses back in the 60’s or perhaps the treatment of the Windrush Families expelled after working here for 40-50 years.

      The Rwanda situation is completely unpalatable but I’ll be damned if I can see Great in Britain

    99. Effigy says:

      Damn foreigners!

      There are a few that I’d be happy to give Rwandan passports to-

      Boris- Turkey in origin
      Rishi – Indian
      Patel- Indian
      Kwarteng – Ghana
      Javid- Pakistan
      Zahwa – Iraqi

      These people certainly put up a case for keeping foreigners out!

    100. Ian McCubbin says:

      Mark Boyle says,
      Alba, ISP and the rest of the 57 varieties of “alternative” are a major part of the problem, not the solution, a squabbling array of tinpot caesars

      If they are then it’s by inexperience, where in SNPs actions by design of dancing Carrots and lying to the electorate they keep a niave cabal.
      Politics only changes when and where groups come togther and attempt change. Instead of decrying activists for attempting to unseat the SNP we should be supportive and give them a chance.
      What are your positive suggestions?

    101. Mia says:

      @ Mark Boyle.

      Thank you for your feedback.

      I should add that linking “ad hominem”, pejorative bullying and gaslighting exclusively to the “trans” debate is, in my view, short-sighted.

      That is why I think your summary of my comment failed to grasp what I was trying to convey. Conciseness is great, but if on its pursuit you leave behind the main message you are trying to send, then it becomes futile.

      Gaslighting, pejorative bullying and ad hominem are techniques extensively used against the yes movement to demoralise us and to set doubts in our conviction that an independent country is the natural and best option for Scotland.

      Do you remember all those times we were called “racist” by senior Labour figures or “separatists” by tory brexiteers for wanting Scotland’s independence? Well, those are also examples of the same technique being used on us.

      These are the exact same techniques that have pretty much rendered the term “antisemite” meaningless nowadays because it has been extensively and un-ethically abused out of context by unprincipled and mediocre debaters to silence dissent.

      Ad hominem, gaslighting and pejorative bullying are endemic to the political environment. Often they replace negotiation and valid, convincing arguments as the orthodox way of bringing people on your side of the debate. And this is further proof that the inexplicable urgency of this “trans” activism in Scotland, at a time when we should all be focusing towards effecting an independence that has been within our reach since 8th May 2015, is nothing but psyops, a tool for some political agenda.

      The only difference in the strategy of deception of the yes movement this time, is the scale of the deception: a tiny minority is being used as a trojan horse to alienate as much as half of the population in Scotland. This industrial scale approach became necessary the moment the support for independence was hoovering close to 50% and the majority of the population of Scotland’s view moved from independence being something impossible to something inevitable. Divide and conquer at its best.

      I bet many unscrupulous individuals in political strategists around the world are watching Scotland with great interest to see if this deception strategy succeeds in derailing Scotland’s independence, so they could apply it to their own country’s “inconveniences”.

      This “trans-activism” sponsored by the SNP should be seen for what it is: part of a wider strategy designed to distract us from the fact the SNP has had 3 majorities in Westminster and therefore it should have declared independence already.

    102. John Main says:

      @Mia – 14 April, 2022 at 10:21 am

      “May I politely ask why you insist in using the derogatory term “Pubes” when referring to Ruby’s comments?”

      Of course, and I apologise in advance for my quote from Ruby’s intemperate language:

      “John Main is Thick as Fuck” – that was one of Ruby’s. There have been others, directed to me and to other posters. Goose, sauce, gander – there’s a saying about it.

      “If you were trying to be funny, let me tell you that you are not.”

      Sez you, Mia 🙂

      I take on board your suggestion that we should all up our game. It would be hypocritical if I didn’t, as I have already posted to that effect. I would much prefer not to be referred to as “Nazi scum” in future, should I post anything supportive of Ukraine. BTW, that was not one of Ruby’s.

      There have always been a lot of robust exchanges of views on here. Being called a tosser, or being told to fuck off, is not unknown to some of the contributors. It seems strange to me that some people may not have the strength to be able to deal with this.

      Tell you what though, I am not happy that these rules should be selectively applied. Can we expect you to jump in every time in future somebody else transgresses? Just for the sake of consistency?

      And can we also drop the gender-based selective outrage? Given the climate of gender fluidity, and the fact that most of the posters here do so more or less anonymously under pseudonyms, it is manifestly ludicrous to extend a “protected characteristic” status to somebody who just happens to post under a moniker typically assumed to represent a specific sex. Or gender, I can’t be bothered right now to deal with the difference.

      You have a nice day too.

    103. Mark Boyle says:

      @Mia

      And here you go again, 417 words and ten paragraphs.

      I’m sorry, but putting the smallest amount of premise into the largest number of words is counter productive (people will just “meh, TL:DR!”) … unless you’re intending a career in the Liberal Democrats.

    104. John Main says:

      @Effigy 14 April, 2022 at 11:36 am

      “Listening on LBC how great the British government and people have been in welcoming people from all corners of the world?

      Really!”

      Do you see different TV channels to me then, Effigy?

      I can’t turn on the TV (or the radio) without almost immediately encountering people who have been welcomed from all corners of the world.

      The “Rwanda situation” may or may not be completely unpalatable, but it arises from the fact that hundreds of people daily (600 yesterday, some days in excess of 1000), risk their lives to cross The Channel to get to the UK.

      Strange how that message, of how bad things are in the UK, is not getting out. Just imagine, if it were true, the cross-Channel traffic would be stopped overnight just by telling the migrants how bad it is here.

      I guess it’s not true then.

    105. Ruby says:

      I don’t care what John Main or Andy Ellis call me as I have zero respect for either of them.

      However out of the goodness of my heart I did advice them that readers may be judging them due to what they write more than they are me. They didn’t listen.

      I do not have tourettes but if I did I would be deeply hurt by someone making fun of my disability. As it stands I am offended on behalf of those who have tourettes. A partner/parent of someone with tourettes would be well justified in doing a ‘Will Smith ‘ and giving ‘that cunt Ellis’ a good whack in the jaw.

      The thing that offended my most in the last week is being referred to as a cister while the man in the dress called himself & other men in dresses sisters.

      He said “Support your sisters and not just your cisters.”

      Absolutely @#$%&! that!

      I have never been this angry!. I’m ragin’!

      Mark Boyle says:
      (the “Pubes” thing is toe-curling)

      I agree Mark but it doesn’t offend me it just lets me know quite a lot about John Main.

      Thanks Mia for your support. Good to see you back here!

    106. Effigy says:

      If the U.K. government and fellow Tory donor companies have made fortunes selling weapons and support services to the likes of Saudi Arabia who aim to wipe out the people of Yemen
      then the people of Yemen who find their family, home, job and hospital bombed out of recognition then coming to the U.K. under Boris is the lesser of 2 evils.

      Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Iraq thanks to Westminster send thousands in this direction looking
      for security if nothing else.

      As long as they don’t promote the Truth Like Assange or Craig Murray they should be safe!

    107. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      14 April, 2022 at 12:04 pm

      “John Main is Thick as Fuck” – that was one of Ruby’s.

      I still stand by that.

    108. Mia says:

      “Gender fluidity”

      I apologise for my ignorance. I do not understand what the concept of gender fluidity means when applied to the human beings. In my own experience, how feminine or masculine you are does not change over time once you become an adult. Therefore I cannot see it as fluid.

      The only people on whom I have ever seen anything resembling “gender fluidity” are those with a mental health problem that leads them to say today they are a woman and demand to be treated as a woman, despite being a male and happy to wear a beard, and three months later they decided they are no longer a woman so they demand to be treated as a man, only for, a few months later to change again and start again the cycle. These people are troubled and need help that goes beyond the ability to self-id. But their situation is not the norm and cannot be treated as the norm. It is the exception and therefore it should be treated and seen as the exception.

      I might be wrong, but I think the term you are seeking is not fluidity as such, but rather continuity, meaning a dual gender terminology has become insufficient to accurately incorporate the degrees of gender present in reality. A dual terminology may imply very clear boundaries that may not really exist.

      To be clear, I see gender as one thing and sex as a completely different one. That is not to say the people I mentioned above and that evidently have mental health problems do not see themselves as a woman or as a man at the times they claim they do. I am sure they do, what I do not believe their personal situation is enough to claim gender fluidity is the norm for everybody else.

      “it is manifestly ludicrous to extend a “protected characteristic” status to somebody who just happens to post under a moniker typically assumed to represent a specific sex”

      I couldn’t disagree more. Precisely because you don’t know if that person is female you cannot take the risk of potentially breach that protected characteristic by dishing misogyny as if it was the accepted norm.

      It is very much a question of what is more damaging in the bigger picture, if missing an opportunity to land an insult to a male or risking breaching a protected characteristic because you are in fact insulting a female. I am sure you will agree with me that it is the second.

      I think normalising misogyny as the default response to an insult in a blog forum because you cannot possibly know the identity of the person you are responding to is dangerous. It is dangerous because female names are, by default, associated to women, so if you are normalising the use of misogyny against female names, then in the big picture and the long term you might be normalising using misogyny against women in general.

      Because where do we go from here? To demand all women in this forum to include our “pronouns” next to our moniker to avoid being the target of misogyny because it may be seen by some males as fair game if we do not state clearly that we are female?

      Where did the idea that we have to consider everybody a male as a default when not knowing the person’s identity even if they are using female names, come from? Where is the idea that it is women who have to be constantly justifying themselves come from?

      I am sorry but I do not think being insulted by someone gives you the right to use misogyny as the default response. Call them out on their own terms, and in as strong terms as you see fit and the blog owner permits you to do, by all means, but please do not undermine our sex and do not think for a second that misogyny as the default approach in a heated forum conversation is, and ever will be perceived, as acceptable.

      Thank you for your understanding.

    109. James Che. says:

      Rev stu. Nice to see you in driver seat again, you must have a magnetic personality
      For with you many others have returned.
      Which is lovely to see.

      Mr Andy wots ‘is” name, and his etel have ensured that Sottish voices have been chased off you’re site by his sheep dogs,
      while he as maneger has made a genuine effort to guide and forcefully coral the rest of the Yes movement down abusive blind allies.
      Its bin a sir ficht,
      Your absence has been sorely missed.
      We love the new wee blue book

    110. Mark Boyle says:

      Ian McCubbin says: 14 April, 2022 at 11:46 am

      Mark Boyle says,
      Alba, ISP and the rest of the 57 varieties of “alternative” are a major part of the problem, not the solution, a squabbling array of tinpot caesars

      If they are then it’s by inexperience, where in SNPs actions by design of dancing Carrots and lying to the electorate they keep a niave cabal.

      Politics only changes when and where groups come togther and attempt change. Instead of decrying activists for attempting to unseat the SNP we should be supportive and give them a chance.
      What are your positive suggestions?

      “Inexperience?” A large chunk of these at the higher end of the “alternative independence movement” food chain are ex-SNP, high office bearers or being preened for such. For various reasons, each fell out with the party – to be blunt damned few on “ideological” grounds.

      Thereby hangs their very fatal flaw with the electorate – they are “tainted goods”, Yet each shows little public drive to remedy this. Like Jim Sillars, they still appear under the absurd impression their past glories makes them still names to conjour, the begging question, “yes, but what as?” ignored.

      Since you asked the rhetorical “well wot’s your big idea, smart arse?” to another electorate humiliation awaiting come Maytime, it would be this:

      1. Salmond, Sheridan, Walker and their acolytes (I’d say Fox, but the Scottish Socialist Party have proved just a club for middle class slum tourists and those who fetish “working-classness” rather than serious politicos) dry their tears, swallow their pride and agree to join forces, combine their talents, and to play to each of their strengths.

      2. Rather than one leader – and all the ego problems it brings – they have several speakers, speaking on the behalf of a directorate elected by one member, one vote. They agree to disagree on ALL ELSE bar the primacy of their focus: Scottish independence. This affords them the very flexibility the SNP is unwilling (and themselves, if they were honest) to tolerate, but at the same time disuading the riding of hobby horses off in directions not towards the one goal.

      3. Those on said Directorate are expected to put in more of a shift than ordinary members – no endless “my Granny’s budgie’s sick” excuses, no people padding out the exec to be Salmond/Sheridan/Walker’s extra proxy vote in practice. Activists, not yaktivists, who will inspire the rest to commit to the cause.

      4. Outside groups would not allowed to “affiliate” to it, either you join or GYTF – thus avoiding the scrapes certain other “alliances” have had in the past …

      5. Strict membership vetting. No case history self serving fruitloops. Ever. No Peter Dow/Sean Clerkin types. No matter how much tempted “oh well, needs must …” for “foot soldiers”, and no matter how much Salmond, Sheridan or Walker scream “but that’s my bestie you’ve banned! Waaaaah!” Learn where Jeremy Corbyn did not.

      Finally (gets on hard hat for inevitable backlash …)

      6. The name of the party would be the Independence for Scotland Party, or the Independent Scotland Party if all going under one of their existing names is too much for certain egos to handle. It tells ordinary Joe Public exactly what the party is supposed to be about without the bullshit or trying to be pretentious. No names repugnent to those allergic to anything remotely Gaelic. No 1970s Boys Comic type names. You’re campaigning for independence, not to take a bloody ring to Mount Doom.

      And on the day anything like the above EVER happens, the Red Arrows will take to the skies in their new fleet of Mangalitzas.

      For we can all run up “positive suggestions” until we’re tartan in the face. Those proffering themselves as Scottish nationalism’s saviours from Sturgeon don’t care. They’ve shown too often it’s “their way or go away”. For a while now I’ve been thinking perhaps they were as much part of the problem as Sturgeon. Now I’m sadly even more resigned to the feeling. This isn’t being negative, just being honest.

      (And yes, this post IS far too bloody long, but you did ask, Ian).

    111. John Main says:

      @Ruby says 14 April, 2022 at 1:05 pm

      “John Main is Thick as Fuck … I still stand by that”

      @Mia says 14 April, 2022 at 1:11 pm

      “It is very much a question of what is more damaging in the bigger picture, if missing an opportunity to land an insult to a male or risking breaching a protected characteristic because you are in fact insulting a female. I am sure you will agree with me that it is the second”

      I think that is clear enough Mia. Ruby can post that I am as thick as fuck to her heart’s content. I can’t return in kind, because Ruby is a girl’s name.

      And because Ruby is a girl’s name, Ruby is also excused the “deal with the arguments and don’t go ad hominem” type of censorship. Or is that me being TAF again?

      So, I will leave this one by suggesting that anybody who wishes to take it further, types “who is ruby in discworld” into Google.

      The mind will boggle. Probably. But don’t blame me. Take it up with Google.

    112. Mia says:

      @John Main

      “Ruby can post that I am as thick as fuck to her heart’s content”

      And you can use the exact same expression back to her if the blog owner permits you to. What you cannot do is to expect that such comment signifies a green light for anybody to use misogyny. Misogyny, being directed to a female name or to a female person, is not an entitlement under any circumstance.

      Did that make the situation a little bit clearer, perhaps?

    113. James Che. says:

      Breeks.

      While I think as many others do, it is a excellent new corse to charter away from the snp government,
      We must retain vigilance in the sovereignty of the Scottish people at the head of that new direction.

      My biggest direct argument i ever had with the new mods in the snp and old labour snp,
      Was that ( they) said sovereignty should lie with the Scottish parliament,

      This dangerous path would not hold an iota of difference between us an Westminsters view of itself.
      Where anything goes and laws are for the people not the politicians.

      People must alway be able to hold politicians genuinely accountable within the term they serve. Rather than afterwards.

      NS given mandates by the Scottish people, along with their trans- issues and the ideological energy climate change from the green goblins simple run roughshod over the Scottish people.

      We have to approach politics very differently for a newly independent Scotland, certainly reverse the top down power struggle structure,
      Or where people in Scotland automatically have access to the legal system whereby if a politician makes a promise or declaration of intent in their manifesto.
      They are held to it by the people.

      The vow, Brexit and trade, food and fuel supplies, the mandates the scottish people gave The SNP, are good examples of politicians living of hot air promises.
      A politician should only complete his/ her term in office if they do what they promised by at least half way through.

      The NS never even put in the ground work for preparing Scotland for independence and money is missing from the funds.
      In my world the people would have been able to take her to court,
      The white wash would never have happened with CM, AS or with the missing independence funds.

      People sovereignty , Not politicians or government.

    114. Ian McCubbin says:

      Mark Boyle,

      Thanks for answering my question on positivity for the future of Independence . ISP seems to me more open and focused on independence than Alba for the reasons you suggest.

    115. Ebok says:

      red sunset says:
      13 April, 2022 at 8:17 pm

      ‘Is anyone producing a 1-2-3 voting guide for this election?’

      There is no guide in that sense, red, STV is NOT like D’Hondt: there is NO second vote.

      The only time the vote transfer is wholly meaningful is if your candidate is eliminated. This happens when none of the (remaining) candidates has reached the quota – the number of votes to guarantee election – when the one with the fewest votes is eliminated.
      It is at this point the ‘transfer’ takes place, but only if you have taken the option when voting to transfer your vote to a second candidate, but it is not a second vote: it is as if your preferred and eliminated candidate was NOT on the ballot paper at all, and you are instead choosing to give your first (and only) vote to one of the others.

      There is a small percentage transfer of excess votes from elected candidates reaching the quota, but these are largely meaningless.

      So the 1-2-3 voting ‘guide’ is: 1) positive voting for first/subsequent choices, those you really want to be elected 2) negative voting, where you haven’t any candidate worthy of your vote, but decide to vote for ‘anyone but’ 3) not voting or spoiling.

      STV is a complicated electoral system, yet for those who favour PR, the outcome in terms of percentage of seats won is surprisingly close to the actual vote. For this reason, it will never be adopted at WM. That doesn’t make PR better, just different.

      As far as the outcome of this election goes, there is no benefit in not indicating second or third choices, but the deficit of authentic candidates will, in all too many cases, render second choices pointless.

      The only real point of interest is going to be the performance of the small band of ALBA candidates. Unless they do well, where does ALBA and the Independence movement go from here? The stakes couldn’t be higher.

    116. Ebok says:

      Daisy Walker says:
      13 April, 2022 at 3:51 pm

      ‘Great to see the Rev back’

      And you too Daisy. And Mia.
      Stay awhile, it’s been pretty dire here of late.

    117. James Che. says:

      Chas.

      Always suspicious of someone who does not want the Scottish people to talk about the treaty of the union.

      Common sense , logic and intelligence cannot be separated.and therefor the political ties of that treaty.

      A wee reminder as to why Scotland is politically fighting for its countries independence.
      Is that the 300 year old treaty of the union says we are unable to be a separate free country.

      The Scottish people must discuss it, I have no doubt that parts of England discuss it.
      Especially those trying to invent a new updated version as they are at present.

      If you can not see the connection, there is very little we can say or do for you at this point in time.

    118. James Che. says:

      Ebok,Daisy, Mia, and many others, it is nice to see you all back 🙂

    119. Craig P says:

      Iain Blackford on the radio the other day, banging on about ‘the country’. He meant the UK. Tells you a lot about the SNP’s current mindset.

    120. Chas says:

      James Che

      Not surprisingly, the usual pile of mince from your goodself.
      You can discuss The Treaty of the Union, Grand Scottish Constitution etc etc with like minded individuals until the cows come home and I will tell you the difference it will make. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
      I have said it before and will say it again, the only way change will happen in Scotland is via the Ballot Box.
      Dream on James and discuss it ad nausem.

    121. Chas says:

      James Che

      Not surprisingly, the usual pile of mince from your goodself.
      You can discuss The Treaty of the Union, Grand Scottish Constitution etc etc with like minded individuals until the cows come home and I will tell you the difference it will make. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
      I have said it before and will say it again, the only way change will happen in Scotland is via the Ballot Box.
      Dream on James and discuss it ad nauseum.

    122. Mia says:

      “Always suspicious of someone who does not want the Scottish people to talk about the treaty of the union”

      Indeed.

      Personally I think there is a very good reason why they may not want to speak about the treaty of union much, James. And that is because it puts a rather large question mark over the preconceived idea that the only way Scotland can become independent is by secession from the United Kingdom, and therefore with consent from Westminster as the only “sovereign” and main legislative parliament of the UK.

      Secession from a bigger state implies the larger chunk that remains becomes the continuator state with all the perks that come with it. The smaller one seceding exits with nothing other than the crumbs the larger part is prepared to share.

      The Treaty of union could offer a completely different perspective. One where Scotland does not need seceding from a state to restore its statehood, but actually it can unilaterally terminating the state it currently is part of.

      In such scenario there would be 2 successor states and the goodies and perks from the previous state are up for division between the two new states. Some of those lovely goodies include all the trade deals England representatives have been cutting on behalf of the UK with Australia, New Zealand, etc recently, as of course would include other goodies like the seats in international forums like NATO or the UK for example. Needless to say that it would also include all the embassies and all gubernamental. legislative and the admnistrative structures of the state and civil service. It would also keep the Bank of England, which may be called Bank of England but for quite significant amount of time, it has been the Bank of the UK.

      Needless to say that unilaterally repealing the treaty of union and Act of Union with England would give Scotland a much bigger say in the negotiations of partition of assets. This is not to say that Scotland could not happily agree for the Kingdom of England to be the continuator state of the UK, but under this perspective it could not be seen by the kingdom of England as its entitlement but rather as a concession from Scotland which will demand a parallel concession favorable to Scotland in return.

      It is therefore in the best interest of the Kingdom of England for the people of Scotland to continue believing the only route for Scotland to become independent is secession, which of course keeps Westminster as the superior parliament and with all the voice and the first choice of assets at all times.

      This is, in my opinion, the real reason why the Scotland Act includes the “superiority” and “parliamentary sovereignty” of Westminster that England MPs and unionist Scottish ones keep parroting.

      There is an insistence in some quarters that the Act of union with England can only be repealed by Westminster. Personally I question that because Westminster has a huge majority of England MPs so it would be at all practical effects England repealing both Acts. I am not sure that could be construed as “Scotland” repealing the Act of Union with England.

      I can totally understand Westminster being able to repeal its own power to act as the parliament of the UK, but I am not convinced England MPs can repeal an Act of union with England passed exclusively by Scottish MPs in 1706, particularly if the people of Scotland no longer recognises the legitimacy of Westminster to continue acting on behalf of Scotland.

      At the time the Scotland Act was written there was huge fear from some quarters that a Parliament in Scotland would open the door for the repeal of the Act of Union with England in that parliament. This is clear from the debates in Westminster at that time and also from previous debates about Home Rule for Scotland. Some of the MPs/Lords couldn’t even bring themselves to call Holyrood Scotland’s Parliament. They insisted in calling it Assembly to seemingly establish in the minds of the people of Scotland, the difference.

    123. Confused says:

      “don’t bother reading the contract – just sign it”

      what kind of muppet would fall for that one?

      what kind of idiot would not claim on an insurance policy??

      what kind of cringing forelock tugger would refuse to exercise the legal rights he has???

      its just words and stuff in old documents – DONT READ IT

    124. Ruby says:

      John Main says:

      So, I will leave this one by suggesting that anybody who wishes to take it further, types “who is ruby in discworld” into Google.

      The mind will boggle. Probably. But don’t blame me. Take it up with Google.

      What next will I be called “Discworld Rubes with the Pubes”

      I don’t think the term ‘pubes’ is particularly mysogenistic it is just totally
      puerile it’s on a par with calling someone a poo!

      I wonder how long Mia will take to find out just how intelligent you are?

    125. Breeks says:

      James Che. says:
      14 April, 2022 at 2:17 pm

      ….In my world the people would have been able to take her to court,
      The white wash would never have happened with CM, AS or with the missing independence funds.

      People sovereignty , Not politicians or government.

      There is nothing faulty or inadequate about Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty. The paperwork is all in order.

      The problem Scotland has, is the lack of a codified mechanism which allows the sovereign people to wield their sovereignty, even denying them the utility of sovereign expression.

      Add to that the grievous impropriety of a colonial usurper of Scotland’s sovereign rights, namely Westminster, and Westminster’s mini-me Holyrood, who willfully muddy the Constitutional waters, exploit the deliberate obfuscation, and dare to presume it is they who exercise sovereignty over Scotland.

      Scotland must resurrect or reinvent the Constitutional machinery which reconnects the Scottish people with their sovereign birth right, and in that process, ejects the troop of political charlatans, opportunists and colonial usurpers in Westminster and Holyrood, and removes them from the lawful covenant between a Sovereign people and their Nation’s Constitution.

      It is not a referendum we need. A Constitutional audit or test case, resulting in the simple and straightforward recognition of Scotland’s legitimate Constitutional integrity will suffice, unadulterated by the contrived fallacies and baseless unwritten conventions of the Union.

      That modest objective should more than suffice to bring this dreadful Union, and blight upon Scotland, to it’s long overdue conclusion.

      Save the democracy for the ratification plebiscite we Scots alone will have, once the Union is dead.

    126. Ruby says:

      “Always suspicious of someone who does not want the Scottish people to talk about the treaty of the union”

      That’s Chas. Chas is another flamebaiter part of the Andy Ellis John Main claque.

      Keep in mind Chas thinks everyone self-idying as a woman is just a gay man who can’t live with his homosexuality.

      He doesn’t post often he spends most of his day at the ‘Dinosaurs Golf Club’ before he goes home where her indoors is expected to have his tea on the table as soon as he turns into the drive.

      He’s called me a few names in the past. I can’t remember what they were but nothing as puerile as poo or pubes.

    127. Saffron Robe says:

      Nicola Sturgeon has neither the competency nor integrity to lead an independent Scotland. She lacks the emotional intelligence, knowledge and breadth of vision to be a resolute and effective leader. Her tenure is marked as one of futility against, and acquiescence towards, English rule. She is entirely ignorant of Scottish history, Scotland’s constitutional status and the sacrifices made by our ancestors. Independence is today, as it always has been, a matter of life and death. Sturgeon poses no threat because she offers no resistance. Westminster has as much to fear from her as a snake fears a mouse. The Declaration of Arbroath reserves the right for us to remove from office anyone who fails to serve Scotland’s cause. There is no-one to whom this is more applicable than Sturgeon.

    128. Effigy says:

      Labour election leaflet thru the door with promises of £thousands for all.
      They have no way of funding it and no intention of trying but desperate votes will go for it.
      What else can people do when they know they cannot survive the sea of price increases.

      They are useless but they will take a lot of SNP seats with these whoppers!

    129. twathater says:

      @ Robert Hughes 7.50am yes Robert the prism thing could and hopefully will be interesting , re the comments situation I too are Glasgow , Govan and Easterhouse born and bred , as I posted to Iain I have great respect for him and other indy fighters for what they are currently doing and have previously done to take forward independence for Scotland, I have no interest in antagonising or disrespecting Iain but the language I use in describing politicians and corrupt liars is from the heart and I am sorry if it upsets people ,

      BUT what upsets me more is knowing these scumbags know the pain and misery they are DELIBERATELY inflicting on families with children , the disabled and OAP’S , YET they continue to do so whilst at the same time presenting themselves as caring compassionate people. I know my use of language and comments don’t agree or sit right with some but what these parasitical arsewipes are doing to people DOESN’T deserve the respect of nice language , as my elderly mother used to say and probably everyone else’s mother used to say ” sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me”

      I have no interest or patience in being diplomatic or respectful for people I despise or consider as users of others , too many people are suffering from the incompetence and greed of self serving scum we have to let them know our patience is at an end , and you can’t do that with flowery words

    130. North chiel says:

      Well said Mia & also “ saffron robe” @0514 pm

    131. James Che. says:

      Mia,
      The treaty of the union . is a conversation i recently had with a Alba leader.

      And westminster parliament did NOT succeed as sole owner of the treaty. ie) it is still a international treaty recognised as an agreed treaty between two countries, without which the Great British parliament cannot exist,

      Perhaps it is or may not be a case for either England or Scotland succeeding. But rather just splitting back to their original kingdoms, Realms / Countries.
      A simple alternative is to suspend or void the treaty of the union until The Great British Parliament can answer questions why
      1: it has presumed to be proved that Scotland is not the other half of that international 1707 treaty, according to law.

      The British parliament rests it whole Foundation, and what little written Constitution it has on the words of that very two country international Treaty from 1706/1707.

      Officially the English parliament closed it doors and ceased to exists before the new creation of the Great british parliament came into being.

      However Scotland did not permanently close its Parliament or cease to exist.
      Instead in, Scotland it suspended the Scottish Parliament, ( Sine Die )

      With the TATCIT acknowledgement of Westminster Parliament for over 300 years.

      When we question which country and its governance ceased officially to exist it was Englands.
      or which country would be a successor state it would have to be England.

      And not for us to try decide what England an Annexed Wales call them selves afterwards.

    132. James Che. says:

      Of course when England closed itself officially down before theTreaty of the union created The new Great British Parliament did that automatically and suddenly release Wales from it ties to the old English Parliament?

    133. John Main says:

      @Mia 14 April, 2022 at 4:05 pm

      “In such scenario there would be 2 successor states and the goodies and perks from the previous state are up for division between the two new states. Some of those lovely goodies include all the trade deals England representatives have been cutting on behalf of the UK with Australia, New Zealand, etc recently, as of course would include other goodies like the seats in international forums like NATO or the UK for example. Needless to say that it would also include all the embassies and all gubernamental. legislative and the admnistrative structures of the state and civil service. It would also keep the Bank of England, which may be called Bank of England but for quite significant amount of time, it has been the Bank of the UK”

      How would the goodies and perks be divvied up then, Mia?

      Split down the middle, proportioned by population, or proportioned by land area are 3 possible ways.

      Proportioned by GDP or tax yield is another way.

      Lastly, perhaps the existence of another two countries in the UK is being overlooked? Split into one quarter to Scotland, the other three quarters to the rUK is at least simple to understand.

      What’s your view?

    134. Robert Hughes says:

      Twathater @ 6.21

      As far as I’m concerned there’s no such thing as * bad * language , only language : it’s the intent behind the words that matters

      I’ve always found it funny how in parts of Scotland we’ve reversed the derogatory associations of the word ” cunt ” to make it – in some instances , complimentary : I’ve had the good fortune to meet some really ” great cunts ” in my life 🙂

      As you say , in the end it’s only words , sounds/vibrations in the air . They can burn ; but not kill .

      If you’ve read him you’ll have seen how people like James Kelman use the vernacular – the vulgar vulgate – to powerful effect . In his case not only to convey Realism , also to get inside the Scottish Working Class psyche , how we understand and relate to our environment through our own way of speaking , the language we use to express our thoughts . The thoughts themselves * made * of language

      * Bad * has nothing to do with it

    135. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      14 April, 2022 at 7:05 pm

      Lastly, perhaps the existence of another two countries in the UK is being overlooked? Split into one quarter to Scotland, the other three quarters to the rUK is at least simple to understand.

      What’s your view?

      If you think that the Kingdom of Scotland, via Scots law can demand, in effect, the stealing of bits of ‘English law’ & ‘NIrish law’ then you are a nidiot.

      The 3 crowns share all assets belong to ‘The Crown’, the divvy up is ‘easy’. Actuaries are wanking themselves stupid at the permuatations, probably.

      Any divorce will be painless and bloodless, because the monarch is the same fucking person.

      WM can threaten Scotland with loss of ‘The Firm’ all they want, but the Claim of Right Act 1689 isn’t theirs to interfere with, nor are the obligations of wearer of the ‘Crown of Scotland’.

      3 degrees – 60:60:60 – The people:The Crown:The Justiciary – 1:1:1

      4 ingredients.

      1. The Great Seal of Scotland.
      2. The Claim of Right Act 1689
      3. The nobile officium of the Court of Session
      4. The Scots

      My view, nidiot.

    136. Mia says:

      @John Main

      “Lastly, perhaps the existence of another two countries in the UK is being overlooked?”

      No, it has not been overlooked. When you talk about the Kingdom of England you include them both too. The two partners in the treaty were the Kingdoms of Scotland and England. Wales and Ireland entered the negotiation as anexes of the Kingdom of England. This means that it is the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England who have to split the goodies.

      “Split into one quarter to Scotland, the other three quarters to the rUK is at least simple to understand”

      Even simpler would be to split the goods 50:50, don’t you agree? At the end of the day it was a bipartite treaty of union.

      Giving Scotland 1/4 is spectacularly unfair to Scotland and you know it.

      Scotland’s landmass is 60% that of England therefore it should have infrastructure equally to 60% of that of England. It is not even close. Scotland has been made pay constantly a share of the costs of England’s far superior infrastructure and vanity projects, but we have not got the equivalent here. Personally I think Scotland should be compensated for that disproportion. This was meant to be a union of equals, not a convenience agreement for England to exploit its partner and use its assets to build its own infrastructure and fund its warmongering at the expense of Scotland’s.

      For instance, how many royal palaces, museums and monuments there are in England compared with Scotland and Scotland has had to pay a contribution for their maintenance? How many airports? Only London has more international airports that half of Scotland.

      Scotland’s coastline is larger than England’s, yet most ports are in England. That is also a part of infrastructure that needs to be seriously looked at and Scotland compensated for the lack of.

      The split should be done taking into account several things, for example population, landmass, distribution of infrastructure but also contribution to the Uk coffers. For instance, Scotland has contributed a disproportional part for its population since the oil was discovered. A quick look to the oil fund of Norway gives you an idea of the level of contribution that Scotland has been forced to do to the UK since the oil was discovered.

      Currently, we continue to contribute a disproportional part with our assets. For instance, how much has been risen with the licences sold for shale gas in Scotland? What about the astronomical charges that companies here have to pay for putting energy on the grid compared with England? What about the extra we have to pay to have things delivered here? How much electricity from renewables is Scotland pumping down south for free?

      All those things have to be taken into account, together with the damage the union has done to Scotland in terms of its population. The ratio of population Scotland:England has decreased progressively since 1707. On top of that, Scotland’s population is getting older and if it was not for immigration it would be decreasing. England does not have the same problem because it accummulates the wealth of the entire UK and has its hand constantly on the Uk purse. The demographics is a very good indicator of the disproportional benefit England has had compared with Scotland. Scotland should be compensated for that loss of population for the last 300 years.

      Another thing that needs to be taken into account is the level of debt generated by each kingdom over time. For example, currently Scotland has no deficit of trade in goods, while England’s is astronomical. Scotland has been paying a portion of England’s debt for quite some time. That needs to be taken into account.

      I am not a professional negotiator. I am sure a professional negotiator would think in 1000 other matters that have not even crossed my mind and that need to be negotiated and Scotland compensated for.

    137. John Main says:

      Mia 7:45 pm

      OK, so it’s not just divvying up the goodies and perks of today, there’s a wad of unpaid bills going back 300 years also.

      Not entirely sure 50:50 will cut it, not if you take the power of compound interest into account on Scotland’s side.

      But I asked the question in good faith. If your answer is “50:50” that’s cool. If your answer is “it’s complicated” that’s cool also.

    138. John Main says:

      @Scott 7:26

      If I understand the new moderation rules correctly, I think I am allowed to call you “nidiot” back.

      But you know what? I can’t be ersed.

      If as you say, the divvy up is easy, just tell us what it is. Make it simple for us nidiots.

      If you can’t be ersed, then just enjoy your evening.

    139. Mark Boyle says:

      Mia says:
      14 April, 2022 at 7:45 pm

      Scotland’s landmass is 60% that of England therefore it should have infrastructure equally to 60% of that of England. It is not even close. Scotland has been made pay constantly a share of the costs of England’s far superior infrastructure and vanity projects, but we have not got the equivalent here. Personally I think Scotland should be compensated for that disproportion.

      I’m sorry Mia, but this is remarkably silly.

      By your logic, the Isle of Wight (population @142 000) should have double the infrastructure as Glasgow City (population @636 000) because its landmass is twice the size (372 km² compared to 142 km²).

      It would be the stupidest thing done to old Vectis since some Guardianista twat “freed” Hammy The Hamster and the rest of the cast of “Tales Of The Riverbank” into the wild at Wootton Creek.

    140. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      14 April, 2022 at 8:18 pm

      OK, so it’s not just divvying up the goodies and perks of today, there’s a wad of unpaid bills going back 300 years also.

      Not entirely sure 50:50 will cut it, not if you take the power of compound interest into account on Scotland’s side.


      Scotland agreed to finance England’s debt as it stood. There was no debt passed to England by Scotland.

      Scotland cannot have any debt carried over from UK. The end. A currency union would continue to finance England’s debts, but that remains an ecumenical matter.

      Also,

      No matter what the final tally assigned to the wealth of Scotland, it is something tangible and substantial, and it counts as the collateral behind Scotland’s new currency, on top of the ‘economy already in situ’.

      [Provision for a running total of ‘Scotland plc’ and ‘Scottish pound’ to be kept was part of the Articles of Union and Union with England Act – WM repealed, among other treaty articles. Civil actions can seek rememdy here.]

      The figures can be worked out, ironically using ‘HM Treasury figures’ etc.

      Civil law for civil outcomes.

    141. Mia says:

      “Not entirely sure 50:50 will cut it, not if you take the power of compound interest into account on Scotland’s side”

      I would look much more to the England side, which is the side that has had its hand directly on the UK purse rather than just make do with a grant and the side that has taken the lion share of everybody else’s assets plus its own.

      How much has been the compound interest of England’s debt in 300 years for which Scotland has had to pay a share?

      And well, what about Scotland’s oil, gas and electricity the kingdom of England has been helping itself to?

      What about the extra charges the companies in Scotland have had to pay for putting the electricity back on the grid?

      What about that extra from the TV licences raised in Scotland that has been invested in England instead of Scotland?

      What about What all those vanity projects and infrastructure that Scotland has had to invest in by force?

      Who is paying to solve the problems at Dover?

      The unpaid “rent” in Scotland for parking the trident and the nuclear warheads? I mean, this has stopped the development of the area, hasn’t it?

      Do you remember about the ghost ferries? What proportion did Scotland have to pay for these?

      England’s disastrous track and trace and PPE scandals?

      And the “brexit dividend”? How much is Scotland losing per day since the transition period ended because of the stupidity of brexit?

      Actually, when you think about it, if you start putting everything together, 50:50 does not seem that crazy after all.

    142. Scott says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      By your logic, the Isle of Wight (population @142 000) should have double the infrastructure as Glasgow City (population @636 000) because its landmass is twice the size (372 km² compared to 142 km²).

      Isle of Wight has 1 MP.

      Council spending of £400m/142000 roughly matches that of

      Glasgow with 7 MPs.

      Scotland is to lose 2 MPs, one from Glasgow.

      England is to gain 10, guess where Glasgow’s is going?

    143. Merganser says:

      The results of these polls indicate that, of those people polled, a clear majority do not want independence.

      The results of elections show large majorities for the SNP and little support for the Labour or Conservative parties. The SNP seems to be the least worst of the three real options available to voters.

      So there must be a large percentage of SNP voters who don’t want independence. Thus a vote for the SNP is not necessarily a vote for independence.

      As long as there is no alternative, people will probably continue to vote for the SNP and against independence, and having new ‘for independence’ parties of itself is unlikely to change peoples views.

      Is it right to put aside what seems to be the wishes of most voters, and just go for some sort of unilateral declaration? Or would it be better to reach a position where most voters are indicating they wish for independence, and then go for it?

      Is it an impossible task to overcome the resistance of a quite small percentage of voters? And so tip the scales the other way?The SNP don’t seem to have the will, or ability, to do this.

      If only the Rev. Stuart were in charge….

    144. Mark Boyle says:

      Scott says:
      14 April, 2022 at 9:08 pm

      Mark Boyle says:

      By your logic, the Isle of Wight (population @142 000) should have double the infrastructure as Glasgow City (population @636 000) because its landmass is twice the size (372 km² compared to 142 km²).

      Isle of Wight has 1 MP.

      Council spending of £400m/142000 roughly matches that of

      Glasgow with 7 MPs.

      Scotland is to lose 2 MPs, one from Glasgow.

      England is to gain 10, guess where Glasgow’s is going?

      And thank you Scott for so readily falling into my trap.

      Glasgow has seven MPs for a population of 636 000 – @91 000 per MP.

      The Isle of Wight one for 142 000, over a landmass double Glasgow’s size.

      Like Cornwall, that lack of fair representation has meant it has struggled with being turned into a holiday home hell hole for rich bastards from London at the expense of the locals.

      Despite the fact by 2026 it is projected to have the oldest population in the UK (kids leave because no jobs on the island and the crippling ferry costs makes commuting from the mainland impractical), it only receives funding for one hospital and its social services have been cut to buggery from its council forever being promised more money to take into account “island life” but never happening.

      There’s only a tiny stretch of dual carriageway on the whole island for businesses to utilise and eight miles of proper railway, while by contrast, Glasgow has two motorways passing through it and a full rail network.

      That all sound fair to you?

      So yeah, begrudge Vectis all you like because “boo hoo hoo, the evil English!” and all that pish, but if it means getting rid of either Anne McLaughlin or Carol Monaghan well good riddance – just a pity it’s not the missing link David Linden.

      (Oh, by the way, the other Scottish seat lost is Tory Leader Douglas Ross’s. But you omitted to mention that, didn’t you …)

    145. Mia says:

      “I’m sorry Mia, but this is remarkably silly”

      There is nothing silly about that.

      You use population figures and landmass to estimate degree of dispersion. And that is what should guide you when determining how much infrastructure you need and where to put it. If this was ever to be a union of equals, you should expect the people of Scotland to have access to the exact same facilities as England currently has.

      Now, compare those living in London or the South East of England with somebody living in the Highlands. Do they have access to the same infrastructure and facilities, even remotely similar? No. Most of the wealth of the UK is concentrated in the South East and deliberately so. The problem is that Scotland has paying for all those facilities too.

      Forget about London and look at England as a whole and then compare it with Scotland. What proportion of overall infrastructure does England have and how does that compare with Scotland? It probably would not be wrong to say that London on its own has more infrastructure than the entirety of Scotland.

      What about the army and the RAF and the Navy? How much of it is in Scotland compared with England?

      Now look at administrative departments. How many offices do we have here in Scotland to renew our passports, for example?

      Sea ports are economic hubs, wealth creators. How many international sea ports does Scotland have despite having the largest coastline of the two countries and some of the big exports?

      How many HMRC offices does Scotland have? And England?

      How many UK government ministries are in Scotland? I do not mean the viceroy office. I mean actual UK government departments. 10%?, 1%? Any at all?

      What about homeland security? Where is all the infrastructure located?

      What about the stock Exchange? Does Scotland have its own?

      It is not like Scotland does not have the space to install any of these things and it is not like Scotland has not been paying a fair share for all those things either.

      One of the reasons why Scotland is losing population and England gaining it is because Scotland cannot offer, while in this union, the same opportunities of jobs to its young that England does because all those jobs are being created in England despite Scotland paying its fair share.

      If this was a union of equals young people should expect to find in Scotland the same opportunities as in England. If this was a union of equals Scotland and England’s population would be following the same tendency. Instead Scotland’s population is getting older and decreasing while England’s is increasing.

      How long has this been going on for?

      HMRC, RAF, the Navy, the home office, etc, etc, etc, represent jobs. Lots of them. Jobs are wealth creators. A job means accommodation, means expenditure in a supermarket, means VAT, means NI, income tax etc etc. Civil servants and army jobs are paid by the state and recycled into the local economy. How many of those are in Scotland compared with England? Scotland has been paying its fair share, so why aren’t those jobs here?

      How long has this disproportion in the distribution of jobs been going on for?

      If Scotland and England were to separate as they are now and Scotland is not given any compensation for the lack of infrastructure and administrative structures despite having to pay a share for the ones in England, it would be at a very serious disadvantage. It would have to build up most things from the ground up, while England has everything already in situ. Scotland has been helping paying for all those things in England so it is ready to walk away as an independent state but England has not been doing the same with Scotland.

      Why should Scotland walk away with nothing when it has been paying its fair share of all the UK facilities and infrastructure?

    146. Mia says:

      “That all sound fair to you?”

      No, it does not.

      But, in my personal opinion, a great deal of the problems most of England other than the SE have is the excessive and ridiculous centralisation around London.

      I am not sure if it is because really the people of England does not want to stop that centralisation with their own regional parliaments, or it is because those in London do not want to let go of the power and the perks that come with it.

      The people of England and not Scotland have the power to change that. At the ballot box. It does not matter what Scotland vote for, we will never get it. For as long as we are in this union what England chooses, no matter how toxic, is foisted on us so we cannot effect change within the union, we can never expect improvement. We can only expect improvement if we leave this union.

      Scotland cannot solve England’s regions problems. The only thing we can do is to seek a different future for ourselves out of this union that has demonstrated extensively how it will never change.

      Scotland is a country and so is England. If England becomes an independent state tomorrow, the regions in England, no matter how inadequate their infrastructure may seem at present, will have access to all the infrastructure and administrative network required for England to act as an independent state from day one.

      Despite having been paying their fair share for that infrastructure, if Scotland becomes an independent state, the people of Scotland does not have access to the same level of infrastructure.

      And that should be the measurement of the huge disproportion in how much England has profited from the union compared with Scotland.

      Should this have been a union of equals, if Scotland and England were to follow their separate ways tomorrow, they both would have been in the same position in terms of infrastructure to act as independent states from day one.

    147. Mark Boyle says:

      Mia says:
      14 April, 2022 at 10:07 pm

      “I’m sorry Mia, but this is remarkably silly”

      There is nothing silly about that.

      You use population figures and landmass to estimate degree of dispersion. And that is what should guide you when determining how much infrastructure you need and where to put it. If this was ever to be a union of equals, you should expect the people of Scotland to have access to the exact same facilities as England currently has.

      Now, compare those living in London or the South East of England with somebody living in the Highlands. Do they have access to the same infrastructure and facilities, even remotely similar? No. Most of the wealth of the UK is concentrated in the South East and deliberately so. The problem is that Scotland has paying for all those facilities too.

      And as I’ve just demonstrated to Scott, one can easily pick out examples elsewhere in the UK outside of Scotland where areas of high population concentration get a disproportionate amount of the goodies in comparison to Scottish urban concentrations such as Glasgow. There’s nothing “unique” about it.

      It’s exactly this “boo hoo hoo, no one suffers more than us!” that grinds the gears of those south of the border as we start to sound exactly like the Irish still blaming England for all their woes a century since independence. Much of North Yorkshire’s remained a bloody ignored and underdeveloped wasteland since William the Conquorer twatted it between 1069-71 – and don’t even start the Cornish on years of tin and coal and bugger all to show for it.

    148. Mia says:

      “There’s nothing “unique” about it”

      Yes there is. Because Scotland is not an England region. It is a country. Scotland is a sovereign state that entered a partnership with England 300 years ago.

      Scotland entered this union with all the infrastructure it needed to act as an independent sovereign state. As today, 300 years later, part of that infrastructure is missing, despite the people of Scotland continuing to pay for it.

      England however does not seem to have lost any of the infrastructure needed to act as an independent state. On the contrary. England appears to have benefitted from the union by gaining plenty of extra infrastructure.

      Despite both partners having for 300 years contributed the same to the creation of the UK state infrastructure, today England has the bulk of it while Scotland has much less than its fair share and in certain aspects, less than it entered the union with.

      And that is what is unique about Scotland’s situation in this union.

    149. Confused says:

      Anybody who compares Scotland to a region of England is a fucking cunt who needs his arse booted.

    150. Contrary says:

      Nicola Sturgeon… The SNP… Both toxic,, absolute poison; their delusions are insinuated into our society – harming women, children, and every discriminated minority (though is poverty a minority now,,, maybe not) – and classically undiscrminated upon men eventually when they realise society has completely broken down. To have her and them associated with independence dooms the cause, because people need to see backbone, success, power, cleverness, trustworthiness, competence, and care.

      I decided to idly look at the question “is Nicola Sturgeon a narcissist?” – to find out more about the condition, and see if it could be applied to her. Wooft, even my surface-level browsing of the topic has been revealing, very revealing – on a personal level and in a more wide ranging sense. On the personal side, I’ll just say – see if you have any manipulative friends and/or family that regularly put you down – just avoid them if you can, (bullies at work too – don’t try and challenge them, stay frosty professional and/or avoid).

      Now obviously we can’t diagnose NS with a mental illness, and I’ll stick to personality disorders – certain traits would have to be evident in childhood for any personality disorders to be applicable now too & I have no scooby about her younger years. Most of my info is from YouTube, a Dr Grande who quotes from the DSM, the US manual on mental pathologies, and my own critical thinking skills, of course.

      We have two main narcissistic personality disorders: Grandiose and Vulnerable. The first involves an ego the size of a planet (you criticise them, you are just jealous, etc) – they are not vulnerable and have no interest in anyone else’s opinion. A vulnerable narcissist needs constant validation – criticism hurts and they will do anything to either get you back, or manipulate you into rescinding the criticism. Some of the traits in common are pathological (harmful, obsessive) manipulation, and a complete lack of self-awareness. Good thing about it is that it’s not usually, in itself, associated with physical violence (though if there are strong psychopathic traits too, say, it will be).

      Let’s focus on vulnerable narcissist personality disorder – a subset of this is victim narcissism – an obsessive need to always be a victim and to manipulate others into believing this (to the extreme of something like Maunchausen by proxy say – which is actually a different disorder… It’s complex) without usually actually being a victim. Well, that seems to cover the entirety of the woke community! That desperate need to be a victim…

      Though it also turns out that many people buy into, go along with, enjoy, the narcissistic personality without actually having the condition themselves – so even though the woke display traits of the victim narcissist, they don’t necessarily have the pathology, which is good to know it isn’t an epidemic.

      Nicola Sturgeon, the perpetual hard done by victim, her inability to even hear criticism (that is, both unaware she has a problem and vulnerable to criticism), her buy-in to the biggest validation-requiring false-victim-producing campaign ever (gender ideology) – probably the worst personality to have in a leadership role anywhere, and absolutely the worst worst (what’s worse than worst?) type to have in charge of a country – or ugh of a movement to get that country independence…

      Ever wondered why NS seems oblivious to criticism, and carries on with her shitty false delusions and virtue signalling (baby boxes!) anyway? Well, she very well could be totally unaware (only believing the nice things) – pathologically unable to accept anything critical to her perfected persona. I have no idea why anyone with this condition would even contemplate going into politics, so I keep thinking surely not. Um, well, apart from them being wholly oblivious. But why on earth does she think looking ineffectual and powerless against Westminster (the victim) is a good way to keep her leadership (okay, it’s worked so far, I suppose – but it’s hardly going to change minds to independence, you need someone strong and certain to carry that can, not a blinking whiner).

      I guess RevStu has realised well before now that criticising NS has no effect on her, and, in fact, has been a bit detrimental as she has attacked back (by proxy – manipulation). But why don’t other people realise? – she is only in that leadership role with the support of other people and why are others still supporting her. Can people please please please stop voting for her – stop voting for the snp, and people in the snp stop voting for her. I really don’t believe she will ever become self-aware, or she will ever think of others, or do anything for ‘the good of the country’ – I don’t think she can. She has wriggled out of massive scandals, taking no responsibility, she has no shame whatsoever – she is not going to step aside for any reason. Should we be wishing she just gets a new job? That strategy is weak and leaves in place similar lackeys. It’s a grim future.

      Don’t vote for the snp please, not with she/her in charge, the damage will never end. She is likely very unwell, but personality disorders are characterised by being near impossible to treat – let’s have her out of harms way then.

    151. Scott says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      Free the IoW because kids leave because no jobs on the island and crippling ferry costs makes commuting from the mainland impractical

      Nice try, but as an island that could have the population of the world stood shoulder to shoulder on it in the 70’s, and also a unitary authority in its own right, any infrastructure issues are down to the locals to sort out.

      If they want 2 motorways and a mainline railway running through the island, they need to make their case for them. One more MP might do the trick, but hardly seems worth the extra expense account.

      But that’s England and English law.

      I only care about Scots law, and ‘The jurisprudence question’.

      Nanite.

    152. Confused says:

      Scotland’s infrastructure is shit and back of the envelope calculations picking out bits here and there, irrelevant; the money gets spent on the “golden triangle” London-Oxford-Cambridge, and the rest of the UK just has to fight for the scraps.

      Any indy negotiations will need a true set of accounts, both existing and historical, along with comparative economic studies to benchmark the “future that was lost”.

      You also want an exhaustive list of all the assets. Scotland will “take what is ours” and present a bill for reparations.

      Such questions are complicated – which is why the SNP (HA!) should have had its own research department working on this for the past decade.

      And such questions will be highly contested; according to some UK historians “they never made much from empire, about even, really” – whereas the Indians have calculated the astonishing figure of £45 trillion; some difference. But I mean, the Koh i Noor diamond has to be worth a few bob and “loot” is an indian word, so go figure.

      Going into negotiations with poor information and likely, poorer people, (this is one time the English will be sending their best) will see us get shafted.

      Negotiations are a bit of a poker game, and some things you might try to do even if you don’t really want them; I would like to see the nukes gone, but also that the sites are cleaned up properly. Maybe, in a negotiation, that is not the right move – you need to apply some game theory, like :

      insist indy Scotland is entitled to 2 trident subs, 32 missiles and 96 warheads

      If the English thought you were serious, the nukes would be moved, very quickly.

      Really important things like this need expertise and time, something the SNP has shown no interest in. The figures are unknowable, because a lost future is unquantifiable, but you need a ballpark figure, luckily we have the “read across” of Norway.

      You have to remember that economic questions have to be considered in tandem with the political and historical; if the English say –

      “well, your roads are so bad in the Highlands because we can’t justify spending a lot of money when the population density is so low …”

      – aye, and WHO MADE THE POPULATION DENSITY SO LOW? (- the ancestors of the ones currently blocking all the shitty roads in their camper vans)

      Arguments will become highly technical and financial, and there will be an appeal to “experts” (from the city who are in no way “unbiased”) – you need your own people, which I would get from the US. Why not hire some “loss adjusters” from a big insurance firm, and lawyers specialising in class action compensation claims, economists too.

      – this is another unionist trick and fallacy to watch out for; just because a nationalist layman cannot make a definitive answer to what is a highly technical question, right now, does not mean there is no answer, or that it will be negative towards us. For example, I am sure separate accounts for Scotland were kept up until the early 20th century, but they got embarrassing, so were discontinued, or as the SNP would put it, were “woven” through the wider accounts of the UK. The creation of fictional entities, e.g. “ex regio” to facilitate this sleight of hand, is obvious.

      You will never get full value for what you lost, but the point of having hard numbers is as a negotiating tactic; the important point is to get rid of them without them taking a shit on you as they leave (they like to do this, India, Ireland). Even if Scotland was to be demonstrably the poorest country on earth without England, it would be worth it to get rid of them. Get them out, then dynamite the motorways and rail lines, cut direct flights to London, build a wall on the border so enormous it will be the envy of Israelis and MAGA types. “Ghost” these arseholes for a generation, develop our own economy, tech, infrastructure. Delete their number from your phone. Live free and make decisions without asking yourself every 5 seconds “what do the English think?” Fuck them.

      “colonised by wankers” – yeah, that about sums it up.

      Scotland’s land will become more valuable as time passes due to climate change (it will be good for us) and right now there is a new land grab going on, both McAlpine and GrouseBeater have pieces on it, even Severin Carrell (no friend to us) has written about it. The SNP’s commitment to “land reform” is about as credible as that to independence; everyone gets all hard about small success stories liek Eigg, or lauds the Buccleuch selling off some rubbish bits he wanted rid of, but this is the background – Scotland is destined to become a theme park Willy McWonka’s Outlander Golf Resort, and we are to be the Oompah McLoompahs; check out LandWard and wonder what country it is filmed in, spot the Scot! Endless hours of fun.

      In these hypothesised “negotiations” some big corporate types will remind us that “private property rights must be respected” and that land reform, restricting ownership, taxing the land, or really taxing the rich at all, is just “marxist shit” and with that, the threat is made explicit. If you do not have people capable of standing up to this pressure, all the effort will be for nothing.

      – this guy is not on the SNP land reform committee
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjKJnsMwHk0

      They say the best revenge is “living well” – and it will be great to spend the first generation post indy watching Scotland get richer and richer, while England plummets into some “Children of Men” style dystopian shitehole, under resourced and over populated (while we bribe our young women to have MORE kids), the pound no longer with any connection to North Sea oil, no connection to anything of real worth; it will be delicious. What won’t be any fun is if we are still in the union and we end up being used as a “solution” to England’s problems, which are many, and will become all too glaring once the new census data is processed.

    153. Anon says:

      How’s retirement going?

    154. James Che. says:

      England ‘s parliament ceased to exist in 1706/07.
      All the old mechanics and running as a official legal entity ceased and cannot continue to exist after it enacted the words of the Treaty of the union.

      There was a gap i believe before the newly created Great Britian parliament was inacted, and had its first sitting as a totally new parliament, ( check the dates tomorrow if i can)

      This means England no longer had an individual english parliament after that particular and specific date.
      England was officially extingished as being a individual country, from the rest of Great Britain other than a named region of the British Isles

      However Scotland is continued to be referred to in the Treaty of the union as a country,

      Not only did Scotland keep its own Laws, its own education system, and its own religion, but retained a continuous parliament after the treaty of the union was enacted by the british parliament.
      Admittedly it is Sine Die. ( suspended) until Scotland requires it once again.

      The fact that the Great British Parliament has been aware of this for three hundred years.
      Not a peep when mentioned Margo McDonald in the new devolved Scottish government from the Great british Parliament to the contrary.

      This 300 year old tacit agreement by the Great British parliament is not to be over looked when it comes to law.

      Scotland has pretty much legally continued as a Country in its own right, as was before pre- union.

      But this knowledge also creates many many more questions,

      Can Scots under the right of self determination using Scots Law under its original but continued Pre-Union Parliament withdraw, make null ,void or preferably suspend our half of the treaty of the union.
      On the prefix of reviewing what ( Articles )of the Treaty of the Union have been Altered, Changed or made Obsolete since the signing of the 1707 international Treaty.

    155. Scott says:

      Confused says:

      How to settle up?
      —-
      Allow me a preamble..

      QE is UK Govt creating debt*, allowing more £ to be printed. None of the current £2tn and change of debt is Scotland’s.

      If £2tn is ‘owed’ via QE, there’s been £2tn created

      (*debt to itself, and it also acts as guarantor in the form of Bonds which BoE ‘hold’ until a buyer is found to ‘take them off their hands’. That buyer sells the rights to any interim interest payments, while still holding the right to a juicy profit when the bond matures. The bond market is both a ponzi scheme, and nationalised capitalism.)

      To settle up –

      Every £ ever issued is a good starting point in negotiations.

      There’s supposed to be an equivalent £ Scottish, per the terms of treaty and act.

    156. James Che. says:

      The Crown under the church of England has no legality, in or over Scots Law
      And nor does it hold sway over a televised, ie ( recorded ) RECONVENED PRE-UNION to present day Scottish PARLIAMENT.

      What we do know is that the new mod SNPs or greens are not going to do it for us,
      or they would have done it by now.

    157. Clavie Cheil says:

      It seems that we must reduce our Dependence on Ruskky Oil and Gas according to the ill informed Yankees but we can’t as according to our lying English Lords and Masters there is none left, it has all gone, if there happens to be any left then its the wrong oil and the gas was farted away by our ever flatulent English Lords and Masters ages ago, thus catastrophic global climate change can be rooted to English arses.

      English is synonymous with British and vice versa.

    158. Robert Hughes says:

      Confused , Contrary & Mia .

      Outstanding Wingers : though as , usually , a fitbaw team will only have two wingers , one of you * guys * should be centre forward .

      Any one of you would fill that/those position/s admirably .

      Get Breeks , Jimmy Che, Alf Baird , Lorna Campbell and other male and female proven strikers off the bench and into the 1st Team and we’d have a formidable , unstoppable side capable of * going all the way * .Lifting the Independence Trophy .

      First get rid of that carthorse Sturgeon . Why we ever signed her is a mystery , she’s lost the dressing-room and spent a fortune in duff signings and lost a fortune in TRANSfers .

      * Here endth the rather laboured football metaphor *

      But you get the point/s , the goal . STOPPIT ! 🙂

    159. Ruby says:

      Merganser says:
      14 April, 2022 at 9:51 pm

      So there must be a large percentage of SNP voters who don’t want independence. Thus a vote for the SNP is not necessarily a vote for independence.

      The Union is safe in the SNP’s hands?

      I always thought it was a mistake on the part of the SNP to mitigate all the harsh Tory policies and create the impression that a devolved Scotland in the Union was the ‘best of both worlds’ that we were ‘Better Together.

      It’s no wonder Unionists vote SNP.
      What’s not to like if you are a Unionist about free university education, free prescriptions, no bedroom tax, free personal care for the elderly, free bus passes, British passports, the Queen & lots of Union Jacks & Westminster saying ‘No 2nd IndyRef’

    160. Ruby says:

      If only the Rev. Stuart were in charge….

      That would be risky he might swear!

      The Rev has what Andy Ellis describes as tourettes.

    161. Robert Hughes says:

      ” It’s no wonder Unionists vote SNP.
      What’s not to like if you are a Unionist about free university education, free prescriptions, no bedroom tax, free personal care for the elderly, free bus passes, British passports, the Queen & lots of Union Jacks & Westminster saying ‘No 2nd IndyRef’ ”

      Yes , good point Ruby . All these things equally appealing to – so-called – ” New Scots ” I’m sure . Equally , it doesn’t mean they would support Independence . Some might ; if my – admittedly local – experience is any indicator , most won’t

    162. Ruby says:

      Robert Hughes says:
      15 April, 2022 at 7:18 am

      First get rid of that carthorse Sturgeon . Why we ever signed her is a mystery , she’s lost the dressing-room and spent a fortune in duff signings and lost a fortune in TRANSfers .

      It’s not just Sturgeon that’s the problem it’s every single SNP supporter which includes loads of Unionists.
      They are all there in the stands singing ‘SNP one & two’
      ‘SNP No other party will do’

    163. John Main says:

      @Merganser 14 April, 2022 at 9:51 pm

      “So there must be a large percentage of SNP voters who don’t want independence. Thus a vote for the SNP is not necessarily a vote for independence”

      Good post, and an accurate summary of the situation.

      A majority of Scots are in their “comfort zone”. Not a big majority, but nevertheless, a majority. Nothing has happened (yet) to jar them out of it.

      Events will, eventually, but not before 5 May 2022.

      Of course, if Mia could make her Scotland:rUK 50:50 divvy proposal stick, Yes would see a huge surge.

      It would be, I think, the equivalent of transferring the civic assets (or the equivalent monetary value) of 10 rUK residents to each Scottish resident. This is such a sure-fire vote winner, I wonder why it has yet to feature in the manifestos of the SNP, Alba, etc.

    164. John Main says:

      @Confused 12:41 am

      “Even if Scotland was to be demonstrably the poorest country on earth without England, it would be worth it to get rid of them”

      Nah, Confused, you’ve got that one wrong.

      See my earlier comment about a majority of Scots being in their “comfort zone”, which is why support for Indy has not budged.

      Demonstrate that an Independent Scotland will be the poorest country on earth, and support will plummet.

    165. Robert Hughes says:

      Ruby

      Agreed . Red Card the lot of them .

      John Main .

      ” This is such a sure-fire vote winner, I wonder why it has yet to feature in the manifestos of the SNP, Alba, etc. ”

      Another good point . We know why is doesn’t feature in any SNP manifesto : less clear why it doesn’t in ALBA’s

    166. Stoker says:

      Way off topic but valuable tip-off, for anyone with a cat or dog, given the scandalous advantage some companies are taking out of certain situations such as Brexit but blaming everything other than Brexit for their criminal price increases.

      Recently Amazon blasted the price of a box of 40 Winalot Dogfood pouches from £19 to £27 so buying 2 boxes now costs £54. Yesterday i discovered a company where you can purchase the exact same quantity & product for £44. Delivery is included in both these prices.

      There were many other product benefits but i’ve just shown one of them for speed purposes, i don’t have time to go through them all. So it might be worth your time to have a look at that site named vetshop.co.uk.

      NOTE: Even more unbelievable when you realise a lot of these products such as Winalot are made in England and not imported from mainland Europe. And a lot of these price increases started long before we even heard of Covid or Russia attacking Ukraine.

      Thank you, ‘NO’ voters! I sincerely hope you are all suffering at least as bad as we are. Muppets!

    167. Breeks says:

      James Che. says:
      15 April, 2022 at 1:47 am

      …Can Scots under the right of self determination using Scots Law under its original but continued Pre-Union Parliament withdraw, make null ,void or preferably suspend our half of the treaty of the union.
      On the prefix of reviewing what ( Articles )of the Treaty of the Union have been Altered, Changed or made Obsolete since the signing of the 1707 international Treaty.

      I would make an important distinction… The Articles of the Treaty of Union have not been altered. Not one syllable has changed in the Treaty since it came into effect, and nor can the Treaty be altered without the consent of both signatories.

      If the Articles of the 1707 Treaty are being altered in a material sense, then the Articles are being broken unilaterally and the Treaty is being breached.

      To the best of my knowledge, there is nothing, no document to be found, which even so much as hints at sovereignty being removed from the Scottish people, and in truth, there is nothing which can remove it. The Treaty of Union doesn’t, and nor does the devious slight of hand of the enigmatic unwritten convention which “somehow” marries the popular sovereignty of Scotland’s people with the one person in Scotland who is, by explicit literal definition, NOT sovereign in Scotland.

      Forget about England, even without stepping outside the realm of Scotland, the Union is a fiction which claims to have done what cannot properly be done, and has only survived these past centuries because the United Kingdom Establishment has never been formally challenged and required to show the workings whereby the Scottish people apparently abdicated their sovereign birth right.

      The Treaty of Union is a fallacy, a con, which only survives because it steadfastly evades scrutiny through perpetual bluster and sophistry, and has never been compelled to address the awkward inconsistencies of indelible and unalterable facts.

    168. Desimond says:

      Bloody heartbreaking.
      Charitable soul would say Nicola has just focused on so many other things that she lost sight of the path and now is in no persons land…others would say they think she’s been seduced by the power, glamour and prestige of office, regardless of how limited it is or manipulated she is, there she sits on a throne of illusion, telling her and her cohorts that we all just dont understand how the world works in reality, in reality its like someone claiming their Queen of an island in a duck pond.

      Its all starting to go a wee bit Tony Blair isnt it?

    169. Desimond says:

      Bloody heartbreaking.
      Charitable soul would say Nicola has just focused on so many other things that she lost sight of the path and now is in no persons land…others would say they think she’s been seduced by the power, glamour and prestige of office, regardless of how limited it is or manipulated she is, there she sits on a throne of illusion, telling herself and her cohorts that we all just don’t understand how the world works in reality, in reality its like someone claiming their Queen of an island in a duck pond.

      Its all starting to go a wee bit Tony Blair isnt it?

    170. Mark Boyle says:

      Scott says:
      14 April, 2022 at 11:09 pm

      Mark Boyle says:

      Free the IoW because kids leave because no jobs on the island and crippling ferry costs makes commuting from the mainland impractical

      Nice try, but as an island that could have the population of the world stood shoulder to shoulder on it in the 70’s, and also a unitary authority in its own right, any infrastructure issues are down to the locals to sort out.

      Which could equally be said of Scotland – since it sent MPs to Westminster, had its own legal system, and there’s even been several Scottish Prime Ministers. That they did fk all to make things better up north tells you where the real blame lies as ever – Scots selling out fellow Scots once they’ve climbed the greasy poll.

      (BTW that “unitary authority” has been for most of its existence nothing of the kind in the modern sense – for the first decade of it for example it was “chaired” by an absentee landlord’s placemen!)

      But let’s not let pesky facts get in the way of some “boo hoo hoo, the evil English” rather than face up to the bitter truth much of Scotland’s woes were self inflicted, right up to Sturgeon and Blackford to this day.

    171. Mark Boyle says:

      Confused says:
      14 April, 2022 at 11:00 pm

      Anybody who compares Scotland to a region of England is a fucking cunt who needs his arse booted.

      Anyone trying to be the hard man behind an online alias talking about booting anyone’s arse is a gutless wee prick who would shite it in real life if they had their bluff called to their face.

    172. Scott says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      Which could equally be said of Scotland

      Yeah, that’s why I distinctly said that IoW is for them to sort out and I’m only interested in Scotland & Scots law.

      Feel free to go in the huff again.

    173. Alf Baird says:

      Breeks @ 9:19 am

      “The Treaty of Union is a fallacy, a con,”

      That would appear to be the case. It should be no surprise however given that many English colonies indigenous peoples’ were handed a wee treaty including North American Indians, New Zealand Maori, Australian aborigine’s, the Irish, plus numerous peoples in Africa, Asia, and South America. They were, and some still are colonised peoples therefore exist under colonial rule suffering colonial oppression, even still holding a treaty. The Scots are no different, which is why we want independence, which the UN tells us is decolonisation. So we need to see beyond the piece of paper as that is all a treaty is, and consider the reality of a colonial existence, the every day experience of a people: e.g. Daes Scots bairns lairn thair ain langage in schuil; do Scots have control over their resources, borders, culture, etc etc?

    174. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Contrary (11.04 pm) –

      Very plausible indeed.

      Personally, I ‘blame the parents’, and one of them in particular.

      If you ever see footage of NS at conference, when she comes offstage to meet the crowd, with the media being shepherded by her husband, there’s always a moment when she goes to her parents. The old boy always stays in the background but the mum gets her hands on NS’s shoulders and stands back as if to say ‘let me look at you!’ – she’s really trying to get herself in the frame.

      And there endeth today’s psychology segment.

      😉

    175. Breeks says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      15 April, 2022 at 10:01 am

      Nice try, but as an island that could have the population of the world stood shoulder to shoulder on it in the 70’s, and also a unitary authority in its own right, any infrastructure issues are down to the locals to sort out.

      Not when there’s a parasite stealing its resources, promising mutual benefit from infrastructure development which invariably runs out of steam and enthusiasm beyond Manchester, habitually favouring capacity in the South over Scotland, (see Devonport vs Rosyth, Ravenscraig, Scottish Energy producers access to the grid…), mothballing Scotland’s access to customers, (See Brexit and count the number of Continental Ferry terminals in Scotland), installing pro-union Establishment “gatekeepers” to manipulate Scottish Industry through the Boardroom, (See “Scotland’s” Whisky, Oil, Farming, Forestry, Tourism Industry), and subjecting it’s domestic population to Unionist indoctrination and pernicious Anglicisation through a monopolised propaganda network masquerading as News Broadcasting.

      So if the Isle of White can do it, why can’t Scotland? Gee, let me think now…

    176. Mark Boyle says:

      Mia says:
      14 April, 2022 at 10:54 pm

      “There’s nothing “unique” about it”

      Yes there is. Because Scotland is not an England region. It is a country. Scotland is a sovereign state that entered a partnership with England 300 years ago.

      Scotland entered this union with all the infrastructure it needed to act as an independent sovereign state. As today, 300 years later, part of that infrastructure is missing, despite the people of Scotland continuing to pay for it.

      First, Scotland didn’t “enter a partnership”, its ruling class chucked it in the bin in return for Darian being paid off and a few other goodies. You are talking about an era where it was “legal” to declare one king (James) to have “abdicated” his reign by “flyt”. Trying to compare what happened in the pre-democratic, pre-universal suffrage era to the political realities of today is absurd.

      Second, “As today, 300 years later, part of that infrastructure is missing, despite the people of Scotland continuing to pay for it.” … So what? Londoners no longer have their “Liberties” seventeen of which at various times in history were independent statelets answerable only to the Crown, but you don’t hear them demanding the return of these “just because” their ancestors had it 300 years ago and their successors took their eyes off the ball (or more to the point, happily conspired in them being junked in return for English titles and position). Just because our ancesters sold their heritage for a mess of pottage doesn’t mean we get to claim it back at whim – history’s not a pawn shop where you may claim back your sold items at any time.

      Quite honestly, your whole “Scotland’s landmass is 60% that of England therefore it should have infrastructure equally to 60% of that of England” is the most absurd argument I’ve heard since the Poll Tax, which was the last time anyone tried to equate “fairness” in such a skewed manner.

    177. Mark Boyle says:

      Scott says:
      15 April, 2022 at 10:18 am

      Feel free to go in the huff again.

      So in other words you’ve run out of arguments and are now entering the “you’re a big jobby!” stage of WOS comments meltdowns.

      Plus ca change …

    178. Mark Boyle says:

      Breeks says: 15 April, 2022 at 10:35 am

      … subjecting it’s domestic population to Unionist indoctrination …

      Wait, what?

      Considering the outbreak of bile on the streets and online from the mutant hordes when their 90 Minute Master Race saw their tax dodging club reach the Europa semis, it’s pretty clear Scotland doesn’t need anyone “subjecting” it to Unionist indoctrination when it so happily does it all by itself on a regular basis as its favourite leisure pursuit!

    179. Mia says:

      @Mark Boyle

      “First, Scotland didn’t “enter a partnership”, its ruling class chucked it in the bin in return for Darian being paid off and a few other goodies”

      You are absolutely correct that Scotland was sold by a parcel of rogues. But what those parcel of rogues entered in was a international treaty of union which is still extant today. That is a partnership you like it or not.

      “You are talking about an era where it was “legal” to declare one king (James) to have “abdicated” his reign by “flyt”.”

      That is irrelevant because it does not invalidate the Treaty of Union, which, by the way, rests on the Claim of Right as its main foundation. No Claim of Right, no treaty of union. The Claim of right is a fundamental condition for the Act of Union with England.

      “Trying to compare what happened in the pre-democratic, pre-universal suffrage era to the political realities of today is absurd”

      Go and tell that to the Spanish with relation to the Treaty of Utrecht and wait for their reply. You may be in for a surprise.

      “So what?”

      We are owed to have in Scotland the infrastructure we have been paying for and that has been, almost exclusively installed in England. At the time Scotland and the Kingdom of England follow their separate paths, as this is a union of equals, it is perfectly reasonable for Scotland to demand the same level of infrastructure as England has.

      “Londoners no longer have their “Liberties” seventeen of which at various times in history were independent statelets”

      That will be for London to arrange. Scotland has to fight for what is hers. London can do the same if it chooses to do so. That London or any part of England for that matter chooses not to demand what is theirs is no justification for Scotland not to demand what is hers too.

      Where are the treaties that those “statelets” signed to be part of the union? Because the treaty of union that Scotland signed is available in the library and often mentioned in the speeches in both houses of parliament. I never read anything regarding those statelets that you mention.

      “Just because our ancesters sold their heritage for a mess of pottage doesn’t mean we get to claim it back at whim”

      Yes we do. If the articles of the treaty have been breached, of course we do. If there is a change in circumstances, as there have been and plenty, we can demand the treaty and act of union with England to be repealed. That is what international law does.

      “history’s not a pawn shop where you may claim back your sold items at any time”

      Excellent comment. So why on earth is England, in the form of England MPs and England Lords constantly claiming back the “parliamentary sovereignty” they sold in 1706?

      “Quite honestly, your whole “Scotland’s landmass is 60% that of England therefore it should have infrastructure equally to 60% of that of England” is the most absurd argument I’ve heard”

      Well, then you have not been paying attention. Because an even more absurd argument is that which claims the only way Scotland can exit this union is by seceding from the UK, with the consent of Westminster, and with nothing, despite having been paying for all that infrastructure that England displays and it has been hoarding since 1707.

      “since the Poll Tax, which was the last time anyone tried to equate “fairness” in such a skewed manner”.”

      You are wrong on that one too. The last time anyone tried to equate “fairness” in a skewed manner is when we were told we had to accept England’s brexit because “it was a Uk vote”.

    180. Scott says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      Gibberish as deflection

      While in the huff.

    181. Lochside says:

      ‘Mark Boyle’..what is your point? Is Scotland a de facto colonised rump state with a bought elite and a brainwashed education system propped up daily by a foreign anglophone msm tsunami of false consciousness or not? Does it have a history of mass emigration and war losses that are a direct result of its natural resources and people being plundered by England and its caledonian confederates or not?

      Your inference about Glasgow Rangers and its malign influence is accurate, but its ugly sectarian twin’s leadership revealed themselves, including leading ex players to be unregenerate Unionists as much as the other lot. I’m guessing with your apparent origins that you would regard Ireland as the original experiment for English Imperialism. One which resolved it partially, by recognising its struggle as a historical one of colonialism versus imperial oppression, but one it still struggles with in the North of that benighted isle.

      Surely the way forward for Scotland is the one that is emerging in the non SNP nationalist movement: one of working people with skills and life experience uniting against a managerial compromised class of collaborators keeping us imprisoned in the failed UKState?.

      You sneer at the Poll Tax’ era, but cannot have experienced the solidarity of the demonstrations and civil disobedience that occurred in that period. It stopped Thatcher. We need that movement again with brave leaders similar to the Tommy Sheridan of that time. Attacking each other is playing into the hands of the Britstate actors on here. Let the blind SNP followers and their Unionist pals take that self destructive path. So Let’s hear your constructive view on an Independent Scotland’s future.

    182. John Main says:

      @Mia says 15 April, 2022 at 11:17 am

      “The last time anyone tried to equate “fairness” in a skewed manner is when we were told we had to accept England’s brexit because “it was a Uk vote”.”

      Sorry Mia, I just can’t let that one go by.

      The referendum question was: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

      The possible responses were:

      1) Remain a member of the European Union

      2) Leave the European Union

      The question never allowed for Scotland or England to go their separate ways. Soz.

      If the people of Scotland had been asked if Scotland should remain in or leave the EU, you would have a case.

      But they were not. So you don’t.

      I honestly think Scots Indy could get a lot more traction with the thinking segment of the population if it would stop trying to build this particular grievance on what are obvious foundations of sand.

      There are a hell of a lot of Scots who could and still can parse and understand that simple referendum question. These Scots can see the obvious fallacy of the “Scotland was dragged out of the EU against its will” claim.

      The truth is that the UK was dragged out of the EU against Scotland’s will. From that, it follows logically that Scotland may (subject to being asked) want the UK to rejoin the EU.

      As to whether Scotland wants an Independent Scotland to join the EU, that’s a completely different question.

    183. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      15 April, 2022 at 12:08 pm

      The referendum question was: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

      [The referendum wasn’t needed anyway; any MP could have laid a business motion in the Commons to withdraw from the treaty at any point, again by virtue of Crown of England/Royal Prerogative/WM/English law]

      All votes cast in Scotland are declared in Scotland.

      Everything that happens in Scotland is governed by Scots law.

      The Crown of Scotland failed to uphold the democratically expressed wishes of the Kingdom of Scotland, as required by the monarch.

      FM, PO, SoS all failed to dutifully advise the monarch that A50 trigger was unlawful, thus all ensuing Brexit legislation and effects also are unlawful.

      Trade on same terms as all constituent parts of UK its dominions etc in perpetuity, per ToU, UwEA.

      Similarly, the Crown of Ireland failed to uphold the democratically expressed wishes of the Province of Northern Ireland (N Irish law)

      Two of the 3 kingdoms voted to remain.

      The Crown of England did the rest, including the special deals for NI & Gibraltar refused to Scotland.

      In lieu of a fee for educating you again, I suggest you donate to Rev Stu?

      Sorry John, I just couldn’t let that one go by.

    184. And Spouse says:

      Interesting article in
      Believe in Scotland
      https://www.believeinscotland.org/three-reasons-westminsters-energy-strategy-doesnt-work-for-scotland/

      Wind power sold! Not all used! No one else can get it! But enough profit to be made from the grid anyway!
      Our own energy provider could easily reduce the cost of living to everyone in Scotland. It make me wonder if the way the world works now with the big companies, is there any chance we can take charge of our country after Indy. Indy is next year, right?

    185. James Che. says:

      The suggestion of suspending the 1707 treaty of the union, from our reconvened Scottish Parliament on the basis Scotland suspects Article’s of that treaty have not been adhered to.

      Such as the following.

      The Statue Law revision Scotland Act 1906.

      Statue Law Revision 1927.

      The Acts of parliament (commencement) Act 1793.

      Statue Law Revision Scotland Act 1964.

      These interfered and made obsolete some of Scotlands pre- union laws,
      Wether they were any use in modern time or not, they were still the Laws of Scotland and stipulated not to be altered by the treaty of union articles.
      This is on record and in Hansard.

      Another subject that was to remain in solely to Scotland according to The the Article of the treaty of the union was education.

      But the british parliament took this upon itself in the early 1800s to re- educate Scots. And
      That is also in recorded in Hansard
      You will find it under a speech made on the 11 th October 1911 by the Lord Advocate.
      He goes on to explain in the early seventies the single Scottish Education Office was transferred to london.

      Not only are these very appropriate reasons to suspend the treaty of the union while investigations are carried out by the Reconvened Scottish Parliament

      As to wether the Articles have been materially or physically altered when compared to the actual written agreement.
      And if so, did the British parliament breach the treaty of the union.

      Another thought just came into my head, but i will try not to make this one to long , i will start afresh slant /topic.

    186. Breeks says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      15 April, 2022 at 11:08 am

      it’s pretty clear Scotland doesn’t need anyone “subjecting” it to Unionist indoctrination…

      Couldn’t agree more, but unfortunately the Unionist Establishment sees it differently and maintains an iron grip monopoly on broadcasting Great British Pish, and conspicuously not broadcasting informative and objective analysis about the merits or otherwise of Scottish Independence.

      And if it’s football coverage describing in your comment, I take it you haven’t tried to watch a Scotland game on Council TV for a while… I don’t actually care much about football, (yeay! Lucky me!), other than the BBC apparently pays Gary Lineker more in salary than the BBC pays to broadcast Scottish football, which hardly seems an equitable “cultural” investment.

    187. James Che. says:

      What is the legal standing to day with regards to ( legal?) entity that was 1707?

      Scotlands Parliament made a treaty of union with the English Parliament in 1707. Not the newly created British parliament.

      300 years later Scotland has continued its Sine Die Parliament.

      However England made null and void the English Parliament in 1707.

      Who do the Scottish parliament actually have a treaty with?

    188. James Che. says:

      Did England when it ended the English Parliament cancel out the treaty of the union automatically?

    189. John Main says:

      @Scott 15 April, 2022 at 12:33 pm

      Thanks for your reply.

      “FM, PO, SoS all failed to dutifully advise the monarch that A50 trigger was unlawful, thus all ensuing Brexit legislation and effects also are unlawful.”

      If A50 and Brexit were unlawful, why did the EU go along with an unlawful act? The EU does accept we have left, yes?

      Not paying any fees yet, Scott. Think of it as payment for results. If I ever get to the point where I understand this, some fees may be payable.

    190. Breeks says:

      Poigniant Tweet from Denise Finlay…


      “The WM government is in chaos. Now imagine we’d followed Alex Salmond’s advice a year ago and we had a supermajority in Holyrood. We’d be able to call a plebiscite election with full control, including the voting method
      But you listened to Sturgeon….”

      https://twitter.com/GraceBrodie/status/1514129618520977413?cxt=HHwWisC5_bS3ooMqAAAA

    191. Mia says:

      “Sorry Mia, I just can’t let that one go by”

      Well, I am afraid you are just going to have to.

      The Uk of Great Britain is not a country and never will be, no matter how much tories, labour and other “one nation” establishment useful idiots keep parroting.

      The Uk of Great Britain is a political union resulting from an international treaty between two equal partners.

      England MPs and Lords (you can read their speeches if you wish), tell us until they are blue in the face that Scotland is not a colony but an equal partner in this union of equals.

      Well then, if it is a partnership of equals then Scotland has as much right to decide the direction of travel of the Uk as England does. And guess what? Scotland said NO to Brexit. So why are out of the EU today?

      The reason for this is 16 June 2015, the day when England MPs, not holding the democratic mandate of a single vote from Scotland, and in contravention of our Claim of Right, self awarded themselves the absolute right to veto Scotland’s vote FOR remaining in the EU and in doing so condemned Scotland to forcefully exit the EU against its expressed democratic will and on the say of the Kingdom of England.

      At that point, they established that Scotland’s vote, an equal partner in a political union it entered by means of an international treaty, counted less than that of England.

      What right did they have to do that? In my view absolutely none because they held the mandate of not a single vote from the people of Scotland.

      I call them absolute rulers because every one of those MPs would know that Scotland has a population more than 10 times smaller than that of England. This means that without the democratic safeguards that should have been in place to call that vote democratic and to ensure the voice of Scotland was as loud as that of England, were deliberately denied.

      Those democratic safeguards were denied because every single poll conducted in Scotland at the time showed support of Scotland for the EU, meaning that with those democratic safeguards brexit could not have ever happened. So effectively, those undemocratic England MPs, fancying themselves as absolute rulers over Scotland even when they did not even had a single vote from Scotland giving them the mandate to speak or act on Scotland’s behalf, had already decided the UK, even before the official vote had taken place, should exit the EU.

      So please, do not insult my intelligence by ever claiming “it was a Uk vote”. It wasn’t anything of the sort. If it had ever been conceived as a UK vote it would have put the democratic safeguards in place to stop any of the two members of this political union ever forcing the other in a direction it did not wish to go.

      At the point England MPs chose to self appoint themselves as Scotland’s absolute rulers, it was obvious England and Scotland were heading in diametrically opposing directions. The proper thing to do for serious democratic representatives instead of self-serving wankers, would have been to offer the Kingdom of England the option of deciding if they wanted to terminate the uK union and pursue brexit alone, or to forget about brexit and preserve the UK union.

      But sadly what we have passing as democratic representatives in Scotland and beyond are nothing but spineless charlatans for whom democracy is just a parody where the people votes in a pretend referendum/election where the choice the people actually wants has been deliberately removed from the options made available to them, so they don’t have any other choice than voting for what they do not want and would harm them. That is not democracy. That is absolute rule.

      Scotland entered that farce and assault on democracy that many still call EU “referendum”, with her wanted option, which was remaining in the EU, made impossible by the veto of the amateur absolute rulers sitting in Westminster as England MP.

      So was ever any point in Scotland taking part in England’s EU referendum other than to offer a veneer of legitimacy to the absolute rulers sitting in Westminter, determined to forcing Scotland out of the EU against its expressed democratic will to protect England’s interests?

      No. The exact same result would have been achieved if England had voted alone. But then again if that had been the case they could not pretend to be democrats and worse, that this was ever a “UK” vote when it wasn’t and never was intended to be.

      That day, if democracy in the Uk ever existed, died a painful death.

      I do not only blame England Mps for this, mind. I fully blame Scotland’s MPs too, including the 56 SNP cowards who chose to legitimise that take over of Scotland’s democratic rights by continue to sit in Westminster during and after that vote instead of point blank refusing to go with that assault on Scotland’s democratic rigths and threatening to end the treaty of union right there and then unless adequate democratic safeguards were not put in place to ensure England could not drag Scotland out of the EU against its will.

      Hell knows that 56 out of 59 Mps would have been more than enough to bring the UK union to an immediate end or to stop brexit.

      But as we have been witnessing ever since, like for example during the A50 triggering vote, the SNP under Sturgeon never had any intention whatsoever to stop Scotland being dragged out of the EU against our will and even less to uphold our democratic rights.

      On the contrary. the SNP under Sturgeon has time and time again abused our votes to ensure England MPs can continue to subject Scotland to abuse and ransacking of its assets by continue to legitimise this abuse with their presence in Westminster and by catastrophically failing in their duty to protect our interests and to demand our democratic vote to stand.

      Every theft of our assets an unlawful re-writing our laws without our consent has its fundations in brexit. Brexit has its foundations in a bogus referendum where Scotland had been deliberately set to fail.

      As it is, our vote in the EU referendum was a complete waste of time. A complete and utter farce. An excuse to drag us out of the EU against our will.

      So don’t you tell me that such display of abuse of power was ever “a UK vote”. The Uk is a bit more than a collection of cowards playing at being absolute rulers masquerading as democrats.

      The Eu referendum a complete and undemocratic farce. Scotland was set to fail and England was used as a pawn to retrospectively legitimise a decision which had been taken the minute Cameron was unable to revert those EU transparency laws that were about to land over the elite’s beloved tax havens exposing the names of all those hypocrites happy to profit from UK taxpayers but too selfish to pay their due tax.

      Shame on Sturgeon and her useless SNP for ever allowing that farce to take place. And shame on you for ever claiming such assault on Scotland’s democratic rights can ever be called a “UK vote”.

      You can save for yourself the rest of your waffle about what we voted for or what we didn’t. The reality here is that Scotland did not give consent for the Uk of Great Britain, a union of which it is an equal partner, to exit the EU.

      Before you tell me that “Westminster is sovereign”, let me tell you that I disagree. It is not. It is not because the concept of “parliamentary sovereignty” is an English convention that does not have counterpart in Scottish constitutional law. The parliament of the Uk of Great Britain is not the English parliament, it is a new parliament, therefore the idea that it only inherited English convention and none of the Scottish one is absolute nonsense.

      What I do not accept, and never will, is that England MPs can lawfully claim they have a bigger say in Scottish matters than Scotland’s own Mps, being those sitting in Holyrood or Westminter. And, unacceptably, that is precisely what those England MPs did in June 2016 when they self-awarded themselves a veto to force Scotland out of the EU against our will and against the vote of the absolute majority of Scotland’s representatives, both in Westminster and Holyrood.

    192. James Che. says:

      Breeks.

      Surely if one half of the treaty of the union voluntary ceased to exist, closed itself down, , ( the english parliament) in this case
      There is no treaty in existence as soon as the english Parliament closed.

      Scotlands Parliament did not make a treaty of union with the Great British Parliament.

      Mia.

      If this is accurate, you will love the repercussions,
      For anything that England took as its share of Scotlands resources since and under a void 1707 treaty of the union would have been stolen,

    193. John Main says:

      @And Spouse 15 April, 2022 at 12:46 pm

      To be fair, the WM energy strategy works for nobody in the UK.

      The idea that commissioning new reactors, which will take between 10 and 20 years to bring onstream, while everybody is struggling with their bills now, is ludicrous.

      The fixation with supply-side provision, whilst ignoring demand-side (insulation, etc) is typical Tory big-business-friendly ideological dogma.

      Spectacular, missed open goals for any competent opposition to capitalise on, but I won’t hold my breath.

      I bet the HR inner circle are meeting today to agree how to handle PR if Rangers make it to the final. Priorities matter.

    194. James Che. says:

      Mia.

      I dont know if you have been reading my deliberations above.

      I have come to the conclusion the treaty of the union between the English Parliament 1706/ 1707. And the Scottish Parliament 1706/1707 can no longer be held as a valid legal treaty at all.

      As the English Parliament legally cancelled its own existence in 1707.

    195. John Main says:

      @Mia 1:25

      I’m not waffling about anything.

      I’m stating as an incontrovertible fact that the referendum question was “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”

      I’m stating as a logical conclusion that anybody who voted Remain, voted for the UK to remain in the EU. Anybody voting Leave, voted for the UK to leave

      If people choose to mentally replace “United Kingdom” with “Scotland” or “England” when they read and think about things, that’s their carelessness. In the real world, it’s wishful thinking. In the real world, wishful thinking leads to cognitive dissonance.

      But the time to quibble about the referendum question was before the referendum. Any collection of highly-paid SNP parasites could have game planned the possibilities of the different nations returning different results.

      They could have demanded a different question, or explanatory notes. Hell, they could have called for Scotland to boycott the referendum. Now that really would have made it a contestable result, allowed this argument some traction, and denied the SNP any wiggle room.

      But they did none of these things. So we are where we are.

    196. Scott says:

      James Che. says:

      These interfered and made obsolete some of Scotlands pre- union laws,
      Wether they were any use in modern time or not, they were still the Laws of Scotland and stipulated not to be altered by the treaty of union articles.

      Not strictly true.

      Article XXV

      That all Laws and Statutes in either Kingdom so far as they are contrary to or inconsistent with the Terms of these Articles or any of them shall from and after the Union cease and become void and shall be so declared to be by the respective Parliaments of the said Kingdoms

      ***
      Useless laws canned by order of both parliaments.

      It’d be interesting to see which of England’s laws were repealed by XXV and if any slipped through the net due to ignorance and language differences.

      The repeal of so many ancient laws of Scotland so long into the union is interesting for research purposes – 15th Century Acts were only repealed by Wm in 19th

      WM was given the power to repeal Acts of Scottish Parliament (not Claim of Right Act 1689)…with a wonderfully canny caveat.

      See Union with England Act 1707 final clause, ‘the declaration’.

      WHICH ARTICLES OF UNION and Act immediately above-written Her Majesty with advice and consent foresaid Statutes Enacts and Ordains to be and Continue in all time coming the sure and perpetuall foundation of ane compleat and intire Union of the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England under this express Condition and Provision That the Approbation and Ratification of the foresaids Articles and Act shall be nowayes binding on this Kingdom untill the said Articles and Act be Ratified Approven and Confirmed by Her Majesty with and by the Authority of the Parliament of England as they are now Agreed to Approved and Confirmed by Her Majestie with and by the Authority of the Parliament of Scotland Declaring nevertheless that the Parliament of England may provide for the security of the Church of England as they think expedient to take place within the bounds of the said Kingdom of England and not Derogating from the security above provided for Establishing of the Church of Scotland within the bounds of this Kingdom As also the said Parliament of England may extend the Additions and other provisions contained in the Articles of Union as above insert in favours of the Subjects of Scotland to and in favours of the Subjects of England which shall not suspend or Derogate from the force and effect of this present Ratification But shall be understood as herein included without the necessity of any new Ratification in the Parliament of Scotland And lastly Her Majesty Enacts and Declares That all Laws and Statutes in this Kingdom so far as they are contrary to or inconsistent with the terms of these Articles as abovementioned shall from and after the Union cease and become void

      ***

      Changes could be made without the need for new ratification of the treaty or Union with England Act by Scotland’s Parliament, so it clearly still existed as ‘legal personality’

      Scotland always had the power to reconstitute its parliament and still does, achievable via Court of Session.

      [Holyrood, the Scotland Act tribute production is not the same legislature, unless the rights of the Scots to challenge the monarch is written within it, oh that’s right, the monarch is reserved.]

      The people are sovereign, not the laws or Queen of England.

      Union with England Act 1707, the t&c’s

      https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aosp/1707/7 as amended by WM

    197. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/iZU3P
      Herald 4 hours ago
      Nicola Sturgeon
      Boys to be allowed to take part in girls sports

      Boris Johnson
      men should not be allowed to compete in women’s sport

      https://archive.ph/65rml
      Times 5 days ago

      Transgender girls should not be barred from sport, says SNP

      This week the Scottish Conservatives are to focus on female-only spaces as a local election issue with manifesto commitments to safeguard such rights where they are elected to run councils.

    198. Ruby says:

      It looks like the Tories have a better idea what will win votes in the local elections than the SNP/Greens.

      That could be the result of the SNP/Greens living in a rainbow bubble & refusing to listen to people

      Any news regarding Craig Murray’s Alba membership?

      Neither Andy Ellis nor Craig Murray have done anything to encourage me to vote Alba.
      Do we know if John Le Pubis Main is also a founder member of Alba.

    199. James Che. says:

      Scott,
      Indeed it has been interesting reading.
      As far as i can tell the main important reason for changing [Scots pre-union law] was that most of the mps in westminster could not understand the old Scots language,
      Very colonial.

      As a conclusion to any alterations to be made thereafter.

      The Parliament of England closed its doors in 1706/1707, ceased to exist,, closed for business, voluntary folded, expired.

      Immediately cancelling it contractual 1707 agreement with Scotland.

    200. Mia says:

      @John Main

      You say: “I’m not waffling about anything”

      I am afraid you are. You are trying to distract from the main point by dragging attention to a question in a ballot that became completely meaningless the minute England MPs, fancying themselves as absolute rulers, self-awarded themselves the right to veto Scotland’s vote.

      This means that even if the entirety of those approaching the polling places in Scotland during that referendum had spoiled their ballots, it would not have had any effect whatsoever because the amateur absolute rulers representing England in Westminster had already decided England’s vote would prevailed no matter what Scotland voted for.

      If you have already fixed the result, what is the value of the question included in the ballot? What is the point in casting your vote?

      Democratically speaking, absolutely NONE. The exercise becomes a complete farce. Instead of being an exercise in democracy it becomes a tool to bypass democracy.

      You say: “Any collection of highly-paid SNP parasites could have game planned the possibilities of the different nations returning different results”

      Most of those sitting in Westminster are parasites. All those sitting in Westminster during that vote had the opportunity to do the right thing, which was to demand and set up the democratic safeguards and all of them failed to do so. All of them had the democratic obligation to make the vote fair. But none of them moved a serious finger to do so.

      Mr Salmond was the only one that raised the issue, but it was crushed by the amateur absolute rulers that call themselves England MPs and who self-appointed themselves as Scotland’s masters without holding the mandate of a single vote from Scotland.

      It stands to the obvious to any observer that is not mathematically challenged that in a parliament of over 600 when you only have 56 MPs asking for something and when the rest are determined to frustrate Scotland’s vote what come may, appealing to inexistent good will, is a complete waste of time and takes you nowhere.

      If you want something you will have to demand it, but through the right channel, from a lectern those in Westminster cannot ignore. And for that lectern to be in a position where it cannot be ignored, that lectern has to be OUTSIDE the parliament, holding that parliament to ransom and in a position where not only those sitting in Westminster, but everybody else in the world, can watch and listen. And for that lectern to have a message worth listening, it has to offer a much worse option as the only alternative to the demand.

      But Sturgeon either does not have the backbone to stand up for Scotland on that lectern or worse, she never intended to.

      You say: “Hell, they could have called for Scotland to boycott the referendum”

      In my view that would have been a complete waste of time. That would be the kind of futile approach sycophants sitting on the unionist benches would take to be seen as doing something, but not the approach a real pro-indy party would take.

      A referendum where the result has been fixed by England MPs to usurpe Scotland’s right to choose by forcing Scotland against its will in a constitutional matter as it was the EU membership, is a sign the malignancy attacking this union and that sees Scotland as England’s property, has entered an irreversible stage less than a year after we were promised the moon if we remained in the UK.

      Attempting to repair it would do nothing for Scotland, other than putting Scotland at risk that this beast will rear its head again and land another ferocious bite on Scotland at any point in the future.

      The SNP claimed to be a pro-independence party so it should have acted like one. A real pro indy party moves towards independence, not away from it.

      The SNP should have used their majority to move towards independence, for example with an immediate threat to repeal the treaty and act of union with England unless the democratic safeguards that would have ensured Scotland’s expressed democratic will was respected, were in place.

      Sadly, we saw the precise opposite. We saw the SNP using our pro indy votes to preserve the union and enable brexit. The only possible conclusion from this is that the SNP under Sturgeon is no longer a pro indy party but a covert unionist one.

    201. Scott says:

      James Che. says:
      15 April, 2022 at 3:33 pm

      Scott,
      Indeed it has been interesting reading.

      As a conclusion to any alterations to be made thereafter.

      The Parliament of England closed its doors in 1706/1707, ceased to exist,, closed for business, voluntary folded, expired.


      Merci, it’s a pity the Act as enacted isn’t viewable like most legislation. (Amending legislation is mostly missing from the web too, for some reason.)

      Article III: That the United Kingdom of Great Britain be Represented by one and the same Parliament to be stiled the Parliament of Great Britain

      Union with England Act 1707 is supposed to be a living, breathing document, with all amendments to articles being the successor article…they weren’t written to be repealed, all ‘amending text/reason for change’ should still be visible.

      The Court of Session, or Scotland’s Parliament as defined in UwEAct 1707 would have had a field day if such blatant misreading of the terms & conditions had occured in 1707 rather than say, (Statue Law revision Scotland Act) 1906 or today even.

      ***

      Civil litigation in England is basically a case of,

      My precedent v Their precedent,

      and hee-haw to do with the actual facts: which then binds the next similar case to the verdict. Production bundles are massive for simple cases, because best armed etc. Costly, time consuming, rubbish.

      The way Acts are constructed still follow the model of the English Parliament.

      They really really fucked up big time when it came to oors of 1707.

      ***

      Scottish court judges laugh at case law they don’t like, and treat every case on its own merits first anyway.

      Scots civil law is a skoosh to navigate through, the rules of court are published on scotcourts.gov.uk for now.

      Scotland’s status within the united kingdoms, and alleged breaches of the treaty are matters for the Scots to adjudicate on in the first instance.

      And that’s really all I have to say about that, for now.

    202. Republicofscotland says:

      Sturgeon the betrayer to dust of her big yellow bus, y’know the one that once had Stop Brexit on it as she toured Scotland in it as she tried to save England from itself whilst not giving a toss about Scots.

      “NICOLA Sturgeon is set to launch the SNP’s campaign bus which will tour Scotland in the 21 days before the local elections.”

      Don’t give the SNP any of your votes this May give your first vote to the Alba party.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20071577.nicola-sturgeon-launch-snp-campaign-bus-tour-scotland%2F

    203. Republicofscotland says:

      Don’t fall for this BS neither parties leaders are interested in Scottish independence, and SNP MP’s are now just troughers, and are embedded in Westminster.

      Come the next GE if you want out of this f*cked-up union you must vote for the Alba party.

      “A MINORITY Labour government with SNP support is currently the “central forecast” for the result of the next General Election, according to one polling expert.

      With polls picking up a swing towards Labour in England, a likely scenario in 2024 would be Labour falling short of a majority and requiring support from Nicola Sturgeon’s party to form a government.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20072544.scottish-independence-snp-backed-labour-government-central-forecast-2024-election%2F

    204. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mia 3.44 pm

      Isn’t the real issue that the English establishment, largely reflecting the views I’d say of the majority of “ordinary” English voters, is never going to accept that Scotland or indeed any other part of the UK should have a veto on something like the brexit referendum? The proposal floated before the vote that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as well as England should all have to vote Leave for it to have any effect would never have been accepted.

      Arguably, the overturning of an English Leave vote by Remain votes in the the other 3 “nations” would have been more of a democratic outrage than Scotland being forced to leave the EU despite >60% of Scots voting to Remain, particularly if the number of Leave votes in the whole UK exceeded the number of Remain votes.

      If Scots had wanted to ensure things had turned out differently, they either need to have the balls to vote for independence and apply for EU membership in their own right, or their leaders needed to be a lot cleverer in how the process and negotiations were handled. A number of people, including Rev Stu if I recall correctly, advocated that the SNP should have offered Teresa May a deal to “get brexit done” in return for concessions for Scotland like remaining part of the single market. Instead, the SNP and much of the independence movement, were content to see May’s government fall and usher in something much worse.

      The SNP engaged in a doomed attempt to frustrate brexit altogether which was never going to work, and ended up throwing away the prospect of negotiating a better deal for Scotland which could have set the stage for more “nation building” measures to put clear tartan water between the british nationalists and ourselves.

      Whatever qualms people in the movement have about Alba, or other minor pro-indy parties, they are the only routes to independence in the short to medium term unless the SNP can be “changed from within”.

      As Stu’s piece and the polling evidence shows, only slavish SNP loyalists think the party will fulfil its promise to hold #indyref2 in any reasonable timescale. “Doing an IPP” on the SNP may turn out to be the only means of making progress if the SNPs rank and file membership and activist base doesn’t perform its own night of the long knives soon. It would be good to think May’s elections will serve as the catalyst.

    205. Scott says:

      Did you hear the one about the Catholic passover?

      Tony Blair created the so-called UK Supreme court, passing over the supreme court of appeal’ from House of Lords.

      However, alert readers will have noted

      Article XIX

      And that all other Courts now in being within the Kingdom of Scotland do remain but subject to Alterations by the Parliament of Great Britain And that all Inferior Courts within the said Limits do remain subordinate as they are now to the Supream Courts of Justice within the same in all time coming And that no Causes in Scotland be cognoscible by the Courts of Chancery, Queens-Bench, Common-Pleas or any other Court in Westminster-hall And that the said Courts or any other of the like nature after the Unions shall have no power to Cognosce Review or Alter the Acts or Sentences of the Judicatures within Scotland or stop the Execution of the same

      https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aosp/1707/7?view=extent

      House of Lords had no authority as a court or court of appeal in Scotland, ever.

      [Arguable that a court created purely to bypass this while not admitting it to be so is lawful or as a supreme court for scotland]

      https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aosp/1707/7?view=extent

      Perfidious albion 0 Scotland free

      Scots law coming home, it’s coming.

    206. Ruby says:

      How long can the SNP get away with carrot dangling?

      It can’t go on forever.

      Surely there will come a time when the SNP faithful will realise they have been conned.

      Will Nicola Sturgeon be gone before that time?

      Apart from ‘Wee Ginger Dug’ is there another blog for SNP faithful?

      Any suggestions that the SNP faithful have any doubts?

    207. Scott says:

      Ellis has appeared to give his hot take on Brexit and why arguing against indy is wrong.

      “If Scots had wanted to ensure things had turned out differently” – Andyroid

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/progress-update/comment-page-1/#comment-2689908

      ‘Any damn fool can predict the past’ – Niven’s law

    208. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 3.23 pm

      “Any news regarding Craig Murray’s Alba membership?”

      Craig’s views on TRA and whether TWAW would seem to be at variance with the majority in the party, which from memory he’d already admitted, but unless he’s actually breaking party rules or doing something prohibited, what is it you’re suggesting? I suppose lots of people in political parties are opposed to parts of the platform that has been voted on and accepted by the party as a whole.

      Unless their objections are so strong that they feel they have to leave as a matter of principe – as I recall a couple of SNP MSPs did because they opposed the policy of being pro NATO membership, or they’re saying or doing something sanctionable under party rules, why would it be an issue?

      “Neither Andy Ellis nor Craig Murray have done anything to encourage me to vote Alba.”

      Anyone deciding whether to vote for a party on the basis of what individual members in the party say, is probably not someone who should be trusted to be outside without their carer, never mind trusted to vote. We heard similar bullshit from supposed “persuadables” during #indyref1 who used to love telling us that they had decided to vote No because some pro-indy person swore at them, or made fun of their Project Fear talking book points, or looked at them a bit funny.

      We treated such folk with the contempt they deserved Ruby: it still holds for those doing it on our side now. FWIW I’d be more than happy for the party not be tainted with the support of an individual as thoroughly unpleasant as you. But you’re the very definition of the “some arsehole” doctrine: just another snivelling anonymous troll who still thinks it’s edgy calling folk cunts every other sentence because you lack the intellectual capacity to engage in reasoned debate.

    209. Ruby says:

      Anyone deciding whether to vote for a party on the basis of what individual members in the party say, is probably not someone who should be trusted to be outside without their carer, never mind trusted to vote.

      What exactly are individual members of a party doing when they are out canvassing?

      I thought that one of the main Alba manifesto pledges was to support woman’s rights. Perhaps I was wrong.

      Ach it won’t matter because the Tories are going to get the woman’s vote.

      Having a high profile member like Craig Murray being opposed to woman’s rights is kinda similar to a high profile SNP member announcing that he is opposed to Independence. Many probably are but they aren’t daft enough to announce it.

      It’s ok being anti-woman but tweeting something pro-Putin merits expulsion!

    210. Mia says:

      @ Andy Ellis

      “Isn’t the real issue that the English establishment, largely reflecting the views I’d say of the majority of “ordinary” English voters, is never going to accept that Scotland or indeed any other part of the UK should have a veto on something like the brexit referendum?”

      It does not look that way at all. The vote in Westminster was in June 2015, a whole year before the EU referendum even took place and they were already giving themselves the right to veto Scotland’s, NI’s and Wales’ vote. Let’s remember that this was just 9 months after the referendum when they promised us the vow.

      If “the issue” was to abide by the views of the English voters, what they would have done at that time would be to ask the Kingdom of England if they wished to dissolve the uK and pursue brexit or preserve the UK by remaining in the EU.

      In my opinion they never cared about the views of the English voters. English voters were used to retrospectively get the result an elite had already decided when the EU taxdodgers laws regarding tax havens were about to change back in 2013, even before the referendum had taken place.

      The excuse we are being given for not holding an independence referendum in Scotland is that it has to be legally binding “legal” as Sturgeon likes to say, because otherwise the result could be overturned.

      Yet, the EU referendum was never binding. It was only advisory. There was no real obligation for Westminster to take the result forward, particularly after all the irregularities that happened during the campaign were exposed. But somebody with a lot of power had obviously a great deal of urgency for brexit to take place to escape those transparency laws.

      And guess what? The excuse used by the courts to not overturn the result in that EU referendum is that the referendum was advisory only, so the government had no obligation to take the result forward. In other words, the government was taking the result on its own accord. So because it was not legally binding, or lawful, the result stands.

      This article was published by LBC on February 2019:

      “Brexit Referendum Was Corruptly Won, But Result Stands Thanks To Loophole”

      It is from an interview of James O’Brian with Jessica Simor, the barrister that took the Government to court about Brexit:

      “”If the referendum had been legally binding, then the findings of the Electoral Commission would have rendered it invalid. Because if it’s been corruptly delivered, how on earth can we be held to it?
      But because it wasn’t binding, we can be held to something that is corruptly delivered. Woah!
      The will of the people is meaningless if the people were victims of corrupt practices or lied to.
      The court essentially found that the Prime Minister is not obliged to take account of the mounting evidence that casts doubt on the legitimacy of the referendum.”

      So, as you see, those at Westminster do not give a damn about what the average English voter wants. It was always about the wants of the taxdodgers and their beloved taxhavens. It very much looks like the decision of brexit had already been made.

      The EU referendum was just the excuse to justify brexit to the English people and to deliver the blow. In the classic undemocratic style of Westminster, the people of England was made believe brexit was their choice.

      But Brexit was won on a corrupt campaign that would have never stood a legal challenge had it been a legally binding referendum. So we will never know what the real vote intention of the English people was, and the corrupt amoebas sitting in Westminster, allegedly representing the English people, never wanted to know either, as they rejected point blank another referendum, a clean one.

      What are the chances the referendum was deliberately kept as non binding so a corrupt pro-Brexit campaign could be prepared and run and electoral law could be broken but there could not be a chance in hell of risking the result to be overturned in a court of law?

      Only that would explain that those involved in a corrupt campaign ended up then anywhere near the cabinet, one of them as the most senior advisor and de facto chief of staff to the PM, despite being held in contempt of parliament. Only that would explain that the ERG gang ended up ruling the rooster at Westminster.

      You will have formed your own opinion as I have formed mine, but this was also included in the above article:

      “Ms Simor added: “It’s slightly worse than that. The High Court found that we were too late. They said we should have brought the claim three months after the expenses had been lodged at the Electoral Commission, which was December 2016.
      But at that point, nobody knew anything about this.
      We’ve been told we had to do something which was impossible. And would have failed at that point because it was impossible.”

      Just for info, the Electoral Commission only released its verdict that Vote Leave had broken electoral law on 17 July 2018. This was 2 years too late for any challenge to that referendum to be brought to court.
      Was this accidental delay or a case of setting any challenge of the brexit result to fail, perhaps because they knew they would not be able to pull the same trick twice?

      You say “The proposal floated before the vote that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as well as England should all have to vote Leave for it to have any effect would never have been accepted”

      It would have been accepted if those sitting in Westminster were real democrats instead of a gang of self-serving amoebas that do as they are told and who are obsessed with preserving the union at the expense of the needs of the people in that union.

      The only reason why it could not be accepted is because brexit had already been decided and it was evident at that time Scotland would never vote to leave the EU and would make brexit impossible unless England exited the EU on its own.

      England exiting the EU on its own would risk a hard border with Scotland, Ireland and France unless it remained attached somewhat to the EU and kept the freedom of movement. But that would probably come together with the EU transparency laws, which is what the elite was trying to avoid.

      A hard border would mean England losing a huge chunk of what it considers an extension of its domestic market (Scotland). Without oil or assets to sell, and without any meaningful trade deal, the chances of England keeping afloat economically in the short term were very limited. Needless to say that without Scotland’s assets propping Sterling and with England’s huge deficit of trade of goods, the currency would most probably tank.

      I just hope the English voters open their eyes and one day they hold their rotten self-serving elite, tax havens and the suckers they elected as MPs to account for putting taxdodgers’ interests ahead of those of the country.

      “Arguably, the overturning of an English Leave vote by Remain votes in the the other 3 “nations” would have been more of a democratic outrage than Scotland being forced to leave the EU despite >60% of Scots voting to Remain, particularly if the number of Leave votes in the whole UK exceeded the number of Remain votes”

      That is utterly ridiculous, Ellis and I am actually shocked that you can bring yourself to say such that disrespect the vote in Scotland is less undemocratic than disrespect the vote in England. The democratic rights of the people of Scotland are not subordinate to those of the people of England nor inferior. The right and democratic thing here to do would have been, knowing that Scotland and England wanted to follow different paths, to allow them to follow different paths. But as I said above, this would mean England having to survive on its own out of the EU making it very, very difficult to justify indulging the taxdodgers.

      It was never about democracy. It was always about taxdodgers, taxhavens and the fact that England needs Scotland to survive economically much more that their pride would ever allow them to admit.

      “If Scots had wanted to ensure things had turned out differently, they either need to have the balls to vote for independence and apply for EU membership in their own right”

      I disagree. The Scots did the right thing, which was to vote for what they thought it was best, to remain in the EU. The failure here is not on the Scottish people, but on the greed of the English ruling elite, on their corrupt useful idiots that lied to us during the 2014 indyref campaign, on the unprincipled and undemocratic amoebas claiming to be England MPs but indulging the taxdodgers at the expense of the voters and on the betrayers in the SNP who, sent to protect Scotland’s interests and sent to keep Scotland in the EU, engaged in doing the precise opposite.

      If the SNP with 56 MPs and the power to bring the treaty of union to an end did not stop brexit is because they did not want to.

      “The SNP engaged in a doomed attempt to frustrate brexit”.

      the SNP never intended to stop brexit seriously. If they had wanted to do so that vote on the June 2015 would have never happened.

      “Whatever qualms people in the movement have about Alba, or other minor pro-indy parties, they are the only routes to independence”

      This must be the very first thing I agree with you on. We need the 2024 GE to become a plebiscite. We need to be able to vote for independence so we need these parties to commit to include the end the treaty of union in their manifesto if a majority of equally committed MPs of whichever party are elected.

      “unless the SNP can be “changed from within”.
      It is too late for that. Under “madame procrastination” the democratic structures of the party have been corrupted so the membership has been neutered of power to change things and to change the leadership. The SNP is like the titanic. Rearranging the chairs are not going to save it. It is wounded below water line. From here there is only one way and that is down. Presumably that is how madame procrastination wanted it.

      “As Stu’s piece and the polling evidence shows, only slavish SNP loyalists think the party will fulfil its promise to hold #indyref2”

      I have to be honest Mr Ellis. I seriously question how many of those “SNP loyalists” could actually be unionists pretending to be indy supporters.

      Has anybody seen the list of SNP members at present?

      How much would cost the powers that be to buy membership for, say, 100,000 imaginary SNP members? And would that be something cost-effective when you are desperately trying to keep Scotland’s assets at hand at the most critical moment for England since 1706?

      £500,000 or even £1,000,000 is a bargain. Hell, they have already lost that amount many times over with the civil and the criminal case against Mr Salmond.

      What are the odds the SNP is controlled from the other side of the Hadrian wall and has been that way since Sturgeon took over?

      If we should have learned something is that politics in the UK is all smoke and mirrors.

      It is my opinion this woman is simply buying time until all our policies are re-written to make it impossible for us to return to the EU, the control of our assets in the hands of those deemd “safe hands” by the British state’s powers that be and we are being forced to abandon the idea of independence in exchange for some form of augmented devolution.

      England will fight a savage war to prevent us returning to the EU and putting a hard border that will deprive it of our chunk of “her” domestic market. How many English products are in our shelves? Shouldn’t Scotland’s shelves have more Scottish produce than English ones? Why is that not the case?

      If you want independence you have to offer an even worse alternative to the potential hard border, loss of control over Scotland’s assets and loss of Scotland’s market:

      the end of the treaty of union and with it the end of every treaty, every agreement, every trade deal the UK has still extant and every seat in international committees.

      Will the Sturgeonites ever find the courage to enter that challenge?

      No. They have given up before even starting.

    211. Ruby says:

      “We heard similar bullshit from supposed “persuadables” during #indyref1 who used to love telling us that they had decided to vote No because some pro-indy person swore at them, or made fun of their Project Fear talking book points, or looked at them a bit funny.”

      I am not a ‘supposed persuadable’ I can be persauded ‘any party that respects my sex gets my X.

      I can see you are not interested as a Alba founder member in persuading me and that’s your choice. I can just vote Tory for women’s rights. Are you going to be out chapping doors for Alba prior to the May election?

    212. Mia says:

      @ Ruby

      You can be absolutely certain that the tories will not get my woman’s vote nor that of any in my household.

      Hell will freeze before I give my vote to the wankers responsible for the astronomical increase in my weekly food bill, the worsening of the quality of the ingredients I have to use when I cook (and throw away because they are so awful they don’t last half of the time they used to) and of course the extortionate ramping up of our energy bills, so the wankers can harvest from us as much VAT as they can to put a plaster on the crater-size hole they caused with their stupidity of brexit on the UK finances. And all becasue the wankers chose to indulge taxdodgers instead of doing what they were elected to do, which is acting in the interests of the average voter.

      I consider as much my right as a woman to not be concerned about
      the risk of encountering any uninvited penis wondering around in the public toilets when I am using them, as I consider my right as a working mother to be able to buy and cook decent food for my children and to afford heating my house and have a warm shower and a cup of tea when I want to.

      It seems that the “great” concern of the tories for working women stops at the public toilets’ door but does not reach the rest of the house or our purse.

    213. Robert Hughes says:

      Mia @ 7.07 ( Pity you weren’t around in 1707 )

      ” It is my opinion this woman is simply buying time until all our policies are re-written to make it impossible for us to return to the EU, the control of our assets in the hands of those deemd “safe hands” by the British state’s powers that be and we are being forced to abandon the idea of independence in exchange for some form of augmented devolution.”

      I , like many others , have thought this for some time . Impossible to be 100% certain, but that’s exactly what it looks like . A holding position , long enough for the things you mention to unfold and for people to completely lose interest in the whole Independence project . I know people who have already done so ; not to say their interest couldn’t be reignited if there was a real opportunity and an energised campaign behind it .

      If the explanation for Sturgeon’s behaviour is more mundane we have to believe she is most hopeless, incompetent * Leader * in Scottish history . If not the history of the world .

      So she either knows EXACTLY what she’s doing or doesn’t have a scintilla of clue .

      My money’s on the former .

    214. John Main says:

      @Mia 7:07

      That’s quite a post. I decided to return with a one-word reply, summarising my response. First, I thought:

      “Wow!”

      But I have decided this is better:

      “Really?”

      Try to imagine the stress on the second syllable, with a rising inflection. Even better, try to imagine it, if you can, voiced by Stewie from Family Guy. Go on, try it:

      “Reallllyyyyyy?????”

      You have a great WE, Mia.

    215. James Che. says:

      Scott.

      Apologies for delay in responding, was painting the fence and on the phone to Alba member discussing this issue,

      In a nut shell.

      The original articles were agreed and inacted under the parliament of Scotland and the parliament of England, no matter what had taken place or hoped for afterwards in the Great British parliament.

      When the english parliament closed its doors, it closed its doors on the original treaty articles,
      Before the other parliament was created.

      Hence the treaty of the union and its articles cannot be a living breathing document from the English parliament of 1707.

      There was also a substantsial gap.

      Then another matter arises.

      1: Is Englands parliament of 1707 suggesting it did not close its parliament in 1707 as it stated it did. But just tranferred itself to be the new British Parliament?

      2: or is the great british parliament claiming the 1707 English parliament is the Great British Parliament.

      Thus meaning that the British Parliament is actually a continuation of the English parliament officially.
      Which title do they go by?

      The 1ist one would void the treaty of the union articles

      The 2nd choice would also void the treaty of the union Articles.

      Everything that was wrote down by the old English Parliament ceased in existence after 1706/07 officially ,
      Even the promise of a new Great British Parliament. The treaty of the union and the all the articles themselves included thereof. all ceased
      When England voluntary gave up its Parliament. before the the creation of the new envisaged GREAT BRITISH parliament
      And the creation of the new Great British parliament could not be made legal by the old English parliament until ( they )ceased.

      The Articles of the treaty of the union were not meant to be repealed, i totally agree with you .

      However there is no doubt there has been a legal slip up on the part of the old English Parliament, They were without any Legal Parliament for a brief period.
      No matter how brief,
      It broke the the treaty of the union between the old english parliament and the Scottish parliament
      Scotland signed a treaty of union with the old English Parliament which voluntary ceased its existence.
      And i reiterate, this means the treaty document ceased to be a living breathing document in the manner you suggest.

      The Scottish parliament meanwhile never agreed to any different treaty with the newly formed Great British parliament..
      Nor did it close the doors it’s of parliament in Scotland. But continues to exist in its country today.

    216. Ruby says:

      Mia says:
      15 April, 2022 at 7:41 pm

      @ Ruby

      You can be absolutely certain that the tories will not get my woman’s vote nor that of any in my household.

      Fair enough but do the council have control over quality/price of food & cost of heating?

    217. Ruby says:

      Mia

      I don’t have many concerns about men using ladies toilets. Everyone gets a private cubicle and if you ‘encounter any ‘uninvited penis’ or a camera under the door you can report them to the police for indecent exposure & voyeurism.

      The communal changing rooms, hospital wards, refuges & prisons are a much more serious issue ‘indecent exposure & voyeurism will be 100 legal.

      School changing rooms will be mixed sex as will all sport. See my earlier post.

    218. Ruby says:

      Do they still do Scottish Country dancing/dancing in schools as part of PE?

      I wonder how teenage boys will get on dancing with transgirls. The ones I went to school with were never happy dancing with girls perhaps they will be prefer dancing with transgirls & nonbinary persons.

      I don’t suppose they will get a chance to choose their partner.

    219. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mia 7.07 pm

      TL:DR. honestly if you can’t express yourself without a superabundance of words in response to reasonably simple arguments, don’t expect folk to wade through them for the nuggets that might be in there…..

    220. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 6.43 pm

      “Having a high profile member like Craig Murray being opposed to woman’s rights is kinda similar to a high profile SNP member announcing that he is opposed to Independence. Many probably are but they aren’t daft enough to announce it.”

      I think Craig Murray’s view on the matter is wrong and suspect the majority of Alba members agree with me and you on this issue. I doubt Craig’s views on this matter have much support at all in the party at all generally, so would disagree with your assertion that many do. Certainly none that I’m aware of. He is however just one person, however high profile: he isn’t setting policy or representing his views as what Alba policy is, or even should be to my knowledge.

      “It’s ok being anti-woman but tweeting something pro-Putin merits expulsion!”

      I doubt Craig sees his views on the matter as anti-women. If I felt he was, or was advancing views or policies which were, I’d certainly be happy to see him condemned for them, and if appropriate sanctioned or even expelled if it was merited.

      Being pro-Putin should in my view, and that of others I know in the party, be cause for expulsion. Saying “Putin is your hero” as the former candidate in Fife did before he jumped or was pushed, or – to use a pertinent example from here – if a member was to say what Putin’s Poodle in here said that “the Ukrainians had it coming” would also merit disciplinary action.

      I don’t think having to defend the party at the doors when people hear members saying they think Russia had a point that the Ukraine needed denazified, or demilitarised, or accepting the Kremlin’s disinformation about there being no civilian deaths, or them being staged by the Ukrainians themselves etc., etc. is something that should be condoned or even acceptable.

    221. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 7.14 pm

      “I am not a ‘supposed persuadable’ I can be persauded ‘any party that respects my sex gets my X.”

      You’re not a persuadable then. Deciding not to vote for Alba, but Conservative instead, on the basis of one issue is your prerogative. Making that decision based on the views of one person – who is not an office bearer and whose personal opinions on GRA do not reflect party policy or the views of most members – is not rational.

      It’s exactly analogous to the situation I summarised earlier with some supposed persuadable voters in #indyref1. Either they weren’t being honest, or they were just beyond reason. It wouldn’t surprise me if either or both of the above applied to you in this situation given your MO.

      “I can see you are not interested as a Alba founder member in persuading me and that’s your choice. I can just vote Tory for women’s rights. Are you going to be out chapping doors for Alba prior to the May election?”

      I don’t believe your faux sincerity and suspect your motives. Considering voting Tory because you wrongly assert they are the only party advocating for the protection of women’s rights is just plain wrong, and tells us everything we need to know about what kind of person your are. I’d tell anyone spouting the same line to their face that it was bullshit, here or anywhere else.

      Alba doesn’t need closet Tories any more than it needs Putinistas without functional moral compasses. Happy to clear that up.

    222. TONNA says:

      Point to make before the campaign.

      The SNP £20 child payment will be snatched from the pram by Susan Aitkens 3 per cent council tax rise in Glasgow. And the Tartan Tory Car Park Tax.

    223. TONNA says:

      Susan Aitken SNP.

      The child payment snatcher.

    224. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Anyone else here subscribing to Graham Linehan’s “Glinner” email updates?

      This is the sort of thing Mairi Black was promoting via “Flowjob” in schools.

      Worth a read, to see why they are not putting on this “Family Sex”show in schools (vetting, etc).

      https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/nope?s=r

    225. Ruby says:

      “I doubt Craig sees his views on the matter as anti-women.”

      Probably not but I do and he does see my views and those of other women on the matter as being anti-trans.

      I would have been happier if Alba being that you claim so many are opposed to Craig Murray’s views had spoken out about his comments.

      I am not a member of Alba so the only interest Alba should have with me is whether or not I will vote for them. Not whether I swear am sincere spout bullshit or am a closet Tory.

      You decided what kind of person I was long before I expressed an interested in the Tories views on women’s rights. One day if I can be bothered I might go back and list all the ways you have described me on this forum. Expect a post longer than anything Mia has posted which you couldn’t be bothered to read.

      I really don’t think Putin is going to be an issue in the council elections.

      My decision who to vote for will be based on one issue only. As far as potholes, bins, & all the other council stuff is concerned I don’t think it makes a blind bit of differnce who is voted in. I expect most people feel the same and that is why turn out is always so low in council elections. We just expect anything the council does regardless of party will always just be shit.

    226. Mia says:

      @John Main

      “Really?”

      Well, google (James O’Brian and Brexit Referendum was corruptly won) and you should easily arrive to the article/interview I was talking about. It was published on the 25 February 2019.

      You can then google (Electoral commission and Brexit: Vote leave broke electoral law) and you should arrive to the BBC News article that tells you how vote leave broke electoral law:

      “Bob Posner, from the Electoral Commission, said: “We found substantial evidence that the two groups worked to a common plan, did not declare their joint working and did not adhere to the legal spending limits. These are serious breaches of the laws put in place by Parliament to ensure fairness and transparency at elections and referendums.

      He added: “Vote Leave has resisted our investigation from the start, including contesting our right as the statutory regulator to open the investigation. It has refused to cooperate, refused our requests to put forward a representative for interview, and forced us to use our legal powers to compel it to provide evidence.

      Nevertheless, the evidence we have found is clear and substantial, and can now be seen in our report.”

      This article also tells you:

      “The referendum was not legally binding, merely “advisory,” according to a Supreme Court judgement in December 2016, so it can’t be ordered to be re-run by a court – any decision to have a fresh referendum would have to be made by the government and Parliament would have to pass a referendum act”

      And this:

      “In a quote since removed from the Aggregate IQ website, Vote Leave campaign director Dominic Cummings said: “We couldn’t have done it without them.”

      If you google (Cummings and contempt of parliament) you get this article “Dominic Cummings found in contempt of parliament
      Ex-director of Vote Leave faces admonishment for refusing to appear at MPs’ committee” Published in the Guardian on 27 March 2019

      The article says this:

      “Dominic Cummings, the former director of the official leave campaign, has been ruled to be in contempt of parliament after failing to appear before MPs investigating fake news.

      The House of Commons committee of privileges said Cummings’ refusal to give oral evidence to MPs constituted a significant interference in the work of the inquiry”

      I don’t need to tell you that despite being found in contempt of parliament and being the director of the Leave Campaign which was found to have broken electoral law, Cummings ended up being the most senior advisor to the PM.

      Here are some interesting dates:

      2 March 2012, the European Council called on the Council and the Commission to develop ways of improving the fight against tax fraud and evasion.

      June 2012 – deadline for the EU council and commission to report, including with specific ideas on how to better tackle tax havens and aggressive tax planning

      In June 2012, nearly 100 Conservative MPs called for a referendum ‘on the nature of our relationship with the European Union’

      On 6 December 2012, the European Commission presented an Action Plan for a more effective EU response to tax evasion and avoidance. The Commission also adopted two Recommendations:

      1. a strong EU stance against tax havens, going beyond the international measures at the time. Using common criteria, Member States are encouraged to identify tax havens and place them on national blacklists. Specified measures to persuade these non-EU countries to apply EU governance standards were also set out

      2. Clamp on Aggressive Tax Planning. It suggests ways to address legal technicalities and loopholes which some companies exploit to avoid paying their fair share.

      1 January 2013 – stronger EU rules against tax evasion enter into force. One of the key aspects of the Directive is that it brings an end to bank secrecy: one Member State cannot refuse to give information to another just because it is held by a financial institution.

      23 January 2013 Cameron announced an in/out referendum.

      May 2013- Cameron wrote to leaders of Britain’s tax havens saying:
      “I respect your right to be lower tax jurisdictions. I believe passionately in lower taxes as a vital driver of growth and prosperity for all. But lower taxes are only sustainable if what is owed is actually paid – and if the rules to achieve this are set and enforced fairly to create a level playing field right across the world. There is no point in dealing with tax evasion in one country if the problem is simply displaced to another.”

      (This was published in a Guardian article “David Cameron writes to Britain’s tax havens, calling for transparency” published on the 20th May 2013

      May 2013, the Tories published a draft EU referendum bill and present plans for a EU in-out vote if they were to win the 2015 elections. In the bill they stated that the vote would have to be before the 31 December 2017.

      13 June 2013-the EU commission proposed extending the automatic exchange of information between EU countries to intensify the fight against tax evasion. Under this new proposal, dividends, capital gains, financial income and account balances would be subjected to information exchange within the EU.

      In April 2016 the article “Cameron stepped in to shield offshore trusts from EU tax crackdown in 2013” was published in the Guardian. It said:

      “David Cameron intervened personally to prevent offshore trusts from being dragged into an EU-wide crackdown on tax avoidance, it has emerged.

      In a letter to the then president of the European council, Herman Van Rompuy, the prime minister said that trusts should not automatically be subject to the same transparency requirements as companies”

      The letter was written by Cameron on the 14 November 2013

      The article also said:
      “Judith Sargentini, a Dutch MEP who led the European parliament’s work on the draft law, told the Financial Times that the UK’s argument against a crackdown on trusts was that it would be an invasion of privacy – and that trusts have a special role in Britain in helping families manage issues around inheritance.
      I saw it [the British position] as a danger and a possible loophole,” Sargentini said. “Some member states saw it as an underhand way for the UK to get an advantage.”

      You can guess from this that the request of Mr Cameron to exclude the tax havens from the transparency laws was rejected.
      The letter was written on 14 November 2013

      On 25 November 2013 the European commission announced that Member States were expected to implement the amended Directive (Tackling Tax Avoidance: Commission tightens key EU corporate tax rules) by 31 December 2014.

      The Scottish independence referendum act was passed on November 2013. Received Royal Assent in December 2013.

      18 September 2014 – Scotland’s independence referendum

      In January 2015, the EU Commission put forward an “Anti-Tax Avoidance Package” including a draft Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive designed to provide legally binding measures for Member States to tackle avoidance.

      January 2016 – The European Commission proposes for first time a EU list of non-cooperative third countries.

      20 February 2016 – Cameron announces the date of the eU referendum

      On 12 April 2016, the European Commission released a proposal on what is called public country-by country reporting (CBCR) for multinational corporations. This would increase corporate and tax transparency and would enable citizens worldwide to
      ‘follow the money’, contribution also to ensure taxes are paid where they are due.

      23 June 2016 – EU referendum

      12 July 2016 – the anti-tax avoidance directive was formally accepted by the EU

      15 July 2016 –
      First EU list of non-cooperative third countries is published

      29 March 2017 – A50 was invoked.

      On 4 July 2017, the European Parliament adopted its report on the draft proposal.

      5 December 2017 – The first ever EU list of non-cooperative tax jurisdictions was agreed by Member States

      30 December 2018 this was published “Tory Jeremy Hunt says Brexit Britain should be like ‘low tax haven’ Singapore” – The mirror. The article says:

      “Singapore has long been touted as a model for the UK after EU withdrawal by fervent Brexiteers such as former minister Owen Paterson, who last year wrote that Britain should adopt its “low-tax, low-spend, low-regulation” policies .”

      On January 1, 2019, the EU Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive (“ATAD”) went into effect. This required significant Changes to National Tax Laws of the Member States

      14 March 2019 – European Parliament resolution on the urgency for an EU blacklist of third countries in line with the Anti-Money Laundering Directive (2019/2612(RSP))

      Initial brexit date expected to be 29 March 2019

      In March 2019, the European
      Parliament closed the first reading of the file, in recognition that the Council was unlikely to reach agreement
      before the European elections in May 2019.

      1 January 2020 – deadline for the EU member states to implement the “amending Directive (EU) 2016/1164 as regards hybrid mismatches with third countries” into their national law

      31 January 2020 – the UK finally left the EU

      1 January 2021 – “The UK has already relaxed its laws preventing tax abuse as it makes clear its intention to wage tax war on the world post-Brexit” published in Richard Murphy’s blog Tax REsearch UK

      February 2022 – announcement of 2 freeports in Scotland (freeports – special areas where different economic regulations apply)

      There is plenty more, but you can join the dots.

    227. Mia says:

      “Fair enough but do the council have control over quality/price of food & cost of heating?”

      The councils may not, but the masters in London of the tory and to less extent labour useful idiots contesting seats in the councils do.

      My vote was never meant to be a message to the monkey, It is a message to the organ grinder.

    228. Robert Hughes says:

      BDTT @ 10.18

      That * Play * sounds truly repellent , as is the language used to describe/justify it’s content . Like they’ve tried to preempt every – instinctive – objection and , as G.L says , frame such objections as a lack of understanding on the part of the viewer .

      Yes , the dim , unsophisticated public is the problem , it just doesn’t dig these radical artists and requires to be educated in the rewriting of social mores , the deconstruction of long-held moral values . Or some such other pish .

      From utter garbage like this * play * to the lowering of the age eligible to stand for election to Parliament to extremely intrusive/unnecessary * Sex Education * in schools – including Primary schools- there is a concerted attack occurring on what are – rightly – considered acceptable age constraints on the promotion of adult * interests * and behaviours .

      We can speculate where all this is coming from and why it’s gaining such power and acceptance from those in positions of authority but what should be of immediate concern to us is the SNP/GOV’s embrace and promotion of this shit , the damage it could/will inflict on our children in particular and society in general and , when it becomes more widely known , our hopes for Independence

    229. Ruby says:

      Mia says:
      15 April, 2022 at 11:47 pm

      “Fair enough but do the council have control over quality/price of food & cost of heating?”

      The councils may not, but the masters in London of the tory and to less extent labour useful idiots contesting seats in the councils do.

      My vote was never meant to be a message to the monkey, It is a message to the organ grinder.

      The organ grinder isn’t listening. We could be down to zero elected Tories in Scotland and it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference. Scotland has English votes for Scottish laws. That was most apparent when we had English votes for Brexit. What can we do about it? Not a lot when we have an absolute dud being voted in as leader.

    230. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 10.34 pm

      As you say, you’re not a member of Alba, so you don’t really have any way of expressing your opposition to the fact that one of their members disagrees with you apart from telling them it means you can’t vote for them. I suspect (though don’t know as I’m just a member not an office holder) that if asked they would say they’re sorry any woman would vote Tory instead of Alba purely because one member – however prominent – holds views on one topic that they disagree with.

      The position of the party, and of the vast majority of members I’ve spoken to and seen discussing the matter on social media, aligns with yours. If your position on this particular issue is so “high ground” that you’re prepared to vote Tory, with all their policy positions other than women’s rights that you probably disagree with, I don’t really know what to say to you.

      The position you’re taking looks and feels unreasonable, but we’re talking about a person who feels it is reasonable to pepper her posts with the word cunt as freely as most people use conjunctions, so there is that. I doubt Alba will lose much sleep over your failure to support them.

    231. Ruby says:

      I wanted to have a look at what SNP supporters were saying about the possibility of there being a 2nd IndyRef. I wanted to see if any of them had any doubts. The only SNP supporting blog I knew of was ‘Wee Ginger Dug’ so I had a look there.

      All his articles were about the Tories. Pretty much just an extended version of what Sturgeon keeps saying about the Tories. The Tories are liars, scum, immoral, evil, charlatans, not fit for office etc etc. In the middle of the many articles about the evil Tories there was one called
      Jim Sillars: The ego has crash landed I don’t know the full details I couldn’t be bothered reading the whole article but it seems Jim had the audacity to criticise the SNP/Greens.

      I wonder what purpose these article serve. Are SNP supporters being prepared for a knock back from the Tories when Sturgeon requests a section 30 for IndyRef2.

      Will this knock back just lead to more articles about the evil Tories?

      I suppose asking about the chances of the lying immoral, evil, charlatan, Tory scum being fair regarding giving Scotland a section thirty would be against the rules.

      This is your reminder that the purpose of this blog is to promote Scottish independence. If the comment you want to make will not assist with that goal then don’t post it. If you want to mouth off about how much you dislike the SNP leadership there are other forums where you can do that. You’re not welcome to do it here.

    232. Mia says:

      “The organ grinder isn’t listening”

      I couldn’t disagree more. They are listening, and that is why they encourage strategic voting whenever they can, that is why they are investing so much of our taxpayers’ money into churning anti-independence propaganda and trolling pro-indy sites.

      I am actually of the opinion that this GRA nonsense is being exploited as a trojan horse to fabricate support for the tories and engineer the appearance of pro-union support in Scotland. And that is why I will never fall for the faux concern of the tories. They will be the ones I will vote for last in May. The Labour candidate will be second to last.

      “We could be down to zero elected Tories in Scotland and it wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference”
      Zero elected tories and zero elected Labour in Scotland sounds like something worthwhile voting for.

      “Scotland has English votes for Scottish laws”
      And that is why we want to work towards zero elected tories and zero elected labour in every single political platform we have the opportunity to vote in. The May local elections are as good an opportunity to start with such an enterprise as any other.

      “What can we do about it?”
      To find candidates willing to stand for the repeal of the treaty of union and then getting them to stand for the next GE.

      “Not a lot when we have an absolute dud being voted in as leader”

      Well, if the cowards sitting in the party are so complacent that cannot possibly bring themselves to lift their backside from the comforts of the parliamentary seats and save the party by ditching a useless leader who is indulging in destroying their party, then the route for us to follow couldn’t be clearer:

      we need to bypass the party with the complacent cowards altogether and give our support to pro-independence alternatives. The sooner we start, the sooner we will get to where we want to be: in Scotland as an independent sate. Zero elected tories and zero elected Labour are just a nice bonus.

      This May election seems like a great place to start on both aims, don’t you agree?

    233. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      The position you’re taking looks and feels unreasonable, but we’re talking about a person who feels it is reasonable to pepper her posts with the word cunt as freely as most people use conjunctions, so there is that. I doubt Alba will lose much sleep over your failure to support them.

      Yawn! Do you think you’ll ever get over me pointing out that I think you are a cunt?
      Why so upset? Is it a case of the truth hurting?”

      What is a conjuction? Is it thon eye infection that the layman calls ‘Pink Eye?

      You must agree that the the lying immoral, evil, charlatan, Tory scum certainly know how to spot a vote winner?

    234. Ruby says:

      This May election seems like a great place to start on both aims, don’t you agree?

      Did we not start this way back in 2011?

      Time for a new plan don’t you agree Mia?

    235. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 9.41 am

      Most people have in-built filters for that sort of thing though Ruby. Regurgitating whatever abuse pops in to your head just makes you look like the thing you pepper your every utterance with in here. It’s like some pre-adolescent who has just discovered swearing.

      It’s not the use of the odd swear word that anyone has in issue with, least of all here given Rev Stu’s fine way with invective when it is merited. Overuse – particularly in virtually every other sentence – just makes you look and sound like Edna the Inebriate, but with half the charm. Less is more Rubes…in your case, preferably a lot less.

      Back to the point…..It is indeed true that Tories have often been adept at “spotting a winner”, but then so too have the SNP in recent times. The Sturgeonites appear to have made a calculation that making the TWAW mantra an article of faith either gains them more support amongst the candy floss haired Twitler Youth than it loses them elsewhere.

      Alternatively they see the amount of women’s votes it loses them as either acceptable because they see those opposing it as “transphobes” and thus beyond the pale politically, and/or they don’t think the issue will be one that breaks through to affect the mass of voters.

    236. Dorothy Devine says:

      BDTT, that link should be made available to a very wide audience of parents , grandparents and police.

    237. Breeks says:


      Ruby says:
      16 April, 2022 at 9:25 am

      ….. The only SNP supporting blog I knew of was ‘Wee Ginger Dug’ so I had a look there.

      Kirk of Blind Devotion over there Ruby, brains not so much. As the expression goes, “There are none so blind as those who will not see”.

      I think the error for a long time was believing these people were gradualists, when we should have been calling them “gulliblists”.

    238. John Main says:

      @Mia 11:39

      Respect, you’ve done your homework.

      OK, so just as a working assumption for now, let’s hypothetically accept that the UK was finagled into leaving the EU by shadowy figures intent on preserving the status of those tax havens associated with the UK.

      How is the rEU campaign to reign in their tax havens going? Any spectacular advances there?

      Of far more interest to ordinary people, how is the rEU getting on with persuading household-name multinationals to pay some of the eye-watering sums they routinely avoid paying in tax? You know, these companies, some of which we encounter almost every day, with turnovers exceeding some countries, that pay hardly any tax.

      My view is that if the rEU is continuing with “business as usual”, even without our shadowy influencers spoking their wheels, then the entire “regulate tax havens” story won’t fly.

      There has to be some evidence that rEU citizens are seeing a difference, either in better public services (more tax take), or, gasp, in lower taxes (fairer tax burden on all reduces the demand on those at the bottom).

    239. sarah says:

      @ BDTT at 10.18 p.m.: that theatre company should be closed down immediately. Where’s the Lord Chancellor when you need him/her?

      The only people who will “enjoy” that performance will be the cast who are being paid and an audience of perverts.

    240. John Main says:

      @Andy Ellis 10:36 am

      The Tories believe that someone who can’t answer the question “What is a party?” is more palatable to the average punter than someone who can’t answer the question “What is a woman?”.

      TBH, that’s a belief that’s hard to fault.

      We’re not talking about political sophisticates here. We’re talking about people who decide when they have the ballot box pencil in their hand.

    241. Mia says:

      “Did we not start this way back in 2011?”

      Nope. In 2011 the route was a referendum. But then at that time we had a proper leader in charge of the SNP who actually delivered the referendum instead of a dilettante batting for the other side and desperately seeking excuses to not delivering it.

      It has now come to the attention of many yes supporters that a referendum is no longer the route to take us to independence, particularly under the present SNP leadership. This is because they appear to be morphing the idea of a referendum from being a fair exercise in self determination of the Scottish people into an excuse to delay independence indefinitely, by means of fake and imaginary vetos handed over to England MPs, until we give up on the idea.

      That at least appears to be the hope of the tories, judging by the recent intervention of Murdo Fraser in a GB interview. Another reason why pro independence women should never waste their vote in the tories. Because if you want independence, a vote for the tories or labour will be a waste.

      We cannot discard the possibility that a corrupt leadership desperate to stop independence, might allow the inclusion of a third option in the ballot to divide the yes vote and send us packing with some form of enhanced devolution as the ultimate damage limitation exercise to stop independence.

      8 years of no progress towards independence despite more than enough majorities to deliver independence three times over, makes it clear that we need a different route other than a hijacked referendum.

      An alternative is a parliamentary election which is simultaneously a plebiscite on independence. How do we do this? By finding candidates willing to stand on a manifesto to repeal the treaty of union.
      This was the policy of the SNP until around 2007.

      “Time for a new plan don’t you agree Mia?”
      Absolutely. Demanding the SNP to revert to its old policy that a majority of MPs is a mandate to end the union, before we cast our first vote for them seems like a great plan to me. If the SNP under the present leadership is not willing to do that and the SNP MPs/MSPs are just too coward to chuck that leadership out and bring forward a proper pro indy one, then we just have to turn our sight to alternative indy parties.

      Unfortunately Alba is the only one standing in my ward, therefore they will be getting my first vote.

      As far as I am concerned, from a pro-independence woman’s perspective, tories or labour should never be considered part of any plan.

    242. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 10.48 am

      “There has to be some evidence that rEU citizens are seeing a difference, either in better public services (more tax take), or, gasp, in lower taxes (fairer tax burden on all reduces the demand on those at the bottom).”

      I wonder….? From the point of view of creating “more equal societies” – assuming that’s what people actually want and aren’t the kind of Tories who think society doesn’t exist – it kind of assumes expropriation of some of the wealth of those who have it, be they the ultra rich or corporations, and the redistribution of that wealth to those who don’t have it. As you say, the current rEU hasn’t been noticeably successful in making multi-nationals stump up, but there again neither has anyone else.

      People can also be persuaded that higher taxes and better public services on the Scandinavian model is supportable. Wresting control of more of the world’s wealth from the 1% isn’t going to be easy: they’re not just going to hand it over without a struggle or any moves to hide it, move it and tie it up in Byzantine structures to ensure it can’t be accessed let alone taxed.

      Most people instinctively agree with the proposition that companies should make a contribution and “pay their way”. Similarly they will agree that the super rich – whether Russian oligarchs, middle Eastern sheiks, tech billionaires, aristocracies and “old money” or anyone else with vast wealth, should have to pay a reasonable share of tax on their income. Making it happen and enforcing any system you come up with at an international level is another matter. The EU and a few other major economies could and should make a start of course: the UK in particular should ensure it’s colonial dependencies who launder so much of the hidden and expropriated wealth are made to cooperate, as should the City of London, the Swiss and others.

      Perhaps the war in the Ukraine presents an opportunity: if the global system is seeing a fundamental shift, with Russia being cast out of the G20 and a realignment taking place, then some progress can be expected.

    243. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 10.56 am

      I agree with you to an extent. Folk rarely vote on single issues, unless they are particularly energised or outraged, as we wee with our sweary friend Ruby.

      Most will I suppose take a range of issues in to account and/or vote they way they generally do or how their parents did, or will take in to account how they feel the “current lot” are doing with the economy and whether they are better off.

      Local elections aren’t something I can get too excited about I’m afraid: there is something to be said for voting in candidates who are competent in solving local issues and who are independents rather than party political.

      It is pretty remarkable that the SNP, Labour, LibDems and Greens have fallen hook line and sinker for the gender woo prospectus. On one level it leaves me pretty queasy that only the Tories and Alba are left supporting women’s rights and scientific reality, but I doubt most independence supporters would be able to stomach voting Tory on the flawed logic used by a minority of zealots like Ruby who hold Alba accountable for the beliefs of one individual.

      As you correctly observe, however odd people who are politically more active and involved find it, many ordinary folk don’t vote, will never vote or even if they do will decide who to vote for at the last minute or for reasons many of us would find hard to fathom. Such is democracy…! 🙂

    244. Mia says:

      @John Main

      “How is the rEU campaign to reign in their tax havens going? Any spectacular advances there?”

      Well, if you are that interested in the matter, why don’t you research it yourself?

      I may have completely misinterpreted your intentions here, but from where I am standing it comes across as an attempt to distract me from the subject matter, what really concerns me, into a timewasting goose chase.

      Sorry, I do not have neither the interest nor the inclination to do so. But by all means, if you are interested, don’t let me stop you. Research on the subject to your heart’s content.

      What concerns me is that:

      a) the UK parliament was used as a tool to de-democratise what should be a democratic exercise with the purpose of gagging the Scottish people into silence on the matter of the EU

      b) There appears to be a very high likelihood from what I can see of what has been published that the English people might have been coerced into voting for the opposite they wanted thanks to a deliberate campaign of obfuscation, disinformation, misinformation, fearmongering and psyops

      c) There appears to be a likelihood that the fate of the UK out of the EU was already decided by a gang of self-entitled individiuals/corporations and democracy was hijacked by them to convince the people of England the official result was what they voted for

      d) The UK state in the form of its parliament and government appears to be more comfortable with the idea that the main campaign to leave the EU broke the law and to hire individuals that saw breaking the law by the campaign as a legit way to win, than to the idea of giving the people of the UK a fair democratic opportunity to re-run the vote and find out for sure

      e) all the above suggests democracy in the uK is dead, if it ever was alive, that is.

      f) all of the above makes one wonder how many more times was approach taken in the past to satisfy that elite.

      g) all of the above makes one wonder if this approach might have been taken also to ensure Scotland “voted” no in 2014

      h) where do we go from here? Is there any point in continue voting in any “democratic” exercise in the UK if the results might have already been decided?

      Bottom line: independently if the EU is right or wrong in bringing those laws, the subject matter here is that in a democracy, the fact that a sefl-serving ruling elite dislikes what other countries in a union are doing is NEVER a legitimate justification to hijack democracy, deconstruct it, transform it into a shell and then present the remaining product as an enforceable representation of the views of the people of the UK.

      Here is a question for you:

      If Cameron had been successful with his letter to the EU big wigs, sent in November 2013 to remove the tax havens from the transparency laws, would Labour had won in 2015?

      In other words, if the powers that be can arrange the result of a referendum to match the path they want the UK to follow, can they arrange in advance for what party will win a GE in the UK as well?

      Didn’t most of the polls prior to the 2015 GE show a Labour win? According to the polls published in Wilkipedia, it was not until May 2014 that the first poll giving tories a win appeared.

    245. James Che. says:

      This is only time i will mention the war on this scottish independence site, it is for a information point only. Not for dialogue.

      Just watch zelenski making a speech from january this year at a claus swabb summit.

      Basically he speaks about already having begun turning ukraine into the first digital country.

      Whereby travel, money food , fuel, housing, vaccine status will be control by government digitally.
      That only skilled people are allowed in the country.( i presume they will kick non skilled out even if they were citizens.

      So the longer term plan for ukraine is to be the first experimental fully digital non monetary country.
      After debasing its present structures.

      Interesting watching one of swabb protege’s with a outlined plan for ukraine before the war started at a summitwith claas swabb himself nodding along.

      Go watch it come out of the horses mouths yourselfs on youtube.

      What goes on at these summits for leaders of the world plans surely does not require apparently the permission of its civilians

      It reminds me of Henry Kissinger’s long term stratergy for America spoken during a televised interview,
      To quote him,
      “While we let china and russia build themselves up, ” we will first we take down seven eastern countries” 2012.
      Former secretary of state for us.

    246. James Che. says:

      The last part of henry kissinger’s speech in that interview finishes with.
      Quote.
      ” Then we take down russia and china”

    247. Mark Boyle says:

      Lochside says: 15 April, 2022 at 12:07 pm

      Your inference about Glasgow Rangers and its malign influence is accurate, but its ugly sectarian twin’s leadership revealed themselves, including leading ex players to be unregenerate Unionists as much as the other lot.

      For all their “republican” veneer, Celtic were formed in 1887 by a slum builder and a fugitive from Ireland wanted for what today we’d call a Ponzi scheme, who hoodwinded a doddery old bigot priest who wanted a Glasgow version of Hibernians because he was scared about Catholics starting to have too much to do with “proddys” (contrary to the myth, wages and conditions at that period in Glasgow were improving for the working class, albeit still shitty) and wanted them to stick with their “own kind”.

      I’m guessing with your apparent origins that you would regard Ireland as the original experiment for English Imperialism. One which resolved it partially, by recognising its struggle as a historical one of colonialism versus imperial oppression, but one it still struggles with in the North of that benighted isle.

      I have zero sympathy for the island of Ireland. They whine on about 800 years of “oppression”, but want everyone to forget English (and for that matter Scottish, Welsh and Manx) hatred was built on 1000 years of Irish raiders pillaging, murdering and enslaving their neighbours once the Romans had gone, simply because they could with impunity (rather like the Barbary Corsairs later). Until it starts to face up to its own less than glorious past – rather than the ludicrous whitewash version of history sicked up in Irish classrooms – their complaints do not deserve to be treated seriously.

      Surely the way forward for Scotland is the one that is emerging in the non SNP nationalist movement: one of working people with skills and life experience uniting against a managerial compromised class of collaborators keeping us imprisoned in the failed UKState?.

      There was a reason why Orwell had his doomed protagonist Winston Smith saying “hope lies with the proles” you know …

      You sneer at the Poll Tax’ era, but cannot have experienced the solidarity of the demonstrations and civil disobedience that occurred in that period. It stopped Thatcher. We need that movement again with brave leaders similar to the Tommy Sheridan of that time. Attacking each other is playing into the hands of the Britstate actors on here. Let the blind SNP followers and their Unionist pals take that self destructive path. So Let’s hear your constructive view on an Independent Scotland’s future.

      Thank you for taking my remarks about the Poll Tax COMPLETELY out of context, but never mind, I’ll play along.

      Oh I remember the Poll Tax old bean. I remember the student leaders burning their poll tax demands in public for the student newspaper, and the seals clapping. I remember it all coming out later the fuckers had big fat paid it anyway. Solidarity my arse!

      That was then: as for now, the population – especially the young – have never been more self-centred, more easily bought off than ever before. Their ideals are whatever platitudes last trended on Twitter. Thatcher and Blair have saw to that. There is nothing to be done with such chaff.

      It is in the generation before them – and the generation yet to come – that any hope lies. Sturgeon and her scum will make sure there’s never the danger of another referendum – anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves.

    248. James Che. says:

      As far as i understand our goal is to rid ourselves of global funding that has entered into the Scottish Government, stonewall, and NS.

      These unseen backdoor influencers are setting the policy tone and agendas for Scotland.

      Any political party incumbant in the scottish government at present has made no effort to stem the awful direction the devolved government has taken since 2014.
      The destruction of Scotland is coming from within.

      That includes Tories, labour, greens, the odd independent, and especially the snp.

      We are where we are with global trans- gender issues, the lack of women’s and children’s safe spaces.
      Energy bills, rising taxes, no industries or employment, Wasted mandates, the economy, education and a failing Scottish NHS due to those parties failing us all.
      The Tories, the SNP, the greens, labour and a managerie of usless sideliners.

      I cannot see one viable reason to vote for any of the above. Those who do not oppose the draconian warped ideology usually sit on their hands and don’t vote at all to protect Scotland or it’s people.

      Its time to entirely change the major sitting political parties in Scotland.

    249. Republicofscotland says:

      So Putin has banned Boris Johnson and Nicola Sturgeon from entering Russia, I wish Putin could ban both of them from entering Scotland mores the pity.

    250. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      16 April, 2022 at 11:40 am

      @John Main 10.56 am

      I agree with you to an extent. Folk rarely vote on single issues, unless they are particularly energised or outraged, as we wee with our sweary friend Ruby.

      Really? My observation has been that in the last decade people in Scotland have been voting on a single issue.

    251. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      but I doubt most independence supporters would be able to stomach voting Tory on the flawed logic used by a minority of zealots like Ruby who hold Alba accountable for the beliefs of one individual.

      Why did Alba suspend the guy who tweeted something complimentary about Putin? Did they believe voters would hold Alba accountable for his beliefs?

    252. Scott says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      I can remember pertinent details about the Poll tax and am a right bigot, albeit with a soft spot for big hairy vikings.

      Happy christmas.

    253. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 2.56 pm

      “Really? My observation has been that in the last decade people in Scotland have been voting on a single issue.”

      Perhaps some have. Many others have probably been voting SNP – as yoons and the MSM never tired of pointing out – not because they were nationalists or because they as individuals supported independence, but because they thought the SNP were competent in government, or at least better than the available British nationalist alternatives.

      Remember, majority support for the SNP in elections didn’t translate in to a majority for Yes in 2014.

    254. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 3.03 pm

      “Why did Alba suspend the guy who tweeted something complimentary about Putin? Did they believe voters would hold Alba accountable for his beliefs?”

      No, they responded to calls from other members to have John Jones expelled for his comments in support of Vladimir Putin. From correspondence I had from the Membership Co-ordinator Corri Wilson on 18th March 2022, Mr Jones was not a member of the party at that point, so no longer subject to disciplinary action or expulsion.

      I suspect that following coverage of his comments in The National, and the reaction to them within the party, he jumped before he was pushed. It is earnestly to be hoped anyone who agrees with Mr Jones follows his example.

    255. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      16 April, 2022 at 4:21 pm

      Remember, majority support for the SNP in elections didn’t translate in to a majority for Yes in 2014.

      Yeah, because the franchise was rigged in favour against the people seeking sef-determination, the Scots.

      The question hasn’t been tested since. You’re a fool with fuck-all political nous. A fraud. A charlatan. And a cunt.

      [In civil court cases, Uncle Tom Cobblers and all can seek permission to be classed as an interested party. It isn’t an automatic right and the judge can tell them to fuck off because they don’t qualify and have no status.

      And if that sticks in yer craw on behalf of your English wife Mr E, I don’t care. Next time you see her, ask if she know’s ‘Gibson’s law’. I think she will.]

    256. Dan says:

      FFS, “Ease the Squeeze” sounds like phrase you’d use if you were marketing laxatives…

    257. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      16 April, 2022 at 4:21 pm

      @Ruby 2.56 pm

      “Really? My observation has been that in the last decade people in Scotland have been voting on a single issue.”

      Perhaps some have. Many others have probably been voting SNP – as yoons and the MSM never tired of pointing out – not because they were nationalists or because they as individuals supported independence, but because they thought the SNP were competent in government, or at least better than the available British nationalist alternatives.

      Remember, majority support for the SNP in elections didn’t translate in to a majority for Yes in 2014

      LOL! That is utterly pathetic!

      I repeat “My observation has been that in the last decade people in Scotland have been voting on a single issue.”

      How many do you think weren’t?

    258. Mark Boyle says:

      Scott says: 16 April, 2022 at 4:17 pm

      I am easily triggered by people disagreeing with me on the Wings Over Scotland comments board and will form psychopathic attachments towards them like a pound shop Owen Jones because I’ve never had my hole.

      Don’t worry Scott, we’ve all noticed.

    259. sarah says:

      @ Dan: “ease the squeeze”. Laxatives? That is a more polite thought than some might associate with NewSNP.

    260. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      No, they responded to calls from other members to have John Jones expelled for his comments in support of Vladimir Putin.

      OK So why didn’t other members make calls regarding Craig Murray.

      Did you make a call re the pro Putin comment and not re anti-women comment?
      Putinistas not OK Misogynistas OK

      Should we now call you ‘Sturgeon’s Poodle’?

    261. Scott says:

      Dan says:
      16 April, 2022 at 4:41 pm

      FFS, “Ease the Squeeze” sounds like phrase you’d use if you were marketing laxatives…

      Honest Dave’s ‘Big Society’ has finally arrived. The poor get to recycle their goods, saving the State politicos the bother of doing what their job is. Egged on by the big stores and the media. All while an armed conflict is also livestreamed into our consciousness 24/7.

      Glasgow Times keeps bumping a story about a ‘woman being killed in RTA near a McDonald’s’ – they’re not even trying to hide their influence these days. Fuck business, said Boris. Corporations aren’t businesses, ask the City of London.

      Corporate fascism is what the people wanted, they just didn’t realise it at the time. Then the industrial revolution happened and the rest, as they used to say, is history.

      “So you thought you’d like to see them heal. Got Blue Peter to stage an appeal – ‘For The Poor’ – for the poor.

      Try shaking your box in front of the Queen.”

      If the kids are united every day’s like Flagshagger day.

      Apologies for posting lyrics, but it’s only words and we asked for signs and the signs were sent.

      Oops, I did it again, time for me to fly.

    262. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 5.17 pm

      “OK So why didn’t other members make calls regarding Craig Murray.”

      How would I know? Feel free to ask all however many thousand there are. Perhaps they did. You’re not a member, so what is it to do with you? If you feel so strongly about it, despite not being a member, contact them and find out.

      “Did you make a call re the pro Putin comment and not re anti-women comment?
      Putinistas not OK Misogynistas OK.”

      I was amongst those who called for John Jones to be disciplined and expelled, yes. He’d already left before the party could take any action against his as far as I understand. I disagree with Craig Murray’s views on the GRA and the implications of reforming it on women’s rights. I think the majority of Alba members are probably more aligned with my views on the issue than his.

      I didn’t see his comments on the bird site as my account got suspended for the same reason as WoS and many other gender critical folk. If his comments are misogynistic, against party policy or merit action being taken against him I’d be supportive of any such moves. I don’t know if anyone else has reported him.

      Your strange obsession with calling me names is only surpassed by the deeply creepy attachment Scott seems to have for me, as pointed out by Mark Boyle above. Like him however, it doesn’t matter how badly triggered you are, or like Scott whether you just haven’t had your hole either, normal people in here will never like you. That’s what happens when the apogee of your wit and level of anlaysis is to call me a cunt every chance you get.

    263. Dan says:

      @ sarah & Scott

      Aye, seems these days the “brightest and best” political minds can plaster any old slogans / shite on the side of a bus and the goldfish punters will still lap it up, completely overlooking that the previous slogans / shite being punted by those they voted for had failed to be delivered after they had been voted into power…

    264. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mark Boyle 5.01 pm

      there’s definitely a wee want about yon Scott. Looked at charitably, it might have something to do with his condition. To most ordinary folk he just comes across as a bit obsessed and stalkerish. Even folk like the late unlamented Hatuey of this parish called him out for crossing the line with his obsessive compulsive behaviour.

      No matter how much he wants me to, I’m never going to be his BFF, so will have to continue ignoring his creepy online stalking. Little wonder he chooses to remain a snivelling online coward.

    265. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      16 April, 2022 at 4:41 pm

      FFS, “Ease the Squeeze” sounds like phrase you’d use if you were marketing laxatives…

      Tried to reply but post went into moderation

      I just said

      or

      https://tinyurl.com/yh4jjdys

      I think the name of that ointment might be a banned word.

    266. Ruby says:

      https://tinyurl.com/58far2c5

      this word with another T triggers

      ‘Your comment is awaiting moderation’

      and so does this

      https://tinyurl.com/yh4jjdys

      You can swear a blue streak but just don’t go mentioning the name of anything you get in the pharmacy.

    267. Ruby says:

      Testing

      Elastoplast!

    268. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      Your strange obsession with calling me names

      Sturgeon’s Poodle

      You are a hoot! If anyone on this site has a ‘strange obession’ with calling others names they have learned it from you!”

    269. Scott says:

      Paranoid Andyroid Ellis says:

      [“OK So why didn’t other members make calls regarding Craig Murray.”

      How would I know?]

      Same method you know why other members think and act like they do, no matter which movements you refer to?

      ‘History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.’ Karl Marx

      ‘He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don’t let that fool you. He really is an idiot.’ – Julius Marx

      ‘I sent them an email: PLEASE ACCEPT their RESIGNATION. I DON’T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT them AS A MEMBER… The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that, you’ve got it made. Hail Freedonia. If you don’t like my principles, well I have others.’ – Groucho Ellis.

      ‘Pinchie winchie’ – ????? ????? (Secret Agent Mapcase)

    270. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 6.10 pm

      Oh I doubt that very much:creative name calling has been around in this place and elsewhere for a fair while. Often times it’s useful to deny those referred to the oxygen of publicity, tho’ since most of the worst trolls in her are snivelling anonymous cowards it scarcely matters.

      For most of the worst offenders however, and to quote the late great Linda Smith, I’m not too happy with most of them having the oxygen of oxygen.

    271. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      I was amongst those who called for John Jones to be disciplined and expelled, yes

      I had guessed that! Also that you were the leader of the pact.

      You seem to have a strange obsession with Putin”

    272. James Che. says:

      Sooo…..

      Back to the transgender and women’s and childrens safe spaces.

      As far as can be seen from very recent history,

      The snp and greens introduced this into the Scottish parliament.
      So thats a NO vote from me.

      Labour leader and minions could not describe what a women was,
      So thats a NO vote from me.

      Tory’s Rushie Sunak and BJ have stolen 1950s women’s pensions , so no respect, and he has a personal history of liking the idea of exterminating the Scots.
      Well thats a big No vote from me as well.

      Lib- have always under achieved, plus have a tendency run with the hair and hunt with the hound.
      So thats a No vote from me.

      Alba at least has it in writing that they will protect women an childrens save spaces,
      And recognise what a women is.

    273. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      16 April, 2022 at 6:15 pm

      For most of the worst offenders however, and to quote the late great Linda Smith, I’m not too happy with most of them having the oxygen of oxygen.

      Oxygen is a poison, you should be wishing only that on your mortal enemies. At ‘get them high while they die levels’ it would be a more pleasing visual and save the effort throttling them, probably.

      But I’m a pacifist, in the abstract.

      Sometimes, all I need is the ‘N2, O2, Ar, CO2, Ne, He, CH4, Kr, Xe, O3, N2O, H2O, and other chemical compounds’.

    274. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      Like him however, it doesn’t matter how badly triggered you are, or like Scott whether you haven’t had your hole either, just normal people in here will never like you. That’s what happens when the apogee of your wit and level of anlaysis is to call me a cunt every chance you get.


      Sturgeon’s Pooodle

      According to you the only normal people here are yourself & ‘John Le Pubis Main’ and quite frankly my dear I don’t care if you pair like me or not.

      I’m a bit shocked that you’ve enquired about my sex life.

    275. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 6.20 pm

      It’s “pack” not “pact”. I’m sure there were quite a number from different branches. I know of several from my own branch, but I also know that both Neale Hanvey agreed action needed to be taken. Neale confirmed to me that Mr Jones was spoken to by the convenor of his branch about his comments and as a result agreed to leave the party with immediate effect.

      Doubtless the fact that there were multiple complaints would have had an impact if the matter had gone further, but since the individual concerned appears to have jumped before he was pushed it’s all turned out for the best.

      It is somewhat concerning of course that the party’s vetting procedures allowed an individual with such views to progress as far as he did, but given the relative youth of Alba as a party and its need to grown quickly for these elections, perhaps a few mistakes were inevitable, and Mr Jones just slipped through the net. Doubtless his admiration for Mr Putin didn’t specifically come up until the start of the current war?

      I don’t have an obsession with Putin: I just don’t want those who think he’s a hero in the party, any more than I’d want someone like Putin’s Poodle “Republic of Scotland” who thinks the Ukrainians had it coming in the party.

      That’s hardly an unreasonable point of view except it appears to some of the pieces of work posting BTL in here.

    276. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 6.52 pm

      I’m a bit shocked* that you think the statement quoted equates to an enquiry about your sex life, when it actually states the opposite i.e. “it doesn’t matter”.

      I suppose it’s a bit much to expect someone who calls people cunts with the frequency Putin’s Poodle lies about Russian aggression in Ukraine BTL to be able to understand grown ups conversation.

      No matter how low standards sink BTL here in recent months you, Putin’s Poodle and some of the others in the basket of deplorables I won’t deign to mention contrive to limbo right under that bar with consummate ease.

      *totally unsurprised

    277. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      “Doubtless his admiration for Mr Putin didn’t specifically come up until the start of the current war?”

      Hahahaha, what a balloon.

      ‘Fuck off if you’ve ever been happy at anything Russia has ever done’ aren’t registered as a political party, but I’d join it as an infiltrator.

      Also Ellis : Compelled speech is fascism/Zelensky MUST be all the heroes, Putin all the cunts.

      Hypocrisy is coming from the USA.

      Ellis – indoctrinated by the School of International Relations at St Andrews University.

      His thesis submission: ‘wargaming yank smashingness based on someone else’s really hard work on another subject entirely’

      Probably booted from view by ‘recruiting spooks’ as a risk, given he can’t hold his water, and resents the rejection of his greatness.

    278. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      16 April, 2022 at 7:16 pm

      @Ruby 6.52 pm

      I’m a bit shocked* that you think the statement quoted equates to an enquiry about your sex life, when it actually states the opposite i.e. “it doesn’t matter”.

      I haven’t had my hole off Mrs Ellis, not that it matters.

    279. Ebok says:

      twathater says:
      14 April, 2022 at 3:20 am
      SO hopefully there are some positive moves afoot, that would be nice EH Breeks, so don’t miss BB’s the PRISM

      Breeks says:
      14 April, 2022 at 4:29 am
      It might be a little kite flying… but I dunno. It feels like something is building… and personally, I hope it’s Constitution related… It is loooong overdue.

      Last night, at the Alex Salmond roadshow in Inverbervie, Alex covered a range of topics, predominantly about independence.
      He enthusiastically praised the work taking place behind the scenes, laying the foundations, organising think-tanks, exploring a whole range of ideas that will help pave the way to an Independent Scotland. Common Weal received glowing praise, though SSRG wasn’t specifically mentioned.
      Again, he stressed that Indy 2, which he doesn’t see happening any time soon, would not be a re-run of 2014, and clearly favoured Plebiscite as the route rather than legal and/or constitutional options.

      Steppingstones are in place, beginning with next month’s council elections, then targeting HR 2026. No mention of GE 2024.
      The cost of energy to households and business was discussed at length. Energy rich Scotland had the potential to keep costs low and make our businesses highly competitive as well as affordable for all.

      When questioned about ‘getting the ALBA message to the public’ he reminded us of the astounding swings from Tory to Lab in 1997, and from Lab to SNP in 2015. There was no hiding his eager anticipation of next weeks (Tuesday?) party political broadcasts of TV. Perhaps, Twathater and Breeks, that is what is going to come out of ‘Prism’?

      But it was what Alex DIDN’T say that stood out for me. At no point did he criticise Sturgeon or anyone connected to SNP. No mention of GRA or HCB. In fact, he went to some lengths to say that Scotgov, for all their faults, including ferries, were way ahead of WM in competency, and that the public perception of competency is the key to winning Yes support. Despite protestations from the floor, Alex didn’t waver, his only rebuke of SNP was to say that ‘Jo’ Cherry was intellectually on a different planet to any other WM MPs.

      Now, it may not sit comfortably with too many, but I’m reading this refusal to criticise SNP just as I did on numerous occasions last year, that Alex may feel that destroying SNP may well destroy Indy for decades. If ‘the establishment’ has been instrumental in creating the current situation in the expectation of civil war breaking out, then clearly, Alex Salmond isn’t playing the game.
      AS reiterated last night that Indy NEEDS a second front. That does not mean two parties working together, it means two parties with one over-riding goal. It means @Sarah getting her November wish for an internal challenge to Sturgeon and a clear-out at the top. It means that ALBA may once again view 2026 as an opportunity to reach an ‘understanding’ to vote one Indy party regional, the other party list.

      In doing so, I believe Alex Salmond is prepared to put the stitch-up and the witch-hunt to one side for now and put his reputation on the line in one final push (for him) to achieve his life goal.

    280. Robert Hughes says:

      Ebok @ 7.28

      It’s beyond question that the deep divisions within the YES Movement are causing severe damage to our ambition and Alex’s pacific stance on the SNP/GOV , his refusal to add to the criticism is , from a tactical POV , understandable .

      They are shite though .

      Are we expected to remain mute in the face of large-scale idiocy , complacency and , yip , incompetence . Is this a more * authoritative * ” Wheesht For Indy ” request ?

      ” Towards the end of 2023 ” 2024 G.E . the 2026 S.E …..

      The future ain’t what it used to be

    281. sarah says:

      @ Ebok at 7.28 p.m.: “I believe Alex Salmond is prepared to put the stitch-up to one side for now… in one final push..to achieve his life’s goal.”

      A good thoughtful comment, Ebok. Thank you. I agree with your analysis – we do need two independence parties in the field and we do need them to have an understanding at the next Holyrood election.

      As you say, the latter won’t happen until the current SNP leadership is cleared out and sadly I see no sign that there is a sizeable group of strong members able to make it happen.

    282. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ebok 7.28 pm

      “Steppingstones are in place, beginning with next month’s council elections, then targeting HR 2026.”

      You may be right that it will disappoint some, but surely Alex is right? Alba is still relatively new and will need time to make inroads on the SNPs support. With luck the party can make a good start in the council elections, but unless the SNP rank and file membership get rid of Sturgeon and her hingers on, there wouldn’t seem to be much hope of co-operation.

      I think Alex is right to prioritise plebiscitary elections over legal/constitutional means, much as it may disappoint those proposing such alternative moves. He’s also right that party support has changed quickly in the past: as this piece shows, the SNP is already haemorrhaging women’s votes over gender woo. There’s no reason Alba shouldn’t do to the SNP what Sinn Fein did to the IPP if circumstances allow.

      I disagree with Robert Hughes @ 8.21 pm: it’s not a matter of “wheesht for indy”: plebiscitary elections for Holyrood in 2026 were always the most likely chance in the foreseeable future. We can’t rely on the SNP to deliver #indyref2, but it’s unlikely they’ll disappear altogether as a political force. One way or another they have to be changed or bypassed.

    283. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mark Boyle 5.01 pm

      “Scott says: 16 April, 2022 at 4:17 pm

      I am easily triggered by people disagreeing with me on the Wings Over Scotland comments board and will form psychopathic attachments towards them like a pound shop Owen Jones because I’ve never had my hole.

      Don’t worry Scott, we’ve all noticed.”

      Scott 7.26 pm: “I haven’t had my hole off Mrs Ellis, not that it matters.”
      Scott 7.18 pm: “Ellis – indoctrinated by the School of International Relations at St Andrews University.”
      Scott 6.50 pm: “Oxygen is a poison, you should be wishing only that on your mortal enemies. At ‘get them high while they die levels’ it would be a more pleasing visual and save the effort throttling them, probably.”
      Scott 6.11 pm: “Paranoid Andyroid Ellis says:…”
      Scott 4.34 pm: “The question hasn’t been tested since. You’re a fool with fuck-all political nous. A fraud. A charlatan. And a cunt.”

      Pound shop Owen Jones indeed….

    284. Scott says:

      “I think Alex is right to prioritise plebiscitary elections over legal/constitutional means” – Andy Ellis

      I’m not a member of any party but if I was, I’d not want to sit next to anyone opposed to use of the civil court.

    285. Scott says:

      Ellis can only live vicariously.

    286. Andy Ellis says:

      Scott says: 16 April, 2022 @ 9.31 pm

      I have frothed myself in to such a lather by obsessively stalking Andy Ellis over an extended and psychologically significant period, that it now seems reasonable for me to say Alex Salmond is wrong and the things my voices tell me are right. People avoid me in the street.

    287. Mark Boyle says:

      Scott says:
      16 April, 2022 at 9:41 pm

      Ellis can only live vicariously.

      Still means he’s got more of a life than you …

    288. Scott says:

      Dan says:
      16 April, 2022 at 5:36 pm

      @ sarah & Scott

      Aye, seems these days the “brightest and best” political minds can plaster any old slogans / shite on the side of a bus and the goldfish punters will still lap it up, completely overlooking that the previous slogans / shite being punted by those they voted for had failed to be delivered after they had been voted into power…

      Feed the world, tuppence a bag.

      Labour isn’t working at sorting out the mess the Conservative party create.

      Could the last furriner to leave Britain please turn out the lights – have you seen the price of leccy? If you see El Cid, tell him that now is not the time to sell ‘Scottish Power’ back to the Scots.

      Suedes 2 Turnips 1 – free tokens inside

      Just say No!

    289. Scott says:

      Yeah, not mentioning Alex Salmond doesn’t mean I disagree with him. Andy @ 2148

      You are totally opposed to legal means, for reasons.

      Stop greetin’ every time anyone disagrees with you.

      Your MO is to highlight instances of people doing so, while vicariously referring to times others agree with you.

      You’re nothing special, in fact you’re a bit of a bore. If you tell a tale, we’ve probably heard it before. Now, you have no talent, no wonderful things. Because nobody listens when you start to whinge.

    290. Scott says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      16 April, 2022 at 10:02 pm

      Still means he’s got more of a life than you

      Can he stretch time anaw noo?

    291. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Days like this – when we see ‘Send Boris a Message – Ease The Squeeze’ appearing as an actual SNP slogan, are when we need Wings back functioning fully. We can only imagine what Stu would’ve come up with, and that’s the point – he was better at it than any of us.

      Here’s hoping the election result will give the man food for thought. I’m not ‘neutral’, but you really have to wonder what the Central Belt chitterati is making of the SNP campaign thus far.

      The PPB which looked like a mid-70s soup advert?

      The launch of the bus (a fuckin huge thing which will drive around – when petrol prices are increasing daily – for three weeks solid, followed at times by Oor Nicola, in the chauffeur-driven car) and bears the same gigantic photie of NS as it did, ooooft, eight years ago? Perhaps they could even make the token gesture of having her current coupon on the back?

      The pure dead gallus swaggering through Edinburgh?

      The ‘minders’ efforts to keep a lone, middle-aged Scottish male from asking Nicola a basic question about vaccine efficiency?

      Russia’s alleged ‘barring’ of Nicola?

      All these things, and more, would have been grist to the WOS mill of old.

      Is it – mibbes? – time to just start giving us an indication that you may have something to say about the impending election? There’s still plenty of time to ‘help’.

      Just ‘throwin it in there!’ so to speak.

      Have a pure braw Easter Sunday Wingers, and may all your bunnies be forever bonny.

      😉

    292. Scott says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      Have a pure braw Easter Sunday Wingers, and may all your bunnies be forever bonny.

      Cheers, brurr.

      May all your buns be hot, cross and taste like Fanny’s used to.

    293. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Scott (11.04) –

      Sah!

      🙂

    294. Breeks says:


      Ebok says:
      16 April, 2022 at 7:28 pm

      In doing so, I believe Alex Salmond is prepared to put the stitch-up and the witch-hunt to one side for now and put his reputation on the line in one final push (for him) to achieve his life goal.

      I think that’s true. I have never met Alex Salmond, but I believe when he set up ALBA as the list party component of a Holyrood Supermajority, I honestly believe he was doing it for the Supermajority and Scottish Independence.

      I do not think it was his intention to belittle Sturgeon, but ironically give her the chance to repent, draw a line under the whole “bad idea” Conspiracy bullshit, and simply do what was best for the good of Scotland. Unfortunately, she doubled down on being stupid and small minded because that’s the cap that fits.

      I myself have a blind spot. I think Alex Salmond is one of the most potent weapons Scotland has in its armoury, and it seems the UK Establishment knows the risk he poses far better than most Scots. The British Establishment has good reason to dislike Mr Salmond, and it’s very obvious that they do. The blind spot for me is understanding the malice some people, allegedly pro Independence people on our side, have for the same remarkable Alex Salmond. I do not know where the animosity comes from. Why did so many pro Independence people want Salmond to be guilty as charged? Were they poisoned against Salmond? Actually yes, I rather think they were.

      To my mind, the animosity towards Alex Salmond has it’s roots in his vilification by the Unionist media, and that vilification has stuck in the minds of those who are most impressionable and easily led. I believe that was evident whenever people who expressed a dislike for Salmond were asked specifically what he had done to offend them. You see the same blank intellect in those who disregard the verdict of the jury who acquitted Salmond. Why is the verdict flawed? No answer.

      With troubling consistency, they would trot out the Unionist mantra; he was a liar, but they couldn’t name a lie. He was unpopular amongst women, but not a shred of evidence produced. He was a sinner, but they couldn’t tell you his sin. They just didn’t like him, but couldn’t give you a reason why. They couldn’t give you a reason why because their brain wasn’t paying attention and their “opinion” was actually the product of pernicious indoctrination they’d picked up from the media.

      I could write screeds, giving you chapter and verse on what Alex Salmond has achieved for Scotland and all the good he has done for our cause. I could also write similar screeds giving you chapter and verse on the dismal litany of failure and underachievement under Sturgeon. To like one and detest the other is to my mind a perfectly rational, logical, and objective conclusion to reach. In fact, if you don’t like one and detest the other, I rather suspect you’re not really paying attention.

      I’m not indoctrinated. I’m looking on events objectively, but feel close to despair as Scottish Independence stalls and flounders while the failures and underachievers in our Indy camp heap ill-founded scorn and contempt on the live wire progressives in ALBA who will fight to their last breath for the good of Scotland.

      Yes, ALBA does criticise the SNP, vehemently, but heads up dummies, you need to adjust your set; the intention is not to injure the SNP, but bring it to it’s senses, shake off the temporary insanity and rediscover the mojo it has lost under Sturgeon’s farcical, dysfunctional, and blindly inept “leadership”.

      You want to see another expression of that blank intellect? Ask one of these SNP body snatchers what Sturgeon’s plan for Independence actually is… Eh…. Em…. Err…

      Yeah, go on. Call me a heretic. It isn’t Sturgeon or the SNP holding back Scotland, it’s getting over the inertia from so much dead weight, non-thinking anaesthetised ballast. Too many cattle in the herd content to munch their lives away.

    295. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks (11.49) –

      If you haven’t already seen this, I think you’ll enjoy it.

      twitter.com/shiny02/status/1515384444827353093

    296. Clavie Cheil says:

      I broke ma poor ribs laughing when Putin banned the Wokist and the English agent Sturgeon from Russia. I dont get why he banned his Tory Poodles Johnson and Co though.

    297. twathater says:

      @ ebok 7.28pm , thank you for that interpretation of the roadshow at Inverbervie , unfortunately it still does not fill me with confidence if this is the good news that is going to be presented on BB prism

      In fact if this is true “No mention of GRA or HCB. In fact, he went to some lengths to say that Scotgov, for all their faults, including ferries, were way ahead of WM in competency” I am horrified , Salmond NOT saying anything critical about the snp’s GRA ,HCB or their gross incompetence in government could be interpreted by the voting public that Salmond supports the clusterfuck that is ongoing and is happy the way the snp are governing , unfortunately I believe more people are becoming aware of the ineptitude of sturgeon and her morons so his failure to expose the bourach will taint him and ALBA with association

      On ALBA’s formation great play was made loudly and publicly of the determined opposition to the GRA legislation by all the representatives especially the female reps like Eva Comrie and others , that determined opposition to the GRA won many praises and promises of support from females who felt abandoned , ignored and vilified by the supposed party of independence , how are these females who listened intently and hungrily to the promises made by ALBA representatives of the determined opposition now going to feel when their ALBA leader is touring the country on roadshows and not only is he SILENT on the GRA legislation he is openly PRAISING the snp and sturgeon on their governance

      As Robert Hughes says at 8.21pm
      “Are we expected to remain mute in the face of large-scale idiocy , complacency and , yip , incompetence . Is this a more * authoritative * ” Wheesht For Indy ” request ? ”

      Much focus was placed by the unionists on the fact that females voted massively to remain within the uk because of a sense of safety and security , a safety and security that is being undermined and threatened by the snp GRA policies , ALBA gave them HOPE with the promise of opposition and support how are they going to feel now with ALBA’S silence , are we DETERMINED to alienate female voters and DRIVE them into the hands and arms of the unionists again

    298. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/EU8kb
      Sex education: Scottish lessons ‘normalise underage sexual activity’

      His criticisms come after a row over a school survey designed to ask pupils as young as 14 and 15 about areas such as their experience of oral or anal sex.

      “If you look at the material on when it is right to start having sex delivered to 11- to 15-year-olds, it is hard to avoid the impression underage sexual activity is being normalised. This is an age group where sex is illegal, and it does state that at one point. But one of the schemes they have on human sexuality, aimed at 11- to 15-year-olds, talks about ‘the right to personal autonomy’, telling young people that they ‘have the right to decide on matters about their sexuality. They are free to explore their sexuality in safe and pleasurable ways as long as they do not interfere with some else’s rights’. This is clearly talking about sexual activity as a right amongst 11- to 15-year-olds.
      “Further, it gives the impression that consent is a sufficient condition for engaging in early sexual activity. There are lots of other examples. The material on condoms, again aimed at 11- to 15-year-olds, says: ‘What should you do if your condom bursts, rips or slips off when you are having sex?’ Note this says ‘when’ you are having sex. Again, it normalises underage sexual activity. That is very worrying.”

      The only conclusion is that they want to lower the age of consent.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fscottish-news%2Fnhs-health-board-should-investigated-26347555

      NHS health board ‘should be investigated by police’ for saying 13-year-olds ‘won’t get in trouble’ for having underrage sex

      Under a section on Sex and the Law, youngsters are encouraged to come forward if they are sexually active under the age of 16 – stating it is unlikely to cause any legal issues so long as there is not too “big” an age gap,

      11 year olds having sex with an 18 year old OK or can the person be older? Who decides what is an acceptable age gap. Is it really OK for 11 year olds to have sex?

      More research required but it does look like the aim is
      to lower the age of consent.

    299. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      16 April, 2022 at 11:54 pm

      @Breeks (11.49) –

      If you haven’t already seen this, I think you’ll enjoy it.

      twitter.com/shiny02/status/1515384444827353093

      Brilliant!

      I think I heard that phrase first from ‘Gusset Grippers” on Twitter when she has teaching everyone how to do their pelvic floor exercises.

      Sqeeze! Then ease the sqeeze! That’s it. Important to keep your pelvic floor muscles in shape. Repeat that fifty times everyday.

      I think it might also be something women in labour are instructed to do while swearing a blue streak and telling their ‘main squeeze’ where to ‘ease their sqeeze’.

      There is a potential for lots of jokes about this daft slogan.

    300. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ruby , that is frightening. Moral code ? Church? Freedom to be a child in a safe environment? Teachers? Police?

      Where are the voices which are supposed to protect the child?

      That advert about girls forced to marry as young as eight and be pregnant when the pregnancy is more likely to kill them encouraged me to support it – now I see that it is undermined by deviant adults.

    301. Dan says:

      Jist imagine how much more easing of the squeezing could have been done across our society if the Scottish Government Administrators of Devolved Powers had competently concentrated on the sensible stuff.
      Ya ken, rather than them spaffing so much of oor cash and officials’ time away on their own personal power games like failed fit ups, or overpriced but not yet functional boats, our ain energy company, retaining single market access, and a myriad other stuff… 🙁
      Pavements not pronouns ya bass!

    302. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 10.21 pm

      “You are totally opposed to legal means, for reasons.”

      I’m not totally opposed. as usual you’re making stuff up. I think the legal and constitutional means many of the bar room bores in here discuss are half baked and based on their own scant knowledge. Greater minds than them, you know ACTUAL experts on our constitution, history and laws have yet to support their cunning plans.

      When they do, I and others will take notice. there may be future circumstances where legal means take centre stage, but it isn’t now. Plebiscitary elections are by far the most likely route to independence in the short to medium term. Any reasonable independence supporter knows this. Alex Salmond is in favour of it. It’s one of the central planks of Alba’s very existence as a party. As usual, you and others who support airy fairy schemes for short cutting our way to independence have no actual plan , very little support on the ground, and nobody of any significance in the fields constitutional law or history who is expert in the field supporting your plans.

      “Stop greetin’ every time anyone disagrees with you.”

      No greeting here. Just playing unreasoning berk whack-a-mole. It’s not much of a challenge to be honest. you see unlike you, and as anyone can see by looking back up thread, I actually interact with a variety of folk and discuss issues.

      The vast majority of your posts consist of obsessively stalking me and commenting inappropriately. Again, that’s hardly new for some of the low life skid marks on the independence movement who have taken up residence BTL here, but don’t kid yourself anyone reasonable thinks you are anything other than an embarrassment.

      The fact that nobody has seen to stage an intervention to stop you making such a fool of yourself and exposing yourself for the creepy stalker you are, strongly suggests you have no friends. That will come as no surprise to any of us.

      “Your MO is to highlight instances of people doing so, while vicariously referring to times others agree with you.”

      As noted above, your MO seems to consist almost exclusively of obsessively stalking me personally, failing to address any issues, and making inappropriate comments. Other posters have noticed your creepy persona, so seems you’ve been rumbled. It must be a sad wee life you have to be so obsessed with someone else who thinks you’re a waste of DNA.

    303. Ruby says:

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiked-online.com%2F2022%2F04%2F15%2Fdid-a-sex-offender-really-expose-her-penis%2F

      Did a sex offender really expose ‘her penis’?

      Thompson’s defence lawyer has clarified that Carroll was referring specifically to the ‘difficult time Thompson is having with her gender identity’.

      So there you have it. A male sex offender, who retains male genitals, could be given a lighter sentence because he claims to be a woman.b>b

      Few insitutitions and major public figures seem to know what a man is, either. Chloe Thompson’s underage victim certainly does – as do all of the unfortunate souls who were subjected to his indecent exposure and bin-shagging last year.

      This is a very good article worth a read

      Bin shagging? Can anyone help?

      The question I have about indecent exposure is it illegal in communal changing rooms? I cant see how it can be.

    304. Breeks says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      16 April, 2022 at 11:54 pm

      @Breeks (11.49) –

      If you haven’t already seen this, I think you’ll enjoy it.

      twitter.com/shiny02/status/1515384444827353093

      Thanks for sharing. Funny but sad at the same time.

      Personally, I’d love to be in the room when Sturgeon has a Theodin moment…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVEYcTyj1Do&t=104s

      Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blown? Where is the mighty YES movement?

      How did it come to this?

      I’d hand her a mirror.

    305. Ruby says:

      J.K. Rowling
      @jk_rowling
      ·
      12h
      It’s ok, I’ll get your permit postdated for you. I’ve got a contact in the Women’s Lunch Permissions Office.

      Wales-Women’s Rights Network
      @WRNWales
      · 18h
      A fabulous day campaigning for #RespectMySex in Cardiff

      Only fair we had drinks & lunch! Oops do women need permission for that @jk_rowling? Let us know

      This is for those who are aware of Craig Murray’s comments. Those who aren’t wont understand what this is about. Tough!

    306. sarah says:

      @ Breeks at 11.49 p.m.: I feel the same – I don’t know Alex Salmond either but think he is honest and motivated by knowing that Scotland’s welfare depends on independence. He is also hugely capable, intellectually and practically.

      He does have a blind spot though – he seems to trust people who are devious, cruel and inadequate e.g. NS and her crowd.

      He doesn’t seem to realise how damaged he has been in the mass public opinion. I feel that there has to be a successful legal action that exposes the truth and his innocence BUT without doubt this would impact support for independence.

      If Alex criticises SNP he gets blamed for harming the Yes cause, and accused of being bitter and ego-driven.

      So he is probably right – leave others in Alba and elsewhere to criticise SNP and to promote Alba policies on GRA etc while he talks about other things.

    307. Andy Ellis says:

      Heads up for Alba supporters: Chance to meet the candidates for Leith and Leith Walk at Leith Arches, Manderston Street, 20th April @1pm. Launch of the Wee Alba Book with guest speaker Alex Salmond.

    308. Andy Ellis says:

      @sarah 10.22 pm

      “He does have a blind spot though – he seems to trust people who are devious, cruel and inadequate e.g. NS and her crowd.”

      I think you may be right. I don’t know AS either, but I have seen a lot of people in life like Sturgeon and some of her hingers on who have hitched their wagons to a more successful and charismatic figure to promptly stab them in the back (or often in the front!) and proceed to take credit for their predecessors achievements.

      Sadly the Sturgeonistas have squandered Salmond’s legacy as the polling evidence in the OP clearly demonstrates.

      Our problem now is how to convince voters as a whole and/or rank and file SNP members to ensure the SNP either changes, or is simply replaced like the IPP was by Sinn Fein in Ireland a century ago. Changing it from within would seem preferable and perhaps a “quicker fix”, but as others have said the membership and activist base has shown zero ability or willingness to affect real change.

      That leaves us with either convincing enough of the electorate to switch their support to Alba and other pro-independence parties to allow Alba to replace the SNP, or at least to ensure Alba can hold the balance of power in Holyrood and hopefully make a deal with a “reformed” SNP which has seen sense and politically defenestrated the Sturgeonites and the candy floss haired TRA Twitler Youth.

      As Alex is reported to have said, the polls can change quickly as Scottish political history shows, despite the relative stasis of the past 7 years. With the economic and political challenges looming in the near future, that period may be ending. Alex may be right to concentrate on the strategic level as you say: give Sturgeon and her unholy cabal enough rope and hopefully they will hang themselves.

    309. Breeks says:

      sarah says:
      17 April, 2022 at 10:22 am

      …So he is probably right – leave others in Alba and elsewhere to criticise SNP and to promote Alba policies on GRA etc while he talks about other things.

      I agree to great extent, although I don’t see Salmond’s forgiving inclusiveness as a new phenomenon. I actually think that philosophy ran right through the 2014 YES Movement like Brighton Rock, and it was that underlying philosophy allowed people from polar opposite perspectives find common purpose and camaraderie, unity which has sadly not been maintained under Sturgeon.

      Pro Monarchy, or anti-Monarchy? Didn’t matter. Independence first. Everything else is small print. Pro or anti NATO? EU or EFTA? It didn’t matter! Get Independence over the line first, and then we can finally discuss those other matters amongst ourselves in an Independent Scotland.

      Contrary to popular belief, Scotland is a difficult and argumentative country. Our society is easily fractured by division, whether it’s your fitba team, whether you’re East Coast or West Coast, Catholic or Protestant, Highlander or Lowlander, Townie or choochter, Islander or Central Belter… we make fighting amongst ourselves an art form.

      But YES in 2014 raised us above all of that, and let us imagine ourselves as a single, united Scottish Nation. That wasn’t an accident in my opinion, that was the product of Alex Salmond’s strategic acumen at work behind the scenes. His leadership managed to point everyone in the same direction.

      I feel certain we are seeing that same acumen at work again, and I’m prepared to go along with that, because I believe trust in Alex Salmond is trust well placed.

      The problem is, Alex Salmond isn’t a pacifying “neutral” who can calm troubled waters for the greater good. Scotland’s enemies have tried very hard to damage Alex Salmond and take him out the game. They very nearly succeeded.

      “Some” have painted a target on Alex Salmond’s back and now a host of antisocial, adolescent non-entities think he’s fair game to take pot shots at, and the SNP “leadership” sit back and smirk, and frankly, that gets right under my skin.

      That vindictive animosity, and the typically puerile nature of it, makes the SNP’s anti ALBA bitching very hard to ignore. But if Alex says we try, then we try.

      What I hope to see is Alex Salmond given the chance to build a similar camaraderie behind an unstoppable Constitutional Initiative led by the SSRG…

    310. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/7v3rP
      Tory MP claims SNP prosecuted Salmond without evidence and Johnson eating cake ‘minor’ in comparison

      Speaking during an Urgent Question on the Metropolitan Police probe into the Downing Street parties, Mr Bacon asked if Michael Ellis, the paymaster general who was responding for the government, agreed that “compared with being interviewed under caution for flogging peerages as Tony Blair was, compared with trying to prosecute a former First Minister of Scotland when they were told there was no evidence to do so, and compared to taking money from Chinese spies, eating a piece of birthday cake is a relatively minor offence.

      He does have a point

      “compared with trying to prosecute a former First Minister of Scotland when they were told there was no evidence to do so”

      Any info re being told there was no evidence?

    311. Merganser says:

      2nd attempt to post this.

      Breeks: Alex Salmond/Blind spots.

      As a politician Alex Salmond is more than head and shoulders above any one in the present government. Perhaps the blind spot is in not seeing, or not accepting, that at the moment the majority of Scottish voters do not want independence. Such people probably see Alex as more likely to deliver something they don’t want so are against him.

      The same people may see Nicola Sturgeon as more unlikely to deliver independence, so are for her. I can’t think of any other reason for her popularity. It’s a mad world.

    312. Ebok says:

      Twathater, Robert Hughes, Sarah, Breeks

      To four of the most respected contributors on WoS, thanks for the feedback.

      I don’t only respect your views; I invariably agree with them too. We are all reading from the same script. Last year I expressed my frustrations time and again about Alba’s apparent lack of drive, failure to attack the personalities and policies of Scotgov, and failure to nail those liars and cheats as they brazenly posed for media.

      Since then, I’ve tried to let the anger find a new outlet: I’ve adopted Robert’s outlook on Alba – give them support more in hope than expectation. In doing so, the final victory, Independence, will taste even sweeter.

      The short account I gave of MY interpretation of the AS talk doesn’t tell the whole story.
      You could not help but feel much more confident after listening to Alex. Sure, he didn’t cover major policy differences with SNP, but that was partly down to the format: Alba and Independence were the main talking points, and you can’t cover everything in a 20min opening, followed by an hour of questions and answers. Just because nobody brought up HCB and GRA doesn’t mean that Alex supports these. Alba has set out the stance on these issues.

      Robert at 8.21pm, sure it is incredibly frustrating, knowing what’s going down and unable to do anything about it but no matter how much we want to change things now, we are powerless: the reality is that Scotland handed power to 129 MSPs last year, and there is nothing you, or I, or Alex, or anyone in Scotland can do about it for four more years. But what we do know it that at least half of Scotland will be saddled with unmanageable budgets very soon and those 129 MSPs will need to find answers.

      Watching the body language and listening to the passion of AS told me that he is supremely confident that the work going on behind the scenes is going to have a dramatic impact. I got the impression that he knows he doesn’t have to court counterproductive controversy, that all the tons of shit surrounding Sturgeon will find its way out in plenty of time for 2026, that her and her gang will be well gone, and Indy will be back on track.
      Sarah summed it up well: ‘So, he is probably right – leave others in Alba and elsewhere to criticise SNP and to promote Alba policies on GRA etc while he talks about other things’

      Destroying SNP in not a winning Indy strategy. The personalities and direction must change, obviously, and a new hierarchy must focus primarily on issues that increase support for independence.

      We don’t have many worthy of the title ‘Leader’. Alex Salmond is in a league of his own and Scotland is fortunate to have such a leader. We must make sure that our great-grandchildren don’t look back at this period and ask: ‘were they the most senseless generation in history?’

      If you want to know more, visit an Alex Salmond Roadshow, there may be one coming your way soon. Ask anything you want and get the answer direct from the maestro.

    313. Robert Hughes says:

      Ebok .

      Thank for your kind remarks . They are reciprocated towards yourself .

      I should have been clearer ….I have no wish to criticise Alex and agree with your and Breeks’ assessment of the man . I’ve never met him but I know quite a few who have , all remarked on his openness , warmth and down-to-earth qualities ; add to that his political nous and – as currently being demonstrated – his Statesman-like diplomacy and you have the sense of a truly admirable individual and politician . A Gulliver being assailed by Lilliputian non-entities .

      I’ve previously stated my reservations , no need to reiterate them , but I will restate my best wishes for ALBA , in May and beyond .

      Alas, there is no ALBA candidate in my ward , I would have voted without hesitation for one had there been . Hopefully , as the Party grows the opportunity to do so will arise .

    314. John Main says:

      @Ruby 6:52

      “John Le Pubis Main”

      Just a wee bit disappointed that Mia hasn’t seen fit to gently chide you for your puerile, toe-curling post, claiming it makes you look as if you have no credible contributions to make.

      Must be because Ruby is a girl’s name.

    315. Andy Ellis says:

      @Breeks 11.40 am

      “What I hope to see is Alex Salmond given the chance to build a similar camaraderie behind an unstoppable Constitutional Initiative led by the SSRG…”

      The motives behind the Scottish Sovereignty Research Group seem entirely admirable, and David Henry – who is in my Alba branch – and Mark McNaught seem like good sorts. I’m wondering what the timescale might be for this unstoppable Constitutional Initiative though?

      Isn’t it more likely that plebiscitary Holyrood elections are more likely to bring about a result in 2026? Building up a head of steam for a grass roots movement along the lines of the Catalan “Debat Constituent” seems like more of a long term project doesn’t it?

    316. robertknight says:

      Robert Hughes…

      “Alas, there is no ALBA candidate in my ward”

      Doesn’t mean you can’t vote for ALBA.

      Simply take a pen into the booth, draw your own additional box, write “ALBA PARTY” next to it and place your “1” accordingly.

      A big line through all other boxes.

      Simples 🙂

    317. Robert Hughes says:

      RobertKnight

      Ah ! You suggest an ALBAgensian Heresy !

      Good shout , I’m on it 🙂

    318. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/ZzBeS
      Tell the politicians that they need to respect my sex if they want your X

      Who do you think J.K. Rowling will vote for on May 5th.

      Would it be a good thing for Alba to have such a high profile supporter?

      Have her views stayed the same on Independence?

      Will the Tories be the lucky/unlucky recipients of her vote?
      I don’t think she will be voting Labour.

    319. Ebok says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      16 April, 2022 at 10:50 pm
      ‘Have a pure braw Easter Sunday Wingers, and may all your bunnies be forever bonny’

      BOY: “Dad, is it wrong that I’m 14 and still believe in the Easter Bunny?”
      DAD: “Son, I’m 43 and still believe in what the media says”

    320. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 2.35 pm

      Why would an avowed unionist who gave £1 million pounds to Better Together before #indyref1 suddenly change their ideological spots and support a pro-independence party?

      Perhaps not everyone wears their principles as lightly as you do? You appear willing to ditch Alba (whose official policy position on GRA and women’s rights appears to align with your own) on the basis of something Craig Murray said that you disagree with.

    321. Republicofscotland says:

      As the Old Firm take on each other today with police sirens in the background and the police helicopter up above, one could be forgiven for thinking that Scotland is full of religious bigots.

      However the religious hatred in Scotland is about to ramp up a few gears, NI has about 200 a year so we’re getting pretty close to that in Scotland.

      “SCOTLAND is set to see six times the amount of Orange Order processions this year than last as loyalist parades ramp up now that pandemic restrictions have been removed, the Sunday National can reveal.

      As the country was under Level 3 and Level 4 Covid-19 restrictions in 2020, there were no loyalist marches held. Only 30 managed to go ahead in the summer of 2021 across 10 council areas, with a further 14 planned but later cancelled. But now, with all final pandemic rules stripped away, Scotland is set to see a jump to 184 Orange Order parades in 15 local authority areas.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20074077.orange-walk-2022-marches-ramp-sixfold-increase-planned%2F

    322. John Main says:

      Mia

      It was your post that first mentioned the idea that Brexit was arranged in order to ensure that the UK never became subject to the new tax haven restrictions proposed for the EU.

      When I ask you if there is any evidence that post-Brexit, the EU is in any way cracking down on its tax havens, or being any more successful in taxing multinationals, you accuse me of distracting you.

      Sorry Mia. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If the EU has demonstrably more equitable tax regimes now, then a justification for a shadowy elite to get the UK out of it can be extrapolated. Otherwise, it can’t, and if there is no justification for these elites to force Brexit, then there is no justification for the belief that the Brexit vote was manipulated to get the result these elites wanted.

      Occam’s razor Mia. The Brexit vote was simply an opportunity for a disenfranchised and disgruntled electorate to stuff the ruling elites with a “Boaty McBoatFace” moment. There never was such a coordinated and unified campaign in modern history, involving the TUC, the CBI, the MSM, organised religion, charitable bodies, politicians of all parties. Hell, even the saintly Obama swung by to tell us to vote Remain.

      So enough ordinary voters were so scunnered by this wall-to-wall propaganda telling them how fantastic the EU was, in direct opposition to the evidence their own eyes were telling them that everything around them was getting worse, that they decided “f*ck the lot of yous” and voted Leave.

      Still, as you write Mia, with the election less than 3 weeks away, this is all unnessary distraction. How about leaving out the wilder conspiracy theories until after the election, on the basis that keeping the comments grounded in reality may be the best route to increased support for Alba?

    323. Republicofscotland says:

      As Sturgeon sets out on her big yellow tour bus with her face plastered all over it to win council votes in May, she’s still insisting an indyref will be held next year. The carrot dangles even closer.

      “I’ve set out the timetable I’m working to. Nothing has changed around that.

      “Plans for that are under way, so nothing has changed. I won the mandate for that in an election this time last year.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20074835.scottish-independence-nicola-sturgeon-addresses-question-timing-indyref2%2F

    324. John Main says:

      @Republic 4:30

      Free Scots exercising their rights to act as they wish, within the law.

      What’s not to like about that?

      Shame that sort of thing grinds your gears. For some of us though, it’s the reason we support Indy. A movement that seeks to further enhance the rights and opportunities for free Scots to exercise their freedoms within the law.

    325. Republicofscotland says:

      If Sturgeon the betrayer hadn’t betrayed Scots on an indyref there would be no need for this, and if Sturgeon is truly planning to win an indyref, again why bother with this.

      Also I haven’t seen five proposals from the SNP government to Westminster on opening drug consumption rooms in Scotland. That’s because she doesn’t give a monkey’s about Scots addicted to drugs.

      “THE Scottish Government has lobbied UK ministers with five options to rewrite the Scotland Act in a bid to incorporate the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) into Scots law.

      The legislation was deemed outwith the scope of devolution by the UK Supreme Court after a challenge by the UK Government. push through legislation deemed incompetent by the Supreme Court.

      SNP ministers have tabled five proposals to the UK Government that would amend Scotland’s devolution agreement in order to ensure the legislation as it stands could become legally competent.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20074758.snp-set-five-options-rewrite-scotland-act-un-convention-rights-child-bid%2F

    326. Republicofscotland says:

      “Free Scots exercising their rights to act as they wish, within the law”

      Main @4.42pm.

      So Main if I organised a march that say celebrated the killing of say Jews in WWII or a march where they celebrated the killing of Sikhs as British troops have done in India. This exactly what O/O marches celebrates, with Catholics in mind, with vile bigoted songs thrown in and the odd priest battered in Glasgow’s East End. I know my feet wouldn’t touch the ground as I was thrown into a police cell for religious hatred of some sort.

      Yet here we are in Scotland in this day and age and we allow bigoted marches and vile songs to be sung on our streets, and you agree with it. I might have known with you being a Nazi supporter that this would be right up your street.

      Scots like to think that there’s not much comparison with Scotland and NI when it comes to religious hatred and bigotry that I’m afraid isn’t true, the divide and conquer plan worked just as well in Scotland as it did in NI.

    327. twathater says:

      Andy Pandy @ 4.30pm to Ruby “Perhaps not everyone wears their principles as lightly as you do ? ” OMG the hypocrisy is unbelievable from the balloons balloon windbag

      EH Andy I remember you publicly and vehemently posting that if the franchise was changed in any way that interfered with your wife and daughter’s ability to vote in a ref ,NOT only would you vote AGAINST independence you would ACTIVELY WORK AGAINST INDEPENDENCE , are you Groucho Marx where your principles are fluid just like your indy vote

    328. Scott says:

      Here Cortana, what is ‘failing spectacularly to accurately refute things I’ve written btl’?

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/progress-update/#comment-2690021

      Ellis thinks that only politicians should drive his narrative, and that of everyone else hoping to see the independence of Scots law.

      Here’s a fun fact:

      Private referendums are a thing in Scotland – them what asks the question gets to publish the results, weighted accordingly.

      ***
      Here Cortana, what is defeatist attitude?

      “The motives behind the Scottish Sovereignty Research Group seem entirely admirable…

      …Isn’t it more likely that plebiscitary Holyrood elections are more likely to bring about a result in 2026? Building up a head of steam for a grass roots movement along the lines of the Catalan “Debat Constituent” seems like more of a long term project doesn’t it?

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/progress-update/#comment-2690034

      ***

      Here Cortana, what is an agent provocateur?

      Alert readers already know.

      Happy christmas.

    329. Scott says:

      Hahaha, Nicola Sturgeon has been reported to the polis.

      [Source: BBC via bird app, archived https://archive.ph/BOg88%5D

      Narcissists fall entirely of their own volition; They’re too focused on ‘the self’ to take into account the needs or wishes of others, or ‘normal rules of social engagement’.

    330. Andy Ellis says:

      @twatbynametwatbynature 5.00 pm

      If you’re unable to comprehend the difference between the two things, I can’t really help you. Not of course that I believe for a nano second you’re debating in good faith.

      I would indeed campaign strongly against any plan to restrict the franchise of a future indyref in a way which disenfranchised those who would have had the vote in 2014. That would include my wife now, though not my daughter. I’m sure I wouldn’t be alone in doing so, or in refusing to participate in any such vote if the plan were adopted.

      If that translates in your head to the same thing as the poor confused political tourettes victim Ruby voting Tory because they’re the only party supporting women’s rights because she’s binned any plan to vote for Alba over the tweets of one member you’re beyond help.

      This will come as a surprise to precisely nobody.

    331. Scott says:

      John Main says:

      “Occam’s razor Mia. The Brexit vote was simply an opportunity for a disenfranchised and disgruntled electorate to stuff the ruling elites with a “Boaty McBoatFace” moment.”

      Occam’s razor John: Boaty is supposed to sink, despite the majority voting otherwise. If Sir David Attenborough dies ‘viewers in Scotland’ will join the mourning through choice.

      Papert’s principle John: Some of the most crucial steps in mental growth are based not simply on acquiring new skills, but on acquiring new administrative ways to use what one already knows.

    332. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 5.02 pm

      “Private referendums are a thing in Scotland – them what asks the question gets to publish the results, weighted accordingly.”

      Fill yer boots. Let us know how it goes, huh? Presumably you’re organising it before 2026 Holyrood elections then….?

      I note that you don’t actually address any of the refutations made?

      Folk might almost think it’s because you have no answer to them Scott. Stun us wi’ another.

      Isn’t it passing strange for an agent provocateur to be public about their identity?

      I mean, we can understand why a sweary psychotic stalker like you wants and needs to remain a snivelling anonymous coward on line to protect themselves, but it would seem a strange thing for me to be so publicly identifiable and yet to be a unionist plant….?

      Well, at leat it would to most folk with a sense of perspective whose cognition isn’t impaired. Looked at charitably it might be put down to your condition: more likely it’s because you’re a deeply unpleasant individual with a creepy obsession. The smart money is definitely on the latter, as others have noted, but both is also an option.

      You should probably stop now.

    333. Republicofscotland says:

      Scott @5.30pm.

      Unfortunately if by some miracle we could get Holyrood to hold a VONC on Sturgeon the betrayer the ultra woke Greens would save her treacherous arse as they have done with John Swinney.

    334. Republicofscotland says:

      “EH Andy I remember you publicly and vehemently posting that if the franchise was changed in any way that interfered with your wife and daughter’s ability to vote in a ref ,NOT only would you vote AGAINST independence you would ACTIVELY WORK AGAINST INDEPENDENCE ”

      Twathater.

      I’d say that just about sums up Agent Ellis when it comes to wanting Scottish independence.

    335. Andy Ellis says:

      @Putin’s Poodle 6.20 pm

      Yeah, yeah….everyone’s buying the fact that I’m a unionist plant / Sturgeonite stooge / not a real indy supporter [delete according to choice of nonsensical woo-woo of whichever moon howler is trying and failing to come within a country mile of reality].

      Strange then that I’m the one that’s posting in my own name unlike all the (consults notes) snivelling anonymous keyboard cowards who like to be able to abuse people without fear of being found out for the frauds and skid marks on the movement they actually are.

      It’s almost as if you lot have something to hide……?

    336. Scott says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      17 April, 2022 at 6:17 pm

      Scott @5.30pm.

      Unfortunately if by some miracle we could get Holyrood to hold a VONC on Sturgeon the betrayer the ultra woke Greens would save her treacherous arse as they have done with John Swinney.

      The assumption being that VONC will be needed.

      When those in power or otherwise ‘break the law’, the assumption is that there’s only one.

      When those in power wilfully do so, they rarely face the full effect of the common law.

    337. Republicofscotland says:

      “Yeah, yeah….everyone’s buying the fact that I’m a unionist plant / Sturgeonite stooge / not a real indy supporter”

      Agent Ellis.

      I couldn’t have put it better myself.

      Scott agreed, with Police Scotland, the COPFS and a majority at Holyrood via the Greens behind her Sturgeon is all but untouchable right now.

    338. Breeks says:

      Merganser says:
      17 April, 2022 at 12:36 pm

      …The same people may see Nicola Sturgeon as more unlikely to deliver independence, so are for her. I can’t think of any other reason for her popularity. It’s a mad world.

      I can understand the point you’re making Merganser, but I very much fear Sturgeon’s capacity to deliver Independence is non-existent, but worse than that, the unconstitutional precedents she is setting through her own hubris and Constitutional ineptitude are already damaging Scotland’s interests and integrity.

      It remains to be seen whether those unholy precedents can be reversed, but we cannot afford to give constitutionally illiterate idiot who’s making these stupid concessions, the benefit of the doubt.

      Popular with the voters or not, she is destroying Scotland’s Constitutional fabric and integrity, and that cannot be ignored. It has to stop before all is lost and there isn’t a way back.

      The worrying thing is the number of people, even good pro-Indy people, who are genuinely clueless when it comes to Scotland’s Constitutional predicament.

    339. Scott says:

      “Isn’t it passing strange for an agent provocateur to be public about their identity?” – A Fool

      Not really, they just deny being one despite the evidence.

      “I would never do that”; “I have no reason to do that”; “Why would I do that?

      Research shows that those found guilty of murder, use such phrases more than those found not-guilty.

    340. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 7.28 pm

      “Not really, they just deny being one despite the evidence.”

      Voices in your head aren’t evidence Scott. Folk know who I am. You’re just “some (anonymous) arsehole” on the internet.

      I doubt very much you’re an independence supporter at all.

    341. Merganser says:

      Breeks @ 6.58pm

      ..constitutional ineptitude…constitutionally illiterate idiot..

      I think it is being too kind to her to suggest it is lack of knowledge or ability. Her actions for so long have shown her to be acting in a deliberate, malicious way to wilfully obstruct the pursuit of independence.

      The worrying thing for me is that so many people seem content with this.

    342. Scott says:

      “I doubt very much you’re an independence supporter at all.” Ellis

      State your case – which can only be based on btl comments on this site. Without prejudice, may I suggest ‘CTRL + F’ on every article.

      Good luck.

    343. Ruby says:

      https://tinyurl.com/fftkz8ze

      Dr Shereen Benjamin and India Willoughby – 2022-04-12 – The Nine (Trans Debate)

      It always seems to be India Willoughby who is interviewed.
      Willoughby is a journalist and they tend to just make up stuff and shout over people.

      Willoughby is just one type of trans there are many other types.

      Lorna Slater says she welcomes discussion. Aye right! She wants to be able to lecture people tell them they are anti-trans and their concerns are not valid.

    344. Republicofscotland says:

      Child poverty in Sturgeon’s constituency is the highest in Scotland.

      https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/children-nicola-sturgeons-glasgow-constituency-23710825

    345. Scott says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      17 April, 2022 at 8:47 pm

      Child poverty in Sturgeon’s constituency is the highest in Scotland.

      The common law right to aliment was amended by an Act of WM (concerning divorce and heritable property)

      Previously in Scotland there was a lifelong connection between ‘Grandparent-Parent-Child’ wrt ongoing financial support, and worked in all directions. I doubt many knew of this right or the much wider implications.

    346. Andy Ellis says:

      I missed Joanna Cherry’s comments reported in the Herald on 14/04/22 in response to the Scottish Greens whingeing, but worth a read and considering whether the Greens and SNP could soon find themselves on the receiving end of legal proceedings. I certainly hope so!

      “Joanna Cherry QC, MP for Edinburgh South West and Deputy Chair of the Joint Committee on Human Rights at Westminster, said: “In the past week both Lorna Slater and Patrick Harvie have displayed an extraordinary insouciance towards human rights and equality law by seeking to brand women who question legislative proposals based on gender identity theory as transphobic and akin to ‘racists’ and ‘anti-Semites’. Ms Slater wants us banned from the airwaves and Mr Harvie wants us disciplined by our political parties.

      Both of these politicians need to go off and acquaint themselves with Articles 9 and 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights which protect freedom of belief and freedom of speech in this country.

      They. could also do with reading and understanding the Equality Act and the decision of the Employment Appeal Tribunal in case of Maya Forstater v CGD Europe which established that discrimination, harassment, and victimisation against persons of gender critical belief is unlawful under the Equality Act.

      While this was an employment law case the prohibition of this sort of discrimination applies to membership organisations, including political parties, in respect of their members.

      The Green Party of England and Wales is currently being sued by a former leadership candidate for such discrimination.

      No doubt this is why sensible political parties in Scotland are not pursuing complaints against women merely for holding and expressing such views in the way that Mr Harvie seems to want.

      He and Ms Slater would do well also to take a look at the Public Sector Equality Duty which obliges those in government to have due regard to the need to eliminate discrimination, advance equality of opportunity and foster good relations between different protected characteristics.”

      It does make me wonder how Cherry can bear staying in the SNP and campaigning for such a deeply compromised and misogynistic organisation?

    347. Scott says:

      I missed Joanna Cherry’s comments reported in the Herald on 14/04/22 in response to the Scottish Greens whingeing, but worth a read and considering whether the Greens and SNP could soon find themselves on the receiving end of legal proceedings. I certainly hope so!” – Ellis

      Contradiction: i v b setting the scene infers untruth or need for attention or both.

      “It does make me wonder how Cherry can bear staying in the SNP and campaigning for such a deeply compromised and misogynistic organisation?”

      this a statement of opinion, not a question.

      Ellis supports legal means in first instance noo, despite not knowing the form of it.

      He really can’t help publicising his narcissism and rambling inconsistency.

      If everyone quit over a ‘single issue’, there’d be no politicians left in any party, but there’d still be Peter Murrell in charge of SNP.

      Be careful what you wish for OO51773

    348. Merganser says:

      It’s a pity there are no Russian super yachts in Scottish shipyards which could be impounded.

      No, not for use as a ferry. For the personal use of Scotland’s own dictator.

    349. Scott says:

      “Boris Johnson’s fine for breaching lockdown rules is the “most severe constitutional crisis involving a prime minister”, a historian has said.

      History of government expert Lord Hennessy told the BBC Mr Johnson had “broken the law”, “misled Parliament” and “shredded the ministerial code.”

      Mr Johnson is the first serving PM to be sanctioned for breaking the law.

      Among the options open to opposition parties to put political pressure on Mr Johnson include asking a parliamentary committee to investigate or holding a Commons vote. ” – BBC

      https://archive.ph/2qmlj

      Other options are available, especially for viewers in Scotland.

    350. Scott says:

      Who is…

      History of government expert Lord Hennessy?

      Author- The Hidden Wiring:Unearthing the British Constitution. (Covering period 1945-)

      Paperback: Pheonix, Hardcover: W&N; Original publisher: Fabian Society, 1990.

      What is the ‘Fabian Society’?

      ‘The Fabian Society is a British socialist organisation whose purpose is to advance the principles of democratic socialism via gradualist and reformist effort in democracies, rather than by revolutionary overthrow.

      Peter Hennessy will do fuck all about Boris and do it very very slowly.

    351. Scott says:

      Some early morning reading…

      “Oxygen is a poison, you should be wishing only that on your mortal enemies. At ‘get them high while they die levels’ it would be a more pleasing visual and save the effort throttling them, probably.” – Me

      FAO Ellis (who poured scorn on that statement here: https://wingsoverscotland.com/progress-update/comment-page-1/#comment-2690002 )

      Oxygen Toxicity – Anuj Chawla & Ak Lavania

      Abstract: Oxygen, the gas vital to sustain life, can also destroy it.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4925834/

    352. Clavie Cheil says:

      Clavie Cheil says:
      17 April, 2022 at 3:00 am

      I broke ma poor ribs laughing when Putin banned the Wokist and the English agent Sturgeon from Russia. I dont get why he banned his Tory Poodles Johnson and Co though.

      =====================================================================

      I figured it out – Putin and his pals have their billions stashed in Britisher off shore shore tax havens and he is trying to cover up that fact.

      To Putin’s poodles I say – ZEIG HEIL.

    353. Scott says:

      Clavie Cheil says:
      18 April, 2022 at 12:54 am

      To Putin’s poodles I say – ZEIG HEIL.

      People who say that sound like Nazis; People who write that look like Nazis who can’t spell or can’t code.

    354. Clavie Cheil says:

      Scott says:
      18 April, 2022 at 1:23 am

      Clavie Cheil says:
      18 April, 2022 at 12:54 am

      To Putin’s poodles I say – ZEIG HEIL.

      People who say that sound like Nazis; People who write that look like Nazis who can’t spell or can’t code.

      ===================================================================

      The rich fuckers and Putin is one of them will always fuck us in the ass like the Brit Tories. Are you for leap frog?

    355. Scott says:

      Clavie Cheil says:
      18 April, 2022 at 1:40 am

      The rich fuckers and Putin is one of them will always fuck us in the ass like the Brit Tories. Are you for leap frog?

      Fuck no. Last time I had a go at leapfrog was at football training one Monday night in 1990 – the university employed the worst coach at any sport there’s ever been…every session was the same shit. I think he only got the gig because he was a cousin of John Greig, former Rangers player who was a really rubbish coach/manager himself.

    356. James Che. says:

      Sorry to piss on your parade enjoy all your huffing and puffing while it lasts if the w e f have there way we wont have a country to worry about they are almost there if you don’t believe me go and do a bit of research it is all there the sheep are told to fear the wolf but it is the shepherd that will eat them wishing you all the best

    357. Scott says:

      James Che. says:
      18 April, 2022 at 2:02 am

      the sheep are told to fear the wolf but it is the shepherd that will eat them

      What should they fear if either the shepherd or wolf inflict a mortal wound on the other, but in the melee fall down a well?

      Asking for a sheep.

    358. James Che. says:

      Basically one can’t see the wod for the trees.

      While we go slowly slowly about our worry of gaining our independence and who will get us there.

      The WEF, and all the other world summit meetings are running a parallel universe trying to ensure that no nation becomes an independent country,
      crash the worlds present economic cash flows, limit energy to the people.
      Reduce travel for minions only, while attempting to bring about food rationing all attached to digital ID,
      Your bank, mortgage, savings pensions, all will be controlled by a digital permission ID card,

      As zelenski and claus swabb said in january this year, the have alredy begun in ukraine..
      Its on you tube, their not hiding it, straight from the horses mouths. In their summit meeting.

      Which came first, The change for the great reset, or the painfully slow race for Scottish independence.

    359. Scott says:

      James Che. says:

      Which came first, The change for the great reset, or the painfully slow race for Scottish independence.

      Some people are so far behind in the race that they actually believe they are leading.

    360. John Main says:

      James Che

      You can also crash an economy, wreck people’s livelihoods, slash their energy use and introduce food rationing by bombing a country back to the Stone Age. Oh, and kill and maim a few tens of thousands in the process.

      Given a choice between that and the WEF option, it’s WEF all the way for me.

      TBH, I am not following your logic. You write that the WEF is opposed to national sovereignty. And you write that Ukraine was working with the WEF. As the only actor obviously opposed to Ukrainian sovereignty is Russia, that would imply that Russia is acting on the WEF’s behest.

      Seems unlikely to me.

    361. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/HpycB

      Sturgeon agrees with what Lorna Slater ‘actually said’ in trans row

      “What she said was transphobia should be treated as negatively as racism and sexism.”

      I have a huge problem with that.

      Transphobia & anti-trans which means the same thing seems to be directed at anyone who has concerns about GRA & self-id.

      The problem I have with the term transphobia is I haven’t a clue what it means because like the supporters of GRA/Self Id who don’t know what a woman is I don’t know what a transwoman is.

      According to Sturgeon any concerns women have are not valid end off. “Shut-up Terf!”

      Instead of whipping out the anti-trans card at every opportunity why not answer people’s concerns?

      Start with defining what a woman is.

      Easier just to call people bigots/anti-trans than to answer questions?

    362. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 9.14 am

      I think referring to such contributions as having any logic to them is considerably over egging the pudding bud! Stream of consciousness conspiracy theorising perhaps…? The WEF fixation and insistence that the “Great Reset” is almost upon us is one step above folk bloviating about the Illuminati or pointing out that George Soros and his mates are behind it all, and we know what that generally a huge red flag for, don’t we alert readers?

      How these roasters think the Brigadoonesque “local country for local people” their wet dreams consist of would ever manage to survive in the face of the post Great Reset masters of the universe isn’t clear to me. Or to them it seems. Plus ca change….

    363. Breeks says:


      Ruby says:
      18 April, 2022 at 9:23 am

      Easier just to call people bigots/anti-trans than to answer questions?

      Thank to Ian Brotherhood for the link, but Shauny Boy absolutely nails it…

      https://twitter.com/shiny02/status/1515384444827353093

    364. Effigy says:

      Can you imagine the Tories faces if Nicola Sturgeon resigned as a result of not having her face mask on for a few moments?

      If she says it’s a terrible mistake, indeed a crime most as bad as holding and attending multiple parties.

      Where could team Bojo go from there?
      Perhaps appeal to her not to be silly, it’s absolutely fine to do that.

      Only thing is I’d like Bojo to be the Clown in Chief at Indy Ref 2.

    365. Ruby says:

      The Alba Party seem to be quick to purge any ‘Putinista”
      (thanks to founder member Andy Ellis for being so vigilant. He’s the leader of the ‘Putinista Patrol’)

      ‘Putinistas’ definitely unacceptable ‘Misogynistas’on the other hand are OK.

      Ellis posts like a anonymous troll using his real name!
      It’s bonkers!

    366. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 9.38 am

      The irony of a foul mouthed anonymous harridan like you calling anyone a troll won’t be lost on any normal alert readers Ruby. As for helping to rid the party of Putinistas I certainly can’t take the credit, since the skid mark in human form involved had already been shown the door when I and a number of others made complaints.

      If you think Neale Hanvey and others in the party leadership shouldn’t be expelling apologists for Putin, I’m sure they’ll give your opinion all the consideration it merits. I doubt they or any reasonable person would accept your assertion that they think misogynistas are OK, presumably on the basis that you think Craig Murray is a misogynist because of his stance on the GRA and trans rights. Perhaps you should take it up with Craig and/or the party?

      I seem to recall you’re not a member, but I’m sure if you have à compliant you can submit one through publicly availability channels. How much notice they’ll take of “some aresehole” on the internet, particularly one with your penchant for abusing folk online remains to be seen.

      Good luck with that though! Let us know how you get on in the unlikely event you do any more than throw rocks from the safety of under your bridge.

    367. Ruby says:

      Breeks says:
      18 April, 2022 at 9:31 am

      Thank to Ian Brotherhood for the link, but Shauny Boy absolutely nails it…

      SNP believe “Scottish people aren’t smart”
      I’m wondering “What happened to us man?”
      Is there something in the carrots?

    368. sarah says:

      @ Ebok at 12.47 p.m.: Your report on the Alex Salmond meeting lead to a good discussion – thank you. [And thanks for the kind comment on my contribution!]

    369. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      18 April, 2022 at 9:54 am

      @Ruby 9.38 am

      “Ruby, Ruby, Ruby, Ruby (ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah)
      Do ya, do ya, do ya, do ya (ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah)
      Know what your doing, doing to me? (Ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah)
      Ruby, Ruby, Ruby, Ruby (ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah)”

      https://tinyurl.com/2hab9n7p

    370. John Main says:

      @Ruby 10:07

      By the new moderation rules laid down by Mia, you are allowed to make a fool of other posters on here, because you use a girl’s name when posting.

      One wee wrinkle though. You really shouldn’t use this license to make a fool of yourself!

      That aside though, you have a valid point earlier. If nobody can agree what a woman is, nobody can know what a trans woman is either. So the idea that people can be biased against something that can’t be defined collapses from its own illogical nature.

      Phew, that’s a relief. We can all move on to engage with reality. We can all move on to disengage from political parties that remain voluntarily mired in fantasy.

    371. Mia says:

      “Isn’t it more likely that plebiscitary Holyrood elections are more likely to bring about a result in 2026?”

      Why wait until 2026 and waste the great opportunity that will be the next parliamentary election, which will be the General Election?

      what is there to wait for?

      The only thing we will achieve waiting is having the misery of watching how Nicola Sturgeon stuffs us yet again, hands over more of our assets to the British state or to foreign companies and opens the door for the British state to re-write even more of our laws so we cannot go back to the EU and England can continue using our market as if it was its own.

      Haven’t we seen enough damage being done to Scotland by the chronic procrastination, lack of principles and apathy to Scotland’s autonomy displayed by this woman?

      Are we going to be forced to wait until she welds us even more to England with some form of enhanced devolution, Devo Max, Full Fiscal Responsibility, confederation nonsense or whatever crap name they want to rebrand it with to give the turd a facelift and make it more acceptable for the voters?

      when enough is enough?

      Yes supporters are absolutely fed up of having been pushed back by Nicola Sturgeon and her useless SNP for 8 years. The last thing we need now is to be pushed back by Alba as well.

      No Pro-indy plebiscite in parliamentary elections? No vote.
      If not for independence, what on earth are we voting for? To have our country ransacked even more while useless politicians fill up their bank accounts at our expense?

      No thanks.

    372. James Che. says:

      Scott,

      I did not make the claims,
      Zelenski did, at claus swab’s summit meeting in january 2022 .

      The ins and outs of their details you need to debate with them.

      I just bought the film to everyones attention.
      Because I realise there is a parallel universe between our small slow thoughts for the future, And their bigger perspective of the world ideas.

      Should we not be speeding up our independence momentum when taken this into account was my point.

    373. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Mia 12.23 pm

      I’m not discounting the use of a Westminster GE as a plebiscitary vote, I’m just not convinced it’ll happen in that timescale. I’d love all the pro-independence parties to declare now that ALL subsequent general elections, whether Westminster or Holyrood, will be regarded as de facto plebiscites, with 50% + 1 being taken as an automatic mandate, as people will know beforehand that is central to the platform. Westminster elections also exclude 16 and 17 year olds and lots of others who qualify for a Holyrood vote, who might be expected to be more pro-independence, so you’re losing a chunk of support right away.

      If the Yes movement has raised its game sufficiently by May 2024 then, yes let’s go for it by all means. I still reckon HR 2026 is more likely, but as Alex Salmond said in the conversation quoted above, things can change fast. Judging by the stasis of the past 7 years and the lack of any signet of meaningful change in the SNP, I’m not that optimistic. Perhaps things will be clearer after the local elections, particularly if the SNP and Greens get a bloody nose?

    374. James Che. says:

      Mia,
      I tend to agree that the mandates, the 8 years to prepare by the independence movement and by the snp have been plenty of time,

      And it is not an appealing thought to be strung along for a further two years, three years, five years even by Alba now.

      Politcians play a long game,
      And no one could accuse the Yes for independent Scotland of not being patient after all these years

    375. James Che. says:

      Perhaps more marches on a large scale could be arranged,
      Not for the purpose of msm, as they ignored them anyway,

      But to build the enthusiasm once more that covid interrupted.
      To let us remind the yes leaders of enthusiasm, that the people are there and perhaps ahead of the game.

    376. James Che. says:

      Ruby.

      That was a good point you made.

      How can you identify a trans- women,

      If no politician can identify a woman first, the whole arguement collapses in on its self.

    377. James Che. says:

      Ruby.

      Very similar to my arguement.

      How can we be in a treaty of union with the english parliament.

      When the English Parliament caused itself to cease to exist.

    378. Republicofscotland says:

      “The Alba Party seem to be quick to purge any ‘Putinista”
      (thanks to founder member Andy Ellis for being so vigilant. He’s the leader of the ‘Putinista Patrol’)”

      Ruby @9.38pm.

      This is probably because the foreign media that controls Scotland is anti-Russian and of course it has been blasting out anti-Russian propaganda for 50 days now, and Alba wants to win votes, like any party seeking votes they comply with the current narrative.

      In reality Russia has done nothing aggressive towards Scotland nor Scots, Scots are falling into line with the London, Washington narrative because they’ve been propagandised to do so. Why should we make enemies of other nations such as Russia or China to help push the Westminster Washington Brussels agenda.

      Sturgeon the betrayer wants a no-flyzone over Ukraine, which would surely kick-off WWIII, she should keep her mouth shut and concentrate on freeing us from this fetid union.

      Scots I’m sad to say have lost the critical ability to think for themselves outside the box, and most just fall into line with what the foreign controlled media and Scottish government say to them.

      Always remember Westminster and its foreign security services are no friend to Scotland.

    379. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      18 April, 2022 at 9:54 am

      “As for helping to rid the party of Putinistas I certainly can’t take the credit, since the skid mark in human form involved had already been shown the door when I and a number of others made complaints.”

      What were you complaining about then? Was it just another opportunity to make out you are ‘Mr Tough Guy, Mr Important Slayer of Putinistas’? Do you often get into trouble? Do people who you call ‘skid marks in humam form’ ever confront you? If that person is all you say he is isn’t it a bit stupid to provoke him by calling him names? As I said you post like an anonymous troll using your real name & continually ‘cruisin for a bruisin?. Totally bonkers!

    380. James Che. says:

      How people, how populations of the world can be led by the nose to believe all that politicians say, or speak is the truth,
      Only to find it is truth severely manipulated.

      Ruby’s logic applied to the Trans-…….. issue tears apart politicians ideology in the way they wish to change and lead our beliefs down a path that holds little reality.

      We must apply our logic to all trope being spewed out by politicians and politics,

      How often and for how long we wish to be hoodwinked is up to us,
      To ask the questions
      To apply common sense, logic and a inquisitive mind to the main stream often funded popular beliefs of the day, month or year,

      Regardless of the attacks for breaking the mold by those whom wish us to follow only one line of thought, THEIRS.

    381. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 2.04 pm

      In order:
      – I’m not complaining;
      – No, that’s not what it’s about except to folk like you who could start an argument in an empty room;
      – No;
      – No, because the overwhelming majority of such folk are snivelling anonymous keyboard warriors who talk a good game but would have a fit of the vapours if confronted in person. I would however not hesitate to tell them to their face what I tell them here. I doubt the same could be said of low lives like you hiding behind the safety of their anonymity Ruby. If folk don’t want to be told they’re moonhowlers or regressive blood and soil nationalists or Putinistas, then they could just stop being those things. If not, tough!
      – No, people who call Putin a hero or who say the Ukrainians had it coming need to be faced down. I don’t give it shit if they’re provoked by having the light shine on their odious opinions.
      – The fact you can’t see the difference between me posting under my real name and calling people out for their extremism, and you sitting behind the veil of your cosy anonymity calling me a cunt every other sentence tells us all we need to know about you as a person, your ability to debate and that you have no idea what a troll is. Trouble is, you’re not even a very engaging troll, just a bottom feeding sweary harridan.

    382. Andy Ellis says:

      @Putin’s Poodle 1.35 pm

      “This is probably because the foreign media that controls Scotland is anti-Russian and of course it has been blasting out anti-Russian propaganda for 50 days now,..”

      I think it’ll be news to most Scots that their country is controlled by foreign media. However jaundiced a view most of us have of our own or foreign media, the idea that we’re all hapless dupes under their control will be seen by all but the most credulous for the hyperbolic bullshit it so obviously is. In particular, coming from an individual who has spent the past months uncritically regurgitating talking points from the Kremlin agitprop manual, or fluffing QAnon conspiracy theorising from the outer reaches of the internet that not even most Trump supporters are stupid enough to believe, we can safely discount your “hot take”

      “..and Alba wants to win votes, like any party seeking votes they comply with the current narrative.”
      Of course the party wants to win votes: it’d be a strange party if it didn’t. Most people in the party don’t accept your narrative, they accept the fairly mainstream narrative which accepts that this is a war of Russian aggression and cannot be excused with reference to spurious arguments that the Russians felt encircled, or that the Ukraine was riddled with / controlled by neo-nazis, or was a threat to Russia. You can be as butt-hurt as you like about the fact that only a vanishingly small percentage of the population buy your narrative, but it doesn’t change the facts.

      “In reality Russia has done nothing aggressive towards Scotland nor Scots, Scots are falling into line with the London, Washington narrative because they’ve been propagandised to do so.”
      That’s not how things work. People around the world see the actions of foreign government as threats to their own interests, and the interests of others. The others don’t even have to be allies, or direct neighbours. Myanmar has done nothing aggressive toward Scotland or Scots, but it doesn’t mean we should give them a free hand to massacre Rohingyas, any more than we should allow Putins regime to extinguish Ukrainian independence and carpet bomb its civilians.

      You of course are on record as saying the Ukrainians had it coming. It will appear to most who don’t share your deeply odious world view that you’ve been propagandised to accept the Kremlin’s narrative. The fact that countries like Finland and Sweden are now about to abandon decades – or in Sweden’s case centuries – of neutrality to join NATO would give most reasonable people pause for thought that the Russians are the baddies here.

      You on the other hand don’t even have the self awareness to be the political equivalent one of the characters in the Mitchell and Webb sketch, with a Death’s Head Badge on your cap, wondering if you might be on their side, you just keep parroting the same failed mantras you’ve been spouting for months.

      Nobody cares what Sturgeon thinks about the Ukraine, or no-fly zones. No rational person in the west, or NATO or the media gave any credence to calls for the imposition of such a zone.

      The vast majority of Scots I know are nothing like your description. It’s folk like you who have “lost the critical ability to think for themselves outside the box, and most just fall into line with what the foreign controlled media”. The fact is it is Russian state controlled media that you are channelling.

    383. Ruby says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      18 April, 2022 at 1:35 pm

      “The Alba Party seem to be quick to purge any ‘Putinista”
      (thanks to founder member Andy Ellis for being so vigilant. He’s the leader of the ‘Putinista Patrol’)”

      Ruby @9.38pm.

      This is probably because the foreign media that controls Scotland is anti-Russian

      Or could it be due to past experiences Alex Salmond has had with being accused of being “Putin’s Poodle”?
      Do you remember the interview Alex Salmond did in GQ magazine in 2014 & then there’s RT. I wonder what Ellis was saying back then.

      The point I was making was that it looked like Alba were overly concerned with folk labelled ‘Putinistas’ and not bothered about ‘Misogynistas’ not a word of criticism about what Craig Murray said. He stupidly referred to women standing up for women’s rights as being anti-trans and said other stupid things about women having lunch & wine & owning expensive mobile phones & comparing them to the very poor woman he has seen in his many travels all over the world or some such rubbish.

      I felt pretty mad at Craig I thought what he said was stupid & probably discouraged women from voting Alba. Not a clever thing to do especially when the Tories are using ‘women’s rights’ to win votes. Tories looking very good on the issue of women’s rights!

      If Craig has decided to be a high profile ‘anti-woman campaigner’ he too will have to answer the question ‘What is a woman” Good Luck with that pal! Many have tried and none have succeeded.

      It’s one thing the media in Scotland being controlled by outside influences it’s another thing the media controlling your mind.

      You would think readers of Wings would be aware of the ‘black art of media manipulation’ but it seems not.

    384. Mia says:

      @Andy

      To be fair, I am not under the illusion “all” the pro indy parties are going to adopt a plebiscite. They won’t. All the signs are there that suggest the SNP under Sturgeon has already sold Scotland’s independence years ago in exchange for some form of crap devolution or quasi federation nonsense and are only biting time and waiting for the right opportunity to deliver the blow, preferably through a mechanism that makes it look like it was our choice.

      It is for this reason that I think the SNP will never agree to a plebiscite. If they did, they would have already used the last Holyrood election for this, if not for anything meaningful in practice, at least for the pure narcissism of rub it in the faces of those in Westminster. She didn’t even try. She even went to the ridiculous situation of forcefully destroy any possibility of a pro indy supermajority that would have made independence unstoppable. I think any hope this procrastinator was ever serious about independence, died that day.

      As per the Greens, independence was never their main objective, so what is in for them?

      But we only need one loudspeaker, one party. If we don’t win at least we will deliver a big brown nose to those who have been following the strategy of delay to bore us into submission and disenfranchise fundamentalists.

      It is as important to be able to vote in a plebiscite as it is to send the message that we are not settling for devolution and we are not going back in the box. The message has to be that we are going to take that independence not matter what and no matter who and we are not going to stop until we get it.

      With regards to the franchise, I invite you to take a look at the percentage of pro indy vote in the GE2015 and that in Holyrood 2016. In GE2015 the percentage of pro indy vote was just above 50%. In Holyrood 2016 the percentage of pro indy vote (I counted the regional because the greens got very few constitutional votes) was 48.3% In Holyrood 2021 it was 48.4%. In 5 years it did not move did not move, despite all what happened.

      How do you explain this?
      In several ways:

      1. the 16 and 17 year olds and others that can vote in Holyrood but not in Westminster are not as pro indy as others may have led you to believe

      2. During Holyrood elections the British state through its political arms can import voters from elsewhere. At the end of the day those voters do not need even to move up here to cast their vote, they can send it by post. During GEs they need those voters down south to ensure the tories/labour keep their corrupt bums on the green seats. In other words. There is competition for activists votes during GE but not during Holyrood votes, hence you are much more likely to see bigger interference during Holyrood/Scotland’s referendums than during GEs, particularly those, like the upcoming one, that are contentious because the puppets of the establishment (the tories) might be about to lose the driving wheel.

      What is clear Andy is that we are going to need several goes at this. Why? Because the British state will do everything in their hand to stop a pro indy win to emerge, particularly when they are in the process of cutting trade deals with other countries and they need our market as a recipient for the foreign goods/services.

      The only way to win this is by being persistent and send the clear message that Scotland is not going to stop until it gets its independence by whatever channel or route is available to her. And if there isn’t one available, we will make one.

    385. Ruby says:

      Another mile long post full of abuse addressed to me by Andy Ellis.

      What do you suppose Andy Ellis wants from me?

    386. Republicofscotland says:

      Agent Ellis @3.11pm.

      Oh please spare me sanctimonious BS, NATO the UN and the EU has allowed the oppressive apartheid military occupying force in Palestine known as Israel to murder Palestinians indiscriminately for over 70 years.

      So don’t give me that shite that we must rise to the challenge and save democracies, (this time with Ukraine in mind which is infested with Neo-Nazi’s and controlled by the US) around the globe speel, Nato is a gun for hire bully boy which has US interests at heart, the EU is now totally captured by the Great Satan, (possibly Serbia and Hungary aside) and should be added to the Monroe Doctrine, if there is any decency within the UN its hands are well and truly tied again by the Great Satan.

    387. Breeks says:

      Mia says:
      18 April, 2022 at 3:10 pm

      ….She even went to the ridiculous situation of forcefully destroy any possibility of a pro indy supermajority that would have made independence unstoppable. I think any hope this procrastinator was ever serious about independence, died that day.

      I actually think Sturgeon’s grovelling failures are so servile, and unconstitutional in their disregard for Constitutional Sovereignty, that if the will was there to do it, Holyrood, (First Minister and all), and it’s Scotland Act small ‘c’ constitution could simply be sidelined – dismissed completely as a colonial extension of Westminster rule. Sturgeon has made it pretty clear that’s precisely what she thinks Holyrood is.

      The irony is, a Holyrood Supermajority is no more Constitutionally legit than a Section 30 Agreement. It only matters to Holyrood, not beyond. They both pander to the Scotland Act, the intrusive and alien legislation of Westminster, not the Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland.

      I very much hope when Scotland opts for the creation of a Grand Committee / Convention, whatever it’s called, that it absolutely does NOT recognise the Scotland Act as anything more than intrusive colonial encroachment; a subordinate assembly masquerading as a Government.

      The Scotland Act might arguably hold limited sway in Holyrood and perhaps those sworn to a servile oath, but that’s tenuous. But it’s constitutional jurisdiction doesn’t get past the threshold at the front door. In the realm of Scotland outside Holyrood, it’s the people who are sovereign.

      I say we should create our Constitutional People’s Grand Committee by first principles, swearing allegiance to the Scottish doctrine of popular Sovereignty and forsaking all others.

      Once the writing is on the Wall for Holyrood’s Constitutional “demotion”, I think the SNP will have to jump ship and start respecting the Constitution of Scotland, or sink into obscurity as a defunct colonial outpost of a forlorn Vichy type Government.

      There is one rub. The people of Scotland will need to be convinced that our Constitutional Sovereignty is supreme, and a more powerful institution that both Westminster and / or Holyrood.

      It is, – but the people must be convinced.

    388. Republicofscotland says:

      Yes Ruby, I recall Sturgeon the betrayer berating Salmond for having a show on RT, which is now banned in the UK, that alone speaks volumes to me about Sturgeon.

      As for Craig Murray he opened a can of worms with trying to placate all sides in the trans debate, I can’t speak for him, but I’m definitely on the side of real women, and I think that’s Alba’s stance as well.

      Real women have fought hard to win their rights and private spaces, and the SNP should not be allowed to take them away from them.

    389. Mia says:

      @Breeks

      I am of the opinion the Scotland Act became void the minute England MPs ripped off the Sewel convention and helped themselves to those non reserved powers without our consent.

      The Scotland Act was an agreement. A contract. A contract becomes void if one of the two partners unilaterally breaches one of the conditions without the consent of the other.

      The only thing that is needed in that circumstance to have the contract recognised officially as void is for the offended party to actually declare it so.

      I have been waiting ever since for Nicola Sturgeon to either open her mouth and declaring the Act a void contract or show the backbone to acknowledge she agreed to the assault on the Act without our consent.

      But there is something 8 years have shown is that the woman is an unprincipled coward, so I am not holding my breath.

    390. Mia says:

      @Breeks

      I am of the opinion the Scotland Act became void the minute England MPs ripped off the Sewel convention and helped themselves to those non reserved powers without our consent.

      The Scotland Act was an agreement. A contract. A contract becomes void if one of the two partners unilaterally breaches one of the conditions without the consent of the other.

      The only thing that is needed in that circumstance to have the contract recognised officially as void is for the offended party to actually declare it so.

      I have been waiting ever since for Nicola Sturgeon to either open her mouth and declaring the Act a void contract or show the backbone to acknowledge she agreed to the assault on the Act without our consent.

      But there is something 8 years have shown is the woman is an unprincipled coward, so I am not holding my breath.

    391. Mia says:

      Rev Stu,
      I had a problem with my internet connexion while attempting to submit my comment. Unfortunately as a consequence my comment is duplicated.

      Please, could you remove one of them?

      Thank you kindly.

    392. Robert Graham says:

      Topic – Progress update ?

      I had to laugh ,aye the old ones are the best ones .

      I wonder how far would this Tory Government would push before Sturgeon and the SNP get off their arses and say nope it aint happening pal,
      Nuclear power stations to supply England with Electricity , clean water again sent to England for their consumption , a bottomless pit to store Englands waste I guess the list would be endless .

      And it’s a real pity we dont have a political party in power that has the balls to say fk off boris this is our country go and take a fk to yourself .

      The local elections are a chance to remind sturgeon and the SNP they govern with our consent not the other way round , it’s a pity I dont have a ALBA candidate in my area because I cant vote for what are good honest SNP candidates because Sturgeon and Murrel have poisoned the well so they by association are tainted with the smell of liars and deceivers ,a very sad state that should never be allowed to happen again .

    393. James Che. says:

      Breeks.

      I all for a people committee or convention out side of the devolved government.

      But as a reminder as to why it is there, and why it was needed for the future.

      We must insert into the title “the Sovereign Scots,”

      For it shall not be stolen from the people ever again and changed or altered by into a party politic Convention/ Assembly.

      The reminder of its purpose in the title .

    394. James Che. says:

      Mia.

      And i am of the opinion that the treaty of the union became void when England closed it parliament in 1707.

      Due to The treaty agreement solely being with the Scottish and English Parliaments respectively.

      We’re still waiting for logic and common sense to catch up, perhaps we need Ruby to spell it out.

    395. Breeks says:


      Mia says:
      18 April, 2022 at 4:44 pm

      @Breeks

      I am of the opinion the Scotland Act became void the minute England MPs ripped off the Sewel convention and helped themselves to those non reserved powers without our consent.

      That article I wrote for Barrheadboy which went on about red sovereignty and white sovereignty was a long time in the writing, because I think there has always been an Constitutional ambiguity about Holyrood, precisely along the red and white lines which I described.

      I have always been uneasy calling Holyrood a Parliament, because a parliament is defined as a sovereign seat of Government, which Holyrood may or may not be.

      You do have instances of white sovereignty, but you also have unequivocal instances of red sovereignty, but that’s the thing, the sovereignties are mutually exclusive, binary and absolute conditions. You can have one or the other, but it’s binary, you cannot have both.

      In spite of Sturgeon’s Constitutional gaffs and sublime idiocy, I don’t think the matter has been settled, and were the Scottish people resolved to do it, I believe they could easily assert the Red Sovereignty of MSP’s elected by Scotland’s sovereign people is the legitimate and dominant sovereignty in Scotland, and that Westminster White Sovereignty is the imposter.

      In other words, we keep Holyrood, but boot the colonial Scotland Act into orbit, together with all the white sovereignty codified in the Devolution settlement. I believe that’s doable, and Holyrood could yet be reclaimed as a Red Sovereignty Institution. This is the bones of what Martin Keatings was attempting to do…

      But if Sturgeon is determined to defend Devolution, and maintain a Holyrood Institution which bows to the will of Westminster, then Scotland’s sovereign people have the alternative option of denouncing Holyrood as a colonial Office and puppet assembly of Wesminster. The people might then create a different Constitutionally sound administration of Red Sovereignty, which is totally independent of, and separate from, a White Holyrood.

      Personally, I think keeping Holyrood but making it Red is the better option, but if circumstances require it, abandoning and denouncing a colonial White Holyrood in lieu of Constitutional Grant Committee wielding Red Sovereignty can suit our ends just as well.

    396. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mia 3.10 pm

      I agree with you that the current SNP are not suddenly going to become adherents of plebiscitary elections. The only scenarios I can see that happening are a palace coup within the SNP from the rank and file to topple the Sturgeonistas (I don’t think any of us will be holding our collective breath?), or a situation where explicitly plebiscitary parties hold the balance of power and force the hand of an unwilling SNP as the price for them being in government, which would only really work in a Holyrood context.

      We can’t realistically expect the SNP to just curl up and die, much as it would be poetic justice to see them suffer the same fate as the IPP in Ireland at the hands of Sinn Fein over a century ago. As Alex said, polls can change quickly, so it’s not impossible.

      WRT the franchise, the 49.97% achieved by the SNP at the Westminster GE wasn’t in response to an explicitly plebiscitary platform, encouraging as the result was at the time. We have to accept that a lot of people voting SNP at a Westminster GE – particularly post establishment of Holyrood – weren’t voting for them because they wanted independence. I suspect some of it was based on giving the establishment a bloody nose, and “buyers remorse” over the Vow and falling for Project Fear.

      Similarly we can’t assume all votes for the SNP at Holyrood are pro-independence votes. It’s instructive that the Holyrood votes hardly moved between 2016 and 21: you’d have thought all those disillusioned young folk and EU nationals would have made a difference. Perhaps too many of the EU folk had left by that point?

      I agree we can’t ever give up, I think my point of difference with some of those proposing “novel” routes is that building the groundswell of support necessary to use them, rather than using plebiscitary elections or a referendum (not that I think another referendum is anywhere in sight!) may actually take longer than concentrating at least initially on HR2026 and if possible helping ensure the SNP is either destroyed or overhauled.

    397. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 3.30 pm

      “What do you suppose Andy Ellis wants from me?”

      A period of silence would be good. If you cam back a better person it would be even better. None of us will be holding our breath.

    398. Scott says:

      James Che. says:
      18 April, 2022 at 5:56 pm

      Mia.

      And i am of the opinion that the treaty of the union became void when England closed it parliament in 1707.

      Due to The treaty agreement solely being with the Scottish and English Parliaments respectively.

      Article III of Union with England Act 1707, Union with Scotland Act 1706 created the Parliament of Great Britain.

      The English parliament and the Scottish parliament didn’t cease to exist as entities, otherwise neither Act could have force to this day – both Acts remain extant, so anyone claiming ‘there’s no such thing as the ‘Old Scottish parliament’ (sic)’ is a balloon.

      Neither parliament has convened since 1707, as they have no authority to pass legislation, but in theory could sit as advisory bodies.

    399. John Main says:

      @Republic 3:43

      Ukraine is not “infested” with neo-Nazis.

      Ukraine is not controlled by the US.

      The EU is not captured by the US; some eastern countries of the EU, with previous experience of rule from Moscow, are extremely keen to avoid a repeat of what was a terrible time for them.

      The hands of the UN are not tied by the US, or any of your hysterically named Satans.

      You are of no use to the Indy movement in this state Republic, as you can no longer tell reality from fantasy. Why don’t you get some help yourself?

    400. Andy Ellis says:

      @Breeks 4.02 pm

      “I say we should create our Constitutional People’s Grand Committee by first principles, swearing allegiance to the Scottish doctrine of popular Sovereignty and forsaking all others.”

      How do we convince Scots people though breeks? Who decides on the creation of this Grand Committee? Who is eligible for membership? How are they elected? How do we demonstrate the legitimacy of this body to the international community, and prove to them it has surpassed and replaced Holyrood?

      Accepting the sovereignty of the Scottish people is one thing – even some in unionist parties would say they ultimately accepted that as a principle – but moving on from that to a Grand Committee and effectively binning Holyrood and Westminster is no easy task.

    401. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      18 April, 2022 at 6:19 pm

      I agree we can’t ever give up, I think my point of difference with some of those proposing “novel” routes is that building the groundswell of support necessary to use them, rather than using plebiscitary elections or a referendum (not that I think another referendum is anywhere in sight!) may actually take longer than concentrating at least initially on HR2026 and if possible helping ensure the SNP is either destroyed or overhauled.

      We can give up, Andy, when Scot’s law is fully independent again.

      A ‘stress-test of the union’ test case has been proposed, but you’re against it because support needs to be built for it.

      HIGNFY, support doesn’t need to be built. In such a case brought by ONE PERSON, any and all who support ‘the motion’ can be automatically added as ‘joint sponsor’, similarly opponents could be also.

      The judiciary would then control the outcome – think of it as the simplest form of referendum.

      All legal, all fair, yw;hth.

    402. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      18 April, 2022 at 6:28 pm

      @Ruby 3.30 pm

      “What do you suppose Andy Ellis wants from me?”

      A period of silence would be good. If you cam back a better person it would be even better. None of us will be holding our breath.

      The solution is in your hands. You see my posts and you just scroll past. Hey presto you can have as long a period of silence as you want.

      If that is too difficult for you you could just stay away from Wings & find another website.
      None of
      us will miss you.

      If women fighting for women’s rights are transphobic aka anti-trans what does that make Alba?

    403. Mia says:

      @James

      I think what you say is very interesting.

      To be honest with you, when I look at the Uk I see a mini EU. There is a EU parliament, alright but that did not mean all the EU states had to give up their own.

      I have read the Treaty of union (and Act of union with England) countless times. Every time I notice something different.

      I can clearly see that the Kingdoms of England and Scotland were meant to unite to form “the united Kingdom of Great Britain”. Well, the EU states united to form the EUropean Union. Different name, same concept.

      I can also see in the treaty that there is meant to be a new parliament, the Great Britain Parliament. But nowhere I saw it explicitly in the treaty that Scotland’s Parliament had to disappear. This is reinforced by the fact that it is only a tiny fraction of the Scottish MPs and Lords that were sent down to England.

      There is another thing though, 1713. That was the very first time there was a serious attempt to terminate the union. That was only 7 years after the Treaty was agreed. So if anybody should know if Scotland’s parliament was dead or not would be those Lords and MPs in 1713. They seemed to be pretty confident the treaty could end and things could revert as they were before.

      There is nothing in the wording of that treaty that stops Scotland having 100 parliaments if it wants. That treaty refers only to the parliament of the union, not Scotland.

      The fact that the Scottish parliament was not ended, only suspended suggests those MPs thought there was a strong possibility it would reconvene again.

    404. Republicofscotland says:

      Main @6.37pm.

      Oh its infested alright and the Nazi’s at the Azovstal complex (minus to the two UK mad dog mercenaries Shaun Pinner and CosackGrundi who were captured and will now stand trial in Russia for all the world to see), are about to be dealt a fatal blow.

      Ukraine was couped in 2014 the coup was staged via the US embassy in Kiev, US State Department official Victoria Nuland helped the coup succeed, Ukrainian President Victor Yanukovych was replaced with Arxeniy Yatsenyuk, a Great Satan puppet.

      The EU via Nato is totally captured by the US, the US says what goes as head of Nato and the EU nations in Nato follow suit, the Ukraine operation by Russia has exposed this even more so.

      If the hands of the UN are not tied by the Great Satan, then why can’t the UN do anything significant about Israeli war crimes in Palestine, we all know fine well that the US and its puppet states veto anything that might impinge on Israeli activities in Palestine.

      Tell me Main when was the last time an Israeli general was in the dock at the Hague facing crimes against humanity charges, and why hasn’t Blair or Bush found themselves in the dock at the Hague either, we both know the answer to that question.

      I take it back the EU isn’t captured by the Great Satan, its a willing participant in its machinations.

    405. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 6.37 pm

      “You are of no use to the Indy movement in this state Republic, as you can no longer tell reality from fantasy. Why don’t you get some help yourself?”

      His is an interesting pathology isn’t it? I wonder what percentage of “ordinary” Scots voters actually share his world view? Unselfconscious use of the term “Great Satan” was always a tell from the get go, of course but it takes a really special person to come out with the line that the Ukrainians “had it coming”, and steadfastly refuse to row back from it.

      He says he supports Alba, but I have my doubts, particularly as it’s unlikely Alba has a branch in Omsk, or Kazan or wherever he’s actually based.

      Only someone truly deluded could continue with the “Ukraine is infested with nazis” narrative with such monotonous regularity. Notice he never responds when challenged about the Russian neo-nazis in the Donbas, or the objectively far worse problem in Russia with the far right, nationalists and anti-semites, not to mention of course the deeply regressive Putin regime itself.

      Also instructive that Putin’s Poodle, while demanding that we emote excessively over the fate of those killed in the Donbass (or Palestine, Yemen, Iraq etc) will never be heard to express any remorse or empathy for those killed by Russian separatists in the Donbas, or by the current Russian “special military operation”, or in Georgia, or Chechnya or the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

      Sauce for the goose, eh….?

      I’m waiting for his denial that the Moskva has sunk, or if it was it spontaneously combusted then sank in the hurricane force storm (that somehow didn’t show up in any meteorological reports) when being towed back. Definitely nothing to do with the Ukrainians, no sirree….that nice Mr Pskov couldn’t be wrong could he? 🙂

    406. John Main says:

      @Ruby 6:59

      “None of us will miss you”

      Naw, you’re wrong there. Again.

      Andy regularly provides some much needed sanity, reason and balance BTL.

      Soz.

    407. Andy Ellis says:

      Ukraine has returned its completed membership questionnaire to the EU only 10 days after it was delivered by Ursula von der Leyen. It could gain candidate membership in a matter of weeks.

      “Extraordinary times take extraordinary steps and extraordinary speed.” according to EU’s ambassador to the Ukraine Matti Maasikas.

      Both Georgia and Moldova have also been given questionnaires. So much for the britnats beloved queue to get in to the EU, eh? 🙂

      https://twitter.com/MattiMaasikas/status/1516055949823336453?cxt=HHwWioCzzdO2jooqAAAA

    408. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      18 April, 2022 at 7:18 pm

      Andy regularly provides some much needed sanity, reason and balance BTL.

      Does he fuck. He’s a gainsaying fool, as are you.

      Now I’ve got that feeling, once again. Grrr…

      I can’t explain, you would not understand, but here goes…

      Somewhere there’s a group of balloons, all looking skywards wondering what village ‘those two idiots’ are missing from.

    409. James Che. says:

      Breeks

      Interesting analogy as to wether the Scottish parliament holds Sovereignty or not.

      And wether it can beclaimed msps would have sovereignty in future.
      Wether parliament or msps, the answer has to remain no.

      For sovereign parliaments bring us an echo of the position that Westminster takes upon its self.
      Do we wish to copy that?
      Equally the position that a certain set of msps have sovereignty echo’s the behaviour of NS and the present snp.
      Do we wish to copy that ?

      The scottish parliament basis its replication authority on the almost identical foundation of Westminster parliament which in turn has it roots in the old English colonial Parliament.

      Why Have these forms of parliaments started failing not only people, but our countries as well?

      Simply because it is a top down system. Which drains all resources from the roots to feed the upper echelons at the top.
      This might work for a tree,
      but not for the wellbeing of all society.
      It drains human resources of goodness at ground level,

      Of course there has to be order to prevent chaos, there has to be a set of systems to function,
      Lending someone something does not equal, ownership or entitlement though.
      Which seems to be the confusion presented by the state of thinking from the snp right now.

      But this is simply buildings holding orderly functioning office work.
      By choosing good managerial positions.

      The think tank should be the people, genuine straight up every day citizens selected from all walks of life similar to how a jury for a trial would be,

      This way all voices are heard , all are included from scientists, bin men, journalists and bloggers tradesmen ,artists , different ethics, office workers and women, younger and older generations

      This should be the Assemblies think tank for problem solving and confirming / passing on ideas to be implemented in a legal sense to the next department after many publically open deliberations.
      Keeping the foundation and process clean from high paid politicians whom act like they own the people akin to colonial slaves.

      Scotland should start its politics from the bottom upwards.

    410. Andy Ellis says:

      This news just in from Putin’s Poodle: the glorious flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet Moskva has definitely not, repeat NOT been sunk by Ukrainian neo-nazi Neptune missiles and comical ineptitude by the glorious Russian navy, it has simply decided to self identify as a submarine. MESSAGE ENDS

    411. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      18 April, 2022 at 7:21 pm

      Ukraine has returned its completed membership questionnaire to the EU only 10 days after it was delivered by Ursula von der Leyen. It could gain candidate membership in a matter of weeks.

      —-
      Giving EU companies the chance to rebuild Ukraine, via procurement laws?

      This isn’t an act of charity, it’s a business decision founded on vulture/disaster capitalism.

      ‘USA plc’ part own most of the companies that will win contracts and both EU/USA hegemony will continue, but US dominance via petrodollar will continue; £GBP will be affected by the strengths of both the Euro and $US, also the Yen, the Rupee et al via EU trade deals etc…UK will be left on the outside looking in, unless it has backdoor access to all the goodies…tax havens anyone?

    412. John Main says:

      @Republic 7:13

      Approx 300,000 dead in Chechnya thanks to Russian aggression, genocide, war crimes, etc.

      Nobody in The Hague for that one either.

      Funny that. I would expect that a UN entirely in the grip of the assorted satans might have been able to do something.

      I don’t know if you have the smarts to know the difference between mercenaries and volunteers in wartime. For those readers who can tell the difference, the men you refer to are volunteers. Independent sources believe there are currently around 1000 international volunteers in Ukraine, fighting or fulfilling other roles in support of the war and other humanitarian efforts.

      These men and women are direct descendants of the heros who fought with the Republicans in the International Brigades against Fascism during the 1930s. The fact that they are now being criticised by somebody pretending to the label of Republicanism shows just how deluded you are.

    413. Scott says:

      James Che. says:

      Scotland should start its politics from the bottom upwards.

      I second that emotion.

    414. Ruby says:

      James Che. says:
      18 April, 2022 at 5:56 pm

      Mia.

      And i am of the opinion that the treaty of the union became void when England closed it parliament in 1707.

      Due to The treaty agreement solely being with the Scottish and English Parliaments respectively.

      We’re still waiting for logic and common sense to catch up, perhaps we need Ruby to spell it out.

      🙂
      I think you are doing a pretty good job yourself James.
      I’ll have a go although I am currently specialising in trying to find the answer to the question ‘What is a transwoman?’

      England ceased to exist in 1707 when they closed their parliament and became the United Kingdom Parliament. Scotland temporarily closed our parliament in 1707 but then it was re-opened in 1997 whereas England has never re-opened their parliament. You can’t have an agreement/treaty or whatever with a parliament, shop, business, partner that no longer exists.
      We are free we have no treaty. There are no treaties in the valley of the dead & England is dead. RIP England 1007-1707 Died aged 700 years

      We are free all we need to do now is to seek help for our agoraphobia & colonialitis! 🙂

      England is just the old name for the UK just in the same way as Persia is the old name for Iran, Ceylon for Sri Lanka, Holland for Netherlands etc.
      You’ll note that many people still use the old name for the UK and refer to the UK parliament as the English parliament, the queen as the Queen of England etc. The Bank never changed it’s name for some strange reason. We won’t worry about that because there is no money in the Bank of the UK just £2 trillion of debt.

      Don’t you just love “Horrid Histories’?

    415. John Main says:

      Scott

      I can’t speak for Andy.

      I try to post here only to correct errors of fact, or to point out when a post contains contradictory sections, or to highlight logical fallacies. If somebody has posted something of interest, I may ask a question or two.

      If that is unacceptable to some here, then tough balloon.

      WGD is still thriving for those so fragile and precious they can only feel comfortable in the warm bath of complete, unquestioning unanimity of view from all posters.

    416. Ruby says:

      John Main says:

      These men and women are direct descendants of the heros who fought with the Republicans in the International Brigades against Fascism during the 1930s.

      That’s not very encouraging for the Ukrainians. The Fascist won and were in power from 1939 to 1975. The ancestors of Ukranians (the Nazi ones) were the ‘heros’ who fought against the Republicans and helped the fascists gain power in Spain. Picasso depicted their work in a painting called Guernica.

    417. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      18 April, 2022 at 8:08 pm

      I can’t speak for Andy.

      I try to post here only to correct errors of fact, or to point out when a post contains contradictory sections, or to highlight logical fallacies. If somebody has posted something of interest, I may ask a question or two.

      If that is unacceptable to some here, then tough balloon.

      I didn’t say it was unacceptable, only that the two of you are gainsaying fools.

      The previous paragraph is pure self-aggrandisement.

      I didn’t accuse you of speaking for him or ask, so the first statement seems superfluous. Maybe you are Andy, and it’s a lie…you previously suggested ‘Hatuey’ was someone else also – think it was Ruby. Maybe you/Andy/Hatuey/Ruby are the same person; who knows, who cares? But if true, WGD is still thriving etc…

    418. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      18 April, 2022 at 8:08 pm

      Scott

      I can’t speak for Andy.

      I try to post here only to correct errors of fact, or to point out when a post contains contradictory sections,

      Why? It seems like a strange hobby to have especially when most people here have no respect for you or this knowledge you claim to have. Would it not be more pleasant for you to have a discussion with others rather than coming on here claiming to know more than everybody else?
      What sort of qualifications do you have? What are your specialist subjects?
      Why should anyone believe a single thing you write?

    419. Republicofscotland says:

      “Approx 300,000 dead in Chechnya thanks to Russian aggression, genocide, war crimes, etc.

      Nobody in The Hague for that one either.”

      Main.

      Agreed, in other words as I have been stating the (ICC) isn’t fit for purpose, I never once said that Russia was a innocent utopia, but nevertheless it doesn’t take away from the fact that Ukraine is hoaching with Nazi’s and the 2014 coup by the Great Satan installed one puppet president after another.

      As for the so called UK mercenaries CossackGrundi, fought against the legitimate Syrian government for the West, he also made an appearance in Bosnia.

      ” Independent sources believe there are currently around 1000 international volunteers in Ukraine”

      I put it around at least 6,000 mercs, many killed some captured, even though they have no rights as mercenaries, many of these mad dog mercenaries are hold up in the Azovstal Complex underground, out of ammo and supplies, their fates are all but sealed.

      They are not descendants, but right wing neo-Nazi’s and Anti-Russian sympathisers from across Europe and further afield, along with all the dregs of humanity that fought for the Great Satan in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan.

    420. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main

      As suspected the hard of thinking like Ruby fall for the “Ah, but the Republicans lost…” and / or “the Ukrainian nazis were on the other side…” etc. A Fascist victory in 1939 wasn’t pre-ordained, it was the result of a huge variety of factors. The same could be said of the situation in the Ukraine in the decades before WW2.

      To the ill educated (or simply ill intentioned like Putin’s Poodle for example) it’s always a simple matter. So the fact that there are a relatively negligible number of neo-nazis in modern Ukraine, probably with less influence and power there than the far right like the KKK have in the USA , or far right Russian nationalists have in Russia, becomes a huge shibboleth and reason enough to caricature the Ukraine as captured across the board by neo nazis.

      People like Ruby are probably just too intellectually lazy to do the research about Ukrainian history, others however misrepresent it for a purpose. In the case of the Putinistas it is to serve the agenda of their masters by constructing fanciful conspiracy theories about the Great Satan, the WEF, NATO, the Illuminati and space lizards. At best it’s just Ickeian nonsense, at worst however it’s pretty nauseating nudge, nudge stuff about George Soros and the masters of the universe.

      Thankfully they don’t have it all their own way, huh? 🙂

    421. Republicofscotland says:

      Agent Ellis @7.38pm.

      Of course the forty year old ship has sunk whilst being towed to port, what’s unconfirmed is what caused the explosion, unsurprisingly the West puts it down to a Ukrainian missile.

      Of course another Russian warship was meant have been sunk off Snake island by the brave Nazi’s on the island this of course turned out to be untrue.

      However what is undeniable is that thousands of Ukrainian troops surrendered recently, and with supply lines and fuel lines cut, the Nazi’s won’t be moving anywhere soon in a hurry, only a small force is needed to pin down the trapped Nazi’s in Azovstal Complex, whilst the majority of the BTG’s tighten the cauldron around the dug in Nazis in the Donbas.

    422. Republicofscotland says:

      ” So the fact that there are a relatively negligible number of neo-nazis in modern Ukraine”

      Really.

      https://forward.com/news/462916/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-ukraine/

      https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/31/partnering-neo-nazis-ukraine-history/

    423. Republicofscotland says:

      “People like Ruby are probably just too intellectually lazy to do the research about Ukrainian history,”

      Here you go Ruby, Agent Ellis thinks you’re lazy.

      https://www.voltairenet.org/article216406.html

    424. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 8.31 pm

      You don’t speak for most people in here either Ruby, just a small claque of extremists. The fact they don’t have any respect for John Main or anyone else is probably reason for celebration on their part. I know that John Main and I don’t agree on many topics politically but unlike you and the other usual suspects his level of knowledge, and his attachment to reality rather than woo-woo conspiracy theorising of one type or another seems pretty good.

      I’d wager good money that he does indeed know more than most of you, and at least he can string a coherent sentence together and not call people cunts when they get bested in argument.

      I wonder what qualifications you have Ruby since you’re so interested in John’s? What are your specialist subjects (HINT: using the word cunt excessively doesn’t count, ‘K?) .

      Why would anyone believe a single thing that comes out of your rather filthy mouth?

    425. Republicofscotland says:

      Meanwhile to counter Sweden and Finland officially joining Nato Russia has said it will put the cat among the pigeons if they do by putting hypersonic nukes in Kaliningrad, and who could blame them for doing so.

    426. Scott says:

      Some people really do consume too much lilac wine. It makes them see what they want to see, and be what they want the rest of us to be.

      Agenda of the WEF isn’t ‘conspiracy theory- the pejorative’, it’s a conspiracy to implement ‘same standards worldwide’ put into effect by the founder Klaus Schwab. A noble idea in the abstract perhaps, but any implementation is for the people to decide on, not just those pre-invited to design the changes. Democracy and all that, no?

      A conspiracy is merely a group of people creating a plan. The term has been hijacked to associate it only with criminality and/or delusion by the frightened and egotistical among us.

    427. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      As suspected the hard of thinking like Ruby fall for the “Ah, but the Republicans lost…” and / or “the Ukrainian nazis were on the other side…” etc. A Fascist victory in 1939 wasn’t pre-ordained, it was the result of a huge variety of factors

      It’s an historical fact the Republicans did lose and Franco was helped by the Nazis. Sure there were other factors and one of them probably was that there were a lot of fascist supporters in Spain and that seems to remain true even today.

      Andy Ellis says:
      People like Ruby are probably just too intellectually lazy to do the research about Ukrainian history

      Why on earth should I do research about Ukranian history?
      I don’t want to talk about Ukraine I want to talk about Scotland. You are so intent on proving that I am wrong, stupid, intellectually lazy, uneducated and all the rest you end up looking like a complete fool!

    428. Andy Ellis says:

      @Putin’s Poodle 9.00 pm

      “….unconfirmed is what caused the explosion,…”

      That seems rather….temporising in comparison with your usual brash assertions tovarich? I have my doubts you’d believe a hand delivered note from Vlad Putin himself that it woz the Ukrainians wot dun it. You’d still be shrieking in to the void that it blew up of its own accord, or NATO did it, or that the recent video of the ship listing badly before descending in to the depths was all CGI.

      You’re so transparent it’s almost as funny as all the fringe nutter sites you keep linking to as slam dunk evidence of your woo-woo.

    429. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 9.24 pm

      Aw, Rubes…you don’t need any help from me to prove yourself a fool. You do it effortlessly yourself.

    430. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      I wonder what qualifications you have Ruby since you’re so interested in John

      The difference between John Main and myself is that I am not here

      “only to correct errors of fact, or to point out when a post contains contradictory sections”

      I have no need to upload my CV.

      If I were looking for facts or decided to “do research about Ukranian history? I wouldn’t be relying on some anonymous poster on the internet. If I did that you would be quite entitled to call me stupid.

    431. Andy Ellis says:

      @Putin’s Poodle 9.19 pm

      “Meanwhile to counter Sweden and Finland officially joining Nato Russia has said it will put the cat among the pigeons if they do by putting hypersonic nukes in Kaliningrad, and who could blame them for doing so.”

      Why would it put the cat amongst the pigeons? Kaliningrad is surrounded by Poland and Lithuania. The only access the Russian now have is by sea, or a huge diversion by air over the Baltic to avoid all the EU airspace they’re banned from. Kaliningrad will be gradually throttled. Hypersonic nukes don’t need to be there given the speed they can travel, so it makes little odds.

      Finland and Sweden joining NATO is a huge coup and a huge strategic defeat for Putin. He knows it and so do his people as they gradually sink back in to being a second rate Cold War dystopia. Upper Volta with nukes, even if they are hypersonic…assuming Russia even holds together that long.

    432. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      18 April, 2022 at 9:35 pm

      @Putin’s Poodle 9.00 pm

      “….unconfirmed is what caused the explosion,…”

      That seems rather….temporising in comparison with your usual brash assertions tovarich? I have my doubts you’d believe a hand delivered note from Vlad Putin himself that it woz the Ukrainians wot dun it. You’d still be shrieking in to the void that it blew up of its own accord, or NATO did it, or that the recent video of the ship listing badly before descending in to the depths was all CGI.

      Corollary: Ellis wouldn’t believe a handwritten note delivered from Zelensky/NATO that it sank as claimed by Russia. He’d still be shrieking into the void…

      Even the BBC acknowledge that the cause of the sinking hasn’t been confirmed…just as they confirmed that the photo of the ‘ghost pilot in action’ was from 2015 and not the first few days of the conflict, and thus a pile of shite previously taken as gospel by idiots.

      This is ‘Wings Over Scotland’, a site dedicated to highlighting propaganda

    433. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      18 April, 2022 at 9:38 pm

      @Ruby 9.24 pm

      Aw, Rubes…you don’t need any help from me to prove yourself a fool. You do it effortlessly yourself.

      That’s your opinion. My question is why do you spend so much time addressing posts to me?

      Do you find it impossible to ignore me?

      What is your aim?

    434. Scott says:

      Ruby says:
      18 April, 2022 at 9:54 pm

      Andy Ellis says:
      18 April, 2022 at 9:38 pm

      That’s your opinion. My question is why do you spend so much time addressing posts to me?

      Do you find it impossible to ignore me?

      What is your aim?

      I think Ellis should write something about ‘Wings btl’ on his own blog, like he did re ‘C Brodie’, and open up replies.

      He’d get to see my surname via my email address (Rev Stu, one of his heroes, has this info)…and get his arse handed to him by someone who isn’t anonymous.

      But he won’t because he is a snivelling coward.

    435. Breeks says:


      James Che. says:
      18 April, 2022 at 7:35 pm
      Breeks

      Interesting analogy as to wether the Scottish parliament holds Sovereignty or not.

      And wether it can beclaimed msps would have sovereignty in future.
      Wether parliament or msps, the answer has to remain no…

      There’s a twist to that… we don’t necessarily have to get Holyrood recognised as a sovereign government, it will probably be enough to have it Internationally recognised that Westminster ISN’T sovereign. Even that’s probably enough that UK will struggle to function. That distinction alone in 2016 would have sunk Brexit.

      Second thing I’d say is this might be a process rather than an act. It might suit our ends for Scotland to adopt temporary or interim arrangements, which get us out the Union, but once Scotland is free, we can sort ourselves out with more permanent arrangements.

      By way of example, the People’s Parliament / Constitutional Convention could be a temporary one-trick-pony just created to re-assert Scottish Sovereignty and get us out the Union. (Ok, a two-trick-pony), but once that’s done, we can take our time modernising Scotland’s Constitution and system of Government. We only have to end the Union once, then we move on.

      Once it’s done the job it’s been designed to do, the political and Constitutional landscape will change dramatically, and maybe then we adapt the concept of temporary measure addressing a Constitutional crisis, to be something more settled and permanent like an upper house, or a senate, or something else completely. (NOT a House of Lords).

    436. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 11.22 pm

      Nothing stopping you identifying yourself here “Scott” or leaving a comment wherever you want. Is the fact you won’t because you’re still a snivelling anonymous coward?

      The idea that a creepy, stalker like you – who has spent months from behind his cosy blanket of anonymity obsessively stalking me – would be able to hand me or anyone else their own arse is for the birds.

      You’re right: Stu Campbell is something of a hero to me and many others in the movement. I wonder what he thinks about your creepy stalking behaviour given some of the experiences he’s had?

    437. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ruby 9.54 pm

      I refer you to the response of Mr Main @ 8.08 pm last night. Believe me when I say I find it very easy to ignore most of your output.

      Don’t flatter yourself that you’re impossible to ignore. Most of us thought your atavistic urge to call me a cunt all the time was just attention seeking in lieu of anything coherent to say most of the time.

    438. Ruby says:

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fpolitics%2F20073914.lost-female-voters-cost-indyref2%2F

      Lost female voters could cost indyref2

      All of those pushing for gender reform – including this newspaper – need to face up to the fact that in the highly unlikely event of there actually being an indyref next year, we will lose it as a direct result of the First Minister’s inexplicable obsession.

      You can have independence or you can have blokes in women’s toilets. The numbers make it startlingly plain that you can’t have both.

      I stronly believe this to be true.

      Time to make up your mind guys. Do you want to spend months arguing about Ukraine or are you interested in Scottish Independence.

      What you going to do spend your time researching the history of Ukraine or getting yourself informed about all the very serious implications of GRA & self-id?

      Lets start focusing on ‘Misogynistas’ and not ‘Putinistas’. Do you want us to lose IndyRef2 as a direct result of your inexplicable obsession with Putin?

      Probably not a good look to be attacking a woman constantly on this site for no apparent reason. There is no rule on this forum as to how intelligent/educated you have to be to post here. Keep in mind that even if someone can’t write they can make an X. If you don’t respect my sex you don’t get my X.

      Most definitely not a good idea to accuse women fighting for women’s rights as being anti-trans aka transphobic

    439. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      19 April, 2022 at 7:54 am

      @Ruby 9.54 pm

      I refer you to the response of Mr Main @ 8.08 pm last night. Believe me when I say I find it very easy to ignore most of your output.

      Don’t flatter yourself that you’re impossible to ignore. Most of us thought your atavistic urge to call me a cunt all the time was just attention seeking in lieu of anything coherent to say most of the time.

      You can refer me to posts by John Main until the cows come home but it’s a waste of your time as I said I have zero respect for John Main.

      Most of us thought your atavistic urge to call me a cunt all the time was just attention seeking in lieu of anything coherent to say most of the time.

      Most of you? Does that mean just you and John Main. Does Chas not agree?

      Is there something wrong with me expression the opinion that you are a cunt? Is that not allowed?

      Off you go now and prepare for another busy day having a pissing contest about Ukraine.

    440. Dan says:

      Sheesh, now I know I occasionally post a bit of off the wall stuff for the bantz. But even with my thicko moonhowling status I have the self awareness not to takeover btl commentary with repetitive name calling shite which I can’t help but notice does nowt to stimulate the wider readership into adding their input.
      How does reducing diversity of engagement and views on this site help Scotland return to a state of self governance.

      Here’s a subject I’d be interested in hearing a range of views on from folk that may actually have a clue about the relevant aspects it involves.
      Alf Baird certainly has knowledge on maritime matters, but I wonder if there’s any joined up thinking in the development of a future overall transport infrastructure plan. IE. How will port and shipping developments tie in with road and rail in terms of both goods and passenger transportation that would be required to support and make individual developments viable and efficient.

    441. Republicofscotland says:

      “Why would it put the cat amongst the pigeons? Kaliningrad is surrounded by Poland and Lithuania.”

      Agent Ellis.

      It makes a change from US nukes rolling up on Russia’s borders via US compliant countries that fear Russia, ironically they are making an enemy of themselves by joining Nato, a position that will be created by their own actions, Europe is lost to the Great Satan now, and no military action will be taken without US consent.

      You just have to look at how the US has sacrificed Ukraine to forward its own goals, Germans are prepared to crash their entire economy on the say so of the Great Satan, yes Europe is now a lost cause.

    442. Republicofscotland says:

      Pishy Pete Wishart will vote for Labour councillors before he’d vote an Alba one in. Pishy Pete describes Alba as.

      “fringe anti-SNP ‘Indy harming’ independence candidates from parties such as Alba.”

      The SNP are the party of anti-Scottish independence.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20076541.pete-wishart-snp-mp-breaks-party-vote-boak-advice%2F

    443. John Main says:

      Elections in a little over 2 weeks time.

      If people will stop posting lies on here, I, for one, won’t have to keep posting the corrections that some seem to find so threatening to their well-beloved fantasies.

      Simples.

    444. Republicofscotland says:

      Salmond launches campaign and Alba manifesto today from Dundee, Alba has around one-hundred candidates standing in council elections, I urge folk to vote for them.

      Salmond has said of the SNP.

      “Suggesting a vote for the SNP means only “stagnation”, he will also set out plan to address the cost-of-living crisis by doubling the winter fuel payment for pensions.

      The former First Minister will put independence at the forefront of his campaign, arguing an energy rich Scotland could cut household bills if it had the full powers to do so.”

      If you’re a woman it makes sense to vote for Alba to protect your rights.

      “He went on: “The sex-based rights of women and girls are under concerted and increasing attack. Our manifesto will set out Alba’s specific pledges on how we can make life better for all households and for every community.

      “However, the focus of this manifesto reflects three key themes: taking real action on independence as an urgent necessity; tackling the cost of living crisis; and standing up for women and girls.”

    445. Republicofscotland says:

      Meanwhile A&E figures are the worst on record under the SNP’s tenure, with a third waiting more than four hours to be seen.

    446. Ruby says:

      “A new care guide from Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals NHS Trust advises midwives to use ‘front hole’ or ‘genital opening’ rather than ‘vagina’, as that word might offend transgender activists

      “https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-10727051%2FMidwives-urged-avoid-using-proper-words-anatomy-avoid-upsetting-trans-patients.html

      I find ‘front hole’ highly offensive and makes me think of the expression
      ‘to get your hole’ which is also very offensive.

    447. Republicofscotland says:

      Well, well, well Sturgeon the betrayer won’t be happy at this.

      “Ian Blackford said the crisis does not mean work on preparing for another vote has to halt. (referring to the Ukraine conflict)

      It comes after Mr Blackford recently hinted at a possible delay to the indyref2 timetable.”

      Blackford admits that he knows Westminster will say no to an indyref.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scotsman.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fwar-in-ukraine-will-not-affect-snps-push-for-independence-says-ian-blackford-3618945

    448. Ebok says:

      sarah says: 18 April, 2022 at 9:56 am

      ‘leading to a good discussion’.

      Dan says: 19 April, 2022 at 9:33 am
      ‘But even with my thicko moonhowling status I have the self awareness not to takeover btl commentary with repetitive name calling shite’

      Sadly, good discussion is becoming a novelty on Wings, though there are occasional openings during rest or cease fire periods and before hostilities resume.
      Most folks would, I am guessing, see WoS in a better light if there were many more well-argued and varied contributions on Wings, rather than having oft repeated pointless barbs incessantly flying across these pages.

      It’s not as if there aren’t enough issues for folks to express views on, and perhaps we’d get many more views to add to the great range of thought-provoking pieces regularly submitted if welcoming the thoughts of less well-educated people – like me – without the danger of these views being dismissed if failing to meet a minimum academic standard or favouring a particular stance.

      I want to hear the opinions of people desperately struggling with bills, the McJobs, those struggling with addictions, with health problems, I want to hear what their priorities are and what they think of Indy/Alba or Indy/SNP.
      But it’s not likely to happen here and no surprise there’s not much good open discussion – with a RANGE of views – when taunts and ridicule are commonly the main purpose of follow-up comments.

    449. Breeks says:

      https://archive.ph/X5PDv

      With the onset of Spring, warmer weather and local elections, always remember to dress your carrots with a liberal amount of horseshit…


      “The white paper, which the above meetings reportedly discussed, should be published before the next vote, but no date has been set for publication…”

      Mmmm, next vote eh? … that means publication in the next 16 days… I can hardly wait.

      Yeah, I know, it’s all bullshit. But some poor sods are still suppin’ the Koolaid.

    450. Dan says:

      Whit’s this, nae input or even opinion cast on a future efficient joined up Scottish transport setup from those that are aw over btl telling most of us we are stupid and ken nowt aboot anything.
      What use is wittering on about a war in a foreign land we can do hee haw to stop, when we could be discussing stuff that we could be working towards implementing.
      I’d hoped aw these “superior” big brained fowk swaggering aboot this joint putting thickos like me in my place would be aw over this topic with their analysis and technical details on how we would proceed with a strategy that would improve the inter agency working and control of multiple aspects of oor infrastructure to move us towards a better system of operation.
      Ya ken, jist stuff like how increased goods transportation by train to ports of some of the commodities we export might work alongside existing and soon to be newly implemented passenger routes.
      What tracks and port areas would need upgrading to cope with the logistics of increased export / import. Obviously this would also mean further development of electrification of rail routes powered by aw that energy produced by the developing abundance of renewable power we huv tae as we are a modern environmentally considerate country. Whit leccy rolling stock would be the best to go for. Dual fuelled diesel / CNG as planned for those twa ferries’s engines probably isnae the smart choice…
      How the inter shipping / rail scheduling would work as the tides times constantly vary thus affecting some ships entering ports for loading / unloading due to water depth and vessel draft constraints. This would mean it may be difficult to follow and align with the 24 hour rush hour routine humans use thus adding complexity through variance in timetabling of railtrack use.

    451. James says:

      Dan,
      Cockenzie is the big opportunity? It already has a rail interface with the East Coast Main Line (I signalled hundreds of coal trains into the power station back in the day) we just need to build a superport (what are we waiting for?) and maybe a couple of miles or so of relief track from Prestonpans to Monktonhall junction.
      A passenger terminal & railway station inside the port for ferries/cruise ships would also be easily done…..

    452. Breeks says:

      Dan / James,

      Barrheadboy had a Prism show about Scotland’s Ports not that long ago, with a good contribution from Alf Baird that was quite an eye opener…

      https://www.barrheadboy.com/through-a-scottish-prism-20-02-22/

      I just hope that’s the right Prism I’ve linked to, but I think it is. And yeah, Cockenzie does feature as an option…

      It’s well worth a listen, but be warned, you might feel like throwing stuff before it’s finished.

    453. Republicofscotland says:

      The carrot is almost within reach, as Sturgeon the betrayer is said to have held top level meetings on independence with Angus Robertson and John Swinney, however they won’t say what they were taking about..hmmm.

      Between now and May 5th (council elections day) we’ll get every promise of an indyref from Sturgeon and her clique of no gooders.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20077431.indyref2-nicola-sturgeon-hosts-top-level-meetings-plan-white-paper%2F

    454. Breeks says:

      Bear with me fellas, I think that’s maybe the wrong prism…

    455. Breeks says:

      https://www.barrheadboy.com/through-a-scottish-prism-21-11-2021/

      That’s the one I meant…. Sorry. Can’t believe it was November last year.

    456. Ron Maclean says:

      ‘Through A Scottish Prism’ 3/04/22 has ship designer Stuart Ballantyne and Prof Alf Baird.

      Given continuing Scottish Government inaction Scotland’s transport problems can only get worse.

    457. Alf Baird says:

      James @ 2.56/Breeks @ 4.07

      Yes a pier system can be quickly developed at Cockenzie/Preston Links, where there was/is a pier for small tankers at the former power station site. All this needs is commitment from Scottish Government and East Lothian Council, who own the site. A good example of a similar pier is the modern ferry and cruise pier in Hatston Kirkwall (built 2003 and extended 2014) where I worked as Advisor to the Director of Harbours:
      https://canmore.org.uk/site/298032/kirkwall-hatston-vehicular-ferry-terminal?msclkid=bd4fbbfbbffa11ec82420c8d2f59519f

    458. Scott says:

      Dan says:

      Whit’s this, nae input or even opinion cast on a future efficient joined up Scottish transport setup from those that are aw over btl telling most of us we are stupid and ken nowt aboot anything…

      …How the inter shipping / rail scheduling would work as the tides times constantly vary thus affecting some ships entering ports for loading / unloading due to water depth and vessel draft constraints. This would mean it may be difficult to follow and align with the 24 hour rush hour routine humans use thus adding complexity through variance in timetabling of railtrack use.

      Time and tide wait for no man, as the saying goes.

      Scheduling trains is a skoosh in the modern era, compared to the days when pencil & paper were king.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFLb1IPlY_k – Numberphile – How to make railway timetables

    459. James Che. says:

      Ruby,
      Thank you for responding to the query i made, regarding applying logic and common sense and a inquisitive mind to every subject.
      Been busy with hospital so did not have time to get back to you earlier,

      Every now and you come up with a gem, like the trans issue logic.
      Praise where its due.

    460. twathater says:

      @ Dan 2.27pm when you look at the amount of juggernaut lorries on our streets and the damage they do to the roadways and the amount of fuel they consume it is breathtaking at the stupidity of a malign government , that Beeching the tory transport minister could even contemplate destroying our railways the way he did without considering the future benefits in transportation

      It amazes me that people think the tories are best for business when they constantly PROVE they are not

    461. Scott says:

      A Scottish seafood firm has gone out of business, citing Covid, Brexit and a decline in shellfish stocks as reasons for its closure. *my comment- ‘and holiday home owners’*

      The announcement was made by Isle of Mull-based The Ethical Shellfish Company in a newsletter to customers.

      It stated that the pandemic had “spelled the beginning of the end”, with lockdowns resulting in the loss of its restaurant market overnight…

      “More serious still, and as a direct consequence of Covid, was the loss of our boats, which we had to sell to keep us afloat during this period,” the company said.

      “We tried to find people to work for us on Mull but with nowhere to stay, it is nigh-on impossible to attract people to move there.

      “The scourge of second homes means that houses stand empty for months waiting to be populated by holiday makers in the summer.

      “It felt like the final insult when in the end we were asked to leave our business premises so that it could be turned into – you guessed it – yet another holiday home.”

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-61150022

      Covid: We could do nothing to prevent.

      Brexit: We tried to prevent only via the ballot box.

      Holiday homes: won’t be ‘prevented’, because hypocritical politicos need their ‘incommunicado villas’ in France etc

    462. Ruby says:

      Ebok says:

      It’s not as if there aren’t enough issues for folks to express views on, and perhaps we’d get many more views to add to the great range of thought-provoking pieces regularly submitted if welcoming the thoughts of less well-educated people – like me – without the danger of these views being dismissed if failing to meet a minimum academic standard or favouring a particular stance.

      I want to hear the opinions of people desperately struggling with bills, the McJobs, those struggling with addictions, with health problems, I want to hear what their priorities are and what they think of Indy/Alba or Indy/SNP.
      But it’s not likely to happen here and no surprise there’s not much good open discussion – with a RANGE of views – when taunts and ridicule are commonly the main purpose of follow-up comments.

      I totally agree with that. If I were moderator anyone telling another poster that they couldn’t string a sentence together would be banned immediately. I would be encouraging people not to bother with sentences just to write the way they speak and it’s OK if that includes a few swear words.

      Calling someone a ‘scheemie’ would also would also be a reason to be banned.

      Although you can tell a lot about a person who refers to someone as a ‘scheemie’ or who criticised their writing skills.

      I have a name for these people.

    463. Scott says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      19 April, 2022 at 3:50 pm

      The carrot is almost within reach.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20077431.indyref2-nicola-sturgeon-hosts-top-level-meetings-plan-white-paper%2F

      “If the people of Scotland choose independence, the full range of powers of an independent country would allow Scotland to put in place a transformational recovery from the pandemic, one which will lead to a fairer and more sustainable and prosperous nation.”

      Scotland can do this already and hand the bill to HM Treasury, but our gutless and incompetent leaders won’t.

      Advisory referendums can be ignored (See Scotland’s EUref 2016 and subsequent bluster from Blackford et al.)

      The quickest way to ‘choose independence’ is via the Court of Session, imho.

      ‘Holyrood’ is and always has been an administrative arm of UK Government – decisions are subject to challenge at UK Supreme Court (which has no authority over the Scots per “the Acts” of 1707/1706 – Lord Advocate of all hues blindly acquiesce to its so-called ‘supremacy’)

      WM desire for ‘a new Act of Union’ (one legal system for all?) is a sign of desperation as they know it’s the only way to bind Scotland to E+W+NI – any new act would need to repeal the 1707 act/Claim of Right Act 1689/et al. – and most likely extinguish Scots as an identity (genocide without murder).

      “The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever becoming one. Don’t vote it only encourages them” – Uncle Tam Connolly.

      A parliament convened using the ‘cited for jury duty’ method has always appealed to me – a permanently sitting legislature isn’t strictly necessary – it just leads to meaningless, costly nonsense like ‘Ten minute rule/Adjournment debates’

      Fuck pomp & ceremony, it doesn’t put food in the bellies of our children.

      Scotland and the Scots have the right to be fully independent; Competent governance is the aim; Changes to infrastructure will come sans interference from beyond the boundary of the kingdom of Scotland.

    464. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      19 April, 2022 at 2:27 pm

      Whit’s this, nae input or even opinion cast on a future efficient joined up Scottish transport setup from those that are aw over btl telling most of us we are stupid and ken nowt aboot anything.

      I’m one of the ‘stupidas’ I don’t know much about the transport setup outside Edinburgh but I do have a fair amount of experience with the Edinburgh’s transport set-up and it’s a bloody nightmare.

      I told you earlier in the month that everyday there were new transport hold-ups due to road works. Today it was Ferry Road.

      I was sitting in the traffic jam dreaming about these

      https://tinyurl.com/4w62kfcf

      https://tinyurl.com/2zfcx6h6

      I do fancy the ‘PalV Liberty’

    465. Scott says:

      Ruby says:
      19 April, 2022 at 7:48 pm

      I don’t know much about the transport setup outside Edinburgh but I do have a fair amount of experience with the Edinburgh’s transport set-up and it’s a bloody nightmare.

      Plus ça change: I was a resident from 87-95, and the summer months were torture for those travelling on the buses due to the volume of ‘festival related traffic’.

      The problem Scotland has with the quality of its roads is that the foundations are too shoogly, and the top layers aren’t deep enough, tending to be ‘repaired’ with ‘cosmetic top dressing’ ad infinitum – LGV movements aren’t the root cause of damage.

      I was resident in south of France in the earlyish ‘noughties’: Roadworks are generally completed quickly, because the workers work round the clock. https://www.autoroutes.fr/en/roadworks.htm

    466. Ron Maclean says:

      Calmac’s 29 year old ferry ‘Caledonian Isles’ has broken down and is off the Arran route until Friday. It is being replaced by a smaller ferry.

    467. Ron Maclean says:

      Looks like the 29 year old ‘Caledonian Isles’ is being replaced by the 38 year old ‘Isle of Arran’.

      Welcome to Scotland where the past is not another country.

    468. Ruby says:

      https://tinyurl.com/3b233jfd

      ‘Kara Dansky of the Women’s Human Rights Campaign’ tells us the word ‘transgender’ has no meaning.

      It’s no wonder I was confused about the meaning of transphobia.

      She also tells us that:
      ‘There is a Lawsuit pending that was filed by 20 states arguing that redefining sex to include the
      the nebulous nonsensical concept of ‘gender identity’ also constitutes sex discrimination’

      That is very interesting I wonder if Sturgeon, Slater & Harvie had heard about this?

      I haven’t really felt discriminated on the grounds of my sex up until now. Now I most certainly do.

      Good Luck to the Women’s Human Rights Campaign & the 20 states in America with this lawsuit.

    469. sarah says:

      @ Dan and others re transport overview: I am no expert on transport [or anything else!] but have opinions, of course.

      I see small ships at Inverness usually with a cargo of timber and there must be many many other ports all round Scotland’s very long coast. And Invergordon of course must be able to take very large ships. Rail is connected. So there is plenty of infrastructure for maritime trade.

      What is lacking is political nous. Independence would help too.

      The ferries in particular seems to have a brilliant and cheap solution put on a plate for the SNP government but they have passed on it several times. Tragic.

      I wouldn’t do too much more on roads as it is road traffic that damages the planet and our pockets. My focus would be railways, including light railways.

      There, Dan – that’s my tuppence worth!

    470. Scott says:

      Ruby says:
      19 April, 2022 at 8:33 pm

      https://tinyurl.com/3b233jfd

      ‘Kara Dansky of the Women’s Human Rights Campaign’ tells us the word ‘transgender’ has no meaning.

      It’s no wonder I was confused about the meaning of transphobia.

      She also tells us that:
      ‘There is a Lawsuit pending that was filed by 20 states arguing that redefining sex to include the
      the nebulous nonsensical concept of ‘gender identity’ also constitutes sex discrimination’

      That is very interesting I wonder if Sturgeon, Slater & Harvie had heard about this?

      I haven’t really felt discriminated on the grounds of my sex up until now. Now I most certainly do.

      Good Luck to the Women’s Human Rights Campaign & the 20 states in America with this lawsuit.

      Trans, transgender, transwoman, transman, non-binary: None are defined in legislation.

      GRA2004 refers to ‘transexuals – people with severe ‘gender dysphoria”

      EA2010 refers to the protected characteristic of ‘gender reassignment’

      Gender is referred to in legislation – the word ‘he’ is used as a generic term, but applies equally to those of the male and female genders. ie SEX = Gender.

      Sophists make, and wish for, bad law.

    471. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Scott (5.52) –

      Having worked on Mull fairly recently, can I testify that the emboldened passage in your comment is unsurprising.

      I have no knowledge of wealth distribution and/or land ownership, but I saw first-hand how difficult it was to find accommodation for workers. We were very fortunate to get the chance of a large caravan, warm and comfortable. But only affordable because at least three, sometimes four of us were splitting the off-season cost.

      The meagre shopping facilities mean that prices are very nearly double the mainland ‘Morrisons’, sometimes more. And if you happen to need to do some laundry, you’d better hope that the washer and drier at the Mull Aquarium is available, otherwise you’re scuppered. Our caravan site didn’t have any laundry facilities at all. A small box of washing powder was £4.80.

      Certain topics have been rendered tabboo through sheer political cowardice. It feels sometimes as if the folk who got into power by claiming to believe in something which they obviously do not, are actually laughing at us. They’re untouchable. They’ve become the bloated, self-satisfied, complacent, nasty pigs on Animal Farm. They’ve become the very same people who symbolise establishment. And they keep getting voted back in.

      If Alba doesn’t do well on May 5th, we’re fucked.

    472. Ruby says:

      Now that it has been confirmed that the term transgender has no meaning I’m wonder about the term ‘gender dysphoria’ is this another nebulous nonsensical term?

    473. Lochside says:

      Glad to see some native Scots coming back on here to discuss Scottish politics. The narcissists or more properly, the Britnat trolls, have almost smothered the discourse on here with their faux ‘arguments’ and foul abuse. Tag teams like the phony wrestling ‘contests’ have been sludging up what was once an honest forum for true Scottish Independinistas with repetitive garbage. All part of the plan to derail and deflect from what is really happening here and now in beleaguered Scotland.

      Energy prices, food prices, job losses and most of all complete petrification of the political system in the dead hands of the Betrayer and her portly wee Svengali have left Scotland at the mercy of a criminal gang at Westminster.

      When we should be trying to organise and create a mass movement again based on the ‘YES’ one of 2014, we sit looking at the fragmented and disjointed pieces rent asunder by the GRA and Hate legislation deliberately engineered to achieve this outcome by the Sturgeon Narcissist Project (S.N.P.).The glove puppet being worked from behind the Westminster curtain with beguiling promises/threats of virtue signalling glory.

      It has been said many times: how would you destroy the Yes movement at the moment of almost ‘looking over the mountain to the promised land’? First unplug and destroy the data base that linked the whole movement together ( Any suggestions who actually did this?); then promise another Indy Ref ad nauseum, whilst attacking and trying to bankrupt or even better, imprison every legitimate prominent active Scottish Nationalist and replace them with the fragrant pink hegemony of MI5 plants of Daddy Bear/Stewart Macdonald/Mairhi Black (Jacob Rees’ close pal) etc. etc. all ‘working hard with their chums'(copyright the arched eyebrow) to keep the despised punters mesmerised with Sturgeon’s dying swan act (ref. the ‘dirty spoon’ sketch in Monty Python).

      It’s time for AUOB to start marching to Bute House and Holyrood to call out the real enemies: those who have lied about our Sovereign right to dissolve this oppressive Union. A criminal fraud has been perpetrated by this host of mealy mouthed hoaxers on our population. They have knowingly colluded to keep us subjugated and robbed of our Sovereign rights to rid ourselves of England’s oppressive rule over us. It’s time to call them out.

    474. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ruby (9.23) –

      Interesting.

      I was composing a letter to my MP via writetothem and I reworded it a few times, then just scrapped it.

      Writing to your MP to ask her what her definition of a woman is. FFS…this is where we are.

      Nah, it’s all become a bit too Spike Milligan now.

      🙁

    475. Tinto Chiel says:

      @ Twathater 5.47: you’re quite right the Tories don’t care about business but the real villain of the piece wasn’t Beeching, who just produced the report on potential rail closures, but Ernest Marple, the Transport minister, who was in the pockets of the road transport lobby and who had to flee the country eventually because of his corrupt business practices.

      @Ian B 9.14: hell, yeah!

    476. Tinto Chiel says:

      Marples, shouldabeen!

    477. Scott says:

      an Brotherhood says:
      19 April, 2022 at 9:14 pm

      @Scott (5.52) –

      Having worked on Mull fairly recently, can I testify that the emboldened passage in your comment is unsurprising.

      Certain topics have been rendered tabboo through sheer political cowardice. It feels sometimes as if the folk who got into power by claiming to believe in something which they obviously do not, are actually laughing at us. They’re untouchable. They’ve become the bloated, self-satisfied, complacent, nasty pigs on Animal Farm. They’ve become the very same people who symbolise establishment. And they keep getting voted back in.

      If Alba doesn’t do well on May 5th, we’re fucked.

      ‘The working class can kiss my ass, I’ve got the foreman’s job at last; Though cowards flinch and tractors sneer, we’ll keep the gravy train running here’ – SNP’s white flag song?

      In Glasgow, Alba are standing 14 candidates in 23 wards – none in Hairymill, so this will be the first election of any form that I haven’t cast my vote in – I’m boaking, not voting.

      I personally don’t think 5th May will kill off Alba, but if it does, it won’t prevent ‘independence’ from being an achievable aim – I’m certainly never going to wheesht about it.

    478. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Ooooh, this looks *very* cosy, doesn’t it?

      And the comments are well worth a read…

      First Minister
      @ScotGovFM
      First Minister
      @NicolaSturgeon
      and
      @CityLordMayor
      , met with future finance leaders and reiterated the importance of Scotland and London working in close partnership towards shared goals, including social mobility, in order to nurture innovation.

      https://twitter.com/ScotGovFM/status/1516471366932910082

    479. Scott says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      19 April, 2022 at 9:48 pm

      Ooooh, this looks *very* cosy, doesn’t it?

      Lord Mayor of the ‘City of London’ has much more influence than Scotland or any of its elected reps, both here and at WM. City Remembrancer sits in Commons representing it and only it.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Remembrancer#Remembrancer's_role_and_department

      She’s a fucking lunatic, and can sue me for saying so.

    480. Scott says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      19 April, 2022 at 9:48 pm

      Ooooh, this looks *very* cosy, doesn’t it?

      Lord Mayor of the ‘City of London’ has much more influence than Scotland or any of its elected reps. City Remembrancer sits in Commons representing it and only it.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Remembrancer#Remembrancer's_role_and_department

      She’s a fucking lunatic, and can sue me for saying so.

    481. Scott says:

      Yeah, no idea why that comment went through twice, there was no ‘looks like you’ve already said that’…must just be a *coughs* glitch in ‘the matrix’

    482. Bob Mack says:

      It’s been a lot of effort from al! of us to keep standing in the same place ,hasn,t it?

      I can’t actually remember when Independence was a topic of conversation with everyone I met. Possibly due to Covid, but more likely apathy and growing indifference. Pity!

    483. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      19 April, 2022 at 9:34 pm

      @Ruby (9.23) –

      Interesting.

      I was composing a letter to my MP via writetothem and I reworded it a few times, then just scrapped it.

      Writing to your MP to ask her what her definition of a woman is. FFS…this is where we are.

      Nah, it’s all become a bit too Spike Milligan now.

      Ian, there might be something on this blog that could help you find out what a woman is.

      https://www.the11thhourblog.com/archives

      If you just click on the donation request it will go away.
      The articles look very interesting. I haven’t read any yet but it’s on my list of things to do.

      I know what a woman is cos I’ve been a woman all my life but still I want to hear how politicians answer the question.

      What I really do need to answer to is what is a transwoman.

      Apparently gender dysphoria is a very series condition, can lead to depression, suicide & self-harm but doesn’t need any medical diagnosis you just self-diagnose which I find highly suspect.

      Talking about it is not advised as the person might try to convince you do not have gender dysphoria & that you are not trans.

      I don’t think you need to have gender dysphoria to be trans. If you did you could just self-diagnose.

      How the hell would anyone know if you were lying especially if you were wearing a dress and a wig.

    484. Ruby says:

      Ooops sorry

      If you just click on the page the donation request it will go away.

    485. Mark Boyle says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      19 April, 2022 at 9:14 pm

      If Alba doesn’t do well on May 5th, we’re fucked.

      Alba are only standing in less than 10% of the seats, so even if they won every seat they stood in it wouldn’t matter.

      The real battle is yet to come – when Sturgeon’s trans insanity comes back to bite her in the arse with the general public, and the scales fall off their eyes about all the other issues (the ferries, the potholed roads, the hospitals, the schools) they pretend to care about but in reality don’t unless its in their own backyard and are using at that moment in time.

    486. twathater says:

      @ Tinto Chiel 9.39pm thanks for that info re Marples , how nane o these peeple can predict the future shows the lack of intelligence or interest on their part , and yet we still elect them today

    487. Robert Hughes says:

      ” First Minister of Scotland,
      @theSNP
      Leader and MSP for Glasgow Southside. Loves?. All tweets promoted by
      @NicolaSturgeon
      3 Jacksons Entry EH8 8PJ ”

      ” Jackson’s Entry ” . Is that * Front hole * or * Back Hole * ?

      When you hear gibberish New Prog Speak like ” Nurture Innovation ” ( How , by * chest-feeding * engineers the milk of human weirdness ? ) the questions go a-begging , not only ” what is a woman ? ” , also ” what is a ferry ? ”

      London Calling . NSNP answering . Scotland drowning .

      Neither Washington , London , Moscow , Beijing or ( HA ! ) Edinburgh

      Get them aw tae fuck

    488. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/ZO0BD

      Outgoing investment bank chief Eilidh Mactaggart ‘paid off with six months of her salary’

      Scottish LibDems economy spokesperson, Willie Rennie, said: “There is undoubtedly more to this situation than ministers have been prepared to let on.

      No shit, Sherlock

    489. Ruby says:

      Scott says:
      19 April, 2022 at 8:04 pm

      Plus ça change: I was a resident from 87-95, and the summer months were torture for those travelling on the buses due to the volume of ‘festival related traffic’.

      The problem Scotland has with the quality of its roads is that the foundations are too shoogly, and the top layers aren’t deep enough, tending to be ‘repaired’ with ‘cosmetic top dressing’ ad infinitum – LGV movements aren’t the root cause of damage.

      I was resident in south of France in the earlyish ‘noughties’: Roadworks are generally completed quickly, because the workers work round the clock. https://www.autoroutes.fr/en/roadworks.htm

      What is happening now doesn’t compare to any disruption caused by festival traffic. This is massive.

      North Bridge being repaired. Only one way traffic. This is due to last for a year. Then other side will be closed for a year.

      The whole of the centre of Leith Walk being dug up for trams. Very slow traffic in narrow lane with no possibility of crossing from one side of Leith Walk to the other.

      Cowgate only one way. That has been going on for a year.

      High Street been closed for a year.

      Top end of Canongate closed roadworks on Holyrood end.
      St Mary’s Street junction half closed with temp traffic lights.

      Lane closures on Morrison Street. Looks like a long term thing.

      That is just the ones I know of.

      All the roads look like the surface of the moon. Huge potholes everywhere.

      With all these long term road closures any emergency repairs (ie potholes) causes absolute chaos.

      With all that going on the council think it’s a good idea to close Holyrood Park on Saturdays as well as Sundays.
      Then there’s the taxi scheme laid on by the council for residents who cant get buses due to road closures. That’s a story for another day.

      I was resident in south of France in the earlyish ‘noughties’: Roadworks are generally completed quickly, because the workers work round the clock. https://www.autoroutes.fr/en/roadworks.htm

      Snap! me too. One thing I did find about the French was they were more demanding than we are. We seem to be more accepting of things. Perhaps what we need is a revolution.

      Allons enfants de la Patrie,
      Le jour de gloire est arrivé !

      I do however have memories of huge traffic jams on the coast roads. At that time I had a bike and enjoyed being able to go faster than all the billionaires in their fancy cars. They have many more festivals than we do for example The Bridge Festival, Jazz Festival, Chanson de la Rose d’or, Monte Carlo Grand Prix, Cannes Film Festival, loads of Conferences.

    490. Breeks says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      19 April, 2022 at 9:14 pm

      If Alba doesn’t do well on May 5th, we’re fucked.

      I’ve got a slightly different perspective. We already are fucked, and have been royally fucked since Sturgeon took over the SNP. I see ALBA as the only bright light in a gloomy and bleak horizon, the only realistic thing in sight which might stand a chance of un-fucking us.

      But curb your expectations. There aren’t enough ALBA Candidates to really shake up the snow globe in May, but yes I agree, ALBA needs to start registering on the dial. What else is there if ALBA flounders?

      The BIG difference, and why we should keep the faith with ALBA whatever happens, is the Constitutional option, currently being pushed by the Scottish Sovereignty Research Group.

      I hope, spirit, body and soul that ALBA does well, because it will establish ALBA’s voice to a wider audience, because when that voice is talking, it will (I hope) be putting forward the more radical Constitutional arguments which will actually deliver Independence, (and coincidentally, might rid us of Sturgeon’s feckless mismanagement as “leader”).

      I see Daddy Smith is in the National gaslighting about recruiting disgruntled Tories over to YES. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and Sturgeon could very well be shoring up support by recruiting support from Tories, but only because they know the Union is safe while Sturgeon the Betrayer is calling the shots.

      Scotland badly needs the work of the SSRG to be put centre stage. If that falters, then we really are in trouble.

      Scotland’s Sovereignty is THE key to Independence, it always has been, always, always, always, but ALBA is the only political party apparently listening. Trust me, I’ve been plucking this harp since before 2014, but there’s usually nobody listening. AlBA means hope, but it’s a delicate thing.

      I believe ALBA is currently in “build it, and they will come” mode. The Constitutional route is a credible and reasonably short way to secure Scottish Independence, and once the population knows that, (coz right now the vast majority don’t know it), then we will see who is with us. I think that’s where YES support will be most potent, – a binary choice with no political tribalism screwing it up.

      In truth, I think the only thing that is really fucked going forward, is Sturgeon and her troughing SNP sycophants. I’m not just saying that. The truth will out, and the deception will not fare well for them once understood.

      But we also need to keep ALBA focused. Democrats are fickle types, because 90% of them will merrily trade obdurate sovereign principle for a fleeting majority. ALBA will be susceptible to the same temptations. Perhaps we’ve already seen it at Conference… perhaps…

    491. Ruby says:

      Robert Hughes says:

      ” Jackson’s Entry ” . Is that * Front hole * or * Back Hole *

      SNP on one side of Jackson’s Entry (locally known as Jacksie’s Entry) and BBC on the other I think the answer is ‘back hole’

      FYI the politically correct term is ‘bumhole’

      We all know what comes out of the bumhole.

    492. Tommo says:

      I ask this in a genuine spirit of enquiry though I am for the Union
      I gather Ms Sturgeon held a ‘Top Level’ meeting with Civil Servants to discuss a ‘New prospectus for independence’ and ‘which topics to include’ (Or, I suspect more likely, which to keep schtum about )- ref The Scotsman today
      Leaving out the issue of why-in a party dating back 70 years-there isn’t already a ‘detailed prospectus’ for independence I wonder whether the Civil Servants are British or Scottish Civil Servants ? If the former then why are they involving themselves in what is clearly a purely party political matter ?

    493. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks (8.15) –

      You sound pretty upbeat, and I’m envious! Long time since I felt that way about it all.

      When WOS was going full tilt, before previous important elections, we’d already have a rough idea of what targets might be reasonable. But this time? I have no idea what might constitute a genuine advance.

      I suppose we’ll just have to wait and see.

      😉

    494. Breeks says:

      Tommo says:
      20 April, 2022 at 10:10 am

      Leaving out the issue of why-in a party dating back 70 years-there isn’t already a ‘detailed prospectus’ for independence I wonder whether the Civil Servants are British or Scottish Civil Servants ?

      Scottish is British Tommo. A bit pedantic I grant you, but Great Britain is the biggest island in the British Archipelago, thus both Scotland and England are both British, whether united or independent. Like it or not, an Indy Scotland will still be British, (though probably won’t be crowing about it).

      As for what Sturgeon does in cahoots with the Civil Service is completely unfathomable to most folks here. Nip over to Wee Ginger Dug and ask the Sturgeon faithful what she’s planning. Unless it’s her resignation, I really couldn’t care less.

      The whole Scotland Act / Devolution settlement is exposed as a total pig in a poke, and personally, I believe Independence will be realised using a different route entirely. If Sturgeon’s constitutional incompetence blocks off one road, we’ll just use another.

    495. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      You got the boomer age group wrong.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers

    496. Effigy says:

      Drives me insane.
      Others are stating he was at parties, there are pictures of him at parties, several have resigned for being at the same party and he is responsible for knowing what is happening at No 10 parties as he has a Secretary to advise him of anything due to go on there on a daily basis.
      We have now established that this government can lie, cheat and act in their own best over the country’s interest and none of the opposition parties or the public can do anything about it.

      Please let the immoral pathological liar, bullying womaniser devoid of morality lead the nation in a time of crisis. What could you put in place that might be better?

    497. sarah says:

      @ Tommo: there is no Scottish civil service. All advice from the civil service to Scotgove is from UK civil servants i.e. England’s so the “advice” to Scot Gov does NOT have Scotland’s welfare at heart. Hence the intra-island ferries advice, the closure of Rosyth ferry route so all exports have to go via English ports, the power lines and oil pipelines taking Scotland’s assets down to England for them to process etc etc etc.

      @ Breeks re optimism about Alba: same here [and hope it isn’t because I am a prisoner of hope as Desmond Tutu said he was!]. I know it is “only” council elections BUT it has already gained Alba a PPB and with councillors it gives the party legitimacy in the eyes of broadcasters so less easy to overlook Alba. It gives councillors the way to contact the public and spread the ideas on all topics including the constitutional Convention.

    498. robbo says:

      I see she’s oan “loose wimin” the day.

      Ask her wit a wumin is please!



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


    • About

      Wings Over Scotland is a (mainly) Scottish political media digest and monitor, which also offers its own commentary. (More)

      Stats: 5,950 Posts, 1,092,626 Comments

    • Recent Posts

    • Archives

    • Categories

    • Tags