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Political Jargon For Dummies

Posted on July 01, 2019 by

Prospective new Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson was interviewed on Sky News this morning, where she made the usual honking mess of the admittedly-impossible task that is trying to justify her party’s naked hypocrisy over second referendums.

Swinson indignantly insisted that “the SNP do not have a mandate for [a second indyref]”, a statement which we of course already know is unambiguously false.

The SNP campaigned in 2016 on an explicit pledge to have a new vote if Scotland was dragged out of the EU despite voting to Remain, and they won the election and formed the government, having secured more MSPs than Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems put together (63-60).

They then put their manifesto pledge to the Parliament, which voted for it by a clear majority of 54% to 46% (almost exactly the reverse of the 2014 referendum, routinely described by Unionists as an “overwhelming” majority).

Finally they campaigned on the same pledge in the 2017 UK general election, where they again won more seats than the three Unionist parties combined (35-24).

So that’s a pretty clear triple democratic and political mandate in any parliamentary democracy: a majority of MSPs, a majority of Scottish MPs and a majority of the Scottish Parliament. But since Jo Swinson doesn’t seem to recognise it, we wondered if she maybe just didn’t know what the word meant.

Seems clear enough. So we thought we’d come at it from the other angle and see what sort of mandate the Lib Dems had to demand a second EU referendum. And, well, it’s rather less solid.

The 2017 UK general election was conducted almost a year after the Brexit vote, and represented an ideal opportunity for the British public to change its mind about its decision to leave. The Lib Dem manifesto was unequivocal:

It expressly promised a second referendum between leaving (on the negotiated deal) and remaining, with the party advocating the latter even before knowing what the deal was. With both the Tories and Labour campaigning on manifestos pledging to carry out Brexit without a second vote, the Lib Dems had the Remain vote (in England, at any rate) all to themselves.

So how did that work out?

Oh. With 48% of the electorate to aim at and no competition outside of Scotland for Remainers, the Lib Dem vote and vote share nevertheless both went DOWN in 2017 – incredibly, even compared to their absolutely disastrous mauling in 2015 – and while the vagaries of the UK electoral system actually gave them slightly more seats, they still secured just a pitiful 1.8% of the Westminster benches (compared to the 59% of Scottish seats the SNP won).

The Lib Dems don’t run in Northern Ireland (where the pro-Brexit DUP won more votes and more seats than the anti-Brexit Sinn Fein, and the DUP’s vote increased by more) and have never had a significant presence in Wales, although they still managed to lose almost a third of their vote in the latter, dropping to a dismal 4.5% and 0 seats.

Ironically, then, the only part of the UK where any sort of electoral mandate exists for a second EU referendum is Scotland – where a far stronger one also exists for a second indyref, which makes life very awkward indeed for the Lib Dems demanding one but not the other.

Even this year’s European elections, widely touted as a triumph, brought the Lib Dems less than 20% of the vote, and all anti-Brexit parties combined barely 40% – no mandate for anything in an election where hardline pro-Brexit parties (even if you exclude Labour) got 44%.

Jo Swinson, then, is in absolutely no position to lecture anyone else about a lack of mandate. The best performance her party has recorded since the indyref is HALF of the SNP’s worst vote share in the same period, and at no point have Remain parties ever won more votes or seats in a UK election than Brexit parties. While the SNP have a demonstrable triple mandate to wield, Swinson has literally nothing.

We keenly await her next attempt to explain that away.

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    90 to “Political Jargon For Dummies”

    1. Den Cairns says:

      Av got more time fur wee daft Wullie than that fork tongued snake.

    2. Proud Cybernat says:

      “But… but… the 2016 EU Ref voter info was only written on the side of a bus while the 2014 IndyRef had a 600+ page document to informa voters. People were properly informed in 2014 but not in 2016 which is why we must re-run EURef.”

      Is her pitch. Or words to that effect.

    3. Merkin Scot says:

      Saint Jo, Saviour of the Lib Dems, was closely involved when Vinnie ‘lost’ half a billion on the Post Office.
      Perhaps she can tell us about the dark money her campaign used?

    4. LesRoches says:

      Like a fool I thought that no liberal could screw things up more than Rennie or Carliar, but then the new kid on the block opens her gub. Red,blue,yellow or change tory they are all the same and would gladly phone LBC and beg on their knees to stay in the union. Oh ma sides.

    5. Dr Jim says:

      Do Liberal Democrats not just dress up as each other and run around pretending there’s more of themselves

      Who and what kind of person grows up dreaming of being a Liberal Democrat MP when all you can hope for is that somebody other party does well and might pick you as the biscuit fetcher

      I mean *Go home to your constituencies and prepare for coalition* doesn’t have that confident ring about it does it

    6. Spikethedee says:

      Any particular reason (other than either ineptitude or ignorance) that the Sky News interviewer couldn’t put any of these points to her??

      I don’t think it’s too unreasonable to expect an interviewer to have a handle on this type of thing…

    7. Scozzie says:

      Jo Swinson is a total muppet – I’ve got nothing more to add to the matter…oh wait I do – carpetbagger, liar, amateur, orange tory, out her depth in a puddle!

    8. Capella says:

      Complete failure of the Sky news presenter to challenge her blatant lies. Nil points.

    9. Ian D says:

      This is politics, and if Trump has demonstrated anything its that truth is a very slippery concept. With four UK political parties trumpeting no indeyref mandate and one saying the opposite then the four get the brain space of the electorate. The truth matters little in such circumstances, the requirement now is to get more attention than the other four. That needs sharp elbows and a bull headed approach. The independantistas are a little too meek, they need to hit the four where it hurts and get hold of the narrative.

    10. Can you imagine Jo Swanson being interviewed by Robin Day, she would be greetin within 5 mins.

    11. galamcennalath says:

      There’s a widespread pattern – interviewers don’t challenge BritNat politicians as much as they should. They let their bullshit assertions, magical mystery policies, and downright lies go without stopping them and demanding evidence or justification.

      Now, we know the same interviewers are capable of badgering politicians when it suits them. Look at the interview style most SNP folk are subjected to!

      Swinson would crumble in some of the interviews SG minsters have to endure and successfully handle.

      Obviously it all goes beyond Scottish politics. At a UK level absolute nonsense is allowed to stand – look no further than the current utterances of Johnson and Hunt. The rest of the world sees a Punch and Judy show between hollow glove muppets – the UK media portrays it as meaningful political debate.

    12. Scotspatriot says:

      The definition of a Libdemer .
      A Conservative who hasn’t had their House broken into !!

    13. geeo says:

      As i posted on previous topic.

      Swinson v Davey on Sky News.

      Deary me, predictably dumb.

      Sky doing questions from the public, and before they answer, i told my wife what they are about to answer with.

      Right every time so far.

      Apparently, Scots cannot get a 2nd referendum is because they voted on a 600 page white paper and rejected it, and there was no white paper for brexit!!

      Jo Swinson at her thick as pigsh*t best.

      No appetite, Scots want to be in the uk and EU and that is the libdem position.

      Makes one wonder why we do not VOTE for this party we apparently all agree with !

      Actually spitting with venom at the very mention of the SNP. Ed Davey talking equal pish about it, but without the venom in his tone.

      Whats worse than a Britnat ?

      A Scottish Britnat.

      They change completely when the words, Scotland/SNP/INDEPENDENCE are mentioned.

      Swinson was all soft spoken and reasonable until indyref/SNP were mentioned, then it was swivel eyed hatred, drooling from the mooth, gutteral WWWRRRAAAAGGGHHHH until they changed the subject.

      And no wonder, No Union = Jo Swinson is no longer an MP never mind Lib dem leader.

      Its not about indyref for unionist party politicians in Scotland, its about self preservation.

      As currently constituted (lib/lab/tories in Scotland), not a single unionist party politician has the right to operate as part of an indy Scotland, for any of those 3 parties.

      That includes 0/59 of current Scottish MP’s allowed to sit in WM.

      35 MP’s are trying to make themselves unemployed for the Scottish greater good.

      24 are trying to keep their jobs, at the expense of the welfare of Scots people.

      It realmy is that straightforward.

    14. geeo says:

      Realmy ??? (Really)ffs

    15. Jack Murphy says:

      Spikethedee asked at 3:42 pm
      “Any particular reason (other than either ineptitude or ignorance) that the Sky News interviewer couldn’t put any of these points to her??”

      I’m sure that other Ministry of Truth, BBC’s Reporting Scotland would have.

    16. cyril mitchell says:

      great article.Wish could post link around but Twitter has suspended my account for 2 weeks now.Beginning to think some users uncomfortable witheth views they disagree with are successful in removing platform of others

    17. Welsh Sion says:

      Lib Dem = Fib Dumb

    18. Greannach says:

      Poor Swinson seems to be using Dugdale and Davidson as role models. Mistake.

    19. Dr Jim says:

      It’s kind of ironic that the best one the Lib Dems had in Holyrood, Tavish Scott has decided he’s had enough of being made to look a ninny amongst even worse ninnies and buggered off to do something entirely different

    20. Craig P says:

      Winning With Jo.

    21. DerekM says:

      What did you not know Jo is the new MSM unionist mouth piece totally muscled in on wee Ruth`s day job and vying for the big chair at the top of the better together for my ermine club.

    22. geeo says:

      Who will win the Lib Dem gig ?

      Jo Swinson, Scottish MP ?

      SIR Ed Davey, NOT Scottish MP ?

      It’s a toughie huh !

    23. geeo says:

      Oops, forgot option 3.

      3. Who actually gives a (bleep) ?

    24. Doug says:

      British nationalists like Swinson are lying scum. British nationalist “journalists” are just the same.

      Thank god for the Rev.

    25. Chris Downie says:

      For what it’s worth, I’ve argued that a day of reckoning has been looming for that party ever since the EU referendum. Why? Because they have long since painted themselves as the most Europhile of all the mainstream political parties. They always indicated that, come rain or shine, they were firmly behind the European project, federalism and all its bells and whistles.

      Since then, they’ve tried to campaign (unchallenged by the compliant media, of course) to “keep Scotland in both unions”, when in fact the reality is that they will inevitably have to choose which of the two unions they like best.

      When that day of reckoning comes, if/when they refuse to back independence in Europe, their Europhile credentials will have been exposed as half-hearted at best, and at worst, they will be exposed as Poundshop Tories.

    26. galamcennalath says:

      Who had/has greatest potential to damage the Indy cause – Dugdale, Davidson, or Swinson?

      Dugdale’s been and gone. She never made it as the BritNat golden girl.

      Davidson, the one trick cuddie, did become the focus of MSM’s anti Indy. Past here peak which was doing modestly with her No Surrender campaign. She is also yesterday’s union fodder.

      Leaves Swindon. The BritNat’s need someone to promote. She’s probably the best they’ve got now. I see some damage because the biggest pool of potential new Yes voters are Remainers. And unfortunately LibDemers also target that group.

      We’ll see.

    27. Robert Peffers says:

      @DerekM says: 1 July, 2019 at 4:36 pm:

      … What did you not know Jo is the new MSM unionist mouth piece totally muscled in on wee Ruth`s day job and vying for the big chair at the top of the better together for my ermine club.”

      Big, big mistake for these would be skunk tipped, rob wearing numpties to make, DerekM.

      Shortly after the union ends all Scottish members of the Lords will be joining their Commons pals from Scottish constituencies and unionist Holyrood MSPs on the dole queue.

      Why would the Parliament of England want to keep the Scottish lords and MPs and why would the Scottish parliament want to keep Westminster party politicians?

    28. Shug says:

      Unionist can lie to their hearts content firm in the knowledge the bbc will nevwr any anti scottish or snp statement
      God bless the bbc
      They are such a bunch of amatures these days

    29. CameronB Brodie says:

      Time and events tend to conspire against the ideological (see British nationalism), which requires the ideologue to twist logic beyond the point of practical reason (see Hotdogstand et al). Subsequently, British nationalism should be viewed as a harmful social pathology and British nationalists should be treated as victims of social harm. Only those who’s political AGENCY brings them financial benefit from British nationalism, are wanks (see Jo Swinson).

      2. Social Pathologies, Reflexive Pathologies, and the
      Idea of Higher-Order Disorders
      :
      https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Arto_Laitinen/publication/305017110_Social_Pathologies_Reflexive_Pathologies_and_the_Idea_of_Higher-Order_Disorders/links/5a995ecea6fdcc3cbac8fa1f/Social-Pathologies-Reflexive-Pathologies-and-the-Idea-of-Higher-Order-Disorders.pdf?origin=publication_detail

    30. John Walsh says:

      We have to play by the rules. Which rules? The ones the WM party machine, the English establishment and MSM. Decide to be playing with on any given subject on any given day.

      Terms and conditions may vary according to the subject matter and if the “Jocks” “Irish” “Welsh” or Johnny Foreigner are involved .

      Then there is “El costumbre del Pueblo”, or “How we do things here”.

    31. Shug says:

      Just reading laim fox on news so bit of topic
      When trump is looking for votes do you think he will use brexit to force irish ref on reunion to pocket irish votes inthe us

    32. Sharny Dubs says:

      It’s like watching panto only it’s not the festive season. What have Brit politics become….

      Ohhh yes he did…

      Ohhh no he didn’t….

      Look behind you!!!

      Did you see the man with the black hat and the black moustache children?

      Jessus wept

    33. Does she actually live Up Here?
      She lied, live on TV, but gets away with it because this is the Universal Big Lie to which the Brit Nats, politicians, broadcasters, Dead Tree Scrolls, Big Business and the Ruling Classes have signed off on.

      The Universal Lie trotted out by them all from Brewer to Boris is that there is no mandate for another Scottish Referendum, which loosely translated means:-

      ‘We own you. You are a militarily occupied colony of England. You do not really have a vote. We outnumber you. We steal your wealth and resources with impunity because we can.
      We have established military bases all over your wee chunk of rock North of Mighty England, and will brook no argument . We are your masters and you are our slaves, and your fellow Scots citizens who work tirelessly on our behalf, will hold you in check, and let London know from time to time when they need help financially, militarily, or through the media to quell their fellow rebellious Scots.
      ‘Now is not the time’, means ‘never’.
      You have as much say in your future as a cow at an abattoir.
      England Rules, Scotland bows down in subservience while truck loads of lovely plundered booty speed South every day of the year.’
      Not any longer.
      We’ve had more than enough of serfdom thank you very much.

    34. geeo says:

      galamcennalath@ 4:53 pm

      Is that the lib dems who are the 5TH ‘biggest’ (last) sized party in Scotland at Holyrood and least popular represented ‘Scottish’ party (accounting unit) at WM ?

      Not much to fear there, I would venture.

    35. Republicofscotland says:

      We’ve long since past the post truth era of politics. Now politicians can, and do say absolutely anything no matter how untrue it is, and the media, if it suits whatever agenda is in play at the time, will not hold them to account.

      Unless of course its in Scotland where the SNP government are held to account on every little detail by the unionist media and branch office lackey MSP’s.

    36. galamcennalath says:

      geeo says:

      Not much to fear there, I would venture.

      One the face of it that would seem correct. That however wouldn’t stop the MSM weaving all sorts of bullshit around Swinson. Clearly, there are some very gullible BritNat voters out there.

      The Union will fail, Indy is coming. The BritNats won’t go down without trying to stop that. They don’t have much going for them. They will grasp at any and every straw.

    37. CameronB Brodie says:

      More on the forces that have shaped Britain, such as the colonial nature of Scotland’s ‘modernisation’ (see the clearances).

      Dilemmas of Over-Development: Scottish Nationalism
      and the Future of the Union

      At the height of the crisis of the 1970s Tom Nairn published his collection of essays The Break-Up of Britain, which soon became a key intellectual reference point for the Scottish and British left. Post-Brexit, could those same trends that Nairn predicted would lead to the break-up of Britain be returning? In this article, Scott Lavery asks what Nairn can teach us today.

      ….Nairn places the Scottish national question within a wider theory of nationalism and uneven development. Modern nationalism emerged during the great upheavals of the 19th Century following the shockwaves unleashed across the continent by the French and industrial revolutions. In this context, an emergent class of commercial interests, urban elites and reformist intellectuals within relatively ‘under-developed’ societies, such as Germany and Italy, were faced with a formidable task. These societies were increasingly subject to the intense pressures of capitalist modernity: to increase agricultural productivity; to industrialise; and to dispense with ‘backwards’ social relations which acted as ‘fetters’ on their economic development. However, the project of ‘modernisation’ was persistently frustrated by the archaic character of the absolutist state which predominated across the European continent.

      In response, Europe’s rising commercial elites sought to mobilise the mass of the population behind a programme of industrialisation and constitutional reform. These ‘modernising’ forces drew upon the range of ‘national’ traditions particular to their host territory in order to mobilise the masses for development. As Nairn put it, ‘the new middle-class intelligentsia of nationalism had to invite the masses into history; and the invitation card had to be written in a language they understood’. The rise of nationalism was therefore deeply entangled with the uneven development of industrial capitalism in Europe. Nationalists drew on a mythic past in order to mobilise for the challenges of modernity.

      Scotland did not experience an upsurge in 19th Century nationalism in line with this standard European model. On first sight, this was quite peculiar. After all, Scotland had all the characteristics of a nation state in-the-making, ripe for political and constitutional reform. Not only had Scotland’s position as an independent state had only recently been relinquished through the Act of Union in 1707, but it retained a series of autonomous civic institutions, including the Kirk, Scots law and its distinctive education system.

      Within its ancient universities in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen, Scotland had established itself as a key centre of European enlightenment, brimming with cosmopolitan intellectuals committed to social reform and moral improvement. Furthermore, Scotland had a wealth of national popular myths and folk memories to draw upon, built-up over centuries of fractious relations with its southern neighbour. Why, then, did Scotland not experience an upsurge in demands for sovereignty in the nationalist 19th century, in line with other European societies?

      Nairn’s answer was that Scotland was a highly peculiar case, shaped by its idiosyncratic historical development. With the Act of Union Scottish civil society had been effectively integrated into the first capitalist state and society. This had profound implications for the subsequent development of Scottish nationalism. It meant that Scotland’s economic structure and civil society was already well-adapted to the wave of modernisation which unfolded in the 19th century. Scottish nationalism was peculiarly ‘absent’ in the classic era of nationalism for the simple reason that it did not face the dilemma of ‘under-development’ encountered by its continental European neighbours.

      In place of an organised politics of self-determination, residual ‘national’ sentiment came to be expressed in a primarily cultural form. This was symbolised most obviously in the romantic literature of Walter Scott, the proliferation of ‘tartanry’ and through the fetishization of a ‘lost’ Highland and Gaelic culture, suitably sanitised and stripped of its Jacobite connotations for the polite bourgeois society of Lowland Scotland….

      https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4241-dilemmas-of-over-development-scottish-nationalism-and-the-future-of-the-union

    38. Ken500 says:

      Swindon will be gone at the GE within two years. The mess the LibDims made going in with Cameron. The VOW. Sanctioning the EU Ref. Reneging on the students who voted for them to keep down student loans/ fees. Total betrayal. Clegg got voted out. Swindon will be out soon. Her pathetic haverings. Lying and cheating. She supported austerity.

      Clegg now working for the cheating tax evader Suckerman. For £Millions. Cable knew of Cyril Smith abuse and cover up. Cameron still milking the public purse. The British Chinese consortium. Wasting public money on Hinkley Point and HS2. Wasting £Billions. The Tory Slush fund for consultancies, fees and expenses. Corruption at the heart of Westminster Gov.

    39. geeo says:

      galamcennalath@ 5.51pm

      The big problem for the union appears to be, are there now ENOUGH gullible folk left to matter for their ‘precious union’ to survive ?

      Not looking like it by the day, it seems.

    40. Muscleguy says:

      Her voting record in the parliament means she is a closet Tory anyway. Certainly she would probably be to the right of Clegg if she became leader. Perhaps if poor dead Charlie Kennedy was still around he would be banging his head against the wall at the prospect of her as leader.

      I do pity the Rev in Bath where he has to vote Orange Tory to keep the Blue Tories out. I would rather spoil my ballot paper. Last Holyrood election I could not in all good conscience vote for Shona Robison here in Dundee East and was faced with having to spoil my ballot until I looked up the TSU and found they were at the very least in favour of indyref2 so I was able to vote for someone with a good Yes conscience.

      Here in Scotland vote Orange get Blue.

    41. Muscleguy says:

      Also I think FibDem members should consider to wisdom of having a leader with a seat in Scotland which means it is hanging on a shoogly peg with the polls showing a majority for Yes with Boris as PM.

      If the polls continue to show a majority for Yes but Westminster says no I would expect the Council of Europe to put its oar in. Especially considering we have a precedent of an agreed referendum which was a paragon of a peaceful carnival of politics which the rest of Europe and the world were amazed at.

      Here in Dundee RIC we had a left wing French journo with us for one day so interested were they in what we were achieving here in the Yes City.

      Can European democracy be good if both Catalonia and Scotland are being denied self determination? It surely will not look good when Christine Lagarde travels the world lecturing others on democracy.

    42. CameronB Brodie says:

      More on why rising support for Scottish independence isn’t likely to relate to any surge in Scottish “nationalism”, unlike the full-English Brexit.

      There was no rise in Scottish nationalism: Understanding the SNP victory

      ….Crucially, commentators need to stop painting a picture in which the majority of Scotland predominantly base their political decision making mostly on their national identity. There has been no rise in nationalistic sentiment in Scotland. As we (amongst others) have repeatedly shown in our research, the strongest determinants of both independence and SNP support were pragmatic evaluations about economic prospects, trustworthiness and political personnel. For most people in Scotland the SNP is a normal party, that they like, hate or are indifferent to, but those evaluations for most are based on whether people agree with their policies and how they evaluate their representation.

      If commentators want to understand why the SNP is successful, they need to make a greater effort at properly understanding how public attitudes are formed in Scotland. Suggesting that it is down to sentiment is lazy at best, but actually misrepresenting the majority of Scottish voters. For political parties trying to challenge the SNP, first and foremost Scottish Labour, a similar message applies: to have a chance of engaging them successfully, they need to stop focusing mostly on high-level questions about different types of nationality. Instead they need to challenge the SNP on concrete policy debates around issues that affect people’s lives and which voters in Scotland are much more likely to base their votes on than identity-driven arguments.

      https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/there-was-no-rise-in-scottish-nationalism-understanding-the-snp-victory/

    43. Andy McAngry says:

      As well as a criminal charge for misconduct in public office there should be one for deliberately lying in public office, Swinson and others we know would be serial offenders and in the jail!!!!!

    44. Giving Goose says:

      Jo Swinson is an English Nationalist with an unfortunate accent ( as far as Jo is concerned).

    45. Craig P says:

      Wait, what??

      A Jeremy Hunt ally says: “It shows they are worried. One out of every six [Conservative] members are in Scotland, so they had to do something.”

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/01/boris-johnson-scotland-tories-union?CMP=share_btn_tw

      How can this be? When scotland has 1/12 of the UK population and the Tories are half as popular in Scotland as elsewhere, you would expect only 1/24 of the membership to be in Scotland, not 1/6.

      Something odd going on there…

    46. Republicofscotland says:

      Well the ultra unionist STV news, gave a long platform to Jeremy Hunt’s I promise £6 billion quid rountine.

      Followed by the unwelcome revelation that a Tory Hustings will be held in Perth soon.

    47. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. Scotland’s constitutional position in the new state of Brexitania. You know Scotland’s quest for constitutional justice is really up against it, when you have academia spouting bollocks like this, from Margaret Arnott, in the journal of the Political Studies Association. I suppose this is what Scotland’s constitutional crises and democratic deficit looks like to academia, based outwith Scotland.

      Brexit and a second Scottish Independence Referendum: What happens next?

      ‘Sovereignty’ and ‘democracy’ are frequently mentioned in Brexit debates in the UK and Scottish Parliaments. What might seem as ‘dry’ constitutional principles play out very differently in Scottish and British politics. Whether and when the SNP devolved administration could hold a second Scottish Independence referendum has not been far from ongoing debates about the UK leaving the EU since the June 2016 EU referendum result.

      The SNP argued in its 2016 Scottish Parliament election manifesto that the ‘Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.’

      But how would the SNP Government and Scottish Parliament achieve this? Scotland voted 62% to ‘Remain’ for the EU in June 2016. Brexit put a second Scottish Independence back on the political radar and with it political and legal conundrums.

      The September 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum was to be a once in a life-time vote. On this, both the Yes Campaign and the Better Together Campaign were agreed. ‘Better Together’ stated that remaining in the UK would protect Scotland’s membership of the EU. (my bold)

      Tensions between the SNP devolved administration and UK Government are not new, but Brexit has intensified debates about Scotland’s constitutional position. What role, if any, would the devolved nations have in the negotiations leading to UK withdrawal from the EU? What would future relationships relations of the UK and Scotland be with the EU following Brexit? The tone of debates sharpened as the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government perceived themselves as effectively ignored in terms of any meaningful input into the UK negotiations with the EU27. The SNP Government had sought a ‘special deal’ with the EU – retaining the Single Market and Customs Union.

      The disjuncture in constitutional relations in the devolved UK is increasingly apparent as we approach 29th March 2019. Twenty years after the establishment of the devolved Scottish Parliament in 1999 intergovernmental relations between the UK and Scottish Government have been tense as have relations between the devolved Scottish Parliament and UK Parliament. Withholding legislative consent motions (LCMs) regarding the EU (Withdrawal) Act and other Brexit related legislation and also the Supreme Court ruling on Continuity Act passed by the Scottish Parliament in March 2018 highlighted disagreements between devolved legislature in Scotland and the UK legislature….

      https://www.psa.ac.uk/psa/news/brexit-and-second-scottish-independence-referendum-what-happens-next

    48. Footsoldier says:

      It would be more than ironic if she is made LibDem leader and then loses her seat in East Dunbartonshire at the next election – which is a distinct possibility

      I believe you have to be an MP to be leader of LibDems – what then?

    49. Fireproofjim says:

      Anyway who cares about the irrelevant Libdems.
      Their contest is as sensible as two bald men fighting over a comb.

    50. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T .

      http://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2152588051500904

      Nail Hammer Head puts our Presenters to shame .

    51. Tackety Beets says:

      On Ch4 News shortly ….dive for cover.

    52. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. “weird sociology”? Anyone heard of this dude as I don’t think he’d consider me a spambot? 😉

      Rory Scothorne

      University of Edinburgh
      The Long Retreat: Class, Power and the National Question in Scotland, 1972-1997
      https://www.sgsah.ac.uk/research/ahrc16-17/headline_563018_en.html

    53. Gary45% says:

      Like the rest of the sorry Yoons.
      Opens mouth-ZZZzzzzzz.

    54. DerekM says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      Indeed Robert that is what should happen however i fear they will need to be chucked out kicking and screaming by the English population or they will just continue to try and keep their noses in the trough.

      At least if we are indy they will not be our problem ,if the English want to tie them up shove them in the back of a van and throw them in a ditch at the border then they will be our problem lol

    55. North chiel says:

      “ Jack Collatin @ 0527 pm “ straight and to the point Sir . No “ mincing of words “in that post.!

    56. call me dave says:

      Had another glance through ‘The National’ there and spotted Gordon in the corner of page 13, missed him earlier this morning.

      Pleading May to restore the free TV licence to >75s.

      Jings! What film is it again

      3 tana leaves to maintain life
      9 tana leaves to restore movement

      Oh aye! I remember now.

    57. Andy Anderson says:

      The name Jo is old Scots for sweetheart.

      The way she is behaving most people will give her a different name.

    58. Golfnut says:

      So total UK Tory membership is under 50k. Are they serious.

    59. Petra says:

      Professor John Robertson:-

      ‘153% increase in Glasgow conferences puts it above Chicago.’

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/07/01/153-increase-in-glasgow-conferences-puts-it-above-chicago/

    60. Perhaps we should instigate Project Laughing Stock and mercilessly pillory these idiots on a daily basis.

      They think that they can get away with any old dross as long as they defend their English Masters’ interests, and collaborate in the Rape of Scotland’s wealth and resources.
      Laugh in their faces, I say.
      They are now ridiculous cartoon cut outs.
      Swinson can’t be Leader, ‘cos she is a ‘Scottish’ MP, and WM, as Boris the Turd Hurtler, has declared WM to be the ‘English’ Parliament.
      The Brit Nats are one massive joke now.
      Let’s just laugh at them from now on in.

    61. Stuart Jackson says:

      hope you vote green in the next election reverent. Down there in sunny Bath they are the only party officially support Scottish independence. though the Tories and Brexit party are doing there upmost to support our cause.

    62. Ghillie says:

      Jo has branded herself in a very ugly way.

    63. Petra says:

      WGD:- ‘Borders in the mind.’

      …”Scotland can be a member of the Single Market and Customs area from day one.”…..

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/07/01/borders-in-the-mind/

    64. CameronB Brodie says:

      More from the journal of the Political Studies Association. I see the “irony” of the full-English Brexit as being tinged with a disregard for natural law and legal foundations of the British constitution, frankly.

      Brexit as Political Irony

      The Brexit negotiations have proved to be confusing, frustrating and perhaps even a little boring for all but the most parched of Brexaholics. They have also been spectacularly ironic. Unlike Alanis Morisette’s song of the same name — which, as comedian Ed Byrne said, actually just catalogued a series of unfortunate events — Brexit has been dripping with irony since the referendum result in 2016.

      For a start off, Brexit was never really about membership of the EU. If it had been, then the details of EU membership, both positive and negative, would have played a larger part in the 2016 referendum debate. Brexit was rather about two other covert issues. First, immigration, and second, the internal politics of the Conservative Party….

      https://www.psa.ac.uk/psa/news/brexit-political-irony

    65. frogesque says:

      @Ctaig P :6.31

      Has to be Tory voters, not Conservative and Unionist card carrying members surely?p

      On another note, she who must be obeyed, a previous NO voter and onetime Labour activist has, at age 75 just joined the SNP. She’s giving them a year to get their shit together.

    66. Starting today Finland takes over the Presidency of the Council of the European Union,

      population 5.5 million.

    67. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Petra.

      I’ve spread that one on Facebook.

      TA!

    68. call me dave says:

      @Golfnut

      Tories at 50K… never saw/heard this. Pray tell?

    69. stu mac says:

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/07/calling-all-wikipedia-editors.html

      PAB’s 1st July posts: I’m too lazy to copy them separately, just scroll down.
      https://peterabell.blog/

    70. CameronB Brodie says:

      “On another note, she who must be obeyed, a previous NO voter and onetime Labour activist has, at age 75 just joined the SNP. She’s giving them a year to get their shit together.”

      Happy days. 🙂

    71. frogesque says:

      Thank CBB! She asked me out the blue last night if I could help her fill in the online form!

      @ Wings Emergency Kitten. Keep in there fighting and get well soon!

    72. Tackety Beets says:

      Gawds , that was a poor Ch4 interview with Cathy N and the 2 Libdums, luckily someone phoned me so missed most of it. Smiley thing.

      Thinking forward, they are proposing their Leader option to be JS , who thanks to EVEL will not be able to participate in ALL Parliamentry business?

      Anyone brought this up in interviews?

    73. fifeFolklore says:

      Jo who?

    74. Petra says:

      @ Brian at 8:24pm …… ” In Single Market and Customs area from day one.”

      Great article from WGD Brian which really blows an enormous hole in the scaremongering Unionists arguments / threats. I have to admit that I’d no idea about that at all. It’s a real education on here and bit by bit it’s all coming together for us. I’m also hoping that it’ll cheer the “tick tock Breeks” of the World up too, lol.

    75. Dr Jim says:

      Of the claimed 160.000 Conservative and Unionist party members 8.000 are claimed to be in Scotland says Professor Tim Day of St Mary’s university who did the survey showing that 66% of Tories demand a no deal Brexit no matter the circumstances involving Scotland or anywhere else

      My guess is that the Scottish contingent will be pinning their hopes on Scotland somehow rejecting Independence in favour of the status quo, that’s not likely to happen this time around so one wonders if the Tories in Scotland are such rabid Unionists what or where will they go post Independence if they are the few natural Scottish ones, will they flee to their supposed motherland, will their supposed motherland welcome them post Independence because up here in Scotland we’re pretty easy going about many things but in the big England they’re pretty racist and they may not welcome Scotch people into their Brexit heaven haven or hell

    76. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 15:59:

      There’s a widespread pattern – interviewers don’t challenge BritNat politicians as much as they should.

      You’re absolutely right there. (Other than the SNP people, of course, whom they interrupt and nitpick at will.)

      I was listening to the fragrant Jo on the English Home Service news back during the EU election campaign, and out came the startling claim that the FibDems “were the third largest party”. No qualifications, no explanations, but they certainly weren’t in then-current MEPs (1 from all of the UK, against the SNP’s 2 from Scotland alone, IIRC), nor in MPs, nor in party membership even over the UK as a whole. Maybe they are in Swinson’s alternative universe, or in England alone, but only if you hold the BoJo view that the Scots MPs don’t exist and WM is the English parliament.

      But not a peep from the interviewer at that preposterous piece of self-aggrandisment. I don’t know if it’s simple ignorance (a strange state of affairs for a major news organisation like the Beeb) or if a deliberate policy was introduced in the aftermath of Greg Dyke’s departure to never challenge any politician, but whatever, it’s embarrasingly supine and a great disservice to licence-payers, who need the facts and nothing but.

      By way of contrast, I have watched in surprise and admiration both Kate Bolduan and Jake Tapper on CNN stop an interview dead in its tracks and directly refute some outright lie from an interviewed politician.

      We do indeed desperately lack such Isabel Fraser moments here on the state broadcaster.

    77. Golfnut says:

      @ Call me Dave
      Look at Craig P post at 6:31.

    78. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Picked up this cracker from the WOS Twitter page.

      Iain Dale interviewing Jo Swinson on LBC (link below).

      He really tears her up for $h!†ie paper. You don’t have to watch the first bit – it’s a lot of waffle – but dip in, after the ads, at 26 minutes, where she pontificates on our mandate for indyref2.

      Swinson doing her best ever Dugdale impression! Must admit, I was feeling sorry for her Unionist cringing, which she just didn’t see.

      Enjoy!

      https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/iain-dale-interviews-jo-swinson-lib-dem-leader/

    79. Dr Jim says:

      The Greens Ross Greer trolling the FM now claiming the SG are responsible for the police firing gas grenades at Hong Kong protesters because old story of the SG investing in the company who invests in the company that makes that stuff
      That’s like saying you invest in Kellogs cornflakes and they make other stuff with nuts in it and it killed me so you’re to blame, how far can you reach before folk point out you’re a header, it’s Ross Greer though, Greens, typical, he must know he’s for the high jump at the next election, clever lad but embarrassingly childish, he should eat more cornflakes, or maybe the ones with the nuts

      Talking of Trolling Stephen Daisley’s having a go at it too lying by omission to anybody who’ll read his shit that the SNP are planning to frack as soon as they have a majority and can get rid of the Greens…Psychic Projection Trolling there from the fat boy

    80. Artyhetty says:

      Re; Jack Collatin@5.27pm

      Absolutely spot on. Code for ‘no appetite for a Scottish independence referendum’ means exactly that, ‘we own you, stupid, poor, tiny Scotland’.

      Thing is, many people in Scotland, and more are moving into Scotland, are not daft, they see that
      the Britnat gov in England are not to be trusted, and they will vote accordingly.

      I tend to think of some who come to live in Scotland, especially from England, and ex Labour voters, being like ex smokers, the fumes from it are more toxic than they seem to non smokers, so you avoid at all costs.

      Scotland’s a fabuolus country, in so many ways, let’s not allow the Britnats to ruin it for their own gain, not anymore.

    81. Marcia says:

      Swinson is in the liberal wing of the Tory party.

    82. Cubby says:

      Just why are there so many lying diddy British politicians in the UK. Oh that’s right they are British Nationalists. If you are a Britnat it seems to be mandatory.

    83. Cubby says:

      Dr Jim@8.44pm

      They may well get a hell of a shock because after independence they will be classed as immigrants and probably immigrants from the EU so they may have to prove they can speak English, prove their knowledge and understanding of England and pass a point based system. We may be stuck with the worst of them. LOL

    84. call me dave says:

      @Golfnut

      Yup! Read that earlier….and Ratio 6:1 UK – Scotland… Oh Right!

      So Tories in UK Approx 50K. Mostly old,gifted and white.

      Never did the Maffs last time. 🙂

    85. Robert Peffers says:

      @Cubby says: 1 July, 2019 at 9:26 pm:

      ” … Just why are there so many lying diddy British politicians in the UK. Oh that’s right they are British Nationalists. If you are a Britnat it seems to be mandatory.”

      Ah! Cubby, I explained all that a very long time ago on Wings. For many, many decades I’ve described the Westminster Government as the de facto parliament of the country of England and the unionist parties as part of, “The Westminster Establishment”.

      I give the example that the very first thing that happens in times of great emergency is that The Queen of England, (I call her that because she chose to be designated as Elizabeth II when Scotland has never had an Elizabeth I), summons someone of her choice to her presence and commands that person to form, “Her Majesty’s, (cross party), Wartime cabinet.

      The obvious conclusion of that is, “The Establishment”, is the main thing and the whole fantasy of party politics is a total sham. Ay present we have two distinct examples of this, “Westminster Establishment”, acting together against the common enemy. One is the way they all pull together against the Scottish Independence movement and the other is how they contrive to pull together for Brexit.

      If you doubt the latter example consider that the Labour Party could have ended the matter with one sentence from Corbyn. He only needed to say, “I move a vote of no confidence in the Government”, and the government falls – and he could have done so while May was still actively in office.

      Mind you, “The Establishment”, is far larger than the Political Branch, which is only the tip of a very big iceberg.

    86. Fireproofjim says:

      To add the necessary small percentage of Yes voters, all the SNP need to do is to stick up a series of posters on blllboards around Scotland with the big moon face of Boris Johnston and some of his fruitier statements.
      For example “a pound spent in Croydon is better spent than a pound spent in Strathclyde”
      “The Barnett formula should be scrapped and the English tax payer should no longer have to support the Scots.” “F##k business.” “French turds.”
      Plenty more where that came from.

    87. Golfnut says:

      @Call me Dave.

      So was it a slip of the tongue, or is the office of Prime Minister actually being decided by just 50k voters. Also why is the Tory me membership listed as 160,000. Plus just who exactly were the people surveyed by St Mary’s University. Questions, questions and will anybody ask them?

    88. Effijy says:

      Jo Swinson and Kez Dugdale are the Unionists Fran and Anna.

    89. Sinky says:

      Joyce Swinson all over the place in Tuesday’s Hootsman article. Her voting record should be on bus adverts

    90. RM says:

      Jo Swinson is looking for eventually a seat in the House of Lords at Westminster she’s just the type of person that gets there a gie liar.



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