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Our hearts are bleeding

Posted on July 22, 2015 by

From “Record View” in today’s Daily Record:


If only there’d been some way of ensuring Scotland was never “skewered by political decisions made on the basis of English priorities”, etc etc.

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    1. 22 07 15 12:17

      Our hearts are bleeding | Speymouth

    100 to “Our hearts are bleeding”

    1. R-type Grunt says:

      One more time..

      There is NO Scottish Labour Party!

      Is this not what the Daily Record campaigned for?

      Cheers Nawbags.

    2. Johnny says:

      Honestly, they have such a cheek even writing that. As if it was not the entire point of a Yes vote. Yet will they take it to its logical conclusion and say they support independence now? Will they…..

    3. One_Scot says:

      At what point do you think most reasonable minded ‘No’ voters think to themselves, we’ve been taken for mugs.

    4. Donald MacKenzie says:

      Ach, it’s a damn shame.

      Thank goodness for the Daily Record yet again standing up for Scotland and fighting the good fight to ensure that people in Scotland are able to make decisions for Scotland. What a wonderfully principled newspaper!

    5. Neil Mackenzie says:

      I wonder if the SNP would consider fielding candidates in other parts of the UK. There’s definitely a ‘gap in the market’.

    6. gillie says:

      “We need another VOW, and quick.”

    7. They have got the brassest of brass necks. Can’t wait for the demise of that budgie cage liner.

    8. heedtracker says:

      “I blame the fire brigade, bunch of slackers”

      Yours faithfully,
      John Horatio Rupert Macternan OBE

    9. caledonia says:

      The labour facebook pages is well worth reading with thousands threatening to leave the party

      the party of the poor my arse

    10. cearc says:

      Dear Daily Record,

      What solution could there be?

    11. Craig MacInnes says:

      Ooof! It’s a puzzle right enough…a real conundrum 🙂

    12. gerry parker says:

      But I thought we were better together?

    13. fred blogger says:

      ‘your cheatin’ heart’.
      still the buntings out in dumfries today in celebration of the opening of a brand new food bank ‘inspirational opportunity’.

    14. Brian Powell says:

      Brown is coming back to save us from EVEL, I saw a week or so ago.

      Anyone know if the DR editors live in Scotland?

    15. The Moidart says:

      Surely that should read… Once again the labour supporter in Scotland (McTernan) finds himself skewered by political decisions made on the basis of English /labout policies???

    16. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      “I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents……..”

      Verily,let us all give praise. The Daily Record has developed a pair

    17. Proud Cybernat says:

      When will it ever seep into their thick craniums that this has always been the case in Scotland… and always will be.

      But hey, it’s a price worth paying coz we still have the Union that will give us Tory governments for (at least) the next 15 years that will shaft us all stupid, day-in, day-out.

      Redcoat – you have no right to fecking complain about anything. This is what you told the people of Scotland to vote for in IndyRef#1 so just shut the feck up.

    18. Pool9 says:

      If only…

      The Record still thinks it shapes opinions in Scotland, which is why it is irony immune.

      Because that quoted sentence only makes absolute sense if you imagine your readers (are effing idiots) and have the reading ability and trusting nature of 4 year olds. With the same long term memory. Last year barely exists for a 4 year old. So maybe everyone will forget what Labour failed to do for Scotland recently, and feel pity for them because English priorities are skewering them? Aye right. English priorities drove Better Together, and Labour embraced those priorities then. It will not be soon forgot.

      And why should Labour supporters be worthy of mention in Scotland today? They have one UK seat and a list full of shaking leaves. Sod them.


    19. gordoz says:

      The Daily Record ; actually physically turns my stomach every time I see it on a news stand, (or see some poor misinformed individual reading it).

      Its a bit like a ‘jakie’ version of the BBC overall.

    20. gordoz says:

      Has anyone heard from Mr Brown ?? (Scotland’s Grey Vote Saviour)

    21. DerekM says:

      So once again says the DR which would mean it has happened before and yet they misled their readers during the indyref and told them to wave their butchers flags and vote No.

      Sorry DR but you do not have the right to complain this is what you wanted and encouraged others to vote for and you won ,dooming Scotland to years of tory robbery and for that we will do everything in our power to see you put out of business.

    22. stewart fae stoney says:

      Labour party speaks up for the working class and we are better together – my arse

    23. caz-m says:

      Dave Beveridge 11.02am
      “Can’t wait for the demise of that budgie cage liner.”

      You can’t think much of your budgie if you would even consider putting trash like the Record inside it’s cage.

      You would have the SSPCA round at your door for cruelty to animals.

      I refuse to even touch a Daily Record now, infectious diseases and all that.

    24. Stoker says:

      “skewered by political decisions made on the basis of English priorities”

      What a fuckin cheek!
      The Dirty Redcoat has been well and truly skewered for helping to put Scotland’s people in that position and by the way, we’re not done with you yet DR. You helped your London masters to destroy our referendum and country. You will pay the consequences.

    25. Luigi says:

      One_Scot says:

      22 July, 2015 at 10:57 am

      At what point do you think most reasonable minded ‘No’ voters think to themselves, we’ve been taken for mugs.

      It hasn’t sunk in yet, we are still in the shock/denial phase. I think another jump in support for YES over the next year will indicate that, that all important group, the soft NO, Scottish Labour supporters, finally start seeing the writing on the wall.

      It’s becoming clearer by the day, the choice we all face:

      A minimum of 10 more years of hard blue tory government, followed by soft red tory (perhaps) or more hard blue stuff,

      Or independence! 🙂

    26. Ken500 says:

      The right wing Press at it’s worst. Campaigning against Scotland. Tony Blair protected from the public by £million of public money. Where’s the Chilcot Report.

      Where’s the VOW. Trampled under Foote. The psychopath liar. The Daily Record greedy hypocrites. Six figure salaries will not give £20 a week to stop children/vulnerable starving.

    27. Neil Palmer says:

      Labour’s only hope would be, on every issue, to listen to McTernan’s advice and then do the exact opposite.

      I’m not holding my breath, though!

    28. Fuck “Labour voters”!

      Are they the only people in Scotland who this Tory government is taking a big long piss on?

      Unbelievable bollocks from the Record as per.

    29. Ken500 says:

      Everyone who said vote NO is shafted by the Tories. The Oil sector, the supermarkets, businesses, Medical profession, Services, Media, politicians etc. The Tories lied to win an election.

    30. Morag says:

      The soft Nos aren’t going to jump in any significant numbers while they still believe in Project Fear. They’ve been brainwashed to believe that no matter how bad things get under the union, they would be far far worse in an independent Scotland.

      This needs to be addressed, and addressed forcefully, before we’ll see a jump to over 50% in the polls.

    31. caz-m says:


      IF you do have to touch the Daily Record, for instance to rip it in half, then please wear a pair of industrial strength gloves. Direct contact with your skin could be highly dangerous.

    32. Fear not, caz-m @ 11:28am:

      I don’t actually have a budgie. I’ll be getting a new puppy soon though and wouldn’t housetrain it on the Rectum even if it had a Kennomeat vindaloo the night before.

    33. Morag says:

      By the way, talking of opening food banks in Dumfries, read this and weep.

      I’m certain this new initiative is being opened with the specific purpose of destroying First Base, because Mark Frankland doesn’t toe the Lady Bountiful line or tug is forelock in the approved way. Oh yes, and he’s an independence campaigner.

    34. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The Daily Record is actually worth buying today – to take its editorial comments and laceration of Labour for preservation and future use.
      It has actually asked “What is the point of Labour anymore?”

      Let us watch for any future development along similar lines

    35. jackie g says:

      Morag says:@11.41am

      The soft Nos aren’t going to jump in any significant numbers while they still believe in Project Fear.

      You are correct Morag,

      I was reading an archive link to the Herald yesterday
      I wished i hadn’t some of the comments were scary.

      They honestly believe that Independence would have brought Armaggeddon to Scotland.

    36. Les Wilson says:

      The DR have not changed their attitude they are just hedging their bets,in an attempt to sell even more crap.

    37. caz-m says:

      Ken500 11.33am
      “Where’s the Chilcot Report?”

      Ken, has anyone actually chapped the guys door to see if he is still alive?

      Because there is a rumour going around that Tony Blair climbed up Chilcot’s drainpipe, got into the room where he was writing the inquiry and strangled him.

    38. Macart says:

      Oh, they have got to be kidding? More neck than a giraffe.

      THIS is what they wanted, what they campaigned for. THIS IS BETTER TOGETHER.

      Just what did they think was going to happen on the other side of a no vote? That their good buddies the Conservatives would split the spoils of a ‘United Kingdom’ equitably with Labour? Labour got into bed with the Conservatives ergo the Record got into bed with the conservatives and all in the name of better togetherness. The mind bending arrogance it must have taken for Labour and by extension the Record to believe that Scotland’s electorate were theirs for the taking. That we were effectively spoils to be bartered.

      Unfortunately the Conservatives had other plans and in their moronic fucking arrogance and ignorance Labour and their media outlets never saw it coming. Of course Labour had exactly the same idea as the conservatives. Sideline the Scottish parliament, limit its powers and enact severe austerity measures, its just that the Conservatives beat them to the punch. Better, the blue tories launched immediately into EVEL, literally the day after the vote and set about a massive and destructive GE campaign based on anti Scottish racism.

      We are where we are in no small measure thanks to the Record and Labour.

      Well done them.

    39. Simon says:

      “A pragmatic Labour Government will always be preferable to an ideologically pure Labour opposition.”

      Not for me it won’t.

      If campaigning against child poverty doesn’t get you elected, you keep trying. You try to persuade people with the force of your argument.

      You absolutely do not turn around and say. “O.K. what if we let a few children starve (not your children obviously, the children of scroungers and non-voters, they probably deserve it anyway). Will you vote for us then?”

    40. The Moidart says:

      The Daily Record.. I always imagined it would actually be cleaner, more interesting and more informative after being used as toilet paper..

    41. Jim Thomson says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill 11:43am

      No, the DR is NOT worth buying at any time.

      If they see an upswing in circulation they’ll simply change their editorial standpoint to save their own bacon. They have NO morals.


    42. dakk says:

      Its called faux indignation.

      The Mirror owned DR – North Britain’s Champion does not and never will give tuppence for Scotland’s well-being.

      Like most unionists, their regard for Scotland only pertains to its importance to England /Britain or their imperial dream of making Britain ‘Great’.The rest are just timid sad creatures with no ambition or vision for their country.

      Daily Record,Gordon Brown,George Galloway, Ali Darling,Ruth,Wullie Rennie,BBC,we can see right through all of you .

    43. Mealer says:

      The Dirty Redcoat poisons Scotland.

    44. Coolheads Prevail says:

      The op-ed piece talks about a local MP justifying the stance on the doorsteps, but this stance is just peachy for the last remaining Scottish Labour MP’s constituents in Red Morningside.

    45. BrianW says:


      they do print some amount o shite in that paper

    46. Ken500 says:

      Tony Blair destroyed the Labour Party and the world economy,

      The right-wing Press MSM campaigning to keep on tax evading. On 6 figure salaries will not pay £20 a week to stop starving children. Tony Blair a psychopathic, greedy, lying hypocrite.

    47. paulTgeist says:

      @ Morag – Could not agree more with your post at 11.41am but then you go and post a link to a UKOK rag at 11.42am totally going against your previous post.

      It does not matter that he’s an independence supporter, all the hits on that link help to pay for the lies and muck they print and the majority of that rags output is pro Union.

      You’re promoting a rag which helped support Project Fear.

      @ Dave McEwan Hill – The DR is never worth buying for the exact same reasons given above. The only way the DR could even begin to redeem itself is to come out in favour of full blown pro independence. Even then i would be extremely weary of it.

    48. Tartan Tory says:


      Not much else to laugh about.

      Somehow, “I told you so” doesn’t feel smug. 🙁

    49. Thepnr says:

      Daily Record sees the light?

      Too little, too late!

    50. Luigi says:

      jackie g says:

      22 July, 2015 at 11:48 am

      Morag says:@11.41am

      The soft Nos aren’t going to jump in any significant numbers while they still believe in Project Fear.

      You are correct Morag,

      I was reading an archive link to the Herald yesterday
      I wished i hadn’t some of the comments were scary.

      They honestly believe that Independence would have brought Armaggeddon to Scotland.

      Many of those fearful ones who voted NO were really banking on another Labour government to get back in and save them. When it eventually sinks in that this is never going to happen, they will change. There comes a point when there is nothing left to lose, and then the terrified suddenly lose their fear. So many voted NO because they were afraid of losing something. Well, it will soon become clear to them that everything – everything bad that BT said would happen if they voted YES is now going to happen anyway, probably much quicker than anyone expected.

      Fear tactics only work up to a point, a tipping point is reached when it backfires spectacularly. Project Fear did not defeat independence at all, it simply managed to slow the transition to YES enough to secure a Phyrric NO vicotry. Remember support for a Scottish parliament shot up during the painful Thatcher years. I believe the same will now happen with independence under Cameron.

    51. ArtyHetty says:

      Indeed Morag and Jackie g, the no lot really are brainwashed. Or should that be braindirtied!
      It is easy it seems to make sure the gullible believe the lies that they are told, day in day out.

      I even had someone mention Greece as a warning(!) when the subject of Scotland came up in conversation. Ffs.

      People really are selfish though, because they will be worried they can’t access their cash or something so catastrophic as that, if we choose to throw off the shackles of westmonster one day.

      A bit like the poor, sick and vulnerable, who have no cash to access, but the no lot don’t give a monkeys about them, clearly.

    52. ArtyHetty says:


      ‘Banking’ being the operative word, by and large when it comes to the fear factor, disgusting mindset of many who are happy with foodbanks in the 21st century.

    53. Lochside says:

      Crocodile tears from the DR. They know now that the ba’s on the slates with Labour. Now revealed as the bunch of no principled jackals in tory clothing.

      But Morag and others are right..unless the SNP come up with a proper proposal for our own currency and complete protection for pensions,the soft ‘No’s will still shit it.

      Greece is being made an example of to teach us and others, e.g. the Catalans not to try anything stupid like another Referendum. The fearties would rather eat their own vomit than take a risk on ‘uncertainty’..the Unionists’ hex word.

    54. Luigi says:

      The poor have been squeazed dry – there is very little left to take from that source. Osbourne will now start working his way up the food chain.

      The next group to be bled will be the professionals/ lower-middle classes, those that voted NO THANKS in abundance, because they were quite comfortable in the union, thank you very much.

      Boy are they in for a shock!

    55. Joemcg says:

      Yep,Arty, perusing the zoomer forums Greece is the mantra from the solid no voters.They will not shut up about it.

    56. Stoker says:

      Dave McEwan Hill wrote:
      “The Daily Record is actually worth buying today…”

      Eh, naw, Dave!
      In the words of one of its favoured sons – NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.

    57. yesindyref2 says:

      The Record has put itself into a curious self-made trap. By supporting Labour it supported, endorsed and perhaps originated the Vow. The Vow has backfired on Labour and therefore has backfired on the Record.

      Now Labour is in a total mess in itself both in Scotland and in England, it needs to go different directions, but this is not consistent with “solidarity”. The Record is in the position where it has to promote Labour’s survival in Scotland, and the only way to do this is telling it as it is, not gloss over the cracks. And I think the Record realises that Labour in Scotland has to be an Independent party, totally controlled in Scotland, but can’t use the word “Independent” because of its stance on Independence during the Referendum, a stance which led to both its difficulties and Labour’s.

      The way forward is clear, Labour must become “The Scottish Labor Party” in name and fact. Which means they will be able to set their own policy on Indy Ref 2. I think anyone with any sense in Labour (damn few!), will realise that Labour can not then blindly endorse the Union, but should remain neutral (or even support a YES).

      If Labour in Scotland during Indy Ref 2 do take an apparent neutral stance, then the Record will have no option but to be unbiased and fairly neutral. Which curiously means it could make itself a niche as the only neutral and unbiased media outlet in Scotland during Indy Ref 2. Which could increase its circulation.

      So – come on The Record!

    58. Tartan Tory says:

      Luigi – “The next group to be bled will be the professionals/ lower-middle classes, those that voted NO THANKS in abundance, because they were quite comfortable in the union, thank you very much.

      Unfortunately, this is a significant group, but I fear that they will be the hardest to shift. They are so ‘up to their necks’, that no amount of Union enforced hardship will be seen as a case for moving away from Aunties apron strings.

      They will always see a light at the end of a unionist tunnel and a darkness down an independence path. They strive for better things through debt and believe firmly that they have safety in numbers.

      Something I’ve noticed out on the road – there are cheap/old cars with Yes stickers and then there are Range Rovers with the same. I don’t see too many vehicles in the middle with yes badges. Thankfully, I’ve not seen a No Thanks / UKOK badge since the end of September!

    59. Clootie says:

      Blair is back. Hail Blair the great “Tory but different”

    60. Iain More says:


      I still wont buy that chanty roll of a rag.

    61. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, Greece is indeed the mantra from the NO activists. What they don’t realise is it’s double-edged considering the way the EU is treating Greece. Comparisons to the way the UK is treating Scotland will therefore be easier to see – and use.

    62. sensibledave says:

      Morag 11:41 am

      You wrote: “The soft Nos aren’t going to jump in any significant numbers while they still believe in Project Fear. They’ve been brainwashed to believe that no matter how bad things get under the union, they would be far far worse in an independent Scotland. This needs to be addressed, and addressed forcefully, before we’ll see a jump to over 50% in the polls.”

      At last! The voice of enlightenment (apart from the “brainwashing” comment)!

      It isn’t me that you have to convince of the cause of Independence, and it isn’t the population of England (on the whole we are ambivalent). It isn’t the Tory, the BBC, the MSM, the Labour Party or the Yes voters.

      To get Independence Scotland needs a swing of just over 5% which requires just 2.6% of voters to change their mind.

      And yet, almost everything one reads here on Wings are attacks on one, some or all of the above – and not a peep, other than derision, hatred, blame and loathing of those that voted No.

      Its an interesting tactic but does it rally help the cause?

    63. Tinto Chiel says:

      Relax, this apparent effrontery can be explained once you realise the DR exists in a parallel universe where irony, satire and memory don’t exist


      O/T @ TacketyBeets: stop that multi-tasking and listen up. Skippy’s back!

      Apologies in advance for any double post.

    64. gus1940 says:

      Given that it now looks as if Corbyn may win the UK Labour leadership election I wonder if BBC Weegie will still go ahead with their free Labour PPB in the form of the debate between Deputy Dug and Ken Mackintosh.

      Given that they are both fans of Creepy Jim how are they going to avoid having somebody ask a question about Corbyn as a potential leader.

      On the subject of yesterday’s man Murphy, who so recently filled the media every day, if Corbyn wins it would be unlikely that Creepy Jim would step into some cushy well paid Labour sinecure post – He might even have to look for a proper job but who in their right mind would employ him?

      I suppose that, as a disciple, he might get a job as a lackey of a certain well known multi-millionaire war criminal who blinded by his own vanity did a wonderful job for Corbyn this morning.

    65. yesindyref2 says:

      I agree with what you post. A certain blog writer posted that NO voters are cowards, greedy or thick or something like that, and it really doesn’t help at all. It might envelope the writer in a smug air of “I’m right you’re wrong” but does nothing to convince the soft NOes.

      I also find by the way that so-called hard NOes are open to voting YES in the nexy Ref. They need the risks and uncertainties to be acknowledged and admitted, and addressed as much as possible, and to be convinced over the economy and the currency. The EU membership question is of importance, but lesser.

      Sensible polite arguments will win the day, but only wrapped around reality and Truth.

    66. Jimbo says:

      Ha, the Daily Record complaining about getting what they campaigned for.

    67. Joemcg says:

      Indyref2-I agree but it’s very hard to bite your tongue after seeing full on attacks and downright insults on us yes voters!

    68. dakk says:


      A wee bit of exposing and shaming can help some people along with their lack of self awareness 🙂 , but to suggest Wings and other pro Indy blogs do not add valuable factual knowledge to the debate is being disingenuous.

      If we were relying on MSM for our info and debate we would be needing a 15% swing or more.

    69. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, it is hard. I usually stay away with it though because I do think it’s a good line of argument to be able to use in the future. The more ammunition “they” provide us with, the better it will be in the long run 🙂

    70. Lollysmum says:

      Well I was going to comment but it seems that you’ve all said eveything that needs to be said 🙂

      Note to self-get onto Internet earlier 😉
      Away on holiday & poor internet reception on Norfolk coast so keep up the good work folks & well done 🙂

      For those going to the WoS weekend-have a great time.

    71. dakk says:


      Have a great holiday,and thanks for all your valuable perspectives from England.

      Give my regards to Alan Partridge : )

    72. “jackie g says:
      22 July, 2015 at 11:48 am
      Morag says:@11.41am
      The soft Nos aren’t going to jump in any significant numbers while they still believe in Project Fear.
      You are correct Morag,
      I was reading an archive link to the Herald yesterday
      I wished i hadn’t some of the comments were scary.
      They honestly believe that Independence would have brought Armaggeddon to Scotland.”

      Commenters on the Herald (and/or the Hootsman) are not the fabled ‘Soft Nos’. In general, what slips through the moderation net on those sites is the fearmongery of hard-nosed career nawbags, toned down to seem reasonable. Most of them resort to nasty invective when called out.

      Actually, kudos to sensibledave, who’s at least willing to put his views up front on an real open forum where he’ll be challenged.

    73. Thepnr says:


      Actually, kudos to sensibledave, who’s at least willing to put his views up front on an real open forum where he’ll be challenged.

      Right enough, I must be going soft as I actually agree with his last post. Might just be a one off though Dave 🙂

    74. Andy Nimmo says:

      I buy the Record every Wednesday – for Joan McAlpine and Saturday for Horse Racing. …Honest Guv..
      Todays front page story was the world shattering news re a mum who let her 4 year old son play in the washing machine while it was switched off and unplugged.
      Salem witch hunt anyone?

    75. Anagach says:

      sensibledave says:
      That this forum largely preaches amongst the converted. Which is for once pretty accurate.

      But the strategies for overcoming the No vote are tied up in complex issues.

      How to overcome the either false or absurd wall of negative and fearful soundbites. When access to the media is essentially in the hands of vested No interests ?

      If people are willing to believe that oil is the only product of Scotland’s economy then we may call them stupid but they are absorbing a distillation of what newspapers and the BBC have been ramming down their throats day after day for years and in the complete absence of any pushed factual information.

      In the same vein the “Crisis in X” where X is police, health, education etc that BBC Scottish Labour continue to push is the same thing happening now.

      So how to proceed ?

    76. sensibledave says:

      @ Thepnr 3.12

      …. I am humbled (a rare event!).

    77. Aldo says:

      Limiting welfare is an English priority? I would have thought it would be the priority of any taxpayer or anyone who cares about national economic stability or anyone who sees the fruits of welfarism (delinquents, benefits scroungers etc). Let’s stop pretending these things are purely English concerns. We are not a different species on a different planet. The same issues affect us.

      Scotland has fallen into the trap of seeing personalities, brands and identities as being more important than actual issues. Ask most Scots about individual issues without mentioning party politics and most of them probably agree with the tories or even UKIP or the BNP without actually realising it. Yet poll support for these parties and the tories get 15%, UKIP about 2% and the BNP gets supported by one guy in Larkhall who was bribed by Nick Griffin.

      Scotland is a right wing country. It just doesn’t vote right – yet.

    78. Aldo says:

      Oil comprises about 10-20% of our Scottish economy. If it becomes unviable then we have a problem. Scotland could be independdent. It could survive as an independent nation. So could the Isle of Bute. The question is the cost of independence – and if it’s to be a high cost, is it worth it? Is the thing you are getting really worth the sacrifice?

      During the entire Yes campaign which began unofficially the day the SNP gained their majority at Holyrood, I never heard one supporter of independence outline even one potential downside of independence. This is disingenuous. We would probably see higher taxes, more borrowing and less spending. This is the minimum that was likely to happen. At the extreme end you have exclusion from Sterling zone and EU entry refused, an exodus of business and jobs. Yet the Yes campaign’s supposed strength – it’s relentless smiley happy positivity – was actually its undoing. People know real life doesn’t work like that.

    79. yesindyref2 says:

      At the moment there’s no referendum campaign, no general election campaign, several months away from the Holyrood elections, and perhaps this is the best time for the soft gentle approach to Indy. And for me, it’s about opening minds now, not persuasion. Just getting people to question anything and everything they read and hear – from any source, including pro-indy ones. To trust their own judgement, not any so-called “independent impartial” commentator.

    80. yesindyref2 says:

      “Let’s stop pretending these things are purely English concerns. We are not a different species on a different planet. The same issues affect us.

      Scotland has fallen into the trap of seeing personalities, brands and identities as being more important than actual issues.”

      Make your mind up, we’re either the same or different!

    81. yesindyref2 says:

      @ Aldo says: “Oil comprises about 10-20% of our Scottish economy.”

      Considering that all the Unionists are telling us that we’ll have a black hole because of the drop in oil revenues because of the drop in oil prices, are you telling us that they’re wrong, and that oil still comprises 10-20% of Scotland GDP?

      SNAP doesn’t agree with you, for instance for 2014

      “In 2014, onshore Scottish Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is estimated at £139 billion in total.
      Including a geographical share of extra-regio (offshore) activity, Scottish GDP is estimated at £153 billion in total.”

      Which means that in 2014 offshore revenue was £14 billion, or 9.15% of what would have been iScotland’s GDP, but at today’s prices it will have dropped by at least half, so therefore less than 5%.

      I wish Unionists would make up their minds what fable they wish us thickoes to believe!

    82. Truth says:

      Some of the comments on here are not helpful. For example those going on about the professionals in the middle and those doing well out if the union backing no.

      I am self employed, I know a great many self employed in my line of work. Compared to most we do pretty well.

      The majority of those self employed professionals I know voted yes.

      If you are doing well, it doesn’t automatically make you selfish or unable to see that others are struggling. Most of us remember the struggles we left behind.

      It’s a bit like those socialists that want rid of first class, when I would argue what they really should be campaigning for is first class for everyone.

      Don’t do the no campaigns work for it by pigeon holing people incorrectly, and alienating those we need to win over.

    83. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I just skip past Waldo’s posts these days. It’s the only sensible thing to do, Dave.

      And typing ‘sensible’ and Dave’ in the same sentence leads me to observe that, sometimes, sensibledave geez awa’ his sense.


    84. frankieboy says:

      The good old Daily Rancid, championing the cause yet again for Scotland… Anybody else wish they wouldn’t bother and instead just pack up and leave?

    85. Aldo says:

      We are fundamentally the same, yesindyref2 (what will you change that to after the next referendum – yesindyref3? :0)

      Scotland is a bit miffed at a few things. Thatcher and the emergence of England (once our equal, more or less) as a truly global economic power are probably the two main things. It also doesn’t help that a Scottish 12 year old is as likely to say “Arsenal” these days when asked what team he supports as Celtic, Rangers, Hearts or Hibs. We feel a bit left behind. A bit left out. But when it comes to bread and butter issues – defence, immigration, welfare, Europe – we are broadly in line with the English. I know that from reading poll results posted on this website.

    86. yesindyref2 says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon
      I can understand that, but then the insisious repetition of inacuracies is designed to do just exactly that. People don’t bother refuting them, so they stand as “fact” to any non-regular reader of this or any forum.

      It’s a pain, but their “inaccuracies” need to be corrected every time, with official links (preferably .gov or where possible.

      Otherwise the DM rules KO, wherever it’s besotted readers go.

    87. Tinto Chiel says:

      Quite correct, Truth. I have a family member who is self-employed and in his line of work almost every one he met at professional seminars was Yes in the campaign. How many businesses were registered with the Yes campaign? Was it not about 2,500?

      One thing the referendum taught me was that the usual presumptions were often wide of the mark once you started to hit the doors. My last canvassed house before the WM election had five cars outside: 3 Beamers, a Merc and a Range Rover. Both voters were SNP and had been Yessers.

      Bring back Yoda, please. He was quite funny at times. Or is it the same person as Aldo with a caffeine rush?

    88. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Lochside.

      You typed,

      “unless the SNP come up with a proper proposal for our own currency and complete protection for pensions”

      There was NO problem with the arrangement for pensions! The problem was that the MSM would not print the true situation, preferring that the truth be hidden, to reinforce ‘project fear’.

      This graphic was shared widely on the web but I’m not aware of of the MSM making in public in the print media, or on TV.

      I printed off a few copies of it.

      When I was campaigning with Team YES Bus at City Square, Dundee, in early September, a guy, around 70, approached me and asked,

      “In the event of a YES vote, what’s gonna happen to my pension from Newcastle?”

      I was flummoxed, because I know Newcastle is the centre for National Insurance. So I showed him the printout, and pointed out that the letter’s email address for reply was the Dundee Pension Centre, around half a mile from City Square!

      He then said, “Why aren’t we told this?” I could only reply that the mainstream media, like BBC Scotland, The Daily Record, and so on, were all part of the NO campaign.

      I gave him a copy of the WBB, open at page 25, which gave all the info on pensions.

      It included,

      “For example, Labour MP Ian Davidson, chair of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee, made these comments in the House Of Commons in May 2014:

      “The state pension of any individual in Scotland, in the event of separation, would not be adversely affected […] they would continue to get the level of state pension, the same as everyone else in the UK… people themselves can be assured that their pensions are secure.”

      Mr Davidson was reflecting a statement to the committee by UK government pensions minister Steve Webb, which was reported in the Scotsman the same day:

      “State pensions would still be paid after independence, a UK minister has told MPs, despite concerns raised by the Better Together campaign.

      Giving evidence to the Scottish Affairs Select Committee, Lib Dem pensions minister Steve Webb said that anybody who had paid UK national insurance would be entitled to their state pension whatever the outcome of the referendum.

      The intervention contradicts concerns raised by former Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling, the leader of the Better Together campaign.””

      As you can see, there was no problem for the SNP to address – except for the lack of truth and neutral coverage of all the issues by the MSM.

      I believe that guy went away thinking about how the truth was being manipulated.

    89. Tinto Chiel says:

      Just so, BDTT.

      During the referendum we had to print off the DWP official statement that pensions would be guaranteed in the event of a Yes vote so that we could hand them out to pensioners at our Yes stall. Unfortunately our then local Labour MP and a former MSP spent their time terrifying pensioners that they would lose everything.

      Fear is a powerful weapon. That’s when I really began to despise the Labour Party: liars and crooks at bottom.

    90. AndyDrynan says:

      I know three habitual daily record readers, the three combined have the same IQ as toast. I think they only buy it because they can’t work the internet, and its produced daily, unlike the rest of their comics. Braindeid jaikies.

    91. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Chiel.

      One of our Team YES Bus activists (70 year old) had a blether with me around the time of the referendum.

      He related how a ‘Labour activist’ had phoned him, at home to speak about concerns regarding the referendum. My friend smelled a rat and asked the activist to phone back in ten minutes, coz it wasn’t convenient, ‘at the moment’.

      By the time the activist called back, my friend was ready and able to record the conversation, which he did.

      It was all about how my friend would lose his pension in the event of a YES vote, and so on. Now the thing is, my friend was the epitome of discretion and wouldn’t tell me who it was on the phone but he had recognised his voice – and he was a major player in the Labour Party in Dundee.

      I tried to persuade my friend to allow me to forward the audio file to Rev Stu, because of its dynamite quality but, his wife said that he shouldn’t share it because it was a private conversation and it would cause a lot of bother if it was made public.

      This is what we’re up against, until we actually achieve independence. $h!t promulgated by the Unionist side, that we can only fight against on a face-to-face basis.

    92. TInto Chiel says:

      This squares with our experience in Hamilton, Brian, where Jimmy Hood and John Maxton (relative of Jimmy, Sheesh!) were manning the tawdry wee SLABBER stalls and frightening the old, the poor and the halt.

      Hope you liked my Crazy World Of Arthur Brown clip on the McTernan Thread. I know you’re a nostalgic type from O/T.

      All the best. Timex will never escape my lips again. Admonished!

    93. Aldo says:

      People have spent their whole lives paying into the UK exchequer. Some people have moved from England to Scotland or vice versa during their working lives.

      This makes pensions a bit of a minefield, regardless of what pro independence people say, when it comes to the possibility of taking Scotland out of the UK. As I understand it, the UK government would assist in the payment of Scottish pensions post indy, at least for a while. That would make sense. However, Salmond jeopardised any such future arrangement when he threatened to lumber the continuing UK with Scotland’s debt share in retaliation for not being allowed a Sterling currency union. cUK would have been well within its rights to simply abandon some or all of its transitional arrangements with Scotland under such circumstances. Salmond is a balloon who helped sink independence with this nonsense. Even the post Soviet economies that split from Russia paid off their USSR era debt. What Salmond basically said is that the UK govt is a worse regime than Soviet era Moscow. Eejit!

      Anyway, I digress. The important point here is you can’t expect anyone to have confidence in anything when you throw around threats like that.

    94. Aldo says:

      Someone mentioned the SNP running in the rest of the UK.

      A poll was done on this. It predicted the SNP would get 11%. But when you consider who those votes would be coming from (mostly labour), and the fact that Westminster is FPTP, then what you end up with is a tory landslide of Blairesque proportions.

      So please, pretty please – run in England next time!

    95. Tinto Chiel says:

      Time for your shift change, Aldo/Yoda/Insensate Dave.

      Try Duracell next time.

    96. yesindyref2 says:

      @Aldo: “This makes pensions a bit of a minefield, regardless of what pro independence people say”

      It’s what the DWP say – you know, the Department of Work and Pensions, you know, a UK Government Department – hardly the epitome of “pro independence people”.

      I suspect you of propagating deliberately, false information, what’s your answer to that?

      Disclaimer: I don’t work for the DWP.

    97. yesindyref2 says:

      Ignoring your opinion on what might happen, and that the rUK by being the cUK automatically takes all the debt and nearly all the assets, in that “International Law” you mentioned earlier, there’s this:

      “Even the post Soviet economies that split from Russia paid off their USSR era debt.”

      You might want to read up on what Ukraine and Russia agreed about that.

    98. yesindyref2y says:

      Jings, this is fun.

    99. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi TInto Chiel.


    100. James says:

      None so damned as those who choose not to see.

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