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One question answered

Posted on June 23, 2015 by

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    1. 23 06 15 12:20

      One question answered | Speymouth

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    181 to “One question answered”

    1. John Sellars says:

      I thing a quick *zing* is appropriate.

    2. handclapping says:

      You could work a no detriment clause for the first year but after that it would be pure whatifery.

    3. gordoz says:

      It is still incredible to some of us how little, real critical analysis of ‘Smith nonsense’ is undertaken by our so called traditional media; (particularly TV).

      I think we all spotted that as a particular piece of bxllox, but thanks for pointing out Westminster smoke n mirrors yet again.

      Meanwhile all BT No voting Scots cheer ‘Yay & Hurrah’ for arrival of latest powers (?)

      Jeezuz ??

    4. Jim Thomson says:

      On top of that editorial tweak to the report, I’d be interested to find out what the contents of the draft that was submitted to Downing Street looked like in comparison to the tatty piece of scrap paper that came back north, and was adopted by the assembled worthies.

    5. Macart says:

      Yeah, undeliverable and always was.

      Still, the old mid term budget will help drive the point home. 🙁

    6. Brian Powell says:

      I assume LabLibs will be quizzed on this by the press.

      Of course they won’t be, because the LabLibCons and MSM want Scotland to be tied to the UK and dependent on the Barnett formula, whatever Westminster choose that to be.

    7. heedtracker says:

      Well here’s the author what wrote it all up but he’s too modest to take all the UKOK credit. Like he said throughout the referendum campaign, independence is not going to happen.

      Prof T’s tweets are usual tory boy sneers and smears on Scotland but his blogs full of good old unionist plop plops all over THE VOW fraud, because its the settled will of the Scots, lol

      https://twitter.com/proftomkins

      https://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/

      “Isn’t it time for the Scottish Government to stop playing games with devolution, to stop their stunts, and to show some respect to what, after all, is the settled will of the Scottish people?”

    8. Joemcg says:

      How can agreement with signatories be altered at the whim of the UK govt? Imagine the fun and games that would be taking place at this moment during the negotiations if we had voted yes. How do I get the feeling they would not be amicable?

    9. Stoker says:

      Rev wrote:
      “As usual, it’s taken a mere eight months or so for the mainstream press to catch up with reality. We look forward to them finally arriving at the rest of the conclusion sometime in spring 2016, possibly just slightly after the Scottish Parliament election.”

      Ooooo, you’re such a cynic!
      🙂

    10. Velofello says:

      A poll of Indyref No voters on events since the Indyref would be interesting.

    11. liz says:

      What amazes me is that there are still people out there who think we are going to get these additional powers that will make us “the most powerful devolved government in the world”. When are they going to ralise its all pish?

    12. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      So the Vow has been comprehensively proved to be complete and utter bullshit??

      Who saw that coming!? Apart from all of us obviously. 😉 😀

    13. Joemcg says:

      Waiting for the headline news-“scots sold a pup” “scots conned in to voting no” “watered down smith commission” “rerun the referendum” aye right.

    14. Les Wilson says:

      Where is Smith in all this? What does that “proud” Scot, have to say?

    15. Callum says:

      The irony is that the ScotlandBill will never be debated, reviewed or even agreed in Scotland’s parliament – after all, it is an agreed approach of bilateral funding and spending between two governments. Only one has a say it in it and that the bill is being voted on in two Westminster chambers where Scottish representatives are vastly diluted.

      This is why we needed to become independent.

    16. Stoker says:

      Joemcg wrote:
      “Imagine the fun and games that would be taking place at this moment during the negotiations if we had voted yes. How do I get the feeling they would not be amicable?”

      They wouldn’t be amicable because they’d be beneficial to us,
      just for a change!
      😉

    17. Luigi says:

      Velofello says:

      23 June, 2015 at 12:31 pm

      A poll of Indyref No voters on events since the Indyref would be interesting.

      Ach, they will stay in denial for a wee while, until it hits them hard in their pockets, as it soon will.

    18. Davy says:

      But surely the three scottish/unionist MP amigo’s are going to rise up in protest, and declare this is not the VOW we campaigned for.

      Mundell, Carmichael and the other one wee the round heed, must stand up for their countries interests, or were they actually telling porkies and now they have their earse’s firmly stuck to the gravy train for the next five years Scotlands interests are back below their own interests again.

      I hope all those fellow Scots who voted no in the referendum are proud of themselves as our country gets sold down the river yet again.

    19. Dr Jim says:

      I think by now most people with half their head missing must have cottoned on to the fact that the Smith Commission has only been produced as “The Grievance Document” and is the designed vehicle for Independence to be achieved in an easier manner by whipping up us lot

      Most likely, more and more I get the feeling we’re in a state of agreement with the Tories that Scotland is going to be Independent very shortly but that the ground work has to be laid out to take the rest of Scotland with us peacefully

      While Nicola Sturgeon is in the business of winning hearts and minds here, the team in Westminster is to take the Faux abuse on behalf of Scotland while at the same time preparing the way for the transition which I strongly believe the Tories are complicit

      The Labour Party in the past have always been the road block to Independence because Scotland was their Fiefdom and was important to their numbers Westminster wise
      That’s now over

      Maybe it’s just me but I think it’s on it’s way really quick
      But then again sometimes I forget where I park the car
      And sometimes my wife tells me I talk nonsense
      And sometimes she’s right

    20. The Man in the Jar says:

      Almost time to get those “Don’t blame me I voted YES” T Shirts printed.

    21. boris says:

      I am wondering who took the decisio to withdraw the “No detriment” clause and the reasoning why!! Something’s in the air and it doesn’t smell nice.

    22. Clootie says:

      …knowing what is coming doesn’t help! 🙁

      All those LibDem and Labour politicians who blared out “the best of both worlds” / “we are better together”.

      It is not those who voted NO that I blame. It is the Scottish politicians who misled the public / issued false data / worked with the Westminster/Whitehall machine to prevent the truth of Scotlands financial position being presented. Those who ensured the question on Scotlands membership of the EU was NOT asked. The united front on currency.

      The Civil service machine rolled out propaganda almost daily. Produced by those such as Danny Alexander and delivered by the BBC. Labour promoted the Whitehall lies with glee – The Labour Party machine WAS the NO machine. They used Tory money but they managed it. They organised it. Their activists wore the BT jackets and pushed the propaganda through the doors.

      Scottish Labour betrayed our nation and caused the pain and suffering that is about to be inflicted on those who are already suffering from the last Government.

      Labour enabled the Tories. Labour opened the door of austerity because we could have been a nation about to implement a fairer society under our control.

      …I’ll never forgive those who aligned against their nation and inflicted misery on their fellow citizens.

    23. ClanDonald says:

      What really beggars belief is the way “Scottish” Labour are fully behind these plans, knowing full well the massive damage that is about to be inflicted upon Scotland’s economy and the harm that this will bring to the most vulnerable people.

      It’s not difficult to work out Slab’s motivation. They appear to think that shrinking Scotland’s economy whilst handing us the responsibility to mitigate for Tory welfare cuts with only income tax rises to do so will have voters running back to Labour. Are they really that selfish and compassionless?

      Ach well, as long as UK labour are beneficiaries of Labour votes from Scotland it’ll all be worth it.

    24. R-type Grunt says:

      Great article Stu.

      @ Clootie.

      It’s not even the politicians who are to blame. The culpability for last year’s No vote lies firmly & squarely at the door of mass media. In particular the BBC, since we’re all forced to pay for it.

    25. Joemcg says:

      Clootie-I’m amazed none of that was mentioned in Slabs free hour long PPB last night. Strange that!

    26. cirsium says:

      @bookie from hell, 12.28pm
      here are both articles on the Moldovan fraud, one on the fraud and the other on the scottish connection.

      http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/06/the-bank-fraud-in-moldova-and-20000-opaque-british-corporations.html

      http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/06/scotland-the-moldovan-connection.html

      A YES vote would have removed us from the web of the spider which is the City of London and its servant Westminster. Financial regulation is a reserved matter so currently we have no redress.

      The following is an interview in English with the Prime Minister of Iceland, Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson, who has interesting things to say on financial regulation and monetary sovereignty.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSVeao1ENHg

    27. Colin Church says:

      The link to August 2014 article and the BTL comments are a real cold sweat flash back horror nightmare. The unfolding MSM onslaught recorded in real time.

      Threpnr in particular spot on with predictions.

      How stupid were half our population?

    28. Cherry says:

      OT sort of! Last night I did a lot of reading about Serco. These guys appear to be everywhere, and I honestly believe that they are behind every major company/corporation/bank/justice system and any other piece of the world they can manipulate. That also includes MSM look at this you tube RT piece.

      http://www.m.youtube.com/watch?v=ulP0QdvexFg

      Great piece of journalism today (as usual) shame the rest can’t be as honest you. Got my WBB love it and the thanks are mine and every other Scot who has been “enlightened” because of your great reporting of the facts as they are, not twisted to keep the public in the dark and voting for more of the same!

      Thank you just isn’t enough IMO 🙂

    29. De Valera says:

      So a No vote did mean no change after all. Fancy that.

    30. Iain More says:

      Well today I sat patiently whilst a rich Naw voter complained about the fact that his Naw voting rich mither might get hit by those undeclared as yet cuts.

      That was another ass I had the dubious pleasure of eventually telling to shut the eff up because he got what he and his frikkin mither frikkin voted for.

      Now as to that deid duck and lie called the Smith Commission. Well I can safely make a “VOW!” that will be kept and that is if anybody voted Naw then don’t darken my door if they are going to complain and whinge about what the Tories are doing and are going to do to them. I am not for listening anymore.

      I guess the Scots Nats will have to share top billing with those allegedly profligate Greeks for being bad, wicked and evil in the Brit Nat Media at the moment. Out of curiosity did anybody from Goldman Sachs ever go to prison as it seems they were allegedly behind the cabal that drove Greece into the single Currency in the first place.

    31. Will Podmore says:

      Clootie writes, “Labour enabled the Tories. Labour opened the door of austerity because we could have been a nation about to implement a fairer society under our control.
      … I’ll never forgive those who aligned against their nation and inflicted misery on their fellow citizens.”
      Our party the CPBML used to have a slogan, ‘Labour-Tory all the same, always play the bosses’ game’. Still true!

    32. Valerie says:

      Clootie at 1.44, well said.

      We do have to remember, a % did vote out of fear or confusion, and it was decades in the making. If the Scottish Labour party were telling you to do something, and you had no means of knowing they were lying, and you and your parents had always voted Labour, then it would be hard not to vote No, for a lot.

      I watched the programme last night on their downfall, and yes, there were a few truths in there, making them just look like ferrets in a sack, but the real damage that party has done in lying to an electorate, still has to see the light of day.

      So come on BBC Scotland – make a programme about all the statements made by Labour and BT, and show it beside the truth. This site is a good starting place, so most of the research is done.

      Clootie is right, Labour fronted almost all the lies, funded by the Tories, who shafted them the morning after with EVEL.

      Sickening.

    33. heedtracker says:

      Never mind the Rule Britnatia media, City spivs bet Brent barrel price will go back up soon, or they just look at year on year averages. Kerching!

      https://archive.is/4xGDx

      City spivs are not hard to understand. They’re a lot like dosh crazed lemmings.

      Mind tory boy’s Cammers and Osborne flogging Royal Mail for bugger all? RM price shot up as soon as the spivs were given them by Osborne, then almost instantly they flopped way below opening price, creeping back again now though, but if you can work out averages, you too can be a City of London slicker.

      Maybe that’s why red and blue tories like Crash and the Flipper prostrated itself at their spivy more money than god feet, any c_nt can do it.

      https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHWA_enGB626GB626&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=royal%20mail%20share%20price

    34. Luigi says:

      ClanDonald says:

      23 June, 2015 at 1:47 pm

      Are they really that selfish and compassionless?

      Are they really that stupid?

    35. Iain More says:

      When Osborne stands up on the July 8th then we will get to hear the sound of that first heavy axe swing and it will not only fall on the necks of the poorest and the working classes but I suspect that the middle classes will catch a lot of the blood and gore splatter from it as well in the coming years. The untouched Ultra Rich and the JKRs of the world and the UK in specific will just jump and scream about bad wicked evil anti English Scot Nats.

      I guess the Tories will be hoping that everybody and the Brit Nat Press and Media in particular will be distracted by Wimbles on that day.

    36. Luigi says:

      Just a wee reminder folks, that the red tories are down but not out. The BBC will do anything to try and restore their fortunes. There are still quite a few undeserving Labour MSPs, MEPs and councillors out there, waiting to be put out of their misery. No rest until the Labour party is completely degraded in Scotland. It’s not over until the fat lady sings. Keep the pressure on!

    37. Brian Powell says:

      ClanDonald

      What Labour seem to have not thought about is that after saying we have all the powers we need and Scotland is properly funded by Barnett, and they get into power, they can make no complaints about Westminster.

      So if their campaign against the SNP worked, they themselves, will have nowhere to go in explaining the cuts.

      They will have betrayed the public again.

    38. Marcia says:

      Luigi

      You are right, the BBC & STV are their life support systems.

    39. K1 says:

      I think it’s startlingly clear who and what Labour are, to anyone who wishes to understand what is taking place here. Labour are a front for the establishment. It simply can’t’ be otherwise. Those of you have actually been part of the Labour party must surely know this is the case.

      When I listened to Tommy Sheppard talking with Chunky Mark, telling his story about how he was ‘dropped’ from the Labour party, just after Blair came into power, because he was part of that group that wanted the ‘branch’ to become autonomous in light of devolution, It sunk deeply into my being. They have marginalised their own former core support for over a decade now, it just took the general public a bit longer to ‘get it’. And we all know why that is. The press/media have been complicit in deflection techniques that are worthy of the Orwellian analogies.

      We have been shafted, the rest of the UK have not understood this. Yet. The referendum merely showed the smoothness and ease with which they already work with the Toires, to a wider audience. When you watch the parliament now, to see our representative, you see it very clearly in that place too, it’s a game, a show, theatre. That’s it.

      All this navel gazing from Labour is just entertainment. There is absolutely no substance to any of them. All they care about are their jobs. That’s it. When you look at the history; the McCrone report, the 6000sq miles of coast, the corruption that exists within the party, ask yersel’ what’s the difference between them and the tories? There is none, they have all been ‘up to it’ for decades, and that includes all the other nasty stuff too.

      They have never represented anyone but themselves, and those that showed any signs of reflecting the natural egalitarian socially minded human beings that we are have been utterly sidelined, died too young, or bribed and manipulated by god only knows what.

      This is the establishment that are doing this to us.

      They don’t want a participative democracy.

      Too late. We are participating in our own fate/destiny now. And we hold the balance of power, we decide whether they stay or go.

      Come next year we take them out, then in 2017 we deal with the councils. The only effective way to do this is to vote SNP. Until we are free of them completely. For me, now, it’s the List and Constituent vote next year.

      I’ve listened (read) to James Kelly and others, the only tactical voting I will be doing until we are Independent, is voting SNP all the way.

    40. Alex Grant says:

      Where is the SNP communications campaign to get the facts on this across??

    41. Cadogan Enright says:

      WARNING

      BBC starting its campaign against Scottish Land reform

      misrepresentations started on Radio 4 at 5 tonight

    42. Terry says:

      After reading this and the links contained I feel sick – all over again. Looks like our only chance to avoid the revs scenario is for the SNP to win in 2016 and have a quick referendum – is this possible? And would we get a yes result? It’s that or UDI.

      When history writes this episode up it could be entitled “The Conning of a Nation”.

    43. msean says:

      Never believed any of it,who would believe those who called Yes voters nazis and inferred the nation was unviable for the previous three years? Smith commission was just a delayng tactic till the general election.

      Vote no,get less.

    44. Stoker says:

      @ K1 (5.31pm).

      Rapturous applause, especially the following part:

      “Come next year we take them out, then in 2017 we deal with the councils. The only effective way to do this is to vote SNP. Until we are free of them completely. For me, now, it’s the List and Constituent vote next year…the only tactical voting I will be doing until we are Independent, is voting SNP all the way.”

      No more LibLabCons – Lets wipe them out and take what is ours.

    45. Tinto Chiel says:

      K1 @5.31: well said, that man or woman.

      Is applause allowed?

    46. Robert Peffers says:

      @Davy says: 23 June, 2015 at 1:12 pm:

      “But surely the three scottish/unionist MP amigo’s are going to rise up in protest, and declare this is not the VOW we campaigned for. Mundell, Carmichael and the other one wee the round heed, must stand up for their countries interests, … “

      Ye speak fir yersel, Davy, an leave, “The Terrible Trio”, o numpties tae dae the same fir thirsels.

    47. Foonurt says:

      FranzFerdinandSparks

    48. Dr Jim says:

      SNP “Slammed” over inability to predict the future

      Sainsburys appear not to want to sell Scottish smoked Salmon anymore…Damn..
      After I’ve got my toilet rolls from Aldi’s I’m never out the place

      The BBC will be starting a petition next to “Save Labour” Now over to STV with Rhona and some more Labour just as soon as we’ve watched another wee political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party
      And now back to Jackie in the Labour&%”+@ Woops Studio
      Getting a wee bitty obvious now

    49. Thepnr says:

      @K1

      Loved your post it’s how I feel too with one exception. Of course I’m talking of the possibility of tactical voting.
      LibLabCon cannot be wiped out in Scotland without tactical voting.

      They will be severely damaged but an actual wipe out is actually impossible.

      In my view it is far too early to take a view on the possible means of achieving this. I hope I can better inform the readers of Wings nearer the time.

      I share your goal, together we may find a way.

    50. michaelc says:

      Any word from the noble lord on this yet?

      No?

      Thought not…

    51. StevieMcB says:

      We have to extract ourselves from neolib control before its too late.
      http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/06/04/ukrainians-dispossessed-americans-next-paul-craig-roberts/

    52. yesindyref2 says:

      The theory of “no detriment” is quite easy if it’s what it says it is. At the moment that powers and revenues pass over, the empirical calculations would show that neither party is worse off for that transfer.

      In addition, if one side loses out heavily for perhaps one year, there would be a compensatory mechanism to compensate one side or the other, so if oil prices hence revenues dropped, then Scotland gets a couple of billion, if they shoot up to $200 per barrel, then the UK gets a bit of pocket money. A reason by the way that the best time for FFA was end of last year, that would have been te “no detriment” cutoff price, it’s already potentially getting a bit less of a gain for Scotland as oil prices rise again.

      I like theory, it’s so practical (sounding). I guess however, you could call me in a previous life a sort of engineer. Bloody scientists.

    53. yesindyref2 says:

      @heedtracker
      Tomkins is a sad case. He used to have some very interesting articles in the earlier days of the referendum, sensible contra articles on most constitutional issues, where he did weigh up either side.

      Then he caught the Project Fear disease and he’s been wasted ever since. Nurse!

    54. Paula Rose says:

      Meanwhile keep working on those No voters – one by one we will win most of them round.

    55. ian m says:

      Labour were all in on the BT campaign because an independent Scotland was a loss of 59 potential MPs at Westminster.Their chances of forming a government without Scottish Labour MPs would be severely damaged.
      I know this is hard to believe but their motives were purely self serving.
      Conservatives want to hang on to the Oil money despite how they present themselves.
      All three unionist parties can not afford to have the government books opened.

    56. yesindyref2 says:

      Another irony is that we all had to be serious about the Vow, about holding their feet in the fire (in rather than to),, but in our heart of hearts we all knew Scotland would be conned blind, and the the media wouldn’t pay a blind bit of notice, in fact they’d blame the SNP for it as, errrrr, it must be their fault. Oh joys. But now we can relax and let rip, and go back to calling for, wait for it, wait for it, Indy Ref 2.

    57. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I think that enough will have taken place at Westminster, by the time that the SNP get down to putting their manifesto for 2016 together, that there will be multiple “substantial changes”, to warrant the inclusion of a commitment to IndyRef2 in that manifesto.

      We won’t need a two year build up – all the FACTS are out there. The only thing that needs confirmed, in the short term, is that we will have a Scots Pound, following Sterling. “What currency” was a major sore point with NO voters.

      It needs us all to continue with the gentle persuasion, making former NO voters question the reasons why they voted NO and pointing out all the backtracking on the Unionist “promises” that have occurred.

      SNP/Green/SSP/Solidarity majority in Hollyrood next year and we need a quick announcement that the referendum will take place – whether or not the Tories approve – on 15th September, 2016.

      Allow the 18 months to get stuff sorted out and we could be looking at Independence Day as being 15th March, 2018.

      Read like a plan?

    58. mike cassidy says:

      This seems a good thread to provide more evidence of just how much we are treated like ignorant scum by those in power.

      This was the reply I got after asking the Scottish Office about the availability of the leaked memorandum report.

      Thank you for your enquiry, and apologies for the delay in responding. Cabinet Office published their conclusions of the leak enquiry at the following link https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scotland-office-memorandum-leak-cabinet-office-inquiry-statement and nothing further will be published.

      Cabinet Office colleagues have advised that it is not possible to publish further details about the leak investigation which could assist a person to avoid detection in the future.

      Moira Vance |Correspondence Manager | Scotland Office | Dover House| Whitehall | London | SW1A 2AU
      http://www.gov.uk/scotland-office | Twitter:@ScotlandOffice

      Lots of thoughts on this beyond the obvious laughing at the pathetic excuse.

      For example, it completely blows away liarmundell’s defence – because if we can’t read it, there is no reason to believe his claim of exoneration.

      No idea if this will be of interest to those campaigning against liarcarmichael. Maybe they have legal grounds for demanding its release.

    59. fionan says:

      OT An appeal for News shaft! Please folks go to indiegogo and help the Newsshaft team meet their target. They are running out of time and less than half way there. Thanks to them, and their all-night broadcast, I and others abroad were able to follow the GE live as it happened. They are doing a great job and are an important part of the new Scottish media – we need all the media initiatives we can get. I’ve just donated what I could, if everyone donated even a very small amount, they could continue their good work.

    60. Iain More says:

      OFT

      Could somebody define what constitutes a progressive landowner for me?

      I almost choked watching the Brit Nat version of the world on STV tonight. I would suggest that most of them that own most of Scotland’s land are reactionary Brit Nationalist gits.

    61. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      23 June, 2015 at 7:52 pm
      @heedtracker
      Tomkins is a sad case.

      He’s not though. He’s a hard core rightwing constitutional law expert/academic. He will have authored THE VOW Smith Commission farce and its him and his colleagues who written it to cause as much damage as possible to Scottish democracy, SNP Scots.gov and the whole Scottish economy, in any order.

      He’s the archetypal British shill defending British power in Scotland. He’s been rewarded by UKOK unionists with special advisorship to Fluffy Mundell, who will need all the legal advice he can get.

      His most aggressive but only attack on SNP Scots.gov? “We gave you what you wanted, now shadap and use it for this ridiculous Scottish socialist paradise you keep promising but are clearly completely incapable of without teamGB….”

      eg

      Prof T loved rancid The Graun this weekend

      @KevinMcKenna63 quite rightly pulls no punches http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/21/fair-equal-scotland-not-so-you-would-notice?CMP=share_btn_tw
      Embedded image permalink

    62. Mealer says:

      Briandoonthetoon 7.56
      Sounds like a plan,but we’ll need an awful lot more boots on the ground than last time round.A lot of those 110,000 SNP members will have to get round the doors and make sure we get more of the non voters to fill in a postal vote.And we’re going to need an awful lot more pipers.Thousands more.Lots to do!

    63. packhorse pete says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon

      “Allow the 18 months to get stuff sorted out and we could be looking at Independence Day as being 15th March, 2018.

      Read like a plan?”

      This is pure fantasy. We CANNOT even contemplate another referendum until the polls are showing at least 60%. And I’m sure the SNP know this.

    64. Paula Rose says:

      @ Iain More

      Could somebody define what constitutes a progressive landowner for me?

      Me!

    65. annie says:

      O/T just a thought with the JK Rowling hoo ha going on in Twitter and Bella, I read that Iain Murray was one of the highest spending Labour candidates, in excess of £37k, three times his SNP opponent. Firstly are candidates obliged to publish campaign donations over a certain amount and secondly is JK Rowling in Iain Murray’s constituency in Edinburgh?

    66. Joemcg says:

      Maybe 3 years time is ample. As a few posters have said osbourne’s cuts will have taken effect by then. I do agree however we will need to be leading in a few opinion polls to make certain. Think it’s still 50:50 at the moment.

    67. paulTgeist says:

      Thepnr says – “An actual wipe out is actually impossible.”

      Bollox! Given time anything is possible if done correctly.

    68. IvMoz says:

      I disagree that a referendum should take place in 2016, I would suggest 2020.

      The reason for this is demographics.

      Support for independence is stronger in the young and noticeably less amongst older voters.

      I’m not being harsh, but delaying the referendum a few years will mean less elderly voters & more younger voters coming onto the electoral roll in the intervening years.

      I think this is what could push us up to the 55/60% mark.

    69. heedtracker says:

      Another evening of rancid The Graun trolling their Scotland region, this time on the 300 year overdue Scottish Highland ownership reform.

      Usual red tory the Graun “angered” and “Sturgeon accused” etc but check out his progressive liberal teamGB broadsheet readership btl CIF. lol

      https://archive.is/pVQT0

      BrianMRiches tuxedocat 12m ago

      0
      1
      Wait up. The anger will come from the people who bought, and paid for, land to see the scotch nazi party stealing it. Wait a bit more and see the scotch begging the UK to send in armed troops to arrest and imprison the scotch nazi party. The scotch nazi party didn’t tell the truth, did it?

      Maybe the scotch could get a simple choice. Accept UK law or watch the underground nuclear explosions that will permanently separate scotchland from real countries.

    70. Thepnr says:

      @Mealer

      Well said, 110,000 this or 56 that means nothing unless those that are committed actually do something.

      I believe 100% that the 56 are committed, not so sure about the ordinary members. However, there is no way that anyone could ever expect anyone who joined a party to become an “activist”. I’m positive that each will do as best they can do, just contributing funds to the coffers makes a difference.

      A rallying call though to those that can spare a bit more time at the sharp end does no harm.

      You win nothing unless you beat them in the fight first.

    71. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi packhorse pete.

      Do you KNOW what the opinion polls are going to be saying at the start of May, 2016?

      Obviously, an indication towards 60% in favour of Indy would support my previous suggestion but, we can’t know what the polls will say until they publish, next year.

      Gotta be positive…

    72. caz-m says:

      It wasn’t that long ago that the polls were sitting at,
      30% for Independence,
      70% against.

      We have come a long way in a very short period of time.

      So if the latest figures are sitting at 50-50, then I don’t think it will take much to gain another 10% in favour of Independence.

      And remember, to win the Referendum, you only need 50% of the turn out, plus one vote.

      A couple of years of Tory rule will swing it for us. It will all start to happen on 8th July, when Osborne announces the first of many cuts that are coming down the line like an express train.

    73. Thepnr says:

      @paulTgeist

      Thepnr says – “An actual wipe out is actually impossible.”

      Bollox! Given time anything is possible if done correctly.>/i>

      What do you mean by “done correctly”. Simple fact is based on the 2015 GE results Labour still have around 25% of the vote and the Tories 15% in Scotland.

      That is certainly high enough to win many of the list vote seats. I take it you disagree and will share your knowledge with us?

      Bollocks does not have an X in it, are you from scotland?

    74. Lollysmum says:

      O/T
      A group of Lindsay Jarrett’s (Indy climber)friends have set up a trust fund to look after Lindsay during the time she has left & her children after she passes. They have now launched a crowdfunding appeal to kickstart the trust fund & to buy Lindsay a van so that she can get out during the time she has left. Please help if you can.

      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lets-indigogo-for-the-indie-climber#/story

    75. Cadogan Enright says:

      Anyway – just back from hurling (shinty) practice, and while at the field ‘phoned in the following points to the complaints desk about PM at 5pm on radio 4

      1. Headline intimated that Scottish Government were trying to stop foreigners owning land was simply false

      2. Detail report forgot to mention that Westmonster passed 3 far more radical land reform bills from 1885 after the Irish Parliamentary Party won the balance of power up to 1903 (did not mention the Home Rule Bills)

      3. That these estates in their present form were created in large part via the ethnic cleansing of their mostly Gaelic-speaking inhabitants.

      4. That the SNP should be given credit for advancing the needs of local communities against those of backward looking absentee landlords – something British politicians had resisted for 120 years after the same thing had been forced though in Ireland

    76. North Chiel says:

      How about a “Home rule/FFA mandate “in SNP 2016 manifesto .If majority
      SNP gov elected, give the Westminster Tory gov 12
      Months to devolve ALL powers ( except only foreign affairs& defence) to Edinburgh.
      If the 12 month deadline is not delivered then SNP should cite this as ” material change
      In circumstances” and immediately call for 2nd Full Independence referendum ,
      with or without permission of Westminster.

    77. ronnie anderson says:

      @ K 1 christ you were awe nice n calm on Sat,noo you,ve goat the boxing gloves oan lol.

    78. Famous15 says:

      Osbornes budget has been mentioned.

      I fear that if the Scottish Government gets power to mitigate welfare cuts and ANY attempt is made to do so it will destroy the Scottish Government.

      Mitigation powers are a dreadful trap.

      We must resist cuts by massive demonstrations and not by vainly attempting to rob Peter to pay Paul as other services will be diminished.

    79. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      The road ahead is at least, a 6 lane dual carriageway.

      There are so many possibilities…

      From 19th April:-

      The Scottish National party leader, Nicola Sturgeon, has said it would not be democratic to rule out another referendum on Scottish independence in the next parliament.
      Sturgeon said she had no plans for another referendum “at this stage” and that something “substantive” would have to change that was bigger than just a poll showing a fresh shift towards pro-independence feeling.

      https://archive.is/huURj

      Personally, I think all the broken “vows” will be “substantive” enough.

    80. Paula Rose says:

      Getting a cuddle from ronnie anderson makes my life worthwhile.

    81. Thepnr says:

      @Famous15

      I am dreading Osbornes budget in three weeks time in the belief that it will once again pour more misery on those least prepared against it.

      We don’t need leaks of the budget now to know what it will contain for the losers. There will be winners, his friends and the Bullingdon boys.

      We can fight on against this injustice and I expect the SNP to do that for me in their reply to that cunts budget.

      We are where we are but will not lie down, let’s just keep doing what were doing and …

      I can’t predict the future.

    82. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, I agree, talking to the NO voters in a non-pushy way. But also I think getting empathy with them, and one of the best ways is – to agree with them where possible, even and perhaps especially if it’s aginst the SNP on fairly minor points. The car smoking thing for instance is cross-YES or NO, some on one side, some on the other.

      I thought the same as McKenna about the crowdsourcing ideas for a “fair and just” Scotland, and now is the time to be critical, as critical as we like. There’s no ref right now, the GE is over, there’s 56 MPs to take care of Westminster, and unlike the GE campaign which started on 19th September for us, Holyrood won’t start really going until March or so.

      I’ve seen a few interesting things from staunch NO voters, and this few months for me is about opening minds, not trying to change them.

    83. Rock says:

      K1,

      “For me, now, it’s the List and Constituent vote next year.

      I’ve listened (read) to James Kelly and others, the only tactical voting I will be doing until we are Independent, is voting SNP all the way.”

      Well said.

      Tactical voting is a risk which SNP supporters must avoid at all costs.

      Only the SNP can get us independence.

      If the SNP don’t get a majority, both the Greens and Socialists will make demands that cannot be met and will hinder our cause.

      They are as much anti SNP as the unionists.

      True democracy can only come after independence.

      Until then, it has to be SNP for both the constituency and list votes.

    84. paulTgeist says:

      @ Thepnr – You say bollocks does not have an X in it.

      I agree that is why i typed bollox.

      There is no reason why we can’t fill Holyrood with Greens, SSP,
      SNP and Independent types. It may not happen for 2016 but it is a very possible and realistic longer term goal.

      Yes i am from Scotland. Born, bred and dead in Scotland.

      Now, if you don’t mind i have a very busy night ahead and need to prepare for some spook hauntings and creating havoc.

      Sleep tight fellow Wingers

    85. Paula Rose says:

      Rock honey – are you cognisant with the word “pish”?

    86. yesindyref2 says:

      I’d suggest planning something big, very big, for next year on 24th March 2016, which is apparently a Thursday. Perhaps spreading over the weekend as well.

    87. Thepnr says:

      It takes someone with an open mind to see the big picture.

      I am confident that those that voted Yes in the referendum are of an open mind. Party politics is secondary to the ultimate goal, this will be recognised before the 2016 Holyrood vote.

      Keep an open mind and just wait until things are so much clearer next year. Than we can debate the pros and cons of a tactical vote.

    88. Cadogan Enright says:

      I wonder at rocks motivation

      Anyone who sees Labour or Tory MSPs getting in on the list vote as preferable to Greens or Socialists in the context of another likely SNP majority government either does not understand how the list works, or is a Unionist Troll

    89. Rock says:

      Paula Rose,

      “Rock honey – are you cognisant with the word “pish”?”

      I am not a Green hypocrite like you.

      Was it right for the Greens to field a candidate against the SNP which enabled the Tory viceroy of Scotland to win his seat?

    90. Paula Rose says:

      @ Cadogan Enright – think we’ll go with unionist troll.

    91. Capella says:

      Interesting spat brewing over repeal of the Human Rights Act and consent from the Scottish Parliament. LPW has the details.

      http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/hra-repeal-lets-make-gove-walk-burning.html

    92. Rock says:

      Cadogan Enright,

      “Anyone who sees Labour or Tory MSPs getting in on the list vote as preferable to Greens or Socialists in the context of another likely SNP majority government either does not understand how the list works, or is a Unionist Troll”

      Politically speaking, the likes of Dugdale, Davidson and Rennie, not to mention Baillie, are actually unwittingly doing more for the cause of independence than Patrick Harvie.

      Patrick Harvey did not miss any opportunity to attack the SNP during the referendum campaign.

      The Greens and Socialists saw it preferable to stand candidates against the SNP during the recent Westminster election.

      Luckily only one unionist MP got in as a result, but the one which we would have really liked to see defeated.

      I don’t want any unionists in there, but I want zero risk to an SNP majority government.

      As Morag has previously pointed out, the slightest drop in the constituency vote would make it essential for an SNP vote on the list vote to get a majority SNP government.

      I am only cautioning SNP supporters of the risk of not giving the list vote to the SNP as well.

      If you are a Green or Socialist supporter, you can vote tactically as you wish.

    93. K1 says:

      Hey Ronnie, ah didnae see you on Saturday, I wisnae there!

      Huv ah goat a doppleganger? 😉

    94. Dr Jim says:

      The way things are going there may be no need for a Referendum
      If Scotland wipes out the Unionist parties at the Holyrood Election an agreement of dissolution of Union between both Parliaments is perfectly possible given that 56 MPs now represent Scotland on the basis of an agreement of no mandate on Independence

      Should Scotland return an overall majority SNP vote again for Holyrood on the basis of Scotlands desire for the Scottish Parliament as permanent and sovereign, an agreement can in fact be reached

      It should be remembered that a Referendum is not binding on the Westminster Parliament it is only classed as an advisory and they may not accept the result
      We had that stunt pulled on us before remember

      I posted earlier that I thought deals were being done at the moment and my sense is that there are already separations of responsibility going on between both Governments

      You have tomorrows papers full of Nicola Sturgeons refusal to pay the Scottish portion of the Queens Stipend which is around 2 million quid
      The Land Reform Act which has just scared the rich folk shitless
      I do believe there is more going on here

    95. bookie from hell says:

      Just watched Fall of Labour

      The Labour spokesman who said the Weir donations outspent Better Together

      LIE

      BBC miss out 100k + new SNP membership £8 a month = 800k

    96. Paula Rose says:

      Good idea Rock – lets use this thread to talk about something else. Away you twat.

    97. call me dave says:

      Herald had this about Queenie’s refurbishment costs. But it disappeared just after I archived it. Hope it works.

      BBC Radio5 reporting the palace not been decorated or had any electrical wiring etc since the 1960’s.

      https://archive.is/Rv3gW

    98. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Brian Doonthetoon at 10.30

      “Personally, I think all the broken “vows” will be “substantive” enough.”

      Agreed

    99. X_Sticks says:

      @Lollysmum says:

      “A group of Lindsay Jarrett’s (Indy climber)friends have set up a trust fund to look after Lindsay during the time she has left & her children after she passes. They have now launched a crowdfunding appeal to kickstart the trust fund & to buy Lindsay a van so that she can get out during the time she has left. Please help if you can.”

      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lets-indigogo-for-the-indie-climber#/story

      Thanks for that Lollysmum. Only to glad to make a donation. The courage Lindsay has shown is an inspiration and we should do anything we can help.

    100. ben madigan says:

      o/T – change of subject as someone requested!!!!

      i don’t know if Scotland has the same issues with bonfires on the night of the 11th July (before the big orange order marches on the 12th) as northern ireland has.
      if anyone is interested here’s an insight into the Unionist/Loyalist mindset in NI
      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/11th-night-bonfires-in-northern-ireland/

    101. Tackety Beets says:

      Recently there have been more social murmurings .
      A friend stated .
      “Most of my NO voting work colleagues are p££d off as they voted NO as they thought more powers to SGvt was a good compromise”

      Maybe the polls suggesting very few Voted NO on the basis of more powers are a bit fudilymundelly too .

      Anyway more amo on link if you missed it .

      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/new-figures-confirm-that-scotland-would-have-been-8-3-billion-better-off-an-independent-country/

    102. Tackety Beets says:

      Sorry meant to add ,

      The removal of ” No detriment” will allow WM to massage things to have an actual true detrimental effect on Scotland and there will be SFA we can do about it .

      I’m with you StevieMcB and Karen Dunbar

      ” A smell S///te”

      It was posted and agreed by Most of us on here last year ” A NO vote means Scotland will be in for a severe thrashing in the next few years” and so it is about to unfold .
      As yer man said in Braveheart as the Englais charged ” Hold , Hold ……….hold ” and you know what happened next .

    103. john king says:

      @ME 🙂

      O/T
      Whaurs Eleanor Bradford these days?
      Aa hope she husnae caught onythin hoverin aroon they toxic Scottish hospitals like a New York ambulance chaser! 🙁

    104. gerry parker says:

      Call me Dave at 12:35.

      And the Grun says this.

      https://archive.is/FPKvK

    105. Roll_On_2015 says:

      .
      OT – Breaking News

      The Tories have come up with a fantastic way to reduce ‘Child Poverty’. Instead of putting money in the system to reduce the number they intend to Gerimander change the way the statics are calculated.

      Tory plan to redefine child poverty as figures set to show first rise in decade

      Just one thought: That implies that child poverty rose in 2005, eight years into the last Labour Government.

      2005 was also the year that saw the start of another rise that started under Labour – Youth unemployment:

      Graphical overview
      Youth unemployment during the NuLabour government.

      By the way it was David Miliband who spilled the beans on NuLabour

      Remember that this was set in a time that Labour was spraying money into black holes all over the place.

      Note: Must remember to ask Duncy Hatstand what the feckin hell Labour have against our kids and young people?

    106. Capella says:

      @ gerry parker
      what a strangely schizoid article that Guardian piece on the Crown Estate is. The title and first paras spin the lie. The following part spells out the truth. Quite bizarre.

    107. Capella says:

      @ john king
      I think they’ve moved on to “Scotland’s failing schools” before the summer holidays spoil that topic. There’s also “Scotland’s failing justce system” and “Scotland’s failing dualling of the A9” to fill in the gap.

    108. Scotspine says:

      SNP badtastic on BBC Scotland today.

      “FM has linkss to vile Cybernats”.

      Wankers.

    109. Giving Goose says:

      LBC Radio on about Scotland cutting money to the Monarchy. Maddox was on giving his expert view. Guy from the Daily Mail on as well. Hot potato stuff for your average Londoner (or so we are expected to believe).

    110. Capella says:

      Peter Jukes comment on the sad demise of BBC drama since the early 90s
       ” I first started writing drama in the early nineties when channel controllers, until then just schedulers, were only beginning to intervene in commissioning to shape channels in their own image … Individual drama departments – series’, single play strands, serials, historical dramas – all had their own commissioning budgets.  The regions were also independent then, and something rejected by TV centre in London could still turn out to be a hit through BBC Birmingham, Manchester, Wales, Northern Ireland, or Scotland.”  
       

      https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourbeeb/peter-jukes/still-failing-after-all-these-years

    111. Almannysbunnet says:

      She who purrs is worried that she is going to lose her Scottish crown estate money. I suggest she does a Scottish crowd funder instead. She will find out how truly popular she is, it worked for wings.
      Come to think of it the whole royal budget should be raised through crowd funding. Much more democratic don’t you know. To paraphrase her purrness “I really think the Quine should think carefully about it in future.”

    112. Robert Kerr says:

      Aye, Almannysbunnet, Lillibet could have been Our Queen. Methinks she purred too much.

    113. schrodingers cat says:

      ot, if there is a topic anymore

      wingsoverscotland.com/saying-what-everyones-thinking/

      schrodingers cat says:
      2 April, 2015 at 10:45 am
      @Grouse Beater

      in 1997, the tories got wiped out. for 18 years now, their support has stayed fast at 15%

      in scotland, the far right has coalesed under the ukip banner but remains at 5%
      the remaining 5% who still vote libdem are of the union jack underpant wearing variety

      25%, nothing anyone here can say or do will make them vote snp or yes.

      that leaves 30% who currently still vote labour.(25+30?? ring any bells??). we need 10-15%, half, to cross the floor. some may have already done so which is why we see polls of 50/50 concerning independence. 50/50 is heartening, but nicola will not propose another referendum next year unless yes is on 55-60%.

      of these 30% labour voters, some are undoubtably of the union jack underpant variety….the question is how many?. those that are not are our target group of voters…..10-15%??? it isnt a lot

      actual may result
      tories 14.9%
      libdems 7%
      ukip 3%
      Labour 24,9%
      SNP 50%

      🙂
      how did all your predictions do ?

    114. ronnie anderson says:

      @ K1 If you dont wear ah leather jaikit ,hiv black hair,wear glesses, then its no you, ah wiz thinking of its CrazyCat LoL.

      Am always getting names misstooked up,you,s,ll need tae start wearing name tags when we meet ( roll of labels n markers will be provided at the badge table), or wear Your named Wings badges,sorted.

    115. cearc says:

      Almannysbunnet,

      You beat me to it. I was just going to suggest that if giving money to the queen is so popular she could launch an annual Indigo fundraiser. Perhaps the SG could run one for the scottish contribution.

      The Graun reports, ‘ Reid said: “The Queen, the royal family and the household continue to provide excellent value for money: at 56p per person annually.”

      Personally I think the formula – no.of Royal hingers-on x 56p sounds – like a pretty fair deal.

      Ach no, that’s not what he meant is it?

    116. Joemcg says:

      56p per head of population annually is still 56p too much.

    117. ronnie anderson says:

      Bbc Scot call Kay with the E,

      Richard D North {westminster a palace of freedoms throughout the world} I doupt the People of Deigo Garcia would agree with him. & again I did,nt get through to Kay with the E.

    118. west wales says:

      On Scotland Tonight last night there was a studio debate about the Land Reform Bill and Joan McAlpine took part on a link from STV’s Edinburgh studios. Somehow the lighting made her look incredibly pale.

      In the Commons yesterday Alex Salmond questioned a Treasury Minister several times during the debate on the European Finance Bill. Each time Alex started a question the microphones failed to pick up his opening words.

      We all remember the technical difficulties a wee while ago when Angus Robertson was being interviewed from his constituency on the Andrew Marr Show.

      Are the gremlins confirmed supporters of the Union?

    119. Les wilson says:

      All this stuff rising that old buildings in London are in need of restoration ie Westminster, Buckingham Palace etc.
      Make no mistake Scotland will have to pay it’s share.

      We get no direct benefit from these any more than we do from all the London infrastructure we contributed to.

      Westminster as per the government, COULD be housed anywhere big enough. Why we need this huge old building which indeed houses the most corrupt and anti democratic institutions is an enigma.

      Buckingham Palace is an old grand building which benefits not only the Queen but also London itself, prestige is everything and of course brings in tourists.

      In this age of robbing from the poor, we are all expected to contribute to the vanity of London.
      If you think these are all we contribute to, well they have plenty more.
      What about our own iconic old Royal High School building in Edinburgh, which has laid empty for years, no UK help with that building.

      Shows how their needs will always be more important than our needs. Austerity,of course, but not for elites needs, they must be fed. Something we need changed.

    120. Joemcg says:

      Les-aye probably THE most obvious unfairness in this supposed equal union is just compare the two capitals. Edinburgh is a toytown compared to London. Why was that allowed to happen over 300 years if we are an equal partnership? How can no voters be happy with that?

    121. Les wilson says:

      Joemcg says:

      The Chinese called Goldman Sachs ” The Great Vampire Squid!”
      We have our own version, and it is called London.Change that for Westminster should you wish.

    122. ann says:

      I’d have Edinburgh over London any day of the week.

      For a city, Edinburgh in my honest opinion is beautiful. Not too big, not too small.

      You don’t have far to walk between major attractions and from the Castle and Arthurs Seat there are 360 degree views to die for, and let’s be honest, it’s not called the Athens of the North for nothing.

    123. scunner says:

      @ Scotspine 8.10

      Daily Heil also going for the “Nicola personally knows vile Cybernats” line.

      I had to reach past some old biddy at the paper stand who was trying to read this obvious crap to get my National.

      I really don’t understand how their readership’s heeds work if they believe a single word that rag prints.

    124. Harry McAye says:

      Daily Mail’s headline south of the border is excellent – “Labour Peer Raped Boys in Parliament” but up here far, far more important that Nicola Sturgeon seems to have engaged with “vile cybernats” online. I just scanned the front page but I gather she responded to someone I’ve seen on twitter who has the second part of their name as @yesthatcher’s dead. Of course that part is not in bold and is easily missed, which will have been the FM’s mistake. Can that Scottish edition sink any lower?

    125. Toobs says:

      Move the UK gov toa business park easily accessed from the M4 in Berkshire and flog the prim London development land to Russian oligarchy. It’s the plan for everything else because we simply must because Giddy tells us.

      As for der Kveen…Ashby-de-la-Zouch is where she can go live. And the tax payer can get a pretty sum on her palace rather than a bill for it. She can still be queen, just she can live iin what the DWP think iis a suitable house for an old lady who didn’t work all hher life.

    126. Capella says:

      Why Berkshire? If it is the UK parliament then it ought to be in the centre of the UK i.e. Kelso.

      England could have her own devolved parliament in Westminster if they want and pay for the upkeep.

    127. Fergus Green says:

      I would prefer to opt out of paying 56p to support the monarchy and would prefer to invest this money in a nutritious Snickers bar. Can anyone advise me on how I should proceed?

    128. Jet says:

      Rock says
      I agree
      Vote snp ,1,2,3
      1= constituency
      2= list
      3= local council

      Only a huge snp vote will show that we stand together
      And will not go away.
      If you want to vote green ssp that’s a personal
      Thing and I have no problem with it
      Only the snp will make a indapendant scotland
      Happen in our lifetime

    129. Toobs says:

      @Capella

      Business parks within reach of the M4 in Berkshire only because it was the most tedious location I could think of 😉 I was sort of thinking of the TV series the office.

      But iin all seriousness if we have to flog every other UK asset, why not all that prime development land in central London?

    130. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dr Jim says: 24 June, 2015 at 12:19 am:

      “The way things are going there may be no need for a Referendum”

      That’s what I’ve been pointing out for ages, Dr Jim. With 56 of the 59 seats at Westminster we have the situation prevailing that Westminster has no mandate to govern in Scotland. The claim that Westminster has sovereignty over Scotland is not born out as Scot’s Law says that the people are sovereign. The fly in the ointment is that the people have not specifically mandated their MPs to dissolve the Union, (Yet).

      “It should be remembered that a Referendum is not binding on the Westminster Parliament it is only classed as an advisory and they may not accept the result
      We had that stunt pulled on us before remember”

      Matter of fact a referendum IS binding under Scottish Law as, (once again), the people are sovereign.

      “You have tomorrows papers full of Nicola Sturgeons refusal to pay the Scottish portion of the Queens Stipend which is around 2 million quid”

      Which is MSM balderdash. The SG has immediately denied the claim. All grist to the mill to convince the Scots Buts they have been lied to for years.

      “The Land Reform Act which has just scared the rich folk shitless”

      About time too. We have been talking about this scandal all my life, but more so since John Major exempted the estates from paying rates.

    131. Luigi says:

      Dr Jim says:

      24 June, 2015 at 12:19 am

      The way things are going there may be no need for a Referendum If Scotland wipes out the Unionist parties at the Holyrood Election an agreement of dissolution of Union between both Parliaments is perfectly possible given that 56 MPs now represent Scotland on the basis of an agreement of no mandate on Independence

      Should Scotland return an overall majority SNP vote again for Holyrood on the basis of Scotlands desire for the Scottish Parliament as permanent and sovereign, an agreement can in fact be reached

      It should be remembered that a Referendum is not binding on the Westminster Parliament it is only classed as an advisory and they may not accept the result
      We had that stunt pulled on us before remember

      I posted earlier that I thought deals were being done at the moment and my sense is that there are already separations of responsibility going on between both Governments

      You have tomorrows papers full of Nicola Sturgeons refusal to pay the Scottish portion of the Queens Stipend which is around 2 million quid The Land Reform Act which has just scared the rich folk shitless I do believe there is more going on here

      I’m in full agreement that we do not need another referendum to declare independence. No legal requirement. However, in political terms, NS did say that the recent GE was not about independence, so to go ahead and attempt separation at this stage would lead to another Irish experience, and none of us want that (I hope!).

      We can declare independence any time, but to do this peacefully, we need to take the people with us (by that I mean at least 60% of the population). At the moment support for/against independence has stabilised at 50:50. Another big push ought to do it, but timing will be crucial.

      Patience, everyone! We are close. Let’s not jump with our eyes closed. There are still a few steps to take on the way. These include keeping the pressure on Cameron for more powers, allowing the euroreferendum to takes its course (and let’s face it, no one knows how that will unfold, other than ripping the tory party apart), and, IMO the most important task to hand – to remove as many Labour MSPs, MEPs and councillors from Scotland as is democratically possible. The red tories are down but not out (and they still haven’t got the message by the sound of things). Total wipe-out of Labour is neither likely or necessary. They just need to be reduced further so that they are no longer a significant political force in Scotland.

      So, to summarise – hold back from another referendum for now and concentrate on these task to hand (red tory pest control). Messy work but it needs to be done IMO.

    132. Joemcg says:

      Luigi-I agree but “keep the pressure on Cameron for more powers?!” Not gonna happen. Dave says no.

    133. Fred says:

      Andy Wightman is excellent on the land issue in todays National, if there’s to be a permanent Land Commission Andy should be on it. He expressed reservations that outlawing the use of tax havens to register Scottish estates is not on the cards, which willdoubtless bring a sigh of relief at Buck House, but movement at long last on this issue is long overdue. Lord Margadale is spitting feathers over on Islay and Murdo Fraser is apparently “furious,” so this must be good news all round. No doubt Lord Astor is spluttering over the port when his useless son in law, Posh Dave, calls round for Sunday lunch, as he will now be liable to pay for tax for his Jura estate, imagine! 🙂

      The situation whereby one of Scotland’s biggest landowners, a Danish shopkeeper, pays land taxes to Copenhagen for his Highland estates while Inverness gets nothing is scandalous. The people of Scotland need educating on the land issue, they’ve been living on the reservations for so long now that contact with their roots has been lost. We have to aspire to the Scandinavian model where city folks take off to their But & Ben at every opportunity, remember The Broons? The Carbeth Hutters are an example to us all.

    134. Luigi says:

      Joemcg says:

      24 June, 2015 at 11:48 am

      Luigi-I agree but “keep the pressure on Cameron for more powers?!” Not gonna happen. Dave says no.

      Agreed, but we need to keep the pressure on – the soft NO voters need to see this act of betrayal played out every week until the penny finally drops.

    135. David Wardrope says:

      @ Fergus Green

      I would prefer to opt out of paying 56p to support the monarchy and would prefer to invest this money in a nutritious Snickers bar. Can anyone advise me on how I should proceed?

      You would proceed by adding 20p more 🙂

    136. Doug McG says:

      Fred 11.5o I’m pressing your up button.

      Newspaper media seems to be avoiding any reporting of this , speaks volumes.

    137. Les Wilson says:

      PMQ’s PM shows utter contempt for our elected MP’s. Answers nothing, but give half fudged reply to Angus Robertson then uses his anger to slate SNP ref FFA.

      Which was not the question put, but does these things knowing Robertson can no longer respond. Democracy? we are supposed to love this corrupt institution?,er, not!

    138. Luigi says:

      David Wardrope says:

      24 June, 2015 at 12:02 pm

      @ Fergus Green

      I would prefer to opt out of paying 56p to support the monarchy and would prefer to invest this money in a nutritious Snickers bar. Can anyone advise me on how I should proceed?

      You would proceed by adding 20p more 🙂

      A royalist licence fee? What a great idea. I bet those blue blood huggers would not be so happy to foot the bill if most of us opted out!

      I suspect the same would go for those who support Trident. If they like it, they can pay for it!

    139. bugsbunny says:

      IvMoz@9.11pm,

      Couldn’t agree with you more, either 2019 or 2021-23 would be an ideal date for a referendum on Scottish Independence. About 2020, I’m split on. If it were to be then, it would coincide with both the next Westminster election as well as the next Holyrood election. Too many irons in the fire perhaps?

      Stephen.

    140. gus1940 says:

      Was yon Margadale not a pal of Thatcher and did she not holiday with him on occasion?

      As regards HM moving out of Buck House what’s wrong with Windsor Castle or any of her other palaces?

      Is Windor not her oft stated favourite residence and did the family not spend most of WW2 there?

      On another tack the latest edition of Private Eye continues their fortnightly anti-SNP tirade with a hatchet job on Ian Blackford.

      Could The Rev and some of the other on-line sites not get together and produce a Scottish equivalent to The Eye.

      The template for a successful publication is there to see and there is no shortage of potential content.

      After all, The Eye was started on a shoestring and grew and grew until it became a national institution.

      I’m sure that plenty people would be prepared to crowd fund such a publication.

      We must remember that there is a limit to the audience which can be reached on the net.

      Can I suggest a title – ‘The Scottish Aye’

    141. mr thms says:

      #gus1940

      I like your suggestion.

      But think you should shorten the title to ‘The Aye’!

      It’s funnier.

    142. TJenny says:

      gus1940 – ‘Can I suggest a title – ‘The Scottish Aye’’… or even ‘Public Aye’. 😉

    143. Fred says:

      Prince Charles apparently has no intention of living at Buck House after his annointing, so another Weatherspoons opportunity.

      Balmoral is owned by a trust set up by one of the George’s, and as a trust never dies, there are no death duties. I believe this trust is registered on one of the Treasure Islands.

      Margadale? there was an unfortunate issue with eagles, or rather the lack of eagles, a few years back.

    144. Will Podmore says:

      The headline measure in Nicola Sturgeon’s first annual programme for government was indeed reform of land ownership, with plans to force shooting estates to pay business rates, and a warning that landowners who posed a barrier to sustainable development could expect unspecified government intervention.
      But in her Financial Times interview, Ms Sturgeon at once started to back down, saying that the state would only intervene in ‘very particular’ cases. So she said one thing to her supporters in Holyrood, and another to her masters of the FT – classic bourgeois politician’s hypocrisy.
      “This is not some kind of class warfare,” she told the FT. So radical – at the first whiff of opposition from the landowning class, she backs down.

    145. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana. I hadn’t read some of them, such as google / chrome, which was very interesting / worrying indeed. Also signed the petition.

    146. Nana Smith says:

      @Petra

      Glad you found it interesting Petra. I had lots of links for sharing but due to recent events I have somehow lost the file. I think I might have deleted it by mistake.

      Having been away from Wings for some time I’m not sure what stuff has already been linked.

    147. Fred says:

      Podmore, wou’re lurking at the thread ends spouting pish about subjects you know nothing about, yet again! Sporting estates haven’t paid taxes since John Major obliged his Tory chums, that will change without any particular intervention by the government. The details of the bill are not on the book as yet but Scotland’s landowners are not up in arms for no reason, this is the thin end of the wedge and they know it.

      You might be worth listening to if you didn’t come from a country where Joe Public can’t cross some toffs land without being chucked off, as I was last year in Yorkshire. As usual the English are never stuck for picking holes across the fence when their own country is a shithole.

    148. Rock says:

      Jet,

      “Only the snp will make a indapendant scotland Happen in our lifetime”

      But hypocrite Green posters like Paula Rose are hell bent on dividing the pro-independence vote so that Patrick Harvey can be King maker in a hung Scottish parliament.

      If we want to be sure of a majority SNP government, SNP supporters must vote for the SNP in both the constituency and list votes.

      Don’t be duped into giving away your list vote to other parties.

      The Greens and Socialists have both stated that independence is not their top priority.

    149. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Rock.

      I agree with your your premise that SNP supporters should vote for the SNP in both the constituency and regional votes next year.

      However, supporters of other parties cannot, and should not, be told how to allocate their votes. If Tommy Sheridan suggests that Solidarity voters should vote for the SNP in the constituency vote and for Solidarity in the regional vote, that is entirely up to him and Solidarity supporters.

      Similarly, you cannot presume to accuse Paula Rose, a Green supporter, who was a very active YES campaigner – and campaigned for an SNP vote in the recent GE campaign – of hypocrisy by intending to vote Green next year.

      You seem to be suggesting that ALL who believe in Scottish independence MUST vote for the SNP next year, in both votes.

      Strikes me as being a tad authoritarian.

    150. John Young says:

      Been enoying watching parliamentlivetv. What a magnificent speech by Philippa Whitford today on A&E targets in the NHS, informative, clear and sensible from someone who knew so much more than anyone else in the House. She was rightly praised by many other Mps.

      Excellent maiden speeches from Richard Arkless and Deidre Brock. So much quality in our 56.

    151. Paula Rose says:

      Rockcock as usual.

    152. Jim Thomson says:

      @John Young 10:13pm

      the link is http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/ff692179-ca58-4e0a-b0f1-7cc089e35596 and Philippa is on from 14:32

    153. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Some mentions of a hero I wrote abou ta couple of years ago

      wingsoverscotland.com/a-nationalist-hero/

    154. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Dave.

      Remember you need ‘http://’ to make your link clickable, coz the address doesn’t have a ‘www.’.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-nationalist-hero/

    155. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Cheers

    156. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      In that piece (Connolly) I wrote
      “The significance of this is easily missed. There is, in central Scotland particularly, a community who know and revere James Connolly. It is a large community and a critical one when one thinks of referendums. It is a nationalist community that doesn’t vote nationalist.”

      I think that has changed. We need to make sure the change is permanent

    157. Capella says:

      @ Dave McEwan Hill
      There are some excellent bio-videos of James Connolly in Youtube made by RTE and other Irish film makers. Also of the other members of the Irish Brotherhood e.g. Michael Collins, Eamon De Valera, Patrick Pearse etc.

    158. Will Podmore says:

      Fred, your ‘argument’ that my views are not worth listening to because I come from England is not very convincing. If I wrote that your views were not worth listening to because you come from Scotland, how would you describe that?

    159. Fred says:

      Will, your views on the rights of the working class & the land issue are not worth reading as the good people of England themselves have no rights to land access beyond “Keep to the Path”. That message was spelled out to me in Yorkshire three times in one week. Why anybody opts for a walking holiday in England is a mystery as walkers are certainly not welcome and at best tolerated, that country has the poorest access for ordinary folks in these islands. You can fight & die for England, as the Union Jack draped coffins bear witness, but don’t try any funny stuff like trying to walk over it. The carnage of two world wars has made little difference, forelock tugging is endemic.

      Time to put your own house in order before handing out advice to others. The fact that a so-called Socialist like yourself is not enraged at the present set-up, speaks volumes.

    160. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,

      “Similarly, you cannot presume to accuse Paula Rose, a Green supporter, who was a very active YES campaigner – and campaigned for an SNP vote in the recent GE campaign – of hypocrisy by intending to vote Green next year.”

      Paula Rose is a Green guilty of rank hypocrisy for cheering the election of 56 SNP MPs on this site while at the same time defending the Greens’ standing of candidates against the SNP in the undemocratic Westminster election.

      Apart from losing almost all their deposits, what did the Greens achieve? Would their funds not have been better spent during the democratic 2016 Scottish election?

      If the Greens had not stood against the SNP, it is very likely that the Tory Viceroy of Scotland would have lost to the SNP.

      I have never called Paula Rose a hypocrite for intending to vote Green next year.

      You are free to be her sycophant if you wish, but get your facts right.

    161. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,

      “You seem to be suggesting that ALL who believe in Scottish independence MUST vote for the SNP next year, in both votes.”

      I have made it very clear that my suggestion is to SNP supporters.

      I want zero risk to an SNP majority, therefore SNP supporters must give both their votes to the SNP to avoid any risk.

      The likes of Paula Rose are trying to dupe SNP supporters into giving their list vote to the Greens.

      The Greens leader Patrick Harvie is as much anti-SNP as the unionists, and independence is not his top priority.

      I don’t want a hung parliament where the SNP has to rely on Green or Socialist MSPs.

    162. Paula Rose says:

      Rock – do you really want to go through this all over again? I will if you like, but suggest we use Quarantine rather than an active thread. Maybe we have misunderstood each other or maybe not – do you know how to find Quarantine? Others may wish to spectate.

    163. Paula Rose says:

      Yes Rock – the link works, ta tackety boots xx

    164. Rock says:

      Paula Rose,

      “Rock – do you really want to go through this all over again? I will if you like, but suggest we use Quarantine rather than an active thread.”

      This thread is two days old and it is not too long before midnight.

      Why don’t you come clean once and for all instead of trying to hide in Quarantine?

      Was is not wrong for the Greens to stand candidates against the SNP in an undemocratic Westminster election where they had absolutely no chance of winning?

      Do you not regret that if the Greens had not stood against the SNP, the Tory Viceroy of Scotland might well have been defeated?

      If Tommy Sheridan could advise his party’s supporters to vote for the SNP, why couldn’t Patrick Harvey?

      Patrick Harvey has an enormous ego, is as much anti-SNP as the unionists and independence is not his top priority.

      Why should SNP supporters give their list votes to a party which doesn’t have independence as its top priority and is unlikely to co-operate with the SNP in a hung parliament?

    165. Rock says:

      Paula Rose,

      “@ Cadogan Enright – think we’ll go with unionist troll.”

      Paula Rose,

      “Rockcock as usual.”

      Paula Rose,

      “Rock – do you really want to go through this all over again? I will if you like,”

      You could have two days ago if you wanted to.

      But you didn’t because you know that you are being a hypocrite by cheering the election of 56 SNP MPs on this site while defending the Greens for standing candidates against the SNP.

      If the SNP landslide had not been so massive, the Greens’ vote splitting policy could well have let more than one unionist MP to survive.

    166. Paula Rose says:

      Rock ?

    167. Paula Rose says:

      I am here to discuss the purpose of the Green party – others are not, the Green party exists to show that there is a common loveliness – are people afraid of that?

    168. Paula Rose says:

      Silly rock.

    169. Paula Rose says:

      As all long time readers of Wings will know – last Friday of the month is music night in Brechin so if young Rock turns up for a wee chin-wag, tell him I’m dancing barefoot.

    170. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Paula Rose.

      Are you so confident that your ingrowing toenails – what with all the pus and inflammation an’ thah’ – are suitable for Flicks pristine dance floor?

      And a woman of your age…

    171. Paula Rose says:

      Someone (not mentioning any names bdtweet) is in danger of a severe stroking whilst in close contact with a certain well known bar-stool.

      FYI my delichtful wee feet are paragons of ankledom. (hope spelling appreciated)



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