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On public record

Posted on May 23, 2015 by

Alistair Carmichael on Channel 4 News a few weeks ago:

Now at least we know why he was struggling to keep a straight face.

Here’s what we now know:

1. A civil servant (still unnamed) in the Scotland Office wrote a memo ostensibly summarising a conversation between himself and the French Consul-General, regarding a meeting between the First Minister and the French ambassador.

2. For reasons which remain unclear (and, it seems likely, always will), the civil servant arrived at a conclusion about the meeting which was in conflict with the subsequent accounts of all three other people involved – namely that the First Minister had expressed a preference for a Conservative government.

3. It was noted in the civil servant’s memo that his/her understanding was suspect, and possibly the result of something having been “lost in translation”, though as far as is known both the meeting between the FM and the ambassador and the conversation between the civil servant and the Consul-General were conducted wholly in English.

4. Euan Roddin, a special adviser to the then Scottish Secretary Alistair Carmichael, suggested leaking this memo to the press in order to damage the First Minister and the SNP before the election. Mr Carmichael agreed with this plan and authorised the leak to the Daily Telegraph journalist Simon Johnson.

5. Simon Johnson ran the story in the paper’s 4 April edition, extraordinarily doing so without having sought any sort of confirmation, denial or any other response from the First Minister. (The Daily Mail also published it, seemingly having lifted it from the Telegraph.)

6. A long parade of senior Unionist politicians – chiefly Labour ones, going all the way up to Ed Miliband, Jim Murphy and Kezia Dugdale – party activists and journalists immediately and repeatedly propagated the smear. (Labour had a video comment prepared and ready before 11pm on the evening of the 3rd.)

betrayal

dugtel

blairtel

murphytel

jttel

fergtel

foulkestel

granttel

martintel

torctel

damtel

cochtel

dougtel

bryanttel

currantel

ruddytel

To the best of our knowledge, none have yet retracted their comments or apologised, with the exception of former Tory MP Louise Mensch.

7. As soon as the story was published, however, it was comprehensively and publicly denied by all parties – the First Minister, the ambassador and the Consul-General. This did cause a few Labour figures to delete some of their tweets in an attempt to cover their tracks.

bdtel

beggtel

8. It was announced on 4 April that Sir Jeremy Heywood would conduct an inquiry into the incident on behalf of the UK government.

9. As the story began to fall apart in the face of consistent on-the-record denials from every named person present at both the meeting and the conversation, Alistair Carmichael appeared on Channel 4 News (the video at the top of this page), claiming that he’d known nothing of the leak until asked about it by the Telegraph. This, we now know by his own admission, was a flat-out lie.

Carmichael stood by and allowed an inquiry to be conducted – whose costs have been reported at £1.4m by one Welsh Labour MP quoting a “usually reliable source”, though no official figure is yet available – despite already knowing full well who had been responsible, namely himself and his special adviser. Indeed, he even told the Daily Record on 5 April that he knew.

carmichaelleakrecord

10. Carmichael was narrowly re-elected as MP for Orkney and Shetland on 7 May, with his majority slashed from almost 10,000 to just over 800.

Since the publication of the Heywood inquiry’s conclusions, Carmichael has conceded on BBC Radio 4 that had he still been Secretary of State for Scotland he would have had to resign as a result of its findings.

The Telegraph, meanwhile, has published a highly misleading article about the report, claiming that the memo was found to have been “recorded accurately”. This is a massive distortion of the truth – the report states that the civil servant made an honest error in his account, recording what he believed to have been said.

However, Alistair Carmichael’s letter of apology to the First Minister had already expressly stated that “the details of that account are not correct”.

carmichaelgate

The Telegraph’s utterly dishonest reporting is a matter for it and its readers. Alistair Carmichael, however, abused an office of state in an attempt to undermine the democratically-elected leader of Scotland and her party, then told a direct lie about it which led to the wasting of a large amount of taxpayers’ money, and also to a delay which may well have materially affected the outcome of an election.

We suspect (and hope) that we haven’t seen the last development in this affair.

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  1. 23 05 15 13:49

    On public record | Politics Scotland | Scoop.it
    Ignored

  2. 23 05 15 14:33

    On public record | Speymouth
    Ignored

548 to “On public record”

  1. Betty Boop
    Ignored
    says:

    High time charges were brought and not just against the likes of Carmichael. The MSM must shoulder a lot of the blame for publishing without making the least attempt to verify stories.

  2. Alastair Watson
    Ignored
    says:

    what a prick . Hang your head in shame . I’m sick of them all lies lies lies it’s fuckin sad

  3. Blackhack
    Ignored
    says:

    Even when they get caught out telling blatant lies they just go on about their business as if nothing had happened.
    If I lived in his constituency, I’d be asking why he was still there, After all he has been proven to be “Uneconomical” with the truth…

  4. Auld Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    If it hadn’t happened in front of our own eyes we would have had great difficulty believing it. I’m waiting, and waiting, and waiting for all the apologies. But don’t tell me that I’ll be wasting my time, LOL.

    The really sad thing is that he’s my MP, how can I ever trust him.

    Auld Rock

  5. Malcolm
    Ignored
    says:

    Just asked Mr Rennie (by a FB PM) if Mr Carmichael lied to him. (Disciplinary action, surely?).
    Or did Mr Rennie know the facts of the incident?
    I don’t expect our coal carrying champion to respond but will keep you posted.
    To think I actually used to campaign and vote for these liars makes me sick to the stomach.

  6. Croompenstein
    Ignored
    says:

    There was also the back up attack from the BBC, in particular one James Cook but all the MSM jumped all over it. They along with the veritable who’s who of unionist batshittery above have pulled back the curtain and shown the union and unionists in their true light.

  7. JimF
    Ignored
    says:

    This article doesn’t appear on the list of stories on Wings home page.

  8. Donald MacKenzie
    Ignored
    says:

    I wonder if Mr Carmichael would wish to tell us if:
    a) the act and the lie that followed it and,
    b) the attempt to remain in post now that the truth is out

    … is behaviour acceptable by a qualified solicitor in Scotland and by an elected representative of the people.

    If, for example, a similar act of dishonesty was perpetrated by a solicitor acting on behalf of his or her client, would the Law Society not consider that solicitor’s position. Yet Mr Carmichael has behaved as he did towards 5 million Scots, not merely one client.

  9. Alan Mackintosh
    Ignored
    says:

    There seems to have been some fore-knowledge of this amongst Slab and libdems as they were all ready to react to the article, which appeared at 10pm I seem to recall. I think the Scottish Affairs select Committee will need to consider the implications of the former SoS impuning the office of the First minister, not to mention a Diplomatic incident, and also the present SoS having knowledge of it as well as he was the deputy at the time.

  10. Greg Drysdale
    Ignored
    says:

    Can hardly contain my incandescent rage at this lot! Humble pie all round their big, fat lying faces!

  11. Cuilean
    Ignored
    says:

    I suspect carmichael was acting along usual BT lines. I suspect he has probably only ‘come clean’ on condition that he keeps his lucrative MP job plus expenses (he does have a lot of expenses).

    I suspect the former UK Coalition Govt were ‘in cahoots’ over this ‘leak’ as I doubt Carmichael did this without his boss Clegg’s knowledge or his Scottish office’s rep’s knowledge (MUndell).

    I suspect the Better Together shenanigans (deal) now is that ‘Carmichael’ agrees to be ‘patsy,’ on condition that he gets to stay MP for 5 years, & to hell with what his voters might demand.

    If he has to step down, or there is a by-election and he loses, I suspect ‘frenchgate’ will get very, very messy, whereby he will take some others in on the ‘leak’ down with him.

    The whole thing is rigged from start to finish.

  12. Morag
    Ignored
    says:

    There’s also the matter of Carmichael trying to defend himself by saying he believed that publishing the memo was “in the public interest”. Even if the contents had been correct, in what concievable way could such a serious breach of protocol and confidentiality be considered to be in the public interest?

    Sturgeon’s alleged words were nothing but potentially politically embarrassing for her election campaign. She had admitted to no wrongdoing or impropriety, merely an opinion about the result of the election. And a conversation involving a foreign diplomat should be sacrosanct unless a very major scandal is involved.

    “In the public interest” was nothing but a smokescreen for “in the interests of damaging the SNP’s election campaign. That may be in the public interest as far as Carmichael is concerned, but that’s not what the form of words normally means.

    There’s also the timing of the leak. Eric Joyce observed that Carmichael held on to it until the purdah period was underway. More to the point, it was published immediately after Sturgeon had won a convincing victory and plaudits from all corners of these isles for her performance in a TV debate. Carmichael was obviously deliberately saving it up for the moment when it would do most damage.

    Fancy adding these points to the article, Stu?

  13. Marcia
    Ignored
    says:

    I found it interesting that despite all the anti-SNP media frenzy during the election campaign it was for nothing. The Unionist got thumped. We will never know if the orchestrated smear had not happened would the SNP vote be a fraction higher?

  14. Brian Powell
    Ignored
    says:

    I heard the Barnett formula is going to changed and extended to words.

    We are using too many and it is after all the English language, so we are being heavily subsidised by England.

    The use of words will be under the control of the office of the Secretary of Statements for Scotland.

    Presently these are being used freely by people on benefits, and given out willy nilly to schools and Universities. People are even given free prescriptions for glasses so they can see the words.

    The words should of course be targeted to ‘qualified providers’, e.g. newspapers and journalists, where they will be used effectively, and distributed to benefit those most in need i.e. the UK Government, Labour politicians, the BBC and failed establishment politicians.

    A UK Government spokesperson from the Daily Record Dept said, “Them words are ours, not yours. You’re not allowed to use them, so there!”

  15. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s an appalling abuse of an office of state but there’s nothing like this WoS report anywhere, either in the British press or the BBC. They all quietly bank holiday bury it but what a ridiculous line up, from blue tory Cameron to red tory Scotland region activists like John Ruddy’s “they printed it coz it’s news.”

  16. John Boettcher
    Ignored
    says:

    I was quite amused watching his face turn redder and redder as he compounds his lie.

  17. Marcia
    Ignored
    says:

    One thing during the media frenzy was the very quick response by the French Embassy denying the comments being reported. Normally foreign governments say ‘we do not comment… but in this case they responded quickly to spike the story.

  18. Hoss Mackintosh
    Ignored
    says:

    I will say it again – I blame the BBC. We expect the papers to be be biased but the BBC and MSM have given a free ride to the Unionist Parties in Scotland for many years.

    So why are we surprised that these parties lie continually? They lie because they think the MSM and BBC will support them and therefore they think they can get away with it. They are never held to account for their actions. (Has Kezia been questioned about her promised investigation into Ian Smart?)

    They could get away with this in the past but not anymore thanks to Social Media and Internet sites like Wings.

    Also It is telling that C4 interviewed Carmichael and not the BBC or STV. James Cook and colleagues were more interested in trying to get some traction to the story so they could continue to smear the FM and the SNP.

    History will record the role of the BBC in the demise of all the Unionist parties in Scotland.

    I good place to start is GA Posonsby’s excellent book…

    http://londoncallingbook.com

    GAP – you are going to need a volume 2…

    On Carmicheal staying on as an MP?

    I am fine with that as it will mean that the Lib-Dems will be totally wiped out in a Scotland in SE16.

    I like the irony of that – No Lib-Dems even under their favoured PR voting system – Karma.

  19. Doug Daniel
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s quite staggering that, even with such an open and shut case, there are still people in Labour and the MSM who try to find an anti-SNP angle in this. They really haven’t learnt a single thing from the mauling Scotland gave them on May 7th.

    (And I include the MSM there, because the result was one big “fuck you” to them as well.)

  20. Morag
    Ignored
    says:

    Well, we’ve got Cameron as PM whether Nicola wanted that or not. Let’s hope the pundits who say this is good for the independencencause turn out to be right.

  21. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    This just to cheer folk up while we wait for Carmichael’s inevitable resignation:

    “And now, welcome Ed Miliband, the next prime minister of England!”
    Delia Smith, cook, writer, latter days of the general election.

    https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/oops-i-mean-britain/

  22. Alan
    Ignored
    says:

    The Independent (needs to rename itself) is following the Torygraph in its reporting:

    Nicola Sturgeon did want David Cameron to win the general election, report concludes.

  23. Anne Bruce
    Ignored
    says:

    Thanks, Stu, for pulling these facts together for us.

    I hope he will be forced to go either due to strength of public opinion or a possible Court action against him.

    What he did was fraudulent.

    We deserve better than this lying, slimy so and so in public office in Scotland.

  24. DerekM
    Ignored
    says:

    oh what a tangled web we weave

    If it wasnt so serious it would be hysterical its like something out of a badly made soap opera,great work Rev spot on once again.

    He has got to go he has made a complete fool of himself and is a proven liar if not worse ,if he stays he must be dragged before the Scottish parliament not westminster as he has many questions that need to be answered,he has disgraced the position of an elected representative of Scotland.

  25. Liz S
    Ignored
    says:

    So to all of Carmichael’s constituents if you are attending court soon then remember it is okay to ‘LIE’. This is also consensus of Lib DemRats party as no discipline required to be given to lying Toad ( no offence to Toads ).

    Obviously Lib DemRats not reflecting on catastrophic defeat at election , business as usual ,media ( with exception of Sunday Herald & The National) will do best to supress this as the name of the game is always SNPBAD.

    Fortunately mud sticks and every time I see this Toad ( no offence to Toads ) I will remember what a lying pathetic excuse he is for a politician and what a shit party the Lib DemRats are. No morals , empty promises, broken pledges ( Tuition fees ) and will do anything for power and to cap it all they put a Ferret ( no offence to Ferrets ) in charge of their party at Holyrood.

    The silence from the political masses who flocked to comment when this smear first broke is a testament to their utter contempt for the public. Assume Scottish Labour too busy reflecting how they can con Scottish people for 2016 elections. Well if Scottish Labour do not condemn Toad ( no offence to Toads ) face and state Toad ( no offence to Toads ) face should go then it would appear it is also business as usual for them.

    Memo to Scottish Labour : Scottish people not playing your games this year or next year.So copy and paste that into your manifesto or fiasco.

    Memo to Lib DemRats : Shame on you and get to F**K out of politics Scotland does not need or want any more of your shit policies or politicians .

  26. I Clark
    Ignored
    says:

    On simple moral grounds, Carmichael should resign, but if he doesn’t, then there is one great advantage for the SNP and the wider independence movement.

    For 5 years the unionist Lib Dems were tainted and eventually electorally crippled by, amongst other things, their lies about tuition fees. For the next 5 years, Carmichael will be a living, physical symbol of Lib Dem lies and lack of principles. His presence will be a gift to anyone looking to attack them.

    From a pragmatic viewpoint, the probable loss of his seat would surely be a cost worth bearing by the LDs to avoid further damage in the UK and possible destruction in Scotland.

    If you are a LD member, how demoralising will it be knowing that you are going to have to continually defend your leadership’s decision to take no action against someone publically known as a brazen liar. And all the while, you know that he will be picking up £70K+ and expenses a year for the next 5 years.

    It’s a ‘no brainer’ in my book.

  27. carjamtic
    Ignored
    says:

    The Smear Hunter aka The Orcadian Candidate

    Should do the Right Thing

    I personally like Orkney Smoked Cheddar and a wee dram of Highland Park but this sorry episode has flavoured them,left a very bad taste.

    I feel for the people of O&S they played no part in this International Scandal,but are now stuck with this fly man,let’s hope they show their disapproval as he collects his Wages of Shame.

  28. ronald russell
    Ignored
    says:

    Can the F.M. sue Carmichael for defamation of character? I am sure that telling absolute lies, when he knew the truth of the matter, and allowing them to be printed breaks so me sort of law.
    If he cannot be prosecuted then the least he can do is resign, after all it cost the tax-payers over a million pounds for an inquiry that was not needed plus, and most importantly, he brought the integrity of the F.M. into question.

  29. Anne Bruce
    Ignored
    says:

    Grouse Beater at 2.02pm re Carmichael’s “inevitable resignation”.

    As much as I want that to be the case some people lie and cheat their way through life and continually get away with it.

    Sadly, it appears to be all too common in public life i.e. cash for questions, expenses scandals and, of course, more sickening allegations such as paedophilia.

    Depressing.

  30. Dr Jim
    Ignored
    says:

    Now this is how you do journalism

    Evidence..Accuracy..and more importantly Truth presented in the correct manner

    And the MSM have the temerity to deride this site

    Superb job, Rev Stuart Campbell

  31. manandboy
    Ignored
    says:

    If this memo leak was orchestrated by the Cabinet office PR machine, then all the Unionist papers and politicians would be notified instantly. Like Better Together all over again.

    Anyone who got a call from Tory HQ about this leak, would have no reason to verify. They would immediately go on the attack as Stu so vividly presents above.

    The explanation lies in two words – Propaganda War.

    It started in 2012 and is still ongoing. Scotland, the Holyrood Parliament, and the SNP, Nicola in particular, are the primary targets for the bombardment. The objective is to destroy the Independence movement and to restore the Unionist parties to power. That is the only way that Westminster and the British Establishment can secure Scotland’s vital revenues and resources.

    This a fight to the death. Either the Union dies or Independence for Scotland dies.

    Have you ever felt sympathy for the poor people in foreign lands who have had to endure conflict and upheaval sometimes for decades? Well Scotland is now one of them. A bit O/T? A bit dramatic?

    Scotland was divided between Yes and No. Between those who were awake and those who were asleep. The division now is between those who trust the Scottish Government and those who trust the British Government.

    It’s a choice between Nicola and Alistair Carmichael – for there are many, many more just like him.

  32. Marcia
    Ignored
    says:

    It was a bit of fun watching the Labour MP’s deleting their tweets when the story did not go the way they had hope. The electorate then went and deleted them instead.

  33. paul gerard mccormack
    Ignored
    says:

    – up to the constituents to pull him down through a concerted campaign of non-co-operation and petitioning. They voted him in, they can vote him out.

    to hell with him.

    £1.4m? wtf? I’d have done it for living expenses.

  34. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    This is really slacking off now. Just over 8,000. Disappointing.

    https://www.change.org/p/alistair-carmichael-mp-resign-as-an-mp?

  35. Richardinho
    Ignored
    says:

    Worth watching alone for the grin at the end.

  36. tombee
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev,
    Once again an immaculate piece of investigatory journalism on your part. So clearly and concisely laid out for all to understand the event as they happened.
    Good on you.
    If only the MSM would emulate your professionalism.

  37. Jim Thomson
    Ignored
    says:

    I see that AC shares a Lerwick office with Tavish Scot. If he does the honourable thing (aye, right) he’ll not be dumping all of his staff. He will enforce a pay cut on some of them though, I reckon.

    Hope he’s really proud of himself.

  38. panda paws
    Ignored
    says:

    I suspect Carmichael will try to brazen it out. However the SNP will have control of the Scottish Affairs select committee whose remit includes the Scottish Office so can kepep the pressure on. They will also have a question at Scottish Questions. If any SNP MP wins a private member’s bill they might want to consider a “recall” bill since I suspect this previous Libdem proposal (irony much) won’t be in the Queen’s speech.

    @revstu

    “costs have been reported at £1.4m by one English Labour MP quoting a “usually reliable source”

    The MP was born in Cardiff and represents Newport. He’s not English though he is Labour – good to know some of them still have principles.

  39. indyracer2014
    Ignored
    says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32849065
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32177315
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/04/the-hounding-of-the-bbc-scotlands-james-cook-exposes-the-uglier-side-of-nationalism/
    Strange how James Cook, in his coverage of the story today on BBC website, didn’t reference back to either his deplorable interview with FM on 4 April, or his subsequent bleating about being hounded on twitter.
    What a difference a day makes!

  40. stonefree
    Ignored
    says:

    My personal view is that his sorry arse should be dragged to court, that if found guilty he pays all the costs, including public ones
    Further he is,in addition, an Officer of the Court, and now that his integrity is in question,there rises the suitability of him being a Member of the Law Society, and that’s before going near his prosecutions as a Fiscal
    Oh and fling in a public flogging Or am I being unreasonable?

  41. Richardinho
    Ignored
    says:

    Why is Carmichael sitting by the sea with the tide apparently coming in?

    Insert own metaphor here!

  42. cirsium
    Ignored
    says:

    In the case of this lying liar, two quotations come to mind

    Crime, once exposed, has no refuge but audacity.

    L’audace, encore l’audace, toujours l’audace!

    He will stay on.

  43. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    Clear breaches of electoral laws and not just the abuse of power as far as I am concerned and what a week it has been with the kiddy fiddler revelations earlier in the week as well. Corrupt sleazy rotten broken Britannia, still cant believe that folk were suckered into voting No.

  44. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    Was it true that Shetland voted to ditch him but his corrupt arse was saved by the Orkney vote? If so then there is clearly a problem in Orkney. Can anybody who was at that count confirm either way?

  45. Hoss Mackintosh
    Ignored
    says:

    @Dr Jim,

    fully agree with that – Rev Stu is the best journalist in the British Isles by miles.

    Concise, accurate reporting of the truth.

    No wonder the MSM do not like him.

    Thanks again Rev Stu.
    Have tonight off and watch Eurovision Song Contest.
    Then compare notes with James Kelly . I always wondered what the “pop” was all about.

  46. proudscot
    Ignored
    says:

    I sincerely hope that either the First Minister herself, or perhaps her very able deputy Stewart Hosie, will now directly challenge The Telegraph and Independent to retract their continuing misreporting of the actual finding of the Heywood inquiry.

    The substance of the leaked memo has been admitted as a deliberate lie by the perpetrator himself, Carmichael. So how can the Telegraph continue to perpetuate the lie by implication and weasel words in their coverage? Mind you, any rag which employs the likes of Cochrane and Johnson, can hardly be expected to print anything factual or balanced about either the SNP or its excellent leader.

  47. steveasaneilean
    Ignored
    says:

    Of course he won’t resign – and the poor folks of Orkney and Shetland will be stuck with a laughing stock dead duck of an MP.

    But that is only half the story as your page shot tweets show – there were many who didn’t think twice about jumping on the bandwagon to do down the democratically elected First Minster of a national parliament.

    They are as guilty and as culpable as Carmichael of undermining the democratic process.

    We must NEVER forget that – and never let any of them forget.

    And Nicola should start by calling Rennie and Dugdale out at FMQs this coming week.

  48. Lollysmum
    Ignored
    says:

    As I understand it, Carmichael is no longer on the legal roll as a solicitor. Good job really otherwise he’d be in the same boat as Darling- he had to stand down from law or face prosecution.

    Marcia -I do like your one line posts-always succinct & usually cutting too. Keep it up 🙂

  49. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook Its pretty quite out there in teamGB media land and from this dude in particular. Its an odd way to conduct yourself professionally, having piled in to Sturgeon with a camera crew back in April, bursting with teamGB newsiness. Maybe off for a weekend bank holiday as opposed to that faithful April Saturday afternoon in Glasgow .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qfcnSkciM8

    Text book BBC Scotland monstering starts at approx 2mins in, “what exactly are you accusing people of here?”

    No doubt Carmichael is getting exact impartial unbiased questioning from the greatest public broadcaster the world has ever seen.

  50. Marcia
    Ignored
    says:

    Lollysmum

    Merci – I hate typing!

  51. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    A of of tweets there from ex MPs

    Carmichael can consider himself fortunate he isn’t amongst them

  52. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    If we let Carmichael get away with this, then we will have failed our children.

  53. indigo
    Ignored
    says:

    One for Lesley-Anne and Morag to digest, and anyone else in DCT constituency

    Stands to reason he knew, easy to assume the blame being hurled at Carmichael with such force is to deflect from fluffy
    http://derekbateman.co.uk/2015/05/23/a-small-merci/

  54. Alan
    Ignored
    says:

    Derek Bateman on what Mundell’s role. How credible is it that he knew nothing? Is he being protected? Is Mundell, Carmichael’s bargaining chip? This story has a legs to go a lot further than it’s gone so far.

  55. Hugh
    Ignored
    says:

    So Big All’s finally owned up to his fibbing. It just shows how far down the Libs have come when they support an outright liar. At least Clegg had an excuse of sorts but Carmichael smells of sh-t!. What of Mundell’s role in this?. The two of them shared an office. Are we to believe that Big Al and his secretary kept this from Mundell, considering the lie involved a foriegn Diplomat and could have, may yet do, consequences for relations with one of our allies, France. That should be fully investigated too.

  56. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    there are 3 petitions running, on 38 it’s 6500.

  57. Des
    Ignored
    says:

    Also out there and available on-line on the Shetland Times website of 2010 vintage – serious students may wish to follow the link:

    “The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending.

    Alistair Carmichael MP”

    http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2010/11/12/letter-from-westminster-49#.VWBURGPnIC8.twitter

  58. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    I really want to promote a crowd fund to take some these people to court!

    For pity sake the country’s democracy has been compromised and we have proof that there are no English journalist or editors who
    are interested in presenting the facts of the matter after conducting a full and fair investigation.
    Truth and Justice in the UK media has been dashed on the rocks of lies deceit, and injustice.

    Freedom of the press I 100% believe in, right up to when its purpose is to deceive the general public about the machinations of the UK elite.

    The Telegraph and the Daily Mail should have no right to run the French Gate story with consulting the 3 parties concerned.
    When all 3 participants agreed that the story was completely unfounded, the papers refused to accept it, and continues to frame the story as “Sturgeon still denies that this did happen”.

    I too recall the French representatives, who have no history or reason to lie, having never operated at Westminster, refuted the story in perfect English.

    I want, and expect, the head of any “Civil Servant” who does not understand plain English. Nothing was lost in any translation.
    Anyone making this claim must be sacked, imprisoned and lose all pension rights, to ensure future episodes are never repeated.

    Even after the chief instigator, Carmichael, has fully admitted that the whole situation was fabricated to skew a free and democratic election, we still see Johnny English in the “Spectator” still insisting that the story is true? Unbelievable!

    The Westminster elite are now taking us into a territory where both hands in the till, the takings in your pocket, eye witnesses and video evidence would see a criminal attain a Not Proven verdict.

    Our Language, Democracy, Decency, and our Objective to live in a fair and just society is being systematically destroyed by this cabal of subterfuge.

    We must take them to court one by one. sue the life out of them
    and make them squeal on the terrorists who sponsor their actions.

  59. Swami Backverandah
    Ignored
    says:

    There’s a stink coming from the civil service.
    If, as Heywood claims, after speaking with his colleagues, YUCS (Yet Unnamed Civil Servant) has a reputation for reliability, how did he get it so wrong?
    Was it deliberate on his part, or was he just a teensy bit tired.
    And who is he writing the memo for?

    Sexed-up memo.

  60. Jack Murphy
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s worth remembering this from Alistair Carmichael’s letter to the First Minister:- “The details of the account are not correct.”

  61. Rob James
    Ignored
    says:

    Isn’t it wonderful how the media have totally underestimated the seriousness of this incident. This man has undermined the position of Secretary of Estate for Scotland with his actions. He deliberately employed a dirty tricks campaign in an effort to smear the First Minister and gain advantage in the election.

    In doing so, he insulted a French Ambassador and Consul General. He authorised the release of a Classified document (not his remit) to a national newspaper, the contents of which were incorrect.

    He lied about his knowledge of the ‘memo’ to the electorate and his peers, whilst an enquiry was being carried out to find the culprit. Said enquiry is to cost the taxpayer in the region of 1.4 Million.

    Compare with the case of William McNeilly who sits in a military jail. His crime? To tell the truth (He did not breach the official secrets act as Carmichael did).

    Should Carmichael resign? Any of his peers who think he is still fit to hold office, need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror. No doubt that will be most of them.

  62. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    23 May, 2015 at 2:34 pm
    This is really slacking off now. Just over 8,000. Disappointing.

    https://www.change.org/p/alistair-carmichael-mp-resign-as-an-mp?

    Ian, I had a rant about this earlier!
    The Wings site is quite magnificent with clear factual evidence to the forefront of every story and generally followed with informative posts and discussions.

    Rev Stu, I would really like to see you spend a little on advertising your site. I still can’t believe it when internet users proclaim never to have heard or benefited from it.

    Even if I was an English Tory Millionaire, I feel certain that I’d be captivated by the reality behind UK politics and the media

    There is nothing else with this degree of integrity in the UK.

    Last Rant before the Motorway:

    The “Change” Petition will likely have 10,000 signatures by the end of the day. For such a heinous crime, how does this compare to the 1,000,000 plus signatures supporting Jeremy Clarkston’s right to punch people in the face when he does’t get a hot meal at lunch time?

    Is this a sign of what the media has made of the average UK citizen?

  63. Thomas William Dunlop
    Ignored
    says:

    Help me Rhona, I think not

  64. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve been reading excerpts from G A Ponsonby’s book “London Calling. How the BBC Stole the Referendum”. You can sample it on Amzon Kindle.

    The lying, smearing and misinformation clearly has been part of the media’s remit for decades. He tells us that John Birt advised Tony Blair against creating a Scottish Six news programme because it would “encourage sparatist tendencies”.

    In 2007 Blair McDougall warned then SoSfS Des Browne against allowing BBC Scotland “to create an evening news programme that would have presented events home and abroad from a Scottish perspective.”

    A good read (if you don’t have high blood pressure).
    http://londoncallingbook.com/

  65. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T Rats in a sack time at Labour (branch) leader contest. Ken Macintosh’s accusation that the ‘party machine’ is bullying and intimidating his supporters, denied by Brian Roy, then Macintosh denies he has withdrawn his accusations:

    Scottish Labour general secretary Brian Roy said: “I have spoken to Ken Macintosh and he has withdrawn his allegations about the party. The leadership contest in Scotland will be conducted fairly and openly.”

    In response, Mr Macintosh said: “I am not withdrawing anything. I clarified with Brian [Roy] that the allegations are not against party staff, but against the machine politics which have too much influence in the Labour Party.”

    He hammers home his insistence in the same article:

    “All the people that have been trying to support me, the party machine has turned on them, and they are being put under incredible pressure to withdraw their support. They are being bullied and being intimidated and pressurised not to support me so we don’t have a contest.

    “I wouldn’t even have put my head above the parapet if I didn’t know I had that support.”

    Ironic eh? The ‘party machine’ reeks of McTernan, imv, therefore Jim Murphy’s best pal Ken Macintosh is now at the mercy of McTernan’s bile. You could not make this sh** up!

    Reported by BBC:

    https://archive.is/oLH9T

    (Good stuff Stu, keep on chasing the bastard. He’ll be gone by Monday, imo) 😉

  66. ianbeag
    Ignored
    says:

    A great piece by Derek Bateman today which opens the lid on possible further complications inside the Scottish Office.
    http://derekbateman.co.uk/2015/05/23/a-small-merci/
    How implicated is David Mundell?

  67. Allan Thomson
    Ignored
    says:

    I well remember the Saturday morning of Memogate. Many were quickly out of their traps to pour media fuel on what they hoped would be the First Ministers funeral pyre. All the usual cast took part including the pathetic Milliband.
    Special attention however,falls on one today due to his extremely close ties to Carmichael. As Willie Rennie waxed lyrical to the cameras that day what did he know? There is little room for manoeuvre for Willie. Either he was left in the dark and taken for a complete fool by a close party colleague or he was party to the scam. Few would be surprised if it was the former but the point is we need to know. The Lib Dems refusal to initiate disciplinary proceedings or mount any inquiry is clearly unsustainable.
    Mr Rennies already limited time will get very uncomfortable without clarity!

  68. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Posted this late last night, and doing so again for those who may enjoy seeing Carmichael doing the ‘day job’, i.e. polishing soundbites with the assistance of a sympathetic film crew.

    NB the director, right at the end, asking him if he can do ‘the walk of shame’. No probs for Fozzy, the old pro. Looks like he could be doing it for real pretty soon…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMcxgkrkz7Q

  69. scottieDog
    Ignored
    says:

    Establishment party members can do what they like – the partisan media has their back

  70. Davy
    Ignored
    says:

    I like the sound of 57 SNP mp’s rather than 56, and if Mundell had knowledge or coluded with Carmichael in covering up this scandal, the sound of 58 SNP mp’s is even better.

  71. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    Its some small satifaction that each of the Labour worthies mentioned above and all but one Lib dem had their arses collectively handed to them on a plate on May 7th for their actions. However as Derek Bateman posits on his own blog, is it inconceivable that Mundell was kept out of the loop for so long in an office he shared with Carmichael?

    This wee conspiracy hasn’t just stained the Scotland office and the post of SoSfS, IMO it has totally compromised both the position and the office. We’re supposed to clear any devolution proposals through this office before submission to Westminster FFS and Mundell is now SoS and Dunlop his 2IC? We’re to trust that this office will deal fairly with any SG representation when it actively sought to undermine and defame our First Minister?

    I don’t think so. Scrap it and have Holyrood deal directly with Westminster. We want the organ grinder from now on, not the monkeys.

  72. Les Wilson
    Ignored
    says:

    I think it would be just, to have the inquiry bill be sent to Carmichael himself. Why should we, or anyone, have to pay to find out about his lies when he could, have just admitted it was a fabrication?

  73. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    The Libdem decision to take no action demonstrates yet again we are looking at a party incapable of any other action than stabbing at that self-destruct button.

  74. gus1940
    Ignored
    says:

    I suggested some time ago in these columns and somebody else suggested something similar yesterday that legislation be passed to the effect that any politician, political apparatchik, journalist or contributing freelance be subjected to something akin to the laws an d penalties regarding perjury in court under oath should they be found to have deliberately lied.

    What would be required is for any of the above on taking office or employment by a political party or member of the media to sign a document similar to The Official Secrets Act which would render them liable to prosecution should they tell a lie or lies. Signing said document would be the equivalent of taking the oath in court.

    As regards MPs it might also be an idea, after witnessing this week’s Commons Swearing in, to add to the Oath of Loyalty a committment to speak The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth.

    If any of the 56 are successful in the draw for Private Members Bills can I suggest something along the lines of the above.

    It could be a masterstroke as anybody speaking against it would leave themselves immediately guilty of arguing for the right to lie.

    If such legislation were to be passed and more importantly strictly enforced it would go a long way to cleaning up the ethical quagmire that is WM and the MSM.

  75. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    On the subject of Willie Rennie, remember he was one of the loudest voices leading the hounding out of the SNP MSP (who also was under no obligation to resign). Different circumstances, of course, but the principle remains the same – bad characters have no place in public service.

  76. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s another one, where Carmichael delivers a masterclass in arrogance before a Holyrood committee. Worth watching to the end, where he all-but gives them two-fingers before leaving. Pompous prick.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgrJId9Q1lw

  77. Gary45%
    Ignored
    says:

    To be sung at the Scottish Cup Final next week.
    (If any wingers are going)

    There’s only one carbuncle,
    only one carbuncle,
    with his nose in the trough,
    and on the gravy train,
    carbuncles gone and PISHED himself again.

    (To the tune of winter wonderland)

  78. John king
    Ignored
    says:

    Just out of interest, according to his Wikipedia entry,Alastair Carmichael speaks fluent French, just thought you’d like to know.

  79. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    We’ve had 18months of smears and deceit from Unionists aimed usually at the SNP, sometimes at their supporters, and just as often at Scotland in general.

    Their transgressions have been an afront to democracy and indeed, a national disgrace

    You can’t say they got off with it … the General Election dealt out justice to many.

    Beyond sacking via the ballot box, a firm message needs to be sent if anti-democracy activities become a matter of law breaking. If this has happened, then perhaps the time may have come to make an example. There has to be limits to just how far they can go to subvert democracy and get away with it. And, the more charlatans who can be implicated, the better.
    .

  80. MickyD
    Ignored
    says:

    Anyone remember Watergate ? : )

  81. Arthur's Seat
    Ignored
    says:

    As the role of SoSfS and the Scotland Office has been completely discredited is now not the time to close the department down and simply transfer any essential functions, if any exist, to the Foreign Office? A move like this will simply save time later on.

  82. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    That’s a killer find Des.

  83. Petra
    Ignored
    says:

    @ proudscot ”says I sincerely hope that either the First Minister herself, or perhaps her very able deputy Stewart Hosie, will now directly challenge The Telegraph and Independent to retract their continuing misreporting of the actual finding of the Heywood inquiry.

    The substance of the leaked memo has been admitted as a deliberate lie by the perpetrator himself, Carmichael. So how can the Telegraph continue to perpetuate the lie by implication and weasel words in their coverage?”

    Proudscot I totally agree with you and wonder if Nicola Sturgeon could have them sued for libel / defamation of character?

  84. Jimbo
    Ignored
    says:

    If my dishonesty had cost the government £1.4 million I’d be arrested. Why is Carmichael still walking about?

    As per usual, seems to be one law for them, another for us.

  85. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    @IanB, Condescending patronising prick more like. I recall watching that at the time, and had the exact same visceral response as re watching. He didn’t like it one bit when his rather ‘open’ civil servant was clearly co operating in a manner befitting the committee’s questioning: honestly and forthcoming.

    Carmichael became increasingly uncomfortable during his colleagues answers: if you just watch Carmichael closely, he doesn’t know where to look, a man not at ease. Disgraceful behaviour, these people really ‘buy’ into their own hype because they have a ‘titled’ position, add a little ‘en’ at the beginning and therein lies the problem, egocentric doesn’t even cover it.

    Sick of this hierarchy bullshit!

  86. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    I remember being on political betting when one poster said that Andrew Neil had tweeted that a story was going to break in the Telegraph at 10 that night. That was at least an hour before hand. It was clearly orchestrated. The BBC and Hootsman were ready to give it a shit stir as well.

    Oh and Political Betting is run by a Fib Doom as well. Just saying like.

  87. Fat boab
    Ignored
    says:

    Excellent work as ever, Rev.

    I don’t do twitter so apologies if I’ve got this wrong but, am I right in saying that, of all the tweets you list above, the earliest to appear on the evening of 3 April was from the account of none other than D. Alexander, followed 10 mins later by M. Curran? All the rest then had to play catch-up.

    Anybody care to hazard a guess as to why he should be first on the crime scene?
    (Or did somebody beat him to it?)

    yours, Sherlock Boab

  88. Ian M
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael gives up his severance package

    Guilty man determines his own punishment

  89. Kevin Evans
    Ignored
    says:

    If this fat tub or lying lard is still in office by next week a vote of no confidence must be pit forward by the SNP in Westminster.

  90. Kevin Evans
    Ignored
    says:

    Damn auto correct

  91. CatSilver
    Ignored
    says:

    Pretty sure if Labour or the Tories thought they had a chance of winning the seat they’d be all over this. Since it would probably go to the SNP they’re keeping quiet.

  92. Sunniva
    Ignored
    says:

    I tink the oroginal memo was recorded accurately – until doctored by Mundell or Carmichael.

    The false allegations are additions to the end of the original

  93. Legerwood
    Ignored
    says:

    This whole incident, together with what has gone before (eg expenses etc) just shows that Westminster has fully earned its title as the Mother of All Cesspits.

  94. Black Joan
    Ignored
    says:

    The Rev, in his time-honoured, typical, forensic style, has analysed the facts and laid them out perfectly for all to comprehend.

    The MSM need not do any work. It is all there for them on a plate. They have no excuse for ignoring this, not even laziness. But they obey their imperial masters and look the other way. The name of Wings is not permitted to appear in any of their “organs” unless it is being slagged off.

    Shame on the lot of them and particular shame for their craven failure to publicise the fact that there is something rotten at the heart of the Scottish Office and Westminster.

    Carmichael must go and, if he is playing the part of a Blue-Panda-shield, the role of others in this sordid little story must be investigated and exposed.

  95. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Why doesn’t he just go. It’s only a matter of time now. What an odious individual.

  96. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    I see the SNP have got the Chairs of the Scottish Select Committee and the Energy and Climate Change one.

    I think that is about as good as we could have hoped for 🙂

  97. rog_rocks
    Ignored
    says:

    Alistair ‘Poo-Storm’ Carmichael caught smearing his dirt; but don’t worry too much folks, as you can see he was on his way out when he released his bomb 🙂

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTHZP5kxdWk

  98. Davy
    Ignored
    says:

    I have just remembered this attempted smear took place just after the first debate in which Nicola was receiveing rave reviews for her performance.

    I remember quite a few of us speculated it was because of her performance that the so-called memo was leaked and that the memo was actually not supposed to be used until the week-end before the election to try and do maximum damage to the First Minster and the SNP party.

    So who decided to pull the trigger early ?

  99. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    Latest reporting of Carmichael fiasco by the BBC:

    Thought this little snippet was interesting as it’s the first I’ve seen the memo being described as ‘written by a civil servant in the Scotland office’:

    It seems to me that this implicitly states ‘fabrication’. Am I incorrect in this perception?

    ‘The confidential memo was published by the Daily Telegraph on 3 April as the general election campaign got under way.

    It was written by a civil servant in the Scotland Office and claimed Ms Sturgeon told the French Ambassador to the UK, Sylvie Bermann, that she would prefer Mr Cameron, the leader of the Conservatives, to remain as prime minister.’

    https://archive.is/2yseU

    But..

    In the original Telegraph article (3rd April), it is made clear that the ‘memo’ was an official UK government document:

    ‘The Telegraph has seen the official British Government memorandum which includes details of a private meeting between Miss Sturgeon and Sylvie Bermann, the French Ambassador to the UK.’

    https://archive.is/7y3sQ

    And again on the 4th April, the telegraph emphasises exactly who wrote the memo:

    ‘The document, which was circulated to officials in Whitehall and Edinburgh, was compiled by an experienced UK civil servant immediately after talking by telephone to Pierre-Alain Coiffinier, the French consul-general in Edinburgh, who had been present at Sylvie Bermann’s meetings with the Scottish ministers’

    https://archive.is/YyqKx

    So which is it? Was the ‘memo’ written by an ‘experienced UK civil servant’ as the Telegraph states?

    Or

    ‘Written by a civil servant in the Scotland Office’ as the BBC now states?

  100. woosie
    Ignored
    says:

    Like the rest of us, I get perplexed to the point of illness when the likes of this useless fool lie to their “own” people, and the ebc glosses over their guilt.

    However, I’m heartened in the knowledge that the Scottish public are not being conned as they think; 56 mps, soon 57, is the proof.

    Maybe we get too carried away with uk msm, and place too much importance on their lies and half-truths. The English public may not be too far behind us in seeing through them all.

  101. Gary45%
    Ignored
    says:

    The LibDums still owe £800,000 for policing their conference, and now they have wasted another £1.4 million, of tax payers’ money. Ronnie Biggs got hounded by the “establishment” for most of his life, for a crime less serious than this.

    It is time we stopped accepting the “one rule for them, and one rule for us”.

    As tax payers we have the responsibility to enforce our democratic right to bring ANY politician to justice. We vote for them, we pay their wages, and we expect them to behave with honesty, integrity and common decency.

    It is time the electorate grew a BIG PAIR OF BALLS and took on the “establishment”.

  102. Dr Ew
    Ignored
    says:

    A wee sidenote to the contortions of the right-wing media and politicians loathe to admit they were complicit in all of this.

    First headline I saw this morning was the Daily Mail’s “LibDem leak minister to give up £17k” (or words to that effect). The gist was he was doing the noble thing.

    Can you imagine if the shoe had been on the other foot – days of screaming headlines saying SNP minister LIED and WASTED £1.4m of TAXPAYER’S MONEY, etc., etc. Column inches and MSM airtime comparable to, say, the royal baby with endless op-eds on how this proved the perfidiousness of the Nats, Sturgeon BRAZENING it out, blah, blah, ad nausem.

    Next week it’s back to SNP MPs “acting like children” in the Commons and HYPOCRISY!!! if anyone with an accent north of Carlisle so much as expresses an opinion on fox-hunting.

  103. Vronsky
    Ignored
    says:

    Uncharacteristically naive, Rev. Story is: fat Tory boy does bad thing. And you think something might happen about it?

    Oh look, there’s a squirrel!

  104. ALANM
    Ignored
    says:

    When I spotted that The Telegraph had decided not to offer a retraction or an apology, I thought I’d do them a favour and do the job for them.

    Seeing as how their story reporting the results of the official inquiry allowed no comments, I decided to post my correction on one of their regular “Salmond Accused…” stories instead and, in doing so, admonish their “journalists” for failing to verify their original story and offer Nicola Sturgeon an opportunity to respond.

    Unsurpisingly my comments were deleted within minutes by their mods. That’s free speech for you!

  105. Craig
    Ignored
    says:

    Oh this is just too good not share

    Please note the date of this letter

    http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2010/11/12/letter-from-westminster-49#.VWBURGPnIC8.twitter

  106. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    @Craig, 6.46, good find! Further proof, if needed, that Carbuncle is a lying hypocrite of considerable proportions, just like his girth.

  107. Achnababan
    Ignored
    says:

    Craig – Now that is funny, I love the last sentence – well found sir!

  108. StevieMcB
    Ignored
    says:

    @Craig, archived jist incase 😉
    https://archive.is/kWJZf

  109. Alderman62
    Ignored
    says:

    I thought the man was a lot of things, but such a brazen liar? He has to go, his position is untenable.

    Carmichael Caught Out: http://www.vid.me/e/XkwI

  110. Mealer
    Ignored
    says:

    Craig 6.46
    Excellent work!

  111. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    @Craig

    Oh Jeez, what a stunner. 😀

    Great find Craig.

  112. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    People have mentioned Watergate. But this definitely does have ‘shades of’!

    Who else knew?
    How high did it go?
    Did it go all the way to the top?

  113. Brotyboy
    Ignored
    says:

    @Craig

    Kudos.

  114. Fireproofjim
    Ignored
    says:

    Craig.
    That is marvellous. It will be quoted for years to come.
    I hope there is some way of ensuring Nicola gets this. Pure Holyrood gold!

  115. Craig
    Ignored
    says:

    Well done Craig, it’s all over for the lying hypocrite now.

  116. Socrates MacSporran
    Ignored
    says:

    K1 @ 6.24pm

    In answer to your question: A senior UK civil servant and a civil servant at the Scotland Office are one and the same.

    The Scotland Office is a UK (Westminster) government department, it is Westminster rather than Holyrood-controlled. The lead definitely came from Westminster, even if the guilty civil servant was based in their Edinburgh branch office.

    Mind you, if the msm’s well-tried and tested efforts to bury this story fails, and if the guilty man was Edinburgh-based, you can bet the English papers will start to play-up the Edinburgh angle, in an effort to try to divert the blame from the Westminster department to the Scottish government.

  117. Meindevon
    Ignored
    says:

    @ DrEw you don’t have to wait till next week. The DM online has this sickening headline today:

    ‘Invasion of the McManiacs: Boorish, boozy, picking fights… Even Nicola Sturgeon’s alarmed by the Commons antics of the SNP’s yob MPs’

    What is worse is the comments below. Especially the ones from ‘proud buts’ saying how embarrassed they are by the SNP MPs. The MSM have really done a good job on the English readership and I’m afraid I can’t see them seeing through the lies any time soon as Woosie hoped.

  118. Michael Neil
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Craig that is beezer. HOC Tea Room, tee hee.

  119. Chitterinlicht
    Ignored
    says:

    Goodness when you see all those comments together…….

    Makes you glad Scotland voted no and upheld all those Great British values

    These Lib Dems do love a good lie

    Joking aside I am really very angry about this. When it broke it was all over the news every news channel for days. Disgrace that these chunderheads cannae apologise for being wrong.

    Grumpy

  120. Robert Louis
    Ignored
    says:

    Regarding Carmichael’s dishonesty during the election, some might find this analysis useful;

    http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/is-carmichael-vulnerable-to-election.html

    Meanwhile congratulations to the country of Ireland, voting today to provide equality of marriage for gay people. Meanwhile in religious Bigotland N.Ireland to the North, the people must look on in shame. Jeezo N.Ireland, how about dragging yourself into the 21st freaking century.

    Great news on Eurovision night 🙂

  121. fraise
    Ignored
    says:

    We all agree that much wrong doing was done by UK PLC but we alone and I mean Scotland, cannot and will not get much traction out of this.
    lets be French for a moment. The ambassador or Consul General could through their own government make a formal complaint.
    Now the French president could hold this over the head of Cameron in Latvia this weekend.
    Gives the French a bargaining chip they did not have before.
    Just a thought

  122. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    If the good people of Orkney and Shetland don’t chase Carmichael from power, then we will all be on the wrong side of history.

  123. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    @Robert Louis

    Couldn’t agree more.

    Well done Ireland. 🙂

  124. Croompenstein
    Ignored
    says:

    Great news on Eurovision night

    What in the name of a thousand fucks was that pish from the ‘UK’ neel pwan

  125. John Malcolm
    Ignored
    says:

    Is there any way of finding out how the cost of the inquiry was reached? I assume the taxpayer foots the bill, but where does the money actually go? It doesn’t seem like good value for money. Other than the entertainment value that is.

  126. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Change-org petition now at 8853.

    If folk are settling in for the evening, good time for SNP members in particular to get busy – if only, what, approximately 15% of the actual SNP membership can be bothered signing any of the petitions on the go, MSM can use that stat to further play-down the magnitude of this scandal.

    As Derek Bateman and others have suggested, this could go much further, and may implicate Mundell. The removal of the last Tory in Scotland would be sweet, but for there to be any chance of that Carmichael has to go first. These petitions won’t achieve that, but they can help raise awareness and keep the wrath warm – the higher the numbers, the more embarrassing it becomes when the MSM ignores them.

    Please pass this link to everyone you know, especially if you have access to branch membership lists. We’re pushing at an open door, but not hard enough.

    https://www.change.org/p/alistair-carmichael-mp-resign-as-an-mp?

  127. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    DrEw you don’t have to wait till next week. The DM online has this sickening headline today:

    ‘Invasion of the McManiacs: Boorish, boozy, picking fights… Even Nicola Sturgeon’s alarmed by the Commons antics of the SNP’s yob MPs’

    Can anyone explain why Nicola/SNP don’t sue?
    Surely any civilised society would demand that they have “proof”of Nicola making these comments, or they remain silent.
    If not, £4,000,000 should cover the compensation for this week’s
    defamation of character.

    Thomas Cook picked up £3.5 million compensation for damage done to their brand. Can anyone reasonably suggest that damage done to a Nation’s democratically elected members and their party is in any way less serious and due any less of a compensation package?

    We Must, Must challenge these vipers in court and take them for every penny they have. The rate of slanderous comments across every media outlet should see any black hole in Scotland’s finance filled within 12 months!

  128. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    Fiona,

    “Most of government accounting is made up. No money changes hands at all”

    “Still haven’t seen any evidence of any money being spent at all.”

    Have you stopped flogging your dead horse now after being at it all night last night?

  129. yesindyref2
    Ignored
    says:

    A lie a day,
    keeps a Minister in pay.

  130. Ian M
    Ignored
    says:

    So the experienced civil servant who apparently was otherwise excellent at his job decided that although he doubted the supposed comments by NS decided not to confirm the lost in translation bit. A one minute phone call could have confirmed it.

    Carmichael hides behind wearing a different hat, but the man underneath the hat has no honour.

  131. manandboy
    Ignored
    says:

    Well done Craig – a wonderful find.

    “The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending.”

    Alistair Carmichael MP 12.11.2010 published in the Shetland Times.

    This was the Alastair Carmichael the voters of O & S voted for in GE2010. They had a right to know that he had changed his mind by GE15. But Carmichael duped his Constituents by keeping the truth hidden. As so many others have said, including the FM, had his Constituents known of his attempts to smear Nicola and his subsequent lies about his involvement, it is hard to imagine that he would be an MP now. Should he survive, this episode will be a new low water mark in British politics.

    Next for enquiry must be Mundell.

  132. ferryman
    Ignored
    says:

    Extract from letter to Shetland times 12/11/10

    The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending.

    Alistair Carmichael MP

  133. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    Socrates @7.53, Yes, my partner informed me of this 2 minutes after I posted, and of course I actually know this, I don’t actually know what I was thinking as of course they are one and the same.

    I think I was grasping at straws in relation to the much remarked upon difference in ‘tone’ of parts of the memo which may indicate that the ‘memo’ itself was ‘reworked’ by someone in the Scotland Office, before being sent to the Telegraph?

    I.E. a different civil servant, not the original civil servant, unfortunately I don’t think the BBC’s article makes it clear as the ‘civil servant’ is not named in this article. I don’t know if the original cs is named in any article?

    Perhaps as you say, this, possibly becomes the ‘direction of travel’ if it doesn’t go away.

    Anyways, felt mildly embarrassed after sending, but whit can a dae when ah’ve already posted! 🙁

  134. muttley79
    Ignored
    says:

    @Doug Daniel

    It’s quite staggering that, even with such an open and shut case, there are still people in Labour and the MSM who try to find an anti-SNP angle in this. They really haven’t learnt a single thing from the mauling Scotland gave them on May 7th.

    (And I include the MSM there, because the result was one big “fuck you” to them as well.)

    Yes, that mirrors what I have been thinking as well. It seems SLAB, the rest of the unionist parties in Scotland, and most of the MSM want to believe the very worst about the SNP, even if it is completely untrue in this case. It is like their reality has become so warped. They see what they believe is the truth through their own demented anti-SNP prism and bitterness. It is a really odd phenomenon. I have difficulty explaining it clearly.

  135. Mealer
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Brotherhood 8.47
    I tried to sign yesterday and again today but the site won’t let me.

  136. Grizzle McPuss
    Ignored
    says:

    I make no apologies for lowering the tone, but what happens next over this Carmichael affair, notably around Westminster, will be very telling in respect to the justice, honour and integrity our politicians have just sworn to.

    If there is merely a loud shuffling of feet as they close ranks around ‘one of their own’, how, other than the 56 SNP MP’s, can you accept the status quo from that establishment? How can you in all honesty believe in what is being and will be delivered as so-called honest & fair government?

    Without satisfactory & appropriate retribution, here at long last will be the truth of the corruption that we’ve always known about, but not quite had the damning evidence presented in such a public way.

    Social media’s a killer eh, Mr Carmichael?

    But this isn’t so much seeking vengeance on Carmichael and seeing him resign (although that is a given) this is also about the political fall-out these actions cause.

    This is an occasion for Nicola Sturgeon and her agents to not allow this matter to rest in respect of the printed press and the broadcast journalists. It’s time that existing legislation was used appropriately and with force to protect the political process of whatever party, whatever the occasion. Without that protection we end up in a state of mistrust, division and the inevitable conspiracy theorists; and that ultimately leaves us in a very skewed and irritated state of affairs.

    Already the talk is “was the GE2015 in Scotland compromised?”…and so it begins.

    And if anything, Carmichael should be forced to make amends for the flagrant waste of public funds and be asked to repay under ‘Proceeds of Crime’ in so far as he has been richly rewarded as a politician.

    In its simplest form; Carmichael’s deception and the resulting costly inquiry was theft; theft from the squeezed public purse. Now if that doesn’t sting most reasoned thinking people, what will?

    But on the matter of a politician’s integrity; this leads me to an issue that I find one of the most shocking and so often conveniently forgotten about. Just remember this…

    …these politicians at Westminster who we expect ‘to do the right thing’ are the very same people that you are expecting to bring a network of suspected historical & current child rapists to account.

    Some of these abusers and rapists are even suspected as coming from within their own community.

    These politicians are the people that you are expecting to stand up with all honest sincerity and demand that action is taken to root out the facts of these crimes.

    These are the people of whatever political persuasion that you are expecting to possess the appropriate morals, acknowledging that some of our most vulnerable have been abused at the hands of those in power and that these same victims must be protected and/or receive justice.

    These are the politicians that you are listening to day-in, day-out pontificating about not leaving the nation’s debts to “our children…our grandchildren…our future generations”. Statements made because we are led to believe in them, that they look out for everyone, especially the young and vulnerable.

    Meanwhile, some of the very same children that are “our next generation” have had, and are still suspected of having their lives ruined by predatory sex perverts.

    If Carmichael can lie and get away with it, and then be supported by many members from within Westminster; does that give you any faith in any of them to do the right thing on any other issues?

    For long enough, Westminster has been an environment of self-protection and entitlement to many of those who mistakenly think that the achievement of gaining a seat on one of the green benches somehow allows them to detach themselves from real society. Many go on to think that merely filling an occasional token constituency appearance will suffice.

    An untouchable attitude appears to develop within some of these people whereby they think that they can do no wrong, even if it is blatantly clear for all to see.

    Well here we are, here’s an opportunity for Westminster to show itself to the electorate that it has listened to some of the previous criticism, has got its act together and is working in the interests of the people (and no longer for their personal bank balance…Mr Rifkind)

    Let’s now hear loudly from the senior political voices as they condemn Carmichael’s actions and further, put into motion new legislation that forthwith, severely punishes all those in positions of power who are proven liars, thieves and frauds.

    In the past 24 hours I’ve vented my spleen over the flagrant abuse of public funds, all in the name of an incompetent politician who knew damn well what the truth was and indeed, what the inquiry would most likely determine.

    I have seethed over this affair all day, not because of the initial crime, but as mentioned, the anticipation of what is coming next…if anything. I am a born cynic.

    I console myself in the knowledge that in today’s society, there is no-where to hide from our online community…and the rest of the world is watching too.

  137. tammcgarvey
    Ignored
    says:

    Well done with this. Shows how rotten the whole cabal of the Westminster establishment and media have become in its attempts to retain power and control through fear, smear and corruption of the democratic process.
    It also makes you wonder what else they have been up to. We can guess some of it but this is desperate stuff by Carmichael and his cronies.
    If he had any honour he would resign. Shame on him.

  138. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    Mutley it is ‘projection’. They think everyone ‘thinks’ and ‘sees’ the world the way they do. It’s just amazing to see such large scale projection. Quite a ‘phenomenon’: we’re actually fighting against a ‘mirage’ that is being perpetuated at levels unprecedented within our particular ‘culture’. Or, more likely many more have awoken to the ‘reality’ of their (establishment and lackeys) ‘received wisdom’ as being utter ‘pish’!

  139. galamcennalth
    Ignored
    says:

    muttley79 says:
    “… unionist parties in Scotland, and most of the MSM want to believe the very worst about the SNP … I have difficulty explaining it clearly.”

    It may simply come down to a fear of change.

    BritNats I have had personal experience of seem quite irrational about the future we desire.

    Anyone actually holding UK is OK views fears that if independence comes their world and role in it might dissolve. It seems to genuinely terrify them. Perhaps those with the greatest personal stakes in the Union believe they have most to lose.

    We are excited about life after independence, they just can’t imagine it and any future they might have in it. They perceive the SNP as a huge personal threat.

  140. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    tammcgarvey,

    “Shows how rotten the whole cabal of the Westminster establishment and media have become in its attempts to retain power and control through fear, smear and corruption of the democratic process.”

    They have always been as rotten as this.

    It is only thanks to the internet, and tireless workers like Stu, that they are being exposed like never before.

    Don’t be surprised if the Tories’ draconian “anti terror” laws include measures to censor sites like this “in the public interest”.

  141. Graham MacQueen
    Ignored
    says:

    Having read the article and the vast majority of comments that follow, I would like to raise a couple of points if I may for discussion:

    Does Mr. Carmichael’s statement in the opening seconds of the above video, where he openly states that he will “cooperate fully with Sir Jeremy Heywoods inquiry, BUT it HAS to be Sir Jeremy Heywood’s inquiry”, maybe somehow imply that Mr Heywood himself may have possibly been willing to cover up his misconduct?

    If Mr. Mundell, in his role as Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, was privy to the falsification of the ‘document’, would it not be ‘reasonable’ to assume that Mr. Cameron may have also had prior knowledge of the intentions to defame the FM? If so, surely he too has to bear some of the responsibility? If Mr. Cameron had no knowledge of their intentions, and Mundell did, then surely he too should be reprimanded by his party, if not by his constituents, in some way?

    With regards to the aforesaid Civil Servant who ‘originally’ wrote the memo: did this person ‘misinterpret’ any other points regarding the FM’s conversation with the French Ambassador, or was it miraculously only the comments pertaining to the FM’s preference of Mr Cameron retaining office that were ‘lost in translation’?

    Finally, unrelated to the article/comments but equally niggling, Is it simply coincidence that Mr Mundell’s spouse has the same surname as Mr Carmichael or is there a family connection between them?

  142. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Lets enjoy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7mTrZPtXfo

    And my all time favourite, takes me back to my days on the trawlers:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgkGrm5516k

    Goodnight folks. Take care.
    😉

  143. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Grizzle McPuss (9.19) –

    Hear hear. Powerful stuff.

  144. Croompenstein
    Ignored
    says:

    @Meindevon –

    Invasion of the McManiacs

    I looked at it Meindevon and wish I hadn’t, absolutely terrible I honestly have tears of rage. It should be filed under clickbait but the ordinary non-informed person will read this and form a bad opinion of our elected reps and that what makes me so angry. Our MP’s have more integrity than their shitty parliament will ever have known…

    https://archive.is/iqI4F

  145. Alan of Neilston
    Ignored
    says:

    Calm Down Folks!! I am sure the British Media will do the right thing and expose this excuse of a Politician (All be it the last Lib. Dem in SCOTLAND) to do the right thing. Here’s HOPING?

  146. Wuffing Dug
    Ignored
    says:

    The union dam is really creaking now.

    A couple more blows and it will burst.
    Some of the truth will out and that will be enough.

    Union will be finished by Christmas at this rate.

    Then the real work can start.

  147. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s a video with loads of tractors in it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_hzhCe4rWs

  148. John
    Ignored
    says:

    “– whose costs have been reported at £1.4m by one English Labour MP quoting a “usually reliable source”, though no official figure is yet available –”

    Just a small nitpick but I think Paul Flynn is a Welsh MP not an English one.

  149. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    Guardian I think is now first to break cover in suggesting by-election likely…it’s moving people. Stewart Hosie is all over this…good man, keep up the pressure.

    https://archive.is/vPNMu

  150. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    Thanks for the warning Croomp. I’m not going near it then. Bastards.

  151. Sinky
    Ignored
    says:

    The British establishment will close ranks over Carmichael and will down play any fall out and don’t expect anglocentric BBC Question Time to allow this issue to be raised.

    Well worth reading Derek Bateman in to-day’s The National over BBC Question Time’s refusal to acknowledge the changed political balance in the House of Commons.

  152. Grizzle McPuss
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    I must have been heard. Front page of the Sunday Herald just issued on Twitter states that there is to be an Ethics probe.

    Here’s hoping that the white-wash stays in the tin.

  153. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Change.org petition now at 9029.

    Picking up a bit, but we need to get to…RAMMING SPEED!:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXh1tW16V-8

    https://www.change.org/p/alistair-carmichael-mp-resign-as-an-mp?

  154. Lochside
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael’s admission surprises no-one on here. Nor the obvious collusion of media and BT parties and assorted pimps.

    While it is not surprising it is sickening and gut wrenchingly awful that 55% of our electorate voted to sustain our continuing enslavement to the political pantomime known as the UK.

    The banks caught out, again, manipulating markets to the tune of millions and no-one is jailed; Clown Prince Charlie doing a PR tour of Ireland,preparing for stepping up to the throne when his maw stops purring permanently ; a naval rating exposes the revolving door security at the nuclear funeral pyre at Coulport and receives detention and msm’s character assassination; a network of paedophiles based in Parliament protected and perverting justice daily.

    Democracy is the victim here. Truth and justice are traduced and made a mockery of. The Romans had bread and circuses..we have stale crusts and punch and judy shows. Poverty and masquerades in a theatre of the absurd..Westminster.

    I shudder at the thought of our representatives being sent to that palace of mirrors, each image more distorted and ugly than the next. Populated by evil clowns like Boris Johnstone and sociopathic Lord snootys like Cameron and his ilk.

    Can they emerge victorious from a moral cesspit full of human vipers?..Only time will tell. All I can dream of is a valid reason to dissolve this oppressive union once and forever.

  155. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Croompenstein says:
    23 May, 2015 at 10:01 pm
    @Meindevon –

    Invasion of the McManiacs

    “Meanwhile, two fellow MPs, Neil Gray and Douglas Chapman, took ‘selfies’ on the Commons’ green benches, while Mhairi Black, a 20-year-old student who became the youngest MP since the 17th century, posed for a tweeted photo on the Commons terrace.

    Black was eating a quintessentially Scottish lunch: chips, bread, and a packet of cola cubes. ‘You can take the girl from Glasgow …”

    Quintessentially Scottish lunch is fun. Keep it coming Daily Heil.

    Meanwhile, has he gone yet?!

  156. Dave McEwan Hill
    Ignored
    says:

    I posted this on the previous thread instead of on here

    I would be very surprised if the Tories were not fully aware of this before the event. I can see no compelling reason to suggest Carmichael would have had any motivation to do this on his own.

    Had the Con/Libdem alliance survived in power things would be very different.

    As it is Carmichael has just been thrown to the wolves to deflect guilt from the rest of them

  157. Wuffing Dug
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Brotherhood @10.08

    Can’t explain why but enjoyed that so cheers.

    Off to watch more eejits on youtube.

  158. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Rancid The Guardian FEAR by election now although they don’t say why or what they are so feart of.

    https://archive.is/1uCXn

    “Some believe Carmichael might try to argue that the investigation should not take place as he was not an MP when the Daily Telegraph published the story on 3 April, as parliament had concluded its five-year term on 30 March. However the cabinet secretary’s inquiries revealed phone calls between Roddin and a Telegraph journalist had taken place on days before publication.”

    Panicky bunch. No mention of the lying slob standing back as £1.4 million public money went down the drain either.

  159. Another Union Dividend
    Ignored
    says:

    “The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending”.

    Alistair Carmichael MP.

    A pity Labour’s Ian Murray didn’t subscribe to this when he and his media allies indulged in gutter politics to misrepresent the SNP candidate Neil Hay in Edinburgh South via he Daily Mail and election leaflets.

    O/t interesting to contrast the mainstream media’s reaction to Bank of England’s pronouncement over EU and their views on Scottish self determination.

  160. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    Dave, don’t always agree with you, but good shout.

  161. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    For anyone who hasn’t seen it, here’s Professor John Robertson’s appearance before the Holyrood committee considering alleged BBC bias.

    Reason I’m posting this is that the current stushie re Fozzie will, in the fullness of time, become the subject of various investigations, inquiries etc etc. As and when those events happen – whether or not they are covered by broadcast media – no-one speaking out against perceived pro-union bias should ever be left alone, exposed, as John Robertson was.

    Certain members of academia (they know who they are – no need to name them) should be hanging their heads in burning shame at their abandonment of a colleague when he needed all the support he could get – shades of McCarthyism, and all the horrors that entailed for ‘intellectuals’. We would all do well to remember that a common dictionary definition of ‘intellectual’ is ‘a person who uses his or her mind’ – based on that definition, most of us would be affronted not to qualify for such a label.

    It is utterly disgusting that not ONE of Prof Robertson’s peers or students summoned the guts to support him – those empty seats behind him speak volumes. When Boothman and his cronies turned up, later, there was, at least, a ‘doughnut’ of support.

    Prof. John Robertson:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkHURxtyH14

    Boothman, McQuarrie et al (who were appearing here after, if memory serves, twice refusing the Scottish government’s request that they attend):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmuoZVJTc-Y

  162. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    We may never get to the bottom of this, but at the very least Carmichael has to fall on his sword.

  163. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:


    Sunniva says:
    23 May, 2015 at 6:01 pm
    I tink the oroginal memo was recorded accurately – until doctored by Mundell or Carmichael.

    The false allegations are additions to the end of the original

    I too have doubts about where the allegations came from. As you say, the memo reads oddly, with two distinct styles. However I would not like to lay to much emphasis on that

    What I do think is interesting is that Mr Carmichael, in his apology, now says that he accepts “the details of the account were not correct”.

    It is clear from some of the reports in the press that it is perfectly possible to avoid that conclusion on the basis of Heywood’s findings: his report does not unambiguously address that question at all, and the wriggle room is duly exploited.

    I am not suggesting that is anything but dishonest on the part of the Telegraph, Independent, and others. My point is that Mr Carmichael does not know anything now that he did not know before.

    From the very start all of the participants made it clear that the account was wholly false. In a court of law that is “best evidence” and is given due weight. As Ms Sturgeon said, that should have been the end of the matter so far as the content of the smear was concerned, and for most reasonable people it was. But not for Mr Carmichael and not for sections of the press and politicians with their own agenda.

    So on what basis does AC now say it was not correct? I submit that he can only know that if he or his SPAD made it up themselves.

  164. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    Rock says:
    23 May, 2015 at 9:01 pm
    Fiona,

    “Most of government accounting is made up. No money changes hands at all”

    “Still haven’t seen any evidence of any money being spent at all.”

    Have you stopped flogging your dead horse now after being at it all night last night?

    Nope. Not had an answer from anyone, anywhere, so far.

    I have not “been at it all night”, as you suggest. But it is a legitimate question and if you have any evidence to show that this is real money I am still interested in seeing it. Do you?

  165. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    This whole episode makes you (if that’s possible) even more sicker over that vote in September.

  166. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    If Carmichael can hide for a few days and think this will all be forgotten, he is very much mistaken.

  167. Charles Edward
    Ignored
    says:

     I can see no compelling reason to suggest Carmichael would have had any motivation to do this on his own.
    @ Dave McEwan Hill

    I’m curious about this too.
    What is gained about this admission?
    It seems that the only genuine option is for Carmichael to leave his post. I can’t see how he might have honestly assumed a letter of apology should suffice.

    He knew the fuss this would cause now and whatever sweeteners he has been promised must counter balance his Spring bank holiday embarrassment.
    Politics moves at a pace and this storm cloud will pass.

    He can’t stay though. What he mistakes as a storm in a teacup is one of the major markers of the climate change that has happened to Scottish politics.
    This individual used to have a respected voice, and a significant role. But in some way there was a demotion, not necessarily an effective dismissal but close.
    Carmichael is drawing attention to himself because now he has less voice.
    Now he has less credibility.
    Compound that with how the whole media storm flashed ("Tractor" - Ed)ous betrayal and deceit to those Scots who wish for change more than anything and you begin to understand the insult.

    I’ve heard a lot of rebuttal on the radio talking about the cult of personality and how it has ‘infected’ politics. Often used as some dismissive nod explaining SNP and the noisy Scots, as if we all have low intelligence and maybe listened to the news once by mistake and think we have an idea?
    What about the personality of individuals ike Carmichael and the horde of twits echoed in the article above?
    I see these toxic individuals having a negative impact on our society, THEIR attitude and beliefs are forcing change.

    He knows he’s had enough, it’s not the same as it was.

    Sometimes I wonder if all this fuss distracts from other stuff?
    There was something interesting about big tobacco and seats in the box/ tickets/ holidays and a big bunch of Tory and other MPs this week. I might be wrong but did I hear liberals mentioned?

    Stumbled across Nick Clegg ‘ s dignity being auctioned on the Internet. No bids yet.

  168. Edward
    Ignored
    says:

    Slightly O/T
    Were we not told last year that if Scotland voted YES, it would not be connected to HS2?

    Well Westminster have just announced that Scotland will not get any high speed connection to HS2 – just announced on the Independent on Sunday

  169. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    This guy was a leading “light” oh dear..and storyteller in the no campaign. Surely the integrity of the whole vote must be brought in to question?

  170. Edward
    Ignored
    says:

    The article in the Independent on Sunday stating that the HS2 rail link will not be extended to Scotland due to ‘no business case’!
    No doubt Scotland will be expected to pay for it though
    https://archive.is/9b3O3

  171. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael is a floating Sheriff at Hamilton, appointed in Oct. 2013, and as far as I can see, is still on the list. The salary is £123k – but surely he would not be paid that as a floater!!!???

    http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/36/0/Sheriffs

    http://wayback.archive-it.org/3011/20130201155610/http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2013/02/newsheriff01022013#

  172. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    Shetland Liberal Democrat MSP Tavish Scott declined to comment.

    Doesn’t that speak volumes!

    His colleague has been proven beyond doubt to be a corrupt liar,
    the Lib Dem Party don’t think that any action should be taken to remove this threat to democracy, and Tavish is now Toast along with his fellow inmates.

    Ta Ta Tav! Hold hands with Ali on the way out!

  173. carjamtic
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian@12:56

    I watched this live and thought the prof. handled himself extremely well,honest answers/statements throughout.

    I have never met him but if I ever do it’s my round.

    Thanks John

    A man of impeccable character,we are walking on the shoulders of giants.

  174. carjamtic
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian@ 10:56

    Doh sory prof. 50 lines 🙂

  175. Al-Stuart
    Ignored
    says:

    INTERESTING AND IMPORTANT DETAIL ABOUT RECALL OF MP ACT, AND HOW IT MAY BE TRIGGERED IN THE CASE AGAINST ALISTAIR CARMICHAEL. GOOD WORK IN THE FORMAL PROCESS BY STEWART HOSIE

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/23/alistair-carmichael-liberal-democrats-byelection-threat-leak-snp-sturgeon

  176. Brian Doonthetoon
    Ignored
    says:

    One of the things that I have become aware of over the past couple of years, reading WOS, is that there are contributors to the comments below the line who don’t actually read the whole contribution from Rev Stu before adding their comment, and there are others who do read Rev Stu’s input, then immediately go to the comment box and add their input – without reading the comments that have gone before.

    Today has a classic example.

    At 3:57 pm, Des posted this:-

    Also out there and available on-line on the Shetland Times website of 2010 vintage – serious students may wish to follow the link:

    “The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending.

    Alistair Carmichael MP”

    http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2010/11/12/letter-from-westminster-49#.VWBURGPnIC8.twitter

    That post was TOTALLY ignored by commenters who latched on to Craig’s later post at 6:46 pm, where he typed;

    Oh this is just too good not share

    and then repeated the link that Des had posted at 3:57 pm three hours earlier!

    The reason I don’t post too often on the main pages is that I find that by the time I’ve read all the comments and get down to the comment box, someone has already made the point that I was going to make.

    I think it’s only common courtesy that if we feel the need to comment, we should read what others have typed before we add in our tuppence worth.

    Please, read before you comment!

    End of rant.

  177. Betty Craney
    Ignored
    says:

    Re the Mc maniacs issue , Diane Abbot has tweeted that she is in the HoC with them and that this is a lot of tosh , there is no misbehaving .

  178. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Al Stuart

    In your link the Guardian says that the original memo was written by a foreign office official. That actually fits with my recollection, but I had thought I was wrong because of an earlier discussion here which stated it was written by a Scotland office official. That is also what the OP says in this thread.

    Now I would put my money on Rev Stu before the Guardian any day of the week. But this matters to me, because like Sunniva, I am not convinced the memo is the work of one hand, and if it came from the foreign office originally, then an addition from within the Scotland office would explain that part.

    Can anyone confirm that the Guardian has just got this wrong? Or is it the case that it originated in the foreign office, with a possible later amendement?

  179. manandboy
    Ignored
    says:

    As the SoSfS, and as the MP for Orkney and Shetland for 14 years, you would think that of all people, Mr Carmichael would know a thing or two about Scottish oil and gas which would be of interest and value to the population of Scotland. And yet he very rarely speaks on the subject. I wonder if his propensity for lying has anything to do with his silence on the subject.

  180. Patrick Roden
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s something to consider:

    Carmichael said something like “If I was still a government minister, I would consider this a resigning matter”

    So is he trying to put some pressure on some people who may have known and who are indeed still government ministers?

    If I was a criminal who had been tried or whatever by the proven liar Alistair Carmichael, I’d be contacting my legal representative, looking to lodge an immediate appeal to attempt to have my conviction quashed on the grounds that Carmichaels expose shows my conviction was ‘unsafe’

    We must never let the Fat Liar or his Lib Dem cronies forget this.

    I have been on to Nick Clegg asking him about his claims to rebuild trust with the voter can be compatible with letting a proven liar remain a Lib Dem MP.

    If you have the time or inclination why not try dropping Nick or some other Lib Dem a similar question.

  181. Al-Stuart
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi VAl, interesting research about the floating sheriff on £123k, but it isn`t the same Carmichael. The Lib Dem fibber`s real name is “Alexander Morrison Carmichael”. The floating sheriff in Dundee is a totally different person. Would have been an interesting development though.

    Meanwhile Westminster village is getting very worried that Carmichael is in real trouble if the Recall of MPs Act goes ahead.

    It will just take 10% of Orkney and Shetlanders to be angry enough to sign a petition then it is off the Gravy Train the big disassembled.

  182. manandboy
    Ignored
    says:

    Let’s face it. Speaking the truth as a Unionist Party politician is tantamount to signing the death warrant on your political career as things stand. Now I’m sure most Scots don’t believe that politicians are going to be perfect in an Independent Scotland. But by God, they had better be a helluva lot more honest than the Unionist crowd we have at present.

    Let the message get out there into unionist political circles – we are sick to the back teeth of being lied to! Anger among the electorate will soon become anger in action. It’s going to happen, because the Tories and the rich have no intention whatsoever of changing their insatiably greedy neo-Liberal ways.

    The population of the UK will not suffer another 5 years of austerity at the hands of the uber-wealthy. The social contract between the Government and the electorate is at breaking point. It will not hold for another five years.

    A few years back, we were living in interesting times. Now, we’re living in dangerous times.

  183. carjamtic
    Ignored
    says:

    Brian@1:06

    Interesting point of view

    For all those reasons and more is why WOS works,people are not afraid of typo’s,changing their posts ‘as to be correct’.

    It is truly ‘freedom of speech’,it is for everbody,as and when they like to comment or just read,I’ve learned more on here than anywhere else.

    Young,old,politically aware,everdays a school day on here,hope it never changes.

  184. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    @Des

    Posted your quote on FB and its had quite a few shares.

    “The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending.

    Alistair Carmichael MP”

  185. Al-Stuart
    Ignored
    says:

    Doonthetoon, I take your point about duplicate postings and web link references, but what happens to some of us is having read 160 posts and then taking 10 mins to type on a slow tablet to post ourselves, along with the 10 minute time delay before posts appear can mean accidental duplication. I for one would much prefer mild repetition than to risk missing an important link. To this end here is a reminder link. but it is absolutely relevant to what is being debated on this thread. In essence our 56 MPs may be able to exact proper justice and democratic fairness in the issue of Alexander Morrison Carmichael, alias Alistair.

    linkhttp://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/23/alistair-carmichael-liberal-democrats-byelection-threat-leak-snp-sturgeon

  186. manandboy
    Ignored
    says:

    To lie or not to lie, that is the question.

    The human mind is designed to believe and to give access to the truth. The human mind will only admit entrance to a lie if it is presented as the truth. It is the truth which is the common currency of all human interaction, including the economic. To become useful, the lie has to look like the truth.

    This is a huge issue in the UK at the moment because of the epidemic of lying in political life. For example, the UK Govt. has persuaded 60 million citizens that Scotland is subsidised by English taxpayers. That is a lie, but it is a lie which supports the way that the UK is financially structured.

    Another example is the lie that Scottish oil and gas fields belong to England. Although it is a lie, this idea supports a large part of how England is financed.

    Society would fall apart if it was not based on people telling the truth and being honest. But politics seems to be the exception. When a member of the public tells a lie about paying for an item in the supermarket, he or she could end up in court. But when a politician tells a lie, no matter how big, he or she is protected and cannot be prosecuted. This is madness.

    All over the UK, individuals are going to have to make up their minds about the kind of society we all wish to live in. Do we want to live with lying politicians all the time, or are we going to grow up and start building our politics on the truth.

  187. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    Al, Here’s the article archived.

    https://archive.is/vPNMu

    Archiving as well as retaining a copy of any given article, should it be altered later, also prevents revenue clicks for the rags.

  188. John Moss
    Ignored
    says:

    I think we should be formally asking David Mundell exactly what he knew about this matter and his role in it.

    He was Alastair Carmichael’s deputy. Can we trust him? Should we be paying his ministerial wages?

    Time to put the spotlight on David, the sole English Conservative in Scotland.

    P.S. I use the term “English Conservative” because I ‘m assuming that like “Scottish Labour” that “Scottish Conservatives” is not a distinct legal entity but a creative fiction intented to make us think they are an independant enitity – staffed and run from Scotland that makes its own decisions independentlay from it’s non-Scots counterpart.

    P.P.S I don’t believe the Scottish Conservatives exist.

  189. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    I think Al, the point Brian is making, is that by reading the thread you might find that the link that you are about to post may already have been posted, and then you don’t have to worry about it being missed, as it’s already there.

    Sometimes, in the above example (guardian), whilst reading the said article, you will see at what time the article was actually published. A quick scroll down a thread like this one, roughly going by timestamps can show you quite quickly after the publishing time, whether anyone has picked up on it and therefore no need to read entire thread.

    It’s also just about acknowledging those who have many hours before already provided the link. Otherwise as Brian says, after comments have been made about said article, it can become very repetitive. That’s all 🙂

  190. Craig
    Ignored
    says:

    Brian,

    I take your point, in my defence, I did read the whole article and then the comments till the last one when I was on, I then came back a few hours later and didn’t think to read from where the last comment I read cos I was so pleased with what “I came across” and shared it.

    I hope this clarifies that I wasn’t “TRYING” to claim a bit of glory in case you thought I was and take the limelight away from Des

    It’s not a contest to see who gets the best approval, we all know who does and it’s the chap who does all the hard work for us wingers.

    O/T
    Well done Ireland and also to Sweden

  191. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    Mike Small’s take on it over at Bella…

    “What’s changed in the last few months is the idea that you can get away with this any more, that it’s okay, that you can ride it out. That’s not okay any more.”

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/05/24/the-gummy-bear-omnishambles/

  192. Petra
    Ignored
    says:

    So MANY brilliant and informative posts on here such as Grizzles and Lochsides.

    Thanks for that.

    We internalise and analyse the facts as they are fed to us (most often being thrown crumbs of (mis) information). Whatever the case I think something absolutely stinks here.

    We are all making a big hoo-ha about this but let’s face it Carmichaels behaviour and lies are the Political / MSM NORM, as witnessed most recently in the lead up to the Referendum. How many people were brought to task then? The Celtic League listed complaints to the UN about Cameron’s behaviour but nothing was done by anyone else at all for example the SNP. Maybe there were too many complaints for them to deal with at that time?

    I reckon that MANY people were privy to this scam and Carmichael thought he would get away with it: but then something changed.

    Someone, Cameron?, decided that he would be fed to the lions. Well why would he do that? To decimate the Libdems in Scotland? To attempt to totally decimate all opposition in the UK .. Libdems and Labour? To penalise them for turning on the Tories pre-Referendum? To protect Mundell?

    These people normally close ranks to protect each other especially against parties such as the SNP. They have the power to let things drag on for years, drop, dilute and twist to the point of duping us all. It hasn’t happened here. I’m just asking myself why?

    There’s more to this than meets the eye. The investigation / s should have been recorded and made available to us all especially as we, the taxpayers, are footing the bill. We the Electorate vote for these individuals and we are paying for Carmichaels and Heywoods wages. We should demand that there is absolute transparency in relation to this and all future cases. I for one am sick and tired of all of the Westminster secrecy and subterfuge.

    Then we get to the 1.4 million spent on this case. I don’t know where this figure came from but if it’s correct it’s an absolute disgrace.

    Investigation ….. you phone a number of people and ask them to make themselves available to be questioned at a certain place at a certain time. You and ‘they’ are already being paid by US for their time. They have travel / accommodation expenses. The talks will last over a couple of days (throw in a concert at night, a few meals and some bubbly). Well they claim for all of this too and we pay for it. Someone takes the minutes of the meeting and a wee secretary types up the report. Their wages too are being paid for by US. As a UK taxpayer, paying through the nose, I want to see an itemised bill for this investigation. Or are we going to find out that a rip-off jobs for the boys Private Company was involved?

    Carmichael should resign ASAP. An enquiry should now be carried out in relation to Davidsons manipulative behaviour re. her tweets on polling day. We should demand to know about the outcome of the Police investigation into her pre-Referendum postal vote knowledge too. We should demand to know if the Libdems paid their £800,000 Police Scotland bill. If not we’re left to pay it. £800,000 on top of 1.4 million racked up by the Libdems. Did Wullie Rennie play a part in this the Carmichael slander / libel case? I would reckon that wee slug surely did. And as a bye he should be resigning just as Miliband, Clegg and Murphy did when they were all booted right up the backside. He and Davidson have been hiding behind the Labour catastrophe.

    We should all become pro-active in outing all of the liars. Newspapers such as the Telegraph and Independent should be reported. Better still charged with publishing libelous material. The BBC should be hounded to death with complaints or better still just don’t pay your license fee. Spend the money on supporting pro-Scottish sites such as Bellacaledonia and weegingerdug. Queries should be made to STV in relation to their lack of reporting on issues such as Trident (potential accidents / Nuclear radiation leaks) and fracking (in particular who benefits from this).

    I’ve just about had it with the whole corrupt cabal of narcissistic, lying crooks (and some paedophiles) that are running this country: running it into the ground in fact.

    Time now to say **power to the people**

  193. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    So lets consider,
    A meeting between the first minister and the Ambassador of a foreign powers exact words were recorded (what by, stenographer or recording device?) I take it then that means the same would have been done when Cameron was having “private chats” with Putin, Obama,Tony Abbot, et al when he was asking them for support for his anti Scottish independence effort, so we’ll be having those recordings then chop chop.

  194. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    LPW says unseating Carmichael “would be worth a punt” I think unseating him would be a gift to the libdems and the chances are the Orcadians would just elect another libdem back to square one,
    let the bastard stew in his own juice, we have the Scottish select committee to keep chucking more wood on the fire under his pot.

  195. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Unionists/MSM are just a bunch of manipulating criminal, greedy liars. There are no depth they would not stoop to keep them ignorantly and desperately troughing on public money. They are disgusting. The Telegraph (Barclay Bros) are disgusting. Are they worried they will be sued? If only. The have had to pay out £Millions in compensation for their criminal actions. The BBC just lies and does not follow it’s own Charter. The Head of the BBC, appointed by Cameron is a defrauding, criminal banker accomplice, who should be in jail. Appointed so the Tories can sell the off the BBC, so they and their associates can plunder loads of public money (£Millions) in consultant contracts, fees and commission. Making the general public mugs pay more for a worse service.

    This latest episode with bring the Unionist/MSM actions back to the fore and lose them even more revenues or support. Some ignorant, arrogant greedy people just never learn. Most of them should be in jail. Including Press proprietors who illegally bribe public officials. Civil servants feeding them unresearched public stories covered by the Official Secret Act.

    Carmichael is just jealous of Nicola. Nicola is what Carmichael would never be a good, caring politician.

  196. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    ‘A civil servant still unnamed in the Scottish Office’ – M15 – the Official Secrets Act. Used for Westminster cover up.

    The Scottish Office costs Scottish taxpayer £100,000 a year, so a numpty can brief against Scotland. The money could be better spent.

  197. Bugger (the Panda)
    Ignored
    says:

    oooffff

    Must read by all

    http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2010/11/12/letter-from-westminster-49#.

    Karma catches up with Carmichael

  198. Socrates MacSporran
    Ignored
    says:

    Perhaps a wee bit O-T, but, I saw someone refer to this above.

    The Daily Heil ran a well-publicised anti-SNP MPs piece this week. In the piece they indicated how terribly badly the “McManiacs” as hey dubbed the 56, had behaved towards that national treasure Denis Skinner.

    I laughed out loud at that, the idea of the Heil backing the “Beast of Bolsover” – that’s not comedy gold, that’s comedy platinum.

    Any way, I got my weekly e-mail from my former school friend, who now lives in some style in the Sudetenland, he was having a rant at how outrageously the SNP was behaving inside the Mother of Parliaments.

    Other than either cutting-off communications with a friend of over 50 years, of cautioning him against believing anything he reads in the Daily Heil or the Torygraph (something I have often done before), what can I do?

  199. Achnababan
    Ignored
    says:

    If you are wondering why Alexander Carmichael is called Alistair, then an answer may rest with the Gaelic, where Alistair (many various spellings) is the known Gaelic form for Alexander.

  200. Sinky
    Ignored
    says:

    UKOK press completely ignoring Labour infighting and the Carmichael lies stories on the front pages this morning.

    And Sunday Times even gives credence to the ramblings of the disgruntled former Scotch Whisky Association who has wasted millions of taxpayer’s money to oppose the democratic decision on minimum pricing.

  201. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    Patrick Roden says:
    24 May, 2015 at 1:19 am
    Here’s something to consider:

    Carmichael said something like “If I was still a government minister, I would consider this a resigning matter”

    So is he trying to put some pressure on some people who may have known and who are indeed still government ministers?

    I think the story below sums up Mr Carmichael’s hopes.
    Tory Cabinet Minister Maria Miller Scammed her MP’s expenses by Circa £45K and was asked to pay back only £4K?
    The wonderful Westminster system let her step down from the cabinet after enduring public pressure, however an act of Gross Misconduct in that environment means you keep your £60K salary
    and £200K expenses.

    This is was this particular leach is trying to point out. If he was still a minister he would stand down, but you “must” let him keep his snout in the Westminster trough, guilty or not.
    Not for me Michael! Prison is to good for you, after you pay back that £1.4 million of inquiry costs.

    • It emerged Mrs Miller even lobbied a committee of MPs, who had already reduced what she had to repay by £40,000, to try to persuade them she should repay only £4,000.
    Mrs Miller has been accused of trying to bully Kathryn Hudson, Parliament’s independent standards commissioner, in an apparent attempt to block the investigation into her expenses claims.
    Mrs Miller threatened to make a formal complaint about the commissioner, refused to provide documents to justify her claims and employed a lawyer to try to limit the scope of the investigation against her.
    When The Telegraph first began examining her expenses claims in December 2012, Jo Hindley, Mrs Miller’s special adviser, telephoned the newspaper to “flag up” the fact that at the time Mrs Miller was involved in discussions over the future of press regulation in the wake of the Leveson Inquiry into newspaper ethics.
    Between 2005 and 2009, Mrs Miller had claimed £90,000 in mortgage interest and other housing costs on the home. She designated as her main house a rented property in her constituency in Basingstoke. In all, she rented three houses there.
    But Mrs Hudson recommended that Mrs Miller should hand back £45,000 in over-claimed allowances and concluded that the minister should have declared her house in Wimbledon as her main home.
    The Commons Standards Committee, made up of 10 MPs and three lay members, agreed with Mrs Hudson that the Wimbledon house should have been designated as the main home but said that under the guidance at the time it was “reasonable” to designate it as the second home and ordered Mrs Miller to pay back only £5,800 on a minor over-claim on her mortgage.
    The senior minister, who said Mrs Miller should quit, said her career had been saved by the committee’s decision to largely ignore the commissioner’s findings. “What Maria Miller has done is serious but she has been cleared by the body set up to investigate her,” said the minister. “The fault is with the system.”

  202. davidb
    Ignored
    says:

    http://t.co/tWk7RsYzbi

    OT but interesting analysis by some guy called Davidson. Might have been an MP once, but forgotten now.

    Note comment on Labour membership numbers. If only we knew we could buy a branch.

  203. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    https://storify.com/theSNP/telegraph-and-the-scottish-labour

    This is a good account of the whole Carmichael affair and in passing it answers my question about which department the memo came from. I had forgotten that the Foreign Office denied all knowledge of it and it was later admitted it came from the Scotland office.

  204. Almannysbunnet
    Ignored
    says:

    Brian Doonthetoon says:
    24 May, 2015 at 1:06 am
    I think it’s only common courtesy that if we feel the need to comment, we should read what others have typed before we add in our tuppence worth.
    It can be a bit of a pain. The Carmichael Shetland Times story is a good example.
    The simple method I use is ctrl F. This opens a search box and you can do a quick check before repeat posting. If you ctrl F shetlandtimes you will see that the article has now been “ooh look at this’d” four times. Still a cracking link though. Hoisted by your own petard comes to mind 🙂

  205. terry
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Brotherhood says:
    23 May, 2015 at 10:56 pm
    For anyone who hasn’t seen it, here’s Professor John Robertson’s appearance before the Holyrood committee considering alleged BBC bias..

    Thanks for posting – I hadn’t seen it.

    For starters all the neeps who have appeared on radio saying that Carmichael should stay – why don’t they pay the estimated £1.4 million that this disgraceful affair has cost us? I certainly don’t want to pay for a manipulative liar out of my taxes.

  206. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    I had a look at the next Lib Dem leader’s Tweets, Tim Farron, https://twitter.com/timfarron/status/601815873586896897

    Very little on there about asking for his plans to rebuild his party on a foundation of Lies, Corruption and Cover up?

    If anyone has a minute, it might be good to advise him this is not going to go away.

    Just watched the Marr show with all the newspaper headlines.
    Not a solitary mention of Carmichael’s Corrupt Cabal?
    Can’t be a headline if its just another story about the Scots being ripped off by a Westminster representative?

    They did comment on the new High Speed Rail Link.
    Remember being told that if we were to vote Yes, this rail link would not come to Scotland, well you voted No and No you don’t get the High Speed Rail Link.
    Its for the English only, but you will be paying for it!

    We know that there are pedophile politicians, we know that the children associated with their “visits” have gone “missing”, we know, the Civil servants and High ranking police officers have covered up for them, we know the UK political system is rotten to the core with corrupt payments and contracts, and people worry that Scotland couldn’t survive without Westminster sharing all this with us?

    I desperately want to give it a real good try!

  207. fraise
    Ignored
    says:

    Socrates Macsporran 8,34
    inform your friend even labour think this story rubbish.
    Diane Abbot tweeted about it yesterday.
    Parliament live shows Chris Law and Dennis Skinner sharing joke prior to being sworn in.
    The tory press just trying to demonise ( Diane Abbot ) SNP

  208. X_Sticks
    Ignored
    says:

    There was an excellent interview with Prof Tom Devine on GMS this morning at about 8:30. Well worth a listen.

    Not up on iPlayer yet so I can’t post a link but I’d urge anyone who hasn’t heard it to look it up later.

  209. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Why are 83 year olds, unprofessionally, hogging Westminster seats. There are no 83 year old Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Police, Firemen, Civil servants, Public sector workers, Engineers, tradesmen etc. So why are there 83 year old MP’s. There are enough members (800) stuffed into the unelected HoL,which can delay but can’t any legislation. A complete waste of time and money. Jobs for life. Illegal, undemocratic Westminster style.

  210. Swami Backverandah
    Ignored
    says:

    … Breaking!!! …

    Alistair Carmichael to write book after dumping in by-election.
    Working Title … “Alan Cochrane – My Part in His Downfall”.

  211. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    I had a look at some of the Carmichael Corruption Petitions,
    Shetland Times, 38 Degrees, and Change.
    Rough figures show £7,500, to £9,5D0 votes or signatures per site?

    God help us if something of this magnitude can’t generate 10,000
    signatures. Has someone formed an Apathy Party during the night?

  212. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    Frenchgate should be a much bigger story throughout the media and the chattering classes.

    It isn’t because the view in Unionist circles is that any attack on the SNP is in the national interest. So whether it was baseless, or is a wider conspiracy, or involves deceit, or wasting public money … none of that is important to them. Attacking the barbarians at the gate by any means available is their priority.

  213. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    This does feel more like a ‘Better Together’ dirty tricks than Carmichael flying solo.

    He’s clearly taking the heat to protect his unionist masters. Highly commendable, but heads will still have to roll, starting with Carmichaels.

    ‘Scotland please stay so we can undermine you at every turn’. Better together, Aye, right.

  214. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    had a look at the next Lib Dem leader’s Tweets, Tim Farron,

    With the exception of a few stalwarts, the Lib-Dem party is dead, gone the same way as the BNP. They’re unelectable.

  215. desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael..aka The Anti-Santa

    All around the country millions of kids are waking up and excitedly asking “Has he gone?”

  216. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Should Carmichael not get struck off and debarred for breaking the professional Oath and lying. Unprofessional conduct and Gerrymandering against electoral rules.

    Could Unionist politicians sink any lower? Nick Clegg lying. Conman Cameron. Labour lies.

  217. call me dave
    Ignored
    says:

    @X-sticks

    Yes it was an excellent few minutes and drew together so many strands in our past and recent social history which contributed to ‘the perfect storm’

    PS:

    What purpose did Henry Mc serve in his interview, standing in for official labour, was he trying to paper over the cracks or encourage the K Macintosh via that serious bullying was exerting pressure on his supporters? Ach! Who cares anymore.

  218. gordoz
    Ignored
    says:

    Latest …

    Exit Poll says …..

    Carmichael will survive ; as he did not act alone ..

    He was major player in coalition government with Tories and trail goes right to the top.

    Story will be buried now

    Ahemm !!

  219. west wales
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T
    During Eurovision last night Graham Norton read out some of the e-mails from BBC viewers while the voting phone numbers were being shown. Loads of people must have e-mailed the BBC who then made a selection. If you go to the iplayer at 2 hours 37 minutes in you can hear Graham read out an e-mail from a group of people hoping for ‘points for England’.

    Well done again BBC.

  220. Edward
    Ignored
    says:

    Effijy

    I think the problem is that there is no coordination, so we have two petitions

    Most likely people (me included) only signed one of the petitions, not both

    So most likely there are more than 10,000 original signatures (that is not duplicated)

  221. Jet Jockey
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael belongs to the untouchables, a lawyer, procurator fiscal, they can do anything they wish and know they can get away with it , a website made that clear regarding two solicitors who colluded in a court case one had been a procurator fiscal the other was promoted to the status of a sheriff, there was ample evidence the two had colluded in the court case , the Law society were notified , the police were notified,the outcome so far nothing has been done.

  222. cearc
    Ignored
    says:

    Another excellent and positive reason for a by-election is expressed BTL of this item,

    http://www.shetnews.co.uk/viewpoint/10707-opinion-the-isles-deserve-another-vote

    “If Mr Carmichael has any real concern for the islands he will consider how much value a by-election would have. easily £500,000 would be generated for the local economy as the BBC, Sky, ITN and C4 plus the dead tree press flood the islands with reporters. If Mr Carmichael has any care for his constituents he would consider this a very valuable revenue stream.”

  223. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    West Wales: If you go to the iplayer at 2 hours 37 minutes in you can hear Graham read out an e-mail from a group of people hoping for ‘points for England’.

    Can you help me out by posting the exact sentence spoken? Many thanks. 🙂

  224. Brotyboy
    Ignored
    says:

    @Stoker

    Your posts have consistently plumbed the depths of inarticulacy.

    If you can’t understand why the Rev has asked us not to use certain terms and to behave as if we were posting to a ‘No’ voter, then you should be asking yourself what you’re doing on this site.

    Please be assured that there is no limit to how much I despise you for the harm you bring to our cause.

  225. Bittie Glakit
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve just made a wee picture of Mr Carmichael that you might like.

    http://mistygee4.wix.com/-page-altered-images

  226. DerekM
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Effijy

    Some of these sites are a bit dodgy imo and i imagine there are more people out there who think the same,now if the petition was run from say a wings branch i would sign it no problem,its not that i have something to hide its just my email inbox is straining with junk already and i have become cautious about where i enter it online.

    And anyway its not us that need to raise a petition its the people of the Northern Isles constituency who need to do it only their voice will be heard on this matter.

  227. west wales
    Ignored
    says:

    Who is the SNP chair of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee going to be? Also, how quickly can they have Carmichael and Mundell and others appear to answer questions about memogate?

  228. Louis B Argyll
    Ignored
    says:

    THIS “LIE” IS SO BIG, IT’S SHADOW FALLS ACROSS SO MANY OTHER INDIVIDUALS THAT THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING.

    Fair enough that the French “diplomats” keep quiet, but why arent the other WM parties making noises..?

    This is bigger than an expenses scandal, this man must be hounded back to the private sector where he can lie for a living.

    Petitions from constituents can be easily pigeonholed by defenders of “the liar”.

    The SNP is in parliament, they have the right to be relentless in their insistence, that the “liar” has lost the trust of the house.

    Give him no quarter.

  229. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    Brotyboy: Stoker – If you can’t understand why the Rev has asked us not to use certain terms and to behave as if we were posting to a ‘No’ voter,

    That’s good advice in general terms, if often inadequate in the face of the vicious attacks from the hard-Right and Scot-unionists. However, I think Wings perceives there are degrees of passion and so allows some leeway, Stoker someone who understands the assembly of imperialist armoury we are fighting.

    When you have a Secretary of State, a Scot, plotting malicious business against his own country’s elected government, diplomacy can seem like respect given to the wrong people.

  230. gillie
    Ignored
    says:

    The funniest aspect of this botched smear was that the Daily Telegraph allowed itself to be duped by Alistair Carmichael.

    Even now the Torygraph can’t bring itself to face the truth.

  231. Crash
    Ignored
    says:

    With 8 MPs there is just no way that Carmichael is going to resign over this. That would be a loss of 12.5%. Never going to happen.

    What will happen is that he will go MIA for a few months in the hope that this all blows over, which it will as attention moves elsewhere.

    In five years time it won’t be forgotten but will have no bearing on the next election as the power of the story will have totally faded by then. C’est la vie.

  232. Wuffing Dug
    Ignored
    says:

    Brotboy

    I don’t think Stoker has to ask himself anything at all.

    Free speech n that.

    You want to mod this board yourself?, sounds like it.

    You would kill it with your haughty disdain.

    We’ve already got the msm doing that job.

  233. Harry McAye
    Ignored
    says:

    Saw an eye catching front cover of the Sunday Times supplement this morning, a large pic of Nicola with the SNP banner behind her. Flipped it over, naively expecting a generous article perhaps on the incredible recent achievement s of the party. But no, of course, instead some pish from the Rev’s pal Euan McColm, something along the lines of “say anything against Nicola’s one party state and the tartan trolls will get you”. I trust rev will wade through the effluent at some point today so we don’t have to. To think some Scots buy this and agree with it!

    Just checked twitter, without clicking links, seems it’s about companies afraid to come out against independence lest we send round the heavy mob.

  234. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    Crash: there is just no way that Carmichael is going to resign

    In which case he must prepare himself to be confronted with ‘liar’ thrown at him in various ways every interview and debate in which he participates. No one can take his word as truth.

    His lying will stick to him like dog crap on his shoes.

  235. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Should Carmichael not get struck off

    He apologised for his “error of judgement” and now its all being airbrushed out of teamGB news, certainly by they Pacific creep show.

    As he showed on C4, Carmichael is probably a pathological liar, Could you stand in front of tv news crews, and millions of people and lie so hard and so calmly about such monumental historic lying and lies that were almost certainly orchestrated by and for the Conservative 2015 election campaign. They knew full well SNP were heading for a landslide election so up popped Carmicheal’s concocted French gate memo.

    Extremely dirty business teamGB elections.

    Or, why is Carmichael NOT being asked to apologise for lying at Scotland on C4 news in April by our noble and honest UKOK media or even just that one BBC shill Cooke?

    Talk about naivety eh? Is this kind of country we want to live in Scotland? Is it?

    What Cooke tweeted when he was caught lying to Scotland on the great Jim Murphy riots of 2015.

  236. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    @DerekM
    And anyway its not us that need to raise a petition its the people of the Northern Isles constituency who need to do it only their voice will be heard on this matter.

    Precisely right. It is interesting that the right of recall legislation does not appear to include any formal mechanism for a petition which is required to make it a reality. That is in line with a lot of the stuff which looks quite good on paper, but is difficult or even impossible to use: like the doctrine of sovereignty of the scottish people, as one important example

    In future I hope that the SNP MP’s will press to ensure that progressive rights are accompanied by detailed processes for exercising those rights: without that they are pretty meaningless.

    However on this issue it is not impossible and I hope the people of Orkney and Shetland do it. I have signed one of the petitions but I now wish I had not because it may be that their existence distracts the folk of those islands from the need to make and sign the only effective vehicle: which is a petition from their local people.

  237. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    @ heedtracker

    I agree that it is quite instructive to watch AC lying on the telly. While we know that we are often lied to and misled, we seldom get to watch it when there is no doubt that it is lies. So we cannot often see how good they are at it. Usually there is more ambiguity, or they are cleverer in using weasel words so that they can deny what they have done.

    It is that which makes this such a big issue: and it also that interview which shows how routine this is for them. You have to practice to do that so well, I think

  238. Swami Backverandah
    Ignored
    says:

    … Breaking!!! …

    Simon Telegraph, in exile after fall from grace, to write book.
    Working Title: “Alistair Carmichael: My Part in His Part in Alan Cochrane’s Downfall”.

    (this joke could run and run 😀

  239. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    DerekM says:
    24 May, 2015 at 10:50 am
    @ Effijy

    Some of these sites are a bit dodgy imo and i imagine there are more people out there who think the same,now if the petition was run from say a wings branch i would sign it no problem,its not that i have something to hide its just my email inbox is straining with junk already and i have become cautious about where i enter it online.

    Hi Derek,

    I’ve put my name to all of them. If you are not standing up these these corrupt officials, you are just where they want you.
    Lying down!

    I do get an occasional e-mail from them, and some present issues that I was unaware of. If it were to change, its all too easy to block them with your Junk Mail settings.

    I cannot agree that it is only for the people of Orkney and Shetland to raise petitions. This is a genuine threat to Nationwide democracy. Everyone needs to declare that it is just not acceptable to win office by lying, cheating and wasting scarce public funds.

    You and I will be contributing to the £1.4 million inquiry cost and the fees for the re-run election there, and the Lib Dems £800,000 Policing fees that they won’t hand over! I protest!

  240. Phronesis
    Ignored
    says:

    There is a somewhat paradoxical objective in the assertion ‘these things happen’ (i.e. blatant lying) to appear strong and confident whilst being in a politically very vulnerable position. It is a sclerotic account of an extremely serious and damaging event- Mr Carmichael must resign, of that there is no question- his constituents should take affirmative action and demand a re-run of the election (whatever the outcome).The Prime Minister is fond of saying ‘lets start from this proposition: we are a family of democratic nations’ when he talks up the notion of equality of being seen and heard in our one nation state.The democratic process in this seat has been seriously undermined and the constituents let down badly, therefore the WM establishment should offer up a mea culpa and allow another election otherwise our one nation family with its fragile democratic identity is about to permanently fragment.

  241. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    fiona
    aye very educational indeed, priceless.
    captured on social media to be rolled out when in need of reminders!

  242. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    Just read some else’s Labour Party Sunday Mail.

    According to their propaganda pages, Carmichael only leaked the memo!

    All worked very carefully to let their illiterate readers think
    that the French Gate story is actually true, but he maybe shouldn’t have let it leaked out!

    Unadulterated nonsense!

    I Vow never to pick up this crap again. It takes me to a bad place.

    I had considered it worthwhile reading what others have to say on these matters, but it is 100% safe to say that you couldn’t trust the date on Rag like this!

  243. robertknight
    Ignored
    says:

    Complaint pending to BBC re. Friday’s Reporting Scotland and Tim Reid’s selective reporting of inquiry findings, suggesting that questions remain with regards to FM’s conversation with Ambassador.

  244. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Fiona says:
    24 May, 2015 at 11:24 am
    @ heedtracker

    Carmichael is a fabulous liar though. If you were a cop, could you tell he was a liar on C4 news?

    The only way these guys are able to so calmly pull off these kind of extraordinary shystes and keep in mind, a lot of hacks, tv and radio people do this for a living and every day of their working lives, is all down to the fact that between their ears they truly believe they are doing a good job, they are doing what they are paid to do and paid very well too.

    They are not crooks in the dock or poverty stricken shop lifters getting their collars felt, they are all employees of the British state in Scotland and there are no rules and no accountability, except in the polling booth, for now.

    Maybe this whole giant fraud was all concocted by one man like Carmichael, maybe the great Murphy riots were too, but everything to do with Carmichael’s memo-gate was all completely and totally invented solely for the Cameron Conservative win in England and Carmichael’s a Scottish MP for Orkney and Shetland.

    The next Orkney and Shetland elections will probably show what Carmichael’s electorate think of all of the above.

  245. Legerwood
    Ignored
    says:

    In its editorial today on the memogate affair the Sunday Herald mentions the, and quotes, from Mr Carmichael’s 2010 letter to the Shetland Times so word is getting around about his previous thoughts on smears.

    Unfortunately in an article on memogate in another section of the paper it perpetuates the misconception that the civil servant was present in the room during the meeting between Ms Sturgeon and the French Diplomats. The wording in the report of the official inquiry is ambiguous on this point and is clearly being used to try to make some doubt to persist about what Ms Sturgeon actually said.

    One aspect of this affair that has attracted little comment has been the way in which Mr Carmichael’s actions were taken with complete disregard for the fact that these senior diplomats were involved and the likely fall out from that for diplomatic relations.

    The fact that the French Ambassador and the French Consul general issued statements within hours of the story breaking denying that Ms Sturgeon had made the remarks attributed to her is almost unprecedented and underlines how seriously they viewed the distortion of events contained in the memogate.

    Mr Carmichael has shown a very cavalier attitude to the truth and, as a senior member of the Government, to the effect of his lying on diplomatic relations with our neighbours.

  246. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    Can anyone advise on the situation regarding a re-run election
    for Orkney & Shetland, if 10% of the electorate demand one?

    Is it 10% of the 27,728 who turned out or is it of 10% of the
    eligible electorate, Circa 34,500 ?

    With SNP having gained 8,590 votes, it looks like less than half of them registering their protest, would see a re-run take place?

  247. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    If the Lib Dems, or indeed Westminster had any serious ideas about rebuilding trust in Scotland, then it should be them turning the heat on Carmichael… Nothing.
    The establishment is happy for us to amuse ourselves bear baiting this liar because it suits their agenda. Our whole referendum fell into the trap of letting the Unionist media set the agenda, with silly little arguments, arguments we all knew to be winnable in a fair contest, to divert our eyes from the fact the contest was anything but fair.
    Decency would require Carmuchaels party to throw him out and start putting the issue behind them. I just feel we are being thrown a bone to keep us distracted and amused.

  248. Brian Powell
    Ignored
    says:

    How could a civil servant ‘overhear’? Was he crouching on the window sill outside? Making the tea in the corner?

  249. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael is a fabulous liar though.

    Easy done when you have a podgy face and dead eyes. 🙂

  250. Les Wilson
    Ignored
    says:

    As Derek Bateman suggests, Mundell would also have know this was a fake, he shared offices with this slimeball.

    If it could be proved he knew, then it would make his position decidedly rocky, and if he had to resign the Tories would have no mandate at all in Scotland.

    But also pointed out by Bateman, the Tories will defend him in all ways possible. However, Wings could look into the possibility and pose the question.

  251. DerekM
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Effijy

    I understand your frustration on this i was just pointing out some possible reasons why the numbers might be so low.

    This is a constituency matter it is up to the constituents and it is only them who can do anything about this ,we can shout and scream if we want we will not be heard ,only the people of the Northern Isles voice will be heard and the same would be true if it were in any other UK constituency

    it is just the way it is until we can get something better ,will it be enough i have no idea

  252. west wales
    Ignored
    says:

    @Great Beater at 10.35am

    Graham Norton read out an e-mail from a Eurovision party in Coventry that said ‘we want England to have douze points from someone please’.

    If Scotland had been taking part we might have given England or rUK douze points.

    Nil points to the BBC of course.

  253. James123
    Ignored
    says:

    Regarding the Eurovision UK, England, same shit shenanigans.

    Norton reads out email “we want England to have douze points from someone please”

    Yes cmon England, I mean UK, whatever, BetterTogether.

  254. Fred
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Valerie, Carmichael is indeed a “floater”, that would be the toilet variety.:)

    Ming Campbell doesn’t think it is a resigning matter, this is the same Ming Campbell who charged the taxpayer for two Georgian bedside cabinets for his Edinburgh townhouse & was greetin in the street when fun-oot!

    The cost of a by-election in the Northern Isles must be considerable given the logistics involved, that added to the £1.4 million for the enquiry is quite incredible. Power corrupts, truly never more applicable than in this case.

  255. Patrick Roden
    Ignored
    says:

    Fiona says:

    “Precisely right. It is interesting that the right of recall legislation does not appear to include any formal mechanism for a petition which is required to make it a reality.”

    As Effijy says, it needs 10% of the electorate to sign a petition to have AC recalled, to initiate a By-Election.

    I’m not sure if the 10% relates to the people who voted, but I would imagine it would be 10% of the ‘eligible to vote’

    Still very doable, if we can get activists chappin doors and asking for signatures.

  256. Fred
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Brain Powell, only “Allo Allo” could do this justice mon ami. 🙂

  257. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    Another poll out today showing it’s only the auld yins that are going to stop us winning a second vote. A massive 68% against. Yet the overall poll shows 53% no. We need to seriously target this age group.

  258. Lollysmum
    Ignored
    says:

    Orkney & Shetland have difficulties in getting the news out about Carmichael. They aren’t as fortunate as the mainland due to problematic broadband access. It just isn’t reliable even if they do have connections to it. This is about infrastructure or rather the lack of it so they are reliant upon TV & newspapers for their news.

    Broadcast media & MSM have been instructed to kill this story-hence the non appearance of articles.Their premise is that if they can shut it down today it will go away.

    We can help with that by keeping up the pressure by posting related stories on Twitter using #CarmichaelMustGo & Facebook. Also keep asking journalists why they aren’t reporting these stories about AC.Asking politicians why AC being allowed to lie then cover up his actions etc.

    The pressure needs to extend beyond the Bank Holiday & well into next week to gain any traction. They want this to die a death but we can’t let that happen. So come on folks do something to help here.

    #CarmichaelMustGo needs to be trending throughout UK as it was on Friday. Make people sit up & take note that Scots aren’t taking this insult to it’s people & SG lying down.

  259. cearc
    Ignored
    says:

    Legerwood,

    I agree. The diplomacy is being ignored most of the time.

    For the press and various politicians to still be inferring that the Ambassador and Consul-General are lying should really be taken more seriously.

    The SNP should be saying at every opportunity , ‘So, you are saying that the French Ambassador is lying?’

  260. Doug McG
    Ignored
    says:

    Now that the election is over , I’m feeling a bit flat politically , nothing to really get my mind into . I’m sure many others feel the same , the SE2016 is just too far away at the moment to engage me fully.

    The Scottish Government have picked up the pace on land reform and it is becoming a hot issue in the media too.
    If anyone here wants a good cause to get into then there is a new group called SLAM which promotes real land reform and encourages Land Valuation Tax to be adopted as a cure to many of our ills

    You can find them here;
    http://www.scottishlandactionmovement.org/

    Also , invest 30 minutes with this video they have
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pYSsME_h7E

  261. west wales
    Ignored
    says:

    @12.30pm
    oops meant Grouse Beater

    If Phil Woolas had to step down as an MP in 2010 for smearing his Lib Dem opponent (oh the irony!) in his elections leaflets then Carmichael has to step down for smearing the FM. The fact that Danus Skene and not Nicola Sturgeon was Carmichael’s rival candidate can not be used as an excuse. Carmichael smeared another party that was standing against him in his constituency.

  262. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    BBC on Irish vote just now “1.2 million voted yes, but it’s important to remember over 700.000 people voted no” cue interview with losing side! Arrrgggghhhhh!

  263. Yoda
    Ignored
    says:

    All this talk of ‘responsibility to tell the truth’

    Well, for all Carmichael knew the memo was the truth. Certainly it was not ‘made up’, perhaps just some sort of translation/confusion.

    And what about the SNP’s ‘legal advice’ on EU membership during the referendum that didn’t actually exist?

    Please, don’t be hypocritical.

  264. Yoda
    Ignored
    says:

    Also the fact is that this memo did nothing to change how anyone voted, so to say that his constituents would have voted differently had this never been leaked is plainly false.

    That said, it was pretty poor of him to deny he knew anything about it.

  265. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Change.org finally over the 10k mark:

    https://www.change.org/p/alistair-carmichael-mp-resign-as-an-mp?

  266. call me dave
    Ignored
    says:

    Side bar in the Herald:
    A senior source (not named) on the Executive of Scottish Labour said: “Yesterday’s man doesn’t get to determine the future.”

    But then later!

    A Scottish Labour spokesperson (not named) said: “The party reform report will be presented to the SEC by Jim Murphy as Scottish Labour Leader. There will be consultation and input from all party members but the final report and recommendations will be from Jim.”

    I’m confused 🙂 Make your own mind up!

    —————————————————————

    SCOTTISH Labour’s governing body is considering its own set of internal party changes amid concerns about outgoing leader Jim Murphy’s high-profile review.

    The party will draft the rules for the upcoming leadership contest and consider organisational changes, rather than allow Murphy a free-hand.

    A senior source on the Executive of Scottish Labour said: “Yesterday’s man doesn’t get to determine the future.”

    In another development, leadership contender Ken Macintosh accused the “party machine” of “bullying” and “intimidating” his backers into withdrawing their support for him.

    On Murphy’s watch, the party recorded its worst general election result in nearly a century.

    Not only did Labour lose 39 of its 40 seats, but the leader lost his own East Renfrewshire constituency.

    Murphy narrowly won a vote of no-confidence from Scottish Labour’s Executive, but quit within minutes of his victory.

    The former MP said he would walk away next month after tabling a “comprehensive report” on internal party reform.

    He said he intended: “A plan for reshaping the Scottish Labour Party, using all of our talents, widening our membership and ensuring the best possible range of talents from our membership and beyond. And above all, defending the rights of Labour party members and putting them back at the heart of our organisation.”

    He added: “We should have a system of one member one vote [OMOV] as the UK party has, for the election of leaders.”

    As well as backing OMOV, Murphy was expected to support selection changes that give members the right to top the regional Lists for Holyrood.

    Trade union sources, however, fear plans to water down their role in the party by reducing their influence on the Executive and at the party conference.

    Murphy’s lead role in the review has angered MSPs, members of the Executive and senior activists.

    They believe any proposals will be put together by a tight-knit group of Murphy allies with little input from alternative voices.

    A senior party source added: “People are anxious that Jim may use the review to settle scores and advance the interests of his supporters.”

    Against this backdrop, two sub-committees of the party Executive are now in control of aspects of internal reform, which insiders said should be read as re-establishing democratic control over the process.

    It is understood a constitutional working group was tasked with devising the rules for the leadership contest, which is expected to pit deputy leader Kezia Dugdale against Eastwood MSP Ken Macintosh.

    The committee will make a judgement on OMOV, consider whether registered and affiliated party supporters should get a vote, and set the threshold of support required to be a candidate.

    In last year’s contest, aspiring candidates needed the signatures of 12.5% of parliamentarians, while the level for the UK contest is 15%.

    Another sub-group will look at the lessons to be learnt from the general election defeat from an organisational point of view.

    According to senior Scottish Labour sources, the Executive’s front-seat role means the scope for Murphy to get ownership of the reform agenda is limited.

    Although he is expected to back an end to ‘protected places’ for List MSPs, there is widespread support throughout the party for this change anyway.

    Any attempt at altering the make-up of the Executive could require a vote at the next party conference.

    In an article last week, respected MSP Duncan McNeil wrote: “He [Murphy] cannot now be the person to shape and dictate what the party does next. His paper on OMOV will be welcome but it is very much a paper sparked by our internal debates. It plays to historic arguments within ourselves, not the lives of the people outside.”

    In a statement on Friday to announce her candidacy, Dugdale stated that the contest rules would be decided by the party’s governing body.

    “I will formally launch my campaign next month when the Scottish Executive Committee sets out the rules and timetable for the leadership contest.”

    The developments mean there are two overlapping pieces of work: Murphy’s report, and the areas looked at by the Executive.

    A Scottish Labour spokesperson said: “The party reform report will be presented to the SEC by Jim Murphy as Scottish Labour Leader. There will be consultation and input from all party members but the final report and recommendations will be from Jim.”
    ————————————————————

  267. Charles Edward
    Ignored
    says:

    Podgy Carmichael..
    @Grouse Beater

    Maybe being a bit mean to Alistair?

    Given the correct make up and lighting, give him a scythe and a cornfield, stripped to the waist perspiring in the afternoon heat haze, Alistair could be the new politics hottie?

    Who cares about minor indiscretion when we have a new poster boy for better together.

    Billboards and calvins undertrews await the brave..If not for your country do it for the ladies..

  268. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yoda

    I agree, Carmichael is probably stupid enough to have believed the memo was factual, even though it had a clear caveat casting doubt on such an unlikely situation.

    That’s not what is upsetting people, especially his constituents. It the fact that he stood on Channel 4 and lied. He then kept quiet while an expensive investigation took place. Then only owned up after having been re-elected.

    If he hadn’t lied on Channel 4 then he wouldn’t be in this mess.

    The problem is not the leaking, it’s with the lying.

    As for ‘legal advice”, the rooms are full of lawyers!

  269. Socrates MacSporran
    Ignored
    says:

    We are currently in a “phoney war” situation. Parliament is back, but, nothing much will happen before the Queen’s Speech is delivered, than debated.

    So, while the Establishment is trying hard – with obvious assistance from the London media – to bury this story, there is surely some way the 56 at Westminster can keep it alive.

    Might this be something Angus Robertson can raise through his second and supplementary question at PMQs on Wednesday.

    Something along the lines of: “Does my Right Honourabe friend the Prime Minister join me in condemning the conduct of the Rt Hon member for Orkeny & Shetland, as regards his blatanty and admitted leaking of a dishonest memo and the subsequent bother this caused the First Minister of Scotland”.

    Then, Cameron either has to put the boot into Carmichael, or, by refusing to do so – be shown to support his lies.

  270. Yoda
    Ignored
    says:

    Of course Sturgeon is pleased with the Tory government.

    It helps her argument of ‘Tories ruling over Scotland’ etc

  271. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    Alistair could be the new politics hottie? 🙂

  272. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    We need to target this age group.

    Euthanasia? 😉

  273. Valerie
    Ignored
    says:

    joemcg @1.26, even better, I was in the car at 11am, so switched on BBC Radio Scotland to see if I would be proved right that there would be no mention of Carmichael, and I was proved right.

    Then in reporting Eurovision, they said the UK came fourth….. from the bottom!

    Even if I was a raging Unionist, would people with any sense of decency, not be interested in the baggage Carmichael taking a huge dump all over his constituents, democracy etc?

  274. Brian Powell
    Ignored
    says:

    On the 68% of old people who favour the UK. I would be useful to know exactly what it is they think the UK is doing for them.

    Is it possible that even now they believe getting these Tory Governments is just fine with them?

  275. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    Yodelling Yoda: Of course Sturgeon is pleased with the Tory government.

    It is only public school English MPs and their faithful who enjoy masochism. Scots prefer justice and fair play to the lash of a whip and pain.

  276. desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    Yoda says:
    24 May, 2015 at 1:16 pm
    Also the fact is that this memo did nothing to change how anyone voted

    And the cry of ‘PISH!’ arose throughout the crowd.

  277. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    If Carmichael gets away with this, it will send out the message to all unionists MPs that they can abuse Scotland however they wish and suffer no consequences.

  278. Helena Brown
    Ignored
    says:

    Brian, I am of the opinion that those 68% of old people will be back to being terrified out their wits with regard to their pension payments the longer this Tory Government lasts, I know I am. There are a lot of sinister messages flying around like pensioners are so well off.

  279. Helena Brown
    Ignored
    says:

    Charles Edward, having just eaten lunch, I am now feeling a tad sick. The picture you conjured up of Alistair Carmichael was do disgusting. If he is to strip down to the “y’s” I would rather he was not photographed.

  280. Dr Jim
    Ignored
    says:

    Did Carmichael think it was the truth did he think it was incorrect or as our resident troll thinks it would have made no difference to the vote

    Well lets look at it more simply
    We know Carmichael’s a liar…Fact
    Conclusion ; He can’t be trusted on anything he says
    Would the voters have still voted for him; Let’s just say to our resident troll “Ridiculous don’t be”

    If a politician were to go around with a sign hanging round his neck saying “I’m a proven liar vote for me”
    Only a wooden headed idjit would

    Even the SNP haters might have trouble there
    Of course those same folk seem to hate everybody the French the Germans, Well it would take all day to list now wouldn’t it

    Another election is needed without question this was a deliberate smear tactic to undermine The First Ministers Campaign and they were caught
    The folk of that constituency must be offered the choice armed with the correct information on the candidate they chose should he decide to present himself as a new and improved version of himself then let’s see the kind of political values the folk in that area want

  281. Lochside
    Ignored
    says:

    Yoda: from your comments we can deduce that you are either a fool or a knave. Whichever category applies, please go somewhere else where your foolishness or knavery will be appreciated….like the Daily Mail or Daily Record. Although they don’t stock the latter at Thames House or do they?

  282. Alan Mackintosh
    Ignored
    says:

    Oh dear, had a look at Lallands Peat Worrier and it appears that the Recall Act 2015, which is the one that allows a petition of 10% of the electorate to recall an MP, hasn’t been passed into legislation yet. Therefore it can’t be used in Carmichaels case, even if he does get suspended by the standards committee. Looks like the only option is the one LPW mentioned yesterday about the Representtaion of the People act, but that needs a case presented at the court of session by Thursday. I know Carol Fox is looking at this, she identifed this on Friday along with LPW. Time is of the essence.

  283. Swami Backverandah
    Ignored
    says:

    “To the best of our knowledge, none have yet retracted their comments or apologised, with the exception of former Tory MP Louise Mensch.”
    Do I recall Dunc H tweeting that he’d been gulled?

    Maybe, like Eric, he’s ready to join the SNP.
    (Not sure they’d want Louise though, unless she swears to bring Murdoch over to the cause).

  284. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @desimond says: 24 May, 2015 at 10:05 am:

    “Carmichael..aka The Anti-Santa

    All around the country millions of kids are waking up and excitedly asking “
    ‘Has he gone?,”.

    Of course he hasn’t, desimond, he has a Sanity Claus in his contracy.

  285. Betty Craney
    Ignored
    says:

    Surely Carmichael must realise his every utterance from now on will be viewed with suspicion ….you only have to be shown to be a liar once for your credibility to be held in question forever.

    O/T haven’t seen any posts from Robert Peffers . Wonder if he’s OK.

  286. Betty Craney
    Ignored
    says:

    Ooops! Robert just posted same time as me !

  287. The Man in the Jar
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yoda

    “Of course Sturgeon is pleased with the Tory government.”

    Thats right sunshine. Just you keep on believing and posting this sort of nonsense. Proving as if any further proof was needed that you are indeed a blithering halfwit!

  288. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    Grouse-well aye, that would do the trick!

  289. James Caithness
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael won’t go and here is the rules of recall

    lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/why-alistair-carmichael-cant-be-recalled.html

  290. stonefree
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Socrates MacSporran 1:24 pm

    I would change the last part to
    ” and the subsequent bother this caused to both the First Minister of Scotland and former Leader of the opposition in this House”
    That stuffs it into Cameron and Labour are then in a difficult position to critise .

  291. Heidstaethefire
    Ignored
    says:

    This story was described as “breaking news” on Scotland Today at 10.30 that Friday night. If you look at the timings of those Labour Party tweets, many of them are a good while before that. Might also be worth reposting, by way of contrast – alright, by way of shaming,Malcolm Chisholm’s far more honourable tweet from the next morning.

  292. Proud Cybernat
    Ignored
    says:

    Oi Yoda,

    You are nothing but a wee shit-stirring, noise-up merchant. Now take yer wee green hairy arse some place else afore the full force of Proud Cybernat gets primitive on it.

  293. David McDowell
    Ignored
    says:

    The best definition of a “lie” I ever heard was: “When what is coming out of your mouth doesn’t match what is inside your head. We are expected to believe Carmichael was unaware of that mismatch in interviews like this one. You tend to forget how serious all this is until you watch a so-called “honourable” man literally lying through his teeth in a TV news interview just to cover his own backside, right down to the classic “duping glee” he displays at the end of the interview. “How shrewd I am” he must have thought, “to outwit this Channel 4 dullard!”, not to mention all the other “suckers” who believed in him, those same “suckers” who paid his £12,000 a month salary as a “cabinet minister” for five years. Stomach turning.

  294. Iain More
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yoda

    Talking pish you are. The Tories in Govt helps nobody except maybe multi millionaires and billionaires, oh and kiddy fiddling creeps in the British Establishment.

  295. Swami Backverandah
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve read elsewhere that Rennie’s just issued a statement in support of Carmichael, claiming his mendacity an ‘aberration’, and that he deserves a second chance.
    No resignation. No by-election.

    So second chances the order of the day, but none for the voters of Orkney and Shetland.

  296. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    Yoda you talk such nonsense! You really do!

    Tell me, did you ever spend 9 years at University and leave with nothing? lol

  297. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    Yoda

    The SNP are not going to sit by just because the Tories won. If Labour had won and were looking to form a minority government there was an SNP strategy in place. The Tories having won requires a different strategy. That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be one.

    The argument that people in England voted Tory because they thought that Labour would concede too much to the SNP but the SNP are happy with a Tory win because the Tories will concede more has an obvious logic flaw.

    The real problem is that the Tories and Labour went into an anti-SNP bidding war to each make themselves look the lost anti-SNP. The Tory press in particular ever looking for the lowest common denominator simply made it an anti-Scottish bidding war.

    Then people are surprised by the voter reaction in Scotland.

  298. Dave McEwan Hill
    Ignored
    says:

    Yoda at 1.13

    You are a bit mixed up

    As a matter of fact the SNP had a large volume of legal advice about the EU from a wide variety of expert sources before the election.

    The UK Government however deliberately refused to ask the EU to provide formal legal advice on the specific case of independent Scottish continuation in the EU despite the Scottish Government’s appeal for them to do so and the EU wouldn’t formally deal with the devolved Scottish Government against the wishes of an EU member state.

    This allowed the Better Together campaign to continue to argue that Scotland would be ejected from the EU despite the fact that that was absurd nonsense.

  299. Iain Gray's Subway Lament
    Ignored
    says:

    Apparently the coward Rennie has finally emerged from hiding to fully endorse the disgraced liar Carmichael.

    Not content with being completely out of touch with the real world, (because the public sure as fuck don’t think what Carmichael should stay as an MP) Rennie still hasn’t apologised to Nicola since he somehow forgot to mention that HE was the one who the Torygraph and Carmichael used to smear Nicola.

    Do low life yellow tory liars like Rennie seriously think nobody will remember he and Carmichael were both neck deep in this scandal and were both caught red-handed using dirty tricks to lie and attempt to smear scotland’s first minister?

    I’ve got some bad news for them if they really are that deluded.

    For the next FIVE YEARS the lib dems in scotland will be represented by two disgraced and unprincipled liars.

    You think that won’t matter?

    How did that work out for you when you had Clegg as leader?

    A pair of disgraced liars who engage in dirty tricks as the public face of the lib dems in scotland for years to come. Yeah, fucking BRILLIANT idea! Not. 😀 LOL

    Every local election, scottish election, EU election the voters will be reminded that the lib dems are happy to have disgusting liars like Rennie and Carmichael representing them.

    Not only won’t they recover, they will be hammered down even further by the scottish voters. Count on it.

    When the low life Labour spinner Damien McBride tried to smear his opponents and was caught he was finished in politics.

    Yet somehow Rennie and Carmichael should be treated differently when they were caught red-handed lying and trying to smear scotland’s first minister??

    I don’t fucking think so.

  300. Iain Gray's Subway Lament
    Ignored
    says:

    Apparently the coward Rennie has finally emerged from hiding to fully endorse the disgraced liar Carmichael.

    Not content with being completely out of touch with the real world, (because the public sure as fuck don’t think what Carmichael should stay as an MP) Rennie still hasn’t apologised to Nicola since he somehow forgot to mention that HE was the one who the Torygraph and Carmichael used to smear Nicola.

    Do low life yellow tory liars like Rennie seriously think nobody will remember he and Carmichael were both neck deep in this scandal and were both caught red-handed using dirty tricks to lie and attempt to smear scotland’s first minister?

    I’ve got some bad news for them if they really are that deluded.

    For the next FIVE YEARS the lib dems in scotland will be represented by two disgraced and unprincipled liars.

    You think that won’t matter?

    How did that work out for you when you had Clegg as leader?

    A pair of disgraced liars who engage in dirty tricks as the public face of the lib dems in scotland for years to come. Yeah, fucking BRILLIANT idea! Not. 😀 LOL

    Every local election, scottish election, EU election the voters will be reminded that the lib dems are happy to have disgusting liars like Rennie and Carmichael representing them.

    Not only won’t they recover, they will be hammered down even further by the scottish voters. Count on it.

    When the low life Labour spinner Damien McBride tried to smear his opponents and was caught he was finished in politics.

    Yet somehow Rennie and Carmichael should be treated differently when they were caught red-handed lying and trying to smear scotland’s first minister??

    I don’t fucking think so and neither will the public.

    Let’s see just how popular Carmichael and Rennie are compared to Nicola for the next five years.

  301. Des
    Ignored
    says:

    Over the weekend been blethering with party members in the passing (like you do now in the small town I live in -there are so many of us lol). Various opinions on what might happen next, personally I think he is a great asset to us if he stays as long as Holyrood 2016.

  302. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Yoda says: 24 May, 2015 at 1:13 pm:

    “And what about the SNP’s ‘legal advice’ on EU membership during the referendum that didn’t actually exist?”

    Thing is, Yoda, that is the perfect example to show what am ignorant and/or liar you and your kind are.

    This Unionist pack of lies was due to you, and your kind, being so poorly educated that the bulk of you are unable to comprehend your own native language. It began with a TV interview of Alex Salmond by Andrew Neil in which Neil asked Alex Salmond a certain Question.

    I have, several times given an official BBC transcription of that part of the interview. Thing is it proves beyond any doubt that not only did Salmond NOT claim he had EU legal advice but that YOU are unable to comprehend your own native language.

    I now give you that part of the transcription again and advise that you stop exhibiting you ignorance and stupidity on this forum until you have undertaken English Language Remedial Classes.

    Neil: Q – Have you sought advice from your own Scottish Law Officers on this matter?

    Salmond: A – We Have, Yes.

    Now then, Yoda, can you explain, for all of us here, how you and your poorly educated unionist friends, are making the claim that Alex Salmond claimed he had EU legal advice?

    Read it again, Yoda, Salmond was not asked if he had EU legal advice he was asked, “Have you sought advice from your own Scottish Law Officers on this matter?”.

    So how can his answer that he had legal advice from his own Scottish Law Officers be construed as admitting he had EU legal advice?

    You can find the Neil/Salmond clip here with the Neil lies highlighted.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-XzG9yGaV0

  303. Aceldo Atthis
    Ignored
    says:

    The real story is being buried before your eyes. Sturgeon’s meeting with the French Ambassador was bugged, that’s the source, and that’s why they’re all panicking and acting so cagey. It doesn’t matter what she said.

    And that’s why they are serving us up with Carmichael — a patsy and a distraction — when most if not all leak investigations come back with nothing to report.

  304. Brian Powell
    Ignored
    says:

    If Rennie claimed Carmichael’s behaviour was an aberration then they both stand condemned.

    Quite often it is the subsequent attempt to cover something up that does the most damage. In this instance it is the original action, Carmichael’s coverup (claiming he didn’t know until told by a ‘journalist) and Rennie’s covering support now, that will come to bite them in the arse.

    They seem to forget there is the Holyrood elections next year. But like the Referendum, they couldn’t see beyond 18th Sept and what might happen, and it did.

  305. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    Bill Clinton- I did not have sex with that woman!

    Oh that type of sex you mean?

    Richard Nixon- I was not involved in Watergate!

    Yes I instructed this illegal covert operation, but I wasn’t directly involved.

    Aistair Carmichael- I knew about the story being fabricated, I could have stopped it from going out, but I did not, I did continue the with the lies in from of the world’s media, TV, Radio, and newspaper reporters, watched as precious public funds were wasted to the tune of £1.4 million.

    But I had my fingers croosed behind my back when I did this so it doesn’t count! Just ask Rennie & Cameron!

    Absolutely pathetic!

    He is not staying in office no matter what we have to do!

    Could I also ask you to reflect not only the damage he and his counterparts have played in destroying democracy in this country, the electorate of Orkney and Shetland, but what he has done to the party activists who worked hard to support someone that they took to at the very least honest.

    Also reflect on what his immediate family will go through.
    Does anyone doubt that the locals around them will comment directly, politely I hope. Will his Kids face any kind of recriminations at school. The playground can be the cruelest of places.

    I’d also like to see the church, in which he claims to be an Elder, comment on how fit a proven liar and deceiver is to be a church representative, leading by example.

  306. ArtyHetty
    Ignored
    says:

    What a corrupt sleazy despicable fg establishment Westminster really is, that is beyond doubt.
    The worry is many cannot see that and worse still believe the tripe that the msm feed them day in day out.

    I see the trolls ie yoda are out again on here, a good indication that this is bothering the establishment. This has ukok bt written all over it this shennanigans, lying gits.

  307. HandandShrimp
    Ignored
    says:

    James Caithness

    The recall rules were passed on the 26th of March so it simply requires the Westminster Government to install them. If Carmichael is called before a Standards Committee and if he gets as 10 day ban after the rules are switched on then he could be recalled. If not he can’t.

    A lot of “ifs” in there I know but I guess we will see if he still has friends in high places or whether he is the sacrificial lamb by what Westminster does next. My guess is he will stay on but it depends if his heart is in it. He had talked about a life outside politics before this election. That might look very attractive right now.

  308. west wales
    Ignored
    says:

    It turns out that the Lib Dem’s Rt Hon. Charles Kennedy ex-MP is an honorary member of the Franco-British Council. The Council is mostly funded by the UK and French governments to foster close ties between the two countries.

    Has such a prominent Lib Dem as Charlie Kennedy got any opinions about a fellow prominent Lib Dem using the French Ambassador and a French Consul in such a shabby way to try and smear political opponents?

    Nick Clegg is also an honorary member of the Franco-British Council.

  309. Alastair
    Ignored
    says:

    So Wee Willie Rennie has made a statement supporting Carmichael.
    I hope fair minded people will give him a second chance.

    Willie is that the same second chance you would have been calling for for Nicola if it had been true.

    Unbelievable hypocrisy.

    Willie yer teas oot as well.

    I love the opporchansity to grammatically correctly use double words

  310. Thistle
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi people

    we are citizen livestream journalists and bloggers. We have done upwards of 400 livestreams all for free and are part of the new Scottish media.

    Please support our crowdfunder and help us reach a wider audience: http://tvl.ink/crowdfunder

  311. Proud Cybernat
    Ignored
    says:

    And another thing, oh short one o’ the green bum–it’s not Sturgeon that wanted the Tories to win. That would be the Labour Party in Scotland who prefered Tory Rule to Home Rule.

    Now look down. See yon plate at yer wee green stumpy feet–take it away wi’ yae for it has yer arse on it.

  312. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    Not only are you an idiot, you are an insult to the normally decent people of the United Kingdom. You exemplify everything that is driving the people of this archipelago apart. On what spurious evidence do you base your illogical twaddle upon this time?

    I cite my evidence upon the protesters upon the streets of our Northern Isles carrying placards stating they were indeed fooled by that elected person’s lies.
    What is your proof?

  313. Jim Thomson
    Ignored
    says:

    @Thistle 4:35pm

    Added a wee bit to the kitty.

    Keep up the great work.

    🙂

  314. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    For those who have given up readings newspaper or watching TV news because of its bias:

    https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/spineless-lying-bastards/

  315. Petra
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Yoda says ”Also the fact is that this memo did nothing to change how anyone voted, so to say that his constituents would have voted differently had this never been leaked is plainly false.”

    Yoda it’s not a FACT at all that the untruthful contents of the memo did nothing to change how people voted. Why do you think they bothered to leak the memo in the first place? They leaked it because they thought, unlike you, that it WOULD influence how people voted and I’m sure it did.

    @ Brian Powell says ”On the 68% of old people who favour the UK. I would be useful to know exactly what it is they think the UK is doing for them.”

    Taking into account the large numbers of elderly people who have retired to / settled in Scotland, and will continue to no doubt, I think it would be useful to ascertain the percentage of elderly Scots who actually favour being part of the UK.

    I have a great deal of contact with elderly people, from around the Country, and I have a good idea as to who actually voted to remain in the Union. If I’m right proffering any propitious facts / information relating to Scotland becoming Independent wont make one whit of a difference to them.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2753400/Revealed-How-half-million-English-voters-living-Scotland-set-block-independence.html

    On the other hand there are elderly Scots who voted no and would do so again because, in the main, they don’t have access to online information. If we want to make a positive difference we should target clubs / associations and so on that cater for elderly people and produce a leaflet that simplifies all of the major issues with bold statements to counter the scaremongering and lying. Including references to online sites may help those who have relatives to support them.

    As an example when I came into contact with elderly people who had been frightened to death by Gordon Browns ‘pension’ lies I would show them the Steve Webb, UK Pension Minster, youtube video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su47Cx3HiSI

  316. maxi kerr
    Ignored
    says:

    The question is:”What is going to be done about this!”

  317. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Let Carmicheal stay is also an option, a five year blob of sleaze and corruption that probably cant be airbrushed away by UKOK media.

    Britnats going mental defenderising the fat crook but using EU legal advice to Salmond. Which ever way you look at the EU advice stuff, the Scottish electorate did too and they voted SNP by a landslide.

    Real world meets shouty unionist BBC world.

  318. Barontorc
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s come down to either a question of self-respect for Carmichael. He’s caught bang and proper for scheming against the FM of Scotland and then lying about it to extricate himself, or is he to be dragged officially by whatever means to the front door and booted out?

    The matter as many have said should be for him now; strictly personal and put to rights, with some honour, if very little, coming from it.

    Of course, if he has been hung out to dry by a cabal of schemers which he now finds to be an unhappy circumstance, that again, is for him to reflect on. What’s the point in going for the others? What will it achieve? It also has to come directly and very personally from himself and has he the gumption?

    If official channels are used – it may be a blue touch-paper moment for more than a few high heid-yins; Mundell, Clegg, Scott, Heywood, Macpherson and silly Willie Rennie, etc., which in itself will break the union wide apart.

    Good-oh! Interesting times indeed Mr Carmichael.

  319. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Brian Powell says: 24 May, 2015 at 1:37 pm:

    “Is it possible that even now they believe getting these Tory Governments is just fine with them?”

    No, Brian, but it might be interesting to know how many of them are white settlers from other UK countries who have sold off their large homes in UK cities and bought more modest, and cheaper, homes in Scottish areas to retire to on their pensions.

    It is some years now since I visited the Western and Northern Isle on a regular basis but on my last visit to Skye I could hardly find a local shop, café or other business where the staff, (owners mainly), had local, or even Scottish accents.

    I even came across a native Welsh speaker who was looking for a cheap croft to buy with his combined redundancy and sold big city house money.

  320. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Betty Craney says: 24 May, 2015 at 2:17 pm:

    “O/T haven’t seen any posts from Robert Peffers . Wonder if he’s OK.

    Hi, Betty, I’m reading but keeping quiet, (for a change).

    I’m just rather busy catching up with a few much needed repair jobs. My quite large garden’s like a jungle and the wee papillion bitch keeps getting lost in the long grass.

  321. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    Guys!

    Some you have contemplated Carmichael staying?

    Stop it right now!

    He is going out of office, if not into prison! Full Stop.

    Never can we see slanderous liars and cheats represent the good people of this country!

    Not if he is put out, it’s is will it be Tomorrow or Tuesday!

  322. Fred
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael talking with the eyes shut. A sure sign of a lying bastard!

  323. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Joemcg says: 24 May, 2015 at 2:25 pm:

    “Grouse-well aye, that would do the trick!”

    Well Kid, (I can call you kid can’t I?), we old guys don’t need your help to die off – we usually manage to do that very well all by ourselves. I just hope I make it long enough to tell St Pete, when he answers my knock, that I’ve just arrived from the Independent Kingdom of Scotland and would like Haggis and Clapshot for my lunch.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/haggisclapshotandwhi_92144

  324. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    For anyone who stopped following the previous thread on Wings. Eric Joyce has made a comment at the end of the thread, he thinks Carmichael will resign and outlines his thinking on it having read the comments.

    And he’s added a cheeky wee comment at the end about Mr Skene.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-naked-liar/comment-page-1/#comment-2019408

  325. William Duguid
    Ignored
    says:

    I don’t do a great deal of blog-pimping on Wings, folks, but since this one is on-topic, I thought I’d make an exception…

    http://williamduguid.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/karma-carmichael.html

  326. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    Good post Petra.

    Aside from the bit about asking wearie Wullie to resign. 🙂

  327. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    Why are people responding to Yoda? Remember “the pig likes it”

  328. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    And he’s added a cheeky wee comment at the end about Mr Skene.

    He did indeed and talks about MP’s doing “bad stuff.” Carmichael did bad stuff like lying to Scotland more than once but his cunning stunt went a long way to boost the vote tory campaign in England and help the UKOK attack machine monster Sturgeon after she did rather well on national tv debates.

    Who knows, Carmicheal’s bad stuff may have won the 2015 election, scaring English bigotry into voting against a possible Labour and SNP coalition. That alone shows this farce union is now over but Carmichael was certainly not working alone and the tory campaign was ready and waiting to use memo-gate.

    Some legacy for the Liberal Democrats in Scotland.

  329. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/why-alistair-carmichael-cant-be-recalled.html?spref=tw

    Apparently the recall legislation has not come into force: so the opportunity does not exist to recall AC.

    I should have checked, and especially so should the press.

    That is a disappointment

    However I still believe that AC can be led to step down if the pressure keeps up. His life as an MP would be miserable from here on in: he must be made to realise that

  330. scottieDog
    Ignored
    says:

    Wouldn’t be in a rush to get willie rennie to resign. He is the political court jester.
    I remember his car crash interview pre-indy when he couldn’t differentiate personal borrowing from govt deficit borrowing. Better together were claiming an independent scotland wouldn’t be able to borrow. I remember the incredulity of the interviewer when he claimed that Scottish people wouldn’t get mortgages..

  331. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    Just read the Eric Joyce comment on the other thread, and I like the idea that if Carmicheal does stay put, he is a constant reminder to the Scottish voting public of why Scotland needs to be Independent from Westminster.

  332. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    Oh the irony.

  333. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    Great read William. I think your right, the voters won’t let this pass. If he has any sence, he will go quickly.

  334. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    As for the wee papillion bitch barking round your heels and vanishing in the long grass, you must remember that Willie, like the Great Gordo, is a product of Fife and you have to consider him like the left over … a Little without Large, an Ernie without Eric, Stan without Ollie even though he wouldn’t even make it as one of their bootlaces.

    Looking at it as the papers will, they’ll say its great for the SNP if AC stays on they’ll win both Northern Isles constituencies and the LibDems will be reduced to one or two list MSPs. Which is rubbish; the best thing for the SNP is that AC goes and people see the contrast between the open style of Scottish government and the sleaze of Westminster Government. That will pick them up many more seats than the two in the North

  335. Petra
    Ignored
    says:

    Willie Rennie is an absolute disgrace as a man and politician. How many times has he called for someone to resign? On numerous occasions! He also absolutely hounded Kenny MacAskill, day in day out (and could be seen to do this with relish), especially in relation to his attempts to abolish the Corroboration Law (Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill).

    Apologies for this post being so long but this issue is close to my heart as one of my young relatives was sexually abused and nothing could be done about it due to the Corroboration Law. I followed Kenny MacAskills attempts to redress this situation and Rennies pathetic approach to the Bill and disgusting bullying behaviour towards MacAskill.

    I’ve outlined some facts in relation to sexual abuse in Scotland and the time and effort that was put into changing the Bill, for anyone who is interested in this subject.

    The National reported recently, 06/03/15, the ‘Rise in reports of child sex offences over the past four years’.

    The article highlighted that sex offences against children in Scotland had almost doubled in the last four years with more than 350 children being raped every year. The figures released under the Freedom of Information Act are no doubt just the tip of the (hellish) iceberg.

    The article also outlined that ‘’the Scottish Government is taking action on a number of fronts (to deal with this) following calls from opposition MSPs (such as Rennie) for ”an urgent plan’’.

    Part of ‘the urgent plan’, in my opinion, should have been the abolition of the Corroboration Law (Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill) that demands corroborative evidence from two separate sources for a criminal conviction to succeed, such as an eye witness and DNA sample; but people like Willie Rennie made every effort to call a halt to that.

    Scotland is said to be the only country in the civilised world (other than the Netherlands) that utilises the centuries old rule that has been blamed for low conviction rates in rape and domestic violence cases, where it is more likely to be one persons word against anothers.

    The abolition of this outdated Law could have come to pass recently following Legislation being put forward by the Scottish Government to this effect. This followed the system being ‘rigorously reviewed’ by Lord Carloway and his recommendations on corroborative evidence and safeguards being presented, such as increasing the majority of jurors who were acquired to agree on a guilty verdict from 8 to 10. Consultations were carried out and overall this issue was debated for three years.

    Advocates of the corroboration ruling suggested that it minimises the possibility of miscarriage of justice.

    Those against, such as Lord Carloway, maintained that ”it does not guard against miscarriages and is a barrier to obtaining justice for the victims of crimes committed in private or where no one else was there. The requirement for corroboration has failed Scotland. It was formulated in a different age before matters such as DNA and CCTV. Times have changed”.

    The Carloway Review sampled 141 sexual cases and concluded that 67% would have been successfully prosecuted without corroboration. In real terms, if my calculations are correct, this relates to approximately 94 individuals receiving justice and a number of sex offenders being convicted.

    Kenny MacAskill, Justice Secretary at the time, was ”in complete agreement with Lord Carloway that the requirement for corroboration should be abolished. At the very, very least abolition of the requirement will allow crimes committed in private, where the complainer has suffered in silence, or behind closed doors to be brought to Court. That can only be a step forward. Having identified this barrier for vulnerable victims in accessing justice we must now act. In a modern society it is simply not acceptable for victims to be left to suffer in silence and for justice not to be delivered.”

    The fact that these MSPs, such as Willie Rennie, called for the SNP to come up with ‘an urgent plan’ recently just makes my blood boil. Kenny MacAskill made every effort to have this law abolished and was shot down by Rennie and his ‘Union’ cohorts who ‘ganged together’ to scupper the ‘plan’ that could have afforded justice to those who have suffered and acted as a deterrent to those paedophiles who see Scotland as being the ideal location to carry out their abhorrent acts.

    ”The SNP’s controversial plan to abolish a historic safeguard in Scotland’s justice system was resting on a knife edge last night after Holyrood’s opposition parties agreed a secret strategy to block it. The Daily Telegraph can disclose that Labour, the Tories and the Liberal Democrats will today make a joint effort to save the centuries-old rule of corroboration from being scrapped” (Telegraph 26/02/2014).

    At that time Ruth Davidson stated that ”Our position on this issue has been consistent from the beginning, that the case has not been made for the abolition of corroboration ….. Victims of crime are best served by secure and sound convictions (WHAT!), yet Kenny MacAskill’s plan risks miscarriages of justice.”

    John Pentland (Labour MSP) said ”Is corroboration an integral part of our centuries old Law? If it is and it’s not broke why fix it?” (Heraldscotland 25/09/2014).

    Willie Rennie branded ”the way Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill has handled attempts to abolish the centuries old legal safeguard “crackers’’ (The Courier 17 Jan 2014).

    Kenny MacAskill commented on the Union approach: “After so much debate, we must now act … If members vote to take the provisions out of the bill, they are voting to continue that injustice in Scotland for so many people … The charge is being dealt with by the Conservative Party, which is supported by its helpers as is becoming the norm in the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats. We know that the better together campaign extends beyond the constitutional remit to other aspects. We expected that from the Tory Party: it is the Conservative and Unionist Party. We did not expect that from those who have had a lifetime of experience. We know that Labour members take their cue from Cameron and Osborne. I said that there seemed to be a parody in terms of Labour’s position with regard to Labour’s position on corroboration. Let us be clear: it is only an excuse for Labour, which is selling out on its principles. We accept that that is the norm for the Conservative Party, but for years the Labour Party, especially under Johann Lamont, prided itself on tackling domestic abuse and addressing issues to do with sexual offences. Labour has sold its soul and is in danger of selling out the victims of crime. I commend the motion in my name.”

    Are many of the decisions that are being made in Holyrood based on no more than point scoring with no consideration being given to the people that they are being paid to represent such as vulnerable children?

    How do you explain ‘Corroboration Law’ to a sexually abused child whilst telling them that their case has been dropped? Children who have suffered badly and have plucked up the courage to report it. Would they not say, if they truly understood the Law, that ”it IS broke and needs to be fixed?”.

    If anyone is ‘crackers’ it’s Willie Rennie and his ilk that did their utmost to overturn the Bill and of course as was par for the course with Mr Rennie attempted to discredit Kenny McAskill in the process.

    Those who complained that the abolition of this Law could lead to miscarriages of justice clearly didn’t consider the fact that hundreds or more so thousands of children in Scotland haven’t received any justice at all.

    We have no idea of the numbers of children that are being sexually abused in this Country because they are being gagged and their cases are being quashed before they get off the ground.

    Thanks to people like Willie Rennie, and his Union pals, Scotland continues to be a paedophiles haven and it’s no wonder the sexual abuse figures are rising. If they want to do something about this horrendous problem THEY should be asked to formulate ‘the urgent plan’ now: One that will have to include individuals having the ability to see through walls and closed doors until such time that the Corroboration Law is abolished in Scotland.

  336. John from Fife
    Ignored
    says:

    Surely Carmichael has broken the law and should be punished. Re one of the earlier comments. Is there a justification to restrict the eligible voters in Indy2 to people born in Scotland and to include Expat Scots as well.

  337. Mike
    Ignored
    says:

    Yet another smear.

    Sturgeon allegedly used a “rusty hacksaw” to amputate a patient’s leg

  338. Petra
    Ignored
    says:

    John from Fife says ”Is there a justification to restrict the eligible voters in Indy2 to people born in Scotland and to include Expat Scots as well.”

    I don’t know John but this article is interesting.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/13/britain-eu-referendum-who-gets-to-vote-deciding-factor

  339. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Seems to be picking up pace a wee bit last couple of hours – now at 10,862 🙂

    https://www.change.org/p/alistair-carmichael-mp-resign-as-an-mp?

  340. John from Fife
    Ignored
    says:

    Thanks for that Petra.
    Perhaps the Irish have it right for constitutional issues.

  341. Phil
    Ignored
    says:

    Again.

    Utter falsehoods, this time amplified by continued brazen lies and worse – nowhere in any MSM media is there any avenue to ask for factual content, for factual comment. Britain devoid of a voice, but Better Together.

  342. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @handclapping says: 24 May, 2015 at 7:01 pm:

    “As for the wee papillion bitch barking round your heels and vanishing in the long grass, you must remember that Willie, like the Great Gordo, is a product of Fife”.

    Ah! Yes! Handclapping, but you must realise I live on the outskirts of Kelty and Wee Willie and Alex Rowley are both from Kelty and my greatest fear is that what the wee bitch is barking at in the back garden is one, or both of them, hiding out in my long grass.

    Mind you I don’t go up there without a stout walking stick in my hand.

  343. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    Didn’t realise Willie was from Kelty Robert.

    I hear he used to be a bus driver.

    Wonder if he ever drove a bus with a bus conductress there? I can hear the music starting up in my head as I type.

  344. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    Joemcg,

    “Another poll out today showing it’s only the auld yins that are going to stop us winning a second vote. A massive 68% against. Yet the overall poll shows 53% no. We need to seriously target this age group.”

    Mission impossible. These are the most diehard British nationalists in the country.

    No point in wasting a single penny on them.

    Funds would be better spent to convince the younger working class and the jobless who voted No or didn’t vote.

  345. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @John from Fife says: 24 May, 2015 at 7:08 pm:

    “Re one of the earlier comments. Is there a justification to restrict the eligible voters in Indy2 to people born in Scotland and to include Expat Scots as well?”

    Whoa! John, Have you any Idea just how many Scots ex-pats there are in just London alone? Not only that but it was ex-pat London Scots that got us into this hellish union in the first place.

  346. cynicalHighlander
    Ignored
    says:

    It seems to be a recurring theme on here that those of us pensioners born in England are not welcome here, thanks but you can stick that up your puerile arses aND BUGGER OFF BACK INTO YOUR CAVES.

  347. Natasha
    Ignored
    says:

    John from Fife and Petra – nice to know that you consider me ineligible to vote on the future of my own country. Thanks very much. Just because I happen to have been born elsewhere. Let’s see – what if I were black, or lesbian, or Muslim, or transgender – would you be daring to suggest that that should bar me from voting? No. But it’s okay to have a go at me because I wasn’t born in Scotland. You disgust me.

  348. James123
    Ignored
    says:

    So we’ve got a Tory government we didn’t vote for, nuclear weapons we don’t want and a million Scots in poverty. Yet 53% say more of the same please.

    Some Scots need their fucking heads examined.

  349. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    @Rock
    @Joemcg

    “Another poll out today showing it’s only the auld yins that are going to stop us winning a second vote. A massive 68% against. … We need to seriously target this age group … Mission impossible. These are the most diehard British nationalists in the country.”

    I reckon each year which passes sees about 1% vote lost at the No rich elderly end as nature takes its course.

    At the other end, young voters are added who are overwhelmingly Yes. This adds 1% to Yes.

    So, every year there is a swing of as much as 2% in Yes’s favour, roughly. And, that’s if nothing else changes.

    People, even the old, can be exposed to reality beyond the BBC and the MSM. Once they see the wider picture, they can never un-see it.

    Then I’d add the No voters who believe they’d get more powers. In their disappointment, some will switch to Yes.

    And, then, there’s the impact of Tories on the whole ‘better together myth’.

    All in all, I’m optimistic that in a fairly short time Yes will start showing a consistent winning percentage. Then we can have a second vote, probably ushered by an helpful crisis!

  350. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Chic McGregor says: 24 May, 2015 at 8:12 pm:

    “Didn’t realise Willie was from Kelty Robert.
    I don’t know if he’s from Kelty but heard he lives there now. Rennie is a weel kent Kelty name.

    I hear he used to be a bus driver.
    Indeed, but he may have driven for Rennie’s Bus Company while the Kelty Clippie worked for Alexander’s Bus Company.

    Wonder if he ever drove a bus with a bus conductress there? I can hear the music starting up in my head as I type.

    I’ll have you know my step-son’s late Mother in Law was a Kelty Clippie. About 4’8″ tall and a richt fearsome sicht wi her dander up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNw_Vb5Z5dM

  351. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    Where has he gone into hiding?

    Even though he has been behaving utterly disgracefully for the last few years and has been totally exposed, I don’t want him to do a Robert Maxwell over the holiday weekend.

  352. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    One thing OAPs should be made aware of is just how bad the UK State pension is.

    The EU averages 50% of average salary for State pensions, in the UK it is just a tad over 30%, in between Latvia and Lithuania.

  353. bookie from hell
    Ignored
    says:

    Kezia Dugdale

    Daily Record tomorrow

    starts off using the vow word

    NOOOOOOOOOO

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labour-leadership-frontrunner-kezia-5751708#ICID=sharebar_twitter

  354. effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2015/05/22/carmichael-accepts-full-responsibility-for-memo-leak

    The above web site survey is reaching a stage where I can make a couple of predictions, having monitored the BBC and UK Press!

    There are 9,000 votes cast!
    8,601 people demand that Carmichael must resign!
    399 say he should stay! (must be every Lib Dem in the country)

    Our fair and just media will adopt one of two positions:

    1, See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
    Don’t report it at all, in your own interest of course!

    2, Headline: A massive vote of confidence in Alistair Carmichael as rallies across the country see up to 400 people demand he stays in office, pooling and sharing for another 5 years!
    ( An unnamed Civil servant reports that there were actually 4,000,000 people involved right across Europe, but a nasty Cybernat intercepted the message and leaked a lower figure)

  355. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    I do wish people would stop singling out particular groups to disenfranchise. It is depressing

  356. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    Natasha,

    “Let’s see – what if I were black, or lesbian, or Muslim, or transgender – would you be daring to suggest that that should bar me from voting?”

    I think you are an unionist agent, but I might be wrong.

  357. Natasha
    Ignored
    says:

    Rock
    I think you are a very stupid and deeply unhappy, bitter person. I don’t think I am wrong.

  358. John from Fife
    Ignored
    says:

    Hi Natasha,
    This is not a dig at you personally but if two thirds of the non Scots living in Scotland voted No then unfortunately your pro vote was swallowed up by the No’s.
    Because Nicla isn’t any of the other possible choices you mention she is fair game for the MSM and EBC.

  359. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    @ John from Fife. This is stereotyping at its most pernicious. The suggestion is that individual’s be deprived of their vote because an arbitrarily defined group tend to vote in a particular way. How can that be right? Please think about what you are saying: of course it is personal: only individual’s can vote

  360. Paula Rose
    Ignored
    says:

    Natasha an unionist agent – I have read some ridiculous things on this site but that just about takes the biscuit!

  361. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    “I’ll have you know my step-son’s late Mother in Law was a Kelty Clippie. About 4’8? tall and a richt fearsome sicht wi her dander up.”

    Cumoan gerraff. 🙂

  362. Natasha
    Ignored
    says:

    @Paula Rose
    No, sadly, Paula Rose, it’s all completely true. Ronnie Anderson and the Rev and I have all been ‘turned’ by MI6; they were outed not long ago, and now my cover’s finally been blown. I have no option but to join my secret partners in crime, Will Podmore and Phil Robertson. Not to mention Yoda. But please, someone save me from sensibledave; even I have my limits.

  363. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    Stop!!!

    The topic is about Carmichael – not personal prejudices!

    Keep your eye on the enemies of democracy.

  364. Paula Rose
    Ignored
    says:

    Oh dear dear dear – usual suspects intending to de-rail thread with silly stereotyping again?

  365. Bill McLean
    Ignored
    says:

    In my opinion we must restrict voting on any independence referendum to those who live, and are eligible, in Scotland. To extend the vote to Scots abroad would leave us open to a charge of ethnic nationalism from our enemies, while ours is and always has been “Civic” nationalism.

  366. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/05/my-friend-alistair-carmichael/

    Craig Murray suggests UKOK spooks involved. A historic fraud on Scotland by a Liberal Democrat, a tory boy really, all down to James Bond 007 types? Carmicheal’s a lawyer, enough said.

    To be fair, Danny Alexander must be wondering how on earth he got the bums rush out of the Highlands:D

  367. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    “Carmichael, Alistair Carmichael, shaken not stirred Miss MoneyPenny. etc”. Lets face it, could Carmichael be any worse than the pouting tit of the Bond they have now? Needs to lay off the pies though old Alistair. Mundell could be the idiot side kick that makes him look good. Mundell makes anyone look good.

  368. John from Fife
    Ignored
    says:

    Grouse Beater you are correct.
    It is about Carmichael trying to avoid justice bit this just shows how easy it is for someone to sidetrack a topic.
    Anyway it does look increasingly likely that the Better Together team are involved in this smear but AC is the fall guy.

  369. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    Paula Rose,

    “Natasha an unionist agent – I have read some ridiculous things on this site but that just about takes the biscuit!”

    You still haven’t answered how Greens like yourself cheer the SNP landslide while at the same time defend the Greens for putting up candidates against the SNP.

    You can’t have it both ways.

    On topic, Carmichael must go, but not in the same way as Robert Maxwell did.

  370. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Now 11,096…chugging along…

    https://www.change.org/p/alistair-carmichael-mp-resign-as-an-mp?

  371. Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    heedtracker,

    “Carmicheal’s a lawyer, enough said.”

    Where is Chalks, our resident lawyer?

    And solicitor Paul Kirkwood?

    Preparing the case on behalf of independence supporters here to bring Carmichael to justice, without charging a penny for their services?

  372. Petra
    Ignored
    says:

    HERALDSCOTLAND

    ‘Carmichael faces ethics inquiry as demands grow for him to quit as MP’

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/carmichael-faces-ethics-inquiry-as-demands-grow-for-him-to-quit-as-mp.126979265

  373. PictAtRandom
    Ignored
    says:

    “To be fair, Danny Alexander must be wondering how on earth he got the bums rush out of the Highlands:D”

    But have you thought about the possibility of Danny Boy standing in and winning the O & S by-election? Instant leadership contender for the Libs. And they could be pals with Call Me Dave again.

  374. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Alistair Carmichael as Bond?

    Come on…it’s crying out for a few gags.

    ‘The Spy Who Fingered Me’

    ‘Lardball’

    ‘On Her Majesty’s Not So Secret Service’

    etc…must be plenty more.

  375. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    “But have you thought about the possibility of Danny Boy standing in and winning the O & S by-election?”

    An obvious ploy. Him or some other ‘high profile’ recent loss.

  376. crazycat
    Ignored
    says:

    Here, I hope, is an archived link to the Herald article mentioned by Petra above (sometimes archiving the Herald seems to re-instate the paywall, so I’m not sure if this will work for everyone; for me it counts towards 3 free articles a month or whatever the deal is):

    https://archive.is/PTooL

  377. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian
    “You Only Lie Twice”
    “Kirkwall Is Not Enough”
    “Golden Bye”

  378. Thepnr
    Ignored
    says:

    SNP applying more pressure, this time on Mundell too.

    Alex Salmond suggests David Mundell must have also known about leaked memo

    https://archive.is/JSgUU

  379. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    PS

    “Muckraker”

  380. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Danny Alexander should consider himself extremely fortunate to have been born when he was. In a different era, someone behaving as he has done over the past five years could well have found himself staked out on a dark moor, left to the midges.

    He’s lucky to have gotten away relatively unscathed – it’s unlikely that we’ll see his unusual big coupon re-entering public life. But no-one should feel sorry for him. He’ll still ‘earn’ a crust or two by agreeing to have his name appear on company letterheads, sanctioned by ignorant shareholders who won’t ever have to listen to his pish. Danny was happy enough to promote food-banks, but won’t ever have to use one.

    I’m quite sure I’m not the only one who was delighted to see him being hoofed – he deserved it. In his quiet moments, he must know that what he and his colleagues did was unconscionable, and that a form of justice has been delivered. Here’s hoping he has the good grace and common sense to stay out of everyone’s sight for a very long time.

  381. Paula Rose
    Ignored
    says:

    Doctor Memo

  382. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    If Carmichael thought he was going to get up Monday morning and everything would be back to normal, he’s in for a bit of a shock.

  383. Tackett Beets
    Ignored
    says:

    Decided to pop in for a wee read before bed .

    Oh dear me !
    Come on guys give the girls a break and get off for their case .
    So what if PR or Natasha is a Green supporter ?

    So what if 68% of us oldies are still thinking NO , engage with them nicely and see what’s bothering them , probably Pensions ! Let’s not forget the Fear an Smear was horrendously untruthful .
    FFS they are understandably frightened of change and are less likely to be on-line picking up on the truth.
    Look at the +ve 32% are Yessers and many are regular posters on here .

    IMO , the Ref was correct in the choice of selection on Voting .

    FYI , Every person I know who was born outside Scotland inc Welsh , English , German , Dutch , Austrian , Austrailian , Ukrainians etc etc were all definite Yessers .

    I have some in my social circle who were 50/50 probably No voters ….. Normal good Scottish people but had their own reasons for being No
    Engage nicely and we will start to understand them and then we can put them straight.

    I will add a few confess to regretting their NO vote now.

    Why get het up just now , there is not a REF for a wee whiley yet.

    Please can we get back to respectful debate on FACTS .
    I can’t be er$ed reading over a bickering thread .

    ” Help me Rona”

    ” Are you still here Carmichael “

  384. icyspark
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    What do you call 8 LibDem fannies at Westminster?

    Octopussy 😉

  385. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Chic McGregor –

    ‘Kirkwall Is Not Enough’

    🙂 🙂 🙂

    and, ooh-er, ‘Brownfinger’…

  386. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian Brotherhood
    ” Lie Another Day”

  387. icyspark
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    “Dr. No Thanks”

  388. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    Thepnr says:
    “SNP applying more pressure”

    We know the SNP rigidly stick to pushing the positive rather than being negative, as much as possible. That approach has undoubtedly served them well, even though it can be a bit frustrating for supporters to watch them continually turn the other cheek, almost.

    However, I sense on a number of issues we might be in for a period of greater aggression, perhaps.

  389. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    With the 20-min delay we’re going to get some duplication here, but they’re crying out…

    Carmichael, as Bond, stars in:

    ‘Live & Let Lie’

    ‘For Your Lies Only’

    ‘GoldenLie’

    ‘Tomorrow Never Lies’

    ‘Lie Another Day’

    ‘Liefall’

    ‘Quantum of Credibility’

  390. Brian Doonthetoon
    Ignored
    says:

    Rock – Your attack on Natasha is one of the more ignorant comments I have read in recent weeks.

    “I think you are an unionist agent, but I might be wrong.”

    I expect most Wingers, who have met Natasha, will be shaking their heads at your provocative thought process.

    See this pic:-

    https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/_/rsrc/1424200894947/home/uploaded-pics-page-8/DSCN0160-1000.jpg

    Chris Law (SNP Dundee West) is second from left, Natasha is 4th from left, Jock Scot (Yew Choob) is in the middle, X_Sticks is 2nd from right and Ronnie Anderson is extreme right.

    I guess that must have been a convention of “unionist agents” in Dundee, on St Andrew’s Day last year – specially Grant from ‘The People’s Republic Of Dundee”.

  391. Ben
    Ignored
    says:

    If Alistair Carmichael thinks leaking the document was in the best interests of the Scottish public then he should come out in favour of whistleblowers such as William McNeilly – The Trident whistleblower.

  392. Jim
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    24 May, 2015 at 10:04 pm

    Alistair Carmichael as Bond?

    Come on…it’s crying out for a few gags.

    ‘The Spy Who Fingered Me’

    ‘Lardball’

    ‘On Her Majesty’s Not So Secret Service’

    etc…must be plenty more.
    ____________

    Live and let lie
    Shitraker
    The man with the golden handshake
    Liefall

  393. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    I’d like to add my apologies to our English Born country folk and Senior Citizens, who have been demonised by a few suspect posts.

    Your comments and thoughts are welcomed, especially as you have taken the trouble to find us, and exchange points of view with the “facts” provided by the Rev, etc.

    PS Wonder if Danny Alexander will stab old Ali in the back in order to seek a nomination as Lib Dem candidate for the Northern Isles? Anyone with spare knives, please contact Danny directly.

  394. Tackety Beets
    Ignored
    says:

    A wee test .

    i just did a wee post from my i-pad to stop bickering .

    There been a few posts disparue recently , do you know anything Carmichael ?

  395. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    Any English, Welsh, Irish born folk residing here who currently are anti independence need to be persuaded to change their mind, not disenfranchised.

    Ditto for those elderly voters who have been relentlessly targeted on pensions and anything else regarding their security.

    Persuasion, persuasion, persuasion.

  396. Jim Thomson
    Ignored
    says:

    Elsewhere (Facebook) it has been suggested that the Libdems have already discussed ACs replacement and that they are considering Jo Swinson.

  397. west wales
    Ignored
    says:

    Alistair Carmichael has now really become the Scottish Richard Nixon.

    Tricky Dicky set up the White House ‘plumbers department’ to gather info on opponents.

    Carmichael set up a ‘leak’ to smear opponents.

    Plumbers and leaks. There’s a kind of symmetry there.

  398. cearc
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael managed to hang to just hang on to his seat because he has been a good local MP and benefited his constituents. Even with a positive incumbency it was a close shave.

    The chances of another Libdem being able to take the seat are unlikely and if it were Danny boy no chance.

  399. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    @cearc
    I think if I were a Libdem, I would ask Michael Moore to take it on. JMO.
    Mind you, I hope they don’t.

  400. call me dave
    Ignored
    says:

    Lots of really good ones there, too many to pick out.

    Blunderball!

  401. Petra
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael is such a bl**dy hypocrite.

    ‘Double-handed approach by the First Minister ‘.

    ”It’s quite clear that the SNP have been told one thing in private by their own advisors and then have said something quite different in public to the Scottish people. People in Scotland will see that. They will draw their own conclusions about it and I think it’s another example just of the weakness of the case for Independence which is what they are wanting to hide from.

    You’d think he was referring to himself!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAoqtcTesIg

  402. Lanarkist
    Ignored
    says:

    The Isles Are Not Enough!

  403. Petra
    Ignored
    says:

    @ PictAtRandom says ”But have you thought about the possibility of Danny Boy standing in and winning the O & S by-election? Instant leadership contender for the Libs. And they could be pals with Call Me Dave again.”

    I think if O & S get rid of Carmichael no Libdem will dare to stand there and in Danny Boys case be totally humiliated again.

    O & S residents will no doubt be absolutely scunnered with the Fibdems by now: the ONLY area in Scotland to be duped into for voting for them.

  404. cynicalHighlander
    Ignored
    says:

    @west wales says:
    Carmichael set up a ‘leak’ to smear opponents.

    Plumbers and leaks. There’s a kind of symmetry there.

    Gutter or cesspit politics! Wombels overground underground.

    The last of the Mo er LibDems we hope only not as courageous that Indian tribe.

  405. cearc
    Ignored
    says:

    Chic,

    I doubt that anyone parachuted in could take the seat.

  406. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    Don’t you just love the internet? I reckon that ten, fifteen years ago that lying cnut would have gotten away with this.

  407. Brus MacGallah
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood
    I assume you don’t read the Strathspey and Badenoch Herald where Danny boy has been pontificating that a “local lad” at the heart of government is worth more than a “feeble 56” SNP Mp’s. The man’s arrogance is astounding. Still he knows better than Keynes so what do I know.
    I’m sure his millionaire Toraidh chums will see him right…oh wait.

  408. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    Anyone even thinking of trying to rehabilitate Carmichael should note what Cearc says above (11.19) – he is toast, and no-one, not even the affable Michael Moore, can hope to claw this one back out of the cinders.

    Right now, I’m honestly struggling to think of one ‘Lib-Dem’ who isn’t total gimp material: a nightmarish blether of effete, vacillating has-beens and principle-free wannabees occupying the middle-ground of British politics as formed by the old familiar arse-cheeks. In modern Scotland, Willie Rennie is an embarrassing irrelevance representing a party which stands for nothing, maintained by eejits who, clearly, will fall for anything.

    Roll on 2016 – the SNP will surely claim the entire place for the next decade, but there will be space for SSP, and the Greens. The Labour fag-ends will join their Tory bedfellows in the ‘opposition’ benches – Rennie, the Norman Wisdom of contemporary politics (stepping in pots of paint, getting tangled in lengths of wet wallpaper etc) will be lucky to find a space, and even there, will get the welcome he deserves.

  409. Swami Backverandah
    Ignored
    says:

    from the Herald Scotland article:
    Hugh Halcro-Johnston, vice chair of the Orkney LibDems and former convener of Orkney Islands Council, said …
    “It would be an absolute tragedy if our last Liberal Democrat MP in Scotland was to lose his seat through something like this.”

    An absolute tragedy?
    No it wouldn’t.
    It would be absolutely an absolute victory for ethics, exemplary behaviour, and some semblance of humility if an MP, who admitted he lied to his constituents prior to their vote, resigned, and offered the voters of Orkney and Shetland their right to exercise their vote again.

    They just don’t get it, do they.
    It’s the “Saviour Jim” debacle all over again, this time dressed in a chicken suit.

  410. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Natasha
    Rock’s a contrarian. SD’s a troll. Ignore. Unless you enjoy controversy!

  411. Kenny
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T Tommy Sheridan has tweeted:

    #HopeOverFear have announced a #OneYearOn Rally in #FreedomSquare on #Sat19thSept #WeAreStillYES #WeAreGonnaDoItAnyway

    I like the idea of reclaiming the darkest day in the calendar!

  412. Morag
    Ignored
    says:

    Since we’re near the bottom of the thread, could I just mention that I had an email from Debbie, owner of the cat with the entropion that needed an eye operation? The one we helped raise the money for on Indiegogo?

    He’s doing great and she sent me a photo of him with both eyes open and clear and pain-free. And he’s turning into a spoiled-rotten house-cat.

    Doesn’t it just give you a warm fuzzy feeling?

  413. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Morag
    Yes!

  414. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    Getting an early sleep (for me) for an even early day’s work. Some food for thought:
    https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2015/05/24/spineless-lying-bastards/

  415. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    It would be absolutely an absolute victory for ethics, exemplary behaviour, and some semblance of humility

    That there’s fightin’ talk, partner; pistol whippin’ honesty. I like it.

  416. Chic McGregor
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ian
    I can’t second guess the mindset of the Northern Isles, you may well be right and no Libdem would stand a chance, I would bloody well hope that is the case, but if there is a re-election then the Libdems have to put someone up.

    I don’t think Carmichael would stand a snowball’s and whatever remains of Libdem reputation, if anything, would, in that instance, vanish completely.

    I merely suggest Moore, who was removed from office with still a modicum of credibility, would be my choice, given the limited knowledge I have of Libdemery of course.

    Of course, it goes without saying (but I’ll say it anyway) I do hope any candidate they can come up with will be soundly rejected and another SNP MP returned.

  417. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Brotherhood: Roll on 2016 – the SNP will surely claim the entire place for the next decade, but there will be space for SSP, and the Greens

    The Enlightenment – in modern dress. 🙂

  418. Morag
    Ignored
    says:

    I’ve asked Debbie if I can put the picture on a server so I can link to it, or if I can tweet it, but I better wait till she says it’s OK.

  419. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    Good to know he’s doing well Morag, thank you 🙂

  420. Dr Jim
    Ignored
    says:

    Jo Swinson is it

    Sharp as a big fat club that one,she thinks potholes are the responsibility of the Scottish Government and if we had voted anything other than Lib Dem you’re a higher risk of dying of cancer
    It was in her election literature “Honest”

    And you can believe me I’m not a Lib Dem

  421. Still Positive.
    Ignored
    says:

    @Chic McGregor:

    Didn’t Michael Moore resign as SoS and that’s why Carmichael was appointed? Thought Moore resigned on a principle that he was being asked to do something that was against Scottish public opinion. I thought then that he was a decent man.

    Like you I am not up to date with LibDem mindsets.

  422. John Moss
    Ignored
    says:

    Let’s not mess about here.

    Alastair Carmichael is a lair and a failed conman.

    What is his english parliamentary e-mail address?

    What is David Cameron’s english parliamentary address?

    Let’s write directly to Alastair Carmichael (and copy in David Cameron) and ask why this he expects us to pay him a £67,000 plus income after trying to defame our First Minister?

    It’s tiome to make the bugger pay!

  423. Still Positive.
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Dr Jim: I have heard a lot of this Jo Swinson on cancer but no details. Please enlighten us.

    I live in the neighbouring constituency of West Dunbartonshire and we share – in some parts – an MSP in Gil Paterson in Clydebank and Milngavie – a lovely man.

  424. Connor McEwen
    Ignored
    says:

    It is not all bad have a larf an tha on Newzoids on S.T.V player
    ——–

  425. Oneironaut
    Ignored
    says:

    Getting a tiny little bit fed up with the s**t stirrers on this site.
    (looking at you Rock!)

    As for Yoda, Will Podmore, et al… Why does anyone even bother acknowledging their existence at all?

    Normally I don’t bother with this sort of thing, but seeing some good people getting insulted over the past weeks is really starting to get on my one remaining nerve!

  426. John Moss
    Ignored
    says:

    Sent this to Alastair, copied David Cameron and David Mundell.

    Hi Alastair,

    You defamed my first Minister.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/on-public-record/

    http://derekbateman.co.uk/2015/05/23/a-small-merci/

    I don’t want to pay you your parliamentary wage of £67,060.

    I want you to resign right now!

    Given your recent admission of guilt can you tell me what role your former deputy David Mundell played?

    Was he aware of your actions?

    Can I trust him or should I consider him to be a liar too?

    Your Sovereign,

    John

  427. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Grouse Beater (12.38) –

    Here’s hoping so.

    In a Labour-lite Holyrood there will be no time, space, or tolerance for the blinkered bitterness which has characterised ‘Opposition’.

    The Green Party, and SSP, will be represented in the Scottish Parliament this time next year – hopefully, they will form the backbone of a meaningful, driven opposition to neo-Liberal tendencies within the SNP. That is as it should be, and such opposition will surely be welcomed by Nicola Sturgeon and her party – they need to sharpen their teeth in real debate, with people who have solid aims and principles.

    Enlightenment?

    It could happen, eh? SLab has devalued the Scottish parliament – the behaviour of Gray, Lamont, Dugdale and Murphy (albeit in absentium) has demonstrated the contempt these people feel for Scottish devolution. They always knew, and trusted, that the constitutional reality would protect them – i.e., the Scottish ‘assembly’, as promised by Blair, was ever only going to be a ‘parish council’.

    Problem now – for the McLeishes, Wallaces, McConnells, Alexanders et al – is that the people of Scotland have quite taken to the idea of having a parliament, have quite liked the idea of having a party which speaks up for their concerns, and have voted to give power to a party which overtly desires independence from Westminster control.

    This revolution deserves celebration, but there is always another hurdle, another target. The SNP rides high, and it will, hopefully, do well next May. The SSP will continue to stake a claim for popular support (please look out for interventions across Scotland next Wednesday, following the Queen’s Speech) – now that the WM ‘question’ has been resolved in Scotland’s favour, and SLab is, effectively, stone-deid, we need all left-minded folk to consider where they want to be one year from now.

    No matter what happens, we should all promote the success of the ‘GOYA’ movement (Get Off Your Arse!)

  428. manandboy
    Ignored
    says:

    Apologies if referenced previously

    Scotland’s leading historian has said he believes Scottish independence is now “more likely than it’s ever been in Scottish history since 1707”.
    Professor Sir Tom Devine, who voted “Yes” in September, said it was due to a combination of a Conservative majority government at Westminster combined with the Labour collapse in Scotland.
    The emeritus professor of Scottish history at Edinburgh University wrote in 2011 that economic austerity, a right-wing UK government and Labour losing in Scotland would make independence “more likely”, but not inevitable.
    The historian told Bill Whiteford on BBC Radio’s Good Morning Scotland: “It’s the perfect storm for those who wish [for independence] – but it’s even more so than that, because not many commentators have stressed the significance of the Conservative victory.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-32870996

  429. bugsbunny
    Ignored
    says:

    I see that Number 10 has ruled out giving E.U. citizens a vote in the upcoming in/out shake it all about referendum, with the exception of Irish, Maltese and Cypriot citizens.

    I wonder what the outcry, and indeed the outcome, of the Independence Referendum would be if we did the same?

    But as we were handing out our countries future to the likes of overseas students, who after graduation will probably not even come back to Scotland, possible holidays excepted, then the outcome was to be expected. As we are in the U.K. we can not deny rUK citizens voting. Maybe we need to wait and hope the no ers just go and die off.

    Stephen.

  430. schrodingers cat
    Ignored
    says:

    have mundell or rennie appologiesed for insulting the fm of scotland and the french ambassador, in public,on evidence provided by carmicheal? surely an apology is in order?

    the fact that the courier has come out fighting for mundell after AS’s comments shows the unionists line in the sand on this one………

    lets cross it

  431. bugsbunny
    Ignored
    says:

    About Carmichael as Bond,

    Keech Finger: Everything he touches turns to shite.

    Brown Eye: What he talks out of.

    Bucket Raker: Similar to barrel scrapper, the depths he will plunge to smear the innocent.

    Never say never again: He thinks he’s turned a new leaf, but it’s as festered as the side he turned over.

    I’mapussy: Say’s it all.

    From England with Love: We all felt that love last September.

    On her Majesty’s “Not so” Secret Service: PURRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

    The Secretary of State who fucked me: (Scotland).

    DR NO: Say’s it all.

    Licence to Lie: Say’s it all.

    “Scare” The Living Daylights: Out of Pensioners.

    Scotland is not enough: For a Fat Lying Cunt.

    The Money Troughs are Forever: So he thinks.

    Stephen.

  432. manandboy
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T Ken McIntosh described the Labour Party Machine as guilty of using intimidation, threats and pressure against his supporters. Sounds more like what you would expect from the Mafia than from a political party. Naw, I’m sure it’s just a coincidence.

  433. jock mc X
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s 4.30am and there’s nobody here,so i can pull out my
    doodle.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufMUE1zAE8k

  434. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    Well here we are again folks at another Wings prize giving evening and the competition has been stiff this year but I am now going to open the envelope ………
    AND THE WINNER IS……….
    Chic Mcgregor for Muckraker,

    lets hear it folks for Chic Mcgregor, cumon up chic and give us your (yet another) acceptance speech who hoo clap clap clap!!!

  435. john king
    Ignored
    says:

    Oneironaut says
    “Normally I don’t bother with this sort of thing, but seeing some good people getting insulted over the past weeks is really starting to get on my one remaining nerve!”

    You have one left?

    why didn’t you tell me, can I share it?

    There are a great many people of English origin in this site many of whom I would like to consider as friends, none of whom deserve to be treated as if they shouldn’t have a say in the future of their country we shouldn’t be looking for excuses to exclude we should be looking for more persuasive arguments to INCLUDE the English voters who don’t see Scotland in the same light as our more enlightened friends,

    Division serves only one sides purpose and its not ours,
    to the people on here (you know who you are) who espouse (shall we say) a more radical approach to the goal of independence, maybe this isn’t the site for you,

    I for one cannot/will not allow Ian Smart, George Foulkes and their ilk to be proven right, we are better people that, we are better people than them, the minute the independence campaign gets to be about “blood and soil” you can count me out,

    I love England and I love the English and they are as much a part of me as I am a part of them and nothing and no one can change that, I don’t choose to divorce myself from the English people I just don’t want my life to be run by Westminster and politicians of whatever nation, creed, or ethnic origin,

    let me ask, was anyone any less independence minded when Gordon Brown was prime minister?

    This lazy facile approach to the independence question is the sort of thing that fuel idiots like Smarts assertions that “Better 100 years of Tory rule than a failed Scotland turning on the poles and pakis”, Its THAT attitude we want away from not to perpetuate in a newly independent Scotland,

    I can believe a lot about the people of Scotland I am willing to believe the can be gulled into believing that immigration is a problem for us, they are willing to believe that we could not pay our pensioners a living pension in an independent country, they are happy to accept we are indeed supported by the taxpayer in England and without them we would starve, all of these things they believe we can correct and inform to bring them out of the fugue that has been spun around all of us by a relentless campaign by Westminster that we are not as good as we think we are.

    The country that enabled the industrial age are not good enough to run a country who’s population is much smaller that equivalent countries the population of Belgium is 13.1 million and you have to ask yourself why that is, in a country of such invention as Scotland we cannot keep our own offspring in our own country, we cannot create a country worth staying for, who should we hold responsible for that?

    Heres the kind of person we should get out and talk to,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbleTT3N4KA

  436. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    John that’s a noble post but can you answer this question,what if Germany and Poland were in a union and the huge polish community denied German independence with their no vote. Do you think they would meekly accept that outcome like we did? I think you know the answer.

  437. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    @ John King

    Well said John.

    You can count me in on that Scotland too fella. 🙂

  438. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    The smear didn’t do much good it was a wipe out. 56 down and three to go. It fact it maybe made folk angry, and helped the SNP because voters knew it was not true. The electorate are fed up of politicians lies.

    Next the Holyrood elections. Another wipe out. Especially with PR. It all looks good. Carmichael is jealous of Nicola and wanted revenge for the TV defeat. Nicola is a good caring, honest politician. Something Carmichael could never be.

    Scotland has been depopulated by Westminster rule. Devolution is increasing Scotland population. Soctland has a forty million disporia. People and families who had to leave to find jobs. If Scotland’s population had increased at the same growth as the rest of the UK since 1707, the population would be 15million. Scotland needs growth for jobs and prosperity. Westminster has secretly and illegally taken the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland. Westminster centralist policies have congested London S/E and adversely affected the economy.

    People in Scotland have wakened up. In five years those in favour of Independence will be60/40. That is the time to have another Referendum. In the meantime get every Unionist politician out of Scotland.

    Most EU countries welcome Scotland’s continued membership and have said so publicly. The majority of EU members do not give a damn if the rest of the UK leave. The EU member States applaud the Scottish MEP and ignore Nigel Farague.

    It is Westminster whose policies have caused colossal UK debt and havoc in the EU. There was over lending in Europe from London Money markets. Corrupt governments in Spain, Portugal. Non of the EU countries have such colossal debt because the ECB does not print money or allow EU countries to have too much debt because of their fiscal policies. Greece is a special case. Although how is Greece supposed to survive when the EU are lending Greece funds and then wanting it back, six months later at 10% interest. Adding to the debt, when ECB interest rates are -0.5%

    Scotland should get Independence, lower debt, and join the Euro. Better for the economy, business and travellers. That is where the London banks make (false Tory) profits by currency
    exchange and illegal manipulation. Non of the banking crooks go to jail they are protected by the Westminster political parties. The corrupt bankers fund Westminster political parties. Westminster sanctionsnd starve th vulnerable. Cold, worried, hungry people get sick.

  439. Silverytay
    Ignored
    says:

    I no longer post a lot on this site but I visit it everyday and I would just like to thank John King for his post @6.13
    John , your post needed saying.

    During the referendum I spent a great day out at Arbroath with Paula Rose , Ronnie , Threpnr , BDTT and others and not once did we question each other where we came from or what we did .
    We were united in trying to provide a better future for everyone who lived and worked in Scotland regardless of race , colour , creed or anything else that the establishment would use to try and divide us over .

  440. Dorothy Devine
    Ignored
    says:

    Jock , liked your doodle if you’ll pardon the expression!

    John King , most excellent ,I’m with you in your Scotland.

  441. Lollysmum
    Ignored
    says:

    Jock Mc X @ 4.38am

    Some very special moments in that short but entertaining vid. Thank you for the link 🙂

  442. Tackety Beets
    Ignored
    says:

    Joe mc X. @ 4.38 am

    That’s a great video .

    Thank you

  443. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Ken500, same red and blue Westminster creep show about to quit the EU, buying another generation of Trident nukes and dumping them in Scotland .

    Our imperial masters will still be able to strut the world stage, like the owners of 2% of planet earth’s weapons of mass destruction should, unless there is a nuclear war head or sub accident in Argyle, but it’ll be fine because Faslane is a safe enough distance from the home counties.

    Accidents happen, think of all those nuke clean up jobs, jocks really don’t know how lucky they are to be in teamGB.

  444. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Poland was hand over to Russia dominance at Yalta. The Allies decision affected the Polish economy. There was no vote or Referendum. The Poles were not given the choice. The 11WW was a total destruction. Poland was invaded by Germany and then given over to Russia. There was no vote or Referendum, no choice.

    Russia wanted to protect it’s borders after being attacked twice by Germany in the space of thirty years and a Depression. There was no vote or Referendum. Russia came out of the 1WW because of the Russian Revolution. The majority of Russian were treated as feudal serfs, in poverty, and had no political rights. The Czar (wife) was an absolute ruler and refused any kind of democratic rights for the people. Eventually the starving people rose up demanded rights for the Duma, the Parliament. (political administration body) There were riots and the Army shot protesters. The Revolution started. The 1WW made matters worse but collectivise the opposition and gave access to arms and supplies. There was no universal suffrage in 1917 in Europe or Britain.

    The UK was a political and economic Union of two equal countries that were supposed to be treated equally by a combined Government. They were not. The centralised government secretly and illegally, took the smaller one’s wealth, and governed in the interest of the larger dominate country. The smaller country was outvoted 10 to 1, so fought for a more equal system. Devolution/Independrnce. ‘Full fiscal autonomy, Home Rule/Federalism’. That was promised but has not been delivered.

    The decision of a Referendum is for all of those who live in Scotland, whose lives will be affected. That is fair and equal. There could be a two/three residential qualification for those with a bigger stakeholding. Would it make any difference? It is not practical to include ex pats. The logistics are impossible, who are they, what defines them, where do they bide, all over the world. Impossible for administration.

    A UK Referedum vote would bring up the same question of criteria/qualification. E.g is the EU
    Referedum vote representative. If people in the rest of the UK vote No but Scotland votes YES? There will be trouble ahead. Just face the music and chance. The Tory chancers will self destruct over Europe. So much for stability. How many will they take with them? .

  445. FairFerfochen
    Ignored
    says:

    Surely if the seat was won by deception then victory falls to second on the list.
    Would a re-vote even be necessary?

  446. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    @joe Mc X,
    Thanks Joe.Great post which sums my attitude up completely.

  447. Almannysbunnet
    Ignored
    says:

    Lollysmum says:
    24 May, 2015 at 12:41 pm
    Orkney & Shetland have difficulties in getting the news out about Carmichael.
    I’m not so sure about that. Try yes shetland on facebook.
    http://tinyurl.com/plwwd2h
    Buster the cat is keeping the Shetlanders up to date. I think he would get on fine with the Weegingerdug 🙂

  448. Almannysbunnet
    Ignored
    says:

    So Willie Rennie has handcuffed himself and his party to the anchor that is Alistair Carmichael? Good he can go down with him. He believes Carmichael deserves a second chance, fair enough but only if the good people of Orkney and Shetlands get a second chance too.

  449. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    Ken-I used those 2 as a hypothetical example. Imagine any other union between two countries in the world and an immigrant population swung the vote to achieve a no vote. Do you honestly think any other country would just shrug their shoulders and accept that result? I don’t. Excuse the language but we are soft as shite.

  450. Grizzle McPuss
    Ignored
    says:

    @John King

    *Thumbs up thingy*

  451. Hoss Mackintosh
    Ignored
    says:

    Another link for BBC Labour…

    Producer on Call Kay (with and E.) Ailsa Macintosh – sister of Ken Macintosh who is running for SLAB leadership who was also a BBC producer by pure coincidence.

    http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/djtkxx/kaye-adams–16042015

    It is a small world down at PQ.

    Is it compulsory to be married, related, or friends with Labour politicians in order to get a job there?

  452. FairFerfochen
    Ignored
    says:

    @John King,

    Hear Hear!

  453. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    @Almannysbunnet

    Yeah, wee Willie is asking for fair mindedness and second chances… hmmm.

    Just how many times has Willie asked for an SNP members’ resignation? His fair mindedness only appears to cover the contingency of a Lib Dem cabinet minister attempting deliberately manipulate the public, leaking misleading memos, abusing and compromising his office, lying flat out to the public about culpability and wasting a considerable amount of public cash in an attempt to cover his own deceitful arse.

    Of course the fact that Willie, who was the Telegraph’s first port of call in the now infamous initial article, is up to his wossiname in this debacle has nothing whatsoever to do with his call for second chances. I’m sure he’s just being fair minded and Liberal and in no way seeking mercy from a well pissed off electorate ahead of next years Holyrood elections. 😉

  454. Now's the Hour
    Ignored
    says:

    Just heard on RS news that the lying turd is not intending to step down. How much longer can this go on? And if Wullie Rennie is reading this, how about one of your second chances for the good people of O&S?

  455. R-type Grunt
    Ignored
    says:

    Speaking of Call Kay (with an E)..

    The first opportunity after Carmichael’s admission for the public to discuss the issue on the only national radio phone-in and the topic is taxi’s. Really?

    This stinks. I see Hoss has already provided a link between the witch & Labour but I wonder if there’s a personal connection between Kay (with an E) & Mr. Carmichael. She sounds very flustered this morning. Perhaps it’s her Twitter feed lighting up?

  456. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    What immigrant population? People who have settled in a country are not immigrants. They are residents/citizens. Do people want Scotland to be depopulated even further by not accepting free movement. People from Scotland go, live and work all over the world. The Referedum was decided on Election rules plus a vote 16/17 year old. Westminster lies swung the Referendum. They have been found out. The elderly were targetted. The elderly do not like change, they are conservative with a small ‘c’, and are more likely to vote. Just a fact of life. They are less likely to use the Internet for information. Internet access is more restricted in rural areas. All these conditions are changing. Keep the faith. Turning inwards on fellow citizens will not help. A little compassion goes a long way, if people want a fair and just society.

    The illegal wars, the majority in the world were against caused the migration in Europe. The US (illegally) who have strong restrictive immigration policies caused the migration in Europe. Along with France and the UK. Other European countries are having to deal with the situation and show some compassion.

    Even if Scotland had voted YES there would still be negotiations on the deliverance of more powers, just as there is now. Demographical changes will bring Independence within 5 years. Westminster has to come up with a legitimate deal. The majority in Scotland did vote SNP and support their policies of a better deal for people in Scotland.

  457. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Silverytay 25May at 7.44 am

    ‘I no longer post on this site’

    You just did @ 7.44 am

    : – )

  458. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Still Positive. says: 25 May, 2015 at 12:59 am:

    ” … Like you I am not up to date with LibDem mindsets.”

    Och! Nae worry then, Still Positive, neither are the LibDems up to date with the LibDems Mindsets.

  459. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    Willie Rennie … believes Carmichael deserves a second chance

    I must remember that defence should I inadvertently bash somebody on the head and he dies.

    “I need a second chance. It was an error of judgment.”

    You know, humour aside, I’d recommend he keep his job as an MP if it taught him how to exercise humility for the duration of his tenure. But I know he will do the same again if he felt in safe company, as he did last time.

  460. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    The Labour BBC Mafia Patronage. Keep it in the family. Like the Masons. The tentacles constrict society. The graft and corruption.

  461. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    Ken-ok you and I can move to Catalonia and vote no on their independence in any future legitimate referendum. That will be fine and dandy and morally sound.

  462. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael does need a second chance, in a By-Election that is.

  463. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    @ John King at 6:13

    Very well said, If those who wish to disenfranchise certain groups get their way, I will opt out of support for independence. I don’t want to live in that kind of state; it is what I already have.

  464. BJ
    Ignored
    says:

    I always thought Willie Rennie was the comic relief of the LibDems and his support of A. Carmichael proves it.

    Shows the LibDems are not to be trusted to tell the truth.

  465. Iain Gray's Subway Lament
    Ignored
    says:

    The disgraced liar Carmichael is totally unrepentant and continues his arrogant lies this morning on Orkney Radio.

    https://soundcloud.com/radio-orkney/around-orkney-monday-25th-may-2015

    He’s also completely contradicting himself as he’s back to trying to desperately imply the bullshit memo was true even though he was forced to admit it was a lie in his feeble forced ‘apology’ he made only because was caught.

    What is now beyond question is that even if the smearer Carmichael somehow clings on to his MP status and expenses claims he will do as much damage to the lib dems at Holyrood in 2016 and from now on as Murphy did to ‘scottish’ Labour.

    Something for wee willie Rennie to ‘celebrate’ as we still wait for him to make HIS long overdue apology for his self-evident involvement in the dirty tricks and smearing of Nicola.

  466. IvMoz
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael on Radio Orkney today. Ffwd to around ten minutes in.

    soundcloud.com/radio-orkney/around-orkney-monday-25th-may-2015

  467. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “However, I think Wings perceives there are degrees of passion and so allows some leeway, Stoker someone who understands the assembly of imperialist armoury we are fighting.”

    No, I don’t. In fact, alert readers will know that if I impose a clear rule, such as a filter which automatically excludes certain words, I get very very grumpy indeed if people try to circumvent it. That’s why Stoker’s post has been deleted and they’re now on pre-moderation.

  468. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    Well it’s official. Cameron has “disenfranchised” most of Europe from voting in the EU referendum.

  469. Gillian_Ruglonian
    Ignored
    says:

    @ jock Mc X – some good old stuff in there, thanks 🙂

    @John King – and everyone else who’s commented on his post – Well said!
    This is what this community (wings) is about for me.

    I’m not a member of the snp, I wouldn’t describe myself as a ‘nat’ but I see independence for Scotland as natural (and inevitable) and most importantly, a vehicle for political, economic and social change.

    How we get to the point of change (independence day?!) is a question for all of us to consider. Do you want to forge ahead with popular consensus and good will, or with a begrudged, contested small majority that will forever be questionable to those not as ‘enlightened’ to the workings of the UK political system?

    We are living in extraordinary times, and this is a delicate process (dismantling the remnants of an empire), keep cool guys 😉

  470. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    I am also greatly dismayed, incidentally, that there are still people on here demanding that English-born people shouldn’t have the vote. It’s not a moderation offence because it’s a difference of opinion and those are allowed, but it’s a fucking depressing difference of opinion.

  471. Silverytay
    Ignored
    says:

    Ken500@9.38
    I will rephrase that to , I now rarely post on this site but I could not do without my daily fix of W.O.S

  472. Jim Thomson
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T – how are we going to sample votes in the future?

    http://www.sell2wales.gov.uk/search/show/Search_View.aspx?id=MAY085231

    My only joy in life (standing for hours, ticking off votes at a count table) will be removed … 🙁

  473. Iain Gray's Subway Lament
    Ignored
    says:

    Hey Stu, I don’t know if it was a fault with my PC (very possible) or what but every time I try to post I seem to be in pre-moderation.

    I hope it’s just a technical glitch you might be able to fix or summat. 🙂

  474. Edward
    Ignored
    says:

    Slightly O/T
    Just made an observation while watching Sky News

    When ever they have a graphic up of the United Kingdom , they colour the ‘UK’ to highlight

    Usually they colour red, England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland as well as the islands surrounding.

    That is with the exception of the Isle of Man, which according to Sky News graphic is not part of the UK

    Most likely a lazy error on the part of Sky, but high lights that broadcasters can be lazy

  475. Swami Backverandah
    Ignored
    says:

    Just trying to clarify some terms of reference.
    Is this person’s role classified as a civil servant?
    By that I mean, is he a civil servant?
    https://www.gov.uk/government/people/chris-flatt

  476. Morag
    Ignored
    says:

    Jim, it’s for the council elections, by STV. They have to use electronic counting or it would take all week. It’s not a new thing.

  477. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Swami Backverandah

    Yes. PPS is a civil service role. SPAD is not. Why do you want to know?

  478. Cadogan Enright
    Ignored
    says:

    The scandalous Tory proposal to exclude 1.5 million EU Nationals from in out referendum stands in sharp contrast to the SNPs decision to treasure all the people of the nation equally – even though it meant they had a more difficult hill to climb in the referendum as a result.

    Scottish body politic shines in comparison to the WM cesspit

  479. Morag
    Ignored
    says:

    Iain Gray’s Subway Lament, check your post for possible banned words – including innocent letter strings within ordinary words.

    I had a post do that because I included the word “scrape”, which contains a banned word within it.

  480. Gillian_Ruglonian
    Ignored
    says:

    Whilst I’m in the mood for praising posts – go Stu! 😉

  481. Grouse Beater
    Ignored
    says:

    Alert readers will know that if I impose a clear rule, such as a filter which automatically excludes certain words

    “Certain words?” That’s a difficult one to keep note of as time passes, or when contributors have not seen the original transgression. In any event, I was talking in a general sense – your comment that everyone has a right to express their views, but personal abuse is prohibited.

  482. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    Carmichael is not fit to represent anyone in Parliament, other than his bank manager.

  483. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    I couldn’t believe the direity of Radio Scotland this morning. After the usual round of weather, transport and sport, we got a lengthy discussion of how to scrap your used car. Then followed a ten minute discussion of Andy Pandy and the Flowerpot Men. Then more weather and transport (no sport if my memory serves).

    At 8 am we get a brief run through of the “news” with a sentnece on Alistair Carmichael saying he won’t resign.

    Then followed a 20 minute discussion, yet again, of the labour Party leadership. A rerun of the weekend soundbites from Ken MacIntosh and Kezia Dugdale. Paul Sinclair (Labour Party) and David Clegg (editor of the Daily Record) were the pundits.

    After this, a long item on why we never do well at the Eurovision Song contest. Answer? Because we don’t have the best songs.

    I gave up at that point having remembered why I never listen to R Scotland now.

    So thanks for that link to Radio Orkney, which is BBC but at least far enough away from PQ to be able to discuss real news for grown-ups.

  484. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    @Morag
    The Irish do STV by hand and manage pretty well.

    On the exclusion thingy:-
    depending on the law of the land I’m in I can be English or Scottish or Irish or British. But I’m here in Fife in my own home spending my pension, using the Vic and, in due course social services and the burial ground. Do I get to vote or not?

    Does being Yes and SNP make any difference?

  485. BJ
    Ignored
    says:

    In a Glasgow on Saturday and had a conversation with an English visitor who is absolutely delighted to have the Tories for another 5 years. He can’t understand why the Scots don’t want to stay in the union and worries about border posts and passports if we become Independant.

    He only reads the Telegraph and isn’t too keen on the internet for news.

    We parted with both of us agreeing to disagree.

  486. macnakamura
    Ignored
    says:

    Edward says:
    25 May, 2015 at 10:17 am

    That is with the exception of the Isle of Man, which according to Sky News graphic is not part of the UK
    ==========
    Isle of Man is not part of UK.

  487. Tinto Chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    It’s been said above but well said, john king. But how many times does it have to be said? It’s the Nay-saying Scots who have to be persuaded, since they are the largest opposing group. Blaming foreign students, the English, the old is refusing to see the plank in our own eye, as well as being divisive.

    Willie Rennie: “the Norman Wisdom of contemporary politics”. Thank you, Ian Brotherhood @ 11.57. Spot on! Cheered me up this morning.

    But who is Mr Grimsdale, eh? Ever thought of that?…

  488. Swami Backverandah
    Ignored
    says:

    hiya Fiona

    thanks for the feedback.

    Why do I want to know?
    I’m a researcher.
    Also, I’m not on twitter, tho I read some who are 😉

  489. Cadogan Enright
    Ignored
    says:

    @swami
    Anybody who has worked at the NI Office would have been required to work diligently to undermine the 1998 British/Irish Peace Agreement – against the clearly expressed wishes of the Irish people in 2 referenda North and South.

    This person will have security service muck on his shoes.

  490. DerekM
    Ignored
    says:

    im confused Robert what is the lib dem party mindset? does anybody know.

    How can that little pathetic apology of a politician Willie Rennie come out and say Fozzy deserves another chance,this is a man who on a regular basis calls for people to be sacked for a lot less than Fozzy has done.

    You are a lying little shit Rennie and up to your neck in this scandal, your days in our parliament are numbered as is your parties tick tock.

  491. Silverytay
    Ignored
    says:

    We can’t keep fiddling about with who is and who is not eligible to vote to get the result we want .
    It is up to us to accept that there are some who we will never convert but it is also up to us to educate those who can be converted to yes .
    My hardest convert was a member of the O.O and die hard Rangers fan and his wife was as proud as punch when she came out of the polling station and was able to tell me that he had voted yes .

    There was a lady who was a member of the O.O and an ex squaddie who converted to yes and she did some fantastic work in converting people to yes , in fact she did a guest post on one of the pro independence sites and if my memory serves me right it was this one .

    My oldest Son’s father in law who is an O.A.P and English also voted yes along with my youngest Son’s girlfriend who is English and expecting our grandchild in the next few weeks .
    My own father in law who is in his mid 80,s and ex RAF also voted yes .
    If we really want to build a better country we have to stop demonising no voters and work on educating those who minds can be changed to yes .
    Unless there is a perfect storm in the next few years last years referendum was probably my last chance to see an Independent Scotland but for the sake of my Son’s and grandchildren I will keep on campaigning for one .

  492. Fiona
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Swami Backverandah

    Some confusion can arise because of the three letter abbreviation. PPS usually means Principle Private Secretary and it is a civil service post. That is, the person who fills it is a career civil servant who joins the civil service through open competition.

    However PPS can also stand for Parliamentary private secretary, and that is not a civil service post: it is a political post often used to reward MP’s without cost. Not the same thing at all

    A SPAD is different again: they are not normally MP’s though many become MP’s later. They are the ones who work for the party itself, or for a think tank, before being appointed as a SPAD. They are usually young, with political ambitions and they are wholly under the control of the minister who appoints them.

    They have no business at all in politics, IMO. But they are very common by now.



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