Twisting in the wind
Posted on
May 25, 2015 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
We thought you should hear this extraordinary interview with Alistair Carmicheal from BBC Radio Orkney this morning.
(Around Orkney, BBC Radio Orkney, 25 May 2015)
.
The former Scottish Secretary’s excuse for lying on air is a feeble, Hothersall-esque semantic dodge, and his excuse for not resigning is that his years of service as a constituency MP ought to outweigh the fact that a UK government minister abused his office and lied to the public in order to undermine the democratically-elected leader of Scotland and cling on to his own job.
Having now heard the case for the defence, readers can reach their own verdicts.
Willie Rennie is doing a great job destroying what’s left of the Lib Dem vote in Scotland.
Proven Liar Represents Orkney and Shetland.
That’s a good look, is it?
So Carmichael won’t go willingly, looks like he’ll have to be dragged out kicking and screaming, grabbing as much gold and silver as he goes.
Well done that BBC interviewer.
Carmichael is a disgrace.
That really exposes the fallacy of FPTP. Like its not a vote for a party but a vote for a member for this constituency. So we can have a right political bastard as our member just as long as he’s a good constituency MP.
I thought now the nanny MP had been superceded by the nanny state we should be voting for Governments rather than MPs.
Thank you for putting this out there. I love hearing the presenter and interviewer’s accent. Luffly
Guilty M’ Lord.
What!
Incidentally, I love the interviewers tone ‘that wisnie true!’ – class 🙂
Liar Liar.
“In the public interest” – he says.
“In the public schoolboys’ interests” – I say.
He probably is “twisted with wind”. Basically farting out his mouth.
No wonder Nicola well and truly Sturgeonated him last year. That was absolutely pitiful.
Oh good grief (again)!
Carmichael says he wants to “get on with” being an MP. Wants to “get on with” claiming an MPs salary more like.
We need to keep the pressure on this lying toad until he can’t brass it out any longer. He must be forced to go.
Not that big a surprise that an arrogant liar and smearer like Carmichael is totally unrepentant. Disgraceful yes, but not all that surprising.
Carmichael embodies precisely why the voters hold Clegg and the yellow tories in such utter contempt.
Carmichael and his fellow liar Rennie will do massive damage to them from here on in as the very public ‘face’ of the lib dems in scotland. How could it be otherwise? They are both proven liars just like Clegg.
Guilty!
I wonder what he would say if it was an SNP MP caught lying
Look, I was in this relationship for 14 years I did the stabbing ( or bayoneting if you will) It is something I regret, I’ve apologised now I just want to move on and get back to my job.
Fair fa ye, Orkney, it’s graun to hae programmes in yer ain leid. Gin we hid the same in Lallans doon hame, we widnae hae yon cringe, nor rule frae London.
“His Staff” thought it was of public interest ….so, that’ll be Mundell then ? :/
He claims to have authorised the release of a document without having read it himself!
Even if it were true, he had ministerial responsibility so it would make no difference.
Pants on fire ?
Rennie is calling to give Carmichael a second chance. Fine–no problem. But make sure you give his constitiuents in Orkney & Shetland a second chance too.
And 53% of our population accept this is a normal way to conduct ourselves?I despair.This man has to go!
We’ve all commented vociferously over the past few days (and I refer to vast majority of level headed people throughout Scotland via numerous media).
In summary: “Carmichael…you’re toast. You are a disgrace to the high office of the Secretary of State for Scotland and a fraud to the electorate of Orkney & Shetland.
Just go and stop trying to take the reputation of Scottish politics even more closer to the gutter level as so often reached at Westminster”
Love the way the Orcadians don’t try to Anglify their accents. Love the way they speak. Reminds a bit of the Borders accent.
He has just stuck his head out further, which will make it easier when the axe does fall
He, like the rest of them, is only sorry that it came back tae bite him oan the erse. He should resign and so should that useless half-wit Rennie for supporting him.
Sometimes they try and tough it out. 🙁
PS: Hootsman!
……………………………………………………….
THE number of red squirrels in Scotland is increasing as they begin to return to their former habitats thanks to a pioneering project to save the endangered species, the Scottish Government has announced.
The reverse in fortunes for the iconic red squirrel is has been most notable in the Borders, Dumfries and Galloway, Ayrshire, and the north-east of Scotland.
…………………………………………………….
Hmmm!
Seems like the laying low tactic is beginning to unravel.
Pisspoor interview – well seeing he wouldn’t go up against one of BBC Scotland’s tougher inquisitors like, er…
um…
Is it credible, that he, a lawyer, and Secretary of State for Scotland, would OK the release of a damaging document to the press – a short memo – without even having READ it first himself?
When asked, why did he LIE about not having seen it before it was published in the Telegraph:
He says: ‘Well, I had not read it in detail at that time… I had not actually seen it before it was released’.
Everything that is wrong with politics pre-SNP Team56. Erm, Team 57 coming soon, I’d hope.
I hope he stays on until the 2016 elections to present the face of LibDem morality. I am also sure that he would have checked with Clegg and/or Cameron before releasing the memo. That’s why there is no LibDem disciplinary action, imho.
Carmichael seems very sure that his 14 years of good work are enough for him to weather this storm, he needs to put it to the test and allow his constituents the chance to re-elect him if they are so impressed with him, anything less is cowardice
I liked the questioner’s prodding on the cost of the inquiry. Particularly the line “even if it cost £1,400, it’s still too much”. Indeed. It needn’t have cost a penny if the lying snake had just come clean in the first place.
Whatever the cost, one pound or one million pounds, he should be made to pay every penny of it from his own pocket.
Oh, and it goes without say, he should be out on his ear.
That BBC interviewer had better watch out. How dare he ask difficult questions!
Good questions and Carmichael makes the noose even tighter with his continued refusal to accept he deceived his constituents.
The House of Commons enquiry will see him off and it will also further expose the MSM as a wagon circling mob around a failed Unionist.
The LibDems were already in trouble but they will become the Dodos of Holyrood next year. I wonder how many more people have joined the SNP since Friday?
If Mr Carmichael feels that he deserves a second chance, then fine. He should ask the good people of Orkney and Shetland. Resign immediately, stand for re-election, and let the people decide.
Weak
Let the voters give him a second chance.
Great accent.
NOT GUILTY due to his apparent limited mental function.
Florida holiday cancelled and it was us cybernats what done it.
Mundell reflects on his ‘victory’
How many ice creams do these two get through in a campaign?
link to archive.is
Carmichael; Mundell; and Murray! Their best, accidental heroes, funny old world init!
Four thoughts spring to mind regards Carmichael:
– I am above the law
– Give them cake
– Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive
– Frankly Scarlet, I couldn’t give a damn
If Alistair Carmichael refuses to go quietly, we could see the first unionist party extinction event in 2016. The LibDems will be the first to go, but others will follow.
His response as to why he did not come clean in the first place is just pathetic. None of the rest is comparable, though it is all bad.
Caron Lindsay is defending him on the libdem voice website in the most sickening manner. They claim to welcome ‘all views’ but strangely multiple comments are vanishing in moderation if they don’t suit their obvious agenda of trying to make it appear that there is a 50/50 between those who want him to go and those who don’t.
And fine,it’s their website,do what you want with it Caron but just stop the Utter pretence that as long as comments are polite and a valid email is provided you will allow them because clearly that’s not the case. Libdem voice are manipulating debates to their own agenda. No surprise there.
How long can Carmichael brass this out? I am beginning to think he really will just roll on for five years disgracing the good people of Orkney and shetland
Well done that BBC Reporter! Not often I say that.
Carmichael is actually criticising the SNP!The SNP candidate, Danus Skene only lost by 817 votes, I think.
Carmichael has to go! There are petitions, doing the round, asking for Carmichaels resignation. Find one and sign please.
What does his 14 years as an MP for Orkney and Shetland got to do with him being a liar , Carmichael it’s your honesty and integrity that’s now in tatters ..How can you possibly stay in such a high profile political position and expect either your constituents or any other members of the public to ever believe you again ..
Carmichael this just proves that not only do the Scottish Lib-Dems through their Leader Willie Rennie , have no conscience ,but you don’t have one either …If this were an MP from this SNP , you and Rennie would be shouting from the roof tops for his or her head …Hypocrites the both of you …If you though things were bad for you in the GE , just wait till the SE next year ….
Not so long ago this Chump would have been put in the middle of the town square in stocks and the gathered public would have chucked rotten fruit at him
At the very least
All I can say is if he doesn’t go the SNP could perhaps refuse to recognise him as an MP and completely ignore him as the representative for the constituency until another is chosen, or if they have to refer to him just describe him as “The Lib Dem Liar” no name
On a personal note He’s a lying Bastirt
So his team told the fraud that it was in the public interest to leak it, he says didn’t read it and told them to leak it anyway.
Is that all takes for these dudes, “its in the public interest boss” Ok get it out there to the Torygraph, BBC etc who then go apeshit on Sturgeon, accusing her of publicly lying to the whole of the UK about locking out the Conservative’s and in fact supporting a tory teamGB.
BBC vote SLabour Scotland certainly read it
link to youtube.com
he is simply not concerned with the damage his leak caused.
he let the lie run.
he could and should have corrected it before the election so voters could judge for themselves.
which is after all the whole point of elections, and democracy.
he could have stepped down as a candidate stating personal reasons.
now he refuses to give voters that chance to judge him.
the smear against the snp continues, there is no outcry from the MSM.
we all know that if the snp did much, much, less than the same thing, there would be!
“I am entitled…” Yep pretty much sums up your attitude Mr Carmichael.
Hat off to interviewer – can he do all BBC Scotland political interviews please?
After being caught in bed with his lover, the errant husband cried out to his wife “Dont divorce me darling..mind I gave you a fried breakfast every Sunday!”
Meanwhile, over at PQ we were discussing Andy Pandy, Eurovision, the interminable Labour leader contest, weather travel sport, more sport – oh look over there a used car scrapyard… Alistair who?
Loving the north of Scotland accents! Brilliant. Have to admit this guy is world class at dodging the bullets. Nae danger will this trougher resign.
With all this focus on Carmichael let us not forget the possible involvement of David Mundell – has anyone asked him what he knew about the leaked memo? Mundell appears to be a bit of a lightweight and a weak character – a person likely to fall over under the slightest of pressure. Well, let’s put it to the test and heap a wee bit of pressure on Mundell also.
Whilst he’s listing what he’s done for his constituents. It’s probably also because of him that the people of Orkney don’t have an interconnector to the mainland, meaning that our potential renewables advantage is being squandered. Despite have the world leading research centre on wave and tidal renewables based there.
Dr Jim says:
25 May, 2015 at 12:01 pm
Not so long ago this Chump would have been put in the middle of the town square in stocks and the gathered public would have chucked rotten fruit at him
At the very least
I would have preferred to see him tarred and feathered and cast adrift on a Shetland longboat.
Carmichael must have called in a favour to get the enquiry result delayed so it wouldn’t affect his general election chances so the idea that he would do the decent thing and resign is a non starter. The Orkney and Shetland Islanders only opportunity for satisfaction is next year when they vote for their MSPs, wonder if Tavish and Liam will still be 100% behind him if they’re not returned to parliament.
Unbelievable !
This really defies belief. Is this man for real ? Absolutely no integrity or honour. This behaviour truly defines him and his party. I feel sorry for the people of Orkney and Shetland , the shame of having such a ‘dishonourable’ person representing them .
The double standards of him and his party is sickening.
I feel physically sick. Is this happening ? Somebody pinch me , surely this is a nightmare.
I truly despair at the corruption of it all and feel utter contempt for this oaf masquerading as a public servant. This is truly a self serving politician who serves not his constituents but himself.
More DemoRAT than Democrat.
Carmichael is beginning to tell lies on top of lies, it will not be long before he starts getting called Pinocchio.
The longer he stays put, there will be a point he can’t tell fact from fiction. If we’re lucky, he may even spontaneous combust if the heat is turned up high enough.
£1.4 million did seem a bit excessive, great question by the interviewer saying £1400 was too much though.
People – especially in here – understand what ‘Hothersall-esque’ means.
After it’s been used a few times we can drop the hyphen and that’s it, installed as a new word. Duncan must be so chuffed – very very few writers ever have their names used to signify a particular style or attitude. ‘Orwellian’, ‘Swiftian’, ‘Joycean’…
Just a bit of a shame that his name has become synonymous with slithery hair-splitting and delusional bawbaggery. So it goes…
Carmichaels fingers will have to be wrenched from the handrail of the gravy train that is Westminster.
The call of trough is strong with this one.
Springtime for Alistair and Germany
Orkney Radio
GUILTY.
Auld Rock
Did he actually say he secured a tug boat for Shetland??
What a pathetic defence. Lying toerag. He is now a joke figure – maybe best he stays (apart from the dosh he earns).
Big kebab.
Thoughts floating around, bouncing off the inner walls of Carmichaels vacuous head,
‘I know, I will just get David Cameron to turn off the internet, that should work.’
Carmichael still trying to wheedle his way out of this? And Willie Rennie still supporting him by stating that he deserves a second chance!
”It is clear to me that recent events are an aberration. As a liberal I believe that people deserve a second chance. I hope fair-minded people would agree that Alistair Carmichael should be given that second chance.”
Willie Rennie is an absolute disgrace. How many times has he called for someone to resign, on a much ‘lesser’ charge? On numerous occasions!
He also absolutely bullied and hounded Kenny MacAskill, day in day out and with relish, especially in relation to his attempts to abolish the Corroboration Law (Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill) stating that ”the way Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill has handled attempts to abolish the centuries old legal safeguard is “crackers.”
MacAskill was ‘crackers’ and should resign for pointing out that Scotland is the only country in the civilised world (other than the Netherlands) that utilises the centuries old archaic Law that has been blamed for low conviction rates in rape and domestic violence cases.
Then when figures relating to sexual abuse and rape of children in Scotland were released recently, sex offences have doubled in the last four years / 350 children being raped every year, he had the audacity to demand that the SNP formulate ‘an urgent plan’ to deal with it. What?! One that will no doubt have to include individuals having the ability to see through walls and closed doors until such time that the Corroboration Law is abolished.
It’s thanks to people like Willie Rennie, and his Union cronies who ganged together (again) and agreed on a secret strategy to block the abolition of the Law (Telegraph 26/02/2014), that Scotland continues to be a veritable haven for paedophiles.
I ask myself if many of the decisions that are being made in Holyrood are based on no more than point scoring with no consideration being given to the people that they are being paid to represent such as vulnerable children.
Thousands of children are being abused in Scotland every year. No justice for them due to the Corroboration Law. No second chance for them.
Willie Rennie must think that we are all ‘crackers’ putting up with him and his lying cohorts. When Alex Salmond was standing down as First Minister, Rennie very publicly and nastily urged Alex to “take Kenny MacAskill with him (you) when you go”. I’m urging the ‘aberrational’ Carmichael to take Rennie with him when he goes.
“Did he actually say he secured a tug boat for Shetland??”
Maybe someone threw a rope from a tug-boat over him thinking he was a floatation device of some sort. 😀
Going into the Holyrood elections next year, it’s better tactically if he doesn’t have the good grace to step down. Lib-Dems credibility is shot.
What a rogue he is. Starts interview with, he didn’t read what was in the leak and then ends interview with, he’s not like that Woolas character he condemned in the Shetland Times because Woolas made stuff up to smear his opponents.
The fraud says he was acting in the public interest with his leak but why then apologise and say he’d quit if still a UK.gov minister?
Oh yeah, he was caught.
It’s not the leak that is the problem.
Its the fact that he denied any knowledge of it.
It would have been better if he had admitted right away that he gave permission. I reckon he would still have got elected had he done that.
It’s not the leak that is the problem.
Its the fact that he denied any knowledge of it.
It would have been better if he had admitted right away that he gave permission. I reckon he would still have got elected had he done that.
He is still implying that it may be true. At 5.17:
“The First Minister and the French Ambassador have both said that that was not part of the conversation and we have to accept that as being the truth. But the fact of the matter is, the information that came to me I had no reason to doubt.”
aah …. he didn’t admit to the leak as there was an on-going investigation and he didn’t want to disrupt it’s process. No doubt fingers crossed, as with other leak investigations, that no evidence would be found. Thankfully there was a Bank Holiday weekend for him to manipulate his ‘apology letter’ – great for burying ‘bad news’ – that’s going well?
I’m torn between wanting him to resign (but that would be the decent thing) and wanting him to stay on for the effect his busted flush will have in Westminster and 2016.
[…] Twisting in the wind […]
Fib dems still think its better to have a liar than the SNP!
A lyin’ schemin’ bastert.
Interestingly enough, and i think it applies here, is that the historian, Tom Devine referred to the Labour party recently as being a nut that had been ‘hollowed out’ previously, hence its catastrophic demise.
So on one hand keep Carmichael as the doubloon on the mast, as an icon of another hollowed out lot and at every opportunity for an interview, let the interviewer refer to him as the liar who tried to smear the FM.
Unless of course, his constituents act collectively to boot him out by whatever means.
And lastly, can we please have that man do all the interviewing on the telly?
@annie
Tavish Scott and Liam McArthur seem to be strangely very quiet on the subject. Certainly not coming out quickly to back their MP colleague.
I wonder why?
Luigi says:
“let us not forget the possible involvement of David Mundell”
Aye, Luigi, and the other question is where is Euan Roddin and how did he manage to ‘mishear’ the conversation between the French ambassador and the FM? Was his report doctored? Who did the doctoring?
I still can’t quite believe that he thought this was a good idea at any point in the process be it conception, execution or subsequent attempts to deflect the truth.
What on earth was he thinking?
Is this lying toad not also an elder of the Kirk? and if true what are the Session going to do about it.
So Carmichael has been the Orkney & Shetland representative for 14 years?
Big deal.
Robert Mugabe has been President of Zimbabwe for 28 years…but that doesn’t mean it’s right.
But if that’s a bit too far fetched for some, how about Chris Huhne? Now here’s a bloke that spent 14 years as an MEP then MP.
Remind me again, why did Chris Huhne…a Liberal Democrat MP…why did he resign? Something to do with his plea of “guilty” to perverting the course of justice…or put another way…dishonesty.
Are the Lib-Dems re-branding per-chance to the ‘Holier than Thou’ party?
Call me Dave,
That was funny.
“his party are on the verge of becoming the second largest in Scotland”.
Well they already are at Westminster, jointly with the other two. Time to crack out the champers, wot?
Liz S,
I should be very careful who you compare to any sort of rat here. Don’t want to upset the boss!
Luigi@12.11
Alex Salmond has already accused Mundell of collusion. It’s in the Courier.
“I’ve told you the first I became aware of this, and this is already on the public record, was when I received a phone call on Friday afternoon from a journalist making me aware of it.” – Alistair Carmichael, Channel 4 News, 5 April 2015.
That was a lie then & he’s lying again today. And his second lie also contradicts his first one.
A wee reminder for Alistair …
link to gov.uk
Secretary of State for Scotland – Responsibilities
The main role of the Scottish Secretary is to promote and protect the devolution settlement.
Other responsibilities include promoting partnership between the UK government and the Scottish government, and relations between the 2 Parliaments.
The SNP now control the Scottish Select Affairs Committee.
Will Carmichael deign to be submitted to their scrutiny over this or wil this be another Scottish committee his higness the duke of Orkney and Shetland refuses to appear in front of?
Willie Rennie has described the liar Carmichaels behaviour as an aberration – (mental irregularity or disorder especially of a MINOR! or TEMPORARY! nature, lapse from a sound mental state)
There are a variety of dictionary definitions for “Aberration”. Perhaps Willie has used the word on the basis of the one he best recognizes?
He Did it again,
1st when he read the memo, that was a report second hand, of a conversation between the First Minister and the French Ambassador, it stated ” may lost something in the translation, IE it may not be correct? He Knew it was suspect!so why is he saying now that he believed it! how on earth can you believe a report that has as an ending “I think this might be wrong”!
2nd NO inquiry was ongoing when both parties repudiated the claim, he continued to make the claim and also accuse the French ambassador of being a liar, let’s make no mistake that’s what he did. it was later that the inquiry was called!
Elected? Liar and he must go, and Mundell is involved too.
We still haven’t got to the bottom of why a civil servant appears to have produced a minute containing complete fabrications.
Carmichael will have to answer to this before Joanna Cherry, QC, MP for Edinburgh West, in the Scottish Affairs Select Committee which the SNP now control.
@R6Pilot
““His Staff” thought it was of public interest ….so, that’ll be Mundell then ?”
” Look after me or I’ll take Mundell with me.” subtext aimed Cameron?
Discredited and shame faced MP defiantly squirms and says locals love him for all the good he’s done / must include the lying and smearing he did on their behalf and hey it was only a Scots Nat he was smearing anyway – no genuine humility at all ?
“One mans Weasel is another mans Rt Hon MP in Scotland”
Will be disappointed if locals do not out this political Scoundrel.
Its the total lack of candor / gen contrition.
He keeps saying, “The leak inquiry had already started”, so he couldn’t own up!!
What utter nonsense. He purposefully let it all drag on for five weeks, as he was simply a scared small child hiding under his bedclothes. Pathetic.
If he expects people to swallow that then he is deranged (as well as everything else!).
Flower of Scotland says:
25 May, 2015 at 12:41 pm
Luigi@12.11
Alex Salmond has already accused Mundell of collusion. It’s in the Courier.
If Carmichael and Mundell (and their side-kicks) are hauled before the Scottish Affairs Select Committee, we should take bets as to which of these two jelly babies will crack first. My money’s on Mundell.
@Weechid
“Reminds a bit of the Borders accent.”
I once mistook an Orcadian for a Borderer, she was unsurprised at that.
He didn’t even ask to see the memo before sanctioning its leak? So he’s now an INCOMPETENT liar??
Carmichael doubts the veracity of “any Scottish Nationalist”,so has now resorted to wrapping his corpulent figure in the butcher’s apron in a last throw of the dice to save his neck.
The MSM silence on Mundell’s possible/likely involvement in the smeargate affair is deafening.
Then, on top of all that shite he goes and tries to impugn the SNP!
I feel utter contempt for him and his rotten ILLIBERAL party.
@Call me Dave
“Carmichael; Mundell; and Murray! Their best, accidental heroes, funny old world init!”
‘Accidental’? Maybe.
If the liar thinks he has public support, let him put it to the vote! He won;’t of course so it is up to us to force him out.
OMG, this guy actually believes that the mistake he made was not stopping the leak!
The fact that you have represented your constituency for many years, I’m afraid, is irrelevant, the fact that you lied and attempted to discredit the First Minister of Scotland, is relevant. Do you think that this campaign for you to resign is simply going to go away because you want to get back to your job, you are dillusional, it will not.
It would be better to fall on your sword, than drag this out!!!
Yoda says:
25 May, 2015 at 12:31 pm
It’s not the leak that is the problem.
Its the fact that he denied any knowledge of it.
The leak was also a lie yoda, as you britnats know full well. Even the lying slob says in his letter of oh fcuk I’ve been caught, the details were “incorrect.”
Read it yourself oh wise one, Carmicheal says its a serious breach of protocol and the details of his leak were a lie.
Fair enough the shyster could be lying about his own lies though. But the vote Tory UKOK creep show still went BBC mental with it all anyway.
Torygraph reprobates didn’t even bother to get Sturgeon to comment, the desperation to monster her was that great.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Alistair,for the sake of your family, your party and your constituents please do the honourable thing and take the chiltern hundreds.
At least you will depart with a modicum of dignity.
I can assure you that we will not cease to seek your departure as your behaviour against the person and office of our First Minister is completely unacceptable.
I don’t even get what he is trying to claim when he says he couldn’t tell the truth because the enquiry had already started. Even if that was true, what is the problem. If he had told the truth, does that mean the enquiry could not proceed on any other issues which might arise? I don’t see how. Its remit was to find out how the leak happened and that part of it would have been very short and simple if he had admitted his part in it, and that of his SPAD. It could still have investigated the civil service role and any other matters (though the summary report which is available does not suggest anything else was all that thorough anyway)
What is he trying to get us to believe? I really don’t get the relevance of his claim.
Say I stole something. The theft has been reported to the police and they are investigating. According to him, I am duty bound not to tell them about my responsibility because…er….what?
It is absurd.
As I understand it an early admission is likely to lead to a reduced sentence because it saves public resources and is of benefit to all. You may not agree with that, but I think it is pretty standard, and not just in this country. OK, that is criminal, but does the same principle not apply. What on earth is his case? Can anyone explain?
From the UK Gov Report:
“Following the leak of a Scotland Office memorandum that formed the basis of a story in the Daily Telegraph on 3 April, the Cabinet Secretary instigated a Cabinet Office-led leak inquiry to establish how this memo came to be written and how it got into the public domain.”
Thereby public monies were allocated for the purpose.
Alistair Carmichael knew very well prior to the enquiry how it got into the public domain – he authorised it – and yet he now says that he preferred to withhold this information from the inquiry even knowing this was their stated aim, and allow public money to be wasted.
Is this not misconduct while holding his position?
So, telling the truth would have somehow hampered the investigation?
Is there anyone out there gullible enough to believe he said ‘publish and be damned’ to a memo of that potentiality without reading it first?
There is, in all probability, a hidden subtext to Carmichael’s behaviour, i.e not resigning.
He will be receiving instruction from Number 10, perhaps not directly, but the trail will lead there.
Here is a plausible scenario.
The EU in/out referendum results in an Out vote in England and an In (stay) in Scotland.
Scotland then says to Westminster, “we are off, goodbye.”
England says, “Cheerio, we are out of the EU and we are taking Orkney and Shetland with us. We have a mandate, we have our man in place, voted by the electorate of the Northern Isles. He’s a Unionist, so he and his constituency are coming with us (England).”
Far fetched?
Well so is a lying, scheming, dishonest ex Mininster who refuses to resign when blatantly caught out.
Carmichael is staying on because he’s been ordered to stay on by Number 10.
And this course of action probably proves beyond doubt that Carmichael was either a Tory cuckoo in the LibDem nest, or that the LibDems in Scotland have always been nothing more that a front to secure Tory control.
Unless he’s even more sleekit than he seems I’d take it as read that he didn’t, in fact, read the memo concerned. If he’d done so then he’d have seen the bit at the end that cast doubt on it. It’s a bit like how, allegedly, some defense lawyers prefer their clients to withhold information that would indicate they were actually guilty. In addition once the full text of the memo was published it’d be game over as far as that ploy was concerned.
I very much doubt there was any high level involvement with the conservative party as for it to have any chance of success the French would have to maintain a diplomatic silence rather than jumping straight in with a flat denial. Something the might have done if Osborne hadn’t just announced budgeting £1 million for an Agincourt commemoration. I like to tell myself their not that fucking stupid, though I could be wrong.
End of the day given that this might have resulted in a major international incident given the initial portrayal as this being the result of espionage in the French Embassy along side the portrayal of Sturgeon as a niave wee lassie and conversation being akin to gossiping. If anything not only might Carmichael have been forced to resign but he might also have been suspended due to his abuse of his position for party political reasons.
If anything the way forward, should he not just resign, is he be suspended for the 21 days or more needed to allow a recall poll to take place. It’d then be up to his constituents to decide whether to force a new election or not.
@X-Sticks,12.38
Euan Roddin, the SPAD, contacted the Telegraph. It was a civil servant, probably Chris Flett, who reported on the conversation he had had with the French Consul-General. This conversation covered the meeting of the French Ambassador and the First Minister which the French Consul-General had attended.
@ orri
Lallands Peat Worrier had already established that the recall legislation is not in force. That route is closed.
“But the fact of the matter is, the information that came to me I had no reason to doubt.”
He just can’t stop himself.
Didn’t the author of the memo even say that he/she believed that something may have been ‘lost in translation’.
Surely that sentence alone gives ‘reason to doubt’.
He just keeps digging.
Yoda
The leak is a problem because it was purdah and a Spad used a restricted government document for political ends. It was a clear breach of election rules.
The document itself is not a big issue. The author himself said that the two lines that were the point of controversy (the rest of the document not being discussed at all) was unlikely to be true.
The Telegraph was unprofessional and sloppy. Normal practice would have been to check with the Ambassador’s office, French Consul and Nicola. They didn’t do that. They wanted a stitch up as quickly as possible because they thought the leak damaged Miliband (which it may have but I am not sure they cared that much about what the fall out in Scotland would be).
It was an unscrupulous Malcolm Tuckeresque act.
@Giving Goose
“We have a mandate, we have our man in place, voted by the electorate of the Northern Isles. He’s a Unionist, so he and his constituency are coming with us (England).”
Far fetched?”
Just a bit, but not impossible.
However, even if that happened, the Northern Isles would still be legally an enclave of the UK on Scotland’s continental shelf and would not be entitled to maritime resources outside the territorial zone (12 nautical miles).
Sunniva, Edinburgh South West. Pedantic me?
How this memo came to be written?
I don’t believe we have seen any explanation for this element of the inquiry.
First Minister meets French Consul a General.
One week later French Ambassador relates conversation by phone call to Civil Servant in Scottish Office neither of whom seemed to be present at first meeting. Conversation conducted in English.
Memo contained phrase lost in translation!
Weeks later memo leaked through Scottish Office SPAD to Newspaper with permission from SOS Carmichael, Deputy Mundell shared Office.
Who wrote original memo? Was memo altered or added to?
Who knew what? When?
Still many aspects of this being buried and obscured.
Carmichael position untenable, Mundell and Rennie and Clegg must explain their input and timings of conversations and decisions taken.
‘The Carmichael’
Judge: Mr. Carcrash you have been found guilty of perjury. Do you have anything to say?
Al Carcrash: I plead ‘The Carmichael’.
Judge: What, pray tell me, is ‘The Carmichael’?
Al Carcrash: I thought you would know your honour. It’s like the 5th amendment in America. Except in this case instead of saying nothing, you have already lied and been found out.
Judge: Yes, it’s called perjury.
Al Carcrash: But in the case of ‘The Carmichael’ your honour, my previous good deeds cancel out my lying and I get to walk free.
Judge: I think we can safely add contempt of court to the perjury. 1 year 4 months at her Majesty’s pleasure. Next.
I am beginning to think that Carmichael cares less about the people he represents and more about the money he can get.
PS actually an ‘exclave’ of the UK, but an ‘enclave’ to Scotland.
It’s OK, though, Mr Carmichael is entitled to lie to his constituents because he has secured them a better rate of fuel duty and a coastguard tug.
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/…/video-people-voted…/
So Willie Rennie thinks Carmickie deserves a second chance, he has no arguments and so has to resort to pleading.
The only people that can give Carmickie a 2nd chance are the constituents of Orkney & Shetland. He must resign his seat and stand in a by-election and by doing so allow them to make their own judgement.
Page not found Ronnie
One of the telling things about this tawdry dirty tricks attempt by liar Carmichael is the way the media has stood in silence when it should have been acting in the public interest and calling liar Carmichael to resign immediately.
So it is refreshing to hear the Radio Orkney doing his job in a way that puts the mainland MSM to utter shame.
As for liar Carmichael’s dismissal of Danus Skene’s call for him to resign as a “he would say that wouldn’t he” I’m afraid that doesn’t wash because I for one would be calling for a resignation if my local SNP has done the same thing and continued to lie about it.
This is not about party political advantage but is all about rooting out gross misconduct by an MP who tried to influence the outcome of a UKGE by smearing his opponent and then blatantly lying about being responsible for the smear attempt after the allegations had been exposed to be completely untrue.
I’m pretty certain that liar Varmichael would have been dismissed by now if had worked for a private or Local Government, or NHS employer and done what he did.
In this case it seems the his employers the voters cannot dismiss him, and instead we have the ridiculous situation where he can sit tight whilst gesticulating with two fingers to the electorate in response to their calls for him to resign.
Wait a minute, if it was in the public interest to release the document, why didn’t they release it straight away?
Why did they wait until during the general election campaign?
The LibDems must explain the delay in withholding information, that they themselves say was ‘in the public interest’ to be released.
We all know the answers to these questions, but the one thing seems to be happening with this story is the more the LibDems comment on it and especially AC the more of a hole they keep digging.
So c’mon Wullie, c’mon Alistair c’mon BBC James Cook, C’mon MSM, tell us why the document wasn’t released to the public when it first came into the Scottish Office, if as Alistair and his staff maintain, the contents of that document indicated that it was in the public interest to do so.
Or the LibDems will stand accused of being serial liars
There is still a huge problem with Disreporting Jocklands reporting of this. Going by their coverage this lunchtime. They cant decide which way to fall it seems.
They are caught between defending the Union to its slow death and its long time support of the Labour Party who if anybody was damaged by this blatant smear and abuse of power it was them.
Lanarkist says:
25 May, 2015 at 1:23 pm
How this memo came to be written?
I don’t believe we have seen any explanation for this element of the inquiry.
First Minister meets French Consul a General.
One week later French Ambassador relates conversation by phone call to Civil Servant in Scottish Office neither of whom seemed to be present at first meeting. Conversation conducted in English.
Memo contained phrase lost in translation!
Weeks later memo leaked through Scottish Office SPAD to Newspaper with permission from SOS Carmichael, Deputy Mundell shared Office.
Who wrote original memo? Was memo altered or added to?
Who knew what? When?
Still many aspects of this being buried and obscured.
Carmichael position untenable, Mundell and Rennie and Clegg must explain their input and timings of conversations and decisions taken.
It is a measure of how little we are served by our press and politicians that the facts are in so much doubt, even the simple ones. I don’t think your account is quite right, though I could be wrong
The first minister met with the Ambassador and the consul general was present
The consul general has said that he advised the SO of the Ambassador’s programme and since he used the word “told” I think that was a phone call.
The consul general then made two reports of the content of the meeting, one for Paris and one for Whitehall. He does not specify whether those were written reports or verbal: but he does say that the content under dispute “is not” in his report. That suggests to me that the report is written not verbal, though that may not be correct. It is more in line with what I would expect, however, for just the reason that this controversy highlights. Civil Servants and diplomats do like to have proper records to refer to, so that what actually happened can be verified if their minister or ambassador is embarrassed. It is possible the report for Paris is written and the other verbal, but why?
The memo states that it is an account of a confidential telephone conversation. If it is part of some protocol whereby meetings are reported to Whitehall why would it be confidential within the civil service; rather than for circulation to the same restricted group that is always copied in to an official report? Why is it necessary to mention it is confidential over and above the norm?
It is claimed it was written by a civil servant in the SO. That pretty much excludes Mr Roddin, because he is not a civil servant. So the next question is how did he get it? The memo stresses it is confidential, which is odd, as noted above. Why then, would it be passed to a SPAD with no civil service role and who is a junior political appointee. There is no addressee on the Memo, nor any list of who it went to. It may be that AC has given instructions that all official correspondence goes to his SPAD first: but this is noted to be specially secret so it should not have gone to anyone but the Minister, IMO. SPADs are not bound by civil service rules as civil servants are: their purpose is political and the CS knows that: so why open themselves in this way to potential embarrassment?
I think that we are not being told the simplest facts which would actually explain what happened. And that is not an accident
Guilty! Out!
It was an unscrupulous Malcolm Tuckeresque act.
It was an incredibly successful one though H&S. For Cameron and the Cons it was a triumph of attack campaigning. It didn’t just damage Sturgeon in England, it seriously harmed Milliband who couldn’t react to it, it dovetailed perfectly with the Cons Scottish/Salmond are pickpocketing thieves middle England bigotry, it gave BBC etc all kinds of attack headlines and even though Scotland ignored it all completely, Carmichael bought himself a shit load of leverage for himself.
If Carmichael goes, he’ll take the whole UKOK ConDem freak show with him for decades and that’s power.
[…] We thought you should hear this extraordinary interview with Alistair Carmicheal from BBC Radio Orkney this morning. […]
@Ronnie & @Chic
Correct link is:
link to pressandjournal.co.uk
“Look, I understand that a number of people are disappointed with this, but I’ll tell you, I’ve also had a great deal of support from local people who have been quite struck by the way in which the SNP have saught to handle this.
They [his supporters] have made comparisons between the way they [the SNP] are treating me with the way in which they have treated some of their own people in the past.
And they’ve been quite keen to say, ‘No, we understand you’ve made a mistake, we realize you’ve apologized for it and we want you to stay.'”
Absolute weasel-words from Carmichael.
‘Ave hud hunners of Orkadians and Shetlanders tellin us this wee issue is being exaggerated tae fuck, so it is, by the basturdin SNP that ur just oot tae get us… and dinnae furget that mob goin’ after some ae thur own lot, by the way. An uv said sorry an everythin, an aw the locals want us tae stay oan as thur MP coz a work so hard, an they luv us so they do. If thon basturdin SNP wid just shut it everythin wid be just fine, so it wid.’
Love the accents. We had two Orcadians at work – lovely guys. I occasionally had to translate for English staff.
Is anybody else stating to get the feeling that the media are now trying to kill this story off? BBC lunchtime news, no mention on the ‘main’ news and it was a brief item on the second to last spot!
@ Jim Mitchell
I think there is no doubt they are doing that. They are very used to deciding for us what is news and what is not. They set the agenda. But not so much now as they once did, fortunately
So he’s basically saying the people of Orkney and Shetland don’t give a shit they have a lying bastard to represent them so long as they get a wee perk of slightly cheaper fuel from Westminster.
He doesn’t have a very high regard for the integrity of his constituents,does he.
This man is bringing unionist politics into a new low of disrepute if that is possible.
Regarding not seeing the document for himself, either he is a lazy incompetent, or his knickers are ablaze.
Either way he is damned.
For non-Tweeterers – Rev put up this link to Bateman’s latest. Superb:
link to derekbateman.co.uk
Alex Salmond says ”We may get the abolition of the Scottish Office which I called for a couple of weeks ago. We may get it faster’.
Hope you’re right Alex.
link to pressandjournal.co.uk
I hope he stays as mp , it will only help destroy libdems in Scotland as a continual reminder of their lack of morals or honesty , some SE2016 it will be a big stick to beat them with , if they cant see that coming hell mend them .
Carmichael actually stated in that interview in his own words “I see no reason why this should affect the work I do for the people of Orkney & Shetland”
The proven liar didnt just simply make a small forgetful mistake this has went on for weeks…………only recently did the proven liar admit to it.
Ok everyone lets just lie our way through life thats all ok as Carmichaels all for lying according to the man himself!!
No wonder folk dont trust politcians, totally in it for number one and no one else! deary me.
Is that the LibDem definition of success? 14 years an MP and only caught lying once?
Far from 14 years service coming to his defence, there are now 14 years of public office undermined by a lying MP which now require to be scrutinised for integrity and honesty.
Its the lying we dont excuse Mr Carmichael, not the getting caught.
The longer he stays in office the more people move to “YES”.
Simple as that. Let him keep his salary. It’s only helping the cause and case for independence.
Ask yourselves this tho. If SNP hadn’t sent 56 MPs to Westminster do ya think we’d be hearing about this inquiry?
It is utterly ridiculous that he’s still there.
He should be kicked out and forced to pay back the £1.4m his lie cost the taxpayer.
There are several strands to diverting attention from the real issue to lesser issues.
The core of the real issue: the French Ambassador and the FM did not discuss wanting Cameron to remain in government.
Carmichael authorised the release of a memo saying this did happen, but didn’t admit he was the source of that, in fact lied about being the source.
The Telegraph published this without checking with the French Ambassador or FM.
Diversions are about : leaking the memo, he has paid penance by now admitting being the source of the memo, its not fair to punish him more, the SNP are being bad trying to punish him more, it is about the SNP.
An alternative view from Craig Murray.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
There we have it it’s the rotten to the core Westminster establishment to blame for turning decent folk like Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Alistair Darling and Danny Alexander and now Alistair Carbunkle into lying, smearing, greed obsessed megalomaniacs
RS lunchtime news, right at the start, mentioned ‘multiple petitions’ calling for Carmichael to stand down. Just the briefest of mentions, but this is working, so let’s keep it going. 🙂
We will have this pathetic liar’s scalp sooner or later. (Remember the constipated mathematician? He worked it out with a pencil…)
Currently at 11,862, and that’s just the Change.org one, here:
link to change.org?
@Fiona
The recall of MP’s was modified but is enacted.
link to services.parliament.uk
Following agreement by both Houses on the text of the Bill it received Royal Assent on 26 March. The Bill is now an Act of Parliament (law).
…
The Bill provides for a recall petition to be triggered if a Member is sentenced to a prison term or is suspended from the House for at least 21 sitting days. If either occurred, the Speaker would give notice to a petition officer, who in turn would give notice to parliamentary electors in the constituency.
A petition would then be open for signing for eight weeks. If at the end of that period at least 10 per cent of eligible electors had signed the petition, the seat would be declared vacant and a by-election would follow. The Member who was recalled could stand in the by-election.
The Bill also introduces rules on the conduct of the recall petition, including campaign spending limits for those supporting and opposing recalling the Member.
Hence the 21 days I mentioned.
However there seems no limit to how short a spell in clink can trigger this. Given the memo was labeled confidential there remains the question of whether ministers of state are subject to the Official Secrets Act and whether it was in Charmicheal’s remit to authorise it being broken.
It is still looking very much like someone needs to take the safeguard of lodging a complaint at the Court of Session tomorrow according to the Representation of the People Act 1983. Carmichael’s lies on the public record can be shown legally to not only have influenced GE2015 generally but by lying through his teeth on public record about the scope of his involvement, specifically denying he hadn’t heard about the affair until a journalist phoned him, he made false statements about his own character, in the words of the statute, ‘for the purpose of affecting the return of any candidate at the election’, namely himself! If he clings onto his shoogly hook and this gets lost in Westmister ethics committees and those who promised to have his back keep to that, this may be the last window the people have to hold him legally to account!
I actually tried to start a Kickstarter project for legal fees to lodge the complaint myself on Saturday, announcing the project started on a couple of sites. Any money raised before tues, the earliest I could lodge the complaint, if the giant Gummy Bear did the unlikely right thing and stepped down, I would have donated to the costs of a by election. Unfortunately they came back to me looking for verification of ID. I have fairly debilitating Frontal Lobe Epilepsy so can’t drive and other forms of travel lower my seizure threshold, so no drivers licence or passport! I tried all day Saturday to find an alternative but they wouldn’t accept any of my banking stuff or disability stuff, had to cancel the project Saturday eve! Anyone who wants to take on the baton, I still have all the info…
It is probably no small coincidence that the timing of the Recall of MPs Act was entered onto the statute books on the 30th March, ironically championed by the Lib Dems, but not enacted into law until ministers see the timetable as fit! Someone or someone’s knew this was coming, you can be sure of that!
really bad that he is pinning more blame on his staff, what a big coward. And the attitude of don’t own up now because the investigation has already started! The shame of Islay and Scotland.
The leaked memo was dated 6th March, it reported a meeting that had taken place the previous week, at the end of February.
But it wasn’t released until after 30th March, when technically Carmichael and all others were no longer MPs, or, I presume, a minister.
If as Secretary of State Carmichael considered it was indeed in the public interest, why didn’t he do so whilst still in office? Big hole in your defence there, Alistair.
The leak was Friday 3rd April when he was no longer the Secretary of State or an MP. Therefore he abuser the powers he had held when a minister purely to discredit opponents.
What an odious man ,no morals whatsoever every time he opens his mouth another lie comes out.
I see Nicola has let Eck out to play oh good 🙂
Lets get this carpet bagger and his monkeys hauled up before a committee and give them a right roasting.
Come out come out from where ever you are fluffy our Eck wants to have a word with you.
”UK Government’s fury at Alex Salmond suggestion David Mundell may have known about leaked memo.” The Courier
Alex Salmond has been branded a “hypocrite” after suggesting the Scottish Secretary knew about the leak of a memo claiming Nicola Sturgeon wanted David Cameron to win the general election.
The ex-First Minister said David Mundell, who stepped up to the Cabinet role after being a Scotland Office minister through the last Parliament, “must have seen” the document and questions how much he knew about it being passed to the Daily Telegraph.
Former Secretary of State Alistair Carmichael accepted responsibility and is under pressure to quit as an MP.
However, in his column in Monday’s Courier Mr Salmond turns his attention to the man promoted after the Liberal Democrats were ejected from office.
He writes: “In a department with so little to do he (Mr Mundell) must have seen the infamous memo. And yet when it was mysteriously leaked he said nothing at all!
“Mundell is about to be asked the age old question: ‘What did you know and when did you know it?’”
A spokesman for Mr Mundell said: “If it’s wrong to smear the First Minister then it’s wrong to smear other. Alex Salmond can’t have it both ways.
“The First Minister accepted without reservation the findings of the inquiry so why won’t he?”
At no stage has any suggestion been made that Scotland’s sole Tory MP was involved in the leak. Mr Salmond’s suggestion prompted outrage from a senior UK Government source.
The insider said: “He sailed close to the wind with EU legal advice during the referendum and that’s just one thing. He is a hypocrite and an embarrassment.”
Mr Carmichael apologised to both Ms Sturgeon and the French ambassador to the UK after a Cabinet Office investigation into the leak concluded he “could and should have stopped the sharing of the memo”, adding he “accepts responsibility for what occurred”.
The Lib Dem MP initially claimed he first heard about the document when he was called by a journalist but admitted during the investigation he was “aware of its content and agreed that my special adviser should make it public”.
Neither he nor special adviser Euan Roddin will claim the severance pay they they were entitled to after losing their Scotland Office jobs at the election.
I tend towards “don’t kick a man when he’s down”, and I think that applies to Mr. Carmichael at the moment. Not only is he down, but I think he’ll soon be out.
Craig Murray (ex diplomat, whose blog is linked to by Wings) portrays Alistair Carmichael as a basically decent and fair man who has got caught up in the corruption of Westminster, and I think this is very likely to be true.
Personally, I think he was set up. We only have his own word for it that he actually knew anything about the document before the Telegraph’s article, and it is well possible he’s been lying about that, out of some wierd convention of accountability, or some misplaced loyalty to somebody or something. His behaviour in the last few days doesn’t suggest somebody proficient in the art of cloak and dagger politics. I have no great confidence in the integrity of the enquiry report.
Who set him up?
Like most people here, I believe he should, and soon will, resign. But I do think it’s time to stop kicking him.
@Jim Mitchell
“BBC lunchtime news, no mention on the ‘main’ news and it was a brief item on the second to last spot!”
‘…And let’s go over to Lord’s where England are batting with a run-rate needed of… where our cricket correspondent…
And now, finally, over to the news where you are.’
Alan, if as you say he is a “decent and fair man” why has he not stepped down yet? He has admitted he lied you know!
pedantry point: Carmichael remained a minister even when he was not an MP. This therefore remains an act of the UK government against the Scottish Government during the course of an election.
A Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
When the sheepdog who must never at any time hurt the sheep turns bad it must be removed for the safety of the flock,the world cannot work in any other way,at least not in a democratic society.
Any one in denial over this scandal,is in a save-now-pay-later scheme,but at some level they know the truth,the wolf will return,they know what they must do.
Mundell must be complicit in this, I hope the SNP let him have it when ” Scottish ” Questions come up. I would love that wee worm to fall.
OT Podemos, socialists and other anti-austerity parties take control of Mardid and Barcelona and many other cities from the right wing PP (Oh Rajoy!… sorry) in the Spanish locals.
Madrid
‘I work hard for my constituency’.
Jeez, Dr Harold Shipman, before he went on his killing spree probably worked hard for his patients. I don’t recall him using this defence to mitigate his subsequent crimes.
Oh my goad, a go away on holiday and this shitstorm breaks out.
I did see the headlines on Saturday, managed to get an internet connection for a wee while. First thoughts were, well we all new he did it anyway. Second thoughts, well that’s him away in the big mixer, he’ll have to resign now.
Ha ha, that will be right. What a thoroughly despicable excuse for a human being. No thought for his constituents all me me me. Tells mair lies tae try and cover it and blames his staff. Dear oh dear.
Jist go Alister. If you don’t we will see the end of the libdums next year at Holyrood, as well as the end of Labour. They never learn do they.
Well done to Dave Gray, he certainly asked the questions. It was good to hear man wriggling on hook. Good stuff.
O/T kinda. Been in Ireland for last 10days, right in the middle of their referenda. One about equality and the other about lowering the age of the candidates for their presidency.
RTE radio was wonderful, they debate was well conducted. Both sides got time to express their points fairly, without constant interruptions from the interviewer.Journalism at its very best.If they waffled and strayed from the point,when they finished their answer, straight back in to make them answer what had been asked.
Ivan Yates, journalist, former politician and business man, doffs bunnet. Please come to Scotland and teach our stupid, crawling,conniving bastards that pretend that there is fair play from BBC & MSM how to be a decent, well informed, well researched journalist.
“don’t kick a man when he’s down” – after he has lied to the public and his voters, tried to smear Scotland’s First Minister and tried to affect the outcome of a General Election for his unionist friends.
Stop it, I nearly pissed my pants.
As Carmichael was a minister of state and thus part of the government he was still in post up until shuffled out when Cameron no longer had to include Lib Dems in his cabinet. He was responsible when the memo was initially leaked. He was still responsible when it’s contents were reported and when it was finally published in it’s entirety.
How on earth can Mr Carmichael remain as a MP,he’s lost his credibility,he just can’t be trusted now.
@Chic McGregor 2:48 & 2:50
There’s has been a fair bit of academic study into the way words are perceived when written down. It seems that, as long as you have the correct first and last letters and all the other letters in between are in any order, the context allows the brain to unfankle them and the reader tends not to notice.
Pretty sure that’s what happened to me with the 2:48 posting 🙂
”Crowd funding appeal to seek MP’s removal from office” Monday, May 25, 2015, at 2:24pm
Following this morning’s news that Orkney and Shetland MP Alistair Carmichael will not be standing down from his position in UK parliament, Yes Orkney are to launch a crowd funding campaign seeking Mr Carmichael’s removal from office.
Announced through the group’s facebook page, the crowd funding appeal’s goal will be to raise the £6000 needed to lodge a petition with the Court of Session.
If the money is raised Yes Orkney will lodge the petition on Wednesday.
And ..
link to shetnews.co.uk
I take it “Tavish Scott and Liam McArthur” do realise that if Alistair Carmichael does not resign, they can garentee they will lose their seats next year in the Holyrood elections.
Personel votes will not save them as Carmichael will have tarred them with the same brush, and as long as he is still in office they are dead men walking in the political sense.
cearc says
Liz S,
I should be very careful who you compare to any sort of rat here. Don’t want to upset the boss!
Me Blonde me no understand your comment.
Have a nice day anyway.
Is he an uppy or a doony?
Now that Clegg has officially stepped down from the party leadership the Lib Dem President Sal Brinton has taken over as acting leader. But since she’s not an MP Carmichael is the acting leader of the party in the Commons and as such he is going to have to lead off for his party in the debate on the Queen’s Speech.
@Jim
My usual trick is when there is a double letter, to double the letter preceding it instead. Think I catch most of them before hitting send though.
The idea that Carmichael deserves anything other than a full-on ‘kicking’ via this and other pro-indy sites is ludicrous.
It’s one thing to suggest that it’s unpleasant to kick a man when he’s down. That’s true. Point is, he’s NOT down, and hasn’t shown the slightest indication that he has any intention of leaving.
He’s got to go. ‘There Is No Alternative’. And when he has, we move on to Mundell, Rennie, Clegg, and everyone else who had anything to do with this scandal.
Now at 11,909 –
link to change.org?
Ian Brotherhood says:
25 May, 2015 at 3:30 pm
Well said. Having just wasted 1.4 million in an attempt to cover his sorry arse (and who knows how much in expenses claimed during 13 years at the WM trough), I for one do not want this liar and charlatan to receive another single penny of taxpayers money.
Here is the link to The Cabinet Office Inquiry:
link to gov.uk
A few questions for consideration:
The Memo- a Scottish Office Civil servant “produced” the memo.
Was this an electronic document? If so, the usual audit trails would reveal the identity of devices/log-ins of those accessing, reading and printing the document.
Did Carmichael access the document?
Did Mundell or any of his staff have ANY access the document?
The leak- “the investigation team searched all relevant official phone records, emails and print logs.”
What were the terms of reference and who decided what was relevant?
“Those who had access to the memo were asked to complete a questionnaire on what they did with the memo when they received it.”
What was the method transmission to recipients? E-mail, printed copy or what?
Did Carmichael access the document?
Did Mundell or any of his staff have ANY access the document?
Mr Roddin confirmed that he provided a copy of the Scotland Office memo to a Daily Telegraph journalist on 1 April 2015
Method of transmission?
Has any offence been committed by his action?
Will the full details of the investigation be made available for some form of external scrutiny to demonstrate transparency?
Lets make sure we clear everyone of these liars out of politics. Rennie can always go back to working in the circus and for fatboy fat he deserves to be rendered into making jelly babies – they do not serve or speak on my behalf , they are corrupt liars.
“Like most people here, I believe he should, and soon will, resign. But I do think it’s time to stop kicking him.”
Sturgeon meets privately with the French Ambassador early February.
Straight after April 3rd national tv election debate that sees Sturgeon poll way ahead of tory boy PM Cameron, UK.gov minister Carmichael leaks a pack of lies to assorted nutters at the Torygraph, the very next day.
Despite getting caught by £1.4 million investigation which he could have prevented by simply telling the truth, Carmichael now states publicly he didn’t even read his memo that he “released,” as the BBC Pacific Quay creep show now calls it.
Its entirely probable that tory boy Central Office ordered this monstering of Sturgeon and maybe corrupt slob will tell us, after he’s gone.
[…] listened to Alistair Carmichael’s defence in the matter of what I suppose we must grit our teeth and call #MemoGate, I am even more convinced […]
Petra @3.21 pm.
Don’t do Facebook and can’t find this on their Twitter page, so have you any other links to contribute to this crowd fund?
Would be more than happy to do so.
@liz S 3:24pm
Our revered leader has a couple of pet cable chewers (and – for future reference – an emergency kitten stowed away some place safe)
😉
@Chic McGregor 3:27pm
ah jist canna spell big wurds (an sometimes even the wee wans)
P&J Poll.
Looking good for indi ??
link to archive.is
7% for no 🙂
test
Hi Liz S – the Rev has pet rats he’s very fond of! Hence the comment about being careful who you compare to rats! 🙂
Carmichael’s not making the headlines in London because it’s news where you are …
link to youtube.com
“… Mr Salmond’s suggestion prompted outrage from a senior UK Government source.
The insider said: “He sailed close to the wind with EU legal advice during the referendum and that’s just one thing. He is a hypocrite and an embarrassment.””
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Love it! “outrage from a senior Government source… The insider said…”
A senior government insider source, eh. Really, really? And who would this be, then, Mr. Courier journalist? No name? Protecting your source?
Unless these pro-unionist ‘journalists’ start naming names just call them out as liars. If they get all uppity and ‘outraged’ then ask them for departments’ and sources’ names. If they refuse, citing something like having to protect their sources, then call them out – “Unless you do name your sources, we can surmise that you have just made them up so as you can cite your own prejudices and agenda. And you’re a liar. No? Okay then give us proof.”……
@ west wales 3:25 – um is that right cos if it is… need to get more popcorn in.
O/T
I am sure this will get the Rev Stu treatment but Prof Tomkins to advise SoSfS, FFS.
Like putting King Herod in charge of the baby farm as Bojo would say.
So now we know the NO vote and Smith was for hee-haw max.
An office that truly does need binned now after smeargate.
It has been made public that this “memo” was live in the Scottish Office for 5 weeks before release, if he was so concerned he would have gone public immediately laying out a big look at me before the GE, guardian of the truth.
To me it looks like he took advice on how long an investigation would take and released the “memo” at the point of max damage to SNP (even though that was a time of Purdah, that’s illegal), and that the investigation result wouldn’t harm him in the GE as it would be too late (that is, if he planned to lie before the GE).
ALL LOOKS CALCULATED
Liz S,
I put an answer up but forget to do the youtube link properly and others have now answered,
Here is nearly 12 mins. of the Seperats enjoying their newly refurbished surrounds.
link to youtube.com
Good. Hope he stays, it means the Lib Dem presence in Scotland is totally discredited, Rennie is tarnished too by association. It means complete annihilation for them next May, the fools.
The Libs, just like Labour and the Tories still don’t get it. It’s all over for them not because they’re too left wing/right wing or because we’re brainwashed by the Nats or because we’ve stopped listening or we don’t want bevvy at football. They’re finished because we’re all sick, sick, sick to the back teeth of lies, spin, corruption, media hostility, demonisation, smears, fake vows and other associated dupes and manipulations. I mean, a co-ordinated campaign in newspapers and TV to produce images of Jim Murphy with halos around his head? And they don’t understand why we don’t want to vote for them? Christ, gies a break.
Until they clear out the crap they won’t have a chance in Scotland. The longer Carmichael stays the better.
Jim Thomson says:
25 May, 2015 at 4:16 pm
@liz S 3:24pm
“Our revered leader has a couple of pet cable chewers (and – for future reference – an emergency kitten stowed away some place safe)”
Ooops. Many thanks for this Mr J Thomson. No offence to rats,honest, only one’s with double chins and that wear a suit. Ooops, no offence again your very Rev Campbell.
Have a nice evening Mr Thomson.
Let’s hope they remember to allow PayPal link to facebook.com
Orkney funding appeal soon
@Paula Rose 4:25
It says in Carmichael’s Wikipedia page that he is acting as leader in the Commons. Farron and Lamb aren’t doing it since it would give one of them an advantage in the leadership contest (they’re so principled and democratic these Lib Dems!).
Of the other 4 Lib Dem MPs, Carmichael as a former cabinet minister got the acting Commons leader job and in that role he spoke for his party at the re-election of John Bercow as Speaker last week.
Thank you also Mumsyhugs and Cearc for your responses.
Have a nice evening both of you.
Can’t believe anyone is trying to defend this liar.
I thought I was angry yesterday, but listening to that interview has ratcheted up my anger another few notches, the sheer arrogance and condescension of this self congratulatory pig, sounds like we should be bloody grateful for him ripping the arse out of the electorate, and taking our money!!!!
Please people, up there, do not lie down to this filth, many like me will contribute to legal action. This man cannot be allowed to set the bar for behaviour, we must DEMAND better.
I’m fuming at his tone in that interview, and I don’t care what Craig Murray has to say on the matter, or if he was in this with others etc. At this point, we have everything we need to know, to have him out.
Well done to the interviewer, BTW!
He conveniently forgets that even if it were true it was a private conversation and not the place of anyone in government or the civil service to leak it – in the public interest or not. For that alone he is surely culpable and should resign.
Regarding the costs, it was needless expenditure and this only compounds the situation.
Ultimately, by hanging on and trying to sweep this further under the carpet he shows his true colours. Man of Honour..? hardly..!
What’s all this don’t kick a man when he’s down stuff
He’s not down yet and we’re not in primary school
Not only do you kick him when he’s down you stamp on him several times to make sure he doesn’t get back up again
Have the British ever shown us mercy at anytime in our living history I think not
Ooh I could’ve blown up a balloon there !!!
@ Jim Thomson Thanks Jim for correcting that link, every little helps to inform people. I posted the Shetland link in O/T glad to see the Rev,s got it on the main page.
@Colin Church
This would be prominent BT supporter Adam Tomkins who worked with the Conservatives on their Smith Commission contribution?
So first Mr Dunlop and now Mr Tomkins aiding (and abetting) Mr Mundell. This is the office the SG have to clear further devolution representations with… Uh huh, I see.
So, are we feeling better together yet?
I’d just like to point out again that the wording of the statute in the Representation of the People Act 1983 is probably the only legal chance the people have of getting at him and the 21 days we have to lodge a complaint at the Court of Session runs out on Thursday.
His lies benefitted himself and the wording clearly states that the result can be called into question if any of the candidates are found to have been making false statements about the character or conduct of any of the candidates standing (in this case himself when he lied on public record saying he had no knowledge of the affair triggering a £1.4m inquiry) ‘for the purpose of affecting the return of any candidate at the election’.
This doesn’t need to be your opponent, it can be yourself too Alistair!
Two days from tomorrow and the chance goes a begging and it slips away into Westminster panels and inquiries and those who have probably already sworn to have his back if he takes the fall to protect whoever else is involved,
Mr Mundell, I think is well involved and that is why WM has been so quiet letting Carmichael take all the flak.
Tho’ if he is forced to resign, it is unlikely he will go quietly ….. and the fun begins again, in earnest for Fluffy.
Here are some libdems trying to square the moral circle of Rennie’s support for Liarcarmichael.
link to libdemvoice.org.
Don’t know if they’ve heard the orwellianspeak interview yet.
Look into the origins of the information, how it supposedly got to Carmichael, and you hit a brick wall. Forget what was or wasn’t said — the real scandal is they were eavesdropping on our FM.
Wings help!
Is it me?
Mr Carmichael told BBC Radio Orkney: “We had an account of a discussion, which we believed to be true” What part? The bit where the author states it may be lost in translation?
“The first minister and the French ambassador have both said that that was not part of the conversation and we have to accept that as being the truth”. You don’t seem too convinced?
“But the fact of the matter is that the information that came to me, I had no reason to doubt.” Really if that is the case the why lie!
In the name of God go now, you will be pulled apart in Westminster, you shame your office and your party!
Pam McMahon
The Orkney crowdfunder will not be posted till tomorrow.I also want to contribute so I’ve left a comment on their page to post the link on Twitter, Facebook & other sites like Wings to maximise their reach.
He gets paid £67,000 A YEAR TO BE A GOOD CONSTITUENCY MP and as a Lawyer Carmichael knows that just like in any Court of Law being contentious at your job is no defence if you defame your opponent or break the law.
@ Pam McMahon says Petra ”Don’t do Facebook and can’t find this on their Twitter page, so have you any other links to contribute to this crowd fund? Would be more than happy to do so.”
Pam I’m sorry that I can’t help. I’d like to contribute too. Maybe someone else on here could advise.
I see that Cadogan @ 4:51 has posted some information. Maybe that will help. I’m in a rush / off to make tea but will have a look at Cadogans post / search around later.
@ Cadogan Enright says ”Let’s hope they remember to allow PayPal.”
link to facebook.com
Orkney funding appeal soon
I hope he stays for no other reason than the prospect of Mhairi Black putting the nut on him in the chamber would be just too good to miss.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn’t a cabinet minister who was about to leak a document that involved a private conversation involving a foreign ambassador not have to run it past the cabinet or foreign office?
Having read a thread on the BBC Shetland page on Facebook asking to talk to folks who voted for him and who would have voted differently had they been in possession of facts – I’m surprised and saddened to say there is still a lot of support for this lying son of a bitch – excuse my Francais.
Carmichael states that he hadn’t read the memo before sanctioning it’s release, so just following orders then? The fool, the patsy, left holding the parcel if the plot went wrong. And he did say that the memo could have come from any gov’t department.
The French scuppered the plot by declining to play the ” no involvement in domestic politics” card. Time to cast the net wider. First up – call Rt Hon Mundell.
We only leaked the memo that we wanted to believe because I asked someone to write a memo that did not represent the discussions held.
Still sounds like dirty smear tactics to me.
@ Macart
Tomkins spotted in BandQ buying Miraclegrow.
That long grass is about to get even longer.
Excellent habitat for pandas.
Andy Hewitt,
You are being very generous when referring to Willie Rennie as “half” wit…
Double the negative defecit, divide by the size of the lie = fook all wit.
It certainly looks like he intends hanging on. However, he has seriously undermined his credibility. He will find it difficult to hold people to account and any attempt to suggest another MP is being less than truthful will be met with derision.
I hope he is a good constituency MP because that is what he is going to have to focus on.
Just got a Facebook message from YES Orkney to say they are working on cash appeal to take AC to court before Thursday
They say keep an eye on their Facebook site for details which will be posted ASAP
REV – When it arrives can you boost it please?
If YES Orkney can get him into court, can they ask him under oath what Mundell knew???
So we have a Tory and a lib Dem sitting in the Scotland office and Carmichael is approached with a memo that appears to be damaging to their bitter rivals in the election.
And Carmichael the 14 year politician has less than passing interest in it saying, OK release it.
This is what we are to believe?
How about this scenario
Carmichael walks out of his office memo in hand
Hey Mundell I just received this memo it looks like Nicola has stepped in it big time!
It will hurt Labour and the SNP
How can we make this work to our advantage?
Carmichael expects us to believe, an experienced politician would not read a memo that is damaging to his opponents
It is human nature to read it and natural to share it with his Tory deputy
@ Hazel Lewry
Does the BBC control that page? If so, don’t believe everything you read. BBC has form for controlling news output & it’s other online offerings are no different.
I’ve lost count of the number of contributors to this site who have been blocked from posting anything on BBC sites. This is how they work. Block access completely or by deleting anything which doesn’t agree with their story.
Got to love the Shetland News tagline “Great is the truth and it will prevail” link to shetnews.co.uk
You couldn’t make it up… oh wait…
Cui bono – the tories of course. Mr Mundell would you care to comment?
I think the Lib Dems have made an error here in backing him. I’d have asked him to resign personally and put my support behind someone less tarnished in a by-election which they might lose, but at least they’d have shown some principles which would be remembered.
They might be at a low point at the moment but they do actually have supporters across Scotland and could contest many elections throughout Scotland. They also have some very good politicians – or that was always how I traditionally thought of them. Sticking with this discredited MP will likely cost them a good few percentage points of votes at all levels for the next few years.
I’m looking forward to the HoC getting underway to see how this issue plays out. I’m expecting a very sheepish apology.
Andrew McLean says:
25 May, 2015 at 5:29 pm
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn’t a cabinet minister who was about to leak a document that involved a private conversation involving a foreign ambassador not have to run it past the cabinet or foreign office?
Absolutely spot-on. If that wasn’t a standing order, all sorts of diplomatic messes would happen.
So just who read it? Just who ‘modified’ it? Just who is Carbunckle protecting?
Just hopped over the 12k mark –
link to change.org?
Carmichael’s incredible stance, along with the appointment of Prof Tomkins, is sending a clear message to us ‘sweaty socks’ – the BTUKOK bedfellows are still in charge, and there’s not a damn thing we can do about it.
Let’s be prepared for more of the same in the Queen’s speech – if any of us were ever under the illusion that we are citizens rather than subjects and serfs, Lizzie’s gonny put us straight with a script authored by the Eton Boys.
@ Orri:2:20
Don’t think so. Some parts of the Act came into force when it was enacted but the meat did not: so says Lallands Peat Worrier, who is a lawyer.
I read it and it seems to me that the parts which came into force are mostly those which give the power to make the legislation work: but the actual process is not commenced till a statutory instrument is laid: and it seems it hasn’t been
link to legislation.gov.uk
Must say I enjoyed listening to the beautiful accent of the interviewer – a great pity we don’t hear more in key roles from BBC Pacific Quay
Carmichael’s worst sin in this sordid episode isn’t that he tried to cover his tracks, disreputable as that is, rather that he hoped to smear the First Minister.
Now eh luv the Dundee accent but funk me that Orkney ane’s a belter. Quite refreshing to hear that on the wireless.
(Belter as in really really good)
@ronnie anderson 5:01pm
Sir, you are very welcome. If I had the spare cash, I’d treat you to a smoking jacket and cap like this fine gentleman 🙂
link to upload.wikimedia.org
Mind you, seeing you in it would probably get Paula Rose all aflutter (again).
I have been wondering why this was leaked at all. If AC believed it was true why not raise it in the HOC directly? Or put it out under his own name as a press release? Why the attempt at secrecy?
So, Carbunkle says the first time he saw the contents of the alleged report was when he saw it printed in the Torygraph…..yet, just before saying that, he said he was aware of the contents. A bit pedantic me thinks !!!!
@Chic McGregor says: 25 May, 2015 at 1:27 pm:
“PS actually an ‘exclave’ of the UK, but an ‘enclave’ to Scotland.”
Actually it would still become an enclave of Scotland under any conditions, Chic. Scottish Legal jurisdiction is internationally recognised and is sacrosanct under International Law of the Seas.
All of Scotland is only part of the bipartite United Kingdom as long as we remain one of the only two signatory Kingdoms that form the Union.
It is the Council Tax Payers of the adjacent local authorities that pay for the policing of the rigs or on ships or aircraft within Scottish territorial Waters or airspace.
i know we are talking about Fozzy but i thought i would point out those dead heads Labour are now promoting 16/17 year olds should get the vote in the EU referendum,you know the referendum they were against but are now for,somebody remind me but were they not against 16/17 year olds having the vote in our referendum they flip flop so much its hard to keep track.
Pinched their ideas my ass get your own ideas Labour.
Here in England, there is no mention of Carmichael anywhere at all, shock. There really should be. LibDems are still a UK party, Orkney and Shetland are still UK etc but nothing.
Carmichael and co must have been strategic in all of this, from bank holiday Friday announcement of his lies, to total UK media black out within 48 holiday hours.
Tricky bunch unionists.
@ Jim Thomson 6.33 Thank you Jim but I,ve moved wie the times, ah vape,I,ll settle fur ah steam iron an bask in its vapour,an its good for the complection,health & safety must be adhered to.
Then it wouldn’t have the same effect as full unionist propaganda machine smear,which was it’s only purpose.
They ran with it for days.
Can’t accept that BTUKOK weren’t all over this right to Cameron through Mundell and Carmichael,and pushed the leak into media attack.
Forever known as the Fib Dems in Scotland. Their brand is deliciously tainted.
Never forgive, never forget.
@Cadogan Enright
This is the right time to make our collective voices heard and our weight felt. Let’s see how Carmichael does under oath.
Donation waiting.
@Iain Brotherhood
“…appointment of Prof Tomkins…”
What’s this? AbiesAlba getting a new role? This man is no friend of Scotland.
It has probably been pointed out by lots of others already but Alistair has contradicted both himself and the findings of the cabinet secretary in this little piece.
The Cabinet Secretary was very clear that it was only Roddin and Carmichael who knew about this. (Something that I and others felt was extremely unlikely) and sure enough Alistair quotes his staff saying “We think that it should be put into the public domain.”
His other comment was that he had not seen the actual memo until he read the article in the Telegraph but on the other recording on wings stated “the first I became aware of this was when I received a phone call on Friday afternoon.” Not the same thing at all and if he as a lawyer doesn’t know the difference he should.
Lastly, in the flurry of tweets after memo-gate broke, the Torys seem to be suspiciously quiet. I don’t suppose anyone can now find a message to Tory MPs saying “don’t touch this with a barge pole- its a heffalump trap for the libdems and labour- stand back and watch as they fall in.” Its a bit like the curious case of the dog who didn’t bark.
@Valerie
“I thought I was angry yesterday, but listening to that interview has ratcheted up my anger another few notches, the sheer arrogance and condescension of this self congratulatory pig, sounds like we should be bloody grateful for him ripping the arse out of the electorate, and taking our money!!!!
Please people, up there, do not lie down to this filth, many like me will contribute to legal action. This man cannot be allowed to set the bar for behaviour, we must DEMAND better.
I’m fuming at his tone in that interview, and I don’t care what Craig Murray has to say on the matter, or if he was in this with others etc. At this point, we have everything we need to know, to have him out.”
Absolutely agree. This demands action. It is time the people were heard.
Is the last lie first, or the first lie last.Fekit am cutting oot the middle men, Gerry Gerry four balls of Hairy String please , ah,ll dey the pleating. Nothing like the sight of ah Hemp Rope tae get tae the Truth.
The message that was given to the Torygraph did say that it might not be true.
i saw a news report when this just came out. Carmichael said that he and his Aid Concocted this as they thought it would be a good way to get the SNP as they where doing so well. He told his Aid to release it to the Telegraph. Now if I saw this other people must have saw this also. Carmichael has no Integrity. He is without Honour. He also has Children that have to Attend School. Has he no pity for what they will have to put up with .because of his Lies. At one time he was a decent man. Now Westminster has got to him. Alister you must Resign for your Children’s Future. This will not go away. Think about it.
The notion of Mundell and Tomkins determining the future devolution package for a country neither believe exists is more than a little disturbing.
Just got round to listening to the interview with Fat Boy. What a load of utter sh*te. He seriously seems to believe his own pish. If he’s not gonna go, he’ll have to be pushed.
Roll on next year’s Holyrood elections when we can show the FibDems what we think of giving people second chances.
Eftir listenin ti that interfiew Ah thowt that pirie Radio Orkney wad mak a bettir chobe o representin us than the fowk at Pacific Quay.
As for Carmurky — may the ghost of Pelamis The Seasnake defecate upon his head and may his liver be fed to da Muckle Mester Stoor Worm.
He has done nothing wrong according to the Electoral Commission.
He has done nothing wrong according to The Law Society.
He has done nothing wrong according to Westminster’s rules.
He has done nothing wrong according to the purring queen.
Just proves how rotten to the core the system is.
But 55% of Scots voted to remain part of it.
Or did they? Were they really that stupid?
Euan Roddin is the man trying to keep a straight face sitting behind Carmichael as he sneers at the Scottish Government select committee and squashes his civil servant Flatt.
link to youtube.com
His Powerbase profile repeats the damaging story about the first Minister.
“In the build up to the 2015 general election a memo of a conversation between the leader of the Scottish National Party Nicola Sturgeon and a French ambassador, where the Scot claimed she would prefer David Cameron to remain as Prime Minister, was leaked.”
link to archive.is
The STV leaders debate was screened on 2nd April. Nicola Sturgeon won that according to the public.
She beat Cameron into 2nd place. He wasn’t going to take that lying down. WM had to come up with something to stop her from influencing UK votes. He had already written off Scotland but he needed to influence voters intending to vote Labour in England & Wales.
What they came up with was a memo that could be amended by addition of a couple of lines. We already know that the final lines weren’t written in the same style as the report from the French Consul General. We also know that he didn’t report those lines as part of his conversation with the civil servant.
Because all members of govt & parties were going to have to push the ‘Sturgeon guilty’ line, they all knew about it in advance.Tories,Libs & Labs colluded to bring down SNP in the polls.
Carmichael was a fool by doing their bidding & then compounded it by lying about it. Although parliament had been ended members of the coalition were still in power until a new parliament is set up.Carmichael didn’t do this off his own back-he was instructed to leak the doctored document. That doesn’t let him or the rest of the coalition govt off the hook though. They colluded to hit Sturgeon & Carmichael lied about it to the electorate of UK & Scotland.
I have no sympathy for him. There should be no place for such behaviour in govt. He is just as culpable as everyone else & should accept that the approbation he is recieving now is fully deserved & step down wiithout further delay.
I’m sure that in the coming weeks Team56 will be working on the other elements of the smear.
SNP politicians should refer to this lying scum in every TV interview.
SNP supporters should refer to him at every Question Time and similar TV and radio programmes.
He must not be allowed to get away with it.
Pravda GB forced the SNP Transport Minister to resign because he had relied on their weather forecast which proved disastrously wrong.
If they can force innocent SNP politicians to resign, why not lying scum politicians?
Because they are lying scum themselves.
They are all Better Together – at the expense of the people of Scotland.
Sorry but forgot to say in my last post
Debate- 2nd April
Smear -evening of 3rd April. That is no coincidence
I can think of no better reason why Carmichael should resign than that interview. The man has no shame. Words fail me, the people of Orkney and Shetland deserve better than this man, he is simply a self-absorbed lying bastard who is only looking out for himself not his constituents.
Interesting that the special advisor’s surname is very similar to the Gaelic word for ‘rat’!
@Colin_Church and HandandShrimp
It’s well beyond a joke now and more than a little disturbing when you look at the Scotland Office line up – Mundell, Dunlop and Tomkins?
The powers that be know fine well what all of those individuals mean to those who follow politics in Scotland. If that’s not a message written in dayglo crayon, I don’t know what is.
Stitch up is on the cards where devolution is concerned. Three stonewall anti-devolutionists in charge of the veto over devolution representations from the SG.
Jeez! 🙁
I don’t expect Carmichael will resign he is proving to be utterly shameless like others off the lib-dem ilk. In the meantime I’ll refer to him as Chingachgook the last of his tribe, in Scotland anyway
I Clark,
‘The Carmichael’
In my view, judges in Scotland are even more rotten to the core than Carmichael is.
According to The Law Society, Carmichael has not done anything illegal.
I think we have to bring this fat slug down and nail his slimy lying hide to the wall. The ‘new wave’of political change in Scotland must start to impose itself by flushing this shite away from the body politic of our country. Let the crowd fund begin!
I think the saddest thing that this debacle – once again – exposes the inadequacy of the UK and “Scottish” press = MSM and BBC – with the honourable exception of this interview from BBC Orkney, the National, Sunday Herald and possibly some local press in Orkney and Shetland.
A proper press (across all media – press, tv, radio, online) is a basic requirement of democracy.
The UK does not have a proper press, Scotland even less so.
How can the UK congratulate itself on being one of the leading democracies in the world when the UK democracy is basically a sham?
Establishment protecting their own and using any means necessary to drown out any dissident voices – even risking diplomatic embarrassment with a foreign power (in effect calling the French ambassador a liar!) to score some cheap tabloid-style-points on a political opponent??? Is that really state of the UK democracy?
But it gets worse. The leak/cover-up is revealed (conveniently after the GE) and the guilty government minister gets away with it and should be given a “second chance” because deep down he’s a decent guy, really. And these things happen.
It’s all OK because it’s just the done thing in the British “democracy”.
Last September 45% of Scottish voters rejected this mindset, this May 50% did so. The Establishment must be well aware that people in Scotland are rejecting their way of doing things but they’ll cling on as long as possible and employ their BBC to spout out the suitable propaganda, in line with the right-wing “media-barons” who control most of the other media.
It’s really infuriating and depressing. Thank god for sites like WoS!
On a more positive note, at least Andy Murray is comfortably through to the second round of Roland Garros (6-3, 6-3, 6-1) 🙂
Andy Nimmo,
“An alternative view from Craig Murray.”
I lost all respect for Craig Murray when he revealed shortly after the election that Carmichael had been a close friend of his for a long time.
For three years this lying scum had been campaigning against independence and Craig Murray still regarded him as a close friend.
No doubt Craig Murray too would have been corrupted by Westminster like his pal.
The SNP have been proven right about not selecting Craig Murray as a candidate.
Alastair Carmichael(aka artfull dodger) knows he will have to resign but his lawyer will be trying to work out the best possible exit strategy. The damage is done but Alastair actually is in a position to cause further chaos by naming the others who were possibly in on the fraudulent and misleading article, namely Clegg, Rennie and Mundell. When he does resign If he keeps quiet and saves these 3 others he may get out of this a new well paid low profile job.
This inquiry has cost us 1.4 million pounds, on that basis alone having the facts to hand it should now be a criminal offence with custodial penalties. Or is he above the law?
It’s ‘squeeky-bum’ time in quite a few places over this.
And the best bit is, they’ve no place to run.
What’s ‘The Art of War’ preferred position now?
starlaw
Hang on there , Chingachgook was an honourable man.
There is no reason why we should stop kicking him until he resigns.
But our resident accountant Fiona insists that the cost of the enquiry was zero.
So can we please stop referring to those 1.4 million or 1,400 pounds which were never spent.
I see that Tomkins is calling for a massive programme of Unionist re-education in order to rub out lingering traces of Scotshire identity.
And HS2 from Scotland to northern English cities to be a priority.
Well, good luck with the second of those. (Just a pity that SNP politicians would probably play along with it.)
Dr Jim says
“Ooh I could’ve blown up a balloon there !!!”
What?
A barrage balloon?
OOOH. 🙂
I’m just watching a real nasty piece of work here at my pals house. Professor Vernon Bogdanor on The politics Channel. He is Gresham Professor of Political History. In a programme billed as, “Election 2015 Lecture”. This guy is pure poison and his lecture 100% Britnat Propaganda.
This is way above anything that BBC Scotland would dare broadcast.
Rock did you read this?
Alistair was one of very few MPs who raised the dreadful human rights abuses in Uzbekistan even before I got there. He has a genuine interest in human rights worldwide, and had a much better motivation in going into politics than the large majority of politicians. He was never anything like a diehard unionist in personal conviction. I felt quite proud for him when he was asked during the campaign what would his role be in negotiating for the UK the conditions of separation after a Yes vote. He replied that he was Scottish, and he would be on the Scottish, not the UK side.
I have never chosen my friends by my politics, and I am not one of those people who is only happy in the company of those who agree with me. I am happiest with a few drinks and a good argument in intellectually challenging company. I also do know that all human beings are flawed, and I don’t expect perfection. So I have no intention of ending friendship with Alistair.
All of which makes it hard, but I have to say that I really do think he needs to resign as an MP, and to do so immediately.
Listen carefully from the 1:25 mark:
“noo, that wisna true…”
Weel done, beuy!
Carmichael still hasn’t been questioned properly about his lie on Channel 4 news.
He denied prior knowledge.
He lied and he has not explained his lie. To me this is the most important issue rather than the leak itself.
Heywood’s “enquiry” findings IMHO was deliberately released on a bank holiday weekend to avoid the MSM having to hush it up.
The pressure must be applied from tomorrow onwards once everyone’s back at their desks.
Prof Tomkins of the Scottish Office has his own blog which is long and very exciting too.
Prof thinks
” Let’s twin every schoolchild in Scotland with one in England, and let’s pay for them to visit each other and learn each other’s ways.”
or
“Let’s build that bridge from Scotland to Northern Ireland. Let’s put right the madness that the only airport in Scotland to be connected by rail is Prestwick.”
or
“Let’s use the great cultural power of football and have Glasgow’s big clubs competing with those in Manchester and London, rather than playing Motherwell and St Mirren every other week.
and
“None of these things on its own will secure the Union.”
Did Scotland not just vote out all of these guys May 8, is this democracy and does it ever occur to any of them that they have mandate to govern Scotland, and then you watch a fraud like Carmichael calmly lie about his conduct on C4 news.
No doubt the English Premier League would welcome Celtic and Rangers with open etc for christs sake.
14 dedicated years of service.
Deserves a pat on the back, rather he’s ‘entitled’ to it.
Just make sure you have prepared a bright post-it note with the inscription ‘kick me’.
Thanks for the memo-ries.
@Paula Rose 9.09pm
Don’t waste your breath, darling. He’s not fit to tie your open-toed stiletto sandals. 🙂
Got the hairy string in the garage Ronnie. And a donation for the court action just waiting to be sent.
HandandShrimp @ 7.39 said,”The notion of Mundell and Tomkins determining the future devolution package for a country neither believe exists is more than a little disturbing.”
That’s what I call understatement.
Respect.
@lumilumi: my Finnish is sadly deficient but needless to say you’re right, as usual.
Ditto.
He wants to be accountable to his constituents. To forgive him they must drop their standards of acceptable public behaviour.
link to grousebeater.wordpress.com
Folk I’m working with 50/50 as to whether he’ll survive.
Oh, and about the Orcadian (?) accent in the clip. Love it! 😀
Strangely, sounds very like the west coast Finland Swedish accent (cadence, intonation… even some of the pronunciation… ) If the west coast Swedish-speaking Finns spoke English instead of Swedish, that’s what they’d sound like. 🙂
Besides my native Finnish and English, I’m also fluent in Swedish and have fooled some riksvenskar (=Swedish Swedes) with my imitation of west coast Finland Swedish accent so that they think I’m a native Swedish-speaker from Österbotten = Finland’s west coast. The Swedish I was taught in school and what my Swedish-speaking friends from the Helsinki area speak sounds different.
But Swedes tend to think all Finnish Swedish accents sound “cute” and “quaint”. (Bring on the biscuit tins…) They call Swedish-speaking Finns “Moomins” after the much beloved characters created by Swedish-speaking Finn Tove Jansson.
Patronising? Yes. But Sweden was a European superpower in the 17th century and Finland was the (area-wise equal or larger) eastern part of that “rik” (realm). Nevermind that Sweden lost Finland in 1809 and Finland became independent in 1917, they still patronise us in the nicest possible way. 😀
How does that despicable man think that having worked for the good people of Orkney and Shetland for 14 years that it gives him carte blanche to blatantly lie about that memo?? How does 14 years working for the Isles ‘entitle’ him to be allowed to get away with deceiving the very people which he is supposed to represent? How does all that good work ‘entitle’ him to besmirch the name of a French Ambassador and the First Minister of Scotland???
Why does this despicable man think that 14 years working as a MP in the Isles ‘entitle’ him to allow a lie to KEEP RUNNING knowing it IS a lie???? What kind of man allows someone else’s reputation to be damaged and that person’s credibility besmirched when he is able to deny that lie???? He let it run because he KNEW that mud might stick, people (that wanted to) would believe it and thus, his opponent would lose her credibility and possibly lose her the election! That despicable man thought he could get away with it so he let the lie grow arms and legs and let it go as far as it could!! APPALLING behaviour for an MP!! But in these times, not surprising for a Unionist politician! :o/
How does 14 years working for the people of Orkney and Shetland ‘entitle’ this man to waste a GREAT DEAL of taxpayers money?? In these days of austerity, that money could have been used for so many things to help the vulnerable! HOW DARE HE allow keep that lie going and thus, require an Inquiry so that valuable funds were taken out of the mouths of the hungry, the children, the elderly… HOW DARE HE suggest that once the Inquiry was up and running, it should just keep going, thus money being diverted to pay for it!! What he MEANT was, he hoped the other reprehensible characters in this horrible tale would cover his back, and no one would be any the wiser as to who was responsible for this whole rotten mess!
This man is a disgrace on both a personal level, and as a Member of Parliament. His immoral behaviour could have resulted in an innocent party being harmed personally and in her professional capacity, but he was not the least bit concerned about that. And his behaviour should not in any way be condoned or accepted other than as malicious spite. Neither the people or Orkney & Shetlands deserve that. And neither do the people of Scotland. If he truly believes in ‘Recall’ as he said he did, then he knows his behaviour warrants stepping out as gracefully as his underhand tactics allows. If he now suddenly doesn’t believe in ‘Recall’, he must be forced to go. Either way, that is the LEAST that should happen.
O/T
Follow on from my earlier post. I didn’t get a chance to watch the Vernon Bogdanor Lecture at my pal’s house as it was on when I arrived and I jusy caught the tail end of it. I’m home now and had a quick shuffty at the iPlayer and the lecture is here : –
link to bbc.co.uk
I’ll watch it later but if the rest of it is like the brief bit I saw already it will be quite vile. I may have got a bit that was out of context, though. I looked up Bogdanor and it turns out he was one of Cameron’s Uni professors.
We shall see
The more I learn of this the more certain I am that we are being hoodwinked, I don’t think that this is about Mr Carmichael alone, the truth about the leak has not been disclosed, the so called inquiry looks like a whitewash, we need to discover how far into Whitehall, this was sanctioned.
Did the PM’s office know? Did the Palace of Westminster know? This memo discussed a close ally of the UK, are we to believe now one briefed the PM, they were going to disclose a private conversation between the First Minister and the French Ambassador, and we are to believe not one question was raised about the political ramifications! Who the hell are they kidding! The conservative government were planning a change to the relationship between the UK and the EU, and a government minister, a member of the cabinet didn’t tell the PM! The Whitehall mandarins didn’t pass this on to the Permanent Secretary, Really!
To quote from the last leg!
BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT
Robert: Vernon Bogdanor Lecture
He considers a potential break up of the union ‘alarming’, but not withdrawal from Europe.
He also thinks the SNP got 50% of the vote rather than 52% (I believe) and ‘what about the other half now effectively disenfranchised’.
He worries, too, that Ukip got only 1 seat yet gathered 4 million votes.
You listen to him enunciate figures but just when you think he is being the dispassionate historian he adds a personal remark contrary to the good health of Scotland. It came as no surprise to hear him say his best student was Cameron. That can only mean the others were dross.
The short and simple answer to question is that Fozzie is a proven fuckwit, does Scotland need this arsehole, well that’s easy, no We don’t. Scotland deserves much better than this and hopefully within 5 years We shall be free from this shit level of politician. Hope over Fear, the Dream goes on!!!!!!
Don’t worry folks this will all be delved into and analysed to microscopic level by our broadcasters on the late evening political shows from Scotland tomorrow 🙂
Don’t hold yer breath / establishment at work here methinks if Carbuncle is this cocky, (old boys network and all that – what ?)
How does that despicable man think that having worked for the good people of Orkney and Shetland for 14 years that it gives him carte blanche to blatantly lie about that memo?
Probably he thought he wouldn’t get nicked for it. They found phone call records from his office to the Telegraph made just before they went nationwide mad over it all.
If the leakster had called the Telegraph from their own phone or a phone box in the street outside, Carmichael would have got away with it Scot free.
The SPAD that lost his rather tasty severance bonus must also be kicking himself.
This debacle is best summed up in terms of the “Combustion triangle”.
Oxygen provided by the Tories and the MSM.
Ignition provided by the lamentable Scottish Office and the Fib dums
Fuel provided by the Labour Party in Scotchland..remind me again who was the senior SNP member that the wee prick Cooke was bleating about to the FM.
Let’s face it they were all complicit..shitehawks the lot of them, however something troubles me with regard to our French friends involvement.
I don’t think we’ve heard the last of this.
lumilumi says:
“A proper press (across all media – press, tv, radio, online) is a basic requirement of democracy.
The UK does not have a proper press, Scotland even less so.”
I totally agree.
Frenchgate is a HUGE political scandal.
A UK cabinet minister and others (some perhaps unidentified) conspired to smear another politician by leaking false information. Not any minister, no, the minister whose job it is to be Scotland’s representative in the UK government. And, not any politician was targeted, no, it was the First Minister of Scotland!
Why did Carmichael chose to release by leak the information? Why, if he believed the information was accurate and genuinely in the public’s interest, did he not hold a press conference and release it openly? The obvious conclusion is that (as he admitted later) he knew it was false! Common sense dictates it was likely to be untrue, the memo involved even suggested it was untrue, and in the day all parties involved first hand said it was untrue. Yet Carmichael (and others) went ahead and attempted to make political gain.
All this was dishonest, dishonourable and disgusting behaviour.
To make matters worse Carmichael did not admit his despicable actions until after he had been re-elected, explicitly lying on TV about his involvement.
This is all much worse than anything about MPs’ expenses.
Yet, where is all the UK and Scottish media coverage? Almost non existent!
The festering gangrenous hand of Unionist has been fiddling with the democratic process for too long. Time to hold transgressors to account. If the MSM won’t play its part, there are other channels these days.
O/T slightly but I feel we should be fighting on several fronts.
Has Ruth Davidson explained or ever been pressed to explain her absurd tweet on election day about “burly blokes”
It was unsubstantiated and it appears she’s got away with it unchallenged yet I’ve read in some quarters she’d a “good” election.
If a good election means tweeting lies then I’m astounded.
O/T – Chunky Mark’s sponsored film “Westmonster” is now up on YouTube. It’s a 3 hour plus, tour de force.
link to youtube.com
Can’t see how Mundell didn’t know about the scam in advance.
If the head of the UK Treasury deems it legal to release internal documents to embarrass or undermine Salmond ‘in the national interest’ – he means England’s empire – then Mundell will have been infected with that same attitude, and passing it on to Carmichael tell him all is street legal. Do it.
The idea is plain silly that Sturgeon would sit in front of French officials and tell them her political opponent who wants to rearrange the EU to suit his reputation and be a pain in the arse to the French, Germans and Italians is the best person in Number 10.
@Robert Peffers.
Evening, Robert. I believe Vernon Bogdanor was Chillaxing Cam’s tutor at university, so we should not be surprised by his UKOK drivel. Nil desperandum.
Hope you are well and girding your loins for next May.
We need you.
Did Stu write (or tweet) at one point that those billboards of Salmond/Sturgeon with Miliband in their pocket were designed to frighten Labour voters into voting Tory?
I seem to recall something along those lines, but not sure if I’ve got the detail right, and wouldn’t want to expose myself to the ignominy of anything getting “lost in translation’. 😀
Can anyone help me out, please?
Andrew McLean
You are right, of course. Carmichael doesn’t have the gumption, the strength or the wit to act alone. Or the finesse to cover his tracks. To imagine he acted on his own initiative would be to ignore every instinct we have and ignore the British Government’s history.
I suspect the outcome of the enquiry would have been very different if the lib dems hadn’t tanked and remained in government.
The whole stunt has backfired incredibly well for the SNP despite all our anger. It acts as a wee gentle reminder of the Scottish Government’s position in the eyes of the UK state. The Scottish Government is a threat.
David Wallace says:
“Got to love the Shetland News tagline “Great is the truth and it will prevail” link to shetnews.co.uk
You couldn’t make it up… oh wait…”
Hilarious David, a couple of worthies disseminating the ‘move along, nothing to see hear’ message was worth a click.
“But others take a different stance. Shetland archivist and local historian (and deep sleeper) Brian Smith – who has had political disagreements with Carmichael in the past – said he felt there was a “fox hunting atmosphere about the campaign” for him to resign.
“This was a foolish ploy that was doomed to failure, but it is hardly by-election material,” Smith told Shetland News. “I have nothing at all against the SNP but an election victory in these circumstances wouldn’t be much [of a] coup.
“The national press is already got fed up with the subject and I recommend that local fox hunters do so too. This is just a typical Shetland excitement which will be forgotten in a week’s time.”
Is good, but…
“Meanwhile a statement issued by Maurice Mullay on behalf of the Shetland Conservative Association said many voters would be “extremely and understandably disappointed” at Carmichael’s admission, which local Tories “take on face value as an ‘error of judgement’”.
“Alistair has been held in high regard as an effective and hard-working member of parliament for Orkney and Shetland and this revelation, especially from a lawyer, is hard to understand or reconcile.
“The political scene in Shetland has regrettably seen dramatic changes during the past few years when some parties have not always acted in the honourable manner we would have normally expected.
“We hope that moderation can be restored and that confidence can return to local politics. We currently take comfort from the fact that the Conservatives are not subject to the wrangling affecting the leadership and associated problems affecting the Lib Dems, Labour and UKIP parties.”
Indeed.
Natasha,
“Don’t waste your breath, darling. He’s not fit to tie your open-toed stiletto sandals.”
I had thought only unionist agents expressed such wise sentiments to hinder Scottish independence.
But some independence supporters also use them, apparently to further the cause of Scottish independence.
The wise Troika on this site.
Is the third one of you ok? Haven’t heard a cough on this site recently.
Carmichael is lying scum, whether he his Craig Murray’s bossom pal or not.
The Lib Dems are well known for screaming their opportunist nice guy comments, which they know perfectly well they wouldn’t ever be required to carry out.
Apart from words, did Carmichael actually do anything for human rights anywhere?
“He was never anything like a diehard unionist in personal conviction. I felt quite proud for him when he was asked during the campaign what would his role be in negotiating for the UK the conditions of separation after a Yes vote. He replied that he was Scottish, and he would be on the Scottish, not the UK side.”
I remember that from the referendum campaign, which makes me wonder whether he’s been fitted up over this. Course, now he can’t blow the whistle and take anyone else down with him, his credibility’s gone on both sides.
Yo Rock I’m quite enjoying the cut of your jibe – actually you are very funny, Carry on Regardless xx
Morag,
Is it true that people having holiday homes in Scotland were eligible to vote in the referendum?
And they voted No in big numbers?
Of course BBC news tonight is NOT reporting on carmicheals lying and fraud but they did have a mention of the “red arrows” doing a fly over today. I wish the red arrows would fly up there own red, white and blue British arseholes and just fuck off
EU nationals resident in Scotland could vote in the Scottish independence referendum.
Ethnic Scots living abroad could not.
EU nationals resident in the UK will not be able to vote in the UK independence referendum.
Ethnic Brits living in the EU will be allowed to vote.
Who are the “blood and soil” nationalists?
Aye Robert, international maritime law is governed by UNCLOS and the ICJ. However one man’s enclave is another man’s exclave.
For example, Kainingrad (previously Konigsberg) which is surrounded by Lithuania and Poland may be regarded as an enclave to them but is also, in fact, an exclave of Russia.
Paula Rose,
“Yo Rock I’m quite enjoying the cut of your jibe – actually you are very funny, Carry on Regardless xx”
As a Green cheering the SNP landslide on this site while backing the Greens for standing candidates against the SNP, no doubt you are.
“Honey”, “dear”, you can’t have it both ways. Like Carmichael.
Labour cannot ever admit they were wrong. But surely the Scottish Greens can?
Did he claim he had “no reason to doubt” a memo that he claims he never read before leaking? Someone needs to nail him on that, as it’s plainly a ludicrous statement.
a) He authorised the leak of a short memo that he’d not bothered to read.
b) He claims he had no reason to doubt the memo, yet if he’d actually read it, he’d have noted that the person writing the memo thought something had got “lost in translation”. That’s one reason to doubt right there.
This may have been said before.
Carbuncle never thought he would have to own up to this, because he believed that he and his unionist, parasite colleagues would never in a million years get the HUMPING they received at the GE. He was anticipating a continuation of the LibDum/Con coalition situation in which his misdemeanour would just conveniently disappear.
Fluffy and wee Wullie sad sacks must both be involved in this as well. The truth will come out at some point.
The carbuncle is a LIAR, a CRIMINAL and a total SCONE.
We need the man from UNCLOS.
Sorry, couldnae help masel.
How much is a civil servant in the Scotland Office paid, to record anything that he thinks he hears?
Oops, Pardon. How crass.
What I meant to say of course is how much is a civil servant in the Scotland Office paid to make mistakes.
Ooops, sorry again. Dear me, I am having trouble getting what I want to say down on paper.
Let’s try again.
If I don’t get it right something’s bound to get lost in translation.
Is the error-making civil servant still employed in the Scotland Office?
Is he still being paid to record what he thinks he hears?
Just can’t seem to say it without some sort of linguistic aberration, can I.
And here’s another thought.
Would the findings of a hundred thousand Cabinet Office enquiries into a memo produced by a civil servant who recorded ‘what he thought he had heard’ be anything other than that.
Handy, isn’t it.
I don’t know if the name of the Scottish Office senior Civil Servant and compiler of the memo has been named yet by either the Cabinet Office or the MSM.
I believe though that Chris Flatt, who is a deputy director at the Scotland Office and who works “very closely with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office devolution unit” is a candidate as author.
Below you can read an extract from The Scottish Parliaments grilling of Alastair Carmichael and his subordinate Chris Flatt in front of the “EUROPEAN AND EXTERNAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE” 20th March 2014
link to scottish.parliament.uk
Carmichael, shifty as ever. Flatt spills the beans about his conversations with other governments diplomats throughout the world. It’s a bit long but interesting.
The Convener: Could the unit furnish the committee with the detail of discussions with a Russian diplomat about Scotland’s independence?
Alistair Carmichael: What Russian diplomat was that?
The Convener: It has been reported that “Itar-Tass, citing a source in the … Prime Minister’s office, said Britain was ‘extremely interested’ in referendum support from Russia”.
The Sunday Herald followed up on that last Sunday and reported that “a member of the FCO’s ‘Devolution Unit’ … briefed a diplomat at the Russian Embassy at Russia’s request”. Could we have information about that?
Alistair Carmichael: What are we being asked to provide? That seems somewhat inchoate.
The Convener: The detail of the conversation that went on.
Alistair Carmichael: You are asking me to provide the detail of conversations between two people, neither of whom you have named.
Chris Flatt: I have briefed an official from the Russian embassy and officials from dozens of other embassies. An interesting element of our position is that we have a lot of interest from around the world in the situation in Scotland, and lots of people come to me to ask what the UK Government’s position is.
When I explain it, I, as a civil servant, set out the UK Government’s position objectively, and I am also careful to explain that the Scottish Government holds a different position. When I briefed the Russian embassy, the diplomat to whom I spoke expressed great surprise at the Sunday Herald’s story on what the Russian news agency had said.
Beyond that, we had a straightforward conversation about what the UK Government is doing. I have had such conversations with officials from Russia, America, Canada, Belgium, the Philippines, Kurdistan and Italy. The list could go on and on, because everyone is interested.
That is a good thing, because it makes Scotland’s position on the world stage much more prominent.
The Convener: Will you furnish the committee with information on all the countries that have been briefed one to one and on the basis for those briefings?
Chris Flatt: Yes—absolutely.
Alistair Carmichael: Actually, I do not know whether it is for us to give an undertaking on that.
The Convener: The majority of the information has been released following freedom of information requests anyway. We would just like the rest of it.
Alistair Carmichael: You have given a wide specification. It is for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to release information on what it has done. I cannot give an undertaking on that.
The Convener: I have to say that I am confused. I am not sure whether, as the Secretary of State for Scotland, you are Scotland’s man in Westminster or Westminster’s man in Scotland.
“Ethnic Brits living in the EU will be allowed to vote.”
I understand not, Rock – only if they’ve been living abroad for less than 15 years. That excludes a lot of resident Brits.
The UK is one of 5 countries being pursued by Viviane Redding of the EU for Denmark, Cyprus, Ireland and Malta.
“More than five million Britons live abroad, but only 20,000 are registered to vote. The Government is not thought to keep track of how many have lost their vote under the clause.
“The right to vote is one of the fundamental political rights of citizenship. It is part of the very fabric of democracy,” said Ms Reding. “Depriving citizens of their right to vote once they move to another EU country is effectively tantamount to punishing citizens for having exercised their right to free movement. Such practices risk making them second-class citizens.”
link to telegraph.co.uk
@ Rock, for somebody with a holiday home in Scotland to be eligible to vote here they would have to have changed their domicile and lost the 10% discount on council tax.
I have a holiday home myself and get the usual postal elegibility enquiry but you can’t vote in two places. It’s not like the old days in Northern Ireland where the slogan was “Vote Early & Vote Often”. 🙂
@ Tamson 10.30
“I remember that from the referendum campaign, which makes me wonder whether he’s been fitted up over this.”
It’s got the same whiff as when Miliband was used by BT, and then Dave come out at 5.30 on the 19th Sept, and stuck it up him with his EVEL speech.
They really are nasty.
@ Fred
Wouldn’t it be possible, for someone sufficiently motivated, to shift their voter registration just for the period including the referendum? They could be confident of there being no other elections after the Euros (apart from a fluke by-election), and once the referendum was over could shift back for the General Election.
Whether anyone did that, or how many did so and what effect it had, I have no idea. On the basis of encounters with a couple of people considering but possibly not actually doing that in order to vote Yes, it should certainly not be assumed that only unionist holiday home owners thought of it. (I have heard third hand about someone sporting numerous “No Thanks” badges who turned out to have her main home in England, but I have no information about where she usually voted.)
Listen – Rock is like a Deerhound, big and shaggy but a dear hound nevertheless, he will keep barking at me and when we get a space again off the main thread I will gladly play ball.
On Carmichael carrying the can, I said earlier that I can’t get my head around why at any point he thought this leak would be a good idea. I do wonder if we have the whole story.
Fit ye ken Wullie.
link to phoenix45.org
Just read the link to the Cabinet Office Enquiry Statement. It’s a total whitewash from start to finish.
Surely if you have Carmichael in front of you and he tells you he gave his SPAd permission to leak a confidential government memo to the press, the first question you are going to ask him is “Did you read the memo?”
The ‘lost in translation’ wheeze allows them to say what they want without fear of libel. Similar to the use of ‘allegedly’ in other MSM smears.
“The row over seating arrangements even prompted Rosie Winterton Labour’s chief whip to allegedly call senior SNP MP, Peter Wishart, the “biggest clown in Parliament.”
The statement: “Senior officials who have worked with him say that he is reliable and has no history of inaccurate reporting, impropriety or security lapses.” is tantamount to calling the French Consul General a liar, as he denied even discussing who would be PM with NS.
I suppose someone could ask GCHQ for an accurate transcript of the telephone call…..maybe the cabinet office?
Swami 11.24
You fly wi the craws,you get shot wi the craws.
No sympathy for anyone who works for Westminster against Scotlands interests.
The fact he describes himself as Scottish first or whatever is meaninless,cheap words.
I havent ever heard him even support substantial new powers for Scotland or federalism,but then he’s a Lib Dem isnt he,dream on.
In some ways I hope he was set up.Maybe it will be a deterrent to other Uncle Toms on the make at Scotlands expense.
@ HandandShrimp
He obviously didn’t realise he was being played.
He thought it would denigrate the SNP and potentially bring votes back to the Dems in Scotland.
But that wasn’t the intention of the memo.
He didn’t realise what it was designed to do.
In addition to my last email re the Enquiry Statement I notice they say:
“There is no evidence of any political motivation or ‘dirty tricks’.”
The quote’s used in reference to the actions of the civil servant, but I’ll bet that the LibDems will offer this as proof that their actions were not politically motivated.
They’re all devious barstewards. If not the remit of the enquiry would have been extended to include reasons why it was released when it was, instead of just how it came to be written and how it got into the public domain.
Robert Peffers @ 9.42 pm
Jings Robert , that program was on last week ( I’m assuming its the same one ) I had to switch it over , couldna thole it ony langer than a few mins .
Thepnr @ 11.17 I recall watching that sequence of events on a video last year , there may be something on U toob ?
Sorry cannot find a bookmark from way back then.
Carmichael behaved despicable and was NOT for co-operating and was being particularly evasive.
On thread , listening to the clip DAVE GRAY starts off really well and the BEEB should take note .
Carmichael , IMO lies in this interview . The investigation started long after both Nicola and the French diplomats confirmed that the memo was incorrect / lies?
Can anyone remember / confirm when the investigation actually began ?
I suspect that the CH 4 lie was broadcast on the Mon or Tues eve
As regards the 2nd question ….. deflection !
3rd question , 14 years bla bla bla. He got well paid , whats he want a long service medal .
The memo was made up , it was a fabrication . Sadly it will not be traced back to source 10 D St , those avenues will already be closed down. I suspect Mundell will scrape away on a get oot o jail card.
Like many on here it makes me mad. These people have no respect for us.
We need to keep an eye out for the funding link in the morning as the time is running out to raise the funds for any action.
@ dakk 12.09
I’ve got no sympathy for him either, or any of the rotten corrupt colluding public or civil servants anywhere.
I just wondered what stunt the Tories would pull at election time, having seen them operate during the IndyRef.
It’s never the same, but it’s always vicious.
The good thing is that it is obvious that a large number of Scots no longer listen to the bullshit “explanations”.
We go and find out the truth for ourselves. Truth is the enemy of the Union. At least we know that now.
“There is no evidence of any political motivation or ‘dirty tricks’.”
It’s been hard to pick a favourite line out of the rank of the civil service enquiry, but I’d have to say that one comes close.
There’s no evidence …
Paula Rose @ 10.34pm
“Yo Rock I’m quite enjoying the cut of your jibe ”
🙂
Thepnr @12.31
Instinctively I think your right Alex, the locals here in my home town last year lapped up Gordon Browns lies in the town hall because hey its Gordon Brown he wouldn’t lie to you, but thats no longer the case, the deep and (hopefully) irreversible switch in the mindset in Lochgelly was a total shock (nice shock) to me,
The people in this town (largely) are not the SNP’s natural allies and the somewhat cool (but hey you cant have everything) reaction from people leaving the polling station on the day of the vote towards me was matched by a complete antipathy towards the Labour people, the feeling I get is we have work to do to prove ourselves but the door was opened wide when they kicked the Labour candidate squarely in the nuts.
The games afoot.
link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
“That great Labour Secretary of State for Scotland, Tom Johnston, brought hydro power to the glens and affordable electricity to our homes. LibDem Secretary of State for Scotland, Alistair Carmichael, did nothing to further our renewable opportunity, indeed it is arguable that he has overseen an era in which inaction on interconnectors has done real and lasting economic damage to the islands he is meant to represent and particularly to his home island of Orkney.”
“Pants on fire”
@ John and Thepnr
I agree, there is a sea change in attitude and the drift has started in earnest. Has to be said that their own short-termist political strategy has been of some use in this area. Using Scotland as a stick to beat Labour with, taking Labour’s own anti-SNP tactics and letting the right wing press run amok, allowing the Lords and Commons politicians to fire anti Scottish and SNP sound bites at the massed media. All of that has simply provided a clued up electorate a panoramic view of just how Westminster government manipulates perceptions to achieve a favourable outcome to an agenda, regardless of collateral damage to the society in their care.
I’m sure its been a rude wake up call for many people, but sometimes the only way you can prove the truth of a thing to people is to let them see for themselves. No amount of reasoned arguments worked with a relevant percentage of people during the referendum, they wanted to hope for the best within the union and still had some trust in their elected establishment representatives that a better devolution was possible. It was of course never possible. Westminster doesn’t give up its sovereignty, it merely loans powers and responsibilities for political advantage whilst retaining total control of all revenue and resource. Its power structure is securely weighted in top down responsibility and the bottom of that food chain is the electorate themselves.
People needed to see the farce that was the Smith commission fudge happen. They needed to see those representatives water down submissions that the people themselves had made. They needed to see the Lords bring even those proposals to a screeching halt and watch a Conservative/Liberal government propose UK legislation which would effectively remove Scottish voices from real decision making areas. They had to see those £30bn worth of cuts ratified by their own representatives and know that more was to follow. Finally they had to see for themselves how a cabinet minister could abuse his post and authority in a conspiracy to defame their own First Minister and manipulate their perceptions and their voting intention by using an extremely compliant media and several blatant lies.
To think that had this been even ten years ago, no one would have batted an eye. They’d have taken it as read that what they had been told was nothing but the truth with the channels involved. Today? Well today the whole sorry show had been debunked within hours and both a ministerial office, cross party politicians and the media called into disrepute and held to account by, not official channels, but the public themselves. The interwebby and social media leaves these people nowhere to hide and this visibility and speed of social communication is what is the tipping point for this sorry form of government.
Tick tock guys. 😉
@ crazycat, anent change of domicile, I imagine they would still lose their Council Tax Discount for that year so an expensive vote, at least £200? Are people permitted to “flip” their permanent residence, Alister Darling style?
G4eepers, Carmichael is from Islay I believe so no Orcadian.
Fred,
“I imagine they would still lose their Council Tax Discount for that year so an expensive vote, at least £200? Are people permitted to “flip” their permanent residence, Alister Darling style?”
Most of those who own holiday homes in Scotland would be the Brit Nats who wouldn’t mind much about losing some money to keep Scotland within the rotten union.
And they would have been encouraged by the Brit Nat propaganda from South Britain and from Pravda GB.
I believe every single loophole from postal votes onwards was exploited to rig the referendum.
Loads of dead people too must have voted No for them to reach 55%.
Paula Rose,
“Listen – Rock is like a Deerhound, big and shaggy but a dear hound nevertheless, he will keep barking at me and when we get a space again off the main thread I will gladly play ball”
I am only holding you to account for your hypocrisy as a Green in cheering an SNP landslide on this site while at the same time defending the Greens for standing candidates against the SNP and trying to hinder them.
It seems beyond you to admit that under the circumstances, the Scottish Greens were totally out of order for standing candidates against the SNP in an undemocratic Westminster election where they themselves had a zero chance of winning in any constituency.
Shaggy Dog Story. 🙂