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Nursing a grievance

Posted on May 23, 2017 by

(NB The media is understandably mostly occupied today with the horrific events in Manchester. But life goes on – music websites are still talking about music, football websites are still talking about football, videogames websites are still talking about videogames. Any rational observations about terrorism made here would be screamed down as making political capital from tragedy. So let’s get on with the day job.)

If you apply to go on a televised political debate and then submit a question to ask a national leader, it seems a reasonable deduction that you want that issue to be raised and discussed. If you also make it personal by describing your own circumstances, it seems logical that you’d want those circumstances to be widely publicised, and to be asked about them so you could say more and tell your story to the country.

So it’s a bit odd that Edinburgh nurse Claire Austin has suddenly gone off the radar.

Posts on her Facebook page have vanished, such as the one where she called Nicola Sturgeon “wee Jimmy Krankie”. There are now only two posts visible for the whole of 2017, and the account is locked so that only her friends can comment.

Her Instagram account, on which social media users and the press found a number of pictures which raised questions about whether she really was struggling financially, has also been locked down.

And her Twitter feed is all but silent, save for a tweet claiming that an article in the Scottish Sun about her yesterday was in some unspecified way untruthful, despite it consisting mainly of her own tweets and pictures.

Last night’s Reporting Scotland devoted a hefty four-and-a-half minutes to Ms Austin’s comments and the wider issue of nurse’s pay and foodbank use, but we didn’t get to hear from Ms Austin herself.

Just ten seconds were taken up with reporter Shelley Jofre paraphrasing what she’d apparently said to her – that Claire Austin had been referred to foodbanks twice in a five-year period, at unspecified times and in “very specific circumstances” which oddly then aren’t actually specified for viewers.

That in itself sounds like the issue was temporary and personal to Ms Austin rather than being an intrinsic problem of all nurses being inadequately paid. The clip goes on to point out that the starting salary for Scottish nurses of £22,440 is £5,340 above what the Joseph Rowntree Foundation considers a liveable wage.

Yet the package also noted that the Royal College of Nursing in Scotland “can’t point to any specific cases of nurses using foodbanks”, and that the Trussell Trust – which runs by far the largest number in the UK, thought to be around half – “haven’t heard of any nurses using their foodbanks”.

We’re casting no doubt on Claire Austin’s story. We’re happy to believe that she may have used a foodbank a couple of times in the past due to personal circumstances that are none of our business. But her broader assertion that either she, or nurses in general, have to do so on a regular basis as a result of the policies of the Scottish Government doesn’t appear to be holding up very well under scrutiny.

Having originally missed the story because the debate was too late for their Monday editions, the Scottish press has leapt hungrily on it today, in particular a single tweet from SNP MP Joanna Cherry quoting a rumour that Austin might be the wife of a Tory councillor, which Cherry had swiftly retracted and apologised directly to her for:

Yet while most people protesting about things complain that they DON’T get a media platform to air their grievance, and despite having gone on two BBC politics shows in the space of a few days to make her point, and with a veritable army of sympathetic hacks beating on her door to give her a voice to bash “wee Jimmy Krankie” and the SNP with, Claire Austin suddenly seems strangely reluctant to talk about it.

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    559 to “Nursing a grievance”

    1. admiral says:

      Interesting that saying someone is related to a Tory now constitutes a “smear” and not a mistake.

      I always thought a smear was calling someone a liar, a hypocrite or a thief or something else similarly disreputable.

    2. HandandShrimp says:

      To be fair, to be accused of being married to a Tory politician is a pretty vicious smear. It is almost the same as saying someone assisted Brady in his murders.

      Or is it? :/

    3. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Poor cow must’ve realised she’s a stooge.

    4. FTDmail says:

      Typical. The Unionists don’t take issue with the other half of the story. I’m not surprised at all. As for Ms Austin disappearing. You can’t just go on TV and make claims only to go into hiding and not back them up. It just reinforces opinions that many will have about her motivations, right or wrong.

    5. TheWasp says:

      The nurse is just a pawn, forget her and ask her bbc handlers about the reinvitation and her frankly off topic question. Answers from S Smith and the plantation quay crew are what is needed now.

      The bbc should be called out now as their establishment bias is now beyond a joke. In my opinion an SNP statement concerning broadcasting in Scotland is essential immediately

    6. bobajock says:

      Take the shilling, take the consequences.

    7. Peter says:

      Many people would use your definition of a smear to describe a Tory.

    8. Grouse Beater says:

      A well orchestrated stunt in the middle of an election – BBC ‘somehow’ a participant.

    9. She is so obviously a Tory/unionist/BritNat plant.
      The higher profile characters in the SNP need to stop apologising all the time and call the BBC out on this stuff the way you continuely do on here, otherwise we are only talking to ourselves.
      I appreciate the SNP, of which I am a member, are the party of government and believe they have to be seen to represent everyone the govern but the continuing rolling over to get there tummy tickled is really starting to annoy me.
      They need to set the agenda instead of always having to react to it.
      We all know on here that the real opposition to and enemy of Scottish Independence is the BBC followed by the rest of the MSM, the SNP MUST know that too, surely???
      Gloves off please and start calling them out every time they do this and then maybe the unenlightened will start to get the message too.
      Keep up the good work Stu!!!

    10. Thepnr says:

      This is not about the nurse but about the state of the media in the UK. Absolutely no scrutiny of the claims made by the nurse under what circumstances forced her to have to use foodbanks but instead all about the “nasty” SNP and the smears on social media of a poor innocent nurse.

      I believe that she is innocent in the sense of being gullible and naive to have allowed the BBC to use her in they way they did at the leaders debate.

      I think that this whole story is a perfect example of how news is manipulated into state propaganda as the results above show. The truth doesn’t matter at all, no instead manufactured headlines brought about by a guest in a BBC audience specifically invited by the BBC show as she could ask the question that they specifically planned to smear the SNP with.

      There are other examples out there of exactly the same tactics being used in the past. We all know how difficult it is to get on these programs which are broadcast nationally.

      The audience is literally handpicked so no one ends up there by accident. Fucking disgrace.

    11. Graham Ballantyne says:

      “So, BBC Scotland, what was it about the Sturgeon-hating nurse Clair Austin that made you invite her back a second time to one of to your debate programmes?”

      PS Interesting that it’s apparently now a vile slur to misdescribe someone as being married to a Tory coucillor.

    12. One_Scot says:

      My opinion for what it’s worth. I don’t believe she is the type of person who would be seen within a one mile radius of a foodbank.

      If she really wanted to get one over on us nasty fact finding SNP supporters, I’m sure she would be more than happy to put us in our place by providing details of her foodbank usage, rather than pulling up the draw bridge.

    13. Chas says:

      I’m sure you won’t, but don’t let this one go into the forgotten pile. The nurse story is just part of the wider reality that was the bbc stitch-up of the FM for the sole purpose of influencing a general election.

      It should be the biggest story of the year but the media are ignoring it for obvious reasons of complicity.

    14. Stravaiger says:

      “Nats and Ultranats”

      What’s an Ultranat? How do I get to be one? Sounds awesome!

    15. Desimond says:

      Its the Evolution of Independence

      Nats -> CyberNats -> UltraNats

      Whats next? GigaNats?

    16. Heehawbaws says:

      Wow. The Express is the most reasonable headline in there.

    17. Alibi says:

      The story here is not really a political activist trying to have a go at the FM. The story is, or should be, that BBC Scotland is facilitating the asking of a question that is fairly irrelevant to the UK election campaign and is simply an attempt to say SNP bad. Facilitating to thecextent that she was specifically invited following QT where her question was not put. Why was this done? Does BBC Scotland have a remit to editorialise its programmes in this way? Why no corresponding questions designed to attack Rape Clause Ruth or the other parties?

    18. Dr Jim says:

      If the Tories were daft enough to create this stushie and got found out all hell would break loose
      That’s why if it is a creation it’s more likely to have been the apprentice Tories who would carry out the dirty work for their Massas

      The Labour lot have form for this, 2014 lest we forget

      But then again it may be the woman just had a wee agenda of her own in which case, she has to answer like the rest of us would if we went on the Telly and made accusations or complaints, call it what you will

      How can a thing be fixed if you won’t tell us what happened
      if you don’t it’s like shouting FIRE and running away

      God help the woman if the papers find out something’s not right they’ll crucify her
      Which is really what newspapers like to do anyway

      Build up, Smash down

    19. Dr Jim says:

      Willie Rennie called us Ultra Extremists in the Holyrood chamber one time

      That was a good one

    20. David Caledonia says:

      The woman is a liar full stop, you would never get food from a foodbank if you where earning over 20 grand a year, you have to be passed on to the foodbank after stating why you need to use it and giving your circumstances, i am on a pension, i could apply but don’t, and i live on just over 7 grand a year, as i said the woman is a liar

    21. R. Russell says:

      Have any of these so called reporters of the anti SNP press actually looked in this nurses claims or are they more interested in a good bash the SNP story. I KNOW WHAT I THINK.

    22. gordoz says:

      Ahem ..

      What has Sarah Smith – BBC Scotland Editor had to say on the issue ???

      This is ‘clearly’ a non political issue so should should be able to comment ?

    23. Anagach says:

      She was invited to launch an attack, not a particularly rational
      one or one that holds up to any analysis.

      But now there is an opening to throw mud and the press are
      throwing for all they are worth.

    24. heedtracker says:

      Wow, is all, just wow! UK hacks are beyond shameless. It wasnt just Ms Austin though. There were various angry people in the audience, angrily demand Sturgeon take indy ref2 “off the table” now or how to fill your £15 bn “black hole” of independence Sturgeon and so on. All highly articulate and vocal, well rehearsed and neatly spaced out, both in the room and in the debate.

    25. mosstrooper says:

      If you poke a wasp or hornet’s byke with a stick expect to be stung. It then is a a bit rich to complain and blame the wasps for your actions. This person sought her Andy Warhol moment in the limelight only to discover that it morphed into a spotlight.
      What annoys me more than anything this person has said is the way she has in effect besmirched the nursing profession. Shame on her, she knew what she was doing so suck it up.

    26. Dan Huil says:

      Hypocrisy from the Sun [surprise!] since they were extremely gleeful to publish these New York pictures.

      Just the usual britnat BS from the bbc. Who are they kidding? There can’t be that many gullible folks in Scotland by now. The bbc in Scotland is finished.

    27. Capella says:

      Striking similarity to the Claire Lally episode. Even including the condemnation of an innocent SNP related tweet. In that instance the “smear” was the suggestion she was related to Pat Lally. Again – why is that a “smear” rather than a simple mistake?

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/voters-less-ordinary/

      Didn’t the BBC reporter Nick Eardley tweet the “smear” too, then delete it?
      IMO Claire Austin was the patsy in a BBC set-up designed to embarrass Nicola Sturgeon.
      Another one for the political investigator’s casebook.

    28. winifred McCartney says:

      How is it that labour and others support £10 per hour living wage, which they say is enough to live one and which amounts to £24,000 working 50 hours per week but KD can shout ‘she can’t feed her family’ at NS even though she promotes £10 per hour. In some ways the minimum wage has made things worse for the badly paid since it is now acceptable that this is the rate to be paid. It should not be acceptable if it means people need to use foodbanks. But not a word about that or the seeming life style of this foodbank user which calls into question the lifestyle of everyone using a foodbank and is a terrible disgrace if people look at this and decide not to contribute to foodbanks which are absolutely essential for many.
      There are many discrepancies in this story not least the part played by Sarah Smith and the BBC but as usual it is just snp baaad and no mention of yoonnuts.

    29. Albert Herring says:

      “Nats -> CyberNats -> UltraNats”

      Astronat?

    30. Free Scotland says:

      If Sarah Smith had been operating as part of a principled, fair, and impartial broadcasting organisation *(cough)*, the question would have been shut down politely with a reminder that the debate was under the banner of a GENERAL ELECTION and that devolved issues were for another day. Also, the fact that the nurse seemed to be under the impression that Queen Nicola (long may she reign) had a seat at Westminster shows just how uninformed some members of the public really are.

    31. Tackety Beets says:

      I thought Neil Mackay@neilmackay was good/quick tweeting this at time on Monday eve.

      “I’d love to get an interview with that nurse in the @newsundayherald #LeadersDebate …”

      So there you go Claire speak to Neil and put your side of the story.

      I’m ,like many 1000s of folk, managing my finances on a much lower income. Perhalps not easy but doo-able …cut yer cloot etc etc

    32. Tony Little says:

      I came to the conclusion that she naively trusted the BBC to give her a question about nurses pay (which she may well feel angry about, and no doubt she feels other nurses are also struggling with their own situations) and allowed herself to over-egg the story (perhaps with a bit of “encouragement” from BBC hacks?)

      I am also sure she certainly didn’t expect the shit-storm, probably being told by the same BBC hacks that they would push her story all the way and she was “in the right”. But she pushed it too far and presented a picture of herself that was easy to be ‘misunderstood’ by casual viewers.

      Notwithstanding her role in this drama, there is no excuse for hounding her on FB, Twitter etc. And the over-reaction (understandable though it is) should be focused on the BBC and not directly at the Nurse. She doesn’t like the SNP or NS (it seems) but she is entitled to hold her views.

      In my view the BBC saw an opportunity to divert attention from the Tory non-campaign and get one over on Nicola Sturgeon. They miscalculated and the social media backlash (and EVEN a couple of Scottish papers) quickly undermined their “coup”.

      Time to aim at the real enemy. The BBC.

    33. Madcatwumman says:

      This makes me so mad!

      The point she was trying to make was valid! Yes! There are nurses who are struggling to live on the wage. If you look into nursing – lots of nurses started out as ‘mature’ students – ie they already have families to support when they start their training.

      They get a bursary in Scotland ( not much to live on, never mind with kids). By the time they qualify they often have large debts ( run up while on a bursary – just to survive).

      Nursing training is 45 weeks of the year – 13 weeks longer than most uni courses- half of the 3 yr course is spent working 37.5hr weeks ( unpaid) on placement. Childcare costs have to be paid ( they have to do full shifts).

      Once qualified – they still have to be paid. You also have to go in and do training in your own time. If you work in a hospital that’s got private parking you also have to pay extortionate parking charges ( or public transport charges). Everyone knows how much rent, food, electric etc already is.

      Nursing is a tough job ( as, I’m sure are others) but it’s continuously physically, mentally and emotionally draining and it eats into any life you have as you work very unsocial hours. You spend your entire working life continuously reassessing and re-evaluating your worth and if you did everything you could do for everyone you treat.
      The money is good in comparison to other jobs ( which don’t take over your entire life) but poor for what you are expected to give.

      You are NEVER off duty. If you see someone in distress you can’t walk on by – doing so could cost you your registration.

      This woman is not a good example of a nurse. She has intentionally misled in order to try to score points off the FM. She lives in a very affluent area of Edinburgh, chose to send her child to private school, allegedly works in an agency ( or three different ones according to her LinkedIn) – so she can pick and choose when to work, she gets more wages ( not on Bank but yes on agency).

      She lied about Scottish nurses being on strike – we aren’t. We haven’t even been balloted for strike action yet ( although we have been balloted on the route to take re: pay and conditions.

      She was disingenuous in her representation. She has done irreparable damage to the real NHS nurses who DO struggle.

      I agree that the govt should appear unannounced – giving advance warning gets the paint pots out and hides the real struggle on the wards to deliver safe care with poor staffing and equipment.

      I think the Scottish govt would do well to actually speak to nurses on the floor rather than to ‘senior’ or management level nurses.

      Pay is negotiated by govt and unions at UK level – the unions want it this way ( to try to keep parity of pay and to prevent unscrupulous trusts from cutting pay and creating a race to the bottom).
      Apparently one Union is the main block to Scottish negotiations as they wont agree to local pay in order to prevent opening the door for this in England.

      It is completely false to have a go at the FM when it’s the unions preventing her from being able to increase pay for Scottish nurses! Logically, it’s in her interests to do this as there would never be a vacancy unfilled in Scotland.

      I don’t agree with picking and pouring over anyone’s lives – but this lady invited the dogs in and now cannot complain when they crap on her carpet and call her out on any lies she has told.

      Are we not allowed to question someone’s ( very obviously untrue) versions of events now?. I’m not a ‘cyber nat’ or ‘ultranat’ ( not sure what qualifies you to be one!) but I 100% call her out on the lies she told.

      It’s such a shame she couldn’t put honesty and integrity above trying to score cheap points off of the FM. She has brought herself and her profession into disrepute. Nurses have to be seen to be honest. Who would trust a dishonest nurse to look after them?

      I’ve nursed for the best part of two decades – I trained with young kids and a house to run. I managed on well under a quarter of the pay I get now. I didn’t end up in debt because I did without and spent a while living on pasta. Now on over 4 times that amount of money – I don’t run a car, I don’t go on holidays, I can’t afford to help my kids ( I earn more than the threshold for help with uni costs). I manage ( just). But it only takes one appliance to break or one big bill before I really struggle. I don’t have fancy electrical kit, I don’t wear designer clothes. I’m like most other folk – I just get by. I could never afford to go on holiday to New York – because I couldn’t afford the outlay for a passport.

      By all means – raise the very valid points she had buried in the attempted shakedown of the FM – but be honest while you do it – and raise it with the correct people! Otherwise you just undermine the rest of us.

    34. David Caledonia says:

      And btw, i pay a contribution to my mortgage of £58 a month, i don’t get housing benefit, i have to use my pension for all repairs to my house which i am ok with, i am good at repairing houses, my monthly mortgage is about 80 quid, the only reason i bought my house was to get away from Inverclyde labour council, getting anything done by that crowd of incompetents was hopeless, they once sent two joiners to my door as my roof was leaking, the two young guys went up the loft to have a look, nothing we can do there they said, its to big a job, whole roof needs done, i asked what do you usually do if you find a leak, we usually just put a bit of polythene under it they said, i complained to the ombudsman many times about this, the letter back from the ombudsman quoted the inspector saying that i had refused to let the joiners into my loft, gave up with the ombudsman, in fact we might as well not have a housing ombudsman if that’s his ruling on the issue, yes folks we live in a crazy world

    35. Dan Huil says:

      Astronat?

      For those of you with long memories… # I’m a lumbernat and I’m okay…#

    36. PhilM says:

      Is Chris Findlay any relation to Neil Findlay MSP?

    37. crazycat says:

      @ winifred McCartney

      Now that’s an interesting thought – Joanna Cherry is castigated for believing the nurse to be married to a Tory, but Kezia Dugdale can get away with “she can’t feed her family” when the woman has only been to a foodbank twice in 5 years.

      Both misunderstandings (I’m being generous to KD here and assuming she had no prior knowledge), but only one is a “smear” that needs to be withdrawn and apologized for.

    38. heedtracker says:

      If its BBC Scotland, its all a set up.

      Even in their press “spin” room they had Severin Carrell of the Graun. Graun’s got an almost total Scottish blackout on any actual Scottish news, of any kind, let alone a highly aggressive anti Scottish democracy and SNP bias.

      And yet there’s their man in Scotland Severin, chuntering away, SNP bad, live in the BBC Scotland press spin room. To be fair, at least Seve had the decency to look shifty, or he’d eaten something that disagreed with his constitution at the buffet.

    39. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Have any of these so called reporters of the anti SNP press actually looked in this nurses claims or are they more interested in a good bash the SNP story. I KNOW WHAT I THINK.”

      In fairness, quite a few seem to have asked her for comment but been refused.

    40. David Caledonia says:

      THere is a saying, If a lie is told long enough it becomes and accepted truth, so it has to be challenged, she is a liar, let me repeat that again, she is a liar, if she was ever referred to a foodbank she must have hid her true circumstances from the people who referred her, that should be invesyigated as that is a basic case of fraud i would think

    41. Robert Roddick says:

      Dearie is there no one in the Unionist press with just a soupcon of credibility or indeed shame in this instance. I saw the programme. I witnessed Nicola Sturgeon giving a straight forward appraisal of the situation and indeed actually agreed with this woman concerning nurses pay. Clearly someone who knew her outed her and there followed information totally destroying this woman’s credibility, mostly provided by herself. The BBC should set the record straight and apologise to the First Minister.

    42. Does anyone know who or what generated the first tweet/FB that said she was related to a Tory?

      Nick Eardley,
      Political correspondent BBC News,said it was from an SNP Briefing,

      Nick Eardley?Verified account @nickeardleybbc May 21
      More
      SNP briefing that nurse is Tory councillor’s wife.

      clearly stating it was a party briefing not an individuals opinion,

      he or his employers the BBC as far as i know have not apologised to the SNP for his/their error.

    43. Liz White says:

      The question the nurse asked should have been aimed at Ruth Davidson after all it was her party that introduced the cap. Ruth stood there while Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP felt the sharp end of the woman’s tongue and said absolutely nothing.

      Nicola missed an own goal there as she could have said I cannot say why the cap was introduced because it was a Tory decision and you would have to ask Ruth why the cap has been enforced on nurses pay.

      She could have then continued and said that employment law and the national wage are a reserved matter for Westminster and all the SNP can do is ensure that our nurses don’t suffer as badly as the nurses in England and Wales.

    44. CapnAndy. says:

      Spooks at work.
      The whole thing seems to have been very well organised, from the attention given to Ms Austin, the time it took for Facebook and twitter to start saying she was the wife of a Tory councillor to the howls of anguish from Yoon collective. As one poster has said, she’ll be dumped now.
      UltraNat is a new one on me. What the heck is an UltraNat?
      However, lesson learnt and I’m sure we’ll all be more careful.

    45. Thepnr says:

      @Madcatwumman

      Thank you for that absolutely brilliant post that says it better than anyone else could have even attempted. Real honesty from a real person talking from the heart.

      I hope Nicola Sturgeon reads your post I really do.

    46. geeo says:

      Is there not another Scottish leaders debate pending on STV soon ?

      Wee opportunity for Nicola to put a few folk right.

    47. heedtracker says:

      All medical professions are bound to conduct themselves with the same levels of ethics professionalism outside of their work, as they are at their work. Ofcourse, all professions are, bar hacks. There are clear codes, standards of conduct, performance and ethics. If you breach, them and you get found out, you get investigated, for all kinds of professional reasons.

      Its certainly not unreasonable to be asked to show proof, that a salaried nursing professional has been “referred to foodbanks twice in a five-year period.” And its even less unreasonable to ask for proof that “nurses in general, have to do so on a regular basis.” Especially if you’ve sat in a BBC tv debate audience and told all the viewers.

      Its of extreme public concern and the NHS and the RCN needed to be asked.

    48. Samuel A Rennie says:

      My partner is a nurse and we were both watching the debate live. I also work as a health care assistant for N.H.S Scotland. We both turned to each other when she stated that she used food banks in disbelief. If she had used a foodbank its through her own financial mismanagement.

    49. mike d says:

      Ultranats,how about a supernovanat?

    50. heedtracker says:

      https://www.nursingtimes.net/clinical-archive/the-nmc-code-conduct-performance-and-ethics/5035067.article

      “Be open and honest, act with integrity and uphold the reputation of your profession

      As a nurse you have a responsibility to uphold the reputation of the profession at all times. This applies equally whether you work directly with patients and service users or in other environments such as education, research or policy development. It also applies to your behaviour and conduct outside the workplace.”

      No idea if you can bring the nursing profession in to disrepute by lying in public about your own circumstances or that of your colleagues, but there was also a clear announcement that nurses are going in strike for better pay, on Sunday night.

    51. Just watched a Frankie Boyle clip from a few years back on BBC bias.
      He makes a comment on how they require a really stupid audience to get away with what the do, millions of people sitting open mouthed watching dancing dogs on the telly as if it’s the most important thing in the world.
      Thankfully our population of stupid people is shrinking but the immutably content still number far to many.
      The effects of Brexit can’t come quick enough to wake the up, cause only when something hurts them personally will they ever change.
      Can’t wait to watch the Beeb when the shit is hitting their fan.

    52. BrianW says:

      Whether or not these situations are engineered or not, I find it more telling that within a matter of hours details emerge which debunk the manner in which the situation arose and the context behind it (some right and some wrong)

      I imagine the agenda/running order of the debates is tightly controlled by TV Producers/Execs. They decide who gets to ask what and when depending on a running order and of course what narrative is to be portrayed/followed. These Debates aren’t organic in nature where every Tom, Dick or Harry can ask a question. That approach would be very risky for any Producer/Exec.

      It’s a highly controlled environment where every Claire, Eric and Clare (Eric Holford on BBQT and Clare Lally, Ordinary Mum) is invited to smear the current administration , sorry, give the Broadcaster a modicum of balance and impartiality.

    53. Macart says:

      The UK media doing what they do best… 🙄

    54. orri says:

      OK so she was a member of Unison on a mission being advised by a union official to put a question to the panel and not directly to Nicola Sturgeon. She was coached, given pointers, and given her speaking for all nurses bullcrap seems particularly tetchy about getting taken to task by other nurses on her Facebook page.

      So a Labour, not Conservative, attack on someone who’s only answer to it could be that as the cap was imposed by Westminster then the only way to oppose it would be to elect MPs to Westminster who would be able to do so. The argument might then have moved on to a stouthearted claim by all the unionist candidates that none of them would ever contemplate listening to the SNP on anything regardless of how sensible that might be, although Labour might steal it a decade later.

      Regardless of which one of the many reasons someone might fall on hard times would be long term illness. The kind of thing Ruth Davidson and her re-introduction of prescription charges would make even worse. Never mind the past week where the BBC was bigging up the “gig” economy which sound like a re-branding of self employment with all the lack of sickness cover and holiday entitlement inherent in it. A bit like nurses on the Nurse Bank should it come to it.

    55. Ian McCubbin says:

      I agree with the wasp, the nurse is a pawn used by BBC to further their smearing of SNP and trying to trap the FM.
      It gave Tory elite backed press the story they wanted to discredit SNP SON as part of political campaign to support Tories.
      So it is no sureprise now she has gone into hiding given it took less than 30 mins for SM sharp people to spot her and circulate whobshe really was and how much she eearned and her life style.
      All of which was freely available from her own sites.
      Lets hope she learns from this to not be used for others ends.

    56. chris kilby says:

      Anyone who has a personalised numberplate is a dick.

    57. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Liz White @ 12.40pm

      You made some very-good and very-fair points there Liz. The problem is, the MSM and in particular the BBC has carte blanche to say what they like and smear as they like.

      I agree, the SNP ought to take the gloves off and get stuck into the BBC and the Unionist media – except, if they do that, the SNP will be the bad guys, their opponents will spin it around that way.

      To give you an example: 50-years ago, Celtic won the European Cup, by playing open, exciting, attacking football. They were everyone’s heroes.

      Then, they got into the World Club Champions final against Racing Club of Buenos Aires. The Argentinians knew they could not live with Celtic when it came to football, so, they set about kicking them off the park.

      Remember, Ronnie Simpson was stoned as he warmed-up and had to be replaced. The game was tied after two legs, and went to a third game. Still the Racing Club players spent more time kicking Celtic players than the ball.

      Eventually, realising they were getting no protection from the referee the Celtic guys decided to give as good as they got and began kicking them back.

      The outcome, Celtic were vilified, they had disgraced Scottish football. To some, they were the thugs.

      It aint easy playing by the rules and being the guys in the white hats.

    58. arthur thomson says:

      We know that the BBC is working for the British State against the independence movement. We know that the rest of the media are doing likewise. So this is just another non-story designed to give more solace to those who oppose independence and need a justification for their choice.

      Nobody in their right mind doesn’t smell the bad smell. Those who want to will use it to confirm their faux outrage about the independence movement. The rest of the world will shake their heads in wonder at the level to which the BBC has been exposed.

    59. Brian McHugh says:

      1000 k kilonat
      10002 M meganat
      10003 G giganat
      10004 T teranat
      10005 P petanat
      10006 E exanat
      10007 Z zettanat
      10008 Y yottanat

      Still goals to achieve 🙂

    60. gus1940 says:

      The Nurse’s apparent disappearance is a bit reminiscent of the perpetrator of The Great Kirkcaldy Egg Massacre of 2014 starring Jim Murphy which was a blatant BT set-up job with cameraman perfectly placed to film the dastardly deed.

      The perp having done his job of setting-up an attempt at an anti-SNP smear disappeared from the face of the earth never to be heard of or from again without saying a word to anybody except for a statement in court from his agent/lawyer that he was an SNP supporter.

      Funnily enough on that occasion uncharacteristically none of our wonderful media were remotely inclined to follow up
      on the guy to get more info and perhaps an interview.

      No photos no nothing about the guy.

    61. sassenach says:

      O/T

      Good God, just seen that the ‘Poisoned Dwarf’ has now become Leader of Dumfries council – yikes!

    62. Conan the Librarian says:

      Ultra, and ultras lead by word association to violent football fans, so you can be sure the word was not picked at random – supernat – sounds so much friendlier.

    63. I’m sick fed up talking about this woman.
      She is of no consequence
      The hour and a half Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Sturgeon orchestrated by the Sarah Smith, the London enforcer, the BBC, and the assembled Yoon Hacks in the Spin Room is the story. A Free Press, Free Speech, and democracy died on Sunday night.
      It was an outrageous declaration by the UK Establishment.
      Scotland, down on your knees, you are, and always will be a colony of England.

    64. Artyhetty says:

      The dreadful thing about this is also the fact that the press are not condemning the tory government’s disgusting attacks on the poorest, most vulnerable members of our society. Tory criminals, even one of them using a term, ‘low value’ to describe people! In 2017, not 1817, or even 1917.

      These tory owned tory controlled, disgusting daily lying rags are not bothered about the poor or those who are destitute and who need to use foodbanks. They are complicit in creating divide, in driving hatred forward between people at any opportunity.

      The nurse needs to clarify her position because to say you need a foodbank, if you don’t, for political point scoring or for your own gain, is stooping pretty low, and an insult to those that do need to use the tory government style of so called ‘welfare’.

    65. arthur thomson says:

      @ Socrates MacSporran 1.11pm

      Spot on.

    66. Dr Jim says:

      Politicking suspended says Mrs May as she proceeds to politic in true Britnat style

      Eh, and does somebody want to tell the Liberal Democrat leaflet activists in Bishopbriggs today as they deliver their STOP the SNP newsletters

    67. Scott says:

      How about this one try double speak.

      Apply to get on BBC tell them your anti SNP question and when you get your chance ask a totally different question like what do the panel think of the rape clause I bet S Smith would crap herself what could she do stop the person or would there be a technical problem just at that time.
      Just a thought on my part it would show up the BBC for what they are.
      I hope I don’t get that nurse if I have to go into hospital.

    68. Dpict says:

      Albert Herring says:
      23 May, 2017 at 12:19 pm

      (“Nats -> CyberNats -> UltraNats”

      Astronat?)

      Ok i’ll bite.

      Centinats, Kilonats, Meganats, Giganats, Ubernats…..

      On reading this latest false flag type attack i just graduated from Fearnat to Dreadnat. I’m (almost) beyond caring now.

      It’s a shame i cant just hibernate until it’s all over.

    69. Vestas says:

      I’m impressed how quickly the nurse’s story was torn to shreds in terms of credibility when compared to similar events in 2014.

      We reap what we sow – she clearly wanted her 15 minutes of fame & now she’s got it. Just not in the way she expected 🙂

      Another nail in the coffin of BBC Scotland.

    70. FIONA TOMANY says:

      shw is no need of a food bank but a health farm juding by the size of her too many

    71. a supporter says:

      To Wings: I posted the following tweet almost 1 hour ago and it has not appeared. Why?

      Claire Austin was no patsy. She was clearly well primed for her attack on the FM, which she pursued in an offensive and rude manner. She’d obviously been rehearsing for days. I’ll bet she is a well in with the bricks Tory activist who was very willing to collude with the BBC in an attack on NS and the SG.

      And BBC’s excuses are laughable. EVERYONE on a BBC ‘debate’ show and the audience questions thereon are vetted and discussed by the editorial team to the nth degree beforehand to get the best out of them to fit the BBC’s agenda. So it’s ridiculous of BBC to claim the audience picked the questions about devolved matters instead of Westminster issues. BBC picked the questions from the bundle it would have received from applicants to appear on the show. Our Claire admitted she was asked back from QT by the BBC clearly because her question, which the BBC knew of, suited its purpose.

    72. Cuilean says:

      I did not watch the show (as after the Indyref attacks on the SNP by the BBC, I knew this would be another gang up on NS attack) but after all the nurse hulla-ballou, I watched parts of the show online.

      The false premise of a starving nurse in Scotland was clearly rigged and known about in advance by Mesdames Bird & Smith.We all know now that she was invited back onto the Bird & Smith Show to have a pop at the SNP yet this is how Bird falsifies that the nurse’s attack came out of the blue as follows:

      At end of the show Smith hands back to spin room and Jackie Bird. Bearing in mind that the nurse was invited on by Mesdames Bird & Smith ONLY to attack the SNP leader, Bird lies through her teeth that this was all as much an unexpected surprise to her and Smith as it was to our First Minister.

      I have transcribed Bird’s false narrative in the show’s closing remarks in the spin room as follows:

      Bird: The most memorable moment of the night certainly was the nurse who really gave Nicola Sturgeon a much more difficult time than the politicians did on the panel tonight. It was the nurse who talked about not being able to afford food on the salary of a nurse and really brought the point home over an extended period. I’ve never seen Nicola Sturgeon looking quite as uncomfortable on TV before.

      David Clegg makes some comments then Bird is back to her anti Nicola Sturgeon/ starving nurse narrative, as follows:

      Jackie Bird: I think that’s what is so good about debates like this, because you don’t know what is going to happen and often something very nuanced and personal can turn it.

      Torrance leaps to the BBC’s defence at this point as the complaints have already started that this show was not a debate about any reserved matters, i.e. anti-SNP. Torrance clearly wants invited back onto the BBC so sucks up to Bird big time with the following excuses why this was not a Westminster election debate at all as follows:

      David Torrance: And all the more effective coming from someone in the audience rather than another party leader. But it also shows you how jumbled up different policy responsibilities get, in elections these days. You know in the era of devolution people no longer differentiate adequately between devolved responsibilities like health and education and reserved issues. Which is, after all, what UK elections are all about. It just gets bundled up into the same mix and perhaps we shouldn’t even bother trying in this context, because it does not seem the voters do.

      Bird then turns to Richard Walker of the National.
      Bird: Richard Walker, who do you think performed best?

      Richard Walker: I think Nicola Sturgeon performed best. Certainly a clear winner in the first half. Bird interrupts him (She did not interrupt Torrance or Clegg)

      Bird: But do you feel she was under pressure from, most notably, the nurse in the audience? [This is now the 3rd time Bird has returned back to her planted nurse – there were no other moments in their 2 hour show Bird wanted to discuss but the ‘starving’ nurse].

      Richard Walker agreed these were difficult questions about education and nurses’ pay but when Walker stated these were devolved issues; other issues should have been discussed on the show, and Labour are more concerned with the SNP’s record at Holyrood than dealing with the Tories austerity policies at Westminster, Bird quickly shut him up by cutting him off mid sentence quickly ‘Thank you gentlemen’.

      Bird then spoke to a tory politician then Joanna Cherry Q.C. Almost laughably, Bird returns to the starving nurse narrative for the FOURTH time, in as many minutes!!

      Bird: Joanna Cherry, about that plea from the member of the audience and her statement to Nicola Sturgeon, “Don’t come on your announced visits”. How did she react to that? Did she react well? Did she manage to rebut…

      Bird could have waxed lyrical but Cherry stopped this nonsense by simply stating,

      Cherry: I think what she did was she explained to the nurse that under the SNP, the Scottish government in Scotland have done more to protect pay in jobs in the NHS than anywhere else in the UK.

      Bird quickly shut that down by abruptly standing up to move onto talk to more Unionists as clearly Cherry Q.C. saw Bird’s agenda and stopped it in Bird’s tracks.

      THis nurse farce/SNP attack was most definitely set up and repeated ad nauseum by Bird & Smith.

      They are seasoned ‘operators’ in BBC land and it is only the nurse’s admission (Bupa nurse so her pay is not from the Scots Govt at all) that Mesdames Bird & Smith invited her onto the show, that we know the role played by the BBC in trying to set up the SNP.

      Remember that all important fact. The unionist nurse did not ask to get on the show. She did not apply. She was invited onto the show in advance to ask her questions of the First Minister, her anti-SNP questions, which Mesdames Bird & Smith knew in advance, from the Question Time show, where she did not get to rant about the SNP.

      You have to ask how many others are ‘invited’ onto BBC shows to set the tone and narrative in this manner?

      Earlier Bird had crowed, scarcely able to contain her glee, ‘I think that’s what is so good about debates like this; because you don’t know what is going to happen and often something very nuanced and personal can turn it’.

      The BBC, Bird & Smith, knew exactly what they were about. They DID know exactly what was going to happen when they gave the nurse the floor. Bird also admits that she knows such personal sob stories can affect public opinion against the SNP and by her own admission, knowing they invited this nurse into the debate, it was Bird & Smith’s whole intent and aim, from the outset, to harm the First Minister.

      This is not a impartial broadcaster. It is an amateur Pravda-esque production and their stunt has back fired spectacularly against Bird, Smith & the BBC.

      Lastly, both Question Time & this Leaders Debate were produced by Mentorn! So Smith & Bird had full access to all the prior questions unasked on QT!

    73. TheWasp says:

      I think I would prefer to be a hypergnat please…

    74. Thepnr says:

      @Orri

      OK so she was a member of Unison on a mission being advised by a union official to put a question to the panel and not directly to Nicola Sturgeon.

      That’s very interesting and a new slant on things, something I’ve not read or heard before.

      Where might I find such a statement, you have a link I presume?

    75. skintybroko says:

      Firstly my heartfelt sympathies to all involved in the Manchester incident.

      Dpict – why not just become a Hibernat …… sorry, couldn’t resist!

      As for nursey, it will blow over, but no matter something else will be along in a minute to villify the SNP.

    76. FTDmail says:

      I suppose we shouldn’t get so agitated by this. I think everyone understands the BBC’s game on here. Tactics like this will only backfire in the longer game that is being played out. The BBC for many is still a very credible source of information and it is those people who’s eyes need to be opened. Once they see their agenda for what it is they will start to question everything about them and probably other media outlets of Scottish politics. That can only have a good knock on effect for our aim of independence. The game has to be patiently to call these things out for what they are and not allow the likes of the BBC to portray the supporters of nationalism as somehow unhinged. If we can do that they have nothing to use against us. Sharing videos like the ones like Journey to Yes are a way to do this. Brexit and other insane English Tory ideas, like trying to prevent another vote, will be the only gravity we need over the next couple of years.

    77. FIONA TOMANY says:

      shw is no need of a food bank but a health farm judging by the size of heR.
      What actually is being missed is the comment about Nicola going om about independence. saying she would lose her seat is she that ignorant Nicola is not standing for Westminster

    78. heedtracker says:

      Heil’s Matt cartoon this spring morn reaches even lower than usual, for UKOK hackdom, frightened elderly couple peeping out their window at two machine gun wielding terrorists coming down their garden path, “Oh dear will you answer the door, I think they’re canvassing for Jeremy Corbyn.”

      BBC led tory media is famous for a lot of nasty stuff but they certainly don’t know any limits.

    79. seanair says:

      I think the BBC are absolute SH…E and don’t normally watch their programmes, but I thought I would watch their reporting on the Manchester disaster (since STV would be crap).
      After the programme ending at 1.00 pm today, and before the Manchester report started, the BBC managed to input 2 adverts boasting about their wonderful programmes. No recognition of a terrible event– get your boasts in as planned.
      Whoever was responsible should be sacked, but we all know they are wonderful, they tell us so.

    80. HandandShrimp says:

      The BBC do not come out of that debate with much credit. It was poorly moderated and the there was clear intent to have people there to ask non-general election questions. To say that the audience took in that direction is clearly a lie. The BBC invited people there just so they could ask those questions.

      Joanna Cherry should have waited for confirmation about whether she was married to the Councillor but that whole stramash only lasted about half an hour. Stu was absolutely right to say evidence or STFU. The thing is who said she was related first? It wasn’t entirely clear as far as I could see. Once said it was around the interwebs in about 30 seconds and an hour later people were saying “Oh no she isn’t but look at her pictures”.

      The fact that she uses the “Wee Jimmy Krankie” jibe, much loved by Yoons, would indicate she went to have a ping at the FM but other than that I think the fault lies mainly with the BBC who invited her specifically to ask that question.

    81. Proud Cybernat says:

      First of all, condolences to all those affected by the utterly senseless Manchester atrocity.

      @ Madcatwumman

      Totally second Thepnr’s comment. Your psot was top-drawer stuff and I too hope that it’s brought to the FM’s attention.

      Great post too from Liz White @12:40pm.

      This was an orchestrated fit-up by the BBC in Scotland. No doubt in my mind about that. Sarah Smith’s appalling excuse for allowing what were clearly devolved issues to be discussed in a WM election debate was naked, unbridled bias on a truly breath-taking scale. Nicola (and ALL ScotGov ministers) must be much sharper to such clearly orchestrated set-piece ambushes.

    82. Welsh Sion says:

      Only a few days previously, this surfaced, “courtesy” of University of Southampton Conservative Association.

      https://www.wessexscene.co.uk/news/2017/05/19/conservative-association-in-screenshot-scandal-over-attack-on-nurses/

      My reply.

      “I’m just gonna say it. If you’re so shit at managing your English syntax and grammar you have to demonstrate how much a fool you are on a public platform, you’re not fit to be at university, subsidised by the rest of us.”

      (The Conservative Association have now apologised. Allegedly.)

    83. Breeks says:

      Why is the BBC inviting anybody to the Leaders debate apart from Leaders?

      It seems quite extraordinarily that an audience which is essentially there to bear witness to the fairness of the debate has in fact been selected and groomed to be an active participant in that debate.

      Unfettered public debate suddenly becomes grubby premeditated orchestration and a contrived agenda. Good ol’ BBC eh?

    84. David Mooney says:

      I’ll just leave this here from Karen Martin.

      Karen Martin – Nurse – A Response To The Nurse Who Cried Foodbank

      “Just to dispel the rapidly growing myths around this nurse and her salary I’d like to spell out exactly what she lied about in terms of that salary and why so many nurses are up in arms about it!

      She works for the NHS as a staff nurse, (although she herself claims to be a charge nurse in a busy A&E), however for the sake of this exercise I’ll place her on the lowest band for staff nurses in Scotland. That’s the whole of Scotland because no matter where you work in the NHS the salary structure is identical. The least a newly qualified staff nurse would earn on a Band 5 is just shy of £22, 000. This rises year on year incrimentally for 6yrs to the Band maximum of £28,180.

      She herself states that she has been working for many years so she cannot be stuck on the starting scale, it doesn’t work that way. Anyone working for 6yrs will have reached their Band max. If indeed she is a charge nurse as she claims on her LinkedIn then that would be Band 6 which starts at £26,041 and again incrimentally rises to £34,876. So you see there’s no way for a qualified registered nurse to be stuck at £22,000 as she claims.

      Furthermore she also works with RMR an agency I myself have done shifts for in the past and the pay is very lucrative compared to NHS payscales, so much so that most hospitals are now forbidden to use this agency.
      So no matter how you look at this then that woman is not as skint as she claims to be!

      She blatantly lied about her pay and anything else that followed also has to be suspect. She lied knowing full well that nurses salaries are published and in the public domain, and also knowing there were bound to be nurses watching who would know instantly she was lying, clearly she didn’t care about that either.

      That I find both particularly perplexing and shameful.”

      Full article here http://www.anyvoice.co.uk/health-education/karen-martin-nurse-response-nurse-cried-foodbank/

    85. David Mooney says:

      Sorry. @Sinky must have posted the link while I was putting it together.

    86. Thepnr says:

      @Cuilean

      Well dissected and it just makes all the more obvious that the BBC agenda was to push this nurses story into the headlines in order to slag off the SNP.

      A total failure though when the SNHS is devolved and they have met their commitments to NHS staff in full and in accordance with UK guidelines. The nurses that are losing out are living in England where Jeremy Hunt refused to implement the recommendations of the pay committee.

      There were no Junior Doctors strikes here, nor are Nurses strikes planned unlike in England. Thank you BBC for allowing us to highlight these facts on social media. Your screwed up propaganda will be your undoing in Scotland.

      The majority are getting wise to the crap you broadcast. Give it up.

    87. desimond says:

      @Dpict

      Youre officially a HiberNat!

      🙂

    88. galamcennalath says:

      I avoid the term nat, or whatever.

      I never own up to being a nationalist when debating with Yoons, I always say I am a pro democracy activist and lack of democracy is the problem.

      Yes, I know. Good guys like Ghandi can be nationalists. And yes, I am a civic nationalist. But the word comes with so much baggage it’s best to go for an uncomplicated version.

      I tell Yoons (focusing on the nasty side of nationalism) that historically most nationalists believe in the superiority of their nation, that it is special, and therefore entitled to rule over neighbours and others. Obviously I paint a picture of British Nationalism and they often do get the message!

    89. Proud Cybernat says:

      Ultra-Nat?

      Could be a whole lot worse. They could be calling us BritNats.

    90. Legerwood says:

      Madcatwumman @ 12.24

      In the interests of accuracy:

      Student nurses and midwives in Scotland do not pay University fees in Scotland and still receive a bursary. Neither of these things happen in England. The bursary may not cover all living costs but, taken together with free tuition, it does mean a much lower level of debt at the end of the course than their counterparts in England.

      Mature student nurses and student nurses with dependents can apply for enhanced payments. After a review in which student nurses were consulted, no the SG does not confine itself to talking to the high heid yins, these payments have been enhanced and include payments towards childcare costs.

      Details of enhanced payments below. (Taken from SG Web site) here:

      “”Enhancements to financial support for 2017/18 academic year, in addition to the standard Nursing & Midwifery Student Bursary:
      • Single Parents Allowance to be increased by £1,000 – from £1,303 to £2,303 per academic year
      • Childcare Allowance to be increased by £1,250 – up to £1,216 is available currently to meet the costs of registered childcare, this will increase to £2,466 per year
      • Dependants Allowance to be increased by £1,000 per year – maximum amounts that eligible students can receive through this income based allowance are currently:
      • £2,640 for a spouse or cohabiting partner
      • £2,640 for the first child where there is no dependent husband or wife, or other dependent adult
      • £557 for each other dependent child.
      • The maximum available for the first dependent will increase to £3,640
      • The total cost of funding pre-registration nursing and midwifery training and the Nursing & Midwifery Student Bursary is approximately £130 million.””

      Work placements are now part of ,many courses and usually involve the student taking up a 1 year paid placement before going into their final honours year. I don’t see why student nurses should not be paid for their placements although the length and duration seems to vary between universities. I believe the issue is under discussion. Student nurses can claim travel expenses and in some cases accommodation expenses when on placements.

      Parking charges for visitors and staff have been abolished at most Scottish Hospitals. Not so in England.

      I think the swipe at the FM during the programme for visiting hospitals was a cheap shot. As a former, successful Health Secretary, Ms Sturgeon knows how potentially disruptive these can be and I am not aware of her making an excessive amount of these visits as FM. When she does visit it is usually confined to a small section of the hospital and usually to highlight developments or initiatives in a particular area.

      It should be noted that the SG did institute unannounced inspections by health inspectors as part of a raft of measures to reduce hospital acquired infections.

    91. Chick McGregor says:

      I think there has been some black flag comments on this forum the past couple of days. JMO.

    92. Effijy says:

      I seen a Nurse, but I’m feeling worse.
      I watched a debate that I didn’t rate
      BBC hate and grim ideology
      Westminster politics corruption without an apology

    93. Thepnr says:

      @Chick McGregor

      I think you’d be right JMO too.

    94. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “To Wings: I posted the following tweet almost 1 hour ago and it has not appeared. Why?”

      Because you keep logging in with different fucking names.

    95. Arbroath1320 says:

      For what it’s worth this article has a response to this nurse from another nurse who sets out the pay for nurses throughout Scotland. It does not make any difference whereabouts in Scotland you are a nurse you are paid the same.

      http://www.anyvoice.co.uk/health-education/karen-martin-nurse-response-nurse-cried-foodbank/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

    96. skintybroko says:

      Sorry to be O/T but Willie Rennie takes the opportunity to mention divisiveness in his statement to parliament about Manchester – bloody opportunist.

    97. AyeIndy says:

      There’s another angle to this that I haven’t read much comment on.

      I devote of a fair bit of time to volunteering in my local foodbank. I also very lucky to be able to provide weekly cash and food dontations. I am not looking for any thanks or praise for this whatseoever; but I do feel it gives me the right to make this comment.

      Foodbanks are under extreme pressure to find donations and funding in order to meet the shameful growing demand for their service. What this lady has done could very well effect their ability to operate.

      Firstly, people seeing her lifestyle (private school, convertible car, 5 star hotels, expensive tastes) would be entitled to ask why they should be donating to a foodbank if this is the sort of person who is using them. Most people will know that she is in no way indicative of a ‘normal’ foodbank user, but donations – time, money and produce, are absolutely vital given their scarcity. Foodbanks can’t afford to lose ANY good will from the general public.

      Secondly, the service from top to bottom is stretched with record numbers of people using the service. People could very easily see her story and think ‘if she’s on £22k, living like that and still getting help from a foodbank, I’m for a shot, too’. Even filtering out the people who don’t need help is a time intensive task which bites on already limited resources.

      She has completely undermined the foodbank service through her thoughtlessness (I’m fighting hard not to say ‘lies’) and actions. She won’t suffer through it, she’ll keep her head down for a few days (probably with the help of a fine Champagne) and then carry on as normal. The folk who will suffer will be the ones who can least afford it.

    98. shiregirl says:

      heedtracker says:
      23 May, 2017 at 12:53 pm

      Correct. Nurses work to a code of conduct which covers how a nurse should work and conduct his/herself. It’s published by the NMC, the governing body for nurses/midwives. The RCN is the union.

      I have been quietly thinking about this – I don’t want to be accused of being an ultra-nat or being part of a witch hunt. I in no way want any part of this or raking over her social history – that’s not who I am and would never bully anyone. I am simply a very pissed off nurse who feels this has done the profession I love no good. I want to point out that when this nurse stated she spoke on behalf of all nurses, she doesn’t. How dare she. I feel she has used her position as a nurse to make political point for personal gain.

      I am concerned the nurse concerned has not stuck to the code in these areas:

      20 upholding professionalism and trust:

      20.2 act with honesty and integrity at all times,treating people fairly and without discrimination, bullying or harassment

      20.3 be aware at all times of how your behaviour can affect
      and influence the behaviour of other people

      20.7 make sure you do not express your personal beliefs
      (including political, religious or moral beliefs) to people in an inappropriate way

      20.8 act as a role model of professional behaviour for students and newly qualified nurses and midwives to aspire to

      21 – Uphold your position as a registered nurse or midwife

      21.4 make sure that any advertisements, publications or published material you produce or have produced for your professional services are accurate, responsible, ethical, do not mislead or exploit vulnerabilities and accurately reflect your relevant skills, experience and qualifications

      21.5 never use your professional status to promote causes that are not related to health, and

      21.6 cooperate with the media only when it is appropriate to do so, and then always protecting the confidentiality and dignity of people receiving treatment or care.

      I watched the debate and was struck with the inaccuracies re strikes and also regarding the FM losing her seat. I felt it gave the impression that nurses rely on food banks and this is simply not true – as far as I am aware. I also felt this was not doing anything to help promote the profession in a good light.

      I also am perplexed as to why a nurse would state she was a charge nurse when on £22,000 – this is perhaps an error but makes no sense. Paygrades for Scotland are available to check on the RCN website.

      On a personal level, I felt the photos – made public via SM on linkedin and FB were also unprofessional. She linked being a nurse (stating where she worked and also her handle – ‘nursey’ with them) Posing in a corseted top with ample bosom on display on Linkedin isn’t a good professional choice.

      Talking about politics via media whilst stating you are a nurse is frowned upon by the NHS. It could cause issues in the future when nursing a patient who may recognise you from media and could affect the nurse-patient relationship.

      So, like I say. This isn’t personal. I, like many, have questions and some concerns. Perhaps she came over badly due to nerves and got verbal diarrhoea? Who knows. I also note that she may have been used by the BBC or political party as a plant. Sorry, but as a nurse, you are aware of your boundaries and would be well aware that discussing issues like this on TV would rake up questions and enquiry.

      I do wonder if the NMC are aware of peoples’ concerns regarding this episode.

      Apologies for the rant.

    99. galamcennalath says:

      These accusations of being divisive really piss me off!

      If they hadn’t bought a victory in 2014 with lies, deception, and false promises then we would be an independent nation making our own future by ourselves, for ourselves. It would be a settled done deal and the time for any division would have passed.

      Instead they perpetuate the situation and given the chance will try to maintain division in this nation for as long as they can get away with.

    100. John Walsh says:

      Every cloud has a silver lining or maybe not
      I like many jumped on the twitter high speed rumour mill I am ashamed to say. But in the heat of battle and this is a media battleground. With MSM twisting story after story to suit their Yoon agenda,
      I like many are sick of especially BBC Scotland.
      Wiith their hatred of The SNP the fact they are in government makes them deliberately on debate shows and Q time keep placing stooges in already nominated and identified seating giving them a free hand to have a pop at The SNP representative.
      the BBC saw a chance to get a frothing Yoon to attack Nicola Sturgeon on a relevant but not relative to GE subject .
      Sarah Smith manipulated the staged managed scene and the compliment of MSM journos bought it
      They miscalculated however the social media backlash because they have been exposed good and proper this time
      Q is will the SNP take a more assertive stance in calling out the BBC I expect not.
      What would it be like. To have even 25% of the media on our side.
      Thank God Stu shines a torch into the Yoon propaganda machine.

    101. Petra says:

      Apologies if this has been posted before.

      Question Time Edinburgh 11th May 2017.

      Check out the nurse sitting in the front row in a group of three with South Lanarkshire Tory Councillor Eric Holford to her left and could that be Tory Councillor Alex Allison SLC sitting to her right?

      Dimbleby commences the programme by taking a question from Eric Holford and returns to him twice more (7.30 – 24.37) during the programme.

      At around 34 minutes in he takes a question from the man to her right. He brings up the subject of independence. ”Divided families, divided communities” with nursey nodding away in agreement.

      And as we know later that night she could tweet that there was a Tory plant in the audience. Was it the Councillor / s? sitting next to her, the man who fired in the £15 billion black hole comment (no comeback allowed) or the teacher complaining about falling University standards?

      What about the MSM questioning her about that? Who was the Tory plant(s)?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neSMl1vWR3g

    102. Fred says:

      Wonder how much the nurse was paid? champagne’s no cheap!

    103. fletch49er says:

      Has Claire Austin apologised ‘personally’ to Nicola Sturgeon for falsely accusing her of being “Wee Jimmy Krankie”?

    104. mike d says:

      Vestas 1.22pm. Yes,a lot more of these yoon plants will think twice about coming on live TV and spouting their lies,when they know in this technological age if they are lying,they will be quickly outed.

    105. bookie from hell says:

      spectator

      Claire Austin, a nurse who landed a direct hit on Nicola Sturgeon. She said that she has had to use food banks

      turned into a snp cybernats hate peice

      a Neil Retweeted it

    106. Bob p says:

      The next time kd or Rd spout their lies,the retort should be ‘where’s the nurse?

    107. Robert Peffers says:

      @winifred McCartney says: 23 May, 2017 at 12:16 pm:

      “How is it that labour and others support £10 per hour living wage, which they say is enough to live one and which amounts to £24,000 working 50 hours per week but KD can shout ‘she can’t feed her family’ at NS even though she promotes £10 per hour.”

      You are right of course, Winifred, but I see it as even more basic than that. In the period that the Westminster Government, backed up of course by Labour and the LibDems, have imposed austerity upon the people of the United Kingdom and claimed that “We are all in this together”, the top strata of the most wealthy people in the United Kingdom have more than doubled their own personal wealth.

      Now I’m not a great one at mathematics but it seems to me, if the top strata of the United Kingdom can double their personal wealth while the rest of us are under austerity conditions, the truth is that the wealthy ones are not in austerity measures with the rest of.

      Yet the only place for them to double their personal wealth from is by taking it out of the pockets & purses of the people suffering austerity measures for Westminster tells us there is not enough funds to sustain government services and pensions.

      Someone is telling lies – I wonder who they could be?

    108. Pete says:

      Regarding the nurse matter, I really don’t know how she came to be on the programme or whether she was a plant as some folks seem to think.
      I think that is just the usual paranoia which, understandably, tends to rear its head on such a single minded website.
      However, I find her remarks quite repulseful as there is no way she needed to attend foodbanks based on the salary she must have been receiving.
      For once in my life, I felt a bit sorry for NS as it must have been almost impossible to deal with such comments.
      In general, I do know that foodbanks are frequently abused by people being fraudulently authorised to receive help.
      The police are aware of a trade in food bank supplies for drugs and alcohol.
      However, there are occasions when people are caught in benefit bungles and are genuinely in need of help.
      I, for one, would like this woman to be exposed for what she is, as asking a question based on false facts does no one of whatever political persuasion any good.

    109. Madcatwumman says:

      @Legerwood – in the interests of accuracy –

      I never said at any point that student nurses pay uni fees – I said I lived on a bursary with kids ( ran 2 houses on 6 grand as I didn’t qualify for dependants allowance or single parent component as my kids father was still around but unable to get any money as I got a bursary so he couldn’t get any benefits. At that time you got nothing for a spousal dependent unless you were married and your children were not included as ‘dependents’ if you lived with your partner. I don’t know if this rule has been changed or not. Couldn’t even get housing benefit as I was classed as a student. So when I was on placement – I had 2 houses bills – NO money towards placement accommodation, no childcare help and no subsistence help. This was MY experience.

      I still have students regularly – they DO get mileage allowance for their cars now – but none of them are given help with placement costs. ( I’ve recently had 2 who came from across the country and they had to pay accommodation costs out of their bursary). They can claim for the cheapest form of travel to placement but not if it is in their ‘base area ( which can actually involve a placement miles away but still technically within ‘base’. If this help you highlight is CURRENTLY available – it obviously is not known about in some uni’s. Or maybe they are just being brought in for this years intake – in which case – it’s about time!. Certainly – no student I’ve mentored in the last 10-15 years has had childcare paid, or accommodation.

      No – Scottish student nurses are not ‘as badly’ off as the rest of the U.K. ones ( and if you are young and single, with no responsibilities – then, yes – it’s not too bad!). But that doesn’t detract from the fact that a few grand will NOT cover childcare costs for your 37.5 HR week ( 18 month) placements, and that doesn’t mean you can live on the bursary if you have dependents.

      The NMC has minimum hours of placement for entry on to the register – they are non negotiable. ALL students do these hours.

      There is definitely no uni in my area that does ‘paid’ placements. No student on the support boards I mentor on has ever mentioned this either. They may be on the way but I have never come across any students actually doing it. There was talk of a fourth ‘apprentice’ year in the training ( it was out for consultation) but it certainly has never been brought in to any of the uni’s that place students in my area.

      Parking charges originating from the NHS hospitals has been abolished – many car parks are owned under PFPI so still charge – I can guarantee you this – Ive paid them!

      I agree that this nurse was taking a pot shot at the wrong person. I also agree with folk that say Nicola Sturgeon could easily have deflected this by pointing to Ruth Davidson and national pay awards! She could also have asked the unions to participate in local area negotiations.

      I totally disagree about the SG visits! – I was once ‘kept well out of the path of a Scottish secretary by my boss as I wanted to highlight a few issues to her. That is the problem – the SG will have a skewed idea of what is ACTUALLY going on because they don’t just turn up!. It’s not about fault finding – it’s about realism! It’s about asking those who DO what they need to be able to DO properly.

      Announced visits are absolutely pointless – that involves bigwigs prettying everything up – and hiding problems – instead of trying to deal with them – we are supposed to be open and transparent!

      I want to be able to do my job properly! I want to do it safely! I want to feel like my opinion and input is valued and that I am being listened to! – as do all my colleagues.

      It’s little wonder there is so little goodwill left in nursing.

      I’m not having a go at the SG – I’m well aware of the constraints they work within – I lay the blame where it should lie – with the Tories and their running down of the NHS. BUT – the SG can help by LISTENING. They may not be able to do – and if they explain why then they will move forward with staff onboard, instead of them feeling ignored and frustrated.

      I love my job! I’m proud to be a nurse, but if you have a conscience, you go home feeling like you were prevented from being and giving your best. Usually it’s things that would be relatively easy to fix – IF ONLY the staff were asked!

      I’m NOT talking about announced and unannounced inspections ( they only EVER usually result in staff on the floor being rollick end for things they did ‘wrong’) – I’m talking about members from the SGs health brief coming and speaking to nursing staff ( be it by email, phone, survey or in person). Just turn up – no entourage, no fine lunch – just turn up and speak to staff!

      I’m an SNP supporter and fully support the SG – but in trying to ‘refute’ my LIVED experience ( not taken from the SG website- but my actual, personal, continuing) experience of training and working as a nurse – it lends credence to the assertion that nobody is allowed to criticise them.

      I totally agree that students in Scotland are far better off than those in England, Ireland and Wales ( as are nurses) – BUT being better off than someone else who is worse off should never be used to mean that you are fine. Some nurses live in high cost areas, DO pay parking charges, do have to pay a fortune in childcare, work lots of unpaid, extra hours and squeeze every last drop out of themselves on every shift.

      I know my personal experiences and that of my friends, colleagues and students. I KNOW what they currently do and don’t get in relation to recompense ( irrespective of what’s on a website – I speak to them daily about their struggles). understandably, your view of nurses may be skewed by false claims by those with an agenda – my only agenda is to get nurses voices heard by all. I have no axe to grind with the SG.

      Folk also need to be riding the BBC on why this lady was invited back – has anyone else ever been invited back?
      I wish the SNP would take the kid gloves off and start refuting instead of apologising all the time. Don’t drop things – sling them back with aplomb. They let folk walk all over them. You can be polite and firm at the same time.

    110. orri says:

      The information about her being in Unison comes from one of the links in the article.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/wpcontent/uploads/2017/05/lhunison.jpg

      Said it before but reading her linkedin entry https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-austin-2b301a65/ shows either she’s been recently promoted or is lying about her job title. She’s on there as a Staff Nurse.

      In addition she’s perhaps only been full time for 3 years assuming the bit before the 2 years on the NHS Bank was after she qualified and all the bits before were during her training. The 3 employer line seems odd but never mind.

      The first university she mentions now charges £12,000 per year but that was in 2009 so after the Credit Crunch and before the LibDems capitulated on fees.

      Think people need to realise that if you think she might be putting on a front that the way she portrays herself on social media might also be more of the same.

    111. Pat McAleenan says:

      ‘Oh yee of little intellect’Do you really think that a monster called “Unionism” from all sides and genders is not combining to destroy a very special asset called Nicola Sturgeon who’s very background they hate after all these rats can’t have a council tenant running their cosy fiefdom,don’t let the makeup and eyelashes fool you just remember what Neil Oliver thinks of Independence and its voters well Jackie Bird and Co. think the same the media is rotten to the core and the decay is caused by unionism.

    112. Thepnr says:

      @Orri

      Sorry mate your first link is broken.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/wpcontent/uploads/2017/05/lhunison.jpg

      Error 404 – Not Found

    113. Thepnr says:

      @Orri

      One other point, I never asked about her being in Unison as that would be expected for many if not the majority of nurses.

      I was specifically referring to your statement that she was:

      “being advised by a union official to put a question to the panel and not directly to Nicola Sturgeon.”

      Where’s the evidence for that if you don’t mind.

    114. Jim says:

      As NHS pay is a devolved issue for Scotlands pariament and government why is this even being made an issue of, in a UK wide election if not to deflect from Tory policies at westminster . Ruth Davidson is spending more time talking about independence and devolved issues than Nicola Sturgeon

    115. Auld Rock says:

      Am I missing something, I thought that you had to be referred to a ‘Food Bank’?

      Auld Rock

    116. orri says:

      OOPs, i’ll try again. the link was labeled ‘air their grievance’.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/lhunison.jpg

    117. donald anderson says:

      The jingoists answer to each terrible terrorist attack is to call for more security and more Union jack waving jingoism. Nowhere in the British media is there analytical attempts to source the cause of these grievances to explain why we will keep on getting more and more of them. Like the poppy day fascists and jingoists no one is allowed to voice an alternative to Imperialist wars and notional charity, instead of guaranteed rights. Britain and the US have upset the Middle East and ruined any stability or good will for hundreds of years to come.Trump and May are selling billions of arms, to the Reactionary Saudies to bomb other Arab States. Plus reinforcing a European capitalist, imperialist, colony in the Middle of Palestine

      It seems Florence Nightingale is an agency nurse with three employers and making a mint. No mention of why she left t English NHS for better pay and conditions in Scotland. The whole show was focused on devolved matters and attacking the first Minister, rather than dealing with Westminster Parliamentary issues?

      Patrick Harvie was allowed to get away without mentioning the other candidates, including the sitting SNP MP, Patrick Grady, or why he is prepared to split the vote and maybe let Labour in?.

    118. John Jones says:

      Scot,
      there is a lead time from asking questions til broadcast, so no chance of a try to change the subject,been on QT, you’re told this at the beginning.waste of time going on,no chance of voicing your opinion if it’s out of their preferred agenda.

    119. jdman says:

      Stravaiger
      “What’s an Ultranat? How do I get to be one? Sounds awesome!”

      You would have to ask XSticks
      but it is essentially any winger who was at the Aiberdeen wings nicht oot who got so drunk that they ended up on an Aiberdeen fishing trawler and woke up in Tromso getting their face licked by a seal.
      ULTRANAT!
      or so the story goes 😉

    120. orri says:

      @donald anderson

      She trained and qualified as a Nurse in Edinburgh according to her Linkedin profile.

      This is as bad as some who don’t get what her joke about the choice between poor and happy and rich and miserable was about. She’s saying she’d settle for being moderately wealth off not that she is.

    121. Richardinho says:

      I find it quite funny that a lot of the articles who use this story to attack the SNP also mention the fact that this nurse went on holidays to New York.

      It’s like they’re saying “We’re just going along with this story for laughs”!

    122. Liz g says:

      My impression when I first saw the nurse ask her question was that,Nicola realised very quickly that the moderator was going along with this.

      She I thought (although I have no way of knowing) looked like she debated with herself if she should give the correct answer about it being Westminster’s remit,but decided not to.

      Quite rightly in my opinion, because I assumed that all this was intended to open the door for a Ruthie rant about Nicola blaming everything on Westminster,and pointing out she is in charge of health bla de bloody bla.
      But Nicola didn’t bite.
      I think that’s why kezzia dugdale sounds a bit desperate…..well a bit more than usual…. because they were probably all geared up to accuse Nicola of blaming Westminster for everything.
      Well that’s how I read what was happening anyway.

    123. FTDmail says:

      @fletch49er

      I mean she really shouldn’t be name calling. She must have had a hard time when Shrek came out…

    124. heedtracker says:

      shiregirl says:
      23 May, 2017 at 2:39 pm
      heedtracker says:
      23 May, 2017 at 12:53 pm

      I’d go along with all your comments. What are professional codes of conduct for, if they have been completely flouted here?

      It’s perfectly legitimate to criticise Nicola Sturgeon publicly about pay and conditions for your NHS profession, and that goes for all public sector employees. If you want better pay, who else are you going to go lobby?

      But you have to stick to the facts, as Legerwood has laid out. Legerwood has done what no hack has and shown that there are very clear differences in nurses training funding and pay between Scotland and England.

      Does her professional code of conduct permit her to claim publicly to Scotland’s First Minister, that her pay is so low she uses foodbanks?

      Can a nursing professional announce on a BBC tv debate, that there are nurses strikes coming? I mean are there!

      All it would take is for her to name the foodbanks she needed to use. If what she’s stated publicly is untrue, this is a clear breach of her professions state codes of conduct, that are enforced, although maybe not.

      Who knows what really goes on in these professional codes of conduct bodies though. Look at how Ms Austen behaved on live tv, BBC too, shocking.

      See how it goes. One rotten, unprofessional, disreputable apple…

    125. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      In today’s Guardian:

      “UK joins Greece at bottom of wage growth league
      TUC found that between 2007 and 2015 in the UK, real wages fell by 10.4%, the joint lowest in OECD countries”

      UK – like Greece without the sunshine.

    126. Phil Robertson says:

      “HandandShrimp says:
      23 May, 2017 at 11:47 am
      To be fair, to be accused of being married to a Tory politician is a pretty vicious smear. It is almost the same as saying someone assisted Brady in his murders.”

      Your tunnel-vision view of politics seems to have overlooked Natalie McGarry, one-time SNP MP for Glasgow East. I carry no torch for Ms McGarry but to compare her to Myra Hindley is beyond the pale.

    127. Walter Scott says:

      I never heard of Ultranat before. What are they? I have read ultranat unionist trolls calling the FM jimmy krankie though

    128. harry mcaye says:

      Petra, that is not Alex Allison at last week’s Question Time. I doubted it was at the time, I’m good with faces, but he later confirmed he wasn’t there on facebook. Sadly, the tweet and new tweets saying it was him and maybe she was related to him (ffs!) were doing the rounds after Sunday’s debate. Not just Joanna Cherry was caught out.

    129. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ledger wood are you sure parking charges for staff have bee abolished at the New Southern General, last time I was there the nurses were still being charged. It’s a disgrace, six pounds a day if I remember correctly.
      Any medical staff at the new hospital abe to confirm no car parking charges for staff at QE2 university hospital glasgow?

    130. Thepnr says:

      @Orri

      Thanks for that, however a facebook comment from an individual member of a group should not morph into

      “being advised by a union official to put a question to the panel and not directly to Nicola Sturgeon.”

      Do you know for certain that he is a union official?

      His comment was “I’ve given her a few things to mention but I’m sure Claire will do just fine on her own” there is no mention of what the question should be or who it should be addressed to.

      Let’s stick to known facts.

    131. heedtracker says:

      Phil Robertson says:

      You’re quite the a lert WoS reader eh Phil, sitting there, scoping every and any comment, leaping in on anything at all to make your psycho tory yoon point.

      Are you being turned Phil, as you absorb every last Wos article and every last comment too?

      What a sad life yoons have online right enough.

      Is this why you do read everything on WoS Phil? Every last UKOK BBC tory hack trying on any and every SNP bad trick, hour by hour, it all certainly looks like the SNP are finished, your farce union really is saved but best have look at some actual other opinions, to keep yourself grounded maybe Phil:D

    132. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Tony Little @ 12:22,

      I agree with you. As part of a campaign group for better pay for nurses, she is perfectly entitled to campaign for that, and unfortunately for her she over-egged it with the foodbank story. It may have been personally true, but it wasn’t representative, as it was clearly meant to imply. She also has a personal record of anti-SNP antipathy which came out in the very first thing she said, which was against a referendum and had nothing whatever to do with nurses’s pay (except that they might actually be better off in an independent Scotland). So she has certainly brought her case, if not her profession, into disrepute.

      But as you say, the question should never have been asked in the first place. Not because nurses’ pay isn’t worthy of discussion, but because it concerned a devolved matter and thus irrelevant to a UK election. And this was entirely the fault of the BBC, who most definitely knew that.

      And now they BBC are adding insult to injury by pretending it’s all the fault of the SNP for simply saying mistakenly that she’s married to a Tory councillor? FGS! This has given the lead to a number of Tory rags to try to make some belated capital out of this exposure of a fix by distorting the story out of any reasonable representation of the truth into some kind of hypernat (?!) witch hunt of this poor unfortunate nursey.

      If it’s Ms Austin’s perfect right to campaign for fair pay, it’s also our right as licence-payers to demand the truth, and the whole truth, from the broadcaster whom we are forced to fund.

    133. Proud Cybernat says:

      Phil-a-pish.

    134. Clootie says:

      The nurse intended to do damage by an aggressive attack implying failure by the FM/SNP Government.
      Attacking the FM was intended to damage the SNP despite the claim of “fighting for others”

      The future of generations of Scots to come depend on a strong SNP and Independence movement.

      That is why the nurse deserves the same focus as the BBC. If she had a justified truthful case to champion then she should get on with it. She either lied or blew her money by poor financial management. In neither case is the FM accountable.

      …and if the BBC want to use people in this way then blame them.

    135. pool9 says:

      Madcatwumman

      Excellent posts, which I fully agree with. I trained around the same time as you I think, mid 90’s on a bursary. Thankfully I was single, and got the dog end of spartan but cheap in-house accommodation at the Glasgow Royal for the first 18 months of my training.(it closed either that year, or shortly afterwards) which was a lifesaver, things got much tighter when out in the real renter’s market!

      And yes, the SG should talk to floor staff directly. It doesn’t take long off the floors for people’s perspectives to totally change. Floor staff should be consulted on work conditions, and their perspective on what could be done to make their ability to deliver care better. Not the only people to be consulted, but they certainly should not be kept out of the loop. Having the senior staff come around, ask questions of the floor staff and then ‘pass along’ concerns does not work well, as those senior staff may well only hear and see what they want to, in my opinion. And then say what they want when meeting with government officials. My recollection of the nursing high heid yins at the GRI is not fond, I’m sorry to say. Hopefully that crop has all retired and not passed along their attitudes to those who followed! If only!

    136. Thepnr says:

      @Phil Robertson

      You don’t do irony do you Phil? There is no greater tunnel vision on show on Wings than yours.

      You almost always fail in getting your point of view taken seriously on Wings but almost always succeed in making a fool of yourself.

      Keep up the good work, Theresa needs you now more than ever.

    137. Camz says:

      If one can make a point on national telly, one can be prepared to given slightly more scrutiny than none at all, and especially in light of the BBC’s recent lack of vetting.

    138. Capella says:

      @ Petra 2.56 – welcome back! I sat through that QT and agree that those Tories in the front row on either side of The Nurse were probably Alex Allison and Eric Holford. Here’s a pic of them both on the night of the Clydesdale East election:
      http://tinyurl.com/l4elyao

      I’m sure, like me, you are stunned to find Tory plants sitting in the front row being invited, more than once, to ask questions and comment. Next time, the entire panel should be just Tory MPs, MSPs and Councillors. Why waste everyone else’s time.

    139. Meg merrilees says:

      Liz g. That thought crossed my mind – explaining that it is a reserved issue would appear to be a cop out so Nicola took it on.

      Interesting you picked up on Kezia’s behaviour in this.

      I listened to the debate on you tube yesterday. You’ll remember that the nurse asked her question quite early on (34minutes in) but Sarah Smith deftly defers it till later in the programme when we will come to discuss the NHS. So I posted this exchange between Kezia and Nicola :

      Here’s a curious thing…

      Kezia is the one who brings the issue back to the nurse @ 1hour 6 minutes.
      Kez accuses Nicola of voting against a pay rise for nurses.
      NS: not true, Kezia.
      Kez: you are not listening to the nurse here in the front row. “SHE CAN’T FEED HER FAMILY”

      but our nurse friend didn’t say, earlier in the programme that she couldn’t feed her family, she said :
      I am a nurse. I can’t manage on the salary I have. I have to go to food banks. I am struggling to pay bills. .. no mention of any family.
      Did Kezia know about her and her circumstances in advance?

      Just wondering, is this a S Labour stitch up?

    140. One_Scot says:

      I think when the BBC selects their next patsy, they should advise them to wipe their whole past clean, and then tell them to got into the Recycle Bin and delete it again, just to be doubly sure.

    141. John Hunterwood says:

      I personally don’t understand all of the fascination with this Nurses’ life. She asked a question. Got an answer.

      In fact the SNP have a strong record on nurses pay, having raised it year on year since they’ve been in power. Why don’t we talk about that? I feel the prying into this woman’s lives and the attempts to delegitimise her story just make us seem petty and plays exactly into the hands of the Unionists.

    142. r esquierdo says:

      Question one. How many foodbanks were operating in 2012
      Question two. Which foodbank(s)Did Claire Austin attend
      Question three. Who authorised her to attend the foodbank
      Question four. Did the BBC ask others who never got to ask their question on QT to attend the leaders debate.

      I my opinion the BBC have brought democracy into disrepute shame on them

    143. Alba Jock says:

      We all know what goes on. As for this lady she needs to realise if you fly wi’ the craws, you’ll get shot with them!To go offline only emphasises the guilt!

      May be a wee’it wissnae’ me! It wis’them is a comin’. If only she would surface from the champers!

      Nae chance.

    144. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 23 May, 2017 at 2:02 pm:

      “I avoid the term nat, or whatever.
      I never own up to being a nationalist when debating with Yoons, I always say I am a pro democracy activist and lack of democracy is the problem.”

      Funny you should say that, galamcennalath, for just the other day I was out by my front gate. I’d seen Postie coming and I have a broken gatepost I’ve not got round to fixing. So to save postie struggling with the gate I went to meet him.

      Postie stuck a handful of bumpf in my hand and the top one was a Tory leaflet. At this point a, (known to me), unionist came along and saw me reading the Tory Leaflet and said, “I didn’t think Cybergnats read our leaflets in case they learn the truth”.

      I’m a quick thinker and had a ready reply for him, “Oh! I’m not a Nationalist”, I said.

      He pointed to the YES sticker in my Window and said, “Then why have you got a YES sticker on your window”?

      My reply was – “Oh! No problem there, my friend, I’m a Scottish Patriot you see”.

      This was the Tory leaflet where tRuthless waffled on about how much better good and true British/English patriotism was than that nasty, evil Scottish Nationalism.

      How I managed not to laugh I’ll never know – the look on his face was a picture.

    145. arthur thomson says:

      @ Cuilean 1.29

      Good analysis.

    146. Dan Huil says:

      @skintybroko 2:31pm

      Did Rennie really say that?

    147. Liz g says:

      Meg Merrilees @ 4.56
      It’s no impossible Meg,but whatever was going on Ruthie couldn’t look up,and Nicola gave quite a glare to Sarah Smith.
      I am going to go look again to see what Willing Rennie was doing.

    148. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Madcatwumman @ 12:24,

      Thank you on behalf of all nurses (and indeed all other hospital staff) for the invaluable service you perform for us. Anyone who has benefited from your tender mercies, or had relatives who did, knows what it is truly worth.

      Ms Austin’s point, as you support, about high-level announced visits seems very plausible, and one hopes it will be noted and acted-upon.

      But it’s an imperfect world, and the SG has to balance the books (despite the £15BN libel) and it’s not easy for them to deliver all the justice that ideally they would wish, especially while still in the Union. It’s a wonder that they have been able to do it as well as they have, despite attempts to discredit their efforts with this latest attempted fix.

      And talking of “unions”, which one of them is causing the “sticking point”, if I may ask? (You or anyone else.) Would it be Unison, by any chance? =grin=

      It has occcurred to me that this situation would not be the first time where a union is attempting by its activities to cause difficulties to the SG in particular because it is driven by a hardline UK-wide agenda. And therefore maybe it is to the large unions that we need to look for the motivation for Labour’s rigid adherence to a Unionist stance.

      Who pays the piper, etc., etc….

    149. Fairliered says:

      Question for Claire Austin. Do you regret getting involved with the corrupt and partisan BBC?

    150. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rev. Stuart Campbell says: 23 May, 2017 at 2:31 pm:

      “To Wings: I posted the following tweet almost 1 hour ago and it has not appeared. Why?”
      Because you keep logging in with different fucking names.”

      That, Rev Stu, is the best laugh I’ve had for over a week. I’m just very glad I hadn’t just taken a swig from my coffee mug.

    151. Capella says:

      @ harry mcaye – so you are certain that is not Alex Allison? I thought it looked very like him except without the glasses.

      Another of Petra’s links is to Claire Austin’s Linkedin page. She quite clearly states that she is a staff nurse and has been for 7 years. Strange then that she is earning so little.

      https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-austin-2b301a65/

      What this episode is highlighting is the devious methods of the BBC in manipulating the optic in an election campaign.
      When we come to the referendum we must insist on OSCE monitoring, exit polls and watertight control of ballot papers. The purdah period must be enforced (who does that?) so that last minute VOWs can not influence voters.

    152. Robert Peffers says:

      @skintybroko says: 23 May, 2017 at 2:31 pm:

      “Sorry to be O/T but Willie Rennie takes the opportunity to mention divisiveness in his statement to parliament about Manchester – bloody opportunist.”

      Doesn’t the silly wee nyaff realise that it takes at least two sides in a divisive situation for it to be a divisive situation and in fact if one side is attacking the other as creating division then they are the prime reason for the division being a problem.

      Now, correct me if I’m wrong but, I cannot recall any independence supporters going on about divisiveness.

    153. chris says:

      Slightly o/t… The FM has been pretty much monstered in recent days about this and gets some vile abuse from people daily. But when I see her today making a speech regarding the atrocity in Manchester, her voice cracking with emotion, I am grateful to have her leading the country. I am no SNP fanboy and they certainly don’t get everything right but I believe we have a decent and honest human being as FM.

    154. Any honest and fair person watching the leaders debate could see that the fact that the bbc had to lie as they always do , to try to appear to win any argument is a failing on their part they will never change because to have an open and honest debate they know they will never win so they resort to lying and twisting the facts but what they seem to forget and ignore is that in doing so they insult our intelligence and bring more people on to our side

    155. Clydebuilt says:

      The Herald is implying that Jeanne Freeman …egged on Joanna Cherry to say that the Nurse was married to a Tory Councillor .. …

      The witch hunt against Cherry reminds me of the witch hunt against the SNP candidate in Edinburgh at the last election who passed on some joke …… Blew up into a disaster and resulted in losing a seat to Ian Murray…….

    156. AlbertaScot says:

      I don’t want to p!ss in the pickles here but this recently appeared on the Greater Manchester Police Federation twitter feed:

      “THE Home Secretary has promised to visit police forces to get a true picture of the unacceptable level of demand facing the service.

      Amber Rudd, appearing at the Police Federation of England and Wales’ annual conference for the first time, heard of a service on its knees. She spent much time during her speech promoting Conservative Party policies and claiming cuts had not affected crime levels.

      Nick Smart, West Yorkshire Police Federation Chair told Ms Rudd: “I turned up at work this weekend to find my response inspector breaking down, going off on stress because of hundreds of unanswered calls.

      “Custody looks like more like A&E. I have staff at the hospital looking after suicidal people and officers working extended hours and taking no meal breaks. That is the reality of policing day in, day out. Not just in West Yorkshire, but in the West Mids, the Met. Everywhere.”

      Ms Rudd said she was “sorry to hear this description”, adding: “I have been visiting forces. I haven’t seen a situation like that.

      When challenged, she conceded: “I accept your invitation to come up to West Yorkshire. I do not just sit back and listen to my advisors, I do go out and visit the places myself and I will make sure I will do if I get elected.”

      A representative from Norfolk Police said: “Since I have been at this conference I have had three texts begging officers to go in on overtime. We are firefighting, we have had enough.

      “I am going to guess that when you go to a force, you are going to have quite a few officers on overtime that we normally wouldn’t have and some jobs withheld so you can go on a walk around. I implore you to put in a surprise visit.”

      I know Stuey has thrown on a moratorium, but we might as well get the ball rolling.

    157. Willie Hogg says:

      If she is employed by BUPA it may be that we are doing her an injustice, as I am sure they will tie their salary scales to the English NHS pay scales and so it is a UK parliament topic. It would also explain her comment about nurses supporting industrial action. If this is the case, it is a pity she was so confused that she went after the wrong government!

    158. Jim Lynch says:

      when I saw this item I told my wife it was a set up. I also noted that Andy Nichol (of the Sun, I think) said he would like to know more about the nurse.

      My instinct was right:-)

    159. geeo says:

      Wee question sent to Kezia on her facebook page (no hope of a response) and via email (not much more likely).

      Nor will she respond to your questions on this, her own page.
      ……….
      Dear Kezia.

      The SCOTTISH ELECTORATE mandated a second referendum in 2016.

      The SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT further mandated that electorate mandate just a few weeks ago.

      If you INSIST on IGNORING those DEMOCRATICALLY won mandates, then you are ABSOLUTELY NOT a DEMOCRAT.

      I challenge you, Kezia Dugdale to respond to this comment, where you can try to explain, why you believe you can be a democrat, and DENY the DEMOCRATIC choices of the people of Scotland , especially from your own party position (in relation to Scotland) of having ZERO MANDATE at HOLYROOD, ZERO MANDATE at WM, and virtually ZERO MANDATE at COUNCIL level across massive swathes of Scotland.

      Of course, you will not response, because you, KEZIA DUGDALE are a COWARD.
      ………

      Breath not being held…..

    160. Phil Robertson says:

      Thepnr says:
      23 May, 2017 at 4:49 pm
      @Phil Robertson
      You don’t do irony do you Phil? There is no greater tunnel vision on show on Wings than yours.

      Well certainly not like you. In a post about how a question gets ignored and the questioner is subject to false and unsubstantiated smears, you ignore the question being made and ….

      heedtracker says:
      What a sad life yoons have online right enough.

      Not as sad as the wee laddies hiding behind their (unamusing) pseudonyms who can do no more than indulge in personal abuse.

    161. Thepnr says:

      @Phil Robertson

      What question Phil? You never asked a question. You talked about Natalie McGarry

      “I carry no torch for Ms McGarry but to compare her to Myra Hindley is beyond the pale.”

      What has that got to do with the comment from HandandShrimp you were referencing?

      HandandShrimp says:
      23 May, 2017 at 11:47 am

      To be fair, to be accused of being married to a Tory politician is a pretty vicious smear. It is almost the same as saying someone assisted Brady in his murders.

      Or is it? :/

      The irony that HandandShrimp referred to was that the media gave the same prominence to an innocent mistaken tweet by Joanna Cherry that they might have given to someone as notorious as Myra Hindley.

      You just never saw that though did you? Anyway what was your question and just maybe I can help you out?

    162. Iain More says:

      I see the Brit Nat trolls have crawled and slithered out from under their rocks.

      I don’t care what anybody says, the Yoon reptile is a lying Yoon bitch. I wouldn’t want her as a nurse but then I don’t do BUPA!

      So all political campaigning has stopped has it, the way the Yoons are going on you wouldn’t think so!

      I’m a Guga Nat today. Hate guga myself but I would sooner eat it than have that ahem nurse anywhere near me or mine.

    163. CameronB Brodie says:

      A useful idiot who has now passed their usefulness, IMHO. It does look like AC is being opportunistic in exploiting particular events in her life, in order to advance her political outlook. I’m guilty of that myself. However, I know that utilitarianism needs to be tempered or it turns to fascism. So it is the underlying principles being supported by the actions that are the relevant issue. I use my life experience in order to advance the common good. CA?

      “I think foodbanks are absolutely fantastic…it’s what human is all about” – Jacob Rees Mogg

      A true zen master of his art, managing to combine with exceptional efficiency, a paternalistic, 19th century, social Darwinist understanding of how society works, along with the philosophical underpinning of the politics that resulted in Nazi death-camps. Well done that man for spotting that the most important thing in life is the control and containment of wage-rates. Give him a gong for his services to humanity.

    164. heedtracker says:

      heedtracker says:
      What a sad life yoons have online right enough.

      Not as sad as the wee laddies hiding behind their (unamusing) pseudonyms who can do no more than indulge in personal abuse.

      Fair enough Phil. Are the famous Phil Robertsons Phil, or the non famous ones?

      I’m not that wee Phil.

    165. mike cassidy says:

      I pointed out yesterday that the BBC had previous regarding ‘planting’ nurses.

      You won’t like the source – and you may be surprised by the beneficiary

      unless you consider it was done with ‘backfire’ in mind.

      http://archive.is/jaGwA

      But it is more clear evidence that the BBC cannot be considered an honest source of news and opinion.

    166. Legerwood says:

      Madcatwumman @ 3.36

      My points were made to give a fuller picture of what is happening now because criticism during the programme was aimed at what is happening now. In your original post at 12.24pm you wrote of your personal experience but did not indicate when that had happened therefore I considered it worthwhile to give the current position with regards to additional payments, uni fees etc.

      Everyone would like the payments to be more so that everything is covered in full but that is unlikely to happen in the current set up.

      It is not being defensive about the Scottish Government to do so. I prefer that criticism is made based on the fullest evidence whether that evidence supports or dilutes the case for criticism. But that is a personal quirk of mine.

      The information on the additional payments came from official web sites not someone’s blog and therefore is relevant. The web sites are given below:

      1. Student grant awarding body in Scotland. Note the section at the end on Clinical placements and expenses for travel etc. There is a link within this

      http://www.saas.gov.uk/full_time/nmsb/funding_available.htm
      2. Scottish Government increased spending for dependants
      https://news.gov.scot/news/extra-gbp-3m-to-support-student-nurses-with-dependants

      Parking charges do still exist at some hospitals in Scotland – 3 I believe – mainly because the parking is the responsibility of private companies and involve PFI deals. Just how you scrap them when they are tied into PFI deals is anyone’s guess and is a wholly unwarranted charge on health workers.
      Details here
      https://news.gov.scot/news/free-parking-saves-patients-over-25m

      I did not say that some student nurses were paid for clinical placements but that there seems to be some discussion of the issue. For example, a call for payment for student nurses when on clinical placement was made at Unison’s annual healthcare conference in 2016 and delegates at the event passed the motion. A campaign was to be launched to rally support for this but I do not know how it is progressing. Not well perhaps given the UK Government’s attitude to paying bursaries to student nurses and midwives and making them pay Uni fees.

      The nurses and midwives as well as other health professionals have a strong case for pay increases after years of 1% increases as do many other public service workers. I don’t think any reasonable person would disagree with that apart from Jeremy Hunt and Theresa May but then they would never be described as reasonable.

      Health Improvement Scotland carries out announced and unannounced visits to hospitals and as their name suggests they are about improvement. If they did not visit, inspect, write reports, make recommendations and then follow up with further visits what do you think the infection rate would be in hospitals? In a professional capacity, as a visitor and as a patient I have seen things going on in hospitals that deserve a rollicking.

      I think we shall have to agree to disagree on the subject of official visits.

    167. Bob Mack says:

      The actual truth of this could be much simpler than you could imagine. If perchance any of you have studied employee engagement you would realise than no matter the size of your company there are three types of employee.
      1. Fully engaged with their employer and their job. Around 80% of any workforce.
      2. Those who are indifferent to any changes or improvement. Around 15 to 20%.

      In the latter group however there is always a minority around 2% to 5% who are actively hostile to the company and everybody else in it. They are in fact destructive to a large degree either directly or indirectly.

      I think this woman fits right into the last category, and totally reflects that behaviour. Normally you will find workers very defensive of their role and organisation even if they occasionally feel put upon.

    168. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. I’m not suggesting CA is a knowing fascist. More likely she has a partial, common-all-garden, general knowledge understanding of how things work. That’s partially how ideological British nationalism has survived for so long,IMHO.

    169. Phil Robertson says:

      Thepnr says:
      23 May, 2017 at 5:57 pm
      You talked about Natalie McGarry …
      What has that got to do with the comment from HandandShrimp you were referencing?

      Are you serious or merely being ironic again? The clue is in the phrase “being married to a Tory politician”.

    170. CameronB Brodie says:

      To be fair, to be accused of being married to a Tory politician is a pretty vicious smear.

      It’s the same as being told “you have no taste or common decency”. 🙂

    171. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Ignore the troll. He has contributed nothing but distraction, as he fully intended to do from the start.

    172. AlbertaScot says:

      Here’s another from the Greater Manchester Police Federation Facebook page:

      GMP Federation
      April 28 at 3:02am ·
      GMP has ‘felt the burn’ of Government’s austerity agenda, says Police and Crime Commissioner.
      Tony Lloyd was responding to the recent HMIC report in to policing in Manchester.

      The report published earlier this month … did find the force still needed to improve in some areas.

      Mr Lloyd said: “That the HMIC has recognised and highlighted the immense pressure placed on police officers as a result of cuts to public services can only be welcomed.

      I would question, however, why it has taken so long to come to this conclusion.
      “Since 2010, £180m has been axed from GMP’s budget and there are 2,000 fewer officers patrolling our streets. A further £44m needs to be saved by 2020. And it’s not only policing that has felt the brunt of the government’s austerity agenda.”

      Seems like Strong and Stable Mayhem has some ‘splainin’ to do.

    173. Effijy says:

      You might want to take part in this survey by my trade union Unite. (Unfortunate name)

      They have a drop down list which automatically assumes that you are Labour Supporter and so ask for your 2nd Choice. lol

      They ask about your top priority that would improve your life but it looks like Independence was too tough to spell?

      Dear *****

      Life is tougher under the Tories – work is becoming more insecure and austerity is having a terrible impact on our communities. A Labour Government will stand up for our communities and ensure protection for workers.
      They will do this by taxing only the top 5% and ensuring corporations pay their share.

      Click here to tell us your views on what would improve life for you.

      https://unitepolitics.nationbuilder.com/

      Thank you for being a member of Unite the Union.

      In solidarity,

      Pat ************

      Scotland Unite the Union Secretary

      P.S You can see 10 reasons to vote Labour by clicking here

    174. Wee Alex says:

      We are losing the plot over this.

      The nurse may have had to use food banks, her attachment to it being about nurses pay is the problem. The entire public sector has had to endure stagnation due to the austerity measures imposed from Westminster.

      The SNP government has done it’s best to protect the NHS Police, Local Government but is under attack from the right wing, who would privatise and cut services.

      The unions know only too well the truth of it but has to support the Labour Party and in turn attack the SNP, despite them knowing only too well it us the SNP who are protecting the services we all rely on.

      I normally dont like it when everything is compared with theirEnglish couterpart but on this occasion we need o look at the bigger picture.

      Jobs and services have been protected by the SNP, lets get that fact out their.

    175. Terry says:

      Well done rev. I work in financial inclusion and refer to food banks. Shes not typical. And I’m being charitable there.

      But you know what the solution is? Don’t slag that person off on the net – no matter how much it’s deserved. Go out there and canvass for the snp. Or the greens where they are standing – up to you – although I’d suggest the snp is a more realistic horse to back.

      Don’t like canvassing? Deliver leaflets or rock up at a stall. Failing that donate to a food bank. Channel your energies in useful ways and leave the rev to do the needful.

    176. Orri says:

      Got myself confused by which membership Chris Findlay was talking about.

      http://archive.is/OYCrb

      Has some choice morsels….

      Mr Findlay added: “We aren’t going to go away, this is only the beginning. We are going to have more protests, petitions and we will be getting our MSP’s involved.
      “We want thousands of people to be taking part, not just hundreds.”

      And

      Unison branch chair, Tom Waterson, said: “I’m delighted Chris has taken the initiative to get so many nurses from Edinburgh Royal Infirmary to protest against the Westminster imposed one per cent.
      “Unison Scotland does not agree with the pay review body and has taken a conference decision that we can remove ourselves from the pay review body and would urge all trade unions to join us in getting back to proper collective bargaining with the Scottish Government.”

      Sounds a bit like the decision for Labour controlled councils to withdraw from Cosla so they could moan about not getting enough funding despite having removed the method for applying for it.

    177. HandandShrimp says:

      Phil

      Indeed, so why is making the mistake that someone is married to a Tory Councillor the basis for such a fevered “evil ultranat smear” frenzy.

      Is being married to a Tory the mark of the Devil? Clearly, not as we were quite relaxed about McGarry.

      There are many things one could say or ascribe to a person that would be upsetting, damaging to their careers, damage marriages etc., but I am not sure that mistaking someone for a wife of a Tory Councillor is one of them…being mistaken for Myra Hindley on the other hand probably is one of them.

      I despair at the lack proportion in the press. Indeed in this instance it is so disproportionate as to appear utterly contrived.

    178. Clive Scott says:

      It should be a condition of SNP membership that you undertake to cancel the BBC tax. I did in 2014 out of disgust at the BBC referendum campaign and would urge all Indy supporters to do likewise. The BBC is simply a state propagandist organisation that North Korea envy.

    179. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Orri @ 18:41,

      It must be galling for unions to know that they would get a better deal from the SG than a Tory UKGov, yet somehow just can’t recognise that there will be a Tory UKGov receding into the distant future and just can’t help themselves from vainly pouring money and support into Labour, even north of the border where the party is slowly withering away to insignificance.

      Curious too to see via one of those links upthread that Corbynites down south now seem very keen to attack Greens and other remainers, despite all that “progressive alliance” talk. But I suppose it wasn’t very likely that Labour exceptionalism only existed north of the border.

    180. JLT says:

      To be honest, the fiasco over Claire Austin is nothing but a side show now. It’s pointless. The lady went on to air a grievance, but didn’t expect the tsunami of questions, investigations, accusations and trolling. She’s gone. She’ll never stick her head above the parapet again. To do so a second time without explaining her grievances properly to the public (and with proof) will only lead to a volley of deep anger and serious accusations. We’ll never hear a peep from Nurse Austin again.

      However …there is the BBC. They caused all this and it they who should be held accountable. And it now makes Donalda MacKinnon, the BBC Scotland’s director who was appointed last year and who ‘promised to address the lack of trust felt by a ‘significant number’ of people following the independence referendum’ …especially Scottish nationalists. Well …that promise lies in tatters. She’ll never be trusted again by half of the Scottish electorate.

      The SNP to be honest, really need to bring the BBC to task over this, and do so publicly. Even many Unionists mistrust the BBC (my parents are Unionists and they hate the BBC. They believe the Tories get too much airtime and that the focus is always on London).

      Hopefully, this issue with the BBC isn’t allowed to just dissipate. Hopefully, Donalda and Co will be dragged to Holyrood to explain exactly what happened last Sunday. And why not …lets bring Jackie Bird and Sarah Smith along too. They might just be able to shed some more light on who told them to do what. I’m dying to put Smith in front of a committee and have questions put to her asking why she gave permission for questions around devolved issues to be allowed. If she says she didn’t realise, then she’s just admitted publicly that she’s incompetent. If she said she was told to allow the questions to be given airtime …then who authorised it?

    181. lumilumi says:

      @ Cameron Brodie, 6.02pm

      “I think foodbanks are absolutely fantastic…it’s what human is all about” – Jacob Rees Mogg

      I caught this on Rev Stu’s twitter feed. The YT vid seems to be some sort of local GE hustings.

      My first reaction was “what century is this person on?” Second reaction, why do so many people want to be there with him?

      He, while being a real person in the here and now, comes across as a caricature of an entitled upper-class English person c. 100 or 200 years ago.

      That’s key. He represents “the good old times”. Besides his rich aristocratic and “landed gentry” friends, he appeals to fans of Downton Abbey, people who like the old order, who (mistakenly) think they’d be “upstairs”, not “downstairs”, like 95% of people were.

      J R-M represents a fantasy that people can be like him if they vote for him, join the club… But you can never join the club if you aren’t born into the right family and wealth. Well, you could (grudgingly) be accepted if you’re fabulously rich enough and accept all the social norms and snobbery and marry your kids in the right families. Trying to “social climb” into the elite.

      I’m no great fan of the monarchy but I feel a teensy bit sorry for the rich middle-class girl that married the prince. Especially the way the tabloids and the public who take their lead from them, treat her family. English snobbery at its finest, perpetuated by working classes, lower middle-class. Jesus wept.

      The same attitudes are present in Scotland but to a significantly lesser degree. Due to history, due to universal education, due to old clan ties, whatever the reasons are, but modern Scotland’s outlook is once again different from the English outlook.

      I mean, who in Scotland would take Jacob Rees-Mogg seriously? Not even tory unionists, I bet.

    182. Weechid says:

      sassenach says:

      23 May, 2017 at 1:13 pm

      “O/T

      Good God, just seen that the ‘Poisoned Dwarf’ has now become Leader of Dumfries council – yikes!”

      How did that happen? SNP newcomer Trcey Little gets to be Provost though.

    183. Thepnr says:

      @AlbertaScot

      It’s not just the police who are failing due to falling numbers nor the English NHS. Prisons and the running of them are now an absolute disaster area.

      From the Guardian this month:

      “Suicides reached 119, the highest since records began in 1978. That means a prisoner kills themselves every three days.”

      “Since 2010, according to Full Fact, the number of frontline prison officers has been cut from 19,900 to 14,700 full-time equivalents, as the prison population continues to climb.”

      “The government has allowed prisons to become dirty, frightening and dangerous. Since 1990 the number of prisoners has almost doubled to around 85,000.”

      https://archive.is/kO44d

    184. Dan Huil says:

      The bbc loves Mogg, Johnson etc. What larks!

    185. AlbertaScot says:

      And this just in from the MI5 website:

      “Current threat from international terrorism

      The current threat level for international terrorism in the UK is SEVERE.”

      Doesn’t seem like the best of times to whack 2,000 FTEs from the Greater Manchester Police.

      But what do I know, I’m just a dumb Canucklehead and not a genius like Therese Mayhem.

      There are a bunch of grieving parents today who likely deserve a few straight answers. Just sayin’.

    186. Capella says:

      I quite like JRM in an English archetypal sort of way – like Bertie Wooster. Paul Nuttall also. Of course, they should never get anywhere near power. But a good TV sitcom built around their personas would probably be very popular – in England.

    187. Rock says:

      Did the “independence supporting” The National put the record straight and ask the right questions?

    188. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert J. Sutherland
      If true, that suggests to me that someone has decided that competing with the Tories for the votes of English isolationists, is more worthwhile than a progressive alliance with other parties. I would associate such a decision with the Fabian society. It pretty sure it would get the support of “Bomber” Ben.

    189. Shinty says:

      Capella says:
      23 May, 2017 at 7:58 pm
      I quite like JRM in an English archetypal sort of way

      I agree Capella, it’s the ‘hangers on’ like IDS etc who I despise.

    190. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      A question needs to be asked of another participant in the TV debate, and unlike the nurse, that person is not mysteriously unavailable:

      Kezia Dugdale, did you have advance knowledge of that nurse questioner and her question?

      And for that matter, did you also have advance notice of that teacher and her own off-topic question?

    191. Glamaig says:

      Capella says:

      ‘I quite like JRM in an English archetypal sort of way ‘

      I agree, I think he is quite entertaining, its almost like watching a different species.

    192. Thepnr says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      Naw no way, never, never in a million years. Well OK mibbee.

    193. jfngw says:

      I predicted a couple of weeks ago that a ‘top’ journalist at the Herald would produce a story on Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh at least once a week, I have not been proven wrong so far. The current one is the mention of a lawfirm going into liquidation (a few lines), then a full review of all the previous stories. This person seems to have an unhealthy pre-occupation with female SNP MP/MSP’s.

    194. lumilumi says:

      @ thepnr above

      Prisoners kill themselves, isn’t that a tory policy, or at least their desired outcome?

      One REALLY big gripe I have is that prisoners are denied the vote in the UK. That last happened in my country (100 years independent this year) shortly after our civil war (1918). Known Red leaders were denied the vote, the communist party was outlawed.

      A few years later, civil rights were restored, on EVERY citizen. Even prisoners. In my country, denying voting rights to prisoners would be an outrage. Fascist. They’re one of us, one of our citizenry, our population. A tiny proportion, denying their voting rights won’t affect GE results, the parties trying to gain power. Most prisoners don’t vote, anyway. But the idea is to treat them as members of our society, engage them, give them voice.

      The British way (and Scotland is part of it) seems to be to punish and punish and exclude people from society.

    195. AlbertaScot says:

      From GMP’s North West Counter Terrorism Unit page:

      “Intelligence is gathered by both overt and covert methods. It is then assessed, evaluated, analysed and disseminated and is used to inform both Police Forces and the Security Service about threats from groups and individuals regarding national security and domestic extremism issues.”

      Can’t seem to crack just how many of these guys are still on the job today following the Tory’s England police cuts. Hen’s teeth and all that.

      Before and after would be a valuable stat to have to put May-Day May-Day Mayhem’s election campaign in perspective. No?

    196. HandandShrimp says:

      JRM is a PG Wodehouse character straight out of the 1920s/30s.

      He is actually good TV and he can articulate an argument. I like him but only as a commentator Heaven forefend he might ever be in power.

    197. heedtracker says:

      You have to check the Project Fear dates but anyone for another vote No or else Graun slam?

      Graun ligger says Scotland’s was bust 2014 and even more bust today. Why does nation state Scotland have to have a balanced budget, yet the UK certainly doesnt now and hardly ever does, is not addressed by this fiscal genius. The terrible burden of all that not Scottish oil.

      http://archive.is/8fDJw

      “Back then, the Scottish National party said a post-independence Scotland would continue to use the pound sterling. The economic logic looked weak at the time, and remains so: Scotland would be embracing a currency union that could damage its own competitiveness at the moment of separation and make balancing the budget harder, especially if the oil price was low.”

    198. Shinty says:

      Heedtracker – also read just the other day that Moody’s have set a junk status on an iScotland

      Whatever these guys are on, they’ve been had.

    199. Bob Mack says:

      I notice that nobody has mentioned the latest report from the School inspectors in England. Boy is it a doozy.

      I think it is the OEPD, which found that more children than ever in England are leaving school totally illiterate. Of course it seems to be a Scottish problem only doesn’t it ?

    200. heedtracker says:

      Rees Mogg’s just another rich tory that dumped the bed room tax on the poorest, his family’s net worth is only £150 million, meanwhile his house needed renovated so,

      https://www.thecanary.co/2016/12/05/one-tory-mp-just-received-7-6-million-bonus-chancellor/

    201. Bob Mack says:

      Just to add that they found 17% of 17 to 19 year old youngsters left school functionally illiterate in England

    202. Artyhetty says:

      re;Lumilumi@8.25

      Actually the SNP Scotgov I presume have no power to give prisoners the vote. Is it devolved anyone know?

      Also the SNP Scotgov do in fact attempt to reduce the prison population and to rehabilitate where possible. Levels of crime have gone down in Scotland in the last ten years. However, we do not really have any effective maritime police guarding our waters, so that is a problem, again, that side of things is reserved to WM. We are surrounded by sea.

      The UKGov have never been keen to tackle the actual causes of crime.

      Re;jfngw@8.22

      Maybe the Herald ‘journalist’ is on performance related pay, or special bonus pay for scraping the barrel. Hopefully they will find it is just full of their own dirt though.

    203. Michael McCourt says:

      I think that in the present crisis we
      should seriously consider suspending the upcoming
      election until things have settled down
      and we all find out what is “TRUE” or “not”.
      After all these are, “serious” times we are living in.

    204. arthur thomson says:

      @ Clydebuilt 5.27

      We should know if there is any truth in this. The great white hope of Unionism, Andrew Neil, should be tasked with publicly interrogating Jeane Freeman about this. Then we could all enjoy watching him getting his arse on a plate like he did the last time he interviewed her. Lol.

    205. Glamaig says:

      Shinty at 8:44 pm
      ‘also read just the other day that Moody’s have set a junk status on an iScotland’

      where did you read that? They have even Greece at Caa Stable. One of the agencies gave us AAA in 2014.

    206. lumilumi says:

      @HandandShrimp, Capella and others.

      Jacob Rees-Mogg is not amusing. He comes across as a total throw-back. A twit/twat character from Downton Abbey or some BBC costume drama.

      However, he has power. He’s an MP, a backbencher who gets more media exposure than most backbenchers, even some frontbenchers. He gets his message out there. He’s helped by the BBC and other MSM, who try to train us to think the JRM way. Oiks in their place (foodbanks are good), Jocks in their place, etc.

      We might well laugh at the ridiculousness of JRM but we’re the minority. He’s been so bigged up by the UK media that he’s practically a hero. Someone who stands up for the Empire and the good old times.

      I wish it all would backfire, but I’m not all that hopeful, what with the UK press.

    207. Glamaig says:

      re credit ratings, having read a bit more, Greece is Caa3, ‘in default with little prospect for recovery’. Ouch.

      Ive found the ‘junk’ warnings in the Express and Times. Seems a bit harsh as a change from AAA in 2014.

    208. Shinty says:

      Glamaig -https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/3006760/moodys-warns-scotland-exit-could-leave-country-facing-junk-rating

    209. crazycat says:

      @ Effijy at 6.33

      I also received that survey from Unite.

      Did you click on the link to “10 reasons to vote Labour”?
      There are only 5.

      (Only Labour deserves our vote, apparently.)

      I replied to Pat and told him there are in fact 0 reasons for voting Labour. I doubt if he will respond.

    210. Effijy says:

      I recall Jocob Rees Mogg’s father defending another of the corrupt Tory boy, a Lord King, who was caught out on a fraud that sent a percentage of phone calls that were intended for Virgin Atlantic Airways, to British Airways, who Lord King was Lording over.

      Old Rees Mogg said that the fraud was justifiable as British Airways was part of the fabric of the UK?

      Being a crook when you are an old Etonian is fine.

      Old Branson has now weaselled his way into the cabal as he has already received a couple of £Billion of NHS Contracts
      for his Virgin Care Company.

    211. jfngw says:

      @lumilumi

      Well BBC 4 does still run repeats of ‘The Good Old Days’. JRM would make the perfect replacement for Leonard Sachs (all that vocabulary nonsense he so enjoys), maybe it would be a better place for him.

    212. Robbo says:

      Shinty says:
      23 May, 2017 at 9:13 pm
      Glamaig -https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/3006760/moodys-warns-scotland-exit-could-leave-country-facing-junk-rating

      Who gives a toss. When our Independence comes we’ll be fine with our new currency the “smackarooney”.LOL The Chinese and Japan will love them and buy loads.So will the Yanks. The pound will be dead.

    213. Paula Rose says:

      Totally O/T – just waving wildly and blowing kisses at limilumi.

    214. Thepnr says:

      Re Credit rating for an Independent Scotland, take all talk now with a pinch of salt. Here’s what Moodys said in 2014

      https://archive.is/yY2nB

      Also Standard and Poors in the same year

      https://archive.is/7fOzj

      The fact is that these rating agencies are basically worthless when it comes to actually rating the financial strength of companies or countries.

      In the run-up to 2008, a staggering proportion of mortgage-based debts were rated AAA, when in fact they were junk. The same goes for groups such as Enron, Lehman Brothers and AIG. Days before they went bust, Moody’s, S&P, and Fitch all still rated these failing companies as safe investments.

      https://archive.is/nkFUk

    215. Paula Rose says:

      Eek all embarrassed – typo *hides*

    216. heedtracker says:

      And Lord King wiped Air Caledonia off the map, at the behest of St Thatcher, cant allow the jocks their own national airline. He was a ferocious tory thug that one.

      Look what Aer Lingus has done for Ireland. You can check in to the USA, at Shannon airport. Nation statehood really is another world. Wish they all could be Caledonian.

    217. Glamaig says:

      Robbo says: at 9:24 pm

      cheers. More research (always recommended *before* typing) tells me ‘junk’ actually means ‘speculative’ and we only got ‘A’ in 2014.

      Anyway I would rather be a bit poorer temporarily ‘with a bit of pride upon the shelf’ than be a nation forever cringing. I think we would spread what we have a bit more fairly than the UK currently does.

    218. Robbo says:

      Well there you have it, here we go. Threat level increased to critical and troops on the street supporting police. TM just said on telly.

      You won’t see much or get near her noo i fear during the election campaign if it does go ahead??

    219. Robert Peffers says:

      @Phil Robertson says: 23 May, 2017 at 5:34 pm:

      “Not as sad as the wee laddies hiding behind their (unamusing) pseudonyms who can do no more than indulge in personal abuse.”

      For someone complaining about personal abuse, Phil that seems rather like a very childish, primary school style, “My Dad’s bigger than your Dad Na-na-na-na-nanna!”, kind of retort.

      I cannot recall a really adult, clearly stated, and reasoned comment ever made by you on Wings.

    220. lumilumi says:

      Ah, hahaha. Paula Rose, I was getting all puffed up with indignation that you spelled my nic wrong… but you corrected yourself, and I’m left with all this fake indignation with nowhere to go… Direct it at the SNP, as the MSM tells us to do?

      Hahahahaaah haha ha.

      No, I’ll direct it at the BBC, the woefully inadequate, incompetent unionist politicians and their toadying Scottish MSM. That I can grimly laugh about.

    221. AlbertaScot says:

      And this from Comrade Jeremy’s Election Manifesto:

      “Labour will recruit 10,000 more police officers to work on community beats, equivalent to at least one more for every neighbourhood in the country.”

      I know JC is a goofy old 70s Lefty and quite capable of stepping in a pasture pizza before the election runs out of gas.

      But if he doesn’t exploit this one after the campaign is un-paused then he really is thicker than a brick.

      C’mon the hung Parliament. With Queen Nik the king maker.

      And how ’bout Sinn Fein lying in the thistles somewhere.

      Is it just me but doesn’t Michelle O’Neill have a lot of mo going for her?

    222. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Keep digging away, Stu.

      BBC has been caught red handed manipulating audiences and using plants and this is the big story.

      There is a huge scandal here and we should concentrate on it for some time to remove any respect for the BBC’s standards and expose its dishonesty. Sarah Smith should be pilloried. She is not on the BBC to be a respected and balanced journalist. She is on the BBC knowingly to damage the SNP. We can all play the game.

      What we are seeing at the moment is a desperate fire fighting effort by the media and the BBC to repair huge damage that has been done to them by their nursie conspiracy being found out.
      This is not the time to let them off the hook. This is a huge opportunity for us.
      And the more they try to sort it the more they draw attention to it. So we have to make sure they are hit with it as often as we can.

      From the SNP point of view the only story is that though funded on an equal per capita basis from the same source the staff in NHS Scotland get paid more than the staff in England.
      Establishing that is all that is important.

      To the faint hearts who swallow the media attacks on Stu and worry about it I would point out that this is merely testament to how much damage he is doing to them. The more they attack the more we know what he is doing for us.

      The Daily Record today carried Kezia’s weekly (and weakly)bleat. In it she says the SNP had “abused” nursie. That is exactly what she said. This is completely untrue.

      I will be contacting the Press Complaints Commission. I think the SNP should do the same.

    223. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT and possibly a bit ‘rude’ for some who might want to just skip past this post. You’ve been warned. 😉

      Swearing: big, clever and popular. Agreed, when done with skill and good timing.
      Dropping the “C” word: I try not to as I know it still offends many. I know it shouldn’t, so does that make me a snowflake pussy? Probably. 🙂

      N.B. To those who object to feminism, there would be no Queer Theory without Feminist Theory and probably no equal rights to marry. Don’t knock something just because it is supported by a few dicks with strange ideas.

      Here’s a couple of searches, first from the search “Feminism and the use of the word cunt”. Second search “Critical Theory and the use of the word cunt”. Enjoy. 🙂

      http://jezebel.com/5987317/cunt-should-not-be-a-bad-word

      http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/laurie-penny/2011/02/sexual-power-word-cunt-hint

      —————————————————

      WHY WE CURSE
      A NEURO-PSYCHO-SOCIAL THEORY OF SPEECH

      https://web.stanford.edu/class/linguist1/Rdgs/jay00.pdf

      http://www.critical-theory.com/what-the-fuck-is-queer-theory/

    224. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The Press Complaints Commission has been replaced by by IPSO http://www.ipso.co.uk/

    225. joolz says:

      In the final ‘behind the scenes’ section, Jackie Bird let the BBC’s position slip. She referred to the nurse as “nurse lobbyist”.

      So the BBC clearly knew beforehand that she wasn’t a regular nurse but also a lobbyist. Presumably for the Tories.

    226. Free Scotland says:

      Re kids leaving school functionally illiterate, have you noticed what kids do on their way to school? Oblivious to dog’s crap on the pavement or possible sinkholes or other pedestrians, they walk with bent necks, staring into their precious wee mobiles, playing the latest equivalent of flappy bird or mucking about with snapchat.

      They arrive in school, make their way to their period-1 class and, within a minute or two of having heard the bell ring (which means that they definitely know what time it is), they sneak the phone out of their pocket for a fly peek and, when the teacher gives them a ticking off, they claim they were just checking the time. This excuse is repeated ad nauseum throughout the day, in spite of the fact that there is a clock on the wall of each classroom.

      Interval arrives and little groups of kids appear in and around the school, not to pick teams for a quick wee game o’ footie, but to huddle round somebody’s mobile and share who knows what kind of crap they’ve found on the internet.

      They live in a wee bubble where spelling doesn’t matter, and when they sit their higher exams and still can’t distinguish “to” from “too” or “two,” and are equally clueless about “they’re” “their” and “there,” who cares? The exam marking schemes are so easy-ozy about such stuff that they’ll sail off to uni and still won’t know it ten years later.

    227. ronnie anderson says:

      The heid of the Cobra goes to Manchester to thank the Doctors/Nurse’s/Police & all emergency services.

      Question is Mrs May what value do you put in the said People NOT VERY MUCH when YOU & YOUR GOVERNMENT WONT PAY THEM A DECENT WAGE.

      FUCKINGG HYPOCRITE .

    228. Paula Rose says:

      lumilumi meet me in off topic got something for you xx

    229. geeo says:

      Troops on streets and at public events now !!

      Theresa May desperate to call martial law next !!

      So, come the weekend, there are armed troops at the cup final and a massive fan riot breaks out, then what ?

      Open fire on them ?

    230. K1 says:

      Too right Ronnie, shower of fucking Tory scum.

    231. Lenny Hartley says:

      Be interesting to see if the opinion polls move back to the Tories, if not, probably the ge will be suspended due to national emergency until they can put out even more Corbyn supports terrorists propaganda.

    232. AlbertaScot says:

      More from the election gift that keeps on giving.

      Here’s an excerpt from Andy Burnham’s Manchester mayor manifesto:

      “Safety and security

      We will do more to protect our police force against cuts.

      We will recruit more police officers and protect neighbourhood policing teams from any further reduction in numbers.

      We want to provide new opportunities for young people to join the police and contribute to making our communities safer and more secure.

      We will support the expansion of the cadet and apprenticeship schemes in Greater Manchester Police, creating real opportunities for young people.”

      Jezza, the law-and-order candidate. I know it’s a big ask, but why not?

    233. Robert Peffers says:

      @ronnie anderson says: 23 May, 2017 at 10:17 pm:

      “The heid of the Cobra goes to Manchester to thank the Doctors/Nurse’s/Police & all emergency services.
      Question is Mrs May what value do you put in the said People NOT VERY MUCH when YOU & YOUR GOVERNMENT WONT PAY THEM A DECENT WAGE.
      FUCKINGG HYPOCRITE .”

      Right on the money there, Ronnie.

      Fat lot of good it will do for some poor mother who has lost a child or someone who lost a partner, or someone who lost a limb. I expect we will have some of the Royals trotting along to comfort the poor well quite soon. Mind you they will make sure all the blood is washed away before they get anywhere near it.

      Dragging a whole load of well armed and flack jacketed security bods with them that would have been better employed as security at the scene of the terrorist attack.

    234. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      joolz @ 22:16,

      Au contraire, this has all the hallmarks of a Labour setup. Why is The Daily Record desperately trying to deflect onto the SNP now? Which party are they and Sarah Smith a supporter of? They’re the ones trying to involve the health sector. Which of course they rightly can in England, since they only have Westminster to depend upon. But mee-too Kez just has to try to get involved with the issue as best she can. That is to say, very badly. As usual. (Even with the help of a few friends.)

    235. ScottieDog says:

      Struggling with the world tonight and thought I’d post this link.
      Wonderful words from ‘Time’ with Laurence Olivier…
      Best wishes to all

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWXAiLy786A

    236. Hamish100 says:

      Cameron b Brodie

      Honestly you shouldn’t have bothered. Big boy can swear. Wow.

      You shouldn’t have bothered. Not sure what your point is about?

      Promoting independence?

    237. Robert Peffers says:

      I was having a wee review of recent YouTube Clips and the first couple were parts 1 + 2 of the BBC Scottish Leaders’ Debate.

      Anyone else thing that Big Brian’s preamble as requested by, “The Burd”, at the start of part 1 suggests he knew what was coming?

      Anyway, for those who have not yet seen the thing right through, I’ll leave the links here :-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTTfjttD9l4

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7r-nWQc23k

    238. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      T May cobra comm have moved the threat level from Severe to Critical , the only reason to justify any upgrade in security is with advance intelligence , but given that no other events are being called of is T May playing on people’s fears to avoid being questioned & making appearances No campaigning No scrutiny of her speeches .

    239. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hamish100
      I was offering defense for the Rev’s choice of vocabulary, as there are a lot of folk who are offended but language that challenges cultural norms.

      —————————–

      Sorry but I think this is important enough for me to be accurate.

      Dropping the “C” word: I try not to as I know it still offends many. I know I shouldn’t be restricted in this fashion…

    240. JGedd says:

      Heedtracker @9.30pm

      Sorry, Aer Lingus is no longer Ireland’s national airline. It is now owned almost wholly by British Airways group, despite Aer Lingus fighting a dogged rearguard action against takeover for many years. The Irish government eventually sold out their shares to the British Airways grouping.

    241. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi heedtracker.

      You typed on May, 2017 at 9:30 pm…

      “Wish they all could be Caledonian.”

      Specially for you…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzgEy9WPgrY23

    242. CameronB Brodie says:

      Hamish100
      That omission in my original post may have thrown you. I was also following the Rev.’s twitter.

    243. heedtracker says:

      JGedd says:
      23 May, 2017 at 11:39 pm
      Heedtracker @9.30pm

      Dont be sorry JGedd. If BA close Aer Lingus down, like they did Air Caledonia, then come and tell me you’re sorry:D

    244. Grouse Beater says:

      Some thoughts on terrorism: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-2rF

    245. AlbertaScot says:

      Well I guess this is probably as close to an admission of guilt from the Tories as we’re going to get for scorched-earthing English police budgets.

      Not enough cops left to do the job. Call in the squaddies who may or may not be up to speed on crowd control, human rights, etc.

      Here’s a little of Mayhem’s speech this PM:

      “The change in the threat level means that there will be additional resources and support made available to the police as they work to keep us all safe.

      As a result of the JTAC’s decision, the police have asked for authorisation from the Secretary of State for Defence to deploy a number of armed military personnel in support of their armed officers.

      This request is part of a well-established plan, known as Operation Temperer, in which both the armed forces and the police officers involved are well-trained and well-prepared to work in this kind of environment.

      The Secretary of State for Defence has approved this request, and Operation Temperer is now in force.

      This means that armed police officers responsible for duties such as guarding key sites will be replaced by members of the armed forces, which will allow the police to significantly increase the number of armed officers on patrol in key locations.

      You might also see military personnel deployed at certain events, such as concerts and sports matches, helping the police to keep the public safe.

      In all circumstances, members of the armed forces who are deployed in this way will be under the command of police officers.”

      It’s like closing the corral gate after the colts have run off.

      Unbelievable.

      Oh ya, the greasy Met guy Rowley (that’s London, right?) says it’s a “national” issue so it looks like the London cops are going to have the run of Police Scotland for the next little while.

      It just keeps getting better and better.

    246. JGedd says:

      heedtracker @ 11.59pm

      Why so snippy? The only point I was making was that sadly the Irish government gave into pressure. It was not in contention with your point. It was just a point of information regarding Aer Lingus. Next time I won’t bother. Good night.

    247. Still Positive says:

      Testing.

    248. defo says:

      Martin-
      “INdeed, but go after the BBC,not her. People are just giving fuel to the unionists fire. I honestly thought we’d gone beyond being that stupid.”

      How stupid would you have to be, to believe that they liked you sooo much, that they would love it if you came on the Leaders ‘Debate’, and then ‘randomly, tee hee’ get picked out to ask your question. Knowing it is irrelevant to the debate ?

      This has clearly been deduced by the sentient to be mere diversion, & we seem to agree that Auntie has been caught with her knickers down, again.
      And this obviously political lady didn’t play an active, knowing part in PQs shenanigans ? Meh ! To the max.

      In less peaceable revolutions, this sort of carry on wouldn’t have ended well. For anybody.

      Voice in Dimblebys earpiece- “…near the lady with shocking red hair,NOT her though”
      “We’ve got a very cunning plan for her, and she hasn’t a scooby!” thought Agent Baldrick.

      Pass, on a question that has negative connotations for the Tories in one debate, and save it for another where it will (unfairly) be smeared on the Nats.
      And all with Lee Harvey Oswald stylee inbuilt squirrel. Genius

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1522875/Revealed-how-the-BBC-used-MI5-to-vet-thousands-of-staff.html

      “The BBC tried on several occasions to be more open about the system, but was blocked by the Security Service. A memo, dated March 7 1985, states: “Secrecy of the complete vetting operation is imposed upon us by the Security Service – it is not of our making.”

    249. Chick McGregor says:

      CammyB

      The first printed usage of the F and C words was by Scots Makars.

      Its a cult thing. 🙂

    250. CameronB Brodie says:

      ….does that make me a snowflake pussy?

      Perhaps sensitive of the values of others in a way that doesn’t require the support of those values, whilst not undermine the opportunity for further discourse.

      As with all things political, swearing is a matter of context and judgement.

      Which leads me to “Yoon”. I’ve been wondering if the power and usefulness of the underlying aesthetic will continue to work in our favour up until we win indy. I’ve just started thinking so have no opinion.

    251. CameronB Brodie says:

      Chick
      🙂

    252. CameronB Brodie says:

      Perhaps sensitive of the values of others in a way that doesn’t require the support of those values, ….

      Perhaps this ‘sensitivity’ supports structural gender inequalities underpinning wider social inequalities? Perhaps… Oh my brain hurts. 🙂

    253. Inkall says:

      While it’s an interesting discussion to have CameronB you probably shouldn’t post links to jezebel, they are the daily mail of ridiculous internet feminism..

    254. ian murray says:

      There are very few places to complain to that will result in a significant change in the way things are going.
      The BBC will continue to rig their story lines and Question Times to support the Tories or Labour and despite Donalda pledging a brave new world from the BBC it is probably worse since she took over.It will continue to get worse because they will all be out of a job when Independence arrives.
      Breaches of Purdah, Westminster have nothing to lose especially for the Indy referendum, it will all be over bar the shouting

    255. CameronB Brodie says:

      Inkall
      They were the first two results in each search. I would have posted another result for each search but I knew that number of links would be binned by the wordpress pixies. I made no qualitative judgement in the selection. Blame my search engine “Startpage”.

      N.B. I disregarded the ‘Tracey Emin’ essay in the Critical search, as I think she is a right pain in the tits, frankly.

    256. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. Thanks for the tip. 😉

    257. boris says:

      I am profiling Grace O’keeffee who is the Tory candidate for Aberdeen North. She lives out of Aberdeen near Inverurie. I think she resides at the family home. Her mother’s given names are Julia Margaret. I do not know her maiden name. Grace was born somewhere on 20 Jun 1992. I have searched for hours and have not been able to track down her place of birth. Anticipating someone better versed than me will be able to get me an answer. Thanks.

    258. Fred says:

      Remember the cheers for Hillary Benn when he joined the Tories & voted for the illegal bombing of Syria? Remember the cheering, remember Hillary Benn!

    259. Robert Peffers says:

      @AlbertaScot says: 24 May, 2017 at 12:07 am:

      ” … Oh ya, the greasy Met guy Rowley (that’s London, right?) says it’s a “national” issue so it looks like the London cops are going to have the run of Police Scotland for the next little while. … “

      Nail on the head, AlbertaScot, we are effectively now under, “Marital Rule”, but without a formal declaration of Marital Law:-

      “Under a declaration of martial law, Constitutional freedoms and liberties are suspended, and civilians are no longer entitled to their civil rights. It basically allows the government, or a tyrannical politician, to shred the Constitution and impose its will through military force.”

    260. Dorothy Devine says:

      Mr Peffers , I have been under ‘marital law’ for some 50 years!

    261. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dorothy Devine says: 24 May, 2017 at 7:18 am:

      “Mr Peffers , I have been under ‘marital law’ for some 50 years.

      ;-))

      I was waiting for the correction, Dorothy. I did not expect it to be so prompt. I did a Google to get a definition of the term and it came up with a USA definition and I pasted it into a blockquote and clicked the send button just as I, too late, noticed the spelling.

      I did not expect such a prompt correction, though.

      Anyway, it basically perhaps comes to the same thing in practice.

      I come from a time when few husbands would dare take an opened pay packet home to, “The Wife”.
      ;-))

    262. Undeadshaun says:

      The scaling up of troops on streeets has nothing to do with tinfoil conspiracies and everything to do with the leaking by trumps incompitent administration of the terrorists name before his contacts could be fully investigated.

      https://archive.is/tXhDH

    263. Dan Huil says:

      @AlbertaScot 12:07pm

      Interesting post. British soldiers outside all polling stations in Scotland?

    264. admiral says:

      ronnie anderson says:

      23 May, 2017 at 11:37 pm

      @ Robert Peffers

      T May cobra comm have moved the threat level from Severe to Critical , the only reason to justify any upgrade in security is with advance intelligence , but given that no other events are being called of is T May playing on people’s fears to avoid being questioned & making appearances No campaigning No scrutiny of her speeches .

      I wonder how far away May is from declaring a national emergency and postponing the election “until further notice”. With no House of Commons to bother about, she would become de facto dictator of Britain*.

      I also wonder about how “strong and stable” May is, because she was a ghastly failure as Home Secretary, immigration targets not met, police budgets cut to shreds.

      Now she is PM, she is in charge of the security services – so this terrorist attack by someone “known to securiry services” happened on her watch and she should be held accountable (but won’t be).

      *PS Just amusing myself with the thought, but you never know…

    265. admiral says:

      “Dan Huil says:

      24 May, 2017 at 7:35 am

      @AlbertaScot 12:07pm

      Interesting post. British soldiers outside all polling stations in Scotland?”

      Ruth the Mooth’s “burly men outside polling places” comes to pass… 🙂

    266. admiral says:

      I wonder if anyone can analyse the monstering of Joanna Cherry by the MSM because of the mild, mistaken tweet about a person marital status, which she immediately apologised for, with the conspiracy of silence over the hateful xenophobic, sectarian, bigoted bile on Twitter that has issued forth from Yoon council candidates, never mind the outright incitement to violence that many advocated.

    267. Nana says:

      Links

      FM: be vigilant but not alarmed as terror threat level raised to ‘critical’.
      https://news.gov.scot/news/scotland-open-for-business

      http://newsnet.scot/archive/tories-gamed-devolution-cant-let-win/

      Record high for foreign investment in Scotland
      http://archive.is/ZFZiD

      The nuclear question on the Clyde
      http://archive.is/GdtVf

    268. Dorothy Devine says:

      Mr Peffers , old age makes for early risers !

      I used to go home to Aberdeen to ‘look after’ my gran when my mum went on holiday. She rose at 6.30 every morning and considered the rest of the world should be up ,about and doing no later than 8a.m.

      I couldn’t understand or appreciate that as a slothful young ‘un , but now find myself behaving in much the same manner as my gran!

    269. Jim says:

      I don’t get wage rises in line with inflation, I have 2 children, a mortgage and fotunately so far have never had or felt the need to visit a food bank.

      I earn nowhere near as much as a nurse of whichever band pay they are on but my kids are fed, get a good education, they are clothed quite decently and they have a roof over their heads which will hopefully be their’s once it is paid and my time is past.

      I don’t feel or think I am poor, maybe I am depending on who I compare myself to but I look at those that do need food banks, can’t clothe their children properly and live in squalid conditions where kids education and the time to do homework with them is not their parent’s number one priority.

      At the moment I can survive, circumstances change but we should not take our eye off the ball regarding real poverty which is what is happening here; poverty does not equate to not being unable to afford a new car, eat in the finest restaurants or have foreign holidays once or twice a year.

    270. admiral says:

      “Nana says:

      24 May, 2017 at 7:53 am

      Archive does not catch the independent articles.
      Remember folks this woman wants to end intelligence sharing with EU countries, strong and stable my rear end”

      Remember too, the nasty besom threatened to not share intelligence about terrorism if the rest of the EU didn’t kow-tow to her over her Brexit demands.

      She doesn’t care about Yemeni children being bombed to bits by Saudi bombs being supplied by the UK, and she wouldn’t care about children in the rest of the EU being attacked if she can’t get her way. She doesn’t care about Syrian children being maimed and murdered because of the Saudi-funded ISIS civil war.

      Christian woman my rear end.

    271. Jim says:

      P.S

      I have no sympathy for the pseudo-poor and neither should anyone else.

    272. Juan P says:

      If she is using foodbanks she needs to reconsider her spending priorities on ebay.

      http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=clairenursey&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true&rt=nc

      How much lingerie is too much when you can’t afford food for you and your kids?

    273. If Theresa May has to use the Army to do the work of the Police then that is evidence of the failure of the Tory Gov policies who have cut the numbers of police over the years, much of which were when she was Home Secretary.

    274. Macart says:

      Thanks Nana.

      Brekkie reading sorted. 🙂

      I saw a post from the Rev on twitter yesterday which sums up the hypocrisy of the entire episode.

      It went along the lines of: Nats pouring through the subject’s online profile is hounding, monstering, abusive. Media tearing your life apart are ‘keen to pursue further detail’ sorta thing.

      The whole story is a five minute wonder. Just another day in the lives of yoonstream meeja. Willing participant takes a swipe at popular public figure. Sit back and wait for fireworks and ready, steady headline. Oh and when the participant apparently has an idea of her target as ‘wee Jimmy Krankie’, its hard to accept their participation was about the seeking of answers to questions or issues. Just a thought.

      The principle of double standards behind this story and so many others just like it though? That’s another thing entirely. Tales of the lengths the media will go to for a story are legendary. The lives they’ve literally wrecked, innocent and guilty alike, in pursuit of the next headline would fill libraries. They hold no moral high ground and never will. They’re not fit to wash the feet of their many victims.

      What they do have is a really big soap box and carte blanche to present their view to the world. What they have, is the power to alter opinion, direct populations and cause untold harm. There are no institutions with enough teeth to bring down the worst offenders. They get to carry on regardless and are never truly held to account for the misery they inflict.

      The Tories planning to scrap the second stage of Leveson tells you all you need to know about politically compromised media.

    275. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      The nuclear question on the Clyde
      http://archive.is/GdtVf

      Aye, naebody bullshits quite like the BBC!

      A whole article based on the spin off benefits to the local economy of having a naval base.

      They equate the removal of Trident with the closing of the base.

      Trident will only go in the event of independence. Not once do they point out that in iScotland, Faslane will be used as a major base of the SDF. It might actually mean more jobs.

    276. Jim says:

      @Juan P

      need to reconsider spending priorities.
      ____
      What we all need are the basic human rights/needs of food, fresh water, shelter, clothing, education.

      Let’s get that right then we can worry about wage structures and wage rises.

      At the moment a nurse’s wage is not too bad, could probably be a lot better but at the moment it should not be a huge priority in comparason to those that cannot afford feed or clothe their children adequately!

    277. Brian Powell says:

      On deploying troop there are a few important issues.

      The British army couldn’t cover more than a few cities and would be useless in the real situations as that in Manchester. Terrorists aren’t going to go where there are obvious armed personnel.

      With T May showing very little signs of intelligence on all issues the UK is heading for a dictatorship.

      If on the pretence of a national emergency the UK Government takes over Police Scotland will they take over the NI Police? What about the Republic of Ireland, with it’s border with the north, should it be ‘invaded’ for UK security?

      It’s quite a thought that the TA could be mobilised with Ruth Henderson Davidson as an ‘officer’ with the authority to order, Open fire.

    278. Sinky says:

      Edinburgh Evening News review of Edinburgh South plays up tactical voting for Ian Murray then reproduces Ian Murray’s flawed bar chart which shows Tory 2015 vote of 8600 less than half the size of SNP’s 16,600.

      Labour / MSM have a cheek to go about falling standards in maths.

      However in the words of Baron Foulkes “but they are doing it deliberately”.

    279. Legerwood says:

      O/T

      Donations to the SNP seem to have dried up according to a story in today’s Herald about party donations.

      Does this explain why I did not receive any literature of any description from the SNP during the local elections?

      If so, then I guess I, and many more like me, won’t be getting any leaflets through the door in this election either.

    280. skintybroko says:

      Bob Mack – where can I find the link for the English Literacy figures you quote? How much if this disenfranchisement of the youth provides the cauldron in which the radicals mix their brew of hatred and turn law abiding citizens into suicide bombers?

      We have an ageing population that are to be kept working till they drop and the young are waiting to fill dead mens shoes – what hope have they got of building a decent life for themselves when they are unlikely to get a decent job until they are in their 30’s and even then how do they save for a pension – Westminster policies are driving generations into poverty. We need to be free if their corruption and build a Scotland we can be proud of, where people are regarded as an asset to their country and not just a number to be ignored.

    281. Nana says:

      @Macart

      Nae bother Sam, I should be thanking you for being a brilliant stand in for Wee Ginger. Job very well done!

      @Gala

      Indeed and most folks are still paying for the BBC bullshit.

    282. heedtracker says:

      Thanks for all the news Nana. Tory candidate another predictable tory yoon delight of Britishness, only a tory could say he’s “comfortable” with the end of the world. Although to be fair, a UK nuke strike would probably miss completely and wipe millions of the wrong people. Always amazing how tories get away with it all in Scotland. No small thanks to their gimps like Eardley.

      The nuclear question on the Clyde
      http://archive.is/GdtVf

      “But, we asked him, would he support a Conservative prime minister pressing the nuclear button?

      “If we needed to launch Trident I would be very comfortable with Theresa May taking that decision. But primarily that’s not what Trident is about – Trident is about defence, it’s about deterring people striking at you.”

      The other two candidates here support renewal too.
      Labour’s Michael Kelly used to be against trident, but not now.”

    283. Bob p says:

      Geeo 10.40pm. Well they did on bloody Sunday

    284. Robert Kerr says:

      As always, ask who benefits. “Cui Bono” Thus.

      “L. Cassius ille quem populus Romanus verissimum et sapientissimum iudicem putabat identidem in causis quaerere solebat “cui bono” fuisset.”

      We live in a wilderness of mirrors. God help us all.

    285. Another Union Dividend says:

      Legerwood says:at 8:48 am On non-receipt of leaflets

      It takes best part of 14 days minimum to produce and print leaflets then probably another 14 days to deliver to say 40,000 doors in any constituency.

      Because the election was called at short notice the Royal Mail hasn’t been able to cope with the free election communication that normally goes out from parties before Postal Ballot Papers arrive on doorsteps.

      They couldn’t tell printers until very last minute what the timescale was (as UK Government hadn’t told them in time) and then failed to deliver addressed mailings within the guaranteed three day period, therefore, the bulk of them won’t arrive until after most have voted.

      This is of serious concern and might lead to electoral challenges.

    286. Robbo says:

      Nuclear weapons deter nothing. There is absolutely NO HARD physical evidence anywhere that since the start of the cold war or introduction of these monstrosities that they have deterred anything.

      It’s all nonsence.

      Nuclear weapons have never deterred any invasion/conflict/war since inception.I would like any yoon or pro nuclear activist to prove me otherwise.

    287. Liam says:

      If nothing else the whole nurse thing might serve as a warning to any wannabe yoon stooges. It will weed out the ones with enough nous to realise their moment in the spotlight might not be worth it and only leave the knuckledraggers to serve as media cannon fodder.

    288. Bob p says:

      Dave mcewan Hill 9.58pm. I agree dave,this planted nurse story by the malignant ebc,should be hammered home at every tv debate up to June the 8th.Dont let these slugs wriggle of the hook.

    289. heedtracker says:

      Because the election was called at short notice the Royal Mail hasn’t been able to cope with the free election communication that normally goes out from parties before Postal Ballot Papers arrive on doorsteps.”

      Some voters seem to have thought a June GE might happen, The Guardian explains that,

      “The Conservatives received a huge boost in donations in the three months before Theresa May called a surprise general election, according to figures published by the Electoral Commission.

      The party received £5.46m from January to March this year, more than twice the £2.65m given to Labour.

      By the time the prime minister called the election on 18 April, the Tories had received £1.85m more in donations during the first quarter of the year than it had in the last three months of 2016.”

      Also worth noting, huge tory donations poured in from oil corp CEO’s. All just a coincidence ofcourse.

    290. stu mac says:

      @Chick McGregor
      ==================

      You may or may not be correct about the Scots Makars and the F word but you’re quite wrong about the C word. This was used in Old English and even by Chaucer in the 14th Century – the Makars’ period was 15th and 16th centuries.

    291. David P says:

      O/T

      Ian murray’s official election address arrived a week ago.

    292. stu mac says:

      @Chick McGregor
      ===========

      Ah! Just as I pressed the button I realised you were specifying “in print”. Chaucer was printed in 1476. However since the first printing press in Scotland was in 1507, Chaucer still was earlier.

    293. Fred says:

      “Lets make June the end of May!”

      No bad, not mine!

    294. asklair says:

      Was going to post my views about this situation, fuck it just don’t buy a TV licence or buy into the MSM experience. If you do fund them that’s your problem.

    295. Nana says:

      Call Kaye this morning, David from Coatbridge calls in

      listen here as Kaye says she is shocked by his statement

      https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/867297056184053760

    296. meg merrilees says:

      Legerwood

      Don’t know about how much the SNP is receiving in donations but i do know that i have a huge pile of leaflets sitting on my hall table ready to go but we are NOT leafletting in the current situation when all the parties have agreed to suspend the election campaign – temporarily…

      I also know that there is a lack of people offering their time – even an hour- to help out. The leaflets don’t deliver themselves, obviously, someone has to volunteer to do it.
      Loads of stuff is sitting in campaign offices waiting to go out.

      Please everyone, help out if you can.

      Mind you, troops on the streets?

      Are we entering the territory of suspending the election and having an emergency government?

      Call K this morning- nutcase spouting about all Pakistanis should be sent home.
      K did try and point out that this bomber was born in Manchester (i.e.British – non-immigrant) but he was having none of it. If yer furrin, yer furrin.

      K then said that just because the caller was white, she didn’t compare him to Ian Brady.

      Astonished caller stopped dead in his continuous tirade and said:
      ‘Whit’s that got to dae wi me?’

    297. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Are we entering the territory of suspending the election and having an emergency government?”

      And what’s the betting the Establishment would attempt to exclude the SNP from any ‘National Government’?

    298. Lenny Hartley says:

      Just remembered seen something on fb last Thursday that Cal-Mac sailing from Ardrossan to Brodick was delayed as security checks including ID on all passengers . Only once in over sixty years I have been checked and that was vehicles only several months ago. Was there Intelligence suggesting an attack was about to be carried out, but not specific enough to say where?

      If so, surely basic security should have been carried out at all venues thought the UK where large gatherings of people were present.

    299. SeanW says:

      “I would like any yoon or pro nuclear activist to prove me otherwise.”

      Do pro nuclear activists even exist? Must be a grim bunch!

    300. Dorothy Devine says:

      Re the lad from Coatbridge on Kay(e) – the media has a great deal to answer for with regard encouraging hatred and bigotry, and she was definitely NOT up for taking any blame.

      The BBBC and STV have been stoking flames as has the press – generally speaking against the SNP , Alex Salmond , Nicola Sturgeon and the YES campaign if not against Scotland itself.

      They are unlikely to shout ,’ Mea Culpa’ – much more likely to say ‘It wiznae uz’ or even ‘ I’m shocked”

    301. Bob Mack says:

      @Skintybroko,

      Cannot link sites from this device,but it is freely available if you just Google teenage literacy rates England for this past year.

    302. Legerwood says:

      meg merrilees @ 9.52

      I am aware that electioneering has been suspended because of Manchester so did not expect leaflets today but given the complete absence of anything for the local elections my expectations are not high when electioneering resumes that we will get anything either by hand or post.

      We have already had the booklet from the Tories (by post?) and my husband has had a personally addressed letter from Ms Davidson. Presumably using the electoral roll for addresses etc. Surely the SNP can send material out by post – if they have the money.

    303. Sinky says:

      David P says: 24 May, 2017 at 9:33 am
      O/T

      Ian Murray’s official election address arrived a week ago.

      Is that the one I am told was printed in Cardiff?

      Perhaps his Tory friends tipped him off that an election was going to be called.

    304. Legerwood says:

      heedtracker @ 9.22 am

      I noticed those stories in the Guardian too about money to the Tories from CEOs and today’s Herald story about the increase in donations to the Tories this year.

      I also noticed that the Tories were very quick off the mark in getting their GE booklet out. Taken together with the insurance companies increasing their advertising about equity release before the announcement of the ‘Dementia Tax’ it does make you wonder just how much of a ‘snap’ election this was.

    305. skintybroko says:

      Bob Mack – Thanks

    306. Dr Jim says:

      Prime Minister dog whistle gets Ahr Precious Union country flowing in the right direction by making sure our home grown nutters get a louder voice, Blacks out Browns out funny accents out might as well move on to the Irish out and let’s face it those Nationalist Jocks want a watching, Aye them out too go for the full set, Oooh and more prisons as well

      While we’re at it close all the borders so bad folk can’t get in,
      See the folk who are saying all this stuff, those are the ones I’d like to get rid of

      And of course none of this is about politics, I mean it couldn’t possibly be could it, Nooo! definitely not,

      For that would never cross the mind of Mrs Whistle in the middle of an election where she’s been shown to have been losing ground in England to the guy who doesn’t care much for war and bombs and stuff

      Not saying that Prime minister Whistle is an opportunist or anything but, Yes I am

      Quick BBC get more experts on so we can challenge the nutters we really want on to inflame things as much as possible

      Oooh what a great story, we can run with this 24 hours a day for weeks

      Victims? Oh Aye eh that’s terribly sad too, let’s get an expert in on that, Wow! what a story!

      Do you think I’m too cynical?

      “!”Expert”£”$! And the phone lines are open or text us or email us or Instagram us But we need this debate it’s so important to Ahr country

    307. jfngw says:

      Theresa May breathes a sigh of relief, she was sinking fast. Now all we will hear is vacuous cliches demonstrating that she is strong and stable.

    308. Chic McGregor says:

      stu mac

      Chaucer spelled the word ‘queynte’. There is also often ambiguity as to whether his usage overlapped in meaning with the word ‘quaint’ but even where it appears to have been used anatomically, it does not seem to have been intended as a derogatory term.

      The Makars spelled it ‘cunt’ and often used it in the modern derogatory fashion.

      BTW Barbour wrote ‘The Bruce’ in c 1375 which is pretty much contemporaneous with the start of Chaucers ‘English period’, prior to that Chaucer had had a ‘French period’ and an ‘Italian period’.

      The etymology is uncertain, Northern European, PIE and Greek contenders.

      Throughout the early middle ages in England, streets existed often with the actual spelling ‘cunt’ in the form of several street names like ‘Gropecunt Lane’ where prostitution took place but it is a stretch to describe that as published.

      All there in Google.

    309. Bob p says:

      Jfngw.yes salman abedi was on their radar and had travelled to syria,also had links to Isis.sounds like a monumental f***ing cockup by someone.

    310. Flower of Scotland says:

      Legerwood at 10.23

      I received an SNP leaflet delivered by postman 2 days ago. I was supposed to be leafleting tonight but it’s been called off. If we start “electioneering” before the Unionists, we will be criticised by all and sundry!

      I have lots of family in Manchester and felt heart sick about the deaths and injuries but TV and radio broadcasts are way over the top! They are reacting exactly the way the terrorists want. I even heard a reporter on Radio Scotland saying that chemical attacks were a possibility.

      I think we should get back to normal as quickly as possible but don’t hold your breath. Honestly, this act of terrorism has been a godsend to Theresa May.

    311. Robert Peffers says:

      @Macart says: 24 May, 2017 at 8:22 am:

      “What they do have is a really big soap box and carte blanche to present their view to the world. What they have, is the power to alter opinion, direct populations and cause untold harm. There are no institutions with enough teeth to bring down the worst offenders.”

      While there are no institutions with enough teeth to bring down the worst offenders there is the only one that has no statutory teeth whatsoever but it gets the job done in the long term. That institution is the basic goodness of the general public.

      Newspaper circulations are a continuous regulator of the dead tree press and their online counterparts are now reliant upon a combination of clickbait and advertising revenues.

      The clickbait way is causing readerships to polarise into them and us. The Scotsman is an example of how that works out. That leaves only the advertisers and, in the longer game, public opinion will see them and us talking to ourselves and the advertisers will find their cash support also bringing in a reduced return by the same them and us divisions.

      That leaves such as facebook, twitter and blogs like Wings. These are all extending their influence while the old brigade are losing theirs and the online, so called, social medias will be inherently self regulating too.

    312. Proud Cybernat says:

      Can someone please explain to me how Mayhem’s deployment of the army onto the streets of Britain (in response to the recent Manchester terrorist atrocity) will actually do anything to protect the public and make them feel safer?

      I simply don’t get the ‘logic’. If they anticipate further attacks then all they have done is to ensure the terrorists will lie low–for a while. And as soon as the threat level is reduced, the army removed then the terrorists will make their next move. They’re hardly likely to make a move when there is such a high level of armed forces on the streets. Is it Mayhem’s intention to keep the army on the streets until every last terrorist in the UK/world has been found, tried, sentenced and imprisoned? Well, just how realistic is that?

      Oh but seeing all these armed police and soldiers will help us feel safe. Utter BOLLOX! I saw about 7 or 8 armed personnel on my way to work this morning in Glasgow. Did they make me feel safer? NO – they absolutely DID NOT. All they did was raise my awareness of the foe we are up against and that raised awareness actually made me feel MORE concerned. I always knew the threat was there, of course, but I guess it’s kinda like out of sight, out of mind. With these armed personnel patrolling our streets, the threat is no longer “out of sight” and, therefore, is very much foremost in the mind. To many people that brings them concern and even fear.

      Is that what Mayhem really wants, people to be afraid? Because, you know, when people are afraid they will always default to the familiar ‘safe’ status quo. This attack suits Mayhem’s agenda just perfectly. Yes, I believe she is that sick and cynical. She was free-falling in the polls. I just hope that free-fall continues after the camapainging resumes because I, for one, will not allow Mayhem’s deployment of armed personnel scare me into voting for the status quo. She can take her scare tactics and ram them.

    313. Col says:

      I had tory election crap pushed through my door yesterday so looks like the tories are indeed still spreading the hate and trying to stop a second referendum.

    314. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      meg merrilees at 9.52

      The only thing that motivates SNP members and supporters to go out and work is material that supports independence.

      We are all waiting for the next independence campaign. Whether we like that or not that is the fact.
      What we are doing at the moment at best is a holding operation. This is not our best option.

    315. Proud Cybernat says:

      Hearing LOTS of sirens here in Glasgow city centre right now. Hope nothing’s happened.

    316. Free Scotland says:

      Have just been watching some of a three-part documentary called The Politics of Fear by Adam Curtis. Below is a transcript of a few lines from the introduction:

      “Increasingly, politicians are seen simply as managers of public life. But now, they have discovered a new role that restores their power and authority: instead of delivering dreams, politicians now promise to protect us – from nightmares.”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTg4qnyUGxg

    317. Jamie says:

      In reference to your first paragraph, it is a sad reflection of the moral hypocrisy afflicting a lot of people today, especially in the mainstream media that such tragedies can no longer be analysed for what they are, a retaliation in reaction to the failure of successive governments foreign policy and very likely the relative poverty that many of today’s youths globally experience.

      That freedom of speech, or indeed the truth is the first casualty after each such tragedy should really raise questions about what way of life is actually being protected here? The narrow interests of a global arms network or a very secretive shadow government operating in America under the guise of the CIA which has been highlighted by various presidents in the past like President Kennedy.

      Never the less the UK seems very willing to follow the US lead in all wars and again for whose interest? The Scottish people? The English people? If people could stop for a minute and reflect on the real causes of these attacks we could call out at first the official faces of the foreign policy to make change. For a start why is the UK and US training ISIS in Syria and funding ISIS (the so called moderate opposition who fight alongside ISIS who are known to share technology, troops and arms)?

      You might have made the right choice not talking about it because this sort of rational debate is no longer possible as you pointed out and Scottish independence does have to be the most important goal for Scotland, especially if Scotland ever wants to have any chance of speaking out on these issues as apparently England simply is not going to.

      With regards to the nurse, I found particularly funny that the Daily Mail had the cheek to attack “cyber nats” for terrorising the poor wee nurse who went to the food bank after her holidays and shopping trips yet the Daily Mail has spent the last 7 years attacking food bank users as tattoo enthusiasts and cheap skates who would rather spend their money on cigarettes and booze than food.

      Any one for a helping of moral hypocrisy? Just buy a mainstream newspaper.

    318. heedtracker says:

      BBC Scotland led media’s SNP bad attack propaganda is getting worse by the day but its JC in England that they’re after.

      Evening Standard’s always been for tory roasters only but now a reprobate like Osborne’s the editor…and the creeps even sold him as opposition to Mayhem too

      The British Media is Sick
      chunkymark

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPMLx58qQzo

    319. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robbo says: 24 May, 2017 at 9:17 am:

      “Nuclear weapons deter nothing. There is absolutely NO HARD physical evidence anywhere that since the start of the cold war or introduction of these monstrosities that they have deterred anything.”

      My wee pal used to tell a tall tale to foreign visitors to Scotland – mainly Anglos. He would say, with a totally straight face, that the Wild Scottish Haggis, was the reason there were no Alligators in Scotland.

      Of course the visitors would make the point that there weren’t any Alligators in Scotland. To which he would reply, “Exactly! Those wee Wild Haggis’ are very, very effective against Alligators.”

    320. BJ says:

      In the last week I have had six LibDem leaflets through the letterbox.

      Today was different, their leaflet came in a brown envelope with a return address, George Street London. Same rubbish inside with wee Willie Wankers face staring out at me. No mention of the prospective Westminster candidate ?

      They’re going to beat the SNP and stop the Indy ref vote.? Are yi aye.

    321. Free Scotland says:

      @heedtracker at 11:32

      Just watched that one, and then this:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQpr-ad03NQ

    322. crazycat says:

      @ Legerwood

      Re: reported donations

      I may have got the figures wrong, but I believe that only donations over £7,500 have to be officially declared (with the donor named).

      Donations over £500 require that the donor’s details be checked to show that they are eligible (again, I forget the details, but I think they include being registered to vote here).

      So if the SNP are receiving a large number of small donations, they will have the reosurces but will not need to publish them. They will of course need to account for them with the Electoral Commission.

      I haven’t read the article to which you referred, so I might be addressing a different issue.

    323. Richardinho says:

      I don’t get it either: It wasn’t an army that attacked the concert in Manchester. In fact, the only thing that will prevent future attacks of a similar nature is police work.

    324. Robert Peffers says:

      @stu mac says: 24 May, 2017 at 9:32 am:

      “You may or may not be correct about the Scots Makars and the F word but you’re quite wrong about the C word. This was used in Old English and even by Chaucer in the 14th Century – the Makars’ period was 15th and 16th centuries.”

      Actually it is all claptrap anyway. Perfectly normal words become objectionable depending upon the usage of the word. For example there are many words for ladies underwear in the dictionary. The reason being that a perfectly good word becomes associated with being bad in people’s minds. It doesn’t just happen with clothes or body parts either.

      What of the changing connotations for jobs? There is absolutely nothing wrong with the word, “Scavenger”, but it became, “Scaffie”, and perceived as a term of abuse. The name for the job has always changed by that effect. It resulted in such laughable terms as, “Street Hygiene Opperative”.

      Then we have the terms for people now referred to as, “Having Learning Difficulties”, as no matter what term is the current acceptable non-abusive word or phrase will be tomorrow’s term of abuse.

      Here’s an example of how silly this particular game is :-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSrXqOI9988

      While we are at it – what about this:-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdY1Y5XNJBY

      They’re avin a larff!

    325. crazycat says:

      @ Richardinho

      In fact, the only thing that will prevent future attacks of a similar nature is police work.

      There aren’t enough police (because Theresa May as Home Secretary cut their numbers by 20,000). So the army is being used, to free up the police to do more investigating.

      But there aren’t enough soldiers, because somebody at the MoD cut their numbers as well.

      Thank goodness we’ve got a nuclear deterrent, eh?

    326. heedtracker says:

      Free Scotland says:
      24 May, 2017 at 11:50 am
      @heedtracker at 11:32

      Just watched that one, and then this:

      Aye. Tory winning June 8 will be a massive propaganda triumph. Army on the streets is clearly electioneering by the tories. Although even if the tories had not made so many cuts to policing, would it make any difference to suicide bombers like this?

      Probably not. Scots, Welsh, English centre left are basically at the mercy of this tory BBC attack propaganda campaign, that’s getting more and more aggressive because they have to be.

      Even down to the brass tac basics of the BBC Scotland debate, not just with furious “invited” anti SNP nurses but with their press spin room, devoid of any press, even remotely critical of tory UK gov.

      Or why for example, was The Graun’s ligger in Scotland Severin Carrell in BBC Scotland press debate spin room, when Graun reports virtually nothing about Scotland, and not for example, the author of Wings over Scotland, who is a journo and does, report Scotland?

      We’re being defrauded of our democracy, on a monumental scale, by serious if desperate tory con artists.

      Did you know that:D

    327. mike cassidy says:

      Boris 6.05

      Info on her linkedin page

      https://uk.linkedin.com/in/grace-o-keeffe-69b49382

      Re fixed audiences.

      Its hardly rocket science to expose and embarrass the practice.

      The SNP person just has to make a joke about it before answering their first question.

      Any tory councillors or nurse activists in tonight pretending to be ordinary people.

      And if the Sarah Smiths and David Dimblebys deny such a thing has happened or is happening –

      just say the denial will be remembered.

    328. Dr Jim says:

      With 130.000 members paying subs even without donors the SNP are a long way from skint
      I’m skint coz I’m also a donor and a member but I don’t care
      as long as there are Tories to get rid of and a country to get back the FM can have any spare change I’ve got to help do it

      I also wave a flag and stick stuff in ma windae which you’ll have noticed is a damn site more than the the Loyal opposition singing Britnat choir do

      Us Yessers stick our hands in our pockets or open our wallets for what we believe Unionists just shout at folk
      so who are the real Patriots

    329. heedtracker says:

      Thank goodness we’ve got a nuclear deterrent, eh?

      Fear works? Throughout the night before 18 Sep 2014 Scots ref day, BBC World Service ran on the hour headline news, Australian Prime Minister Abbott had deployed thousands of extra police in all Australian cities, as Islamic terrorists were reported beheading shoppers in shopping malls and this morn Scotland goes to the polls to decide on the break up of the United Kingdom. Other than the deployment of extra police by Abbott, none of it had happened.

      BBC is not the only media corp to try and terrorise its population into to voting the “right” way.

      also described Scottish independence

      Australian PM Abbott told the Times,

      “What the Scots do is a matter for the Scots and not for a moment do I presume to tell Scottish voters which way they should vote.

      “But as a friend of Britain, as an observer from afar, it’s hard to see how the world would be helped by an independent Scotland.

      “I think that the people who would like to see the break-up of the United Kingdom are not the friends of justice, the friends of freedom, and the countries that would cheer at the prospect… are not the countries whose company one would like to keep.”

      copyrightTIMES

      BBC Scotland went massive with it ofcourse.

    330. sensibledave says:

      Robbo 9:17 am

      You wrote “Nuclear weapons deter nothing. There is absolutely NO HARD physical evidence anywhere that since the start of the cold war or introduction of these monstrosities that they have deterred anything.

      It’s all nonsence.”

      … I don’t think there are many people that are “pro-nuclear weapons” per se. The reality is that a number of countries do have them, or are trying to get them, and a number of those countries are potentially “unstable” or potential (proven?) aggressors – so the question is what does one country, that already has them, do in response.

      The unilateralists argue that by giving up nuclear weapons in these circumstances – reduces the chance of aggression or war, or destruction by those that have them. The multilateralists argue that that everyone must reduce and then get rid of their nuclear weapons together.

      There are some states, like Israel, that live under constant threat of a potential aggression from a near neighbour that has avowed their destruction (Iran). In that specific case, Israel keeps the weapons in order to assure Iran’s destruction if they were minded to act on their stated position.

      North Korea is another completely different situation and the India/Pakistan situation is another unique situation.

      Finally, there is “the West”, Russia and China. There is significant history of “bad blood” between those entities. However, there has been no “direct” confrontations between those “entities” since all three have had nuclear weapons.

      As for “hard” evidence, it is “hard” to produce hard evidence – but I think the Cuban missile crisis events are pretty “firm”.

      Finally, maybe it is a complete coincidence, but no nuclear weapons have been used aggressively since the end of WWII. So, you may argue that we can’t say for certain that having nuclear weapons will always act as a deterrent – but we can say for certain that having them, has never started a war.

      What we do not know is what Russia might do if the west didn’t have nuclear weapons – and they did.

      In summary, the “certainty” that you have about nuclear weapons is ill founded. You have no evidence whatsoever that suggests that not having nuclear weapons makes a country “safer”. The reverse is the case. Only those countries that don’t have nuclear weapons have been annexed or invaded since the end of WWII. Which is pretty convincing wouldn’t you say?

    331. Robert Peffers says:

      @crazycat says: 24 May, 2017 at 12:04 pm:

      ” … So the army is being used, to free up the police to do more investigating.
      But there aren’t enough soldiers, because somebody at the MoD cut their numbers as well.
      Thank goodness we’ve got a nuclear deterrent, eh?”

      Err! crazycat, “We”, don’t have anything, it all belongs to, “Them”. To be more correct it actually all belongs to Her Majesty, The Queen of England. I kid you not.

      It is:-
      “Her Majesty’s Royal Navy”.
      “Her Majesty’s Royal Air Force”.
      and, “The Soldiers of the Queen”.

      Not only that but each submarine that carries the Nuclear Deterrent has three letters before it’s name – HMS.

      Now, as submarines are all classed as boats and not ships those initials stand for Her Majesty’s Submarine.

      Now before you go and contradict me consider this:-

      The Secretary of State for, (sic), Scotland, David Mundell has given his interpretation of a small part of a paper that was commissioned by, “Her Majesty’s Government”, thus:-

      “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as, “The United Kingdom”.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OIRUr4R7GQ

      Now, if the Kingdom of Scotland is extinguished and the Kingdom of England is renamed to be the United Kingdom then there cannot be a Queen of Scotland and the Queen herself chose to be designated as Elizabeth II and there has never been an Elizabeth I of Scotland then I am 100% correct in saying that, in the opinion of English/United Kingdom law everything, including Her Majesty’s subjects, belong to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II of The United Kingdom/England.

      But they don’t want you to know that.

    332. gus1940 says:

      With speculation starting as to whether or not the Tories want to lose the election leaving the smoking bomb of Brexit to be passed to L:abour or a coalition of Labour, LibDems and SNP is it not time to start some mischievous speculation as to who will succeed May as Tory leader.

      I give you for starters – Amber Rudd.

    333. gus1940 says:

      Only a fortnight to go and no mention yet of Frigate Orders on The Clyde.

      Can we expect some spectacular last minute announcement?

    334. David P says:

      Sinky replies @ 10.24am to David P @9.33am

      “Ian Murray’s official election address arrived a week ago.”

      “Is that the one I am told was printed in Cardiff?…”

      Yes, printed in Cardiff. Another fine example of “pooling and sharing resources”.

    335. admiral says:

      “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as, “The United Kingdom”

      The logic of this is that the erstwhile Kingdom of Scotland is not part of the United Kingdom if the United Kingom is merely the renamed previous Kingdom of England, because the Kingdom of Scotland has not and never has been part of the Kingdom of England.

    336. crazycat says:

      @ Robert Peffers at 12.33

      I have no intention of contradicting you.

      I am, however, going to point out that I was being sarcastic (as you will have realized, I expect) and therefore my use of “we” was not literal.

      I did provide you with the excuse to post about though, for which you might be grateful.

    337. crazycat says:

      “post about *it*…”, obviously.

      (post in haste, repent at leisure)

    338. Bob Mack says:

      @Sensibledave.

      You can just tell how terrified kim Jong un is of all these countries threatening him. Now in case it escaped your notice he is being actively threatened by the holder of the world’s biggest nuclear arsenal. E.USA. Somebody should drop him a line informing him he is being deterred. Don’t think he’s quite got that yet.

    339. orri says:

      I hate to be fair to Mundell but he was probably answering to the actual wording of the report which says that it deliberately did not take in to consideration whether Scotland was extinguished or not. Which is actually true, the right to independence doesn’t actually depend on Scotland not having been extinguished.

    340. Dr Jim says:

      Do you want to be annexed or destroyed

      Oooh! well let me think? choices choices!

      Genius Arsehole Dandy reader strikes again

    341. Robert Peffers says:

      @sensibledave says: 24 May, 2017 at 12:27 pm:

      ” … The reality is that a number of countries do have them, or are trying to get them, and a number of those countries are potentially “unstable” or potential (proven?) aggressors – so the question is what does one country, that already has them, do in response.”

      Oh! Dear me!

      What a load of utter pish, sensibledave.

      First of all only one, presently rather unstable, country, in the entire World has ever used nuclear bombs in anger. The USA – and the USA has been aggressive towards countries throughout the entire World ever since those bombs wiped out entire Japanese cities.

      There has not been a year since they dropped their nuclear bombs that the USA has not been involved in aggressive conflict and threatening wars with another country somewhere in the World.

      There are several unstable countries that have Nuclear weapons that are the largest suppliers of weaponry throughout the World among them are the USA, The UK and Russia, (the former USSR).

      All of them have been the greatest aggressive nations in the World since WWII and before. The Present USA government is an utter shambles and is aggressive. The UK is a shambles and are aggressive and Russia is, now to a lesser extent, a shambles and aggressive.

    342. Robert Kerr says:

      @orri

      The question for IR2.

      “Do you agree that the Kingdom of Scotland should be unextinguished?”

    343. Robert Peffers says:

      @gus1940 says: 24 May, 2017 at 12:36 pm

      “I give you for starters – Amber Rudd.”

      Nah! We can’t have that, gus1945, must be someone else so that the Tories remain Rudderless.

    344. Effijy says:

      BBC radio- a Scot called in to say he wants
      Everyone who “we” think has been radicalised
      Taken out of their homes and interned?

      The show host add in the idea that “we” could
      Take over Butlins Camps and detain them there!

      Host asks if their family should be punished too.

      Yes said the caller. That would teach them.
      He adds that these people should not be allowed
      The visit their homeland or relatives abroad.

      Now what if an Internet person is the bread winner.
      Does the BBC think we should stop their benefits so
      That we can starve them out of the country, or to death?

      Should we stop their family in Libia or Iraq from sending
      Them food parcels?

      Should we increase taxes to cover the cost of interning thousands
      If people? Maybe privatise the NHS to pay for it?

      How about we include all Scottish Nationalists and their families in this too.
      Maybe Scotland could be the UK internment and Starvation centre?

      Not in my name. Never! Set my and my country free from State Broadcaster
      Who would give Air time to such an inhuman and impossible reaction

    345. heedtracker says:

      In summary, rule Britannia’s a world power, blah blah bleh… Only those countries that don’t have nuclear weapons have been annexed or invaded since the end of WWII. Which is pretty convincing wouldn’t you say?”

      Can i just add sensibledave, England is also not stupid enough to store its WMD’s actually in England.

      Using another country like Scotland, as your nuke weapon dump is all for the Scot’s own good isn’t it sensibedave.

      And yes we know, sensibleD, Trident gives Scotland 20,000+ high class job and as well as keeping us safe.

    346. stu mac says:

      @Chic McGregor
      =================

      I’m well aware when Barbour wrote “the Bruce” – I’ve been reading it recently and though I’m in the last quarter (Edward Bruce in Ireland) I’ve yet to come across the C word so I don’t see the relevance.

      It’s possible Chaucer’s use was non-derogatory as of course as with all ‘swear words’ were non-derogatory at first. But you never said that but merely that the Makars used the word earlier in print. It is of course difficult to know when a particular word becomes derogatory and some can have been derogatory in the past but still have been milder in their usage than later on. And there’s also the circumstance (among mates anyway) that good mates will address each other with swear words which from strangers they would take offence to.

      I’m aware of the old street names which I suppose show people were less sensitive about such things back then. I wonder if they actually used street names though (I mean, actual plates with a printed name). The names were obviously widely used as they appeared in written documents of the time.

      It is in its way interesting but hardly anything to be worrying about who got it into print first. All I thought I was doing was lending a little more accuracy.

    347. Liz g says:

      Robert Kerr @ 1.22
      Brilliant LOL

    348. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave says:
      24 May, 2017 at 12:27 pm
      Robbo 9:17 am

      Its one thing to compare UK WMD’s to Israel for example sensibledave, they are under very real threat from neighbouring countries. But there is huge difference between Trident WMD subs and land launched nukes sensible.

      Trident’s aimed at everyone on the planet as well being the most expensive WMD you can buy sensibledave.

      When Scotland does actually send Trident back to England, England might consider the far cheaper cruise missile style of nuke warhead delivery, seeing as England and Israel have similar defence requirements.

      Who knows sensibledave, you might a find a nuke rocket silo being built not far from your house on the south coast of England, 600+miles from bonny Argyll, badly radiation poisoned Argyll but even so.

      Think of all those high class WMD jobs you’ll get sensible.

    349. Brian Powell says:

      Australian PM Abbott told the Times,

      “But as a friend of Britain, as an observer from afar, it’s hard to see how the world would be helped by an independent Scotland.”

      From that logic I’m assuming PM Abbott is planning to return Australia to the UK.

    350. Robert Peffers says:

      @admiral says: 24 May, 2017 at 12:45 pm:

      ” … The logic of this is that the erstwhile Kingdom of Scotland is not part of the United Kingdom if the United Kingom is merely the renamed previous Kingdom of England, because the Kingdom of Scotland has not and never has been part of the Kingdom of England.”

      Well no, admiral.

      The facts are straightforward and all properly recorded in the documentation.

      On the last day of April 1707 the parliament of England is officially recorded as having sat and would itself up. There has never been an elected as such Parliament of England to this very day.

      In contrast, the old Parliament of Scotland in 1707 never sat and ended that parliament. The people were rioting in the streets of the Capital and would have lynched the parliamentarians if they had caught them. The parliament never sat and officially ended itself. The end of the Parliament was proclaimed by town criers around the streets of the Capital and that is not a legal way to wind up a parliament. The old Scottish parliament was/is officially Prorogued.
      On the Holyrood Parliament opening Winnie Ewing declared the old parliament reconvened :-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiottF-df3Y

      So there has never been another elected parliament of England and there is not a shred of evidence to support the claim of a change of name. What opened on 1 May 1707 is legally the United Kingdom Parliament.

      The fact it sat in the same building as the old parliament of England is of no consequence. The elected members could sit in the Isle Of Skye and it would still be legally the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

      In fact if the Houses of Parliament are to be refurbished as planned then the will likely sit elsewhere during the refurbishment. It was than, and is now, illegal.

      The United Kingdom is a bipartite union of equally sovereign kingdoms.

    351. sensibledave says:

      Dr Jim 1.19

      Sir, you are an idiot. It is not a question of “do you want to be annexed or destroyed”. Are you really so thick that you can’t see that? Answer me this Dr Jim. Name a country that has a nuclear weapon that has been annexed or invaded. It shouldn’t take long – even for a dimwit like you.

      Then, give me a list of all of the countries without a nuclear weapon that have been annexed or invaded. You will need significantly longer for that Dr Jim.

      Robert Peffers 1.20

      Jeez. You sink to knew lows (highs?) in your piousness and pomposity.

      Answer the same questions I posed to Dr Jim – without all of the inane, everyone else on the planet is stupid other than SNP supporters, rhetoric Robert.

      I trust that you require Ms Sturgeon to have your degree of hatred in her dealings (commercial or otherwise) with the United States.

      Bob Mack

      Ditto Above Sir.

      .. and North Korea hasn’t got Nuclear weapons (yet).

      Summary

      There have not been any nuclear wars since the end of WWII. No country with nuclear weapons has been invaded or annexed.

      By all means argue that you don’t want nuclear weapons – but, in doing so, do not deny the actual facts of the last 72 years of history.

      I am absolutely certain of the facts I have laid out. You three are just guessing you know what would have happened over the last 72 years.

      I wish there was no such thing as nuclear weapons – but there are. I wish we could all get rid of the ones we have, but the world seems incapable of agreeing that. Some countries (Iran, North Korea) are heel bent on getting them – and those two say they both want to use them.

    352. Bob Mack says:

      @Sensibledave,

      Oops your petticoat is showing Dave. N Korea has been exploding nuclear weapons for the last ten years. No main delivery system though.

      UK has had nuclear weapons a long time. Wonder why Argentina who have none invaded the Falklands?

      If you want a list Dave of all the countries the USA and GB have fought with since the second world war ( most of whom have no nuclear arsenal) I would be happy to oblige.

      Pesky deterrents eh ? Don’t seem to always work. That includes ? which has failed seven launch tests out of eight.

    353. maxxmacc says:

      I was ‘lucky’ enough to be picked for the audience for ‘Question Time’ at Stirling a few years back. Many people (including myself) put questions in. Strangely enough (and Mr Dimbleby commented on this before the cameras rolled) the few questions picked came from the same area of the audience. None of the questions were particularly relevant and certainly none of them were from a nationalist viewpoint. I smelled a rat and left in disgust before the whole charade began.

    354. Robert Peffers says:

      @crazycat says: 24 May, 2017 at 1:08 pm:

      “I did provide you with the excuse to post about though, for which you might be grateful.”

      As you well realise, crazycat, I seldom pass by any opportunity to push the case for Scotland’s right and sovereignty.

      I just did not realise you required thanks as I though we were all, with a few exceptions, playing off each other in the cause of Scottish independence.

      However, you can certainly consider yourself well thanked for all, and any, openings you proved – mind you that also goes for anyone else, including, the unwilling, obvious and not so obvious, trolls.

    355. Robert Graham says:

      has this arse dave taken up residence here ? , is this now daves site ? , maybe dave wont object if the majority have a wee internal vote to have him ejected ( subject to the managements approval ) I vote GTF dave you are poisoning the well .

    356. heedtracker says:

      I wish there was no such thing as nuclear weapons – but there are. I wish we could all get rid of the ones we have, but the world seems incapable of agreeing that. Some countries (Iran, North Korea) are heel bent on getting them – and those two say they both want to use them.

      Awe that’s so nice sensibledave, you’re a bit of a CNDer underneath your toryboy buffoonery.

      Why does the UK need less than 2% of the world’s nuke WNMD stockpile sensibledave?

      None of you toryboy buffoons can say out loud, because we’re British and we are relevant, still. Worst thing is sensibledave, toryboy buffoons just like you, probably will fire Trident WMD’s at someone poor souls and miss.

    357. Petra says:

      @ harry mcaye at 4:32pm ….. ‘’Petra, that is not Alex Allison at last week’s Question Time. I doubted it was at the time, I’m good with faces, but he later confirmed he wasn’t there on facebook….’’

      Thanks for taking the time to post that info Harry.

      @ Capella at 4:54 pm ‘’Petra – welcome back! I sat through that QT and agree that those Tories in the front row on either side of The Nurse were probably Alex Allison and Eric Holford. Here’s a pic of them both on the night of the Clydesdale East election.’’

      http://tinyurl.com/l4elyao

      Many thanks for the ‘’welcome back’’. To be honest I’m never far away at all Capella as I use Wings as my news source on a daily basis. Where else to go, LOL?

      Yeah they do look alike and no doubt if there’s anything else we should be made aware of it’ll come out in the wash.

      I’m just waiting to see if we witness a repeat fiasco on the STV Leaders debate. Are they going to allow (or encourage?) members of the audience to focus on devolved areas / independence in an attempt to let the Tories / Labour off of the hook? I know that a large number of people have complained to the BBC about this blatantly biased carry-on and have also contacted STV pointing out that their debate, unlike the BBC’s, should relate in totality to the forthcoming General Election. We’ll see how that one pans out!

    358. Bob Mack says:

      The alternative to the rule of Holyrood is the rule of Westminster. That is why looking at how Westminster run services is relevant. That is what we would have.

      In every field of public services bar none the Scottish government is way ahead.
      Health Service
      Education
      S/w provision
      Policing.
      To name but a few.
      If anybody disputes this they have macaroni for brains.

    359. sensibledave says:

      Bob Mack

      … pathetic Bob.

      To be honest, I am incredulous Bob.

      You appear to be arguing that nuclear deterrents dont work because there havent been any nuclear events since the end of WWII!!!!

      I dont think I can help you any more. You are too far gone in your hatred (and that does appear to be the word that is appropriate) of everything non-SNP.

      Fortunately, All the leaders and governments of all of the of the Nuclear armed countries – and those covered by the NATO umbrella (including Ms Sturgeon who wants Scotland to be a member of NATO I believe, although she may have flip-flopped depending upon the day of the week) – appear to have a slightly different view to you.

      Let me think about who I am inclined to go with ……. hmmm, close, but I think I am inclined towards the non-rabid Nationalist views on this one Bob.

    360. Dr Jim says:

      Aw wee Davy boys panties getting tight and his wee face is going red with his wee temper…Diddums

      Question for Robert Peffers, you’re the man who knows a bit about this stuff
      The Act of Union, given that it really wasn’t an actual democratic Act by or for the people but was more of a dodgy sale that basically in those days nobody knew about, between elite types for control of Scotlands assets and land, in your opinion (whilst I realise you’re not a legal type guy) do you think it’s properly contestable because there was no consultation or referendum of the people and was presented as a Fait accompli later whenever folk found out

      Our opponents talk a lot about will of the people being paramount but we were never asked
      It’s seems like it’s a bit like going to the shops but by the time you got home somebody you didn’t know had sold your house to somebody else you didn’t know and then claimed it was legal because there was more of them than you so tough

    361. sensibledave says:

      heedtracker 2:03 pm

      … I wondered how long it would be before they let you out to play.

      I note that you appear to be joining many others here in re-writing history.

      Over the last 72 years, could you give me a list of the UK government or major opposition parties voted for by the majority of SCottish voters in SCottish constituencies – that fought the election on a unilateral disarmament ticket?

      I think you may find Heedy that Scotland, over the last 72 years, is as responsible as anyone else, for the Uk’s nuclear deterrent.

      But hey, lets not get bogged down in facts again eh Heedy. Lets just keep doing the everyone but SNP is Bad thing – regardless of such facts.

      Dog Whistle stuff again from the usual suspects.

    362. louis.b.argyll says:

      History was written by the WW2 winners- but the shine is now taken off Western civilisation.

      The sin of ‘democratically’ enforced low wages, bullying, sexism, racism and endless foreign interventions..all in the name of returning to former materialistic ‘glories’

    363. crazycat says:

      @ sensibledave

      Name a country that has a nuclear weapon that has been annexed or invaded…..

      Then, give me a list of all of the countries without a nuclear weapon that have been annexed or invaded.

      Correlation is not necessarily causation.

    364. heedtracker says:

      Let me think about who I am inclined to go with ……. hmmm, close, but I think I am inclined towards the non-rabid Nationalist views on this one Bob.”

      Its your deep dishonesty sensibledave that’s pretty much what all Scots are accustomed to right enough.

      Everyone knows London is a primary nuclear target, in any nuke war scenario, ofcourse it is. Most EU capital cities are, certainly countries with nukes.

      So Scotland is not used as a WMD dump for tactical nuke battle reasoning by the English, its merely in case of a serious WMD accident or terror attack.

      A Trident nuke missile accidental blast, in the Clyde, is much more likely than WW3 maybe but risks to London and major English population centres are completely eradicated, by using Scotland for your WMD’s.

      Its as simple as that sensibledave.

    365. Bob Mack says:

      @Sensibledave,

      No Dave. You lack comprehension skills. In spite of nuclear “deterrants” there have been multiple conflicts against those countries armed with nuclear weapons. You see ? They did not deter.

      God forgive me for being a pacifist Dave boy. No doubt you have a nice phallic Trident cigarette lighter on your workstation. You can comfort yourself that there are many like yourself. Sensible like . Willing to push the button to preserve peace and order. Oh wait !

      Your disdain convinces me I am on the right path in life after all.

    366. Robbo says:

      SeanW says:
      24 May, 2017 at 10:12 am
      “I would like any yoon or pro nuclear activist to prove me otherwise.”
      sensibledave says:
      24 May, 2017 at 12:27 pm
      Robbo 9:17 am

      Do pro nuclear activists even exist? Must be a grim bunch!

      I would class ANY country not signed up to the NPT or who have never acknowledged it = N. Korea Iran-well, mibees aye mibees naw???

      sensibledave says:
      24 May, 2017 at 12:27 pm
      Robbo 9:17 am
      … I don’t think there are many people that are “pro-nuclear weapons” per se. The reality is that a number of countries do have them, or are trying to get them, and a number of those countries are potentially “unstable” or potential (proven?) aggressors – so the question is what does one country, that already has them, do in response.

      As above

      Regarding: Nuclear weapons have never deterred any invasion/conflict/war since inception.I would like any yoon or pro nuclear activist to prove me otherwise.
      In short, without any solid evidence, we don’t know that nuclear weapons have prevented or will prevent military aggression.

      Did the might of US having this arsenal of weapons stop N Korea invading South Korea? China from sending troops to fight US in Korean war? Did it stop Russia invading Czechoslovakia,Hungary,Afghanistan or Iraq invading Kuwait.

      In short no

      Did it stop Soviet (and later Russian) hands did not prevent U.S. military intervention in Korea, Vietnam, Lebanon, the Dominican Republic, Grenada, Panama, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Nor did Soviet nuclear weapons prevent CIA-fomented military action to overthrow the governments of Iran, Guatemala, Cuba, Chile, Nicaragua, and other nations.

      ermm no

      The are many more examples of conflicts since 40’s whereby irrespective of who had nuclear weapons it has never stopped conflicts.But no one since the US dropping two on Japan has anyone who has them thought of using them-why?

      Maybe have a wee read of this book or even the preface will help a little.

      http://www.sup.org/books/extra/?id=9646&i=Preface_pages&p=1

      Upgrading Trident at a cost of 100 billion-why? wtf. The end result is the same. If ever they were used by any party it is ENDEX

      Why not use that 100 billion and build more conventional deterrents,open back up our bases in Army,RAF,RN and give people jobs and get communities back like the old days. Give the young ones the “join the Army,Navy or RAF and see the world” vision again.
      The Tories and Labour have depleted our armed forces by nearly 3/4 over the past 30 years and all for what? A big bomb that means jack,but only feeds the coffers of the rich who have the shares in these monstrosities. And when and if the button ever does get pressed do you think they’ll be the ones jumping under the school desk with their head in their hands-no.Remember the 2 min 4 min warning bullshit? No they’ll be miles under the ground in their bunkers planning the next round of bullshit.

    367. Capella says:

      On the BBC Live website the Police Federation Statement points out that they have too few resources to deal with this incident. Hence the troops. So an explanation from the Tories and Theresa May would be appropriate?
      at 14.22 (it won’t jump to the post so you have to scroll)
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-manchester-40007967

      Steve White, chairman of the federation representing rank-and-file officers in England and Wales, said:

      As always, the response of emergency workers in the face of adversity has been second to none. The welcome support of the military to free up armed officers and offer public reassurance will no doubt be managed in the same professional, resolute way. But, as welcome as this is, we cannot avoid the reasons it is needed at all. There is no ignoring the fact that we, the police, simply do not have the resources to manage an event like this on our own.”

    368. Proud Cybernat says:

      How the wife, SensibleD?

      [sniggers]

    369. Artyhetty says:

      Ignore the troll people!

      All O/T

      Tony Abbot ex Aussie PM, went in 2015, replaced by another ‘liberal’. Funny that. No, Australia would never want to be part of the so called UK, ever again, for obvious reasons.

      Watching some more most interesting short films about Scotland, again on NLS image archive. A few about Scotland’s many many industries and of course, the oil, (oh the oil, aye, just gimmee a mug, of tea!) oil rigs being built, etc. Some go back to the 1930s no doubt shipping out Scotland’s then shale oil to our generous neighbour. Oh aye. It couldn’t have been making any money for Scotland, because the people look like they were living in the freaking dark ages!

      One film about the ‘depopulation’ of the highlands, which I found very interesting but disturbing.

      Anyone with a bit of time, have a look at the films. Can’t link they are all in copywrite, but most are available to watch online, though some just short clips.

      I can give pointers to the good ones via titles though, as it takes a bit of trawling through to find relevant ones. Just say and I can find them.

      Have a good day all, let’s keep the positive vibes going, allow no one at all to distract, stifle or stall good quality discussion on here. 🙂

    370. The Isolator says:

      Putting all this discussion around Nuclear Deterrants to one side for a moment.

      Is there no way of launching the ersehole known as Sensible Dave from this forum?He’s beginning to boil ma piss here.Seriously spoiling my tea break.

    371. Bob Mack says:

      The troll is a bit if fun. A slight distraction.

      I often wonder what the leaders in the Kremlin thought about as they watched the Soviet Union breaking up around them.
      Do you think they twiddled the nuclear button to vanquish those who wanted to leave, and we’re breaking up their empire ?
      Answers on a postcard to Dave boy please.

    372. Albert Herring says:

      @Legerwood

      There’s a simple solution.

      Just nip round to your local SNP campaign rooms and grab yourself a bunch of leaflets. Pop one through your letter box and Bob’s your uncle. I’m sure your local branch will be very grateful if you do the rest of your street as well.

      Just sayin’.

    373. Jack Murphy says:

      ‘Pensioners for Independence’.

      My Gran saw this……
      A short video on Independence Live,speaking to a man living in Dunbar quoting a politician:

      “If you have something to say,put it on a piece of paper and stick it through the letter-box,but you’ve got to grab the attention of the person to read it between the Front Door and the Bin” ! TRUE. 🙂

      YouTube IndependenceLive short version:
      http://tinyurl.com/lswt9og

      Longer version:
      http://tinyurl.com/k4toe8s

    374. heedtracker says:

      Steve White, chairman of the federation representing rank-and-file officers in England and Wales, said:

      So if there are 20,000 fewer cops than are needed to fight terrorism, how is 1000 troops on English streets going to make any impact, considering the full on BBC led tory troops on the street vote tory stuff going on?

      Graun,

      “Why are troops being deployed on the streets of the UK?

      Under operation Temperer the British army is to deploy about 900 troops around the UK to support police and free up officers to focus on other duties, including making arrests.”

      Its all just vote more tory catastrophe, covered up by tory BBC led media.

    375. Legerwood says:

      crazycat @ 12.01

      The article in the Herald is based on the latest figures from the Electoral Commission which publishes the figures quarterly

      https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/donations-and-loans-to-political-parties/quarterly-donations-and-loans

      And you are correct they only report donations over a certain amount but you have to read the Herald article very carefully to find that little nugget squirrel led away.

      Albert Herring @ 2.47

      No idea where they are. They keep it very quiet.

    376. Robbo says:

      Just got my postal ballot paper through today. Guess what-a letter from rooth the mooth came at the same time with a message to vote for her candidate, my local Bill Grant tory will be the only one that can stop the SNP.
      He’s got two chances-nain and fuck aw

    377. Capella says:

      The police in England and Wales have been cut by 20,000. But the army has also been cut. According to RT, they didn’t want to be dragged into policing this incident as they too are understaffed.

      The British military reportedly initially opposed the idea of deploying thousands of troops in the event of a major incident, claiming morale would be hit, it didn’t have the manpower and it wouldn’t know when to withdraw.

      https://on.rt.com/8clj

    378. heedtracker says:

      The great UK tory media’s really going after Facebook these days. Graun’s even got their special Facebook files, with loads of stuff like,

      “How Facebook flouts Holocaust denial laws except where it fears being sued

      Leaked guidelines for moderators also reveal refugees are not protected by hate speech rules because they are a ‘hot topic’”

      BBC also pile on with tons of Facebook bad stuff,

      Leaks ‘expose peculiar Facebook moderation policy’
      22 May 2017
      From the section Technology

      Technology
      Social media giants ‘shamefully far’ from tackling illegal content

      Technology
      Social media firms faces huge hate speech fines in Germany”

      and so on.

      Why would one of the west’s most tory biased press and tory corrupt state broadcasters in the world, suddenly all be gunning for Facebook?

    379. heedtracker says:

      Graun’s got Facebook and Nazi concentration camps neatly bundled together, just in case you can’t quite grasp their point.

      http://archive.is/H8sMs

    380. Bob Mack says:

      But but but, surely Westminster runs policing better than Scotland, in spite of them all getting their VAT back unlike Scotland ?. Surely they have sufficient numbers like Scotland to have crime at a 40 year low?

      Now,.The media tells us every day that Westminster is on the ball whilst Scotland is rubbish. How can they need troops ?

      Over to you Mrs Strong and stable-……….

    381. Clootie says:

      SensibleDave has forgotten that Argentina invaded the Falklands (UK).
      The availability of nuclear weapons did not deter the invasion. It would have been impossible to use any nukes on the mainland of South America because of the political outrage that would follow.

      Had they waited 20years we would now be discussing the Malvinas Islands.

      It not only applies to nukes. Look at UK/France invasion of the Suez Canal in the fifties. The USA said no and two old “Empires” had to retreat despite their superiority in fire power.

      I have had an anti elephant vase in my living room for 20years. Not once has an elephant set foot in our lounge. That is SensibleDave logic regarding nuclear weapons…once again a unionist who thinks gun ship diplomacy of his Imperial past is available with Trident.

    382. Liz g says:

      If I am remembering right (I was young and the news was very much only on the edge of my awareness at the time)but….

      I am sure Westminster knew that the IRA bombers were not acting alone,that there was a network,and that if they could attack again they would.

      Yet I don’t think we had troops on the streets.
      And somehow those bomb’s seemed more powerful,than the one’s this current set of nutter’s use.
      Can anyone remember if we also got troops back then?

    383. John de Soulis says:

      A bit o/t but this is the sort of determination to overcome problems that we have to have. 😉

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollie_Free

    384. Bob Mack says:

      @Lizg,

      Not in my experience liz. Makes you rather think there were enough police units then does it not ?

      The only time I remember troops on the street in my lifetime was when there was what appeared to be a coupe during the tenure of Harold Wilson when for some reason troops in armoured cars turned up at all installations of travel and broadcasting.
      This was never explained by the then government, but rumours persisted about Prince Philip being involved .

    385. Cherry says:

      @ Bob Mack

      I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the establishment’s elite getting things put in place to have a political coup…i would actually believe anything is possible right now.

    386. K1 says:

      By ‘on the streets of Britain’ do they mostly mean ‘aroon the palaces of Westminster and Buckingham’? Cause that’s where maist of these sodjers are deploying as far as ah can tell.

    387. Liz g says:

      Bob Mack @ 3.54
      Well, Well,Well….never knew about the coup thing Bob!
      Must mind to look it up.
      Like you say, plenty of Police back then,and most of them probably only had a truncheon.
      Just makes ye wonder just how much they have been cut by,or is there also a bit of a “Strong and Stable show going on?

    388. K1 says:

      Y’know they’ve reported that we haven’t been at critical level for ten years, that was for about 3 days back then and of course back in 2005, again for relatively short period after London bombings. Can’t recall how long that lasted, but am I wrong in understanding that no troops were deployed on ‘Britain’s streets’ on those occasions?

      Where troops put onto the streets after the London bombings? Genuinely curious.

    389. Proud Cybernat says:

      Amber Rudd refusing to dismiss claims that she plans further cuts to police officer numbers in forces in rUK.

      Tories really want to lose GE17.

    390. Robert Peffers says:

      @sensibledave says: 24 May, 2017 at 1:48 pm:

      “Jeez. You sink to knew lows (highs?) in your piousness and pomposity.”

      What idiot comic did you find that load of idiocy in, sensibledave?

      Nothing either pompous or pious in anything I have replied to you sensibledave. Do you actually know the meaning of those two words?

      Answer the same questions I posed to Dr Jim – without all of the inane, everyone else on the planet is stupid other than SNP supporters, rhetoric Robert.

      Sheesh! I never in my life claimed everyone on the planet was stupid, sensibledave. Just yourself and those I can demonstrate to actually be stupid.

      As to the answers you request, perhaps it would be more correct to say you demand.

      Here you go. The United States had their Pentagon Building partly destroyed and had their twin Towers taken out and the USA has the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet.

      The UK has just suffered an attack that has cost innocent people’s lives and finally the former USSR is now reduced to being again Russia having lost the former subjugated states the took by force.

      “I trust that you require Ms Sturgeon to have your degree of hatred in her dealings (commercial or otherwise) with the United States.”

      Whatever gave you the idea that I require anyone’s permission to think and act as myself, sensibledave. What is more I have never hated anyone on the Planet or buried on it. Let me put it this way for you, sensibledave. I’m not posting on a, (cough!), Patriotic English/British blog but you, a, (cough!), patriotic Englander/Britisher, are here on a Scottish people’s blog and yelling insults and attempting to talk down to, or rather, at the Scots.

      BTW: I was a member of the SNP a long time before Nicola Sturgeon was born. I thus may well have helped to formulate the present beliefs of the present party. You see, sensibledave, if you were just a tiny bit as clever and well informed as you imagine yourself to be, you would know that the SNP leadership do not dictate the party policies.

      This is a very democratic process and it is led from the bottom up – unlike any other party in the United Kingdom. Party Policy is made at Annual Conference and it is made by motions raised at local branch level, and if opposed or amended , it is debated and voted upon at branch level and passed on to Constituency Association level to again be debated and voted upon and then finally debated and voted upon at annual conference.

      The members, not Nicola Sturgeon, who has exactly the same number of votes as everyone else in the party), dictate party policy. Did you not see the party policy change that happened on live TV about UN membership?

      “I am absolutely certain of the facts I have laid out”

      Then you are obviously quite wrong. The truth is that the three nuclear powers of the USA, the UK and now Russia have all three been involved in almost continuous warfare since the end of WWII and all three have come under attacks from foreign states.

      The rest of what you claim is utter pish. The three states you claim are going to have nuclear weapons and will use them have all been under constant threat and bullying by those you claim are stable states but every one of your claims are utter rot for only the USA has ever used, (large), nuclear weapons in anger and all three you claim as stable states are not only warmongering as we speak but have been bullying other states since nuclear weapons were invented.

      Yet all three have suffered attacks with non-nuclear weapons and even by things not generally thought to be weapons.

      You do not have the intellect or wit to come to this blog and act like the typical (cough!), patriotic Little Englander by attempting to bully the people of Scotland.

      We will take our independence, sensibledave. Not in spite of your attitudes but because of them.

    391. sensibledave says:

      Proud Cybernat 2:37 pm

      You wrote: “How the wife, SensibleD?! [sniggers]

      … a lot prettier and cleaner than you Cybie – if that’s the level you want to operate.

    392. ian murray says:

      Sensible

      Can you give me a scenario in which a Trident launch would be justified ?

    393. Bob Mack says:

      @Cherry,

      A coup is not a new idea for the Tory Party. They have history.
      In 1911 the liberal government of the UK prepared an Irish Home Rule Bill. In response Sir Edward Carson a Tory MP gathered an army of 100,000 Ulster Volunteers to defend the North. He was supported by—– you guessed it . The Tory Party. In view of this the Home Rule Bill for Ireland was shelved.

      Sir Edward and the Tories had actually committed an Act of Treason but we’re never sanctioned.

      Makes it easier to understand the actions of Ruth Davidson today

    394. sensibledave says:

      Robert Peffers 4.28

      Are you having an off day Robert? You are writing even more nonsense than normal. If you can’t see the difference between my explanations about nuclear war and your latest comment then there is nothing more that I can say. There is none so blind as those that will not see.

      Just so I am clear, your argument is that every leader of every government of every one of the 28 NATO countries (including Ms Sturgeon if/when Scotland is Independent), plus Russia and China and India and Pakistan and Israel …. is an idiot ….. – but you are the sane one, yes?

    395. Breeks says:

      We’re not going to address Islamic fundamentalist terrorism unless or until we change our attitudes.

      Donald Trump has just signed a $110 billion Arms deal with Saudi Arabia, who is currently bombing the shit out of Yemen. Think about that. One Arms deal between one single Country and another is a bigger deal than every single living person on the planet chipping $14:60 each into the kitty.

      The proxy wars in Syria and Yemen are actually power struggles for influence between the Sunni Muslims in Saudi Arabia backed by American money, and the Shi’ite Muslims in Iran backed by Russian money, but for the life of me, I cannot shake the idea that this Shi’ite / Sunni antipathy and civil war is a contrived scenario where Muslim battles Muslim while the US and Israeli’s look on an occasionally wink at one another. It smacks of divide and conquer imperialism where one troublesome Islamic enemy destroys the other as the wealthy manipulators look on… Don’t worry people, it looks ugly down there, but it’s only ISIS butchering Al Qaeda or Oceania smashing Al-Nusra…

      The US and Israel of course have a literal Nuclear option to keep the Iranians in check, and indeed the Russians and Chinese in a similar kind of check too, but if or when the Iranian Shi’ites ever get nuclear weapons, thats the day everything changes and money takes a back seat.

      In Britain and Europe, we get the spin off actions of radicalised young men who believe ploughing vehicles into crowds or planting bombs in gathered groups of innocents is our deserved penance for the culture and lives of Arab men, women and children destroyed by Western bombing. That is not meant to excuse the obscenity of their crimes, which remain just that, crimes, but how are we meant to judge a mind so desperate, disturbed, and manipulated by hatred and religion that it believes such atrocities will actually do anything to further their cause?

      Sympathy for the Refugees? Yes, of course. No question, but perhaps there maybe should be a little compassion for the radicalised, (but assuredly none for those doing the radicalisation).

      They probably have a legitimate right to be angry, enraged, even unhinged by anger and a blind desire for vengeance, but the integrity of any real injustice is quickly forfeited when revenge is sought through terrorism or bloodshed. That direction however opens another ugly can of worms, specifically why the Arabs have such little faith in Western morals and justice.

      We, that is us, the colonial Europeans, created the whole Middle East debacle; we cynically manipulated the Arabs to shed their blood for our interests, then gave in return a catalogue of broken promises and ignominious betrayals like the Sykes Picot agreement, and even Israel itself. We don’t offer them any justice for doing that. Instead we ignore UN resolutions which don’t suit us, we send robot aircraft into their skies to kill them without trial, while we bait and taunt them with untouchable war criminals like Blair and Bush, killers of their kin, women and children, their innocents, and yet these remain people whom we don’t even judge or condemn.

      If we ever want to see an end to this Middle Easten bloodbath and hate factory, then it won’t just be Islam faced with the awkward questions and humbling admissions, but the colonial “powers” will have their collars felt too.

      Sadly, when you listen to the blood and soil drum beat of British Nationalism, and the myopic rhetoric of “little thinkers” like Theresa May and Trump, peace in the Middle East is still a long way off, and yet more young Arab radicals will be raised and twisted to see our kids as legitimate targets. We will bomb their homelands til we are dizzy looking for more targets, and it still won’t solve a damned thing.

    396. Proud Cybernat says:

      “a lot prettier and cleaner than you Cybie”

      I wasn’t talking about your wife’s physical appearance or her cleanliness, Sensible. But you know that.

      [sniggers – again]

      PS – Have a look inside the bottom drawer of the bedside table (your wife’s side). Those aren’t yours. (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

    397. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave says:
      24 May, 2017 at 4:36 pm
      Proud Cybernat 2:37 pm

      You wrote: “How the wife, SensibleD?! [sniggers]

      … a lot prettier and cleaner than you Cybie – if that’s the level you want to operate.

      England wants to keep WMD’s but doesnt want them anywhere near England sensibledave.

      But if one nuke does go off on the Clyde, accident, terrorist attacks etc, it will destroy much of Scotland, certainly Scotland’s main population centres. It could kill over 2.5 million Scots with radiation poison alone, outside the blast zones, which encompass Glasgow.

      We used to say better red than dead sensible. Now its better keep our nukes in Scotland, for safety’s sake, England’s safety.

    398. Bob Mack says:

      @Proud Cybernat,

      No. You are better than that.

    399. sensibledave says:

      ian murray 4:44 pm

      You wrote “Can you give me a scenario in which a Trident launch would be justified ?”

      Yep.

      If Russia launched missiles at the UK, for one.

      Now, please, before you ask your next question, have a go guessing what my answer will be.

    400. Robbo says:

      Liz g says:
      24 May, 2017 at 4:12 pm
      Bob Mack @ 3.54

      Last time i believe actual troops were used in a kind of clamp down to –well whatever you want to call it was

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_George_Square

      Kinda getting close to centenary of that-yikes!

    401. Hamish100 says:

      Senile Dave.

      How many countries don’t have and don’t need nuclear weapons?

      Take your time to think about it.
      Right now you should understand what a waste of money. However if England wants them they can keep them on the Thames. We can use the Clyde for conventional forces .

    402. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Bob Mack

      I have my own way of dealing with paid shills. If they want to come on to WoS and disrupt things then they had better be prepared for me to fuck with their heads with a few home truths.

      It’s a war and I don’t play nice.

    403. Cherry says:

      Bob thanks for that I’ve never read about that. History repeating itself? I’m so far past scunnered by this load of BS. My only pleasant thought is that the world is watching this shower, that makes it bearable.
      My husband got me an early surprise…a proper flagpole canny wait to stick it up!!

    404. Robert Peffers says:

      @sensibledave says: 24 May, 2017 at 2:14 pm:

      “(including Ms Sturgeon who wants Scotland to be a member of NATO I believe, although she may have flip-flopped depending upon the day of the week) – appear to have a slightly different view to you.”

      So there you go, sensibledave, you got it wrong again. I’ve told you several times that the SNP are a real democratic party. Neither Nicola Sturgeon, or any other elected to office individual, has any more influence upon party policy than any other card carrying SNP member.

      Party policy is made from the membership upwards and every member only gets one vote. The process is instigated by any member who can get a seconder for a proposal or to amend an existing policy at branch level.

      It may be unopposed, or not have any amendments raised, and go forward to Constituency Association level or be opposed and/or amended and debated and voted upon at any stage. They end up at Annual Conference and the delegates will debate, amend and vote upon them at Conference.

      Why do you persist in coming to Wings and repeatedly spout the same errors aver and over again? Yet you ask why you are called a fool? Only a fool does the same thing over and over again, always gets it wrong, but then does it again expecting a different result.

      BTW: Your idiocy on the NATO membership only serves to highlight your stupidity and ignorance ubout NATO.

      “NATO consists of 28 member states. Article Five of the treaty states that if an armed attack occurs against one of the member states, it should be considered an attack against all members, and other members shall assist the attacked member, with armed forces if necessary.

      Of the 28 member countries. All members have militaries, except for Iceland which does not have a typical army but has a coast guard and a small unit of civilian specialists for NATO operations. Only three of the 28 NATO’s members are nuclear weapons states: France, the United Kingdom, and the United States. To date no NATO action has ever involved nuclear weapons and as is shown by Iceland a member need not even have a military”

      As usual you spout utter pish. BTW: if you fondly imagine I’m uncouth in my use of the term. “pish”, then I advise you read a little Shakespeare and note your National Bards specific use of that term.

    405. Tony Little says:

      @Sensible

      “Yep. If Russia launched missiles at the UK, for one.”

      So It’s NOT a deterrent then?

    406. Robert Peffers says:

      @sensibledave says: 24 May, 2017 at 4:51 pm:

      “Are you having an off day Robert? You are writing even more nonsense than normal. If you can’t see the difference between my explanations about nuclear war and your latest comment then there is nothing more that I can say.”

      I’m not going to go all over it again, sensibledave, but you idea of what NATO is all about is just your usual utter pish. I have already posted on this thread the NATO set-up. Quoted Section 5 in full and pointed out that a member country does not even need to have a military. There are 28 members and only 3 are nuclear powers. There have been many NATO interventions on behalf of member States, (as per section 5), but not one of them has ever included a nuclear attack and there is no requirement for any member state to either support or not support nuclear weapons.

      The treaty is simply that all member states must agree to support any member state that is attacked. Nothing more and nothing less.

    407. heedtracker says:

      Yep.

      If Russia launched missiles at the UK, for one.

      Now, please, before you ask your next question, have a go guessing what my answer will be.

      England’s going to war with Russia now sensibledave? Its like being shackled to a maniac, this farce union.

    408. Bob Mack says:

      @Tony Little,

      Kerching. You win by a knockout.

    409. heedtracker says:

      @Sensible

      “Yep. If Russia launched missiles at the UK, for one.”

      Why does Canada not have Trident WMD’s too, like the tory arsewipes red and blue in London, sensibledave, Canada’s right on the Russian land coastal border, so you’d think they’d at least need £200+bn Trident subs too, like England does.

    410. geeo says:

      This dumb idea of putting troops on the street has handed the terrorists a wet dream scenario or 2.

      1. Wait until troops presence is withdrawn then strike again as soon as the last troops leave.

      Result, permanent troop presence or risk attack EVERY time the troops are withdrawn.

      2. Attack a target WITH troops present.

      Result, terrorist propaganda coup…”your army cannot stop us”.

      Both are lose lose, politically.
      ……..
      The reality is, this move by Theresa May is about personal electoral opportunism, with no consideration for long term effects.

    411. AlbertaScot says:

      Congrats to Phil Gormley and Nik for telling Mayhem to stick her squaddies-on-the-streets stunt where the sun don’t shine.

      Oh, and someone tell that slumbering idiot Jezza to wake up and smell the coffee.

      You’re getting out-hustled here, son.

      Remember it’s YOU!!! who has 10,000 more coppers in your manifesto.

      Not the Tories.

      The Wasp may have said no campaigning. But as soon as she pulled the army out of the hat last night, it was clearly game on.

    412. ian murray says:

      Sensible

      Not sure about what my next question was supposed to be, but it is this….
      For Russia to attack the UK
      Can you give me a scenario where we have pissed off the Russians to the point that they actually launch against us?

    413. Robbo says:

      I see auld Donald and his entourage visited the godfather today. I’m sure he was told on no uncertain times will there be a wall built on the Mexican border my son. Let’s JUST CUT THE CRAP NOO. Let’s see if he defies the big man! lol

    414. Robbo says:

      meant “no uncertain terms”

    415. Lenny Hartley says:

      Breaks @ 4.52 very well said

    416. K1 says:

      Useful idiot entertains Wings readers with a masterclass on being a Useful idiot.

    417. Socrates MacSporran says:

      ROBERT PEFFERS

      Auld Boab,

      I am a fan. I have long enjoyed your contributions to this forum, and, have learned a lot of Scottish History from you. You are one of our most-valuable assets.

      I am not as old as you, but, I am now in my eighth decade and referred to as: “Auld Yin” by, in particular my grandson and grand-daughter who think they are the coolest dude/chick in town, my younger girl-friend and the younger sports journalists with whom I share press boxes.

      These people know: I care, I become cantankerous at times, and have little time for tubes of any sort.

      Therefore, I try to avoid wastes of oxygen such as sensible dave.

      May I respectfully suggest, you do likewise. We need your input to counter more-serious points than any made by that troll.

    418. AlbertaScot says:

      OK, so here’s the drill.

      Andy Burnham is the freshly baked mayor of MCR, right?

      And he’s LABOUR!!!

      I know, I know, he hates Jezza and I reckon the feeling is mutual.

      But now is the time for all good men to come to the aide of their party.

      So if anyone with half an apple for a brain is running this show here’s what these dufusses should do.

      Give Andy a call and ask for the low down about the state of play with the Greater Manchester Police.

      Particularly the status of the anti-terrorist unit these days following the cuts.

      If it was gutted, which I kinda suspect it has been, then take this sucker over to the nearest fillin’ station, put the air hose on it and blow it up sky high.

      Innocent teenage girls were assassinated because Mayhem and the Tories cut the cops.

      During a campaign it doesn’t get any better than that. Hung parliament with Big Angus on the brake handle here we come.

      Because the Labs have to win back the momentum or they’re going to be a dead skunk in the middle of the road.

    419. Orri says:

      If the UK were in based then hopefully the invaders would find someone high enough in the chain of command to issue stand down orders to any subs at sea.

      If not then after sufficient time had passed without contact the missiles would be launched as per orders at pre-selected targets plotted by our American allies.

      We ordinary people just better hope our betters give in to intimidation before the mass executions begin because if there’s no recall and that first strike does take place the reprisals will be swift and deadly.

      Alternatively we could put enough cash in to conventional forces that invasion would be at such a horrific cost there wouldn’t be a bluff to call.

    420. Bob p says:

      Robert peffers,I agree with socrates,ignore the troll

    421. mike cassidy says:

      For Troops On The Street ponderers

      http://www.forces.net/news/troops-streets-history

    422. AlbertaScot says:

      So was Marshal Wade one of those troops-on-the-streets deployments?

      Just askin’?

    423. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers ….can I add my voice to the others.
      Will you please consider ignoring that guy…..it does spoil the conversations!

    424. HandandShrimp says:

      A bit of poll fun

      I think this one has yet to hit the Tory airwaves although if you click on English seats it certainly does have Tory votes.

      If this was the result on the 8th it would be quite odd.

      Goodly number of votes at over 77,000 though and I think Grit Digital are a neutral IT firm selling their skilzzz (or whatever it they say amongst the youth).

      https://ge2017.gritdigital.co.uk/#2017-opinion-poll

    425. North chiel says:

      Great post again from ” Breeks” at 0452 pm. The rise of ISIS can be directly linked
      to Afghanistan, Gulf wars,( the overthrow of Saddam) the overthrow of Gaddafi , and more recently
      the Syrian bombings ( and attempt to overthrow Assad) . How many thousands of innocent children have been killed over the years in these
      tragic countries. Yes , Bush & Blair have a lot to answer for with their misguided farcical policy of ” regime change” and
      attempting to impose ” western style democracies “in these countries (and more recently Cameron and the Libyan bombings.). The more recent atrocities in Europe targeting young people enjoying themselves is so very tragic . Western interference in other cultures has a lot to answer for ..However, I do not expect the ” UK media” to ” discuss this” any time soon.

    426. John de Soulis says:

      Post 1

      Operation Temperer. Troops on the street to protect us, at least that’s what we are being told. Though as far as I can tell in engerland it’s royalty and politicians that are being protected.

      Obviously, these are the most important things down there.

      From ITV news,

      “Here’s everything you need to know about Operation Temperer and what it involves.

      What is Operation Temperer?

      It is a plan devised by the government to help protect civilians at times of high terror threat by bringing in members of the army to help protect key sites at risk of attack such as transport hubs, stadiums and key landmarks.

      The plan was first revealed in 2015. Home Secretary Amber Rudd said it would allow for up to 3,800 members of the armed forces to be deployed throughout the UK to support police.

      Ms Rudd stressed that the move was an “absolutely temporary” response to the immediate threat.

      All troops on the streets will be working under the command of police officers.”

      Link to full article:

      http://archive.is/80aR7

    427. John de Soulis says:

      Post 2

      No prizes for guessing what they are going to be protecting up here. You got it missiles and defence establishments.
      You couldn’t make this shit up!

      From an Evening Times Nicola Sturgeon article.

      “Ms Sturgeon said the operation has two phases and only the first phase has been put in place.

      It involved military personnel taking over policing of key Ministry of Defence and civil nuclear sites of which there are 12 in Scotland.”

      Link to full article:

      http://archive.is/hYGzt#selection-2155.49-2155.67

    428. Graeme says:

      Cherry says:
      24 May, 2017 at 5:10 pm

      My husband got me an early surprise…a proper flagpole canny wait to stick it up!!

      Erm

      nah a better no 🙂

      Graeme

    429. Dr Jim says:

      If you met this guy in the street, withing minutes youl’d have him arrested for harassment rip him a new one or batter him senseless and he knows it and that’s why he hangs around here like a virus, not in the hope of a discussion or even a friendly disagreement, this guy wants the full on Britnat wear you down Imperialist I’m right Arsehole compliance or he won’t stop
      It’s in the Britnat nature from long periods of Imperial dominance and he knows no better other than disruption and if you’re open to giving him your time he’ll take it like a vampire takes blood and then revel in the fact you opened your veins for him
      He doesn’t want your conversation he doesn’t want your co-operation he wants your discourse stopped

      He’s a coward who hangs around where no one wants him because he can hide behind his keyboard and play Britnat pornography and if he has or had a family they’re either totally embarrassed by him or left him because he’s an idiot

      Me, I’ll see you all after polling day, have a good one and good luck to us all

      Except the Arsehole

    430. K1 says:

      Thanks mike, so it’s highly unusual and maist likely exactly because the England/Wales police forces have had majors cuts to personnel…also May’s at it wi this. This is political…imo.

    431. Legerwood says:

      There is a certain irony, and major embarrasment, for the opposition parties in Scotland that Police Scotland can put enough armed police on the streets without the need for the army.

      Remember their hysterical reaction in 2013-14 when armed police undergoing training turned up at a routine incident because they were in the vicinity? It went on for weeks. Their criticism of Police Scotland has been continuous since its formation and that incident was grist to their mill.

      Silent now aren’t they?

    432. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      Why does Canada not have Trident WMD’s too

      Och, BritNats never do comparisons like that. In their defective wee minds they still see their UKOK Greater England empire as second only to their colonial cousins in the USofA.

      Their vastly overinflated sense of superiority still makes all other nations seem lesser in some perverse way.

    433. Rock says:

      Last time, the unionists had anticipated a win and had not planned any black arts operations.

      This time, they are well prepared for pre-emptive strikes before a referendum can happen.

      They will use any means possible to prevent a referendum before Brexit has been completed.

      If they had intelligence of an attack in Scotland, they would rather let it happen than prevent it, in my view.

      Some posters write off Saint Theresa as a fool and idiot from the comfort of their armchairs but do not realise that the only purpose for a snap election was to prevent a Scottish independence referendum before Brexit has been completed.

      Hypocrite and scum or fool and idiot?

      The former, in my view.

      ronnie anderson,

      “Question is Mrs May what value do you put in the said People NOT VERY MUCH when YOU & YOUR GOVERNMENT WONT PAY THEM A DECENT WAGE.

      FUCKINGG HYPOCRITE”

      K1,

      “Too right Ronnie, shower of fucking Tory scum.”

    434. Thepnr says:

      If they had intelligence of an attack in Scotland, they would rather let it happen than prevent it, in my view.

      Confirmation, as if any were needed that you are a complete fool.

    435. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT. I’ve just been unfortunate to witness a racially motivated hate crime. In the supermarket. An off-duty member of staff (out of uniform), was given a mouthful of racially motivated verbal abuse from an obviously socially and educationally deprived ‘white’ Scot.

      The neoliberal approach to government and political economy adopted by Westminster and Whitehall in the mid-1970s, offers little hope for a tolerant and inclusive future for Scotland. Let’s step up to the mark and secure our liberty to choose another direction of travel from intrinsically fascistic, Tory England. It is our moral duty to take care of the disadvantaged in the present, both locally and globally, whilst being responsive to the needs of future generations. You won’t find that in the Yoonion.

    436. ChewinTheFat says:

      O/T

      Sorry, don’t know if anyone else here has mentioned this already as haven’t read the latest comments yet, will do after this post though.

      Was reading STV news app earlier today and I quote word for word:

      “As part of Operation Temperer, chief constables across the UK have the ability to request support from the armed forces, if required. This option is open to Police Scotland and the situation is being reviewed, however, the service currently has sufficient resources deployed and available at present.”

      In other words, in Scotland, we actually have enough police officers to boost security, unlike England, who sadly have sacked 20,000 police officers under Tory rule and due to this actually have to deploy soldiers on their streets.

      Sad times indeed.

    437. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Bob Mack on 24 May, 2017 at 3:54 pm.
      You typed,

      “The only time I remember troops on the street in my lifetime was when there was what appeared to be a coupe during the tenure of Harold Wilson when for some reason troops in armoured cars turned up at all installations of travel and broadcasting.”

      The last time I remember “troops on the street” was in the early years of the 21st Century, at the time of the firemen’s strike. I believe it was the last time the “Green Goddesses” were deployed, under the control of the army.

      We had a couple of fire alarms at Ninewells Hospital at that time and the guy in charge in each case was an army officer, in uniform.

    438. Robert Peffers says:

      @Socrates MacSporran says:

      “May I respectfully suggest, you do likewise. We need your input to counter more-serious points than any made by that troll”

      Have no fear, Socrates, I’m making use of the sensible one. He really is a total numptie and he gives open goals right, left and centre.

      However, much of my replies are imparting knowledge but not aimed at sensibledave. Such as he will never learn. He keeps making the same kind of errors over and over again.

      So consider this. Today I’ve got across how the SNP are run from the bottom up and not like all other parties that are top down and thus akin to dictatorships.

      I’ve also nailed down the old wrong story about NATO membership preached by the UK/USA.

      28 member states and only 3 of them have nukes and that is actually only two because the USA owns those the UK lays claim to but the section 5 thing is the killer. The basis of NATO is the section 5 pledge that if any of the 28 member states are attacked they will all support them against the aggressor. No NATO action has ever involved nuclear weapons. Not only that but Iceland doesn’t have any conventional military but has taken part in NATO actions.

      The English, (cough!), Patriot seems not to know that. It’s just we evil nationalist that know things like that and I’m just the guy to inform those evil Cybernats who don’t know it how to answer the English/British Patriots.

      So that’s why I do selectively interact with sensibledave but only sometimes if there is a point to make. Mind you he has been trying very hard to drag me into a slanging match but he hasn’t a chance.

    439. The Dog Philosopher says:

      There was a band back in the 70s called The Groundhogs and they made an album called Thank Christ for The Bomb, quite a decent album if you like blues-infused heavy rock (see Cream, Free, Led Zep, Rory Gallagher). I was always intrigued by the title and the underlying anti-war concept of the album that went against the grain of the times (the rise of CND and anti-Vietnam war protests).

      The guy who wrote the song (Tony McPhee) had family who had served in WW1 and he was trying to reflect a point of view that at least the bomb had spared us the full horror of that first industrial-scale war, and had, arguably, put an end to the second one. I think McPhee knew what he was doing by adopting a kind of devil’s advocate position.

      There’s a cruel irony in the album’s title – that somehow we must thank ‘our God’ for granting us weapons of mass destruction. Or at least the scientists who revealed the power of nature that allows humans to construct even more inventive and devastating weapons. War and science (progress) make dubious bedfellows, from the longbow at Agincourt to the V2, which became the technological basis for NASA’s moonlandings.

      But WMDs haven’t prevented wars and conflicts, and to use them would threaten the existence of our species. The scientists who let the nuclear genie out of the bottle realised their mistake only too late. But such is the race towards ‘human enlightenment’.

      As for the one known as ‘Sensible Dave’ and others of his ilk, it has to be pointed out that the Scotland we imagine is one that greatly differs from the British model. We don’t see ourselves as a military, expansionist power, bossing and bullying the world to our liking. We accept that we are small and humble country but one that could become a fairer and safer place to live, one that seeks understanding and co-operation before conflict on the world stage. So please, please, pretty please, remove your missiles from our soil; soon?

    440. @Bob p says: 24 May, 2017 at 6:31 pm:

      “Robert peffers,I agree with socrates,ignore the troll.

      Please yersel, Bob p but it might just enlighten a few Wingers to note the answers I give the troll. My answers are more directed at Wingers and lurkers who may not know the real facts. What’s more the Troll is never going to drag me into a slanging match although I’ll give him an occasional poke wi a wee pointy stick now and then.

    441. Lochside says:

      Bob Mack @ 4.49 Re. the Ulster Volunteers of 1914. These ‘loyal’ lads rebelled against the democratic vote of Ireland, which was one country and part of the Uk at the time for limited devolved Home Rule.

      100,000 of them armed by German smuggled arms swore on holy bibles to fight the British Empire. The British officer corps based at the Curragh in Ireland point blank refused to move against these armed insurrectionists. A mutiny by any other name and one that allowed the eventual establishment of the faux ‘state’ of Northern Ireland, a sectarian blot on the face of the ugly phizog of British Imperialism…yet again.

      A template for the tories to attempt to carve off the Northern Isles or the Borders and Dumfries and Galloway from Scotland further down the line?

    442. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T.

      http://bit.ly/2kqHlNu Information on the Event will be updated this weekend . Meeting with Police is arranged for tomorrow .

      I will be at the Green at 9.30 am setting up the Wings Stall’s/ Stage ect, any groups wishing to put stalls up should contact AUOB FB/Twitter & I will add you’s to the list.

      Remember folks SHARE this EVENT to ALL YES PAGES & YOUR FRIENDS LIST’S.
      This will be the biggest Indy Rally of the year , lets make it one to remember.

    443. CameronB Brodie says:

      Is sensible misbehaving again? I don’t bother reading his guff but I’d be happy to rip him a new one.

      Sensible.
      Bigotry. What’s that all about? Obscuring reality with subjective pish, that what that is. Back to basics. Dave. Do you support the principle of universal human rights? Dave.

      Do you know anything about vulnerability and hopelessness? Dave. Would it surprise you to know that there is a high suicide risk among individuals who have sustained comparable traumatic brain damage to myself? Would it also surprise you to know that there is a high suicide risk among those who suffer PTSD, so I am doubly blessed, so to speak.

      Now, I can handle ignorant, racist cunts like you, with one hand tide behind my back. The majority of Scots are not as fortunate as myself, in terms of there theoretical understanding of how stuff works.

      Any idea what symbolic violence does to the vulnerable? Dave. The links between vulnerability and social exclusion? Post-modern critical social theory? Dave.

    444. Phronesis says:

      The Long War ‘…it is imperative that we grasp the nature of the beast that threatens us with its endless wars perpetrated in the name of the highest levels of freedom. In his latest masterpiece, Professor Michel Chossudovsky shows how the various conflicts we are witnessing today in Ukraine, Syria, Iraq and Palestine are in fact inter-linked and inter-locked through a single-minded agenda in pursuit of global hegemony helmed by the United States and buttressed by its allies in the West and in other regions of the world. This Machiavellian, indeed, diabolical agenda not only centres around wars of conquest and subjugation but also seeks to dismember and destroy sovereign states. Russia, China and Iran are the primary targets of this drive for dominance and control. The underlying economic motives behind this drive are camouflaged in the guise of a civilized West fighting “barbaric Islamic terrorism” which as Chossudovsky exposes is sometimes sponsored and sustained by intelligent networks in the West’

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-globalization-of-war-americas-long-war-against-humanity-michel-chossudovsky/5427720

      ‘Following the tragic events in Manchester, public opinion should be informed as to who is behind the Islamic State.
      The question that should be asked: who are the State sponsors of Al Qaeda and the ISIS?
      In order to understand why the Islamic State has grown and flourished so quickly, one has to take a look at the organization’s American-backed roots. The 2003 American invasion and occupation of Iraq created the pre-conditions for radical Sunni groups, like ISIS, to take root. America, rather unwisely, destroyed Saddam Hussein’s secular state machinery and replaced it with a predominantly Shiite administration. The U.S. occupation caused vast unemployment in Sunni areas, by rejecting socialism and closing down factories in the naive hope that the magical hand of the free market would create jobs. Under the new U.S.-backed Shiite regime, working class Sunni’s lost hundreds of thousands of jobs. Unlike the white Afrikaners in South Africa, who were allowed to keep their wealth after regime change, upper class Sunni’s were systematically dispossessed of their assets and lost their political influence. Rather than promoting religious integration and unity, American policy in Iraq exacerbated sectarian divisions and created a fertile breading ground for Sunni discontent, from which Al Qaeda in Iraq took root.

      The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) used to have a different name: Al Qaeda in Iraq. After 2010 the group rebranded and refocused its efforts on Syria.
      There are essentially three wars being waged in Syria: one between the government and the rebels, another between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and yet another between America and Russia. It is this third, neo-Cold War battle that made U.S. foreign policy makers decide to take the risk of arming Islamist rebels in Syria, because Syrian President, Bashar al-Assad, is a key Russian ally. Rather embarrassingly, many of these Syrian rebels have now turned out to be ISIS thugs, who are openly brandishing American-made M16 Assault rifles’

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881

      ‘A Government spokesperson said its approach to arms export control was “sufficiently tough”.
      “The Government takes its arms export control responsibilities very seriously and operates one of the most robust regimes in the world. We rigorously examine every brokering application on a pre-licensing case-by-case basis against the Consolidated EU and National Arms Export Licensing Criteria.
      “Export licensing requires us to consider how the equipment will be used by the end-user and risks around human rights abuses are a key part of our assessment. We consider this approach to be sufficiently tough but where there is evidence of a need for further action we have the powers to do so under existing legislation”

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-is-now-the-second-biggest-arms-dealer-in-the-world-a7225351.html

      ‘…The international arms trade is also considered to be one of the three most corrupt businesses in the world, according to Transparency International, the leading global organisation monitoring corruption’

      http://www.ipsnews.net/2008/10/politics-unchecked-arms-trade-fuelling-conflict-poverty/

      ‘…After all this time and all these warnings, the same problems keep re-occurring. This should be an urgent wake-up call for the US, and all countries supplying arms to Iraq, to urgently shore up checks and controls. Sending millions of dollars’ worth of arms into a black hole and hoping for the best is not a viable counter-terrorism strategy; it is just reckless…

      Any state selling arms to Iraq must show that there are strict measures in place to make sure the weapons will not be used to violate rights. Without these safeguards, no transfer should take place.”

      Amnesty International is urging the USA to comply with the Leahy Law, which prohibits the supply of most types of US military aid and training to foreign security, military and police units credibly alleged to have committed “gross human rights violations”

      https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/05/us-military-admits-failures-to-monitor-over-1-billion-worth-of-arms-transfers/

      The ‘dark money’ and profiteering from the global arms trade seems to be consistent with Bastiat’s parable of the broken window- destruction, and the money spent to recover from destruction, is not actually a net benefit to society.

    445. galamcennalath says:

      You know what they say about an Ill Wind .

      https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/24/world/europe/manchester-bombing-shifts-political-narrative-as-uk-election-looms.html

      “If the Manchester bombing was a horrible tragedy for Britain, it was a political boon, however unwanted, for Prime Minister Theresa May.

      Monday’s terrorist attack has changed the narrative of Britain’s election, just two weeks away — and in her favor.”

    446. Robert Peffers says:

      I’ll just leave this little bit of Scotland’s history for anyone who might be interested:-

      https://radicalglasgowblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/workers-know-your-history-glasgows-1848.html

    447. Sensibledave says:

      Tony Little 5.15

      Er Tony, … why haven’t the Russians launched any missiles at us? Clue …. we have a deterrent!

      I can just about understand why people may hold differing views on this subject, but I never seen so many people that do not seem to even comprehend the differing arguments.

      Surely you can at least understand the argument (without agreeing with it) that threat of mutually assured distruction is the reason why a country would not press the button to fire their missiles i.e. If they do – then they will kill their own country too! That is the whole point and it is why they won’t do it – unless they are Nut cases like North Korea or religious zealots like Iran – which is another problem altogether.

      … and btw, of course most countries in NATO don’t have nuclear weapons – because they are protected by the NATO treaty of those that do.

      Finally, can someone please clarify the SNPs policy on Scotland being a member of NATO post Indy? I somehow seem to be in trouble for suggesting that the policy is pro NATO!

    448. heedtracker says:

      Sensibledave says:
      24 May, 2017 at 10:25 pm
      Tony Little 5.15

      Er Tony, … why haven’t the Russians launched any missiles at us? Clue …. we have a deterrent!

      So why have the Russians not nuked countries Canada sensibledave?

      You do rather epitomise the little Britisher centric world view of the world sensible.

    449. Graeme says:

      Sensibledave says:
      24 May, 2017 at 10:25 pm

      Tony Little 5.15

      Er Tony, … why haven’t the Russians launched any missiles at us? Clue …. we have a deterrent!

      So presumably to take your argument to it’s logical conclusion Russia has launched missiles at every country in the world that doesn’t have a nuclear deterrent

      Graeme

    450. heedtracker says:

      Finally, can someone please clarify the SNPs policy on Scotland being a member of NATO post Indy? I somehow seem to be in trouble for suggesting that the policy is pro NATO!

      It wont be any of rUK concern sensibledave. That is all rather the whole point of Scotland becoming a nation state EU member, AGAIN.

      Planet toryboy in England will have absolutely no say in my country’s affairs and that’s a good thing.

      You wont even be able to push Scotland around in Europe, now that you’ve flounced out if it all. Hope Empire 2.0 works out for you sensible.

    451. Bob Mack says:

      Trident—–8 test firings. One successful launch.

      Deterrant ? Lol.

    452. Capella says:

      @ Graeme 7:20 – well done Graeme – showing admirable restraint. 🙂
      This is a family website after all.
      @ Cherry – My husband stuck a Saltire flag on an existing flagpole for my birthday – which just happens to be St Andrews Day. Perfect.

      BTW – it’s not certain that these military shenanigans will benefit the Tories. Many voters are persuaded that selling bombs to Saudi Arabia to kill Yemeni children, and arming jihadis in Libya, Iraq and Syria has caused the revenge bombing of our own children. The blame lies squarely with the warmongers.

    453. Liz g says:

      Cameron B Brodie @ 9.19
      Et Tu Cameron.
      Seriously though Cameron,engaging with him means I am scrolling on by and as with Robert Peffers and Heedtracker I usually want to read what you have to say.
      He is so obvious now,and hasn’t added anything new for months,if ever.
      If I am trying to catch up and am speed reading the comments it’s a real pain to find out it’s him your answering.
      It’s like those TV shows Jeremy Kyle,X Factor same format every time.
      Now it might be because I don’t watch TV anymore but that’s WHY I don’t watch TV anymore LOL..
      Do what you want my friend…. ofcourse you must….but the next time I see you… I will moan….sooo you have to ask your self..do you want to risk that……. I am told I am really really good at it..X

    454. heedtracker says:

      Has England finally woken up to just how evil the tories really are?

      http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/woman-heckles-soldiers-as-they-stand-guard-outside-downing-street-6659192/

      ‘Theresa May was losing! She is going to lose. Please – use your vote wisely on June the 8th.

      ‘Get rid of Austerity! Get rid of the warmongers who want the war to continue! War is big business!
      ‘Use your vote wisely – for your future, for your children’s future, and get rid of this vile, Tory, police-cutting, weapons-selling…

    455. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Latest (May) Labour market statistics from the ONS:

      “Table 1: Summary of latest headline estimates for regions of the UK, seasonally adjusted, January to March 2017”

      UK unemployment 4.6%
      England unemployment 4.6%
      Scotland unemployment 4.4%

      https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/regionallabourmarket/may2017

      Apparently there are unionists think this means Scotland is underperforming compared to the rest of the UK.

      Also inward investment hits record high in Scotland – no effect on it of the”threat” of Indy Ref 2 – reported by Ian McConnell who does a good job on business news.

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/15302170.Inward_investment_hits_record_high_in_Scotland/

    456. Capella says:

      @ Liz g – totally agree – it’s such a nuisance to have to scroll through all that dross (I never read any of it) that I watched a movie instead. The Girl on the Train. Good but not quite as good as Night Train to Lisbon, which I watched last night on Youtube.

    457. Morgatron says:

      Unsensible Dave;
      The reason they have not attacked us is not down to simply mutually assured destruction . They know it would be futile as their nukes would fly up your arsehole , detonate and cause no damage at all. I think this is a more reasoned argument.

    458. Col says:

      They actually sounded disappointed at the BBC there that Scotland doesn’t need to have the army on our streets because we have enough police. Unlike England.

    459. Capella says:

      Manchester bomber’s father and brother arrested in Tripoli:
      https://on.rt.com/8cmc

      There’s obviously more to this tragedy, much more, than we have been told.

    460. Liz g says:

      Capella @ 10.52
      Thanks for the support,and the tips.
      It’s sometimes a wee bit like scrolling past daft posts
      on Wing’s, to try and find a good movie.
      Anyhoo!!!
      Can I take it that if I ever meet Robert and Heedtracker,and When I meet Cameron again that I have your permission to moan on your behalf?

    461. Robbo says:

      Col says:
      24 May, 2017 at 10:55 pm
      They actually sounded disappointed at the BBC there that Scotland doesn’t need to have the army on our streets because we have enough police. Unlike England.

      Yup. Was same on STV .It was the goading that was ridiculous.The top police guy answered the question half a dozen times when the reporter tried to come up with another attempt again and again ,it was annoying as fuck. It was as if they want troops on the street the media morons.

    462. Capella says:

      @ Liz g – moan away! I’m so averse to trolls that I normally won’t even use the T word. Complete and total ignoral is my policy.

      I love Robert Peffers’ posts and also Cameron’s posts but if there is any whiff of troll I scroll on by. And if the thread becomes clogged I just go away and do something more interesting.
      Normal service is eventually resumed.

    463. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sensibledave says:24 May, 2017 at 10:25 p

      “Er Tony, … why haven’t the Russians launched any missiles at us? Clue …. we have a deterrent!!

      Bloody hilarious!

      So, numptie, why have not the Russians launched missiles at every other non-nuclear state that DO NOT have deterrents?

      Logic isn’t your strong point is it Little Englander?

      Then why, when all the former USSR countries were telling Russia where to go was Russia not launching nuclear missiles at them as they neither had missiles nor were they members of NATO?

      “Surely you can at least understand the argument (without agreeing with it) that threat of mutually assured distruction is weapons – because they are protected by the NATO treaty of those that do.”

      Err! What about all those non-NATO former USSR states that were not in protected by NATO that Russia did not nuke?

      “Finally, can someone please clarify the SNPs policy on Scotland being a member of NATO post Indy? I somehow seem to be in trouble for suggesting that the policy is pro NATO!”

      No your not. You are being laughed at for not knowing that NATO does not in fact rely upon nukes and some NATO members state governments are officially against Nuclear weapons and some do not even have a military. Iceland for example has no army or Navy other than a few coast guard patrol boats.

      Why you keep getting involved in subject you are totally ignorant about is making you a laughing stock.

    464. Capella says:

      I should add that I very much appreciate this website where I can read first class articles, post what I think and link to other relevant articles. It’s unique in my experience, and I greatly value Stu’s work on behalf of Scottish independence.

      Other good websites exist. But their comments are often riddled with trolls which makes them unreadable. This is an exception.

    465. Thepnr says:

      @Capella

      So too is wee Ginger Dug.

    466. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 24 May, 2017 at 11:22 pm:

      “@ Liz g – moan away! I’m so averse to trolls that I normally won’t even use the T word. Complete and total ignoral is my policy.”

      Doesn’t it strike you as strange that there is presently more moans about me interacting with a troll than there is from me at the troll?

    467. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – absolutely – I also love WGD and the comments are usually excellent.
      I was really thinking of Craig Murray’s blog which has excellent articles but the comments soon descend to back-biting argy bargy which I wish he would banish. But he seems to be very tolerant to the point of allowing the comment thread to be ruined.

      James Kelly is also plagued by pernicious comments which destroy the thread.

      Wings is able to rise above that – usually!

    468. Capella says:

      @ Robert Peffers – Interact with trolls as much as you like. I won’t read any of it because I am bored by troll comments. But I very much enjoy your normal posts on Scottish history and your personal experience of life.

    469. CameronB Brodie says:

      Apologies if necessary Capella.

      Liz g, I’ll certainly be on my toes. I’m not sure if you picked up on the subtleties of my post though, which was thematically linked to topic and the broader debate. I wasn’t replying to Dave I booting his metaphorical in an informative manner. I thought so anyway.

      Can’t please them all, eh. 🙂

    470. defo says:

      Cherry “My husband got me an early surprise…a proper flagpole canny wait to stick it up!!!

      Good man !
      Surgery ?
      😉

    471. K1 says:

      It’s very interesting this side development regarding the intel sharing with the US counterparts. It seems the UK’s ‘special relationship’ is hitting the buffers on this, They’re aw ragin’ (Rudd, Burnham, now May) at the Americans releasing intel that they say potentially ‘compromises’ the live investigation. I’m trying to figure the angle out here, why are US intel agencies leaking this information to their own press in the US.

      What purpose does it serve? Who benefits from this and why after years of supposedly close and closed intel comms is this relationship so publicly under duress? Seems ‘off’, apparently strong and stable May is gonnae huv a wurd wi the Donald aboot this…like that will make an ounce of difference after the fact.

    472. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Capella on 24 May, 2017 at 10:52 pm.

      You typed,
      “The Girl on the Train. Good but not quite as good as Night Train to Lisbon, which I watched last night on Youtube.”

      Nah, this is the classic “Night Train” video…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrswMXVW4iY

    473. Capella says:

      @ K1 – they’re all amateurs.
      “Hey guys, we’ve got a name for the perp.”
      Does the current administration really look like a bunch of clued up pols? More like a game show “You’re fired” episode.
      I think art has overtaken life in the US. They are all living in a reality show. Which is actually surreal.
      Our govt will have to make the best of it being so much in hawk to Washington.
      Unless Corbyn wins in Westminster, of course.

    474. Liz g says:

      Cameron B Brodie @ 12.10
      I don’t think I would have picked up on anything in your post Cameron, cause I don’t read them,if they are directed at the usual disrupters.
      I never do.

      That’s what I am trying to say..
      But I won’t say it again..my very good friend…

      The point I am making is that when I scroll on by… I hate it when it’s you!!

    475. Stephen McKenzie says:

      Defo 12:11

      Surgery! That’s a bit permanent is it not?

      Mind you they can do wonders these days, I just asked for a small semi 10 years ago and I was put on a housing list..

    476. Capella says:

      @ Brian Doonthetoon – brilliant! I love the poem “The Night Mail” W H Auden. Here’s a clip of that on its own.
      This is the night mail crossing the border
      Bringing the cheque and the postal order:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmciuKsBOi0

      Nevertheless, I’m sure you would enjoy “Night Train to Lisbon”. Background is the Salazar dictatorship which was overthrown by the carnation revolution. Dictatorship is never far away.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKpJF-bAfeM

    477. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Sorry, understandable maybe, but today (as was) has been a miserable & uninspiring day btl on WoS (an honourable exception being nana‘s links).

      Made worse, IMO, by the MSM giving the bloody perps a handsome helping hand by amplifying all the understandable personal grief and uncertainty. Accompanied by the usual self-flagellation of some, when the truth is these death cultists would target us even if we were as pure as the driven snow, because their aim is to dominate all by brute force and terror, liberal secular states being reviled most of all.

      This atrocity, like all the others, is an attempt to use extreme violence to stir up hate and turn peaceful communities against each other. Create a situation where those who least deserve it are given a big boost and what we hold dearest, our liberty, is put under threat.

      This is divisiveness that is starkly real, and puts to shame the fake branding that has lately been deployed by those who should know better in order to try to stifle legitimate peaceful debate about our future.

      Take care, and here’s wishing you all a better day (on and off-line) tomorrow (the new day now)…

    478. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liz g
      Thank you, that means a lot. Just this once, go back and read the post. You might enjoy it. 😉

      My policy is to only converse when and in a manner that is advantageous. Trust me, I’m a vile sep. 🙂

    479. defo says:

      Stephen McKenzie says:

      “Mind you they can do wonders these days, I just asked for a small semi 10 years ago and I was put on a housing list..”

      MATRON ! (said à la Kenneth Williams)

    480. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry folks but I think I’ve just established what is going on. It’s been staring me in the face and I just didn’t spot it.

      The Chewbacca Defense is any legal or propaganda strategy that seeks to overwhelm its audience with nonsensical arguments, as a way of confusing the audience and drowning out legitimate opposing arguments. It also has, intentionally or unintentionally, the effect of confusing the opponent so that they will stop arguing with you. If they are too chicken to continue the argument, the point they are trying to argue must be equally flimsy, right? Right?

      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Chewbacca_Defense

    481. Cherry says:

      Graeme,Capella and Defo
      I don’t know whether to laugh or hide away in embarrassment. 😉 on re-reading the post wot I wrote I realise how easy it is to say something which can be twisted. Oo er nurse right enough!! Lol…it’s a very nice flagpole too!

    482. bjsalba says:

      @Legerwood at 7:40pm
      It was in August 2014 in Inverness. The Armed Response Team was sent out in response to reports of a drunk waving a knife around on the High Street. Thereafter the two semi-local rags ran articles screeching about “Routine Armed Patrols on the Streets of Inverness”. Typical Tory press peddling a pack of lies.

    483. Capella says:

      @ Cherry – don’t worry about it! We’ve all done it. It’s easy to write something which someone will pick up in a way you didn’t intend. And there’s no edit button!
      I believe that’s why emoticons were invented. 🙂
      Thing is – blog comments are ephemeral.

    484. Macart says:

      Timing perfect Nana. 🙂

    485. Nana says:

      Good morning Macart, here’s a few more links for elevenses!

      Received email from people’s assembly yesterday, the link below was included. I very much doubt the Bbc will allow the song to reach No1
      https://www.facebook.com/ThePeoplesAssembly/videos/1436696913064861/

      Blatant media bias between reporter & Sky News journalist just 30 minutes before Theresa May spoke outside Number 10
      https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/867444063557087233

      5yrs ago Police federation chief asked TM how she sleeps at night
      https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/867508272017932289

      https://theintercept.com/2017/05/24/reactions-to-manchester-bombing-show-how-anti-muslim-bigots-are-useful-idiots-for-isis/

    486. Sinky says:

      What are the Greens playing at in Edinburgh as local press reporting Labour in tie up with Lib Dems and Greens to stop SNP from taking control of City?

      Of course could be Labour playing silly Bs as usual.

      And Green arch Unionist Robin Harper backing Ian Murray.



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