stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


Nursing a grievance

Posted on May 23, 2017 by

(NB The media is understandably mostly occupied today with the horrific events in Manchester. But life goes on – music websites are still talking about music, football websites are still talking about football, videogames websites are still talking about videogames. Any rational observations about terrorism made here would be screamed down as making political capital from tragedy. So let’s get on with the day job.)

If you apply to go on a televised political debate and then submit a question to ask a national leader, it seems a reasonable deduction that you want that issue to be raised and discussed. If you also make it personal by describing your own circumstances, it seems logical that you’d want those circumstances to be widely publicised, and to be asked about them so you could say more and tell your story to the country.

So it’s a bit odd that Edinburgh nurse Claire Austin has suddenly gone off the radar.

Posts on her Facebook page have vanished, such as the one where she called Nicola Sturgeon “wee Jimmy Krankie”. There are now only two posts visible for the whole of 2017, and the account is locked so that only her friends can comment.

Her Instagram account, on which social media users and the press found a number of pictures which raised questions about whether she really was struggling financially, has also been locked down.

And her Twitter feed is all but silent, save for a tweet claiming that an article in the Scottish Sun about her yesterday was in some unspecified way untruthful, despite it consisting mainly of her own tweets and pictures.

Last night’s Reporting Scotland devoted a hefty four-and-a-half minutes to Ms Austin’s comments and the wider issue of nurse’s pay and foodbank use, but we didn’t get to hear from Ms Austin herself.

Just ten seconds were taken up with reporter Shelley Jofre paraphrasing what she’d apparently said to her – that Claire Austin had been referred to foodbanks twice in a five-year period, at unspecified times and in “very specific circumstances” which oddly then aren’t actually specified for viewers.

That in itself sounds like the issue was temporary and personal to Ms Austin rather than being an intrinsic problem of all nurses being inadequately paid. The clip goes on to point out that the starting salary for Scottish nurses of £22,440 is £5,340 above what the Joseph Rowntree Foundation considers a liveable wage.

Yet the package also noted that the Royal College of Nursing in Scotland “can’t point to any specific cases of nurses using foodbanks”, and that the Trussell Trust – which runs by far the largest number in the UK, thought to be around half – “haven’t heard of any nurses using their foodbanks”.

We’re casting no doubt on Claire Austin’s story. We’re happy to believe that she may have used a foodbank a couple of times in the past due to personal circumstances that are none of our business. But her broader assertion that either she, or nurses in general, have to do so on a regular basis as a result of the policies of the Scottish Government doesn’t appear to be holding up very well under scrutiny.

Having originally missed the story because the debate was too late for their Monday editions, the Scottish press has leapt hungrily on it today, in particular a single tweet from SNP MP Joanna Cherry quoting a rumour that Austin might be the wife of a Tory councillor, which Cherry had swiftly retracted and apologised directly to her for:

Yet while most people protesting about things complain that they DON’T get a media platform to air their grievance, and despite having gone on two BBC politics shows in the space of a few days to make her point, and with a veritable army of sympathetic hacks beating on her door to give her a voice to bash “wee Jimmy Krankie” and the SNP with, Claire Austin suddenly seems strangely reluctant to talk about it.

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    559 to “Nursing a grievance”

    1. Phronesis says:

      The Long War ‘…it is imperative that we grasp the nature of the beast that threatens us with its endless wars perpetrated in the name of the highest levels of freedom. In his latest masterpiece, Professor Michel Chossudovsky shows how the various conflicts we are witnessing today in Ukraine, Syria, Iraq and Palestine are in fact inter-linked and inter-locked through a single-minded agenda in pursuit of global hegemony helmed by the United States and buttressed by its allies in the West and in other regions of the world. This Machiavellian, indeed, diabolical agenda not only centres around wars of conquest and subjugation but also seeks to dismember and destroy sovereign states. Russia, China and Iran are the primary targets of this drive for dominance and control. The underlying economic motives behind this drive are camouflaged in the guise of a civilized West fighting “barbaric Islamic terrorism” which as Chossudovsky exposes is sometimes sponsored and sustained by intelligent networks in the West.

      From globalresearch.org
      ‘the-globalization-of-war-americas-long-war-against-humanity-michel-chossudovsky’

      ‘Following the tragic events in Manchester, public opinion should be informed as to who is behind the Islamic State.
      The question that should be asked: who are the State sponsors of Al Qaeda and the ISIS?
      In order to understand why the Islamic State has grown and flourished so quickly, one has to take a look at the organization’s American-backed roots. The 2003 American invasion and occupation of Iraq created the pre-conditions for radical Sunni groups, like ISIS, to take root. America, rather unwisely, destroyed Saddam Hussein’s secular state machinery and replaced it with a predominantly Shiite administration. The U.S. occupation caused vast unemployment in Sunni areas, by rejecting socialism and closing down factories in the naive hope that the magical hand of the free market would create jobs. Under the new U.S.-backed Shiite regime, working class Sunni’s lost hundreds of thousands of jobs. Unlike the white Afrikaners in South Africa, who were allowed to keep their wealth after regime change, upper class Sunni’s were systematically dispossessed of their assets and lost their political influence. Rather than promoting religious integration and unity, American policy in Iraq exacerbated sectarian divisions and created a fertile breading ground for Sunni discontent, from which Al Qaeda in Iraq took root.

      The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) used to have a different name: Al Qaeda in Iraq. After 2010 the group rebranded and refocused its efforts on Syria.
      There are essentially three wars being waged in Syria: one between the government and the rebels, another between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and yet another between America and Russia. It is this third, neo-Cold War battle that made U.S. foreign policy makers decide to take the risk of arming Islamist rebels in Syria, because Syrian President, Bashar al-Assad, is a key Russian ally. Rather embarrassingly, many of these Syrian rebels have now turned out to be ISIS thugs, who are openly brandishing American-made M16 Assault rifles’

      From globalresearch.org
      ‘america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group’

      ‘Going by the latest leaked email, the State Department and US intelligence clearly had no doubt that Saudi Arabia and Qatar were funding Isis. But there has always been bizarre discontinuity between what the Obama administration knew about Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states and what they would say in public. Occasionally the truth would spill out, as when Vice-President Joe Biden told students at Harvard in October 2014 that Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the United Arab Emirates “were so determined to take down Assad and essentially have a proxy Sunni-Shia war. What did they do? They poured hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against Assad. Except that the people who were being supplied were al-Nusra and al-Qaeda and the extremist elements of jihadis coming from other parts of the world”. Biden poured scorn on the idea that there were Syrian “moderates” capable of fighting Isis and Assad at the same time’

      http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew-all-a7362071.html

      ‘A Government spokesperson said its approach to arms export control was “sufficiently tough”.
      “The Government takes its arms export control responsibilities very seriously and operates one of the most robust regimes in the world. We rigorously examine every brokering application on a pre-licensing case-by-case basis against the Consolidated EU and National Arms Export Licensing Criteria.
      “Export licensing requires us to consider how the equipment will be used by the end-user and risks around human rights abuses are a key part of our assessment. We consider this approach to be sufficiently tough but where there is evidence of a need for further action we have the powers to do so under existing legislation”

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-is-now-the-second-biggest-arms-dealer-in-the-world-a7225351.html

      ‘The international arms trade is also considered to be one of the three most corrupt businesses in the world, according to Transparency International, the leading global organisation monitoring corruption’

      http://www.ipsnews.net/2008/10/politics-unchecked-arms-trade-fuelling-conflict-poverty/

      ‘…After all this time and all these warnings, the same problems keep re-occurring. This should be an urgent wake-up call for the US, and all countries supplying arms to Iraq, to urgently shore up checks and controls. Sending millions of dollars’ worth of arms into a black hole and hoping for the best is not a viable counter-terrorism strategy; it is just reckless…
      Any state selling arms to Iraq must show that there are strict measures in place to make sure the weapons will not be used to violate rights. Without these safeguards, no transfer should take place.”
      Amnesty International is urging the USA to comply with the Leahy Law, which prohibits the supply of most types of US military aid and training to foreign security, military and police units credibly alleged to have committed “gross human rights violations”

      https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/05/us-military-admits-failures-to-monitor-over-1-billion-worth-of-arms-transfers/

      The ‘dark money’ that funds and profits from the global arms trade seems to be consistent with Bastiat’s parable of the broken window to illustrate why destruction, and the money spent to recover from destruction, is not actually a net benefit to society.

    2. Snode1965 says:

      Here in North Lanarkshire, our brand new Lab/Tory coalition Council have informed Unite of its intention to axe 198 classroom assistants.
      Did Kezia Dugdale not insist that they wouldn’t work with a Party if it meant cutting jobs?
      That didn’t last long…

    3. Nana says:

      The family of Eilidh MacLeod have paid tribute to the ‘vivacious’ 14-year-old.

      http://archive.is/llGCN

    4. Legerwood says:

      Story on Front page of the Herald today saying that LibDems are going into Coalition with the Tories to unseat the SNP group who currently lead the Council. BUT they are not going to do so until after the GE incase their action in joining with the Tories damage Jo Swinson’s chances of winning the seat in the GE!

    5. Calum McKay says:

      I wonder what this person’s colleagues make of her before and after her appearance?

    6. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 25 May, 2017 at 12:01 am:

      “Interact with trolls as much as you like. I won’t read any of it because I am bored by troll comments. “

      I think you may have missed the actual point I was making, Capella.

      The object of a Troll is to disrupt a thread and if the troll fails to disrupt the thread the troll has failed. If the troll gets only serious arguments that stick to the point then it is part of the thread. Good arguments stop the troll in their tracks and good information is also shared.

      That’s not what the troll had set out to do. However, if there is a rash of complaints about answering the troll then the troll has achieved what the troll set out to do. Disrupt the thread and if the troll consistently fails the troll goes elsewhere.

    7. sensibledave says:

      …. one of the most interesting things about Wings is that as soon as someone expresses a different point view to the received wisdom of SNP policy is, not only are that individual wrong, but they are also a Troll and they are also an idiot.

      The ridiculousness if some of comments above like “so why haven’t the Russians bombed Canada” reveals just how little comprehension people have of the whole western and Nato strategy.

      I understand that people may disagree with it, but to argue that it hasn’t worked is simply facile. There have been no nuclear stikes since the end of WWII. Fact. Now, it is possible that an alternative strategy may also have worked – but we will never know.

      In simple terms, the NATO strategy that says if anyone attacks one NATO country – then they have attacked all NATO countries –
      and that is the bedrock of the defense policy – and applies to the use of nuclear weapons.

      SNP policy is to be part of NATO. NATO has nuclear weapons. All NATO mebers benfit from the potential protection of the NATO treaty and NATO ember’s nuclear weapons. IMplicitly all NATO members are in favour of nuclear weapons and want their protection.

      IF the SNP doesnt want to be in NATO and doesn’t want to contribute financially and doesn’t want the protection offered by NATO’s stated strategy and policy on the nuclear weapons then it should bloody well say so and have it in its manifesto.

      This ridiculous situation where you ask me, the trolling little Englander, to justify SNP policy to Wings members is just a bit rich.

    8. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Is it just me? Or does anyone else feel Mother Theresa will be quite happy to see campaigning halted until at least Saturday?

      This will allow the media’s attention to further dissipate from her car-crash interview with Oor Andra of Monday, and of the subsequent fall-out over her manifesto u-turns.

      Maybe, by coming back with a bang on Saturday, she can divert attention away from any anti-Tory stories which the Sundays have had time to concoct.

      Manchester was certainly terrible, but, its timing has surely proved helpful to a PM who was starting to lose the plot badly.

      Harold McMillan famously said: “Events dear boy”. How ironic, and potentially disastrous for the UK and Scotland, if “events” conspired to keep this hopeless, out of her depth PM in power.

    9. Fred says:

      Thanks for that Nana & thanks for the “Night Mail” guys!

    10. Nana says:

      Just received the fifth libdem leaflets, this time in a brown envelope with a return address in London.

      I see folks in Shetland have had a fair number from liar Carmichael 26 in 5 days!! Desperation? I hope someone is keeping tabs on the election costs because this stinks.

      https://twitter.com/mchaggisboss/status/867477226471780352

    11. John Thomson says:

      Reading the National the Ask Angry seems like we may have this all wrong, nursey was right to challenge our FM. The problem he omits is that it is plain even for someone such as myself with no investigative qualities to come to the conclusion that the BBC is biased and there can be no doubt about this. Will still buy the National but have not been enjoying it as much, seems to have gone a wee bit dodgy of late.

    12. Petra says:

      STRONG AND STABLE GOVERNMENT?

      ‘THE CONSERVATIVES RECORD ON DEFENCE.’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWNY2WkF6es

    13. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave

      Problem is sensibledave, why do have so much of problem with Scotland as NATO member nation state and Scotland without nuke WMD’s?

      Most NATO member states have no nuclear weapons, let alone the most expensive ever, Trident.

      28 NATO members, 3 have nuke WMD’s.

      Its your vote UKOK collective stuff like,

      “SNP policy is to be part of NATO. NATO has nuclear weapons. All NATO mebers benfit from the potential protection of the NATO treaty and NATO ember’s nuclear weapons. IMplicitly all NATO members are in favour of nuclear weapons and want their protection.”

      that says a lot about what you’re up to on WoS btl sensible.

    14. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave says:
      25 May, 2017 at 9:01 am
      …. one of the most interesting things about Wings is that as soon as someone expresses a different point view to the received wisdom of SNP policy is, not only are that individual wrong, but they are also a Troll and they are also an idiot.

      Think of it more as a reaction to our tory media and relentlessly creepy BBC sensibledave.

      Like this lovely Scottish morn on BBC r4 Today, who did these creeps wheel out today, to throw more petrol on burning water sensible, Dr Paul Nuttall, who’s is just what England needs right now, as he explained over and over and over to posho beeb gimps, in their vote tory S&M gear, ball gags the lot, Britian is more divided society than ever before, integration has failed, aint happening, too many people are coming to this country much too quickly, vote UKIPer.

      Just when you think you cant be more repulsed by tory corruption of the BBC sensibledave…

    15. Proud Cybernat says:

      Oi Risible,

      “Members of the Scottish National Party have voted to ditch their 30-year policy of opposition to defence alliance Nato.

      Members debated the issue at their party conference in Perth.

      Angus Robertson MP put forward a resolution saying an independent Scotland should become a member of the pro-nuclear weapons organisation.

      That was opposed by several MSPs and rank and file members, but the new policy was voted through 426 to 332.”

      From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19993694

      How much clearer do you need it to be, Risible? SNP were anti-NATO until 2012. Party is now pro-NATO.

      Get over it.

    16. Proud Cybernat says:

      But Risible – and this is the bit you willfully will not get – it is NOT a requirement of any country to possess WMDs to be a part of the NATO alliance as many here have clearly shown you. Not Scotland nor even England. We could easily participate in the NATO alliance without WMDs and spend the money saved on more deserving and pressing projects – like lifting 100s of thousands of kids out of poverty; like paying for your elderly care, Risible; like putting 20,000 bobbies back on the beat.

      You get the idea.

    17. jockmcx says:

      personally i try to read everyone of Robert Peffers
      posts,and will continue to do so.

      And i just wanted to say that especially over the past 5
      or 6 weeks he’s been on great form.

      Muchos gracias Roberto.

    18. Snode1965 says:

      Having the protection of NATO and WMD didn’t help those kid in Manchester…did it Dave?

    19. Snode1965 says:

      Risible Dave…Spain removed American nukes from their soil whilst they were NATO members.

    20. Petra says:

      More on strong and stable. You couldn’t make it up!

      ”Theresa May wants (wanted) to cut the Police Force in Manchester from 8,000 to 4,000 by 2019.”

      ”Some Police have been issued with food vouchers due to cuts to pay.”

      ”The Tories are selling arms to every single evil leader and despot … to 22 of the 30 countries on the UK Government’s own Human Rights Watch list.”

      ‘Theresa May has cut the Police Army Border Force NHS and Firefighers.’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn8Jn3blcXY

    21. Socrates MacSporran says:

      sensibledave

      I tend to steer well clear of your shite, but, in this instance, as regards NATO membership by a future Independent Scotland – please try to understand.

      Scotland will play a full part in NATO. not least since our geographic position will bring with it the need to patrol a part of the North Atlantic through which potentially aggressive Russian ships may be assumed to have to sail.

      Scotland will probably NOT have nuclear weapons of its own, although, I dare say, we might be entitled to some as part of the “divorce settlement” from England. It is to be hoped, however, those Scots negotiating the “divorce” will tell the English where to shove their nukes.

      It is furthermore to be hoped, and this will surely happen, that the Scottish negotiators also tell England to remove their nukes from the Clyde PDQ and ASAP.

      The USA does not base its SSBN submarines anywhere New York, or Washington, Chicago or LA, its largest and most-important cities. I don’t see why the UK/England should have to base its nukes so-close to Glasgow.

    22. Alistair Donaldson says:

      Received SNP and tory literature for upcoming GE yesterday in the post. Not surprisingly, the tory leaflet contained 2 references to independence, whilst that for John McNally actually contained relevant information for voters. Interested to note that young Mr Callum Laidlaw standing for the tories in Falkirk appears to live in Edinburgh and is a recently elected tory councillor for the Portobello and Craigmillar ward.

      Must be tired of that job already, or perhaps can multi-task?

    23. sensibledave says:

      Robert Peffers 8:59 am
      @Capella says: 25 May, 2017 at 12:01 am:

      You wrote “The object of a Troll is to disrupt a thread … ”

      By “Disrupt the thread”, did you mean that I offered an alternative view to the endless “me too” comments (most of which were also at odds with SNP policy?).

    24. sensibledave says:

      socrates MacSporran 10:30 am

      So, to paraphrase your total response.

      !. An Independent Scotland would be a member of NATO
      2. It would sign up to the treaty and the aims
      3. It would guarantee to protect other NATO members and receive the protection of other NATO members
      4. It would implicitly agree to the keeping of nuclear weapons by NATO members
      5. It would receive the protection of the nuclear weapons of other NATO members.

      … That is SNP’s policy yes?

      If you have a problem with that …. go and shout at Ms Sturgeon … not me.

    25. heedtracker says:

      4. It would implicitly agree to the keeping of nuclear weapons by NATO members

      Why are you using “implicit” agreement or “IMplicitly all NATO members are in favour of nuclear weapons and want their protection.” and so on sensibledave?

      Its clear why you’re bullsitting on here by using “implicit” but the point is much more basic.

      England is using its Scottish region as its WMD nuke dump. And England is using Scotland like this because its very stupid to have WMD’s like Trident anywhere near England’s main population centres, London etc.

      It cant be any simpler sensibledave even for an idiot tory like you.

      England wants to keep its less than 2% of the world’s nuke stock pile, fine. Base them in England.

      Or even better, find one of the other 25 non nuclear bomb NATO members to let you use their territory as a WND base sensibledave.

    26. gus1940 says:

      I am both horrified and disgusted by the evil horrendous massacre of young innocents in Manchester and will be as tactful and tasteful as possible with the following comments.

      In 2001 it was a widely held opinion that the tragic events of 9/11 were like ‘All the Bush administration’s Christmases in one’ as regards their future foreign policies and actions.

      Speculation has started as to what effect this week’s tragedy will have on public opinion regarding the forthcoming General Election.

      It has been stated that such events tend to direct public opinion positively in the direction of the status quo – i.e. the party currently in power.

      However, as more and more information comes out regarding the perpetrator’s background and history and the fact that he had been reported to the authorities as a potential danger on several occasion over several years opinion seems to be moving towards negativity as far as the current government is concerned.

      We are also being reminded of the massive cuts to police numbers over the last few years and under whose reign at The Home Office they took place.

      What the effects of this tragedy, if any, will be on the GE result will I suppose depend on how our wonderful media spin it.

    27. Capella says:

      @ Robert Peffers – I take your point Robert. I just differ in that I believe the best way of dealing with the problem is complete and total ignoral. So that’s is normally what I do and I’m rarely tempted to go back to the subject like I’m doing now! 🙂

    28. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 25 May, 2017 at 11:14 am:

      “I take your point Robert. I just differ in that I believe the best way of dealing with the problem is complete and total ignoral.”

      Which then means that all wingers would be totally wasting their time posting comments to already converted indy supporters in a nice wee exclusive club for members only with a total ban on non-indy views. Not for me – I’m only interested in furthering the cause of an independent Scotland and I cannot do that while posting comments to already converted indy supporters.

      We need opposing views in order to stimulate debate. I refuse to emulate the type of numpties that sit behind Dugdale – all nodding like those toy noddy German Shepard dogs in car rear windows who sit there banging on their desktop only to be rivalled by those sitting behind tRuthless who do the same when she shouts, (Ruth rarely speaks).

      You cannot learn anything by all agreeing with each other.

    29. heedtracker says:

      Capella says:
      25 May, 2017 at 11:14 am
      @ Robert Peffers – I take your point Robert.

      If people want to talk about issues like nuclear missiles based in Scotland, why not?

      If you go to the USA and travel around, almost every civic building in every city have bomb shelters and fall out centres. This is certainly the case in every building built in the early 50’s and through the cold war.

      Yet in Scotland, there are none. If there are any at all, they will be a secret and only for UK gov and royals.

      Why have the UK gov that believes Trident nukes are necessary and wants to base them in Scotland, NOT built any kind of nuclear war bomb shelters anywhere, not just in the Glasgow blast zone surrounding Faslane?

      If a Trident nuke does go off on the Clyde, why do none of us know what to do, other than try to escape the blast and fallout or die?

      Why is UK gov never asked?

      Beeb gimp pro nuke propaganda. No mention of possible detonation in Faslane, what to do, in the event. Risks of accidental nuclear bomb detonation in its Faslane base are far higher than UK gov launching Trident nuke strikes on anyone, killing millions of people. And ofcourse, why UK gov does not base Trident anywhere near it.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4438392.stm

      Trident missile factfile

    30. Capella says:

      Well Robert I’m disagreeing with you now about how to deal with nuisance callers – which is basically what these are.
      I have a block facility on my phone as I wouldn’t dream of trying to reason with them. They don’t phone me up for a discussion about the merits of double glazing, Microsoft Operating systems or Nigerian banking facilities.
      They are paid to distract me and get something out of me, time or money.
      Here I am spending time. But that’s because I value your (and heedtracker’s) input and don’t want to offend. I don’t expect to convert you. 🙂

    31. smithie says:

      Capella says: @ 2:05pm I agree tactically put.

    32. heedtracker says:

      Capella you’re not offending me! I’m unoffendable:D

      Mass loss of life in Scotland aside, look at a little bit of what our imperial masters consider worth risking, for their less than 2% £200+bn nuke weapon stockpile. Although James Lovelock does describe nuclear accidents like Chernobyl, as kind of planetary inoculation against human environmental destruction.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpXLTcQ6aE

    33. smithie says:

      This thread is a long one so i feel it it ok to go o/t. Did Dave at 10:46 not sum it up?

    34. sensibledave says:

      Heedy

      Bluster and obfuscate all you like Heedy.

      I say again ….… That is SNP’s policy yes?

      If you have a problem with that …. go and shout at Ms Sturgeon … not me.

    35. Capella says:

      @ heedtracker – well I can agree that Scotland is a stunningly beautiful country. Much of the landscape is destroyed by burning for grouse moors. The Holy Loch on the west coast and coast around Dounreay and Fife are polluted by nuclear waste. Gruinard is poisoned by anthrax etc etc.

      Gruinard Island X-Base Anthrax Trials 1942-43

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mykjxkwwe0

      Independence is the only way of saving what’s left IMO.

    36. smithie says:

      A while back i attended a meeting of our local SNP when the subject of Ineos importing shale gas came up and how awful it was and i commented that it was a private company and that was up to them. I got asked if that was being hypocritical? and i answered yes, but that was not what the bigger pic was about. Yes we wingers may be in a bubble but we see the end product. I think there are some things we really can’t explain/defend and all Dave did was expose that, so you’re choice, babble or ignore… i go with the latter… but still he has a point

    37. sensibledave says:

      Proud Cybernat 9:49 am

      You wrote “How much clearer do you need it to be, Risible? SNP were anti-NATO until 2012. Party is now pro-NATO. Get over it.”

      At Last, Cybie turns out to be me most unlikely ally.

      One more step for you now Cybie. Could you please respond to the loonies above that have spent the day attacking ,me for trying to put the multi-lateralist argument – people like Soctates, Heedy, Peffers, etc.

      Tell them what the SNP policy is and tell them to go and shout at Ms Sturgeon how big an idiot she is to lead a party with a pro-nuclear policy.

      Thanks Cybie, you have made my day!

    38. heedtracker says:

      sensibledave says:
      25 May, 2017 at 2:50 pm
      Heedy

      Bluster and obfuscate all you like Heedy.

      I say again ….… That is SNP’s policy yes?

      If you have a problem with that …. go and shout at Ms Sturgeon … not me.”

      Sensible what are you on? and can I have some. You do NOT have to buy nukes to be a NATO member sensible.

      Repeat that over and over sensible.

      SNP policy is no different from any other non nuke NATO member. All your sneaky creepy word choices like “implicit,” like how all the 25 NATO members are “implicit” nuke lovers like England, is just nonsense.

      Even in most NATO member states there is all kinds of NO nukes politics going on. Germany’s even got a no nuke power generation plan. There may even in be one in England sensibledave, even in England.

      What will be interesting, will be watching the English go nuts at Trident, soon to be berthed somewhere far nicer and important than Scotland, in England.

      Maybe the Welsh will have it. But then that puts the English Midlands right in the blast radiation fallout zone, like how Edinburgh and Scotland “central belt” is at the moment.

      Because why wouldnt you, who wants WMD’s stored in your own country, when you have a perfect location, in a region that you think you own, just far enough away?

    39. smithie says:

      Dave , what do you want lol. We here are , shall we say fairly up for independence so what are you looking for? why do you persist?

    40. sensibledave says:

      Smithie 3:32 pm

      You wrote “Dave , what do you want lol. We here are , shall we say fairly up for independence so what are you looking for? why do you persist?”

      The SNP seeks to have MP representatives at Westminster. That is where laws are made that affect me. The SNP wants to make those laws or try to affect them.

      There is nothing wrong with that. That is democracy.

      I seek to to try to influence parties that want to influence laws that affect me.

      Surely, there is nothing wrong with that. That is democracy.

      It appears that the SNP and its supporters really want to affect laws that affect me – but don’t want to hear from anyone that might have a view on what those laws might be.

    41. sensibledave says:

      Heedy

      You wrote “Sensible what are you on? and can I have some. You do NOT have to buy nukes to be a NATO member sensible.

      Repeat that over and over sensible.”

      I agree Heedy, you do not have to buy nukes to be a member of NATO.

      But …. you would have to be the biggest hypocritical, double speaking numptie to be a member of NATO, receive the protection under the NATO Treaty, including it’s nuclear deterrent policy – whilst criticising, belittling, decrying and hating – the very countries that are providing you that very protection under the NATO Treaty – wouldn’t you Heedy.

      You and Cybie need to get together and sort your story out and then get back to me. Is the SNP pro, or anti, nuclear Heedy?

    42. sensibledave says:

      Heedy

      Oh, and by the way, RAF High Wycombe Air Command is about 15 minutes in one direction and RAF Benson is about 20 minutes in the other. In the event of a nuclear strike against the UK then I am guessing those two establishments (with my home between them) would be two of the first targets.

      … so spare me the faux outrage that I will be somehow sat in my garden watching the roses grow in South Oxfordshire whilst Scotland is incinerated routine Heedy.

      Hopefully, no one will nuke us because they know what they will get. That’s how it works Heedy. I know you struggle with it, but that’s it in a nutshell.

    43. Mark Fletcher says:

      Troll are animals. They will howl.

      If you feed them, they will come back for more. They are greedy.

      You will soon find that you are spending all your time feeding them.

      Do not feed the trolls.

    44. heedtracker says:

      Hopefully, no one will nuke us because they know what they will get. That’s how it works Heedy. I know you struggle with it, but that’s it in a nutshell.”

      That’s my point though sensible. Everywhere in Europe and the US is a potential nuke target, for Russia presumably. We just have to accept this fact of life.

      So sensible once again, what is unacceptable, is that ofcourse England wants nukes like Trident, but England is smart enough to not base them anywhere near England.

      There is a far higher likelihood of Trident nuke accident in its Argyll base, than WW3 sensibledave.

      Ultimately, they only real case the English have for using their Scotland region as a WMD dump, is that 55% of Scots said OK to this, 18 Sep 2014. They agreed that on issues like WMD’s, Scotland is the best place to base them.

      Will this change though sensible? We can only hope.

    45. Sandy says:

      Non-sensibledave, Don’t know so much about France, including their national debt & their standing with regard to nuclear weapons, but my understanding that everything & all re these NATO weapons is 99.99% controlled by the good old USA.
      Further to the laws that affect you, there would appear to be a sensible solution. Both Scotland & England conform to International Laws. There it ends UK wise. Scotland has its own laws, 100% England has its own, 100%.
      When in Rome, do what the Romans do.

    46. Robbo says:

      sensibledave says:
      25 May, 2017 at 4:45 pm
      Heedy

      Oh, and by the way, RAF High Wycombe Air Command is about 15 minutes in one direction and RAF Benson is about 20 minutes in the other. In the event of a nuclear strike against the UK then I am guessing those two establishments (with my home between them) would be two of the first targets.

      … so spare me the faux outrage that I will be somehow sat in my garden watching the roses grow in South Oxfordshire whilst Scotland is incinerated routine Heedy.

      Hopefully, no one will nuke us because they know what they will get. That’s how it works Heedy. I know you struggle with it, but that’s it in a nutshell.

      Trust me you’ve nothing to worry about. Just dive under your school desk and all will be fine.You have 4 mins to do it-all will be well .

    47. heedtracker says:

      Trust me you’ve nothing to worry about. Just dive under your school desk and all will be fine.You have 4 mins to do it-all will be well .”

      Tactical nuclear airburst over the UK’s strategic targets, major cities, military installations etc will probably not come out of the blue, unannounced. They could but even sensibledave sitting in his garden will be aware of an approaching nuclear holocaust. And it would a similar scenario across Europe too.

      I dont know, say Putin actually invades Poland perhaps, it would take a few weeks to get everyone set for nuclear war and then we would at least have to prepare ourselves for end. Look at how UK gov, BBC etc got us gung ho for the US/UK land invasion in 2003. Old folks say this is what the Cuba crisis was like. They really thought the end was nigh, they could see it coming.

      But the big difference with Faslane and English nukes in Argyll is?

      Say ISIS terrorist suicide bombers get in to the base tonight and blow it up, detonate just one warhead. Scots wont know anything about it until we see the mushroom cloud and the nuclear blast hits Glasgow.

      If we are lucky the westerly prevailing winds will not be prevailing and some of the fallout will be blown over Ireland and the Atlantic. If not so lucky, at least half of Scotland becomes a radiation dead zone, for hundreds of years, like Chernobyl.

      That’s why Trident’s in Argyll and nowhere near sensibledave in his Oxfordshire garden this evening. He’s just another tory twerp but he’s not that stupid. Who knows, think of the property price jumps, as millions of Scots refugees head south.

    48. yesindyref2 says:

      @ensibledave: “Oh, and by the way, RAF High Wycombe Air Command is about 15 minutes in one direction and RAF Benson

      High Wycombe is admin support, and Benson is a front line support helicopter base, neither of them stragetigically or even tactically important in a nuclear event scenario, so you can rest easy tending your dahlias.

    49. yesindyref2 says:

      Pretty daft by the way giving locational data over ‘tinternet considering some of us know England quite well for instance High Wycombe is Bucks, so to be in South Oxfordshire and triangulated to Benson gives quite a small area. I guess security is not your thing.

    50. Sensibledave says:

      Summary

      So, I argued in favour of the SNP’s pro nuclear policy whilst being attacked by those that oppose it. Who are the tollls?

    51. Hamish100 says:

      Summary 2 senior Dave is a wee troll and no very good on defence or geography

    52. heedtracker says:

      Sensibledave says:
      26 May, 2017 at 7:52 am
      Summary

      So, I argued in favour of the SNP’s pro nuclear policy whilst being attacked by those that oppose it. Who are the tollls?”

      Just take Trident back to England sensible. It’ll kick off another Greenham Common protest and that will be the end of the farce, because English people are not that keen on living next to English WMD’s.

      You’re a different country now sensibledave. Stand on your own two feet.

    53. Sensibledave says:

      Heedy –

      You are going senile Heedy.

      The Scottish electorate (the only people that have ever had a vote on Scottish Independence) voted to remain part of the UK.

      Your opposition are Scots not English – but you project your ridiculous arguments and complaints at everyone else – other than those that made the bloody decision!

      You spend too much time here where you have convinced yourself that you are being oppressed by nasty English folk. Wake up Heedy!

    54. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Your opposition are Scots not English… You spend too much time here where you have convinced yourself that you are being oppressed by nasty English folk…”

      Stop presenting utter falsehoods.

      No one here EVER says that Scotland is “…being oppressed by nasty English folk…” as many of us here have relatives who are English people living in England (and elsewhere) and who are decent, honest folks and many of whom also have many of the same resentments Scotland has with the REAL enemy in this country – the Colonial Westminster Establishment and its lapdog media; a media, incidentally, that is entirely controlled outwith Scotland.

      So don’t give us your lying crap.

    55. Sensibledave says:

      … bit ruffled today Cybie!

      Did you sort out Heedy and the other numpties that were complaining to me about SNP nuclear policy?

    56. heedtracker says:

      Sensibledave says:
      26 May, 2017 at 11:08 am
      Heedy –

      You are going senile Heedy.

      Yes. But I’m sure I also said yesterday that your only case for using Scotland as a WMD base/dump region, is because 55% Scottish electorate agreed to it, 18 Sept 2014.

      That’s why frightened and concerned English tories like you, can keep posting on sites like WoS, “us” Brits, that UK collective sensibledave, used mainly when you want something from your Scotland region, like oil and gas.

      “Us” Brits can use our Scotland region our WMD base because WMD’s keep us safe and “we” are even safer, if “we” base them as far away from “us” as humanly possible. If there is a nuke warhead explosion, at least “us” Brits will be fine.

      Trident 2 is on the way and thanks to Brexit and Scottish independence, the English are clearly clinging on to “our” nukes all the harder, and all because England is still relevant!

      You win sensibledave. You better hope Empire 2 works out.

    57. heedtracker says:

      You spend too much time here where you have convinced yourself that you are being oppressed by nasty English folk. Wake up Heedy!

      It is oppressive sensible, but its just life in the UK for Scots like me.

      2014, Project Fear raged vote NO at us out of the BBC mainly, begging, pleading, threatening…then The Vow devo-max federal UK popped up, 55% said ok.

      Since then, the Vow meant virtually nothing, all the assorted big hitter yoons that promised it, like Brown and Darling, have legged it. Almost all of it was voted out in Westminster, Lab and tory. PAYE was “given” and ofcourse its now a big devolved stick to try and beat the crap out of SNP Scots gov.

      Ofcourse, Vote NO or lose your EU citizenship. Gone.

      No matter how hard Scots like me dont vote tory, you’re all still in charge of Scotland.

      No matter what Scots tv you watch, radio you listen to, paper you read, vote tory, vote Ruth Davidson, they rage, lie, bullshit, even at the really poor, with the most to lose from Ruth D near any power.

      And ofcourse, we have to listen smug nasty tory twerps like you, calling all our EU neighbours hypocrites because they refuse to buy WMD’s like Trident, I could go on sensibledave but yes, it is oppressive.



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